jack-it to the sound quality :D

I'm about to upgrade my front three and need to get some feedback before I make my final choices. I've got a 16x13x8 room and my ED A2-300 has the low end covered so I'm partial to sticking with bookshelves over towers. My use is approximately 50% theater, 45% gaming and 5% music. I've widdled my short list down to;

3x SE1's OR 2x Titans + CC190 and I'm still considering a trio of ED W6's

Was at my local dealer today and preferred the Titans over the Minis (really liked the Titan's midbass output!) and heard the CC190 in another room paired with some Atoms. The 190 definitely put the Atoms to shame but seems to be a good match with the Titans. The CC-290 is likely ruled out because 32lbs is probably more weight than I want to bear upon the top of my XBR2 rear pro. display. They didn't have any of the SE series unfortunately. My concerns are

1) SE1's Mid-bass - My current low-end Onkyo front 3 have dual mid-bass drivers and I don't want to lose anything in that department, but I'm hoping that with each single SE1 retailing for more than my entire current 5.0 went for I don't need to worry about that? Since I didn't get to demo the SE's, I'm not sure.

2) I'll keep my front three the same if I can, but that's not too important to me because I probably won't be able to tell if the horizontal SE Center is having wave cancellation issues. If I decide on SE's, should I shoot for 2x SE1's and the SE Center, or stick with 3 SE1's?

3) I'd like to stay under $1k, not because I can't afford more, but because I'm pretty sure that once I hit the $1k mark I won't be able to hear where that extra cash is going. The SE's are going to hit me for $950, would 3 Studio 10's for $1150 really be that much better?

Thanks.

I finally got an opportunity to audition the SE1 and SE3 today. Wow, these are impressive speakers.

The SE3, in particular, has a soundstage that nearly matched some PSB towers that were in the same room and that retailed for nearly $5k. Just amazing.

The SE1 for it's size was also quite impressive, especially given it's small price.

Now the hard part comes....

Where the SE1 differs is obviously in the lower bass and a narrower soundstage. My question is this: how much of this can be compensated by the addition of a good sub? I was not able to listen to either speaker model with a sub.

Where can I find more info on what I should expect to pay for these speakers? I was quoted about $2700 for 2x SE3, 1 SE center, and 2x SE1. Is that reasonable?

Is there a better route to take with SE1s all around?

Thanks!

That's about $200 more than I would pay in TX. Everything is jacked up in Cali though. Here's a review of the 5.1 with all SE1's http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/paradigm_special_edition_se_1_speaker_system/

just got my monitor 9s and cc 290 home,hooked them up to my new denon 3310 and realized I need a new stand to fit all this. searched everywhere and finally came across this American beauty...check it out what do y'all think.http://www.wood-tech.com/catalog/15/american_hardwood_tv_stands I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the cmv-50

My local dealer just told me that if I order 3 SE1's that I'll be charged an extra 15% on the odd one for ordering it separately. Has anyone ever heard of this surcharge or are they just trying to weasel more money out of me?

Yesterday I auditioned a pair of Studio 20's and I am sold! I listened to them back to back with the B&W 685's and it was no comparison! I will be picking up a pair of the studios to use in my HT setup (60% music and 40% movies) I also need a center channel...

My problem is that the studio series center channels are all to big to fit in my media console! However the SE center is the perfect size to fit my cabinet.

Will the SE center be a good match to the studios??

thanks

My local dealer just told me that if I order 3 SE1's that I'll be charged an extra 15% on the odd one for ordering it separately. Has anyone ever heard of this surcharge or are they just trying to weasel more money out of me?

The dealer should not charge you 15% extra. Thats ridiculous!

Yesterday I auditioned a pair of Studio 20's and I am sold! I listened to them back to back with the B&W 685's and it was no comparison! I will be picking up a pair of the studios to use in my HT setup (60% music and 40% movies) I also need a center channel...

My problem is that the studio series center channels are all to big to fit in my media console! However the SE center is the perfect size to fit my cabinet.

Will the SE center be a good match to the studios??

thanks


SE center sound be no problem for the 20s ... most of the SE components are Studio stuff anyways

My local dealer just told me that if I order 3 SE1's that I'll be charged an extra 15% on the odd one for ordering it separately. Has anyone ever heard of this surcharge or are they just trying to weasel more money out of me?

Lol probably has to order them in and wants you to pay for some of that shipping lol

My local dealer just told me that if I order 3 SE1's that I'll be charged an extra 15% on the odd one for ordering it separately. Has anyone ever heard of this surcharge or are they just trying to weasel more money out of me?

When I asked the same question on Friday, I was told that the speaker are only sold individually....go figure.

Lol probably has to order them in and wants you to pay for some of that shipping lol

Coming from a former dealer, that guy is HOOSING you big time. Only the Atoms & minimontors come 2 in a box Everything is single box.

As for extra shipping that is also bogus. The dealer gets the product from Paradigm at 60-70% below MSRP. that is the margin the dealer has to pay for shipping , his store overhead and making a little profit. Go to 6th Ave Electronics, the sell & discount Paradigm as an authorized dealer.

Coming from a former dealer, that guy is HOOSING you big time. Only the Atoms & minimontors come 2 in a box Everything is single box.

As for extra shipping that is also bogus. The dealer gets the product from Paradigm at 60-70% below MSRP. that is the margin the dealer has to pay for shipping , his store overhead and making a little profit. Go to 6th Ave Electronics, the sell & discount Paradigm as an authorized dealer.

dealers pay that much less than retail?
So i should be able to negotiate a deal for at least 20-30% off retail? Or can I do better?

Coming from a former dealer, that guy is HOOSING you big time. Only the Atoms & minimontors come 2 in a box Everything is single box.

As for extra shipping that is also bogus. The dealer gets the product from Paradigm at 60-70% below MSRP. that is the margin the dealer has to pay for shipping , his store overhead and making a little profit. Go to 6th Ave Electronics, the sell & discount Paradigm as an authorized dealer.

I knew they were full of it, just needed it confirmed. This is really annoying me considering I've already bought 2 multi-thousand dollar tvs from this place in the past. I really hate the idea of having to go in there and fight just to get MSRP. I should be trying to haggle for 5-10% off MSRP especially since they know I am also in the market for a bedroom TV and will likely be buying it at the same time. They've lost that sale though. I'm ordering one off Amazon for cheaper and no tax.

I have a 18x16 theater room and I was curious as to which speakers I should get. The monitor 9's or Studio 20's for the main and which center speaker to match with them??

dealers pay that much less than retail?
So i should be able to negotiate a deal for at least 20-30% off retail? Or can I do better?

yes that by and large is accurate.

understand, the more product the dealer buys from any manufacturer, the greater the $ incentives, such as lower wholesale prices on the product, extended payment periods with lower interest on outstanding invoices. Dealer incentives, such as gifts and trips.

All of these amount to a nice profit for a volumne dealer.

If the dealer is selling older stock (v5 for example), its in their interest to move product, because they have already received any $ incentive when the original order was placed with the factory. You will never get 30% unless your brother owns the shop! Be realistic....

10-15% is more than acceptable..... 20%+ if your buying display models

Scratch & dent models 30%+.

Hope that helps you.

Have you seen that TV commercial with Bill Shatner for Priceline, where he calls the shopper a wimp for not ASKING for a lower price?

In 28 years of selling Audio, that condition is more than 70% of the customers. Most of them have "NO BALLS" when making a buying decision. Ergo, they never feel they got a "reasonable" deal and feel "taken".

Ask and yee shall receive....... don't be a wimp with the dealer, but don't be rude either. You figure out what your willing to pay including tax and tell the dealer that's what you'll pay....

Many dealers can bury the tax in a number of ways.....which I won't go into.

Let us know the outcome.:D

I knew they were full of it, just needed it confirmed. This is really annoying me considering I've already bought 2 multi-thousand dollar tvs from this place in the past. I really hate the idea of having to go in there and fight just to get MSRP. I should be trying to haggle for 5-10% off MSRP especially since they know I am also in the market for a bedroom TV and will likely be buying it at the same time. They've lost that sale though. I'm ordering one off Amazon for cheaper and no tax.


I'm sorry I failed to see post earlier!

Therein lies the tale......

They have you by the shorts already!

Putting aside for a moment I am a retired dealer, what incentive do they have to provide you 1 ) better service, 2) inducements to buy from them, 3) offer freebies to expedite the sale> NONE

For NONE of this YOU HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF PAYING THEM!

Now I ask you, how lame is that arrangement?

It's time to change your approach, and be straight up and candid to a heavy handed approach.

1) Kill all conversation with the salesfolk / manager.... You will now only deal with the owner/principles. Ask to have a private meeting and spell out your unhappiness with your belief that you have been unfairly treated given the $ business already given to them.

Having a private meeting keeps other customers out of earshot and allows the owner to be flexible and not defensive.

Speak from the heart, and remind them that work of mouth goes a long way....What do you think killed Circuit city? Lousy pricing flexibility and bad word of mouth.

If the dealer gives you the old" I've been in business without having to discount" rap. You politely state, it's your opinion that "there is no indication of a land rush business happening in your store that I could see".

That will get their attention.... do you see where I'm Going?

yes that by and large is accurate.

understand, the more product the dealer buys from any manufacturer, the greater the $ incentives, such as lower wholesale prices on the product, extended payment periods with lower interest on outstanding invoices. Dealer incentives, such as gifts and trips.

All of these amount to a nice profit for a volumne dealer.

If the dealer is selling older stock (v5 for example), its in their interest to move product, because they have already received any $ incentive when the original order was placed with the factory. You will never get 30% unless your brother owns the shop! Be realistic....

10-15% is more than acceptable..... 20%+ if your buying display models

Scratch & dent models 30%+.

Hope that helps you.

Have you seen that TV commercial with Bill Shatner for Priceline, where he calls the shopper a wimp for not ASKING for a lower price?

In 28 years of selling Audio, that condition is more than 70% of the customers. Most of them have "NO BALLS" when making a buying decision. Ergo, they never feel they got a "reasonable" deal and feel "taken".

Ask and yee shall receive....... don't be a wimp with the dealer, but don't be rude either. You figure out what your willing to pay including tax and tell the dealer that's what you'll pay....

Many dealers can bury the tax in a number of ways.....which I won't go into.

Let us know the outcome.:D

Sounds good, thanks for the info!
I have had good luck dealing in the past, where I have walked in to the store with cash and said Ill take these speakers for this much and here is my wad of cash! Worked well in the past.

I will see how it goes this time!

Yesterday I auditioned a pair of Studio 20's and I am sold! I listened to them back to back with the B&W 685's and it was no comparison! I will be picking up a pair of the studios to use in my HT setup (60% music and 40% movies) I also need a center channel...

My problem is that the studio series center channels are all to big to fit in my media console! However the SE center is the perfect size to fit my cabinet.

Will the SE center be a good match to the studios??

thanks

My guess is that the SE3's would be an even better match with the SE Center, and you get the added benefit of a larger soundstage from the floorstanders which you will notice especially if you don't have a sub in the mix. But, it might cost you slightly more for the SE3's.

My local dealer just told me that if I order 3 SE1's that I'll be charged an extra 15% on the odd one for ordering it separately. Has anyone ever heard of this surcharge or are they just trying to weasel more money out of me?

Total weasel, no doubt about it. There was no extra charge when I bought my 3 SE3's.

Thanks everyone for the feedback about the extra 15%. I knew it was BS, just needed it confirmed. I'm going to try and speak with the owner when I go in to make my purchase, just need to make a final decision on which models I want. If anyone wants to give some feedback on my post #14252 you'd get me that much closer to actually becoming a Paradigm owner!

Just placed an order for Monitor 7's and cc-290!

My local dealer just told me that if I order 3 SE1's that I'll be charged an extra 15% on the odd one for ordering it separately. Has anyone ever heard of this surcharge or are they just trying to weasel more money out of me?Normally for speakers that are boxed as a pair (Studio 10's, Atom's, etc.) Paradigm charges $10 plus shipping when ordering a single speaker. The SE1's are boxed individually, so there is no additional charge. It's possible the dealer assumed they were boxed as a pair.

Normally for speakers that are boxed as a pair (Studio 10's, Atom's, etc.) Paradigm charges $10 plus shipping when ordering a single speaker. The SE1's are boxed individually, so there is no additional charge. It's possible the dealer assumed they were boxed as a pair.

The salesperson told me he just got off the phone with his Paradigm rep who told him about the 15%. One way or another, he flat out lied to me. Do you know how the Studio 20's are boxed?

Coming from a former dealer, that guy is HOOSING you big time. Only the Atoms & minimontors come 2 in a box Everything is single box.For accuracy's sake, these speakers come boxed as a pair (or more):
Atom Monitors
Mini Monitors
Titan Monitors
All Stylus Outdoor speakers
All In-Wall and In-Ceiling speakers (except those ending with -SM, -30, -ADP, or -LCR)
Millenia 200's
Millenia 300's
Studio 10's
Studio Esprit's
Signature S1's
Signature W5's

As for extra shipping that is also bogus. The dealer gets the product from Paradigm at 60-70% below MSRP. that is the margin the dealer has to pay for shipping , his store overhead and making a little profit. Go to 6th Ave Electronics, the sell & discount Paradigm as an authorized dealer.There is an extra charge of $10 for ordering a single when they are normally sold as a pair. And there is an extra charge for shipping that single because it is handled through the parts department. But, as a "former dealer", you knew that already. :rolleyes:

The salesperson told me he just got off the phone with his Paradigm rep who told him about the 15%. One way or another, he flat out lied to me. Do you know how the Studio 20's are boxed?Studio 20's are boxed individually, one per box.

...If anyone wants to give some feedback on my post #14252 you'd get me that much closer to actually becoming a Paradigm owner!

Given your options, I'd personally go with 3 SE1's.

My SE3's were boxed individually, so I imagine that the SE1's would be too (and thus, no justification on the dealer's part for the 15% surcharge, IMO).

Studio 20's are boxed individually, one per box.

I've had the Studio 20's v4 in my home and found them too laid back (returned them). Can I expect the same from the SE1's? I guess I'm too used to forward sounding speakers now.

Just placed an order for Monitor 7's and cc-290!

I am sure you will enjoy those very much! They are amazing speakers! :) I have the Monitor 11 5.1 system! Very impressed!! :)

I am sure you will enjoy those very much! They are amazing speakers! :) I have the Monitor 11 5.1 system! Very impressed!! :)

Nice....they should be in by Wednesday. Now to save up some more money and convince the wife that I need new surrounds and sub. :D

I've had the Studio 20's v4 in my home and found them too laid back (returned them). Can I expect the same from the SE1's? I guess I'm too used to forward sounding speakers now.I haven't heard the SE1's, so I can't give you an opinion. I can say that I really like my Studio 10's.

Coming from a former dealer, that guy is HOOSING you big time. Only the Atoms & minimontors come 2 in a box Everything is single box.

As for extra shipping that is also bogus. The dealer gets the product from Paradigm at 60-70% below MSRP. that is the margin the dealer has to pay for shipping , his store overhead and making a little profit. Go to 6th Ave Electronics, the sell & discount Paradigm as an authorized dealer.

i was at my local Paradigm dealer when a few Studio 10s came in and they DID come on pairs...as well as the pair I ordered for myself. :confused:

This is a bit off topic, but if anyone is in the market to make a trade I have a mint condition pair of Paradigm Studio 100's in real cherry veneer that I would like to trade for Studio 40's. I believe my 100's are V.3 or V.2. I bought them new and have never been able to take advantage of them and now my area is becoming more family friendly making even more difficult to fit these monsters. I have the boxes, etc and live in the midwest. Obviously I would be looking for a trade plus cash.

Finally I have my CC690v5. It looks and sounds excellent.

Finally I have my CC690v5. It looks and sounds excellent.

nice, do you plan to upgrade the towers to v.5

nice, do you plan to upgrade the towers to v.5

No.
Studio 60v4 are very good speakers. I don't need to change them for the moment.

I just received my studio 100's v.5 no scratches, however the right tweeter is not putting out any sound? The box's foam inside was broken and showed signs of less than delicate handeling.
Should I pull the tweeter and/or crossover to see if a wire inside came loose?
Thanks!

I just received my studio 100's v.5 no scratches, however the right tweeter is not putting out any sound? The box's foam inside was broken and showed signs of less than delicate handeling.
Should I pull the tweeter and/or crossover to see if a wire inside came loose?
Thanks!

Yes - open it, check connections, using omometer measure tweeter.

Yes - open it, check connections, using omometer measure tweeter.

that voids the warranty unless you bought them from a non authorized dealer...

I'm upgrading speakers, and I'm having a tough time figuring how to effectively choose good set. I'm upgrading from a 5.1 KLH set bought for about $250 in 2000, when I was a poor grad student: obviously, anything will be a step up.

At a local stereo boutique store, given my ~$2000 budget, the salesman took me to a 5.1 Paradigm kit:

Monitor 7 (Front L /R)
CC-190 (Center)
ADP-190 (Surrounds)
DSP-3100 (Sub)

I was immediately impressed by it. It sounded natural and and unified. But I don't know anything about Paradigm and it was also my first experience with a Dipole speaker. There's essentially no reviews online. Paradigm's website seems designed to prevent online research and comparisons, pushing me to a local dealer. This thread covers many years and speaker models, making a quick search fruitless.

