Newbe question again. I am looking for a new dvd player for my 6168. I would like to stick with samsung for the ease of remotes. If the 6168 upconverts the signal coming in from a cheap dvd player, is there a need to get the more expensive one? And how is the hd 950? Thanks, Tom

There are atleast 2 opinions on this. The prevailing opinion (IMHO) is to get an upconverting DVD player for best results. The reasons are:

1) The less processing the TV has to do the better. This will go a long way in eliminating audio lip-sync issues when using an AV receiver for sound processing.

2) And the DVD players probably do a better job at upconverting than these TVs (I could be wrong on this one).

I think there is a DVD player thread on this site that you can search. HD950 is one of the cheapest ones available - so I am pretty sure people are talking a whole lot about it. :)

Newbe question again. I am looking for a new dvd player for my 6168. I would like to stick with samsung for the ease of remotes. If the 6168 upconverts the signal coming in from a cheap dvd player, is there a need to get the more expensive one? And how is the hd 950? Thanks, Tom

Here's a good site that reviews DVD players in depth. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all

This link is for all of their DVD player reviews so it make take a moment to load.

I hope this helps.

I went to Magnolia to check out the 5668. HD looked awesome. They were playing HDNet over DirecTivo. SD looked like crud, which I expected. About the same as my TV56X81. An ad was running with polaroids of people on angle and the edges were severely stepped. I guess dialing down the sharpness might help this.

The text was blurry, etc, but as I said, no diff than my 56X81. Good to see my TV is not in as bad a shape as I thought :)

These are truly gorgeous. Too bad I have to wait to buy a house first - I'll miss the power buy and it'll cost me a pretty penny, or many pretty pennies :)

Steve

Keep in mind that often those SD feeds are not from a digital source if you switched from the TIVO and not all their TV's are using component. I could not get BB in our area to switch and view and SD feed as they weren't setup for it. Our BB just remodelled and the new Magnolia may now be finished and can check it out but before they had Mag in-store they would not demo a direct SD channel as only certain sets were sharing off live Feeds and the rest streaming an HD feed.

It would be nice if we coud confirm from a new owner their experience in their home of SD if they have a digital connection through cable or Sat. Thanks for taking the time to give us the feedback of your experience. My current Sharp and Sony LCD FP comes in way better than it ever did in the store with every signal hopefully SD on this new model will give some digital PQ also. Thanks! :D

Got my 6168, samsung stand and neuNeo upconverting DVD player yesterday. IN general everything worked as well as advertised. The stand took about 90 minutes to assemble. Very clear instructions. The TV fits well. The silver speakers appear to me part of the stand making the floating screen design really look floating. The TV feels unusually light. I could lift it by myself and I am not particularly strong or athelatic.

Everything worked fine but I have a few issues
1. I don't have good HD source yet. I have only OTA signal and even a few HD singnals I get don't really broadcast good HD material. Therefore it is really hard to test PG.
2. I played a few DVD through NeuNeo DVD player. With component video, the picture is certainly better than standard NTSC or progressive NTSC. Better black and bettershaprnesss. But still doe snot come close to really HD material.
3. I had problems using HDMI from DVD player to the TV. I bought the cable from NeuNeo. The video is fine but audio cuts off regularly as if the bits are lost ormismatchh of thefrequencye and TV is trying to sync the audio with video. Tries several setting but it has not yet worked.
4. I am a Mac user so I will be trying out VGA and firewire connections this weekend. Anyone wants me to test anything in particular?
I have to get HD cable service -- planned for next week.

In summary, TV and stand look good, work well but require more testing before I see value from 1080 resolution!

Westa6969...I noticed that you have the HLR6768 as shipping 7/25...is this confirmed?...also does that mean TVA will be shipping them on the 25th to customers or Samsung is shipping them to retailers...tired of waiting for this beast.

I believe the last email I received this week that notified of the second shipments that they included a notice within that they still anticipated and listed the date as 7/25 for expected date of shipping of the 6768, I received this a few days ago but I have not received my confirmation call as yet and would not be surprised if a slight delay were to occur. This is the direct quote copied and pasted from the email:

The Samsung HL-R5688W release is imminent and a quick reminder that the HL-R6768W is still scheduled for release on 7/25.

My confirmation call may come later as I did not order until first week of July depending on how many are in front of me and quantity available. Looking for some quality reviews while I wait from owners ahead of me - to bad we can't send them a six pack or a fifth or a months subscription to the Playboy Channel as an incentive. :D

new xbox and PS3 don't exist yet. I don't think anyone should be saying what they will and won't do. The PS3 has already eliminated its 2nd network jack and router ability. Who knows what it'll be like whenever its released.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/highdefgaming.htm
A Blu-ray Dvd player will be included with the PS3.

Warner Bros. is working with MicroSoft encoding their Hd Dvd movies at 1920*1080 24fps progressive. Will these Samsungs accept this progressive input or will it have to be unnecessarily deinterlaced to be input to the display?

So what does a prudent consumers do, spend $5-8K on a display that will be second best and lose half of its value in less than a year? IMHO anyone spending over $2k should considering waiting until near Christmas. Imagine reading similar threads here on AVS forum next year. Then the real/true 1080p input displays, along with 1080p24fps HD players will rule the roost.

It would be nice if we coud confirm from a new owner their experience in their home of SD if they have a digital connection through cable or Sat. Thanks for taking the time to give us the feedback of your experience. My current Sharp and Sony LCD FP comes in way better than it ever did in the store with every signal hopefully SD on this new model will give some digital PQ also. Thanks! :D

My 6168 is being delivered Monday afternoon. I just picked up a SA 8000 HD DVR from Comcast cable. The rep at Comcast is telling PQ from this box will be better than cable card depite the fact that the DVI port is unactivated and I'll be using component. Is this guy full of it? They don't have 8300's available yet. Is there PQ loss across a HD-DVR typically?? After I'm all set up, I may have them bring a regular digital cable box (Motorola 4250?) with DVI out to compare.

I get MB on my triple-chip JVC LCOS so it is not just DLPs...

I will only spend the time to correct this one error. The current JVC LCOS technology has a poor pixel response time. Even JVC admits it as they exhibited their "new and improved" LCOS displays at the CES. The smearing of the current models as compared to the new models (to be introduced this fall?) was dramatic. Poor pixel response time is both "blocky and noisy". The entire worldwide LCD industry has worked with excellent progress to reduce these types of artifacts.
So while the symptoms are somewhat similar poor pixel response time is not macroblocking.

I immediately observed it in the stores each time I saw the JVC LCOS.
However I have high expectations that the new 1920*1080p JVC displays will make true advances in rear projector technology.

The irony is that you Tony recently spent $$$ on an expensive rear projector and are already not satisfied with the picture quality because of its poor pixel response and other limitations. (I would not be either). So here am I trying to prevent others from undergoing a similar ordeal and you are fighting me. Does misery enjoy company?

swankdaddy7

I received my HD Box a few months ago from Comcast and they provided component and were against hdmi use as the box would have needed a DVI-HDMI cable. My Sharp LCD comes in Awesome on HD via component and I cannot imagine a better PQ on a 32" TV so I haven't had to bother with the HDMI yet. Their installers are just learning how to do the cable cards and some of them are learning by the seat of their pants and who knows if you can believe what they say?

I just received my new Sammy 950 DVD and will try that sometime this weekend and it includes both an HDMI and DVI in the box - I'll see how that works but I don't want to report necessarily on it as my tests will be on my Sharp LCD until my 6768 arrives and some folks may get irritated if I'm reporting on a FP performace pending receipt of my 1080P Samsung. I rarely watch anything but HD now even though there are less than 20 channels but those 20 are frickin unbelievable and so I cannot wait to experience it on a 67" 1080P. Bottom line - the Component Cables give an awesome HD viewing experience. I'm hoping this 1080P can come close or exceed my Sharp LCD FP. :cool:

I don't think you are sure. :)

Computers can do it now, but there is very little 1080p source material available for computers.


Samsung won't be able to add 1080p input through HDMI with a firmware fix.

Yes, HTPCs can do that now and CRT FPTVs have been accepting 1080p for a long time. Anyway, when I say sources, I'm talking about devices which output 1080p. Apparently film based HiDef DVDS (both HDDVD and BR) will store 1080p 24fps. At a minimum I'd like my TVs to take that as input.

I think I read earlier that the chip Samsung uses can take 1080p. So I thought it may be a matter of firmware change .... can't think how that kind of a thing can be hardwired. Ofcourse if the chip can't handle 1080p ... thats a different issue. Then they should offer a board upgrade.

In a fast changing environment, what sounds esoteric today becomes the norm tomorrow. Couple of years back every one was fighting against HDCP in these board and I had not heard of HDMI. Now everyone demands HDMI with HDCP.

What I hate about getting one of these big TVs is the difficulty in selling these off to upgrade. After effortlessly going through five or six FPTVs and not losing much money with each upgrade, these TVs look like a bad "investment", esp. if they can't ever do 1080p on HDMI.

reincarnate

Has JVC announced any other advances besides the 1080P that includes improvements in blacks and CR? It appears everyone has but i haven't heard word of other areas of improvement besides 1080P on the JVC's.

Six months ago i would view the JVC's and many of them were the brightest and whitest on display but every place I went to view there appeared to be flaws in the panel itself. I could see random horizontal lines on the panels and then when the 720P's shipped around March i followed it and the responses were laden with problems and strong endorsement from any significant numbers were lacking. The QC issues turned me off and those panel lines I could observe at each store I visited which to looked to be a flaw in the panel itself.

There were high hopes for these JVC's after CES but i havn't heard of improvements in other areas besides the 1080P for JVC unlike the upcomiing Sony SXRD, Hitachi's, Toshiba's, Mits, and the Samsung 1080P - they worked on much more than just 1080P. I'm not saying your wrong but what else do they have to offer to overcome other weaknesses posted here over the past 6-9 months? Perhaps our Sammy's won't be the Holy Grail but the overall feedback has been demonstrably positive from respondents. Thanks for your input - Hope JVC's are improved as we all become winners through competition. :D

these TVs look like a bad "investment", esp. if they can't ever do 1080p on HDMI. nataraj

I've never considered my TV an investment especially a huge DLP? Unless your lucky enough to get a local buyer it could work but considering Electronics have sort of their own "Moore's Law" where technology changes so rapidly and price reductions how could resale keep up with this dynamic change unless it nominally subsidizes the next TV as today's 1080P may be next years dinosaur. i don't think they are any more an "Investment" than a PC is - just try pawning a PC that may have been state of the art a year earlier. Electronics follows this formula unless it is very unique. I sold my Bose SS HT after 5 yrs and got half what I paid for it on Ebay which isn't bad but it wasn't an investment but helped me migrate to newer technology that better suited my current needs. In that respect with some items it can help but it's not like holding onto a Mercedes SL500 convertible or collector car - vast majority are for enjoyment and decline -

Enjoy - Life is Short! The true investment is in enjoying the time we have not waiting for the time when it may be an investment or it may be the Holy Grail. It's only Money and all my other bill/tax collectors get plenty that I may not get enjoyment out of but at least I can truly enjoy this and that is the Investment (the experience)- not the money! If you gots the MONEY Enjoy and the hell with Waiting. :D

hi all,

well, my 6168 finally arrived today. SEKO guy arrived just when he said he would. i was there for delivery from my parking lot to my door. unpacked the tv, put it on the stand, plug it in, turn it on...

about a 1.5inch wavy black line goes horizontally from one end of the screen to the other, about 3/4 of the way down from the top of the screen.

this is w/no inputs connected.

the top of the screen is also distorted.

talked to samsung, they said they've never heard anything like it.

talked to james at TVA, they'll send me a new one when they can, and pick up the defective one :(

needless to say, i'm really really really disappointed. so close!

any ideas what might be wrong? samsung will send a technician out when they can. i supposed i can have the tv serviced, and still have TVA pick up the defective/repaired one?

ugh

-c

i'll try to post pics, once i get settled :(

pup73,

I can sympathize - just received my 6168 today and the lamp quit after about 2 hours of use! :( Samsung is dispatching a tech next week, but I doubt he'll have a part in-hand. Now I'm just hoping to have it working by the end of next week.
Here's to hoping the rest of you have better luck with your sets (I've got a six pack of Killian's Red with me to help ease the pain :) )

Hey westa6969, I noticed you said that your local Best Buy was remodeling and adding a magnolia.... I also noticed that you are in the suburbs of Detroit... That Best Buy wouldn't be the one off M59 right near the M53 ramp would it? Was just there the other day and noticed that they were remodeling... Would be nice if they are adding a Magnolia to it...

obviously something is not quite right w/this picture...the black wavy line was there immediately after turning it on. there is also alot of distortion at the top of the screen.

Samsung technicians will be here monday to see what they can do. TVA is going to ship a replacement.

since it's too late to call TVA right now, i'll ask this here on the forum-TVA immediately said they will ship a replacement and pick up the damaged TV. If the Samsung technicians are able to repair it on monday, do you guys think TVA would mind receiving a serviced but now functioning tv, or would they prefer receiving a malfunctioning tv, so they can either send it to Samsung themselves or service it themselves?

i ask this because if the Samsung technicians can fix it monday, there will be virtually no down time for my part.

BTW, has anyone seen this happen on a DLP?

thanks for any info

-c

skeeteroplagus

Yes, that's the one - I live out in the Stoney Creek area. I was there a few weeks back and what a mess the place was and they said they expected to be finished in a few weeks - I asked if the addition included a Magnolia and he said he thought so but you never know if those BB guys know anything beyond selling extended warranties. The last time i was there they didn't know what 1080P was - how could you sell HT and not know - as the Donald would say "Your FIRED!The misinformation you hear them spout off to customers is kind of tragic as many actually think they know what they are talking about.

Hopefully they'll clear the mess up because they had everything out in the open sharing poor connections and about 1 foot viewing distance for the DLP's lined up and I ask the guy how they could sell anything it all looked like crapola. If the stores still a mess I won't bother besides they always seem to get new TV's a month later than anyone else and was hoping they'd get a Mag center and improve things. One can hope anyways. :D

What a small world - I live in Macomb Twp. (22 mile road and Hayes...) I work out in Oxford sometimes so I pass near Stoney Creek on a normal basis.

I was at Best Buy on Wednesday and it was still a complete mess... I was looking at a 5667W they had on display and I couldn't believe the crap signal they were sending to it...

Ouch Pup73... Hopefully you get a new set asap! I hope my 5668W doesn't end up being a dud....

Is there a Calibration Specialist in the House? I would guess they or an AV Engineer would ID this in a heartbeat. Youmay want to post these Pic's in it's own thread to request help from all viewing.

Pup - WoW is that ever strange - almost looks like the interior of the panel has tape or something blocking the diplays and the displays is below where it should be and a cable or something hanging in the way accounting for the wave - does the wave move or is it static? I've never seen anything like that but I've never owned a DLP. It seems impossible to display in that fashion unless blocking is taking place inside? That is really strange. I can't think how you could purosely create such a wave with a mirrored projection even if you tried unless the panel was blocked inside from seeing or receiving the projection. Ouch - Good Luck!

So what does a prudent consumers do, spend $5-8K on a display that will be second best and lose half of its value in less than a year? IMHO anyone spending over $2k should considering waiting until near Christmas. Imagine reading similar threads here on AVS forum next year. Then the real/true 1080p input displays, along with 1080p24fps HD players will rule the roost.

Man, you must have really been burned. Is anyone out there paying any attention at all to this guy? This is an OWNERS thread... Go somewhere... please.

Samsung technicians will be here monday to see what they can do. TVA is going to ship a replacement.
I would cancel the service call, and go with a replacement. Why take on a repair risk when you can start over with a short delay.

I supose that TV will take the set back during the first 30 days but you will have to pay shipping. If you return it as defective you may not have to pay shipping. Check with TVA Monday.

nataraj

I've never considered my TV an investment especially a huge DLP? Unless your lucky enough to get a local buyer it could work but considering Electronics have sort of their own "Moore's Law" where technology changes so rapidly and price reductions how could resale keep up with this dynamic change unless it nominally subsidizes the next TV as today's 1080P may be next years dinosaur. i don't think they are any more an "Investment" than a PC is - just try pawning a PC that may have been state of the art a year earlier. ....


Well .... thats why I put the "investment" in quotes. It is a depreciating asset ... I don't want it be obsolete even before it has a chance to depreciate !

BTW, I've never had a problem selling pc components for about the same price on ebay as I had bought for a good price new. You have to be just a little ahead of the crowd ... and buy it at the right time.

I would have felt much more comfortable buying these Samsungs if they had supported 1080p on HDMI. Now ... it is a difficult decision. I wonder whether I should just continue using DLP FP for my main viewing and get a Plasma for the family room that I can put in Bed Room once I get a big RPTV. Esp. since I'd probably continue to watch movies on the big screen even if I get 6168.

Warner Bros. is working with MicroSoft encoding their Hd Dvd movies at 1920*1080 24fps progressive. Will these Samsungs accept this progressive input or will it have to be unnecessarily deinterlaced to be input to the display?


Isn't there a gap in the logic here. 1920*1080 24fps encoding does not imply a progressive interface and certainly not an 1920*1080 60fps. 1920*1080 24fps can be transfered without loss over an 1920*1080i (60 fields per second) interface. As you say, the conversion would be unnecessary, but I don't see how one argues from a disk encoding to a progressive interface requirement.

Don

I swear, if somebody mentions a gaming console once more (and not "I have one, here's my results" that's fine) I will take you outside, and drop an xbox on your foot ok? ok!

I swear every day I come in here I see a new post like this:

"OMG HAS ANYONE PLUGGED IN XYZ CONSOLE YET!!?!?!?!"

They're coming! be patient, people are still waiting to recieve their TV's, patience young grasshoppers

vent :\

- D


Well in an effort to throw a bone out to all the gamers trying to solve the questions about lag and the new sets. I get a call today from a sales person at Ultimate Electronics telling me that the new sammy's had arrived.

I packed up my xbox, like we all haven't thought about it, and headed out. I was pleased to find that it was indeed true and he would be happy to let me "test" (ie. play) the unit.

I hooked up the xbox via component and switched it to widescreen mode. turned it on and was amazed.

For game testing purposes I used Tom Clancy Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, because of its incredible detail and wide contrasting environments. The opening sequence is a rendered movie. It was bright and vivid, almost to vivid at times as you could indeed see that the source was limiting the tv. Then I noticed strange horizontal lines on faster moving content. I was fearing that this would be the case in actual gameplay as well.

Started up a game and went looking around. The black levels on this set are mind boggling. Everything looked incredible. The upconversion was pristine, kudos to samsung on putting an algorithm in that actually does what most hdtv's cant do well, standard def that looks good. During the game I did not find the horizontal nasties as found in the opening rendered movie, so I am inclined to take it as limitations in the source movie. The gameplay was fast free of lag and looked damn impressive, even got a little crowd going, pulling everyone away from the "mits" 3lcds once they saw this thing going.

So I can say for the lag issue. It is not there, or at least I couldn't find it. Everything looks awesome on this set and I am so glad I put the order in.

I also did try the XBOX as a DVD source. It looked amazing even though it was coming from the cruddy lower end xbox as a source. At times I was actually forgetting that it wasn't a high def source. Again the upconversion shines through. Everything color wise was in check and very acceptable. The seven segment color wheel really makes a huge difference as all the darker passages were detailed and crisp. I couldnt find any dot crawling, nor macroblocking. Even text on video sources was great and detailed not like the 720p sets where it wobbles. The chainmail armor in several passages was sizzling a bit but I am not sure I have ever seen a set that could do better. I got in very close to the screen about 3 inches and there is not a noticeable pixelation which of course meant there was not perceivable screen door effect.

Sorry for the longer post, hopefully this will help to answer some of the xbox questions.

Regards,

d:

I posted the following impressions in the main 2005 Samsung thread, but felt they also should be here.

============================

After spending a several hours with both a HLR6168W and HLR5078W on three difference occasions, I feel ready to add my comments to those of others about these truly outstanding TV’s.

