Interesting. While not an expert in the SM when I watched the technician yesterday I certainly did not get the impression that the centering of the image was input dependant. If so I will have to call SS back and have them come out to adjust all the inputs. I suppose that they would have to do it with a signal generator. We used the test patterns in VE to align the TV and it was connected to the component input.

Note a quick test of the HDMI input shows basically the same ratio of overscan but interestingly there is about 1% less overscan on each side from the component. Probably the difference in the two DVD players.

Centering of the image is a global setting.

360 isn't out yet. The current xbox is last gen technology running on a next gen tv. I wouldn't expect it to work perfectly. But the 360 and PS3 better work perfectly with these tvs (and other hd sets) or there will be a lot of disappointed folks.

I am well aware of that fact, but the 360 is right around the corner. People are preordering them already like crazy. It will be in stores in less then a month. My worry is that we are going to experience the same delay with the 360 as the normal xbox. If someone knows more about this and can ease my worrying i would not have to doubt whether the set needs to be returned or not.

Well I have my 5668 three weeks now and can report that when fed from a very good source the picture quality is unbelievable...I mean fantastic, unbelievable!!! Sharp, crisp, vivid colors with a 3D like quality.

Problems I am experiencing:
1) Lip sync - varies by source
2) No sound upon turning on the TV - only happened twice - mute & un-mute solves it.
3) shimmering/scintillation sometimes - don't know if this is the TV as I haven't noticed it on DVD's - might even be the HR10 -250 HD/tivo or D'TV signal. I am ordering an antenna from ant. direct (as I am only 26 miles from the empire state bldg.) and will be able to compare the SAT signal to OTA.
4) Last night was watching Hack in HD and noticed a "blotchiness" on some of the faces & arms some of the times. Don't know what this is or if this is the tv or source related. Anybody else experience this

I just want to let all the "new" people to the thread know that this hasn't diminished my enjoyment of this tv to any great degree. As I said to begin with...when its GOOD its VERY GOOD!

UCSB,

A couple of weeks back you posted that you had been in contact with Oppo about the possibility of increasing the adjustable audio delay fom 50 ms to something more like 100-120 ms through a firmware upgrade of their DVD player. I was just wondering if you have had any further contact, and how likely this upgrade might be.

Thanks.

2) HDMI inputs cannot be scaled up to fill the screen when program is 4:3

3) Won't do 1920X1080 with a media center PC through VGA. The card is an ATI X300, the whole image either does not fill the screen (approx 1/2) or will fill the screen all the way but only a portion of the screen shows up. The way it displays is dependant on the driver version used. will do 1280X720, looks decent but not impressive.



Those are deal killers for me. I certainly don't want to have to switch from HDMI to component just to watch SD. That is not good.

And ...

I was led to believe that the VGA input would take a 1080p signal. Sounds like it isn't in your case. I see no reason that a Medai Center PC wouldn't take a 1080p input....but maybe it is Microsoft or ATI and not Samsung that is the problem. Hope so.

Interested if others can confirm.

Those are deal killers for me. I certainly don't want to have to switch from HDMI to component just to watch SD. That is not good.

And ...

I was led to believe that the VGA input would take a 1080p signal. Sounds like it isn't in your case. I see no reason that a Medai Center PC wouldn't take a 1080p input....but maybe it is Microsoft or ATI and not Samsung that is the problem. Hope so.

Interested if others can confirm.

I'm not sure that either of those comments is accurate.

Although I haven't had my set long enough to be sure about anything, I think HDMI input can be switched between 16:9 and 4:3 at all resolutions. Zoom modes only work at 480. But I have definitely used the zoom from HDMI input with a 480 sourrce (e.g., 4:3 letterbox material zoomed to cover the screen).

I don't have a PC that will do 1080p output so I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like many other people have reported success.

Try changing the cable. The PC should automatically get the info from the TV for the scan rates. All I did was plug it in and I was able to choose 1920x1080P. It filled the screen without any problems. The first cable I tried apparently wouldn't let the PC communicate with the TV, but as soon as I used a less expensive cable, I had no problems.
The less expensive cable was one that came with an Audio Authority vga to component converter that I used to use with my old HD set a few years ago.

The spec sheets for these sets state "Digital Cable Ready (DCR)" and "NTSC/ATSC". I just want to be sure that this also means that they are QAM capable. i.e. that they can decode cable in-the-clear HD transmissions.

Thanks.

UCSB,

A couple of weeks back you posted that you had been in contact with Oppo about the possibility of increasing the adjustable audio delay fom 50 ms to something more like 100-120 ms through a firmware upgrade of their DVD player. I was just wondering if you have had any further contact, and how likely this upgrade might be.

Thanks.

I was told that increasing the audio delay was elevated to a top priority and would be integrated into a future firmware release. If it is possible to implement, I would hope, based on it's priority, that it to show up in the next firmware release. It certainly would be a great feature.

The spec sheets for these sets state "Digital Cable Ready (DCR)" and "NTSC/ATSC". I just want to be sure that this also means that they are QAM capable. i.e. that they can decode cable in-the-clear HD transmissions.

Thanks.

Yes ... you can view HD channels on internal tuner.

I have hlr1618 for 5 weeks now. For past couple of weeks it started acting up. When I press on/off button it would start (1 out of 5 times) and first lamp sign will keep flashing and then all three indicator lights will flash. 4/5 times it will start normally. It was obvious to be from the trouble shooting section of manual that the lamp might be defective.So I decided to call samsung and they set up service call with local authorized service center. The tv repair guy came with wrong bulb and he could not fit the bulb in (incorrect model) so he calls his boss and tells him that there might be some other problem. So now they picked up the tv and told me that it might take around a week to get back the tv.

I am very disappointed with all that happened. First of all there should not be a problem with 5 weeks old tv. Now if there is a problem as simple as defective bulb - it should have been fixed in the home.

I am with out tv now for 2 days and eagerly waiting to get it back.

Just writing here to releive some of the anger I have for samsung and their AUTHORIZED service center.

PureAV PF60 at e-cost...I love this unit.

Just got one from amazon (dynadirect) for $341.36.

I'm not sure that either of those comments is accurate.

Although I haven't had my set long enough to be sure about anything, I think HDMI input can be switched between 16:9 and 4:3 at all resolutions. Zoom modes only work at 480. But I have definitely used the zoom from HDMI input with a 480 sourrce (e.g., 4:3 letterbox material zoomed to cover the screen).

I don't have a PC that will do 1080p output so I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like many other people have reported success.

Those statements are not correct. I have toggled 4:3 and 16:9 on HDMI inputs. Also have my HTPC running at 1080P.

Just got one from amazon (dynadirect) for $341.36.Congrats :) A wise investment!

Try changing the cable. The PC should automatically get the info from the TV for the scan rates. All I did was plug it in and I was able to choose 1920x1080P. It filled the screen without any problems. The first cable I tried apparently wouldn't let the PC communicate with the TV, but as soon as I used a less expensive cable, I had no problems.
The less expensive cable was one that came with an Audio Authority vga to component converter that I used to use with my old HD set a few years ago.


Same thing happened to me. Trying another VGA cable was the solution for me too and I am now getting the full screen 1920x1080 resolution.

Well, i didnt mess with the resolution yet at all. The tv was on 1080i and the xbox was on default resolution. which im not even sure what that is. This was with no HD Cables.

My question to you though is this. IF these sets do experience such lag, and will continue to do so from what your saying, why in the world is Microsoft teaming up with Samsung to showcase their XBOX 360. Why would a company as big as Microsoft want people to play the games on these sets and experience this delay. If you watched the unveiling of the Xbox 360 on mtv, i believe that had these exact sets, only using the 78 instead of 68 to showoff their games. So, in my mind that is telling the consumer to go buy these tv's if you want the best HD XBOX 360 experience you can get. Which would be totally false... am i wrong ? or will the increased output resolution of the xbox 360 totally eliminate the problems i see on the the normal xbox ?

I may call samsung or tva about this. Cause i want to enjoy my xbox experience, and these sets may not allow for that :( .

My guess is that it was purely a marketing decision by Microsoft to partner with Samsung. To the marketing people, all that matters is that Samsung is a well known HDTV manufacturer that also sells to the same type of customer interested in the Xbox. It is not uncommon for the marketing dept within a major corporation to be completely out of touch with the technical divisions. Or, Microsoft's marketing dept knew about the issue, but felt it wasn't significant enough to scrap the deal with Samsung.

I think that there is a very slim possibility that the delay will improve with the Xbox 360. It is my understanding and my experience that it is the video processing being performed by the HDTV that causes the delay. When you consider that virtually all HDTVs take the input signal and uprez it, deinterlace it and reformat it to the native rez of the set before displaying it, it no wonder the video is delayed. For whatever reason, DLP takes more processing time than other technologies to do this. The only thing that could possibly eliminate the delay is sending the TV a signal in the TV's native resolution and format. In the case of the new Samsungs, that would have to be 1080p. But as you know, the new Samsungs only accept 1080p through the VGA port and the Xbox 360 isn't even capable of 1080p output. Even some game developers find a way to do 1080p though software trickery, the majority of games with be 720p.

I have to say again that I have yet to see ANY HDTV that didn't have video delay (even direct view CRT HDTVs). The only thing you can do is look for one that minimizes the problem.

Anyone have or seen a TV stand for a 56" which has glass and metal shelves or with glass and light wood shelves for $400 or less? I know that is probably too low but I thought there might be an internet site or something around here? I tried TVA and their furniture link wasn't working after trying it a few times. I know there aren't many out there.

According to the 68 series manual, it looks like 1:1 pixel mapping is possible through the D-Sub connector. Check out page 130, "The optimal resolution is 1920 x 1080 @ 60Hz."


Not sure how this would be technically possible as the dmd does not actually have 1920 X 1080 array - it "wobulates" 960 x 1080 - of course the 1920 x 1080 is the "perceived " resolution - but it does look good -


you would need an lcos set to feed a true 1920 x 1080 res to ( new sony 50 & 60 ) do they have a d sub in though?

Just got one from amazon (dynadirect) for $341.36.

For people still thinking about getting one, ordered one from ecost tonight for $290 shipped. You need to add the PF60 to your cart to see the discounted price.

Anyone have or seen a TV stand for a 56" which has glass and metal shelves or with glass and light wood shelves for $400 or less? I know that is probably too low but I thought there might be an internet site or something around here? I tried TVA and their furniture link wasn't working after trying it a few times. I know there aren't many out there.

http://www.racksandstands.com/

Thanks for all the responses to my remote question. Based on everyone's responses, I decided to go get a universal remote. I got the Harmony 880. A bit pissed off with it, and had no response from their support, but hey, thats another forum I'm sure. It does (basically) work, and now I don't have to keep pushing "Source" on the Samy remote. Wife very happy. Thanks all!

Thanks for the support. I found the local HD channels and during prime time it looks very nice. Even the SD stuff looks pretty good studio upconverted to HD.

Changing the DVD settings and dropping sharpness to zero helped the picture some.

Unfortunately my wife is still pretty disappointed. She does digital photography and the 5078 just doesn't measure up to her dual color calibrated monitors. But maybe she'll get used to it. Right now she is pushing pretty hard to drop down to a 34" HD CRT (XBR960).

On the remote issue, I'm using a harmony 680. Works pretty well but the harmony database for the 5078 discrete codes is a real mess. I called customer support with all the non-working, mislabeled, freshly learned, and duplicate codes clearly identified in my account. But the guy essentially said: "glad you figured it out, goodbye"

I've updated my OPPO review in POST #4 to include this additional item under Nice Features:

9. The OPPO has without a doubt one of the nicest convenience features I have ever seen ... when you put a DVD in the unit, a message comes up on the screen saying loading ... when that message changed to DVD-video, press menu and you skip ahead to the DVD's main menu!!!!! You don't have to sit through all warnings and other filler that can take forever to get through. Thank you OPPO!

Thanks Bill. Funny how their brick and mortar store is just minutes from me in Boston.

Sounds like you need the tv calibrated to have a happy home :)

I recommend Eliab from www.avical.com but there are others on this thread. Search this thread for the word calibration.

There might be local ones in your area, just make sure you get a recommendation.


Unfortunately my wife is still pretty disappointed. She does digital photography and the 5078 just doesn't measure up to her dual color calibrated monitors. But maybe she'll get used to it. Right now she is pushing pretty hard to drop down to a 34" HD CRT (XBR960).

Ddunn, can't the DLP's be color calibrated like the CRT's? Sony is now even making professional LCD's for broadcast video production and Apple of course has those awesome LCD's for photography and video. I understand what you mean that nothing compares to a professional CRT but that is eroding quickly. Are you saying that you have connected your computer to the Sammy with a 1080p video card and she doesn't like it or when watching TV you mean?

Had the cablecard installed yesterday by cablevision on LI. After talking about what I was losing with cablecard, the installer told me that sd pq is superior and midband is also better but hd is pretty much the same (ok guys my comments are always more real world than quantitative).
My side by side test with my still installed sa8300hd live picture suggests that he is correct especially with the sd pq; I think that this may be the way to go for sd pq - you also get to use the remote for the family for casual viewing this way.

CONS- Tier1 & 2 support at samsung is absolutely pitiful; they never know anything and always try to pass the buck! I have setup tvguide with settings as rfcable with no cable box and after a night of the tv off as instructed there is still no data in tvguide. And of course samsung nonsupport tells me to call my cable provider (we know nothing). Anyone get TVguide to work, especially with cablecard? TVguide info would really be helpful in weaning everyone off the cablebox.

Mits52627. Walking thru PCRichards yesterday in Plainview, I saw what I can only describe as this butt ugly looking tv - and the picture is poor to my eyes too.
First, Mitsubishi seems to somehow design these things so that they are absoutely the geekiest (not to say that there is anything wrong with being a geek, folks - but do you want stuff in the den that looks geeky...) look possible; dont they have any consumer design people??? As with their 720p series the design is soo cluttered and plastic-y; I cant imagine that (m)any people would choose this side by side (forgetting for the moment about pq, etc) over the sleekly designed any version of samsung?
Picture; clearly wasnt setup well but neither were the samsung x68 next to them and the samsung clearly was a better picture. So, whew... no regret here in not waiting for the mits.

I've updated my OPPO review in POST #4 to include this additional item under Nice Features:

9. The OPPO has without a doubt one of the nicest convenience features I have ever seen ... when you put a DVD in the unit, a message comes up on the screen saying loading ... when that message changed to DVD-video, press menu and you skip ahead to the DVD's main menu!!!!! You don't have to sit through all warnings and other filler that can take forever to get through. Thank you OPPO!Thanks Bill...Very cool feature!

I bought the 5678 and like it but now I hear that TV Authority has a power buy for a lot less on the 5668. Is TV Authority a good place to deal with and is the 68 and 78 the same TV or is there any real performance differences? Thanks in Advance, Jim

Fletch, today is that last day for the PB on the 78, don't know about the 68. Check out the Samsung site for details on the two. They are both the same but the form factor case is a little different style. The 68 has a "floating" appearance between the screen and the base. I think people "know" it isn't floating so I don't see the point, unless the 68 is much less? It depends which one you like more. TVA is awesome. People here have had problems with the sets and their service sounds excellent. I'm ordering my 5678 soon if I can find a stand for it.

Same thing happened to me. Trying another VGA cable was the solution for me too and I am now getting the full screen 1920x1080 resolution.

I am wondering if this is my issue as well. My video card driver keeps telling me it can't retrieve any information about my monitor when connected to the TV. As an additional question: My video card has a DVI connector on it. If I set my driver up correctly would it work with a DVI to HDMI cable?

My wife signed for my TV Thursday evening and she was so excite she was calling people before it was ever turened on. I have 6768, antenna, Oppo and directv is bringing my H10-250 tomorrow. Old Direct TV connected S-Video.

I am very pleased so far the few HD shows I have seen OTA and the football game last night were awsome. My wife is loving it. The SD varies by channel but overall I am pleased.

Was playing with the Oppo and thanks to all of you I noticed the audio through the AVR was definately out of sync. I at first thought the picture was fuzzy and not to sharp but fixed that by putting on my glasses. Am glad I spent the extra bucks on the 67".

I saw a 62" Mitsubishi at Sears yesterday and the picture was very bright and it stood out from the TVs around it A 720P Sammy and a Mit LCD. They are probably simular to the Samsungs when they are set up in the home. Did not like the appearance of the set however.

Well need to decide if I need a felston or need to replace my 6 year old receiver.

I agree.

This avoids having to get and program an expensive remote. The Denon 3803 also allows individual audio delay for each input.

Eric Stahlfeld
Seattle

Sorry, folks, for my belated reply. I've been sifting through many pages.

If you use your receiver to switch inputs, you implicitly assume that all your inputs will behave exactly the same and will require the exact same calibration on the TV end. What makes you think so? For example, why do you think that your set-top box and DVD player will behave identically? My impression is that you will want different settings for watching TV versus watching DVDs. If you use separate inputs on the TV, you can calibrate them differently. Using your receiver to switch inputs is certainly convenient but it is a bad idea if you care about picture quality.

Looking to order my 56778 right now at TVA. What is the best overall extended warranty plan to get? That is I guess includes the bulb replacement and so on? Which one had the best value based on coverage, price, and terms? Thanks

RichNY,

I also had my CableCard installed this week. It works quite well and I am happy with the picture quality and for most channels I feel it looks the same or better than with the sa8300hd. I had issues with the TV Guide as well, I called Samsung where the technician bluntly said it will not work without an OTA antenna because Cablevison strips the signal out of the channels. I was annoyed, upset and skeptic, but nevertheless tried the suggestion and 8 hours after the TV asked for channel lineup and voila it worked.

But not everything is happiness... Now, after being off for a few hours, or overnight, the TV loses the channel lineup of the cablecard and I get "No Signal" message that requires me to reset the card and download the channel lineup again. I guess this is because the TV switches to the antenna to download the guide. Even if I feel (honestly for no real reason) like watching OTA Digital channels, switching to the antenna input and back screws up the cable card lineup.

I have been looking in other forums without much luck (a lot of people has theories but no real experience). If someone has tried a cable card and OTA combination I will love to hear from their experiences. Samsung and cablevision point at each other and so far I do not know if this is a design flaw, a problem with the equipment or if what I am trying to do is so weird that I should give up.

Thanks I am glad I googled this forum.

Well the new light engine solved the geometry problems but of course brought in new ones. Now the picture is over driven in greens (I adjusted the color some but still off) and its fuzzier and has a lot of digital noise as well as MB. If we had not seen the other one then maybe we would have not minded it, but the damage has been done.

The wife wants the old tilted LE back and I have to agree with her. :-(

If you use your receiver to switch inputs, you implicitly assume that all your inputs will behave exactly the same and will require the exact same calibration on the TV end. What makes you think so? For example, why do you think that your set-top box and DVD player will behave identically? My impression is that you will want different settings for watching TV versus watching DVDs. If you use separate inputs on the TV, you can calibrate them differently. Using your receiver to switch inputs is certainly convenient but it is a bad idea if you care about picture quality.

As the poster who started this, I'm still considering the trade-off -- convenience versus possible picture quality issues.

The convenience is being able to go directly to a new source, rather than scrolling through the source menu, waiting after each press to get the picture (to avoid lip sync issues), and then changing the input on the AV receiver so the sound matches the picture.

The picture quality is a possible issue. As JimP also posted (#2653) one "consideration about using your Denon receiver to switch your DVD player and D*Tivo is how close together in terms of calibration the two components are."

So far as I can tell, these two are pretty close, so that other factors make a much greater difference. For example, the ambient light during the day is sufficient that I prefer the brighter standard picture setting to the movie setting, but at night I sometimes select the darker picture settings. The D*Tivo is not HD, and the fuzziness lowers the overall picture quality more than any change in picture settings can compensate. I also sometimes want to change settings depending on how a DVD is displayed by the Denon 2800II DVD player, because the DVD's seem to vary.

So if I'm changing the basic picture settings anyway, and the individual settings don't seem to make that much difference between the DVD and D*Tivo, I'm still inclined to use the Denon 3803 receiver to switch inputs.

Others who use many more inputs with different calibrations may differ. I'm only inputting DVD, D*Tivo, basic cable and OTA, and for the last two I do have to use the 6168's remote. This can be pretty confusing for the family, particularly if they have to remember to change the 3803's audio input to match the picture.

Of course, the other option is to spend $$ to get another remote. Given that I completely fail to understand anything of UCSB's "easy" instructions :) that option is daunting!

And adding another DVD player (why doesn't the Sony 975 come in black?) (and why can't UCSB tell us that the Sony or the Oppo or the Panny is vastly superior to the others?) that can connect to the HDMI input might change this as well!

