I'm half wrong and you are too. You cannot pass 5.1 thru the hdmi from the dvd. However, i do not have a cable card or hd box and I get some hi-def channels on my basic cable and they do pass DD.

DD is not necessarily 5.1 (as I'm sure many others are going to chime in too.).

The OPPO has the Faroudja chip (presumably the same as the Denon's) and all such players seem to produce the sharpest picture, but as the expense of having some degree of MB'ing (MB has been also reported for the OPPO). Apparantly you did not notice any major degree of MB'ing, correct?In all honesty I brought 2 dvd's with me Finding Nemo and Hellboy...I really did not have much time to really evaluate if they had MB or even Lip Sync...But I have seen MB with the OPPO and my HLN567, but it was not bad...and I know what to look for...I picked the worst time to go to Tweeters 6.30pm, some of the saleman where trying to show customers these new sets...so I didn't want to be in the way...oh well hopefully when I get my Sammy I will be able to give a better reveiw.

No Offense to anyone here, Mexico or Korea, both are not that good to have being built. Oh well. I cant argue with that. As long as they work and work well. I like Japan products better.

You know, of course, Samsung is a Korean company. They have been a second tier manufacturer for decades, most of the Sun Workstation LCD displays are Samsung, for example, all maufactured in Korea.

Lee

What kind of bulb can last 80,oo hours? I don't even think an LED can last that long.

Actually, LEDs have an MTBF of about 100,000 hours.

Lee

In the manuals for the Sony RP-LCDs (and the upcoming SXRDs) there is a specifications page that makes it clear that the HDMI inputs will accept only "two-channel linear PCM" for audio. It would be nice if Samsung also stated this fact explicitly in their manuals or specs. So, the Sony's are ike the Samsungs and don't do 5.1 over HDMI either. Similarly, the inability to take 1080p over HDMI.

Well, the manual does indicate that you must choose either Dolby or PCM for the optical output (if internal mute is set to on) if you have HDMI input. I thought that if you can get a DD signal out, then a DD 5.1 signal would be preserved through the whole path. Based what others have said, I was mistaken. Sorry for my muddying of the waters :)

I am testing multiple DVD players on the TV. Some of them are definitely a better match with this set. I'll be more specific after I get a little further into my testing.
The OPPO has the Faroudja chip (presumably the same as the Denon's) and all such players seem to produce the sharpest picture, but as the expense of having some degree of MB'ing (MB has been also reported for the OPPO). Apparantly you did not notice any major degree of MB'ing, correct?To be fair in a player shootout, you will need to recalibrate the display to each player's output before evaluating its performance. That takes quite a bit of effort.

As an example, all Samsung DLP's demonstrate the "macroblock enhance bug" when connected to Faroudja players. To reduce macroblocking to acceptable levels, the display must be adjusted to use the correct gamma curve (gamma=0 or movie/theater mode) and to use the FULL range of its contrast ratio.

The calibrated/uncalibrated difference can be astounding!

Gary

In all honesty I brought 2 dvd's with me Finding Nemo and Hellboy...I really did not have much time to really evaluate if they had MB or even Lip Sync...But I have seen MB with the OPPO and my HLN567, but it was not bad...and I know what to look for...I picked the worst time to go to Tweeters 6.30pm, some of the saleman where trying to show customers these new sets...so I didn't want to be in the way...oh well hopefully when I get my Sammy I will be able to give a better reveiw.

If you have the opportunity to go back and spend a little time, it would be appreciated. I don't know if you have (or can borrow) Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, but it will definitely bring out video noise and macroblocking problem. I don't know why, it just does.

Star Wars: Attack of the Clones

Looks amazing with the panasonic S97 attached to the 6168. I did not notice any problems.

Thanks to all who replied to my dust question.

I do already have a Blueair 501 in the room with the little dust factories, but it just doesn't catch everything, especially since I have hardwood floors. I could get more of them, but they're not quiet at full speed, and at least as of three or four years ago, companies that claimed they could filter air both well and quietly were generally not entirely honest. I imagine that's probably still the case.

I did investigate the Ionic Breeze when it was first introduced, even though I was wary of any domestic technology by "The Sharper Image." What I found steered me right away. Aside from complaints about static problems, I noted that while conventional HEPA filters advertise the number of square feet of living area they can clean, the Ionic Breeze listed the number of cubic feet of air it could handle: 500. I would have needed two of them to adequately clean the air in my bathroom, at $400 apiece. No thanks. I concluded that electrostatic-only filters were pretty much a novelty, maybe suitable for people with lots of disposable income who don't really have anything worse than ordinary household dust.

I did find references to a "serious" electrostatic filter, but it was extremely expensive and I was unable to find any local sources for them (in the SF Bay Area, no less), so I wasn't able to check them out, and now I don't even remember the brand. I should probably reevaluate what's out there again now.

Looks amazing with the panasonic S97 attached to the 6168. I did not notice any problems.

In my quick test at Magnolia HiFi, I noticed video noise/macroblocking on the S97. Granted it was not ruining the picture, but it was easy to notice. BUT, it was the first time I had used the player AND I did not have enough time to dial in a lot of setting combinations. This player has a noise reduction setting (I think). Did you have to tune the settings to get rid of video noise? I am not questioning your comments, in store test are limited by their very nature. Plus it takes time to become familar with a player. I'm just trying to see if it worth the time and money to buy one to test again.

If you have the opportunity to go back and spend a little time, it would be appreciated. I don't know if you have (or can borrow) Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, but it will definitely bring out video noise and macroblocking problem. I don't know why, it just does.I will see what I can do, my son is into the Star Wars thing I will ask him...Note!!! The Saleman asked me where I got the OPPO because he never heard of this company...and when I told him I paid less than $200 on-line he was really impressed...I have to say the picture was really sharp.

In my quick test at Magnolia HiFi, I noticed video noise/macroblocking on the S97. Granted it was not ruining the picture, but it was easy to notice. BUT, it was the first time I had used the player AND I did not have enough time to dial in a lot of setting combinations. This player has a noise reduction setting (I think). Did you have to tune the settings to get rid of video noise? I am not questioning your comments, in store test are limited by their very nature. Plus it takes time to become familar with a player. I'm just trying to see if it worth the time and money to buy one to test again.

I did change some settings based upon recommendations in post one of the S97 main thread over in the dvd section. I don't notice a lot of stuff that folks post about with regards to images so there may be stuff there that I just don't see. But to my eyes it looked really great. If you know of something specific (chapter, etc?) to look for I can easily do it and try and get some pics of the scenes.

Forgive me please but I've seen so many things regarding 5.1 Yes/No over the past month on these TV's that it keeps getting confusing. Do the two scenarios below work?

OK - 1) So it takes a Cable Card to TV and Optical out to AVR = 5.1 Broadcast Capability?
- 2) HD STB Component to TV and Optical out to AVR = 5.1 Broadcast capability?

Does the DVD Player require the same? HDMI won't pass 5.1 from it? So why bother if it cannot pass when it's supposed to handle 8 channels?

I'm not trying to dispute anyone but it's getting confusing because someone says they have it then they don't and it looks like I may have wasted some money on cables since the sound is nearly as important to me as the PQ - my set looks great with component cables though.

Someone also recommended running a splitter from the wall cable box for improved SD Channels. Does this really work?

Thanks guys :D

To be fair in a player shootout, you will need to recalibrate the display to each player's output before evaluating its performance. That takes quite a bit of effort.

As an example, all Samsung DLP's demonstrate the "macroblock enhance bug" when connected to Faroudja players. To reduce macroblocking to acceptable levels, the display must be adjusted to use the correct gamma curve (gamma=0 or movie/theater mode) and to use the FULL range of its contrast ratio.

The calibrated/uncalibrated difference can be astounding!

Gary

Thanks ... for the suggestions.

The swap on the TV is likely worthless anyway as the TV has only one tuner. The answer is to get cable boxes that had tuner and tuner and use their pip function.

OK - 1) So it takes a Cable Card to TV and Optival out to AVR = 5.1 Broadcast?

Yes 5.1 out of the tv. Also cable from the wall into tv (normal basic cable, sometimes hd channels come across this). Optical out from tv to AVR = 5.1.

- 2) HD STB Component to TV and Optical out to AVR = 5.1 Broadcast?

No 5.1 out of the tv..

Does the DVD Player required the same? HDMI won't pass 5.1 from it? So why bother if it cannot pass when it's supposed to handle 8 channels?

HDMI from any device into this tv does not let 5.1 come out the optical of the tv. I use HDMI from the dvd player to get the upconverting benefit. But I run optical from dvd player to my pre/pro. I run component from cable box to the tv and optical from cable box to pre/pro.

If anyone can tell me how to program the Samsung remote to control the Comcast Motorola 6412 HD box, that would be great!

The Motorola STB/DVR line was originally the General Instruments STB line, and should respond to General Instruments remote signals. Try setting your Samsung to the General Instruments setting in the list of STBs when you set up the Samsung remote. All of the Motorola functions may not be implemented in the GI setting, though. But the basic ones should be implemented.

MikeAllettoBut I run optical from dvd player to my pre/pro. I run component from cable box to the tv and optical from cable box to pre/pro.

A Pre/Pro is a high end AVR isn't it? This won't work with my Yamaha YSP-1 AVR Sound Projector or will it? Thanks for your Help Mike - Much appreciated!

westa: the only "confirmed" 5.1 audio out of the TV's optical output has been using either a cable card or over the air reception.

Thus far, there has been NO "confirmed 5.1 audio out of the TV's optical output using the HDMI input connections.

The posts that you saw today were eventually "confirmed" to be multichannel 2.0 audio coming out of the optical output from the HDMI inputs.

Hope that this helps.

I ordered (2) 6178's from onecall.com on Tuesday, and they were delivered via Fedex Freight 9:00am on Thursday.

Both sets (my brother's & mine) were awesome right out of the box!! I did some minor video tweaking, but I'm waiting for my SpyderTV to arrive next week to do anything serious.

I watched football on ESPNHD and was totally blown away. This is how God wants us to see football!!

I palyed some DVD's and, again, I was amazed at the detail in the picture. There were lip-synch issues on one DVD, but I attribute that to the player (Onkyo SP1000) which is noted to have lip-synching issues.

SD, well, it's SD. It still looks better than on the Sony LCD RPTV it replaced.

Overall, I am very pleased with my buying decision.
:)

A Pre/Pro is a high end AVR isn't it? This won't work with my Yamaha YSP-1 AVR Sound Projector or will it?

Yeah, sorta. Its just a processor with no amp. Your yamaha is a processor, amp and speakers all in one. I have a separate amp and separate processor. The inputs are all basically the same though. For you you'll just go component to the tv from cable box, optical to the yamaha from cable box. Or for dvd hdmi from dvd to the tv. Optical from dvd to the yamaha.

What do you means hands down?
I think that the Samsung 1080p looks better than the Toshiba's. This are my thoughts. No harm done to Toshiba owners.

AS POSTED IN THE DVD FORUM: Yesterday I finally had a chance to test my OPPO I bought for my Sam 6768 whenever it gets released...I went to Tweeter to test the OPPO with a HLR6178...Also got to see a HD950 with this TV...OPPO was the clear winner, sharper/crisp PQ the Samsung 950 seemed like the picture was dull...I did not check for lip/sync which is very important to me. I used the cable supplied by OPPO HDMI/DVI and Tweeters Monster HDMI/HDMI for the Samsung 950...I was surprise to see such a huge difference in PQ...I really did not get a chance to play with these units as there was a lot of customers looking at this Samsung set...I will say one thing people were very interested in the new Sony 3 lcd as well... I really enjoyed watching HD on the new Samsung...can't wait to get mine.
Thanks for this update jwv651. The HDMI cable from Monster is one of the very best in the market today. Hey Monster has yhe best cables and speaker wire for all applications. Expensive but worth it. Some people say that the cable has nothing to do with the quality of the picture. I Say HA wrong again. The cable has a lot to do with the picture quality. Some people even post here that all cables are the same make up, FALSE again. Are they mislead? I think so. I gald that you posted this, just to confirm the the cable makes a world of difference. :) :D

Stay away from those "Ionic Breeze" type units. They can only trap particles that pass through them and they produce ozone. Both the American Lung Association and EPA specifically recommend you do not use these. Consumer Reports also reported how lousy they are. Sharper Image spends a whole lot on marketing. They now have units that supposedly decrease the ozone levels produced and have fans on them to move air (although at very low levels).

What you want is a good HEPA based unit, these actually move the air, exchanging it within a room several times an hour and trap far more particles. The downside, they are noisy when running on high and you need to buy filters every now and then (depending on use). I've had a couple of these for several years and haven't had to replace a filter yet (they do not run 7x24 by any means). Just run it when you aren't watching tv if they noise bothers you.
Great post. :) I agree. ;) Ionic breeze is a rip off and sucks. They dont work. Sharper image sells them for $279.99 each, OUCH!!! :mad: way too much, :( It cost $50.00 to make and does not do the job. You need a unit with a fan to circulate the air in the room, my point exactly. I have two different types depending on the application, room size and traffic of the room. :)

HDMI to TV. TV to Receiver. The receiver is an Onkyo tx-ds939 THX certified. The receiver has an orange light that lights up when its a digital signal.
That is digital and is right, just like mine. I also have an Onkyo 7.1 channel all digital THX ultra receiver. It will go to 5.1, you have to set it on the receiver side. Mine can be set to either 2.1, 5.1 and 7.1 audio. Do you have this set up on your reciever? :)

westa: the only "confirmed" 5.1 audio out of the TV's optical output has been using either a cable card or over the air reception.

Thus far, there has been NO "confirmed 5.1 audio out of the TV's optical output using the HDMI input connections.

The posts that you saw today were eventually "confirmed" to be multichannel 2.0 audio coming out of the optical output from the HDMI inputs.

Hope that this helps.
To All: I want to look at this and fiquire this out. This would suck no 5.1 audio only 2.0, strange that Samsung would build their TV's like this. I will let you know. My TV is here and I am hooking it up now.
It looks great 6178. I love it.

You know, of course, Samsung is a Korean company. They have been a second tier manufacturer for decades, most of the Sun Workstation LCD displays are Samsung, for example, all maufactured in Korea.

Lee
Yes I knew that, I fiquired that all the Samsung TV's are made in Korea. I hear Mexico too. Very impressive, Sun Workstation LCD are samsung, I like that. I know that Samsung is a great product that is why I bought two 6178W and will buy a newer model in 2006/07 when they can get 5.1 audio out.

I think that the Samsung 1080p looks better than the Toshiba's. This are my thoughts. No harm done to Toshiba owners.


Toshiba's 1080P DLP has not started shipping yet, but it's nice to know you think the Samsung looks better.. :rolleyes:

Toshiba's 1080P DLP has not started shipping yet, but it's nice to know you think the Samsung looks better.. :rolleyes:
To be honest with you both might look the same 1080p. Who knows right? Until we see them side by side, but maybe only minor differences. :D

...I went to Tweeter to test the OPPO with a HLR6178...Also got to see a HD950 with this TV...OPPO was the clear winner, sharper/crisp PQ

The OPPO was connected with it's inexpensive DVI/HDMI cable.

... the Samsung 950 seemed like the picture was dull...

The Samsung 950 was connected with the Monster HDMI/HDMI cable.

I used the cable supplied by OPPO HDMI/DVI

... and Tweeters Monster HDMI/HDMI for the Samsung 950...

The difference seems to have been the DVD players and their setup, and not the cables.

I was surprise to see such a huge difference in PQ...

Thanks for this update jwv651. The HDMI cable from Monster is one of the very best in the market today. Hey Monster has yhe best cables and speaker wire for all applications. Expensive but worth it.

For runs of a few meters using DVI, DVI/HDMI, or HDMI cables, there is no evidence that Monster cables buy you anything but bragging rights among those who are impressed by how much an item cost.

I gald that you posted this, just to confirm the the cable makes a world of difference.

I think you got your cables crossed. :)

To All: I want to look at this and fiquire this out. This would suck no 5.1 audio only 2.0, strange that Samsung would build their TV's like this. I will let you know. My TV is here and I am hooking it up now.
It looks great 6178. I love it.

This is the way it's done in TVs from other manufacturers also. This is the norm for now.

My new 6168 just arrived today. I haven't had a lot of time to play with it, but initial viewing of Fellowship of the Ring through an upconverting Toshiba DVD recorder via HDMI looked great. Colors in dark scenes seemed a bit off, but otherwise the picture looks great, and I haven't noticed lip sync issues yet. Cable guy is coming by soon to hook up an HD PVR.

I did have one strange issue. When I first turned on the TV and the "Set up TV Guide" screen came up, there were a couple of lines of black and white static at the very top of the TV. These went away when I dismissed the screen, and didn't show up during the DVDs I viewed. However, when I plugged in my SD TiVo and turned on a Daily Show, I saw the same staticky lines. A couple of other shows also had the same issue, though some didn't, and the TiVo menus themselves looked fine.

Does this mean my set is misadjusted somehow? Is there a way to adjust the picture position?

The Denon DVD-3910 outputs 10 bits over HDMI, DVI maxes out at 8 bits so I would get an HDMI - HDMI cable...This post was made a while back, but I have a question:

HDMI may well be 10-bits, but does the 1080p Samsung support 10 bits? I have found no evidence to suggest that it does. The extra bits are useless unless both the player AND display fully supoort it.

Gary

The HDMI cable from Monster is one of the very best in the market today. Hey Monster has yhe best cables and speaker wire for all applications. Expensive but worth it. Some people say that the cable has nothing to do with the quality of the picture. I Say HA wrong again. The cable has a lot to do with the picture quality. Some people even post here that all cables are the same make up, FALSE again. Are they mislead? I think so.Flamebait, or WHAT?!

StallionRe

All that counts is if the cables work for you and if it doesn't bother you - that you paid the higher premium - if your happy then just enjoy as this type discussion doesn't end (or should I state begins a flame bait as a large number will challenge it and nobody really wins in the end as this discussion pops up periodically and it leads to the same result everytime.

I'm sure we are all hoping you get the best PQ and await your review and we can be confident whether you used a $149 Monster HDMI or we use one for half the price if we both get the same result we both win but the "Better than" simply creates a flamefest as many will chime in here with Engineering Reports that will counter the Monster claims - doesn't mean they aren't excellent tools to use but there are award winning competitors that make the same cable for half the price. Just enjoy your experience the cable thing will only detract from the experience. Go for it and we await your verdict as well as UCSB. :D

StallionRe

All that counts is if the cables work for you and if it doesn't bother you - that you paid the higher premium - if your happy then just enjoy as this type discussion doesn't end (or should I state begins a flame bait as a large number will challenge it and nobody really wins in the end as this discussion pops up periodically and it leads to the same result everytime.

I'm sure we are all hoping you get the best PQ and await your review and we can be confident whether you used a $149 Monster HDMI or we use one for half the price if we both get the same result we both win but the "Better than" simply creates a flamefest as many will chime in here with Engineering Reports that will counter the Monster claims - doesn't mean they aren't excellent tools to use but there are award winning competitors that make the same cable for half the price. Just enjoy your experience the cable thing will only detract from the experience. Go for it and we await your verdict as well as UCSB. :D

Just trying to fan the flames here.

At least I don't ever recall anyone saying the Monster cables aren't good cables. Just expensive. I guess it's like buying a very very very very expensive insurance policy. Did I mention they were very (insanely) expensive. LOL :cool: :D

Thanks for this update jwv651. The HDMI cable from Monster is one of the very best in the market today. Hey Monster has yhe best cables and speaker wire for all applications. Expensive but worth it. Some people say that the cable has nothing to do with the quality of the picture. I Say HA wrong again. The cable has a lot to do with the picture quality. Some people even post here that all cables are the same make up, FALSE again. Are they mislead? I think so. I gald that you posted this, just to confirm the the cable makes a world of difference. :) :DI have never bought a Monster cable...If you want to save some $$$ go to Pacific cables for DVI cable...Ram for HDMI cable and Bluejean cable for speaker and coax cable...much cheaper than Monster and work just as good. :)

At least I don't ever recall anyone saying the Monster cables aren't good cables. Just expensive. I guess it's like buying a very very very very expensive insurance policy. Did I mention they were very (insanely) expensive
My sentiments exactly - Insurance.

