Hey fellas my front set up consist of Studio 60's V3 and a Monitor CC-390 V5. I was thinking about selling the CC-390 and putting that towards a CC-590. I figure this will provide a better "match" to the mains. But the fact that the 590 has less drivers than the 390 kind of makes me double think the while thing. What do you audiophile experts suggest??? Thanks (again) guys!!

Here ya go:

Posted by:THX1720
Grab the CC-590. I'd take better quality drivers and timbre matching over extra drivers anyday!


Posted by:Dbuudo07
Studio series is a big improvement on the monitor series. Not saying that monitor series is bad, just that the studios are that much better. Timbre matching is much more important than extra drivers. You won't have any problems with soundstage, just the efficiency. The cc390 is 7db above the cc590 in sensitivity, so you'll need 4x the power to achieve the same SPLs. But the pay off is higher sound quality. You won't be disappointed.

Maybe you don't understand what clipping means? It basically comes from the amp not delivering enough power to the speakers. A channel doesn't "clip", the amp is simply unable to deliver enough power.

The point is, you're not going to get any more power from two channels in a single-transformer amp than you would out of one, if you're already maxing it out (with very few if any exceptions). The single transformer can only do what it can do, and trying to magically make that one transformer send out more power by simply connecting two channels won't work. It's still one transformer, and it's still got the same power limits.

In a mono-block amp, that's totally different, since each channel has it's own transformer and if one is maxed, a second one can literally double the power. That being said, most mono-block amps provide more than enough power on each channel to not have this issue anyway.

Sorry.

Yeah, and since a tweeter may only require a couple watts to reach full output and a woofer may require more than a hundred watts to reproduce peaks, the amplifier channel driving the woofer may clip the peaks while the amplifier channel driving the tweeter will probably not.

Lets not muddy the Paradigm owners thread please. Pretty please.

Here ya go:

Posted by:THX1720
Grab the CC-590. I'd take better quality drivers and timbre matching over extra drivers anyday!


Posted by:Dbuudo07
Studio series is a big improvement on the monitor series. Not saying that monitor series is bad, just that the studios are that much better. Timbre matching is much more important than extra drivers. You won't have any problems with soundstage, just the efficiency. The cc390 is 7db above the cc590 in sensitivity, so you'll need 4x the power to achieve the same SPLs. But the pay off is higher sound quality. You won't be disappointed.


Thanks for the info!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vcrpro3
First time Paradigm owner, bought a used 5.1 set consisting of:
Pr. Titan v2
Pr. Atom v2
CC-170
PS-1000
Just bought a Elite VSX-94TXH receiver. What extra Paradigm speakers should i add to change this into a 7.1 set?

2 more atoms ------

What if ,staying with the same question, what models could be as used as new front L/R's and move the above speakers back, eg. the titans become surrounds, with this question, i will probably have to get a new center as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vcrpro3
First time Paradigm owner, bought a used 5.1 set consisting of:
Pr. Titan v2
Pr. Atom v2
CC-170
PS-1000
Just bought a Elite VSX-94TXH receiver. What extra Paradigm speakers should i add to change this into a 7.1 set?

2 more atoms ------

What if ,staying with the same question, what models could be as used as new front L/R's and move the above speakers back, eg. the titans become surrounds, with this question, i will probably have to get a new center as well.

Many are very happy with Monitor 11 fronts and CC-290/CC-390.

I'm no expert, but recently went through the same process.

option1) 7 atoms
option2) what ginovino said
option3 if you wanted to step it up) Studio 20's or 40's for fronts, cc-590, atoms or mini monitors for surrounds.

In no particular order:

Paradigm Monitor series such as the Mini Monitors or Titans (V5) for the front & Mini's or Atoms (V5) for the rear and a CC290-390 v5 for the center with your Denon would be a great match and economical. Your Velodyne sub is a bit long in the tooth and technology wise. I would go with a AV123 MFW-15, which matches outstandingly with the Paradigms noted. Avoid Paradigm subs as they can't even approach the MFW-15 for $700. Be sure to use quality speaker wire such as Kimber 4TC or Anticables (http://www.anticables.com/).

For the sub, I would recommend AQ Sub 3 powered cable, there is nothing else on the market that even approaches it.

My comments are not personal bias's but 28 years of retail experience.

Should you desire floor standers, then go with monitor 9's or 11's instead.


Thanks for you input guys. Do you think I would greatly benefit from getting the studio line over the monitor line? Would studio 20's be big enough for that large room? Would it be a problem to use monitor line for surround speakers, and studio line for my mains?

Be sure to use quality speaker wire such as Kimber 4TC or Anticables (http://www.anticables.com/).

For the sub, I would recommend AQ Sub 3 powered cable, there is nothing else on the market that even approaches it.

My comments are not personal bias's but 28 years of retail experience.

Wow. 28 years of selling FUD, apparently (specifically regarding cabling). Wires of the same material and gauge perform identically. No overpriced BS necessary. I thought we got over the cabling debate on this thread.

To jsharp: go get some 12 gauge bulk speaker wire and put the extra money into something that actually improves the sound instead of only dealer wallets. Something like more/better Paradigm speakers. Speaking of, yes the Studios are quite a bit better than the monitors, and are worth it. Surrounds depend upon which you prefer (directs or bi/dipoles), and if directs, how much room you have between the wall and listening position. If there's not much room, then you may want to use monitor surrounds - others have had great success. But if you can put 20s or even 40s as surrounds (again, if you like directs for that), then that would be more ideal.

Thanks Tim!

I have been recently hearing the same things as you about speaker wire, and cables in general. Unfortunately, monster has already taken plenty of my hard-earned money over the years.

My seats are not too far from the wall, but the location of my speakers are about 10' behind the seats. If I set them right behind me, there is the problem of the stairwell preventing my from putting a speaker on my left.

Any suggestions on how to alleviate the problem of the stairwell?

Thanks Tim!

I have been recently hearing the same things as you about speaker wire, and cables in general. Unfortunately, monster has already taken plenty of my hard-earned money over the years.

My seats are not too far from the wall, but the location of my speakers are about 10' behind the seats. If I set them right behind me, there is the problem of the stairwell preventing my from putting a speaker on my left.

Any suggestions on how to alleviate the problem of the stairwell?

You could try either dipoles/bipoles, BUT they are really designed to be used when the seating is against the back wall, they might work for you though.

Hey all,

Due to some financial hardship (yay economy!), I'm going to be putting up my "like new" Studio 20s v4 on Audiogon, along with my CC-590 that is less than a month old. (Black Ash, PERFECT condition on all, Original boxes, etc)

If anyone in here is looking for these, PM me and I'll let you know what I'm looking for. Fairly priced.

To keep on topic, I LOVE this speakers, Sound great, look great. I auditioned quite a few, and these came out on top.

I am in sales and sales are WAY down. Hopefully I'll see some of these again, thanks guys!

Hey all,

Due to some financial hardship (yay economy!), I'm going to be putting up my "like new" Studio 20s v4 on Audiogon, along with my CC-590 that is less than a month old. (Black Ash, PERFECT condition on all, Original boxes, etc)

If anyone in here is looking for these, PM me and I'll let you know what I'm looking for. Fairly priced.

To keep on topic, I LOVE this speakers, Sound great, look great. I auditioned quite a few, and these came out on top.

I am in sales and sales are WAY down. Hopefully I'll see some of these again, thanks guys!

How about you just ship them to me for free, I will use them till you dont need money again, then you can pay me to ship them back to you. I think its a win win situation.














For me. :D

My seats are not too far from the wall, but the location of my speakers are about 10' behind the seats. If I set them right behind me, there is the problem of the stairwell preventing my from putting a speaker on my left.

Any suggestions on how to alleviate the problem of the stairwell?
I'm not following how your room is laid out. Are you referring to side or rear surrounds? Directs or dipoles? Are you going for 5.1 or 7.1?

Many are very happy with Monitor 11 fronts and CC-290/CC-390.

I'm certainly happy with my 11/290 combo!

Enough bass from the 11's that I can afford to hold off on a sub for the moment :)

Yeah, and since a tweeter may only require a couple watts to reach full output and a woofer may require more than a hundred watts to reproduce peaks, the amplifier channel driving the woofer may clip the peaks while the amplifier channel driving the tweeter will probably not.

Lets not muddy the Paradigm owners thread please. Pretty please.

Yes, that's what clipping is.

And whether you drive that from one channel or two, your woofer will still clip. The amp, and single transformer, can't put out enough power.

The point is still the same - You don't gain anything through bi-amping.

Hey all,

Due to some financial hardship (yay economy!), I'm going to be putting up my "like new" Studio 20s v4 on Audiogon, along with my CC-590 that is less than a month old. (Black Ash, PERFECT condition on all, Original boxes, etc)

If anyone in here is looking for these, PM me and I'll let you know what I'm looking for. Fairly priced.

To keep on topic, I LOVE this speakers, Sound great, look great. I auditioned quite a few, and these came out on top.

I am in sales and sales are WAY down. Hopefully I'll see some of these again, thanks guys!


PM sent!!!

Am I crazy......

I really like the look of true on wall speakers and I am looking to upgrade my V3 Titans.

Would the 330's work at all with my current 290 center???

Strictly for movies through a Pio 1018.

From 7's to 330's......what will I think of next.

Would a system consisting of Studio 100's v.4 or v.5, CC690 v.4 or v.5, and matching dual pairs of side surrounds (in-wall, on-wall, or ADP surround), and back surrounds (in-wall or on-wall) sufficiently fill out a room of approx. these dimensions?:

16 feet wide x 22 feet deep x 9 feet high

Movies and music. Bass augmented with 1 or 2 SVS Ultra 13 subs.

Or would that be pushing a point for distortion free, clean sound at dedicated theater room volumes?

I have Studio 100's and a CC690, but not in a room nearly as big as that, so I wouldn't be a good judge.

A friend of mine is quite curious. He likes to crank movies like Transformers and ID4.

Or would the Signature line be the best bet, yet at far more money?

Would a system consisting of Studio 100's v.4 or v.5, CC690 v.4 or v.5, and matching dual pairs of side surrounds (in-wall, on-wall, or ADP surround), and back surrounds (in-wall or on-wall) sufficiently fill out a room of approx. these dimensions?:

16 feet wide x 22 feet deep x 9 feet high

Movies and music. Bass augmented with 1 or 2 SVS Ultra 13 subs.

Or would that be pushing a point for distortion free, clean sound at dedicated theater room volumes?

I have Studio 100's and a CC690, but not in a room nearly as big as that, so I wouldn't be a good judge.

A friend of mine is quite curious. He likes to crank movies like Transformers and ID4.

Or would the Signature line be the best bet, yet at far more money?

The speaker selection seems ok. Wouldn't the question be more of "how decent is the amplifier"? I'd imagine you'd want at least 100w/channel for amps and at least 140w/channel if it's a receiver (and decent output into the 4 ohm range).

Dan Hitchman,
I'm running that setup (pretty much identically...except my room is 17' wide), just at 5.1.... sounds pretty damn nice!!! I may go to 6.1 (difficult to do 7.1 in my room), once I get a new amp and can free up some on the receiver.

I wouldn't worry about the Studio 100's belting it out for ya in that tiny room you got there..... ;) My room is more then double that size with 20ft ceilings, and most people can't tolerate the levels I play mine at.... You'll be fine....

I'm just about to ap the ante and get a new amp from Wyred4Sound with 3x500 and 4x250 to replace my Rotel RMB-1095, the Rotel has been a great reliable amp, but I want to run IcePower, I'm so happy with my D-Sonic that I couldn't pass up the deal I was getting, plus it won't get warm in my console, I don't have to run the cooling fans like I do with the Rotel - gets warm when I'm crankin full blast... :)

Anyone interested in the Rotel - its 2 yrs old, silver and works perfectly. Pm me..

The speaker selection seems ok. Wouldn't the question be more of "how decent is the amplifier"? I'd imagine you'd want at least 100w/channel for amps and at least 140w/channel if it's a receiver (and decent output into the 4 ohm range).

So, how about the Model 7700 from Outlaw Audio (200 watts x 7 @ 8 ohms and 300 watts/channel @ 4 ohms), or would amps in the 200-250 watts/channel from Emotiva be better quality-wise and/or sonically?

I'm all ears! ;)

So, how about the Model 7700 from Outlaw Audio (200 watts x 7 @ 8 ohms and 300 watts/channel @ 4 ohms), or would amps in the 200-250 watts/channel from Emotiva be better quality-wise and/or sonically?

I'm all ears! ;)

The specs on that Outlaw seems like it should be fine for the speakers you mentioned. Probably the next best thing after the Outlaw would be 7 Emotiva monoblock amps but that's overkill for most people.

Looking to upgrade my cc-390 to a cc-590, anyone interested in selling theirs?? Must be black ash.

Please PM me.

Thanks!!

You could try either dipoles/bipoles, BUT they are really designed to be used when the seating is against the back wall, they might work for you though.

Wrong. They do not work when you're seated against that back wall. You need to be in the "null" for the effect to work with multipole speakers.

Direct radiators are what you NEED to use when your seating position is against the back wall.

I've been upgrading my HT lately. I recently added Denon 1909 AVR, Panas. BD55 player, Paradigm Servo 15" sub (plus two KLH 10" subs I already had).

Next will be new front L/R and center speakers which I am looking for ideas on. I finally retired my Klipsch Cornwall II's as they've always overpowered the center. I like Klipsch but would probably lean towards used Paradigm F/L, Center. My in wall mounted surrounds have 8" drivers (M&S Systems WG150W) , so I'm thinking my fronts (and center??) should have 8"drivers as well.

Searching older speaker threads, short discussions I've read, seemed to say that at a given price point, quality bookshelf speakers achieve better audio (when sub(s) are used) than floor standing speakers.

I am interested in input on:
1) The 8" driver idea for fronts
2) Centers with 6 1/2" drivers seem to be paired with 8" driver L/R's (like Klipsch RB-81 w/ RC-62). How is that matched?
3) My wife found 20" tall metal framed stands (with wood top), that she loves. Some questions on stands:
a) I've read of adding sand or lead shot to stands. What does heavy stands ad and how much difference over open metal frame stands in my situation?
b) A 20" stand with an ≈20" tall speaker, leaves the tweeters ≈ 4" lower than ear level in listening position. I imagine tilting speakers up slightly covers that issue.
c) RE: tilting, the center spkr. mounted below TV is already tilted up.

4) Recommendations on 5-10 year old Paradigm models of F/L & center matched speakers would be greatly appreciated. Klipsch recs. OK too. )

** for now the rear 7.1 surrounds are Bic V52 w/ 5 1/4" drivers. Replacing those is another discussion, but any ideas on how to match rear surrounds to the WG150 in wall's (8" Kevlar cone woofer, 1" aluminum dome swivel tweeter, sensitivity unknown! ), would be extra credit.

Wrong. They do not work when you're seated against that back wall. You need to be in the "null" for the effect to work with multipole speakers.

Direct radiators are what you NEED to use when your seating position is against the back wall.

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but when I was setting up my room I was told by dealers that in a 5.1 setup with no place to put the side surrounds and the seating was against the back wall this is where you use dipole/bipole. I had both and the directs made it clear where the sound was coming from, IMHO they were not the way to go.

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but when I was setting up my room I was told by dealers that in a 5.1 setup with no place to put the side surrounds and the seating was against the back wall this is where you use dipole/bipole. I had both and the directs made it clear where the sound was coming from, IMHO they were not the way to go.If you are using dipoles, and they are placed to either side of you (not behind) they should create the null you want.

If you are using dipoles, and they are placed to either side of you (not behind) they should create the null you want.

In my case they are both behind me and off to the sides. About 3ft above the seating and 2ft or so to the sides.

I found I like the setup of this unique angle... I also run them a little hotter then my other channels (2-3db max)

In my case they are both behind me and off to the sides. About 3ft above the seating and 2ft or so to the sides.

Just for the heck of it are you able to try the dipoles rotated 90 degrees? Meaning firing up off the ceiling and down towards you. Reason i mention this is i once had a seating situation where the rear speakers/main seating was very similar to yours and wasn't prepared to buy new speakers ( I ran ADP-370's). I found this setup passable assuming your head is at least 2 ft from the rear wall. Bottom line is experiment but do keep in mind the basic tried and true guidelines regarding speaker placement, every room is different.

I've read rave reviews of the Studio 20 v.4's for front L/R of HT 5.1 system. I have not seen much at all about the Studio 40's. Someone even preferred Studio 20 as center (instead of CC-590) with L/R Studio 20's. I thought I was getting close to a good choice with 20 v.4 or maybe 40's if I ever hear a reason to go for the dual 7" midrange drivers.

So is there any downside to the CC-590 vs. a Studio 20 as center, other than ≈ $500 in cost?

Jebus Crisp, now I just read there are now or will be very soon Studio V.5. They LOOK awesome with curved cabinet! One early review thought the 20 V.5 was too bright and preferred V.4.

A comment I did not understand at all was "combining 20 V.5's with a Denon would be like nails on a chalk board". ?? I have a Denon 1909. I have not heard of the 1909 (or any) AVR, being too bright. Any insight on this would be appreciated.?

Trying to shop/Google sellers and prices for Paradigm Studio 20, 40 and CC-590, I find no places on the web. Are these only sold in HT stores? If so, Any ideas if v.4's would or should sell at a discount since the (great looking) v.5's are out, or will be as soon as dealers deplete v.4 inventory?

Trying to shop/Google sellers and prices for Paradigm Studio 20, 40 and CC-590, I find no places on the web. Are these only sold in HT stores? If so, Any ideas if v.4's would or should sell at a discount since the (great looking) v.5's are out, or will be as soon as dealers deplete v.4 inventory?

Paradigm is in-store only, if you want authorized. For older models, you might consider used on audiogon.

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but when I was setting up my room I was told by dealers that in a 5.1 setup with no place to put the side surrounds and the seating was against the back wall this is where you use dipole/bipole. I had both and the directs made it clear where the sound was coming from, IMHO they were not the way to go.

