system 1 with those choices

I'd skip the Monitor 3 and go either Mini Monitors or Monitor 5s. I'd also suggest another subwoofer manufaturer - I'm sure you've heard this before - such as SVS or HSU.

I personally have a SR-5600 + Monitor 7 2.0 system right now - love it. The SR-5600 isn't much for connections, though, in terms of video. Sounds great, though. If you dig classical music, they are quite amazing.

I personally have a SR-5600 + Monitor 7 2.0 system right now - love it. The SR-5600 isn't much for connections, though, in terms of video. Sounds great, though. If you dig classical music, they are quite amazing.

thanks...
what do you mean it isn't much for connections? i'd be using mine mostly for video. would you suggest something else?

Sorry but I don't think so - you can get the GST back but the PST is another story. To the best of my knowledge there is no method for you to get the 8% Ontario Provincial Tax back. Oh, and NAFTA deals with import duties and tariffs rather than domestic taxation.

Welcome to our over taxed country :eek:
You definitely can get Ontario PST back - I've done it several times.

But you must satisfy all the rules - like the actual tax must be at least $50 in one lump sum - not many little pieces, copy of the receipt must be stamped at the border, and you must fill in a form and mail it in to the gov.

Ed

thanks...
what do you mean it isn't much for connections? i'd be using mine mostly for video. would you suggest something else?

The Marantz SR-5600 has 2 component inputs.
The comparable Denon 2106 has 3 component inputs.

I was a bit leary of the fact Marantzes are made in China, and Denons in Japan, but so far, my build quality has been nothing less of excellent. A well-made box. Besides the 2 component inputs issue - I wish it had 3 - I love mine. I just got a better deal relative to MSRP on the Marantz, than I did on the Denon.

This is my first system ever, and its just a starting point for me, which I hope will grow in a few years down the line. I will be using my system mostly (90%) for Movies/sports. thanks in advance

here are 3 systems, which one would you pick? or with the same budget, what would you get (including items not listed) ?



I like system 3 but with a few twists. Mine is somewhat similar but no DVD-R and I have a projector instead of plasma. It's in a basement (light controlled) and the projector/screen combo is about $2k vs the $4k for the plasma. Plus the screen is over 100". Sports look especially awesome on the big screen in High Def! My system was all in just over $5k so you can go a bit cheaper.

I have the Yamaha RX-V1600 which is the same essentially as the HTR-5990 receiver in system 3. It rocks. I've heard the Denon also has some good aspects too. (see bi-amping later). These big receivers will be more powerful than the Titans or mini-monitors are rated for.

Depending upon your room size and shape you may want some more bass than the smaller fronts specified here. Upgrading the fronts to Monitor 5, 7 or 9 might be good. I started out with Monitor 9's without a sub and added it later when more money was available. I eventually got a JBL northridge sub cheaper than a paradigm and have been happy. OK, it may not be as great as a Hsu or other higher end subs but I already have the monitor 9's for good bass. I was happy without the sub. With the sub makes me slightly happier. But if I did not have the good bass on the monitor 9's it would not be as good since the sub only handles the way low sounds well.

Also, check the difference in price of the speaker plus the stands versus upgrading to ones that will be on the floor by themselves. The difference may be less than you thought.

Another advantage of floor standing speakers is that you can bi-amp the speakers so the bass gets plenty of power to itself. (all the amps you listed have this capability I think) With the smaller speakers listed, they will be sharing that power with the tweeters. Can't tell which speakers have two terminals but it's easy to look around back when shopping.

One other thing about the center channel speakers, the width of the CC-370 is about an inch wider or taller than many of the spaces allowed by furniture manufacturers. So compare the measurements to any furniture you might buy.

I wall mounted Cinema 110 speakers as my rear speakers instead of Atoms or Titans or Monitor 3's. The tweeters match well apparently but I'd bet the Titans would be good too. Rear speakers get good crowd noise in sports as I torture myself as the Phillies lose again. :(

any news on v4 of paradigm speakers? whats it all mean, just a new model for the year but the same old thing.. but better? im confused

Ok, guys..

After 10 years I am finally ready to get my Studio fronts to match the Reference center, sub, and surrounds I bought way back then (long story short, I figured I'd get the fronts in a year or so.. Then came kids, a car, etc, etc)..

But I'll ask this question one more time:

Studio 60's or Studio 100's?

I have a 14x20 room, and a PW-2200 sub.

My reciever will be an Arcam AVR-300..

Hopefully some of you have tried both speakers with a PW-2200 or Servo, and can give me your impressions..

Thanks for any and al comments!!!!!

You definitely can get Ontario PST back - I've done it several times.

But you must satisfy all the rules - like the actual tax must be at least $50 in one lump sum - not many little pieces, copy of the receipt must be stamped at the border, and you must fill in a form and mail it in to the gov.

Ed

Well thats exactly what I found out today...The GST is given back at the Duty Free store, just before you leave Canada. The PST/RST is given back if you fill out the form and meet all of the requirments. 1. Product most leave Canada with 30 days 2. You prove your not a Canadian Citizen 3. Receipt 4. Must pay 50.00 in tax on one purchase from same seller.

Now on the pricing.

American Dealer Canadian Dealer
Studio 100 Studio 100
CC 570 CC 570
ADP 470 ADP 470
PDR 12 PW 2200
200.00 More

THats in American $$$

What I forgot to due was ask for the MSRP from the Canadian Dealer so that I could have seen what I was saving in % that way I would know if I could get a better deal...Especially since I'm paying in CASH :D

I know, I should save for the Servo, but the Dealer has a trade up within 1 year as long as you buy 50% more than value and that would qualify.

AM

Doug,

For stereo listening, the 100s are better. For HT, I'd get the 60s -- you just don't get enough for the money on that upgrade. I went from 60s to 100s and wish I hadn't, but only because 99% of my listening will be HT only. So decide how much music you'll listen to, and if it's say 25% or more, then the 100s may be more worth it.

So you demoed them both, then?

Where the 60's just lacking in the low end, then, and the sub makes it up?

Keep those testimonials coming people!

What I forgot to due was ask for the MSRP from the Canadian Dealer so that I could have seen what I was saving in % that way I would know if I could get a better deal...Especially since I'm paying in CASH :D
What does MSRP have to do with anything? It's just an inflated number from manufacturers to give customers a false sense of "getting a deal". If I build something for $200, expect the market will bear a price of $500, and say the MSRP is $1000, but then mark it down 50%, people will usually buy it rather than saying the MSRP is $600 and only get $100 off. Sad, but true. What should really matter is how it compares to similarly (actual) priced products.

Same question for esaleris.. Why not compare the receivers directly and choose what is better for your needs, not the more expensive one that you supposedly got a better deal on (or was it that they mark up their MSRP?)

So you demoed them both, then?

Where the 60's just lacking in the low end, then, and the sub makes it up?

Keep those testimonials coming people!

You should demo them, since your listening taste are different from everyone else that will post on the subject. However, I will tell you that my wife and I didnt feel that the 60's was worth the upgrade over the Monitor 11's so we will be getting the 100's..... We felt that the 60's was lacking in the low end.

AM

We felt that the 60's was lacking in the low end. We felt that the 60's was lacking in the low end.

Even with a sub?

What sub do you have?

What does MSRP have to do with anything? It's just an inflated number from manufacturers to give customers a false sense of "getting a deal". If I build something for $200, expect the market will bear a price of $500, and say the MSRP is $1000, but then mark it down 50%, people will usually buy it rather than saying the MSRP is $600 and only get $100 off. Sad, but true. What should really matter is how it compares to similarly (actual) priced products.

Same question for esaleris.. Why not compare the receivers directly and choose what is better for your needs, not the more expensive one that you supposedly got a better deal on (or was it that they mark up their MSRP?)


Well you are right MSRP is just a number that is given out by someone in Marketing/Sales Dept. But if one Dealer gives me the total of what all of the items will cost me from the pricing that they have posted in the store and then give me what they will charge me. That gives me a foundation to figure out what type of deal I am getting. Ex: The dealer I went to in the US had a price posted on the 100's and it was less than what everyone will see posted on the Brad Fords Hi Fi website.....

Even with a sub?

What sub do you have?

Of course with a sub it wouldnt lack, but we were listening to them in 2 Channel....that way we would be able to get an idea of the capabilities of them alone.

Of course with a sub it wouldnt lack, but we were listening to them in 2 Channel.

Gotcha.. Thanks for the clarification!

So you demoed them both, then?

Where the 60's just lacking in the low end, then, and the sub makes it up?

Keep those testimonials coming people!
I've owned both of them. First the 60s, then upgraded to the 100s. As am4966 said, the low end is better on the 100s, but that's also why I said if you're going to be using them almost exclusively for HT, then you'll have a sub, so the advantage is minimal. Put the extra $700 or so into a better sub. For two channel listening, the 100s are a good bit better, though.

The dealer I went to in the US had a price posted on the 100's and it was less than what everyone will see posted on the Brad Fords Hi Fi website.....
In that case, you were comparing street prices to street prices, and MSRP wasn't involved. That's what I'm claiming is much more significant. It doesn't matter what the MSRP is, other than that's the figure we need to use to discuss on this forum, since those are the rules. ;)

I've owned both of them. First the 60s, then upgraded to the 100s. As am4966 said, the low end is better on the 100s, but that's also why I said if you're going to be using them almost exclusively for HT, then you'll have a sub, so the advantage is minimal. Put the extra $700 or so into a better sub. For two channel listening, the 100s are a good bit better, though.

You know, I've never understood the belief that full-range floorstanders are better for two channel music than a sub / sat system and that subs are just meant for movies. There is plenty of music in any given movie, so you are going to need "musical" speakers either way. Sound is sound and it doesn't matter if its a CD or a DVD, you still want full range, flat frequency response and low distortion. As long as you get the integration right bewtween the satillites and the sub, a sub / sat combo will handily beat what most people consider a pair of full range speakers for movies and music. The sub /sat will have greater extension too (a pair of 100's really only go down to a solid 40 Hz). If the arguement is that full range speakers sound better integrated than a sub / sat, then I say, get back to work, you aren't done with the set-up.

You know, I've never understood the belief that full-range floorstanders are better for two channel music than a sub / sat system and that subs are just meant for movies. There is plenty of music in any given movie, so you are going to need "musical" speakers either way. Sound is sound and it doesn't matter if its a CD or a DVD, you still want full range, flat frequency response and low distortion. As long as you get the integration right bewtween the satillites and the sub, a sub / sat combo will handily beat what most people consider a pair of full range speakers for movies and music. The sub /sat will have greater extension too (a pair of 100's really only go down to a solid 40 Hz). If the arguement is that full range speakers sound better integrated than a sub / sat, then I say, get back to work, you aren't done with the set-up.

One thing to consider is that the spectral distribution of music is quite different from movie sound track LFE. There really is very little below 30 Hz in music, but many movies go at least an octave lower at high volumes. The tradeoffs in optimization of a subwoofer to produce 16Hz at high volumes preclude optimal rendering of different instrumental textures present in music. Given that I still think that separate subs are very useful for music - integrated floorstanders still suffer from positional tradeoffs that monitor/subs don't. It is just the design of those music oriented subs should be rather different from what is used for HT.

I think that the perception of floorstanders as being better for music comes from the design of most subs on the market being more aimed at HT requirements rather than music requirements.

One thing to consider is that the spectral distribution of music is quite different from movie sound track LFE. There really is very little below 30 Hz in music, but many movies go at least an octave lower at high volumes. The tradeoffs in optimization of a subwoofer to produce 16Hz at high volumes preclude optimal rendering of different instrumental textures present in music. Given that I still think that separate subs are very useful for music - integrated floorstanders still suffer from positional tradeoffs that monitor/subs don't. It is just the design of those music oriented subs should be rather different from what is used for HT.

I think that the perception of floorstanders as being better for music comes from the design of most subs on the market being more aimed at HT requirements rather than music requirements.

I see what you are getting at, however, very, very, few subs can actually reach 16Hz and even fewer can do it with enough power to be meaningful. Most of the power in an explosive sound track is in the 30 - 50Hz range.

You are right, and yes a boomy (non-linear FR, high distortion) sub is going to sound like poo for music, but I was working under the assuption that the comparison needs to be between components of equal quality. That is, high-quality full-range floorstanders vs. high-quality sub / sat. In this case I think sub / sat will win.

You know, I've never understood the belief that full-range floorstanders are better for two channel music than a sub / sat system and that subs are just meant for movies. There is plenty of music in any given movie, so you are going to need "musical" speakers either way. Sound is sound and it doesn't matter if its a CD or a DVD, you still want full range, flat frequency response and low distortion. As long as you get the integration right bewtween the satillites and the sub, a sub / sat combo will handily beat what most people consider a pair of full range speakers for movies and music. The sub /sat will have greater extension too (a pair of 100's really only go down to a solid 40 Hz). If the arguement is that full range speakers sound better integrated than a sub / sat, then I say, get back to work, you aren't done with the set-up.

When you say sub/sat combo I think HTB, not a good quality set of bookshelves/floorstanders and high quality sub.

When listening to 2 channel with my 60's I us my sub on some CDs and have it off on others. Ramsey Lewis and Stanley Clarke are two bass heavy artist that come to mind so I don't use the sub on their CDs.

I haven't had the 60s and 100s in my home side by side to test but I'll put my 60s plus my sub up against 100s any day. :D

Listening to movie music and CDs are two different experiences.

Jaws has a great music score but I really don't care how musical is sounds. :)

Having said all of that I agree with your point.

I see what you are getting at, however, very, very, few subs can actually reach 16Hz and even fewer can do it with enough power to be meaningful. Most of the power in an explosive sound track is in the 30 - 50Hz range.