Any suggestions or inputs are helpful. (Is Paradigm a reputable brand? Where can I find good reviews on Paradigm speakers? Any brands I should compare to? Is that kit at least a decent setup for ~$2000?)

If it helps my setup is:
Onkyo 707 receiver
Pioneer 5020 plasma
Living room is 15' (wide) x 16' (deep), with one side open to the kitchen & dining room.

Many thanks!

Don't get me wrong-I love my Studio 40's, but I have a chance to pick up some very little used PSB Image 4T's (2), and PSB Image 1B's (2). Having never heard PSB's before, are there any Paradigm owners who can give me an unbiased comparison between the Studio 40's v.2 and the Image 4T's? ;)

I'm upgrading speakers, and I'm having a tough time figuring how to effectively choose good set. I'm upgrading from a 5.1 KLH set bought for about $250 in 2000, when I was a poor grad student: obviously, anything will be a step up.

At a local stereo boutique store, given my ~$2000 budget, the salesman took me to a 5.1 Paradigm kit:

Monitor 7 (Front L /R)
CC-190 (Center)
ADP-190 (Surrounds)
DSP-3100 (Sub)

I was immediately impressed by it. It sounded natural and and unified. But I don't know anything about Paradigm and it was also my first experience with a Dipole speaker. There's essentially no reviews online. Paradigm's website seems designed to prevent online research and comparisons, pushing me to a local dealer. This thread covers many years and speaker models, making a quick search fruitless.

Any suggestions or inputs are helpful. (Is Paradigm a reputable brand? Where can I find good reviews on Paradigm speakers? Any brands I should compare to? Is that kit at least a decent setup for ~$2000?)

If it helps my setup is:
Onkyo 707 receiver
Pioneer 5020 plasma
Living room is 15' (wide) x 16' (deep), with one side open to the kitchen & dining room.

Many thanks!

I think Paradigms 14,000 + posts speaks for itself :D

I don't know where you are from but this package in Canada retails for about $2200.. and not knowing the final price he gave you (im guessing 2k) you got an average joe 1st time buyer discount ~10. I am sure your dealer can do a lot better..BUT... given your living room space (relatively large) Id consider a little something bigger than the 7s... Maybe move up the 9s and keep the same price range... Don't be afraid to ask for 'the best price'

What is a good price for Studio 100s v5? Where do you buy them?

No.
Studio 60v4 are very good speakers. I don't need to change them for the moment.

Are those DSP 3400's?? How do you like them?

Don't get me wrong-I love my Studio 40's, but I have a chance to pick up some very little used PSB Image 4T's (2), and PSB Image 1B's (2). Having never heard PSB's before, are there any Paradigm owners who can give me an unbiased comparison between the Studio 40's v.2 and the Image 4T's? ;)

I wouldn't make that swap. I went from the 6T's to the Studio 100 v.2's and they're not in the same ball park. I have both the 1B's and 2B's in my second system and while they're a great value speaker they don't compare to the v.2 Studio line.

That is exactly what I am doing. If you recall I was getting the 100s but due to unforseen circumstances I am moving and the room is very small. So I decided to get the 20s now and the 100s later. The next funny thing is the actual space for the set up is even smaller. Imagine the 15'x10' cut in half..... I am using the wall that is 15' for the tv but it will be in the corner and the set up measures about 6-7' so really and truly the area is actually 7'x10' in a 15'x10' room. Knowing this and knowing that I will be upgrading in the future should I still go the 20 with 690 route? Or would it be overkill?

Could someone please help?

I wouldn't make that swap. I went from the 6T's to the Studio 100 v.2's and they're not in the same ball park. I have both the 1B's and 2B's in my second system and while they're a great value speaker they don't compare to the v.2 Studio line.

Thanks rnrgagne, that's exactly what I was looking for.:) Sage advice from a trusted poster.;)

Could someone please help?If you know 100% that you'll be upgrading to the 100's, and moving to a room that warrents the 100's, than you should get the CC-690. But personally I think the CC-590 is more than adequate for all but the largest rooms.

What is a good price for Studio 100s v5? Where do you buy them?

I paid $2,200 for mine.
Now I am looking for a sub25!

I'm upgrading speakers, and I'm having a tough time figuring how to effectively choose good set. I'm upgrading from a 5.1 KLH set bought for about $250 in 2000, when I was a poor grad student: obviously, anything will be a step up.

At a local stereo boutique store, given my ~$2000 budget, the salesman took me to a 5.1 Paradigm kit:

Monitor 7 (Front L /R)
CC-190 (Center)
ADP-190 (Surrounds)
DSP-3100 (Sub)

I was immediately impressed by it. It sounded natural and and unified. But I don't know anything about Paradigm and it was also my first experience with a Dipole speaker. There's essentially no reviews online. Paradigm's website seems designed to prevent online research and comparisons, pushing me to a local dealer. This thread covers many years and speaker models, making a quick search fruitless.

Any suggestions or inputs are helpful. (Is Paradigm a reputable brand? Where can I find good reviews on Paradigm speakers? Any brands I should compare to? Is that kit at least a decent setup for ~$2000?)

If it helps my setup is:
Onkyo 707 receiver
Pioneer 5020 plasma
Living room is 15' (wide) x 16' (deep), with one side open to the kitchen & dining room.

Many thanks!

I'd replace the cc190 with the cc290...it is a much better center. I have both...upgraded from the 190 to the 290 and am vastly pleased.

Regarding Paradigm just "google" Paradigm in general or the individual speaker models and read the many reviews. They are regarded as a very nice speaker and a very good value. Paradigm makes quite a few models and they all do well.

Hello paradigm people, need some advise on a amp. Should i purchase this amp parasound 2125 (demo) 2 channel 125 wts right now or save up alittle more for a new nad 272 which is 2 channel 150 wts. I'll probally use studio 20's v4 but i also have the 100's? I can't afford the 5 channel amps. Another option is maybe buying from canuck audio mart (some older amps) but i'm not sure. thanks mike.

To be honest 25 watts per channel is very small...you will likely not hear one bit of difference between those two amps from a wattage standpoint (they might sound different but it wouldn't be because of the small increase in wattage).

Hello all,

I am looking for a pair of v.2 Studio 40s in black. If anyone has a pair for sale, please PM me.

Thanks.

Mike Sherman

Hello paradigm people, need some advise on a amp. Should i purchase this amp parasound 2125 (demo) 2 channel 125 wts right now or save up alittle more for a new nad 272 which is 2 channel 150 wts. I'll probally use studio 20's v4 but i also have the 100's? I can't afford the 5 channel amps. Another option is maybe buying from canuck audio mart (some older amps) but i'm not sure. thanks mike.
I would check out emotiva.com I bet you could afford their 5 channel amp its only 800 bucks if my memory serves me correct and I have seen a number of people in this forum that use that amp in their set up. And everything I have read on them says they are GREAT amplifiers for the money. hope this helps ya

I paid $2,200 for mine.
Now I am looking for a sub25!

Nice, thanks. Did you buy them at a local dealer?

Did you also get a CC-690 center or do you know what is a good price for this speaker?

To be honest 25 watts per channel is very small...you will likely not hear one bit of difference between those two amps from a wattage standpoint (they might sound different but it wouldn't be because of the small increase in wattage).

Thanks ,I blew a tweeter on one of my 100's from using a denon 2307 ci. My dealer gave me a new tweeter and its fixed now. So a 200wts/channel is a must and don't bother with the other amps i suggested? I just want to crank up my tunes/movies every now and then.

I'd replace the cc190 with the cc290...it is a much better center. I have both...upgraded from the 190 to the 290 and am vastly pleased.

Regarding Paradigm just "google" Paradigm in general or the individual speaker models and read the many reviews. They are regarded as a very nice speaker and a very good value. Paradigm makes quite a few models and they all do well.

Thanks. I'll take a closer look at the Center options. Unforunately, online searching for Paradigm reviews isn't fruitful. Lots of Epinion and Cnet links. Nothing on Monitor 7 specifically. Paradigm's website only links to About.com for "reviews".

I think Paradigms 14,000 + posts speaks for itself :D

I don't know where you are from but this package in Canada retails for about $2200.. and not knowing the final price he gave you (im guessing 2k) you got an average joe 1st time buyer discount ~10. I am sure your dealer can do a lot better..BUT... given your living room space (relatively large) Id consider a little something bigger than the 7s... Maybe move up the 9s and keep the same price range... Don't be afraid to ask for 'the best price'I'm in the US. The quote was $2050, which I assume was MSRP (I'm not a regular customer). With a $3000 cap, I have some flexibility on those choices.

I did try the 3400 sub, and that was substantially better than the 3100! Since Paradigm doesn't publish its MSRP, I can't mix and match speaker choices to find a combo with the best price / performance blend.

Were it your $3000 MSRP budget, how would you balance upgrade choices between Monitor 9, CC-290, and 3400 sub?

Were it your $3000 MSRP budget, how would you balance upgrade choices between Monitor 9, CC-290, and 3400 sub?
Assuming a discount, I'd think hard about Studio 20's, CC590, ADP-190's and a DSP-3400.

or go Monitor 11's, CC-390, DSP3400 and ADP-190's for a couple hundred less than the above (but I'd go Studio at the prices you're looking at spending)

Thanks. I'll take a closer look at the Center options. Unforunately, online searching for Paradigm reviews isn't fruitful. Lots of Epinion and Cnet links. Nothing on Monitor 7 specifically. Paradigm's website only links to About.com for "reviews".

Here's a short review. http://hometheaterreview.com/paradigm-monitor-7-floorstanding-loudspeakers-reviewed/

I'm looking to complete my 5.1 paradigm setup in my HT. Because I have a long open style HT room, in ceiling speakers are the best option for the rear channels. I'm hesitant a bit as I don't want to compromise the quality of surround sound by not having rear speakers right behind the couch but it just would not work out well for placement at all so I'm left with in-ceiling as my only option.

Has anyone had any experience with the SA-15R-SM in-ceiling speakers?

I am running 2 studio 60's up front with cc-590 centre channel and sub 15, all V5. These are powered by a Denon 3808.

Your advice is appreciated.

Thank you.

Mark

ttt

Are those DSP 3400's?? How do you like them?

Yes, those are two DSP3400.
For movies - great. Lot of power, no distortion. I use only 1/3 of the volume for each one.
I do not use them in stereo at all.

I am strongly considering an SE3 purchase in a 5.1 configuration. I will likely purchase the SE1 as surrounds. Would I be better off going with an SE1 or the SE center for the center channel?

Perhaps this is an obvious question, given that the center channel is specifically made for that purpose, but it seems like the SE1 may be a closer acoustical match since it shares more of the SE3's speaker configuration.

I am strongly considering an SE3 purchase in a 5.1 configuration. I will likely purchase the SE1 as surrounds. Would I be better off going with an SE1 or the SE center for the center channel?

Perhaps this is an obvious question, given that the center channel is specifically made for that purpose, but it seems like the SE1 may be a closer acoustical match since it shares more of the SE3's speaker configuration.
Any chance you could get another SE3? That would be the best acoustically speaking. Otherwise, I'd go with the SE Center due to its dual woofers are most likely going to get closer to the depth and soundstage the SE3's put out.

I am strongly considering an SE3 purchase in a 5.1 configuration. I will likely purchase the SE1 as surrounds. Would I be better off going with an SE1 or the SE center for the center channel?

Perhaps this is an obvious question, given that the center channel is specifically made for that purpose, but it seems like the SE1 may be a closer acoustical match since it shares more of the SE3's speaker configuration.

Any chance you could get another SE3? That would be the best acoustically speaking. Otherwise, I'd go with the SE Center due to its dual woofers are most likely going to get closer to the depth and soundstage the SE3's put out.

I wholeheartedly agree on a SE3 as a center channel.

However, the OP probably doesn't have the space for a tower (given his choice of a SE1 or SE-CC). I'd also choose the SE-CC in that case.

I am strongly considering an SE3 purchase in a 5.1 configuration. I will likely purchase the SE1 as surrounds. Would I be better off going with an SE1 or the SE center for the center channel?

Perhaps this is an obvious question, given that the center channel is specifically made for that purpose, but it seems like the SE1 may be a closer acoustical match since it shares more of the SE3's speaker configuration.

I would also get the SE Center. Just don't think the SE1 as a center will be able to keep up with the SE3 fronts. Great for the rears though. I just ordered 3 SE1's for my front three. Now the aggravating 7-10 day wait for them to go from Canada --> US Customs --> TX.

I just ordered 3 SE1's for my front three.

Give us your impressions when you get 'em! :)

Hello are the se-3 speakers msrp $699 a piece?

Hello are the se-3 speakers msrp $699 a piece?

Yes, U.S. MSRP is $699. Canadian MSRP is $829.

Hi folks,

Glad to join this forum! I recently purchased a Paradigm 70 CT 5.1 system from Amazon. I need your help in deciding what receiver would suit this system. I would like at least 2-3 HDMI inputs, 7.2 is good to have but not essential.
What are your thoughts on the Marantz NR1501 slimline receiver? My budget is under $500.
Also, where can I get suitable wall mount brackets for the Paradigm 70 CT speakers? I would like to mount them high and would need to tilt them downwards.
Thanks!
Red

Hi folks,

Glad to join this forum! I recently purchased a Paradigm 70 CT 5.1 system from Amazon. I need your help in deciding what receiver would suit this system. I would like at least 2-3 HDMI inputs, 7.2 is good to have but not essential.
What are your thoughts on the Marantz NR1501 slimline receiver? My budget is under $500.
Also, where can I get suitable wall mount brackets for the Paradigm 70 CT speakers? I would like to mount them high and would need to tilt them downwards.
Thanks!
Red

Onkyo 607 receiver - run my paradigms off of it and love it. I does get warm/hot. I have mine in a cabinet with coolerguys fans I installed.

Speaker mounts if these fit your speakers buy them. I think I could have hung from them myself they are awesome! I actually installed gang boxs into the wall, but you dont have to. They are 100% worth the money!

http://www.bracketsandstands.com/PINPOINT_AM20_SPEAKER_WALL_CEILING_MOUNT_BRACKETS_p/am20.htm

Thanks. I'll take a closer look at the Center options. Unforunately, online searching for Paradigm reviews isn't fruitful. Lots of Epinion and Cnet links. Nothing on Monitor 7 specifically. Paradigm's website only links to About.com for "reviews".

I'm in the US. The quote was $2050, which I assume was MSRP (I'm not a regular customer). With a $3000 cap, I have some flexibility on those choices.

I did try the 3400 sub, and that was substantially better than the 3100! Since Paradigm doesn't publish its MSRP, I can't mix and match speaker choices to find a combo with the best price / performance blend.

Were it your $3000 MSRP budget, how would you balance upgrade choices between Monitor 9, CC-290, and 3400 sub?
Shouting Man, not sure where you are looking on the Paradigm website but if you use this link it will take you to many Monitor 7 (and 9 and 11) reviews .....

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/reviews/review-2-4.paradigm

I'd go with the SE center.

I'm looking to complete my 5.1 paradigm setup in my HT. Because I have a long open style HT room, in ceiling speakers are the best option for the rear channels. I'm hesitant a bit as I don't want to compromise the quality of surround sound by not having rear speakers right behind the couch but it just would not work out well for placement at all so I'm left with in-ceiling as my only option.

Has anyone had any experience with the SA-15R-SM in-ceiling speakers?

I am running 2 studio 60's up front with cc-590 centre channel and sub 15, all V5. These are powered by a Denon 3808.

Your advice is appreciated.

Thank you.

Mark

Mark, I have a similar situation but trying to finish a "mini-Mark" set-up so to speak, w/ Studio 20s, CC470 and a Denon 2807. I'm looking at the SA-15Rs for my rear channesl but not the SA-15R-SM. I think you would simply need the -15R and not the -SM. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the -SMs are for an application where you would / could only place 1 speaker (like a bathroom?). The SAs are definitely the matching speaker for the Studio 20/40/60, so if you have to go w/ in-ceiling, they are the speaker for you / us! I have not had a chance to listen to them - my local dealer only has the AMS and CS series. Let me know what you end up doing.

Shouting Man, not sure where you are looking on the Paradigm website but if you use this link it will take you to many Monitor 7 (and 9 and 11) reviews .....

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/reviews/review-2-4.paradigm

Thanks. Whereever I had looked had a single link to About.com. Your link is much more useful.

are the SE3s better than the studio 20s?

are the SE3s better than the studio 20s?

I A-B'ed Studio 20s and Studio 60s in the store. The Studio 60s "enveloped" me more, if you know what I'm sayin'. That's why I bought the SE3s.

If you have a subwoofer in the mix, I suspect that it would be harder to tell the difference between the Studio 20s and SE3s. But, having owned the SE3s for a couple weeks now, I'm really enjoying them and I'm glad I went with the floorstanders.

Now, are the SE3s "better?"

Without a sub: YES.

With a sub: yes, I think so (but not by as much), but that's only my non-audiophile opinion.

thanks for the quick response and i definitely understand what you mean. As i have experienced, floorstanders do so much more than bookshelves but i cant accomodate them right now so i will definitely go for the 20s cause i will be putting a 15 incher subwoofer in the mix, so i guess i should be ok.

