That is because you are watching a good quality HD feed. The reports
of blocking, etc. are coming from highly compressed SD sattelite feeds...

Go Steelers!

Definitely true. I watched the same steelers game on Time Warner here in Austin. Absolutely stunning!

That is because you are watching a good quality HD feed. The reports
of blocking, etc. are coming from highly compressed SD sattelite feeds...

Go Steelers!


I do agree. I was watching same game over cox cable with 8300/hdmi to a new 5678 and it is quite excellent. Have you watched any NFL preseason on CBS? My experience with CBS HD/NFL is unsatisfactory. The image quality was bad. Is this just the way it is?

REDSKINS!! (though they struggle)

I do agree. I was watching same game over cox cable with 8300/hdmi to a new 5678 and it is quite excellent. Have you watched any NFL preseason on CBS? My experience with CBS HD/NFL is unsatisfactory. The image quality was bad. Is this just the way it is?

REDSKINS!! (though they struggle)

No, but I watched the Pittsburgh vs. Philadephia pre-game on ESPN HD
and it was AMAZING. I don't have an antennae since I am too far away
from the transmittors..

Go Steelers!

broken hdmi port??????? PLEASE HELP!!1

new owner of a 6168W hooked up oppo dvd player on hdmi 2 and dish dvr 942 hdmi 1.

played some clips on the oppo looked great ,moved stuff around replugged in oppo and now no input detected on hdmi 2. in fact there is no hdmi 2 to select.

tried plugging in a different cable nothing.
tried plugging in my computer (dvi) nothing.
tried plugging in my dvr nothing
tried different dvd, different resolutions nothing.
dvd works over rca and component.

hdmi 1 works fine for dvr and computer.

but oppo does not work on hdmi 1.

am i missing something, some menu in oppo to activate dvi?


is there some rule about plugging in hdmi/dvi when both things are off?

if i have a dead port do i need a replecement or can they swap out the board?
any help would be appreciated.

1080i will be deinterlaced ON THE SET. The 3:2 pulldown capability is needed on THE SET for this input...

Yup. I can't see how this could be anything besides a mistake in the manual, but you never know.

Does anyone have an upscaling DVD player that outputs 1080i connected to their Samsung?

Sit close to your TV and watch the opening scene from Star Trek Insurrection. The scene should be a little fuzzy due to scaling from 480i to 1080i in the DVD player. But the edges should be straight in every frame and not stair stepping.

If you have a fast camera, you can take some photos up close. If 3:2 pulldown isn't working, the edges should look jaggy.

broken hdmi port??????? PLEASE HELP!!1

new owner of a 6168W hooked up oppo dvd player on hdmi 2 and dish dvr 942 hdmi 1.

played some clips on the oppo looked great ,moved stuff around replugged in oppo and now no input detected on hdmi 2. in fact there is no hdmi 2 to select.

tried plugging in a different cable nothing.
tried plugging in my computer (dvi) nothing.
tried plugging in my dvr nothing
tried different dvd, different resolutions nothing.
dvd works over rca and component.

hdmi 1 works fine for dvr and computer.

but oppo does not work on hdmi 1.

am i missing something, some menu in oppo to activate dvi?


is there some rule about plugging in hdmi/dvi when both things are off?

if i have a dead port do i need a replecement or can they swap out the board?
any help would be appreciated.

Unplug the TV and let it set for a minute (also unplug OPPO and reset it) and plug it back in and retry OPPO. This time turn the OPPO on first. You can only select an HDMI input if the device connected to it is ON. Check that your cable if firmly seated, especially on the HDMI end.

Turn equipment off when you are changing cables in the future to avoid problems.

The OPPO should work fine on DVI straight out of the box.

Yup. I can't see how this could be anything besides a mistake in the manual, but you never know.

Does anyone have an upscaling DVD player that outputs 1080i connected to their Samsung?

Sit close to your TV and watch the opening scene from Star Trek Insurrection. The scene should be a little fuzzy due to scaling from 480i to 1080i in the DVD player. But the edges should be straight in every frame and not stair stepping.

If you have a fast camera, you can take some photos up close. If 3:2 pulldown isn't working, the edges should look jaggy.

It is not a mistake in the manual. When you have a 1080i source connected the option to go into "Film mode" (3:2 pull down) is not enabled. I emailed Samsung about this and so far I have not received a reply. The only response I have gotten is that it has been reassigned to a product specialist. It is entirely possible the built in deinterlacer for 1080i source automatically will detect if 3:2 pulldown will be necessary since it will see the flags in the content. However, it would be nice to receive some type of confirmation either way. I just can't imagine they have overlooked something so basic.

Yup. I can't see how this could be anything besides a mistake in the manual, but you never know.

Does anyone have an upscaling DVD player that outputs 1080i connected to their Samsung?

Sit close to your TV and watch the opening scene from Star Trek Insurrection. The scene should be a little fuzzy due to scaling from 480i to 1080i in the DVD player. But the edges should be straight in every frame and not stair stepping.

If you have a fast camera, you can take some photos up close. If 3:2 pulldown isn't working, the edges should look jaggy.
The edges looked smooth to me. I didn't notice any stair stepping.

If you have a fast camera, you can take some photos up close. If 3:2 pulldown isn't working, the edges should look jaggy.

Guys, let's not kid ourselves.
This tv has a "film mode" for a reason.
The tv has 'greyed' out film mode for 1080i for a reason.
The manual states film mode works only in 480i for a reason.

Don't you think if it can automatically 'detect' it needs the 3:2 pulldown in 1080i, that Samsung would have implemented this detection in 480i? Come on...

I do agree. I was watching same game over cox cable with 8300/hdmi to a new 5678 and it is quite excellent. Have you watched any NFL preseason on CBS? My experience with CBS HD/NFL is unsatisfactory. The image quality was bad. Is this just the way it is?

REDSKINS!! (though they struggle)
At least the 49ers and Raiders are being done locally. The game I saw last week was in widescreen and every time they moved the picture broke up. Terrible. Last night I noticed that they went to regular width cameras. They were also not high def but SDT. So I suspect that we are not getting the national 'Monday Night Football' quality that you have come to expect.

I am starting to get more extreme lip synch on a number of DVD's now that I have time to watch more of them. While I have always had the <100ms delays (those I can live with because they are very hard for me to detect visually) what I am seeing here is much worse. The delays are on the order of 500 ms to 1 second or worse. They generally happen at the begining of a movie and sometimes calm down over the course of 20 minutes or go on for the entire movie.

I have tried various techniques to eliminate them including running in Movie Mode (I always run there), stopping the DVD and restarting. Cycling through the sources very slowly (I wait for the signal message to appear on each source), shutting down the DVD player, the TV or both. Nothing seems to affect it.

This does not happen on all discs. In fact I can take a disk thats having the problems, put in a different movie like the 5th Element (with undetectable lip synch) and then put the other disk back in and the lip synch is there.

Last night we were watching the Pirates of the Caribbean and the lip synch was off by about 1 second. (this was with my SS HD950 via HDMI at 1080i). I put the disk in my old Sony DVPS7000 at 480i via component and no lip sync problem. Put the disk back into the 950 and it was back. I just ran the movie and it took over 15 minutes for the lip synch to go away. One thing I should have done is to go back to the begining after it synched and test if it still did that. I will try that tonight. Also I have had other disks that did this on the Sony too.

BTW other disks that have had severe LS problems on them were:
Children Of Dune (Widescreen / 2003)
Alexander
Battle of Brittian
A track on some concert video featuring a gal playing the piano that a friend brought over - cannot remember the name. In that case it was just one track

The Pirates of the Caribbean has a few areas in the movie with sync problems in the actual movie ... I know you are talking about a much bigger problem than the one in the movie, but be careful not to select those areas for your primary tests.

You folks know this thread exists:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=543331

I have mine set around 110ms for my HD-TiVos. I f I see a lip sync problem I will go check it out on my other HD-TiVo going to an HD LCD set. The lip sync will be there also. 110ms solves it for me. when I do see delay it is from the source.
On my SDI RP82 going through an iscanHD+ I don't see any lip sync problems. That delay is set to 130ms I think.

Okay, with my 6168 on it's way, I need to pick up a DVD player. After reading a bit about it, I think I'm going to pick up an Oppo. What I need to know is if I should get the optional DVI-HDMI cable or just stick with the DVI-DVI. What is the difference? My last TV just has component, so I am not familiar with HDMI or DVD.

You will need a DVI to HDMI since the 6168 has two HDMI inputs. It doesn't have any DVI inputs.

Okay, with my 6168 on it's way, I need to pick up a DVD player. After reading a bit about it, I think I'm going to pick up an Oppo. What I need to know is if I should get the optional DVI-HDMI cable or just stick with the DVI-DVI. What is the difference? My last TV just has component, so I am not familiar with HDMI or DVD.Your new TV has two HDMI ports which are backward compatible with video from a DVI source.

If you have a DVD player or a STB with a DVI output then you need a HDMI cable with a DVI connector on one end.

If you buy the OPPO, which I think has DVI output, then you will also need the HDMI cable with a DVI connector on one end.

Has anyone successfully used the Digital Out on their HLRxxx8W? I am getting an overload error when connecting this output to the input of my Denon receiver. The Denon manual says that it cannot handle digital signals with 96kHz sampling rate. Does the Samsung Digital Output exceed the 96kHz when Dolby Digital output is used?

Has anyone successfully used the Digital Out on their HLRxxx8W? I am getting an overload error when connecting this output to the input of my Denon receiver. The Denon manual says that it cannot handle digital signals with 96kHz sampling rate. Does the Samsung Digital Output exceed the 96kHz when Dolby Digital output is used?

I'm using the digital out on the Samsung and it works fine ... you might need to go into audio setup and check the digital output settings.

You are probably sitting too close to the screen.
I usually sit between 10-12 ft from my 6168 which I think is reasonable. On the other hand I do think I have a very good eyesight even though I have never got it tested ;) , maybe thats why I notice the screen 'texture' more.

Excellent review!
Thanks! :D

I also wonder if strong room lighting can enhance this effect, where the screen is actually picking up light from the room.
I usually watch my TV in subdued light.

I am attaching some pics to illustrate the "pixelling" that I see on certain channels.

Rehan

I'm using the digital out on the Samsung and it works fine ... you might need to go into audio setup and check the digital output settings.

Thanks for the reply. On the HLR5078W, I have tried Dolby Digital and PCM. I do not see any other settings within the HLR. On the Receiver, when I select Digital, the Overload / Error light comes on. There is an LFE (Low Frequency Effect) -10db to 0 db for the Digital Input, but this does not have any affect when I have adjusted this to -10 from 0 db. Other than that there is no other adjustment in the Receiver for the Digital Input. I have connected the Panasonic DVD S77 Digital Optical to the Receiver without any issues and with the same cable. Could the Samsung Digital output be generating digital signals with 96KHz which the receiver manual has indicated that it cannot accept? I am trying to rule out that this is a problem with the HLR5078W.

Woo hoo! :D
----------I finally hooked up my 5668. I don't have digital cable yet, but standard cable actually looks ok. The first thing I did was plug in an XBox through component. I set the XBox to output 720p or 1080i and started to play Halo2. Although the picture looks very nice, there is a very SMALL bit of lag, after about 5 minutes I got used to the lag. I don't really notice the lag unless I think about it. I just found out GAME mode, so I'll try that out later.
----------I have a few questions: 1. I am going to buy an OPPO, and since the 5668 doesn't come with a DVI input, does the OPPO come with a DVI to HDMI cable, or am I going to have to buy this separetly? 2. Is it really necessary to buy a high end UPS for about $300 - $400 or is it ok just to buy a $50 one so all it does it cool off the bulb in a power outage? 3. Sony has a HD DVR for about $700, but there are other HD DVRs out there for about $500 or less (I'm not talking about regular DVRs, HD DVRs), is there any difference betweent the quality of these? 4.For the HD DVR, do I need to hook it up to an HD tuner, or do they come with tuners built in, could you please tell me whether the RCA DVR10 has a tuner built in or not?
----------Regarding the HD DVR, I am going to get Digital Cable with the HD package. Also, the amount of harddrive space is not that important to me, I just want to be able to store at least 4 hours of HD material.

TIA

The Pirates of the Caribbean has a few areas in the movie with sync problems in the actual movie ... I know you are talking about a much bigger problem than the one in the movie, but be careful not to select those areas for your primary tests.
Right. I am talking about the first 20 minutes or so. Not just a few frames or scenes. And the lip synch is severe.

Just a note to see if anyone else seems to detect this too. At least AkaStp seems to be noticing the same.

I don't pay much attention to the broadcast synch as I think the TV can deal a bit with that and most of the time it is the source.


Anyway the lip synch is not constant so no fixed delay via the DVD player or AVR would help. After a while the TV does seem to catch up in many cases and if I had a delay built into the audio stream then my picture would start to lead the sound.

Jambava -- If you order the Oppo from Oppo, you can select the DVI --> HDMI cable as part of the package but pay shipping; if you order from, say, Amazon, you do not get to pick your cable (you get DVI-to-DVI) but get shipping free. SurfAudio (http://www.surfaudiovideo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=OPDV971H) gives you a cable choice AND shipping cheaper than Oppo's.
Now, if you're sufficiently confused, I've achieved my objective. ;)

Right. I am talking about the first 20 minutes or so. Not just a few frames or scenes. And the lip synch is severe.

Just a note to see if anyone else seems to detect this too. At least AkaStp seems to be noticing the same.

I don't pay much attention to the broadcast synch as I think the TV can deal a bit with that and most of the time it is the source.


Anyway the lip synch is not constant so no fixed delay via the DVD player or AVR would help. After a while the TV does seem to catch up in many cases and if I had a delay built into the audio stream then my picture would start to lead the sound.

Have you tried connecting the 950 to another TV to see if it is the player.

----------I have a few questions: 1. I am going to buy an OPPO, and since the 5668 doesn't come with a DVI input, does the OPPO come with a DVI to HDMI cable, or am I going to have to buy this separetly?
You can order the player with a DVI-HDMI cable (included in the $199) from: www.oppodigital.com


2. Is it really necessary to buy a high end UPS for about $300 - $400 or is it ok just to buy a $50 one so all it does it cool off the bulb in a power outage?
There is an excellent thread on Power Conditioning and UPS ... worth reading. If you live in an area with good power, you might want to put your money into a surge suppressor and line conditioner and hold off on UPS until you can get the right unit. On the other hand ... the replacement lamp for these sets cost $373 + shipping and maybe tax.

3. Sony has a HD DVR for about $700, but there are other HD DVRs out there for about $500 or less (I'm not talking about regular DVRs, HD DVRs), is there any difference betweent the quality of these? 4.For the HD DVR, do I need to hook it up to an HD tuner, or do they come with tuners built in, could you please tell me whether the RCA DVR10 has a tuner built in or not?
----------Regarding the HD DVR, I am going to get Digital Cable with the HD package. Also, the amount of harddrive space is not that important to me, I just want to be able to store at least 4 hours of HD material.
Check with your cable provider, Comcast here is the SF bay area offers a nice Motorola 6412 HD DVR for $9.95 / month. It is a DUAL tuner model. What a deal!!!

Have you tried connecting the 950 to another TV to see if it is the player.
Not yet. My neighbor has a 73" Mits CRT that I could try probably. I will have to wait awhile though as he sold his AVR. I do still get it on the Sony frequenly too so it may be a combination of issues. Otherwise I have nothing else but an analog CRT TV.

You will need a DVI to HDMI since the 6168 has two HDMI inputs. It doesn't have any DVI inputs.
...
If you buy the OPPO, which I think has DVI output, then you will also need the HDMI cable with a DVI connector on one end.

Thanks guys. I ordered it with the DVI->HDMI cable. I can't wait until everything gets here.

While I wait for my replacement 5688 to arrive in say about 3weeks, I am using my present 5688 TV with XBOX hooked up using the XBOX HD AV Component cables w/ Optical cable for 5.1 surround sound.

Since I don't have my ONKYO TXNR1000 (in the shop being serviced/looked @) I took the alternative route for surround sound.

I have the SONY 5.1 Wireless Headphones hooked up, running the Optical cable from the XBOX to the Sony wireless receiver.

I've been playing Splinter Cell:Chaos Theory for about 4 days now.
No lag here @ all. Headphones working solidly, making the gaming experience alot better than using just the TV's built in speakers.

Haven't noticed any Audio lag/Lip sync issuesplaying games yet, but have expereinced it during Tv programs , but just very slightly. When I have gotten lip sync, I simply turn from the CH, then turn back, seems to work. This is attributed to the programing, not the TV itself.

Seems some people here like to point @ the TV for this problem.

I have Halo2, will test it out & see if I expereince any gaming lag, as others have.

Go Cowboys!

5078 intermediate dimensions?

Can any 5078 owner provide the following dimensions?

1. At some point behind the screen, your tv is only 41 inches wide. how many inches back from the front of your screen is that point?

2. At some point behind the screen, your tv is only 25 inches tall. how many inches back from the front of your screen is that point?

The reason for the questions is that we want to recess a 5078 as much as we can into the built-in alcove in our wall, and we are trying to figure out far out into the room the tv will protrude. Our hole in the wall is perfect for a HLR4677W but with all the rave reviews on the 1080p's we want to try and get the 5078.

Thanks.

I'm waiting for my 6168W to be delivered hopefully next week. In the meantime I am shopping for cables so I have everything I need when it gets here. I want to buy the appropriate VGA (PC) cable to hook up a HTPC to the HDTV. I am looking at this cable:

25 Ft SVGA Super VGA M/M Monitor Cable w/ ferrites (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&cs_id=1020105&p_id=277&seq=1&format=2&style=)

I just want to make sure that the VGA (PC) input on the 6168W is in fact a female plug that will require a male connector on the cable. Samsung's specifications only list the connection as "PC in (D-Sub 15-pin)" and does not distinguish whether it is male or female. Can someone confirm this for me please?


Thanks for any replies!! :)


Also, I plan on buying this cable to hook up my (DirecTv) Samsung SIR-TS160 High Definition Receiver's DVI-D input to a HDMI input on the 6168W:

Certified HDMI DVI Cable 28AWG - 6ft w/Ferrite Cores (Gold Plated) (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023101&p_id=2404&seq=1&format=2&style=)

I'm seeing much the same thing with poorer quality HD channels like Discovery HD from DirecTV. That is the "blocking" that I've referred to earlier here and eslsewhere.

Are you saying that you consider Discovery HD Theatre from DirecTv to be a poor quality HD signal??????

My gosh, here I thought that channel was considered to be among the best of the best of HD signals by which to gauge your HDTV's performance by. What would you consider to be a high quality HD signal then?

My gosh, here I thought that channel was considered to be among the best of the best of HD signals by which to gauge your HDTV's performance by.It is but DirecTV does heavy compression if what many subscribers report is true. I don't know how consistent that compression is so maybe they let up a little for Discovery HD Theatre. We get it from Comcast cable and it's very good at times and not so good other times.

Bridgeboy -- I got the same cable but in the 15ft length, which I hope will be long enough. Using the pic from the manual, a male cable end is what you need.

It is but DirecTV does heavy compression if what many subscribers report is true. I don't know how consistent that compression is so maybe they let up a little for Discovery HD Theatre. We get it from Comcast cable and it's very good at times and not so good other times.

See here for bitrates that D* allows for various channels. They've gotten progressively worse over time.


http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html

I am having an issue with my HLR-6168W and I am curious if anyone is having the same problem I am.

