I've run into a bit of an issue here and I'm hoping other Samsung 1080P owners can help me out.

Here's the reader's digest version: I purchased an Onkyo DV-SP1000 DVD player and it appeared the player would not pass blacker-than-black via HDMI. After some experimenting, I found that by significantly increasing the player's brightness (from 0 reference to +4 or +5) I could get blacker-than-black bars on the DVE black level pluge. I also discovered that the BTB bar would show up with DNIe demo ON (see attached pic.), but only on the DNIe OFF side of the screen.
I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of using the player with brightness cranked up or using component out.

This is the thread I started in the DVD Player forum while troubleshooting this issue if any of you would like full details: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=576176

Here are my questions:
1) What is the general experience of other Sammy 1080P owners getting BTB to pass over HDMI with other players?
2) Has anyone been able to pass BTB over HDMI without adjusting your players video controls?
3) Would anyone be willing to try replicating this situation with your players and Samsung display?

I've run into a bit of an issue here and I'm hoping other Samsung 1080P owners can help me out.

Here's the reader's digest version: I purchased an Onkyo DV-SP1000 DVD player and it appeared the player would not pass blacker-than-black via HDMI. After some experimenting, I found that by significantly increasing the player's brightness (from 0 reference to +4 or +5) I could get blacker-than-black bars on the DVE black level pluge. I also discovered that the BTB bar would show up with DNIe demo ON (see attached pic.), but only on the DNIe OFF side of the screen.
I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of using the player with brightness cranked up or using component out.

This is the thread I started in the DVD Player forum while troubleshooting this issue if any of you would like full details: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=576176

Here are my questions:
1) What is the general experience of other Sammy 1080P owners getting BTB to pass over HDMI with other players?
2) Has anyone been able to pass BTB over HDMI without adjusting your players video controls?
3) Would anyone be willing to try replicating this situation with your players and Samsung display?

If your player is outputting a BTB signal and it is correctly set, than you will not be able to see the third bar. The fact that you can see the third bar in the DNIe mode leads me to believe that your player is putting out a balanced BTB signal and you may be OK.

Specific answers:
1) If the player supports BTB, it is easy to set it if you are in the right PICTURE MODE. Sometimes lowering contrast in player will allow you to lower brightness and still pass BTB. ALWAYS TRY TO USE THE PLAYERS DEFAULT SETTING IF THEY ARE PASSING BTB.

2) Yes. For example, on the Sony DVP-NS975V it supports BTB in two standard settings: Cinema 1 and Cinema 2 and there are not adjustments to these presets.

3) Go to Secrets of Home Theater and look up your player and the PICTURE MODE you are using. If it says you are passing BTB, than you are.

Cable guy just finished hooking up my hdtv cable box about 45 min ago. When he put HBO HD on for the first time my jaw dropped. He was surpised as well. We were watching it for a bit, starsky and hutch was playing, and he started asking me about the tv and where i got it from. I told him about TVAuthority and how highly recommended they come.

I have to say that the HD channels are amazing. I havent watched too much of anything else just yet, but i did put mtv on for a bit and it looked very nice as well. Im wondering if i should use 4:3 though on DTV or SD channels so that the picture doesnt look a bit stretched. How do most of you watch normal cable ?

My one question / concern. I noticed that the cable box is a Pioneer HDTV cable box. Its not the SA 8300HD DVR that everyone has been mentioning. I do have Time Warner Cable, and i asked the cable guy about it. He told me that they probably got the order mixed up and just sent me the hdtv not the dvr. I am curious what benefits does the 8300hd have over this pioneer box. This box does not have hdmi out. only component and dvi. I believe the 8300 has hdmi.

Are there any benefits to having the 8300 dvr other then hdmi out ? are there more setup options that i can play with for the picture detail / aspect ratio of channels that would be good to have ?

I dont think the HD picture can get any better then this, but maybe the 8300 can improve the SD or DTV channels some how ? i wish i wasnt such a newb, any help would be highly appreciated.

Only other gripe i have is that sometimes in darker scenes, there isnt much detail in the black areas. Is there a way to fix this ? or improve it so i can see more detail in black areas ?

My one question / concern. I noticed that the cable box is a Pioneer HDTV cable box. Its not the SA 8300HD DVR that everyone has been mentioning. I do have Time Warner Cable, and i asked the cable guy about it. He told me that they probably got the order mixed up and just sent me the hdtv not the dvr. I am curious what benefits does the 8300hd have over this pioneer box. This box does not have hdmi out. only component and dvi. I believe the 8300 has hdmi.

Are there any benefits to having the 8300 dvr other then hdmi out ? are there more setup options that i can play with for the picture detail / aspect ratio of channels that would be good to have


Arqos --

The 8300HD is a Digital Video Recorder, not a mere set top box. In addition to having all the functions of a set top box, it can record and play back both SD and HD programs. It has some of the key functions found on VCRs, including PAUSE and REWIND (for both recorded and live programs) and FAST FORWARD (for recorded programs). It has 2 tuners, enabling the user to record 2 programs simultaneously, record 1 program while watching another program and record 2 programs while simultaneously watching a previously-recorded program. It does have an HDMI video/audio output jack. Some of the other features of the DVR depend upon which of 2 possible operating systems it's running (Pioneer Passport or SARA).

Got a question for those who hook up their PCs to the DLP: Do most video cards have a VGA out port? If they do will the card display the output to both the monitor and the TV at the same time? Or do I have to buy a video splitter and run the card output to there and then run one cable to the monitor and one to the TV. Thanks in advance.

Arqos --

The 8300HD is a Digital Video Recorder, not a mere set top box. In addition to having all the functions of a set top box, it can record and play back both SD and HD programs. It has some of the key functions found on VCRs, including PAUSE and REWIND (for both recorded and live programs) and FAST FORWARD (for recorded programs). It has 2 tuners, enabling the user to record 2 programs simultaneously, record 1 program while watching another program and record 2 programs while simultaneously watching a previously-recorded program. It does have an HDMI video/audio output jack. Some of the other features of the DVR depend upon which of 2 possible operating systems it's running (Pioneer Passport or SARA).

Thanks for the Replay Manatus.

I am aware that the DVR is a recorder and am fully aware of the benefits of being able to record the programs. I am not really sure if i would use the recording function much, my main concern is PQ and additional settings that can help with PQ on the 8300. The cable boxes i have now use Passport system, im not sure if the DVR would use the same or change depending on the box itself or the cable company.

Would i benefit from hdmi ? is the picture quality better then component ?

Got a question for those who hook up their PCs to the DLP: Do most video cards have a VGA out port?For practical purposes they all do.

If they do will the card display the output to both the monitor and the TV at the same time? Or do I have to buy a video splitter and run the card output to there and then run one cable to the monitor and one to the TV. A graphics card can only do one resolution for each output port. If it works one of the two will not have a good resolution.

There are mid to high end graphics cards with two or more outputs and drivers that can handle a monitor and a TV at the same time with different resolutions. Check out the Home Theater Computers forum for more details.

Would i benefit from hdmi ? is the picture quality better then component ?If you have a DVI output on your STB now it will do exactly the same quality for video that you would get from HDMI. In that case you would route your audio to either the TV or A/V receiver the same way you do with component. To do that you would need a HDMI cable with a DVI connector on one end. That's how my STB is connected. I use a digital connection for the audio between my A/V receiver and the STB.

If your player is outputting a BTB signal and it is correctly set, than you will not be able to see the third bar. The fact that you can see the third bar in the DNIe mode leads me to believe that your player is putting out a balanced BTB signal and you may be OK.

Specific answers:
1) If the player supports BTB, it is easy to set it if you are in the right PICTURE MODE. Sometimes lowering contrast in player will allow you to lower brightness and still pass BTB. ALWAYS TRY TO USE THE PLAYERS DEFAULT SETTING IF THEY ARE PASSING BTB.

2) Yes. For example, on the Sony DVP-NS975V it supports BTB in two standard settings: Cinema 1 and Cinema 2 and there are not adjustments to these presets.

3) Go to Secrets of Home Theater and look up your player and the PICTURE MODE you are using. If it says you are passing BTB, than you are.


Thank you for your response UCSB.

1) The Onkyo SP1000 does not have presets like cinema/movie, enhanced, normal, etc. It simply has three user configurable presets (1, 2 & 3) that have all options default to "0" (yes, all of the presets have the same default values). My problem is that the player is obviously passing BTB through HDMI, as Samsung's DNIe demo and menu overlays prove, but the TV cannot display it without increasing the players brightness to extremes. Adjusting the TV's contrast & brightness will not show the BTB bars without the player being adjusted. I prefer to use a player's default video control settings and make all of the adjustments on the TV. My goal is to be able to see BTB on the TV without making any adjustments on the player - although this may not be possible.

2) Does the Sony 975 show the picture control levels (contrast, brightness, etc.) for each preset? The reason I ask is the presets that do pass BTB may have the brightness & contrast turned up. Unfortunately, when I increase my players brightness to the point that I can calibrate black level on the TV the picture becomes distorted - similar to blooming on a CRT.

3) I actually checked Secrets review of this Onkyo before I purchased it, and Kris was able to pass BTB over HDMI for his review. Actually, the Secrets review was factored into my decision to purchase this model. And my player DOES pass BTB over HDMI, but the TV will not display it without ridiculous output levels from the player. BTW, BTB works as expected over component.

UCSB, are you saying that the players you have used with your HLR are able to properly pass BTB over HDMI just by changing to the proper preset? If so, I think I need to get my hands on a known working player (like the Sony appears to be) and run an AB test.

My goal is to be able to see BTB on the TV without making any adjustments on the player - although this may not be possible.




In the OPPO thread everyone is saying they are setting their brightness to +3 to +5 and they are passing BNB with no bad side effects. I cannot check this have my OPPO but no TV yet.

Jeff

I haven't looked to see if there is a SP1000 owners thread over in the DVD players area, but if there is you can often find excellent information there.

Thank you for your response UCSB.

1) The Onkyo SP1000 does not have presets like cinema/movie, enhanced, normal, etc. It simply has three user configurable presets (1, 2 & 3) that have all options default to "0" (yes, all of the presets have the same default values). My problem is that the player is obviously passing BTB through HDMI, as Samsung's DNIe demo and menu overlays prove, but the TV cannot display it without increasing the players brightness to extremes. Adjusting the TV's contrast & brightness will not show the BTB bars without the player being adjusted. I prefer to use a player's default video control settings and make all of the adjustments on the TV. My goal is to be able to see BTB on the TV without making any adjustments on the player - although this may not be possible.
I have been testing the Sony DVP-NS975, OPPO 971, Panasonic S97, and Samsung 950. Each player takes a different approach to configuration, so I can't comment on the specifics of the SP1000. But, I think I know what is going on and I will try to illustrate that with some examples below.

On the Sony 975, there are six preset viewing modes (normal, dynamic 1, dynamic 2, cinema 1, cinema 2, and manual). Manual is the only mode that you can change and use your own manual settings. BUT, manual, cinema1, and cinema 2 all pass BTB (normal, dynamic 1, and dynamic 2 don't). Let me use cinema 1 as an example. It can't be changed. If you display DVE on the player (using cinema 1) and try to set BTB on the TV, you can't. The third set of bars will not be visible. This is because the player has already (preset) black level accurately so the third set of bars is not visible. Nothing that you do on the TV side will bring them back. But, if you set BTB in the manual setting and then compare that result to cinema1 you will see that they are the same. The bottom line is that if your SP1000 is set to a mode, cinema/movie, that is passing BTB it is there and does not need any adjustment.

If you want to set BTB manually, so you can compare it to your viewing mode presets, start with a viewing mode (normal/manual/custom/user?) that is available for user manual settings. Set your Samsung TV to it's picture mode defaults. Try to set brightness on the player. Sometimes you have to go higher than you think you should. This can be because the Samsung has a dynamic iris and the menus that you have displayed on the screen will affect the black level setting. Exit all menus and see what happens, you can usually step back several settings. If brightness has to be set to high, adjust other settings such as contrast (try lowering it), until brightness and contrast are in balance and the player is set up correctly for BTB.

2) Does the Sony 975 show the picture control levels (contrast, brightness, etc.) for each preset? The reason I ask is the presets that do pass BTB may have the brightness & contrast turned up. Unfortunately, when I increase my players brightness to the point that I can calibrate black level on the TV the picture becomes distorted - similar to blooming on a CRT.
The 975 presets can not be changed, but they do not appear to be turned way up. But, on the manual settings I feel that lowering picture (contrast) allows me to have a lower brightness setting and more detail in dark scenes. But, I am still experimenting with this. My current thinking is that if there is a preset on the player that is correct, such as cinema 1 and cinema 2 on the 975, then you are generally better off using those than trying to adjust the manual setting.

3) I actually checked Secrets review of this Onkyo before I purchased it, and Kris was able to pass BTB over HDMI for his review. Actually, the Secrets review was factored into my decision to purchase this model. And my player DOES pass BTB over HDMI, but the TV will not display it without ridiculous output levels from the player. BTW, BTB works as expected over component.
Usually in Secrets they give the viewing mode that is associated with the test results, such as cinema. Plus, they don't give the level of the players firmware associated with their tests. Every player that I tested did not match the Secrets review details, so you need to be a little careful. I guess if you are SURE you are working with a viewing mode that can be adjusted manually (and can retain the settings) and that you are making the correct adjustments (balance between contrast and brightness), then there could be a problem with the HDMI output. Perhaps you should call tech support to also rule out known problems, firmware upgrades and other issues.

UCSB, are you saying that the players you have used with your HLR are able to properly pass BTB over HDMI just by changing to the proper preset? If so, I think I need to get my hands on a known working player (like the Sony appears to be) and run an AB test.
Yes ... on the Sony and Panasonic selecting the RIGHT preset will give you the best results. I don't think you need to get another player into the setup if you can set the SP1000 via component ... just use that as your baseline until you can find a preset over HDMI and then use the HDMI preset to compare with your manual settings.

Following up on what Joe mentioned earlier about "blocking" on programs from Discovery HD. I have noticed the same thing on my new HLR5078 with Discovery HD and a few other channels from DirecTV. Sitting 12' away from this 50" TV the picture looks a bit fuzzy or out-of-focus during subject motion, camera movement, complex material (such as water, trees, foliage, stonefish, etc) or scene changes. Moving closer to 4-6' it becomes obvious that blocking is occurring. I can understand how this would be much more obvious on a 67" TV.
Note: My HLM507 does NOT exhibit this.

I have noticed this on other channels also, such as ESPN HD, Universal HD and HDNet Movies which are not the best quality HD from DirecTV. Haven't scrutinized thse or HBO-HD or Showtime-HD yet to see if they are also affected. Discovery HD seems to be the worst though, which is surprising since it tends to be the reference quality for demoing HDTVs in stores. HDNet from DirecTV and HD channels received via OTA do not seem to be afflicted to the same extent because they are better quality.

My guess would be that this TV is having a problem with anything less than near-perfect HD sources and is blocking on such source material. However, it looks great with good HD sources (except DVD - see below).

I first noticed that "blockiness" on the HLP series of sets. My original HLM did not display such blockiness. I always wondered if it had something to do with wobulation.

I had a Samsung tech here to look at my pincushioning and video noise in 4:3 viewing at the edge of the picture. Looks like TV #2 gets a new light engine. Hopefully have it by Tuesday. TV is awesome with HD and still good with SD but the noise is annoying. As well, the pincushioning is anoying with a ticker strolling by.

WOW 18 pages of posting since I left for Vacation on 8/26...So has anybody else received their 6768's yet...and if you have...how do you like it...how about a review...any problems?
I only got to watch my set for 10 hours before we left...it's been a long week.

Just got my 6168 up and running today--I'm very pleased with it. I don't yet have HD set up from Comcast cable card (to be installed tomorrow). Here are a few initial observations:

1) SD channels look much better on this display compared to 720p displays. My wife even noticed the improvement. IMHO SD is very "watchable" on these TVs.

2) I've used my Buffalo Link Theater media player to play back 1080p content that I downloaded (WMV and AVI/DIVX files). These files are truly incredible. My family was mesmerized by these movie clips (many were previews of IMAX movies). This gave us a rough idea of what we'll see once we get the cable card installed and get some HD content via cable.

3) I agree with many of the posters here is that "movie" mode is much better than "standard" for general viewing in a relatively dark area. It felt like standard was just too intense, and it was actually tiring to watch after a while.

4) After many months of wiggling my eyes around in Best Buys and Ultimate Electronics stores, I was able to see my first rainbows on the sets in my house. The only way I could do it was to quickly look across the screen while there were primarily black and white (or at least light areas with dark contrasts) on the screen. Until I was able to do this, I was a bit concerned about the rainbows. After tonight, I feel much better about them, at least in my case, since it took so much work to get them to appear. I have no qualms about rainbows since they were so difficult to recreate--this just won't happen in "normal" viewing for me.

Lastly, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this and the power buy thread. Being new to HDTV and DLP, it has been great to be able to be able to learn so much from the experience here.

jpe

I had a Samsung tech here to look at my pincushioning and video noise in 4:3 viewing at the edge of the picture. Looks like TV #2 gets a new light engine. Hopefully have it by Tuesday. TV is awesome with HD and still good with SD but the noise is annoying. As well, the pincushioning is anoying with a ticker strolling by.
I get my new light engine on Wed to address similar and more problems. Lets all hope for the best.

After a while I replaced the battery again and all in a sudden it is back working again! I don't know why.

Thanks for the help!
There is a small black circle directly below the power button, it is your IR receiver. Make sure nothing is blocking it.

Does the green LED in the power button flash when you use your remote (to acknowledge getting the signal)?

If you have another remote, such as a universal DVD remote that can support TV's, set it to Samsung and see if that second remote works.

Use the remote from 1 foot away ... just to see if it is sending out a weak signal.

If second remote works or remote works from 1 foot, than it is probably your remote and call 1-800-Samsung and request another one.

After a while I replaced the battery again and all in a sudden it is back working again! I don't know why.

Thanks for the help!Here is a possibility that I ran into. The remote for our HLP set has a top row of buttons. They are P. Mode, S. Mode, and MODE. I hadn't bothered reading about them before the MODE button was accidently pressed. That moved the controller from the TV position (leds just above the top row of buttons) to the STB position. It took a while to figure out why the controller wouldn't work with the TV. :o

You may already know about this "gotcha", but I thought it was worth pointing out just in case. :)

Here is a possibility that I ran into. The remote for our HLP set has a top row of buttons. They are P. Mode, S. Mode, and MODE. I hadn't bothered reading about them before the MODE button was accidently pressed. That moved the controller from the TV position (leds just above the top row of buttons) to the STB position. It took a while to figure out why the controller wouldn't work with the TV. :o

You may already know about this "gotcha", but I thought it was worth pointing out just in case. :)

Yes ... good point, these remotes are universal and can be controlling the TV or other devices. If it has been moved off TV, than there is going to be a problem.

and removing the batteries and replacing them may have defaulted back to in TV mode.

This may have been already covered in this long thread, but has anybody seen MB with these new 1080p Samsungs when matched with a Faroudja player? I have never seen MB with my HLN Sammy.

With the 3910 it wasn't bad and hardly noticable on some DVDs.

On others more pronounced but something I could of lived with
if I hadn't found the Pioneer Elite to be in the small ball park
PQ wise.

I had a Samsung tech here to look at my pincushioning and video noise in 4:3 viewing at the edge of the picture. Looks like TV #2 gets a new light engine. Hopefully have it by Tuesday. TV is awesome with HD and still good with SD but the noise is annoying. As well, the pincushioning is anoying with a ticker strolling by.


The Power Buy ends next Friday. I really want to order the 6768 but I see this thread continues to fill up with defects enherent in these sets. A new light engine in set #2! That sucks big time! I was prepared for the many "work arounds" on the lip sync issue, but the thought of the possibility of going through several replacement sets just to get a good one is worrisome. It begs the question that if your set has to be repaired right out of the box, then what are the long term prospects for future failures? There are few reports on the 67 inch model. Is it possible that Samsung has improved their QC with these sets? Any way to tell? And I have asked before for TVA to release percentage of returns to get a handle on this since many people with good sets will not post here.

I wonder how easy it is to replace the light engine? plug and play I suspect?

Easier than realigning the DMD board, from what Samsung technical support told me. I had TVA replace my 1st set because of screen tilt since Samsung said it was a major repair. The second set has been fine so far. I'm getting it calibrated on Thursday so hopefully everything will go well with the calibration.

