Anyone use the EQ on the Sammy? I'm interested in using it but I don't know what it is currently set at and if it is possible to return it to the default or change it back manually? In other words I don't want to reset the whole set, just the EQ. I hope that makes sense and is possible.

The default is where you leave it at last.Flipping thru the inputs.picture(dnie)does not revert it back to factory default if there was 1 lol.I use it all the time when not using surround system.Each mode will keep its settings.I think its got a good quality sound.I use Custom setting.

I have a hl-r5688w and sometimes when watching Rome on HBOHD or other "filmed" material over cable box, I see some flickering white boxes in very dark scenes which move around a little, then go away. They are not stuck mirrors as they move rapidly and go away. What causes this? Can it be fixed. It seems to only happen on a few stations and never on live broadcast.I saw the same thing on Rome last night...little white squares popping up then vanishing. I assume it has to be something in the HBO transmission.

Please let me know if you're ever in Portland, Oregon. Thanks.

Eliad did make a tour to portland end of september. He calibrated my set during that time and he did an excellent job.

I have trouble keeping up with this thread for obvious reasons. Is there anyone who would be kind enough to direct me to where someone has laid out instructions on how to a) enter the SM and b) turn off DNIe. One thank you in advance.

David Abrams (Eliab's partner) was at my house last night. Unlike most of you folks, David works within walking distance of my house. Check out pricing at http://www.avical.com.

David explained that the settings the different manufacturers deliver the sets with are intended to show them off in the store showroom. These settings are not to SMPTE or ANSI specs. So, one of the tasks the calibration will do is conform your, yes brand new, set settings to these SMPTE and ANSI specs.


Jim

Jim, Did David do a great job? Did it make a huge difference in the viewing of your TV? I am hiring him to calibrate my set. Him and I are emailing back and forth to set up a time and date because I want the foamcore installed too. What did you pay if you dont mine me asking. Did you get the foamcore installed?

Thanks,
Chris

I saw the same thing on Rome last night...little white squares popping up then vanishing. I assume it has to be something in the HBO transmission.

I am watching Catwoman right now on HBO-HD and on certain action scenes, I see bad pixelation/screen split up into squares. I have seen this before on some DVDs played on my Oppo. It is very distracting and disconcerting! When I don't see this problem, the picture is absolutely amazing....

Does anyone know what is going on here - is it the source material or something specific to the TV? Can calibration help this?

I am watching Catwoman right now on HBO-HD and on certain action scenes, I see bad pixelation/screen split up into squares. I have seen this before on some DVDs played on my Oppo. It is very distracting and disconcerting! When I don't see this problem, the picture is absolutely amazing....

Does anyone know what is going on here - is it the source material or something specific to the TV? Can calibration help this?

I think those are video compression artifacts. Whenever there is a screen change or during scenes with lots of action, there is a higher demand for data bandwidth. Compression artifacts occur when there is not enough data bandwidth. I don't think there is anything we can do.

As long as there is transmission bandwidth limitation, we can expect to see these artifacts. I don't know if the situation will improve when they stop broadcasting analog signals after the Congress-mandated deadline in a few years.

I think those are video compression artifacts. Whenever there is a screen change or during scenes with lots of action, there is a higher demand for data bandwidth. Compression artifacts occur when there is not enough data bandwidth. I don't think there is anything we can do.

As long as there is transmission bandwidth limitation, we can expect to see these artifacts. I don't know if the situation will improve when they stop broadcasting analog signals after the Congress-mandated deadline in a few years.

I have been noticing these more and more even on INHD1 and 2 which I thought were better than the other HD channels here in the Bay Area. :( If they indeed are compression artifacts, there is nothing we can do.

Does anyone know how to get the TV Guide (which I use with the Cable Card) to list the channels numerically instead of alpha?

In their FAQ on tvgos.com (I think that's the link) it actually says that it won't list numerically. It's really awful...

The only thing you can do is to move each channel around manually into the order you want. I personally group the 15 HD channels together at the top, and then have networks, the few cable channels I watch, followed by the movie channels.

Lots of work!

SV

Samsung needs to replace the digital board on my HL-R5668. I recently had my set calibrated and I was wondering whether anyone knows if (i) the Service Menu values are stored in memory in a place that is not part of the digital board so that all values that have been set will remain even after the board is changed and (ii) if changing the digital board has any effect on the picture, particularly the grayscale?

Everything will be changed with a new digital board since it will be a different frimware from what I've heard.

guys can you help me out with the petition...we need just a few more signatures to break 200. the calibrator that works with samsung has already started his meetings with samsung this week, and he asked if i can get a few more. he feels that if he can say we got over 200 signatures that i would be better. i am sure that he will let me know what samsung says so i will keep you guys posted. this is the last day for the petition so i will bother you guys no more :D BTW this petition is to disable DNIe if you haven't seen it yet. i need at least 6 more signature. thank you to all that have singed....maybe it will make a difference~Joe

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/212553992

Everything will be changed with a new digital board since it will be a different frimware from what I've heard.
I understand that there will be new firmware, but does changing the firmware change all of the service menu values and if so, what does it change them to? I would've thought that those values would have been stored in memory, tied to the specific set, but I may be wrong. I guess what I should do is go into the SM and write down all of my values and then check them once the new board is installed. Then I could just change them if necessary. I would think that the new board would not have any significant effect on the picture so that the old calibration settings should still work. Any thoughts?

Take a picture of each screen. That is much easier than writing everything down. Most electronic items that have a new firmware gets set to the factory defaults with that new firmware.

Take a picture of each screen. That is much easier than writing everything down. Most electronic items that have a new firmware gets set to the factory defaults with that new firmware.

Interesting, but for these sets I thought that the factory SM settings varied from set to set so is there really a "factory default"?

For all you Samsung owners you might want to take a look here;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=602499

I have trouble keeping up with this thread for obvious reasons. Is there anyone who would be kind enough to direct me to where someone has laid out instructions on how to a) enter the SM and b) turn off DNIe. One thank you in advance.

Jon, check out Message # 6745 in this thread.

Perhaps someone can help me. I am thinking about buying the 5067. Can anyone tell me a really good reason why I should wait for the 1080P capable models to come down in price or the 720P 5067 is "good enough"? Thanks for the help and be gentle this is my first post. Thanks!

Be careful with that ditital board swap!

It's basically a brain transplant and all the calibration values will be different. I had three swapped out and the PQ looked crappy. I wouldn't swap for a firmware change, that's why I hope they let us use that darn port on the back.

I just had my digital board replaced because the IR remote stopped working. Are you suggesting my TV needs to be recalibrated now because the board is calibrated and set up with the TV at the factory? When the Samsung guy was here he went into the SM and only adjusted the index value and the x/y positioning.

Rick


Be careful with that ditital board swap!

It's basically a brain transplant and all the calibration values will be different. I had three swapped out and the PQ looked crappy. I wouldn't swap for a firmware change, that's why I hope they let us use that darn port on the back.

Be careful with that ditital board swap!

It's basically a brain transplant and all the calibration values will be different. I had three swapped out and the PQ looked crappy. I wouldn't swap for a firmware change, that's why I hope they let us use that darn port on the back.
What if I make a copy of each of my service menu values before the Board swap and then just make those changes to the SM after the Board is swapped? Won't that bring my set back to where it was?

Also, I'm not doing this just for the firmware update. I'm hoping it will fix the "dynamic range" problem that has been discussed elsewhere in this thread.

What if I make a copy of each of my service menu values before the Board swap and then just make those changes to the SM after the Board is swapped? Won't that bring my set back to where it was?..
While I have not ventured into the service menu, I thought someone had mentioned awhile back that the SM settings/effect were not just based on the specific values in the SM but also in the sequence of the adjustments.

What if I make a copy of each of my service menu values before the Board swap and then just make those changes to the SM after the Board is swapped? Won't that bring my set back to where it was?

Also, I'm not doing this just for the firmware update. I'm hoping it will fix the "dynamic range" problem that has been discussed elsewhere in this thread.

I believe Samsung is still working on a solution to the dynamic range issue. Bill mentioned he would get an update in a week or two. You can work around the issue by changing picture modes after switching inputs. If you have a universal remote, you can add discrete codes for the picture modes which makes the work around much more convenient.

Is the ring focus adjustment something that would be done normally in a ISF calibration?

What is entailed?

Thanks,
Noz


That's not entirely true. While there are certain menus (CCA, etc.) that are global, I've found that depending on the firmware version there can be unique DNIe settings for each input or input type (digital, component, composite).


That's correct. I setup the movie mode to SMPTE HD standard coordinates.


Ring focus is a mechanical focus adjustment that's performed through the back of your display. I've been able to improve focus on these sets by as much as 50%!


Gamma won't fix your crushed blacks. Removing DNIe will.

Eliab

I believe Samsung is still working on a solution to the dynamic range issue. Bill mentioned he would get an update in a week or two. You can work around the issue by changing picture modes after switching inputs. If you have a universal remote, you can add discrete codes for the picture modes which makes the work around much more convenient.
I've actually been in touch with Bill about this. I have a Pronto remote, but my dynamic range issue is a bit more complicated and a bit worse than others so it's worth it to me to do the Board swap.

While I have not ventured into the service menu, I thought someone had mentioned awhile back that the SM settings/effect were not just based on the specific values in the SM but also in the sequence of the adjustments.
For the most part, it's really the way those settings work with the existing light engine and since I am not changing the light engine, the same values should have the same effects on my picture, at least that's what I think.

I just had my digital board replaced because the IR remote stopped working. Are you suggesting my TV needs to be recalibrated now because the board is calibrated and set up with the TV at the factory? When the Samsung guy was here he went into the SM and only adjusted the index value and the x/y positioning.

Rick
All I know is that if you change the board then all your SM will be changed to the new board specs. All that calibration is out the door from previously. I made sure that my board is working properly before I have the calibration done. I am scheduling my calibration and Foamcore boards to be installed in my TV in 3 weeks. Daivd has to get the boards first.
This whole process is 4 hours to do.

All I know is that if you change the board then all your SM will be changed to the new board specs. All that calibration is out the door from previously. I made sure that my board is working properly before I have the calibration done. I am scheduling my calibration and Foamcore boards to be installed in my TV in 3 weeks. Daivd has to get the boards first.
This whole process is 4 hours to do.
I don't think that's completely right. While the board may have it's own SM values, the board itself doesn't really have its own "specs." The SM values are tied to the TV and most significantly to the LE. The board just processes the info and the LE responds with the values that are input. As a result, you should be able to use many different boards and as long as you always use the same SM values, the picture should remain the same, at least that's what SS has told me. Then again, maybe the person I spoke with at SS was wrong, which wouldn't be the first time.

I don't think that's completely right. While the board may have it's own SM values, the board itself doesn't really have its own "specs." The SM values are tied to the TV and most significantly to the LE. The board just processes the info and the LE responds with the values that are input. As a result, you should be able to use many different boards and as long as you always use the same SM values, the picture should remain the same, at least that's what SS has told me. Then again, maybe the person I spoke with at SS was wrong, which wouldn't be the first time.

You and I heard two different things. People have told me, that the SM is stored into a chip EEPROM that is located on the board, so if you change the board the settings SM goes with it. Maybe I am hearing wrong info.

Either way, I dont want to take that chance and have my TV calibrated and then change the board. Unless if I can swap out the EEPROM chip. I use many EEPROM in my field now and like how they work.

In order to update the firmware, you have to change the board out. I am hearing this. What kind of messed up situation is that? especially if the SM settings are saved on the EEPROM chip of the board.

Halco, add me to the list of those in the Houston area (Texas City) that would be interested in a visit from Eliab.

You and I heard two different things. People have told me, that the SM is stored into a chip EEPROM that is located on the board, so if you change the board the settings SM goes with it. Maybe I am hearing wrong info.

Either way, I dont want to take that chance and have my TV calibrated and then change the board. Unless if I can swap out the EEPROM chip. I use many EEPROM in my field now and like how they work.

In order to update the firmware, you have to change the board out. I am hearing this. What kind of messed up situation is that? especially if the SM settings are saved on the EEPROM chip of the board.

So if the SM settings are indeed on an EEPROM on the digital board, then RMSko's contention that copying the details from his previous settings to the new digital board should get him the same results as his previous board.

I would still be worried though because there might be other components that get calibrated/changed during the cablibration that will need to be redone on the new board. It all depends on Samsung's design - did they do it right and pick up all the settings from one EEPROM on the board or is it distributed across different components that all need to be updated again?

If it is the latter, is it easy to copy over the values from the old board or does the new board have to be calibrated again? RMSko - I would advise you to get straight to Level II (or higher) customer support at Samsung and try to get this info from them - FWIW!

So if the SM settings are indeed on an EEPROM on the digital board, then RMSko's contention that copying the details from his previous settings to the new digital board should get him the same results as his previous board.

I would still be worried though because there might be other components that get calibrated/changed during the cablibration that will need to be redone on the new board. It all depends on Samsung's design - did they do it right and pick up all the settings from one EEPROM on the board or is it distributed across different components that all need to be updated again?

If it is the latter, is it easy to copy over the values from the old board or does the new board have to be calibrated again? RMSko - I would advise you to get straight to Level II (or higher) customer support at Samsung and try to get this info from them - FWIW!

Sounds good. Thanks for the update man, I will try to find out what exactly changes and where it stores to. I wonder if how many people really know how and where the settings are placed. Maybe in all different locations like you have stated. No matter what each calibration and board swapped some settings will get erased if not all of them. I have to talk to Sammy about that.

My TV will be calibrated in 3 weeks. I am waiting for the Foamcore boards to come in. David, Eliab's partner will be doing my calibrations. He sure knows these TV's very well.

ALL THESE SAMMY'S REALLY NEED TO BE CLAIBRATED TO WORK WELL.

The SM settings are stored in a memory chip on the digital board. If you change the digital board you get the default (factory) settings from the new board.
(Or, you are really unlucky like I was and purchase a digital board upgrade from Samsung Parts, you might get a previously used digital board with someone else's messed up settings!)
TRUE, TRUE AND VERY TRUE.

I don't think that's completely right. While the board may have it's own SM values, the board itself doesn't really have its own "specs." The SM values are tied to the TV and most significantly to the LE. The board just processes the info and the LE responds with the values that are input. As a result, you should be able to use many different boards and as long as you always use the same SM values, the picture should remain the same, at least that's what SS has told me. Then again, maybe the person I spoke with at SS was wrong, which wouldn't be the first time.
Page 3-1 of the service manual shows that when the digital board is replaced, the S/W version must be checked, index delay adjusted, actuator gain set, H & V position set as well as CCA adjusted/checked. For the CCA, it states that color correction is performed based on previously input coordinates.. A picture would be a good idea in this case

Perhaps someone can help me. I am thinking about buying the 5067. Can anyone tell me a really good reason why I should wait for the 1080P capable models to come down in price or the 720P 5067 is "good enough"? Thanks for the help and be gentle this is my first post. Thanks!

You may want to buy a 1080p set because:

1) The resolution increase is very noticeable especially if you want to get a set with 56-in diagonal or bigger. If you are determined to buy a 50-in diagonal, and your viewing distance is 10 feet or more, then the increased resolution may be lost on you.

2) Contrast ratio and brightness are considerably better on 1080p sets. Even if you compare TVs in a store, you should be able to tell the difference easily. When you bring your TV home, and use better quality signal, the new 1080p sets will knock your socks off.

3) Prices have already come down for 1080p sets. If you spend much time at home watching TV programming or DVD movies, then my advice would be to consider a 1080p set seriously. If your viewing distance is 8 feet or more, get 61-in set. If you have the money, get your TV promptly because life is too short to wait for more price cuts or better versions.

I apologize if I sound too materialistic, or even for telling you what to do with your own money. I've been thrilled with my 6168 since the first day I got it back in September.

Has anyone experimented with the Lamp Control setting in the S-M Option section. The range is stated as Dynamic/Normal but mine came set to Always. If I change this to Dynamic, the picture, when in Cinema mode changes noticeably to the extent it reminds me of turning off DNIE on my old 63 series. Seems to impact the black crush in a positive manner. Any experience?

ALL THESE SAMMY'S REALLY NEED TO BE CLAIBRATED TO WORK WELL.

And the post calibration picture is excellent! I'm looking forward to Eliabs return to install the foamcore boards in my set. Hopefully I'll have my VP30 scaler by then.

And the post calibration picture is excellent! I'm looking forward to Eliabs return to install the foamcore boards in my set. Hopefully I'll have my VP30 scaler by then.
Thanks for this Info. I will totally look forward for David's Calibration next month. I will post my findings then. I should be impressed like how you are.

Hi everybody. Wondering what you guys think about the following situation - I'm about to buy the 5668 from a reputable dealer in So Cal. The price was quoted as $4000.

Numerous, quality retailers have the 5668 for around $3000. (its the 5678 that retails for around $4000...)

Yet, my dealer maintains that $4000 is the correct street price for the 5668 and that $3000 would be below cost. What do you think about the discrepancy?