When I go through the aisles at CC/BB I simply cannot believe regular consumers pay those prices. I do have some Monster cables but I got them through discount houses like Buy.com or Ecost or Ebay but I would not pay retail. I also have some new ones from RAM one of the forum sponsors.

I think Audioholics had a huge article regarding this controversy that made alot of sense over this ongoing debate. With Monster your guaranteed against the unknown with an off brand we don't normally hear of but I guess their profit margin is right up there with software developers. If it's worth you to have the insurance then it's no big deal it's that persons money but it doesn't mean the PQ will be better than a competitors quality cable. :D

Had a ridiculously busy week, so I'm now almost 8 pages behind. I'll hopefully catch up to you guys over the weekend. :) Sorry if this is redundant with anyone's recent postings, but here are a few notes after several hours of testing a few xbox games on my 5078:

Setup:
--------------------------
xbox ---(toslink:A)--> Denon 1803 AVR
xbox ---(component:V)--> Denon 1803 AVR ---(component:V)--> 5078

1) GAME Mode Basics
As has been noted before, GAME mode only works with 480i signals. For GAME mode to work with the xbox, you have to go to the dashboard, go to settings and turn OFF the settings for 480p, 720p, 1080i. Then and only then will you notice that when you label your input with GAME, the tv immediately blanks the signal for a second and then refreshes the screen with the signal routed via GAME mode. If you switch the label to something else, the tv will blank again and return with a normal signal. If you're switching GAME on and off and the screen doesn't blank every time, you're not sending it a 480i signal.

2) Lag WITHOUT GAME Mode
With the xbox sending 480p, 720p, 1080i (depending on the game of course), I'm able to notice a consistent degree of lag between the time I send a signal with the controller and the time it takes for the screen to display the result of that signal. As expected, the lag seems pretty close to the 100ms range, as has been noted by those delaying their audio.

3) Lag WITH GAME Mode
With the xbox only sending 480i and the tv in GAME mode, the lag is almost imperceptible. I have no way of definitively measuring the change in lag, but my best guess is that GAME mode cuts it at least in half, perhaps more.

4) Example 1: NFL 2K5 (480p game)
I tested this game out in scrimmage mode, and tried out both running and passing plays extensively. However, I spent almost an hour focusing upon kickoffs, as the meter made observations easier. With GAME mode on, I spent a half hour training myself to consistently peg the ball within a 10-square-yard area. Although I'm not a huge football guy, I quickly got into a groove. Then I switched GAME mode off. I instantly noticed the lag: My timing that usually maxed out (or very nearly maxed out) the meter suddenly resulted in me overshooting the meter by, say, 10%. However, within about 5-10 kicks I was able to recalibrate myself to the point where I could consistently max out the meter again. I observed similar results with running and passing, but the difference in lag was definitely not as noticeable without a meter to make it obvious. When not in GAME mode, I was still able to dodge tackles with about the same effectiveness after a few minutes of sensitizing myself to the lag.

5) Example 2: ESPN NHL 2K5 (480p game)
The lag difference was hardly noticeable with this game, although I do not for a second believe that there's any more or less with this game. Hockey is much more of a flow game than football, with typically more space in which to maneuver. In addition, the comparative lack of friction when skating masks many actions that might in another sport be performed more precisely -- a 180-degree change of direction, for example. Hockey is by far my absolute favorite video game sport, and I play 2K5 a ton. For all practical purposes, the lag did not affect my gameplay.

6) Example 3: EA NHL 06 (480i game ... ????)
This game does not have "HDTV 480p" highlighted on the box. It looked like death when I forced the xbox to push only 480i so that I could test using GAME mode. It looked ... well ... interlaced. Horizontal interlacing lines everywhere. Not pretty. But otherwise the game performed flawlessly, as expected. When I let the xbox send out the game in 480p, all was well. Even without GAME mode, the lag had no practical effect upon gameplay.

7) Example 4: Forza Motorsport (480p game)
I tested this one the other day, and haven't yet methodically compared any lag difference. I will do so this weekend. However, I did play it in 480p mode without GAME mode for an hour or two and did not have any practical problems. At first it seemed slightly sluggish (no doubt due to the 100ms lag), but I quickly adjusted and was turning lightning quick laps at Road Atlanta.

8) Upcoming Test: Halo 2

9) Final thoughts:

These 1080p sets will definitely introduce approximately a 100ms video lag to your xbox gaming if you're not in GAME mode. However, how this affects you is in my opinion entirely dependent upon the type of gaming you do. If anticipation is a primary factor of the gameplay, you can adjust -- almost subconsciously. Pure reaction time will definitely suffer, and games that primarily rely upon reflexes may very well give you fits. I don't see a way around that, except for sacrificing graphic quality (for some games) by using GAME mode. An insanely fast FPS or something like DDR would give me trouble, I'm sure. I'll let you know soon how Halo 2 goes. Also, if you do a lot of gaming on different displays (at your place one night, a friend's the next, etc.), you may become frustrated.

But I found that I could easily and quickly "calibrate" myself to the lag and be quite successful and happy with my sports and racing experiences: In all four games I tested, anticipation is such an integral part of the experience, and all I had to do was let myself press a button or make a turn ever so slightly sooner than I used to. Knowing wher the puck is going to be is quite often far more important than knowing where it is -- lesson #1 from Gretzky 101, eh? Same great effect, same happy gamer. :D

More testing to come, and sorry for the long post. But I hope this is helpful to those still wondering what to expect.

The OPPO was connected with it's inexpensive DVI/HDMI cable.



The Samsung 950 was connected with the Monster HDMI/HDMI cable.





The difference seems to have been the DVD players and their setup, and not the cables.





For runs of a few meters using DVI, DVI/HDMI, or HDMI cables, there is no evidence that Monster cables buy you anything but bragging rights among those who are impressed by how much an item cost.



I think you got your cables crossed. :)
EXCUSE ME SIR's, My cables are not crossed. Maybe you dont know the difference between other cables. That is not my fault. It doesnt matter how long the cable run is, Good DVI/HDMI makes a world of difference. You believe your way and I believe my way. Thanks for the Post. I have seen the facts while testing them.

EXCUSE ME SIR's, My cables are not crossed. Maybe you dont know the difference between other cables. That is not my fault. It doesnt matter how long the cable run is, Good DVI/HDMI makes a world of difference. You believe your way and I believe my way. Thanks for the Post. I have seen the facts while testing them.
Please no fireflames, I will drop this cable issue.

OK I got my tv and played with it for 3 hours. I will review on another box.
WOW, what a tv,

Folks: lets not get into a cable debate here.

Those that have technical knowledge know!!!

Those that don't won't be convinced!!!!

I can't imaging that some speaker cables are sold that cost more than ANY of these Samsung TVs.

What a bunch of Charlatans some of these manufacturers are.

xbox game lag initial testing Thanks for the fine work Calbert!
Do you think Xbox 360 will be fine? Since both Samsung and Microsoft have joined in a partnership I would guess part of that partnership is for 360.

Do you plan on getting a felston to resolve that 100ms?:D

Folks: lets not get into a cable debate here.

Those that have technical knowledge know!!!

Those that don't won't be convinced!!!!

I can't imaging that some speaker cables are sold that cost more than ANY of these Samsung TVs.

What a bunch of Charlatans some of these manufacturers are.
You are right, Exactly. Lets move on, This is about the Samsung TV, not cables. I just wanted to mention what cables that I use and what I have found out with other brands, that was all.

Ok I got my TV and played with it for 4 hours. I am ready to rule now and tell you what I think. Mixed reviews. I just dont understand somethings about the 6178, not me, but how Samsung built it. Strange.

Folks: lets not get into a cable debate here.

Those that have technical knowledge know!!!

Those that don't won't be convinced!!!!

I can't imaging that some speaker cables are sold that cost more than ANY of these Samsung TVs.

What a bunch of Charlatans some of these manufacturers are.

I needed to kill some time at work, so I popped over to www.bestbuy.com and priced out some Monster cables. To replace all the cables in my system, I'd need 2 HDMI, 1 component, 3 optical and 2 40' bundles of speaker wire. Using all 4' lengths and the best Monster cables BB sells it came to $599.92 without tax and I'd still be shortchanging myself on speaker wire length but wouldn't be able to afford any more.

I needed to kill some time at work, so I popped over to www.bestbuy.com and priced out some Monster cables. To replace all the cables in my system, I'd need 2 HDMI, 1 component, 3 optical and 2 40' bundles of speaker wire. Using all 4' lengths and the best Monster cables BB sells it came to $599.92 without tax and I'd still be shortchanging myself on speaker wire length but wouldn't be able to afford any more.
You wont be sorry. I bought all mine from www.Monster.com or www.Wildwestelectronics.com, Not a store. You will find better deals online. I think.

Ok I got my TV and played with it for 4 hours. I am ready to rule now and tell you what I think. Mixed reviews. I just dont understand somethings about the 6178, not me, but how Samsung built it. Strange.

Surely, with all the time you have spent talking about cables and tv anticipation, you have more to add than just "mixed reviews". How about what was bad, what you do not understand, and what is strange about your set. Could be informative...

stallion: what are your observations on the 6178?

I finally was able to see a 6178 at Tweeters today. It looked very good and was sitting next to a Mits 61" 720P. I really didn't like the glare on the Mits screen, but the salesman said that the screen was removable. Huh?

The picture on the Sammy looked better than the Mits, but I didn't see a huge difference. From the comments on this board, I guess that I was expecting to see a bigger difference. It could have been the set up, it could have been the source material, but the differences were in the "details." Both had a great picture.

I am thinking seriously about ordering a 6168 from TVA tomorrow. Guess that I will think about it over night.

Does Monster sell an S-video cable that will allow me to hook up my $4k Bose Lifestyle system to my brand new 6168 so that I can have the best picture??? Hehe. Couldn't resist.

Thanks for the fine work Calbert!
Do you think Xbox 360 will be fine? Since both Samsung and Microsoft have joined in a partnership I would guess part of that partnership is for 360.

Do you plan on getting a felston to resolve that 100ms?:D

You do realize that the felston's delay of audio will not help him in this case, don't you? :cool:

Does Monster sell an S-video cable that will allow me to hook up my $4k Bose Lifestyle system to my brand new 6168 so that I can have the best picture??? Hehe. Couldn't resist.
I am pretty sure BOSE only works with DNET (Firewire) on the 68's but I could be wrong :)

You do realize that the felston's delay of audio will not help him in this case, don't you? :cool:Right ... the Felston or an AVR delay setting will help slow down the audio to match the video (regardless of source), but it can't do anything to slow down my xbox controller inputs to match the video. Also note that I'm not an online gamer ... but even if we could delay the controller to match the video lag, I can't imagine that doing so would help for online play.

Westa: I do plan on picking up either a Felston or an upgraded AVR next year ... my current setup (audio from STB routed through tv to AVR, which converts the PCM signal via DTS Neo 6) isn't ideal, but I'm happy for now. I've got true 5.1 DD/DTS from my DVD player, which is what I really care about right now. Have to stop spending money on A/V gear and fork over a hefty chunk of change for a new concrete driveway. :(

As far as the xbox 360 goes, I think it's probably anyone's guess right now how it will perform re: lag with these tv's. Hopefully better, but that's just a hope.

Have a good one!

I finally was able to see a 6178 at Tweeters today. It looked very good and was sitting next to a Mits 61" 720P. I really didn't like the glare on the Mits screen, but the salesman said that the screen was removable. Huh?


The salesman at Fry's in Renton, WA, said the same thing, and indicated the reflection was similar to the 6168 when the screen was removed.

Eric Stahlfeld
Seattle, WA

Fry's had the 6168 displayed in a narrow aisle where I couldn't step back more than 6-7 feet.

Looking at it as best I could, I noticed that the image appeared to have a large, maybe 1.5 feet in diameter, brighter spot when viewed other than close to head-on, and was more noticable when viewed from slightly above the screen. However the spot disappeared (sometimes almost with a sudden snap) and the whole screen appeared brighter when I stepped farther back, or when I crouched down, or when I moved more to the front of the screen.

For those of you have already have a 6168, does your set display this way? Or was this just part of Fry's general lack of ability to have the sets show their best image? I didn't notice this on a 5678 at Magnolia, but that display was set up perhaps a foot higher.

Eric Stahlfeld
Seattle, WA

I now have HD cable hooked up to my 6168, and HD channels look great. However, I'm getting the same weird one-line-of-static across the top when viewing some SD content that I was getting with some shows recorded on my TiVo. Has anyone else encountered this?

I ordered the 6168 a couple weeks ago, so I'm trying to figure out what is the best way to connect the set to my existing Denon 3803 receiver, 2800II DVD player, and D*Tivo. The Denon has two component inputs, one component out, and a bunch of optical inputs.

Several people have indicated that the component connection has a great picture, and I'm wondering what I would gain by using HDMI. I could avoid the hassle of cycling through all inputs by using the 3803 remote and connecting the DVD player and D*Tivo through components. The 6168 would have to scale and/or deinterlace, but all accounts suggest it does a great job at this. The 3803 also can delay each input for up to 200 ms according to the manual, so that should take care of any lag issues.

I think I would lose the ability of the 6168 to remember whatever setting is used for the DVD and D*Tivo. Are people using settings for DVD different from those of other inputs?

I should be able to get all the OTA channels well, so watching them would require cycling through the 6168 to switch inputs.

I'm not planning on upgrading to HD D*Tivo until I figure out what they are going to do -- $500 plus new dish doesn't seem to make much sense right now, if it's going to be obsolete in a year or so.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,

Eric Stahlfeld
Seattle, WA

EricRS

One consideration about using your Denon receiver to switch your DVD player and D*Tivo is how close together in terms of calibration the two components are. If for instance one device has much more color saturation than the other, you would be better off putting them on different inputs and adjust each accordingly. If the two components are close enough to each other, then I don't see that you gain anything putting them on different inputs and mind as well send them through the receiver.

EricRS

I've got the 3803 connected to my 6168 and have decided to keep all video/audio switching in the 3803.

True that the 3803 does not have HDMI, but I compared HDMI directly from my TimeWarner HD box with same HD cable signal run through the 3803 via component and preferred the component. Very hard to tell the difference on higher end signals like INHD, but on something really poor like SD analog cartoon network, the component path looked much better.

Not sure I understand your comment about having to cycle through all of the inputs on the 3803. Using the remote, you have discrete codes to jump directly to the input you want. If you're at the receiver, true you have to spin the dial through everything. But with discrete codes you just push 'DVD' and you get 'DVD' video and audio.

The convenience is a no brainer. The family is fully trained on the 3803 - one button, all video and audio switch together. Love that.

Finally, the 3803 completely takes care of any lip sync phobias you may have. It took me a while to finally notice anything until one night I was watching Conan and noticed that I heard the sharp crack of him slapping his desk just a hair before I saw it. That is the only time I could tell, couldn't tell on normal dialog. Dialed the delay up to 100ms on the 3803 for my cable channel, and it was perfect. You can put different delays on different channels with the 3803 if you need to, so you've got the ultimate in flexibility.

You've got one scenario that is a bit different - catching your OTA. Depending on your sat box, you might receive that there to both integrate it into your sat channel guide as well as to keep everything running through the 3803. If you keep it through the 6168, you'll have 2 modes - OTA and everything else. Not really that big a deal.

6168 and 3803 so far has been a great combination. Enjoy!!

I'm loving my new 5668 more and more each day. Just one non-critical issue with the Samsung's built-in TV Guide feature.

Some background: I've got a CableCard in the 5668 with Comcast Digital cable service, and I'm fully aware that I do not have access to Comcast's interactive channel guide or Comcast's on-demand features because of the one-way nature of the CableCard interface.

Here's what's happening: After the initial TV Guide setup has completed, I get the following message every time I turn on the 5668:

TV Guide On Screen found more than one CableCARD channel lineup in your area. To receive correct program listings, you must select one of the following lineups. Please consult your cable provider if you are unsure which lineup to choose. Please choose your CableCARD lineup from the list below:

- Comcast, Digital (2017)
- Comcast, Digital (2810)
- No Match

I've talked with at least six people at Comcast. Nobody seems to know which channel lineup I should select. The last tech I spoke with told me that because the TV Guide feature is provided by Comcast, I can't access it because I have a CableCard. She said I need to select the "No Match" option from the list above.

I was under the impression that Samsung's TV Guide feature was separate and distinct from the Comcast interactive channel guide. If this is true, shouldn't I be able to access and use the TV Guide feature on my Samsung -- even if I'm using a Comcast CableCard?

Fry's had the 6168 displayed in a narrow aisle where I couldn't step back more than 6-7 feet.

Looking at it as best I could, I noticed that the image appeared to have a large, maybe 1.5 feet in diameter, brighter spot when viewed other than close to head-on, and was more noticable when viewed from slightly above the screen. However the spot disappeared (sometimes almost with a sudden snap) and the whole screen appeared brighter when I stepped farther back, or when I crouched down, or when I moved more to the front of the screen.

For those of you have already have a 6168, does your set display this way? Or was this just part of Fry's general lack of ability to have the sets show their best image? I didn't notice this on a 5678 at Magnolia, but that display was set up perhaps a foot higher.

I think I see what you're talking about. When you are close and off center, it is really obvious that this technology is based on a big ol flashlight pointed out to the user and focused up to look good dead center and a ways back. There is a fairly sharp jump when you move into the 'sweet spot'. Once you're in the cone, it varies much less.

I tried different viewing distances. 6-7 is just way way too close. It gets comfortable to watch at about 8, and I've settled on about 10 feet back as what I like.

Is it possible that the game lag could be fixed in a future firmware update or is this problem more a limitation with the hardware in the current Samsung 1080p DLP's?

How do they update the firmware in these sets?

I have similar selection with my Replay setup, the different selections refer to the station numbers and order in the Guide. My Replay gives you the option of viewing the channel order so you can select the right one. I don't have my 5668 yet so I don't know if this option is available to you. Depending on the area Comast has several lineup selection options depending on the subsription package (I'm in Atlanta, Ga). You also said you have the digital cable package........Why not go all the way to the HD package????????

I'm loving my new 5668 more and more each day. Just one non-critical issue with the Samsung's built-in TV Guide feature.

Some background: I've got a CableCard in the 5668 with Comcast Digital cable service, and I'm fully aware that I do not have access to Comcast's interactive channel guide or Comcast's on-demand features because of the one-way nature of the CableCard interface.

Here's what's happening: After the initial TV Guide setup has completed, I get the following message every time I turn on the 5668:

TV Guide On Screen found more than one CableCARD channel lineup in your area. To receive correct program listings, you must select one of the following lineups. Please consult your cable provider if you are unsure which lineup to choose. Please choose your CableCARD lineup from the list below:

- Comcast, Digital (2017)
- Comcast, Digital (2810)
- No Match

I've talked with at least six people at Comcast. Nobody seems to know which channel lineup I should select. The last tech I spoke with told me that because the TV Guide feature is provided by Comcast, I can't access it because I have a CableCard. She said I need to select the "No Match" option from the list above.

I was under the impression that Samsung's TV Guide feature was separate and distinct from the Comcast interactive channel guide. If this is true, shouldn't I be able to access and use the TV Guide feature on my Samsung -- even if I'm using a Comcast CableCard?

Yes you should be able to use the TV Guide feature. I suggest selecting 1 of the 2 choices and checking the channel numbers to see if they are correct. If they are not, you can go back into the TV Guide setup and select the other one. If neither has the correct channel numbers, you can as a last resort select "No Match" and edit the channel numbers manually in the setup (but that is tedious).

Surely, with all the time you have spent talking about cables and tv anticipation, you have more to add than just "mixed reviews". How about what was bad, what you do not understand, and what is strange about your set. Could be informative...
Of course I do. I was not home to write a review, Hold on ok. I have many things to say about the 6178. I posted that on a seperate post I will post my TV info. First cables then TV's. Since the cable issue is over now I will more on about my tv.

Of course I do. I was not home to write a review, Hold on ok. I have many things to say about the 6178. I posted that on a seperate post I will post my TV info. First cables then TV's. Since the cable issue is over now I will more on about my tv.Looking forward to your review on the 6178 :)

stallion: what are your observations on the 6178?