Eric Stahlfeld
Seattle

Of course, the other option is to spend $$ to get another remote. Given that I completely fail to understand anything of UCSB's "easy" instructions :) that option is daunting! Eric Stahlfeld
Seattle

Eric ... absolutely get another remote. But, I hope my prior post did not mislead you. It was for a Pronto TSU3000 or TSU7000. These remotes are not for everyone. You can create completely custom control layouts right down to the buttons and screen layouts to control your equipment. BUT, this work is done on a computer and requires expertise, planning, design, and testing. Also, it can be time consuming. You can use the Pronto's premade templates, but if you want a custom design, plan on investing a minimum of 20 to 40 hours (possibly more). Most people are not going to want to invest this level of effort. Beyond that, generating your own codes takes the process to another level. I don't own a Harmony remote, but I think the Harmony remote is a good choice for most people.

If anyone wants to see if the Pronto remote is for them they can go to remotecentral.com and download ProntoEdit from the files area. This is the Philips software used to build layouts. Then download some sample files and play around with the the software. The software has an emulator so you can actually run your creations. If you like what you are producing, then consider buying the remote.

On my old analog TV I used the av receiver to switch imputs. I used the Harmony 659 remote and it worked great. On my 5668 I use the inputs on the tv and the harmony remote changes all the inputs for me. I do not have any difference in ease of use by going directly to tv. I always thought that hooking up directly would be the best connection so why not use it.

On the harmony remote I just push either watch tv or watch dvd and the remote controlls everything. It's easy. I love it.

Anyone have or seen a TV stand for a 56" which has glass and metal shelves or with glass and light wood shelves for $400 or less? I know that is probably too low but I thought there might be an internet site or something around here? I tried TVA and their furniture link wasn't working after trying it a few times. I know there aren't many out there.

I picked up an OmniMount G363 for my 61" for a little less than $400 from a local store (Abt). It looks very similar to this (http://www.omnimount.com/product.asp?p=129) but mine has three shelves and is black. Black metal frame, and all the shelves are tempered glass.

Hello Everyone.

I have to announce that I am not getting a Samsung DLP now. I know, I know, I've been here from the beginning and more and more excited each day but I had a discusssion / visit with my installer today that changed my mind.

The Samsung 1080p DLP's are not being introduced into Canada until November or December; why you ask? Well apparently Samsung has too much stock of the older model TV's in Canada and wants to sell them off first, yet they're not reducing prices much if at all from what I can tell.

My Installer came back today and took a look at my space, he absolutely loved it, complimented my speakers (Axiom's) my equipment stand (Studiotech) and my remote control (Home Theater Master MX-850). He measured my room and told me he could fit a 82" 16:9 screen in here. Being visually impaired a bigger picture is always intriguing. We conversed a bit about projectors and said for the price range I'm looking at (all the money I had saved for the DLP) I could get a very sweet setup.

I've been waiting for quite some time now to get away from my 24" 4:3 TV, and sitting near it to see it the way I do is actually hurting my back (because I'm just sitting in my desk chair with my feet up). So I think I going to go with the big screen and a swanky Runco projector.

Cheers to everyone and good luck with your Sammys! If you need any pictures hosted I can throw them up into the gallery I already host for this group.

I'm not leaving AVS or anything so don't worry I'll be back! And who knows if I decide to go with the Sammy after all I'll be here whining and waiting :)

- D

. So I think I going to go with the big screen and a swanky Runco projector. - D


Very intriguing. I'm going for a 71" or 73" dlp, so not far from your 84" screen. Any specifics on your FP?

Hi everyone!

I am getting ready to order my HLR 6168 (yeah - finally!). I have 2 questions which I can't find definitive answers for after searching through the thread:

1) Is the Samsung stand (TR61X2) good enough? I have to be able to fit an AVR, DVD player, Tape deck (yes, I still have that! ;)), VCR, Comcast HD-DVR. Will this stand cut it? Any other options out there? Can I simply lay the Center Channel on the floor in front of the TV??

2) Whats the final word on Extended warranties? Where do I get one? I am not going to buy the TV from TVA - so their extended warranty doesn't include the lamp and screen. Any other companies offering an extended warranty that includes these 2 items?

Thanks folks!

Wish, check out the style of Bush at Worst Buy Mag. and hate to say it Walmart.com. Those are two models in the price range or less. I couldn't believe it. The other thing is the shelves are bigger than than the Sammy. I was close to going the Sammy route until I looked into it some more. I too am holding an order until I hear about which extended to get?

Anyone opt for the warranty bundle that TV Auhority is offering. Cost about the same as other places, covers the bulb and screen. I always thought these were a waste of money but this is an expensive tv. Hmmm.....

Anyone opt for the warranty bundle that TV Auhority is offering. Cost about the same as other places, covers the bulb and screen. I always thought these were a waste of money but this is an expensive tv. Hmmm.....

I was thinking about what to choose as well and just ended up getting the bundle to cover everything. Especially considering what I've been reading in this thread... I have a feeling we'll actually USE this extended warranty quite a bit. :rolleyes:

UCSB or anyone - should "we" wait for resolution of the brightness/dynamic range problem before having a set calibrated?

Anybody else notice any blotches on skin tones, like faces arms. I noticed this two nights ago while watching Hack in HD? Never seen it on DVD (yet) so would that imply its a source problem rather than the TV?

Thanks,
Carl

Had the cablecard installed yesterday by cablevision on LI. After talking about what I was losing with cablecard, the installer told me that sd pq is superior and midband is also better but hd is pretty much the same (ok guys my comments are always more real world than quantitative).
My side by side test with my still installed sa8300hd live picture suggests that he is correct especially with the sd pq; I think that this may be the way to go for sd pq - you also get to use the remote for the family for casual viewing this way.

CONS- Tier1 & 2 support at samsung is absolutely pitiful; they never know anything and always try to pass the buck! I have setup tvguide with settings as rfcable with no cable box and after a night of the tv off as instructed there is still no data in tvguide. And of course samsung nonsupport tells me to call my cable provider (we know nothing). Anyone get TVguide to work, especially with cablecard? TVguide info would really be helpful in weaning everyone off the cablebox.

Mits52627. Walking thru PCRichards yesterday in Plainview, I saw what I can only describe as this butt ugly looking tv - and the picture is poor to my eyes too.
First, Mitsubishi seems to somehow design these things so that they are absoutely the geekiest (not to say that there is anything wrong with being a geek, folks - but do you want stuff in the den that looks geeky...) look possible; dont they have any consumer design people??? As with their 720p series the design is soo cluttered and plastic-y; I cant imagine that (m)any people would choose this side by side (forgetting for the moment about pq, etc) over the sleekly designed any version of samsung?
Picture; clearly wasnt setup well but neither were the samsung x68 next to them and the samsung clearly was a better picture. So, whew... no regret here in not waiting for the mits.


Rich please excuse my ignorance, but the picture quality is better on SD with Cablevision thru the TV tuner or the cable box or both?

Thanks,
Carl

UCSB or anyone - should "we" wait for resolution of the brightness/dynamic range problem before having a set calibrated?

Anybody else notice any blotches on skin tones, like faces arms. I noticed this two nights ago while watching Hack in HD? Never seen it on DVD (yet) so would that imply its a source problem rather than the TV?

Thanks,
Carl

After making sure all connections are secure, try re booting your STB. full power off give it a couple minutes , power on, wait a few minutes. Ive had problems where I would swear it was the display , but re booting the STB seems to perform miracles.

Calbert, I think the issue here is that some are considering connecting their sets via UPS to save the bulb. That was my understanding. I don't have my 5678 Sammy yet, but when I do I and others like yourself can confirm, I don't think the manual will mention UPS? I called Sammy tech. support a few weeks ago and the rep I spoke with said a UPS is not necessary, however if you use one it must be Pure Sine. I guess the way you mentioned it sounds like this is discussed often elsewhere. I guess I don't understand why people either disagree or pay no attention to the facts? A UPS works differently than a Pure Sine UPS. If anything no one should use a Modified standard UPS and only use a Pure Sine for everything since the electricity is the same in a Pure Sine as from the wall and a standard UPS is not.

Although the message is from a while back, I would like to step in because you are spreading this conjecture as it were the absolute truth. Pray tell where you found the proof for your claim? Who ever said that DLP, LCD, LCoS sets require power conditioning? Who ever said that a conventional "dirty" UPS will damage these sets and through what mechanism? Who ever said that if one were to use a UPS it MUST be Pure Sine? Do you have any facts to corroborate these claims? Do any manufacturers state explicitly that their sets require power conditioning or that only a Pure Sine UPS should be used if one is keen on using a UPS? Have you ever heard or read anywhere that a TV got damaged because of lack of power conditioning or use of improper UPS?

Who is making power conditioners and Pure Sine UPS devices? Certainly not a single TV manufacturer. It's the likes of Monster Cable, PS Audio, etc. that are charging enormous amounts of money for these devices. I have no problems if you buy one; however, please don't claim so vociferously on this forum that they are required or talk about TV damage from regular UPS if you have no proof. Thank you for your understanding.

Ddunn, can't the DLP's be color calibrated like the CRT's? Sony is now even making professional LCD's for broadcast video production and Apple of course has those awesome LCD's for photography and video. I understand what you mean that nothing compares to a professional CRT but that is eroding quickly. Are you saying that you have connected your computer to the Sammy with a 1080p video card and she doesn't like it or when watching TV you mean?

They can be calibrated (which may be necessary) and she is complaining about TV.

I'm just saying that she is spoiled from using pro grade 21" CRT monitors. So when upgrading from a 27" cheap TV to a 50" HDTV, she expected miracles.

Suddenly it was very easy for her to see SD flaws in the analog. Then we found some SD digital stations and she immediately noticed the compression artifacts. And she picks up on the compression artifacts on HD during motion (even from the kitchen 20' away).

So she has reverted back to the argument that a 34" CRT would work fine. Essentially an argument that making lousy source large is worse than keeping it small. That's all. Nothing Samsung or anyone on this forum can do about it. :(

I bet she would like it better with diamond earrings. : )

They can be calibrated (which may be necessary) and she is complaining about TV.

I'm just saying that she is spoiled from using pro grade 21" CRT monitors. So when upgrading from a 27" cheap TV to a 50" HDTV, she expected miracles.

Suddenly it was very easy for her to see SD flaws in the analog. Then we found some SD digital stations and she immediately noticed the compression artifacts. And she picks up on the compression artifacts on HD during motion (even from the kitchen 20' away).

So she has reverted back to the argument that a 34" CRT would work fine. Essentially an argument that making lousy source large is worse than keeping it small. That's all. Nothing Samsung or anyone on this forum can do about it. :(

This is the kind of post that makes me wanna go 56" v/s 61". :(

Are you using Cable? I will be using Comcast Digital - but many of the most watched channels (CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, A&E etc) are in Analog.

Any idea when they are all going to go Digital?

I use a HTPC for all of my DVR/DVD needs. With it hooked up to the VGA port, I have never noticed any lip-sync issues (that were not in the source). This makes sense, since the PC is doing all the scaling, and takes care of sending the audio out in sync with the video.

I have also never seen any macroblocking watching any DVD. Including Star Wars II. Image quality is phenomenal!

Setting up a HTPC can be a lot of work. It can also cost a fair amount. At this point I would not want to do it any other way. I highly recommend using a HTPC to drive these TVs. Well worth the cost. Well worth the time.

John

Amen! HTPC is the way to go. I couldn't be happier with my HLR-6168W. But, but I don't have a set-top box nor will I ever get one. I may get a CableCARD if I get bored with channels I get so far. Yes, I could care less about On-Demand Video or other premium stuff that I will not be getting. My Comcast cable is split and one wire fed directly into TV while the other goes into the TV tuner card of my MCE box. I get all my channels (SD and HD) using the built-in Samsung TV tuner, and the picture on INHD, INHD2, PBS, and couple of other channels is simply amazing. Lip synch? What lip synch? I watched plenty of fast moving action on TV, and there are no blocking issues, artifacts, etc. It's just a stunning, mesmerizing picture.

My MCE box has MSI 6600GT card with latest MCE-branded nVidia driver. I also use the latest nVidia PureVideo decoder. When I played Fifth Element after getting the TV, I had to hold on to my socks. I have no intention of buying a DVD player since the picture I am getting makes me so happy. My video card ouputs 1080p directly to the TV via the VGA input and the audio goes into my receiver. Lip synch? What lip synch?

The cost of HTPC is actually very modest considering what you get. The part that we are discussing here (DVD portion) cost me a total of $250. A Samsung DVD-ROM for $30, nVidia PureVideo decoder for $20, and MSI 6600GT card (that has one of the quietest fans) was $200. And the picture is simply remarkable.

I am also using my MCE box to play home movies made with my Sony DVD403 camera. They look great on the big screen. I have 1080p clips in WMV-HD from Microsoft's site, and they look like film. It is simply uncanny.

I understand that my set-up is very different from what the majority of people are using, and perhaps this is the reason for me being so happy with my TV. I truly symphatize with AkaStp given how much hassle he's been through already (just catching up with all the posts). AkaStp, perhaps the 50-in diagonal will not make your 1080p set noticeably better than a 720p set? Perhaps, you'd be just as happy (if not happier if you could solve lip synch issues) with a 720p set.

A lot of people have complained about their sets, and many have exchanged them already, some of them more than once. We need to remember that many people posting on this forum are perfectionists, and will not be satisfied with even the slightest imperfections especially if they paid $4k for a TV. I hear you, and understand the frustration you've experienced after waiting so long. However, I would imagine that ordinary people buying these sets will not notice half of the issues we discuss here. They are just raving about picture quality.

But how about the Comcast Analog and channels? How do they look? What is your viewing distance?

thanks!

Amen! HTPC is the way to go. I couldn't be happier with my HLR-6168W. But, but I don't have a set-top box nor will I ever get one. I may get a CableCARD if I get bored with channels I get so far. Yes, I could care less about On-Demand Video or other premium stuff that I will not be getting. My Comcast cable is split and one wire fed directly into TV while the other goes into the TV tuner card of my MCE box. I get all my channels (SD and HD) using the built-in Samsung TV tuner, and the picture on INHD, INHD2, PBS, and couple of other channels is simply amazing. Lip synch? What lip synch? I watched plenty of fast moving action on TV, and there are no blocking issues, artifacts, etc. It's just a stunning, mesmerizing picture.

My MCE box has MSI 6600GT card with latest MCE-branded nVidia driver. I also use the latest nVidia PureVideo decoder. When I played Fifth Element after getting the TV, I had to hold on to my socks. I have no intention of buying a DVD player since the picture I am getting makes me so happy. My video card ouputs 1080p directly to the TV via the VGA input and the audio goes into my receiver. Lip synch? What lip synch?

The cost of HTPC is actually very modest considering what you get. The part that we are discussing here (DVD portion) cost me a total of $250. A Samsung DVD-ROM for $30, nVidia PureVideo decoder for $20, and MSI 6600GT card (that has one of the quietest fans) was $200. And the picture is simply remarkable.

I am also using my MCE box to play home movies made with my Sony DVD403 camera. They look great on the big screen. I have 1080p clips in WMV-HD from Microsoft's site, and they look like film. It is simply uncanny.

I understand that my set-up is very different from what the majority of people are using, and perhaps this is the reason for me being so happy with my TV. I truly symphatize with AkaStp given how much hassle he's been through already (just catching up with all the posts). AkaStp, perhaps the 50-in diagonal will not make your 1080p set noticeably better than a 720p set? Perhaps, you'd be just as happy (if not happier if you could solve lip synch issues) with a 720p set.

A lot of people have complained about their sets, and many have exchanged them already, some of them more than once. We need to remember that many people posting on this forum are perfectionists, and will not be satisfied with even the slightest imperfections especially if they paid $4k for a TV. I hear you, and understand the frustration you've experienced after waiting so long. However, I would imagine that ordinary people buying these sets will not notice half of the issues we discuss here. They are just raving about picture quality.

Has anyone looked at the Bello AVS-622T TV stand for the 67" Samsung?

Hmm... Not allowed to post a link as this is my first post, but it should be easy to find.

It looks like the HLR6768 would fit nicely on it.

It also looks remarkably similar to the Drayton TV stand on the buyentertainmentcenters website.


Just wondering if anyone has this stand, and what they think of it.

Thanks

Well the new light engine solved the geometry problems but of course brought in new ones. Now the picture is over driven in greens (I adjusted the color some but still off) and its fuzzier and has a lot of digital noise as well as MB. If we had not seen the other one then maybe we would have not minded it, but the damage has been done.

The wife wants the old tilted LE back and I have to agree with her. :-(

Hmmm... I wonder if, after replacing the light engine, the technician was supposed to adjust the Index Delay in the SM. That's the adjustment that synchronizes the color wheel delay to the light engine. Seems like a replacement of either item would require this adjustment.

Not sure, but it sounds like your issue is similar to the one Clorox had and was solved by fromstart's post # 3269 in this thread.

You could try it if you're comfortable with the SM changes. Just remember to record the settings before changing anything.

Well the new light engine solved the geometry problems but of course brought in new ones. Now the picture is over driven in greens (I adjusted the color some but still off) and its fuzzier and has a lot of digital noise as well as MB. If we had not seen the other one then maybe we would have not minded it, but the damage has been done.

The wife wants the old tilted LE back and I have to agree with her. :-(
ccouper, very sorry to hear. It sounds like a bad digital board. Is the light engine and DMD one assembly? If so, then the digital board is on the DMD from what my tech told me.

Hang in there - being an early adopter has it's challenges :(
Geo

Amen! HTPC is the way to go. I couldn't be happier with my HLR-6168W. But, but I don't have a set-top box nor will I ever get one. I may get a CableCARD if I get bored with channels I get so far. Yes, I could care less about On-Demand Video or other premium stuff that I will not be getting. My Comcast cable is split and one wire fed directly into TV while the other goes into the TV tuner card of my MCE box. I get all my channels (SD and HD) using the built-in Samsung TV tuner, and the picture on INHD, INHD2, PBS, and couple of other channels is simply amazing. Lip synch? What lip synch? I watched plenty of fast moving action on TV, and there are no blocking issues, artifacts, etc. It's just a stunning, mesmerizing picture.

My MCE box has MSI 6600GT card with latest MCE-branded nVidia driver. I also use the latest nVidia PureVideo decoder. When I played Fifth Element after getting the TV, I had to hold on to my socks. I have no intention of buying a DVD player since the picture I am getting makes me so happy. My video card ouputs 1080p directly to the TV via the VGA input and the audio goes into my receiver. Lip synch? What lip synch?

The cost of HTPC is actually very modest considering what you get. The part that we are discussing here (DVD portion) cost me a total of $250. A Samsung DVD-ROM for $30, nVidia PureVideo decoder for $20, and MSI 6600GT card (that has one of the quietest fans) was $200. And the picture is simply remarkable.

I am also using my MCE box to play home movies made with my Sony DVD403 camera. They look great on the big screen. I have 1080p clips in WMV-HD from Microsoft's site, and they look like film. It is simply uncanny.

I understand that my set-up is very different from what the majority of people are using, and perhaps this is the reason for me being so happy with my TV. I truly symphatize with AkaStp given how much hassle he's been through already (just catching up with all the posts). AkaStp, perhaps the 50-in diagonal will not make your 1080p set noticeably better than a 720p set? Perhaps, you'd be just as happy (if not happier if you could solve lip synch issues) with a 720p set.

A lot of people have complained about their sets, and many have exchanged them already, some of them more than once. We need to remember that many people posting on this forum are perfectionists, and will not be satisfied with even the slightest imperfections especially if they paid $4k for a TV. I hear you, and understand the frustration you've experienced after waiting so long. However, I would imagine that ordinary people buying these sets will not notice half of the issues we discuss here. They are just raving about picture quality.

That is the way I went.Bought a Gateway 835GM Media Center 2005.Only because my other puter quit working probably due to reading to many threads hehehe. I am very impressed with the dvd playback.No lip sync through the avr or MB.It was a good mistake, on my part,buying this.

It sounds like a bad digital board.The digital board is separate from the light engine. Trying what Pumbaa 56 suggested is a good idea. It's simple to do.

Hi everyone!

I am getting ready to order my HLR 6168 (yeah - finally!). I have 2 questions which I can't find definitive answers for after searching through the thread:

1) Is the Samsung stand (TR61X2) good enough? I have to be able to fit an AVR, DVD player, Tape deck (yes, I still have that! ;)), VCR, Comcast HD-DVR. Will this stand cut it? Any other options out there? Can I simply lay the Center Channel on the floor in front of the TV??