I reviewed the TV’s at two locations: Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon (CA); and Fry’s in Fremont (CA). I’d like to thank the excellent staff at Magnolia HiFi!!! They worked with me to test/demo the TV under a large number of scenarios and went the extra distance to get good results. Thanks!!!

My impressions:

> These are outstanding TV’s. They were easily better than any other RPTV on display at either location. Since the HLR5078W was right next to the Qualia 006 at Magnolia, I compared the two TV’s. But, I don’t feel it is appropriate to compare a 50” to a 70” set, so the Samsung 1080p vs. Qualia 006 comparisons will have to wait until the 71” Samsung is available for comparison. Also, my intent here is not to compare the Samsungs to plasma, LCD, CRT, but I liked the new Samsung 1080p’s better than those technologies.

> Brightness – These TV’s are extremely bright. There is extensive headroom on brightness, even set at 50 on the 0 to 100 brightness scale in setup. The 5078 made all of the other TV’s on display look dim. Brightness is not going to be an issue. The extra head room will be used on the larger screen sizes (with lower max brightness specs) to maintain that bright attractive look.

> Contrast – The higher contrast ratio spec on these sets is readily apparent when viewing real life material. The picture is significantly better in this regard than the 720p units. The improved contrast takes PQ to a whole new level. The images have much more impact, when that is combined with the improved detail at 1080i the final result is an image that I have never seen on a RPTV.

> Color – Excellent. Rich, vibrant colors. Gone are the color problems of prior years.

> 1080p vs 720p – 1080p is definitely a clearer more detailed image than 720p (on 1080i material). I’m going to step up to 1080p! The improved resolution shows up best when appropriately sized detail is displayed on the screen. An example might be lettering on a sign or intricate detail.

> DVD Material – I had the opportunity to test with 5078 with a Denon 3910. The picture was disappointing and showed serious macroblocking (HDMI, 1080i setting). I decided to take another approach and the staff at Magnolia allowed me to swap the 3910 for a Samsung DVD-HD941 (HDMI, 480p). We really tried to get the Samsung set to 1080i, but I think the DVI to HDMI adapter we were using was causing a problem so I stepped back to 480p (NOTE, this was over HDMI). DVD’s looked stunning!!! Stable, beautiful images! The scaler in the Samsung was doing an excellent job. So if you have large DVD collection like I do (1000+ DVD’s), they will look superb! Again, thanks to the staff at Magnolia for allowing me to test with both DVD players under so many configurations!

> HD Material – HD material looked great! But, given the high performance of this TV we may be reaching a point were the equipment providing the HD signal, even the cable / sat company are going to start entering the equation big time. The HD material did not look as stable on the screen as the DVD material. I attribute this to one of the following causes: 1) Magnolia’s video distribution system was adding some signal degradation; or 2) the DirectTV HD signal is not as good as the Comcast signal that I watch every day. At any rate, the TV was being feed via component video and most of us will probably be using DVI/HDMI. Bottom line, it looked good and I would expect it to look much better (maybe perfect) once the set is at home. But, there is room for further testing here that just could not be done in the store. My guess is the TV will handle the signal perfectly (based on HDMI input from DVD player) and any small problems will be downstream from the TV in cable/sat box, broadcast, or material.

ADDED: Some of the faces on HD material looked like they had been smoothed. For lack of any terminology for this look, I will call then silk faces. I attributed this to possible signal compression on the DirectTV broadcast. If anyone has a very high quality HD feed, from quality HD equipment, via HDMI please let me know if this was just a problem unique to Magnolia's setup or DirectTV. It is the only defect that I observed on any of the material that I viewed.

> SD Material – SD looked good for SD. The set handled it well. People that were worried that SD would look worst on these sets, can relax that is not the case. I did not focus on SD material, it may have looked a little better than on a 720p set. Certainly did not look any worst.

> I did not take a game system up there with me, but Magnolia said that there would not be a problem if I wanted to bring one up and test. I probably will not do this because gaming is not a show stopper for me. I was unable to test any audio sync issues because of the setup. They also said that I could bring up my HTPC, but I won’t. Again, that is not a show stopper for me and I can better test HTPC performance at home.

In summary, I have seen enough. I am ready to buy!!! This is the upgraded system that I had hoped that it would be! It is even better than I expected. Hopefully, one of the owners will start running some of the other tests required to resolve the open issues on our list. :)

KUDO's to UCSB and mentalengine ;)

This is what we've been waiting for - further confirmation this is the real deal and stick to our pre-order guns knowing we are going to be rewarded with an awesome viewing experience despite the sniping 1080P doubting Thomas folks that love to hunt these Samsung threads - Feedback is shredding their B.S. propositions - PQ is not just Numbers Snipers - the 6768 was CNET choice for Best of Show at CES and the Next Best Thing Award for a reason and the show was dominated with 1080P so how do their propositions hold up when they don't own one? This is an owners thread not a Sniper's thread for frustrated Whiners that the Holy Grail of perfect 1080P isn't here. Can't wait for that 6768! I'll take my 1080P now not two years from now - if it looks awesome now it still look awesome 2 years or 10 years from now. Need I say who the snipers are - wait I'm sure they'll chime in with some mathematical crap to try and mask the reality of what has been reported by the two folks above as they wouldn't have it any other way - SNIPERS! Party Crashers can't you simply stay out of threads like this? What's your fricking purpose? :mad:

I'll trust the Feedback any day from the likes of UCSB over some Biased Whiner that have nothing better to do than SNIPE! Owners or To Be OWNERS REJOICE! The 2005 1080P version of the Holy grail may soon be at your Door! :D

since it's too late to call TVA right now, i'll ask this here on the forum-TVA immediately said they will ship a replacement and pick up the damaged TV.

As a note, you can ask TVA to test the replacement set at their warehouse prior to shipping it to you.

Here are my DNIe Demo screencaptures from LOTR:TT. The pictures were carefully taken with the camera on full manual (shutter, aperture, ISO, whitebalance, focus) while my arm was resting on a steady surface and the other hand was operating the remote. I had to be carefull with the shutter as not to get color changes from the darned wheel :D

I think the results speak for themselves but DNIe On is clearly on the left side of the screen and it is clearly different from with Demo OFF thus DNIe is not functioning on my set.

John, are you using one of the HDMI inputs? I have my STB (Moto 6412) hooked up with both component and DVI/HDMI. When I do the same test you do, DNIe is turned on on the component input and turned off on the HDMI input. Haven't checked out other sources to see if DNIe is on or off.

UCSB, you have been saying for a long time that DNIe may or may not be turned on for various sources - looks like you are right. :D

UCSB: Excellent report!!!!!!

Just a couple of follow-up questions, please.

1. Did you notice any lip sync issues with any of the source material? Were the internal speakers used? External speakers used?

2. Were you able to verify what sort of audio, 2.0 or 5.1, was output on the optical output as a funcition of the various inputs (HDMI, cable, over the ari, component, etc) to the TV?

Thanks for all of your effort.

Ok spent some more time looking at DNIe demo vs what happens when you switch the demo off. It is on in both cases, but it looks like less enhancement is done with the DVI/HDMI input versus the component input. I need to spend a lot more time but it looks like there is less color enhancement with DVI/HDMI than there is with component. Both look like there is detail/contrast enhancement.

John, are you using one of the HDMI inputs? I have my STB (Moto 6412) hooked up with both component and DVI/HDMI. When I do the same test you do, DNIe is turned on on the component input and turned off on the HDMI input. Haven't checked out other sources to see if DNIe is on or off.

UCSB, you have been saying for a long time that DNIe may or may not be turned on for various sources - looks like you are right. :D

The observations I made were via component. I have come to believe the DNIe demo is a complete fraud, the side that says on is very close to what my screen looks like if I tweak parameters so that sharpness and contrast are very high and the side of the demo that says off is very close to what my screen looks like if I tweak parameters in the opposite direction.

I see no evidence that the results displayed by the DNIe demo can not be replicated via adjustments to other picture parameters that we are used to adjusting on our sets to get a faithfull picture. Since my current settings are set so that the screen looks more like the picture displayed on the off side of DNIe demo I am just planning on ignoring the whole issue of DNIe.

I believe the demo is made to purposefully make the DNIe On side and DNIe off side look very different so ignorant consumers will look at it in a store and say, oh yeah that makes a big improvement. While knowledgeable consumers will realize that the On Side is overly processed and the off side is slightly muted. No matter what your personal preferences are I believe proper adjustments to the traditional, variable, picture settings can achieve that look regardless of what this DNIe processing is or is not doing.

Meanwhile I just wait for my lamp to burn in a while before I run through AVIA.

Is DNIe applied to the VGA input? I plan on running 1080P from my iscanHD through the VGA connector.

[QUOTE=UCSB]I posted the following impressions in the main 2005 Samsung thread, but felt they also should be here.

============================

.

ADDED: Some of the faces on HD material looked like they had been smoothed. For lack of any terminology for this look, I will call then silk faces. I attributed this to possible signal compression on the DirectTV broadcast. If anyone has a very high quality HD feed, from quality HD equipment, via HDMI please let me know if this was just a problem unique to Magnolia's setup or DirectTV. It is the only defect that I observed on any of the material that I viewed.



This is exactly my major concern with a 1080P display. The only 1080P larger than 40" that I have seen so far is the Sharp Aquos 45". It looks terrible and probably one of the worst sets . It has the so called "clayface" and perhaps the same problem you described as "silkface". It's very easy to see if you look at a tree, for example, you don't see the leaves but just a smooth green "dough".

I would like to hear from everybody who sees the Samsung how bad is this "silkface" stuff. If it looks like the Sharp , i's a no go for me.

sergio

I very quickly hooked up my tablet PC to the VGA Port and was very pleased with the results at 1920x1080 @ 60Hz. Didn't spend a lot of time but the text was crisp and easily readable. There was underscan using the PC mode. I didn't try to do any adjustment.

John, I think you are probably correct about DNIe. Right now is is sooooo much more fun to just watch, that it is hard to do any real testing of various modes. :D

"Warner Bros. is working with MicroSoft encoding their Hd Dvd movies at 1920*1080 24fps progressive. Will these Samsungs accept this progressive input or will it have to be unnecessarily deinterlaced to be input to the display?"

As dbwhite indicated, it will obviously need to be deinterlaced. Assuming the 3:2 pulldown logic in PS3 and the TV cooperate, the picture will look identical to transfering 1080p/24fps over HDMI. But we won't know that until the PS3 ships.

KUDO's to UCSB and mentalengine ;)

This is what we've been waiting for - further confirmation this is the real deal and stick to our pre-order guns knowing we are going to be rewarded with an awesome viewing experience despite the sniping 1080P doubting Thomas folks that love to hunt these Samsung threads - Feedback is shredding their B.S. propositions - PQ is not just Numbers Snipers - the 6768 was CNET choice for Best of Show at CES and the Next Best Thing Award for a reason and the show was dominated with 1080P so how do their propositions hold up when they don't own one? This is an owners thread not a Sniper's thread for frustrated Whiners that the Holy Grail of perfect 1080P isn't here. Can't wait for that 6768! I'll take my 1080P now not two years from now - if it looks awesome now it still look awesome 2 years or 10 years from now. Need I say who the snipers are - wait I'm sure they'll chime in with some mathematical crap to try and mask the reality of what has been reported by the two folks above as they wouldn't have it any other way - SNIPERS! Party Crashers can't you simply stay out of threads like this? What's your fricking purpose? :mad:

I'll trust the Feedback any day from the likes of UCSB over some Biased Whiner that have nothing better to do than SNIPE! Owners or To Be OWNERS REJOICE! The 2005 1080P version of the Holy grail may soon be at your Door! :D

Not sniping, but side by side, the Qualia still looks better, and there are smaller versions of the Qualia coming out soon...Enjoy it until little Qualias come out :D

KUDO's to UCSB and mentalengine ;)


Ditto.

I'll be ordering mine soon as the bank will allow.

Not sniping, but side by side, the Qualia still looks better, and there are smaller versions of the Qualia coming out soon...Enjoy it until little Qualias come out :D

This is true, but have you seen the MSRP of these sets? The Sony 60" will cost $1500 more then the PowerBuy price. Of course the Sony sets will be somewhat discounted, but I also expect by that time the Samsung sets to be discounted, too. So is the Sony worth the extra $1500? Is it 40% better then the Samsung? I still think the Samsung, and by that time, the Toshibas will really give you the best bargain.

Just a note to people that have the new Sammys. These TVs have a built in QAM tuner for cable TV. Based on my experience w/ my Panny plasma, CableCARD is NOT required to get it to work. In fact, you don't even need to subscribe to cable tv, if you have cable internet that's enough. Can somebody report on performance with HD cable and no box/card?

John, I think you are probably correct about DNIe. Right now is is sooooo much more fun to just watch, that it is hard to do any real testing of various modes. :D

I could not agree more :D

"Warner Bros. is working with MicroSoft encoding their Hd Dvd movies at 1920*1080 24fps progressive. Will these Samsungs accept this progressive input or will it have to be unnecessarily deinterlaced to be input to the display?"

As dbwhite indicated, it will obviously need to be deinterlaced. Assuming the 3:2 pulldown logic in PS3 and the TV cooperate, the picture will look identical to transfering 1080p/24fps over HDMI. But we won't know that until the PS3 ships.

Even if the disc content is encoded using 1080p24 I believe that desire to adhere to multiple standards will require the players to be able to output a 1080i60 digital output that the when the TV does 3:2 pulldown it will basically recover the entire content.

New standards will arrive that improve upon standard HD resolutions (720p and 1080i) but for the foreseable future all devices will perform very well at these standard resolutions. While it may be better to wait if you haven't gotten sick of waiting it is by no means a mistake to buy now.

anyone else tried video games on there 6168, something like halo or halo 2 to see if there is any lag? if someone has a tv would they please test out a game like that to see if there is lag or not, thanks

[QUOTE=UCSB]I posted the following impressions in the main 2005 Samsung thread, but felt they also should be here.

============================

.

ADDED: Some of the faces on HD material looked like they had been smoothed. For lack of any terminology for this look, I will call then silk faces. I attributed this to possible signal compression on the DirectTV broadcast. If anyone has a very high quality HD feed, from quality HD equipment, via HDMI please let me know if this was just a problem unique to Magnolia's setup or DirectTV. It is the only defect that I observed on any of the material that I viewed.



This is exactly my major concern with a 1080P display. The only 1080P larger than 40" that I have seen so far is the Sharp Aquos 45". It looks terrible and probably one of the worst sets . It has the so called "clayface" and perhaps the same problem you described as "silkface". It's very easy to see if you look at a tree, for example, you don't see the leaves but just a smooth green "dough".

I would like to hear from everybody who sees the Samsung how bad is this "silkface" stuff. If it looks like the Sharp , i's a no go for me.

sergio

Sergio ... the effect I was describing is not the clay faces of prior years. It is not the effect you will see on a LCD TV. I think it was in the store feed or compression in the DirectTV broadcast. Complexions seemed too smooth.

I think the DNIe demo is just a carry-over item from last year's hlp sets. It was probably cheaper to leave it on than to take it off, so they essentially just decided to disable the switch. Would have been cleaner for them to have just eliminated the demo, but it's not a big deal.

anyone else tried video games on there 6168, something like halo or halo 2 to see if there is any lag? if someone has a tv would they please test out a game like that to see if there is lag or not, thanks

It's interesting all this talk about game lag with the Samsung sets. I've got an HLN-W1 model (no green tint for me!) and when I first hooked up my Xbox with S-Video, I too noticed a lag. I would press the jump button and there for sure was a slight delay before he actually jumped.

All I did was purchase the 'HD' pack, hooked up component cables from xbox to TV and presto... no more lag. I've been lag free ever since.

Well .... thats why I put the "investment" in quotes. It is a depreciating asset ... I don't want it be obsolete even before it has a chance to depreciate !

BTW, I've never had a problem selling pc components for about the same price on ebay as I had bought for a good price new. You have to be just a little ahead of the crowd ... and buy it at the right time.

I would have felt much more comfortable buying these Samsungs if they had supported 1080p on HDMI. Now ... it is a difficult decision. I wonder whether I should just continue using DLP FP for my main viewing and get a Plasma for the family room that I can put in Bed Room once I get a big RPTV. Esp. since I'd probably continue to watch movies on the big screen even if I get 6168.

The thing is that other than a PC - there isnt any consumer hardware out that outputs 1080P source material. I would assume that being first to market and keeping cost down, Samsung focused on supporting what was currently available and not speculation on what "might" be available.

Yes - I believe sometime in 2006 we will see true 1080P DLP TV because Sony has already committed components that will output that source. But about the same time the 2006 models are released, we will hear rumors about a new advancement that will make people think about waiting until 2007. It never ends.

My 6168 is beautiful! :) However, it does have a minor problem.

The right hand side of the image looks perfectly aligned horizontally and vertically. The left hand side of the image, however, seems to have a slight horizontal slope to it.

Is fixing this slope a software or a hardware issue? In other words, do I call Samsung or a ISF calibrator? If it is a calibration issue, are there any ISF calibrators planning on visiting Albuquerque any time soon?

Thanks,

John

This seems to be the place for new Samsung 1080p owners, so here I go. I'm new to these forums, and before posting I did a search and read many posts to find answers to some questions I have. I haven't found straight answers, and was hoping a more experienced DLP HDTV person might be able to shed some light.

After considerable research, I decided to upgrade from a 30" CRT SDTV to a 56" HDTV. I ultimately decided on the brand new 1080p, Samsung DLP, 56" 68 series. I took delivery of it two days ago. I have two questions.

1) Rainbows: While researching DLP, HDTVs, I did not see any of the rainbow effects possible with single chip, color wheel DLPs. However, I do now on this 1080p, 68 series Samsung. In the stores, I was largely viewing HDTV signals in 720p or 1080i, and currently, I have my SDTV, digital Comcast cable connected via composite video to this Samsung. The cable guy will bring an HDTV cable box in a few days. Does anyone think/know if the resolution of the signal or quality of the connection has anything to do with rainbow effects? In other words, might a connection from the HDTV cable box via component or DVI cables provide less rainbow effects on either SDTV or HDTV channels?

2) On another note, possibly related, since this is a brand-new (just released) DLP 1080p TV, might an external scaler, such as the DVDO iScan HD+ improve picture quality on SDTV channels and DVD playback? The reason I ask is b/c I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that this new HDTV should have the latest in scaling technology/algorithms to display 480i and 480p signals the best possible on this 1080p HDTV. Anyone think/know if the DVDO iScan HD+ will help on this Samsung HL-R5668W?
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The left hand side of the image, however, seems to have a slight horizontal slope to it.

Is fixing this slope a software or a hardware issue?
It's not a software or calibration issue. From your description I can't be sure but it sounds like an issue that is present on all RPTV sets due to the short distance to the screen.

1) Rainbows:... In the stores, I was largely viewing HDTV signals in 720p or 1080i, and currently... Does anyone think/know if the resolution of the signal or quality of the connection has anything to do with rainbow effects?
The resolution doesn't, but the type of images you are watching, and the room lighting can make rainbows easier to see.

Watching in a room with all the lights out will make them worse for some people.

Moving bright objects in a dark scene will also make them easier to see.

Darting your eyes away from the image rapidly will too.

The resolution doesn't, but the type of images you are watching, and the room lighting can make rainbows easier to see.

Watching in a room with all the lights out will make them worse for some people.

Moving bright objects in a dark scene will also make them easier to see.

Darting your eyes away from the image rapidly will too.

Geez, what are you doing, TRYING to make him see MORE rainbows!?

:p

This seems to be the place for new Samsung 1080p owners, so here I go. I'm new to these forums, and before posting I did a search and read many posts to find answers to some questions I have. I haven't found straight answers, and was hoping a more experienced DLP HDTV person might be able to shed some light.

After considerable research, I decided to upgrade from a 30" CRT SDTV to a 56" HDTV. I ultimately decided on the brand new 1080p, Samsung DLP, 56" 68 series. I took delivery of it two days ago. I have two questions.