I finally was able to see a 6178 at Tweeters today. It looked very good and was sitting next to a Mits 61" 720P. I really didn't like the glare on the Mits screen, but the salesman said that the screen was removable. Huh?

The picture on the Sammy looked better than the Mits, but I didn't see a huge difference. From the comments on this board, I guess that I was expecting to see a bigger difference. It could have been the set up, it could have been the source material, but the differences were in the "details." Both had a great picture.

I am thinking seriously about ordering a 6168 from TVA tomorrow. Guess that I will think about it over night.

OK, sit down, shut up and hold on, here is my review for the 6178W TV.

I am real impressed with the look of this tv, :) where the speakers and TV are in one unit. It gives it a cleaner look, a "Classical" look and feel.
1. No Glare, unlike the other makers.
2. Bright, Sharp, and warm picture, very clear too only on the 1080p format.
The other formats, even over the air signal is not great. But HD is AWESOME. I am very impressed. Satelite is awesome, shich I have. You need it for this TV. :eek:
3. Lip sync and lag big time, :mad: but I corrected that with my Onkyo THX ULTRA Reciever. I also mute the TV while listening through my speakers. No lag now.
4. Super quiet fan, no color purple on the wall. Cant see it anyway.
5. It fits real nicely on the Samsung TV stand that I got for it. The one we have be all taking about with deminsions.... The TRX61SB2.
6. The 1080p HDMI works great with the Sony 975V DVD player. better than I have even seen, I am serious about this. Better then my SONY LCD Upsatirs. WOW. When you set the DVD to Cinema 2, it is just like the Movies, but better.
7. It does have PIP, and with one touch of the button. Others claim that this is hard, You touch it once and get the PIP right up. It is the blue button on the far right bottom of the remote. See it. In the menu you have to enable this feature. If not, it wont work. That is the trick to this TV, you have to set everything up in the Menu before the remote can work right. :eek:
8. You have to play with the settings to get the color and picture just right. I am using the Dynamic settings in the day and Movie at night. WOW, the blacks are real black and the whites are real white. The contrast is more than Awesome, compared to the HLN sets. The 68 and 78 series are simply the very best of the best in my book.
9. The clock is a great feature to have. I like that.
10. The sound is awesome, you can change this at 4 different levels. I use the SRS TXT on. Which solves the problem of playing the 5.1 content over two speakers. Subwoffer I have on, and what a difference. It sounds like a stereo 5.1 channel. Set setero on in your TV menu.
11. Digitsl NR, make sure it is on, this reduces the static and ghosting that you have have over the air signal. The ghosting is gone, on mine.
12. Set LNA on for the recepion will be stronger on over the air signal.
13. I wish that this TV had three HDMI imputs, since they seem to work better that all the other imputs.
14. PS2 works great, no lag, or anything as others comment on.

OVERALL: This TV is one of the best that I have ever seen, besides plasma's, but we wont go there, not now and not ever. Anyway, :D This TV is awesome, mine works real well right out of the box. Plasma 61" is how much??? OUCH!!!

The shipping was great. My tv was package well. Foam all the way around and cardboard spindles to protect the screen. Unlike what other people had recieved their TV. I guess the new shippments are better than the old.

WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW. I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

Good job on the cable price. :D There are sure some bargins, out there, but I dont care, I have the money to buy Monster. I also get 60% off Monster cable anyway. So it is cheap for me, ifetime warranty too. Different strokes for different folks.

But everyone is right, when they talk about the price of Monster cables VS. other good brands that work the same. I dont disagree with that at all. :)

What brand cables are you using?

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

Darn. Not fast enough.

Thanks for the extensive report. Good reading.

Is it possible that the game lag could be fixed in a future firmware update or is this problem more a limitation with the hardware in the current Samsung 1080p DLP's?

I have been thinking about this and these are my thoughts:

Whenever a video signal has to be converted to another format it has to take ‘some’ amount of time for the calculations, algorithms, or whatever it does to occur. With the current state of technology, this amount of time is apparently perceptible by the human nervous system. Therefore, at this point in time, I can only see two things that could potentially occur in the future that could eliminate this problem:

1) Technology improves to such a degree that the processing time to calculate the algorithms, etc. in order to convert the video signal is so fast that it is imperceptible by the human nervous system. For instance the CPU that performs the calculations increases in speed, I.E. instead of 3.2GHz now they can process at 20GHz or something in the future.

-OR-

2) The manufacturers of the new generation console develop some type of software driven delay mechanism in their games and/or operating system that will be able to measure the video conversion processing time and correspondingly synchronize the way the game expects the user input instructions for action to occur within the game. This can get tricky for competitive online gaming where one person’s TV causes a different amount of video lag from another’s; however, I have confidence that some programmer may figure out how to do it one day. I just don’t know when that day may come. I have a hard time believing that the mega-intellectuals over at Microsoft and Sony are targeting their next generation consoles with minimum HDTV output formats of 720P and are marketing toward a huge online gaming crowd and have not thought about the differences in video signal processing time on different people’s TV’s. :rolleyes:

Of course, option number 2 is also solved by the console manufacturers enabling the games to output in all available formats (1080P, 1080i, 720P, 480P, 480i, etc). That way, each person simply configures the game to output in their particular TV’s native format and all conversion processing is done within the console itself and therefore the game/console will know exactly how long it needs to ‘handicap’ the instructions received from the controls for each person.

These are just my thoughts on the subject at this point. If anyone recognizes an error in my logic then feel free to point it out. ;)

StallionRe

Do you have the PS2 on component with GAME mode turned on?

What brand cables are you using?

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.
MONSTER cable M series, new series from March, 2005. The best of the best. I also tried composite and Component, which looked like crap. This TV needs the best, but they are other brands than monster that are just as good cheaper too. I am paying for the brand.

Thanks for the extensive report. Good reading.
Your welcome. I promised that I would and I did. I will add more when I find out more.

StallionRe

Do you have the PS2 on component with GAME mode turned on?

Yes, exactly.

No problems at all with PS2. Maybe this set is working the way it is suppose to. I dont know or it is my hook up with Monster cables, Hee-Hee, Just Kidding. I am using component Monster cable for my PS2.

Thanks for the quality feedback StallionRe.

You'd previously mentioned you would have a short viewing distance 5-6' - so how is viewing the 61" at this close range? Just interested because my VD with 6768 will be 9'. Thanks :D

Setup: Samsung 6168; Toshiba RD-XS52 DVD recorder connected via HDMI; Motorola 6412 Comcast PVR connected via component.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the colors on my 6168, but there seems to be a problem with shadowed areas, especially in dark scenes. It's a little hard to describe exactly what it is, but in general medium-shadowed areas seem greenish, flatter, and a little brighter than they should be. For example, the shadowed sides of faces look gray/green instead of a shadowed flesh tone. It's kind of like the effect you get if you take an underexposed photograph and try to brighten it on a computer by turning the gamma up.

I'm seeing this a lot in the darker scenes on the Fellowship of the Ring DVD. In the scene right after they enter Moria, where the screen goes black for a second and then Gandalf lights up his staff the lit side of his face is a fairly saturated yellow, but at a certain point in the partly-lit middle of his face, there's an abrupt transition to a desaturated gray. It's almost like half his face is in black-and-white.

I've tried the different color modes and fiddling with various parameters, but nothing seems to improve it. Also, I don't think this is specific to my DVD player--I think I've seen similar issues from my cable box, although I haven't watched enough dark content on it to be sure.

I remember various people mentioning turning gamma to 0 in the service menu to help with color issues; does that sound like something that would help this kind of problem? Is it something other people are seeing?

They're filled with gas alright.
I lol'd.

Thanks for the quality feedback StallionRe.

You'd previously mentioned you would have a short viewing distance 5-6' - so how is viewing the 61" at this close range? Just interested because my VD with 6768 will be 9'. Thanks :D
Close range is great, WOW, I feel like I am in the TV. I would go no more than 5 feet, this is too close. The only think that I dont understand about this TV is the Pixelation. I can see at times everything the mirrors move.

I think 9 feet is a good distance too, but too far for me. Actually when I sit on my sofa I am about 7 feet, so 9 is not that far at all. You will enjoy it.

Thanks for the quality feedback StallionRe.

You'd previously mentioned you would have a short viewing distance 5-6' - so how is viewing the 61" at this close range? Just interested because my VD with 6768 will be 9'. Thanks :D
You are welcome. I try to help out.

Close range is great, WOW, I feel like I am in the TV. I would go no more than 5 feet, this is too close. The only think that I dont understand about this TV is the Pixelation. I can see at times everything the mirrors move.

In all due respect,..huh? What are you trying to say? That you see pixel structure? Similar to a plasma display for instance? :)

Thanks for the quality feedback StallionRe.

You'd previously mentioned you would have a short viewing distance 5-6' - so how is viewing the 61" at this close range? Just interested because my VD with 6768 will be 9'. Thanks :D


I think many of have taken too many trips to the imax...

9 feet for that size of TV is way too close, not to metion 6 feet!

you won't even be able see the entire screen from that distance... thats just plain stupid.

In all due respect,..huh? What are you trying to say? That you see pixel structure? Similar to a plasma display for instance? :)

I think hes referring to artifacting.

Here's a photo of one aspect of the grayish shadow look I was talking about. (Ignore the blurriness of the photo--I took it without a tripod.) You can clearly see how his face abruptly transitions from bright yellowish-white to greenish-gray.

I don't yet have a picture of the more general problem with shadows in faces in dark scenes--I'll post that later on.

BTW, I see this problem regardless of whether I let the DVD player or the 6168 upconvert.

Here's a photo of one aspect of the grayish shadow look I was talking about. (Ignore the blurriness of the photo--I took it without a tripod.) You can clearly see how his face abruptly transitions from bright yellowish-white to greenish-gray.

I don't yet have a picture of the more general problem with shadows in faces in dark scenes--I'll post that later on.

BTW, I see this problem regardless of whether I let the DVD player or the 6168 upconvert.

I'm no expert, but if you haven't at least ran a video calibration DVD (Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-up or similar) then I think its too early to call this a problem caused by the TV itself. Have you ran a calibration tool yet?

digimat

I beg to differ with you on viewing distance - check the Samsung Manual for the 6768 and THX Calculator I'm within both easily. You must be referencing 4:3 on a CRT? I'm within 3 VD calculators and have tested in the store for hours without an issue. Same distance would be for a plasma also and 1080P in HD will satisfy whether the hell you think it is stupid or not.

My Money and My HT experience not yours. Is Samsung VD calculator wrong or do you know better than the THX settings? I don't think so. I only asked to get his feedback since he reported earlier his VD was going to be 5-6 '.

If it bothers you so much then use the Ignore list if you don't have anything positive to contribute other than insults then the ignore list is in order since the insults aren't appreciated or part of this forum participation.

Plenty of folks view large sets including the Qualia 70" at this distance so what do you say to them that spent $13k for that VD and this Samsung is compared as it's near equal or better by some? No SDE or pixels being reported within 1-2' and clarity should make it similar to a plasma - SD viewing will be fine at 9' and I rarely watch SD so who cares about that. Do you assume every Qualia owner lives in an estate? Plenty report their viewing in the same range and how do you counter that?:D

I think many of have taken too many trips to the imax...

9 feet for that size of TV is way too close, not to metion 6 feet!

you won't even be able see the entire screen from that distance... thats just plain stupid.

The design goal for HD tv is to be able to view the screen at a distance as close as 1.5 X the screen diagonal; this is 7.5 ft for a 60" (5 ft) screen. You may not like to sit that close--it's a very individual matter--but that is what HD tv was created for.

I remember various people mentioning turning gamma to 0 in the service menu to help with color issues; does that sound like something that would help this kind of problem? Is it something other people are seeing?
Setting gamma to zero has worked for a lot of people who own HLN or HLP models. When I had our HLP ISF calibrated the gamma was changed from 2 to zero.

If you change gamma yourself then you should at least calibrate with Digital Video Essentials or Avia. I used DVE before we had the calibration done, but I left gamma set at 2.

I haven't read any reports yet from HLR owners who have changed gamma to zero.

In all due respect,..huh? What are you trying to say? That you see pixel structure? Similar to a plasma display for instance? :)
Sometimes in dark ares, I see black spots, like when the mirrors move or they switch on/off. This could be the signal too. I didnt see it today at all.

Here's a photo of one aspect of the grayish shadow look I was talking about. (Ignore the blurriness of the photo--I took it without a tripod.) You can clearly see how his face abruptly transitions from bright yellowish-white to greenish-gray.

I don't yet have a picture of the more general problem with shadows in faces in dark scenes--I'll post that later on.

BTW, I see this problem regardless of whether I let the DVD player or the 6168 upconvert.

He looks stoned ... well, halfway there, anyway. :eek: Kinda looks cool, but definitely NOT the way you want to view your material everyday. Please let us know how you sort this out. What settings are you running on the TV and DVD player?

Setting gamma to zero has worked for a lot of people who own HLN or HLP models. When I had our HLP ISF calibrated the gamma was changed from 2 to zero.

If you change gamma yourself then you should at least calibrate with Digital Video Essentials or Avia. I used DVE before we had the calibration done, but I left gamma set at 2.

I haven't read any reports yet from HLR owners who have changed gamma to zero.
I left my gamma at zero on the 78 series. This is perfect. 2 made it look different. I didnt like the 2.

I'm no expert, but if you haven't at least ran a video calibration DVD (Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-up or similar) then I think its too early to call this a problem caused by the TV itself. Have you ran a calibration tool yet?

I went through the basic calibration portion of DVE:
-- For brightness, I could never see the outermost stripe (which I guess is BTB--perhaps my DVD player isn't passing it). The innermost stripe was just barely visible at the default brightness of 50, so I left it there.
-- Contrast I couldn't set in the basic portion since this isn't a CRT. I haven't gone through the more advanced version of this yet.
-- For color, red and blue looked perfect, but when looking through the green filter, the middle block of each set of three greens was a different value than the other two. I was unable to compensate for this, even by changing the green value in the "My Colors" menu--turning it all the way down to 0 or all the way up to 100 didn't seem to change the relative values at all.
-- For sharpness, I saw halos around the lines even at 0 sharpness. I turned it up a bit to 25.

Am I missing something with the color settings? Should I be able to get all the green blocks to look the same? The narration on DVE said that my only recourse was likely to turn the overall color setting down to the point where they looked the same, but that didn't seem to work either.

He looks stoned ... well, halfway there, anyway. :eek: Kinda looks cool, but definitely NOT the way you want to view your material everyday. Please let us know how you sort this out. What settings are you running on the TV and DVD player?
To all: regarding the DVD settings, if you have a high end dvd player, which I higher recommend for this type of TV, HDMI. I would use the Cinema 2 setting (Sony 975V) and set all to 1080p. There is a huge difference is setting the DVD to match the TV. I tried every which way.

I left my gamma at zero on the 78 series. This is perfect. 2 made it look different. I didnt like the 2.
Are you saying that your "78" came out of the box set to zero? If so then I think Samsung may have reacted to the calibration work that's been reported in this forum the past two years. :)

If you changed your "78" from a default of 2 to zero and liked the results, then that indicates that the 1080p sets share some characteristics with previous 720p models.

Am I missing something with the color settings? Should I be able to get all the green blocks to look the same?
Our HLP set turned out to have red within an acceptable range of 6,500k. Green was slightly out of range on the high side. Blue was well above 10,000k.

DVE doesn't help gray scale. You need an ISF trained calibrator with Samsung DlP experience for that. There should be reports from the calibrators who have been working with Samsung DLP sets in the next several weeks. The ones to watch for are involved in these two threads.


Just got my Samsung DLP calibrated! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=542709&page=1&pp=30)

SethS Calibrated Our HLP5063 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=548133)

Are you saying that your "78" came out of the box set to zero? If so then I think Samsung may have reacted to the calibration work that's been reported in this forum the past two years. :)

If you changed your "78" from a default of 2 to zero and liked the results, then that indicates that the 1080p sets share some characteristics with previous 720p models.
Yes, Mine is set to zero. I take it that it works like the previous 720p, I bet the same board too, well different to get the 1080p, but on the same principle. I havent seen the board on both to compare. Mine came out of the box at Zero. Why did yours not? I didnt like the setting at 2. It was already set at zero at the factory. They even set me a computer test print out of my TV. This is new. I have never seen this before. It looks like a Diagnois print out of every input, output, color level, contrast, audio levels, etc. The list goes on and on. It is a graph and chart too all in different colors. I am quite impressed with Samsung.

Mine came out of the box at Zero. Why did yours not? I didnt like the setting at 2. It was already set at zero at the factory.
In the early days gamma was set to a variety of values. Then sometime late in the HLN model year (I think) they settled on using gamma = 2. Our early (April 2004) HLP and the later version (October 2004) were both set to gamma = 2 out of the box. I changed the early version to zero, but didn't bother changing the October version.

Our October version was changed to zero when SethS calibrated our set (June 2005).

SethS consults with Samsung and has written a calibration procedure for the HLP sets. He also trains Samsung technicians. Maybe his work played a role in how your TV came out of it's box. :cool:

How do you access the Service menu on the HLR series?

I just got my 6178 today and I've played with it a bit. Here are some points I've found.

1) I have HDMI going from my Time Warner 6300 HD-DVR box straight into the TV. Everything is converted up to 1080i and it looks pretty sharp. HD channels look awesome and SD channels looks just fine (even the non-digital versions are okay).

2) I had my PS2 hooked up at the time so I tried a DVD on it running in regular 480i mode (if anyone has a quick tip to tell me how to get it to run in 720p for DVDs I'd appreciate it and yes I was using the Monstere PS2 Component cables). Anyways, I couldn't get the PS2 DVD player to actually run in true 16:9 as the DVD menu wouldn't let me change it even with the DVD stopped. I tried a few movies from the PS2 in 480i. After watching bits of several movies, my eyes started to hurt from the rainbows. This was because it was running in 480i.

3) I corrected the rainbows experienced above by using my Sony DVD player which *would* actually show the DVD in 16:9 with 720p. As soon as I popped it in 720p, the rainbows were history and my eyes stopped bleeding :p .

4) On the subject of lip-sync, I don't notice that much on HD signals. In fact, I've only see it *really* bad in one place, the DVR playback. I had a recording of G4TV on my DVR and when I played it back the lips were way off. I switched over to the actual live channel and it was fine. I paused the live show, hit rewind a bit on the live show, hit play and it still was fine. *shrug* Looks like the Time Warner 8300 box has some sync issues that I just didn't notice when I was using my SD TV and maybe the 1080i upconvert just made the problem noticable.

5) Over all, I *love* this TV. The constrast is AWESOME. I did notice one thing that an above posted noticed while watching one of the LoTR movies. The color did seem a little faded but this was only in certain scenes of that movie. Other movies looked fine and I thought perhaps that was just the scene because in the very bright outdoors scenes the colors were quite rich. I'll have to go fiddle with the settings some more perhaps and also try the DVD on my Sony DVD player just to make sure it wasn't something funky with my PS2.

6) I haven't tried a game yet since I'm having too much fun just playing with HD so I'm crossing my fingers hoping that it works fine.

7) Oh, btw, when I looked at it in the store, the internal speaker did show horrible lip sync lag. So much that my wife even commented on it. I went to a Mitsu that was sitting nearby, cranked up the sound, and found the same lip sync issue. However, as above, through my receiver the sound & picture are just fine even without adjusting the audio delay.

To all: regarding the DVD settings, if you have a high end dvd player, which I higher recommend for this type of TV, HDMI. I would use the Cinema 2 setting (Sony 975V) and set all to 1080p. There is a huge difference is setting the DVD to match the TV. I tried every which way.
What do you mean set to 1080P? It only accepts up to 1080i on the HDMi input. The vga input is the only one that will accept 1080P.

I was able to get into the service menu on the 6168 with the same code as earlier models (power off, then Mute 1 8 2 Power). I turned the gamma down to 0, which did seem to help a bit with LOTR overall, though it didn't fix the problem in the specific Gandalf scene I posted above.

Also, the first entry in the service menu is a position adjustment--I tweaked the vertical position a few pixels, and the "static" at the top of my SD broadcasts went away. Yay! This confirms my suspicion that it was just a part of the overscan area being shown incorrectly.