You are right, and yes a boomy (non-linear FR, high distortion) sub is going to sound like poo for music, but I was working under the assuption that the comparison needs to be between components of equal quality. That is, high-quality full-range floorstanders vs. high-quality sub / sat. In this case I think sub / sat will win.

Non-boomy 16 Hz in quantity is available from companies like SVS for reasonable amounts of money. And the FR is pretty linear with reasonable distortion. What you don't get with a sub like that with the speed to resolve the finer details of a cello's voicing. Maybe there is a sub that can do both, but I haven't heard it.

Some movies that have been coming out recently that have quite a lot of energy in the sub 20 Hz region. Some even below 10 Hz..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=605496&pp=60

I am new to the HT. Actually it has been about 12 years since I paid any attention to Home Audio. Now that I am ready to begin and with the help of the internet there is much information out there (Which makes this process more confusing).

I have learned that one will say speaker "A" is the best and the other will say speaker "A" is the worst.

With that in mind I have been looking into speakers that I will use for 70% HT and 30% music.

Paradigm is one possible choice on my mind as well as Martin Logan and B&K.

I was looking at the Signature Series today but wanted to get some advice from individuals that have Paradigm and have used other brands as well.

I will have a 14' x 18' dedicated HT- looking for 7.1 set up.

Questions:

1. Has anyone had both ML and Paradigm in the past?
2. Is there a Big difference between the Paradigm Signature series and the Reference series as far as sound?

3. Is dipole the way to go with Paradigm for Surrounds? (or is that a personal preference by the listener to HT)

I am battling the same confusion with the Audio Equipment, but that is a whole other topic. (AVR vs Seperates)..

Thank you for some input.

i am currently having to use my 20v3 as my l&r front because
my r 100v3 is in for repair although they sound very good for
such a small speaker i miss the midbass impact the 100's have
and yes i use a sub in every system and there is some info lower
than 30hz in music classical comes to mind and music with a synthesizer.

I haven't had the 60s and 100s in my home side by side to test but I'll put my 60s plus my sub up against 100s any day.

Hmm..

Ok, that's two or three in the 60's/sub camp (as opposed to 100's/sub)..

This is good, as I will be using them almost 100% of the time for HT purposes..

Thanks for the followup - I wasn't (obviously) aware that you could do that. I had always been under the impression that PST was kind of a dead zone. Good to know - thanks!

You definitely can get Ontario PST back - I've done it several times.

But you must satisfy all the rules - like the actual tax must be at least $50 in one lump sum - not many little pieces, copy of the receipt must be stamped at the border, and you must fill in a form and mail it in to the gov.

Ed

Well, every time I think I've made up my mind on a system something changes and I seem to have to go back to square one. It's been a long time since I purchased any equipment so I'm totally out of step with what's available despite spending much of the last 2 months reading this forum for 2 hours a day.

What I do know - I'm having a house built and have installed a Russound CAV66 and have used mostly Paradigm AMS100's in-ceiling for background music. Due to space and WAF I have AMS100's as sound speakers for a 5.1 system. Currently trying to maximize the value of speakers across the front and this where I'm getting lost.

Had originally thought about using Cinema speakers but wife suddenly decided she just didn't like the look of those long skinny speakers down the sides - oh, and would I mind having a custom wall unit built? Of course not dear but you do realize that I'll have to have bookshelf speakers not Cinema speakers - surprisingly she said "okay" just as long as they are black (hmmm, okay, lesson learned). So moving up the food chain I then looked at the Atoms and quickly moved to the Titans. Did some in store auditioning and listened to Mini-monitors - very nice indeed. Having now read more here I started debating Mini-monitors vs. monitor 3's. I go into the store yesterday to audition those and the have Studio 20's on sale (floor models for $200 more than the Mini-monitors) - grrrr. Ran out of time so I have to go back to audition them further. Oh, and they had a very nice price on some Focus speakers as well.

Couple questions:

- would appreciate hearing thoughts about the Mini-monitors v Monitor 3's v Studio 20's (yes, I know I have to listen for myself but there's definitely some comfort in hearing other more experienced folks input);

- any particular concerns about floor models that I should be aware of?

- any concerns about pairing the above with the AMS100 surrounds?

Thanks in advance!

I haven't heard the Monitor 3, but I do have the MiniMonitor and Studio 20. I used MiniMonitor's as my mains for about a month. They were a BIG upgrade from my Polk's. The bass seemed more controlled and overall it was a more "spacious" sound. The MiniMonitor seemed to throw a big soundstage and imaging was outstanding. About a month into listenting to them, I had a chance to check out some Studio 20's. Where the MiniMonitor was a night and day difference compared to my Polk's, the Studio 20 was a night and day difference over my MiniMonitors. The Studio 20 does everything the MiniMonitor does....but better. It is an extremely neutral speaker that offers tight, controlled bass down into the 50hz range. The highs are very crisp and clear, but not to the point that it become annoying. The soundstage is enormous. Imaging is also spectacular. I'll often use Jack Johnson as a demo for friends that want to hear the setup. I turn it on without telling them I'm just running the Studio 20's and the sub. With the superb imaging, Jack Johnson's voice is perfectly centered in the room while instruments are to either side. The imaging is so good and the soundstage so large that people often aren't initially blown away because they believe that the center channel and side surrounds are being utilized. When I inform them that it is just the Studio 20's and the sub, their jaws drop and want to hear it again....basically, I really like the MiniMonitors. It is one of the best speaker purchases I've made....but I LOVE my Studio 20's for doing everything the MiniMonitor does, but better.

I haven't heard the Monitor 3, but I do have the MiniMonitor and Studio 20. I used MiniMonitor's as my mains for about a month. They were a BIG upgrade from my Polk's. The bass seemed more controlled and overall it was a more "spacious" sound. The MiniMonitor seemed to throw a big soundstage and imaging was outstanding. About a month into listenting to them, I had a chance to check out some Studio 20's. Where the MiniMonitor was a night and day difference compared to my Polk's, the Studio 20 was a night and day difference over my MiniMonitors. The Studio 20 does everything the MiniMonitor does....but better. It is an extremely neutral speaker that offers tight, controlled bass down into the 50hz range. The highs are very crisp and clear, but not to the point that it become annoying. The soundstage is enormous. Imaging is also spectacular. I'll often use Jack Johnson as a demo for friends that want to hear the setup. I turn it on without telling them I'm just running the Studio 20's and the sub. With the superb imaging, Jack Johnson's voice is perfectly centered in the room while instruments are to either side. The imaging is so good and the soundstage so large that people often aren't initially blown away because they believe that the center channel and side surrounds are being utilized. When I inform them that it is just the Studio 20's and the sub, their jaws drop and want to hear it again....basically, I really like the MiniMonitors. It is one of the best speaker purchases I've made....but I LOVE my Studio 20's for doing everything the MiniMonitor does, but better.
Ditto. The Studio 20s are amazing! Well worth every penny and then some.

Visually inspect the floor models. If they look like they are a little dinged up, they may not have been cared for properly when played either. Although it is hard to tell if they have been overdriven, if they look clean and the dealer shows them respect while give you a demo, they are probably well taken care of. At only two hundred below the Minis, that is a great deal. You may proceed with caution since that is such a good deal, but if they check out well and look and sound good, jump all over it. That is a hot price.

Although the SA-10R would be a better suited speaker for a surround with the Studio 20s, the AMS-100s are just fine.

-K

Paradigm is one possible choice on my mind as well as Martin Logan and B&K.

I was looking at the Signature Series today but wanted to get some advice from individuals that have Paradigm and have used other brands as well.

I will have a 14' x 18' dedicated HT- looking for 7.1 set up.

Questions:

1. Has anyone had both ML and Paradigm in the past?
2. Is there a Big difference between the Paradigm Signature series and the Reference series as far as sound?

3. Is dipole the way to go with Paradigm for Surrounds? (or is that a personal preference by the listener to HT)

I am battling the same confusion with the Audio Equipment, but that is a whole other topic. (AVR vs Seperates)..

Thank you for some input.

1. Yes, actually I used to own some medium sized floorstanding ML's (Aerius I think) for a few months about a year and a half ago, and now I own Paradigm S4s, C3, and ADPs. Long story short, I would not reccommend ML speakers for home theater, or rock music. That thin electrostatic film is great for small-ensemble jazz and vocal pieces, but they just don't have the dynamic capability for rock and action films. The sound quickly becomes compressed, strained and congested when pushed. I bought them before I knew this. I should clarify one thing though, and that is you can get decent dynamic capability from the really big ML models. But they cost considerably more than any of the Signature speakers. You also have to have ample room behind the ML's for them to work properly (because they are dipolar and emit sound out of the back as well as the front). Probably 3-4 feet I would say. One last thing, the ML sound is VERY directional and you will tend to notice that stereo imaging goes away when you move even just a few degrees off of the sweet spot AND you lose most high frequency response if standing above the top of the electrostatic panel.

2. IMO, no. The Sigs have maybe 10-15% better sound quality than the Studios. You are paying mainly for the gorgeous cabinets in the Signature line.

3. This is a matter of preference and intended use. The simple answer is that most would say that the ADPs are better suited for movies and the direct radiating (normal) speakers are better for surround music. The dipoles produce an enveloping diffuse sound, where the direct radiators are well, more direct.

4. AVR vs Separates - Some will argue this, but these days, technology has progressed to the point that you can get 90% of the sound quality from a high-end AVR than you would from separates. Check out Rotel, Denon, Pioneer and Marantz.

Cheers,

- Tim

Wow Tim

Thank you for the help. I listened to the Sig. Series again today and they are great. Although the place I was at had a ton of power amps running which I will not be able to do.

I don't think that I would notice the difference between the Sig. vs studios just because I have been away from it for so long. Heck, all the systems today sound great from 12-13 years ago.

I think I agree on the ML for HT. However, I do own the Grotto sub I bought from a friend.

How would the ML Grotto match up with the Paridigm Studio line??

Thank you,

K

My thoughts are to go with:

Studio 40 for F/L
ML Grotto Sub
CC-470 (or) CC-570 for Center (which would match the Studio 40's better????)

Have to decide on dipole or DR for Sides and Rears. (Studio 20's or ADP-470)

Thank you again for any assistance.

K

You know, I've never understood the belief that full-range floorstanders are better for two channel music than a sub / sat system and that subs are just meant for movies. There is plenty of music in any given movie, so you are going to need "musical" speakers either way. Sound is sound and it doesn't matter if its a CD or a DVD, you still want full range, flat frequency response and low distortion. As long as you get the integration right bewtween the satillites and the sub, a sub / sat combo will handily beat what most people consider a pair of full range speakers for movies and music. The sub /sat will have greater extension too (a pair of 100's really only go down to a solid 40 Hz). If the arguement is that full range speakers sound better integrated than a sub / sat, then I say, get back to work, you aren't done with the set-up.
I've never understood it either - did someone say that? ;) I'm talking about 60s vs 100s directly, not 60s & sub vs 100s. In other words, if you're not going to be using a sub, then the 100s would probably be a better choice, especially for music (due to music not typically going as low). However, in Doug's situation, I'd recommend 60s.

My thoughts are to go with:

CC-470 (or) CC-570 for Center (which would match the Studio 40's better????)

K
CC-570 all the way.

-K

Well, every time I think I've made up my mind on a system something changes and I seem to have to go back to square one. It's been a long time since I purchased any equipment so I'm totally out of step with what's available despite spending much of the last 2 months reading this forum for 2 hours a day.

What I do know - I'm having a house built and have installed a Russound CAV66 and have used mostly Paradigm AMS100's in-ceiling for background music. Due to space and WAF I have AMS100's as sound speakers for a 5.1 system. Currently trying to maximize the value of speakers across the front and this where I'm getting lost.

Had originally thought about using Cinema speakers but wife suddenly decided she just didn't like the look of those long skinny speakers down the sides - oh, and would I mind having a custom wall unit built? Of course not dear but you do realize that I'll have to have bookshelf speakers not Cinema speakers - surprisingly she said "okay" just as long as they are black (hmmm, okay, lesson learned). So moving up the food chain I then looked at the Atoms and quickly moved to the Titans. Did some in store auditioning and listened to Mini-monitors - very nice indeed. Having now read more here I started debating Mini-monitors vs. monitor 3's. I go into the store yesterday to audition those and the have Studio 20's on sale (floor models for $200 more than the Mini-monitors) - grrrr. Ran out of time so I have to go back to audition them further. Oh, and they had a very nice price on some Focus speakers as well.

Couple questions:

- would appreciate hearing thoughts about the Mini-monitors v Monitor 3's v Studio 20's (yes, I know I have to listen for myself but there's definitely some comfort in hearing other more experienced folks input);

- any particular concerns about floor models that I should be aware of?

- any concerns about pairing the above with the AMS100 surrounds?

Thanks in advance!

I haven't heard the Monitor 3's nor the Studio 20's. The Mini-Monitors (I listened to the v.3 not the newer v.4) were excellent for their price range. They are a pretty good step up from the Atoms that I currently use as my mains as well as the Titans. My Paradigm dealer did me the "favor" of letting me listen to the Signature Series S2 a while back when I wanted to get a listen to the new v.4 Monitor series. The S2's really blew me away and I practically spent my whole lunch hour at the dealer listening. You might want to give a listen to the S2 too, but of course the price is much more. If you go with the studio 20 or even higher, just keep in mind that you want matching center for the front so that it will be more money out the door as well.

My thoughts are to go with:

Studio 40 for F/L
ML Grotto Sub
CC-470 (or) CC-570 for Center (which would match the Studio 40's better????)

Have to decide on dipole or DR for Sides and Rears. (Studio 20's or ADP-470)

Thank you again for any assistance.

