Paradigm Owners Thread [Text View] - Page 55

519audiofan

12-22-09, 12:35 PM

I'm a new and proud owner of Paradigm Studio 40 v4. I bought the pair couple of months ago. Currently I'm driving it with Onkyo TX-SR501. But I feel the receiver is a bit underpowered. I would like to get you guy's suggestion on the following Q's. Thanks a lot!

1. Should I change to a more powerful receiver? Is denon avr 1910 a good choice (performance/price wise)?
2. For HT, now I'm using some Cambridge Soundworks CC/surround speakers. I plan to switch those speakers with paradigm ones. Which CC/surround speakers go well with Studio 40 v4?

I have a pair of V4 Studio 40's and I power them with a Yamaha RXV 3900. For the CC I have a v4 CC590 and for the surrounds I am using an old pair of Atoms. Sub duty is handled by a DSP 3200. This setup works nicely - although my upgrade plan in a Sub 12 in place of the 3200 and a pair of Studio 10's for the Atoms. But again I am happy with performance of this setup - it is just a need of mine to upgrade LOL

Plasma Donor

12-22-09, 01:00 PM

The S2's are def much smoother and open on the top end also with better room dispersion.. The Sierra's are great little speakers, but there is no question that the S2's with the Be tweeter are in a whole other league...

We had a small GTG a month and 1/2 ago.... which included both those speakers, but I'll post a link to the unbiased thoughts of the other members that attended.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17458921#post17458921

The reviews of these speakers at the GTG are posted starting there and a few posts after.... hope that helps..

Thanks for posting that Warpdrv! No, really, I mean it...just having been sucked in to reading 10 pages when I should have stopped after 2. LOL I won't lie, the S2's are way over my budget but I've never read a bad thing about them so I am intrigued. I guess I could always save up for another 6 months and give them a listen. LOL

basiclearner

12-22-09, 02:31 PM

Hey guys,

I have tested both PSB Image T55 & Paradign Monitor 11 towers at home because the local dealer allowed me to take them home to test them out due to my room size 14 x 24 with access to kitchen and front door.

I have tried PSB & Paradign speakers with music from original CD, regular DVD, and Karaoke and with different volume, distance, little change in location. My mom and I liked the performance of the PSB Image T55 because it gave us rich sound from any source compared to Paradign Monitor. The only complained that I may have is the Karaoke sound not as good as I expected for vocal.

The PSB Image T55 pair is discontinuing product as I have been told and the dealer offers me PSB Image with center Image C40 Center or C60 forgot about the model on the center for $750 deal and Paradign Monitor 11 costs $1500 a pair. I personally think that this pair is for demo and other purposes that is why he is selling them little cheaper?

What do you guys think? Any suggestion or advice for either these two speakers or others higher end ones? If I decided to pick either of those do you guys think that I should mix with other speakers such as sub, surround and or center.

Thanks,

Ken

rnrgagne

12-22-09, 03:31 PM

The PSB Image T55 pair is discontinuing product as I have been told and the dealer offers me PSB Image with center Image C40 Center or C60 forgot about the model on the center for $750 deal. I personally think that this pair is for demo and other purposes that is why he is selling them little cheaper?

What do you guys think? Any suggestion or advice for either these two speakers or others higher end ones? If I decided to pick either of those do you guys think that I should mix with other speakers such as sub, surround and or center.

Thanks,

Ken

If the PSB's float your boat in your own room then it's a no brainer. Most don't get the opportunity to do that.

I have PSB Image series speakers in my second system - the first generation. They do sound good for the money. I would look into whether the second generation improved the tweeters' reliability at all. They seem to blow fairly easily - I know I went through a few.

akopperl

12-22-09, 04:07 PM

Warpdrv

12-22-09, 06:46 PM

Thanks for posting that Warpdrv! No, really, I mean it...just having been sucked in to reading 10 pages when I should have stopped after 2. LOL I won't lie, the S2's are way over my budget but I've never read a bad thing about them so I am intrigued. I guess I could always save up for another 6 months and give them a listen. LOL

Here ya go... and a dam good price...
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61110

that'll get you almost the way there, I have really thought about buying these for my rear surrounds, but its just way over the top for my rear surround speakers, size and budget... but they sure would match perfectly - no question about it...

KEW is a great guy, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him...

Warpdrv

12-22-09, 07:13 PM

Has anyone that purchased a Signature speaker - any model - had an issue with the finish? I recently purchased a pair of S6 v2 new on clearance and one of the speakers had a few blemishes on the top (Cherry finish). The finish was still smooth, but there was a circular patch that was slightly discolored.

My dealer said that they would get me a replacement. Basically, Paradigm needs to build a v2 from scratch using their stock of replacement parts. Quite a hassle - but I don't really have any other choice.

Keep in mind that the finishes may not match if the serial #'s are not concurrent... It may be a touch more red or lighter then what one is.

Personally if it were me, I would ask for a deeper discount on what he has available so as not to have mismatching speakers... How bad are the blemishes, if they are really bad to me that would justify a pretty deep discount for a flawed unit, and buy them.. :)

Kai Winters

12-22-09, 07:15 PM

Warpdrv

12-22-09, 07:44 PM

Yeah, well my AVP's three independent sub output & Audyssey saved my butt when I was running three subs because I don't have the patience for that level of tweaking. Enjoy.

Well it took a while to tweak my setup, but Nuance and I spend a good 6 hours EQ'ing my 4 subs in my room to come up with a pretty darn nice response... Not bad for a 8200^3 room

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/LMS/subsEqd.jpg

cyli

12-22-09, 09:11 PM

You should try a better receiver for the 40's. I have Monitor 9's and going from an Onkyo 607 to 807 made a significant difference in sound quality and power. Even at lower volumes, they sound a lot better.

How many watts a receiver should have in order to drive 40's (v4) well? Is denon avr 1910 (90W@8Ohm per channel) is a good fit, or should I go with more powerful models?

rnrgagne

12-22-09, 09:29 PM

Well it took a while to tweak my setup, but Nuance and I spend a good 6 hours EQ'ing my 4 subs in my room to come up with a pretty darn nice response... Not bad for a 8200^3 room

6 hours...yikes :eek:

That does look good though.

Warpdrv

12-22-09, 10:02 PM

6 hours...yikes :eek:

That does look good though.

Well only because we started over, had an issue with the DCX 2496 that we resolved using an 1124 to test, found out what the issue was, did a full reset on the DCX and we were off a running... had to reset every parameter on the DCX.... x-over, phase, polarity and then EQ for each sub to pull down the highs.

Then start blending - Eqing the first, testing the next EQ-ing, then adding it to the collective, then testing the next EQ-ing then adding it to the collective and so on...

We did have lunch, and I had some emergency business to deal with in there, which ate up at least an hour or more. But all in all time was well spent and it was a pretty leisure activity. Really learned alot...

Thrilled so far with the results, I'll probably end up tweaking it some more when I have some time...

Oh and I didn't even run ARC on the D2v yet... I broke the PCMCIA to RS232 card for my laptop to communicate with both the DCX and the Anthem... Grrrr
Laptop slid off the chair and landed on the floor - crushed the dam thing... only $20 but replacements not gunna get here until next week... :(

nakhter

12-23-09, 02:03 AM

pbc

12-23-09, 08:46 AM

Well it took a while to tweak my setup, but Nuance and I spend a good 6 hours EQ'ing my 4 subs in my room to come up with a pretty darn nice response... Not bad for a 8200^3 room

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/LMS/subsEqd.jpg

Wow, that's a pretty impressive graph for an 8000cuft room (any room actually).

Curious, have you tried the sweep at higher SPL to see at what point it starts to get messy?

Raptorsys

12-23-09, 10:06 AM

Wow, that's a pretty impressive graph for an 8000cuft room (any room actually).

Curious, have you tried the sweep at higher SPL to see at what point it starts to get messy?

Why mess around ... set the volume to 130db then call the insurance company!

Brian

Warpdrv

12-23-09, 10:08 AM

I am trying to figure out if my current setup is correct. While watching
Terminator 3 notice some distortion from the center channel. My speakers
are about 4 years old. Here is my setup :

Center - S3 hooked up to Rotel 1090 (200 W/channel)
PreAmp is Anthem AVM30

I have all the speakers setup in advance mode with crossover freq 60Hz (factory default in advance mode, basically large speakers)
I can hear the distortion/buzzing/humming notice at higher volume with heavy action scenes. Not sure what is causing this and how this can be fixed, speaker works fine with lower volume.
Thanks

Got to the speaker level config screen and run the test tone, and go back and forth from the front main and then the center channel and put your ear closer to the speaker and see if you can determine if you have a bad driver. I assume you meant that you have a C3 center channel.

Wow, that's a pretty impressive graph for an 8000cuft room (any room actually).

Curious, have you tried the sweep at higher SPL to see at what point it starts to get messy?

Thanks pbc.... actually its a little bit rough between 120 - 600hz, but I'm pretty confident that ARC will handle those areas, so that is the natural room response, very lightly treated... Not too concerned about the measurements at full spl... it sounds really clean at high volumes..

Got a number of acoustic panels for christmas to aid, woman picked this one out and I got it yesterday :)
GIK Acoustics - worked pretty hard with her on picking out different pics...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=161690&stc=1&d=1261580828

Diggin the Music theme stuff... got more coming like that with Sax's and Guitars on the way... :)
Sorry - grainy Iphone pic

cassnlogan

12-23-09, 11:15 AM

rnrgagne

12-23-09, 11:21 AM

Got a number of acoustic panels for christmas to aid, woman picked this one out and I got it yesterday :)
GIK Acoustics - worked pretty hard with her on picking out different pics...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=161690&stc=1&d=1261580828

Diggin the Music theme stuff... got more coming like that with Sax's and Guitars on the way... :)
Sorry - grainy Iphone pic

It's such a good idea, the biggest detractor to room treatments is the WAF. Having the panels double art is such a simple yet clever application.

osofast240sx

12-23-09, 12:25 PM

Ok, I have Studio 40's as my fronts being driven with an Onkyo 607. While they do sound really great, and I'm not an audiophile, I'm wondering how much they would benefit being driven by a better AVR. The 607 is the best I've ever owned and I just got it a couple months ago. I'm just curious how much better the 40's would sound with a better AVR? 60% HDTV, 20% music and 20% movies.how much do you want to spend? from the side by side test that i have done IMO it is a night and day difference in sound going from a 707 to a 3007 or 5007. and the extra power should wake up your 40's

cassnlogan

12-23-09, 12:27 PM

how much do you want to spend? from the side by side test that i have done IMO it is a night and day difference in sound going from a 707 to a 3007 or 5007. and the extra power should wake up your 40's

Thanks osofast. Not really a matter of how much I want to spend. More a matter of would I want a divorce.;)

osofast240sx

12-23-09, 12:29 PM

Thanks osofast. Not really a matter of how much I want to spend. More a matter of would I want a divorce.;)my wife has her things i dont say a word, i have my things and she does not ask;)

cassnlogan

12-23-09, 01:25 PM

my wife has her things i dont say a word, i have my things and she does not ask;)

Sounds pretty much how it is around here too--within reason. I was just curious if I could justify the extra $$ to myself after just buying a new receiver 2 months ago. It may have to wait awhile as this is my 2nd receiver in about 2 years.:eek: But I assure you it will get there. As we all know, this hobby is an expensive work in progress.;)

osofast240sx

12-23-09, 01:30 PM

Sounds pretty much how it is around here too--within reason. I was just curious if I could justify the extra $$ to myself after just buying a new receiver 2 months ago. It may have to wait awhile as this is my 2nd receiver in about 2 years.:eek: But I assure you it will get there. As we all know, this hobby is an expensive work in progress.;)this is one of the few personal hobbies that the whole family can enjoy:)

levy07

12-23-09, 01:39 PM

Any speaker recommendations for a smaller room? I want to uprgrade and I currently have a five floorstanding speaker set up and a crt projector. My current speakers are some old Jensen and I have a Onkyo TX-SR605. I am using an Oppo BDP-83 for blu rays. I am currently looking at the cinema series particularly the phantoms. Thank you.

mhlzeus

12-23-09, 06:48 PM

I just purchased the Studio 590 center channel and Studio 15 sub. A couple of q's:

1) According to the manual with the sub 15, a XLR cable would provide the best sound quality. My receiver (Denon 3808) does not have this output. I see monoprice has a XLR male to RCA male cable, would there be an advantage to this or would it be just as effective as a RCA male to male?

2) I want to wall mount the 590 center channel, it looks like there is a metal wall bracket available to mount the speaker from the back side (where the speaker cable connects) according to the instructions. My worry is that the speaker feels fairly heavy and I wonder if the bracket mounted to the wall would hold as it would mostly be wall anchors used through drywall and maybe I could screw a portion of it into a stud if its in the right place. Has anyone used a wall bracket/mount with a 590 or 690?

I can't use the floor stands as the speaker will be sitting under a projector screen and the screen is to low to the ground for the stands. I guess my only other option would be to build a custom shelf?

Thanks for your response.

Mark

Warpdrv

12-23-09, 07:54 PM

If you don't have XLR then that option is out, you will not notice a difference between an XLR or an RCA subwoofer cable... you'll be fine...

The 590 or the 690 if I recall correctly are both rear ported and would not perform well if placed right against the wall, it would be better on a stand in front of the screen aimed upward to the seating location.
I would suggest against the wall mounting of either of those speakers...

A better scenario would be to have a acoustically transparent screen with all the same speakers across the front.....

/dev/null

12-23-09, 08:38 PM

Has anyone used a wall bracket/mount with a 590 or 690?

They make walls big enough to hold a 690?!? ;)

Sorry... As a 690 owner, I just had to go there...

ayrton

12-24-09, 12:04 AM

Like Warp said, they are rear ported. I can imagine mounting one to the wall, it probably would shake the house apart. ;)

akopperl

12-24-09, 03:16 PM

osofast240sx

12-24-09, 03:33 PM

pbc

12-24-09, 04:33 PM

I have the following setup:

Signature S6 v2 (front)
Signature C5 v2 (center)
Signature S1 v2 (rear)

Will an Onkyo TX-NR5007 receiver be capable of properly driving these speakers? Or do they require a separate amp? I was thinking about an Emotiva XP-5, but was not certain whether that would be a significant upgrade over the Onkyo.

Thanks

The Sigs are pretty efficient speakers. Your 5007 is Onkyo's most potent receiver (145 watts per ch, not sure the actual rating with all channels driven but likely north of 100 watts).

I would venture a guess that you're going to be fine. But you haven't stated your room size and how far away you sit from your mains.

If you have a large (say >3,000 cuft) room and sit a good distance from your mains (say more than 15 feet), then you MIGHT realize the benefit of a dedicated amp.

Also, you don't mention if you're running a potent sub with that. If you have a good sub (hopefully you do, given the speakers!) and you're crossing the speakers say at 60 or ideally 80hz and leaving the low stuff to the sub, then I would say with about 90% certainty you DO NOT need a power amp.

Having said that, I am in a 1700cuft room, sit about 13 feet from my mains, have the 140 watt per ch Onkyo 876, but use a 200w x 7 ch Sunfire amp.

I seriously doubt I need that kind of additional power given the room size. But I bought the amp years ago when I had a 80 or 90 watt per ch receiver and decided not to sell it (besides, it wouldn't be worth that much used right now!).

I may have just saved you some money. Merry Christmas. ;)

pbc

12-24-09, 04:36 PM

Oh, and to sum it up, if you don't have a really good sub, take the money you'd otherwise spend on an amp and spend it on a really good sub. That, I gaurantee you without a doubt, will do more for your HT system than a dedicated amp!

pbc

12-24-09, 04:44 PM

akopperl

12-24-09, 11:21 PM

Hmmm .... I see from another thread you're looking at the A5-300 ED sub. Here's my suggestion.

Instead of the 5007, go with the 3007. Save about $300ish. Don't buy a seperate amp. Save another $500 to $800.

Take that $800 to $1,100 I just saved you, add it to the $550 you were going to spend on the eD sub. Spent $2,000ish on the Seaton Submersive. Or an SVS PB13. Or dual HSU ULS-15's. That eD sub is a decent performer, but not in the same league as your new Sigs.

Then sit back and be in awe of the system you have just created.

I just purchased a pretty good sub - the PSB SubSeries 500. I got a good deal on the unit and it was the only sub that had solid output that looked nice and was able to fit in my room. I couldn't purchase a sub greater than 16" in width.