1) Rainbows: While researching DLP, HDTVs, I did not see any of the rainbow effects possible with single chip, color wheel DLPs. However, I do now on this 1080p, 68 series Samsung. In the stores, I was largely viewing HDTV signals in 720p or 1080i, and currently, I have my SDTV, digital Comcast cable connected via composite video to this Samsung. The cable guy will bring an HDTV cable box in a few days. Does anyone think/know if the resolution of the signal or quality of the connection has anything to do with rainbow effects? In other words, might a connection from the HDTV cable box via component or DVI cables provide less rainbow effects on either SDTV or HDTV channels?

2) On another note, possibly related, since this is a brand-new (just released) DLP 1080p TV, might an external scaler, such as the DVDO iScan HD+ improve picture quality on SDTV channels and DVD playback? The reason I ask is b/c I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that this new HDTV should have the latest in scaling technology/algorithms to display 480i and 480p signals the best possible on this 1080p HDTV. Anyone think/know if the DVDO iScan HD+ will help on this Samsung HL-R5668W?
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You can run a test immediately. Plug your coax cable directly into your TV and let the TV find all of the stations. It should find some HD stations, some digital SD, and some analog SD stations. Enjoy. Take your current Comcast STB and just hold on to it until the Comcast HD box arrives. This should solve your problems, if not come back and let us know.

Geez, what are you doing, TRYING to make him see MORE rainbows!?

:p

Yeah . . . I was hoping sending the video over component or DVI/HDMI or an external video scaler at 75Hz or something would decrease these rainbows. To be clear, I'm not shaking my head around or doing anything unnatural to see these rainbows. I'm just watching SDTV over composite video from a digital cable box. I find this very distracting. If HDTV cable box doesn't improve this, I'm taking this set back and waiting for the JVC 1080p D-ILA in September.

Since I got this set two days ago, I've been researching rainbows and DLP and found this quote: "According to a talk I had with Gene O'Donnell, Director of Advanced Displays and Systems at Thomson (RCA), he said an Air Force study of DLP color breakup determined that 2500 sub-frames per second would be required in a sequential color display single-chip DLP system in order to totally avoid color breakup effects. The Air Force was analyzing different display technologies for avionics systems, and fighter pilots cannot tolerate any artifacts or flashes of color in their peripheral vision due to display deficiencies.

With six color segments spinning at 9000rpm, or 150rps, the HLN4365W delivers 900 sub-frames per second (150 x 6), which is about 3X slower than what would be required to totally eradicate the rainbow effect." So the new Samsungs at 10,800 rpm = 180rps = 1080 sub-frames per second = less than half what the Air Force says is needed to eradicate rainbows. I guess I'm one of the unlucky ones who see the rainbows and find them unacceptable.

You can run a test immediately. Plug your coax cable directly into your TV and let the TV find all of the stations. It should find some HD stations, some digital SD, and some analog SD stations. Enjoy. Take your current Comcast STB and just hold on to it until the Comcast HD box arrives. This should solve your problems, if not come back and let us know.

Will this work even if I haven't ordered HDTV service yet from comcast? They come on Wednesday.

Will this work even if I haven't ordered HDTV service yet from comcast? They come on Wednesday.

Yes ... try it. I think it will solve your problem. Just plug the cable directly into the TV and let it automatically find all of the stations. It will give you the best possible reception. Come back and let us know if you still see the rainbows. You should get several HD stations ... but, not all of the stations that are available with a HD subscription.

Yes ... try it. I think it will solve your problem. Just plug the cable directly into the TV and let it automatically find all of the stations. It will give you the best possible reception. Come back and let us know if you still see the rainbows. You should get several HD stations ... but, not all of the stations that are available with a HD subscription.

I did it. I get channels 1-70 something. The built in digital cable tuner only has channels 1-130something. If I run the cable through the cable box, then into the Sammy, via composite or coaxial cable, I get all the channels I always did (300something), but no new ones, no HD ones. I think the HD channels here in northern California via Comcast are 200-220 or something, and I can't tune those. I'll wait till Wednesday. But for now, no change in rainbows.

I did it. I get channels 1-70 something. The built in digital cable tuner only has channels 1-130something. If I run the cable through the cable box, then into the Sammy, via composite or coaxial cable, I get all the channels I always did (300something), but no new ones, no HD ones. I think the HD channels here in northern California via Comcast are 200-220 or something, and I can't tune those. I'll wait till Wednesday. But for now, no change in rainbows.I use to see rainbows...but after 2 weeks I didn't see them again...same goes for my son he saw them for the first couple days...gone. Give the TV a couple of weeks and see if anything changes...and don't go looking for them. :D

I did it. I get channels 1-70 something. The built in digital cable tuner only has channels 1-130something. If I run the cable through the cable box, then into the Sammy, via composite or coaxial cable, I get all the channels I always did (300something), but no new ones, no HD ones. I think the HD channels here in northern California via Comcast are 200-220 or something, and I can't tune those. I'll wait till Wednesday. But for now, no change in rainbows.

So you plugged the Comcast coax cable directly into the TV ... not through the set-top-box, and you didn't get any HD stations. Well I don't know where you are in No. Ca, but in most No. Ca. locations you should get at least the networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.) and PBS. PBS does not broadcast until 8PM and the networks may be showing SD shows. If you are still seeing rainbows after the set is clearly tuning the stations, than you are suseptible to them. Some people notice a reduction in rainbows during the first week or two of viewing. But, you may be just one of the people that see's them.

Could someone tuning Comcast stations directly off of the cable, give sleep doc a few pointers. I don't think the station numbers match up with the STB numbers ... so something seems to be a little wrong.

Just ordered my 6178 today using the PB! I got an August 6 stock date. Question to the owners: Is there a way that the HLRxxx8w's can power off the bulb but still let sound come out of the two stereo speakers? Being that it'll serve as my PC display, I don't want the sound to cut out whenever the screen saver/power management kicks in.

Also on order is the TR61X2 stand but it appears that the stand is made for the 6168's with the stand's gap in the middle. Would it look weird with a 6178 on top of it? Finally, what powered subwoofer do you guys have plugged into the TV?

Thanks!
Ben H

HLR6178W (Coming Soon!)
P4 3.2Ghz, 2GB RAM
NVidia GeForce 6800GT
Haupaugge PVR250
SageTV
Comcast Basic Cable Analog Service (for now)

On my Comcast service in Seattle the HD locals are mapped in the 80's, i.e. 81.1, 81.5, etc. Suffice to say Comcast buries the HD's with obscure numbers because they don't want you watching free QAM. They want to you to pay for a digital cable package and rent the boxes so they can make more money.

I don't think most TV's will "automatically" find HD cable channels. You have to run the setup program to scan for them and on my TV you must specify you a cable scan as opposed to an OTA scan.

Also, for you guys new to HDTV with a cable box, don't forget to set your cable box to 1080i and 16x9. Usually, you must press to POWER and MENU to access a cable box setup.

Just ordered my 6178 today using the PB! I got an August 6 stock date. Question to the owners: Is there a way that the HLRxxx8w's can power off the bulb but still let sound come out of the two stereo speakers? Also on order is the TR61X2 stand but it appears that the stand is made for the 6168's with the stand's gap in the middle. Would it look weird with a 6178 on top of it? Finally, what powered subwoofer do you guys have plugged into the TV?

Thanks!
BenParadigm 2200 to a yamaha receiver...BANG BANG BOOM :D

BIG NEWS

Just dragged out the PC and connected it over DVI/HDMI. Cranked the resolution to 1920x1080 and 60Hz and I've got a picture. The attachment is the screen shot of the Display Property box and the Plug & Play monitor box showing 1920x1080 and 60Hz. There are problems with the display that will have to be worked out (overscan, issues with text etc.). The video card and computer are not the newest (my son's hand me downs :D) and I'm not sure where I am at on drivers but I am ecstatic that this even works. I'll get my son to drag his computer into the where the set is and we can work more on what is possible over the next few days. :D :D :D

BIG NEWS

Just dragged out the PC and connected it over DVI/HDMI. Cranked the resolution to 1920x1080 and 60Hz and I've got a picture. The attachment is the screen shot of the Display Property box and the Plug & Play monitor box showing 1920x1080 and 60Hz. There are problems with the display that will have to be worked out (overscan, issues with text etc.). The video card and computer are not the newest (my son's hand me downs :D) and I'm not sure where I am at on drivers but I am ecstatic that this even works. I'll get my son to drag his computer into the where the set is and we can work more on what is possible over the next few days. :D :D :D

If the card is using an ATI chip, ATI just released a new set of drivers with enhanced 1080 support. Check your video board against the supported boards.

It's an Nvidia 5700LE card and they also have newer dirvers than what's installed. Time to do some messing around!

Also on order is the TR61X2 stand but it appears that the stand is made for the 6168's with the stand's gap in the middle. Would it look weird with a 6178 on top of it? Finally, what powered subwoofer do you guys have plugged into the TV?
The stand adjusts, you can assemble it in two configurations, one for the 61", one for the 67".

And schaffer970 - thanks for the good news! I cant wait to have DVI/HDMI hooked into a mac mini. All the goodness of OSX on a 61" Screen. Was there any lag through DVI/HDMI? I might hook up my PC to play games too...

UCSB, Are you going to start answering those unanswered questions on post 1 of the HLR discussion thread?

UCSB, Are you going to start answering those unanswered questions on post 1 of the HLR discussion thread?

Yes, I will add answers under each of the questions in POST #3 of this thread ... as they become available and are confirmed. Here is a list of the questions. Everyone should review the list and if we have a definitive answer for a question. If you have an answer post it. I will then add the answer under the question on the list. In addition, I will add a link to POST #1 in the main Samsung thread pointing to POST #3 over here.

====================

The issues that are listed below are the issues that we currently are still investigating. Please feel free to suggest new open issues. Hopefully, we will be able to answer all of the questions below over the next few weeks.

====================

What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets on the HDMI input(1920x1080?)? Specifically, does it support 1080i or 1080p?

2. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units?

3. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port?

4. Will Samsung provide any method (USB port/PC, Memory Cards) for customers to apply firmware upgrades to the new 1080p HDTVs? There are two other manufacturers that currently provide this capability for their DLP sets.

5. On the 1080p sets, which inputs have DNIe turned on all of the time. On the HDMI inputs and other inputs (VGA/PC, 1394), is DNIe ON or OFF? Does selecting a specific device type with inputs that have DNIe on all of the time reduce the level of processing (selecting GAME on component, for example)?

6. Will 1080p sets support multichannel audio (5.1) on the HDMI inputs? 720p sets only support 2 channels and this prevents a multichannel pass through to a receiver. This is important to manage sync in some situations.


Items We Would Like To Test, But Need To Wait Until HDTV's Are Released:

1. Do the remote control IR discrete codes work for ALL inputs?

2. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

3. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units (68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

4. Will 1080p be supported on the HDMI input on the 1080p models (68, 78, 88 series)? All of our information collected up to this point indicates that it won't, but it is an important item and many of us hope Samsung will find a way to include it in the final production sets. It should be checked when the sets are released.

5. How will SD broadcasts look on the 1080p sets? How will this compare to SD broadcasts on 720p sets?

6. How will standard DVD's look on the 1080p sets? How will standard DVD's look after being upshifted by the better upshifting DVD players in comparison to standard DVD on the 720p sets? Is there any advantage to the new 1080p sets when playing standard DVD's?

7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p?

8. When setting up a given input, such as HDMI or Component 1, does the processing associated with the input change when you select a different descriptive name for the input (such as GAME, DVD, HD STB, etc.)?

9. Can you get 1:1 pixel mapping of a computer input on the PC/VGA input (at 1920x1080)? On HDMI? If so, how exactly is it setup and what picture mode do you use?

Actually, after reading the questions again, I think that through my own testing I can now answer several of them. I will try to get those answers into the POST this evening. Other testers and owners, please post your comments.

I was wondering if anyone that got one of the new HD950 DVD players aompared the picture with 480P -vs- 1080i my order hasn't shipped yet wait on the 6768 and was going to get the HD950. I already have a progressive scan DVD and UCSB said the 480p look very good on the sets he checked.

I was wondering if anyone that got one of the new HD950 DVD players aompared the picture with 480P -vs- 1080i my order hasn't shipped yet wait on the 6768 and was going to get the HD950. I already have a progressive scan DVD and UCSB said the 480p look very good on the sets he checked.

That was on a up shifting Samsung player via HDMI. The player was sending a digital 480p image to the TV. I was having trouble getting the 1080i output working (possibly a cable adapter problem). I didn't check 480p over component video but would expect that to not look as good.

I was wondering if anyone that got one of the new HD950 DVD players aompared the picture with 480P -vs- 1080i my order hasn't shipped yet wait on the 6768 and was going to get the HD950. I already have a progressive scan DVD and UCSB said the 480p look very good on the sets he checked.I had the Samsung HD950 and tried it with my HLN567 and the picture seemed really soft...but no MB problems, I sent it back and bought the OPPO and it does have some MB with some movies but hardly noticable...but the picture is very sharp and crisp...which is what I was looking for.

I have know clue how either of these players are going to be with the new 1080P sets...I have the HLR6768 on order and when I get it I will test it with the OPPO and a HD941...and report back with the results...just need my TV ;)

jhixson - I was wondering if anyone that got one of the new HD950 DVD players aompared the picture with 480P -vs- 1080i my order hasn't shipped yet wait on the 6768 and was going to get the HD950. I already have a progressive scan DVD and UCSB said the 480p look very good on the sets he checked.
I just received my 950 yesterday and I didn't do any serious testing other than watch Hitch and was connected via HDMI that came free with the Player and it automatically displayed it at 1080i and then it let me remove the letterbox effect but I cannot recall which setting it was - may have been Cinema. I just replaced a Sony progressive and this was a very nice HD quality much like my HD channels that are in 1080i.

It does far more than what i threw at it as all I wanted to do was see an HD PQ without the blackbars. Wide Screen 1080i with black bars above an below seemed to be best PQ but it looked like great HD quality on my Aquos LCD FP as I'm still awaiting my 6768 soon I hope. I'm very happy with the 950 but I have to try more things with it. I experienced no issues whatsoever other than a beautiful HD PQ and I have no familiarity with the Denon folks are discussing but this does what I want it to and then some and was $179 w/free S&H so it's no big deal if I go Blu-Ray later in the year and rotate this to my wifes. :D

BIG NEWS

Just dragged out the PC and connected it over DVI/HDMI. Cranked the resolution to 1920x1080 and 60Hz and I've got a picture. The attachment is the screen shot of the Display Property box and the Plug & Play monitor box showing 1920x1080 and 60Hz. There are problems with the display that will have to be worked out (overscan, issues with text etc.). The video card and computer are not the newest (my son's hand me downs :D) and I'm not sure where I am at on drivers but I am ecstatic that this even works. I'll get my son to drag his computer into the where the set is and we can work more on what is possible over the next few days. :D :D :D

I have not tried using DVI/HDMI yet. I have my Linux box hooked up via a high quality VGA cable. Once I came up with a good modeline, it looked awesome!

Actually had a little bit of underscanning. I could probably adjust that with some tweaks to the modeline, but it was easier to use the adjustment built into the Samsung. With the "PC" input, the Samsung allows you to grow/shrink the image, and move it up/down/left/right.

I have a Panasonic RP56 DVD player, which looked great on my Sony 40XBR700, but does not look as good on the HL-R6168W. Using my Linux box to play a DVD, however, looks fantastic.

John

It's not a software or calibration issue. From your description I can't be sure but it sounds like an issue that is present on all RPTV sets due to the short distance to the screen.

Thanks. The slope is actually smaller than I thought. I finally got out a ruler and mesured it, and the difference is less than 2mm. Must partially be an optical illusion :o

John

BIG NEWS

Just dragged out the PC and connected it over DVI/HDMI. Cranked the resolution to 1920x1080 and 60Hz and I've got a picture. The attachment is the screen shot of the Display Property box and the Plug & Play monitor box showing 1920x1080 and 60Hz. There are problems with the display that will have to be worked out (overscan, issues with text etc.). The video card and computer are not the newest (my son's hand me downs :D) and I'm not sure where I am at on drivers but I am ecstatic that this even works. I'll get my son to drag his computer into the where the set is and we can work more on what is possible over the next few days. :D :D :D

That's awexome, provided that this confirms what the Samsung tech told me over the phone, that if you could provide a 1080p signal, the TV will take it and display it. =) Thanks so much for posting this.

My 5668 is due to ship out on July 29. My HTPC is an Athlon 64/3500, with a Gainward (nVidia) 6800 GT 256MB graphics card; it has a DVI-D output. I will definitely try this out and let you all know how it goes.

Question: are DVI-D female to HDMI-male cables sold pretty much anywhere, or does converting between the two require some sort of conversion box?

That's awexome, provided that this confirms what the Samsung tech told me over the phone, that if you could provide a 1080p signal, the TV will take it and display it. =) Thanks so much for posting this.

My 5668 is due to ship out on July 29. My HTPC is an Athlon 64/3500, with a Gainward (nVidia) 6800 GT 256MB graphics card; it has a DVI-D output. I will definitely try this out and let you all know how it goes.

Question: are DVI-D female to HDMI-male cables sold pretty much anywhere, or does converting between the two require some sort of conversion box?I bought my cables at Ram...quality is very good and decent prices...Check out their site up above they are a AVS Alliance Member.

schaeffer970, could you post some more desktop shots? I'd like to get a better gauge of the overscan. Thanks.

Here's a pix of the full screen of the set. Like I said, the video card and PC seems to be barely keeping up with trying to push out this many pixels. The text has some issues at this resolution. I played one of the WMV clips that is 1080p through media player and it looked pretty good. We need lots more testing and the most current video cards to see what can be done.

AkaStp, yes the info button on the Sammy shows 1920x1080p.

I will only spend the time to correct this one error. The current JVC LCOS technology has a poor pixel response time. Even JVC admits it as they exhibited their "new and improved" LCOS displays at the CES. The smearing of the current models as compared to the new models (to be introduced this fall?) was dramatic. Poor pixel response time is both "blocky and noisy". The entire worldwide LCD industry has worked with excellent progress to reduce these types of artifacts.
So while the symptoms are somewhat similar poor pixel response time is not macroblocking.

I immediately observed it in the stores each time I saw the JVC LCOS.
However I have high expectations that the new 1920*1080p JVC displays will make true advances in rear projector technology.

The irony is that you Tony recently spent $$$ on an expensive rear projector and are already not satisfied with the picture quality because of its poor pixel response and other limitations. (I would not be either). So here am I trying to prevent others from undergoing a similar ordeal and you are fighting me. Does misery enjoy company?

Hi Reincarnate,

Actually I have not recevied my Samsung 6168w yet but based on many of the
reports I have read so far I suspect I will be very satisified with this purchase.
I purchased this set via the AVS / TVA Powerbuy, got a great price for a TV that
has just started shipping, and will have 30 days to fully evaluate this set in the
environment in which it will be viewed.

But the point you are missing is that the macroblocking we are discussing is from
the Faroudja FLI-2310 chip which has the known problem of introducing errors
into the decoding process which show up on many microdisplays as a MB problem.
It is this type of MB that shows up on my JVC and which I observed on the Mits
1080p DLP and which sounds like will be present on my Sammy. So my solution
is to simply ugrade my DVD player to one which does not use the Faroudja FLI-2310 chip.

Lastly, forgot about the JVC 1080p if you care about contrast ratio and black
levels because the 1080p D-ILA technology sucks in this respect. If you don't like
single chip DLP and / or you see rainbows wait for the new Sony SXRDs since
they will be closest to 1080p DLP in this respect.

Best regards,

Tony

Hi, all. Thanks for the excellent reviews.

Can anyone comment on the viewing angle? I just ordered a 5668 and am a little worried about how it'll look from our loveseat, which is about 45 degrees away from directly in front. The demo set at Fry's looked miserable even from in front, so that didn't help much. :rolleyes:

Thanks,

- Ray

Hi, all. Thanks for the excellent reviews.