K
CC570 for a center
ADP470 for rears for HT
I would use studio 20s for HD Audio

Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to do a direct comparison of paradigm studios to some of the id brands. The ones I'm thinking of are ascend, rockets, and axiom. I have been lusting after the studio 60's and the cc-470 for a little while. Every time I get ready to buy, some detail delays it. I'm not looking for better or worse because I know that is subjective. But with any of the above brands, do any of them sound similar?

I've never understood it either - did someone say that? ;) I'm talking about 60s vs 100s directly, not 60s & sub vs 100s. In other words, if you're not going to be using a sub, then the 100s would probably be a better choice, especially for music (due to music not typically going as low). However, in Doug's situation, I'd recommend 60s.

Sorry Tim, thought you were implying that 100's would be better than 60's + sub for music. I see we are on the same page.

Cheers.

My thoughts are to go with:

Studio 40 for F/L
ML Grotto Sub
CC-470 (or) CC-570 for Center (which would match the Studio 40's better????)

Have to decide on dipole or DR for Sides and Rears. (Studio 20's or ADP-470)

Thank you again for any assistance.

K

The Grotto is supposed to be a very good sub. I'm sure that it will sound great with the Paradigms.

Definitely go for the 570 for the center. It is technically a much better speaker. You should be very happy with your proposed set-up.

Thanks, I hope so.

Lastly, I am looking at doing columns for the surround speakers. Just wondering on the Studio 20's being that they are 13" deep how much space should I have behind the speaker. I plan on stuffing the column and around the speaker with insulation. It seems that I will have a fairly deep column.

thanks

Denon 3801
Paradigm Studio 40's Front
Paradigm 470 Center
Paradigm Studio 20's Rear
Paradigm UltraCube10 Subwoofer

and they sound great!

Sorry Tim, thought you were implying that 100's would be better than 60's + sub for music

Umm..

He was.. Wasn't he? :)

100's for music, 60's for HT..

Umm..

He was.. Wasn't he? :)

100's for music, 60's for HT..

100's by themselve or with Sub....60's must have a sub

AM

Maranyz SR8500
Paradigm Studio 60v3 Front
Paradigm 570v3 Center
Paradigm 20v3 Rear
SVS 20-39 Plus Sub
I love this setup.

To add to the confusion. I was at my friends house today and he has a nice set up. but he has

Dipoles on the sides and Direct Rad. Speakers for his rear, shooting down from the top of the back wall pointed at the listening position.

Sounded Great! The dipoles on the side kept the effects from being so noticeable but you could really get the rear effects.

I was going to have the reverse done (Direct on sides, Dipole in rear)

I know it is a personal preference but what experience have you all had with this.

7.1 system BTW.

Thanks

To add to the confusion. I was at my friends house today and he has a nice set up. but he has

Dipoles on the sides and Direct Rad. Speakers for his rear, shooting down from the top of the back wall pointed at the listening position.

Sounded Great! The dipoles on the side kept the effects from being so noticeable but you could really get the rear effects.

I was going to have the reverse done (Direct on sides, Dipole in rear)

I know it is a personal preference but what experience have you all had with this.

7.1 system BTW.

Lastly, I am looking at doing columns for the surround speakers. Just wondering on the Studio 20's being that they are 13" deep how much space should I have behind the speaker. I plan on stuffing the column and around the speaker with insulation. It seems that I will have a fairly deep column.


Thanks

Dipoles will work in the back, but the are MEANT to be place to the sides, slightly behind the main listening seat.

The 20's need probably 1-2 feet of space behind them or the could sound a bit bloated in the upper bass. I would experiment by placing them on stands close to the walls beofr you commit to your columns idea.

To add to the confusion. I was at my friends house today and he has a nice set up. but he has

Dipoles on the sides and Direct Rad. Speakers for his rear, shooting down from the top of the back wall pointed at the listening position.

Sounded Great! The dipoles on the side kept the effects from being so noticeable but you could really get the rear effects.

I was going to have the reverse done (Direct on sides, Dipole in rear)

I know it is a personal preference but what experience have you all had with this.

7.1 system BTW.

Thanks
Happy 4th everyone!

I helped a buddy of mine with his HT install. He had a set of directs and a set of dipoles. After allot of listening and input from about 10 people he decided on dipole surrounds and direct rears mounted about 3 feet apart. Most everyone, including myself, thought this setup sounded best.

As a follow up to an earlier post - I bought the Studio 20's yesterday after auditioning the Mini-monitors and Monitor 3's. The pricing was too good to ignore. I will add a CC470, they had a CC570 at virtually the same price but because it is going into a wall unit the rear port concerned me. A couple more questions if people don't mind:

- for surrounds I have AMS250's (not the 100's as previously mentioned - mistake on invoice) but could put the SA25's in for an additional $250. Is it really worth the extra $$?

- any thoughts on adding a sub that would compliment this system? The room is 19x16 with a vaulted ceiling up to 20' and the room is open on one end to the kitchen which is 19x18. I don't want a sub that overpowers the rest of the system but rather one that will integrate well. When I listen to music I definitely not one to turn up the bass, if anything I prefer more trebel but with the 20's they do need something to fill in the bottom end.

Thanks to all that responded previously.

Cheers!

60's must have a sub

Got one.. (PW-2200)

any thoughts on adding a sub that would compliment this system?

DEFINATELY get a sub..

The sub will not overpower the rest of the system as long as you don't have your sub cut-off frequency set too high..

Thanks Guys, I appreciate the help.

I think I am going to end up with the ADP 470's for my surrounds on the sides for sure. Just makes sense in my columns. (The columns will be somewhat of a Hexagon shape to it so it will be open on the sides of the dipole).

They will be at 5.5 feet off the ground.

If I do columns in the rear I will go with ADP 470's as well, if not I am still debating on the 20's.

Is it recomended that the 470 be parallel or can/should angle down to the listening area?

thanks

100's by themselve or with Sub....60's must have a sub

AM
IMO, a sub should be included in a system even with the 100s. A must if they're used at all for HT purposes.

IMO, a sub should be included in a system even with the 100s. A must if they're used at all for HT purposes.


I totally AGREE! But you could get by without a sub with the 100's....until you could afford to get one.


Also on a side note.....I am wanting to get a AMP to go with my Yammy 2600, since down the road I would like to buy a Pre/Pro once all of the HDMI issues have been decided, inreguards to 1080p, HD DD and HD DTS. I'm looking in the 1000-2000.00 price range. It can be 5 channels since thats all I can run , but 7 channel will also be considerd(Since I'm going to eventually setup a second zone on my Deck. I am going to have 100's, CC 570 and ADP 470's. Thanks for any imput you may have.


AM

But you could get by without a sub with the 100's....until you could afford to get one. How you can afford 100s and not a sub, I don't know... unless you're going to start with a lot of stereo music listening. Otherwise, if cost is the main factor, just get the 60s and a sub first, and upgrade to 100s later. (Note that I'm not directing this at you per se, but just your comment)

For a good 5 or 7 channel amp for the price, look at the Outlaw 7000 series (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/index.html).

But you could get by without a sub with the 100's....until you could afford to get one.

If you weren't going to be doing any HT, just sterio music listening, this would be true, I guess (though I know I love the extra punch my sub gives to most music tracks)..

If you're going to do HT, though, a sub is essential..

2 of 'em... :)

I'm getting an Arcam AVR300 for my reciever, which is in your price range..

But if I was in the States, I would definately get Outlaw seperates..

Want to get some opinions

I can buy the following all new. Just want to see if this is a good deal.

2 -Studio 40's
1- CC-570
4- ADP-470's

Total Cost

from dealer

I am a newbie on this and don't want to get screwed over, atleast not too bad...lol

Thank you,

Want to get some opinions

I can buy the following all new. Just want to see if this is a good deal.

2 -Studio 40's
1- CC-570
4- ADP-470's

Total Cost

$3825.00 from dealer

I am a newbie on this and don't want to get screwed over, atleast not too bad...lol

Thank you,

You might want to edit your price since your not allowed to post actual dollars here. But I dont think thats a good deal since I got 100's with the above mention really, really close to that price...and got even a better deal when I went to Canada due to the exchange rate.

Also Tim have you ever heard of a BUDGET? Since someone may have alloted amount $$$$ and they might meet that without the subwoofer.

AM

Also Tim have you ever heard of a BUDGET? Since someone may have alloted amount $$$$ and they might meet that without the subwoofer.
AM

I'm sure he has, but the point I believe he was making is that "if" one is setting up a home theater and they are doing it with out a sub one may want to rethink their budget process. :D

I'm sure he has, but the point I believe he was making is that "if" one is setting up a home theater and they are doing it with out a sub one may want to rethink their budget process. :D


WHY? If your wanting to get model A and know that you wont be happy with model B, but model B comes with a Sub. They will buy Model A and get the sub down the road.

Look at it like this, some people will get a AMP then buy a Pre/Pro down the road due to cost. Your way of thinking is get a lesser product so that you can buy both the AMP and Pre/Pro at the same time.

AM

Hey guy i need some recomendations. I'm really new to this and this is my first theater system. I just recently picked up a Paradigm Cinema 70 CT 5.1 speaker system and an Onkyo TXSR504B Receiver. Now I have no clue what kind of speaker wires I need to buy. I was told the lower the gauge is like 12 is better.

I'm planning on getting these :
12AWG Enhanced Loud Oxygen-Free Copper Speaker Cable - 100ft
from Monoprice.

Also for the woofer.. its pretty far from the receiver so i need somehting long. the connection on the woofer is an L/R audio and in the receiver was just one plug and I dont know what kind it is. Any help would be appreciated thanx in advance!

Hey guy i need some recomendations. I'm really new to this and this is my first theater system. I just recently picked up a Paradigm Cinema 70 CT 5.1 speaker system and an Onkyo TXSR504B Receiver. Now I have no clue what kind of speaker wires I need to buy. I was told the lower the gauge is like 12 is better.

I'm planning on getting these :
12AWG Enhanced Loud Oxygen-Free Copper Speaker Cable - 100ft
from Monoprice.

Also for the woofer.. its pretty far from the receiver so i need somehting long. the connection on the woofer is an L/R audio and in the receiver was just one plug and I dont know what kind it is. Any help would be appreciated thanx in advance!

How far are the speakers going to be from the receiver? and how far is "pretty far" for the sub?

well since i'm gonna make the wires run along the wall the furthest speaker would need 40ft of wire to the receiver and the woofer about 50ft since it goes around the room.

Want to get some opinions

I can buy the following all new. Just want to see if this is a good deal.

2 -Studio 40's
1- CC-570
4- ADP-470's

Total Cost

$3825.00 from dealer

I am a newbie on this and don't want to get screwed over, atleast not too bad...lol

Thank you,

Thats not too bad of a deal, retail is $4400 for that package. The only 2 problems I see is...

1) No sub....or do you have that already?

2) You have half of your money into the surrounds. A little steep and unnecessary if you ask me. If you have a budget set around $4K AND you do need a sub, then I would modify your choices with the following....

Studio 20's for the front
Studio CC570 for the center
ADP470 for the side surrounds
Studio 20's for the rear surrounds
And a PW2100 for the LFE

That would bring you roughly to the same retail pricing as you were previously.
If budget is tighter or maybe get a better sub, then nothing wrong with 4 Studio 20's for the surrounds, hell, even Minis or Titans are not a bad choice.

Of all the speakers in a given system, I feel the center and subwoofer are the biggest players in a HT setup....but thats just me.

well since i'm gonna make the wires run along the wall the furthest speaker would need 40ft of wire to the receiver and the woofer about 50ft since it goes around the room.

50'? Cant say I ever sold or seen a 50' sub cable. Most are 25' for the longest.
You may want to re-think where you want to place the sub as I'm sure you can find a closer location without any real problems. And please dont mention WAF. :rolleyes:

Oh, and most cables will include a 'Y' connector for dual inputs on the sub.

Your way of thinking is get a lesser product so that you can buy both the AMP and Pre/Pro at the same time.

Still the better option, in my opinion..

It's taken me 10 years to get my Studio 60 fronts.. :(

Getting a better functioning HT, with all the neccessary components, is better than having a gaping hole missing..

Just my 2 cents..

50'? Cant say I ever sold or seen a 50' sub cable. Most are 25' for the longest.
You may want to re-think where you want to place the sub as I'm sure you can find a closer location without any real problems. And please dont mention WAF. :rolleyes:

Oh, and most cables will include a 'Y' connector for dual inputs on the sub.

i actually just found this at mono:

High-quality Digital Coaxial Audio RCA Cable M/M RG59U 75ohm Gold connector S/PDIF Subwoofer - 50ft.

and are the speaker wires i mentioned earlier good for my system?

i actually just found this at mono:

High-quality Digital Coaxial Audio RCA Cable M/M RG59U 75ohm Gold connector S/PDIF Subwoofer - 50ft.

and are the speaker wires i mentioned earlier good for my system?

Yes, all of the wire / cable you have chosen will do just fine. I wouldn't go under 12 gauge for the speaker wire at the length you are looking at. I also use a coaxial RCA for my sub (and all my interconnects for that matter).

Kermie, My bad! I just now realized that you had 4 surrounds in that qoute.

Also when I went to get a qoute from the dealer, I told them that i would be paying in Cash and they dropped the sale's tax....So if your paying via check or cash let them know and maybe that will help with the deal too.


AM

Kermie, My bad! I just now realized that you had 4 surrounds in that qoute.

Also when I went to get a qoute from the dealer, I told them that i would be paying in Cash and they dropped the sale's tax....So if your paying via check or cash let them know and maybe that will help with the deal too.


