My daughter likes the TV guide feature. I removed it from the startup but still have it on. Since then it has never updated. At the same time we have been watching the set past 1am each night (its getting addictive) :rolleyes: .

Anyway I noticed that the TV Guide manual says that you cannot use the TV overnight for it to update. I wonder if it just tries around 12-1 am local time and if the set is on it does not bother. Anybody else stay up late?

Just got my 6168 and very happy with the picture quality. I haven't adjust anything yet but wondering what is the best setting in term of color contrast brightness etc. thanks guys

The APC site has a calcuator for UPS size. The Samsung 1080p sets consume 230W of power. You can use the calcuator to size the number of minutes of backup for your system.

I can't seem to find that calculator anywhere on the site? Can you help me out witha link? :confused:

I get rid of any lip synch/lag problems by putting the TV on "Mute".

I can't seem to find that calculator anywhere on the site? Can you help me out witha link? :confused:

Try this one it is easier: http://www.csgnetwork.com/upssizecalc.html

Try this one it is easier: http://www.csgnetwork.com/upssizecalc.html

This stuff is greek to me. I'll have to do some more research...thanks for the link!

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

No, the sceen being displayed is horizontally compressed, so everything looks 'squished'.

Are the screen ratios the same?

So, it everyone's experience so far, what has yielded the best results from a PC? DVI-> HDMI or DVI-> VGA? What have you tried and what do you like the most? What did you not like?

I get rid of any lip synch/lag problems by putting the TV on "Mute".


Wow! I tried that and it works!

Speaking of delays and such, I was in my kitchen cooking something yesterday and had the RCA 30" TV above my refrigerator on watching the news in analog fed by direct cable. I moved into the family room and turned on my 55" Mitsubishi which is fed by the same cable system, but is run through a Motorola DVR. I turned on the same news program that was still on in the kitchen and found there was over a full second delay in the signal coming from the Mits. That just reinforces in my mind that all these synch/delay issues are almost all source related, and are a product of many conflicting new technologies.

So those of you putting off buying your sammy 1080P, you might be waiting a long time for all these issues to be cleared up. In the meantime you're missing out on a great video experience.

Wow! I tried that and it works!

Speaking of delays and such, I was in my kitchen cooking something yesterday and had the RCA 30" TV above my refrigerator on watching the news in analog fed by direct cable. I moved into the family room and turned on my 55" Mitsubishi which is fed by the same cable system, but is run through a Motorola DVR. I turned on the same news program that was still on in the kitchen and found there was over a full second delay in the signal coming from the Mits. That just reinforces in my mind that all these synch/delay issues are almost all source related, and are a product of many conflicting new technologies.

So those of you putting off buying your sammy 1080P, you might be waiting a long time for all these issues to be cleared up. In the meantime you're missing out on a great video experience.

That's why I haven't experienced any lag - my TV has been on mute :-)

No, the sceen being displayed is horizontally compressed, so everything looks 'squished'.

Are you running in "WidePC" mode or "4:3" mode?

[QUOTE=wtr1]Tentative Conclusions:

1. No lip sync or 2.0/5.1 issues because of TV video processing/ conversion using optical output with either the cable card or over the air reception.


It seems obvious that any video signal which needs to be processed would delay the display of the video (variable, delay dependent on speed of processor and amount of processing needed) and therefore out of sync with TH audio. This would hold true for all manufactures.

The only solution to this problem (for non gamers) seems to be:

a. Use audio delay

b. Buy a set that passes 5.1 from the TV audio out and adds the appropriate delay. This must be difficult to do. The manufacture that solves this could have a lock on the market other things being equal.

c. Live with the sync problem. It sounds like most viewers don't see the minimal delay on most sources because it is there on all sources.

The echo test does not lie

wko: I was under the impression that there was NO lip sync if the internal speakers/ optical output were used UNLESS the lip sync came from the source material NOT the TV. If the lip sync comes from the source material I would not blame the TV.

Can those of you you have a new Samsung verify this? I suspect the simple way to check this aspect is to use 2 TVs, your new Samsung and a CRT TV.

You are correct in assuming that I am focused on the lip sync issue. It has become a MAKE or BREAK issue with me. I may be in the market for two 61" TVs. I am simply NOT going to pay that much money and have significant audiio issues. Period!!!!!

Today we went to access our local PBS stations (KVIE) digital channels. Could not access any of them, only the analog channel came up. Tried to force it by entering 6-1Enter etc. Nothing. :confused:

Later we found them up in the 40's, but listed as KVIE. Then they disappeared again. Tonight I found what was supposed to be the 3 and 4 channels at 53.3 and 53.4 but I don't think they were them.

I had to re run the auto channel setup to get them back. Plus all the garbage channels I deleted before.

Will have to watch this to make sure it was just some freak event and not a usual occurence for my set.

Is the station's DTV broadcast channel 53? If so this could be due to the station working on a piece of equipment and a PID getting changed or the PSIP data stream being broken for a few minutes and you getting the original channel number instead of the virtual numbers. Unfortunately this is a shortcoming in the DTV world. We are frequently having people contact us with the problem of our channels are missing from their sets and we tell them to re-scan for DTV channels and they reappear. You would be surprised how many problems this fixes.

wko: I was under the impression that there was NO lip sync if the internal speakers/ optical output were used UNLESS the lip sync came from the source material NOT the TV. If the lip sync comes from the source material I would not blame the TV.

Can those of you you have a new Samsung verify this? I suspect the simple way to check this aspect is to use 2 TVs, your new Samsung and a CRT TV.

You are correct in assuming that I am focused on the lip sync issue. It has become a MAKE or BREAK issue with me. I may be in the market for two 61" TVs. I am simply NOT going to pay that much money and have significant audiio issues. Period!!!!!


Wtr1, I believe your original conclusion is correct. I have the 6168 and the Felston unit. I’ve found that I can leave the audio delay at about 85 ms. regardless of input.
The large screen amplifies any lip sync issues that can be present regardless of source. I’ve noticed considerable variation coming from different broadcasts (no fault of the TV). I have TWC with an SFA 8300 DVR.
If I feel like being picky I may change the audio delay from 85 ms. to match the broadcast but on average the .85 ms. seems good.
IMHO anyone buying a new AVR without audio delay capability is making a mistake. Many newer TVs regardless of manufacture will process the video signal longer than in the past. The only way for an AVR to match the audio to the video is to delay the audio by some amount.

westa: big boy, please don't get your panties in such a wad over potential lip sync issues. Potential lip sync issues ARE a concern to many of us on this board!!! And, I don't think that we REALLY know exactly what "ground truth" is for the many conditions. That is why I used the terms "Tentative Conclusions" yesterday.

For those reports of lip sync with the TV's internal speakers, I think that we still need to verify whether it was a TV problem or a source problem.

Until we know what is REALLY going on:

I'm WATCH'N and LEARN'N!!!!!!

I get rid of any lip synch/lag problems by putting the TV on "Mute".Wow! I tried that and it works!That's why I haven't experienced any lag - my TV has been on mute :-)The echo test does not lie

Maybe the "echo test" just hides a solution? (On the other hand, maybe Westa is right :D )

I'm a HD newbie, so I was wondering if someone could take a look at the attached images.

The images are from the Fox HD broadcast of that new dance show.

I kept seeing rainbows in light colors and wavy lines.

The first picture shows a blonde guy's head. It looks like there's probably a pot of gold somewhere in there.

The second picture shows a couple other judges talking. Check out the wavy lines beside their heads.

Are these issues with the source? Or does the TV need tweaking.

I'm guessing source since last night I watched Conan and saw neither of these issues. Just want to make sure.

Thanks.

Today we went to access our local PBS stations (KVIE) digital channels. Could not access any of them, only the analog channel came up. Tried to force it by entering 6-1Enter etc. Nothing. :confused:

Later we found them up in the 40's, but listed as KVIE. Then they disappeared again. Tonight I found what was supposed to be the 3 and 4 channels at 53.3 and 53.4 but I don't think they were them.

I had to re run the auto channel setup to get them back. Plus all the garbage channels I deleted before.

Will have to watch this to make sure it was just some freak event and not a usual occurence for my set.

That's weird. I can't seem to get any of my PBS DTV channels either. I understand that PBS broadcasts quite a bit in HD. Is that true? That being said, my TV guide also doesn't pick up any guide data, but I'm pretty sure that's not the TVs fault (I think it's something far more sinister). However, I'm exchanging my set for a different reason, so I'll know for sure what the deal is when I get a new set.

I'm a HD newbie, so I was wondering if someone could take a look at the attached images.

The images are from the Fox HD broadcast of that new dance show.

I kept seeing rainbows in light colors and wavy lines.

The first picture shows a blonde guy's head. It looks like there's probably a pot of gold somewhere in there.

The second picture shows a couple other judges talking. Check out the wavy lines beside their heads.

Are these issues with the source? Or does the TV need tweaking.

I'm guessing source since last night I watched Conan and saw neither of these issues. Just want to make sure.

Thanks.

I'm pretty sure "So you think you can dance" on FOX is not HD, so that is probably your biggest problem right there. I have found that many of the SD shows broadcast over digital channels still look like crap. I think this is definitely a source issue. If Conan looks right, I'm sure your TV is fine. Yes, the FOX show is broadcast digitally so it will look better than typical analog SD material, but you are definitely going to see a crappier picture on a show like that than on a true 720p or 1080i show like CSI or Law & Order (or Conan, which is also HD). As the saying goes, crap in, crap out.

Wtr1, I believe your original conclusion is correct. I have the 6168 and the Felston unit. I’ve found that I can leave the audio delay at about 85 ms. regardless of input.
The large screen amplifies any lip sync issues that can be present regardless of source. I’ve noticed considerable variation coming from different broadcasts (no fault of the TV). I have TWC with an SFA 8300 DVR.
If I feel like being picky I may change the audio delay from 85 ms. to match the broadcast but on average the .85 ms. seems good.
IMHO anyone buying a new AVR without audio delay capability is making a mistake. Many newer TVs regardless of manufacture will process the video signal longer than in the past. The only way for an AVR to match the audio to the video is to delay the audio by some amount.

Good point about buying a receiver with audio delay. I've found that the new Sony ES receivers all have audio delay as well (perhaps there's a reason why), known as "AV Sync", adjustable 0 to 200ms in 10ms increments.

I went yesterday to TWO Ultimate Electronics once again to look specifically for lag. They have a Samsung HL-R6178W set up right next to the Qualia 006. I felt last time I went that the picture was awesome on the Samsung. What I found is that the Samsung lags slightly behind the rest of the 720p sets. But what I also found is that it's in perfect synch with the Qualia 006, which lags slightly too.

In the second Ultimate, they had a Qualia 006 right next to the new Sony 3 chip LCD sets and the Qualia clearly lagged slightly behind these sets. I think this is the result of added processing due to the 1080p resolution. I have no reservations on buying the Samsung now, but I'm sure in the future video processing speeds will improve.

I'm also sure everybody will say I'm wrong that the Qualia lags, but go look for yourself. It is very clear.

By the way, for those like me whose first big screen it is and who have wives or girlfriends that aren't too keen on having a huge TV in their living room (the first words out of my girlfriend's mouth were "I think it's too big, but if you like it..."), tell them the set will grow on them and it will get smaller over time. My girlfriend this morning said "I like the TV a lot more now, and it definitely looks more like a normal size". It's only been 3 days, so that's got to be a good sign. By the way, it's a 56" and I sit at about 8 feet.

It just occured to me. When I said that SD sucked big time, I didn't mention that I was sitting 8 feet from the set. It's basically my fault that SD looks crappy. If I were sitting about two feet further back from the set, SD would probably look about the same as my old 25" tube.

All this repitition about lip sync just pushes any non-lip sync related questions back and they never get answered. :(

Why not make a separate thread for lip sync issues to be discussed, especially for those who are arguing about a tv they haven't even purchased yet...isn't this an owner's thread?

I'm pretty sure "So you think you can dance" on FOX is not HD, so that is probably your biggest problem right there. I have found that many of the SD shows broadcast over digital channels still look like crap. I think this is definitely a source issue. If Conan looks right, I'm sure your TV is fine. Yes, the FOX show is broadcast digitally so it will look better than typical analog SD material, but you are definitely going to see a crappier picture on a show like that than on a true 720p or 1080i show like CSI or Law & Order (or Conan, which is also HD). As the saying goes, crap in, crap out.

Oh, OK. I just figured it was HD since it's a new show and I was watching the FOX HD channel.

I just went to the FOX website and clicked on a link that took me to CheckHD.com.
This site is great. You are right - "so you think you can dance" is not HD.

Why aren't the networks filming everything in HD now?
It can't be that much more expensive.

Thanks.

Help Me!

I have spent so much time trying to get my PC to display at 1080p! Here is my configuration...

Sammy 6168
P4 / WinXP
ATI All-In-Wonder 2006
Latest Catalyst software from ATI website

Here is what happens... I can get into 720p mode just fine. When I try to go to 1080p, it takes some working, but I can do it. I had to dispose of my nice blue-jeans VGA cable and use a cheap cable to get this to work.

It does not recognize the Extended Display Information Data correctly. It will recognize the maximum resolution at 1600x1200. If I choose 1600x1200, it displays fine and fills the screen.

If I uncheck EDID, then I can force the display to 1080p. This does not display properly at all. This is strange. It will display the entire screen, but in a horizontally compressed and only taking up a portion of the screen. At first it looked like 4:3, but I compared it to a SD 4:3 signal, and this takes up less screen space.

I then placed a 1080p wallpaper on my Windows background. It displayed the entire background (I can see the entire picture), but it is still severly horiztonally compressed (it displays is maybe 2/3 of the width of the screen.)

I tried adjusting the Sammy adjustments in PC. I also tried adjusting the settings in the Catalyst software to no avail. In fact, one time I was adjusting the screen size / position in Catalyst and the Sammy went into Source Unsupported mode and I was unable to get out of it until I hooked up my monitor to reset the settings.

Help please?! Thanks!


I had this exact same problem when I initially setup my HTPC except my video card is NVIDIA. I had purchased a "high end" VGA cable and when I set the resolution to 1920x1080 (I didn't have the EDID issue), I got the compressed horizontal display. I tried everything, even another computer with a different video card. Came to the conclusion it was the TV or the VGA cable. Bought a $15 VGA cable from a local shop (10 footer). Works like a charm :) Try another VGA cable. Good luck!

Oh, OK. I just figured it was HD since it's a new show and I was watching the FOX HD channel.

I just went to the FOX website and clicked on a link that took me to CheckHD.com.
This site is great. You are right - "so you think you can dance" is not HD.

Why aren't the networks filming everything in HD now?
It can't be that much more expensive.

Thanks.

I think Checkhd.com gets there listing information from TitanTv.com (http://www.TitanTv.com), so you can check their site out as well. I think a lot of people just assume that if it's on the digital channel for the given network that it's in HD. Remember, the channels aren't HD channels per se, they are just digital channels.

With respect to your question, I'm afraid I can't answer that one fully. I do know that there are more costs than just buying newer cameras associated with producing shows in HD. I am sure someone else here has a good answer to your question.

My daughter likes the TV guide feature. I removed it from the startup but still have it on. Since then it has never updated. At the same time we have been watching the set past 1am each night (its getting addictive) :rolleyes: .

Anyway I noticed that the TV Guide manual says that you cannot use the TV overnight for it to update. I wonder if it just tries around 12-1 am local time and if the set is on it does not bother. Anybody else stay up late?