It's not an opinion. What I stated is how dipoles are supposed to be placed according to the manufacturers of them. Now, if you listened to a dealer who was trying to make a sale and sold you some speakers that were more expensive then the proper type speakers for your situation and are happy about it, I'm happy for you. :)

http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/literature/surrounds.php

http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/51.html

It's not an opinion. What I stated is how dipoles are supposed to be placed according to the manufacturers of them. Now, if you listened to a dealer who was trying to make a sale and sold you some speakers that were more expensive then the proper type speakers for your situation and are happy about it, I'm happy for you. :)

http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/literature/surrounds.php

http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/51.html

Well I didn't buy them from my dealer so that's a moot point, I told him what my room was like, seating etc and he said what speakers are best for it. Thats when he made the statement about what dipoles/bipoles were designed for. In your links they show seating in the center area of a room, my couch is against the back wall, which is once again why I was told bipoles or dipoles.

You are correct, although in a perfect world you would not sit there, given the situation dipoles will help create a better psychoacoustic effect. Dipole sides, and direct rears are only better if the rears are @ least about 6ft. back or more.

You are correct, although in a perfect world you would not sit there, given the situation dipoles will help create a better psychoacoustic effect. Dipole sides, and direct rears are only better if the rears are @ least about 6ft. back or more.

No he is not. For dipole speakers to work the way they are intended you are supposed to sit in the "null". The null is the area directly between the side surround speakers, with one set of drivers aimed just ahead of you and the other set of drivers aimed just to the rear of you. FACT.

If he is happy with the results he has obtained using the speakers the way he is, great. It's not fair to try and justify it because a dealer said it. The dealer was wrong.

To WaTaGuMp, yes in the links I provided the couch is well away from the rear wall. That is a situation where you want to use di-pole speakers. Since your couch is against the wall you should not be using dipole speakers. The effect and benefit of dipoles, the null, is completely negated by using them in your arrangement. But again, if you are happy, I'm happy for you. :)

I am just about ready to pull the trigger on a pair of Studio 20 v.4's for front L & R for strictly HT use. I have a Servo-15 sub, so the lows are more than covered. My AVR is a Denon 1909 with 90 w/ch x7.

My big dilemma is that I need to decide ASAP to commit to ordering a CC-590 v.4 for ≈ $750. If I do not order this in the next day or two, it may no longer be available as all V.4 studio series are being blown out to make room for the just arriving (and awesome looking) V.5's with the curved cabinets and $100 added to list price! :(

OR

Go with an older CC-450 center that's available pretty cheap. I would LOVE to choose the CC-450, but am concerned about a decent enough timber match. I don't know how to gauge that. Also, the Studio 20's will already push the envelope with the wife with the cash outflow! :eek:

The question I need help on from the knowledgeable folks on this thread is how will the CC-450 (ver. unknown) timber match with the Studio 20 v.4's?
Studio 20 v.4 SPECS.:
Tweeter... 1" G-PAL dome die-cast heatsink chassis, ferro-fluid cooled, IMS / Shock-Mount.
Driver... 7" S-PAL cone, 1.5" voice coil, AVS die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS / Shock-Mount.
90 / 87 dB
54 Hz - 22 kHz
100 w max input power
15"h x 8.25"w x 12.75"d

CC-450 SPECS: ( I hope this is an OK match) :confused:
(info pulled from various sources. Specs not on Paradigm site)
Tweeter... 1" PAL Pure Aluminum Dome
Drivers (2)... 6.5" MLP Mica polymer cone, AVS
90 dB
70 Hz - 22 kHz
130 w max power input
8"h x 22"w x 11.5"d

The local dealer is offering the Studio 40 V.4 for $1098. it is a floor model but he says it is in good shape. I was wondering if the new studio 20 would be a better buy. I have a sub woofer already (sunfire junior)

I was hoping he would give me a better deal on a floor model but he seems too greedy. Sure it comes with warranty but still I feel $1098 for a floor model of a discontinued item is too much. I like the curved shape of the new studio 20's but the studio 40's look like they can handle bass better than the new studio 20's.

Would the studio 40 with 2 7" drivers handle the midrange and upper bass better than the new studio 20 with a single driver? I have the correct stands for the studio 40 as I already have the Klipsch RB81 which are also very tall like 19". I am planning to sell the Klipsch RB81 and get either studio 40 or the new studio 20 but I have not heard either of them yet.

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

I said I would not bring up my defective part issue with Paradigm again... however, there has been a new development.

I was contacted by the merchant to pick up the replacement driver this afternoon (8 days after notifying them of the defective part). Stopped by after work for the swap... brought it home pulled it out of the package and it had a dented cone.

The manner in which they package the driver for shipping leaves something to be desired, basically they bag the thing in heavy gauge clear plastic and prop it up in a cardboard cradle, knot the bag up, lay the knot directly on the cone, and close the box lid over the knot. It's my opinion that the knotted plastic was forced down hard enough by the box top to dent the cone in 2 places.

On the bright side, the dented driver fixed the distortion issue. Waiting for replacement #2....

Just picked up Studio 100 v.4 fronts.

Trying to decide on rear surrounds to match with them. I will be doing 5.1 for now.

My choices are:

1) ADP590
2) ADP390
3) Studio 20s
4) Studio 40s

In terms of performance...which would be best matched?

Which are the best bang for the buck (keeping in mind I can get a very nice deal on the 20s and 40s right now)?

Any positives/negatives for each?

Thank you very much in advance for your help!

I am just about ready to pull the trigger on a pair of Studio 20 v.4's for front L & R for strictly HT use. I have a Servo-15 sub, so the lows are more than covered. My AVR is a Denon 1909 with 90 w/ch x7.

My big dilemma is that I need to decide ASAP to commit to ordering a CC-590 v.4 for ≈ $750. If I do not order this in the next day or two, it may no longer be available as all V.4 studio series are being blown out to make room for the just arriving (and awesome looking) V.5's with the curved cabinets and $100 added to list price! :(

OR

Go with an older CC-450 center that's available pretty cheap. I would LOVE to choose the CC-450, but am concerned about a decent enough timber match. I don't know how to gauge that. Also, the Studio 20's will already push the envelope with the wife with the cash outflow! :eek:

The question I need help on from the knowledgeable folks on this thread is how will the CC-450 (ver. unknown) timber match with the Studio 20 v.4's?
Studio 20 v.4 SPECS.:
Tweeter... 1" G-PAL dome die-cast heatsink chassis, ferro-fluid cooled, IMS / Shock-Mount.
Driver... 7" S-PAL cone, 1.5" voice coil, AVS die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS / Shock-Mount.
90 / 87 dB
54 Hz - 22 kHz
100 w max input power
15"h x 8.25"w x 12.75"d

CC-450 SPECS: ( I hope this is an OK match) :confused:
(info pulled from various sources. Specs not on Paradigm site)
Tweeter... 1" PAL Pure Aluminum Dome
Drivers (2)... 6.5" MLP Mica polymer cone, AVS
90 dB
70 Hz - 22 kHz
130 w max power input
8"h x 22"w x 11.5"d

I'm not answering your timbre matching question, just making an observation:

I don't think your 1909 receiver is powerful enough to run these speakers. You'd need at least the 3808 or higher to get the max potential. Also, you risk distortion damage at higher dB's.

I think you're better off getting speakers that are easier to drive, like the Monitor series. Again, IMHO.

The local dealer is offering the Studio 40 V.4 for $1098. it is a floor model but he says it is in good shape. I was wondering if the new studio 20 would be a better buy. I have a sub woofer already (sunfire junior)

I was hoping he would give me a better deal on a floor model but he seems too greedy. Sure it comes with warranty but still I feel $1098 for a floor model of a discontinued item is too much. I like the curved shape of the new studio 20's but the studio 40's look like they can handle bass better than the new studio 20's.

Would the studio 40 with 2 7" drivers handle the midrange and upper bass better than the new studio 20 with a single driver? I have the correct stands for the studio 40 as I already have the Klipsch RB81 which are also very tall like 19". I am planning to sell the Klipsch RB81 and get either studio 40 or the new studio 20 but I have not heard either of them yet.

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

Similar advice applies to you as I gave to davekro.

You are moving from very easy to drive, efficient horn-loaded speakers to relatively inefficient Studio Reference line. Make sure your amp is powerful enough to drive the Studio line. Remember that every increase of 3dB requires a doubling of wattage.

I had the v4 20's briefly but returned them. Too laid back for me and my Rotel couldn't adquately drive them even at an honest 140W/channel using only 2 channels.

Thats the first time I ever heard of the studios as power hungry???

Always thought they were very efficient.

Thats the first time I ever heard of the studios as power hungry???

Always thought they were very efficient.

Klipsch RB81 sensitivity 91dB @ 2.83V / 1m according to HT Magazine (97dB according to Klipsch website)

Studio Reference 40 89dB Anechoic

Studio Reference 20 87dB Anechoic

Even if this is not apples to apples comparison, the sensitivity ratings are not even in the same neighborhood. Again, every 3dB that needs to be made up requires a doubling of wattage.

Anechoic will always read lower sensitivity than in room generally around 3db dips into
lower impedances combined with low sensitivity will pose a heavy load on an amp.

Klipsch RB81 sensitivity 91dB @ 2.83V / 1m according to HT Magazine (97dB according to Klipsch website)

Studio Reference 40 89dB Anechoic

Studio Reference 20 87dB Anechoic

Even if this is not apples to apples comparison, the sensitivity ratings are not even in the same neighborhood. Again, every 3dB that needs to be made up requires a doubling of wattage.

sorry thats over my head a bit... Who has their viewing levels at 100+db to make those numbers poor?

sorry thats over my head a bit... Who has their viewing levels at 100+db to make those numbers poor?

Most calibration discs use a reference noise meant to be played back at 75dB. 75dB is not a whole lot lower than the sensitivity ratings of these speakers. For most people, there's plenty of headroom but 100 watts from a $600 receiver < 100 watts from a $2000 receiver < 100 watts from a dedicated amp/monoblock. Most people don't pay attention to the THD levels concerning that 100 watt rating. That's why I keep referring to an "honest 100 watts."

Most calibration discs use a reference noise meant to be played back at 75dB. 75dB is not a whole lot lower than the sensitivity ratings of these speakers. For most people, there's plenty of headroom but 100 watts from a $600 receiver < 100 watts from a $2000 receiver < 100 watts from a dedicated amp/monoblock. Most people don't pay attention to the THD levels concerning that 100 watt rating. That's why I keep referring to an "honest 100 watts."im planning on getting a NAD T975 amp would you consider this amp a true 145 watts?

Greetings, I have a similar dilemma as a few others... knowing time is running out on the V4 studio 60's , I had my local rep order me a pair from the factory(he says one of eight left) also only in cherry). I feel like I got a good enough deal (1500 cash) so I am happy about the purchase for sure.
Here is the question... should I hurry and get a v4 CC ? or is it not that big of a deal if at a later time (after I rebound a bit) I get a v5 CC .. any help is mucho appreciato.

im planning on getting a NAD T975 amp would you consider this amp a true 145 watts?

Yes, but be careful with 4 ohm speakers. Your amp loses a bit of muscle with 4 ohm. You normally like to see the wattage double going from 8 to 4 ohm but your NAD does not. Still puts my Rotel AVR to shame. ;)

Greetings, I have a similar dilemma as a few others... knowing time is running out on the V4 studio 60's , I had my local rep order me a pair from the factory(he says one of eight left) also only in cherry). I feel like I got a good enough deal (1500 cash) so I am happy about the purchase for sure.
Here is the question... should I hurry and get a v4 CC ? or is it not that big of a deal if at a later time (after I rebound a bit) I get a v5 CC .. any help is mucho appreciato.


In my opinion, it's unlikely you'll be able to tell a tonal difference in HT 5-7.x between the v4 and v5. They didn't make any earth-shattering modifications between the two versions. The drivers are still nearly identical (I think I read they modified the surrounds), which is what matters most.

im planning on getting a NAD T975 amp would you consider this amp a true 145 watts?

I have read that NAD's are generally rated lower then what they can really do. I don't have an amp but I do run the T754 receiver.

I have read that NAD's are generally rated lower then what they can really do. I don't have an amp but I do run the T754 receiver.
just did some research i see the anthem A5 and thr T975 are the same price im thinking I rather have an Anthem(balanced inputs) over NAD amp

just did some research i see the anthem A5 and thr T975 are the same price im thinking I rather have an Anthem(balanced inputs) over NAD amp

Listen to them both if you can see which you like best. Of course Paradigm dealers will try and sell you the Anthem, not that its a bad thing. ;)

I'm not answering your timbre matching question, just making an observation:

I don't think your 1909 receiver is powerful enough to run these speakers. You'd need at least the 3808 or higher to get the max potential. Also, you risk distortion damage at higher dB's.

I think you're better off getting speakers that are easier to drive, like the Monitor series. Again, IMHO.

Well, ignorance is NOT bliss! You just explained why the Klipsch Cornwall II's w/ horn mid & tweeter (101dB Sens.) have always overpowered the 90dB center speaker I have been using for many years!

Maybe the Cornwall's are not so bad... if I had a 101dB center, timber match aside. Besides (I imagine) being hard to timber match Corwalls in the ≈ 26"w x 8-9"h space available for my center, my wife has been wanting these monsters 'out of the living room' for a long time!

Most speakers I see list only one dB level. Paradigm lists two, room and anechoic. Paradigm Studio 20 v.4 shows 90 room / 87 anechoic. Is it correct to assume the first # (room 90dB) is the one to compare to other quoted specs? If so:

Klipsch Cornwall II.............101 dB

" RC-62 ................ 98dB
" RB-81 ................ 97dB

" RC-52 ................ 96dB
" RB-61 ................ 95dB

Paradigm CC-290 v.4.......... 94dB
" Titan Monitor....... 93dB
" Mini Monitor........ 92dB

" Studio 40 v.4....... 92dB
" CC-590 v.4.......... 90dB
" Studio 20 v.4....... 90dB

With my Denon 1909 with 90w/ch, do I drop sound quality by going with less expensive Klipsch RB81/RC62 vs. Paradigm Studio 20 v.4/CC-590?
Now I realize I will have a lot cleaner power to get a given volume level with the Klipsch's vs. the Paradigm.

How do you all feel about the sound quality comparison? Are the 8" woofer in a 2 way a crossover challenge, or some how not as good as a 7" woofer in a two way? My WG150W in wall surrounds happen to have an 8" woofer with a 1" Alum dome tweeter. Could that possibly contribute to a better timber match with RB-81 front L&R?

Thanks again for any thoughts.
Dave

Most speakers I see list only one dB level. Paradigm lists two, room and anechoic. Paradigm Studio 20 v.4 shows 90 room / 87 anechoic. Is it correct to assume the first # (room 90dB) is the one to compare to other quoted specs? If so:

Klipsch Cornwall II.............101 dB

" RC-62 ................ 98dB
" RB-81 ................ 97dB

" RC-52 ................ 96dB
" RB-61 ................ 95dB

Paradigm CC-290 v.4.......... 94dB
" Titan Monitor....... 93dB
" Mini Monitor........ 92dB

" Studio 40 v.4....... 92dB
" CC-590 v.4.......... 90dB
" Studio 20 v.4....... 90dB

With my Denon 1909 with 90w/ch, do I drop sound quality by going with less expensive Klipsch RB81/RC62 vs. Paradigm Studio 20 v.4/CC-590?
Now I realize I will have a lot cleaner power to get a given volume level with the Klipsch's vs. the Paradigm.

How do you all feel about the sound quality comparison? Are the 8" woofer in a 2 way a crossover challenge, or some how not as good as a 7" woofer in a two way? My WG150W in wall surrounds happen to have an 8" woofer with a 1" Alum dome tweeter. Could that possibly contribute to a better timber match with RB-81 front L&R?

Thanks again for any thoughts.
Dave

I normally quote the second number (anechoic) because it tends to be more standardized vs the room response (different rooms, different gains). The HT number I quoted for the RB81 was "quasi-anechoic".

It's difficult to compare a horn loaded tweeter speaker to a conventional one. You really have to listen to both. If you don't mind the horn since you are a current owner, stick with Klipsch as they'll be easier to drive and you'll be giving them more clean power vs the Studio Ref series.

Edit: To answer your original question, what's wrong with getting something like the Klipsch RC-62 as your center channel? It would meet all your req I think.

Can someone PLEASE explain these numbers?

I thought it meant it took 1 watt to get them to the numbers above... If thats the case then any amp should be powerfull enough (unlees I am totally wrong - very possible)

Can someone PLEASE explain these numbers?

I thought it meant it took 1 watt to get them to the numbers above... If thats the case then any amp should be powerfull enough (unlees I am totally wrong - very possible)

Yes but from 1 meter away. Who sits 1 meter from the speaker?

Audioholics is a good place to learn all this technical stuff. Very important if you want to get the best out of Ref Studio or Signature series speakers.

Another fun site is:

myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Ok guess I better go read then because with that said I don't see how they could evr use even 100w of power. I've never heard my onkyo 805 clip at all.

This stuff is way over my head. I just though if you get better speakers it sounds better lol :p So the better the speakers, the better the amp you should get to power them? So lets say you had 3 studio 100's as LCR and 4 20's for surrounds (I dont have this, just theoretical), what kind of amp(s) would you need to power that system?

This stuff is way over my head. I just though if you get better speakers it sounds better lol :p So the better the speakers, the better the amp you should get to power them? So lets say you had 3 studio 100's as LCR and 4 20's for surrounds (I dont have this, just theoretical), what kind of amp(s) would you need to power that system?

I'd go with separates and not a receiver. Something like the NAD T975 amp as a MINIMUM.

I'd go with separates and not a receiver. Something like the NAD T975 amp as a MINIMUM.

So the T975 would power all 7 channels and then just need to add in a preamp or?

Can you add a NAD t975 to a Denon 3808 and let the denon be the preamp?