AM


AM, Thanks for the help---I did edit the pricing.... I also will take note of the cash deal ...can't hurt to try..

Yosh---------I do have a ML Grotto Sub purchased from a friend to work into this. just to clarify..

thanks again..

WHY? If your wanting to get model A and know that you wont be happy with model B, but model B comes with a Sub. They will buy Model A and get the sub down the road.

Look at it like this, some people will get a AMP then buy a Pre/Pro down the road due to cost. Your way of thinking is get a lesser product so that you can buy both the AMP and Pre/Pro at the same time.

AM
Precisely for the reason that Doug stated -- so you don't have a gaping "hole" in the quality of your system for a while.

Assuming one is going to be using the system for HT, 60s and sub will sound much better than 100s alone, no contest, for the same price. Given that most Paradigm dealers have an upgrade program, it doesn't matter financially which route you upgrade. So you might as well go the route where your system will sound better in the interim period.

Oh, and believe it or not, I've heard of the "budget" concept. I even use it myself.

Finally received my new Studio 60s this week. Yesterday I played around with different placements, and got curious results.

I had trade a pair of Studio 20v3s for these to go with the 570 center and (future) 470 di/bi-poles. They, along with a boxy CRT Pioneer HD-RPTV, are on the short wall of my 14' x 23' non-dedicated HT room (AKA the family living room). A Rotel 1055 receiver drives all speakers.

I had chose the 60s over the 100, not only due to cost, but also because of the fact that I had trouble finding the right spot for my 20s, without a mid to upper bass boom. I figured the 60s, with twice as many ports, would give me more of a fit, and the more bass heavy 100s just wouldn't work, due to how close they would be to the rear and side walls.

What is surprising me is that the 60s aren't showing any of the same bass problems, even when backed up to the minimum 8" from the back wall, and as close as 16" from a side wall! Not only that, also the imaging doesn't seem to suffer that much when the speakers are pulled behind the front plane of the RPTV, as long as I have a couple of feet distance between speaker and TV.

So why the heck would a bookshelf speaker, with less bass response, be harder to place then a full range, with more drivers and ports?

Next I plan on trying my Aragon 8008BB power amp on the 60s. When I tried it on the 20s, the sonics were too different to use, along with the Rotel receiver driving the center. Maybe it will work together this time.

Finally received my new Studio 60s this week.

Next I plan on trying my Aragon 8008BB power amp on the 60s. When I tried it on the 20s, the sonics were too different to use, along with the Rotel receiver driving the center. Maybe it will work together this time.

Congrats on the purchase!

Please post the results of the Aragon test.

Congrats on the purchase!

Please post the results of the Aragon test.

Looks like it going to work out. :)

I have to clarify. The last time I compared the Rotel to the Aragon was when I first got the 20v3s, before I had the 570 center. The Rotel was installed in an A/V closet, driving 45' Liberty Ultra Cap 12/4 speaker cable. The Aragon was in between the speakers; hooked up to RCA to XLR converting trannys, 45' balanced cabling, and short speaker cables.

Lots of variables there, the sonics were different enough to where I didn't bother to test again when I purchased the center.

This time I skipped all the audiophool stuff, install the 8008BB in the same closet as the Rotel, and used the same Liberty cable and simple unbalanced interconnects.

We rented "The Island" for a second time last night, to test things out. When we first watched it, I had just set up the Studio 20s, and the constant bass drumming in the soundtrack made the improperly set up 20s boom their butts off!

This time the bass was tight and accurate, although I still had to turn the sub down a touch. The chase scenes and helicopter fly byes sounded fine transitioning between the L/C/Rs using the two different amps.

The Aragon doesn't have the same treble roll off as the Rotel, so I set the 60s further back from the center and adjusted the time delay on the receiver. This seems to help quite a bit. And if the 60s break in like my old 20s did, the tweeters will smooth out even more. :D

Edit 7/17: Well I switched it back to all speakers on the Rotel :( . Due to years of dealing with miss-matched speakers on miss-matched amps, I started to hear the same problems with the Aragon/Rotel combination, mainly uneven sound levels and dynamics, probably due to a miss-match of sensitivity ratings of the two amps. Guess I will be able to use the Aragon on my IB system after all...

I asked this in the home theater forum, and it almost started WWIII.

But I thought I would see what Paradigm owners say.

If you have 2 rows of seating, where do you place Paradigm ADP surrounds? I will be using the ADP 470s (to match my Studio 20s and CC470)?

Note that I am not talking about the rear surrounds in a 7.1 set-up (the back wall) -- I am ONLY talking about the side surround positioning in a 7.1 set-up (the side wall).

With 2 rows, do you pick one row and optimize the sound for that row? Or do you line up the ADPs somewhere between rows?

Note that my room will be 20 feet long. The 1st row will be at about 11 feet from the screen. The 2nd row (ears in that row), will be at roughly 15 feet.

I will use the 1st row more. So do I just put the side surrounds next to the 1st row or what?

So what do you guys do?

I'm planning the purchase of Paradigm Titans. Given various placement constraints I need to ceiling mount the rear speakers. I am going to use Omnimount 20.0s. However, due to the odd recessed channel in the back of the Paradigm Titans, the Omnimounts will be difficult to use b/c the mounting plate is wider than the channel and therefore cannot be easily attached.

Has anyone gotten the Omnimount 20.0s to work with the Titans, or does anyone know of a comparable ceiling mount that will work?

Right now I am seriously considering cutting down the width of the mounting plate with some sort of metal cutting tool, such as a dremel.

Any advice on how to solve this problem?

-Eric

I have been using Studio 20s v2 as my LRC for about six years and I am a happy camper except for periodic bouts of upgradeitis. The only issue I have on my existing 20s is that on some material they can a smidge bright for my taste. I wonder if that has been addressed on vr3. In any case I am going to upgrade my 2.1 system which is now Paradigm Mini Monitors and a Rocket UFW-10 sub. The Studio 20 v3 is on my short list of speakers to replace the Mini Monitors. Has anyone had a chance to compare v2 to the v3 or can comment on the audible differences between the two versions?

Many Thanks,
Nick

If you have 2 rows of seating, where do you place Paradigm ADP surrounds? I will be using the ADP 470s (to match my Studio 20s and CC470)?

Note that I am not talking about the rear surrounds in a 7.1 set-up (the back wall) -- I am ONLY talking about the side surround positioning in a 7.1 set-up (the side wall).

With 2 rows, do you pick one row and optimize the sound for that row? Or do you line up the ADPs somewhere between rows?

Note that my room will be 20 feet long. The 1st row will be at about 11 feet from the screen. The 2nd row (ears in that row), will be at roughly 15 feet.

I will use the 1st row more. So do I just put the side surrounds next to the 1st row or what?

So what do you guys do?
With bi/dipoles, definitely put them next to the primary listening row. Ideal listening area is in their "null field", straight out from the speaker, since the drivers are firing to the sides. With 7.1, the rears should mesh well enough with the sides to provide an acceptable listening experience for the 2nd row. With direct radiating speakers, I would put them between rows, slightly closer to the primary row.

With bi/dipoles, definitely put them next to the primary listening row. Ideal listening area is in their "null field", straight out from the speaker, since the drivers are firing to the sides. With 7.1, the rears should mesh well enough with the sides to provide an acceptable listening experience for the 2nd row. With direct radiating speakers, I would put them between rows, slightly closer to the primary row.


Note that I will be using direct speakers for the back surrounds (Atoms). Do you still think the 2nd row will have an acceptable listening experience?

I'm wondering if the 2nd row will hear pans going from back to front (like a helicopter fly over correctly)? Or will it sound weird?

Monitor 9 Fronts
Monitor 3 Rears
CC370 Center
Sony A/V Reciver (90watts) (I will upgrade this soon)
PW-2100 sub
Yamaha DVD-S657

My current plan is to keep the sony for my movies and tv, but get a NAD C162 and a NADC272, and a Yamaha CD Changer. Plug the 9's into the c162 and have a true, dedicated, seperate audio system. Of couse, the Monitor 9's will stay as my fronts for av as well.

Note that I will be using direct speakers for the back surrounds (Atoms). Do you still think the 2nd row will have an acceptable listening experience?

I'm wondering if the 2nd row will hear pans going from back to front (like a helicopter fly over correctly)? Or will it sound weird?
It depends how far the 2nd row is from the back wall. In your case, 5 ft should be enough room to disperse sufficiently. The only way to know for sure, though, is to put them in your room and try them out.

Anyone care to recommend a good setup for a rectangular shaped room in 5.1? Measurments would be 15x25 most likely with the setup forming a square within the rectangular room. Ive demoed paradigm studio speakers and series 100's but it was all in ideal settings and my apartment is hardly ideal. Therefore i figure i would trust those using them more. Im after clarity and not loudness. The reason I ask is that my first inclination would be to overkill and go for biggest best when that would most likely end up not being optimal for my room. Fire away, any response is appreciated.

Anyone care to recommend a good setup for a rectangular shaped room in 5.1? Measurments would be 15x25 most likely with the setup forming a square within the rectangular room. Ive demoed paradigm studio speakers and series 100's but it was all in ideal settings and my apartment is hardly ideal. Therefore i figure i would trust those using them more. Im after clarity and not loudness. The reason I ask is that my first inclination would be to overkill and go for biggest best when that would most likely end up not being optimal for my room. Fire away, any response is appreciated.

Your room is about the same size as mine. I've been extremely satisfied with the following set-up:

L/R - Paradigm Signature S4s
C - Paradigm Signature C3
Sur - Paradigm Signature ADPs
Sub - Velodyne DD15

A cost effective alternative:
L/R - Paradigm Studio 40s or 60s
C - Paradigm Studio 570
Sur - Paradigm Studio ADPs
Sub - Velodyne DD12 or Paradigm Seismic 12 or Paradigm Servo 15

Cheers,

- Tim

I need your expertise to help me justifying update my Denon 3805 to Outlaw 990/7125 comb.
Room: 14X26
Speakers:
L/R - Paradigm Studio 40s
C - Paradigm Studio 570
Sur - Paradigm Studio ADPs
Back Sur-Studio 20's
Sub - Paradigm Servo 15
70/30 music/Movies
Is the Outlaw 990/7125 worth the money to update? I like the current system for the movies.
Also want to setup a two channel system with Sig. S4, any recommendation for the receiver or pre/amp. ?

I asked this in the home theater forum, and it almost started WWIII.

But I thought I would see what Paradigm owners say.

If you have 2 rows of seating, where do you place Paradigm ADP surrounds? I will be using the ADP 470s (to match my Studio 20s and CC470)?

Note that I am not talking about the rear surrounds in a 7.1 set-up (the back wall) -- I am ONLY talking about the side surround positioning in a 7.1 set-up (the side wall).

With 2 rows, do you pick one row and optimize the sound for that row? Or do you line up the ADPs somewhere between rows?

Note that my room will be 20 feet long. The 1st row will be at about 11 feet from the screen. The 2nd row (ears in that row), will be at roughly 15 feet.

I will use the 1st row more. So do I just put the side surrounds next to the 1st row or what?

So what do you guys do?
Here is my room and my setup
It works like a charm
Don't forget you always set your main speakers to the primary listening position
and this should be applied to all the speakers.
So what I would do is to place ADP's about 1' behind front row
Hope this helps

Here is my room and my setup
It works like a charm
Don't forget you always set your main speakers to the primary listening position
and this should be applied to all the speakers.
So what I would do is to place ADP's about 1' behind front row
Hope this helps

If the ADPs are 1 foot behind the front row, is that correct for having the front row in the null part of the ADPs?

I thought that you are supposed to place the ADPs directly beside the row, not behind? Now I'm confused -- directly beside or 1 foot back?

Or is 1 foot back only because there is a 2nd row?

I need your expertise to help me justifying update my Denon 3805 to Outlaw 990/7125 comb.
Room: 14X26
Speakers:
L/R - Paradigm Studio 40s
C - Paradigm Studio 570
Sur - Paradigm Studio ADPs
Back Sur-Studio 20's
Sub - Paradigm Servo 15
70/30 music/Movies
Is the Outlaw 990/7125 worth the money to update? I like the current system for the movies.
Also want to setup a two channel system with Sig. S4, any recommendation for the receiver or pre/amp. ?
And your budget is ?

I need your expertise to help me justifying update my Denon 3805 to Outlaw 990/7125 comb.
Room: 14X26
Speakers:
L/R - Paradigm Studio 40s
C - Paradigm Studio 570
Sur - Paradigm Studio ADPs
Back Sur-Studio 20's
Sub - Paradigm Servo 15
70/30 music/Movies
Is the Outlaw 990/7125 worth the money to update? I like the current system for the movies.
Also want to setup a two channel system with Sig. S4, any recommendation for the receiver or pre/amp. ?
What is it that you feel you're lacking? That seems like a fine setup to me. The 7125 isn't going to give you much more than a 3805, and the receiver specs are similar to the 990 (can't remember the differences off the top of my head). I wouldn't have any problems with that setup... possibly another sub to balance out room response. Speaking of.. is the room treated? If not, that's your next step, IMO.

So I got an SVS 25-31PCplus a month ago and now the rest of my current system needs upgrading. Here's what I have right now beyond the SVS.

Onkyo Reciever, 4 yrs old, not great.
Polk audio speakers
Sony 34" HDTV
Mac Mini Media Center (DVI)
Toshiba HD-a1 HD-DVD player (HDMI)
Xbox 360 (Component)
Comcast Dual Tuner HD Cable Box (HDMI/Component)

So you can see I have lots of HD inputs....xbox, hddvd, cable, mac mini. And the Sony TV has one DVI in and two Component in.

So I need a new reciever to manage the HD video and the audio. And I also want to upgrade the speakers too.

