Try MOVIE mode and drop the contrast and sharpness another 10 points each.

Our TV Guide works fine. Did you go into the setup mode for it? We don't really use it much and I don't really like it coming up when the set turns on. Have not checked to see if that can be disabled.


Yeah, I went through the setup for TV Guide. I think someone else mentioned it took 3 days for it to have data on their TV so I'll just be patient. I live in the boonies so like everything else, perhaps the TV Guide will take longer to be delivered :)

Sounds like the THX standard wants people to sit in the front one-third of the theatre..not for me! :) 8 feet is way too close for my taste to watch a 56 inch TV, but if some people like it, that is great. I would get dizzy watching it that close. It is not the pic quality that is a problem..it is the motion issue.

As I noted above, I'm not trying to tell anybody where to sit! However, sitting at a viewing distance/screen diag ratio of 1.5 (about as close as any human being would like) is still NOT like sitting in the first 1/3 of a movie theater. Let me suggest that you do an experiment I described in some thread some days ago: next time you at a movie theater, take out a ballpoint pen (or something convenient), hold it at arm's length, and measure (roughly) how many 'pen lengths' the width (or diagonal) of the movie screen is. [Don't take too long to do this, otherwise your neighbors will think you've lost it!] Then when you get home, sit in front of your tv at a distance for which the width (or diagonal) of the tv screen is this same number of 'pen lengths' (while of course holding it again at arms length). I guarantee that you will be MUCH closer to the tv than you would have expected.

I have been on the fence for the 6768. I am 13' in viewing distance so that shopuld not be a problem. However, can anyone chime in about the screen and how it handles a bright room. I have a 65" Toshiba now and can't stand the glare anymore but I don't want to get a 6768 and have the same problem. Anyone? Thanks.

Yeah, I went through the setup for TV Guide. I think someone else mentioned it took 3 days for it to have data on their TV so I'll just be patient. I live in the boonies so like everything else, perhaps the TV Guide will take longer to be delivered :)


My tv guide setup is greyed out on the tv so I can't even access it. Any reason why?

I have been on the fence for the 6768. I am 13' in viewing distance so that shopuld not be a problem. However, can anyone chime in about the screen and how it handles a bright room. I have a 65" Toshiba now and can't stand the glare anymore but I don't want to get a 6768 and have the same problem. Anyone? Thanks.

No one can of course be specific about your room, but dlp's--and Samsung's in particular--are among the very best choices for a bright room. Not sure how much more one can say--other than that you try it out.

I have posted the picture of the tv with the white area in the lower middle part of tv (when it is off) on yahoo photo. Does anyone have the same whitish area on the screen? Not visible when tv is on.

http://photos.yahoo.com/gondalguru

Light entering your screen from the room is probably being reflected in the TV. Check your room lighting. Some internal reflection is normal and will vary with room lighting and time of day.

I have been on the fence for the 6768. I am 13' in viewing distance so that shopuld not be a problem. However, can anyone chime in about the screen and how it handles a bright room. I have a 65" Toshiba now and can't stand the glare anymore but I don't want to get a 6768 and have the same problem. Anyone? Thanks.FWIW with the size difference, my 5078 is in a pretty bright room ... windows everywhere and an open floor plan. The screen minimizes most reflections wonderfully, in part due to the screen composition, and in part due to how bright the tv is. Not sure how the brightness of the 67" will compare to that of the 50" ... need to check the specs.

In dark scenes you'll still see the diffused reflection of nearby, bright lamps in the room or nearby windows that aren't shuttered. But most mixed-value content is so bright that you don't see those reflections much. My 78 series has the black lacquer bezel, and there's a world of difference between what's reflected on the screen (very matte) and the bezel (pretty much like a mirror). Hope that helps ...

My 78 series has the black lacquer bezel, and there's a world of difference between what's reflected on the screen (very matte) and the bezel (pretty much like a mirror).

I wonder what it would do to the warranty if one painted the 'black lacquer bezel' with a flat black enamel.

Sounds like the THX standard wants people to sit in the front one-third of the theatre..not for me! :) 8 feet is way too close for my taste to watch a 56 inch TV, but if some people like it, that is great. I would get dizzy watching it that close. It is not the pic quality that is a problem..it is the motion issue.

I sit about 10'6" back from my 6168 and it is on a 31" stand which makes for a 6.3 degree upward viewing angle to the middle of the screen and a 12.9 degree upward viewing angle to the top edge of the screen. This is with the middle of the screen being at 55" high and the eye height being 41".


Side note for those with the SA 8300HD DVR, mine has the Pioneer software in it and has anyone else noticed how UBER hot this thing gets!?! Specially on the top left side...

I cannot access the tv guide nor the channel setup on the tv , 6168. Is it related to the g link while I am using a dvr (SA8300)? I have the glink attached, but I don't know how it works, even after reading the setup.

I have posted the picture of the tv with the white area in the lower middle part of tv (when it is off) on yahoo photo. Does anyone have the same whitish area on the screen? Not visible when tv is on.

http://photos.yahoo.com/gondalguru

can you see the spot at night when the room is dark? And have you tried using a controlled light and pointed in the opposite direction of the TV to see if the white area is caused by something internal or external.

HLR6768W Latest News
This morning I called Samsung corporate offices to find out more about the delayed HLR6768...At the other end of the line was a recorded message from Steve P...I left my number hoping he would call me back...5 Hours later Steve calls me back....first of all I would like to say Steve P is a really super nice guy, and he is very very busy...but he took the time to answer a couple of questions before he had to respond to a very important call...I even heard it come over his intercom...Steve it's important...at that point our conversation ended. Oh well, First I wanted to know why so many delays with the 67"...according to Steve it had something to do with the Light Engine...and he reminded me that this was a new unit that they were putting in production, unlike the 61" it takes more time to design and produce a completely new size...makes sense to me...it will have the same inputs as the 1080P units to date...I was hoping for better news there...Samsung is on course to ship these units starting between 8-5 to 8-9 and should fill 80% of the US quota to date...I think I got that right...and that's it!...I had so many questions I wanted to ask...and then he had to go...and I know if he didn't get that call he would of answered my questions...Oh well lets see if this really happens...Oh before I forget B&M will receive these units first...and I asked him if he would join us on the AVS forum...he decline because he tried this some time way back when and was overwhelm by all of it...he was getting behind with his job...and it didn't help that some forum members were not real pleasant...if you know what I mean...maybe someday he will come back here who knows...But Samsung does read this forum...Sorry I am being rushed by my wife, So that's all for now.

Sorry this should of been put in the Samsung 2005 DLP HDTV Discussion.

Well I have just about given up on doing any adjustments to the HD950 via HDMI to my HLR 5668W. No matter what I try (various VE and THX references) I cannot really do much with contrast nor brightness. I have pretty much decided that MOVIE modes looks as good as it gets, with maybe 10 points knocked off of sharpness, but there is no science there.

I can never really adjust contrast so I don't see all the 8 gradient squares and I never see the B2B shades and at most never get more than 7 shades of gray on the THX bars. I prefer it at 6 visible bars as 7 seems to light. Maybe in a real dark room I could see eight.

On my old Sony S7000 DVD player I can easily see all the levels of gray and the THX shadow. Funny thing is that I did not think that player passed B2B.

Anyway I need a reference to see B2B. If someone can post a few disks/scenes and I have one, I can check it out on both players to see if we are getting all the shadow detail with the HD950.

On another note the THX test images (and maybe some of my PBS digital SD - the logos clipped) seem to have about 1" over overscan at the bottom of the set. Anybody else noticed that? Seems excessive if that is correct.

Well I have just about given up on doing any adjustments to the HD950 via HDMI to my HLR 5668W. No matter what I try (various VE and THX references) I cannot really do much with contrast nor brightness. I have pretty much decided that MOVIE modes looks as good as it gets, with maybe 10 points knocked off of sharpness, but there is no science there.

I can never really adjust contrast so I don't see all the 8 gradient squares and I never see the B2B shades and at most never get more than 7 shades of gray on the THX bars. I prefer it at 6 visible bars as 7 seems to light. Maybe in a real dark room I could see eight.

On my old Sony S7000 DVD player I can easily see all the levels of gray and the THX shadow. Funny thing is that I did not think that player passed B2B.

Anyway I need a reference to see B2B. If someone can post a few disks/scenes and I have one, I can check it out on both players to see if we are getting all the shadow detail with the HD950.

On another note the THX test images (and maybe some of my PBS digital SD - the logos clipped) seem to have about 1" over overscan at the bottom of the set. Anybody else noticed that? Seems excessive if that is correct.

Chris ... what were the settings on the 950 when you did your tests (RGB-Normal, RGB-Expand, ...)? The 950 manual indicates that it should be able to pass BTB. The Samsung 941 was passing BTB at 1080i. Not passing BTB is unexpected.

After running my initial tests at Magnolia, I ordered a 950 on Friday. It isn't even here yet and we have this issue developing.

(more on Oppo/MB with the 1080i hdmi) I don't have the star wars dvd to review the MB problems mentioned specificly in this thread, but I do have the alien DVD where people claim they are evident. Maybe it's just me, but I changed the mode to standard to really look at the picture and I don't even see a hint of it.

As mentioned in the Oppo thread, you can turn real life and css off in the new firmware update and it should be greatly reduced if you do see it. I just can say for sure in movie mode I didn't notice any macroblocking at all. (I still need to find the hours to do the Avia adjustments however).

I have recently purchased a 6768W (scheduled to arrive on 8/13) and am deciding on whether to get a cablecard or cable box. I know that with a cablecard, you cannot get pay-per-view, video on demand, or other interactice services. I also read somewhere that you cannot get 5.1 surround with cablecard. Does anyone know if that is correct?

A second question I have concerns upconverting DVD players. I know there is a separate post for this but wanted to find out from HL-R owners so am asking here if anyone has been able to do an extensive comparison between the OPPO and DVD HD-950?

Thanks.

Well I have just about given up on doing any adjustments to the HD950 via HDMI to my HLR 5668W. No matter what I try (various VE and THX references) I cannot really do much with contrast nor brightness. I have pretty much decided that MOVIE modes looks as good as it gets, with maybe 10 points knocked off of sharpness, but there is no science there.

I can never really adjust contrast so I don't see all the 8 gradient squares and I never see the B2B shades and at most never get more than 7 shades of gray on the THX bars. I prefer it at 6 visible bars as 7 seems to light. Maybe in a real dark room I could see eight.

On my old Sony S7000 DVD player I can easily see all the levels of gray and the THX shadow. Funny thing is that I did not think that player passed B2B.

Anyway I need a reference to see B2B. If someone can post a few disks/scenes and I have one, I can check it out on both players to see if we are getting all the shadow detail with the HD950.

On another note the THX test images (and maybe some of my PBS digital SD - the logos clipped) seem to have about 1" over overscan at the bottom of the set. Anybody else noticed that? Seems excessive if that is correct.

The 950 was spec'd to pass BTB. This testing method and results need to be over in the DVD forum. There is a very active owners thread there.

A second question I have concerns upconverting DVD players. I know there is a separate post for this but wanted to find out from HL-R owners so am asking here if anyone has been able to do an extensive comparison between the OPPO and DVD HD-950?

Thanks.

See DVD forum, especially the 950 thread.

The 950 was spec'd to pass BTB. This testing method and results need to be over in the DVD forum. There is a very active owners thread there.

Disagree....Until all the kinks, bugs, and testing results of different components are posted, they belong here...

Have we even had any new 1080P Owner reviews today?

All I can see are DVD Posts in fact there are far more posts regarding DVD Players than the TV's in this thread - if TVA shipped so many 1080P sets why so few postings on the TV's?

Isn't there a thread on the Oppo, 950 and other DVD Players? I bought a 950 and it does what it's supposed to it upscales not as good as my HD 1080i Channels but it looks good - am I supposed to go out and buy an Oppo to compare - and test and report over and over - can't a thread be created to report on the DVD Players? Oh! That's right one does exist and it's not here.

Isn't there anything to report on the TV's performance other than DVD Players and Sync issues? How many times can we rehash the DVD players and Sync?

Can't all this testing be moved to the DVD Forum? Or at least read the responses that have already been provided and these questions are redundant . . . :eek:

See DVD forum, especially the 950 thread.

Yes, thanks I did check out that forum and thread. There was useful info but not everyone is hooked up to an HL-R so thought I'd get more specific info here for the t.v. I'll be hooking up to.

The two big things I've been hearing (reading) is that there may be MB issues with the OPPO and BTB issues with the Samsung HD-950. Obviously this is a general statement and doesn't take into account all of the variables. For my setup, I'd be looking to hook up HDMI --- HDMI for the Samsung and HDMI --- DVI for the OPPO since it doesn't have an HDMI.

Have we even had any new 1080P Owner reviews today?

All I can see are DVD Posts in fact there are far more posts regarding DVD Players than the TV's in this thread - if TVA shipped so many 1080P sets why so few postings on the TV's?

Isn't there a thread on the Oppo, 950 and other DVD Players? I bought a 950 and it does what it's supposed to it upscales not as good as my HD 1080i Channels but it looks good - am I supposed to go out and buy an Oppo to compare - and test and report over and over - can't a thread be created to report on the DVD Players? Oh! That's right one does exist and it's not here.

Isn't there anything to report on the TV's performance? How many times can we rehash the DVD players? Can't all this testing be moved to the DVD Forum? :eek:

Westa, I'm a new poster but have been reading these threads (and a number of yours) for a decent amount of time and I think you're pretty rude. If you can't be constructive, don't post. Believe it or not, these posts don't revolve around you, so your response of "am I supposed to go out and buy an Oppo to compare.." sounds pretty egocentric. Believe it or not, there are many people who have gone out and purchased multiple pieces of hardware so they can compare and make the best purchase.

As I've stated, I've checked out the DVD forums and threads and the information is all over the place based on reports from people using all different kinds of t.v.'s. I posted here to get more specific info from people with HL-R's.

Watch it FLIPPER I have Westas back, so relax homie, he's just posting his opinion, like everyone here has the right to do.

Unfortunatley WESTA is right about not many 1080p owners posting much. I would have posted but Samsung has yet to release the 5688 models to TVA. I have the Samsung 950 DVD player waiting to be tested.

Can't we all just get along people? geez!

I think it would be hard to beat TVA's Power Buy, from both price and service. You can find tons of info about it in this forum.

True it could be hard to beat, though ABC Warehouse ended up coming in lower. Not sure about there service though.

I went in to look at a 5668 and they didn't have any yet, but were to get 30 in the next couple days (30 6168s already in stock). I told them I was looking to order one through another place. Told them the price (ballpark around TVAs) I must have gotten a really eager salesman, cause he beat the price, so it was actually hundreds less when you look at the cost of tax. Included shipping and setup.

They have a 2/3/5 yr warranty which extends the samsung warranty.

What I am wondering for the past few days was whether there are a few of
those 6168 owners in this thread who could indeed compare or tell whether
they like or dislike their decision of purchasing these monsters. At this moment
what we need is those decent reviews from all 6168 owners. As one of those
who pre-ordered but have not received their 6168’s, I do appreciate your
understanding of our nervousness of over such a big investment. ;)

True it could be hard to beat, though ABC Warehouse ended up coming in lower. Not sure about there service though.

I went in to look at a 5668 and they didn't have any yet, but were to get 30 in the next couple days (30 6168s already in stock). I told them I was looking to order one through another place. Told them the price (ballpark around TVAs) I must have gotten a really eager salesman, cause he beat the price, so it was actually hundreds less when you look at the cost of tax. Included shipping and setup.

They have a 2/3/5 yr warranty which extends the samsung warranty.

If you like the deal, go for it.

This testing method and results need to be over in the DVD forum.

I, for one, would prefer to keep our discussion of DVD player compatibility with xx68/xx78 sets in this thread. This is a huge issue. People are going to end up buying and returning a lot of these players based on my initial testing.

I would like to "confirm" one of the things that I think that we now know about the HL-R series of TVs. That is the HDMI 5.1 audio is NOT decoded and then retransmitted through the TV's optical output. All you get from the HDMI out of the optical port is 2.0.

True or False?

Anyone figure out how to make it work for 5.1?

Chris ... what were the settings on the 950 when you did your tests (RGB-Normal, RGB-Expand, ...)? The 950 manual indicates that it should be able to pass BTB. The Samsung 941 was passing BTB at 1080i. Not passing BTB is unexpected.

After running my initial tests at Magnolia, I ordered a 950 on Friday. It isn't even here yet and we have this issue developing.
I tried everything, but I normally keep it in RGB-Expand.

I, for one, would prefer to keep our discussion of DVD player compatibility with xx68/xx78 sets in this thread. This is a huge issue. People are going to end up buying and returning a lot of these players based on my initial testing.

I agree with you fully. The interest here is specifically on how dvd players do with the xx68's and xx78's, nothing else. It is totally relevant to people who have or are planning to get one of these 1080p sets.

Westa, I'm a new poster but have been reading these threads (and a number of yours) for a decent amount of time and I think you're pretty rude. If you can't be constructive, don't post. Believe it or not, these posts don't revolve around you, so your response of "am I supposed to go out and buy an Oppo to compare.." sounds pretty egocentric. Believe it or not, there are many people who have gone out and purchased multiple pieces of hardware so they can compare and make the best purchase.

As I've stated, I've checked out the DVD forums and threads and the information is all over the place based on reports from people using all different kinds of t.v.'s. I posted here to get more specific info from people with HL-R's.

Flipper,

westa is just impatient - as am I. Sometimes this comes off as being abrasive. You'll get used to him being that way.

P.S. Welcome to the forums. Hopefully you will learn a lot here. I know I have.

I, for one, would prefer to keep our discussion of DVD player compatibility with xx68/xx78 sets in this thread. This is a huge issue. People are going to end up buying and returning a lot of these players based on my initial testing.

UCSB,
Did I miss something? I also have an HD950 and I'd like to find out why it might be a potential candidate to be returned. Unfortunately, I have no TV to test with right now so I have to go off of this forum.

If I end up returning it... which player should I get?