2) Whats the final word on Extended warranties? Where do I get one? I am not going to buy the TV from TVA - so their extended warranty doesn't include the lamp and screen. Any other companies offering an extended warranty that includes these 2 items?

Thanks folks!

I ordered the 6768 from my local Tweeter, who matched the TVA price. It will be about 10 days before it gets here. In the meantime I bought the Bello AVS-2601 which is a perfect match for the 61x8 or the 6768. It has two equipment shelves with enough room and weight capacity to handle my big Yamaha AVR, a separate equalizer, DVD Player, HD DTV receiver, and a Polk center speaker. I have two slots left over for future HTPC and whathever. It's absolutely perfect, but expensive. $748 list but found mine at Tweeter for $488. It was a floor model. Believe me, it puts to shame any of the Samsung stands. As soon as the TV gets here I'll post some pictures.

When in the SM, how do you get it to save the settings after you change them? Like the Noise Reduction and the X/Y sharpness. When you change those values, what do you need to hit for it to remember the changes?

When in the SM, how do you get it to save the settings after you change them? Like the Noise Reduction and the X/Y sharpness. When you change those values, what do you need to hit for it to remember the changes?Just power off the TV and wait for it's fans to stop and you have saved your changes. Remember that you will have to reset your User Menu values because they will revert to "default" values every time you exit the SM.

Caution!

I would like to add to this comment ... the average owner should probably not be in the service menu. If you are an extremely careful person that has the patience to document everything before you touch anything ... than maybe. There is no reset function. If you make a change, it is changed. If you don't record your starting point and make changes you may be impacting a number of other parameters. In addition, there is a strong possiblity that your set may have unique settings ... so if you mess it up you will not be able to just ask another forum member for the answer. Some settings need to be changed is a certain order and using a process. If you are unaware of the correct procedure, you will degrade the performance of your TV. You will need to hire a professional to recalibrate your TV if you are unhappy or unsure about how it is performing.

New information for HLR owners.

Originally posted by millerwill
BTW, it is not longer necessary to enter the Service menu to find out what firmware version you have. You can go to Function Help (pg 84 of the manual), set it to on and then press Info. Or you can get it and other diagnostic info as follows:

Mute-1-8-4-Exit will display screen 1 of Diagnostic Status
Mute-1-8-5-Exit will display screen 2 of Diagnostic Status
Mute-1-8-6-Exit will display screen 3 of Diagnostic Status

I got this directly from Samsung tech support, and it works.


Originally posted by millerwill
htwaits: Is it possible for you to give a step-by-step 'idiot proof' protocol for going into the SM and making this gamma change? I've never been into the SM and have always been nervous about the idea. But you sound like it's worth it. (Have a 6163.)
Can one idiot protect other idiots? ;)

Here are the "enter-SM" instructions for the HLN sets. They are the same for a HLP set but the contents of the SM and navigation keys are different. I haven't checked all the navigation instructions myself.

Find Samsung Firmware Version:

The firmware version installed on any set is recorded on the first page of the SM. There is a long ID number at the bottom of the page. The last three digits (HLN) or last four digits (HLP) are the firmware version of your set.

Remember that in any dealing with Samsung you are not supposed to know your firmware version.

Record your User Settings for "Picture" before you enter the SM. The HLP sets will revert to factory defaults for the UM when you exit the SM.

Instructions for accessing the Samsung Service Menu:

Anyone using these suggestions should know that the only change I have ever made to the SM is changing GAMMA from the default value to zero. I have never "messed around" in the SM. Remember that there is no reset function. If you see something that looks like one don't use it.

I can recommend, without any reservations, recording all original SM settings before making additional changes.

****** Thanks to LCH. 09/02/2003 ******

Turn Melody off in the user menu (allows entering the Service Menu from power On state without using a lamp cycle).

With the set ON, press Power-Mute-1-8-2-Power in quick succession.
(If the set is already off, just do Mute-1-8-2-Power )

The service menu should appear for the input you were viewing before keying the above sequence. Be sure to give the set enough time to complete the process(30-60 seconds).

While in the service menu, you can change inputs with the TV/Video button to view the SM for other modes.

Use the CH up, CH down & select keys to navigate the Service Menu. Press MENU to return to the main Service Menu after viewing individual functions.

Later, you will use the VOL(+) & VOL(-) keys to change the SM values.

" ... when you access the SM on the HLPxx63 (probably all HLP models), the directional arrows around the "Enter" button control navigation, not the volume and channel buttons ..." MacGyver1970.

To Exit the SM, power off. Leave it off for several(30) seconds. (until all cooling activity is complete)

Example steps to change GAMMA on a HLP5063 with firmware version 1011 and a build date of May 2004:

The SM main menu looks like this.

1. DDP1011 (The GAMMA setting is here.)
2. GM1601
3. DNIe
4. FLI2310
5. CXA2171
6. Vsp9437
7. Upd 64083
8. CCA
9. SP Actuator
10. OPTION (The tally of hours of lamp operation is in this menu.)

Ver: T_ATLNUS_1011 (this is the firmware version)

First record user menu entries for "picture" and enter SM.

Steps from the main SM.

1. Select DDP1011 using the directional arrow keys -- up and down.
2. Enter DDP1011. I used the right arrow key but maybe the "enter" key will work too.
3. Select GAMMA using the up or down arrow key.
4. I entered GAMMA using the right arrow key, but the "enter" key may also work.
5. I used the right and left arrow keys to change the value of GAMMA.
6. I used the up arrow key to return to the DDP1011 menu. Again, the "enter" key or "menu" key might do the same thing.
7. I returned to the main SM with the "menu" key.
8. Power off and wait for a full shut down to save entries that you have changed in the SM.

9. Power on after about 30 seconds and enter your user menu picture settings.

This change to GAMMA makes "some" owners happy. I feel that after setting GAMMA to zero and setting brightness with the DVE DVD that the details in dark scenes were improved. To really get the most out of our set I am getting an ISF calibration done by SethS.

As of 12/14/2004:
Mode = Cinema
contrast = 90
brightness = 45
sharpness = 0
color = 48
Digital NR = OFF
DNIe = OFF

Enjoy.

It still won't remember those settings.

Just received and hooked up my 6178. Connected my Oppo to HDMI2, and get "mode not supported" message....Can anyone help me with this?

Hmmm... I wonder if, after replacing the light engine, the technician was supposed to adjust the Index Delay in the SM. That's the adjustment that synchronizes the color wheel delay to the light engine. Seems like a replacement of either item would require this adjustment.

Not sure, but it sounds like your issue is similar to the one Clorox had and was solved by fromstart's post # 3269 in this thread.

You could try it if you're comfortable with the SM changes. Just remember to record the settings before changing anything.
I did glance at it when he installed the LE and it was set to 51. I guess I will have to ask SS if putting in a new LE means adjusting the Index Delay. I did not watch him the hole time so maybe he did set it or maybe not.

Just received and hooked up my 6178. Connected my Oppo to HDMI2, and get "mode not supported" message....Can anyone help me with this?

Make sure that you are on the latest firmware.

The 6768 (and the yet to appear 7178) have lamps listed as 120/132 watts. I presume that the output of the lamp changes automatically when one choose 'Cinema', 'Standard', or 'Dynamic' etc. mode. Is that correct? If so, what is the output in 'Standard' mode? (It would presumably be the higher output for 'Dynamic' and the lower output for 'Cinema'.)

Make sure that you are on the latest firmware.

Oppo version: OP971-8-0628

Just received and hooked up my 6178. Connected my Oppo to HDMI2, and get "mode not supported" message....Can anyone help me with this?

You might try pushing the DVI button on the bottom left. You must make sure the player is in stopped first.

You might try pushing the DVI button on the bottom left. You must make sure the player is in stopped first.

Thanks....that did it. I was pushing it will it was playing

Scott

When in the SM, how do you get it to save the settings after you change them? Like the Noise Reduction and the X/Y sharpness. When you change those values, what do you need to hit for it to remember the changes?Sorry. Others have pointed that out and I forgot. On earlier versions most people just turn the user sharpness control to zero. I don't know how that would work on the 1080p sets.

Has anyone checked to see if the firmware version has changed in the most recent 1080p sets? Is there a firmware or change history available?

The Samsung 1080p came with a cleaning cloth. There was no mention on whether the cloth was to be used on the screen. The pictures on the bag that the cloth was in show it being used on the cabinet and not the screen. Is this cloth for the cabinet only or can this be used on the screen? I had also purchased Monseter Screenclean Display Cleaning Kit. Has anyone used this product on the Samsung 1080p screen? Thanks.

Here's the dumb question-- Why do I get bars on the top and bottom when watching a dvd? Hookup is to HDMI2 via DVI-HDMI. Output of Oppo is 1080i. I thought I would get full screen when watching a DVD. Is it dependent on the movie and if so how do I tell by looking at the DVD case?? Thanks

Here's the dumb question-- Why do I get bars on the top and bottom when watching a dvd? Hookup is to HDMI2 via DVI-HDMI. Output of Oppo is 1080i. I thought I would get full screen when watching a DVD. Is it dependent on the movie and if so how do I tell by looking at the DVD case?? Thanks

Yes, it is dependent on the aspect ratio of the DVD itself. Just look on the back of the case for the aspect ratio of the movie. If it is any ratio other than 16:9 then you will have to have black bars of some size to make up the rest of the screen.

Example: Anamorphic Widescreen 2.35:1 is not the same as 16:9.
16:9 is roughly 1.78:1.

Here's the dumb question-- Why do I get bars on the top and bottom when watching a dvd? Hookup is to HDMI2 via DVI-HDMI. Output of Oppo is 1080i. I thought I would get full screen when watching a DVD. Is it dependent on the movie and if so how do I tell by looking at the DVD case?? Thanks
It is dependent on the movie. When looking at the case, if it says the aspect ratio is 2.35:1, you'll have the black bars. If it says 1.85:1 or lower, you shouldn't see them. Search the web and this forum for 'movie aspect ratio' and you find out more then you'll ever want to know.

mcdbirdman, go back to page 169 and click on the link at the bottom of htwaits' post.

Hello friends:

After spending about a half hour going through 24 pages of old threads, I could not find definitive answers to a few questions I have. So I gave up and decided to post. So please forgive me for asking about topics that were discussed in the past.

I have a Samsung HL-R6178W TV on order, but have a small window of time where I can still cancel the order if there are serious problems with this model. So can you please tolerate these questions one more time? Here they go:

1) If I hookup my video connection from my Directv receiver (or DVD player) via component or HDVI straight to the TV, but hook up my audio via digital connection from these units to my surround sound processor for sound, will I get a lag (e.g., lip synching effect)?

2) Is there lag with video games? How bad (please don't hurt me for asking about this again).

3) Where do I put my center channel external speaker? The stand the TV sits on does not fit my center channel because the speaker is too big (it's a B&W HTMD center channel) and so is mounting a shelf to the wall above the TV the only solution? If I do this, that puts the center channel about a foot and a half behind the front of the screen, and I am concerned this could impact sound quality/imaging. Also, this approach forces me to try and snake speaker wire through my walls, etc. Any suggestions? What does everyone else do?

Thanks !!!
Dave

From what I have read, most all of these posts, there will probably be lag. I think there is less lag reported by those who don't notice it or are less sensitive. The people here are experts with this stuff and know what to look for. The thing about games is for the most part there isn't that much lag overall. Certain games where there is a meter like in golf and baseball and some shooting games I think had some lag. People said for the most part you can adjust and compensate for the lag most of the time. I like the idea of the center channel on the wall. Some have put it on top of the TV. I don't know if that works for you? I think they added some bracket or something behind the TV? I don't see how a foot will make a difference and you could probably adjust the sound if you needed to. If you notice a lot of lag you might be able to adjust it on your avr or buy a $200 box that could adjust it.

Just curious, the TVA PB expired yesterday. I paid $3,499 plus the extended warranties. Is that the right amount and has anyone seen the 5678 less? Worst Buy and Tweeter has it for that price now too. I guess I like the service from what I read here. I would never buy something from Worst Buy although my understanding is that Mag. is still a separate entity right now, unlike the Geek Squad, which is owned by Worst Buy. BTW don't take your computer there for service. I had to tell them how to fix it.

Omnimount, http://www.omnimount.com makes a wide range of heavy duty wall mounted brackets for speakers and such.

They can hold a lot of weight well away from the wall, if mounted properly, so you may be able to get your speaker flush with the screen.

Hello friends:



3) Where do I put my center channel external speaker? The stand the TV sits on does not fit my center channel because the speaker is too big (it's a B&W HTMD center channel) and so is mounting a shelf to the wall above the TV the only solution? If I do this, that puts the center channel about a foot and a half behind the front of the screen, and I am concerned this could impact sound quality/imaging. Also, this approach forces me to try and snake speaker wire through my walls, etc. Any suggestions? What does everyone else do?

Thanks !!!
Dave

I mounted my center channel speaker to the top of the TV with two strips of the "heavy duty" plastic velcro.....not the fabric hook-and-loop type but the type with plastic pegs with "mushroom" heads. It shouldn't matter however, because the speaker balnces on the top ledge of the TV screen just fine by itself; the velcro is just to keep it from falling off if you bump or move the TV.

The manual and also the way the inputs are labelled on the back of the TV imply that a STB with DVI out should only be hooked up to HDMI input #2. I have hooked my DirecTV box (DVI out) up to both HDMI #1 and HDMI #2 and do not notice any perceivable difference. Could there really be any difference between the two HDMI inputs? Or are they exactly the same?

I have the 5678 and searched a long time for what would look sharp with it. Finally settled on the BDI Vector 9527 in Black. I had to find one that would handle my 8 inch in height center speaker along with other components. The result is it looks sharp with the black bezel of the TV and the glass shelves from the side also look good. The downside is I looked all over the web and could not find anyone discounting this stand. It ended up at the 599.99. All I could do is choose the one who had free shipping and no sales tax. TV Authority for some reason sells BDI but not this model.

Since this is a really long thread and I haven't read through it, I will ask;
Is the general consensus these 1080s' are better looking than the 720s'?
Also how is SD material? Better, worse, or the same?

The manual and also the way the inputs are labelled on the back of the TV imply that a STB with DVI out should only be hooked up to HDMI input #2. I have hooked my DirecTV box (DVI out) up to both HDMI #1 and HDMI #2 and do not notice any perceivable difference. Could there really be any difference between the two HDMI inputs? Or are they exactly the same?
The reason for this is that DVI does not support audio and therefore ss supplied a set of analog audio jacks with the 2nd input. The first input (HDMI) does not have a second set of audio jacks. Both can do audio via HDMI.

The Samsung 1080p came with a cleaning cloth. There was no mention on whether the cloth was to be used on the screen. The pictures on the bag that the cloth was in show it being used on the cabinet and not the screen. Is this cloth for the cabinet only or can this be used on the screen? I had also purchased Monseter Screenclean Display Cleaning Kit. Has anyone used this product on the Samsung 1080p screen? Thanks.

Mine didn't come with one! I have a 6768. Did anybody else's TV come with a cleaning cloth?

The reason for this is that DVI does not support audio and therefore ss supplied a set of analog audio jacks with the 2nd input. The first input (HDMI) does not have a second set of audio jacks. Both can do audio via HDMI.

Oh ok, that makes sense. Thanks! :)

Mine didn't come with one! I have a 6768. Did anybody else's TV come with a cleaning cloth?

My 6168 did not come with a cloth either. :(

I wonder if his was a xx78 series; maybe that is one other difference between the xx68's and the xx78's? You get a cleaning cloth, lol..... :p

Thanks for the reply! :)

One other thing that I noticed: When I originally made this comment I was of course talking about all SD channels as fed to the TV through my DirecTV box (also a Samsung, I don’t have the model handy with me here at work at the moment). However, since then I ran the DVE calibration disk through the DVD player (of course) and it was shown with equal width sidebars. So I wonder if the Samsung DirecTV box is causing this off-center screen. With that said, however, I did not notice SD channels as being displayed off-center on my old 52” Panasonic DLP HDTV with this same Samsung DirecTV box.

I’ll have to play around some more and maybe hook the DirecTV box back up to my old HDTV (I still have it) and make a direct comparison. However, doesn’t the fact that the DirecTV box’s SD signals being off-center and the DVD player SD signal being centered imply that this may not be the 6168’s fault? Oh, I know……..I bet it’s the HDMI input that is causing SD channels being off-center but that component cable input is properly centering SD input. The DirecTV box was connected vis. HDMI and my DVD player only has component connections. I’ll have to experiment some more tonight after work…….
Ok, I finally got the time to test this theory and I have proven my hunch was correct. I have digital pictures that I will upload as soon as I figure out how. Non-Widescreen formatted signals passed to the TV through HDMI are OFF-CENTER however the same signals passed to the TV through component cables are CENTERED or VERY CLOSE TO CENTER.

I tested this by passing 4:3 formatted signals through my Samsung DirecTV box (Model SIR-TS160) to the 6168W through HDMI and then component. Then I also passed the same signals to my old Panasonic PT-52DL10 which only has component connections. Then I also put in a 4:3 format DVD (Charlie's Angels) through components cables to both the 6168W and my PT-52DL10. In all cases the component cables yielded nearly perfect centering (black bars on left and right were nearly equal width) and the HDMI input (I tested both HDMI inputs on the 6168W) yielded OFF-Centered images (the left black bar about 7" wide and the right bar about 5" wide).

I guess I'll have to call SS and see what they say.....

I will post photos shortly.......

EDIT: My pictures were too big in file size to post here, however; I have them hosted on another website. Just follow this link:

6168W Pictures (http://cards.webshots.com/invite/pickup/104905843UoIe/album/447284532ftKCxm)

I guess I'll have to call SS and see what they say.....I'm not sure that you took into account that DirecTV, or any other TV source of wide digital information, inserts the 4x3 image into a 16x9 image before transmission. In that case the TV thinks it's getting a wide 16x9 source.

Hello friends:

After spending about a half hour going through 24 pages of old threads, I could not find definitive answers to a few questions I have. So I gave up and decided to post. So please forgive me for asking about topics that were discussed in the past.

I have a Samsung HL-R6178W TV on order, but have a small window of time where I can still cancel the order if there are serious problems with this model. So can you please tolerate these questions one more time? Here they go:

1) If I hookup my video connection from my Directv receiver (or DVD player) via component or HDVI straight to the TV, but hook up my audio via digital connection from these units to my surround sound processor for sound, will I get a lag (e.g., lip synching effect)?
Yes.

2) Is there lag with video games? How bad (please don't hurt me for asking about this again).
Yes, there will be lag. Performance depends on which console you are using and which game you are playing. But, yes there will be lag. Unless the game requires split second timing, it will be playable.

3) Where do I put my center channel external speaker? The stand the TV sits on does not fit my center channel because the speaker is too big (it's a B&W HTMD center channel) and so is mounting a shelf to the wall above the TV the only solution? If I do this, that puts the center channel about a foot and a half behind the front of the screen, and I am concerned this could impact sound quality/imaging. Also, this approach forces me to try and snake speaker wire through my walls, etc. Any suggestions? What does everyone else do?
There is a speaker only stand that you can put behind your TV and cabinet that will suspend the speaker properly above the TV ... or ... wall mount ... or buy a new cabinet.

Thanks !!!
Dave

I'm not sure that you took into account that DirecTV, or any other TV source of wide digital information, inserts the 4x3 image into a 16x9 image before transmission. In that case the TV thinks it's getting a wide 16x9 source.

I did not take that into account, however, I don't understand how that is relevant. The same signal from the same DirecTV box is centered if passed through component but not centerd if passed through HDMI. In any case, my DirecTV box is also a Samsung (Model SIR-TS160) so I'll see what Samsung has to say about it; I'm actually on hold with them right now..... :)

Has anyone figured out how to use the TV Guide with a Comcast HDDVR cable box plugged in through an HDMI connection? On TV Guide setup options it doesn't list HDMI input as an option...

I did not take that into account, however, I don't understand how that is relevant. The same signal from the same DirecTV box is centered if passed through component but not centerd if passed through HDMI. In any case, my DirecTV box is also a Samsung (Model SIR-TS160) so I'll see what Samsung has to say about it; I'm actually on hold with them right now..... :)

If the black bars are added by the DirectTV box, than the off center problem is because of the HDMI programming in the DirectTV box and has nothing to do with the Samsung TV. Check your 4:3 settings in the DirectTV box, ie. send only a 4:3 signal to the TV and then see if it is centered.

Has anyone figured out how to use the TV Guide with a Comcast HDDVR cable box plugged in through an HDMI connection? On TV Guide setup options it doesn't list HDMI input as an option...