The Power Buy ends next Friday. I really want to order the 6768 but I see this thread continues to fill up with defects enherent in these sets. A new light engine in set #2! That sucks big time! I was prepared for the many "work arounds" on the lip sync issue, but the thought of the possibility of going through several replacement sets just to get a good one is worrisome. It begs the question that if your set has to be repaired right out of the box, then what are the long term prospects for future failures? There are few reports on the 67 inch model. Is it possible that Samsung has improved their QC with these sets? Any way to tell? And I have asked before for TVA to release percentage of returns to get a handle on this since many people with good sets will not post here.

I wonder how easy it is to replace the light engine? plug and play I suspect?Haven't had one single problem with my HLN567 with over 3800 hours...I also have a HLR6768 and so far it has been flawless...haven't had any of these issues being mentioned in this thread...except for a slight lip sync at times...Overall I am very happy with this new set. :)

and removing the batteries and replacing them may have defaulted back to in TV mode.One of the things I tried before the "light" dawned was new batteries. That didn't work on our HLP. It only agreed to control the TV when I realized the MODE was in the wrong position. :o

Here is a pic of my new Sammy. Had to order a new stand to fit my audio stuff in. When it arrives I will post a picture of the completed system. I'm going to build some more custom panels to integrate the whole system. :D

The Power Buy ends next Friday. I really want to order the 6768 but I see this thread continues to fill up with defects enherent in these sets. A new light engine in set #2! That sucks big time! I was prepared for the many "work arounds" on the lip sync issue, but the thought of the possibility of going through several replacement sets just to get a good one is worrisome. It begs the question that if your set has to be repaired right out of the box, then what are the long term prospects for future failures? There are few reports on the 67 inch model. Is it possible that Samsung has improved their QC with these sets? Any way to tell? And I have asked before for TVA to release percentage of returns to get a handle on this since many people with good sets will not post here.

I wonder how easy it is to replace the light engine? plug and play I suspect?

One thing to keep in mind, many of these TV's have been ordered over the internet and have been shipped via standard freight ... that can lead to some rough handling and problems. Many shippers transfer shipments between distance carriers and local delivery carriers. It is possible that the set has been handled by up to three carriers by the time it reaches you (more if you count the number of legs to get to company you purchased the TV from).

One thing to keep in mind, many of these TV's have been ordered over the internet and have been shipped via standard freight ... that can lead to some rough handling and problems. Many shippers transfer shipments between distance carriers and local delivery carriers. It is possible that the set has been handled by up to three carriers by the time it reaches you (more if you count the number of legs to get to company you purchased the TV from).

The other thing is that we don't have any idea what the return rate
is since most people tend to post only if they are having a problem
or need some help. Even then we would probably have too small
a population to draw a meaningful statistical analysis from...

Planning on getting a 6178 on the PowerBuy, but did have a question for everyone out there. I have a Sammy HLN-507W 720p that I purchased about 2 years ago now. The first set I received had 1 pixel out (black spot) due to a stuck mirror and I just returned the TV since it was in first 30 days and purchased again. My concern is whether this is possible with the powerbuy. If I open it up and notice a black pixel say the week after can I just return it for a new unit or do they try to repair it? I'm not much for having a brand new TV repaired (especially since they won't do it for 1 or 2 pixels). Anyone know if you can just return within say 30 days and then repurchase the replacement? It was easy the first time b/c it was purchased at CircuitCity.

Anyone have any stuck or black pixels thus far? I assume it would be less with these models just because of the wobulation added. So basically the mirrors are moving up/down and left/right as opposed to the 720p just moving on/off. Any thoughts?

Here is a pic of my new Sammy. Had to order a new stand to fit my audio stuff in. When it arrives I will post a picture of the completed system. I'm going to build some more custom panels to integrate the whole system. :D

Nice set up! I really like the Sammy stand since it looks like the bottom of
the TV is part of the stand and there a 61in. plasma TV foating above it.
The only thing I put on the stand is my center channel. The other components
are placed in a rack.

Planning on getting a 6178 on the PowerBuy, but did have a question for everyone out there. I have a Sammy HLN-507W 720p that I purchased about 2 years ago now. The first set I received had 1 pixel out (black spot) due to a stuck mirror and I just returned the TV since it was in first 30 days and purchased again. My concern is whether this is possible with the powerbuy. If I open it up and notice a black pixel say the week after can I just return it for a new unit or do they try to repair it? I'm not much for having a brand new TV repaired (especially since they won't do it for 1 or 2 pixels). Anyone know if you can just return within say 30 days and then repurchase the replacement? It was easy the first time b/c it was purchased at CircuitCity.

Anyone have any stuck or black pixels thus far? I assume it would be less with these models just because of the wobulation added. So basically the mirrors are moving up/down and left/right as opposed to the 720p just moving on/off. Any thoughts?

You should ask this question over in the PowerBuy thread so TVA can give you a definitive answer. There have not been any reported stuck mirror problem in the Samsung 2005 threads.

Planning on getting a 6178 on the PowerBuy, but did have a question for everyone out there. I have a Sammy HLN-507W 720p that I purchased about 2 years ago now. The first set I received had 1 pixel out (black spot) due to a stuck mirror and I just returned the TV since it was in first 30 days and purchased again. My concern is whether this is possible with the powerbuy. If I open it up and notice a black pixel say the week after can I just return it for a new unit or do they try to repair it? I'm not much for having a brand new TV repaired (especially since they won't do it for 1 or 2 pixels). Anyone know if you can just return within say 30 days and then repurchase the replacement? It was easy the first time b/c it was purchased at CircuitCity.

Anyone have any stuck or black pixels thus far? I assume it would be less with these models just because of the wobulation added. So basically the mirrors are moving up/down and left/right as opposed to the 720p just moving on/off. Any thoughts?

I have never seen a pixel out on a DLP but have heard of it happening ( though
rarely ). The AVS/TVA PB lets you return the set for any reason during the
first 30 days and they will pay for the shipping as long as you buy another set
from them.

I believe the mirrors move in the same way on the wobulated sets and that
is they rotate 10 degrees back and forth 10 times per pixel. The more times
they are towards the light the more lighter the grey produced. The DMD does
"wobule" in order to create two subframes every 16 ms ( 8 ms per frame ) but
I don't believe the mirrors themselves move differently.

Here is a pic of my new Sammy. Had to order a new stand to fit my audio stuff in. When it arrives I will post a picture of the completed system. I'm going to build some more custom panels to integrate the whole system. :D

Looks great! I'm waiting for mine from TVA :( I am having the same issue with finding a stand. I want to fit my center channel and components under the TV without it being too high. I found the BDI deploy but it is not out yet and is probably expensive.

What stand did you order?

If you want to return the set for "personal" reasons then you pay the return freight.

You should check all this with TVA before Friday if you are interested in the power buy.

You onl have to pay freight if you don't buy another set from TVA...

You onl have to pay freight if you don't buy another set from TVA...Yes. I already remove my "fuzzy" reply.

Looks great! I'm waiting for mine from TVA :( I am having the same issue with finding a stand. I want to fit my center channel and components under the TV without it being too high. I found the BDI deploy but it is not out yet and is probably expensive.

What stand did you order?


I am interested in the BDI Deploy too. Try contacting authorized BDI dealers as I believe they can now order them. I have not found any online retailer selling the Deploy yet.

Rick

Cable - Coax from wall into 6168 antenna input
Air - Coax from Radio Shack antenna into other 6168 antenna input
HDMI - HDTivo HR10-250

The antenna switch on the remote lets you toggle between the two coax input sources. When I toggle to cable antenna input, the digital audio choice is no longer selectable.

As one option I have set up direct cable feed to RF input (no cable card yet).
This allows casual viewing (using TV only) of regular analog cable as well as any unencrypted digital stations that the TV tuner can get.
An Analog cable station delivers regular PCM stereo output and the TV setup MENU has the audio output-type selection greyed.
However, when viewing a digital channel that is also broadcasting in Dolby Digital, the audio out option becomes available, allowing output selection of Digital or PCM via the TVs optical out. An example of such station in our area is comcast's InHD channels.
If I choose to play the optical audio thru the AV receiver, the receiver auto switches between PCM and Dolby 5.1 decoding as the channels are changed.
The output of PCM vs Digital is dynamic with the broadcast source.

How the heck are you supposed to get underneath the set to remove the built in pedestal base on the 6168 ?

I dont see anything about it in the manual. :confused:

I haven't received the codes from Samsung yet, but you can pickup almost every code except HDMI 2 at remotecentral.com in the files area under Samsung TV. There is a Samsung HLP codes file with most of the codes in the file. If you are trying to get started, I would be happy to email you my TSU3000 file. It is custom for my setup, but could be modified easily. It will show you what is possible ... you can run it in the emulator or on your 3000. I have a totally custom design that was time consuming to create, but easy to maintain now.

Found a file for the MX-700/800 and Pronto here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=mx700&db=devices&br=samsung&dv=television&md=hlpxx85w&fc=&kw=&st=&ar=&dt=&so=&pg=1&file=mx700/devices/tv/sam-tv-hlpxx85w.zip

This contains all possible codes for these TVs. Using this config, I was able to determine that code "E9" switches to the HDMI2 input.

Here is Hugh Oliveto's readme:

I have put together a Pronto file and a MX-850 file to check all 256 discrete
codes for a Samsung HL-P5685 TV. I have included a worksheet to record what
each code does on the "Samsung HL-P5685 FW1022 Discrete Summary Worksheet.xls".

The pronto CCF file "SamsungHLP5685vTesting.CCF" has devices that are named as
the ranges of hexidecimal codes. For example 1F-28 is the device that contains
codes 1F, 20, 21, ... 27, & 28. The buttons are named by the Hex code of the
discrete. All 256 discrete codes has a button.

The MX-850 "SamsungHLP5685exp.mxf" Mxf file has devices TV1 through TV7.
TV1 page1 has codes 01 - 0A, Page2 has 0B - 14. Each page is filled with 10
codes. There are four pages each for TV1 through TV6 for a total of 40 commands
per device. TV7 only has two pages for a total of 16 more commands. Therefore a
grand total of 256 discrete codes. I put "00" on the last page after "FF".

I have the MX-850, and have found that once you use the "SamsungHLP5685exp.mxf"
file with all the commands to find which discretes work, I use the ccf file to
inport the specific codes into your mx-850 file with all your other devices.

My HL-P5685 has firmware 1022, so the discrete codes were very close to the codes
for an HL-P5063 firmware 1024. I could not find the HDMI input, Composite Video 2
input, or Antenna/RF input. I was able to find the well documented Component3,
Composite3 and SVideo3 input discretes for the inputs that don't exist!

I have not done extensive testing, just a quick pass through the codes. I did find these interesting:

8B = HDMI1
C0 = Diagnostic1
C1 = Diagnostic2
DE = movie mode
DF = standard mode
E1 = Zoom2
E2 = Panorama
E3 = 4:3
E4 = 16:9

One code I was looking for, but failed to find, was a switch for TV Air/Cable.

John

With the Power Buy about to end, I'm torn between going ahead with the Samsung HLR5668 and the yet-to-hit-the-street Toshiba 56HM195. I'd like to see whether the Toshiba does or does not suffer from the video lag when sending audio from DVD directly to the surround processor.

Does anyone have any opinions between these two sets? or know anything more about the new Toshiba's? The 56" Toshiba actually has a lower MSRP than the 56" Samsung. Any historical differences in quality or reliability? Hmmmm.

Hey all - Just got my HLR-6768w... It seems mostly great but there are some issues.

I have a DISH 942 - very new generation HDTV DVR and have hooked the audio (optical) to my receiver - but am switching the input (HDMI) through the TV source directly. Some channels are fine - some have a HUGE speech / sound differential. Looks like a Godzilla movie "Godzilla is attacking the city!" where the move moves later than the words.

Sometimes it's ok, sometimes bad. Possibly (probably?) is that I am bringing the audio out to a seperate receiver - but not sure that is completely the case. As the HDMI input is audio as well - seems to have a prob going directly to the Samsung speakers - but I can't confirm this yet.

Anyway - just hooked it up and am just getting used to it. It's vibrant, large and very cool. I do notice scintilation and 'rainbow' effects on much of the content but it doesn't bother me all that much yet. I am a little spoiled, I had the Toshiba 57HLX (forgot the exact designation) which was a 1080 LCOS set ($9,000.00 ish) but Toshiba had to return everyones money (or at least they chose to) as it had too many problems (blue flares, ect.). The TV went with our last house which was a year ago - but that TV had a floating tempered glass screen and was 330 lbs. and had an AMAZing picture.

I will spend more time figuring the Samsung out - if the picture / synch with the lips stays as it is, and is not because it is going through my receiver first - it's horrible. I mean really - put on a HDTV channel (some cage fighting thing) and the words do not even come close to being in sync. On the other hand watched Sponge Bob movie on a progressive DVD hooked up via Component - and it was a gorgous experience! TIme will tell. will report back on the 67!

Cyphire, I'm interested in getting that DVR. I went to their site and it seemed to say something about HD and upconverted SD on TV1 and SD and downconverted HD on TV2? Something like that, I guess since you need to somehow connect your second HDTV somehow? Could you explain how the second HDTV works?

Also, my friend is already a Dish subscriber. Were you able to get some sort of deal as a new customer or were you already using Dish before you got the DVR? Any info on that DVR would be great.

Cyphire, I'm interested in getting that DVR. I went to their site and it seemed to say something about HD and upconverted SD on TV1 and SD and downconverted HD on TV2? Something like that, I guess since you need to somehow connect your second HDTV somehow? Could you explain how the second HDTV works?

Also, my friend is already a Dish subscriber. Were you able to get some sort of deal as a new customer or were you already using Dish before you got the DVR? Any info on that DVR would be great.

The 942 is a dual tuner DVR. There are 2 satellite tuners (TV1, TV2) but only 1 OTA tuner. You can record 1 satellite program and watch another but not with OTA.

TV1 is meant for use with a HDTV and TV2 for an additional SDTV only. The TV2 signal is carried to the second TV via coax or RCA cable. TV1 has component and HDMI for connection to a HDTV. If you have 2 HDTVs, you will need an additional HDTV receiver, like the 811. I have my 942 connected to my living room HDTV and coax carrying the TV2 signal to a CRT SDTV in my bedroom.

If you are a new customer, you can lease the 942 when you subscribe. Current customers are having a hard time getting the same lease deal.

With the Power Buy about to end, I'm torn between going ahead with the Samsung HLR5668 and the yet-to-hit-the-street Toshiba 56HM195. I'd like to see whether the Toshiba does or does not suffer from the video lag when sending audio from DVD directly to the surround processor.

Does anyone have any opinions between these two sets? or know anything more about the new Toshiba's? The 56" Toshiba actually has a lower MSRP than the 56" Samsung. Any historical differences in quality or reliability? Hmmmm.


Don't rush your purchase just because the PB is ending. To start, the PB was a phenomenal price...but one can now get the same sets at approximately the same price as TVA's PB. I am deferring my purchase for at least a month because 1) the PB isn't such a PB anymore and 2) and most importantly the Mits, JVC, Sony, and Toshibas are due in stores this month. Do yourself a favor and lock your wallet in a safe until you SEE ALL sets you are considering...

Found a file for the MX-700/800 and Pronto here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=mx700&db=devices&br=samsung&dv=television&md=hlpxx85w&fc=&kw=&st=&ar=&dt=&so=&pg=1&file=mx700/devices/tv/sam-tv-hlpxx85w.zip

This contains all possible codes for these TVs. Using this config, I was able to determine that code "E9" switches to the HDMI2 input.

Here is Hugh Oliveto's readme:


I have not done extensive testing, just a quick pass through the codes. I did find these interesting:

8B = HDMI1
C0 = Diagnostic1
C1 = Diagnostic2
DE = movie mode
DF = standard mode
E1 = Zoom2
E2 = Panorama
E3 = 4:3
E4 = 16:9

One code I was looking for, but failed to fine, was a switch for TV Air/Cable.

John

Thanks John ... I will try E9 for HDMI 2!!!

Found a file for the MX-700/800 and Pronto here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=mx700&db=devices&br=samsung&dv=television&md=hlpxx85w&fc=&kw=&st=&ar=&dt=&so=&pg=1&file=mx700/devices/tv/sam-tv-hlpxx85w.zip

This contains all possible codes for these TVs. Using this config, I was able to determine that code "E9" switches to the HDMI2 input.

Here is Hugh Oliveto's readme:


I have not done extensive testing, just a quick pass through the codes. I did find these interesting:

8B = HDMI1
C0 = Diagnostic1
C1 = Diagnostic2
DE = movie mode
DF = standard mode
E1 = Zoom2
E2 = Panorama
E3 = 4:3
E4 = 16:9

One code I was looking for, but failed to fine, was a switch for TV Air/Cable.

John

Thanks John

I tried out the HDMI 2 code and Movie Mode codes and they work. This finally solved my weird brightness problems by allowing me to send a Movie Code to the TV 4 seconds after the input changes to get the normal brightness levels.

Thanks John ... I will try E9 for HDMI 2!!!

E9 did it!!! It works, also thanks for the other codes! I will be building a Pronto NG file and posting it here and at remotecentral.com over the next day or so ... but, until then here is the Pronto HEX code for HDMI 1 and HDMI 2:

HDMI 2:
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AB 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0680

HDMI 1:
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AC 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0680


Thanks!!!!!

Gammadude, thanks for the info. So I guess my next question would be if there is another HD DVR STB that is less expensive? In other words I need two STBs for the price of that one. I was also considering changing the name or something on the account or cancelling and signing up again, not that they never heard of these stupid idea before though. Help!

the top two Mits lines have built in OTA PVRs, 1080p

expected out soon

I think someone needs to hurry up and build a .mxf file for a HLRxx68 set so I don't have to do it when my set comes >_<

- D

Found a file for the MX-700/800 and Pronto here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=mx700&db=devices&br=samsung&dv=television&md=hlpxx85w&fc=&kw=&st=&ar=&dt=&so=&pg=1&file=mx700/devices/tv/sam-tv-hlpxx85w.zip

This contains all possible codes for these TVs. Using this config, I was able to determine that code "E9" switches to the HDMI2 input.

Here is Hugh Oliveto's readme:


I have not done extensive testing, just a quick pass through the codes. I did find these interesting:

8B = HDMI1
C0 = Diagnostic1
C1 = Diagnostic2
DE = movie mode
DF = standard mode
E1 = Zoom2
E2 = Panorama
E3 = 4:3
E4 = 16:9

One code I was looking for, but failed to find, was a switch for TV Air/Cable.

John

John ... I agree, the only source selection code that I don't have now is to switch to the TV source. If you or anyone else discovers this code, please post.

John ... I agree, the only source selection code that I don't have now is to switch to the TV source. If you or anyone else discovers this code, please post.

Well ... I played around with the codes a little and found TV (source selection). It is decimal 1, HEX 01.

Here is the Pronto code:

TV:
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AB 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0680

ADDED: After further testing this is the SOURCE code and not TV code, sorry.

Okay I have my TV two weeks now and I am very happy with it. Color & PQ is outstanding. DVD looks great and lip sync (although present at times) is minimal.

I have read so many posts that I can't even remember if or what I remember is true. Probably more age related....Two questions though:

1) Can anyone comment on how much better an upconverting player is compared to 480p units? I mean is the difference similar to the difference between std tv & dvd?
My current panny player (actually their top combo dvd/vhs unit) looks pretty damn good and I am trying to determine if I really need to spend another $200 before I get a calibration.
2) I get a shimmering/scintillation effect mostly on backgrounds (like people in stands at ballgames) or when there is content like chain-link fence or vertical/horizontal lines on clothing (like pinstripes/plaid). Any one else getting this? Are there some TV settings to minimize this? Perhaps caused by the STB?

Thanks,
Carl

Okay I have my TV two weeks now and I am very happy with it. Color & PQ is outstanding. DVD looks great and lip sync (although present at times) is minimal.

I have read so many posts that I can't even remember if or what I remember is true. Probably more age related....Two questions though:

1) Can anyone comment on how much better an upconverting player is compared to 480p units? I mean is the difference similar to the difference between std tv & dvd?
My current panny player (actually their top combo dvd/vhs unit) looks pretty damn good and I am trying to determine if I really need to spend another $200 before I get a calibration.
2) I get a shimmering/scintillation effect mostly on backgrounds (like people in stands at ballgames) or when there is content like chain-link fence or vertical/horizontal lines on clothing (like pinstripes/plaid). Any one else getting this? Are there some TV settings to minimize this? Perhaps caused by the STB?