From the responses thus far, it appears that I may not need a separate amp. I crossover the front three speakers at 50hz and the rears at 80hz. I am only 10' away from the front speakers, but the room is fairly large (17 x 15 with an 18' ceiling - also the room opens up to two other rooms). Although at times, I feel like the center speaker could use a little more power.

Stylz25

12-25-09, 12:38 AM

oztech

12-25-09, 01:00 AM

Zadmax

12-25-09, 11:55 PM

Kai Winters

12-26-09, 06:57 AM

I am looking into buying the Paradigm Monitor 11 5.1 system and was wondering if the Onkyo 807 would be a good receiver to drive these speakers or should I go with the Onkyo 1007? Is it worth it to get the Audyssey MultiEQ XT?

I've never owned or used an Onkyo but I'm powering my 11's/fronts, cc290/center, Atoms/surrounds and PDR-12/sub with a Yamaha RX-V659...4 years old...and it is plenty powerful.

By the way I love my 11's and hope you do too.

Actually heading into Syracuse NY today and hoping to demo some receivers at the BB Magnolia's...perhaps taking something home if it tickles me in the right spot.

pbc

12-26-09, 08:56 AM

I just purchased a pretty good sub - the PSB SubSeries 500. I got a good deal on the unit and it was the only sub that had solid output that looked nice and was able to fit in my room. I couldn't purchase a sub greater than 16" in width.

From the responses thus far, it appears that I may not need a separate amp. I crossover the front three speakers at 50hz and the rears at 80hz. I am only 10' away from the front speakers, but the room is fairly large (17 x 15 with an 18' ceiling - also the room opens up to two other rooms). Although at times, I feel like the center speaker could use a little more power.

Well, gorgeous looking sub!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=161808&stc=1&d=1261835417

Class H amp, interesting. Doesn't appear to be any reviews of it yet.

At 10' you should be fine with the Onkyo reciever. Give it a go and see if when you are pushing the speakers close to reference if you start to get any distortion or clipping. Doubt that you will given the Ultra 2 spec on the Onkyo for large rooms.

In that size of room, the single sub is really going to be the limiting factor. But With a 16" width diameter, unless you were willing to go with a Sonotube type woofer (which personally I am not a fan of the look of), it would be tough to find too many choices.

Let us know how you enjoy the system!

pbc

12-26-09, 09:08 AM

I've been having sort of a difficult time deciding on a new center channel.

I currently have a pair of Sig S4v1's up front and I am trying to decide what to do about adding a center, primarily for a home theater set up. I know that a C5v1 or even a C3v1 would be the best match for my S4v1's, but I am thinking I may eventually move the S4's to the rear to go with newer S6v2/v3 up front. But that might not happen very soon.

With that in mind (and a limited budget) I have been trying to decide between a new or used C5v1, or a new C3v3 as it seems I can get either for roughly the same price (in piano black btw).

Any thoughts on this? I realize the difference between the newer sigs (especially the beryllium tweeter vs. the older g-pal dome) but was just curious what some of you might do in this situation.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Unless your room is "Warpdrv" huge, the C3 will more than suffice assuming a capable sub as you don't need the extra drivers the C5 will give you.

But timbre matching the front 3 speakers in particular is something I (and the vast majority of people here) will reccomend is crucial. Personally, I'd go with the C5v1 used, and when/if you do upgrade, you could always sell it and get a used C3v3 at that time and likely not be down that much in terms of dollars.

E.g., on Audiogon right now a C5v1 is going for $1595. I purchased a new C3v2 for about the same. So a used C3v2 would likely have been hundreds less.

When you upgrade, assuming in say a year's time, I'm sure there will be some v3's available.

My 2 cents anyhow.

Alternatively, pick up a v5 CC590 to hold you over. I believe the new Studio series has the same tweeters of the v1 series Sigs? I think Warpdrv matched his Sigs with a 690 before upgrading and mentioned it was a pretty good match.

Warpdrv

12-26-09, 12:19 PM

Unless your room is "Warpdrv" huge, the C3 will more than suffice assuming a capable sub as you don't need the extra drivers the C5 will give you.

This is good info... if your room and seating layout is not real wide - C3 is a very capable speaker. The C5 starts to act like a line array if you will with the extra width, does it perform better, - a bit more bass output and a touch more effeciency though I doubt it would make a huge impact unless you are shooting for high SPL's. Its really the same driver complement.

Alternatively, pick up a v5 CC590 to hold you over. I believe the new Studio series has the same tweeters of the v1 series Sigs? I think Warpdrv matched his Sigs with a 690 before upgrading and mentioned it was a pretty good match.

Same dome, but different tweeter from the studios .v4 & .v5 to the sigs... the sigs .v1 gpal are more capable using neodymium magnets (stronger smaller lighter) - just designed better.

If your on the way to upgrade the Mains to S6's down the line, I wouldn't hesitate to move to the Be tweeter, you'll get better dialog and a bit nicer dispersion as well... Its an extremely closely voice match on all the lines of the sigs..

pbc

12-26-09, 04:32 PM

This is good info... if your room and seating layout is not real wide - C3 is a very capable speaker. The C5 starts to act like a line array if you will with the extra width, does it perform better, - a bit more bass output and a touch more effeciency though I doubt it would make a huge impact unless you are shooting for high SPL's. Its really the same driver complement.

Same dome, but different tweeter from the studios .v4 & .v5 to the sigs... the sigs .v1 gpal are more capable using neodymium magnets (stronger smaller lighter) - just designed better.

If your on the way to upgrade the Mains to S6's down the line, I wouldn't hesitate to move to the Be tweeter, you'll get better dialog and a bit nicer dispersion as well... Its an extremely closely voice match on all the lines of the sigs..

Ah, for some reason I thought I read somewhere that the v5's were upgraded to the same tweets as the Sig v1's.

Zadmax

12-26-09, 09:48 PM

Thanks for the input on the Sig C5v1 vs Sig C3v3. My room is approx. 14' x 13' so not real big at all. I think I may go with the C3v3 afterall. If I do wind up moving to a new set of S6's in the front or even a used set of S6v2's down the road (maybe sooner than later but hard to say), I will be set with my center.

Also, it is much easier to feel comfortable buying new vs. used especially since I have attempted to gain more info on a couple of the used C5v1's in piano black I have seen up for sale recently (including the one listed on Audiogon for $1595) but have not received any response. They were simple questions asked several days ago, but perhaps with the holiday the seller hasn't had time to get back to me. :confused:

Anyhow, thanks again for the input as it is much appreciated. :cool:

TRT

12-26-09, 09:52 PM

mjpearce023

12-27-09, 01:10 AM

I have the paradigm monitor 3 v3 and the cc370 v4. I just got the mini monitor v6 and I'm wondering what the breakin period is on them. Should I be careful about playing them loud for 2 weeks. I also want to know if I upgraded to the cc290 v6 and used the minimonitors as fronts would that sound better than the 3s and the cc 370. The other option is to just keep what I have and use the minimonitors as rears. I don't know what to do. It was a suprise getting the minis.

stephenmcgauley

12-27-09, 01:53 AM

stephenmcgauley

12-27-09, 01:55 AM

"I have the paradigm monitor 3 v3 and the cc370 v4. I just got the mini monitor v6 and I'm wondering what the breakin period is on them. Should I be careful about playing them loud for 2 weeks. I also want to know if I upgraded to the cc290 v6 and used the minimonitors as fronts would that sound better than the 3s and the cc 370. The other option is to just keep what I have and use the minimonitors as rears. I don't know what to do. It was a suprise getting the minis."

I have the titan v.3's which are nearly identical to your mini monitors and it took them about 100 to 125 hours before they were broke in for me

Kai Winters

12-27-09, 07:37 AM

Hey I know that I am new to avs but I am really having and issue choosing new loud speakers for my set up. I currently have titan v.3 as my fronts with a cc 190 center and some junk as my rears. I want to put the titans in the back and replace them with either monitor 9's or studio 20's. Both of these speakers are at the max of what I can afford. Would it be worth getting the 20's with the cc 190 as the center or will I be better off getting the 9's and matching all around.

If it were me I would opt for the Studio 20's and use them as a base for eventually upgrading the entire system. But for now I would use the 20's as my fronts, 190 as center and Titans as surrounds.

I spent some time comparing the Studio 20's to the Monitor 7's and 9's and felt there was very little "comparison". The 20's are at another level. I wound up buying Monitor 11's instead of the 20's and while I love the 11's...I got them for an absolutely killer price from a local shop I've long done business with...and not a penny off on the 20's from a different shop in another city...I wish I would have spent the extra money and went the Studio direction.

The cc190, while a decent center is not up to either the Monitor 9 or the 20's. The Titans are nice speakers and will be very acceptable surrounds.

I'm currently using Monitor 11's for fronts/cc290 center...huge improvement in the dialogue of movies/tv etc over the 190...Atoms for surrounds and PDR 12 sub...very nice sounding system and I'm quite content...for now lol.

My stockpile of replaced by upgrading includes a pair of Titans which are nice but I preferred the Atoms sound over the Titans...older version than today's version, cc190 which while a nice center is lacking in dialogue and was noticeable, Monitor 3's which are an awesome speaker...replaced by the 11's...and will go into a new system for my son this week.

Good luck and keep us informed.

cassnlogan

12-27-09, 07:52 AM

pbc

12-27-09, 08:18 AM

cassnlogan

12-27-09, 08:48 AM

No, set them at 80hz cross over. Assuming you have a sub that is.

Thanks PBC. I'll give it a try.

stephenmcgauley

12-27-09, 11:08 AM

If it were me I would opt for the Studio 20's and use them as a base for eventually upgrading the entire system. But for now I would use the 20's as my fronts, 190 as center and Titans as surrounds.

I spent some time comparing the Studio 20's to the Monitor 7's and 9's and felt there was very little "comparison". The 20's are at another level. I wound up buying Monitor 11's instead of the 20's and while I love the 11's...I got them for an absolutely killer price from a local shop I've long done business with...and not a penny off on the 20's from a different shop in another city...I wish I would have spent the extra money and went the Studio direction.

The cc190, while a decent center is not up to either the Monitor 9 or the 20's. The Titans are nice speakers and will be very acceptable surrounds.

I'm currently using Monitor 11's for fronts/cc290 center...huge improvement in the dialogue of movies/tv etc over the 190...Atoms for surrounds and PDR 12 sub...very nice sounding system and I'm quite content...for now lol.

My stockpile of replaced by upgrading includes a pair of Titans which are nice but I preferred the Atoms sound over the Titans...older version than today's version, cc190 which while a nice center is lacking in dialogue and was noticeable, Monitor 3's which are an awesome speaker...replaced by the 11's...and will go into a new system for my son this week.

Good luck and keep us informed.

thanks for the advice Kai I am going to take a serious look again at those 20's!

rnrgagne

12-27-09, 01:22 PM

I recently acquired a pair of Studio 40 v.2 for my fronts and a Studio CC. I have run Audyssey several times on my Onkyo 607 due to repositioning, etc. Every time I run Audyssey it sets my 40's and the CC at "full." Is that the way they should be set or at a different crossover?

It's actually not Audyssey that sets the crossovers, it's Onkyo (or any receiver manufacturer) that determines at what low frequency extension speakers will be designated as "large" ("full"). If Audyssey had their way there would be no such thing as "large".

Wrpdrv's suggestion of 80hz is a good one, it's a THX standard, but changing crossovers one of those "can't do any harm" things you can experiment with to see what sounds best in you room.

Stylz25

12-27-09, 02:14 PM

Kal Rubinson

12-27-09, 02:19 PM

Stylz25

12-27-09, 02:26 PM

It is only confusing if you believe that those specs are complete, accurate and comparable. I sure don't.

Yeah I realize that as well....it is misleading but it just blows my mind that they can put those specs on those Precision Acoustic Speakers and you get everything for 500 bucks at bestbuy....when I am looking to spend like 2500-3500 just for the 5.1 speaker setup!!! Maybe I should not get the Paradigms....they do sound good though...i do listen to all speakers! lol

Kal Rubinson

12-27-09, 02:45 PM

Yeah I realize that as well....it is misleading but it just blows my mind that they can put those specs on those Precision Acoustic Speakers and you get everything for 500 bucks at bestbuy....If you realize that, then you should be disregarding such specs, especially with regard to speakers where the room's influence is huge. Get over it.

when I am looking to spend like 2500-3500 just for the 5.1 speaker setup!!! Maybe I should not get the Paradigms....they do sound good though...i do listen to all speakers! lolWell, if you don't put any stock in how they sound to you, why bother obsessing over any of this?

Bigred7078

12-27-09, 03:39 PM

lorjam

12-27-09, 04:32 PM

[QUOTE=Kal Rubinson;17794668]If you realize that, then you should be disregarding such specs, especially with regard to speakers where the room's influence is huge. Get over it.

I see Kal stopped listening to Celine Dion CDs long enough to rejoin the forum:D

stephenmcgauley

12-27-09, 04:47 PM

I am confused on the Paradigm Monitor 11 5.1 system frequency response ratings! The center speaker 80hz-20khz and you can get a Precision Acoustic Center Speaker at bestbuy.ca for 50 bucks and the frequency is 48hz-20khz which doesn't make sense to me at all considering the price difference is huge! Just wondering if anyone could shead the light on me about this and why? Thanks guys.

I agree with what everyone else is saying and you need to realize that the frequnecy response is one of the least important specs one can really look at. sure it does give you a little guidance but the example you provided about the best buy speaker having a lower response is exactly the reason you don't look at those specs. Any manufacturer can tweak the room settings to get whatever rating they want from a speaker. The real question is whether they are giving you a truley accurate rating and the best buy speaker is NOT! I promise that best buy speaker sounds like a tin can compared to the paradigm. Go with what sounds good to you and stop worrying about specs!

Tmac30

12-27-09, 10:43 PM

Has anyone on here went from a CC590 v4 to a CC690 v5 center speaker? If so what kind of a sound difference would I expect and gain by doing this? I plan on buying a CC60 center channel sometime this week and am looking for opinions on this. I am sure the 690 will blow away the 590 in dynamics and sound but just was curious. Also I believe the 690 will match up better with my studio 100 v5's as well.

JasonColeman

12-27-09, 11:33 PM

It sounds like you've already convinced yourself. I went from a v3 570 to the v5 690 and the difference is staggering. Enjoy the upgrade!

J.

rack04

12-28-09, 09:14 AM

rack04

12-28-09, 10:03 AM

Has anyone had problems with the tweeter not working in the Monitor 9's? I'm reluctant to take this to the service center because their labor cost isn't included in the warranty. If this is a known problem I wonder if I can call Paradigm and have them ship me a replacement part so that I can install it without paying labor.

Well I just spoke with Paradigm and they wont ship the part directly to me. I assumed this much but I wanted to verify. They also said that they can't do anything about the service center charging for their labor. They said the shop I bought the speakers from with more than likely do the replacement for free but since I have moved this isn't an option.

Warpdrv

12-28-09, 10:12 AM

Why don't you call the shop you bought the speaker from, and tell them the tweeter is bad, and you would like them to order you a new one under warranty, then when the new part comes in remove the tweeter take it over there, swap it with the new one and replace it... That way you can avoid any labor charge from the dealer, they are obligated to warranty the product for you...

Its only 4 screws, and then remove the 2 wires once the tweet is loose... couldn't get much easier then that....

So easy a caveman can do it !!!!

rack04

12-28-09, 10:20 AM

osofast240sx

12-28-09, 10:30 AM

That is exactly what I would like to do except the shop I purchased from is 4 hours south. I have moved since purchasing these speakers.call them. ask them to send it to you.

Warpdrv

12-28-09, 10:30 AM

That is exactly what I would like to do except the shop I purchased from is 4 hours south. I have moved since purchasing these speakers.

Ah.... How about going to the local shop with a case of beer and sweet talking them a little bit... get to know them see what they can do to help you and what can you think of to win them over and make a friend.

That is how relationships begin I believe... :)

pbc

12-28-09, 10:35 AM

That is how relationships begin I believe... :)

Just remember to use protection ... :p

mjpearce023

12-28-09, 03:25 PM

I know this isnt on the level of many home theaters in this forum but I like my little set up.

Denon 1708
Paradigm Monitor 3 v3
CC370 v4
Mini Monitor v6
Samsung 40a630 LCD
PS3
XBOX 360
Comcast HD box

I am thinking of upgrading the cc370 to the cc290 v6 but my dealer dosnt have one on the floor for me to listen too. I dont know if it would be that big of an inprovement.