After a month of casual research I'm leaning towards getting a Denon 2807 since it has the HD inputs and is a good value.

For speakers I'm looking at Paradigm Cinema 330 for LCR and something smaller in the same family for the rears. Or is there a better choice for that price range?

Then in two years or so I'll be looking to replace the TV. Right now I'm happy with the HD on the CRT Tube.

So I'd love to hear some input on my upgrade selections. I'd love some opinions. Or some owner reviews of 330's. Or like I said....any thoughts on better options.

Thanks!!

So you can see I have lots of HD inputs....xbox, hddvd, cable, mac mini. And the Sony TV has one DVI in and two Component in.

So I need a new reciever to manage the HD video and the audio. And I also want to upgrade the speakers too.

After a month of casual research I'm leaning towards getting a Denon 2807 since it has the HD inputs and is a good value.
Since you have four HDMI/DVI devices, the 2 inputs on the 2807 is obviously not going to be enough, so you're going to have to compromise somewhere. Either you use two component inputs and have the receiver convert, or you can get an HDMI switcher (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hdmi+switcher&btnG=Google+Search) like the Gefen. It's relatively expensive, but you may be able to find it cheaper used. It would also allow you to get a cheaper receiver since you wouldn't be limited to those with digital video switching. You're not going to find one with 4 inputs without going to something like a $5K+ model anyway.

I was going to recommend two of the four sources to use via component video, but all of the are great candidates for digital video. The mac obviously, and the other three are all HD.. not something I'd choose to compromise by using component. Just IMO..

Seems a slow night for the Paradigm thread. Anybody care to take a minute or two and tell what, if any, are the differences in sound between the Studio 20s v2 and Studio 20s v3? I own the 20s v2 and I am thinking about 20s v3 for a 2.1 music system if the high end is a tad less bright on the 20s v3.

Thanks, Nick

IMO, the cost of trading in for the next version of the same speaker in the Paradigm line isn't worth it. Maybe if you could do it for <$50, in which case you should bring your speakers (since they're small) to the dealer and compare before "upgrading".

IMO, the cost of trading in for the next version of the same speaker in the Paradigm line isn't worth it. Maybe if you could do it for <$50, in which case you should bring your speakers (since they're small) to the dealer and compare before "upgrading".

Thanks for the response miltimj. I am not replacing my existing 20s, but I am adding new speakers to replace the Mini Monitors in in my 2.1 music system. The question is most about how bright the new 20s are. Are the v3 20s perchance less bright than v2 20s? If I were told that they were a bit less bright then it would be worth dragging the old 20s to the dealer for a comparison.

Nick

Ok so i went to the local paradigmn dealer and picked out some studio 60's and adp-470's for rears. i plan on using a b&w nautilus htm2 center that i already own, also already own a sub.

My q is the dealer didnt have any 100's though i auditioned 20's 40's and 60's. Each sounded incrementaly better to my ear as far as depth and range. Would the 100's be even better in a small room or are they too much? What are the audible differences between the speakers? I know the 100 has a true midrange driver and more bass drivers but as far as low volume audible clarity will it make a big difference. Both with be v3. thanks

If you have a small room, the 60's should be more than enough as you need a bigger area to let the 100's shine. Altho you never mentioned a sub, I assume you have one already? And altho its been discussed heavily, I'm in the camp that the 100's require a fairly robust amplifier to show their true colors. So strike 2......
That being said, the 60's with a good sub should be an awesome setup.

As far as the center goes, I would recommend the CC570 and sell the B&W.....you want your front soundstage timbre matched as close as possible. Just my 2 cents.

truthly you want know without trying them in your room
it worked for me but my living room is connected to my
den and both are open to the kitchen.

Ok so i went to the local paradigmn dealer and picked out some studio 60's and adp-470's for rears. i plan on using a b&w nautilus htm2 center that i already own, also already own a sub.

My q is the dealer didnt have any 100's though i auditioned 20's 40's and 60's. Each sounded incrementaly better to my ear as far as depth and range. Would the 100's be even better in a small room or are they too much? What are the audible differences between the speakers? I know the 100 has a true midrange driver and more bass drivers but as far as low volume audible clarity will it make a big difference. Both with be v3. thanks

I use the studio 60 v2 in my 13x20x8 and I never feel the need to turn on my Velodyne DD-12 during 2 channel listening.
Since you said your room is "small", you prob dont need the 100s and they will actually sound congested and too much bass.

If you have a small room, the 60's should be more than enough as you need a bigger area to let the 100's shine. Altho you never mentioned a sub, I assume you have one already? And altho its been discussed heavily, I'm in the camp that the 100's require a fairly robust amplifier to show their true colors. So strike 2......
That being said, the 60's with a good sub should be an awesome setup.

As far as the center goes, I would recommend the CC570 and sell the B&W.....you want your front soundstage timbre matched as close as possible. Just my 2 cents.

i really love the nautilus, it would have to bother me before i sold it. My dealer would take the swap though. I just really like the way the B&W looks and performs. Also i find the paradigm and b&w sound very similar so far. Whpo knows when i actually get it home and set up though.... My room is so weird :(

I agree with others' recent posts... Save the money and stick with the 60s.

Went back out and listend to speakers again, and the Wife and I are going to go with the 60's, instead of the 100's....Since our room is not big, and upon further research I had reservations about using 100's in a medium-small room. I have a question for those that might have used the following or if you have a opinion...would you use a Yammy 2600+amp for the Setup or a Rotel 1067(AMP down the road soon)...Since I have read were the Yammy can be bright when the volume is turned up. Since I like to listen to music and HT at moderate to high levels when the kids are not in the room.

BTW, I cant wait to purchase these speakers so that I can move on to something else! All I think about is what to buy, is that going to be good enough, is it going to not work blah blah.

AM

BTW, I cant wait to purchase these speakers so that I can move on to something else! All I think about is what to buy, is that going to be good enough, is it going to not work blah blah.
AM

I can relate to what you are speaking of. I certainly have experienced it. Some folks though get stuck in continuouly looking for the next great upgrade. For the past six years I have had three Studio 20s as my fronts, a Hsu VTF2 as my sub and Mini Monitors as surrounds. I love the sound of my system, and for me, being able to "forget" about equipment and just enjoy music is where it's at.

Congrats on your new system, I hope you enjoy it for years to come.

I will now get off my soap box.

Regards, Nick

I do Agree with that
But S4 is only 2 1/2 way speaker
ADP are 3 way and they have better base response than S4
They need to make it a true 3 way speaker and not a 2 1/2 like Studio 40, 60 and S4
You loose in Mid and Low level response. You can hear a huge difference when you switch from S8 to S4. It fills like there is no more base.
S6 has to be a 4 speaker setup
So here is what I think S8 should be 3 1/2 way, like C5
S6 should be 3 way tower speaker with same speaker setup like C3 with one change 7" midrange driver and front vented
S4 should stay the same and there should be a C1 which should be 2 1/2 or 2 way to go along with S4
Now you will be talking about some nice speaker setups.
Maybe we should write a letter to Paradigm ?

There is a mention of a 'C1' at CES2006. There is a picture of it on guidetohometheater
but I can't submit a URL yet. You can go to the website and then go to

features/106ces2/index4.html

The c1 picture is about 1/3 of the way down the page.

I haven't seen any more info on the C1 anywhere. I also would like to know what speaker is next to the C1. It looks like a Cinema Series, but the drivers appear to be different.

Id just like to say thanks for the help guys and here is my set-up i decided on.
Studio 60's v3
adp470's
cc-570
Servo-15 sub
Now that i have it all home im waiting on some sanus sf30b stands for the adp-470's and i have to hunt down a solution for the 570 as that speaker is bigger than i thought it would be (an inch too tall and about an inch too deep for my curent set up). So far all ive done is look at them but a review will come when i get eveything set up:)

and i have to hunt down a solution for the 570 as that speaker is bigger than i thought it would be (an inch too tall and about an inch too deep for my curent set up).

I've been looking at a 56" DLP RPTV for the future, and am also planning on upgrading to a CC570.

Can anybody point me to a TV stand that will accommodate the CC570, which is 9" tall?

jdg

i use a bello think racks and stands still have them
model i have discontinued.

I've been looking at a 56" DLP RPTV for the future, and am also planning on upgrading to a CC570.

Can anybody point me to a TV stand that will accommodate the CC570, which is 9" tall?

jdg


If you want to go the cheap route, the Ikea Oppli stand is what I am using for my 56" Toshiba and the CC570. You have to leave 1 of the dividers out but it is more than strong enough without it. That gives you an end section to put your cable box and a dvd player as well - freeing up more room on your component rack for another amp or 2.

At least it did for me ;)

I've been looking at a 56" DLP RPTV for the future, and am also planning on upgrading to a CC570.

Can anybody point me to a TV stand that will accommodate the CC570, which is 9" tall?

jdg

BDI Vector 9524 holds my Denon 4806 and 3910 on the bottom shelf, CC570 on the middle, and TV on the top.

I have the little rubber feet on the front of the 570 and removed them on the rear to give it a very slight angle.

my getto solution was to use wooden stands under my tv and just sat the CC-570 in front of the tv on my existing stand. The thing is huge and i see no other solution besides mounting it over my existing tv from behind off the wall. As it stands right now the 570 is overpowering the 60's. I think setting it farther back would be beneficial in correcting this (ie against the wall).

What is it that you feel you're lacking? That seems like a fine setup to me. The 7125 isn't going to give you much more than a 3805, and the receiver specs are similar to the 990 (can't remember the differences off the top of my head). I wouldn't have any problems with that setup... possibly another sub to balance out room response. Speaking of.. is the room treated? If not, that's your next step, IMO.

Thanks a lot for your response.
I haven't do any accoustic treatment yet. This is my first HT room. Any suggestions where to start?

Thanks a lot for your response.
I haven't do any accoustic treatment yet. This is my first HT room. Any suggestions where to start?

Auralex foam are a relatively cheap alternative if you dont mind the "professiona; studio" look.
Lots of other choices and the sky is the limit as to how much you want/can spend.

I have 2" Auralex studiofoam wedge on the walls. Also has echo trap and bass trap in 4 corners.

I traded in my cc-470 for a cc-570 last weekend and so far i'm impressed! The 570 sounds great with movie dialog and wonderful with multichannel music. I'm glad that my dealer allows trading up. :D

I want to make a couple of comments regarding room treatments. I spent many hours researching acoustics here on this forum. One really good place to study is http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=255432. Anyway, after countless hours I determined that I was in over my head. I contacted bpape, who is a regular contributor here at AVS. He has a company that can be found here http://sensiblesoundsolutions.com/ Anyway, I have a multipurpose room thats 22"x12'' with one wall that has an 11" opening that goes to the downstairs as well as the bedrooms. I wish it was dedicated, but the wife put her foot down on enclosing the room. I have Studio 100v3 L&R, 570v3 center, adp470 side surrounds and studio 20v3 back channels and a servo 15 sub. I am powering my system with the Denon 5805 that has Audyssey room correction capability. I have never been completely satisfied with this set up! I tweaked speaker placements, and fiddled endlessly with the Audyssey room correction software, downloading a firmware fix for issues with Audyssey, and numerous recalibrations using different mic placements and I just was not satisfied. I finally contacted Bryan at Sensible Sound Solutions and purchased a room analysis. He made recommendations for room treatments that included bass traps in the 2 back corners of the room that go floor to ceiling with a 2 ft face, followed by 9 other panels varying in size from 18"x48"x2", to 6"x48"x2". He suggested the proper locations to install them, and I was able to choose my choice of fabric color, black, and after getting the wife on board ordered them . I installed them Tuesday night, and recalibrated my system last night (audyssey) and WOW!! I can not emphasize enough how much of a difference this has made. I doubt a 10k electronics upgrade be it speakers or amplification could have made such a difference. I've seen it posted time and again that we listen as much to the room, if not more, than our gear, and that is so true. I highly recommend room treatments. This more than anything else has SIGNIFICANTLY improved my listening experience.

He made recommendations for room treatments that included bass traps in the 2 back corners of the room that go floor to ceiling with a 2 ft face, followed by 9 other panels varying in size from 18"x48"x2", to 6"x48"x2". He suggested the proper locations to install them, and I was able to choose my choice of fabric color, black, and after getting the wife on board ordered them . I installed them Tuesday night, and recalibrated my system last night (audyssey) and WOW!! I can not emphasize enough how much of a difference this has made.

But you forgot the most important part. How much did all of this cost -- including the parts and recommendations and labor?

I dont know if price posting is allowed, but I can tell you this. I spent $300.00 more on the anaylsis and treatments than I spent on my studio 20's!! He is very reasonable, and extermely helpful. Hope that helps.

I dont know if price posting is allowed, but I can tell you this. I spent $300.00 more on the anaylsis and treatments than I spent on my studio 20's!! He is very reasonable, and extermely helpful. Hope that helps.

You can't price specific discrete components that can be bought in stores -- but you can tell the total price you spent for hiring someone and then buying the materials and the labor.

Sounds like about $1,100 though.

1200.00 total.

Now you need to post pictures of what the room treatments look like :)

Now you need to post pictures of what the room treatments look like :)
I can do that. I will check in tonight when I get home from work, fair enough?

Strange question -what determins a speakers Frequency Response-is it the crossover in the speaker ?

Is their a website that has a listing of the Canadian MSRP's of Paradigms....I know about Brads, but was interested in the Canadian. I've been to a dealer in Canada and they didnt have the MSRP's list on the Products like most place's...So any help with that would be greatly apperciated.