I'm going to try getting in touch with a calibrator and seeing if he can come out in the next couple of weeks--it would be nice to see what he can do before my 30 days are up :)

Hi,

Here are my initial impressions of the 6168.

-- Other than the problem with shadow colors I mentioned above, I'm really happy with the picture quality. HD and DVDs look fantastic; SD ranges from poor to acceptable.

-- Brightness is truly excellent, even with some background light.

-- If there is a lip sync issue, it's very subtle. I can convince myself that it's there on my old SD TiVo, but if it's there on DVDs I don't notice. I haven't done an echo test yet, and probably won't unless it starts to bug me during normal viewing.

-- I'm seeing rainbows a lot more than I thought I would, but it doesn't really bother me or my wife so far. (Don't know about my kid -- she's 18 months and can't complain :))

-- We sit about 10' away, but we could easily sit closer, even with DVDs. The picture looks great even up fairly close. I can't see the diamond wobulation pattern unless I'm less than a few inches from the TV.

-- Side-to-side viewing angle is great too.

Overall, I'm quite happy with it so far (especially after fixing the static-at-the-top problem). We'll see what a calibration can do for it.

I'm going to try getting in touch with a calibrator and seeing if he can come out in the next couple of weeks--it would be nice to see what he can do before my 30 days are up :)
Be sure you get a calibrator that knows how to work with Samsung DLPs.

Most people would not want to pay for a calibration on a set that might be returned. I waited seven months. :rolleyes:

I have my SA8300 STB HDMI out connected to HDMI1 on my HLR5678. I have audio from 8300 to my Denon AVR.

If I tune to Music Choice channel and turn Off the HLR, about 1 minute later my 8300 drops the 1080i signal. Power is still on 8300, but no output. I then power on HLR (no output still from 8300), and see message stating:

"Your HDTV does not support HDCP. Please use the YPrPb component connection to watch television."

Anybody understand why the SA8300 signal drops with HLR off? Is it looking to maintain a handshake?

Also, anybody know of a way to get digital audio to HLR??

Thanks!

digimat

I beg to differ with you on viewing distance - check the Samsung Manual for the 6768 and THX Calculator I'm within both easily. You must be referencing 4:3 on a CRT? I'm within 3 VD calculators and have tested in the store for hours without an issue. Same distance would be for a plasma also and 1080P in HD will satisfy whether the hell you think it is stupid or not.

My Money and My HT experience not yours. Is Samsung VD calculator wrong or do you know better than the THX settings? I don't think so. I only asked to get his feedback since he reported earlier his VD was going to be 5-6 '.

If it bothers you so much then use the Ignore list if you don't have anything positive to contribute other than insults then the ignore list is in order since the insults aren't appreciated or part of this forum participation.

Plenty of folks view large sets including the Qualia 70" at this distance so what do you say to them that spent $13k for that VD and this Samsung is compared as it's near equal or better by some? No SDE or pixels being reported within 1-2' and clarity should make it similar to a plasma - SD viewing will be fine at 9' and I rarely watch SD so who cares about that. Do you assume every Qualia owner lives in an estate? Plenty report their viewing in the same range and how do you counter that?:D


Not only are you totally wrong; i can't imagine a sane human being sitting that close to a 6768 for long without giving up on the set with the amount of artifacting and picture noise anyone with decent eyesight will experience. It's laughable. But your whole attitude and vicious attacks on people who probably have much more valid and worthwhile opinions than the nonsense and vitriol you spout is totally unwarranted. If you have a childish disposition that must strike out at people who disagree with you or show you up, stay out of public forums. These are not the right venues for you if you're looking for sympathy or people to agree with you. From what i've seen here, you'll find twenty plus opinions on every subject and that's the way it should be. The more different opinions we read, the more points of view we learn and understand. Nobody needs flamers and harrassers here and anyone should, and will express any opinion they dam well fell like. Get used to it or get lost.

I was able to get into the service menu on the 6168 with the same code as earlier models (power off, then Mute 1 8 2 Power). I turned the gamma down to 0, which did seem to help a bit with LOTR overall, though it didn't fix the problem in the specific Gandalf scene I posted above.

Also, the first entry in the service menu is a position adjustment--I tweaked the vertical position a few pixels, and the "static" at the top of my SD broadcasts went away. Yay! This confirms my suspicion that it was just a part of the overscan area being shown incorrectly.

I'm going to try getting in touch with a calibrator and seeing if he can come out in the next couple of weeks--it would be nice to see what he can do before my 30 days are up :)
Excellent, thanks! My gamma was set to 2, took it to 0. Looks much better. Good to hear you fixed your overscan issue. Too bad there is not a tilt adjustment so I can fix my crooked image.

For example, post #7 in this thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=569295

I'm not sure which message you wanted to point to but your link doesn't seem to hit the target. :)

In the top right hand corner of each message there is a message number. If you click on that first the URL in the address field of your browser will point directly to the selected message.

Tweeter finally installed my 6878 and the rest of my system this weekend.

Samsung HLR 5678W
Yamaha RX-V4600
Polk Audio LSi9 Front Speakers
Pollk Audio LSiC-Center Speaker
Polk LSi7 Rear Speakers
Velodyne DLS-5000R 15" Sub
Sony DVP-NS975V dvd
Sony CDP-CX355 CD jukebox
JVC HR-VP770U VCR (yes I still have one of those)



Like everyone else who has this, I have to agree the PQ is just fantastic! Even SD look great on HDTV, Food Network, etc.

I do have lip sync issues, but my Yamaha has audio delay and I set it to 50 ms for Jay Leno and this seems to work for all the other HD broadcast channels as well. However, "The Incredibles" still had lip sync issues from the Sony 975 DVD. I reset the sync on my 975 to 10ms and that fixed it.

I was concerned about lip sync issues when I designed this system so I got the Yamaha and Sony DVD which both have adjusement capabilities. Unfortunately with the Sony I have to stop the dvd, go into the setup menu and change the audio delay by 10 ms, then start again. With the
Yamaha 4600, I go into the setup in the front panel LED display and play with the audio delay until I get good lip sync

I've got Comcast with their Motorola HD/DVI connected with component video (the Moto box has no hdmi out) to the TV and optical audio into the Yamaha and then out to the Polks and sub (I had a problem with an apparent blown cap in the Velo when it arrived so Tweeter has given me a Mirage loaner and I'm pretty happy with it right now).

Bottom line is that this is a wonderful set with outstanding PQ. BUT be sure you can adjust audio delay in your amp if you are going to run a home theater component system.

Edit: Never mind, I think I figured out what you were getting at for linking directly to a specific post in a thread...
Right. :)

Your comments sound rather hyproctitical to me. How do you explain your continual vicious attacks, negative comments and flaming of Samsung DLP TVs?
For example...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6027401&&#post6027401
If you hate them so much why are you even here yourself in Samsung threads like this one, except to try and stir things up? There seem to be a lot of similarities between anti-Samsung and anti-DLP postings made by you and gazelle (even down to forum join dates).

I don't hate Samsung. I own many of their products and think they are top notch. They also make some products that suck. I imagine most manufacturer's do. I make vicious attacks on no one. You, on the other hand seem to be less than objctive. Checking back on your posts, you seem to troll these boards bashing anyone who dislikes Samsung. Are we to take any of your comments as objective or rational? Probably not. you would almost think you have an unnatural affinity for defending Samsung and bashing people who dislike them. hmmmm....

Well, my setup is finally complete and cleaned up so I can finally join the owners thread :) So far I love my new 6168 but think it may push me over the top to get a new AVR. Thinking Denon 4806.

Anyway, here is a pict - http://www.pbase.com/jakepratt/image/47562634

I would also like to thank the poster who gave info on how to get the service menu up (using power off->Mute->1 8 2 ->power on). I was able to adjust the gamma which made a nice difference.

I have a question though. In the DNIe menu, at the far right near the bottom is an item "DNIe" which is default set to off. I happened to have Discovery HD on which was showing a flyby of green mountains. I set that to "ON" and the image looked much sharper and nicer. At first I thought this was a service menu way to turn on the DNIe demo but the whole screen looked nicer. However, when I power off the set then power it back on and enter the service menu, the gamma is still set at 0 but the DNIe setting is back to OFF. Is DNIe really turned off for some reason by default? Any ideas why this would default to off and how to get it to stay on between power cycles? Also, is there a way to clear the service menu without powering off the set?

Thanks a lot guys. This set is awesome.

Well, my setup is finally complete and cleaned up so I can finally join the owners thread :) So far I love my new 6168 but think it may push me over the top to get a new AVR. Thinking Denon 4806.

Anyway, here is a pict - http://www.pbase.com/jakepratt/image/47562634Your setup looks great...very clean look...Congrats!

Do you mind if I post a disappointment?

I have now viewed the 5668 & 6168 for a few times. The first time was at BB Magnolia, there they have the 5668 and the 6168 side by side. The second time I looked at a 5668 at a different BB Magnolia. The third time was today, when I viewed the 6168 in the Samsung Showroom in the Time Warner Building in Manhattan.

To keep my impression “fair”, I must mention that all 3 stores had their TV’s fed thru the Component inputs. When I asked if I could see how it looks with an HDMI or DVI feed, they told me that because they have to feed so many TVs, they can not do HDMI because that will be very expensive to implement – as per the number of TVs and the length of the cables required.

So for what it worth, this is what it looked like with a component feed.


Having a bad hair day, Samsung?

The problem is most clearly noticeable in the hair. Look at the hair of a person on screen, and I have noticed that many times, or on parts of the head, you could not see each hair, but a whole group of hair, maybe something the size of 1 inch wide of real life hair, will just combine together into a ‘flat’ “group”. You can not see each hair.

The problem is that this situation happens in many other areas. There is a “smoothing up” that is going on, that is taking the detailed picture and blurring it to make it look ‘smooth’.


Call it “The Air Brush Effect”

Looking at the faces on screen, there is a blending going on, it looks like the TV will take the pixels in the nearby area and “mix” them together. I think it was UCSB that noticed something and called it “silk skin” or “silk face” . Well, yeah, kind of. It looks more like the Post Production job the fashion magazine will do after the photographer took the picture. They will take the photograph and use air brush to hide any blemishes and make the skin look very smooth.

The problem is that looking at a TV nearby, the other TVs with a lower then 1080p definition will show more detail and you could see individual hair or a 8 hours after the morning shaving hair on the face.

When I showed that to the Magnolia guy, he was surprised. He said that this is the first time he notices that, and after looking with me for a few moments he said “You know, they all look younger on this TV…” LOL. Absolutely true!

Anyway, the two Magnolia places said that they have DirectTV satellite feed, and that Cable (Time Warner) will surely will look better, because of the compression and decompression that is going on with satellite.

Fine, so off to Samsung Experience showroom I go.

The Samsung 6168 at their showroom showed the same problem. I sat there for about an hour and a half to watch trying to figure out what am I seeing.

The guy there told me that the feed is thru Component. It is a computer feed. They have a computer server with a video file. The file is in a 1080p resolution and that is being fed to all the store. A 1080p file?? OK, whatever.

In any case, the picture showed the same hair problem. The same skin problem. But watching it for a longer time, I noticed more issues.

There was a jazz band playing. I looked at the microphone head. That portion of the mic occupied about 3 inches on the screen. You could say that the mic was life size. The microphone head is made of a netted metal wire, (wire mesh?). You could not see the net, or mesh. It was all a blur. Here is a link to what that microphone suppose to look like: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/164937.jpg. Remember, that head was 3 inches on the screen. How come I cant see it on a HDtv?

Next there was the saxophonist. He was wearing a sweeter that had vertical weaves design. In real life, each pattern was about 1/4 of an inch wide. Looking at that sweeter, there were parts of it that you could tell there were weaves going up and down, but there were parts of the sweeter – about 5 to 10 inches wide – that the whole weaving became a complete blur and it just looked like a flat foggy ‘cloud’. That problem became even larger when the guy moved about 5 or 10 inches forward or backward. For a few seconds the whole sweeter became blurry and foggy. This is not a fast moving object, he was just moving forward or backward when he was blowing a high note and needed to take more air or push his lung harder.

This whole thing of blurring does explain the good reviews this TV gets for showing a SDtv broadcast.

I am not an AVS pro, and I don’t know all the terms and combination of connections, feeds, etc. I do however know what I am seeing. I have been a professional advertising photographer for many years, and know how a technically good picture should technically look like. (contrast, intensity, color balance, dark details, light details, an overall balanced picture, etc. etc. etc.).

So I am disappointed. Because I was planning of buying the 6168 or 6768, and I was looking forward to upgrade from my Philips/Magnavox 27” POS. But this thing is a definite deal killer for me. So I would like to know if this has anything to do with the component input vs. HDMI or DVI input???

Bottom line is. HDTV stands for HIGH DEFINITION TV. Not a “we have thousands of lines and dots of information that we blur and project on a big piece of plastic”. I am not impressed by that. If my POS 27” TV shows me more hair than the 1080p can show me, or if my POS 27” TV can show me the lines on the sweeter, or the metal mesh on the head of the Neumann Studio Microphone. Then my pos 27” is more HD than the tv that shows me 1080 lines of blurred information.

Maybe I need to wait until the real 1920x1080 DLP chip will come out? The one that does not need wobulation? Is wobulation to blame? Or is it DNIe? Or did Samsung put a softening lens in front of the DLP chip, so now we have ‘cinema smooth’?

After all, if you don’t show me details. You are NOT High Definition, and I don’t care how many lines you have!

Capiche? :mad:

~

I have my SA8300 STB HDMI out connected to HDMI1 on my HLR5678. I have audio from 8300 to my Denon AVR.

If I tune to Music Choice channel and turn Off the HLR, about 1 minute later my 8300 drops the 1080i signal. Power is still on 8300, but no output. I then power on HLR (no output still from 8300), and see message stating:

"Your HDTV does not support HDCP. Please use the YPrPb component connection to watch television."

Anybody understand why the SA8300 signal drops with HLR off? Is it looking to maintain a handshake?

Also, anybody know of a way to get digital audio to HLR??

Thanks!

I have a setup similar to yours and I tried your instructions but I couldn't get it to occur. I have a 6178 and a SA 8300 HD-DVR from Time Warner with an HDMI cable going to the 6178 for video and an optical audio cable going to my receiver. I turned off my TV after tuning to a Music Choice channel and I've had it on for 15 mins with no issues.

I know HDMI uses HDCP to protect content from being intercepted and recorded. If the sending device (the 8300) detects a problem it probably cuts off the signal to protect the content from being intercepted before it gets to the 5678. However, the audio in this case isn't even being used from the HDMI cable. Maybe it's a bug in the 8300 software and since it sees the 5678 has been turned off it thinks something fishy is going on and stops the audio but does it also for the optical for some reason. Hell, I've had all kinds of funky problems with the SA8300. Whenever I watch HD Video-on-Demand content the system gets funky and the box completely crashes and reboots! Which means I can't use HD iControl. Thank goodness there isn't that much out there anyway. There are updates for the software done over the cable system every once in a while perhaps you could call the cable company in your area and see what they think but considering how technical the topic will be you may be at a loss. I've never found the tech people at the cable company to be very competent when it comes to new technology and real technical issues that extend beyond stuff like "Please check to make sure the cable actually plugs into the wall". I wouldn't think it's a problem with your 5678 especially since it's actually off the whole time.

Good luck.

I have now viewed the 5668 & 6168 for a few times. The first time was at BB Magnolia, there they have the 5668 and the 6168 side by side. The second time I looked at a 5668 at a different BB Magnolia. The third time was today, when I viewed the 6168 in the Samsung Showroom in the Time Warner Building in Manhattan.
~

Here's tip. View it from some other place than a store. Find a friend or someone who owns one to show it to you. You don't even need to see the 6168 in particular just any HDTV since you seem to be complaining about HD in general. I saw the 6168 at both Fry's and Tweeter. The TV didn't look the best just like you describe. My father-in-law's older rear projection HD TV looked better than the 6178 in the store.

The problem. Well, just like you heard from the Time Warner person, they split the signal up to a *bunch* of sets. Fry's and Tweeter have the same TV signal split to all of the sets in their store. My thought is that it causes it to ultimately look like crap in the store.

When I hooked up my set today with my HDMI cable, I tuned to 301 and American Chopper was on. You could see extremely minute details and I was amazed. I could see freckles on faces and you could literally count the individual hairs on someone mustache. That set you saw in the store happened to have a crappy signal. Perhaps the TV next to it was on the first split while the 6168 was on one of the last splits.

With regards to lag in games. What happens if you connect the xbox or PS2 via a VGA adaptor box? Shouldn't that remove all lag problems? Maybe that is how the xbox360 is going to get around it by just having a vga output.

I would also like to thank the poster who gave info on how to get the service menu up (using power off->Mute->1 8 2 ->power on). I was able to adjust the gamma which made a nice difference.

I have a question though. In the DNIe menu, at the far right near the bottom is an item "DNIe" which is default set to off. I happened to have Discovery HD on which was showing a flyby of green mountains. I set that to "ON" and the image looked much sharper and nicer. At first I thought this was a service menu way to turn on the DNIe demo but the whole screen looked nicer. However, when I power off the set then power it back on and enter the service menu, the gamma is still set at 0 but the DNIe setting is back to OFF. Is DNIe really turned off for some reason by default? Any ideas why this would default to off and how to get it to stay on between power cycles? Also, is there a way to clear the service menu without powering off the set?

Thanks a lot guys. This set is awesome.
We think the labeling is backwards. Notice the DNIe on picture and compare it and the off to the image below. You will notice that the off looks like your regular picture. So we think what is really happening is that you are turning it off in demo mode and the system is labeling it backwards. In any event WYSIWYG :)

When I hooked up my set today with my HDMI cable, I tuned to 301 and American Chopper was on. You could see extremely minute details and I was amazed. I could see freckles on faces and you could literally count the individual hairs on someone mustache.
I get similar results with an "SethS" ISF calibrated HLP5063 connected with DVI or HDMI and 720p input. Sharp hairy details all over the place. In the HDTV world it's source, source, source. ;)

Do you mind if I post a disappointment?

I...

~
A couple of things.
1. I noticed this silk or clay face on Jay Leno the other day. He looked like Gumby. His face was all one color. I assumed they gave him the big makeup treatment that day. On other shows you realize that even with a fair amount of makeup on most of those folks have the same facial issues we all do. ;)

As far as the fine details. I wonder if they were really feeding a 720 signal, although I doubt that would make much difference either. For example PBS, ABC and Fox all broadcast in 720 and it looks fine on my 5668. I would tend to think it could be the signal split. Not sure how that is done. If its the coax they are splitting then yes it would be an issue. Not sure if component has the same issues or not.

The fact that they stated cabling costs are a issue leads me to believe that they were feeding all the tv's with coax and not component. In fact its amazing how many posters even in this forum interchange component and composite, thinking they are the same. A piece of coax is dirt cheap. Hooking all the TV's up with component could cost $1000 of dollars and some of the runs could be 30-50 feet or more. Plus what device are they driving it with?

BTW did you go into the menu and actually check that each was being fed component on the input you were viewing?

Also, the first entry in the service menu is a position adjustment--I tweaked the vertical position a few pixels, and the "static" at the top of my SD broadcasts went away. Yay! This confirms my suspicion that it was just a part of the overscan area being shown incorrectly.

I'm going to try getting in touch with a calibrator and seeing if he can come out in the next couple of weeks--it would be nice to see what he can do before my 30 days are up :)

Rictus, thanks for the tip on adjusting the vertical position.

I think many of have taken too many trips to the imax...

9 feet for that size of TV is way too close, not to metion 6 feet!

you won't even be able see the entire screen from that distance... thats just plain stupid.
What do you mean you cant see the screen? I can see the screen at 6 feet back. all of it too. I love it.

A couple of things.
1. I noticed this silk or clay face on Jay Leno the other day. He looked like Gumby. His face was all one color. I assumed they gave him the big makeup treatment that day. On other shows you realize that even with a fair amount of makeup on most of those folks have the same facial issues we all do. ;)

As far as the fine details. I wonder if they were really feeding a 720 signal, although I doubt that would make much difference either. For example PBS, ABC and Fox all broadcast in 720 and it looks fine on my 5668. I would tend to think it could be the signal split. Not sure how that is done. If its the coax they are splitting then yes it would be an issue. Not sure if component has the same issues or not.