TVGuide info is only sent through the coax cable to CABLE or ANT inputs. It won't work with an HDMI input. Use the TVGuide guide on the Comcast HD DVR. If you want the Guide to work on the Samsung TV setting, split the coax cable prior to the DVR and route directly to TV ... allow a few days for the Guide to populate.

You can go into the service menu and center the picture. It is a global setting. Once it is set correctly, if the picture is off center, then it is a problem from the external box.
For me, the picture will be off center depending on the channel. Some channels broadcast a 4x3 picture off center.

I have a Sammy 6768 and a Comcast 6200 HD box and my SD channels are TERRIBLE. What am I doing wrong? I have tried viewing the SD content through my HDMI connection and direct through the cable and in both cases the SD content is much worse that my Hitachi Ultravision from 1998! The HD stuff is incredible, but we still get alot of sports in SD......such as the Notre Dame Michigan football game. I know I must be doing something wrong in my settings. Please help.

If the black bars are added by the DirectTV box, than the off center problem is because of the HDMI programming in the DirectTV box and has nothing to do with the Samsung TV. Check your 4:3 settings in the DirectTV box, ie. send only a 4:3 signal to the TV and then see if it is centered.


Would this be the same as sliding the switch on the back of the DirecTV box to output in 480P?

USCB for the record,Im sure you know but if you dont,the remote for the DirectTV has a source button and when toggled one still has to change menu picture to snap it back to its settings.

USCB for the record,Im sure you know but if you dont,the remote for the DirectTV has a source button and when toggled one still has to change menu picture to snap it back to its settings.
Thanks, but I don't have DirectTV ... so I am not familiar with remote or settings. I have Comcast digital cable. It just sounded like the off-center picture was being generated in a 16:9 output on the DirectTV STB.

I wonder if a component connection would be better than HDMI for SD channels. Anyone know? And how much quality would one loose on cable by using component rather than HDMI?

If the black bars are added by the DirectTV box, than the off center problem is because of the HDMI programming in the DirectTV box and has nothing to do with the Samsung TV. Check your 4:3 settings in the DirectTV box, ie. send only a 4:3 signal to the TV and then see if it is centered.


I switched the output from the DirecTV box to 480P and the image is now centered. It looks like you hit the nail on the head here; it must be the DirecTV box that is off-centering the image only when it outputs through DVI.

Thanks for the help!!!! At least I know now that it is not caused by my new 6168W. :)

I have a Sammy 6768 and a Comcast 6200 HD box and my SD channels are TERRIBLE. What am I doing wrong? I have tried viewing the SD content through my HDMI connection and direct through the cable and in both cases the SD content is much worse that my Hitachi Ultravision from 1998! The HD stuff is incredible, but we still get alot of sports in SD......such as the Notre Dame Michigan football game. I know I must be doing something wrong in my settings. Please help.
Your best bet is to route your coax cable directly to the TV and watch SD using the TV's internal tuners. When you find the station you want to watch, hit MENU and go down to channel and FINE TUNE the channel. It will look very good. If it doesn't, then you need to call your cable company because they may need to work on your cable signal.

That having been said, SD TV on a 67" set is not going to look good if you are too close. Try 3x screen diagonal, or about 15' plus viewing distance to optimize the PQ.

Thanks to all who responded!!

It appears that the majority concur that there would be lag in both scenarios I mentioned. I feel like I should cancel my order for the Samsung HL-R6178W TV because of this. However, would any DLP suffer from this problem or is this a Samsung specific flaw? What's the next best DLP out there (60 inch) that would not have the lag problems in the scenarios I mentioned in my prior post?

Thanks again!!!
Dave

moon, I think what people here have said is that it is relative. Some don't even notice it. You would have to compare the same setup with each TV in order to get a true analysis. I wouldn't make a decision like this with what only some have reported here. You need to test it yourself. My understanding is that LCD, DLP have delays and that they vary.

Thanks BCVP. But buying this TV, having it delivered, then set up in my house, only to find it is notablly flawed because of the lag sounds like a lot to go through only to end up returning it. Who knows how difficult, feasible and costly the return process is for a big TV like this. I really don't know what to do. :-(

Is there any other specifc info I could give about my setup that might make it possible for some of you to make a better educated guess if I will have the lag problems? I think that any noticeable lag would drive me insane.

Thanks!
Dave

My 6168 did not come with a cloth either. :(

I wonder if his was a xx78 series; maybe that is one other difference between the xx68's and the xx78's? You get a cleaning cloth, lol..... :p


Yes it came with the xx78 series. I'm thinking the cloth might be for the glossy edging on the front of the DLP.

I received my 6768 yesterday! I order 7/18. Its a little late (a year?) but better late than never.

I confirmed my order on Tuesday and it only took until Friday for it to be delivered. That was less shipping time than I expected. I guess living just a few hours from Sacramento where they have a big warehouse must have helped. TVA doesn't actually keep these in their own facility - they ship direct from a Samsung warehouse.

A few impressions:
Delivery: Delivered by some company other than Seko. No issues whatsoever. They showed up within their time window. And the window was very reasonable, only 2 hours rather than the more typical 4 hours. They called the day before to set the time. A single driver showed up in a big truck with a lift gate. I helped him and we easily moved the TV box onto the driveway.

Packaging: The TV was upright on a pallet. No damage was present on the outside of the box. Good thing too since once I lifted the lid off it was evident that there was virtually no padding or support! Amazing. There is some foam at the bottom holding the TV base and absorbing shock during transit but the rest of the TV just sits unprotected within the box. A light frame of cardboard tubes holds the box lid up. So, its definitely a method of packing that requires proper handling to avoid damage to the TV.

Initial good news: Wow what a beautiful picture. And I think the size looks perfect for my viewing distance of about 12'. I'm very glad I didn't get the 61". 67" is great. The brightness is way cool. The colors are great. So much better than any projection set I've seen.

Initial bad news: Tried the Oppo DVD player using HDMI and had huge audio/video sync problems. The video lagged the audio badly. And what's worse, the amount of lag was highly variable. First I convinced myself that some DVDs suffered the problem worse than others. Than I became convinced that some chapters of a single DVD had worse lag than others. And then I realized the truth - even the same chapter played repeatedly suffers different lag each time! When it gets really bad, you can often get it back on track by pausing playback and restarting. Variable lag is very bad since it says you can't really adjust for it. I'm hoping this is the Oppo player and that the TV played no part in this bad performance. I know the TV introduces video latency but I'm hoping its fairly constant. I will test a few more DVD players before I blame the TV and return it. Sometimes the lag is so bad that it completely overwhelms the built-in adjustable audio delay since it has a max of 50ms. This situation just doesn't seem right - something is suffering from a pretty bad bug.

More bad news: Xbox games definitely suffer a bunch of lag. I've not tried any HD games yet nor have I connected component video. But over SVideo the lag was bad. Game mode helped a little bit but did not completely solve the problem. This is not a great game TV. The beautiful picture makes it look great and I am gradually getting used to the lag such that I can play tolerably. But I don't think games will ever feel the same without that snappy responsiveness they have on a normal display.

Some good news: For whatever reason, my DISH box connected via SVideo doesn't seem to suffer any noticeable audio/video sync issue even with no programmed delay anywhere. And the picture looks pretty darn good for a magnified over-compressed satellite stream.

DVD image quality is really good but the audio/video sync problems in this setup right now are totally unacceptable. I must find a way to solve this one or all this stuff is getting returned.

I do think this lag issue is highly dependent on setup but I object to the argument being made that some people are bothered more than others and every viewer must see for themselves. I think this argument makes light of a really serious issue affecting AV equipment today. All manufacturers and even the underlying system architectures are at fault. There needs to be a built-in standardized automatic feature to keep the audio and video synchronized to within some pretty tight tolerance. Spending $20K on an AV system and then having to adjust a dial manually to a different value for each channel or DVD to match the sound with the video is totally and completely LUDICROUS! Look at all the effort that is being put into perfecting the audio (dolby digital, DTS, THX, 5.1, 7.1, etc) and video (DLP, LCoS, LCD, plasma, etc) separately and nobody is working on properly tying them together? It seems like HDMI would somehow include the solution to this problem but I don't think it does.

Readers, except for the extremely minimal/marginal cases, the lag issue is not viewer/listener dependent. When the sound is 100ms ahead of the video, every viewer will feel like they are watching an old dubbed martial arts movie. Once it gets below 10ms its probably viewer dependent but the problems with these systems can be MUCH worse that that. We customers need to put pressure on the AV industry to solve this problem in a robust way rather than hacks like manual customer adjusted audio delays. <sigh> While I encourage people to go look at products before buying, you are likely to be mislead on this issue since your setup probably won't match the store setup exactly and this issue is very setup dependent.

I've not run enough experiments on my setup yet to say I understand what combinations of inputs, settings and sources show more or less lag. But I'll report this information once I have it.

I can say this so far - the Oppo DVD player (latest rev, direct from Oppo 2 days ago), connected to the 6768 via HDMI (DVI really since the player uses an adapter cable), with an optical digital audio output connected from the Oppo to an AV receiver, has huge and extremely variable video lag. Because its so variable, it can't even be manually compensated.

I plan to pick up a Panasonic S97 for testing and I sure hope its performance with the 6768 is better. I will also get my old Sony ES DVD player back out and hook it up to various inputs to see if it has any lag issues.

I don't want to give you guys the impression I have only negative things to say about these TVs. This 67" looks amazingly beautiful.

-Dan

p.s. - Any suggestions appreciated.

I'm just glad I'm not a gamer!!

It seems like there should be some sort of industry standard buffer built into all sets...something a bit longer than the maximum amount of lag encountered.

If DVDs and broadcast content, and games, had this buffer (200ms or so?) in the video stream, then the audio would start up, wouldn't it always then be synched?

Also, if the video lag is so variable, why don't we see "jerkiness" in scenes--other than ones with Sean Penn...:D-- if there is a variable delay when the video is processed...Is it because our ears are more sensitive than our eyes?

I really don't know, but I find it hard to believe that this is too great a technical challenge.

Dan ... and anyone else considering the 67" + sets ... you need to factor a solid AV sync solution into your project plan, PERIOD! An AV receiver with AV sync on every input or at least one (or more) Felston units. At these screen sizes you are going to be able to see AV sync problems easily. In many cases, I suspect you are even seeing sync problems from the original film/DVD mastering process. Between what the TV is causing and the source is causing ... you just need this flexibility.

You can try the S97, but a 100 ms AV sync max it is not going to a complete solution and broadcast AV sync issues are more common than DVD ... so your best bet is to get a solution that can handle all of your inputs.

Honestly, I am amazed by the resistance to buying a AV sync solution ... clearly people are seeing this issue tied to the TV, and not part of setting up a flexible, capable system.

After reading Dan's post and posts from others who were kind enough to give me feedback, I think I will likely be canceling my order and going for a 60 inch Pioneer Elite Plasma.

I know this is twice the money, which made me stay away from it initially, but to pay $4500 for a setup with lag problems would be more disappointing to me. I do want my games and all my other sources to be just right.

Therefore, please allow these off topic questions:

Will the Pioneer Plasma lag?
Will it be bad for games?
The TV will be in a bright family room, but I have window shades and plan on tinting the windows. Will this be O.K. fo a plasma TV?
Do Plasma's also need to be calibrated when yoiu buy one new?
Let's say a Plasma is supposed to last you 10 years. Does that mean it starts to go on you in 10 years? Or does the picture start to deteriorate slowly even before the 10 year mark?

Thanks in advance for your tolerance of these off topic questions! I need to call my retailer before it's too late if I decide to switch. So any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!
Dave

I switched the output from the DirecTV box to 480P and the image is now centered. It looks like you hit the nail on the head here; it must be the DirecTV box that is off-centering the image only when it outputs through DVI.

Thanks for the help!!!! At least I know now that it is not caused by my new 6168W. :)

You need to go into the Setup menu of your TS-160, go to Installation and then Monitor setup. From here you will be able to center your image.

I have this box also and have been trying to figure out the best setting for it. I dont really see much of a difference between the 720p and 1080i output settings, but from what I have read in this thread, most ppl are choosing to use the 1080i output. One thing I have noticed though is that I have fewer lip synch issues while the box is set at 720p.

Can any other Directv owners comment on which output setting you have your STB set to?

TIA

Those are good questions that you would be better off asking in the Plasma displays section. If you liked the idea of a 1080p DLP, have you considered a 60" or larger 1080p DLP set from Mitsubishi or Toshiba?

I would if I knew they would not have lag problems and are close in picture quality as the Samsung.

Thanks,
Dave

I would if I knew they would not have lag problems and are close in picture quality as the Samsung.

Thanks,
Dave

I believe the lag seen on the 1080p Samsungs is an issue more general to 1080p displays. There is a lot more image processing going on with a 1080p image than a 720p image. This processing takes a finite amount of time. We shall see as more manufacturers get their new displays out.

FWIW, every time I compare any Samsung 1080p to any other non-1080p display in the same store, where all the neighboring displays are all getting the same feed, I can see scene changes occur on all the other sets a split second before it occurs on the Samsung. And today I saw one of the new Mitsubishi 1080p sets for the first time. I spent a fair amount of time looking for lag and comparing it to the Samsung by observing which one switches scenes first (they were both getting the same feed). I clearly observed both the video on the Samsung 1080p AND the Mitsubishi 1080p lag a split second behind all the other sets. However I must say that after much observation, I did see the Samsung lag every so slightly behind the Mitsubishi. And I'm still anxious to see or hear any first-hand observations of the imminent Toshibas.

So my conclusion at this point is that probably every 1080p set will exhibit some degree of lag relative to lower res displays, at least until the image processing chips get faster. And within the 1080p sets, there may be some smaller variation, with some being slightly better than others.

Dan ... and anyone else considering the 67" + sets ... you need to factor a solid AV sync solution into your project plan, PERIOD! An AV receiver with AV sync on every input or at least one (or more) Felston units. At these screen sizes you are going to be able to see AV sync problems easily. In many cases, I suspect you are even seeing sync problems from the original film/DVD mastering process. Between what the TV is causing and the source is causing ... you just need this flexibility.

You can try the S97, but a 100 ms AV sync max it is not going to a complete solution and broadcast AV sync issues are more common than DVD ... so your best bet is to get a solution that can handle all of your inputs.

Honestly, I am amazed by the resistance to buying a AV sync solution ... clearly people are seeing this issue tied to the TV, and not part of setting up a flexible, capable system.
Bill: I agree that anyone who likes the SS xxx8 series TV features and is experiencing audio delays that are variable between sources should consider a felston or an AVR with individual synch delays per source.

But we have to be careful in that Dan, AkaStp, I and a few others are seeing audio delays that are variable within one source and within one DVD. These synch delays cannot be adjusted with a Felston unless you want to constantly chase the audio manually during a session.

Many have shown that these delays are not necessarily source related. For example a DVD on one player will exhibit it while another player will not, or the same DVD and player combo on one TV will show it and on another TV it will not. Right now it appears its sort of a content/device/TV crap shoot. Some combos work and others don't. What role each component plays in this is still a mystery.

So why external audio delays are certainly appropriate for constant delay issues within a single source, or the variable delays between sources, they will not fix the variable delays seen within a single source that are not content related.

So why external audio delays are certainly appropriate for constant delay issues within a single source, or the variable delays between sources, they will not fix the variable delays seen within a single source that are not content related.A constant audio delay can move the range of delays that aren't noticed to a better spot. Not perfect but it can help.

Has anyone figured out a way to make PIP work in PC mode? I used this all the time on my old HLM-507 and was very dismayed to see it wasnt available in PC mode on the 6168!!

How are we supposed to check football stats while watching the game now?? :(

I waited for 6 months for 1080P with a 13 & 19 inch tv after my 35" tube died. Got my 6178 from Tweeter one week after they received them. Kept it for exactly 29 days and then sadly returned it. Why?

1. Really bad SD quality. Had the cable co out to check signal. They got it down to -9db at the tv. Still bad. Digital channels were slightly better than analog, but not much. HBO channels were watchable, but not great. Don't think I could watch it for another 1 1/2 to 2 years waiting on HD. Did not have time to try it on a Satellite signal.

2. Watching HD the tv was impressive. However there was a shimmer or micro blocking etc in certain fast movement scenes that drove me nuts. Really noticed it during the US open when the camera panned the crowd. Also during Monday Night Football whten a lot of players are in the scene.

3. Lip Sync, same as others have talked about. Noticed it more on component than HDMI. My three year old amp doesnt have a delay.

4. Using PC with vga input you cannot put a picture in picture from another source.

5. Can't learn remote using Proto Neo. Tried to call SS on this but never got to level 2 support due to Katrina.

6. Liked the design of the 78 better than the 68, but the shiny bezel on the 78 is not good other than looking pretty. Any lamps near your veiwing position will be reflected in the bezel. What is the point of a non reflective screen if the bezel is reflective?

7. With cable box. Cant use the v chip, or the TV guide. With my setup, most of the stuff in the menus was greyed out.

8. Silly waste of a button on remote for the DNLE demo, instead of swap PIP etc.

I don't blame all of this on the TV, but spending $4K or more on a TV, you would expect it to be WOW when coming from a $1K 35" Toshiba CRT. I must say Tweeter was great to deal with. Dont' know what I am going to do now. If this TV was only to be used to watch DVDs or HD I probably would have kept it. Guess I wait till the first of the year and see how the other players compare and in the mean time at least get an all digital source.

TVGuide info is only sent through the coax cable to CABLE or ANT inputs. It won't work with an HDMI input. Use the TVGuide guide on the Comcast HD DVR. If you want the Guide to work on the Samsung TV setting, split the coax cable prior to the DVR and route directly to TV ... allow a few days for the Guide to populate.

Learning about digital broadcasting as I go.. please correct if I've misstated any obvious issues. It appears in our chicago area that the built-in TVGuide won't work well with direct-to-tv cable connection. A CABLE CARD will be required to translate channel numbers, so I have one on order for end of week install.

TV Guide expects content to be on the "published" channel numbers... as would be tuned in on your STB or DVR. However, I find that when using the TV's AUTOTUNE feature, the TV actually detects the digital stations on completely different channel numbers.
For example, ESPN-HD is published as showing on channel 173 using STB.
However, on the Samsung, TV must be direct tuned to "115-2".
So I go into the TVGuide setup and edit the channel entry for that station, type in "115-2" and TVguide will tune to that station.
Then, overnight, Comcast reassigns ESPN-HD (and many other broadcasts) to a different channel, such a "107-5".
They seem to constantly be moving bandwith allocation around for their digital transmissions (the analog stations seem to be more constant).
For the moment, I've given up on trying to direct-tune the TV for digital cable, and use only the Moto 6412 STB, though I look forward to getting a working cablecard to bring back some sanity. This will only work of course if CC sends out the station coding changes to the cable card.

Hi everyone!

I am getting ready to order my HLR 6168 (yeah - finally!). I have 2 questions which I can't find definitive answers for after searching through the thread:

1) Is the Samsung stand (TR61X2) good enough? I have to be able to fit an AVR, DVD player, Tape deck (yes, I still have that! ;)), VCR, Comcast HD-DVR. Will this stand cut it? Any other options out there? Can I simply lay the Center Channel on the floor in front of the TV??

2) Whats the final word on Extended warranties? Where do I get one? I am not going to buy the TV from TVA - so their extended warranty doesn't include the lamp and screen. Any other companies offering an extended warranty that includes these 2 items?

Thanks folks!

Dear Wish..... feeling a bit of buyer's remorse for getting the Samsung-branded stand. Yes, it is sized to fit the TVs pedestal bottom, and priced per its quality. But it does have limited component space (only one shelf) and I now think it makes the TV itself look "cheaper" than it is. Try to find one in a store to view, because I think it looks better on The Samsumg website than in reality.
Besides looking for a stand with the component storage you need, please carefully consider the overall height of your choice. The TR61X2 totals about 17"H which is perfect for my setup, but many other stands measure higher. That might be an important factor for you. I will probably be looking for something more "furniture-grade" at a later date.

But how about the Comcast Analog and channels? How do they look? What is your viewing distance?

thanks!

Picture quality on Comcast SD channels via built-in Samsung tuner depends on the source. Some are excellent, most are pretty good, and some are downright awful. The very thin white lines along vertical edges are present on SD channels when you view them in native 4:3 mode. It's really not that distracting and on some channels and it's hardly noticeable. Major stations (ABC, CBS, NBC) broadcast HD channels in 4:3 mode as well; however, these thin white lines are not present on HD channels. There is no pincushion distortion when viewing 4:3 material. The picture is centered on the screen, i.e., the black bars on the left and riight side of the picture are of equal width.