AM

That's a great success story, Joe! I was actually going to respond with a link to the Acoustical Treatments Master Thread as well... And a recommendation for Bryan Pape, based on the many things I've read from others who have used his help in their theaters. Glad to hear it worked out! Looking forward to pics as well... :)

Strange question -what determins a speakers Frequency Response-is it the crossover in the speaker ?
Not a strange question at all. Each driver (i.e. a given model) has different frequency response characteristics. They are usually measured 1m away, with 1W of power (shown as 1W/1m). Obviously a 15" subwoofer will be have a high response in the double-digits, whereas it will be horrible at 5KHz. That is where the crossovers come in. Each driver "rolls off" toward the edges of the range it can cover. It should ideally be flat across its primary range, and evenly taper off at some steady rate (not necessarily linear).

The driver that will cover an adjacent range (e.g. a tweeter) should have a similar (but opposite) rolloff. Where they intersect is typically (though not always) used as the crossover frequency. The crossover limits what audio gets sent (based on frequency) to each driver, but instead of cutting it off at an exact frequency, it rolls off as well (similar to the frequency response (FR) of the driver). Even though there's a combined "dip" where the two drivers crossover (they're both sloping down, but opposite directions), the fact that both of them are reproducing the sound at the crossover frequency gives it an increase in SPL/volume, which brings the FR up overall, creating a flatter response.

Note that a flat FR is not the end all of a quality speaker. You can have a completely flat FR from 20Hz-20KHz for two different speakers and they can sound completely different. In other words, have different characteristics, such as "tinny", "harsh", "smooth", etc.. The FR just measures the loudness at a given frequency (or range of freqs).

I hope that helps, and doesn't confuse you more...

Need some opinions:

Father-in-law was looking for a budget system for new construction (maybe $25 - $50 per speaker :eek: ) but got that pushed up significantly. I wired for 7.1, but was forced to use ceiling mounts for all surrounds. I was considering getting the CS-60R-SM with dual drivers offset 60 degrees and firing the surrounds front and back (like a poor man's dipole).

2 questions:

1) Would you use the standard CS-60R instead?

2) If I use the "SM" and wire for a single channel on each speaker (dropping it to 4 ohm) - can I still get away with an off-the-shelf budget Pioneer 7.1 receiver having 4-4ohm surrounds and 3-8 ohm speakers LCR....or will it have a problem driving that type of setup?

That's a great success story, Joe! I was actually going to respond with a link to the Acoustical Treatments Master Thread as well... And a recommendation for Bryan Pape, based on the many things I've read from others who have used his help in their theaters. Glad to hear it worked out! Looking forward to pics as well... :)

Hi Tim. I have read many of your posts and I'm impressed with your willingness to help so many of us. I didn't get the time to take pictures last night, so I'm going to post them this weekend. It just amazes me how much those room treatments helped. It took me quite some time to get my wife to go along with it. Now I find that I can't wait to go home each day to just listen! Keep up the good work Tim.

Thanks miltimj
My reason for asking was I am a bit dissipointed with the Lack Of Lows form my 40's
I was looking @ the specs & thought I should get Low Frequency
Extension @ 36 HZ
But I should be looking at the Frequency Response On-Axis (0°) ±2 dB from 62 Hz - 22 kHz
Off-Axis (30°) ±2 dB from 62 Hz - 20 kHz
And the 40's start to roll off @ 62
I was comparing them to a pair of SA 35s But they go down lower 46Hz
On-Axis (0°) ±2dB from 46Hz - 22kHz
Off-Axis (30°) ±2dB from 46Hz - 20kHz

2) If I use the "SM" and wire for a single channel on each speaker (dropping it to 4 ohm) - can I still get away with an off-the-shelf budget Pioneer 7.1 receiver having 4-4ohm surrounds and 3-8 ohm speakers LCR....or will it have a problem driving that type of setup?
I'm not sure about your first question as I don't use wall mounts, but for your second question, the answer is that it depends on the exact reciever. Most likely, however, it can only handle 8 ohms, possibly 6. The fact that the LCRs are only 8, and surround channels typically have much less demand on them, it may work to use them in a 4 ohm setup. If you can find an impedance response curve, it may help your decision. By that, I mean that the 4 ohm spec is likely the low end, and it may exhibit 6-8+ ohm impedance at 80% of frequencies.

If your father-in-law is not going to be listening at high levels, it may work out fine. I'd recommend finding a receiver with pre-outs for future flexibility in adding an external amp, which typically can handle 4 ohms without a problem, or even lower.

Thanks miltimj
My reason for asking was I am a bit dissipointed with the Lack Of Lows form my 40's
I was looking @ the specs & thought I should get Low Frequency
Extension @ 36 HZ
But I should be looking at the Frequency Response On-Axis (0°) ±2 dB from 62 Hz - 22 kHz
Off-Axis (30°) ±2 dB from 62 Hz - 20 kHz
And the 40's start to roll off @ 62
I was comparing them to a pair of SA 35s But they go down lower 46Hz
On-Axis (0°) ±2dB from 46Hz - 22kHz
Off-Axis (30°) ±2dB from 46Hz - 20kHz
I wouldn't expect a huge low end response from speakers simply because they say they go down to 62Hz. Those same drivers are likely trying to reproduce 3,000 Hz at the same time they're trying to reproduce 50Hz. You're not going to get a very nice response overall with that situation. It's also why it's often recommended (that I've seen) to crossover your drivers/speakers at least one octave from its Fs (62Hz on axis for you). An octave is a 1/2 or double of the frequency. That's also a minimum. So it would be recommended to crossover at about 120Hz. Again, that's ideal, and we all need to make compromises. All that matters in the end is what sounds best to you.

Just don't expect big bass response with 40s and no sub. There's not enough cabinet volume for it, and the drivers can't effortlessly handle that large of a range of frequencies (about 6 octaves).

Wow Crossover point @ 120 not even the norm of 80

80 is just what THX happens to recommend as a guideline, but it's obviously completely dependent on your speakers and room. Just as the crossover recommendation of an octave difference is a guideline. By the way, I'm not necessarily recommending you set the crossover at 120Hz; it's just for the sake of argument/example, why the 40s seem like they go low based on their specs, but in reality shouldn't be used near that low.

I do not understand the
Low Frequency
Extension @ 36 HZ
is that how low they will go OR is it 63 Hz ?

Ah, I didn't notice the LFE @ 36Hz the first time. So yes, 80Hz should work fine it seems. My point was more that you shouldn't expect low bass extension to 36Hz, despite the specifications. In other words, the 40s can reproduce down to 36Hz, but practically speaking, it won't sound its best combined with its trying to reproduce upper bass frequencies also. That goes for any mains... it's only one of many factors to compare the LFE of two mains. But the bottom line is that if you find the low end of a speaker like the 40 lacking, the simplest solution is crossing over with a speaker intended for that purpose.. a sub. :) I don't even expect much out of the LFE from my 100s.

i think the 36hz is at 10db down audible but no weight behind it.

According to the spec sheet the footnote next to 36Hz (DIN) says +/- 3dB.

read the footnote not sure i understand it says
[din 45 500 indicates -3db in a typical listening room]
cain't remember if it was soundstage or another
but it had a graph that showed it sloping off after 60 hz.

Is it within the rules to ask what a good discount would be when purchasing Paradigm speakers as long as I don't ask for actual pricing? If so, someone let me know what is realistic to get of MSRP.
THanks!

10% to 20% off MSRP usually.

20% would be great. I live in the outskirts of Dallas and there shows to be only one dealer in the whole area that is an authorized seller. ONE. As popular as Paradigm is i was certain there would be 2-3 choices. Does anyone know of any dealers that are mail order?

no mail order that i am aware of i do not believe co will allow it.
but i found if you buy a package(fr centr rr) they will usually work
you a good deal.

20% would be great. I live in the outskirts of Dallas and there shows to be only one dealer in the whole area that is an authorized seller. ONE. As popular as Paradigm is i was certain there would be 2-3 choices. Does anyone know of any dealers that are mail order?

If you used the zip code thingie at the Paradigm site to find dealers be aware that it is highly inaccurate. I live near Boston and there are at least four Paradigm dealers in the area. The zip code dealer locator showed only one of them. Perhaps a email or phone call to Paradigm might find you some other dealers, or at least let you know that there is only that one.

Nick

If you used the zip code thingie at the Paradigm site to find dealers be aware that it is highly inaccurate. I live near Boston and there are at least four Paradigm dealers in the area. The zip code dealer locator showed only one of them. Perhaps a email or phone call to Paradigm might find you some other dealers, or at least let you know that there is only that one.

Nick


You are correct about this....When I did my search I put my Zip Code and then I enterd zip codes for cities that where West and North of me, but were only about 20 minutes away from me....and I got different dealers :D

Are 40's designed for bi-wire from the ground up ?
I was looking into speaker cables & I was asking if Bi-wire was the way to go or single run with the speaker jumpers OR True bi-wire with 2 runs of cables was the best way to go & he asked
If your speaker are designed for bi-wire from the ground up they will perform better with bi-wire.
Our speaker cable is an internal bi-wire speaker cable. It is not necessary to have 2 separate runs, nor is it necessarily beneficial.
Using a jumper actually can be beneficial if the speakers are not designed from the ground up to be bi-wired.
In this case you always attach to the upper binding posts and jumper down to the lower ones.

Ant thoughts ?

bi-wiring is good business for wire companies sell more wire
run some 12awg and you have more wire than any speaker
can ask for. biamping sometimes will show an improvement.

bi-wiring is good business for wire companies sell more wire
run some 12awg and you have more wire than any speaker
can ask for. biamping sometimes will show an improvement.

What oztech said. Bi wiring makes no impact on sound nor does it improve the signal to the speaker. If you want to tinker with your system, think "room treatments".

Nick

IMHO Both bi wiring and bi amping have shown an improvement of detail in my systems. Bi amping has shown the greatest improvement sonically.

Speakers Paradigm 100 or Paradigm Signature via Arcam AVR300 or AVP700 with seperate amp.

RJ

Are 40's designed for bi-wire from the ground up ?
I was looking into speaker cables & I was asking if Bi-wire was the way to go or single run with the speaker jumpers OR True bi-wire with 2 runs of cables was the best way to go & he asked
If your speaker are designed for bi-wire from the ground up they will perform better with bi-wire.
Our speaker cable is an internal bi-wire speaker cable. It is not necessary to have 2 separate runs, nor is it necessarily beneficial.
Using a jumper actually can be beneficial if the speakers are not designed from the ground up to be bi-wired.
In this case you always attach to the upper binding posts and jumper down to the lower ones.

Ant thoughts ?
This will depend on how much do you wanna to spend
a good 10 awg wire will work better than two 16 awg wires, which will work better than single 16 AWG wire
Longer run = bigger wire that you will have to run
Small wire creates heat and increases resistance on longer runs, which reduces sound quality. biwiring with smaller wire helps, but bigger wire is a better solution

Has anyone seen or heard about any new speaker releases on the forefront from Paradigm?

millenia 200 and the outdoor rock speaker

Has anyone seen or heard about any new speaker releases on the forefront from Paradigm?
Signature C1

Back in post 1606, I provided a link to a picture of the C1 at CES. In the picture there is another speaker next to the C1. I was wondering if anyone knew what speaker that was. It looks like a Cinema type speaker but with Signature-looking drivers.

I'm ready to replace my HTM7
last time C3 or C5 for S4
I have allot of room for Centre Channel It will be located 10' in front of sofa
THX

i would have to demo them but like all sigs
how culd you go wrong think the c5 was
meant to go with the s8.

i would have to demo them but like all sigs
how culd you go wrong think the c5 was
meant to go with the s8.
Isn't it?
I think it may overpower S4's

Isn't it?
I think it may overpower S4's

The C5 won't overpower the S4's as long as you set you levels properly, but it will have greater top end output capability. In other words it can play louder than the S4's. I use the C3 in a 23 x 13 x 9 room and have no concerns with output.

The C5 won't overpower the S4's as long as you set you levels properly, but it will have greater top end output capability. In other words it can play louder than the S4's. I use the C3 in a 23 x 13 x 9 room and have no concerns with output.
My room is 22 x 10.5 x 8
C3 may be better fit

just curious what sub are you using.

just curious what sub are you using.
DD12

I'm wondering if an 8x10x8 room is too small for the S8?


Thanks.

I'm wondering if an 8x10x8 room is too small for the S8?


Thanks.
they sound real good with a 2 to 2.5 foot space around them that can eat up
room space quick but as always i have seen speakers that should not have
worked in a room and they did and the other way around each room is different.

So I would be looking at placing them six feet apart, about 1' from
the side walls, 2' from the front walls, and sitting about 6' away.

I actually have not had a chance to audition them so I don't have
a feel for how that would work. I owned the S2 before, but I wanted
more bass.

they definitly have more midbass and low bass
see if dealer will let you demo them. they sound
awesome they just sound better with some room
around them but without trying them in said
room its a guess.

Funny thing is, the dealers in my area don't stock them,
It's expensive to carry they say. But my good sense tells
me to look at the S4.

Hey Guys,

Thank you for all of the input in the past.

Here is where I am at with my room.

Recap:

My room is 17 x 12 x 8

As it turns out we are going to just have 1 row of seating and it has to be about 10 feet from the front wall.

My set up to this point is going to be:

Front L/R: Studio 40's
Center: CC-570
Sub: Martin Logan Grotto

Surrounds: ADP-470

Now this is where I need some help.

Due to the layout and rear speakers that have to be wall mounted (Cannot be floor standing).. I will have 7 feet behind the listening area.

Options:

1. Should I go with ADP-470's? (or are they too far behind to hear a di-pole)

2. Should I look into a direct rad. speaker due to the distance?

3. Should I do in-ceiling speaker mounted 3-4 feet behind listening area pointing straight down?

4. Should I do ceiling mounted 3-4 feet behind listening area on a ceiling speaker bracket angled towards listening area.