Hello

This is my setup:

Front Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 9 v2

Center Speaker: Paradigm CC-350

Surround L&R: Paradigm TITAN

Surround Rear L&R: Paradigm MICRO

Subwoofer: Paradigm PDR-12

I'm looking to complete my 5.1 paradigm setup in my HT. Because I have a long open style HT room, in ceiling speakers are the best option for the rear channels. I'm hesitant a bit as I don't want to compromise the quality of surround sound by not having rear speakers right behind the couch but it just would not work out well for placement at all so I'm left with in-ceiling as my only option.

Has anyone had any experience with the SA-15R-SM in-ceiling speakers?

I am running 2 studio 60's up front with cc-590 centre channel and sub 15, all V5. These are powered by a Denon 3808.

Your advice is appreciated.

Thank you.

MarkI have installed the SA-15R-SM's as surrounds on two occasions, and I feel they do a much better job emulating the effect of dipole surrounds than standard in-ceiling speakers. I have installed them one per channel (i.e., terminals wired in parallel) which presents a 4 ohm load to the amplifier, but your 3808 should be fine.

I A-B'ed Studio 20s and Studio 60s in the store. The Studio 60s "enveloped" me more, if you know what I'm sayin'. That's why I bought the SE3s.

If you have a subwoofer in the mix, I suspect that it would be harder to tell the difference between the Studio 20s and SE3s. But, having owned the SE3s for a couple weeks now, I'm really enjoying them and I'm glad I went with the floorstanders.

Now, are the SE3s "better?"

Without a sub: YES.

With a sub: yes, I think so (but not by as much), but that's only my non-audiophile opinion.

I was able to A/B test the Studio 20 v.5 VS. the SE1's and there is a noticeable difference in the sound.
The SE1's sounded hollow like the mids were missing when compared to the studios. They didn't sound bad at all, but side by side it was obvious that the studio had a more rounded sound.

Vocals on the studio seemed more full whereas they sounded slightly thin on the SE's - again the SE sounded good, just not as good as the studio!

Bass was another story, and it could be do to a lot of things, room interaction and placement etc. but the SE1's had as much or more bass than the much larger studios... However, the bass was not quite as detailed as the studio's.

I was very impressed overall with the SE1's, without direct comparison to the studios side by side it would be hard to say that the SE's don't sound great!

I also was able to compare both of these speakers against the Revel Performa F32's - These are much larger towers!
THere was more bass from the Revels, but they didnt sound as good to my ears. compared to the studios they were kinda flat, i guess? hard to explain, but they just didnt have a lively presentation.

I was able to A/B test the Studio 20 v.5 VS. the SE1's and there is a noticeable difference in the sound.
The SE1's sounded hollow like the mids were missing when compared to the studios. They didn't sound bad at all, but side by side it was obvious that the studio had a more rounded sound.

Vocals on the studio seemed more full whereas they sounded slightly thin on the SE's - again the SE sounded good, just not as good as the studio!

Bass was another story, and it could be do to a lot of things, room interaction and placement etc. but the SE1's had as much or more bass than the much larger studios... However, the bass was not quite as detailed as the studio's.

I was very impressed overall with the SE1's, without direct comparison to the studios side by side it would be hard to say that the SE's don't sound great!

Cool comparison! But not surprising as the SE1 is a much smaller and cheaper speaker than the Studio 20. And, yes, surprising about the bass! :eek:

I guess this contradicts what one dealer told an avs'er a few pages back: that the SE1's sound more like the Studio 20's than Studio 10's. I guess not.

Hey!

I have Paradigm Monitor 7 ver. 4 as the fronts in my 7.1 Home Theater setup. My receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR605. For surrounds I have Klipsch Quintett III and Velodyne VA1012 for sub.

I realize that mix and matching speakers is never a good idea, but I was wondering about upgrading the center channel, since it's kind of quiet. I'm looking for budget $200 or less. A little high end shop close to me has used speakers. Some of the options are DCM-KX-$120, Energy E XL-C1-$120, Mirage MCC-$99, Polk CS-100-$90,MB Quart CTR Stage-$190, ERA DESIGN 3 LCR ROSEWOOD-$210.

I would be using them for watching Blu-ray and gaming and sometimes dialogue is simply too quiet. Thanks for any input.

I was able to A/B test the Studio 20 v.5 VS. the SE1's and there is a noticeable difference in the sound.


Thanks for this. For comparison purposes, what is the price difference between the Studio 20 and the SE1?

Thanks for this. For comparison purposes, what is the price difference between the Studio 20 and the SE1?

The studios are $1200 list and the SE1 are $650 list I believe.
The studio 10 would probably be a more fair comparison to the SE1 since they both use the same size woofer, and are closer in price.

Hello,
I started speaker shopping recently, heard a few different brands and want to throw Paradigm into the mix. I finally found a local dealer with a pair of 60's on the floor and looking forward to hearing them. I plan on starting with the mains(possibly center) then adding on piece by piece. How much does a pair of 60's go for in black ash and should I expect a discount buying only the mains? Eventually I will get an amp when I add on, for now I plan to drive the mains with an Onkyo 906. Anyone driving there Paradigms with an Onkyo? I read somewhere in this thread Onkyo isn’t the best choice with Paradigm. The system will be used 35% music/ 65% HT/games

Thanks,
JC

Cool comparison! But not surprising as the SE1 is a much smaller and cheaper speaker than the Studio 20. And, yes, surprising about the bass! :eek:

I guess this contradicts what one dealer told an avs'er a few pages back: that the SE1's sound more like the Studio 20's than Studio 10's. I guess not.

They didn't have the 10's to try so I couldn't say. And my room is large so the 20's are about as small as I want to go!

Hello,
How much does a pair of 60's go for in black ash and should I expect a discount buying only the mains?

I gave $1998 for my pair of Studio 60 v.5's about 3 months ago and discounts are as good as the dealer you buy it from. This was my first buy from this dealer so he gave me a small discount (5%), though I hear others getting more. It is really up to the dealer.

Hey!

I have Paradigm Monitor 7 ver. 4 as the fronts in my 7.1 Home Theater setup. My receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR605. For surrounds I have Klipsch Quintett III and Velodyne VA1012 for sub.

I realize that mix and matching speakers is never a good idea, but I was wondering about upgrading the center channel, since it's kind of quiet. I'm looking for budget $200 or less. A little high end shop close to me has used speakers. Some of the options are DCM-KX-$120, Energy E XL-C1-$120, Mirage MCC-$99, Polk CS-100-$90,MB Quart CTR Stage-$190, ERA DESIGN 3 LCR ROSEWOOD-$210.

I would be using them for watching Blu-ray and gaming and sometimes dialogue is simply too quiet. Thanks for any input.

A high-end shop should let you demo them and give you some direction of what might be best for your application.

Hello,
I started speaker shopping recently, heard a few different brands and want to throw Paradigm into the mix. I finally found a local dealer with a pair of 60's on the floor and looking forward to hearing them. I plan on starting with the mains(possibly center) then adding on piece by piece. How much does a pair of 60's go for in black ash and should I expect a discount buying only the mains? Eventually I will get an amp when I add on, for now I plan to drive the mains with an Onkyo 906. Anyone driving there Paradigms with an Onkyo? I read somewhere in this thread Onkyo isn’t the best choice with Paradigm. The system will be used 35% music/ 65% HT/games

Thanks,
JC

I'm using a 906 w Studio 100s, CC590, ADP 590s, Seismic 10 in a 5.1 setup.
I have the 906 "Bridged" on the L R. Used Audyssey MultEQ XT.

Drives them very well. Fairly loud HT is around -20 db from absolute 0.
When I go to Sigs, I will probably add a 3 channel amp for the front. Right now I love this system. :D

Good luck with the 60s.

I gave $1998 for my pair of Studio 60 v.5's about 3 months ago and discounts are as good as the dealer you buy it from. This was my first buy from this dealer so he gave me a small discount (5%), though I hear others getting more. It is really up to the dealer.

some dealers are willing to deal and some arent!
I was quoted 15% off for studio 20's and SE center if I bought all three together.

Hi all, right now I have a set of Studio 100's fed off an Anthem MCA 20. My center is a Sig. C3 fed off one chann of an Anthem PVA 7. I have a chance to pick up a MCA 30 for not much more than the MCA 20 was. Do you think I will have much gain in running all off of the MCA 30 or should I stick with what I have now? Thanks

Assuming a discount, I'd think hard about Studio 20's, CC590, ADP-190's and a DSP-3400.

or go Monitor 11's, CC-390, DSP3400 and ADP-190's for a couple hundred less than the above (but I'd go Studio at the prices you're looking at spending)

In your first suggestion, the fronts are three model lines higher than the surrounds. Is there any sonic issue with high-end fronts and mid-range surrounds?

I have installed the SA-15R-SM's as surrounds on two occasions, and I feel they do a much better job emulating the effect of dipole surrounds than standard in-ceiling speakers. I have installed them one per channel (i.e., terminals wired in parallel) which presents a 4 ohm load to the amplifier, but your 3808 should be fine.

How would these compare to the SA-15R-30?

I am looking for the best sound clarity that I can get to come from the rear speakers.

Also, going with dipole's with the in-ceiling mounting, should I mount the speakers slightly behind the seating location (about 1-2 feet) or is there a more preferable distance from the seat location to mount?

Thanks again.

Hi all, right now I have a set of Studio 100's fed off an Anthem MCA 20. My center is a Sig. C3 fed off one chann of an Anthem PVA 7. I have a chance to pick up a MCA 30 for not much more than the MCA 20 was. Do you think I will have much gain in running all off of the MCA 30 or should I stick with what I have now? Thanks

I am runnin my Studios 10 v5 off an Anthem PVA 2 and have been eyeballing getting an MCA 30 to run my front three channels (center is cc590) in anticipationg of moving from the Studio 10s to the 100s once I get a new tv and reconfigure the room. If you pass on it let me know...I might be interested :)

Hi all.
I've been lurking for awhile, and like to thank everyone for helping me decide on getting paradigms as part of my upgrade project.

The main players in my new system are a Pioneer vsx-23txh, an Outlaw 7200
200wpc x 7 amp, studio 100's v.5 and a cc590 v.5

I'm only running it as a 5.1 setup , have no desire to go to a 7.1 setup, and have 2 unused channels on the amp.

I was toying with an idea, and want to run it by people with more experience than I....which would be just about everyone here.

I want to take the left amp input,use a y to also input it to the unused back surround left, disconnect the bridging plate from the 4 speaker posts of the 100's, then run speaker wire from the left out to one set of speaker posts, and the back surround left out to the other set of posts, and then do the same for the other side.

So, the question is, would there be any real benefit to doing this?

Edit to explain user name....totally harmless, my two hobbies are target shooting, and building and flying rc aircraft.

Also called passive bi amping. Endless debates on the topic, like comparing religion or baby pictures (who has the cutest little one), there is no clear answer. My guess would be that you would not hear a difference but depending on how well the Outlaw handles low ohm loads (the older Studio 100's dipped under 3 ohms, if the V5 do the same it is pretty demanding on the amp) you may hear an improvement.

I had a set of V3 100's and a 120 WPC receiver that made them sound like something that needed to be returned. External AMP fixed the sound issues so I kept them. Not having enough on the 100's (and I was not playing them loud or in a large room) does impact the sound quality. This from practical experience.

Try it out, you do not need any fancy speaker cable, buy some wire, stretch it out, try it.

Ever combine your hobbies? :)



Hi all.
I've been lurking for awhile, and like to thank everyone for helping me decide on getting paradigms as part of my upgrade project.

The main players in my new system are a Pioneer vsx-23txh, an Outlaw 7200
200wpc x 7 amp, studio 100's v.5 and a cc590 v.5

I'm only running it as a 5.1 setup , have no desire to go to a 7.1 setup, and have 2 unused channels on the amp.

I was toying with an idea, and want to run it by people with more experience than I....which would be just about everyone here.

I want to take the left amp input,use a y to also input it to the unused back surround left, disconnect the bridging plate from the 4 speaker posts of the 100's, then run speaker wire from the left out to one set of speaker posts, and the back surround left out to the other set of posts, and then do the same for the other side.

So, the question is, would there be any real benefit to doing this?

Edit to explain user name....totally harmless, my two hobbies are target shooting, and building and flying rc aircraft.

I like bass,but after tweeking the receiver settings, I'm not really getting what I thought I would.

I got an svs sub, but wanted more from the 100's, and thought that giving a channel exclusively to the low end might help.

It doesn't help that the room is about 3,500 scf, a finished basement
19' x 27' with carpeted cement floor.

I thought about trying to bridge those two amp channels, but can't find out if you can do that with an outlaw.

My last system was an all in one box sony deal from about 18 years ago, so this whole upgrade project has been a tremendous learning curve.

Thanks for the reply by the way, and I may try it for shiats and giggles....just to see.

As far as combining my two hobbies, well....I've had occasion to crash a time...or two..or more over the years, and have done enough damage unintentionally, that there's just no need to bring out the artillery.

Hmmm, a pic every few pages always helps things along.

My humble mid-fi rig.

Pioneer vsx-23txh receiver
Outlaw 7200 amp
Pioneer PD-F1009 CD changer
Pioneer CT-W606DR cassette deck
Technics SL-1200MK turntable
Grado green cartridge
Cambridge Audio 540P pre-amp
SVS PB12NSD sub
Antimode 8033c sub equalizer
Paradigm studio 100 v.5 x2
Paradigm cc590
Speakercraft Aim7three in ceilings , yeah...I couldn't get around those.
Sony bravia W52 series 52" lcd
Oppo BDP-83 blu-ray player

This was my first step into something current, it cost about the most I could hope to swing, and,god, I hope it lasts a long long time.

I can't possibly say how much this forum,and some others, helped to educate me.

I thank you all.

And now that I finagled my way to the 3 posts needed to put up a hotlink, this is for video_bit_bucket, your rc plane vs guns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVms5xxwpEE&feature=related

I gave $1998 for my pair of Studio 60 v.5's about 3 months ago and discounts are as good as the dealer you buy it from. This was my first buy from this dealer so he gave me a small discount (5%), though I hear others getting more. It is really up to the dealer.

Thanks for the info, your set up looks fantastic btw. Your entertainment stand looks like it was built around the center.

I'm using a 906 w Studio 100s, CC590, ADP 590s, Seismic 10 in a 5.1 setup.
I have the 906 "Bridged" on the L R. Used Audyssey MultEQ XT.

Drives them very well. Fairly loud HT is around -20 db from absolute 0.
When I go to Sigs, I will probably add a 3 channel amp for the front. Right now I love this system. :D

Good luck with the 60s.

Thanks:)

In your first suggestion, the fronts are three model lines higher than the surrounds. Is there any sonic issue with high-end fronts and mid-range surrounds?There is some discussion about this issue, and of course, some disagreement. My opinion is very little come out of surrounds, and when it does it's usually special effects. My only concern for surrounds is that they aren't so small that they can't produce enough sound to really fill the room with convincing noise. The ADP-190's are up to the task. Others may disagree.

Is anyone using any of the Studio in wall/in ceiling speakers as surrounds? How do they sound? I have a pair of SA-15R that I'm debating using as surrounds in a 5.1 setup with a pair of Studio 40's and Studio CC. They would have to go in the ceiling, about 2-3 feet behind the main listening position. Installing them is not an issue since I have easy access to the attic and I would probably box them in between the ceiling joists using mdf.

Thanks for the info, your set up looks fantastic btw. Your entertainment stand looks like it was built around the center.

TY and yes the Standout Designs Horizon N702 Plus that houses the gear does seem it was made for that CC-590, fits perfectly in that space, I love it.

DUAL CC-590's??????

As mentioned above, that unit I have fits the CC-590 like a glove, but I have this massive itch to go with a CC-690 because I know that 590 seems to work harder to keep up with the Studio 100's and 60's (or maybe I just want a bigger CC and am making excuses here), either way a CC-690 will not fit. So I was thinking last night that I do have both of those center sections in that Horizon cabinet, they are symetrical so that means the bottom section would also fit a CC-590 perfectly as well.

So why couldn't I get another CC-590 and place that in the bottom section? Would this be a different way to get what I wanted? Which is a more pronounced center channel sound that doesnt seem to be fighting to keep up with the Studio 100's.

Now the questions come:
Would the Pioneer SC-27 which pushes 140w per channel (Class D amps) be able to handle dual CC-590's?

I always confuse myself, do I run speaker wires from the SC-27 to each CC or do I run the first set to the first CC, use the second set of posts on the first CC to connect the next CC in series?

Should I consider an AMP for the second CC and use the SC-27 to power the first CC? I could connect an external AMP to the PRE OUT CC connector on the SC-27 and feed the second CC-590 with that, right?

Would the second CC-590 be too low or close to the floor to be of much benefit? Isn't a Center Channel supposed to be firing directly at your seated position for the best clarity and sound? If this is placed at the bottom of the Horizon cabinet - would it help the sound or would I be wasting money?

Would I be better served by having a CC-490 which is considerably smaller, but it may fit just sitting on top of the Horizon cabinet and possibly not block the bottom of the TV view, but would be placed more at ear level - would this be a better option to give me a bit more center channel without overkill?

DUAL CC-590's??????