Thanks,
Carl

Reply to question 1:

I recently purchased the Panasonic S77 DVD Player to use with the HLR-5078W. Right now the HDMI show alot of graininess and noise versus an S-Video connection (tried LOTR). I have not tried the component connections yet. I have tried the HDMI by going from 480p, 720p, and 1080i modes and do not notice big changes between the three modes - not sure if this is because the DLP is upconverting every mode to 1080p.

Reply to question 2:

Saw the same thing on the HDTV NASCAR races which had plenty of fences and crowds. Also noticed some snowiness/graininess in moving backgrounds. I'm not sure if calibration of the DLP would eliminate this or not or if this is the nature of the wobulated DLP chip.

Note: Sound and Vision Mag just reviewed tserveral of the upconverting DVD players.

I think what you're seeing is the deinterlacer/scaler unable to keep up with the content.

With the Power Buy about to end, I'm torn between going ahead with the Samsung HLR5668 and the yet-to-hit-the-street Toshiba 56HM195. I'd like to see whether the Toshiba does or does not suffer from the video lag when sending audio from DVD directly to the surround processor.

Does anyone have any opinions between these two sets? or know anything more about the new Toshiba's? The 56" Toshiba actually has a lower MSRP than the 56" Samsung. Any historical differences in quality or reliability? Hmmmm.


All TVs that process video and don't pass DD 5.1 will suffer from video lag (lip sync) if you want to listen to audio through you AVR. It takes some time to process the video verses minimal time for the AVR to process audio. Many viewers don't see it, but you can always hear it (ECHO TEST).

Just ordered one of the 5668W units and have one question:

My Toshiba HDTV has the ability to act as the center channel of an audio setup with a single audio input on the back panel and a switch. Do these Samsung TV have that ability?

I ordered Plateau CR-2V. Do a search and you will find it. Actually, I found out about it on this thread. The only problem is I had to get the largest one to fit my Onkyo Intergra amp on the bottom left side. This means I'll have a few inches of wasted space sticking out on both sides of my 59.5" DLP. This stands is 64" wide. I paid $479 and free shipping.

I hesitated for so long on weather to buy the 5668 due to all the video lag discussion. I finally decided that I like the picture too much to not. I ordered a felston dd540 for the audio delay and recieved it the day before my T.V. arrived. I had everything hooked up in my living room when the TV arrived. It all works good together. I am so glad that I brought this TV and the felston has taken care of all the video lag for my movie watching. PQ is stunning. Black levels make such a big difference. I am so glad that I picked this TV. I do have slight bowwing on the black bars when I am wathing 4:3 though. I was wondering if this is something I should live with or something that is not normal.

The guy from felston was great. Nick was his name. He got it in the mail right away and I received it in 2 days. Shipping was only like $8.00.

Has anyone tried learning the remote code from the actual remote? I've never done it before (just used premade .mxf files) but I wonder if we were to learn that button, and then look at it in the software for programming said remote?

- D

My friend owns an HLR 6167 on which I’ve noticed a phenomenon resembling picture breakup (looks like squares of picture information bunched together) on scenes where there is fast motion. I don’t know what this is called but I have an HLR 6168 on pre-order and I am wondering if current owners see this effect on their sets. I love the PQ on his set and I’m hoping that the 6168 can, if anything at all, be better. I do not know if this has anything to do with the set or the source.

...I am trying to determine if I really need to spend another $200 before I get a calibration.I think an ISF calibrator will tell you that you should have the input devices that you are going to keep "before" you have the calibration done.

Our older non-progressive Sony player doesn't look nearly as good as DVDs played from our HTPC. A very large number of people feel the same way about their up scaling DVD players.

By using the HDMI input port you avoid a digital to analog conversion that has to be reversed (analog to digital) in the TV.

Check out message #4 in this thread for reviews of several up scaling DVD players.

How the heck are you supposed to get underneath the set to remove the built in pedestal base on the 6168 ?

I dont see anything about it in the manual. :confused:

You have to remove the screws on the back of the set, depress the 2 rear tabs on the set and slide the pedastal up and forward, dislodging the pedastal. I had another person position the set on its side to accomplish this feat. No damage done to the set.

I ordered Plateau CR-2V. Do a search and you will find it. Actually, I found out about it on this thread. The only problem is I had to get the largest one to fit my Onkyo Intergra amp on the bottom left side. This means I'll have a few inches of wasted space sticking out on both sides of my 59.5" DLP. This stands is 64" wide. I paid $479 and free shipping.

What Sasmung DLP is 59.5 inches wide?
I have the 6168 and it is 56.9 inches wide. The 6768 is over 62 inches wide

My friend owns an HLR 6167 on which I’ve noticed a phenomenon resembling picture breakup (looks like squares of picture information bunched together) on scenes where there is fast motion. I don’t know what this is called but I have an HLR 6168 on pre-order and I am wondering if current owners see this effect on their sets. I love the PQ on his set and I’m hoping that the 6168 can, if anything at all, be better. I do not know if this has anything to do with the set or the source.

This type of "tiling" of a digital signal is not uncommon with rapid motion of HD or digital content. Many attribute this to excessive compression of the signal, but it is my understanding that the signal is exceeding the bandwidth allocated by the service provider.

I own a 6168 and can assure that this is not what I see consistently when I watch HD and digital content. I am using the following HDTiVo (DirectTV), SD TiVO (DirectTV), CableVision's Version of SA8300 HD PVR, Standard RF cable feed, Direct Feed OTA, Denon DVD 5900 via DVI at 720P (Scaling is far superior in the player at 720P when compared to that of 1080i).

My friend owns an HLR 6167 on which I’ve noticed a phenomenon resembling picture breakup (looks like squares of picture information bunched together) on scenes where there is fast motion. I don’t know what this is called but I have an HLR 6168 on pre-order and I am wondering if current owners see this effect on their sets. I love the PQ on his set and I’m hoping that the 6168 can, if anything at all, be better. I do not know if this has anything to do with the set or the source.

Is the signal source OTA, cable, or satellite? Makes a big difference. From all I've heard, the satellite signal is most prone to this because it is the most compressed.

You will see that effect, no matter the source due to compression. Especially with bright flashes of light. I have seen it on every type of display available. It is not a display problem.

Has anyone tried learning the remote code from the actual remote? I've never done it before (just used premade .mxf files) but I wonder if we were to learn that button, and then look at it in the software for programming said remote?

- D

Yes, that is the easiest, fastest way to enter a code (at least on a Pronto remote using ProntoEdit). But, you can not get all of the codes you need using that method. That is why there is a small set of discrete codes that go beyond the ones on the remote that we need to either generate or copy from someone else's file.

My friend owns an HLR 6167 on which I’ve noticed a phenomenon resembling picture breakup (looks like squares of picture information bunched together) on scenes where there is fast motion. I don’t know what this is called but I have an HLR 6168 on pre-order and I am wondering if current owners see this effect on their sets. I love the PQ on his set and I’m hoping that the 6168 can, if anything at all, be better. I do not know if this has anything to do with the set or the source.
It is 100% the source, I rarely see it on Comcast HD cable.

I see it on Comcast, DirecTV, and OTA.

Looks great! I'm waiting for mine from TVA :( I am having the same issue with finding a stand. I want to fit my center channel and components under the TV without it being too high. I found the BDI deploy but it is not out yet and is probably expensive.

What stand did you order?

I have The Samsung TR61X2SB stand and fit my center speaker, A/V receiver, DVD player and cable STB.

See photo........... Jerry

Well ... I played around with the codes a little and found TV (source selection). It is decimal 1, HEX 01.

Here is the Pronto code:

TV:
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AB 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0680

Sorry ... after further testing, this is just the SOURCE code and not the TV code. If anyone has the TV source selection code, please post.

Is the signal source OTA, cable, or satellite? Makes a big difference. From all I've heard, the satellite signal is most prone to this because it is the most compressed.


Signal source is OTA which is what I plan to use initially but I will get a satellite HD receiver from Dish Network later. Don't know which on yet though.

I have seen this type of "tiling" of a digital signal is not uncommon with rapid motion of HD or digital content. Many attribute this to excessive compression of the signal, but it is my understanding that the signal is exceeding the bandwidth allocated by the service provider.

I own a 6168 and can assure that this is not what I see consistently when I watch HD and digital content. I am using the following HDTiVo (DirectTV), SD TiVO (DirectTV), CableVision's Version of SA8300 HD PVR, Standard RF cable feed, Direct Feed OTA, Denon DVD 5900 via DVI at 720P (Scaling is far superior in the player at 720P when compared to that of 1080i).

That's good news. Aside from this one issue I like the PQ a lot. In fact, I just returned from Tweeter/Hi-Fi Buys and saw the 6178 with a baseball game in Hd and thought the picture was superb. Didn't notice any of this on the set and I like the picture better. For about $200 more than what the 6167 is selling for, I think I've made the right decision. Can't wait. Thanks for your input all.

Thanks John

I tried out the HDMI 2 code and Movie Mode codes and they work. This finally solved my weird brightness problems by allowing me to send a Movie Code to the TV 4 seconds after the input changes to get the normal brightness levels.

First BIG Problem Identified ???


Thanks Jake!!! Your observation allowed me to tie down a nagging problem / doubt that I have had since my 5668 had arrived. I just didn't feel that the brightness (dynamic range) was right. I spent some time working with Samsung initially, but could not clearly define the problem and put the work on hold ... now I think it can be defined.

PROBLEM DEFINITION: When switching inputs the brightness or dynamic range of the picture is less than expected. This results in a degraded picture. I will have to wait until this evening to tell if it is the actual dynamic range of the image or just the brightness that is being affected. My guess is that the dynamic range is being reduced and this is a big problem!!!

For example, if you change from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2, the picture on HDMI 2 is not right. If you change back to HDMI1, the picture on HDMI 1 is not right. So as you change between your inputs you are always looking at a picture that is off. Once it starts, nothing will stop this from occuring.

EXTENT OF PROBLEM: The picture is dgraded from it's optimal performance levels, but still looks OK/good. This problem would not be noticed by a user that did not know exactly what these monitors should look like.

All picture modes (standard, movie, ...) seem to be effected.

Owners may feel that picture is not as good as they expected ... and they would be right.

EXPECTED CAUSE: Firmware bug.

POSSIBLE TRIGGERING EVENT: Unknown, but possibly any adjustment of the user PQ settings would be enough to setup and trigger the problem. Once started, there does not appear to be a way to stop it.

SERIOUSNESS: EXTREMELY SERIOUS

REQUIRED FIX: Firmware Upgrade, currently unavailable.

WORKAROUND: Issuing a IR discrete code for the picture mode you are currently using. For example, if you are in STANDARD picture mode, issue the discrete code for Standard picture mode. The picture will immediately change ... lighten (expanded dynamic range?).

If anyone can confirm this problem or has any additional insights, please post.

Hmm, I wonder if this is what might have been causing the poor shadow detail that I was noticing when switching between my DVD player (panny S97) and my HR10-250 D* HDTivo receiver, both connected via HDMI. No amount of adjusting the picture mode and settings seemed to be able to extract enough detail from pools of black.

I will need to wait until this evening to get the right light levels in my room to do a detailed evaluation. But, if it is the dynamic range (which is what I expect) than it definitely could be killing picture detail.

First BIG Problem Identified ???


Thanks Jake!!! Your observation allowed me to tie down a nagging problem / doubt that I have had since my 5668 had arrived. I just didn't feel that the brightness (dynamic range) was right. I spent some time working with Samsung initially, but could not clearly define the problem and put the work on hold ... now I think it can be defined.

PROBLEM DEFINITION: When switching inputs the brightness or dynamic range of the picture is less than expected. This results in a degraded picture. I will have to wait until this evening to tell if it is the actual dynamic range of the image or just the brightness that is being affected. My guess is that the dynamic range is being reduced and this is a big problem!!!

For example, if you change from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2, the picture on HDMI 2 is not right. If you change back to HDMI1, the picture on HDMI 1 is not right. So as you change between your inputs you are always looking at a picture that is off. Once it starts, nothing will stop this from occuring.

EXTENT OF PROBLEM: The picture is dgraded from it's optimal performance levels, but still looks OK/good. This problem would not be noticed by a user that did not know exactly what these monitors should look like.

All picture modes (standard, movie, ...) seem to be effected.

Owners may feel that picture is not as good as they expected ... and they would be right.

EXPECTED CAUSE: Firmware bug.

POSSIBLE TRIGGERING EVENT: Unknown, but possibly any adjustment of the user PQ settings would be enough to setup and trigger the problem. Once started, there does not appear to be a way to stop it.

SERIOUSNESS: EXTREMELY SERIOUS

REQUIRED FIX: Firmware Upgrade, currently unavailable.

WORKAROUND: Issuing a IR discrete code for the picture mode you are currently using. For example, if you are in STANDARD picture mode, issue the discrete code for Standard picture mode. The picture will immediately change ... lighten (expanded dynamic range?).

If anyone can confirm this problem or has any additional insights, please post.

The problem is affecting the dynamic range of the picture ... and is significant!!!! I would say that when the problem is present that you are not getting any better performance out of these sets than a 720p model. Once set correctly, it will seem like you have a new TV .... thankfully, the performance I paid for and was expecting is now present. I will be reporting and working with Samsung on this problem first thing tomorrow morning. I'll keep everyone posted on what Samsung's approach.

You have to remove the screws on the back of the set, depress the 2 rear tabs on the set and slide the pedastal up and forward, dislodging the pedastal. I had another person position the set on its side to accomlish this feat. No damage done to the set.


You had the tv tilted to one side ? you mean resting on one of the corners at the base ?

I dont see how you would slide the pedestal out unless two other people were holding the tv up. Seems kinda dangerous.


To those of you discussing stands. I am also having a really hard time picking a stand out for the 6168. I dont really like the Samsung 61TX that is built for these tv's.

Here are some links to tv stands i found but i am still not sure which i like of the 3 and am still searching for something even better.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=128537&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=5902302&type=product&id=1060605669796

http://www.standsandmounts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4331

http://www.racksandstands.com/asp/show_detail.asp?sku=BD1040&refid=PG1%2DBD1040

Im trying to find something under 500 dollars that has good support for AV Accessories on the shelves. Possibly also a spot for a center channel speaker, and good wire management. If anyone can suggest anything better even if its a little more expensive i would go for it if its really what im looking for. Im not sure if i really want a wood finish. Obviously i need some help with this stand , any ideas ???

First BIG Problem Identified ???


Thanks Jake!!! Your observation allowed me to tie down a nagging problem / doubt that I have had since my 5668 had arrived. I just didn't feel that the brightness (dynamic range) was right. I spent some time working with Samsung initially, but could not clearly define the problem and put the work on hold ... now I think it can be defined.

PROBLEM DEFINITION: When switching inputs the brightness or dynamic range of the picture is less than expected. This results in a degraded picture. I will have to wait until this evening to tell if it is the actual dynamic range of the image or just the brightness that is being affected. My guess is that the dynamic range is being reduced and this is a big problem!!!

For example, if you change from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2, the picture on HDMI 2 is not right. If you change back to HDMI1, the picture on HDMI 1 is not right. So as you change between your inputs you are always looking at a picture that is off. Once it starts, nothing will stop this from occuring.

EXTENT OF PROBLEM: The picture is dgraded from it's optimal performance levels, but still looks OK/good. This problem would not be noticed by a user that did not know exactly what these monitors should look like.

All picture modes (standard, movie, ...) seem to be effected.

Owners may feel that picture is not as good as they expected ... and they would be right.

EXPECTED CAUSE: Firmware bug.

POSSIBLE TRIGGERING EVENT: Unknown, but possibly any adjustment of the user PQ settings would be enough to setup and trigger the problem. Once started, there does not appear to be a way to stop it.

SERIOUSNESS: EXTREMELY SERIOUS

REQUIRED FIX: Firmware Upgrade, currently unavailable.

WORKAROUND: Issuing a IR discrete code for the picture mode you are currently using. For example, if you are in STANDARD picture mode, issue the discrete code for Standard picture mode. The picture will immediately change ... lighten (expanded dynamic range?).

If anyone can confirm this problem or has any additional insights, please post.

This does sound very serious and i would be happy to help test this. I just need some instructions on how i would go about sending an IR Discrete code for the picture mode ? I notice that in movies dvd / some hd movies that in dark shadows or dark areas where picture is black there is little to no detail. Could this be one of the causes of this dynamic range error ?

Does resetting the Picture Settings clear the issue? I am seeing alot of snowiness/noise on the HDMI 1 with the Panasonic S77 and HLR-5078W. I'm not sure if the snowiness/noise are some of the symptoms of the problem you identified.

is it possible to send the IR codes with the samsung remote ? I dont have the MX-850. :(

Does resetting the Picture Settings clear the issue? I am seeing alot of snowiness/noise on the HDMI 1 with the Panasonic S77 and HLR-5078W. I'm not sure if the snowiness/noise are some of the symptoms of the problem you identified.

No ... noise is not part of the problem. But, the video noise is probably caused by the Genesis FL23xx chip in the S77. Settings are critical on the S77 to minimize effect. Look in the last five pages of the S97 firmware thread in the DVD player area.

is it possible to send the IR codes with the samsung remote ? I dont have the MX-850. :(

No. Arqos ... hold on, I'm sure someone that can identify the problem will develop a second work around with the Samsung remote. Possibly going in to make any PQ setting adjustments after you have switched inputs (but, I could not confirm this approach).

All TVs that process video and don't pass DD 5.1 will suffer from video lag (lip sync) if you want to listen to audio through you AVR. It takes some time to process the video verses minimal time for the AVR to process audio. Many viewers don't see it, but you can always hear it (ECHO TEST).

However, DLP's seem to suffer from this more than most. LCD RP's have no noticable lip sync issues or video game issues.

It is about the specific technology used, not just the lack of pass through.

However, DLP's seem to suffer from this more than most. LCD RP's have no noticable lip sync issues or video game issues.

It is about the specific technology used, not just the lack of pass through.

Are you saying LCD RPs can process the video a lot faster than DLPs OR is there less processing required by LCD RPs?

No. Arqos ... hold on, I'm sure someone that can identify the problem will develop a second work around with the Samsung remote. Possibly going in to make any PQ setting adjustments after you have switched inputs (but, I could not confirm this approach).

Easiest way to fix the dynamic range (crushed blacks for sure) with samsung remote is probably to toggle from movie to custom and back. That's what my macro did until we found the discreet codes for Move and Standard.

I called samsung about this problem a few weeks ago and they just though I was crazy. I hope others can get more progress on the problem.

Easiest way to fix the dynamic range (crushed blacks for sure) with samsung remote is probably to toggle from movie to custom and back.


Is this caused by changinging the PQ settings and then changing inputs? Or does this happen any time you change inputs. Will the Harmony remotes send these discreet codes?

Hello, I am going cross-eyed trying to find this info. I am building a shelving unit for a 6168 and am thinking about these measurements.

45 inches from floor to center of the screen, giving
30 inches from floor to bottom of the screen
22.5 inches from the floor to the top of the TV shelf

Does this sound reasonable?

Thx.

Is this caused by changinging the PQ settings and then changing inputs? Or does this happen any time you change inputs. Will the Harmony remotes send these discreet codes?

Once it starts, it will happen every time you change inputs. Harmony remotes should be able to send the right IR codes.

Right now I am 100% sure the problem is occuring on the HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 inputs. I'm testing the other inputs and will clarify the situation on the component and TV sources.

When you toggle between digital inputs ie HDMI 1 HDMI 2, you are not giving the device sufficient time to perform The HDCP handshake. Thats the reason when you switch , the next inputs video display is compromised.

Once it starts, it will happen every time you change inputs.

Is there a way to toatally reset the TV and would that stop the problem?

When you toggle between digital inputs ie HDMI 1 HDMI 2, you are not giving the device sufficient time to perform The HDCP handshake. Thats the reason when you switch , the next inputs video display is compromised.


So when you change to HDMI2 you just pause before doing anything else?

When you toggle between digital inputs ie HDMI 1 HDMI 2, you are not giving the device sufficient time to perform The HDCP handshake. Thats the reason when you switch , the next inputs video display is compromised.

No ... I always would use MENU and go directly to the specific input. I do not use the SOURCE function. In addition, I am now using HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 discrete IR codes to go directly to each input, so there is absolutely no cycling through inputs. It is a problem with the initial state of the input. I noticed it after my TV arrived and was working with Samsung's National Service manager to isolate the problem, but could not quite tie it down. The ability to issue the discrete picture mode command makes it obvious. Before moving between various picture modes and settings made it almost impossible to quantify.