The fact that they stated cabling costs are a issue leads me to believe that they were feeding all the tv's with coax and not component. In fact its amazing how many posters even in this forum interchange component and composite, thinking they are the same. A piece of coax is dirt cheap. Hooking all the TV's up with component could cost $1000 of dollars and some of the runs could be 30-50 feet or more. Plus what device are they driving it with?

BTW did you go into the menu and actually check that each was being fed component on the input you were viewing?
The stores do not use good cables at all. They use the cheapest of cheap cables. No HDMI for sure and when you ask them to hook it up with HDMI, or component, they through a fit and dont. So I dont ask anymore. Bose stores hook their speakers up with all monster cable. But in fact monster cable does more justice with speaker cable. No matter what stores do with hooking the TV's up with the worst cable, they still amazing seel the TV's. Especially to people who really dont know much about TV's like we do in this forum.

Most of the TV's in the store look awful, until you get it home. But you cant buy all of them and test it at your house. Which sucks. It is really hard buying a TV higher than a CRT in the store, because you cant see the detail and quality until it is hooked up alone.

No matter what stores do with hooking the TV's up with the worst cable, they still amazing seel the TV's. Especially to people who really dont know much about TV's like we do in this forum.
I think the reason is that people who like their TV don't generally go to the stores to look or would not buy a set unless their was a huge difference. So you won't see many recent 720 dlp folks really interested in upgrading because what they have now is very good.

For those that are really disappointed and looking for a new set, even a lousy setup tv is enough to get them to buy. Otherwise how could they possibly sell lots of the sets I have seen in the stores. I also would not doubt that some individual tuning is done on the sets to make certain models (those that are being pushed that week) look better. When I was in retail we had to do all sorts of tricks to get the sales folks to sell certain products. If left to their own devices they would sell only what they liked and you would soon run out of that product, regardless of how good it was, how right it was for the customer, ...

Do you mind if I post a disappointment?

I have now viewed the 5668 & 6168 for a few times. The first time was at BB Magnolia, there they have the 5668 and the 6168 side by side. The second time I looked at a 5668 at a different BB Magnolia. The third time was today, when I viewed the 6168 in the Samsung Showroom in the Time Warner Building in Manhattan.

To keep my impression “fair”, I must mention that all 3 stores had their TV’s fed thru the Component inputs. When I asked if I could see how it looks with an HDMI or DVI feed, they told me that because they have to feed so many TVs, they can not do HDMI because that will be very expensive to implement – as per the number of TVs and the length of the cables required.

So for what it worth, this is what it looked like with a component feed.


Having a bad hair day, Samsung?

The problem is most clearly noticeable in the hair. Look at the hair of a person on screen, and I have noticed that many times, or on parts of the head, you could not see each hair, but a whole group of hair, maybe something the size of 1 inch wide of real life hair, will just combine together into a ‘flat’ “group”. You can not see each hair.

The problem is that this situation happens in many other areas. There is a “smoothing up” that is going on, that is taking the detailed picture and blurring it to make it look ‘smooth’.


Call it “The Air Brush Effect”

Looking at the faces on screen, there is a blending going on, it looks like the TV will take the pixels in the nearby area and “mix” them together. I think it was UCSB that noticed something and called it “silk skin” or “silk face” . Well, yeah, kind of. It looks more like the Post Production job the fashion magazine will do after the photographer took the picture. They will take the photograph and use air brush to hide any blemishes and make the skin look very smooth.

The problem is that looking at a TV nearby, the other TVs with a lower then 1080p definition will show more detail and you could see individual hair or a 8 hours after the morning shaving hair on the face.

When I showed that to the Magnolia guy, he was surprised. He said that this is the first time he notices that, and after looking with me for a few moments he said “You know, they all look younger on this TV…” LOL. Absolutely true!

Anyway, the two Magnolia places said that they have DirectTV satellite feed, and that Cable (Time Warner) will surely will look better, because of the compression and decompression that is going on with satellite.

Fine, so off to Samsung Experience showroom I go.

The Samsung 6168 at their showroom showed the same problem. I sat there for about an hour and a half to watch trying to figure out what am I seeing.

The guy there told me that the feed is thru Component. It is a computer feed. They have a computer server with a video file. The file is in a 1080p resolution and that is being fed to all the store. A 1080p file?? OK, whatever.

In any case, the picture showed the same hair problem. The same skin problem. But watching it for a longer time, I noticed more issues.

There was a jazz band playing. I looked at the microphone head. That portion of the mic occupied about 3 inches on the screen. You could say that the mic was life size. The microphone head is made of a netted metal wire, (wire mesh?). You could not see the net, or mesh. It was all a blur. Here is a link to what that microphone suppose to look like: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/164937.jpg. Remember, that head was 3 inches on the screen. How come I cant see it on a HDtv?

Next there was the saxophonist. He was wearing a sweeter that had vertical weaves design. In real life, each pattern was about 1/4 of an inch wide. Looking at that sweeter, there were parts of it that you could tell there were weaves going up and down, but there were parts of the sweeter – about 5 to 10 inches wide – that the whole weaving became a complete blur and it just looked like a flat foggy ‘cloud’. That problem became even larger when the guy moved about 5 or 10 inches forward or backward. For a few seconds the whole sweeter became blurry and foggy. This is not a fast moving object, he was just moving forward or backward when he was blowing a high note and needed to take more air or push his lung harder.

This whole thing of blurring does explain the good reviews this TV gets for showing a SDtv broadcast.

I am not an AVS pro, and I don’t know all the terms and combination of connections, feeds, etc. I do however know what I am seeing. I have been a professional advertising photographer for many years, and know how a technically good picture should technically look like. (contrast, intensity, color balance, dark details, light details, an overall balanced picture, etc. etc. etc.).

So I am disappointed. Because I was planning of buying the 6168 or 6768, and I was looking forward to upgrade from my Philips/Magnavox 27” POS. But this thing is a definite deal killer for me. So I would like to know if this has anything to do with the component input vs. HDMI or DVI input???

Bottom line is. HDTV stands for HIGH DEFINITION TV. Not a “we have thousands of lines and dots of information that we blur and project on a big piece of plastic”. I am not impressed by that. If my POS 27” TV shows me more hair than the 1080p can show me, or if my POS 27” TV can show me the lines on the sweeter, or the metal mesh on the head of the Neumann Studio Microphone. Then my pos 27” is more HD than the tv that shows me 1080 lines of blurred information.

Maybe I need to wait until the real 1920x1080 DLP chip will come out? The one that does not need wobulation? Is wobulation to blame? Or is it DNIe? Or did Samsung put a softening lens in front of the DLP chip, so now we have ‘cinema smooth’?

After all, if you don’t show me details. You are NOT High Definition, and I don’t care how many lines you have!

Capiche? :mad:

~

Careful. There are some here looking for neither objectivity nor truthful opinions it seems....

Careful. There are some here looking for neither objectivity nor truthful opinions it seems....
Don't be so hard on yourself. :cool:

Careful. There are some here looking for neither objectivity nor truthful opinions it seems....

I haven't tried component but I do not believe it would make much difference.

I can see every individual strand of hair from a good source like Discovery HD
over HDMI to my 6168.

The only RP in the same league today as the 1080p DLP is the Qualia 06 and
my Sammy 6168 has better blacks and much higher CR making it "better"
for film based DVDs.

Careful. There are some here looking for neither objectivity nor truthful opinions it seems....WOW you got balls coming into the owners thread with that statement...You really need to take this somewhere else. :rolleyes:

Careful. There are some here looking for neither objectivity nor truthful opinions it seems....

I'm all for objectivity and truthful opinions but only if they are based on facts, ie, owners. I am an owner, are you?



Didn't think so.

The file is in a 1080p resolution and that is being fed to all the store. A 1080p file?? OK, whatever.

For a small amount of 1080p content try here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

Course yur gonna need a puter hooked up to yur TV to see it in full glory.

I'm all for objectivity and truthful opinions but only if they are based on facts, ie, owners. I am an owner, are you?



Didn't think so.

Actually, i do own an HLN and have never had a moment's problem with it. I've been very lucky with it and have enjoyed it very much....

HDNYC

I'm not doubting what your reporting - your experience is yours but on the one hand you say you are a professional photographer and you have a keen eye but you own a Magnavox/Philips? Probably right up there with RCA as some of the worst CRT DV's. Is that supposed to represent quality?

I guess the 50+ reviews from other new owners or in-store participants are full of crap, blind, or suckers for Samsung? Could that be true? The overwhelming numbers from experienced members here contradict your findings. In-store even with a component being fed crap that I won't have fed in my home is a totally different environment. I'm not trying to be a smart ass I just guess you'd do better to observe a real demo with a true feed and I guess everyone at CES 2005 and Munich Show were blind also? Perhaps you gave us something else to look for and we'll all join Gazelle and wait for the JVC 1080P - Gazelle is probably just loving your post and he'll use it everywhere on this forum. Thanks for that one - watch what he does with your review to slam Samsung - it'll be on every thread.

To bad you can't see in an owners home - I would think after viewing a Magnavox anything would look terrific - how could you have a Mag that even comes close to this 1080P? I had a Mag and it was easily the worst PQ I'd ever seen and had to dump it on someone else and get a Sony as my Sony blew away that Mag. Oh well lot of ragging going on this thread lately and getting tiresome from non-owners. Where's UCSB Review? Did I miss something? I'm waiting for his response to post all reviews that I've found. :D

Don't be so hard on yourself. :cool:

LOL! Touche':)

Actually, i do own an HLN and have never had a moment's problem with it. I've been very lucky with it and have enjoyed it very much....

Thread subject:

Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLRxxx8W DLP Models

I'm going to go out a limb here and say that I think there's some amount of truth in what HDNYC is saying because I've seen what he described (and that others inclusing UCSB have also mentioned) as recently as yesterday and I have some similar concerns about the HLR5078 I'm getting ready to buy. However, I'm not convinced it is exclusive to the Samsung 1080p and that it may be more a symptom of a less-than-perfect component feed to a large number of TVs and an improperly set up picture due to typical in-store settings. I noticed a similar effect on Samsung 67 series TVs, Sony A10s and A20s and Mits RP-LCDs. To my eyes there was a loss of detail and a "smoothing" effect in certain areas of texture and color, especially in people's faces as the camera moved over them. In the case of the Samsungs, where the effect seemed to be a bit more pronounced, it may be caused by DNR or DNIe (which can't be disabled AFAIK). Or maybe its just the feed. Anyway, this whole thing may be non-existent in your own home with a good component or HDMI feed and with the benefit of calibration. At least thats what I'm hoping. If not, the TV will be returned and I'll need to look for something else.

You could be right regarding a non-HDMI source. But via 1080 HDMI with a clean
source, I can see every detail on someone's face, including craters and various
colorations, makeup smudges, etc - most of these actresses look a hell of a lot
better in 720p :-)

Ya know, I wish you guys would stop this petty bickering. It's really not adding any useful content to the subject matter.

I think most of us here can separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to making objective decisions about dubious input on both sides of the coin.

Maybe you ought to start a separate thread where you can go at it tooth and nail and those that enjoy it can mosey over there to watch the fireworks. Hell, I might even drop in from time to time, but I certainly know here is not the place.

HDNYC

I'm not doubting what your reporting - your experience is yours but on the one hand you say you are a professional photographer and you have a keen eye but you own a Magnavox/Philips? Probably right up there with RCA as some of the worst CRT DV's. Is that supposed to represent quality?

Why do you think he referred to it as POS?

I have seen this smoothing affect only on the faces when I compared a 720P Mits to a 1080p Samsung. Both with component feeds in Sound Advice store. The mits handled the blemishes better during this comparison. I am strongly trying to get one of my friends to buy the 1080p Samsung so I can see if this holds up at home. :D

I have a Direct TV HD 10 box. It has 3 setting. 480-720 and 1080 i. I keep it in 1080i all the time.Is that the right thing to do????

Ya know, I wish you guys would stop this petty bickering. It's really not adding any useful content to the subject matter.

I think most of us here can separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to making objective decisions about dubious input on both sides of the coin.

Maybe you ought to start a separate thread where you can go at it tooth and nail and those that enjoy it can mosey over there to watch the fireworks. Hell, I might even drop in from time to time, but I certainly know here is not the place.

Westa should definitely start that thread! He can then post his 1 million excellent reviews by industry experts with the visual acuity of a bird of prey. Him and gazelle can then run their post count up further bickering the pros and cons of Samsungs.

Just remember, if the SUBJECTIVE review (and even the excellent reviews are purely subjective) doesn't match up with how westa thinks it should be (and doesn't own) then the reviewer is either an idiot or the place that set it up is full of idiots using bad source.

Has anyone noticed lack of 1:1 mapping for 1080i using the internal tuner and using HDMI? I get 1:1 mapping on VGA but if I compare the same feed displayed using the internal tuner or through HDMI, there is a little bit more overscan with the tuner and HDMI, resulting in loss of 1:1 mapping.

Anyway, I was looking through the Service Menu and under the "GM1601" sub-menu, there is an entry for "1080i OVERSCAN". The default setting is "OFF" but when I set it to "ON", there was no difference in picture size. However, when I set it back to "OFF", the picture shrank a little bit (still has some ovescan). At this setting, the picture size for tuner and HDMI matches VGA and there is now a 1:1 mapping. Unfortunately, it seems the TV sometimes (not always) has trouble remembering this setting and it goes back to more overscan.

Anyone else notice this? Anyone want to try it out? (Don't blame me if you mess something up in the Service Menu!)

I have a Direct TV HD 10 box. It has 3 setting. 480-720 and 1080 i. I keep it in 1080i all the time.Is that the right thing to do????

Hi Ed,
I use a SA8300 HD PVR from Time Warner. When the installer from Tweeter brought over my new 5678, he turned on all settings, 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i. I read on another forum to turn off all except 1080i to avoid the STB from doing any scaling. The result was a much improved picture, especially on SD content, and a tremendous improvement when changing channels with regard to speed, so it worked for me to go from all to the 1080i only setting.

I have a setup similar to yours and I tried your instructions but I couldn't get it to occur. I have a 6178 and a SA 8300 HD-DVR from Time Warner with an HDMI cable going to the 6178 for video and an optical audio cable going to my receiver. I turned off my TV after tuning to a Music Choice channel and I've had it on for 15 mins with no issues.

I know HDMI uses HDCP to protect content from being intercepted and recorded. If the sending device (the 8300) detects a problem it probably cuts off the signal to protect the content from being intercepted before it gets to the 5678. However, the audio in this case isn't even being used from the HDMI cable. Maybe it's a bug in the 8300 software and since it sees the 5678 has been turned off it thinks something fishy is going on and stops the audio but does it also for the optical for some reason. Hell, I've had all kinds of funky problems with the SA8300. Whenever I watch HD Video-on-Demand content the system gets funky and the box completely crashes and reboots! Which means I can't use HD iControl. Thank goodness there isn't that much out there anyway. There are updates for the software done over the cable system every once in a while perhaps you could call the cable company in your area and see what they think but considering how technical the topic will be you may be at a loss. I've never found the tech people at the cable company to be very competent when it comes to new technology and real technical issues that extend beyond stuff like "Please check to make sure the cable actually plugs into the wall". I wouldn't think it's a problem with your 5678 especially since it's actually off the whole time.

Good luck.

Thanks for reply watzkej. It does appear to be fishy. I have been reading on SA8300 forum that the sound issue over HDMI is common. There are some regional differences in the way the boxes operate, settings available, etc. even within TWC customer base. Here is link to the forum that may be of assistance:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804

And yes, I am in no hurry to waste my time with Cust Service who no nothing about the operation of these STBs.

Thanks!

Thanks Watzkej, ccouper, tonydeluce for your response.

Watzkej,
could you see the phenomenon I was talking about in the hair on the head? I think there is a difference if the area of the hair is larger, like on a full head, not a small area like a mustache. Also, since head hair is more fine and closely combed together into groups. Do you see what I saw if you connect not thru HDMI?

Ccouper,
“The fact that they stated cabling costs are a issue leads me to believe that they were feeding all the tv's with coax and not component. In fact its amazing how many posters even in this forum interchange component and composite, thinking they are the same. A piece of coax is dirt cheap. Hooking all the TV's up with component could cost $1000 of dollars and some of the runs could be 30-50 feet or more. Plus what device are they driving it with?”

component and composite: He said it’s the second best thing next to HDMI (also, when I asked about DVI, he said DVI is no more…). So second best to HDMI I assume it was components?
They were driving it from a video file stored and run from they computer server. Is that what you were asking?
I didn’t go to the menu to check what was fed. The guy in the store had full custody over the remote control. I had a feeling I’d have to kill him to gain a short ownership over that. So I breathed slowly in and out and counted to 10.

A couple of things.
1. I noticed this silk or clay face on Jay Leno the other day. He looked like Gumby. His face was all one color. I assumed they gave him the big makeup treatment that day. On other shows you realize that even with a fair amount of makeup on most of those folks have the same facial issues we all do.

Did you ever notice that on the hair? They don’t put makeup on the hair… J

Tonydeluce,
I can see every individual strand of hair from a good source like Discovery HD
over HDMI to my 6168.
You are saying that you see that on a good source, like DiscoveryHD over HDMI. So I would like to know if you saw it blurred when watching other channels?

I really would like isolate the problem and see if it is a problem with the feed, or something with the way the TV is working. Is it components vs. HDMI, or is it a bad component feed, weak signal, vs. a good component feed, like the one you'd get at home, without splitting into many TV sets like in a store situation.

Thanks for the review. However, just to clarify #6...
The Samsung 1080p sets will NOT accept 1080p over HDMI. Nor is the Sony 975V DVD player even capable of outputting at 1080p over HDMI. In both cases it is 1080i or 720p or 480p.
You are right, I meant to say 1080i. My bad. But either way, 1080i is very good. The best so far. Thanks for checking my post carefully.

I'm going to go out a limb here and say that I think there's some amount of truth in what HDNYC is saying because I've seen what he described (and that others inclusing UCSB have also mentioned) as recently as yesterday and I have some similar concerns about the HLR5078 I'm getting ready to buy. However, I'm not convinced it is exclusive to the Samsung 1080p and that it may be more a symptom of a less-than-perfect component feed to a large number of TVs and an improperly set up picture due to typical in-store settings. I noticed a similar effect on Samsung 67 series TVs, Sony A10s and A20s and Mits RP-LCDs. To my eyes there was a loss of detail and a "smoothing" effect in certain areas of texture and color, especially in people's faces as the camera moved over them. In the case of the Samsungs, where the effect seemed to be a bit more pronounced, it may be caused by DNR or DNIe (which can't be disabled AFAIK). Or maybe its just the feed. Anyway, this whole thing may be non-existent in your own home with a good component or HDMI feed and with the benefit of calibration. At least thats what I'm hoping. If not, the TV will be returned and I'll need to look for something else.

AkaStp,
Right, that is exactly what I am describing, and I was wondering the same thing. Is it going to go away when connected the right way. Your approach toward this is the same as I would have. So could you please post your findings? Just like you, if I would see this at home, I would return the set. But since you are going to have the set as soon as tomorrow, I think I will take your word for it. So I am curiously awaiting your opinion!

~

Thanks Watzkej, ccouper, tonydeluce for your response.

Watzkej,
could you see the phenomenon I was talking about in the hair on the head? I think there is a difference if the area of the hair is larger, like on a full head, not a small area like a mustache. Also, since head hair is more fine and closely combed together into groups. Do you see what I saw if you connect not thru HDMI?

Ccouper,


component and composite: He said it’s the second best thing next to HDMI (also, when I asked about DVI, he said DVI is no more…). So second best to HDMI I assume it was components?
They were driving it from a video file stored and run from they computer server. Is that what you were asking?
I didn’t go to the menu to check what was fed. The guy in the store had full custody over the remote control. I had a feeling I’d have to kill him to gain a short ownership over that. So I breathed slowly in and out and counted to 10.



