I respectfully disagree. I own the S4s and a Denon 5800 AVR that will drive them to scary loud levels with no distortion. Before I owned the S4 I also had the S8s, which were also powered by the Denon with absolutely no problems at all. How much power a speaker needs is dictated by the speakers sensitivity and the impedance. The Paradigms have relatively high sensitivity and are 8 Ohms nominal. A good mid-level or higher receiver will have no problem driving them.
i agree i power mine with an integra 10.5 easily.

They will be able to drive them, yes. I guess I worded my answer poorly. A receiver will power them okay without trouble, but if you really want to get the most out of what you just spent a good amount of money on (S4's as the case may be), a separate amp is the way to go. It really allows the speakers to stretch out and play at their finest.

-K

I respectfully disagree. I own the S4s and a Denon 5800 AVR that will drive them to scary loud levels with no distortion. Before I owned the S4 I also had the S8s, which were also powered by the Denon with absolutely no problems at all. How much power a speaker needs is dictated by the speakers sensitivity and the impedance. The Paradigms have relatively high sensitivity and are 8 Ohms nominal. A good mid-level or higher receiver will have no problem driving them.
Good point
But
My S4s sound much cleaner and deeper with A2 than 1075 at lower volume's
And the base is much deeper at higher Volume
100 WPC Receiver will drive those speakers no problem,
But I just finished compering my 2 amps with S4's and my preference is A2 for fronts (or something more than 125WPC for S4's)
Hope this helps

Bassbone57 - While I'm still open to the possibility that amps with a decent power supply, flat frequency response and low distortion may still sound different, so far in my 10 years of being in this hobby that hasn't been my experience.

Elmac - In regards to needing more than 125 watts for the S4s, the only thing amp wattage dictates is the max output of the speaker it is driving. The truth is that at moderate listening levels, the Paradigm speakers will be drawing less than one watt.

Bassbone57 - While I'm still open to the possibility that amps with a decent power supply, flat frequency response and low distortion may still sound different, so far in my 10 years of being in this hobby that hasn't been my experience.

Elmac - In regards to needing more than 125 watts for the S4s, the only thing amp wattage dictates is the max output of the speaker it is driving. The truth is that at moderate listening levels, the Paradigm speakers will be drawing less than one watt.

Not only that, but an amp can only put out as much as it can get from the panel. The standard circuit is 15 amps, and when wiring a house, up to an 80% (12 amp) load can be placed on it. Each plug and light is considered 1 amp; thus a combination of 12 plugs and lights per circuit. That's how it's done in Canada at least, but it's probably similar in the US.

So, say you have 3 lights hooked up to the circuit your AV system is using at 120w each. That's 3 amps gone. If the wall that your AV equipment is hooked up to divides two rooms, chances are that it's sharing power with whatever you have hooked up in the other room too. Then, in a typical set up, your amp also has to share power with the rest of the AV equipment. That doesn't leave it much to work with. If you take a popular choice like the Bryston 4bsst, they state on page 3 of the manual (http://www.bryston.ca/BrystonSite05/pdfs/manuals/4Bsst_MANUAL.pdf) that it will consume all power on a 15 amp circuit at 4 ohms, and that a dedicated line may be necessary. If I remember correctly, Anthem amps use 1800w. Divide that by 120, and you get 15 amps.

Running a dedicated line for the power amp isn't a problem if you own a house of course, but if you are renting.... If someone is renting, what they could do is flip through the switches on the panel and try to minimize the load on the circuit that the amp will be using. If you're lucky and your AV gear is located where one circuit ends and another starts, you could put the amp on one and the rest of the AV gear on the other.

If you have a large room and you're running tower speakers, I can see the need for extra power, but the S4s are fairly sensitive. If they're in a small-medium sized room and combined with a sub, you shouldn't need a ton of power. I think a Bryston 3bsst or 3bst would be a good match. It's only 50 watts more than a typical AVR, but it's conservatively rated, and it's about quality more than quantity. If you're going to spend a good chunk of money on Signatures, I do think separates would be the way to go, but you don't need a huge power amp.

I think the desire to have big amps and speakers is sometimes like wanting to have a car with a ton of power. We may not need it, but it's cool. :D

Thanks for the help bassbone. My plan was to get the s4s first and then slowly upgrade to 5.1.

The A2 seems reasonably priced but the A5 is a bit more pricey then I was hoping for, its seems thats what I need though to power a 5.1 system.

Still have a lot of time to think about it and see what setup will suit me best.

The MCA 50 might be a good alternative.

That is correct, 80Hz for all speakers. There is also a separate LFE crossover value, and that should be set to 120Hz. And all speakers set to small as well.

NickNick, thanks for the reply. In order to improve my knowledge, would you mind explaining why the LOW FREQUENCY EXTENSION (sub) should be valued at 120hz rather than 80? Thanks again.

Chuck :)

hey guys i have a quick question, whats the difference between v3 and v4 of the cc-370. I have some very nice monitor 11's waiting for me, just need the center and surrounds. So i was wondering if there is a huge difference between the two....

It was such a minor change, I wouldn't worry about it.

-K

Nice, i think with the 11's the 370 will go good, now i just have to decide if i want the adp's or mini's

I've always liked dipoles myself, but I know a lot of people that think direct radiators are the only way to go. Listen to both and pick whichever you like best. Good luck!

-K

Nice, i think with the 11's the 370 will go good, now i just have to decide if i want the adp's or mini's

Yeah, a/b the two if you can. I prefer direct speakers, but a lot of people seem to have a strong preference for one or the other. By listening to the two before you buy, it should become clear which is best for you.

Nick, thanks for the reply. In order to improve my knowledge, would you mind explaining why the LOW FREQUENCY EXTENSION (sub) should be valued at 120hz rather than 80? Thanks again.

Chuck :)

I think we may be miscomuicating. Just to be sure:

http://www.htexplained.com/abridged/Chap%203.htm

In a stereo music system, a subwoofer handles frequencies below what the main speakers can handle, typically under 80 Hz. In a 5.1 Dolby Digital system, however, the subwoofer has an additional purpose: to handle the low-frequency effects (LFE) channel, which is the “.1” part. This is a distinct channel, not the low frequencies of the other channels.

The process of redirecting the below-80 Hz. frequencies to the subwoofer is called bass management, and it’s discussed in more detail later in this chapter.

The industry standard and THX standard for LFE effects is that they may go to 120Hz, but not above. Hence setting LFE at 120Hz is standard practice. Unless you are watching an LFE encoded movie (they all are) LFE is inactive and has no effect on what you hear.

Does this clear things up some?

Nick

Bassbone57 - While I'm still open to the possibility that amps with a decent power supply, flat frequency response and low distortion may still sound different, so far in my 10 years of being in this hobby that hasn't been my experience.

Elmac - In regards to needing more than 125 watts for the S4s, the only thing amp wattage dictates is the max output of the speaker it is driving. The truth is that at moderate listening levels, the Paradigm speakers will be drawing less than one watt.
Agree But recovery and the bottom end on separates above 125WPC its much quicker than on the standard receiver.
my A2 sounds much better than RMB1075 wich sounded much better than RB1050 which sounded much better than Integra DTR 7.1 which had 100WPC
Y would a 70WPC amp sound better than Integra receiver which was 100WPC.
You can drive any speaker with 10WPC amp but will sound much better with 50WPC amp
The capacitors that store energy that gives you power are much smaller in the receiver, some times 10 times smaller.
But when you compare both side by side you will hear the difference, at least I can.
BTW
My old Integra 6 channel receiver was 12 kg and 2 channel Rotel Amp RB1050 is 8.1 kg
The truth is Receivers will not give you a true power specs
All they will give you is your peak or in the best scenarios RMS power values.
100W receiver will give you a max power of AVG 42.42 WPC which will RMS at 70.7 WPC in the reg listening mode.
"In a train of identical pulses, the instantaneous power is a periodic function of time. The ratio of the pulse duration to the period is equal to the ratio of the average power to the peak power. It is also called the duty cycle."
So based on this
Integra should be at least 25 to 30kg to be able to provide the same kind of power what 70WPC rotel amp can do.
But don't forget your ears have to be the judge and no one else.

Elmac -

I've had a couple of dedicated amps in my system (I wanted to see if I could improve the sound of my system), and honestly I heard no difference in sound quality between them and the amps built into my Denon 5800.

But then who knows, maybe it is because the Denon is already capable of over 140 real watts, all channels driven, and over 200 watts in stereo.

These are the output specs on the Denon 5800, per the www.ultimateavmag.com test on the AVR:

"...with six channels driven, the AVR-5800's power output at clipping (1% THD+noise) measured 143Wpc at 1kHz and 145Wpc at 20Hz, left channel measured to the nearest watt. Into 4ohms, the corresponding results were 220Wpc at 1kHz and 176Wpc at 20Hz,... With two channels driven at 1kHz, clipping occurred at 206Wpc into 8ohms and 308Wpc into 4ohms, left channel measured."

Agree But recovery and the bottom end on separates above 125WPC its much quicker than on the standard receiver.
my A2 sounds much better than RMB1075 wich sounded much better than RB1050 which sounded much better than Integra DTR 7.1 which had 100WPC
Y would a 70WPC amp sound better than Integra receiver which was 100WPC.
You can drive any speaker with 10WPC amp but will sound much better with 50WPC amp
The capacitors that store energy that gives you power are much smaller in the receiver, some times 10 times smaller.
But when you compare both side by side you will hear the difference, at least I can.
BTW
My old Integra 6 channel receiver was 12 kg and 2 channel Rotel Amp RB1050 is 8.1 kg
The truth is Receivers will not give you a true power specs
All they will give you is your peak or in the best scenarios RMS power values.
100W receiver will give you a max power of AVG 42.42 WPC which will RMS at 70.7 WPC in the reg listening mode.
"In a train of identical pulses, the instantaneous power is a periodic function of time. The ratio of the pulse duration to the period is equal to the ratio of the average power to the peak power. It is also called the duty cycle."
So based on this
Integra should be at least 25 to 30kg to be able to provide the same kind of power what 70WPC rotel amp can do.
But don't forget your ears have to be the judge and no one else.

Weight can be one indicator of a well built product, but that's using a pretty big brush. Carver amps, for example, can crank out power, and they're not that heavy.

I posted this in the general forum but I think it was likely more appropriate here. I have a small living room that is about 14' x 15' with ceilings of about 8'. I'm interested in the Paradigm Cinema Series for size, aesthetics, and cost (we'll be building soon so no need to get crazy in this house). My couch is against the backwall. Any thoughts on the appropriateness of the following with a Denon 2807 or 2307 in a 5.1 setup almost exclusively for TV/DVD viewing ( I assume 6.1 or 7.1 isn't feasible given the location of the couch). I am not an audio or videophile.
It has been suggested that I concentrate more on the speakers than the receiver.
Cinema 220 or 330 LCR?
Cinema ADP or 90/110 surrounds?
SVS PB10-NSD?
All feedback is greatly appreciated.

I think we may be miscomuicating. Just to be sure:

http://www.htexplained.com/abridged/Chap%203.htm

In a stereo music system, a subwoofer handles frequencies below what the main speakers can handle, typically under 80 Hz. In a 5.1 Dolby Digital system, however, the subwoofer has an additional purpose: to handle the low-frequency effects (LFE) channel, which is the “.1” part. This is a distinct channel, not the low frequencies of the other channels.

The process of redirecting the below-80 Hz. frequencies to the subwoofer is called bass management, and it’s discussed in more detail later in this chapter.

The industry standard and THX standard for LFE effects is that they may go to 120Hz, but not above. Hence setting LFE at 120Hz is standard practice. Unless you are watching an LFE encoded movie (they all are) LFE is inactive and has no effect on what you hear.

Does this clear things up some?

NickYes, it helps a lot. Thanks again.

looks like it was not a rumor studio v4 reality
and new center looks closer to sigs best.

Elmac -

I've had a couple of dedicated amps in my system (I wanted to see if I could improve the sound of my system), and honestly I heard no difference in sound quality between them and the amps built into my Denon 5800.

But then who knows, maybe it is because the Denon is already capable of over 140 real watts, all channels driven, and over 200 watts in stereo.

These are the output specs on the Denon 5800, per the www.ultimateavmag.com test on the AVR:

"...with six channels driven, the AVR-5800's power output at clipping (1% THD+noise) measured 143Wpc at 1kHz and 145Wpc at 20Hz, left channel measured to the nearest watt. Into 4ohms, the corresponding results were 220Wpc at 1kHz and 176Wpc at 20Hz,... With two channels driven at 1kHz, clipping occurred at 206Wpc into 8ohms and 308Wpc into 4ohms, left channel measured."
Agree 5800 Is one of the flagship receivers up there on the market.
One very easy way to know how good the amp is to see the specs with 4 or 6 ohms speakers
Well build and responsive amp will drive 4ohm speakers with almost Identical distortion as at 8 ohms, which unfortunately some receivers will not do, or is not recommended by MFG of that receiver for a long periods of time
Integra/Onkyo still doesn't recommend a 4 ohm speakers on 80% of their receivers so I hope you understand my response (but they do test them at 4 ohms, just don't know y)
Here is y I wouldn't trust some of the receivers:
"* specifications subject to change without notice
** calculated on basis of IHF Dynamic headroom"
But don't forget for AVG listener thats all they will ever need
BTW
Isn't true that 5800 beat Int. 9.1U2 in all the specs. That should tell you something how well some amps are build
I love integra receivers and always will recommend them to anyone starting out

looks like it was not a rumor studio v4 reality
and new center looks closer to sigs best.
Yep
You can really see some of the Sig technology in them

looks like it was not a rumor studio v4 reality
and new center looks closer to sigs best.


Are you saying that there is now a studio version 4 (replacing version 3).

Do you have a link?

There is a thread in here about cedia. Headlined about paradigm signature and monitors. Here is a link. http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/avtour2006/ced_dly_sep14.html

Bumped it for ya

There is a thread in here about cedia. Headlined about paradigm signature and monitors. Here is a link. http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/avtour2006/ced_dly_sep14.html

I find it interesting that they have moved to an aluminum midrange driver now. Wonder how that sounds compared to the plastic cones they used to use. Knowing Paradigm, I'm sure they sound great.

I need to mount my CC570 above the TV ... and have a question that I'm hoping you learned people may help with.


Has anyone used the same style clips to mount the CC570 as are commonly shipped with the ADP470?