Once it starts, it will happen every time you change inputs.

Is there a way to toatally reset the TV and would that stop the problem?

No, I am not aware of any method. I will put some more effort into it later and try to get a better understanding of what is occuring.

Zigs, I think the highest stand is like 22"? Something like that. Your measurements are much larger than anything I've heard of. I would have someone stand against the wall and mark where the laser is when you sit in the chair with a laser. The center of the TV is supposed to be eye level.

Do the Sammys have memory when there is a power loss or does everything need to be set again?

Are you saying LCD RPs can process the video a lot faster than DLPs OR is there less processing required by LCD RPs?

One of those, yes. I'm not a TV designer, so I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing the LCD RP's have much lower processing overhead than DLP's (speaking in milliseconds). Spinning the little mirrors has got to take longer than flipping an LCD (again, speaking in milliseconds).

Not that it's that big a deal (unless you're a game fanatic), but I've got a Sony LCD RP, and my Samsung 1080p DLP should show up in a couple weeks, so I'll post definitive first person comparisons shortly.

First BIG Problem Identified ???

PROBLEM DEFINITION: When switching inputs the brightness or dynamic range of the picture is less than expected. This results in a degraded picture. I will have to wait until this evening to tell if it is the actual dynamic range of the image or just the brightness that is being affected. My guess is that the dynamic range is being reduced and this is a big problem!!!

For example, if you change from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2, the picture on HDMI 2 is not right. If you change back to HDMI1, the picture on HDMI 1 is not right. So as you change between your inputs you are always looking at a picture that is off. Once it starts, nothing will stop this from occuring.

This is the problem that calbert, jakepratt, and I reported, e.g. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6117771&&#post6117771.

I can confirm that switching any picture settings (I change the mode from Movie to something else, then back to Movie) fixes the problem until input is changed again, using the pack-in Samsung remote. I can see how sending the 'Movie' discrete code would accomplish the same thing.

For my non-HDMI inputs (e.g. Cable via direct coax), I believe I've seen the same effect. It's harder to accurately verify there, given the content I have available.

I haven't talked to Samsung about this yet.

OK, I haven't read about anyone having this "problem". I have my hlr5668 a little over two weeks now and this is the second time I have turned on the tv and had no sound.
If I hit mute and then "un-mute", sound is back. Not a major problem, but, definetly not right.
Anyone else have this happen?
TV is on HDMI-1, fed by an HR10-250 HD Tivo.

Thanks

Anybody having problems with the tv guide? Basically I get the program listings for a couple days and then for 3 days all the channels say "no listing". I am using the cable card....Could this be the problem?

My friend has the 5078 with SD Dish. The picture looked great on his SD 27" TV and now the picture looks worse. Is this the trade off of having a HDTV with SD or there something wrong or something I need to do? I mean now that you can really see how bad SD is the more I want my a HD DVD player. Just a note I saw Spiderman2 the other day on one of the Dish channels, not HBO or one of those movie channels and it didn't look too bad. Also I can tell the use of different camera PQ's such as the studio cams used at CNN are great.

Anybody having problems with the tv guide? Basically I get the program listings for a couple days and then for 3 days all the channels say "no listing". I am using the cable card....Could this be the problem?

I get nothing from the Samsung's tv guide. Since I watch almost evrything from an HD Tivo or a Replay, I haven't spent any time trying to figure out why (although I did o the setup twice).

WORKAROUND: Issuing a IR discrete code for the picture mode you are currently using. For example, if you are in STANDARD picture mode, issue the discrete code for Standard picture mode. The picture will immediately change ... lighten (expanded dynamic range?).

If anyone can confirm this problem or has any additional insights, please post.As draper mentioned, I can also confirm. Ccouper is the other individual who also reported this problem. I haven't tried any of the discrete codes.

I'll take another look at the problem tonight and let you know if I can figure anything else out.

OK, I haven't read about anyone having this "problem". I have my hlr5668 a little over two weeks now and this is the second time I have turned on the tv and had no sound.
If I hit mute and then "un-mute", sound is back. Not a major problem, but, definetly not right.
Anyone else have this happen?
TV is on HDMI-1, fed by an HR10-250 HD Tivo.

Thanks

Yes, I've had the exact same problem probably 4 or 5 times. Same solution to fix. I am also connected via HDMI to SA 8300HD DVR. A bit annoying.

Yes, I've had the exact same problem probably 4 or 5 times. Same solution to fix. I am also connected via HDMI to SA 8300HD DVR. A bit annoying.

I also have had the same exact problem. I am using HDMI 1 with 8300 dvr. I also find is strange that if i just touch the hdmi input into the tv, the connection goes bad for a few seconds (no picture just black). Is the HDMI input supposed to be that delicate? The only other problem I am having is with fast moving objects in HD. They seem to pixelize, especially when they are close. Is this just the cable signal? I have comcast with 8300 box connected through hdmi.

Does this possible firmware bug affect all the XX68 models or is it model specific. Also how would you update the firmware on these sets if a new firmware is issued.

I am looking at either the Samsung or the Sony Grand Wega 1920X1080 arriving at stores shortly. It sounds like many are beginning to experience problems with the Samsung DLP, or maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Is the S-video pic bad? How about HD? I currently own an old Pioneer Elite. It is a 58" RPTV and with it's built in line doubler it does a wonderful job on S-Video.

Thanks,

Lance

Any news on the "other" DLP's about how they compare to the Sammys? My friend just installed his, the PB is over Friday, my TVA rep isn't in today and I just would like to know all of my options, if there are any? I figure I have three days to put the order I had on hold to go through.

I am looking at either the Samsung or the Sony Grand Wega 1920X1080 arriving at stores shortly. It sounds like many are beginning to experience problems with the Samsung DLP, or maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Is the S-video pic bad? How about HD? I currently own an old Pioneer Elite. It is a 58" RPTV and with it's built in line doubler it does a wonderful job on S-Video.

Thanks,

Lance

- HD is awesome on the Samsungs.
- S-Video will be mediocre because:
a) The picture is higher quality then your Pioneer
b) S-Video is not high definition
c) Garbage in, Garbage Out basically.

If you use a low quality signal like that, and don't try to use component, dvi, or HDMI, then yes, it won't look that great.

The whole point of a HDTV is to USE the all digital connections for the best picture :).

As for the problems, as many have said "It's not many people having problems, it's the ones that do all post here". TVS had 250 or more TV's ordered from them, and I HIGHLY doubt all 250 people are posting here :)

- D

It sounds like many are beginning to experience problems with the Samsung DLP, or maybe I'm reading it wrong.

You are reading it wrong. I love my tv. It was awesome out of the box and I'm totally convinced it just gets better and better every day. DVD's are once again a joy to watch. I remember the early days of dvd's on my small 27" normal dvd when I first got them how impressed I was. Then the fun faded, but now its back.

What Sasmung DLP is 59.5 inches wide?
I have the 6168 and it is 56.9 inches wide. The 6768 is over 62 inches wide

Sorry....my 6178 is 56.9 wide too.

Anybody having problems with the tv guide? Basically I get the program listings for a couple days and then for 3 days all the channels say "no listing". I am using the cable card....Could this be the problem?
This happens to us if we watch the TV past midnight PT. Its fixed the next day.

This happens to us if we watch the TV past midnight PT. Its fixed the next day.

Same here. I wish the tuner could download the TV Guide data while the set is in use.

I am happy with mine, I believe people do tend to post only if they have problems, as problems lead to discussion.

Does this possible firmware bug affect all the XX68 models or is it model specific. Also how would you update the firmware on these sets if a new firmware is issued.

I think we are still trying to understand the extent of this problem. It could be limited to a few sets or be in all of them. We don't know how widespread it is at this point. If it turns out that a firmware upgrade is needed, it will be installed by a Samsung service technician.

I am happy with mine, I believe people do tend to post only if they have problems, as problems lead to discussion.

These sets are working well with very few problems, I am very impressed that we have found virtually no problems with them. The item I mentioned is very subtle and we are still trying to tie it down ... I don't think people should over react. Remember these are complex devices with extensive capabilities that have to integrate with outside source components and services.

My friend has the 5078 with SD Dish. The picture looked great on his SD 27" TV and now the picture looks worse. Is this the trade off of having a HDTV with SD or there something wrong or something I need to do? I mean now that you can really see how bad SD is the more I want my a HD DVD player. Just a note I saw Spiderman2 the other day on one of the Dish channels, not HBO or one of those movie channels and it didn't look too bad. Also I can tell the use of different camera PQ's such as the studio cams used at CNN are great.

#1 - Any non-HD picture on a small TV (e.g. 27") will always look worse when you stretch it to 50" or more. It's not the TV, it's the source material.

#2 - As someone above said, garbage in, garbage out. You just now have a TV that can display that garbage in all its glory.


Back in the day, when I went from a 27" TV to a 48" TV (regular, non-HD), it took me a few weeks to get used to the apparent picture degredation. In fact, the picture was the same, it was just more visible since it was larger. It's like taking a small passport picture and zooming it up to a 5x7. It will look worse.

Found this on remote central. From web site:

"Includes discrete inputs HDMI1, HDMI2, Component 1, Component 2, PC, S-Video 3, Power On, Power Off. Also includes Service menu, Test mode, and 2 Diagnostic mode keys. Please use these at your own risk! You could void your warrantly if you damage your set in one of these modes!"

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=mx700&db=devices&br=samsung&dv=television&md=hlr6178w&fc=&kw=&st=&ar=&dt=&so=&pg=1&file=mx700/devices/tv/sam-tv-slr6178w.zip

I noticed this also on the 5688.Thought it was my imagination being my first HDTV.When you select a different input say from standard to movie ect,seems to clear up a bit.As stated by a few

Edit:Returned my Pronto3000 for the 7000(bought online)so i cant try the discreet codes. Also I had the Harmony 880,which i thought was very unfriendly,the Pronto3000 for an extra 50.00 is a very versatile remote.I grade it well above the 880.

I received my 6768 from TVA on Friday, and thought I'd share my initial reactions. Warning! I'm an HDTV newbie, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

The box and set were in perfect condition upon delivery. After lifting off the box top, the first thing I did was remove the base. I can confirm that the 6768 only has 2 screws on the back holding on the base, as has been reported for other sizes. While the set was still supported by the packing materials, I gently raised one side of the set an inch or so and my wife slid out the center styrofoam. The base came off rather easily after removing the 2 screws at the back of the set.

The great:
Phyiscally, this set looks awesome in the space we have it in. I really like the form factor of the 68 series. The 67" is a perfect fit for the Plateau CR2-64, and our location. Our viewing distance is 16'. Following what I've read in this thread I've set the TV to Movie mode for night viewing. Because we have a lot of ambient light during the day, I've sometimes switched to standard mode during the day. The HD picture quality really is impressive! I can easily see individual hairs on people's heads. The HD picture quality is everything I hoped it would be.

The good:
SD picture quality is not bad at all. Significantly better than I had expected. Of course, it helps that we sit fairly far back. But even moving closer 4 or 5 feet it's still very watchable.

The bad:
I'm surprised and saddened by the fact that I see rainbows. I've never been able to see them in the stores, even in a darkened room. I have not seen any rainbows during the day, but at night they are obvious whenever I turn my head to look away from the screen. I'd say I can see maybe 6 or so an hour on average. This is in a lighted room with a backlight behind the set as well. I haven't decided how much this will be a problem for me. If it becomes a real annoyance, I may have to use TVA's 30 day return policy. I need to do a lot more viewing at all times of day to determine how much of an issue this will be for me. Any suggestions for decreasing rainbows will be appreciated.

Not the set's at fault, but another problem I experienced is poor cable signal. I convinced my local TWC office to provide me an HD8300 DVR without waiting for a tech to come out. My mistake. Now, after about 5-10 minutes of viewing my picture goes out and I receive the "weak or no signal" message. I have a tech scheduled for next Saturday to provide an amplifier which I hope will resolve the problem.

The ugly:
I originally had both my Oppo and the HD8300 audio connected to my AVR via either optical or coax. Lip sync was absolutely awful. The Oppo's 50 ms audio delay didn't help sufficiently. Although my testing was pretty limited, I didn't notice the lag changing over time. I am currently using red/white audio cables into the set itself, and I've experienced no audio delay at all. I plan on purchasing the Felston to resolve the problem, but I'm hesitating at the moment until I make a decision on the degree to which I need to be concerned about the RBE.

The really ugly:
In one of my short viewing experiences of Discovery HD before the cable signal was lost, I saw an interview with an orchestra conductor. While the picture was fantastic, I'd never before been subjected to viewing so much nose hair. Samsung engineers really need to do something about this if that sort of thing is pervasive. :rolleyes:

And now for some comments and questions so that you can really see just how much of a newbie I am! I've determined I don't know what the heck I'm doing with DVE. Maybe it's better that I leave well enough alone.

While in custom mode, I tried to adjust black level using the pluge test. I had previously adjusted my Oppo to brightness = +5 (following recommendations I read here). When adjusting the set, I couldn't see the 3rd black bars at all. I then jumped the Oppo up to +8 brightness, and this time I could adjust the set to see the black bars. My brightness level on the set turned out to be 51. Is it wrong to set the Oppo's brightness this high?

I couldn't seem to see any difference when adjusting contrast.
I didn't even begin to try adjusting colors.
I considered, but haven't yet gotten up the guts to enter the SM to adjust gamma to 0.

Given a fair amount of ambient light during the day, would the same calibrations result if I conducted the adjustments during the day as at night?

Finally, I'm convinced this is a really stupid question, but I don't mind looking stupid as much as I'm curious about the answer. Assuming I ever did learn how to adjust my set a bit on HDMI 2 (DVD connection), how does one adjust other inputs such as the cable box? For example, would I just copy the same numbers to either component or HDMI 1 (cable box)?

The Power Buy ends next Friday. I really want to order the 6768 but I see this thread continues to fill up with defects enherent in these sets. A new light engine in set #2! That sucks big time! I was prepared for the many "work arounds" on the lip sync issue, but the thought of the possibility of going through several replacement sets just to get a good one is worrisome. It begs the question that if your set has to be repaired right out of the box, then what are the long term prospects for future failures? There are few reports on the 67 inch model. Is it possible that Samsung has improved their QC with these sets? Any way to tell? And I have asked before for TVA to release percentage of returns to get a handle on this since many people with good sets will not post here.

I wonder how easy it is to replace the light engine? plug and play I suspect?

One thing to keep in mind with electronics in general is that most problems (outside of normal wear over the years) are out of box failures. If there are going to be problems, there usually evident quite early.

i think that is the one i am using on my tivo remote until i get around to programming my universal.

by any chance, does the volume on the tv change continously if you keep the volume buttons pressed? with that code, i have to do mulitple presses on the volume keys to adjust the volume incrementally. on the samsung remote, you can just keep the volume buttons pressed until you reach the desired volume levels.

I know you guys are talking about the custom codes, but for those reading, I found that 060 on the universal remotes seems to be a good starting point.

I noticed this also on the 5688.Thought it was my imagination being my first HDTV.When you select a different input say from standard to movie ect,seems to clear up a bit.As stated by a few

Edit:Returned my Pronto3000 for the 7000(bought online)so i cant try the discreet codes. Also I had the Harmony 880,which i thought was very unfriendly,the Pronto3000 for an extra 50.00 is a very versatile remote.I grade it well above the 880.

Go Steelers! Have you checked at the HTM MX-700 which is computer
programmable?

Hello,

My 6768 is on the way and I anxiously await connecting my xbox to it. But I'm worried.

I was originally very concerned with the possibility of lag ruining this TV as a gaming platform. Eventually I convinced myself not to worry because supposedly Microsoft and Samsung have some partnership to use these TVs as the main demo platform for xbox. That sounded hopeful. Also, I heard about the "game mode" that could be turned on for an input to reduce the processing/lag. All good things.

But then I read the user manual for the TV and it says that only 480i can be used in game mode on the component inputs. Not 720p or 1080i??

The xbox platform and many xbox games support higher resolutions (720p, 1080i). It is mandatory for me to be able to play these games at their full resolution on my new TV, without significant lag.

And I don't think there is any way to get signals with this sort of resolution into the TV other than via component since xbox doesn't have a digital port like DVI or HDMI. I think the Svideo lacks the bandwidth to carry those high resolution signals, right?

Anyone know the story on this? Is there a way to play 720p or 1080i xbox games on the HL-Rxx68 series without lag issues?

Thanks,
Dan

Hello,

My 6768 is on the way and I anxiously await connecting my xbox to it. But I'm worried.

I was originally very concerned with the possibility of lag ruining this TV as a gaming platform. Eventually I convinced myself not to worry because supposedly Microsoft and Samsung have some partnership to use these TVs as the main demo platform for xbox. That sounded hopeful. Also, I heard about the "game mode" that could be turned on for an input to reduce the processing/lag. All good things.

But then I read the user manual for the TV and it says that only 480i can be used in game mode on the component inputs. Not 720p or 1080i??

The xbox platform and many xbox games support higher resolutions (720p, 1080i). It is mandatory for me to be able to play these games at their full resolution on my new TV, without significant lag.

And I don't think there is any way to get signals with this sort of resolution into the TV other than via component since xbox doesn't have a digital port like DVI or HDMI. I think the Svideo lacks the bandwidth to carry those high resolution signals, right?

Anyone know the story on this? Is there a way to play 720p or 1080i xbox games on the HL-Rxx68 series without lag issues?

Thanks,
Dan

No ... lag of some sort is going to be an issue and given the large screen size it is going to be noticable. If this is a mandatory requirement, put your order on hold and go down to a store that has a 6768 and try it out with your xBox.

No ... lag of some sort is going to be an issue and given the large screen size it is going to be noticable. If this is a mandatory requirement, put your order on hold and go down to a store that has a 6768 and try it out with your xBox.I agree that you should, if possible, try to get your xbox hooked up to it to test for yourself. There have been reports of lag (including from me, myself and I) of differing degrees, from barely noticeable to intolerable ... probably depending upon each person's sensitivity, the types of games played, frequency of playing, etc. In my case, I don't play twitchy FPS's or play online, so the lag is not a factor for me -- it requires an adjustment, but once you've adjusted, it becomes second-nature and you don't think about it anymore. But you're not going to get a definitive answer on this one ... testing it out yourself at the store is your best bet if you can -- buying with a good return policy would be the next best thing.

Go Steelers! Have you checked at the HTM MX-700 which is computer
programmable?

I did looked at that one and when i tried the Pronto3000 I got spoiled lol.The screen is almost 4" and can insert my own bottons,place em where i want them.Someone sent me their setup and was blown away of how you can configure it.And it will control a puter.I would bet it would even start the car lol.
I have tickets for the monday night game in San Diego on the 10th woo hoo

I agree that you should, if possible, try to get your xbox hooked up to it to test for yourself. There have been reports of lag (including from me, myself and I) of differing degrees, from barely noticeable to intolerable ... probably depending upon each person's sensitivity, the types of games played, frequency of playing, etc. In my case, I don't play twitchy FPS's or play online, so the lag is not a factor for me -- it requires an adjustment, but once you've adjusted, it becomes second-nature and you don't think about it anymore. But you're not going to get a definitive answer on this one ... testing it out yourself at the store is your best bet if you can -- buying with a good return policy would be the next best thing.

Bummer. I feared as much. I'll press ahead and get my TV here so I can spend many hours experimenting. I don't feel comfortable spending that kind of time at a store that I have no intention of buying from. Its just not right. But I will say this - I'm not going to sell or even move my reliably old Sony XBR tube TV until I get through with the first few rounds of tests.

I just don't understand the 480i constraint for game mode. It seems like 480i would require MORE processing than 720p or 1080i since these signals have already been deinterlaced or scaled to the display resolution. There should be less lag with either signal. I don' t see why they would prohibit them.<sigh>

Have you confirmed the statements I made in my original email by real tests on your setup?
Could you notice that game mode solved/improved the lag problem but only at 480i? Maybe on certain types of games I'll be forced to stay at SD resolutions to live within this constraint.
What happens if you have game mode turned on over a component input and you setup your xbox/play a game at a higher resolution than 480i?
Is there a way to get higher resolution xbox signal to the TV other than via component? Where does SVideo break?