If anyone has ran into this please let me know.

Kermie what about this:
What about cc-570 for back and use adp-470 for sides

Funny thing is, the dealers in my area don't stock them,
It's expensive to carry they say. But my good sense tells
me to look at the S4.
I went through the same thing
ended up with S4s and they are great
If you like base you will need a Sub to go with them

I went through the same thing
ended up with S4s and they are great
If you like base you will need a Sub to go with them

I may very well go that route. I don't want that over-powering bass,
I saw an article on how to do a good sub sat setup awhile ago.

30HZ should be good enough, in a small room.

An FYI. I recently purchased a Rocket UFW10 on sale for $399. A great tight, sealed musical sub. Plays pretty flat down to about 28Hz or so if I recall correctly the numbers correctly. If it's still on sale it's a terrific value.

Nick

Kermie what about this:
What about cc-570 for back and use adp-470 for sides

Are you saying a 6.1 system??

Are you saying a 6.1 system??
Yes just an idea
A direct firing speaker will be OK on the back of the room, and it will give you a nice complete 6.1 system

here's my setup:
studio 100's
cc 570
adp 470

found a store in jersey that's not carrying paradigm anymore and i bought all the above for 2400!!!

i think that's probably the best price on the planet.


have a carver tfm-35x amp for the 100's running 350x2 paid 400

and i'm running a pioneer elite vsx-80txv paid 450

i really can't wait to listen to this setup!!!

here's my setup:
studio 100's
cc 570
adp 470

found a store in jersey that's not carrying paradigm anymore and i bought all the above for 2400!!!

i think that's probably the best price on the planet.




Did he gift wrap them???? :)

I'm wondering if an 8x10x8 room is too small for the S8?


Thanks.

8'x10' ??? Yep if thats not a typo, then for sure its too small a room for the S8. Even the S2 will fill a room that size more than adequate.

8'x10' ??? Yep if thats not a typo, then for sure its too small a room for the S8. Even the S2 will fill a room that size more than adequate.

I figured I might be Nuts :) I guess I can go with the S4, can acquire those
faster, less $$ to save up :) I sold my S2's awhile back because they were too
small for my LR where I'm living now. We are purchasing a house now and
I'll be able to have my own room finally!!!

put them in the original boxes for me though! :)

put them in the original boxes for me though! :)
nice

I figured I might be Nuts :) I guess I can go with the S4, can acquire those
faster, less $$ to save up :) I sold my S2's awhile back because they were too
small for my LR where I'm living now. We are purchasing a house now and
I'll be able to have my own room finally!!!
what size room in the new house it would be ashame to buy again if the
room is large and can handle it.

Guys,

I just ordered a new paradigm setup:
Fronts: Monitor 7
Surrounds: ADP 370
Center: CC 370
Sub: need help on:

The dealer recommends the new UltraCube 10 over the PW2100.

If space isn't an issue would you take the new UltraCube10 sub or the PW2100. This is for 80% movies, 20% music. Room is 14x12. I have until tomorrow to decide. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Robert.

what size room in the new house it would be ashame to buy again if the
room is large and can handle it.


Well I have two options. There are two rooms side by side. on is 10x12 and one is 8x10 approximately. I can knock down the wall between the two and have a room large enough for whatever I want. However I would very much like to have a room for myself. So the plan is to have the larger room be the HT/family room and the smaller room be my office/listening room.

but if you remove that wall man what you could put in
there without compromising then you could look at the s8
and more not to mention a possible 7.1 config.

but if you remove that wall man what you could put in
there without compromising then you could look at the s8
and more not to mention a possible 7.1 config.


I know.. I know. But The WAF factor is my big problem.

She likes the look of The XT4's so when I mentioned selling
them for the S8 and the big room option I got the look :)
So for peace sake I have to comprise.

when i read these it makes me appreciate my wife
a lot more she is a big movie and music fan anything
within the budget that will improve those i get the
you ain't bought it yet grin.

I get "And where are you going to put that" Took awhile to settle on the XT's.
I wanted a basement, but I guess that wasn't meant to be :(

Hey GregLett what dealer are you using ?
PM me I have a great guy in NYC

Just sent PM

So what's the general consensus on the Reference inwalls? We've got Studio 100 v3 and 570 v3 up front and while I'd prefer the ADP-470's or even Studio 20's for rears, the WAF leans toward inwalls. What's the opinion on the SA-30 vs the SA-35? They'll be spaced apart about 7' and about 5' directly behind the sweet spot. Our local dealer doesn't have either speaker for audition, so I'm looking for owner/listener reviews...FWIW, we've got a Servo so the bass isn't an issue...:)

Thanks,

Jason

i like the 20's in the rear but i have about 75 each sacd and
dvd-a so multichannel music is high on my list and with the
new hd disc with improved audio or so promised around the
corner wanted to go as big as room permitted i also run the
100,570 combo upfront.

I have inwalls for surrounds and backs. Studio 40 front, cc-470 center SA-30 surrounds SA-25 Rears, Seismic 10 sub. All in a 12x25x7' room.

The inwalls seem to work very well with the Studios.

Currently I'm using a Denon 3805 as a pre-processor and NAD T973 to power all 7 channels, but I am planning on switching to using the Denon to power the Surrounds and Backs, and use 6 channels of the NAD to bi-amp the fronts and center.

Pardigm owner for 8 years, now. I own V. 1 Monitor 7s and am hoping to upgrade to Studio 20s one of these days. I have to get my son out of college or out of the house before I can start thinking about any upgrades, though.

i can honestly say my speaker upgraditis has been
resolved after buying the studios in order to beat
this i will have to spend a lot more money and i don't
see that happening.

...have about 75 each sacd and
dvd-a...
Did they make that many of them? :D

I'd love to have that kind of MC library...[envy]

J.

they made a lot more just trying to find them is getting scarce.

I have a dedicated room for home theater and audio. I run a Denon AVR-3806 receiver with Paradigm:

Studio 100's for mains
Studio CC-570 center channel
ADP-470 surrounds (2 pairs of surrounds)
Seismic 12 subwoofer

I could't be hapier with the sound. This setup sounds just sweet with music and movies.

Greg

Nice set up gsearles, is the 3806 enough power for the 100's?
I think My 40's could use more power then my 3805 has ~

See my post above re current setup. I did notice an improvement with the NAD's 140 WPC on the 40s. but not completely overwhelming. I guess I am still debating about the bi-amping.

See my post above re current setup. I did notice an improvement with the NAD's 140 WPC on the 40s. but not completely overwhelming. I guess I am still debating about the bi-amping.
i looked back at the test and 7 channels driven the 3805 puts out 77 watts
so in order to gain a lot more impact or significant increase in volume level
to the tune of a 5db increase it would take somewhere around 225watts
a channel not sure what you are looking for cleaner or more of it.

I have a dedicated room for home theater and audio. I run a Denon AVR-3806 receiver with Paradigm:

Studio 100's for mains
Studio CC-570 center channel
ADP-470 surrounds (2 pairs of surrounds)
Seismic 12 subwoofer

I could't be hapier with the sound. This setup sounds just sweet with music and movies.

Greg

Greg-
Your set-up is similar to what I am thinking about, except that I am leaning toward only a 5.1 due to room restrictions...and I am thinking of ONE pair of surrounds, of the Studio 20's (in lieu of ADP-470's). Thoughts? Also, I may go down to Studio 60's (L&R) as the listening area is tight/close. I am considering the Denon AVR-3806 or the 4306 (120 or 130 wpc).
Oh, are you running the 100's and the 570 on "large" or "small?"

Has anyone heard the new Millenia™ 200's yet. My wife is pushing for small bookself plasma friendly, but the new Millenia 200's would sound much better.

I'm in the process of slowly equipping my 7.1 HT now...

Have:

Receiver - Denon 3806
DVD Player - Denon 1920
CRT Projector - Sony VPH-1270Q


Yet to acquire:

Fronts - Paradigm Studio 60's
Center - Paradigm Studio CC-570
Surrounds - Paradigm Studio ADP-470's
Sub - SVS PB12-Plus

If anyone comes across a good deal on the speakers listed above, I'd truly appreciate a response.

Thanks!

Has anyone heard the new Millenia™ 200's yet.friendly speaker. My wife is pushing for small bookself plasma friendly, but the new Millenia 200's would sound much better.


I poped into a dealer today, says should be in stores mid September.

Studio 60v3
Studio 570
Studio 20v3
Servo 15

Power them using Anthem AVM30 and MCA50

I have a real mixed bag
Studio 40 V.3 L&R
Studio CC
Cinema 90 v.3 Rears
PDR 8 sub
I think my next upgrade will be the sub .I want a to improve the lows.
I want to stay with a small sub -is anyone using other subs with paradigms ?
Any thoughts on good small subs light cherry would be nice .
All driven by a Denon 3805

Studio 60v3
Studio 570
Studio 20v3
Servo 15

Power them using Anthem AVM30 and MCA50

Nice set up. I came real close to getting the same system.

they made a lot more just trying to find them is getting scarce.
Any particular source that you buy from? 75+75= a whole lot of hi-rez multi-channel goodness that I really should be participating in. Shame on me...:)

J.

bb
fryes
some borders book stores while they last
sound warehouse mixed in with the reg
that colection consist of clasical,jazz,blues,country,rockand pop.

Note: This is in response to an earlier post regarding whether or not a separate external amp is desired to power Studio 60 speakers with a Denon AVR-3806 Receiver.

Let's do the math!

The specifications from the Denon AVR-3806 Operating Instructions are:

120 Watts @ 8 Ohms 20 Hz -20K kHz with 0.05% T.H.D. for Front (2), Center (1), Surround (2) and Surround Back (2).

Power Consumption 7.1 Amps 120 VAC 60 Hz.

If we convert 7.1 Amps to Watts (Watts = Amps X Volts) 7.1 X120 = 852 Watts.

We know some power is lost to heat since no amplifier is 100% efficient. Also some power is lost to the display, fan, etc. So let's assume 80% efficiency. That leaves us with about 680 Watts divided by seven or 97 Watts per channel. This is a very conservative estimate and may actually be far less. I believe an earlier post quoted 77 Watts per channel all channels driven.

So driving Front speakers with an external amplifier suddenly makes lots of sense! This frees up the receiver to power only five channels instead of seven.

If your Front speakers can be bi-wired then a four channel external amplifier makes even more sense!


Chuck

I have a real mixed bag
Studio 40 V.3 L&R
Studio CC
Cinema 90 v.3 Rears
PDR 8 sub
I think my next upgrade will be the sub .I want a to improve the lows.
I want to stay with a small sub -is anyone using other subs with paradigms ?
Any thoughts on good small subs light cherry would be nice .
All driven by a Denon 3805

Yes. I auditioned Paradigm PW but went with HSU. SVS is another option. Both are Internet only companies with great products and great customer service.

Monitor 11 v.4 Front
CC 370 v.4 Center
HSU VTF-3 Mk2 subwoofer (available in Black or Maple only but you may be able to pick up a previously enjoyed Rosewood which is discontinued)
Yamaha RX-V2500 7.1 Receiver
DBX BX2 4-Channel Power Amp (The Monitor 11s are bi-amped)

For HT i use the THX recommended 80 Hz crossover
For Stereo music I use the 60 Hz crossover
The crossover in the HSU is disabled
The Monitor 11 -2dB point is 48 Hz

The -2dB point for the Studio 40 is 62 Hz so I would recommend the STF-2 or VTF-2 Mk2. If you give Dr Hsu your room dimensions on the website and send him a drawing he will recommend which subwoofer to purchase and where to place it in your room.


Chuck

If your Front speakers can be bi-wired then a four channel external amplifier makes even more sense!
Chuck

I was with you all the way up to this point. :)

Note: This is in response to an earlier post regarding whether or not a separate external amp is desired to power Studio 60 speakers with a Denon AVR-3806 Receiver.

Let's do the math!

The specifications from the Denon AVR-3806 Operating Instructions are:

120 Watts @ 8 Ohms 20 Hz -20K kHz with 0.05% T.H.D. for Front (2), Center (1), Surround (2) and Surround Back (2).

Power Consumption 7.1 Amps 120 VAC 60 Hz.

If we convert 7.1 Amps to Watts (Watts = Amps X Volts) 7.1 X120 = 852 Watts.

We know some power is lost to heat since no amplifier is 100% efficient. Also some power is lost to the display, fan, etc. So let's assume 80% efficiency. That leaves us with about 680 Watts divided by seven or 97 Watts per channel. This is a very conservative estimate and may actually be far less. I believe an earlier post quoted 77 Watts per channel all channels driven.

So driving Front speakers with an external amplifier suddenly makes lots of sense! This frees up the receiver to power only five channels instead of seven.

If your Front speakers can be bi-wired then a four channel external amplifier makes even more sense!


Chuck

In general you will be surprised how little watts is driving the speakers even at very loud levels. Most of the time that number is in the neighborhood of 5-20 watts. However its the transient that requires a looooooot of instantenous power. Thats when a separate power amp with lots of reserve comes in handy.

If your Front speakers can be bi-wired then a four channel external amplifier makes even more sense! Chuck

What would be the "nominal" ohm rating seen by each channel of the external amp if used in bi-amp (not bi-wired) setup on the Studio 60s...roughly 4 ohms each?

My Paradigm manual devotes quite a bit of ink proposing the advantages of bi-amping, both vertically and horizontally.

Hi everybody, im glad to say that I am now an official paradigm owner as well. Bought a pair of studio 60s and a cc570 which will be powered by a h/k avr 635 that should be arriving here in about a week. My question now is what speakers wires do I need to hook these all up? Im a complete newb when it comes to this stuff (only had a couple of home theater in a box setups before). Thanks for any help.