My viewing distance is 13 feet. If you currently have a set-top box, my advice would be to try your TV without it. You may find out that the picture quality is better via the built-in tuner. This could be especially true for SD channels.

After reading Dan's post and posts from others who were kind enough to give me feedback, I think I will likely be canceling my order and going for a 60 inch Pioneer Elite Plasma.

I know this is twice the money, which made me stay away from it initially, but to pay $4500 for a setup with lag problems would be more disappointing to me. I do want my games and all my other sources to be just right.

Therefore, please allow these off topic questions:

Will the Pioneer Plasma lag?
Will it be bad for games?
The TV will be in a bright family room, but I have window shades and plan on tinting the windows. Will this be O.K. fo a plasma TV?
Do Plasma's also need to be calibrated when yoiu buy one new?
Let's say a Plasma is supposed to last you 10 years. Does that mean it starts to go on you in 10 years? Or does the picture start to deteriorate slowly even before the 10 year mark?

Thanks in advance for your tolerance of these off topic questions! I need to call my retailer before it's too late if I decide to switch. So any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!
Dave

You should really take a close look at Pioneer Elite Plasma sets in a good store, e.g., Magnolia. I have done this, and the screen glare was a deal breaker for me. Plasma Elite sets have very pronounced screen glare that ruins their otherwise nice picture in brightly lit rooms. Will you really always plan to darken your family room whenever you want to watch TV? Even in the middle of the day? Most people are not prepared to go this far.

After watching Plasma Elite at Magnolia, I concluded that only a dedicated home theater with controlled lighting would make sense. Same with Sony Qualia 006. Magnolia in San Ramon, CA has both on display. Plasma Elite is in a room right next to fairly large outside facing windows that let a lot of light in. It's really not watchable at all! Qualia has a better location, inside the store where daylight does not quite reach. However, you can still see clearly all the ceiling lights reflected off of Qualia screen.

8. Silly waste of a button on remote for the DNLE demo, instead of swap PIP etc.


The Samsung DNIe situation is definitely mysterious. I couldn't help but spend some time thinking about possible explanations for what happened with DNIe. I would LOVE to hear the real story from somebody "in the know" at Samsung. Anyone got any contacts?

At some point, Samsung believed this to be the 4th most important selling feature of the HL-R line! If you look on their webpage, they list 4 major technologies on the HL-R under each TV and the 4th of them is DNIe. They proceed to dedicate a paragraph to explaining how great it is. The other three major technologies are the 1080p gen 6 light engine, faster color wheel, and next gen DLP chips.

After all that marketing, its turned off on all the sets and cannot be turned on by any means other than going into the service menu!!! At least I've not found a way to turn it on. The default is definitely off (very obvious by looking at the demo images) and the only options revolve around the DNIe demo, the existence of which is another oddity.

And the remote button for the demo is totally bizarre and I think offers a clue to the truth. It just doesn't make any sense to have a remote button for the darn demo that nobody would use more than a few times in the life of the TV. What good is a demo anyway if you can't even turn DNIe on??? Normal people shouldn't ever be in the service menu hence its effectively permanently disabled.

So now for my theory:
Originally, Samsung did plan to make DNIe functional on every HL-R TV. The remote button was intended to TURN DNIe ON AND OFF, not turn the demo on and off. That would make sense for an imaging processing feature that you might want to use on some sources but not others.

The demo was added in place of the true DNIe function as a sort of obfuscation since they marketed and sold the TV's based on DNIe and didn't feel like they could completely delete it. Although I don't see how the demo is any better than totally deleting it.

Something must have gone wrong with DNIe late in the game. Too late to remove the button. Too late to alter the marketing material. Too late to fix the problem.

So they made a last minute change to turn the DNIe control functions into the DNIe demo functions.

What went wrong with DNIe?
Some possibilities . . .
(1) The extra processing made the latency (lag) issue even worse to the point that it was obvious on all systems and nobody could tolerate it. Has anyone turned it on in their service menu and tried to make some relative latency comparisons?
(2) As experts looked at the results of DNIe they had negative reactions to its effects and said everyone should turn it off. Less credible because in this case they would probably have had it default to off but still be possible to activate from the remote/menu.
(3) Some serious bug was found that caused bad things to happen when DNIe was on, for example, the TV crashed and required a power cycle when input selection changed while DNIe was on. The last minute hack patch was to disable DNIe to avoid the bug scenario. If this is the case, turning it on in the service menu might open the user up to experiencing whatever the bug scenario was. Anyway had any problem with DNIe on?

Very mysterious.

Any other speculations for the entertainment of the group? Or does somebody know the answer?

One more speculation from me . . .DNIe will make a come back. At some point, whatever issue they had with DNIe will be resolved and DNIe will be enabled on newer TVs. They might even distribute a firmware upgrade that enables it on previously sold sets. We shall see.

I'm not sure I even want it but I'm sure I want to know the story!

-Dan

Once it starts, it will happen every time you change inputs. Harmony remotes should be able to send the right IR codes.

Right now I am 100% sure the problem is occuring on the HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 inputs. I'm testing the other inputs and will clarify the situation on the component and TV sources.

I take it this only applies if you have customized settings on your inputs? If you use presets (Standard, Movie, etc.), then the settings should stay the same after switching inputs.

Wow. I've been watching a mix of DVD movies today on the Oppo/6768 combo. Simply amazing picture quality. I've never seen DVD look anywhere near this pretty before. Like I've read from others, its almost HDTV like.

As we know, all pictures displayed on these TVs are displayed at 1080p. So the scaling and deinterlacing happens at least once if not more than once, the question is just where.

I've been trying various settings on the Oppo's HDMI, namely 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

I think I've concluded that its better to fully scale the image on the Oppo, ie 1080i out. There are a few scenes here and there that seemed to look better to me when scaled on the Oppo. But it looks great either way.

Still working the audio/video sync issue. Most of the time it seems like the 50msec max programmable delay in the Oppo is just a little too short. Something like 60msec would nail it. But sometimes a scene or even just a "session", ie the same scene but played at a different time, will suffer from much worse lag. I don't know why - something about the image content that requires more processing hence slows it down more? Hmmm.

I have to find a way to make this work since I've fallen in love with the picture.

-Dan

Thanks to all who responded!!

It appears that the majority concur that there would be lag in both scenarios I mentioned. I feel like I should cancel my order for the Samsung HL-R6178W TV because of this. However, would any DLP suffer from this problem or is this a Samsung specific flaw? What's the next best DLP out there (60 inch) that would not have the lag problems in the scenarios I mentioned in my prior post?

Thanks again!!!
Dave

With sound through your AVR all sets, from all manufatures, that have to process video will will have video lag. No exceptions. Many don't see it but you can hear it with the echo test.

Here's my summary:

Samsung HLM507 - No lip synch delay with DVD players or HD receiver
Samsung HLR5078 - Lip synch delay (variable) with DVD players and HD receiver
Sony 50A10 - No lip synch delay with DVD players or HD receiver

DVD players tested were Samsung 850 (HDMI & component), Panasonic S97 (HDMI & component), Sony NC80V (component).
HD receiver is DirecTV HD Tivo (HR10-250).
In all case audio was via digital optical and coax connections to Panasonic XR50 A/V Receiver.

Also, a few months ago I tested the following:
Samsung HLP5063 - Lip synch delay (variable) with DVD player (S97) and HD receiver (TS360)
Sony 55XS955 - No lip synch delay with DVD player (S97) and HD receiver (TS360)

Take this for Fwiw. I don't see how its not the later Samsung TVs. If it was my setup then surely I would see the same problems with the older Samsung HLM507 (HD2, no DNIe or DNR) and the Sony A10. I agree with bcvp that you need to test it yourself and determine if it is objectionable to you and if you want to deal with delay features in DVD players, A/V receivers or external units (like the Felston) to get it right.

Did you use the ECHO test? Or did you just not see the lag when you say NO lag? I am not familiar with the sets you mention. Do they not process video?

I do not have any audio/video lag on any source. Sources Comcast Mororola STB , Marantz DV-8400 DVD Player and Sony Playstation. Using toslink from sources to pre/pro {Classe} Using component cables on STB and DVD. Will be able to upgrade to a set top box with HDMI shortly, right now my box only has DVI and do not want to buy an adapter, but will report back when I get the STB with HDMI to see if I see/hear it. But right now audio/video synch is a non issue , HLR-6778.

Re DNIE my conclusion is that it is always on. Even though in the service menu it says off and when you turn it on in the SM you do see a difference in the picture, when you exit out and watch the demo in the user mode, If you look closely at a football game , where they have the score on the upper right {the DNIE off side} , turn on the demo , then off , if you watch the score of the game , it becomes clearer when you exit the demo.

I am though still interested into the explanation of why it says off in the SM.

Thanks !

My 6768
I am having a real problem with small tiny boxes moving around in the background with fast moving pans, also blotchy moving things in dark scenes...shimmering...I have a 67" which show every flaw...I have had Dish Network replace all my cabling, replace my ground replaced my HD811 with another one and still have these annoying issues...even with OTA and HD...SD looks really fuzzy grainy and sometimes unwatchable...I have had this same setup with a old Mits 55" RP and a HLN567 and have not noticed any of these issues...using my OPPO is not a problem except for a little MB...Samsung is coming out to address these issues...also on the 67" bezel there are indentations on the top and sides...looks like they over tightened the bezel at the factory...anybody have these issues with their sets.

I have the Samsung 6768 hooked up to a Pioneer VSX-1015TX receiver and Oppo DVD. I use Comcast cable through a Motorala 6200 HD box to receive HD. I have the Oppo hooked up to the TV through DVI/HDMI cables and the Motorola hooked up with HDMI/HDMI. Here is my experience after several days with some of the issues reported on this forum.

Picture Quality. HD picture quality is simply stunning. SD is another issue.

Rainbows. Haven't seen them and have tried. Noone else has seen them either.

Audio Lag on DVD or HD content. I don't doubt the other posts on this forum but this has not shown up at all with my setup. And I have looked for it; tried to reproduce it, etc.

XBox Lag. I am waiting for the XBox 360. Will let you know in November.

SD Picture Quality. This is my ONLY complaint with the set because SD picture quality, particularly close up, is terrible. I have followed the advice from this forum and view SD directly through the internal turner (and fine tune it), but it is only decent at about 15 feet or reduce in the PIP. This is not a defect in the set and a function of SD being magnified this big in a set not designed for it, but I can tell you that SD looks much better on my 1998 Hitachi Ultravision, no comparison. But I didn't get the set to watch SD so this is something I can live with (or just watch on my other set).

In summary, I am thrilled with the set and would have no reservations about recommending it to anyone.

I've been trying various settings on the Oppo's HDMI, namely 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

I think I've concluded that its better to fully scale the image on the Oppo, ie 1080i out. There are a few scenes here and there that seemed to look better to me when scaled on the Oppo. But it looks great either way.

Still working the audio/video sync issue. Most of the time it seems like the 50msec max programmable delay in the Oppo is just a little too short. Something like 60msec would nail it. But sometimes a scene or even just a "session", ie the same scene but played at a different time, will suffer from much worse lag. I don't know why - something about the image content that requires more processing hence slows it down more? Hmmm.

I have to find a way to make this work since I've fallen in love with the picture.

-Dan

dgilley,

Thanks for post. I'm curious whether you have been able to see any difference in lag based on the type of signal you are feeding the set. i.e. is the lag you observe less when you feed 1080i to the TV compared with when you feed 720p or 480p to the TV. It sure seems like the less processing the TV has to do, the less the lag will be. But noone has reported that yet.

I do not have any audio/video lag on any source. Sources Comcast Mororola STB , Marantz DV-8400 DVD Player and Sony Playstation. Using toslink from sources to pre/pro {Classe} Using component cables on STB and DVD. Will be able to upgrade to a set top box with HDMI shortly, right now my box only has DVI and do not want to buy an adapter, but will report back when I get the STB with HDMI to see if I see/hear it. But right now audio/video synch is a non issue , HLR-6778.

Re DNIE my conclusion is that it is always on. Even though in the service menu it says off and when you turn it on in the SM you do see a difference in the picture, when you exit out and watch the demo in the user mode, If you look closely at a football game , where they have the score on the upper right {the DNIE off side} , turn on the demo , then off , if you watch the score of the game , it becomes clearer when you exit the demo.

I am though still interested into the explanation of why it says off in the SM.

Thanks !


You say you get no audio sync issues , but do you get video lag with the playstation ? If not then i am at a loss for words, and will be calling up TVA or Samsung...

Any reason why I shouldn't leave both component and HDMI out from DirectTV H10 to the HLR6178W. Seems to switch over just fine when I switch inputs on the TV.

Jim

A question for anyone using the internal cable tuner... I can't seem to get any cable channels above 135 to tune in on my 6168. I only get the extended basic analog channels up to about channel 65. My cable company (Mediacom) offers digital cable channels (non-HD) on channels 201 and up that you can get with a digital cable box. After an "Autoprogram" I still don't see these channels. Am I doing something wrong? How can I tell if these channels are "encrypted" or whatever which would prevent me from receiving them without the cable box? Also, I'm not talking about the premium channels like HBO, etc. I'm talking about the digital basic channels like Noggin, VH1 Classic, etc...

A question for anyone using the internal cable tuner... I can't seem to get any cable channels above 135 to tune in on my 6168. I only get the extended basic analog channels up to about channel 65. My cable company (Mediacom) offers digital cable channels (non-HD) on channels 201 and up that you can get with a digital cable box. After an "Autoprogram" I still don't see these channels. Am I doing something wrong? How can I tell if these channels are "encrypted" or whatever which would prevent me from receiving them without the cable box? Also, I'm not talking about the premium channels like HBO, etc. I'm talking about the digital basic channels like Noggin, VH1 Classic, etc...

Do you have a cablecard installed? You will need one for digital cable reception.

Your best bet is to route your coax cable directly to the TV and watch SD using the TV's internal tuners. When you find the station you want to watch, hit MENU and go down to channel and FINE TUNE the channel. It will look very good. If it doesn't, then you need to call your cable company because they may need to work on your cable signal.

That having been said, SD TV on a 67" set is not going to look good if you are too close. Try 3x screen diagonal, or about 15' plus viewing distance to optimize the PQ.

Newbie Moron Question - Is it ok to use a "splitter" if the coaxial cable signal must also be delivered to a set top box? (SA8300HD, i'm hoping - Tampa Bright House)

You say you get no audio sync issues , but do you get video lag with the playstation ? If not then i am at a loss for words, and will be calling up TVA or Samsung...

Just to clarify , No I have no lag at all. In other words everything works perfectly.

To anyone with a comcast digital box for standard definition programming turn the 480 overide to off. Suggest watching 4:3 programming in a non stretch mode.
ie with black bars on the sides. Picture quality will range from medoicre {analog stations} to decent {digital stations } to awsome {The WB high def channel when showing 4:3 is amazingly good} I have no idea what they are doing but I suggest content providers figure it out and copy it !

Newbie Moron Question - Is it ok to use a "splitter" if the coaxial cable signal must also be delivered to a set top box? (SA8300HD, i'm hoping - Tampa Bright House)

Generally, yes. Assuming that you have a good signal, you can split it without any problems.

Do you have a cablecard installed? You will need one for digital cable reception.
No, actually I don't have one. I don't think Mediacom even offers it yet. They (cable company) don't even offer HD yet! But I was assuming that the cable tuner built-in to the TV would at least pick up the "digital basic" cable (non-local) channels.

You are probably looking in the wrong place. Without a cable box or cable card you won't get the same channel numbers as you would with a cable box or cable card because the cable box and card take care of the channel # mappings. In my area the HD locals are in the 650-660 range but on my TV they appear as 18-x, 89-x, 90-x and 91-x, etc. where -x are the sub-channels. You'll need to work your way through all of the channels that the TV picked up and determine which are which. You'll have to "seperate the wheat from the chaff". You'll probably be surprised at what you'll find.
Hmmm, my cable company doesn't even offer any digital (HD) locals... Only the analogs. But maybe the other digital cable channels are mapped funky too as some kind of sub-channels? I'll have to run the auto-program again to see if any new channels show up in the 66+ range.

Have you had a chance to post the pronto file yet? I need some of the other codes. Thanks!!!!

E9 did it!!! It works, also thanks for the other codes! I will be

building a Pronto NG file and posting it here and at remotecentral.com over the next day or so ... but, until then here is the Pronto HEX code for HDMI 1 and HDMI 2:

HDMI 2:
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AB 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0680

HDMI 1:
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AC 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0680


Thanks!!!!!

Ive had my 6768 for 2 days now and im starting to notice smudges on the screen near the middle. Now I ask my family if they see it but they dont. Is it me or is it normal?

Have you had a chance to post the pronto file yet? I need some of the other codes. Thanks!!!!

I have been working on my Pronto file, but haven't finished it yet. Hopefully, it will be together early this week.

dgilley,

Thanks for post. I'm curious whether you have been able to see any difference in lag based on the type of signal you are feeding the set. i.e. is the lag you observe less when you feed 1080i to the TV compared with when you feed 720p or 480p to the TV. It sure seems like the less processing the TV has to do, the less the lag will be. But noone has reported that yet.

I have played around with different resolution outputs on the DVI of the Oppo to the 6768. I went back and forth between 480p, 720p, and 1080i many times and tried to qualitatively measure the lag in each case. I couldn't see a repeatable difference. If there was a repeatable difference, it was smaller than I could detect and basically insignificant.

This was a bit of a surprise to me. Like you say above, I was thinking that the different amounts of processing required on each signal within the 6768 would result in different latency.

Some possible explanations for why not:
(1) The time required for each conversion may be similar or the conversion process may be an insignificant part of the processing timeline.
480p to 1080p requires scaling but not deinterlacing
720p 1080p requires scaling but not deinterlacing
1080i to 1080p requires deinterlacing but not scaling
Probably one scaling algorithm is used for all cases. Perhaps regardless of input and output resolution, the scaling takes a similar amount of time, or the time required by scaling is a very small part of the processing timeline hence unnoticeable. I would expect the time required for scaling would be directly proportional to the input image pixel count. A 1080p image has roughly twice the pixels of a 720p image. So, the fact that the latency difference was very small says to me that the scaling is the easy part of image processing.
I guess deinterlacing takes a similar amount of time as the scaling.

(2) Samsung may have thought about the need for people to compensate for the video latency in their audio systems and deliberately kept the processing time constant regardless of how much was getting done (except game mode). So in cases where the processing is done early, they could just delay the data to keep it all delayed by the worst case amount. This would let people set an audio delay in their AV receiver or using an external delay box that was constant for all cases.

I hope (2) is the truth.

I've not yet played around with using other non-HDMI/DVI outputs of the Oppo into the 6768. Only configuration variations on the DVI so far.

-Dan

Just to clarify , No I have no lag at all. In other words everything works perfectly.

Hmmmm. It is hard for me to believe you have zero lag with a PS2. What input are you using and what are your configuration settings to achieve this result? Do you have game mode on? What sort of games have you tried?

The degree to which lag is noticeable on a game system and HL-R definitely varies depending on the type of game. I've gone through only a few of my games so far and like others say, it is very noticeable on first person shooters (Halo 2, Medal of Honour). But it is less noticeable on Diablo style hack-slash games. I can still feel it on all the games I've tried but its not as bad on some.

There shouldn't be much system setup variation between users on game systems since there are really only two game systems people talk about (PS2, XBox) and no intervening equipment. So we can all recreate these game system scenarios given the same game system, an HL-R, and the same game.

-Dan

I have played around with different resolution outputs on the DVI of the Oppo to the 6768. I went back and forth between 480p, 720p, and 1080i many times and tried to qualitatively measure the lag in each case. I couldn't see a repeatable difference. If there was a repeatable difference, it was smaller than I could detect and basically insignificant.

This was a bit of a surprise to me. Like you say above, I was thinking that the different amounts of processing required on each signal within the 6768 would result in different latency.

Some possible explanations for why not:
(1) The time required for each conversion may be similar or the conversion process may be an insignificant part of the processing timeline.
480p to 1080p requires scaling but not deinterlacing
720p 1080p requires scaling but not deinterlacing
1080i to 1080p requires deinterlacing but not scaling
Probably one scaling algorithm is used for all cases. Perhaps regardless of input and output resolution, the scaling takes a similar amount of time, or the time required by scaling is a very small part of the processing timeline hence unnoticeable. I would expect the time required for scaling would be directly proportional to the input image pixel count. A 1080p image has roughly twice the pixels of a 720p image. So, the fact that the latency difference was very small says to me that the scaling is the easy part of image processing.
I guess deinterlacing takes a similar amount of time as the scaling.