The ADP470 come with flush mount clips that are capable of holding each 26lb speaker. If I use 2 of these same style clips (I can pick them up from Lee Valley) then I can then mount my CC570 in a very clean manner instead of on a shelf.

I would of course have to drill some small holes in the back for the mounting hardware

Thanks
-tony

Hey paradigm owners i need some Help ! I am going to get some paradigm studio speakers for my basement theater room which is on the smaller side 12' by 16' and 7.5' tall. Well anyways i went to my local paradigm dealer looking at getting a 7.1 setup in the studio line front studio60's, center cc570, side adp470's, rear studio20's and servo-15 sub. The sales guy at the store talked with me about my room size , seating placement and theater to music ratio and he suggested that since my room is small and that my seating will only be about 2 feet from the back wall that i wouldnt get anymore benefit out of a 7.1 over a 5.1 for my situation and that he would go to a 5.1 instead keeping the side speakers and that he would also use the studio40's instead of the 60's and that i could use the extra channel from only going 5.1 to bi-amp the 40's. Well could some of you good people on here tell me if that sounds right to you i am a newbie to this hometheater stuff and want your help ! Oh and could you tell me also what would be the way to go to power these paradigms ! Thanks everyone !

GP123:

I agree with your salesman. The ADP-470's will give you excellent surround sound in a small room. Studio 20's right behind the viewers would be distracting.
If you don't bi-amp, you can used the additional channels in another room.

Are you saying that there is now a studio version 4 (replacing version 3).

Do you have a link?
Yep
I just got S4's and C3
and really wonna an S6's which where not available at the time
Now will cost me to update to S6's
:mad:
I should of paid more attention when I went for tour of Paradigm and Anthem Factory a month ago
:(
oh well its only money :(

I will make ya feal better
Send me your S4's & you will feal much better

I will make ya feal better
Send me your S4's & you will feal much better
You may wanna come to Toronto to pick them up

I will even splerg for the shipping

Yep
I just got S4's and C3
and really wonna an S6's which where not available at the time
Now will cost me to update to S6's
:mad:
I should of paid more attention when I went for tour of Paradigm and Anthem Factory a month ago
:(
oh well its only money :(

Now that the Signature line uses berillyum tweeters and cobalt infused aluminum midrange drivers, it seems you will need to replace all your Sig speakers if you go with the S6s. Ouch!

I will even splerg for the shipping
LOL
thats a good one

Now that the Signature line uses berillyum tweeters and cobalt infused aluminum midrange drivers, it seems you will need to replace all your Sig speakers if you go with the S6s. Ouch!
Yep
My dealer already is trying to find me a price on it and availability
This will be painful. Almost everything is broken in now.
He thinks they will not be available till spring, I told him that my Ser# better finish with 0001 or he lost a deal, he was laughing at this. I told him that, that was not a joke. I wanna the first S6's in Ontario
He is working ont the price for all 5 speakers with trade in Value.

Elmac -

Be sure to give us a comparison of the sound of old vs new once you get them. I'm sure many would be curious.

Cheers,

- Tim

Yep
My dealer already is trying to find me a price on it and availability
This will be painful. Almost everything is broken in now.
He thinks they will not be available till spring, I told him that my Ser# better finish with 0001 or he lost a deal, he was laughing at this. I told him that, that was not a joke. I wanna the first S6's in Ontario
He is working ont the price for all 5 speakers with trade in Value.

I bought one of the first THX receivers in Ontario. As far as I know, the Onkyo 919THX was the first THX receiver, and my dealer told me that mine was from the first shipment to Ontario.

If the new Paradigms won't be available til spring, it works for me. I was planning on buying them a piece at a time starting with the mains. However, I can just tuck away money for them til they're released and buy more in one shot. I'll probly go with the Studios though. So, you can have the 0001 sigs, and I'll go for the 0001 Studios. :D

Elmac -

Be sure to give us a comparison of the sound of old vs new once you get them. I'm sure many would be curious.

Cheers,

- Tim
Will give you a full review on it

Yep
My dealer already is trying to find me a price on it and availability
This will be painful. Almost everything is broken in now.
He thinks they will not be available till spring, I told him that my Ser# better finish with 0001 or he lost a deal, he was laughing at this. I told him that, that was not a joke. I wanna the first S6's in Ontario
He is working ont the price for all 5 speakers with trade in Value.Would it not make sense to wait until they're released and then listen to them yourself in store in order to decide if the upgrade is worthwhile to you, instead of spending money blindly? You may not notice much of a difference, or the difference may not be one you prefer.

We have some degree of 'upgrade-itis', let's think about this for a minute...

I do understand where you're coming from however, as I jjust bought the following 3-4 weeks ago: Signature S8's, Signature C5 center, Signature ADP surrounds. (All v.1 of course).

Kal

I ordered Cinema 70 CT v.3 from SIXTH AVE and had them shipped. When they arrived the box appeared to have been opened before. I contacted 6th AVE and they said it’s normal as they inspect the products before shipping. So, I open the box and here is what I find:
- Speakers put back into clear plastic bags. They appear brand new.
- There is a small plastic bag with a bunch of rubber feet. However, considering the concave bottom of the satellites, rubber feet are useless.
- No documentation at all. No user guide, warranty card, quick setup, etc. to be found anywhere.
- There are some strands of copper wire clipping at the bottom of the box.

I suspect that 6th AVE shipped me an open-box product. Can someone confirm what I can expect in the Cinema 70 CT packaging?

Unless the box is dented or looks damaged, there's no reason to 'inspect' the box before shipping it. In fact, that's extra work, so I doubt most would even bother. Not to mention that most buyers will want new unopened boxes anyway.

There should have been documentation of some sort.

The copper wire clipping may be because the speakers were tried out and some got caught in the binding posts.

Kal

P.S. I thought that Paradigm didn't allow internet/mailorder of their products? (They're very sticky about this in Canada at least). I'm surprised to hear that you had them shipped...

Would it not make sense to wait until they're released and then listen to them yourself in store in order to decide if the upgrade is worthwhile to you, instead of spending money blindly? You may not notice much of a difference, or the difference may not be one you prefer.

We have some degree of 'upgrade-itis', let's think about this for a minute...

I do understand where you're coming from however, as I jjust bought the following 3-4 weeks ago: Signature S8's, Signature C5 center, Signature ADP surrounds. (All v.1 of course).

Kal
Thats a good point
But I really wanna to get S6 which where not available
and S8 where too big
S4's are great and after calibrating my DD12 that combo sounds amazing for music
But I'm missing towers up front :)

P.S. I thought that Paradigm didn't allow internet/mailorder of their products? (They're very sticky about this in Canada at least). I'm surprised to hear that you had them shipped...

It wasn't really mail order. I bought them in store but they didn't have the black speakers at that location. So they had them shipped to me from their warehouse.

Hey whats everybody using to power there paradigms ? I am going to be getting some studio40's for the front and the cc570 center, adp-470's for the sides ! SO i am looking for some ideas on what receiver or receiver and amp to use !

P.S. I thought that Paradigm didn't allow internet/mailorder of their products? (They're very sticky about this in Canada at least). I'm surprised to hear that you had them shipped...That really surprises me also. That's a big no-no in Paradigm's book.

-K

Hey whats everybody using to power there paradigms ? I am going to be getting some studio40's for the front and the cc570 center, adp-470's for the sides ! SO i am looking for some ideas on what receiver or receiver and amp to use !
I'd suggest one of Denon's higher-end line of receivers -- the AVR 3806 with 120wpc, up to the the 4306 or '4806.

Hey whats everybody using to power there paradigms ? I am going to be getting some studio40's for the front and the cc570 center, adp-470's for the sides ! SO i am looking for some ideas on what receiver or receiver and amp to use !
What is your budget

Hey whats everybody using to power there paradigms ? I am going to be getting some studio40's for the front and the cc570 center, adp-470's for the sides ! SO i am looking for some ideas on what receiver or receiver and amp to use !

I'm using an Onkyo, but my next upgrade - after I upgrade speakers - will most likely be an Anthem pre/pro and Bryston power amps.

If you go with a receiver, I suggest looking for one that allows you to add on extra power amps, etc. That way, if you want to upgrade and/or move to separates down the road, you can do it gradually by adding power amp/s first and using the receiver as a pre/pro, or vice versa.

For power amps, I like Krell, Bryston, Anthem, Carver and Sunfire. Some of it can be a bit pricey, but if you look around, you can find good deals on used amps. Carver can be a good way to get into separates at an affordable price. I've seen Carver amps that put out 250-380 watts go for about $500-700 on eBay. However, Bryston is the safest bet because of the 20 year warranty.

Just be careful if you look for used gear because there has been some Krell fraud on eBay lately. If going used, I would look at ads that are local, go to shops that have used gear, or use something like escrow.

For receivers, I like Onkyo and Denon.

Thats a good point
But I really wanna to get S6 which where not available
and S8 where too big
S4's are great and after calibrating my DD12 that combo sounds amazing for music
But I'm missing towers up front :)
Where is your DD12 crossed?

Hey whats everybody using to power there paradigms ? I am going to be getting some studio40's for the front and the cc570 center, adp-470's for the sides ! SO i am looking for some ideas on what receiver or receiver and amp to use !
Studio 100s, CC570, cheap in ceiling surrounds. Onkyo TX-SR803. I have heard the 100s would sound better with more power but they sound great to me. Play very loud and clean. Of course I have nothing to compare them to.

Where is your DD12 crossed?

I've got my DD15 crossed over at 80 Hz to my S4s. Could go low as 60 Hz, but I get better kick at 80.

Hey whats everybody using to power there paradigms ? I am going to be getting some studio40's for the front and the cc570 center, adp-470's for the sides ! SO i am looking for some ideas on what receiver or receiver and amp to use !

Studio 60s > Aragon 8008BB amp, 200 wpc @ 8 ohms, 2 channel
Studio CC570 > Aragon 8002 amp, 125wpc @ 8 ohms, 2 channel (vertically bi-amp)
Side surrounds (soon to be ADP470s) > Rotel 1055 receiver, 100 wpc @ 8 ohms, 2 channel. The Rotel is also the pre/pro.

Where is your DD12 crossed?
I got it crossed at 80Hz
I played around with that for about a week to see what I like the best and 80 it was

Hey whats everybody using to power there paradigms ? I am going to be getting some studio40's for the front and the cc570 center, adp-470's for the sides ! SO i am looking for some ideas on what receiver or receiver and amp to use !

I am using an Outlaw 7125 with my Paradigm 40/470/20 v3 setup along with a Velodyne spl1200 II sub. I'm totally satisfied with this combo.

I am using an Outlaw 7125 with my Paradigm 40/470/20 v3 setup along with a Velodyne spl1200 II sub. I'm totally satisfied with this combo.
I hear Bryston, Krell and Carver recommended quite abit but not much said about Outlaw. Was just wondering if this is from experience with the Outlaw/Paradigm combo. Duffmike seems to enjoy his Outlaw. Anyone else running Outlaw amps?

The reason I ask is I have been considering an Outlaw 990 pre/pro with a model 7500 amp. (or 3 2200 mono blocks for the front. I can add 2 more 2200s when I get my ADPs.) If Anyone else is using Outlaw amps with their Paradigms, how do you like them? Will my Studio 100s really sound noticably better with the extra wattage? (would be going from 105w/ch to 200w/ch.)

I would like to keep my budget around $2000 ! If possible !

Does anyone know when the Studio v4's will be available?

Have seen one report saying November. Another says January 07. Not sure how tight lipped paradigm is about this stuff. Your local dealer might know. If not, I would try paradigm and see what they tell you.

I would like to keep my budget around $2000 ! If possible !

Paradigm is the parent company of Anthem. So, it stands to reason that Anthem would be a good match, and you'd most likely be able to demo Anthem amps at your Paradigm dealer.

The Anthem MCA 50 amp sells for about $2000, and you might be able to get a better deal if you buy it from the same dealer you buy your Paradigms from. At 180 watts x 5, you'd have plenty of power for all channels at a price that shouldn't blow the budget you've set.

There's a review that compares the Anthem MCA 50 with Outlaw here: http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/anthem_mca50.htm

If you're interested in Bryston, there's a Bryston 5bst for sale on eBay right now. The 5bst has 120 watts x 3, but it's conservatively rated, and it's more like 150.

The starting bid is $950, and the guy says he has a low reserve. The 5bst goes for about $2450 new - according to audio review. The price of the Bryston 4bst (250 watts x 2) is roughly the same - about $2200 new - and it usually sells for about $1500 used. Therefore, my guess is that his reserve is about $1500.

The seller has good feedback, and the amp has $1000 pay pal protection.

For rear channels, a Bryston 3bst would match the 5bst perfectly, and the 3bst goes for about $800 used.

I should also point out that Brystons are known for being neutral. So, if you play a crappy recording, it won't be very forgiving, but if you want an amp that doesn't color the sound a lot, that's a good thing.

Anyways, just thought I'd let you know.

With Studio v4s coming out, does this mean the v3s that dealers have should drop in price?

I'm looking to fill out my current 5.1 system - -which is Studio 20s v3 and cc470 v3s (plus Atoms as surrounds) -- with 2 ADPs from the Studio line (for side surrounds).

Should I buy v3 ADPs now (or when prices drop) -- or wait for v4?

With Studio v4s coming out, does this mean the v3s that dealers have should drop in price?

I'm looking to fill out my current 5.1 system - -which is Studio 20s v3 and cc470 v3s (plus Atoms as surrounds) -- with 2 ADPs from the Studio line (for side surrounds).

Should I buy v3 ADPs now (or when prices drop) -- or wait for v4?


You'ld think... I'm in the same boat, still need some ADPv3s surrounds.

But according to the link in the other thread, the new ADP's will be $600 each. So I could see a dealer making the claim that the older version is already cheaper :(

Maybe if your dealer has some demos he wants to unload.

You'ld think... I'm in the same boat, still need some ADPv3s surrounds.

But according to the link in the other thread, the new ADP's will be $600 each. So I could see a dealer making the claim that the older version is already cheaper :(

Maybe if your dealer has some demos he wants to unload.

What's the msrp for the v3s?

What's the msrp for the v3s?

Here's the link most folks refer to:

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.htm#Paradigm

They were $950. then up to $1100.

Here's the link most folks refer to:

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.htm#Paradigm

They were $950. then up to $1100.

I'll offer my dealer $950 for some v3s then I guess. They usually discount 15% off MSRP.

In case they run out of V3s, do you think that the v4s will sound weird with the V3s -- or it won't make a difference?