Pair4Dimes

12-28-09, 03:32 PM

Ah.... How about going to the local shop with a case of beer and sweet talking them a little bit... get to know them see what they can do to help you and what can you think of to win them over and make a friend.

That is how relationships begin I believe... :)

This would work on me... I'd order 2 tweeters for him hah ...Not so much the sweet talk but the case of beer works...

Bigred7078

12-28-09, 04:21 PM

This would work on me... I'd order 2 tweeters for him hah ...Not so much the sweet talk but the case of beer works...

depends on the beer for me...

ah well what am I saying...bring in a case of Pabst and i would help you out:D

rack04

12-28-09, 04:36 PM

mjpearce023

12-28-09, 07:43 PM

Has anyone upgraded a cc370 to a cc290. Was there a big improvment. Is it worth 200 to go up to the cc290. I just got a demo cc370 on 12/24 so I can return it for the cc290 and pay the difference. There are no demos of any of the new monitor center channels so I cant listen before buying them

jaamar1

12-29-09, 09:57 AM

Hello to everyone

I have a question regarding center channel.
My speaker setup is as follows:
Front: Studio 60v4
Center: Studio CC590v4
Rear: Studio 40v4
Subwoofer: 2 x DSP3400
Receiver: Marantz SR9600 + Power Amp Rotel RB981 (for center channel only)

I am not quite happy with CC590v4 dialogue quality. Sound in most of the cases is ..I would say "flat" and "small". I try with different locations of the speaker, I even bought power amp - all for nothing. Reasuming - I am not satisfied with this speaker.
I was thinking about replacement - CC690. The only trouble is that there is no more v4 on the market. Probably I will need to buy CC690v5.
And there is my question: is there any problem to use studio 60v4 and CC690v5? Does anyone has this experience?

lmacmil

12-29-09, 10:13 AM

Been reading this forum pretty religiously for the last week or so and am ready to ask for a specific recommendation. I will spend no more than $500 not due to budget constraints but rather that's all I'm willing to spend (oh, and to keep the wife minimally dissatisfied ;) ). Willing to buy mail order/internet and not opposed to refurbs if done by the manufacturer (e.g., Polk store on Ebay). Will also consider recently discontinued models (e.g., Polk monitor series).

Criteria are: bookshelf only (no towers, no mini-satellites), all 3 from same manufacturer, preferably the same line within the manufacturer, available companion surrounds (minis preferred) is a plus.

Room is 15x20x8. I have a BIC H100 sub to supplement the low end. 90% TV and DVD (just got a Blu-Ray player), 10% music (I have a good stereo for serious music listening). My ears are old and tired which is another reason I'm not going to spend a lot. Speakers being replaced are Yamaha "Natural Sound" small bookshelf (6" woofer) and center channel. They are 10 years old and my kid picked them (big mistake in hindsight) because he could get the BB employee discount.

Thanks for you input.

rnrgagne

12-29-09, 11:18 AM

I am not quite happy with CC590v4 dialogue quality. Sound in most of the cases is ..I would say "flat" and "small". I try with different locations of the speaker, I even bought power amp - all for nothing. Reasuming - I am not satisfied with this speaker.
I was thinking about replacement - CC690. The only trouble is that there is no more v4 on the market. Probably I will need to buy CC690v5.
And there is my question: is there any problem to use studio 60v4 and CC690v5? Does anyone has this experience?

Shouldn't be a problem, but I'm a little surprised that the 590 doesn't perform better for you.

A couple of things to check;

First off make sure you don't have a blown driver.

Secondly, try it on a different channel to make sure there isn't something wrong with the receivers' center channel output.

Third; make sure you get a good Audyssey calibration (If you haven't done it give it a go.) go to the Audyssey thread and check out giomania's Audyssey Set Up Guide linked on the first page.

jaamar1

12-29-09, 01:51 PM

A couple of things to check;
First off make sure you don't have a blown driver.
Secondly, try it on a different channel to make sure there isn't something wrong with the receivers' center channel output.
Third; make sure you get a good Audyssey calibration (If you haven't done it give it a go.) go to the Audyssey thread and check out giomania's Audyssey Set Up Guide linked on the first page.

1. I am sure than everything is OK with all drivers
2. There is everything OK with the receiver outputs
3. I don't like calibration tweaking. Maybe it is wrong but I am 100% purist - so no correction allowed.

I just don't like how CC590v4 is dealing with voices. So again - is it OK to use cc690v5 with my current front speakers (studio 60v4)?

picture:

rnrgagne

12-29-09, 04:39 PM

3. I don't like calibration tweaking. Maybe it is wrong but I am 100% purist - so no correction allowed.

This is multi channel audio, and room correction goes a LONG way to getting the most out of your system. You simply don't know what you're missing and frankly your line of thinking is antiquated for this application.

Trust me I grew up as a so called "purist" shunning even simple tone controls. The fact of the matter is that in recent times this has been the most significant improvement to come along in audio that I can recall since the advent of CD's.

I'll make you a friendly wager; run the Audyssey using giomania's guide and I'll bet you change your mind about dialog intelligibility of your cc. If I'm wrong I'll accept any public humiliation you want to throw my way. ;)

The room/speaker interaction is the most significant part in achieving good audio, that includes both passive and electronic correction. With the massive computing power on board these receivers now, the digital room correction part is a snap. Audyssey not only corrects frequency response but also the critical time alignment, which is huge in multi-channel audio. IMO.

rnrgagne

12-29-09, 04:55 PM

I just don't like how CC590v4 is dealing with voices. So again - is it OK to use cc690v5 with my current front speakers (studio 60v4)?

picture:

Sorry I just looked at the picture;

I assumed the Marantz was a later model with Audyssey I know your's has a proprietary RC on board but since they switched to Audyssey I would assume it's not to the same level as what I'm talking about.

Also it's good to see passive treatments, that's a great start.

Running dual subs is really tricky to get right and it could also be a source of the problem depending on their interaction with the cc. They're pretty close to the cc so a null or peak from them and/or the cc at the listening position affecting dialog is a possibility.

The1stCav

12-29-09, 05:02 PM

I run dual subwoofers and a CC-590 v.5 and I have no issues with sound for what it is worth.

By the way, I finally got time to put a gallery together of the living room remodel/HT.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=47313&id=1274259934&l=a6aa9ece88

I love my CC-590, but now that I have started to get used to what I have, I really think I want to upgrade to the CC-690 to balance out the Studio 100's up front and the Studio 60's in the back.

Yes I am a very proud owner of my Paradigm Studio's - absolutely beautiful speakers, sound and looks.

rnrgagne

12-29-09, 05:29 PM

I run dual subs as well, and my puny little C3 has no issues keeping up with the S8's for both dialog and output;

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z212/RNRGAGNE/DSC00886.jpg

That doesn't mean I won't updgrade at some point, just that EQ goes a long way like I said earlier.

The1stCav

12-29-09, 05:57 PM

rnrgagne - WOW.....those digm's are sexy :cool: love those subs!

rnrgagne

12-29-09, 06:03 PM

rnrgagne - WOW.....those digm's are sexy :cool: love those subs!

Yeah, nothing like taking the grills off for a little speaker porn! :D

The1stCav

12-29-09, 06:08 PM

Yeah, nothing like taking the grills off for a little speaker porn! :D

OMG my wife called it the same thing when she came home and caught me taking pictures of mine with the grills off. I almost just said "oops I need a towel" in response to your S8's and subs............Same diff I guess.

chester aldrid

12-29-09, 09:28 PM

Imacmil

I am selling 2 paradigm millenima 20's l/f r/f and a klipsch rc62 center channel for 600 bucks. They are around6to 8 months old the paradigms are piano black the klipsch is also black.

chester

cybrsage

12-29-09, 10:21 PM

jaamar1

12-30-09, 03:51 AM

Sorry I just looked at the picture;
I assumed the Marantz was a later model with Audyssey I know your's has a proprietary RC on board but since they switched to Audyssey I would assume it's not to the same level as what I'm talking about.
Also it's good to see passive treatments, that's a great start.

I did try with correction. After automatic calibration sound was worst. I keept distances and speaker volumes, but I decided to cancel parametric adjustments and setings for speakers small/big. It is better like this.
Perhaps correction programme I have is not as good as it should be? Or... maybe this is more complicated than only to run the peogramme. I will try to read about that in Audyssey thread.

Running dual subs is really tricky to get right and it could also be a source of the problem depending on their interaction with the cc. They're pretty close to the cc so a null or peak from them and/or the cc at the listening position affecting dialog is a possibility.

At this moment I have following speakers setup regarding small/big:
Front, surround, surround back - small, 70Hz corossover
Center - large
The reason for this is that I like high subwoofer output level. Maybe it is wrong??
Should I crossover center channel?
Is it possible to run system with high level of low frequences, but at the same time to keep overall sound clarity (?)

osofast240sx

12-30-09, 08:58 AM

oztech

12-30-09, 09:05 AM

chrisfromalbany

12-30-09, 09:13 AM

At this moment I have following speakers setup regarding small/big:
Front, surround, surround back - small, 70Hz corossover
Center - large
The reason for this is that I like high subwoofer output level. Maybe it is wrong??
Should I crossover center channel?
Is it possible to run system with high level of low frequences, but at the same time to keep overall sound clarity (?)

With both subs in the pic you have there I set the center to small personally. It also depends on the size of the room. But I would just test in large & small and see which one sounds better. I use the small and have two subs and larger size room.

Can you have sound clarity with high level of low frequency response? I guess it depends on what you consider sound clarity. I do think many will push there low level frequency response above what there components can handle in which case you have distortion. If done right and w/o this distortion then you have have a colored sound. The fact you have a greater response from the lower frequencies would cover up the mids, highs and this could be taken as loss of clarity. So it all depends. From my Theater purposes I like to inflate the lower frequencies and can live with this coloration/loss of clarity. ;)

Also what about bass traps for the corners.. I see the other treaties you have done which look nice.

rack04

12-30-09, 09:14 AM

Ah.... How about going to the local shop with a case of beer and sweet talking them a little bit... get to know them see what they can do to help you and what can you think of to win them over and make a friend.

That is how relationships begin I believe... :)

Well I called the shop I bought them at and they are more than happy to order the tweeter and ship it to me. Kudos to All Star Audio and Video in Houston.

chrisfromalbany

12-30-09, 09:15 AM

DreamCatcher

12-30-09, 11:56 AM

Anybody here listened to the new Paradigm SE's?

DreamCatcher

chester aldrid

12-30-09, 12:18 PM

Thanx I guess I'm just trying to get rid of these speakers with as little a hassle as possible. I guess I'm gonna try e-bay

chester

J Ritt

12-30-09, 02:25 PM

If anybody is interested in a CC-290 v.5 in like new condition (roughly 8 months old & very light use), I'm putting mine up for sale. I'm moving up to the Studio line from Paradigm for my front sound stage, so this one has to go. PM me for details. Thanks.

rnrgagne

12-30-09, 03:19 PM

I am surprised you aren't using a C5 as the center? What are you crossovers set at.

Maybe in time. Getting the S8's required some creative financing as it was.
But as I said the C3 has no issues keeping up in my 13'x24' room where I sit about 12' away.

If or when I upgrade it'll be mostly to go to the Be tweeter, and maybe a bit of ego too...but not need.

I x-over my CC @ 60hz and my mains at 40hz. The IB subs I run as discrete L/R + LFE.

rnrgagne

12-30-09, 03:51 PM

I did try with correction. After automatic calibration sound was worst. I keept distances and speaker volumes, but I decided to cancel parametric adjustments and setings for speakers small/big. It is better like this.
Perhaps correction programme I have is not as good as it should be? Or... maybe this is more complicated than only to run the peogramme. I will try to read about that in Audyssey thread.

At this moment I have following speakers setup regarding small/big:
Front, surround, surround back - small, 70Hz corossover
Center - large
The reason for this is that I like high subwoofer output level. Maybe it is wrong??
Should I crossover center channel?
Is it possible to run system with high level of low frequences, but at the same time to keep overall sound clarity (?)

I don't think your receiver has Audyssey. I think it's something called MRAC or the likes - which I'm unfamiliar with.

The main point I'm trying to make is unless your room is huge or you're sitting a mile away from the cc there's no reason for a cc of that quality not to be articulate. The problem has to lie elsewhere.

If you're running your CC as large and it's positioned in line with them that means that it will share the same peaks and nulls as your subs to the listening position from 80hz down to 20hz. It's most likely that a peak would affect dialog (drown it out) than a nul, but there is resonance below 80hz in the human voice.

As I stated earlier the bass is the most important thing to get right, it is the "foundation" of good audio - kind of like a clean canvas for a painting.
Some "purists" believe that EQ'ing below 250hz is all that's required, I disagree, but I'll concede it's the most important part to EQ.

I think the MRAC is a auto PEQ and if you don't like what it does for the top end, you can try what I did with good success with the YPAO in my Yamaha Z9 a while back. That is, I ran the auto-eq and then went in and re-set all the PEQ's manually to flat to all frequencies over 250hz, and left what it did untouched below that frequency.

The other thing you can do is look at what the auto EQ does in the bass frequencies; is it doing a major cut (+/- 6db) or boost below 100hz? If it's yes, then you could be sitting in a major null or peak. You can try to move your subs forward or backward until it doesn't have to do either as much, or placing one in the front and one at the back of the room to cancel the room modes out.

jaamar1

12-30-09, 04:14 PM

rnrgagne - thank you for your help :)

All things, which you are saying are "new" for me. I was thinking that sound equalization is strictly forbiden and we can not play with it :)))
I will try to play with MRAC (Marantz Room Acoustic Calibration).

Best regards

rnrgagne

12-30-09, 04:33 PM

ricardofeitoza

12-30-09, 07:16 PM

Can anyone recommend me a website that sells paradigm speakers? 6 ave used to sell a few models but it seems they re not availabe anymore!

Thanks in advance

M_Wesbur

12-30-09, 09:52 PM

Hi,
I'm new to the whole AV thing. Ran my Fischer speakers for 20 years off the old TV with no problems till the house was hit by lightning 2 years ago. Upgraded the TV to a Samsung 52" LCD last year. Decided to finally upgrade the audio as well. I have a BD-60 Blu-Ray and Xbox connected to the TV through HDMI and the Audio is routed back to an NAD T755 Receiver through an Optical cable. Don't get me started on what I think of a $1,300 Receiver not being able to handle Audio through HDMI. I thought I had done my research, but I seem to have missed that little detail.

It seems I'm heading into the rabbit hole pretty deep here and want to confirm I'm heading in the right direction before I make any more stupid mistakes. So please feel free to offer any advice as you see fit.

As previously stated, I picked up an NAD T755 to power what will eventually become a 5.1 system.

Ended up focusing on Paradigm Studio series speakers. I'm picking up a pair of V.4 Studio 100's from a Forum member this weekend. He invited me to check out this site and ask questions as needed. My plan is to pick up a 690 Center as quickly as possible and then fill in the rears and eventually a sub as finances allow (probably within a year or two at most). In my mind, the Center is the most important piece for me as I'm having trouble picking up dialog (and to think I'm not even 50 yet - argggg).

My room is 14.5 * 20.5 with an 8' ceiling. I would guess I will be running 80% HT and 20% music (mostly just FM radio). The youngest (21) does play quite a bit of Xbox when home from college.

Here is a diagram of my living room and a couple of pictures.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/mwesbur/Roomlayout.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/mwesbur/FrontLeft.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/mwesbur/FrontRight.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/mwesbur/Leftopen.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/mwesbur/Rear2.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/mwesbur/Rear1.jpg

I'm already over budget, but I always regret picking up something to just get-me-through. If I can get the LCR to start with, I think I will be happy for now. Adding surrounds later and eventually a sub should just keep improving things.

thx,
Mike

ps - I get the chair and the wife has the couch. First concern is that I'm lined up with the left speaker while the couch is pretty much centered nicely. I'm a good 45 degrees offset from the right speaker, so this could be a challenge. I don't really care to sit on the couch as I had lasic surgery done a few years ago that didn't turn out that well. The extra couple of feet back really changes what I can see, so I would prefer to keep using the chair.

Dathon

12-30-09, 09:56 PM

Can anyone recommend me a website that sells paradigm speakers? 6 ave used to sell a few models but it seems they re not availabe anymore!