So many retailers cant be selling the 5668 below cost...yet i know my dealer to 100% honest and above board. What's going on here?

Thanks!

Jon, check out Message # 6745 in this thread.

Much appreciate Nazgul_Darkrider

I have question concerning this You will need a programmable remote control into which you can program Pronto codes.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to a remote that will allow entry of Pronto code? Do Harmony remotes allow such code entry?

thanks.

Hi everybody. Wondering what you guys think about the following situation - I'm about to buy the 5668 from a reputable dealer in So Cal. The price was quoted as $4000.

Numerous, quality retailers have the 5668 for around $3000. (its the 5678 that retails for around $4000...)

Yet, my dealer maintains that $4000 is the correct street price for the 5668 and that $3000 would be below cost. What do you think about the discrepancy?

So many retailers cant be selling the 5668 below cost...yet i know my dealer to 100% honest and above board. What's going on here?

Thanks!
WRONG, The 5678 is at about $3,299.00 Look at www.Vanns.com they are cheaper. What vendor are you talking about? I have seen them for $3,299.99 even Tweeters has a good price too. Dont pay more than $3,500.00 for it. Even the 5668 is cheap too, like $3,299.99 at many websites that I have seen as of today.

I totally agree about the lower prices but my dealer just spoke to the distributor who reaffirmed the near $4000 price for the 5668. I called tweeter and they list both the 5668 and the 5678 at $3999.99

What's going on here?!

I totally agree about the lower prices but my dealer just spoke to the distributor who reaffirmed the near $4000 price for the 5668. I called tweeter and they list both the 5668 and the 5678 at $3999.99

What's going on here?!

Nothing is going on. These people are sensing that you are inclined to believe them - so they aren't budging from MSRP. There have been numerous reports of people negotiating at Tweeters and being able to convince them to come close to the online prices. I am sure your Tweeter will be willing to do the same.

Are they seriously suggesting that all the online dealers are actually making a loss selling these sets? Not likely. :rolleyes:

Hi everybody. Wondering what you guys think about the following situation - I'm about to buy the 5668 from a reputable dealer in So Cal. The price was quoted as $4000.

Numerous, quality retailers have the 5668 for around $3000. (its the 5678 that retails for around $4000...)

Yet, my dealer maintains that $4000 is the correct street price for the 5668 and that $3000 would be below cost. What do you think about the discrepancy?

So many retailers cant be selling the 5668 below cost...yet i know my dealer to 100% honest and above board. What's going on here?

Thanks!

You can not compare the cost of a 5668 to a 5678. The 5678 is going to be about $300 more, even at cost. When the dealer adds shipping to the cost of a 5678, he would not be making enough at $3000 to stay in business. I think his comments are essentially true.

I have 14. :(

I guess its not enough to say "cheap VGA cable"..... Mine is cheap given that I paid only $13 for 25' - perhaps its too cheap! Anyway - I will get a 15 pin cable from Radio Shack and give it a try.

Thanks.

Hello again... An update from me.

I got hold of a 15 pin VGA cable and now my TV reports 1920 x 1080 at 60 Hz. Hurray! And Thanks!

Now - my next step is to be able to play DVDs at 1080p and send it via VGA to the 6168. As I said before, my laptop has the following specs:

1. ATI Fire GL2 128 MB card.
2. 1 GB of SDRAM
3. 2.0 Ghz Pentium Centrino CPU.

Do I need some specialized DVD playing software or is WMPlayer sufficient? And what about getting Digital sound from the laptop? - it doesn't have a sound card that outputs Coax or Optical.

Sorry for the somewhat basic questions! Thanks a ton! :)

You can not compare the cost of a 5668 to a 5678. The 5678 is going to be about $300 more, even at cost. When the dealer adds shipping to the cost of a 5678, he would not be making enough at $3000 to stay in business. I think his comments are essentially true.


So the 5668 at or near $4000 is reasonable?

TV Authority has it at $3200 but they cant be selling it for a loss, can they?

Has anyone experimented with the Lamp Control setting in the S-M Option section. The range is stated as Dynamic/Normal but mine came set to Always. If I change this to Dynamic, the picture, when in Cinema mode changes noticeably to the extent it reminds me of turning off DNIE on my old 63 series. Seems to impact the black crush in a positive manner. Any experience?
I looked in the Service Manual to see what setting there is for the Lamp Control and the default is "Dynamic"...notice that mine (6168) is set to "Always" too. When I changed it to dynamic while in standard mode I couldn't see any difference in the picture. Anyone out there know what this setting is for?

Jim

Hello again... An update from me.

I got hold of a 15 pin VGA cable and now my TV reports 1920 x 1080 at 60 Hz. Hurray! And Thanks!

Now - my next step is to be able to play DVDs at 1080p and send it via VGA to the 6168. As I said before, my laptop has the following specs:

1. ATI Fire GL2 128 MB card.
2. 1 GB of SDRAM
3. 2.0 Ghz Pentium Centrino CPU.

Do I need some specialized DVD playing software or is WMPlayer sufficient? And what about getting Digital sound from the laptop? - it doesn't have a sound card that outputs Coax or Optical.

Sorry for the somewhat basic questions! Thanks a ton! :)

WMP is sufficient and it works well; however, you will need an MPEG decoder to watch DVD movies (because they all use MPEG-2 encoding). You can purchase an MPEG decoder such as nVidia PureVideo, InterVideo WinDVD, etc. nVidia Bronze version will cost you $20 directly from their Web site. You may also be able to get WinDVD at no cost with some motherboards. There is also a free DScaler decoder that many people say works really well. If for whatever reason you don't like WMP, then you can purchase TheaterTek or Zoom players, or even use the player that comes with MPEG decoder software.

Your laptop should be able to deinterlace and upscale 480i DVD movies to 1920x1080 at 60Hz. However, it is hard to say this with certainty. If you encounter problems with playback (motion artifacts, stuttering, etc.), they could be caused by the relatively underpowered CPU. Again, this is hard to predict, and you will just have to try it. It is fairly easy to support static images (e.g., your desktop and office applications) at 1920x1080 60 Hz but it's quite a bit more difficult to move 2 million pixels around in fast motion video scenes.

It does not look like you'll be able to get 5.1 sound from your laptop and will need to settle for 2-channel stereo sound. Most desktop motherboards or PCI based add-in sound cards have SPDIF output (either coax or toslink) that allows you to use SPDIF passthrough to send audio to external AV receiver for decoding. This is usually fairly easy to set up via settings in both the audio card software and MPEG decoder.

I use nVidia 6600GT card with nVidia PureVideo decoder in my desktop WinXP MCE HTPC to watch DVD movies, and the picture is simply superb. Several times my wife has asked me if we were watching high def programming when all we had was a rented DVD. With some DVDs, the picture quality is remarkably good.

And final note, you will almost certainly not be able to play any WMV HD movies (at native 1080p resolution) from your laptop primarily because your CPU is underpowered.

B&H Photo/Video in NY...and these guys are as legit as you can get, had a "click here for a new price" and their price on the 5668 was $2999 + about $300 for shipping.

I was actually going to go ahead and order it from B&H, but they sold out before I could. Because they are a known legit company and not one of those NY based places that have three store names with the same address, a guy at a local store was willing to match it. (and actually was $100 cheaper because he said their shipping costs were a lot less)

Maybe I was lucky...don't know. $4000 seems high though...even the hi-end places like Magnolia are a lot lower than that. (though their savings are based on "rebates" that you get as store credit).

SV

So the 5668 at or near $4000 is reasonable?

TV Authority has it at $3200 but they cant be selling it for a loss, can they?


Their cost for the 5668 is around $2,650 and cost for the 5678 is $2,890. Magolia will offer to sell the 5678 for around $3,400

Page 3-1 of the service manual shows that when the digital board is replaced, the S/W version must be checked, index delay adjusted, actuator gain set, H & V position set as well as CCA adjusted/checked. For the CCA, it states that color correction is performed based on previously input coordinates.. A picture would be a good idea in this case
Wouldn't that then imply that as long as I have all the SM settings from my prior Board and then input those settings into the new Board I will retain the benefit of the calibrated picture. Many of the prior posts keep highlighting the fact that the settings are stored on the Board and when you replace the Board you are stuck with the facotry defaults. I don't dispute that and I do believe that that is consistent with what Samsung has been telling me. All I'm saying is that those defaults (primarily the CCA settings) can then be changed to conform to the values on the old Board and as long as you do that you should be able to retain your old Board's calibrated PQ. Does anyone disagree?

What about the differences with the new firmware? The picture might be good but I doubt it would be exactly like it was after the calibration. But that would be your best bet to enter the values from before and hopefully it will be close. But every TV is different and changing a major component would have to affect it somehow.

Just a reminder, in these threads we should only be discussing MSRP price and not quoting specific sale prices ... this is avsForum policy. I think we should respect this rule because all of the threads could easily fill up with unneccessary price info.

Much appreciate Nazgul_Darkrider

I have question concerning this

Does anyone have any recommendations as to a remote that will allow entry of Pronto code? Do Harmony remotes allow such code entry?

thanks.

I recently purchased the Harmony 880 and although it doesn't allow you to enter Pronto codes, I do have the code for the service menu access and the discrete picture modes available. I have a Pronto Neo that is no longer used (the whole touchscreen thing has a very low WAF) so I used it to enter the code and then had the Harmony learn it. Another AVS member posted that he had the discrete codes for the picture modes for the Harmony 880 so I called Logitech tech support and had them copy the codes from his setup. If you decide to go with the Harmony 880, you can call and have them copy the commands from my setup to yours.

Hello again... An update from me.

I got hold of a 15 pin VGA cable and now my TV reports 1920 x 1080 at 60 Hz. Hurray! And Thanks!

Now - my next step is to be able to play DVDs at 1080p and send it via VGA to the 6168. As I said before, my laptop has the following specs:

1. ATI Fire GL2 128 MB card.
2. 1 GB of SDRAM
3. 2.0 Ghz Pentium Centrino CPU.

Do I need some specialized DVD playing software or is WMPlayer sufficient? And what about getting Digital sound from the laptop? - it doesn't have a sound card that outputs Coax or Optical.

Sorry for the somewhat basic questions! Thanks a ton! :)

After i purchased my 61" HLN model i went to the HTPC forum and not only figured out how to build one but i downloaded all free software and learned how to use it. I use zoomplayer, ffdshow, and dscaler all free. They are very powerful programs that together allow me to edit movie while im watching them. For instance i can sharpen or unsharpen movies while im watching them adjust any movie to fill the screen perfectly with the mouse pad, etc. Its been so long since i set it all up that i dont remember how i just remember now how it all works. Id start in the HTPC forum. When i manipulate movies with the filters they look unbelievable on my 6168.

Since I had a Samsung hlp6163 for ~ 15 months, and liked it very much, I thought I would report to this thread my final decision on choosing a 1080p set to replace it. The choice came down to that between the Sammy 7178 and the Mits 73727; I really wanted a 70+" set, and since I was commited to getting it from Magnolia, these were my ony two choices (since I didn't think the Qualia was worth the price).

The factor that finally pushed me to getting the Mits was that the 7178 has a 'plate glass', Qualia type screen; why in the world Samsung put that on their 71" set, when all the others have their traditional 'matte' screen (as does the Mits 73727!), I'll never know. I really do like the 'matte' screen very much. I do feel somewhat like a 'traitor', though, since the Sammy hlp was such a good set.

Re the Mits, I'm quite pleased with it, though as many people have noted, no set these days is perfect; one just chooses the one that has defects that annoy one the least. HD and DVD's (via my Pioneer 59avi) are outstanding, as I'm sure they would be on the Sammy. PQ on SD analog channels is not great (it's reasonable on SD digital channels), probably not as good as they were on the hlp6163, which seemed to be more forgiving of poor inputs. The Mits has a few minor defects (a small degree of 'pincushion' on 3x4 channels, and it also cuts off some of the width of some 3x4 inputs), but I think these may be no more annoying than some of Sammy's faults (dnie, etc.). Had it not been for the screen on the Sammy 7178, I'm sure I would have had a much harder time deciding between the Sammy and the Mits.

Anyway, unless some major defect in the Mits becomes apparant within the next month (I just got it this past Friday), I'm pretty sure I will keep it. Until then, of course, there is still time to chance my mind!

PS I view from ~ 10 to 10.5 ft, and I really to like the 73 inches!

The files are also in that forum

Since I had a Samsung hlp6163 for ~ 15 months, and liked it very much, I thought I would report to this thread my final decision on choosing a 1080p set to replace it. The choice came down to that between the Sammy 7178 and the Mits 73727; I really wanted a 70+" set, and since I was commited to getting it from Magnolia, these were my ony two choices (since I didn't think the Qualia was worth the price).

The factor that finally pushed me to getting the Mits was that the 7178 has a 'plate glass', Qualia type screen; why in the world Samsung put that on their 71" set, when all the others have their traditional 'matte' screen (as does the Mits 73727!), I'll never know. I really do like the 'matte' screen very much. I do feel somewhat like a 'traitor', though, since the Sammy hlp was such a good set.

Re the Mits, I'm quite pleased with it, though as many people have noted, no set these days is perfect; one just chooses the one that has defects that annoy one the least. HD and DVD's (via my Pioneer 59avi) are outstanding, as I'm sure they would be on the Sammy. PQ on SD analog channels is not great (it's reasonable on SD digital channels), probably not as good as they were on the hlp6163, which seemed to be more forgiving of poor inputs. The Mits has a few minor defects (a small degree of 'pincushion' on 3x4 channels, and it also cuts off some of the width of some 3x4 inputs), but I think these may be no more annoying than some of Sammy's faults (dnie, etc.). Had it not been for the screen on the Sammy 7178, I'm sure I would have had a much harder time deciding between the Sammy and the Mits.

Anyway, unless some major defect in the Mits becomes apparant within the next month (I just got it this past Friday), I'm pretty sure I will keep it. Until then, of course, there is still time to chance my mind!

PS I view from ~ 10 to 10.5 ft, and I really to like the 73 inches!

I was over at Magnolia today browsing and looked at the 7178 again. I agree, the reflective screen is unfortunate. But, it is also probably something Samsung could fix by replacing with a non-reflective screen. Samsung ... if you are listening, consider it.

WMP is sufficient and it works well; however, you will need an MPEG decoder to watch DVD movies (because they all use MPEG-2 encoding). You can purchase an MPEG decoder such as nVidia PureVideo, InterVideo WinDVD, etc. nVidia Bronze version will cost you $20 directly from their Web site. You may also be able to get WinDVD at no cost with some motherboards. There is also a free DScaler decoder that many people say works really well. If for whatever reason you don't like WMP, then you can purchase TheaterTek or Zoom players, or even use the player that comes with MPEG decoder software.

Your laptop should be able to deinterlace and upscale 480i DVD movies to 1920x1080 at 60Hz. However, it is hard to say this with certainty. If you encounter problems with playback (motion artifacts, stuttering, etc.), they could be caused by the relatively underpowered CPU. Again, this is hard to predict, and you will just have to try it. It is fairly easy to support static images (e.g., your desktop and office applications) at 1920x1080 60 Hz but it's quite a bit more difficult to move 2 million pixels around in fast motion video scenes.

It does not look like you'll be able to get 5.1 sound from your laptop and will need to settle for 2-channel stereo sound. Most desktop motherboards or PCI based add-in sound cards have SPDIF output (either coax or toslink) that allows you to use SPDIF passthrough to send audio to external AV receiver for decoding. This is usually fairly easy to set up via settings in both the audio card software and MPEG decoder.

I use nVidia 6600GT card with nVidia PureVideo decoder in my desktop WinXP MCE HTPC to watch DVD movies, and the picture is simply superb. Several times my wife has asked me if we were watching high def programming when all we had was a rented DVD. With some DVDs, the picture quality is remarkably good.

And final note, you will almost certainly not be able to play any WMV HD movies (at native 1080p resolution) from your laptop primarily because your CPU is underpowered.


Thanks a ton. Looks like I need to build a dedicated HTPC to get a complete solution. I have my Oppo for now and will have to suffice.

I tried downloading the Alexander trailer in 1080p and playing it on the laptop and it does well enough. I was blown away by the quality on the TV. This is what really prompted me to think about using my laptop as my DVD player.

i wouldnt rebuild a thing if your computer and video card are fast enough all you need is the software. There is a site that will test your comuter and tell you if its fast enough to play wmv9 files. If it passes then its good. I dont remember the site someone else might help you with that.

i wouldnt rebuild a thing if your computer and video card are fast enough all you need is the software. There is a site that will test your comuter and tell you if its fast enough to play wmv9 files. If it passes then its good. I dont remember the site someone else might help you with that.

Right - but the lack of Dolby Digital/DTS from the laptop may be a showstopper.

dont laptops have digital out? I know i saw one once with an optical out.

dont laptops have digital out? I know i saw one once with an optical out.