Paradigm is the parent company of Anthem. So, it stands to reason that Anthem would be a good match, and you'd most likely be able to demo Anthem amps at your Paradigm dealer.

The Anthem MCA 50 amp sells for about $2000, and you might be able to get a better deal if you buy it from the same dealer you buy your Paradigms from. At 180 watts x 5, you'd have plenty of power for all channels at a price that shouldn't blow the budget you've set.

There's a review that compares the Anthem MCA 50 with Outlaw here: http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/anthem_mca50.htm

If you're interested in Bryston, there's a Bryston 5bst for sale on eBay right now. The 5bst has 120 watts x 3, but it's conservatively rated, and it's more like 150.

The starting bid is $950, and the guy says he has a low reserve. The 5bst goes for about $2450 new - according to audio review. The price of the Bryston 4bst (250 watts x 2) is roughly the same - about $2200 new - and it usually sells for about $1500 used. Therefore, my guess is that his reserve is about $1500.

The seller has good feedback, and the amp has $1000 pay pal protection.

For rear channels, a Bryston 3bst would match the 5bst perfectly, and the 3bst goes for about $800 used.

I should also point out that Brystons are known for being neutral. So, if you play a crappy recording, it won't be very forgiving, but if you want an amp that doesn't color the sound a lot, that's a good thing.

Anyways, just thought I'd let you know.


Thanks for the info ! I will go check out the ANTHEM MCA50 good luck for me i have 3 paradigm dealer near me within 30 miles or less so i should be able to make them compete with one another i havent bought the speakers yet for that very fact that i want to try to get everything from one dealer and try to get the best price possible for buying the speakers and receiver all from them !

I'll offer my dealer $950 for some v3s then I guess. They usually discount 15% off MSRP.

In case they run out of V3s, do you think that the v4s will sound weird with the V3s -- or it won't make a difference?

I posted an email I received from Paradigm on this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=724050&page=2&pp=30

They claim the new should match with the old (but then why buy new?) :D

Even though I've been using a Bi-polar (Def Tech) surround pair, mounted on the sides for years, I may say the "H" with it and for now, just get a used pair of Studio 20s for surround, try mounting them in the rear corners.

Any body use Nad equipment to power there paradigms ? If so how does it match up ?

As long as you have enough power (most receivers do this fine) to drive your speakers the brand of amplification matters very little.

Nick

Amplification is more then just about power, it's also about control.

Simply put, the better the amp, the better the speakers will sound. You have to be the judge yourself of what "better" means and where the price/tradeoff point makes sense. Yes, that $10,000 seperate amp & preamp will sound better on Paradigms then the $100 receiver. But only you can judge if it's worth the extra money.

Most Paradigm speakers have always been fairly 'easy' to drive, meaning that you don't need much power to get them to reasonably high listening levels. This has little to do with how good the result will sound however as I indicated earlier.

Even on my old Paradigm 11se's (circa 1991-ish) I noticed a huge difference in sound quality when in the late 90's I went from my (at the time) top of the line Harman Kardon receiver to Mondial Designs Acurus separates. This difference was noticeable even at low to moderate listening levels.

Kal

Amplification is more then just about power, it's also about control.

Simply put, the better the amp, the better the speakers will sound. You have to be the judge yourself of what "better" means and where the price/tradeoff point makes sense. Yes, that $10,000 seperate amp & preamp will sound better on Paradigms then the $100 receiver. But only you can judge if it's worth the extra money.

Most Paradigm speakers have always been fairly 'easy' to drive, meaning that you don't need much power to get them to reasonably high listening levels. This has little to do with how good the result will sound however as I indicated earlier.

Even on my old Paradigm 11se's (circa 1991-ish) I noticed a huge difference in sound quality when in the late 90's I went from my (at the time) top of the line Harman Kardon receiver to Mondial Designs Acurus separates. This difference was noticeable even at low to moderate listening levels.

Kal
Very nice response

My new set-up:

Mains: Studio 60's; v.3
Center: CC-570; v.3
Side & Back: ADP-470's; v.3
Sub: Servo-15; v.2
Receiver: Denon 3806
DVD: Denon 1920
PJ: Sony VPH-1272Q

mmmmmm.......

My new set-up:

Mains: Studio 60's; v.3
Center: CC-570; v.3
Side & Back: ADP-470's; v.3
Sub: Servo-15; v.2
Receiver: Denon 3806
DVD: Denon 1920
PJ: Sony VPH-1272Q

mmmmmm.......


Hey nice set up there ! That is pretty much the set-up i am looking into getting i havent decided between 40's or 60's for my front ! But i have The denon 3802 looking to get the newest model and i also have the 1920 dvd player ! What speakers did you audition before you made your choice on paradigms ? I currently have some old klipsch ref 3's and personaly cant wait to get the new paradigms i liked the klipsch at first but have grown to hate them but thats just me i guess ! I have auditioned monitor audio, dynaudio, polk, revel, b&w and focal oh and paradigm of course. And i pretty much liked them all except the polks but in the end my final two choices were between the ma's and paradigm for value vs sound reasons i felt you got more for your money with paradigm and Monitor audio than you did with the other speakers i mentioned ! So any how im going to go with paradigm i think there surrounds sound better and for me i am mainly going to do more hometheater !

My new set-up:

Mains: Studio 60's; v.3
Center: CC-570; v.3
Side & Back: ADP-470's; v.3
Sub: Servo-15; v.2
Receiver: Denon 3806
DVD: Denon 1920
PJ: Sony VPH-1272Q

mmmmmm.......

Congrats. You should have years of enjoyment.

What speakers did you audition before you made your choice on paradigms ? !

I auditioned Klipsch (RF25&RF35), Boston Acoustics(VR3), Polk(RTi8, RTi10, LSi15), Paradigm (Phantom, Monitor 7, Studio 40, Studio 60, Studio 100).

I also looked at Axiom, Swan, and Ascend, but just didn't want to deal with shipping.

A lot of my decision was based on the center channel. The CC-570, in my opinion, is absolutely amazing.

I auditioned Klipsch (RF25&RF35), Boston Acoustics(VR3), Polk(RTi8, RTi10, LSi15), Paradigm (Phantom, Monitor 7, Studio 40, Studio 60, Studio 100).

I also looked at Axiom, Swan, and Ascend, but just didn't want to deal with shipping.

A lot of my decision was based on the center channel. The CC-570, in my opinion, is absolutely amazing.


Agreed ! That CC-570 is amazing Enjoy !

You should feel that Servo-15!!

You should feel that Servo-15!!


Man i bet it sounds awesome ! I havent had the chance to hear any paradigm subs yet my theater room is only going to be 14' by 16' with me using the studio 40's for my main speakers do you feel i would be ok with the seismic 12 or do i need the servo-15 i will be doing movies at 60% and music at 40 % ?

Man i bet it sounds awesome ! I havent had the chance to hear any paradigm subs yet my theater room is only going to be 14' by 16' with me using the studio 40's for my main speakers do you feel i would be ok with the seismic 12 or do i need the servo-15 i will be doing movies at 60% and music at 40 % ?

A Seismic 12 would get the job done and should give you enough output for a room that size, but keep in mind to get true low frequency response, you need a big driver, like the Servo-15. I have a Velodyne 15" sub that I use with my Paradigm Signature S4's in a 23' X 13' room and I get flat response down to below 20Hz. Smaller subs typically have very little output below 30Hz.

A Seismic 12 would get the job done and should give you enough output for a room that size, but keep in mind to get true low frequency response, you need a big driver, like the Servo-15. I have a Velodyne 15" sub that I use with my Paradigm Signature S4's in a 23' X 13' room and I get flat response down to below 20Hz. Smaller subs typically have very little output below 30Hz.


Do you think i could get something comparable to the servo-15 for less money with the SVS brand and if so which one ?

Do you think i could get something comparable to the servo-15 for less money with the SVS brand and if so which one ?

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the performance capabilities of the SVS line-up. I know that many people in this forum are very happy with them and I'm sure that if you started a "SVS vs. Paradigm Servo 15" thread in the subwoofer forum you would get all the advice you need. From what I understand, SVS also has very good customer support and you could probably get your question answered by contacting them directly. Good luck!

GP123 -

Just did a little research and it seems like the SVS PB12-Plus/2 would give you very good performance at about half the price of a Servo 15. Keep in mind though that the Servo 15 has electronics in it to minimize distortion (the servo unit), which the SVS does not. This may or may not make an audible difference to you, but it is something to be aware of.

GP123 -

Just did a little research and it seems like the SVS PB12-Plus/2 would give you very good performance at about half the price of a Servo 15. Keep in mind though that the Servo 15 has electronics in it to minimize distortion (the servo unit), which the SVS does not. This may or may not make an audible difference to you, but it is something to be aware of.


Great! Thanks for the Info ! I mean i know at some point a person has to set a price limit but i just dont want to get something and right away so man i wished i would have went with one that was a little more ! Im not sure what the servo cost i thought i read somewhere that it was $2500 and i would really prefer to keep my sub in the 1000 to 1500 range.

GP123 -

It seems like SVS PB12-Plus/2 would be a good option for you. It sells for $1200 and because it uses two 12" drivers, the driver cones have the same surface area as a single 15" driver. So the output capability of the SVS sub should be comprable to the Paradigm sub (there are other factors to consider as well, but I'm just trying to keep it simple). I still recommend that you read up on the sub and seek the opinions of owners here.

Heres on review to start:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVSPB12Plus2p1.php

I like the looks of the new SVS SB12 Plus
May concider trying one I think it would be a nice improvement over my PDR 8

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

I like the looks of the new SVS SB12 Plus
May concider trying one I think it would be a nice improvement over my PDR 8

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

I own a PDR 8 so I can say this, almost anything is better than a PDR 8. Mine is gathering dust. Those SVS's look to be great subs.

Nick

What would you recommend Paradigm-wise for a 20'X10' room? I have my 50" plasma at one end and need to upgrade the speakers. I'm thinking of going to a 3:1 and/or 5:1. I've heard SVS subs and really like the sound and was thinking of going with one of those. I'm open to other brands (including Paradigm) for the sub. Thanks.

Ojready - How much do you want to spend?

I'd say about $1200 for the 3:1 and $1600 or so for the 5:1. I'd like to know what would work best for the room, first, and then go from there. I don't want the most expensive/loudest ones.....just what would sound best. Thanks.

I'd say about $1200 for the 3:1 and $1600 or so for the 5:1. I'd like to know what would work best for the room, first, and then go from there. I don't want the most expensive/loudest ones.....just what would sound best. Thanks.

Sorry, need a bit more clarification. You are looking for three speaker system for $1200 or a five speaker system for $1600? Do those budgets include a sub? If so, I'll have to defer to other Paradigm owners as I'm not familiar with their entry level lines.

I'd say about $1200 for the 3:1 and $1600 or so for the 5:1. I'd like to know what would work best for the room, first, and then go from there. I don't want the most expensive/loudest ones.....just what would sound best. Thanks.
At that price point I would suggest Monitor 7s and a CC370 for your front stage and Mini Monitors for your surrounds. They sound very good together and with a decent reciever/amp will fill your room nicely. As for the .1, you might have to expand you budget a little.

I auditioned a set of studio 20s and mini-monitors a couple Saturdays ago and was very impressed with both models. To my ears, there was extremely little difference between the two types. Maybe slightly more volume out of the studios but nothing to justify significantly more money. I bought a pair of mini-monitors for surrounds and will either buy a couple M3s or M5s for fronts. :)

I recently bought a pair of studio 100 v.3 and CC 570. I'm powering them with an Arcam 300. The sounds is amazingly clear and distinct.

The only thing is.. when I have the volume turned up and there's a scene in movies where there's an explosion (IE. V for Vendetta when Parliament is is blown up) the speakers distort the sound and there is just loud crackling popping sound instead of the actual explosion.

Are my speakers damaged or is this something that's wrong with my reciever that I can calibrate or something? Or maybe do I need to buy a sub? Or is this happening because the speakers need more power (in which case I'd have to buy a 2 channel pre-amp)..

Thanks for your help!

Are you running them as "LARGE"? If so, change them to "SMALL". The Studio 100 has a very difficult impedance load in the bass range. If you are listening at high volumes with them set to "LARGE", I'd say you are clipping your receiver and you better be careful!

Sharkbait006 -

I don't have any hard facts to back this up, but I have a feeling it is your amp. I had a friend that used to have his Paradigms powered by a Carver amp that the speakers just didn't like. The speakers would do the same thing you describe. However, those same speakers played loudly and cleanly in my system powered by a Denon 5800 AV receiver, even though my Denon is lower powered than the Carver.

I would at least try a different amp or AVR.

I auditioned a set of studio 20s and mini-monitors a couple Saturdays ago and was very impressed with both models. To my ears, there was extremely little difference between the two types. Maybe slightly more volume out of the studios but nothing to justify significantly more money. I bought a pair of mini-monitors for surrounds and will either buy a couple M3s or M5s for fronts. :)I wouldn't do the Monitor 3's. They have an 8" main driver where the center channel, dipoles, and most other Monitor series speakers have a 6 1/2" driver in them. If you want to have your speakers match the best in a surround system, get the Monitor 5's, or any other Monitor series speaker with a 6 1/2" driver.

-K

The only thing is.. when I have the volume turned up and there's a scene in movies where there's an explosion (IE. V for Vendetta when Parliament is is blown up) the speakers distort the sound and there is just loud crackling popping sound instead of the actual explosion.



Speakers and not sub? That sounds like the speakers bottomed out. But, since I did not hear it personally, I can't be sure. When my sub bottomed out I hear crackling popping sound. Last week when my kids and nephews were watching movies, my Boston speakers did the same. The speakers are not broken yet.

If you watched that movie again, turn it down a bit to see if the crackling popping sound disappears.

:) I wouldn't do the Monitor 3's. They have an 8" main driver where the center channel, dipoles, and most other Monitor series speakers have a 6 1/2" driver in them. If you want to have your speakers match the best in a surround system, get the Monitor 5's, or any other Monitor series speaker with a 6 1/2" driver.

-K

So sounds like you are suggesting to not mix the 6 1/2" driver with an 8" driver. I should stay with one sized main driver? Ok....I'll take your word for it, but I don't understand the reasoning. I have heard that having all your speakers of identical make/model is optimal which I guess is along the lines of what you are saying but I don't know enough about this to understand what difference it makes. Has to do with "timber matching" among other things I suppose....

I would like to have some additional info on this.