Did you ever notice that on the hair? They don’t put makeup on the hair… J

Tonydeluce,

You are saying that you see that on a good source, like DiscoveryHD over HDMI. So I would like to know if you saw it blurred when watching other channels?

I really would like isolate the problem and see if it is a problem with the feed, or something with the way the TV is working. Is it components vs. HDMI, or is it a bad component feed, weak signal, vs. a good component feed, like the one you'd get at home, without splitting into many TV sets like in a store situation.
I have no problem using HDMI or Component, but HDMI looks so much better. Wouldnt you agree? The store feeds are a joke. Alos the signal is split up how many times, 300? maybe

HDNYC

I'm not doubting what your reporting - your experience is yours but on the one hand you say you are a professional photographer and you have a keen eye but you own a Magnavox/Philips? Probably right up there with RCA as some of the worst CRT DV's. Is that supposed to represent quality?

I guess the 50+ reviews from other new owners or in-store participants are full of crap, blind, or suckers for Samsung? Could that be true? The overwhelming numbers from experienced members here contradict your findings. In-store even with a component being fed crap that I won't have fed in my home is a totally different environment. I'm not trying to be a smart ass I just guess you'd do better to observe a real demo with a true feed and I guess everyone at CES 2005 and Munich Show were blind also? Perhaps you gave us something else to look for and we'll all join Gazelle and wait for the JVC 1080P - Gazelle is probably just loving your post and he'll use it everywhere on this forum. Thanks for that one - watch what he does with your review to slam Samsung - it'll be on every thread.

To bad you can't see in an owners home - I would think after viewing a Magnavox anything would look terrific - how could you have a Mag that even comes close to this 1080P? I had a Mag and it was easily the worst PQ I'd ever seen and had to dump it on someone else and get a Sony as my Sony blew away that Mag. Oh well lot of ragging going on this thread lately and getting tiresome from non-owners. Where's UCSB Review? Did I miss something? I'm waiting for his response to post all reviews that I've found. :D

Your response is so confused and off the point, that I don’t even know how to answer you.

I think I will go off in the same off the point, but more to the source of things.

There is the blindness of the eye, and there is the blindness of the mind. In your case, an eye doctor could not help.

I could not care less for your own little private war with Mr. Gazelle. My concern is my own concern and I feel free to ask my questions and post my observations regardless if in your mind it helps him in your little imaginary war.

If my post upsets you so much then obviously you are so stuck in your [positive] opinions about this set, that there is no way you could provide any balanced opinion, and therefore can not help.


Originally Posted by htwaits
Don't be so hard on yourself.

LOL! Touche'
Gazelle, (since you mentioned him) on the other hand, is obviously a more mentally developed human being then you are, since he demonstrated the ability to laugh with other at himself. Therefore I would trust his ability to change opinions, or to be truthful with his observations even if they are contradicting his previous opinions. I do not however expect that from you in your current development stage.

Continue living in bliss.

~

HDNYC

I'm not doubting what your reporting - your experience is yours but on the one hand you say you are a professional photographer and you have a keen eye but you own a Magnavox/Philips? Probably right up there with RCA as some of the worst CRT DV's. Is that supposed to represent quality?

I guess the 50+ reviews from other new owners or in-store participants are full of crap, blind, or suckers for Samsung? Could that be true? The overwhelming numbers from experienced members here contradict your findings. In-store even with a component being fed crap that I won't have fed in my home is a totally different environment. I'm not trying to be a smart ass I just guess you'd do better to observe a real demo with a true feed and I guess everyone at CES 2005 and Munich Show were blind also? Perhaps you gave us something else to look for and we'll all join Gazelle and wait for the JVC 1080P - Gazelle is probably just loving your post and he'll use it everywhere on this forum. Thanks for that one - watch what he does with your review to slam Samsung - it'll be on every thread.

To bad you can't see in an owners home - I would think after viewing a Magnavox anything would look terrific - how could you have a Mag that even comes close to this 1080P? I had a Mag and it was easily the worst PQ I'd ever seen and had to dump it on someone else and get a Sony as my Sony blew away that Mag. Oh well lot of ragging going on this thread lately and getting tiresome from non-owners. Where's UCSB Review? Did I miss something? I'm waiting for his response to post all reviews that I've found. :D
Great post. You are exactly right about all of it. You said it well, so I wont even add anything. Gazelle, take it away, this is all yours. :eek:

Your response is so confused and off the point, that I don’t even know how to answer you.

I think I will go off in the same off the point, but more to the source of things.

There is the blindness of the eye, and there is the blindness of the mind. In your case, an eye doctor could not help.

I could not care less for your own little private war with Mr. Gazelle. My concern is my own concern and I feel free to ask my questions and post my observations regardless if in your mind it helps him in your little imaginary war.

If my post upsets you so much then obviously you are so stuck in your [positive] opinions about this set, that there is no way you could provide any balanced opinion, and therefore can not help.

OUCH!!! :D harsh words for a new guy with only 9 post. Take it away people. :eek:

Gazelle, (since you mentioned him) on the other hand, is obviously a more mentally developed human being then you are, since he demonstrated the ability to laugh with other at himself. Therefore I would trust his ability to change opinions, or to be truthful with his observations even if they are contradicting his previous opinions. I do not however expect that from you in your current development stage.

Continue living in bliss.
Ouch that hurts!!!

~

Ouch that hurts!!!

HDNYC, I personally value your opinion and all others...Hopefully with the right setup HDMI connection there will be a better detailed picture...I for one am taking delivery in less than 2 weeks with a 6768 and if it isn't everything that it is suppost to be, I will return it and I will look elsewhere. I for one am not married to Samsung products or any other manufactuer, I just want the best and trouble free set I can get with my hard earned dough...I have a Samsung HLN567 without any problems...but it is to small for my space...so hopefully Samsung will come through once again with a fine product in the 6768.

westa6969... You really need to mellow out...this poor guy just stated what he seen...no need to get crazy on him...I would be concern if I was him...but I haven't seen this issue yet! Anybody else see this.

AkaStp,
Right, that is exactly what I am describing, and I was wondering the same thing. Is it going to go away when connected the right way. Your approach toward this is the same as I would have. So could you please post your findings? Just like you, if I would see this at home, I would return the set. But since you are going to have the set as soon as tomorrow, I think I will take your word for it. So I am curiously awaiting your opinion!

~
I do agree with both of you, because the HDMI looks a whole lot better than the Component feed. It is like night and day. Especially when the camera moves. What is totally wrong with this picture? :eek:

I am about to purchase a HLR6168W and need some advice from owners about a stand. I found this stand :

http://www.bello.com/index.php?partition=show_product&prod_id=91&categ_id=40

I am just wondering if 21" is too high? I know the Samsung stand is only 17" high. Is it safe to go with the Bello?

HDNYC, I personally value your opinion and all others...Hopefully with the right setup HDMI connection there will be a better detailed picture...I for one am taking delivery in less than 2 weeks with a 6768 and if it isn't everything that it is suppost to be, I will return it and I will look elsewhere. I for one am not married to Samsung products or any other manufactuer, I just want the best and trouble free set I can get with my hard earned dough...I have a Samsung HLN567 without any problems...but it is to small for my space...so hopefully Samsung will come through once again with a fine product in the 6768.

westa6969... You really need to mellow out...this poor guy just stated what he seen...no need to get crazy on him...I would be concern if I was him...but I haven't seen this issue yet! Anybody else see this.
Hey joe, I agree with you completely. You said it right. I think when you take deliverly of your TV, you will not change, but this is me, Please post what you think about your TV. I would love to hear from you and others about what they find out. It seems to me, that everyone finds something different out about their set even though it is the same model. Strange.

HDNYC, I personally value your opinion and all others...Hopefully with the right setup HDMI connection there will be a better detailed picture...I for one am taking delivery in less than 2 weeks with a 6768 and if it isn't everything that it is suppost to be, I will return it and I will look elsewhere. I for one am not married to Samsung products or any other manufactuer, I just want the best and trouble free set I can get with my hard earned dough...I have a Samsung HLN567 without any problems...but it is to small for my space...so hopefully Samsung will come through once again with a fine product in the 6768.

westa6969... You really need to mellow out...this poor guy just stated what he seen...no need to get crazy on him...I would be concern if I was him...but I haven't seen this issue yet! Anybody else see this.

Joe,
I think that Westa6969 is seperating the men from the boys here. Since HDNYC is new to this forum. I had to take his stuff too. It is ok, Just catered to him and all will be good. ;) :D

Westa6969 is giving us military training on this forum. I feel like I was in Boot camp again. I am glad that I am not longer in the Coast Guard. My days are long gone.

I am about to purchase a HLR6168W and need some advice from owners about a stand. I found this stand :

http://www.bello.com/index.php?partition=show_product&prod_id=91&categ_id=40

I am just wondering if 21" is too high? I know the Samsung stand is only 17" high. Is it safe to go with the Bello?

You ideally want to have your line of sight in the middle of the screen. So this depends on your height when sitting from your normal place of viewing. There will be a good vertical viewing angle (10-20 degrees I believe) but that will be affected by how far you sit away from the display.

Joe,
I think that Westa6969 is seperating the men from the boys here. Since HDNYC is new to this forum. I had to take his stuff too. It is ok, Just catered to him and all will be good. ;) :D

Westa acts like an arse when any one posts an opinion he disagrees with. There's no reason for anyone to put up with it. As for seperating the men from the boys, he certainly is... acting like a child.

You could be right regarding a non-HDMI source. But via 1080 HDMI with a clean
source, I can see every detail on someone's face, including craters and various
colorations, makeup smudges, etc - most of these actresses look a hell of a lot
better in 720p :-)
I agree with that. I know exactly what you mean. I can see the details too, more than I want to on some people.

Westa acts like an arse when any one posts an opinion he disagrees with. There's no reason for anyone to put up with it. As for seperating the men from the boys, he certainly is... acting like a child.
Yeah I know, I was not defending him at all. I was telling him softly to cool it down, that we are not in boot camp.

Westa acts like an arse when any one posts an opinion he disagrees with. There's no reason for anyone to put up with it. As for seperating the men from the boys, he certainly is... acting like a child.
Thanks for letting me know about him. I am real new to this forum too and I am trying to learn everyone's personalities and ways, But no one should insult someone's else thoughts or views. This is a child like act.

You ideally want to have your line of sight in the middle of the screen. So this depends on your height when sitting from your normal place of viewing. There will be a good vertical viewing angle (10-20 degrees I believe) but that will be affected by how far you sit away from the display.
Personally I think that the 21" TV stand is too high, I have the one that is 17" and can be adjusted to 19" with the feet. 21" might be too high for the 61". I have the samsung TV stand with the 6178 and it is just perfect, right hieght for any sofa and even a dining room table.

When I read the review that said stuff like "Let me see the detail", etc. for the Sammy sets, I shrugged it off. Why?

Because on my set, when I watched football today on NBC, I could see beads of sweat on a player that was taking up a small portion of the screen. I could see individual blades of grass on the field. THAT is detail. It was like looking through a freshly windexed window onto the field.

The second I saw that kind of detail, I knew that anything that looked bad from that point on could not be because of the set. Once I saw its full capability and the crisp, bright, clean, clear detail, I knew that anything else had to be source related.

Oh, I forgot one thing. There definitely were a couple of times when I didn't see that clean, clear detail that I spoke of earlier, and that some readers here have evidently yet to see. That was when the camera was focusing on something else. I guess we should all throw our sets out because I couldn't see the color of the cheerleaders lipstick in the background when they were focusing on Eli Manning throw a 20 year TD pass to Burress.

These sets suck.

These sets suck.

Amen Brotha! :D

When I read the review that said stuff like "Let me see the detail", etc. for the Sammy sets, I shrugged it off. Why?

Because on my set, when I watched football today on NBC, I could see beads of sweat on a player that was taking up a small portion of the screen. I could see individual blades of grass on the field. THAT is detail. It was like looking through a freshly windexed window onto the field.

The second I saw that kind of detail, I knew that anything that looked bad from that point on could not be because of the set. Once I saw its full capability and the crisp, bright, clean, clear detail, I knew that anything else had to be source related.

Oh, I forgot one thing. There definitely were a couple of times when I didn't see that clean, clear detail that I spoke of earlier, and that some readers here have evidently yet to see. That was when the camera was focusing on something else. I guess we should all throw our sets out because I couldn't see the color of the cheerleaders lipstick in the background when they were focusing on Eli Manning throw a 20 year TD pass to Burress.

These sets suck.

Ths sets really suck :-) What I am also discovering is that HD content is
far behind these new 1080p DLPs. But with the right content such as you
describe above, these sets will knock your socks off ( I've lost at least dozen
pair by now :-) It is literally like looking out of a window.

I watched Ray this evening on a HD broadcast and even though it is film
there were scenes that were so clear and so detailed and 3D looking that it
was if my screen disappeared and I was looking through a window. Absolutely
frig'in amazing...

I am just wondering if 21" is too high? I know the Samsung stand is only 17" high. Is it safe to go with the Bello?

21" is fine. We have ours on a 24" stand, and at any reasonable viewing distance (i.e. more than a few feet) there's no problem with brightness.

BTW, we're really happy with our stand:

http://www.roomandboard.com/rnb/prod.do?pfid=608166&grp=RB3606-1&grpType=0&collid=RB3606&collname=Zen&dept=RB109

It looks great in our room, which has dark wood panelling. The 6168 just barely overhangs the stand (the wider 70" was too wide for our space).

Whine: Why does nobody seem to have male-to-male VGA cables? The only ones they seem to have at Best Buy and Radio Shack are "extension cables", which are male-to-female, and won't work with the Samsung (which has a female port). I'm itching to hook up my PC...

EDIT: Apparently I have to search on "monitor cable", not "VGA cable".

Whine: Why are HDMI cables so overpriced? Bonus whine: Why does the Motorola 6412 have a DVI output, forcing me to shell out yet more bucks for a DVI/HDMI adapter?

Do you mind if I post a disappointment?

snip..............

So I am disappointed. Because I was planning of buying the 6168 or 6768, and I was looking forward to upgrade from my Philips/Magnavox 27” POS. But this thing is a definite deal killer for me. So I would like to know if this has anything to do with the component input vs. HDMI or DVI input???

snip................

~


HDNYC

It probably has more to do with the video distribution system. DirectTV is known for overcompressing their HD and if they're using the type of encoder that Voom switched to, much movement turns things even softer until the movement stops. The hard drive device referred to, if its the one that's common in the industry, usually looks pretty good, but I guess this would also depend on the signal distribution.

What you will come across is that many of these HD sets are being held back by the quality of the signals. You can be channel surfing and find PBS looks great, while the football game looks terrible.

I too am a photographer and know poor picture quality when I see it (when others are singing praises). Unfortunately, I've not had an opportunity to see these sets. Local stores have just not gotten them in yet. :mad:

I recently purchased a 1080i Sony HD video camera, and I've been shopping for a Hi-Def screen to watch my recordings on. I've been seriously considering a Sammy 1080p, so I've been reading this forum…almost all 93 pages. I've learned so much more here than I could from any inept, uninformed salesperson, who don't even know the HDMI/component inputs do not take 1080p. How sad is that...

Anyway, I wanted to comment on HDNYC's smoothing observations. I have watched video from my 1080i camera (through component input) on 720p sets and the Sammy 1080p. The detail shown on the 1080p is so life-like. I can see hair strands, slight perspiration and even the threads of a cotton t-shirt. There is no doubt that detail from my camera shows better on 1080p than 720p. The 720p screens look wonderful, but details are crisper and more vivid on the 1080p. I don't care about one brand or another -- I just want a display that will show the most detail from my camera, and so far the Samsung 1080p has been the best DLP. (My local Tweeter store doesn't yet have the Mits or Toshiba 1080p DLP, so I can't say that Sammy is better than them.) Meanwhile, the Hi-Def feed in the store was terrible and made the Sammy 1080p look bad (compared to video from my camera).

Summary: The smoothing you are seeing is probably due to a poor feed because the component output from my 1080i camera is amazingly detailed. You would never think the video was from an HC1 (Sony's compact $2000 consumer HDV cam).

Hooked up my tv yesterday and let me tell you that the picture can be absolutely stunning. I do believe the sets are ahead of the transmission technology and are capable of displaying any flaw that is transmitted.

I was watching some golf. The detail was incredible, however, it seemed as though some cameras or camera shots were not in HD as the quality was drastically lower. Then another camera shot would appear and whamo, back to stunning. Anybody else experience this?

There were some very detailed outdoor scenes on other HD channels that seemed 3d...just astonishing. I did notice, however, on some scenes that there was a kind of "shimmering" in the detail of the scene in the foreground. Tried playing with sharpness setting, but it made no difference. Could this also be a less than adequate feed?

I haven't had a chance to check a DVD, but I will report back as soon as I do. My DVD player is old, but I'm still hoping for the best.

Oh. I have been using the standard mode. I have directv and the HR10-250 set to output 1080i. It is hooked up with the supplied hdmi cable and optical to my avr. The DVD player is a panasonic vhs/dvd connected via component & optical to the avr ( thinking about getting an oppo, pending USBC's review).

I am going back to play with the set some more. This is great. I'll report more later after trying some different settings.

Whine: Why does nobody seem to have male-to-male VGA cables? The only ones they seem to have at Best Buy and Radio Shack are "extension cables", which are male-to-female, and won't work with the Samsung (which has a female port). I'm itching to hook up my PC...

EDIT: Apparently I have to search on "monitor cable", not "VGA cable".

Whine: Why are HDMI cables so overpriced? Bonus whine: Why does the Motorola 6412 have a DVI output, forcing me to shell out yet more bucks for a DVI/HDMI adapter?

If you don't mind mailorder, monoprice has a fair selection and almost "too good to be true" prices. On the other hand, if it doesn't work, you're out very little.

SVGA:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&style=

HDMI/DVI adapters:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&style=

Hooked up my tv yesterday and let me tell you that the picture can be absolutely stunning. I do believe the sets are ahead of the transmission technology and are capable of displaying any flaw that is transmitted.

I was watching some golf. The detail was incredible, however, it seemed as though some cameras or camera shots were not in HD as the quality was drastically lower. Then another camera shot would appear and whamo, back to stunning. Anybody else experience this?

There were some very detailed outdoor scenes on other HD channels that seemed 3d...just astonishing. I did notice, however, on some scenes that there was a kind of "shimmering" in the detail of the scene in the foreground. Tried playing with sharpness setting, but it made no difference. Could this also be a less than adequate feed?

I haven't had a chance to check a DVD, but I will report back as soon as I do. My DVD player is old, but I'm still hoping for the best.

Oh. I have been using the standard mode. I have directv and the HR10-250 set to output 1080i. It is hooked up with the supplied hdmi cable and optical to my avr. The DVD player is a panasonic vhs/dvd connected via component & optical to the avr ( thinking about getting an oppo, pending USBC's review).

I am going back to play with the set some more. This is great. I'll report more later after trying some different settings.
:) I agree with that, right what you said in your post. "There were some very detailed outdoor scenes on other HD channels that seemed 3d...just astonishing. I did notice, however, on some scenes that there was a kind of "shimmering" in the detail of the scene in the foreground. Tried playing with sharpness setting, but it made no difference. "
This is exactly how I feel too, Strange how these sets actually work. I cant kep adjusting the sharpness for what.

Hooked up my tv yesterday and let me tell you that the picture can be absolutely stunning. I do believe the sets are ahead of the transmission technology and are capable of displaying any flaw that is transmitted.

I was watching some golf. The detail was incredible, however, it seemed as though some cameras or camera shots were not in HD as the quality was drastically lower. Then another camera shot would appear and whamo, back to stunning. Anybody else experience this?

There were some very detailed outdoor scenes on other HD channels that seemed 3d...just astonishing. I did notice, however, on some scenes that there was a kind of "shimmering" in the detail of the scene in the foreground. Tried playing with sharpness setting, but it made no difference. Could this also be a less than adequate feed?

I haven't had a chance to check a DVD, but I will report back as soon as I do. My DVD player is old, but I'm still hoping for the best.

Oh. I have been using the standard mode. I have directv and the HR10-250 set to output 1080i. It is hooked up with the supplied hdmi cable and optical to my avr. The DVD player is a panasonic vhs/dvd connected via component & optical to the avr ( thinking about getting an oppo, pending USBC's review).

