My wife and I lifted our 6168 by using the gap between the speakers and the screen with no ill effects.


THANKS!

If you saw it on several or all channels last night and you still see it on several or all channels today, it doesn't hurt to call Samsung and see what they say...

You should not see the red stuff on your picture you are seeing, in my opinion.

Thanks for your input tony. When I get home this evening I'll see what the story is and then put a call in to Samsung to see if they've heard of anything like this. Being able to e-mail them a photo ought to help as well.

I have a Yamaha VX-1500 receiver; it distinguishes between digital signals. Thus, when a DTS signal comes in, all six speakers work. However, if there is only Dolby Digital coming in, only two speakers work. Hence, yes, 5.1 is emitted from the TV with cable card.

I think most AVR's automatically detect a 5.1 signal and output it to the speaker system as such. If the program is only broadcasting stereo, then the AVR should recognize this and output a 'synthesized' 5.1 (PLXII, Neo6, something like that) to the speakers. So you will be getting ouput from all your 5.1 speaker system all the time.

Fry’s electronics in Atlanta unboxed their Samsung HLR 5668W last night.

It looked pretty good right out of the box with HDNet from DTV. They were also connecting an upconverting Samsung DVD player to it. I didn’t get to see anything play through it though. They have 3 in stock. The price had four zero as the first two digits.

Sean seemed to be the most 1080p knowlegable sales guy on duty. Nice guy too. If I could afford 4 grand right now there would only be two left.

Do you have oh, I don't know, say, roughly $3,245 by any chance?

Does anyone know why TVA is offering the 56" ITem #HLR5668 for $50 less than the 50" item #5078? As best I can tell they are identical except that the 5668 has a floating screen look.
Your pretty much right! :) the 78 and 68 are basically the same except for the looks, so go ahead GET THE BIGGER SCREEN FOR THE CHEAPER PRICE!!! :) (Samsung sells the 78's to only custom installers, so your paying for the feeling that "my 78 is better than your 68" type of thing, even though they're pretty much the same!)

Thanks for your input tony. When I get home this evening I'll see what the story is and then put a call in to Samsung to see if they've heard of anything like this. Being able to e-mail them a photo ought to help as well.

I agree. Good luck.

I think most AVR's automatically detect a 5.1 signal and output it to the speaker system as such. If the program is only broadcasting stereo, then the AVR should recognize this and output a 'synthesized' 5.1 (PLXII, Neo6, something like that) to the speakers. So you will be getting ouput from all your 5.1 speaker system all the time.
This is exactly what I am afraid might be happening. If the system automatically tries to force 5.1 channels then we don't know if he is really getting a 5.1 feed. On my set there are lights for each channel so I know what the sound processor is receiving, irrespective of what sound processing I may have chosen. For example I like a 5 channel synthesis of stereo better than stereo for CD's.

I have a question about lifting the TV. With the base on, is it OK to grab it below the speakers and lift it? And also with the base off can you lift it in the area between the speakers and the screen? I'm asking because I will need to remove the base before I position it on my TV stand and I just want to make sure that I don't damage anything when lifting it.

We lifted it using the gap with and without the base. The delivery men did the same thing. I wouldn't lift it under the speakers -- I've seen a 6167 at a Fry's where the speaker sections were slightly bent upwards on the left and right.

No doubt 61" and you will be in HD heaven...Enjoy :D
I may be in HDTV heaven, but I might be in SD heck (allowed to say **** on this thread?) too, LOL! :D :D :D :)

P.S: 10ft away from a 61" is as far away as my room will allow, should I get a 56" instead to be safe when watching SD?

This is exactly what I am afraid might be happening. If the system automatically tries to force 5.1 channels then we don't know if he is really getting a 5.1 feed. On my set there are lights for each channel so I know what the sound processor is receiving, irrespective of what sound processing I may have chosen. For example I like a 5 channel synthesis of stereo better than stereo for CD's.

Different AVR's obviously operate differently. Mine (Pio 1014) displays in its window what it is sending out, e.g., DDex , PLxII, Neo6, which are 7.1 (even though there are no 7.1 sources!), and one can toggle through the different possibilities.

I may be in HDTV heaven, but I might be in SD heck (allowed to say **** on this thread?) too, LOL! :D :D :D :)

P.S: 10ft away from a 61" is as far away as my room will allow, should I get a 56" instead to be safe when watching SD?

On my 56", SD absolutely sucks through S-Video on my DirecTiVo. That being said, it's not the TV's fault. When you scale analog TV like that, it's just going to happen that way unfortunately. Also, when you're switching back and forth from DTV signals and SD signals, you are going to notice it when it looks bad, and DTV simply looks normal to you so SD looks like garbage. Hard to explain I guess.

Does anyone know why TVA is offering the 56" ITem #HLR5668 for $50 less than the 50" item #5078? As best I can tell they are identical except that the 5668 has a floating screen look.

Because the 78 series is the "Upscale" version of the 68 series. This and more is answered on the first page of the "Samsung 2005 DLP HDTV Discussion --- HLRxxxxW Models" thread.

On my 56", SD absolutely sucks through S-Video on my DirecTiVo. That being said, it's not the TV's fault. When you scale analog TV like that, it's just going to happen that way unfortunately. Also, when you're switching back and forth from DTV signals and SD signals, you are going to notice it when it looks bad, and DTV simply looks normal to you so SD looks like garbage. Hard to explain I guess.
I thought DTV and SD where the same thing, unless DTV is HDTV??? SO theres, HDTV, SD, DTV, AANNDD Analouge through cable??? :confused:
P.S. Is your 56" a 1080P Sammy?

Clorox,

This is somewhat like my picture through HDMI. Lots of red splotching, but mine is tied to anything red on the screen. I will take a shot today and post it and see what you think. Based on your post, I assume you are not running HDMI with this input?

You are not alone. Like FLAPilot, I also have similar issue, but only with HDMI inputs. Mine has lots of red blotching and it looks to get worse as time goes by. If I switch on the TV in the morning, it will be just fine for sometime (maybe 5 minutes). I have the samsung support person coming in tomorrow.

I may be in HDTV heaven, but I might be in SD heck (allowed to say **** on this thread?) too, LOL! :D :D :D :)

P.S: 10ft away from a 61" is as far away as my room will allow, should I get a 56" instead to be safe when watching SD?

I am watching the 6168 at 9 feet and may move my couch up a foot so
that I am 8 feet away...

SD is not as good as watching on a SD tube but very acceptable..

I am watching the 6168 at 9 feet and may move my couch up a foot so
that I am 8 feet away...

SD is not as good as watching on a SD tube but very acceptable..
OK...OKAY, I go with my gut and your opinions and get a 61"

For those of you in production, are we seeing an unusually high rate of "issues" with the introduction of the 68/78 series?

Flame me if you must, but it seems like a large number of new owners are having problems, of some sort: DOA, spots, HDMI, interfacing, just to name a few.

Is this to be expected or does Samsung have some re-engineering to do?

I am watching the 6168 at 9 feet and may move my couch up a foot so
that I am 8 feet away...

SD is not as good as watching on a SD tube but very acceptable..

Have you tried SD over component? Some have indicated that it is better this way. Would be a nusance, of course, to have to change inputs for SD, but it the difference were dramatic it might be worth it. (BTW, you and I are on the same wave length re viewing distance; I like the 'full emersion' effect too!)

I may be in HDTV heaven, but I might be in SD heck (allowed to say **** on this thread?) too, LOL! :D :D :D :)

P.S: 10ft away from a 61" is as far away as my room will allow, should I get a 56" instead to be safe when watching SD?

When in doubt, put the time and effort in viewing these sets locally and picking the right set for you. You will become used to the larger screen sizes after you own your set for a while. But, if the set is to large or you get to close, you will be able to more easily see the defects in the picture. Some people are not bother by this, others are distracted.

When in doubt, put the time and effort in viewing these sets locally and picking the right set for you. You will become used to the larger screen sizes after you own your set for a while. But, if the set is to large or you get to close, you will be able to more easily see the defects in the picture. Some people are not bother by this, others are distracted.
Your right. It is a personal choice, it's just that i don't see the sammy coming to Florida for the next two months!!!

For those of you in production, are we seeing an unusually high rate of "issues" with the introduction of the 68/78 series?

Flame me if you must, but it seems like a large number of new owners are having problems, of some sort: DOA, spots, HDMI, interfacing, just to name a few.

Is this to be expected or does Samsung have some re-engineering to do?

Remember many of these sets have received a lot of shipping handling. In many (most) cases up to four shippers may have been used. With transfers between trucks and load balancing in a truck there was probably a lot of handing. There is no way to evaluate reliability from the isolated reports we have, most owners are probably just watching their sets and no longer reading AVS.

Millerwill - Can you Quantify your remarks with OBJECTIVE numbers?

I would guess the only one that could would be TVA as they are shipping the quantity and tracking DOA's or other returnable warranty issues. I see your an engineer and yet you take subjective comments and no comparative numbers to make such a statement. Is Samsung responsible for third party screwing up shipping or damage to the product? That's a shipping event not the manufacturer.

Yes, issues are posted but there are hundreds of people taking delivery on these sets that are posting nothing. To be honest I sure would like to see TVA post the Shipments/Received and Warranty issues rather than subjective statements. I have a 6768 on the horizon and would like to see those numbers because the people most likely to VENT are those with a bad experience. Yes, it concerns me but this has occurred with every model of TV I've seen on this Forum the past 8 months I've been here. Many of the happy folks don't give any feedback or some people just come in here for advice and then we never hear anything again until something goes haywire.

Would be nice if TVA could put our minds at ease with real numbers though. Some of these issues being posted are old news and BS too bad I can't blame Samsung for not making the coffee when I wake either. Legacy engineering (especially for a third party device) creates Legacy liability and Samsung is smart to stay away from trying to make this TV compliant with everything on the planet - how could they be responsible for someone using an outdated AVR that isn't their product or people that may not be connecting the cables correctly or using s-video and such?

If you think this is so bad you should have seen the JVC PB - we couldn't get but a few reviews after weeks and most postings weren't very good but with this PB I have 12 pages of glowing/positve reviews copied to get rid of the chatter in between. I'm more concerned with the screw-ups with the shippers than anything else. Besides got a 5 star warranty to return if it's screwed up and won't hesitate.

Hey! - TVA how are the Numbers of SHipments versus Warranty/DOA's? :D

I had the same thing periodically on my 6178, also on dark areas. It also happened on HD content, mine from a Motorola 6412.

It never happened on DVD (HDMI or component) or s-video inputs.

I attributed it to the source material as it was not a constant thing. I noticed it more when the set had been on for longer periods of time, as I've been burning the set in by running it 12 hours a day before my ISF calibration. It gradually lessened over time by itself. I just had my set ISF calibrated yesterday and I've seen no more of this since, but I will watch for it.

It is possible that our problems are different, but they sure do sound and look alike. I'd doubt that it is due to the set if it only occurs with one or a few sources and is not associated with a particular input type. This is definitely the place to discuss it!





This is OTA HD and it happened on Letterman as well on CBS (Digital, but not HD)which was also OTA.

Thus, cables can't be the problem, and the channel itself can't be the problem.

Also, I didn't see it on Law and Order SVU earlier in the evening, so I'm kind of thinking something might be messed up in the set, since sometimes it can be worse. I probably haven't watched enough DVD material yet to definitely state that this won't be a problem there either, and that is through HDMI.

I thought DTV and SD where the same thing, unless DTV is HDTV??? SO theres, HDTV, SD, DTV, AANNDD Analouge through cable??? :confused:
P.S. Is your 56" a 1080P Sammy?

Sorry if that was confusing. I have a 56" 1080p Samsung, and I am watching programming in two ways. OTA Digital TV (which includes SD and HD - it depends on what is being broadcast, though I suppose some of it could be ED - enhanced definition) and analog SD (the S-Video Output from my SD DirecTiVo). My comments still stand, though. The picture quality of the evening news (which is not in HD), for example, over the OTA digital TV broadcast is phenominal. Compare this to the analog s-video signal that comes from my DirecTiVo, which pretty much sucks as I said before.

My point is that once you've been watching digital broadcast TV, it is difficult to watch SD content, particularly on such a large screen.

You are not alone. Like FLAPilot, I also have similar issue, but only with HDMI inputs. Mine has lots of red blotching and it looks to get worse as time goes by. If I switch on the TV in the morning, it will be just fine for sometime (maybe 5 minutes). I have the samsung support person coming in tomorrow.

Thanks,

let me know how it goes with the samsung support people.

The Denon 2910 and 3910 also have a Faroudja chip, and MUCH less MB'ing than the 1910. It's not quite so simple. (I had a 1910 and agree with you; have had a 2910 for over 6 months.)

I agree, but the MB'ing is much worse with the HL-Rxxx8 sets. I used to have an HLP and the MB'ing really wasn't that bad with my 1910, but I just switched to the 1080p set and the MB'ing was much much worse.

Millerwill - Can you Quantify your remarks with OBJECTIVE numbers?

Hey, Westa, I think you've jumped on the wrong guy--I haven't commented on anything (I don't think!) that you are responding to.

But since I'm here, let me comment on someone's question above about 'so many sammy 1080p's having defects', or something like that. To my mind, the number has been incredibly small. We've heard from no more than half a dozen persons who have had problems, and I imagine that TVA has delivered a hundred or more sets by now. And one can be pretty sure that we hear about ALL the ones that have problems, and that most people that don't have problems don't see the need to report that. Just my view.

Another possibility on the spots is the cable box. I had a nice long talk about the state of cable boxes with an ISF guy yesterday. Basically, they can introduce problems (eg. bad SD over HDMI) as they are cheaply made. After all, hey are owned by cable companies and rented to the public and there are few incentives for quality. Also, there are essentially no good options - you usually cannot go out and buy a quality unit for use with Comcast -which is even more reason to skimp.

I agree, but the MB'ing is much worse with the HL-Rxxx8 sets. I used to have an HLP and the MB'ing really wasn't that bad with my 1910, but I just switched to the 1080p set and the MB'ing was much much worse.

OK, this is something I will really watch for when I get a 1080p set. Thanks for cluing me that the MB problem may be worse on it than the hlp. If so, I will try to talk Magnolia (where my tv and dvd came from, and the new tv will also come from) into taking the 2910 back in exchange for something else (even though it's well past the 30 trial period).

Yet I still hopeful that the 2910 may be OK. The one bit (of perhaps frail!) support for this hope is that tonydeluce has found his 3910 to do pretty well with his new 1080p.

ISF with HLR XX68/78 sets

Has anyone else had their set ISFed yet? Briefly, the results are great with far more detail particularly in dark scenes. Also, my spot problem has disappeared, at least so far.

Have you tried SD over component? Some have indicated that it is better this way. Would be a nusance, of course, to have to change inputs for SD, but it the difference were dramatic it might be worth it. (BTW, you and I are on the same wave length re viewing distance; I like the 'full emersion' effect too!)

no I don't component cables anymore and I want to keep a purely digital
path all the way to my eyeballs :-)

no I don't component cables anymore and I want to keep a purely digital
path all the way to my eyeballs :-)

I understand your preference for 'all digital', as is mine. It's just that several people have reported better SD via component. But if you don't have these cables, then you obviously can't test it! Thanks anyway; maybe someone else can try to confirm (or refute) this theory.

I certainly won't flame you for any opinion but I think it is simply too soon to come to conclusions. Every piece of equipment I've owned - especially since I "like" to buy the latest, newly released stuff - seems to have lots of discussion. Many of the initial concerns fade over time or are only reported by a small minority of people. A few concerns seem to stick with just about everything. Keep in mind we are a self selected group with generally more interest, knowledge and opinions which sometimes leads to noticing and obsessing on the smallest of imperfections. If we judged friends and spouses (or ourselves!) by similar standards, our HT stuff would be all we would be left with!




For those of you in production, are we seeing an unusually high rate of "issues" with the introduction of the 68/78 series?

Flame me if you must, but it seems like a large number of new owners are having problems, of some sort: DOA, spots, HDMI, interfacing, just to name a few.

Is this to be expected or does Samsung have some re-engineering to do?

I understand your preference for 'all digital', as is mine. It's just that several people have reported better SD via component. But if you don't have these cables, then you obviously can't test it! Thanks anyway; maybe someone else can try to confirm (or refute) this theory.

This is probably because there source is analog cable that much to converted
to digital. I have Dish Network which is all Digital...

Guys, I have a 4-5 yr old Mits 65869 65" RP HDTV. It takes signals of 480i, 480p and 1080i. I have a SA 8300HD DVR and I have it upconvert everything to 1080i. I am strongly thinking about getting a 6168 in the coming months.

My question is has anyone had a similar type TV and upgraded to the new 1080p Sammys? Have they found that the PQ has increased for them? I like the picture that I get on mine, but I also want some of the new technology and inputs that the new sets offer. I understand that if someone had one of the older 720p DLPs that the increase to 1080p would increase the PQ, but I have a 1080i RPTV with the older technology and wonder if anyone has seen a significant improvement in PQ with the new 1080p sets? Thanks.

TVA has 2 or 3 extra 5688s available for immediate sale!

Check out the TVA PB thread if your interested!!!

Another thing to keep in mind is that Samsung apparently can sell large quantities of these sets. I've heard it said that they can sell more than they can make, though I'm not sure I agree with this. Samsung is a consumer electronics company which means that using a 10 cent part over a $1 part is often a good business decision - even if some problems are introduced by some of these decisions. Here at AVS we as a community subscribe to a "custom" philosophy as I would probably personally choose a $5 part over the others! Thus, Samsungs are really not "made" for us even though most of us cannot/will not spend enough for a custom HT installation ($$$$) or even a higher grade unit like the Qualia. And certainly even those choices have their issues.

Guys, I have a 4-5 yr old Mits 65869 65" RP HDTV. It takes signals of 480i, 480p and 1080i. I have a SA 8300HD DVR and I have it upconvert everything to 1080i. I am strongly thinking about getting a 6168 in the coming months.

My question is has anyone had a similar type TV and upgraded to the new 1080p Sammys? Have they found that the PQ has increased for them? I like the picture that I get on mine, but I also want some of the new technology and inputs that the new sets offer. I understand that if someone had one of the older 720p DLPs that the increase to 1080p would increase the PQ, but I have a 1080i RPTV with the older technology and wonder if anyone has seen a significant improvement in PQ with the new 1080p sets? Thanks.

Yes. I had a 55 in. 7in. CRTs Top-of-the-line Toshiba Cinema Series three years
ago and I really like the picture when calibrated but there is absolutely no
comparision to the new 1080p DLPs...