I recently bought a pair of studio 100 v.3 and CC 570. I'm powering them with an Arcam 300. The sounds is amazingly clear and distinct.

The only thing is.. when I have the volume turned up and there's a scene in movies where there's an explosion (IE. V for Vendetta when Parliament is is blown up) the speakers distort the sound and there is just loud crackling popping sound instead of the actual explosion.

Are my speakers damaged or is this something that's wrong with my reciever that I can calibrate or something? Or maybe do I need to buy a sub? Or is this happening because the speakers need more power (in which case I'd have to buy a 2 channel pre-amp)..
Thanks for your help!

I would suggest a sub and setting your 100's to small. At least for home theater since the 100's are fairly efficient speakers so don't need a lot of power for musical reproduction. Just like any other speaker (except those with built in powered subs) the 100's can not reproduce lows of most LFEs found in todays movies.

Nick

Hi all,

Looking for a little advice. I have the opportunity to purchase some ADP 150's for about a 100$. They are in pretty good condition. Is that a good deal, or would I be better off with something newer?

cheers,

Graeme

:)

So sounds like you are suggesting to not mix the 6 1/2" driver with an 8" driver. I should stay with one sized main driver? Ok....I'll take your word for it, but I don't understand the reasoning. I have heard that having all your speakers of identical make/model is optimal which I guess is along the lines of what you are saying but I don't know enough about this to understand what difference it makes. Has to do with "timber matching" among other things I suppose....

I would like to have some additional info on this.You are exactly right when it comes to timbre matching. Having all drivers the same size, and within the same speaker line will give you the best match possible. Different size drivers will have a little different characteristic and frequency response. So it would work, but it's not ideal. The Monitor 3 and Monitor 9 have 8" drivers, and work best for a two channel situation. As the new Monitor series comes out, they are getting rid of the 8" drivers last I heard, to trim down the line and to make sure all speakers within the series work well together. They will have a couple with 5 1/4" drivers (Atom Monitors come to mind) but most of the rest will be 6 1/2" drivers.

-K

bassbone57:

Thanks for the additional information. One thing I had considered doing is, provided I like the way the mini-monitors perform for surrounds, get two more for use as my fronts and one more for my center channel. That way all five are the same make/model. Or use M5s for the fronts instead of the minis but either way have a mini for CC duties. Any thoughts on this?

bassbone57:

Thanks for the additional information. One thing I had considered doing is, provided I like the way the mini-monitors perform for surrounds, get two more for use as my fronts and one more for my center channel. That way all five are the same make/model. Or use M5s for the fronts instead of the minis but either way have a mini for CC duties. Any thoughts on this?All five speakers being Minis is not a bad idea. Many would say it is ideal. The only snag so you are aware of it, is that the Minis are sold as a pair only. So you may have an oddball speaker just hanging out. The plus side is that if you have a problem with one speaker, you already have a replacement. :D

-K

All five speakers being Minis is not a bad idea. Many would say it is ideal. The only snag so you are aware of it, is that the Minis are sold as a pair only. So you may have an oddball speaker just hanging out. The plus side is that if you have a problem with one speaker, you already have a replacement. :D

-K

Maybe I should just go with a CC-370 for the center channel which costs the same as a pair of minis. Or find one p-dime speaker with a 6 1/2" driver off of ebay for the center channel - like maybe a Titan or Focus.

Maybe I should just go with a CC-370 for the center channel which costs the same as a pair of minis. Or find one p-dime speaker with a 6 1/2" driver off of ebay for the center channel - like maybe a Titan or Focus.Not to confuse you, but the Titan and Focus are from the Performance series, a step down from the Monitor series. You would not want to use those for a center channel at all. If you don't want to buy a pair of Minis, get the CC370. It is the only center channel that is in the Monitor line. The CC270 and CC170 are Performance series. Don't do the Focus and Titan if you want a matched sound up front, they are totally different from anything in the Monitor series.

I don't want to sound like I'm telling you what to do, I'm just trying to help.

-K

I would suggest a sub and setting your 100's to small. At least for home theater since the 100's are fairly efficient speakers so don't need a lot of power for musical reproduction. Just like any other speaker (except those with built in powered subs) the 100's can not reproduce lows of most LFEs found in todays movies.

Nick


So I should set it on Small and not turn up the volume much until I buy my sub?
Are my speakers broken or how would I know?

Maybe I should just go with a CC-370 for the center channel which costs the same as a pair of minis. Or find one p-dime speaker with a 6 1/2" driver off of ebay for the center channel - like maybe a Titan or Focus.
Or you could go with the minis and run a 6.1 setup.

So I should set it on Small and not turn up the volume much until I buy my sub?
Are my speakers broken or how would I know?

While I have no personal experience damaging a speaker, my understanding is that is not very easy to do, especially a woofer. Most receivers will not let set the speakers to small when no sub is connected. There is no cause for concern from a bit of distortion that I can think of. I think you are fine and I would just play the speakers like normal. I might be a bit conservative with the volume if I was playing a movie that had lots of loud LFEs.

Nick

I recently bought a pair of studio 100 v.3 and CC 570. I'm powering them with an Arcam 300. The sounds is amazingly clear and distinct.

The only thing is.. when I have the volume turned up and there's a scene in movies where there's an explosion (IE. V for Vendetta when Parliament is is blown up) the speakers distort the sound and there is just loud crackling popping sound instead of the actual explosion.

Are my speakers damaged or is this something that's wrong with my reciever that I can calibrate or something? Or maybe do I need to buy a sub? Or is this happening because the speakers need more power (in which case I'd have to buy a 2 channel pre-amp)..

Thanks for your help!
I suggest you ensure set the 100's to SMALL (or connect only the high frequency inputs) and disconnect all other speakers from the receiver. Then play the same scene over. If the speakers distort, you probably have blown tweeters, which imo is not too uncommon in Paradigms. On the other hand, if the scene plays clearly, your Arcam is clipping, but your speakers are not yet damaged. A new sub or dedicated amp, whichever floats your boat, would remedy the latter. You can repeat the test with the 570. You might want to verify it's not just the DVD track either, by listening with a pair of headphones or something.

Edit: I posted this before reading page 71 of this thread, so someone may have already suggested all this....

Or you could go with the minis and run a 6.1 setup.Very good idea. I am ashamed I didn't think of that. :o

-K

what does it mean if my reciever is clipping? it seems like this issue comes and goes.

bassbone57:

I appreciate all the recommendations so nothing to worry about. Your feedback has been very helpful.

051473:

Nice thinking with respect to going to 6.1. I am guessing the difference between 5.1 and 6.1 is one "back" speaker??? I don't know if I can do a 6.1 configuration due to physical limitations in my HT room which is a 13 x 13 bedroom with a waterbed and couch in it. The room and furishings don't really lend itself to putting the TV and speakers anywhere I want to unfortunatly. I will be moving in a couple months however so who knows.....

Thanks guys!

what does it mean if my reciever is clipping? it seems like this issue comes and goes.

Clipping means its running out of juice to deliver clean power to drive the speakers. Very dangerous cuz distortion is what fries a driver.

What do I need to buy to prevent this? A power supply? A preamp?

Clipping means its running out of juice to deliver clean power to drive the speakers. Very dangerous cuz distortion is what fries a driver.

Clipping means its running out of juice to deliver clean power to drive the speakers. Very dangerous cuz distortion is what fries a driver.
What does it sound like?

What do I need to buy to prevent this? A power supply? A preamp?

You need a different amp with higher wattage and current capability. Your Arcam is running out of juice.

clipping
What does it sound like?
a scene in movies where there's an explosion (IE. V for Vendetta when Parliament is is blown up) the speakers distort the sound and there is just loud crackling popping sound instead of the actual explosion..

What does it sound like?

burps n' farts

What do I need to buy to prevent this? A power supply? A preamp?

Studio 100's have room sensitivity rating of 91dB. They are very easy to drive and they don't need much power. If you feed them 1000 watts they are still not going to play 20Hz LFEs because just like almost every other speaker they are not designed to do that. People may be trying to help in recommending bigger amps, but they are giving you poor advice. It's not that complicated. If you watch movies one gets a sub to handle the LFEs, sets all the speakers to small and life is beautiful. If it's music only, most folks who own Studio 100's would not bother with a sub. I wouldn't.

Sharkbait, I hope you are able to see through the nonsense and recognize the good stuff in this thread. It's really not that complicated. Good Luck.

Nick

Studio 100's have room sensitivity rating of 91dB. They are very easy to drive and they don't need much power. If you feed them 1000 watts they are still not going to play 20Hz LFEs because just like almost every other speaker they are not designed to do that. People may be trying to help in recommending bigger amps, but they are giving you poor advice. It's not that complicated. If you watch movies one gets a sub to handle the LFEs, sets all the speakers to small and life is beautiful. If it's music only, most folks who own Studio 100's would not bother with a sub. I wouldn't.

Sharkbait, I hope you are able to see through the nonsense and recognize the good stuff in this thread. It's really not that complicated. Good Luck.

Nick
I second that opion.
Under normal to loud listening level, 100 watts of clean power and decent current is all you need to drive the 100s. If you crank it real high on the volume, then you may need more juice. More watts will make it sound cleaner, not louder.
For movies, to get the real LFE, a sub is the only way to go.
For music, the 100s will give you ample bass.

Sharkbait, I hope you are able to see through the nonsense and recognize the good stuff in this thread. It's really not that complicated. Good Luck.

Nick

I wouldn't call the recommendations for a larger amp poor advise or nonsense. At the sound levels it seems that sharkbait wants to listen he's probably going to need more power.

Setting the speakers to "small" is not always the best or only solution.

I wouldn't call the recommendations for a larger amp poor advise or nonsense. At the sound levels it seems that sharkbait wants to listen he's probably going to need more power.

Setting the speakers to "small" is not always the best or only solution.

Setting speakers to small without a sub is impossible with the any equipment I have seen, though they may possibly exist. Low frequencies do require more power, but no matter how much power your feed your speakers, it's not going to allow a speaker to play lower than it's design allows. Speaker design is usually the limiting factor in bass response, not the amount of power you the speaker, most especially with a speaker as efficient as the Studio 100's. A good sub is designed with one thing in mind, play low frequencies and do it well. Get a good one and let it do it's job. A side benefit is that the receiver/amp has less work to do now that it does not have to power the low frequencies that the sub is taking care of.

Nick

Studio 100's have room sensitivity rating of 91dB. They are very easy to drive and they don't need much power. If you feed them 1000 watts they are still not going to play 20Hz LFEs because just like almost every other speaker they are not designed to do that. People may be trying to help in recommending bigger amps, but they are giving you poor advice. It's not that complicated. If you watch movies one gets a sub to handle the LFEs, sets all the speakers to small and life is beautiful. If it's music only, most folks who own Studio 100's would not bother with a sub. I wouldn't.

Sharkbait, I hope you are able to see through the nonsense and recognize the good stuff in this thread. It's really not that complicated. Good Luck.

Nick

Nick, while I wholeheartedly agree with your premise that a big powerful amp is not needed to drive the 100's, if you read sharkbait's original post, it is pretty likely that his amp in indeed incapable of keeping control over them at the volumes he's trying to achieve. Even when using a Denon 5800 AVR, I have never been able to drive the 100's to audible distortion-- even when running them full range at high volumes. In fact, I was able to hit 110dB (at 1 meter) with the 100's on an explosion-heavy action flick being driven by the Denon. But, you simply don't get results like the type described by sharkbait below, unless the amp is losing control of the drivers.

.. when I have the volume turned up and there's a scene in movies where there's an explosion (IE. V for Vendetta when Parliament is is blown up) the speakers distort the sound and there is just loud crackling popping sound instead of the actual explosion.


Setting speakers to small without a sub is impossible with the any equipment I have seen, though they may possibly exist.

Actually, every AVR out there will let you set the speakers to small w/o a sub. The AVR doesn't care if you actually have a sub connected to the preout when you chose small in the speaker set-up, it simply engages the highpass x-over to the speakers set to small.

Setting speakers to small without a sub is impossible with the any equipment I have seen, though they may possibly exist. Low frequencies do require more power, but no matter how much power your feed your speakers, it's not going to allow a speaker to play lower than it's design allows. Speaker design is usually the limiting factor in bass response, not the amount of power you the speaker, most especially with a speaker as efficient as the Studio 100's. A good sub is designed with one thing in mind, play low frequencies and do it well. Get a good one and let it do it's job. A side benefit is that the receiver/amp has less work to do now that it does not have to power the low frequencies that the sub is taking care of.

Nick

Which raises the question of whether or not you really need 100s. From what I've read, the 20s are flat down to about 50hz. Therefore, if you add a sub and crossover at 80hz, what is the advantage of having 100s? The 20s extend well below the crossover point, and a sub can do a better job of low frequencies than the 100s. As for imaging and sound quality, it shouldn't be much different given that they use the same drivers. The 100s give you more bottom end than the 20s, but with a sub, that becomes a moot point. The 100s can handle more power, but that's used by the woofers for the low end, which again, becomes a moot point. I can see the advantage of having 100s for switching over to stereo, but for surround sound.... Also, speaker placement is easier with smaller speakers.

I don't mean to beat up on the 100s. I'm actually considering buying a pair (waiting on the v4s), but if I can get similar results in a 5.1 system using 20s or 40s, 570 and a servo 15, I could put savings towards something else like an Anthem pre/pro. I must admit, however, I like floor standing speakers and the 100s would have the advantage in stereo. Gonna have to chew on it while I'm waiting for the v4s.

Jean - In a way you are right, but you have oversimplified things in your argument. Yes, with a subwoofer in the mix, a speaker like the 100's no longer has to cover the bottom octaves, but the woofers in the 100 are still being used from 300Hz to about 60Hz (if we assume an 80Hz x-over). There is still a lot of energy in that region. While the 20's can technically play down to 50Hz, they will do so with more distortion and less output capability.

Anyway, to make what could be a long explanation short. Use the 20's for small rooms at moderate volumes and go up the line as you want higher output or more extended bass response.

Many AVSers are proponents of using large floor standing speakers and setting the speakers to small in their AVR or prepro because it sounds more dynamic and effortless (because of the lowered distortion).

Jean - In a way you are right, but you have oversimplified things in your argument. Yes, with a subwoofer in the mix, a speaker like the 100's no longer has to cover the bottom octaves, but the woofers in the 100 are still being used from 300Hz to about 60Hz (if we assume an 80Hz x-over). There is still a lot of energy in that region. While the 20's can technically play down to 50Hz, they will do so with more distortion and less output capability.