I read somewhere that the TV Guide data is broadcast 4 times a day but can take 3 hours. TV Guide contracts with one of your local channels to handle this broadcast. I don't get TV Guide data at all because I get horrible reception from the channel that has the TV Guide contract.

It sure seems like there is an awfully lot of mashing of teeth re lip sync problems. I have my 6168 connected to the AVR via an optical cable for sound and there is no lip sync problem. Also, I "think" I am getting DD 5.1. It certainly sounds like it on many programs. Likewise, I have my Denon 2910 connected and once again, no lip sync problems and the sound appears to be DD 5.1 wherein it is there on the DVD. Am I missing something and not fully appreciating the problem?? I know one thing for sure, I am really enjoying this Samsung and I have never seen a better quality HD picture. Keeping my fingers crossed, but so far no problems.

So, it everyone's experience so far, what has yielded the best results from a PC? DVI-> HDMI or DVI-> VGA? What have you tried and what do you like the most? What did you not like?

I have tried DVI->HDMI and VGA->VGA. I didn't even know there was DVI->VGA. I prefer VGA, the computer display is much crisper and the TV / recordings playback seems a bit smoother.

No, the sceen being displayed is horizontally compressed, so everything looks 'squished'.
Why don't you put the monitor in 4:3 mode?

I'm a HD newbie, so I was wondering if someone could take a look at the attached images.

The images are from the Fox HD broadcast of that new dance show.

I kept seeing rainbows in light colors and wavy lines.

The first picture shows a blonde guy's head. It looks like there's probably a pot of gold somewhere in there.

The second picture shows a couple other judges talking. Check out the wavy lines beside their heads.

Are these issues with the source? Or does the TV need tweaking.

I'm guessing source since last night I watched Conan and saw neither of these issues. Just want to make sure.

Thanks.
DLP's are known for rainbow effects due to their colour wheel. Except, Samsung uses a hi-speed colour wheel which should get rid of this problem. Its the source.

nother question for all the 68 owner's: I've been looking at the posts and see that SD is pretty crappy on the 6168 sitting at around 10 feet. I'm back 10 feet (other seeting is at 7 feet), should I get the 56 or 68?

Also, should I spend the money and get an OTA and Bright House free HD service?

westa: big boy, please don't get your panties in such a wad over potential lip sync issues. Potential lip sync issues ARE a concern to many of us on this board!!! And, I don't think that we REALLY know exactly what "ground truth" is for the many conditions. That is why I used the terms "Tentative Conclusions" yesterday.

For those reports of lip sync with the TV's internal speakers, I think that we still need to verify whether it was a TV problem or a source problem.

Until we know what is REALLY going on:

I'm WATCH'N and LEARN'N!!!!!!


I've got a 36" Sony XBR HD that I have had for about four years. I've seen varying lip synch issues on OTA sources for that entire time. Not a lot of them, but it happens. It is all from the source, the stations are still learning how to deal with a myriad of new issues with an all digital station, it isn't easy or simple. I have some experience with digital data systems, I've worked as a system engineer on gournd processing space data systems for about 28 years. It will be some time for all of this to settle out even it the system was not perturbed any more, but there will be major new changes periodically until 2007 or even later. Don't expect stability for some time. If the display shows no lip sync delay with internal processing at all with all the modes of operation, then it isn't a TV problem nor will it ever be a TV problem, it is a system problem.

Lee

nother question for all the 68 owner's: I've been looking at the posts and see that SD is pretty crappy on the 6168 sitting at around 10 feet. I'm back 10 feet (other seeting is at 7 feet), should I get the 56 or 68?

Also, should I spend the money and get an OTA and Bright House free HD service?

Most posts I've seen regarding SD PQ on the 6168 have been positive. With that said, PQ is very subjective. I find the SD on my 6168 from 10 feet to be quite acceptable and if I take it off my HTPC and hook my STB directly to the TV (with composite no less) it is even better.

samungs color wheel doesn't get rid of problem with rainbows.

It sure seems like there is an awfully lot of mashing of teeth re lip sync problems. I have my 6168 connected to the AVR via an optical cable for sound and there is no lip sync problem. Also, I "think" I am getting DD 5.1. It certainly sounds like it on many programs. Likewise, I have my Denon 2910 connected and once again, no lip sync problems and the sound appears to be DD 5.1 wherein it is there on the DVD. Am I missing something and not fully appreciating the problem?? I know one thing for sure, I am really enjoying this Samsung and I have never seen a better quality HD picture. Keeping my fingers crossed, but so far no problems.

How is your 2910 performing with the 6168?

Has anyone paired a Sony S975V with an HL-Rxxx8? If so, what are your thoughts?

I wam running in Wide Mode, if I switch to 4:3 the picture is even more compressed.

Are you running in "WidePC" mode or "4:3" mode?

I have two VGA cables.. A good one from blue-jeans cable and a cheap one. When hooking up the blue-jeans cable and switching the resolution to 1920x1080, I receive the 'Mode Not Supported' message from the TV. When using the cheap cable, I get the 'squished' picture. I have also tried another computer (and video card) with the same results. My assumption is it is the cable(s) or the TV.

I will go out and get another cable today and try again.


I had this exact same problem when I initially setup my HTPC except my video card is NVIDIA. I had purchased a "high end" VGA cable and when I set the resolution to 1920x1080 (I didn't have the EDID issue), I got the compressed horizontal display. I tried everything, even another computer with a different video card. Came to the conclusion it was the TV or the VGA cable. Bought a $15 VGA cable from a local shop (10 footer). Works like a charm :) Try another VGA cable. Good luck!

^has to be a change in the windows settings to enable widescreen

millerwill
I went to Tweeter yesterday to see the 6178 for the first time and I must say the glossy bezel looked very sharp looked classy...and zero reflections off the bezel...Now I wish the 67" had this bezel...oh well 67" is a perfect fit for me...just wanted to let you know...also they are clearing out the complete 2005 Mits dlp models...to make room for the New Mits 1080P units due out in less than a month.

Does the quality of a DVD vary from disc to disc? I've noticed that some are stunning and others are so-so. Is this caused by the disc, my player or possibly the 6168? If it's the disc, what should one look for when purchasing DVDs?

Did you start with the STB in the OFF position?

Step one = Turn the 8300 off
Step two = Guide and Info
Step 3 = follow the prompts

Yes. 8300 off. Using buttons on box. Nadda.

But thanks for the suggestion! :o

^has to be a change in the windows settings to enable widescreen

No widescreen windows setting was required by my setup. Hook up the VGA cable, power up, select 1920x1080, done. (After switching to the cheap VGA cable)

DLP's are known for rainbow effects due to their colour wheel. Except, Samsung uses a hi-speed colour wheel which should get rid of this problem. Its the source.

In this case, the rainbows JohnnyCakes is seeing don't have to do with the kind of rainbows that occur on DLP televisions.

The new samsung sets still have rainbow problems, but I do not believe that the average viewer sees them. I've actually seen rainbows on my new set, but this only occurs when I move my head rapidly back and forth while watching the set or I move my eyes back and forth very rapidly. Fortunately I don't see any rainbows when just sitting down and watching the set.

Most posts I've seen regarding SD PQ on the 6168 have been positive. With that said, PQ is very subjective. I find the SD on my 6168 from 10 feet to be quite acceptable and if I take it off my HTPC and hook my STB directly to the TV (with composite no less) it is even better.
What do you mean, composite, no less? HDMI is ok for SD right? You get PQ with composite on SD?

Does the quality of a DVD vary from disc to disc? I've noticed that some are stunning and others are so-so. Is this caused by the disc, my player or possibly the 6168? If it's the disc, what should one look for when purchasing DVDs?

The quality of DVDs absolutely varies from movie to movie (not disc to disc - disc to disc makes me think that your copy of Xanadu would look better than my copy of Xanadu, when in reality, we both know that they would both suck big time). There are some DVDs that are simply horrible, and others that are stunning. If you are looking just for the purpose of testing out the picture on your set, many say The Fifth Element in Superbit is the way to go. If you don't care a lot about extras, there are a couple dozen movies that are in Superbit. You can see the site for superbit movies here (http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/superbit/). These are DVDs that are dual-layer and encoded at the highest bitrate possible that will allow the movie to fit on one disc. They don't include any extras, but the PQ is great.

Many people have accused the distributors of releasing Superbit versions after the original versions are released just to make an extra buck (since there are some people who want to get the DVD right when it comes out, they also buy the superbit later since it is the highest quality). I'm not such a conspiracy theorist.

Newer movies that typically come in multiple disc sets that put the movie on one disc and the extras on another I would think are typically higher quality than an old classic movie like say "The Naked Gun", which is probably a single layer disc. Also, you can looks for movies that were filmed digitally as well. That nearly guarantees a good quality DVD I would think.

If you are playing a DVD on a 950 or other decent DVD player connected via HDMI to a HLR xxx8 set, I find it very unlikely that this would be the cause of one dvd looking crappy while another might look fantastic.

In this case, the rainbows JohnnyCakes is seeing don't have to do with the kind of rainbows that occur on DLP televisions.

The new samsung sets still have rainbow problems, but I do not believe that the average viewer sees them. I've actually seen rainbows on my new set, but this only occurs when I move my head rapidly back and forth while watching the set or I move my eyes back and forth very rapidly. Fortunately I don't see any rainbows when just sitting down and watching the set.
Ok, Ok your right. :eek:

I've got a 36" Sony XBR HD that I have had for about four years. I've seen varying lip synch issues on OTA sources for that entire time. Not a lot of them, but it happens. It is all from the source, the stations are still learning how to deal with a myriad of new issues with an all digital station, it isn't easy or simple. I have some experience with digital data systems, I've worked as a system engineer on gournd processing space data systems for about 28 years. It will be some time for all of this to settle out even it the system was not perturbed any more, but there will be major new changes periodically until 2007 or even later. Don't expect stability for some time. If the display shows no lip sync delay with internal processing at all with all the modes of operation, then it isn't a TV problem nor will it ever be a TV problem, it is a system problem.

Lee

Lee,
wtrone is not talking about source sync.......

I believe what is frustating folks with SYNC/LAG is:
1) This is NOT a new issue for Samsung. Early reports from Sammy reps said this was fixed in the 1080p models...
2) Samsung CHOSE not to output DD5.1 for anything other than internal tuner
3) Samsung CHOSE not to give the user a way (delay mechanism) to sync up the audio with their VARIABLE video processing. Samsung sympathizers say it would have been difficult for Samsung. Either Sammy has engineers with INET degrees, or all the good ones have gone to FELSTON and pretty much any other AV company. This ain't rocket science....

4******) Sammy raised the bar when they said they were in bed with MS to provide a great gaming monitor (the ultimate test of sync/lag). To hear the 68/78gamers say you must input 480I for ACCEPTABLE lag (not elimination of lag) is not an acceptable solution for most gamers. This makes this set useless for XBOX360 and PS3.

Just one electrical/systems engineer's opinion.... :cool:

Either Sammy has engineers with INET degrees, or all the good ones have gone to FELSTON and pretty much any other AV company. This ain't rocket science....


Classic!

4******) Sammy raised the bar when they said they were in bed with MS to provide a great gaming monitor (the ultimate test of sync/lag). To hear the 68/78gamers say you must input 480I for ACCEPTABLE lag (not elimination of lag) is not an acceptable solution for most gamers. This makes this set useless for XBOX360 and PS3.

How does this make the set useless for 2 products that don't exist yet? Don't write off the PS3 and new xbox yet.

What do you mean, composite, no less? HDMI is ok for SD right? You get PQ with composite on SD?

It is my understanding that of all the different connection types on these tvs, composite is the "lowest quality" connection. My STB only has coax, s-video and composite outputs but I would suspect HDMI is better than composite. Yes the PQ of SD on composite was pretty nice IMO (better than my HTPC output on VGA after all of its processing)

Good point about buying a receiver with audio delay. I've found that the new Sony ES receivers all have audio delay as well (perhaps there's a reason why), known as "AV Sync", adjustable 0 to 200ms in 10ms increments.

I would suggest buying a receiver that has audio delay that can be set individually for each audio input. The Denon and HK receivers have that feature. Yamahas, on the other hand, only have a global audio delay setting. The average video delay on a 480i signal may differ than that on a 480p, 720p or 1080i.

Please forgive my ignorance, but is there any problem with keeping these big, beautiful sets on for extended periods... as in 12 to 15 hours without turning them off? The reason I ask, is that my 6168 died yesterday (I'm hoping due to a faulty bulb - to be replaced today). On the day prior (my first full day with the set), I think we had it turned on for about 15 hours non-stop.

Thanks! Waiting on bulb in KC.

If you are playing a DVD on a 950 or other decent DVD player connected via HDMI to a HLR xxx8 set, I find it very unlikely that this would be the cause of one dvd looking crappy while another might look fantastic.


Just to make sure I'm understanding your last statement... if I were to get a 950 DVD, I should expect "stunning" PQ on all my DVDs? (Currently using my HTPC Plextor 716SA)

Thanks for all the valuable info!

How does this make the set useless for 2 products that don't exist yet? Don't write off the PS3 and new xbox yet.

I do not believe it is a big jump to say that PS3/XBOX360 will be at their best outputting 720/1080 (that is the point, right). Current gamer reports and Sammy's own GAME mode indicate this TV is at its best when games are input at 480i.

Again, I might get one of these sets (not much of a gamer). Matter of fact, if it was not for this lag, I might have one on order right now. These sync/lag issues have made me 'question' some of Sammy's decisions/trades with this expensive television.

It is my understanding that of all the different connection types on these tvs, composite is the "lowest quality" connection. My STB only has coax, s-video and composite outputs but I would suspect HDMI is better than composite. Yes the PQ of SD on composite was pretty nice IMO (better than my HTPC output on VGA after all of its processing)

Not true at all. While composite might have the lowest spec in terms of video data sent, these TV's are capable of lots of video processing, but they will only do it on composite (and coax). S-Video and above get far less video processing.

So you'll likely see a much better SD picture using composite than S-Video (for HDMI, the source box is doing a lot of processing before sending it, so it will depend on the source box).

It is my understanding that of all the different connection types on these tvs, composite is the "lowest quality" connection. My STB only has coax, s-video and composite outputs but I would suspect HDMI is better than composite. Yes the PQ of SD on composite was pretty nice IMO (better than my HTPC output on VGA after all of its processing)


I believe you have component confused as composite...Component consists of 3 wires and is ARGUABLY of lesser quality than HDMI.


Bernie

I do not believe it is a big jump to say that PS3/XBOX360 will be at their best outputting 720/1080 (that is the point, right).

I believe its a huge jump to say that either of those devices will do anything but play games. Resolution, frame rates, game types, connection types, controllers, etc are completely pointless to worry about at this point because all of that stuff can and will change before they are released. Consoles do not exist until they are being shipped out for sale. Until that time anything and everything can change on them. Sony already has removed the 2nd network jack as well as its ability to act as a router. They have also stated that majority of games will be 720p and not 1080 anything. Who knows, by the time they actually come out they may only be in 480p.

To hear the 68/78gamers say you must input 480I for ACCEPTABLE lag (not elimination of lag) is not an acceptable solution for most gamers. This makes this set useless for XBOX360 and PS3.

To be fair, it's not clear that higher-resolution (e.g. 720p) games exhibit significant lag. From my reading on the forum, it seems like people playing 720p XBox games (e.g. Halo 2) have generally reported no significant lag, compared to 480i/480p PS2 games, possibly because the TV has to do less work to upconvert. If this is the case, then the fact that GAME mode only works with 480i isn't a problem for anything except 480p. Thus, it's possible that X360/PS3 outputting at higher resolutions won't have lag issues.