Yes. I had a 55 in. 7in. CRTs Top-of-the-line Toshiba Cinema Series three years
ago and I really like the picture when calibrated but there is absolutely no
comparision to the new 1080p DLPs...

Did it output 1080i?

UCSB: That could very well be the case.

But, most all of our consumer electronics follows a similar delivery chain. And, if it is delivered from China, Korea or Japan, we have to add in the "slow boat" factor.

I don't know how many 100s or 1000s have been delivered, but there does seem to be numerous "issues."

Different Topic: I called Tweeters last week to see when they would have a 6168 in the store to view. They told me that their shipment was in Atlanta and they should have the TVs the end of this week. Checked today, and was told that it would be in another week or two. Wonder what happened.

Also checked Best Buy and Sears today. The salesmen had no idea when they would get the new units.

I feel like I owned one of those Mitsubishis as I lusted for one several years ago but would have been broke and divorced if I had purchased one. Instead, I waited for the Samsungs and started with a HLM series set.

I am very happy so far with my 6178. I believe that these 1080p sets are the biggest jump in technology since the Samsungs came out three or so years ago. Some might argue that one should wait for the second generation of 1080p sets which accept 1080p inputs. There is always some better technology coming if you wait except death, senility, illness etc are also coming which argue for enjoying things now. (Too much philosophy for a HT forum?!)

I'd strongly recommend that you see several of the 68/78s set up in stores and see if you think it is worth the upgrade. By your info, you live in Tampa which should allow easy access to good HT stores.




Guys, I have a 4-5 yr old Mits 65869 65" RP HDTV. It takes signals of 480i, 480p and 1080i. I have a SA 8300HD DVR and I have it upconvert everything to 1080i. I am strongly thinking about getting a 6168 in the coming months.

My question is has anyone had a similar type TV and upgraded to the new 1080p Sammys? Have they found that the PQ has increased for them? I like the picture that I get on mine, but I also want some of the new technology and inputs that the new sets offer. I understand that if someone had one of the older 720p DLPs that the increase to 1080p would increase the PQ, but I have a 1080i RPTV with the older technology and wonder if anyone has seen a significant improvement in PQ with the new 1080p sets? Thanks.

ISF with HLR XX68/78 sets

Has anyone else had their set ISFed yet? Briefly, the results are great with far more detail particularly in dark scenes. Also, my spot problem has disappeared, at least so far.
Could you post the settings for the various inputs? It'd be very interesting to see how it matched up to the settings out of the box. I realize that your settings will not be that useful for other sets, but the comparison will be useful. I plan on getting my set calibrated in the next month or so and will post the results after it has been done.

Interestingly, these 68/78 sets are made in Mexico. Perhaps the supply chain is different.


UCSB: That could very well be the case.

But, most all of our consumer electronics follows a similar delivery chain. And, if it is delivered from China, Korea or Japan, we have to add in the "slow boat" factor.

...

My point is that once you've been watching digital broadcast TV, it is difficult to watch SD content, particularly on such a large screen.
I agree. I turned off all my analog channels that had a DTV-SD equivelant. Whats agrevating is the mixed resolutions of the content. Much of the tapped stuff is in old SD, as well as many ads. Its just about as bad as the good old days when content switched between BW and Color.

I feel like I owned one of those Mitsubishis as I lusted for one several years ago but would have been broke and divorced if I had purchased one. Instead, I waited for the Samsungs and started with a HLM series set.

I am very happy so far with my 6178. I believe that these 1080p sets are the biggest jump in technology since the Samsungs came out three or so years ago. Some might argue that one should wait for the second generation of 1080p sets which accept 1080p inputs. There is always some better technology coming if you wait except death, senility, illness etc are also coming which argue for enjoying things now. (Too much philosophy for a HT forum?!)

I'd strongly recommend that you see several of the 68/78s set up in stores and see if you think it is worth the upgrade. By your info, you live in Tampa which should allow easy access to good HT stores.

None of the area stores have the new xx68 yet as I will definitely check them out. I honestly don't care about the 1080p input yet since there isn't anyone producing in that format (and I don't plan on getting a PS3. I will get a Xbox360). By the time 1080p becomes widespread by the networks I will be ready to upgrade again. Thanks for the input.

This is probably because there source is analog cable that much to converted
to digital. I have Dish Network which is all Digital...

I don't remember what sources people were using who liked component for SD. (My source is Comcast cable.) In any event, when I have my new 1080p set I can just try HDMI vs component to see if SD is any different over the two. Hopefully Comcast will soon have all their SD channels fully digital, which would seem to suggest that HDMI would be preferable, but who knows.

Well I have had my 5668W set for one week now and so far no real big complaints. I do see rainbows frequently on my set (never saw rainbows when looking at sets in show rooms...), but they honestly don't bother me.

Another problem that I have noticed was when using the component outputs from both a normal comcast hd cable box and the new dual tuner dvr box that I just received today. After a while (maybe 20 minutes or so) of viewing, artifacts will pop up on the screen. They typically aren't noticable, but in dark scenes you can usually see specs pop up time to time. It does this on both component inputs, and it makes no difference if I have the box set to 720P or 1080I. You can also see the artifacts on the screen still after turning the box off, but as soon as you unplug the component cables from the box it goes away so it almost seems as if the box is still out putting a signal when it is turned off. The artifacts are just like one would experience with a defective video card in a PC (think green / pink specs), and I have not encountered any artifacts of any kind when using my xbox on the same component inputs.... So my guess is that it is some sort of compatability issue between the motorola box and my set (firmware issue maybe...)? I have not had a chance to test this with an HDMI cable yet... Also if I use the TV's integrated tuner to tune into the few select HD channels that it picks up, no artifacts pop up.

It may be related to timing, but for the most part some of the lip sync issues I was having with my previous comcast HD box have been minimized with the new DVR box... This may be premature for me to report this as I have only had the new box for a few hours, but so far lip sync (most notably on discovery hd) is minimal... Even with the original box it wasn't TOO bad, but a few select channels made it pretty obvious that things weren't perfectly in sync...

Right now I am using my PC as a DVD player and have it connected to the set with a VGA cable. For the most part the image is really good, but detail level in darker lit scenes seems a bit washed out when compared to an HD source. When I get a chance I'll pop in my avia disk and do some more advanced calibrations.. I am using the latest nvdvd decoder and ffdshow..

I am a DLP newbie and was wondering if you can adjust overscan in the service menus? I have adjusted overscan on my old Toshiba 42H83 in the service menus, and was wondering if the same can be done on the new Samsung sets. My goal is to hopefully minimize the overscan on the PC input when having 1:1 pixel mapping... More importantly can you adjust overscan for each input independently?

Overall I am pretty happy with the set... No major problems yet (fingers crossed), and I hope to get things tweaked more in the next week or so to make things even better... Has anyone had a chance to compare some of these newer upconverting DVD players with the newer 68/78 sets to a dedicated HTPC with a decent decoder + FFDShow? Just wondering if black levels would improve with DVD playback if I purchased a newer upconverting standalone player....

Guys, I have a 4-5 yr old Mits 65869 65" RP HDTV. It takes signals of 480i, 480p and 1080i. I have a SA 8300HD DVR and I have it upconvert everything to 1080i. I am strongly thinking about getting a 6168 in the coming months.

My question is has anyone had a similar type TV and upgraded to the new 1080p Sammys? Have they found that the PQ has increased for them? I like the picture that I get on mine, but I also want some of the new technology and inputs that the new sets offer. I understand that if someone had one of the older 720p DLPs that the increase to 1080p would increase the PQ, but I have a 1080i RPTV with the older technology and wonder if anyone has seen a significant improvement in PQ with the new 1080p sets? Thanks.
Your current 1080 TV just handles 1080 signals. It does not display 1080 content in its native form. Find out what your real resolution is (it could be 720, 768, 500 lines or any wierd internal line format). That is what you will be comparing to the new 'real' 1080 sets. Its amazing how the industry has fooled the public into thinking that just because they accept a certain signal resolution that they can claim they are such and such a resolution set. This is a common question that I hear from many people.

Note: It appears my statement about not doing 1080 for this CRT based TV may not be correct. The owner would have to check that out for sure. On TV's I have had before they very rarely state the actual display resolution but only the capable connection resolution and/or the processing resolution.

Your current 1080 TV just handles 1080 signals. It does not display 1080 content in its native form. Find out what your real resolution is (it could be 720, 768, 500 lines or any wierd internal line format). That is what you will be comparing to the new 'real' 1080 sets. Its amazing how the industry has fooled the public into thinking that just because they accept a certain signal resolution that they can claim they are such and such a resolution set. This is a common question that I hear from many people.

His set is not fixed pixel so it mostly likely will do 480p and 1080i ( two frames
of 540 ). Some CRT RPs actually do 540p and 1080i to make it easier
to implement. He actually has been enjoying higher resolution than most
of use who have owned 720 microdisplays :-)

I may be in HDTV heaven, but I might be in SD heck (allowed to say **** on this thread?) too, LOL! :D :D :D :)

P.S: 10ft away from a 61" is as far away as my room will allow, should I get a 56" instead to be safe when watching SD?I would get the 61" even at 8'

UCSB: That could very well be the case.

But, most all of our consumer electronics follows a similar delivery chain. And, if it is delivered from China, Korea or Japan, we have to add in the "slow boat" factor.

I don't know how many 100s or 1000s have been delivered, but there does seem to be numerous "issues."

Different Topic: I called Tweeters last week to see when they would have a 6168 in the store to view. They told me that their shipment was in Atlanta and they should have the TVs the end of this week. Checked today, and was told that it would be in another week or two. Wonder what happened.

Also checked Best Buy and Sears today. The salesmen had no idea when they would get the new units.My Tweeter South of Chicago has a HLR6168 in their showroom.

His set is not fixed pixel so it mostly likely will do 480p and 1080i ( two frames
of 540 ). Some CRT RPs actually do 540p and 1080i to make it easier
to implement. He actually has been enjoying higher resolution than most
of use who have owned 720 microdisplays :-)

Correct. It will display 480i, 480p and 1080i. If you set the DVR box to show the signal in its native format, The TV will go through this change as it tries to display a different resolution. The screen will go black, followed by wavey lines and zig-zag lines. A few seconds later it is displaying the picture in the signals native format and, will display the format resolution in the upper left corner of the screen. If you are constantly changing between the 3 different resolutions as you channel surf, it gets quite annoying. Thank god the DVR has options to upconvert everything to a specific resolution (1080i for me).

I don't remember what sources people were using who liked component for SD. (My source is Comcast cable.) In any event, when I have my new 1080p set I can just try HDMI vs component to see if SD is any different over the two. Hopefully Comcast will soon have all their SD channels fully digital, which would seem to suggest that HDMI would be preferable, but who knows.

I'm on Comcast also and plan to try the internal tuners and CableCard ... I expect them to outperform the Motorola 6412 by a noticable margin.

Added: Of course I'll be keeping my 6412 also.

On my 56", SD absolutely sucks through S-Video on my DirecTiVo. That being said, it's not the TV's fault. When you scale analog TV like that, it's just going to happen that way unfortunately. Also, when you're switching back and forth from DTV signals and SD signals, you are going to notice it when it looks bad, and DTV simply looks normal to you so SD looks like garbage. Hard to explain I guess.

I also have been using S-Video with my DirectTivo and 6168 (until my HD-Tivo gets here).
I was actually surprised how good almost all the SD channels are and some of them (HB0, Discovery, PBS) are stunningly good.

I'm on Comcast also and plan to try the internal tuners and CableCard ... I expect them to outperform the Motorola 6412 by a noticable margin.


Very much look forward to hearing your report. (Would be interesting also if there is any diff between HDMI and component connections, esp for SD.)

I just received my 6168. My manual is for the xx78 sets. I know internally the sets are the same but did that happen to anyone else? How do people like the screen? It reminds me of the 42" set I saw in the store. I didn't notice the sparkling dots on the 61" 1080P set I saw in the store. I only saw them on the 42". But they seem prevalent on the screen of my 6168. I might just be too close to it, but even at 4 feet at the store I don't remember it looking like this. Tonight I will get it on the stand and will be able to look at it from 10fett awy instead of 5 so maybe it will look better tonight.

and I don't plan on getting a PS3.

Sites are reporting it may not come out until 2007, so by then you may be buying a new set any way.

Sites are reporting it may not come out until 2007, so by then you may be buying a new set any way.

True. By then I wonder what will be the hot new feature in HDTVs will be?

I also have been using S-Video with my DirectTivo and 6168 (until my HD-Tivo gets here).
I was actually surprised how good almost all the SD channels are and some of them (HB0, Discovery, PBS) are stunningly good.

Then I need to get some better cables or something.

The specs/splotching appear to be following a slightly tilted series of horizontal rows ... did you observe this patterning in other scenes, or are the rows just some function of the pinstriping on his jacket? FLApilot, what about yours? Random or organized?

Here are two pictures. One is Component, one is HDMI. The HDMI shot has the red streaks. Looks different than clorox's, but similar enough.

Ok, I'm just confused!!! :confused: I get Bight House Networks cable, I have digital cable (yes, I know that not every channel is digital). What are all the formats different channels come in??? ie. DTV, SD, HD, Analouge. Is there any great web site to explaining this??? Or one that even tells me which channels are digital, etc??? :confused:

His set is not fixed pixel so it mostly likely will do 480p and 1080i ( two frames
of 540 ). Some CRT RPs actually do 540p and 1080i to make it easier
to implement. He actually has been enjoying higher resolution than most
of use who have owned 720 microdisplays :-)

Since I have been enjoying 1080 on older technology, that is why I have been asking this question. Will the newer technology and newer inputs (I only have 1 HD component input) be worth the upgrade? Anyone else out there upgraded from my situation?

Who should I call first, TVA or Samsung? What are my options? I assume I can just have TVA replace the set, but if it can be fixed by a Samsung technician, why go through the hassle of boxing the set up, right?

*sigh*

Clorox, I called both at once and set both balls in motion. First to my set wins and turned the other one off. In this case, TVA beat Samsung because of a lack of parts. Call both and tell TVA to send a new TV and tell Samsung to come fix. Once they hook you up with a technician, find out how long for a part. TVA turn time was one week and Samsung was "indefinite".

Fry’s electronics in Atlanta unboxed their Samsung HLR 5668W last night.

It looked pretty good right out of the box with HDNet from DTV. They were also connecting an upconverting Samsung DVD player to it. I didn’t get to see anything play through it though. They have 3 in stock. The price had four zero as the first two digits.

Sean seemed to be the most 1080p knowlegable sales guy on duty. Nice guy too. If I could afford 4 grand right now there would only be two left.

Plus tax...or powerbuy for one grand less. Your call and your pocketbook. Keep commerce alive!.

Remember many of these sets have received a lot of shipping handling. In many (most) cases up to four shippers may have been used. With transfers between trucks and load balancing in a truck there was probably a lot of handing. There is no way to evaluate reliability from the isolated reports we have, most owners are probably just watching their sets and no longer reading AVS.

I agree with UCSB and I have one of the problems. Your hear about because we have the problems and want to 1) make sure its a problem and 2) let everyone know what that problem was and the solution. These have many boards, cards, engines, etc that are pretty sensitive. The monkey basically threw mine off the truck on the way to the door and he was a mom and pop delivery guy and had to be the third or fourth person to handle the set. Patience is a virtue and the problems are rare and normal under the circumstances.

Clorox, I called both at once and set both balls in motion. First to my set wins and turned the other one off. In this case, TVA beat Samsung because of a lack of parts. Call both and tell TVA to send a new TV and tell Samsung to come fix. Once they hook you up with a technician, find out how long for a part. TVA turn time was one week and Samsung was "indefinite".

So I decided what I'd do is call Samsung first, which I did. Talked to a level 2 and they're going to get back to me with someone who can come look at my set. I e-mailed them the picture, so that should help. Then I'll see what the situation is on parts and what needs to be done.

If that doesn't go my way, I'll be calling TVA and have them send me a new set. I'm really not looking forward to keeping all of the TV packaging around, but if that's what it's going to take, that's what it's going to take.

Do you think I should call TVA anyway and just let them know that I had to call Samsung and that if Samsung can't make this problem go away with a quickness that I'd like to have my set exchanged?

Yetch, I hope I don't have these color issues when my TV arrives :S

- D

Here are two pictures. One is Component, one is HDMI. The HDMI shot has the red streaks. Looks different than clorox's, but similar enough.

While you are waiting to get your set replaced, it would be a good time to take some temp readings in your new cabinet. Let the set run for hours so the temp can stabilize. As far as I know, no one has investigated how much heat these new sets produce. Make any cabinet adjustments before your replacement set arrives.

I noticed the picture has improved with my 6168 after having the set on for a couple of hours. It's is much better now.

UCSB, I just put a digital thermometer in there and will check that out. Thanks for the craniums up! Will post results when it finishes rising! It is calibrated with the mother ship!

Clorox, I would call TVA also. That is what I did and they beat Samsung due to a lack of parts. Sad to send a whole TV back, but Samsung takes that risk by not populating the parts inventory. Somebody is going to get a great reconditioned set!

Scott

I confirmed my order Monday but still have not seen a charge to my card. I was told it would ship the next day (Tuesday) and a tracking number would be emailed to me. I have not received a tracking number either. I called TVA but good luck getting anyone to answer during the PB. Any idea how long before it will really ship?

Let me just check again...if my TV recieves 1080i the sammy will upconvert it to 1080p with out loosing detail?

After playing with my set more it almost seems that any time I send 720P / 1080I through the component inputs I get the artifacts to come up on the screen. I reported earlier that I was only having the problem with my cable box, and that everything worked perfectly with my xbox with the same component inputs... Well the games that were working perfectly were 480P games... After playing Soul Calibur 3 for 10 minutes or so (720P game) the same artifacts came up on the screen... You can only really see the artifacts in dark scenes but they are definitely there... Will have to either call TVA or Samsung on this later in the week...

OK, this is something I will really watch for when I get a 1080p set. Thanks for cluing me that the MB problem may be worse on it than the hlp. If so, I will try to talk Magnolia (where my tv and dvd came from, and the new tv will also come from) into taking the 2910 back in exchange for something else (even though it's well past the 30 trial period).

Yet I still hopeful that the 2910 may be OK. The one bit (of perhaps frail!) support for this hope is that tonydeluce has found his 3910 to do pretty well with his new 1080p.From my experience with DLP sets, the degree of macroblocking and banding artifacts varies from set to set and light-engine to light-engine. It has a LOT to do with calibration. A good calibration, using the right gamma curve and the FULL range of contrast, can make a world of difference, reducing macroblocking from wildly unacceptable to only mildly and occasionally distracting.