Anyway, to make what could be a long explanation short. Use the 20's for small rooms at moderate volumes and go up the line as you want higher output or more extended bass response.

Many AVSers are proponents of using large floor standing speakers and setting the speakers to small in their AVR or prepro because it sounds more dynamic and effortless (because of the lowered distortion).

My current system (going on six years now) is the 20's v2 with a Hsu VTF-2 sub crossed over at 80Hz. I have not heard the 60's or the 100's. I certainly have gotten upgradities and I recently auditioned some B&W's and the Studio 40's and they sound darned good. But I get back home and listen to my setup, and think, damn, this sounds great already so I am now channeling my upgradities towards the new small footprint SVS SB12 sub. Not to mention that the new Studio series Version Four will be out soon.

Nick

Jean - In a way you are right, but you have oversimplified things in your argument. Yes, with a subwoofer in the mix, a speaker like the 100's no longer has to cover the bottom octaves, but the woofers in the 100 are still being used from 300Hz to about 60Hz (if we assume an 80Hz x-over). There is still a lot of energy in that region. While the 20's can technically play down to 50Hz, they will do so with more distortion and less output capability.

Anyway, to make what could be a long explanation short. Use the 20's for small rooms at moderate volumes and go up the line as you want higher output or more extended bass response.

Many AVSers are proponents of using large floor standing speakers and setting the speakers to small in their AVR or prepro because it sounds more dynamic and effortless (because of the lowered distortion).

That's a fair point. That's why I tossed in the 40s as an option at the end as well. I saw a sale recently here (http://www.gibbysaudiovideo.com) on 40s - $300 off - which meant they were only 100 bucks more than the 20s.

By the way, that site has Canadian prices on Paradigms and Anthem for any Canadians here that might be interested. I think some of the prices are a bit of a rip though. For example, the MCA 50 is listed at $3000. The American price for the MCA 50 everywhere I've seen is $2000 and they have to pay shipping. On the other hand, this store is close enough to do pick ups. After currency exchange, the MCA 50 should work out to about $2300 Canadian. So, why the extra $700 at a store that doesn't have to pay shipping? You could buy it at an American store, pay to have it shipped back, and still save money. :rolleyes:

As I do research, I'm finding that I may want to just hold off on a new pre/pro for now and just focus on speakers. I was considering an Anthem AVM 30, but it doesn't have HDMI. So, I'd either have to upgrade after just spending several grand, or go with the AVM 40. On top of that, there are other things to consider such as Dolby True HD. So, I'm thinking it might be better to let the dust settle a bit first. If I do hold off on the pre/pro, I'll probably go with the 100s and a CC-690.

Studio 100's have room sensitivity rating of 91dB. They are very easy to drive and they don't need much power. If you feed them 1000 watts they are still not going to play 20Hz LFEs because just like almost every other speaker they are not designed to do that. People may be trying to help in recommending bigger amps, but they are giving you poor advice. It's not that complicated. If you watch movies one gets a sub to handle the LFEs, sets all the speakers to small and life is beautiful. If it's music only, most folks who own Studio 100's would not bother with a sub. I wouldn't.

Sharkbait, I hope you are able to see through the nonsense and recognize the good stuff in this thread. It's really not that complicated. Good Luck.

Nick

Then you have not heard Studio 100's with a good amp....

Studio 100's have an impedance dip to 3 ohms on the v2 and down to 2.5 ohms on the v3. These speakers really sing with an amp that can drive some power at those low impedances.

What's up with this constant "a big amp is poor advice" thing? Why have not you traded in your overpowered receiver for a pre/pro and half a dozen Sonic T amps if all one really needs is a couple of watts with a few in reserve?

A big amp is always a good idea if budget allows. Also unless its a small room, I would definitely recommend floorstanders for the front channels. As others have already explained, a studio 20s rolls off pretty quickly at the low octave. Size is everything !

I have mated Paradigm studio60s v2 with Anthem gear and all my visitors (including some AVS members) have praised its sound. Cant imagine what the v4s or even better the S6 will do. My room is 13x20x8 and 100s are too big in my mind.

Studio 100's have an impedance dip to 3 ohms on the v2 and down to 2.5 ohms on the v3. These speakers really sing with an amp that can drive some power at those low impedances.




Yep, and this topic has been covered before, earlier somewhere in this very thread (who know what page :D )

The Arcam may be having a tough time with that load, but Arcams are held in high reguards by many folks. If yours is the same receiver as mentioned in this review, he uses the Paradigm S8s, which are the higher end version of the 100s:


http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/arcam_diva_avr300.htm

But note he does also use a sub.

I had a problem with my Studio 20s when I owned them. When playing frequency tones from a test CD, they would bottom out at certain tones (way above their roll off rating) Neither my old Thiel CS3s, my Magnepan MMGs, or my current Studio 60s show this problem. But I never heard this problem during regular playback, and posting here, no one else had the same issue.

IMHO, the 20s I owned had a problem, which could of been a parts defect. Doesn’t matter now, they’re gone.

Sharkbait, if you own one of those test cd with frequency sweeps, play it back at reference levels (75-80 dB?) and see if you hear the problem. You may have a bad driver.

Another idea is, can your Arcam adjust the LFE output level, while having no sub? If so, this could cause a problem if that setting is too high, and only shows itself when the signal is being combined with the mains.

Did you buy these new, if so, what is your dealer telling you?

I have to agree with everyone here :D For HT, the bigger the amp the better, and a sub is a must.

Ok, I really appreciate all the advice. It seems like I have some options to look at. One i need to figure out whether or not my speakers are damaged so I'll need to get a hold of a test cd. I did not buy these speakers from a dealer but will be calling the person I bought the speakers from.

And then assuming my speakers arent damaged I should:

1. Buy an Sub to handle the LFEs. Which sub should I get? I probably have $500 to spend here for now but can you give me a sub for $500 and another choice for $1000 if I can allocate enough money for it.

2. Buy an AMP.. I was thinking about the Anthem MCA 20 to drive the two mains so that could be a real possiblity. what do you think? Maybe i'll get a MCA50 later on.

3. From all the reports I've heard, the ARCAM 300 should be able to drive these speakers fine. So maybe the reciever isnt gettin clean power and I should buy a power conditioner?

4. Right now I have the setting set to: Small Speaker, but i dont own a sub yet. The reciever doesnt give me an option to not have a sub in these settings. It says Present next to sub, so I dont know what to do. If I switch the speakers to Large, I can choose not to have a sub.


5. Maybe I'm using the wrong speaker wires? I'm using 16 gauge speaker wires. Maybe i need to get 14 because the wires are 20+ feet each to the mains. Will this make a difference?

6. Should I bi-wire to my mains? There's still two more spots on my reciever that allows for that so maybe this might help?


As you can see, I'm still very new at this and any suggestions you make, I'm just eating up. My budget has been shot because of recent unforseen expenditures I had to make for school so I'm building back up to it.

Thanks for your help!

Yep, and this topic has been covered before, earlier somewhere in this very thread (who know what page :D )

The Arcam may be having a tough time with that load, but Arcams are held in high reguards by many folks. If yours is the same receiver as mentioned in this review, he uses the Paradigm S8s, which are the higher end version of the 100s:


http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/arcam_diva_avr300.htm

But note he does also use a sub.

I had a problem with my Studio 20s when I owned them. When playing frequency tones from a test CD, they would bottom out at certain tones (way above their roll off rating) Neither my old Thiel CS3s, my Magnepan MMGs, or my current Studio 60s show this problem. But I never heard this problem during regular playback, and posting here, no one else had the same issue.

IMHO, the 20s I owned had a problem, which could of been a parts defect. Doesn’t matter now, they’re gone.

Sharkbait, if you own one of those test cd with frequency sweeps, play it back at reference levels (75-80 dB?) and see if you hear the problem. You may have a bad driver.

Another idea is, can your Arcam adjust the LFE output level, while having no sub? If so, this could cause a problem if that setting is too high, and only shows itself when the signal is being combined with the mains.

Did you buy these new, if so, what is your dealer telling you?

I have to agree with everyone here :D For HT, the bigger the amp the better, and a sub is a must.

1. Buy an Sub to handle the LFEs. Which sub should I get? I probably have $500 to spend here for now but can you give me a sub for $500 and another choice for $1000 if I can allocate enough money for it.

You could probably get a decent sub from HSU or SVS for that much, (I own a very old HSU tabletop sub, has worked great for years). If it were me, for that much, I would DIY one. See the DIY audio forum.


2. Buy an AMP.. I was thinking about the Anthem MCA 20 to drive the two mains so that could be a real possiblity. what do you think? Maybe i'll get a MCA50 later on.

I would try to keep all three front speakers on the same brand of amplification, like adding a higher wattage stereo Acram (if it can handle the 100s) or a MCA 30.


4. Right now I have the setting set to: Small Speaker, but i dont own a sub yet. The reciever doesnt give me an option to not have a sub in these settings. It says Present next to sub, so I dont know what to do. If I switch the speakers to Large, I can choose not to have a sub.

I would think, for now, that's what you want. The receiver is outputting the LFE signal to the (unused) LFE output, not to your 100s. Remember that you are rolling off all channels that you have set to "small", you could be losing a lot of bass info this way.

If you can go "large, with a sub", and set the crossover setting for the L/Rs only for 40 hz., that would work too. Hopefully the LFE signal would still bypass the mains.


5. Maybe I'm using the wrong speaker wires?

As far as wiring and power conditioning issues, there are other threads on this,( and heated debate :D ) the wire gauge needed is determined by the length needed. If you go with some fancy-dancy audio wire, see if you can get the manufactuer to give you a recommendation.

I use Liberty Ultracap, mainly due to the in-wall rating. On the 12/4 I use, it states it is good up to 60' for use on main speaker channels (my run is about 45').

I say go for a sub :)

go for a good sub it will give you the most for
your money at this point.

I purchased studio 100s v.3 back in May. Recently I got the Avia DVD to calibrate my system. Going through the 5.1 sound level set-up portion my left speaker made a crackling sound from the tweeter. I switched wires with my right speaker and then my center and the problem continued. It is not bad wires or a bad amp.

The speaker sounds fine with T.V., movies, and music. And the rest of the Avia DVD is no problem. It is only that paticular sound (pink noise I think) that one test produces that gives my left speaker a problem.

My dealer said he would be happy to replace the tweeter but it is a large speaker and quite a drive. Has anyone else experienced one specific sound doing this to a speaker or is my tweeter damaged? This is very strange to me, thanks for any input.

I had the exact same thing happen to me with my 60's, it turned out to be the crossover in my case though. I and the tech both though it was the tweeter but nope. Also it was only with pink noise is when it would come out and rear its ugly head.

hi everyone

I'm about to buy this 5.1 setup but have a question before doing so.

Paradigm Studio 100 x 2
Paradigm CC-570
Paradigm ATOM Surround x 2
Paradigm Ultracube 12 sub

my setup is intended to be 95% for movies and 5% games.

now for my question, I've read many times on this forum that for movies the mains dont matter much, and you should mainly focus on the centre/sub. but since i have a good sub and the top reference centre, should I get the 100s if I have the money? I mean, will 'lesser' mains will sound better than the 100s when it comes to movies, or will the 100s still sound better than anything else in the reference line for mains?

I know my surrounds arent the best but I got them for free and will be upgrading them shortly.

I'm only buying paradigm reference, because I really like them - I just want to make sure the 100s are the best mains in the line for movies. this is a once in a lifetime choice, someone please put my mind at ease. :)

hi everyone

I'm about to buy this 5.1 setup but have a question before doing so.

Paradigm Studio 100 x 2
Paradigm CC-570
Paradigm ATOM Surround x 2
Paradigm Ultracube 12 sub

my setup is intended to be 95% for movies and 5% games.

now for my question, I've read many times on this forum that for movies the mains dont matter much, and you should mainly focus on the centre/sub. but since i have a good sub and the top reference centre, should I get the 100s if I have the money? I mean, will 'lesser' mains will sound better than the 100s when it comes to movies, or will the 100s still sound better than anything else in the reference line for mains?

I know my surrounds arent the best but I got them for free and will be upgrading them shortly.

I'm only buying paradigm reference, because I really like them - I just want to make sure the 100s are the best mains in the line for movies. this is a once in a lifetime choice, someone please put my mind at ease. :)

Personally, I think the 100s would be better for music.

If possible, you should compare the 100s to other Studio speakers before buying. I'd check out the Studio 40s with the CC-570 and a good sub, and then switch the 40s with the 100s. You might also want to check out the Studio 60s, which are about the same price as the 40s with the matching J-Series stands. If you like the set up with the 40s or 60s, you could put the savings into some Studio 20s for your surround speakers. It'd be best for you to determine if the 100s are worth the extra money after listening and having something to compare them to.

Also, the v4s will be out soon with a bigger center speaker, the CC-690, and some features that they've added from the Signature Series. Unless you're getting a really good deal, you may want to wait.

go for a good sub it will give you the most for
your money at this point.

Yeah, I think the sub would give the best bang for the buck too. It'd take some of the work load off the amp and handle the low frequencies better at the same time.

My dealer said he would be happy to replace the tweeter but it is a large speaker and quite a drive. Has anyone else experienced one specific sound doing this to a speaker or is my tweeter damaged? This is very strange to me, thanks for any input.

Is there anyway he will let you pull the tweeter out of the speaker, and take to him as an exchange?

Personally, I think the 100s would be better for music.

If possible, you should compare the 100s to other Studio speakers before buying. I'd check out the Studio 40s with the CC-570 and a good sub, and then switch the 40s with the 100s. You might also want to check out the Studio 60s, which are about the same price as the 40s with the matching J-Series stands. If you like the set up with the 40s or 60s, you could put the savings into some Studio 20s for your surround speakers. It'd be best for you to determine if the 100s are worth the extra money after listening and having something to compare them to.