(2) Samsung may have thought about the need for people to compensate for the video latency in their audio systems and deliberately kept the processing time constant regardless of how much was getting done (except game mode). So in cases where the processing is done early, they could just delay the data to keep it all delayed by the worst case amount. This would let people set an audio delay in their AV receiver or using an external delay box that was constant for all cases.

I hope (2) is the truth.

I've not yet played around with using other non-HDMI/DVI outputs of the Oppo into the 6768. Only configuration variations on the DVI so far.

-Dan

Dan ... I really think that the differences in processing time are well under the threshold of human perception.

Using a receiver to send audio to a surround sound system raises two questions:

1) Is there any way to adjust the volume of the audio going out of the TV's optical out so I don't have to change the volume level on the receiver whenever I change inputs? Specifically, the audio output from the 6168 to the receiver when watching OTA is basically inaudible, when the receiver is set to the same volume level as when watching a DVD. It's a little annoying to have to increase the volume every time I change to OTA, and even more annoying when changing back before decreasing the volume.

It looks to me that the 6168's menu audio volume controls only the 6168's speakers, not the optical out.

2) Is there any way to get the 6168 to display the db level of the receiver, when I'm using the optical out for the cable or OTA signal? When I use the Denon receiver to send a D*Tivo or DVD signal, the 6168 will display the audio signal level onscreen, which is nice. But I don't get that info when watching OTA or cable.

I still have the D*Tivo and DVD going through the 3803 receiver to the 6168 using component cables, and OTA sound to the 3803 via optical.

Eric Stahlfeld
Seattle

Well, I get to keep the 5078. :-)

Replaced a bunch of cabling. Helped a little. Deleted all the empty digital channels. Actually comcast seems to be sending out the on-demand stuff unscrambled, so lots of channels are only sometimes empty - but now they are gone.

Toy story on DVD looked really nice. My wife and kids watched it while I cooked dinner. Last night we watched a concert on HD-PBS, and it sounded amazing (new Denon receiver and Energy towers); and with the picture it was just like being there.

I agreed to get her an HTPC and get the 5078 color calibrated. She likes the idea of showing her digital photos in the living room. Fortunately I have tons of HTPC equipment from my job, just been avoiding the hassle of setting up a full system. The calibration will cost me a few bucks. But I'm happy that I get to keep the 50" screen instead of going back to a CRT.

Overall, I'm happy. The picture quality is good enough for my purpose, and my wife seems willing to live with it. Especially now that she has seem some true HD content.

The degree to which lag is noticeable on a game system and HL-R definitely varies depending on the type of game. I've gone through only a few of my games so far and like others say, it is very noticeable on first person shooters (Halo 2, Medal of Honour). But it is less noticeable on Diablo style hack-slash games. I can still feel it on all the games I've tried but its not as bad on some.


Is it safe to assume the lag you are describing with Halo 2 is on campaign mode? If you are playing via Xbox Live, it's going to be very hard to discern between network lag and video lag.

Well, it's been of week of wiring Bubba up and until yesterday everything was only getting better and better.


My configuration:
Dish 811 A/V -->6768
A -->Felston-->Audio Amp
Oppo A/V -->6768
A -->Felston-->Audio Amp

Felston delay for both Dish and Oppo set to approximately 103 milliseconds
Oppo and 811 output resolution set to 1080i definitely produces the best (outstanding!)
picture.

811/6768/Oppo PQ Issues: Digital compression (small to big blocks) in blacks on some material. Annoying but tolerable. Analog SD actually didn't look all that awful, big but a little soft.

6768 screen issue: There appears to be a "brush stroke of shadow" near the top of the screen. It is invisible in most scenes, but becomes noticeable in black and white material and in some scenes of solid color. I spoke to Samsung tech support and the explanation that made some sense was this: The screen is actually to pieces of film. The inner piece is a fresnel lens and outer is the one exposed to the world. The two pieces of film are supposed to have a small separation between them. It could be that there is some condensation has been trapped between the two layers or that the two layers are actually touching. The tech said that the screen can be replaced as a unit. We'll see what happens.

Dish 942: I had intended to hold off on another expenditure for awhile, but decided I couldn't wait and upgraded to the 942 yesterday. (The 942 upgrade also involved switching satellite dish LNBs.)

PQ issues after the upgrade: Analog OTA channels look like crap. Very compressed, both from a digital compression sense (large blocky areas) and a video level sense (crushed blacks). Digital images seem to have a lot more digital breakup than before.

Audio issues after the 942 upgrade: I noticed an increasing amount of audio dropout Dish sources. I shut of the set, came back later and it was worse, both on live and DVR sources . I shut off the set. I came back later and all audio drop outs had magically disappeared. Up until this "magic" healing, I considered that this must be a problem with the new 942 because I've had the set for a week with no such problem. Now, I don't know.

I've read here that people have had times when the audio on their sets would disappear and then come back, but I don't remember seeing anything about drop outs.

Jim

Monday morning addendum: Most, if not all of new 942 (possibly related) problems seem to go away. Just hope that it's permanent.

Funkyboss, if your cable provider does not provide HD, THEN GET SATELITTE! Your missing out on what your TV was designed for! :( :( :(

A question for anyone using the internal cable tuner... I can't seem to get any cable channels above 135 to tune in on my 6168. I only get the extended basic analog channels up to about channel 65. My cable company (Mediacom) offers digital cable channels (non-HD) on channels 201 and up that you can get with a digital cable box. After an "Autoprogram" I still don't see these channels. Am I doing something wrong? How can I tell if these channels are "encrypted" or whatever which would prevent me from receiving them without the cable box? Also, I'm not talking about the premium channels like HBO, etc. I'm talking about the digital basic channels like Noggin, VH1 Classic, etc...

You can try the S97, but a 100 ms AV sync max it is not going to a complete solution and broadcast AV sync issues are more common than DVD ... so your best bet is to get a solution that can handle all of your inputs.

Honestly, I am amazed by the resistance to buying a AV sync solution ... clearly people are seeing this issue tied to the TV, and not part of setting up a flexible, capable system.

I agree, Clearly some type of audio sync is needed - and I doubt that this is Sammy specific; it is just the nature of the a) extensive video processing that is required for 1080p in particular and b)when not using the audio thru the sammy losing the built in audio syncing.
Depending of course on what one already owns in the AVR dept (and how old, etc) I think perhaps that the better way to go is with a new HDMI AVR which has integrated audio sync. While many would prefer to go for a "best of breed" solution" and keep on adding boxes, I would prefer to replace my 4 year old Pioneer Elite recvr with a new unit; starting to research this but not ready to buy.
I know this is off-topic - there dont seem to be particular threads in the audio/rcvr forum that are up to date and one place to look; sort of spoiled by this one sammy thread.

I agree, Clearly some type of audio sync is needed - and I doubt that this is Sammy specific;

Isn't that the rub?? Samsung has a history of hardware related lip synch problems (not to be confused with lip synch that is source related)
when the other manufacturers don't have it.

........Depending of course on what one already owns in the AVR dept (and how old, etc) I think perhaps that the better way to go is with a new HDMI AVR which has integrated audio sync. While many would prefer to go for a "best of breed" solution" and keep on adding boxes, I would prefer to replace my 4 year old Pioneer Elite recvr with a new unit; starting to research this but not ready to buy.
I know this is off-topic - there dont seem to be particular threads in the audio/rcvr forum that are up to date and one place to look; sort of spoiled by this one sammy thread.


Well, this is exactly what I'm wondering about. I'm about to upgrade to something "recent", probably Yamaha AVR with HDMI switching, but copy protection implementation rules won't let digital audio and video share the same HDMI cable.

So, if I must connect my HDMI cable from the source material directly to the DLP, why should I consider HDMI switching from an AVR at all?

What are the benefits of an HDMI connection in the AVR?

Would it only be the business of the possible "sync issue"?

Got my 6168. Hooking it up to my Samsung950 DVD player. The DVD player came with a HDMI cable which is nice because it saves a few bucks; but the cable looks kind-of cheap in quality.
Question: Since it is digital anyway, it there an advantage to upgrading cable to a better quality (monster or such) - or would it be a waste of money since I already have the HDMI cable that came with the DVD player?

Is there any concensus yet on a good setup for the 6168?
(contrast/brightness/color/... warm1-2-...) or any other settings
for improvements right out of the box.

You can try the S97, but a 100 ms AV sync max it is not going to a complete solution and broadcast AV sync issues are more common than DVD ... so your best bet is to get a solution that can handle all of your inputs.

Except from my experience 100ms of the S97 is all that is needed. I haven't changed it for any dvd and every movie I've watched (now getting up there in count) has been perfect as far as audio sync goes. With regards to cable tv I have not encountered a sync problem in over 2 weeks. DVR'd material and live material all play perfectly fine. This issue is definitely a "wait until you get your tv and see what it looks like before spending 200+ more on a solution that you might not need in your situation" kind of thing.

Isn't that the rub?? Samsung has a history of hardware related lip synch problems (not to be confused with lip synch that is source related)
when the other manufacturers don't have it.

no, all manufacturers have it to some degree. the samsung processing seems to take very slightly longer the the others, but it is the nature of the beast. comparisons with the recently released mitsubishsi's showed both brands of 1080p sets showed some lag as compared to other sets.

Dear Wish..... feeling a bit of buyer's remorse for getting the Samsung-branded stand. Yes, it is sized to fit the TVs pedestal bottom, and priced per its quality. But it does have limited component space (only one shelf) and I now think it makes the TV itself look "cheaper" than it is. Try to find one in a store to view, because I think it looks better on The Samsumg website than in reality.
Besides looking for a stand with the component storage you need, please carefully consider the overall height of your choice. The TR61X2 totals about 17"H which is perfect for my setup, but many other stands measure higher. That might be an important factor for you. I will probably be looking for something more "furniture-grade" at a later date.

yup, the stand is terrible. it doesn't hold my components. and the omnimount center channel speaker holder i got won't work on the 6168. bummer. so i am resorting to putting the center channel speaker below the tv instead of above it and have to move my components to another unit. the wife wasn't pleased at all and i had a few choice swear words. if i had realized this i would have gotten another tv stand. maybe it's just as well since i couldn't put the center channel above the set.

since i'm using a 3805 receiver, i have accounted for any lag and things are all in sync here audio/video wise.

sd programming looks terrible, but dvd's look nice. i still really need to tweak this thing to see what it's capable of. i think it can do much better than what i'm seeing right now.

Is there any concensus yet on a good setup for the 6168?
(contrast/brightness/color/... warm1-2-...) or any other settings
for improvements right out of the box.

From my SpyderTV calibration:

First set gamma to 0. You'll find referrences on how to do this in this thread.

Then:
Standard setting.
Warm 2
Contrast 96
Brightness 53
Color 44

Expecting my 5668 any day now and had a couple of questions for you all here.

1. I currently have a Pioneer DVD player that only does ProgScan with Component outputs. I want to upgrade my DVD player before the TV gets here, but I don't know if going to the local Worst Buy and getting an upconverting unit (Samsung/Toshiba) for ~$175 is the right choice? I've seen a lot of talk about an Oppo unit, but can't remember the model, maybe a Denon? Are these more expensive units with more video processing features worth the added cost?

2. I currently don't have a center channel speaker because the Toshiba 57" HDTV I had before allowed me to output the center channel from the receiver to the TV and use the TV speakers as the center channel speaker. Does the 5668 have this feature or am I going to need to buy that speaker now?

Thanks!

Question: Since it is digital anyway, it there an advantage to upgrading cable to a better quality (monster or such) - or would it be a waste of money since I already have the HDMI cable that came with the DVD player?It's a waste of money unless your cable fails. If that happens there are many sources for HDMI, HDMI > DVI, and DVI cables for around $30 that are well built and work fine for shorter runs of a few meters.

I know it's expensive but check out the Bello AVS-2601 stand. It will hold everything and looks great. It has room for five devices plus a center speaker. As soon as my 6768 arrives I'll take some photos.

I like the idea of the OPPO but I have an RCA DirecTV HD receiver. It only has DVI out. Since the Oppo has only DVI out I can't hook them both up at the same time!
Any work arounds?

I like the idea of the OPPO but I have an RCA DirecTV HD receiver. It only has DVI out. Since the Oppo has only DVI out I can't hook them both up at the same time!
Any work arounds?Sure. Use digital HDMI cables that have a DVI connector on one end. They work exactly the same as cables with HDMI connectors on both ends for video content.

I like the idea of the OPPO but I have an RCA DirecTV HD receiver. It only has DVI out. Since the Oppo has only DVI out I can't hook them both up at the same time!
Any work arounds?

The HL-Rxxx8W series of TVs don't have any DVI inputs. They do have 2 HDMI inputs and you'll have to get a DVI to HDMI adaptor cable for both your Sat Box and OPPO. You can order the OPPO with the correct cable direct from OPPO or some of the resellers.

I like the idea of the OPPO but I have an RCA DirecTV HD receiver. It only has DVI out. Since the Oppo has only DVI out I can't hook them both up at the same time!
Any work arounds?


There are no audio hookups for HDMI1 when using DVI, but most people do not use there TV for DVD audio so put it on HDMI1 and hook your DVD to the AVR.

Hmmmm. It is hard for me to believe you have zero lag with a PS2. What input are you using and what are your configuration settings to achieve this result? Do you have game mode on? What sort of games have you tried?

The degree to which lag is noticeable on a game system and HL-R definitely varies depending on the type of game. I've gone through only a few of my games so far and like others say, it is very noticeable on first person shooters (Halo 2, Medal of Honour). But it is less noticeable on Diablo style hack-slash games. I can still feel it on all the games I've tried but its not as bad on some.

There shouldn't be much system setup variation between users on game systems since there are really only two game systems people talk about (PS2, XBox) and no intervening equipment. So we can all recreate these game system scenarios given the same game system, an HL-R, and the same game.

-Dan

Hi , I hook it up for my son , so Im not an expert on gaming. But I run an optical cable from The play station to my AV Reciever . So the audio never goes into the Samsung TV. The synch is perfect to my eyes . Hope that helps.

I am pretty sure the synch and lag they are referring to isn't the audio/video timing but rather the lag that comes from hitting a button on the controller to when that action is taking place on the screen.

Hey guys, they've really been dumping on the Sammy 1080p's in the CEDIA threads, in regard to the sxrd. But I remember reports from a few weeks ago that the new Sammies were comparable to, or better than, the Qualia 06. Have things changed, or is the enthusiasm for the sxrd just because it's the newest kid on the block?

Wondering about the position of the rear conection panel - I haven't been able to find any pictures or specs identifying its location on the back of the Sammy.

Is it centered horizontally?
How far up from the base of the TV is it located?

I'm trying to figure out how long a VGA cable I'm gonna need from my 'puter, and I may be able to get away with 25 feet if the connection on the back of the TV is centered (or on the left side) and not too high. If not, has anybody seen 30' cables anywhere? I'd hate to move up to 50 feet of cable!!

Thanks.

Hey guys, they've really been dumping on the Sammy 1080p's in the CEDIA threads, in regard to the sxrd. But I remember reports from a few weeks ago that the new Sammies were comparable to, or better than, the Qualia 06. Have things changed, or is the enthusiasm for the sxrd just because it's the newest kid on the block?

Those "people" (and I use that word lightly) are the same tools that will jump into an OS thread debating whether OSX is better than Windows. Its a freaking tv. The only thing that matters is whether someone likes the picture or not and yet they enjoy hearing themselves spout off about fake 1080p or fake quality levels or whatever else is stuck up their butts this hour. Some people are so dramatic they deserve oscars.

Is it centered horizontally?
How far up from the base of the TV is it located?

If you are standing in front of the tv looking at the screen it is on the right side in the back. Its pretty near the bottom of the main tv base. If I remember correctly a few inches up. I bought a 9 foot hdmi cable to run from that side across the whole length of the tv to my audio rack for the 6168 model. Just find the specs on the size of the tv and decide which side your computer is going to go and buy a little longer than that.

Hey guys, they've really been dumping on the Sammy 1080p's in the CEDIA threads, in regard to the sxrd. But I remember reports from a few weeks ago that the new Sammies were comparable to, or better than, the Qualia 06. Have things changed, or is the enthusiasm for the sxrd just because it's the newest kid on the block?The high praise for the 1080p Samsungs that I read was from calibrations by SethS, Eliab and David Abrams, and had to do with the 1080p Samsung's outstanding ability to be calibrated to ISF standards.

David pointed pointed out that the right equipment and methods had to be used, and that he couldn't recommend them without a qualified calibration.

David Abrams #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6061619&&#post6061619)

David Abrams #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6067770&&#post6067770)

SethS Calibration Report (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6074893&&#post6074893)

Eliab's 2080p Summary (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6117847&&#post6117847)

"You Know Who" accused them of being beholden to Samsung and therefore worthless.

I haven't been able to find any thoughtful comments from CEDIA on the 1080p sets. Maybe I've missed the messages you are referring to.

I think we all know by now not to take too much notice of SammiK, Gazelle, etc. Samsung bashing posts ;)
I sure do hope that I'm not perceived as a Samsung basher just because their 1080p TV didn't work out for me and I'm tending toward Sony to meet my particular needs.Nope. :)

Is it safe to assume the lag you are describing with Halo 2 is on campaign mode? If you are playing via Xbox Live, it's going to be very hard to discern between network lag and video lag.
Took my xbox to the local ultimate electronics yesterday to test out the tv's to see how bad the lag really is. I played some split-screen Halo 2 campaign with a friend on both the 6178 and the Mitsubishi WD-62628. The lag was very noticeable on both tv's and it made it rather difficult to play with any skill. Grenades took a second before they were thrown, the aiming reticule would seem to keep moving after you stopped, etc. Playing on Live would only compound the problem.

The lag is bad enough to keep me from buying either one of those tv's. I was so excited about getting a new tv too, but i'm not sure what i'm going to do now.

I have had my 6168 for about 4 days now. I am certainly not in the same league of many of the experts that frequent this forum and I am coming from and old but faithful 48" Sony rear projection TV. My current equipment consists of"

Samsung 6168 connected to SA4200HD cablebox via DVI and via Cablecard.
Sony 555ES Receiver
Samsung HD950 (toslink to Sony, HDMI to Samsung 6168))
Monitor Audio Speakers

HD programming--- Picture quality is superb on cablebox and cablecard. No lipsynch issues so far.

SD programming---Very acceptable with cablecard. Not as good via the cablebox and DVI. Cable company initially set up cablebox wrong by passing 480i signals which Samsung does not handle well. Changed it to 1080i, 720p and 480p. Much better but picture exhibits more noise via the cablebox and picture is not as sharp as with the cablecard. Haven't seen rainbows !

Samsung 950---This player is probably not as good as the others reviewed by UCSB but I have no serious complaints. The brightness of the front panel display is bright and the HDMI Audio Not supported message is annoying. Perhaps I'm just not as critical and discerning as others. I will wait for HD-DVD.


Problems

Only problem right now appears to be slight pincushioning which I can see on 4:3 SD broadcasts. Will probably call SS to adjust. Am not brave enough to use the service menu...

Haven't gotten TV Guide working yet. Will this synch over the cablecard as I answered NO to the question about a cablebox and will be mostly using the cablecard input and probably get rid of the cablebox? I don't use the On Demand services much and the one-way cablecard is fine for me.

Can't seem to figure out why the "Name" field isn't available for the cablecard input either. This is particularly a problem for my family who relies on the cablebox to display the channel name and program that is currently tuned... Back to the manual for that one.

Finally, let me thank everyone who has provided tremendous input to newbies like me and special thanks to UCSB for his great work!

Rich please excuse my ignorance, but the picture quality is better on SD with Cablevision thru the TV tuner or the cable box or both?

Thanks,
Carl


I have Cablevision in NJ and recently had a cablecard installed. I can confirm PQ is much better than via the HD cablebox. HD broadcasts seem about the same.

I think we all know by now not to take too much notice of SammiK, Gazelle, etc. Samsung bashing posts ;)
I sure do hope that I'm not perceived as a Samsung basher just because their 1080p TV didn't work out for me and I'm tending toward Sony to meet my particular needs.

Hey, I've been around long enough not to pay too much attention to Gazelle and SammiK, but you are certainly not in that category! I have always valued your thoughts very much, as a non-partisan trying to find honest answers to honest questions. I'm just still in a quandry, waiting for the 70+" Sammy and Mits to appear; it seems that different models/sizes of these sets have had different degrees of success (at least judged by the comments I've read).

Isn't that the rub?? Samsung has a history of hardware related lip synch problems (not to be confused with lip synch that is source related)
when the other manufacturers don't have it.


Check this out for a better understanding of the lip sync issue, http://lipfix.com/technical_details.html, the problem is far more complex than you might believe.