EDIT: Our sample size of 720p reports is relatively small, if I remember correctly, so take this with a grain of salt.

I believe you have component confused as composite...Component consists of 3 wires and is ARGUABLY of lesser quality than HDMI.


Bernie

I was using composite (1 wire with rca jacks for the video). Isn't composite of lesser quality than component?

Just to make sure I'm understanding your last statement... if I were to get a 950 DVD, I should expect "stunning" PQ on all my DVDs? (Currently using my HTPC Plextor 716SA)

Thanks for all the valuable info!

My quick answer to this would be no. The only reason I say that is because some DVDs aren't very good, so you wouldn't see stunning picture on ALL your DVDs. Also, let us all remember that DVDs are SD, not HD, so they are almost never going to look as good as HD (as long as the HD isn't too compressed).

That being said, when I was watching Gladiator on my set through HDMI on my HD950, it was totally stunning. Even the fast-motion fighting scenes had no artifacts (I am not entirely sure of what "macroblocking" means, but I take it to mean the square/jagged looking blobs that you see when there is fast motion on a DVD - There was none of this).

The colors and contrast were amazing. I'm not sure if anyone else thinks Gladiator is a good movie to test with a set like this, but I love the movie, and it looked awesome on my set.

I am not at all disappointed with the HD950 on my set. To truly answer your question, I would say that if you have a 950 set up via HDMI to one of these new samsung sets, if the PQ isn't great, then it might be the particular DVD you are watching.

I was using composite (1 wire with rca jacks for the video). Isn't composite of lesser quality than component?

Goob, you are correct. I do not believe you were confusing anything. I take your earlier comments to mean that for video, you have three options on your STB. Coax, S-video, and one yellow composite video cable. I always thought that composite cables provided a worse signal than s-video myself (regardless of how much processing is done and when/where, but I learn new things every day here.

It is my understanding that of all the different connection types on these tvs, composite is the "lowest quality" connection. My STB only has coax, s-video and composite outputs but I would suspect HDMI is better than composite. Yes the PQ of SD on composite was pretty nice IMO (better than my HTPC output on VGA after all of its processing)
You should use S-video, its way better. And if you have and hlr6168w how are you getting hd?

Not true at all. While composite might have the lowest spec in terms of video data sent, these TV's are capable of lots of video processing, but they will only do it on composite (and coax). S-Video and above get far less video processing.

So you'll likely see a much better SD picture using composite than S-Video (for HDMI, the source box is doing a lot of processing before sending it, so it will depend on the source box).
Yeah, my local custom HT installer (absolute sound) says that I should use composite of analog. But, how do I make my STB output composite for analog and HDMI for digital, w/o connnecting, disconnecting, etc? is it even possible?

My understanding is that you always use the best connection available. so it would be rca, followed by svideo, followed by component, followed by dvi/hdmi

Then you have the question of which device has the best scaler. Your tv versus your dvd player/stb?

If your tv has the better scaler, then you would put your dvd or stb to output 480i and have the tv scale the signal. The catch here is that not all dvd players output 480i over hdmi. Does the 950 do this?

If your dvd/stb has a better scaler, then you set it to output the highest resolution and that way the scaler in the TV does minimal processing.

Help Me!

I have spent so much time trying to get my PC to display at 1080p! Here is my configuration...

Sammy 6168
P4 / WinXP
ATI All-In-Wonder 2006
Latest Catalyst software from ATI website

Here is what happens... I can get into 720p mode just fine. When I try to go to 1080p, it takes some working, but I can do it. I had to dispose of my nice blue-jeans VGA cable and use a cheap cable to get this to work.

It does not recognize the Extended Display Information Data correctly. It will recognize the maximum resolution at 1600x1200. If I choose 1600x1200, it displays fine and fills the screen.

If I uncheck EDID, then I can force the display to 1080p. This does not display properly at all. This is strange. It will display the entire screen, but in a horizontally compressed and only taking up a portion of the screen. At first it looked like 4:3, but I compared it to a SD 4:3 signal, and this takes up less screen space.

I then placed a 1080p wallpaper on my Windows background. It displayed the entire background (I can see the entire picture), but it is still severly horiztonally compressed (it displays is maybe 2/3 of the width of the screen.)

I tried adjusting the Sammy adjustments in PC. I also tried adjusting the settings in the Catalyst software to no avail. In fact, one time I was adjusting the screen size / position in Catalyst and the Sammy went into Source Unsupported mode and I was unable to get out of it until I hooked up my monitor to reset the settings.

Help please?! Thanks!


I tried to do it and got the same thing. I adjusted the settings on the TV to the extent possible. When I try to adjust the setting in the catalyst center, if I exceed a certain position, then the TV reports 'Unsupported Mode'. For now, I have given up on that as it is a pain to hook up the monitor everytime to reset it. Did you try a different frequency, like 30Hz instead of 60Hz. Not 1080p, but it could be a compromise.

My understanding is that you always use the best connection available. so it would be rca, followed by svideo, followed by component, followed by dvi/hdmi

Then you have the question of which device has the best scaler. Your tv versus your dvd player/stb?

If your tv has the better scaler, then you would put your dvd or stb to output 480i and have the tv scale the signal. The catch here is that not all dvd players output 480i over hdmi. Does the 950 do this?

If your dvd/stb has a better scaler, then you set it to output the highest resolution and that way the scaler in the TV does minimal processing.
For analog, your STB has to convert the signal to digital if your using a digital connection. So if you used an analoug connection, the STB wouldn't have to process the analoug signal to digital, so your TV would recieve an analoug signal instead of a digital signal already processed from digital. Therefor the TV could change the analoug signal its self. (You should only use this method for SD) This has nothing to do with scaling (ie. 480i to 1080P) if you don't want the STB to scale simply set it on bypass.

Lee,
wtrone is not talking about source sync.......

I believe what is frustating folks with SYNC/LAG is:
1) This is NOT a new issue for Samsung. Early reports from Sammy reps said this was fixed in the 1080p models...
2) Samsung CHOSE not to output DD5.1 for anything other than internal tuner
3) Samsung CHOSE not to give the user a way (delay mechanism) to sync up the audio with their VARIABLE video processing. Samsung sympathizers say it would have been difficult for Samsung. Either Sammy has engineers with INET degrees, or all the good ones have gone to FELSTON and pretty much any other AV company. This ain't rocket science....

4******) Sammy raised the bar when they said they were in bed with MS to provide a great gaming monitor (the ultimate test of sync/lag). To hear the 68/78gamers say you must input 480I for ACCEPTABLE lag (not elimination of lag) is not an acceptable solution for most gamers. This makes this set useless for XBOX360 and PS3.

Just one electrical/systems engineer's opinion.... :cool:


westa: big boy, please don't get your panties in such a wad over potential lip sync issues. Potential lip sync issues ARE a concern to many of us on this board!!! And, I don't think that we REALLY know exactly what "ground truth" is for the many conditions. That is why I used the terms "Tentative Conclusions" yesterday.

For those reports of lip sync with the TV's internal speakers, I think that we still need to verify whether it was a TV problem or a source problem.

Until we know what is REALLY going on:

I'm WATCH'N and LEARN'N!!!!!!

I was addressing the quote above about internal speakers, I think this has been resolved.

I agree with you on 2) and 3). I don't address 4) because I not a gamer. With 1) I believe that Samsung was talking about the INTERNAL delay problem of earlier DLP sets, although there may have been some unsaid assumptions on both sides. If you assume that, then they were correct. I repeat (except for gaming) all of the audio/video sync problems are systemic and not the result of any intrinsic unit problems.

Lee

You should use S-video, its way better. And if you have and hlr6168w how are you getting hd?

I'm using my s-video to connect my STB to my HTPC's PVR card. The composite connetion to the TV was a temporary test. The only HD I currently get is from the 1 OTA local channel I can receive. After seeing the improvement in SD quality by taking the HTPC out of the equation, I've been tempted to get a D* HD Tivo but with the new MPEG4 stuff on the way, I'm hesitant to spend the $ only to have to replace it. Not to mention the cost that went into the HTPC.

I'm using my s-video to connect my STB to my HTPC's PVR card. The composite connetion to the TV was a temporary test. The only HD I currently get is from the 1 OTA local channel I can receive. After seeing the improvement in SD quality by taking the HTPC out of the equation, I've been tempted to get a D* HD Tivo but with the new MPEG4 stuff on the way, I'm hesitant to spend the $ only to have to replace it. Not to mention the cost that went into the HTPC.
Good idea, how much does it cost to get HD through cable where you live? It's free in Orlando! :cool: :cool: :cool:

Good idea, how much does it cost to get HD through cable where you live? It's free in Orlando! :cool: :cool: :cool:

I've never considered it since I know it isn't free here and I've been with D* since day 1 of NFL Sunday Ticket :)

My quick answer to this would be no. The only reason I say that is because some DVDs aren't very good, so you wouldn't see stunning picture on ALL your DVDs. Also, let us all remember that DVDs are SD, not HD, so they are almost never going to look as good as HD (as long as the HD isn't too compressed).

That being said, when I was watching Gladiator on my set through HDMI on my HD950, it was totally stunning. Even the fast-motion fighting scenes had no artifacts (I am not entirely sure of what "macroblocking" means, but I take it to mean the square/jagged looking blobs that you see when there is fast motion on a DVD - There was none of this).

The colors and contrast were amazing. I'm not sure if anyone else thinks Gladiator is a good movie to test with a set like this, but I love the movie, and it looked awesome on my set.

I am not at all disappointed with the HD950 on my set. To truly answer your question, I would say that if you have a 950 set up via HDMI to one of these new samsung sets, if the PQ isn't great, then it might be the particular DVD you are watching.

What are some other scenes in movies that you own that might show jaggies in fast motion scenes?

Also, being a normal viewer of these sets and not saying the PQ looks horrible at 2 feet away, I think that most DVDs like almost as good as HD. There is barely a difference and its nothing to complain about. IMO

Wtr1, I believe your original conclusion is correct. I have the 6168 and the Felston unit. I’ve found that I can leave the audio delay at about 85 ms. regardless of input.
The large screen amplifies any lip sync issues that can be present regardless of source. I’ve noticed considerable variation coming from different broadcasts (no fault of the TV). I have TWC with an SFA 8300 DVR.
If I feel like being picky I may change the audio delay from 85 ms. to match the broadcast but on average the .85 ms. seems good.
IMHO anyone buying a new AVR without audio delay capability is making a mistake. Many newer TVs regardless of manufacture will process the video signal longer than in the past. The only way for an AVR to match the audio to the video is to delay the audio by some amount.

Vandu and all who have either a Felston or AVR with delay, is there enough of a benefit to a Felston to justify the ability to easily adjust sync or are most folks leaving their settings alone and therefore an AVR with Delay would be almost as good (realizing ease of changes)? I would rather sink my cash into a new AVR and send my current HK to the backup role to run the rest of the house A/V.

I've never considered it since I know it isn't free here and I've been with D* since day 1 of NFL Sunday Ticket :)
Ahhh....Why don't you upgrade to a more powerful OTA to recieve HD?

What are some other scenes in movies that you own that might show jaggies in fast motion scenes?

Also, being a normal viewer of these sets and not saying the PQ looks horrible at 2 feet away, I think that most DVDs like almost as good as HD. There is barely a difference and its nothing to complain about. IMO

I haven't really looked at a lot of my DVDs on the set yet, but I will try SW:AOTC when I get a chance as well as Spider Man 2. Those ought to have enough fast motion as well I think. I have the other SW movies as well, but those SW Trilogy DVDs really don't look as good as newer movies in my opinion.

random question: whats QAM stand for? I see it all the time in here

in my opinion, funds permitting, it is better to go with a new AVR that has delay features per input. it will be one less device cluttering up your stand or shelves, and less wires to buy.

Vandu and all who have either a Felston or AVR with delay, is there enough of a benefit to a Felston to justify the ability to easily adjust sync or are most folks leaving their settings alone and therefore an AVR with Delay would be almost as good (realizing ease of changes)? I would rather sink my cash into a new AVR and send my current HK to the backup role to run the rest of the house A/V.

OK, I got it working... It took THREE DIFFERENT VGA cables.. I went to best Buy and purchased an $18 cable and the display finally accepted 1080p! It doesn't look all that sharp yet, for some reason I thought the 720p looked a little sharper. Three VGA cables later, I have 1080p.. I wonder what blue-jeans cable return policy is?

My next step is to figure out how to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping (hopefully that helps the picture a bit).

Thanks all for your help.


I tried to do it and got the same thing. I adjusted the settings on the TV to the extent possible. When I try to adjust the setting in the catalyst center, if I exceed a certain position, then the TV reports 'Unsupported Mode'. For now, I have given up on that as it is a pain to hook up the monitor everytime to reset it. Did you try a different frequency, like 30Hz instead of 60Hz. Not 1080p, but it could be a compromise.

OK, I got it working... It took THREE DIFFERENT VGA cables.. I went to best Buy and purchased an $18 cable and the display finally accepted 1080p! It doesn't look all that sharp yet, for some reason I thought the 720p looked a little sharper. Three VGA cables later, I have 1080p.. I wonder what blue-jeans cable return policy is?

My next step is to figure out how to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping (hopefully that helps the picture a bit).

Thanks all for your help.


Glad you got it working! It appears that 1:1 is achieved by increasing the display size to the maximum in the TV menu. (under Wide PC display) You'll have some overscan but it looks nice and crisp to me.

Okay, I decided to compile the pictures people have posted of these sets up until now. I do have to note I made a quick pass of the entire thread and posted notes where I could. I'm not guarantying accuracy on this, so if you are interested in a specific posting or image, search back through this thread to find the original post and discussions about that picture! Also, I'll be out of town this weekend, so sorry if I'm not around to reply to any messages about this until Monday. I can also post this in post #6 of this thread if you guys want later next week - for easy reference in the future. Not sure if that is necessary though.



Box Pictures

John_Jones_CA
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40000



Entire Setup / With Stand / HT Setup

schaffer970
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40007

John_Jones_CA
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40029

skeeteroplagus:
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/sammy.jpg

PushStar:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15816/size/big

FLApilot:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40306

RMSko: (built into wall)
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40375

calbert:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40441

GoobTheNoob:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gondalguru/detail?.dir=8a87&.dnm=500a.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gondalguru/detail?.dir=8a87&.dnm=6c9c.jpg&.src=ph

RodWorks:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40499
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40500



Display Details Pictures

John_Jones_CA
DNIe Demo Off: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40039
DNIe Demo On: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40040

schaffer970 - TV 1920x1080 60Hz
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40127
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40137

spear - 1.) VGA with no overscan, 2) VGA at maximum picture size, 3) HDMI.
vga_fs: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40249
vga_os: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40250
hdmi: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40251

Ppowr: set hooked up to PC playing back 3dmark 2005 (via VGA)
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/PICT0258.JPG

skeeteroplagus: maximizing the screen size on the PC input for 1:1 pixel mapping
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/text.jpg

RMSko:
W-O Dot Dropped: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40358
With Dot Cropped: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40359



Display Errors

pup73 - black wavy lines
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40089
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40090

courtjstr: THX Set-up on the Toy Story DVD using SVideo Input. 2 inches lost at bottom and vertical lines are jagged
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40433

Clorox: static/dots on black portions of the picture (5668W set)
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40548
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40551

FLApilot: specs/splotching
Component (problem picture):
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40571
HDMI (okay I think):
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40572

skeeteroplagus: (component - both xbox and cable box when outputting 720P or 1080I on 5668W)
"The set will not show the artifacts for probably the first 10 - 15 minutes, but overtime the problem gradually gets worse"
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/artifact1.jpg
close up: http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/artifact2.jpg

johnnycakes: rainbows in light colors and wavy lines on Fox
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40664
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40665

That being said, when I was watching Gladiator on my set through HDMI on my HD950, it was totally stunning. Even the fast-motion fighting scenes had no artifacts (I am not entirely sure of what "macroblocking" means, but I take it to mean the square/jagged looking blobs that you see when there is fast motion on a DVD - There was none of this).