Mine certainly doesn't. :)

Even if it did it would only be in sterreo for the WMVHD clips. the only way to get 5.1 sound out is to use the 5.1 analog outs or to get a DD encoder(DD LIVE) like the Mystique 7.1. It works well but in my system it will drop a few frames at 1080P when playing the HD WMV files. Without the Mystique it was fine so my sytem must be borderline. With games and DVds and WMVHD at 720P no problem and it is much easier running one optical cable than 6 coaxial cables for the analog outs.

- I just read in the DVD software section about this Nemo banding. Funny how this is the first I have heard of it.

I don't even own a High Def. set,(yet)and I've heard of this banding on that DVD.
:D

Right - but the lack of Dolby Digital/DTS from the laptop may be a showstopper.

You can always find a USB External Sound card if the laptop supports USB 2.0. Some have optical and coaxial outputs as well.

The guy that did the calibration of my TV (Kevin Miller of ISFTV) is a consultant for Samsung and has been meeting with them this week. He raised the "dynamic range" issue with them and they have been working on it for the last day or so. He believes they have come up with a permanent fix. He said you need to go into the SM and under DNIe there is an item called "SNI_PROC_BWS". He said you need to set this to "Off" and it should fix the problem permanently. I'm at work now so I won't be able to try it until I get home, but if anyone can try this and report back, that would be great. Thanks.

BTW - Kevin did an amazing job calibrating my set. If you live in the NY area, I highly recommend him.

The guy that did the calibration of my TV (Kevin Miller of ISFTV) is a consultant for Samsung and has been meeting with them this week. He raised the "dynamic range" issue with them and they have been working on it for the last day or so. He believes they have come up with a permanent fix. He said you need to go into the SM and under DNIe there is an item called "SNI_PROC_BWS". He said you need to set this to "Off" and it should fix the problem permanently. I'm at work now so I won't be able to try it until I get home, but if anyone can try this and report back, that would be great. Thanks.

BTW - Kevin did an amazing job calibrating my set. If you live in the NY area, I highly recommend him.


Using HDMI1, I turned off SNI_PROC_BWS, exited the service menu, switched to VGA, switched back to HDMI1... still has the dynamic range problem. I even tried turning SNI_PROC_BWS off on the VGA input as well, no change in behavior. Bummer :(

Using HDMI1, I turned off SNI_PROC_BWS, exited the service menu, switched to VGA, switched back to HDMI1... still has the dynamic range problem. I even tried turning SNI_PROC_BWS off on the VGA input as well, no change in behavior. Bummer :(

Thanks for trying. I've just emailed my contact to let him know. Apparently it worked on the set they were testing so it may depend on the firmware version. What firmware do you have? If others can also try the test (the exact same way you did) that would be great. That way we could see if it is dependant on the firmware version.

Thanks for trying. I've just emailed my contact to let him know. Apparently it worked on the set they were testing so it may depend on the firmware version. What firmware do you have? If others can also try the test (the exact same way you did) that would be great. That way we could see if it is dependant on the firmware version.

HL-R6168W firmware : T_EXCAAUS0_8012, DATE: 2005-06-22

HL-R6168W firmware : T_EXCAAUS0_8012, DATE: 2005-06-22

That's the original firmware. I'm sure they're working on a set that has more recent firmware so that may be the answer. My firmware version is T_EXCAAUS0_8015, DATE: 2005-07-16. I'll try it when I get home tonight and post the results.

The guy that did the calibration of my TV (Kevin Miller of ISFTV) is a consultant for Samsung and has been meeting with them this week. He raised the "dynamic range" issue with them and they have been working on it for the last day or so. He believes they have come up with a permanent fix. He said you need to go into the SM and under DNIe there is an item called "SNI_PROC_BWS". He said you need to set this to "Off" and it should fix the problem permanently. I'm at work now so I won't be able to try it until I get home, but if anyone can try this and report back, that would be great. Thanks.

BTW - Kevin did an amazing job calibrating my set. If you live in the NY area, I highly recommend him.

RMSko,
I have one of the first sets shipped and the fix appears to work. You have to make the change, for the HDMI input. I changed it to off for one of the component inputs but when I went to the HDMI input it was still on. I also noted that the HDMI input is displayed as "ERROR". I'm not sure what that means. The "ERROR" was displayed for the HDMI input before I made any changes in the service menu.

RMSko,
I have one of the first sets shipped and the fix appears to work. You have to make the change, for the HDMI input. I changed it to off for one of the component inputs but when I went to the HDMI input it was still on. I also noted that the HDMI input is displayed as "ERROR". I'm not sure what that means. The "ERROR" was displayed for the HDMI input before I made any changes in the service menu.
Interesting. For me it is displayed as "ON" and not as "ERROR". I'll see what it shows when I make the change. Once you made the change, did it carry through to each of the other inputs? If not, did you also make the change on the other inputs?

Interesting. For me it is displayed as "ON" and not as "ERROR". I'll see what it shows when I make the change. Once you made the change, did it carry through to each of the other inputs? If not, did you also make the change on the other inputs?

The "ERROR" I am getting is for the input name for HDMI 2. The HDMI 1 input is displayed correctly. I had to change the SNI_PROC_BWS from on to off for each input.

The "ERROR" I am getting is for the input name for HDMI 2. The HDMI 1 input is displayed correctly. I had to change the SNI_PROC_BWS from on to off for each input.
Got it. Did the "Off" setting hold when you cycled the TV off and back on? Also, how bad was your dynamic range problem? Did it occur whenever you switched inputs and if it did, did switching inputs make the picture brighter or darker? Finally, did turning SNI_PROC_BWS from on to off appear to have any other effect on the picture?

Got it. Did the "Off" setting hold when you cycled the TV off and back on? Also, how bad was your dynamic range problem? Did it occur whenever you switched inputs and if it did, did switching inputs make the picture brighter or darker? Finally, did turning SNI_PROC_BWS from on to off appear to have any other effect on the picture?

I was able to turn the TV on and off twice and the setting held.
My problem was with the gray scale loosing resolution of the dark steps. I use the HDNet test pattern and set contrast and brightness to just be able to resolve the zero on the white background and the 10 on the black background. Normally after changing inputs the 10 would blend into the background. Changing from movie mode to another mode and back to movie mode would correct the problem but after changing inputs the problem would return.
I don’t see any negative impacts from changing SNI_PROC_BWS to off but I haven’t watched much after making the change.
Thank you very much for posting what I hope will prove to be a permanent solution.

EDIT: Firmware T EXCAAUSO_8012 2005_06_22

I was able to turn the TV on and off twice and the setting held.
My problem was with the gray scale loosing resolution of the dark steps. I use the HDNet test pattern and set contrast and brightness to just be able to resolve the zero on the white background and the 10 on the black background. Normally after changing inputs the 10 would blend into the background. Changing from movie mode to another mode and back to movie mode would correct the problem but after changing inputs the problem would return.
I don’t see any negative impacts from changing SNI_PROC_BWS to off but I haven’t watched much after making the change.
Thank you very much for posting what I hope will prove to be a permanent solution.

EDIT: Firmware T EXCAAUSO_8012 2005_06_22


The setting appears to persist for me as well. However, as I previously stated, it does not solve the problem. A good test for me is to pause on a dark suit in any version of Law & Order, switch to VGA and back to HDMI1. Then hit the movie mode discrete code. Very noticible difference in shadow detail.

The setting appears to persist for me as well. However, as I previously stated, it does not solve the problem. A good test for me is to pause on a dark suit in any version of Law & Order, switch to VGA and back to HDMI1. Then hit the movie mode discrete code. Very noticible difference in shadow detail.

I have done the exact same tests as you with VGA > HDMI 1, except I'm using Standard picture mode. If your problem is like mine, when you hit the movie mode discrete code, the picture darkens a bit. Is that right? (BTW - I'm assuming you were on Movie Mode to begin with).

Did you try to make the change when in the VGA input? It appears that you need to make the change on each input that you are on.

Finally, which "picture" do you like better, the one that is there after you switch from VGA to HDMI 1 or the one that is there after you send the Movie mode discrete code? I happen to like the picture before sending the discrete code, the other one is a bit too dark and turning up brightness doesn't even seem to help that much.

The setting appears to persist for me as well. However, as I previously stated, it does not solve the problem. A good test for me is to pause on a dark suit in any version of Law & Order, switch to VGA and back to HDMI1. Then hit the movie mode discrete code. Very noticible difference in shadow detail.

Before making this change I would see a very noticeable difference in the HDNet test pattern (black detail) after cycling back and forth between modes. Since making the change I see no difference after cycling between modes. I have no idea why it is working for me but it’s the only change I’ve made in the SM other than centering the picture.

I have done the exact same tests as you with VGA > HDMI 1, except I'm using Standard picture mode. If your problem is like mine, when you hit the movie mode discrete code, the picture darkens a bit. Is that right? (BTW - I'm assuming you were on Movie Mode to begin with).

Did you try to make the change when in the VGA input? It appears that you need to make the change on each input that you are on.

Finally, which "picture" do you like better, the one that is there after you switch from VGA to HDMI 1 or the one that is there after you send the Movie mode discrete code? I happen to like the picture before sending the discrete code, the other one is a bit too dark and turning up brightness doesn't even seem to help that much.

I did turn off SNI_PROC_BWS on both HDMI1 and VGA. I'm in Movie mode to begin with. When I switch from HDMI1 -> VGA -> HDMI1, the picture is darker (no amount of brightness will help shadow detail when it's like this). When I hit the Move mode discrete code, the picture brightens. (the pitch blacks show shadow detail) The picture after the movie mode discrete is much better.

I did turn off SNI_PROC_BWS on both HDMI1 and VGA. I'm in Movie mode to begin with. When I switch from HDMI1 -> VGA -> HDMI1, the picture is darker (no amount of brightness will help shadow detail when it's like this). When I hit the Move mode discrete code, the picture brightens. (the pitch blacks show shadow detail) The picture after the movie mode discrete is much better.

Wow - Mine works the exact opposite way (i.e., when I hit the picture mode discrete, it darkens the picture)! It does seem though, that we both favor the brighter picture. I have Gamma set to 0, which is darker than 2. If you have Gamma at 2, that could be the reason it works in opposite ways. What is your Gamma setting?

Vandu - What was your dynamic range problem. Was it like mine or like Goob's?

RMSko,
Before the fix the picture would darken, when I switched inputs.
I had previously set gamma to '0' but when I was completed the fix I changed it back to '2'.

You can always find a USB External Sound card if the laptop supports USB 2.0. Some have optical and coaxial outputs as well.

Hey this sounds promising. Let me look into it! Thanks! :)

RMSko,
Before the fix the picture would darken, when I switched inputs.
I had previously set gamma to '0' but when I was completed the fix I changed it back to '2'.
I assume that the change left you with the brighter picture, which is good. For me, since mine works in the opposite way, I fear that the change will leave me with the darker picture, which is not good!

Wow - Mine works the exact opposite way (i.e., when I hit the picture mode discrete, it darkens the picture)! It does seem though, that we both favor the brighter picture. I have Gamma set to 0, which is darker than 2. If you have Gamma at 2, that could be the reason it works in opposite ways. What is your Gamma setting?

Vandu - What was your dynamic range problem. Was it like mine or like Goob's?

I have Gamma set to 0

B&H Photo/Video in NY...and these guys are as legit as you can get, had a "click here for a new price" and their price on the 5668 was $2999 + about $300 for shipping.

I was actually going to go ahead and order it from B&H, but they sold out before I could. Because they are a known legit company and not one of those NY based places that have three store names with the same address, a guy at a local store was willing to match it. (and actually was $100 cheaper because he said their shipping costs were a lot less)

Maybe I was lucky...don't know. $4000 seems high though...even the hi-end places like Magnolia are a lot lower than that. (though their savings are based on "rebates" that you get as store credit).

SV

After a bit of sleuthing, here is my best guess: the 5668's days are numbered.

The big retailers (CC, BestBuy, Tweeter) either dont carry the 5668 anymore or have a finite amount left in inventory. Magnolia told me their 5668 SKU had been deleted. This combined with the discounting that is going on with the 5668 at many online retailers leads me to believe that the 5668 will be phased out.

The 5678 is the same TV but with a slightly higher end 'look'. I assume Samsung corporate just figured that it wasnt worth segmenting their retailers for this TV.

-etc1

Hey this sounds promising. Let me look into it! Thanks! :)
Creative makes a nice, and very complete, external sound solution for notebooks.

I assume that the change left you with the brighter picture, which is good. For me, since mine works in the opposite way, I fear that the change will leave me with the darker picture, which is not good!

I shouldn’t have said the picture darkens or lightens. I think it depends on the image you are looking at and how your contrast and brightness are setup. The problem I saw was the blacker than black images faded into the black background after changing inputs. They would reappear if I switched modes back and forth. The problem would also show up in a stepped gray scale, where your setup should allow you to discern each step in the gray scale. When I had the problem the last of the darker steps would run together after changing inputs.

I shouldn’t have said the picture darkens or lightens. I think it depends on the image you are looking at and how your contrast and brightness are setup. The problem I saw was the blacker than black images faded into the black background after changing inputs. They would reappear if I switched modes back and forth. The problem would also show up in a stepped gray scale, where your setup should allow you to discern each step in the gray scale. When I had the problem the last of the darker steps would run together after changing inputs.

On a related note, how did you calibrate your set? I am hearing about this HDNET test pattern - but when does it show up and is it available on Comcast in the Bay Area? How do folks feel about AVIA etc to self-calibrate these 1080p sets?

On a related note, how did you calibrate your set? I am hearing about this HDNET test pattern - but when does it show up and is it available on Comcast in the Bay Area? How do folks feel about AVIA etc to self-calibrate these 1080p sets?

I use Avia or Digital Video Essentials for the DVD player input but I use the HDNet test pattern for my cable input. I have the HDNet test patterns recorded on my DVR so I can access them when I want.
The outputs for different DVD players can vary considerably. Using either Avia or DVE settings for your cable input may not be optimal. It’s probably better than nothing but getting a test pattern from your cable company is probably best.
I last found the HDNet test patterns broadcast early on a Tuesday morning however it’s not listed in the menu for next Tuesday. HDNet is offered as part of a Time Warner HD package in my area and costs a few dollars per month. I find it well worth the money for this TV.

Here is the link to test your PC to see if it will play WMV HD 1080i. The link is at the bottom.
http://www.wmvhd.com/

After a bit of sleuthing, here is my best guess: the 5668's days are numbered.

The big retailers (CC, BestBuy, Tweeter) either dont carry the 5668 anymore or have a finite amount left in inventory. Magnolia told me their 5668 SKU had been deleted. This combined with the discounting that is going on with the 5668 at many online retailers leads me to believe that the 5668 will be phased out.

The 5678 is the same TV but with a slightly higher end 'look'. I assume Samsung corporate just figured that it wasnt worth segmenting their retailers for this TV.

-etc1

Ding, Ding, Ding - Wrong Sherlock!

Read here about the differences between the 68 and 78 series.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493443

The 5668 is very alive and well. Just because they are not yet in BB and CC (not sure about Tweeter), does not mean they are history. The local BB says they will not even be on display until January. The have to get rid of the old, decrepid (;)) 720p stock first.

Hello,

I just bought a 6168 after much deliberation. I have been very happy with the PQ, except for the black level adjustment. There is a lot of distortion in some but not all dark scenes (Macroblocking ?). After using AVIA to calibrate the set (samsung 941 dvd player via HDMI) I am unable to see either of the moving black bars under the black level adjustment screen. I have tried all levels of contrast and brightness to no avail. I have also tried component inputs with no luck. Is this just a problem with this set and/or dvd player, something inherent with digital DLP sets, or am I doing something wrong. I've search this thread a lot, and got many questions answered but I'm unable to find conclusive answers to this.

Thanks,

I will try to post screenshot from Invasion.

Hello Everyone! I need your help here. This thread is way too long for me to read. I bought a 60" Sony SXRD and have found out that there is a problem on these sets when the screen is black and you are in total darkness you can see colors! I can't live with this so my next thought was a 1080p Samsung. Are there any major issues that I need to be concerned with? Are there any lip sync problems? Are you guys happy with the PQ. Any info you can give me would be great. Thanks a lot!!

Hello,

I just bought a 6168 after much deliberation. I have been very happy with the PQ, except for the black level adjustment. There is a lot of distortion in some but not all dark scenes (Macroblocking ?). After using AVIA to calibrate the set (samsung 941 dvd player via HDMI) I am unable to see either of the moving black bars under the black level adjustment screen. I have tried all levels of contrast and brightness to no avail. I have also tried component inputs with no luck. Is this just a problem with this set and/or dvd player, something inherent with digital DLP sets, or am I doing something wrong. I've search this thread a lot, and got many questions answered but I'm unable to find conclusive answers to this.

Thanks,

I will try to post screenshot from Invasion.

The 941 does not pass blacker-than-blacker ... so, your black levels and detail is not going to be optimal. It also contains a Genesis chip and may be exhibiting macroblocking. Try something like the Sony NS3100ES and I think you will be happy.