Imagine you are sitting and watching the screen and you split the screen into six equal vertical section. The leftmost section of the screen is lighter than the rest of the screen. I do not notice this most of the time, but I just finished watching Sin City to see how the blacks would look and it is distracting.

Has anyone had this problem? Is there a way to fix it myself?

Bridgeboy -- I got the same cable but in the 15ft length, which I hope will be long enough. Using the pic from the manual, a male cable end is what you need.

Ok, thanks! :)

Yeah, I considered the 15' length but then decided the extra 10' would be nice to have. That way I won't have to worry about routing the cable behind the couch, under a rug, or whatever may seem like the best thing to do at the time. I figure with a 61" TV that a 15' cable will take up 5' just getting back behind the TV, then it leaves only 10' to get to where I have the computer. 25' will give a little more flexibility.

Everything I have read from owners so far has indicated that the VGA (PC) connection is the way to go for computer signals. However, as cheap as these cables are from monoprice.com I’m considering buying another, longer (25’?) DVI-HDMI cable just to experiment with from the video card on the PC.

Hmmmm......

Well, I finally got my 5668. Before turning it on, I was already WOW'd by it's size. I don't have Digital Cable yet (coming this week), so I am not ready to post a review. I do have a few questions, some of which were probably already answered (I apologize for that), but this forum is to large for good search results.

I am very much a newbie to this whole HD world, so please bare with me.

My setup right now is a analog cable to set. Sammy DVD-850 connected via HDMI to HDMI to set and Digital Coax to AVR. Shuttle PC connected via VGA to set and Optical to AVR

Questions:
1. I am noticing some lip sync w/ DVD player. I'm looking for the name and site for the audio delay box previously mentioned. (Fulston maybe)

2. My DVD player has the options of playing in various modes (480i, 720p, 1080i, etc.). What should I choose? Will the 5668 upconvert all signals to 1080p, correct?

3. Should I use PCM or Bitstream for Audio from the DVD player.

4. Is there an easy way to swap between PIP using the sets remote?

5. Is there a setting that I can select where the set will display in the size (16:9, 4:3, etc) being broadcast. Is this something that is only available in HD Cable?

The one thing that I have noticed is that I have a little screen slant (from right to left). The interesting thing is that it is only on the bottom, not the top. Using a test pattern, it looks like only the bottom has the slant. It's only noticeable when a ticker is on the screen. I'm not sure if this warrants a replacement because everything else seems to be fine (so far). I would hate to get one with a straight screen and PQ problems.

Once again, thanks for all the information. I apologize for my ignorance. I am learning as I go. Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
-dreamr

Question?

Is it normal for DLPs to take a little while to get to full brightness?

My 5668 takes about 10-20 seconds after the picture appears to fully brighten. In other words, the picture looks kind of dark and then it slowly brightens up.

See here for bitrates that D* allows for various channels. They've gotten progressively worse over time.
Thanks for the information.

Is it normal for DLPs to take a little while to get to full brightness?Yes.

My 5668 takes about 10-20 seconds after the picture appears to fully brighten. In other words, the picture looks kind of dark and then it slowly brightens up.That's normal.

Questions:
1. I am noticing some lip sync w/ DVD player. I'm looking for the name and site for the audio delay box previously mentioned. (Fulston maybe)

2. My DVD player has the options of playing in various modes (480i, 720p, 1080i, etc.). What should I choose? Will the 5668 upconvert all signals to 1080p, correct?

3. Should I use PCM or Bitstream for Audio from the DVD player.

4. Is there an easy way to swap between PIP using the sets remote?

5. Is there a setting that I can select where the set will display in the size (16:9, 4:3, etc) being broadcast. Is this something that is only available in HD Cable?

The one thing that I have noticed is that I have a little screen slant (from right to left). The interesting thing is that it is only on the bottom, not the top. Using a test pattern, it looks like only the bottom has the slant. It's only noticeable when a ticker is on the screen. I'm not sure if this warrants a replacement because everything else seems to be fine (so far). I would hate to get one with a straight screen and PQ problems.

Once again, thanks for all the information. I apologize for my ignorance. I am learning as I go. Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
-dreamr


I believe I'm able to answer the first 2 questions, based only on what I've read here. I look forward to hearing answers on the other questions.

1. http://www.felston.com/

2. Experiment. But most seem to think that outputting 1080i makes for the best picture.

Good luck!

2. My DVD player has the options of playing in various modes (480i, 720p, 1080i, etc.). What should I choose? Will the 5668 upconvert all signals to 1080p, correct?Yes it will convert every input to 1080p. I would start with 1080i and if you are curious you can do the others too. 720p probably be avoided because it would cause extra processing. I'm assuming you are going to connect your DVD player to one of your HDMI ports.

3. Should I use PCM or Bitstream for Audio from the DVD player.I think PCM is two channel stereo and Bitstream is 5.1 surround.

5. Is there a setting that I can select where the set will display in the size (16:9, 4:3, etc) being broadcast. Is this something that is only available in HD Cable?You will need to get a reply from a "68" or '78" owner. With last years model I have the TV set to Expand mode and I'm inputting Comcast cable at 720p using the HDMI port. I'm using my HTPC to play DVD's and it's outputting 720p to the DVI port on my set. You have two HDMI ports which will work the same way with the right cables.

This setup gives me the correct aspect ratio for any input. Wide screen DVD movies have black bars top and bottom. Old 4x3 DVD movies have black bars on each side. All the analog TV channels have black bars on each side too. The digital channels fill the screen when they broadcast HD and the same channels put black bars into the image if they are broadcasting SD 4x3 material.

I never have to change my TV.

I would hate to get one with a straight screen and PQ problems.That has happened. Samsung or your dealer will probably replace the set but I wouldn't change it unless it's enough to distract you.

Good luck.

has anyone had trouble with the hdmi ports?

i initially had both ports working fine --> moved stuff around -->now port 2 shows no signal for dvd, dvr, computer.
port 1 is really touchy. you think with such sensitive ports you would give more room or have a clip in system to make sure it seeds right.

would buying better cables make a difference or am i going to have to get a replacement set?

has anyone had trouble with the hdmi ports?

i initially had both ports working fine --> moved stuff around -->now port 2 shows no signal for dvd, dvr, computer.
port 1 is really touchy. you think with such sensitive ports you would give more room or have a clip in system to make sure it seeds right.

would buying better cables make a difference or am i going to have to get a replacement set?Yes there have been some reports of HDMI port problems with the new 1080p sets.

Here are some things to check.

1. Don't change cables with power on either device.

2. With your TV and your DVD player off pull the plug on both of them for a few minutes.

3. Connect your DVD player to the HDMI port. For a tight fit be sure to tighten the two screws on the connectors at both ends.

4. Plug them back in and turn on the TV first and see if the TV sees the DVD player. If it does then turn on the DVD player and you are in business.

5. If it doesn't work do the power off again for a few minute and try turning on the DVD player before the TV.

If none of that works you need a new digital board. It's like changing a card in a PC so a repair shouldn't cause trouble with the rest of the set. If you have the option to exchange the set then do what ever you feel best about.

Good luck.

WOW
-You probably already knew this, but with PIP, you can hook two xboxs up and play them at the same time.
-I put component 1 on GAME mode, and even though it is a little pixelated, there is no lag. With a component connection, you do actually see and hear so many things you cant in the three pin connection.
-I know I should really get a $300 UPS or something, but I'm just going to get a $75 UPS so it will just power the tv's fan when there's a power outage. I like to live dangerously :cool: .
-Will it make a difference if I just buy the HD DVR online? What benefits do I get by paying monthly for the HD DVR?

BTW, when you guys got the tv out of the box, did you ever end up with the tv being horizontal at any point (like tiping the box over and sliding it out)? That might have been the cause of some of the problems. Not trying to be stupid, but I didn't notice the clamps on the box until about a second before I was going to tip it over. I almost tipped the tv horizontaly :( .

If anyone is still up - check it out - its on right now - outstanding PQ!

At 12-13' away from the new HLR5078 is the better picture I see (relative to a 3-year old Samsung 720p DLP) due to the increased resolution (1080p vs 720p) or the higher contrast ratio and other overall improvements in blacks, whites and colors?
At 12-13' is it possible for the human eye to resolve 1080p over 720p and see any difference?


I somewhat doubt that at 12-13' viewing distance, with normal vision, you'll be able to see the difference in 1080p over 720p on a 50" set. On a 70" set, I think you would. On a 60" set, verdict is still out.

As to the other components that constitutes better picture quality, I think that all those makes for a better picture. What also needs to be considered is that a 3 year set, unless recently calibrated, has drifted from ideal settings.

At 12-13' away from the new HLR5078 is the better picture I see (relative to a 3-year old Samsung 720p DLP) due to the increased resolution (1080p vs 720p) or the higher contrast ratio and other overall improvements in blacks, whites and colors?
At 12-13' is it possible for the human eye to resolve 1080p over 720p and see any difference?

I don't think the increased resolution of a 50" set can be observed at a distance of 12 to 13 ft. I think you would need to be at 7 to 8 ft to see the benefit.

I am having an issue with my HLR-6168W and I am curious if anyone is having the same problem I am.

Imagine you are sitting and watching the screen and you split the screen into six equal vertical section. The leftmost section of the screen is lighter than the rest of the screen. I do not notice this most of the time, but I just finished watching Sin City to see how the blacks would look and it is distracting.

Has anyone had this problem? Is there a way to fix it myself?

I don't know if it will fix the problem, but it will only take a minute to try. Take your lamp out and carefully reinstall it. Don't touch the lamp or reflector surface when handling. Good luck.

I'm having similar problems that vary by DVD. For example, last night, Stargate and The River Wild had only slight lip synch (which 100ms delay on my S97 was able to correct) but Coupling had severe lip synch which 100ms delay on my S97 was nowhere near enough to correct. Also, on my HR10-250, there was considerable lip synch problem with The Sahwshank Redemption on HDNet Movies and a concert on Discovery-HD but only very slight on HDNet, HBO-HD and Showtime-HD. The only way to correct on my HR10-250 would be an external delay , though I don't know if 100ms would be enough.


Page 136 of the hr10-250 hd tivo manual has a few suggestions to (possibly) correct audio & video out of sync.

The quality of Discovery HD Theater from DirecTV seems to have diminished recently and has problems including blocking during motion and complex images, lip synch and flicker. It used to be one of the better reference HD channels. The best is still HDNet.

HDNET is actually given less bitrate than DiscoveryHD.
See http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html

I don't think the increased resolution of a 50" set can be observed at a distance of 12 to 13 ft. I think you would need to be at 7 to 8 ft to see the benefit.

Sure you can see a difference. I can see SDE on my 50 inch GWIII from 15 ft at times. You're likely to see more difference closer up, though.

Has anybody seen a situation where it appears the video is ahead of the audio? If so, delaying audio would make it worse.

I watched The Aviator last night. Annoying lip sync problem. Sometimes close to sync, most of time way off. I adjusted Oppo to put in 40ms delay, didn't help much. But, I could swear I have seen issue where the audio is actually lagging behind, so delaying only makes it worse.

Does anybody know if Felston will allow negative value?

Thanks!

HDNET is actually given less bitrate than DiscoveryHD.
See http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html


Did anybody check out the image quality link at the top of this website. Seems to support the claims that PQ is very source dependent.

I thought I noticed Discovery HD sometimes not being as awesome as others.

Does anybody know if Felston will allow negative value?

Thanks!


Are you asking if the Felston can produce the sound before its actually transmitted? Don't think so.

The problem is multipart. Some of it is content authoring and some of it is that the electornics in the TV can't keep up with the audio. It would seem that the delays that are TV induced are correctable with "faster processing". I think this is one of those things that your TV either does or doesn't do.

Has anybody seen a situation where it appears the video is ahead of the audio? If so, delaying audio would make it worse.

I watched The Aviator last night. Annoying lip sync problem. Sometimes close to sync, most of time way off. I adjusted Oppo to put in 40ms delay, didn't help much. But, I could swear I have seen issue where the audio is actually lagging behind, so delaying only makes it worse.

Does anybody know if Felston will allow negative value?

Thanks!


The ASO menu on the 6168b has this too. I guess it anticipates what the audio bitstream will look like and plays it ahead of receiving it.

HDNET is actually given less bitrate than DiscoveryHD.
See http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html

Ok product specialist listen up! Please make a device that would monitor and report bitrate going to our sets so we can determine if we are having issues with our sets or if its just low bitrate.

If this could be incorporated into the sets that would be even better. Perhaps a small number on screen that could be toggled on and off.

From Page 1 of the HLR Owners' Thread: In fact, Samsung has lead us to believe that the internal components on the 68 series, 78 series, and the 88 series pedestal model are all based on the same technology.

Has there been any update or confirmation of this statement (and that it's still just a matter cosmetic preferences)?

Are you asking if the Felston can produce the sound before its actually transmitted? Don't think so.


:D :D :D

I watched Ray the other day and thought it was amazing.

If anyone is still up - check it out - its on right now - outstanding PQ!

My HK AVR 330 is one year too old to have the audio delay feature. Othewise I've been really happy with the AVR. Thus I'd appreciate it if several owners of the Felston audio delay unit could respond to these questions. Thanks in advance.

1. Did the Felston fully resolve your problem with lip sync?

2. Do you constantly have to adjust the Felston to achieve #1 above?

3. Is it possible to adjust the Felston via a Harmony remote?

4. Would you purchase the Felston again?

5. Would you recommend that I purchase the Felston, or sell my AVR on Ebay and purchase the newer model with the audio delay? This combination would likely be about the same cost outlay, but more hassle, and it would likely be harder to do constant adjustments if #2 is true. Right?

BTW, I don't yet have a HLR to even know how disruptive the audio delay will be, but hopefully it will be shipped this week. My old 32" Proscan seems to suffer delay on a regular basis, however, so perhaps its my cable service.

Thanks in advance!

Want to see something really scary? see attached (if I did it correctly)

I hope New Orleans survives. I don't think the dikes are designed to handle a Category 5 Hurricane!

I've noticed on some DVDs (for example: Stargate) that the lip synch gets progressively worse the further you get into the DVD.

In addition to my Panny S97 and Sony NC80V, I'm trying a Samsung 850 and it also exhibits lip synch problems on the same DVDs, in the same places and to the same extent as the other two. Also, the Samsung 850 will not pass audio thru HDMI and gives the HDMI audio not supported message on the screen.
Note: I do not get lip synch problems with any DVDs at all on my HLM507 with these DVD players, not have I had lip synch problems with my HR10-250 on my HLM507, so I'm sure the HLR5078 is the problem here.

We are definitely not the only ones to be reporting problems with lip synch with DVD players on these new TVs, the problem seems to be quite widespread.
The problem is that everyone gets a small amount of constant lip synch. Its about 60-80 ms. People have either decided they cannot here it or they are not bothered or they have used a delay feature in their audio stream to eliminate it.

What I am referring to here and that most have not been talking about, is a erratic, or perhaps initial, severe (ie 500 ms or more) lip synch. This cannot be overcome by any or most delay features in the audio stream. Plus it is erratic and if you could adjust it you would have to be constantly fiddling with it during playback. Note the lip sync does not suddenly seem to go away but generally "improves" during the corse of playback over a 10-20 minute period. Accasionaly it is only on one chapter/scene and sometimes throughout the entire movie.

So we have to assume that something is different here than the 'normal' lip synch. It could be a flaw in a few of our sets and/or DVD players or perhaps something in a few disks that overcomes the TV's design/capabilities. This is why I posted the movies I did so others could compare those on their sets also to see if it is widespread or just a few of our sets.

I also am not paying attention to broadcast based lip synch since we have no way to repeat that. Also broadcast is known for many lip synch issues. Even still it could be a part of the broadcast system too, its just we have no way to really evaluate that without two or more sets running side by side in real-time (note both would have to be digital TV based sets)

Has anybody seen a situation where it appears the video is ahead of the audio? If so, delaying audio would make it worse.

I watched The Aviator last night. Annoying lip sync problem. Sometimes close to sync, most of time way off. I adjusted Oppo to put in 40ms delay, didn't help much. But, I could swear I have seen issue where the audio is actually lagging behind, so delaying only makes it worse.

Does anybody know if Felston will allow negative value?

Thanks!
If the picture is ahead of the audio then its the source. AVR's take no time at all to process the sound (at least in human terms). These SS digital TV's take at least ~80 ms to process the video. You could also have some delay set in either your AVR and/or your DVD player that you may not be aware of, but if so it would not show up on just the Aviator. Try the same scene on one of your friends HT setups.

I hope New Orleans survives. I don't think the dikes are designed to handle a Category 5 Hurricane!

You're right. Their best option is to *get out* and hopefully most if not all will.
Pray for those on the Gulf Coast right now.

I received my 6768 Thursday. It is connected to a SA8300 STB via HDMI with an audio coax digital connection to my AVR, a VSX-24TX Pioneer Elite. The SA8300 is set to output 1080i. It is also connected to my DVD player, a Pioneer DV-525 via component with an optical connection to the AVR. The DVD player outputs 480i. Other than one problem I had with the HDMI cable which I resolved, the set plays flawlessly. My wife justs looks at the PQ in awe. Details, so far:

1. HDMI cable problem. We were watching a program on the SA8300 when all of a sudden the picture and sound died. (I first used the speakers in the TV to test the connection before connecting to the AVR for 5.1.) The message on the screen was "Weak or No Signal." After some analysis, it turned out to be the cable. All I had to do was lift up on one end of the cable and all was fine. I switched the ends of the cable to localize the problem to just one end of the cable. I solved the problem by putting a small wedge of plastic under the end of the HDMI cable to hold it level.

2. SD PQ is fine.

3. HD PQ is awesome. I watched CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS. Unbelievable! And football...WOW. It's like being there.

4. DVD is likewise awesome. The opening sequence to Star Wars (the very first 1977 movie) is amazing in 5.1 channel sound.

5. Lip sync: There is no lip sync problem at all. I watched the Sunday morning news programs with lots of talking. Ditto on DVDs, although I've only watched Star Wars, Star Trek: Undiscovered Country, and Shrek 2. All sound is going through my AVR, with the 6768 on mute.

I plan to spend all day today watching and enjoying. This is a truly amazing Home Theater experience.

If none of that works you need a new digital board. It's like changing a card in a PC so a repair shouldn't cause trouble with the rest of the set. If you have the option to exchange the set then do what ever you feel best about.

Good luck.

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THEY HAVE THESE BOARDS IN STOCK TO SWAP OUT?

I THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE TO REPLACE THE SET AS THEY DON'T HAVE ANY BOARDS ON ACCOUNT OF THE SETS BEING SO NEW......

Thanks for your review ILTWTV. I'm glad to hear that those who have received the 6768 have been quite happy. It's especially comforting given some concerns prior to their appearance as to whether the brightness would be acceptable. From your review and others I've read, that doesn't seem to be a concern at all.

Your statement about lack of lip sync problems (so far) has me rethinking my plan to proactively seek an audio delay device. Some folks have reported intermittent problems, others severe, and some no problems. I guess it pays to wait and see for myself. Why spend $$ that isn't certain to be needed!
Update us if you start noticing the problem. Again, thanks... and enjoy!

I hope New Orleans survives. I don't think the dikes are designed to handle a Category 5 Hurricane!

Very scary situation--at noon, the mayor announced that they were, for practical purposes, giving up on the dikes. I haven't had CNN on in an hour or so, but everyone is being "advised" to get out of the city and the low-lying suburbs.

Thanks for your review ILTWTV. I'm glad to hear that those who have received the 6768 have been quite happy. It's especially comforting given some concerns prior to their appearance as to whether the brightness would be acceptable. From your review and others I've read, that doesn't seem to be a concern at all.