Decided to brave the SM to adjust gamma and thanks to millerwill for the step by steps although it is different on the HLR than the earlier models. Whilst in the SM I decided to look around and noticed in the GM1601 menu an item that says Gamma control which can be set on or off. It was set off. Does this have to be on in order to get the benefit of the gamma change? You can see the picture change as you change this from off to on. Anyone know?

Also.. this may be basic but is there any functional difference between the various picture modes outside of the fact that movie will not let you change color tone. Is it just that you can set up 4 different settings or is there something else that I am missing?

And on the never ending sync issue. I have put in a 60ms delay on both the DVD and STB inputs on my AVR and it has smoothed the problem out to the point where it has been unoticeable (and this over 4 weeks of watching) on any of the sources except for Discovery HD over DTV which was comical before and now is just a little bit silly. I found a lot of variance before I put in the delay from channel to channel and DVD to DVD but the 60 ms seems to be a good compromise that works well enough with most everything that you don't notice it. I would think that this should work pretty well for most situations. Gaming may be another issue however.

Expecting my 5668 any day now and had a couple of questions for you all here. 1. I currently have a Pioneer DVD player that only does ProgScan with Component outputs.

I wouldn't rush out to upgrade your DVD player ASAP. I also have a plane-jane Toshiba progressive-scan DVD player outputting over component, and I think it looks *fantastic* on my 5078. I think the TVs internal scaler does a perfectly fine job on DVDs. Will a killer upconverting player do a better job? Yeah, probably. But you're still probably going to be impressed with how your current DVD player looks, my guess is you can afford to take some time to research your DVD player purchase in more detail.

You should use OTHER HOLES on the omni stand to get it working, the default "front" holes won't work. :) I have it set up and it works perfect.

yup, the stand is terrible. it doesn't hold my components. and the omnimount center channel speaker holder i got won't work on the 6168. bummer. so i am resorting to putting the center channel speaker below the tv instead of above it and have to move my components to another unit. the wife wasn't pleased at all and i had a few choice swear words. if i had realized this i would have gotten another tv stand. maybe it's just as well since i couldn't put the center channel above the set.

since i'm using a 3805 receiver, i have accounted for any lag and things are all in sync here audio/video wise.

sd programming looks terrible, but dvd's look nice. i still really need to tweak this thing to see what it's capable of. i think it can do much better than what i'm seeing right now.

Decided to brave the SM to adjust gamma and thanks to millerwill for the step by steps although it is different on the HLR than the earlier models.

The credit for this is to Htwaits (I simply asked the question!) who told us how to do it.

aaronwt - How much improvement do you see in SD with your DVDO? ( also put this in video processor section)

Much better running through the HD+ than straight to the TV. A big difference to me.

I wish the firmware would remember the Noise Reduction setting. It defaults to off, and if I change it to on it won't keep that settings. It definitely helps on a noisy picture, but the only way I can view the results is in the SM mode since as soon as the TV turns off it reverts back to the default setting of off. Trying to change it in the user menu does nothing. There is no effect on the picture, like when in the SM. It is very noticeable on a noisy picture.

The credit for this is to Htwaits (I simply asked the question!) who told us how to do it.

I stand corrected on the credit - thank you htwaits. The questions still stand however.

Since I am not a techie nor do I understand many of the things that are discussed on this thread, I can only say that I am very glad that I purchased the 6768. I am enjoying it immensely.

The picture is phenomenal. The colors are what you expect to see. no over saturation.

:D :D :D

Much better running through the HD+ than straight to the TV. A big difference to me.

I wish the firmware would remember the Noise Reduction setting. It defaults to off, and if I change it to on it won't keep that settings. It definitely helps on a noisy picture, but the only way I can view the results is in the SM mode since as soon as the TV turns off it reverts back to the default setting of off. Trying to change it in the user menu does nothing. There is no effect on the picture, like when in the SM. It is very noticeable on a noisy picture.

Did ELIAB set it in the service menu when he calibrated your set?

Is anyone having the same bad experience I am?
I jumped in line for a HLR 6768 in mid-June. Three weeks ago I was told one was ready for me. At that time they needed to know if I still wanted it even with the extra shipping cost (I live in Hawaii). I said yes and ship it as soon as possible. A week or more later someone else calls me and asks if I still wanted it and if they should ship it (AGAIN!!!!). I say yes (AGAIN!!!). A week later I receive an email from the shipping company (SEKO) stating it is on its way. After calling SEKO to confirm it, it turns out that SEKO went to TV Authority to pick up a 6768 for me but there were none left. Back to square one.
What the hell was the point in getting in line a long time ago when it was just flat out ignored? Anyone else having a bad experience? I am thinking of going locally for the TV at this point. Comments, concerns welcomed.

still having problems with my 6168W.

received it 3 weeks ago. had dish dvr 942 on hdmi 1 working, oppo dvd on hdmi 2 working. moved stuff around (with tv off). never have gotten a picture on hdmi 2 since with either the oppo,dvr or computer. also oppo did not work on hdmi 1.

1 week ago
got a new oppo. followed the whole unplug everything before hooking up thing on hdmi 1 and hdmi 2. still oppo no work on either. (this with 3 different generic dvi to hdmi cables)

3 days ago
local tv place who do not have this model in their mega stores yet replaced my digital board . oppo no work on either 1 or 2. dvr worked for 2 minutes on hdmi 2. moved stuff around (with everything unplugged) and can not get a picture with anything on hdmi port 2. computer/dvr works fine on hdmi 1.

local tv place is going to come out next week to look at it. going to get another oppo with better cables this week.

anyone have any idea whats wrong with this thing besides a bad repair job?

anyone else having this problem with hdmi ports? if they are this sensitive why not have a locking mechanism like dvi or vga ports?

No problem with mine. I have disconnected and connected them several times while the equipment was active without any problems. Although now after reading about some of the problems people have had, If I do disconnect it now, I make sure the power is off. I am using the Ram REV2 HDMI cables from the AVS discount for their cables. The Oppo has RAM Rev2 HDMI to DVI cable. Though I won't be using it anymore until I get my VP30. I have 4 HDMI/DVI devices and only a 2 way HDMI switch, and I decided to use my Sony 975 when I got my TV calibrated.

I know it's expensive but check out the Bello AVS-2601 stand. It will hold everything and looks great. It has room for five devices plus a center speaker. As soon as my 6768 arrives I'll take some photos.

This stand is 21-in high. You may find out that it is too high for your 6768. I have 6168, and my 20-in stand is too high for it. Ideally, when seated, your direct line of sight should align with the center of the screen.

Since I am not a techie nor do I understand many of the things that are discussed on this thread, I can only say that I am very glad that I purchased the 6768. I am enjoying it immensely.

The picture is phenomenal. The colors are what you expect to see. no over saturation.

:D :D :D

I am really liking my 6768 also.

Question: When people first started receiving their sets many of the owners were saying they really liked the Movie mode the best. I find with the 67" I have been keeping it in standard mode. Could the picture be a little darker on the 67" the Movie mode looks good just doesn't seem bright enough to me.

Jeff

I stand corrected on the credit - thank you htwaits. The questions still stand however.I have an HLP set. From what I've read in this thread, gamma is located in the same place in HLR sets. Look for it in the DDP1011 option on the first menu page of the SM. Just change it's value from 2 to 0. That's all you should do.

Access to the SM is also the same as all previous Samsung models. Let us know what problem you are having finding the gamma variable.

Originally posted on 9/5

I received my 6768 from TVA on Friday...

I'm surprised and saddened by the fact that I see rainbows. I've never been able to see them in the stores, even in a darkened room. I have not seen any rainbows during the day, but at night they are obvious whenever I turn my head to look away from the screen. I'd say I can see maybe 6 or so an hour on average. This is in a lighted room with a backlight behind the set as well. I haven't decided how much this will be a problem for me. If it becomes a real annoyance, I may have to use TVA's 30 day return policy. I need to do a lot more viewing at all times of day to determine how much of an issue this will be for me. Any suggestions for decreasing rainbows will be appreciated.

Not the set's at fault, but another problem I experienced is poor cable signal. I convinced my local TWC office to provide me an HD8300 DVR without waiting for a tech to come out. My mistake. Now, after about 5-10 minutes of viewing my picture goes out and I receive the "weak or no signal" message. I have a tech scheduled for next Saturday to provide an amplifier which I hope will resolve the problem.



Turns out that my cable signal was not the problem after all. The TW tech quickly determined that the signal to my home was actually quite good. He switched out the box, and the new one had the same problem. He tried every possible connection including coax straight into the set, and my tv would not accept the cable signal. At best, the picture might come on for about 5 minutes and then the "weak or no signal" message appears. My other TV (analog) works fine.

Before this problem I was already considering sending the 6768 back due to RBE. I never expected to see rainbows, but they were there from the first movie I viewed (The Perfect Storm). I found them pretty distracting, and especially apparent whenever I looked away from the screen for a moment. Indeed, once the cable problem was identified I was sort of relieved that fate had made the decision for me -- send the set back. But I love the size of the set, looks of the case, DVD picture, and the brief HD I got to see. Dang! I've been saving/waiting for over 2 years for my first HDTV, and now I have to start the search all over again. Looks like it will have to be some version of LCoS for me.

BTW, TVA has been very classy about returning the set without my wanting a replacement 6768.

As many of you know I had my LE replaced with a new unit because of a number of issues, mostly geometry based. I was not happy with the swap. While it did fix the geometry the picture was noticeably softer, I had lots of noise/artifacts and an overall greenish cast.

I contacted the service technician and asked for my old LE back. He still had it and will come back with it Sat and try to work on the DMD a bit out of the set to see if we can fix the geometry issues. I did not talk to him first hand but he left v-mail.

He also left a bomb in his message. He told me the new LE was not a SS part, but came from somewhere else. I was shocked and he stated he was not aware of this before. I will find out Sat where it came from and who provided it (his co or SS.. Note he is an authorized SS repair facility and his truck is only labeled with SS).

So those in the process of getting a new LE may want to check the part before you swap it out.

Your digital channels (SD and HD) are probably sub-channels. If you pull up the list of channels captured during the scan you should discover the sub-channels.
Yes, I re-scanned and they show up now. Unfortunately, they all seem to be scrambled. The only ones that I can tune to are the 50 or so music channels. Kinda worthless. :(

Funkyboss, if your cable provider does not provide HD, THEN GET SATELITTE! Your missing out on what your TV was designed for! :( :( :(
Yes, I know! I used to have Voom until they went belly-up. Now I'm trying to decide between D* and E*. With the new MPEG4 on the way, I think I'll wait for that hardware to come out.

He also left a bomb in his message. He told me the new LE was not a SS part, but came from somewhere else.If Samsung has out sourced their 1080p light engines that would sure be a deal killer for a lot of people -- unless they are getting them from SIM2 or Loewe. :)

I tried to watch The Aviator tonight and the picture was beautiful in all ways but one fairly important one.

The colors were screwed up. The green was replaced by blue.

The equipment is the HL-R6768 and the Denon 1920. Connection is HDMI at 1080i. I tried RGB and YCrCb with no difference between them.

I've watched other movies in this configuration and had green. Where did it go?

I even tried the Oppo DVD player and it also has the same blue for green substitution problem. So its not the DVD player. Is it the TV? Or the DVD?? Argh.

Help!

Thanks
-Dan

I've watched other movies in this configuration and had green. Where did it go?It sounds like time to call Samsung, or request an exchange from your dealer.

It sounds like time to call Samsung, or request an exchange from your dealer.

Ugh, a defective TV would be very unhappy for me. This 67" beast is a real pain to move around.

Now I'm really confused.

Some parts of this Aviator DVD has the blue for green replacement problem and others do not.
Chapter 6 looks bad, a few minutes into it at the golf course scene, the grass and trees are all blue.
Chapter 11 looks bad, the plants in the house right at the beginning are all blue.
Chapter 14 looks fine, very bright green lawns, trees, etc. No sign of trouble.

Anyone else have The Aviator to try on HDMI to an HL-R? Its hard to believe they could have screwed the DVD up in such a serious way!

Thanks
-Dan

I tried to watch The Aviator tonight and the picture was beautiful in all ways but one fairly important one.

The colors were screwed up. The green was replaced by blue.



Aviator was one of my first DVDs to be played on my Oppo and my 6768. I noticed the same blue for green substitution. I, also, had an anxious moment.

However, to verify my suspicion that we are seeing a heretofore unnoticed Scorcese aethethic choice, I just played the movie on my G5 w/Cinema Display. Yep, blue for green. You're dealing with a Scorcese aesthetic choice . I trust my Cinema Display colors implicitly.

from: http://www.flipcritic.net/archives/000113.html

Aside from the affecting sensibility of his themes, Mr. Scorcese also provides a wondrous period for our senses to dwell in. Together with Art and Set Directors Dante Ferretti and Francesca LoSchiavo (GANGS OF NEW YORK), with Cinematographer Robert Richardson (JFK) and Costumer Designer Sandy Powell (SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE), he has created one of the most captivating American wartime period pieces ever made. He does so not only using locales and equipment pertinent to the time, he also uses film techniques used during the same period.

For instance, if you notice a club scene where Mr. Hughes meets Errol Flynn (Jude Law), you would notice peas on a plate with a hue of turquoise instead of green. This is exactly the way peas would have appeared in the primitive two-strip Technicolor process used during that same period. As Mr. Hughes ages throughout the film, the color becomes richer and more textured. This results in a vibrant film, alive in its look as well as its story.


Jim

I just played the movie on my G5 w/Cinema Display. Yep, blue for green. You're dealing with a Scorcese aesthetic choice . I trust my Cinema Display colors implicitly.I'll try it on mine tomorrow, but it sounds like you have solved dgilley's problem. :)

Aviator was one of my first DVDs to be played on my Oppo and my 6768. I noticed the same blue for green substituion. I, also, had an anxious moment.

However, to verify my suspicion that we are seeing a heretofore unnoticed Scorcese aethethic choice, I just played the movie on my G5 w/Cinema Display. Yep, blue for green. You're dealing with a Scorcese aesthetic choice . I trust my Cinema Display colors implicitly.

from: http://www.flipcritic.net/archives/000113.html

Aside from the affecting sensibility of his themes, Mr. Scorcese also provides a wondrous period for our senses to dwell in. Together with Art and Set Directors Dante Ferretti and Francesca LoSchiavo (GANGS OF NEW YORK), with Cinematographer Robert Richardson (JFK) and Costumer Designer Sandy Powell (SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE), he has created one of the most captivating American wartime period pieces ever made. He does so not only using locales and equipment pertinent to the time, he also uses film techniques used during the same period.

For instance, if you notice a club scene where Mr. Hughes meets Errol Flynn (Jude Law), you would notice peas on a plate with a hue of turquoise instead of green. This is exactly the way peas would have appeared in the primitive two-strip Technicolor process used during that same period. As Mr. Hughes ages throughout the film, the color becomes richer and more textured. This results in a vibrant film, alive in its look as well as its story.
Jim

Thanks Jim! That's great news. I'm falling in love with this TV and DVD player hence I need them to work correctly.

Strange that I don't remember seeing the blue grass and trees when I saw the Aviator in the theatre. Hmmmm. But the text you found above is very convincing that this is deliberate. Strange, but deliberate!

-Dan

I am really liking my 6768.

Question: When people first started receiving their sets many of the owners were saying they really liked the Movie mode the best. I find with the 67" I have been keeping it in standard mode. Could the picture be a little darker on the 67" the Movie mode looks good just doesn't seem bright enough to me.

Jeff

I have a 6168, but keep it in standard also. The movie mode isn't bright enough for me either.

Watching the US Open in HD was absolutely awesome.

Thanks Jim! That's great news. I'm falling in love with this TV and DVD player hence I need them to work correctly.

Strange that I don't remember seeing the blue grass and trees when I saw the Aviator in the theatre. Hmmmm. But the text you found above is very convincing that this is deliberate. Strange, but deliberate!

-Dan

I have it on reasonably good authority that this story is true....

Many years ago a videotape technician setting up a showing of a tape for network air checks in with "Switching Central" as was standard operating procedure. "There's your color bars" reports the VT operator. "Bars look good" reports back Switching Central. Then after a pause, Switching Central hears, "Switching Central, there is something terribly wrong with the program material. We set up to bars, yet all the characters in this show are BLUE!!!. Let me tweak the phase to make them flesh colored."

This was the first episode of the Smurfs.

Cheers!
Jim

I have a 6168, but keep it in standard also. The movie mode isn't bright enough for me either.

Watching the US Open in HD was absolutely awesome.

I agree the movie mode isn't quite bright enough for daytime viewing or even viewing in a fully lit room. I use the movie mode when I'm watching TV in the dark or near dark as the standard mode is so bright under these circumstances that it starts to strain my eyes (and the rest of the viewers agree). There are advantages in picture quality/detail as well since in a dark room in movie mode I find that subtle background details, shadowed areas, etc. look really great, better than standard mode which oversaturates a little.

But during the day I use standard. I have pretty good stray light blocking by my window shades so I've not had need of dynamic mode but if I was in a really brightly lit room I'd probably use that mode under those circumstances.

I've cranked the brightness and contrast up on my custom mode to the point of stupidity and I use that for playing video games (XBox) sometimes. I don't know why the video game authors like to make the dark areas of games SO DARK that you can't see anything unless you crank up your TV to insane levels or you get eaten by the bogie man.

-Dan

"...He also left a bomb in his message. He told me the new LE was not a SS part, but came from somewhere else. I was shocked and he stated he was not aware of this before. I will find out Sat where it came from and who provided it (his co or SS.. Note he is an authorized SS repair facility and his truck is only labeled with SS).

So those in the process of getting a new LE may want to check the part before you swap it out. .."

Interesting...

My HLN 567W had the LE replaced twice, with bad results...It has now been at Ultimate electronics for two months while Warrantech "decides" whether to replace or repair.

I think they are leaning toward replace, and I will get a dollar amount to purchase a new set.

I am leaning toward a 62" Mits.

This stand is 21-in high. You may find out that it is too high for your 6768. I have 6168, and my 20-in stand is too high for it. Ideally, when seated, your direct line of sight should align with the center of the screen.

Perhaps, but at 15 feet viewing distance this should not be a problem.

Now that i got my 6168 I'm trying to get the best (but reasonably priced)protection for it. I was disappointed to hear that the belkin AP30800-10 and belkin pf60 could not be daisy chained together...(ups into wall and pf60 into ups). I was wondering if this would be a better solution; plug both the ups and pf60 into the wall and plug only the tv (samsung 6168) into the ups and everything else (receiver, dvd, hd box, xbox) into the pf60. Nothing is connected to my tv except the av receiver via component cable. This way the tv bulb can have the protection from overheating in case of a power outage and the surge protection would be enough since only the tv is plugged in, granted the line conditioning would be lost for the tv. The rest of the equipment would get the line conditioning and since they are doing most of the processing I feel like it would be a good idea. Just looking for anyone's opinion on if this is a good idea or just a waste of money...I've posted this in another forum on power protection and filtering but have gotten no response.

On a side not...I went to Circuit City last night and saw their belkin power protection display...when i looked in the back of the units they had 4 units daisy chained together...found it kind of funny

It may just be a problem with that set. I have a 6768 and have never seen these rainbows and nobody else that has viewed the set has either. Of course, it is possible that for some reason you have a type of vision that enables you to see these when others can't, but it may be worth a try. I can't imagine sending my set back.

It may just be a problem with that set. I have a 6768 and have never seen these rainbows and nobody else that has viewed the set has either.There is no "repair" for rainbows. You either see them or you don't.

If you are among those who see them rainbows either bother you are they don't. Variations in lighting conditions and eye movement can vary the frequency that an individual might see rainbows.

aaronwt or anyone that has had a calibration...

I'm a little confused to say the least. I thought I read that changes made in the service menu were not "sticking". Also UCSB's dynamic range problem has not been "solved". Considering these two problems, what good is a cal. at this point?

Guess I just want reassurance here, as I believe the answer is you would not have had a cal. if you were experiencing problems.

Correct?


Thanks,
Carl

I thought I read that changes made in the service menu were not "sticking".The variables that are not "sticking" are related to DNIe and not involved in a calibration unless there is more to the situation that hasn't been reported.

I purchased a 6768 a week ago and have a few questions. I am very happy this the set except for a small geometry issue. It’s pretty much only noticeable on the PC input, because you can see the windows taskbar on the bottom. On the bottom left side It “bumps” up a little (barreling I think??).

Am I over analyzing this? Should a Samsung tech look at this or a tv calibration person. Or should I not worry.