Ding, Ding, Ding - Wrong Sherlock!

Read here about the differences between the 68 and 78 series.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493443

The 5668 is very alive and well. Just because they are not yet in BB and CC (not sure about Tweeter), does not mean they are history. The local BB says they will not even be on display until January. The have to get rid of the old, decrepid (;)) 720p stock first.

So how do you explain the discounting that the 5668 now exhibits. Remember, the 5678 was originally destined for the high end retailers vs. the 68. The official press release show a slightly higher MSRP for the 78s.

Now all we see are 78s at the major retailer both on and off line for $4000 while the 68 is $3200 or less. You dont discount the January's hot item in Nov.

Hello Everyone! I need your help here. This thread is way too long for me to read. I bought a 60" Sony SXRD and have found out that there is a problem on these sets when the screen is black and you are in total darkness you can see colors! I can't live with this so my next thought was a 1080p Samsung. Are there any major issues that I need to be concerned with? Are there any lip sync problems? Are you guys happy with the PQ. Any info you can give me would be great. Thanks a lot!!

Are you bothered by the rainbow effect? If so, DLP technology may not be the right choice for you. If you are not sensitive to rainbows, then DLP is probably the best RPTV that you can buy today.

IMO, you should choose between Samsung and HP. Samsung HLR series will take external 1080p input over VGA; however, they will definitely not take it over HDMI. HP sets will accept 1080p over HDMI but not over VGA. HP is currently the only shipping RPTV that accepts 1080p over HDMI. Both Samsung and HP will accept upscaled DVD input at 1080i over HDMI.

HP design is either love or hate relationship. If you don't mind fairly big side mounted speakers and outward sloping bottom bulge (that allows you to connect cables from the front), then HP may be the ticket. Samsung has universally appealing design, with bottom mounted speakers, and very nice floating top section in xx68 series. Another Samsung variant (xx78) eliminates the floating concept and adds reflective bezel but is otherwise identical. Finally, there is also the xx88 series with built-in pedestal that is absolutely drop dead gorgeous (no other design comes even close).

HP has better built-in sound: more powerful speakers, tighter and better extended bass, more full range. It also weighs additional 40 pounds.

Samsung is a v.4 product, whereas HP is a v.1 product. It remains to be seen how reliable HP sets are. Judging by all accounts in the HP owners thread, these sets are top notch in quality and user satisfaction.

Picture quality from HD programming is remarkable on both sets. They use the same wobulated 1080p TI chip. Picture quality from HTPC is also top notch. The fact that Samsung connects over VGA and HP over HDMI makes little difference. In either case, you will be hard pressed to produce better picture quality from a standalone DVD player connected via HDMI. There is a glowing review of HP set in the November issue of Sound & Vision magazine; there are no magazine reviews of Samsung 1080p sets.

HP appears to be less susceptible to audio synch issues. For example, if you connect audio from external sources (DVD player, STB) directly to your AV receiver, some amount of audio lag is inevitable because of video processing that takes place inside the TV. With HDMI inputs, HP handles audio-video synch better than Samsung. There is no audio lag when using the VGA input on Samsung.

HP is generally preferred for gaming; Samsung less so because of audio lag. However, there are quite a few accounts in this thread of serious gamers who are using Samsung without problems. Conversely, there are many folks who have expressed frustration with Samsung lip sync issues.

Why have I disregarded Toshiba and Mitsubishi DLP sets? IMO, their HD programming picture quality is comparable to that of Samsung and HP; however, they do have one fatal flaw: neither brand can be used with HTPC at 1080p. Their HDMI inputs will take 1080i but connecting a PC to these inputs is a hit or miss scenario: it may work with some graphics cards but it usually does not work at all. Both manufacturers warn users against connecting PC to HDMI inputs (Toshiba even threatens to void the warranty). Mitsubishi does not even have a VGA input unless you are prepared to pay top dollar for their most expensive 927 series (that unfortunately comes with the dreaded glare-inducing screen). However, with both Toshiba and Mitsubishi (as well as HP and Sony SXRD), the VGA input is truly perfunctory, with subpar picture quality, low supported resolution (far from 1920x1080), and really not meant to connect to anything.

Sony SXRD is the ugliest set of all, IMO. The side mounted speakers have visible gaps relative to the screen. There is also striking visual disconnect between the speaker frame and the rest of the set. I cannot believe that this design will survive next year. Sony is probably the worst of all sets for HTPC applications: it simply wasn't meant for computers. Their VGA input is truly good for nothing, and connecting a PC over HDMI is usually an exercise in frustration. It has worked for some folks but there are simply too many failure reports to warrant careful in-store evaluation (with Samsung and HP, it just works every time). But Sony is capable of producing excellent picture indeed. The blue hue issue has surfaced on many sets, and there are also issues with color convergence. These problems could be related to poor QA on Sony's part because there are many very happy owners posting in the SXRD thread. And, BTW, there are no rainbow issues with SXRD.

I was wondering if someone who owns a 6168 could do me a favor :) Would anyone perchance be willing to take a tape measure, and measure the physical width of the their 6168? Everywhere I look it's listed as 56.9", but I'm a bit nervous because my entertainment center is almost exactly 58" across. None of the retail stores by me have a 6168 model that I could look at, and I'd just like some verification as to it's size, to make certain I don't have problems.

EDIT: bundi and StallionRe have confirmed that the set is exactly 56 7/8".

The 941 does not pass blacker-than-blacker ... so, your black levels and detail is not going to be optimal. It also contains a Genesis chip and may be exhibiting macroblocking. Try something like the Sony NS3100ES and I think you will be happy.

I have the Sony NS3100ES and I am extremely happy with it. After having my set calibrated, and using this player with the Cinema 1 mode, I have detail in my blacks and a VERY good picture on top of it.

I was wondering if someone who owns a 6168 could do me a favor :) Would anyone perchance be willing to take a tape measure, and measure the physical width of the their 6168? Everywhere I look it's listed as 56.9", but I'm a bit nervous because my entertainment center is almost exactly 58" across. None of the retail stores by me have a 6168 model that I could look at, and I'd just like some verification as to it's size, to make certain I don't have problems.


56 7/8" wide exactly

So how do you explain the discounting that the 5668 now exhibits. Remember, the 5678 was originally destined for the high end retailers vs. the 68. The official press release show a slightly higher MSRP for the 78s.

Now all we see are 78s at the major retailer both on and off line for $4000 while the 68 is $3200 or less. You dont discount the January's hot item in Nov.

That''s because the 32K price is not a discounted price. It is what the TV should have been at all along (that's about what the powerbuy price was at). One of my local shops (Not BB or CC) started at 5K for the 5668, they are now down to 4K.

The guy that did the calibration of my TV (Kevin Miller of ISFTV) is a consultant for Samsung and has been meeting with them this week. He raised the "dynamic range" issue with them and they have been working on it for the last day or so. He believes they have come up with a permanent fix. He said you need to go into the SM and under DNIe there is an item called "SNI_PROC_BWS". He said you need to set this to "Off" and it should fix the problem permanently. I'm at work now so I won't be able to try it until I get home, but if anyone can try this and report back, that would be great. Thanks.

BTW - Kevin did an amazing job calibrating my set. If you live in the NY area, I highly recommend him.
Unfortunately this didn't work for me either so it's back to replacing the digital board, although I'm not sure if that will fix the problem either. Is there anyone with firmware later than 7/05 that does not have the dynamic range problem?

there are no magazine reviews of Samsung 1080p sets.

.UPDATE!!!! Yesterday I received my Sound & Vision magazine and they have a exclusive review on the Samsung HLR 6168. :)

Their main complaint was you could not turn off the DNIe feature.

56 7/8" wide exactly
Thank you very much bundi :D That's a very quick response, and I really appreciate! You've been a big help.

Some questions:

According to a CNet editor (reviews cnet com/4520-6449_7-6361600-1.html?tag=disc - replace spaces with dots), it doesn't seem that the Samsung line can actually take in 1080p input.
In our experience, only the aforementioned HP can handle 1080p via its HDMI inputs--all other current 1080p HDTVs cannot. Instead, they upconvert 720p and 1080i sources to 1080p.
Is this guy right? (or is he only talking about HDMI, and not component?) Does the Samsung line upconvert everything to 1080p, or will it actually be able to take in a 1080p source in the future (like the PS3)?

And what are the opinions of people here on non-1080p sources - do people think that 1080p offers any noticable quality improvement over 720p/1080i?

Some questions:

According to a CNet editor (reviews cnet com/4520-6449_7-6361600-1.html?tag=disc - replace spaces with dots), it doesn't seem that the Samsung line can actually take in 1080p input.

Is this guy right? (or is he only talking about HDMI, and not component?) Does the Samsung line upconvert everything to 1080p, or will it actually be able to take in a 1080p source in the future (like the PS3)?

And what are the opinions of people here on non-1080p sources - do people think that 1080p offers any noticable quality improvement over 720p/1080i?

He's talking HDMI only. Samsungs take 1080p via VGA only. I can't tell the difference between a high quality 1080i broadcast over HDMI and a 1080p DVD over VGA. They are both incredible.

So how do you explain the discounting that the 5668 now exhibits.
It's called capitalism.

He's talking HDMI only. Samsungs take 1080p via VGA only. I can't tell the difference between a high quality 1080i broadcast over HDMI and a 1080p DVD over VGA. They are both incredible.

I don't know whether anyone has tried it, but way back when, it was my understanding that 1394 (firewire) would also take a 1080p signal. Also if there was anyone sending a 1080p broadcast signal (no there isn't anyone and it isn't likely to happen anytime soon) that the internal tuner would accept a 1080p signal.

Hello,

I just bought a 6168 after much deliberation. I have been very happy with the PQ, except for the black level adjustment. There is a lot of distortion in some but not all dark scenes (Macroblocking ?). After using AVIA to calibrate the set (samsung 941 dvd player via HDMI) I am unable to see either of the moving black bars under the black level adjustment screen. I have tried all levels of contrast and brightness to no avail. I have also tried component inputs with no luck. Is this just a problem with this set and/or dvd player, something inherent with digital DLP sets, or am I doing something wrong. I've search this thread a lot, and got many questions answered but I'm unable to find conclusive answers to this.

Thanks,

I will try to post screenshot from Invasion.

I am having the exact same problem and hate that. Maybe when my calibration is done, it will not look like this anymore. Thanks for the pic. Is everyone here seeing this on their TV?
Did anyone here have their set calibrated? and did it take this problem away?

Thanks.

I was wondering if someone who owns a 6168 could do me a favor :) Would anyone perchance be willing to take a tape measure, and measure the physical width of the their 6168? Everywhere I look it's listed as 56.9", but I'm a bit nervous because my entertainment center is almost exactly 58" across. None of the retail stores by me have a 6168 model that I could look at, and I'd just like some verification as to it's size, to make certain I don't have problems.

The size is exactly 56 7/8". I measured this at the store. However, you should have some room so the case is not right up against your entertainment center. That is why they state 56.9" Also for the side controls to have room.

He's talking HDMI only. Samsungs take 1080p via VGA only. I can't tell the difference between a high quality 1080i broadcast over HDMI and a 1080p DVD over VGA. They are both incredible.

That's a big claim Goob. I recently built an HTPC MCE2005 Nvidia 6600 and pure video decoder feeding vga at 1080p and my dvd playback results are barely better than my cheapo 480i dvd player. What am I doing wrong?

That's a big claim Goob. I recently built an HTPC MCE2005 Nvidia 6600 and pure video decoder feeding vga at 1080p and my dvd playback results are barely better than my cheapo 480i dvd player. What am I doing wrong?
He indicated he was playing a 1080p DVD. That said, I didn't know any 1080p DVD's existed so he may have meant he's playing a regular DVD that is being upconverted to 1080p over VGA, which I do not believe is any different than using a standard upconverting DVD player via HDMI.

That's a big claim Goob. I recently built an HTPC MCE2005 Nvidia 6600 and pure video decoder feeding vga at 1080p and my dvd playback results are barely better than my cheapo 480i dvd player. What am I doing wrong?

I was referring to WMVHD DVDs (1080p source DVDs) and comparing that to high bitrate 1080i broadcasts. Regarding regular DVD playback, I get much better results on my HTPC than with my cheapo 480i DVD player. I use Zoom Player with DScaler 5 mpeg decoder and ffdshow for resizing and sharpening. (A64 3200+, 1GB RAM, NVidia 6600GT, XP Pro) Then again, I'm probably not as discriminating when it comes to picture quality.

That's a big claim Goob. I recently built an HTPC MCE2005 Nvidia 6600 and pure video decoder feeding vga at 1080p and my dvd playback results are barely better than my cheapo 480i dvd player. What am I doing wrong?

Nothing.

If you can, borrow a well respected DVD player (e.g., Denon 3910 or Pioneer 59) that you can connect via HDMI, and then do your comparison using good quality DVDs.

There are two reports buried in this thread of ISF certified technicians claiming that HTPC produced better picture quality than any DVD player they had ever tested.

I have MSI 6600GT and nVidia PureVideo decoder in my MCE box. Picture quality is remarkable.

Hello,

I just bought a 6168 after much deliberation. I have been very happy with the PQ, except for the black level adjustment. There is a lot of distortion in some but not all dark scenes (Macroblocking ?). After using AVIA to calibrate the set (samsung 941 dvd player via HDMI) I am unable to see either of the moving black bars under the black level adjustment screen. I have tried all levels of contrast and brightness to no avail. I have also tried component inputs with no luck. Is this just a problem with this set and/or dvd player, something inherent with digital DLP sets, or am I doing something wrong. I've search this thread a lot, and got many questions answered but I'm unable to find conclusive answers to this.

Thanks,

I will try to post screenshot from Invasion.


Hello bundi,

I suffered the EXACT same experience with my 6768, right down to the inability to calibrate the set with Avia because the bars (for contrast AND brightness test screens) were simply not visible. Those dark, inky, concentric, blobs often "ghosted" (sp?) into the next screen and it drove me mad. I was also unable to calibrate properly using the THX method found on THX DVD's.

The kicker was when a friend bought the Samsung 56" 720p model - which I was able to calibrate perfectly to an incredible picture. It did not justify the extra $1500 that I spent on my 'technologically advanced' set. I asked this exact question on the calibration forum and many agree that this black problem may also be caused the the DNIe function on HD broadcasts, a feature that cannot be turned off on the set.

The result? - the TV was returned to the box store (even though I got it at an incredible price due to a misprint unbeknownst to me and the salesman) and the 65" HP purchased for TV Authority is being delivered tonight.

Maybe a professional calibration will make a difference, but for me it was an unacceptable flaw that unbelievably has not been made a bigger deal out of by many afficionado's that frequent this forum. I am typically not a wavemaker and as a rule don't put myself through hassles unless they are absolutely warranted, and this situation qualified.

Will let you know if I experience the same problem on the HP!

Hello bundi,

I suffered the EXACT same experience with my 6768, right down to the inability to calibrate the set with Avia because the bars (for contrast AND brightness test screens) were simply not visible. Those dark, inky, concentric, blobs often "ghosted" (sp?) into the next screen and it drove me mad. I was also unable to calibrate properly using the THX method found on THX DVD's.

The kicker was when a friend bought the Samsung 56" 720p model - which I was able to calibrate perfectly to an incredible picture. It did not justify the extra $1500 that I spent on my 'technologically advanced' set. I asked this exact question on the calibration forum and many agree that this black problem may also be caused the the DNIe function on HD broadcasts, a feature that cannot be turned off on the set.

The result? - the TV was returned to the box store (even though I got it at an incredible price due to a misprint unbeknownst to me and the salesman) and the 65" HP purchased for TV Authority is being delivered tonight.

Maybe a professional calibration will make a difference, but for me it was an unacceptable flaw that unbelievably has not been made a bigger deal out of by many afficionado's that frequent this forum. I am typically not a wavemaker and as a rule don't put myself through hassles unless they are absolutely warranted, and this situation qualified.

Will let you know if I experience the same problem on the HP!
Are you sure that the DVD player you were using passes BTB? I have a 1080p Samsung (5668) and I've calibrated it via my Sony DVD player using DVE, Sound & Vision and THX and for all three I was able to see the BTB levels. It may be that the problem was with your DVD player and not the TV.

Are you sure that the DVD player you were using passes BTB? I have a 1080p Samsung (5668) and I've calibrated it via my Sony DVD player using DVE, Sound & Vision and THX and for all three I was able to see the BTB levels. It may be that the problem was with your DVD player and not the TV.

My DVD player is a respectable Sony 975 DVD/SACD using HDMI - I don't think that this is the problem but anything is possible. However I also restested using a cheaper Sony 575 progressive scan and the results were the same.

Still doesn't explain the inky black problems that the TV has had over cable HD broadcasts though.

The true test will by my comparison with the 65" HP being delivered tonight.

Thanks,

Brad

My DVD player is a respectable Sony 975 DVD/SACD using HDMI - I don't think that this is the problem but anything is possible. However I also restested using a cheaper Sony 575 progressive scan and the results were the same.