I don't think that would be a good idea because of something called comb filtering. (To be honest, I don't know exactly what that is ... I'm only passing on info I've seen from other avs'ers who don't recommend dual CC because of this.)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023586&highlight=dual+center+channel

Thanks a lot for that input.
Are there any others who currently own a paradigm 70 CT? What does your setup look like?

I like bass,but after tweeking the receiver settings, I'm not really getting what I thought I would.

I got an svs sub, but wanted more from the 100's, and thought that giving a channel exclusively to the low end might help.

It doesn't help that the room is about 3,500 scf, a finished basement
19' x 27' with carpeted cement floor.

I thought about trying to bridge those two amp channels, but can't find out if you can do that with an outlaw.

My last system was an all in one box sony deal from about 18 years ago, so this whole upgrade project has been a tremendous learning curve.



I always recommend to those new in this hobby to go over to the Audio Theory & Setup threads and do some reading on room acoustics, EQ and treatments. There's a wealth of information there that will give you ideas on how to improve the bass response in your room. The equipment you have should be sufficient to create decent bass so it's likely a set up issue.

Passive bi-amping as you suggested certainly won't do any harm but it's not very significant in the big scheme of things. If I recall correctly you can add about 3db of extra headroom doing so.
3db is sort of the minimum amount of difference you can hear, which is why a lot of speakers' frequency responses are listed as 20hz to 20khz +/- 3db or the likes.

In a room that large you might be better off to make sure the sub placement is optimal, and then cross-over your 100's at 60hz or above if you're not already doing so.

Is anyone using any of the Studio in wall/in ceiling speakers as surrounds? How do they sound? I have a pair of SA-15R that I'm debating using as surrounds in a 5.1 setup with a pair of Studio 40's and Studio CC. They would have to go in the ceiling, about 2-3 feet behind the main listening position. Installing them is not an issue since I have easy access to the attic and I would probably box them in between the ceiling joists using mdf.

We pair SA 15r with all studio speaker setups when customers need in-ceiling speakers. That being said, I would put the speakers just ahead or directly over your listening position. Surrounds are supposed to be slightly ahead or next to your listening position, while rears go behind you. There is much more info for surrounds than rears, so make sure you hook them up as surrounds in the AVR.

Hi all, right now I have a set of Studio 100's fed off an Anthem MCA 20. My center is a Sig. C3 fed off one chann of an Anthem PVA 7. I have a chance to pick up a MCA 30 for not much more than the MCA 20 was. Do you think I will have much gain in running all off of the MCA 30 or should I stick with what I have now? Thanks

The MCA will almost double the power that the PVA puts out for the center, so if you are listening at louder levels, there will be a big advantage to jumping up to the MCA. It will play louder and have more headroom than the PVA. I think build quality is also better with the MCA as well.


I would do it, especially if the price is almost the same as a MCA20.

We pair SA 15r with all studio speaker setups when customers need in-ceiling speakers. That being said, I would put the speakers just ahead or directly over your listening position. Surrounds are supposed to be slightly ahead or next to your listening position, while rears go behind you. There is much more info for surrounds than rears, so make sure you hook them up as surrounds in the AVR.

Thank you for the info. Putting them over the listening area will actually make the installation easier since I won't have to battle with the hvac air handler in that area.

I'm confused about "surrounds" vs. "rears" relative to a 5.1 set-up. Can someone (Need4spdnb?) elaborate?

In a 5.1 system, with in-ceilings as the 2 speaker rear or surround solution, what is the optimal way to place them - as "rears" or "surrounds"? (Sorry if this is a HT101 question!)
I guess I was always under the impression that a 5.1 system consisted of L/R/C and Rears and a 7.1 system consisted of L/R/C, Rears and Surrounds.

I like bass,but after tweeking the receiver settings, I'm not really getting what I thought I would.

I got an svs sub, but wanted more from the 100's, and thought that giving a channel exclusively to the low end might help.

I run two Studio 100's v.5 for my fronts and I also like bass (my wife is bass intollerant), so I had to find a way to get the bass when she is gone and reduce it while she is here. This put me on a quest to understand what settings on my receiver and subwoofers give me the range when I want bass and when I do not want to argue over the bass.

Before I go futher, one thing that is most critical is your receiver's capabilities, speaker set up within your receivers setttings and the sound field settings you are using - those alone can make or break the "exciting" bass you may be looking for. To compare to something you may relate to, its like a 40mm firing versus a .22 cal -what kind of UMMPH are you looking for? Do you have what you need to get that effect you want? You did not mention your receiver, so that is a missing link for me.

First I found having my crossover set to 50hz on my receiver helped as the Studio 100's can handle the 50hz without issue, even at higher volumes.

Second I found that my receiver (Pioneer SC-27) needed to be on the PLUS setting in the Subwoofer option before it would actually feed the sub's.

Third I found that many times the "Direct" soundfield option gives me a much better sound and bass response over "Stereo" or other sound field settings, though I would experiment with all your sound field settings in the same song to find the one that sounds right for you.

Last I found that if I adjust the "Gain" on my subwoofers, when my wife is out running errands I turn it up and rattle both my windows and my neighbors windows very well and yet I can turn the gain back down to almost sub-human hearing and it is set for my wife to come home.

The best suggestion is to tweak, check, play and find the settings you want. I can promise you though these Studio 100's can produce some admirable bass alone. Backed with a sub or multiple sub's, it just makes it better. That SVS sub you have should be hitting pretty hard as well, so I would go back and check Receiver settings because it is not the speakers fault they are not getting either the right freq's to give you the bass you want or enough power to produce them - it falls back on the reciever/amps.

I also agree with the Passive Bi-amp mention above. I went with bi-amping again the other day and I still do not see much of a difference between bi-amped and non-bi-amped but again I am not an "audiophile" that can tell you this or that about whatever, I just know what I hear and if it either sounds good or doesn't and I see no appreciable difference between bi-amp and not. However theoretically it is supposed to produce more clarity in sound being fed to the bi-amp'd speaker.

Just my thoughts for what its worth.

I'm confused about "surrounds" vs. "rears" relative to a 5.1 set-up. Can someone (Need4spdnb?) elaborate?

In a 5.1 system, with in-ceilings as the 2 speaker rear or surround solution, what is the optimal way to place them - as "rears" or "surrounds"? (Sorry if this is a HT101 question!)
I guess I was always under the impression that a 5.1 system consisted of L/R/C and Rears and a 7.1 system consisted of L/R/C, Rears and Surrounds.

BigSwede,
Your surrounds should typically be to the side and the surround back (or rear) should be behind you. Sort of like this:


Left.................................Center................. ................Right



Surround Left..................:)YOU:)...................Surround Right



.........Surround Back Left..............Surround Back Right.........



Someone else may do a better job of explaining it, but that's the general idea.

We pair SA 15r with all studio speaker setups when customers need in-ceiling speakers. That being said, I would put the speakers just ahead or directly over your listening position. Surrounds are supposed to be slightly ahead or next to your listening position, while rears go behind you. There is much more info for surrounds than rears, so make sure you hook them up as surrounds in the AVR.

If a person was trying to get a 7.1 setup, could you put 2 in-ceiling speakers ahead of the listening position (to act as the sides) and 2 in-ceiling speakers behind (to act as the back surrounds) or would this not sound too good?

I currently have Paradigm Monitor 7 ver. 4 speakers. What would be a good center channel to match with these? I've read that you could do the 370 v.4, or 190, or 290 version 5. What about the 350? Also, any recommended places where I can find a nice price, kind of rare in the US. Thanks

If a person was trying to get a 7.1 setup, could you put 2 in-ceiling speakers ahead of the listening position (to act as the sides) and 2 in-ceiling speakers behind (to act as the back surrounds) or would this not sound too good?

That is exactly what we do with in-ceiling surrounds and rears.

I'm confused about "surrounds" vs. "rears" relative to a 5.1 set-up. Can someone (Need4spdnb?) elaborate?

In a 5.1 system, with in-ceilings as the 2 speaker rear or surround solution, what is the optimal way to place them - as "rears" or "surrounds"? (Sorry if this is a HT101 question!)
I guess I was always under the impression that a 5.1 system consisted of L/R/C and Rears and a 7.1 system consisted of L/R/C, Rears and Surrounds.

In a 5.1 setup, you connect your surround speakers to the surround inputs on your receiver. In a 7.1 setup, you have surrounds (left and right) as well as rears (left and right).

I currently have Paradigm Monitor 7 ver. 4 speakers. What would be a good center channel to match with these? I've read that you could do the 370 v.4, or 190, or 290 version 5. What about the 350? Also, any recommended places where I can find a nice price, kind of rare in the US. Thanks

Just about any of the center channels mentioned above will work. It all depends on the size you want as well as how much you want to spend. They have all been part of the monitor line and will blend (timbre match) with your existing towers. You can always try Audiogon and ebay for used, visit a local paradigm dealer for new.

How would these compare to the SA-15R-30?

I am looking for the best sound clarity that I can get to come from the rear speakers.

Also, going with dipole's with the in-ceiling mounting, should I mount the speakers slightly behind the seating location (about 1-2 feet) or is there a more preferable distance from the seat location to mount?

Thanks again.The SA-15R-30's when used as surrounds are intended to be aimed at the side walls, according to Paradigm, with the sound reflecting off of the wall to the listening position. I've never installed them, or any of the 30 degree inceilings, in that way but I've been curious to. But I don't any first hand knowledge installing them that way. I've installed them as the LCR's and they do a very good job.

I think it comes down to what you want from the surrounds. If you would like to get as close to a dipole surround from in-ceiling speakers, I would get the SA-15R-SM's and mount them slightly behind and to the side of the main seating area. If you would like the most precise imaging from an in-ceiling speaker, get the SA-15R-30's and mount them in nearly the same location (to the side, slightly behind) and aim them at the listening position. I'd say 1-2 feet further to the side from the end seat of the row, depending somewhat on the room's width.

So if sound clarity is your primary goal, the SA-15R-30's might be the best choice, aimed at the L.P..

The SA-15R-30's when used as surrounds are intended to be aimed at the side walls, according to Paradigm, with the sound reflecting off of the wall to the listening position. I've never installed them, or any of the 30 degree inceilings, in that way but I've been curious to. But I don't any first hand knowledge installing them that way. I've installed them as the LCR's and they do a very good job.

I think it comes down to what you want from the surrounds. If you would like to get as close to a dipole surround from in-ceiling speakers, I would get the SA-15R-SM's and mount them slightly behind and to the side of the main seating area. If you would like the most precise imaging from an in-ceiling speaker, get the SA-15R-30's and mount them in nearly the same location (to the side, slightly behind) and aim them at the listening position. I'd say 1-2 feet further to the side from the end seat of the row, depending somewhat on the room's width.

So if sound clarity is your primary goal, the SA-15R-30's might be the best choice, aimed at the L.P..

Thanks for the advice...

I need a audio for dummies translation on a couple of things...

what is a LCR and L.P.?

Thanks again.

Mark

I like bass,but after tweeking the receiver settings, I'm not really getting what I thought I would.

I got an svs sub, but wanted more from the 100's, and thought that giving a channel exclusively to the low end might help.

It doesn't help that the room is about 3,500 scf, a finished basement
19' x 27' with carpeted cement floor.

I thought about trying to bridge those two amp channels, but can't find out if you can do that with an outlaw.

My last system was an all in one box sony deal from about 18 years ago, so this whole upgrade project has been a tremendous learning curve.

Thanks for the reply by the way, and I may try it for shiats and giggles....just to see.

As far as combining my two hobbies, well....I've had occasion to crash a time...or two..or more over the years, and have done enough damage unintentionally, that there's just no need to bring out the artillery.

Hi there I too have a set of 100s and I love then. Good bass with no sub but awesome with one for the type of music I like. At the start I too had a problem with a lack of bass. Can I ask how far from the back and side walls do you have them? What do you power them with AVR or dedicated amp, how many watts per chann. I have mine set to full range or larger with no probs and sound great even at loud levels. I think with the proper placement and good clean power you will find that they are a great speaker. I power mine with a mca 20 that has about 200w/chan at 8ohns and over double @ 2ohms. Some reviews say that the 100s can dip to 3 ohms or so.

Thanks for the advice...

I need a audio for dummies translation on a couple of things...

what is a LCR and L.P.?

Thanks again.

MarkLCR = left center right

L.P. = listening position

Now if we could get that in a 5.1 with an accurate LFE channel it would rock the room!


And now that I finagled my way to the 3 posts needed to put up a hotlink, this is for video_bit_bucket, your rc plane vs guns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVms5xxwpEE&feature=related

You might try for fun pulling the 100's so the back of the speaker is 18 or so inches from the wall and see what that does for the sound. Mine always need the room for the bass to sound right but then I had the V3's.


Hmmm, a pic every few pages always helps things along.

My humble mid-fi rig.

Pioneer vsx-23txh receiver
Outlaw 7200 amp
Pioneer PD-F1009 CD changer
Pioneer CT-W606DR cassette deck
Technics SL-1200MK turntable
Grado green cartridge
Cambridge Audio 540P pre-amp
SVS PB12NSD sub
Antimode 8033c sub equalizer
Paradigm studio 100 v.5 x2
Paradigm cc590
Speakercraft Aim7three in ceilings , yeah...I couldn't get around those.
Sony bravia W52 series 52" lcd
Oppo BDP-83 blu-ray player

This was my first step into something current, it cost about the most I could hope to swing, and,god, I hope it lasts a long long time.

I can't possibly say how much this forum,and some others, helped to educate me.

I thank you all.

There is some discussion about this issue, and of course, some disagreement. My opinion is very little come out of surrounds, and when it does it's usually special effects.Thanks. It helps to know the personal biases / goals behind recommendations. I need to schedule some more demo time at the local dealer and see if they can do an A/B between the Monitor line and Studio line.

Just an FYI, I found a new review of the Studio 20 v5 speakers in home theater review web site:

http://hometheaterreview.com/paradigm-reference-studio-20-v5-bookshelf-speaker-reviewed/

Coming from a former dealer, that guy is HOOSING you big time. Only the Atoms & minimontors come 2 in a box Everything is single box.

As for extra shipping that is also bogus. The dealer gets the product from Paradigm at 60-70% below MSRP. that is the margin the dealer has to pay for shipping , his store overhead and making a little profit. Go to 6th Ave Electronics, the sell & discount Paradigm as an authorized dealer.

There are quite a few speakers that come in 2 in a box now, not just those 2 speakers.

Dealers do not get speakers 60-70% below MSRP. I don't know where you picked that number up from, but that is untrue. Why would so many A/V companies be going out of business right now if they made that much profit?

There are quite a few speakers that come in 2 in a box now, not just those 2 speakers.

Dealers do not get speakers 60-70% below MSRP. I don't know where you picked that number up from, but that is untrue. Why would so many A/V companies be going out of business right now if they made that much profit?

I don't want to get into a pissing contest over what I know to be the absolute facts. Nor do I choose to explain in detail my 28 years as a Audio retailer on Long Island, New York.

Believe what you choose to believe("I know what I know, don't confuse me with the facts) and let the readers decide what they want to gleen from the postings.:rolleyes:

Even IF they got speakers @ 60-70% below MSRP... why would you announce it here?

...Pretty dumb move letting the public know how much of a discount they 'should' expect... 2 things happen then:

1 consumers lose...because they expect a 'deep' discount and if they do not get it they feel ripped off... which is not a way to go around it.

2. the dealers lose..they would lose profit because now consumers are demanding a bigger discount or threaten to go somewhere else....

...Which is how they television industry went... and now you'll be luck to get 300 dollars profit of a t.v

...No one is questioning your 28 years of experience... just do not ruin it for the current generation.

I currently have Paradigm Monitor 7 ver. 4 speakers. What would be a good center channel to match with these? I've read that you could do the 370 v.4, or 190, or 290 version 5. What about the 350? Also, any recommended places where I can find a nice price, kind of rare in the US. Thanks


Just about any of the center channels mentioned above will work. It all depends on the size you want as well as how much you want to spend. They have all been part of the monitor line and will blend (timbre match) with your existing towers. You can always try Audiogon and ebay for used, visit a local paradigm dealer for new.

Ok, I found a Ver 3. CC-370-on ebay, and a CC-450 Reference on Audiogon-still uncertain of the Version, and a CC-290 Version 4. There is also a CC-350 on ebay(but isn't that like 12 years old?). I realize that ~$300 seems to be standard for these used. Since I'll have to get a new TV/Entertainment stand, it stands to be a net $600 or so investment for me due to space considerations. I'm just sick of quiet dialogue when watching blu-rays.

On a side note-when running the Audyssey equilizer setup function, it has been setting my Monitor 7s-to full range; the center to 150, and the rears to 125 hz; with my sub @ 80hz and -9DB. The center is only said to have a range of 125-23khz, and the satelites 120-23khz, while the monitor 7's I think go to 54khz, should I manually adjust these? And if so, will there be a gab in my sub frequencies? -9 DB and a quiet center channel just means I have to turn the volume up really high to get any kind of good movie experience; like at least 55-60 on the Onkyo TX-SR605.

Thanks for any good feedback.

Even IF they got speakers @ 60-70% below MSRP... why would you announce it here?

...No one is questioning your 28 years of experience... just do not ruin it for the current generation.