Can anyone comment on the viewing angle? I just ordered a 5668 and am a little worried about how it'll look from our loveseat, which is about 45 degrees away from directly in front. The demo set at Fry's looked miserable even from in front, so that didn't help much. :rolleyes:

Thanks,

- Ray

From what I have seen of the display models at Best Buy, these TVs seem to be more sensitive to the vertical differential between viewer and TV.

I agree with Steve, this has been discussed with the 720P's and DLP period - it's the vertical viewing angle that requires the sweet spot - side to side it's been reported quite good and only gets better with other PQ improvements in the 1080P and 45 degree's should not be an issue side to side.

I tested this out on the older 6163 which I've always liked in-store with many repeated visits for extended periods and it was quite excellent and I simply waited for the 1080P improvements on 6768 and expect to have a beautiful sweet spot and all my viewing is from a seated position with a stand at the recommended height for the sweet spot. It may not quite match a Plasma Elite viewing angles but at this size you'd be paying 3 times the money or more for equivalent FP. My current Sharp LCD FP and next to perfect viewing angles but it's size at 32" cannot create HT size experience and so it goes to the bedroom but I figure I only watch the DLP from a seated area at the sweet and never exceed more than 45 degree's at the three seating areas (not standing up) and I believe it's spec's are around 150 degree's horizontal and thus the angles are not an issue - I've only seen this be an issue where people were elevating the DLP above or below at a short viewing distance from the sweet spot.

Enjoy! :D

Here's a pix of the full screen of the set. Like I said, the video card and PC seems to be barely keeping up with trying to push out this many pixels. The text has some issues at this resolution. I played one of the WMV clips that is 1080p through media player and it looked pretty good. We need lots more testing and the most current video cards to see what can be done.

AkaStp, yes the info button on the Sammy shows 1920x1080p.

Schaffer, did you try labeling the hdmi input as "PC" to see what effects it had (i.e. overscan, video processing)?

The issues that are listed below are the issues that we currently are still investigating. Please feel free to suggest new open issues.

How about whether HDMI accepts 480i?

I received my 6168 late Friday and thought I would give some quick observations.
• HD over HDMI is incredible
• HD over component is only slightly less incredible
• DVDs look good (Sony DVP-S560D player) but are noticeably lower quality than HD
• SD is better than it was on my 43” Hitachi Ultra Scan HD
• Halo 2 looked very good with little or no lag but I’m not a gamer.
• Slight to no video lag on average but unacceptable at times. When it was unacceptable it may have been induced from changing video sources too quickly. The time required to change video sources is very long (1-3 seconds depending on the source).
•
I have TW cable with an SFA 8300 DVR (1.87.16.1 firmware). The audio if fed directly to my surround sound processor. In my area the 8300 will pass only the HD stations over HDMI. If I use HDMI all the audio outputs will be switched to 2 channel and there are no options to change it back to Dolby Digital without disconnecting HDMI and rebooting the STB. For only a slight improvement in video I will not be using HDMI until TW corrects this in my area.

I had to return my HD950 DVD player a couple weeks ago because the video kept dropping out, when in progressive mode. I decided to go with the Panasonic S77S as a replacement. TVA said they shipped it over a week ago but I haven’t seen it.

My average viewing distance is 16’. At that distance I can see the difference between HDMI and component. SD looks acceptable at this distance.

My overall impression is this is by far the best TV I have ever seen but I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Qualia.

Anyone have a video scaler to test 1080P on the HDMI input? I planned on using the vga input for 1080P from my video scaler but the results of schaffer970 look promising to be able to input 1080P60 into the HDMI from my scaler. My 6168 has shipped and I'm just waiting for the tracking info to show up, it's still showing FEDEX for tracking.

•
I have TW cable with an SFA 8300 DVR (1.87.16.1 firmware). The audio if fed directly to my surround sound processor. In my area the 8300 will pass only the HD stations over HDMI. If I use HDMI all the audio outputs will be switched to 2 channel and there are no options to change it back to Dolby Digital without disconnecting HDMI and rebooting the STB. For only a slight improvement in video I will not be using HDMI until TW corrects this in my area.


I hope that all of us with the Pioneer Passport version of the 8300HD will complain loudly to Time Warner (and in my case, the local agency that regulates TWCNYC) about this HDMI-audio bug -- a HDMI-equiped DVR that will not deliver Dolby through any output if its HDMI output is used. The SARA versions of the DVR do not have this problem, and it's rumored, at least, that Pioneer issued a bug fix quite some time ago.

While waiting for my 6168 (this Tuesday), I went to my local Tweeter to check out the 6178. They had it set up next to a Mitsu DLP, a CRT and a Sony LCD.
They had two feeds: DTV HD and antenna pulling the local PBS station.

Both feeds provided great results. I now understand the "3D" look that everyone is talking about. Very sharp and detailed.
The one thing that did concern me was the amount of motion artifacts (checker board look) on faster moving scenes. Any time there was movement, the area that moved (and in some cases, the entire screen) would break up into a ton of cubes. This occurred more with the antenna feed. The sales person did tell me that the signal had been spliced several times to feed other TVs, so it could have been more source related than TV.

For those that have one of the 1080p's at home, have you noticed a high occurrence of motion artifacts?

Got mine friday. Spent most of yesterday watching and playing. I love it. I have no rainbows at all. The left and right side when watching normal tv are straight, no bending or slant. I had problems with component video only to discover it was my Outlaw 950 that doesn't work so I'm trying to get that fixed.

I have the dvd player sending hdmi into the tv, then optical into the 950. No lipsync problems. I've gone through about 5 discs at various points in the movies. Scientific Atlanta 8300HD box component directly into the tv, optical to the 950. No lipsync on hd or normal tv. Originally I didn't have the 8300 setup correctly to only passthru the native signal so it was upconverting everything. Still didn't see any lipsync, but once I fixed it I believe the tv is doing a better job than the cable box. The quality of the panasonic s97 player upconverting to 1080i is great. I love it. I'm out of town till thursday so I won't be able to test anything more until then but if anyone wants me to test anything with the panasonic s97 and hdmi just drop me a note and I'll try it next week. Have fun all!

Mike: in the DVD player HDMI to the TV and optical to the 950 case, could you tell if 2.0 or 5.1 was sent to the 950?

Thanks for the great report on no lip sync.

The quality of the panasonic s97 player upconverting to 1080i is great. I love it.

Mike, that's great to hear! I have a brand new s97 waiting patiently for its 6768 to arrive so they can play together. Did you notice any macroblocking with your new set?

If you read the HLR power buy forum you saw my delivery nightmare. The TV sat outside all night. We were able to bring it inside at about 4pm (it was 102 F). I am doing a big garage remodel (wifes car has been outside for a week) and so that is where my priorities are right now. We also had to remove and give away our older 40" Tosh CRT RPTV.

At about 9pm, 24 hrs after getting the 5668, we were able to do a quick hookup just to see what we might have. The TV is just sitting on the floor in front of our cabinet which will require major work to get it all set up. This way I can use the existing cables from our old DVD player and the OTA antenna cable.

Overall I would say very impressive. Keep in mind that this is my first HDTV and I have never been happy with what I have seen in the stores. I tried to see the Qualia but could never find one so that is the only set I have not seen. Every other set out there had serious issues of one type or the other to me. Not ready for prime time, especially at my 8 foot viewing distance. So I have been waiting for a true 1080p set since HDTV was a dream.

I have hours of setup to do and I am not an expert in all of these details so it will take some time for me to get everything set optimally. Anyway for now here are my first impressions. First my setup:

HLR5668W HDTV, audio Toslink to AVR
SS HD DVD 950 via HDMI set at 1080i, audio DC to AVR
Sony DVP S7000 DVD player (fixed at 480i via component), audio DC to AVR
OTA antenna feed
PS2 via Component, analog audio to TV and Toslink to AVR

I have an older copy of DVE and will try to use this later to set everything up.

When the set was first turned on the colors and brightness were dismal (first few seconds). I though this was terrible. It takes about 1 minute to get fully up to high level. Then I thought this was way to overdriven. I tried dynamic, standard and movie. I like movie best, even in daylight so I will probably leave it there until after the DVE adjustments.

The colors, contrast, black levels etc are way stronger than my old CRT based set which I ran fairly low on settings but when adjusted up were still strong, even after 10 years. I would say this DLP can rival a CRT RPTV easily in those categories, even in brightly lit rooms.

At first I was pleased but not blown away with the quality. My wife kept yelling at me to put my glasses on. After that it helped considerably :)

It is so hard to make a good evaluation as there are so many variables. In this case content, connections, settings etc. I expect it to take many hours to get everything set right and many features behave differently based on how you have it set up.

Overall I would say this TV is the best I have every seen. Even SD looks as good or better than my old 40" CRT so that is pleasing. Since most of the stations we look at also have a DT equivalent, we will probably just watch those.

The best picture was OTA 1080i HD feed. In this case you could easily see individual hairs and skin blemishes. It looked better than DVD.

On the DVD front I compared the Sony at 480i to the SS at 1080i. The difference was not night and day. This is either a tribute to the 5668 and or the older Sony. In the end the family though the SS 950 was a little better and so it will be kept.

In both cases I was a little less impressed with the picture quality than I expected. Yes it was better than the CRT RPTV, but it was not perfect. Then I noticed that the artifacts that made it less than perfect were in the source. I was seeing film grain and focus details etc that I could not see before. This is probably the reason that the OTA 1080i was better than a DVD. :eek:

Lag issues. There is a slight (may .1 seconds) between this TV and our analog kitchen TV. So if they are on at the same time you can hear a slight echo. This is too bad as often the person in the kitchen wants to watch the same program as the folks in the other room. If you are on the digital channels its more like a second or too, which is obviously a source problem.

On the PS2 front I suspect we also have the .1 second delay but can not tell. We only tried a James Bond game and there we could not detect any delay at all. We also tried the GAME mode and could not detect any lag difference there either. There were some picture quality issues with GAME mode for the game we were playing. It was a 4:3 game and when we went into game mode it seemed to force the player into 16:9 mode, which we could not understand. More work is needed here.

We have not hooked up any of the digital audio connections yet so we cannot test the HDMI passthrough issues yet.

So to summarize:

Best HDTV I have seen to date (the wife and daughter were blown away).

Everything seems to get at least .1 second lag, no additional lag on PS2 for the one game we tried.

1080i HD was better than DVD.

DVD was good enough were source artifacts were the predominant distraction.

Picture overall had excellent color, brightness, contrast etc. MOVIE mode would probably be my standard picture setting.

No rainbows and not SDE.

Lag issues. There is a slight (may .1 seconds) between this TV and our analog kitchen TV.

Wow, I am more impressed with your superhuman powers of being able to notice .1 second delay than the TV's abilities.

has anyone who plays games alot been able to see if there is any lag, surely there is someone out there who knows what the lag feels like, as soon as i pick up a controller on a hdtv i can tell if it has lag or not

Mike: in the DVD player HDMI to the TV and optical to the 950 case, could you tell if 2.0 or 5.1 was sent to the 950?

Since I'm using optical to the 950 its obviously 5.1. I am running optical directly from the dvd player to the 950. I would need to get a longer optical cable to run from the tv to the 950. I have audio turned off over hdmi in the setup of the dvd player.

Mike, that's great to hear! I have a brand new s97 waiting patiently for its 6768 to arrive so they can play together. Did you notice any macroblocking with your new set?

Honestly I can't answer that. I watched the intro of fellowship of the rings, didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I watched intro of saving private ryan and the launch scene of apollo 13 special edition. Apollo 13 looked especially "yummy". I need to get more watching time in with it to tell you if I'm seeing any macroblocking.

The one oddity that I did see, well my girlfriend noticed and I didn't until she pointed it out was slight color banding on hd feeds for dark colors. I'm currently chalking that up to the feed since I didn't see any of that on the dvd's that I sampled. Another thing I haven't done yet is hook up my PS2 or gamecube. But I also don't have component cables for those 2 systems.

Here's a pix of the full screen of the set. Like I said, the video card and PC seems to be barely keeping up with trying to push out this many pixels. The text has some issues at this resolution. I played one of the WMV clips that is 1080p through media player and it looked pretty good. We need lots more testing and the most current video cards to see what can be done.

AkaStp, yes the info button on the Sammy shows 1920x1080p.


schaffer970,

Thanks for confirming that the PC will indeed work over the digital video inputs on the samsung. I was concerned it wouldnt work.

I think that the problem could lie in that the Nvidia 5700LE doenst offer hardware purevideo support. In short this means your NVIDA graphics card doesnt process/assist your mainboard's processor in rendering, thus your mainboards processor is doing all the work. Depending on the speed and configuration of your PC(ie. ram, etc.) this would indeed peg your CPU and introduce issues.

The newer NVIDIA cards 6600GT , 7800GTX make use of the cards processor and purevideo decoding, specifically designed to handle HD and normal content, rather than the mainboards processor, thus resulting in a PC experience that is not limited to how beefy the PC is.

If you are going to use the PC as a HTPC then you may well want to look into the Purevideo features on the newer NVIDIA cards. It definatly makes a huge difference in all sources coming from a PC. The 6600GT is what I am using atm and is highly regarded as the best price/performance card for the HTPC.

If your interested there is a decent review by Home Theater magazine at NVIDIA's website. I would have attached the pdf directly but it's 600k. Couldnt post yet with links either but the information can be at NVIDIA main site.


Regards,

d:

BIG NEWS

Just dragged out the PC and connected it over DVI/HDMI. Cranked the resolution to 1920x1080 and 60Hz and I've got a picture. The attachment is the screen shot of the Display Property box and the Plug & Play monitor box showing 1920x1080 and 60Hz. There are problems with the display that will have to be worked out (overscan, issues with text etc.). The video card and computer are not the newest (my son's hand me downs :D) and I'm not sure where I am at on drivers but I am ecstatic that this even works. I'll get my son to drag his computer into the where the set is and we can work more on what is possible over the next few days. :D :D :D

I'm confused. I didn't think the display would accept 1080p over HDMI?

IF the new HD DVD formats will output 1080p, will the Samsung accept that resolution?

schaffer970,

Thanks for confirming that the PC will indeed work over the digital video inputs on the samsung. I was concerned it wouldnt work.

I think that the problem could lie in that the Nvidia 5700LE doenst offer hardware purevideo support. In short this means your NVIDA graphics card doesnt process/assist your mainboard's processor in rendering, thus your mainboards processor is doing all the work. Depending on the speed and configuration of your PC(ie. ram, etc.) this would indeed peg your CPU and introduce issues.

The newer NVIDIA cards 6600GT , 7800GTX make use of the cards processor and purevideo decoding, specifically designed to handle HD and normal content, rather than the mainboards processor, thus resulting in a PC experience that is not limited to how beefy the PC is.

If you are going to use the PC as a HTPC then you may well want to look into the Purevideo features on the newer NVIDIA cards. It definatly makes a huge difference in all sources coming from a PC. The 6600GT is what I am using atm and is highly regarded as the best price/performance card for the HTPC.

If your interested there is a decent review by Home Theater magazine at NVIDIA's website. I would have attached the pdf directly but it's 600k. Couldnt post yet with links either but the information can be at NVIDIA main site.


Regards,

d:

It is also possible the problem lies with Samsung not using the fastest
speed grade of the Si9021. It may be possible to remove this part
from the board and solder on the fastest speed grade of the Si9021...

I have a PC with the NVIDIA GETFORCE 68000 UTLTRA video card which
I believe is one of the highest end video card shipping today so I will check this
out when I get my 6168 to see I get better results...

I have a PC with the NVIDIA GETFORCE 68000 UTLTRA video card which
I believe is the highest end video card shipping today so I will check this
out when I get my 6168 to see I get better results...
The fastest videocard chip out is nVidia's GeForce 7800 GTX. It has an MSRP of around 600.

The fastest videocard chip out is nVidia's GeForce 7800 GTX card. It has an MSRP of around 600.

You are right - I just edited my post - I hadn't heard about the 7000 series
but the 6800 ultra should still more than capable.

I drive a 1200p lcd display today with it today with no problems ( yes that
is 1920 x 1200 ).

The fastest videocard chip out is nVidia's GeForce 7800 GTX. It has an MSRP of around 600.

Just a quickie reply, don't want to get too far off topic, but you can get the 7800gtx and Battlefield 2 for only $500 here. (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=190416&*******pricewatch&NR=1) I would jump on if I wasn't on AGP(a643700/x850xt).

While waiting for my 6168 (this Tuesday), I went to my local Tweeter to check out the 6178. They had it set up next to a Mitsu DLP, a CRT and a Sony LCD.
They had two feeds: DTV HD and antenna pulling the local PBS station.

Both feeds provided great results. I now understand the "3D" look that everyone is talking about. Very sharp and detailed.
The one thing that did concern me was the amount of motion artifacts (checker board look) on faster moving scenes. Any time there was movement, the area that moved (and in some cases, the entire screen) would break up into a ton of cubes. This occurred more with the antenna feed. The sales person did tell me that the signal had been spliced several times to feed other TVs, so it could have been more source related than TV.

For those that have one of the 1080p's at home, have you noticed a high occurrence of motion artifacts?

I have the 6168; have been so amazed it is hard to pull yourself away. Anyway here are a few observations:

Motion Artifacts - I suspect that must have been your source as I have not seen this. I did have some similar issues with SD quality until I adjusted my DCT 6412 HD DVR STB to output 1080i and 480p for SD, this made a huge difference in SD and was a big relief as I was at first very disappoint with SD. It is now good, though I would rather watch a nature show in HD that a great show in SD.

Brightness: Truly amazing as better than my old Sony 27" Tube. Movie mode is good for night but I like Standard mode for day as I have a good amount of light in my room.

Viewing Angle: Someone earlier asked about a 45 Degree angle. I have a chair that is at the same angle and the PQ is excellent. Currently The TV is on a stand that has is about 1 foot too high viewing at 8.5' sorry didn't calc the angle but is outstanding PQ still.

Color: Right out of the box the color was outstanding. Very bright and true, I am not an expert but everyone who has come to my house to see it says how the colors are amazing

DVDs: Have connected to a SS 950 up shifting DVD via the included HDMI cable, picture at 1080i is excellent, near HD but not quite as good as HD 1080i content. Monsters Inc. is exceptional. I haven't seen any Macro blocking at all.

Sync: The only area I see an issue here is DVDs if I keep sound on the TV and the AVR there is an echo. I then Turn the volume to off on the TV and seems OK. I will need to do more testing on this as the two movies I have watched this way weren't good to see if the audio is now out of line with the lip movements. (Monsters and Star Wars EP I) My connection is HDMI DVD to TV, and Toslink DVD to AVR.

Rainbows: Haven't seen any nor has anyone who has seen it at my house.

SD: On some content I did see some stair step effect on angled items (i.e. pen being held at a 45 Degree angle or someone’s shoulder. This seems to be on channels that are perhaps analog or of lower quality. If I watch CBS in SD I don't see this at all. Especially once I changed the output mode of the STB to the 1080i / 480p.

Overall: The best TV I have ever seen, bar none. I have not seen the Sony Qualia Though. Friends that have come over are in shock at the quality and are asking about the power buy. Highly recommend it.

Sync: The only area I see an issue here is DVDs if I keep sound on the TV and the AVR there is an echo. I then Turn the volume to off on the TV and seems OK. I will need to do more testing on this as the two movies I have watched this way weren't good to see if the audio is now out of line with the lip movements. (Monsters and Star Wars EP I) My connection is HDMI DVD to TV, and Toslink DVD to AVR.


Since you are running digital audio from DVD to AVR via Toslink, you should definitely 'mute' the TV's internal audio.

DEALER92 - Thanks for taking the time for a qualilty Review/Feedback - Much Appreciated!

Just a side note regarding some Lag reported in an earlier review.