Your statement about lack of lip sync problems (so far) has me rethinking my plan to proactively seek an audio delay device. Some folks have reported intermittent problems, others severe, and some no problems. I guess it pays to wait and see for myself. Why spend $$ that isn't certain to be needed!
Update us if you start noticing the problem. Again, thanks... and enjoy!

I'm likewise very happy with my 5078. After resolving a problem with a bad coax cable which very strangely had the effect of blanking out seven of the nine retransmitted local HDTV stations in the cable box (SA 8300 HD/DVR), I've been entirely happy. Unlike most, I'm routing both video and audio through my pre-pro, and have set the audio delay on the pre-pro to 73 ms, which has taken care of problems through the STB (component 1080i) and DVD (DVI scaled up to 1080i).

The Pirates of the Caribbean has a few areas in the movie with sync problems in the actual movie ... I know you are talking about a much bigger problem than the one in the movie, but be careful not to select those areas for your primary tests.

I pulled Pirates of the Caribbean last night and tested on the Sony 975, and it did seem to have a longer lip sync delay than other movies. If you want to really challenge these sets weak points in PQ, try Master and Commander.

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THEY HAVE THESE BOARDS IN STOCK TO SWAP OUT?

I THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE TO REPLACE THE SET AS THEY DON'T HAVE ANY BOARDS ON ACCOUNT OF THE SETS BEING SO NEW......
Don't know now but they did not at first. The repair guy is coming next week to do something and it better be to put in a new something :)

Mike in Virginia

Can you help me with this?

1. At some point behind the screen, your tv is only 41 inches wide. how many inches back from the front of your screen is that point?

2. At some point behind the screen, your tv is only 25 inches tall. how many inches back from the front of your screen is that point?


Thanks.

I pulled Pirates of the Caribbean last night and tested on the Sony 975, and it did seem to have a longer lip sync delay than other movies. If you want to really challenge these sets weak points in PQ, try Master and Commander.
Did you play enough of it to see if it went away? Try making it to the point where Captain Sparrow makes his escape at the dock and see if the delay is gone by then.

I tried last night with my Sony DVD player and had no lip sync via 480i component in the entire movie. I am going to do some more tests tonight but my original plans were to get the SS 950 to use the HDMI for a completely digital domain so less noise, lip synch etc.

Right now I am favoring my old Sony (for a whole bunch of other reasons too) because the pick seems to be very good and I don't have as much lip synch. Last night I watched Sin City and it seemed awesome to me.

Looks more and more like the SS 950 is heading to eBay. Maybe there is just something in the HDMI implementation that exacerbates the lip synch?

Question for Comcast users: I have component out from STB to component 1 on the TV. I also hooked up coax cable from STB to ant 1. When I try to scan channels it doesn't find more than two. Should I use a splitter to bypass the STB and if so, will the TV HD tuner display HD straight from the wall?
Thanx

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THEY HAVE THESE BOARDS IN STOCK TO SWAP OUT?You are right. There has been a shortage.

I THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE TO REPLACE THE SET AS THEY DON'T HAVE ANY BOARDS ON ACCOUNT OF THE SETS BEING SO NEW......They don't have to but that's what Samsung has been doing. The customer can still elect to wait for a new board.

Are you aware that using all caps is considered "shouting" in a forum.

Question for Comcast users: I have component out from STB to component 1 on the TV. I also hooked up coax cable from STB to ant 1. When I try to scan channels it doesn't find more than two. Should I use a splitter to bypass the STB and if so, will the TV HD tuner display HD straight from the wall?
Thanx

Yes, use a splitter. Yes, all unscrambled HD stations will be shown.

Hey I just got my 6178 yesterday and I am wondering if anyone can help me out. The set is powering down every once in a while (all of the lights on the front power button are flashing). It looks fine when its on. Is it possible that I already have a bulb issue?


Also, the HDMI signal from my Huges HD TIVO HR 10-250 is not working properly. Component works fine but the HDMI signal has huge blocks and the colors are all wrong it looks like a really "digitized". I tried 2 different HDMI cables in both ports. The output format doesn't seem to help either. I am running all of the rg6s from a multiswitch but my other tv looks fine and I don't see how component would work fine if it was a sattelite/rg6/multiswitch issue. I would guess that it would be some sort of digital output/input setting but I can't find any such setting on either the 10-250 or the 6178.

The HR10-250 is notorious for having bad hdmi ports. It can manifest itself from being totally dead, to not showing the colors properly. Chances are, you will need to get it replaced from Direct, or send it the hdmi card from the Tivo to a repair center that charges $100 to fix it.

Mike in Virginia

Can you help me with this?

1. At some point behind the screen, your tv is only 41 inches wide. how many inches back from the front of your screen is that point?

2. At some point behind the screen, your tv is only 25 inches tall. how many inches back from the front of your screen is that point?


Thanks.

OK,

I meant to respond the first time you asked, and forgot. Here's what I get for my 5078:
#1: 4 5/8"
#2: 7 3/4"

I would say that each measurement is + or - 1/16"

Could I ask what you're building that needs those measurements?

Hey I just got my 6178 yesterday and I am wondering if anyone can help me out. The set is powering down every once in a while (all of the lights on the front power button are flashing). It looks fine when its on. Is it possible that I already have a bulb issue?....................

Is you TV in a cabinet? If your TV does not have proper ventilation, and therefore cooling, the set will power down if it gets overheated. That's just one idea anyway.....

Mike in Virginia:

We have an existing opening in a wall that would just barely accept a 4677, and it would have a very nice built-in look. We would like to get a 5078 so we can get 1080p model. Trying to figure out whether we would need to do some reconstruction or if we could let most of the back end fit into the opening so that the TV only juts into the room a little. Wife would like it completely recessed but given the wall configuration (and existing recessed shelves etc) it would require some significant work. Based on the numbers you provided (thank you very much), it seems that the 5078 would only protrude into the room the 4 5/8 " you measured. Not too bad, and maybe we can find a clever way to put some sort of surround to make it look better. If in the end we decide on reconstruction then we might choose to go bigger :)

Ahhh. Sounds like a good approach. Two issues I'm sure you've thought of: 1) It's not a very heavy machine, but I'd make sure that the weight load is distributed pretty widely, including those front 4+ inches. 2) It seems like the rear part (the part in the wall) is where the heat is generated; whatever ventilation you have back there would need to be fairly effective. My TV is on a stand in the open air, so no problems on either count, but it probably doesn't look as neat as a built-in. Good luck. Send us some pictures if you go that route!

WOW
-You probably already knew this, but with PIP, you can hook two xboxs up and play them at the same time.
-I put component 1 on GAME mode, and even though it is a little pixelated, there is no lag. With a component connection, you do actually see and hear so many things you cant in the three pin connection.
-I know I should really get a $300 UPS or something, but I'm just going to get a $75 UPS so it will just power the tv's fan when there's a power outage. I like to live dangerously :cool: .
-Will it make a difference if I just buy the HD DVR online? What benefits do I get by paying monthly for the HD DVR?

BTW, when you guys got the tv out of the box, did you ever end up with the tv being horizontal at any point (like tiping the box over and sliding it out)? That might have been the cause of some of the problems. Not trying to be stupid, but I didn't notice the clamps on the box until about a second before I was going to tip it over. I almost tipped the tv horizontaly :( .

If your referring to Direct tv they have a special for DVR-Tivo for 649.00 with 100.00 rebate=549.00 without tax.If you want ota atenna add 50.00.The HD package is 10.99 p/month.

I was reffering to his comments about the pic:

"Also, the HDMI signal from my Huges HD TIVO HR 10-250 is not working properly. Component works fine but the HDMI signal has huge blocks and the colors are all wrong it looks like a really "digitized".

The HDMI card is not the problem. The problem is that these TVs

will not accept any Dolby Digital audio via HDMI so it is necessary to change the audio settings in the HR10-250 to NOT record and playback Dolby Digital.
But that means that it doesn't send Dolby Digital to an external A/V receiver via digital optical either!
Any you can't use analog audio between the HR10-250 and the Samsung's DVI Audio input either!
Not a very smart design decision by Samsung IMHO.

The HDMI card is not the problem. The problem is that these TVs will not accept any Dolby Digital audio via HDMI so it is necessary to change the audio settings in the HR10-250 to NOT record and playback Dolby Digital.
But that means that it doesn't send Dolby Digital to an external A/V receiver via digital optical either!
Any you can't use analog audio between the HR10-250 and the Samsung's DVI Audio input either!
Not a very smart design decision by Samsung IMHO.

Actually I just checked, the 10-250 was set to regular sound. I then changed it to Record and Playback Dolby Digital. The picture over HDMI remained crappy but changing that setting had no effect on the sound.

So that means it might be the HDMI card in the 10-250? I have a Sony DVD player coming in Monday or Tuesday so I can check another HDMI source then.

at the risk of getting off topic, check out this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=254292

you can get the dvr-tivo for like $300.

just remember that from now on, advanced receiver activations automatically lock you in for 2 years, regardless if you bought it from a official vendor at full price or through a promotion from Direct.

If your referring to Direct tv they have a special for DVR-Tivo for 649.00 with 100.00 rebate=549.00 without tax.If you want ota atenna add 50.00.The HD package is 10.99 p/month.

at the risk of getting off topic, check out this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=254292

you can get the dvr-tivo for like $300.

just remember that from now on, advanced receiver activations automatically lock you in for 2 years, regardless if you bought it from a official vendor at full price or through a promotion from Direct.

Great so I bought a 10-250 for like $500 and it doesn't work. I suppose I can return it. Are you better off getting a reciever from directv to get the credit? Or can I get the credit from a vendor?

The HDMI card is not the problem. The problem is that these TVs will not accept any Dolby Digital audio via HDMI so it is necessary to change the audio settings in the HR10-250 to NOT record and playback Dolby Digital.
But that means that it doesn't send Dolby Digital to an external A/V receiver via digital optical either!
Any you can't use analog audio between the HR10-250 and the Samsung's DVI Audio input either!
Not a very smart design decision by Samsung IMHO.


Wait...am I misunderstanding this? I have the hr10-250 - hdmi to the tv (5668) and optical to the AVR. When I watch movies ppv or others, I switch the HR10 to bitstream and listen through my surround sound; when watching other tv I switch back to PCM & listem through the tv speakers. Picture is fine both ways.

Sure you can see a difference. I can see SDE on my 50 inch GWIII from 15 ft at times. You're likely to see more difference closer up, though.

Your set is an LCD RP, right? Thus I`m not surprised that you see SDE from so far away.

Is there any way to stretch the 1080 PC resolution to occupy the full screen? The screen shows the picture with right and left side vertical black bars. I have wide mode selected on the DLP. Also Auto Adjust option on DLP does not seem to fix this. Thanks.

Great so I bought a 10-250 for like $500 and it doesn't work. I suppose I can return it. Are you better off getting a reciever from directv to get the credit? Or can I get the credit from a vendor?

Just went to the tivo site,what amazing deals.Called D* and got my order squared away.5688 arrives tomorrow,stand a few days later.Hook up my WM Center 2005 puter and see what it can do.I hope the DVD player in it works fine.Anyone ever try this at home.

read some of the pages of the thread. you might be able to get some credit from Direct.

Great so I bought a 10-250 for like $500 and it doesn't work. I suppose I can return it. Are you better off getting a reciever from directv to get the credit? Or can I get the credit from a vendor?

Is there any way to stretch the 1080 PC resolution to occupy the full screen? The screen shows the picture with right and left side vertical black bars. I have wide mode selected on the DLP. Also Auto Adjust option on DLP does not seem to fix this. Thanks.

On the same page with wide mode there are options that allow you to stretch the picture horizontally and vertically. My 1080P pic from the PC fills the entire screen.

Want to see something really scary? see attached (if I did it correctly)

Might be some real good deals in New Orleans right about now :)

If you have an OTA hookup check out "HD to the Max". Its IMAX shows that have been converted to hi def at 16x9. Simply outstanding both content and especially visually. Be careful that your cable co does not downgrade it to SDTV.

For my area (Sacto) its on the UPN channel.

Wait...am I misunderstanding this? I have the hr10-250 - hdmi to the tv (5668) and optical to the AVR. When I watch movies ppv or others, I switch the HR10 to bitstream and listen through my surround sound; when watching other tv I switch back to PCM & listem through the tv speakers. Picture is fine both ways.

Why do you bother switching back to PCM and the TV speakers? The AVR should be able to handle the stereo bitstream from non Dolby Digital channels just fine (and many of them would benefit from its Pro Logic decoding if you have a surround sound system.

Is there any way to stretch the 1080 PC resolution to occupy the full screen? The screen shows the picture with right and left side vertical black bars. I have wide mode selected on the DLP. Also Auto Adjust option on DLP does not seem to fix this. Thanks.

If the black bars are wide (2" to 6") then it's a problem experienced by some of us with using "high end" vga cables. Get a cheap VGA cable, they work fine.

Last night we were watching the Pirates of the Caribbean and the lip synch was off by about 1 second. (this was with my SS HD950 via HDMI at 1080i). I put the disk in my old Sony DVPS7000 at 480i via component and no lip sync problem. Put the disk back into the 950 and it was back.I'll check the last two pages tomorrow to see if there's been much more discussion on the varying lip sync topic, but a quick update on my Sony S975V:

THE BAD: Before I even got the player, I was all excited about the 0-100ms audio delay feature. But I realized after going through the manual carefully that Sony says the adjustable audio delay (termed "A/V Sync" in the menus) on the player WILL NOT WORK if you are outputting a Dolby Digital or DTS signal through either the coax or optical out. In other words, the audio delay supposedly only works when outputting PCM through those jacks, or if you're outputting DD/DTS or PCM over HDMI. Cute.

THE GOOD: The video delay does not appear to be as noticeable when watching movies with this player as it was when I was running those same discs on my HD950. I'm outputting DD/DTS over coax, and video over HDMI at 1080i ... so far the delay is only noticeable when I'm really looking for it. Certain scenes that were repeatably bad on the HD950 are far better now. That's why I didn't notice originally that the delay feature wasn't working ... I just cranked up the delay and dropped in the problem discs, and didn't notice any problems. I'm not saying the video delay isn't there ... all I'm saying is that it's less noticeable, with less dramatic "rubber banding" within a film or scene so far.

Was out of town this weekend, and I haven't had enough time to try a ton of discs. Just a few so far. More reliable info to come when I can put the player through its paces.

Hey Guys, what do you recommend with the extended warranties? Should I get the 4 or 5 year programs? Or would it be better to just buy it with an american express blue card and live with the 1 year from the manufacturer and the year that amex gives you?

Thanks for any advice you can provide!

Hey Guys, what do you recommend with the extended warranties? Should I get the 4 or 5 year programs? Or would it be better to just buy it with an american express blue card and live with the 1 year from the manufacturer and the year that amex gives you?

Thanks for any advice you can provide!

Make sure it covers lamp replacement ... the lamp is $373 plus shipping and possibly tax.

I'll check the last two pages tomorrow to see if there's been much more discussion on the varying lip sync topic, but a quick update on my Sony S975V:

THE BAD: Before I even got the player, I was all excited about the 0-100ms audio delay feature. But I realized after going through the manual carefully that Sony says the adjustable audio delay (termed "A/V Sync" in the menus) on the player WILL NOT WORK if you are outputting a Dolby Digital or DTS signal through either the coax or optical out. In other words, the audio delay supposedly only works when outputting PCM through those jacks, or if you're outputting DD/DTS or PCM over HDMI. Cute.

THE GOOD: The video delay does not appear to be as noticeable when watching movies with this player as it was when I was running those same discs on my HD950. I'm outputting DD/DTS over coax, and video over HDMI at 1080i ... so far the delay is only noticeable when I'm really looking for it. Certain scenes that were repeatably bad on the HD950 are far better now. That's why I didn't notice originally that the delay feature wasn't working ... I just cranked up the delay and dropped in the problem discs, and didn't notice any problems. I'm not saying the video delay isn't there ... all I'm saying is that it's less noticeable, with less dramatic "rubber banding" within a film or scene so far.

Was out of town this weekend, and I haven't had enough time to try a ton of discs. Just a few so far. More reliable info to come when I can put the player through its paces.

You're right ... I just took another look and the AV alignment feature is not working on DD/DTS feed to receiver. Sorry, I've updated my review of the Sony DVP-NS975V in POST #4.

Why do you bother switching back to PCM and the TV speakers? The AVR should be able to handle the stereo bitstream from non Dolby Digital channels just fine (and many of them would benefit from its Pro Logic decoding if you have a surround sound system.


I don't have to switch back to the tv speakers, I just prefer to. Seems "unnatural" to me to to listen to tv with my surround sound system unless there is a movie, concert or major sporting event.

For me it's just the opposite. It's "unnatural" to listen to the TV through the TVs speakers. I've been listening through a surround system for so long, using the Tvs speakers just doesn't sound right.

Most avrs will let you change the mode per input and also set it to AUTO. You if you change it to stereo and have Auto on, it will automatically switch between stereo and 5.1 depending on the signal it receives from the source.

I don't have to switch back to the tv speakers, I just prefer to. Seems "unnatural" to me to to listen to tv with my surround sound system unless there is a movie, concert or major sporting event.

Try stereo on your avr with regular tv sources and you might be surprised at how good it sounds. Sounds very natural.

Regarding Pirates dvd. I checked it out this weekend. Watched the first 30 minutes and did not notice any lipsync problems. I've had my panasonic S97 set to 100ms since I connected it and that has worked with every dvd I've looked at since. There has been no variation needed on anything. With Pirates I specifically was looking for it since it was posted that there are differing time problems in this disc. I'm sorry but I didn't notice any of it. It all looked perfectly in sync.

Regarding Pirates dvd. I checked it out this weekend. Watched the first 30 minutes and did not notice any lipsync problems. I've had my panasonic S97 set to 100ms since I connected it and that has worked with every dvd I've looked at since. There has been no variation needed on anything. With Pirates I specifically was looking for it since it was posted that there are differing time problems in this disc. I'm sorry but I didn't notice any of it. It all looked perfectly in sync.

My old Sony does a good job too. Me thinks the (my) HD950 has some real flaws that are picked up and accentuated by my 5068. See my next post too.

From the DVD Players for Samsung 1080p DLP TVs - Summary of Options (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6107601&&#post6107601)

If you want to see how well your DVD player handles blacks on the SS xxx8 sets there are two good tests. One is chapter 13(?) of the Pirates of the Caribbean. This is the underwater scene. Look at the pirates as they walk by the camera and the ships hull as it turns. You should be able to see shadow detail. On my SS 950 these are all just black blotches.

The other great test is the opening scene of Sin City. Again on the SS 950 I get no shadow detail. On my older Sony DVD via component at 480i to the 5068 I get great shadow detail and great image quality too.

Thanks Bill

Has anyone experienced the following?

This morning I turned on my 6168 and had sound but no picture. (and I didn't see the "mode" indicator at all in the upper left corner either so it wasn't the STB which was on) The indicators on the circle power button were working normally (no flashing indication of a lamp issue). I turned the set off, waited a minute and turned it back on... same thing. I popped in a dvd and switched modes... same thing with dvd - sound but no picture (I did notice a faint glow on the screen with dvd). So I switched it off, waited about 15 minutes and then turned it back on and it worked! Came on normally. Could this be the bulb even though I had no indication of a bad bulb on the indicators?

And I don't know if this is related but on Saturday, when I turned on the set, I had picture but no sound. I hit the mute button (the mute indicator came on the screen), and then hit it again, and presto... sound.

