last one

Anyone else watch Sin City on an 8W yet? Rainbows? I really like this movie and was hoping for it to be my first viewing experience on my first HDTV but maybe I should start with something safer? I have the 950 as well. Was it distracting (I know its different for everyone)?

8 days until my 5668 (is supposed to arrive).

I wouldn't make this your first choice as you may get discouraged by seeing rainbows. I have rarely seen rainbows in any other movies, but they are pretty evident to me in this one (Black & White). But that said, the PQ of this flick is sooooo amazing and almost surreal, that the rainbows really didn't bother me much. They mainly occured when I looked away and back at the screen quickly. What a movie! You'll either love it or hate it.

Bill

Looks like the second picture in set 2 is what we have been waiting for. Same as everyone else, DNIe Demo On/Off. Only the demo - you can't turn off DNIe itself.

one straggler..

Geez, now I sound like some other people here and I won't name names! I went on the TVA site first and got a price. I then went back on the site to get the PB price and it was the same, which didn't make sense. I then called TVA and the PB price was less. The price I paid was a little less than the Tweeter Private Sale price since we bought two. Therefore, the Private Sale price was TVA's regular price and my discount was between TVA's regular price and their PB price. Sorry about that. If my set isn't in on Monday like Tweeter said and TVA has it in stock, which they think they will have a shipment very soon, I'd consider ordering it from them. I guess the small amount of savings isn't worth the wait of TVA getting it in stock and then shipping it to Boston vs. just picking it up at Tweeter. The other thing is the matching Samsung stand I think is the same price at Worst Buy as TVA but I don't know if WB has it in stock in NH? Sorry for the confusion I was also looking at my friend's price. His 50" is still in the box! I don't know what is worse, the fact that mine isn't in stock yet or my friend hasn't plugged his in yet!

I was also looking at my friend's price. His 50" is still in the box! I don't know what is worse, the fact that mine isn't in stock yet or my friend hasn't plugged his in yet!
Why don't you and buddy swap units?

I'm sorry to keep asking this question, but can someone else check their Index delay setting in the Service Menu?

On my 6168 it's set to 51.

Edit: Interesting that it's so different on different people's sets (even at the same size). Before I set the gamma to 0, I was getting a little splotchiness in black areas (though not as bad as in your photos), and even now I feel like the color response in faces is sometimes off. Rather than fiddling with it, though, I'm going to wait for SethS, who said he might have a free slot on Monday to come out and do a full calibration...

I have a 5678 with geometry off 1/4 inch on right. I had another unit scheduled to come Saturday, but opted to call Samsung to see if they could adjust the DMD board based on the replacement reports I have read.

The tech called today and claimed he could fix it and will be here Monday. I will report back the results. The good news is I can still get a replacement from Tweeter if I am not happy.
My repair guy tried to adjust the DMD and made it worse. It was 3/16" and is now 3/8". He ordered a new one so lets see what happens to both of ours. Also can you check your overscan with a test pattern and see if its way off like mine is (1" vertically and about 1/2" horizontally)

Anybody know of a calibration company in the Phoenix area??

The bottom edge of my 6168W looks like... (see attached). The service guy will be here tomorrow at 9am to take a look at it.

Please let me know how this goes. Your image matches what I see on my set very closely.

Thanks,

John

Wow I hope my set isn't any worse. 1/4" tilt doesn't seem so bad anymore. Now I'm getting worried. I can't have them deliver the replacement until Tuesday and that will only give me 16 days until calibration day. Plus I can't keep taking the entire day off just to wait for delivery of the TV.

I think most movies are just up-shifted SD DVD's. I have a large movie collection (1000+) and for a while was comparing my up-shifted DVD's to HBO, Showtime movies and they looked the same.


It really is confusing.

I think we have a couple of things going on here. Some providers such as DirectTV over compress their signals. So what may have started out as a good transfer turns out looking like SD.

The other is that very simply, it looks like someone just ran a SD movie through a scaler.

One of my favorite problem children is trying to watch Law and Order on TNT-HD. The dog gone non linear stretching makes the show not watchable. Other times, it looks like a medium quality HD transfer with no stretching. Kinda make me wonder if they have episodes in 4:3 and others in 16:9 or if somebody's asleep at the transmission facility. :eek:

I do have to say that for now, my cable provider, Brighthouse, analog channels look the best they ever have. Since I watch a lot of SciFi network that's not in HD, I benefit. Now their HD transmission has an uncanny habit of freezing and pixelating during critical times in a movie, but never during a commercial. :mad:

one straggler..

Why does it have xHD3?

I'm not trying to start trouble, I'm trying to end it. I'm just trying to understand and reach closure which I thought we had done earlier today when you said you were mistaken and that there was NOT a DNIe on/off setting on your 88. That was disappointing to hear but at least it brought closure and made it a dead issue. But then you changed and said that there really IS a DNIe on/off setting on your 88 and so the confusion (at least for me) is back again. Is that not correct? What am I missing?

Btw, I can PM you my email address so you can send me the photos to see for myself if you like. I can also resize them and upload them.

To make this easier for me to understand, could you answer the following questions with a Yes or No answer...
Q: Does your HLRxx88 TV have the ability to turn DNIe On and Off aside from the DNIe Demo mode? If Yes, will we be able to see that in a photo that will be uploaded?
Thanks AkaStp. Now we know the truth from my pics. I still would like to take a picture of my 88 to really make sure. I will do this tomorrow when my unit gets fix. Mike sent all my photos and I am so thankful for this. Sorry for all this tension that I caused by my mistake, OOPS that was sure dump of me. From here on out, we are all cool. Thanks for not ignoring all. :)

BTW, the picture is also of the TRX2SB stand that people we asking to see. The taper glass is on the front of my stand. Better look too. Mine is all silver, But you can order it with black legs too. They come in the box. TRX3SB, I believe. Check out samsung web site, It is listed there. :)

I will keep you posted on the 88 series tomorrow afternoon. I swore that this one did have the DNIe function including the demo, But hold your horses or donkey's, let me look. :D

Thanks for understanding all.

Chris

Rather than fiddling with it, though, I'm going to wait for SethS, who said he might have a free slot on Monday to come out and do a full calibration...
You should be looking at a great set soon. See if you can get him to post his reactions to your 1080p and how it calibrated. Let us know what you think too.

Anybody know of a calibration company in the Phoenix area??
I think there is a good one and he should be mentioned in this thread.


Just got my Samsung DLP calibrated! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=542709&page=1&pp=30)

If he is not there then just contact some of the calibrators that participated in the thread and they will be able to help you.

how is that TV authority has them and SAMSUNG themselves dont? they have not shipped to anyone yet....period.

how is that TV authority has them and SAMSUNG themselves dont? they have not shipped to anyone yet....period.
Can you explain a bit more. Which sets are you referring to?

Ed

I too live in Phx. if you find someone let me know

I just ordered from TVA, first time...where did you get yours and what did you get>?

Can you explain a bit more. Which sets are you referring to?


the Samsungs 6768 or 7178

when talking about the "Calibration" is this something that NEEDS to be done or does it come calibrated from the factory?

the Samsungs 6768 or 7178
I didn't know that TVA was shipping those models. I guess I haven't been watching close enough or maybe I was distracted by DNIe issues. :o

I was kind of wondering about that to. As I'm probably one of the bad people I don't have much to lose so here's my recollection of the saga...
There was a DNIe on/off setting on the 68/78.
Lots of back and forth to try and get clarification.
No DNIe on/off on the 68/78.
The 88 came into the picture and it was that TV that had DNIe on/off.
Lots of back and forth to try and get clarification.
No-one else's 88 has DNIe on/off, just DNIe demo.
When we asked for pictures the digital camera was broken.
Then there was the blow-up, the name-calling, the departure and the return.
Then he apparently purchased a new digital camera and would take some photos.
Then he said he was wrong and that there was no DNIe on/off in the 88. So no need for photos.
Then he wants to go into his service menu and fiddle with the color wheel settings (time enough to do that apparently but not the DNIe photos).
Now we are back to there being DNIe on/off in the 88. But that TV is now broken.
The photos of the DNIe menu are too big too upload.
Did I miss anything?
What gives? A Sherlock Holmes mystery is easier to follow than this!
So, whodunnit?

Yes - I believe he was able to state what a value was from the non-working 88 set. I wonder if it does not turn on, how he was able to produce the value?

Not trying to bash anybody - just reporting things as I read them. :cool:

when talking about the "Calibration" is this something that NEEDS to be done or does it come calibrated from the factory?
It's your choice. It's a process that can get the best possible picture quality from TV sets. It's done by professionals who generally have been trained by ISF.

You can also buy a "Digital Video Essentials" disk and adjust contrast, brightness, and color to some extent.

Or if you are already happy with your TV's picture quality you can do nothing. That's what most people do. :)

At the advice of someone else in this forum I used the Omnimount CCH1. I had to move the rear legs up toward the front, but this was easy to do.


I did the same thing. The omni mount shelf comes in black & silver. I am a little worried about all that weight (15-20 Lbs) at the middle top of the screen, though.

My repair guy tried to adjust the DMD and made it worse. It was 3/16" and is now 3/8". He ordered a new one so lets see what happens to both of ours. Also can you check your overscan with a test pattern and see if its way off like mine is (1" vertically and about 1/2" horizontally)
Ouch, that is not encouraging. Are there any test patterns in SM? I don't have any discs and have not yet recorded HDNet patterns.

Are you ready for a laugh?

I've followed this thread for along time. Those who have done the same, not to mention those who have contributed, know what kind of time committment that is. I've been looking forward to upgrading my HLN507W1 with the 5078, particularly for the better contrast ratio. Now that they are finally local to me, I've gotten more excited.

Well, the 5078 is about one quarter inch taller than my HLN and it won't fit in my cabinet. After all this time, all I had to do was take the info on the very first page of this thread and the original 2005 model thread, measure, and make sure the tv fit. I wonder what I could have done with all that time. What a dope!

Why does it have xHD3?

My 5668 also lists xHD3 for "FPGA Select".

I didn't know that TVA was shipping those models. I guess I haven't been watching close enough or maybe I was distracted by DNIe issues. :o

TVA is shipping the 6768. No 7178's so far.

bcvp: there are a couple of things to consider with the TVA Power Buy. Those being no Tax and no Shipping. I don't know what your state's position is with out of state purchases, buy no Tax could potentially save you a few more $$$$.

Someone asked to see the report generated by SpyderTV after calibration.
See the images below. This gives you an idea what Spyder is doing.

BTW, I misquoted the value for brightness @ 51. It should be 53.

Thanks for posting this. I noticed that you are using standard/warm 2. Do you find warm 2 to provide a better picture than warm 1? Did you do any calibrations with warm 1?

Also, I was thinking of buying the SpyderTV, however, am I right that it will really only calibrate the DVD player since it needs the test patterns in order to calibrate? If I am right then I probably won't get it. What I really want is something similar that would calibrate my HDMI input being fed by a DirecTV HD TiVo.

Are you ready for a laugh?

I've followed this thread for along time. Those who have done the same, not to mention those who have contributed, know what kind of time committment that is. I've been looking forward to upgrading my HLN507W1 with the 5078, particularly for the better contrast ratio. Now that they are finally local to me, I've gotten more excited.

Well, the 5078 is about one quarter inch taller than my HLN and it won't fit in my cabinet. After all this time, all I had to do was take the info on the very first page of this thread and the original 2005 model thread, measure, and make sure the tv fit. I wonder what I could have done with all that time. What a dope!

People talk about a base portion that can be removed tha should get you your 1/4". I don't know if the 5078 has one or not. I just got my 5668 this week, and if there is a removable base, I don't see it.

The bottom edge of my 6168W looks like... (see attached). The service guy will be here tomorrow at 9am to take a look at it.

My 5668 is this way too. I could tell if it was just a bend up in the corner or if the display was pin cushioned. I only see it when the News has a white box crawl at the bottom of the screen. I am not sure if I will have it fixed (normally it is not easily seen). If I do, I will probably live with it for the next few months until the service supply chain is better filled.

The standard warrantee will still be in place, and it is not really worth swapping with the chance of getting an even worse set.

My 5668 is this way too. I could tell if it was just a bend up in the corner or if the display was pin cushioned. I only see it when the News has a white box crawl at the bottom of the screen. I am not sure if I will have it fixed (normally it is not easily seen). If I do, I will probably live with it for the next few months until the service supply chain is better filled.

The standard warrantee will still be in place, and it is not really worth swapping with the chance of getting an even worse set.

I am also concerned about swapping and may just wait for parts if that's what it needs. You mentioned "... display was pin cushioned", what does that mean? I've seen "pin cushion" mentioned in a few posts but have no clue what it means in terms of TVs.

For those of you that bought at Tweeters last weekend: I went by and there was a 10% discount sale. The "list" price minus the 10% was no where near TVA's price on the 6168.

Was there some other advertised or unadvertised discount that you were able to take advantage of?

Just wondering.
Their private sale was around 16-20% depending on the model.

Just goes to prove why I don't buy at Tweeter.

I think that you are right. I should not change this. My color wheel is working just fine. I thought that maybe my PQ could get better if I messed with the wheel. But like you said I should not mess with it if it works.
Good advice from a good guy.
Thanks! :)

Adding to this post, I will take pictures of my settings. Including the DNIe. However, I am wrong about that DNIe setting. :( I hold my head in shame and want to pass this situtation. ;)


I am not flaming you nor attacking you. I am as interested in learning more about these TVs as anyone else. Perhaps I'm just slower than most but I find many of your posts regarding the DNIe On/Off issue rather confusing. All I'm doing is asking for some clarification, nothing more. As you can see, I did not misquote you (see post #3333). So for the slower in the group, what exactly are you wrong about in regards to the DNIe setting? I too would like "to pass this situation".

Ouch, that is not encouraging. Are there any test patterns in SM? I don't have any discs and have not yet recorded HDNet patterns.
There are test patterns in the SM and he also had a test signal generator but neither gives you line numbers etc so I could not tell how far off the overscan was. At least with VE there are few test patterns that give you a scale.

I am also concerned about swapping and may just wait for parts if that's what it needs. You mentioned "... display was pin cushioned", what does that mean? I've seen "pin cushion" mentioned in a few posts but have no clue what it means in terms of TVs.
Pincushion Definition (http://winplanet.webopedia.com/TERM/P/pincushion_distortion.html)

Note it states its for CRT's. I am sure that the DLP's don't have the same cause but the effect is still there. Someone earlier mentioned its caused by the extreme expansion of the image from rear projection of a small source.

If you have some amount of overscan on 16:9 images you won't notice it. OTOH for 4:3 or 2.35 images you will notice it if its there.

So far in my informal investigation it seems like the 5668's are the ones reporting the problem. Perhaps I need to start a poll.

I am not flaming you nor attacking you. I am as interested in learning more about these TVs as anyone else. Perhaps I'm just slower than most but I find many of your posts regarding the DNIe On/Off issue rather confusing. All I'm doing is asking for some clarification, nothing more. As you can see, I did not misquote you (see post #3333). So for the slower in the group, what exactly are you wrong about in regards to the DNIe setting? I too would like "to pass this situation".
I know that you are not attacking me nor flaming me, this is cool. I want to clear all this up too ASAP. That is why I provided the pics. These pics are from my 6178 and it has the HD3+ chip, is this not right? Should it of had another tyoe of chip. Someone was asking about it.
I will be taking pics, I hope of my 88 today. It is currently not working, but it worked for 2 weeks and now died. I CONFUSED myself, OUCH!!! It was a bad day I guess. My bad. I bought some many different types of equipment recently, that I got confused on what I am working on from time to time and posting the wrong model number. This happened when I jump around a lot in one day. Forgive me.

Let me take Pics in VGA (small KB in size) so I can post what it looks like.

Yes - I believe he was able to state what a value was from the non-working 88 set. I wonder if it does not turn on, how he was able to produce the value?

Not trying to bash anybody - just reporting things as I read them. :cool:

My 5688 did work for about 2 weeks and then crashed (wont turn on), What value are you talking about? These pics that Mike posted for me are all from the 6178, not the 5688. I have no pics from that set yet.
But before my 5688 died, I did see the DNIe set up.

My 5668 also lists xHD3 for "FPGA Select".What happened to the XHD4 chip???? Man this is confusing :confused:

The bottom edge of my 6168W looks like... (see attached). The service guy will be here tomorrow at 9am to take a look at it.

Excuse please, I am new to forum. But where did you get the geometric grid to display?
brokat

What happened to the XHD4 chip???? Man this is confusing :confused:
I dont see that the XHD4 chip made it to these sets, Maybe they are holding out for next year's model. I sure dont have it on either set. I thought that Sasmung advertised these sets as having XHD4 chip? Am I wrong?
So what are we really getting is the question?
I need to research this more today.