If you are viewing an HD broadcast in one room on an HDTV and you have another TV receiving SD or digital that is not HD - Lag (or echo) between the sets is common as the broadcasts are different so it should be understood that an adjoining room TV without HD may not be sequenced - that's not truly lag though it's a broadcast delay. I can notice this when I may walk from my Den with my HDTV and walk two rooms away and if the Kitchen LCD has the same channel that isn't tuned in as it has no STB on the kitchen counter their is a broadcast delay as in fact they are two separate broadcasts transmissions. This should have no impact on the HDTV at all but could give the impression of lag but I would not think two separate systems receive two separate broadcasts mediums would not count as lag in this scenario. Very Good reviews though and grateful to hear the terrific feedback so far. Thank you!

I'm confused. I didn't think the display would accept 1080p over HDMI?

IF the new HD DVD formats will output 1080p, will the Samsung accept that resolution?

I would like to know more about this to. If the TV is able to accept a 1920x1080 signal at 60 HZ from a PC over the HDMI connection, why couldn't it accept a 1080p same signal from a PS3 or a BluRay player? The fact that this didn't accept a 1080p signal over HDMI was causing many people to question this TV. I know it is too early to know for sure, but doesn't this indicate the TV can accept 1080p over HDMI?

I would like to know more about this to. If the TV is able to accept a 1920x1080 signal at 60 HZ from a PC over the HDMI connection, why couldn't it accept a 1080p same signal from a PS3 or a BluRay player? The fact that this didn't accept a 1080p signal over HDMI was causing many people to question this TV. I know it is too early to know for sure, but doesn't this indicate the TV can accept 1080p over HDMI?

I just joined the forum, and am ready to jump in on a 56 or 61 1080p sammy. The early tests of 1080p@60 over HDMI by schaffer970 is very encouraging. I've read through thread after thread on this forum and can't figure out who originally confirmed that the new 1080p sets from Samsung are in fact using the older SiI9021 HDMI receiver chip. From looking at the block diagram submitted to the FCC, you can't distinguish whether or not it is the SiI9021ctu or the SiI9021ctu-7 actually used in the sets. (The -7 chip is about $15 in quantities of 60) This is key here as the -7 chip is HDMI 1.1 compliant (I just confirmed this with an email to the HDMI test team at SI.) Specifically, it can handle the optional video format timing of 1920x1080p @ 59.94/60Hz as specified in section 6.3.2 of the HDMI 1.1 specification document released May 20, 2004.

I think someone 'may' have jumped the gun here.. If you look carefully at the SiI9021 marketing literature, it states on the website header that it is HDMI 1.1 compliant, yet if you read on below, it says it is 'fully HDMI 1.0 compliant'. I just think they forgot to update the paragraph on the datasheet, leading people to assume that it was only HDMI 1.0 and thus using the older chip....

So, the question is... Is Samsung really using the -7 chip? If they are, is there something else internally (perhaps with the X226 decoder) that prevents it from doing 1080p60 over HDMI? I am beginning to think that Samsung really did use the -7 chip (not sure why they wouldn't, it seems like it has been around for some time and in doing so, they would not violate their FCC block diagram submission as only the generic SiI9021 chipset is listed)...

Looking forward to getting confirmation that it is supported, but I'm jumping in anyway tomorrow to order one, the CR alone is worth it to me.. Anyone want to crack open their case and see if there is a -7 label on the SiI9021 chip? :)

A couple more people need to reproduce the 1080p/60hz over DVI->HDMI cable before we can know for certain. Some video cards are capable of asking the display what it is capable of accepting and then they scale the requested desktop resolution to match the closest available resolution from the display.

So it is possible that the video card is actually sending out 720p/60hz or 1080i/60hz behind schaffer970's back.

If TVA ever gets me my HD950 I will ignore the DVD player and get my PC and Powerbook in the living room and compare both on both VGA and DVI and report what I find. Where is my HD950?

A couple more people need to reproduce the 1080p/60hz over DVI->HDMI cable before we can know for certain. Some video cards are capable of asking the display what it is capable of accepting and then they scale the requested desktop resolution to match the closest available resolution from the display.

So it is possible that the video card is actually sending out 720p/60hz or 1080i/60hz behind schaffer970's back.

I will be glad to test this later this evening. I noticed there was two cables included in my Samsung 950 DVD player box, 1 HDMI 2 HDMI, the other is DVI->HDMI, which I can use on my PC NVIDIA G Force4 Ti 4400 (not too bad, but not a $500 latest card either). It has a DVI output and I will D/L some driver updates and give it a shot later. This way we can try to confirm this from a number of sources and HW to see if this is in fact true. How exciting would that be? I have to do a few things around the house first and we have company but I will try later. :)

Haven't had time to check this thread for a while so I do not know if this has come up but...

The good news. Came home Friday afternoon to find my new stand had been delivered and left in the driveway as it was arranged. Went into the garage to get a knife to open the stand box and there was my 6168! Bad news is that the delivery company never called to set anything up. Just showed up, opened the garage & left it there. But can't really complain.

Spent the next few hours setting up the stand, putting all the equipment together , etc. & finally late at night turned the tv on. I currently have a very old satellite box (Sony SAT-HD100) and also a pretty old progressive scan palyer (Panasonic RP91) which I am planning to upgrade but thought I would wait for the tv first. So I'm running component on both and plugged the satellite into Component 1 on the tv & the DVD into componenet 2. Go to the source menu and only Component 2 is available along with only 2 other sources. All the rest cannont be selected. DVD works ok but no satellite. Switched the inputs and satellite works, no DVD. huh?

It was late. I went to bed. Saturday morning I tired again and same thing happens. But now after watching the satellite for a while I go to the source menu & no component input is available, the satellite goes away & nothing. I called Samsung and I have to say that getting to someone was very quick & easy that's the good part. Here is what I was told.

First the tv will not allow you to select any source for which it does not see a signal. This is not good from my point of view. For one thing it means that if you are using a universal remote that is using macros you have to be sure that the source device is on before it changes the source input on the tv.

Second, Component 1 will not accept a HD signal, only component 2 will, which is why I could not get a satellite signal from component 1 (doesn't quite make sense since the the satellite box puts out 480i on non HD material & that was not working either). Why I did get the satellite signal for a while through component 2 and then it stopped is a mystery for which the Samsung rep could only opine that it was a very old box and probably not compatible. Not really the answer you want to hear.

This was yesterday morning & I have not had a chance to play with anythng since then. I am going to tackle it as soon as I post this, but I wanted to get it out there first. I am going to be getting an OPPO DVD later this week and am also changing to Comcast cable & they will be out next Saturday, so as of next weekend everything should be coming into the HDMI ports and hopefully this will all be moot.

By the way, Comcast in my area uses the Motorola DCT6400 DVR/tuner. Anyone have any feedback on this unit?

tunasf, I have the 6168 and it accepts HD over 'component 1'.

First the tv will not allow you to select any source for which it does not see a signal.
Our HLP allows any "connected" source to be selected. The input device doesn't need to be on. I think the HLM and HLN sets did too. I'm using two S-Video, one HDMI, one DVI and one component connections.

It will be very surprising if Samsung has changed this characteristic of their DLP sets.

For those xx68 owners planning to connect cable directly, bypassing a STB, you may not get any HD channels at all. I have TWC and all the HD channels in my area are 802 and above. The only HD channel the TV tuner can pick up is TNTHD (807). Channels 802 - 806 are available at no extra cost with a STB but they are not available without a STB. I tried to enter them manually with no success.

tunasf, I have the 6168 and it accepts HD over 'component 1'.
Is it possible this set is just defective & the Samsung rep has no idea what he is talking about?

Also what about not being able to select a source if there is not signal from that sourse. Is any one else seeing this?

Our HLP allows any "connected" source to be selected. The input device doesn't need to be on. I think the HLM and HLN sets did too. I'm using two S-Video, one HDMI, one DVI and one component connections.

It will be very surprising if Samsung has changed this characteristic of their DLP sets.

This is the way the 68s work also.

edit: A problem with this is if you have several components connected to the TV it takes more time to cycle through the inputs (~3sec per input).

On the previous page I had asked schaffer970 what the TV claimed it was receiving by pressing the Display/Info button on the remote. He said it pops up a panel stating 1920x1080p which would seem to suggest that the TV is indeed getting 1080p.

Yes, that is very interesting to say the least.

Ok, I just pulled everything out & reconnected it all & it is all working fine. Either I am an idiot or the tv just wanted to play with me a bit. In my almost 7 decades of experience with technology I am certain that either is possilbe. This all does serve as a warning however. Always take the Samsung tech's info with a large grain of salt.

On the previous page I had asked schaffer970 what the TV claimed it was receiving by pressing the Display/Info button on the remote. He said it pops up a panel stating 1920x1080p which would seem to suggest that the TV is indeed getting 1080p.

Yeah, but I was under the impression that these sets upconvert all inputs to 1080p...so I would think that it would always give a display message of 1080p. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's receiving a 1080p signal, correct?

Yeah, but I was under the impression that these sets upconvert all inputs to 1080p...so I would think that it would always give a display message of 1080p. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's receiving a 1080p signal, correct?

No. The message is what is on the input.

No. The message is what is on the input.

Then it is BIG NEWS indeed!
:)

On the previous page I had asked schaffer970 what the TV claimed it was receiving by pressing the Display/Info button on the remote. He said it pops up a panel stating 1920x1080p which would seem to suggest that the TV is indeed getting 1080p.

If this can be reconfirmed by a couple of people ... then it is great news. This can propel some of us fence sitters to take a serious look at the new Samsungs.

It is also possible the problem lies with Samsung not using the fastest
speed grade of the Si9021. It may be possible to remove this part
from the board and solder on the fastest speed grade of the Si9021...

I have a PC with the NVIDIA GETFORCE 68000 UTLTRA video card which
I believe is one of the highest end video card shipping today so I will check this
out when I get my 6168 to see I get better results...


Unfortunatley you may well encounter the same issues as the 6800 Ultra was not fully purevide enabled. It has been a very controverisal issue with everyone that owns the cards as they were marketed as being "fully" purevideo enabled. The only 6800 card that is hardware decode/encode purevideo enabled is the 6800 base model. However, since this card excels at all other areas and your PC is as up to date as this card then you will most likely have a good pc experience. Please post your thoughts once you have it up and running.

d:

If this can be reconfirmed by a couple of people ... then it is great news. This can propel some of us fence sitters to take a serious look at the new Samsungs.

this is impossible seeings how currrently there is no way of recieving a 1080p othere than from your PC.

Unfortunatley you may well encounter the same issues as the 6800 Ultra was not fully purevide enabled. It has been a very controverisal issue with everyone that owns the cards as they were marketed as being "fully" purevideo enabled. The only 6800 card that is hardware decode/encode purevideo enabled is the 6800 base model. However, since this card excels at all other areas and your PC is as up to date as this card then you will most likely have a good pc experience. Please post your thoughts once you have it up and running.

d:

I am driiving a 1200p LCD today ( 1920 x 1080 ) without any issues of any kind
so I don't see why driving a 1080x1980 display will prove more difficult.

I have a 3.2 GHz w/HT Intel Processor, 2 Gigabyte of dual channel 400 Mbs
DDR memory, a SATA RAID harddrive configuration with 10,000rpm hard drives...

But at the end of the day I don't see myself using the Samsung as a Computer display
but would like to receive input from SonyPlaystation3 which looks like that is
now a possibility!

this is impossible seeings how currrently there is no way of recieving a 1080p othere than from your PC.
What is impossible?

A lot of people use their computers to interlace and scale their DVD input to the native resolution of their display devices. With ATI's latest drivers, my computer should do an outstanding job feeding 480i DVD content at 1080p to a 1080p display.

Fwiw, despite what shaffer may be on to regarding getting the Sammy 1080p sets to take a 1080p input over HDMI, our resident negativist and general doomsayer (Gazelle) is already proclaiming this to wrong and not possible in other threads!

Oh well that is Gazelle - I don't believe anyone takes him serious anyway.

BUT I just thought of something else. All semiconductors are subject to
process variations and the HDMI chip has been speed bined so that the die
that meets the 1080p requirement gets the -7 speed grade which will
operate under worst case conditions at that performance level.

That doesn't mean the slower speed grade will not operate under ideal conditions
at 1080p60fps but that simply the semi vndor does not guarantee such.
Also some of the slower speed grade devices may operate close to -7 speed
grade and some may not depending on where they fall in the bucket of the
slower speed grade.

So untill someone opens up the case and verifies if the HMDI chip is the -7
speed grade we likely to get mixed reports and not have anything conclusive
regarding the production Samsung sets.

But what we do now know for sure, in my opinion, is that if the HDMI chip is
not the -7 we can remove the slower speed grade HDMI chip and solder on
the -7 version of it we will have 1080p60fps over HDMI.

Oh well that is Gazelle - I don't believe anyone takes him serious anyway.


But what we do now know for sure, in my opinion, is that if the HDMI chip is
not the -7 we can remove the slower speed grade HDMI chip and solder on
the -7 version of it we will have 1080p60fps over HDMI.

Sure you can. And switch out all the supporting electronics as well. Like that could even have a remote chance of working. Please pass around whatever your smoking:)

Oh well that is Gazelle - I don't believe anyone takes him serious anyway.


But what we do now know for sure, in my opinion, is that if the HDMI chip is
not the -7 we can remove the slower speed grade HDMI chip and solder on
the -7 version of it we will have 1080p60fps over HDMI.

Sure you can. And switch out all the supporting electronics as well. Like that could even have a remote chance of working. Please pass around whatever you're esmoking:)

Oh well that is Gazelle - I don't believe anyone takes him serious anyway.


But what we do now know for sure, in my opinion, is that if the HDMI chip is
not the -7 we can remove the slower speed grade HDMI chip and solder on
the -7 version of it we will have 1080p60fps over HDMI.

Sure you can. And switch out all the supporting electronics as well. Like that could even have a remote chance of working. Certainly no one takes you very seriously with such nonsensical gibberish. Please pass around whatever you're smoking:)

Gazelle,
Are you a senior member because you have more senior moments than most of us or are you just naturally grumpy?

Sure you can. And switch out all the supporting electronics as well. Like that could even have a remote chance of working. Please pass around whatever your smoking:)

Its some really good sh!t, you ought to try some :-)

A newbie question. Why is it so important that the TV can receive 1080p if it does not just pass this thru? I think I read that in one of the previous posts (here or over at the 2005 HLR thread) that the TV will downscale the 1080p to 1080i, and then upscale it again to 1080p??? I think the post was related to VGA though.

A newbie question. Why is it so important that the TV can receive 1080p if it does not just pass this thru? I think I read that in one of the previous posts (here or over at the 2005 HLR thread) that the TV will downscale the 1080p to 1080i, and then upscale it again to 1080p??? I think the post was related to VGA though.

I know of no evidence that it will downscale 1080p to 1080i and then upscale
it again. Having an HMDI input that does 1080p60fps means that SonyPlaystation3 will
operate at maximum resolution on the Samsung.

Also for those who keep TVs for many years this should be an important
consideration since there will eventually be more content at 1080p60fps.

Sounds like some promising movement on the hdmi 1.1 front. Who's going to look for the -7 chip?

Adelphia installed an 8300 box on Friday and I made and painted a stand for the 6768 this weekend. I also learned that Verison is wiring my neighborhood with fiber - looks like 15Mbps internet is pretty close for me (wiring is already up on my street). Then, another option for tv via the phone fiber. You gotta love competion.

Has anyone played XBOX with component video? Is there "lag"? How does It look compared to the 720P Samsung DLP's. Thanks

I connected my Xbox to my Sammy. It slowly undressed me, took me in its arms, and gave me the best . . .

nice...but Id like some technical comments please.

Still wondering if someone could run a quick test to see if 5.1 transmited on a HDMI cable input comes out 2.0 or 5.1 on the TV's optical output.

Pretty Please!!!!

this is impossible seeings how currrently there is no way of recieving a 1080p othere than from your PC.

It was known very early on that the TV would accept 1080p from a PC over the VGA port, but what Schaeffer et al. have apparently discovered is that the TV can also accept 1080p from a PC over the HDMI port.

Question for all of you who have actually received your set: Could you please post a list of items of what actually came with your set? I'm interested to know what cables I will need to buy...

Oh well that is Gazelle - I don't believe anyone takes him serious anyway.

BUT I just thought of something else. All semiconductors are subject to
process variations and the HDMI chip has been speed bined so that the die
that meets the 1080p requirement gets the -7 speed grade which will
operate under worst case conditions at that performance level.

That doesn't mean the slower speed grade will not operate under ideal conditions
at 1080p60fps but that simply the semi vndor does not guarantee such.
Also some of the slower speed grade devices may operate close to -7 speed
grade and some may not depending on where they fall in the bucket of the
slower speed grade.

So untill someone opens up the case and verifies if the HMDI chip is the -7
speed grade we likely to get mixed reports and not have anything conclusive
regarding the production Samsung sets.

But what we do now know for sure, in my opinion, is that if the HDMI chip is
not the -7 we can remove the slower speed grade HDMI chip and solder on
the -7 version of it we will have 1080p60fps over HDMI.

No, you don't know that for sure. You don't know that the limiting factor in displaying 1080P is the 9021 or the graphics card.

It could very well (and probably more likely to be) that the rest of the TV circuitry is not designed to handle/display a 1080P signal properly. For all you know, some of the problems schaffer970 reported as seeing are due to the rest of the TV circuitry mis-processing the 1080P image since it was not spec'ed (and probably not designed) to handle it. For example, the circuitry might process the 1080P signal like it is a 1080i signal, this would produce an image but it would be messed up in the highly detailed areas.

It is possible that the only circuit Samsung cheapened out on was the 9021 speed sort, but I would doubt it. Most likely they need to improve more than just the 9021. It may not just be an issue of speed, but how they are processing the data.

For all your criticism of Gazelle, I see you going off half-cocked posting in several threads, with pointers to this thread as proof that the Samsung set can handle a 1080P input. I'm not saying that it can or can't, but I have not seen anything here that demonstrates that it can, in spite of Samsung's own spec's that say it can't.

For all your criticism of Gazelle, I see you going off half-cocked posting in several threads, with pointers to this thread as proof that the Samsung set can handle a 1080P input. I'm not saying that it can or can't, but I have not seen anything here that demonstrates that it can, in spite of Samsung's own spec's that say it can't.

Which specs are you talking about?

The only specs I've seen are the ones available on Samsung's website in their DLP TV section. For all of the HLRxxx8 models, the only high-def capable video connection that mentions a format restriction is the Component Video input (restricted to 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i).

Would be curious to see any Samsung material that mentions a format restriction on the HDMI inputs.

Which specs are you talking about?

The only specs I've seen are the ones available on Samsung's website in their DLP TV section. For all of the HLRxxx8 models, the only high-def capable video connection that mentions a format restriction is the Component Video input (restricted to 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i).

Would be curious to see any Samsung material that mentions a format restriction on the HDMI inputs.

Check the "specs" link for xx78 on the first page of this thread. It's pretty clear what HDMI accepts (hint: it is not 1080p). Also look in the User Manual (p114, or p141 in xx68), it also implies 1080p can only be received via PC...
---

,,,,Can someone please test the Digital Out using an HDMI source????Should take no longer than 5 minutes and would answer one of the main questions asked within this forum...thx

What would count as definitive proof that the TV can display a 1080p signal coming over HDMI, since "Well, the TV says that it's a 1080p signal" doesn't seem to count? Is there no way of knowing for sure apart from using a high-speed camera with the ability to take 120 pictures per second? Are those who take one side of the other always going to have the benefit of plausible deniability?

Tune in next week for the next episode... same bat time, same bat channel.

No, you don't know that for sure. You don't know that the limiting factor in displaying 1080P is the 9021 or the graphics card.

It could very well (and probably more likely to be) that the rest of the TV circuitry is not designed to handle/display a 1080P signal properly. For all you know, some of the problems schaffer970 reported as seeing are due to the rest of the TV circuitry mis-processing the 1080P image since it was not spec'ed (and probably not designed) to handle it. For example, the circuitry might process the 1080P signal like it is a 1080i signal, this would produce an image but it would be messed up in the highly detailed areas.