Thanks in advance

I think your only choice are dealers. Look on Paradigm website for a dealer near you.

cassnlogan

12-30-09, 10:01 PM

I think your only choice are dealers. Look on Paradigm website for a dealer near you.

Or audiogon or craigslist. They are your friends if you can be patient.;)

ricardofeitoza

12-30-09, 10:24 PM

I think your only choice are dealers. Look on Paradigm website for a dealer near you.

Or audiogon or craigslist. They are your friends if you can be patient.;)

Thanks guys!

stephenmcgauley

12-30-09, 11:04 PM

Anybody here listened to the new Paradigm SE's?

DreamCatcher

I wish that I have, but my store here in St. Louis said that they wont arrive until the beginning of the year, in about 2 or 3 weeks. From what I was told by my shop is that the SE's are simply studio speakers in a monitor box at a slightly cheaper price than the studios. i.e the SE 3 are the studio 60's for 500 dollars less in the monitor box. The question will be how much that box affects the tonal quality of the speaker

stephenmcgauley

12-30-09, 11:50 PM

bowmah

12-31-09, 03:06 AM

My plan is to pick up a 690 Center as quickly as possible and then fill in the rears and eventually a sub as finances allow (probably within a year or two at most). In my mind, the Center is the most important piece for me as I'm having trouble picking up dialog (and to think I'm not even 50 yet - argggg).

The C690 is a great center, no doubt about it. But it sounds like you are going to have to stretch your budget, which is ok. But only stretch it if you want to and don't let the dialogue dictate a higher priced center. I, along with many other users, also had a difficult time with hearing dialogue. Then one thing change the entire HT experience. Audyssey setup from a newer Denon A/V receiver. MultEQ, Dynamic EQ along with dynamic volume made a huge difference in calibrating speakers levels and most importantly, dialogue is 100 times easier to understand than before an Audyssey receiver. It took a few days of testing and tweaking as Denon's are not that easy to setup. But after it was calibrated and tweaked (3 times), movies are MUCH better than they were before Audyssey and the new receiver.

Again, don't let my comments deter from you a great center like the 690 but I just don't want to see someone spend extra money just for the sake of poor dialogue. Believe me, I know what you are going through. For the longest time, I wanted a new center as well. After the new Denon receiver (with Audyssey) that urge is now gone. :)

Not sure if you have a friend who can lend you a receiver with Audyssey. Hope that helps and good luck.

jaamar1

12-31-09, 05:28 AM

So please feel free to offer any advice as you see fit.

If you can - take out your wall unit set ;)
My suggestions for this you can find in the attached files.

Regards

M_Wesbur

12-31-09, 06:41 AM

If you can - take out your wall unit set ;)
My suggestions for this you can find in the attached files.

Regards

All I can say is WOW - I had no idea what was in the attachments, but finding my own living room photo-shopped caught me off guard. This definitely gave me a chuckle and I do like the look. :)

But while the whole minimalistic approach has merit, the entertainment center is proving to be a great way to hide all our movies, video games / controllers, etc. We only have one small coat closet for storage on the main floor of the house, so I will probably pass on this one. Although, after I show my wife the pictures, you never know what direction we might head…..

M_Wesbur

12-31-09, 07:06 AM

The C690 is a great center, no doubt about it. But it sounds like you are going to have to stretch your budget, which is ok. But only stretch it if you want to and don't let the dialogue dictate a higher priced center. I, along with many other users, also had a difficult time with hearing dialogue. Then one thing change the entire HT experience. Audyssey setup from a newer Denon A/V receiver. MultEQ, Dynamic EQ along with dynamic volume made a huge difference in calibrating speakers levels and most importantly, dialogue is 100 times easier to understand than before an Audyssey receiver. It took a few days of testing and tweaking as Denon's are not that easy to setup. But after it was calibrated and tweaked (3 times), movies are MUCH better than they were before Audyssey and the new receiver.

Again, don't let my comments deter from you a great center like the 690 but I just don't want to see someone spend extra money just for the sake of poor dialogue. Believe me, I know what you are going through. For the longest time, I wanted a new center as well. After the new Denon receiver (with Audyssey) that urge is now gone. :)

Not sure if you have a friend who can lend you a receiver with Audyssey. Hope that helps and good luck.

The NAD T755 I picked up a couple of weeks ago does have an Audyssey calibration feature, I just don’t have anything to calibrate yet.

My 20-year-old floor standing Fischer’s have a 10” sub, 5” mid and 3” tweet. 95% of all sound (including dialog) comes out of the subs. I’m not sure if there is something wrong with the speaker crossovers or if this is how they were designed. I actually think they still sound pretty warm (if I’m understanding the term correctly) and fill the room ok, they just don’t have the clarity I would like. Even so, these are a big improvement to the TV speakers we've been listening to for the last couple of years.

I don’t currently have a Center, so that is probably the biggest problem. An older CC-170 would probably knock my socks off compared to what I have, but I’m heading to the 690 if at all possible so I don’t have regrets later.

Kimwyn

12-31-09, 07:36 AM

The C690 is a great center, no doubt about it. But it sounds like you are going to have to stretch your budget, which is ok. But only stretch it if you want to and don't let the dialogue dictate a higher priced center. I, along with many other users, also had a difficult time with hearing dialogue. Then one thing change the entire HT experience. Audyssey setup from a newer Denon A/V receiver. MultEQ, Dynamic EQ along with dynamic volume made a huge difference in calibrating speakers levels and most importantly, dialogue is 100 times easier to understand than before an Audyssey receiver. It took a few days of testing and tweaking as Denon's are not that easy to setup. But after it was calibrated and tweaked (3 times), movies are MUCH better than they were before Audyssey and the new receiver.

Again, don't let my comments deter from you a great center like the 690 but I just don't want to see someone spend extra money just for the sake of poor dialogue. Believe me, I know what you are going through. For the longest time, I wanted a new center as well. After the new Denon receiver (with Audyssey) that urge is now gone. :)

Not sure if you have a friend who can lend you a receiver with Audyssey. Hope that helps and good luck.

i know this is a bit of topic in here but why are you making it sound like Denons and Audyssey is the ONLY thing that could fix his problems. Is Audyssey the only program that could calibrate Paradigm speakers? cant Pioneer's MCACC calibrate it? what about Anthem's ARC? I know you probably like Denon and Audyssey but please dont make it seem like the "one all be all end all".

jaamar1

12-31-09, 08:57 AM

But while the whole minimalistic approach has merit, the entertainment center is proving to be a great way to hide all our movies, video games / controllers, etc...

Another vision :)
I think, that you should go with minimal number of furnitures. Ask your wife ;) She will help you...
For center channel you can use existing cabinet (only center part). In this case two panels from your ferniture will be ready to use.

cassnlogan

12-31-09, 09:08 AM

I am considering buying a pair of studio 20's v.4 but what is the proper matching center channel to the v.4? can it be often be found online ebay/audiogon? because I have found it harder to find centers online, and how much should I expect to pay for it online?

The Studio CC would be the matching center for the 20's. It can be found on audiogon from time to time or possibly on craigslist, which is where I picked mine up. I'm new to Paradigm so I'm sure some of the others here will have more insight. Good luck.:)

osofast240sx

12-31-09, 09:15 AM

The NAD T755 I picked up a couple of weeks ago does have an Audyssey calibration feature, I just don’t have anything to calibrate yet.

My 20-year-old floor standing Fischer’s have a 10” sub, 5” mid and 3” tweet. 95% of all sound (including dialog) comes out of the subs. I’m not sure if there is something wrong with the speaker crossovers or if this is how they were designed. I actually think they still sound pretty warm (if I’m understanding the term correctly) and fill the room ok, they just don’t have the clarity I would like. Even so, these are a big improvement to the TV speakers we've been listening to for the last couple of years.

I don’t currently have a Center, so that is probably the biggest problem. An older CC-170 would probably knock my socks off compared to what I have, but I’m heading to the 690 if at all possible so I don’t have regrets later.you may need to add some room treatments.

BillY2KFRC

12-31-09, 10:22 AM

The1stCav

12-31-09, 10:33 AM

Has anybody used the CC690 center with Studio 20s as front channels? Would that be overkill and would I be better off using the 590?

I had the Studio 20's v.5 for a short time (3 weeks) as rear's (Using 60's v.5 for fronts) so I think I can answer this question from personal experience - sort of.

I own the CC-590 v.5 as well and when I was running that set up it was basically balanced, though the CC-590 was slightly (imo) pushing the "too small" side of things, everything was still great sound and I could not hear one overpowering another.

I ended up having to return the 20's and get 100's for the fronts and moved the 60's to the rears. Now the CC-590 works to keep pace - again in my opinion. If my entertainment cabinet did not have a center channel opening that fit the CC-590 like a glove, I really would move to a CC-690 in a heart beat.

So using this scenario I faced I would have to say that the CC-590 would be equal or greater than what you would need for Studio 20's as front's. I think you will find that CC-590 will handle everything and more without a doubt. Paradigm pairs the CC-590 with the 20's I think and then its a toss up between the 590 and 690 if you go with 60's for fronts, then it works to a 690 without a doubt if you run 100's as fronts.

I hope all that rambling helps. Happy New Year.

rnrgagne

12-31-09, 11:09 AM

i know this is a bit of topic in here but why are you making it sound like Denons and Audyssey is the ONLY thing that could fix his problems. Is Audyssey the only program that could calibrate Paradigm speakers? cant Pioneer's MCACC calibrate it? what about Anthem's ARC? I know you probably like Denon and Audyssey but please dont make it seem like the "one all be all end all".

I don't think he was promoting Denon as much as the benfits of room correction in general.

I don't beilieve MCACC is on the same level as Audyssey or ARC, the "advanced" version found in the higher end models might be, but I'm not certain. You're not going to get ARC in a unit under $5k so I don't think it fits the context of the above discussions.

In general though I agree with you, any room correction is better than none especially in the lower frequencies.

rnrgagne

12-31-09, 12:10 PM

I had the Studio 20's v.5 for a short time (3 weeks) as rear's (Using 60's v.5 for fronts) so I think I can answer this question from personal experience - sort of.

I own the CC-590 v.5 as well and when I was running that set up it was basically balanced, though the CC-590 was slightly (imo) pushing the "too small" side of things, everything was still great sound and I could not hear one overpowering another.

.

I apologize in advance, but it's my nature to try and help even though advice has been unsolicited. ;)

Looking at your pics, I'll bet the the difference you hear in the cc's ability to keep up has more to do with changing its placement than the mains. Before you had it firing directly to the listening position and likely only getting first reflections off the glass coffee table as a negative. The new placement will affect how it sounds by virtue of being in a cabinet, there's no way around that because of the speakers radiation pattern not being a "straight line", but more significant is the role the glass coffee table now plays. Pics can mislead depth perception but it looks like the cc is firing directly into it, so not only is the first reflection still in play but you've likely got a splitting of frequencies affected at the distance it's at. So combined there's three possible negatives in the new placement. (Distance of the impediment is the key factor to how it will affect the sound and like I said pics can be misleading.)
A glass table between the speakers and listening position is a no -no to begin with, and I'd recommend a thick table cloth with some texture to it over top. You're not going to go out and get a new stand, so if you've got some room to angle the CC upward at all you should give it a shot.
One other note, the 100's are quite good in the bottom end and corner loading them the way you have them will only bloat their bass. Ideally the mains should never be the same distance from the side wall as they are from the back wall. Move them forward if you can, and closer to the stand. Generally to set up mains you should play some two channel music you're very familiar with and experiment with placement until you get the best balance of soundstaging or imaging and bass accuracy. (Before running any EQ)

chrisfromalbany

12-31-09, 12:21 PM

chrisfromalbany

12-31-09, 12:40 PM

Maybe in time. Getting the S8's required some creative financing as it was.
But as I said the C3 has no issues keeping up in my 13'x24' room where I sit about 12' away.

If or when I upgrade it'll be mostly to go to the Be tweeter, and maybe a bit of ego too...but not need.

I x-over my CC @ 60hz and my mains at 40hz. The IB subs I run as discrete L/R + LFE.

I didn't notice that you had the version 1s of the signature series. So for $300 you could replace the tweeter with a Be tweeter and tell everyone the difference you hear between the two. I got to be honest in your situation I would think that would be a option. I can't imagine the network in the speaker is much different from the version 1s to the version 2s. And I think it would be a drop in replacement right, when you order a replacement driver the give you the whole metal encasement that goes along with it.

Now you have two front subs and one back sub? what is the back sub (if you do have one) and how to get calibrate the delay between two different subs to run well together?

BTW.. what is creative financing?

rnrgagne

12-31-09, 12:50 PM

I didn't notice that you had the version 1s of the signature series. So for $300 you could replace the tweeter with a Be tweeter and tell everyone the difference you hear between the two. I got to be honest in your situation I would think that would be a option I would think about. I can't imagine the network in the speaker is much different from the version 1s to the version 2s.

BTW.. what is creative financing? you have two front subs and one back sub? what is the back sub if you do have one and how to get calibrate the delay between two different subs?

I would be reluctant to do that since a critical element of speaker design is the the crossover network you mentioned, the v2's and v3's likely have a crossover designed with the Be tweeters' characteristics in mind and the v1's don't.

Creative financing = selling old gear and convincing the wife the upgrade cost wasn't significant... ;)

I've only got the two IB subs, nothing in the rear. They get discrete L/R signals and the LFE channel is sent to both.

I use the Audyssey Pro in the AVP to calibrate my subs, it could do front/back too if I had that kind of set up. A lot of built in EQ's can handle that task now actually.

chrisfromalbany

12-31-09, 01:00 PM

I would be reluctant to do that since a critical element of speaker design is the the crossover network you mentioned, the v2's and v3's likely have a crossover designed with the Be tweeters' characteristics in mind and the v1's don't.

Creative financing = selling old gear and convincing the wife the upgrade cost wasn't significant... ;)

I've only got the two IB subs, nothing in the rear. They get discrete L/R signals and the LFE channel is sent to both.

I use the Audyssey Pro in the AVP to calibrate my subs, it could do front/back too if I had that kind of set up. A lot of built in EQ's can handle that task now actually.

Getting the wife to go along with the upgrade always hard part..
[wife..] (But why you have a great system already, how much better can it get)

I had heard of other people doing to replacement to save me and it went well. Although the price difference for getting this components used is that great so when buying used I don't think I would pick up a used v1 over a used v2. And v3 doesn't really interest me too much because it isn't enough of an upgrade in SQ.

So if you watch concerts on bluray..

which ones do you have.. Which are your favorite?

John Mayer (into the light)
Police (Certifiable)
Jeff Beck (one week only)
NIN (Beside You in Time)
Killers Albert Hall? (recently came out in 1080i but SQ is really good and crowd is like no other)
Blu-men (didn't look great but found bass very interesting when is a nice setup)

jaamar1

12-31-09, 01:13 PM

As far as the Studio 100v4 they are a nice speaker and should would pretty solidly as your front speakers. I don't exactly like the idea on them being tight to the wall in both corners but you have to work with what you got.

What do you think about my proposal for that ? See attached picture

chrisfromalbany

12-31-09, 01:57 PM

What do you think about my proposal for that ? See attached picture

well hoping there is space between the back wall and the speaker.

I prefer that the right speaker has a little space between the side wall and the back wall, and that these two spaces not be equal. Also I pigeon toe the speakers to help.

I would say these steps and just listen to the setup and changing things a little to see if you can find a setup you personally like better. You have to trust your ears.

Also might put something under the center speaker to project it upwards if it isn't already at listen height.

rnrgagne

12-31-09, 03:16 PM

So if you watch concerts on bluray..

which ones do you have.. Which are your favorite?

John Mayer (into the light)
Police (Certifiable)
Jeff Beck (one week only)
NIN (Beside You in Time)
Killers Albert Hall? (recently came out in 1080i but SQ is really good and crowd is like no other)
Blu-men (didn't look great but found bass very interesting when is a nice setup)

I'm a HUGE live concert DVD & Blu Ray fan. I have probably around 75 titles, with Blu Ray topping the pile for audio quality.

Of the Blu Ray titles my favorite based solely on audio quality is Pat Metheney's "The Way Up Live". I'm not a huge Jazz fan, but this is an outstanding recording.