Excuse please, I am new to forum. But where did you get the geometric grid to display?
brokat

It's just the desktop background on my HTPC. I created a single white rectangle with a fat black border in MS Paint, set it as my background and tiled it.

I dont see that the XHD4 chip made it to these sets, Maybe they are holding out for next year's model. I sure dont have it on either set. I thought that Sasmung advertised these sets as having XHD4 chip? Am I wrong?
So what are we really getting is the question?
I need to research this more today.I thought they would of had the XHD4 chip...funny Toshiba is advertising their units will have the XHD4... :(

It's just the desktop background on my HTPC. I created a single white rectangle with a fat black border in MS Paint, set it as my background and tiled it.
Same kind of thing here: Convergence Pattern (http://www.chickey.org/files/Converge_Test.gif)

Pincushion Definition (http://winplanet.webopedia.com/TERM/P/pincushion_distortion.html)

Note it states its for CRT's. I am sure that the DLP's don't have the same cause but the effect is still there. Someone earlier mentioned its caused by the extreme expansion of the image from rear projection of a small source.

If you have some amount of overscan on 16:9 images you won't notice it. OTOH for 4:3 or 2.35 images you will notice it if its there.

So far in my informal investigation it seems like the 5668's are the ones reporting the problem. Perhaps I need to start a poll.

I do not see pincushioning with my 5668.

My repair guy tried to adjust the DMD and made it worse. It was 3/16" and is now 3/8". He ordered a new one so lets see what happens to both of ours. Also can you check your overscan with a test pattern and see if its way off like mine is (1" vertically and about 1/2" horizontally)

ccouper... I would gues that my overscan (6168) is very close to yours based on the HD Net test patterns. There seemed to be more vertically than horizontally, and a little more on the bottom than the top. I posted awhile back my exact findings (overscan) on the HD Net pattern. It would be ineteresting to see what others find since that is probably accessable to most in the forum.

Bill

What happened to the XHD4 chip???? Man this is confusing :confused:

FPGA Select does not mean they are or are not using a "xHD4" chip. FPGA is a "field programmable gate array", not the DMD. Bothe the xHD4 and xHD3 are 1080p DMDs and probably require the same control and timing which is what I suspect the FPGA is providing.

It really is confusing.

I think we have a couple of things going on here. Some providers such as DirectTV over compress their signals. So what may have started out as a good transfer turns out looking like SD.

The other is that very simply, it looks like someone just ran a SD movie through a scaler.

Related to this, I watched the HBO HD version of Spiderman II yesterday and while the detail was very nice, the darks/shadows showed lots of pixelation(?) and/or blocking(?). I also have the Superbit version of this and the darks and shadows looked much better on the DVD.

I have confirmed that Samsung is using the XHD3 chip in there TV's, for new models. the XHD3 and XHD4 are 1080p DMD's.

I'm sorry to keep asking this question, but can someone else check their Index delay setting in the Service Menu?

When you enter service menu (start with TV off, press mute-1-8-2-power) you will see DDP1011 at the top. Then, press enter while highlighted on DDP1011 and you will find "Index Delay" Menu. Whatever that number says is what I'm looking for.

FYI-You won't mess anything up as long as you don't change any values, so you can just hit power to turn off again and then start back up as normal. If anyone can help me with this it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Clorox,

I have a 5668 and mine is set to 44. Just wanted to let you know. Not sure if I should adjust it any. I've started to notice my screen doing a kind of twinkle effect when watching HD contect (Discovery HD). Someone post their settings after doing a Sypder calibration with the mode set to standard, contract around 94 and a few other settings. I tried those numbers and it really brought out the twinkling effect. For me SD content has always looked pretty crappy when compared to a standard TV. Maybe I really need to get this thing calibrated????

Does anyone know of a review or personal test of which HD provider is better? I really don't like the idea of having to buy a HD receiver from Dish or Direct and therefore Comcast in Boston seems to be the way I want to go. Asside from the receivers from those three, who has the most or best channels in HD and what is the quality of these three? I'm guessing Direct might have better channels but people here don't like the PQ as much? That's my take but I have no idea.

Please let me know how this goes. Your image matches what I see on my set very closely.

Thanks,

John


The techs took a look at it and said there was nothing that could be adjusted, the DMD board would have to be replaced. I'll find out next week how long it will take to get a new board but I am leaning towards waiting for parts instead of risking an exchange.

Does anyone know of a review or personal test of which HD provider is better? I really don't like the idea of having to buy a HD receiver from Dish or Direct and therefore Comcast in Boston seems to be the way I want to go. Asside from the receivers from those three, who has the most or best channels in HD and what is the quality of these three? I'm guessing Direct might have better channels but people here don't like the PQ as much? That's my take but I have no idea.
Go here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45
Find the threads on Boston area HD providers and equipment.

The techs took a look at it and said there was nothing that could be adjusted, the DMD board would have to be replaced. I'll find out next week how long it will take to get a new board but I am leaning towards waiting for parts instead of risking an exchange.

I also needed a new board and as of a week ago there was no ETA on when the part would be available. Hopefully that has now changed, but the Samsung rep I spoke with said that based on that it could be anywhere between weeks and months. As a result, I went for an exchange, which was shipped out right away and is already on its way, however, I just hope that I didn't make a mistake. BTW - I too would've waited for the part if they had any idea of how long it would've taken.

Will Mor, just my two sense here. You could simply sell your set and cabinet and re-decorate your house! I think its worth the new TV. You could get a new stand for as low as $250 like the Samsung made for the TV.

I think it would be helpful to breakdown issues by size, model, and country, that is K or M. If you have your set serviced or exchanged it would be helpful to see if a 5078M had more issues and I'm also thinking about the SM settings to see if there is a pattern.

For those of you who have not been with us since the beginning of this thread or the other general HLR thread, the xHD4 designation is only used by us in this Forum. TI does not make a xHD3 or an xHD4 chip. If you ask TI they make a .85" 1080P DMD. TI in the past did use the xHD3 designation (CES04), but to the best of our knowledge these chips have never been put into a production model. About the time CES05 rolled around, it was clear that changes had been made to the xHD3 chip and we started to call it the xHD4. TI quit using the _HD_ terminology early this year and now uses a diagonal chip measurement (.55", .85" etc.) followed by the resolution (720P, 1080P).

Don't get wrapped around these designations. TI only makes one 1080p chip!

...my 88 series can turn the DNIe on or off. Not only for the Demo either. ... Why dont you guys go to Fry's and try there sets. The floor model at fry's in Burbank, CA showed the same thing that I have been talking about all along, Series 88 one. I


Fry's in Burbank has one HLRxxx8W floor model, that is a 5668. There is a 5087 on the floor, but no 5088. I was there yesterday and it is exactly the same set of floor models that were there a week ago Thursday and again on last Monday.

Lee

For those of you who have not been with us since the beginning of this thread or the other general HLR thread, the xHD4 designation is only used by us in this Forum. TI does not make a xHD3 or an xHD4 chip. If you ask TI they make a .85" 1080P DMD. TI in the past did use the xHD3 designation (CES04), but to the best of our knowledge these chips have never been put into a production model. About the time CES05 rolled around, it was clear that changes had been made to the xHD3 chip and we started to call it the xHD4. TI quit using the _HD_ terminology early this year and now uses a diagonal chip measurement (.55", .85" etc.) followed by the resolution (720P, 1080P).

Don't get wrapped around these designations. TI only makes one 1080p chip!

That may be true, but the SM for these sets does specifically describe it as an xHD3 chip.

Fry's in Burbank has one HLRxxx8W floor model, that is a 5668. There is a 5087 on the floor, but no 5088. I was there yesterday and it is exactly the same set of floor models that were there a week ago Thursday and again on last Monday.

Lee
I was there on Thursday shopping for work, maybe we crossed each other's path and didnt even know it. I was looking at that TV that Fry's has on the floor. It is on the back end cap in the TV section? It has a black entertainment center around it. Is this the one? It is the 5087, but isnt the 5087 and 5088 the same? They sure look the same. My 88 looks the same as the 87. I will go back next week sometime to check it out. They told me that they had the 5088 on the floor, but I could not find it. The sales people relly dont know much, I think.

That may be true, but the SM for these sets does specifically describe it as an xHD3 chip.And Toshiba states it will have a XHD4...there has to be something to this.

That may be true, but the SM for these sets does specifically describe it as an xHD3 chip.
Another team member called me back today from Samsung and told me that the new sets have the xHD4 chip in them. Then why does the menu show in my pics, xHD3? I also thought that TI got rid of the xHD3 chip and replaced it with the xHD4, calling it a different name instead of using xHD3 or xHD4. Well, I mean different chip design .55, .85, etc.
Now I dont know who to believe, But maybe in fact that the xHD3 and xHD4 are the same chip, just different size .55, .85, etc. and now a new name.
This is cool as long as these TV's work that is fine with me.

On my 6168 it's set to 51.

Edit: Interesting that it's so different on different people's sets (even at the same size). ...


As I put in am earlier post, since this appears to set the sync of the DMD chip to the color wheel, and the wheel is a mechanical device, I would really expect there to be differences, even significant ones.

Lee

quick question: Do the 1080p sets have the option to turn off DNIe? As opposed to the new 720p that only have the demo to show on and off modes.

I was there on Thursday shopping for work, maybe we crossed each other's path and didnt even know it. I was looking at that TV that Fry's has on the floor. It is on the back end cap in the TV section? It has a black entertainment center around it. Is this the one? It is the 5087, but isnt the 5087 and 5088 the same? They sure look the same. My 88 looks the same as the 87. I will go back next week sometime to check it out. They told me that they had the 5088 on the floor, but I could not find it. The sales people relly dont know much, I think.

5087 is the 720 pedistal model (which may explain the DNIe difference). There is no 5088, only a 5688, which is the one we're assuming you own and claim its menu, now, to be the same as the 5087 you saw at Fry's. Please do no say that something is confirmed with anything other then the exact model number. It will clear up a lot of confusion if every fact posted is referenced in line to the model number.

EDIT: DOH! Guess I was too slow AkaStp! It seems to be pretty clear what the issue was now... but i'm sure, as always, people want something clearer from the horses mouth, so to speak.

That may be true, but the SM for these sets does specifically describe it as an xHD3 chip.
What makes you think it's referring to the DMD chip?

Schaffer970's history of the 1080p DMD chip matches what I remember.

I'm not an engineer, but this information makes sense to me too.

FPGA Select does not mean they are or are not using a "xHD4" chip. FPGA is a "field programmable gate array", not the DMD. Bothe the xHD4 and xHD3 are 1080p DMDs and probably require the same control and timing which is what I suspect the FPGA is providing.

This information doesn't.

I have confirmed that Samsung is using the XHD3 chip in there TV's, for new models. the XHD3 and XHD4 are 1080p DMD's.

Fact. TI had a demonstration set with a DMD chip at CES 2004. They referred to it as their xHD3 DMD chip.

Fact. When the 1080p sets were introduced at CES 2005 TI no longer used the same nomenclature for their DMD chips. BUT, the specifications for their 1080p chip had been improved significantly. ALL the 1080p sets have the new improved version of TI's 1080p wobulated smooth DMD chip. :rolleyes:

I was there on Thursday shopping for work, maybe we crossed each other's path and didnt even know it. I was looking at that TV that Fry's has on the floor. It is on the back end cap in the TV section? It has a black entertainment center around it. Is this the one? It is the 5087, but isnt the 5087 and 5088 the same? They sure look the same. My 88 looks the same as the 87. I will go back next week sometime to check it out. They told me that they had the 5088 on the floor, but I could not find it. The sales people relly dont know much, I think.
The HLR5087 is a 720p pedestal model and may indeed have the ability to turn off DNIe since it's internals are probably very much like the HLP model from 2004.

It's no surprise to us Fry's fans that Fry's TV sales people would be confused about such a minor detail. :)

Once in a while someone asks how I came to post so many times. Trying to unscramble information snarls is one reason. ;)

Trying not to start information snarls is another. :rolleyes:

Thanks for posting this. I noticed that you are using standard/warm 2. Do you find warm 2 to provide a better picture than warm 1? Did you do any calibrations with warm 1?

Also, I was thinking of buying the SpyderTV, however, am I right that it will really only calibrate the DVD player since it needs the test patterns in order to calibrate? If I am right then I probably won't get it. What I really want is something similar that would calibrate my HDMI input being fed by a DirecTV HD TiVo.

Rich,

The software uses test patterns generated from a DVD. My player is connected via HDMI, and, when HDMI is used the "Hue" adjustment in the Sammy is greyed out. I left all my settings on the DVD player to "0". I believe this is about as neutral of a source that is easily obtainable.

The color temp is one of the first adjustments you make. My understanding is the color temp is just a rudimentary grayscale adjustment. The software has you check all color temp settings, and then suggests the closest to the target grayscale. In this case it was warm 2. All other adjustments are done after setting the correct temp, so this leads me to believe it is the most critical.

Rick

I was there on Thursday shopping for work, maybe we crossed each other's path and didnt even know it. I was looking at that TV that Fry's has on the floor. It is on the back end cap in the TV section? It has a black entertainment center around it. Is this the one? It is the 5087, but isnt the 5087 and 5088 the same? They sure look the same. My 88 looks the same as the 87. I will go back next week sometime to check it out. They told me that they had the 5088 on the floor, but I could not find it. The sales people relly dont know much, I think.

Two weeks ago, the Fry's knuckleheads ..er..sale associates told me the same thing. They were wrong, that display unit is a 5087, 720P pedestal model, therefore the DNIe can be turned off. The ONLY 1080P in the Burbank Fry's is a 5668 and only the DNIe Demo mode can be turned on or off.

Lee

Uh, no! The 87 is a 50" 720p set, the 88 is a 56" 1080p set. According to Samsung's web site there is no 5088.

Acording to the manual, the 5087 has a DNIe On/Off setting but the 5688 does not. So, if you viewed a 5087 in the store you WILL find a DNIe on/off menu but you said you have a 5688 at home which, according to the manual and other owners, does NOT have this menu (though you claim it does).
I have the 5688 model. Boy these models are confusing, only to me? Anyway, The one at Fry's which is the 5087 has the DNIe on/off like you said. I really beleive that it is not found on the 5688 model that I have, but I would love to check still, but mine is dead. I think that I will scrap this model and trade it in for the 6178 for upstairs. Now the 88 is smoking in the rear. I am so feed up with this set.

Now the 88 is smoking in the rear.

Believe me; after all your nonsensical posts, the rest of us on this forum, and your TV, now share something in common. :D

quick question: Do the 1080p sets have the option to turn off DNIe?

Now that's funny!

Believe me; after all your nonsensical posts, the rest of us on this forum, and your TV, now share something in common. :D
We do now share something in common and I though that I was living in style, not with a dead set in my house, Upstairs too. OUCH!!! :mad: Sense it is broken, should I take it apart? My warranty might be voided then. I want a new set and dont want this fixed. What a junker. I will ask for the 6178 or even the 6768, why not. :)
I now feel all your pain of everything. :D

Not all my post were nonsensical. I did help many of the people here about the TV stand dimensions, Index delay number, and my pics did help, Right?

What did you think about my home setup so far? I might change it a little.

We all need to drop the discussion of whether you can turn DNIe off, regardless who has been misinformed and who has done the misinforming. It has wasted so much space on this thread.

Until someone posts a picture that shows otherwise, I think it is settled that DNIe does not have an On/Off option other than the demo.

Let us move on.

AkaStp: Probably a good thing that you mention that you are not anti-Sony given the review (from another site) that follows:

Sony KDL-32XBR950

Home Review Video Specs User opinions Essentials Compare Where to buy Log In

User rating
Perfect

10 out of 10"VERY BEST TV EVER, AWESOME AND VERY GOOD QUAILTY!!"

by Stallionre (cnet member) - June 7, 2005

Pros: EASE TO USE AND TO LEARN. VERY SLEEK, VERY NICE PICTURE AND

FEATURES.
Cons: NOTHING TO REPORT

end

StallionRe ... Here is a link to accurate and complete information on the 2005 Samsung DLP models: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4954868#post4954868). If you want to constantly post in an advanced thread like this one, please commit this basic knowledge to memory first. You are constantly opening up closed issues, giving out misleading information, and making it generally difficult to raise the level of analysis and dialog in this thread. Sorry for the direct comments, but I am sure I speak for the many owners that are hoping this thread will step up to the next level. If you are new to this hobby, it is OK just read the posts and not comment.

We all need to drop the discussion of whether you can turn DNIe off, regardless who has been misinformed and who has done the misinforming. It has wasted so much space on this thread.

Until someone posts a picture that shows otherwise, I think it is settled that DNIe does not have an On/Off option other than the demo.

Let us move on.Thank You Clorox... you took the words right out of my mouth...Enough already!