It is possible that the only circuit Samsung cheapened out on was the 9021 speed sort, but I would doubt it. Most likely they need to improve more than just the 9021. It may not just be an issue of speed, but how they are processing the data.

For all your criticism of Gazelle, I see you going off half-cocked posting in several threads, with pointers to this thread as proof that the Samsung set can handle a 1080P input. I'm not saying that it can or can't, but I have not seen anything here that demonstrates that it can, in spite of Samsung's own spec's that say it can't.

Ddisplay,

One other point is that his display is reporting 1080p and the display reports
1080i when receiving 1080i, etc. This is a good indication ( but not an absolute
confirmation ) that it just might possibly be processing 1080p - ya think?

Best regards,

Tony "half-cocked" DeLuce

P.S. 1080p should be the easist format for the set to deal with since it does not
have to de-interlace or convert the image - it simply has to map the pixels to the DMD.

While it may be appropriate for tony to be prematurely stating that it does, then by the same token surely it is inappropriate for gazelle to be stating that it absolutely does not. Neither knows for sure at this point in time. Lets stay optimistic. :)

I concur that I am not absolutely sure but I believe there are strong indications
that it is possible...

Hey folks, lets calm down. I've been trying to get things to work and they do - but not overly well on the 1920x1080 DVI/HDMI front. AkaStp - I apologize, what the set says is 1920x1080i 60Hz. I don't know what to make of that. I have tried to use 30Hz and that works but not really better than 60Hz. My son brought up his computer with a Nvidia 6600GT and things looked about the same as on my older/slower computer. We tried various settings but nothing seemed to jump out as the obvious solution. These computers are set up with WinXP - not media edition. There might be some additional features there. Clearly we are getting 1920x1080 over DVI/HDMI but there are issues that need to be resolved. The manual gives some timings for the VGA port - I don't know if these will also apply to the HDMI port.

I would agree that if someone has a scaler that puts out 1920x1080P that would be a great test to see what happens. We've only had the sets in our hands a few days it will take some time to get everything worked out. :D

this is impossible seeings how currrently there is no way of recieving a 1080p othere than from your PC.

Well, if a couple of others can confirm using a PC that would be good too. Snazio DVD player which can output 1080p would be another good way to do that ... and I guess there may be a scaler or two that can do it as well ... or a MAC !!

Hey folks, lets calm down. I've been trying to get things to work and they do - but not overly well on the 1920x1080 DVI/HDMI front. AkaStp - I apologize, what the set says is 1920x1080i 60Hz. I don't know what to make of that. I have tried to use 30Hz and that works but not really better than 60Hz. My son brought up his computer with a Nvidia 6600GT and things looked about the same as on my older/slower computer. We tried various settings but nothing seemed to jump out as the obvious solution. These computers are set up with WinXP - not media edition. There might be some additional features there. Clearly we are getting 1920x1080 over DVI/HDMI but there are issues that need to be resolved. The manual gives some timings for the VGA port - I don't know if these will also apply to the HDMI port.

I would agree that if someone has a scaler that puts out 1920x1080P that would be a great test to see what happens. We've only had the sets in our hands a few days it will take some time to get everything worked out. :D

With the display reporting 1920x1080i, the set could be forcing the
PC to output 1080i60fps but I don't know enough about the video cards
you are using to know "for sure" :-)

This seems less likely of a possibility now that I have the above information,
but I am not completely ruling it out. I agree that a 1080x1920p scaler would be
a great test.

I have done some testing with my PC and the DVI->HDMI cable that came with my Samsung 950 DVD. I have a NVidia G4 4400 with 128MB (I know it is a couple years old.) I D/L the latest Driver which came out in June of '05. Anyway at first I could only find the basic settings and when I put the Resolution at 1920 x 1080 the display way OK but text wasn't super readable. Many lines through it like it was interlaced. I then was able to try 1920 X 1080 at 60 HZ Progressive and the PC came up with a message Unsupport Mode. I then Tried it with 1920 x 1080 Interlaced and it worked though again text very hard to read. Anyway there were quite a few variables here in the settings and timing and modes I would say it would take about 3 hours to try all the settings and I have to work tomorrow. I wish I had a new video card to test this better.

In any event I couldn't get it to work in the Progressive mode. Could be due to older video card. Will do more testing with this tomorrow.

I got my 6168 today and also tried 1920x1080p via HDMI/DVI on my Linux PC with nVidia 6600 card. I seem to be getting the same result as schaffer970 and dealer92 -- TV reports 1920x1080 interlaced and text looks blurry. Unfortunately, nVidia's Linux driver seems broken and I can't play video.

VGA 1920x1080@60Hz works fine although with a little too much underscan especially on the left/right. Anyone with a good modeline they can share?

So basically, we need some hardcore HTPC/gamer to hook this DLP up to his "modern" ATI video card x800/x850 and see if it can work well with 1080p via DVI. All the reports so far have been with outdated videocards.

Then we need a hardcore xbox/ps2 gamer to sit down and play some FPS and tell us if there is any noticable lag.

If I can get answers to those 2 questions, I'm going to give Fry's my money for this set.

Well, I've had my 5668 since last Wednesday and have had some time to test it. While I will say it's the best TV I've owned, it's crippled!

My test system consists of the 5668, an iScan HD+, Denon DVD-2910 connected through SDI, DirecTivo, and a Mac Mini. There's some other equipment, but it's irrelevant for this test. I connected the iScan via VGA as well as HDMI. Mac Mini was connected directly via VGA as well as HDMI.

The TV will NOT accept a 1080p signal on the HDMI input. We can put that to rest, it doesn't work. I connected both the iScan and Mac Mini and the TV just reports "Mode not supported." On the iScan I used both 50 and 60Hz and neither worked.

On the VGA input, the Mac Mini works at 1080p with the only problem being the image is underscanned, and therefore doesn't take up the entire screen. I didn't find a way to adjust that, if there is a way to do it, please let me know.

I connected the iScan via VGA and when you select the 1080p/60 or 1080p/50 outputs, the TV displays "Mode not supported." This is on the VGA input. Now the Mac Mini says it's at 59Hz, but I haven't figured out how to switch the Hz on the 1080p output of the iScan yet. Assuming I can figure out how to fix the underscan on the VGA input, this might be a workable solution. I have to call DVDO to find out how to create a custom resolution output. So for I have been unsuccessful in outputting 1080p to the VGA input via the iScan.

The way I have the iScan connected now is through HDMI at 1080i/60. I will say that watching a DVD on the TV through the iScan is almost HD! It is truly amazing. However, the TV's internal deinterlacer is plain crap! I'm not sure it does anything. The jaggies are really, really, really bad! This is especially noticeable on SD content. Now I have not connected the DirecTivo to the TV directly, but I will try that and see how it looks. I can't imagine the iScan is causing the problem though.

Anyway, those are my observations so far. Overall I'm happy with the TV, but I'm also disappointed at the same time. When someone releases a true 1080p TV, I just might have to switch.

Best Regards,
Adam

I'm sure that the Samsung 1080P sets next year will accept 1080P over the HDMI. I wouldn't be surprised if they update the current model sometime during the production year. We can only hope that if they do update the current model that they will offer current owners some type of upgrade path so we can have 1080P over the HDMI.
My set shows a delivery of this Friday. I need to hurry up and remove all my old cables and redo my entire setup so I can be ready for the delivery. One good thing for me with the 1080P input, since it doesn't accept it, there is no reason for me to upgrade my iscanHD to the HD+. It sounds like it will have an excellent picture from my SDI RP82 DVD player going by Enversions observations.

Since the only 1080p video available and likely to be available in the foreseeable future is 24 frames per second, what use is 1080p 60fps if you don’t play games.
1080p 24fps support is VERY important, as playing 24fps video at 60fps SUCKS due to 3:2 pull down judder.
1080p 24fps is required, but 1080p 60fps you can keep.

Remember that BluRay will only support 1080p 24fps.

Since the only 1080p video available and likely to be available in the foreseeable future is 24 frames per second, what use is 1080p 60fps if you don’t play games.

Well I for one will be playing my HD-DVDs/Blu Ray through an HTPC as they will release internal blu ray drives/HD-DVDs for PCs eventually. At that point, it would be nice to have the ability to hook up the set through DVI at 1920x1080 at 60hz (which we don't even truly know if that is the case yet). So the "use" 1080p at 60hz is simply PC compatability which is essential for internal bluray/hd-dvd players...and that will be the best way to achieve the best image quality.....just as its the best way to achieve optimal DVD image quality right now.

It should also be noted that other current 1080p sets also can't use 1080p sources through HDMI. I have the westy 37 inch 1080p LCD set and cannot do 1080p through the HDMI.

I'm a bit tired so excuse any typo's.

I originally pre-ordered a 6178 through VANNS. On 07/15 I cancelled with Vanns because they sent me an EMail stating they would not receive the tv until mid August and I would not receive it from them until end of August. So I cancelled with Vanns and pre-ordered with TVA using the powerbuy. I was told I was about 181 on the list (ouch). I have vacation starting on 07/28 and I wanted the TV by then.

Yesterday 07/24 I went to FRY's in Downer's Grove IL to pickup a new motherboard for my son's computer. They had the 6168 on display being sold for MSRP. They had a 6167 next to it. They had Space Jam being fed to the TV's via component. I could not find any other sources connected to the TV. The picture on the 6168 was noticeably better than the 6167 (color and detail).

A sales rep stopped by and stated they had three 6168's in stock. He asked if I was interested. I said yes, but not for that price. He asked me what price I would pay. I explained I had the TV on preorder through the internet and gave the TVA price. He asked If I would split the difference. I told him my TV should arrive in a few weeks. The price he was offering plus tax was worth the wait. He stated he would see what his manager could do. He came back a few minutes later and gave me a price within $$$ of the powerbuy. With tax and FRY's 5 year warranty I came out within $$$ of the powerbuy so I bought it. My wife was ticked but at least I will have it for vacation.

Loading it into the my Dodge Grand Caravan. We had to remove the top of the box. With the bottom still intact we were just able to slide it through the side door (Stow and GO is great). I drove it home.

I took my 32" tv off my stand I had setup for the new TV and brought it back to my bedroom ( I had a Mits 55807 which I sold a month ago, not knowing these TV's would be delayed). I disconnected the s-video cables from my receiver. I hooked up my Samsung HD850 via HDMI. I hooked up my Samsung Sir TS-160 (Directv HD) via DVI to HDMI cable. Almost forgot to connect the analog audio cable since DVI does not pass audio. Connected my XBox via component using the HDpack. My TV came with a manual for the 78 series instead of the 68. I noticed on page 108 (game mode page) the was a sticker making a correction for resetting anynet after using game mode. I wonder if they used the 78 manual in my box since it had been updated with the sticker?

Discovery HD had a Science of StarWars show on. Most of the footage was obviously video upconverted for the show. The parts where Anthony Daniels was speaking to R2D2 and C3PO were filmed in HD and blew my old 55807 out of the water ( I never had a professional calibration, used DVE myself on the 55807). It had 3D look that I haven't remembered seeing since I first bought the 55807.

To please my wife we watched Miss Congeniality 2. The movie looked good but sucked like Ishtar. My wife and I noticed the lips were lagging behind the audio coming out of my Yamaha HTR-5760. My wife thought the movie was so bad she started skipping chapters and we finished the movie in 20 minutes. She went to bed and I started playing with the tv.

I turned everything off and then back on to see if I could get rid of the lip synch issue. No luck the TV still lagged behind the audio on both Directv and dvd. I had the HD850 outputting at 480P, 720P and 1080i none of them made a difference the tv still lagged. Most noticeable when having audio come from the tv and my Yamaha receiver. There was an echo. I used the audio delay on my Yamaha setting it in increments of ten. At 120ms the delay / echo was gone and lip sych was no longer a problem. I tried several disks including StarWars EpII. Every disc was off sych unless I put the delay on using my Yamaha.

Xbox time. I'm guessing it is also lagging since the HD850 lagged at 480P and its other settings. Playing StarWars Battlefront I did not notice a problem. Playing Forza I noticed I was over steering. After about five laps I was able to compensate with out noticing. Note I did have the input set to Game on the 6168 which I dont believe makes a difference since the Xbox is outputting at 480p.

The Samasung HD850 kept giving me a warning on screen stating the display device does not support HDMI audio. When I changed the HD850 digital output in the menus to PCM it was able to send audio to the TV which is when I would hear the echo. But it would also only send 2ch audio to the Yamaha. So I set it back to bitstream. I can disable the warning message on the HD850. However when I turn it on and off the message gets enabled again. Kind of annoying but it only last a few seconds. It does not appear that the 6168 will accept a 5.1 signal through the HDMI. Note the only thing I have that is HDMI to HDMI is the HD850.

The HD850 did not appear to be passing blacker than black using HDMI. I tried using both expand and normal for HDMI in the HD850 menus. Neither made a difference. I know it was passing BTB via S-video to my 32".

In conclusion the tv has the best picture I have scene. I may not be keeping the HD850 since it does not appear to pass BTB. I have to test it with component and see if it will pass BTB, maybe the 6168 doesn't have the contrast for it. I tried it in dynamic mode and movie mode and it did not make a difference. Blacks in DVD's did not appear to have the same detail as before. Note I used to keep my contrast on my55807 higher then DVE and AVIA recommend. The blacks might look good to most people.

I am not a serious gamer, so I don't think I will have any problems with the Xbox since I was able to compensate in Forza. A serious gamer may want to try a different TV. If you are going to use the 6168 for HD and dvd's it should work great for you if your audio receiver has a delay. The picture is worth the slight delay.

Hopefully I did not break any forum rules above. If I did let me know and I will edit the post. I'm used to lurking not posting. I edited out the price difference.

moss: thanks for the GREAT post!

Were you able to note what sort of audio (2.0 or 5.1) was being transmitted out the optical output to your receiver from the TV when the input to the TV was through a HDMI cable?

Sure would like an answer to this.

I just tested the 6168 with the Hd850 using component the cables from my XBOX. It appears the TV does not accept BTB or has limited BTB. Since black level for both on DVE was the same. I didn't expect the same black level as my old Mits 55807. HDMI appeared to look better on the HD850.

What would count as definitive proof that the TV can display a 1080p signal coming over HDMI, since "Well, the TV says that it's a 1080p signal" doesn't seem to count? Is there no way of knowing for sure apart from using a high-speed camera with the ability to take 120 pictures per second? Are those who take one side of the other always going to have the benefit of plausible deniability?

Tune in next week for the next episode... same bat time, same bat channel.

Since the manufacturer's spec was not saying that it would work, the burden of proof should be on those claiming that it does.

As others have said, get a few people to confirm they got is working with a source that they know is 1080P with NO "issues" such as funny text, before proclaiming all over the forums that it does work.

My skepticism was based on the both the Samsung spec/claim and the fact that schaffer970 said that there will still "issues" with the image. In a later post schaffer970 has now corrected himself saying that the TV was reporting 1080i and not 1080P.

Now we have several others testing it and all have come up with the same result, namely that 1080P is NOT being accepted and displayed correctly by the set. This is not definitive proof that is does not work as there is a chance that their PC's are not putting out a standard consumer 1080P output, but all the indications are now that it does not work in spite of the severe wishful thinking of some.

I don't know what Gazelle has done to upset you so, but it looks like you and tonydeluce were saying he was wrong and calling him names when he now appears to be correct.

I just tested the 6168 with the Hd850 using component the cables from my XBOX. It appears the TV does not accept BTB or has limited BTB. Since black level for both on DVE was the same. I didn't expect the same black level as my old Mits 55807. HDMI appeared to look better on the HD850.

moss312, My 6168 clearly passes blacker than black, using DVE. I tested it using a Sony DVP-S560D DVD player over component cables.

On the VGA input, the Mac Mini works at 1080p with the only problem being the image is underscanned, and therefore doesn't take up the entire screen. I didn't find a way to adjust that, if there is a way to do it, please let me know.

I connected the iScan via VGA and when you select the 1080p/60 or 1080p/50 outputs, the TV displays "Mode not supported." This is on the VGA input. Now the Mac Mini says it's at 59Hz, but I haven't figured out how to switch the Hz on the 1080p output of the iScan yet. Assuming I can figure out how to fix the underscan on the VGA input, this might be a workable solution. I have to call DVDO to find out how to create a custom resolution output. So for I have been unsuccessful in outputting 1080p to the VGA input via the iScan.


Don't remember exactly but you can work on the VGA underscan in the menus. Set the PC input to PC and then go into the picture menu. There are several options that are only available if you set the PC input to PC. These include moving image up/down left/right and expanding the image. I didn't play with these yet but saw them.

Vadnu. I'll have to try an older JVC Prog Player I have and see if it does. Maybe its the HD850. The HD850 did pass it to my 32" using s-video. I'm not liking the quality of the HD850 though. With your Sony DVD do the darks appear to have less detail that your previous TV?

I wonder if anyone has tried the Panasonic S77 or S97 with the 6168. I would like to know how they pass BTB and handle MB over HDMI.

I don't know what Gazelle has done to upset you so, but it looks like you and tonydeluce we saying he was wrong and calling him names when he now appears to be correct.

I based my "likelyhood of 1080p over HDMI" on certain items reported and
when it turrned out that the set was reporting 1920x1080i and not
1920x1080p I asserted that it was *unlikely* but I still don't rule it
completely out.

I personally did not call Gazelle names. I said I don't believe anyone takes
him seriously. And the reason I don't believe people take him serious
is due to numerous posts where he makes blanket statements about one
technology being better than other, etc.

The fact is, each technology that continues in production offers
consumers something or it would not continue to ship in any volume.

The JVC D-ILA which he continus to talk about "buzz" on the street,
best picture at CES, most anticipated TV, etc. are bright TVs that
are great for certain types of content.

That content is *not* movies with dark content due to the poor
black levels and low constrast ratio. So far Sony is the only company
who has been able to offer LCOS without these limitations.

For those that have used a calibration DVD (DVE), what numbers did you get for brightness, contrast, color, etc?

Please post.

I have the hd850 and a 60vs810... I notice the blacks aren't as good as my old toshiba.

Lag issues. There is a slight (may .1 seconds) between this TV and our analog kitchen TV. So if they are on at the same time you can hear a slight echo. This is too bad as often the person in the kitchen wants to watch the same program as the folks in the other room. If you are on the digital channels its more like a second or too, which is obviously a source problem.




You will always have a significant (1-2 second) lag between the digital and analog channels. The digital processing requires a buffer of that size to do the decode, decompression and error correction. No amount of processing speed will change that.

Lee

Dear Gamers,

I suspect that someone else will be able to provide feedback prior to this weekend, but my 6168 should be delivered on Friday afternoon. While I’m not a *super* hardcore gamer (I have a job, a wife, and don’t live in my mom’s basement), my game playing certainly borders on the excessive - much to the dismay of the aforementioned female.

By Saturday morning I should be able to comment on the performance of the PS2, GameCube and Xbox. Although if Halo 2 exhibits unmanageable lag, you’ll probably hear my feedback prior to then. I’ll be the guy screaming, “Saaaaaaamsuuuuuuuung!” like Kirk screaming “Khaaaaan!” in Star Trek II. =0)

I am curious does any know the lumens rating for each of the 68 series of Sammy's?

I said I don't believe anyone takes
him seriously. And the reason I don't believe people take him serious
is due to numerous posts where he makes blanket statements about one
technology being better than other, etc.

I can attest to that.

Wow, I am more impressed with your superhuman powers of being able to notice .1 second delay than the TV's abilities.
Its like an echo. Kinda disturbing. Makes it sound like the TV is in a empty warehouse :)

DEALER92 - Thanks for taking the time for a qualilty Review/Feedback - Much Appreciated!

Just a side note regarding some Lag reported in an earlier review.