Probably my favorite concert Blu Ray based on music and quality combined (and one I keep coming back to all the time) is Jeff Beck's "Live at Ronnie Scott's". The Police "Certifiable" is probably a close second.
I have "Into the Light" on DVD, and I'm kicking myself for not waiting till it came out on Blu Ray. It's an excellent concert DVD and I wish Mayer would entrench himself more into his blues guitar roots, IMO that's his true calling. I bought his latest CD and was disappointed with the vanilla mainstream music on it.
I'm lying a bit when I say "favorite" because all music is different and I may prefer to listen to Leonard Cohen one night and ZZ Top the next LOL. Anyways this is off topic for this thread...

chrisfromalbany

12-31-09, 03:53 PM

I'm a HUGE live concert DVD & Blu Ray fan. I have probably around 75 titles, with Blu Ray topping the pile for audio quality.

Of the Blu Ray titles my favorite based solely on audio quality is Pat Metheney's "The Way Up Live". I'm not a huge Jazz fan, but this is an outstanding recording.

Probably my favorite concert Blu Ray based on music and quality combined (and one I keep coming back to all the time) is Jeff Beck's "Live at Ronnie Scott's". The Police "Certifiable" is probably a close second.
I have "Into the Light" on DVD, and I'm kicking myself for not waiting till it came out on Blu Ray. It's an excellent concert DVD and I wish Mayer would entrench himself more into his blues guitar roots, IMO that's his true calling. I bought his latest CD and was disappointed with the vanilla mainstream music on it.
I'm lying a bit when I say "favorite" because all music is different and I may prefer to listen to Leonard Cohen one night and ZZ Top the next LOL. Anyways this is off topic for this thread...

Well I an agree on the John Mayer latest album. The Assassin song at that last album was the only one that reminded me of the previous album. And the bluray is going to be a step up in PQ and SQ. The middle section with the trio is the best part of that concert.

Some of the Chris Botti blurays are nice. The lastest one with two songs done with sting were nice.

Jeff Beck is more less a classic.. I figured you have that one.

Problem I have with the Police is aren't are all that into it. I saw them earlier on in that tour and it was a better performance. So even as good as it is.. I feel a little badly about it.

Killers which I am guessing isn't exactly you style of music but the energy of the crowd and the band is fantastic(not to mention all the camera used for shooting). That to me is something you can't put a price on.

Keane (o2 Arena) that is good again not sure you like there music. I happen to like many different types

kings of leon - (o2 Arena) pretty good.. sounds good.. energy maybe 4 out of 5.

Still waiting in U2, Radiohead, Tool Bluray's to come out.

rnrgagne

12-31-09, 05:08 PM

Problem I have with the Police is aren't are all that into it. I saw them earlier on in that tour and it was a better performance. So even as good as it is.. I feel a little badly about it.

Same here, saw the concert live too. (My system sounds 10x better than GM Place LOL!) But to me the Blu Ray is all about Copeland - he's worth the price of admission.

I've been wanting to buy the Kings of Leon at the O2 BD but it hasn't hit the shelves here yet for some reason. I'm impressed with that band.

ayrton

12-31-09, 07:42 PM

I see the Paradigm guys not only have good taste in speakers, but Blu Ray concert reviews too. ;)

Happy New Year all!

JohnGZ28

12-31-09, 07:52 PM

i know this is a bit of topic in here but why are you making it sound like Denons and Audyssey is the ONLY thing that could fix his problems. Is Audyssey the only program that could calibrate Paradigm speakers? cant Pioneer's MCACC calibrate it? what about Anthem's ARC? I know you probably like Denon and Audyssey but please dont make it seem like the "one all be all end all".

I think you are reading WAY to much into his post. He did not come across as if Audyssey was then end all be all he simply spoke on what he was familiar with rather than pulling stuff out of the crack of his a** like a lot of others try to do.

weird 23

12-31-09, 08:26 PM

Has anybody used the CC690 center with Studio 20s as front channels? Would that be overkill and would I be better off using the 590?

Also, I currently have the SVS SCS-01 setup and while I'm very happy with it, I'm considering going up a step to CC590 or 690, Studio 20s for fronts and ADP-590 rears in a 5.1 config. Power will come from a Pioneer VSX-23/Emotiva UPA-5 combo. Has anybody compared the sound of these two speakers? What can I expect? This is primarily for movies/TV/games and very little music.

Thank you.

I have never heard a 690 before but I used the cc 390 v6 before upgrading to the 590. The 390 had sounded bigger but the sq wasn't as good as the 590. I'm using the studio 20 v5 as my mains and the 590 goes quite well with them. I would imagine the 690 is a better speaker but unsure if the 20's would keep up, I would think that the 690 would also require more power than the 590. I'm happy with 590 in my system right now, if I were to go with bigger mains it would have be the 690.

HTtom

12-31-09, 09:45 PM

I finally got my new Studio 10s (rosenut) set up for NYE. I broke them in over the last month in the living room while I finished redoing the bedroom with new furniture, lighting, paint and grasscloth. The nightstands are 29" tall, letting me eliminate the J29 stands from both the budget and taking up space in the room. Both are sitting on a thin layer of felt cut just smaller than the speaker. You can't see it, and it keeps the nightstand and speakers from scratching each other. Power comes from a Panasonic XR55. No pics of that tonight, I haven't got the speaker wire completely hidden under the baseboard yet. My first priority was getting everything set up so it's ready when my gf and I get back from the NYE party.

Flickr gallery: here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46075834@N07/sets/72157622986191483/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4232754696_1ff5f68e24_o.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2658/4232754702_dd8f4e9dcc_o.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2793/4232754710_bf4ccfabf4_o.png

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4231992411_ce0fd3b697_o.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2631/4231992413_8a0ac47597_o.png

The1stCav

01-01-10, 11:56 AM

Happy New Year to all - may your Paradigms sound just as good if not better this year as they did last.

John WL

01-01-10, 12:09 PM

First of all it's nice to be part of the Paradigm family now :D After demoing some Paradigm Signature S6 speakers in November, I knew they were something special. Communicating with Warpdrv, Bigred7078, and reading postings from hifisponge and others I decided to take the plunge :).

I purchased a pair of Signature S6 v2's and a C3 v2 from a local dealer hear in Houston. They were floor models, but they were all in pristine condition, and I was able to get a deal that I did not want to pass up.

I currently own a pair of Emotiva ERD-1's bipole/dipoles for my surrounds. I have them set in bipole mode and they are on the rear wall behind my head. I have been using REW software and a dbx condenser microphone to tweak and equalize the rears to match my fronts (using the built in equalizer in my Denon 3806). The problem is that I still notice the difference in timbre and it is starting to bug me...especially with music. My room dimensions are 18' (long) x 13' (wide) x 9' (tall).

So here are my questions:

1) Would a parametric equalizer solve most of this problem?
2) If not, would upgrading to a direct firing speaker like the Signature S1 help?
3) If I did upgrade to the Signature S1, could I still place them on the rear wall pointing at my listening position, or should I place them directly on either side wall?
4) Any user experience with the Signature S1 versus a different Paradigm surround?

I value all of your advice. Any thought would be appreciated.

John

cassnlogan

01-01-10, 12:09 PM

rnrgagne

01-01-10, 12:47 PM

1) Would a parametric equalizer solve most of this problem?
2) If not, would upgrading to a direct firing speaker like the Signature S1 help?
3) If I did upgrade to the Signature S1, could I still place them on the rear wall pointing at my listening position, or should I place them directly on either side wall?

I value all of your advice. Any thought would be appreciated.

John

Hi John,

First off congrats on your new Sigs!

I would not go with direct radiators for surrounds for your setup. Dipoles or adaptive dipoles (ADP's) are perfect for that lay out. If you feel the need to change, obviously Sig ADP's would be the ticket but, Studio ADP's would voice extremely close if budget is tight.

I know I sound like an Audyssey shill but, timber matching is an area where it will help, and frankly it's far more accurate of a tool than manual EQ because of the work it does in the time domain.

Before you go out and spend more money, (unless you really want to and this is just an excuse..;)) go to giomanias guide and follow the instructions there paying attention to things that mirror your configuration;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

I don't know if the 3806 has upgradeable firmware or not but if it does I'd check Denon's site to see if there's an update available. The reason I say this is because I know the Audyssey XT platform had an upgrade which improved the bass performance and I don't know if it was after the Denon (06) series came out or before..

BRAC

01-01-10, 12:55 PM

rnrgagne

01-01-10, 01:21 PM

I have my S1's corner loaded on stands, toed in towards the main listening position, and they sound great used in this configuration.

That's closer to an SACD lay-out and there's nothing wrong with that and there's no doubt it sounds good.

The dipole concept is based on creating a bit more diffusion. If you look at his pics, the way he has them placed is textbook for that application. You get back steering from the drivers pointing inside and side steering from the drivers reflecting off the side walls the effect is a bit more enveloping for a "near-field" set up like he has.

I use ADP's for my sides because I have a narrow room and sit only about 6' from them, and anyone sitting on either side of me is even closer.

JohnGZ28

01-01-10, 01:24 PM

skid_68

01-01-10, 01:50 PM

Quick question for ya. I currently have the monitor 9's v5 and a monitor cc290 v5. Would I hear much difference going from my 290 to a Studio cc590 v5?

BRAC

01-01-10, 01:57 PM

That's closer to an SACD lay-out and there's nothing wrong with that and there's no doubt it sounds good.

The dipole concept is based on creating a bit more diffusion. If you look at his pics, the way he has them placed is textbook for that application. You get back steering from the drivers pointing inside and side steering from the drivers reflecting off the side walls the effect is a bit more enveloping for a "near-field" set up like he has.

I use ADP's for my sides because I have a narrow room and sit only about 6' from them, and anyone sitting on either side of me is even closer.

I understand perfectly what you are saying. I was basically just answering his questions regarding the S1's.

Personally, I've had both types of configurations and I think overall I prefer the direct radiating sound, but to each his own.;) Having said that, I don't have any experience with Paradigm, or any other, dipoles in my current room. I was kind of limited due to my room layout in the beginning, so that kind of ruled out dipoles this time around.

John WL

01-01-10, 02:34 PM

Hi John,

First off congrats on your new Sigs!

I would not go with direct radiators for surrounds for your setup. Dipoles or adaptive dipoles (ADP's) are perfect for that lay out. If you feel the need to change, obviously Sig ADP's would be the ticket but, Studio ADP's would voice extremely close if budget is tight.

I know I sound like an Audyssey shill but, timber matching is an area where it will help, and frankly it's far more accurate of a tool than manual EQ because of the work it does in the time domain.

Before you go out and spend more money, (unless you really want to and this is just an excuse..;)) go to giomanias guide and follow the instructions there paying attention to things that mirror your configuration;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

I don't know if the 3806 has upgradeable firmware or not but if it does I'd check Denon's site to see if there's an update available. The reason I say this is because I know the Audyssey XT platform had an upgrade which improved the bass performance and I don't know if it was after the Denon (06) series came out or before..

Thanks rnrgagne and it's good to be in the family. :D I have not played with Audyssey too much in the past. I think it is time for me to read a little bit more about it and see if I can improve my results. That would be much cheaper than buying a new set of speakers or a parametric equalizer. I looked at the Denon website and I found no updates to Audyssey. I have done some reading and I realize that I have an early iteration of Audyssey so maybe an upgrade in a processor is in order. I looked up the Paradigms ADP's and they are a bit more than I wanted to spend. But, it is good to know that the ADP configuration would work well with my room. Decisions, decisions, decisions :D

I'm using S1's as rears with my S2/C3 front setup and the timbre match is perfect. As far as placement, you may have to experiment a little to see what sounds best. I have my S1's corner loaded on stands, toed in towards the main listening position, and they sound great used in this configuration.

Thanks for the response BRAC. :D I wanted to make sure that the Paradigm speakers timbre matched well across all of their speakers in their line. I know they should, but I like to hear "real world" experiences with the different models. Especially, with speakers with different size drivers.

I am going to go back to my home audio room and experiment with the Audyssey set-up. I am hoping this helps out. I will let you guys know what comes out of this. And again, thanks for the great advice :D

John

BRAC

01-01-10, 02:47 PM

John WL,

Sounds like you are on the right track. IMHO, Audyssey is a wonderful tool, and I make full use of the MultEQ XT in my Denon 3808. In fact, I won't run my rig without it. It's that good!!!

Erik Tracy

01-01-10, 03:38 PM

How do you determine what version the different speakers from Paradigm are the most current ones?

I've gone to the Paradigm website but they don't specify if the v5 or v2 or v22 is the most current for a given speaker.

Thanks,
Erik

rnrgagne

01-01-10, 04:25 PM

Thanks rnrgagne and it's good to be in the family. :D I have not played with Audyssey too much in the past. I think it is time for me to read a little bit more about it and see if I can improve my results. That would be much cheaper than buying a new set of speakers or a parametric equalizer. I looked at the Denon website and I found no updates to Audyssey. I have done some reading and I realize that I have an early iteration of Audyssey so maybe an upgrade in a processor is in order. I looked up the Paradigms ADP's and they are a bit more than I wanted to spend. But, it is good to know that the ADP configuration would work well with my room. Decisions, decisions, decisions :D

Thanks for the response BRAC. :D I wanted to make sure that the Paradigm speakers timbre matched well across all of their speakers in their line. I know they should, but I like to hear "real world" experiences with the different models. Especially, with speakers with different size drivers.

I am going to go back to my home audio room and experiment with the Audyssey set-up. I am hoping this helps out. I will let you guys know what comes out of this. And again, thanks for the great advice :D

John

The Audyssey upgrade would probably be "packaged" in a general upgrade. You could ask Denon support, they should know.
The improvement was in the bass resolution so it won't affect what you're after too much (timber matching).

Do read that guide I linked, it's an excellent "how to".

I should correct myself on the textbook placement for your dipoles, ideally they should be on the side walls so you're sitting in line with the null (middle) of the dipole. There's nothing wrong with where they are, it's just not optimum for a 5.1 set up. I think I had 7.1 on the brain earlier..

rnrgagne

01-01-10, 04:40 PM

I understand perfectly what you are saying. I was basically just answering his questions regarding the S1's.

Personally, I've had both types of configurations and I think overall I prefer the direct radiating sound, but to each his own.;) Having said that, I don't have any experience with Paradigm, or any other, dipoles in my current room. I was kind of limited due to my room layout in the beginning, so that kind of ruled out dipoles this time around.

Gotcha.
The ADPs are very good at being directional when the material calls for it and perhaps that's the "adaptive" part.

The1stCav

01-01-10, 04:43 PM

Erik Tracy

01-01-10, 05:22 PM

Erik Tracy - Studio's are up to v.5 currently, released earlier this year............I think around May or March if memory serves me correctly (it does fail me at times the older I get so don't quote me). The only reason I know that is because I purchased my Studios in October and the sales guy was telling me that when I bought them.

Thanks.

But one would think that Paradigm's site would be specific for each line and model within each line as to what version is the current one.

I've been eyeing some used Paradigm's - from both the Studio and Signature lines and its a bit confusing to know if all lines are up to v5 or v2 or ??

How can one tell from the Paradigm site that the Studio 20 is v5?

Erik

rnrgagne

01-01-10, 05:27 PM

Thanks.

But one would think that Paradigm's site would be specific for each line and model within each line as to what version is the current one.

I've been eyeing some used Paradigm's - from both the Studio and Signature lines and its a bit confusing to know if all lines are up to v5 or v2 or ??

How can one tell from the Paradigm site that the Studio 20 is v5?

Erik

Paradigms lines are all in different stages, the Studios are up to v.5 and the Signatures are up to v.3 for instance.

The simple rule of thumb for their website is every version that's on there is the most current for that line. You'd have to go to the archives for a past version.

skid_68

01-01-10, 05:29 PM

Thanks.

But one would think that Paradigm's site would be specific for each line and model within each line as to what version is the current one.

I've been eyeing some used Paradigm's - from both the Studio and Signature lines and its a bit confusing to know if all lines are up to v5 or v2 or ??

How can one tell from the Paradigm site that the Studio 20 is v5?

Erik

Well its kind of hard to tell on paradigms site. But the v5's have a different cabinet. Its more rounded all the way around the back. Here is a pic of a v4 and v5 studio. Although the v5 is the 10. You still get the idea.

V4
http://www.audiocafe.co.kr/admin/20080701busanparadigm/DSC00157.jpg
V5
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3325/3251581188_b6def88e77_b.jpg

Erik Tracy

01-01-10, 05:30 PM

Paradigms lines are all in different stages, the Studios are up to v.5 and the Signatures are up to v.3 for instance.

The simple rule of thumb for their website is every version that's on there is the most current for that line. You'd have to go to the archives for a past version.