Hi everybody, im glad to say that I am now an official paradigm owner as well. Bought a pair of studio 60s and a cc570 which will be powered by a h/k avr 635 that should be arriving here in about a week. My question now is what speakers wires do I need to hook these all up? Im a complete newb when it comes to this stuff (only had a couple of home theater in a box setups before). Thanks for any help.

Some 14 or 12 Gauge from Home Depot should be fine.

I didnt find any on home depots site, will this work? http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2747&seq=1&format=2&style= Im assusming I have to buy a pair of banana plugs along with each wire correct?

I didnt find any on home depots site, will this work? http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2747&seq=1&format=2&style= Im assusming I have to buy a pair of banana plugs along with each wire correct?

Those should be fine. I use Sound King from PartsExpress myself, but those that you linked to seem even a better deal. Yes, its a pair of banana plugs for each wire, one end to go into your receiver, the other to go into the speaker.

Thanks for the info Yung can't wait to get these speakers set up :)

Thanks for the info Yung can't wait to get these speakers set up :)

Give us your opinion when it's all setup and how it goes.

What would be the "nominal" ohm rating seen by each channel of the external amp if used in bi-amp (not bi-wired) setup on the Studio 60s...roughly 4 ohms each?

Very good question! The quick easy answer is no, the impedance does not change like it does when you run speakers in parallel or when you bridge two amplifiers together to drive one speaker. In essence you are driving four separate speakers with four separate amplifiers.

That being said, the impedance will not be exactly the same either. Since you are separating the mid/bass from the high range the load presented to each amplifier will be slightly different but should still be near a nominal 8 ohms... You may want to consult your Paradigm Dealer.

I replaced my aging acoustic suspension Acoustic Research (AR) speakers with Paradigm Monitor 11s and coupled them with a Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver. I was disappointed with the Monitors. They sounded anemic compared to the ARs.

I read about bi-wiring and used the "A" and "B" speaker outputs on the receiver to connect two 12' 14 AWG stranded wire runs to each speaker. (Using the "A" and "B" speaker outputs made a cleaner install rather than having all that wire under one post.) I could not percieve a significant difference in the bass, however imaging improved and the Monitors felt clearer, more open and lifelike.

Then I read about bi-amping. I had a dbx BX-2 4-channel amplifier I was running in 2-channel bridged mode to power the ARs. I used "Y" adapters to connect the Pre-Outs from the receiver to the inputs of the amp. The volume controls on the amp are defeated so all levels are controlled by the receiver.

WOW! The Monitor's bass came to life! All the reviews I read were true! Of course I could have used just two channels and probably had the same result.

The amp specs (80WX4 RMS 20Hz-20kHz into 8 ohms all channels driven) are not spectacular so you don't need a huge monster amp maybe 150 wpc for two channel. I used the Avia DVD and a Radio Shack SPL Meter to fine tune the system after running YPAO. Everything sounds great now!

One important note! Using a 4-channel amp to bi-amp ensures all channels are identical. I probably would not attempt using separate monoblock amplifiers due to the complexity (Not to mention the cost!). Also if I didn't have a 4-channel amp just sitting around I probably would never have attempted this.

Hello All,

Studio 100v3
CC-570
2 Polk 265s(in wall, I think that's the #)
Sunfire true sub

Gear:
Anthem d1(just got it)
Parasound 2205a

I am very happy with the set-up but will eventually move to the p5 from anthem :)

Hi everybody, im glad to say that I am now an official paradigm owner as well. Bought a pair of studio 60s and a cc570 which will be powered by a h/k avr 635 that should be arriving here in about a week. My question now is what speakers wires do I need to hook these all up? Im a complete newb when it comes to this stuff (only had a couple of home theater in a box setups before). Thanks for any help.

Doesn't matter too much. Just check Blue Jeans Cable (forum sponsor) up at the top of the page, figure out how many feet you need and order what ever you can afford.

Hello All,

Studio 100v3
CC-570
2 Polk 265s(in wall, I think that's the #)
Sunfire true sub

Gear:
Anthem d1(just got it)
Parasound 2205a

I am very happy with the set-up but will eventually move to the p5 from anthem :)
Nice setup
You will love D1
try A5 and P2 for 7.1 setup

Hi All,
I was hoping to get some feedback.. I have a chance to buy a used set of Paradigm Monitor 9 v2 along with CC370 center channel speaker and PDR-12 subwoofer that are in good shape for about $700 ...I have heard some of the paradime speakers at my local dealer and really like the sound and seeing that these speakers are about 4 or 5 years old can i expect the same sound and will they make a good surround sound setup.....
Thanks for the help

Tim

are you positive theyre 4-5 years old?? im pretty sure they wont be...

either way its still a pretty damn good deal, i mean that center channel is fantastic, and the monitor 9s will match it pretty well

whoops almost forgot my question..

does anyone know of paradigm dealers near san jose!? i want to buy some paradigms, but since i cant find them online besides ebay and crap, im stuck with dealers.. and the nearest one is like 45 mins away from me.

While I've made numerous posts to this thread, I've never actually posted a description or pics of my set-up. So here's my shameless plug . . . :D

Mains: Paradigm Signature S4s
Center: Paradigm Signature C3
Surrounds: Paradigm Signature ADPs
Sub: Velodyne DD15 (would have gone with the Sig sub, but I wanted the EQ feature of the Velodyne)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j193/ptwalker/PDR_0622.jpg

(Just got a new 58" plasma to go with my favorite speakers, so I'm set for a while.)

Cheers,

- Tim

very nice

Sweet set-up Tim.

Thanks guys. It took a while in the making, but I finally got it right. Now I just need to update my front end with a seperate prepro and amp(s).

Nice and clean
did you use hammer to get C3 in
Nice :)

Nice and clean
did you use hammer to get C3 in
Nice :)

Tight fit eh? :eek:

I had the console custom built to make space specifically for the C3. I measured the speaker to get the tolerences on the opening just right.

Nice setup sponge! Now you can get your Sig sub because Velodyne sells the SMS-1 to mate with any sub....so you can get the EQ AND have a matching sub. ;)

Nice setup sponge! Now you can get your Sig sub because Velodyne sells the SMS-1 to mate with any sub....so you can get the EQ AND have a matching sub. ;)

Thanks much! The Sig sub / SMS-1 combo would be a great idea for a new owner, but the Velo I have is gloss black just like my Sigs and I love it. No need to waste money just to get a perfect match. :D

While I've made numerous posts to this thread, I've never actually posted a description or pics of my set-up. So here's my shameless plug . . . :D

Mains: Paradigm Signature S4s
Center: Paradigm Signature C3
Surrounds: Paradigm Signature ADPs
Sub: Velodyne DD15 (would have gone with the Sig sub, but I wanted the EQ feature of the Velodyne)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j193/ptwalker/PDR_0622.jpg

(Just got a new 58" plasma to go with my favorite speakers, so I'm set for a while.)

Cheers,

- Tim

Sweet!!! :eek:

I am looking into my first surround setup and looking to go the Paradigm Millenia route. I have heard the stands are for the Millenia 20s are in the making now, but wondered if anyone knew when they would be done or what could be used in the interm?

I am looking into my first surround setup and looking to go the Paradigm Millenia route. I have heard the stands are for the Millenia 20s are in the making now, but wondered if anyone knew when they would be done or what could be used in the interm?

Those speakers are so new that I think only Paradigm or your dealer would have the answer for you. I doubt anyone here will know the arrangment of the mounts on the speakers. Paradigm customer service is quite good. Give em a call.

How (or where) do I find out the MSRPin the US, for Paradigm speakers? Where does the Paradigm Reference line stand with respect to other Paradigm Speakers? (Please mention main differences).

Thanks

How (or where) do I find out the MSRPin the US, for Paradigm speakers? Where does the Paradigm Reference line stand with respect to other Paradigm Speakers? (Please mention main differences).

Thanks

I use bradfordshifidotcom for MSRP in the US.

Where does the Paradigm Reference line stand with respect to other Paradigm Speakers? (Please mention main differences).

Thanks

Here is a good starting point for you:

http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/StudioSeries/StudioSpecs.html

As promised back in post 1621 here is a picture of the room treatments that made such a difference with my listening experience.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/21925/cat/501

As promised back in post 1621 here is a picture of the room treatments that made such a difference in my listening experience.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/21925/cat/501

All we need to do is add a trophy to that room this season and it will be perfect!

Amen to that John. Will it ever happen?????

Amen to that John. Will it ever happen?????

Feb '07. I'll have my Studio 60s and cc570 rockin' the family room. :)

Where does the Paradigm Reference line stand with respect to other Paradigm Speakers? (Please mention main differences).

Thanks

Please, I'm not an expert. This is just my view.

Paradigm Reference series falls between Paradigm and Paradigm Signature.

Paradigm includes the Performance Series, Cinema Series and Monitor Series. Summary - Superior performance at a reasonable cost.

Paradigm Reference includes the Studio Series, Seismic Series, Servo Series and the new Millenia Series. Summary - Great care is taken to reduce distotrion to provide the best sound possible.

Paradigm Signature - The elite premium top of the line from Paradigm. Summary - Premium cabinets and finishes.

In my opinion you can't go wrong with any Paradigm product. You just need to choose what is right for you and your environment (room).

Please, I'm not an expert. This is just my view.

Paradigm Reference series falls between Paradigm and Paradigm Signature.

Paradigm includes the Performance Series, Cinema Series and Monitor Series. Summary - Superior performance at a reasonable cost.

Paradigm Reference includes the Studio Series, Seismic Series, Servo Series and the new Millenia Series. Summary - Great care is taken to reduce distotrion to provide the best sound possible.

Paradigm Signature - The elite premium top of the line from Paradigm. Summary - Premium cabinets and finishes.

In my opinion you can't go wrong with any Paradigm product. You just need to choose what is right for you and your environment (room).

Well put. That pretty much sums it up.

Hi All,
I was hoping to get some feedback.. I have a chance to buy a used set of Paradigm Monitor 9 v2 along with CC370 center channel speaker and PDR-12 subwoofer that are in good shape for about $700 ...I have heard some of the paradime speakers at my local dealer and really like the sound and seeing that these speakers are about 4 or 5 years old can i expect the same sound and will they make a good surround sound setup.....
Thanks for the help

Tim
Sounds like a real good price to me! Can you inspect/listen to them before buying?

I have montior 9's with CC-370 via Yamaha RX-V1600 and I bi-amp'ed them. I was pretty happy with them out of the box but when I bi-amp'ed them via my Yamaha I was even happier! I use cinema 110's as my rears which my dealer said had the same tweeters so they match and are very easy to mount on the wall. Very nice!

What is the receiver you plan to use?

Glenn

While I've made numerous posts to this thread, I've never actually posted a description or pics of my set-up. So here's my shameless plug . . . :D

Mains: Paradigm Signature S4s
Center: Paradigm Signature C3
Surrounds: Paradigm Signature ADPs
Sub: Velodyne DD15 (would have gone with the Sig sub, but I wanted the EQ feature of the Velodyne)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j193/ptwalker/PDR_0622.jpg

(Just got a new 58" plasma to go with my favorite speakers, so I'm set for a while.)

Cheers,

- Tim

Very clean! Where is your receiver and other gear?

I have montior 9's with CC-370 via Yamaha RX-V1600 and I bi-amp'ed them. I was pretty happy with them out of the box but when I bi-amp'ed them via my Yamaha I was even happier! Glenn


How did you do that?

Very clean! Where is your receiver and other gear?

I've gotten that question a few times with that pic of my set-up. I retrofitted a built-in cabinet to hold all of my components. It is just out of that picture off to the left.

You can see it here.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j193/ptwalker/PDR_0605.jpg

I've gotten that question a few times with that pic of my set-up. I retrofitted a built-in cabinet to hold all of my components. It is just out of that picture off to the left.

You can see it here.



I wonder if my wife will let me take over her built-ins? :)

I wonder if my wife will let me take over her built-ins? :)

I say go for it! My wife is pretty cool that way though. She likes watching movies and listening to music (not as much as I do), and she likes having a hi-tech house. Even if I do drive her a bit cRaZy with it sometimes. :eek:

Greetings & Salutations ...

Fronts: Studio 60's
Centre: CC570
Side: ADP-470
Rear: Studio 20's
Sub: PW2200

Powered by Pioneer Elite 84TXsi

Its all nice and pretty too.

Has anyone used a small paradigm speaker as a centre channel. I'm currently running 4.0 using a 23 year old pair of Infinity speakers as the mains. I would like to add a centre channel but it would be impossible to timbre match with the mains. I plan to move from my apartment to a house in a couple of years and at that time (or in another year), I may buy a new paradigm surround system and use my current speakers in other rooms. I am hesitent to spend a lot on a centre speaker now because I would want to buy one from the same line when I buy a new system. Therefore I thought that one of the really small bookshelf speakers might work well, and could become a surround speaker later (or stereo in a small room) because matching timbre is not critical with surrounds. Just wondering if anyone has tried this.

Did anybody bother to improve on the crossover filters in their Paradigm speakers?

Well I did :-) Here are two pics of before and after modification.

Did anybody bother to improve on the crossover filters in their Paradigm speakers?

Well I did :-) Here are two pics of before and after modification.

So what did you do, with what version of the Studio 60s, and how are the results? I own a pair of 60v3s (brand new, don't think right now I want to get that brave :D )

Did you consider going with an active external x-over and bi-amping? Obviously the passive mod was easier.

So what did you do, with what version of the Studio 60s, and how are the results?

Inquiring minds want to know. :)