Also, the v4s will be out soon with a bigger center speaker, the CC-690, and some features that they've added from the Signature Series. Unless you're getting a really good deal, you may want to wait.

thank you for your reply, I had no idea about the v4s coming soon, so it might be best to wait a bit. hopefully they sound as good. the CC-690 looks like a monster speaker

In regards to the 100s, just to clarify, would it be best to try the 40s/60s only because of the cost, because I will be adding better surrounds in a couple of weeks regardless of the mains I get. money is no problem, but if the 40s/60s will possibly offer me a better movie experience I will definately go out and compare them. I think this is what you mean.

thanks very much, it is appreciated

thank you for your reply, I had no idea about the v4s coming soon, so it might be best to wait a bit. hopefully they sound as good. the CC-690 looks like a monster speaker

In regards to the 100s, just to clarify, would it be best to try the 40s/60s only because of the cost, because I will be adding better surrounds in a couple of weeks regardless of the mains I get. money is no problem, but if the 40s/60s will possibly offer me a better movie experience I will definately go out and compare them. I think this is what you mean.

thanks very much, it is appreciated

I wasn't sure what your budget was, but if money is no problem, the 100s would be a good choice. The 100s will extend lower and handle more power. However, you'll still need a sub to get the bottom end. When you combine the mains with a sub, the 100s would probably still give you better low mids, but I don't think the difference would mean that getting the 100s would be as advantageous as putting the money into other areas. Aside from having better surrounds, you may also want to consider another sub. I think the Servo 15 would be a better match for the Studios.

Cost not being an issue, I think the best Studio set up would be:

Main: Studio 100s $2500
Center: CC-690 $1200 + stand
Surround: Studio 20, 40 or ADP 590 $900-$1400
Sub: Servo 15 $2500

So, you'd be looking at least $7100, but considering that the Signature S8s alone are almost that much, that's not bad for a full system. If that blows the budget, however, then it's best to start looking at where you're going to get the best bang for the buck. In my opinion, it'd be better to have 40s or 60s with a really good sub and the 20s or ADPs for surrounds than to spend the extra money on the 100s, but it all depends on how much you want to spend.

There may be other things you want to buy for your system besides speakers, and if that's the case, that will also factor into where you're going to get the best bang for the buck. For example, for a Studio speaker system, an Anthem pre/pro & power amp would be an excellent match, but that'll run another $5000 or more. If you're considering replacing an old AVR and go with the 40s or 60s and a CC-590 instead, for example, you could save a grand, and you could put that towards an Anthem.

Also you should keep the room size in mind. If you're renting, you should go with the system that you want rather than what's best for a place that may be a temporary living arrangement. However, if you own a house and you want to set up a dedicated room, you should take the room size into consideration.

You should also demo the ADPs and the Studio 20s for surrounds to determine whether you prefer direct or dipolar surrounds.

In short, I think it's best to look at everything you want for your system, check it out in person, and then consider where your money will be best spent.

Is there anyway he will let you pull the tweeter out of the speaker, and take to him as an exchange?
Not sure, I will ask.

Is the crossover part of the tweeter assembly? If the problem is the x-over as n8dogg suggested, will replacing the tweeter assembly replace the x-over?

Not sure, I will ask.

Is the crossover part of the tweeter assembly? If the problem is the x-over as n8dogg suggested, will replacing the tweeter assembly replace the x-over?

Doesn't appear to be, on my Studio 60v3s. I guess if you felt adventurous, you could switch tweeters between the two speakers. Just 4 screws and two spade clips on each.

thank you for your reply, I had no idea about the v4s coming soon, so it might be best to wait a bit. hopefully they sound as good. the CC-690 looks like a monster speaker

In regards to the 100s, just to clarify, would it be best to try the 40s/60s only because of the cost, because I will be adding better surrounds in a couple of weeks regardless of the mains I get. money is no problem, but if the 40s/60s will possibly offer me a better movie experience I will definately go out and compare them. I think this is what you mean.

thanks very much, it is appreciated

I think Jean Poutine has pretty much nailed it with his advice.

The main difference between the 100's and the next model down (the 60's) is there dynamic (loudness) capability and their low frequency extension (which you won't be using if paired with a sub).

I own Paradigm S4's (very similar to the 40's) paired with a 15" Velodyne sub, and the combo plays louder (while still remaining clean and undistorted) than I will ever need. I opted to go with the S4's over the floorstanding S8's because even though I could afford the larger speakers, I didn't need them. The money I saved took some of the load off of buying a new TV and an HD DVD player.

FYI - My room is 23' X 13' X 9'.

Happy to say I will be soon be a Paradigm owner (Studio 60 v3, cc570 v3, adp470 v3). The dealer has a demo pr I was able to get at 71% of retail. Now I need a sub and looking for some recommendations I should audition based on some of your experiences.

My room is 19'w x 18'6"d x 7'6"h. I am trying to keep the cost down to cc 1200. My listening habits are 50/50 movie/music. The music quality is more important to me than the amount of bass. I am using a Rotel 1056 avr and hope to upgrade to seperates later.

I was considering a Martin Logan or REL based on some comments I have seen and past experiences. But am I overlooking some others you have had good success with?

The Servo-15 is a very musical, punchy, powerful (but sizeable) subwoofer. I listened to a friend's HSU, but definitely prefer the Servo.

J.

The Servo-15 is an AWESOME sub, but about double of what crg wants to spend though.

-K

You can get a used Servo for well under $1000. I found one in near mint condition in Chicago for $800 and bought a new grille from Paradigm for $30.

J.

Jean, thank you so much. that really opens my eyes in regards to my options - truly a huge help. I will thankfully have a dedicated room, which I am currently fixing up. will be 11' by x' - undecided on width yet.

I am tempted to wait for the v4's, however in the meantime I will definately go and check out all of the v3 stuff to work out if the 100s are really necessary.

thanks also hifisponge - as per yours and jeans advice I'm really starting to understand why smaller can be better. it certainly would be wise to go with 40s and put the savings towards a bigger sub or better amp - especially given my room size. looking foward to doing tests soon :)

thanks again guys, I can't wait to be a Paradigm owner

You can get a used Servo for well under $1000. I found one in near mint condition in Chicago for $800 and bought a new grille from Paradigm for $30.

J.That is a good deal for a used Servo. Is that for a used v.1 or v.2?

-K

It's a v1, but it happened to be in the light cherry finish which matched the rest of my setup. Actually, UPS dropped the (massive) box during shipping and dented the rear bottom corner of the Servo. It was a small dent...only cosmetic, but the box was trashed. They ended up salvaging the sub and selling it to me for $165.

Not too shabby...

J.

That Servo sounds like it was a great deal. A used sub (Servo being one of them) is something I have my eye on but finding that good ones, by the time you add shipping are too close to the retail to make it a good value; or in the case of the Servo overbudget. I haven't given up on the idea, but I'm not hopeful.

It's a v1, but it happened to be in the light cherry finish which matched the rest of my setup. Actually, UPS dropped the (massive) box during shipping and dented the rear bottom corner of the Servo. It was a small dent...only cosmetic, but the box was trashed. They ended up salvaging the sub and selling it to me for $165.

Not too shabby...

J.The sub is so big, the one that I got had a hand cutout in the side of the box torn, and I watched it come straight off the shipping palet. It was in the middle of other speakers and all wrapped up. I guess it happened at Paradigm, so it goes to show shipping those things are very, very tough. They are not fun to carry. :D

-K

Just picked up my first "real" set of speakers for my home theatre and couldn't be happier.

Monitor 7 x2, CC-370, and ADP-370 x2.

I've auditioned a couple of receivers in my home so far (Yamaha RX659, NAD T753), but wasn't completely satisfied with either. The Yamaha sounded great with movies, but didn't come close to the NAD on music. The NAD, on the other hand, handled movie dialogue very well, but was lacking when it came to more intense movie scenes.

Anyone have any recommendations for receivers in the same pricerange (500-1k) which would compare favorably to the NAD when it comes to music, but still pack a punch for movie viewing?

I was considering a Martin Logan or REL based on some comments I have seen and past experiences.

Ehh, the Martin Logan subs are decent but not a great value. Anything REL makes is horribly overpriced, and they're cheaper subs just plain are poor performers compared to others in the same price range.

It's tough to beat SVS or Hsu from an output/extension per $ standpoint, even if they give up a little musicality. More musical choices would be sealed, of which there aren't really any in your price range with enough output for good HT (new anyway). A used Paradigm Servo, Velo DD-15, or ACI Maestro would be great. Or you could enter the dark world of DIY....

Just picked up my first "real" set of speakers for my home theatre and couldn't be happier.

Monitor 7 x2, CC-370, and ADP-370 x2.

I've auditioned a couple of receivers in my home so far (Yamaha RX659, NAD T753), but wasn't completely satisfied with either. The Yamaha sounded great with movies, but didn't come close to the NAD on music. The NAD, on the other hand, handled movie dialogue very well, but was lacking when it came to more intense movie scenes.

Anyone have any recommendations for receivers in the same pricerange (500-1k) which would compare favorably to the NAD when it comes to music, but still pack a punch for movie viewing?

Denon or Marantz would be two AVR's to check out. I have the Denon 5800 and compared it to the NAD Master Series. I decided to stay with the Denon because the two sounded very similar. Worth a listen anyway.

Doesn't appear to be, on my Studio 60v3s. I guess if you felt adventurous, you could switch tweeters between the two speakers. Just 4 screws and two spade clips on each.

Good idea! I will do that this weekend.

Has anybody used a free standing= (non in-wall) center channel with in wall left/rights?
Long story, but from where a buddy of mine can put his tv it will block the center channel if we did an in-wall, so was thinking about getting a free stander and putting it in the rack the tv is on. Probably like a Salamander Synergy type rack.

Thanks for any help on this...

Maximum7 -

We all have compromises to make and I think you just have to make the best of it. It will help if you are using Paradigm Reference in-walls to go along with a Paradigm Reference free-standing center. Paradigm is generally very good at voicing their different speakers to sound the same within a line.

Cheers,

- Tim

CC270 center
Titan L+R
PSB Alpha rears
Atlantic Tech. 220 sub

All powered by a Sony 3000ES.

HI EVERYBODY

PS Audio UPC-200
Rotel RSP-1068
Rotel RMB-1075
Cambridge Audio Azur 540D
Cambridge Audio Azur 640C v.2
CATCABLES Silvercats
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Paradigm Studio CC570
Paradigm Studio ADP470
Paradigm Ps-1000
Panasonic CT34WX15

Can't wait for Studio Version 4

Any word on Paradigm offering real wood veneers on the version 4's?

J.

So how many Studio V3 owners here plan on upgrading to V4s???

So how many Studio V3 owners here plan on upgrading to V4s???I already sold my Studio 20v3 that I had in a living room a few months ago knowing about the v4 coming. Now I have to decided if I want to get Studio 20v4s or S2v2s.

-K

I already sold my Studio 20v3 that I had in a living room a few months ago knowing about the v4 coming. Now I have to decided if I want to get Studio 20v4s or S2v2s.

-K


Go for the S2V2!

So how many Studio V3 owners here plan on upgrading to V4s???
Just got my Studio 100s v.3 in May. Think my dealer will let me swap them for v.4s?

Go for the S2V2!Oh I want to, there is no doubt, but since the new Studios are almost the old Sigs, they may be the way to go. But the Sigs will still have the better crossover and all the new stuff which you KNOW will sound even better. Also the Studios barely went up but the Sigs took about a $400 jump, so I'll really have to wait and see. Tough decision!!

-K

Just got my Studio 100s v.3 in May. Think my dealer will let me swap them for v.4s?
Our dealer has a 1-year speaker upgrade program where they'll give you back the full amount you paid towards a new pair of speakers. It's another nice feature of buying B&M.

J.

Those are some nice prices for some nice speakers.

J.

That Servo sounds like it was a great deal. A used sub (Servo being one of them) is something I have my eye on but finding that good ones, by the time you add shipping are too close to the retail to make it a good value; or in the case of the Servo overbudget. I haven't given up on the idea, but I'm not hopeful.

I have seen used Servo-15 v.1 priced for slightly under $1K. That's still a lot of $$$, but is it an option? I'm sure there are some out there, still. I have listened my a friend's v.1 (compared to my v.2) it sounds impressive, to me.

The Servo is definitely worth hunting for, especially if you can get it for a good price. Tight, musical, and jaw-dropping low extension and power. All in a nice looking cabinet with a lighted P up front! :D

J.

Picked up my 60s and 570. While at the dealer I heard the Servo. It was less than ideal conditions but seemed to integrate well. I can see why many are enthusiastic about it. I've been checking ebay and audiogon looking for one in NJ/PA area but none yet. Think I'll wait a while longer to see what turns up.
thanks for the tips.

I got my new Servo 15 this week and it is a huge improvement over my Triad in-ceiling bronze 6 powersub. I have 100s and a cc570 in the front and they are just sounding that much better now. One fun thing is figuring out how to keep them from travelling across the floor. I use the servo as a stand for the cc570 so combined they are well over 200 lbs but at the end of one movie we watched the whole setup had moved six inches across the floor. My wife is very happy with the impressive quality of the sound for movie playback and I am wowed by the accuracy of music reproduction with the new sub. Thank you all for creating this site. It has been a big help in building and configuring my system.

When are the v4's supposed to be coming out?

I just got my v3's and thought I got a really good deal (~20% off MSRP). Had I known the v4's were coming out I just must have waited... but I do have a year to upgrade.

When are the v4's supposed to be coming out?

I just got my v3's and thought I got a really good deal (~20% off MSRP). Had I known the v4's were coming out I just must have waited... but I do have a year to upgrade.

I've heard around March, but don't know for sure. You should be fine though.

I got my new Servo 15 this week and it is a huge improvement over my Triad in-ceiling bronze 6 powersub. I have 100s and a cc570 in the front and they are just sounding that much better now. One fun thing is figuring out how to keep them from travelling across the floor. I use the servo as a stand for the cc570 so combined they are well over 200 lbs but at the end of one movie we watched the whole setup had moved six inches across the floor. My wife is very happy with the impressive quality of the sound for movie playback and I am wowed by the accuracy of music reproduction with the new sub. Thank you all for creating this site. It has been a big help in building and configuring my system.

Sounds like the feet are sliding on a smooth surface. I can't imagine that happening on carpet. You could try putting something like rubber under the feet to prevent that.

For the studio v4 coming out aren't they just a watered down version of the signature 1s? Not saying they wont be great speakers but thats just what it seems like to me.

One huge advantage is of course the price difference between the two series.

On a completely different note, has anyone used a pair of 20s as their computer speakers. Thinking of upgrading my crappy 5.1 computer speakers a to a good pair of 2.1 speakers. Would sitting that close be a problem?

How would a pair of s2's sound as computer speakers? Waste of money?

For the studio v4 coming out aren't they just a watered down version of the signature 1s?


Would that not be a good thing? I have not heard the Signatures myself so perhaps others can chime in on this.

Nick

Would that not be a good thing? I have not heard the Signatures myself so perhaps others can chime in on this.

Nick

It should be. Won't know for sure until they hit the street.