I don't think what you're describing--the square blockishness when a signal is breaking up--is macroblocking. It is (and someone correct if I'm wrong) the splotchy, usually purple-ish noise one sees most often on very light backgrounds (often the sky).

I don't think what you're describing--the square blockishness when a signal is breaking up--is macroblocking. It is (and someone correct if I'm wrong) the splotchy, usually purple-ish noise one sees most often on very light backgrounds (often the sky).

Perhaps what I was referring to are just artifacts. Didn't see any artifacts then during fast motion.

I think I know the purple-ish stuff to which you are referring, although I don't know if I saw any of that at all since I really wasn't looking for it.

I was mostly looking to see how fast motion was handled, and I was definitely impressed with that. Nothing jagged at all from what I saw.

Does anyone know what the Course and Fine settings under the PC (VGA) Settings do?

I nominate Rodworks and FAPilot for the best looking setup :)

I went out and bought a 6600 GT video card today (along with an $18 VGA cable). I have a DVI to HDMI cable that came with my 950 DVD player. What's the consensus on the best way to hook the TV to the PC to play GTA San Andreas? Sounds like VGA may be good, but seems like DVI to HDMI is more logical. Also the card came with an S-Video (round, 9-pin) to Component adapter that they call "HDTV out". I'm confused.

anyway you can list set sizes next to the links? that way if we see a stand we like, we will now if it fits the model we ordered.

Quadrature Amplitude Modulation. It is used by cable companies.
Google is your friend, it took me 5 seconds to get this...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=QAM&btnG=Google+Search

http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci541804,00.html

Just asking a question here. 5 seconds....hmmm...Yahoo took 4.

leemill: just to be clear, why do you feel that the lip sync reports with the TV's internal speakers has been resolved?

Maybe I missed the posts, but I didn't see anyone say that they were using 2 TVs, new Samsung and old CRT, to monitor source lip sync. If so, I'd like to see what they said.

I don't think that we have this aspect resolved, but maybe a few new owners could run several test, this weekend, and tell us what the results are.

Thanks In Advance to all that try these experiments.

anyway you can list set sizes next to the links? that way if we see a stand we like, we will now if it fits the model we ordered.That’s not a bad idea. That was why I compiled this listing. I'm looking for a stand right now.

I don't have the time today to make these updates because I am leaving town for the weekend. However, I am completely willing to accept any PMs from the owners or people who know which TV is owned by which person. (I don't know this and don't think it's in the exact post for most of those pictures.) I'll update this list early next week if possible and if I get enough information about which specific TV each person has.

I went out and bought a 6600 GT video card today (along with an $18 VGA cable). I have a DVI to HDMI cable that came with my 950 DVD player. What's the consensus on the best way to hook the TV to the PC to play GTA San Andreas? Sounds like VGA may be good, but seems like DVI to HDMI is more logical. Also the card came with an S-Video (round, 9-pin) to Component adapter that they call "HDTV out". I'm confused.

S-video only has 4 pins.

Vandu and all who have either a Felston or AVR with delay, is there enough of a benefit to a Felston to justify the ability to easily adjust sync or are most folks leaving their settings alone and therefore an AVR with Delay would be almost as good (realizing ease of changes)? I would rather sink my cash into a new AVR and send my current HK to the backup role to run the rest of the house A/V.

My understanding is that the H/K receivers that have an audio delay feature have one button access to the audio delay on the remote. I own a Denon and the audio delay is buried around three deep in the menu. More important, in my view, is to have an AVR, like the Denon or H/K that allow independent setting of the audio delay on various audio inputs. For example I get significant lip sync issues from the SD Tivo that inputs via analog. I set the delay appropriate for that input and have not had to change it. I do not get lip sync issues on my DVD or HD inputs so I have no audio delay on those digital audio inputs.

If you have lip sync issues, as I do, on a SD Tivo one needs to apply audio delay to the analog audio. The Felston device only handles digital inputs and would need a analog to digital converter to work on an analog source. It is described on their web site.

System setup, 3 down, enter twice for my Denon 3805. Then right to increase and left to decrease the audio delay for the current input. It only takes 2 to 3 seconds for me to get to the audio delay. I don't even need to look at the receiver display to get there. I have my delay set to 120ms for the audio with my HDMI inputs. That seems to work fine for me.

Haven't heard much mention of DNIe from owners of the 68s or 78s. Whats the general feeling?

About what? You can't turn it off so talking about it is pretty much pointless. The demo mode's off side looks just like it does when you aren't in demo mode.

leemell: just to be clear, why do you feel that the lip sync reports with the TV's internal speakers has been resolved?

Maybe I missed the posts, but I didn't see anyone say that they were using 2 TVs, new Samsung and old CRT, to monitor source lip sync. If so, I'd like to see what they said.

I don't think that we have this aspect resolved, but maybe a few new owners could run several test, this weekend, and tell us what the results are.

Thanks In Advance to all that try these experiments.


You don't need two TVs to monitor internal lip sync, all you need to do is check to video image to the audio of the tv's speakers. Check each feed, DVD, STB, etc. with the audio going straight to the TV, not to any external box. No one on this forum has reported lip sync delay in this configuation. The sync we are talking about here is what the TV processes itself, that was the issue with the older (HLP I believe) sets, and what Samsung was talking about. The rest of the sync issues (gaming excepted) involve external components.

Lee

I nominate Rodworks and FAPilot for the best looking setup :)
Agreed :D

leemell: I believe that you are wrong. I do recall a post or two wherein the owner said that there was lip sync using the Samsung internal speakers. There have also been reports of source lip sync problems with several of the cable and satellite channels. Were the reports, that I recall, indicative of a TV problem? Or, a source problem?

If I am correct, then, one of the easiest ways to tell if it is the Samsung or the source is to have an old CRT TV hooked up, at the same time.

I am not saying that there IS or ISN'T lip sync with the internal speakers. I just want to know what the actual answer is.

About what? You can't turn it off so talking about it is pretty much pointless. The demo mode's off side looks just like it does when you aren't in demo mode.

hehe! I was going to say that the general consensus is that DNIe sucks big time.

The better question is this: What is the general feeling of the DNIe button on the remote?

I can't think of a worse button to put on a remote than that one. The only one that comes close is the "Window" button on a DirecTiVo remote, but that is actually a better button because it literally does nothing. The DNIe actually does something, but it's worse because it basically reminds you that you can't control DNIe.

AkaStp: LOL!!

Maybe he was?

Then,

Again,

Maybe he REALLY wasn't!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, what am I saying?

He was wrong!!!!!!

I know it and you should know it!

LOL!!!

Have a GREAT weekend.

About what? You can't turn it off so talking about it is pretty much pointless. The demo mode's off side looks just like it does when you aren't in demo mode.
Your saying DNie hass no effect? Or did you just get your wording wrong?

I can't think of a worse button to put on a remote than that one. The only one that comes close is the "Window" button on a DirecTiVo remote, but that is actually a better button because it literally does nothing. The DNIe actually does something, but it's worse because it basically reminds you that you can't control DNIe.

I don't think the button is bad at all because its hidden under the slide away. Mines always closed anyways so I never see it.

Your saying DNie hass no effect? Or did you just get your wording wrong?

I'm saying that when you hit the demo button, the off side of the split screen doesn't change, but the on side seems to be exagerated in its effect. So I don't really think the off side shows it as off, just that the exageration of the effect makes it look off. One would think if you hit the demo button the on side would stay the same as what you were watching before but the off side would look noticably different, but its the complete opposite.

Lol! I suppose that what I really meant was how to 68/78 owners feel about not being able to turn DNIe off and thus being stuck with whatever effects DNIe applies to the picture. Does anyone feel that DNIe results in an over-processed or artificial looking signal or is it overall acceptable?

I think it looks just fine. But then again you can't turn it off anyways so we really how no clue as to how it looks without it.

Lol! I suppose that what I really meant was how to 68/78 owners feel about not being able to turn DNIe off and thus being stuck with whatever effects DNIe applies to the picture. Does anyone feel that DNIe results in an over-processed or artificial looking signal or is it overall acceptable?

I personally don't notice anything that DNIe does that I can't seem to undo with the basic settings on the set (Referring to the Demo On/Off and being able to make it look both ways). Doesn't seem to do much for all the marketing hype.

I'm saying that when you hit the demo button, the off side of the split screen doesn't change, but the on side seems to be exagerated in its effect. So I don't really think the off side shows it as off, just that the exageration of the effect makes it look off. One would think if you hit the demo button the on side would stay the same as what you were watching before but the off side would look noticably different, but its the complete opposite.
Oh ok, I get it. The demos probably just a feature designed for Best Buy to show customers. lol.

In the past two days I've been able to see the HLR-6178 at two out of the three Sound Advice stores here in Orlando (division of Tweeters). They had just put them out on the floor. They are beautiful sets. Details and colors were awesome with component connections. I was only able to compare one of the sets to a 720P (62 inch) Mitsubishi Diamond series at one of the stores. I preferred the Samsung over the Mits ( this is a Samsung thread right :D ) in most aspects except skin tones which looked overly "smoothed" on the Samsung. Other detail images looked better on the Samsung. The second HLR-6178 at the second store did not seem as "smoothed" as the first set. All TV sets were set up the same with identical HD feeds.

Is there an "art" for these sets to show skin tones?
Do some manufacturer's algorithms work better than others?
Is DNIE to blame?
Will ISF calibration improve this issue?
Last but not least has anyone else who owns this set seen this issue on their TV?

Thanks

Went into the menu and did try turning off DNR. Also tried movie mode which seemed to change the hue of the set. Don't know why. Tried the different white points and that was not a help. Was wondering if changes in gamma would help? Couldn't go into the service menu with the salesman watching! :cool:

In the past two days I've been able to see the HLR-6178 at two out of the three Sound Advice stores here in Orlando (division of Tweeters). They had just put them out on the floor. They are beautiful sets. Details and colors were awesome with component connections. I was only able to compare one of the sets to a 720P (62 inch) Mitsubishi Diamond series at one of the stores. I preferred the Samsung over the Mits ( this is a Samsung thread right :D ) in most aspects except skin tones which looked overly "smoothed" on the Samsung. Other detail images looked better on the Samsung. The second HLR-6168 at the second store did not seem as "smoothed" as the first set. All TV sets were set up the same with identical HD feeds.

Is there an "art" for these sets to show skin tones?
Do some manufacturer's algorithms work better than others?
Is DNIE to blame?
Will ISF calibration improve this issue?
Last but not least has anyone else who owns this set seen this issue on their TV?

Thanks
Hey JD, I'm in orlando too, what are the places called that have the sammy's? Where are they?

hdrevolution check your PM

I mainly watch dish network non HD channels. I have hooked stb 522 via s-video to my avr pioneer 1015 and form there via component to 6168.

My question is " will PQ improve significantly for non HD channels if I get new HD dish receiver and connect it to 6168 using HDMI"

Just wanted to follow-up regarding my 6168 that died (wouldn't startup) on the 2nd day after I received it... Samsung tech came by this morning. Bulb was fine - it was the ballast. Fortunately, he had a couple of ballasts in his truck and confirmed with Samsung that the HLP and HLR ballasts were identical. Replaced it and presto... got my Sammy back!

Hope that's the end of my problems... love this thing!

Fingers crossed in KC :)

And by the way... I was one of the folks that reported seeing lip-sync problems with the internal speakers. It was slight and sporatic, not bad enough to bother me - if I see it again on the SD channels, I'll check to see if it is occuring also on my CRT.

Rebies,

You have me listed with someone elses setup. Here's a pic of mine (a work in progress)...

gondalguru

I got a kick out of reading your message. I recently moved from Colorado to Atlanta. In Atlanta, I connected to Comcast because I was concerned with Directv and their Mpeg4 potential problems. After a couple of months, I decided to connect to the dish network. Not wanting to loose coverage, I wanted to leave the Comcast connection on until after dish was connected. Well-after it was connected, I couldn't help but compare the two networks. I set up a HD television using the two sources on adjacent connections so I could togle between the two. To my surprise, the Comcast connection was substantially more sharp than the dish connection on SD television. On HD, there was no difference. I am now trying to get out of my dish obligation and stay with Comcast-it's just much better. Dish is like looking at a soft picture. Comcast is sharp and the lines do not have a soft fuzz around them. Quite frankly, I was amazed! So much for Dish's references to the "cable pig". Comcast rates may be slightly higher, but it's worth it for the picture quality difference on SD, and for the reasonably near future, that's what most of us have to watch.

Rebies,

You have me listed with someone elses setup. Here's a pic of mine (a work in progress)...

Very nice setup! :)

Very nice setup! :)Haven't seen you in awhile...must be enjoying your new toy. :)

I got my 6168 from the Power Buy on Wednesday. I love this set.:D

Some short observations...
XBOX via componet and optical out to my Kenwood 6070VR. NO noticable lag. Games played..Halo 2 for about a hour and a half, Soul Calibure 2, Dead or Alive Ultimate, Riddick.

Comcast 6012 via HDMI and componet. No lipsyc issues on Discovery HD or the HD locals. SD quality varies from station to station.

My JVC 480p DVD player via componet. No lypsync. Pictures is pretty bad but the player a cheap one and I only hooked it up to see how it looks.

HTPC via VGA. This is where the set really shines for me. DVD's play great through Zoomplayer. Some 720p clips I"ve played (Serenity: The Movie and Kamichu (Japenese Anime) look stunning. Haf-life 2 and Doom: Resurrection look great on the big screen, especially Half-Life that has native 16x9 support. I think I'm going to put my CRT monitor in the closet!

Rainbows...Depends on the source for me. Shows in black or white really hit me wiith rainbows. Other sources I do not notice them.

The WOW factor has not worn off yet. The 6168 replaces my Samsung 27 HDTV CRT set. This thing is so cool :D

wmwrose: I'm so glad that they were able to fix it!!!!!!! I can imagine how frustrated you were.

I sure appreciate your help in putting to rest the last of my "issues." I'm close to pulling the trigger on my 1st Samsung purchase, but I really want to understand what "ground truth" is here, and I want to see a real TV in person. Tweeters, here in town, says that they may have one the end of next week.

Here's

Watch'n and Learn'n.

[QUOTE=AUPigskin--]Lee,
wtrone is not talking about source sync.......

3) Samsung CHOSE not to give the user a way (delay mechanism) to sync up the audio with their VARIABLE video processing. Samsung sympathizers say it would have been difficult for Samsung. Either Sammy has engineers with INET degrees, or all the good ones have gone to FELSTON and pretty much any other AV company. This ain't rocket science....

It takes time to process video. Audio from the HT system goes thru in near real time. Therefore out of sync! What could Samsung, or any outhe manufacture do to slow down an independent HT system?

jmkohm: let me speak for myself and I think that you may be missing the point.