I normally quote the second number (anechoic) because it tends to be more standardized vs the room response (different rooms, different gains). The HT number I quoted for the RB81 was "quasi-anechoic".

It's difficult to compare a horn loaded tweeter speaker to a conventional one. You really have to listen to both. If you don't mind the horn since you are a current owner, stick with Klipsch as they'll be easier to drive and you'll be giving them more clean power vs the Studio Ref series.

Edit: To answer your original question, what's wrong with getting something like the Klipsch RC-62 as your center channel? It would meet all your req I think.

Room vs. anechoic... which one is the one speaker mfg'ers quote in their specs.? If is 'room', then the #'s listed above as OEM specs are pretty significant. Is it the case that most Studio series owners have much higher amp. power than my 1909's 90 w/ch, I wonder?

Your RC-62 rec.: Do you mean to use as a center for my Cornwalls? That certainly would be the least expensive way to go. I love my Cornwalls. Having told the wife I am finally willing to let these leave the living room (and sell), about a week ago I moved them out of the livingroom. My wife loves it. The WAF of bringing them back would be pretty disappointing to her. Maybe not having to spend $700-$800 on new L&R speakers would assuage her disappointment until finances are stronger. I'd have to check... Would the RC-62 (or RC-64 better match??) be an acceptible timber match with the cornwalls? (I could squeeze in the RC-64 if I took away a [not used] cassette player AND having RC-64 off center 4" under my 73" mits TV.... main listening position is right of center anyway)

Can a general description of sound difference be made between horn driven vs. a conventional speakers. I will need to find a Klipsch dealer to compare types.

So the T975 would power all 7 channels and then just need to add in a preamp or?

Can you add a NAD t975 to a Denon 3808 and let the denon be the preamp?

Yes to both questions.

I'd personally prefer a true preamp over the 3808.

Can someone PLEASE explain these numbers?

I thought it meant it took 1 watt to get them to the numbers above... If thats the case then any amp should be powerfull enough (unlees I am totally wrong - very possible)
Peak SPL Calculator (http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html)

So much depends on your seating distance.

With my Denon 1909 with 90w/ch, do I drop sound quality by going with less expensive Klipsch RB81/RC62 vs. Paradigm Studio 20 v.4/CC-590?
Home Theater mag reviewed the Denon AVR-2105 (I use this as a comparison because it is quoted from Denon as 90 watts x 7, the same as the 1909). In their lab measurement they tested it as 67.8 watts, 0.1% distortion 5 channels driven. 105.6 watts, 0.1% distortion into two channels.

So, according the the link I posted above, into 88db speakers, when watching movies in 5 channels, and sitting 10 feet away, you should get 103.6 db. But over 106 db if the speakers are within 4' of a wall.

For stereo, you should get 101 db at 10 feet away and 105db if the speakers are withing 4' of a wall.

CONCLUSION: Your Denon AVR 1909 will be fantastic with Paradigm speakers.

Home Theater mag reviewed the Denon AVR-2105 (I use this as a comparison because it is quoted from Denon as 90 watts x 7, the same as the 1909). In their lab measurement they tested it as 67.8 watts, 0.1% distortion 5 channels driven. 105.6 watts, 0.1% distortion into two channels.

So, according the the link I posted above, into 88db speakers, when watching movies in 5 channels, and sitting 10 feet away, you should get 103.6 db. But over 106 db if the speakers are within 4' of a wall.

For stereo, you should get 101 db at 10 feet away and 105db if the speakers are withing 4' of a wall.

CONCLUSION: Your Denon AVR 1909 will be fantastic with Paradigm speakers.

Like I said, there's still some headroom with most AVR's.

Stereophile's review of the v4 20's recommended an amp that is decent even to 4 ohms. The speaker has min impedances that will drift to that region quite a bit. I'm sure most will just happily ignore that. I don't think the 1909 is rated for 4 ohms at all.

I have an Onkyo 805 which i hear is very poor in 4ohms and it actually makes you select 6ohm or 4ohm and supposedly lowers output into 4ohm...

Still it has 130w and is suppose to be a very good rated sounding speaker

Yes to both questions.

I'd personally prefer a true preamp over the 3808.

What if you already have the 3808 :)

I know when buying the preamp, getting the most up to date one is important, such as having HDMI 1.3, etc. But buying a amp - is that important to get the latest one, or will a used one work just as good since all it does (i assume) is supply power? Thanks for teaching a newbie :)

Like I said, there's still some headroom with most AVR's.

Stereophile's review of the v4 20's recommended an amp that is decent even to 4 ohms. The speaker has min impedances that will drift to that region quite a bit. I'm sure most will just happily ignore that. I don't think the 1909 is rated for 4 ohms at all.All 8 ohm speakers, even the Klipsch, drift into the 4 ohm range (in fact many Klipsch drift into 3 ohm range), but that's not what nominal impedance means. These Paradigms will be fine with 8 ohm amplifiers because they are rated 8 ohm nominal.

What if you already have the 3808 :)

I know when buying the preamp, getting the most up to date one is important, such as having HDMI 1.3, etc. But buying a amp - is that important to get the latest one, or will a used one work just as good since all it does (i assume) is supply power? Thanks for teaching a newbie :)

There are plenty of old amps out there that still sound amazing, so no you don't NEED to buy the latest and greatest. Buying used is a very smart way to save cash, don't hesitate on a good deal once you find the amp you like.

What if you already have the 3808 :)

I know when buying the preamp, getting the most up to date one is important, such as having HDMI 1.3, etc. But buying a amp - is that important to get the latest one, or will a used one work just as good since all it does (i assume) is supply power? Thanks for teaching a newbie :)

Used is fine. The latest models are Class D and don't run as hot as conventional AB amps but cost quite a bit. If temp and electric usage is not a heavy concern, go conventional.

All 8 ohm speakers, even the Klipsch, drift into the 4 ohm range (in fact many Klipsch drift into 3 ohm range), but that's not what nominal impedance means. These Paradigms will be fine with 8 ohm amplifiers because they are rated 8 ohm nominal.

My point is manufacturers sometimes call a speaker "nominal" 8 ohms that should be more conservatively called 4 ohms. That's why publications like Stereophile are helpful in getting the "real deal."

We are all happy with what we have until the first time we get dedicated amps and the speakers really open up!

Curious if anyone has heard the new Studio 20 v.5's and can comment on the sound quality compared to v/4's? I read a post or two elsewhere that thought they didn't sound quite as good as the v.4. I don't recall the specifics. Maybe it was a v.4 owner liking HIS speakers, who knows.

I have the ADP590 V.5 but don't really have anything to compare them to as they are my first setup for surrounds. I will say the sound is a little subtle despite running about 2db hot but then again adp's are not a good judge of the v.5

I had the following Audyssey Issues:

Studio 60 v.3 - Aud said Full band - I set to 80hz
CC-570 - Aud Said 100hz - I set to 80hz
ADP590 v.5 - AUD SAID 150hz!! - Change to 80???

Why the heck would it say 150 for the ADP's?

I preffer to not go over 70hz on crossover for less directionallity but have gone to 80hz but REALLY dont think it makes sense to let the bass for the rear speakers be sent to the front at frequencies where it will easily be detected directionally

Most speakers I see list only one dB level. Paradigm lists two, room and anechoic. Paradigm Studio 20 v.4 shows 90 room / 87 anechoic. Is it correct to assume the first # (room 90dB) is the one to compare to other quoted specs? If so:

Klipsch Cornwall II.............101 dB

" RC-62 ................ 98dB
" RB-81 ................ 97dB

" RC-52 ................ 96dB
" RB-61 ................ 95dB

Paradigm CC-290 v.4.......... 94dB
" Titan Monitor....... 93dB
" Mini Monitor........ 92dB

" Studio 40 v.4....... 92dB
" CC-590 v.4.......... 90dB
" Studio 20 v.4....... 90dB

With my Denon 1909 with 90w/ch, do I drop sound quality by going with less expensive Klipsch RB81/RC62 vs. Paradigm Studio 20 v.4/CC-590?
Now I realize I will have a lot cleaner power to get a given volume level with the Klipsch's vs. the Paradigm.

How do you all feel about the sound quality comparison? Are the 8" woofer in a 2 way a crossover challenge, or some how not as good as a 7" woofer in a two way? My WG150W in wall surrounds happen to have an 8" woofer with a 1" Alum dome tweeter. Could that possibly contribute to a better timber match with RB-81 front L&R?

Thanks again for any thoughts.
Dave


The main reason I am switching from RB81 to Studio 40 or Studio 20 V.5 is the sound difference. I prefer the laid back sound. The RB81 is not as harsh as a typical horn but it is still too forward at high volume. I also own a cheap boston acoustics HS60. it is like 88db sensitivity. I am able to drive it with my
old Yamaha RX-v795a and I like the laid back sound and the smooth highs. I am sure the studio 40 or 20 v.5 will sound a lot clearer than the HS60.

I also have the Denon 2809CI. I was using it with the RB81 but I put it up for sale as I am planning to go with the Yamaha RX_v2700. I have not tried the 2809 with the HS60. I am not going to drive any of the speakers at crazy volumes. But I will be eventually going with a separate amp, most likely
a 200wpc ROTEL class D.

In summary I am not concerned with the sensitivity of the speakers. I am switching to paradigm from klipsch mainly for a laid back sound. I have put up my klipsch RB81 at audiogon. I am hoping that I will like the studio 20 v.5.
I guess I will pass the $1098 offer from my dealer for the studio 40's.

I'd like to hear opinions on price to value on the Studio 20 v.4 and 40 v.4 setups below.

I finally got a hold of my local Paradigm dealer after querying the ones in outlying areas for availablity and pricing they were willing to do. I wanted toask my local guy last, to give him the opportunity to get my business.
Amazingly, he actually had V.4 versions of all below. Some new (n) come demo (d).

Option (A).....Pair of 20's(n) & CC-590 (d) for $1490 w/tax

Option (B)).....Pair of 40's(n) & CC-690 (n) for $2290 w/tax
1) Slight minus
...a) With the CC-690 (33"long) It will need to sit to the right of the AVR on top shelf which makes the tweeter (center) about 4" of center to the right. The main seating position is ≈ 20" of ctr. to the right and w/Audyssey, that should not be a too significant, correct?
...b) No big deal, I will need to get rid of a cassette deck that I never use.
2) $800 more for Option a) over Option B).

Whoops, after getting the CC-690 quoted with the 40's, I remembered Paradigm calls for the CC-590 with the 40's as well as the 20's! So that leaves...

Option (C).....Pair of 40's(n) & CC-590 (d) for ≈$1860 w/tax.

- The extra $800 is a challenging pill to swallow (more for my wife) of B) over A).
- The extra $370 of C) over A) sounds much easier.

Should the CC-690 even be considered with the 40's ?

Bending Maxwell Smart's infamous line a bit...
"I am THAT close" to pulling the trigger.

I need to pull myself away from this danged internet to go to work to pay for this, er, investment. ;) I plan to go to the AV store Friday morning to listen to to the different options, but it would be good to know what the wise folks here recommend too. Especially the CC-690 fitting with the 40's.

A HUGE thanks to all who have put up with all my questions. :DI am one of THOSE guys...

I apologise for the price talk. To paraphrase Larry the Cable Guy says...Lord, I apologize, that wadn't right"

I had the following Audyssey Issues:

Studio 60 v.3 - Aud said Full band - I set to 80hz
CC-570 - Aud Said 100hz - I set to 80hz
ADP590 v.5 - AUD SAID 150hz!! - Change to 80???

Why the heck would it say 150 for the ADP's?

I preffer to not go over 70hz on crossover for less directionallity but have gone to 80hz but REALLY dont think it makes sense to let the bass for the rear speakers be sent to the front at frequencies where it will easily be detected directionally

Try listening to it as it is for a few days and see if you like it, then change it to 70 or 80 and listen for a few days. You plan to keep your system for a few years why not take a few weeks to set it up? Run Aud. 5-10 times just for the heck of it and see what happens.

Any and all of those configurations will make for some fantastic systems.

I have the Signature S4's and the C3, which is along the lines and very close sonically to the 40's and 590.... with the right power driving them it will be an incredibly impressive system... You can get the stands on Audiogon when they pop up from time to time for a reasonable price.

Stop worrying about all this and pull the trigger, your driving yourself nuts here..

May I also suggest that you take a search for "paradigm" on Audiogon.com, videogon for some spectacular deals that are flying around, that is where I got my Rosewood Sigs from.... They came brand new in box, never opened.

How about a pair of 100's and a 690 for $1850. ??
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1239508051&/Paradigm-Studio-V.4-studio-100

There are plenty of deals to be had.... get 'em while their hot !!!!

Similar advice applies to you as I gave to davekro.

You are moving from very easy to drive, efficient horn-loaded speakers to relatively inefficient Studio Reference line. Make sure your amp is powerful enough to drive the Studio line. Remember that every increase of 3dB requires a doubling of wattage.

I had the v4 20's briefly but returned them. Too laid back for me and my Rotel couldn't adquately drive them even at an honest 140W/channel using only 2 channels.

yep. power is not an issue. I will be adding an amp after I finalize the speakers. I prefer laid back sound. I swithced from B&W 602 S2 to
Klipsch RB81. I want to go back to a laid back speaker. Tried the Monitor 9's but they were not laid back. They too have very sensitivity and was more forward like the Klipsch RB81

My question was more about how the studio 40 would stack up against studio 20 v.5. May be it is too early to ask as the studio 20 v.5 is just out. But I am guessing that studio 40 with 2 7" woofers would do better with bass than studio 20 v.5. I am a bit hesitant to pay $1098 for a floor model studio 40. I midht as well get the studio 20 v.5

The guy at that link was not being honest. The $1850 was only for the 100's. The CC-690 was plus $1000. So $2850 for the set. No steal.

The pricing on what little I see in my reqmt. set are very close to the prices of what my local guy is quoting and all I have seen at Audiogon etc.. It seems the value of these hold at a pretty close range on used speakers too.

Though I may sound 'still wiggy', I am feeling much more comfortable with pulling the triger. I have read very little on the praises or otherwise of the 40's. On paper, they seem like a worthwhile plus. Also having the tweeter 7" taller on my existing 20" stands (that my wife just loves, w/ palm design), would put the tweeter exactly at ear height. A very good plus, because I'd prefer That to tilting up the 20's!

Now with Audyssey, it may set, or should I set the 40's (also if 20's) to 'Small'. Audyssey with a sub (and I have three including a Paradigm Servo 15) recommends all other speakers be set to 'Small'. With both 40's OR 20's set to 'Small' , will that cut out some or all of whatthe second woofer would add?

I'll listen Friday morning, but what I would expect to hear (listen for) different between the dual cone 40 and single cone 20?

My gut says the 40/CC-590 will win out. Just now thinking my 31' Long x 23' wide great room would probably benefit from the extra L/R drivers.

I think I have settled my self down now on 'which speakers' (40/590) and on that I am reasonably comfortable with the price point, though it took a lot of growth from my original budget (funny how that works!).

PsychoM3, I don't care to make my ears bleed (for too long a period of time :o) and my wife hates it loud and usually goes into the bedroom to watch 'her shows' when I want go loud on an action BD disc.

Glad to know the Denon 1909 should be fine with 90w/ch pushing the these. Would the fact that the 40's are 92dB and the CC-590 is 90 db (20's are 90db also), weigh in on a decision on 40's vs. 20's given the balance of other criteria?

I am almost through splitting hairs here. See what my wife has to put up with? ! ! The woman is a saint! ;)

Thanks all,
Dave

Ok well I went to my paradigm dealer and explained that while playing a music cd at volume -5 on the denon receiver I got distortion. He confirmed it was clipping of the amp and that it wasn't able to send enough clean power. He told me a story about a guy who bought some Studio 60's. He said the guy had a denon at home and wanted to hear them with a denon so he wouldn't be fooled by different amps. So he hooked up a 3805 (I have a 3808) and it sounded ok.

Then the guy said, no let's try the 100's the 60's didn't sound good enough. The salesman said, before I do that, let me try the denon 4305 (or whatever it was). He said he tried that and it blew him away how that extra "5 watts" would make such a huge difference. He went on to explain, the wattage is much cleaner on the better amps and is closer to what it is rated at. He also explained that a 150 watt/channel receiver won't put out that much to anything more than about 1 speaker. Once you add in 5-7 speakers you'd be lucky to get half that.

Anyway, I explained to him I'd prefer to have a used amp or floor model as I don't want to spend a lot. He said his best recommendation would be a Anthem 3 or 5 channel amp, but it's gonna be like $2-3k. So he had a B&K used 6 channel 125w/channel amp that he said you could biwire it to your LCR and it would get very close to the sound of the anthem. He explained how it isn't the ideal situation since the tweeter gets more power than it needs and the woofer doesn't quite get enough, but assured it me it would be light years better than the denon by itself.

He said take it home no charge and try it out for a few days. If you like it, buy it, if you like it but maybe want more, take home one of the anthems, or if it doesn't make a difference bring it back and be happy with your denon.

Well after biwiring my LCR's - and hooking up the amp here at home along with my denon, all I have to say is I am extremely happy! It makes such a huge difference. Firstly, the sound seems much fuller and my normal volume while watching tv is about -20, now -25 seems to put me at the same levels.

Back to my music cd problem. I played the same cd, remember I got down to -5bd (it really didn't even seem extraordinarily loud either) when the distortion started. Now with the amp, I couldn't really get past -10 without feeling I was going to wake the neighbors:D The volume at that level seems so much higher than the denon alone at -5, and no distortion whatsoever. For comparison though, I took it to -5 just to be sure and no distortion/clipping whatsoever.

So I'm really happy with adding an amp, especially compared to just the denon, I never really realized that all wattage is not created equal. Now the only question is should I be content with this amp or upgrade to an Anthem, and I think I'm going to be content, since it sounds so great to my non-audiophile ears and I'm not reaching max levels. I guess the real test will be in the theater room once it's done since that room has a lot more treatments and is bigger.