To evaluate the performance of any set fairly, before spending any money on a professional calibration, I always do a full calibration by eye with Avia/DVE and a D65 reference. If you know what you're doing, you can get the set close enough to perfection to make fair comparisons.

Gary

After playing with my set more it almost seems that any time I send 720P / 1080I through the component inputs I get the artifacts to come up on the screen. I reported earlier that I was only having the problem with my cable box, and that everything worked perfectly with my xbox with the same component inputs... Well the games that were working perfectly were 480P games... After playing Soul Calibur 3 for 10 minutes or so (720P game) the same artifacts came up on the screen... You can only really see the artifacts in dark scenes but they are definitely there... Will have to either call TVA or Samsung on this later in the week...

Side question: Did SC play well or was there lag?

So I decided what I'd do is call Samsung first, which I did. Talked to a level 2 and they're going to get back to me with someone who can come look at my set. I e-mailed them the picture, so that should help. Then I'll see what the situation is on parts and what needs to be done.

If that doesn't go my way, I'll be calling TVA and have them send me a new set. I'm really not looking forward to keeping all of the TV packaging around, but if that's what it's going to take, that's what it's going to take.

Do you think I should call TVA anyway and just let them know that I had to call Samsung and that if Samsung can't make this problem go away with a quickness that I'd like to have my set exchanged?

I saw FLAPilot's pictures and I see the exact same thing on my HDMI input. I have the samsung rep coming in tomorrow. I did notify TVA and let them know that I may be returning the set for a new one depending on how it turns out tomorrow. They made a note in my account and said that I can exchange my set even if it is beyond 30 days. Great service from TVA and Samsung!
Also, since the guy is going to bring the new TV and then pick your old one, why not use the same box. I am planning to do that. Get the new TV out of the box, put the old TV in the new box with the help of the driver!

Ok, I'm just confused!!! :confused: I get Bight House Networks cable, I have digital cable (yes, I know that not every channel is digital). What are all the formats different channels come in??? ie. DTV, SD, HD, Analouge. Is there any great web site to explaining this??? Or one that even tells me which channels are digital, etc??? :confused:

It is pretty straight forward, let me explain by going through my Comcast cable line-up.

Channels 1 - 100 or so, these are standard definition (SD) analog channels. If you connected up a standard CRT TV they would all be found and displayed. They tend to look rough.

Channels 100 - 600 or so, these are standard definition (SD) digital channels. These are digital channels that can look better than the analog channels. Although, the broadcaster can send poor quality material on these also, generally at their best they can look good.

Channels 700 - 800, these are high definition (HD) digital channels. Clear and stunning (generally).

Side question: Did SC play well or was there lag?

I didn't notice any lag... I am going to try and hopefully test the HDMI inputs before making any phone calls so I can get a better overall idea with what is going on with the set.

It is pretty straight forward, let me explain by going through my Comcast cable line-up.

Channels 1 - 100 or so, these are standard definition (SD) analog channels. If you connected up a standard CRT TV they would all be found and displayed. They tend to look rough.

Channels 100 - 600 or so, these are standard definition (SD) digital channels. These are digital channels that can look better than the analog channels. Although, the broadcaster can send poor quality material on these also, generally at their best they can look good.

Channels 700 - 800, these are high definition (HD) digital channels. Clear and stunning (generally).
Thanks Bill!!! I messed up and thought that SD stood for "Standard Digital" not "Standard Definition". :(
...But I do have another question: so channels 1-100 are 480i and channels 100-600 are 480P?

While you are waiting to get your set replaced, it would be a good time to take some temp readings in your new cabinet. Let the set run for hours so the temp can stabilize. As far as I know, no one has investigated how much heat these new sets produce. Make any cabinet adjustments before your replacement set arrives.

UCSB, After placing the thermometer in the cabinet for 40 minutes, the temp outside is 77.0 and inside is 82.8. :D I think well within the realm of doable. Now to check this evening where the AVR is and where my DVR 942 and 950 are!

There is a huge amount of information on this thread. Re the best way to set up as a standalone unit (using internal speakers) versus using a receiver/separate amplifier system (HDMI or DVI) to avoid sync/lag issues. Use of a DVD player to get the best 1080P result (especially with the the popular Sammy 950). And many other significant matters.
I would consider starting the ball rolling, but compared to the knowledge of may people here I would make many mistakes and I haven't received my 6168 yet so I don't have hands on experieince. Any chance we could produce a sticky?

Nother question!!! When playing a DVD, should I make the DVD de-interlace 480i to 480p, then have my "Sammy" upconvert 480P to 1080P. Or should I make my DVD player output 480i then let my "Sammy" deinterlace and upconvert at the same time?

The specs/splotching appear to be following a slightly tilted series of horizontal rows ... did you observe this patterning in other scenes, or are the rows just some function of the pinstriping on his jacket? FLApilot, what about yours? Random or organized?

They appear to be an outcropping of the colored object and is getting worse with each change of source. I think the card is dying rapidly!

Here are two pictures. One is Component, one is HDMI. The HDMI shot has the red streaks. Looks different than clorox's, but similar enough.

Wow, that sucks!

:(

straight from the womb!!!

I'd like to use my first post to thank everyone who's offered their advice and their personal knowledge of the "new" Samsung HLR5668W. I still can't believe my wife allowed me to buy it. Still waiting for it to be shipped, but I'm reading your posts, and benefiting very much from all of them. Again, I thank you for helping me make what now feels like an easy decision.

UCSB, After placing the thermometer in the cabinet for 40 minutes, the temp outside is 77.0 and inside is 82.8. :D I think well within the realm of doable. Now to check this evening where the AVR is and where my DVR 942 and 950 are!

You really need to let the set run about 5 hours because the temp will continue rising for the first several hours. The difference you are seeing at 5 degrees is way to low ... it probably will come up by another 10 to 20 degrees. The TV continues to heat up and so does the cabinet.

Wow, that sucks!

:(
Sure does.

I like your sig line, sharpknife! :)

Anyone get HDMI 2 to work with a Harmony remote so it directly goes to that input? For the 6168 it lists HDMI and a DVI input. It will switch to the HDMI and I thought maybe DVI was actually HDMI2 but it isn't.

Nother question!!! When playing a DVD, should I make the DVD de-interlace 480i to 480p, then have my "Sammy" upconvert 480P to 1080P. Or should I make my DVD player output 480i then let my "Sammy" deinterlace and upconvert at the same time?
Try both ways... go with the one that looks best to you.

The PQ will be a function of the quality of the deinterlacer/scaler in the DVD player vs. the deinterlacer/scaler in the Sammy. If you have a "cheap" dvd player the Sammy would be expected to do the best job. But you never know... Best option is thus to try both ways and go with your preference.

Try both ways... go with the one that looks best to you.

The PQ will be a function of the quality of the deinterlacer/scaler in the DVD player vs. the deinterlacer/scaler in the Sammy. If you have a "cheap" dvd player the Sammy would be expected to do the best job. But you never know... Best option is thus to try both ways and go with your preference.
Thanks Don, I have and Onkyo SP-502. It should be alright. But, it's not a Denon. ...Nother Question...lol...can and HDMI slot accept dual-link? If not, what type of slot is it called. Does the Sammy have it (probably not...)?

...can and HDMI slot accept dual-link? If not, what type of slot is it called. Does the Sammy have it (probably not...)?
Not sure what you are describing as "dual-link." I'm not aware of the term "dual-link" in any way associated with HDMI, thus I'd venture the answer is no. The "HDMI slot" is actually a connection port. The only thing that will fit there is the end of an HDMI cable or appropriate adapter/converter.

If by "dual-link" you are referring to a two-way cable card then the answer is no. The Sammy has a cable card slot but it is for the current one-way cards.

You really need to let the set run about 5 hours because the temp will continue rising for the first several hours. The difference you are seeing at 5 degrees is way to low ... it probably will come up by another 10 to 20 degrees. The TV continues to heat up and so does the cabinet.

Still running. TV has been on about 2 hours and the thermometer in about an hour and half. Will let it go the rest of the evening and see what it is up to. Just went past 84. Will elt you know.

How hot is too hot...do you think?

Not sure what you are describing as "dual-link." I'm not aware of the term "dual-link" in any way associated with HDMI, thus I'd venture the answer is no. The "HDMI slot" is actually a connection port. The only thing that will fit there is the end of an HDMI cable or appropriate adapter/converter.

If by "dual-link" you are referring to a two-way cable card then the answer is no. The Sammy has a cable card slot but it is for the current one-way cards.
No, I'm not talking about CableCard and I know HDMI is a connector (I'll fix it, thanks) I thought there was a new HDMI cable coming out or something, must have been confusing it with CableCard!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :)

You can have Dual-link DVI, but AFAIK, no "dual link" HDMI standard has been made. The PS3 is supposed to support two HDMI out ports, but thats for outputing one PS3 to two HDTVs (since it can have up to seven controllers - 7 people on one screen is a bit much, but 7 people spread over two TVs is more reasonable).

Still running. TV has been on about 2 hours and the thermometer in about an hour and half. Will let it go the rest of the evening and see what it is up to. Just went past 84. Will elt you know.

How hot is too hot...do you think?
I'm no expert, but I think that your cooling fans may burn when they're on for an extended period of time. I don't think it is an issue about how hot it gets. Just about how long it takes until your fans quit??? Just an idea.

You can have Dual-link DVI, but AFAIK, no "dual link" HDMI standard has been made. The PS3 is supposed to support two HDMI out ports, but thats for outputing one PS3 to two HDTVs (since it can have up to seven controllers - 7 people on one screen is a bit much, but 7 people spread over two TVs is more reasonable).
So your saying that it's not the cable, just if the chip can merge two links into one stream? too bad...I was mistaken by dual-link DVI. (errg my memory....lol)

From my experience with DLP sets, the degree of macroblocking and banding artifacts varies from set to set and light-engine to light-engine. It has a LOT to do with calibration. A good calibration, using the right gamma curve and the FULL range of contrast, can make a world of difference, reducing macroblocking from wildly unacceptable to only mildly and occasionally distracting.

To evaluate the performance of any set fairly, before spending any money on a professional calibration, I always do a full calibration by eye with Avia/DVE and a D65 reference. If you know what you're doing, you can get the set close enough to perfection to make fair comparisons.

Gary

Thanks for the comments. I have indeed spent quite a bit of time with DVE on my hlp6163, setting black level and white level, and did adjust gamma (as recommended by htwaits). Perhaps that is why I don't find much MB problem with my 2910; or also, as you say, maybe I'm just lucky with this particular set! (It's been so good I kinda hate to see it go.)

You can have Dual-link DVI, but AFAIK, no "dual link" HDMI standard has been made. The PS3 is supposed to support two HDMI out ports, but thats for outputing one PS3 to two HDTVs (since it can have up to seven controllers - 7 people on one screen is a bit much, but 7 people spread over two TVs is more reasonable).
So your saying that it's not the cable, just if the chip can merge two links into one stream? too bad...I was mistaken by dual-link DVI. (errg my memory....lol).
nother question: if I input 1080i to my sammy, can i make it deinterlace? If so, will this effect the resolution???
nother question: I'm a newb to this forum, what in the heck is macro blocking? Is it some form of copyright protection???

Still running. TV has been on about 2 hours and the thermometer in about an hour and half. Will let it go the rest of the evening and see what it is up to. Just went past 84. Will elt you know.

How hot is too hot...do you think?

I don't know what is too hot, but I think is important to understand the spread with the room temp. If that works out to be 15 degrees then you know if it is 80 degrees in the room it is probably 95 in the cabinet. For my installation, I would not want the operating temp to get above 95 degrees or so. Nothing scientific ... it just seems logical to take steps to keep it close to room temp.

anyone test out lag on xbox games with the 6168 seriously yet? i havent been keeping up with the forum just wondering if there is a definate answer yet

Nother question!!! When playing a DVD, should I make the DVD de-interlace 480i to 480p, then have my "Sammy" upconvert 480P to 1080P. Or should I make my DVD player output 480i then let my "Sammy" deinterlace and upconvert at the same time?
You will need to test that yourself. Some players are better at that than the TV and vice versa. The reason many of us went to the 950 was to get as close to 1080p as we could. We're trying to run them at 1080i so all the TV has to do is deinterlace it.

I have a old Sony that outputs only 480i via component and it creates a great picture on the HLR5668W. Cheaper DVD players at that setting may be terrible. UMMV.

6168 with SA 8300HD DVR...

Newbie Question... When I pull up the settings menu for the 8300, and select "output options" should I only choose 1080i to output from the 8300, or should I select any of the others as well? (480i, 480p, 720p). I can't seem to access the system(?) (or setup?) menu that you pull up with the 8300 turned off so I'm guessing this is the only way to tell the 8300 waht to pass to the 6168.

By the way... just had this for a day now and IT IS WONDERFUL!! PQ on the HD channels absolutely blows me away! Will report more soon.

Thanks!!

anyone test out lag on xbox games with the 6168 seriously yet? i havent been keeping up with the forum just wondering if there is a definate answer yet

I have also been following this thread intently, have preordered a xx68 through the PB, and am also anxiously waiting for reports on how these sets perform with Xbox. Anyone who already has a xx68 and can report on how games play on it (with definitive testing for lag) will be GREATLY appreciated!!!!!

Thanks. :)

I'm no expert, but I think that your cooling fans may burn when they're on for an extended period of time. I don't think it is an issue about how hot it gets. Just about how long it takes until your fans quit??? Just an idea.

Fans used in computer equipment cabinets run 24x7. Same thing with fans in computers, they're always on when the computer is on... Some fancy ones have tachometers that are probably temperature related... Just need to look into the MTBF (mean time between failures) to get an idea of how long it is "supposed" to last.

yeah it kind of sucks noone who knows anything about video games will be nice enough to just test out a game like halo 2 and say for sure there is lag or not, one guy said he had lag but you could tell he knew nothing about video games then the second guy claims there is no lag when you do not go through a reciever, when you go straight to tv there is no lag, well i wish someone who actually knew what lag was could give a definate answer cause my preorder is getting called monday and i would really love to know if there is gonna be lag or not

Blame your local affiliate.

If the "show" is in HD, but the commercials are in SD, your affiliate has to switch between UP-CONVERTING the SD, and just PASSING-THROUGH the HD.

For local stations that have been doing this a while, they are probably using older equipment which will not switch automatically. This means that a HUMAN has to sit there watching the show, and manually throw a switch every time the show goes to commercial, and again when it comes back from commercial. If the HUMAN is not paying attention.....

That last local affiliate to go HD in Albuquerque, was our NBC station. Since they were last, they have the latest equipment to handle HD broadcasts. Their equipment actually detects when there is HD to PASS-THROUGH, and when it needs to switch to UP-CONVERTING SD material. Even it is not perfect, however. Their equipment probably auto-switches correctly 99% of the time.

Our NBC affiliate only turns on this equipment at the beginning of their nightly broadcast. Sometimes they forget to do that, and the HD material will be sent out as UP-CONVERTED SD instead --- until one of us viewers calls in an reminds them to turn on the HD PASS-THROUGH. Since I record everything, it usually is not me :rolleyes:

John

Don't blame the affiliate so quick. When the spots and promos run from the network during the show, you will notice the aspect ratio changes as well. There are not a whole lot of HD spots out there right now. Also notice that not many nets are running HD promos. Do we upconvert? Yes, everything that runs from the local level, we upconvert. If you thought that TV you bought was expensive, try purchasing an entire control room in HD. But everything from the net, we just pass...and that includes spots.

Hope this helps answer some questions.

E

nother question: if I input 1080i to my sammy, can i make it deinterlace? If so, will this effect the resolution???
The Sammy is designed to automatically deinterlace 1080i to 1080p. You can not prevent this from happening, short of disabling the set. The Sammy always scales/deinterlaces to a native resolution of 1080p for display and the final screen resolution will not be impacted whether you input 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i.

I believe you might be actually questioning whether inputting 1080i and having the set deinterlace will impact PQ negatively. The answer is similar to the DVD question you asked. You need to feed all of the options to the set and determine which looks best to you. The best option will be a function of your individual equipment. By feeding a progressive format (480p or 720p), you are relying on the deinterlacer in your DVD player, set top box, etc. to do the deinterlacing and the TV to only do scaling. In this case, if the DVD player happens to have a better de-interlacer then you'd have better PQ on the display. However, if the set has the better deinterlacer, then you'd want the set to de-interlace and should thus feed 480i or 1080i. As you see, there are a number of combinations of source/set scaler/de-interlace combination. The best thing to do, if concerned, is to feed each one and see which you prefer. Remember, the only way to feed 1080p directly to the set is via the VGA port which requires a computer or external scaler. (I probably should have left the last line out. ;) )
nother question: I'm a newb to this forum, what in the heck is macro blocking? Is it some form of copyright protection???
Macroblocking is a type of visual noise that shows up in a display under various circumstances. It typically appears as blocks moving across the screen but I have also seen it described as a blur. It is related to the MPEG encoding (decoding) process but seems to be prevalent with certain video processing chip (particularly Farouja)/display combinations. As you've probably noted in the discussion, the specifics as to when, where and how much macroblocking will be seen have not been nailed down.

I don't know what is too hot, but I think is important to understand the spread with the room temp. If that works out to be 15 degrees then you know if it is 80 degrees in the room it is probably 95 in the cabinet. For my installation, I would not want the operating temp to get above 95 degrees or so. Nothing scientific ... it just seems logical to take steps to keep it close to room temp.

I have had the thermometer in the cabinet over 4 hours now and the temp outside the cabinet is 77.8 and inside 85.5 and has been steady for over 2 hours. I think this will do without any further ventilation. Will let it go until bedtime and then start checking the electronics area, but I built in cros ventilation into a dead space and that seems to work really well.

have a 6168w on order now i am thinking about calibration.

is avia or DVE better for the 1080P series? someway back there was talk about the thx optimization test not calibrating well (washed out blacks) and there are a few posts stating that dve tests plain out wouldn't work.is there different versions of these discs that could be to blame????

is avia better or another calibration source?


EDIT : FOUND THIS FORUM AVIA VS DVE http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12043

yeah it kind of sucks noone who knows anything about video games will be nice enough to just test out a game like halo 2 and say for sure there is lag or not, one guy said he had lag but you could tell he knew nothing about video games then the second guy claims there is no lag when you do not go through a reciever, when you go straight to tv there is no lag, well i wish someone who actually knew what lag was could give a definate answer cause my preorder is getting called monday and i would really love to know if there is gonna be lag or not
In both those cases there would be a lag from a game players perspective. The game has a controller, audio and video. While we can futz with keeping the audio and video in synch all day long, there is nothing we can do to keep these in synch with the game console once they leave the set.