Any thoughts? Note: I had my ballast replaced a couple of days after I got the set (along with a new bulb).

Thanks! Bill

Hello All,

I am having Comcast Digital Cable installed on Thursday. Comcast stated that I will be getting either a Motorolla DCT 5100 or DCT 6200. I am trying to learn as much about these boxes as possible. The Comcast person said that there isn't any HDMI output on these boxes (only Component and DVI).

My question is, should I use a DVI to HDMI cable or go with DVI to DVI? Does anyone have any experience with either of these boxes.

Also, has anyone found the magic button to switch PIP without having to go through all the menu's.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
-dreamr

Sorry, but looks like I have to use the DVI-HDMI cable. No DVI in on the set...

Hello All,

I am having Comcast Digital Cable installed on Thursday. Comcast stated that I will be getting either a Motorolla DCT 5100 or DCT 6200. I am trying to learn as much about these boxes as possible. The Comcast person said that there isn't any HDMI output on these boxes (only Component and DVI).

My question is, should I use a DVI to HDMI cable or go with DVI to DVI? Does anyone have any experience with either of these boxes.

Also, has anyone found the magic button to switch PIP without having to go through all the menu's.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
-dreamr

Sorry, but looks like I have to use the DVI-HDMI cable. No DVI in on the set...

You might want to consider upgrading to the Comcast Motorola 6412 HD DVR for $10 more ... it is really nice.

Does anyone know how to setup an ATI Radeon X300 so it will display at 1920X1080 on the HLR6178W? The best that I can get to display is 1280X768. all of the 1920X1080 modes, even at the 60 hz setting do not work and the TV displays - not supported mode.

Thanks

You might want to consider upgrading to the Comcast Motorola 6412 HD DVR for $10 more ... it is really nice.

Thanks for the info UCSB. Unfortunately, I am leasing it and those were the 2 choices I got. Can I buy one and use it instead of leasing???

-dreamr

My tv sometimes makes a one click sound. Any ideas? It can be distracting if it happens during a quiet scene.

Does anyone know how to setup an ATI Radeon X300 so it will display at 1920X1080 on the HLR6178W? The best that I can get to display is 1280X768. all of the 1920X1080 modes, even at the 60 hz setting do not work and the TV displays - not supported mode.The best place to get this kind of information is here.

Home Theater Computers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26)

I've have not had any trouble with our X800 or the older 9000 Pro getting 1280x720p to our HLP5063. They have both been connected to the TV's DVI port. I assume that you are using a HDMI to DVI cable to connect your cards DVI port to your TV's HDMI port. In that case it seems to me that it should work the same way. I don't know for sure that the x300 can output 1280x720p. Someone in the HTPC forum (above) should be able to tell you.

My question is, should I use a DVI to HDMI cable or go with DVI to DVI? Does anyone have any experience with either of these boxes.I have the 6200 and it's connected with the combo cable. Our set is 720p so I have the STB set to output 720p with 480i override OFF. If I had a 1080p set I would change the STB to output 1080i. It's worked fine for us. SD has been OK to Good, and HD has been good to excellent.

Thanks for the info UCSB. Unfortunately, I am leasing it and those were the 2 choices I got. Can I buy one and use it instead of leasing???

-dreamr

I'm pretty sure that Comcast is offering the DVR in all of their markets nationwide ... call back and ask (sometimes you may need to make a few calls due to lack of CSR training) and tell them you want the HD digital video recorder (DVR) instead of the HD STB you have on order. You can't buy one Comcast must supply it.

I don't know if it will fix the problem, but it will only take a minute to try. Take your lamp out and carefully reinstall it. Don't touch the lamp or reflector surface when handling. Good luck.

The problem is stil there. Although, I think the bad area dimmed a little.

You're right ... I just took another look and the AV alignment feature is not working on DD/DTS feed to receiver. Sorry, I've updated my review of the Sony DVP-NS975V in POST #4.Thanks Bill. No worries, I would have bought it without the AV alignment anyway. So far I'm still very happy with it ... unless it flakes out on me, I think it's a keeper. I'm hoping to spend more time this week evaluating it ... Eager to check out Pirates of the Carribean to see how crazy things get with varying lip sync.

I'm pretty sure that Comcast is offering the DVR in all of their markets nationwide ... call back and ask (sometimes you may need to make a few calls due to lack of CSR training) and tell them you want the HD digital video recorder (DVR) instead of the HD STB you have on order. You can't buy one Comcast must supply it.

Thanks Bill. I just called them back and asked if I could get the 6412. I threw in a view acronyms here and there (DVR, HDMI, DVI, etc.) and they said sure. I guess it's easy when they think you know what you are talking about (haha I fooled them).. :D

Anyways, with that done. My plan is to connect as follows:

STB ----> DVI to HDMI ---> 5668
STB ----> optical ----> AVR

My question is, does the TV get audio through the DVI to HDMI cable? If not, how do I connect the STB to the TV for audio through the TV speakers. I'm not one to watch normal TV through my surround sound unless it's a movie or football game.

Does that seem correct? If so, I'm off to by some cables.

Thanks again for the help.
-dreamr

My plan is to connect as follows:

STB ----> DVI to HDMI ---> 5668
STB ----> optical ----> AVR

My question is, does the TV get audio through the DVI to HDMI cable?No because it functions as a DVI cable -- video only.

If not, how do I connect the STB to the TV for audio through the TV speakers.I think that you can also split the coax cable before the STB and use your HD tuner for video and sound when you only want to use the TV's speakers.

Does that seem correct? If so, I'm off to by some cables.Yes, but watch out for extremely over priced HDMI/DVI cables from local retailers. You can get the exact same performance from on-line dealers like BlueJeans Cables for around $30.

My question is, does the TV get audio through the DVI to HDMI cable?

No. You need a STB with an HDMI output with audio enabled for this.

You could use stereo jacks from STB to TV if you really want to send audio
to your TV..

Can someone tell me how to get the base off of a 6168 that I got today Thanks

Ed

Haven't done it yet, but earlier post was to remove the two or three screws in the back, push down on the tabs and then it slides off to the front - I think (this is all from memory and looking at mine). Good luck!

can the 6168W HDMI port 1 accept a dvi source over a dvi to hdmi cable?????

i got a new oppo and i can not get it to come up on either port. i think my port 2 is bad but shouldn't it show up on port 1 ?

EDIT: i just tried my computer over dvi to hdmi 1 and was fine switched to oppo and nothing. frustrated as this is the second oppo same problem.

FYI i have the newest firmware and plugged in evrything with the tv and dvd unplugged

any ideas???

Does anyone know how to setup an ATI Radeon X300 so it will display at 1920X1080 on the HLR6178W? The best that I can get to display is 1280X768. all of the 1920X1080 modes, even at the 60 hz setting do not work and the TV displays - not supported mode.


How is it connected--HDMI or VGA? HDMI on the 6178 won't accept a 1080p signal, so unless you have it configured to send out 1080i from the DVI port, it won't work. VGA will take 1080p.

(Reports are that 1080i over HDMI doesn't look good for desktop/text, but looks good for DVD playback. People seem happy with 1080p over VGA in general.)

Can someone tell me how to get the base off of a 6168 that I got today Thanks

Ed

It has two screws underneath holding it in place. Remove those and give the base a ligh smack from the front and it should slide back.

can the 6168W HDMI port 1 accept a dvi source over a dvi to hdmi cable?????

i got a new oppo and i can not get it to come up on either port. i think my port 2 is bad but shouldn't it show up on port 1 ?

does the newest firmware resolve dvi any issues of the dvi on the oppo?

I believe so, I have a DishNetwork 921 PVR and I have an DVI-HDMI connected to it on HDMI 1

My tv sometimes makes a one click sound. Any ideas? It can be distracting if it happens during a quiet scene.All of Samsung's sets seem to make loud clicks and pops from time to time as the plastic shell heats up or cools down. Its just normal expansion and contraction. Yes, it is sometimes alarming during quiet scenes.

Gary

On the same page with wide mode there are options that allow you to stretch the picture horizontally and vertically. My 1080P pic from the PC fills the entire screen.

If you use those controls to expand the image as far as it will go, it locks into a 1:1 pixel mapping, resulting in a nice sharp picture. According to DVE, I am achieving this with only 2.5% overscan.

John

can the 6168W HDMI port 1 accept a dvi source over a dvi to hdmi cable?????

i got a new oppo and i can not get it to come up on either port. i think my port 2 is bad but shouldn't it show up on port 1 ?

EDIT: i just tried my computer over dvi to hdmi 1 and was fine switched to oppo and nothing. frustrated as this is the second oppo same problem.

FYI i have the newest firmware and plugged in evrything with the tv and dvd unplugged

any ideas???

What is actually on the screen after you try to connect the Oppo? Are you sure you've set the Oppo up properly to send its signal on the DVI port? (Have you stopped the player from playing before you hit the DVI key on the remote?) Does the Oppo successfully send its signal to the display using any of its other ports? My Oppo successfully plays at 1080i to the 5078 using the DVI-HDMI cable into HDMI-1.

Has anyone experienced the following?

This morning I turned on my 6168 and had sound but no picture. (and I didn't see the "mode" indicator at all in the upper left corner either so it wasn't the STB which was on) The indicators on the circle power button were working normally (no flashing indication of a lamp issue). I turned the set off, waited a minute and turned it back on... same thing. I popped in a dvd and switched modes... same thing with dvd - sound but no picture (I did notice a faint glow on the screen with dvd). So I switched it off, waited about 15 minutes and then turned it back on and it worked! Came on normally. Could this be the bulb even though I had no indication of a bad bulb on the indicators?

And I don't know if this is related but on Saturday, when I turned on the set, I had picture but no sound. I hit the mute button (the mute indicator came on the screen), and then hit it again, and presto... sound.

Any thoughts? Note: I had my ballast replaced a couple of days after I got the set (along with a new bulb).

Thanks! Bill

I have this, or a related issue, on my problem list too. Every once in a while (happened 3 times so far in two weeks), I will turn on the TV (it is in TV Mode) and after its normal warm-up I will get sound but no picture. If I hit the channel up/down button I will instantly get a picture when it changes the channel. May or may not be related to your problem and since you use a STB it does not sound like you could test my 'fix'.

All of Samsung's sets seem to make loud clicks and pops from time to time as the plastic shell heats up or cools down. Its just normal expansion and contraction. Yes, it is sometimes alarming during quiet scenes.

Or more likely as it says in the manual (we all read the manual...right...right!!!) its the tv guide feature doing its thing.

I just have the tv guide feature off.

What is actually on the screen after you try to connect the Oppo? Are you sure you've set the Oppo up properly to send its signal on the DVI port? (Have you stopped the player from playing before you hit the DVI key on the remote?) Does the Oppo successfully send its signal to the display using any of its other ports? My Oppo successfully plays at 1080i to the 5078 using the DVI-HDMI cable into HDMI-1.

there is no screen to describe as the tv does not detect it.
BUT...
if i have the tv on hdmi 1 with my dvr, turn tv off, wait for it to cool down unplug tv, unplug the dvr and plug in the oppo dvi to hdmi cord. plug everything in then it says check signal connection.

yes i press the dvi button on the remote in the setup screen. i have tried it at all resolutions nothing. frustrating as i know the tv port works and this is the 2nd oppo and i had a picture on hdmi port 2 for 15 minutes and now no port 2 no oppo dvi.

On the same page with wide mode there are options that allow you to stretch the picture horizontally and vertically. My 1080P pic from the PC fills the entire screen.


Strange, the info button on mine says 1920x1080 60Hz but the PC picture only stretches about 1" in any one direction. There are still about 4 inches wide of black bars on each side of the PC picture. The Top and Bottom of the PC picture are fine.

Has anyone experienced the following?

This morning I turned on my 6168 and had sound but no picture. (and I didn't see the "mode" indicator at all in the upper left corner either so it wasn't the STB which was on) The indicators on the circle power button were working normally (no flashing indication of a lamp issue). I turned the set off, waited a minute and turned it back on... same thing. I popped in a dvd and switched modes... same thing with dvd - sound but no picture (I did notice a faint glow on the screen with dvd). So I switched it off, waited about 15 minutes and then turned it back on and it worked! Came on normally. Could this be the bulb even though I had no indication of a bad bulb on the indicators?

And I don't know if this is related but on Saturday, when I turned on the set, I had picture but no sound. I hit the mute button (the mute indicator came on the screen), and then hit it again, and presto... sound.

Any thoughts? Note: I had my ballast replaced a couple of days after I got the set (along with a new bulb).

Thanks! Bill
I have a 2 week old 5678 and that has happened twice. Turn the set on, I get picture with no sound. Turn off and on again, fine. I am just guessing/wondering could it have to do with the "HDMI Handshake" I've read about here on the forum?

My 6168 showed up today! Ordered 7/24 from TVA Powerbuy

So far, unlike many here, I'm using the display 90% of the time as a computer monitor and 3D pyschedelic effects screen. I am completely blown away.

I'm now hunting for threads on how to get 1:1 pixel mapping. If anyone can guide me . . .

1080i will be deinterlaced ON THE SET. The 3:2 pulldown capability is needed on THE SET for this input...
Guys, let's not kid ourselves.
This tv has a "film mode" for a reason.
The tv has 'greyed' out film mode for 1080i for a reason.
The manual states film mode works only in 480i for a reason.

Don't you think if it can automatically 'detect' it needs the 3:2 pulldown in 1080i, that Samsung would have implemented this detection in 480i? Come on...AUPigskin, nobody is contradicting you. However, we assume you have confused things in your last statement above - its all backwards.

We know that this set does 3:2 pulldown detection on 480i.

It seems that it does NOT do 3:2 pulldown detection on 1080i.

What we want to know is WHY NOT? When you say "for a reason", do you know what that reason is? If so, share it.

We were simply exploring possible reasons, like...
Samsung may have supposed that DVD players and STB's would handle the 3:2 on 1080i, which may be valid, but the question then remains, what about OTA 1080i broadcasts from film-based material? The display would have to handle the 3:2, so why doesn't it?

Gary

AUPigskin, nobody is contradicting you. However, we assume you have confused things in your last statement above - its all backwards.

We know that this set does 3:2 pulldown detection on 480i.

It seems that it does NOT do 3:2 pulldown detection on 1080i.

What we want to know is WHY NOT? When you say "for a reason", do you know what that reason is? If so, share it.

We were simply exploring possible reasons, like...
Samsung may have supposed that DVD players and STB's would handle the 3:2 on 1080i, which may be valid, but the question then remains, what about OTA 1080i broadcasts from film-based material? The display would have to handle the 3:2, so why doesn't it?

Gary

How do we know for sure it does not? Problem is that upscaling DVD players
tend to convert to 480p and do reverse 3:2 pulldown before upconverting
to 1080i so we can't use them to test this. Film that is broadcast in
1080i also seems to have already done 3:2 reverse pulldown before
broadcast otherwise you would definitely notice 24fps mapped to 60fps
without it, i.e. you would be throwing away quite a bit of frames to
display it at 60fps and the picture would look "jumpy".

Thanks Bill. I just called them back and asked if I could get the 6412. I threw in a view acronyms here and there (DVR, HDMI, DVI, etc.) and they said sure. I guess it's easy when they think you know what you are talking about (haha I fooled them).. :D

Anyways, with that done. My plan is to connect as follows:

STB ----> DVI to HDMI ---> 5668
STB ----> optical ----> AVR

My question is, does the TV get audio through the DVI to HDMI cable? If not, how do I connect the STB to the TV for audio through the TV speakers. I'm not one to watch normal TV through my surround sound unless it's a movie or football game.

Does that seem correct? If so, I'm off to by some cables.

Thanks again for the help.
-dreamr

I just got two 6412s from Insight. They both are fitted with HDMI out. So I can get my audio straight from the TV or use the optical out from the 6412 to the AVR.

How do we know for sure it does not? Problem is that upscaling DVD players tend to convert to 480p and do reverse 3:2 pulldown before upconverting to 1080i so we can't use them to test this. Film that is broadcast in 1080i also seems to have already done 3:2 reverse pulldown before broadcast otherwise you would definitely notice 24fps mapped to 60fps without it, i.e. you would be throwing away quite a bit of frames to display it at 60fps and the picture would look "jumpy".The problem is more complex. Reverse 3:2 pulldown cannot be done "before broadcast". The 3:2 sequence must be retained during broadcast of film-based material at 60Hz... otherwise interlaced fields would be created from different film frames, and the result would be a mess. The DVD example you mentioned, might help to illustrate why:

Good upscaling DVD players first use reverse 3:2 pulldown to convert the 480i signal (with 3:2 sequence) to 480p (with the same 3:2 sequence - yielding 3 progressive frames, then 2 progressive frames, and so on), then they scale to 540p (retaining the 3:2 sequence), and finally re-interlace to 1080i. But if the re-interlacing is done properly, it retains that same 3:2 sequence again, to avoid creating interlaced fields from different film frames.

So if the original source material is film, any interlaced signal at 60Hz should have a 3:2 cadence (whether from an upconverting DVD player, STB, or OTA broadcast) and the TV should be able to do reverse 3:2 pulldown (film mode).

The "Secrets" Progressive Scan DVD (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html) article explains the reason for the 3:2 sequence very clearly.

Gary

Strange, the info button on mine says 1920x1080 60Hz but the PC picture only stretches about 1" in any one direction. There are still about 4 inches wide of black bars on each side of the PC picture. The Top and Bottom of the PC picture are fine.

You are using PC Wide? PC Wide has additional controls for moving the image area up/down, left/right, and change the size. They are the icons at the bottom of the screen. You can also get to them with the p button on the remote (open the bottom button section to get to it.

I had COMCAST installed yesterday with the Motorola 6412 DVR, the fan in this thing is really loud (I can hear it from 12 feet). Is this normal?

what about OTA 1080i broadcasts from film-based material? The display would have to handle the 3:2, so why doesn't it?

Gary

I would think for over the air any 3:2 processing would be done before it was broadcast they aren't changing the broadcast frequencies for each program so how woul a set know when it needed to do processing.

My 6168 showed up today! Ordered 7/24 from TVA Powerbuy

So far, unlike many here, I'm using the display 90% of the time as a computer monitor and 3D pyschedelic effects screen. I am completely blown away.

I'm now hunting for threads on how to get 1:1 pixel mapping. If anyone can guide me . . .

I think I've gotten the best quality VGA source picture possible on my 6168. To achieve 1:1 pixel mapping, enable pc wide and simply adjust the zoom under picture > size, so that the image is expanded as far as possible. The tv will not be scaling the image any at this point (assuming you're providing it a native 1920x1080 res). The only problem is, you'll be receiving a good bit of overscan. Using the latest nVidia drivers with an old Geforce FX 5200 (soon to be replaced with a 7800 GT :D), I played around with advanced timings until I got something that looked good. Here's what my resolution's currently set to:

1840x1024 with a HFP=80, HBP=120, VFP=31, VBP=51

Those porch numbers may not be entirely accurate, due to a bug with nVidia's drivers not refreshing those numbers correctly ... However, it should provide a nice starting point. I'd be interested in hearing any feedback / profiles you all stumble upon.

Once I build my new HTPC, I plan on going powerstrip, setting up custom profiles for particular games and such, having them execute in a batch file prior to the game starting, then reverting back to my desktop profile ... making the experience transparent to the end-user.

I give and I don't care about the 3:2 pulldown question what I want to know is how does it look on the screen if the TV is processing it and it looks good it can be reverse 8:5 processing for all I care.

So how does it look people?