Does anyone have a manual or something that states what the bandwidth or really the mhz is on the 78's? I think I have everything solved but now it seems the 1080 has to be 186-200mhz in order to have true 1:1 mapping and all of that good stuff. I went to page one here and to the specs at Samsung and couldn't find the mhx. Thanks again.

StallionRe ... Here is a link to accurate and complete information on the 2005 Samsung DLP models: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4954868#post4954868). If you want to constantly post in an advanced thread like this one, please commit this basic knowledge to memory first. You are constantly opening up closed issues, giving out misleading information, and making it generally difficult to raise the level of analysis and dialog in this thread. Sorry for the direct comments, but I am sure I speak for the many owners that are hoping this thread will step up to the next level. If you are new to this hobby, it is OK just read the posts and not comment.
POINT TAKEN. Yes I am also a Sony fan, since 1991. I am glad that AkaStp likes Sony. I am on many forums, thanks for the Heads up and information, because I thought that I forgot the rules. :D

StallionRe ... Here is a link to accurate and complete information on the 2005 Samsung DLP models: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4954868#post4954868). If you want to constantly post in an advanced thread like this one, please commit this basic knowledge to memory first. You are constantly opening up closed issues, giving out misleading information, and making it generally difficult to raise the level of analysis and dialog in this thread. Sorry for the direct comments, but I am sure I speak for the many owners that are hoping this thread will step up to the next level. If you are new to this hobby, it is OK just read the posts and not comment.

I agree I am at the point of not reading it anymore

Thank You Clorox... you took the words right out of my mouth...Enough already!
I gave up on the issue of DNIe on/off no matter what. :D :eek:

I am getting a new TV next week. It will ship today, the 67" is in stock.

My 88 will be removed tomorrow.

The techs took a look at it and said there was nothing that could be adjusted, the DMD board would have to be replaced. I'll find out next week how long it will take to get a new board but I am leaning towards waiting for parts instead of risking an exchange.
So you are at the same place I am. I called SS after the tech guy left and stated he could not fix it. They stated they would have to wait for his SAW(?) - his report. They were indicating that they would have to replace the TV.

I don't think there are a sufficient number of good DMDs out there to keep doing that. Clorox has eaten into much of the supply :)

StallionRe ... Here is a link to accurate and complete information on the 2005 Samsung DLP models: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4954868#post4954868). If you want to constantly post in an advanced thread like this one, please commit this basic knowledge to memory first. You are constantly opening up closed issues, giving out misleading information, and making it generally difficult to raise the level of analysis and dialog in this thread. Sorry for the direct comments, but I am sure I speak for the many owners that are hoping this thread will step up to the next level. If you are new to this hobby, it is OK just read the posts and not comment.

AMEN...this has been KILLING me.


Now, back to the matter at hand.

I know UCSB did a quick test run with a Panasonic s97 a while back, but I am curious to hear from owners who have been using this player with the new Sammys for a while now. Thanks in advance for any feedback regarding the Sammy 1080p's with the s97.

Don't forget there is the "Ignore List" that can be used. It allows you to eliminate a given individuals postings from being seen. I only have one individual on my Ignore List (and no it's not you StallionRE) it is very effective at keeping the blood pressure down.

Don't forget there is the "Ignore List" that can be used. It allows you to eliminate a given individuals postings from being seen. I only have one individual on my Ignore List (and no it's not you StallionRE) it is very effective at keeping the blood pressure down.
I've used it in the past but haven't needed it lately. Does that mean I have too much free time?

If you do use the "Ignore List" you still see that there are messages with a link, and you can still open them. There are also the quotes to get through. :eek:

UCSB:

At the risk of getting rained on (or worse) I have to say that I like reading Stallionre's posts and his sometimes shoot from the hip opinions. Instead of cutting him off, can we (you) give him his own Stallionre's Samsung Sidebar thread - or something like that? I bet it would be very popular and provide a place for members to loosen up from time to time without contaminating the primary threads which necessarily should be more exact and data oriented. In exchange, perhaps he could agree to only post in his own thread.

Thanks.

Stallionre - if you object to this, then I apologize and defer to you. Just trying to find a way to keep you posting and posting an posting and posting.

As this is my first large screen HD set (6168), I would like to make a PQ observation and make certain that this is normal given the DLP technology in the new 1080p's...

It seems that whenever there is a very fast transition in the content (DVD or HD cable) from light to dark - like a strobe or moving spotlight effect or some bright action that comes across previous dark material (pixels) - I get considerable momentary breakup of the picture in that area. I'm not sure if you refer to this as pixelation(?) or microblocking(?). Is this normal for these sets? It doesn't really bother me much as it only occurs rarely, but it sure is ugly when it happens. :(

Thanks!

Don't forget there is the "Ignore List" that can be used. It allows you to eliminate a given individuals postings from being seen. I only have one individual on my Ignore List (and no it's not you StallionRE) it is very effective at keeping the blood pressure down.
Thanks for not ignoring me all. I am sorry that I started something in the past. All is forgiven and is done.

On to another subject, Does anyone know if at what temperature a room can be that will effect the TV's. What I mean is that at what Temperature inside a room is the hottest that it can ever be for the 6178 and 6768 would stop working properly?
On these TV's models, does an internal fan kick in at different speeds for the raising temp, IE like a computer CPU fan with auto speed control?

Does the lamp have its own fan unit to keep it cool? And one more question, "How far from the wall should the TV be for the heat to escape from the back of the unit"?
Thanks in advance.

... can we (you) give him his own Stallionre's Samsung Sidebar thread - or something like that?
Anyone can start a thread about any topic that relates to RPTV in this forum, or they can start threads in any of the many AVS home theater related forums.

StallionRE can and does post in this thread. He has just been asked to read more and double check for accuracy before he wonders off down confused or unrelated paths.

I know UCSB did a quick test run with a Panasonic s97 a while back, but I am curious to hear from owners who have been using this player with the new Sammys for a while now. Thanks in advance for any feedback regarding the Sammy 1080p's with the s97.

I've been using this player with 6168 since I got the tv. What do you want to know? I don't see macroblocking with anything I've watched so far, animorphic dvd's look amazing upscaled to 1080i over hdmi connection, I've set the audio delay feature to 100ms to compensate for lag. I noticed color banding in Finding Nemo, but some say its normal, others say its the dvd player. I don't see banding in other dvd's that have color progression in the darker colors so I'm not sure what to make of that. I have it upgraded to the latest firmware as indicated in the thread in the dvd section.

Not to be critical but this is precisely why I spent the past month trying to extract reviews from all this chatter. You get dizzy following this back and forth on DNIe and other issues. To clear something up with the reviews thread I posted for Samsung 1080P's it says in the title "No Chatter" and some misinterpreted that as a rule when in fact it meant they can see reviews without stuff like the DNIe, et al. So far I've been called insane, a Samsung Whore, and idiot and many other expletives for simply trying to offer this up without this insane bickering. Don't we all at one time or another need to just get to the meat of what the PQ is? With as many new sets that were delivered this past week I've seen very few reviews posted.

As I told others I own a Sony and Sharp LCD FP's which I like very much and the worst TV in my home is actually a Samsung 31" CRT DV that is HD but 3 years old and cannot hold a candle to my LCD FP's. I'm also bordering tween the SXRD and the Samsung DLP and that hardly makes me a Samsung Cheerleader or Whore. I also placed a poll in the thread and it's results after 2 days are pretty interesting and I didn't slant anything towards Samsung. Just reading the past 3 pages on the DNIe and chip designation demonstrates one of the reasons I did this and I am within the rules of this forum by doing so. It was with the intent of being helpful to others - not to be whore/Cheerleader or the many other insults I've had to take. I have not used it to bash anyone's TV brand or preference. If I'd been shopping for a Sony I would have done the same thing - but it wasn't available until the last week or so. Thanks and hope DNIe is dead and gone as UCSB has seemed to corrected this. Those reviews are not made up by me - they are copied and pasted to a running text file and edited for formatting on the forum - they are from the real folks that have either seen them in the stores of bought them. People are free to discuss and contradict those reviewers statements all they want - but how it's turned into an insult forum while I was trying to help folks that may want to see the reviews without spending 14 hours reading this owners thread.

Good Day Folks! :D

What firmware version do you have in your Panny S97?

541. I upgraded it a few weeks ago.

On to another subject, Does anyone know if at what temperature a room can be that will effect the TV's. What I mean is that at what Temperature inside a room is the hottest that it can ever be for the 6178 and 6768 would stop working properly?
In other discussions there has been no definitive information about maximum room temperature. These sets will probably work fine in rooms where you are still functioning. :)

On these TV's models, does an internal fan kick in at different speeds for the raising temp, IE like a computer CPU fan with auto speed control?
So far the Samsung fans have been fixed speed.

Does the lamp have its own fan unit to keep it cool?
Probably. In earlier models there have been two and then three fans. I don't know how many the 1080hp models have.

And one more question, "How far from the wall should the TV be for the heat to escape from the back of the unit"?
It's in your manual. I believe Samsung recommends 4" inches from the wall. Looking at the set from the rear, the cool air intake is on the lower left side. The hot air exhaust is on the lower right side. Those two areas need free flowing air.

Our HLP5063 exhausts air that is slightly warm. The TV is not enclosed in any way so there can be no heat buildup that effects the air intake.

I noticed color banding in Finding Nemo, but some say its normal, others say its the dvd player.
Back in my audition days I took "Finding Nemo" everywhere I went, and watched it "band" on all the DLP sets (including the Sim2 and Loewe). It also banded on all the LCD RPTV sets. I think it may have banded on a Mitsubishi Diamond and Pioneer Elite as well. I was obsessed.

In the forum dedicated to DVD content there seemed to be a consensus that it was "Nemo's" fault so I gave up my search.

I did see a HLN507 calibrated by SethS that reduced the "Nemo" banding enough that you had to know where to look in order to see it.

Our SethS calibrated HLP5063 doesn't cover it up as much.

In other discussions there has been no definitive information about maximum room temperature. These sets will probably work fine in rooms where you are still functioning. :)


So far the Samsung fans have been fixed speed.


Probably. In earlier models there have been two and then three fans. I don't know how many the 1080hp models have.


It's in your manual. I believe Samsung recommends 4" inches from the wall. Looking at the set from the rear, the cool air intake is on the lower left side. The hot air exhaust is on the lower right side. Those two areas need free flowing air.

Our HLP5063 exhausts air that is slightly warm. The TV is not enclosed in any way so there can be no heat buildup that effects the air intake.
:) Thanks this is a great help. No matter how many fans that the Tv's have, they are sure super quite. I cant hear them at all and I am well pleased of how Samsung made these sets. I will make sure that I leave 4". Do these fans ever need replacing? Or cleaned off from time to time?

I suspect that the S97 that UCSB viewed in the store might have been an early firmware version or perhaps not set up optimally. What do you have the Brightness, Contrast and Gamma set to on your S97?

I'll have to look that one up later tonight when I get home from work. One thing I did do though was set the options as recommended over in the S97 thread.

So far I've been called insane, a Samsung Whore, and idiot and many other expletives for simply trying to offer this up without this insane bickering.
Most of those comments come from a very small number of sources. One of them is sure that Samsung controls AVS forums. :rolleyes:

I'll have to look that one up later tonight when I get home from work. One thing I did do though
... did the boss just walk in? :eek:

I hope of my 88 today. It is currently not working, but it worked for 2 weeks and now died.
Have you tried unplugging the set for a few minutes and plugging it back in?

Suggest in future, use a battery backup. It will save not only your TV, but your bulb also, in case of a power failure.

We all need to drop the discussion of whether you can turn DNIe off, regardless who has been misinformed and who has done the misinforming. It has wasted so much space on this thread.

Until someone posts a picture that shows otherwise, I think it is settled that DNIe does not have an On/Off option other than the demo.

Let us move on.

Calm down. I was asking a frequent question to confirm the answer to everyone.

I was there on Thursday shopping for work, maybe we crossed each other's path and didnt even know it. I was looking at that TV that Fry's has on the floor. It is on the back end cap in the TV section? It has a black entertainment center around it. Is this the one? It is the 5087, but isnt the 5087 and 5088 the same? They sure look the same. My 88 looks the same as the 87. I will go back next week sometime to check it out. They told me that they had the 5088 on the floor, but I could not find it. The sales people relly dont know much, I think.
There is no 5088 pedestal. The only 1080p pedestal is the 5688. The 5087 pedestal is a 720p model and may very well have DNIe on/off as the HLP models reportedly had.

I suspect that the S97 that UCSB viewed in the store might have been an early firmware version or perhaps not set up optimally. What do you have the Brightness, Contrast and Gamma set to on your S97?

I would agree that the player that I was using probably contained an early firmware release. Plus, I now think that it is impossible to really get an accurate view of what a player is capable of in a store. Macroblocking varies greatly from DVD to DVD. Some DVD's have virtually none, while others have more problems. Plus macroblocking is one of those picture defects that one person may be more sensitive to than another individual, so it is really hard to quantify. I really like the S97 and I am still trying to get one for a more in-depth review.

AkaStp
You Mr. DNIe! Over and over and over . . . UCSB had to ask you guys to cool it and just put the issue to rest with DNIe and the Chip debate. Back and forth I didn't say you didn't have a right but some folks don't want to read those petty back and forth issues - we know how to research on our own from the sources that exist at the manufacturer that created the product rather than people trying to GUESS. :D

I've been using this player with 6168 since I got the tv. What do you want to know? I don't see macroblocking with anything I've watched so far, animorphic dvd's look amazing upscaled to 1080i over hdmi connection, I've set the audio delay feature to 100ms to compensate for lag. I noticed color banding in Finding Nemo, but some say its normal, others say its the dvd player. I don't see banding in other dvd's that have color progression in the darker colors so I'm not sure what to make of that. I have it upgraded to the latest firmware as indicated in the thread in the dvd section.

MikeAlletto: That's the type of feedback I've been interested in. I have the player but I have not opened it. I didn't want to spoil the experience with my Mits...I won't open it until my 6768 gets here. Did you notice macroblocking with the s97 on your previous set? I'm trying to determine if the macroblocking is less of an issue, or maybe a non-issue with the new Sammy 1080p's.

... did the boss just walk in? :eek:

Hahaha, no. I was switching apps and hit the space bar by accident which sent the message. I went back and finished my thought.


MikeAlletto: That's the type of feedback I've been interested in. I have the player but I have not opened it. I didn't want to spoil the experience with my Mits...I won't open it until my 6768 gets here. Did you notice macroblocking with the s97 on your previous set? I'm trying to determine if the macroblocking is less of an issue, or maybe a non-issue with the new Sammy 1080p's.

Well my previous set was a normal 27" tv. I didn't notice any macroblocking at all on it but then again it was a rather small tv.

There is no 5088 pedestal. The only 1080p pedestal is the 5688. The 5087 pedestal is a 720p model and may very well have DNIe on/off as the HLP models reportedly had.
Thanks for that correction. I just saw at Bestbuy in LA, that they are getting rid of the 5087 and will show on the floor the 5688 model soon. The 1080p is better looking in PQ than the 720p models.

My 5688 is totally dead. The back literally is all burnt up. I had it hooked to a Monster power distrubtor/surge unit that I paid $1,499.99. The TV went bad not the Monster unit. http://www.monstercable.com/power/lineRefPower.asp

Look at the link. The Monster unit is still good. I have other things plugged into it and it works just fine. TV repair man, said the TV unit is trashed, no reason of mine. I actually like that model, but now dont trust it.

AkaStp
You Mr. DNIe! Over and over and over . . . UCSB had to ask you guys to cool it and just put the issue to rest with DNIe and the Chip debate. Back and forth I didn't say you didn't have a right but some folks don't want to read those petty back and forth issues - we know how to research on our own from the sources that exist at the manufacturer that created the product rather than people trying to GUESS. :D

Well, if you really read and comprehended the DNIe issue, you would understand that Samsung SAYS DNIe is always on, but we are seeing different.

What we're trying to determine is why the discrepancy in what is being said and what is being seen by most of us.

Who do you believe, Samsung or your lying eyes?

UCSB:

At the risk of getting rained on (or worse) I have to say that I like reading Stallionre's posts and his sometimes shoot from the hip opinions. Instead of cutting him off, can we (you) give him his own Stallionre's Samsung Sidebar thread - or something like that? I bet it would be very popular and provide a place for members to loosen up from time to time without contaminating the primary threads which necessarily should be more exact and data oriented. In exchange, perhaps he could agree to only post in his own thread.

Thanks.

Stallionre - if you object to this, then I apologize and defer to you. Just trying to find a way to keep you posting and posting an posting and posting.

ROFLMAO :D :D

So you are at the same place I am. I called SS after the tech guy left and stated he could not fix it. They stated they would have to wait for his SAW(?) - his report. They were indicating that they would have to replace the TV.