If he is willing to let you test the Anthem for free you owe it to yourself to try it.

Does anyone know if the Emotiva XPA-3 can run Studio 60 v.3's and a cc-570?

It is 200w at 8 ohm but only goes up to 300w for 4 ohm and does not appear rated at 2 ohm (just incase I ever get true 4 ohm speakers one day)

If he is willing to let you test the Anthem for free you owe it to yourself to try it.

Good point, guess I will. I'm afraid I'll like it more then buy it:D

Does anyone know if the Emotiva XPA-3 can run Studio 60 v.3's and a cc-570?

It is 200w at 8 ohm but only goes up to 300w for 4 ohm and does not appear rated at 2 ohm (just incase I ever get true 4 ohm speakers one day)



I just picked up an XP-3 about a month ago. im also running (for now) the studio 60's v.3 but a CC-390 center channel, and this amp brought my front set-up to life! My onkyo 805 did a good job, but nothing compared to the Emo! It brought it details in movies and music i had never heard before! Thanks!

By the way guys i put up my Paradigms on ebay in case anyone is interested, here ya go!



Studio 60 auction number: 280312623749
CC-390 auction number: 280312629068




I decided to give the Studio v.5 a try!!!:D:D:D

Please PM me if anyones got any questions! THANKS!!!

I really need to know if...

The speaker stands for the Studio 20s come in a pair. I can't seem to find this info anywhere...excuse my ignorance...but it doesn't say PAIR anywhere!

I am looking at the J-29 stands.

My dealer "lists" the J-29 as $419 - but it doesn't say pair anywhere.

Thanks!

davekro -

I have Studio 40sv3, a CC-590v4 (SA-10 in-ceiling surrounds) and a Denon 2807 AVR. I also have an Odyssey Stratos HT-3 that's back with the maker being looked at. With or without the separate amp the speaker combo sounds great. Audyssey sets all of them to Large, even the surrounds. For HT I re-set them to small with 80hz crossover. When I listen to 2 channel (I have a lot of vinyl) I run the 40's Large with no sub.

Ok so, I also have a pair of Studio 20s in another room. I think they're great too. It's just a classic speaker. You'll just get a bit more bass with the 40s. You're in a no lose situation. Enjoy.

I really need to know if...

The speaker stands for the Studio 20s come in a pair. I can't seem to find this info anywhere...excuse my ignorance...but it doesn't say PAIR anywhere!

I am looking at the J-29 stands.

My dealer "lists" the J-29 as $419 - but it doesn't say pair anywhere.

Thanks!

Always sold in pair

Thank you so very much!

Now can you tell me what receiver to buy? LOL

Always sold in pair

I just picked up an XP-3 about a month ago. im also running (for now) the studio 60's v.3 but a CC-390 center channel, and this amp brought my front set-up to life! My onkyo 805 did a good job, but nothing compared to the Emo! It brought it details in movies and music i had never heard before! Thanks!

edoggrc51:

Congrats on your new Emotiva amp! I also have the Onkyo 805 receiver that I got before I bought my Paradigm Signatures and the 805 actually makes them sound pretty good, but I know with a separate amp, these speakers will really show what they can do. I'm trying to narrow down which amp to power my Signature S8's with and I'd love to hear either one of these:

The Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks or the D-Sonic Magnum 7-channel amp. Both amps put out 500+ watts per channel. The Emotiva is a Class A/B design and the D-Sonic is a Class D Digital amp.

The Emotiva XPA-1 got a rave review over at hometheaterhifi.com and most people are comparing the sound of the D-Sonic with Bel Canto which is highly reviewed as well. The XPA-1 is a fully differential balanced amp and I believe the D-Sonic is balanced but not fully differential. Either way once I get a processor with balanced outputs, I'm going to have an amp with balanced inputs.

Has anyone else used Emotiva or D-Sonic with their Paradigms? Thanks!

Thank you so very much!

Now can you tell me what receiver to buy? LOL

Look here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=478237

edoggrc51:

Congrats on your new Emotiva amp! I also have the Onkyo 805 receiver that I got before I bought my Paradigm Signatures and the 805 actually makes them sound pretty good, but I know with a separate amp, these speakers will really show what they can do. I'm trying to narrow down which amp to power my Signature S8's with and I'd love to hear either one of these:

The Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks or the D-Sonic Magnum 7-channel amp. Both amps put out 500+ watts per channel. The Emotiva is a Class A/B design and the D-Sonic is a Class D Digital amp.

The Emotiva XPA-1 got a rave review over at hometheaterhifi.com and most people are comparing the sound of the D-Sonic with Bel Canto which is highly reviewed as well. The XPA-1 is a fully differential balanced amp and I believe the D-Sonic is balanced but not fully differential. Either way once I get a processor with balanced outputs, I'm going to have an amp with balanced inputs.

Has anyone else used Emotiva or D-Sonic with their Paradigms? Thanks!

Speaking of Signature S8's.... Check out this sad scenario on ebay item # 250372149731 Complete Desecration !!!! :eek::(
http://i7.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/31/f7/9552_1.JPG

Also, Class D does not mean Digital....

You know my take on the Sigs with the D-Sonic... true sweetness IMO.

I have to question, why would you want seven of those emotiva amps stacked up like that... when you could get an all in one package.. Jimmy, why don't you just spring for the D-Sonic and see how it sits in your system, and get a pair of those Emo Mono's and A/B them in your house, return whichever you don't care for.. I suppose you could get a XPA5 for the center and rears

My Wyred4Sound amp ships out today, so I will have it next week to give ya my take on it... whether its any different or better then the D-Sonic.. :)

In all honesty my take on Emotiva leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.... I have just read so many not so hot things about them, from the hit and miss build quality to their CS.... I just wouldn't put my trust or faith in them for my high end products. Just one mans opinion (Flame suit on !!!! )

edoggrc51:

Congrats on your new Emotiva amp! I also have the Onkyo 805 receiver that I got before I bought my Paradigm Signatures and the 805 actually makes them sound pretty good, but I know with a separate amp, these speakers will really show what they can do. I'm trying to narrow down which amp to power my Signature S8's with and I'd love to hear either one of these:

The Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks or the D-Sonic Magnum 7-channel amp. Both amps put out 500+ watts per channel. The Emotiva is a Class A/B design and the D-Sonic is a Class D Digital amp.

The Emotiva XPA-1 got a rave review over at hometheaterhifi.com and most people are comparing the sound of the D-Sonic with Bel Canto which is highly reviewed as well. The XPA-1 is a fully differential balanced amp and I believe the D-Sonic is balanced but not fully differential. Either way once I get a processor with balanced outputs, I'm going to have an amp with balanced inputs.

Has anyone else used Emotiva or D-Sonic with their Paradigms? Thanks!Paradigm Reference Studio's and the Emotiva MPS-1 run my system. Three XPA-1's for the front and two XPA-2's for the surrounds would be more than you will ever need. Seven XPA-1's will tax your electrical service to the point where your system may suffer from lack of power and your electric bill may be a big surprise as well!

Ok well I went to my paradigm dealer and explained that while playing a music cd at volume -5 on the denon receiver I got distortion. He confirmed it was clipping of the amp and that it wasn't able to send enough clean power. He told me a story about a guy who bought some Studio 60's. He said the guy had a denon at home and wanted to hear them with a denon so he wouldn't be fooled by different amps. So he hooked up a 3805 (I have a 3808) and it sounded ok.

Then the guy said, no let's try the 100's the 60's didn't sound good enough. The salesman said, before I do that, let me try the denon 4305 (or whatever it was). He said he tried that and it blew him away how that extra "5 watts" would make such a huge difference. He went on to explain, the wattage is much cleaner on the better amps and is closer to what it is rated at. He also explained that a 150 watt/channel receiver won't put out that much to anything more than about 1 speaker. Once you add in 5-7 speakers you'd be lucky to get half that.

Anyway, I explained to him I'd prefer to have a used amp or floor model as I don't want to spend a lot. He said his best recommendation would be a Anthem 3 or 5 channel amp, but it's gonna be like $2-3k. So he had a B&K used 6 channel 125w/channel amp that he said you could biwire it to your LCR and it would get very close to the sound of the anthem. He explained how it isn't the ideal situation since the tweeter gets more power than it needs and the woofer doesn't quite get enough, but assured it me it would be light years better than the denon by itself.

He said take it home no charge and try it out for a few days. If you like it, buy it, if you like it but maybe want more, take home one of the anthems, or if it doesn't make a difference bring it back and be happy with your denon.

Well after biwiring my LCR's - and hooking up the amp here at home along with my denon, all I have to say is I am extremely happy! It makes such a huge difference. Firstly, the sound seems much fuller and my normal volume while watching tv is about -20, now -25 seems to put me at the same levels.

Back to my music cd problem. I played the same cd, remember I got down to -5bd (it really didn't even seem extraordinarily loud either) when the distortion started. Now with the amp, I couldn't really get past -10 without feeling I was going to wake the neighbors:D The volume at that level seems so much higher than the denon alone at -5, and no distortion whatsoever. For comparison though, I took it to -5 just to be sure and no distortion/clipping whatsoever.

So I'm really happy with adding an amp, especially compared to just the denon, I never really realized that all wattage is not created equal. Now the only question is should I be content with this amp or upgrade to an Anthem, and I think I'm going to be content, since it sounds so great to my non-audiophile ears and I'm not reaching max levels. I guess the real test will be in the theater room once it's done since that room has a lot more treatments and is bigger.

Looks like I have a "separates convert". Welcome to a new world of sound!

Room vs. anechoic... which one is the one speaker mfg'ers quote in their specs.? If is 'room', then the #'s listed above as OEM specs are pretty significant. Is it the case that most Studio series owners have much higher amp. power than my 1909's 90 w/ch, I wonder?

Your RC-62 rec.: Do you mean to use as a center for my Cornwalls? That certainly would be the least expensive way to go. I love my Cornwalls. Having told the wife I am finally willing to let these leave the living room (and sell), about a week ago I moved them out of the livingroom. My wife loves it. The WAF of bringing them back would be pretty disappointing to her. Maybe not having to spend $700-$800 on new L&R speakers would assuage her disappointment until finances are stronger. I'd have to check... Would the RC-62 (or RC-64 better match??) be an acceptible timber match with the cornwalls? (I could squeeze in the RC-64 if I took away a [not used] cassette player AND having RC-64 off center 4" under my 73" mits TV.... main listening position is right of center anyway)

Can a general description of sound difference be made between horn driven vs. a conventional speakers. I will need to find a Klipsch dealer to compare types.

Home Theater mag reviewed the Denon AVR-2105 (I use this as a comparison because it is quoted from Denon as 90 watts x 7, the same as the 1909). In their lab measurement they tested it as 67.8 watts, 0.1% distortion 5 channels driven. 105.6 watts, 0.1% distortion into two channels.

So, according the the link I posted above, into 88db speakers, when watching movies in 5 channels, and sitting 10 feet away, you should get 103.6 db. But over 106 db if the speakers are within 4' of a wall.

For stereo, you should get 101 db at 10 feet away and 105db if the speakers are withing 4' of a wall.

CONCLUSION: Your Denon AVR 1909 will be fantastic with Paradigm speakers.

davekro, Secrets recently did a review on your 1909 receiver. Here's a sample from the benchmark:

"THD+N vs. Frequency is shown below for 8 ohms and 4 ohms. The 20 volt at 4 ohms graph line suggests that this receiver may not do very well with 4 ohm speakers (because distortion stays relatively high all along the graph line)."

"THD+N vs. Power Output is shown below for 8 ohms and 4 ohms. At 8 ohms, clipping (1% THD+N) occurred at 115 watts output, while at 4 ohms, clipping occurred at 140 watts output. There is not much difference in output between the two impedance loads, so I say again that this receiver should probably be limited to use with 8 ohm speakers."

Note: The above quotes were based on only 2 channels driven and not all channels driven!

Full review here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processor-and-receiver-reviews/receivers/denon-avr-1909-7.1-a/v-receiver.html

I say again, just be careful of the speaker you buy (read speaker reviews to see how often it drifts into the 4 ohm range and ignore the manufacturer nominal impedance as it may be aggressive).

Yes, the single most important factor when buying an amp is the true power capability. Modern amplifiers (non-junk ones) are so good that you really can't hear the difference so long as the amp has enough power to handle the job. I'm thinking about getting an Emotiva XPA-2 to drive my fron speakers or perhaps an XPA-3 to drive the fronts and center (Studio 1's and CC-690).


Brian

I run a xpa-2 with my studio 60's and to be honest, it's way overkill. Even at absolutely insane volume. I can get the meters to maybe go to half maybe :) lol

I'm gonna go check out some 100's on saturday !!

I run a xpa-2 with my studio 60's and to be honest, it's way overkill. Even at absolutely insane volume. I can get the meters to maybe go to half maybe :) lol

I'm gonna go check out some 100's on saturday !!


Yep, the XPA-2 would indeed be overkill with the 60's but darn near perfect for the 100's -- that's what I'm leaning towards.

Now I'll just have to buy or build a new unit to house it! :(


Brian

Looking to purchase the new Studio v.5 100's, 690 center, and ADP590 surrounds for my HT but will my Pioneer SC-07 receiver be enough to power these speakers?

Also how are these speakers when listening to music? I need a system that can do double duty as my Home theatre and for 2 channel critical listening.

I listened to a pair of Studio 40 v4s against a set of Studio 20 v5s the other night and I liked to 40s better. I ended up buying them for 1000.00. I have a NAD 7100 at home and it powers the speakers very well. I am considering a RXV 3900 or a Pioneer Elite SC-05. I hope either one will give me NAD-like clean power levels.

Looking to purchase the new Studio v.5 100's, 690 center, and ADP590 surrounds for my HT but will my Pioneer SC-07 receiver be enough to power these speakers?

Also how are these speakers when listening to music? I need a system that can do double duty as my Home theatre and for 2 channel critical listening.

According to Gene of Audioholics, anything close to 4 ohm loads will be a problem:

"Driving 4-ohm loads was an entirely different story. The SC-07 simply fell apart when running full bandwidth (20Hz to 20kHz) continuous power measurements. As I tested at frequencies above 5kHz with only 1 channel driven, the internal cooling fan would instantly come on right before the receiver would go into gross distortion and shut down at levels above 100 watts. With two-channels driven, I was able to squeeze out a clean 150wpc at less than 0.5% THD. Anything higher would again run the amps into gross distortion and shut off the receiver. I was a bit perplexed in how the receiver managed to better cope with 2 channels driven over 1 and could only surmise that it had something to do with symmetrical load balancing on the power supply. How this receiver was awarded the THX Ultra2 rating was a bit perplexing to me."

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-sc-07/sc-07-measurements-and-analysis

Not too much is known about v5 as not too many are in the wild yet.

Looks like I have a "separates convert". Welcome to a new world of sound!
:D Yes it makes a huge difference!

If he is willing to let you test the Anthem for free you owe it to yourself to try it.

I took your advice and borrowed the anthem too. It's an Anthem MCA50. I only tried the anthem out for about ten minutes or so and I plan on trying it out more tonight, but from what I can tell it is more powerful. For example, my same song that I played that had distortion with just the denon at -5 and then sounded awesome with the B&K at -10, well now it sounds awesome at -15. I went down to -10 and my ears started hurting. I think it definitely has more power. I am just not sure if I need the extra power, but if it also makes a difference at lower volumes, it's worth it. So I just have to test it out. Price wise the Anthem is 4 times as expensive for the 5 channel, or a little over twice as much for the 3 channel over the B&K.

I have it monowired whereas the b&k was biamped. So I'm only using 3 of the channels.

What do you think between the two amps?

Isn't the MCA 50 only rated as 180w?

I just looked on their website and sure enough it says 250W x1 or 180 x all. So I'm guessing I'm only getting 180..

The b&k is 125Wx6 and biamping them I'm getting 250w, although the tweeter is getting more than it needs and the mid bass, not enough, so I wonder how close it comes to the 180 split?

I just looked on their website and sure enough it says 250W x1 or 180 x all. So I'm guessing I'm only getting 180..

The b&k is 125Wx6 and biamping them I'm getting 250w, although the tweeter is getting more than it needs and the mid bass, not enough, so I wonder how close it comes to the 180 split?

If money is no object, then I'd go with the Anthems (they are owned by Paradigm). I really don't think you could go wrong with either.

If you were to decide based on power reserves, check the 8 ohm rating vs the 4 ohm rating. An amp is usually quite good if the 4 ohm rating is about double the 8 ohm rating.

Warpdrv & TRT:

Thanks for the comments.

What on earth happened to those Signature 8's? on Ebay. That's just really sad. I can't tell any of the circumstances surrounding that situation from the Ebay ad, but surely there could have been some recourse that the seller had, but he does state that these are 3 year old speakers. hmmm

Anway, I had no intention of getting 7 amps. Yikes! With respect to Emotiva, I had considered three (3) of the XPA-1 Monoblocks for my left, center and right speakers (the S8's and the C5 Signatures) and then getting a 5-channel amp for the surrounds. I can't even imagine having a 500 wpc monoblock powering one of the ADP3 surrounds.

I've have narrowed my choice down between the Emotiva amps and D-Sonic. My primary concern regarding sound quality is for the front 3 speakers of my system, and primarily the center channel because 90% of a a movie comes out of that speaker and it's responsible for dialog, music, dyanmics, bass, etc, so it has the biggest responsibility for making or breaking a movie's sound. That's why I would definitely put the best sounding amp on that speaker. Surrounds rarely come into play on most, so I would be more open to a multi-channel amp that doesn't need to be "audiophile" quality just for sound effects and my surround speakers are the size of shoeboxes anyway.

Warpdrv - you've been really helpful over the past few months with your advice and comments and I know it's taken a while for it to sink in, but I am seeing your viewpoint much clearer lately, so I appreciate your patience!

I just looked on their website and sure enough it says 250W x1 or 180 x all. So I'm guessing I'm only getting 180..