Would that not be a good thing? I have not heard the Signatures myself so perhaps others can chime in on this.

Nick
It should be but im just saying for those of use who dont like to play the waiting game, it seems like you can get a slightly upgraded version of the studio 4s right now (signature 1s) at the discounted prices that are already showing up in certain places.

The Signature series is still going to have better crossovers and a nicer enclosure. But for the buck, I think the new Studio v4s are going to be huge. I can't wait!

Also remember the new Studio series is going to have aluminium cones in the midrange drivers instead of the mica-polymer cones in the current Sigs, so there will be a difference. A lot of the better sound in the Sigs can be attributed to the crossovers.

-K

Anyone out there driving their Paradigms with an SET. tube amp? I had the opportunity to hear an SET (Cary Audio 300SE 15W) for the first time last night
driving a pair of Vandersteen 1C's.. WOW.

Quick question -what is the recomended space thet 40's V.3 should be from the back wall & what is the minium they should be apart ?
My dealer said since they are front ported they could go right up against the wall
Thanks

Quick question -what is the recomended space thet 40's V.3 should be from the back wall & what is the minium they should be apart ?
My dealer said since they are front ported they could go right up against the wall
Afraid your dealer doesn't know what he's talking about. It's not just the position of the port that'll affect placement. Putting any speaker too close to the wall (unless it's specifically meant to do so) will change the way it sounds as the closer you go the speaker will start to use the wall as a large baffle (wall loading).

Every room is different, but try it for yourself: Go see your dealer and try the speakers placed up against the wall and then pull them out 2-3 feet and see if you hear a difference.

What's the minimum? Who knows. Every room is different. By playing around you'll probably see that the ideal position will likely be somewhere between 1-3 feet into the room (but don't quote me on this).

Kal

I just received a call from the local Paradigm dealer who states that the Studio Series v4.0 - are available - and can be gotten within 2 weeks. Can anyone verify this? Paradigm itself is of no help in answering anything about this.

I just received a call from the local Paradigm dealer who states that the Studio Series v4.0 - are available - and can be gotten within 2 weeks. Can anyone verify this? Paradigm itself is of no help in answering anything about this.

Do you know anything about the Monitor Series?

Our local dealer said within 30 days for the new Studio line...not that I'm in the market, but it's always good to keep one's options open...;)

J.

I was told not to hold Paradigm to the ship dates. So we'll see...

-K

Paradigm usually answers e-mails in 2-3 days - then with a very vague answer. There's no telephone number to speak with anyone either. So, getting any info. out of them is like pulling teeth.

Paradigm usually answers e-mails in 2-3 days - then with a very vague answer. There's no telephone number to speak with anyone either. So, getting any info. out of them is like pulling teeth.

Try these numbers:

U.S.: (905) 632-0180

Canada: (905) 564-1994

Found them on a Paradigm Brochure.

Thanks Doc (anesthesiologist I presume) - I'll give a call to Paradigm tomorrow

Thanks Doc (anesthesiologist I presume) - I'll give a call to Paradigm tomorrow

just don't call me shirley :D or in the morning :eek:

I just received a call from the local Paradigm dealer who states that the Studio Series v4.0 - are available - and can be gotten within 2 weeks. Can anyone verify this? Paradigm itself is of no help in answering anything about this.


My dealer said first quarter 07.

Our dealer was pretty confident that they'd be in his store within 30 days, though he wouldn't give a definitive answer about the date. I'm not sure why there's so much mystery/hush-hush about their availability, but hopefully they'll live up to the intrigue...:)

J.

Are you in the NY area? Paradigm is always like that with their products. This is how it was whne the SIGS first came out.

Yes, we're located in Long Island (Nasau County), New York.
I just spoke with Gary at Paradigm (905) 632-0180 - - - he confirmed that the Studio Series v4.0 were shipping since last week.

What I want to know is where they are going to dump all the left over Studio v3 stock... I still need ADP470s, but now I'm going to have a real hard time paying MSRP for them.

From what I see, most dealers do not stock the speakers - they order them as needed. The dealer here in New York - said that he ordered the v.3's for someone, however Paradigm did not have any left. So, I'll assume that Paradigm was well in tune with supply/demand - and unless you find leftovers at the local dealer, I don't know how much will be around.

My dealer says the Monitor line is in and the Studio would be in as soon as they sell off the old stock.

From what I see, most dealers do not stock the speakers - they order them as needed. The dealer here in New York - said that he ordered the v.3's for someone, however Paradigm did not have any left. So, I'll assume that Paradigm was well in tune with supply/demand - and unless you find leftovers at the local dealer, I don't know how much will be around.

I've pretty much convinced myself to buy used, when I'm ready.

Debating on if I should pick up some dealer demos now or wait for the new versions.

I can get:

a) Studio 100's v.3 for 69% of MSRP and matching CC570 v.3 for 67% of MSRP

OR

b) Signature S8's v.1 for 66% of MSRP and matching C5 v.1 for 72% of MSRP

Currently have horrible HTiB speakers that are 15+ yrs old and I know I already like the Paradigm sound, just not sure if I should wait for the upgraded versions.

I'm using a Denon 4306.

Any advice?

If I could swing the Sigs without too much smackdown on my wallet (and from my wife), I'd definitely go that route. The Studio line is very, very nice and I'm sure the v4's will be very impressive, but the Sigs are in a league of their own and at that discount it seems like a pretty good move. Their build quality is terrific and the sound is staggering. I remember when our dealer first got them in and I happened to stop down while a Paradigm rep was demoing them and it was just awesome. They had meticulously set everything up and had taken over a whole room at the dealer's shop to showcase those beauties. This was right before I bought my Studio 100's, so needless to say I was disappointed by the unattainable price tag of the Sigs. Nonetheless, I'm still loving my Studio 5.1 setup! :)

J.

Both of those are fabulous deals, if you can really get them. I just asked my own dealer about the level of improvement represented by the Studio V.4's (I currently have the V.3s and a Denon receiver, too) and he didn't think it was a tremendous one -- mostly in driver configuration, he said. Again, though, those are great prices.

Go For The Sigs!!! :d

Both of those are fabulous deals, if you can really get them. I just asked my own dealer about the level of improvement represented by the Studio V.4's (I currently have the V.3s and a Denon receiver, too) and he didn't think it was a tremendous one -- mostly in driver configuration, he said. Again, though, those are great prices.


They are real deals. I made sure I walked out with it all in writing. ;)

Of course, this is assuming some other lucky sap hasn't gone in and bought either set since I was there last Friday afternoon to inquire about the availability of the newer versions.

The Studio's had SOLD tags on them, but when I got to talking they said someone else had been in on Thursday and said they wanted them, but it was late Friday and they'd not called back so they said they would quote them to me.

Everything is a demo item that's been out on the floor. Didn't have time to listen to them at the time as I was on my way elsewhere and was really only looking for the other info.

The Studio's are in the black finish and the right tower has a light "U" shaped scratch on the top towards the back. About two inches long. It's not really deep, but its there nonetheless. The other one looked fine and the center was tucked away in another part of the room and looked fine.

The Sig's are in the Cherry finish and have *almost* no visible damage. On the tops of both towers at the exact same places there are a pair of very small indents in the finish. Almost looks like they were strapped to a dolly and the straps dug in on the edge. You really have to look for them, but again, its there nonetheless.

Spoke to my local dealer today and he said that the 20 v4 and 100 v4 are on display. He is waiting to clear the remaining v3s (which he estimates should be by the end of the month) before he brings the rest of the v4s out.

He said hes selling the signature 1s for around 20% off but sounded like he could be persuaded to take a bit more off.

So now I am facing the same dilemma others are facing, go with the studio v4 or sigs 1. The general consensus seems to be to go with the sigs even though they are an "older" version.

So now I am facing the same dilemma others are facing, go with the studio v4 or sigs 1. The general consensus seems to be to go with the sigs even though they are an "older" version.Sigs, absolutely!!

-K

So now I am facing the same dilemma others are facing, go with the studio v4 or sigs 1. The general consensus seems to be to go with the sigs even though they are an "older" version.

While I'm a Sig owner, and I absolutely love them, I would compare the two lines and let my ears decide.

hey guys i got a quick question, finally bought my cc-370, got my monitor 11's. Going to go with adp's since i want to watch a lot of movies, now here is the new question. I have a couch about 30 inchs high. Now how high do the adp's need to be to sound good, and also how far away from my couch? Also how far should my mains be away from the tv?

I am trying to decide between the Monitor 11s and the Studio 100s. Three friends have Paradigm speakers and I love the sound. The Monitor 11s seem like they would play louder because they are more efficient and I know that they would sound good enough for home theatre use (one friend has the Monitor 7s which are good enough for the L/R speakers in a home theatre) but I want something for music that I will keep for more than a decade. I also heard through another friend that Paradigm are coming out with a very efficient line of speakers, but I don't know when, or where they will be among the lines for sound quality and price. So, I'm wondering whether to wait for those to be released. I'd only be interested in them if they sound as good as the upper end of the Monitor series. I plan to compare the Monitor 11s and the Studio 100s soon to determine if the price difference is worthwhile. Not sure what sort of discounts can be expected off MSRP.

The new version of Paradigm stuff is more efficient by 3db. The new Studio series is shipping very soon, I think probably now. So check them out. I don't know as much about the new Monitor series, but they will be improved sonically I'm sure, but I don't think the new ones look very good.

-K

The specifications for the Studio line are still the same on the Paradigm web site.

The specifications for the Studio line are still the same on the Paradigm web site.They haven't updated the website. You'll know when the new specs are on there. They usually are a little behind the product launch for the website to get updated.

-K

just purchased
front mini monitor withe stands
center cc370
rear atom with stands
sub not sure still researching

I wouldn't worry about playing the 100s loud, Luap. My modest 100W receiver (generously speced) can play the 100s very loud.. Much louder than I would ever listen to them in any situation. If you're really planning on cranking them, then just be sure you get a powerful enough amplifier to drive them, and be careful (that goes with any though of course).

I liked the 100s & 60s sound much better than the 11s, and my wife even heard an obvious difference, so much so that she wanted me to get the 100s, which is surprising coming from her.

Hi i went to a dealer today and listen to minitor5 I like them but there is no studio or signature to listen.

I would like to know what the diffrence between them.

And whats there price (canadien$$$ preferd or Usd) for monitor11.studio100,signature8.
Whit those price its going to give me a good idea what a LCR
would cost me. :)

Thank you for your help

Hi i went to a dealer today and listen to minitor5 I like them but there is no studio or signature to listen.

I would like to know what the diffrence between them.

And whats there price (canadien$$$ preferd or Usd) for monitor11.studio100,signature8.
Whit those price its going to give me a good idea what a LCR
would cost me. :)

Thank you for your help

My local dealer is charging $CAN:

Mini Monitor $449
Monitor 3 $549
Monitor 5 $649
Monitor 7 $799
Monitor 9 $999
Monitor 11 $1199
CC370 $399
ADP370 $749

Studio20 $899
Studio40 $1299
Studio60 $1699
Studio100 $2499
CC-470 $649
CC-570 $899
ADP-470 $999

Thanks DrPainMD is there a big diffrence in sound between
(ex)monitor11 and studio60.
Where i live the only thing i could audition was the monitor5 and
if i want to audition other i have 8hour road trip to and other dealer.

So your help is very appreciate thanks.

You live just south of me i live in the gaspe region :D

Thanks DrPainMD is there a big diffrence in sound between
(ex)monitor11 and studio60.
Where i live the only thing i could audition was the monitor5 and
if i want to audition other i have 8hour road trip to and other dealer.

So your help is very appreciate thanks.

You live just south of me i live in the gaspe region :D

I have only heard the monitors, so I can't compare to the others.

The monitor 5 is basically the monitor 7 but in a bookshelf.

I'm in Moncton,N.B
- those are rough prices from http://www.soundsfantastic.nb.ca/audio-video/index.html

Thank again whit my budget i will go whit the monitor serie :)

Thank again whit my budget i will go whit the monitor serie :)
bonne chance :)
are you getting a subwoofer also? checkout SVS http://www.svsound.com/news-news.cfm

here is my set-up
denon avr 3805
paradigm studio monitors for fronts
cc-450 studio center
adp-470 sides and rears
pw-2200 for subs
my studio monitor are the originals and they kick i love the whole set-up but may upgrade to studio 100s any input on that matter would be appreciated

The sub will have to wait the LCR + reciver $$$ for now
maybe this spring.
Any sugestion on a good reciver for the monitor:)

...my wife even heard an obvious difference, so much so that she wanted me to get the 100s, which is surprising coming from her.When I was looking at simple bookshelves, I was comparing the MiniMonitors and the Studio 20s. I went with my wife and had the exact same experience. She's not big on audio stuff minor listening details in general, but liked the Studios much better than the Monitors.

The moral is if you are trying to convince the wife to get the Studios, take her and she will like them better and be alright with the purchase. :D

-K

I am looking to replace my PDR-8 with either a SVS SB12-Plus or a Velo SPL1200R
any thoughts in if the Velo is worth the extra $$$
I have herd the SVS should blend well with my 40's
The only thing making me lean to the velo is the 6-band automatic digital room equalizer

My local dealer is charging $CAN:

Mini Monitor $449
Monitor 3 $549
Monitor 5 $649
Monitor 7 $799
Monitor 9 $999
Monitor 11 $1199
CC370 $399
ADP370 $749

Studio20 $899
Studio40 $1299
Studio60 $1699
Studio100 $2499
CC-470 $649
CC-570 $899
ADP-470 $999

Those Studio prices are what the v4s go for in USD. If your dealer is selling v4s at that price in Canadian dollars, that's a good deal.

Those Studio prices are what the v4s go for in USD. If your dealer is selling v4s at that price in Canadian dollars, that's a good deal.

Those are v3 Studios and Monitor v4 prices. Probally could be had for less if you wheel and deal.

Hi i went to a dealer today and listen to minitor5 I like them but there is no studio or signature to listen.

I would like to know what the diffrence between them.

And whats there price (canadien$$$ preferd or Usd) for monitor11.studio100,signature8.
Whit those price its going to give me a good idea what a LCR
would cost me. :)

Thank you for your help

I wish Paradigm would just list all dealers within a certain range rather than the closest dealer. That'd make it easier to shop around. However, if you go to the Paradigm site and enter your postal code while specifying reference line, you can find out where the closest Studio/Sig dealer is.

Gibbys Audio Video has Canadian prices for Paradigm speakers listed on their web site, just google it.