I don't think there are a sufficient number of good DMDs out there to keep doing that. Clorox has eaten into much of the supply :)

I opted for replacement of my set after reading your lastest posts. It will be here tomorrow. I will have them turn on new set and test before they take my current one away. I also will keep the repair tech scheduled for Monday just in case :rolleyes:

So, I am of the understanding that our new Sammy's won't accept 1080P feeds, correct? Not that it matters yet since there don't seem to be any.

The reason I ask is that we are buying Terminator 2 DVD from Amazon and it states:
Digitally mastered from a brand-new 1080p, 24sf high-definition digital telecine transfer for superior video and audio quality

So, I put the 1080P version in my Oppo which will convert to 1080i and send to Sammy who will convert to 1080P, right? If so, then the PQ should not be degraded in any way, correct?

Thanks!

ROFLMAO :D :D


Clorox - does that man you like the idea too? We want Stallionre! Maybe we could promote a Westa vs Stallion debate on DNIE issues in the first sidebar discussion.

Regardless of what it was mastered from, the DVD is still 480i. There is no 1080p version of the DVD. You should see what looks best from your Oppo, either outputting at 720p (in which case I think the DVD's 480i is deinterlaced to 480p and then scaled to 720p) and have the TV scale it to 1080p or having the Oppo output at 1080i (in which case I think the DVD's 480i is scaled to 1080i) and the TV will deinterlace it to 1080p. Either way there will be deinterlacing and/or scaling in the DVD player and/or the TV.

Actually, there is a version of Terminator 2 that is encoded using Windows Media 9 and can be played on a computer or player that supports WM9.

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/38662/38662.html

I would love to give it a try.

Actually, there is a version of Terminator 2 that is encoded using Windows Media 9 and can be played on a computer or player that supports WM9.

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/38662/38662.html

I would love to give it a try.

This is correct, I have the disc (thought every HT person had to own T2!!) and both a regualr copy and the HD 1080p copy are there.


GeoMetro-

Yes, its well established that both firewire and vga inputs will accept 1080p, so simply drag the computer over, slap the vga cable on there, fire up WMP9, and enjoy what is likely the only complete movie in 1080p until HDDVD and Blu-Ray!! Not to mention it is an action classic!

Actually, thanks for the reminder, I probably wouldn't have remembered for a while but now I'll make a note to watch this when the tv comes a week from now!

I've got the HLR5668W and have been very pleased with it so far. Last night, while watching a standard-defintion program with the TV picture set to 4:3 aspect ratio, I started to notice bright, fuzzy, vertical stripes -- about one-pixel wide -- on each side of the picture area.

The bright, fuzzy stripes are there all the time along the boundary between the picture area and the gray stripes on each side of the 4:3 display. It's subtle, but now that I've noticed these stripes, they've become a distraction.

Could this be overscan? (It looks like the picture is trying to creep into the gray bars on each side of the screen.) Has anyone else noticed this issue? Any suggestions on how to get rid of these fuzzies?

Play that from your PC with 1080p out like mine and it should play 1080p. Cool. Maybe I'm missing something?

One thing is no one answered my question about the mhz on the 5678? Anyone?

Really?I stand corrected. ;)
I wonder if that is the DVD that GeoMetro is referring to?
Would such a player include the Oppo? How about the S97?
Even if the DVD was 1080p the DVD player would only be able to output 1080i, right? In which case the DVD player would have to convert the 1080p from the DVD to output it at 1080i and then the TV would deinterlace it back to 1080p, right?

Yes, I do believe this is the version :) :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008PC2O/ref=ord_cart_shr/104-8229133-4477514?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

My Oppo defaults to 1080i via the DVI out, so it sounds like we are on same page here relative to output. It should be awesome, can't wait to watch it!!

Thanks!

Is that correct that the Firewire will handle a camcorder like a MiniDV or a HDV camcorder or only an ipod for music or photos? I thought somewhere on the Samsung site it said not compatible for video, but some have said it works? Has anyone actually used the Firewire and what was connected that worked?

Anyone tried component vs. HDMI cable connection with the SA8300HD-DVR? For me it seems component connection provides better pq, where as the HDMI is more grainy and has more artifacts and action tearing....

got my HDMI cables from monoprice.com

I loaded factory again and went into 1st menu to check my settings for Horiz and Vertical alignments. My screen is tilted to right as I mentioned earlier, but the question is if squared, shouldn't the red square have equal distance around to center the image properly on screen?

Anyone tried component vs. HDMI cable connection with the SA8300HD-DVR? For me it seems component connection provides better pq, where as the HDMI is more grainy and has more artifacts and action tearing....

got my HDMI cables from monoprice.com
I did and thought the other way around. I can try again. What channel should I use to compare on mine?

I got my 10' HDMI to HDMI cable from www.avcable.com

I did and thought the other way around. I can try again. What channel should I use to compare on mine?


I did HD-discovery and standard def. channels. Plus, there is a much longer delay between channel changes with the HDMI with some even going to static screen for second before coming up.

Clorox - does that man you like the idea too? We want Stallionre! Maybe we could promote a Westa vs Stallion debate on DNIE issues in the first sidebar discussion.
Okbyme, thanks for the confidence that you want me.

Funny Guys!!! :) This is a totally dead issue with me. Anyone want to challenge me on it?? HA HA JK. :) I am cool as a cat now. Please no debates, not in this forum. Sidebar maybe?? :D :D

I did HD-discovery and standard def. channels. Plus, there is a much longer delay between channel changes with the HDMI with some even going to static screen for second before coming up.
Check your settings on the 8300. Go to More settings and make sure only 1080i is in enabled, then try HDMI again :)

Actually, there is a version of Terminator 2 that is encoded using Windows Media 9 and can be played on a computer or player that supports WM9.

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/38662/38662.html

I would love to give it a try.

For those that have HTPC and WMV9 you can taste clips of 1080p content here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

I give up :( :confused:

I just can't keep up with this thread. There has been 8-pages posted in the past two days. Its wearing me out..............

:(

Funny Guys!!! :) This is a totally dead issue with me. Anyone want to challenge me on it?? HA HA JK. :) I am cool as a cat now. Please no debates, not in this forum. Sidebar maybe?? :D :D

On your side all the way. Don't let 'em get you down. Are you as cool as a cat because your car's AC is working again?

Check your settings on the 8300. Go to More settings and make sure only 1080i is in enabled, then try HDMI again :)

Other thing I see is on standard def. channels some are not lined up right. There is about 1/2" gap on the top left side of the screen with no broadcast on it. Like the picture isn't lined up. But, on some SD channels and the HD ones I get there isn't a problem.

My 8300 is a Pioneer firmware based one.

Ok, fixed the issue of the dumb 8300 going back to every resolution mode... This happened from it being unplugged when I did the HDMI connection setup.

Other problem is it seems you can either get SD channels in 16:9 and not the HD digital ones stretched too at the sametime?! Like NBC,CBS and ABC. HD-Discovery will be 16:9 with either setting. But, SD and digital ones will not be... :(

options--> standard 4:3 --- Stretched 16:9 This setting will make the digital channels 16:9 ratio but not the SD ones.

or

widescreen 16:9 --- stretched 4:3 This one will make SD ones 16:9 stretched to fill the screen but will not make the digital ones...

either will do HD-discovery.

I've got the HLR5668W and have been very pleased with it so far. Last night, while watching a standard-defintion program with the TV picture set to 4:3 aspect ratio, I started to notice bright, fuzzy, vertical stripes -- about one-pixel wide -- on each side of the picture area.

The bright, fuzzy stripes are there all the time along the boundary between the picture area and the gray stripes on each side of the 4:3 display. It's subtle, but now that I've noticed these stripes, they've become a distraction.

Could this be overscan? (It looks like the picture is trying to creep into the gray bars on each side of the screen.) Has anyone else noticed this issue? Any suggestions on how to get rid of these fuzzies?



I have the 5668 and have the same vertical stripes. I am getting better at ignoring them...doesn't bother me that much unless I concentrate on them. If they could be eliminated that would be great.

By the way I use a directv hr10-250 HD/TIVO connected via HDMI & optical to the avr.

Check your settings on the 8300. Go to More settings and make sure only 1080i is in enabled, then try HDMI again :)

Make a note though that the cable box will then upconvert everything to that resolution. I'd rather have my tv do the converting than the cable box.

There is a delay in switching channels when a new resolution is encountered though.

Cipdad, are you sure you were only referring to your stripes and not some of the people here?

I just called Samsung and they said I'm all set using the 5678 for video, photo editing and animation. Awesome, now where's my set?

Playing with the Contrast on the S97 and the display also had a positive effect so it seems like there is a sweet spot in the contrast and brigthness settings of the S97 and the TV to get the least amount of MB.AkaStp, I think you've given us a valuable tip here. I agree, it makes perfect sense, and I believe it to be true of ALL digital up-converting players. From an engineering point of view, the biggest cause of susceptibility to banding (and macroblocking) in a fully digital TV, is the non-linear gamma curve. To reproduce that curve smoothly with digital steps, requires a very high resolution. These TV's use only 8-bit resolution (MAYBE 10 for gamma), so the digital steps are quite coarse, and that would accentuate any minor banding that may be present in the source material (or macroblocking from a Faroudja player). A banding step in the source or player, that aligns with a gamma curve step will cause a very visible artifact.

So, by playing around just a little with the brightness and/or contrast on the DVD player, it might be possible to find a slightly better match to the TV's gamma curve, resulting in a smoother-looking picture. BUT... the settings and results will vary from set to set and player to player.

Gary

Going over 5 pages already today.... good thing I'm up to date as of now. Need to get away from this forum for a while... its sucking the life and productivity out of me! I feel as though the weight of the world rests on my tv and it can't get here soon enough. Happy hour time!! It could do us all some good!!


Oh: It was my belief through articles and posts here and elsewhere that yes the FireWire (1394, i.link) will accept video and that is how 1080p content was show at trade shows and demonstrations. It is also now all but confirmed that the next gen dvd players will output firewire (see other threads).

AkaStp, I think you've given us a valuable tip here. I agree, it makes perfect sense, and I believe it to be true of ALL digital up-converting players. From an engineering point of view, the biggest cause of susceptibility to banding (and macroblocking) in a fully digital TV, is the non-linear gamma curve. To reproduce that curve smoothly with digital steps, requires a very high resolution. These TV's use only 8-bit resolution (MAYBE 10 for gamma), so the digital steps are quite coarse, and that would accentuate any minor banding that may be present in the source material (or macroblocking from a Faroudja player). A banding step in the source or player, that aligns with a gamma curve step will cause a very visible artifact.

So, by playing around just a little with the brightness and/or contrast on the DVD player, it might be possible to find a slightly better match to the TV's gamma curve, resulting in a smoother-looking picture. BUT... the settings and results will vary from set to set and player to player.

Gary
This might help, I didnt change any settings on my tv other then to Dynamic setting. On my DVD player I have changed the PQ settings and it sure makes a difference in PQ. I set my DVD player to Cinema 1 or 2, they are just about the same. I also changed my SRS to 5.1 on the DVD player for the full sound effects that I like to hear.

I set gamma to 0 in my hlp6163 and do not observe any significant MB'ing with my denon 2910.

Yes, I do believe this is the version :) :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008PC2O/ref=ord_cart_shr/104-8229133-4477514?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

My Oppo defaults to 1080i via the DVI out, so it sounds like we are on same page here relative to output. It should be awesome, can't wait to watch it!!

Thanks!

Please let us know if it works. As far as I know the OPPO only supports Windows Media Audio ... so if it doesn't work, or if you just get audio it may be an explanation.

terminator 2 might come with 2 dvds. the regular 480i version and the windows hd version. i would be really surprised if it would work on any dvd player.

a year ago there was a rumor that samsung was going to be the first manufacturer to release a dvd player that supported the format, but never heard anything more about it.

Other thing I see is on standard def. channels some are not lined up right. There is about 1/2" gap on the top left side of the screen with no broadcast on it. Like the picture isn't lined up. But, on some SD channels and the HD ones I get there isn't a problem.

My 8300 is a Pioneer firmware based one.

Ok, fixed the issue of the dumb 8300 going back to every resolution mode... This happened from it being unplugged when I did the HDMI connection setup.

Other problem is it seems you can either get SD channels in 16:9 and not the HD digital ones stretched too at the sametime?! Like NBC,CBS and ABC. HD-Discovery will be 16:9 with either setting. But, SD and digital ones will not be... :(

options--> standard 4:3 --- Stretched 16:9 This setting will make the digital channels 16:9 ratio but not the SD ones.

or

widescreen 16:9 --- stretched 4:3 This one will make SD ones 16:9 stretched to fill the screen but will not make the digital ones...

either will do HD-discovery.

Same on mine, I don't even bother anymore with stretching. I just leave them in their current aspect ratio. What bums me out is the 720 interlacing artifacts on the ABC, NBC, CBS HD channels :(

I did the same thing. The omni mount shelf comes in black & silver. I am a little worried about all that weight (15-20 Lbs) at the middle top of the screen, though.

Do you have a 6168? If so, how do you get it to fit? I tried it, but the legs just weren't long enough given the slope of the back of the TV.

Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing MB from my S97 when I had my TV (HLM507) gamma set to 0 (now it is back at 2 or 4). I think I'll try setting gamma to 0 over the weekend and see how it looks.

I have the SM gamma set to 0 in my 6168. But it was a very recent change (monday I believe).

I GOT A 6168 FROM TVA. I WAS TOLD TO CALL MICHAEL HAMILTON AT 480-419-3532.hE IS SAID TO BE REALLY GOOD. HOPE THIS HELPS.

Make a note though that the cable box will then upconvert everything to that resolution. I'd rather have my tv do the converting than the cable box.

There is a delay in switching channels when a new resolution is encountered though.

Mike, are you suggesting then to enable all outputs in 8300 to avoid it from doing any converting? The choices are 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i

Thanks

The techs took a look at it and said there was nothing that could be adjusted, the DMD board would have to be replaced. I'll find out next week how long it will take to get a new board but I am leaning towards waiting for parts instead of risking an exchange.I seriously doubt that the DMD board will fix distortion like that (in the lower left corner). There is little chance that the DMD chip has warpage, and NO chance that the DMD driver is at fault (all pixels are displayed). It could possibly be the lens, but I'll bet it's warpage on the mirror behind the screen.

Gary

I've got the HLR5668W and have been very pleased with it so far. Last night, while watching a standard-defintion program with the TV picture set to 4:3 aspect ratio, I started to notice bright, fuzzy, vertical stripes -- about one-pixel wide -- on each side of the picture area.

I don't know if this is the same thing you're talking about, but I've noticed sometimes when watching SD that the very right and left edges of the SD image appear slightly brighter than the rest of it. I initially thought it was just an optical illusion caused by the transition to black, but then it occurred to me that if that were the case, I would see the exact same "illusion" with letterboxed material, etc., which I don't. So it might be a real issue. (I haven't paid enough attention to it until now to know whether it happens on all 4:3 material, or just sometimes--I'll have to check when I get home.)

What source are you using for SD? (I have a Motorola 6412 PVR from Comcast.) I wonder if it has something to do with the upconversion the box is doing. I'll have to go back and see if I get it from my old DirecTiVo, or from DVDs with 4:3 content.

Pincushion Definition (http://winplanet.webopedia.com/TERM/P/pincushion_distortion.html)

Note it states its for CRT's. I am sure that the DLP's don't have the same cause but the effect is still there. Someone earlier mentioned its caused by the extreme expansion of the image from rear projection of a small source.Pincushion on Samsung RPTV's is usually confined to slight inward curvature of vertical lines. The distortion some people are seeing is not related to pincushion.

Gary

I am probably not the first person to get one, but I received my 6768 today and all’s I can say is awesome.

First off; hats off to TVA. I had a great experience and the delivery driver showed up on time and was very helpful.

TV looks great. I am remodeling a house so it won’t be in its permanent home for a month, but even with the half-ass install I did, the picture quality is amazing.

As I said it is in a temporary location right now, I moved my Mitsubishi 52825. The Mitsubishi (which has a nice picture) was unwatchable in the afternoon from this spot because of the glare….not a problem for the Samsung.

I will not be providing a detailed review because I don’t have the setup, but all’s I can say is I am very happy.

I don't know if this is the same thing you're talking about, but I've noticed sometimes when watching SD that the very right and left edges of the SD image appear slightly brighter than the rest of it. I initially thought it was just an optical illusion caused by the transition to black, but then it occurred to me that if that were the case, I would see the exact same "illusion" with letterboxed material, etc., which I don't. So it might be a real issue. (I haven't paid enough attention to it until now to know whether it happens on all 4:3 material, or just sometimes--I'll have to check when I get home.)

What source are you using for SD? (I have a Motorola 6412 PVR from Comcast.) I wonder if it has something to do with the upconversion the box is doing. I'll have to go back and see if I get it from my old DirecTiVo, or from DVDs with 4:3 content.