Still doesn't explain the inky black problems that the TV has had over cable HD broadcasts though.

The true test will by my comparison with the 65" HP being delivered tonight.

Thanks,

Brad

For the Sony to pass BTB, you need to go into manual mode settings in the DVD player's menu. You then need to adjust those settings until it passes BTB. Most of the other modes don't pass BTB.

Interestingly, I have an HD TiVo and when using the HDNet Test Pattern, I'm not able to pass the brightness test. I was able to pass that test with my former Samsung 720p set. This seems similar to your cable box results. It'll be interesting to hear about your results with the HP.

My DVD player is a respectable Sony 975 DVD/SACD using HDMI - I don't think that this is the problem but anything is possible. However I also restested using a cheaper Sony 575 progressive scan and the results were the same.

Still doesn't explain the inky black problems that the TV has had over cable HD broadcasts though.

The true test will by my comparison with the 65" HP being delivered tonight.

Thanks,

Brad

On the 975 you can only get blacker-than-black performance on Cinema 1, Cinema 2, and Manual (picture=-2, brightness=2) picture modes. If you are in standard, dynamic 1 or dynamic 2 mode, you will get crushed blacks and black detail.

On the 975 you can only get blacker-than-black performance on Cinema 1, Cinema 2, and Manual (picture=-2, brightness=2) picture modes. If you are in standard, dynamic 1 or dynamic 2 mode, you will get crushed blacks and black detail.

Thanks for the tip UCSB, I wasn't aware of this!

Steve Martin from Smart Calibration (http://www.smartcalibration.com/) came out today and calibrated my Samsung HL-R5668W. Nice guy, and very knowledgable. The entire experience was great, and despite being skeptical of the need for calibration in general, I'm now very happy having spent the money. The colors look a lot better, as many have described here before.

We made some very important breakthroughs today that you all should be interested to hear about. I'll do my best to explain what Steve figured out, and let him chime in if I get it wrong. :)

Permanently disabling edge enhancement effects
This IS possible. As we all know from a lot of discussion here, if you go into the service menu and turn DNIe off, it defaults back to on when you turn off the TV. Not very useful, and very destructive to picture quality. Steve took a lot of time and effort and figured out how to turn off the individual edge enhancement effects that the DNIe function performs. In the service menu, turning SNI_PROC_DEP and SNI_PROC_DCE to OFF disabled edge enhancement completely, and the best part is that it sticks! Neither turning off the TV (both quickly and leaving it off for a long time) or entering the service menu affect the state of these two values. Note that there are plenty of other SNI_PROC settings in there, and he experimented with turning them all off, with no visible results in picture quality, colors, blacks, whites, etc. I watched as Steve turned these settings off for all of my inputs and compared it to a test pattern showing fine black lines on a gray background, and indeed, the white edges created by Samsung's awful edge enhancement completely went away. The way I see it, this solves the problem and the online petition can be scrapped. I'm looking for others to confirm this, so please let me know your experiences.

Dynamic range problem fix
The solution mentioned earlier in this thread worked, and stuck after power cycles, etc. SNI_PROC_BWS does in fact make everything happy.

1:1 pixel mapping not really active
Not good news here. There's a service menu setting called 1080I_OVERSCAN that is set to off by default. I don't remember which sub-menu it's under, but it's hidden somewhere unintuitive. When viewing the pixel multi-burst pattern from the Accupel HDG3000 disk, it's obvious from the far right column that the Sammy wasn't mapping pixels 1:1 over any of the inputs (HDMI, component, etc). Then Steve did some experimenting with the 1080I_OVERSCAN setting: he turned it on and then back off, and guess what? 1:1 mapping started working! So, despite being off by default, it doesn't actually work unless you go in there and turn it on and back off. Weird. The bad part is that the setting doesn't stick. Turning off the TV keeps the value set to off, but the test pattern clearly shows that the set no longer exhibits 1:1 pixel mapping. Of course, going into the service menu and turning it off every time you watch TV is an option, but he couldn't find a permanent workaround. Hopefully, Samsung will fix this in a future firmware upgrade.

Service menu discrete code doesn't work
Steve brought a remote into which he had programmed the standard Samsung discrete code to enter the service menu. It was taken from a Pronto hex code found here somewhere and mapped over to an MX-500. It worked for his Sammy 720p set but not my 5668. We also tried it with my remote and it just wouldn't put my set in service mode. He speculated that Samsung changed it for the HLR models. Any insight from you all would be appreciated.

Hope this helps!

Dynamic range problem fix
The solution mentioned earlier in this thread worked, and stuck after power cycles, etc. SNI_PROC_BWS does in fact make everything happy.
Unfortunately this suggested solution definitely did NOT work for my 5668. What firmware version do you have?

Service menu discrete code doesn't work
Steve brought a remote into which he had programmed the standard Samsung discrete code to enter the service menu. It was taken from a Pronto hex code found here somewhere and mapped over to an MX-500. It worked for his Sammy 720p set but not my 5668. We also tried it with my remote and it just wouldn't put my set in service mode. He speculated that Samsung changed it for the HLR models. Any insight from you all would be appreciated.
The discrete code DOES work for my Pronto remote as long as you hit "Info" first.

He's talking HDMI only. Samsungs take 1080p via VGA only. I can't tell the difference between a high quality 1080i broadcast over HDMI and a 1080p DVD over VGA. They are both incredible.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is VGA input, and do most DVD players/gaming console offer that? Or would have I to get something like a component/VGA converter?

I guess basically what I'm asking, is whether future 1080p sources (like the PS3 and possibly future DVD players) will be able to be used on Samsung 1080p sets without conversion.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is VGA input,
It's the input for a PC on the back of the TV. You connect via a PC monitor (VGA) cable.

It's the input for a PC on the back of the TV. You connect via a PC monitor (VGA) cable.
Ah yes, I am aware of VGA relative to PCs, but how does it relate to DVD players/consoles? i.e., if I'm not intending to output my PC to the TV, is there any utility from this?

Ah yes, I am aware of VGA relative to PCs, but how does it relate to DVD players/consoles? i.e., if I'm not intending to output my PC to the TV, is there any utility from this?
Many people use their PC for home theatre and watch DVD's through the PC. If you're not hooking up a PC to the TV, then it won't help you. BTW - you may want to consider hooking up a PC. The TV makes an awesome monitor, especially at 1080p!

Unfortunately this suggested solution definitely did NOT work for my 5668. What firmware version do you have?
T_EXCAAUS0_8015
2005-07-16
T_DTVUCOM5_8076
T_SCALER_0102
T_EXCAAUS1_0097

T_EXCAAUS0_8015
2005-07-16
T_DTVUCOM5_8076
T_SCALER_0102
T_EXCAAUS1_0097

Hmmmm - I have the same firmware. I don't know why it works for some, but not others. I'm having a new digital board put in tomorrow so hopefully that will fix the issue and if it doesn't, hopefully this other fix will work. BTW - excellent post re disabling the edge enhancement.

IMO, you should choose between Samsung and HP. Samsung HLR series will take external 1080p input over VGA; however, they will definitely not take it over HDMI. HP sets will accept 1080p over HDMI but not over VGA. HP is currently the only shipping RPTV that accepts 1080p over HDMI. Both Samsung and HP will accept upscaled DVD input at 1080i over HDMI.
.

I'm surprised that HP outputs 1080p over HDMI. I thought HDMI cannot handle the data bandwidth of 1080p.

My understanding is there are only two ways to transmit 1080p video: 1. VGA and 2. Compressed video through FireWire.

Some questions:

According to a CNet editor (reviews cnet com/4520-6449_7-6361600-1.html?tag=disc - replace spaces with dots), it doesn't seem that the Samsung line can actually take in 1080p input.

Is this guy right? (or is he only talking about HDMI, and not component?) Does the Samsung line upconvert everything to 1080p, or will it actually be able to take in a 1080p source in the future (like the PS3)?

And what are the opinions of people here on non-1080p sources - do people think that 1080p offers any noticable quality improvement over 720p/1080i?

Here's my understanding:

There is currently no "video" source that is truly 1080p. Either there are no professional 1080p digicams available, or, if they exist, they are not widely deployed at studios yet.

The only "native" 1080p video are computer-generated materials such as games on the next generation game consoles.

Bigray327,
I hadn’t turned off DNIe before so I didn’t know how much improvement to expect. I could see the edge enhancement but I didn’t realize how much of an improvement it would make to turn it off. Turning off SNI_PROC_DEP had the biggest impact but turning off SNI_PROC_DCE also helped. The picture is outstanding with these items turned off.
Anyone owning one of these sets needs to try this.
Thank you for the excellent recommendation.

Many people use their PC for home theatre and watch DVD's through the PC. If you're not hooking up a PC to the TV, then it won't help you.
So am I understanding this correctly: the Samsung 68 series only accepts 1080p native from VGA sources, and future DVD players/consoles will not have VGA output?

Here's my understanding:

There is currently no "video" source that is truly 1080p. Either there are no professional 1080p digicams available, or, if they exist, they are not widely deployed at studios yet.

The only "native" 1080p video are computer-generated materials such as games on the next generation game consoles.
I realize that there's not any 1080p sources right now, but what I want to know is if the 68's will take in native 1080p sources like the PS3, without conversion.

If the 68's only take in 1080p via VGA, does this mean that the PS3 1080p output (which I assume will come from component or HDMI) will be useless; and that the Samsung will only display upconverted 720p/1080i?

It appears that future video cards for PCs will be 1080p HDMI. I keep checking for info. It is probably at least a year away.

[The discrete code DOES work for my Pronto remote as long as you hit "Info" first.

Argh. I was really scratching my head when it didn't work. Of course, you do need to hit "Info" first. Hopefully the need for that hack is passed us now anyway, unless of course you want to make a macro to quickly turn on 1:1 1080i pixel mapping ;)

I'm surprised that HP outputs 1080p over HDMI. I thought HDMI cannot handle the data bandwidth of 1080p.

My understanding is there are only two ways to transmit 1080p video: 1. VGA and 2. Compressed video through FireWire.

HP DLP sets will accept a 1080p input over HDMI. For example, you can connect a PC via DVI->HDMI cable and send 1920x1080 at 60Hz just fine to HP over the HDMI input. HDMI does not have the bandwidth limitation that you mentioned.

Here's my understanding:

There is currently no "video" source that is truly 1080p. Either there are no professional 1080p digicams available, or, if they exist, they are not widely deployed at studios yet.

The only "native" 1080p video are computer-generated materials such as games on the next generation game consoles.

Some WMV HD movies have native 1080p resolution. You can purchase them on DVD and play them on your Windows XP computer connected to 1080p set. The picture quality is stunning.

Forthcoming Xbox 360 games will go up to 1080i. The new DVD format from DVD Forum (HD-DVD) will also go up to 1080i. As for the Blu-ray format, it is hard to say at this point what resolutions will be supported. There are some speculations that it may be up to 1080 at 24 fps; however, for broad compatibility Blu-ray will most likely work just fine at 1080i. Then there is Sony PS3. At this point, everything about PS3 is pure hype. Plain and simple. I'll believe it when I see it (assuming they actually ship anything).

Anyone owning one of these sets needs to try this. Thank you for the excellent recommendation.
All the thanks go to Cheezmo, I just typed it up. :)

So am I understanding this correctly: the Samsung 68 series only accepts 1080p native from VGA sources, and future DVD players/consoles will not have VGA output?


I realize that there's not any 1080p sources right now, but what I want to know is if the 68's will take in native 1080p sources like the PS3, without conversion.

If the 68's only take in 1080p via VGA, does this mean that the PS3 1080p output (which I assume will come from component or HDMI) will be useless; and that the Samsung will only display upconverted 720p/1080i?

The only known 1080p input into a Samsung is VGA. I saw it at Fry's. I opened Control Panel and verified that it was indeed displaying at 1920x1080 60Hz. I don't know if PS3 or Xbox 360 will output VGA.

So am I understanding this correctly: the Samsung 68 series only accepts 1080p native from VGA sources, and future DVD players/consoles will not have VGA output?


I realize that there's not any 1080p sources right now, but what I want to know is if the 68's will take in native 1080p sources like the PS3, without conversion.

If the 68's only take in 1080p via VGA, does this mean that the PS3 1080p output (which I assume will come from component or HDMI) will be useless; and that the Samsung will only display upconverted 720p/1080i?

Yes, Samsung will accept 1080p only over VGA. Therefore, it is useful only for HTPC hook-up.

There are two broadly available 1080p sources today: computers and external video scalers. The majority of today's graphics cards will comfortably send 1920x1080 at 60Hz, which is 1080p. They are also fairly inexpensive. External scalers can improve the picture quality of all your sources (especially SD TV programming); however, they tend to cost $1500 or more.

PS3 1080p output will indeed be useless because it will most likely never materialize. It will be a major accomplishment for Sony to actually ship any game console next year. You are right, though, that it is extremely unlikely that you will be able to connect Sony PS3 to Samsung HLR series by sending a 1080p signal over VGA.

[...]
1:1 pixel mapping not really active
Not good news here. There's a service menu setting called 1080I_OVERSCAN that is set to off by default. I don't remember which sub-menu it's under, but it's hidden somewhere unintuitive. When viewing the pixel multi-burst pattern from the Accupel HDG3000 disk, it's obvious from the far right column that the Sammy wasn't mapping pixels 1:1 over any of the inputs (HDMI, component, etc). Then Steve did some experimenting with the 1080I_OVERSCAN setting: he turned it on and then back off, and guess what? 1:1 mapping started working! So, despite being off by default, it doesn't actually work unless you go in there and turn it on and back off. Weird. The bad part is that the setting doesn't stick. Turning off the TV keeps the value set to off, but the test pattern clearly shows that the set no longer exhibits 1:1 pixel mapping. Of course, going into the service menu and turning it off every time you watch TV is an option, but he couldn't find a permanent workaround. Hopefully, Samsung will fix this in a future firmware upgrade.!

Yes, this has been reported on this thread before. It's in the GM1601 section of the service menu. You can see the difference in clarity just by looking at the on-screen menus. It's pretty annoying that the setting doesn't "stick" but luckily, it doesn't affect the VGA input and it's possible to get 1:1 mapping on the VGA port.

I know this has probably been posted here several times but do the 1080p sets have audio lag problems? I appreciate any responses. Thanks!

I have not been able to determine the difference between the HL-R6168W and the HL-R6178W other than the 78 weighs 5 more pounds and costs $700 more. Can anyone enlighten me?

I have not been able to determine the difference between the HL-R6168W and the HL-R6178W other than the 78 weighs 5 more pounds and costs $700 more. Can anyone enlighten me?
It is believed that the differences are purely cosmetic; see http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6370283-5.html. The second post in this thread says that the 78 series has a "black lacquer bezel", while the 68 has a "floating screen design".

Also, the 68 series does not have a 50" model; and the 78 has a 71" instead of a 67".

Thanks chrislam and sdv5 for your informative replies.

Yes, Samsung will accept 1080p only over VGA. Therefore, it is useful only for HTPC hook-up. ... it is extremely unlikely that you will be able to connect Sony PS3 to Samsung HLR series by sending a 1080p signal over VGA.
Hmmm. This makes me wonder whether to get the 6168 series, or the 6167 instead for $800 less.

I'm sure that this has been an ongoing debate here about this around here. Has there been any sort of consensus? Are there a significant number of people who see an improvement in picture quality due to 1080p upconversion?

I know this has probably been posted here several times but do the 1080p sets have audio lag problems? I appreciate any responses. Thanks!

Yes, they do. It varies for different input devices, but I have my delays set in the 110 ms to 120 ms range on my HDMI inputs.

Hmmm. This makes me wonder whether to get the 6168 series, or the 6167 instead for $800 less.

The XX67's that I've seen have a much more limited service menu (of course that may change with different firmware revisions) and much of the disabling of DNIe's picture distortions can not be done. That alone would be a reason to stick with the 1080p models in my opinion.

I have not been able to determine the difference between the HL-R6168W and the HL-R6178W other than the 78 weighs 5 more pounds and costs $700 more. Can anyone enlighten me?

The only difference is the case. The xx78 series is $300 more than the xx68 series.

If you want to get more information, read this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4954868#post4954868

Thanks a lot that is of great help. That pretty much helps me decide to go with TVAuthority since Vann's does not sell the 68.

Hello all,
I finally dropped the hammer on a Hlr5078 today at Tweeter. They are having a sale this week and I saved about $500 on this set. I wont actually wont be geting it until next month( still owe a little more on it) :( They were really pushing the extended warranty (4 years for $499) which seems really steep to me. It did include the first bulb replacement though. I passed it up, Im hoping by the time I need a bulb they will have come down in price considerably. Does anyone know about how long the bulb will last? I have heard 3000 hours one place and 30000 hours somewhere else :confused: Also if someone still has their box can you please measure it for me, Im trying to see if the tv will fit in my wifes van.
thanks

Hello all,
I finally dropped the hammer on a Hlr5078 today at Tweeter. They are having a sale this week and I saved about $500 on this set. I wont actually wont be geting it until next month( still owe a little more on it) :( They were really pushing the extended warranty (4 years for $499) which seems really steep to me. It did include the first bulb replacement though. I passed it up, Im hoping by the time I need a bulb they will have come down in price considerably. Does anyone know about how long the bulb will last? I have heard 3000 hours one place and 30000 hours somewhere else :confused: Also if someone still has their box can you please measure it for me, Im trying to see if the tv will fit in my wifes van.
thanks

Bulb life varies, but they are spec'd for 8,000 hours.