Thanks,
Steve

First off, let me thank this forum for providing me with excellent information that led to a educated purchase. Also, thank you to TV Authority for the great price and customer service. This is my first HD TV and I am by no means an expert. However, I read hundreds of posts on this forum, over the last year, and I seem to know more than most BB and CC employees about the technology. :rolleyes:

I received my 6168 and DVD950 about a week ago and was only able to watch standard definition and DVD's for a few days until my HR10-250 showed up on Saturday. My initial impressions of SD via Direct TV were very good. I expected much worse considering my prior experiences with SD on HD sets and my viewing distance is only about 8'. I purchased the TV for a future house that I am currently building. So, I thought for sure that this close viewing distance would be distracting and lead to a poor viewing experience. This was not the case. My wife and I were very happy with the SD picture overall. We then watched several DVDs via the 950 and were more impressed. Definately a "movie theater" like experence with the lights turned off.

Saturday I got the HR10-250 hooked up along with an OTA feed. Now, I'm really amazed with the picture quality of the TV. Discovery HD is amazing and so are some of the OTA shows like Las Vegas. I never thought I'd be able to sit and watch sunrises for hours. I'm a big fan of the Sopranos, so, getting to watch that in HD was incredible. The HD picture is very sharp and crisp even as close a 6'. If you get much closer you start to be able to make out the diamond shaped pixels.

My only complaints are:

I have both the HR10-250 and DVD950 hooked up via HDMI with optical audio run to a AV reciever. You cannot hear Dolby Digital audio on the TV with either, you have to listen with the reciever. The DVD gives the warning HDMI audio not supported. The TIVO will have sound on all SD stations that don't have DD, but, once you change to a station that does there's nothing.

This can be fixed by changing the DVD to PCM and the TIVO to 2 channel audio but it's a pain to keep changing back and forth. Somebody, let me know if this is normal or what. Why is there an optical audio out if you can't input DD in the first place?

There is really bad lag on Discovery HD but I guess this is common. It's watchable if I only listen to audio through the TV.

I played a little XBOX via component in game mode and didn't notice any lag in Halo 2 or NCAA Football 2005. I could kick field goals pretty consistently even though I hadn't played in 6 months.

Overall, I am pleased with the purchase and very happy with my choice to step up a size from the 56". To anyone on the fence between the 61 and 56 go big and don't look back.

Thanks.

What I am wondering for the past few days was whether there are a few of
those 6168 owners in this thread who could indeed compare or tell whether
they like or dislike their decision of purchasing these monsters. At this moment
what we need is those decent reviews from all 6168 owners. As one of those
who pre-ordered but have not received their 6168’s, I do appreciate your
understanding of our nervousness of over such a big investment. ;)


I have had the 6168 for almost a week now. I am waiting for my dvd 950. I am totally impressed with this tv, as this is my first hdtv. The stv channels are much clearer than on a normal tv, and the hd channels are awesome. No regrets here.

RODWORKS, I like that stand, what kind is it? Where did you get it from? Oh, and the TV looks excellent! My 6168 is supposed to arrive on Wednesday. I ended up getting an all silver stand but I would have preferred black like yours.

After struggling with PQ last night, I finally managed to get SageTV rendering using VMR9 which improved SD noticeably. I have yet to see any true HD other than the 1 weak signal OTA local channel but I did throw Pirates of the Caribbean into my HTPC DVD player. I stepped through the THX video tests on the DVD. The white block test was perfect using default "Movie" picture settings. On the black test, I could see pretty much everything - the drop shadow, all the boxes across the top. I had to lower the brightness to 26 before I could only see 7 boxes but could still see the drop shadow. I opted to restore the brightness to the default setting and just give it a try... blew my socks off! The best picture I have ever seen. :)

It appears on some dealer sites that the pedestal HL-R5688W 1080p set has native 1080p support on it's digital inputs. Anyone else heard about this? Anyone buy one here?

I am still bobbeling back and forth on the fence about these sets. I think they do look nicer than the Mitsubishi which I saw at Ken Kranes a few weeks back. I'd like to better understand what I would get for my money with the 56" pedestal that I won't get with the 61" which nearly $700 less.

Anyone have a better answer than the meatballs working at Frys? "The pedestal one has a really expensive stand and more color wheels"... hahahahah! And that lovely Samsung web site says zip!? It completely neglects to inform about native 1080p support.

Also, anyone know what other 1080p sets are set to be released this year? I've seen the JVC on a few sites. B&H has the Toshiba's listed (70" for $3999!!!).

(:-])

I would like to "confirm" one of the things that I think that we now know about the HL-R series of TVs. That is the HDMI 5.1 audio is NOT decoded and then retransmitted through the TV's optical output. All you get from the HDMI out of the optical port is 2.0.

True or False?

Anyone figure out how to make it work for 5.1?
If you set the DVD (at least HD950) to bitstream you get a nasty message saying HDMI Audio not supported and no sound. If you set the player to PCM then you get two channel sound.

Other HDMI source types may differ but I only have this one.

...

This can be fixed by changing the DVD to PCM and the TIVO to 2 channel audio but it's a pain to keep changing back and forth. Somebody, let me know if this is normal or what. Why is there an optical audio out if you can't input DD in the first place?

Thanks.
So you can listen to OTA and Cablecard DD via the optical to the receiver. Apparently the only DD that the TV sends out. As of yet I have not seen an OTA 5.1 audio yet to test.

Does anyone have an explanation as to why a program is sometimes displayed full screen, cuts to a commercial, and comes back with bars on the either the sides or top/bottom? For example, I started watching Las Vegas; it filled the screen completely. The program went to a commercial and came back with side bars. It then came back after another commercial full screen. Another program, Medium, started out normally and then came back from a commercial with black bars surrounding the picture. Any explanations? My cable service provider is Adelphia. Is this a TV or cable company issue?

Guess what? I have good news and I have bad news.

The good news is that I found a way to make the HD950 pass the THX Optimizer's BTB test with my 5078.

The bad news is that it won't do it in progressive mode, which in turn means that it won't do it over HDMI. The badder news is that I got poor blacks during the film after they had looked great during the test. Can anyone say "lame?" Here's what I did:

1) connected 950 to 5078 via component
2) 950 menu: setup > display setup > video output > selected "HDMI/Component (P-SCAN)"

At this stage the 950 still wouldn't pass BTB and I noticed that the Black Level setting (in picture quality menu) was still forced to "Off" (manual confirms Black Level setting is not available in progressive mode). So ...

3) 950 menu: setup > display setup > video output > selected "Component (I-SCAN)"

Now Black Level is enabled and defaults to "On." The player now passes the BTB test, as I was able to see the last three blocks on the pluge bar and the drop shadow behind the THX logo. Great, I thought ... should look awesome. Turned out that I could drop the 5078's Brightness down to 45 or 46 to appropriately set the system to properly pass the BTB test.

I went through the rest of the tests and then watched some scenes. OMG, now the black levels were something like a 75% grey, nasty as can be. Deep space never looked so ... grey. ;) I had to drag the 5078 Brightness all the way down to like 25-30 to come close to a normal looking black. I am not exaggerating here. The original HDMI setup without passing BTB looked infinitely better ... this was downright unacceptable, even for the lay person. Anyone have an idea of what was going on there?

By the way, once you switch to interlaced mode, you lose the ability to set your b&w/color levels (RGB-Normal, RGB-Expand, etc.). Also note that once you use anything other than HDMI/DVI, you cannot adjust the output resolution (at least not officially ... see the 3rd and 4th pages of the 950 thread for more info). I'll test more tomorrow evening, but that's what I know so far.

Very tired ... must sleep ...

EDIT: Before I forget: I noticed a mild geometry problem (player? tv?) when conducting the circle tests while in Component(I-SCAN) mode. The circle was nice and round, but the bottom border was slightly off the bottom of the screen. Similar to courtjstr's experience, although nowhere near as bad. I need a copy of DVE badly. I don't think I'm trusting what the THX Optimizer is doing. Although I am tired and might have missed something, too. Back at it tomorrow ;)

I would like to "confirm" one of the things that I think that we now know about the HL-R series of TVs. That is the HDMI 5.1 audio is NOT decoded and then retransmitted through the TV's optical output. All you get from the HDMI out of the optical port is 2.0.

True or False?

Anyone figure out how to make it work for 5.1?If you're only talking about trying to pass 5.1 into the tv via HDMI and out of the tv via optical, then your statement appears to be true. I don't believe I've seen a single confirmed example where someone has been able to prove otherwise.

If you can get 5.1 into the tv via another route (say, the internal tuner), then the optical will pass the 5.1 out.

Hello everyone,

I called Samsung last week and spoke to a tier 3 Tech (not customer service) and he said that the 1080P TVs will only output 2 channels from the optical audio out connection. Sorry no Dolby Digital 5.1!

You will have to split the audio and video from the source. Video to the TV, of course, and optical audio to the Home Theater receiver.

The Tech also told me that the video processing card in these 1080P TVs is an ATI card and not Texas Instruments like the previous models. But of course the TVs are still using the Texas Instruments DMD.

Enjoy!

...the 1080P TVs will only output 2 channels from the optical audio out connection. Sorry no Dolby Digital 5.1!Thanks for the info ... that statement seems right when trying to get 5.1 in via HDMI, but I always thought the optical would output 5.1 if the internal tuner received 5.1 ... confused ;) goodnight.

True it could be hard to beat, though ABC Warehouse ended up coming in lower. Not sure about there service though.

I went in to look at a 5668 and they didn't have any yet, but were to get 30 in the next couple days (30 6168s already in stock). I told them I was looking to order one through another place. Told them the price (ballpark around TVAs) I must have gotten a really eager salesman, cause he beat the price, so it was actually hundreds less when you look at the cost of tax. Included shipping and setup.

They have a 2/3/5 yr warranty which extends the samsung warranty.


TVA has offered a great price on the new Samsung 1080P units. However, I was able to beat by the TVA price by well over $1000. I know we are not supposed to discuss price and location here so that is all I will say. I have a copy of my receipt from a national, high end reseller whose name is like that of a flower! If you want more info or want a copy of my receipt for better leverage during your negotiaion please PM me.

Another good thing is that my 5668 has arrived and I am picking it up at the local store tomorrow! I can not wait!

It appears on some dealer sites that the pedestal HL-R5688W 1080p set has native 1080p support on it's digital inputs. Anyone else heard about this? Anyone buy one here?

I am still bobbeling back and forth on the fence about these sets. I think they do look nicer than the Mitsubishi which I saw at Ken Kranes a few weeks back. I'd like to better understand what I would get for my money with the 56" pedestal that I won't get with the 61" which nearly $700 less.

Anyone have a better answer than the meatballs working at Frys? "The pedestal one has a really expensive stand and more color wheels"... hahahahah! And that lovely Samsung web site says zip!? It completely neglects to inform about native 1080p support.

Also, anyone know what other 1080p sets are set to be released this year? I've seen the JVC on a few sites. B&H has the Toshiba's listed (70" for $3999!!!).

(:-])

For more info check POST #1 here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4954868#post4954868

Hello everyone,

I called Samsung last week and spoke to a tier 3 Tech (not customer service) and he said that the 1080P TVs will only output 2 channels from the optical audio out connection. Sorry no Dolby Digital 5.1!

You will have to split the audio and video from the source. Video to the TV, of course, and optical audio to the Home Theater receiver.

The Tech also told me that the video processing card in these 1080P TVs is an ATI card and not Texas Instruments like the previous models. But of course the TVs are still using the Texas Instruments DMD.

Enjoy!

Just want to be sure that I understand this correctly.

The TV has a built in ATSC (High Def) tuner, but does not output 5.1 digital audio ? Or are you saying that its internal speakers will only output digital 2 channel and the optical/coaxial terminals on the back of the set will output 5.1????

Just want to be sure that I understand this correctly.

The TV has a built in ATSC (High Def) tuner, but does not output 5.1 digital audio ? Or are you saying that its internal speakers will only output digital 2 channel and the optical/coaxial terminals on the back of the set will output 5.1????

Seems pretty clear to me he's saying no 5.1 output anywhere. It'd be pretty easy to verify by those currently in possession of one.

Patiently awaiting my 6168 from TVA. I already have a Humax ASTC OTA tuner that outputs 5.1 optical so I don't need the internal tuner. Not to mention the ASTC tuner in my HTPC. I was, however, hoping to reduce my STBs by one and avoid any syncing problems with the ASTC signal. We'll see!

Seems pretty clear to me he's saying no 5.1 output anywhere. It'd be pretty easy to verify by those currently in possession of one.



That's what I thought he was saying. It just seemed a bit odd to not have DD5.1 available through a rear terminal when it has an internal high def tuner. Besides, usually a digital audio connection is just digital, not 2 channel versus 5.

If we could have an actual owner comment on this, it would help clear the confusion(in my pea brain :p ). Also note that not all programming is broadcast over the air in DD5.1. Some of it is actually sent out as two channel digital.

UCSB,
Did I miss something? I also have an HD950 and I'd like to find out why it might be a potential candidate to be returned. Unfortunately, I have no TV to test with right now so I have to go off of this forum.

If I end up returning it... which player should I get?

Thanks,
Steve

We are still testing the 950 ... but, many of us expected the player to be able to pass blacker-than-black configuration tests. The manual would lead you to that expectation. Even if it doesn't pass the BTB test, it may be the most problem free player available and produce great images.

At this point in time, it is to early to make a recommendation. I ordered a 950 on Friday and it should be here in a day or so (after ordering, these BTB issues surfaced or I would have held off).

About all we can do is start a list of players and try to characterize their performance. I had the OPPO, Panasonic S97, Samsung 950, and Denon 2910 on my initial list of players to review. The OPPO is the only one that I haven't seen. What makes this really difficult is unless you can A / B between players it is not obvious which one is working better (unless the problems are severe). After looking at the Denon and Panasonic, I would have expected the OPPO to have macroblocking issues ... but, the initial report did not show this.

Please remember problems may only show up after watching a number of DVD's.

It appears on some dealer sites that the pedestal HL-R5688W 1080p set has native 1080p support on it's digital inputs. Anyone else heard about this? Anyone buy one here?

I am still bobbeling back and forth on the fence about these sets. I think they do look nicer than the Mitsubishi which I saw at Ken Kranes a few weeks back. I'd like to better understand what I would get for my money with the 56" pedestal that I won't get with the 61" which nearly $700 less.

Anyone have a better answer than the meatballs working at Frys? "The pedestal one has a really expensive stand and more color wheels"... hahahahah! And that lovely Samsung web site says zip!? It completely neglects to inform about native 1080p support.

Also, anyone know what other 1080p sets are set to be released this year? I've seen the JVC on a few sites. B&H has the Toshiba's listed (70" for $3999!!!).

(:-])
The spec sheet for the 5688 pedestal specifically states that 1080p is not currently available via HDMI input. Please check this out on the following link. I am hoping that someday there will be a firmware upgrade for HDMI 1080p and hopefully 5.1 but I am not keeping my fingers crossed.

http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050713/HLR5087W_5688W_spec.pdf

Calbert: thanks!

Yes, I was only talking about 5.1 input to the TV via the HDMI.

I have both the HR10-250 and DVD950 hooked up via HDMI with optical audio run to a AV reciever. You cannot hear Dolby Digital audio on the TV with either, you have to listen with the reciever. The DVD gives the warning HDMI audio not supported. The TIVO will have sound on all SD stations that don't have DD, but, once you change to a station that does there's nothing.

This can be fixed by changing the DVD to PCM and the TIVO to 2 channel audio but it's a pain to keep changing back and forth. Somebody, let me know if this is normal or what. Why is there an optical audio out if you can't input DD in the first place


I have almost the exact same setup (a HR10-250, a DVD950 and an HL-R5668W). I also have the DVD and TiVo hooked up via HDMI and I run the optical audio to an Yamaha AV receiver. I'm just not sure why you care whether the TV allows for 5.1. First, you would still need to use your receiver since the TV does not have 5.1 speakers. With your receiver, if it's a station that has dolby digital sound, or if you're watching a DVD, the receiver should automatically output DD. If you're watching a station that does not have DD sound, the receiver should automatically use a 2 channel mode. You shouldn't have to change the DVD to PCM or the TiVo to 2 channel; unless you mean you are doing that when trying to run the sound through your TV, which I would strongly advise against.

I need a copy of DVE badly. I don't think I'm trusting what the THX Optimizer is doing.

I have DVE and I am very disappointed with the program, unless I'm not using it properly (which is VERY possible). The only thing it is somewhat useful for is the brightness test, i.e., I couldn't get a contrast test to work. The DVE I have came out a few years ago though and so maybe there is now a newer version (is there?). It seems that the version I have was meant for the most part for CRT sets. Again, it may just be user error though. Anyone have any thoughts?

Hello everyone,

I called Samsung last week and spoke to a tier 3 Tech (not customer service) and he said that the 1080P TVs will only output 2 channels from the optical audio out connection. Sorry no Dolby Digital 5.1!

You will have to split the audio and video from the source. Video to the TV, of course, and optical audio to the Home Theater receiver.

The Tech also told me that the video processing card in these 1080P TVs is an ATI card and not Texas Instruments like the previous models. But of course the TVs are still using the Texas Instruments DMD.

Enjoy!
Beating a dead horse...? I thought your statement was perfectly clear on initial reading but after reading "clarifying" posts by others, I'm not so sure any more. I read your statement to say that under NO circumstances will the 1080p series pass a DD 5.1 signal over the TV's digital out. Is this correct or was your question to the tech only relevant to the specific case of trying to send a DD 5.1 signal to the set via HDMI?

I, for one, would prefer to keep our discussion of DVD player compatibility with xx68/xx78 sets in this thread. This is a huge issue. People are going to end up buying and returning a lot of these players based on my initial testing.

If the testing is for BTB, then comments, posts belong in the DVD forum. The gang there will help with testing methodology and confirm with other displays too any BTB and MB issues with the 950. If there is compatibility issues with the HLR models, then the DVD forum can help confirm by comparisons with other displays.

Results should definitely be reported back here.

Bottom line, I am saying the DVD forum would benefit from your posts and we find DVD test there, not in a RPTV forum.