The b&k is 125Wx6 and biamping them I'm getting 250w, although the tweeter is getting more than it needs and the mid bass, not enough, so I wonder how close it comes to the 180 split?

No your not doubling your power you are supplying the same amount 125 to
the tweeter and 125 to the woofer you can't produce more than the amp is
designed to output. Some amps have the ability to bridge but you are amplifying an amplified signal to the effect of adding some distortion. The best
bet is to get the amp that does the job and more importantly does not color
the sound while delivering more power as the impedance dips.

I read the entire review and according to Gene he would still recommend this receiver to drive a musical 4ohm load as he was using a continual test tone at 4 ohms which caused the issue.

Mind you I will probably purchase a Anthem or Emotiva multichannel amp in the future but for now the SC-07 should be sufficient I would think. If not I will be spending more of the wife's money I guess...lol

According to Gene of Audioholics, anything close to 4 ohm loads will be a problem:

"Driving 4-ohm loads was an entirely different story. The SC-07 simply fell apart when running full bandwidth (20Hz to 20kHz) continuous power measurements. As I tested at frequencies above 5kHz with only 1 channel driven, the internal cooling fan would instantly come on right before the receiver would go into gross distortion and shut down at levels above 100 watts. With two-channels driven, I was able to squeeze out a clean 150wpc at less than 0.5% THD. Anything higher would again run the amps into gross distortion and shut off the receiver. I was a bit perplexed in how the receiver managed to better cope with 2 channels driven over 1 and could only surmise that it had something to do with symmetrical load balancing on the power supply. How this receiver was awarded the THX Ultra2 rating was a bit perplexing to me."

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-sc-07/sc-07-measurements-and-analysis

Not too much is known about v5 as not too many are in the wild yet.

If money is no object, then I'd go with the Anthems (they are owned by Paradigm). I really don't think you could go wrong with either.

If you were to decide based on power reserves, check the 8 ohm rating vs the 4 ohm rating. An amp is usually quite good if the 4 ohm rating is about double the 8 ohm rating.


Money is always an object, but not if it sacrifices quality while still being reasonable. I also checked the ohms and the ratio on both of them is 1.5x - 4ohms/8ohms.

If I went with the Anthem, would there be any use for the 5 channel over the 3 channel, for instance if I ever upgraded my LCR (the 40's say max power is 180 watts) maybe biamping the front right and lefts or biamping the center etc and letting the denon do the 4 surrounds?

I will listen to them both more in detail tonight. Thanks for the advice.

No your not doubling your power you are supplying the same amount 125 to
the tweeter and 125 to the woofer you can't produce more than the amp is
designed to output. Some amps have the ability to bridge but you are amplifying an amplified signal to the effect of adding some distortion. The best
bet is to get the amp that does the job and more importantly does not color
the sound while delivering more power as the impedance dips.

That makes sense, thanks.

davekro -

I have Studio 40sv3, a CC-590v4 (SA-10 in-ceiling surrounds) and a Denon 2807 AVR. I also have an Odyssey Stratos HT-3 that's back with the maker being looked at. With or without the separate amp the speaker combo sounds great. Audyssey sets all of them to Large, even the surrounds. For HT I re-set them to small with 80hz crossover. When I listen to 2 channel (I have a lot of vinyl) I run the 40's Large with no sub.

Ok so, I also have a pair of Studio 20s in another room. I think they're great too. It's just a classic speaker. You'll just get a bit more bass with the 40s. You're in a no lose situation. Enjoy.

How many watts/ channel is your 2807? When listening to an action movie loud, what is an average volume level? -40, -30, -20 or more?
Thanks.

With all the Amo talk in this thread recently and never having heard any problems with my 130w Onkyo 805 and the mixed opinions you hear on if an amp makes a difference or not it is just very hard to justify the additional expense...

so what if you can watch at -15db on your reciever or -5db? If you get the same sound and have headroom then why does the added headroom matter? Why drive a Ferrari in a retirement community with a 25 mph speed limit?

With all the Amo talk in this thread recently and never having heard any problems with my 130w Onkyo 805 and the mixed opinions you hear on if an amp makes a difference or not it is just very hard to justify the additional expense...

so what if you can watch at -15db on your reciever or -5db? If you get the same sound and have headroom then why does the added headroom matter? Why drive a Ferrari in a retirement community with a 25 mph speed limit?

The 805 is one of the few exceptions if you look at the test bench it meets
its advertised output in the 5.1 and pumps out more as impedance dips
there are few out there left that do but for the most that advertise 100 to 140
watts a channel when it comes to real world test some have half that with
5.1 playing at 20hz to 20khz while staying under .1 % distortion. If you suspect the amp section is weak it might put peoples mine to rest looking
up their bench results most of the popular ones are listed.

Yes, the single most important factor when buying an amp is the true power capability. Modern amplifiers (non-junk ones) are so good that you really can't hear the difference so long as the amp has enough power to handle the job. I'm thinking about getting an Emotiva XPA-2 to drive my fron speakers or perhaps an XPA-3 to drive the fronts and center (Studio 1's and CC-690).


Brian

I will not take offense, but I never know what people mean when they say junk, low end, etc amps. I'd guess the Denon 1909 90w/ch would fall into your classification of a junk or low end amp??

I am trying to get specific opinions on this amp (Denon 1909), driving Paradigm Studio 20's or 40's, a CC-590 ctr, and four surrounds surrounds to be upgraded at a later date). I understand that I am not in the big leagues with my modest system, but appreciate any specific opinions on the power match of the Paradigm's with the 1909 running 7.1. As I say, I will not take offense, but addressing my system is what I am looking for, not reading I should go big or don't bother.
Thanks for any specific insights if you have them

I will not take offense, but I never know what people mean when they say junk, low end, etc amps. I'd guess the Denon 1909 90w/ch would fall into your classification of a junk or low end amp??

I am trying to get specific opinions on this amp (Denon 1909), driving Paradigm Studio 20's or 40's, a CC-590 ctr, and four surrounds surrounds to be upgraded at a later date). I understand that I am not in the big leagues with my modest system, but appreciate any specific opinions on the power match of the Paradigm's with the 1909 running 7.1. As I say, I will not take offense, but addressing my system is what I am looking for, not reading I should go big or don't bother.
Thanks for any specific insights if you have them

By junk I mean the kind of stuff that you might find cheap at Wal*Mart. For the most part the area that gets cheated most is the power supply. At low power levels it would be hard to tell the difference with even a cheap (junk) amp. As power levels increase the difference between a good amp and junk becomes obvious -- yes obvious.

The major difference between a good amp and a really good or great amp is once again the power supply but you'd have to be using a good deal of power to hear any difference. Once again, so long as the amps are not being overdriven and are EQ'd the same you should not be able to tell the difference between a $250 amp and a $5000 amp. But, turn the HT system up to an average power of 5W with transients of, say, 200W and the $250 amp will usually fail relative to the $5000 amp assuming the more expensive amp is able to put out the power and has the PS to do so as it should.

As I look at the Emotiva XPA-2, for example, the beast weighs 75 pounds with a good deal of that being the transformer (toroidal) and the rest of the PS, and while weight alone means nothing the fact that the PS is as beafy as it is suggests it should handle transients without any problem.


Brian

Money is always an object, but not if it sacrifices quality while still being reasonable. I also checked the ohms and the ratio on both of them is 1.5x - 4ohms/8ohms.

If I went with the Anthem, would there be any use for the 5 channel over the 3 channel, for instance if I ever upgraded my LCR (the 40's say max power is 180 watts) maybe biamping the front right and lefts or biamping the center etc and letting the denon do the 4 surrounds?

I will listen to them both more in detail tonight. Thanks for the advice.

A 5 channel amp is almost necessary if you enjoy multichannel music like SACD/DVD-A/BD-Audio, etc.

Not a bad idea to use the Denon to power the rears, especially if it only has 2 or 4 channel duty.

How many watts/ channel is your 2807? When listening to an action movie loud, what is an average volume level? -40, -30, -20 or more?
Thanks.

110 watts/channel. Average volume level probably -25 to -20 when everyone's awake. Personally I think you're going to be fine. That's just me.

110 watts/channel. Average volume level probably -25 to -20 when everyone's awake. Personally I think you're going to be fine. That's just me.

Wow... What did you set as your reference level? I did 75db at -5 and watch movies as -10 to 0.

either my reciever is underpowered or different brands measure volume very differently.

By junk I mean the kind of stuff that you might find cheap at Wal*Mart. For the most part the area that gets cheated most is the power supply. At low power levels it would be hard to tell the difference with even a cheap (junk) amp. As power levels increase the difference between a good amp and junk becomes obvious -- yes obvious.

The major difference between a good amp and a really good or great amp is once again the power supply but you'd have to be using a good deal of power to hear any difference. Once again, so long as the amps are not being overdriven and are EQ'd the same you should not be able to tell the difference between a $250 amp and a $5000 amp. But, turn the HT system up to an average power of 5W with transients of, say, 200W and the $250 amp will usually fail relative to the $5000 amp assuming the more expensive amp is able to put out the power and has the PS to do so as it should.

As I look at the Emotiva XPA-2, for example, the beast weighs 75 pounds with a good deal of that being the transformer (toroidal) and the rest of the PS, and while weight alone means nothing the fact that the PS is as beafy as it is suggests it should handle transients without any problem.


Brian

Brian,
So do you happen to know if the Denon 1909 90w/ch, has enough clean power to drive the Paradigm Studio 40's, CC-590, plus four other (≈ 90dB) surrounds. The example of the Emotiva amp does not help with my question as I do not have one, nor am I familiar with it or many other amps. I'm just looking for specific info on my specific AVR, if you happen to know it. If not that is OK, of course. General discussions of better power supplies in various amps is useless to me.
Thanks, Dave

110 watts/channel. Average volume level probably -25 to -20 when everyone's awake. Personally I think you're going to be fine. That's just me.

Thanks for your input. I just get that OCD on trying to 'be sure' before making a significant (to me) $ purchase that I hope to be pleased with for a long time to come. :)

davekro, Secrets recently did a review on your 1909 receiver. Here's a sample from the benchmark:

"THD+N vs. Frequency is shown below for 8 ohms and 4 ohms. The 20 volt at 4 ohms graph line suggests that this receiver may not do very well with 4 ohm speakers (because distortion stays relatively high all along the graph line)."

"THD+N vs. Power Output is shown below for 8 ohms and 4 ohms. At 8 ohms, clipping (1% THD+N) occurred at 115 watts output, while at 4 ohms, clipping occurred at 140 watts output. There is not much difference in output between the two impedance loads, so I say again that this receiver should probably be limited to use with 8 ohm speakers."

Note: The above quotes were based on only 2 channels driven and not all channels driven!

Full review here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processor-and-receiver-reviews/receivers/denon-avr-1909-7.1-a/v-receiver.html

I say again, just be careful of the speaker you buy (read speaker reviews to see how often it drifts into the 4 ohm range and ignore the manufacturer nominal impedance as it may be aggressive).

Dave, wasn't my link to the Secrets review of the 1909 specific enough for you? :confused:

I think most of us are telling you that if you have your heart set on those specific Paradigms, you may want to upgrade your receiver or buy a dedicated amp and use your existing receiver as a prepro.

Wow... What did you set as your reference level? I did 75db at -5 and watch movies as -10 to 0.

either my reciever is underpowered or different brands measure volume very differently.
Are you sure you mean 75db? Measured with an SPL meter at 1M from the speaker(s) (one at a time)? Reference level is 120dB.

Brian,
So do you happen to know if the Denon 1909 90w/ch, has enough clean power to drive the Paradigm Studio 40's, CC-590, plus four other (≈ 90dB) surrounds. The example of the Emotiva amp does not help with my question as I do not have one, nor am I familiar with it or many other amps. I'm just looking for specific info on my specific AVR, if you happen to know it. If not that is OK, of course. General discussions of better power supplies in various amps is useless to me.
Thanks, Dave

Read my post about it, I have the same speakers and a better denon (3808) and it wasn't powerful enough for higher volumes. At lower volumes it is fine and depending on your room size, room acoustics etc, it may be enough if you don't plan to having it loud. But from what I understand, you risk damaging the speakers at higher volumes with an amp that can't drive them properly.

I was content with just my denon knowing I just couldn't play it very loud...until I added a power amp and it was like night and day for me. Now going to a more powerful amp from that one was only a tiny increase. I guess the product of diminishing returns. When I went to my dealer with the problem, I was actually thinking of going to the studio 100's because I told him my 40's "don't get very loud" and I wanted better. Now with my amp and my 40's, I feel like I'm at a concert right next the big JBL's:D My newbie opinion is the 1909 isn't powerful enough to open those speakers up like they were made to do. :)

I'm just looking for specific info on my specific AVR, if you happen to know it. If not that is OK, of course. General discussions of better power supplies in various amps is useless to me.

I'm repeating my prior post (in italics):
Home Theater mag reviewed the Denon AVR-2105 (I use this as a comparison because it is quoted from Denon as 90 watts x 7, the same as the 1909). In their lab measurement they tested it as 67.8 watts, 0.1% distortion 5 channels driven. 105.6 watts, 0.1% distortion into two channels.

So, according the the link I posted above, into 88db speakers, when watching movies in 5 channels, and sitting 10 feet away, you should get 103.6 db. But over 106 db if the speakers are within 4' of a wall.

For stereo, you should get 101 db at 10 feet away and 105db if the speakers are withing 4' of a wall.

CONCLUSION: Your Denon AVR 1909 will be fantastic with Paradigm speakers.

EWL5 is correct, the Paradigms drop into the 4 range a lot, but so do ALL 8 ohm speakers. In reality, the Paradigms are probably a nominal 6 ohm speaker, and while I 100% agree with EWL5 about better quality amps, your Denon 1909 will be just fine with the Paradigm speakers. While I can't make any guarantees, I'd be willing to bet your Denon will never shutdown trying to drive them, and will get as loud as you want.

With that said, you may notice at louder volume levels the Denon won't have the dynamic range that a better amp will. IMO - get the Paradigms, enjoy them, and when ready buy a better amp.

Brian,
So do you happen to know if the Denon 1909 90w/ch, has enough clean power to drive the Paradigm Studio 40's, CC-590, plus four other (≈ 90dB) surrounds. The example of the Emotiva amp does not help with my question as I do not have one, nor am I familiar with it or many other amps. I'm just looking for specific info on my specific AVR, if you happen to know it. If not that is OK, of course. General discussions of better power supplies in various amps is useless to me.
Thanks, Dave

It will be way underpowered for those speakers. I have a 1909, and it doesn't have anything close to enough power to drive the Studios.

Remember that the resistance on the speakers is not constant, and drops very low (below 4 ohms) during normal movie and music playback. You need a lot of consistent clean power for it to sound right.

(There's also a chance you damage your speakers from clipping with an underpowered amp, but I wouldn't worry about that too much.)

Just get a much better amp, and use the 1909 as a pre-pro. Until you get bitten by the upgrade bug again.

I am a bit confused by something. I will be using the Yamaha 663 for the studio 100's/690 or another 100/20's for surround. Eventually I plan on adding the XPA5 amp.

Once an amp is in the mix, what difference the pre/pro make? Why would I need to change out the 663 for a different receiver if all the power is coming from the amp anyway? Some may process a bit different for slightly different sound, but why spend $600 vs. $2000 on a pre/pro if an amp will be used anyway? I know I don't understand it all which is why I'm asking. Tried looking it up but didn't really come up w/ anything.

I am a bit confused by something. I will be using the Yamaha 663 for the studio 100's/690 or another 100/20's for surround. Eventually I plan on adding the XPA5 amp.

Once an amp is in the mix, what difference the pre/pro make? Why would I need to change out the 663 for a different receiver if all the power is coming from the amp anyway? Some may process a bit different for slightly different sound, but why spend $600 vs. $2000 on a pre/pro if an amp will be used anyway? I know I don't understand it all which is why I'm asking. Tried looking it up but didn't really come up w/ anything.
Get the amp asap the 100's will be damaged if you crank the volume at all
with the 663 test benched it was at 45wpc 5.1 driven no where safe enough
for 100's and almost no headroom with very poor 4ohm rating other than that
adding the amp to it might surprise you since it has a good pre-amp.

I am a bit confused by something. I will be using the Yamaha 663 for the studio 100's/690 or another 100/20's for surround. Eventually I plan on adding the XPA5 amp.

Once an amp is in the mix, what difference the pre/pro make? Why would I need to change out the 663 for a different receiver if all the power is coming from the amp anyway? Some may process a bit different for slightly different sound, but why spend $600 vs. $2000 on a pre/pro if an amp will be used anyway? I know I don't understand it all which is why I'm asking. Tried looking it up but didn't really come up w/ anything.

The only reason to get a prepro is to have the latest decoders, processing, room EQ, etc. and also less noise/interference that is normally associated with an all in one unit (receiver).

Your 663 has the latest decoders so an amp for more power is all you need. Note that a dedicated prepro will normally have more than the 2 HDMI inputs on your receiver and better video processing.

All this Denon talk has me wondering....

I'm looking to get into some Paradigm Studio's Probably something like the CC-590 and Studio 40's

Am I safe with my Denon 3808CI? 130Wx7 discrete amps 0.05THD

Room isn't that l big at all so volume on the current setup gets to about -30 on the volume.

Input appreciated!

It will be way underpowered for those speakers. I have a 1909, and it doesn't have anything close to enough power to drive the Studios.

Remember that the resistance on the speakers is not constant, and drops very low (below 4 ohms) during normal movie and music playback. You need a lot of consistent clean power for it to sound right.

(There's also a chance you damage your speakers from clipping with an underpowered amp, but I wouldn't worry about that too much.)

Just get a much better amp, and use the 1909 as a pre-pro. Until you get bitten by the upgrade bug again.

+1

A good rule of thumb is if your receiver almost cost as much as ONE of the speakers you're considering, it's time to:

1) Buy an amp
2) Buy a better receiver
3) Consider an easier to drive speaker

I don't want to read any sob stories when your receiver clips and/or you blow a tweeter.