Only the TV knows how much processing time it takes to convert from one video format to its video output format to the TV screen. Thus, the most logical place to do the audio delay is in the TV. It is not all that difficult to "lock" the audio, frame to frame, to the video.

Samsung may already be doing that with the internal speakers and the optical output. I strongly suspect that is the actual case.

However, one of the design issues is that the HDMI audio which is transmitted to the TVs optical output appears to only be 2 channel. I am not terribly surprised because I have read, on other boards, that Denon, Onkyo, and Yahama are having problems with their HDMI ports on their HT receivers. Only time will tell if there is a solution that can be retrofit to these current Samsung TVs.

Hope that this helps!

There may be a copyright problem with output a audio from the TV then the source is coming in from the HDMI

jmkohm: let me speak for myself and I think that you may be missing the point.

Only the TV knows how much processing time it takes to convert from one video format to its video output format to the TV screen. Thus, the most logical place to do the audio delay is in the TV. It is not all that difficult to "lock" the audio, frame to frame, to the video.

Samsung may already be doing that with the internal speakers and the optical output. I strongly suspect that is the actual case.

However, one of the design issues is that the HDMI audio which is transmitted to the TVs optical output appears to only be 2 channel. I am not terribly surprised because I have read, on other boards, that Denon, Onkyo, and Yahama are having problems with their HDMI ports on their HT receivers. Only time will tell if there is a solution that can be retrofit to these current Samsung TVs.

Hope that this helps!


I agree, the only thing Samsung could do is pass 5.1 etc. out to the HT system. Is there a DLP manufacture doing this?

any word as to when the 50" 1080p sets will arrive?

Thanks Jerry

I was considering to switch to time warner cable (only choice in McAllen, TX). On dish network my wife watches lots of south asian channels which are not avilable on cable. So I have to stick with dish.
Other question i have is why there are so few HD dish receivers out compared to directv receivers??

any word as to when the 50" 1080p sets will arrive?

They were the first to arrive ... they have been available for about a month. The 6768 is in the distribution pipeline ... so the only set not available is the 7178.

Hey JD, I'm in orlando too, what are the places called that have the sammy's? Where are they?


And I am just 40 east of you in brevard...

Have you gotten your 6168? I got mine last week along with someone else who was being shipped a 5668...JH is person I saw on shipping label.

Is there a good scene of something to test the shadow detail? I don't seem to have any. anyone with black on blends in completely with a dark background. I have it in movie mode and am using brigtness and contrast settings from the THX optimizer. A little help would be appreciated.
Thanks

Got my 5668 yesterday. Very noticeable audio delay using Zenith DVB318 DVD with audio fed to receiver.
Not crazy about having to spend $229 on a felston audio delay unit. Anyone know of more economical alternatives?

Got my 5668 yesterday. Very noticeable audio delay using Zenith DVB318 DVD with audio fed to receiver.
Not crazy about having to spend $229 on a felston audio delay unit. Anyone know of more economical alternatives?

Out of curiosity, are you outputting 1080i from the DVD player, or are you outputting 480i and letting the TV scale?

They were the first to arrive ... they have been available for about a month. The 6768 is in the distribution pipeline ... so the only set not available is the 7178.

Where? Most sites have them as "coming soon"

And I am just 40 east of you in brevard...

Have you gotten your 6168? I got mine last week along with someone else who was being shipped a 5668...JH is person I saw on shipping label.
I haven't got mine yet because I haven't preordered it yet!!! I'm not sure if I should get a 56" or 61" I'm 8ft away. :confused:

Where? Most sites have them as "coming soon"

The 5078 is targeted toward higher-end retailers ... try Magnolia HiFi. Most online sites are not Samsung authorized dealers and therefore can not get the 5078 directly from Samsung.

Just got my new 942 Dish HD / HD / SD receiver... Looks good so far - it should for $750!!! (*) see rant below... Warning to potential Dish Network Buyers!!!

Got the 942 in in anticipation of getting my 6768... Very excited. It's up and running next to my 921 (cost me $1,000 when it came out, now sells for $500) It's expensive being an early adopter.

I have a 65 Mits HD which is at least 5 years old - still hanging tough in the bedroom - fits the alcove perfectly and other than some side band burn in is a great set. Have a Phillips HD in my office (very inexpensive tube HD from Costco - not great but not bad!!! You get what you pay for... and a non-DVR HD receiver from Dish ($250 + 5$ per month)...

I had the Toshiba HLX57??? something like that... was $9,000 retail - got it for $7,100 plus tax from OneCall - but they scare me now because of their restocking fee. Toshiba bought back EVERY single set and still will as they could not get some of the bugs out of their LCOS process - but the set was drop dead gorgeous (floating glass screen - sucker weighed over 350 lbs!

I am hoping that the Sammy does not develop the type of problems the Tosh did. I'm sure it won't but am still nervous about the set's long term outlook. I'm sure that I have nothing to worry about - but I doubt Samsung would buy back the sets if there were incompatibilities with future standards or the sets developed blue / red flare ect. These sets are DLP so that should'nt be an issue but I wonder about the 1080p chip...

I understand that I am 16 on the list for the 6768 and will get one in the first batch. Has anyone taken an early delivery on this set? Perhaps outside of the Powerbuy??? Doubt it but want to ask...

Really not happy with Dish - If you owned a 921 you would understand. Hopefully they get out of their software blues - hire some competent engineers - and perhaps get up to the point of where Tivo was with their beta 10 years ago...

(*)Dish only gives deals on new equipment for new customers, or some discounts if you haven't upgraded in a long time. I have 7 receivers - DON'T NEGLECT TO CONSIDER THE COST OF DISH NETWORK!!!! Cable has it's ups and downs - but generally you do not have to buy the receivers. My cable company is charging 10.95 / month for their HD DVR... I would have to own it for more than 5.5 years to have it cost as much as my Dish 942. The Dish 921 has a great picture - but the software belongs in the hall of programming shame!!!

They were the first to arrive ... they have been available for about a month. The 6768 is in the distribution pipeline ... so the only set not available is the 7178.

It looks like the 7178 will not make it out until Sept, about the same time as the Mitsubishi 73727. Will really be interesting to see these two giants face off.

It looks like the 7178 will not make it out until Sept, about the same time as the Mitsubishi 73727. Will really be interesting to see these two giants face off.


Is it everyone's understanding that the PB for ALL Sammys will last until delivery of the last model (7178?) PLUS 1 month???

TIA...

I haven't got mine yet because I haven't preordered it yet!!! I'm not sure if I should get a 56" or 61" I'm 8ft away. :confused:

If it is any consolation, you're not alone. I'm just over the hill straddling that same fence. Almost seems a shame to pass up the extra 5" for another $300, though that would cover a new DVD and a cable or two. ... decisions, decisions

jmkohm: I'm not sure what the other manufacturers are doing. There are quite a few new models coming out in the next several months. Only time will tell.

My initial impression of the new Sony is that the HDMI audio to TV output is pretty much like the Samsungs.

Stay tuned.

Is it everyone's understanding that the PB for ALL Sammys will last until delivery of the last model (7178?) PLUS 1 month???

TIA...

PowerBuy discussion should be over in the PB thread, but the answer to your question is ... YES.

Is the station's DTV broadcast channel 53? If so this could be due to the station working on a piece of equipment and a PID getting changed or the PSIP data stream being broken for a few minutes and you getting the original channel number instead of the virtual numbers. Unfortunately this is a shortcoming in the DTV world. We are frequently having people contact us with the problem of our channels are missing from their sets and we tell them to re-scan for DTV channels and they reappear. You would be surprised how many problems this fixes.
No. Its 6. And as soon as I ran the auto scan they were back where they belonged again. :confused:

Edit: Actually I do not know what the DTV basis is. How could I tell?

I think Checkhd.com gets there listing information from TitanTv.com (http://www.TitanTv.com), so you can check their site out as well. I think a lot of people just assume that if it's on the digital channel for the given network that it's in HD. Remember, the channels aren't HD channels per se, they are just digital channels.

With respect to your question, I'm afraid I can't answer that one fully. I do know that there are more costs than just buying newer cameras associated with producing shows in HD. I am sure someone else here has a good answer to your question.
Makeup costs for the talking heads are higher in hi-def :D :D

I read somewhere that the TV Guide data is broadcast 4 times a day but can take 3 hours. TV Guide contracts with one of your local channels to handle this broadcast. I don't get TV Guide data at all because I get horrible reception from the channel that has the TV Guide contract.
I only stayed up tell 12:30 am last night so it recovered today.

It sure seems like there is an awfully lot of mashing of teeth re lip sync problems. I have my 6168 connected to the AVR via an optical cable for sound and there is no lip sync problem. Also, I "think" I am getting DD 5.1. It certainly sounds like it on many programs. Likewise, I have my Denon 2910 connected and once again, no lip sync problems and the sound appears to be DD 5.1 wherein it is there on the DVD. Am I missing something and not fully appreciating the problem?? I know one thing for sure, I am really enjoying this Samsung and I have never seen a better quality HD picture. Keeping my fingers crossed, but so far no problems.
The problem with lip synch is there are so many factors. Most outside of the scope of the TV. At best there is a .1 second lag when using an external source and surround processor. That may be imperceptable to many and most of us have to do the 'echo test' to even confirm it.

As far as 5.1 is concerned. You cannot tell by listening. First of all you could be getting a 2.0 signal or PCM that is set for Dolby Pro Logic which supports multi channel surround sound via a synchronization method (another synch issue? :rolleyes: ). You have to have some sort of indicator on your AVR to tell you that you are receiving a 5.1 signal. In fact the other day when I confirmed I had a 5.1 signal from FOX OTA, it barely sounded like stereo while the 2.0 feed from NBC sounded like surround sound.

If you send an audio signal to the TV with the video it stays in sync even though you send the audio back out to the AVR. This is why lots of us wanted the TV to do the multichannel passthru. We were hoping the tv would do its thing and then resync that audio after the video was processed. Since the AVR's take no time at all this would be great.

leemill: just to be clear, why do you feel that the lip sync reports with the TV's internal speakers has been resolved?

Maybe I missed the posts, but I didn't see anyone say that they were using 2 TVs, new Samsung and old CRT, to monitor source lip sync. If so, I'd like to see what they said.

I don't think that we have this aspect resolved, but maybe a few new owners could run several test, this weekend, and tell us what the results are.

Thanks In Advance to all that try these experiments.
I did a number of days ago. If you take an analog TV OTA channel and set a regular analog TV next to the SS, you will get about a .1 second delay between the 2. But you will not detect any lip synch on the SS. Its just a .1 second behind the analog set (both audio and video).

Is there a good scene of something to test the shadow detail? I don't seem to have any. anyone with black on blends in completely with a dark background. I have it in movie mode and am using brigtness and contrast settings from the THX optimizer. A little help would be appreciated.
Thanks
See my comments a few days ago and my post in the DVD forum under the 950 thread. Basically the results were mixed. I used the police car chase scene in VE which was their benchmark for shadow detail.

Makeup costs for the talking heads are higher in hi-def :D :D

Or they ought to be anyway! I'm seeing wrinkes and blemishes that destroy my fantasies. :rolleyes:

So this lag is only happening w/HDMI??? :confused:

What I meant to say is the lag is happening with component. My DVD though has HDMI, it has problems sending audio/video over it. I am not sure this is DVD or TV problem. I am still testing it.

The point I am making is that I too observe video lag using a different DVD player and this lag is different for different DVDs I have used. The exact lag is not repeatable in other words, if I stop, rewind and play the same scene, it looks that the lag changes. This part is hard to test conclusively.

Anyone viewed both the old model 6168 as opposed to the new 6178?

Is the price differential worth it?

What I meant to say is the lag is happening with component. My DVD though has HDMI, it has problems sending audio/video over it. I am not sure this is DVD or TV problem. I am still testing it.

The point I am making is that I too observe video lag using a different DVD player and this lag is different for different DVDs I have used. The exact lag is not repeatable in other words, if I stop, rewind and play the same scene, it looks that the lag changes. This part is hard to test conclusively.

It is dependent on the amount of time it takes the TV to process (convert) the video. This varies from Input to input, DVD to DVD, scene to scene etc.

The Dish 921 has a great picture - but the software belongs in the hall of programming shame!!!

Yes, they were definitely pushing the edge when HD was first coming around. I didn't mind paying that small fortune for the new 6000 receiver when it first hit. And I just ignored the crap UI design and poor software due to the simple fact that I finally had HD that I just couldn't get from cable.

But now the basic HD channels are commodity - everyone offers something. Gotta have a box that delivers a good experience, and Dish has lost that game.

To get back on the topic of Sammy ownership - got my call last week, 6168 is on the truck, credit card is charged (so I am an owner now!!), and I should have it early next week. Time Warner HD PVR is fired up and ready to plug in, Defefinitive Technology speakers towering away, Denon gear ready to light it all up - just a big, big hole right in the middle for my new 1080p baby!!!

Anyone viewed both the old model 6168 as opposed to the new 6178?

Is the price differential worth it?

The 6168 is not an old model just a different model than the 6178. Both are 1080p only the 6168 has the Floating Screen design and I think $100.00 more than the 6178. :cool:

Samsung HL-R5668W Next Week for 30 days at least
Yamaha HTR-5790 Next Week
Samsung DVD-VR325 Next Week
Can’t wait until Next Week!!
:eek:

Is there a good scene of something to test the shadow detail? I don't seem to have any. anyone with black on blends in completely with a dark background. I have it in movie mode and am using brigtness and contrast settings from the THX optimizer. A little help would be appreciated.
Thanks

Actually, I'm looking forward to seeing SW: ATOC in Palpatine's office where Palpatine is sitting at his desk with the bright window behind him. There is a whole lot of detail in his robes.

Anyone viewed both the old model 6168 as opposed to the new 6178?

Is the price differential worth it?

The 68 series and the 78 series are both new models, with only cosmetic differences seperating the two. The price difference most likely reflects the greater expected sales of the 68 series, as they are targeted to electronics stores like BB and CC. The higher end stores like Magnolia and Tweeter will sell the 78 series.

No. Its 6. And as soon as I ran the auto scan they were back where they belonged again. :confused:

Edit: Actually I do not know what the DTV basis is. How could I tell?

I did an FCC search and their DTV channel is 53, so what I described earlier is probably what happened. Don't be surprised if it happens from time to time and you have to re-scan for your OTA channels.

E

ccouper: thanks for your post on lip sync. However, I was talking about the few posts that we have seen that mention lip sync problems using the TVs internal speakers. In those cases where this is seen, I was wondering if folks could "quickly" look at a CRT TV and see if the problem was with the source material. I know that we have had a number of posts about source problems with several cable and satellite channels. I would like to confirm what the problem actually was.

I strongly suspect that it was with the source material, but I would like confirmation. I'm getting mighty close to buying one and I just don't want any surprises.

The two times I saw lip sync from the internal speakers, when I was testing, was definitely from the source. But for me 99.99% of the time I will use my receiver for audio which has no lip sync problem becasue of the audio delay, except when there is a source problem. I have seen a lip-sync problem happen occasionally for the last 4 years when I was watching HD on a crt set.

UCSB: could you please post the link to the PB thread?

TIA!

UCSB: could you please post the link to the PB thread?

TIA!

Just to speed you along check your Private messages.