Beating a dead horse...? I thought your statement was perfectly clear on initial reading but after reading "clarifying" posts by others, I'm not so sure any more. I read your statement to say that under NO circumstances will the 1080p series pass a DD 5.1 signal over the TV's digital out. Is this correct or was your question to the tech only relevant to the specific case of trying to send a DD 5.1 signal to the set via HDMI?


That's correct!
The Samsung Tech said under NO circumstances will the 1080p series pass a DD 5.1 signal over the TV's digital out.

That's correct!
The Samsung Tech said under NO circumstances will the 1080p series pass a DD 5.1 signal over the TV's digital out.
I do not believe this is correct. I believe that every optical output will support 5.1, at least I have never heard of an optical output that is unable to supoort 5.1. If that is the case with the HLR, they wouldn't have bothered to have an optical out and would've just needed the stereo (RCA) outputs. Also, if this statement is correct, it would appear that what Samsung is saying is that this set will not even allow a 5.1 pass through to the TV via the coax (antenna) in or via the cable card,which seems very strange. I can understand that limitation via HDMI since this is a known limitation of some HDMI outputs/inputs. However, I have never heard of this limitation via a coax input. Has anyone else?

Also - see page 82 of the Manuaul. This clearly allows for a Dolby Digital format. In the setup screen, you select either Dolby Digital or PCM. Dolby Digital is 5.1 so clearly the set is meant to output 5.1 via the optical out. The question is therefore which inputs support 5.1. It appears that HDMI does not. I expect that the antenna input does. I'm not sure about cable card.

If you set the DVD (at least HD950) to bitstream you get a nasty message saying HDMI Audio not supported and no sound. If you set the player to PCM then you get two channel sound.

Other HDMI source types may differ but I only have this one.

Several of these posts are extremely confusing because the situation isn't explained clear enough.

Are you saying that if you take a DVD player and output upconverted DVD at 1080i and 5.1 audio via the HDMI cable to the set, the set rejects the 5.1 audio? I don't care about the passthrough through the sets optical output (because I think it's clear that doesn't work), but most people would want a DVD player or Set-Top Box to output 5.1 via optical or coaxial to their receiver, and then still use HDMI (video/5.1 audio) to send the audio/video to the TV. The TV should know to discard the extra 4 channels and just use Left and Right channels through the TV speakers. It should also should not annoy you with error messages.

Are you saying this doesn't work?

I realize many components have a setting allowing DD or PCM via the optical outputs and I'm hoping that doesn't also apply to the HDMI output.

.

Also - see page 82 of the Manuaul. This clearly allows for a Dolby Digital format. In the setup screen, you select either Dolby Digital or PCM. Dolby Digital is 5.1 so clearly the set is meant to output 5.1 via the optical out. The question is therefore which inputs support 5.1. It appears that HDMI does not. I expect that the antenna input does. I'm not sure about cable card.

No. Dolby Digital does not mean 5.1. Dolby Digital doesn't imply any number of channels but only the encoding. The manual says multi-channel, but 2.0 is multichannel as well as 5.1 and everything in between. You can have a 1.0 dolby digital signal if thats what is put out.

Several of these posts are extremely confusing because the situation isn't explained clear enough.

Are you saying that if you take a DVD player and output upconverted DVD and 5.1 audio via the HDMI cable to the set, the set rejects the 5.1 audio? I don't care about the passthrough through the sets optical output (because I think it's clear that doesn't work), but most people would want a DVD player or Set-Top Box to output 5.1 via optical or coaxial to their receiver, and then still use HDMI (video/5.1 audio) to send the audio/video to the TV. The TV should know to discard the extra 4 channels and just use L/R through the TV speakers?

Are you saying this doesn't work?

I realize many components have a setting allowing DD or PCM via the optical outputs and I'm hoping that doesn't also apply to the HDMI output.

I think the TV does reject this audio, but why do you need the TV's audio at all? I have my TV's internal mute to on, have the DVD player hooked up via HDMI and have an optical cable from the DVD to my A/V Receiver. It works perfectly and I get full 5.1 sound via my reciever and no error message from the TV (maybe to avoid an error message you need to have internal mute set to on?). I do need to add a 130ms delay on the audio though to fix some lip synch issues.

I have almost the exact same setup (a HR10-250, a DVD950 and an HL-R5668W). I also have the DVD and TiVo hooked up via HDMI and I run the optical audio to an Yamaha AV receiver. I'm just not sure why you care whether the TV allows for 5.1. First, you would still need to use your receiver since the TV does not have 5.1 speakers. With your receiver, if it's a station that has dolby digital sound, or if you're watching a DVD, the receiver should automatically output DD. If you're watching a station that does not have DD sound, the receiver should automatically use a 2 channel mode. You shouldn't have to change the DVD to PCM or the TiVo to 2 channel; unless you mean you are doing that when trying to run the sound through your TV, which I would strongly advise against.

Are you advising on trying to use the TV's optical as a passthrough from an HDMI input, or simply using the TVs internal speakers to listen to DVD or Tivo?

I'm really loving this tv. I've gotten my Panasonic S97 dvd player setup how I want it and its wonderful with anamorphic material.

I was watching Roy Orbison on INHD2 last night and it is awesome. I get zero sync problems with HD or standard material. I got problems with dvd material but the S97 has an option to compensate for it, no big deal. I use standard mode for hd and normal tv and movie mode for dvd's and they both look great. I tried movie mode for tv use and I just don't like as much as standard.

I have not heard the fan or color wheel yet. The tv is silent. It takes a few seconds or so to warm up upon initially turning it on which isn't that big of a deal, just different than I'm used to.

I haven't seen any rainbows at all. I'm really loving it.

I think the TV does reject this audio, but why do you need the TV's audio at all? I have my TV's internal mute to on, have the DVD player hooked up via HDMI and have an optical cable from the DVD to my A/V Receiver. It works perfectly and I get full 5.1 sound via my reciever and no error message from the TV (maybe to avoid an error message you need to have internal mute set to on?). I do need to add a 130ms delay on the audio though to fix some lip synch issues.

The guy above made it seem pretty clear he was doing the same thing, but getting an error message. Where the message was being displayed, I do not know.

I would be upset if I had a source component and I select 5.1 DD output to send to the receiver and then TV kept giving me errors because 5.1 was also output on the HDMI.

Are you advising on trying to use the TV's optical as a passthrough from an HDMI input, or simply using the TVs internal speakers to listen to DVD or Tivo?
No - I don't use the TV's optical at all and have the TV's internal mute option set to "on." I just connect video via HDMI and for audio I have the DVD player connected directly to my A/V Receiver via the optical cable. It works perfectly. I don't know why anyone would want to run audio through the TV if they have an A/V Receiver with a number of digital/optical inputs.

I think the TV does reject this audio, but why do you need the TV's audio at all?

To fix the damn lip synch via the echo test!!

The more I read, the more I think these guys have some work to do at Samsung. So many manual workarounds with these sets.

The guy above made it seem pretty clear he was doing the same thing, but getting an error message. Where the message was being displayed, I do not know.

I would be upset if I had a source component and I select 5.1 DD output to send to the receiver and then TV kept giving me errors because 5.1 was also output on the HDMI.
I get no error message. It may be you need to set the TV's internal mute to "On". That way it is likely the TV is not even "taking in" the audio and so it won't reject it and give an error message.

I'll post the HD 950 results in the DVD forum.
I’ve exhausted everything I can think of to get Blacker than Black, using DVE on the HD 950 with my 6168. I can easily achieve B/B with my 5 year old Sony DVD player over component but not with the HD 950. I was able to get the “reverse gray ramps & steps” test pattern to show all but the last two levels of black. The white levels look fine with my final set up.
The DVD Plunge with gray scale test pattern is almost useless with the 950.

I finally ended up with the following:
HD 950
Black level - not available in HDMI at 1080i
Sharpness - level 1
Brightness - level 1
Color Saturation – level 2
Output 1080i
Format RGB normal

HLR6168 HDMI2
Movie mode warm 1
Contrast - 80
Brightness - 65
Sharpness - 0
Color - 45

Using the HD Net test patterns on HDMI1 I ended up with the following:
Movie mode warm1
Contrast - 80
Brightness - 46 (All the numbers (0-10) are readable in the gray scale.)
Sharpness - 0
Color - 55

I do have minor over scan on both the sides and the bottom. The narrator says you should be able to read the #3 lines top and bottom and the 4 lines on the left and right. I am getting the following:
Top – 3
Bottom – 6
Right - 8
Left - 8

I have DVE and I am very disappointed with the program, unless I'm not using it properly (which is VERY possible). The only thing it is somewhat useful for is the brightness test, i.e., I couldn't get a contrast test to work. The DVE I have came out a few years ago though and so maybe there is now a newer version (is there?). It seems that the version I have was meant for the most part for CRT sets. Again, it may just be user error though. Anyone have any thoughts?
Via HDMI I cannot even pass the brightness test :eek:

What we need now is for someone to find us a definative scene about black levels and then to snag 2 dvds for A/B. I could go down and rent two from HV and then run one through my Sony DVPS7000 (which seems to pass B2B and my HD950). I just need the title/scene and what I should look for.

Also - see page 82 of the Manuaul. This clearly allows for a Dolby Digital format. In the setup screen, you select either Dolby Digital or PCM. Dolby Digital is 5.1 so clearly the set is meant to output 5.1 via the optical out. The question is therefore which inputs support 5.1. It appears that HDMI does not. I expect that the antenna input does. I'm not sure about cable card.
Well DD can be anywhere from .1 to 5.1. DD 2.0 or 2.1 is quite common. Anyway I have not seen anything but 2.0 from my TV via the optical to date. :mad:

Via HDMI I cannot even pass the brightness test :eek:



Actually you're right about this! I forgot that even when I tried this test via DVE, it didn't work, i.e., I couldn't see the bars that you were suppose to see even if I turned brightness all the way up. That was on Standard mode, I think it did pass on Movie mode. Isn't it possible that the DVE tests just won't apply to a 1080p set? When DVE was created there were no 1080p sets and it may be we need to wait for a newer version to come out???

Several of these posts are extremely confusing because the situation isn't explained clear enough.

Are you saying that if you take a DVD player and output upconverted DVD at 1080i and 5.1 audio via the HDMI cable to the set, the set rejects the 5.1 audio? I don't care about the passthrough through the sets optical output (because I think it's clear that doesn't work), but most people would want a DVD player or Set-Top Box to output 5.1 via optical or coaxial to their receiver, and then still use HDMI (video/5.1 audio) to send the audio/video to the TV. The TV should know to discard the extra 4 channels and just use Left and Right channels through the TV speakers. It should also should not annoy you with error messages.

Are you saying this doesn't work?

I realize many components have a setting allowing DD or PCM via the optical outputs and I'm hoping that doesn't also apply to the HDMI output.

.
The only connection from my DVD player to the TV is via HDMI. I don't use any additional optical or coax to the TV since that is going to my surround sound processor. When the DVD sends its sound via HDMI to the TV a message appears on the screen stating that HDMI audio is not supported and no sound comes from the TV speakers. This message is from the DVD player I think (its ugly and white - not like the TV messages which are graphical and look like Windows).

If I reconfigure the DVD to send PCM vs Bitstream, then I don't get this message and you can here sounds over the TV speakers from the DVD player.

Well DD can be anywhere from .1 to 5.1. DD 2.0 or 2.1 is quite common. Anyway I have not seen anything but 2.0 from my TV via the optical to date. :mad:
Did you try it with the coax in and the optical out (or have you just been testing HDMI)?

ccouper

.....and you have multiple OTA high def stations so its not a matter of just one or two stations (like I had a year ago).

The guy above made it seem pretty clear he was doing the same thing, but getting an error message. Where the message was being displayed, I do not know.

I would be upset if I had a source component and I select 5.1 DD output to send to the receiver and then TV kept giving me errors because 5.1 was also output on the HDMI.
I think the 'error' message is coming from the DVD player. There is an option on the DVD to suppress on screen messages. You may have that turned off if you do not see this alert. I may consider turning mine off too :)

I see that you are using internal mute which may suppress the binding of sound via hdmi. I will try that later.

To fix the damn lip synch via the echo test!!

The more I read, the more I think these guys have some work to do at Samsung. So many manual workarounds with these sets.

I don't see how its samsungs fault that an external device causes a sync problem. I could see if the internal tuners were causing the problems but its not. Its only external devices (cable boxes, sat boxes, dvd players, etc).

I think you should be getting on direct tv, scientific atlanta, and motorola's case to add a configurable delay into the settings on their boxes. Then contact all dvd makers and have them do the same. This is really the best way to solve this problem.

Scott: it is a little troubling that we are on the 5th or 6th generation and are still seeing these sort of problems.

I will probably need a new HT receiver and have been looking at Denon, Onkyo and Yahama receivers. Seems like they have been having HDMI trouble with their newer units. Perhaps they all rushed, a little too much, to get their new gear into the market????

I have not heard the fan or color wheel yet. The tv is silent. It takes a few seconds or so to warm up upon initially turning it on which isn't that big of a deal, just different than I'm used to.

I haven't seen any rainbows at all. I'm really loving it.Excellent! I've noticed that the thing is absolutely silent as well ... hopefully it's not too silent (read: is the fan working?!?) :D

I've seen rainbows, but as soon as I drop Contrast down to about 45 I rarely see them and it doesn't hurt the PQ much at all. Love the tv.

I don't see how its samsungs fault that an external device causes a sync problem. I could see if the internal tuners were causing the problems but its not. Its only external devices (cable boxes, sat boxes, dvd players, etc).

I think you should be getting on direct tv, scientific atlanta, and motorola's case to add a configurable delay into the settings on their boxes. Then contact all dvd makers and have them do the same. This is really the best way to solve this problem.
The synch issues are from multiple sources. I agree that its not the TV's fault that the content is out of sync, or that another component (STB) is adding sync issues. But the TV itself is adding a little (~100 ms it appears) in processing the picture. On gaming systems you cannot do anything since any delays would show up in the game controller response. I can live with that myself.

However since this is an issue with many setups, I do feel that SS and other TV makers need to include it in their design better. It appears that the AVR vendors are now doing that by supplying the delay feature. The frustration from most folks is that the industry has not really been doing a good job in this area and the should have worked this issue over before the consumers came into the game. One problems is that with these higher res TV's and all the bells and whistles they are tossing in for digital processing, the issues and problems are getting more prevelant.

RODWORKS, I like that stand, what kind is it? Where did you get it from? Oh, and the TV looks excellent! My 6168 is supposed to arrive on Wednesday. I ended up getting an all silver stand but I would have preferred black like yours.

That is the JSP Jazzy Credenza from Sound Advice/Tweeters. It was bought to appease the wife, but I really like it now too. Has lots of room for components and a center channel speaker.

True it could be hard to beat, though ABC Warehouse ended up coming in lower. Not sure about there service though.

I went in to look at a 5668 and they didn't have any yet, but were to get 30 in the next couple days (30 6168s already in stock). I told them I was looking to order one through another place. Told them the price (ballpark around TVAs) I must have gotten a really eager salesman, cause he beat the price, so it was actually hundreds less when you look at the cost of tax. Included shipping and setup.

They have a 2/3/5 yr warranty which extends the samsung warranty.

WOW.
My number is up at tva, and i wanted to make sure it was still the best price.. eveidently its not??
I called Harvey's in abc and they pretty much laughed at me when i told them the power buy price. They pretty much sell everything at retail and said tva is a bunch of sheisters-non authorized yadda yadda, and that my samsung warranty would be useless from them. Never got a chance to tell them that this would be my second dlp set thru tva and that i had warranty work done with the first set thru samsung... anyway. Congrats on the price and the set. Adding in local tax and delivery, u got an amazing deal if u could beat the pb price.

Snoburn, i sent you another pm, if you realy got that price on that set, i am absolutely stunned.
I called my local flower dealer and they quoted me pretty much the retail price.

I am happy for you, but im almost thinking you got in on a price mistake, mayhap they sold u this yrs model at last yrs price, i dunno. Also my local guy didnt have a time frame on when the 56's would be in stock. Sno if you can confirm after getting delivery that you really did get a 5668, i would love some help form ya.

Again congrats on everyone who got these amazing discounts and have the sets.

On a side note on the dvd players, samsung upconverting units always had problems with black levels thru the digital port, dunno if the 950 is another dud from them....

Anywhos, hoping to join this thread as an owner by the end of the week.
K

Just to confirm what messages I'm seeing and where they're coming from:

> DVD-HD950 ---(HDMI)--> 5078
> DVD-HD950 ---(coax)--> AVR
> 5078's Internal Mute set to: ON

With this setup the HD950 is displaying "HDMI Audio Not Supported" in the top left corner of the screen every time I send a new signal from the player (meaning every time I press play after having stopped). This message is being displayed because the player is trying to send an audio signal over HDMI that my 5078 cannot support. I still of course get DD and DTS on my AVR, since I'm feeding it the audio directly via digital coax.

But the message is annoying. All messages from the HD950 can be turned off, which fixes the problem temporarily. But the player DOES NOT REMEMBER your change to that setting after power off. This is a known issue that's been discussed in the DVD (Standard Def) forum under the 950 thread. I believe someone there has spoken with Samsung technical and is awaiting an answer.

I'll continue detailed discussion of the 950 over there now, and will update you guys occasionally with a link to anything that appears pertinent to what we're discussing here. I've just posted a couple of other observations about the 950 in the DVD-HD950 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5971243&&#post5971243) that you might be interested in if you have it or are considering it.

Talk to you later ...

I don't see how its samsungs fault that an external device causes a sync problem. I could see if the internal tuners were causing the problems but its not. Its only external devices (cable boxes, sat boxes, dvd players, etc).

I don't either, except that the Optical/coax SPDIF should loop through the TV from each source. This loop through would either auto sync or possibly have circuitry similar to the Felston to adjust the delay from each source.