All this Denon talk has me wondering....

I'm looking to get into some Paradigm Studio's Probably something like the CC-590 and Studio 40's

Am I safe with my Denon 3808CI? 130Wx7 discrete amps 0.05THD

Room isn't that l big at all so volume on the current setup gets to about -30 on the volume.

Input appreciated!

Safely it would be the 4xxx and up series because of the dip in impedance or
add an amp if the lower cost model.

Let me say this first to get it out of the way. I have read through pretty much all the pages and used the search function to try and find some insight.

So here is my dilema. I went and listened to the Atom monitors with a cc-190 center and really liked what I heard. Should I consider stepping up to the 290 since I will most likely move the Atoms to the rear and get floor standers for the front stage. (not sure which ones yet) My budget is +/- $600. so I am just looking at the front stage now. And will fill in as funds become available. Are the Atoms a good fit with the 290? I will be going back into to the dealer tomorrow to actually test it out and give it a little bit more of a critical ear but I really liked what I heard out of the Atoms for such a small speaker. Is there any other speakers in the Paradigm family that I should consider in my budget? If I remember correctly they quoted me $299 for the Atoms and $269 for the 190.
I will be running these with an Onkyo 606 for mostly movies and a little gaming. Thanks in advance!!

+1

A good rule of thumb is if your receiver almost cost as much as ONE of the speakers you're considering, it's time to:

1) Buy an amp
2) Buy a better receiver
3) Consider an easier to drive speaker

I don't want to read any sob stories when your receiver clips and/or you blow a tweeter.


Thanks for the help guys!

So you're saying if the speaker is $1500, I need a receiver that cost at least MORE than $1500? I don't wanna type any sob stories either, lol.

So will the 663 w/ XPA5 not be enough then?

Dave, wasn't my link to the Secrets review of the 1909 specific enough for you? :confused:

I think most of us are telling you that if you have your heart set on those specific Paradigms, you may want to upgrade your receiver or buy a dedicated amp and use your existing receiver as a prepro.

First my sincere appreciation for everyone's great info, patience with my long winded posts and my (slowly improving) lack of AV knowledge.
That article mentioned: "This leads me to a disappointment I had in the Denon. I always hope to find pre-amp outputs to ease the path to upgrade my amplification"

So am I out of luck to upgrade by adding an additional amp? Or is there a workaround you have in mind?

This discussion has me leaning more to the Axiom system(s) I just started researching recently too. They are 3dB (fronts) and 5db (on 6 ohm ctr) more sensitive. With a much lower price tag and still very good ratings, this may be my better path until economic times are improved where I can justify dropping more money into this luxury of a hobby.

You guys are really helping me work through my levels of the onion learning process, painful as that may be for you guys... :eek:

Thanks for the help guys!

So you're saying if the speaker is $1500, I need a receiver that cost at least MORE than $1500? I don't wanna type any sob stories either, lol.

So will the 663 w/ XPA5 not be enough then?

Yes, that s exactly what I'm saying. I was driving just a stereo pair of v4 20's using my $2000 Rotel receiver with an honest 100w/channel (7 channel) and I didn't hear the speakers open up! A dedicated amp makes all the difference if your speakers are of high caliber.

You should be fine once you get the XPA5.

Safely it would be the 4xxx and up series because of the dip in impedance or
add an amp if the lower cost model.

Looking at the Denon Website and the Denon Forums on AVS, the only difference Power-wise in the 3808 and the 4308 is the bump from 130x7 to 140x7 and a bigger power supply.....both have the same feature of 'Low Impedance Drive Capabiliity'.

So if I have a Denon 3808, it's not recommended I get any Studio Paradigm speakers? Even Studio 20 or 40's?

If that's the concencious....and I moved the 3808 to a pre/pro role, what's a good seperate amp that would match well with the Studios in a 5.1 in a small/medium room?

Suggestions?

Hello all,
I am looking at the paradigm monitor series, yet I don't see alot of information on them here but alot of Studio information. I know from reading that the Studios are a big step up from the Monitors, but how are the monitors for the price.
I am looking at the Monitor 7's fronts, Atoms or Minis or maybe even ADP 190s (if I can afford it) for rears and probably a CC190 (the cc290 may be too big and is almost twice the price, Why??). Is that a decent setup or are there better options out there in that price range.
If the wife permits I may just spend the money on 3 fronts and then wait to get rears. My budget is $1200. Thanks.

Hello all,
I am looking at the paradigm monitor series, yet I don't see alot of information on them here but alot of Studio information. I know from reading that the Studios are a big step up from the Monitors, but how are the monitors for the price.
I am looking at the Monitor 7's fronts, Atoms or Minis or maybe even ADP 190s (if I can afford it) for rears and probably a CC190. Is that a decent setup or are there better options out there in that price range.

I listened to the Atoms w/ the 190 and adp190s adn the sounded great for their size. I am actually looking at pretty much the same setup minus the ADP 190s (room and $$ constraints) but may step up to the cc290 if I can get some feed back on it.
Have you listened to this setup? If not I suggest you give it a test drive!!!!

+1

A good rule of thumb is if your receiver almost cost as much as ONE of the speakers you're considering, it's time to:

1) Buy an amp
2) Buy a better receiver
3) Consider an easier to drive speaker

I don't want to read any sob stories when your receiver clips and/or you blow a tweeter.

That puts it in very clear and logical language. I can see my using my (unfortunately) recently purchased $650 list 1909 to power ≈ $2,000 worth of (new soon) fronts, not to mention later upgrading rears to equivalent quality would put the cost comparison much further out of whack.

Again, this tilts me even harder towards a more budget speaker system until the cash flow improves. I am now looking hard at the Axiom line of spkrs.
Fronts- M60 v2 floorstanding, 93dB,
(2) 6 1/2" bass......... 80Hz sub X-over point to 200Hz
(1) 5 1/4" mid/bass... 200-2,000 Hz
(1) 1" tweeter........... 2,000 - 22,000Hz

Center- VP150 v2
(3) 5 1/4" mid/bass... 80 - 2,700Hz
(2) 1" tweeter........... 2,700 - 22,000hZ
(tweeters are on outside of the three mid/bass speakers)

This Axiom set up would run a bit less than a 25% discounted v.4 Paradigm Studio 20/ CC-590 set up. I guessing with my my very large great room (31'l x 23'w) that the floor standing speakers would be better at filling the room more than the 20's, even though Audyssey (or me) WILL set all speakers to 'Small', 80hz X-over. My Paradym Servo 15 (plus two small 10") sub(s) will more than cover the <80Hz signal.
Does that sound lilke a reasonable assumption?

Have you listened to this setup? If not I suggest you give it a test drive!!!!

I have not in about 2 years but I am thinking about heading to a dealer a ways away to check it out.

I am a bit confused by something. I will be using the Yamaha 663 for the studio 100's/690 or another 100/20's for surround. Eventually I plan on adding the XPA5 amp.

Once an amp is in the mix, what difference the pre/pro make? Why would I need to change out the 663 for a different receiver if all the power is coming from the amp anyway? Some may process a bit different for slightly different sound, but why spend $600 vs. $2000 on a pre/pro if an amp will be used anyway? I know I don't understand it all which is why I'm asking. Tried looking it up but didn't really come up w/ anything.

The amp is just about power. Once you get an amp that provides clean, consistent power, and enough of it, you're good there. The amp will have very little impact on sound once you cross over that line (i.e. enough clean, consistent power).

The pre-pro is all about sound. Onkyo's sound is different from Denon's sound different is from Anthem's sound is different from (etc., etc.).

The pre-pro has the second most significant impact on sound (the first being the speakers, the third being room acoustics and treatments). And you can hear a drastic difference from a mediocre pre-pro to a high-end pre-pro.

Anyway, I think you get the point. The pre-pro is critical to the overall sound experience, and replacing it should absolutely be on your list of upgrades, once you have good speakers and sufficient amplification.

Looking at the Denon Website and the Denon Forums on AVS, the only difference Power-wise in the 3808 and the 4308 is the bump from 130x7 to 140x7 and a bigger power supply.....both have the same feature of 'Low Impedance Drive Capabiliity'.

So if I have a Denon 3808, it's not recommended I get any Studio Paradigm speakers? Even Studio 20 or 40's?

If that's the concencious....and I moved the 3808 to a pre/pro role, what's a good seperate amp that would match well with the Studios in a 5.1 in a small/medium room?

Suggestions?

Anthem A5 or P5 is always a good choice. Or any of the IcePower-based amps.

Thanks for the help guys!

So you're saying if the speaker is $1500, I need a receiver that cost at least MORE than $1500? I don't wanna type any sob stories either, lol.

So will the 663 w/ XPA5 not be enough then?Like all rules, be careful. I just read a review of a $2,000 Sony AVR and with five channels driven it couldn't push more than 43 watts/channel - significantly LESS that the Denon 1909.

How is the mini switch wired on a servo 15 A. Thanks

First my sincere appreciation for everyone's great info, patience with my long winded posts and my (slowly improving) lack of AV knowledge.
That article mentioned: "This leads me to a disappointment I had in the Denon. I always hope to find pre-amp outputs to ease the path to upgrade my amplification"

So am I out of luck to upgrade by adding an additional amp? Or is there a workaround you have in mind?

This discussion has me leaning more to the Axiom system(s) I just started researching recently too. They are 3dB (fronts) and 5db (on 6 ohm ctr) more sensitive. With a much lower price tag and still very good ratings, this may be my better path until economic times are improved where I can justify dropping more money into this luxury of a hobby.

You guys are really helping me work through my levels of the onion learning process, painful as that may be for you guys... :eek:

That's too bad! A new amp will not help you as you won't be able to connect the 1909 to the amp!

The Axioms may be the answer. I'm looking at some Polk Audio RTi speakers myself. Have you seen those?

Hello all,
I am looking at the paradigm monitor series, yet I don't see alot of information on them here but alot of Studio information. I know from reading that the Studios are a big step up from the Monitors, but how are the monitors for the price.
I am looking at the Monitor 7's fronts, Atoms or Minis or maybe even ADP 190s (if I can afford it) for rears and probably a CC190 (the cc290 may be too big and is almost twice the price, Why??). Is that a decent setup or are there better options out there in that price range.
If the wife permits I may just spend the money on 3 fronts and then wait to get rears. My budget is $1200. Thanks.

Have you considered the Titan monitors instead of the Monitor 7's? They should be cheaper and according to the specs they go lower (39 hz vs 41 hz) than the 7's. The Titans should be a good match for the CC190, too.

I'm looking at some Polk Audio RTi speakers myself. Have you seen those?

I had a chance to listen to some RTiA7's before Sound Advice (aka Tweeter) closed down and I have to say I was really impressed. Really nice, smooth, laid back sound, impressive bass response, and they were GORGEOUS to look at.

I ended up buying the Monitor 9's instead, though. They were actually cheaper than the Polks by about $200/pr, heh.

Be careful on the volume control and you can get the speakers you like its when you
crank up the volume and the rec/amp has no more headroom a 38xx will drive them
just not at high levels safely. I ran my 100's off of a Sony es555 for a year before it
was replaced with an Integra 10.5 then I was able to enjoy louder dynamics safely.
Sony's as a rule don't like 4 ohm loads but it will work as other receivers will work
but we all get carried away with the volume thats when underpowered eq damage
things like tweeters.

Seems like many like the XPA-5....is the only place to get it through the manufacturers website? Or where do people pick them up?

Emotiva - they are an online buy direct company....

Either there or on the used market...

I A/B tested the B&K with the Anthem all last night and some today and I've come to the conclusion that I like the Anthem better. There is more headroom, but more importantly I can sense a little better sound quality, especially male deep voices. Maybe I like it more because I know it's more watts and it's all psychological, but as long as it sounds better to me that's all that matters. My dealer did say the Anthems are one of the best amps you can get matched to a paradigm since they are made by the same company. So I bought the MCA50:)

I also picked up a pair of ADP-590's for the surrounds to replace the current atoms in place. I still have atoms for the rears and I'm not sure I would notice any difference between the studio line and the monitor line on the rears so I think I can calm my upgraditus...at least for a while!

Tonight I watched Max Payne on Blu Ray and combined with my new SVS Ultra and the new surrounds and the new Amp I am in love with my system:D

Congrats bro...

Its really fun getting your system to a point where is scares the hell out of everyone that comes over and then just puts a serious smile on your face....

Just for future ref.... don't brag to your friends, just invite them over for an audition and crank it up..... I love scaring the CR@P out of people like that..

This sounds like a lot of fun...:p

Congrats bro...

Its really fun getting your system to a point where is scares the hell out of everyone that comes over and then just puts a serious smile on your face....

Just for future ref.... don't brag to your friends, just invite them over for an audition and crank it up..... I love scaring the CR@P out of people like that..

Hello all,
I am looking at the paradigm monitor series, yet I don't see alot of information on them here but alot of Studio information. I know from reading that the Studios are a big step up from the Monitors, but how are the monitors for the price.
I am looking at the Monitor 7's fronts, Atoms or Minis or maybe even ADP 190s (if I can afford it) for rears and probably a CC190 (the cc290 may be too big and is almost twice the price, Why??). Is that a decent setup or are there better options out there in that price range.
If the wife permits I may just spend the money on 3 fronts and then wait to get rears. My budget is $1200. Thanks.

No help or thoughts??

No help or thoughts??

I briefly listened to the monitors after listening to the studio's wrong order
but that made my decision to purchase the studio's all that much sooner do
yourself a favor and audition as many in both lines before you purchase or
listen to mine or anyones advice.

Hey everyone, random question: What internet-direct speakers compete with Studio 20's? So far, all I've thought of is the Ascend Sierra-1. Seems like most manufacturers online only have bookshelf models below $500 or so; above that they go with towers.

I briefly listened to the monitors after listening to the studio's wrong order
but that made my decision to purchase the studio's all that much sooner do
yourself a favor and audition as many in both lines before you purchase or
listen to mine or anyones advice.

Hey, where did you get your Paradigms from? j/w since we only have 2 diff. people that sale them in Houston, lol.

hey, where did you get your paradigms from? J/w since we only have 2 diff. People that sale them in houston, lol.
all star audio video

Am, excuse me but what do you know about Paradigm Monitor 9 v.6?
Dealer says that there are small differences - magnetic grilles, nickel-plated screws and new crossovers.
And your reviews on difference in sound? Dealer gives 40% discount on v.5

Am, excuse me but what do you know about Paradigm Monitor 9 v.6?
Dealer says that there are small differences - magnetic grilles, nickel-plated screws and new crossovers.
And your reviews on difference in sound? Dealer gives 40% discount on v.5

Thats a good discount but you need to take your favorite piece of music and
listen to both if the difference is not enough then the 40% should decide.

Am, excuse me but what do you know about Paradigm Monitor 9 v.6?
Dealer says that there are small differences - magnetic grilles, nickel-plated screws and new crossovers.
And your reviews on difference in sound? Dealer gives 40% discount on v.5I want to say new finishes as well.

No help or thoughts??

I have the Monitor 7's, and the CC-290 upfront and I love how they sound. If you paired the CC-190 w/ the 7's, I believe it would be underpowered. You may be better off with the Titans, or Mini Monitors if you don't have the room, or buget for the CC-290. As for rears I have the Atoms, and they are more then enough for surrounds.

I couldn't help myself today but wonder what the studio 100's would be like compared to my 40's v4 and cc 570 v3 center that I currently have. I was also concerned about the timbre matching of the center and the 40's before and now that I went to an AT screen on my build I figured three of the same speaker would be awesome.

So I went in and tried out the new 100's v5's and I was in awe with the amount of bass and mid range clarity. It seems when I played rock type of songs, my 40's sounded a little muffled (still very good though) by themselves with nothing to compare it to, and when compared to the 100's it was night and day difference. My studio 40's are awesome don't get me wrong, but the 100's are better to me.

So I bought 3 new Studio 100's to use as my new LCR:D:D

Pic of one of them in my temp setup until my real theater is ready (hopefully about 3 weeks!)
http://www.uncoverthenet.com/shawn/theater/studios1.jpg

I paid more than I wanted to because they are so new, but I was able to get them for $1250 each. I know I could have bought used ones from Audiogon, but my dealer is so great to me by lending me thousands of dollars worth of equipment to try out on just my word that I felt it was a good deal regardless. He had 2 in stock and had to order the third. I sold him back my studio 40's and cc center for the price I paid for them so that helped a ton. I still have them at home I'm going to bring them back when the 3rd one comes in from the order.

I think having the same speaker across the front behind the screen is gonna be awesome. Now I'm done upgrading!!!

I'm looking at some Polk Audio RTi speakers myself. Have you seen those?

I have not seen the Polks. I have seen mixed emotions on Polks here, so I did not look at them. I have no personal experience or knowledge of Polks. They may be fine speakers. It is overwhelming looking at all the variations and combinations between two brands (Paradigm & Klipsch), then I added a third (Axiom). I am afraid to look at a forth. :D
But I will look these up. ;)

Now I'm done upgrading!!!

Famous last words! My guess - next is room acoustics, then a better pre-pro.

Famous last words! My guess - next is room acoustics, then a better pre-pro.

:D Room acoustics are taken care of, linecoustic all along the front wall with 8" worth of mineral wool in the front corners for bass traps and already made some acoustic panels to place at first reflections and a couple other spots.

Now the pre pro...don't temp me!!!:p

Shawn did you go back and play all your favorite pieces of music I must have stayed
up all night when I got my 100's and I still enjoy them.

Has anyone been able to compare the Focal Chorus 836v with the Studio 100 v5? I really like the large CC of the Studio. I wish I had a dealer close by to try both. Regardless of which I buy, they will be used in a dedicated home theater with 90% movies and 10% xbox 360...Thanks

Can anyone explain the sound of Paradigm speakers?
i'm in the market for a pair of speakers [prefer floor standing] for under 700 dollars.
i was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction, on Paradigms speakers?

could i find a pair of their speakers for under 700?