But how do you know that?

Going to the archives does not reveal version numbers.

rnrgagne

01-01-10, 05:56 PM

But how do you know that?

Well, because I'm bordering on genius.. ;)

Actually, just years of visting their site and comon sense. Historically, the site is upgraded to the new version as soon as the line is released for sale. I haven't been to the archives for ages so I don't know how it's set up any more.

weird 23

01-01-10, 08:11 PM

I'm using S1's as rears with my S2/C3 front setup and the timbre match is perfect. As far as placement, you may have to experiment a little to see what sounds best. I have my S1's corner loaded on stands, toed in towards the main listening position, and they sound great used in this configuration.
I just got the studio 20 v5 and cc 590 v5 this year but like everyone else on this site I'm thinking of the next upgrade. It's been narrowed down to the studio 60 v5 with the cc 690 or the s2/s4 with c3. What are your thoughts on the s2/c3 combo? What are you driving them with? I'm using a pioneer elite sc 07 and don't really want to buy an amp yet unless absolutly necessary. Would adding another sub 15 and sticking with the studio's be better? Looking for any thoughts on the s2/s4 with c3 combo, v2 or v3.

rnrgagne

01-01-10, 08:44 PM

I just got the studio 20 v5 and cc 590 v5 this year but like everyone else on this site I'm thinking of the next upgrade. It's been narrowed down to the studio 60 v5 with the cc 690 or the s2/s4 with c3. What are your thoughts on the s2/c3 combo? What are you driving them with? I'm using a pioneer elite sc 07 and don't really want to buy an amp yet unless absolutly necessary. Would adding another sub 15 and sticking with the studio's be better? Looking for any thoughts on the s2/s4 with c3 combo, v2 or v3.

Depends on what you're after and how big your room is really. What do you want to improve or want more of?

For music the Signature line would be the ticket without a doubt. With the Sub 15 already in the mix the choice between the S2's or S4's would depend on how big the room is and how far away you're sitting. (If you're talking v.3's there's no more S4's though.)

If you're mostly into movies, the Studio series is likely the best use of your dollar.

The receiver you have now will have enough power no matter which way you go.

dutchca

01-01-10, 08:46 PM

weird 23

01-01-10, 08:55 PM

Depends on what you're after and how big your room is really. What do you want to improve or want more of?

For music the Signature line would be the ticket without a doubt. With the Sub 15 already in the mix the choice between the S2's or S4's would depend on how big the room is and how far away you're sitting. (If you're talking v.3's there's no more S4's though.)

If you're mostly into movies, the Studio series is likely the best use of your dollar.

The receiver you have now will have enough power no matter which way you go.
My room is 17 x 25 x8. I'm looking for a smoother sound would be how I would describe it. This system would be mostly for movies as I would like a 2 channel system in another part of the house. I sit somewhere between 10-12 feet awat from the speakers, can't remember which one it is. Later this year I'm going to try some room treatments. So would adding another Sub 15 be better for this system and save the sigs for 2 channel. I asked about the s4 because I wouldn't have a problem buying used v2's.

weird 23

01-01-10, 08:59 PM

Hey folks, looking for some input on a TV stand that can be used with a CC390. Big centre channel that takes up a lot of real estate, I can't seem to find any table-top type stands that have room for my center channel.

What are people using?

Thanks.
I used to have the cc 390 v6 and I use the Sanus Systems WFV66 and it works great.

Stylz25

01-01-10, 10:20 PM

I was wondering if anyone knows how much the Paradigm Monitor 11 5.1 system goes for in Canada? MSRP? 2 Monitor 11's, 2 ADP-390's, 1 CC-290 and the DSP-3200? Thanks.

weird 23

01-01-10, 10:46 PM

I was wondering if anyone knows how much the Paradigm Monitor 11 5.1 system goes for in Canada? MSRP? 2 Monitor 11's, 2 ADP-390's, 1 CC-290 and the DSP-3200? Thanks.

Monitor 11 $1000 plus tax
Adp 390 $600 plus tax
cc 290 $400-$430 plus tax
Dsp 3200 $600 plus tax
That's what a friend of mine paid for the 11's and cc 290 and what I paid for the adp's and 3200. I would go for the 3400 instead.

Stylz25

01-01-10, 10:49 PM

Monitor 11 $1000 plus tax
Adp 390 $600 plus tax
cc 290 $400-$430 plus tax
Dsp 3200 $600 plus tax
That's what a friend of mine paid for the 11's and cc 290 and what I paid for the adp's and 3200. I would go for the 3400 instead.

Sweet thanks for the info!! And why would you go for the 3400 instead? just curious and do both of you like your purchase? reason i ask is I am still considering other speakers like Klipsch or Polk.......thanks again

rnrgagne

01-01-10, 11:12 PM

My room is 17 x 25 x8. I'm looking for a smoother sound would be how I would describe it. This system would be mostly for movies as I would like a 2 channel system in another part of the house. I sit somewhere between 10-12 feet awat from the speakers, can't remember which one it is. Later this year I'm going to try some room treatments. So would adding another Sub 15 be better for this system and save the sigs for 2 channel. I asked about the s4 because I wouldn't have a problem buying used v2's.

That's a pretty decent sized room, I would be tempted to go with the S4's and maybe even the 100's if you stick to the Studio line. Room treatments will go a long way to more refined (smoother) sound and if your room is fairly barren you may want to prioritize that over speakers. The Sub 15 should be ample if it's properly located.

The Be tweeters in the Sig v.2's and v.3's are world class and I'd be putting Sigs in any two channel room I had. They would likely be my first choice even if I had a bigger budget.

weird 23

01-01-10, 11:20 PM

Sweet thanks for the info!! And why would you go for the 3400 instead? just curious and do both of you like your purchase? reason i ask is I am still considering other speakers like Klipsch or Polk.......thanks again

My friend is very happy with his speakers and I have since upgraded to Studio's. If your going for the 11's you might as well get the bigger sub, my 3200 didn't quite play as deep as I would like. Where in Canada are you located?

weird 23

01-01-10, 11:32 PM

That's a pretty decent sized room, I would be tempted to go with the S4's and maybe even the 100's if you stick to the Studio line. Room treatments will go a long way to more refined (smoother) sound and if your room is fairly barren you may want to prioritize that over speakers. The Sub 15 should be ample if it's properly located.

The Be tweeters in the Sig v.2's and v.3's are world class and I'd be putting Sigs in any two channel room I had. They would likely be my first choice even if I had a bigger budget.

My plan is to get two corner traps and treat first reflections to start, then take it from there. I keep reading that 100's need an amp to perform at their best, that's why I thought maybe s2/s4 and keep using my reciever. Do you think the 60's would have enough output? I'm kinda of liking the idea of the s4/c3 combo. For 2 channel I would like a good intergrated amp, right now I have the Marantz 8003 with Studio 10's. I've heard the Rotel 1520 and it sounded great, but it was hooked up to B&W's. Nad and Athem are also choices I had considered. Which one would you use and why?

Stylz25

01-02-10, 12:23 AM

My friend is very happy with his speakers and I have since upgraded to Studio's. If your going for the 11's you might as well get the bigger sub, my 3200 didn't quite play as deep as I would like. Where in Canada are you located?

Oh ok that sounds good! I will probly get the 3400 then! Do the Paradigms do a good job for HT cause alot of guys are telling me to get the Klipsch RF-82 system!! And I live in Edmonton,Alberta. :) thx

weird 23

01-02-10, 12:30 AM

Oh ok that sounds good! I will probly get the 3400 then! Do the Paradigms do a good job for HT cause alot of guys are telling me to get the Klipsch RF-82 system!! And I live in Edmonton,Alberta. :) thx

I'm in Ottawa. I would go with the Paradigm's over the Klipsch anyday. The Klipsch are not the sound for me but I have another friend who swears by them. You need to listen to both and decide which one you like better. Yes the Paradigms do an excellent job for HT and better than Klipsch for music.

jaamar1

01-02-10, 06:26 AM

Some time ago I was asking/complaining about CC590v4 sound quality.
I had some advices from your side - so thank you for that.
Finally I sold out my CC590 and I want to buy CC690v4 or v5. I live in Poland. At this moment it is impossible to buy CC690v4, so I decided to buy v5 version. On monday I will order it in local store. Waiting time - 2,3 weeks till I will get them from Canada (there is no such a speaker on stock in Poland).

Does anybody know where can I buy this speaker (v4 or v5 rosenut), to have it in better price and faster? In my local store I will need to pay 1700USD

Which one is better v4 or v5 version and why?

osofast240sx

01-02-10, 09:39 AM

JohnGZ28

01-02-10, 10:48 AM

BRAC

01-02-10, 11:26 AM

I just got the studio 20 v5 and cc 590 v5 this year but like everyone else on this site I'm thinking of the next upgrade. It's been narrowed down to the studio 60 v5 with the cc 690 or the s2/s4 with c3. What are your thoughts on the s2/c3 combo? What are you driving them with? I'm using a pioneer elite sc 07 and don't really want to buy an amp yet unless absolutly necessary. Would adding another sub 15 and sticking with the studio's be better? Looking for any thoughts on the s2/s4 with c3 combo, v2 or v3.

Sounds like you have a bad case of upgradeitis.:D I've had the same for over a year now, haha. Personally, the route I would take starts with room treatments first, dual Sub 15's second, and then finally upgrade to the Sig's third. IMHO, you won't truly benefit from upgrading to the Sig's unless you deal with that room first. Who knows, you may even rule out the need for Sig's after dealing with the room and adding a second sub. I would skip the Studio 60/cc 690 option though...

Your SC-07 should work fine either way. I am running an Anthem A5 with my Sig's after upgrading from the internal amps in my Denon 3808. The 3808 holds its own until you reach near reference volumes, then the A5 seperates itself.

I've become a firm believer in "headroom" lately, especially if like me, you often push your system to its limits. My second Sub 12 and A5 elevated my system up to that next tier, so to speak.

John WL

01-02-10, 12:04 PM

The Audyssey upgrade would probably be "packaged" in a general upgrade. You could ask Denon support, they should know.
The improvement was in the bass resolution so it won't affect what you're after too much (timber matching).

Do read that guide I linked, it's an excellent "how to".

I should correct myself on the textbook placement for your dipoles, ideally they should be on the side walls so you're sitting in line with the null (middle) of the dipole. There's nothing wrong with where they are, it's just not optimum for a 5.1 set up. I think I had 7.1 on the brain earlier..

Rnrgagne, I spent most of the day yesterday playing around with Audyssey. I read the link that you provided and it was an excellent reference. I did try Audyssey a long time ago, but it gave less than desirable results. After I read that link, I realized that I have been calibrating my system wrong as to where I was placing my microphone and my subwoofer was set WAY too high. I assume that is was threw off the Audyssey results in the past.

I calibrated my rear surrounds in bipole mode, dipole (facing away from the listening position), and dipole (facing toward the listening position). I ended up liking the dipole configuration facing toward the listening position the most. It is not perfect, but it is much better than before.

I also determined that I may need room treatments. I have carpet with a very think pad underneath, and I have some thick leather furniture in the room. I was afraid that I may "overtreat" the room with acoustical panels and make it sound dead. I think that I may try treating the room and seeing if it helps out.

Thanks again for the information and advice. Now I need to figure out what will fit in my space. I have been dabbling with the idea of adding a second subwoofer to even out the bass. Haha...too many options! ;)

rnrgagne

01-02-10, 12:28 PM

My plan is to get two corner traps and treat first reflections to start, then take it from there. I keep reading that 100's need an amp to perform at their best, that's why I thought maybe s2/s4 and keep using my reciever. Do you think the 60's would have enough output? I'm kinda of liking the idea of the s4/c3 combo. For 2 channel I would like a good intergrated amp, right now I have the Marantz 8003 with Studio 10's. I've heard the Rotel 1520 and it sounded great, but it was hooked up to B&W's. Nad and Athem are also choices I had considered. Which one would you use and why?

One of the trap companies (linked on these forums somewhere) now makes acoustic panels with art on them so they look like paintings on the wall, I think they can do whatever prints you like. Pretty cool stuff.

I think there's a bit of internet lemming action with regard to 100's and their power requirements, or the whole external amp thing in general. They are efficient enough that your 07 should be able to power them easily.
I haven't heard the 60's so it's it's just speculation on my part that the 100's would give you better mid-bass and bass performance in that size of room given they have more, and larger, drivers. I just think if your going with floorstanders..
The 60's should be fine though.

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask about a 2ch rig. I'm a big fan of room correction (good room correction) and would likely have a 2.1 or 2.2 set-up for that application. That sort of flies in the face of the purists, but it's where I've come to after thirty five years in this hobby. If I had lots of coin I'd probably go with a TaCT 2.2 unit and amp, and on a low budget a Denon 3808ci & an Audyssey Pro calibration. I would pretty much use any decent digital transport with the TaCT & with the Denon a Denon Link equipped player will give jitter free CD/SACD performance.
I just feel that, speakers aside, properly implemented room correction plays a more significant role in the final outcome than any component change/difference will make.

BRAC

01-02-10, 12:35 PM

John WL,

I wouldn't worry about deadening your room too much. I had the same concerns a little over a year ago and some very wise individuals here at AVS put my mind at ease. I now have a GIK treated room, with carpet, suede drapes all around, even fabric covering the ceiling and my room is far from sounding dead. No worries...;)

rnrgagne

01-02-10, 12:37 PM

Your SC-07 should work fine either way. I am running an Anthem A5 with my Sig's after upgrading from the internal amps in my Denon 3808. The 3808 holds its own until you reach near reference volumes, then the A5 seperates itself..

And therein lies the truth. This is where the size of room and listening distance comes into play - what does it take to get to reference levels in your system/room - and that doesn't always equate to more power..
And that's if you even listen at that level in the first place, I certainly do, but that's not everyone's cuppa.

rnrgagne

01-02-10, 12:45 PM

Thanks again for the information and advice. Now I need to figure out what will fit in my space. I have been dabbling with the idea of adding a second subwoofer to even out the bass. Haha...too many options! ;)

You're welcome. Be careful this hobby is addicting. ;)

The Audio theory, Setup and Chat forums is a great place to get some ideas re room treatments and the likes. There's a lot you can do without having to spend big bucks.

The1stCav

01-02-10, 01:00 PM

Hey folks, looking for some input on a TV stand that can be used with a CC390. Big centre channel that takes up a lot of real estate, I can't seem to find any table-top type stands that have room for my center channel.

What are people using?

Thanks.
I will preach the Standout Designs Horizon N702 Plus because I went from a Glass/Metal stand that was adequate, but OMG that Horizon is awesome IMHO.

The1stCav

01-02-10, 01:01 PM

be careful this hobby is addicting. ;)

+1 with "Expensive" added to that comment

BRAC

01-02-10, 01:28 PM

Be careful this hobby is addicting. ;)

Isn't that the truth...:D And, this little fact doesen't sit well with my wife for some reason.:eek: Not sure why???;):p

pbc

01-02-10, 01:45 PM

Isn't that the truth...:D And, this little fact doesen't sit well with my wife for some reason.:eek: Not sure why???;):p

I was thinking that this morning as I contemplated a couple DIY subs, which one would think would be cheaper, but not when in that contemplation I started wondering about the US$1500 per drive LMS-5400 18" driver (just the driver, not the amp or box!).

weird 23

01-02-10, 08:23 PM

Sounds like you have a bad case of upgradeitis.:D I've had the same for over a year now, haha. Personally, the route I would take starts with room treatments first, dual Sub 15's second, and then finally upgrade to the Sig's third. IMHO, you won't truly benefit from upgrading to the Sig's unless you deal with that room first. Who knows, you may even rule out the need for Sig's after dealing with the room and adding a second sub. I would skip the Studio 60/cc 690 option though...

Your SC-07 should work fine either way. I am running an Anthem A5 with my Sig's after upgrading from the internal amps in my Denon 3808. The 3808 holds its own until you reach near reference volumes, then the A5 seperates itself.

I've become a firm believer in "headroom" lately, especially if like me, you often push your system to its limits. My second Sub 12 and A5 elevated my system up to that next tier, so to speak.
Why would you skip the 690/60 combo? What were you using before your sigs? I think your right, I'll start with room and take it from there. One more question, I still have some monitors in my system ADP 390 and Atoms for surrounds. Is the upgrade to studio surrounds worth it? Yes, I like to listen at reference levels but with two kids under four it doesn't happen that often. When they get older I will look into getting an amp.