To fix the damn lip synch via the echo test!!
IF you do not experience a lip sync issue using just your receiver (i.e., TV speakers muted) then "screw" the echo test! As noted in one of these threads, human sensory perception is such that you can "fail" the echo test but experience no lip sync problem while viewing media in your normal manner (i.e., receiver only). If you experince a lip sync problem under normal conditions then the basic question is whether you have the functionality (receiver, DVD player, external box) to delay the audio signal and resync audio & video, not whether you pass or fail the echo test. If you do have a lip sync problem and do not have the capabilty to re-sync the audio then that is probably the only time you'd want to run the audio directly to the TV and use the TV's internal speakers. Otherwise, leave them off.

(IMHO... The "echo test" is akin to the situation a month or so back where someone provided a test pattern that would always show rainbows even to folks who have never seen rainbows while viewing a dlp set. If you do not experience a problem, why go looking for it?)

Just to confirm what messages I'm seeing and where they're coming from:

> DVD-HD950 ---(HDMI)--> 5078
> DVD-HD950 ---(coax)--> AVR
> 5078's Internal Mute set to: ON

With this setup the HD950 is displaying "HDMI Audio Not Supported" in the top left corner of the screen every time I send a new signal from the player (meaning every time I press play after having stopped). This message is being displayed because the player is trying to send an audio signal over HDMI that my 5078 cannot support. I still of course get DD and DTS on my AVR, since I'm feeding it the audio directly via digital coax.

But the message is annoying. All messages from the HD950 can be turned off, which fixes the problem temporarily. But the player DOES NOT REMEMBER your change to that setting after power off. This is a known issue that's been discussed in the DVD (Standard Def) forum under the 950 thread. I believe someone there has spoken with Samsung technical and is awaiting an answer.

I'll continue detailed discussion of the 950 over there now, and will update you guys occasionally with a link to anything that appears pertinent to what we're discussing here. I've just posted a couple of other observations about the 950 in the DVD-HD950 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5971243&&#post5971243) that you might be interested in if you have it or are considering it.

Talk to you later ...

That's strange. I have mine configured the same way, but I'm not getting the "HDMI Audio Not Supported" error message. The only difference is I have mine connected via optical to the A/V Receiver, which should not make a difference. My set is an HL-R5668W, but I'd be surprised if that would make the difference. Maybe there is something wrong with your set??? Anyone else having this problem?

I see Crutchfield now shows the 78 tabletop series in stock (granted, it says low stock) for the 50" and 56" and 61"....no stock of the 70+"

Would love to see that 50" in action...

That's strange. I have mine configured the same way, but I'm not getting the "HDMI Audio Not Supported" error message. The only difference is I have mine connected via optical to the A/V Receiver, which should not make a difference. My set is an HL-R5668W, but I'd be surprised if that would make the difference. Maybe there is something wrong with your set??? Anyone else having this problem?Is the audio output of your HD950 set to "bitstream" or "pcm?" Mine is set to bistream so that my AVR will receive DD or DTS over the digital coax connection.

I don't see how its samsungs fault that an external device causes a sync problem. I could see if the internal tuners were causing the problems but its not. Its only external devices (cable boxes, sat boxes, dvd players, etc).

I think you should be getting on direct tv, scientific atlanta, and motorola's case to add a configurable delay into the settings on their boxes. Then contact all dvd makers and have them do the same. This is really the best way to solve this problem.

I'm not blaming Samsung. I have a HR10-250. I want to run HDMI to the 6168 and optical to my AV receiver. I also want to be able to hear the sound out of the TV to synch it up with the receiver via the echo test.

Sounds like this can't be done because the HR10-250 will output, for some HDTV channels, 5.1 via HDMI and the 6168 will not be able to play this on it's internal speakers. That is my question. Why does Samsung accept HDMI, but can't accept a 5.1 signal and discard the unwanted channels?

That's strange. I have mine configured the same way, but I'm not getting the "HDMI Audio Not Supported" error message. The only difference is I have mine connected via optical to the A/V Receiver, which should not make a difference. My set is an HL-R5668W, but I'd be surprised if that would make the difference. Maybe there is something wrong with your set??? Anyone else having this problem?

Here's the big question: Are you able to send 5.1 audio via the HDMI and will the TV accept and play the audio using only 2 channels?

Just to confirm what messages I'm seeing and where they're coming from:

> DVD-HD950 ---(HDMI)--> 5078
> DVD-HD950 ---(coax)--> AVR
> 5078's Internal Mute set to: ON

With this setup the HD950 is displaying "HDMI Audio Not Supported" in the top left corner of the screen every time I send a new signal from the player (meaning every time I press play after having stopped). This message is being displayed because the player is trying to send an audio signal over HDMI that my 5078 cannot support. I still of course get DD and DTS on my AVR, since I'm feeding it the audio directly via digital coax.

But the message is annoying. All messages from the HD950 can be turned off, which fixes the problem temporarily. But the player DOES NOT REMEMBER your change to that setting after power off. This is a known issue that's been discussed in the DVD (Standard Def) forum under the 950 thread. I believe someone there has spoken with Samsung technical and is awaiting an answer.

I'll continue detailed discussion of the 950 over there now, and will update you guys occasionally with a link to anything that appears pertinent to what we're discussing here. I've just posted a couple of other observations about the 950 in the DVD-HD950 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5971243&&#post5971243) that you might be interested in if you have it or are considering it.

Talk to you later ...This appears to be the exact same problem I had with my HD941..HDMI Audio Not Supported...Not remembering settings...BTB...and I got this Bright green flash of light during replay 1-3 times per movie...It seems Samsung has no clue how to produce a player without a lot of issues.

Is the audio output of your HD950 set to "bitstream" or "pcm?" Mine is set to bistream so that my AVR will receive DD or DTS over the digital coax connection.
Bitstream.

This appears to be the exact same problem I had with my HD941..HDMI Audio Not Supported...Not remembering settings...BTB...and I got this Bright green flash of light during replay 1-3 times per movie...It seems Samsung has no clue how to produce a player without a lot of issues.Yes, I'm becoming more and more disappointed as these problems crop up. I think I can live without passing BTB for now, since the picture when paired with my 5078 is so nice anyway. But if I can't figure out the locking (see 950 thread) and flashing, the player's going back. I really want to like it, but I'm not going to live with that kind of hassle.

Bitstream.Wow. You have the same setup as mine, with no direct connection between the tv and AVR, and you're not getting that message from the HD950. Heh. Their own devices should at least play well with each other like yours is doing. Looks like I'm calling Samsung.

Just to confirm what messages I'm seeing and where they're coming from:

> DVD-HD950 ---(HDMI)--> 5078
> DVD-HD950 ---(coax)--> AVR
> 5078's Internal Mute set to: ON

With this setup the HD950 is displaying "HDMI Audio Not Supported" in the top left corner of the screen every time I send a new signal from the player (meaning every time I press play after having stopped). This message is being displayed because the player is trying to send an audio signal over HDMI that my 5078 cannot support. I still of course get DD and DTS on my AVR, since I'm feeding it the audio directly via digital coax.

But the message is annoying. All messages from the HD950 can be turned off, which fixes the problem temporarily. But the player DOES NOT REMEMBER your change to that setting after power off. This is a known issue that's been discussed in the DVD (Standard Def) forum under the 950 thread. I believe someone there has spoken with Samsung technical and is awaiting an answer.

I'll continue detailed discussion of the 950 over there now, and will update you guys occasionally with a link to anything that appears pertinent to what we're discussing here. I've just posted a couple of other observations about the 950 in the DVD-HD950 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5971243&&#post5971243) that you might be interested in if you have it or are considering it.

Talk to you later ...
At least one other person selected the internal mute option for that input on the TV and does not seem to get this message. I will try tonight.

Does anyone have an explanation as to why a program is sometimes displayed full screen, cuts to a commercial, and comes back with bars on the either the sides or top/bottom? For example, I started watching Las Vegas; it filled the screen completely. The program went to a commercial and came back with side bars. It then came back after another commercial full screen. Another program, Medium, started out normally and then came back from a commercial with black bars surrounding the picture. Any explanations? My cable service provider is Adelphia. Is this a TV or cable company issue?

Blame your local affiliate.

If the "show" is in HD, but the commercials are in SD, your affiliate has to switch between UP-CONVERTING the SD, and just PASSING-THROUGH the HD.

For local stations that have been doing this a while, they are probably using older equipment which will not switch automatically. This means that a HUMAN has to sit there watching the show, and manually throw a switch every time the show goes to commercial, and again when it comes back from commercial. If the HUMAN is not paying attention.....

That last local affiliate to go HD in Albuquerque, was our NBC station. Since they were last, they have the latest equipment to handle HD broadcasts. Their equipment actually detects when there is HD to PASS-THROUGH, and when it needs to switch to UP-CONVERTING SD material. Even it is not perfect, however. Their equipment probably auto-switches correctly 99% of the time.

Our NBC affiliate only turns on this equipment at the beginning of their nightly broadcast. Sometimes they forget to do that, and the HD material will be sent out as UP-CONVERTED SD instead --- until one of us viewers calls in an reminds them to turn on the HD PASS-THROUGH. Since I record everything, it usually is not me :rolleyes:

John

The synch issues are from multiple sources. I agree that its not the TV's fault that the content is out of sync, or that another component (STB) is adding sync issues. But the TV itself is adding a little (~100 ms it appears) in processing the picture. On gaming systems you cannot do anything since any delays would show up in the game controller response. I can live with that myself.

However since this is an issue with many setups, I do feel that SS and other TV makers need to include it in their design better. It appears that the AVR vendors are now doing that by supplying the delay feature. The frustration from most folks is that the industry has not really been doing a good job in this area and the should have worked this issue over before the consumers came into the game. One problems is that with these higher res TV's and all the bells and whistles they are tossing in for digital processing, the issues and problems are getting more prevelant.


The audio to the A/V reciever is not going through the TV so how can the TV do anything to sync the audio? I guess we can build the A/V receiver into the TV but most audiophiles would not like that either.

In response to the discussion of the "HDMI Audio Not Supported" message, check out what I was told by Samsung here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5971784&&#post5971784).

Actually you're right about this! I forgot that even when I tried this test via DVE, it didn't work, i.e., I couldn't see the bars that you were suppose to see even if I turned brightness all the way up. That was on Standard mode, I think it did pass on Movie mode. Isn't it possible that the DVE tests just won't apply to a 1080p set? When DVE was created there were no 1080p sets and it may be we need to wait for a newer version to come out???

I haven't run any DVE tests because I still haven't received my set, but I own DVE and I have been wondering if some of these test (THX Optimizer included) may not work exactly as intended because of the dynamic iris on these sets.

I haven't run any DVE tests because I still haven't received my set, but I own DVE and I have been wondering if some of these test (THX Optimizer included) may not work exactly as intended because of the dynamic iris on these sets.I'm starting to wonder the same thing ... The picture quality with the HD950 is quite nice over HDMI even though it can't pass the THX black test ... I guess I just wish I knew how much clipping there typically would be without the BTB margin there. In other words, how much am I really not seeing, because what I am seeing looks pretty darn nice.

Here's a quick shot of my 5078 in its new home. It seems quite happy here ;) and fits with about 3/4" clearance above, 1/4" clearance on the sides and tons of space behind for air to circulate (the cabinet's a good 4" from the wall).

ps. Please forgive the nasty wallpaper around the top of the room ... was like that before we moved in, really ... repainting in next spring, probably.

Nice setup calbert. Thanks for the multitude of posts. I have worked through a lot with the banter.

Well-I just received my 6168 yesterday and have three words to describe it- WOW...WOW...WOW. No rainbows, no lip sync problems, great blacks, just one terrific picture- even on SD. I connected the AVR via the audio outputs on the television. The picture is connected via the DVI input. I repeat-no lip sync problems!! DVD is also terrific via my Denon 2910. I have a first generation Toshiba HD, CRT television. So, I am comparing the 6168 to that, and there is no comparison. I am so pleased, and the resolution is so great, that I am having second thoughts at not getting the 6768. My room size is 13'6" x 13'6". Thats the reason I limited the size to the 61". However, after viewing the resolution, I possibly could have handled the 67". I am still using the factory settings. Has anyone used Video Essentials to calibrate the set, and if so what were your settings??? Even better, has anyone had their set professionaly calibrated, and if so what are the settings????

All you folks waiting for your 68's, be patient. It's well worth the wait and you won't be dissapointed.

FAPilot, I have same issue with my PS2, is it an older style model (not the new slimline model?).

I did alot of digging, and basically it boiled down to the fact that, during PS2's life before slimming down, there was like, what, 10 revisions? well...some of those didn't have component out working.
So theres good chance its just the PS2, and nothing can change it short out modding it or buying a new one =/. Sad.

Thanks for the verification. I have come to this realization as well. My video cable actually looks really good and I can live with it until Nov/Dec when the XBox 360 comes out. I have a kitchen pass to buy one! Thanks for responding.

The audio to the A/V reciever is not going through the TV so how can the TV do anything to sync the audio? I guess we can build the A/V receiver into the TV but most audiophiles would not like that either.
The ultimate answer is that the CE manufactures need to get together and create an interface standard that includes a synch signaling capability. Pick HDMI or Firewire or something and then have each device connected on a bus. Then you can send out a sync pulse to let all the related equipment keep the same pace.

The other alternative is to have every device work so quickly they don't have any lag. Right now if the video world that is next to impossible. Look at the latency that the broadcasters have to deal with. (for an example turn on an analog TV to a VHF broadcast and then watch the same channel via digital. Many second lag).

Even on just the display side all this digital processing takes time. The more processing and components in the signal chain, the more time.

In the above manner the slowest component could send out various timing synch signals to let every device keep in pace.

The frustration right now is that the video device (ie TV) seems to be the last element in the food chain. If we could make the receiver the last (by passing everything through the TV first who would perform this synch of content) then it would solve all but the gaming and content synch issues.

For content we need the source to do a better job. For gaming we need all the downstream devices to add 0 lag (good luck on that one).

Wow. You have the same setup as mine, with no direct connection between the tv and AVR, and you're not getting that message from the HD950. Heh. Their own devices should at least play well with each other like yours is doing. Looks like I'm calling Samsung.

The only other difference I forgot to mention is that I'm using Samsung's Anynet feature, which is a great feature. That could definitely help with the locking up, but shouldn't affect anything else, but you never know. You may want to try it.

The ultimate answer is that the CE manufactures need to get together and create an interface standard that includes a synch signaling capability.

I think you would be better off waiting for Gadot than for this. The more practical solution, IMO, is just accept the fact that there will be video-audio sync problems (originating from many disparate reasons) and deal with them through an AVR than has delay capability, or even better through something like the Felston delay box. For a relatively modest price, that will put the issue to rest no matter what the origin of the out-of-sync problem.

I still have problems with my HDMI inputs. Images on both of them suck. It is entirely unwatchable with large red bands. I got a DVD player with HDMI input and tried that too. And it is the same. I also got messages twice - Once, it reported that HDCP has been compromised and the other time about DTCP is not supported or something like that.
I have samsung tech person coming in on thrusday. Anyone has problems with HDMI inputs?
All other inputs work great with no problems.

ekans, I have the same problem. Was told it is the HDMI card and Samsung hasn't yet made enough of these to supply to parts bin. I am exchanging my set for another. Composite works like a champ and I have been using that in the interim.

Well-I just received my 6168 yesterday and have three words to describe it- WOW...WOW...WOW. No rainbows, no lip sync problems, great blacks, just one terrific picture- even on SD. I connected the AVR via the audio outputs on the television. The picture is connected via the DVI input. I repeat-no lip sync problems!! DVD is also terrific via my Denon 2910. I have a first generation Toshiba HD, CRT television. So, I am comparing the 6168 to that, and there is no comparison. I am so pleased, and the resolution is so great, that I am having second thoughts at not getting the 6768. My room size is 13'6" x 13'6". Thats the reason I limited the size to the 61". However, after viewing the resolution, I possibly could have handled the 67". I am still using the factory settings. Has anyone used Video Essentials to calibrate the set, and if so what were your settings??? Even better, has anyone had their set professionaly calibrated, and if so what are the settings????

All you folks waiting for your 68's, be patient. It's well worth the wait and you won't be dissapointed.
For now run it in MOVIE mode until we can get the DVE and other calibration issues settled out. It appears that the Dyn Iris and other goodies seem to be taking over control of the set and we cannot really get a handle on the settings. Its just like the switchover from 1960's era cars to the computer controlled models :)

Here's the big question: Are you able to send 5.1 audio via the HDMI and will the TV accept and play the audio using only 2 channels?

My 6168 will only accept/play 2 channel audio via the HDMI input. If I try to send Dolby Digital it goes silent. My only problem with this is when I don't want to have all the "big" sound, of the reciever, and just want to watch and listen to the TV. So, I have to go into the HR10-250 and change to 2 channel audio and change the DVD950 to PCM. Then, everything works just fine until I want DD again for the reciever.

Do you guys think it's a bandwidth issue with HDMI?

... no lip sync problems ... I connected the AVR via the audio outputs on the television. ...I repeat-no lip sync problems!!
FWIW. You would not expect to have lip sync problems with your setup wherein the AVR gets the audio signal from the TV. If you are running all of your audio signals (e.g., DVD) through the TV before the AVR you'll not be able to produce DD 5.1 sound. If you are using the TV optical out only for TV audio then you should be able to hear DD 5.1 if it is available from your cable company or OTA broadcaster. (Though, the jury is apparently still out on whether the optical out will pass the DD 5.1 signal received via cable card or OTA. I believe it should but there is a post wherein a Samsung tech said it would not.)

I think you would be better off waiting for Gadot than for this. The more practical solution, IMO, is just accept the fact that there will be video-audio sync problems (originating from many disparate reasons) and deal with them through an AVR than has delay capability, or even better through something like the Felston delay box. For a relatively modest price, that will put the issue to rest no matter what the origin of the out-of-sync problem.
Probably best for now, but I would imagine a lot of sync issues will be source dependant (ie complicated images). We have already seen some posters complain its not consistant but this is probably a small group.

We also need to take heed that switching sources quickly seems to screw up the TV and introduces some lag issues so lets make sure we don't add any issues in this manner.