What causes the Samsung DLP's to have a audio lag while the other RP sets don't have this (such as Sony SXRD)?

What causes the Samsung DLP's to have a audio lag while the other RP sets don't have this (such as Sony SXRD)?
The problem is actually video lag on the TV ... so the sound needs to be delayed. The Samsung sets process the incoming video signal to create the 1080p image that is displayed. This processing takes time and that results in the video delay. Design trade-offs on the Samsung sets resulted in the problem ... but, it is very easy to fix (except for gamers). Just delay the audio and all is well.

Yes, they do. It varies for different input devices, but I have my delays set in the 110 ms to 120 ms range on my HDMI inputs.
Is there a lag for component and S-Video as well? And is the HDMI lag noticeable during casual movie watching (.1 seconds sounds pretty significant...)

The XX67's that I've seen have a much more limited service menu (of course that may change with different firmware revisions) and much of the disabling of DNIe's picture distortions can not be done. That alone would be a reason to stick with the 1080p models in my opinion.
In all honesty, I'm just trying to find reasons to rationalize the 68 series purchase ;) I just don't want to spend the extra money if there is truly no benefit in terms of picture quality.

The service menu advantage over the xxx7's is good to hear, though now I'm quite concerned about this audio lag :confused:

Design trade-offs on the Samsung sets resulted in the problem ... but, it is very easy to fix (except for gamers). Just delay the audio and all is well.
Thanks.

And reading elsewhere in the thread, it seems that only some gamers experience this problem, right? (or is it that only some are sensitive to it?)

Anyway, I'm really looking for someone to tell me whether or not upconversion to 1080p is a noticeable (in their opinion) improvement over 720p/1080i, so I can decide to buy this puppy...

There is absolutely no lag on the VGA input, and I remain in HTPC bliss. As for HDMI and component inputs, the lag can be compensated by AV receiver or Felston device. Gamers are typically the only people that may find Samsung 1080p unacceptable, especially those that play fast paced action games.

As for 720p versus 1080p, there is absolutely no dilemma in my mind whatsoever. The difference in resolution is very noticeable especially if you have a 56-in set or bigger. There is also a pronounced difference in contrast ratio and brightness. 1080p is a much, much better set, and it's absolutely worth the extra money. You should consider the older set only if you are on a very tight budget or plan to get a 50-in set that you will watch from 10 feet away.

Even with lousy set-ups in retail stores, you should have no difficulty telling the difference between larger 1080p and 720p sets. When you bring your 1080p set home and feed it good HD signal, you will be saying WOW for quite some time.

That's just what I wanted to hear. Cheers :)

Bigray327,
I hadn’t turned off DNIe before so I didn’t know how much improvement to expect. I could see the edge enhancement but I didn’t realize how much of an improvement it would make to turn it off. Turning off SNI_PROC_DEP had the biggest impact but turning off SNI_PROC_DCE also helped. The picture is outstanding with these items turned off.
Anyone owning one of these sets needs to try this.
Thank you for the excellent recommendation.

I turned off both mentioned but could not see any difference. Can you elaborate more on this improvement? I also turned off SNI_PROC_BWS which indeed fix the dynamic range issue.

The problem is actually video lag on the TV ... so the sound needs to be delayed. The Samsung sets process the incoming video signal to create the 1080p image that is displayed. This processing takes time and that results in the video delay. Design trade-offs on the Samsung sets resulted in the problem ... but, it is very easy to fix (except for gamers). Just delay the audio and all is well.

How do you delay the audio?

Some WMV HD movies have native 1080p resolution. You can purchase them on DVD and play them on your Windows XP computer connected to 1080p set. The picture quality is stunning.

Forthcoming Xbox 360 games will go up to 1080i. The new DVD format from DVD Forum (HD-DVD) will also go up to 1080i. As for the Blu-ray format, it is hard to say at this point what resolutions will be supported. There are some speculations that it may be up to 1080 at 24 fps; however, for broad compatibility Blu-ray will most likely work just fine at 1080i. Then there is Sony PS3. At this point, everything about PS3 is pure hype. Plain and simple. I'll believe it when I see it (assuming they actually ship anything).

Are the 1080p WMV HD movies shot using digicams that actually capture 60 frames progressively? I do not know such digicams exist.

If a 1080p movie is shot using film, then most likely it is captured at 24fps and then converted to 1080p.

Thanks chrislam and sdv5 for your informative replies.


Hmmm. This makes me wonder whether to get the 6168 series, or the 6167 instead for $800 less.

I'm sure that this has been an ongoing debate here about this around here. Has there been any sort of consensus? Are there a significant number of people who see an improvement in picture quality due to 1080p upconversion?

I bought my 6168 not because of the availability of "native" 1080p materials. It was because of its ability to avoid scaling from 1080i to 720p.

Before the purchase I compared the 720p and 1080p Samsungs at Magnolia. 1080p looks better, particularly with sharp edges such as text and graphics. Granted, personally I think the difference is rather subtle, although it may not be so subtle for animation and games.

Steve Martin from Smart Calibration (http://www.smartcalibration.com/) came out today and calibrated my Samsung HL-R5668W.

Did he tell any jokes???

Sorry, couldn't resist.

How do you delay the audio?

I own the Felston, you can read about it here: http://www.felston.com/dd540/index.htm

I can adjust the delay on my receiver(s), but I like being able to just look at this unit and see the delay value for my current input. Plus, since I created a custom layout on my Pronto remote to control it, I can immediately make any adjustments.

Are the 1080p WMV HD movies shot using digicams that actually capture 60 frames progressively? I do not know such digicams exist.

If a 1080p movie is shot using film, then most likely it is captured at 24fps and then converted to 1080p.

Correct, no digicam can capture 1080 at 60 progressive. Sony CineAlta will do 1080 at 24/25/30 progressive or 50/60 interlaced. Consumer oriented Sony FX1 will capture 1440x1080 at 60i. WMV HD movies are typically generated at 720p up to 60 fps and 1080p at 24 fps. For about $12k, you can do it with Sonic DVD Producer HD. Irrespective of what resides on your PC's DVD player or hard disk, the graphics card and decoder will deinterlace (if needed) and upscale to 1920x1080 at 60 Hz.

A good article to sort out HD formats:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/howto/articles/UnderstandingHDFormats.aspx

When you are calibrating using the HDNet or anyother calibration technique, where do you go within the tv to do it? If i had a test pattern where do i go to change the settings to match the colors of the pattern. I just changed the DNIE settings in the SM and it was a huge difference. I did it for my cable box which is on component 1 for now, do i need to do that for my HTPC as well and if so will it make a difference there also?

What causes the Samsung DLP's to have a audio lag while the other RP sets don't have this (such as Sony SXRD)?

Don't be so quick to rule out lag on other 1080p sets. Also, don't believe everything you read on this forum. Go to the store and look at the wall of TVs and look for picture changes. You'll see the Samsung 1080ps slightly behind the others. I also saw the Qualia SXRD slightly behind the others in unison with the Samsung 1080p.

Obviously, if the picture is slightly behind real time, then separate processing of audio via an AV receiver is slightly ahead of the picture. It is no conincidence that many receivers now offers audio lag features.

I turned off both mentioned but could not see any difference. Can you elaborate more on this improvement? I also turned off SNI_PROC_BWS which indeed fix the dynamic range issue.

Bigray327 (post 7139) stated that edge enhancement effects could be permanently disabled by turning off two items in the SM. I find edge enhancement to be the most offensive feature of DNIe.
I suggest displaying a test pattern with black lines on a light gray background, when making the change. Toggle SNI_PROC_DEP and SNI_PROC_DCE on and off. The difference should be very evident. It's similar to going from a high sharpness setting to a zero sharpness setting.

Edit: Changed white to light gray

Bigray327 (post 7139) stated that edge enhancement effects could be permanently disabled by turning off two items in the SM. I find edge enhancement to be the most offensive feature of DNIe.
I suggest displaying a test pattern with black lines on a white background, when making the change. Toggle SNI_PROC_DEP and SNI_PROC_DCE on and off. The difference should be very evident. It's similar to going from a high sharpness setting to a zero sharpness setting.
Cheezmo used a pattern that had a gray background with black lines of varying thicknesses all over the screen. With the edge enhancement values (DEP AND DCE) turned on, you can very clearly see light lines around the black lines. It was not a clear transition from black to gray. With those values turned off, the line of pixels representing the black lines was immediately adjacent to the gray lines with no wacky color transitions taking place.

FWIW, Steve tried taking the sharpness all the way to 0 and while that made some difference, it didn't eliminate the edge enhancement effects completely. Turning off those two values in the service menu did eliminate the problem completely.

You really need to have a test pattern up to see the difference. It makes a huge difference when watching TV, but it may be a little harder to see when you're toggling between ON and OFF.

Hope this helps!

With all of the talk of Service Menu items, some time ago I posted an expanded listing of all the Service Menu items. The following link will take you to that posting and the associated PDF with the service menu items. Hopefully this will make it easier for people to find items they are looking for. ;)

***LINK*** (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6049568#post6049568)

With all of the talk of Service Menu items, some time ago I posted an expanded listing of all the Service Menu items. The following link will take you to that posting and the associated PDF with the service menu items. Hopefully this will make it easier for people to find items they are looking for.
As others have said before, I recommend everyone record before and after values when screwing around in the service menu.

Bulb life varies, but they are spec'd for 8,000 hours.

The bulb last about 6,000-10,000 hours depending on many factors. Heat, the place where the TV is located, like if it is too close to the wall and the heat can't escape through the back, this will shorten the life of the bulb down considerable.
Also another factor is vibration. It is just like a Halogen light bulb. I bought an extra bulb just in case mine goes out a lot quicker then reported. Yeah the bulb was $299.99, but I got it for $50.00 brand new from Samsung in the box and sealed, never opened.
1 year warranty too after I install it. Not starting now. :)

The 941 does not pass blacker-than-blacker ... so, your black levels and detail is not going to be optimal. It also contains a Genesis chip and may be exhibiting macroblocking. Try something like the Sony NS3100ES and I think you will be happy.


But during the instructions for setting the black level the guy says that the dvd's ability to pass BTB is not a factor, and that you should still be able to set it using the test pattern displayed? .....But still can't see the bars....Weird.

If the 68's only take in 1080p via VGA, does this mean that the PS3 1080p output (which I assume will come from component or HDMI) will be useless; and that the Samsung will only display upconverted 720p/1080i?

Microsoft sells a vga adaptor for the xbox 360. I would place money on sony doing the same for the PS3.

With all of the talk of Service Menu items, some time ago I posted an expanded listing of all the Service Menu items. The following link will take you to that posting and the associated PDF with the service menu items. Hopefully this will make it easier for people to find items they are looking for. ;)

***LINK*** (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6049568#post6049568)

Thanks schaffer970 - thats a huge help. Now, in Post #6745 by Nazgul_Darkrider, he mentions that one has to have a programmable remote control.... If one doesn't have that, how does one get into the Service Menu??

Cheers all.

Well Samsung came to install a new digital board to fix my dynamic range problem (the change in the SM didn't work for me) and as luck would have it, the new digital board was damaged. You can't make this s**t up! When he connected the new board, although I got a picture, the picture would flash and then a green screen would appear and then the picture would flash again, then the green screen and so on. Anyway, he's going to try again tomorrow. He did do some tests though and it appears that this is definitely a problem with the digital board. The problem (at least for me) does not happen when I switch from HDMI to any analog input and only happens when I switch from an analog input to a digital input.

But during the instructions for setting the black level the guy says that the dvd's ability to pass BTB is not a factor, and that you should still be able to set it using the test pattern displayed? .....But still can't see the bars....Weird.
If your DVD player is not passing BTB, there is nothing you can do. I'm not sure if you are using Avia or DVE, I have both. I thought they said that on some players you will not be able to see the outermost black bars and adjust accordingly. You can either live with the reduced performance or buy a new player. My advice toss it and get a better player. There is a lenghty 941 thread in the DVD player forum.

The service menu screen is brought up using the remote, with: Set on: Power-Mute-1-8-2-Power; Set off: Mute-1-8-2-Power - wait for 15-20 seconds and the Service Menu screen will come up.

mgreen200,

I still have the box for my 5078. Width 51", height 39", depth 19". The set CANNOT be laid on it's side.

I fit my friend's 5078 in my Honda Element standing up but wasn't able to get my 5678 since the box is much higher. If you know someone with an Element you should be fine.

The service menu screen is brought up using the remote, with: Set on: Power-Mute-1-8-2-Power; Set off: Mute-1-8-2-Power - wait for 15-20 seconds and the Service Menu screen will come up.

So, it is possible to shut off DNEi without having a special remote?

I have a Pronto but it is an old one and I can't find the serial cable since I moved to a new house.

Microsoft sells a vga adaptor for the xbox 360. I would place money on sony doing the same for the PS3.

Interesting, I'm getting a X360 and the VGA adapter.

I wonder how it will look on the VGA input vs component 1080i. I wonder if that would solve the potential lag problems?

Interesting, I'm getting a X360 and the VGA adapter.

I wonder how it will look on the VGA input vs component 1080i. I wonder if that would solve the potential lag problems?
Please let us know IF the VGA adapter works ... I think the TV needs to communicate with the X360 and I'm not sure that will be possible with simple VGA adapters.

So, it is possible to shut off DNEi without having a special remote?
Yeah, you can use the stock remote or any universal programmed to work with your TV.

That will be interesting. I have two Viewsonic CRT monitors with high bandwidth that use five component cables. Both are connected to a component to VGA cable. One is connected to DVI with a VGA adapter and the other is straight VGA. They both work great and they both talk to the computer, which was why I mentioned it. I was thinking at first that composite is one way but it can't be since it is two way on my computer. If they sell their own cable then they must realize the use and compatibility of it. In other words, it should work then.

So, it is possible to shut off DNEi without having a special remote?

I have a Pronto but it is an old one and I can't find the serial cable since I moved to a new house.


Not really. If you use the TV remote, the only way out of the service menu is to turn off the TV. As soon as you turn the TV back on, DNIe is back on. A programmable remote allows you to use the discrete code that gets you in/out of the service menu without turning the set off.

Regarding stands for the 6168w, does anyone know the difference between the basic stand (TR61X2) and the deluxe model (TR61X2SB)?

TR61X2 at Pricegrabber (http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Samsung_TR61X2_Adjustable_DLP_TV_Stand_Metallic,__8872020 )
TR61X2SB at Pricegrabber (http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getoffers.php?keyword=Samsung%20TR61X2SB)

I've read the product descriptions at various stores, and couldn't find any difference.

Also, another favor to ask in the same vein as before: if anyone has one of these stands fitted to the 61", I'd appreciate it if they could measure if to verify it is indeed no wider than 56.9" as listed, because I need to fit it inside a 58" space.

EDIT: Confirmed by bobm.

Not really. If you use the TV remote, the only way out of the service menu is to turn off the TV. As soon as you turn the TV back on, DNIe is back on. A programmable remote allows you to use the discrete code that gets you in/out of the service menu without turning the set off.

Right but according to the new revelations by bigray327 and cheezmo, there are some settings in the SM you can change that results in DNIE (or the edge enhancement portion of DNIE) to be turned off for good. This is my understanding.

I couldn't find a pic for the second model but the B usually means it includes black accent pieces as an option so the stand isn't entirely silver. The two front "legs" can be black to closer match the colors of the set. I was going to go that route with the smaller stand but decided glass and metal was better looking and less expensive and larger in my case. Ikea now has some great looking stands, you have to look and you can mix tops and bottoms with them. I wish I went that way. I don't know if they make one large enough for your size though? I found mine at Mag.

Not to start waves here, but shouldn't credit be given where credit is due?

I do believe these findings where based on information gained in another forum.

Okay, I do want to start waves here :D

Steve Martin from Smart Calibration (http://www.smartcalibration.com/) came out today and calibrated my Samsung HL-R5668W. Nice guy, and very knowledgable. The entire experience was great, and despite being skeptical of the need for calibration in general, I'm now very happy having spent the money. The colors look a lot better, as many have described here before.