Likely because he is letting the air out of the Paradigm Balloon - and trying to get you guys to see the light of High End Audio... It certainly doesn't surprise me one bit....

Gino, you still involved in the business...?

Oh and BTW - stop looking at him like he is peeing in your cereal... he has some inside info to help people NOT get ripped off or taken advantage of, especially in times as tight as these....

I don't want to get into a pissing contest over what I know to be the absolute facts.So, you're saying that it is an absolute fact that Atom's and Mini's are the only speakers that come in Master Packs of 2? (And as a former dealer, I'm sure you're familiar with the term Master Pack, right?) And you're also saying that there isn't a separate shipping charge when ordering a speaker that requires breaking a Master Pack, and that that process cannot be included in a normal shipment because it has to be handled through the Paradigm parts department?

that that process cannot be included in a normal shipment because it has to be handled through the Paradigm parts department?


"Cannot" is a relative term here people....

A dealer can TRY to put onto the customer whatever they feel they can get away with.... It is up to you the consumer to realize what is fair and what you can negotiate.... Also please be aware that a dealer is invested in this business to ahhhhhh make a profit... so don't you think its somewhat fair to allow a dealer to make some profit...

If none of this is clear to you... take some time to look for used, demo items, second hand products at places like Audiogon, videogon, ebay or local venues like craigslist... I have bought plenty of stuff from audiogon... which are still in use and I love them... Paradigm Sigs .v1 in the beautiful but discontinued rosewood...

Likely because he is letting the air out of the Paradigm Balloon - and trying to get you guys to see the light of High End Audio... It certainly doesn't surprise me one bit....

Gino, you still involved in the business...?

WARP...Thanks for covering my back.

I was a client of and then after several years bought a share of a salon on the South shore of Long Island (an eastern suburb of NYC) the salon was primarily a 2 channel retailer of mid to high end brands, CJ, Bryston, Rotel, Audio Research, Denon, Thiel, Paradigm, Martin Logon, VPI, SOTA, Oracle, REL, Magnum Dynalab, among others. We were extremely selective in our product lines and sold no product that could be found in Best Buy or mid-fi retailers.

To the day we hung it up that was our credo.

One of my partners died and I and my remaining partner continued the business until early 2009 when after 28 years we decided to close up.

Among the reasons included our failure to make a serious effort in the Home theater arena. While we sold and installed HTR and surround speaker products, we had NO video products (projectors, TV's). Try as I did to persuade my partner for us to move in that direction, The brands we desired to represent (Pioneer, Stewart, Samsung were already locked up by other retailers. Nor did we want to carry any of their other products (Pioneer).And if you spent any time in retail, you know how hard it is to cherry pick through a product line. IF you want the TV's they come with the DVD, If you want the Receiver line, you get the amps, DVD and possibly the lousy TV's that are being sold for $49.00 down the street.

And so on, and so on.

We closed on a positive note and parted mutually.

I'm sorry some members here who remain in the business feel threatened by the truth being known about dealer markups. Though again, i refer to the dozens of posts I've made over time addressing this specific issue.:)

We were among the largest Paradigm dealers in the area, so I'm quite familiar on wholesale pricing. I don't need to pull it out of my *rse to try to impress the readers.

Should someone take the time to read through my 300+ posts on this forum, you will see that I endeavor to educate the buyer in virtually every instance when it comes to product pricing and what constitutes a reasonable expectation of price to pay.

Unlike a reformed smoker or an alcoholic, I don't preach about the unscrupulous dealers. As for "making only $300 on tv's", discounters have been around since time immemorial.

With the growth of home theater,

So, you're saying that it is an absolute fact that Atom's and Mini's are the only speakers that come in Master Packs of 2? (And as a former dealer, I'm sure you're familiar with the term Master Pack, right?) And you're also saying that there isn't a separate shipping charge when ordering a speaker that requires breaking a Master Pack, and that that process cannot be included in a normal shipment because it has to be handled through the Paradigm parts department?

The type of products I'm writing about can't be found in Radio shack or Walmart.

Master pak, or Palletized delivery wouldn't likely be used For Paradigm, Snell, Focal and any serious speaker manufacturer. On the Other hand many Electronics manufacturers routinely palletize their gear due its smaller size.

So whats your point? mid-low level products can sometimes come delivered on a skid? :D

2 options I have come up with, after a lot of research + reading this entire thread.

1) Studio 20, CC 550, Sub 12

2) Studio 60, cc 550, DSP 3400

+ ADP 390's for side surround duty (5.1)

1400 cu/ft basement theatre (opens to another 1400 cu/ft room)
Mainly HT use 80/20 mix to music.

If i'm correct, both options roughly the same price.

Both options are at the top of my budget.

Presently have (since new) V.3 atom, cc270, PDR 12 in a living room setup .

Your thoughts please. Many Thanks.

Oh and BTW - stop looking at him like he is peeing in your cereal... he has some inside info to help people NOT get ripped off or taken advantage of, especially in times as tight as these....

...At "times as tight as these" people shouldnt be buying thousand dollar speakers, its the dealers trying to stay in business not the consumer.

WARP...Thanks for covering my back.




Hey what can I say...... I know over the past few years we had differering opinions about a few things - mainly internet subwoofers, I am very appreciable in the fact that a dealer can lend some knowledge towards the consumer about how the inner workings between dealer and Company work - which is then passed on to the unknowing consumer...

I have bought many a product used on Audiogon - and been mainly very happy with the resulting savings as well as performance, but yet I chose to go to my local dealer which is also a customer of my own and someone who has also developed into a good friend - to get my mains in my system.... I got a pair of Cherry Sig S8's .v3 through him to continue our relationship and have the security of a good solid warranty. His customer support has been priceless in my continuing adventure through my Audio/Video adventure...

Without dealers such as this - the High End world would soon come to and end....

Thank you Dave - if your listening...

Hello all .. I am new to this forum. Need advice on Receiver to go with the new Paradigm Studio 100 v5 , CC-690 , Monitor Mini's for sourround 7.1 Setup, Sub DSP-3200. I am Room size 19 x 16 . 50% Music and 50% Movies Usage

My options are as follows I have budget of max 2k.

1)Pioneer VSX-23TXH as Receiver / Emotiva XPA-5
(I have listened to this and I like the diffrent sourround modes this has No GUI info about diffrent modes)
2) Marantz SR 5004 / Emotiva XPA-5 (Have listen to the SR 6004 seems to be same Save some money. Sounds good don't have as many sourround Listening modes as the VSX-23THX)

3) DHC-40.1 as sourround preamp / Emotiva UPA-7 (Didn't get a chance to listen to this )

4) NAD T-175 / NAT 955 ( Local dealer has this for under 2k, But never listened to this)

5) YAMAHA RX-3900BL / XPA-5 (Not Sure how will it sound)

Could you all pitch in and help me decide .. I really appricate all the diffrent posts out there.



Also please suggest other Receiver / Amp that can go good with studio 100's

2 options I have come up with, after a lot of research + reading this entire thread.

1) Studio 20, CC 550, Sub 12

2) Studio 60, cc 550, DSP 3400

+ ADP 390's for side surround duty (5.1)

1400 cu/ft basement theatre (opens to another 1400 cu/ft room)
Mainly HT use 80/20 mix to music.

If i'm correct, both options roughly the same price.

Both options are at the top of my budget.

Presently have (since new) V.3 atom, cc270, PDR 12 in a living room setup .

Your thoughts please. Many Thanks.

MayI make a suggestion and ask a few questions as well?

Questions first, why are you considering dipoles for the rear surrounds? Do you have incompatible wall angle issues? Have you listened to dipoles? You are aware their radiation pattern will for the most part make localization diffuse and somewhat random. Sort of a homogenized sound. The fact your HTR opens into another room further compounds the use of dipoles. Should you ever go to 7.1, them you will be faced with a sonic mess IMHO.

Here's a link to a Paradigm discounter...check out their prices against what your getting:

http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/index.php?manufacturers_id=100&gclid=CJaV0PqB2p8CFRKiagod5jTjGQ&page=1&osCsid=7775a1caa54eab3d338c6037416a9c17


Now a very strong recommendation. Forget the sub 12.....

For a lot less money you can get an SVS or AV123 monster sub that will cost less than a sub12 and perform rings around it. Hell... you might be able to buy 2 for what you'll pay for a Sub 12!

With the exception of the latest Paradigm subs (which cost a small fortune) the sub line from Paradigm is their weakest point.

May I suggest the MFW-15 from ********** on sale now for under $500 plus shipping!

http://www.**********//index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=16&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=130

http://www.**********//index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=9&Itemid=37

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

Any of these will outclass Paradigm subs without breaking a sweat.:D

It seems like this forum doesn't like A V 1 2 3 . com, they blocked out the website!

Hello all .. I am new to this forum. Need advice on Receiver to go with the new Paradigm Studio 100 v5 , CC-690 , Monitor Mini's for sourround 7.1 Setup, Sub DSP-3200. I am Room size 19 x 16 . 50% Music and 50% Movies Usage

My options are as follows I have budget of max 2k.

1)Pioneer VSX-23TXH as Receiver / Emotiva XPA-5
(I have listened to this and I like the diffrent sourround modes this has No GUI info about diffrent modes)
2) Marantz SR 5004 / Emotiva XPA-5 (Have listen to the SR 6004 seems to be same Save some money. Sounds good don't have as many sourround Listening modes as the VSX-23THX)

3) DHC-40.1 as sourround preamp / Emotiva UPA-7 (Didn't get a chance to listen to this )


4) NAD T-175 / NAT 955 ( Local dealer has this for under 2k, But never listened to this)

Could you all pitch in and help me decide .. I really appricate all the diffrent posts out there.



Also please suggest other Receiver / Amp that can go good with studio 100's

why not the UMC-1 processer instead of a receiver for a front end? It would be killer with that XPA-5 AMP and likely run rings around the Pioneer. Have you watched the video from their website???

Likely because he is letting the air out of the Paradigm Balloon - and trying to get you guys to see the light of High End Audio... It certainly doesn't surprise me one bit....

Gino, you still involved in the business...?

Oh and BTW - stop looking at him like he is peeing in your cereal... he has some inside info to help people NOT get ripped off or taken advantage of, especially in times as tight as these....
Too many people think "Hey, if the dealer paid $400 and the MSRP is $1,000, but he's only giving me 10% off, why should I give him $500 profit".

The reason is so few people have any idea how to run a business.
$5k / month for rent in a small store, w/high traffic
$1k / month for electric/phones/heat
$10k / month payroll for 3 FT's plus benefits
$2k / month marketing
$1k / month workers comp insurance / fire insurance / contractor insurance

Then there's inventory to keep in stock, demo products on the floor, theft, security system, liability for returns, office supplies, building maintenance, credit card processing fees.

Then the owner has to have something left over to feed his family and keep a roof over his head.

If I still haven't convinced you that the profit is quite meager, then what you really want are these $49 beauties that come with a steep discount http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qtYDc30jL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

And if you go with a direct seller, like Aperion or AV123, I recommend you haggle with those guys, because markup is around 400% and that's just ripping you off.

Here's a link to a Paradigm discounter...check out their prices against what your getting:

http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/index.php?manufacturers_id=100&gclid=CJaV0PqB2p8CFRKiagod5jTjGQ&page=1&osCsid=7775a1caa54eab3d338c6037416a9c17
While I would never buy from a place where I don't get a warranty, I was intrigued because I'm in the market for Studio 100's. After the $200 per speaker shipping, the price my local dealer quoted me was 10% less.

I do give them points for honesty - "Audiophileliquidator is not an authorized reseller but liquidator of the products listed for sale on this website."

" After customer receives product(s) ordered, all sales are final, no exchange, no return for refund, only applicable warranty for repair if product is not working, refer to our warranty policy. " :D

The type of products I'm writing about can't be found in Radio shack or Walmart.

Master pak, or Palletized delivery wouldn't likely be used For Paradigm, Snell, Focal and any serious speaker manufacturer. On the Other hand many Electronics manufacturers routinely palletize their gear due its smaller size.

So whats your point? mid-low level products can sometimes come delivered on a skid? :DThis is Paradigm Owners Thread, isn't it?

Have you ever looked at a Paradigm dealer price sheet before? Have you placed an order though Paradigm? Have you unloaded a Paradigm shipment (they all come on a sealed pallet, b.t.w.)?

If yes, than you know that a Master Pack (or a Master Carton, to be accurate) is how Paradigm refers to the number of speakers contained in a standard shipping box (cardboard) and the quantity that can be ordered of a product . The Atom Monitors and Studio 10's come in a Master Carton of 2. The outdoor Stylus 270's come in a Master Carton of 4. There is a $10 fee that Paradigm charges the dealer to break a Master Carton, plus additional shipping. So if you (as a dealer) want to order 2 Stylus 270's from Paradigm, or 1 Studio 10, you have to pay the extra $10 plus shipping.

I'm stating all of this because you exaggerated several things in your previous post, but then claim to know certain things as "absolute facts" contained in the same post.

OK, I rarely post bust this is pissing me off.


60 to 70 percent markups?

gino was obviously marking his products up well beyond Paradigm's MSRP.

If I had those kinds of markups, I'd be out of business too. People would think my store was a joke, never come back, and tell all their friends to stay away.

No name house brands have those markups. Not reputable brands.

Gimme a friggin' break

Too many people think "Hey, if the dealer paid $400 and the MSRP is $1,000, but he's only giving me 10% off, why should I give him $500 profit".

The reason is so few people have any idea how to run a business.
$5k / month for rent in a small store, w/high traffic
$1k / month for electric/phones/heat
$10k / month payroll for 3 FT's plus benefits
$2k / month marketing
$1k / month workers comp insurance / fire insurance / contractor insurance

Then there's inventory to keep in stock, demo products on the floor, theft, security system, liability for returns, office supplies, building maintenance, credit card processing fees.

Then the owner has to have something left over to feed his family and keep a roof over his head.

If I still haven't convinced you that the profit is quite meager, then what you really want are these $49 beauties that come with a steep discount http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qtYDc30jL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

And if you go with a direct seller, like Aperion or AV123, I recommend you haggle with those guys, because markup is around 400% and that's just ripping you off.


Spoken like someone who is or was a retailer.

I am in complete agreement with your financial analysis. It covers the gamut of real overhead.

When I offered up the 60-70%, I failed to mention mfr's perks, such cash discounts when paying within 90days, mfrs gifts and incentive trips etc. so when you factor those $$$ into the mix, what the dealer actually pays wholesale it does come up to 60-70% of the published MSRP.

As for Mark Shifter of A V 1 2 3.... Yes he will negotiate a deal, in fact he's got a doozy going on right now...NO, I am not a shill for them!!!

I worked for a Paradigm dealer in 2008 and 2009 and I know that the markups are not 60 to 70%. ginovino may be getting them off the back of a stolen truck and marking them up that much but authorized dealers are not. This a fact as I have seen the price list. Warpdrv you can believe whatever or whoever you want dont let facts get in the way

OK, I rarely post bust this is pissing me off.


60 to 70 percent markups?

gino was obviously marking his products up well beyond Paradigm's MSRP.

If I had those kinds of markups, I'd be out of business too. People would think my store was a joke, never come back, and tell all their friends to stay away.

No name house brands have those markups. Not reputable brands.

Gimme a friggin' break

You misunderstood.... 60-70% represents the possible dealer cost from the mfr! Not the markup....

Spoken like someone who is or was a retailer.No, just have an MBA and I manage a small computer programming department.

I worked for a Paradigm dealer in 2008 and 2009 and I know that the markups are not 60 to 70%. ginovino may be getting them off the back of a stolen truck and marking them up that much but authorized dealers are not. This a fact as I have seen the price list. Warpdrv you can believe whatever or whoever you want dont let facts get in the way

Another case of reading TOO fast... I never said the "markups" were 60-70%, but rather the dealer cost from the mfr. price sheet. cheezz, what did I start?:eek:

Another case of reading TOO fast... I never said the "markups" were 60-70%, but rather the dealer cost from the mfr. price sheet. cheezz, what did I start?:eek:

Sometimes it doesn't pay to tell the truth.

Having worked retail, I'm sorry that I know the cost of most things. :(

OK, I rarely post bust this is pissing me off.


60 to 70 percent markups?

gino was obviously marking his products up well beyond Paradigm's MSRP.

If I had those kinds of markups, I'd be out of business too. People would think my store was a joke, never come back, and tell all their friends to stay away.

No name house brands have those markups. Not reputable brands.

Gimme a friggin' break

Please read response to message # 14398 below

Spoken like someone who is or was a retailer.

I am in complete agreement with your financial analysis. It covers the gamut of real overhead.

When I offered up the 60-70%, I failed to mention mfr's perks, such cash discounts when paying within 90days, mfrs gifts and incentive trips etc. so when you factor those $$$ into the mix, what the dealer actually pays wholesale it does come up to 60-70% of the published MSRP.

As for Mark Shifter of A V 1 2 3.... Yes he will negotiate a deal, in fact he's got a doozy going on right now...NO, I am not a shill for them!!!
...

Please enlighten a 16 year veteran on where oh where all the extra profits were coming from. Quick pay doesn't add that much profit. What perks added all this margin?