My 6168 will only accept/play 2 channel audio via the HDMI input. If I try to send Dolby Digital it goes silent. My only problem with this is when I don't want to have all the "big" sound, of the reciever, and just want to watch and listen to the TV. So, I have to go into the HR10-250 and change to 2 channel audio and change the DVD950 to PCM. Then, everything works just fine until I want DD again for the reciever.

Do you guys think it's a bandwidth issue with HDMI?

I found this interesting...

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-PgoLmCiWXmt/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=54400&id=detailed_info&i=305HD950

"PCM Down Sampling: You can select a PCM Down Sampling setting of On or Off. When On is selected and you are playing a DVD recorded in 96kHz, the signal is down converted to 48kHz/16-bit before it is passed through the digital outputs. When No is selected and the unit is playing a non-copy-protected DVD recorded in 96kHz, a 96kHz/24-bit signal passes through the digital outputs. If the DVD is copy-protected, the digital signal is automatically down converted."

"Multi-Channel Outputs: The DVD-HD950 offers a 5.1 multi-channel analog output for DVD-Audio and SACD playback."

Does that imply the 5.1 isn't being passed by the HD950 to the TV via the HDMI port? and only will send it out the component and optical ones?

My 6168 will only accept/play 2 channel audio via the HDMI input. If I try to send Dolby Digital it goes silent. My only problem with this is when I don't want to have all the "big" sound, of the reciever, and just want to watch and listen to the TV. So, I have to go into the HR10-250 and change to 2 channel audio and change the DVD950 to PCM. Then, everything works just fine until I want DD again for the reciever.

Do you guys think it's a bandwidth issue with HDMI?
No. HDMI was designed from the initial implementation to carry 8 channel audio. The problem we are facing it that TV makers have not engineered their sets to receive the multi-channel audio, such as DD 5.1.

In reality, designing a TV not to accept and use mutlichannel sound (> 2 channels) makes sense because TVs have traditionally had only 2 speakers. Designing the set not to accept >2 channel sound over HMDI and passing it to an external processor for decoding is short sighted. Unfortunately, just about the entire industry has been myopic on this point.

Probably best for now, but I would imagine a lot of sync issues will be source dependant (ie complicated images). We have already seen some posters complain its not consistant but this is probably a small group.

Yes, there are sync problems that originate with the sources. And that is the point I'm making: if you have the ability to vary the audio delay (via the AVR or a delay box), then you can sync the thing no matter WHAT the origin of the problem is.

No. HDMI was designed from the initial implementation to carry 8 channel audio. The problem we are facing it that TV makers have not engineered their sets to receive the multi-channel audio, such as DD 5.1.

In reality, designing a TV not to accept and use mutlichannel sound (> 2 channels) makes sense because TVs have traditionally had only 2 speakers. Designing the set not to accept >2 channel sound over HMDI and passing it to an external processor for decoding is short sighted. Unfortunately, just about the entire industry has been myopic on this point.

That's fine since few sources output 5 or 8 channel audio at this point ( my
Denon DVD-3910 is one of very few sources that output 5.1/6.1 DD/DTS
over HDMI ).

But what blows me away is what can they be thinking when they put
cable cards in a HD set where DD 5.1 is the default audio for HD broadcast
and not at least send the DD 5.1 bit stream via optical output to a AV Receiver
for decoding?

So all this really means though is you have to rent a set top box for $5
a month from your cable company.

I recieved my 6168 yesterday and there seems to be issues with the HDMI input as others appeat to have. Also, there seems to be extensive pixelation on many channels that is quite aggrivating especially when you have very critical friends who were anxious to see the set fire up as I was. It likes like i will have to call Samsung as well.

Any one able to figure out exactly what the problem is, or is it just the HDMI.

Yes, I am using the optical out. I am connected to dish network and local over the air HD channels via an outside antenna. Hopefully, I am getting DD 5.1(at least over the air), but haven't heard enough to come to any conclusion, although the sound seems pretty good.

No. HDMI was designed from the initial implementation to carry 8 channel audio. The problem we are facing it that TV makers have not engineered their sets to receive the multi-channel audio, such as DD 5.1.


Or, the sending boxes are not sending 5.1 through their implementation of hdmi. It can be either side. Both sides need to handshake and say they support it. Currently there isn't anyway to find out which side isn't doing that or if they both aren't doing it.

Or, the sending boxes are not sending 5.1 through their implementation of hdmi. It can be either side. Both sides need to handshake and say they support it. Currently there isn't anyway to find out which side isn't doing that or if they both aren't doing it.

This is what I am wondering, if anyone has tested the DVD players HD950 or STBs with a HDMI on their AVR that has HDMI they know accepts DD 5.1.

That's fine since few sources output 5 or 8 channel audio at this point ( my
Denon DVD-3910 is one of very few sources that output 5.1/6.1 DD/DTS
over HDMI ).

Tony, When does your Pioneer Elite arrive? Very interested to hear how it performs in comparison to your 3910. Bill

Nice setup calbert. Thanks for the multitude of posts. I have worked through a lot with the banter.Likewise ... I wish I had your carpentry skills, your room looks gorgeous. :)

ekans, I have the same problem. Was told it is the HDMI card and Samsung hasn't yet made enough of these to supply to parts bin. I am exchanging my set for another. Composite works like a champ and I have been using that in the interim.

Well, I will wait until thursday when the tech person takes a look. Maybe then I will have to exchange mine too! Does TVA wait until they receive the set to ship the new one?

The only other difference I forgot to mention is that I'm using Samsung's Anynet feature, which is a great feature. That could definitely help with the locking up, but shouldn't affect anything else, but you never know. You may want to try it.Thanks Rich. I've hooked Anynet up and like it, but it wasn't causing the lockup. The lockup occurs with or without Anynet being setup. I posted in the HD950 thread about it: Samsung told me today that the locking up means the player needs to be serviced (I'll probably just replace with another 950 or another player like the Oppo). Thanks for your input, it's definitely helped. At least I'm not going crazy (thought I was doing something wrong).

Well-I just received my 6168 yesterday and have three words to describe it- WOW...WOW...WOW. No rainbows, no lip sync problems, great blacks, just one terrific picture- even on SD. I connected the AVR via the audio outputs on the television. The picture is connected via the DVI input. I repeat-no lip sync problems!! DVD is also terrific via my Denon 2910. I have a first generation Toshiba HD, CRT television. So, I am comparing the 6168 to that, and there is no comparison. I am so pleased, and the resolution is so great, that I am having second thoughts at not getting the 6768. My room size is 13'6" x 13'6". Thats the reason I limited the size to the 61". However, after viewing the resolution, I possibly could have handled the 67". I am still using the factory settings. Has anyone used Video Essentials to calibrate the set, and if so what were your settings??? Even better, has anyone had their set professionaly calibrated, and if so what are the settings????

All you folks waiting for your 68's, be patient. It's well worth the wait and you won't be dissapointed.

Jerry: Thank you for your input. It sounds great. BTW, what kind of outside antenna do you use? Does it have anything to do with OTA and/or HD?

My 6168 will only accept/play 2 channel audio via the HDMI input. If I try to send Dolby Digital it goes silent. My only problem with this is when I don't want to have all the "big" sound, of the reciever, and just want to watch and listen to the TV. So, I have to go into the HR10-250 and change to 2 channel audio and change the DVD950 to PCM. Then, everything works just fine until I want DD again for the reciever.

Do you guys think it's a bandwidth issue with HDMI?
5.1 digital audio is a rounding error compared to the video side, especially 1080i.

Yes, there are sync problems that originate with the sources. And that is the point I'm making: if you have the ability to vary the audio delay (via the AVR or a delay box), then you can sync the thing no matter WHAT the origin of the problem is.
I sort of did not type my thoughts correctly. What I meant was that various scenes within a source may expericence different lag times based on the complexity of the bitstream. My old Sony DVD has a compression meter in it. Depending on the content at a give time it can vary from a few mbps to over 10 mbps. With 1080i this could be up to 19 mbps and the TV has to deal with the more complex scenes and therefore take more time to process it.

Or, the sending boxes are not sending 5.1 through their implementation of hdmi. It can be either side. Both sides need to handshake and say they support it. Currently there isn't anyway to find out which side isn't doing that or if they both aren't doing it.
Agree. Adding to this uncertainty is the nomenclature problem inherent in the term "multi-channel audio" as used by the audio and video camps. On the audio side, I've seen references to the HDMI implementation not passing "mutli-channel audio" as meaning it'll pass Dolby Digital 5.1 but not the high definition audio formats (SACD and DVD-Audio). Usually, on the video side, multi-channel audio refers to DD 5.1. When you mix the two, confusion is the usual result.

From reading the posts it sounds like a sync issue has been established. I am not very familar with the Falston product. Since the sync issue seems to vary from input to input is the falston product need to be re-calibrated everytime you switch inputs. ex. going from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 do I need to re-calibrate the sync and then re-calibrate when I go back to HDMI?

I sort of did not type my thoughts correctly. What I meant was that various scenes within a source may expericence different lag times based on the complexity of the bitstream. My old Sony DVD has a compression meter in it. Depending on the content at a give time it can vary from a few mbps to over 10 mbps. With 1080i this could be up to 19 mbps and the TV has to deal with the more complex scenes and therefore take more time to process it.

I get the point. If the sync varies with different scenes in one program, this would certainly be hard to deal with.

I recieved my 6168 yesterday and there seems to be issues with the HDMI input as others appeat to have. Also, there seems to be extensive pixelation on many channels that is quite aggrivating especially when you have very critical friends who were anxious to see the set fire up as I was. It likes like i will have to call Samsung as well.

Any one able to figure out exactly what the problem is, or is it just the HDMI.
Give MOVIE mode a try for a quick fix and set sharpness way down too.

From reading the posts it sounds like a sync issue has been established. I am not very familar with the Falston product. Since the sync issue seems to vary from input to input is the falston product need to be re-calibrated everytime you switch inputs. ex. going from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 do I need to re-calibrate the sync and then re-calibrate when I go back to HDMI?

Google 'felston' and you'll get the complete story. But in short, the Felston has a number of memory channels that will remember the delay setting for each source. So if the necessary delay for a given source is always about the same, you never have to adjust anything whenever you change sources. But if a given program from a given source needs a different delay, then of course you would have to dial that in, pretty much like changing the volume, I imagine (but don't know since I don't have one--just planning to get one if it turns out I need it for my new set).

Oppo's upconverting dvd player has an audio delay feature.
Taken from the oppo website, the new firmware version 6/29/2005 "Added five Audio Delay options to suit various receiver systems. Options include 10ms, 20ms, 30ms, 40ms, and 50 ms. "

This is a great added feature to correct sync issues for people like me that don't have this feature built into their old Home Theater Receiver.

Well, I will wait until thursday when the tech person takes a look. Maybe then I will have to exchange mine too! Does TVA wait until they receive the set to ship the new one?

ekans, When I first learned of the problem (on hookup), I called Samsung first and then TVA. I put a new TV in motion knowing the Samsung Tech planned a two day turnaround. When I found out about the lack of parts, I called TVA last night and they told me I had a TV going out today or Wed. I just had to box up my current TV and hand it to the delivery guy when he dropped off the new set. They return it as defective as opposed to the "I don't like the TV" option. Call both and set the ball in motion. The 5668 is the limited model. Seems to be many more 6168s shipping.

Originally posted by millerwill
BTW, it is not longer necessary to enter the Service menu to find out what firmware version you have. You can go to Function Help (pg 84 of the manual), set it to on and then press Info. Or you can get it and other diagnostic info as follows:

Mute-1-8-4-Exit will display screen 1 of Diagnostic Status
Mute-1-8-5-Exit will display screen 2 of Diagnostic Status
Mute-1-8-6-Exit will display screen 3 of Diagnostic Status

I got this directly from Samsung tech support, and it works.

I set Function Help to On and it had no effect whatsoever on the information provided when I press the "info" button. The firmware version is not provided. I also tried the diagnostic info and the first two worked, but the third didn't. Interestingly, once the third option didn't work, the first two stopped working also. Not a big deal as there was nothing that I could understand in those menus anyway (other than the firmware version)!

John,

Thanks for the info. I would never have imagined that someone manually switches the HD broadcast. Wow. I'm blown away.

Thanks again.

Blame your local affiliate.

If the "show" is in HD, but the commercials are in SD, your affiliate has to switch between UP-CONVERTING the SD, and just PASSING-THROUGH the HD.

For local stations that have been doing this a while, they are probably using older equipment which will not switch automatically. This means that a HUMAN has to sit there watching the show, and manually throw a switch every time the show goes to commercial, and again when it comes back from commercial. If the HUMAN is not paying attention.....

That last local affiliate to go HD in Albuquerque, was our NBC station. Since they were last, they have the latest equipment to handle HD broadcasts. Their equipment actually detects when there is HD to PASS-THROUGH, and when it needs to switch to UP-CONVERTING SD material. Even it is not perfect, however. Their equipment probably auto-switches correctly 99% of the time.

Our NBC affiliate only turns on this equipment at the beginning of their nightly broadcast. Sometimes they forget to do that, and the HD material will be sent out as UP-CONVERTED SD instead --- until one of us viewers calls in an reminds them to turn on the HD PASS-THROUGH. Since I record everything, it usually is not me :rolleyes:

John

Tony, When does your Pioneer Elite arrive? Very interested to hear how it performs in comparison to your 3910. Bill

Was suppose to arrive today but has been rescheduled by UPS to
arrive tommorrow. Will report on it tomorrow evening.

Well-I just received my 6168 yesterday and have three words to describe it- WOW...WOW...WOW. No rainbows, no lip sync problems, great blacks, just one terrific picture- even on SD. I connected the AVR via the audio outputs on the television. The picture is connected via the DVI input. I repeat-no lip sync problems!! DVD is also terrific via my Denon 2910. I have a first generation Toshiba HD, CRT television. So, I am comparing the 6168 to that, and there is no comparison. I am so pleased, and the resolution is so great, that I am having second thoughts at not getting the 6768. My room size is 13'6" x 13'6". Thats the reason I limited the size to the 61". However, after viewing the resolution, I possibly could have handled the 67". I am still using the factory settings. Has anyone used Video Essentials to calibrate the set, and if so what were your settings??? Even better, has anyone had their set professionaly calibrated, and if so what are the settings????

All you folks waiting for your 68's, be patient. It's well worth the wait and you won't be dissapointed.

Jerry, I could not have said it better, except perhaps WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW!!!
I watched a HD PPV on Dish last night called Bugs ( orginally IMAX ) in movie
mode. The screen completely disappeared and the contrast and detail literally
blew me away - I'm also missing a pair of socks :-)

I have never seen anything like this before! Frig'in AMAZING!

The 67 in. is tempting but I would like to see the execution of it first. The 6168 in
movie mode is a tad dark so a very dark viewing environment works best and I
suspect the 6768 will be even darker...

The 6168 in movie mode is a tad dark so a very dark viewing environment works best and I
suspect the 6768 will be even darker...

The 67" and 71" have a larger bulb; hopefully that will keep their pictures bright.

The 67" and 71" have a larger bulb; hopefully that will keep their pictures bright.

The cd/m2 is 600 for the 6168 and 550 for the 6768 so it will have less light
output - the question is how much will this be observable.

You can always bump up the brightness setting on movie mode but
I suspect Samsung has chosen the configuration to optimiize shadow detail.

Has anyone counted the reports of "defective" sets that have been received thus far? Are we seeing about 10% or so?

Just curious.

Millerwill,
Are you still going with the Samsung or Mits 70" ? I have finally decided to order the 1080p JVC, after having seen the JVC3-chip front projectors. Also I think it will work better in my bright room, but if one comes out earlier than the other I might be tempted to switch.

Has anyone tried hooking a cable card to the set and outputing DD 5.1? A few posters have mentioned this may not output in 5.1 in earlier posts. This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever--especially if the tv has an optical out.

Has anyone counted the reports of "defective" sets that have been received thus far? Are we seeing about 10% or so?

Just curious.

I would be careful about percentages based on posts since problems
tend to cause to people to post questions whereas those enjoying
their sets are probably having a hard time pulling themselves away
from the picture...

Millerwill,
Are you still going with the Samsung or Mits 70" ? I have finally decided to order the 1080p JVC, after having seen the JVC3-chip front projectors. Also I think it will work better in my bright room, but if one comes out earlier than the other I might be tempted to switch.When is the projected release date on the 1080P JVC.

Millerwill,
Are you still going with the Samsung or Mits 70" ? I have finally decided to order the 1080p JVC, after having seen the JVC3-chip front projectors. Also I think it will work better in my bright room, but if one comes out earlier than the other I might be tempted to switch.

the Samsung's have a Dynamic mode that is almost "too" bright - you might
want to compare this mode to the JVC.

Has anyone counted the reports of "defective" sets that have been received thus far? Are we seeing about 10% or so?

Just curious.
Sounds like 2 out of perhaps 100? Not even close to 10%

My 6168 will only accept/play 2 channel audio via the HDMI input. If I try to send Dolby Digital it goes silent. My only problem with this is when I don't want to have all the "big" sound, of the reciever, and just want to watch and listen to the TV. So, I have to go into the HR10-250 and change to 2 channel audio and change the DVD950 to PCM. Then, everything works just fine until I want DD again for the reciever.

Do you guys think it's a bandwidth issue with HDMI?

My solution to this problem is to use DVI 2 for the HR10-250 and use the associated analog RCA audio inputs for general TV watching (that match to the DVI/HDMI 2 input).

I'm probably like you in that for regular TV watching I don't care for the entire system to be on (especially when the kids are in bed). I put the surround system on for DVDs and special events.

Samsung just looked at the white dot problem on my set. The technician was great. Anyway, he's pretty sure it's the Board and has ordered a new one. He also ordered a light engine just in case. He was delighted that I had some pictures because he can now bring it back to the Samsung home office here in NJ and review the photos (which I burned onto a CD for him).