We made some very important breakthroughs today that you all should be interested to hear about. I'll do my best to explain what Steve figured out, and let him chime in if I get it wrong. :)

Permanently disabling edge enhancement effects
This IS possible. As we all know from a lot of discussion here, if you go into the service menu and turn DNIe off, it defaults back to on when you turn off the TV. Not very useful, and very destructive to picture quality. Steve took a lot of time and effort and figured out how to turn off the individual edge enhancement effects that the DNIe function performs. In the service menu, turning SNI_PROC_DEP and SNI_PROC_DCE to OFF disabled edge enhancement completely, and the best part is that it sticks! Neither turning off the TV (both quickly and leaving it off for a long time) or entering the service menu affect the state of these two values. Note that there are plenty of other SNI_PROC settings in there, and he experimented with turning them all off, with no visible results in picture quality, colors, blacks, whites, etc. I watched as Steve turned these settings off for all of my inputs and compared it to a test pattern showing fine black lines on a gray background, and indeed, the white edges created by Samsung's awful edge enhancement completely went away. The way I see it, this solves the problem and the online petition can be scrapped. I'm looking for others to confirm this, so please let me know your experiences.

Dynamic range problem fix
The solution mentioned earlier in this thread worked, and stuck after power cycles, etc. SNI_PROC_BWS does in fact make everything happy.

1:1 pixel mapping not really active
Not good news here. There's a service menu setting called 1080I_OVERSCAN that is set to off by default. I don't remember which sub-menu it's under, but it's hidden somewhere unintuitive. When viewing the pixel multi-burst pattern from the Accupel HDG3000 disk, it's obvious from the far right column that the Sammy wasn't mapping pixels 1:1 over any of the inputs (HDMI, component, etc). Then Steve did some experimenting with the 1080I_OVERSCAN setting: he turned it on and then back off, and guess what? 1:1 mapping started working! So, despite being off by default, it doesn't actually work unless you go in there and turn it on and back off. Weird. The bad part is that the setting doesn't stick. Turning off the TV keeps the value set to off, but the test pattern clearly shows that the set no longer exhibits 1:1 pixel mapping. Of course, going into the service menu and turning it off every time you watch TV is an option, but he couldn't find a permanent workaround. Hopefully, Samsung will fix this in a future firmware upgrade.

Service menu discrete code doesn't work
Steve brought a remote into which he had programmed the standard Samsung discrete code to enter the service menu. It was taken from a Pronto hex code found here somewhere and mapped over to an MX-500. It worked for his Sammy 720p set but not my 5668. We also tried it with my remote and it just wouldn't put my set in service mode. He speculated that Samsung changed it for the HLR models. Any insight from you all would be appreciated.

Hope this helps!

Please let us know IF the VGA adapter works ... I think the TV needs to communicate with the X360 and I'm not sure that will be possible with simple VGA adapters.

I second this request from UCSB! I'm interested in the xbox360 and would love to know if the VGA input/adapter will work.

jpe

I went from excited to thrilled to enthralled to deeply, deeply disappointed.

My first 2 weeks with the HLR5678 were really fantastic. The PS2 was quite enjoyable, SD was fine, HD was fantastic, PC Input was beautiful... Then came the rainbows. Now that's all I can see.

Any time I take my eyes off the TV or put them on the TV from other places, anything with high action, any medium action with white in the frame, it seems that now all I can see is separated RGB.

The TV is going back this week. I've already given it a 'benefit of the doubt' week in hopes the problem would go away, or that I could get used to it, but the reality is that it seems I've been ruined for DLP.

So now where do I take my HTPC plans to? I need a 50"+ screen, something that's PC friendly, and in the $5K range. RP LCD, LCoS, Plasma? This is hard for me as I've been watching the Samsung DLP grow up over the last 4 years, and now that I've spent a few weeks with one it turns out I'm one of those 10%ers with overactive optical refresh rates... I simply don't know where to turn.

I read what could only be described as a rumor earlier in this thread, about a Sammy rep that suggested the next gen DLP will be color wheel-less... Should I return my cable box, bide my time, and wait for the latest and greatest, or switch over to one of the several other technologies?

I do believe these findings where based on information gained in another forum.
Which forum? I gave credit where credit was due, to Steve Martin, who figured out the edge enhancement and 1:1 things while sitting on my couch. I didn't see anyone else in my living room.

Raab, I also see the RBE and I've had my 5678 for about a month and I discovered RBE about the same time as you. I only see it if I move my head or eyes fast and there is high contrast or I guess dark areas. I don't see it in bright pictures. I was going to go plasma before I stumbled on the Sammy. Nothing beats plasma but it isn't 1080p, the 50"+ is very expensive and it has radiation like a CRT. If those aren't issues for you I'd go that route. You could get a small 1080p LCD but I can't see any of us downsizing. Maybe get a $2k plasma for now until the next gen. Sammy's are out.

Regarding stands for the 6168w, does anyone know the difference between the basic stand (TR61X2) and the deluxe model (TR61X2SB)?

TR61X2 at Pricegrabber (http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Samsung_TR61X2_Adjustable_DLP_TV_Stand_Metallic,__8872020 )
TR61X2SB at Pricegrabber (http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getoffers.php?keyword=Samsung%20TR61X2SB)

I've read the product descriptions at various stores, and couldn't find any difference.

Also, another favor to ask in the same vein as before: if anyone has one of these stands fitted to the 61", I'd appreciate it if they could measure if to verify it is indeed no wider than 56.9" as listed, because I need to fit it inside a 58" space.

I can confirm the TR61X2 is no wider than the set. The height is a little low for my tastes, however.

Not to start waves here, but shouldn't credit be given where credit is due?

I do believe these findings where based on information gained in another forum.

Okay, I do want to start waves here :D

:eek: ... OK ... I've give credit where credit is due ... thank you bigray327 for taking the time to post this great information in this thread. But, slocko ... if you know of any more tips, please point us in the right direction, we are still trying to figure this stuff out. :)

mgreen200,

I still have the box for my 5078. Width 51", height 39", depth 19". The set CANNOT be laid on it's side.
Thanks alot just what i needed!

Not to start waves here, but shouldn't credit be given where credit is due?

I do believe these findings where based on information gained in another forum.

Okay, I do want to start waves here :D

I in no way claim that I am the first person to discover this information or that the posting my customer made in this thread was the first place it was posted.

I will state for a fact, that I discovered it myself without having read about it anywhere else. I was anticipating that the temporary "disable DNIe" fix would have to be used, but was hell bent on figuring out if there was another way to do it. As bigray is my witness, I figured it out in his living room. If someone did figure it out earlier, that is great, I wish I had read it first, it would have saved me some time.

I couldn't find a pic for the second model but the B usually means it includes black accent pieces as an option so the stand isn't entirely silver. The two front "legs" can be black to closer match the colors of the set.
Thank you, that makes sense now.

And thanks to bobm for verifying the width.

Which forum? I gave credit where credit was due, to Steve Martin, who figured out the edge enhancement and 1:1 things while sitting on my couch. I didn't see anyone else in my living room.

Does this turn off the Dynamic Iris? I know when you turn of DNIe the Dynamic Iris is turned off also which is what you want to be able to calibrate it properly without the Iris mucking things up by making the light levels inconsistent.

I read what could only be described as a rumor earlier in this thread, about a Sammy rep that suggested the next gen DLP will be color wheel-less... Should I return my cable box, bide my time, and wait for the latest and greatest, or switch over to one of the several other technologies?

The Samsung rep only said that there would be at least one model without the color whell. My guess is that it will also be expensive. If you're set on a 1080P set I would wait until next year. Since you see rainbows your only choice will be LCOS/SXRD and next year they should accept 1080P over the HDMI.

I've searched here and at remotecentral. Are the discrete codes known for AIR or CABLE for these samsung 1080p sets? I haven't found anything that works in my Pronto yet. If these codes are not known, is there any work-around? I can't think of any...

Thanks,

Brent

Dynamic range problem fix
The solution mentioned earlier in this thread worked, and stuck after power cycles, etc. SNI_PROC_BWS does in fact make everything happy.


I believe 2 people have said this fix works for them and 2 people have said it does not (myself included). Has anyone else tried it?

I NEED YOUR HELP! I just returned my SXRD Sony after 3 bad sets. My wife and I decided on the Samsung 1080p 61" as a replacement. However, my receiver (Pioneer 1015tx) does not have an audio delay. Am I going to be disappointed and get audio lag? Does anybody out there not have audio lag? Will my XBOX also be delayed? On my SXRD there was no delay that I could notice. Please help me before my new TV arrives on Monday. Thanks.

I posted this question in another thread but perhaps the question is best asked here.

Samsung HL-RXXXXW *TRUE* 1080x1920 or 720x1280 mirrors ?
I've browsed this site and can't seem to figure out if any of the current models in the Samsung HL-RXXXXW lines (whether advertised as 1080p or 720p) are truly DLPs with 1080x1920 (NOT 1080x960) or 720x1280 (NOT 720x640) mirrors. Are there any?

I would think NOT for 1080p, as TI has just released the chips, but why not for 720p? It seems the older models had the full 720x1280 and the new ones have 720x640? Isn't this a step backwards? Sure there are improvements in other areas, but this just doesn't sit right for some reason.

It seems Samsung rushed to market the "1080p" sets to probably compete with LCDs, plasmas, or LCOS systems that have true 1080x1920 pixels, but since TI didn't yet have a 1080x1920 DLP chip, they used 1080x960 and wobulation to say they have 1080p. But why mess with their 720p sets?

Do they look worse? The whole concept doesn't sound good, and I can't judge looking at a Tweeter or what have you, but it can't be better. Plus how would I see an older set? I saw the Samsung 700 720x1280 projector, and that was true 720x1280.

So my questions is, is this a big deal or not? Can I get a true 720x1280 set now? When will we see a true 1080x1920 set?

I think the wobulated 720P picture looks much better than the non-wobulated 720P picture.

I NEED YOUR HELP! I just returned my SXRD Sony after 3 bad sets. My wife and I decided on the Samsung 1080p 61" as a replacement. However, my receiver (Pioneer 1015tx) does not have an audio delay. Am I going to be disappointed and get audio lag? Does anybody out there not have audio lag? Will my XBOX also be delayed? On my SXRD there was no delay that I could notice. Please help me before my new TV arrives on Monday. Thanks.

It depends on your setup. The VGA input does not have any lip sync issues. The remaining inputs seem to since the image is processed by the TV. Whether you're going to be bothered by lip sync is another issue - my wife could detect it on our setup but I couldn't. We now have a Felston :) I don't think anyone has reported trying this but maybe turning off some of the DNIe processing (DEP,DCE, BWS) to see if that reduces lip sync to unnoticeable levels. I'm not a console gamer so I can't help there but PC gamers have no lag with the VGA input.

For the XBOX 360 would it be best to get the vga adapter and run it at 720P or go through component input at 1080i? I assume you can't run 1080i over the vga since it says it needs to be a 60hz on the input resolutions in the mnanual.

I think the wobulated 720P picture looks much better than the non-wobulated 720P picture.

Interesting, I wonder why. I don't doubt it, but I'd be curious to know why. I thought the goal of wobulation was to mask the fact that they didn't have true 1080x1920. And since it was cheaper perhaps, they trickled that down to their 720p sets to make them 720x640 with wobulation.

In this case, with wobulation being not a bad thing, I might as well go with one of their 1080x960 sets, no? If not, why not (besides more money)?

1080x1920p, you might want to go back an look at post #1 in this thread: Samsung 2005 DLP HDTV Discussion --- HLRxxxxW Models (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493443). That post contains pretty much everything that is known about the 2005 Samsung DLP models. Samsung did make some xHD2+ sets during the 2005 year. I am not sure if any of them are still available. Sets with the xHD2+ chips have 1280x720 mirrors. As far as the 1080p sets go, as you note TI has only recently released the full 1080x1920 chips. There is a possibility that we will see one of these chips in a rear project set at CES06 but who knows?

I have a HLR6168 and am extremely pleased with the picture. What it comes down to in many ways, is personal preference. The wobbulated chips provide a more "movie" like picture while the non-wobbulated chips give a more "computer monitor" picture.

UCSB, after writing the last paragraph, it comes to mind that it is almost time for you to set up the CES06 Samsung thread so we can start the discussion of which is best again. :eek:

schaffer970,

Yes, I looked at that thread, which is what started my posting. If wobulation is more film like, then I'm all for it. I just don't have 2 sets to compare back to back, so I had to ask. Without seeing them back to back, my assumption was that wobulation was some trick used to claim that 1080x1920 or 720x1280 resolution. But like you and others say, maybe wobulation is more than that and it actually produces a better picture.

My dilemma now is whether to get a 6167W (720p) or a 6168W (1080p) model. Like I said, price is not an issue. But what do I gain with the 1080p. My sources will be upsampled DVDs that I can upsample to 720p or 1080i (and I would choose the former) and Comcast cable (again 720p or 1080i output).

The million dollar question is this: Will the 1080p set produce a better image from 1080i upsampled DVDs and 1080i Comcast when it converts it to 1080p? Or will 720p upsampled DVDs and 720p Comcast be better as is, in which case they would look no better on the 1080p set than on the 720p one. It has to do with how good a deinterlacer the set is for bothe film AND video.

Interesting, I wonder why. I don't doubt it, but I'd be curious to know why. I thought the goal of wobulation was to mask the fact that they didn't have true 1080x1920. And since it was cheaper perhaps, they trickled that down to their 720p sets to make them 720x640 with wobulation.

In this case, with wobulation being not a bad thing, I might as well go with one of their 1080x960 sets, no? If not, why not (besides more money)?

If you are interested in wobbulation, this thread is a great source of information: Why TI has rotated the mirrors (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=534863&highlight=xhd4). Most of the work done and discussion was before wobbulated 1080p sets were out so the pictures that you see in the thread are complex mathematical computer simulations, but the actual results that we see on sets now out are very close to what was in the thread. There is a lot more to creating an image on the screen that just projecting a colored dot of light. :)

Hello all

Firstly, I would like to thank everyone that's written such positive things in regards to my calibration services and for continuing to recommend me... :)

I've had a number of people ask me how to perform ring-focus on the 1080p displays so here you go.

YOU MUST USE EXTREME CAUTION AS YOU'LL NEED TO STICK YOUR HAND INSIDE THE TV WHILE IT'S TURNED ON TO PERFORM RING-FOCUS! I ASSUME NO RESPONSIBILITY IF DAMAGE OCCURS AS A RESULT OF ANYONE ATTEMPTING THIS SOMEWHAT DANGEROUS ADJUSTMENT!

First, disconnect all cables running into the TV including the power cable. Then remove all the screws holding the back panel. Once you remove the back panel remove the two screws at the bottom left that secure the chassis that holds the digital and analogue boards including the gold ground screw to the left. Next, slide out the chassis slightly just enough to get your hand inside. The ring focus adjustment will be located towards the back and center of the cabinet. If you point a flashlight in that direction you will just barely be able to see a "ring" with ridges. That's what you want to adjust. Next, reconnect the power cord to the TV and make sure that the safety switch just below the DMD module is taped up so that TV can turn it back on.

At this point, you would enter the service menu (mute, 1, 8, 2, power) and put up one of the internal crosshatch patterns. To do this choose the DDP1011(8) option once the service menu appears. Then choose "Test Patterns" and right click until a crosshatch pattern appears (13 clicks). Since the focus is done from the rear, you'll need a mirror at the front of the TV to see your adjustments. Now with your hand inside the TV, adjust the focus so that you attain the most crisp setting at the center of the screen while balancing out the sides.

That's it.

BTW, I think that I may have found a way to get the PLUGE to appear via the component inputs. I'll keep everyone posted in regards to this over the next couple of days.

Eliab

If you are interested in wobbulation, this thread is a great source of information: Most of the work done and discussion was before wobbulated 1080p sets were out so the pictures that you see in the thread are complex mathematical computer simulations, but the actual results that we see on sets now out are very close to what was in the thread. There is a lot more to creating an image on the screen that just projecting a colored dot of light. :)

True. Thanks for the link. It was a good read. My only question now is should I get the 1080p set or the 720p (6168/6178W vs. 6167W)? My Comcast will be set to output 720p and my DVD player (the Oppo) will output 720p as well. It makes no sense to have them output 1080i. So since they'll be outputting 720p, will it look better on the 1080p set or the 720p set? If all the 1080p set will be doing is just upsampling 720p to 1080p then there may be a small improvement, as long as it doesn't mess around with anything. What is your experience? I don't care about it's 3:2 pulldown or deinterlacing capabilities since I'll only be feeding it 720p.

Or I can wait for a 1080p set that will also accept 1080p over its HDMI input, but even then, we won't have many 1080p sources. And who knows if at CES Samsung will come out with a set that accepts 1080p over HDMI. They could have already done it..

True. Thanks for the link. It was a good read. My only question now is should I get the 1080p set or the 720p (6168/6178W vs. 6167W)? My Comcast will be set to output 720p and my DVD player (the Oppo) will output 720p as well. It makes no sense to have them output 1080i. So since they'll be outputting 720p, will it look better on the 1080p set or the 720p set? If all the 1080p set will be doing is just upsampling 720p to 1080p then there may be a small improvement, as long as it doesn't mess around with anything. What is your experience? I don't care about it's 3:2 pulldown or deinterlacing capabilities since I'll only be feeding it 720p.