Thanks,
Dan

The bad:
I'm surprised and saddened by the fact that I see rainbows. I've never been able to see them in the stores, even in a darkened room. I have not seen any rainbows during the day, but at night they are obvious whenever I turn my head to look away from the screen. I'd say I can see maybe 6 or so an hour on average. This is in a lighted room with a backlight behind the set as well. I haven't decided how much this will be a problem for me. If it becomes a real annoyance, I may have to use TVA's 30 day return policy. I need to do a lot more viewing at all times of day to determine how much of an issue this will be for me. Any suggestions for decreasing rainbows will be appreciated.

I also saw rainbows for the first time a few weeks ago on my 6168. I think it started when I watched Sin City in B&W... GREAT PQ! But the rainbows seemed much more prominent with the mostly B&W picture. Now, I can see them pretty easily whenever there is quite a bit of contrast. BUT... after a few days of being annoyed, they really don't bother me at all anymore. They are there, but I rarely notice them, and when I do, it's just no big deal. The overall PQ is so amazingly wonderful that the rainbows just don't matter. And by the way, neither my wife nor my 3 teenage daughters have ever noticed them. (But then they've never heard of them either... and I'm sure not going to say anything ;) )

Funny, I'm going to try not to look for these "issues" on my friend's 5078. I certainly won't mention it to him either. I think once you find one, more and more will pop up. In two minutes I could tell the different camera PQ's used by the networks on Dish SD. CNN in the studio right now seemed to have one of the best cameras.

Hey guys,

I have a quick question. Sorry if it has been answered already, but I can't find any related posts.

I just got my Comcast 6412 STB/DVR. I want to be able to watch TV through the set speakers 90% of the time and 10% get the audio through my AVR. Can someone confirm my cable path to be able to achieve this?

6412(STB/DVR) --- > to 5668 via DVI to HDMI cable on HDMI-1 (it is my understanding that this will not pass audio).

6412 (STB/DVR) ---> to 5668 via L/R RCA cables for audio

6412 (STB/DVR) ---> to AVR via Digital Coax

My questions are:
1. Will this configuration give me the results I listed above?

2. Since I can't get audio via the DVI to HDMI cable, how do I tell the 5668 which audio input to using when viewing HDMI-1 and will this setup introduce lip sync problems using the set speakers.

I haven't purchased any cables to do this, so if someone has the same configuration and can get the results listed above using diffrerent cables and pathes, that would be helpful also.

I would prefer to use the HDMI ports for video because the PQ is great via those ports.

Also, how do I get a second signal to the 5668 to be able to use PIP?
1. Can I use another output from the 6412 (STB/DVR)?

2. Can I just connect a COAX in to Antenna 1? If so, will I be able to view anything beyond channel 125?

Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated. As always, thanks to everyone for all the posts. Before finding this forum and purchasing this set, I was one of those people who are completely content watching crappy cable on a crappy TV. But now, I think I've caught the HD bug.

Thanks again.
-dreamr

Here is a link to some information about 1080i video processing.

Video Processing Chips (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6147962&&#post6147962)

I am happy with mine, I believe people do tend to post only if they have problems, as problems lead to discussion.

I have had mine for almost 3 weeks now and have had zero problems. I have a Samsung HD850 DVD player hooked up via HDMI and it makes DVDs gorgeous.

Now to get an HDMI cable for the 8300HD DVR. :D

I will be getting my samsung 6168 soon...and wanted to know what cables I would need...as I am a newbie to the HD arena...I know everyone keeps saying that you have to get good quality cables to connect your componets or you have degradation in signal quality...I will be connecting a dvd, directtv hd dvr, a receiver and speakers to the set....what brand cables should I look for and how much is a good price to pay for them....also I was told something about getting some kind of surge protector that has a battery in it that will leave the tv turned on if the electricity goes out so i can manually turn off the power...how much is that and what suggestions do you guys have for a particular kind...thanks for any info....

Anyone have the Motorola 6208 HD DVR STB from Comcast or someone else for that matter connected to a Sammy? I think it has a 80GB drive, which is not much but maybe average for HD DVR? It mentions Firewire out to record additional HD content. Comcast said that is the only HD DVR available in MA at this time. I confirmed it three times to be sure.

Hey Guys,

Has anyone received their warranty package yet. I had my set delievered on 8-19. I still haven't received anything about the RepairMaster warranty.

-dreamr

Mine was delivered on 7/28 and I just got my warranty package 10 days ago.

Anyone have the Motorola 6208 HD DVR STB from Comcast or someone else for that matter connected to a Sammy? I think it has a 80GB drive, which is not much but maybe average for HD DVR? It mentions Firewire out to record additional HD content. Comcast said that is the only HD DVR available in MA at this time. I confirmed it three times to be sure.

I have a Comcast Motorola 6412 and it is a very nice product. It has 120 GB drive instead of the 80 GB. I highly recommend it. I find it really difficult to believe that Comcast is still buying the 6408, which became obsolete about a year ago when the 6412 was introduced.

And by the way, neither my wife nor my 3 teenage daughters have ever noticed them. (But then they've never heard of them either... and I'm sure not going to say anything ;) )

Glad to hear that you haven't been bothered by the rainbows you might see. I'm hoping I'll be in the same boat.

The above quote made me laugh. My wife hasn't said anything about seeing rainbows, and I haven't mentioned them to her either!

Thanks for the info Bill, once again! That's why I started investigating. I don't know if I mentioned it but Dish will only "lease" one HD DVR per account, for $250, for new customers. They won't lease any additional ones even if you offer them another $250. My friend and I are splitting the bill so we have "2" HDTVs which I guess they never heard of.

I just don't understand the 480i constraint for game mode. It seems like 480i would require MORE processing than 720p or 1080i since these signals have already been deinterlaced or scaled to the display resolution. There should be less lag with either signal. I don' t see why they would prohibit them.<sigh>My best guess is that the Samsung engineers didn't expect a lag problem at 480p, 720p or 1080i ... but they knew they had a problem for 480i console signals, so they designed GAME mode specifically for that format.

To thinly support that assumption, I believe (but don't hold me to this) that there aren't many reports of lag problems with xbox games running 480p or 720p, with the exception of Halo 2 and a couple others. However, I think many of those observations were with the 720p xx67 series Samsung DLPs. Can't remember if the observations have been similar on these 1080p sets.

Have you confirmed the statements I made in my original email by real tests on your setup?Yes, although not extensively. See below.

Could you notice that game mode solved/improved the lag problem but only at 480i? Maybe on certain types of games I'll be forced to stay at SD resolutions to live within this constraint.Yes, GAME mode definitely improved the lag problem at 480i only. This is most noticeable with any game that has a meter. In my case, I tested kickoffs in NCAA Football 2004 for over an hour, and found that the lag was quite noticeable without GAME mode, but was at least halved when using GAME mode. During actual gameplay (running, passing, etc.), the lag was much less apparent. Even using the kickoff meter, I was able to adjust after 10 minutes or so -- but that's me.

What happens if you have game mode turned on over a component input and you setup your xbox/play a game at a higher resolution than 480i?In that case it will not work. It's important to realize that GAME mode does absolutely nothing to the incoming signal. It will take effect only when fed a 480i signal -- you can see this when feeding the tv a 480i signal: Change the input label on the tv from "---" to "GAME" and you'll see the screen refresh after a second. Change the input label back to something else and it'll refresh again. This refreshing does not happen if a 480p, 720p or 1080i signal is enabled on your xbox.

Is there a way to get higher resolution xbox signal to the TV other than via component? Where does SVideo break?S-Video won't give you any benefits over component, except for a lower fidelity image -- if you like that sort of thing.

I'm not aware of any other way to get your xbox signal into the tv. Someone last week was tossing around the idea of a component to VGA adapter, but I don't think it panned out. If the xbox 360 will have a VGA output, that may be our best hope for avoiding the lag problems without sacrificing resolution. If all or most of its games are 1080i, it's quite possible that lag won't be an issue over any input, since the tv won't have that much to process. Those are a lot of "if's" ...

Is there a way to get higher resolution xbox signal to the TV other than via component?


EDIT: Calbert beat me to most of this =)

You could buy a VGA adapter and run it through VGA, there's a thread somewhere in the gaming forum on an XBOX VGA adapter setup. Seems like alot of work.

After playing Xbox and PS2 on my 5078 for almost 3 weeks now, I can say the dreaded "gaming lag" only affects me in first person shooters. For basically anything but FPS games, I don't even notice the lag at all or even perceive that it's there. Everything from Forza to Prince of Persia to Splinter Cell feels totally fine.

For FPS games, the lag is noticable. However, I've adapted to the lag the point where I find them perfectly playable (so far tried Darkwatch, Area 51, Unreal Championship 2, Halo 2). My accuracy has definetly gone down a notch and it would definetly hurt my "competitiveness" were I really serious into playing competitively online, but for me that's not a big issue.

It's also slightly odd because while i'm sure the lag is constant, it "feels" different depending on the game. I.e. Halo 2 moves at a slower framerate with a slightly more sluggish response rate to begin with, so the set-induced lag is perhaps most noticable in that title since the lag sits on top of the slightly slower "baseline" responsiveness of the game. But for something like Unreal Championship 2, where the game responds super-fast to user input, the lag doesn't feel quite as horrible, since the "baseline" response is so fast.

Then again, i'm not a "competitive" gamer; even though I game a whole lot i'm more gregarious and casual in my play. So if you're really, really serious into gaming, the issue might be more of a dealbreaker for you.

Also one note r.e. "do 720p games show lag?" In my experience it's still there, but very minimal. I play Amped 2 at 720p and when I first made the switch to my new set I had to "re-learn" how early to release the jump button to take off at the peaks of jumps and whatnot. But the lag struck me as incredibly minor and I adapted within a minute. I probably would never have noticed had I started the game on the new set. Others I believe have reported that the 2K baseball game *does* show lag even at 720p, so I think the verdict is still out

Whenever I switch to HDMI2 on my 6168 I get this pop up:

"Your HDTV does not support HDCP. Use YPrPb component connections ..."

What is this all about? The TV eventually kicks in and shows the picture but I am wondering if this set is odd or has a problem?

As I understand the status with the discrete remote codes this is a summary:

1) Inputs-we have all the discrete input codes except the Ant (the internal tuner or the television), and there is no way to access the 2 different antenna inputs without toggling once you are on the internal tuner of the set. The shortest workaround in a macro based remote is HDMI2 (E9) and a .2 sec delay followed by the "source" code.

2) Discrete on and off appear to work well on the HLRxx68 sets with codes provided from the HLP sets. One caveat, if you wish to switch to a "most common" input prior to shutting the set off, give the unit atleast a .5sec between the input switch and the discrete off code. In addition, the unit will not switch inputs until about 9.5 seconds after receiving the discrete on code. The best way to get this to work consistently is to place the television on the same input just prior to power off (as part of a system off macro). There appears to be some minor variability in the duration of this interval when you do not jump from a "known" input to a discrete selection.

3) Still lacking a discrete method to perform a PIP switch.

4) ? Discrete aspect ratio selection

Thanks for any assistance.

As I understand the status with the discrete remote codes this is a summary:

1) Inputs-we have all the discrete input codes except the Ant (the internal tuner or the television), and there is no way to access the 2 different antenna inputs without toggling once you are on the internal tuner of the set. The shortest workaround in a macro based remote is HDMI2 (E9) and a .2 sec delay followed by the "source" code.

Hmmm . . . I thought 01 was a discrete code to switch to the internal tuner, at least it seemed to work when I used it yesterday, but I didn't do enough testing to be sure.

4) ? Discrete aspect ratio selection

There are codes for 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios, as well as zoom1, zoom2 and panorama. I don't recall what they are, but they were in one of the MX-700 files at remote central. Unfortunately, I don't think there's an easy way to see the actual code from the mxd files.

Anyone have the Motorola 6208 HD DVR STB from Comcast or someone else for that matter connected to a Sammy? I think it has a 80GB drive, which is not much but maybe average for HD DVR? It mentions Firewire out to record additional HD content. Comcast said that is the only HD DVR available in MA at this time. I confirmed it three times to be sure.

It is not the only one they are giving out in MA. I just got mine and after talking to them they were going to give me a older model. I specifically asked for a 6412 like someone told me to and they gave one to me. I would try asking again. I'm in New Bedford, about 50 miles south of Boston. Is that close to you?

Good Luck
-dreamr

01 replicates the source button on the remote with my 6168. I will look up the aspect-thanks for the input, though I am using a pronto.

Hmmm . . . I thought 01 was a discrete code to switch to the internal tuner, at least it seemed to work when I used it yesterday, but I didn't do enough testing to be sure.

01 appears to be SOURCE ... so it will appear to switch you to the internal tuner if you do not have any active inputs between your current input and TV.

There are codes for 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios, as well as zoom1, zoom2 and panorama. I don't recall what they are, but they were in one of the MX-700 files at remote central. Unfortunately, I don't think there's an easy way to see the actual code from the mxd files.

Go back a few pages in this thread and you will find those codes.

Hello,

My 6768 is on the way and I anxiously await connecting my xbox to it. But I'm worried.

I was originally very concerned with the possibility of lag ruining this TV as a gaming platform. Eventually I convinced myself not to worry because supposedly Microsoft and Samsung have some partnership to use these TVs as the main demo platform for xbox. That sounded hopeful. Also, I heard about the "game mode" that could be turned on for an input to reduce the processing/lag. All good things.

But then I read the user manual for the TV and it says that only 480i can be used in game mode on the component inputs. Not 720p or 1080i??

The xbox platform and many xbox games support higher resolutions (720p, 1080i). It is mandatory for me to be able to play these games at their full resolution on my new TV, without significant lag.

And I don't think there is any way to get signals with this sort of resolution into the TV other than via component since xbox doesn't have a digital port like DVI or HDMI. I think the Svideo lacks the bandwidth to carry those high resolution signals, right?

Anyone know the story on this? Is there a way to play 720p or 1080i xbox games on the HL-Rxx68 series without lag issues?

Thanks,
Dan

Well, i just hooked my xbox up to my 6168 to test this lag issue. First off, i dont have the HD cables for the xbox, i just used the AV ones , which doesnt allow me to use game mode. So, im not sure how much game mode can help, but the lag is bad. I was playing MVP 2005 which has a meter type bar that relies alot on exact timing, and it was off by alot. Also when batting, it was very delayed. Does game mode fix this issue ? Will any firmware update be able to solve this problem ? I really want to enjoy my xbox on this set, but im not sure i will be able too. I dont know if this is a deal breaker or not, the picture with HD is sooo nice... dunno what to do.

There's also a table of remote codes for other models from Samsung at http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer/DownloadAnsTempl?AT_ID=5718&SEQ_NO=1

Many of the codes for the HLR models are the same as older models.

After months of people telling us we were crazy to be buying these Samsung 1080p sets and not waiting to see the Mitsubishi DLP's and other 1080p sets, I finally had the chance to see another 1080p set ... I was down at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon (CA) today and had the chance to look at the new 62" Mitsu 1080p DLP they had on display. It was totally disappointing. As anyone following this thread knows, I spend quite a bit of time looking at and analyzing these sets ... my thoughts were echoed by the Magnolia staff. The new Samsungs were clearly better by a surprising margin, not even close. How could this happen? I know that several people were waiting to see these new sets and I would encourage you to go down and take a look.

So ... time to take a collective exhale ... if anyone has any ideas about what went wrong with the Mitsu sets, I would be very curious. I absolutely would not spend the money that they wanted for the set that I was looking at ... I would go 720p first.

There's also a table of remote codes for other models from Samsung at http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer/DownloadAnsTempl?AT_ID=5718&SEQ_NO=1

Many of the codes for the HLR models are the same as older models.

Many of these codes do not work ... specifically, the HDMI 2 code is wrong, should be E9. The ANT code does not work either. But, many of the other codes do work, as do most of the codes in the sample HLN/HLP files on remotecentral.com.

After months of people telling us we were crazy to be buying these Samsung 1080p sets and not waiting to see the Mitsubishi DLP's and other 1080p sets, I finally had the chance to see another 1080p set ... I was down at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon (CA) today and had the chance to look at the new 62" Mitsu 1080p DLP they had on display. It was totally disappointing. As anyone following this thread knows, I spend quite a bit of time looking at and analyzing these sets ... my thoughts were echoed by the Magnolia staff. The new Samsungs were clearly better by a surprising margin, not even close. How could this happen? I know that several people were waiting to see these new sets and I would encourage you to go down and take a look.

So ... time to take a collective exhale ... if anyone has any ideas about what went wrong with the Mitsu sets, I would be very curious.

The 52 in. is stunning. The problem appears to be the light engine for the 62 in.

I have been told the 73 in. will be better than the 62 in. ...

P.S. I should clarify that I havn't seen any HD on the 52 in. besided the standard
Mits feed and did not notice much additional detail from that feed on the 52 in.
DVDs were the same awesome quality as on the Sammy's...

The 52 in. is stunning. The problem appears to be the light engine for the 62 in.

I have been told the 73 in. will be better than the 62 in. ...

Have you had the chance to compare the 52" Mitsu to a 50" or 56" Samsung ... how did they compare?

Have you had the chance to compare the 52" Mitsu to a 50" or 56" Samsung ... how did they compare?

See above - looks like we were typing at the same time. Haven't seen a 50 or 56 Sammy but the 50 in. Mits was same ball park with DVDs as my 61 in. Sammy -
great black levels and shadow detail. The only HD I seen was the Mits HD feed commented on above.

Here is my report from Ken Krane's in West LA:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5830429&&#post5830429

Anyone had a screen replaced? What was it for? My tech has ordered the light engine and a screen at the suggestion from Samsung.

Dreamr, thanks for the info! That's why I spent a long time checking their site and making the calls, being put on hold, disconnected and transferred several times only to get the "wrong" answer. That just ticks me off. I'm in Malden, just minutes north of Boston. I'd go Dish except for their one HD DVR policy. I think that is ridiculous and could lose customers like me.

FLApilot, isn't it faster or better to exchange the set? Does it sort of work? Was that a TVA purchase? I can't see having any down time with a new set. I feel your pain.

Anyone had a screen replaced? What was it for? My tech has ordered the light engine and a screen at the suggestion from Samsung.
Why did you get a new screen? My light engine is coming tomorrow.

THIS TV SUCKS! :)

It makes real life...well, kinda dull by comparison. Got my new 6168 today. The box and delivery was exceptional.. I've been watching it and fiddling around with some of the settings for about 4 hours. Watched HDTV OTA & LOTR DVD with my HTPC and I've never seen anything like it. Anything over the PC has no video lag. My Humax HFA100 ATSC receiver has bad variable lag. Fortunately, I don't have to use it.

Watched a few minutes of Sci Fi channel on my DirecTivo SD connected with an S-cable. It was a little grainy, just as I expected, but very watchable and no noticeable video lag in the few minutes I watched it.

A local custom home theatre installer/calibrationist/home theatre columinist recently calibrated a 6168 and recommended caution to me in the purchase of this set based on specific findings. His concern was regarding his attempt to adjust gray scale. The internal controls ran out of range, even when starting in the warm2 position. The best he could accomplish was a relatively flat grayscale at about 8,500K moving to about 9,000K at peak white. This is 2,000K+ above where it needs to be to get accurate reproduction of ANY image. Anyone have similar problems with this? I'll be contacting Samsung to see what they have to say re: this potential problem. I suppose it could have been an anomoly to this one set, and others won't have this problem. But maybe not. Anyone in this forum have their 1080p professionally calibrated? Or has anyone properly trained attempted to calibrate one?

Well, here's an reply to my own post! I just read David Abrams, ISF calibrationist, post on page 125. I need to read it a couple times to be sure I understand.

I'll just edit this post. I've read David's post a couple times, and he clearly states, "With proper calibration both the color primaries, secondaries, and grayscale may be corrected to SMPTE specifications.". So now I have to consider why my contact feels the grayscale cannot be properly adjusted, and a second calibrationist states that it can?

Well, here's an reply to my own post! I just read David Abrams, ISF calibrationist, post on page 125. I need to read it a couple times to be sure I understand.

I'll just edit this post. I've read David's post a couple times, and he clearly states, "With proper calibration both the color primaries, secondaries, and grayscale may be corrected to SMPTE specifications.". So now I have to consider why my contact feels the grayscale cannot be properly adjusted, and a second calibrationist states that it can?

David Abrams is a ISF Calibrationist trainer and trains ISF calibrationist. He also
uses very expensive and accurate equipement. Its possible you have a defective
set?