Thanks in advance
Jeff

Can someone post the pronto hex code for movie mode and custom mode?

That is all I need to complete the programming of my universal remotes. Thanks in advance.

I'll post my file up at jp1 remotes once I'm done so someone else with a jp1 remote can benefit.

Also UCSB's dynamic range problem has not been "solved". Considering these two problems, what good is a cal. at this point?The dynamic range problem shouldn't affect the set's ability to retain calibrated settings, since it is easy (albeit annoying) to reset the HDMI input to the correct dynamic range by switching picture mode for that input to something else and then back again. When you switch it back, the picture looks just as gorgeous as it was before you switched inputs.

I am about to take delivery of my HLR6168W and have been reading the last 15 or so pages of this thread. I have to admit to being a little overwhelmed. I was wondering if someone might be kind enough to me help me understand a few things. On page 163 or so there is talk about a serious problem that affects PQ quality when changing inputs. Can some explain what this problem is as it was hard for me to grasp it. Also, what are discrete codes and how are they related to this problem? I know more aboutg HT than 95% of the population but I find myself feeling very stupid sometimes on this board, lol. Thanks

Hi, first post here, but have been a reader of this forum for about 6 mos. I jumped on when trying to figure out which direction to go on my first HDTV. I have friends with older 480p/1080i sets and newer 720p sets and basically use them for comparison.

In the end I decided to go with the 5078 to get 1080p after looking at numerous sets at different stores, and finally against all the $6000+ sets at a high end shop. I paid $3000 on the nose for it new including white glove delivery (dont know if I can say where, great customer service, great website, authorized dealer). It showed up with both the box and unit in perfect condition, this was about 2 weeks ago. From the time I ordered it to the time it was delivered, from Chicago to Tampa was 1 week, just as advertised.

All I can say is this is the best set Ive seen. Everyone I know that has come over and owns there own HDTVs echo the same. I have tried both my Brighthouse digital/HD cable and OTA, and both are stunning. Though it depends on the channel, most SD channels are quite bearable all the way to excellent. As well, I have hooked up my PC through VGA and got just as impressive results. It came up in 1920x1080 with a clear desktop. The video card is an ATI 9700 Pro. I watched several MS 1080p sourced movies and they were flat out unbelievable. It nice to see where all this technology is headed. I played a bunch of PC games as well. The games (Madden 2006, Doom 3, etc) all looked great. What was more stunning was that the games had added 1920x1080 as a displayable resolution, and they ran fine?! I usually run around 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 for my games on my 23" monitor. Though 1600x1200 often results in a choppier, but playable game. When it went to 1920x0180, it ran at that resolution, but at great frame rates?! That was an unexpected suprise. I dont know if I was supposed to see a lag with those or just consoles, but none was present. I ned to hook up my brothers xBox this week to see if we get and through either component or RCA. I did pick up a component>DVI adaptor so I might try that as well with my HDMI adaptor.

All in all, its an amazing TV with few complaints. About the only one I can see is the occasional blotchiness on some faces/fleshtones though I havent adjusted anything yet. What I encounterd was almost mask like appearance to some faces where the face loss detail, though this is only on longer shots and not closeups. It looked great out of the box, with the exception of occasionally hot reds.

The one thing (besides the TV guide) that I cant get working is the dNet stuff. I have a JVC GR-DVM90u mini-DV camcorder with firewire. The TV recognizes that a camcorder is connected, but it cant do anything with it. It always say its not powered on despite the camcorder being on and playing, so I cant seem to use it with the TV, which is a disappointment. Hopefully theres a way around that.

Also, can someone confirm this. Am I seeing my 1080i sources as 1080p? It appears so. Because a 1080i signal contains both sets of lines, but normally only would display them interlaced, wouldnt the TV put them back together before displaying them during the 1080p upscale, thus really seeing a true 1080p display?

Other than that, I cant say one bad thing about the TV or my online ordering expereience, which is the first time Ive bought a large-ticket item like this online. For what I paid, I cant imagine getting more TV.

I purchased a 6768 a week ago and have a few questions. I am very happy this the set except for a small geometry issue. It’s pretty much only noticeable on the PC input, because you can see the windows taskbar on the bottom. On the bottom left side It “bumps” up a little (barreling I think??).

Am I over analyzing this? Should a Samsung tech look at this or a tv calibration person. Or should I not worry.

Thanks in advance
Jeff


My 6768 seems to go up a little on bottom left. One of the football games had a thing across the bottom. If you do have someone look at it let us know on the other hand some of the fixes are making the sets worse and I like my set so I think I will leave it like it is.

The dynamic range problem shouldn't affect the set's ability to retain calibrated settings, since it is easy (albeit annoying) to reset the HDMI input to the correct dynamic range by switching picture mode for that input to something else and then back again. When you switch it back, the picture looks just as gorgeous as it was before you switched inputs.

I think the issue and I have been having the same thoughts is if they replace a part to fix the firmware issue is this going to blow away you calibration? I would like to have mine calibrated but want to be sure it will not get wiped out by an update.

Sorry computer crash and posted twice: Deleted

I have had my 6768 for about a week and it’s time for some comments.

My equipment so far:

Samsung 6768W 1080P
Samsung 950 DVD
Felston DD540
Pioneer AVR
Dish STB SD
HTPC

Connections:

Dish STB (video)>s-video>6768
Dish STB (audio)>RCA>AVR
DVD (video)>HDMI>6768
DVD (audio)>Digital Coax>Felston>Digital Coax>AVR
HTPC (video)>VGA>6768
HTPC (audio)>5.1 RCA>AVR

Standard definition programming from Dish STB is acceptable, actually better than I expected, although some channels are worse than others. I sit 14’ away, so the imperfections are not as noticeable from this distance. I do get a little pincushion effect on the left side with 4:3 input

DVD movies at 1080i output, from the 950 are very good. Just has been reported, it cannot pass BTB via HDMI. I checked using Digital Video Essential. I get no pincushion with 16:9 input, maybe because of over scan? The annoying “HDMI not supported” message appears on the 6768 whenever the “play” button is selected. I also get tired of having to turn off the bright LCD indicator on the front when watching movies at night. It should remember these settings. The 950 is a descent DVD player and the best one I have owned, but it needs some tweaking via firmware update to make it better. If I had to buy again, I would try the Oppo.

HTPC to this TV gives and outstanding image! I have several WMV HD 1080P movies and look stunning. The only problem I could find was a little pincushion on the left side.
I made some geometry adjustments via the menu. This did not eliminate it, but lessened the effect by shifting the image to the left. I may call Samsung about this or better yet, just get it calibrated. Also, digital photos look good too. I use ACDSee slide show and add some music to go along with it. Now that’s the way to view your photo collection!

Since I am not using the TV speakers at all, there is the audio/video lag issue, although not bad. I bought the Felston in advance of the TV and forgot to turn it on initially. I did not really notice the problem until I looked for it. I set the Felston to 120ms delay, and it solved the problem when using the DVD player. I have not noticed any audio/video synchronization mismatch with SD programming and I have looked hard to try and see it.
Since I am using analog audio, I am not using the Felston for STB audio. The same with HTPC, no lag issue that I have noticed. I am sure I will need it when I get an HD receiver for satellite programming.

I purchased the Felston unit from lipfix.com. I spoke with Nick for about 20 minutes. He had a lot to say about the audio/video lag issues, and was very informative. The unit is very small and does a great job.

I will be getting HD programming in the near future. I am waiting to see what kind of receivers Dish comes out, if any, when they switch to mpeg4. Not sure if the current HD receivers can accept that? I emailed Dish and I am still waiting for a response.

As far as the rainbow effect, I do not see them at all. I have tried, but cannot…whew! :)
The used the Digital Video Essentials and did some tweaking through the menu. I also entered the Service Menu and changed Gamma to 0. I do plan on getting this set professionally calibrated, to make it even better! I hope I can find someone is this area of the southwest that is qualified and capable or can get in on a tour from Avical, if they ever come near El Paso, TX.

The powerbuy from TVA, the delivery from Seko and Land Air Express (local delivery) was great! After getting over the “wow” factor, my overall impressions are very favorable and I am very happy with the purchase. Even the WAF passed with flying colors! :D

Jim

I purchased a 6768 a week ago and have a few questions. I am very happy this the set except for a small geometry issue. It’s pretty much only noticeable on the PC input, because you can see the windows taskbar on the bottom. On the bottom left side It “bumps” up a little (barreling I think??).

Am I over analyzing this? Should a Samsung tech look at this or a tv calibration person. Or should I not worry.

Thanks in advance
Jeff

I have the same issue on my 5688,but its not enough for me to have any concerns.If a problem should ever arise and i need a tech to come out i will have them check it out.But until then i am enjoying my set

I have the same issue on my 5688,but its not enough for me to have any concerns.If a problem should ever arise and i need a tech to come out i will have them check it out.But until then i am enjoying my set

Thanks Matt. It seems like this is common the more I read. PC input specifically exaggerates the issues because you can see geometry in windows very clearly.

Thanks Matt. It seems like this is common the more I read. PC input specifically exaggerates the issues because you can see geometry in windows very clearly.

Its straight half way then kicks up eight of an inch from there.But the wow factor over comes that.

Edit;But I onty see it in PC mode

Its straight half way then kicks up eight of an inch from there.But the wow factor over comes that.

Edit;But I onty see it in PC mode

It is strange Matt. Mine has a very similar issue.

I just downloaded 1080p content from Microsoft, can't wait to get home and play it thru my Windows Media PC. I put it together yesterday!

Those "people" (and I use that word lightly) are the same tools that will jump into an OS thread debating whether OSX is better than Windows. Its a freaking tv. The only thing that matters is whether someone likes the picture or not and yet they enjoy hearing themselves spout off about fake 1080p or fake quality levels or whatever else is stuck up their butts this hour. Some people are so dramatic they deserve oscars.

Mike - this is the best post I've read in a LONG time!!!

Bravo!!!

:)

I think the issue and I have been having the same thoughts is if they replace a part to fix the firmware issue is this going to blow away you calibration? I would like to have mine calibrated but want to be sure it will not get wiped out by an update.Oy vey -- that would not be cool at all. Good question, now I understand the concern ... thanks for clarifying.

I am about to take delivery of my HLR6168W and have been reading the last 15 or so pages of this thread. I have to admit to being a little overwhelmed. I was wondering if someone might be kind enough to me help me understand a few things. On page 163 or so there is talk about a serious problem that affects PQ quality when changing inputs. Can some explain what this problem is as it was hard for me to grasp it. Also, what are discrete codes and how are they related to this problem? I know more aboutg HT than 95% of the population but I find myself feeling very stupid sometimes on this board, lol. ThanksIf I didn't feel stupid at least once in a while, I'd have a much bigger problem. ;)

The problem I think you're referring to affects the dynamic range of HDMI inputs. We have no reported instances of the problem occurring on other inputs. Here's the clearest description I can muster:

1) Let's say you adjust the picture settings (brightness, contrast, etc.) on both the tv and your dvd player (hooked to HDMI1 input) to get the black levels from your dvd player looking just right. Most of us do this by using the pluge bar screens on something like DVE, Avia or the THX Optimizer on several dvd's.

2) Now let's say you change the input (source) on your tv from HDMI1 to any other input ... HDMI2, Component1, whatever. Maybe you just wanted to check the score of a game or something.

3) Then you switch your input (source) on the tv back to HDMI1, and you notice that the pluge bars don't look right. Everything's darker! Much darker. Nothing you do to the picture settings on the player or the tv will get your original, beautimous picture back ... until ....

CLARIFICATION 1: When I say "darker," what I mean is that some of they dynamic range appears to be dramatically clipped out of the picture, causing elements that should be displayed as dark greys to be displayed as black ... causing what some have called that "pool of black" impression of the PQ.

CLARIFICATION 2: This temporary state of reduced dynamic range does not seem tied to picture settings (brightness, contrast, etc.). The image is different without any numeric changes to the tv's settings for that particular input and picture mode.

4) When you switch the tv's picture mode (Display, Standard, Movie, Custom) for that HDMI input to any other picture mode than the one you were on, and then switch it back. So, if you were using Movie mode, switch to Custom and then switch back to Movie. Now your picture looks great again ... until you switch your input (source) to something else and then back again.

It's not a killer of a problem, since you can get the original dynamic range back. But it is annoying. There's hope that a firmware fix will be made available at some time.

I don't yet really understand discrete codes. I think they to come into play (with regard to this particular problem) when you're using a remote where you can program in very specific macros to avoid the inconvenience of having to manually go and change the picture mode every time you switch to an HDMI input. Perhaps there's more to it (maybe the discrete codes allow you to bypass the problem completely, I don't know).

Hope that helps.

I tried to watch The Aviator tonight and the picture was beautiful in all ways but one fairly important one.

The colors were screwed up. The green was replaced by blue.

The equipment is the HL-R6768 and the Denon 1920. Connection is HDMI at 1080i. I tried RGB and YCrCb with no difference between them.

I've watched other movies in this configuration and had green. Where did it go?

I even tried the Oppo DVD player and it also has the same blue for green substitution problem. So its not the DVD player. Is it the TV? Or the DVD?? Argh.

Help!

Thanks
-Dan

I had the same thing happen when I watched Aviator the other night. I first noticed it on the golf course scene. The grass and trees turned an aqua sorta blue. Later in the movie the green came back and was too overpowering. Everything was green. I thouht it was the tv(5668) and had best buy send out a service man this morning.

I have found that I am getting way too much green and don't like it. My tv used to make me say wow everytime I turned it on. It was so stunning. Now it almost makes me sick. When the tv looked good it was great(last week), now I think I am going to return it.

Oh yeah, when the best buy service man was here he was adjusting the screen by twisting the tv. It seems that the case is such a cheap plastic that it has a hard time keeping it's shape. Even the screen seems to be warped a little. That was very suprising. I guess the cheap plastic must help keep the cost down but for $4000. I think they could have made the tv out of a little better material. You can actually twist the tv, which by the way caused the picture to move around. I do not know how this will hold up. Just gravity has to effect it.

I still have a few more days to decide what to do but it is most likely going back.

Hope that helps.

It did help, immensely, much appreciated.

I still have a few more days to decide what to do but it is most likely going back.You may have not read this response to the message you just quoted.

It's the way the movie was made! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6183706&&#post6183706)

I can't follow the sequence of events you describe, but The Aviator has some strange colors in it.

What happened between your great PQ and seeing too much green?

Did you get BB to check the set because of the "green" or some other reason?

Why did the BB guy think he should twist the case?

Calibration usually takes care of too much green in the image but you would see it in all images not just the Aviator film.

Why did the BB guy think he should twist the case?That's the scary one ...

Calibration usually takes care of too much green in the image but you would see it in all images not just the Aviator film.Seaoates, FWIW, I have noticed a slight green cast to darker half of the grayscale range when using the Warm1 or Warm2 picture tones. As htwaits says, I've chalked up this inaccurate grayscale tracking as something I'll only be able to fix via calibration. I'm not sure if it's a color decoding inaccuracy, or if it's simply a color of grey inaccuracy (as if I would really know without someone telling me ;)) ... but I can see how far off green is when viewing the DVE color decoding screen through the green filter (although it's been questioned at least once whether or not those primary filters are effective for measuring proper color decoding, given the secondary colors used on the color wheel).

In my case, the slight green cast does not manifest itself as an obvious picture flaw often (ie, I never look at a blue or green object and think it looks like the wrong color). The effect is subtle, and is occasionally most visible in flesh tone shadows. I haven't seen The Aviator on my set yet, but I would hope the problem you're seeing isn't as dramatic as the intentional ones on that particular film.

Thanks Matt. It seems like this is common the more I read. PC input specifically exaggerates the issues because you can see geometry in windows very clearly.

I have the same problem on my 6168. I had a SS tech come out and he said that they would need to replace the DMD board. He ordered the board and said it was shipped 2 day air... that was more than 2 weeks ago and I still haven't heard from him. If he ever does call back, I don't think I will have him replace the DMD board as the PQ is great and the issue is pretty minor compared to what people have experience after having their set "fixed".

I haven't seen The Aviator on my set yet, but I would hope the problem you're seeing isn't as dramatic as the intentional ones on that particular film.I just checked out three chapters from "The Aviator" on our ISF calibrated HLP5063. I would not use "The Aviator" for any kind of color evaluation. It has unexpected and exaggerated colors in chapters 6 & 11 (blue for green) and in chapter 14 (exaggerated green). We haven't watched the whole movie yet so I didn't look at how those "artistic" colors fit into the film as a whole.

Anyone who thinks their set needs repair based on "The Aviators" can relax. It's the movie not the TV.

I was watching MNF last night on my 6168 (5 days old) and every now and then it would freeze the frame for a couple seconds and then change aspect ratio (to 4x3). It would hold that for another 4 to 10 seconds and then bounce back to 16x9. It did this several times during the game. Is anyone else seeing anything like this? I originally thought it must be in the source transmission since I don't believe I have seen it anywhere else.

Yep, I saw it.

I was watching MNF last night on my 6168 (5 days old) and every now and then it would freeze the frame for a couple seconds and then change aspect ratio (to 4x3). It would hold that for another 4 to 10 seconds and then bounce back to 16x9. It did this several times during the game. Is anyone else seeing anything like this? I originally thought it must be in the source transmission since I don't believe I have seen it anywhere else.

Yes, this happened on my set as well. It must have been technical difficulties from ABC. I live in Mobile, Alabama and was receiving the signal over the air. Near the beginning of the game it would display in HD (16:9) but would have no sound, then it would switch to 4:3 and sound would come on. It kept switching like this through the first half of the game every now and then. I think ABC was doing it. I think they were probably having some difficulty getting sound to transmit with the HD signal for whatever reason so they switched to 4:3 with sound while they figured it out. The second half of the game was transmitted almost entirely in HD with sound as would normally be expected.

Yeah I realize that the movie had the flaw after I read the post. I may be paying more attenion now to the greens than I used to. Everytime I see something green it is like it sticks out to me. I tried adjusting the green in the my color preference but it does not seem to change. When I watch football I do get crystal clear helmets and jerseys, the numbers are sharp but when I see the grass it is a little blurry. I know it could use calibrating but I am not sure if it will stay. It just seems that the color saturation is a little erratic. I put in charlies angels super bit and noticed more green than the last time I watched it. Could be my imagination.

How can I adjust the green? I really don't know of a better tv. It has spoiled me. I just have to decide if I am going to keep this tv before my 30 days are up.

Thanks for the replys.

O yeah, I forgot to metion about the twisting. The tech was twisting the tv to try to align it. I have the same problem where the ticker tape goes off the bottom right. When he twisted the tv you could see it come up.

Is anyone else seeing anything like this? I originally thought it must be in the source transmission since I don't believe I have seen it anywhere else.It was the source via Comcast in the San Francisco Bay area. I saw it too.

How can I adjust the green? I really don't know of a better tv. It has spoiled me. I just have to decide if I am going to keep this tv before my 30 days are up. You need a copy of the Digital Video Essentials disk that helps you calibrate contrast, brightness, and color. Other than that you would need an ISF calibration for someone who knows how to get the most out of Samsung DLP sets. There are four or five of them here at AVS.

I just got the dve today and I don't seem to be able to adjust the green though.
I guess I have to keep going over the dvd. I didn't get to a part that showed how to adjust the individual colors yet. I tried to adjust the green on the my color preference menu but it did not seem to respond.

Considering the HLR6178W and HLR6167W, will use in the mostly for cable (maybe OTA), we have Cablevision so I will install the card. Will we see the difference with these sources with 1080P over 720P? Is it worth the extra $$? Note this will be in our bedroom, we have a Fujitsu P50 in our Den.

I just got the dve today and I don't seem to be able to adjust the green though.
I guess I have to keep going over the dvd. I didn't get to a part that showed how to adjust the individual colors yet. I tried to adjust the green on the my color preference menu but it did not seem to respond.Yes, I encountered the same difficulty when using the color filters with DVE. I can get blue spot-on, but when blue's good, red's slightly off and green's pretty far off. According to the DVE explanation, what I'm seeing is a color decoder error. However: I have the NTSC Component copy of DVE, and have been attempting to home calibrate the tv over HDMI -- which I'm assuming might have a different color decoder attached to it? I was able to get the green much closer when calibrating over component.

I even tried to adjust green using the "my color" menu on the tv, but it had little or no effect (not that I really expected it to work ...).

BTW, there's not a more appropriate version of DVE for these tvs than the NTSC Component version, is there? I couldn't find any versions for HDTV, and was mildly confused by the liner notes included with DVE. My assumption is that there's no version of it with high-def patterns, since the DVD format can't display them. Just my stupid question of the day ...