Yes I did, they were swamped, it was the first time I'd seen so many people there. So they moved the 100's into their own room and locked me in so I could crank it all the way :D I brought several cds with me with varying types of music and stayed in there atleast an hour by myself and came to the conclusion that "I had to have these". When I walked out of the room I had a huge smile on my face and he knew exactly what that meant :D

I was kind of afraid that maybe it was the difference in rooms, acoustic etc, so I waited to make judgment on them until I got home and could A/B them with my 40's in my room and there I was able to really hear the difference between the two. When I popped in some rock music the 40's sounded great like I was accustomed to, but when I switched over the 100's the clarity in the different instruments, the difference in bass quality and actually being able to differentiate the deep voices from the deep instruments I knew I made I right decision. The 100's really shined.

But yes I plan to stay up all night playing with my new toys:D

would anyone be able to provide some recommendations for my previous post?

Can anyone explain the sound of Paradigm speakers?
i'm in the market for a pair of speakers [prefer floor standing] for under 700 dollars.
i was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction, on Paradigms speakers?

could i find a pair of their speakers for under 700?

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker-type-fronts.paradigm
http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker-type-fronts.paradigm
http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

would either of those places sell the speakers online?
i went to both links, but bradfordshifi didn't seem to sell online...

would either of those places sell the speakers online?
i went to both links, but bradfordshifi didn't seem to sell online...

Paradigm doesn't allow dealers to sell online.

For 700 you could get some Monitor 7's or 9's new:

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/fronts-monitorseries-series-1-2-4.paradigm

Or you could get something better used from Audiogon or possibly floor models at a dealer.

Paradigm doesn't allow dealers to sell online.

For 700 you could get some Monitor 7's or 9's new:

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/fronts-monitorseries-series-1-2-4.paradigm

Or you could get something better used from Audiogon or possibly floor models at a dealer.

but does paradigm sell online?
because, i dont live close to any dealers where i could purchase them from. at least, not to my knowledge.

but does paradigm sell online?
because, i dont live close to any dealers where i could purchase them from. at least, not to my knowledge.

Paradigm does NOT sell online at all.

Brian

No, they don't sell online.

but does paradigm sell online?
because, i dont live close to any dealers where i could purchase them from. at least, not to my knowledge.

Have you checked the dealer locator?
http://www.paradigm.com/en/dealer_locator/paradigm.php

the closest i could find was state college.
about an hour and a half drive.

i'll consider it.

would you say the 600 for a pair of new Monitor 9's is good?
they're available off of audiogon.

I have not seen the Polks. I have seen mixed emotions on Polks here, so I did not look at them. I have no personal experience or knowledge of Polks. They may be fine speakers. It is overwhelming looking at all the variations and combinations between two brands (Paradigm & Klipsch), then I added a third (Axiom). I am afraid to look at a forth. :D
But I will look these up. ;)

When I was looking to upgrade my htib speakers, I thought I wanted the Polk RTi's...until I heard Paradigms. I ended up getting Paradigms b/c they made me happy every single time I heard them. The Polks didn't do that to me. My wallet wanted the Polks b/c I could get them cheaper, but I knew I'd always regret not getting the ones that made me happy when I heard them.

That was the older version of the Polk RTi's. I have not heard the newer version. They may be much different.

I've always wanted to hear the Axioms. I've read good things about them, but have never had the opporunity to listen to them.

6th ave is a autherised dealer and you can buy online i have contacted paradigm and they did say 6th ave was authorized.
http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PRDTITANMONV5R
http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PRDMONITOR7V5C
http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PRDMONITOR7V5R

6th ave is great locally but never mail ordered

Hey guys, quick question. I have a pair of ADP 190's for my two side surrounds right now, and in the future I want to go 7.1. Would adp 190s be good for rear surrounds? Or would a front firing mini monitors be better for rear surrounds? They would be about 6.5 feet behind the second row of seats in my theater, and about 12" above the second rows ear level. Which is about 68" from the floor. Same as my side surrounds. I need to know now what Im going to put up in the future. As I need to put mounting strips up where the future speakers will be before I staple up the fabric on the walls of my theater. Thanks.

So, I am over 50% complete with my new home theater sound system.

Last week I got the Studio 100v5 fronts.

Today I picked up the Studio 20v5 rears and stands.

The stands (J-29) were a real bit*h to put together...so many screws and awkward. But in the end, I am glad it is done.

After breaking in the 100s last week as my fronts, I am now breaking in the 20s as fronts temporarily to test them out.

I am VERY happy with the sound of the 20s. The 100s are a given, but honestly the 20s sound fantastic and no one would be disappointed with them as fronts I am sure.

Now...I need to find a receiver...I won't be running an amp yet. I am going to wait til I add a good center and side surrounds. So, I am looking for a regular powerful receiver to get the job done.

My plan is...to bi-amp the fronts (using front/sidesurround) of the receiver I do get and POSSIBLY going with a "phantom" center. Not sure yet - I may get the Millenia 20 to get by as I don't have room yet for the cc-690. Any thoughts on this setup (specifically bi-amping the fronts and phantoming the center)?

My receiver choices in order of what I am leaning to are:

1) Yamaha 3900 - worried about "brightness" of sound
2) Marantz 6003 or 7002 or 8002
3) Pioneer Elite SC-05 or SC-07

I tested out the Yamaha today - albeit on Monitor speakers and it did sound a bit bright - but then again - I am used to home theatre in a box - so I am really not sure what to listen for or "how" to realize what I am hearing.

I love the Yamaha's features and the GUI and OSD was absolutely outstanding!

I am told the Marantz and Pioneers have a much richer/warmer sound but lack in the features/ease-of-use department.

Anyone else with this combo (Paradigm Studios and one of these receivers) that might be able to lend some advice?

I am taking it slowly - I want to make sure I play my cards right! ;)

corpfan1

Now...I need to find a receiver...I won't be running an amp yet. I am going to wait til I add a good center and side surrounds. So, I am looking for a regular powerful receiver to get the job done.

My plan is...to bi-amp the fronts (using front/sidesurround) of the receiver I do get and POSSIBLY going with a "phantom" center. Not sure yet - I may get the Millenia 20 to get by as I don't have room yet for the cc-690. Any thoughts on this setup (specifically bi-amping the fronts and phantoming the center)?

My receiver choices in order of what I am leaning to are:

1) Yamaha 3900 - worried about "brightness" of sound
2) Marantz 6003 or 7002 or 8002
3) Pioneer Elite SC-05 or SC-07

I tested out the Yamaha today - albeit on Monitor speakers and it did sound a bit bright - but then again - I am used to home theatre in a box - so I am really not sure what to listen for or "how" to realize what I am hearing.

I love the Yamaha's features and the GUI and OSD was absolutely outstanding!

I am told the Marantz and Pioneers have a much richer/warmer sound but lack in the features/ease-of-use department.

Bi-amping is pointless with any of those AVR's (for example, they all have only one transformer). So don't bother with that, and don't expect that you can get an underpowered amp issue resolved with passive bi-amping.

The Yammy is right on the edge of having enough power to drive the 100's. I'm pretty sure the 100's have historically had the harshest resistance curves, dipping to 2 ohms easily. That means you need enough clean consistent power from your amp to drive the speakers.

If you're only driving those 4 speakers, you'll probably be fine. But if you add more speakers, like a full-ranged center, you'll likely need more juice.

You should consider separates now - you can get inexpensive amps (like the icepower ones) with tons of clean power, and then cheap out on a pre-pro for now, and upgrade that later.

hello everyone, i just wanted to post here and ask if this was a good deal or not.

i have a pair of Monitor 9 v.3's offered to me for $650 shipped. they're new in box, is this a good deal? and can someone please explain the Paradigm sound to me?

hello everyone, i just wanted to post here and ask if this was a good deal or not.

i have a pair of Monitor 9 v.3's offered to me for $650 shipped. they're new in box, is this a good deal? and can someone please explain the Paradigm sound to me?

The monitors are on v6 now. I think you could pick up a new set of v6's for about $800. Not sure what the changes were between those versions. You said your dealer is 90 minutes away? I would take a drive and experience them for yourself :)

The monitors are on v6 now. I think you could pick up a new set of v6's for about $800. Not sure what the changes were between those versions. You said your dealer is 90 minutes away? I would take a drive and experience them for yourself :)

i'm planning on possibly going this weekend and listening to them.

even with that though, is that a good price for them?

I am looking at about 2-3 years before adding the side surrounds, quality center and amp.

I thought some of these receivers had more than 1 transformer. I might be mistaken.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Bi-amping is pointless with any of those AVR's (for example, they all have only one transformer). So don't bother with that, and don't expect that you can get an underpowered amp issue resolved with passive bi-amping.

The Yammy is right on the edge of having enough power to drive the 100's. I'm pretty sure the 100's have historically had the harshest resistance curves, dipping to 2 ohms easily. That means you need enough clean consistent power from your amp to drive the speakers.

If you're only driving those 4 speakers, you'll probably be fine. But if you add more speakers, like a full-ranged center, you'll likely need more juice.

You should consider separates now - you can get inexpensive amps (like the icepower ones) with tons of clean power, and then cheap out on a pre-pro for now, and upgrade that later.

I thought bi-amping the fronts will deliver TWICE the power to them that they would get without doing that.

At least that is what I have read and have been told at AV shops.

Bi-amping is pointless with any of those AVR's (for example, they all have only one transformer). So don't bother with that, and don't expect that you can get an underpowered amp issue resolved with passive bi-amping.

The Yammy is right on the edge of having enough power to drive the 100's. I'm pretty sure the 100's have historically had the harshest resistance curves, dipping to 2 ohms easily. That means you need enough clean consistent power from your amp to drive the speakers.

If you're only driving those 4 speakers, you'll probably be fine. But if you add more speakers, like a full-ranged center, you'll likely need more juice.

You should consider separates now - you can get inexpensive amps (like the icepower ones) with tons of clean power, and then cheap out on a pre-pro for now, and upgrade that later.

hello everyone, i just wanted to post here and ask if this was a good deal or not.

i have a pair of Monitor 9 v.3's offered to me for $650 shipped. they're new in box, is this a good deal? and can someone please explain the Paradigm sound to me?

If memory serves me correctly, v.3 Mon 9's are the v.6 Mon 11's no? Older Mon 9's have 2 x 8 inch woofers and heavy as heck compared to the new Mon 9's (which essentially are the older Monitor 7's with the smaller woofers).

I can't comment on the pricing of older gear but new in a box seems odd for older gear. Otherwise, the Mon 9's are pretty fantastic at their retail price point, let alone at $650. Just my opinion.

If memory serves me correctly, v.3 Mon 9's are the v.6 Mon 11's no? Older Mon 9's have 2 x 8 inch woofers and heavy as heck compared to the new Mon 9's (which essentially are the older Monitor 7's with the smaller woofers).

I can't comment on the pricing of older gear but new in a box seems odd for older gear. Otherwise, the Mon 9's are pretty fantastic at their retail price point, let alone at $650. Just my opinion.

here's the link to the speakers in question.


http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1239918873&/Paradigm-Monitor-9-V.3-FACTORY

so, if i'm getting the correct meaning from you're post, you're saying that these speakers are actually very good for the price?

I thought bi-amping the fronts will deliver TWICE the power to them that they would get without doing that.

At least that is what I have read and have been told at AV shops.


Bi-amping will permit you to double the power output IF the power supply can handle the power requirements. That is, there are two stages in an amplifier: the power supply and the amp module and even if the amp module can deliver the power either by itself or together with another amp module if the total power exceeds what the power supply can deliver you will not get the power you expect and you will get distortion.

If you know that the power supply is capable of delivering and you add up the demand for all the amp modules you have to have more power in the PS than the demand from the amps.

The area that gets cheated most in amp and receiver design is the power supply and most amps/receivers will not deliver the rated power on all channels at the same time from 20-20K. If you have an amp or receiver with a rated 250wpc x 7 channels the total power would be 1750w and that's at 100% effeciency and no amp, not even class D amps are 100% effecient. So, unless the amp is able to draw more than 15A (120VAC) there is no way it can sustain 7 x 250wpc no mater the amp design.

Most multi-channel amps and receivers offer much less than 250wpc so they're not likely to be limited by the 15A supply. An AVR like the Pioneer SC-05, rated at 130wpc will NOT be able to output 130wpc to all channels at the same time. If you look at the specifications they list another value for power. The SC-05 lists the "Multichannel Simultaneous Power Output Total" as 630W at 1kHz with 1% THD @ 8 ohm. So, if you take 630W and devide by 7 you wind up with 90wpc not 130wpc. But, if you look closer, the total power rating of 630W is at 1kHz and 1% THD and that is a more optimistic power rating than the 20-20K at 0.09% THD. I think the typical over-valuation using the 1kHz value is about 20% so figuring that into the 630W value you get about 500W or about 72wpc.


Brian

Hey guys, quick question. I have a pair of ADP 190's for my two side surrounds right now, and in the future I want to go 7.1. Would adp 190s be good for rear surrounds? Or would a front firing mini monitors be better for rear surrounds? They would be about 6.5 feet behind the second row of seats in my theater, and about 12" above the second rows ear level. Which is about 68" from the floor. Same as my side surrounds. I need to know now what Im going to put up in the future. As I need to put mounting strips up where the future speakers will be before I staple up the fabric on the walls of my theater. Thanks.

Any thoughts? :confused:

So I bought 3 new Studio 100's to use as my new LCR:D:D

Pic of one of them in my temp setup until my real theater is ready (hopefully about 3 weeks!)
http://www.uncoverthenet.com/shawn/theater/studios1.jpg




Congrats!!!

Any thoughts? :confused:

I have directs for rears and surrounds for surrounds. Seems people like each for different reasons, some prefer directs for both, some surrounds for both and some one of each. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

If it helps, when I bought my speakers the dealer said he highly recommends surrounds for surrounds but directs for the rears since the surrounds on the rear wall would just make the sound travel along the rear wall and not at you and towards the screen. That said, I'm not sure it would sound bad though.

Congrats!!!

Thanks!!:D

Hey guys...anyone have comments on the ADP-390 surrounds? I'm currently using a pair of Bose 301s as rear speakers with my Paradigm Monitor 9s and CC-370, along with a Velodyne sub. The Bose 301s actually make decent rear speakers due to their large woofer and tweeter alignment...but I imagine the 390s would match well with the other Paradigms in my system. They will be sitting in bookshelves immediately on either side of the seating area. Any thoughts?

I went from ADP190's to 390's with my monitor 9v5 and I could tell the differance. It seamed to open up more in the back and transistional effects were more pronounced overall they were worth the money to me.

Yeah...they're definitely on my watch list, but won't be getting them soon, as they're not exactly cheap. Around $800 or more for a pair new, from what I've seen.

Wow I paid $500 with tax after some haggling I told him that's all I had and it was his last pair so I guess I did well.

anybody know the price for some paradigm monitor 9 vs 6 or a link to all of paradigm prices msrp

Any thoughts? :confused:

Direct radiating are the norm for rear surrounds as they will fill in the given space moreso than dipoles.

anybody know the price for some paradigm monitor 9 vs 6 or a link to all of paradigm prices msrp

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

I have directs for rears and surrounds for surrounds. Seems people like each for different reasons, some prefer directs for both, some surrounds for both and some one of each. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

If it helps, when I bought my speakers the dealer said he highly recommends surrounds for surrounds but directs for the rears since the surrounds on the rear wall would just make the sound travel along the rear wall and not at you and towards the screen. That said, I'm not sure it would sound bad though.

Direct radiating are the norm for rear surrounds as they will fill in the given space moreso than dipoles.

Sounds like we are all on the same page. :) Would mounting them higher than my side surrounds with a slight downward tilt be bad? Or should I keep them all the same height? Also, which speakers do you think would match well with my monitor 9's, CC290, and ADP 190? I dont want to go big with the titan's. Would the atom's be enough to match the 190's? Or would the mini's be better? Thanks a lot guys. :)

need help !! i am buying .

studio 100
cc 690
adp 590 x 4 if nessary for 7.1
sub 15
anthem a5
pioneer sc05
ect
question how is it better to use a third 100 instead of a center channel ? it has been 15 yrs since i bought new equip. all my other equip. pioneer elite , klips speakers . any advice will help .

thanks in advance bert

need help !! i am buying .

studio 100
cc 690
adp 590 x 4 if nessary for 7.1
sub 15
anthem a5
pioneer sc05
ect
question how is it better to use a third 100 instead of a center channel ? it has been 15 yrs since i bought new equip. all my other equip. pioneer elite , klips speakers . any advice will help .

thanks in advance bertthats going to be my next listen test. 3 100's or 2 100's/cc690

thats going to be my next listen test. 3 100's or 2 100's/cc690

That will be interesting. Looking forward to an update.

question how is it better to use a third 100 instead of a center channel?
It's really a question of placement and what you're listening to. The perfect situation is three 100's, but this would require an acoustically transparent screen or a TV placed higher than the speaker (and not just higher, because you'll have to compensate for people whose eye level is below the speaker, so the TV will have to be even higher up the wall). Most people have some type of table for the center speaker, which isn't suitable for a floor standing speaker.

The other issue is what is the purpose of your center channel. If it's movies, they'll both work perfectly (CC690 or Studio 100). The only area where you're going to hear a slight difference (and not due to the speaker but do to its horizontal placement) will be in multi-channel music. I personally have so little multi-channel music that it doesn't matter to me - and in all reality, in an A/B test I doubt I'd be able to hear the difference in one of those discs, the NIN blu-ray concert.

Sounds like we are all on the same page. :) Would mounting them higher than my side surrounds with a slight downward tilt be bad? Or should I keep them all the same height? Also, which speakers do you think would match well with my monitor 9's, CC290, and ADP 190? I dont want to go big with the titan's. Would the atom's be enough to match the 190's? Or would the mini's be better? Thanks a lot guys. :)

Mine are all mounted at the same level. I would go with the atoms.