Most of us have reported about 100ms delay generally for digital processing of the image in the TV's. If you can live with that then you have a chance. If not then you will have to wait until something faster comes about.

I would say you should march down to a local retailer with your game console and plug in. Shouldn't take more than a few seconds and it will be you that has to decide how much lag is too much. There is a lag.

Well, looks like Sammy is going to replace my TV because my HDMI ports are screwy. They don't have any stock of the HDMI boards, which explains the TV switch. Annoying . . .

Folks have been asking about gaming and lag and here is my take on it. Been playing games since Atari and Intellivision came out and I remember going straight to the store to play Space Invaders after school. So I have been feeding quarters into games for a long time.

Got my 6178 Monday, but just haven't had time to enjoy it until now. Put in GT4 and took off with a component connection from the PS2 to the 6178. Had the settings on for movie mode and DNR on. Was there lag...absolutely. Kept hitting the walls. Reset my component input to GAME and ran the second lap. Was there lag...maybe a little, but if it was there, it was not much. The picture quality went down when I switched it to GAME, but it was still a ton of fun. Brake and throttle response seemed normal to me and the car reacted when I turned.

I cannot test an XBOX as I have already traded my in towards a 360. I will test GTA: San Andreas later and report back.

Hope this helps...

have a 6168w on order now i am thinking about calibration.

is avia or DVE better for the 1080P series? someway back there was talk about the thx optimization test not calibrating well (washed out blacks) and there are a few posts stating that dve tests plain out wouldn't work.is there different versions of these discs that could be to blame????

is avia better or another calibration source?


EDIT : FOUND THIS FORUM AVIA VS DVE http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12043

I like DVE better for video. And I used to say that I liked AVIA for audio, but with the MCACC on the Pioneer 1014 AVR, and the BFD with the sub, I really don't use AVIA at all anymore. But DVE for setting black and while levels is excellent!

have a 6168w on order now i am thinking about calibration.

is avia or DVE better for the 1080P series? someway back there was talk about the thx optimization test not calibrating well (washed out blacks) and there are a few posts stating that dve tests plain out wouldn't work.is there different versions of these discs that could be to blame????

is avia better or another calibration source?


EDIT : FOUND THIS FORUM AVIA VS DVE http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12043
In my opinion (see my post earlier today on BTB) there is no test disk that is going to help you unless you are running 480i/p over component. Not completely sure about that but close enough.

Don't bother with the sharpness or contrast settings. You can play with brightness but it will probably come out the same as default, at least on movie mode. Have not checked out color settings but don't want to bother. The set looks good and I have I confidence that with DLP its going to be good enough on Movie to match the right levels. YMMV and you may prefer one of the other color temps.

Save your money :(

I like DVE better for video. And I used to say that I liked AVIA for audio, but with the MCACC on the Pioneer 1014 AVR, and the BFD with the sub, I really don't use AVIA at all anymore. But DVE for setting black and while levels is excellent!
Millerwill, you got me... What the heck is "BFD" in regard to the sub? I assume it's not "Big F**king Deal."

Hello all.

Received my 6168 today and I'm extremely happy!

Picture quality is amazing! Even the cable-card installer commented on how he hasn't seen a better picture. "Wow" were his exact words.

I am using a Cable Card to watch HD and have an optical out connected to my receiver.

I have an optical out of my DVD player to my receiver also.

The DVD player outputs 5.1 Dolby Digital properly. However, the receiver is not recognizing Dolby Digital fromthe HD channels? It has an indicator for Digital which is lit up, but the Dolby Digital is not... and no surround sound, Just stereo. If I set the receiver to surround sound, it upconverts the sound to Dolby Surround.

Ay thoughts?

My configuration is as follows:
6168
Onkyo TX-SR500
Cable Card with HD Pack
B&W Surround Sound speakers
HSU Sub
Samsung 850 DVD
Windows Media Center HTPC

Hello all.

Received my 6168 today and I'm extremely happy!

Picture quality is amazing! Even the cable-card installer commented on how he hasn't seen a better picture. "Wow" were his exact words.

I am using a Cable Card to watch HD and have an optical out connected to my receiver.

I have an optical out of my DVD player to my receiver also.

The DVD player outputs 5.1 Dolby Digital properly. However, the receiver is not recognizing Dolby Digital fromthe HD channels? It has an indicator for Digital which is lit up, but the Dolby Digital is not... and no surround sound, Just stereo. If I set the receiver to surround sound, it upconverts the sound to Dolby Surround.

Ay thoughts?

My configuration is as follows:
6168
Onkyo TX-SR500
Cable Card with HD Pack
B&W Surround Sound speakers
HSU Sub
Samsung 850 DVD
Windows Media Center HTPC
Make sure that you don't have the DVD player set to "PCM".

Millerwill, you got me... What the heck is "BFD" in regard to the sub? I assume it's not "Big F**king Deal."

BFD = Behringer Feedback Destroyer, an inexpensive (~$100) box that can be used to 'equalize' your sub, i.e., to cut out room resonance peaks to give a flatter frequency response. Do a search on 'BFD' over in the Sub Forum, and you'll hear a ton of discussion about it, how to use it, etc. Most people say it's the best $100 they ever spent (provided you like tweaking!).

The Sammy is designed to automatically deinterlace 1080i to 1080p. You can not prevent this from happening, short of disabling the set. The Sammy always scales/deinterlaces to a native resolution of 1080p for display and the final screen resolution will not be impacted whether you input 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i.

I believe you might be actually questioning whether inputting 1080i and having the set deinterlace will impact PQ negatively. The answer is similar to the DVD question you asked. You need to feed all of the options to the set and determine which looks best to you. The best option will be a function of your individual equipment. By feeding a progressive format (480p or 720p), you are relying on the deinterlacer in your DVD player, set top box, etc. to do the deinterlacing and the TV to only do scaling. In this case, if the DVD player happens to have a better de-interlacer then you'd have better PQ on the display. However, if the set has the better deinterlacer, then you'd want the set to de-interlace and should thus feed 480i or 1080i. As you see, there are a number of combinations of source/set scaler/de-interlace combination. The best thing to do, if concerned, is to feed each one and see which you prefer. Remember, the only way to feed 1080p directly to the set is via the VGA port which requires a computer or external scaler. (I probably should have left the last line out. ;) )

Macroblocking is a type of visual noise that shows up in a display under various circumstances. It typically appears as blocks moving across the screen but I have also seen it described as a blur. It is related to the MPEG encoding (decoding) process but seems to be prevalent with certain video processing chip (particularly Farouja)/display combinations. As you've probably noted in the discussion, the specifics as to when, where and how much macroblocking will be seen have not been nailed down.

Jeez, I feel special!!! Such a long reply...Thanks GREATLY FOR YOUR REPLY!!! :) :) :) Ok, so what is PQ??? (performance quotient??? lol) My main point is, when 1080P television broadcasts appear, will I lose any image detail by having a set that doesn't have 1080p input? Compared to a set that will accept 1080i and upconvert it?

Millerwill... thanks. BFD is now on my ever growing list of things to look into.

Here is a link to my first impression of the Pioneer Elite 59AVi on the
Pioneer Elite 59AVi owners thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5979990&&#post5979990

If there are questions or comments its probably better to post them at
the above thread rather than clutter up this one with DVD stuff...

Make sure that you don't have the DVD player set to "PCM".

The DVD Player outputs 5.1. The TV is not outputing 5.1 from HD sources (even though it is a Dolby Digital source and I am using optical out). Also, the HD is coming from the TV itself (I am using a Cable Card).

Went to Magnolia today in Phoenix to check out the 6168 again. Picture quality was clearly the best in the room. The pixel density was clearly noticeable, resulting in a smooth pixel-free picture. From a few feet away you couldn't see any pixel structure unlike the wall of 720p TVs all around it where the pixel structure was very noticeable.

Also, the matte screen is a clear positive differentiator from the glare screens on most other models and the one I have lived with for the last several years.

Stood back to take a look for the lag and I have to say it was evident. I watched a wall of 10 or so TVs switch between scenes in unison, with the Samsung slightly behind the entire group. In fact the other 9 or so TVs were in unison and Samsung was lagged behind.

As a result, I think you will see lag with video games, without a doubt, and with audio, but there are clear workarounds for each (like GAME mode for video games and a receiver with audio delay settings.)

Don't get me wrong, I am planning on buying the 6768, but everybody needs to go into this purchase understanding these two shortfalls and methods to overcome them.

I just realized that Dolby Digital doesn't necessary mean 5.1. A movie was playing on an HD channel and it was properly sending out 5.1. However, ESPN, for example, was not.

Hello all.

Received my 6168 today and I'm extremely happy!

Picture quality is amazing! Even the cable-card installer commented on how he hasn't seen a better picture. "Wow" were his exact words.

I am using a Cable Card to watch HD and have an optical out connected to my receiver.

I have an optical out of my DVD player to my receiver also.

The DVD player outputs 5.1 Dolby Digital properly. However, the receiver is not recognizing Dolby Digital fromthe HD channels? It has an indicator for Digital which is lit up, but the Dolby Digital is not... and no surround sound, Just stereo. If I set the receiver to surround sound, it upconverts the sound to Dolby Surround.

Ay thoughts?

My configuration is as follows:
6168
Onkyo TX-SR500
Cable Card with HD Pack
B&W Surround Sound speakers
HSU Sub
Samsung 850 DVD
Windows Media Center HTPC

Millerwill... thanks. BFD is now on my ever growing list of things to look into.

It's really a lot of fun playing with it! (and it does indeed make the sub more effective)

I have had the thermometer in the cabinet over 4 hours now and the temp outside the cabinet is 77.8 and inside 85.5 and has been steady for over 2 hours. I think this will do without any further ventilation. Will let it go until bedtime and then start checking the electronics area, but I built in cros ventilation into a dead space and that seems to work really well.

Great ... I wouldn't worry about it any longer. A seven degree or so differential is trivial.

In my opinion (see my post earlier today on BTB) there is no test disk that is going to help you unless you are running 480i/p over component. Not completely sure about that but close enough.

Don't bother with the sharpness or contrast settings. You can play with brightness but it will probably come out the same as default, at least on movie mode. Have not checked out color settings but don't want to bother. The set looks good and I have I confidence that with DLP its going to be good enough on Movie to match the right levels. YMMV and you may prefer one of the other color temps.

Save your money :(


its $15 on amazon.com not to worried about the money and i know it may not dramatically change the PQ.

1. what i am wondering is if the DVE disc will flat out work on these sets ie be able to use the tests and also because of adjusting for these tests get a better picture?????

2.are these discs obsolete because of technology???

3. if there is a power failure does the bulb fan keep blowing? what damage is done to the bulb/tv if the tv is not properly powered down?

its thousands of dollars and i want it to perform the best it can and am trying to find out how.

As a result, I think you will see lag with video games, without a doubt, and with audio, but there are clear workarounds for each (like GAME mode for video games and a receiver with audio delay settings.)

If everything I've understood in this thread is mostly correct, GAME mode is limited to 480i (Standard TV revolution).
If the only way to get game systems to work is through GAME setting, then I find that unacceptable, It seems odd that a system can output 720p or higher and still be forced down to 480i just to make it playable.

Thanks for all the information in this thread, I think I've decided to pass on HDTVs all together for awhile until the technology advances abit more, little point buying a set in preperation for my Xbox360/PS3/NR/PC if it can't even take advantage of the HD output on those systems.

Did a search on "video lag" on the forum and found over 500 hits. Just about every one concerned a Samsung DLP. Just don't understand why Samsung won't invest in fixing this problem by using better components or another company's scaler.

You feed 480i to the TV but the TV upconverts it to 720p (67 series) or 1080p (68/78 series) just like it does with 480i or 480p from a DVD player or STB etc. This could actually be a benefit if the TV's deinterlacer & scaler is better than the game console's.


Ok, I understand that, but the issue is it only takes in the 480i signal, even if my xbox could output 720p, the TV, as I understand it, will only accept 480i, and then upconverts it, which causes a small level of lag in itself, if you o outside GAME mode, it lags to an unplayable level.
If I'm investing $4000+ in a TV, I'd like it to be able to accept input (especially 1HD generation old input) from systems/etc, for the investment I don't think there should be "workarounds" for something that should be so basic.

Seems like telling most the people on the forum here it'll upconvert to 1080p, but it *only* has a coxial jack for a DVD player, maybe a inaccurate analogy :p .

Feel free to correct anything I've gotten incorrect.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at with that remark. I was referring to having the game console provide 480i over component and letting the TV upconvert it. Maybe I'm missing your overall point and someone else can chime in and clarify.

I would guess the issue is that unlike unconverting a standard 480i source, when a console game outputs 480p (or 720p), it's probably not just upconverting from 480i--it's actually rendering a full 480-line or 720-line screen at however many FPS the 3D engine can handle. Therefore, you're potentially getting more real pixels to the screen each frame, not just doubling a 240-line image.

Now, if a particular game is outputting 480p, but is really only rendering at 30 FPS, then I don't know if you're really getting much better output than you would from an upconverted 480i (since you're really only getting 30 FPS worth of 480-line data in either case). But if it can push out 480p at 60 FPS, then that should be better than 480i. And, of course, outputting a true 720-line image (which I guess the XBox can do) would be clearly superior.

So it is a bummer that "game mode" only works at 480i--it's really not future-proof, and it's pretty annoying given that Samsung and Microsoft are supposedly partnering on this. Presumably next year's models will be better about this.

I play a fair number of games, but not usually the extremely twitchy ones, so I'm guessing I'll be okay with the lag (and since I only have a PS2 I'll probably be fine with 480i upconverted for games where lag is a factor), but it's definitely going to be a downside one or two years down the road when X360 and PS3 are out (a bigger deal than "true 1080p inputs" IMHO, though that's also going to be something of an issue).

I am as puzzled as you are. I don't remember off the top of my head whether or not they were appearing in those squares in the background, but I would say two things. The spots tend to appear more in larger areas of darkness, and they appear most when the image is still. They still appear when the image is slow, but they are extremely noticeable the more still the image. Am I right to assume that this is an issue that is not common?

Clorox,

Not sure if you got an answer to this, but found the following at the Samsung DLP FAQ's:

Date 2005-02-04 05:58:00

Question Why Are There Red Dots Appearing In All The Dark Backgrounds On My DLP TV?

Answer
If your are seeing red dots in the dark background images on your DLP TV screen, you need to get your TV serviced.

To arrange a service appointment, call Samsung Customer Care at 1-800-Samsung (1-800-726-7864). Have your TV's model number and serial number on hand when you call.

To view our DLP TV Interactive User's Guide, click here.

This was the link: http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer/sea/jsp/faqs/faqs_view.jsp?PG_ID=3&AT_ID=17622&PROD_SUB_ID=41&PROD_ID=153

Rictus gave a clearer explaination of what I was getting at, thank you.

...and I realzed that I'm not really prepared to own this TV! I need some help!

People keep talking about buying a UPS for their tv to prevent the lamp from overheating in the even of a power outage...how necessary is this? It sound important enough to me, but I have not even begun to research on this. Can someone recommend one to me that's available online...cheap?

Also, I'm going to need a PS2 component cable...does anyone have any recommendations on where to obtain one online? Just looking for feedback stories...what have been your experiences with the company you've ordered one from?

Finally, I need a dvi-hdmi adapter for my PC. I'm considering the Blue Jeans cable people have mentioned on here before for price and availability. Can someone recommend someone else? Does anyone NOT recommend them?

What else will I need, besides the other necessary cables? Do I also need a power surge protector? This is my first HDTV and I want everything to go smoothly. I'm upgrading from a 10 year old RCA CRT 27" with only a coax cable connection. :o

...and I realzed that I'm not really prepared to own this TV! I need some help!

People keep talking about buying a UPS for their tv to prevent the lamp from overheating in the even of a power outage...how necessary is this? It sound important enough to me, but I have not even begun to research on this. Can someone recommend one to me that's available online...cheap?

Also, I'm going to need a PS2 component cable...does anyone have any recommendations on where to obtain one online? Just looking for feedback stories...what have been your experiences with the company you've ordered one from?

Finally, I need a dvi-hdmi adapter for my PC. I'm considering the Blue Jeans cable people have mentioned on here before for price and availability. Can someone recommend someone else? Does anyone NOT recommend them?

What else will I need, besides the other necessary cables? Do I also need a power surge protector? This is my first HDTV and I want everything to go smoothly. I'm upgrading from a 10 year old RCA CRT 27" with only a coax cable connection. :o

I would definitely get a good surge protector. I have not purchased a UPS yet, and am not sure I will. I have heard good things about Blue Jean for cables, but I just purchased a 3m HDMI cable online from "Cables to Go" and had good luck. It arrived promptly and appears to be well made.

Other cables you may need are either coaxial or optical for digital output to a receiver.

Sometime in the future I will also replace 4 remotes with one programable one. They can be pricey, though, so i will do a bit more research first.

So far I love my HLR6168, even with the lip-synch problems. It comes with the territory. My 4-year old Mitsubishi hooked up to a Motorola STB has lag, as does my Olevia LCD on certain programs.

Clorox,

Not sure if you got an answer to this, but found the following at the Samsung DLP FAQ's:

Date 2005-02-04 05:58:00

Question Why Are There Red Dots Appearing In All The Dark Backgrounds On My DLP TV?

Answer
If your are seeing red dots in the dark background images on your DLP TV screen, you need to get your TV serviced.

To arrange a service appointment, call Samsung Customer Care at 1-800-Samsung (1-800-726-7864). Have your TV's model number and serial number on hand when you call.

To view our DLP TV Interactive User's Guide, click here.

This was the link: http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer/sea/jsp/faqs/faqs_view.jsp?PG_ID=3&AT_ID=17622&PROD_SUB_ID=41&PROD_ID=153

Thanks Bob!

At least it's a known issue... I think I might play it safe and have the set totally replaced by TVA.

Ok, so what is PQ??? PQ = "picture quality"

My main point is, when 1080P television broadcasts appear, will I lose any image detail by having a set that doesn't have 1080p input? Compared to a set that will accept 1080i and upconvert it? In My Humble Opinion, not to an extent that it would matter.

Now, take a deep breath...

The current Sammy 1080p sets can take a 1080p 24fps broadcast signal over its internal tuner. It can also accept and send a 1080p 24 fps signal over its IEEE 1394 port. No interlacing or scaling is necessary. How would the PQ of these signals compare with taking the same broadcast as 1080i (e.g., over cable)? Don't know. Again, there are so many variables, you'd have to run the test for your situation. Regardless, with the current 1080p Sammys you have the capability of using either signal if available.