Also, as for the DVD-HD950, I reported earlier that I didn't have the "audio not supported" message, but I was wrong. I do get that message. If you switch the OSD to off, it switches back to on the next time you turn on the 950 (regardless of whether it is shut off with the remote or on the unit itself) so that is not an option. The only option I can think of is to use an HDMI > DVI adapter and then follow that with a DVI > HDMI adapter, but that's a bit ridiculous and IMO not really a viable option. I'm holding out hope that someone will come up with a fix.

Has anyone tried hooking a cable card to the set and outputing DD 5.1? A few posters have mentioned this may not output in 5.1 in earlier posts. This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever--especially if the tv has an optical out.


It works. I'm connected via CC and output 5.1 with an optical cable.

It works. I'm connected via CC and output 5.1 with an optical cable.

i am glad you verified this - I was having a hard time accepting that a company
would ship a HD TV with cable card and at the very minimum not send
the DD 5.1 bit stream to an AVR.

Samsung just looked at the white dot problem on my set. The technician was great. Anyway, he's pretty sure it's the Board and has ordered a new one. He also ordered a light engine just in case. He was delighted that I had some pictures because he can now bring it back to the Samsung home office here in NJ and review the photos (which I burned onto a CD for him).

Also, as for the DVD-HD950, I reported earlier that I didn't have the "audio not supported" message, but I was wrong. I do get that message. If you switch the OSD to off, it switches back to on the next time you turn on the 950 (regardless of whether it is shut off with the remote or on the unit itself) so that is not an option. The only option I can think of is to use an HDMI > DVI adapter and then follow that with a DVI > HDMI adapter, but that's a bit ridiculous and IMO not really a viable option. I'm holding out hope that someone will come up with a fix.
Internal Mute was not the answer for eliminating the message. I will look at Anynet to see if we can turn off both the OSD and the messages upon powerup

It works. I'm connected via CC and output 5.1 with an optical cable.
All six lights on your receiver are on for DD and not just 2?

We also need to see if this works on OTA. Anybody know if any of the networks broadcast in DD 5.1 and what shows?

All six lights on your receiver are on for DD and not just 2?

We also need to see if this works on OTA. Anybody know if any of the networks broadcast in DD 5.1 and what shows?

All five speakers (not including subwoofer) are shown to be active when connected via optical cable from my 5678w that is receiving its cable input via cablecard.

Bluefrost It works. I'm connected via CC and output 5.1 with an optical cable.
Using the CC is there any delay in changing channels? I don't mean Sync - I mean time delay in switching channels. Last year when they started doing the CC's there were reports of long delays in channel surfing. I have several hundred channels with Comcast and don't want to experience those delays - I presently have an HD STB but would be nice to use the CC since I'm not to interested in VOD.

Thanks! :D

Got my 6168 last friday and am happy with it so far. I have few questions which might have been answered in this forum but since it has grown so large I have hard time finding the answers I need.
1) How do I remove the base from 6168. Will removing base make it unstable??
2)Best possible stand for around 150$$. ( spent just too much on the tv.. and still need to get upconverting DVD player)
3)When tv is turned off I see an oval white area in the lower middle part of the screen. It is around 12 inch high and 5 inch wide. Not visible when the tv is on?? Is it normal or defective??

All answers and recommendations are welcome.
I just opened my stack of manuals etc looking for the Anynet Guide, which I found :)

There is a glossy flier in there for just this white problem :p

Internal Mute was not the answer for eliminating the message. I will look at Anynet to see if we can turn off both the OSD and the messages upon powerup
Anynet won't do it. I have not found any way to turn off the OSD. However, is it really a major problem. Doesn't the message only occur when the DVD starts, i.e., once you start watching the DVD the message disappears. I was just watching a DVD and the message did disappear and I watched for 20 minutes and it never reappeared. If that's the case, I'm really not that bothered.

Thanks for the verification. I have come to this realization as well. My video cable actually looks really good and I can live with it until Nov/Dec when the XBox 360 comes out. I have a kitchen pass to buy one! Thanks for responding.

Speaking of XB360, recently released info suggest that it will launch on Nov 4th (Friday) for $299. This is based on so-called leaked info from Walmart employees from a recent Walmart meeting.

Anynet won't do it. I have not found any way to turn off the OSD. However, is it really a major problem. Doesn't the message only occur when the DVD starts, i.e., once you start watching the DVD the message disappears. I was just watching a DVD and the message did disappear and I watched for 20 minutes and it never reappeared. If that's the case, I'm really not that bothered.
The white OSD display is like someone shining a flashlight in my eyes. ITs going to get some electrical tape put over it unless SS comes up with a fix. The OSM is just an annoyance and I can live with it. Its not as bad as my audio relays kicking in and out. So now I have two confirmations of the audio signal changing :)

The white OSD display is like someone shining a flashlight in my eyes. ITs going to get some electrical tape put over it unless SS comes up with a fix. The OSM is just an annoyance and I can live with it. Its not as bad as my audio relays kicking in and out. So now I have two confirmations of the audio signal changing :)
Am I right that the on screen message only appears for about a second and only when the audio type switches to DD 5.1 and that once the message disappears it will remain off the screen as long as DD 5.1 remains as the audio type?

I've had my 6168 and HD950 for about a week now. I'm using a Dish 942 and have it connected via HDMI... 950 connected via HDMI as well. I'm running an optical cable from the 942 to the Panny XR55 receiver and a digi coax from the 950 to the receiver. I get a little lip syn problem on a few HD channels that comes and goes - not too too severe since its not consistent. The PQ w/ HD is absolutely phenomenal. I really like the 950 PQ as well - just a little less than than the HD programs of course, the surround sound is better from the DVD's though. All cables are new from Blue
Jeans.

I tried DVE but it doesn't seem to work? I'm not passing a lot of the tests and the whole program is just annoying to deal with. How can the PQ look so good and I not be close to passing any tests? I'm now leaving all the TV settings on Standard because there's too many variables to mess with and I get frustrated. I'm thinking of hiring somebody to adjust the settings.

I do get the HDMI Not Supported message from the 950 but I don't mind too much, it flashes once or twice at the beginning of a DVD then doesn't come back.

I tried reading through this thread but its covering too many issues and I'd rather be enjoying my new TV! I did see something about "defective" 6168's? What do I need to look for? Everything seems to be ok but this is the only other set I've owned other than a 27" Sony CRT. What do I need to check about the PQ to make sure everything about my 6168 is ok?

I'd be happy to review further if there are any questions about my experience. I really love this TV, its absolutely amazing and I'm truely overwhelmed. The HSU VTF3 and Ventrilaquist speakers powered by the new Panny XR55 are icing on the cake!

has anyone used the oppo dvd player with the new firmware with the audio delay settings?

is this adequate to adjust for lip sync issues? are there lip sync issues?

is it true that the oppo only upconverts out of the dvi ?

Millerwill,
Are you still going with the Samsung or Mits 70" ? I have finally decided to order the 1080p JVC, after having seen the JVC3-chip front projectors. Also I think it will work better in my bright room, but if one comes out earlier than the other I might be tempted to switch.

Yep, I will be getting either the Sammy 7178 or Mits 73727. It will most likely be the Sammy, but I would like to see the Mits before making a final decision. I imagine they will have very similar PQ's since they have the same TI chip (the present Sammy and Mits sets with the HD2+ chip are very comparable), but since I want to go 'big', the extra 2" of the Mits is attractive. However I think the present 720p Mits sets have had more problems than the Sammy's, so unless I sense that Mitsubishi has worked out all these bugs, I will go with Samsung.

Also, as for the DVD-HD950, I reported earlier that I didn't have the "audio not supported" message, but I was wrong. I do get that message. If you switch the OSD to off, it switches back to on the next time you turn on the 950 (regardless of whether it is shut off with the remote or on the unit itself) so that is not an option. The only option I can think of is to use an HDMI > DVI adapter and then follow that with a DVI > HDMI adapter, but that's a bit ridiculous and IMO not really a viable option. I'm holding out hope that someone will come up with a fix. ;) LMAO, doesn't surprise me that the "use the remote" trick that Samsung gave me doesn't work...seemed like a bizarre workaround. Turns out I can't test the theory anyhow, as it's locking up almost every time I power it up now. Now I just need to decide if I want to replace with another 950 or try a different player.

Glad to hear your service call went well! :)

Saw the HLR5078 again today and I continue to be very impressed, even at 12' viewing distance. Didn't get a chance to hook up a Panny S97 though. Anyway, time to close the sale and get it home.
I also viewed one of the new Mitsubishi 52" and 61" RP-LCDs today and was not very impressed. It had bad SDE and SSE and a rather poor picture (same feed as the HLR5078, HLR xx67s, Sony RP-LCDs, etc.)

These were Mits RP-LCD's right, not their new 1080p dlp's? Would really be nice to get some head-to-head comparison of the Mits and Sammy 1080p dlp's.

;) as it's locking up almost every time I power it up now. Now I just need to decide if I want to replace with another 950 or try a different player.


Did it always lock up or was there a time where it worked fine and then after some time started locking up? I'm just wondering whether this is one of those problems where if you don't experience it from the outset, you don't have to worry about it. If that is the case, it would help you to know that if you end up getting another 950.

After mining the vast knowledge in the message boards, it is time for me to buy.

Two quick questions everyone:

6168 or 6178? Which do you all like? My installer is doing the 78s cheaper than the 68s which leads me to believe people like the floating screen design more (or aren't taking to the glossy bezel - is it distracting?)

Sammy DVD-HD950 or Denon DVD-1910?

Thanks!!

After mining the vast knowledge in the message boards, it is time for me to buy.

Two quick questions everyone:

6168 or 6178? Which do you all like? My installer is doing the 78s cheaper than the 68s which leads me to believe people like the floating screen design more (or aren't taking to the glossy bezel - is it distracting?)

Sammy DVD-HD950 or Denon DVD-1910?

Thanks!!
Personal preference, but I can't stand the shinny bezel on the 78's. Others do.

Bluefrost: is there any specific indication from the receiver that it is actually receiving 5.1 audio from the TV? Many of the modern HT receivers will use signal processing to generate 5.1 from 2.0. And, I'm not sure how many of the cable channels are in 5.1. I guess that is something to find out.

I am very interested in your setup because that is the connection scheme that I may use.

Thanks In Advance!!!

Did it always lock up or was there a time where it worked fine and then after some time started locking up? I'm just wondering whether this is one of those problems where if you don't experience it from the outset, you don't have to worry about it. If that is the case, it would help you to know that if you end up getting another 950.It always locked up. For the first few days I thought it might have just been all of the input switching I was doing that might have confused it, but unplugging and letting it sit before replugging, etc. etc. didn't help matters. I'd say the rate of locking up upon powering it on is ~ 5 in every 6 attempts. Hasn't gotten more or less frequent, so you're probably right ... I would know within the first day or so if a new unit was good or not. That would indicate that yours is good to go ;)

Bluefrost
Using the CC is there any delay in changing channels? I don't mean Sync - I mean time delay in switching channels. Last year when they started doing the CC's there were reports of long delays in channel surfing. I have several hundred channels with Comcast and don't want to experience those delays - I presently have an HD STB but would be nice to use the CC since I'm not to interested in VOD.

Thanks! :D

I'm not experiencing any delay whatsoever. I'm truly satisfied with CC.

Bluefrost: is there any specific indication from the receiver that it is actually receiving 5.1 audio from the TV? Many of the modern HT receivers will use signal processing to generate 5.1 from 2.0. And, I'm not sure how many of the cable channels are in 5.1. I guess that is something to find out.

I am very interested in your setup because that is the connection scheme that I may use.

Thanks In Advance!!!


I have a Yamaha VX-1500 receiver; it distinguishes between digital signals. Thus, when a DTS signal comes in, all six speakers work. However, if there is only Dolby Digital coming in, only two speakers work. Hence, yes, 5.1 is emitted from the TV with cable card.

Well I'm looking at end of August for my 6168, This makes me sad, but I don't mind the wait really, I plan to visit the girlfriend for a week, and then possibley take her up to my grandparents cottage, thus that's 2 weeks gone having fun, swimming, going for boat roads, laying in the hammock with her by the lake.....you know :D :D :D

Anyways.... I've been disgustingly busy with tests and assignments (I have THREE final exams tomorrow :() and haven't been following. Reading back a few pages and checking in Post #3 and what not, haven't seen any game related comments of late. First it's "no problems with the PS2" then "Oh i see a problem here" and on and on.... I wouldn't say I'm a huge gamer per say, but I *do* play them a lot when company comes over.....

The big kicker is the amount of teasing and joking I'll get if my "big expensive god like TV" can't even play a video game properly ;_;

Also UCSB and/or anyone else, did you happen to look into the 3910 any further? It really does seem like a very solid player, and with Denon Link being available now it'd match my 3805 like surround sound to a star wars movie....

Feed me info, for I am hungry!

- D

6168 or 6178? Which do you all like? My installer is doing the 78s cheaper than the 68s which leads me to believe people like the floating screen design more (or aren't taking to the glossy bezel - is it distracting?)I have the 5078 with the glossy bezel. I personally like the overall cabinet of this set better than the xx68's, but I do agree that the bezel can be distracting if you don't reasonably control your lighting. I would have preferred a matte black bezel, but it doesn't bother me. For regular SD and HD viewing, I don't care about the occasional reflection on the bezel. For movies, I simply adjust the lighting in the room a bit and it's fine for the most part. If you're somewhat of a purist and want ZERO distractions, though, the 68's the way to go.

After mining the vast knowledge in the message boards, it is time for me to buy.

Two quick questions everyone:

6168 or 6178? Which do you all like? My installer is doing the 78s cheaper than the 68s which leads me to believe people like the floating screen design more (or aren't taking to the glossy bezel - is it distracting?)

Sammy DVD-HD950 or Denon DVD-1910?

Thanks!!

I like the 68's floating design myself....and I don't really like the glossy bezel of the 78 series either.

As for DVD player, I personally would not choose a DVD player using the Faroudja chip due to a good possibility of macroblocking showing up.

Last week I mentioned that I couldn't get a signal with my Oppo DVD connected via HDMI/DVI. Apparently, the HDMI connection (or the cable) is flakey. With some jiggling the picture comes through on the DVI connection on the TV. However, when I connect the DVD player to the HDMI 1 input, I get either no picture, or with a little jiggling, a green picture. At this point, do you guys think it's the TV or the cable?

As for DVD player, I personally would not choose a DVD player using the Faroudja chip due to a good possibility of macroblocking showing up.

The dilemma is that the Faroudja chip provides a sharper picture than any of the other chips. You just need to find a player that has minimal MB'ing with your display.

I had a 5677 in the house for 1 month until the wife decided it was too big for the room. (Unfortunately I had to agree). After a lot of reseach, I mean a lot, I was ready to go with the 5067. That was until I saw the 5078 that had just been put on display.

I had read the specs and was tempted by the super high contrast ratio.

The 5677 had a great picture. No cable box, just Comcast pluged directly into the set.

The 5078 was delivered today while I was at work so I did not have a chance to compare side by side.

Playing with the 78 for an hour leaves me disappointed.

1. The 5677 had GREAT sound and a really good clear picture on non-HD digital cable and a SUPER picture on HD.

2. The 5078 has a much more hollow sound. Not as full.

3. Most important, the picture is just nowhere as clean on non-HD channels and just not as crisp on HD. (sorry for the technical terms). It just seems to be tad blurry, not soft like the 5067.

4. The remote control access to favorites is really poor. The 5677 let you access just the favorites with two key strokes. The 78 seems to cycle to that with repeated hits to the channel list button, but then if you hit any other key you modify the channel list, loose favorites etc..

I really thinking about going back to the 5067. The thought of an extra grand and a poorer picture has me sick!

Any advice is appreciated.

I had a 5677 in the house for 1 month until the wife decided it was too big for the room. (Unfortunately I had to agree). After a lot of reseach, I mean a lot, I was ready to go with the 5067. That was until I saw the 5078 that had just been put on display.

I had read the specs and was tempted by the super high contrast ratio.

The 5677 had a great picture. No cable box, just Comcast pluged directly into the set.

The 5078 was delivered today while I was at work so I did not have a chance to compare side by side.

Playing with the 78 for an hour leaves me disappointed.

1. The 5677 had GREAT sound and a really good clear picture on non-HD digital cable and a SUPER picture on HD.

2. The 5078 has a much more hollow sound. Not as full.

3. Most important, the picture is just nowhere as clean on non-HD channels and just not as crisp on HD. (sorry for the technical terms). It just seems to be tad blurry, not soft like the 5067.

4. The remote control access to favorites is really poor. The 5677 let you access just the favorites with two key strokes. The 78 seems to cycle to that with repeated hits to the channel list button, but then if you hit any other key you modify the channel list, loose favorites etc..

I really thinking about going back to the 5067. The thought of an extra grand and a poorer picture has me sick!

Any advice is appreciated.

I haven't listened to the sound on the 68/78 so can't comment.

Personally I have never seen a better picture on a RP in my life. It is
detailed, crisp, vivid - simply incredible. Certainly nothing but the
Qualia 06 even comes close, in my opinon.

BUT, if are using the default movie setting for movies and the default
dynamic settings for sports, Discovery HD, etc. and you are convinced
your sources are set up properly you prefer the picture on your 5067.

Save yourself a $1000 and send that puppy back...

took the plunge with a 6168W, now the waiting game.

think i might get the oppo dvd player. i like the idea of divx and xvid movies and if i see too much macroblocking back it goes. i hope the audio delay is sufficient as it is only 50ms and i have no audio delay on my avr.

i am running a dish dvr 942. if i notice too much lip sync on certain channels might just switch from dvr optical to avr to tv's otpical to avr 6168w. may lose surround, but probably won't notice too much with tv shows.

any oppo dvd users out there? reactions?

I had a 5677 in the house for 1 month ...

The 5677 had a great picture. ...

The 5677 uses a full resolution HD2+ chip 1280x720,
the other sets you mention use half resolution chips, and the shake them.

Take a look at another 5078,
if it looks the same to you as yours,
maybe the 5677 is the right choice ?

did anyone find out whether the bulb fan continues to run after a power failure?

does anyone know how bad this is for the lamp/tv?

what surge protection and line conditioning are new owners using?

has anyone thought of doing a 10 questions to Steve P letter. we get 10 questions together and he answers them . no badgering or back and forths????