If you are viewing an HD broadcast in one room on an HDTV and you have another TV receiving SD or digital that is not HD - Lag (or echo) between the sets is common as the broadcasts are different so it should be understood that an adjoining room TV without HD may not be sequenced - that's not truly lag though it's a broadcast delay. I can notice this when I may walk from my Den with my HDTV and walk two rooms away and if the Kitchen LCD has the same channel that isn't tuned in as it has no STB on the kitchen counter their is a broadcast delay as in fact they are two separate broadcasts transmissions. This should have no impact on the HDTV at all but could give the impression of lag but I would not think two separate systems receive two separate broadcasts mediums would not count as lag in this scenario. Very Good reviews though and grateful to hear the terrific feedback so far. Thank you!
The lag you mention here is about 2 seconds and yes it is the broadcasters delay in converting the feed to digital (regardless if its HD or not).

The echo lag (estimated at about .1 seconds), is when both sets are receiving OTA analog signals. The digital sets have to convert the analog signal to digital and process it. That seems to take a fraction of a second so you get the echo effect. That may be impossible to get rid of on the current generations of digital processor chips. Maybe for many years to come.

Just received the call from the shipping company confirming that my new HLR5688w will be delivered tomorrow afternoon. I will for sure post a complete review of this new 'Capt. Kirk' model as I believe I may be one of the first to receive this new 1080p Samsung. My connections will include Samsung HD Direct TV receiver throught HDMI1 input, Samsung DVD player through HDMI2, Xbox through component input, PC through VGA input and VCR through S-video input. All of a sudden today is feeling more like x-mas eve... :) -PushStar

I am curious does any know the lumens rating for each of the 68 series of Sammy's?

For spec's check POST #1 in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493443

...

The way I have the iScan connected now is through HDMI at 1080i/60. I will say that watching a DVD on the TV through the iScan is almost HD! It is truly amazing. However, the TV's internal deinterlacer is plain crap! I'm not sure it does anything. The jaggies are really, really, really bad! This is especially noticeable on SD content. Now I have not connected the DirecTivo to the TV directly, but I will try that and see how it looks. I can't imagine the iScan is causing the problem though.

...

Best Regards,
Adam
See my comments earlier. I fed my 5668 an old Sony S7000 @480i via component and also a SS HD 950 via HDMI. The pictures were almost identical. You could start a real debate and be hard pressed to see any significant differences. The 950 is a tiny bit clearer and perhaps some better color blending but not night and day as you state here. I don't think the deinterlacer is all that bad on the TV IMHO.

Hey folks, lets calm down. I've been trying to get things to work and they do - but not overly well on the 1920x1080 DVI/HDMI front. AkaStp - I apologize, what the set says is 1920x1080i 60Hz. I don't know what to make of that. I have tried to use 30Hz and that works but not really better than 60Hz.

schaffer970 -- does the VGA input at 1920x1080@60Hz look better or worse than 1920x1080@60Hz on the HDMI input??

-reiner

Thanks again Moss. I went back and reread your post. This was the part that I was most interested in.

"The Samasung HD850 kept giving me a warning on screen stating the display device does not support HDMI audio. When I changed the HD850 digital output in the menus to PCM it was able to send audio to the TV which is when I would hear the echo. But it would also only send 2ch audio to the Yamaha. So I set it back to bitstream. I can disable the warning message on the HD850. However when I turn it on and off the message gets enabled again. Kind of annoying but it only last a few seconds. It does not appear that the 6168 will accept a 5.1 signal through the HDMI. Note the only thing I have that is HDMI to HDMI is the HD850."

If it turns out to be a fact that 5.1 through HDMI is NOT accepted by the TV, then THIS IS A REAL SHOW STOPPER FOR ME!!

This TV is not a first or second generation set. WHAT A SAMSUNG DESIGN FLAW!!!!! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING???

Can anyone else verify that HDMI 5.1 is not supported??

I'm sorry wtr1 but didn't the 850 have issues that have resolved with the 950? I don't have my 6768 yet but I just set up my 950 Friday and it pushes 5.1 to my Sharp - when I did DVD reviews before buying I thought I'd read there were many issues with the Samsung 850 that are suposedly fixed with the 950.

I could be wrong but since both the 950 and 68 series are fresh to the market it would be hard to believe Samsung hadn't tested for this on their own new product line. It may be an issue with the 850 rather than the TV. Just a thought and I'll certainly be able to confirm it directly once I have my new one - so far my 950 has been flawless. :D

Good Luck though.

If it turns out to be a fact that 5.1 through HDMI is NOT accepted by the TV, then THIS IS A REAL SHOW STOPPER FOR ME!!

Honestly, why does it even matter? Why not just run the optical cable straight from the DVD player to your receiver and forget about HDMI audio?

The only advantage to HDMI audio will come when receivers can switch multiple HDMI inputs. Other than that, who cares?

Items We Would Like To Test, But Need To Wait Until HDTV's Are Released:

9. Can you get 1:1 pixel mapping of a computer input on the PC/VGA input (at 1920x1080)? On HDMI? If so, how exactly is it setup and what picture mode do you use?

Isn't 1-to-1 pixel mapping an impossibility from the start on these sets, considering they use diamond-shaped pixels? True 1-to-1 pixel mapping has been impossible since the HD2+, from what I've seen. Frankly, I think that the whole wobulation/diamond pixel thing is kind of BS. I suppose that it has driven the prices down, but I'd still prefer that a higher-quality, non-wobulated, square pixel set be available. This does not seem to be the direction that TI is headed, however.

Isn't 1-to-1 pixel mapping an impossibility from the start on these sets, considering they use diamond-shaped pixels? True 1-to-1 pixel mapping has been impossible since the HD2+, from what I've seen. Frankly, I think that the whole wobulation/diamond pixel thing is kind of BS. I suppose that it has driven the prices down, but I'd still prefer that a higher-quality, non-wobulated, square pixel set be available. This does not seem to be the direction that TI is headed, however.

1 to 1 pixel mapping is possible even though the pixels are diamond shaped.
The wobulated TI chips resolve every pixel of the 1920x1080 grid.

The diamond overlap creates more film-like image which is great for video ( very
difficult to distinguish from 1080p "non-wobulated" sets and their are many
who prefer the wobulated image ) but may not be ideal for the PC.

Since the manufacturer's spec was not saying that it would work, the burden of proof should be on those claiming that it does.

As others have said, get a few people to confirm they got is working with a source that they know is 1080P with NO "issues" such as funny text, before proclaiming all over the forums that it does work.

My skepticism was based on the both the Samsung spec/claim and the fact that schaffer970 said that there will still "issues" with the image. In a later post schaffer970 has now corrected himself saying that the TV was reporting 1080i and not 1080P.

Now we have several others testing it and all have come up with the same result, namely that 1080P is NOT being accepted and displayed correctly by the set. This is not definitive proof that is does not work as there is a chance that their PC's are not putting out a standard consumer 1080P output, but all the indications are now that it does not work in spite of the severe wishful thinking of some.

I don't know what Gazelle has done to upset you so, but it looks like you and tonydeluce were saying he was wrong and calling him names when he now appears to be correct.


These know-nothings can really be funny , but the really sad thing is some unwary consumer may actually think they know what they're talking about when they spout nonsense authoratatively as though it were fact. I only speak to the people who engineer, manufacture, wholesale, and sell these sets on a daily basis, so surely the know-nothings posting gibberish here know a LOT more than the morons who actually design and build these sets:)

Has anyone found out if an external scaler like a DVDO HD+ does a better job than the Sammy's internal scaler????? I can't seem to find a definitive answer in any of the posts. Thanks.

moss312 , I looked at the DVE calibration disk again and noticed that the blacker than black bar is very apparent in 4:3 mode. When you expand the image to fill the screen, blacker than black is less visible. I'm guessing that since DVE ouputs a 4:3 immage that is what you shoud use for calibration.
Are there any experts out there that care to comment?

I ended up with Contrast 50, Brightness 50, Sharpness 0 and Color 54. The origional settings were 80,50,50,50.

westa: I look forward to your tests and reviews, and I certainly hope that you are correct in your assumption. I agree that Samsung should have tested for this and worked the problem, at this stage in their HDTV development.

midblue: it does matter because of the lip sync problem(s). If you run optical cables from all your sources directly to your receiver, then you need to correct for each source. And, I don't think that we know that one correction per source will do the job for all source material. The overall notion is that lip sync/ video delay should be corrected in the HDTV and the TVs optical output should be 5.1.

If I can get answers to those 2 questions, I'm going to give Fry's my money for this set.

Its is going on display today (Monday july 25) at Fry's in Concord.CA.
So they said over the phone.

NB

OK I guess I've lurked long enough. I've ordered my HRL5678 from Tweeter and it should be installed next week. I'll have a lot of questions, but right now my question concerns remote control of the set.

I'm putting a Polk LSiC in front of the 5678 and this should cover up the IR sensor so I probably can't use the regular remote (or the Uni Remote from my Yamaha). I've ordered a universal remote that sends out both IR and RF and then I can put an IR emitter in front of the sensor on the set.

However, I was just wondering if I could plug the set into my Comcast box and let the box turn power off an on. Since I'll usually control sound from my Yamaha, I may only need a remote to turn the set on and off.

However, will this damage the set if I simply switch it from the wall plug rather than the IR port?

Thanks guys and I look forward to answering some of the questions that have been posted.

Bob

Samsung HLR 5678W (on the way)
Yamaha RX-V4600
Polk Audio LSi9 Front Speakers
Pollk Audio LSiC-Center Speaker
Polk LSi7 Rear Speakers
Velodyne DLS-5000R 15" Sub
Sony DVP-NS975V dvd
Sony CDP-CX355 CD jukebox
X-Box with HD connection
JVC HR-VP770U VCR (yes I still have one of those)

I don't have a "digital cable" subscription so I'm using the 6168's internal cable tuner to pick up unencrypted channels. It seems a little more sensitive to noise than my PC's tuner cards but I need to clean up my wiring. Anyway, I noticed a couple of issues:

1. It seems the cable tuner can't detect digital subchannels which don't have a virtual channel number if they share a major channel number with other channels that have a VCN. On my cable feed (Comcast, Santa Clara, CA), NBC-HD shares the same major channel as ESPN-HD (116). The NBC-HD subchannel has a virtual channel number of 11 and the TV's tuner correctly lists it as channel 11-1. However, it cannot seem to detect the ESPN-HD channel at 116-3. (My PC is able to tune to ESPN-HD if I explicitly specify the channel/subchannel info.) ABC-HD and PBS-HD share channel 117 and they both have separate VCNs and the tuner detects both. INHD1/2 are also detected -- neither have VCNs but they don't share a channel with any that do.

2. At initial setup, the cable tuner detected a lot of digital channels (including some that looked like Video-On-Demand streams). Some of these channels occasionally stop transmission and the TV automatically drops them from its listing. Sometimes, it just "hides" the subchannel -- you can add it back by going into the channel setup menu. Other times, the subchannel goes away completely (I presume you have to redo a channel scan to get them back).

3. There is an annoying click when it switches between cable and OTA tuners. There is no such click when switching between cable tuner and PC input.

Anyway, these are minor issues. I only really expect the local digital stations to work properly and they are fine. This is my first HDTV so I wasn't sure if this is common behavior.

Bob: I noticed that you have one of the new Yahama 4600s. I have been looking at the manual, trying to determine if it has lip sync correction. Can't find anything about lip sync in the downloadable manual and maximum delay settings appear to be only 99milleseconds.

Have you tried lip sync correction?

Bob: I noticed that you have one of the new Yahama 4600s. I am interesting in one and have been looking at the manual, trying to determine if it has lip sync correction. Can't find anything about lip sync in the downloadable manual. There is some information about delay but maximum delay settings appear to be only 99 milleseconds. That may not be enough.

Have you tried lip sync correction?

Have you found any description about lip sync in the manual? If so, what page?

Just received the call from the shipping company confirming that my new HLR5688w will be delivered tomorrow afternoon. I will for sure post a complete review of this new 'Capt. Kirk' model as I believe I may be one of the first to receive this new 1080p Samsung. My connections will include Samsung HD Direct TV receiver throught HDMI1 input, Samsung DVD player through HDMI2, Xbox through component input, PC through VGA input and VCR through S-video input. All of a sudden today is feeling more like x-mas eve... :) -PushStar

congrats, make sure to takes some good pics!

Bob: I noticed that you have one of the new Yahama 4600s. I have been looking at the manual, trying to determine if it has lip sync correction. Can't find anything about lip sync in the downloadable manual and maximum delay settings appear to be only 99milleseconds.

Have you tried lip sync correction?

It's not installed yet either, but it does have lip sync correction. Audio Delay for Adjusting Lip-Sync (0-240 ms)

Go to audioholics for the review (posted Friday)
bob

The lag you mention here is about 2 seconds and yes it is the broadcasters delay in converting the feed to digital (regardless if its HD or not).

The echo lag (estimated at about .1 seconds), is when both sets are receiving OTA analog signals. The digital sets have to convert the analog signal to digital and process it. That seems to take a fraction of a second so you get the echo effect. That may be impossible to get rid of on the current generations of digital processor chips. Maybe for many years to come.

Sorry, this is lag has nothing to do with A/D conversion, it has everything to do with digital lockup, error correction, and decompression. It requires a specific number of data frames to find the frame beginning, check for and correct errors, and to expand the data to full raw size. The incoming signal is an 8 level digital signal inposed on a vestigal side band modulation, hence the name 8VSB.

Lee

Bob: thanks, found it on page 60.

Where did you get your Yahama?

If I can get answers to those 2 questions, I'm going to give Fry's my money for this set.

Its is going on display today (Monday july 25) at Fry's in Concord.CA.
So they said over the phone.

NB

Over the weekend I went to Frys in Renton, WA looking for a 1080p Samsung. I asked the salesmen, they didn't know anything about it. I thought, if they didn't know about it, they probably don't have it.

But, there was a newly opened Samsung sitting inconspicously in an isle. I had to check the manual and then tell the salesmen about it ... it was a 6168.

I suspected that, but thanks for the confirmation on the power switch.

WTRL1--I got it at Tweeter. Just got the entire system there including the Polks and Velodyne.
bob

Anyone using DVD VR325 with new HLR sets ? I have been looking for reviews of this unit all over. I was going to order HD950 but this VR325 sounds a good alternative . Any pros/cons ? I read some where that these combo units usually less efficient than regular standalone players.

Well, I tried in other DVD/recorder threads too...sorry for going off topic here.

-Vish
waiting on 5668 , DVD VR325, dish 941

We had some reports from in store viewing of macroblocking has anyone
who has received this TV hooked up the 2910 or 3910 via HDMI and
noticed any MB?

Anyone using DVD VR325 with new HLR sets ? I have been looking for reviews of this unit all over. I was going to order HD950 but this VR325 sounds a good alternative . Any pros/cons ? I read some where that these combo units usually less efficient than regular standalone players.

Well, I tried in other DVD/recorder threads too...sorry for going off topic here.

-Vish
waiting on 5668 , DVD VR325, dish 941

I'm also planing on using the DVD VR325. The specs look great plus I have a lot of VHF tape (home Videos) I need to convert. I should be on the next shipping list of 5668. order mine 6/15. :rolleyes:

Thanks Vandu I will try in 4:3 mode.

Just received the call from the shipping company confirming that my new HLR5688w will be delivered tomorrow afternoon. I will for sure post a complete review of this new 'Capt. Kirk' model as I believe I may be one of the first to receive this new 1080p Samsung. My connections will include Samsung HD Direct TV receiver throught HDMI1 input, Samsung DVD player through HDMI2, Xbox through component input, PC through VGA input and VCR through S-video input. All of a sudden today is feeling more like x-mas eve... :) -PushStar

Dude I envy you, but congratulations on receiving your 1080p capt Kirk tomorrow.
Make sure you use the Official XBOX HD AV pack (component cables) to connect your XBOX to TV.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your post after setting up & testing your equipment with the 1080 5688 TV!
:)

So, in summary, immediate power removal from a DLP is not a good thing.

Immediate power removal of any (DLP, LCD, D-ILA/SCRD) bulb based projector (RPTV or FPTV) is a bad thing.

-phil

Yes, I already have own the Monster cable Xbox HD pack using component inputs and plan to put to rest any questions in regards to lag while playing xbox. The real true test will be when competing on Xbox live. This is where any lag will no doubt make a serious difference.
I have Xbox live for quite some time and already play in some of the finest 2K5 leagues anywhere. Using my new 7 megapixel digital camera I plan to post a few gr8 pictures of the new Kirk in action. I just picked up a DVI to HDMI adapter for my HD Direct TV receiver and now am completely ready for the delivery tomorrow. Hang in there TMSKILZ for I am sure that your set will most likely arrive soon. :)

1 to 1 pixel mapping is possible even though the pixels are diamond shaped.
The wobulated TI chips resolve every pixel of the 1920x1080 grid.
....

Based on users posts so far, it seems the 1080p sets are NOT offering 1:1 pixel mapping over VGA at 60Hz. Users are reporting underscan.

That may prove correctable.

Those with the sets could you post images of how the PC screen looks,
also how does 720p over HDMI look, and 1024x768 over VGA?

For many of us PC performace is key...

hey pushstar make sure you try out a game like a first person shooter, halo or something to make sure there is no lag, first person shooters are easiest to tell man, if i find out no lag i am going through with my preorder

Great suggestion.. Yes of course kregstrong... I will for sure fully test out Halo2 along with other xbox first person shooters. I do realize that many people are on the fence because there's no definative answer in regards to how these new 1080p models handle online gaming. Hopefully, my soon to be posted review of the 88 series will help others to make an informative decision.

moss: thanks for the GREAT post!

Were you able to note what sort of audio (2.0 or 5.1) was being transmitted out the optical output to your receiver from the TV when the input to the TV was through a HDMI cable?

Sure would like an answer to this.


At lunch I tested Sam 950 via HDMI to 6168 and Toslink optical from TV AVR and I got DTS. Was using Onkyo 602 and it clearly displayed DTS when that part of the Eagles Hell Freezes over Music DVD came on. 5.1 works from TV! P.S. I disconnected all other out cables from Sam 950. :)

Based on users posts so far, it seems the 1080p sets are NOT offering 1:1 pixel mapping over VGA at 60Hz. Users are reporting underscan.

That may prove correctable.

Those with the sets could you post images of how the PC screen looks,
also how does 720p over HDMI look, and 1024x768 over VGA?

For many of us PC performace is key...

Ack! Who in their right mind woudl use 1024x768 (a 4:3) resolution on a 1920x1080 (16:9) display?

Jeez if you're going to use 1024 people, PLEASE use the 16:9 equivlant (it's like 1024x726 or somthing odd like that, check the manual).

I plan to send a full 1920x1080 out of my VGA port :)

I checked my video card and even without the display it can support it :)

- D

Thanks again Moss. I went back and reread your post. This was the part that I was most interested in.

"The Samasung HD850 kept giving me a warning on screen stating the display device does not support HDMI audio. When I changed the HD850 digital output in the menus to PCM it was able to send audio to the TV which is when I would hear the echo. But it would also only send 2ch audio to the Yamaha. So I set it back to bitstream. I can disable the warning message on the HD850. However when I turn it on and off the message gets enabled again. Kind of annoying but it only last a few seconds. It does not appear that the 6168 will accept a 5.1 signal through the HDMI. Note the only thing I have that is HDMI to HDMI is the HD850."

If it turns out to be a fact that 5.1 through HDMI is NOT accepted by the TV, then THIS IS A REAL SHOW STOPPER FOR ME!!

This TV is not a first or second generation set. WHAT A SAMSUNG DESIGN FLAW!!!!! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING???

Can anyone else verify that HDMI 5.1 is not supported??

Its not a design flaw. No one's current generation tv's do.

At lunch I tested Sam 950 via HDMI to 6168 and Toslink optical from TV AVR and I got DTS. Was using Onkyo 602 and it clearly displayed DTS when that part of the Eagles Hell Freezes over Music DVD came on. 5.1 works from TV! P.S. I disconnected all other out cables from Sam 950. :)

Thanks for testing, good news!

Its not a design flaw. No one's current generation tv's do.

What did you think of Dealer92's post above?