I got my 6168 from the Power Buy on Wednesday. I love this set.:D

Some short observations...
XBOX via componet and optical out to my Kenwood 6070VR. NO noticable lag. Games played..Halo 2 for about a hour and a half, Soul Calibure 2, Dead or Alive Ultimate, Riddick.

Comcast 6012 via HDMI and componet. No lipsyc issues on Discovery HD or the HD locals. SD quality varies from station to station.

My JVC 480p DVD player via componet. No lypsync. Pictures is pretty bad but the player a cheap one and I only hooked it up to see how it looks.

HTPC via VGA. This is where the set really shines for me. DVD's play great through Zoomplayer. Some 720p clips I"ve played (Serenity: The Movie and Kamichu (Japenese Anime) look stunning. Haf-life 2 and Doom: Resurrection look great on the big screen, especially Half-Life that has native 16x9 support. I think I'm going to put my CRT monitor in the closet!

Rainbows...Depends on the source for me. Shows in black or white really hit me wiith rainbows. Other sources I do not notice them.

The WOW factor has not worn off yet. The 6168 replaces my Samsung 27 HDTV CRT set. This thing is so cool :D


In ~65 pages of discussion I feel like the above quoted post has been one of the most informative, to-the-point, beneficial, and promising posts so far. Thanks for this feedback!!!! :D

That is all good news to me and makes me feel more comfortable about my preordered sammy.

I want to place my 5668 in my entertainment area over my fireplace. I have cooling fans installed in craw space blowing cool air into the cavity. I have vent fans in my fireplace. I have nerve had a heat problem although you would think I would. I also like the idea of the TV being above me. I had an Olevia syntax 50” 780p setting there for a 30 day trial and my wife and I like the position above us. More of theater feel looking up not to mention easy on the neck when reclining. My concern is with the height of the TV I have to slope it 13 deg. which will correct the pitch due to the height. Can anyone tell me if the TV setting on a slope will effect is performance?

Has anybody tried plugging a PC / MAC running at 1080p and playing any of apple's HD trailers? I'm still waiting for my set and eager to plug in my X800.

I did an FCC search and their DTV channel is 53, so what I described earlier is probably what happened. Don't be surprised if it happens from time to time and you have to re-scan for your OTA channels.

E
Thank you

Yuck. :(

I have about 20 good channels in my area. Since I am on a hill I can get about another 30 channels of garbage signal and garbage content. Its a pain to have to go in and delete all this garbage.

The only way I seem to be able to get channels into the set is via auto-scan. For example I cannot simply roll through the add/delete channels nor can I add a channel by selecting its major/minor (ex 6-1Enter). I can only access channels that autoscan found.

Does anyone know how to 'force' a HLR to accept a channel (DTV) without autoscanning?

ccouper: thanks for your post on lip sync. However, I was talking about the few posts that we have seen that mention lip sync problems using the TVs internal speakers. In those cases where this is seen, I was wondering if folks could "quickly" look at a CRT TV and see if the problem was with the source material. I know that we have had a number of posts about source problems with several cable and satellite channels. I would like to confirm what the problem actually was.

I strongly suspect that it was with the source material, but I would like confirmation. I'm getting mighty close to buying one and I just don't want any surprises.
wtr1: I think you are asking for the impossible. I tried to answer you that there is no lip synch with internal speakers, just a delayed synch overall (the echo) between a pure analog set and the SS.

For me any lip synch on any source is so small I have to convince myself I am seeing any at all. Then its like dialog to dialog, not constant. Plus even if you concentrate on peoples lips sometimes they move them when they talk and other times they don't. The only way I really know that the common lip synch is there is by doing an echo test.

[Rant on] :(
I have never seen anyone set their delay higher than 130 ms and many can set at less than 100. For those not doing the math thats less than a 10th of a second. You gotta get something else to do with your life to let that make or break your day (gamers excepted). Now we are in hair splitting areas. I guess thats fine for the AVS forum (maybe the high end group) but seems to be a little over the top for anyone considering a Samsung TV.

We even have reports now that the Sony Qualia has the exact same synch delay that the x8's do. You don't seem to see much noise from that camp about it even though they paid 2.5 to 3 times as much for their sets.
[Rant off]

I can't remember anyone who had empirical information on a internal speaker lip synch. A few folks just mentioned that they thought they saw it. Again its probably the source. I can see no reason why the TV would just every once in a while get the sound out of synch with the video. With the TV its either going to be always or never. Other than that its gotta be the source. I suspect in cases where the original may have been digital and was converted to analog.

Just received my 6178 to replace my 73" Mits. As others have reported, I too have red and blue spots in black areas after the set has been on for 10-15 mins. This occurs on both component inputs. Does not seem to occur on the coax.

I am outputting 1080i via component to the tv. Audio is digital coax to the receiver. The receiver (6 year old yamaha) allows up to 5 m/s audio delay but that's still not enough to compensate.
So I'm still looking for a cheaper alternative to a felston


Originally Posted by VeloSlacker
Got my 5668 yesterday. Very noticeable audio delay using Zenith DVB318 DVD with audio fed to receiver.
Not crazy about having to spend $229 on a felston audio delay unit. Anyone know of more economical alternatives?

Out of curiosity, are you outputting 1080i from the DVD player, or are you outputting 480i and letting the TV scale?

[Rant on] :(
I have never seen anyone set their delay higher than 130 ms and many can set at less than 100. For those not doing the math thats less than a 10th of a second. You gotta get something else to do with your life to let that make or break your day (gamers excepted). Now we are in hair splitting areas. I guess thats fine for the AVS forum (maybe the high end group) but seems to be a little over the top for anyone considering a Samsung TV.

Actually 100 to 130 ms of video delay is very noticeable and can be very annoying to many people. I have 132 ms of video delay on an SD input and everyone who has seen my set has clearly seen a lip sync problem when there is no audio delay applied.

I agree, it is very noticeable, but I would never watch HD without the use of a device with audio delay, unless I'm using the speakers in the TV.

ccouper wrote:
For me any lip synch on any source is so small I have to convince myself I am seeing any at all. Then its like dialog to dialog, not constant. Plus even if you concentrate on peoples lips sometimes they move them when they talk and other times they don't. The only way I really know that the common lip synch is there is by doing an echo test.

[Rant on] :(
I have never seen anyone set their delay higher than 130 ms and many can set at less than 100. For those not doing the math thats less than a 10th of a second. You gotta get something else to do with your life to let that make or break your day (gamers excepted). Now we are in hair splitting areas.

***************************************
After almost 30 years in television I can tell you that lip sync is a slippery issue. I have to deal with it all day, every day. The number of places where video and audio travel different paths that they are two numerous to mention.

Frustration leads to heartbreak in the reliance on picture/audio sync in the post production process. There was a time in my career that I would spend days and even weeks editing a gazillion edit video that would in some manner or form be precisely edited to a piece of music. The thrill of seeing this effort work would come crashing down once graphic manipulation was done to the picture (delaying vids by 1 frame) or the music was re-layed in post sound and placed a frame or just a field out of sync.

Once a project has been finished, satellite transmission can many times be counted on to trash whatever precise picture/audio sync was left.

And for those are trying to judge whether the movie/tv show they are watching has proper lip/sync make damn sure that you are not trying to judge the lip sync of ADR work (automated dialogue replacement). It is not "in sync". It never was "in sync" and never will be "in sync." (Digital audio post production can make these sync issues less apparent, but the point is made. Edit: My audio buddies, down the hall, just explained to me that actually with a tool such as VocAlign in Protools the waveforms for dialogue replacement can be matched exactly. But again, don't hope for this level of precision from anything before the digital age. )

Just the other day, I was confronted with a new "gotcha" in the Sync Wars. I was working on a show that was shot in HD and downconverted to SD. Sync went out. Apparently, there is yet another sync issue source to look out for.

I agree that obsession with lip sync can be misplaced. (I remember one time where I was convinced that my edit of the taped on-air talent was out of sync. After examination my editing numbers, I realized that the man "talked out of sync" or at least appeared to.) And another time I was asked to repurpose existing animation to sync with an actors 30 second completely new VO for a promo. It worked.

My war stories are beginning to sound like the Dustin Hoffman producer character in Wag the Dog.....so I'll quit now.


As to the amount of sync slippage that one will notice-- I can tell that a piece that I have worked on for days has become 1 frame out which is .033 sec or even a field out (.016 sec). Many people/but not all, will notice 2 frames or .066 sec. Three or four frames is noticeable by most people paying some attention to the picture (.099 or .133 sec)


Jim

The 6168 is not an old model just a different model than the 6178. Both are 1080p only the 6168 has the Floating Screen design and I think $100.00 more than the 6178. :cool:

Samsung HL-R5668W Next Week for 30 days at least
Yamaha HTR-5790 Next Week
Samsung DVD-VR325 Next Week
Can’t wait until Next Week!!
:eek:

Actually, the 6178 is $350 more than the 6168 over on the TVA Powerbuy site. I guess that glossy black paint is really good stuff. :rolleyes:

Ok Guys....... It looks like Jim (Pixguy) is the Lip Sync Guru.

After reading post after post on Lip Sync, I am beginning to notice it and I have a ten-year-old Sony 32" CRT!

I am waiting patiently for my 1080p :rolleyes: - My first HDTV.

I just set up a Sony S975V DVD Player with my with an HL-R5668. IMO this is an excellent option for those of you looking for a relatively inexpensive DVD player to go with your 68. I first tried the Samsung 950 and it couldn't pass BTB and was not a very good picture. I also had a Denon 1910, but the MB'ing on that was terrible. As for the Sony, it passes BTB without a problem and there is no MB'ing, which makes for an excellent picture.

With all those posts about the lip sync issue, which is definitely noticeable on my 68, I have been able to set up and audio delay with my Yamaha 2400, however, what has become most difficult for me is finding an optimal level. As I am adjusting it, I can see that it's not in sync, but the hard part for me is figuring out if the audio is ahead of the video or vice versa. Anyone have any suggestions?

My other problem with the delay is that it causes my OTA to be out of sync if I watch it through the TV. Fortunately this is not a big issue since I almost always watch OTA through my HD TiVo and really only would watch it for live sports (where the audio sync is not a big issue). For those of you who are buying a new A/V Receiver, I strongly recommend getting one that allows you to set a separate delay for each input (unfortunately my Yamaha only allows me to set one delay that will apply to all inputs).

BTW - I don't know if it has been confirmed yet, but when using the TV's antenna coax input and outputting DD to an A/V reciever via the optical cable, the sound is DEFINITELY DD 5.1.

I’ve tried to set the audio delay on the Felston to a given value and leave it alone. I think a delay of around 100 ms. is a reasonable number. As Pixguy implied there are too many errors in normal broadcasting to be perfect. I believe a 100 ms. delay brings you close to the video delay of the TV regardless of source. After watching SD broadcasts, HD broadcasts and DVDs with a 100 ms. delay for two days I’m happy with the results. It’s not perfect but it brings viewers closer to where they were before the increase in video processing time created by this batch of TVs.

PS: Thank you Pixguy for sharing your experiences.

I can't remember anyone who had empirical information on a internal speaker lip synch. A few folks just mentioned that they thought they saw it. Again its probably the source. I can see no reason why the TV would just every once in a while get the sound out of synch with the video. With the TV its either going to be always or never. Other than that its gotta be the source. I suspect in cases where the original may have been digital and was converted to analog.

Now that my 6168 is working again, (bad ballast), I've been trying to pay more attention to the lip sync thing. First let me say that the lag (when I notice it) really doesn't bother me unless it's really prominent (which I've rarely seen).

But... I am seeing sync issues with the internal speakers... Most of it very minor and I'm sure related to the source. I couple of times when I've seen it on SD channels, I've checked out my 26" CRT and when I look really close, I see the same sync problem. The "mouths" are JUST SO BIG on this 61" it's easier to pick up. But here's another thing that has happened a few times... when I change channels (STB = SA 8300HD), from an HD to a SD channel the sync is WAY off (internal speakers). On one occasion this morning I ran and checked my CRT and no sync problem. Then after a couple of minutes of viewing, it went away. Weird. I don't know if this is related but when I make a switch to SD, the screen kind of goes wacko for a couple seconds (out of sync picture, then blank screen then sometimes static), then the channel comes in. I assume this is the STB. Currently, I have it set to output only 1080i and 480p. Maybe I should list all outputs (include 720p and 480i) and let the Sammy upconvert.

Here's another little tidbit of LipSync stuff to fuel this discussion... Last night I was at my sister's house and they have a SONY 60 or 61" RP set (last years model) and I noticed lip sync a few times on that set as well. (On both the internal speakers on an HD channel and on a DVD fed through an AVR) Again, nothing major... nobody else mentioned it, but IT WAS THERE.

Overall folks... I'm THRILLED with this TV! The PQ with HD channels and with my DVDs (SS 950) is just absolutely wonderful! :D

Crazy about HD in KC...

That is, frustratingly so, correct. NEITHER have entered distribution channeld. Both are now delayed until the end of August, early September :-(

Dan

Where? Most sites have them as "coming soon"
:(

With all those posts about the lip sync issue, which is definitely noticeable on my 68, I have been able to set up and audio delay with my Yamaha 2400, however, what has become most difficult for me is finding an optimal level. As I am adjusting it, I can see that it's not in sync, but the hard part for me is figuring out if the audio is ahead of the video or vice versa. Anyone have any suggestions?

If the video delay is present on your DVD input Digital Video Essentials has a test pattern that man help you set the correct audio delay to eliminate lip sync.

I just hooked up my PC with 6600 GT via component connection that came with the card. It looks good at 1920x1080 with overscan. I scaled back to 1632x920 so I could see the whole screen. I can't adjust the overscan on the TV settings because I'm connected via component and not VGA. Text is very legible and surfing the net from the couch is no problem. I may try VGA and/or DVI next. I want to do some gaming. :)

I feel bad for everyone here that is tired of waiting....... and waiting...... and still waiting......... for answers and for their TV. It must be hard. I am still in your shoes until next week. I was waiting for 3 months. I even sold my Sony 61 inch Projection three weeks ago and didnt watch any TV. I do however have a Sony WEGA Engine 36" LCD flat screen upstairs that I would watch at night. I feel bad for people who are waiting and have no TV at all. OUCH!!!

I’ve tried to set the audio delay on the Felston to a given value and leave it alone. I think a delay of around 100 ms. is a reasonable number. As Pixguy implied there are too many errors in normal broadcasting to be perfect. I believe a 100 ms. delay brings you close to the video delay of the TV regardless of source. After watching SD broadcasts, HD broadcasts and DVDs with a 100 ms. delay for two days I’m happy with the results. It’s not perfect but it brings viewers closer to where they were before the increase in video processing time created by this batch of TVs.

PS: Thank you Pixguy for sharing your experiences.

So if I have an AVR that I can set delays on (by input), I don't need the Felston, right? Assuming it goes to at least 100ms?

Actually, the 6178 is $350 more than the 6168 over on the TVA Powerbuy site. I guess that glossy black paint is really good stuff. :rolleyes:

That's strange because the price before the PB has the 6168 more expencsive than the 6178 :eek:

I just hooked up my PC with 6600 GT via component connection that came with the card. It looks good at 1920x1080 with overscan. I scaled back to 1632x920 so I could see the whole screen.

This is something I don't get. If the native resolution of the TV is 1920x1080, how come it's not trivial to get 1-to-1 pixel mapping with a PC outputting a 1920x1080 signal? Is this just impossible with the 6168?