Did they buy you a car? Fly you to Fiji for a year? No but to Bermuda and another time to Disney for a week.:D

I don't understand what it is you are asking:confused:

My comments were directed strictly on Paradigm products and only Paradigm products. If I were speaking of Straightwire brand cables and interconnects, cost to us was 50% of the MSRP, and similarly with AQ and Monster cable.

MayI make a suggestion and ask a few questions as well?

Questions first, why are you considering dipoles for the rear surrounds? Do you have incompatible wall angle issues? Have you listened to dipoles? You are aware their radiation pattern will for the most part make localization diffuse and somewhat random. Sort of a homogenized sound. The fact your HTR opens into another room further compounds the use of dipoles. Should you ever go to 7.1, them you will be faced with a sonic mess IMHO.

Here's a link to a Paradigm discounter...check out their prices against what your getting:

http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/index.php?manufacturers_id=100&gclid=CJaV0PqB2p8CFRKiagod5jTjGQ&page=1&osCsid=7775a1caa54eab3d338c6037416a9c17


Now a very strong recommendation. Forget the sub 12.....

For a lot less money you can get an SVS or AV123 monster sub that will cost less than a sub12 and perform rings around it. Hell... you might be able to buy 2 for what you'll pay for a Sub 12!

With the exception of the latest Paradigm subs (which cost a small fortune) the sub line from Paradigm is their weakest point.

May I suggest the MFW-15 from ********** on sale now for under $500 plus shipping!

http://www.**********//index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=16&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=130

http://www.**********//index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=9&Itemid=37

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

Any of these will outclass Paradigm subs without breaking a sweat.:D

It seems like this forum doesn't like A V 1 2 3 . com, they blocked out the website!

Thanks for the quick reply.

I should have mentioned, I'm in Canada, ID stuff is alot more hassle, the cost savings, small.

I have checked out SVS's canadian distributer:

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/pb13ultra-powered-box-sub-ultra13-woofer-p-4.html

Check out that price + $150 for shipping....aack.

RE: dipoles......I just thought they be a good idea for side surrounds, planning to uprade to 7.1 someday ( i'm pre-wireing for 7.1)
It appears that I have that line of thinking ass backwards.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest over what I know to be the absolute facts. Nor do I choose to explain in detail my 28 years as a Audio retailer on Long Island, New York.

Believe what you choose to believe("I know what I know, don't confuse me with the facts) and let the readers decide what they want to gleen from the postings.:rolleyes:

Edit:

I think that confused some (inlcuding myself, because I read too fast :o) is that you mentioned markup, and most understood as actual margin. You are correct that margin is around 40-50% give or take on most speaker manufacturers (which isn't that much when you consider the cost of inventory and overhead like many have mentioned, not to mention the rather limited amount of actual volume that is sold these days).

You are WAY off though on cables. That, or you were getting the short end of the stick somewhere.

P.S. I wouldn't get too liberal with the recommendations. AV123 isn't exactly selling what many would consider a reliable subwoofer.

Edit:

P.S. I wouldn't get too liberal with the recommendations. AV123 isn't exactly selling what many would consider a reliable subwoofer.

I understand where your coming from on this issue... and you are right. My sources tell me things are headed in the right direction with regard to the "iffy" bash amps they were using for their subs.

They were recently selected by The Absolute Sound for an Editors Choice awards for their X-static model... Harry Pearson is quite a stickler.. so things must be improving up there in Longmont, CO.:D

I still like their subs for the price....great value, good looks.

My TV area is pretty small, and I am doing everything I possibly can to make room for a new pair of SE3 to go with my new Samsung 55" LED TV.

I was hoping to fit the speakers just under the bottom lip of the TV. When I measured the height, it was just shy of 31". The SE3s are 34" tall. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

What would be the effect of putting the speakers behind the TV?

Thanks,
Kevin

Question on my Ultracube 12 placement - So I have a fairly open room and had the sub placed to the left about 2 ft from the wall and pretty much open to the room. When I just walked around I could here sweet spots that sounded better. So I was'nt thrilled but it looked good there, etc.

So yesterday against what most would say would be the optimal position I placed it into the corner about 1 ft out from back and side wall. So now:
1. Sub seems much more bass responsive
2. Digs deeper feels like it goes lower
3. I am not noticing any boominess, it seems very tight
4. seems to blend better now with my atoms, lrc speakers

Am I going nuts? Could the corner be the better placement? Seems like corner placement is not where most would recomend. But man does it sound so much better.

Here is a question??? I have my sub basically sightly over 1/4 of the way up. How are you guys gettting that in your chest bass without overly cranking up the sub woofer? I mean I can feel it if I was to turn it up, plenty of reserve power. Do you guys turn it up for movies?

Thanks, Mike from NJ

Big snow storm heading my way so its time to listen to my cd collection and watch some movies! Thank you and have a great day...

Last Question - My dad has Monitor 7, cc190, adp 190 in a 15 x 15 room with 9ft ceilings. I was going to tell him to get the Ultracube 10, I have the 12 as he really just like listening to music. I can get him the sub new for $680.00 What would you buy? He is retired and $680 is a lot for him. He enjoys music 70%, 25% tv, 5% movies.
What sub should he get? He really likes to listen before he buys but I am thinking that he can do better for the money. I bought my Ultracube 12 for $880.00 and the gf liked it because of its size and looks. My dad doesnt mind a larger sub.
Please help me so I can get my dad into the right sub at the best price! Michael

Sorry for the late reply, wasn't able to check in yesterday.

I guess that my post was ambiguous, and I had no real, or clear, issue.

To answer your question they are about 18" off the wall, 6' to the left wall and 9' to the right.

I'm using a new pioneer elite vsx-23txh avr for its pre-amp outputs, and I have that feeding into a 200wpc outlaw amp, plenty enough power, and clean sounding untill stupid loud if I desired.
I think, the more I look at it, that I'm mostly satisfied, and just have to understand that not all cd recordings are made equal, and I can't lay fault at the feet of the speakers.
Some cd's have a very robust sounding bass,but others are somewhat anemic, and I may have been trying to "make it" have the bass level I want.
I seem to be at a place, settings-wise, where things a good for me, and for being a bit picky over some bass responce,on only some cd's, this is really a knock-your-socks-off difference compared to what I had.

I'm going with small and back to 80hz crossover. loudness on. +5 out of 6 on the bass. sub set up to 0db,the highest setting.
I notched up the lower frequencies on my equalizer.
For cds I'm playing them in front speakers surround wide mode.

I'm meaning to learn up on room treatments, but that is one area I may not be able to work on due to the waf.
Time to hit submit and catch up on the rest of the thread, thanks for your post.

Don


Hi there I too have a set of 100s and I love then. Good bass with no sub but awesome with one for the type of music I like. At the start I too had a problem with a lack of bass. Can I ask how far from the back and side walls do you have them? What do you power them with AVR or dedicated amp, how many watts per chann. I have mine set to full range or larger with no probs and sound great even at loud levels. I think with the proper placement and good clean power you will find that they are a great speaker. I power mine with a mca 20 that has about 200w/chan at 8ohns and over double @ 2ohms. Some reviews say that the 100s can dip to 3 ohms or so.

why not the UMC-1 processer instead of a receiver for a front end? It would be killer with that XPA-5 AMP and likely run rings around the Pioneer. Have you watched the video from their website???

Thank you . Also added YAMAHA RX-3900BL .. I am looking into UMC-1

I have a Yamaha 3800 powering my 3 sets of 100s v2 and my 690 v4. The 3800 only puts out 140 watts so Im thinking about getting the emotiva xpa-5 to power my front 100s and my center. And Ill run the other 4 channels off my receiver. Anyone have any idea as to whether I'll notice a big difference?

Am I going nuts? Could the corner be the better placement? Seems like corner placement is not where most would recomend. But man does it sound so much better.

I say if it sounds better to you, leave it there.

I can get him the sub new for $680.00 What would you buy? He is retired and $680 is a lot for him. He enjoys music 70%, 25% tv, 5% movies.
What sub should he get? He really likes to listen before he buys...

A lot of ID brands have something like an in home trial period or 30 day guarantee in the price range you're looking at. You might check into some like HSU Research (http://www.hsuresearch.com/), SVS (http://www.svsound.com/), Outlaw Audio (http://www.outlawaudio.com/), among others that will probably get mentioned.

P.S. I wouldn't get too liberal with the recommendations. AV123 isn't exactly selling what many would consider a reliable subwoofer.

I own TWO MFW-15's by AV123 and I can say that statement is probably not a popular one with AV123 Sub owners - though we all know about opinions as well (for those that don't let me enlighten you "Opinions are like ---holes, everyone has them and they all stink") and in my opinion - his opinion of my subwoofers stinks! :eek: and I think I got a great "bang" for my buck. Sure I could have spent $2900 on a single Paradigm sub, or $1100 on dual 15" subs, I went the less expensive route and feel I got one hell of a deal.

ginovino I will agree with your suggestion concerning the sub's for what its worth............

My Studio 20's arrived today!
This is the cherry finish, they are beautiful in person! Great fit and Finish and solid construction. Not the best pics in the world, but u get the point! lol
My NAD C-272 should be here monday and Im set! :D
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/mattldm/IMG_4337.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/mattldm/IMG_4339.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/mattldm/IMG_4341.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/mattldm/IMG_4342.jpg

What would be the effect of putting the speakers behind the TV?


From the deafening response, can I infur that this isn't such a great idea?

I see 2 other options:

1) Create a small pedestal to raise the height of the TV about 4 inches. The TV starts to be pretty high up the wall, though.

2) Go with the SE1s instead. Given the same budget, is it possible to pair a sub with the SE1s to achieve the results of the SE3s?

Kevin

Question on my Ultracube 12 placement - So I have a fairly open room and had the sub placed to the left about 2 ft from the wall and pretty much open to the room. When I just walked around I could here sweet spots that sounded better. So I was'nt thrilled but it looked good there, etc.

So yesterday against what most would say would be the optimal position I placed it into the corner about 1 ft out from back and side wall. So now:
1. Sub seems much more bass responsive
2. Digs deeper feels like it goes lower
3. I am not noticing any boominess, it seems very tight
4. seems to blend better now with my atoms, lrc speakers

Am I going nuts? Could the corner be the better placement? Seems like corner placement is not where most would recomend. But man does it sound so much better.

Here is a question??? I have my sub basically sightly over 1/4 of the way up. How are you guys gettting that in your chest bass without overly cranking up the sub woofer? I mean I can feel it if I was to turn it up, plenty of reserve power. Do you guys turn it up for movies?

Thanks, Mike from NJ



I don't know where corner loading a sub was discussed as bad, it's not something you want to do with mains, but a sub is fine if that's the location that gets you the best bass response. Corner's will enhance the bass so it's not surprising it seems more powerful. You said bass response is uneven in the room and that's normal for most rooms and is why room EQ is so beneficial if you have multiple listening positions. The key is that you want the bass to sound best at the prime listening position first and work the EQ from there.

The trick to locating a sub if anyone is so inclined is to put it at the listening position and then crawl around the room to find where the bass sounds the best. That should be where you place the sub. In your case it could very well be the corner it's in!

Thanks for the quick reply.

I should have mentioned, I'm in Canada, ID stuff is alot more hassle, the cost savings, small.

I have checked out SVS's canadian distributer:

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/pb13ultra-powered-box-sub-ultra13-woofer-p-4.html

Check out that price + $150 for shipping....aack.

RE: dipoles......I just thought they be a good idea for side surrounds, planning to uprade to 7.1 someday ( i'm pre-wireing for 7.1)
It appears that I have that line of thinking ass backwards.

I wouldn't rule out the Sub 12 just yet... Maybe some of the lower end digm's, but not the Sub 12. I'm not really sure what ginovino is rambling on about, but clearly he hasn't heard a Sub 12. At MSRP, I admit it may not represent the most "bang for your buck" for US residents, but I think it's one of the better options for Canadian buyers. Plus, good discounts are certainly within reach as well. Another fellow avs'er(Mark S) was able to compare a Sub 12 to an SVS PC12 Plus, having had both in his own room, and he said the Sub 12 easily outperformed the PC12 Plus. I suggest you go try a Sub 12 search over in the sub forum. I don't think you'll find a negative Sub 12 comment in the whole forum.

From Paradigm's line, I would think that anything from the Sub 12 on up would be worth a look.

I wouldn't rule out the Sub 12 just yet... Maybe some of the lower end digm's, but not the Sub 12. I'm not really sure what ginovino is rambling on about, but clearly he hasn't heard a Sub 12. At MSRP, I admit it may not represent the most "bang for your buck" for US residents, but I think it's one of the better options for Canadian buyers. Plus, good discounts are certainly within reach as well. Another fellow avs'er(Mark S) was able to compare a Sub 12 to an SVS PC12 Plus, having had both in his own room, and he said the Sub 12 easily outperformed the PC12 Plus. I suggest you go try a Sub 12 search over in the sub forum. I don't think you'll find a negative Sub 12 comment in the whole forum.

From Paradigm's line, I would think that anything from the Sub 12 on up would be worth a look.

Thanks BRAC.... I was all over SVS early in my research, now leaning towards the sealed design of the sub 12.
Any thougts on the adp's for side surround ?
High WAF factor with the ADP's

I can't provide any feedback on the ADP's, as I've had no experience with them. Although I must admit, I usually prefer the sound of direct radiating speakers for surround use.

My Studio 20's arrived today!
This is the cherry finish, they are beautiful in person! Great fit and Finish and solid construction. Not the best pics in the world, but u get the point! lol
My NAD C-272 should be here monday and Im set! :D
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/mattldm/IMG_4337.jpg
nice pics whats up with the small speaker wire?

Just bought some 590s to go with my Studio 100s, CC590 (690 on the way).
I am a happy camper. :D Some Blu Ray concerts have sound roll from front to surrounds. There is no change in sound when this happens.

nice pics whats up with the small speaker wire?

mattldm,

The wire connected to the 20 is very thin gauge. Hope your surrounds aren't too far away or you don't use the same gauge wire. I prefer 12 gauge and you can usually get that fairly cheap at monoprice.

The new 20's are a beautiful looking speaker. I found the v4's to be too laid back for me. I would imagine the v5 would be similar in this respect?

I can't provide any feedback on the ADP's, as I've had no experience with them. Although I must admit, I usually prefer the sound of direct radiating speakers for surround use.

I have ADPs and I think they sound great. Of course, I have never used direct radiating speakers so I have no comparison.

I have no problem locating the sound to my left and right.

I have ADPs and I think they sound great. Of course, I have never used direct radiating speakers so I have no comparison.

I have no problem locating the sound to my left and right.

Yes, I've heard great things about the ADP's.

My basis for comparison was my previous 7.1 theater with Energy bipoles in the front, dipoles for side surrounds and Mirage omnipoles for rear surrounds. That setup threw a nice big sound, but lacked the precision and accuracy of my current 5.1 Signature setup. Having said that, the Sig's are much more expensive speakers. If I ever decide to go 7.1/9.1 again, I'll definately give the ADP's a listen.

I have an ultracube 12 and just recently noticed it sounding funny. It almost seems the cabinet is loose or something. It sounds like it's vibrating, and then if I push down on the top of the cabinet, it stops. Any ideas? I bought this two years ago so what's the waranty on this product? Also, I bought it from an authorized dealer about 90 minutes away, but now there is a new authorized dealer in my city...do I have to take it back to where I originally bought it?

nice pics whats up with the small speaker wire?

lol, its what was hooked up to my Athena WS-60's! I have new wires on the way

mattldm,

The wire connected to the 20 is very thin gauge. Hope your surrounds aren't too far away or you don't use the same gauge wire. I prefer 12 gauge and you can usually get that fairly cheap at monoprice.

The new 20's are a beautiful looking speaker. I found the v4's to be too laid back for me. I would imagine the v5 would be similar in this respect?

thats actually 14ga wire, but its going. I just don't have the new wires yet, they are on the way.

Thanks BRAC.... I was all over SVS early in my research, now leaning towards the sealed design of the sub 12.
Any thougts on the adp's for side surround ?
High WAF factor with the ADP's

I have the ADP 590v4 at the side, Studio 20v4 in the rear, Studio 100v5, Studio 690v5 and 2 sub 12's and they sound awesome. Don't let the size fool you, if you like to listen at very high levels they will keep up with everything else.

I actually just got my second sub 12 today and have been watching movies all day long. The dual setup is crazy, now if I would only get the theater room finished downstairs I'd be laughing.

I posted this under the subwoofer section...but thought I may get more help from people following the paradigm thread, so here goes....

I have a 2000 cubic foot room and am looking for a sub with a small footprint to pair with Paradigm Studio 60v5's, a cc-490v5, Studio 10v5's in a 5.1 system. This would be for about 50% HT and 50% stereo music.
I'm looking at the Paradigm Ultracube 12, the Paradigm Seismic 10, or the SVS SB12+. The only one of these I can audition is the Ultracube so I'd appreciate any feedback.

Also may be looking at the new seismic 110...what are everyones thoughts on this new offering from Paradigm and does anyone know what these are selling for in Canadian $$$ ??

Thanks!

The trick to locating a sub if anyone is so inclined is to put it at the listening position and then crawl around the room to find where the bass sounds the best. That should be where you place the sub. In your case it could very well be the corner it's in!