David Abrams is a ISF Calibrationist trainer and trains ISF calibrationist. He also uses very expensive and accurate equipement. Its possible you have a defective
set?Yes, that is possible. The set isn't mine. My contact calibrated a 6168 for a client of his, and then reported his findings to me, as I've been waiting to hear the calibration results of, specifically, a 6168 for some time. We did mention the possibility of the set being defective (an anomoly). That's why I want to contact Samsung. I also wonder what equipment my contact is using. His experience/knowledge isn't in question.

Well, i just hooked my xbox up to my 6168 to test this lag issue. First off, i dont have the HD cables for the xbox, i just used the AV ones , which doesnt allow me to use game mode. So, im not sure how much game mode can help, but the lag is bad. I was playing MVP 2005 which has a meter type bar that relies alot on exact timing, and it was off by alot. Also when batting, it was very delayed. Does game mode fix this issue ? Will any firmware update be able to solve this problem ? I really want to enjoy my xbox on this set, but im not sure i will be able too. I dont know if this is a deal breaker or not, the picture with HD is sooo nice... dunno what to do.

Could you please try a game besides MVP 2005 or Halo 2. Those are the only games that I have seen lag reported on, albeit a number of times. May I suggest Madden 06 or NCAA 06, or maybe the new Rainbow Six game, or even GTA San Andreas.

Does anyone have any idea when samsung will release a new line of 1080p DLPs? Seems like there are some issues to be ironed out, that Samsung would be smart to update before releasing a new line of new and improved models. or would they just update the current models to fix the existing problems?

Are we talking like 6 months or a year or more? any info would be much appreciated!

Also, will any of the new 1080p tv's (mits, toshiba, etc...) be able to compete with sammy's current hl-rxxx8 models?

Thanks!

Does anyone have any idea when samsung will release a new line of 1080p DLPs? Seems like there are some issues to be ironed out, that Samsung would be smart to update before releasing a new line of new and improved models. or would they just update the current models to fix the existing problems?

Are we talking like 6 months or a year or more? any info would be much appreciated!

Also, will any of the new 1080p tv's (mits, toshiba, etc...) be able to compete with sammy's current hl-rxxx8 models?

Thanks!

The 2006 product line will be shown at CES in January 2006 and start shipping (probably) in May thru July 2006. The current sets just came out, in fact, two models 6768 (shipping) and 7178 (not shipping yet) haven't reached many retailers. Samsung will tweak the 2005 sets as the year proceeds with firmware and other upgrades.

We will just have to wait and see how other 1080p sets look when they are released.

After months of people telling us we were crazy to be buying these Samsung 1080p sets and not waiting to see the Mitsubishi DLP's and other 1080p sets, I finally had the chance to see another 1080p set ... I was down at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon (CA) today and had the chance to look at the new 62" Mitsu 1080p DLP they had on display. It was totally disappointing. As anyone following this thread knows, I spend quite a bit of time looking at and analyzing these sets ... my thoughts were echoed by the Magnolia staff. The new Samsungs were clearly better by a surprising margin, not even close. How could this happen? I know that several people were waiting to see these new sets and I would encourage you to go down and take a look.

So ... time to take a collective exhale ... if anyone has any ideas about what went wrong with the Mitsu sets, I would be very curious. I absolutely would not spend the money that they wanted for the set that I was looking at ... I would go 720p first.

I am surprised by this. I have looked at both the Samsung and the Mitsubishi in a couple of different stores. I though both sets looked very good. Did not see where the Samsung really outshined the Mitsubishi or vice versa. In fact, several people have mentioned that the Mits appeared to have slightly better colors and more detail. I am still on the fence on which one to buy, but am leaning heavily towards the Mitsubishi, since I will be playing some games on it.

I was taking a look in my service menu and noticed the actuator adjustment for the wobulation... Displaying the test pattern reveals slight steps in the straight lines when using the default setting (90)... If I increase the actuator adjustment to 104 I am able to, for the most part, get rid of all the tiny steps and smooth all of the lines out. Does it hurt the set to have this setting at 104? Is there a limit to how high the actuator setting can be? It definitely makes a difference when viewing PC content...

Best regards,

Steve

I am surprised by this. I have looked at both the Samsung and the Mitsubishi in a couple of different stores. I though both sets looked very good. Did not see where the Samsung really outshined the Mitsubishi or vice versa. In fact, several people have mentioned that the Mits appeared to have slightly better colors and more detail. I am still on the fence on which one to buy, but am leaning heavily towards the Mitsubishi, since I will be playing some games on it.

I will take another look at the 62" Mitsu. On my next trip, I will see what can be done with the settings. Until I go back and give it my best shot at dialing in the picture, it would not be fair to say any more about the Mitsu.

Well, i just hooked my xbox up to my 6168 to test this lag issue. First off, i dont have the HD cables for the xbox, i just used the AV ones , which doesnt allow me to use game mode. So, im not sure how much game mode can help, but the lag is bad. I was playing MVP 2005 which has a meter type bar that relies alot on exact timing, and it was off by alot. Also when batting, it was very delayed. Does game mode fix this issue ? Will any firmware update be able to solve this problem ? I really want to enjoy my xbox on this set, but im not sure i will be able too. I dont know if this is a deal breaker or not, the picture with HD is sooo nice... dunno what to do.

Game mode won’t do anything for the game, unless you force the xbox into 480i by turning off all the other resolution options in the xbox console.

Make sure you try as wide a variety of games as possible. MVP along with Halo2 are often mentioned as laggy so it’s possible it could be something game related and not necessarily a 100% TV issue.

I would also recommend you purchase the HD pack for the xbox so you can test game mode. Forcing the xbox into 480i may dramatically reduce the lag your experiencing, but at the expense of PQ. It may be a trade off your willing to make but only you can decide that.

From my personal experience, there is lag. I notice it almost exclusively in FPS, primarily in the aiming, but I found that I adjusted to it rather quickly and it’s not a big issue. I’ve played games like Psychonauts( a platformer), Ninja Gaiden (a fast action game) Project Gotham Racing 2 and numerous others and didn’t notice much lag. Certainly nothing that made the game unplayable.

I should note though that I rarely play sports games so that’s an area where the lag may be more noticeable. Also if you play on xbox live, the lag may put you at a competitive disadvantage.

The lag issue seems to vary considerably by the individual. Some report horrendous lag in a game like Halo 2, while someone like me notices it, but still finds the game very playable.

Thanks very much Calbert and Nvrlnd for your detailed and helpful responses to my questions about game lag on the HLR's.

<edited> Wow, I just saw some additional posts from others in response to my questions and thanks to you all as well.

I'll let you know how it works out for me in around a week!

-Dan

Well, here's an reply to my own post! I just read David Abrams, ISF calibrationist, post on page 125. I need to read it a couple times to be sure I understand.

I'll just edit this post. I've read David's post a couple times, and he clearly states, "With proper calibration both the color primaries, secondaries, and grayscale may be corrected to SMPTE specifications.". So now I have to consider why my contact feels the grayscale cannot be properly adjusted, and a second calibrationist states that it can?I would get your guy to talk to David, his partner Eliab, Steve Martin, or SethS who wrote the current calibration manual for the Samsung DLP sets. Seth will be writing one for the 1080p sets very soon.

As I understand it, there are some special characteristics of the Samsung sets that a calibrator needs to know about in addition to having the right equipment.

Here are some links with more information.

A SethS 1080p Calibration (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6074893&&#post6074893)

Eliab and Steve Martin (one message down) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5822218&&#post5822218)

Seth Schnaible (SethS) can be contacted at:

AVConsulting (http://www.avconsulting.us/)

And at:
(831)459-9704
seth@avconsulting.us

Of course Seth will be at CEDIA at some point this week.

I was taking a look in my service menu and noticed the actuator adjustment for the wobulation... Displaying the test pattern reveals slight steps in the straight lines when using the default setting (90)... If I increase the actuator adjustment to 104 I am able to, for the most part, get rid of all the tiny steps and smooth all of the lines out. Does it hurt the set to have this setting at 104? Is there a limit to how high the actuator setting can be? It definitely makes a difference when viewing PC content...

Best regards,

Steve
I think it will be OK to leave it there. Here is an owner report from one of the first 1080p calibrations.

"One of the service menus has an entry called "actuator gain". This is kind of like convergence for the wobulator. Before he tweaked it, on a test pattern with very thin white lines, I could see that the edges were slightly "sawtoothed" in the diamond-pixel pattern of the wobulated chip. As he tweaked it, the diamonds converged, and the edges of the lines became completely straight."

1080p Calibration by SethS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6074893&&#post6074893)

Good luck.

After months of people telling us we were crazy to be buying these Samsung 1080p sets and not waiting to see the Mitsubishi DLP's and other 1080p sets, I finally had the chance to see another 1080p set ... I was down at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon (CA) today and had the chance to look at the new 62" Mitsu 1080p DLP they had on display. It was totally disappointing. As anyone following this thread knows, I spend quite a bit of time looking at and analyzing these sets.

What was it that you thought looked bad with the Mits pic? I haven't seen the 62" 1080p Mits, but the 52" at the Magnolia in Seattle looked comparable to the Sammy. The color temp looked different between the two, with the Sammy leaning towards red and the Mits towards blue. Untouched, the Mits had better shadow detail than the Sammy, but it also looked a little more washed out. Honestly, I hesitated to write any impressions of the two because I didn't have time to play with the settings. I can say that the 720p Mits that was sitting next to the 1080p had a horribly green cast to the picture and it looked considerably softer than the 1080p.

Folks, I'm a little confused here!!!!!

Three weeks ago, I was 95% sure that I was going to get a new Samsung 6168. Now, there seems to some significant issues that "several" board members have identified. Some board members who I had considered to be "cheerleaders" have changed their minds and bought other brands. That, in itself, speaks volumes!!!!!!

What is the general consensus about the overall quality and value of the Samsungs?

Is it worth while to wait a little longer and see what the other manufacturers come out with?

I hear "strong" rumors that the price will drop, significantly, over the next month or two? Anyone else hearing the same?

Seems like TVA is ending their Powerbuy a little early. Wonder why? Really?

I have had my 5668 for about 2 weeks now and am not quite sure that I am going to keep it. Partially from all that I have read on this forum and also my tv has a few issues. The picture is mostly too dark. I guess it is black crush. It looks great on football and a few dvd movies but when I am watching high def direct tv most shows are just too dark. I have to wait until night time to really get enjoyment out of this tv. I also have a slight bit of bowing on my black bars for 4:3. I am really worried about the darkness more than anything. I get no detail on the shadey sides of peoples faces. Also if 2 or 3 people are standing next to each other in black suits they kinda blend together.

I do still get the enjoyment out of the dvd movies though. I have to watch those on my old toshiba dvd with component cables since my new hd950 is only good for the dvd audio/sacd. It does not work well with the hdmi. Maybe component input is working better than my hdmi?

I still have a little time to decide the fate of my new tv. I don't want to return it since I spent so much time and expense getting ready for it. It does have a stunning picture at times. I don't know if I can go back to sd either.

I wish I would have waited a while before this purchase.

It would have to drop with the models from Mits, and Toshiba being cheaper. Samsung would have to drop the prices to compete.

I have had my 5668 for about 2 weeks now and am not quite sure that I am going to keep it. Partially from all that I have read on this forum and also my tv has a few issues. The picture is mostly too dark. I guess it is black crush. It looks great on football and a few dvd movies but when I am watching high def direct tv most shows are just too dark. I have to wait until night time to really get enjoyment out of this tv. I also have a slight bit of bowing on my black bars for 4:3. I am really worried about the darkness more than anything. I get no detail on the shadey sides of peoples faces. Also if 2 or 3 people are standing next to each other in black suits they kinda blend together.

I do still get the enjoyment out of the dvd movies though. I have to watch those on my old toshiba dvd with component cables since my new hd950 is only good for the dvd audio/sacd. It does not work well with the hdmi. Maybe component input is working better than my hdmi?

I still have a little time to decide the fate of my new tv. I don't want to return it since I spent so much time and expense getting ready for it. It does have a stunning picture at times. I don't know if I can go back to sd either.

I wish I would have waited a while before this purchase.

What have you done to adjust your TV?

I have tried many different settings on my custom setting. I have bumped up the brightness and set the contrast from all settings 75 to 100. I do not have dve, I ordered it through amazon and am waiting. I used the optimizer on incredibles dvd and got a good picture on the dvd player but when I switch to direct tv hdtivo hdmi 1 the picture turns very dark.

I have tried many different settings on my custom setting. I have bumped up the brightness and set the contrast from all settings 75 to 100. I do not have dve, I ordered it through amazon and am waiting. I used the optimizer on incredibles dvd and got a good picture on the dvd player but when I switch to direct tv hdtivo hdmi 1 the picture turns very dark.


That sounds like the problem UCSB was discribing a few pages back where if you change your input the PQ would be reduced. I believe they said if switch from the piture mode you are in to custom and back the PQ is restored and the picture lightens.

has anyone with a jp1 universal remote done anything with the samsung discrete codes yet? thanks in advance.

Could you please try a game besides MVP 2005 or Halo 2. Those are the only games that I have seen lag reported on, albeit a number of times. May I suggest Madden 06 or NCAA 06, or maybe the new Rainbow Six game, or even GTA San Andreas.

Dont have too many games, but i will try madden 2005 tonight. I didnt go into the console and change any settings yet either, i wasnt sure on how to do it. I am assuming that if i turn it on with out a game in the drive that i can enter the setup menu that way. i will play around with it some more, but im really curious to find out why samsungs have this lag, and why other DLP's may not ?

If the new Mitsubishi has equal or better PQ and has no lag in games then why would anyone go with a sammy over the Mitsu ? I may also call samsung and see what they say about this game lag and if they plan to fix it with some firmware ? If not, i may exchange this set for something else at TVA...

I also have not gotten any answers or insite on why there is not much detail in darker scenes on dvd's. I wish i was an ISF Caliberator :(

That sounds like the problem UCSB was discribing a few pages back where if you change your input the PQ would be reduced. I believe they said if switch from the piture mode you are in to custom and back the PQ is restored and the picture lightens.Yes. On my set, when I properly set brightness using DVE, then switch inputs to anything else (STB, GAME, etc.), and then return to the DVD input, the brightness is no longer properly set (it's much darker).

In the meantime, until we get the specific source of the problem sorted out, there's a simple (if annoying) workaround. Upon returning to the input and finding it suddenly too dark, simply go to the picture settings and switch from your current picture mode (say, Movie) to any other picture mode. Then switch it back to the first picture mode, and you'll find that it looks correct again.

if you don't play games, one reason to stick with Samsung might be how much better it can be calibrated than the Mits. Only time will answer that question.

UCSB: Regarding the input switching problem that is affecting dynamic range, I did a bit more testing last night.

1) Unlike a week or two ago, I can no longer get the dynamic range back to normal by adjusting specific picture settings on that input (Brightness, Contrast, etc.) as I reported before. The only way I can get the dynamic range back to its proper levels is to switch picture modes (from Movie to Custom then back to Movie). Weird.

2) I have yet to see this effect with a component source. I currently have my SA8300HD hooked up via component, while my S975V is hooked up via HDMI1. I need to test the component input more, though, as I need to find a channel that has a stable (still) image to do a more careful test. So far, though, I'm only seeing the problem over HDMI.

I really hope anyone looking at the Mitts have gone to the menus of the Mitts and Sammys to make sure they are set correctly? Never assume the picture you are seeing is correct, or set to "default." I went to Worst Buy, saw the Sammy on my way to Tweeter to buy it. I liked it and thought seeing it at another store would ease my decision. It turned out it wasn't set right and so I adjusted it. Actually, they had two Sammys and they didn't have the same picture. I went to the menu so they matched. Most of the time TVs are not set correctly.

I just got an HLR-6178. Picture is outstanding, also got the samsung 950 dvd player. Hooked up through HDMI, the DVD is great. No lip sync issues that I can detect. wish it had digital audio inputs rather than analog.

A few problems, was wondering if these are really defects or just design issues (or if any solution):

1). Color wheel makes noise, it is a low freqency hum, it is clearly louder than the fan. Can be heard from viewing distance clearly when sound is low. Not so loud that is is an obvious defect but much louder than I expected. Note: the fan is very quiet and runs for some time after powered down. The fan is barely noticable and higher in frequency.

2) HDMI inputs cannot be scaled up to fill the screen when program is 4:3

3) Won't do 1920X1080 with a media center PC through VGA. The card is an ATI X300, the whole image either does not fill the screen (approx 1/2) or will fill the screen all the way but only a portion of the screen shows up. The way it displays is dependant on the driver version used. will do 1280X720, looks decent but not impressive.

4) Cable card problems, the comcast rep has been in twice. It works for some time but then quits on the digital channels.

5) small white lines on either side of a 4:3 image with aspect maintained. There are the regular black bars but a tiny bright line on either side right next to the picture. This does not go away with dark scenes. Kind of distracting

Does anyone have suggestions or comments for the above or are these all just design glitches in the unit?

Any advice on exchanging the unit vs. repair if it needs a new color wheel?

I bought a video splitter so I can outout a signal from my PC's VGA card to boyj a PC monitor and the DLP. I haven't hooked it all up yet, but was unit required? Or can I just output from the card straight to the TV? Thanx

Drewjk and Hookster. These issues are based on the specs or limits of your cards. Not all cards can handle 1920x1080. Also if the card has two computer outputs, not video or SDIP then people have said your card should have an option for dual monitor where one output goes to your computer monitor and the other goes to the Sammy. The other option is mirror where one monitor is exactly the same as the other monitor. I haven't tried this myself yet and there might be options on the Sammy too?

I have been told the 73 in. will be better than the 62 in. ...

Tony, I'm very interested in the Mits/Sammy comparison, and was one of the ones disappointed on seeing the Mits 62628 this weekend at MagHiFi. Can you give any more info about the 73" sets--which is what I'm really interested in (in comparison to the Sammy 7178)--i.e., where did your info that the 73"-ers will be better come from? I hope you are right!

There's also a table of remote codes for other models from Samsung at

Many of the codes for the HLR models are the same as older models.

Excuse my ignorance, but just how does one use these codes to program a Philips Pronto?

If there were we would see it on the Samsung specs since this would
a big selling feature, i.e. NEW AUTO SYNCH in xxx8w DLP sets...

I believe what is going is that Samsung also sucks timewise
for audio processing and this decreases the time differential
between the video and the audio so the apparent lip sync
"feature" is completely accidental.

I have no knowledge of Samsungs design decesions, but the sync of audio and video at the display output is no "accident". If examined, I am quite sure you will find a deliberate delay built into the internal audio processing and that it has been well calibrated. I say this because in a previous model year, some Samsungs did have an internal sync issue and they have made a concerted effort to let the customers know that this series did not have internal sync problems.

Lee

I've recently noticed some problems after having my PC hooked up the VGA port. It seems like after the TV and PC have both been on a while, the picture appears to degrade, as in, red lines start showing up, massive distortion in the picture. I also noticed when this happens if I switch to another source I see lots of red and blue specks in the picture. Turning everything off for a short while appears to fix it, but is anyone else experiencing this? Any suggestions?

Excuse my ignorance, but just how does one use these codes to program a Philips Pronto?

UCSB is the pro on this question but I will give it a stab.You need to enter the the button you want to program.The customize window comes up.Highlight the Learnedcode in window.At the bottom of menu is a custom code adress window,enter the code in there and save.

Excuse my ignorance, but just how does one use these codes to program a Philips Pronto?

Your best bet is to find files on remotecentral.com that have the Samsung HDTV codes in them and then use those preexisting codes. But, if you want to generate Pronto HEX code it is very easy once you know how to do it. Here is how you get started ... go to remotecentral.com, look in the Pronto NG forum area and find the instruction on how to locate and use free HEX code generators like MakeHex.exe. Once you have MakeHex and input files for it, you then take a codes, such as E9 for HDMI 2 input, translate it to decimal (ie ... 233). Then place this decimal value into a MakeHex control file and run it through MakeHex. MakeHex will create a new file with your Pronto HEX code in it. Which you then copy into the button you are trying to create in ProntoEdit NG. You then download your new program down into your remote and test it.

ADDED: If you look through the last 10 pages or so of this thread, you will find a link to a file with all 255 possible codes in a Pronto .ccf ... this means you won't have to generate any of them. But, be careful if you pick this file up ... if you just start testing each code out by trying them on your TV, be aware that there may be some undocumented codes in the sequence.

See told you he was the Pro heheheh

Folks, I'm a little confused here!!!!!Right. :)

Now, there seems to some significant issues that "several" board members have identified.Which issues seem the most "significant" to you?