But... I am seeing sync issues with the internal speakers... Most of it very minor and I'm sure related to the source. I couple of times when I've seen it on SD channels, I've checked out my 26" CRT and when I look really close, I see the same sync problem. The "mouths" are JUST SO BIG on this 61" it's easier to pick up. But here's another thing that has happened a few times... when I change channels (STB = SA 8300HD), from an HD to a SD channel the sync is WAY off (internal speakers). On one occasion this morning I ran and checked my CRT and no sync problem. Then after a couple of minutes of viewing, it went away. Weird. I don't know if this is related but when I make a switch to SD, the screen kind of goes wacko for a couple seconds (out of sync picture, then blank screen then sometimes static), then the channel comes in. I assume this is the STB. Currently, I have it set to output only 1080i and 480p. Maybe I should list all outputs (include 720p and 480i) and let the Sammy upconvert.



I have the SA8300HD connected via component to a 5668 and set for passthrough and have not seen any lip sync issues using the internal speakers. You might want to try that (or auto HDMI if you are using HDMI)

I have the SA8300HD connected via component to a 5668 and set for passthrough and have not seen any lip sync issues using the internal speakers. You might want to try that (or auto HDMI if you are using HDMI)


I have the 6168 connected via hdmi to a sa8300 and I also see occasional slight lip sync problems. The tv is so good that I can work with it if I need to.

This is something I don't get. If the native resolution of the TV is 1920x1080, how come it's not trivial to get 1-to-1 pixel mapping with a PC outputting a 1920x1080 signal? Is this just impossible with the 6168?

Unlike PC monitors all TVs overscan so you see all image, not close caption data, cut off edges etc.

What they should do now, is show the full 1920x1080 and give the user options to zoom 5% , 10%, etc.

I just hooked up my PC with 6600 GT via component connection that came with the card. It looks good at 1920x1080 with overscan. I scaled back to 1632x920 so I could see the whole screen. I can't adjust the overscan on the TV settings because I'm connected via component and not VGA. Text is very legible and surfing the net from the couch is no problem. I may try VGA and/or DVI next. I want to do some gaming. :)


VGA is a must if HDMI does not work, component will not compare.

Now that my 6168 is working again, (bad ballast), I've been trying to pay more attention to the lip sync thing. First let me say that the lag (when I notice it) really doesn't bother me unless it's really prominent (which I've rarely seen).

But... I am seeing sync issues with the internal speakers... Most of it very minor and I'm sure related to the source. I couple of times when I've seen it on SD channels, I've checked out my 26" CRT and when I look really close, I see the same sync problem. The "mouths" are JUST SO BIG on this 61" it's easier to pick up. But here's another thing that has happened a few times... when I change channels (STB = SA 8300HD), from an HD to a SD channel the sync is WAY off (internal speakers). On one occasion this morning I ran and checked my CRT and no sync problem. Then after a couple of minutes of viewing, it went away. Weird. I don't know if this is related but when I make a switch to SD, the screen kind of goes wacko for a couple seconds (out of sync picture, then blank screen then sometimes static), then the channel comes in. I assume this is the STB. Currently, I have it set to output only 1080i and 480p. Maybe I should list all outputs (include 720p and 480i) and let the Sammy upconvert.

Here's another little tidbit of LipSync stuff to fuel this discussion... Last night I was at my sister's house and they have a SONY 60 or 61" RP set (last years model) and I noticed lip sync a few times on that set as well. (On both the internal speakers on an HD channel and on a DVD fed through an AVR) Again, nothing major... nobody else mentioned it, but IT WAS THERE.

Overall folks... I'm THRILLED with this TV! The PQ with HD channels and with my DVDs (SS 950) is just absolutely wonderful! :D

Crazy about HD in KC...

Maybe it's the 8300? Is it outputting directly to your AVR or is it through the Sammy?

nother question: WHAT IS OVERSCAN, i've heard it mentioned here thousands of times but i dont know what it is

nother question: qhat is 1x1 pixel mapping?

Believe it or not, the 6168 is slighly higher price than the 6178 model.
I suggest this is so, because the 6168 model is a split design case, and the 6178 model is one solid case mold, therefore it's cheaper to make one mold instead of two. That is my take on it.

Is there a setting that will turn the picture slightly. I just put up the overscan screen and realized that the picture on the right is almost 1/4 inch lower than on the left side. If I push back on the top right of the TV it will even out but it obviously won't stay there. I know there is a setting in RP CRT sets but I'm not sure about DLP. If there is the calibrator can adjust in next month otherwise I think I'll need to get Samsung to correct it.

:) Believe it or not, the 6168 is slighly higher price than the 6178 model

Where in the world did you get your pricing? Did it come from the PB? The 78 is $445.00 dollars more than the 68 and so how do you get an equation that the 6168 is more money?The true money which is in the R&D of the Technology within the mold - not the mold itself. The separate cases were designed to appeal to two different distribution channels they are cloned under that skin.

The shiny black frame units are for the higher end retail channel which = higher margins just as is the nature of the two different distribution channels and the Floating screen was designed for the primary consumer channel but the TV's are identical and the fact Samsung owns their own plants from A-Z any true cost differential is nominal for the manufacturer to create those molds but intended to produce extra profit margins as Samsung is a master at this now.

Samsungs profits were more than ten times higher than Sony last year and will be an even wider margin this year. Somehow you've appeared to reverse your math if it's from our PB. That $445 can extend the warranty 3-4 years and get bulb coverage or buy a stand. :D

[QUOTE=westa6969]:)

Where in the world did you get your pricing? Did it come from the PB? [B]The 78 is $445.00 dollars more than the 68 and so how do you get an equation that the 6168 is more money?

Some companies on the web list the 68 higher than the 78 model. I have seen it myslef. I always question that? I thought maybe from PB. Other were a mistake. No problems.

Thanks for telling me about the mold. It is the technology behind it, not the mold itself. I knew that. But also it cost to make the mold a different way.

So if I have an AVR that I can set delays on (by input), I don't need the Felston, right? Assuming it goes to at least 100ms?

Right!

You may find some of those on-line retailers here - http://www.panix.com/~donwiss/pictures/BrooklynStores/

There are numerous On-line companies that will take advantage of the fact these are new in the market and most B&M's don't have them yet and their pricing can be ridiculous and quite often they are lying about having them in inventory.

http://www.plasmaplanet.com/CONTACT_US/FRAUD-ALERT.htm

You can also check ratings of most at http://www.resellerratings.com

Tread carefully with anyone you see listed there and many may be familiar in those ghetto on-line dealers - TVA PB is hard to beat and it has a 5 star return policy.

Good Luck.

That makes sense from PB for the warranty. I didnt see that. But on the web site www.TVAUTHORITY.COM, look at the price the 68 is higher than the 78. Most companies sell the 68 higher than that of the 78.

here is the link.
http://www.tvauthority.com/manufacturer/Samsung.asp

Thanks Westa6969, Nice Links!!! The Pictures Were Actually Funny. Fraud Is High Now A Days.

AbMagFab: if your HT receiver has an audio delay feature, input by input, and can delay at least 100 ms, you should not need the Felston unit. The most delay that I have seen anyone say that they are using is 133 ms.

I am thinking seriously about just using the TV's optical output with a cable card and forgetting about adding a delay.

I'm not sure what I will do about a DVD????? I'll probably wait until a number of issues are resolved.

Is there a setting that will turn the picture slightly. I just put up the overscan screen and realized that the picture on the right is almost 1/4 inch lower than on the left side. If I push back on the top right of the TV it will even out but it obviously won't stay there. I know there is a setting in RP CRT sets but I'm not sure about DLP. If there is the calibrator can adjust in next month otherwise I think I'll need to get Samsung to correct it.

If we can get a copy of the service manual for the HLR set, it can be adjusted as it was in the following HLN manual. It requires some tricky manipulations.

pgs 42-46 in his pdf

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4840798&&#post4840798

For anyone who is interested, I talked to Kin at TVA today about the 6168. They are out of stock waiting for another shipment. They are still filling Power Buy preorders.

My estimate is that the Power Buy will be available for at least another 6 weeks. It will last 30 days after the last of the Samsung series (probably 7168) starts to ship.

I have satisfied my lip sync issues with the Samsung, but I want to see one, in person, before I order. There may be one in town, next week, for me to review.

I have Toshiba M35 laptop which I need to connect to 6168. Laptop has Nvdia FX go5200 video card with max resolution of 1280x800. It has s-video and VGA out and one empty PCMACIA card slot. How do it get best possible screen on TV?
-- Using VGA ---> DVI cable? or S-video cable? or
-- Is there any new video card available which i can use via pcmacia slot for higher resolution?

VGA is a must if HDMI does not work, component will not compare.

I managed to up my PC to 6168 (via component) screen resolution to 1808x1028 at 60 Hz usiing nVidia control panel (see attached pic). This resolution fills the screen 100% Video card is 6600 GT. Link contains full size screenshot at 1808x1028.

The text seems crisp to me. I can surf from the couch and read fine text. Also have had success playing GTA San Adreas at 1280x1024. I am ready to try VGA and HDMI now, but what should I expect to improve? What should I be looking for/targeting.
http://members.cox.net/dolphins/Component_Screenshot.jpg

^tear.....so beautiful

It's interesting, the Felston website says "There are a number of causes of lip sync error, where the sound appears slightly after a person's lips move. " Isn't this backwards, i.e., isn't it that the sound appears before a person's lips move and hence the reason you need to add a delay?

LipSync article from Audioholics:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/AV_lip_sync_delay.html

FELSTON Review:

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/356/v/1/sp/

If we can't beat this horse to death at least we can view it from an AV experts perspective. :D

I have ordered a HLR-6168 and I also have a E* DishPVR 921. I would like to get a DVI-HDMI cable and I wanted to know what "Type" of HDMI connector is on the Sammy.

There is a "Type A" which is 19 pins and a newer "Type B". I have gotten the following information so far about the cable I will need

DVI-D "Dual Link" to HDMI Adapter (I dont want to buy a cable for this machine)
HDMI-HDMI Cable...

I need to know what HDMI "Type" for the TV.

Thanks

I cannot imagine them not having the newest HDMI as I bought a 950 HD DVD and it came with the new HDMI cable which is capable of 8 channels. I believe the old version can only pass 2 channel sound - both would work but you want to maximize sound channels for 5.1 or > .

http://www.hdmi.org/index.asp

Check RAM - I just bought a high quality DVI-HDMI to link between my Comcast HD STB and the new 6768 yesterday and I think I paid about $38 for it. The new version has been approved since April 2004 if my memory is correct. The old version would work as legacy but could not pass higher than 2 channel I believe but could not imagine any manufacturer providing less than current standards in their connectivity. :)

I have the same dish to. I replaced the entire cable from the 921 to the Samsung TV. It is expensive from Monster but well worth it. DVI to HDMI cable 2 meters long. for $149.99

Link contains full size screenshot at 1808x1028.

For a second I thought "Hey, that looks super sharp for a TV!" until I realized you had just taken a desktop screenshot from your computer :)

Could you take a picture of the TV screen showing the desktop and post it? I'm curious how it looks.

I'll post the HD 950 results in the DVD forum.
I’ve exhausted everything I can think of to get Blacker than Black, using DVE on the HD 950 with my 6168.

I finally ended up with the following:
HD 950
Brightness - level 1

Vandu - I was wondering whether you ever tried to set brightness on the 950 at 5 instead of 1. I have a Sony DVD player and could not pass BTB UNTIL I increased brightness on the DVD player and then it passed without any problem.

I managed to up my PC to 6168 (via component) ...

Here's a small program that will put up test patterns
for what ever resolution you are running at.

Give it a try. Its a great way to see if your getting 1:1 pixel mapping, and check for other issues.

Right click the display and select pixels or pixels2 .
You should see a clear pattern of dots without banding, noise, etc.
Try the other patterns as well. Let us know how it looks.

Try the gradient tests as well, it should be a smooth color change, but often DLP sets show banding. Let us know the results.


http://members.shaw.ca/photodisplay/Frames.zip

Set up my 6178 yesterday...think I was the second Tweeters delivery in Texas. Short notes until I can report more: PQ insanely good. No rainbows. DVD's incredible....so far, I'm blown away!!
:cool:

Love my 6178

Nice to here that Hookster got a good 6178. I hope mine is that good too. I am glad that you dont see any rainbow's. I didnt either looking at one on display in Vegas. Although the rainbow effect is there, some can see it and some cant.

Okay, so what's the conclusion on the digital out of the TV? Does it pass through DD5.1 from an HDMI, or only from a cablecard source? If the latter, it's useless unless you have cablecard (I'm a DirecTV guy, hoping to move to VerizonTV sometime down the road).

Okay, so what's the conclusion on the digital out of the TV? Does it pass through DD5.1 from an HDMI, or only from a cablecard source? If the latter, it's useless unless you have cablecard (I'm a DirecTV guy, hoping to move to VerizonTV sometime down the road).
It passes 5.1 through cablecard and through the coax antenna in, but i'm pretty sure it does NOT pass 5.1 via HDMI.

The Sound Advice Clearwater has the 5078 and the 6178 on display. The 50" was setting right next to the 720P and even from across the room you could see the difference. Hurry 6768.

I have the same dish to. I replaced the entire cable from the 921 to the Samsung TV. It is expensive from Monster but well worth it. DVI to HDMI cable 2 meters long. for $149.99

Here is a better cable from BetterCables for half the price:
http://www.bettercables.com/test2mhd.html

Received my HLR6168W a few weeks ago from TVA and am ready to make a initial impression report in comparison with my old HLN617W.

First, the equipment used:

TVs: HLN617W, HLR6168W
AV Receiver: Panasonic SA-XR70 Digital Amp
DVD: Panasonic DVD-S97 connected by RAM Electronics HDMI cable
STB: Motorola "MOXI" HD PVR (Adelphia Cable) connected by component
GAME: XBOX connected by component (Microsoft HD AV pack)
Speakers: Definitive Technologies ProCinema 80/ProCenter 100
Digital Camera for photos: Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ20 (5MP optically stabilized)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Photo (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15935/size/big/ppuser/7503141) of the two DLPs before being set up.

Photo (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15936/size/big/ppuser/7503141) of the different remotes.

With regards to the remotes, the new one is, IMHO, super-ugly compared with the previous one. It also places the "aspect" button (labeled P. Size on new remote) under the sliding cover, inconvenient for me considering how much I have to use it until Moxi starts native passthrough of 480i signals (it forces stretch of 4:3 images and I hate that). On the up side, the new remote transmits a bit better than the old remote.

Photo (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15941/size/big/ppuser/7503141) of the "bonus gift" PowerCenter HTS1000 MKII that AVS sent. That is a heavy, substantial block.

Photo (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15937/size/big/ppuser/7503141) of the HLN617W showing "Troy" at 720p recorded on HD-DVR (Moxi) off of HD HBO provided by Adelphia Cable. The close up comparison photos of the movie on both TVs didn't turn out too sharp so I haven't posted them. However, to the naked eye they appear similar.

Photo (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15939/size/big/ppuser/7503141) of the final setup of the HLR6168W. It fits our custom-built media center even better than the HLN617W did, and I didn't need to remove the "foot" as I was worried I would have to to make it fit vertically. It is showing Star Wars AOTC.

Finally, here are comparison photos, from the same scene in AOTC, first shown upconverted to 720p by the DVD-S97 and displayed at 720p on the HLN617W (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15938/size/big/ppuser/7503141) and then shown upconverted to 1080i by the DVD-S97 and displayed at 1080p on the HLR6168W (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15940/size/big/ppuser/7503141).