I had COMCAST installed yesterday with the Motorola 6412 DVR, the fan in this thing is really loud (I can hear it from 12 feet). Is this normal?

No ... take it down and exchange it for another unit. But, before you do: does the unit have enough ventilation. It runs all of the time, so if you block the vents or place another piece of equipment on top of it or put it in an enclosed cabinet it will overheat and the fan will run all of the time. If you have the right ventilation, the fan should not be running. I've had my 6412 and from 10 feet have never had a problem with fan noise. You can hear the disc drive working sometimes.

No ... take it down and exchange it for another unit. But, before you do: does the unit have enough ventilation. It runs all of the time, so if you block the vents or place another piece of equipment on top of it or put it in an enclosed cabinet it will overheat and the fan will run all of the time. If you have the right ventilation, the fan should not be running. I've had my 6412 and from 10 feet have never had a problem with fan noise. You can hear the disc drive working sometimes.
Thanks for the info, the 6412 has plenty of space so ventilation should not be a problem. This unit must have a problem and will be returned. I don't think I can stand to have this little sewing machine humming away like this.

Strange, the info button on mine says 1920x1080 60Hz but the PC picture only stretches about 1" in any one direction. There are still about 4 inches wide of black bars on each side of the PC picture. The Top and Bottom of the PC picture are fine.

I'm guessing you're using a "high end" VGA cable? I had the exact same problem so I swapped out my fancy VGA cable for a cheap one, problem solved.

SO for VGA connections ....

Will you still get the 100ms delay from the HTPC/Games etc on teh audio?

Can someone recommed a nice (cheap) receiver that provides 100ms audio delay?

SO for VGA connections ....

Will you still get the 100ms delay from the HTPC/Games etc on teh audio?

Can someone recommed a nice (cheap) receiver that provides 100ms audio delay?


I get no audio delay with DVD, TV and games on my setup.
HTPC->VGA->6168
HTPC->Optical->AVR

One or two others in this thread mentioned some bizarre behavior similar to the following effect a week or two ago ... I need to look up their posts ... in the meantime, here's an entertaining little quirk of my 5078 that I finally noticed last night:

While watching Pirates of the Caribbean last night on my Sony S975V (1080i over HDMI), I was not exactly happy with shadow detail. Was trying to see a change in PQ by alternately turning the player's Black Level setting on and off, to little or no effect.

Then I went into my 5078's Movie mode settings and bumped the brightness one notch up from 48 to 49. As soon as I did that, there was a SIGNIFICANT improvement in picture quality ... shadow detail in particular was greatly improved. This was a degree of improvement that would never be represented by a single bump in the brightness setting.

Sure enough, I dropped it back to the original setting of 48, and the picture still looked fantastic. So apparently my 5078 is not keeping or using its adjusted settings until I mess with them a little ... they're not "sticking." Before I mess with the settings, there isn't enough shadow detail. Once I do, the picture looks great.

Tonight I'll see if this behavior is repeatable on the same input and all other inputs I'm using. Not that I want it to happen again, but I'd rather have a much better picture than not ... :rolleyes: An "entertaining" quirk that happens every time will quickly become an annoying one.

I never activated mine. The very first time you power on the tv, you get a wizard asking if you want to turn it on, I said no. So I know it's not that. I'll go with the cooling theory :)

Or more likely as it says in the manual (we all read the manual...right...right!!!) its the tv guide feature doing its thing.

I am amazed at the number of problems reported in this thread. I am anxious to get my first HDTV and have pretty much settled on the 6768. I know that some of these problems are associated with sources etc. However, it seems that more problems are discovered daily as adjustments are made to the SM and calibration. Why would it be necessary to have it professionally calibrated at several hundred dollars when calibration should have been done at the factory? Or at least provide the user with a detailed calibration manual etc. What do I need in external test gear to perform this?

We still have no real data on the percentage number of problem sets, not counting shipping damage.

A simple problem like no closed captions on hdmi. What's with that? I know my DTV HD tuner has caption feature. What's with the problem of the set not saving new settings?

Conclusion. Samsung 1080 sets are indeed a work in progress! But, perhaps thats true for all of the other makes.

Sorry for the rant, but this is starting to get to me.

I had a Samsung tech replace the digital board in my 5668W yesterday as I was having problems with red / blue specs in dark areas when using the component inputs. The new digital board fixed this issue but now I have two new problems that are much worse:( HDMI ports are REALLY flakey now and the VGA PC input now shows black as a dark shade of blue now... When using the HDMI inputs the screen will just randomly give HDCP errors and the signal will be lost.... Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't... Never had this problem before the "repair" and for whatever reason the aspect ratio and resolution get changed sometimes on my cable box when I switch to HDMI as well... Once again this never happened before.. Almost seems like there could be a short some where causing the cable box to freak out. I don't think I want to have a round 2 with the repairs so I am going to see if I can get a replacement set sent out to me...

I had a Samsung tech replace the digital board in my 5668W yesterday as I was having problems with red / blue specs in dark areas when using the component inputs. The new digital board fixed this issue but now I have two new problems that are much worse:( HDMI ports are REALLY flakey now and the VGA PC input now shows black as a dark shade of blue now... When using the HDMI inputs the screen will just randomly give HDCP errors and the signal will be lost.... Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't... Never had this problem before the "repair" and for whatever reason the aspect ratio and resolution get changed sometimes on my cable box when I switch to HDMI as well... Once again this never happened before.. Almost seems like there could be a short some where causing the cable box to freak out. I don't think I want to have a round 2 with the repairs so I am going to see if I can get a replacement set sent out to me...

Make sure your HDMI cable is firmly seated ... on both ends.

Make sure your HDMI cable is firmly seated ... on both ends.

It is... I reseated and reseated and the set is still flakey.

I am amazed at the number of problems reported in this thread. I am anxious to get my first HDTV and have pretty much settled on the 6768. I know that some of these problems are associated with sources etc. However, it seems that more problems are discovered daily as adjustments are made to the SM and calibration. Welcome to the bleeding edge (well, for RPTVs, at least) ;) ... This is my first HDTV as well, but I didn't exactly expect it to be perfect. I bought knowing the compromises I'd have to make, and found them acceptable. The quirks I'm encountering are not deal-breakers for me. Also, I don't believe I've read of any reports of problems after calibration ... perhaps I missed something. As far as quirks in the SM go, keep in mind that the SM was not intended for end-user adjustment in the first place without the assistance of a professional. What seems a "problem" to us may in fact be an intentional behavior tied to settings that we don't see or understand.

Why would it be necessary to have it professionally calibrated at several hundred dollars when calibration should have been done at the factory? Or at least provide the user with a detailed calibration manual etc. What do I need in external test gear to perform this?I've wondered this myself, but my current feeling is that there's no way to properly calibrate a display device at the factory to account for the myriad of sources and source devices it could be mated with. You're also talking about a hybrid product that has a mechanical aspect to it ... While you could certainly expect the shipping process to have no effect upon digitally stored settings from the factory, I think it's reasonable to expect that shipping and variances in the production process would produce tv's with mechanical components of slightly varying attributes ... which need to be accounted for in calibration. JMHO and best guess.

Is anyone finding that these TVs produce great blacks but seem to be lacking the ability to show detail in dark areas very well? With my HR10-250 connected via HDMI there is little to no detail in dark areas, they appear as pools of black. I've tried Dynamic, Standard, Movie and Custom picture modes and no amount of adjusting Contrast and Brightness will bring out the detail in dark areas.
By comparison, my aging HLM507 produces much more detail in dark areas (but the blacks aren't quite as good).
I noticed this last night during Las Vegas and CSI_Miami. I replayed some representative scenes on both TVs.

Hello AkaStp,

Which content do you see this with? Check out Underworld and Dark
City both of which are great for testing Shadow detail. I have also
viewed on a CRT and the Sammy 1080p sets do an amazing job with
shadow detail.

Please let me know what content you have seen this with so I can test
it on my display.

Thanks,

Tony

I'm using my 5678 primarily for video editing. I built a work station with dual Xenons and I use a standard UPS for it. It seems there are still some doubts as to which type of UPS to get and if the more expensive ones are really worth the difference in price? I started to try and remember the differences I had learned a while ago and then decided to do some Googling. I got mixed results in the sense that I couldn't find a link that discussed which UPS to use for non-PC use that was straightforward enough to post here. :eek: I then decided to go to a horses mouth at APC. :D Guess what? They sell a Pure Sine UPS for audio and video products. http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=310

It is worse to have a standard UPS connected to the Sammy's, or a plasma or LCD than to have nothing at all. I tried a few times to explain this and some here still doubted me or didn't have an understanding. I think I can explain it this way.

Everyone knows that a UPS converts the AC electricity to DC, they all do. The difference is in the way it is converted. A standard UPS, the less expensive and easier to find ones for computers, convert using a Modified Sine, that is the DC is not exactly the same flow or feed as the AC was. A Pure Sine replicates the flow or feed so that it is the same exact electricity as the AC, except of course it is now DC. A computer can operate with the Modified Sine, but these A/V electronics have a lower tolerance for it. I'm thinking it may have to do with the 60hz, OK I'm not that technical about electricity but I know the LCD, Plasma and DLP have to scan and process at a certain speed and I guess if it is slowed down or something it can cause problems.

Bottom line is you will damage your electronics if not now, soon, which could lead to repairs or replacements. Either get a Pure Sine UPS or don't use anything. A Sammy tech support rep told me a UPS wasn't necessary. I was only concerned about the bulb breaking. If you already bought a standard UPS I would either use it for a computer or give it away. I hope this clarifies this topic, it did for me. :cool:

Is anyone finding that these TVs produce great blacks but seem to be lacking the ability to show detail in dark areas very well? With my HR10-250 connected via HDMI there is little to no detail in dark areas, they appear as pools of black. I've tried Dynamic, Standard, Movie and Custom picture modes and no amount of adjusting Contrast and Brightness will bring out the detail in dark areas.
By comparison, my aging HLM507 produces much more detail in dark areas (but the blacks aren't quite as good).
I noticed this last night during Las Vegas and CSI_Miami. I replayed some representative scenes on both TVs.See my above post re: shadow detail with my S975V DVD player. The tv is not engaging its custom Movie mode settings (it's retaining the settings, but not "employing" them until I make a change to them). When it actually uses my adjusted settings, I'm getting noticeably improved shadow detail. When it's not, I definitely see yucky pools of black. I need to spend more time with the picture settings on the tv to see if I can recreate the problem/fix I encountered last night.

EDIT: UCSB has suggested to me in the DVD forum that I may get better results anyway by using (or at least starting) with the default settings on my 5078 and making the picture adjustments on my S975V ... meaning that I could just leave the default settings on the tv. Can't remember if you said your HR10-250 has any picture adjustments or not ... (the point being that if the source isn't set properly, the tv settings can only do so much). Wish I could help more with that particular source. How is shadow detail from your DVD players?

It is... I reseated and reseated and the set is still flakey.

Also check for bent pins...I had this problem and fixed it by straightening one of the pins.

The problem is more complex. Reverse 3:2 pulldown cannot be done "before broadcast". The 3:2 sequence must be retained during broadcast of film-based material at 60Hz... otherwise interlaced fields would be created from different film frames, and the result would be a mess. The DVD example you mentioned, might help to illustrate why:

Good upscaling DVD players first use reverse 3:2 pulldown to convert the 480i signal (with 3:2 sequence) to 480p (with the same 3:2 sequence - yielding 3 progressive frames, then 2 progressive frames, and so on), then they scale to 540p (retaining the 3:2 sequence), and finally re-interlace to 1080i. But if the re-interlacing is done properly, it retains that same 3:2 sequence again, to avoid creating interlaced fields from different film frames.

So if the original source material is film, any interlaced signal at 60Hz should have a 3:2 cadence (whether from an upconverting DVD player, STB, or OTA broadcast) and the TV should be able to do reverse 3:2 pulldown (film mode).

The "Secrets" Progressive Scan DVD (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html) article explains the reason for the 3:2 sequence very clearly.

Gary

Understood. That is my point. Either the Sammy is doing 3:2 reverse pulldown on
1080i broadcast *or* broadcasters are doing "something" before tramsmitting or
else 24fps film displayed at 60fps would be a mess since 24fps x (2 or 3) does
not precisely match the 60fps of our Sammy's. 3:2 pulldown is not a complicated
algorithm and I don't see any reason why Samsung would not provide it unless
there was some valid reason why it is not necessary.

Bottom line is you will damage your electronics if not now, soon, which could lead to repairs or replacements. Either get a Pure Sine UPS or don't use anything. A Sammy tech support rep told me a UPS wasn't necessary.

Is this true of power conditioner's as well? I had a Ultimate Electronics guy insisting that one of these would protect and extend the life of my set. What do you guys think?

http://www.tvauthority.com/Monster-Cables-and-Power/Monster-Power-MPHTS5000MKll.asp?dept=100&prod=1638

Also check for bent pins...I had this problem and fixed it by straightening one of the pins.

I retract my original statement... It looks like it is a problem with the cable... Under closer inspection it appears that the metal connector on one end of the cable is loose... I grabbed my trusty old HDMI - DVI cable and that seemed to work just fine... If I plug the good side of the cable into the TV and the loose side into the cable box I can reproduce the problem my wiggling the cable from the cable box. Chances are the technician damaged the one end of the cable when trying to plug it back in… There is still a problem with blacks being displayed on the PC input as they appear to be dark blue. I have tried 2 different cables and 2 different sources (PC and laptop) and I still have the same problem. My guess is that the technician forgot to copy the settings from the old digital board for the PC input into the new digital board.. I could see the settings for the PC input being independent of the settings for the other inputs as it is a direct input bypassing any processing...

I'm using my 5678 primarily for video editing. I built a work station with dual Xenons and I use a standard UPS for it. It seems there are still some doubts as to which type of UPS to get and if the more expensive ones are really worth the difference in price? I started to try and remember the differences I had learned a while ago and then decided to do some Googling. I got mixed results in the sense that I couldn't find a link that discussed which UPS to use for non-PC use that was straightforward enough to post here. :eek: I then decided to go to a horses mouth at APC. :D Guess what? They sell a Pure Sine UPS for audio and video products. http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=310

It is worse to have a standard UPS connected to the Sammy's, or a plasma or LCD than to have nothing at all. I tried a few times to explain this and some here still doubted me or didn't have an understanding. I think I can explain it this way.

Everyone knows that a UPS converts the AC electricity to DC, they all do. The difference is in the way it is converted. A standard UPS, the less expensive and easier to find ones for computers, convert using a Modified Sine, that is the DC is not exactly the same flow or feed as the AC was. A Pure Sine replicates the flow or feed so that it is the same exact electricity as the AC, except of course it is now DC. A computer can operate with the Modified Sine, but these A/V electronics have a lower tolerance for it. I'm thinking it may have to do with the 60hz, OK I'm not that technical about electricity but I know the LCD, Plasma and DLP have to scan and process at a certain speed and I guess if it is slowed down or something it can cause problems.

Bottom line is you will damage your electronics if not now, soon, which could lead to repairs or replacements. Either get a Pure Sine UPS or don't use anything. A Sammy tech support rep told me a UPS wasn't necessary. I was only concerned about the bulb breaking. If you already bought a standard UPS I would either use it for a computer or give it away. I hope this clarifies this topic, it did for me. :cool:

I do know a great deal about electricity and how UPSs work. I think the pure sine wave UPSs are a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. It's just another way for UPS companies to separate you from more of your money.

Wanna buy some Monster cables? :)

I'd like to be able to say that I disagree with you but unfortunately I don't. I have to admit to being rather disappointed with my 5078, its proving to be a lot more hassle than I would have expected. My basis for comparison is a 3 year old Samsung HLM507 which has always produced a great picture so the incremental difference is not as great as it is for those folks for which this would be their first HDTV. I had expected better of a TV that has an MSRP of $3800. I had high hopes. Aside from any PQ issues, I am finding the HDMI audio connectivity and lip synch thru A/V receiver problems to be a real PITA! Such problems should simply not still exist as they were problems in the preceding HLPxx63 models and should have been fixed by now. PQ problems may or may not be fixable by calibration. I'm not sure about the ability to display SD sources well (my HLM507 does a more acceptable job with SD). Bottom line is that I'm coming to the conclusion that this 1080p TV is not mature enough for my tastes right now and I may be better off waiting a while longer and/or reconsidering other models like the Mits and Toshiba 1080p TVs or the Sony SXRD or just another good 720p set.

AkaStp,

Yes, there certainly appears to be issues with Audio/Video lag. There are
no HDMI issues on this set.

But the PQ is outstanding - I want a set to faithfully and accurately display
what I send it. If I send it crap, I want to see crap. If I send a high quality
image I want to see a high quality image. Give me a diplay like this sammy
and I will worry about what signal to send it. There is no comparison
between this TV and our old TV, in my opinion.

What are you looking for? A "MAGIC BOX" that alters the image to one
that YOU are happy with?

I am not sure if you are trying to convince us or yourself. If you don't like
the TV, send it back...

Best regards,

Tony

Is this true of power conditioner's as well? I had a Ultimate Electronics guy insisting that one of these would protect and extend the life of my set. What do you guys think?

http://www.tvauthority.com/Monster-Cables-and-Power/Monster-Power-MPHTS5000MKll.asp?dept=100&prod=1638

It is my understanding that there is a big difference between a power conditioner and a UPS. The power conditioner is supposed to output Pure Sine power to help the devices connected to it operate properly and cleanly during normal use, voltage spikes or brown outs. A UPS is there to provided power when there is no power. It will also take the hit of a spike and provide power during a brown out but it is not considered "clean power".

I have been told that a power conditioner is much more beneficial to your A/V equipment than any UPS.

With that said, if you are looking for a good deal on a power conditioner, Westa told me about the PureAV which is sold at all the A/V BM's that I have been to for big bucks, for a fraction of the cost online. I don't know if I can post the site and price here, so PM if you are interested.

-dreamr

There are
no HDMI issues on this set.


I'm not sure all would agree with this.

I'm not sure all would agree with this.

I know all would not agree but no TV set that I know receives
5.1 DD over HDMI from a STB or DVD. Do you know why?
Because it is absolutely not necessary. The TV speakers
are not some kind of Yamaha YSP-1 that will play pseudo
5.1 DD or DTS.

Aside from any PQ issues, I am finding the HDMI audio connectivity and lip synch thru A/V receiver problems to be a real PITA! Such problems should simply not still exist as they were problems in the preceding HLPxx63 models and should have been fixed by now.I can't disagree with you there ... this seems largely to be their greatest shortcoming. But I bought knowing the problem existed and knowing I'd probably have to work around it, for I did not want to wait for the next generation of set ... so I'm still quite happy, despite my desire for it to be better in certain respects.

Tony, the only issue I think many would raise with the HDMI implementation on these sets is its inability to pass DD/DTS into the set via HDMI and subsequently output that DD/DTS signal via optical ... if it could, it would render their slow video processing time irrelevant (except in console gaming applications). Is this a killer for me? Obviously not, because I am comfortable with the compromises I've made in my system. For those that are unwilling to make those compromises, then sure, it's a different story and it's back to the waiting game.

I can't disagree with you there ... this seems largely to be their greatest shortcoming. But I bought knowing the problem existed and knowing I'd probably have to work around it, for I did not want to wait for the next generation of set ... so I'm still quite happy, despite my desire for it to be better in certain respects.

Tony, the only issue I think many would raise with the HDMI implementation on these sets is its inability to pass DD/DTS into the set via HDMI and subsequently output that DD/DTS signal via optical ... if it could, it would render their slow video processing time irrelevant (except in console gaming applications). Is this a killer for me? Obviously not, because I am comfortable with the compromises I've made in my system. For those that are unwilling to make those compromises, then sure, it's a different story and it's back to the waiting game.