Yes, it sounds like you're seeing the same thing I'm seeing.

I've got a Comcast CableCard in my HLR5668W and can see the "bright edges" (that's a very good way to describe it) when watching any standard-definition program in 4:3 mode via cable. I also have a ReplayTV unit connected via S-video and see the same bright edges between the picture and the left and right gray bars when watching recorded programs.

The fact that you can also see the "bright edges" on your Samsung makes me believe it's unrelated to the source, but definitely related to SD programs in 4:3 mode. Do you have a HLR5668W? Maybe this issue is confined to this specific model?

I've noticed sometimes when watching SD that the very right and left edges of the SD image appear slightly brighter than the rest of it. I initially thought it was just an optical illusion caused by the transition to black, but then it occurred to me that if that were the case, I would see the exact same "illusion" with letterboxed material, etc., which I don't. So it might be a real issue.No, this is not an issue, its perfectly normal with all of the Samsung sets.

Gary

I do not see pincushioning with my 5668.

I did not say it was pincushioning, it just looked like it could be as there is quite a bit of overscan. With this overscan, it is kind of hard to tell the actual geometry (without a test pattern).

In my case the problem in the lower left corner is so slight (maybe a 1/8") I will probably wait until something more serious happens. I kind of suspected it might be a mirror (mounting issue?). The case is so light and mirrors are usually heavy so that it might be causing the distortion.

Same on mine, I don't even bother anymore with stretching. I just leave them in their current aspect ratio. What bums me out is the 720 interlacing artifacts on the ABC, NBC, CBS HD channels :(

I really don't see the interlacing artifacts...might be specific to your area.

MY 6168W will be here in a week or so. i was wondering:

1. does my radeon 9500 video card able to output 1080p through the vga? can i just select this in the advanced settings?

2. do i need to download any special programs (hydravision) to enable this?


scott

So, it seems that everyone with a 950 is seeing this message when connected through HDMI. Am I right then that there is no way to turn it off (when using only the receiver for DVD audio anyway) ?

Now, what about a 8300 cablebox connected with HDMI - that, I gather from posts, works ?

And finally, let's say you have a receiver with HDMI in/out - and that's connecte to the Sammy. Has anyone tried that ? Do you get the error ?!

Thanks,
Dan

I just tried 1080P with my Radeon 9600. Once I had the right cable, the PC got the info automatically from the TV. I just went into the display menu and set it to 1080P and it works perfectly..

As long as your PC is setup correctly there shouldn't be a problem. People with highend cables had problems and then bought cheap ones that worked better. I don't have my 5678 yet but that is what people here have said.

The fact that you can also see the "bright edges" on your Samsung makes me believe it's unrelated to the source, but definitely related to SD programs in 4:3 mode. Do you have a HLR5668W? Maybe this issue is confined to this specific model?

I have a 6168. Sounds like it may just be a fact of life.

(regarding the "bright edges" of SD material)

No, this is not an issue, its perfectly normal with all of the Samsung sets.

Well, just because it's normal doesn't mean it's not an issue :) If it's normal behavior for the Samsungs, then I would consider it a (small) design flaw in the set--it's not enough to really bug me, but it seems a little sloppy for a high-end TV.

Do other types of HDTVs have this issue? Is it something about DLP, or Samsung's optics?

I just tried 1080P with my Radeon 9600. Once I had the right cable, the PC got the info automatically from the TV. I just went into the display menu and set it to 1080P and it works perfectly..
Aaron,

Will you be trying WM9 samples from the MS site, or the Quicktime 7 for Windows 1080p trailers? http://www.apple.com/quicktime/hdgallery/

I have had my 5678 for a week and have had no problems and absolutely love the PQ. TVA did a great job. I also have the HD950. Just thought I would mention for anyone interested. The Sound and Vision Magazine September issue that just came out this week has a review of the 1080P Mitsubishi WD-52627. They gave it high marks. The magazine also has a direct comparison of the Toshiba SD-5980, The Samsung-HD950 and the Panasonic DVD-S77. The reviewer gave the highest marks to the Panasonic with the only minus being the lack of SACD. The plus on the Sammy 950 was plays DVD-A and SACD. The minus on teh 950 was Mediocre progressive-scan video, Noisy analog audio output and no speaker distance compensation for SACD. Can't say that I necessarily agree but did notice the lack of speaker distance compensation right away since I have over 25 SACD discs.

I just tried 1080P with my Radeon 9600. Once I had the right cable, the PC got the info automatically from the TV. I just went into the display menu and set it to 1080P and it works perfectly..Sorry to ask...I thought we only needed a VGA cable...that is the right cable correct. :)

So, it seems that everyone with a 950 is seeing this message when connected through HDMI. Am I right then that there is no way to turn it off (when using only the receiver for DVD audio anyway) ?

Yes ... that is correct.

Thanks for that correction. I just saw at Bestbuy in LA, that they are getting rid of the 5087 and will show on the floor the 5688 model soon. The 1080p is better looking in PQ than the 720p models.

My 5688 is totally dead. The back literally is all burnt up. I had it hooked to a Monster power distrubtor/surge unit that I paid $1,499.99. The TV went bad not the Monster unit. http://www.monstercable.com/power/lineRefPower.asp

Look at the link. The Monster unit is still good. I have other things plugged into it and it works just fine. TV repair man, said the TV unit is trashed, no reason of mine. I actually like that model, but now dont trust it.
Ouch! All this started with a power outage? Does the $1500 Monster have insurance to cover equipment that the surge protector wasn't able to protect from damage?

Anyone tried component vs. HDMI cable connection with the SA8300HD-DVR? For me it seems component connection provides better pq, where as the HDMI is more grainy and has more artifacts and action tearing....

got my HDMI cables from monoprice.com
I was forced to try both since initially HDMI didn't work on the 8300. The component cables worked fine. The next morning, HDMI started working spontaneously. I tried to compare the signals. The component was a little softer and easier on the eyes. The HDMI was sharper. I wound up disconnecting the component cables to cut down on the spaghetti and am quite happy with the HDMI. No artifacts observed except when looking at text upconverted from SD, where there seems to be a halo around the letters.

Should I immediately call TVAuthority for a replacement, or is this a field service issue? Help, as I am closing in on my 30 days.

Sorry to ask...I thought we only needed a VGA cable...that is the right cable correct. :)

yes, standard VGA cable, the only catch is that on some 'high quality' cables, to make more room in the jacket for the signal cables, they leave out the 2-3 cables that are used to carry DDC information that allows the video card to query the monitors capabilities. this is a 'bad thing'.

on a sidenote, has anyone whose opened their set/seen their set opened for service noted any way to adjust the zoom/focus of the lens? or the mirror alignment? from the sounds of it the sets have a fair amount of overscan out of the box and it'd be nice to know if that was end-user adjustable (so long as you don't mind opening up the set).

yes, standard VGA cable, the only catch is that on some 'high quality' cables, to make more room in the jacket for the signal cables, they leave out the 2-3 cables that are used to carry DDC information that allows the video card to query the monitors capabilities. this is a 'bad thing'.

on a sidenote, has anyone whose opened their set/seen their set opened for service noted any way to adjust the zoom/focus of the lens? or the mirror alignment? from the sounds of it the sets have a fair amount of overscan out of the box and it'd be nice to know if that was end-user adjustable (so long as you don't mind opening up the set).Thanks

You need average or cheap Monitor Cable. I think what people had bought was VGA extension cable? It needs to be male on both ends and cost under $20. That's my understanding.

Courtjstr, I'm thinking that you might get the wrong calibration since it is not a 1080 test? I don't know what the source of the pattern is from but I'm thinking you might get better results with a different pattern?

Should I immediately call TVAuthority for a replacement, or is this a field service issue? Help, as I am closing in on my 30 days.

All photos appear normal.

I did HD-discovery and standard def. channels. Plus, there is a much longer delay between channel changes with the HDMI with some even going to static screen for second before coming up.

Ppowr... I also have the SA8300 with 6168 and tried both compnent and HDMI (3') I experienced the same channel changing issues with the static for a second, but it was only when I had the box set to output multiple resolutions instead of just 1080i. Once I set output to 1080i only, the channels changed very quickly. And I didn't notice any difference in PQ with the SA converting as opposed to the Sammy doing the job. The HDMI PQ appeared to be a slight improvement over component, noticeable especially on the HD channels.

Going over 5 pages already today.... good thing I'm up to date as of now. Need to get away from this forum for a while... its sucking the life and productivity out of me! I feel as though the weight of the world rests on my tv and it can't get here soon enough. Happy hour time!! It could do us all some good!!


Oh: It was my belief through articles and posts here and elsewhere that yes the FireWire (1394, i.link) will accept video and that is how 1080p content was show at trade shows and demonstrations. It is also now all but confirmed that the next gen dvd players will output firewire (see other threads).

Yea really. I left work and now its about 3 pages deep from where I left off.

So does this mean that next gen DVDs will NOT use HDMI and rather use firewire? Or does no one truely know for sure.

Sooooo close. I have my PC hooked up and am receiving a good picture on my set.

I bought the T2 WMV 1080P DVD, and get to the menu. But, the option to play the Theatrical Version ROM is not selectable. I can get to the extras, but not the movie.

Ideas?

It has to download and install the right software, at least that is what mine had to do to play it.

Aaron,

Will you be trying WM9 samples from the MS site, or the Quicktime 7 for Windows 1080p trailers? http://www.apple.com/quicktime/hdgallery/

Only one of my PCs has the horsepower to play the WMV trailers at 1080P and it is my main one. If I get a chance I will try it but I doubt I will be moving the PC anytime soon. I've been looking for a compact PC that I can use for playing those 1080P files but I haven't found one at the right price, and I don't feel like putting one together with such a tight space in the case.

Should I immediately call TVAuthority for a replacement, or is this a field service issue? Help, as I am closing in on my 30 days.

I'm not overly familiar with the test patterns, but it looks to me like the picture isn't perfectly vertically centered (in the second pattern, you can see the 5% line at the top but not at the bottom). This is similar to how my 6168 came out of the box--like your screen, the picture was shifted down slightly, and I could actually see overscan noise at the very top of SD broadcasts.

I fixed it by going into the service menu and changing the vertical position. When you set this, the TV shows two red boxes (similar to the overscan boxes on the pattern you showed), and you can use them to balance the top and the bottom.

You can search this thread for info on how to go into the service menu (be warned that if you change the wrong thing you can screw up your TV). If you don't want to do this, call Samsung and have them send a tech out.

Ouch! All this started with a power outage? Does the $1500 Monster have insurance to cover equipment that the surge protector wasn't able to protect from damage?

The TV tech said that it was not the surge that caused this problem. The $1500.00 monster protector unit that I have is good and did it's job well. :) This was also checked out. The TV is at fault. :mad: The transformer that is inside the TV shorted and caused the Board to blow up. This was do to a faulty soldering job and a bad transformer/Power supply. This is what we can tell so far.
Either way I am getting a brand new TV of my choice and a $200.00 gift certificate for my inconvenience from Vanns.com, COOL. I feel good now. :cool:

Hi to all the already-owners of the 1080p displays (still waiting for mine);
I just purchased the Samsung 950, but after all the bad press on this board I am thinking twice if I should keep it (by the time my 6768 arrives I might not be able to return it anymore).
Is the consensus at this point that the 950 is sub-par for use specifically on the 1080p displays ? Does the HDMI in really display an annoying audio warning every time (I would not play DVD audio through the TV anyway, but the warning must be annoying!?)? And what's the final word about BTB?

Alternatively, has anyone tried the new Denon 1920 ? It looks like a great Player for the money, but I am wondering about it Fli 23x chip; does it exhibit the macroblocking bug on the Samsungs ?!

Any input greatly appreciated :-)

Thanks<
Dan

Hi Doesers.
I myself also purxhased the Samsung H950, but I just received my latest issue of Sound & Vision & in this issue they ran a comaprison/tests on 3 budget 1080i HDMI DVD players.
(1) Samsung 950
(2) Panasonic S77
(3) Toshiba SD 5980

The Samsung & Toshiba players scored very low. The Panasonic scored very high, it did excellent.

Pluses: (1) Superior progressive scan video
(2) Excellent DVD-Audio sound quality
(3) Many user adjustments
(4) Plays most major disc types, including DVD-Ram

Minus: (1) No SACD playback

That's pretty good. I called up VANNS.com & they agreed to refund me my $ on the Samsung 950 & inexchange I ordered the Panasonic through them. It retails for $250, but you can get it for about $214 @ Aamazon.com brand new.

Hope this helps.

Sooooo close. I have my PC hooked up and am receiving a good picture on my set.

I bought the T2 WMV 1080P DVD, and get to the menu. But, the option to play the Theatrical Version ROM is not selectable. I can get to the extras, but not the movie.

Ideas?

Go to http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008PC2O/qid=1124533538/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3972626-0051214?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846 and read the first spotlight (consumer) review; there are some steps to be followed and a code to be input. Hope this works ... off to drill.

Do you have a 6168? If so, how do you get it to fit? I tried it, but the legs just weren't long enough given the slope of the back of the TV.


I have the 5668. All I did was move the legs forward from the "proper" or designated mounting holes. Just use any of the square "ventilation" holes closer to the front of the shelf to attach the legs. I moved mine 4 holes further forward (and closest to the outside) and that tips the speaker ever so slightly downward. Keep in mind that I am a little worried about all that weight (~ 15-20 lbs) being supported by that slender top edge of the tv, but, so far, so good.

Dear Forum Members,

It seems this thread has been going for quite a while. Lately my business partner, Eliab, and I have been on the road performing calibrations in the North East, which has made it very difficult to keep up with the posts going on in this forum. Over the past several weeks I have been able to work on several of the new Samsung DLP displays. Their overall performance is outstanding.

In making such a statement we assess the overall video performance of the display devices that we work on, comparing each parameter to system standards. For example, there are very few display devices on the market that will track five different grayscales to different standards. On top of five separate grayscales the most recent HLR series Samsung displays will accommodate two different video systems – NTSC and HDTV.

Elaboration…

For the past 70 years we have been using a television system known as NTSC, also known as standard definition, this system utilizes standards specifically developed for the capabilities of the technology at the time. Looking back on NTSC, the system is quite amazing; we went from black and white, to color, to digital – all of which were satisfactory. Then came the introduction of HDTV, or the High-Definition television system.

The HDTV system works off of different standards that allow for higher resolutions, more detail, and a wider color gamut. In implementing such a system it is important to make the transition gradual so that older technologies or even recent technologies do not become obsolete. For example, NTSC uses SMPTE C color primaries for its’ color space, while HDTV utilizes SMPTE HD primaries for its’ color space. Why not start out with the larger color space? At the time it was what the developers of the system thought could be achieved, and even then it was quite difficult. This was noticeable in the lag that was seen when the phosphor’s rate of decay was too long. An example of this was the green comet type trail coming from fast motion such as a football player running on the field – many of you may remember this, it was quite annoying. While the standard is SMPTE C, consumers did not experience it until the late 90s. This was due to the difficulty in accurately reproducing SMPTE C, but more importantly the fact that manufacturers feel the need to differentiate their display from everyone else’s to sell product.

HDTV utilizes SMPTE HD color primaries, which allows for a significant amount of color fidelity over conventional SMPTE C; yet we are still not utilizing SMPTE HD in today’s HD programming. As with any big transition, it needs to be gradual. After all it took 70 years to approach NTSC’s true potential, imagine where we will be in just 20 years with HDTV’s built in potential.

But why isn’t HDTV programming produced to SMPTE HD color standards?

In the production community SMPTE C monitors are used to color correct and produce HD content. This happens for several reasons… As mentioned above, anytime we make a transition it has to be a gradual one in order to accommodate the masses. The majority of consumers are using standard definition display devices watching standard definition sources. These displays are assumed to have SMPTE C primaries, where in reality, very few have colors that meet the SMPTE C standards. The result is slightly skewed colorimetry yielding inaccurate color. Keep in mind this is not on all displays, but the majority of them. Another reason is that the majority of HDTVs are used to view standard definition sources such as regular television programming and DVDs. Manufacturers, knowing that HDTVs are being used for both SDTV and HDTV and that there is more SD programming available than HD, engineer display devices to conform as close to SMPTE C color primaries as possible. Unfortunately, not many display technologies have the capability to alter their color primaries to accurately accommodate both color systems. Perhaps one of the major reasons that studios do not color correct to SMPTE HD color primaries is the fact that there aren’t even any professional grade monitors that have SMPTE HD primaries in them! These are on the way and will hit the market soon – we hope ? .