519audiofan

01-02-10, 09:17 PM

Warpdrv

01-02-10, 09:53 PM

I was thinking that this morning as I contemplated a couple DIY subs, which one would think would be cheaper, but not when in that contemplation I started wondering about the US$1500 per drive LMS-5400 18" driver (just the driver, not the amp or box!).

It all depends on how you go about it...

$1500 for an uncomparable driver, I got used amps for less then $1K 4000w bridged each, and my boxes only cost me $100 each to make....
I refuse to put gynormous boxes in my house, so mine are sealed 24" cubes which are still somewhat large, but my room is freakin huge.

My first 2 LMS's cost me less then $1K each, 1 used, 1 new from a friend. I'll be stretching it on the 3rd, but these are capable of extreme output and power handling, and measured to be arguably the best drivers on the planet.

If you want a paradigm sub that can touch one of the LMS's in regards to output and clarity, you would have to jump up to Sub 1.... + they are claiming 38mm excursion on 8" drivers and 76mm on the 10" drivers, which I call bull$hit on.... but I'll still give them the benefits of cone area and with even half the excursion they claim will still have some excellent output as well as a balanced design - they would make for sure great subs...

As I have said you don't have to go with LMS's, you could build Dual Opposed 15" drivers like this guy did for pretty darn cheap...
http://www.avforums.com/forums/diy-subwoofer-build/1093429-acoustic-elegance-av15-x-dual-driver-opposed.html

I think they weigh in at $1K each, and will have amazing performance...

weird 23

01-02-10, 10:19 PM

How is your Sub 15?

Great! I love it! It blends very well with the rest of my system, the PBK does a great job. It was much easier to intergrate into the ststem than the DSP 3200's I had. Lots of output and goes really deep, but I can't help but wonder what having two of them would sound like.

weird 23

01-02-10, 10:23 PM

BRAC

01-02-10, 10:39 PM

Why would you skip the 690/60 combo? What were you using before your sigs? I think your right, I'll start with room and take it from there. One more question, I still have some monitors in my system ADP 390 and Atoms for surrounds. Is the upgrade to studio surrounds worth it? Yes, I like to listen at reference levels but with two kids under four it doesn't happen that often. When they get older I will look into getting an amp.

I only say skip the 690/60 combo because, imho, it wouldn't represent that much of an upgrade. Afterall, you would be sticking with the same series of speaker. An upgrade in surrounds would be worthwhile, eventually, but certainly wouldn't be at the top of my list. I still say room treatments first, followed by a second Sub 15, then see where you want to go from there.

I upgraded from KEF IQ's to the Sig's.

weird 23

01-02-10, 11:00 PM

I only say skip the 690/60 combo because, imho, it wouldn't represent that much of an upgrade. Afterall, you would be sticking with the same series of speaker. An upgrade in surrounds would be worthwhile, eventually, but certainly wouldn't be at the top of my list. I still say room treatments first, followed by a second Sub 15, then see where you want to go from there.

I upgraded from KEF IQ's to the Sig's.

Thanks for the advice.

cassnlogan

01-03-10, 12:03 AM

Right now I have my Studio 40's on 17" patio tables so they are off the floor. They do sound much better. I found some counter stools that I really like and are more of a furniture look than stands. they will raise the height another 6-7 inches, which will put the tweeters at about 41-42". Optimum height or not? My ear level at the listening area is about 38" I think, so they would be slightly above ear level.

rnrgagne

01-03-10, 01:34 AM

gatomalo

01-03-10, 02:06 AM

JohnGZ28

01-03-10, 09:50 AM

cassnlogan

01-03-10, 10:10 AM

bruman

01-03-10, 11:12 AM

If anyone has a pair of old V.3 ADP-370's for sale, PM me.

I think V.4's would work too.

pbc

01-03-10, 12:58 PM

How are your s2's and c3 so far?

Enjoying them more and more. No complaints coming from MUCH larger, and IMO of pretty high quality/capable, floor standing units.

pbc

01-03-10, 01:25 PM

It all depends on how you go about it...

$1500 for an uncomparable driver, I got used amps for less then $1K 4000w bridged each, and my boxes only cost me $100 each to make....
I refuse to put gynormous boxes in my house, so mine are sealed 24" cubes which are still somewhat large, but my room is freakin huge.

My first 2 LMS's cost me less then $1K each, 1 used, 1 new from a friend. I'll be stretching it on the 3rd, but these are capable of extreme output and power handling, and measured to be arguably the best drivers on the planet.

If you want a paradigm sub that can touch one of the LMS's in regards to output and clarity, you would have to jump up to Sub 1.... + they are claiming 38mm excursion on 8" drivers and 76mm on the 10" drivers, which I call bull$hit on.... but I'll still give them the benefits of cone area and with even half the excursion they claim will still have some excellent output as well as a balanced design - they would make for sure great subs...

As I have said you don't have to go with LMS's, you could build Dual Opposed 15" drivers like this guy did for pretty darn cheap...
http://www.avforums.com/forums/diy-subwoofer-build/1093429-acoustic-elegance-av15-x-dual-driver-opposed.html

I think they weigh in at $1K each, and will have amazing performance...

Yeah, but I need something that is in the 18 to 20" cubed ball park. Cost isn't that big of a concern, but I'd like to keep it at or under the $4k mark. +/- $500. Can probably go to 22" high, but need the width do be no more than 20" (ideally 18"), and depth no more than 20 to 22" max.

I believe the dual opposed unit was at least 24" in depth.

Will likely make a decision in the next 3 to 6 months as to what I do next. Nathan presented some interesting options with the new LMS-15R driver, LMS 5400 and Aura NS18 drivers in boxes that I think would fit. Problem then becomes how to drive the unit, i.e., plate amp (L/T 1300 which is likely too much for the Aura, not enough for the LMS5400, etc), or sell my Sunfire amp and just use the Onkyo 876 for my speakers and purchase say a powerful pro-amp that could drive both subs.

Decisions, decisions.

stephenmcgauley

01-03-10, 01:33 PM

stephenmcgauley

01-03-10, 01:38 PM

Does or has anyone had the studio 20 v3's? How do they sound compared to the v4 or v5. I didn't notice a discernable difference in the v4 and v5 and saw some v3's on audiogon pretty cheap and wanted some opinions. I am looking to upgrade from titan v3's.

rnrgagne

01-03-10, 01:45 PM

I apologize if I'm off the subject, I'm a newbie...lol but here goes...I just bought the paradigm studio 100's, cc690, adp 590, no sub yet, and the pioneer elite sc27. I'm a little confused, I can't get a thumping bass sound out of this system especially from the fronts, what gives? I even bi-amped the fronts since I'm going with a 5.1 setup and the receiver has extra channels! they are off the wall by 2ft, my room is 19ftx24ft. I set the speakers as large on the receiver. Running 12gauage on rears and 16/4, which I double twisted, on the fronts. so what am i doing wrong? Love latin jazz and 50% of the time I see movies!

Speaker cable has nothing to do with thumping bass. You could use coat hangers for speaker cables & and it wouldn't matter.

I'm going to assume you're talking about "bloated" or distorted bass and the source of that problem could be a variety of things.

1. Speaker placement; Even though you've got your mains a couple of feet out from the back wall, that might not be enough. Experiment with some 2 channel music you're familiar with, start with them about 2/3 the distance to your listening position apart and move them from there until you get the best blend of imaging and the bass you're after.
2. Room modes; Depending on the room it is very possible your sitting position is in a "peak" area where bass is effectively doubled, doing the above will help as could moving the seating position.
3. Acoustic treatments; Your room could require a lot more absorption in the lower frequencies. One of the best things you can do for a room with bass issues is bass-trapping, especially if you've got limited seating and speaker placement options.
(You can get some good info on the above in the Audio Setup Theory, & Chat forums here.)
4. Digital room correction; Once you've done your best with the mechanical aspects of setting up your system. run the Pioneer's MCACC room correction software. It won't be a panacea for bloated bass but it will help significantly.

And make sure you have any bass enhancement or loudness features of the Pioneer turned off.

benn600

01-03-10, 02:07 PM

We completed our home theater just over a year ago based on Paradigm Signature (version 2) and Anthem Statement equipment. Just yesterday, I discovered a problem with the center channel, the C5. The upper mid-range driver is outputting awful crackling at typical volume levels and above. Below -25dB or so the problem is not immediately obvious--maybe non-existent.

My initial thought was that the driver had blown. Of course searching for "Paradigm Signature blown" (no quotes of course) in Google reveals nothing but people being blown away, etc. I tried the same audio both from lossless through our HTPC and through the Denon Blu-Ray player to rule out source distortion. On stereo modes, I don't hear the distortion but on Cinema / mono modes it is definitely there. The problem appears in 5.1 movies just the same as in music--all sources.

Then I began trying to pinpoint a potentially damaging listening session but fell a seriously short. I personally was watching some TV at above my normal listening levels (not insane by any stretch... - 6 dB). Following this, we did have a movie party but we've had several earlier with much more strenuous usage. We are not prone to over-driving the system--especially when we are talking about this fairly powerful equipment.

Everything is driven by a D2 and A5 amplifier.

At the moment I would appreciate help on these topics:

1. Diagnosing the actual problem.
2. Have other users experienced blown Signature drivers?
3. How much do the drivers in the Signature equipment cost to replace (on average)? Tweeter most expensive (beryllium)? Woofer, mid-range, or in this case the upper midrange.
4. With a diagnosis, what might have caused it? Any chance the speaker had a problem from the factory?

Everyone involved is stunned that this problem developed based on immediately preceding usage being nothing outlandish and barely (if at all) above typical use! Before these questionable sessions everything sounded fine to the best of my recollection.

Thanks everyone!

kcirtap

01-03-10, 02:16 PM

i have a quick question. Anyone know if the cc-390 v6 would match up well with monitor 9 v5. I am debating upgrading my cc-290 v5 but of course no more cc-390 v5 avaiable, so would have to step it up to v6. thanks for the help :)

Warpdrv

01-03-10, 02:28 PM

At the moment I would appreciate help on these topics:

1. Diagnosing the actual problem.
2. Have other users experienced blown Signature drivers?
3. How much do the drivers in the Signature equipment cost to replace (on average)? Tweeter most expensive (beryllium)? Woofer, mid-range, or in this case the upper midrange.
4. With a diagnosis, what might have caused it? Any chance the speaker had a problem from the factory?

Everyone involved is stunned that this problem developed based on immediately preceding usage being nothing outlandish and barely (if at all) above typical use! Before these questionable sessions everything sounded fine to the best of my recollection.

Thanks everyone!

Run some test tones from your Anthem Pre-Amp... where you can send the pink noise to the center channel and back and forth with one of your mains - this should help you determine which driver is bad... Its a man made object, nothing is perfect and drivers do fail from time to time. It has happened to me.

Call your dealer where you bought the speaker from and tell him to order you a new one, (he will want the model # on the back of the C5) they are under a 5 year warranty - it shouldn't be an issue. Its a very very simple swap out.... As I have stated before - Even a caveman can do it !!

When your new driver comes in remove said driver, pick up the new one and replace it, they will want the old driver. Or maybe you have a nice dealer and they will come replace it for you at no service charge...

The Mid Tweet unit comes out as a single unit and the whole thing will be replaced...

kenw232

01-03-10, 02:46 PM

Does anyone know if you can stand the Cinema CC or Cinema 110c center speaker on its end to stand it up? or does it fall over. the ends look slightly rounded.
This: http://www.gibbysaudiovideo.com/paradigm-cinema-center-channel-speaker-cinemacc-p-552.html

chester aldrid

01-03-10, 03:28 PM

Kenw232
Paradigm has a bracket that lets you stand them up I think. Best thing to do is contact Paradigm or look at the spec. sheet on the web.

chester

peter_vfr

01-03-10, 04:48 PM

Run some test tones from your Anthem Pre-Amp... where you can send the pink noise to the center channel and back and forth with one of your mains - this should help you determine which driver is bad... Its a man made object, nothing is perfect and drivers do fail from time to time. It has happened to me.

Call your dealer where you bought the speaker from and tell him to order you a new one, (he will want the model # on the back of the C5) they are under a 5 year warranty - it shouldn't be an issue. Its a very very simple swap out.... As I have stated before - Even a caveman can do it !!

When your new driver comes in remove said driver, pick up the new one and replace it, they will want the old driver. Or maybe you have a nice dealer and they will come replace it for you at no service charge...

The Mid Tweet unit comes out as a single unit and the whole thing will be replaced...
It may also be worthwhile to swap the speaker leads from one of your fronts with the C5 just to be sure it's the speaker and not some issue with the source feed on the centre channel.....

That being said it does sound like a problem with the speaker itself.

Warpdrv

01-03-10, 04:50 PM

It may also be worthwhile to swap the speaker leads from one of your fronts with the C5 just to be sure it's the speaker and not some issue with the source feed on the centre channel.....

That being said it does sound like a problem with the speaker itself.

Yes Yes peter is correct... Always check this first before replacing drivers, I guess things like this slip my mind as they are automatic tests I would always do...

benn600

01-03-10, 04:57 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I was planning to try a front speaker lead and will definitely try that. Monday, my audio dealer will be open and I'll call for their input.

benn600

01-03-10, 09:28 PM

I removed the front left speaker lead and attached it to the center channel. With the change I still hear the troublesome distortion. I plan to call our dealer tomorrow.

RoyalTennenbaum

01-04-10, 09:31 AM

New Paradigm owner here with a couple of setup questions...

My setup:
(3) Cinema 330's for Center, Left & Right
(2) ADP's for side surround
(2) CS-50R's for rear surround
(1) DSP-3200 Sub
Denon AVR 1910 Receiver

- When setting up my receiver, should I assign the front left, right and center channels as "small" (inadequate for low frequency playback)?

- What crossover frequency should be used for sending Bass to the sub? Default setting is 80Hz, range is 40-250Hz.

osofast240sx

01-04-10, 09:41 AM

benn600

01-04-10, 11:28 AM

Has anyone listened and compared version 2 & 3 of the Signature line? Our version 2 theater has been going strong for about a year but who doesn't want the latest versions of things? lol

osofast240sx

01-04-10, 11:37 AM

Has anyone listened and compared version 2 & 3 of the Signature line? Our version 2 theater has been going strong for about a year but who doesn't want the latest versions of things? lol

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1175527

HeffeMusic

01-04-10, 11:44 AM

Hello All,
I am using studio 20s v.5 as my fronts in my 5.1 setup. The speakers are currently Bi-amped to my Onkyo. I was thinking about setting up a 2nd audio set up just for 2 -channel listening with my old Adcom, 545, and 555 pre amp. Can someone recommend a switch box where I can use both audio systems through the same speakers, or is this a bad idea?

rnrgagne

01-04-10, 03:36 PM

New Paradigm owner here with a couple of setup questions...
- When setting up my receiver, should I assign the front left, right and center channels as "small" (inadequate for low frequency playback)?

- What crossover frequency should be used for sending Bass to the sub? Default setting is 80Hz, range is 40-250Hz.

Start by running the Audyssey then set them all to small and start with an 80hz x-over as suggested above. That's the THX standard but you can experiment with no ill effects to see what sounds best in your rig.

Set your subs' high pass filter (on the sub itself) to the highest it will go or disable the crossover if it has that feature. The receiver will automatically send the signals below your other speakers' crossovers to it.

If the setting you're talking about above is the "LFE" setting, you want to set that as high as you sub is capable of reproducing. If it's to limit the bass you send it from below the speakers' crossovers the same applies. Check your subs' specs for the frequency response, if it's something like 25hz to 150hz then 150hz would be the setting. (I don't think there's much LFE signals above 120hz but I don't know for sure..)

Pair4Dimes

01-05-10, 02:12 AM

JohnGZ28

01-05-10, 07:02 AM

Posted in the Millenia owners thread but was meant for this forum..

Was wondering if you guy had any favorite blu rays /DVDS that you use to show off your speakers to your friends......You know the disk you throw in to remind you why you bought them in the first place!

Just looking to expand my audiophile library and looking for great movies with mind blowing sounds. =)

What do you guys throw in from time to time that still blows your mind.

Cheers

p.s i got studio 60s v.5 cc490 v.5 ams 150r 30 and yamaha 2065

If I'm going to show off my speakers I usually put in one of my SACDs or DVD-A as opposed to a movie.