After mining the vast knowledge in the message boards, it is time for me to buy.

Two quick questions everyone:

6168 or 6178? Which do you all like? My installer is doing the 78s cheaper than the 68s which leads me to believe people like the floating screen design more (or aren't taking to the glossy bezel - is it distracting?)

Sammy DVD-HD950 or Denon DVD-1910?

Thanks!!First off I prefer the floating screen design with the matted bezel...I haven't seen the 78's glossy bezel but I didn't like that look on the Mits diamond's either...it would seem like a distraction even at low light levels...as far as these 2 players...I would chose neither...I would look at the Panny s77 or the Oppo...I have the Oppo hooked up to a HLN567 and couldn't be happier...I hope it looks this good when I get my 6768...only time will tell!

what surge protection and line conditioning are new owners usingBelkin PureAVT Home Theater Power Console PF60...I just love this thing...purchased at E-cost saved $450 over B.B.'s price. Couldn't be happier. Excellent high end unit that really does the job. :)

First off I prefer the floating screen design with the matted bezel...I haven't seen the 78's glossy bezel but I didn't like that look on the Mits diamond's either...it would seem like a distraction even at low light levels.

My original sentiments were very similar to yours, but I have seen that some people find the high gloss black bezel to be very effective in setting off the picture. I suppose I'm rationalizing, since the 71"-er only comes in the xx78 style!

My original sentiments were very similar to yours, but I have seen that some people find the high gloss black bezel to be very effective in setting off the picture. I suppose I'm rationalizing, since the 71"-er only comes in the xx78 style!Being that I have never seen a 78 series, I probably should of not even replied...But last year I witnessed the diamond series Mits at Tweeters with the lights really dim and I did see reflections of light on the Mits...that kind of turned me off on glossy shinny parts on the front of TV's...hopefully it won't be a problem on the 78's.

First off I prefer the floating screen design with the matted bezel...I haven't seen the 78's glossy bezel but I didn't like that look on the Mits diamond's either...it would seem like a distraction even at low light levels...as far as these 2 players...I would chose neither...I would look at the Panny s77 or the Oppo...I have the Oppo hooked up to a HLN567 and couldn't be happier...I hope it looks this good when I get my 6768...only time will tell!


I also thought I would prefer the looks of the 68 series but after seeing the 5678 at Magnolia, I can honestly say the 5678 looks better in my opinion. I think the glossy bezel is just the right size, it gives the 78 series a much classier look than the 68 series and when they are right next to each other the 68 series looks cheap. I don't think I will be going with the Samsung 1080P, but if I was I would change my order to a 6178.

Am I right that the on screen message only appears for about a second and only when the audio type switches to DD 5.1 and that once the message disappears it will remain off the screen as long as DD 5.1 remains as the audio type?
Yes only when the player switches audio mode (ie between DD 2.0 and 5.1). I am going to try a layer change tonight to see what happens

I have a Yamaha VX-1500 receiver; it distinguishes between digital signals. Thus, when a DTS signal comes in, all six speakers work. However, if there is only Dolby Digital coming in, only two speakers work. Hence, yes, 5.1 is emitted from the TV with cable card.
Why would your receiver default to 2.0 DD instead of 5.1? What do you have to do for it to receive 5.1? This sounds suspicious but no offense meant.

Why would your receiver default to 2.0 DD instead of 5.1? What do you have to do for it to receive 5.1? This sounds suspicious but no offense meant.

It defaults to 2.0 DD when the program isn't presented in 5.1. When the program is presented in 5.1, the receiver decodes it. Nothing suspicious about it. . .

Answer on why HDMI is worse than component with SD sources from Motorola 6412 cable box on HLR6178!

I also noticed that SD over HDMI is far worse than over component. During ISF calibration, I demonstrated this to the ISF guy and asked for an explanation. He said it was simply due to a cheap A to D converter in the Motorola 6412 cable box. The component output does not have to undergo this conversion. Makes sense to me!

The HD sources look great on both HDMI and component from the cable box. There is not a big difference, so I am using component and moving the HDMI cable to another source, my Samsung OTA HD box.

HES That was until I saw the 5078 that had just been put on display.
I had read the specs and was tempted by the super high contrast ratio.
The 5677 had a great picture. No cable box, just Comcast pluged directly into the set. Playing with the 78 for an hour leaves me disappointed.

You gave it a whole hour? You used no HD STB or Sat feed? Straight from the wall Coax? Sounds like your judging a digital TV based upon it's analog filter and you aren't feeding it digital.

I guess you did waste a $1,000 extra since you weren't willing to maximize the experience. Perhaps you live in a zone where OTA HD will or won't work well but making such a purchase without maximizing the feed is a waste of money for sure and this means paying for component or DVI/HDMI via a STB designed to maximize your experience. Why spend this much money and then try and do it on the cheap? Plop a Cable Card in for $5 a month or an HD STB or Sat.

Your evaluation matches NONE of the reviewers over the past 2 weeks. I've been maintaining a collection of them all and right now it's over 12 pages long. How is it you are the first owner out of the 12 pages that have made such a statement? Could it be because you've done nothing to ensure the TV gets the best possible signal and processing? Garbage in = garbage out.

I don't understand buyers that purchase a 1080P state of the art set and then expect to plug it directly into the wall and expect quality? If we were to get quality out of that coax wall why would we lease a STB to get digital and HD? Sort of like feeding an AM radio station and expecting FM results. This is a digital TV that needs a true digital path to maximize the experience that HD STB is not just a channel changer.

Cable boxes and Sat feeds make a huge difference with HDMI and Component. Your feeding this set the bare minimum and expecting the max! That doesn't make sense and a whole hour rather than troubleshooting why? I would expect that if you were to use a quality feed with HDMI or HD Box or CableCard for it you'd get a quality result! :D

I've had several days with my Denon 3910 and HLR6178. I don't have the MB problems described. What am I missing? What situations bring this out?

HES

You gave it a whole hour? You used no HD STB or Sat feed? Straight from the wall Coax? Sounds like your judging a digital TV based upon it's analog filter and you aren't feeding it digital.
:D

Plugging any set that has an ATSC tuner with Qam built in, 'straight to the coax" will give you HD from Comcast, and "digital" if you subscribe to it. Infact, thats how many use them. No STB required.

Rick

Sammy DVD-HD950 or Denon DVD-1910?

Thanks!!

Stay away from the 1910. I had it and the macroblocking was horrible. I had the 1910 for about the year and never really thought it was a good player.

I have a Yamaha VX-1500 receiver; it distinguishes between digital signals. Thus, when a DTS signal comes in, all six speakers work. However, if there is only Dolby Digital coming in, only two speakers work. Hence, yes, 5.1 is emitted from the TV with cable card.
I'm not sure I'm following this. I have the Yamaha 2400 and it also distinguishes between digital signals. However, when Dolby Digital comes in, all six speakers work, as long as it's a 5.1 DD signal. There really should be no difference between DD and DTS, they both can provide 5.1 sound. Did you mean to say Dolby Surround? If so, then you are correct, only two speakers will show (and with my Yamaha a PCM indicator will light up).

I also thought I would prefer the looks of the 68 series but after seeing the 5678 at Magnolia, I can honestly say the 5678 looks better in my opinion. I think the glossy bezel is just the right size, it gives the 78 series a much classier look than the 68 series and when they are right next to each other the 68 series looks cheap. I don't think I will be going with the Samsung 1080P, but if I was I would change my order to a 6178.My reply had nothing to do with the look of the sets...just did not like the reflection of light. I agree the glossy bezel looks rich.

I have a question about lifting the TV. With the base on, is it OK to grab it below the speakers and lift it? And also with the base off can you lift it in the area between the speakers and the screen? I'm asking because I will need to remove the base before I position it on my TV stand and I just want to make sure that I don't damage anything when lifting it.
SEKO is supposed to deliver the 6168 today between 12 and 5 p.m. and I have my brother coming over tonight to help me unbox the set, remove the base, and position it on my stand.

I got my 6168 last night from TVA. No problems - happy customer. Watched Jay Leno last night (1080i) and picture was incredible. SD looked good too. Hooked my HTPC via VGA (adjusted overscan) and it was sharp. Text on the screen looked good and legible. However, PowerDVD 5 platinum was very noisy. I tried WinDVD and there was less noise. Does anybody has this problem with PowerDVD? I tried using my DVD player hooked via component and it has much less noise.

It always locked up. For the first few days I thought it might have just been all of the input switching I was doing that might have confused it, but unplugging and letting it sit before replugging, etc. etc. didn't help matters. I'd say the rate of locking up upon powering it on is ~ 5 in every 6 attempts. Hasn't gotten more or less frequent, so you're probably right ... I would know within the first day or so if a new unit was good or not. That would indicate that yours is good to go ;)

just a thought, it your 950 inside a cabinet and/or a space without a lot of ventilation ? I've read where people would have problems with dvd players (different models) if the player gives out a lot of heat but no ventilation, causing the player to overheat

just a thought, it your 950 inside a cabinet and/or a space without a lot of ventilation ? I've read where people would have problems with dvd players (different models) if the player gives out a lot of heat but no ventilation, causing the player to overheat

Good thought, although his is locking up when it is powering on so it's hard to believe it could overheat before it is even on.

Regarding the HD950 and connecting it to an HLR via HDMI, I just got off the phone with Level 2 Samsung support regarding the "HDMI audio not supported" message. They confirmed that at present there is no good fix for this problem, but that they are quite aware of the issue and are working on a fix. I pressed him on when he thought a fix would be available and his response was he had no idea and in fact can not provide any assurance that they will be able to fix the issue. I think he was just covering himself and that they will come out with some fix, even if it is just being able to permanently turn off the on screen messaging. However, it would be better if they could create an option in the setup menu that asks whether the player is hooked up via an optical cable to an A/V Receiver and if so, no message would ever appear.

My original sentiments were very similar to yours, but I have seen that some people find the high gloss black bezel to be very effective in setting off the picture. I suppose I'm rationalizing, since the 71"-er only comes in the xx78 style!LOL, another small thing to consider (rationalize? ;)) is that we're not talking the whole screen here, we're only talking about <2" width. I have the smallest 78 and I can see how that 2" width of shiny happy bezel will bother some people. On a 71" set, however, the overall effect of that 2" bezel is reduced to a degree ... I'd think the larger you go in the 78 series, the easier it would be to live with the bezel in controlled lighting. Just a hypothesis.

I have a question about lifting the TV. With the base on, is it OK to grab it below the speakers and lift it? And also with the base off can you lift it in the area between the speakers and the screen? I'm asking because I will need to remove the base before I position it on my TV stand and I just want to make sure that I don't damage anything when lifting it.
SEKO is supposed to deliver the 6168 today between 12 and 5 p.m. and I have my brother coming over tonight to help me unbox the set, remove the base, and position it on my stand.


My wife and I lifted our 6168 by using the gap between the speakers and the screen with no ill effects.

just a thought, it your 950 inside a cabinet and/or a space without a lot of ventilation ? I've read where people would have problems with dvd players (different models) if the player gives out a lot of heat but no ventilation, causing the player to overheatI've been wondering about this a little, and yes, my components are behind a glass door -- but there is rear ventilation. However, while I've been testing everything, I've usually kept the glass door completely open for access to make changes anyway. So I don't think the player's overheating from it's own heat or that of the receiver on the shelf below.

On the other hand, I don't have a better place to put my 8300HD other than on top of the 950, and it's a frigging toaster ... even when off, it still runs and generates heat. I doubt it's actually causing the lockup, but it would probably be wise of me to try to isolate the position of the 8300HD a bit more. I don't want to be creating additional problems, that's for sure. Thanks for the advice!

Since I'm currently evaluating my DVD player options (may get a 950 replacement, may go with another player) to pair with my 5078, I wanted to do a quick status check:

1) What's the track record been for DLP displays when paired with a player using the Faroudja FLI23xx chips ... Carled has commented a couple times in the DVD forums that DLPs tend to not be one of the technologies that exacerbates the macroblocking enhancement issues of such players. I know very few of us have paired these players to the new 1080p sets, (except for Tony and a few others who've tried the Denon 3910 I think), and I'm expecting that their behavior with the 1080p sets will be different to a degree. But how have other DLPs done with these players in the past?

2) What are the current thoughts about the wisdom of pairing these 1080p sets with an upconverting player? Has anyone's opinions changed after receiving their tv and testing their setup? Earlier, a number of us argued that sending a 1080i upconverted signal could produce the best results. Any arguments to the contrary or experiences that still support the idea?

It defaults to 2.0 DD when the program isn't presented in 5.1. When the program is presented in 5.1, the receiver decodes it. Nothing suspicious about it. . .
OK sure. They all do that. The way I read your first note was it ALWAYS went to DD 2.0 and you had to take some action to make it do DD 5.1. Sort of like the way CTS DVD's default to sterio instead of DD 5.1 and you have to manually change the audio to another channel to get the 5.1.

My 6168 was delivered yesterday.
This is my first HDTV. I'm upgrading from an old 27" tube, so I'm a n00b to all this.

I have a Motorola 6208 DCT hooked up via DVI/HDMI.
The SD channels look pretty crappy. Even seeminly worse than on my 27".
Is this due to the 6208? It doesn't have a good repuation for SD content.
Did the picture look better on my 27" because it is a smaller screen and not "good" enough to show all the imperfections of the SD picture?

It just occurred to me I can bypass the 6208 run the cable directly into the TV to see if they look better that way. Duh. I will do this when I get home from work tonight.

The HD content looks good, but nothing mind blowing and I didn't see any HD that looked better than my best DVDs (played through my Oppo).
In dark scenes, the blacks get really pixelated.
Again, is this a fault of the DCT?

I'm on the list for a Motorola 6412, but they are in short supply right now. I'm an Insight cable employee, so I won't get one until customer demand is met. I should get mine sometime in September.

The dark areas on DVDs looked a little strange, like someone had colored the dark areas by hand. Not sure if that's a very good description, but it's the first thing that came to mind. In general, I expected the picture to be a little sharper.
Is this a DVD limitation or the TV?

I hooked my GameCube up via the RCA inputs and there was noticeable lag playing Resident Evil 4. If I get a digital output cable (component), could that reduce the lag?

Basically, I'm slightly disappointed, but was I just expecting too much?

I appreciate any comments.

Thanks,
Johnny

Okay,

I got my set and I have a problem. Hopefully, someone will be able to help me, because I'm definitely calling Samsung or TVA and having this set replaced if I can't figure out this issue in the next few days.

So, when I watch HD OTA (signal strength literally could not be better), I see red/pink dots (like static) on the HD image, mostly in areas where there are blacks (but sometimes where the picture is not dark - I have a feeling it is just easier to notice when it is darker since it is pink/red in color). This occurs less when there is motion, and more when an image is still, for example, if someone is standing and not moving. I have attached an example for you all to look at.

Keep in mind, DVD quality is fantastic, so no issues there. Also, no problems when watching my SD Direct TV TiVo either. It does show up with some SD OTA material (when commercials are on on an HD OTA broadcast), so I'm wondering if this is an issue with the way the tuner processes information and delivers it to the TV.

Anyone seen this before, or have any ideas? Do I need to wait to let the set "break-in" before calling TVA or Samsung?

Thanks for your help!

Regarding the HD950 and connecting it to an HLR via HDMI, I just got off the phone with Level 2 Samsung support regarding the "HDMI audio not supported" message. They confirmed that at present there is no good fix for this problem, but that they are quite aware of the issue and are working on a fix. I pressed him on when he thought a fix would be available and his response was he had no idea and in fact can not provide any assurance that they will be able to fix the issue. I think he was just covering himself and that they will come out with some fix, even if it is just being able to permanently turn off the on screen messaging. However, it would be better if they could create an option in the setup menu that asks whether the player is hooked up via an optical cable to an A/V Receiver and if so, no message would ever appear.
Did you also have a chance to ask about the 'flashlight' front display and being able to turn that off permanently too?

Since I'm currently evaluating my DVD player options (may get a 950 replacement, may go with another player) to pair with my 5078, I wanted to do a quick status check:

1) What's the track record been for DLP displays when paired with a player using the Faroudja FLI23xx chips ... Carled has commented a couple times in the DVD forums that DLPs tend to not be one of the technologies that exacerbates the macroblocking enhancement issues of such players. I know very few of us have paired these players to the new 1080p sets, (except for Tony and a few others who've tried the Denon 3910 I think), and I'm expecting that their behavior with the 1080p sets will be different to a degree. But how have other DLPs done with these players in the past?

2) What are the current thoughts about the wisdom of pairing these 1080p sets with an upconverting player? Has anyone's opinions changed after receiving their tv and testing their setup? Earlier, a number of us argued that sending a 1080i upconverted signal could produce the best results. Any arguments to the contrary or experiences that still support the idea?

I've had a 2910 with a hlp6163 for about 9 months and am quite pleased with it. (I went through the Sammy 841, 941, Panny s97, Denon 1910 before.) As I've noted in some posts above, I do (very) occasionally see modest MB'ing in isolated scenes, it's not been enough to bother me. And overall I find the PQ to be very good (it passes BTB with ease) as is the build quality of the unit (have never had a problem with jamming, etc.). PQ-wise, the 2910 is reported to be just about as good as the 3910, the latter primarily having higher quality audio.

Clorox

If you are using a DVI/HDMI cable, verify that its secure.

Does it only happen from one source device or perhaps only one channel??

My wife and I lifted our 6168 by using the gap between the speakers and the screen with no ill effects.
Yeah and on the 56's at least they is a ledge on the back at about the same height that acts as a second purchase. These TV's are so light and easy to lift they practically move themselves. I have been pulling ours in and out of its enclosure now about 5 times. Try doing that with a CRT based RPTV of a fraction of the size of the 56.

Clorox

If you are using a DVI/HDMI cable, verify that its secure.

Does it only happen from one source device or perhaps only one channel??

This is OTA HD and it happened on Letterman as well on CBS (Digital, but not HD)which was also OTA.

Thus, cables can't be the problem, and the channel itself can't be the problem.