Enter the Samsung DLP

Samsung, with their forward thinking, decided to create the capability to alter the color primaries electronically so that they can accurately reproduce SMPTE C, SMPTE HD, or any other color standards used in the world today. After calibration all one needs to do is switch between two different viewing modes to enjoy either the Standard Definition or the High Definition systems’ color formats. What does this mean? It means that for now the SMPTE C color standard is available for both SD and HD programming. As the High Definition DVD format rolls out the display will be ready to properly display the full color fidelity that the HD system is capable of - this is based on what we are directly hearing from studios that are currently trying to get their movies mastered in the 1080p HD format with HD colorimetry for future release on the High Definition DVD format.

No other display device on the market is capable of this

We mentioned above that the newer Samsung DLPs were capable of tracking five different grayscales. This allows for grayscales to be set for SD D6500K, HD D6500K, and the black and white standard of 5400K. The ability to track an extra grayscale for the black and white standard is nothing new; however, five separate grayscales independent of input and source type is new for the consumer RPTV world.

Other accuracies…

While the colorimetry and grayscale tracking of the Samsung DLPs are impressive, it is not solely what makes a good display. The Samsung has several gamma modes that allow for the gamma to be set accurately. Color decoding was also set accurately, but enough for now.

Enjoy!

David, thank you for posting that interesting information. Please consider writing a follow-up message focusing on your other PQ observations mentioned briefly at the end of your post. I found your post informative and helpful, and I look forward to your further contributions.

Thanks again.

David, thank you for posting that interesting information. Please consider writing a follow-up message focusing on your other PQ observations mentioned briefly at the end of your post. I found your post informative and helpful, and I look forward to your further contributions. David,

Ditto to all of TetsujinWave remarks. Could you also comment on what these displays have looked like "out of the box." Is there a lot of variation between sets as shipped? I know this will be very difficult to conceptualize but how much improvement in overall picture accuracy and PQ have you experienced between the "out of the box" and "calibrated" states. Your comments would also seem to indicate that if we are looking for a calibrationist, we should insure they have experience with the new Samsungs (i.e., would they all tend to know about the extra gray scales, etc.).

Thanks again for the info and am looking forward to more of your informative input.

don,

I think you have to be very careful with selecting a calibrationist. Its like hiring a surgeon, some are just better than others.

don,

I think you have to be very careful with selecting a calibrationist. Its like hiring a surgeon, some are just better than others. Granted... But, as with surgeons, how does one determine which are better than others. Based on my limited exposure to the subject, it seems that word-of-mouth is the best (only?) way to identify the best ones.

I just received the OPPO OPDV971H and have connected it up to my Samsung HLR 61" DLP HDTV (via DVI to HDMI cable). The audio is using the OPPO digital optical out to my Yamaha DSP-A1. The DVD has the factory version of the latest firmware (i.e. version 0624 .vs. 0628 -- the literature that came with the player said this was the factory version of the June 29 release). I changed the audio delay to the max 50msec.

We were watching "Saving Private Ryan" in DTS on 720P and noticed considerable lipsync right away. I downgraded resolution on the OPPO to 480P and the lipsync improved but was still there at times.

Aside from purchasing the Felton (sp?), is there another recommendation anyone has on (virtually) eliminating lipsync? Is this lipsync problem predominantly on certain DVD types (e.g. DTS, fast-action) or is resolution the main factor?

Very much appreciate your help.

David, thank you for posting that interesting information. Please consider writing a follow-up message focusing on your other PQ observations mentioned briefly at the end of your post. I found your post informative and helpful, and I look forward to your further contributions.

Thanks again.
They are coming to Raleigh in October: http://www.avical.com/Tours.htm

I see you are in Durham. I'm down the road in Wake Forest :)

I just received the OPPO OPDV971H and have connected it up to my Samsung HLR 61" DLP HDTV (via DVI to HDMI cable). The audio is using the OPPO digital optical out to my Yamaha DSP-A1. The DVD has the factory version of the latest firmware (i.e. version 0624 .vs. 0628 -- the literature that came with the player said this was the factory version of the June 29 release). I changed the audio delay to the max 50msec.

We were watching "Saving Private Ryan" in DTS on 720P and noticed considerable lipsync right away. I downgraded resolution on the OPPO to 480P and the lipsync improved but was still there at times.

Aside from purchasing the Felton (sp?), is there another recommendation anyone has on (virtually) eliminating lipsync? Is this lipsync problem predominantly on certain DVD types (e.g. DTS, fast-action) or is resolution the main factor?

Very much appreciate your help.
Kenjo, mine is set to 1080 and I found the lip synch issue to vary DVD to DVD and in some cases within the same DVD. I read on their site that stopping and starting the DVD helps, but havent seen this on mine. I played some DVDs that were dead on, and others that were far off. Let us know if you find any ways to improve the situation.

Thanks

I have the 5688 model. Boy these models are confusing, only to me? Anyway, The one at Fry's which is the 5087 has the DNIe on/off like you said. I really beleive that it is not found on the 5688 model that I have, but I would love to check still, but mine is dead. I think that I will scrap this model and trade it in for the 6178 for upstairs. Now the 88 is smoking in the rear. I am so feed up with this set.

This model has DNIe DEMO on/off.

I'll post a more extensive "new user review" on monday, with a separate (and probably excessively detailed) post talking about videogaming, but here's a few quick bites based on 2 days of playing around with my 5078:

Overall, the set looks... *classy*. Clean lines, shiny black bezel, it looks like a high-end piece of equipment. The little 4-bit ditty that plays upon power up or power down reminds me of my halcyon Atari childhood. The remote, on the other hand, is 50 cents worth of grey plastic crap with the massive TV Guide logo laughing at you. I can't get a Harmony remote fast enough to get rid of that thing.

Pincushioning: it's very minor, but it's there. I don't notice it at all unless i'mdisplaying 4:3, but it's very slight

Rainbows: never seen 'em, still dont. I can't even *make* myself see rainbows by doing all the "bad" things. Of course, that's just me.

"The Sandpaper Effect": i think other people call it "sparklies", to me it looks like a fine layer of grit over bright unicolor surfaces (large patches of bright sky, sand dunes, etc). I saw this a *ton* on 720p sets, to the point where it was almost as annoying as the SDE with LCDs. With the new 1080, I barely notice it at all, and it's quite fleeting when it does pop up.

DVDs: oh my goodness, it's gorgeous! I only have a cheapo progressive scan DVD player so the TV is handling the upconversion, but it's doing a darn fine job! The "movie" setting seems to be excellent for DVDs out-of-the-box. If you want something interesting to show other than the usual reference discs, I hearily reccomend some modern anamorphic anime discs like Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex or Samurai Champloo. It's a jaw-dropping experience.

Xbox: The TV does a fantastic job given the limitations of the source material. Some games look stunning, like Dead or Alive 2 Ultimate and Ninja Gaiden. On other games look good, and BIG, but the low-resolution engine and textures become *glaringly* apparent (i'm looking at you, Halo 2) as you enter a terrifying world called Jagopolis. The jaggies vary by game (it's horrendous in Halo 2, distracting in Forza, but not very noticable in Prince of Persia or SSX 3, go figure), but it's not the fault of the TV. Messing with your picture settings definetly helps (I dropped sharpness to almost zero, and actually backed off the contrast a bit as well, increasing brightness a touch to compensate). The other interesting thing is most cutscenes look ATROCIOUS. The video compression and low color-resolution on cutscenes is glaringly apparent. Again, not the fault of the TV, but if you're a gamer, be prepared. A light at the end of the tunnel is Amped 2 (which has a 720p mode): oh my it's *gorgeous* on the set. So I think the next-gen of consoles is going to look glorious on the 68/78s.

Now, as to the dreaded "gaming lag." It's there. Holy cow is it there... in First Person Shooters. You can "adjust" in 10-15 minutes to the point where you can play the game just fine, but your shot accuracy is going to take a pretty big hit, and you can kiss "competitive" play online goodbye. The severity of it varies: I found Halo 2 very difficult to adjust to, but I was able to adjust in Unreal Championship 2 quicker. I think that might be because of differences in framerates and normal controller responsiveness, but YMMV. Now, for the good news, I found the lag is *easily* adjusted to for anything that isn't a FPS (i.e. rather than control the camera & aiming recticle, you control a character or object on the screen). I had no problems in Forza or Project Gotham Racing (even set a new personal lap record 5 minutes in). Prince of Persia and other character-based action games? No problem. Then again, i'm knocking on 30 and my reflexes perhaps aren't what they once were, so you 17-year old Dew-drinkin' whippersnappers who always run circles around me on Xbox Live might notice the lag significantly more than I do.

Should I immediately call TVAuthority for a replacement, or is this a field service issue? Help, as I am closing in on my 30 days.
courtjstr: I am at the same point as you. I have tell tomorrow to decide to return my set and perhaps the responses here may be the tipper in that. My set has about the same overscan as yours, perhaps a bit worse plus very crooked in the geometry plus pincushioning on 4:30 (yes it is pincushioning as the vertical lines are warped about 1/4" on the lower 25% inwards). I assume that you used a DVD like VE to put up the test patterns and did not use a signal generator?

I may not be an expert on TV's and my apologies to all of you who are but here goes. I take exception to many of the comments that were made to his response.

1. If these images were from a DVD and not a signal generator then it does not depend on the test pattern resolution. Regardless of how many lines were on the source, this image is and always will be a 480i line image. So a 1080 image would only show more resolution but it certainly would not change the size of the image. He does not see the entire image area. He is loosing lots of the picture.

2. Asking him to go into the service menu to balance the overscan is exactly what the service guy did with my set. Now I still have the same amount of overscan its just balanced. Look at his images. He is not seeing the whole picture. You will just be trading bottom overscan with top and bottom overscan. So he will start seeing things he did not see before and start missing things he did see on the top. Not acceptable :mad:

3. USCB why do you think this is normal? If this is not a test pattern over a broadcast/generator then what he is showing is lost image area. In an ideal fixed pixel display there should be 0 overscan. I doubt that you are running a LCD display on your PC right now that you cannot see the Start button on Windows. Thats basically what he and I see.

courtjstr's TV and mine are not correct. To imply that he can tweak it by balancing the vertical picture in the SM, change the test pattern, or its normal is plain wrong.

Let the flames and debate start.

Ok, I'm about to order the HLR-5688W (it looks gorgeous at Fry's) but I'm trying to decide my primary HD source, either Comcast or DirecTV, and of course, I want to use HDMI (I think).

The problem with Comcast is I can't get any info from Comcast (in Atlanta) about what their box is. I've researched until my fingers are tired and I believe they offer the SA8000HD, but it doesn't have HDMI.

The problem with DTV is their HR10-250 looks great and says it has HDMI but all I see on the web is "my HDMI isn't working" plus I'll have to get an HD antenna to get the local channels in HD mode.

Any advice on which direction would make me the most happy with my new Sammie? I hate the thought of having this great new TV and not being able to have the best HD source.

Andrew in Atlanta

Just got my replacement from Tweeter. First thing I did is power up into SM to check geometry and it appears DMD is square :)

I noticed the Index delay value is 51 - my last set was 53. I do think I am seeing a bit more macroblocking on HD channels and am wondering if adjusting index delay will help?

Thanks

Update on color banding and Panasonic S97:

I have set the gamma in the 6168 SM to 0 but hadn't tried nemo since then. I took a look at it last night and banding is just about completely gone. You can see it barely in a few scenes but otherwise it looks a million times better than it did when I first got the tv and had gamma at 2 (the tv sm gamma setting).

Ok, I'm about to order the HLR-5688W (it looks gorgeous at Fry's) but I'm trying to decide my primary HD source, either Comcast or DirecTV, and of course, I want to use HDMI (I think).

The problem with Comcast is I can't get any info from Comcast (in Atlanta) about what their box is. I've researched until my fingers are tired and I believe they offer the SA8000HD, but it doesn't have HDMI.

The problem with DTV is their HR10-250 looks great and says it has HDMI but all I see on the web is "my HDMI isn't working" plus I'll have to get an HD antenna to get the local channels in HD mode.

Any advice on which direction would make me the most happy with my new Sammie? I hate the thought of having this great new TV and not being able to have the best HD source.

Andrew in Atlanta

I believe that most people think that cable gives a better PQ than DirecTV, but there may be some features via satellite that some people want (or are not able to get cable service at their location). My Comcast DVR (6412) has DVI out, so I use a DVI-HDMI hybrid cable.

Dear Forum Members,


No other display device on the market is capable of this

So I understand correctly that other dlp's are not as 'good' in terms of accuracy, the Mits or Toshiba? Have you also ISF'ed them? Any comparative PQ evaluations would be extremely valuable.

Just got my replacement from Tweeter. First thing I did is power up into SM to check geometry and it appears DMD is square :)

I noticed the Index delay value is 51 - my last set was 53. I do think I am seeing a bit more macroblocking on HD channels and am wondering if adjusting index delay will help?

Thanks
Just a stupid question. Is your picture set to Movie or another mode? I always run mine on Movie because the other settings produce severe MB. When I had it serviced it defaulted to Standard and I did not notice for a few days since I only looked at DVD's and I complained the whole time how poor a transfer they were etc. until I realized that having it in SM probably changed it to some other setting. Sure enough. Much less MB now.

Just a stupid question. Is your picture set to Movie or another mode? I always run mine on Movie because the other settings produce severe MB. When I had it serviced it defaulted to Standard and I did not notice for a few days since I only looked at DVD's and I complained the whole time how poor a transfer they were etc. until I realized that having it in SM probably changed it to some other setting. Sure enough. Much less MB now.

Hi Chris. It was on Std, then I customized. I am testing different modes, but will try movie.

Thanks

courtjstr: I am at the same point as you. I have tell tomorrow to decide to return my set and perhaps the responses here may be the tipper in that. My set has about the same overscan as yours, perhaps a bit worse plus very crooked in the geometry plus pincushioning on 4:30 (yes it is pincushioning as the vertical lines are warped about 1/4" on the lower 25% inwards). I assume that you used a DVD like VE to put up the test patterns and did not use a signal generator?

I may not be an expert on TV's and my apologies to all of you who are but here goes. I take exception to many of the comments that were made to his response.

1. If these images were from a DVD and not a signal generator then it does not depend on the test pattern resolution. Regardless of how many lines were on the source, this image is and always will be a 480i line image. So a 1080 image would only show more resolution but it certainly would not change the size of the image. He does not see the entire image area. He is loosing lots of the picture.

2. Asking him to go into the service menu to balance the overscan is exactly what the service guy did with my set. Now I still have the same amount of overscan its just balanced. Look at his images. He is not seeing the whole picture. You will just be trading bottom overscan with top and bottom overscan. So he will start seeing things he did not see before and start missing things he did see on the top. Not acceptable :mad:

3. USCB why do you think this is normal? If this is not a test pattern over a broadcast/generator then what he is showing is lost image area. In an ideal fixed pixel display there should be 0 overscan. I doubt that you are running a LCD display on your PC right now that you cannot see the Start button on Windows. Thats basically what he and I see.

courtjstr's TV and mine are not correct. To imply that he can tweak it by balancing the vertical picture in the SM, change the test pattern, or its normal is plain wrong.

Let the flames and debate start.

Went back and looked at the photos one more time ... I agree there is overscan on the bottom of the display. Is this signal being generated through a DVD player or computer, and what input? Brought the same image up on my HLR5668W and there was no overscan. But, initially when I saw the image I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that it was being generated by a computer via VGA and in that case it can be easily adjusted. Sorry for the confusion.

Ok, I'm about to order the HLR-5688W (it looks gorgeous at Fry's) but I'm trying to decide my primary HD source, either Comcast or DirecTV, and of course, I want to use HDMI (I think).

The problem with Comcast is I can't get any info from Comcast (in Atlanta) about what their box is. I've researched until my fingers are tired and I believe they offer the SA8000HD, but it doesn't have HDMI.

The problem with DTV is their HR10-250 looks great and says it has HDMI but all I see on the web is "my HDMI isn't working" plus I'll have to get an HD antenna to get the local channels in HD mode.

Any advice on which direction would make me the most happy with my new Sammie? I hate the thought of having this great new TV and not being able to have the best HD source.

Andrew in Atlanta

There is a local broadcast forum for your city ... you should be able to get some solid answers there.

Update on color banding and Panasonic S97:

I have set the gamma in the 6168 SM to 0 but hadn't tried nemo since then. I took a look at it last night and banding is just about completely gone. You can see it barely in a few scenes but otherwise it looks a million times better than it did when I first got the tv and had gamma at 2 (the tv sm gamma setting).
Is PQ better if I change my set to gamma 0? Why did Samsung set the gamma's to 2? Is the gamma setting for the entire TV (all inputs)?

I have Dish HD, Changing the gamma to 0, will this make a difference in PQ 6178?

When you change to movie setting, does the gamma change also?

Thanks in advance.

Is PQ better if I change my set to gamma 0? Why did Samsung set the gamma's to 2? Is the gamma setting for the entire TV (all inputs)?

I have Dish HD, Changing the gamma to 0, will this make a difference?
Thanks in advance.