This is method is used for those that don't want to take the time using measuring equipment - and those that don't have the equipment to do so, which can become somewhat expensive and time consuming to be sure, but a great learning experience...

As stated, by rnrgagne - truly your best way to go is to get an EQ to smooth out the response at the seating location, and above that adding a second sub to the mix will also help a good deal.

A good single sub eq solution would be a Velodyne SMS-1, but I wouldn't suggest that unit for more then 1 sub, where one would/should need to eq/phase/distance them individually.

Hey guy just wondering about the CC-290 center speaker I just got....when dialogue is coming out of the center the "s" ' s that people say really hiss out of the center and is actually annoying so do you guys notice this as well or what????? thx

Hey guy just wondering about the CC-290 center speaker I just got....when dialogue is coming out of the center the "s" ' s that people say really hiss out of the center and is actually annoying so do you guys notice this as well or what????? thx

I have the v5 cc-290, and never noticed any exaggerated "S's" Could be your RX settings. Did you re-run audyssey?

I have the ADP 590v4 at the side, Studio 20v4 in the rear, Studio 100v5, Studio 690v5 and 2 sub 12's and they sound awesome. Don't let the size fool you, if you like to listen at very high levels they will keep up with everything else.

I actually just got my second sub 12 today and have been watching movies all day long. The dual setup is crazy, now if I would only get the theater room finished downstairs I'd be laughing.

Congrats on the dual Sub 12's.:D My duals are awesome in my "very small" theater. How big is your room? Did you use the PBK? I'd like to hear some more in depth impressions when you get some time, plus some pics.;)

Maybe post over in the Sub 12 & Sub 15 thread, as I know your impressions will surely help many...

I have the v5 cc-290, and never noticed any exaggerated "S's" Could be your RX settings. Did you re-run audyssey?

Yeah I ran Audyssey but had to increase the db for the center since it was too low! whats this about RX settings?? can I turn that on or off? what is it for? thx for the info

Yeah I ran Audyssey but had to increase the db for the center since it was too low! whats this about RX settings?? can I turn that on or off? what is it for? thx for the info


Sorry I fly model planes, and receivers are often called RX. So I meant Receiver settings. Maybe the treble on the center is set too high?

Yeah I ran Audyssey but had to increase the db for the center since it was too low! whats this about RX settings?? can I turn that on or off? what is it for? thx for the info

It doesn't sound like you ran Audyssey correctly, both the fact that the cc's volume is too low and the "S's" are so prominent seems to indicate such. Check out giomania's guide on on the first post in the Audyssey thread.

The "S's" that you're talking about is called sibilance. It's unfortunate, but as we age we become more susceptible to hearing it or letting it bother us..even if Audyssey is done correctly. Some recordings are more noticeable than others because of how it was recorded or engineered (mixed), with the latter being the most common cause.

This is method is used for those that don't want to take the time using measuring equipment - and those that don't have the equipment to do so, which can become somewhat expensive and time consuming to be sure, but a great learning experience...

As stated, by rnrgagne - truly your best way to go is to get an EQ to smooth out the response at the seating location, and above that adding a second sub to the mix will also help a good deal.

A good single sub eq solution would be a Velodyne SMS-1, but I wouldn't suggest that unit for more then 1 sub, where one would/should need to eq/phase/distance them individually.
I believe all the Paradigm Subs can now use the Perfect Bass Kit (PBK). IMO, the $300 for that kit pays for itself quite quickly. Think about how many times you move furniture around. Sure its fun the first time to take measurements at ten different locations and at 20 different frequency's, but it gets old real fast. The PBK is fast, easy, relatively cheap and you can use it over and over whenever anything in your room changes.

I believe all the Paradigm Subs can now use the Perfect Bass Kit (PBK). IMO, the $300 for that kit pays for itself quite quickly. Think about how many times you move furniture around. Sure its fun the first time to take measurements at ten different locations and at 20 different frequency's, but it gets old real fast. The PBK is fast, easy, relatively cheap and you can use it over and over whenever anything in your room changes.

I agree the PBK is good - but the only problem is that from what I read, its only good for 1 sub, you can't really use it for multiples... which is a drawback for some people. I would highly suggest it for a single sub scenario - but if your looking to possibly add more down the line... there are other products for EQ'ing.

I have ARC with my D2v and the PBK is a scaled down version of that, and I can tell you first hand - ARC doesn't handle multiple subs all that well... it can only do so much. I have 4 sealed subs scattered around my room and I use the Behringer DCX-2496 to work each sub channel individually, Phase, Polarity, Delay/Distance, and EQ for each to have them all come together perfectly as one, and then have ARC run after the fact. The result is far better bass then I have ever experienced.

I could have never achieved that with a single EQ. I was using the SMS-1 before and all the smearing and colliding of bass was killing my output and depth.

I agree the PBK is good - but the only problem is that from what I read, its only good for 1 sub, you can't really use it for multiples... which is a drawback for some people. I would highly suggest it for a single sub scenario - but if your looking to possibly add more down the line... there are other products for EQ'ing.

i was told its good for up to 4 subwoofers

i was told its good for up to 4 subwoofers

Well that may be, They would all have to be linked together somehow to distribute the combined corrected signal. And on top of that one will still have to do some extensive setup with each sub regarding phase and distance and gain, which can be tricky and to do that properly you realy need to do some sort of measuring with something like REW...

Plus the fact one should be measuring after the fact to confirm that EQ is being performed properly with final results measured with REW.

As I stated - its no different then ARC and it didn't handle my stuff alone... not sure how it would be any different...

I just made an individual post here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18093603#post18093603

It has to do with a weird buzz I get now out of my SC-27 and Paradigm Studio 100's and am looking for any advice anyone can give. It was a rather long post so I felt it best to post it by itself - but I wanted other Paradigm Studio 100 owners to let me know their thoughts.


Thanks in advance.

Who here listens to their Paradigms with their grilles off? From what I've seen online, the grille on typically creates some peaks and valleys in the frequency response (on the other hand, a slighted tipped but more linear treble if it is removed), yet Paradigm says they should be played with the grilles on? Also stereophile detected some resonance from the grilles at the lower frequencies.

What are peoples opinions with the grilles on/off?

What are peoples opinions with the grilles on/off?

Studio 100/60's IMO Grills Off: Sexy as hell, impressive and dominating presence, sounds great
Studio 100/60's IMO Grills On: Impressive, Beautiful, Sounds good either way

Does anyone have any advice regarding using a Paradigm PW-2200 v2 amplifier with a SVS 16-46 CS passive subwoofer?
The powered version of this subwoofer comes with a 525watt RMS bash amp and the PW2200 amp is a 500watt RMS classD amp.
http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/subwoofer_only-specification-7-4-5-11.paradigm

Any input or advice on how this would be hooked up? I'm not sure how the setup would usually work.

Is it safe to assume the PW2200 is 4ohms like the SVS 16-46 is?

Also, if you've ever heard an SVS, how would it compare to my current PS1000 v3/v4?

Thanks!

any comments on the Sig S4 V2 being paired with the CC-690?????

I agree the PBK is good - but the only problem is that from what I read, its only good for 1 sub, you can't really use it for multiples... which is a drawback for some people. I would highly suggest it for a single sub scenario - but if your looking to possibly add more down the line... there are other products for EQ'ing.

I have ARC with my D2v and the PBK is a scaled down version of that, and I can tell you first hand - ARC doesn't handle multiple subs all that well... it can only do so much. I have 4 sealed subs scattered around my room and I use the Behringer DCX-2496 to work each sub channel individually, Phase, Polarity, Delay/Distance, and EQ for each to have them all come together perfectly as one, and then have ARC run after the fact. The result is far better bass then I have ever experienced.

I could have never achieved that with a single EQ. I was using the SMS-1 before and all the smearing and colliding of bass was killing my output and depth.

I PBK'd each of my two subs seperately, then run MultEQ XT to tie it all together. The results are fantastic! I don't know if it is the best solution out there, but it certainly appeals to my senses.:D

I could be wrong, but I really don't see that much difference in your method versus mine, except that your method is a little less automated. More hands on, so to speak...

any comments on the Sig S4 V2 being paired with the CC-690?????


Others have done it in here and were happy with the results. It's not optimal and may not timbre match perfectly. It was discussed within the past couple of months with some pictures posted.

Studio 100/60's IMO Grills Off: Sexy as hell, impressive and dominating presence, sounds great
Studio 100/60's IMO Grills On: Impressive, Beautiful, Sounds good either way

I've always been under the assumption that grilles are not acoustically transparent, and in truth, the Paradigm grills are a crisscrossing mesh of jagged plastic. Asside from the fact that the grill is curved, it looks like an acoustic nightmare.

It's really curious that Paradigm's literature state that the speakers were meant to be played with the grilles on.

I've always been under the assumption that grilles are not acoustically transparent, and in truth, the Paradigm grills are a crisscrossing mesh of jagged plastic. Asside from the fact that the grill is curved, it looks like an acoustic nightmare.

It's really curious that Paradigm's literature state that the speakers were meant to be played with the grilles on.

Apparently the grills are designed to disperse the sound or something.

I've always been under the assumption that grilles are not acoustically transparent, and in truth, the Paradigm grills are a crisscrossing mesh of jagged plastic. Asside from the fact that the grill is curved, it looks like an acoustic nightmare.

It's really curious that Paradigm's literature state that the speakers were meant to be played with the grilles on.from the faq

Paradigm® and Paradigm® Reference speakers are designed with low-diffraction grills that minimize interference from enclosure edges. These grills also incorporate a Controlled Waveguide™ to ensure superior wide-dispersion uniformity. As such, they are meant to be played with grills on.

Previous Monitor 7 owner going for a new set of Paradigm.

Any benefits to Monitor 7 or 9 and cc-290 vs. the SE-3 and SE Center assuming a sub is used? Assume cost is not a factor b/w these three.

Previous Monitor 7 owner going for a new set of Paradigm.

Any benefits to Monitor 7 or 9 and cc-290 vs. the SE-3 and SE Center assuming a sub is used? Assume cost is not a factor b/w these three.you get the better drivers with the SE-3

you get the better drivers with the SE-3
I second that.

you get the better drivers with the SE-3

That was my thought process. Havent heard the SE series yet.

Previous Monitor 7 owner going for a new set of Paradigm.

Any benefits to Monitor 7 or 9 and cc-290 vs. the SE-3 and SE Center assuming a sub is used? Assume cost is not a factor b/w these three.

Apparently using Studio parts in a box that is not Studio...
The review I read speaks highly of the sound of them...

from the faq

Paradigm® and Paradigm® Reference speakers are designed with low-diffraction grills that minimize interference from enclosure edges. These grills also incorporate a Controlled Waveguide™ to ensure superior wide-dispersion uniformity. As such, they are meant to be played with grills on.

It seems to me you have to give up clarity to avoid baffle diffraction, because there's no way putting on a grille thats about 3 times thicker than a typical one is acoustically transparent. Also most of the reviewers have noted it measures poorly with the grilles on.

The main thing here is Paradigm has changed its drivers dramatically over the years (from poly to aluminum midbass, aluminum to beryllium tweeter) so I don't know if their own literature is even relevant anymore. The real issue here is Paradigm has never given a legitimate reason for using the grilles except to call them anti-defraction grilles. The purpose of anti-diffraction is to limit the number of obstacles that a driver's direct radiating sound may hit (on the baffle itself) before it reaches your ears, otherwise it causes a "sonar" effect. Unfortunately, most companies state even the thinnest grilles *cause* diffraction since it's an obstacle to the driver's primary sound wave.

I've emailed Paradigm a few times but they've never responded...nothing on the net even gives a clue about this. Maybe the memo has changed and Paradigm forgot to update their literature...because both S&V and Soundstage reviewed without the grilles. And when Stereophile measured the original S2 the treble had peaks and valleys in the treble region that were not present with the grilles off. I wonder what is Paradigm's take on the pros and cons of the grilles. I mean, why does Paradigm always play their speakers with their grilles off at shows like CES? Seems like a contradiction to me...

edit: stereophile's measurements showed peaks with the grilles ON, not off. They showed a flatter response with the farfield one (off) than the one with the complex sum (on).

It seems to me you are basically giving up clarity to avoid baffle diffraction, because there's no way putting on a grille thats about 3 times thicker than a typical one is acoustically transparent. Also most of the reviewers have noted it measures poorly with the grilles on.

The main thing here is Paradigm has changed its drivers dramatically over the years (from poly to aluminum midbass, aluminum to beryllium tweeter) so I don't know if their own literature is even relevant anymore. The real issue here is Paradigm has never given a legitimate reason for using the grilles except to call them anti-defraction grilles. The purpose of anti-diffraction is to limit the number of obstacles that a driver's direct radiating sound may hit (on the baffle itself) before it reaches your ears, otherwise it causes a "sonar" effect. Unfortunately, most companies state even the thinnest grilles *cause* diffraction since it's an obstacle to the driver's primary sound wave.

I've emailed Paradigm a few times but they've never responded...nothing on the net even gives a clue about this. Maybe the memo has changed and Paradigm forgot to update their literature...because both S&V and Soundstage reviewed without the grilles. And when Stereophile measured the original S2 the treble had peaks and valleys in the treble region that were not present with the grilles on. I wonder what is Paradigm's take on the pros and cons of the grilles. I mean, why does Paradigm always play their speakers with their grilles off at shows like CES? Seems like a contradiction to me...i agree, at a minium the tweeter should be exposed like the B&W's

Who here listens to their Paradigms with their grilles off? From what I've seen online, the grille on typically creates some peaks and valleys in the frequency response (on the other hand, a slighted tipped but more linear treble if it is removed), yet Paradigm says they should be played with the grilles on? Also stereophile detected some resonance from the grilles at the lower frequencies.

What are peoples opinions with the grilles on/off?

I enjoy listening to mine whether the grills are on or off. I can't tell a major difference either way, but I'm not as serious about squeezing every Hz out of them as some folks are...and my high frequency hearing loss may contribute too. :( I leave the grills on, but that's primarily because my 2 yr old doesn't know they come off...yet. I am certain that I don't want the drivers colored purple or green. Although, I did read somewhere that if you color your CD's green they sound better. Does that work for speakers too? :D ;)

From what I understand, Paradigm does a ton of R&D work, in their own facility and at the National Research Council facility, in fact I would guess more than any other speaker manufacturer.
If they tell me to leave the grills on I'll do just that, there's no logical reason for them to recommend something that would harm the sound.
I've tried both and couldn't tell the difference - with any of the Paradigms I've had.

why do i feel as if i would be wasting money buying the Sig S4s for my room at present??? the room is 15'x10' and i will be pairing them with the CC-690, which i already asked if this would be a good pairing....... should i just go the Studio 20 route???? this is because floorstanders are definitely out of the question..... sorry for asking but i know there are many educated responses i can get to this question in here.

why do i feel as if i would be wasting money buying the Sig S4s for my room at present??? the room is 15'x10' and i will be pairing them with the CC-690, which i already asked if this would be a good pairing....... should i just go the Studio 20 route???? this is because floorstanders are definitely out of the question..... sorry for asking but i know there are many educated responses i can get to this question in here.

Don't think the room size has much to do with the SQ advantage of the S4s over the Studio 20's. Better tweeter, woofers, and cross over design. Is the difference going to be 3 times the price noticeable? That's up to you. I'm happy with my S2's in my 13x17x9 room, but I'm sure would have been as happy or happier with S4s (just happened to find the S2's on sale and more palatable price wise).

why do i feel as if i would be wasting money buying the Sig S4s for my room at present??? the room is 15'x10' and i will be pairing them with the CC-690, which i already asked if this would be a good pairing....... should i just go the Studio 20 route???? this is because floorstanders are definitely out of the question..... sorry for asking but i know there are many educated responses i can get to this question in here.

Why would you go with the Studio 20's over the S4's, besides price? If you're thinking of going the Studio route, I'd seriously consider the 60's or the 100's. The 60's will be much less than the S4's, while the 100's will be closer in price... both are a lot more speaker than the 20's.

^^^ floorstanders are not an option....the room is TINY!!!!!

why do i feel as if i would be wasting money buying the Sig S4s for my room at present??? the room is 15'x10' and i will be pairing them with the CC-690, which i already asked if this would be a good pairing....... should i just go the Studio 20 route???? this is because floorstanders are definitely out of the question..... sorry for asking but i know there are many educated responses i can get to this question in here.

As others have suggested the S4's are in a different league from the 20's. To my ears, the top end is superior and they image better with a bigger soundstage. They've also got better mid-bass pitch & definition.
Why not go with the C3 instead of the 690 for that size room and stay timber matched.
I'm using a C3 with my S8's in a 13 x 24 room with no issue whatsoever.

does anyone out there have one of these? any good? pair it with ams 250 fronts????

From what I understand, Paradigm does a ton of R&D work, in their own facility and at the National Research Council facility, in fact I would guess more than any other speaker manufacturer.
If they tell me to leave the grills on I'll do just that, there's no logical reason for them to recommend something that would harm the sound.
I've tried both and couldn't tell the difference - with any of the Paradigms I've had.

Hmm, well, Axiom was part of the NRC group along with Energy, and (allegedly) also does a ton of research...apparently they thought it was a good idea to let aluminum midrange drivers to roll off naturally with no filter, resulting in a massive amount of ringing in the midrange that even an amateur DIY guy knows is a complete no-no. So that definitely shows not all those NRC guys have their nuts in the right place.