If you want to go with a movie the opening scene of Master and Commander is a real show stopper, especially when that first cannon goes off.

osofast240sx

01-05-10, 09:21 AM

Posted in the Millenia owners thread but was meant for this forum..

Was wondering if you guy had any favorite blu rays /DVDS that you use to show off your speakers to your friends......You know the disk you throw in to remind you why you bought them in the first place!

Just looking to expand my audiophile library and looking for great movies with mind blowing sounds. =)

What do you guys throw in from time to time that still blows your mind.

Cheers

p.s i got studio 60s v.5 cc490 v.5 ams 150r 30 and yamaha 2065stargate 25 anniversary, terminator salvation, transporter 3, transformers

rnrgagne

01-05-10, 02:12 PM

Was wondering if you guy had any favorite blu rays /DVDS that you use to show off your speakers to your friends......You know the disk you throw in to remind you why you bought them in the first place!

For Movies;
War of The Worlds.
Live Free Or Die Hard.
Saving Private Ryan.

Each of those have some scenes that will give your system an outstanding workout. The jet fighter & truck scene in Live Free is killer.

For Blu Ray Music Concerts;
Pat Metheny's "The Way Up Live"
Jeff Beck; "Live at Ronnie Scott's"
The Police; "Certifiable"

The DTS HD MA recording on Pat Metheney's Blu Ray is one of the best I've heard. I'm not a big jazz fan but listen to this one often because of that. The other two are also very good in their recording quality, and I prefer them from a music taste point of view. Beck is a "master class" guitarist and Copeland steals the show on Certifiable. His drums will also give your system a workout..

J Ritt

01-05-10, 02:33 PM

I am going to pick up my piano black Special Edition SE3's and SE Center in about an hour.:D I was initially planning to upgrade my front sound stage from the Monitor series to the Studio series (currently running Titan Monitors & CC-290). However, after looking at the specs, components, and pricing on the SE series, I decided to give them a try instead.

I'll post up some impressions, pics, etc. in the next couple of days.

519audiofan

01-05-10, 08:56 PM

Posted in the Millenia owners thread but was meant for this forum..

Was wondering if you guy had any favorite blu rays /DVDS that you use to show off your speakers to your friends......You know the disk you throw in to remind you why you bought them in the first place!

Just looking to expand my audiophile library and looking for great movies with mind blowing sounds. =)

What do you guys throw in from time to time that still blows your mind.

Cheers

p.s i got studio 60s v.5 cc490 v.5 ams 150r 30 and yamaha 2065

Go to www.linnrecords.com and download some of the Studio Master 24 bit flacs. There is some truly amazing classical and jazz music available.
I downloaded some on New Years Eve and even my wife commented on the quality of the sound.

JohnGZ28

01-05-10, 09:14 PM

For Blu Ray Music Concerts;
Pat Metheny's "The Way Up Live"
Jeff Beck; "Live at Ronnie Scott's"
The Police; "Certifiable"

The DTS HD MA recording on Pat Metheney's Blu Ray is one of the best I've heard. I'm not a big jazz fan but listen to this one often because of that. The other two are also very good in their recording quality, and I prefer them from a music taste point of view. Beck is a "master class" guitarist and Copeland steals the show on Certifiable. His drums will also give your system a workout..

May I add Chris Botti Live to that list? Billy Kilson on drums is amazing.

Pair4Dimes

01-06-10, 12:36 AM

Awesome! got some downloading and shopping to do!

Thanks guys

Fanaticalism

01-06-10, 03:04 AM

For Movies;
War of The Worlds.
Live Free Or Die Hard.
Saving Private Ryan.

Each of those have some scenes that will give your system an outstanding workout. The jet fighter & truck scene in Live Free is killer.

For Blu Ray Music Concerts;
Pat Metheny's "The Way Up Live"
Jeff Beck; "Live at Ronnie Scott's"
The Police; "Certifiable"

The DTS HD MA recording on Pat Metheney's Blu Ray is one of the best I've heard. I'm not a big jazz fan but listen to this one often because of that. The other two are also very good in their recording quality, and I prefer them from a music taste point of view. Beck is a "master class" guitarist and Copeland steals the show on Certifiable. His drums will also give your system a workout..

John Mayers' "Where the Light is" is also a fantastic demo piece for concert material on BD. If you haven't heard this one, I recommend you give it a rent.

I owned all three of your recommendations before I sold off all my BD's, and agree with your thoughts. I must say though, I think the Mayer takes the cake in terms of SQ. PQ is pretty good to boot.

FirstShirt33

01-06-10, 03:13 AM

Hello to everyone. I've owned some Paradigm speakers for well on twenty years. Although they have been great to me, I think it's time to move on. I'm looking at the Studio and Signature series and I've seen the suggested retail for US/Canada, but I'm wondering about overseas pricing. I am stationed in Korea, and although I've found a dealer, it appears he has a BIG markup.

Part of my problem is that in Korea you are expected to negotiate. I'd really like to know a good starting price before I begin this process so I don't walk away wondering if I should have negotiated more. When I know the list price, I feel pretty good about my bargaining skills (wife is Korea, she taught me well). Should I expect a similar retail price as in the U.S.? Your thoughts, please.

Current system: Pioneer Kuro Pro151-fd, Denon AVR 5308-CI, Panasonic BD-55 Blu-ray, Paradigm 11MK se-III, Paradigm ADP surrounds, Paradigm CC and Paradigm PS-1000 sub.

padgettl

01-06-10, 09:49 AM

SimpleTheater

01-06-10, 10:02 AM

Hi, I've owned my Paradigm Monitor's for about 7 years. They have worked great. I have the Monitor 7's as front's, the lowest model center channel, I think it is the CC-170and the dipoles for the rears. I ordered the ED A2-300 sub.

I have just set up a home theater in my house (Epson 8100 Projector adn 120" screen) and am wondering if I would hear a big difference if I upgraded the center channel??? Should I just stick w/ paradigm and go with the monitor 290 or 390 or is there something else that would work well w/ my current setup? I watch 100% tv and movies, no music at all.
You want to timbre match, but the new monitor line is different from what you already own. To keep costs low, I'd recommend finding a used Monitor center of the same version of your L/R Monitors.

And yes, a bigger center will make a huge difference. Many people estimate 50-65% of all sound from movies comes from the center channel.

J Ritt

01-06-10, 10:11 AM

Okay,
So I got my Special Edition's last night. I went with the SE3's for my fronts and the SE3 as my center.

EDIT: THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION ON WHICH DRIVERS WERE ACTUALLY IN THE SE PRODUCT LINE, DUE TO CONFLICTING DATA IN THE SPEC SHEETS, MARKETING MATERIALS, PRESS RELEASES, AND OWNER REPORTS. THE SE SERIES CONTAIN THE SAME TWEETERS, MID DRIVERS, AND BASS DRIVERS AS THE STUDIO SERIES. PLEASE SEE MY MORE RECENT POSTS FOR CLOSEUP PICS.

The Choice
I was a little worried about these speakers based on Paradigm's marketing. This phrase in particular is a put-off to me: Speakers are not just a guy thing, women love 'em too. Especially a design like this ...
That makes me instantly think, "fluff, lifestyle, all show-no go, etc." At the core, I want performance...something that sounds good. Good looks are a plus, but not a deal-breaker for me. Fortunately, these speakers both look and sound really, really good.:D

I was running Paradigm Titan Monitor V.5 and CC-290 V.5. After a little time with them, I wasn't thrilled. I had been running Boston Acoustics VR950 towers and a matching VR12 center channel for the previous 10 years. Boston gets beat to death on this forum, but they were actually very nice speakers for the money. Before the holidays I put those Bostons in my main living area, and was really surprised how good they sounded when I dusted them off and played music through them for a party. I realized that I actually liked them quite a bit better than the Titan Monitors in my theater. Obviously, the differing rooms, etc. certainly played a large part in that opinion. I think the biggest shortfall with the Titans though, was the sound stage. They just weren't opening up enough for me on movies or music. I was planning to just live with the Titans, but one of them was having some problems. I tried getting it repaired, but the repair was done improperly, and the speaker came back to me in worse condition than when I sent them to be repaired! I ordered another set from a different seller, and they arrived damaged. I opened them up at home and they were in pieces. UPS had thrashed them during shipment...cones were broken, crossover was rattling around in the enclosure, etc.

Obviously this was a sign from the heavens that I needed to upgrade, so I got a refund and decided to try plan B.:p I was strongly considering the Studio line, but didn't want to part with that much money. I thought about going used, but was worried about not having a warranty on something so expensive...particularly after my terrible experience trying to get my faulty Titan repaired. For a number of reasons, I also decided that I wanted to go back to a tower for my fronts.

The SE series seemed to fit the bill. I knew they had many components of the much-loved Studio line, so I figured 'what the heck' and pulled the trigger for my front sound stage.

J Ritt

01-06-10, 10:41 AM

Packaging
IMO, the packaging on these things is abysmal. Paradigm uses styrofoam tops and bottoms to hold the speaker in place. The grill is fairly well protected in cardboard, but the overall package stinks. They were covered in a nice, soft sheath, but one of the towers still showed up with some very light scratches on one side. One or both pieces of styrofoam were cracked in both tower boxes. Overall, this packaging does a poor job of isolating the speaker from making contact with the sides of the box.
The packaging on my old Boston towers was far superior. They used hard, L-shaped tubes on all four corners that ran the full length of the speakers. The original Boston packages endured two cross-country moves, and one local move, and they look just as they did new. That's what I expect when paying this kind of money. If I ever sell these speakers, I'm going to have to come up with my own packaging to send them securely. The styrofoam thing just doesn't work on a speaker this large, period.

Looks/Fit and Finish
While appearance is a factor, it wasn't a major consideration for me, other than I wanted something in black. Gloss, flat, etc. wasn't really a major concern. That said, I have to say these are very attractive speakers. All of the edges are rounded and seamless. You can't really see where one side ends and another begins. The glossy surface is high reflective as you'll see in the pics, and the fit and finish looks fantastic overall. For the most part, everything appears to fit together nicely without gaps, tight, etc. The only thing i didn't like is how the center channel's grill fits. The grills are all held on with magnets, but the center channel one doesn't seem to fit very well. I had to reposition it a number of times to try and get it to sit completely flush. I wasn't terribly pleased about that.
They definitely look the business with the grills off, but Paradigm suggests running them with the grills on (related to sound diffraction), and the grills will likely add a layer of protection as well. I took pics both ways.
To reiterate, I'm extremely pleased with how they look. My wife really liked them as well...so if WAF is a major issue for you, I think these would have a great plus in that category. They are very sleek, look upscale, and have a small footprint. See for yourself...

Full Photo Gallery
http://img94.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=paradigmsespeakers026.jpg

I have to take care of some other things, but I'll get back for the important part soon! :)

ju|ian

01-06-10, 11:10 AM

chester aldrid

01-06-10, 11:16 AM

J Ritt
I am looking for a new ctr speaker would you say that the SE ctr is almost as good as the cc590?

chester

rnrgagne

01-06-10, 11:31 AM

May I add Chris Botti Live to that list? Billy Kilson on drums is amazing.

True that! I have a couple of Botti concerts. The recording quality isn't as good as the ones I mentioned to my ears, but they are entertaining concerts with a splash of interesting guests.

AbMagFab

01-06-10, 11:36 AM

rnrgagne

01-06-10, 11:38 AM

John Mayers' "Where the Light is" is also a fantastic demo piece for concert material on BD. If you haven't heard this one, I recommend you give it a rent.

I owned all three of your recommendations before I sold off all my BD's, and agree with your thoughts. I must say though, I think the Mayer takes the cake in terms of SQ. PQ is pretty good to boot.

Arrgh, I bought that concert on DVD, not Blu Ray and I'm kicking myself for it. I'd have to say it's one of my favorites too, even on DVD the quality is excellent. I was sticking to the BD's I actually had.

audiodaze74

01-06-10, 11:59 AM

Did an in home head to head with my Studio 10 V5's vs. the B&W 685 this past weekend...all i can say is I am glad I bought Paradigm last month!!!!! On almost every level with the exception of shear loudness and a slight edge in bass the B&Ws when down....and decisively I might add. Talk about overrated, i was disappointed with the build quality especially. I thought B&W were the ones to beat around here...maybe they put most of their effort and technology into their BIG floorstanding speakers. oh well just my 2 cents

rnrgagne

01-06-10, 11:59 AM

hey all, i'm getting s8 v3's soon.. currently using a pioneer sc-09tx receiver and will be using bel canto monoblocks to power them @ 500w/chan. just wondering if anyone could recommend some speaker cables as well as RCA interconnects for the monoblocks. would like to pay less than 3k ish. thanks!

My friend, this is an area where you can save yourself a lot of coin.
Despite the rhetoric of speaker cable and inter-connect companies spew, simple and common science proves beyond a reasonable doubt they make virtually no difference with certain caveats that even the cheapest of the cheap can easily meet.

I run the same mono-blocks (ICEpower 1000asp modules) from PS Audio and they play very nice with the S8's, you'll love the match.

I run 30' Home Depot in-wall twisted 4 x 12g (I think that's the right gage) and use just three of the leads with two on the + and one on the -. This is to ensure noise rejection but, even when I ran four leads it wasn't an issue.

For interconnects, when I ran RCA's I used Blue Jeans cables because they offer excellent terminators and build quality combined with great service at a reasonable price. But you don't have to spend even that much to get cable sufficient to do the job without any sonic ill effect. I'm using their XLR's now for the same reason and I have some cheap monoprice ones too and there's no difference at all - nor should there be.

The simple truth about properly built speaker cables and interconnects is if they change the sound at all they're either defective or acting as "filters".
If you want to use passive filters I guess that might be worth something but I'd rather let the front end components handle that.

Warpdrv

01-06-10, 12:15 PM

Less than 3K for cables? Seriously?

Buy them from monoprice.com. Copper is copper, no matter what anyone tells you.

+1 on all that.... Monoprice for the win...
Thats all I use in my system

My friend, this is an area where you can save yourself a lot of coin.

I run the same mono-blocks (ICEpower 1000asp modules) from PS Audio and they play very nice with the S8's, you'll love the match.

Couldn't agree more....
Wyred4Sound for my S8's, very nice together....

J Ritt

01-06-10, 01:37 PM

I am looking for a new ctr speaker would you say that the SE ctr is almost as good as the cc590?

Chester, I've never heard the CC-590. Sorry, I can't comment! I will say that the sound quality from the SECenter is decidedly superior to the CC290 in my opinion. I played some passages from various blu-ray's back to back last night, and the dialogue is substantially cleaner/clearer to my ears.

padgettl

01-06-10, 01:37 PM

You want to timbre match, but the new monitor line is different from what you already own. To keep costs low, I'd recommend finding a used Monitor center of the same version of your L/R Monitors.

And yes, a bigger center will make a huge difference. Many people estimate 50-65% of all sound from movies comes from the center channel.

Thanks for the clarification! Any ideas on where to find used ones other than ebay or craigslist?

audiodaze74

01-06-10, 01:45 PM

Thanks for the clarification! Any ideas on where to find used ones other than ebay or craigslist?

www.audiogon.com

www.videogon.com

Fanaticalism

01-06-10, 01:55 PM

Warpdrv

01-06-10, 02:18 PM

They put all their effort into their 800 line. The rest is just filler IMO.

I also agree that the build quality is pretty subpar (for what they ask for them anyway), minus their 800 line of course.

Hey, stop following me, or am I following you....
Round and Round we go... :D

Couldn't agree more, and even more to the point - IMO only the first 3 or 4 in the 800 series really do it right. And well outta what I'm willing to spend....

800D, 801D, 802D, 803D?

440forpower

01-06-10, 02:26 PM

J Ritt you tease.

Kai Winters

01-06-10, 03:23 PM

Hi, I've owned my Paradigm Monitor's for about 7 years. They have worked great. I have the Monitor 7's as front's, the lowest model center channel, I think it is the CC-170and the dipoles for the rears. I ordered the ED A2-300 sub.

I have just set up a home theater in my house (Epson 8100 Projector adn 120" screen) and am wondering if I would hear a big difference if I upgraded the center channel??? Should I just stick w/ paradigm and go with the monitor 290 or 390 or is there something else that would work well w/ my current setup? I watch 100% tv and movies, no music at all.

Thanks for any help!

I upgraded from the 170 to a 290 and am very happy with the upgrade. It made a big difference when watching tv or a dvd...dialogue is much improved...wider sound stage.
If given a "do over" I'd do it again in a heartbeat.