Ack! Who in their right mind woudl use 1024x768 (a 4:3) resolution on a 1920x1080 (16:9) display?

Jeez if you're going to use 1024 people, PLEASE use the 16:9 equivlant (it's like 1024x726 or somthing odd like that, check the manual).

I plan to send a full 1920x1080 out of my VGA port :)

I checked my video card and even without the display it can support it :)

- D

According to the Samsung DLP Series 68 pdf the TV can act as a WXGA monitor.
This 1368 x 768 if I remember correctly. What does this mean?

At lunch I tested Sam 950 via HDMI to 6168 and Toslink optical from TV AVR and I got DTS. Was using Onkyo 602 and it clearly displayed DTS when that part of the Eagles Hell Freezes over Music DVD came on. 5.1 works from TV! P.S. I disconnected all other out cables from Sam 950. :)


Strange my Samsung HD850 would only pass audio via HDMI when set to PCM. Then the TV would send 2.0 to my Yamaha 5760. When I set the HD850 to bitstream the 6168 would no longer have audio and the HD850 would display HDMI audio not supported on this device. What do you have your audio set for on the 950 PCM (which I believe is only two channel) or bitstream. The HD850 is the only device I have to test audio sent to my 6168 via HDMI. My Directv Sir-160 uses a DVI to HDMI cable and DVI does not support audio. If for some reason your 950 is sending 5.1 via HDMI to your 6168 and your TV is sending it back to your Onkyo at 5.1 I will be returning my 850 for the 950. I did not know these TV's would except any DTS signals.

We had some reports from in store viewing of macroblocking has anyone
who has received this TV hooked up the 2910 or 3910 via HDMI and
noticed any MB?

I guess there are no 1080p Samsung owners who also own Denon DVD-2910
or DVD-3910 or at least none that are willing to report on this...

At lunch I tested Sam 950 via HDMI to 6168 and Toslink optical from TV AVR and I got DTS. Was using Onkyo 602 and it clearly displayed DTS when that part of the Eagles Hell Freezes over Music DVD came on. 5.1 works from TV! P.S. I disconnected all other out cables from Sam 950. :)


Dealer92---I need a setup clarification...DVD--hdmi---6168--optical---Receiver and received DTS sound..correct?

Can this tv support DD5.1 also through the HDMI port? DTS is nice, but DD5.1 is an absolute must...

I guess there are no 1080p Samsung owners who also own Denon DVD-2910
or DVD-3910 or at least none that are willing to report on this...
Every new owner isn't a member of AVS. ;)

Take two aspirin and a nice cold shower.

Ack! Who in their right mind woudl use 1024x768 (a 4:3) resolution on a 1920x1080 (16:9) display?
...

- D

The point is to test the scaling ability of the Samsung, see how it handles standard PC resolutions. Not many will run the desktop apps at 1920x1080 unless they have a telescope in hand ;)

Isn't 1-to-1 pixel mapping an impossibility from the start on these sets, considering they use diamond-shaped pixels? True 1-to-1 pixel mapping has been impossible since the HD2+, from what I've seen. Frankly, I think that the whole wobulation/diamond pixel thing is kind of BS. I suppose that it has driven the prices down, but I'd still prefer that a higher-quality, non-wobulated, square pixel set be available. This does not seem to be the direction that TI is headed, however.

These sets have diamond shaped mirrors. These diamond shaped mirrors are used to display square pixels. There are many excellent threads on the geometry of the TI chips. I like especially http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534863.

Don

At lunch I tested Sam 950 via HDMI to 6168 and Toslink optical from TV AVR and I got DTS. Was using Onkyo 602 and it clearly displayed DTS when that part of the Eagles Hell Freezes over Music DVD came on. 5.1 works from TV!

Any lip sync problems that way? The TV's Toslink output should match the picture, and even if the picture is delayed, they should both be delayed the same. If you run Toslink from the source (Cable box or DVD) to the AVR and the TV delay's the picture, that could produce the lip sync problems. These are all assumptions, since I'm on the East coast and no Sammy's have made it past Chicago yet, as far as I know.

John G.

I finally ordered my set through TVA after months of lurking on the Sammy threads. However, the underscan mentioned here when running through the VGA port is making me worry a bit about my purchase. Can someone please post a picture so we can see how bad it is? I am also curious if the new nVidia driver can help tweak this.

Thanks!

Do we know for sure what chips are in which sets(interests in the 88 chip)and what the differences are in the HD3 to the HD4 just
As to the chipset differences, you might check out August's WIDE SCREEN REVIEW's article:"Digital Light Processing Technology from A-Z". I live in the Riverside area. I drove to Temecula to observe a 6178; to Santa Monica for a 6168. I own a 6163 and am considering a upgrade. After seeing both, I am undesided.

Carl

The point is to test the scaling ability of the Samsung, see how it handles standard PC resolutions. Not many will run the desktop apps at 1920x1080 unless they have a telescope in hand ;)

I run 1920 x 1200 on a 1200p 23 in. widescreen Sony LCD computer display
and it looks great without a telescope.

I suspect with 50in to 70in displays you won't even need glasses :-)

Dealer92---I need a setup clarification...DVD--hdmi---6168--optical---Receiver and received DTS sound..correct?

Can this tv support DD5.1 also through the HDMI port? DTS is nice, but DD5.1 is an absolute must...


Well I'm no audio exert nor an expert on my AVR, so I could be completely wrong here. Here is what I have... Sam 950 set to PCM (Bit stream I get no audio and the HDMI Audio format not supported message) I have also turned off the PCM Down sampling on the DVD.

I then hit the audio button on the Sam Remote and get the DTS 5.1 CH Audio (What the DVD is exporting). TV Menu doesn't let me change digital output but it is showing outputting PCM.

On the Onkyo 602 it is showing signal as "PCM fs: 48k" the dts symbol and the Neo 6 are displayed and I hear music from the front speakers voices from the center and Crowd from the surround speakers. Sounds great, still need to turn off TV audio as they are slightly off, though not enough to detect much when watching lips to voices.

I finally ordered my set through TVA after months of lurking on the Sammy threads. However, the underscan mentioned here when running through the VGA port is making me worry a bit about my purchase. Can someone please post a picture so we can see how bad it is? I am also curious if the new nVidia driver can help tweak this.

Thanks!

Don't worry about the underscan. I hooked my PC up using the VGA port and then adjusted the set so that the windows screen completely covered the sets viewable area. When using the VGA port, you select PC as the input and this then allows you to bring up a menu (I think it's its under PC wide) that allows you to adjust the screen just like you would do with a computer monitor. Look in the manual under PC connection.

Oh! Too Cool! Thanks a lot for the info :) I plan to connect the Xbox 360 to the screen using the VGA port to run it at 1080p now I dont have to worry about the underscan. I would never have guessed they would have put PC Monitor like controls in the menu!

Well I for one will be playing my HD-DVDs/Blu Ray through an HTPC as they will release internal blu ray drives/HD-DVDs for PCs eventually. At that point, it would be nice to have the ability to hook up the set through DVI at 1920x1080 at 60hz (which we don't even truly know if that is the case yet). So the "use" 1080p at 60hz is simply PC compatability which is essential for internal bluray/hd-dvd players...and that will be the best way to achieve the best image quality.....just as its the best way to achieve optimal DVD image quality right now.



I have been using a HTPC for 5 years, and currently run a desktop resolution of 1712x1080i to my CRT RPTV.
I am well aware of the advantages of a HTPC for processing and upscaling video. In fact I am the person who started the furore over FFDShow resize a couple of years ago.

It is important to remember that BluRay and probably HD-DVD will NOT support 1080p 60fps.
The disks will only carry 1080i 50-60Hz or 50-60 FIELDS per second, and 1080p 24 Frames per second.
The player will do the conversion to industry standard 50 or 60Hz 1080i, or output 1080p 24 directly.

Here are the specs for BluRay:

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/bdj_gem_application_definition_050307-12959.pdf

The best way to display 24fps video is at 24 fps. This avoids the nasty 3:2 telecine judder that is inevitable with 30frame per second or 60 field per second display.
Remember that digital displays do not flicker, so there is no advantage in higher refresh rates, although frame doubling could be used in the display if required.
So, unless you want to play games that require high frame rates, there is no need to use any more then 24 fps for progressive video.

PC’s can run 1920x1080p 24 for normal desktop use without problems, so where is the need for 1080p 60 if you don’t play games?

As for the issue of the lack of available 1080p source, well most current 1080i is captured from film and is therefor progressive. Both fields are from the same frame, and can therefor be recombined to form perfect 1080p.
With the aid of 3:2 pull down we can recover the original 1080p 24fps source, so there is PLENTY of available 1080p source available right now.
Many of today’s best studio HD cameras are also 1080 psf24 (effectively 1080 24p)
Notice that everything comes back to 24fps.

There is a compelling need for proper 1080p 24 and or psf24 support, and you may notice that many high end front projectors support 24p or psf24 (Progressive Segmented Frame).

So can anyone test the Samsungs for 1080p 24 or psf24 support from a PC or scaler?

Regards,

Owen
___________________________
The FFDShow resize-sharpen dude.

I didn't see anyone reporting getting a HLR XX78 series set outside of Tweeter and Magnolia. Is this true? If so, I might be one of the first here.

I should get my HLR6178W on Wednesday here in NoCal unless the shipping company is very mistaken (I made them read me the model number from the box!). So, XX78s are coming soon.

I will try a PC hookup with my new machine which has a nVidia 7800GTX installed and see what happens. It might take me a day to finish setup and PC testing before I can report.

Don't worry about the underscan. I hooked my PC up using the VGA port and then adjusted the set so that the windows screen completely covered the sets viewable area. When using the VGA port, you select PC as the input and this then allows you to bring up a menu (I think it's its under PC wide) that allows you to adjust the screen just like you would do with a computer monitor. Look in the manual under PC connection.

I agree, this is very simple, did without reading how in the manual, very intuitive and takes only a minute. The final result looks great, very clear - Text easy to read and color is fantastic

I'm kind of bummed about the inability of my new 5678 to display 1080p over HDMI. Do you think that a firmware upgrade could resolve the issue, or is this strictly hardware related due to bandwith concerns? Regardless, has anyone considered writing Samsung and calling them out on this BS?

Well I'm no audio exert nor an expert on my AVR, so I could be completely wrong here. Here is what I have... Sam 950 set to PCM (Bit stream I get no audio and the HDMI Audio format not supported message) I have also turned off the PCM Down sampling on the DVD.

I then hit the audio button on the Sam Remote and get the DTS 5.1 CH Audio (What the DVD is exporting). TV Menu doesn't let me change digital output but it is showing outputting PCM.

On the Onkyo 602 it is showing signal as "PCM fs: 48k" the dts symbol and the Neo 6 are displayed and I hear music from the front speakers voices from the center and Crowd from the surround speakers. Sounds great, still need to turn off TV audio as they are slightly off, though not enough to detect much when watching lips to voices.

It's not passing 5.1 audio then, it's passing 2-channel and your Onkyo is using the DTS Neo:6 algorithm to provide "simulated" surround sound. It's no different than watching a normal stereo tv show that is processed into "virtual" surround. Thanks for the update, that clarifies things a bit...

I'm kind of bummed about the inability of my new 5678 to display 1080p over HDMI. Do you think that a firmware upgrade could resolve the issue, or is this strictly hardware related due to bandwith concerns? Regardless, has anyone considered writing Samsung and calling them out on this BS?

1080p on HDMI was never in the spec's for these sets. The Samsung literature for the sets specifically said 1080i was what the max supported. In prior years, Samsung has not made firmware releases available to consumers.

Um, ok I'm a little lost here.

Is 1080p on the new hlr-xx78 sets supported anywhere? i.e. over component but not hdmi? What kind of 1080p does it support? Does it just mean that the TV will support upconversion of whatever signal comes through and display it as 1080p in a pixelated and unflattering way?

If so, maybe I should just purchase a 720p hlr-5067?

If someone could clarify, that would be great.

thx

Chris in NYC

Um, ok I'm a little lost here.

Is 1080p on the new hlr-xx78 sets supported anywhere? i.e. over component but not hdmi? What kind of 1080p does it support? Does it just mean that the TV will support upconversion of whatever signal comes through and display it as 1080p in a pixelated and unflattering way?

If so, maybe I should just purchase a 720p hlr-5067?

If someone could clarify, that would be great.

thx

Chris in NYC

There are many many posts on this very topic. The bottom line is that the 1080p sets will upconvert all inputs to 1080p, which provides a much greater resolution than the 720p sets. This, coupled with the significantly improved contrast ratio, have led many to report that the 1080p picture is much better than the 720p sets. BTW - there is presently no 1080p source material and it is doubtful that the networks will go 1080p in the near future. It is possible that the new DVD format may be 1080p, but I don't believe that has been determined yet. Anyway, this is a very short digest of the issue you raised, you can get a lot more (and probably better) info from the many other posts on this topic.

Well I'm no audio exert nor an expert on my AVR, so I could be completely wrong here. Here is what I have... Sam 950 set to PCM (Bit stream I get no audio and the HDMI Audio format not supported message) I have also turned off the PCM Down sampling on the DVD.

I then hit the audio button on the Sam Remote and get the DTS 5.1 CH Audio (What the DVD is exporting). TV Menu doesn't let me change digital output but it is showing outputting PCM.

On the Onkyo 602 it is showing signal as "PCM fs: 48k" the dts symbol and the Neo 6 are displayed and I hear music from the front speakers voices from the center and Crowd from the surround speakers. Sounds great, still need to turn off TV audio as they are slightly off, though not enough to detect much when watching lips to voices.

PCM only outputs at 2 Ch. The tv won't pass DTS. NEO6 does a great job of simulating surround sound but it is not using discrete channels. NEO6 I believe is normally used for 2 ch sources.

My Yamaha displays how many channels it is receiving and displays them as small speakers on it's display. While using PCM on the 850 it shows two speakers. While using bitstream (which the 6168's HDMI does not accept) it shows 5 speakers and the subwoofer.

While your at it, if you don't mind, attach an optical cable from your 950 to your Onkyo. Whle the 950 is set to PCM see if the tv's sound matches the sound going from your dvd player directly to your receiver. I had an echo and had to delay the Yamaha by 120ms to get rid of the echo and match the sound. With delay while going directly to the receiver from my HD850 I was also finally able to get rid of a slight lip synch problem. I'm interested in seeing if you notice the problem with your delay since I have been getting lip sych problems and slight video lag with all progressive sources. I haven't tried 480i in game mode with my xbox yet to see if game mode fixed it.

For anyone checking for lip synch problems beware of your source. Using the 6168's speakers I usually notice a large lip sych problem with Discovery HD on directv. HDNET and HDMovies appears fine. UniversalHD also appeared to be off but I barely watch it.

Note: I am refering to the 6168's speakers not Directv directly to my Yamaha which I have to delay by 120ms in general to sych audio.

Anyone else see the lip sync problems that Moss is referring to?

I am scratching my head, wondering why Samsung would produce a set with built in lip sync problems. This is a little strange.

Or, is Moss seeing upconverting problems with his source?

Moss, do you know what sort of converting the DirecTV is doing? Did you notice this with your previous TV?

I have a beginner's question.

I know their is plenty of discussion on if these sets output 5.1. I was planning on using a Cable Card with my set (6168). Does anyone know if the set will output 5.1 while using a Cable Card? Or are you all just refering to the set passing 5.1 thru using HDMI?

wtr1 I didn't have problems with my mits 55807. The sources on Directv can be differ in lip synch. I noticed the same problems with DiscoveryHD when I had Directv outputting 480i to a 32" set I was using, while on pre-order (cancelled pre-order and bought at local Fry's for anyone not keeping track), until I bought the 6168. The Directv Samsung sir-160 is outputting at 1080i. Some channels need less delay from my Yamaha than others. So some of it is source dependant. DVD has been consistent with it's needed delay so far. Have only tried a few dvds. SW ep2, incredibles, dinasour. All look great but audio was off synch.

While watching the shuttle launch countdown on HDnet I have to delay my receiver by 100ms to match the tv speaker's sound.

...Does anyone know if the set will output 5.1 while using a Cable Card? Or are you all just refering to the set passing 5.1 thru using HDMI?
We're just talking about passing 5.1 into the set via HDMI and out of the set via optical to an AVR. There should be no problem with sending 5.1 out via optical once the set's accepted it via Cable Card.

EDIT: I'm not positive that the set can receive 5.1 from the Cable Card ... I'm only positive that if it can, you won't have any trouble sending 5.1 via optical to your AVR.

These sets have diamond shaped mirrors. These diamond shaped mirrors are used to display square pixels. There are many excellent threads on the geometry of the TI chips. I like especially http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534863.

Don

The diamond pixel/wobulation principle is a very cool concept, and an excellent cost-cutting measure, however it is still much different than a true 1080p display. I believe that 1920x1080 discrete pixels will still always look better, just as I believe that the Samsungs 720p tvs that use the HD2+ chip look better than the current generation. The diamond pixels may be nice for video content, but for things like a computer, where the source is expecting square, discrete pixels, the image will always look blurrier, because of the overlap between pixels. And computer sources are where people most want 1:1 pixel mapping. I continue to hope that at some point TI will produce a full 1080p, square pixel, non-wobulated chip.

Is a 120ms audio delay something most people who aren't A/Vphiles likely to notice? I have an older HT receiver that doesn't have an audio delay function. I would hate to have to buy a new receiver just to resolve this issue.

Is a 120ms audio delay something most people who aren't A/Vphiles likely to notice?

120 mS delay should be noticable to most persons.

If the source is 60 fps video, 120 mS = ~7 frames delay
If the source is 24 fps film, 120 mS = ~3 frames delay

Here's a discussion of the subject:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/audio_notes/f-TC-Keeping_it_all.shtml

Dolby specs maximum delay of +5/-15 mS for AC/3.

The ITU is a little more lenient with a spec of +45/-125 mS as perceptible and +90/-185 mS acceptable.

-phil

we just put out the 5668 at the store i work at in east hanover, nj and next to a fujitsu and pioneer elite plasma it holds its own. easily the best dlp i've seen

The diamond pixel/wobulation principle is a very cool concept, and an excellent cost-cutting measure, however it is still much different than a true 1080p display. I believe that 1920x1080 discrete pixels will still always look better, just as I believe that the Samsungs 720p tvs that use the HD2+ chip look better than the current generation. The diamond pixels may be nice for video content, but for things like a computer, where the source is expecting square, discrete pixels, the image will always look blurrier, because of the overlap between pixels. And computer sources are where people most want 1:1 pixel mapping. I continue to hope that at some point TI will produce a full 1080p, square pixel, non-wobulated chip.
You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, as are we all.

I'm one of those people who prefer the "film-like" quality of a wobulated chip. And if it's less expensive, so much the better.

The point is to test the scaling ability of the Samsung, see how it handles standard PC resolutions. Not many will run the desktop apps at 1920x1080 unless they have a telescope in hand ;)

But But...... World of Warcraft in Widescreen Resolution = drool...

Seriously though I have no qualms about lower resolutions, as long as you don't use a 4:3 and stretch it! :)

- D

...The bottom line is that the 1080p sets will upconvert all inputs to 1080p, which provides a much greater resolution than the 720p sets. This, coupled with the significantly improved contrast ratio, have led many to report that the 1080p picture is much better than the 720p sets. ....

I've yet to be convinced of this.

In general the more you upconvert the softer the image gets, unless some real time sharpening is applied.

Its going to be hard for a wombled 960x540 or even 960x1080 chip to compete against a HD2+ V2 1280x720 rock solid image.

Most of the early posts on new sets have too much OH WOW in them.
It takes a while for excitement to wear down, and to see unbiased information.

Where does TI actually state they are using 960x1080 chips, in the white paper I read , it stated 960x540??Anything that wombles is not ideal.

we just put out the 5668 at the store i work at in east hanover, nj and next to a fujitsu and pioneer elite plasma it holds its own. easily the best dlp i've seen

Thanks for the report; sounds mighty encouraging.