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

Those are v5 prices i need v6

Shawn did you go back and play all your favorite pieces of music I must have stayed
up all night when I got my 100's and I still enjoy them.

I did end up staying up pretty late:D

Two things I noticed about them when listening to 2 channel - I had to make sure there was no sub because of how much bass there was and I had to make sure the center channel was off because it sounded like it was coming directly from the center. The way they fill the room is just amazing.

Overall I am very unhappy with the cc-570's music performance.

When I run stereo music I get MUCH better sound from only the 60 v.3's over all channel stereo.

I am really hoping to find some funds for a cc-690

Upgrading from 3 Cinema 330's in the Left/Center/Right running off a Denon 3808.

Sunday I picked up the last pair of Studio 40 v.4's coming to Minnesota. Hot off the truck from the factory. Also picked up a CC-590v.3 locally off Craigslist. Emotiva LPA-1 is on it's way and I'm moving the Denon 3808 to a Pre/Pro roll.

But even off the Denon, I'm pretty blown away with the couple Blu-ray movies I've watched so far! Can't wait for the amp to show up and hear it all together! Thanks to those here that recommended Emotiva. Sounds like it's some huge bang for the buck!

Now I could only find a good home for the Cinema 330's! Was only able to sell one on eBay so far. Other two didn't reach the reserve.

Overall I am very unhappy with the cc-570's music performance.

When I run stereo music I get MUCH better sound from only the 60 v.3's over all channel stereo.

I am really hoping to find some funds for a cc-690Excuse my ignorance, but why is the CC570 active in stereo?

All channel stereo it does come into play

If you utilized PLIIx, it would sound better.

Why would you even compare S60's to any center channel, the CC's purpose is not to be another main speaker. It's mainly for Dialog and even in Surround Music setups it still doesn't get used as a main driver. Putting Stereo across all speakers really kills any sound stage in my opinion.

I get you on that but even on movies, unless the movie is lossless, the dialog is so-so. On lossles audio for some reason the cc is much cleaner but overall maybe I just like it more forward... I might run it a couple db hot and see if that is more to my liking.

On my new system as well as my previous system I tend to de-emphasize the center by at least 3db from the calibrated value (MACCA).


Brian

Considering purchasing:

Studio 100's(2)
CC-690(1)
ADP-590(2)(are these v.5 as well?)
Pioneer SC-07(pre/pro)
either Anthem A5/P5 or Emotiva XPA-5

all speakers are the new v.5 but the problem is the sub, would the new Sub15 be a better choice than the SVS PB 13 Ultra?

Considering purchasing:

Pioneer SC-07(pre/pro)
either Anthem A5/P5 or Emotiva XPA-5

Why would you buy the Pioneer SC-07 for use as a pre/pro? The whole point of that unit is the digital amps it has. For that price you could buy a dedicated pre/pro...

Why would you buy the Pioneer SC-07 for use as a pre/pro? The whole point of that unit is the digital amps it has. For that price you could buy a dedicated pre/pro...

Would an Integra DTC 9.8 coupled with an Emotiva XPA-5 be more suitable?

Actually I had already purchased the SC-07 from a liquidation sale brand new with full warranty for $1100 so it was a steal and with all it's features perfect for use on it's own with the ICE amps and as a pre/pro. The reasoning behind the amp is to drive the studio 100's and 690 center with the SC-07 driving the ADP-590's since I heard the speakers driven both ways and the amp is the way to go for maximum detail from the 100's and 690.

I'm still waiting for someone with input on which sub would be better, the new Paradigm Studio Sub15 or the SVS PB13 Ultra.

Why would you buy the Pioneer SC-07 for use as a pre/pro? The whole point of that unit is the digital amps it has. For that price you could buy a dedicated pre/pro...

Actually I had already purchased the SC-07 from a liquidation sale brand new with full warranty for $1100 so it was a steal.

I'm still waiting for someone with input on which sub would be better, the new Paradigm Studio Sub15 or the SVS PB13 Ultra.

Can't help with the sub. That was definitely a steal. Good job there, I just didn't want you to buy both from scratch at the same time.

I'm still waiting for someone with input on which sub would be better, the new Paradigm Studio Sub15 or the SVS PB13 Ultra.

I haven't heard the Sub15, so I can't help there. Maybe it's great. But I listened to the DSP 14 and owned the hypercube and now have the SVS Ultra and it is an excellent sub. I couldn't ask for better.

Considering purchasing:

Studio 100's(2)
CC-690(1)
ADP-590(2)(are these v.5 as well?)
Pioneer SC-07(pre/pro)
either Anthem A5/P5 or Emotiva XPA-5

all speakers are the new v.5 but the problem is the sub, would the new Sub15 be a better choice than the SVS PB 13 Ultra?

I've made a similar calculation as you

I have already received the ...

Studio 100's (2x v.5)
CC-690 (1x v.5)
Studio 20's (2x v.5)
Sub 15 (1x v.5)

and I'm currently driving them with the Pioneer SC-05 but also plan to add an external amp to drive the fronts and center leaving the SC-05 to handle the Studio 20's I'm using for surrounds. I will probably order the XPA-5 next week and will either use just three channels for the fronts and center or perhaps bi-amp the fronts and use all five channels for the fronts and center.

The quality of the amp section of the SC-05 is very good but lacking in total power hence the need for an external amp to give the Studio 100's and CC-690 the headroom they should have. As I mentioned in another thread the SC-05 is limited in total power to about 500W if you want to keep the distortion withing the 20-20K 0.09% THD @ 8 ohms specification and that amount of power would, if spread accross 7 channels, limit you to about 72wpc versus the claim of 130wpc. So, I'll use the SC-05 amp to drive the surrounds and leave the heavy lifting to the XPA-5. Additionally, by offloading the surround amplification to the SC-05 I'll limit the total power draw on the XPA-5.

I can't address the relative merrits of the SVS PB 13 Ultra as I went with the new Sub 15. My preference is for a more musical sub and that seems to be Paradigms emphasis in their high end subs.


Brian

I haven't heard the Sub15, so I can't help there. Maybe it's great. But I listened to the DSP 14 and owned the hypercube and now have the SVS Ultra and it is an excellent sub. I couldn't ask for better.

For the price you could basically stack 2 Ultras and that HAS to beat 1 sub15

In my opinion from listening to the 100's powered by a Rotel amplifier they seem to be fairly musical when given substantial power but more situated towards HT but that's just my 2cents of course. I also listened to the S8 system with 4 ADP3's, C5 center and Sub25 powered by a Anthem P5 and P2 and WOW!! what an experience with Transformers as my material...lol. I do appreciate the information on the Sub15 as I couldn't listen to it when I heard the 100's and I also would prefer a more musical sub as I'm trying to put together a dual duty system as much for music as HT which is absolutely mind numbing with all the speaker/amplifier choices out there.

One thing I am curious to know is why you would use the 20's as your surrounds rather than the ADP-590's which are a more difussive speaker?

I've made a similar calculation as you

I have already received the ...

Studio 100's (2x v.5)
CC-690 (1x v.5)
Studio 20's (2x v.5)
Sub 15 (1x v.5)

and I'm currently driving them with the Pioneer SC-05 but also plan to add an external amp to drive the fronts and center leaving the SC-05 to handle the Studio 20's I'm using for surrounds. I will probably order the XPA-5 next week and will either use just three channels for the fronts and center or perhaps bi-amp the fronts and use all five channels for the fronts and center.

The quality of the amp section of the SC-05 is very good but lacking in total power hence the need for an external amp to give the Studio 100's and CC-690 the headroom they should have. As I mentioned in another thread the SC-05 is limited in total power to about 500W if you want to keep the distortion withing the 20-20K 0.09% THD @ 8 ohms specification and that amount of power would, if spread accross 7 channels, limit you to about 72wpc versus the claim of 130wpc. So, I'll use the SC-05 amp to drive the surrounds and leave the heavy lifting to the XPA-5. Additionally, by offloading the surround amplification to the SC-05 I'll limit the total power draw on the XPA-5.

I can't address the relative merrits of the SVS PB 13 Ultra as I went with the new Sub 15. My preference is for a more musical sub and that seems to be Paradigms emphasis in their high end subs.


Brian

Anyone adding an external amp notice a big difference between balanced and unbalanced connections??

I plan on adding an external 2-3 channel amp but use an onkyp 805 without balanced outputs.

Anyone adding an external amp notice a big difference between balanced and unbalanced connections??

I plan on adding an external 2-3 channel amp but use an onkyp 805 without balanced outputs.

Balanced connections really only add value over longer runs (e.g. microphones), as they have basically double the path for the audio signal to resolve any interference issues (at least as I understand it).

However for short runs, like in a rack, it will make no difference.

That being said, once I could do balanced connections, I changed to them as it just looks cooler.

Mine are all mounted at the same level. I would go with the atoms.

Thanks Shawn. I actually did stop in at my local dealer, and he had a pair of Atoms that have been on static display for a looooong time. He said he didnt even think they had ever been hooked up. So we hooked them up, and wow they sounded great for such a little speaker. They just filled the room much more than both of us were expecting. They did have some minor hangar rash but I need to paint them anyway since they are cherry(I think) and need them black to match the rest of my speakers. So he sold the pair to me for $175. Not a bad deal I thought. :D

I own...

Paradigm 100s v4 FRONTS
Paradigm 20s v4 REARS

Will soon own...

Millenia 20 CENTER (couldn't fit the cc690 - will replace when I move to a house)
Yamaha RXV3900 (was a toss up between this and the Pio SC-07)

Will eventually add...

The replacement center (CC690) mentioned above
Side surrounds (ADP590s)
SVS Sub - not sure what model
Emotiva Amp - (XPA-3 or XPA-5)


Any opinions of this setup? Anything you would change or do differently? Anything that really fits well?

Which sub from SVS is recommended for a room 18x10 (at the moment) with a 12x5 opening to the side?

Also have a 120 gallon aquarium in the room - any chance the sub could damage this?

Thanks!

Quick question for the Paradigm peeps:

Do you think I would be better served (with about an $800. budget) getting:

Atoms or Mini Monitors with a CC-190

or

Monitor 7's and use my TV as a center (phantom) and getting a center later

I will be slowly adding to my set-up as $$ becomes available.

I have listened to the Atoms w/ the 190 and liked the way it sounds but have not listened to the 7's yet. I will be powering them with an Onkyo 606.

Thanks in advance!!!!

Luke

I own...

Paradigm 100s v4 FRONTS
Paradigm 20s v4 REARS

Will soon own...

Millenia 20 CENTER (couldn't fit the cc690 - will replace when I move to a house)
Yamaha RXV3900 (was a toss up between this and the Pio SC-07)

Will eventually add...

The replacement center (CC690) mentioned above
Side surrounds (ADP590s)
SVS Sub - not sure what model
Emotiva Amp - (XPA-3 or XPA-5)


Any opinions of this setup? Anything you would change or do differently? Anything that really fits well?

Which sub from SVS is recommended for a room 18x10 (at the moment) with a 12x5 opening to the side?

Also have a 120 gallon aquarium in the room - any chance the sub could damage this?

Thanks!

My Opinion - anything but a Millennia for a center with a Studio 100 for mains, you can't squeeze a 590 into that ? Ugh... that is going to sound awful for matching the mains.

Your looking at about 2000 cu ft, my F112 is unreal for that size room, I would suggest the Plus12 or future proof with the Ultra 13 if you can fit it... If down the line you get a much bigger room, you can just add a second.

I own...

Paradigm 100s v4 FRONTS
Paradigm 20s v4 REARS

Will soon own...

Millenia 20 CENTER (couldn't fit the cc690 - will replace when I move to a house)
Yamaha RXV3900 (was a toss up between this and the Pio SC-07)

Will eventually add...

The replacement center (CC690) mentioned above
Side surrounds (ADP590s)
SVS Sub - not sure what model
Emotiva Amp - (XPA-3 or XPA-5)


Any opinions of this setup? Anything you would change or do differently? Anything that really fits well?

Which sub from SVS is recommended for a room 18x10 (at the moment) with a 12x5 opening to the side?

Also have a 120 gallon aquarium in the room - any chance the sub could damage this?

Thanks!

The biggest thing that would worry me is the Millenia center, if you watch a lot of HT. I would try to get the matching one now instead of down the road. As for the sub, I'd get the ultra! And email SVS about the tank and any other questions, they are extremely nice and helpful.

Quick question for the Paradigm peeps:

Do you think I would be better served (with about an $800. budget) getting:

Atoms or Mini Monitors with a CC-190

or

Monitor 7's and use my TV as a center (phantom) and getting a center later

I will be slowly adding to my set-up as $$ becomes available.

I have listened to the Atoms w/ the 190 and liked the way it sounds but have not listened to the 7's yet. I will be powering them with an Onkyo 606.

Thanks in advance!!!!

Luke

I think it depends on your ratio of HT to Music and what your plans on for the future. If you plan on having towers down the line, I'd spend the money on the towers. But if you're only HT and don't have any plans to upgrade to towers for any reason, I'd get the monitors and the 190. And do you have a sub? You'll need for the atoms/monitors especially, but also for the 7's. But the 7's will be able to swing more bass than the atoms/monitors.

My Opinion - anything but a Millennia for a center with a Studio 100 for mains, you can't squeeze a 590 into that ? Ugh... that is going to sound awful for matching the mains.

Your looking at about 2000 cu ft, my F112 is unreal for that size room, I would suggest the Plus12 or future proof with the Ultra 13 if you can fit it... If down the line you get a much bigger room, you can just add a second.

Beat me by a minute!:D

I think it depends on your ratio of HT to Music and what your plans on for the future. If you plan on having towers down the line, I'd spend the money on the towers. But if you're only HT and don't have any plans to upgrade to towers for any reason, I'd get the monitors and the 190. And do you have a sub? You'll need for the atoms/monitors especially, but also for the 7's. But the 7's will be able to swing more bass than the atoms/monitors.

Thanks for the quick response!!
Well, I will be using the setup for about 60% HT, 20% gaming and 20% music. I was thinking that if I got the Atoms/190 now that I would move the Atoms to the rear (5.1) and get towers when funds become available down the line to replace my existing crappy rear speakers. As of now I don't have a sub but will get one in the future.
I am going to the dealer this weekend and will listen to the 7s and the atoms/190 again to see if I can see a difference.

Quick question for the Paradigm peeps:

Do you think I would be better served (with about an $800. budget) getting:

Atoms or Mini Monitors with a CC-190

or

Monitor 7's and use my TV as a center (phantom) and getting a center later

I will be slowly adding to my set-up as $$ becomes available.

I have listened to the Atoms w/ the 190 and liked the way it sounds but have not listened to the 7's yet. I will be powering them with an Onkyo 606.
Years ago I decided to buy my system piecemeal, and ended up with an awesome Tannoy Saturn center channel. Then Tannoy stopped making the Saturn series, and I had a mismatched system. If you are quite certain to complete your system within the year, go for the Monitor 7's, but I'd suggest you wait to get the money to buy the system you want OR buy the system you can afford now (Atoms & CC-190).

Anyone try out the new Studio 10's? Thinking of trying them out for my new rears.

Not much I can do at this point.

I visited several stores and discussed my scenario - even stores that didn't carry speakers just receivers etc...

All said the Millenia was a better choice than a Phantom Center.

I can't fit any of the CC series in - they are just too tall and deep. I would have to get a new stand and we really love this one. I have thought of every possibility - just doesn't work.

My Paradigm dealer and Paradigm themselved suggested the Millenia - Paradigm said all their speakers are timbre matched - so it is no big deal.

I do plan on upgrading - maybe I will get all Millenias to go with the 20 as a second home theatre when I do.

I will have to work with the AV to tweak things until they sound their best.

Thanks for the info!

My Opinion - anything but a Millennia for a center with a Studio 100 for mains, you can't squeeze a 590 into that ? Ugh... that is going to sound awful for matching the mains.

Your looking at about 2000 cu ft, my F112 is unreal for that size room, I would suggest the Plus12 or future proof with the Ultra 13 if you can fit it... If down the line you get a much bigger room, you can just add a second.

Anyone try out the new Studio 10's? Thinking of trying them out for my new rears.

Well I went and tried out the 10's for my rears compared to the Atoms (the last item still needing to be upgraded) and the sensitivity on them is surprisingly close. But after trying out a few different songs the 10's were the clear winner especially in the clarity. So I ordered a pair of the 10s!

Now my system is complete:D:

100's v5 for LCR
ADP-590 v5 for Surrounds
Studio 10 v5 for Rears

As for mounting the 10's I saw this mount someone recommended for the 20's pre v5:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-iIrwOssqy8J/p_121BT77B/B-Tech-BT77-Black.html?tp=2727

For those that are familiar with this mount, will it work the 10's in both size and the new box style?

Thanks,
Shawn

Hi All, I just upgraded from V.4 Monitor 11s and cc370 to a Studio 100 and cc-690 set up (thanks to the new version coming out, I was able to pick up the studio series at a pretty good price). I was really happy with my Monitors but couldnt pass these up. Loving the new soundstage, these things have unreal transparency and clarity to my ears. Plus, I still have the adp390s for surrounds and it all seems to mesh fairly well

I have a denon 2807 powering this; from what I've read here and in related topics, I think I may benefit from an external amp. Is anyone out there running a similar setup with the 2807 with or without an amp? Would love to hear what difference it made (pun intended) and what you paired with the denon to get your results.

btw -- I now have the monitor fronts and center just sitting here...anyone looking for a set of these bad boys ;) ?

I am running 5.1 with Studio 60 v3's for fronts, cc-570 center and ADP-590 v.5 sides.

I realized my room will work for 7.1 (7.2 soon I hope)...

I am looking for advice on rears.

1. Studio 10 v.5
2. Studio 20 v.4

If you could get both for about 600-650 what would you do?

Does the v.5 rear soundfield matter? would it be worth getting the smaller speaker?

Are Studio 20 v.4 rear ported??? I need something that can be basically on wall (not hung but on a modified bookshelf)