Why would you go with the Studio 20's over the S4's, besides price? If you're thinking of going the Studio route, I'd seriously consider the 60's or the 100's. The 60's will be much less than the S4's, while the 100's will be closer in price... both are a lot more speaker than the 20's.As a Studio 20 owner who is thinking of moving the the 100's, I can say both yes and no to this statement.

The 20's are as sweet in the midrange and treble as both the 60's and the 100's. The real difference is low end extension, and as they say in the political world, gravitas! In a small room, with a quality sub, the 20's are phenomenal speakers. I have a medium sized room and the 20's sometimes seem strained during loud music passages and movies. So I'm sorry if I missed it, but how big is your room?

does anyone out there have one of these? any good? pair it with ams 250 fronts????For use as a center channel?

If so, I would do a third AMS-250, or an AMS-300, long before the AMS-LCR. Your dealer can order a single from Paradigm for a nominal extra fee.

For space issues the lcr would fit, is it that bad? I guess I could use a regular center-putting it on the component cabinet

Hmm, well, Axiom was part of the NRC group along with Energy, and (allegedly) also does a ton of research...apparently they thought it was a good idea to let aluminum midrange drivers to roll off naturally with no filter, resulting in a massive amount of ringing in the midrange that even an amateur DIY guy knows is a complete no-no. So that definitely shows not all those NRC guys have their nuts in the right place.

You have to temper that with cost as well, most of the R&D goes into the higher end models and then trickles down based on practical costing initiatives.
Price point might dictate the quality & complexity of crossovers more so than R&D work. If you wanted to find something wrong with any product, you can if you look hard enough.
Almost all of the Canadian speaker manufacturers benefit from the NRC, it's tied to a tax incentive program that they all take part in to differing degrees. It's an easy thing for them to "brag" about, but you're right it doesn't always manifest itself in practical application.
There used to be further incentives to manufacture in Canada as well but I think that may have fallen by the wayside since I know that PSB for one has taken to manufacturing their speakers in China.

Still none of the above, or what you said, convinces me that Paradigm recommends leaving the grills on erroneously.

Hello everyone I presently have Studio 100 v5's & a 690 center. I am thinking of going with Sig 2's and a C3 center. Just wanted to get your opinions on what I might gain or miss. The larger speakers are not in my budget.

My room is 16x22 & it is dedicated. My associated audio components are a Velodyne DD15, Pioneer Elite VSX94 as a processor & a Sherbourne 200x7 amp. Rears are ADP590's in 7 channel configuration.


Thanks for any input.

Mike, this is just my opinion (I am sure others might have a different take). where the Sigs shine compared with the Studio line is with 2 channel music and even there the diferrence are not evident to all. In home theater the difference between speakers is much harder to pick up (for my ears) assuming the speakers are well designed to start with (you are comparing speakers in similar price ranges). So if you are into serious music listening then the upgrade might well be worth it. If it is mostly an HT set-up, I am not sure you would see a big difference between the two lines.

Which one to go with, please help with advice.
Current - Def Tech. PF18 - Selling
possible - Paradigm ps1000
possible - SVS PB12
possible - Velodyne spl1000

ALL are in a price range of +/- $125

Any suggestions on which Sub to go with. Mostly useing for movies, room is 20X28. Fronts are powered Def techs, center is also powered. Looking for something no tto boomy, tight and accurate with somewhat of a small footprint.

Thanks for anyones assistance.

I bought a cc-690, for details on purchase you can PM me.

Nice, thanks. Did you buy them at a local dealer?

Did you also get a CC-690 center or do you know what is a good price for this speaker?

Hello everyone I presently have Studio 100 v5's & a 690 center. I am thinking of going with Sig 2's and a C3 center. Just wanted to get your opinions on what I might gain or miss. The larger speakers are not in my budget.

My room is 16x22 & it is dedicated. My associated audio components are a Velodyne DD15, Pioneer Elite VSX94 as a processor & a Sherbourne 200x7 amp. Rears are ADP590's in 7 channel configuration.


Thanks for any input.

You need to go and listen to decide what's important to your ears.

The sigs are a substantial upgrade to the studios, IMHO, but you might need the quality pre-pro to really get all the sound out of them.

Also, I'm not sure the S2s will be enough for your room, you'd really need the S6s, especially if you currently use 100s.

Ok I have :] adp 590 v.5 on the way.
My question is where do I get the wall mounts for the ADP's?
Thanks for the help guys!

Currently running:
studio 100 v.5
CC 690 v.4
ADP 590 v5
Pioneer vsx 94txh (I know seperates are next)
ok on a side note what seperates for this system would you recomend.
My system is 95% home theatre and 5% music... Budget is $5k for both pre w processor and amp
The more base the better!

ok on a side note what seperates for this system would you recomend.
My system is 95% home theatre and 5% music... Budget is $5k for both pre w processor and amp
The more base the better!Anthem 50v & emotiva amps

For space issues the lcr would fit, is it that bad? I guess I could use a regular center-putting it on the component cabinetI've never heard the AMS-LCR, but the FR isn't impressive (105Hz - 22kHz), and the dimensions are too restrictive to be practical to be used as a center (too wide to fit between normal stud spacing if used horizontially, tweeter too low if installed below a tv vertically). I have used the AMS-250 (65Hz - 20kHz) and AMS-300 (60Hz - 20kHz) as a center, and have liked the results.

Is there a specific reason you want to use the AMS-LCR?

Guys, it is buying time (even the wife is saying so) and i am having a really hard time trying to choose between the Sig S4s V.2 and the Studio 20s V.5. Here's my situation(which some of you may know already):

1) Room size: 15'x10' (15' wall is used for the display) but it's half of it that is used for the watching and listening area
2) Floorstanders are a "no-no" because of space
3) Use is 50/50 HT and music
4) I am getting the CC-690 FOR SURE!!!!!
5) I will have a HSU ULS-15 subwoofer in the 5.1 setup
6) Listening levels will be no more than -15db at any point in time (living with grandad)
7) I will be using a Pioneer SC-27 to push these speakers
8) Future upgrade VERY possible

Please share your thoughts....they are much appreciated.

Ok I have :] adp 590 v.5 on the way.
My question is where do I get the wall mounts for the ADP's?
Thanks for the help guys!

Currently running:
studio 100 v.5
CC 690 v.4
ADP 590 v5
Pioneer vsx 94txh (I know seperates are next)
ok on a side note what seperates for this system would you recomend.
My system is 95% home theatre and 5% music... Budget is $5k for both pre w processor and amp
The more base the better!

If your ADP 590s are new in a box, the wall mounts are included. Very nice. :D

If your ADP 590s are new in a box, the wall mounts are included. Very nice. :D

Thanks for info. Guess I have more money than brains. Opps had more money than brains, spent most of it this system.

Guys, it is buying time (even the wife is saying so) and i am having a really hard time trying to choose between the Sig S4s V.2 and the Studio 20s V.5. Here's my situation(which some of you may know already):

1) Room size: 15'x10' (15' wall is used for the display) but it's half of it that is used for the watching and listening area
2) Floorstanders are a "no-no" because of space
3) Use is 50/50 HT and music
4) I am getting the CC-690 FOR SURE!!!!!
5) I will have a HSU ULS-15 subwoofer in the 5.1 setup
6) Listening levels will be no more than -15db at any point in time (living with grandad)
7) I will be using a Pioneer SC-27 to push these speakers
8) Future upgrade VERY possible

Please share your thoughts....they are much appreciated.


Are bookshelves going on stands or on a cabinet? The studio 60 footprint will be no bigger than either of the other speakers on a stand. The v5 studio 60 was redesigned and much smaller than it's predecessor. That would be a great match with a CC690.

There is no doubt that the sig 4 is much better than a studio 20. It isn't a fair comparison. Between the 2, I would go sig in a heartbeat.

Ok I have :] adp 590 v.5 on the way.
My question is where do I get the wall mounts for the ADP's?
Thanks for the help guys!

Currently running:
studio 100 v.5
CC 690 v.4
ADP 590 v5
Pioneer vsx 94txh (I know seperates are next)
ok on a side note what seperates for this system would you recomend.
My system is 95% home theatre and 5% music... Budget is $5k for both pre w processor and amp
The more base the better!

Anthem separates are always an awesome choice, another in a slightly lower pricepoint would be Marantz separates. The preamp really caught me by surprise. If you are looking for video scaling as well, I wouldn't buy it, but for sound quality, it is right up there with some much more expesive pre/pro's. The matching amp has some balls as well. We used it for a while to push some Focal Electra 1037's while we were waiting for our McIntosh 501's to come in.

can cut out part of the center stud to fit the speaker horizontally, but don't have enough height between the tv and the cabinet for the components to put a 250 there. maybe the way to go would be to get a regular center cc290? or go above the tv with the 250?

I have a quick question. I had the crossover in my CC-350 go out I think. It doesn't sound like a blown driver, just very muffled like only the low end of the dialog missing all the mid and upper ranges. I put it on the L/R channels and it sounded the same exact way so it's not a bad channel on the amp or my preamp. My question is this, if I replace it with a cc290 or 390 will it still be fairly seamless with my Monitor 7 v1?

Are bookshelves going on stands or on a cabinet? The studio 60 footprint will be no bigger than either of the other speakers on a stand. The v5 studio 60 was redesigned and much smaller than it's predecessor. That would be a great match with a CC690.

There is no doubt that the sig 4 is much better than a studio 20. It isn't a fair comparison. Between the 2, I would go sig in a heartbeat.

They will be going on the stands that are made for them (J-29 i think). But wouldnt the floorstanding speakers be way louder and fuller in sound than the bookshelves? wouldnt the Studio 60s or 100s be more enveloping than the Sig S4s since the S4s are only bookshelves?

wouldnt the Studio 60s or 100s be more enveloping than the Sig S4s since the S4s are only bookshelves?nope not by a long shot

Ok I have :] adp 590 v.5 on the way.
My question is where do I get the wall mounts for the ADP's?
Thanks for the help guys!

Currently running:
studio 100 v.5
CC 690 v.4
ADP 590 v5
Pioneer vsx 94txh (I know seperates are next)
ok on a side note what seperates for this system would you recomend.
My system is 95% home theatre and 5% music... Budget is $5k for both pre w processor and amp
The more base the better!

I actually wouldn't reccommend separates for 95% HT. I'd recommend a high powered receiver and a couple of subs. Make sure the receiver has the Audyssey XT platform or better (Pro) and configurable dual sub outputs.
If you're hell bent on separates I couldn't think of a better bang for the buck package than an Integra 9.9 and D-Sonic 2500-7 amp. That should be in your budget range, but wouldn't leave coin for subs.

Guys, it is buying time (even the wife is saying so) and i am having a really hard time trying to choose between the Sig S4s V.2 and the Studio 20s V.5. Here's my situation(which some of you may know already):

1) Room size: 15'x10' (15' wall is used for the display) but it's half of it that is used for the watching and listening area
2) Floorstanders are a "no-no" because of space
3) Use is 50/50 HT and music
4) I am getting the CC-690 FOR SURE!!!!!
5) I will have a HSU ULS-15 subwoofer in the 5.1 setup
6) Listening levels will be no more than -15db at any point in time (living with grandad)
7) I will be using a Pioneer SC-27 to push these speakers
8) Future upgrade VERY possible

Please share your thoughts....they are much appreciated.


I think I already suggested the S4's last page. Since music is a big part of your equation, you'll get your money's worth out of the S4's. The BE tweeter is a treat, one of the best I've heard and that alone is a reason to go with the S4's along with what I said previously.

...But wouldnt the floorstanding speakers be way louder and fuller in sound than the bookshelves?

My room is 14 x 24, and the S4's I had played as loud and clean in that room as my current S8's. I'm a big live concert DVD fan and listen to near concert levels frequently.

Which one to go with, please help with advice.
Current - Def Tech. PF18 - Selling
possible - Paradigm ps1000
possible - SVS PB12
possible - Velodyne spl1000

ALL are in a price range of +/- $125

Any suggestions on which Sub to go with. Mostly useing for movies, room is 20X28. Fronts are powered Def techs, center is also powered. Looking for something no tto boomy, tight and accurate with somewhat of a small footprint.

Thanks for anyones assistance.

sjking, I'm no expert but from that list I'd take the SVS. I'd rule out the Paradigm PS because I have a friend with an early model and I really don't like it. Its a one note/boomy sub. I can't vote for the Velodyne only because I haven't heard it.

Post your question in the Subwoofers forum. They should be able to give you more choices and opinions. My guess is they will suggest two subs for a room that size.

And if you're at all handy with tools check out the DIY forum. They will have other options for you too.

I was actually going to get the fathom f113 sub then i saw the new paradigm sub25 and that is what i think i am going to get. Right now I have a low end velodyne which flutters and bites its tongue. Thank you for the info on the Audyssey, so then you are thinking I should get one of the high end A/V recievers like the Denon AVR-5308CI(A)? Maybe I should get a HT guy to come out? The only problem with that is they are limited in what they can sell and I tend to believe they push what has he highest margins.

I actually wouldn't reccommend separates for 95% HT. I'd recommend a high powered receiver and a couple of subs. Make sure the receiver has the Audyssey XT platform or better (Pro) and configurable dual sub outputs.
If you're hell bent on separates I couldn't think of a better bang for the buck package than an Integra 9.9 and D-Sonic 2500-7 amp. That should be in your budget range, but wouldn't leave coin for subs.

Just got a whole used Paradigm 5.1 setup

Monitor 9's v4
CC-370 v4
Mini Monitors v4
PS-1200 v4

Cant wait for it to be delivered :D

What receivers work best with Paradigms for HT?

Im thinking about a refurb Onkyo Tx-sr706 for $430?

I like the 4 hdmi inputs and it decodes all the different types of audio. But im open to any other suggestions?

I think I already suggested the S4's last page. Since music is a big part of your equation, you'll get your money's worth out of the S4's. The BE tweeter is a treat, one of the best I've heard and that alone is a reason to go with the S4's along with what I said previously.

Thank you very much rnrgagne, your responses are much appreciated. I listen to a lot of hip hop, alternative, rock and reggae. Not much jazz though.....:rolleyes: i should really start. i'm guessing i will get the S4s but i am worried about the CC-690 wont match well for HT with the Sigs......aw well.

Just got a whole used Paradigm 5.1 setup

Monitor 9's v4
CC-370 v4
Mini Monitors v4
PS-1200 v4

Cant wait for it to be delivered :D

What receivers work best with Paradigms for HT?

Im thinking about a refurb Onkyo Tx-sr706 for $430?

I like the 4 hdmi inputs and it decodes all the different types of audio. But im open to any other suggestions?

My Paradigm system did well with an older Yamaha RX-V659 and now performs very well with a Pioneer Elite VSX-21THX.
Good for you on the purchase...good gear.

Thank you very much rnrgagne, your responses are much appreciated. I listen to a lot of hip hop, alternative, rock and reggae. Not much jazz though.....:rolleyes: i should really start. i'm guessing i will get the S4s but i am worried about the CC-690 wont match well for HT with the Sigs......aw well.

The 690 will do "OK"....

I wouldn't say it was perfect, but until I got my C5 up and running with the S8's I bought I was using the 690 until the replacement driver came for the C5. It wasn't some horrible experience by any stretch of the means. Is the C3 or C5 a better match - of coarse, but for HT you could use the 690 just fine. It won't be as crystal clear, and I feel I got a bit better dispersion and sweeter highs with the Be tweeter as was already stated, but they are still a pretty close timbre match...

I was actually going to get the fathom f113 sub then i saw the new paradigm sub25 and that is what i think i am going to get. Right now I have a low end velodyne which flutters and bites its tongue. Thank you for the info on the Audyssey, so then you are thinking I should get one of the high end A/V recievers like the Denon AVR-5308CI(A)? Maybe I should get a HT guy to come out? The only problem with that is they are limited in what they can sell and I tend to believe they push what has he highest margins.

Well I'm super pleased with the AVP, which the 5308 is very close to in performance according to the Audioholics review. But there's a few models below that which also offer great performance like the 4810 & 3810. Onkyo also has some good units with Audyssey. The on board Audyssey is pretty easy to use so you don't need and installer or HT guy.

Quick question for you guys,

Local dealer has a lightly used pair of Paradigm Esprit V.3 for sale. Asking $340. for them. I have Atoms and a cc-190 right now and have been thinking about a new L/R and moving the Atoms to the rear.
Should I be interested in these? Do the esprit match up with the 190 and atoms? Not sure of the the version # of the 190 and Atoms but I bought them new last year.

Thanks for your replies!
Luke

Thank you very much rnrgagne, your responses are much appreciated. I listen to a lot of hip hop, alternative, rock and reggae. Not much jazz though.....:rolleyes: i should really start. i'm guessing i will get the S4s but i am worried about the CC-690 wont match well for HT with the Sigs......aw well.

I'm not familiar with the room correction of the Pioneer, it's one of the few I haven't tried, but if it's anything close to what Audyssey offers it will help to timber match the CC with your mains. I think don't think they should be too far off to begin with.

Jazz is definitely an aquired taste, start with blues..it's more fun ;)