I can't answer any of those questions since I'm not you. Best advice is change it and see. But remember when you go into the SM it resets all your tv settings for picture so you have to change them again.

In an ideal fixed pixel display there should be 0 overscan. I doubt that you are running a LCD display on your PC right now that you cannot see the Start button on Windows.
If you are saying that you want a TV with zero overscan then you may be out of luck at this time.

Computer monitors have zero overscan, but as far as I can tell TV sets all have some amount of overscan. Five percent is not unusual. If there are any TV sets with zero overscan I haven't seen or read about them in the past three years.

I can't speak to the HLR sets but I can tell you what overscan is like on our HLP5063.

The set does a 1x1 bit map in Expand mode when it's fed 720p through DVI or HDMI. In that case the overscan is between 1% and 1.5%. I can see about half the task bar, and it's fairly useful.

At the price of a little less sharpness, I have the option to switch to Wide (PC) mode which provides a little underscan. For the small amount of time that I use the Samsung TV for Internet access I leave it in Expand mode.

If I change the mode to Wide (TV) the overscan increases to 3+% and the task bar is gone.

The only time I have ever used Wide (TV) is when the broadcast has bad edges. In fact, that's why TV sets have overscan designed into them in the first place. :)
I've only seen the bad edges when the broadcast material was 4x3 SD. It shows up on some channels, but not all of them.

My image is centered. :cool:

All this may not get to the point that you are making. If so, I apologize. It may explain why some overscan is normal, and almost impossible to avoid.

Good luck.

I can't answer any of those questions since I'm not you. Best advice is change it and see. But remember when you go into the SM it resets all your tv settings for picture so you have to change them again.
Thanks, I will try it, Do you remember how to get into there is it Mute-1-8-2-power? What will reset the PQ settings? Moive, Custom, settings, etc?

I recommend that you do NOT go into the service menu and change anything. You really have to know what you are doing. You can do too much damage otherwise. If you want to learn more about gamma I suggest searching through the threads about the HLPxx63 models.Yes, I will do this too. That is good advice. But I wanted your input too, what do you think? What is your gamma setting? Do you have a link to the xx63 gamma set up?

Way back in the HLPxx63 owners & tweaks threads I remember there was discussion about the fact that Movie mode uses a different gamma curve and color temperature than Standard and Dynamic. That is why you can't reproduce it by changing the picture settings of Standard and Dynamic to match those of Movie mode. So, by choosing Movie mode for the S97 you may be hitting the most appropriate gamma curve in much the same way as changing it in the SM.

Also, if the HLRs are like the earlier models, if you go into the SM and change gamma for the component inputs it will not apply to the HDMI inputs and vice-versa. In other words, analog and digital inputs have their own gamma setting.
Thanks so much, this is exactly what I was looking for. I am using only HDMI inputs to watch my TV, so therefore the gamma is already set for that input, no need to change it, I say to myself. :)

Is PQ better if I change my set to gamma 0?
If you have an ISF calibrator with good Samsung skills do it along with a calibration then you will get better picture quality. I think I've told you that before.

Why did Samsung set the gamma's to 2?
Who knows? Not me.

Is the gamma setting for the entire TV (all inputs)?
It is on earlier models component and digital had different settings, but I don't know about the 1080p HLR sets. Here is a link to some "expert" comments on the 1080p HLR sets that was posted in this thread this morning.

Read this. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6061619&&#post6061619)

I have Dish HD, Changing the gamma to 0, will this make a difference in PQ 6178?
Same as above since it's the same question.

When you change to movie setting, does the gamma change also?
No. Nothing you do with the User Menus changes anything in the Service Menu. Changing things like Standard or Movie mode use different values to create the image. It doesn't change SM values themselves.

I now have HD cable hooked up to my 6168, and HD channels look great. However, I'm getting the same weird one-line-of-static across the top when viewing some SD content that I was getting with some shows recorded on my TiVo. Has anyone else encountered this?


Yes, I am seeing this too on local affiliate ABC Channel 15 (SD) and Channel 715 (HD) occasionally. I have also seen it rarely on ESPN HD. I assume it is a broadcaster or STB issue since it is isolated to these channels.

Yes, I am seeing this too on local affiliate ABC Channel 15 (SD) and Channel 715 (HD) occasionally. I have also seen it rarely on ESPN HD. I assume it is a broadcaster or STB issue since it is isolated to these channels.
I'm sure you are right.

See my post above. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6062734&&#post6062734)

If you are saying that you want a TV with zero overscan then you may be out of luck at this time.

Computer monitors have zero overscan, but as far as I can tell TV sets all have some amount of overscan. Five percent is not unusual. If there are any TV sets with zero overscan I haven't seen or read about them in the past three years.

I can't speak to the HLR sets but I can tell you what overscan is like on our HLP5063.

The set does a 1x1 bit map in Expand mode when it's fed 720p through DVI or HDMI. In that case the overscan is between 1% and 1.5%. I can see about half the task bar, and it's fairly useful.

At the price of a little less sharpness, I have the option to switch to Wide (PC) mode which provides a little underscan. For the small amount of time that I use the Samsung TV for Internet access I leave it in Expand mode.

If I change the mode to Wide (TV) the overscan increases to 3+% and the task bar is gone.

The only time I have ever used Wide (TV) is when the broadcast has bad edges. In fact, that's why TV sets have overscan designed into them in the first place. :)
I've only seen the bad edges when the broadcast material was 4x3 SD. It shows up on some channels, but not all of them.

My image is centered. :cool:

All this may not get to the point that you are making. If so, I apologize. It may explain why some overscan is normal, and almost impossible to avoid.

Good luck.
htwaits: I think I may be confusing you here with my last comment on the windows Start button to UCSB (I was just trying to illustrate a point on the needs of seeing an entire image, not that the source was from the PC via VGA etc) and we also don't exactly know what input courtjstr was using (as caught by UCSB). If it is VGA then yes he can change the source at the PC and get rid of much of the overscan. However if he is using the feed from a DVD player then his TV is severely overscanning and thats not right. On fixed pixel devices you should be able to adjust to near 0 overscan. 1% may be acceptable but in my case I am getting 1" of missing image at the bottom which is more like 4%. The very fact that I can adjust the vertical position to see the material (the service tech was afraid to adjust the image area) tells me that the TV is receiving the entire image.

I am not sure why we cannot expect near 0 overscan on DLPs from a DVD feed. Its sounds like UCSB has none on his 5668.

As far as the pincushioning: I understand this in CRT's but don't buy it in DMDs. At least one person stated that the large expansion of a small image (ie projection TV) is causing this vs the reasons we get pincushion in CRT sets based on the bending of electron flight paths through electric fields etc. In the end of the day I could probably live with it on the sides since I don't watch much 4:3 and when expanded the overscan will get rid of it. On the top though (I have about 1/4" in the middle its a bit distracting.

Would we expect such a image on plasma or LCD? I don't think so. For RPTV's we may be stuck with this if the mirrors are causing it. The rest of the forum folks will have to comment if they see the same on their sets or not. If few do then it points to a flaw in a few of our sets. If everyone sees it then it is either a design flaw or the state of the art in DLP RPTV's and I will have to live with it until some other technology comes about that is better overall. Right now I cannot tell since this is the only set in front of me and my first DLP TV.

They are coming to Raleigh in October: http://www.avical.com/Tours.htm

I see you are in Durham. I'm down the road in Wake Forest :)

While I do live in Durham, I bleed Carolina Blue. ;)

Also, to those I have talked to about this, I have decided not to attend CEDIA this year (new job and other concerns). I have already made plans to return to CES, however--and I'll be there with a bigger memory card and a better camera. If you plan on attending, I highly suggest making plans now. That means right now--you'll be able to stay where you want to, for the most part, as opposed to taking what's left. Don't make the mistake I did last year and end up staying downtown out of necessity (the Fremont Street Experience is OK, I suppose, but I much prefer being near the Strip). I'll never stay downtown again.

Just a bit of an update. My 30 days is up today or tomorrow. I called TVA and spoke to Aaron. He was very supportive and felt the TV should not behave this way. He also indicated another one of his customers had the same issues and that SS swapped the DMD and now the customer feels everything is OK.

I am willing to wait a few weeks to get this resolved. What I don't want is that this is the state of the art of DLP's. If so I will wait until another technology comes about (Plasma, LCD, ...) that gives a great image like the xx?8's but without the geometry issues I have.

CC, what model is yours and country?

I have a different TV (HLM507) so it may not be representative as my TV is a 720p model. I've been using gamma = 0 on my digital input (DVI) used by my S97 because it helps with rainbows (in much the same way that backing down contrast does). I see very little MB with my S97 (sometimes I think I see it but it usually turns out to be artifacts in the source). I've also made a number of other tweaks to the settings for component inputs to improve shadow detail. I suggest you do a search in this forum for gamma.

Edit: Going into your SM will most likely hose all of your customized user settings.

However, to be brutally honest, after the recent fiasco with the DNIe settings, I'm really worried about the consequences of you going into your service menu and the impact it could have on this thread and its members. Sorry, but thats the way I feel. I got involved in that (DNIe) matter and I got attacked by certain people (not necessarily you) for doing so. Maybe its time someone created a new thread to deal with tweaking the HLRxxx8 1080p sets, just like there was one for the HLPxx63 models.
Thanks for the link, this will help me research gamma.

I can assure you that if I change my gamma setting to zero, it will not have any impact to the members on this forum or to the thread itself. I will apply my knownledge in computers and large servers that I work on, for the set up on my TV. The techincal side is just about the same. I will not make it like the DNIe issue. Promise. The seetings will be my own thing. I will research this more. Thanks for your help. :)

htwaits: I think I may be confusing you here with my last comment on the windows Start button to UCSB (I was just trying to illustrate a point on the needs of seeing an entire image, not that the source was from the PC via VGA etc) and we also don't exactly know what input courtjstr was using (as caught by UCSB). If it is VGA then yes he can change the source at the PC and get rid of much of the overscan. However if he is using the feed from a DVD player then his TV is severely overscanning and thats not right. On fixed pixel devices you should be able to adjust to near 0 overscan. 1% may be acceptable but in my case I am getting 1" of missing image at the bottom which is more like 4%. The very fact that I can adjust the vertical position to see the material (the service tech was afraid to adjust the image area) tells me that the TV is receiving the entire image.

I am not sure why we cannot expect near 0 overscan on DLPs from a DVD feed. Its sounds like UCSB has none on his 5668.

As far as the pincushioning: I understand this in CRT's but don't buy it in DMDs. At least one person stated that the large expansion of a small image (ie projection TV) is causing this vs the reasons we get pincushion in CRT sets based on the bending of electron flight paths through electric fields etc. In the end of the day I could probably live with it on the sides since I don't watch much 4:3 and when expanded the overscan will get rid of it. On the top though (I have about 1/4" in the middle its a bit distracting.

Would we expect such a image on plasma or LCD? I don't think so. For RPTV's we may be stuck with this if the mirrors are causing it. The rest of the forum folks will have to comment if they see the same on their sets or not. If few do then it points to a flaw in a few of our sets. If everyone sees it then it is either a design flaw or the state of the art in DLP RPTV's and I will have to live with it until some other technology comes about that is better overall. Right now I cannot tell since this is the only set in front of me and my first DLP TV.

Maybe I need to slow down on writing some of my posts ... when I said that I didn't have any overscan from my DVD player (HDMI input), I'm not sure that I meant 0. I am testing DVD players and each DVD player can delete a certain number of pixels from the top, bottom, or sides of an image. Sometimes this is just a few pixels (<10), sometimes it can be a little more (<20). If you want zero overscan from your DVD player, than you are going to have to do do some serious research and testing (I don't recommend it).

But, the discussion above brings up a good point about the photos of the overscan earlier. If they are from a DVD player, than a second DVD player should be used just to make sure that the DVD player is not defective (or just a cheap piece of junk) before returning the TV. Just imagine returing the TV and getting a new one, plugging the DVD player in and getting the same picture.

CC, what model is yours and country?
Model is a 5668W. Not sure what country and date. Missed how to find that in the threads.

FWIW my serial begins with 3CKY7 and is in the 600's

How do you find build date and location again?

Bill, thanks.

This may sounds silly, but how does everyone deal with it ? Does it blink once and then go away for good ? Does everyone just return the player (but it's not the player's problem is it !?). What about having a HDMI out RECEIVER attached to the HDMI in on the Samsung.
It seems to me this would be huge bug to everyine, yet most users seem okay with it !?

Thx
Dan


Yes ... that is correct.

Maybe I need to slow down on writing some of my posts ... when I said that I didn't have any overscan from my DVD player (HDMI input), I'm not sure that I meant 0. I am testing DVD players and each DVD player can delete a certain number of pixels from the top, bottom, or sides of an image. Sometimes this is just a few pixels (<10), sometimes it can be a little more (<20). If you want zero overscan from your DVD player, than you are going to have to do do some serious research and testing (I don't recommend it).

But, the discussion above brings up a good point about the photos of the overscan earlier. If they are from a DVD player, than a second DVD player should be used just to make sure that the DVD player is not defective (or just a cheap piece of junk) before returning the TV. Just imagine returing the TV and getting a new one, plugging the DVD player in and getting the same picture.
Yes. I have 2 DVD players. One that outputs 480i via component and the other that outputs 1080i via hdmi. Images are the same. And my broadcast TV via the internal tuner has a truncated image. The watermarks on the lower right corner on my PBS secondary DTV stations are cut in half.

In this case we are not talking about a few lines of image. We are talking about severe image clipping. Go back and look at his patterns again. You can clearly see the full circles at the top but the bottom circles are cut off severely.

Chris, I don't know for sure but I thought it was just a simple sticker on the back? Maybe you can get a mirror to see if it looks more like Mexico than Korea if you can't get a good look? Anybody have an idea?

I am not sure why we cannot expect near 0 overscan on DLPs from a DVD feed. Its sounds like UCSB has none on his 5668.
As long as TVs are built to traditional (non-digital transmission) standards my understanding it that the overscan is intentional.

If micro display TVs were built to computer monitor standards there would be trouble from the masses about the crap that would be visible at the edges of the image. I'm not saying they can't or shouldn't, just that they haven't.

Maybe your set exceeds Samsung's allowance for overscan.

As far as the pincushioning: I understand this in CRT's but don't buy it in DMDs.
My understanding is that pincushion is a function of lens design for extremely short throw setups, and that it's not an issue with front projectors. I've read that it can be reduced greatly with lens design but that it's fairly expensive at this time. The 52" HD2 Loewe at $7,000 with Carl Zeiss lenses had as much pincushioning as most other RPTV sets.

Would we expect such a image on plasma or LCD?
No projection -- no pincushioning.

I've seen plenty of overscan on Plasma, LCD flat panels. Also on all the DLP, LCoS, or LCD RPTV sets that I've seen.

Your situation may be an extreme. But I'm talking about seeing overscan that was extensive enough to clip some or all of those damned network logos off the screen.

If everyone sees it then it is either a design flaw or the state of the art in DLP RPTV's and I will have to live with it until some other technology comes about that is better overall.
Everyone never sees the same thing. None of your problems are directly related to the type of micro display chip being used.

Overscan is a design feature needed for television broadcast from day one. Some think it can be eliminated when all broadcasts are digital. That's probably true, but not in my life time. At least not while I can see the screen. You should have a good shot at it though. :cool:

Goodluck.

Yes, I am seeing this too on local affiliate ABC Channel 15 (SD) and Channel 715 (HD) occasionally. I have also seen it rarely on ESPN HD. I assume it is a broadcaster or STB issue since it is isolated to these channels.

I was able to get rid of it by adjusting the vertical position using the service menu--PM me if you want the info so I don't spam the thread with it again.

Bill, thanks.

This may sounds silly, but how does everyone deal with it ? Does it blink once and then go away for good ? Does everyone just return the player (but it's not the player's problem is it !?). What about having a HDMI out RECEIVER attached to the HDMI in on the Samsung.
It seems to me this would be huge bug to everyine, yet most users seem okay with it !?

Thx
Dan

The message is generated by the player and only flashes for a second or so. It only blinks once at the beginning of movie (may sometimes blink, at layer change or during other operations). It is the players fault.

If you can set the HDMI audio out of the receiver to PCM (what the TV is expecting) everything may work correctly.

On the overscan issue, on my 6168, using the DVE test pattern, I'm seeing about 3% overscan on the top and bottom and 2.5% overscan on the left and right (it's slightly off center in both directions, but I'm not going to bother fiddling with the SM for a few pixels right now given that the calibrator is coming on Monday). Is this fairly normal for overscan?

I don't see any warping at all--to my eye, the lines all look straight.

Is this fairly normal for overscan?
I think that's about normal. The HLPxx63 sets can get it down to ~1.5% with 720p into DVI/HDMI in Expand mode. Wide (PC) scales to enough underscan to have a small boarder around the image but things get a little fuzzy.