Next, 1080p @ 60hz television broadcasts (The Holy Grail) will not appear for a long time, if ever. There are technical reasons (e.g., not enough bandwidth) why uncompressed 1080p broadcasts can not be done and it will take an act of Congress to change the spectrum allocations to allow 1080p broadcasts. There is a rumor that the Blu-Ray dvd players will have 1080p outputs. However, it's assumed that these devices will also be capable of 1080i or 720p outputs so having a TV that accepts 1080i and not 1080p will not be a problem. How will this impact PQ if your set has to take the 1080i output and de-interlace? Again, who knows. It will be equipment dependent. Degradation would be expected but it could be so slight as to be undetectable by the typical viewer. However, most videophiles would definitely expect that a disc recorded at 1080p, transmitted at 1080p, received at 1080p and displayed at 1080p would be the optimum process.

Finally, if the only signal available to you is 1080p @ 60hz and you have no way of getting the signal to the Sammy's VGA port then you are screwed. You would need some external means of interlacing or scaling the 1080p signal to 1080i, 480i, 480p or 720p to get it into the Sammy, which would then scale/de-interlace the signal back to 1080p. From a PQ stand point, I would not expect this to provide optimum PQ. But, again, it will be equipment dependent.

As for the VGA input, IMHO, the data to date has not shown to me that it's a dependable, high PQ option. So far, reports from the computer folks suggests that you can get good PQ on the display but the quality appears to be very equipment/software dependent and not straight forward. As of yet, no one has reported trying to put a 1080p @ 60hz signal through the VGA port using one of the quality external scalers, such as Lumagen or DVDO.

Sorry for the length ...

PQ = "picture quality"

In My Humble Opinion, not to an extent that it would matter.

Now, take a deep breath...

The current Sammy 1080p sets can take a 1080p 24fps broadcast signal over its internal tuner. It can also accept and send a 1080p 24 fps signal over its IEEE 1394 port. No interlacing or scaling is necessary. How would the PQ of these signals compare with taking the same broadcast as 1080i (e.g., over cable)? Don't know. Again, there are so many variables, you'd have to run the test for your situation. Regardless, with the current 1080p Sammys you have the capability of using either signal if available.

Next, 1080p @ 60hz television broadcasts (The Holy Grail) will not appear for a long time, if ever. There are technical reasons (e.g., not enough bandwidth) why uncompressed 1080p broadcasts can not be done and it will take an act of Congress to change the spectrum allocations to allow 1080p broadcasts. There is a rumor that the Blu-Ray dvd players will have 1080p outputs. However, it's assumed that these devices will also be capable of 1080i or 720p outputs so having a TV that accepts 1080i and not 1080p will not be a problem. How will this impact PQ if your set has to take the 1080i output and de-interlace? Again, who knows. It will be equipment dependent. Degradation would be expected but it could be so slight as to be undetectable by the typical viewer. However, most videophiles would definitely expect that a disc recorded at 1080p, transmitted at 1080p, received at 1080p and displayed at 1080p would be the optimum process.

Finally, if the only signal available to you is 1080p @ 60hz and you have no way of getting the signal to the Sammy's VGA port then you are screwed. You would need some external means of interlacing or scaling the 1080p signal to 1080i, 480i, 480p or 720p to get it into the Sammy, which would then scale/de-interlace the signal back to 1080p. From a PQ stand point, I would not expect this to provide optimum PQ. But, again, it will be equipment dependent.

As for the VGA input, IMHO, the data to date has not shown to me that it's a dependable, high PQ option. So far, reports from the computer folks suggests that you can get good PQ on the display but the quality appears to be very equipment/software dependent and not straight forward. As of yet, no one has reported trying to put a 1080p @ 60hz signal through the VGA port using one of the quality external scalers, such as Lumagen or DVDO.

Sorry for the length ...
Don't be...Thanks greatly!!! Now, OTA broadcast how many hertz? 60Hz how many FPS???

People keep talking about buying a UPS for their tv to prevent the lamp from overheating in the even of a power outage...how necessary is this? It sound important enough to me, but I have not even begun to research on this. Can someone recommend one to me that's available online...cheap?


You only need an UPS if the area you live in suffers "frequent" power outages. I live in central Florida, so an UPS is an absolute requirement for me. I ended up buying a Tripplite HT1500UPS Link (http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2802), but an APC Smart UPS would also work just fine as long as it is rated for greater than the set's maximum power usage.

So everything looks great, but I think my Time Warner SciAtl 8300 box is doing some funky things (or maybe the TV itself...you be the judge)

1- the HDMI input won't work at all unless the coax is also connected -- then the HDMI works great...except there's no TV sound...i can only get home theater sound to work...anyone know how i can toggle between TV and HT sound?

2 - THIS ONE IS REALLY WEIRD...when I'm in HDMI mode, I CAN'T VIEW SD CHANNELS!!! that's extremely weird...when i had my sony XBR HDTV and was in component-in source mode, i could switch from and HD channel to an SD channel (couldn't do the other way around though)...can't for the life of me figure why this would be designed this way...completely unacceptable to me as a I have a hi-def PVR and don't want to toggle between source inputs every time i want to tape both SD and HD shows...

anyone else run into this problem...?
thanks,
r

6168 with SA 8300HD DVR...

Newbie Question... When I pull up the settings menu for the 8300, and select "output options" should I only choose 1080i to output from the 8300, or should I select any of the others as well? (480i, 480p, 720p). I can't seem to access the system(?) (or setup?) menu that you pull up with the 8300 turned off so I'm guessing this is the only way to tell the 8300 waht to pass to the 6168.

By the way... just had this for a day now and IT IS WONDERFUL!! PQ on the HD channels absolutely blows me away! Will report more soon.

Thanks!!

shut the 8300 off, press guide+info on the front of the box (at the same time), and the hdtv wizard should start. use the advanced (B) option to select the different resolutions. Once you get out of the setup, enable auto-hdmi (hdmi) or passthrough (component) to allow the box to send the channels to the tv in their native res, if you choose. otherwise you can choose upconvert 1 or 2 to upconvert hd to either 1080i (1) or 720p (2)

Folks have been asking about gaming and lag and here is my take on it. Been playing games since Atari and Intellivision came out and I remember going straight to the store to play Space Invaders after school. So I have been feeding quarters into games for a long time.

Got my 6178 Monday, but just haven't had time to enjoy it until now. Put in GT4 and took off with a component connection from the PS2 to the 6178. Had the settings on for movie mode and DNR on. Was there lag...absolutely. Kept hitting the walls. Reset my component input to GAME and ran the second lap. Was there lag...maybe a little, but if it was there, it was not much. The picture quality went down when I switched it to GAME, but it was still a ton of fun. Brake and throttle response seemed normal to me and the car reacted when I turned.

I cannot test an XBOX as I have already traded my in towards a 360. I will test GTA: San Andreas later and report back.

Hope this helps...

did you set GT4 to 1080i, 480i or 480p ?

Don't be...Thanks greatly!!! Now, OTA broadcast how many hertz? 60Hz how many FPS???Hmmm... Now you've stumped me.

OTA broadcast how many hertz? I assume you are not asking about carrier wave frequencies. If this is true, I'm inclined to respond "I don't know." All that's important is that the TV carrier wave signal will have information for images in resolution formats of 480i, 720p, 1080i or, possibly 1080p 24fps and the 1080p Sammys can handle all of these.

60Hz how many FPS??? Not sure what you are getting at here. I saw a discussion somewhere in these forums (try Search) that got into the details of the actual recording of images for TV and movies and the conversion of these into the various formats. Lots of talk about frequencies (hz) and frames per second (fps). I do not know the technology well enough to summarize it. On the other hand, you might be asking about the relationship between 1080p @ 60hz and 1080p 24fps. Without all the details (and not fully technically correct because I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable), the 1080p 24 fps format is basically a compressed format for 1080p @ 60hz information.

I just realized that Dolby Digital doesn't necessary mean 5.1. A movie was playing on an HD channel and it was properly sending out 5.1. However, ESPN, for example, was not.

I believe ESPN only sends DD5.1 during live sporting events. My receiver has always shown a 2.0 signal during sportscenter but 5.1 when a live game is on from ESPNHD

Hmmm... Now you've stumped me.

OTA broadcast how many hertz? I assume you are not asking about carrier wave frequencies. If this is true, I'm inclined to respond "I don't know." All that's important is that the TV carrier wave signal will have information for images in resolution formats of 480i, 720p, 1080i or, possibly 1080p 24fps and the 1080p Sammys can handle all of these.

60Hz how many FPS??? Not sure what you are getting at here. I saw a discussion somewhere in these forums (try Search) that got into the details of the actual recording of images for TV and movies and the conversion of these into the various formats. Lots of talk about frequencies (hz) and frames per second (fps). I do not know the technology well enough to summarize it. On the other hand, you might be asking about the relationship between 1080p @ 60hz and 1080p 24fps. Without all the details (and not fully technically correct because I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable), the 1080p 24 fps format is basically a compressed format for 1080p @ 60hz information.
Thankx, your last sentence answered my question! So you don't know how many fps is the uncompressed version.

Posted this in the DVD forum, but I think it should go here as well. BTW, I love love love HD on this set. Maybe I just need to wait until the bulb gets burned in?

-------
Hey guys

I just received my SS HLR 6168 yesterday, and hooked up my 950 out of the box. I used Harry Potter POA as my first disk, as I really thought it looked amazing on my older SONY CRT HDTV with 480p Sony DVD player.

I was underwhelmed, to say the least.

Maybe I just had higher expectations of the set and the DVD player, especially since they are supposed to be the "best" Samsung makes right now.

Everything was muddy on the display. There was no detail to the blacks whatsoever. For instance, in the scene where Lupin teaches the kids about the Boggard, and Ron's turns into a black spider, it was one solid black color. The only highlights were a muddy grey blob which pixelated between grey and the black body of the spider. On my old display it was like watching an actual film.

I played with the different settings on the TV - standard was too blue and cool for my tastes, and movie was more warm but a slightly better picture.

Detail was almost non-existant. I thought I was watching a VCR upconverted over composite video. I couldn't believe my 5 year old CRT and 480p Sony were better than my new 1080p TV and 1080i upconverting DVD player.

I tried SW AOTC as another reference disk, and while it looked better than HP:POA, it by no means impressed me. I've read on here that people are so impressed with an upconverting player over HDMI that I really expected a better performance.

Do you all think I've got a defective 950t?

BTW, HDTV over cable looks stunning. I can't believe how sharp and clear things are on the TV. Even SD cable looks pretty good. DVDs just don't. (BTW, I tried the same movies over component and it looked even worse).

I'm going to try my old Sony 480p player tonight to see if it makes any difference.

I tried SW AOTC as another reference disk, and while it looked better than HP:POA, it by no means impressed me. I've read on here that people are so impressed with an upconverting player over HDMI that I really expected a better performance.

I have been using AOTC as a test disc numerous times and it looks amazing. At first I had my dvd player (panasonic S97) setup wrong. For some reason it was applying a 1.33x zoom to everything and I couldn't figure out why it looked so bad. The zoom was so slight that you didn't notice it zoomed except for the pixelization. After I sorted that out it was wonderful. I'll have to rent potter again and see what that looks like, but every anamorphic dvd that I've played has looked amazing. I don't know what the settings are on your dvd player but make sure you have them set correctly.


Newbie Question... When I pull up the settings menu for the 8300, and select "output options" should I only choose 1080i to output from the 8300, or should I select any of the others as well? (480i, 480p, 720p). I can't seem to access the system(?) (or setup?) menu that you pull up with the 8300 turned off so I'm guessing this is the only way to tell the 8300 waht to pass to the 6168.

I would tell the cable box to pass all the resolutions. Otherwise the 8300 is going to upconvert and then send it. I'd rather let the tv upconvert.

Here are some pictures of the artifacts that come up on my set when using the component inputs... I don't recall ever seeing these artifacts on the internal tuner or the PC input (makes sense for the pc input as the tv doesn't have any upscaling to do..), but it appears to do this on both my xbox and cable box when outputting 720P or 1080I... The artifacts don't show up with 480i / 480P content, and different cables made no difference. It does the same exact thing on both component input 1 and 2.. What are your guy's thoughts?

http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/artifact1.jpg (look at Conan's black suit)

http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/artifact2.jpg (here's a close up)

The set will not show the artifacts for probably the first 10 - 15 minutes, but overtime the problem gradually gets worse.. Tonight I am going to see if I can reproduce the problems with the HDMI... I think if I have the same problems with HDMI I will just have my set replaced. If HDMI is fine I'll probably just have the set serviced as one would think the problem would just be related to the board that controls the component inputs... Will report back on this...

shut the 8300 off, press guide+info on the front of the box (at the same time), and the hdtv wizard should start. use the advanced (B) option to select the different resolutions. Once you get out of the setup, enable auto-hdmi (hdmi) or passthrough (component) to allow the box to send the channels to the tv in their native res, if you choose. otherwise you can choose upconvert 1 or 2 to upconvert hd to either 1080i (1) or 720p (2)

North Jersey... thanks! My problem is that the "guide+info" startup on the 8300 doesn't work (maybe Time Warner here in KC has it deactivated?) So I guess I'm wondering if the "settings" menu that I can bring up (a Time Warner thing?) which has an option to specify outputs (you can select one or any combination of the 4 res options) is doing the same thing... so that by selecting just 1080i, it would upconvert everything to that res.

Thanks again! Bill

PQ = "picture quality"

In My Humble Opinion, not to an extent that it would matter.

Now, take a deep breath...

The current Sammy 1080p sets can take a 1080p 24fps broadcast signal over its internal tuner. It can also accept and send a 1080p 24 fps signal over its IEEE 1394 port. No interlacing or scaling is necessary. How would the PQ of these signals compare with taking the same broadcast as 1080i (e.g., over cable)? Don't know. Again, there are so many variables, you'd have to run the test for your situation. Regardless, with the current 1080p Sammys you have the capability of using either signal if available.

Next, 1080p @ 60hz television broadcasts (The Holy Grail) will not appear for a long time, if ever. There are technical reasons (e.g., not enough bandwidth) why uncompressed 1080p broadcasts can not be done and it will take an act of Congress to change the spectrum allocations to allow 1080p broadcasts. There is a rumor that the Blu-Ray dvd players will have 1080p outputs. However, it's assumed that these devices will also be capable of 1080i or 720p outputs so having a TV that accepts 1080i and not 1080p will not be a problem. How will this impact PQ if your set has to take the 1080i output and de-interlace? Again, who knows. It will be equipment dependent. Degradation would be expected but it could be so slight as to be undetectable by the typical viewer. However, most videophiles would definitely expect that a disc recorded at 1080p, transmitted at 1080p, received at 1080p and displayed at 1080p would be the optimum process.

Finally, if the only signal available to you is 1080p @ 60hz and you have no way of getting the signal to the Sammy's VGA port then you are screwed. You would need some external means of interlacing or scaling the 1080p signal to 1080i, 480i, 480p or 720p to get it into the Sammy, which would then scale/de-interlace the signal back to 1080p. From a PQ stand point, I would not expect this to provide optimum PQ. But, again, it will be equipment dependent.

As for the VGA input, IMHO, the data to date has not shown to me that it's a dependable, high PQ option. So far, reports from the computer folks suggests that you can get good PQ on the display but the quality appears to be very equipment/software dependent and not straight forward. As of yet, no one has reported trying to put a 1080p @ 60hz signal through the VGA port using one of the quality external scalers, such as Lumagen or DVDO.

Sorry for the length ...

1080p24fps is not a compressed format for 1080p60fps. 1080p24fps
is what Film is generally HD mastered to.

HD-DVD will store this as 1080i and since the Samsung 1080p set takes
a 1080i signal the Samsung 1080p set will de-interlace the image restoring it to
its progressive format. No 1080p input is necessary for the reconstructing of
the original format. No temporal artifacts are created. Blu-Ray may store
this as 1080p24fps but will also provide an output of 1080i and therefore
the original quality will be able to be constructed without temporal artifiacts.

The problem occurs when something is recorded in 1080i originally and then
viewed at 1080p because two frames are used to record, 540 at t0 and another
540 at t0+1. De-interlacing such a recorded image introduces temporal artifacts.
With 1080p cameras becoming more popular should this occur less and less.
HD Home movies are probably the greatest source of this today.

A problem may also occur if it is recorded or created in 1080p60fps and the
source player of this material does not have a vga output since only the vga
input of our Samsung 1080p DLPs can receieve such an input. I don't expect too
much of this content anytime soon except for Sony PlayStation3 sometime in the next
year or so. I am sure PS3 will also output 1080i because if it didn't there would
not mot be very many who could use on there TV ( since no TVs today offer a HDMI
1080p60fps input ).

Here are some pictures of the artifacts that come up on my set when using the component inputs... I don't recall ever seeing these artifacts on the internal tuner or the PC input (makes sense for the pc input as the tv doesn't have any upscaling to do..), but it appears to do this on both my xbox and cable box when outputting 720P or 1080I... The artifacts don't show up with 480i / 480P content, and different cables made no difference. It does the same exact thing on both component input 1 and 2.. What are your guy's thoughts?

http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/artifact1.jpg (look at Conan's black suit)

http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/artifact2.jpg (here's a close up)

The set will not show the artifacts for probably the first 10 - 15 minutes, but overtime the problem gradually gets worse.. Tonight I am going to see if I can reproduce the problems with the HDMI... I think if I have the same problems with HDMI I will just have my set replaced. If HDMI is fine I'll probably just have the set serviced as one would think the problem would just be related to the board that controls the component inputs... Will report back on this...

Skeeter,

My issue is similar to yours (see below), but I only see the stuff on OTA signals. I have now also called TVA and they are getting back to me today about getting a replacement.

By the way, Conan looks pretty concerned about both of our sets, don't you think?

Skeeter,

My issue is similar to yours (see below), but I only see the stuff on OTA signals. I have now also called TVA and they are getting back to me today about getting a replacement.

By the way, Conan looks pretty concerned about both of our sets, don't you think?

Yeah that is pretty similar... What set do you have? Mine is a 5668W..

Make sure you are using the buttons on the box itself and not on the remote.

North Jersey... thanks! My problem is that the "guide+info" startup on the 8300 doesn't work (maybe Time Warner here in KC has it deactivated?) So I guess I'm wondering if the "settings" menu that I can bring up (a Time Warner thing?) which has an option to specify outputs (you can select one or any combination of the 4 res options) is doing the same thing... so that by selecting just 1080i, it would upconvert everything to that res.

Thanks again! Bill

Yeah that is pretty similar... What set do you have? Mine is a 5668W..

5668W as well.