Some board members who I had considered to be "cheerleaders" have changed their minds and bought other brands. That, in itself, speaks volumes!!!!!!The only one I know about (AkaStp) isn't a "cheerleader", and has returned his 1080p Samsung. As I understand it, he is now waiting to see all the new sets including later versions of the Samsung sets. Who are the "cheerleaders" I missed?

What is the general consensus about the overall quality and value of the Samsungs?Gazelle has a different answer for that one, but other's would probably tell you the Samsung's set have average repair rates, can be ISF calibrated to match standards very closely, and have outstanding customer support.

Is it worth while to wait a little longer and see what the other manufacturers come out with?Of course it is.

I hear "strong" rumors that the price will drop, significantly, over the next month or two? Anyone else hearing the same?Are you kidding? Prices are always dropping, and there has been speculation in this forum for weeks that prices will drop as the 2005 models become widely available. It's a historical fact that repeats every year. :)

Seems like TVA is ending their Powerbuy a little early. Wonder why? Really?In the beginning TVA said they would end the powerbuy thirty days after they were notified of the first shipment to them of the last model in their powerbuy. Why do you think it's early?

I just got an HLR-6178. Picture is outstanding, also got the samsung 950 dvd player. Hooked up through HDMI, the DVD is great. No lip sync issues that I can detect. wish it had digital audio inputs rather than analog.

A few problems, was wondering if these are really defects or just design issues (or if any solution):

1). Color wheel makes noise, it is a low freqency hum, it is clearly louder than the fan. Can be heard from viewing distance clearly when sound is low. Not so loud that is is an obvious defect but much louder than I expected. Note: the fan is very quiet and runs for some time after powered down. The fan is barely noticable and higher in frequency.

2) HDMI inputs cannot be scaled up to fill the screen when program is 4:3

3) Won't do 1920X1080 with a media center PC through VGA. The card is an ATI X300, the whole image either does not fill the screen (approx 1/2) or will fill the screen all the way but only a portion of the screen shows up. The way it displays is dependant on the driver version used. will do 1280X720, looks decent but not impressive.

4) Cable card problems, the comcast rep has been in twice. It works for some time but then quits on the digital channels.

5) small white lines on either side of a 4:3 image with aspect maintained. There are the regular black bars but a tiny bright line on either side right next to the picture. This does not go away with dark scenes. Kind of distracting

Does anyone have suggestions or comments for the above or are these all just design glitches in the unit?

Any advice on exchanging the unit vs. repair if it needs a new color wheel?

Well, seems like a defect in your set. I dont notice any sound from the fan or color wheel on my set. Its very quiet, but i have been listening to it with my pc on which is on the other side of the room. I did have my pc off for some of the viewing and still didnt notice any sound but i will listen more closely.

I have read every single post in this thread and countless others regarding these sets. Im starting to think their may be a problem with the hdmi port that is causing this loss of detail in darker scenes / shadows. I am also wondering if the lag that we experience with gaming consoles on these sets (xbox), could have anything to do with audio lip sync problems.

By this i mean, is it the same defect or error with these sets that is causing these delays. seems like the video on these dlp's may be delayed a bit more then other sets ? I could be totally wrong , this is just an assumption.

And now for some comments and questions so that you can really see just how much of a newbie I am! I've determined I don't know what the heck I'm doing with DVE. Maybe it's better that I leave well enough alone.

While in custom mode, I tried to adjust black level using the pluge test. I had previously adjusted my Oppo to brightness = +5 (following recommendations I read here). When adjusting the set, I couldn't see the 3rd black bars at all. I then jumped the Oppo up to +8 brightness, and this time I could adjust the set to see the black bars. My brightness level on the set turned out to be 51. Is it wrong to set the Oppo's brightness this high?

I couldn't seem to see any difference when adjusting contrast.
I didn't even begin to try adjusting colors.
I considered, but haven't yet gotten up the guts to enter the SM to adjust gamma to 0.

Given a fair amount of ambient light during the day, would the same calibrations result if I conducted the adjustments during the day as at night?

Finally, I'm convinced this is a really stupid question, but I don't mind looking stupid as much as I'm curious about the answer. Assuming I ever did learn how to adjust my set a bit on HDMI 2 (DVD connection), how does one adjust other inputs such as the cable box? For example, would I just copy the same numbers to either component or HDMI 1 (cable box)?

I too have given up on using DVE to try to calibrate my set. My friend let me borrow his DVE and I couldn't see any difference in the changes I was making. I guess my HD inexperience is my problem. I'm going to take a week off of work soon to try to learn and customize my 5668. Hopefully that will help.

I also plan on getting my set calibrated once I have finalized all my connections. Has anyone in MA had there set calibrated by a Sammy certified ISF tech? I live about 50 miles south of Boston.

Thanks
-dreamr

Well my Oppo arrived yesterday and my 5078 shipped today. Really excited as this is my first HDTV. Will be replacing my SA 8000 DVR with the HD version, since my local TWC doesn't have the SA 8300 HD DVR. :o( My question is....does the HDMI output work on the 8000? I've read it has one but that it doesn't work. Thanks for any info and thanks especially to UCSB for his review of DVD players resulting in my cancellation of the 950 for the Oppo.
TexAg70, don't let them tell you they don't have the HD HVR; if they can't have one brought over from another location, come to the Galveston branch (on Teichman) and pick one up. I was first brought the non-HD and then switched out that for the HD version at the Galveston location, so they have them and can get them. I'm still waiting on my 6168 and hoping an activation for Katrina relief doesn't remove my chances of getting it delivered. Enjoy your new set.

Found some hex codes in a forum @ remote central for Off; On; Video 1,2,3; S-Video 1,2,3; Component 1,2; HDMI 1,2; VGA(PC); DVI 1,2; Zoom 1,2; Panarama; 4:3; 19:9; Auto Format; Auto Wide RF1; Auto Wide DTV; IEEE 1394 1,2,3.
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-discrete/thread.cgi?1264

Tony, I'm very interested in the Mits/Sammy comparison, and was one of the ones disappointed on seeing the Mits 62628 this weekend at MagHiFi. Can you give any more info about the 73" sets--which is what I'm really interested in (in comparison to the Sammy 7178)--i.e., where did your info that the 73"-ers will be better come from? I hope you are right!

I am also very interested in where tonydeluce has been told told the 73 in. Mits will be better than the 62 in.

I just got an HLR-6178. Picture is outstanding, also got the samsung 950 dvd player. Hooked up through HDMI, the DVD is great. No lip sync issues that I can detect. wish it had digital audio inputs rather than analog.

A few problems, was wondering if these are really defects or just design issues (or if any solution):

1). Color wheel makes noise, it is a low freqency hum, it is clearly louder than the fan. Can be heard from viewing distance clearly when sound is low. Not so loud that is is an obvious defect but much louder than I expected. Note: the fan is very quiet and runs for some time after powered down. The fan is barely noticable and higher in frequency.

2) HDMI inputs cannot be scaled up to fill the screen when program is 4:3

3) Won't do 1920X1080 with a media center PC through VGA. The card is an ATI X300, the whole image either does not fill the screen (approx 1/2) or will fill the screen all the way but only a portion of the screen shows up. The way it displays is dependant on the driver version used. will do 1280X720, looks decent but not impressive.

4) Cable card problems, the comcast rep has been in twice. It works for some time but then quits on the digital channels.

5) small white lines on either side of a 4:3 image with aspect maintained. There are the regular black bars but a tiny bright line on either side right next to the picture. This does not go away with dark scenes. Kind of distracting

Does anyone have suggestions or comments for the above or are these all just design glitches in the unit?

Any advice on exchanging the unit vs. repair if it needs a new color wheel?


re: #2 - I have found this to be true when the source device is outputting a 1080i signal. If you change the output to 480 all the zoom modes will be available.

#5 - Had this problem also. My 6168 was replaced for another reason and the new one does not show these lines.

Hi Guys,

I need to buy a DVI to HDMI cable and a VGA cable for my 5668. Has anyone bought any of these from RAM Electronics? If so, how are they. They seem to cost much less than everyone else. I just want to make sure that they are of good quality.

I know people have had problems with the expensive VGA cables, so I am pretty confident that this one will work. I'm more worried about the DVI to HDMI.

Thanks in advance.
-dreamr

dreamr,

I purchased a component and an HDMI cable from RAM. They both seem quite sturdy and of excellent quality. I just ordered a Felston, and plan on returning to RAM to purchase the extra toslink and coax audio cables if I can't find them at Costco.

Good luck with figuring out DVE! Please share your insights when and if you get the chance. Did you change gamma to zero?

medgecko,

Thanks for the info. As a matter of fact I exchanged the 8000 DVR for the 8300 HD DVR today at the Texas City location. Hooked it up and I'm good to go. Just waiting on the 5078, due Mon-Wed next week. Still haven't gotten a tracking number yet, though????

I too have given up on using DVE to try to calibrate my set. My friend let me borrow his DVE and I couldn't see any difference in the changes I was making. I guess my HD inexperience is my problem. I'm going to take a week off of work soon to try to learn and customize my 5668. Hopefully that will help.

I also plan on getting my set calibrated once I have finalized all my connections. Has anyone in MA had there set calibrated by a Sammy certified ISF tech? I live about 50 miles south of Boston.

Thanks
-dreamr
I cannot calibrate the HDMI inputs but I can calibrate the Component with DVE.

dreamr,

I purchased a component and an HDMI cable from RAM. They both seem quite sturdy and of excellent quality. I just ordered a Felston, and plan on returning to RAM to purchase the extra toslink and coax audio cables if I can't find them at Costco.

Good luck with figuring out DVE! Please share your insights when and if you get the chance. Did you change gamma to zero?

Yes, Gamma is set to zero. I played around with some user settings, but I'm a little hesitant to jump in to the System Menu (i think that is what it's called). Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to do much. I'm on vacation in a few weeks and I plan on spending some serious time tweaking.

-dreamr

Same here, my HLR6168W was due to have shipped on wednesday, I haven't got a tracking number yet. :mad: :mad: :mad: (But hey, I'm getting a real good price via TVA, it's worth the delay)

medgecko,

Thanks for the info. As a matter of fact I exchanged the 8000 DVR for the 8300 HD DVR today at the Texas City location. Hooked it up and I'm good to go. Just waiting on the 5078, due Mon-Wed next week. Still haven't gotten a tracking number yet, though????

Tony, I'm very interested in the Mits/Sammy comparison, and was one of the ones disappointed on seeing the Mits 62628 this weekend at MagHiFi. Can you give any more info about the 73" sets--which is what I'm really interested in (in comparison to the Sammy 7178)--i.e., where did your info that the 73"-ers will be better come from? I hope you are right!

From a friend but nevertheless I recommend waiting til they ship - shouldn't
be long and compare them yourself.

He was simply comparing to the 62 in. Mits and not the Sammys or Toshibas.

I just received my 6168W and have just hooked it up. After playing around with it for only a couple of hours now, I have one observation/comment and one question so far:

1) Observation/comment: Upon watching HDNET and Discovery HD Theatre from DirecTV I noticed the "sparkling colored blotching effect" in dark colored areas that was reported by several people way back in this thread before I gave up trying to keep up with this thread (I lost track of this thread back around page 120 or 130 or so). People who had reported this effect in this thread often gave Conan O'Brian pics to show as examples. I found that this effect occurred when watching the channel through component cables, but did not occur when watching the same channel through DVI to HDMI.

2) Question: When watching any channel that is not broadcast in 16:9 ratio (all standard definition channels), the black bars on the left and right of the screen are not equal in width. In other words, the picture is not centered. The black bar on the left is usually about 6.5 or 7 inches wide and the bar on the right is usually about 4.5 or 5 inches wide (I measured them with a tape measure). This is somewhat irritating and makes me wonder if I am possibly getting a portion of the picture cut-off when watching 16:9 format (HD) programs since the screen does not appear centered on SD programs. However, HD signals appear to completely fill the screen perfectly, but it still has me wondering. Has anyone else experienced this? Can this be adjusted or fixed? (I couldn’t locate anything in the user manual). Basically, does anyone know what this means?

I obviously have much more tinkering and playing to do but wanted to post these thoughts so far.
:)

Not to raise a dead and buried issue in this thread, but I just ordered the Felston DD540 and wanted to report on the excellent customer service of the U.S. sales contact. The Felston site provides you a link to a reseller in South Carolina. The reseller is much more than just a salesman, however, but more of an intense hobbyist and engineer with a real commitment to the issue. He provided me with a ton of information about lip sync. The following link from his website provides very interesting info to those interested.
http://lipfix.com/technical_details.html

One point I found fascinating is that once you begin to observe lip sync, your threshold of tolerance will likely decrease precipitously. That is, if you could previously tolerate 75 ms video delay without noticing, once your awareness of the problem is raised your tolerance level may decrease to a much smaller margin.

At any rate, if your are considering a Felston purchase and customer service is a priority for you, you won't believe how friendly and helpful Nick can be.

Well, I have my 5078 set up in the family room now. Viewing distance is about 9' to the couch.

My wife doesn't like it at all. Standard def over analog comcast is pixilated and grainy. I also tried the digital channels (which she doesn't know how to find) and it's slightly better, but still kinda nasty. I'm not using a stretch mode, so it's pillar boxed content.

You can see much the same thing when playing kids DVDs (like Nemo and Bugs Life) using 480p over component. But it is a little less obnoxious.

I'm expecting a comcast HD DVR next week and that should switch my wife over to using digital stations. Should I expect any improvement in picture quality on SD?

If not, it's gonna be hard to keep this set. Would any other sets be less grainy, or is it just that 50" at 9' won't work for SD? Overall, I'm kinda disappointed and my wife really dislikes it.

Well, I have my 5078 set up in the family room now. Viewing distance is about 9' to the couch.

My wife doesn't like it at all. Standard def over analog comcast is pixilated and grainy. I also tried the digital channels (which she doesn't know how to find) and it's slightly better, but still kinda nasty. I'm not using a stretch mode, so it's pillar boxed content.

You can see much the same thing when playing kids DVDs (like Nemo and Bugs Life) using 480p over component. But it is a little less obnoxious.

I'm expecting a comcast HD DVR next week and that should switch my wife over to using digital stations. Should I expect any improvement in picture quality on SD?

If not, it's gonna be hard to keep this set. Would any other sets be less grainy, or is it just that 50" at 9' won't work for SD? Overall, I'm kinda disappointed and my wife really dislikes it.

I'm no expert but you have something else going wrong. My 6186 at 9' looks great with SD (I have DirecTV), and I can't beleive that any nontechnical "wife" could possibly dislike what these HDTV's are capable of if your getting proper signals passed through proper connections. Hopefully someone else can give you some better ideas on what to try for a better picture. :)

I just received my 6168W and have just hooked it up. After playing around with it for only a couple of hours now, I have one observation/comment and one question so far:

1) Observation/comment: Upon watching HDNET and Discovery HD Theatre from DirecTV I noticed the "sparkling colored blotching effect" in dark colored areas that was reported by several people way back in this thread before I gave up trying to keep up with this thread (I lost track of this thread back around page 120 or 130 or so). People who had reported this effect in this thread often gave Conan O'Brian pics to show as examples. I found that this effect occurred when watching the channel through component cables, but did not occur when watching the same channel through DVI to HDMI.

2) Question: When watching any channel that is not broadcast in 16:9 ratio (all standard definition channels), the black bars on the left and right of the screen are not equal in width. In other words, the picture is not centered. The black bar on the left is usually about 6.5 or 7 inches wide and the bar on the right is usually about 4.5 or 5 inches wide (I measured them with a tape measure). This is somewhat irritating and makes me wonder if I am possibly getting a portion of the picture cut-off when watching 16:9 format (HD) programs since the screen does not appear centered on SD programs. However, HD signals appear to completely fill the screen perfectly, but it still has me wondering. Has anyone else experienced this? Can this be adjusted or fixed? (I couldn’t locate anything in the user manual). Basically, does anyone know what this means?

I obviously have much more tinkering and playing to do but wanted to post these thoughts so far.
:)

With your Question 2, I have different size black bars on left and right side of 4:3 format source. On my 5078W I have the right side wider than the left side bar.

Well, I have my 5078 set up in the family room now. Viewing distance is about 9' to the couch.

My wife doesn't like it at all. Standard def over analog comcast is pixilated and grainy. I also tried the digital channels (which she doesn't know how to find) and it's slightly better, but still kinda nasty. I'm not using a stretch mode, so it's pillar boxed content.

You can see much the same thing when playing kids DVDs (like Nemo and Bugs Life) using 480p over component. But it is a little less obnoxious.

I'm expecting a comcast HD DVR next week and that should switch my wife over to using digital stations. Should I expect any improvement in picture quality on SD?

If not, it's gonna be hard to keep this set. Would any other sets be less grainy, or is it just that 50" at 9' won't work for SD? Overall, I'm kinda disappointed and my wife really dislikes it.

You might split your cable signal before your STB and route one cable directly to the TV. If you use the TV for analog SD channels you can go in and FINE TUNE each analog channel. This should look pretty good ... or rather, as good as these analog channels are going to look. You may have other problems, such as using s-video or composite connnections and the quality of your STB and DVD player.

ADDED: After fine tuning analog channels, they should look OK. But, after you get the DVR move up to the digital stations, especially the HD. The HD channels are usually grouped together and you can use the favorites function on the DVR to make it easier to find her favorite channels. While you are waiting, you can use the favorites function on the TV's internal tuner to save your wife the trouble of looking for the digital SD channels.

With your Question 2, I have different size black bars on left and right side of 4:3 format source. On my 5078W I have the right side wider than the left side bar.
Try centering the picture in the service menu.

I just received my 6168W and have just hooked it up. After playing around with it for only a couple of hours now, I have one observation/comment and one question so far:

1) Observation/comment: Upon watching HDNET and Discovery HD Theatre from DirecTV I noticed the "sparkling colored blotching effect" in dark colored areas that was reported by several people way back in this thread before I gave up trying to keep up with this thread (I lost track of this thread back around page 120 or 130 or so). People who had reported this effect in this thread often gave Conan O'Brian pics to show as examples. I found that this effect occurred when watching the channel through component cables, but did not occur when watching the same channel through DVI to HDMI.

2) Question: When watching any channel that is not broadcast in 16:9 ratio (all standard definition channels), the black bars on the left and right of the screen are not equal in width. In other words, the picture is not centered. The black bar on the left is usually about 6.5 or 7 inches wide and the bar on the right is usually about 4.5 or 5 inches wide (I measured them with a tape measure). This is somewhat irritating and makes me wonder if I am possibly getting a portion of the picture cut-off when watching 16:9 format (HD) programs since the screen does not appear centered on SD programs. However, HD signals appear to completely fill the screen perfectly, but it still has me wondering. Has anyone else experienced this? Can this be adjusted or fixed? (I couldn’t locate anything in the user manual). Basically, does anyone know what this means?

I obviously have much more tinkering and playing to do but wanted to post these thoughts so far.
:)

I would first worry about the first problem (blue / red specs over component inputs...) I am one who had that problem - it turned out being a bad digital board. So chances are you have a bad digital board and would be best off either getting the set serviced or replaced... I had my set serviced in which the digital board was replaced by a technician.... Unfortuntately it appears that many of the service menu settings weren't copied over correctly to the new digital board so now I have newer problems.... Instead of dealing with the technician that simply wanted to argue with me I opted to have my set replaced... New set should be here hopefully Friday or Monday.

At any rate, if your are considering a Felston purchase and customer service is a priority for you, you won't believe how friendly and helpful Nick can be.

Just to echo WannaBin's thoughts and add a little more. I, too, bought a Felston unit from Nick (Johnson, I believe). And it's working fine, OBTW.

I was a little hesitant about buying from what, in essence, is a mom and pop operation. However, when I told Nick that I went to graduate school at the University of South Carolina in Columbia in '77, he explained that he ran The Byte Shop at that time. I remembered the store, one of the very first home brew computer stores anywhere (I guess). So, Nick's been at the technology thing for a while. In addition, he has two sons in the TV/audio post production business here in the San Fernando Valley.