Calbert, good point, but the complaint, in my opinion, should be that the TV
does not have some auto lip sync built in - not that I can't send 5.1 DD to
the TV since if even if you could it would not help anything without the auto
lip sync feature, correct?

The TV is not perfect by any means but those of us who bought the set
for PQ won't find better anywhere on a RP in my opinion, espically for
film based content. The blacks are really black! Combine this with the
high CR and the shadow detail is amazing. Check out super bit UnderWorld
and tell me different :-)

I feel you have a tendency to dismiss everyone else's concerns in your defense of your TV to the extent that you miss their points.
Anyway my point is this...

I referred to HDMI audio connectivity.

I can connect my Panny S97 DVD player via HDMI to my 5078 and get sound through the TV's speakers and DD (bitstream) via digital connection to my A/V receiver without having to change any settings. So, if my wife wants to watch a DVD using the TV's speakers she can do so easily, no need to have to change or disable anything.

If I connect my HR10-250 via HDMI to my 5078 with the HR10-250 configured to record and playback Dolby Digital there is no sound through the TV's speakers. To get sound through the TV's speakers you have to go several menus deep in the HR10-250 to turn off its ability to record and playback Dolby Digital with the result that you don't get DD through the A/D receiver should you want to listen that way.
I prefer to have the HR10-250 configured to always record and playback Dolby Digital so we can choose to listen through the TV speakers or the A/V receiver.
My wife wants to be able to turn on the TV and watch DirecTV programming without having to going several menus deep into the HR10-250 to reconfigure it not to record and playback Dolby Digital.

So, the S97 sends audio over HDMI to the TV's speakers and DD to the A/V receiver but the HR10-250. The Samsung 850 DVD player behaves like the HR10-250 with no audio through the TV speakers when using HDMI unless you change the 850's HDMI audio options.

I don't know whether the problem is with the TV or the HR10-250 (though I can guess which you'll point to ;-) but the point is that it isn't behaving quite the way I'd like it to. I'm sure some people will say that you shouldn't use the TV's speakers but thats not really the point.

I am trying to determine if this a problem for anyone else or if its just me so I can make the best decision whether to return the TV or not.

I am not being defensive - just getting frustrated regarding all the confusion
on what the real issues are. All you need from the TV is to receive stereo
over HDMI and I get this from two DVD players I tried and from my Dish set
top box. If this is not happending and no one has suggestions for you then
call both Samsung tech support and the supplier's tech support for your
component.

Do you see me defending the Audio / Video lag problem people are reporting?
I don't see on every channel but some of the Voom channels are bad and
Discovery HD is really bad. I don't know if its in the source or just exaggerated
on these channels ... This does appear to be a valid issue. If I was a gamer I
would not buy this set..

The audio lag/lip sync issue is likely on Dish's side. I have a JVC 52G786 with a Dish 942 HD DVR. There are issues mostly on RAVE and RUSH HD. Several others on DBSTalk have reported this to Dish. They responded that their engineers have recognized the problem and are troubleshooting it.

The audio lag/lip sync issue is likely on Dish's side. I have a JVC 52G786 with a Dish 942 HD DVR. There are issues mostly on RAVE and RUSH HD. Several others on DBSTalk have reported this to Dish. They responded that their engineers have recognized the problem and are troubleshooting it.

Unless I missed something, I believe some people claim to be seeing this
on DVDs too. Do you think it is there DVD player too?

So, the S97 sends audio over HDMI to the TV's speakers and DD to the A/V receiver but the HR10-250. The Samsung 850 DVD player behaves like the HR10-250 with no audio through the TV speakers when using HDMI unless you change the 850's HDMI audio options.For your needs, yes, I would be a bit frustrated as well. The way I see it, you have shortcomings at the source device and at the display device -- the combination of which is annoying the hell out of you. The tv won't accept DD/DTS via HDMI, yet the HR10-250 won't send different signals over different outputs. Bummer, sounds like something has to go away (the tv, the HR10-250, or your desire/need to keep the same audio setup as you had before). Good luck, not an easy solution!

Tony: When you input PCM over HDMI or L/R analog, and then output that audio to your AVR, the tv does a fantastic job of synchronizing the audio and video. I do this currently with my STB, and there are no lip sync problems. So it already does a kind of "auto" a/v sync by not outputting the audio until the video is processed. Nice. The problem is that you can't take advantage of the tv's ability to do this with DD/DTS audio sources from an external source (other than OTA or CC), because you can't get DD/DTS into the tv and passed over to the optical out. Whether we call it a shortcoming or not, the tv is incapable of doing this, and therefore limits your audio options within the system. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying other comparable sets have this feature, either. Just that it's a limitation. Acceptable for some, not for others. Hope that helps ...

Hey everyone!

I Hope you're all doing well. I've been away off and on pretty much the entire month of August. I got a email from my installer yesterday who informed me that the Samsung's have finally hit Canada and just became available recently so he's looking into a price for me (woot!). I'm just curious if any new issues have popped up, or things have settled down somewhat? I've decided that for lag with gaming I'll just use GAME mode because most games on the PS2 are 480i or 480p anyways, so that's a big a loss as the XBox which is 720p, unless we've found a solution for that.

Thanks!

- D

EDIT: Also has the Denon 3910 pretty much been ruled out as working nicely with the Samsung's? Do we have a favorite DVD player of similar quality?

Tony: When you input PCM over HDMI or L/R analog, and then output that audio to your AVR, the tv does a fantastic job of synchronizing the audio and video. I do this currently with my STB, and there are no lip sync problems. So it already does a kind of "auto" a/v sync by not outputting the audio until the video is processed. Nice. The problem is that you can't take advantage of the tv's ability to do this with DD/DTS audio sources from an external source (other than OTA or CC), because you can't get DD/DTS into the tv and passed over to the optical out. Whether we call it a shortcoming or not, the tv is incapable of doing this, and therefore limits your audio options within the system. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying other comparable sets have this feature, either. Just that it's a limitation. Acceptable for some, not for others. Hope that helps ...

I was not aware that the set was auto lip / syncing stereo over HDMI.
So you do see lag when you don't do this? For example, if you send
stereo directly to your AV receiver..

I can connect my Panny S97 DVD player via HDMI to my 5078 and get sound through the TV's speakers and DD (bitstream) via digital connection to my A/V receiver without having to change any settings. So, if my wife wants to watch a DVD using the TV's speakers she can do so easily, no need to have to change or disable anything.

If I connect my HR10-250 via HDMI to my 5078 with the HR10-250 configured to record and playback Dolby Digital there is no sound through the TV's speakers. To get sound through the TV's speakers you have to go several menus deep in the HR10-250 to turn off its ability to record and playback Dolby Digital with the result that you don't get DD through the A/D receiver should you want to listen that way.
I prefer to have the HR10-250 configured to always record and playback Dolby Digital so we can choose to listen through the TV speakers or the A/V receiver.
My wife wants to be able to turn on the TV and watch DirecTV programming without having to going several menus deep into the HR10-250 to reconfigure it not to record and playback Dolby Digital.
...

Would leaving the DVD player/HR10-250 on the Dolby Digital settings and running extra L/R audio cables from the devices to the TV solve the issue?

I was not aware that the set was auto lip / syncing stereo over HDMI. So you do see lag when you don't do this? For example, if you send
stereo directly to your AV receiver..I should probably retract my statement about syncing stereo over HDMI until I test it again tonight. I'll report back on that.

The following setup exhibits synchronized A/V:

V: SA8300HD STB ---(component)--> 5078
A: SA8300HD STB ---(analog l/r)--> 5078 ---(optical)--> Denon 1803 AVR

The Denon's DSP is using DTS Neo: 6 to simulate surround and doesn't do too bad. Acceptable for my cable tv usage until I upgrade to an AVR with audio delay or buy a Felston. Again, I'll report back on sending PCM over HDMI and then out via optical. I expect it to synchronize just fine, but thanks for questioning me on that.

EDIT: If your second question is asking if I see a/v sync problems when stereo is sent to the AVR directly from the source device, then the answer would be yes, there are a/v sync problems. Since the audio never makes it to the tv in the first place, the tv can do nothing to help sync the two signals.

Tony, how do you explain the very large numbers of posts all over this forum (and others) during the past days, weeks and months during the past year about lip synch and delay problems with the Samsung HLP models and the newer HLR 67 and 68 and 78 models with DVD players, sat receivers, cable receivers and gaming consoles? Are they all mistaken? Can that many people possibly be wrong about these problems with the Samsungs? Are they all expecting too much? Why are such problems only being reported in any appreciable quantity for Samsungs and hardly at all for any other make of TV? I'm sorry if this sounds like Samsung-bashing for, as you know as well as anybody, I've been an advocate and defender of Samsung TVs during the onslaught of negativity and attacks from certain people. However, if Samsung aren't going to step up to the plate and fix these issues they are going to lose to the competition that don't have such problems.


Are you reading my posts? Where did I say there was no audio / video lag
problems? Wow Bro, did you not read where I said if I were a gamer I would
NOT buy this TV...

What the hell does this have do with bashing?

Hey, I'm done responding to your "issues" we obviously are *NOT* comminicating..

Is anyone finding that these TVs produce great blacks but seem to be lacking the ability to show detail in dark areas very well? With my HR10-250 connected via HDMI there is little to no detail in dark areas, they appear as pools of black. I've tried Dynamic, Standard, Movie and Custom picture modes and no amount of adjusting Contrast and Brightness will bring out the detail in dark areas.
By comparison, my aging HLM507 produces much more detail in dark areas (but the blacks aren't quite as good).
I noticed this last night during Las Vegas and CSI_Miami. I replayed some representative scenes on both TVs.


This is an issue that I raised way back toward the begining of this thread and no one responded to. Anything that was dark in color on my 6168 showed as total black - no texture or detail at all. After talking to TVA & Samsung TVA sent me a new set. The new one is much better but still shows some of this problem. Tweaking the picture settings helps some but not totally. It is also very source dependent. Some DVD's worse than others; HD content over the HR10-250 worse than SD content. Sometimes going to movie mode helps, other times not. Turning contrast way down helps but really washes the picture out.

There seems to be enough sporadic reports of this that I would think it not unusual and maybe a function of the way Samsung has set things up. My thinking is that I will just wait a bit and get the set calibrated & see if that helps. It will be interesting to see other 1080P DLP's to see if they exhibit this problem. It seems there is just too much CR. Maybe changing gamma would help but I am not interested in getting into the SM.

On lip sync: I noticed a lot of variation from station to station and a general lag from the Panasonic S97. I have delay set at 60ms on everything and that seems to have smoothed things out to the point that it is not noticable from any source. This seems to be a nice miiddle ground setting.

This is an issue that I raised way back toward the begining of this thread and no one responded to. Anything that was dark in color on my 6168 showed as total black - no texture or detail at all. After talking to TVA & Samsung TVA sent me a new set. The new one is much better but still shows some of this problem. Tweaking the picture settings helps some but not totally. It is also very source dependent. Some DVD's worse than others; HD content over the HR10-250 worse than SD content. Sometimes going to movie mode helps, other times not. Turning contrast way down helps but really washes the picture out.

There seems to be enough sporadic reports of this that I would think it not unusual and maybe a function of the way Samsung has set things up. My thinking is that I will just wait a bit and get the set calibrated & see if that helps. It will be interesting to see other 1080P DLP's to see if they exhibit this problem. It seems there is just too much CR. Maybe changing gamma would help but I am not interested in getting into the SM.

On lip sync: I noticed a lot of variation from station to station and a general lag from the Panasonic S97. I have delay set at 60ms on everything and that seems to have smoothed things out to the point that it is not noticable from any source. This seems to be a nice miiddle ground setting.


Can you do us a favor? Will you watch either Dark City or Superbit Underworld
on DVD and tell us if you don't see smazing shadow detail? Also let us know the DVD player...

John, the conditioner you have is good and salesman highly recommend them and they should. I have a thing though with Monster cables. They are highly overpriced and I don't know of any true unbiased test that shows they are any better than others, especially when comparing the price. The other thing is they sue small people left and right for using names they feel could associate with them in a bad way. I'd say get a good, less expensive conditioner not made by Monster.

Can anyone forsee any problem piggybacking a power conditioner onto a UPS i already have? i found a nice conditioner for $60 or so, and wouldn't need any surge control, if this is viable.

My thinking is that I will just wait a bit and get the set calibrated & see if that helps. It will be interesting to see other 1080P DLP's to see if they exhibit this problem. It seems there is just too much CR. Maybe changing gamma would help but I am not interested in getting into the SM.Changing gamma to zero "and" using the Digital Video Essentials disk will help some. One of the main benefits to having an ISF calibrator with Samsung experience and the right equipment work on your set is details in dark scenes.

Good luck.

I agree with Dreamr except if he was referring to Pure Sine UPS, which would by its definition have to have clean power. In other words afaik Pure Sine UPS includes the conditioners and cleaners that are sold without the UPS components. I did see one article mention when Googling that some UPS might not use the battery until there is an outage. In other words check to be sure the UPS is conditioning and using the battery at all times, which I think they should be.

Tyrod, I don't see how you can say what you did after I just went through the Pure Sine issue? I mean, if you know a lot about electricity you would know there is a difference right? So maybe what you are saying is that all of these electronics manufacturers are wrong when asked which UPS to use if one was connected to their product? They don't make the UPS so what do they care which one you buy? Is it a conspiracy that the UPS makers want you to buy the more expensive ones? Maybe they tell you that since you need it according to everyone that knows what the difference is between modified and pure. I just want people here to know what the difference is and to not pay attention to those that say otherwise. Why don't you send a link of the conflicting information? I just gave all of the facts so it irritates me having to go through it again and confuse others here.

Aural, that won't work. What I mean is you won't know it doesn't work. You would be better off only using the conditioner. Connecting a UPS that doesn't say it is Pure Sine will damage your set at some point. If it does it probably isn't covered under warranty.

Aural, that won't work. What I mean is you won't know it doesn't work. You would be better off only using the conditioner. Connecting a UPS that doesn't say it is Pure Sine will damage your set at some point. If it does it probably isn't covered under warranty.

well, if the conditioner is connected to the UPS and the components connected to the conditioner, wouldn't the components be receiving "clean" power? from the conditioners i've seen, you're paying a premium for decent surge protection, which i would like to avoid, since i already have a HQ surge protection solution .. my UPS.

AC source -> UPS -> conditioner -> components

Aural, that won't work. What I mean is you won't know it doesn't work. You would be better off only using the conditioner. Connecting a UPS that doesn't say it is Pure Sine will damage your set at some point. If it does it probably isn't covered under warranty.I haven't read through the entire clean power thread yet, but my only question specifically regarding this subject in relation to these Samsung televisions is how do we know that the television needs a pure sine wave? Is there something in the manual that states this, or is it just conventional wisdom with a/v equipment that sine is preferred?

Unless your answer is specific to these sets, we should probably take the discussion to the clean power thread for further dialogue. Thanks!

Unforunately not, I've tried that. It appears that the TV ignores the analog inputs (aka DVI audio for HDMI input #2) when using an HDMI connection. Maybe thats another "issue" that needs to be addressed.

I don't have the TV nor d* box you mention, but what makes you think that, when the 250 is set to output DD, that will will send a pcm/analog audio signal over RCA audio cables ? The SA8300HD cable box seems to act just like the 250 you have, and seen similar results.

Aural, if your UPS states it is Pure Sine then it is either fine or probably not necessary to have the conditioner as well. If it is a standard UPS that doesn't have Pure Sine on it than you are not getting the same electric flow as you would by plugging directly into the wall. That said it is not the same thing and it has been said many times, I guess not here at all, that any of these types of products require Pure Sine UPS or none at all. What more can I say?

Calbert, I think the issue here is that some are considering connecting their sets via UPS to save the bulb. That was my understanding. I don't have my 5678 Sammy yet, but when I do I and others like yourself can confirm, I don't think the manual will mention UPS? I called Sammy tech. support a few weeks ago and the rep I spoke with said a UPS is not necessary, however if you use one it must be Pure Sine. I guess the way you mentioned it sounds like this is discussed often elsewhere. I guess I don't understand why people either disagree or pay no attention to the facts? A UPS works differently than a Pure Sine UPS. If anything no one should use a Modified standard UPS and only use a Pure Sine for everything since the electricity is the same in a Pure Sine as from the wall and a standard UPS is not.

If your second question is asking if I see a/v sync problems when stereo is sent to the AVR directly from the source device, then the answer would be yes, there are a/v sync problems. Since the audio never makes it to the tv in the first place, the tv can do nothing to help sync the two signals.

The tv is not syncing anything. As far as I know there is nothin in a video feed or audio feed over hdmi that tells the 2 different signals where and when they should occur in relation to each other. They would need some kind of timing code that runs on both signals in order to keep them in sync. If that were the case then the tv could just pass the timing code along with the signals when sent to a receiver. The reason they are in sync when over hdmi right into the tv is because they are combined in the same signal so of course its going to be in sync. It leaves the cable box in sync over the same cable and arrives at the same time in the tv and is processed as a whole. If you split video and audio you can no longer rely on that. There is cable speed differences as well as different processing happening (conversions, translations etc) on each signal so of course they "could" get out of sync. Totally relies on the speed of the processors at each end.

I'm totally convinced that its source related when it deals with HD and cable boxes. For example, I was watching local news last night on one of the local channels. The news broadcast was out of sync but the commercials were not. Now someone try and tell me that the tv was converting the commercials differently than the newscast. I very rarely get sync problems on hd or standard tv material. I get a constant sync problem out of my panasonic S97 connected with hdmi to the tv and optical to my processor. Setting delay to 100ms fixes this for every dvd I've tried. But there is no way for me to tell if its the upconversion causing the delay, my processor causing the delay, or the tv causing the delay.

Are there lags? Of course. Is it the tv's fault? I'm not convinced it is. I'm more convinced its the combination of all the components than any one component's fault.

The tv is not syncing anything. As far as I know there is nothin in a video feed or audio feed over hdmi that tells the 2 different signals where and when they should occur in relation to each other. They would need some kind of timing code that runs on both signals in order to keep them in sync. If that were the case then the tv could just pass the timing code along with the signals when sent to a receiver. The reason they are in sync when over hdmi right into the tv is because they are combined in the same signal so of course its going to be in sync. It leaves the cable box in sync over the same cable and arrives at the same time in the tv and is processed as a whole. If you split video and audio you can no longer rely on that. There is cable speed differences as well as different processing happening (conversions, translations etc) on each signal so of course they "could" get out of sync. Totally relies on the speed of the processors at each end.Agree; well put. I shouldn't have referred to the television as actively attempting to sychronize the audio and video. My recent posts about this were in the spirit of your explanation above.

I also agree that sync problems are source-related, to a degree. I will never blame the tv for something it can't control. The other factor in the prevalent sync problems is the processing speed of the tv, which appears to exacerbate sync problems originating from any source by pushing them beyond our threshold for noticing them. Your last statement sums this up nicely:

... I'm more convinced its the combination of all the components than any one component's fault.