You only need an UPS if the area you live in suffers "frequent" power outages. I live in central Florida, so an UPS is an absolute requirement for me. I ended up buying a Tripplite HT1500UPS, but an APC Smart UPS would also work just fine as long as it is rated for greater than the set's maximum power usage.

Thanks for the replies!

I live in Florida as well, so I guess it's more than a need for me. It looks like the Tripplite is a surge protector as well, does that mean I won't need a separate surge protector?

What is the sets maximum power usage? What's the minimum UPS I can buy?

Thanks in advance!

5668W as well.

Which wave were you in when you received your set? I was in the first wave and it is my understanding that there were only a handful of 5668W sets in the first wave... What I am getting at is that if your set was in the first wave, maybe there was a bad batch? I haven't seen any other postings yet regarding this problem so hopefully it isn't too common... I'd hate to get a second set with the same problem:( This problem is so strange and sometimes hard to notice that I could see a technician comming down and not being able to reproduce the problem with my luck heh... Oh well best of luck to both of us!

I can now confirm that the 1080P sets do receive an OTA DD 5.1 signal and send it out undisturbed over the Toslink connection. Last night both CBS and Fox broadcast shows with DD 5.1. They did not sound so hot, but all 5 lights on my surround processor lit up :)

Thanks for the replies!

I live in Florida as well, so I guess it's more than a need for me. It looks like the Tripplite is a surge protector as well, does that mean I won't need a separate surge protector?

What is the sets maximum power usage? What's the minimum UPS I can buy?

Thanks in advance!

The TV is rated at 230W. The Tripplite is rated for 450W. This allows me to also have the cable box/DVR on backup also. As for a minimum, I would think you want at least 300W to be on the safe side as you don't want to overload the UPS when it switches to battery power.

1080p24fps is not a compressed format for 1080p60fps. 1080p24fps
is what Film is generally HD mastered to.

HD-DVD will store this as 1080i and since the Samsung 1080p set takes
a 1080i signal the Samsung 1080p set will de-interlace the image restoring it to
its progressive format. No 1080p input is necessary for the reconstructing of
the original format. No temporal artifacts are created. Blu-Ray may store
this as 1080p24fps but will also provide an output of 1080i and therefore
the original quality will be able to be constructed without temporal artifiacts.

The problem occurs when something is recorded in 1080i originally and then
viewed at 1080p because two frames are used to record, 540 at t0 and another
540 at t0+1. De-interlacing such a recorded image introduces temporal artifacts.
With 1080p cameras becoming more popular should this occur less and less.
HD Home movies are probably the greatest source of this today.

A problem may also occur if it is recorded or created in 1080p60fps and the
source player of this material does not have a vga output since only the vga
input of our Samsung 1080p DLPs can receieve such an input. I don't expect too
much of this content anytime soon except for Sony PlayStation3 sometime in the next
year or so. I am sure PS3 will also output 1080i because if it didn't there would
not mot be very many who could use on there TV ( since no TVs today offer a HDMI
1080p60fps input ).

Thanks for the long explination :) :) :) ! One question though, when does hertz come in to the picture (ie. 60hz). Also, your saying that I can only recieve 1080P 24fps OTA?

nother question: which should I allow to do the upconverting: the sammy or the 8300? nother question: i thought firewire was only for audio, and if its for video it can accept 1080p???

Don't blame the affiliate so quick. When the spots and promos run from the network during the show, you will notice the aspect ratio changes as well. There are not a whole lot of HD spots out there right now. Also notice that not many nets are running HD promos.

So, it might be the networks fault when the show comes back from commercial and it is 4:3 upconverted instead of HD?

Do we upconvert? Yes, everything that runs from the local level, we upconvert.
And I am glad that you do :)
If you thought that TV you bought was expensive, try purchasing an entire control room in HD. But everything from the net, we just pass...and that includes spots.

I can appreciate the cost. However, it is EXTREMELY annoying when the local station sends out 4:3 upconverted video instead of the 16:9 feed from the network, just so they can put some local news information on the screen at the same time.

Putting up weather alerts for a minute is fine, but my local CBS station likes to put up the alert for the entire 60 minutes of the show. Not only did I have to put up with an upconverted 4:3 representation of the show, but 25% of the screen was blotted out with their damn weather alert.

Hope this helps answer some questions.

E

Thanks. I really do want to understand how all this works. I appreciate the information.

John

6168 Dead This Morning :eek:

I received my 6168 on Tuesday... working fine (Great PQ!) through last night, but then this morning... nothing. Green lamp light blinks when I turn it on, but the picture never comes on. It tries a couple more times and then all 3 indicators on the round power button blink. The manual says that it indicates a lamp problem. I popped open the back and removed and re-seeded the lamp, but same thing. I've contacted Samsung and service rep will be here tomorrow with new bulb. If that's not it, I'll be looking for a replacement.

So... had a day and a half of "teasing" with this great set and now back to the 26". Hope it's just a faulty lamp! I'll update the group tomorrow.

Bill

Posted this in the DVD forum, but I think it should go here as well. BTW, I love love love HD on this set. Maybe I just need to wait until the bulb gets burned in?


Maybe. I remember being disappointed with my setup in the first few days too in the same manner. I have the 950 and the 5668.

Everything was muddy on the display. There was no detail to the blacks whatsoever. For instance, in the scene where Lupin teaches the kids about the Boggard, and Ron's turns into a black spider, it was one solid black color. The only highlights were a muddy grey blob which pixelated between grey and the black body of the spider. On my old display it was like watching an actual film.

I don't have HP POA - thought I did so I will have to get it now. I have the others and AOTC so if you could give me another scene to test I can.

Go back to MOVIE mode. Also confirm that you have the HDMI setting on RGB-Expand and that you have not played with any of the DVD settings for pic quality. I turned my sharpness way down to 1 but not sure what effect that really has. The others are at 3. I also turned off my Noise Reduction on the TV.

6168 Dead This Morning :eek:

I received my 6168 on Tuesday... working fine (Great PQ!) through last night, but then this morning... nothing. Green lamp light blinks when I turn it on, but the picture never comes on. It tries a couple more times and then all 3 indicators on the round power button blink. The manual says that it indicates a lamp problem. I popped open the back and removed and re-seeded the lamp, but same thing. I've contacted Samsung and service rep will be here tomorrow with new bulb. If that's not it, I'll be looking for a replacement.

So... had a day and a half of "teasing" with this great set and now back to the 26". Hope it's just a faulty lamp! I'll update the group tomorrow.

Bill
Same here Bill, I'm upgrading from a 27"(haha, mines bigger than yours) to a 61" 1080P!!! LOL I'm in for a treat!!!

Thanks for the long explination :) :) :) ! One question though, when does hertz come in to the picture (ie. 60hz). Also, your saying that I can only recieve 1080P 24fps OTA?

I don't know of any broadcast at 1080p24fps and doubt if there will be.

Broadcast is at 1080i60fps which your Samsung receives just fine...

It will de-interlace to 1080p30fps and repeat each frame twice since the
Samsung can only display at 1080p60fps.

6168 Dead This Morning :eek:

I received my 6168 on Tuesday... working fine (Great PQ!) through last night, but then this morning... nothing. Green lamp light blinks when I turn it on, but the picture never comes on. It tries a couple more times and then all 3 indicators on the round power button blink. The manual says that it indicates a lamp problem. I popped open the back and removed and re-seeded the lamp, but same thing. I've contacted Samsung and service rep will be here tomorrow with new bulb. If that's not it, I'll be looking for a replacement.

So... had a day and a half of "teasing" with this great set and now back to the 26". Hope it's just a faulty lamp! I'll update the group tomorrow.

Bill
While you wait why don't you follow the bulb replacement instructions and just reset it. Perhaps its loose.

I don't know of any broadcast at 1080p24fps and doubt if there will be.

Broadcast is at 1080i60fps which your Samsung receives just fine...

It will de-interlace to 1080p30fps and repeat each frame twice since the
Samsung can only display at 1080p60fps.
Even though there, aren't any 1080P broadcasts OTA, it's possible, and the Samsung can accept it right???

I just received my SS HLR 6168 yesterday, and hooked up my 950 out of the box. I used Harry Potter POA as my first disk, as I really thought it looked amazing on my older SONY CRT HDTV with 480p Sony DVD player.

To get help you need to provide more detailed information.

How is the HD950 connected to the TV -- HDMI or composite?

How is your HD950 configured?

One thing that's easy to overlook is that DVD players usually are setup for use with 4x3 TVs like your old set. When you connect either of your DVD players to your Samsung, make sure they have been switched to output to a 16x9 display.

DVD sources can't produce images that equal HD but they should be very good.

1080p24fps is not a compressed format for 1080p60fps. 1080p24fps is what Film is generally HD mastered to.
. Tony... I was told over in the video processing forum some time ago that 1080p60fps is not the same as 1080p @ 60hz. Is that not correct?

Even though there, aren't any 1080P broadcasts OTA, it's possible, and the Samsung can accept it right???

Not that I know of - but if there are no broadcasts in 1080p24fps, who cares?

its $15 on amazon.com not to worried about the money and i know it may not dramatically change the PQ.

1. what i am wondering is if the DVE disc will flat out work on these sets ie be able to use the tests and also because of adjusting for these tests get a better picture?????

2.are these discs obsolete because of technology???

3. if there is a power failure does the bulb fan keep blowing? what damage is done to the bulb/tv if the tv is not properly powered down?

its thousands of dollars and i want it to perform the best it can and am trying to find out how.


Here is an e-mail my brother-in-law sent to the makers of DVE. This should help with the explanation.


__________________________________________________
David Abrams has responded to your help desk request.

-----------------------------------------------
(David Abrams)
-----------------------------------------------

Thank you for your inquiry regarding "Digital Video Essentials." Unless you have the ability to play back HD-DVDs via the VC-1 (Windows Media Video) codec you purchased the correct disc. In order to properly setup the HD signal that is going into your display you would need to have a source for HD formated test patterns. Currently our Professional Version of the program comes with the Windows Media Video discs described.

This does not mean that you purchased the wrong disc. If you watch standard definition DVDs and standard definition ! sources you can use the disc that you purchased to set that up. It will also get you close for the HD memory of the display.

The important thing to remember is that while the display will show you HDTV formated material, it will also display standard definition material. Each of those use a separate memory based on the input. Ultimately, for optimum results you may want to find a qualified video calibrator to set up the display for you. A full calibration requires special instrumentation and access to the service menu to complete.

If you have any other questions please let us know.

Regards,

David Abrams
Joe Kane Productions
Project Coordinator

I believe it has something to do with 1080p60fps being at 59.xx Hz..

Which wave were you in when you received your set? I was in the first wave and it is my understanding that there were only a handful of 5668W sets in the first wave... What I am getting at is that if your set was in the first wave, maybe there was a bad batch? I haven't seen any other postings yet regarding this problem so hopefully it isn't too common... I'd hate to get a second set with the same problem:( This problem is so strange and sometimes hard to notice that I could see a technician comming down and not being able to reproduce the problem with my luck heh... Oh well best of luck to both of us!

Skeeteroplagus,

I was in the first wave. I have a 5668. I have a bad HDMI card with red streaking. Returning for a new set. Maybe you are on to something. 10 sets were in the first batch.

Which wave were you in when you received your set? I was in the first wave and it is my understanding that there were only a handful of 5668W sets in the first wave... What I am getting at is that if your set was in the first wave, maybe there was a bad batch? I haven't seen any other postings yet regarding this problem so hopefully it isn't too common... I'd hate to get a second set with the same problem:( This problem is so strange and sometimes hard to notice that I could see a technician comming down and not being able to reproduce the problem with my luck heh... Oh well best of luck to both of us!

Mine was in the second wave (I was number 14, and I believe the first wave only had about 10 sets IIRC), but I'm not sure that means anything. Our sets could have still been on the same production line together on or around the same time, although I bet you our issues are similar but different, since my problem is pretty much exclusively through OTA content.

While it is frustrating to have this problem, it is a cost of being an early adopter, and so I don't even really fault Samsung that much for this, since there is bound to be a few sets out there that have some issues. Also, I think it is important for us consumers to report these issues to Samsung and our retailers so that it will educate them on what problems the sets are having, how to rectify the problems, and to help with QC in the future.

I don't know of any broadcast at 1080p24fps and doubt if there will be.

Broadcast is at 1080i60fps which your Samsung receives just fine...

It will de-interlace to 1080p30fps and repeat each frame twice since the
Samsung can only display at 1080p60fps.

I'm skeptical that Samsung's deinterlacer is that primitive. Where did you get this information?

6168 Dead This Morning :eek:

I received my 6168 on Tuesday... working fine (Great PQ!) through last night, but then this morning... nothing. Green lamp light blinks when I turn it on, but the picture never comes on. It tries a couple more times and then all 3 indicators on the round power button blink. The manual says that it indicates a lamp problem. I popped open the back and removed and re-seeded the lamp, but same thing. I've contacted Samsung and service rep will be here tomorrow with new bulb. If that's not it, I'll be looking for a replacement.

So... had a day and a half of "teasing" with this great set and now back to the 26". Hope it's just a faulty lamp! I'll update the group tomorrow.

Bill

It may NOT be the bulb. This happened to me once and I just unplugged it for 30 seconds and then plugged it back in and it worked fine. I ahd the a PC and the TV connected to an UPS and foucnd that once I disconnected the PC from the UPS, the problem went away. It may have been a coincidence though. In any event, it only happened twice and then never happened again (and it's been about a year). Having said this, still have Samsung come and take a look, but just try disconnecting it first.

I'm skeptical that Samsung's deinterlacer is that primitive. Where did you get this information?

Ha! What else would you want it to do?

That is the beauty of 1080i on a 1080p display - no real processing is required
other than simply buffering the two 540 frames and reconstructing the 1080p
image...

Concerning the HDMI Not Supported message when using the 950, I was just looking at the 950 Manual and noticed a sentence that says if you don't select a language by pressing a number that corresponds with the language you want, "the settings may change whenever you turn the power on or off." I know that when I set up my device, I just hit enter and did NOT select a number. That may be the reason that the settings (like on screen messaging) are not retained. Is there anyone that did select the number and still is not able to permanently disable on screen messaging?

I have seen lip sync issues on my 5668...HOWEVER, i went to my other CRTs and they also had the same issue. Synopsis, Source material. I have seen lip sync isuues on all my CRTs in recent history with and without and AVR hooked up. I attribute all this to source material.

I am several pages behind (been playing with the TV ;), but felt I should chime in with this as a reference....

I have the 5678 and, let me say, that the picture is really quite nice. HD and DVD quality is very pleasing with truly amazing colors. There are some issues of black crush, but part of that is my mostly untuned picture settings and the rest is likely due to the source material (Law and Order seems to like to hide half of people's faces quite often, but others shows look OK). Overall contrast is surprisingly good.

Now the bad... I should first remind folks that the a/v sync issue is ALL about running the audio through an AVR, there should not be (and isn't) any issue when using the TV's native speakers.

That being said. I first notices a "small" A/V sync when watching some DVDs (mostly LOTR stuff). When I say small, I mean that I had to look for it. It was probably only a handful of frames off so it was only noticable when there was a closeup on faces and they were saying something that required large lip movements (like a "p", for example). This was not much of an issue and I could easily ignore it. Last night watching Leno, however, was *horrible*. The lag was at least 1/4 of a second if not more, even my wife could see it and thought it was painful to watch (and she is not a stickler for this sort of thing at all). It was clearly channel dependent, as there was no (noticable) issue on non-HD channels. It was also *not* source dependent as the lag went away when I used the TV speakers rather than the AVR (so much for hoping that Sammy was smart enough to purposely lag the digital output in order to sync things properly! who cares that it doesn't accept 5.1 on the HDMI anymore :( ). I had hoped that it might be an isolated incident on Leno, but when I waited for Conan to start, it was just as bad...

I will have to check some other channel's HD stuff tonight.

(BTW, Conan is one ugly dude in HD!)

nother question: which should I allow to do the upconverting: the sammy or the 8300? nother question: i thought firewire was only for audio, and if its for video it can accept 1080p??? which should I allow to do the upconverting: the sammy or the 8300?: Same as before. Determine which does the best job and go with it. (I'd expect the new TV to do a better job than the STB but you never know until you test.)

i thought firewire was only for audio, and if its for video it can accept 1080p?: Firewire can do video. The only place I've seen this is with camcorders and the high def video tape format (with pre-recorded HD movies and for recording HD). These devices typically use an MPEG compression scheme. I was told that the compressed signal sent by the high def video tape players is 1080p 24fps and that the initial implementations of firewire do not have the bandwidth for 1080p@60hz. Tony's earlier comment puts the 1080p bit in doubt but the rest should be correct.

I don't know of any broadcast at 1080p24fps and doubt if there will be.

Broadcast is at 1080i60fps which your Samsung receives just fine...

It will de-interlace to 1080p30fps and repeat each frame twice since the
Samsung can only display at 1080p60fps.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought that Broadcast is 1080i 60 fields per second (which are each 540 lines) and 30 fps (frames per second). Note that I am only talking about networks that broadcast in 1080 (for ESPN, FOX, ABC, I recognize they all broadcast in 720p60 frames per second). It was also my understanding that when deinterlacing, the set buffers one 540 field and then inserts it with the next 540 field to show 30 full frames per second (fps). I suppose that this means it is "repeating each frame" twice, but I don't view it that way. Since 1080i is meant to be 30 frames per second, it's not repeating anything, it's simply showing it for the *proper* amount of time. That is why with 3:2 pulldown it inserts frames where necessary to make 24 fps (frames per second) appear as 30 frames per second, not as 60fps. Would a 1080i DVD actually be 48fps (fields per second)? If so, would the set deinterlace this to 24fps (frames per second) and then insert frames for the pulldown to get to 30fps?

Has anyone with the new 1080p tv's adjusted gamma in the service menu? I read it should be dropped to 0 (or was it 1?) in another thread I believe but has anyone done it with the 1080p models?

That is the beauty of 1080i on a 1080p display - no real processing is required
other than simply buffering the two 540 frames and reconstructing the 1080p
image...

No, the beauty of 1080i on 1080p is that you don't have to *scale*. I am no expert but I think you need to do some research on deinterlacers -- it is not as simple as you think. The two 540-line "fields" are from different points in time. If there is motion in that time interval, you can't just slap the two fields together to form a single 1080-line frame -- you'll see combing artifacts because alternating lines don't match up with each other.

Here is an example of different kinds of deinterlacing algorithms:

http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/Help/

Some obviously require a significant amount of processing and companies likely have proprietary algorithms. Good deinterlacers will adapt and switch algorithms depending on the video stream (for example, deinterlacing 1080i that was originally 1080p24 is a special case).

Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought that Broadcast is 1080i 60 fields per second (which are each 540 lines) and 30 fps (frames per second). Note that I am only talking about networks that broadcast in 1080 (for ESPN, FOX, ABC, I recognize they all broadcast in 720p60 frames per second). It was also my understanding that when deinterlacing, the set buffers one 540 field and then inserts it with the next 540 field to show 30 full frames per second (fps). I suppose that this means it is "repeating each frame" twice, but I don't view it that way. Since 1080i is meant to be 30 frames per second, it's not repeating anything, it's simply showing it for the *proper* amount of time. That is why with 3:2 pulldown it inserts frames where necessary to make 24 fps (frames per second) appear as 30 frames per second, not as 60fps. Would a 1080i DVD actually be 48fps (fields per second)? If so, would the set deinterlace this to 24fps (frames per second) and then insert frames for the pulldown to get to 30fps?I had to go back and check my notes but your description is how I "learned" it. This also illustrates why deinterlacing has to be more than sticking the two fields together. Each field is captured 1/60th of a second apart. For stills or slow motion, this is not a problem. For fast motion, the images will be displaced during the 1/60th of a second. Thus, in order to get good PQ you'll need deinterlacing algorithms that account for motion in the least. The optimist in me wants to believe that one reason Samsung is having the audio delay problem is that it's scaler/deinterlacer is top notch and doing the job correctly, which takes time. No data what so ever to support this...

(Added in edit: Slow typist. I should have checked again before posting. I see Spear already covered this info and did a better job of it.)

Has anyone with the new 1080p tv's adjusted gamma in the service menu? I read it should be dropped to 0 (or was it 1?) in another thread I believe but has anyone done it with the 1080p models?

I have lowered the Gamma to 0 just to see if I could do it. The default is 2. I didn't spend a lot of time comparing since the adjustable controls (brightness, contrast, ...) get reset when you enter the service menu. I'll have to go back and do a more thorough evaluation after a few weeks when I do some calibration with DVE or AVIA.

No, the beauty of 1080i on 1080p is that you don't have to *scale*. I am no expert but I think you need to do some research on deinterlacers -- it is not as simple as you think. The two 540-line "fields" are from different points in time. If there is motion in that time interval, you can't just slap the two fields together to form a single 1080-line frame -- you'll see combing artifacts because alternating lines don't match up with each other.

Here is an example of different kinds of deinterlacing algorithms:

http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/Help/

Some obviously require a significant amount of processing and companies likely have proprietary algorithms. Good deinterlacers will adapt and switch algorithms depending on the video stream (for example, deinterlacing 1080i that was originally 1080p24 is a special case).

The 540 fields are from different points in time *only* if the original
source was recorded or mastered in 1080i. Then you have a 540 frame
at t0 and a 540 frame at t0+1 and no matter how good the processing
there will be some temporal artifacts.

If the original source was 1080p30fps and then broadcast at 1080i60fps
it can simply be reconstructed as I described.

[QUOTE=profjoe]
"Now the bad... I should first remind folks that the a/v sync issue is ALL about running the audio through an AVR, there should not be (and isn't) any issue when using the TV's native speakers."

Well, not ALLways. Last nite I turned off the AVR and watched through the 6168 TV speakers only. Saw lips out of synch on an SD movie as bad as any I've seen through the AVR. Clearly there are synch issues from the source and/or STB too. (Have seen this several times on my old CRT set before I got the DLP.) I did not make note to see if this was audio BEHIND or AHEAD of the video. The AVR synch issues are always audio AHEAD of video. I've ordered a new AVR (Yamaha 5840 = low cost) which claims to have adjustable audio delay (0-160ms) and hopefully will be able to overcome most of the synch issues where audio is AHEAD.

Still delighted with the set. I don't consider any of these synch issues to be Samsung's fault - but it would be nice if they could pass a synched 5.1 sound stream through to the AVR.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought that Broadcast is 1080i 60 fields per second (which are each 540 lines) and 30 fps (frames per second). Note that I am only talking about networks that broadcast in 1080 (for ESPN, FOX, ABC, I recognize they all broadcast in 720p60 frames per second). It was also my understanding that when deinterlacing, the set buffers one 540 field and then inserts it with the next 540 field to show 30 full frames per second (fps). I suppose that this means it is "repeating each frame" twice, but I don't view it that way. Since 1080i is meant to be 30 frames per second, it's not repeating anything, it's simply showing it for the *proper* amount of time. That is why with 3:2 pulldown it inserts frames where necessary to make 24 fps (frames per second) appear as 30 frames per second, not as 60fps. Would a 1080i DVD actually be 48fps (fields per second)? If so, would the set deinterlace this to 24fps (frames per second) and then insert frames for the pulldown to get to 30fps?

I agree with you 100% Clorox. The repeating each frame twice is to match
the 1080p60fps Samsung 1080p Display ( a frame approx. every 16ms ) since
only 1080p30fps can be constructed from a 1080i60fps source.

The 1080p24fps is exactly as you describe but again the Samsung 1080p DLP
is natively 1080p60fps and everything must be converted to this to display on our
screen. The 1080i48fps could be de-interlaced to 1080p24fps and then using 3:2
pull down mapped to 1080p30fps and by repeating each frame twice to the native
1080p60fps of the Samsung 1080p DLP display.

Did a search on "video lag" on the forum and found over 500 hits. Just about every one concerned a Samsung DLP. Just don't understand why Samsung won't invest in fixing this problem by using better components or another company's scaler.

Maybe the Samsung posters are just more consciencous. I was at Fry's where they a Panasonic plasma in a HT setup with a high end AVR and 5.1 sound system. They were playing a John Fogerty DVD. It had a very noticable video lip sync lag.

Lee

The 540 fields are from different points in time *only* if the original
source was recorded or mastered in 1080i. Then you have a 540 frame
at t0 and a 540 frame at t0+1 and no matter how good the processing
there will be some temporal artifacts.

A good interlacer will still give you a better picture than one that just slaps the fields together.

If the original source was 1080p30fps and then broadcast at 1080i60fps
it can simply be reconstructed as I described.

Yes, but the point of discussion is what Samsung's deinterlacer is currently doing for 1080i. I don't think 1080i cameras today start off with 1080p30 so your claim that Samsung is just combining 540 fields (not frames) and displaying twice would result in poor performance. I certainly don't see any obvious interlacing artifacts when I watch 1080i using the internal tuners and I can definitely see them when watching 1080i using my HTPC (through VGA) with its deinterlacer turned off. That's why I think that Samsung has a more sophisticated deinterlacer than you claim.

If the original source was 1080p30fps and then broadcast at 1080i60fps it can simply be reconstructed as I described. Obviously, I'm not the expert but I thought the format for 1080i broadcasts today is 30fps, not 60fps. Are there any 1080i60fps broadcasts? That could be the reason for the disconnects...

A good interlacer will still give you a better picture than one that just slaps the fields together.



Yes, but the point of discussion is what Samsung's deinterlacer is currently doing for 1080i. I don't think 1080i cameras today start off with 1080p30 so your claim that Samsung is just combining 540 fields (not frames) and displaying twice would result in poor performance. I certainly don't see any obvious interlacing artifacts when I watch 1080i using the internal tuners and I can definitely see them when watching 1080i using my HTPC (through VGA) with its deinterlacer turned off. That's why I think that Samsung has a more sophisticated deinterlacer than you claim.

It is very possible the Samsung can detect when the t0 of each 540 frame is
different as in the case of using a 1080i camera for recording and processes
it different. But I suspect that most of the content we see on Discovery HD, etc.
was recorded with professional 1080p cameras and *all* of the movie content we see
broadcast on HBOHD, SHOWHD was film transferred to a 1080p medium
for broadcast. Doing anything other than, as you put it, "slapping frames
together", for a source that was originally 1080p, is unncessary.

Even though there, aren't any 1080P broadcasts OTA, it's possible, and the Samsung can accept it right???

In the current and probably for the very long term ATSC standard, there is NO 1080P/60FPS mode. It will not happen unless the standard is changed and this one was fought over for 15 years and got congress involved. The very badly formatted list below is ALL 18 modes allowed under this broadcast standard.


ATSC Picture Display Formats Format Vertical Scan Lines Horizontal Pixels Aspect Ratio Scan Mode Frame Rate(fps)
HDTV 1080p 1080 1920 16:9 Progressive 24
1080p 1080 1920 16:9 Progressive 30
1080i 1080 1920 16:9 Interlaced 30
720p 720 1280 16:9 Progressive 24
720p 720 1280 16:9 Progressive 30
720p 720 1280 16:9 Progressive 60
EDTV 480p 480 704 16:9 Progressive 24
480p 480 704 16:9 Progressive 30
480p 480 704 16:9 Progressive 60
480p 480 704 4:3 Progressive 24
480p 480 704 4:3 Progressive 30
480p 480 704 4:3 Progressive 60
480p 480 640 4:3 Progressive 24
480p 480 640 4:3 Progressive 30
480p 480 640 4:3 Progressive 60
SDTV 480i 480 704 16:9 Interlaced 30
480i 480 704 4:3 Interlaced 30
480i 480 640 4:3 Interlaced 30

Lee

I highly doubt that 1080P/60FPS will be supported by ATSC as a broadcast standard in the near or distant future.

1080P/60FPS is, though, a computer format that is widely used today. Anybody who has a WUXGA monitor is using it in 1920x1200 or 1920x1080/60, and probably using DVI which is compatible with HDMI.

I have another question for our fellow readers.

One way I view 1080p as more beneficial than a 1080i display is that if you watch 60 frames per second 720p (Fox, ABC, ESPN), all the set is doing is scaling this, so you get the fantastic benefit of the fast frame rate which is great for sports viewing.

Of course, a 720p set shows this as well, but for 1080i content a 720p native set has to deinterlace and then downscale 1080i to fit on a 720p set. As a result, 720p sets aren't as good for 1080i source material (lower spatial resolution).

Now, with a 1080i set that wants to display 720p, how is this processed? Isn't 720p interlaced and then scaled to 1080i, effectively throwing out half the information? That seems like a huge benefit to having a 1080p display, and I have seldom seen this mentioned before as a benefit of our 1080p sets at all.

I have another question for our fellow readers.

One way I view 1080p as more beneficial than a 1080i display is that if you watch 60 frames per second 720p (Fox, ABC, ESPN), all the set is doing is scaling this, so you get the fantastic benefit of the fast frame rate which is great for sports viewing.

Of course, a 720p set shows this as well, but for 1080i content a 720p native set has to deinterlace and then downscale 1080i to fit on a 720p set. As a result, 720p sets aren't as good.

Now, with a 1080i set that wants to display 720p, how is this processed? Isn't 720p interlaced and then scaled to 1080i, effectively throwing out half the information? That seems like a huge benefit to having a 1080p display, and I have seldom seen this mentioned before as a benefit of our 1080p sets at all.

I don't believe the Samsung would convert it to 1080i first but would upconvert
the 720p to 1080p to display.

I was in the Mag HiFi inYorba Linda yesterday.Seen the 6168 setup was stb over directtv watching American Chopper.The TV was set up about a week ago and the settings were set from out of the box.How I know? I asked for the remote and he had to retrieve it out of the bag it was sent in.Never was used.Anyway my viewing distance comprised of 18" yes 18" to 25'.At 18" i seen a grainy picture and that was it.No pixelation none.Was very impressive.The Blacks were very deep and could see the creases in the t-shirts.2 seens really stuck out.1 the dude was wearing blue tint sunglasses and i could see the camera man in the reflectio,it was if i was looking into a mirror amazing.The othe seen was they were blowing off steam playing golf.The camerma man was in the ball collection machine,the cage was as if you were there looking out yourself.The cage was black as black and could reach out and touch it.The most amazing was these guys were trying to hit this guy and 1 did.You could see the ball coming and hit,cage shook and the clarity was unbelievable,and the ball bounced back to the guys hitting it.I seen the ball on its entire path.What can I say WOW.I hope the 88's are that fabulous.My 2 cents

I don't believe the Samsung would convert it to 1080i first but would upconvert
the 720p to 1080p to display.

That's what I mean. The 1080p sets are better because all they do is scale the 720p signal, so you don't lose anything. 1080i sets would make 720p content look worse because they are throwing picture information in the trash.

I don't believe the Samsung would convert it to 1080i first but would upconvert
the 720p to 1080p to display.

I think he was agreeing with you--he was saying that if you had a 1080i display (*not* a 1080p) it would have to interlace the 720p, thus throwing away information, whereas the 1080p display wouldn't.

Now the bad... I should first remind folks that the a/v sync issue is ALL about running the audio through an AVR, there should not be (and isn't) any issue when using the TV's native speakers.

That being said. I first notices a "small" A/V sync when watching some DVDs (mostly LOTR stuff). When I say small, I mean that I had to look for it. It was probably only a handful of frames off so it was only noticable when there was a closeup on faces and they were saying something that required large lip movements (like a "p", for example). This was not much of an issue and I could easily ignore it. Last night watching Leno, however, was *horrible*. The lag was at least 1/4 of a second if not more, even my wife could see it and thought it was painful to watch (and she is not a stickler for this sort of thing at all). It was clearly channel dependent, as there was no (noticable) issue on non-HD channels.

Before my set died this morning (see previous post), I too noticed awful lag on Leno, but it was through the set's internal speakers. (Wasn't listening through AVR) It was only on that channel. I figured it was a source issue because of that. I also had previously noticed some minor lag issues on other channels (including SD), but I started looking very closely at my Toshiba 26" CRT and I began picking up lip-sync problems on it as well! I'm guessing that I just never noticed because the screen was small and SD. The Leno thing though was pretty bad! Should have compared it right away to the SD broadcast but I didn't.

... waiting on new bulb in Kansas City :o

nother question: I have an Onkyo SP-502 (max 480P output), should I connect it via s-video or component (since I don't need component video)?

nother question: Does anyone know if it takes the Sammy longer to deinterlace or upscale. I have my xBox hoocked up via component. I want to know what willcreate the lease amount of lag, 720P-1080P or 1080i-1080P?

IS THERE, OR IS THERE NOT CURRENTLY 1080P BROADCASTS OTA??? :confused: :confused: :confused: :D

It may NOT be the bulb. This happened to me once and I just unplugged it for 30 seconds and then plugged it back in and it worked fine. I ahd the a PC and the TV connected to an UPS and foucnd that once I disconnected the PC from the UPS, the problem went away. It may have been a coincidence though. In any event, it only happened twice and then never happened again (and it's been about a year). Having said this, still have Samsung come and take a look, but just try disconnecting it first.

Thanks. I tried unplugging and also (note to ccouper)... tried pulling out the bulb and putting it back in. Still nothing. But thanks for the suggestions! If anyone has any other ideas, would sure be glad to hear them!

... HD-less in Kansas City

I think he was agreeing with you--he was saying that if you had a 1080i display (*not* a 1080p) it would have to interlace the 720p, thus throwing away information, whereas the 1080p display wouldn't.

Yes, thanks :-)

To everyone who have pre-ordered and have their set, what date did you preorder on??? Just curious cause I could have preordered but decided not to. :mad: :mad: :mad:

To everyone who have pre-ordered and have their set, what date did you preorder on??? Just curious cause I could have preordered but decided not to. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Pre-ordered on 6/6 got mine last week.

IS THERE, OR IS THERE NOT CURRENTLY 1080P BROADCASTS OTA??? :confused: :confused: :confused: :D
NOT. ... and that will be true for a long time.

It is very possible the Samsung can detect when the t0 of each 540 frame is
different as in the case of using a 1080i camera for recording and processes
it different.

(By the way, the correct term is "field" not "frame". The 1080i standard is 60 fields per second, 30 frames per second.)

But I suspect that most of the content we see on Discovery HD, etc.
was recorded with professional 1080p cameras and *all* of the movie content we see
broadcast on HBOHD, SHOWHD was film transferred to a 1080p medium
for broadcast. Doing anything other than, as you put it, "slapping frames
together", for a source that was originally 1080p, is unncessary.

It doesn't matter how much material is captured with 1080i cameras vs. 1080p/movie cameras -- the TV still needs to have the ability to deinterlace the 1080i-camera streams properly. Besides, the TV still has to handle a ton of NTSC/480i broadcasts that need more than your simple deinterlacer.

At least you now admit Samsung's deinterlacer could be more sophisticated than you initially claimed so I'll leave it at that.

That said, is anyone experiencing any lip synch problems with the HR10-250 DirecTV HD-Tivo receiver with video going to TV via HDMI or component and audio going to AV receiver via digital optical connection?
I have an HR10-250 connected to an HL-R5668W via HDMI with an optical connection to a Yamaha 2400. I did experience some lip synch problems, but nothing horrible. However, I did decide to add a 130ms delay which cured the lip synch problem on the TiVo as well as on my Samsung (950) DVD player.

Tentative Conclusions:

1. No lip sync or 2.0/5.1 issues because of TV video processing/ conversion using optical output with either the cable card or over the air reception.

2. HDMI audio is only transmitted by the TV via the optical output as 2.0.

3. Amount of lip sync delay for an external HT receiver is variable and one fixed delay most probably will not suffice for all situations.

If these "conclusions" are NOT valid, please explain why. I am not considering lip sync or other problems which strictly come from the source.

Does anybody have an opinion on when I should buy my HLR6168W??? I'm holding out for the bugs to be killed first... :eek:

3. Amount of lip sync delay for an external HT receiver is variable and one fixed delay most probably will not suffice for all situations.


Based on my experience so far with the 5678 (and having now caught up and read the rest of the thread), I think this one is unfortunatlely true.

I thing something like the felston will *help*, but you might have to keep adjusting it to get it right....annoying :(

I just realized why I am probably not experiencing any video lag -
I am only sending 1080i via HDMI to the Samsung 6168 and therefore
the only processing is simple de-interlacing - no upscaling or
other conversion processing is occuring...

Tony:
I have NeuNeo and am doing the same. But I noticed video lag of as much as 50ms. I could compensate it at AV level. (I have TV on component not HDMI but the argument still holds)

I have been watching DVDs. Different DVDs have different lag. But it is not from source because TV speakers are do not exhibit lag.

Tony:
I have NeuNeo and am doing the same. But I noticed video lag of as much as 50ms. I could compensate it at AV level. (I have TV on component not HDMI but the argument still holds)

I have been watching DVDs. Different DVDs have different lag. But it is not from source because TV speakers are do not exhibit lag.
So this lag is only happening w/HDMI??? :confused:

North Jersey... thanks! My problem is that the "guide+info" startup on the 8300 doesn't work (maybe Time Warner here in KC has it deactivated?) So I guess I'm wondering if the "settings" menu that I can bring up (a Time Warner thing?) which has an option to specify outputs (you can select one or any combination of the 4 res options) is doing the same thing... so that by selecting just 1080i, it would upconvert everything to that res.