I am going back to play with the set some more. This is great. I'll report more later after trying some different settings.
Regarding your DVD Player, since you have a great 1080p TV, you should get yourself a real nice DVD player with and HDMI ouput. :D Dont forget the cable. Now that is amazing, I just watch "Guiess Who" on DVD and it was the very best, better than the movies, I felt like I was there. Man, Amazing picture, Sharpness, clearity, and Sound. :) ;)

I was watching some golf. The detail was incredible, however, it seemed as though some cameras or camera shots were not in HD as the quality was drastically lower. Then another camera shot would appear and whamo, back to stunning. Anybody else experience this?

You're 100% correct. Apparently the cameras in the towers were HD cameras, all the other cameras were SD. Stupid on their part. You could see a similar effect on the NASCAR race, where the cameras covering the track were HD but the cameras doing interviews and work in pit row were SD (probably necessary since they have to be mobile)

Hey joe, I agree with you completely. You said it right. I think when you take deliverly of your TV, you will not change, but this is me, Please post what you think about your TV. I would love to hear from you and others about what they find out. It seems to me, that everyone finds something different out about their set even though it is the same model. Strange.

This is not strange at all. It is simply proof that, as with any high performance device, proper configuration is necessary for proper high performance.

In the case of these HDTV's, it just goes to show how different source video feeds and different video settings can yield drastically different results. Exactly as would be expected.

I have a 600-HP high performance big block engine in a jet boat. If you don't have the carburetor tuned just right (I.E. video settings) and use the proper high octane fuel (I.E. video feed) it runs like a POS. If you have all the jets tuned correctly in the carburetor and give it 104+ octane fuel it runs like a champ! ;)

HDNYC

I'm not doubting what your reporting - your experience is yours but on the one hand you say you are a professional photographer and you have a keen eye but you own a Magnavox/Philips? Probably right up there with RCA as some of the worst CRT DV's. Is that supposed to represent quality?

I guess the 50+ reviews from other new owners or in-store participants are full of crap, blind, or suckers for Samsung? Could that be true? The overwhelming numbers from experienced members here contradict your findings. In-store even with a component being fed crap that I won't have fed in my home is a totally different environment. I'm not trying to be a smart ass I just guess you'd do better to observe a real demo with a true feed and I guess everyone at CES 2005 and Munich Show were blind also? Perhaps you gave us something else to look for and we'll all join Gazelle and wait for the JVC 1080P - Gazelle is probably just loving your post and he'll use it everywhere on this forum. Thanks for that one - watch what he does with your review to slam Samsung - it'll be on every thread.

To bad you can't see in an owners home - I would think after viewing a Magnavox anything would look terrific - how could you have a Mag that even comes close to this 1080P? I had a Mag and it was easily the worst PQ I'd ever seen and had to dump it on someone else and get a Sony as my Sony blew away that Mag. Oh well lot of ragging going on this thread lately and getting tiresome from non-owners. Where's UCSB Review? Did I miss something? I'm waiting for his response to post all reviews that I've found. :D


Westa....go back to your hole. I for one am interested in all reviews and am very tired of your 'need' to put anyone down who has anything to say other than "I luv my Sammy"...

Hooked up my tv yesterday and let me tell you that the picture can be absolutely stunning. I do believe the sets are ahead of the transmission technology and are capable of displaying any flaw that is transmitted.

I was watching some golf. The detail was incredible, however, it seemed as though some cameras or camera shots were not in HD as the quality was drastically lower. Then another camera shot would appear and whamo, back to stunning. Anybody else experience this?
.

Not all of CBS's cameras are HD-capable at these sporting events. There is a noticable change when they flip from one to the other. Golf, for some reason, is pariticularly bad perhaps because of the number of cameras needed to capture all angles on 18 holes....

If you don't mind mailorder, monoprice has a fair selection and almost "too good to be true" prices. On the other hand, if it doesn't work, you're out very little.

SVGA:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&style=

HDMI/DVI adapters:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&style=WOW...Great prices...Thanks for the web site. :)

Not all of CBS's cameras are HD-capable at these sporting events. There is a noticable change when they flip from one to the other. Golf, for some reason, is pariticularly bad perhaps because of the number of cameras needed to capture all angles on 18 holes....

Yes, it is very obvious when they switch to an SD camera.

I am new to the forum, amazing all the information at hand. Not that easy to navigate though when threads run 100 + pages.

I have read hear before but not posted. I was in Tweeter yesterday looking at the new Samsung 1080p sets. The 61 looked great, of course it was set for the store.

I am looking at the new Samsung 61" 1080p against the yet to come out 62" Mitsu. Other than references to Samsungs 7 color wheel to Mitsu's 6 color wheel, any drastic differences?

I am putting the unit in a living room and am only planning to hook up my xbox and dvd player. Is the cable card acceptable or do I need a HD box from Comcast?

Sorry for all the questions, thanks in advance guys.

This is not strange at all. It is simply proof that, as with any high performance device, proper configuration is necessary for proper high performance.

In the case of these HDTV's, it just goes to show how different source video feeds and different video settings can yield drastically different results. Exactly as would be expected.

I have a 600-HP high performance big block engine in a jet boat. If you don't have the carburetor tuned just right (I.E. video settings) and use the proper high octane fuel (I.E. video feed) it runs like a POS. If you have all the jets tuned correctly in the carburetor and give it 104+ octane fuel it runs like a champ! ;)
YOU are correct. I agree with you 100%. Thanks for your feedback. :)

I am new to the forum, amazing all the information at hand. Not that easy to navigate though when threads run 100 + pages.

I have read hear before but not posted. I was in Tweeter yesterday looking at the new Samsung 1080p sets. The 61 looked great, of course it was set for the store.

I am looking at the new Samsung 61" 1080p against the yet to come out 62" Mitsu. Other than references to Samsungs 7 color wheel to Mitsu's 6 color wheel, any drastic differences?

I am putting the unit in a living room and am only planning to hook up my xbox and dvd player. Is the cable card acceptable or do I need a HD box from Comcast?

Sorry for all the questions, thanks in advance guys.I hope you mean White Sox :D

FYI to all: I have played with my TV more and found it to work even better, when I play with the menu. I hate the simple fact then when you want to change, from Movie, Standard, Custom or Dynamic, you always have to go to the menu then picture and select what you want. My other TV had only one button to change between all these settings. Also you cant zoom, etc while using an 1080i format. This is fine. I got the picture looking real good now with DNIE on. This is much better. Hope this helps all you 68 and 78 owners.

ADDED: Some of the faces on HD material looked like they had been smoothed. For lack of any terminology for this look, I will call then silk faces. I attributed this to possible signal compression on the DirectTV broadcast. If anyone has a very high quality HD feed, from quality HD equipment, via HDMI please let me know if this was just a problem unique to Magnolia's setup or DirectTV. It is the only defect that I observed on any of the material that I viewed.


UCSB,
Took me some time to find your post, but here goes:

This is not due to DirectTV. Since the two Magnolia I saw said it might be the DirectTV, I went to "Samsung Experience" - it is the Samsung showroom in Manhattan.

The Samsung Experience has a Computer Server that feeds their TVs with a video file stored on that server. The input is thru components. I don't know what resolution they fed. I would not take the showroom's rep word to the bank. So we can only guess.

However, if you have read my post, the problem is not only on the face, but more pronounced in the hair. The smoothing of hair groups makes them look like a surface, not individual strands. It is not the whole hair, just groups here and there! Maybe 1" - 2" in size.

So this is not a DirectTV issue. By the way, other sets at Magnolia did not have that 'grouping and smoothing' of the hair. Including previous Samsung DLP models.

I would be interested in your observations since you have seen it, and now you hopefully own one already?

Thanks!

Having a bad hair day, Samsung?

The problem is most clearly noticeable in the hair. Look at the hair of a person on screen, and I have noticed that many times, or on parts of the head, you could not see each hair, but a whole group of hair, maybe something the size of 1 inch wide of real life hair, will just combine together into a ‘flat’ “group”. You can not see each hair.

The problem is that this situation happens in many other areas. There is a “smoothing up” that is going on, that is taking the detailed picture and blurring it to make it look ‘smooth’.~

Excellent observations... I believe I have noticed similar smoothing or blurring effects on my 6168 in the last week and a half. (With HDMI connection from SA 8300HD STB set to output 1080i only) However, as I read this on this rainy Sunday morning in KC, I'm sitting on the couch with my laptop watching Spiderman II on the HD HBO channel and the smoothing is not at all evident. On the closeups I see just about every single hair and certainly more skin pores than I care to see! It is truly un-frigging-believeably awesome! So my take on this is that it is most likely source related. Although I can't comment on the effects of component connections as opposed to HDMI since I haven't compared the two.

My god... I am right at this moment looking at a closeup of Kirsten Dunst just before the car comes crashing through the window (can you say... hold onto your seats!?) and I see every wisp of her hair, like I'm standing right next to her IN THE FLESH... can you see my jaw dropping to my chest? :eek:

Is anyone else having a hard time calibrating this tv. Here is what I am seeing.

First I select "Movie" then I go through the screens in DVE. Once I have everything setup to my tastes, I figure I am done. However, If I toggle to a different input and back to the original input, the brightness appears to be much darker than what I calibrated. Switching from Movie to Custom and back seems to put it back to the original brightness level (with my changes) but if the input changes it goes back to the darker picture?

Anyone else seen this weird behavior. I am having a heck of a time figuring out how to get it set correctly with this going on.

I know each input has it's own settings. All the settings for each, dynamic, standard, movie, and custom are remebered for each input. If you change a setting like brightness it will only affect that one choice on that one input.

I am new to the forum, amazing all the information at hand. Not that easy to navigate though when threads run 100 + pages.

I am looking at the new Samsung 61" 1080p against the yet to come out 62" Mitsu. Other than references to Samsungs 7 color wheel to Mitsu's 6 color wheel, any drastic differences?


Agreed! I'm also new and looking at the same thing. This stuff may not be important, but here's a few observations. Samsung has a D-Sub 15-pin PC input capable of 1080p, and supposedly only the most expensive Mitsubishi Diamond WD-62927 ($6000 msrp) and 73927 offer that feature. I downloaded the specs for the WD-62628 (similar price to HLR6178), and it has an HDMI/DVI capable of 1280x720, but not 1080p. The Mits has 3 component inputs and 9-format memory card reader and direct input selection on the remote.

I posted this in the xx67 thread, figure I would post it here too:

Went to Best Buy today and tried the 5067w with a PS2 game: Madden 2005. I thought the picture looked somewhat alright but could look better. Mind you that I was sitting about 4 feet from the tv. As for the question of lag, it was definitely there when I was doing kick off and punts due to the kick meter. However, I noticed that you can get your mind adjusted to it. When I came home on my CRT, there was zero lag. A big difference I would say. Although that was the only part of the game I felt you could really notice lag. When playing as the QB or RB, I felt the lag was minor to how you played.

Overall, I can't really decide if this is a reason or not to get a DLP tv. From what I've read and heard from others, is that Xbox games or games that are outputting a progressive scan signal do not show this. So perhaps you can get use to it or basically just wait for the PS3 and Xbox 360 to completely forget about console lag.

Has anyone here tried any PC games to see how perform?

Ok, I noticed one more thing. When I have it callibrated after first selecting movie, I can see black than black. If I switch to custom and back to movie one time, I can no longer see blacker than black regardless of how high I push the brightness.

Agreed! I'm also new and looking at the same thing. This stuff may not be important, but here's a few observations. Samsung has a D-Sub 15-pin PC input capable of 1080p, and supposedly only the most expensive Mitsubishi Diamond WD-62927 ($6000 msrp) and 73927 offer that feature. I downloaded the specs for the WD-62628 (similar price to HLR6178), and it has an HDMI/DVI capable of 1280x720, but not 1080p. The Mits has 3 component inputs and 9-format memory card reader and direct input selection on the remote.

The significant differences I have noted are the same as yours--the color wheel difference (which Mits has stated gives better results, but we'll see), and the 1080p VGA input on the Sammy that Mits only has on the xx927 sets--plus one extra difference: the large (73") Mits sets have a 150 watt lamp, while the large (67" and 71") Sammies have 120 watt lamps; again we'll have to see if that makes any difference in the final PQ.

Well, my setup is finally complete and cleaned up so I can finally join the owners thread :) So far I love my new 6168 but think it may push me over the top to get a new AVR. Thinking Denon 4806.

Anyway, here is a pict - http://www.pbase.com/jakepratt/image/47562634

Hey Jake,

I have the 4806 & 6178. It's a combo that rocks!!

Give it a shot. The Audessy calibration software in the Denon is amazing.

Rick

UCSB,
Took me some time to find your post, but here goes:

This is not due to DirectTV. Since the two Magnolia I saw said it might be the DirectTV, I went to "Samsung Experience" - it is the Samsung showroom in Manhattan.

The Samsung Experience has a Computer Server that feeds their TVs with a video file stored on that server. The input is thru components. I don't know what resolution they fed. I would not take the showroom's rep word to the bank. So we can only guess.

However, if you have read my post, the problem is not only on the face, but more pronounced in the hair. The smoothing of hair groups makes them look like a surface, not individual strands. It is not the whole hair, just groups here and there! Maybe 1" - 2" in size.

So this is not a DirectTV issue. By the way, other sets at Magnolia did not have that 'grouping and smoothing' of the hair. Including previous Samsung DLP models.

I would be interested in your observations since you have seen it, and now you hopefully own one already?

Thanks!

Since posting that early review, my TV has arrived and I think that I better understand that issue. The silk faces and smoothing that I talked about in my earlier post are a common occurance. I think the cause is video compression during the mastering process. I have been testing DVD players and with a quality player and quality material you do not see the effect.

Is anyone else having a hard time calibrating this tv. Here is what I am seeing.

First I select "Movie" then I go through the screens in DVE. Once I have everything setup to my tastes, I figure I am done. However, If I toggle to a different input and back to the original input, the brightness appears to be much darker than what I calibrated. Switching from Movie to Custom and back seems to put it back to the original brightness level (with my changes) but if the input changes it goes back to the darker picture?

Anyone else seen this weird behavior. I am having a heck of a time figuring out how to get it set correctly with this going on.

Which input are you using?

It is amazing to me how many people are commenting about sets that they see in stores. I saw the new Sammy at Best Buy yesterday and the picture looked about the same as the rest of the sets...so what?

The following needs to be understood:
1. Quality of source feed
2. Video calibration
3. Ambient lighting

Since these variables so dramatically affect PQ, it is a given that showroom viewing is not going to tell you much about the sets true performance. I have noticed several actual owners here stating that they are getting superior performance with their 1080p sets, and a few that are experiencing problems, as I sift through the rants of non-owners.

What I am looking for are reviews from owners that have ISF trained techs calibrate their sets. I know when my HLN was calibrated by David Abrams here in SoCal the diference was like night and day.

***patiently awaiting useful information***

I think there may be an issue here regarding DNIe. On both my brother's and my 6178's, when we put the demo on, the picture on the left (DNIe on) looks noticeably better; brighter, more detailed, better color. The one on the right (DNIe off) looks exactly like the picture you get with the demo off. :confused:

Someone said he felt they labeled it backwards, but to us, it looks more like the DNIe is defaulted to off, and apparently, can't be permanently switched to on.

Go to Sammy's Site (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLR6168WX%2fXAA) and look at the DNIe picture, then watch the Demo, and you'll see what I'm referring to.

Are you guys seeing the same thing we are? If so, this is clearly a bug.

Setup: 6168, Toshiba RD-XS52 DVD recorder connected via HDMI. Picture on the 6168 is set to Standard mode, Warm1.

I was trying to use the reverse gray ramps test pattern in DVE to set brightness and contrast, as suggested by this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2852646&&#post2852646

I can set the brightness to just barely show the difference between the second and third black bars (my player doesn't seem to pass BTB, so I can never make the first two black bars look different). However, even if I turn the contrast down to 0, I can see all the shades on the white side of the ramps, so this doesn't seem like a useful test. (More precisely, I can see little gray areas in between each of the whites, which I assume is an optical illusion caused by having two slightly different shades next to each other.) Am I misunderstanding something?

Setup: 6168, Toshiba RD-XS52 DVD recorder connected via HDMI. Picture on the 6168 is set to Standard mode, Warm1.

I was trying to use the reverse gray ramps test pattern in DVE to set brightness and contrast, as suggested by this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2852646&&#post2852646

I can set the brightness to just barely show the difference between the second and third black bars (my player doesn't seem to pass BTB, so I can never make the first two black bars look different). However, even if I turn the contrast down to 0, I can see all the shades on the white side of the ramps, so this doesn't seem like a useful test. (More precisely, I can see little gray areas in between each of the whites, which I assume is an optical illusion caused by having two slightly different shades next to each other.) Am I misunderstanding something?

This is the same as on the hlp sets, i.e., the different white bars never bleed into each other even with Contrast all the way up to 100%. Most people thus just tend to set the Contrast at some high figure; I use 90% since I never like to set anything at its extreme, but I really don't notice any difference if I set it at 100%. (The black bars are, of course, quite a different story; in Cinema mode, and my 2910 outputing 720p YCrCb via HDMI, my Brightness comes in ~45.)

Hi Ed,
I use a SA8300 HD PVR from Time Warner. When the installer from Tweeter brought over my new 5678, he turned on all settings, 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i. I read on another forum to turn off all except 1080i to avoid the STB from doing any scaling. The result was a much improved picture, especially on SD content, and a tremendous improvement when changing channels with regard to speed, so it worked for me to go from all to the 1080i only setting.

GeoMetro... I agree 100%. I also have the SA 8300HD and after lots of playing around, I found the best setting on the 8300 is to output 1080i only. I don't notice a significant difference in picture quality either way, but the channels change nearly instantaneously, and I really like that.

I think there may be an issue here regarding DNIe. On both my brother's and my 6178's, when we put the demo on, the picture on the left (DNIe on) looks noticeably better; brighter, more detailed, better color. The one on the right (DNIe off) looks exactly like the picture you get with the demo off. :confused:

Someone said he felt they labeled it backwards, but to us, it looks more like the DNIe is defaulted to off, and apparently, can't be permanently switched to on.

Go to Sammy's Site (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLR6168WX%2fXAA) and look at the DNIe picture, then watch the Demo, and you'll see what I'm referring to.

Are you guys seeing the same thing we are? If so, this is clearly a bug.

I sent an email to Samsung Support re: this.

I'm looking for feedback from other owners as to their observations.

There is the blindness of the eye, and there is the blindness of the mind. In your case, an eye doctor could not help.

~

Totally agree. Thanks for your excellent evaluation/observations. westa6969 is one of those people who think expressing an opinion is an attack on others' opinions. Thanks to people like you and the other sincere, thoughtful posters in this forum (such as UCSB), I am more aware than ever of the hazards of relying solely on observations of these sets in retail settings.

Hey, do you folks give out any awards for greatest number of posts in the shortest time span? 'Cause I'm thinkin' we've got a new world record occurring right before our eyes... ;)

Your response is so confused and off the point, that I don’t even know how to answer you.

There is the blindness of the eye, and there is the blindness of the mind. In your case, an eye doctor could not help.

Wonderful reply. This westa6969 character who is clearly a very disturbed, immature individual and is now stalking me with private messages. Anyone else getting bugged by this disturbed person? Or Maybe he's just in love with me.

This is the same as on the hlp sets, i.e., the different white bars never bleed into each other even with Contrast all the way up to 100%. Most people thus just tend to set the Contrast at some high figure; I use 90% since I never like to set anything at its extreme, but I really don't notice any difference if I set it at 100%. (The black bars are, of course, quite a different story; in Cinema mode, and my 2910 outputing 720p YCrCb via HDMI, my Brightness comes in ~45.)

Duh, I just realized that I was doing the wrong thing--turning the contrast all the way down instead of starting at the top and inching down. No wonder I was confused.

Would you clowns take your petty "he said this, and I said that" BS to some other thread?

This is an owners thread where most of us are trying to offer constructive information.

If your post is not constructive, then it's irrelevant.