I think it may take overscan in the ~5% range to interfere with our beloved network/channel logos.

I think that's about normal. The HLPxx63 sets can get it down to ~1.5% with 720p into DVI/HDMI in Expand mode. Wide (PC) scales to enough underscan to have a small boarder around the image but things get a little fuzzy.

I think it may take overscan in the ~5% range to interfere with our beloved network/channel logos.
Wow. I am just floored by these discussions of exceptable overscan. Yes on CRT based TV's the poorer the quality the more overscan you expect. You basically have to do what you can to the geometry and then bring the overscan up to the point that you clip any distortion etc from the edges.

For fixed pixel displays I cannot understand this, especially when fed a digital signal from a DVD player over HDMI. Why, other than the lens issues mentioned above, should we expect overscan? And again I would buy the overscan if I saw funky geometry at the sides. The rules would be the same. Reduce overscan to 0 and then move the image around and adjust the overscan to just eliminate the distorted edges. Perhaps this is one of the big features the ISF calibrators do for us?

I just don't buy the fact that my TV has 1" over overscan to eliminate edge faults. If that is the case then I will look for another TV type or manufacture.

FWIW the SS regional service manager is pondering if my set should be replaced or repaired.

You can fight overscan with a scaler. My iscanHD+ has a negative overscan(underscan) function. So you can get 0% percent overscan for any source. The only problem is the iscanHD+ has only one DVI input. I plan on trading it in for a VP30 which has 4 HDMI inputs along with the SDI, SVideo, component and composite inputs. The underscan feature works great except for my screen tilt of 1/4" so I have to leave it at 1.5% over scan to avoid seeing black on the bottom left of the image. The replacement 6168 arrives on Tuesday, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping everything will be OK with that set.

I got my replacement 5678 today. On the new set, the geometry is correct, but I am noticing a definite difference in PQ, especially on HD channels. It is as if there is less clarity/depth than previous set. Also, seeing shimmering and macroblocking, which was not noticeable before. I have messed with Picture settings a ton of times, but it is not helping. I noticed the firmware on this set is earlier than the previous one. The PQ on the first set was stunning, and I am bumming now that I fixed one problem, but gained another. I do have a tech coming Monday (thinking he is fixing DMD on other set) and am hoping that he has some tools to calibrate this.

I am wondering if the firmware version has something to do with it? Does anybody know if the board can be flashed, or does it have to be replaced with newer firmware?

Thanks!

I just don't buy the fact that my TV has 1" over overscan to eliminate edge faults. If that is the case then I will look for another TV type or manufacture.
Overscan is based on the original 1930s analog broadcast standards. Since then all TVs have some built-in overscan -- yours included.

Your set may have more than is acceptable -- I don't know.

My understanding is that at this time the type of TV technology or manufacturer doesn't count with this issue.

If you want zero overscan I think your best bet is a large computer monitor not a TV.

Check it out. You may find a set with less overscan than the one you have. Mine, under the conditions I stated, has 1.5% which is the best that I've experienced. :cool:

You can fight overscan with a scaler.

Sure. The better the scaler the better the image. Samsungs Wide (PC) mode is scaling down, but not without some blurring.

My take on this is the built in scaler. The only input that bypasses the scaler is VGA. That was why I questioned the test pattern used. A 1080 test pattern from the VGA port had better be perfect. There are several people here alone with this problem and I think it would be very helpful to list model and country of origin. I'd like to know what "part" is the issue here since I really don't see how it can be anything but the scaler.

I do have a tech coming Monday (thinking he is fixing DMD on other set) and am hoping that he has some tools to calibrate this.
It seems like it's very rare for a tech to learn calibration. They are component swappers mostly.

I got my replacement 5678 today. On the new set, the geometry is correct, but I am noticing a definite difference in PQ, especially on HD channels. It is as if there is less clarity/depth than previous set. Also, seeing shimmering and macroblocking, which was not noticeable before. I have messed with Picture settings a ton of times, but it is not helping. I noticed the firmware on this set is earlier than the previous one. The PQ on the first set was stunning, and I am bumming now that I fixed one problem, but gained another. I do have a tech coming Monday (thinking he is fixing DMD on other set) and am hoping that he has some tools to calibrate this.

I am wondering if the firmware version has something to do with it? Does anybody know if the board can be flashed, or does it have to be replaced with newer firmware?

Thanks!

Let lamp burn-in for a few hours and take another look.

A couple of questions to those that have received their units...how long after you confirmed the order did you get shipping information? how long did it take to recieve the TV?
I confirmed early yesterday morning, was told it would ship yesterday, but haven't received tracking information. Called today (sat) and was told "it may not have shipped" and then "it takes a couple of days to enter the tracking information" -which is valid?

Ok, I'm about to order the HLR-5688W (it looks gorgeous at Fry's) but I'm trying to decide my primary HD source, either Comcast or DirecTV, and of course, I want to use HDMI (I think).

The problem with Comcast is I can't get any info from Comcast (in Atlanta) about what their box is. I've researched until my fingers are tired and I believe they offer the SA8000HD, but it doesn't have HDMI.

The problem with DTV is their HR10-250 looks great and says it has HDMI but all I see on the web is "my HDMI isn't working" plus I'll have to get an HD antenna to get the local channels in HD mode.

Any advice on which direction would make me the most happy with my new Sammie? I hate the thought of having this great new TV and not being able to have the best HD source.

Andrew in Atlanta

I have the 5688 with Comcast HD DVR. Not sure of the model number, just got it yesterday but it is hooked via HDMI and looks fantastic!

Overscan is based on the original 1930s analog broadcast standards. Since then all TVs have some built-in overscan -- yours included.

Your set may have more than is acceptable -- I don't know.

My understanding is that at this time the type of TV technology or manufacturer doesn't count with this issue.

If you want zero overscan I think your best bet is a large computer monitor not a TV.

Check it out. You may find a set with less overscan than the one you have. Mine, under the conditions I stated, has 1.5% which is the best that I've experienced. :cool:
OK. Help me out here. On my computer displays, either CRT or LCD, there are features for image location (vertical and horizontal) as well as image size (stretching the image vertically or horizontally). Using these 4 controls I can move my image around and shove any part of the image off the screen that I don't want or even make the image much less than the screen size (I then have to accept the geometry issues). None the less I at least have a chance to see the entire image and discard (overscan) those portions I don't want on the edges.

You cannot adjust these features in the SM on DLP TV's? I know the content is there because if I choose to just move the image up, then I shove overscan from the bottom to the top, or trade a bit on each edge.

Ok, I'm about to order the HLR-5688W (it looks gorgeous at Fry's) but I'm trying to decide my primary HD source, either Comcast or DirecTV, and of course, I want to use HDMI (I think).

The problem with Comcast is I can't get any info from Comcast (in Atlanta) about what their box is. I've researched until my fingers are tired and I believe they offer the SA8000HD, but it doesn't have HDMI.

The problem with DTV is their HR10-250 looks great and says it has HDMI but all I see on the web is "my HDMI isn't working" plus I'll have to get an HD antenna to get the local channels in HD mode.

Any advice on which direction would make me the most happy with my new Sammie? I hate the thought of having this great new TV and not being able to have the best HD source.

Andrew in Atlanta

It would be sad if DTV is the choice. It's expensive and has very little to offer. I am in middle TN and can't get broadcast HD. I hope Comcast will get there service here soon

FYI, I found newegg has monitor, male to male cables very cheap although you have to pay around $5 shipping. They have the standard 6' and they have 10', 50', and 100'. I think they have a restocking fee and I don't know if they will work but to have one solid cable without an extension should be better. I'd imagine most have computers more than 6' away. This might solve some problems, I said some!

You cannot adjust these features in the SM on DLP TV's?
As you know one can adjust the image location in the SM.

You can use computer software to produce an image without overscan. That would be the same as having an dedicated external video processor.

People who have been able to do it for earlier models (HLM, HLN, HLP) using their computers have posted in this forum.

You can also check the Home Theater Computers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26) forum.

Here is an example of what was involved in the "olden days" of the HLN sets.

HTPC and No Overscan (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2872388&&#post2872388)

There should be people working on the same problem for the HLR 1080p sets at this very moment. You might start a thread in this forum or the Home Theater Computers forum to attract their attention.

As I recall, the people most interested in doing it wanted to use their TV for a significant amount of computer related work.

I've been trying to sort through everyone's observations of lip-sync. Has anyone done an evaluation of various input signals and input jacks?. i.e. is there any difference when feeding the set a 480i signal, or 480p, or 720p or 1080i? Or between HDMI or component inputs? It sure seems to me that the least amount of audio lag will occur when the TV has to the least amount of processing. I would think that would be the case when feeding a 1080i signal over HDMI. Then the set only has to do de-interlacing, with no A/D conversion.

Anyone?

Thanks.

As you know one can adjust the image location in the SM.

You can use computer software to produce an image without overscan. That would be the same as having an dedicated external video processor.

People who have been able to do it for earlier models (HLM, HLN, HLP) using their computers have posted in this forum.

You can also check the Home Theater Computers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26) forum.

Here is an example of what was involved in the "olden days" of the HLN sets.

HTPC and No Overscan (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2872388&&#post2872388)

There should be people working on the same problem for the HLR 1080p sets at this very moment. You might start a thread in this forum or the Home Theater Computers forum to attract their attention.

As I recall, the people most interested in doing it wanted to use their TV for a significant amount of computer related work.
htwaits: Thanks for the info. Again I am not trying to use my PC as a source. I just want my regular DVDs and the OTA broadcasts not to have clipped images due to overscan. I am willing to live with a few pixels to get rid of some edge distortion but not an inch of good image.

I will leave this debate at the present. I will see what SS does and then contact a ISF calibrator later if I keep the set. Perhaps someone who does ISF calibration on 1080 SS DLPs will see this note and respond if I am dreaming or have a chance here.

Here's an update regarding my successes & failure viewing the WMV 1080P version of T2.

First, I own a computer consulting firm, so I'm not a noob in that area ;)

That being said, I had nothing but trouble getting this to work.

My findings:

First, I had to roll-back my version of Windows Media Player from 10 to 9. This can only be done in the Add-Remove Programs menu in the control panel. You must check the box at the top that says something about including updates.

I know that InterActual, the program you must install to view the movie, has a "patch" for WMV 10, but it didn't work.

You also must manually set WMV to Region 1.

Next, I had to disable "AnyDVD", the program that strips the copy protection from DVD's so you can back them up.

After all this, you need to connect once to the Internet to get a validation code. Now I'm staring to lose patience with this freaking procedure. Then, if you want to play the movie without being connected, you have to back up this file.

Finally, I got the movie to play on my computer screen, so now it's time to connect to my Sammy.

I connected via 2 cables joined together, and this might be partly to blame for the next problem.

I set my video card to 1920x1080 32 bit color. The windows desktop looked acceptable, if not great.

Then I started the movie...and it looked great; until I switched to full-screen. At this size there was horrible streaking in the picture, making it unwatchable.

If I were to postulate on the reason for this, I would first blame it on the video card, next the cable. Even though my video card meets the minimum requirements of 128mb, I don't believe it has the horsepower to drive over 2 million pixels. That's why at a smaller picture size everything looked super.

In conclusion, I would not recommend you try this at home unless your video card is high-end, and has 256mb RAM.

If anyone wants to donate a good video card, I'll report my findings :D

Rabid, what's your specs and what video card do you have? MS has a page that lists the needed specs and there is another page that will check your PC to see if it meets the specs in case you didn't build yours or have any idea what the specs are. I think there are about two or three people lately that were able to connect their computer without a problem, maybe see what they have for cards? The other thing is if you were able to get a desktop on the Sammy then I would think it might be something other than the card?

Here is the link for WMVHD. It lists the system specs and at the bottom of the page it will check your computer to confirm if you have the minimum specs. It has some other info and sample footage.
http://www.wmvhd.com/

Here is the link for WMVHD. It lists the system specs and at the bottom of the page it will check your computer to confirm if you have the minimum specs. It has some other info and sample footage.
http://www.wmvhd.com/

Thanks bcvp.

I had already checked the specs, and I'm well within them, except for the video card which is @ the minimum.

As stated, I did connect successfully until I asked the video card to drive over 2 million pixels in fast motion. This will take a card with some cajones.

I have a 6600GT, which is 128MB. What card do you have?

OK. Help me out here. On my computer displays, either CRT or LCD, there are features for image location (vertical and horizontal) as well as image size (stretching the image vertically or horizontally). Using these 4 controls I can move my image around and shove any part of the image off the screen that I don't want or even make the image much less than the screen size (I then have to accept the geometry issues). None the less I at least have a chance to see the entire image and discard (overscan) those portions I don't want on the edges.

Really? I was under the impression that image size and position controls for LCD monitors only work when using the VGA or DVI-A input and are disabled when using DVI-D. At least that's what I've seen and it made sense to me because I thought those adjustments took place in the analog-digital conversion. I didn't think most LCD monitors had enough processing power to do digital image scaling.

You cannot adjust these features in the SM on DLP TV's? I know the content is there because if I choose to just move the image up, then I shove overscan from the bottom to the top, or trade a bit on each edge.

You can adjust horizontal and vertical position in the SM. You can adjust image size (and position) when using the VGA input in Wide PC mode. I'm guessing that these VGA adjustments are also done during the analog-digital conversion. You cannot adjust the size when using HDMI and when using the built-in tuner (with the exception of a flaky 1080i overscan setting in the SM that *increases* overscan). I haven't tried component.

I can sympathize with your frustration but given that most TVs seem to be designed to have overscan, I'm curious as to the kind of capability that you are expecting. Since this is a projection TV, wouldn't you need to be able to mechanically adjust the optics to be able to change image size and maintain 1:1 pixel mapping? Or would you be happy with a built-in digital scaler that reduces the picture size but also loses the 1:1 mapping?

I can sympathize with your frustration but given that most TVs seem to be designed to have overscan, I'm curious as to the kind of capability that you are expecting. Since this is a projection TV, wouldn't you need to be able to mechanically adjust the optics to be able to change image size and maintain 1:1 pixel mapping? Or would you be happy with a built-in digital scaler that reduces the picture size but also loses the 1:1 mapping?
Interesting. So it sounds like the only way that the image size could be changed is by moving the mirrors (ie changing the projection) without changing the scaling. That makes sense. I am surprised that they don't have that in the sets then. Again I would think you would only want overscan to take place to remove the distortion at the edges.

So then I should expect about 1/2" of overscan all the way around then?

Thanks bcvp.

I had already checked the specs, and I'm well within them, except for the video card which is @ the minimum.

As stated, I did connect successfully until I asked the video card to drive over 2 million pixels in fast motion. This will take a card with some cajones.
Rabid - will you also be trying out QT7 per my post from yesterday? I'm curious of you have any problems compared to what happened using WMP.

courtjstr: I am at the same point as you. I have tell tomorrow to decide to return my set and perhaps the responses here may be the tipper in that. My set has about the same overscan as yours, perhaps a bit worse plus very crooked in the geometry plus pincushioning on 4:30 (yes it is pincushioning as the vertical lines are warped about 1/4" on the lower 25% inwards). I assume that you used a DVD like VE to put up the test patterns and did not use a signal generator?

I may not be an expert on TV's and my apologies to all of you who are but here goes. I take exception to many of the comments that were made to his response.

1. If these images were from a DVD and not a signal generator then it does not depend on the test pattern resolution. Regardless of how many lines were on the source, this image is and always will be a 480i line image. So a 1080 image would only show more resolution but it certainly would not change the size of the image. He does not see the entire image area. He is loosing lots of the picture.

2. Asking him to go into the service menu to balance the overscan is exactly what the service guy did with my set. Now I still have the same amount of overscan its just balanced. Look at his images. He is not seeing the whole picture. You will just be trading bottom overscan with top and bottom overscan. So he will start seeing things he did not see before and start missing things he did see on the top. Not acceptable :mad:

3. USCB why do you think this is normal? If this is not a test pattern over a broadcast/generator then what he is showing is lost image area. In an ideal fixed pixel display there should be 0 overscan. I doubt that you are running a LCD display on your PC right now that you cannot see the Start button on Windows. Thats basically what he and I see.

courtjstr's TV and mine are not correct. To imply that he can tweak it by balancing the vertical picture in the SM, change the test pattern, or its normal is plain wrong.

Let the flames and debate start.

I appreciate your empathy for me, and am have started communication with TV Authority. I too thought that a Service menu fix would only re-arrange my loss, or worse, cause distortion such as digital keystone correction would.

Rabid, I downloaded a bunch of those samples at the link I mentioned and they played fine on my PC. I would think if it plays on the PC then it should work on the Sammy? I'm hoping mine is in on Monday although I'll believe it when I see it. Let us know since I think soon there will be more people with PC's hooked up to a Sammy than DVD players.