Thanks again! BillFWIW, I have the same problem on my 8300HD (also Time Warner) ... using that method to get into the setup doesn't work at all.

FWIW, I have the same problem on my 8300HD (also Time Warner) ... using that method to get into the setup doesn't work at all.

My brother just got a 6168 based on my recommendation and he also has the exact same problem with the 8300HD. Does anyone have a solution?

FWIW, I have the same problem on my 8300HD (also Time Warner) ... using that method to get into the setup doesn't work at all.
Why don't you just call Time Warner, they should help you, it's not like one of their secret menus or something. Speaking of secret menus, does anyone know the combination on how to get into the menu that lets you find signal strength???
-Cheers!

My brother just got a 6168 based on my recommendation and he also has the exact same problem with the 8300HD. Does anyone have a solution?
If your doing HDMI maybe it involves copyright protection???

For those people reporting lip synch problems with HD TV channels it would be helpful if you would mention the HD source (OTA, Comcast cable, DirecTV, Dish, etc.) and also your HD receiver STB make and model.

That would be very helpful (plus your location and service provider), but even more helpful would be not reporting lip sync problems with specific shows unless you can verify that it is a TV problem by using a separate TV (such as a CRT TV in kitchen or bedroom). Broadcast sync problems are going to be occuring every day on some programs. Some service providers or networks will be bigger offenders.

To everyone who have pre-ordered and have their set, what date did you preorder on??? Just curious cause I could have preordered but decided not to. :mad: :mad: :mad:

TV Authority PowerBuy disscussion should really be done in the PowerBuy thread.

nother question:
IS THERE, OR IS THERE NOT CURRENTLY 1080P BROADCASTS OTA??? :confused: :confused: :confused: :D

See my post above. The short answer: not now, and probably not ever at 60 FPS. Longer answer: it is not part of the ATSC standard imposed on broadcasters and will not be changed for a long time, it ever. It is at 30 FPS, but nobody is using it, and there is not incentive to do so.

Lee

TV Authority PowerBuy disscussion should really be done in the PowerBuy thread.
Didn't know there was one, sorry, I'll delete my message.

Spear, you have a PM.

John

Tentative Conclusions:


2. HDMI audio is only transmitted by the TV via the optical output as 2.0.


If these "conclusions" are NOT valid, please explain why. I am not considering lip sync or other problems which strictly come from the source.
The only HDMI audio I can get the TV to accept from my HD DVD950 is PCM. Maybe others have gotten Bitstream support on STB and other devices? None the less I have never heard of anyone getting more that stereo out of it.

I reported red blotching all over the screen on my HDMI inputs of my 6168. The samsung tech guy came in today. He suspects that it is the digital board and like FLAPilot reported it is on back order. So, I have called TVA and asked them to send me a new set. Atleast, I can enjoy the TV until the new one arrives as the component inputs look stunning too!

FLAPilot - Did you get your new one? How does that TV work?

The only HDMI audio I can get the TV to accept from my HD DVD950 is PCM. Maybe others have gotten Bitstream support on STB and other devices? None the less I have never heard of anyone getting more that stereo out of it.
Hey, I'm a noob, fill me in...What's PCM?

A simple Google search reveals:

Pulse code modulation (PCM) is a digital scheme for transmitting analog data. The signals in PCM are binary; that is, there are only two possible states, represented by logic 1 (high) and logic 0 (low). This is true no matter how complex the analog waveform happens to be. Using PCM, it is possible to digitize all forms of analog data, including full-motion video, voices, music, telemetry, and virtual reality (VR).

We are now getting dangerously close to the Owner's thread passing the PB in terms of posts. Guess there's been a whole lot to say in the past month! Keep up the info and I'll chime in when my 5668 arrives.

So, it might be the networks fault when the show comes back from commercial and it is 4:3 upconverted instead of HD?

Sorry...I read that wrong. If they are coming out of a break with the wrong aspect ratio, it is the affiliates fault. I thought he was referring to the breaks being in 4:3.

I can appreciate the cost. However, it is EXTREMELY annoying when the local station sends out 4:3 upconverted video instead of the 16:9 feed from the network, just so they can put some local news information on the screen at the same time.

Putting up weather alerts for a minute is fine, but my local CBS station likes to put up the alert for the entire 60 minutes of the show. Not only did I have to put up with an upconverted 4:3 representation of the show, but 25% of the screen was blotted out with their damn weather alert.

We make sure that we don't affect the HD feed unless we have to. But keep in mind that this HD thing is new to everyone and stations that have had SOPs in place for years are now learning that things that worked in analog don't translate very well in HD. Hopefully the engineers in your market actively communicate with their HD community. That is what lead me to the forums, I keep up with what they want, think, or object to here in the local reception thread. We also try and help them with any issues they may be having.

E

I have aquestion about the screen. When there is a bright background the screen looks kind of sparkly, very tiny dot as though the surface of the picture is very rough. Is this how it's supposed to look?
Also when I put up a bright white or colored screen I can see what looks like specs of dust from the optics. I can see at least a dozen places with this and one spot has what looks like a hair or a thread from material. Is this normal for both these thing or should I call Samsung?
The rough screen look reminds me of the 42" 720P set and it is very annoying. I don't remember seeing it in the store on the 6178 in the store, but I may not have noticed it since I was comparing it to the 42" and that screen looked terrible. It just makes what should be a smooth looking picture look like the items have a rough surface.

I can appreciate the cost. However, it is EXTREMELY annoying when the local station sends out 4:3 upconverted video instead of the 16:9 feed from the network, just so they can put some local news information on the screen at the same time.

Putting up weather alerts for a minute is fine, but my local CBS station likes to put up the alert for the entire 60 minutes of the show. Not only did I have to put up with an upconverted 4:3 representation of the show, but 25% of the screen was blotted out with their damn weather alert.


We make sure that we don't affect the HD feed unless we have to. But keep in mind that this HD thing is new to everyone and stations that have had SOPs in place for years are now learning that things that worked in analog don't translate very well in HD. Hopefully the engineers in your market actively communicate with their HD community. That is what lead me to the forums, I keep up with what they want, think, or object to here in the local reception thread. We also try and help them with any issues they may be having.

E

I like your company's attitude! Last I heard, my local CBS station (KRQE) is up FOR SALE. Your company should buy it :p

John

Why don't you just call Time Warner, they should help you, it's not like one of their secret menus or something. Speaking of secret menus, does anyone know the combination on how to get into the menu that lets you find signal strength???
-Cheers!LOL, because I don't love the idea of my local TW keeping me on hold for 20 minutes only to tell me afterwards that the disabled it on purpose.

Seriously, though, I probably will call them just to make sure.

I have a question about the screen. When there is a bright background the screen looks kind of sparkly, very tiny dot as though the surface of the picture is very rough. Is this how it's supposed to look?I believe so ... I see the same grain on my screen as well, but it's only noticeable on brighter/lighter floods of color. Most noticeable on white. I've always assumed the "sparkly grain" was simply a function of the light passing through (and maybe refracting a bit?) the screen, and that it was a natural outcome. Doesn't bother me much, but obviously YMMV.

Also when I put up a bright white or colored screen I can see what looks like specs of dust from the optics. I can see at least a dozen places with this and one spot has what looks like a hair or a thread from material. Is this normal for both these thing or should I call Samsung?That doesn't sound normal, if they're different from the typical screen grain/texture discussed above. Especially if they're not uniformly distributed. I'd make a call.

The rough screen look reminds me of the 42" 720P set and it is very annoying. I don't remember seeing it in the store on the 6178 in the store, but I may not have noticed it since I was comparing it to the 42" and that screen looked terrible. It just makes what should be a smooth looking picture look like the items have a rough surface.I assume you've got a 50" or 56", right? I've got the 5078, and with the smaller image size the screen texture surely has a greater impact upon what you see. However, IMHO, I don't feel that the 5078's screen looks anywhere near as distracting as the 42" 720p screen. Hopefully it won't bug you for long, but perhaps your eyesight is just a lot sharper than mine, or it simply just bugs you more. I can understand that.

wtr1, You seem to be zeroing in on this sync issue. This TV is looking like it has a problem. There are even post by people seeing lip sync w/ no AVS being used. At the very least I thought we were passed that issue...now am not so sure. I have seen lip sync in a HLP I returned. How people can accept this, to me is beyond belief. Saying some people look for it and are more sensitive I don`t buy either. People that buy a $3000-$4000 TV and say its not too bad, I can live w/ it...I quess to each there own. A thread was started talking about solutions, which I thought was a great idea. While people have said they see lip sync w/ other TV brands, why is this issue SO prevalent on these Samsung threads? Are we Samsung buyers more sensitive then all other buyers? I have delayed my purchase. I still want this TV, I truly believe for the money there is no better picture. At this point am starting to feel like nobody admits to taking steroids, but we all know they do. Have we caught Samsung AGAIN??

Help Me!

I have spent so much time trying to get my PC to display at 1080p! Here is my configuration...

Sammy 6168
P4 / WinXP
ATI All-In-Wonder 2006
Latest Catalyst software from ATI website

Here is what happens... I can get into 720p mode just fine. When I try to go to 1080p, it takes some working, but I can do it. I had to dispose of my nice blue-jeans VGA cable and use a cheap cable to get this to work.

It does not recognize the Extended Display Information Data correctly. It will recognize the maximum resolution at 1600x1200. If I choose 1600x1200, it displays fine and fills the screen.

If I uncheck EDID, then I can force the display to 1080p. This does not display properly at all. This is strange. It will display the entire screen, but in a horizontally compressed and only taking up a portion of the screen. At first it looked like 4:3, but I compared it to a SD 4:3 signal, and this takes up less screen space.

I then placed a 1080p wallpaper on my Windows background. It displayed the entire background (I can see the entire picture), but it is still severly horiztonally compressed (it displays is maybe 2/3 of the width of the screen.)

I tried adjusting the Sammy adjustments in PC. I also tried adjusting the settings in the Catalyst software to no avail. In fact, one time I was adjusting the screen size / position in Catalyst and the Sammy went into Source Unsupported mode and I was unable to get out of it until I hooked up my monitor to reset the settings.

Help please?! Thanks!

Help Me!

I have spent so much time trying to get my PC to display at 1080p! Here is my configuration...

Sammy 6168
P4 / WinXP
ATI All-In-Wonder 2006
Latest Catalyst software from ATI website

Here is what happens... I can get into 720p mode just fine. When I try to go to 1080p, it takes some working, but I can do it. I had to dispose of my nice blue-jeans VGA cable and use a cheap cable to get this to work.

It does not recognize the Extended Display Information Data correctly. It will recognize the maximum resolution at 1600x1200. If I choose 1600x1200, it displays fine and fills the screen.

If I uncheck EDID, then I can force the display to 1080p. This does not display properly at all. This is strange. It will display the entire screen, but in a horizontally compressed and only taking up a portion of the screen. At first it looked like 4:3, but I compared it to a SD 4:3 signal, and this takes up less screen space.

I then placed a 1080p wallpaper on my Windows background. It displayed the entire background (I can see the entire picture), but it is still severly horiztonally compressed (it displays is maybe 2/3 of the width of the screen.)

I tried adjusting the Sammy adjustments in PC. I also tried adjusting the settings in the Catalyst software to no avail. In fact, one time I was adjusting the screen size / position in Catalyst and the Sammy went into Source Unsupported mode and I was unable to get out of it until I hooked up my monitor to reset the settings.

Help please?! Thanks!
Are the screen ratios the same?

Has anyone been able to get 1080P to work with an iScanHD or HD+? If so what were your settings?

For those parties interested in gaming:

The xbox 360 will offer a VGA HD cable, this means it would go into an input accepting 1080p most likely kicking off your computer (though the specs have long stated that the games will all be either 720p or 1080i). This is taken from the accessories that they have announced for launch. link: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/25/news_6129704.html?tag=lastword_xbox360_headline

here's the quick quote:
"VGA HD Cable - If you want to play with HD graphics, this is the cable that you'll need.

Component AV Cable - For players that want to use component AV.

S-Video AV Cable - For players that want to play with an S-video output. "

and about the box base contents:
"No cables for hooking up to a monitor were listed."

UPDATE: I just recalled that most pc users/gamers have said that lag was not an issue with the vga port.... so maybe its a good thing if you can switch vga, which i think that receivers had at one point but has since been taken off.

There are even post by people seeing lip sync w/ no AVS being used. At the very least I thought we were passed that issue...now am not so sure. I have seen lip sync in a HLP I returned. How people can accept this, to me is beyond belief.

I can tell you that after watching my 6178 both off air (720p and 1080i) and with a 950 connected via HDMI, only to the tv and no AVR, I am not seeing any lip-sync issues. Other folks may be seeing it, but I have not seen any yet and would not put up with it if I had.

FWIW, I have the same problem on my 8300HD (also Time Warner) ... using that method to get into the setup doesn't work at all.

Just call TW, they are totally cool with walking you through it. Their techies are the best I have ever encountered.

The maximum width for the Samsung TR46X3 stand is 52.4"

So that means the 5668 will have substantial overhang right?

Just call TW, they are totally cool with walking you through it. Their techies are the best I have ever encountered.

I called TW and their technition said that the SA 8300HD that they were distributing here in the Kansas City area does not have the software option to access the HD setup wizard. He indicated though that using the "settings" options for output allows you to select the rseolution to output to set. He said I should select all 4 (1080i, 720p, 480i, and 480p) and let the set upconvert.

... patiently waiting for new bulb in KC

The maximum width for the Samsung TR46X3 stand is 52.4"

So that means the 5668 will have substantial overhang right?
All the specs I've seen for the 5668 say the width is 52.4"

Sounds like a perfect match!

For those parties interested in gaming:

The xbox 360 will offer a VGA HD cable, this means it would go into an input accepting 1080p most likely kicking off your computer (though the specs have long stated that the games will all be either 720p or 1080i). This is taken from the accessories that they have announced for launch. link: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/25/news_6129704.html?tag=lastword_xbox360_headline

here's the quick quote:
"VGA HD Cable - If you want to play with HD graphics, this is the cable that you'll need.

Component AV Cable - For players that want to use component AV.

S-Video AV Cable - For players that want to play with an S-video output. "

and about the box base contents:
"No cables for hooking up to a monitor were listed."

UPDATE: I just recalled that most pc users/gamers have said that lag was not an issue with the vga port.... so maybe its a good thing if you can switch vga, which i think that receivers had at one point but has since been taken off.


This is very interesting; thanks for posting this! :)

This is definitely good news to me as most of my worrying has been about how this $4K TV was going to play with Xbox and Xbox 360 in particular. This news tells me planning and forethought went to to this to make sure it was compatible with Xbox 360. It just makes sense really, since Samsung and Microsoft are ''partnering' so to speak, and Microsoft's REAL plans for the Xbox 360 is WAY more than gaming and as a complete multimedia device. They may be planning to stream bandwidth through the X360 wide enough to carry 1080P HDTV signals (in the future). Ya never know.................... ;)

:D For the posters that incessantly remind us of sync issues like we are BLIND (or Deaf) a fix has only been posted about 50 times or more to either upgrade the AVR with delays or buy the FELSTON product to correct it or perhaps a $13K Sony may suit you better or return it or cancel your order.

Whining about it is not going to resolve it - doing something about it will but the advice to resolve the issue goes unheeded. If you find it a deal breaker so what - go buy a different TV - beating it is not going to help anything. Members come here to get advice and help and it's been offered but some just want to keep whining about the same issues thinking it will resolve itself and that is utter stupidity. Spend the $254 or so to get the sync fix of move on to one fo these so-called brands that don't have it but please move on so we don't have to read about it over and over again.

Beating this horse to death is accomplishing nothing but creating collective CRAP - it's presenting nothing of value - it's been acknowledged and fixes have been provided what the hell do you think Samsung's going to do go back and reverse engineer it at this point? That's utter nonsense at this point of release if your unhappy and unwilling to put up the bucks to resolve the issue go for another model and join that thread - advice is worthless unless ACTION is taken. For me if the PQ is as awesome as the 27 reviews I have then $254 is no big deal to get sound and PQ rather than whining about it on this forum.

If you disagree go back and read this thread from page one and see how many repeat the same issue and IGNORE the advice to correct but instead think perhaps a Super Hero from Samsung will step in and fix the Sync or perhaps wait until next CES and another year and perhaps it'll be resolved. Wait Wait Wait - ACTION resolves issues not WHINING! FELSTON - FELSTON - FELSTON! Or go for a competing brand you think may not have the issue. Good Luck! :D

The TV is rated at 230W. The Tripplite is rated for 450W. This allows me to also have the cable box/DVR on backup also. As for a minimum, I would think you want at least 300W to be on the safe side as you don't want to overload the UPS when it switches to battery power.

If I have an HTPC hooked up to the UPS with a 350W power supply, will I need a more powerful UPS? How do you do the math to determine how much power you'll have in the event of a power outage to turn the tv/computer off?

Any more advice will be appreciated.

FWIW, I have the same problem on my 8300HD (also Time Warner) ... using that method to get into the setup doesn't work at all.

Did you start with the STB in the OFF position?

Step one = Turn the 8300 off
Step two = Guide and Info
Step 3 = follow the prompts

If I have an HTPC hooked up to the UPS with a 350W power supply, will I need a more powerful UPS? How do you do the math to determine how much power you'll have in the event of a power outage to turn the tv/computer off?

Any more advice will be appreciated.

The APC site has a calcuator for UPS size. The Samsung 1080p sets consume 230W of power. You can use the calcuator to size the number of minutes of backup for your system.

I can tell you that after watching my 6178 both off air (720p and 1080i) and with a 950 connected via HDMI, only to the tv and no AVR, I am not seeing any lip-sync issues. Other folks may be seeing it, but I have not seen any yet and would not put up with it if I had.

I also have not seen any lip sync problems with my 5668 using the internal TV speakers. This includes an old DVD player over S-video (480i), the internal tuner (OTA and cable) at 480i, 720p, and 1080i, and with a 8300HD STB (480i, 720p, 1080i) over component.

Today we went to access our local PBS stations (KVIE) digital channels. Could not access any of them, only the analog channel came up. Tried to force it by entering 6-1Enter etc. Nothing. :confused:

Later we found them up in the 40's, but listed as KVIE. Then they disappeared again. Tonight I found what was supposed to be the 3 and 4 channels at 53.3 and 53.4 but I don't think they were them.

I had to re run the auto channel setup to get them back. Plus all the garbage channels I deleted before.

Will have to watch this to make sure it was just some freak event and not a usual occurence for my set.