Ok. Now i see what's going on. Just noticed this disturbed individual may not really be that disturbed. Probably just works for Samsung and is very loyal to his employer. He started an entire thread of strictly gung-ho type ads for his bosses! Not too bright a fellow, but then i suppose if you live long enough, you see everything. Quite humorous, really. At least his motives have been unmasked. Now his posts can totally be ignored and discarded.

Ok. Now i see what's going on. Just noticed this disturbed individual may not really be that disturbed. Probably just works for Samsung and is very loyal to his employer. He started an entire thread of strictly gung-ho type ads for his bosses! Not too bright a fellow, but then i suppose if you live long enough, you see everything. Quite humorous, really. At least his motives have been unmasked. Now his posts can totally be ignored and discarded.

That's enough of this. If you want, I can start a poll and we can see whether or not people think it is more likely Gazelle is employed by JVC or Toshiba or more likely westa is employed by Samsung.

Actually, come to think of it, there is no need. We know what the results would be.

That's enough of this. If you want, I can start a poll and we can see whether or not people think it is more likely Gazelle is employed by JVC or Toshiba or more likely westa is employed by Samsung.

Actually, come to think of it, there is no need. We know what the results would be.

Huh?

Hey, do you folks give out any awards for greatest number of posts in the shortest time span? 'Cause I'm thinkin' we've got a new world record occurring right before our eyes... ;)

Quite a record indeed. StallionRe alone has contributed between 5% and 7% of the total posts in this thread alone. 276 posts in only 9 days. That is impressive.

I sent an email to Samsung Support re: this.

I'm looking for feedback from other owners as to their observations.

I think it is just a DEMO mode for in store sales. Since DNIe is fully integrated into the sets, they can't turn it off, but they can exaggerate the Demo side.

Correction: CAN'T turn it off

Huh?

What do you mean Huh?

Huh?

If you're going to accuse westa of being employed by Samsung, let's not forget about some of the others out there that infiltrate the owner's thread that are as you say "employed" by manufacturers.

If you want someone whose posts can be ignored and discarded, start with PikminZeez or Gazelle.

Sheesh. Huh?

What do you mean Huh?

Huh?

If you're going to accuse westa of being employed by Samsung, let's not forget about some of the others out there that infiltrate the owner's thread that are as you say "employed" by manufacturers.

If you want someone whose posts can be ignored and discarded, start with PikminZeez or Gazelle.

Sheesh. Huh?

Maybe yours. Why not join your good friend westa6969 who has posted a slew of glowing, Samsung ads. I don't recall anyone else you accuse of starting threads limited to no discussion, just ad like blurbs pro any other product. If anyone's posts could rival this westa's for being useless or insulting, yours might qualify. Thank You.

Wonderful reply. This westa6969 character who is clearly a very disturbed, immature individual and is now stalking me with private messages. Anyone else getting bugged by this disturbed person? Or Maybe he's just in love with me.Please post one of his PM's for proof, because if thats the case he should be banned for harassment...but on the other hand it seems you are know better...so everyone chill...THIS IS THE OWNERS FORUM. :rolleyes:

I think it is just a DEMO mode for in store sales. Since DNIe is fully integrated into the sets, they can't turn it off, but they can exaggerate the Demo side.

Correction: CAN'T turn it off

You're prolly right.

I was going by an earlier post from Watzkej;
"I have a question though. In the DNIe menu, at the far right near the bottom is an item "DNIe" which is default set to off. I happened to have Discovery HD on which was showing a flyby of green mountains. I set that to "ON" and the image looked much sharper and nicer. At first I thought this was a service menu way to turn on the DNIe demo but the whole screen looked nicer. However, when I power off the set then power it back on and enter the service menu, the gamma is still set at 0 but the DNIe setting is back to OFF. Is DNIe really turned off for some reason by default?"

It sounds as though when he toggled the DNIe "on" in the service menu the entire screen was affected positively, not the split screen when the demo button is pushed.

I'm also curious as to how/why they make the demo picture better (IMHO) than the default? Wouldn't it make more sense to do the opposite?

Please post one of his PM's for proof, because if thats the case he should be banned for harassment...but on the other hand it seems you are know better...so everyone chill...THIS IS THE OWNERS FORUM. :rolleyes:

Don't know if i'm doing this right. And to be fully honest i did reply to him with a rather nasty note suggesting he may not be totally sane.

However, this was before i realized he may have ulterior motives for his crude attacks on people and noticed that he started an entire thread of one-way, pro-Samsung ad like blurbs. I don't think anything can be more useless or non informative than strictly pro or strictly con discussions on anything.

Anyway, here goes. I can never understand why someone will initiate personal attacks on these forums. Attack some merchandise or product that you don't like, sure. But to attack someone personally? That's uncalled for and should not be tolerated here. Just my opinion.





westa6969
Advanced Member




Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Suburbs of Detroit - Support and Pray for our Troops!
Posts: 675 Your Gray matter is between your Butt Cheeks!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again just like Gazelle no FACTS to backup your B.S. - You can place your opinons where your brains are between your cheeks man! Your on the Ignore List where you belong with AHOLE Gazelle!

__________________
Clarifying 1080P - Click!
HD Critical Viewing Distance Article
THX VD Calculator
Samsung6768 (Ships?)
Yamaha YSP-1 AVR w/Orb Sub

When I do this all it does is turn my TV off & on :confused:

power off->Mute->1 8 2 ->power on

SammiK just ignore his statements and he will quit...neither of you are in the right...Man this forum was a great place to get info on all the new technologies coming out...Great for info on tweaks...I think once I get my unit...I will say good-bye to the forum...All this bashing is senseless...and it seems to be the same people doing it over and over again...Who cares what a person has for a TV or DVD player or whatever, if they are happy with it then let them be happy...its too bad as this is a fun hobby...this forum is going to the dogs. :mad:

I apologise if this has been asked already but the signal to noise ratio when searching for this in the thread is making it kind of hard to find an answer if it's already there:

I know in the manual/specs the HLRxxx8W sets support 1920x1080p over the D-sub input, but does the set support that resolution over HDMI? Or does it max out at 1080i? Has anyone actually tried to push 1080p over HDMI to the set yet?

Thanks in advance.

I apologise if this has been asked already but the signal to noise ratio when searching for this in the thread is making it kind of hard to find an answer if it's already there:

I know in the manual/specs the HLRxxx8W sets support 1920x1080p over the D-sub input, but does the set support that resolution over HDMI? Or does it max out at 1080i? Has anyone actually tried to push 1080p over HDMI to the set yet?

Thanks in advance.

Max's out at 1080i. But, people should keep trying to get 1080p to work.

When I do this all it does is turn my TV off & on :confused:

power off->Mute->1 8 2 ->power on

Turn on the help function in the normal menus. Then try again.

Why not join your good friend westa6969 who has posted a slew of glowing, Samsung ads.

Because that would be pointless. I am not "supporting" the inclusion of a review post that has nothing but glowing remarks, mind you. westa is not a "good friend", and there are plenty of his posts that bother me so I ignore them.


I don't recall anyone else you accuse of starting threads limited to no discussion

Please see PikminZeez posts for more information on the above. Furthermore, I would say that posting a new thread is no better or no worse than making posts in existing threads that do any of the following: Slamming one product for no reason and without evidence to back up their claims (Gazelle), posting glowing reviews without recognizing enough of the bad news or at least with not enough objectivity (westa), making threads or posts that have little or no purpose (PikminZeez), or posting comments that are not on topic with the given thread, particularly when they support one product that has not yet been released and slam another product at the same time (Gazelle).

Also, might I add, the problem I have with so many of Gazelle's posts are not that he supports JVC or Toshiba. That's actually a great thing, because those manufacturers do make great sets. My problem is that Gazelle puts down Samsung so much, usually without any supporting evidence. This is a guy who said Samsung is the only current dlp manufacturer that has sets that don't pass 5.1 through optical from HDMI (false, neither does Tosh, Mitsu, or JVC with their LCOS sets) in the Owner's thread. he also said that Samsung was a low-end manufacturer (also not true - see "mintek" and "Cyberhome"). He's just very negative on Samsung, and only positive on JVC and Toshiba, whose products have not yet come to market.

I have a problem with that. While excess positive spin supporting a product is a bad thing, I think few here would argue that posting negative comments regarding a product would be any better.

If anyone's posts could rival this westa's for being useless or insulting, yours might qualify. Thank You.

You're welcome.

Max's out at 1080i. But, people should keep trying to get 1080p to work.


How's the PQ on 1080i HDMI? Better or worse than using the D-Sub?

How's the PQ on 1080i HDMI? Better or worse than using the D-Sub?

PQ on the HDMI input is exceptional (source and equipment dependent, of course). I haven't done any testing of the VGA input yet ... it's going to take me a week or two to get there. I'm testing DVD players right now.

Turn on the help function in the normal menus. Then try again.

Slim,

The help function was on. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I have a suggestion for improving the signal/noise ratio of this thread:

Don't reply to anti- or pro-Samsung flames. Put the flamers on your ignore list. Don't respond to their posts with more content-free flamage.

Is that so hard?

The one exception I would make is if one of them posts direct misinformation that could mislead newbies. In that case, one person should patiently reply with evidence to the contrary, and then not engage in any further back-and-forth.

Otherwise, don't reply. Each time one of these flamers posts, five or six other well-meaning people post in response, doing even more harm to the thread than the original poster. It's pointless. If you ignore a stupid post, it will die. If you reply to it, it will continue to live.

If you just can't stand it and have to respond to the flamer to tell him/her what a jerk he/she is, send a PM. Don't do it here.

I promise this will be my only content-free post here. :) Any future posts by me on this thread will be about real impressions of or issues with my excellent new TV.

Would somebody be so kind as to guide me thru the steps to enter the service menu?

Thanks Mucho!

Rick

Slim,

The help function was on. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Another suggestion, start with the TV off, then push mute-1-8-2-Power.

Note it takes a few seconds after the picture to come on for the menu to appear.

hope this helps

How's the PQ on 1080i HDMI? Better or worse than using the D-Sub?

I have tried sending 1080p via HDMI from my PC but the tv reports "Mode Not Supported". 1080i via HDMI works fine but the computer display isn't as crisp as VGA.

Would somebody be so kind as to guide me thru the steps to enter the service menu?

Thanks Mucho!

Rick

Try this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5962827&&#post5962827

make sure melody is turned off.

For people that have connected PC's up to the VGA port at the 1920x1080 resolution, is the quality of the picture usable and a resolution that you would want your PC to be set to or do you have to fall back to a lower resolution i.e. 1280x1024 for it to be usable?

Which input are you using?
I am using HDMI. Haven't tested anything via component.

AkaStp Keep up the excellent workwith helping others...Just Ignore the Bad...Lets help get this thread back on topic...I have a lot to learn and hope I can contribute very soon.

Anyone have an opinion about weather the 5678 is better looking then the 5668, is it worth $400?

Thanks
Chuck

Well, my setup is finally complete and cleaned up so I can finally join the owners thread :) So far I love my new 6168 but think it may push me over the top to get a new AVR. Thinking Denon 4806.

Anyway, here is a pict - http://www.pbase.com/jakepratt/image/47562634

Very nice. I'm considering something very similar. How did you get the center channel up there? Home made or purchase? Can you give some details? And how does it work being that high? Thanks.

GeoMetro... I agree 100%. I also have the SA 8300HD and after lots of playing around, I found the best setting on the 8300 is to output 1080i only. I don't notice a significant difference in picture quality either way, but the channels change nearly instantaneously, and I really like that.

Hey wmwrose - thanks for reply. How is your aspect ratio set? Mine is set to widescreen 16:9 and sidebar 4:3. One thing I am not to thrilled about is that the local ABC, CBS, NBC stations are broadcasting in 720 HD so I get sidebars. Was hoping for better quality on locals. Also, are you using HDMI and able to get sound out of your Sammy?

Thanks!

Anyone have an opinion about weather the 5678 is better looking then the 5668, is it worth $400?

Thanks
Chuck

I think the opinions are about 50/50. I started out thinking I liked the xx68 style better, but have switched to prefering the xx78. Of course this may be a preference of convenience since I'm interested in the 71" set which only comes in the 78 style! I think if I were going to the 56" set, and if there were a $400 difference, I would go with the less expensive.

I have had lots of help from the members of this forum in making my first HDTV purchase. Thanks. Here are some thoughts, a picture, and a question in regards to my new 6168w.

(Attached is a picture of my new system)

Here is my configuration:
TV: Sasmung 6168
DVD: Samsung 850
Insight Digital Cable over Cable Card w/ HD Pack
Windows Media Center( Pentium 4 / 2GB RAM / Audigy 2 Pro / ATI All-In-Wonder 2006)
Onkyo TX-SR500 A/V Receiver
B&W 602 S3 Front R/L speakers
B&W LCR600 S3 center channel speaker
B&W LM1 Surround speakers
HSU VTF-2 Sub

1. TV Guide worked after two days
2. Picture is 100% gorgeous. I think the fact that I am using a Cable Card helps a lot (just an educated guess).
3. NO lip-synch issues with any of the TV channels. This is due to the lack of the set-top-box. Cable-card is great and highly recommended.
4. Slight lip-synch with the DVD player (1080i via HDMI). However, this has not really been noticeable unless you are really looking for it.
5. HTPC outputting 1080p via VGA (1920x1080). Looks great! I think I have it set to one-to-one pixel mapping. Lots of overscan with one-to-one mapping. In fact, I cannot see the WinXP task bar (unless I double the height of it). I can barely see the left row of desktop icons. I cannot see the upper right corner X and Maximize window buttons (if the window is maximized). Most of my PC use is Media Center or games... Hence this is not a big problem for me.
6. I am playing games in high resoultions... Slight lag is noticed in some games. I had to adjust my timing (especially with MVP baseball-hitting and pitching). In fact, I am not as good of a player as I used to be due to timing. This is nothing that as upset me too much. I can adjust!
7. DVD's look GREAT! I am really impressed at how the Samsung 850 upconverts and the TV does a wonderful job. Almost HD-quality!
8. Standard-def tv channels are also good. Much better than any other 60ish tv set that I have seen before.
9. I am not sure on if watching DVD's on my HTPC is better than the 850 yet. The HTPC handles dark scenes much better (see question #2 below). However, the 850 seems a little sharper.

Questions:
1. Do I need to get this set calibrated?! Here is why I am asking. Many of the dark scenes are hard-to-see. In fact, many scenes that I used to be able to clearly see are now dark. It is hard to differentiate from different shades of dark. I am watching in Movie mode with the following customization: Brightness is 48 and Contrast is 95--these were set to combat the darkness problems.

2. This question is almost the same as #1. The Samsung 850 produces even darker screens than the regular TV channels. I played some dark scenes from LOTR on the Samsung DVD player, then played them on the HTPC. The HTPC scenes were MUCH better in terms of the dark scenes! Is this a problem with this DVD player?

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice in my purchase.

(Attached is a picture of my new system)

Is anyone else having a hard time calibrating this tv. Here is what I am seeing.

First I select "Movie" then I go through the screens in DVE. Once I have everything setup to my tastes, I figure I am done. However, If I toggle to a different input and back to the original input, the brightness appears to be much darker than what I calibrated. Switching from Movie to Custom and back seems to put it back to the original brightness level (with my changes) but if the input changes it goes back to the darker picture?

Anyone else seen this weird behavior. I am having a heck of a time figuring out how to get it set correctly with this going on.
I spent all morning working on my set with the color, like you have done. My settings are also annoying to set, but they stay unlike your setting. When I set my custom colors and then switch through all the settings ad back to custom, the settings are the same aas I have set them just 5 minutes before. But then when you turn the TV off and on again, they cahnge back to the factory settings. Strange. Now this is strange. I will look into this more. It really doesnt bother me, becuase I like to use the Dynamic or Movie settings. So I am doing fine with this. Please let me know what you find out if before me. Thanks. :)

2. This question is almost the same as #1. The Samsung 850 produces even darker screens than the regular TV channels. I played some dark scenes from LOTR on the Samsung DVD player, then played them on the HTPC. The HTPC scenes were MUCH better in terms of the dark scenes! Is this a problem with this DVD player?

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice in my purchase.

(Attached is a picture of my new system)

My testing of the 850's big brother the 950 is not going well ... both the OPPO OPDV971V and Sony DVP-NS975V are doing well in my testing. You would be a lot happier with the OPPO or Sony. I'll be putting my results together later this week. PM me if you need to make a purchasing decision before then.

Very nice. I'm considering something very similar. How did you get the center channel up there? Home made or purchase? Can you give some details? And how does it work being that high? Thanks.
I floated the center channel (AudioCenter One) using a Sanus Milano 13B. It's depth is perfect for the 6168. My center weights around 25 pounds but the stand holds it very easily. It sits around an inch behind the tv with the stand pushed against the wall.

I know each input has it's own settings. All the settings for each, dynamic, standard, movie, and custom are remebered for each input. If you change a setting like brightness it will only affect that one choice on that one input.
Awe thanks, that answers my question. I didnt know that it is for each individual input. That makes sense. The book doesnt say anything about one settig per input. I will try to play with this more to see each input.

Watzkej,
could you see the phenomenon I was talking about in the hair on the head? I think there is a difference if the area of the hair is larger, like on a full head, not a small area like a mustache. Also, since head hair is more fine and closely combed together into groups. Do you see what I saw if you connect not thru HDMI?

You are saying that you see that on a good source, like DiscoveryHD over HDMI. So I would like to know if you saw it blurred when watching other channels?

I really would like isolate the problem and see if it is a problem with the feed, or something with the way the TV is working. Is it components vs. HDMI, or is it a bad component feed, weak signal, vs. a good component feed, like the one you'd get at home, without splitting into many TV sets like in a store situation.

HDNYC, one other thing I just thought about. When in the store next time and you see that effect you are writing about, check the Picture menu to make sure someone hasn't messed with the Sharpness settings.

Aside from that, I can only suppose it's the source. By source, I mean two things. One being the actual connection and another being the content being shown. I was also watching Spiderman 2 today like another poster was and the detail was stunning. However, yesterday there was a movie on HBO HD that was a much older movie. It looked like it had been converted for HD from some old source rather than having been created with HD in mind. Either of these issues can make an ugly picture.

Also, I'll try to hookup my SA8300 box to my 6178 with component this week and see if it makes any difference. I would think it will really make it look worse than HDMI. I'm sure both Component and HDMI will be stunning and although I haven't tested anything I would suppose the only difference between the two is that HDMI can actually carry audio along with video.

Another difference between the Samsung and Mits 1080ps is that Samsung has always-on DNIe and Mits has no DNIe at all, though the 628 version of the Mits has some additional picture enhancement features.
(Also, if you are comparing 1080p DLPs, don't forget to check out the new Toshiba 1080p DLPs (in 56" and 62" screen sizes) on Crutchfield's web site).
You can turn the DNIe off in the menu for all settings. I left mine on, because it looks better, than the DNIe off.

That is only the demo mode. DNIe is always on with the new sets, unless there is a way to turn it off in the service menu.

I think there may be an issue here regarding DNIe. On both my brother's and my 6178's, when we put the demo on, the picture on the left (DNIe on) looks noticeably better; brighter, more detailed, better color. The one on the right (DNIe off) looks exactly like the picture you get with the demo off. :confused:

Someone said he felt they labeled it backwards, but to us, it looks more like the DNIe is defaulted to off, and apparently, can't be permanently switched to on.

Go to Sammy's Site (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLR6168WX%2fXAA) and look at the DNIe picture, then watch the Demo, and you'll see what I'm referring to.

Are you guys seeing the same thing we are? If so, this is clearly a bug.
I totally see the same thing as you, but I can change mine from on to off or from off to on, in the main setup menu. No problem. I palyed with this today. I think that there is no bug at all. I called samsung tech support and they told me exactly how it works. It is better to leave the DNIe on, in my opinion. Your set should work the same as mine if you have the 68 or 78 series. I have two 6178 and they both work like the way I described it above.

I floated the center channel (AudioCenter One) using a Sanus Milano 13B. It's depth is perfect for the 6168. My center weights around 25 pounds but the stand holds it very easily. It sits around an inch behind the tv with the stand pushed against the wall.

So, you're saying there's a wall mount tv stand behind the tv to hold the center channel? Very creative. But I have to ask, what about the curtin?