Calbert, I think the issue here is that some are considering connecting their sets via UPS to save the bulb. That was my understanding. I don't have my 5678 Sammy yet, but when I do I and others like yourself can confirm, I don't think the manual will mention UPS? I called Sammy tech. support a few weeks ago and the rep I spoke with said a UPS is not necessary, however if you use one it must be Pure Sine. I guess the way you mentioned it sounds like this is discussed often elsewhere. I guess I don't understand why people either disagree or pay no attention to the facts? A UPS works differently than a Pure Sine UPS. If anything no one should use a Modified standard UPS and only use a Pure Sine for everything since the electricity is the same in a Pure Sine as from the wall and a standard UPS is not.I hear you. I'll check the manual tonight. The thread below is an interesting one on this topic. Old, but continues to receive recent posts. I'll respond there:

Surge Supression and Clean Power ??? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6115450&&#post6115450)

Aural, if your UPS states it is Pure Sine then it is either fine or probably not necessary to have the conditioner as well. If it is a standard UPS that doesn't have Pure Sine on it than you are not getting the same electric flow as you would by plugging directly into the wall. That said it is not the same thing and it has been said many times, I guess not here at all, that any of these types of products require Pure Sine UPS or none at all. What more can I say?

I've reviewed what you've written on this thread recently, and I'd like to suggest "what more you can say." Could you spell out carefully and completely just what is likely to happen to a TV or receiver or DVD player that uses power from a non-Pure Sine UPS. Your first post on that today (#4383) doesn't do this, and it sounds a bit like hand-waving.

The problem I (and perhaps others) have with your posts is phrases like "the same electric flow" or "the DC is not exactly the same flow or feed as the AC was" or "the same exact electricity as the AC, except of course it is now DC." You say you're not technical, and these kinds of phrases certainly do back up that claim, since they sound very peculiar to people who are technical. It makes it sound like you might have bought into a marketing line without really understanding what it is that's being sold. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what it sounds like to me.

If you can't explain what bad things are likely to happen to A/V equipment, could you at least post a pointer to an article or a previous post that does so. I'd like to understand this issue a little better.

The tv is not syncing anything. As far as I know there is nothin in a video feed or audio feed over hdmi that tells the 2 different signals where and when they should occur in relation to each other. They would need some kind of timing code that runs on both signals in order to keep them in sync. If that were the case then the tv could just pass the timing code along with the signals when sent to a receiver. The reason they are in sync when over hdmi right into the tv is because they are combined in the same signal so of course its going to be in sync. It leaves the cable box in sync over the same cable and arrives at the same time in the tv and is processed as a whole. If you split video and audio you can no longer rely on that. There is cable speed differences as well as different processing happening (conversions, translations etc) on each signal so of course they "could" get out of sync. Totally relies on the speed of the processors at each end.

I'm totally convinced that its source related when it deals with HD and cable boxes. For example, I was watching local news last night on one of the local channels. The news broadcast was out of sync but the commercials were not. Now someone try and tell me that the tv was converting the commercials differently than the newscast. I very rarely get sync problems on hd or standard tv material. I get a constant sync problem out of my panasonic S97 connected with hdmi to the tv and optical to my processor. Setting delay to 100ms fixes this for every dvd I've tried. But there is no way for me to tell if its the upconversion causing the delay, my processor causing the delay, or the tv causing the delay.

Are there lags? Of course. Is it the tv's fault? I'm not convinced it is. I'm more convinced its the combination of all the components than any one component's fault.


That is exactly correct. As I said in a post a few weeks ago, this is a SYSTEM issue, not a component issue. There are no sync codes in the ATSC stream for video and audio. What the display does not see, it CANNOT fix. I've watched OTA HD broadcasts for more than two years now on a CRT set (all internal) and have seen video/audio sync issues all over the board, but mostly close to on the nose. If the Samsung has no sync issue internally, there is nothing more the set can do.

I was not aware that the set was auto lip / syncing stereo over HDMI.
So you do see lag when you don't do this? For example, if you send
stereo directly to your AV receiver..

If I connect the audio input of the AVR to the output from my SA8500HD, I get a slight echo when listening to both the TV and AVR, but I get 5.1 sound. If the AVR is connect to the output of the TV, I get sound in perfect sync, but it's only in stereo.

It would be a perfect solution i f I could take my audio from the TV, and get 5.1 sound.

Tony, how do you explain the very large numbers of posts all over this forum (and others) during the past days, weeks and months during the past year about lip synch and delay problems with the Samsung HLP models and the newer HLR 67 and 68 and 78 models with DVD players, sat receivers, cable receivers and gaming consoles? Are they all mistaken? Can that many people possibly be wrong about these problems with the Samsungs? Are they all expecting too much? Why are such problems only being reported in any appreciable quantity for Samsungs and hardly at all for any other make of TV? I'm sorry if this sounds like Samsung-bashing for, as you know as well as anybody, I've been an advocate and defender of Samsung TVs during the onslaught of negativity and attacks from certain people. However, if Samsung aren't going to step up to the plate and fix these issues they are going to lose to the competition that don't have such problems.

Not for nothing, but you state, "Why are such problems only being reported in any appreciable quantity for Samsungs and hardly at all for any other make of TV?" This is a Samsung thread. That's why.

I just received my Panasonic S77 DVD player, I hooked it up directly to my 5688 HDTV using an HDMI cable that came with the DVD player.

I went into settings & played around with some adjustments, I set the DVD to display in 1080i.

I then proceeded to test the player with some movies. 1st up was Final Fantasy:Spirits within, PQ doesn't look sharp. I then tried GHOST SHIP, same results. I had this same issue using the Samsung 950 player using HDMI connection.

I am about to test the Panasonic using component cables & see how the PQ comes out. Why do I have the feeling, these new Samsung 1080p HDTVs are having issues with HDMI?
Maybe it's just me.

Anyone else expereincing issues using HDMI connections?

I feel you have a tendency to dismiss everyone else's concerns in your defense of your TV to the extent that you miss their points.
Anyway my point is this...

I referred to HDMI audio connectivity.

I can connect my Panny S97 DVD player via HDMI to my 5078 and get sound through the TV's speakers and DD (bitstream) via digital connection to my A/V receiver without having to change any settings. So, if my wife wants to watch a DVD using the TV's speakers she can do so easily, no need to have to change or disable anything.

If I connect my HR10-250 via HDMI to my 5078 with the HR10-250 configured to record and playback Dolby Digital there is no sound through the TV's speakers. To get sound through the TV's speakers you have to go several menus deep in the HR10-250 to turn off its ability to record and playback Dolby Digital with the result that you don't get DD through the A/D receiver should you want to listen that way.
I prefer to have the HR10-250 configured to always record and playback Dolby Digital so we can choose to listen through the TV speakers or the A/V receiver.
My wife wants to be able to turn on the TV and watch DirecTV programming without having to going several menus deep into the HR10-250 to reconfigure it not to record and playback Dolby Digital.

So, the S97 sends audio over HDMI to the TV's speakers and DD to the A/V receiver but the HR10-250. The Samsung 850 DVD player behaves like the HR10-250 with no audio through the TV speakers when using HDMI unless you change the 850's HDMI audio options.

I don't know whether the problem is with the TV or the HR10-250 (though I can guess which you'll point to ;-) but the point is that it isn't behaving quite the way I'd like it to. I'm sure some people will say that you shouldn't use the TV's speakers but thats not really the point.

I am trying to determine if this a problem for anyone else or if its just me so I can make the best decision whether to return the TV or not. I'm trying to understand the TV's shortcomings and issues without attacking it.


I have the same stb (hr10-250) and I do experience the same problem. I admit its a pain & probably shouldn't exist But for me...I can live with it.

This is my first hdtv (5668) and I am blown away. I'm not sure what detail you are referring to in dark scenes but I have watched many DVD's on my progressive scan panasonic (top of the line vhs/dvd combo) player and many parts almost seem 3D. The picture is so good I really wonder if the Oppo could improve on this. The dvd's viewed are Pirates, Sin City, Monsters inc., tears of the sun and lord of the rings return of the king. All dark scenes seem properly composed to me.

Like you have said, my frame of reference is different than yours as you have the HLM507 to compare it to. Could you try the hr10-250 on your HLM507 & see if the tv speakers work with the hr10 set to dolby?

I have read all these posts and I'm having trouble keeping everything straight, but did anyone try to hook up audio cables from the composite outs on the hr10 to audio in on the tv? Can't remember if this was done or if either the stb or the tv passes this signal.

It is sad that you are not happy with your purchase and I hope it all works out. Sorry for the long post.

[QUOTE=TMSKILZ]QUOTE]

Got my 5688 Mon and the top op the screen does have some play in it.About eighth to a quarter inch.I myself dont see an issue with it.When i push it back it does have some kind of edge back there so it doesnt go any further

I use a HTPC for all of my DVR/DVD needs. With it hooked up to the VGA port, I have never noticed any lip-sync issues (that were not in the source). This makes sense, since the PC is doing all the scaling, and takes care of sending the audio out in sync with the video.

I have also never seen any macroblocking watching any DVD. Including Star Wars II. Image quality is phenomenal!

Setting up a HTPC can be a lot of work. It can also cost a fair amount. At this point I would not want to do it any other way. I highly recommend using a HTPC to drive these TVs. Well worth the cost. Well worth the time.

John

Why do I have the feeling, these new Samsung 1080p HDTVs are having issues with HDMI?
Maybe it's just me. Anyone else expereincing issues using HDMI connections?

I can't speak w.r.t. DVDs over HDMI, but i'm running my HD Cable / PVR (motorola 62-something Phase III) over HDMI and it works fantastically. The HD channels come in nice and sharp, almost *too* sharp on Discovery HD.

I just received my Panasonic S77 DVD player, I hooked it up directly to my 5688 HDTV using an HDMI cable that came with the DVD player.

I went into settings & played around with some adjustments, I set the DVD to display in 1080i.

I then proceeded to test the player with some movies. 1st up was Final Fantasy:Spirits within, PQ doesn't look sharp. I then tried GHOST SHIP, same results. I had this same issue using the Samsung 950 player using HDMI connection.

I am about to test the Panasonic using component cables & see how the PQ comes out. Why do I have the feeling, these new Samsung 1080p HDTVs are having issues with HDMI?
Maybe it's just me.

Anyone else expereincing issues using HDMI connections?

Not me. I've got an Oppo 1080i connection to my 5078 via an Outlaw 990 (DVI-DVI and then DVI-HDMI), and an SA 8300 HD/DVR connected similarly (HDMI-DVI to the Outlaw). I've also got them both connected via component as well, for reasons peculiar to the Outlaw's menu system. There is very little difference in PQ to my untrained eye, but some simple-minded A-B testing makes me think the HDMI is a tiny bit crisper, especially on the local HD broadcasts that our cable company retransmits. We have one local station that does its news in HD, and while the component connection knocks your socks off, the HDMI connection blows them out of the room. Maybe I'm just lucky, but so far, no complaints.

The tv is not syncing anything. As far as I know there is nothin in a video feed or audio feed over hdmi that tells the 2 different signals where and when they should occur in relation to each other. They would need some kind of timing code that runs on both signals in order to keep them in sync. If that were the case then the tv could just pass the timing code along with the signals when sent to a receiver. The reason they are in sync when over hdmi right into the tv is because they are combined in the same signal so of course its going to be in sync. It leaves the cable box in sync over the same cable and arrives at the same time in the tv and is processed as a whole. If you split video and audio you can no longer rely on that. There is cable speed differences as well as different processing happening (conversions, translations etc) on each signal so of course they "could" get out of sync. Totally relies on the speed of the processors at each end.

I'm totally convinced that its source related when it deals with HD and cable boxes. For example, I was watching local news last night on one of the local channels. The news broadcast was out of sync but the commercials were not. Now someone try and tell me that the tv was converting the commercials differently than the newscast. I very rarely get sync problems on hd or standard tv material. I get a constant sync problem out of my panasonic S97 connected with hdmi to the tv and optical to my processor. Setting delay to 100ms fixes this for every dvd I've tried. But there is no way for me to tell if its the upconversion causing the delay, my processor causing the delay, or the tv causing the delay.

Are there lags? Of course. Is it the tv's fault? I'm not convinced it is. I'm more convinced its the combination of all the components than any one component's fault.

Mike, I could be wrong, but, I swear that I would get some lip sync problems (admittedly not often) from my analog directv stb and my analog tv. This would seem to indicate ( in my mind) that something in the directv feed or stb is causing sync problems...maybe mpeg2 decoding?

Would seem to me that no tv's could perfectly sync audio under all conditions.

I agree with Dreamr except if he was referring to Pure Sine UPS, which would by its definition have to have clean power. In other words afaik Pure Sine UPS includes the conditioners and cleaners that are sold without the UPS components. I did see one article mention when Googling that some UPS might not use the battery until there is an outage. In other words check to be sure the UPS is conditioning and using the battery at all times, which I think they should be.

Uh, the battery doesn't do the conditioning...

If you get a UPS with AVR you'll block the spikes and pass a somewhat filtered signal to your equipment during normal use. If there is a power outtage it will supress any surges and flip a circuit breaker. Then and only then should the output of the battery be fed into the equipment. This is where the "pure sine" debate should be taking place.

The power conditioners you recommened are insanely expensive, in my opinion prohibitively so. The Pure AV Battery Backup (which just arrived at my house but I have yet to use) is a much more economical solution but doesn't meet your "pure sine" criterion. I bought it assuming that it contains the same filtering found in the other PureAV power products for the pass through voltage... unfortunately, I cannot find specs to confirm this. It does however have an AVR to help maintain the median voltages and you can be assured that there is some minor noise filtering benefit gained while accomplishing this (I know from electrical engineering graduate school, so Belkin should know as well).

Now for the "pure sine"... well I'm sure they have some loft standards but those 1500 products cannot be worth it, if you run with an approximated sine wave (I suspect that the PureAV unit has decent approximation) your devices will continue to function. However, it is recommended by no one that you just continue watching tv when the power is out... the benefit of these devices is in allowing proper power down... more so then they are ment to filter line noise.

Also, if we just take one minute to think about it... the approximated waves are fine "for computers" according to your sources but not for digital (as implied by HD) TVs? Well, I've designed a DMD chip and can tell you that they are controlled by digital logic the same as inside any computer. Surely there is some sort of powersupply unit within the tv (there's one in your computer, there's one in your dvd player and they are the big bulky things on the power lines for your game systems) to set the digital voltage levels and to create the other voltages for A/D conversions and so on. Any analog circuitry should include plenty of support circuitry and local filtering and noise suppresion on board, it is essential to any design. Thus analog circuit should continue to operate with what might not be a $1500 sine wave. I assume samsung has some fairly competent circuit designers.

Your TV will be fine on a UPS, lineconditioner, both, or just straight out of the wall... its about protection, the likelyhood of you being able to see or hear differences because of your powersupply (unless horrid) is unlikely. Get what you want... if you want the PureAV I know where you can get it pretty cheap online with good shipping rates.

Sorry to all for going off topic, please refer to the other surge thread. I'll let you know if belkin blows up my 5668 when it arrives tomorrow between 11 and 4!!!!

Just received the service manual for the 78 series sets. It clearly shows the chipset in all the 78 series sets and the 5688 set as the xHD3 @.85". This is different then the previously posted xHD4 we all thought. It also show th 5087 set as having an xHD2 chip.

They do. Using HDMI and component.

Also, as mentioned above, using the analog out from the HR10-250 to the DVI Audio (analog) input of the TV doesn't work.

Assuming you have an AVR, have you tried running digital out to the AVR, then bringing an analog "record out" from the AVR back to the analog input on the set?
This doesn't really fix it, but could be a work-around. It would require you to select the appropriate input on the AVR when you watch the TV as well.

With the up/down and left/right, it only allows you to grow the size about 1 inch. Attached is a picture of the screen - sorry for the crooked picture.

I may have replied to this already, but just incase I didn't or you missed it... I had the exact same problem. It was the expensive VGA cable, get a cheap replacement and all should be well.

They do. Using HDMI and component.

Also, as mentioned above, using the analog out from the HR10-250 to the DVI Audio (analog) input of the TV doesn't work.

Probably a dumb question, but did you have the HR10 hooked up to HDMI2 when you tried this?

Unforunately not, I've tried that. It appears that the TV ignores the analog inputs (aka DVI audio for HDMI input #2) when using an HDMI connection. Maybe thats another "issue" that needs to be addressed.

This would be a major problem if it's true. That would mean you can't use a DVI source, only HDMI, and would fly in the face of the "backwards compatible" feature of HDMI.

Kinda defeats the objective of making it easy (and foolproof) for the wife and kid to just watch TV ;)

Yeah, but it's the only thing I could think of. You could just leave the AVR on that input most of the time.

I guess it all depends on how much you like this TV. ;)

I may have replied to this already, but just incase I didn't or you missed it... I had the exact same problem. It was the expensive VGA cable, get a cheap replacement and all should be well.


Looks like that did the trick. I tried another cable and it works now. Thanks for the suggestion and help.

Well, at this point, I'm seriously considering trying out a Mitsubishi 1080p to see if it has any of the same "issues" that are bothering me.

AkaStp: My advice to you at this point would be to list out all the issues you are having with this TV and judge the TV on the seriousness of these issues. Your original post seemed to suggest that your big problem was the lack of detail in dark scenes. But now, the discussion seems to be focussed on the audio situation.

To me, the PQ issue would be most important in deciding whether to keep this TV or not. The audio issue can be worked around either by training the wife and kid or by the other suggestions that you have received. IMHO, of course.

In any case, good luck and let us know how things work out for you.

PS: I do sympathise with you here - I think it is reasonable to expect that most things will be to your satisfaction after spending $3K on a TV! If you are not satisfied, it would perhaps be better to return and buy something else that will satisfy your requirements. But I would make sure that you don't simply have a strong case of "buyer's remorse"!!! :)

Well, I just received my 5668 last Monday and have to say that it's amazing! MNF is a whole new experience.

My problem is that I just had my Comcast Cablecard installed today and am having some problems. In my area (suburb of Detroit) Comcast uses a dual cable system where the channels are split up between two coax cables coming out of the wall. One of the coax cables is screwed into the "cable" or Ant 1 input on the TV and the other is in the "air" or Ant 2 input. This creates problems for several reasons...first it sucks that I have to click between antennas in order to see all of the channels. This is only a problem now because in the past only one of the cables carried almost all of the channels. The other cable just had public access and shopping channels on it, so I never needed to switch over. Well, Comcast decided to send their digital info over the mostly unused public access cable....so now that I've got my kick-butt digital TV I'll need to use both.

The second issue is that it doesn't appear that I'm picking up any channels above 13 on the "air" (or Ant 2) input. It appears that this input is not "cable-ready"??? I remember back with my Sony CRT TV, the menu let you select whether each coax input was "cable" or "air". But it appears that on the Samsung, the Ant 2 is fixed at "air"??

Does anybody else have a dual cable system with a cablecard? Any pointers on what I could/should do? I'm thinking that the set top box might be my only solution because it performs the switching between antennas for you as you scroll through the channels by mapping channels from each of the separate cables to a unique channel on the STB and feeds them out over only one cable to your TV.

Thanks for your help!!

I don't have a DVI source to try with (just sold my Samsung TS360 D* HD receiver) but I would expect that it will work just fine with a DVI source and seperate analog connections as DVI does not carry audio. I'm guessing that the DVI audio input (corresponding to HDMI input #2) is being ignored for a true HDMI connection.

I have a DishNetwork 921 HD PVR with a DVI cable connected to HDMI on HDMI1. I have sound via optical imput into my A/V Reciever.

Sure enough, I dropped it back to the original setting of 48, and the picture still looked fantastic. So apparently my 5078 is not keeping or using its adjusted settings until I mess with them a little ... they're not "sticking." Before I mess with the settings, there isn't enough shadow detail. Once I do, the picture looks great.

I have this problem also. For me, it happens after switching sources via the 'Source' button on the remote.