Or I can wait for a 1080p set that will also accept 1080p over its HDMI input, but even then, we won't have many 1080p sources. And who knows if at CES Samsung will come out with a set that accepts 1080p over HDMI. They could have already done it..


Why doesn't it make sense to output 1080i? The majority of channels broadcast in 1080i. So you would take a 1080i signal down convert it to 720P and then upconvert it again to 1080P. Why would you want to do that? There is a noticeable decrease in resolution if I take a 1080i channel like CBS and have my HD-TiVo output it in 720P to my 1080P set instead of 1080i. The difference is obvious.
And a Samsung rep already announced that next years sets will accept 1080P over the HDMI inputs.

Bigray327 (post 7139) stated that edge enhancement effects could be permanently disabled by turning off two items in the SM. I find edge enhancement to be the most offensive feature of DNIe.
I suggest displaying a test pattern with black lines on a light gray background, when making the change. Toggle SNI_PROC_DEP and SNI_PROC_DCE on and off. The difference should be very evident. It's similar to going from a high sharpness setting to a zero sharpness setting.

Edit: Changed white to light gray
Cheezmo used a pattern that had a gray background with black lines of varying thicknesses all over the screen. With the edge enhancement values (DEP AND DCE) turned on, you can very clearly see light lines around the black lines. It was not a clear transition from black to gray. With those values turned off, the line of pixels representing the black lines was immediately adjacent to the gray lines with no wacky color transitions taking place.

FWIW, Steve tried taking the sharpness all the way to 0 and while that made some difference, it didn't eliminate the edge enhancement effects completely. Turning off those two values in the service menu did eliminate the problem completely.

You really need to have a test pattern up to see the difference. It makes a huge difference when watching TV, but it may be a little harder to see when you're toggling between ON and OFF.

Hope this helps!
Thanks fellows, after further evaluation, the difference is more apparent to me. Although the picture appear less sharp, very noisy, grainy content was greatly improve. Few examples are Band of Brothers DVDs, Alias in HD, and SD channels definitely looked much better.

I've searched here and at remotecentral. Are the discrete codes known for AIR or CABLE for these samsung 1080p sets? I haven't found anything that works in my Pronto yet. If these codes are not known, is there any work-around? I can't think of any...

Thanks,

Brent

Here is some I found.Dont know if they work cause I have Satelite
Device Code: 7 Function: 123 cable
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AC 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0689
Device Code: 7 Function: 27 "Antenna"
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AC 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0689

Why doesn't it make sense to output 1080i? The majority of channels broadcast in 1080i. So you would take a 1080i signal down convert it to 720P and then upconvert it again to 1080P. Why would you want to do that? There is a noticeable decrease in resolution if I take a 1080i channel like CBS and have my HD-TiVo output it in 720P to my 1080P set instead of 1080i. The difference is obvious.
And a Samsung rep already announced that next years sets will accept 1080P over the HDMI inputs.

Why? Personal choice for what I watch. Because most sports are shot and broadcast in 720p not 1080i (exception being CBS and NBC). FOX, ABC, & ESPN are all 720p - sports AND shows. So that's why to me 720p as an output makes most sense from my cable box. For DVDs, of course I'd want to output 720p over 1080i - that's a nobrainer. It's just upsampling, but the DVD player does a better job at deinterlacing video (DCDi) than the Samsung - film probably too. This is course is just my situation, and my viewing habits. If I were to output 1080i it ruins it all. I want from camera to display w/o too much interfering as do you. So then 720p is better in that aspect for what I watch. If I watched CBS and NBC, then I might choose 1080i, but I don't a lot. When you watch NATIVE broadcast 720p material and you are outputing it at 1080i you've lost a lot...

It good to hear that Samsungs of '06 will accept 1080p over HDMI. A 1080p set that can't take a 1080p input is sort of limited and strange in a way... So that's good. But we have to wait and see what 1080p sources we'll have to input. Blu-ray? Downloadable movis in WMV? Video games - PS3? Perhaps.

So you see my dilemma? Since my input will be 100% 720p, will a 1080p set show much if any improvement? It may make the image a bit softer perhaps. I don't know.

It may make sense to get a 720p set now, and wait for a 1080p set with true 1080x1920 that will take 1080p over HDMI. I said money doesn't matter, but why spend $1000 to $1500 more for not much? That is my question. I can, but I don't know that in my case I'd be getting much. See what I mean?

Decisions, decisions :)

Why is ouputting 720P on DVDs a no brainer? The DVD player would scale to 720P then the TV has to scale again to 1080P. The picture looks better IMO upscaling to 1080i so all the tV has to do is deinterlace to 1080P. This is using my Oppo DVD player and my Sony 975. 1080P video clips looks excellent through the vga port from my HTPC.

UCSB, after writing the last paragraph, it comes to mind that it is almost time for you to set up the CES06 Samsung thread so we can start the discussion of which is best again. :eek:

:) ... yes, that will be fun after the holidays.

Why is ouputting 720P on DVDs a no brainer? The DVD player would scale to 720P then the TV has to scale again to 1080P. The picture looks better IMO upscaling to 1080i so all the tV has to do is deinterlace to 1080P. This is using my Oppo DVD player and my Sony 975. 1080P video clips looks excellent through the vga port from my HTPC.

P to P is simple and straightforward. i to P is not so simple. I would think DCDi (in the Oppo) would do a better job deinterlacing video than the Samsung, but I could be wrong. For film, it may be negligible if the Samsung's 3:2 is as good as the Oppo's. I don't know. HTPC is another thing.

If your using the HTPC to output 1080p, why use the Oppo at all? Just up it all to 1080x1920 and put that via the VGA from the PC.

Not as convenient for me to do it that way.

P to P is simple and straightforward. i to P is not so simple. I would think DCDi (in the Oppo) would do a better job deinterlacing video than the Samsung, but I could be wrong. For film, it may be negligible if the Samsung's 3:2 is as good as the Oppo's. I don't know. HTPC is another thing.

If your using the HTPC to output 1080p, why use the Oppo at all? Just up it all to 1080x1920 and put that via the VGA from the PC.

Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems to me that there should be no difference in deinterlacers. The signals are digital and it should be a simple matter to take the second half frame and add it to the first half frame to make a single frame at 1080P. Since the signal is digital, its merely a matter of filling up a memory buffer with a single frame of the picture and projecting it.

One thing I haven't seen in this discussion is the frame rate. Currently there are 3 standards for 1080P: 1080p/24, 1080p/30 and 1080p/60. Not being able to accept 1080P over HDMI means that of the three standards, you cannot get 1080p/60. The othere 2 are just fine. If my above argument stands, the 1080i/60 (half frames) is exaclty equilavalent to 1080p/30.

There is very liitle 1080p/60 material at this time. Also, due to bandwidth limitations, I doubt you'll be seeing any 1080p/60 from the major broadcasters. Blu ray players are due to hit the market but they are not in general availabilty right now. Even if they were, since most recorded material is at a frame rate of 30fps or less, I don't see the advantage of having 1080P/60 over HDMI. And IMO it would be very stupid for the manufacturers of Blu ray players not to include a 1080i/60 output.

There will be blu ray DVDs recorded at 1080p/60, but these will probaly be specialty DVDs shot on special cameras (i.e. Sony makes one that sells for $90,000). For the immediate future 1080p/30 is really the best you can hope for broddcast and recorded material. 1080P/30 or 60 over HDMI is really a big yawn for me. (For now at least) :D

I had the digital board on my set replaced today and while I originally thought it fixed the dynamic range issue, after resetting all of my SM values to the numbers that existed on my prior board, I realized that it didn't. I then played around with some of the SM values and have reached the following conclusions:

1. The dynamic range most likely affects every 1080p set, however, depending on the settings in the SM for Sub Contrast and Sub Brightness (the settings are found under the DNIe submenu), it may be barely noticeable. My first Board had Sub Contrast set at 80 and Sub Brightness at 245 and with those settings it was very noticeable. My replacement Board had Sub Contrast set at 100 and Sub Brightness at 255 and with these settings it was barely noticeable and most likely would not be noticed unless you were really looking for it. That is probably why many people have not reported the issue. Anyway, after trying many combinations I finally set Sub Contrast at 100 and Sub Brightness at 250 and ended up almost completely eliminating the issue.

2. The proposed fix of turning off SNI_PROC_BWS to fix the dynamic range issue will give the appearance of eliminating the issue, but IMO all it is really doing is increase the contrast/brightness level and wash out the picture a bit. As a result it is not fixing the issue, but is just putting the set in a higher contrast/brightness state. Try going to a dark scene and turning it on and off and then try going to a brighter scene and do the same and you'll see what I mean. I happen to like the picture better with it "ON", but some may prefer it better the other way.

BTW - Has anyone done a BTB test with both DVE and THX? It's strange but with DVE, I end up with a brightness setting of 50 and with THX I end up with a brightness setting of 38. Anyone have any thoughts?

Possibly it is the Dynamic Iris giving different results. I think the results will differ depending on whether it goes from light to dark or dark to light. That's why when it is turned off with DNIe off the results are consistent.

I agree with you RMSko.I have these settings(Dnie,DEP.DCE,BWS)set off but when i move thru the picture modes I still see a difference of the dynamic range changing.

hey guys i have a 5688 tv, how do you guys enter the setup menu? do u need a special remote connected to the tv? also..how can i see the firmware revision..? i would really like to get rid of dnie aswell....among other things..to make my tv look better.. thanks!!

Does anyone here know how I could copy my recorded shows from a comcast DVR to a DVD? ie, get the stuff to my PC....thanx

how do u upgrade the firmware on these 1080p tvs?

Question on the xx68 series: Do the TVs have "feet", or bumps on the bottom?

I want to buy a 55" wide TV stand for the 6168 (which is 56.9" across), so the TV will overhang by an each on each side of the stand. I'm guessing this wouldn't be a problem unless the TV has those plastic feet/cushions on the bottom that some TVs have.

Hello new here, I just got a hd box from cable company and now all the channels are Blue and Yellow, everything else is dark and dull. Anyone know how I can fix it? I've tried adjusting the normal color options and nothing works. This is with connecting component hd cables. The colors are great on normal cable wires and games. Is it the component cables causing this issue? If i replace them with like monster cables will it fix the issue? HELP!

Has anyone bought their tv online or used ebay? Don't know if I feel comfortable making such a large purchase online?

Hello new here, I just got a hd box from cable company and now all the channels are Blue and Yellow, everything else is dark and dull. Anyone know how I can fix it? I've tried adjusting the normal color options and nothing works. This is with connecting component hd cables. The colors are great on normal cable wires and games. Is it the component cables causing this issue? If i replace them with like monster cables will it fix the issue? HELP!
Sounds like you have the component cables hooked up wrong. Double check them.

Has anyone bought their tv online or used ebay? Don't know if I feel comfortable making such a large purchase online?
As opposed to what? Buy from the Good Guys and then having them go out of business? :eek:

You will find that most of the early adopters on this forum bought ours on line and most were happy with the transaction. Many are repeat on-line buyers.

This was my third HD set I bought online. TVA made the process painless with my 6168.

Hey guys, I've had my 6768 for around 3 weeks now, and its doing just fine! However, every now and then my tv would make a quick popping or clicking sound as if the tv is shifting one millimeter. Even when the tv is off, it might make a popping sound. The sound is not crackling or anything like that, it has to come from the structure of the tv. This doesn't happen often, but every time I hear it really worries me. And I don't think its TV guide becaues the sound is quite loud. What in the world is going on with the tv??

I hear the same thing. I heard it on my old 1080i set also. I assume it's just the cabinet(or some component) as it warms up or cools down. My 1st 6168 set did the same thing so I assume it is normal.

I hear the same thing. I heard it on my old 1080i set also. I assume it's just the cabinet(or some component) as it warms up or cools down. My 1st 6168 set did the same thing so I assume it is normal.

Yeah, every time I turn it off it makes that sound, so it probably is just the cabinet cooling down. Although I wish it wouldn't make that popping noise... seems as if the tv would just shut off after the pop.

Possibly it is the Dynamic Iris giving different results. I think the results will differ depending on whether it goes from light to dark or dark to light. That's why when it is turned off with DNIe off the results are consistent.

I'm not sure I agree b/c even with turning SNI_PROC_BWS to OFF, I and others still have the problem. In fact, I would expect that everyone would still have the problem, even with this in OFF mode, if the Sub Contrast and Sub Brightness were not set to the correct levels (what that level is probably depends on the set)

BTW - it will go from light to dark or dard to light depending on what the settings are for Sub Contrast and Sub Brightness, i.e., with my new digital board with some settings it went from light to dark and with others it went from dark to light.

Sounds like you have the component cables hooked up wrong. Double check them.

The cables are fine. I checked everything. I even tried reversing cables just in case and then everything goes red and green...dont know why.

Possibly it is the Dynamic Iris giving different results. I think the results will differ depending on whether it goes from light to dark or dark to light. That's why when it is turned off with DNIe off the results are consistent.
I agree, the dynamic iris complicates adjusting the TV. It is almost like there needs to be a custom designed, certified test pattern. Another explanation is that traditional adjustments just are not relevent on these new TV's. Perhaps the calibrations discs need to evolve.

Does anyone here know how I could copy my recorded shows from a comcast DVR to a DVD? ie, get the stuff to my PC....thanx
The most logical approach would be using the 1394, firewire output on the DVR directly into the TV. But, you need to check in another forum ... I know people have done alot of work with firewire capture on a PC.

Has anyone bought their tv online or used ebay? Don't know if I feel comfortable making such a large purchase online?
eBay is not a good idea. Many have bought online, especially from TV Authority and other vendors.

Hello new here, I just got a hd box from cable company and now all the channels are Blue and Yellow, everything else is dark and dull. Anyone know how I can fix it? I've tried adjusting the normal color options and nothing works. This is with connecting component hd cables. The colors are great on normal cable wires and games. Is it the component cables causing this issue? If i replace them with like monster cables will it fix the issue? HELP!

Sounds like one of the cables is loose, make sure that they are plugged in tight (and that the color codes are matched up correctly). If they are OK, then it is either the cable box, your cables or the TV. Try using the cables from your DVD player instead of the HD box. If this works, replace HD box. If it doesn't, replace cables. If that doesn't work, it may be TV problem.

Anyone know if the 6168 has macroblocking issues with the Oppo 971H, Panasonic S97 or Denon 1920?

The macroblocking comes from the dvd players not the 6168.

I was using the previous PDF to review my default settings before my upcoming calibration (and yes, a few are different), and noticed something odd - it appears other folks have settings in the ADV7401(M) menu, but when I drop down to that level every option is greyed out. What's up?

Michael
MWC

I was using the previous PDF to review my default settings before my upcoming calibration (and yes, a few are different), and noticed something odd - it appears other folks have settings in the ADV7401(M) menu, but when I drop down to that level every option is greyed out. What's up?

Michael
MWC
Mine are also all greyed out.

As far as HDMIp goes, I'm betting the first and possibly only uses will be HD DVD, video games and PC. I guess we are still the early adapters, but I feel bad for those who went 720. Keep in mind when the HDTV sales started going through the roof up until HP, that no one had HDMIp and that is a lot of sets. Most sales aren't even 1080. I think manufacturers will need to address this and either not make HDMIp for some time or make it switchable so that it could be 1080i or p. That should be possible. I figure worst case is to put the Sammy in another room. How many people here have only one TV in their home?

2. The proposed fix of turning off SNI_PROC_BWS to fix the dynamic range issue will give the appearance of eliminating the issue, but IMO all it is really doing is increase the contrast/brightness level and wash out the picture a bit. As a result it is not fixing the issue, but is just putting the set in a higher contrast/brightness state. Try going to a dark scene and turning it on and off and then try going to a brighter scene and do the same and you'll see what I mean. I happen to like the picture better with it "ON", but some may prefer it better the other way.
I think I'm going to retract this statement. I've been watching with this SM item turned to OFF and in addition to helping some (but not all) people with the dynamic range issue, I think it does provde much better black level detail with it turned to off. When it was on, there were many scenes where the dark scenes just blended into the background, but when I then turned it to off, I could see a lot of detail in those scenes.

As far as HDMIp goes, I'm betting the first and possibly only uses will be HD DVD, video games and PC. I guess we are still the early adapters, but I feel bad for those who went 720. Keep in mind when the HDTV sales started going through the roof up until HP, that no one had HDMIp and that is a lot of sets. Most sales aren't even 1080. I think manufacturers will need to address this and either not make HDMIp for some time or make it switchable so that it could be 1080i or p. That should be possible. I figure worst case is to put the Sammy in another room. How many people here have only one TV in their home?

HD DVD will only be outputting at 1080i.

hello guys.i finally got the 1080p via vga to work perfectly...anyways..now i got another question..when i run games like call of duty 2 and serious sam 2...i can't set the game to run resolutiones higher then 1028x720..looks like its limited....videos are fine..they all play at 1080p....its just happening with games...any thoughts?

gaston