Also, I didn't see it on Law and Order SVU earlier in the evening, so I'm kind of thinking something might be messed up in the set, since sometimes it can be worse. I probably haven't watched enough DVD material yet to definitely state that this won't be a problem there either, and that is through HDMI.

HES

You gave it a whole hour? You used no HD STB or Sat feed? Straight from the wall Coax? Sounds like your judging a digital TV based upon it's analog filter and you aren't feeding it digital.

I guess you did waste a $1,000 extra since you weren't willing to maximize the experience. Perhaps you live in a zone where OTA HD will or won't work well but making such a purchase without maximizing the feed is a waste of money for sure and this means paying for component or DVI/HDMI via a STB designed to maximize your experience. Why spend this much money and then try and do it on the cheap? Plop a Cable Card in for $5 a month or an HD STB or Sat.

Your evaluation matches NONE of the reviewers over the past 2 weeks. I've been maintaining a collection of them all and right now it's over 12 pages long. How is it you are the first owner out of the 12 pages that have made such a statement? Could it be because you've done nothing to ensure the TV gets the best possible signal and processing? Garbage in = garbage out.

I don't understand buyers that purchase a 1080P state of the art set and then expect to plug it directly into the wall and expect quality? If we were to get quality out of that coax wall why would we lease a STB to get digital and HD? Sort of like feeding an AM radio station and expecting FM results. This is a digital TV that needs a true digital path to maximize the experience that HD STB is not just a channel changer.

Cable boxes and Sat feeds make a huge difference with HDMI and Component. Your feeding this set the bare minimum and expecting the max! That doesn't make sense and a whole hour rather than troubleshooting why? I would expect that if you were to use a quality feed with HDMI or HD Box or CableCard for it you'd get a quality result! :D

Westa...back off a little! All the guy said was that when he hooked up his *78 to Comcast, the PQ wasn't as good in SD or HD, the sound quality was less and the remote menu was more difficult to use than it was on his *77. He was disappointed because he expected with the higher specs of the newer model it should be superior---and he was asking for advice.

Why shouldn't he expect the same or better performance from a newer set with specs that exceed his older set when hooked up to the same source as the old one? Your reply does little to help identify why he experienced lesser performance or offer constructive advice. Reminds me of those who suggest you buy a HDTV to play pc games, watch DVD's and forget about watching television until a decent amount of HD content comes available.

So, when I watch HD OTA (signal strength literally could not be better), I see red/pink dots (like static) on the HD image, mostly in areas where there are blacks (but sometimes where the picture is not dark - I have a feeling it is just easier to notice when it is darker since it is pink/red in color). This occurs less when there is motion, and more when an image is still, for example, if someone is standing and not moving. I have attached an example for you all to look at.What I don't get is why the spots aren't appearing in the dark areas of the background, or did your photo just not pick them up? Do the specs usually appear when the image is completely still, or do they appear when there's very slow movement? Not sure where I'm going with this, just thought I'd ask. Can't be the dmd since other sources look fine ....

Clorox

Is the OTA tuner internal or external?

What I don't get is why the spots aren't appearing in the dark areas of the background, or did your photo just not pick them up? Do the specs usually appear when the image is completely still, or do they appear when there's very slow movement? Not sure where I'm going with this, just thought I'd ask. Can't be the dmd since other sources look fine ....

I am as puzzled as you are. I don't remember off the top of my head whether or not they were appearing in those squares in the background, but I would say two things. The spots tend to appear more in larger areas of darkness, and they appear most when the image is still. They still appear when the image is slow, but they are extremely noticeable the more still the image. Am I right to assume that this is an issue that is not common?

Clorox

Is the OTA tuner internal or external?

OTA tuner is the sets internal tuner.

Last week I mentioned that I couldn't get a signal with my Oppo DVD connected via HDMI/DVI. Apparently, the HDMI connection (or the cable) is flakey. With some jiggling the picture comes through on the DVI connection on the TV. However, when I connect the DVD player to the HDMI 1 input, I get either no picture, or with a little jiggling, a green picture. At this point, do you guys think it's the TV or the cable?

bluefrost, I am replacing my 5668 due to a faulty HDMI card. I see at least one other instance. Still low in number, but one of the more common problems at this stage. Still a great component picture and no complaints due to super service.

Am I right to assume that this is an issue that is not common?I certainly don't recall anyone mentioning this specific issue ...

Okay,

I got my set and I have a problem. Hopefully, someone will be able to help me, because I'm definitely calling Samsung or TVA and having this set replaced if I can't figure out this issue in the next few days.

So, when I watch HD OTA (signal strength literally could not be better), I see red/pink dots (like static) on the HD image, mostly in areas where there are blacks (but sometimes where the picture is not dark - I have a feeling it is just easier to notice when it is darker since it is pink/red in color). This occurs less when there is motion, and more when an image is still, for example, if someone is standing and not moving. I have attached an example for you all to look at.

Keep in mind, DVD quality is fantastic, so no issues there. Also, no problems when watching my SD Direct TV TiVo either. It does show up with some SD OTA material (when commercials are on on an HD OTA broadcast), so I'm wondering if this is an issue with the way the tuner processes information and delivers it to the TV.

Anyone seen this before, or have any ideas? Do I need to wait to let the set "break-in" before calling TVA or Samsung?

Thanks for your help!

Clorox,

This is somewhat like my picture through HDMI. Lots of red splotching, but mine is tied to anything red on the screen. I will take a shot today and post it and see what you think. Based on your post, I assume you are not running HDMI with this input?

1) What's the track record been for DLP displays when paired with a player using the Faroudja FLI23xx chips ...

I had a Denon 1910 (admittedly not a great DVD player, but it does use the Faroudja chip) paired with an HL-R5668W and the macroblocking was unbearable. If macroblocking bothers you, I would stay away from any DVD player that uses the Faroudja chip if you are pairing it with an HL-Rxxx8.

I've attached another image that was an SD image from the OTA broadcast (internal tuner as well) that shows the problem. I have circled the areas with the problem. It is the same stuff that appeared in the original conan picture, just not as much (its harder to see in the picture than it is on the set when you are watching TV).

This image is sideways because it wouldn't let me upload it the other way (too big).

I have also included the original Conan image with the problem.

Anyone with a 942 and a xx68/78. Can you tell me which device you hooked up your OTA antenna and which model you chose. I need an antenna to get my locals in HD and just now shopping. I can get by with a red rated antenna unless I want CBS in HD (47 miles away) and then I would need a violet rated antenna. I have my info from antenna web.org

Thanks in advance for the help.

Clorox,

This is somewhat like my picture through HDMI. Lots of red splotching, but mine is tied to anything red on the screen. I will take a shot today and post it and see what you think. Based on your post, I assume you are not running HDMI with this input?The specs/splotching appear to be following a slightly tilted series of horizontal rows ... did you observe this patterning in other scenes, or are the rows just some function of the pinstriping on his jacket? FLApilot, what about yours? Random or organized?

Clorox,

This is somewhat like my picture through HDMI. Lots of red splotching, but mine is tied to anything red on the screen. I will take a shot today and post it and see what you think. Based on your post, I assume you are not running HDMI with this input?

Yeah, HDMI seems fine with my new HD950. I may have seen a little when I was watching some of Gladiator (I don't really remember), but I'll have to really run several DVDs through and check. It's weird, because I would go back and forth between the DVD and OTA HD feed last, and I could definitely see the problem on Conan, for example, but switching back to the DVD there would be none of the problem (and Gladiator has a lot of dark scenes, both fast and slow).

The specs/splotching appear to be following a slightly tilted series of horizontal rows ... did you observe this patterning in other scenes, or are the rows just some function of the pinstriping on his jacket? FLApilot, what about yours? Random or organized?


Yeah, that is definitely the way it looks in the picture, although when you're watching it on the set it kind of looks random.

Plus, you can definitely see it in non-dark areas as well, depending on what was being shown on the feed. It was very noticeable on Conan and Leno's suits, for some reason (but I don't think I saw it at all on L&O SVU, even though there was dark clothing there as well). I don't mind waiting to see if the TV will settle into itself, but if this lasts I am going to need a replacement. I think Conan looks pretty concerned about my set too, don't you? :D :D :D

HES

You gave it a whole hour? You used no HD STB or Sat feed? Straight from the wall Coax? Sounds like your judging a digital TV based upon it's analog filter and you aren't feeding it digital.

I guess you did waste a $1,000 extra since you weren't willing to maximize the experience. Perhaps you live in a zone where OTA HD will or won't work well but making such a purchase without maximizing the feed is a waste of money for sure and this means paying for component or DVI/HDMI via a STB designed to maximize your experience. Why spend this much money and then try and do it on the cheap? Plop a Cable Card in for $5 a month or an HD STB or Sat.

Your evaluation matches NONE of the reviewers over the past 2 weeks. I've been maintaining a collection of them all and right now it's over 12 pages long. How is it you are the first owner out of the 12 pages that have made such a statement? Could it be because you've done nothing to ensure the TV gets the best possible signal and processing? Garbage in = garbage out.

I don't understand buyers that purchase a 1080P state of the art set and then expect to plug it directly into the wall and expect quality? If we were to get quality out of that coax wall why would we lease a STB to get digital and HD? Sort of like feeding an AM radio station and expecting FM results. This is a digital TV that needs a true digital path to maximize the experience that HD STB is not just a channel changer.

Cable boxes and Sat feeds make a huge difference with HDMI and Component. Your feeding this set the bare minimum and expecting the max! That doesn't make sense and a whole hour rather than troubleshooting why? I would expect that if you were to use a quality feed with HDMI or HD Box or CableCard for it you'd get a quality result! :D

I missed that part. I thought he said HD looked better on the 720p set -
if all he viewed was analog cable - how does it know this?

I think Conan looks pretty concerned about my set too, don't you? :D :D :DLOL :D ... Got to run to lunch, but I'll keep thinking on it ... Trying to figure out if there's any test you could run to be able to definitely rule the source out as the culprit.

I've had several days with my Denon 3910 and HLR6178. I don't have the MB problems described. What am I missing? What situations bring this out?

The MB is very minor on most DVDs.

Dark scenses on some DVDS will show "purple" sparkles accross the area...

Hey I'm new to THIS thread, and after hours and hours of endless thought I can't make a decision... I'm need expert advise about choosing a screen size. I will be about 10ft away from the HLR**68W and I will watch SD and Analouge as well as HD. Should I play it safe and get the HLR5668W? Or go with the 6168? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :eek: how far away are you, how big is your TV, whats YOUR OPINION!!!????

Hey I'm new to THIS thread, and after hours and hours of endless thought I can't make a decision... I'm need expert advise about choosing a screen size. I will be about 10ft away from the HLR**68W and I will watch SD and Analouge as well as HD. Should I play it safe and get the HLR5668W? Or go with the 6168? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :eek: how far away are you, how big is your TV, whats YOUR OPINION!!!????

go for the 6168 - I am 9 feet away - and it looks great.

I'm not sure I'm following this. I have the Yamaha 2400 and it also distinguishes between digital signals. However, when Dolby Digital comes in, all six speakers work, as long as it's a 5.1 DD signal. There really should be no difference between DD and DTS, they both can provide 5.1 sound. Did you mean to say Dolby Surround? If so, then you are correct, only two speakers will show (and with my Yamaha a PCM indicator will light up).

Dolby Digital is 2.0. Dolby Digital 5.1 is 5.1 One of us is confused regarding terminology (I admit I may be the one).

I missed that part. I thought he said HD looked better on the 720p set -
if all he viewed was analog cable - how does it know this?

I think westa is misinterpreting, and overreacting. The poster said that on his 77, he was watching *digital* channels off the coax, so presumably that's what he's comparing the 78 to. If I understand correctly, you can get unscrambled digital channels directly off the coax. (In fact, some people here have suggested that you get better results plugging the coax directly into the TV rather than going through a cable box in some cases.)

Westa, this is an owner's thread, and speaking as someone who's preordered a 6168, I'm interested in hearing what owners have to say. If they don't like the picture, they should feel free to say so; maybe it's a problem with the set, or maybe it's a calibration problem, or maybe there's something wrong with their setup, or maybe they just don't like the picture--but in any case, we should get as much information as we can. Having you jump down people's throats with sarcastic responses as soon as they have the slightest bit of a negative reaction is about as unhelpful as gazelle's constant anti-Samsung ranting.

If I get my set and am unhappy with the picture, I would hope I could get some advice from this forum, rather than just angry ranting.

go for the 6168 - I am 9 feet away - and it looks great.
Thankx, this is a sweet sign for a newbie to this thread, answer in three minutes WOW!!! :D :D :D

I think westa is misinterpreting, and overreacting. The poster said that on his 77, he was watching *digital* channels off the coax, so presumably that's what he's comparing the 78 to. (In fact, many people here have suggested that you get better results plugging the coax directly into the TV rather than going through a cable box in some cases.)

Westa, this is an owner's thread, and I'm interested in hearing what owners have to say. If they don't like the picture, they should feel free to say so; maybe it's a problem with the set, or maybe it's a calibration problem, or maybe they just don't like the picture--we should get as much information as we can. Having you jump down people's throats with sarcastic responses when they have the slightest bit of a negative reaction is about as unhelpful as gazelle's constant anti-Samsung ranting.

And maybe you're like me, where I can tell the set is fantastic (DVDs), but I see nasty pink crap static over HD OTA (and I don't think it's the source). I'm pissed to have a problem like this. What do people think is adequate time before calling TVA or Samsung? Shall I wait a week to see if the problem goes away?

Dolby Digital is 2.0. Dolby Digital 5.1 is 5.1 One of us is confused regarding terminology (I admit I may be the one).
Dolby Digital is a term for a compression technology. It was first called AC3 but Dolby thought that did not sell well in the consumer space. I think AC2 was dolby pro logic?

Anyway Dolby Digital can be anywhere from a .1 signal to a 5.1 signal and any combination of the 5.1 channels. Its all DD.

And maybe you're like me, where I can tell the set is fantastic (DVDs), but I see nasty pink crap static over HD OTA (and I don't think it's the source). I'm pissed to have a problem like this. What do people think is adequate time before calling TVA or Samsung? Shall I wait a week to see if the problem goes away?

about one hour if your convinced its not the source.

To the new Samsung owner's


I am considering a 6168. What type of screen do they have? I have 3 windows directly across from where I would like to place my TV, and am looking for TVs with the least amount of reflection, so that I dont watch myself watching tv.

about one hour if your convinced its not the source.

How can I be sure? If I see it on more than one channel, is that a pretty good indication? Other people don't seem to normally see this. Also, I'm in NYC, so I'm pretty sure that my OTA signal is the same as everyone elses, so I doubt it's the broadcasters. However, DVDs look fine so far. Is it possible that it has something to do with the tuner circuitry and how it passes the signal to the display for OTA? Am I right to assume that one should not see any static on a digital OTA signal? All bars are full for signal strength on my set for all network channels.

And maybe you're like me, where I can tell the set is fantastic (DVDs), but I see nasty pink crap static over HD OTA (and I don't think it's the source). I'm pissed to have a problem like this. What do people think is adequate time before calling TVA or Samsung? Shall I wait a week to see if the problem goes away?


I wouldn't wait. I'd go ahead and start calling today.

Post from HD950 thread here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5976887&posted=1#post5976887)

...

So while the HD950 cannot pass the BTB tests, it appears to give an excellent picture even in shadow details. I will pass the baton to others who may continue to investigate what is happening here and if we should be worried about it. For now I will continue to keep the HD950, even though the PQ is only marginally better than what my old Sony and the HLR5668 can do together.

I had a Denon 1910 (admittedly not a great DVD player, but it does use the Faroudja chip) paired with an HL-R5668W and the macroblocking was unbearable. If macroblocking bothers you, I would stay away from any DVD player that uses the Faroudja chip if you are pairing it with an HL-Rxxx8.

The Denon 2910 and 3910 also have a Faroudja chip, and MUCH less MB'ing than the 1910. It's not quite so simple. (I had a 1910 and agree with you; have had a 2910 for over 6 months.)

Thankx, this is a sweet sign for a newbie to this thread, answer in three minutes WOW!!! :D :D :DNo doubt 61" and you will be in HD heaven...Enjoy :D

I wouldn't wait. I'd go ahead and start calling today.

Who should I call first, TVA or Samsung? What are my options? I assume I can just have TVA replace the set, but if it can be fixed by a Samsung technician, why go through the hassle of boxing the set up, right?

*sigh*

Does anyone know why TVA is offering the 56" ITem #HLR5668 for $50 less than the 50" item #5078? As best I can tell they are identical except that the 5668 has a floating screen look.

How can I be sure? If I see it on more than one channel, is that a pretty good indication? Other people don't seem to normally see this. Also, I'm in NYC, so I'm pretty sure that my OTA signal is the same as everyone elses, so I doubt it's the broadcasters. However, DVDs look fine so far. Is it possible that it has something to do with the tuner circuitry and how it passes the signal to the display for OTA? Am I right to assume that one should not see any static on a digital OTA signal? All bars are full for signal strength on my set for all network channels.

If you saw it on several or all channels last night and you still see it on several or all channels today, it doesn't hurt to call Samsung and see what they say...

You should not see the red stuff on your picture you are seeing, in my opinion.

To the new Samsung owner's


I am considering a 6168. What type of screen do they have? I have 3 windows directly across from where I would like to place my TV, and am looking for TVs with the least amount of reflection, so that I dont watch myself watching tv.
The HLR6168W does not have a mirror like reflection screen. If light is reflected from the screen, the reflection of the light will be blurry. (this issue has already bee covered in other threads and posts, so I'd recommend searching for an answer before asking it)

P.S: You will get better results by searching!!! ;)

Fry’s electronics in Atlanta unboxed their Samsung HLR 5668W last night.

It looked pretty good right out of the box with HDNet from DTV. They were also connecting an upconverting Samsung DVD player to it. I didn’t get to see anything play through it though. They have 3 in stock. The price had four zero as the first two digits.

Sean seemed to be the most 1080p knowlegable sales guy on duty. Nice guy too. If I could afford 4 grand right now there would only be two left.