An easy way to duplicate this is to pop in DVE (or maybe the THX Optimizer if you don't have DVE or similar), and calibrate brightness with the PLUGE pattern. Switch to another input then back, and the settings are different (for me, much too dark, and a very noticeable difference). Changing any of the display settings will 'pop' things back to how they were set before. Usually I swap the mode from Movie to something else then back--which resets things nicely--to avoid messing with any of the calibrated settings.

Can anyone else confirm this problem? Here are my current inputs, in case this is related to particular sources:

HDMI1: Pioneer DV-59AVi DVD Player
HDMI2/DVI: OPPO DV971H DVD Player (DVI)
ANT 1 IN (CABLE): Basic cable, no box (analog + DTV, using internal tuner)

I have Gamma set to 0 in the SM, no other changes there. Using Movie mode in display settings. This happened with the original Gamma of 2, and happens in other display 'modes' for me (just tried Custom, same thing).

[QUOTE=TMSKILZ]QUOTE]

Got my 5688 Mon and the top op the screen does have some play in it.About eighth to a quarter inch.I myself dont see an issue with it.When i push it back it does have some kind of edge back there so it doesnt go any further

I hear that, but you never know the long term effects of the screen being like that!

Not me. I've got an Oppo 1080i connection to my 5078 via an Outlaw 990 (DVI-DVI and then DVI-HDMI), and an SA 8300 HD/DVR connected similarly (HDMI-DVI to the Outlaw). I've also got them both connected via component as well, for reasons peculiar to the Outlaw's menu system. There is very little difference in PQ to my untrained eye, but some simple-minded A-B testing makes me think the HDMI is a tiny bit crisper, especially on the local HD broadcasts that our cable company retransmits. We have one local station that does its news in HD, and while the component connection knocks your socks off, the HDMI connection blows them out of the room. Maybe I'm just lucky, but so far, no complaints.

I'm going to try a different HDMI cable. See if it makes a difference.
Is there anything in the menu or settings on the SA8300HD/DVR that I need to access or adjust to make it work with an HDMI connection.

I'd like to be able to say that I disagree with you but unfortunately I don't. I have to admit to being rather disappointed with my 5078, its proving to be a lot more hassle than I would have expected. My basis for comparison is a 3 year old Samsung HLM507 which has always produced a great picture so the incremental difference is not as great as it is for those folks for which this would be their first HDTV. I had expected better of a TV that has an MSRP of $3800. I had high hopes. Aside from any PQ issues, I am finding the HDMI audio connectivity and lip synch thru A/V receiver problems to be a real PITA! Such problems should simply not still exist as they were problems in the preceding HLPxx63 models and should have been fixed by now. PQ problems may or may not be fixable by calibration. I'm not sure about the ability to display SD sources well (my HLM507 does a more acceptable job with SD). Bottom line is that I'm coming to the conclusion that this 1080p TV is not mature enough for my tastes right now and I may be better off waiting a while longer and/or reconsidering other models like the Mits and Toshiba 1080p TVs or the Sony SXRD or just another good 720p set.

If I had an HLM, I'd be pretty tempted to wait another year or so. A lot of the issues I'm hearing about with 1080p sets in general seem like the type of things that would hopefully be eliminated with a new model year.

Here is a few pics of screen with WM Center 2005.I just hooked it up and had no overscan and 1:1 pixels.The pictures does no justice of how fabulous this picture really is.Its vibrant ,clear. i will post more when i get my D* HD DVR Tivo thurs.
I was wondering about why people were getting overscan so i had a hunch.Correct me if im wrong.I did a measurement of my screen and the ratio came out to 1.78032:1 and 16:9 is 1.78.I got the spec sheets for the 50xx,56xx,61xx and the 5087 and the ratio came out to be below 1.78.
50xx = to 1.77823
56xx = to 1.778748
6175 = to 1.777741
5087 = to 11768448
RE: 5087 = to 1.768448
So the screens are smaller so would that cause the over scan?And could it be corrected with a calibration.

One or two others in this thread mentioned some bizarre behavior similar to the following effect a week or two ago ... I need to look up their posts ... in the meantime, here's an entertaining little quirk of my 5078 that I finally noticed last night:

While watching Pirates of the Caribbean last night on my Sony S975V (1080i over HDMI), I was not exactly happy with shadow detail. Was trying to see a change in PQ by alternately turning the player's Black Level setting on and off, to little or no effect.

Then I went into my 5078's Movie mode settings and bumped the brightness one notch up from 48 to 49. As soon as I did that, there was a SIGNIFICANT improvement in picture quality ... shadow detail in particular was greatly improved. This was a degree of improvement that would never be represented by a single bump in the brightness setting.

Sure enough, I dropped it back to the original setting of 48, and the picture still looked fantastic. So apparently my 5078 is not keeping or using its adjusted settings until I mess with them a little ... they're not "sticking." Before I mess with the settings, there isn't enough shadow detail. Once I do, the picture looks great.

Tonight I'll see if this behavior is repeatable on the same input and all other inputs I'm using. Not that I want it to happen again, but I'd rather have a much better picture than not ... :rolleyes: An "entertaining" quirk that happens every time will quickly become an annoying one.
It was me and I tried it my 5068 and SS950. I went from 45 to 65 and while I did pick up some more detail it was at the expense of washing out the picture. Even still the black blotches were there, just smaller in scale.

Is anyone finding that these TVs produce great blacks but seem to be lacking the ability to show detail in dark areas very well? With my HR10-250 connected via HDMI there is little to no detail in dark areas, they appear as pools of black. I've tried Dynamic, Standard, Movie and Custom picture modes and no amount of adjusting Contrast and Brightness will bring out the detail in dark areas.
By comparison, my aging HLM507 produces much more detail in dark areas (but the blacks aren't quite as good).
I noticed this last night during Las Vegas and CSI_Miami. I replayed some representative scenes on both TVs.
With my SS 950 via HDMI at 1080i I would absolutely agree with your observations. With my old Sony via component at 480i I would not. The older player produces excellent blacks and shadow details. Sin City was fabulous on the set.

So it appears the set is capable, what feeds it and how seems to make a big difference. Anyone who is on the fence for a new DVD player may want to wait until we get more feedback from those with the various players like the work that UCSB did.

I have this problem also. For me, it happens after switching sources via the 'Source' button on the remote.

An easy way to duplicate this is to pop in DVE (or maybe the THX Optimizer if you don't have DVE or similar), and calibrate brightness with the PLUGE pattern. Switch to another input then back, and the settings are different (for me, much too dark, and a very noticeable difference). Changing any of the display settings will 'pop' things back to how they were set before. Usually I swap the mode from Movie to something else then back--which resets things nicely--to avoid messing with any of the calibrated settings.

Can anyone else confirm this problem? Here are my current inputs, in case this is related to particular sources:

HDMI1: Pioneer DV-59AVi DVD Player
HDMI2/DVI: OPPO DV971H DVD Player (DVI)
ANT 1 IN (CABLE): Basic cable, no box (analog + DTV, using internal tuner)

I have Gamma set to 0 in the SM, no other changes there. Using Movie mode in display settings. This happened with the original Gamma of 2, and happens in other display 'modes' for me (just tried Custom, same thing).

You might want to read my possible explanation of what is going on with these changes in apparent settings here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6116797&&#post6116797

I don't have a DVI source to try with (just sold my Samsung TS360 D* HD receiver) but I would expect that it will work just fine with a DVI source and seperate analog connections as DVI does not carry audio. I'm guessing that the DVI audio input (corresponding to HDMI input #2) is being ignored for a true HDMI connection.Ok, you can laugh with me, just not at me ... I'm clearly about to make my most bass-ackwards suggestion to date:

Is there a way ... :rolleyes: ... to trick the tv into thinking you're connecting a DVI device? Meaning, is there a way you can kill the audio signal in the HDMI cable through creative use of cabling and/or adapters? Run an HDMI cable from your HR10-250 into an HDMI>DVI adapter, then run a DVI>HDMI cable from the adapter into the tv.

I can't even begin to count the number of ways that suggestion sounds like a bad idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. ;)

It was me and I tried it my 5068 and SS950. I went from 45 to 65 and while I did pick up some more detail it was at the expense of washing out the picture. Even still the black blotches were there, just smaller in scale.I'll have more time to discuss this again tomorrow night, just wanted to say thanks for speaking up again.

Is there anything in the menu or settings on the SA8300HD/DVR that I need to access or adjust to make it work with an HDMI connection.My SA8300HD is running the Passport software, so the hookup manual's front panel access procedure for getting into the setup menus are disabled (thanks to Time Warner). However, I can still use the remote:

1) Settings button brings up the basic Settings screen.
2) Hit the A (yellow triangle) button (I think) for More Settings.
3) Find the output listing (can't remember exact name). You can toggle on/off any or all of the following:

480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i

Turning them all on will make the player output the signal in its original form -- use this if you want the tv to do the scaling instead of the 8300HD. Turning only 1080i on will make the player upconvert any other signal to 1080i -- use this if you can't stand the amount of time it takes for your tv to switch channels in the first option.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

I am sort of double posting this, so I am sorry if it offends you.

I asked this in the Powerbuy thread, but I want to ask here as well.

Has any owner that got their TV from the powerbuy gotten a paper invoice? It appears to be very important for the warranty service and registration.

For more, please read my posting in the powerbuy thread.

Thanks.

You might want to read my possible explanation of what is going on with these changes in apparent settings here:
From that thread: Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing: when in DVE and manually adjusting DVD player settings, they appear to move after you are finished adjusting them. For example, if you are adjusting brightness and it seems right, but then doesn't when you step back one level in players menu.

I'm familiar with the effect you're describing, but I mean something different.

Say I put in DVE and calibrate brightness with the PLUGE pattern. I get the blacks where I want them. Take out DVE, put in and watch an entire movie, looks great, no problems. But if I switch inputs (via Source on the remote, or in the menu) to TV, another player, etc, then back to the original DVE-calibrated DVD source, the displayed image is incorrect, very visibly darker than the image calibrated on the same input/source. Actually any source change appears to cause this; for instance I just had DVE PLUGE in the Pioneer, and the THX Optimizer grayscale on the OPPO. Both inputs' brightness settings are calibrated where I want them. Switch from OK Pioneer to the OPPO, and its settings are wrong, and vice-versa: switch back, and the Pioneer is wrong too. Same effect going to/from any of the other inputs.

I don't need to recalibrate anything, I just need to make a change (any change) in the picture settings of the TV, and things visibly switch back to where they were set for that input (a large jump in brightness). I've become quite speedy at popping into the picture settings, making/unmaking a minor change, then exiting the menu to fix things. I can reproduce this 100% of the time, and it seems just like what calbert described previously.

I am sort of double posting this, so I am sorry if it offends you.

I asked this in the Powerbuy thread, but I want to ask here as well.

Has any owner that got their TV from the powerbuy gotten a paper invoice? It appears to be very important for the warranty service and registration.

For more, please read my posting in the powerbuy thread.

Thanks.

If you go to order status on the AVS web site you will find a copy
of your invoice - print it out and you have a paper invoice :-)

You can print out an invoice from TVA but my invoice has a june 6th date. I assume if I have that along with the SEKO invoice showing the date it was delivered , that those two pieces of paper should be enough to prove I purchased the TV and when I received it.

I just received my Panasonic S77 DVD player, I hooked it up directly to my 5688 HDTV using an HDMI cable that came with the DVD player.

I went into settings & played around with some adjustments, I set the DVD to display in 1080i.

I then proceeded to test the player with some movies. 1st up was Final Fantasy:Spirits within, PQ doesn't look sharp. I then tried GHOST SHIP, same results. I had this same issue using the Samsung 950 player using HDMI connection.

I am about to test the Panasonic using component cables & see how the PQ comes out. Why do I have the feeling, these new Samsung 1080p HDTVs are having issues with HDMI?
Maybe it's just me.

Anyone else expereincing issues using HDMI connections?
Well maybe. I have not tried the SS HD950 via component since that is impossible with my setup. I will leave that to someone else. But so far it sucks via HDMI compared to another player via component. I tried all 3 resolutions too.

The tv is not syncing anything. As far as I know there is nothin in a video feed or audio feed over hdmi that tells the 2 different signals where and when they should occur in relation to each other. They would need some kind of timing code that runs on both signals in order to keep them in sync. ...
Mike and Others: (not a dig comment)
My experience and others lately would disagree with the statement that the TV is not keeping the two signals in synch. I am not an expert on HDMI and there certainly may be no protocol for keeping audio and video in synch, but that does not preclude SS or any other manufacture from doing so with a proprietary scheme.

How else can you explain the scenario reported here by me and others where a feed from a DVD player via HDMI(video to TV and audio direct to AVR) has a synch delay but the same player outputting PCM via HDMI to the TV and then from the TV to the AVR has no synch delay? Since the paths are longer in the second scenario one would expect the delay here but in fact it is not there implying that somehow the TV is delaying its processing of the audio signal knowing its going to take x amount of time or some other algorithm to keep the two in synch.

Uh, the battery doesn't do the conditioning...

If you get a UPS with AVR you'll block the spikes and pass a somewhat filtered signal to your equipment during normal use. If there is a power outtage it will supress any surges and flip a circuit breaker. Then and only then should the output of the battery be fed into the equipment. This is where the "pure sine" debate should be taking place.

The power conditioners you recommened are insanely expensive, in my opinion prohibitively so. The Pure AV Battery Backup (which just arrived at my house but I have yet to use) is a much more economical solution but doesn't meet your "pure sine" criterion. I bought it assuming that it contains the same filtering found in the other PureAV power products for the pass through voltage... unfortunately, I cannot find specs to confirm this. It does however have an AVR to help maintain the median voltages and you can be assured that there is some minor noise filtering benefit gained while accomplishing this (I know from electrical engineering graduate school, so Belkin should know as well).

Now for the "pure sine"... well I'm sure they have some loft standards but those 1500 products cannot be worth it, if you run with an approximated sine wave (I suspect that the PureAV unit has decent approximation) your devices will continue to function. However, it is recommended by no one that you just continue watching tv when the power is out... the benefit of these devices is in allowing proper power down... more so then they are ment to filter line noise.

Also, if we just take one minute to think about it... the approximated waves are fine "for computers" according to your sources but not for digital (as implied by HD) TVs? Well, I've designed a DMD chip and can tell you that they are controlled by digital logic the same as inside any computer. Surely there is some sort of powersupply unit within the tv (there's one in your computer, there's one in your dvd player and they are the big bulky things on the power lines for your game systems) to set the digital voltage levels and to create the other voltages for A/D conversions and so on. Any analog circuitry should include plenty of support circuitry and local filtering and noise suppresion on board, it is essential to any design. Thus analog circuit should continue to operate with what might not be a $1500 sine wave. I assume samsung has some fairly competent circuit designers.

Your TV will be fine on a UPS, lineconditioner, both, or just straight out of the wall... its about protection, the likelyhood of you being able to see or hear differences because of your powersupply (unless horrid) is unlikely. Get what you want... if you want the PureAV I know where you can get it pretty cheap online with good shipping rates.

Sorry to all for going off topic, please refer to the other surge thread. I'll let you know if belkin blows up my 5668 when it arrives tomorrow between 11 and 4!!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You can print out an invoice from TVA but my invoice has a june 6th date. I assume if I have that along with the SEKO invoice showing the date it was delivered , that those two pieces of paper should be enough to prove I purchased the TV and when I received it.

I would save the invoice, the credit card receipt ( make sure these first two match ), and the delivery receipt...

Yes, I was careful to make sure of this.
What about using a DVI to HDMI cable backwards so you through away the audio portion of the HDMI signal? Maybe then the TV will give up negociating with the STB via HDMI for audio thinking it does not support it.

Ok, you can laugh with me, just not at me ... I'm clearly about to make my most bass-ackwards suggestion to date:

Is there a way ... :rolleyes: ... to trick the tv into thinking you're connecting a DVI device? Meaning, is there a way you can kill the audio signal in the HDMI cable through creative use of cabling and/or adapters? Run an HDMI cable from your HR10-250 into an HDMI>DVI adapter, then run a DVI>HDMI cable from the adapter into the tv.

I can't even begin to count the number of ways that suggestion sounds like a bad idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. ;)
Rats. I posted the same idea way later. I think yours is more clear. I just suggested he get a DVI cable in the middle to throw away the HDMI audio portion.

From that thread:

I'm familiar with the effect you're describing, but I mean something different.

Say I put in DVE and calibrate brightness with the PLUGE pattern. I get the blacks where I want them. Take out DVE, put in and watch an entire movie, looks great, no problems. But if I switch inputs (via Source on the remote, or in the menu) to TV, another player, etc, then back to the original DVE-calibrated DVD source, the displayed image is incorrect, very visibly darker than the image calibrated on the same input/source. Actually any source change appears to cause this; for instance I just had DVE PLUGE in the Pioneer, and the THX Optimizer grayscale on the OPPO. Both inputs' brightness settings are calibrated where I want them. Switch from OK Pioneer to the OPPO, and its settings are wrong, and vice-versa: switch back, and the Pioneer is wrong too. Same effect going to/from any of the other inputs.

I don't need to recalibrate anything, I just need to make a change (any change) in the picture settings of the TV, and things visibly switch back to where they were set for that input (a large jump in brightness). I've become quite speedy at popping into the picture settings, making/unmaking a minor change, then exiting the menu to fix things. I can reproduce this 100% of the time, and it seems just like what calbert described previously.Good explanation, that's exactly what I'm seeing. It's repeatable for me as well.

Rats. I posted the same idea way later. I think yours is more clear. I just suggested he get a DVI cable in the middle to throw away the HDMI audio portion.Nice to see I'm not the only brilliant one here ... ;) I wonder if this idea would violate some HDCP handshaking rules? But it's such a gloriously simple solution ...

Nice to see I'm not the only brilliant one here ... ;) I wonder if this idea would violate some HDCP handshaking rules? But it's such a gloriously simple solution ...


How is the built in lip synch test going :-)

Good explanation, that's exactly what I'm seeing. It's repeatable for me as well.

Well, that's at least 3 of us that are seeing this consistently. I called samsung to report it but I may start nagging them more now that I know it's not just me going crazy. In the mean time, I may have to program a macro to toggle a setting so I get consistent brightness.

I've searched around for info on DLP pincushion in general. I'm wondering how the pincushion on my 6168 compares with others. Mine's noticeable in 16:9 menus (e.g. TV Guide), tables like sports stats or similar blocks or grids in regular programming, and any 4:3 content which obviously exposes lines on the sides, making the bowing readily visible. Most 16:9 content doesn't expose it, unless someone's standing next to a door in a closeup or something. Or maybe a head-on architectural shot.

Anyway, here's a few snapshots of my set with some 16:9 and 4:3 content onscreen, for comparison. The lens used has no distortion at the focal lengths used, so the bowing of the geometry is pretty accurate to what I see in person. These shots are only meant to show pincushion and are not accurate in color, exposure, or anything else.

http://fatlard.home.comcast.net/16x9_Resolution1.jpg
http://fatlard.home.comcast.net/16x9_Resolution2.jpg
http://fatlard.home.comcast.net/16x9_Anamorphic_Geometry.jpg
http://fatlard.home.comcast.net/16x9_Color_Bars.jpg
http://fatlard.home.comcast.net/16x9_Percent_Overscan.jpg
http://fatlard.home.comcast.net/16x9_TV_Guide.jpg
http://fatlard.home.comcast.net/4x3_Cable1.jpg
http://fatlard.home.comcast.net/4x3_Cable2.jpg