The suggested price for the Studio 100 v3s was $2200 USD, and they upped to to $2500 USD for the v4s. At gibbys, the Studio 100 v3 sells for $2700. So, Gibbys will probably sell the Studio 100 v4 for about 3k. If you take the US suggested price and convert it to Canadian dollars, the Studio 100 v3 should be about $2500 and the Studio 100 v4s should be about $2840.

At Gibbys, the Monitor 11s go for $1400, but the prices at that store seem to be a bit high.

The new Sig S8 suggested price is $6500 USD. So, converting that to Canadian dollars, they should be about $7400.

Basically, if you take the suggested US price and convert it to Canadian dollars by using a conservative exchange rate of about 1.14, you should get the price that it should be in Canadian dollars. If it's significantly higher, the dealer is gouging in my opinion. This would be especially true if the dealer is located in the GTA where it is possible to save on shipping charges by doing pickups.

Also keep in mind that you should be able to get a discount of about 10-15%.

I am looking to replace my PDR-8 with either a SVS SB12-Plus or a Velo SPL1200R


Have you not thrown that dang PDR-8 out the window yet? ;) The SB12 has caught my eye.

Nick

I am looking to replace my PDR-8 with either a SVS SB12-Plus or a Velo SPL1200R
any thoughts in if the Velo is worth the extra $$$
I have herd the SVS should blend well with my 40's
The only thing making me lean to the velo is the 6-band automatic digital room equalizer


If you listen to music get the Velo.

I'm very happy with mine.

I do listen to music & it is prefered over HT Dont get me wrong I love HT also but the PDR-8 does an Ok job with HT and NOT so good with music but is the vello worth that extra $500 or so I do have any eye on a used Velo for about $1150 but found some UNauthrized internet salse on the web for $1050 shipped & the SVS is under $800 shipped
Cant wait to throw the PDR Out the window (actualy its on ebay now)

I do listen to music & it is prefered over HT Dont get me wrong I love HT also but the PDR-8 does an Ok job with HT and NOT so good with music but is the vello worth that extra $500 or so I do have any eye on a used Velo for about $1150 but found some UNauthrized internet salse on the web for $1050 shipped & the SVS is under $800 shipped
Cant wait to throw the PDR Out the window (actualy its on ebay now)

To me it's worth the extra $500. Can't say if it's worth it to you.

The suggested price for the Studio 100 v3s was $2200 USD, and they upped to to $2500 USD for the v4s. At gibbys, the Studio 100 v3 sells for $2700. So, Gibbys will probably sell the Studio 100 v4 for about 3k. If you take the US suggested price and convert it to Canadian dollars, the Studio 100 v3 should be about $2500 and the Studio 100 v4s should be about $2840.Paradigm's prices went up in Feb of this year, so the list price for the Studio 100 v3s was $2399. So $2499 for the v.4s isn't really that much more.

-K

Paradigm's prices went up in Feb of this year, so the list price for the Studio 100 v3s was $2399. So $2499 for the v.4s isn't really that much more.

-K

I wasn't aware of that. However, for me, the price of the v4 isn't an issue. They've addressed some of the things that bothered me about the v3s. So, the v4s are worth the additional cost in my opinion. However, suggested retail prices for Paradigm and Anthem are in USD. Therefore, it's useful to convert that to Canadian dollars to get an idea of whether or not Canadian prices are too high.

Not taking a clearance discount into consideration, $2400 USD means that $2700 CND is actually a reasonable price for the 100 v3s.

Thanks to our insane taxes, the usual discount would just knock the taxes off. So, I'd be happy with $2800 including tax for the 100 v4.

$1400 was the list price for the 11s and so are the others listed therte, if this is the store linked to a couple of pages back. Nobody should pay those prices and dealers will likely give you a 10-20% break in the store, if what I've heard from others is correct. Most will not deal over the phone and they may put the list prices on their web site to keep Paradigm happy.

So what do you guys think a decent discount off of MSRP of a dealer's demo Studio V3s would be? 30%? Talked to a rep of my dealer this weekend at one of those home shows, were you tour a group of "McMansions"

He said they expect the Studio v4s in next week, as soon as they come in, the v3 demos go up for sell. All I need are a pair of ADP470s.

Off topic: The majority of the builder/dealer installed home theater systems in these $700 to 1 mil homes were pretty pathetic! mainly in wall audio systems, absolutely no room treatment, and way too boomy bass!

Off topic: The majority of the builder/dealer installed home theater systems in these $700 to 1 mil homes were pretty pathetic! mainly in wall audio systems, absolutely no room treatment, and way too boomy bass!
I can't agree with you more. You go into some of these houses, and everything in the house is top of the line. $50k on kitchen appliances, god knows how much on windows and flooring, and a cheap @$$ $5-8K theater. But, typically HT's don't help a house sell, and can actually hurt them sometimes. But for those of us that love them, it's hard to understand.

-K

One of these homes had a outside patio/pool area, where they used a half dozen or so of these outside speakers, that looked like low voltage spot lights, mounted in the ground. They were complimented by a rock subwoofer. Got to find out the brand, they were the best outdoor system I have ever heard.

A friend got 35% off his Paradigm Studio Monitors a number of years ago, which were floor demos. He got 20% off MSRP on his new system 7 home theatre at another dealer.

Ironically, was going this wk to order & pay for a 5.1 set: Studio 60 in front, CC-470, and Studio 20 in rear. Didn't even know the v4 ws coming out...

Now, should I wait to hear the v4, or since I loved the v3 set-up enough to pay ~$3,100USD, should I just 'demand' an extra 10-15% off that and just go with it?

Can't seem to find any specific info on the v4 Studios on the web... anyone else??

Ironically, was going this wk to order & pay for a 5.1 set: Studio 60 in front, CC-470, and Studio 20 in rear. Didn't even know the v4 ws coming out...

Now, should I wait to hear the v4, or since I loved the v3 set-up enough to pay ~$3,100USD, should I just 'demand' an extra 10-15% off that and just go with it?

Can't seem to find any specific info on the v4 Studios on the web... anyone else??You will probably be able to get a great deal on the v3's that your dealer has. If I were you, I would compare the CC-470 to the CC-570 since you are going with the Studio 60s. I think you will find the CC-570 very worth the difference in price.

-K

My dealer is putting in an order for v.4 studios tomorrow and will have them for demo in
5-10 days. I asked about upgrading my v.3 100s to v.4. I was told I cannot do this. I would have to upgrade to sigs. Has anyone else asked about this? What answer did you get?

I do listen to music & it is prefered over HT Dont get me wrong I love HT also but the PDR-8 does an Ok job with HT and NOT so good with music but is the vello worth that extra $500 or so I do have any eye on a used Velo for about $1150 but found some UNauthrized internet salse on the web for $1050 shipped & the SVS is under $800 shipped
Cant wait to throw the PDR Out the window (actualy its on ebay now)

The reviews are not in yet, but the SB12-Plus should be a kick ass music sub. I don't remember your space requirements antman, but I have a Rocket UFW-10 in a fairly large area and the only thing that is keeping me from getting the SB12 is that the Rocket sounds so damned good! (and I even have a 20% off deal with SVS from a contest.!) The UFW-10 is the most musical sub I have ever heard by far. Food for thought. I still have the PDR-8, and I am waiting for the right "therapeutic" moment to chuck it out the window.

Nick

You will probably be able to get a great deal on the v3's that your dealer has. If I were you, I would compare the CC-470 to the CC-570 since you are going with the Studio 60s. I think you will find the CC-570 very worth the difference in price.

-K

Yeah, stores are selling the v3s at a clearance discount just to get rid of them. So, it should be no problem getting the price reduced.

I also agree that the CC-570 would be worth while. I'm sure the discount on v3s would more than cover the price difference.

3 quick questions-- thanks for the info, Pouline and bassbone...

1) so the 570 is preferable to the cc-470 with the 60s up front? I haven't heard the 570 (dealer only had the 470), but they said the extra bass of the 570 over-drove the mid-range of the 60s too much... not true? (my JBL PB-10 sub needs replacement but I like a lot of mids and highs).

2) dealer in my area doesn't have v3 speakers "in stock" and was going to order them this wk... can I still get a heavy discount if they have to turn to Paradigm corporate to fill the order? I heard Paradigm built them as they were ordered so they didn't keep a lot of backlog inventory.

and 3) flip side, I suppose, is: are they addressing issues in the v3 with the new v4 that make it worth spending a little more than I planned to on the v3 to get the more refined technology? Can't find specifics on the net, but heard repeatedly that the v3 was a big step up from the v2s in both the Studio 60 and 20 line... might this be the same case? I want to keep these a looooong time...

Thanks for your help guys...

A friend got 35% off his Paradigm Studio Monitors a number of years ago, which were floor demos. He got 20% off MSRP on his new system 7 home theatre at another dealer.

Thanks, I would think that 25-30% off isn't asking too much :D (my dealer is kinda tight...)I know I could get more of a discount on Audiogon/Ebay, but having the dealer/manufacturer warranty makes the extra cost worthwhile.

3 quick questions-- thanks for the info, Pouline and bassbone...

1) so the 570 is preferable to the cc-470 with the 60s up front? I haven't heard the 570 (dealer only had the 470), but they said the extra bass of the 570 over-drove the mid-range of the 60s too much... not true?

That probably has more to do with room placement, treatment, and electronics.
In my case, my 570 sits on top of a RPTV, angled down towards the listening area, 18" off the back wall.

It actually sounds leaner in the bass, than my 60s, and that's with all set at a 80 Hz. x-over. But still matches great.

Ironically, was going this wk to order & pay for a 5.1 set: Studio 60 in front, CC-470, and Studio 20 in rear. Didn't even know the v4 ws coming out...

Now, should I wait to hear the v4, or since I loved the v3 set-up enough to pay ~$3,100USD, should I just 'demand' an extra 10-15% off that and just go with it?

Can't seem to find any specific info on the v4 Studios on the web... anyone else??

Wait until you can compare the two, and come back to report to us :D

Actually though the new Studio ADP 590, which replaces the 470(or does it?), is said to be a 5 driver unit, instead of the 470's 4 drivers. For $100 bucks more, I would be interested to see if there is a difference.

An email I received a month ago from Paradigm stated the new would work with the old:

"Hi John

I'm sorry but the actual release date for the next generation of Studio
Series models isn't available at this time.

Please be assured that, even if the ADP-470 v.3 has been replaced when you
are ready to add the surrounds, the version 4 Studio speakers will be
timbre-matched with the earlier models so that they can be combined with
excellent results.

Thanks for choosing Paradigm speakers.

Sincerely,
Gary Takeda
Paradigm Technical Support"

3 quick questions-- thanks for the info, Pouline and bassbone...

1) so the 570 is preferable to the cc-470 with the 60s up front? I haven't heard the 570 (dealer only had the 470), but they said the extra bass of the 570 over-drove the mid-range of the 60s too much... not true? (my JBL PB-10 sub needs replacement but I like a lot of mids and highs).

The CC-590, which replaces the CC-570, is the smallest center speaker in the v4 lineup. There is a new model, the CC-690, which is even bigger and likely intended to be used with the 100s. So, it appears that Paradigm designed the CC-590 for models below the 100s.

2) dealer in my area doesn't have v3 speakers "in stock" and was going to order them this wk... can I still get a heavy discount if they have to turn to Paradigm corporate to fill the order? I heard Paradigm built them as they were ordered so they didn't keep a lot of backlog inventory.

and 3) flip side, I suppose, is: are they addressing issues in the v3 with the new v4 that make it worth spending a little more than I planned to on the v3 to get the more refined technology? Can't find specifics on the net, but heard repeatedly that the v3 was a big step up from the v2s in both the Studio 60 and 20 line... might this be the same case? I want to keep these a looooong time...

Thanks for your help guys...


I would imagine that if Paradigm still has v3s around, they'd want to clear them out too. If you can only get about 10-15% off, however, I think you'd be better off with the v4s. A discount of 10-15% is standard and you can get that with the v4s as well. If they're willing to give you a bigger discount just to get rid of remaining v3s, it'd be worth considering a little more.

The v4s aren't that much extra. You should be able to get v4 60s, 20s and a CC-590 for about $3300 including tax.

This is from a press release:

This fourth-generation of speakers features two significant design upgrades: G-PAL™ gold-anodized pure-aluminum tweeter domes (introduced in the company’s critically acclaimed Signature Series) and S-PAL™ satin-anodized pure-aluminum woofer cones.

MLP™ mica-loaded co-polymer cones, a staple on Studio and Signature midrange and bass/midrange drivers, have been supplanted by a new generation of S-PAL satin-anodized pure-aluminum cones. Chosen for their tremendous high-stiffness-to-low-mass ratio, their silvery aluminum hue is also a crowd-stopping touch – particularly teamed with the stunning gold-anodized dome tweeter.

http://www.castercomm.com/press.cfm?id=113

I wouldn't read too deeply into the sales pitch, but the v4s do inherit some features from the Sigs.

Aesthetically, they also have the nice trim/feet that the Sigs have. They look sharp in my opinion. Here's a pic:

http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/avtour2006/sep14b/paradigm_studiogroup_pg.jpg

You should ask your dealer to crunch two numbers for you: the best deal he'll give you on the v3 set and the best deal he'll give you on the v4 set. Then, you can decide which option you like best.

Wait until you can compare the two, and come back to report to us :D

Actually though the new Studio ADP 590, which replaces the 470(or does it?), is said to be a 5 driver unit, instead of the 470's 4 drivers. For $100 bucks more, I would be interested to see if there is a difference.

An email I received a month ago from Paradigm stated the new would work with the old:

"Hi John

I'm sorry but the actual release date for the next generation of Studio
Series models isn't available at this time.

Please be assured that, even if the ADP-470 v.3 has been replaced when you
are ready to add the surrounds, the version 4 Studio speakers will be
timbre-matched with the earlier models so that they can be combined with
excellent results.

Thanks for choosing Paradigm speakers.

Sincerely,
Gary Takeda
Paradigm Technical Support"

Sounds like government denying some kind of secret operation. We don't know of anything like that, but should it exist, (insert positive spin here).

Sounds like government denying some kind of secret operation. We don't know of anything like that, but should it exist, (insert positive spin here).

LOL :D Isn’t that something. At that time, they had just shown off the new line at the audio show, and evidently were all ready to ship!

Paradigms are great speakers, and I haven't had any service issues from mine. But things like this, along with the two price increases in less then two years, makes me less then totally enthused.