Jim

2) Question: When watching any channel that is not broadcast in 16:9 ratio (all standard definition channels), the black bars on the left and right of the screen are not equal in width. In other words, the picture is not centered. The black bar on the left is usually about 6.5 or 7 inches wide and the bar on the right is usually about 4.5 or 5 inches wide (I measured them with a tape measure). This is somewhat irritating and makes me wonder if I am possibly getting a portion of the picture cut-off when watching 16:9 format (HD) programs since the screen does not appear centered on SD programs. However, HD signals appear to completely fill the screen perfectly, but it still has me wondering. Has anyone else experienced this? Can this be adjusted or fixed? (I couldn’t locate anything in the user manual). Basically, does anyone know what this means?

I obviously have much more tinkering and playing to do but wanted to post these thoughts so far.
:)
From my experience with 2 light engines I can say that the horizontal and vertical dimensions are probably off. If you are comfortable with the SM then you can adjust it yourself otherwise SS will be glad to send a technician out to do it.

I am now fairly centered with 2% overscan on each side and 5% top and bottom. And now my angular problem is fixed. But of course now I have a bit more bowing at the top and bottom, which I will have to live with.

This set will have to do until we see a 1080p fixed pixel non projection set at a reasonable price at 56 - 60 inches.

Won't the picture be slightly distorted if you don't have the same amount of overscan on the horizontal and vertical sides? My set had the same amount of overscan on each side after I centered the picture in the SM. Then I used the iscnHD+ underscan feature to set it around .5% to 1% overscan.

i'll try to take a few pics of the screen tonight with my roommate's camera. i am getting 1:1 pixel mapping with perfectly clear text, etc. i'm actually getting a few pixels underscan (less than 5 or so) on the top, but nothing worth overcompensating for. horizontal is about as close to perfect as i can tell. we're building the new HTPC this week, and i'll be switching over to powerstrip. i'll be sure to post all my timings. =]

Hi aural-6.
Do you have any update? Screenshots? or the timing settings? :)

Thanks!

Could you please try a game besides MVP 2005 or Halo 2. Those are the only games that I have seen lag reported on, albeit a number of times. May I suggest Madden 06 or NCAA 06, or maybe the new Rainbow Six game, or even GTA San Andreas.

I can tell you that the Samsung sets definitely have video lag. For that matter, virtually all HD sets do, but in my experience DLP tends to be the worst and Samsung is the worst within that technology. I work for large video game publisher and I've personally tested many of the top name brand HD sets with a variety of games. I found that the HD RPTVs with the least lag (there is still some) are the Sony LCD sets. But you don't need a game to see video lag, you can see it at most AV shops right on the display floor. First, find a local AV shop that has the same video feed going to all of the sets. Next, locate a Sony LCD, which in most cases is close to a DLP set of one type or another. Stand far enough back to get the Sony and the comparison set in view and look for synchronicity between the images on the neighboring sets. What you should see is that the action on the Sony set starts and stops slightly before the DLP set. We are talking fractions of a second, so you have to look for it. It is easiest to see lag when there is significant lateral movement in the scene, and during scene cuts and transitions. With that said, some people are more attune to seeing the delay and feeling it during gameplay, and it only really affects a handful of games that require split second timing.

For the record, I believe that some of the lag in MVP 2005 is a problem with the game when running it 720p mode. I don't think the game was optimized for hi-rez, as there are dropped frames and other framerate problems in the 720p mode that aren't there when running it in standard rez.

Hope that helps.

I was told to get an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) backup for my dlp tv.....are you guys using one...and if so...what would be some recommendations on ones specifically as well as price ranges....thanks

I'm expecting a comcast HD DVR next week and that should switch my wife over to using digital stations. Should I expect any improvement in picture quality on SD?

Yes. You can expect to see a difference over the analog signal. Digital will make a big difference IMO

Dream, I bought a black vga cable at radio shack for 20 bucks that works with my 5668 and my htpc. By work I mean I get a picture. Haven't tried anything else.

if this is your first big screen and you currently have anything less than a 32, you will be disappointed with SD. But you also indicate you have a problem with 2 nice looking dvds, so there might be something wrong with your set or your dvd player that couldn't be seen on a smaller screen.

Well, I have my 5078 set up in the family room now. Viewing distance is about 9' to the couch.

My wife doesn't like it at all. Standard def over analog comcast is pixilated and grainy. I also tried the digital channels (which she doesn't know how to find) and it's slightly better, but still kinda nasty. I'm not using a stretch mode, so it's pillar boxed content.

You can see much the same thing when playing kids DVDs (like Nemo and Bugs Life) using 480p over component. But it is a little less obnoxious.

I'm expecting a comcast HD DVR next week and that should switch my wife over to using digital stations. Should I expect any improvement in picture quality on SD?

If not, it's gonna be hard to keep this set. Would any other sets be less grainy, or is it just that 50" at 9' won't work for SD? Overall, I'm kinda disappointed and my wife really dislikes it.

Well, I have my 5078 set up in the family room now. Viewing distance is about 9' to the couch.

My wife doesn't like it at all. Standard def over analog comcast is pixilated and grainy. I also tried the digital channels (which she doesn't know how to find) and it's slightly better, but still kinda nasty. I'm not using a stretch mode, so it's pillar boxed content.

You can see much the same thing when playing kids DVDs (like Nemo and Bugs Life) using 480p over component. But it is a little less obnoxious.

I'm expecting a comcast HD DVR next week and that should switch my wife over to using digital stations. Should I expect any improvement in picture quality on SD?

If not, it's gonna be hard to keep this set. Would any other sets be less grainy, or is it just that 50" at 9' won't work for SD? Overall, I'm kinda disappointed and my wife really dislikes it.

The HD DVR will still have analog on channels below 100.

I went from a Motorola HD DVR to their non DVR, HD box, back to a HD DVR box.(first DVR was freezing when it got hot) The DVR version of the same box has a better picture. As you said, the PQ from the plain HD box looked nasty.

I had a similar experience. Nick was a real pleasure doing business with. Very knowledgable. The Felston is such a simple hook up too. Well worth it for me.

while the felston is a well regarded esternal delay, i should expect to get good results with my receiver which has delay features, no? (denon 3805)

Yes. My 3805 works fine. No need for the felston with a delay feature on a receiver.

Well, I have my 5078 set up in the family room now. Viewing distance is about 9' to the couch.

My wife doesn't like it at all. Standard def over analog comcast is pixilated and grainy. I also tried the digital channels (which she doesn't know how to find) and it's slightly better, but still kinda nasty. I'm not using a stretch mode, so it's pillar boxed content.

You can see much the same thing when playing kids DVDs (like Nemo and Bugs Life) using 480p over component. But it is a little less obnoxious.

I'm expecting a comcast HD DVR next week and that should switch my wife over to using digital stations. Should I expect any improvement in picture quality on SD?

If not, it's gonna be hard to keep this set. Would any other sets be less grainy, or is it just that 50" at 9' won't work for SD? Overall, I'm kinda disappointed and my wife really dislikes it.

It's not the set, it's Comcast. You can return the set, but the only "fix" is a smaller set (or switch to DirecTV for SD).

This is the side-effect of moving to a large TV. Don't blame the TV, blame the content source.

I can tell you that the Samsung sets definitely have video lag. For that matter, virtually all HD sets do, but in my experience DLP tends to be the worst and Samsung is the worst within that technology. I work for large video game publisher and I've personally tested many of the top name brand HD sets with a variety of games. I found that the HD RPTVs with the least lag (there is still some) are the Sony LCD sets. But you don't need a game to see video lag, you can see it at most AV shops right on the display floor. First, find a local AV shop that has the same video feed going to all of the sets. Next, locate a Sony LCD, which in most cases is close to a DLP set of one type or another. Stand far enough back to get the Sony and the comparison set in view and look for synchronicity between the images on the neighboring sets. What you should see is that the action on the Sony set starts and stops slightly before the DLP set. We are talking fractions of a second, so you have to look for it. It is easiest to see lag when there is significant lateral movement in the scene, and during scene cuts and transitions. With that said, some people are more attune to seeing the delay and feeling it during gameplay, and it only really affects a handful of games that require split second timing.

For the record, I believe that some of the lag in MVP 2005 is a problem with the game when running it 720p mode. I don't think the game was optimized for hi-rez, as there are dropped frames and other framerate problems in the 720p mode that aren't there when running it in standard rez.

Hope that helps.

Well, i didnt mess with the resolution yet at all. The tv was on 1080i and the xbox was on default resolution. which im not even sure what that is. This was with no HD Cables.

My question to you though is this. IF these sets do experience such lag, and will continue to do so from what your saying, why in the world is Microsoft teaming up with Samsung to showcase their XBOX 360. Why would a company as big as Microsoft want people to play the games on these sets and experience this delay. If you watched the unveiling of the Xbox 360 on mtv, i believe that had these exact sets, only using the 78 instead of 68 to showoff their games. So, in my mind that is telling the consumer to go buy these tv's if you want the best HD XBOX 360 experience you can get. Which would be totally false... am i wrong ? or will the increased output resolution of the xbox 360 totally eliminate the problems i see on the the normal xbox ?

I may call samsung or tva about this. Cause i want to enjoy my xbox experience, and these sets may not allow for that :( .

I would first worry about the first problem (blue / red specs over component inputs...) I am one who had that problem - it turned out being a bad digital board. So chances are you have a bad digital board and would be best off either getting the set serviced or replaced... I had my set serviced in which the digital board was replaced by a technician.... Unfortuntately it appears that many of the service menu settings weren't copied over correctly to the new digital board so now I have newer problems.... Instead of dealing with the technician that simply wanted to argue with me I opted to have my set replaced... New set should be here hopefully Friday or Monday.


Thanks for the reply! Hmmm, so the fact that it happens only with component cables and not with the HDMI input still makes you think it would be a bad digital board and not just a poor connection with the component cables? In other words, does the digital board only handle the component feed and not the HDMI feed?

I haven’t spent very much time with the set yet, but I didn’t notice any of this sparkling effect while playing around with a few Xbox games (Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and Ghost Recon II) which were connected through component cables. This made me think that possibly poor component cables or a poor (loose) connection caused the “sparkling effect” when I had the DirecTV signal going through component cables.

I’ll keep experimenting and keep an eye on it…..

From my experience with 2 light engines I can say that the horizontal and vertical dimensions are probably off. If you are comfortable with the SM then you can adjust it yourself otherwise SS will be glad to send a technician out to do it.

I am now fairly centered with 2% overscan on each side and 5% top and bottom. And now my angular problem is fixed. But of course now I have a bit more bowing at the top and bottom, which I will have to live with.

This set will have to do until we see a 1080p fixed pixel non projection set at a reasonable price at 56 - 60 inches.

Thanks for the reply! :)

One other thing that I noticed: When I originally made this comment I was of course talking about all SD channels as fed to the TV through my DirecTV box (also a Samsung, I don’t have the model handy with me here at work at the moment). However, since then I ran the DVE calibration disk through the DVD player (of course) and it was shown with equal width sidebars. So I wonder if the Samsung DirecTV box is causing this off-center screen. With that said, however, I did not notice SD channels as being displayed off-center on my old 52” Panasonic DLP HDTV with this same Samsung DirecTV box.

I’ll have to play around some more and maybe hook the DirecTV box back up to my old HDTV (I still have it) and make a direct comparison. However, doesn’t the fact that the DirecTV box’s SD signals being off-center and the DVD player SD signal being centered imply that this may not be the 6168’s fault? Oh, I know……..I bet it’s the HDMI input that is causing SD channels being off-center but that component cable input is properly centering SD input. The DirecTV box was connected vis. HDMI and my DVD player only has component connections. I’ll have to experiment some more tonight after work…….

Won't the picture be slightly distorted if you don't have the same amount of overscan on the horizontal and vertical sides? My set had the same amount of overscan on each side after I centered the picture in the SM. Then I used the iscnHD+ underscan feature to set it around .5% to 1% overscan.
I am refering to the native overscan of the set, not the over/underscan you set on your VGA based source.

Well, i didnt mess with the resolution yet at all. The tv was on 1080i and the xbox was on default resolution. which im not even sure what that is. This was with no HD Cables.

My question to you though is this. IF these sets do experience such lag, and will continue to do so from what your saying, why in the world is Microsoft teaming up with Samsung to showcase their XBOX 360. Why would a company as big as Microsoft want people to play the games on these sets and experience this delay. If you watched the unveiling of the Xbox 360 on mtv, i believe that had these exact sets, only using the 78 instead of 68 to showoff their games. So, in my mind that is telling the consumer to go buy these tv's if you want the best HD XBOX 360 experience you can get. Which would be totally false... am i wrong ? or will the increased output resolution of the xbox 360 totally eliminate the problems i see on the the normal xbox ?

I may call samsung or tva about this. Cause i want to enjoy my xbox experience, and these sets may not allow for that :( .

alluding to what hifispronge's post above, I'm hoping that the current gen games, overall, weren't tuned to be output at 720p, while the next gen games are designed to be played at 720p by default, hopefully we will be in for a nice surprise when we hook up the xbox 360 to our 1080p tv's

I was told to get an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) backup for my dlp tv.....are you guys using one...and if so...what would be some recommendations on ones specifically as well as price ranges....thanks

Hey rx,

I was told something different. I was told that a Pure Sine Line Conditioner was much better than a UPS. You can find more information on what the differences are by searching the Power Forum. If you go to BB you can see most of the sets and other A/V equipment connected to one of these line conditioners. They carry both the Monster and PureAV (Belkin) brands

I was looking at the PureAV PF60 which sells at BB for just under $800. Westa told me where I could find it online for almost a 3rd of that.

I don't know if I can post the site and price here, but if you are interested PM me and I will send you the information.

Good Luck,
-dreamr

My question to you though is this. IF these sets do experience such lag, and will continue to do so from what your saying, why in the world is Microsoft teaming up with Samsung to showcase their XBOX 360. Why would a company as big as Microsoft want people to play the games on these sets and experience this delay. If you watched the unveiling of the Xbox 360 on mtv, i believe that had these exact sets, only using the 78 instead of 68 to showoff their games. So, in my mind that is telling the consumer to go buy these tv's if you want the best HD XBOX 360 experience you can get. Which would be totally false... am i wrong ? or will the increased output resolution of the xbox 360 totally eliminate the problems i see on the the normal xbox ?

360 isn't out yet. The current xbox is last gen technology running on a next gen tv. I wouldn't expect it to work perfectly. But the 360 and PS3 better work perfectly with these tvs (and other hd sets) or there will be a lot of disappointed folks.

What exactly happens if the tv loses power and the lamp doesn't get a chance to shut down gracefully? I ended up going with the power conditioner since chances are that I will shut down the tv if I see or feel a major thunderstorm coming my way. Voltage problems on the other hand can't really be seen readily. That was my reasoning. I'll continue to keep my eye out for a model that does both that is reasonably priced.

Thanks for the reply! :)

One other thing that I noticed: When I originally made this comment I was of course talking about all SD channels as fed to the TV through my DirecTV box (also a Samsung, I don’t have the model handy with me here at work at the moment). However, since then I ran the DVE calibration disk through the DVD player (of course) and it was shown with equal width sidebars. So I wonder if the Samsung DirecTV box is causing this off-center screen. With that said, however, I did not notice SD channels as being displayed off-center on my old 52” Panasonic DLP HDTV with this same Samsung DirecTV box.

I’ll have to play around some more and maybe hook the DirecTV box back up to my old HDTV (I still have it) and make a direct comparison. However, doesn’t the fact that the DirecTV box’s SD signals being off-center and the DVD player SD signal being centered imply that this may not be the 6168’s fault? Oh, I know……..I bet it’s the HDMI input that is causing SD channels being off-center but that component cable input is properly centering SD input. The DirecTV box was connected vis. HDMI and my DVD player only has component connections. I’ll have to experiment some more tonight after work…….
Interesting. While not an expert in the SM when I watched the technician yesterday I certainly did not get the impression that the centering of the image was input dependant. If so I will have to call SS back and have them come out to adjust all the inputs. I suppose that they would have to do it with a signal generator. We used the test patterns in VE to align the TV and it was connected to the component input.

Note a quick test of the HDMI input shows basically the same ratio of overscan but interestingly there is about 1% less overscan on each side from the component. Probably the difference in the two DVD players.

Hey rx,

I was told something different. I was told that a Pure Sine Line Conditioner was much better than a UPS. You can find more information on what the differences are by searching the Power Forum. If you go to BB you can see most of the sets and other A/V equipment connected to one of these line conditioners. They carry both the Monster and PureAV (Belkin) brands

I was looking at the PureAV PF60 which sells at BB for just under $800. Westa told me where I could find it online for almost a 3rd of that.

I don't know if I can post the site and price here, but if you are interested PM me and I will send you the information.

Good Luck,
-dreamr PureAV PF60 at e-cost...I love this unit.

what about the UPS (uninterruptible power supply) device? aren't the dlp's suppose to cool down the bulb when turned off...so therefore with a sudden loss of power that might cause the bulbs to break?....so atleast with a UPS it will maintain power supply until you can manually turn off the tv

_Matt, UCSB,

Thanks for the quick responses!

Problem is, this sounds too simple. Does this mean that there are only 255 possible IR codes? This can't possibly be enough.

If you display the hex codes for a given IR command, it contains a lot of data. How does MakeHex know how to fill in all these data values based on a single input value? There must be more to this...

I got my 6768 yesterday and the set is truly spectacular in all regards in almost every mode, even SD is acceptable. However there is definitley a lip sync issue when connected to my Oppo DVD player. The available 50 ms makes it almost perfect. While I felston would certainly do it, I emailed Opp concerning a new firmware release and got this reply:

"We are working on a longer delay. We hope to be able to include up to
120ms for audio delay purposes. However, at this time, we do not know
when this will be released in a firmware upgrade."

After spending so much coin on the player and the tv I'll wait for a new firmware from Oppo and then the set will be perfect.

_Matt, UCSB,

Thanks for the quick responses!

Problem is, this sounds too simple. Does this mean that there are only 255 possible IR codes? This can't possibly be enough.

If you display the hex codes for a given IR command, it contains a lot of data. How does MakeHex know how to fill in all these data values based on a single input value? There must be more to this...

No, 255 options are all Samsung has to work with ... it is plenty. MakeHex creates the complex HEX string you see in ProntoEdit based on the the two digit HEX code for each command. Now you have to know what control settings to send MakeHex. These are in a preexisting control file (see my UCSB thread on remotecentral.com). Don't worry, it is plenty complex enough to get right. But, once you know how to do it there is really nothing to it.

Here is an example of the NECx2 control file that will generate Samsung codes:

Device=7.7
Function=233

Protocol=NECx2
Frequency=38000
Time Base=564
One=1,-3
Zero=1,-1
Prefix=8,-8
Suffix=1,-78
Default S=D
Form=;*,D:8,S:8,F:8,~F:8,_

You only change the function line to the decimal equivalent of the Samsung HEX code (use the free windows calculator in scientific mode to make the HEX to Decimal conversion) and run the file and you have the Pronto code.

... OR ... just pick up the file link a few pages back in this thread to get all 255 codes. But, be careful executing command codes that randomly can set values in your TV that you don't expect.

FLApilot, isn't it faster or better to exchange the set? Does it sort of work? Was that a TVA purchase? I can't see having any down time with a new set. I feel your pain.

I have now exceeded the 30 days for TVA and figure I am 0/2 on TV's shipped from them. Samsung now has the parts and I am willing to let them work on it and try to fix it. If that fails, I will petition Samsung direct to replace the set.

Why did you get a new screen? My light engine is coming tomorrow.

I also have a light engine on the way, but Samsung suggested the tech order a screen also in case the light engine wasn't the culprit and therefore only make one service call. The TV works good enough and so the delay is no problem with me.

360 isn't out yet. The current xbox is last gen technology running on a next gen tv. I wouldn't expect it to work perfectly. But the 360 and PS3 better work perfectly with these tvs (and other hd sets) or there will be a lot of disappointed folks.

Definitely will be worth to wait for the Xbox 360 to be tested on a new DLP tv to see if there's a delay. I hope that we are not caught in the middle with these DLP tvs being too new for what is available.

UCSB,

Thanks again for the detailed explanation!!

I knew there must be a way to specify all the relevant IR code parameters...

I also have a light engine on the way, but Samsung suggested the tech order a screen also in case the light engine wasn't the culprit and therefore only make one service call. The TV works good enough and so the delay is no problem with me.
OK. I suppose they will swap the LE first. See how bad your bending of the images is. Mine is pretty bad at 1/4 and 3/4 width (near the 4:3 borders) and then at the top and bottom now. I think this is a LE thing but it may also be the screen.

If the screen is swapped tell us what it fixed.

The new LE did fix the left/right sag alignment so now my bended top is equal on both sides ;)