When watching that scene on the two TVs, by naked eye I could not see any differences. However, examining the digital photos I could see more detail on the photo taken from the HLR6168W, especially in the white areas of Mace Windu's robe, his lightsaber handle, and metal features on Jango Fett's armor. I am fairly sure that in the normal course of watching the movie, few people would be able to pick up those differences.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now on to the review in general...

The bad: The new TV, by naked eye, does not appear to have a noticably better resolution compared with the old.

The worse: The new TV has significantly more lag while playing Halo 2 compared with the old. The HLN617W, in comparison to a direct-view TV I have, introduces about 25-50ms of lag, which did not seem to impact play significantly. However, the HLR6168W introduces about 75-125ms of lag, making aiming much more difficult.

The good: TV is much brighter than previous. Menus are pretty. More AV inputs.

The better: The GAME setting eliminates most of the lag, at least by my estimate to lower than 25ms, thus making it better than the HLN617W for Halo 2. You do, however, lose progressive scan.

The I'm-not-decided-yet: Contrast/black levels are not noticably better, but I need to watch more movies to decide.

Hope this review and the photos were useful! Thanks for everybody on AVSForum for helping out on this purchase (and my previous one of the HLN617W). :D

IS THERE, OR IS THERE NOT CURRENTLY 1080P BROADCASTS OTA??? :confused: :confused: :confused: :D

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD? NO, THERE'S NOT!!!

NOTHER QUESTION...WHY DON'T YOU TRY READING THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS YOU'VE ALREADY ASKED A DOZEN TIMES?

NOTHER QUESTION...EVER TRY READING?

NOTHER QUESTION...CAN YOU READ?

RANT OFF.....:D

Here's a small program that will put up test patterns
for what ever resolution you are running at.

Give it a try. Its a great way to see if your getting 1:1 pixel mapping, and check for other issues.

Right click the display and select pixels or pixels2 .
You should see a clear pattern of dots without banding, noise, etc.
Try the other patterns as well. Let us know how it looks.

Try the gradient tests as well, it should be a smooth color change, but often DLP sets show banding. Let us know the results.


http://members.shaw.ca/photodisplay/Frames.zip

Thanks for the utility. The gray gradient looked good. The color gradients were banded. I switched over to VGA from component and the picture is better. It's smoother and there's no shimmering. I'm at 1920x1080x60 Hz. There is a 1/2" to 1" black border around the 1920x1080 computer image. I am unable to "stretch" it like I did in component mode. I don't know if there is a way to fully fill the screen. I attached some miscellaneous pics (true pics and not screenshots).
http://members.cox.net/dolphins/TV.jpg
http://members.cox.net/dolphins/Lotus.jpg
http://members.cox.net/dolphins/Excel.jpg
http://members.cox.net/dolphins/Closeup.jpg

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD? NO, THERE'S NOT!!!

NOTHER QUESTION...WHY DON'T YOU TRY READING THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS YOU'VE ALREADY ASKED A DOZEN TIMES?

NOTHER QUESTION...EVER TRY READING?

NOTHER QUESTION...CAN YOU READ?

RANT OFF.....:D


Good show! I love it.

Nother one bites the dust.

Vandu - I was wondering whether you ever tried to set brightness on the 950 at 5 instead of 1. I have a Sony DVD player and could not pass BTB UNTIL I increased brightness on the DVD player and then it passed without any problem.


RMSko, I tried setting the brightness on the 950 to 5 and then checked the “Reverse gray ramps and steps” on DVE. With the the 950 brightness set to 5 the white bars were washed out and could not be adjusted in. I reset the 950 brightness to 1 and all the white bars are visible but the last two black bars are not discernable. The 950 is connected to the 6168 through HDMI.

Hope this review and the photos were useful! Thanks for everybody on AVSForum for helping out on this purchase (and my previous one of the HLN617W). :D

Thanks F. Yu.

Most HD channels look only slightly better from my JVC D-ILA ( except of course
the BL and CR are much better ).

But Discovery HD, HD Net, Equator, look incredibly better. I was wondering
have you viewed the content on these channels and compared your old
set verssus new set?

Anyone know what stand this is?

HL-R5678W

Thanks

Thanks for the utility. The gray gradient looked good. The color gradients were banded. ...

Thanks for posting feedback.

Someone mentioned a mode that expands the VGA, you end up with over scan but should have 1:1 pixel mapping looking at the Pixels and Pixels2 test. You may have to adjust the fine and course adjustments as well.

As far as banding, the 50% and 100% gradient patterns should look smooth.

The color scales are banded into 16 levels of each color. They can help set brightness and contrast, and look for off colors at different levels.

The overscan test is useful too, to check if your image is centered.

If you or anyone finds the adjustment to expand the image, could you post the Pixels2 result?

This is something I don't get. If the native resolution of the TV is 1920x1080, how come it's not trivial to get 1-to-1 pixel mapping with a PC outputting a 1920x1080 signal? Is this just impossible with the 6168?

It is possible to get 1920x1080 with 1:1 mapping. I have been able to get it by tweaking the videocard timing and adjusting the TV's Wide PC picture size to maximum. I use Linux so I don't know how to do it in WIndows.

If you're asking why it's not possible to get 1:1 mapping with just any 1920x1080 videocard setting, then my guess is that it has to do with limitations in the VGA analog-digital conversion. This wouldn't be an issue for a straight digital path using HDMI or DVI.

If you're asking why it's not possible to get 1920x1080 with no overscan and 1:1 pixel mapping, then that's a different issue. It's a projection TV with a fixed pixel source -- to be able to adjust overscan, wouldn't it need to have a zoom lens (like many common front projectors)? I haven't heard of an RPTV with a user-adjustable zoom lens but maybe there's some lens adjustment a technician or calibrator could do inside the TV.

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD? NO, THERE'S NOT!!!

NOTHER QUESTION...WHY DON'T YOU TRY READING THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS YOU'VE ALREADY ASKED A DOZEN TIMES?

NOTHER QUESTION...EVER TRY READING?

NOTHER QUESTION...CAN YOU READ?

RANT OFF.....:D
Being the helpful soul that I am, I will answer your questions.
1. I get mixed results with no clear answer, people confuse me with all this 60hz, etc. I'm a newbie to this and I have no idea what they are talking about (but thanks for the long reply anyway).

2. The answer to your second question is: Read answer above.

3. Yes I have completed "grammar 15" in college and have a literature B.A.

4. I will give you a simple straight to the point answer: :) yes.

Now I have some questions for you:

1. Ever tried going through an anger management course? Have you atleast mastered Anger 101?

Ha! "Grammer"

That's kind of funny.

Chuck in LV Anyone know what stand this is?

Here's a link to Samsung Site for Stands just in case I am mistaken:

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fTV%2fArchived+Accessories

I believe that is the stand that the Prototypes were displayed on for CES 2005 in Vegas. Since that time they have switched the stands that are being sold with the Samsung 1080P's and are using a stand that has one shelf instead of two and this creates confusion because when people see the photo's they expect to buy the two shelf stand it was modeled on before the Manuals came out.

The Spec sheet at Samsung Website should show you the actual stand - plus TVA has the stands also. I required a two shelf stand and I personally thought it looked to cheap anyways so I upgraded to a Bello 2663 Stand but it costs about 3 times the money. Many newcomers will get confused as they'll see the old photo's and then try and find those stands. Good Luck! Oh - TVA has the actual Stands on the PB area within their website. :D

Ha! "Grammer"

That's kind of funny.

:D

Hi, my first post here. I joined for the powerbuy and got my 6168 and samsung 950 dvd player last week. I've saw one movie and wasn't impressed until I realized that you had to set the dvd player up from 420 resolution to either 720p or 1080i. Which is better to use? the 720p or 1080i??

Also, I attempted to set up the television settings using the avia disk, but it isn't really working because, for instance, no matter how high I set the brightness, or how sharp i set it or the other way around, the lines or white boxes or whatever don't really change much in appearance or blur or etc etc.. If you used the disk before you know what I'm saying. I used the disk on my Sony Wega and I was able to use it fine. Is it because the tv is so powerful and crisp that no matter what the setting, it can produce? Man, I do'nt know what the hell im talking about i think but someone please help me.

what settings for color, sharpness, etc etc are you guys using for your tv and dvd?? any help appreaciated. thank you in advance.

this stand for the HL-R5668W seems to be less then 20" tall, I need 17.5"

I've been to all of the Samsung locations and can't find it.

Also I've seen a Samsung TR56 thats 17.5" but can't find reference to it.

I'm just looking for a stand that is for the corner and ir the width of the 5668 at 17.5"


Any Ideas

Hi, my first post here. I joined for the powerbuy and got my 6168 and samsung 950 dvd player last week. I've saw one movie and wasn't impressed until I realized that you had to set the dvd player up from 420 resolution to either 720p or 1080i. Which is better to use? the 720p or 1080i??

Also, I attempted to set up the television settings using the avia disk, but it isn't really working because, for instance, no matter how high I set the brightness, or how sharp i set it or the other way around, the lines or white boxes or whatever don't really change much in appearance or blur or etc etc.. If you used the disk before you know what I'm saying. I used the disk on my Sony Wega and I was able to use it fine. Is it because the tv is so powerful and crisp that no matter what the setting, it can produce? Man, I do'nt know what the hell im talking about i think but someone please help me.

what settings for color, sharpness, etc etc are you guys using for your tv and dvd?? any help appreaciated. thank you in advance.
I don't know the level of your expertise so I included the basics too.
I think you mean 480 instead of 420 resolution. I'll make my response short and quick. I would output 1080i because the 6168 upconverts everything to 1080P automatically. Also, make sure that you have the DVD player hooked up to the 6168 via HDMI if not, COMPONENT (not composite). You can also have the player output 480i or 480p and have the 6168 upscale the video instead of the DVD player upscaling it (compare which is a better upscaler, the 6168 or the DVD player). I have never used a HT setup disc, I think its not working because it's ment for 720P tv's not 1080P. Plus, the 6168 has a VERY high contrast ratio too (a good thing).

Tell me more about your setup, CHEERS!

Being the helpful soul that I am, I will answer your questions.
1. I get mixed results with no clear answer, people confuse me with all this 60hz, etc. I'm a newbie to this and I have no idea what they are talking about (but thanks for the long reply anyway).

2. The answer to your second question is: Read answer above.

3. Yes I have completed "grammar 15" in college and have a literature B.A.

4. I will give you a simple straight to the point answer: :) yes.

Now I have some questions for you:

1. Ever tried going through an anger management course? Have you atleast mastered Anger 101?


Dear sir:

Thank you for your courteous response to my inquiries...

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that indeed you CAN read...Many of us here have spent hours and yet more hours reading this thread, and it can frustrate us to no end indeed when some some of the same gentlemen seem to repeat the same questions over and over again, with no apparent notice of the all too apparent fact that the question has, in fact, already been answered, in some instances on multiple occasions.

Having been a "newbie" myself, and still being one to some degree, I can certainly sympathize with your situation, and have frequently availed myself of the opportunity to ask the patient, knowledgeable, and understanding folks who frequent these forums some rather, in the words of Mr Orrin Hatch, "Dumb-Ass Questions."

Truth be told--and what a rarity that can be, as I'm sure you are aware!- your repeated questions caught me at a time when I was just hoping to get through this thread so that I could return to more important, though certainly less interesting, matters, so if my tone was a little, shall we say, "harsh", I extend my humble and sincere apologies.

In fact, if I may take this opportunity to mention to all who care to listen, your "transgressions", such as they were, are in fact minor compared, again in my yet-to-be-humble-opinion, to those of the "video-lag-thread crappers"-please forgive my language, sir-, who don't seem to understand the concept, once they have been informed in so many ways and on oh, so many occasions, that it is

a) a minor problem or

b)source dependent and out of the control of Samsung or any other TV manufacturer and that

c) there are cheap and simple workarounds or that

d) they can return the set if they don't like it and mainly

e) NO AMOUNT OF BADGERING IS GONNA CHANGE THE STINKIN FACT THAT WHAT IS, IS, SO JUST BUY THE STINKIN SET AND TAKE IT BACK IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT!!!!!!

......Where did you say you can find those anger management classes?.....

................................................:D.......... .................................................

After waiting 5 weeks, on Aug 4th my new HLR-6168W arrived and was setup by the delivery company (white-glove).

I spend the first two hours letting the set come down to room temperature before turning it on.

The first thing I noticed was the picture quality over HDMI from the PVR SA8300 was very blotchy and showed signs of strong pixelization on black areas, blue sky, white clouds and smoke. There were even signs of jagged lines on HD channels. Also, as the scenes would change from one to another the image would completely pixelize. The INFO key tells me the channels are 1920x1080i on most and 1280x720p on others. I have tried adjusting picture setting...but no change.

I then tried OTA HDTV channels using the internal HDTV tuner, same issues.

Next, I tried DVD movies over component from a Sony DVD player…although the images were better…it still lacked depth and was not very sharp.

Now for the lip-synch issues…the 6168 (internal speakers) has them on several HDTV channels using the HDMI input with the 8300….mostly on the HDDiscovery and HDPBS. They also exists over the component input with the DVD movies. The delay is very long….from ½ to 1 full second.

None of these issues existed on the Sony LCD Front Projector or Sharp 32” LCD flat panel display I had before…it seems to be only an issue with the Samsung.

I have requested a replacement 6168W be sent to me ASAP….but I’m worried that the 2nd unit might have the same issues.

Can any of you tell me if you see any of these conditions on your 6168W?

Thanks,

UPDATE 8/20/05: New replacement 6168W arrived from TVAuthority....this unit is MUCH MUCH better.....although I can still see some digital artifacts....I now believe these are from the PVR 8300 TWC. The DVD images look great! So...now I'm a happy camper.

^ouch. I hope this isn't usual with these new 1080p sets.

pwl

Others have reported the same in the last 5 pages of this thread.

Evidently, there is a pattern to this problem.

Received my HLR6168W a few weeks ago from TVA and am ready to make a initial impression report in comparison with my old HLN617W.

...snip....


Thanks for the review. It seems that maybe the difference in 60" sets and smaller doesn't really benefit very much by the 1080p system vs. the 720p system.

Although I'm a bit disappointed (was hoping for a major improvement), its good to know. Not very often does someone have both sets at the same time where they can make a direct comparison and photograph them.

Dear sir:

Thank you for your courteous response to my inquiries...

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that indeed you CAN read...Many of us here have spent hours and yet more hours reading this thread, and it can frustrate us to no end indeed when some some of the same gentlemen seem to repeat the same questions over and over again, with no apparent notice of the all too apparent fact that the question has, in fact, already been answered, in some instances on multiple occasions.

Having been a "newbie" myself, and still being one to some degree, I can certainly sympathize with your situation, and have frequently availed myself of the opportunity to ask the patient, knowledgeable, and understanding folks who frequent these forums some rather, in the words of Mr Orrin Hatch, "Dumb-Ass Questions."

Truth be told--and what a rarity that can be, as I'm sure you are aware!- your repeated questions caught me at a time when I was just hoping to get through this thread so that I could return to more important, though certainly less interesting, matters, so if my tone was a little, shall we say, "harsh", I extend my humble and sincere apologies.

In fact, if I may take this opportunity to mention to all who care to listen, your "transgressions", such as they were, are in fact minor compared, again in my yet-to-be-humble-opinion, to those of the "video-lag-thread crappers"-please forgive my language, sir-, who don't seem to understand the concept, once they have been informed in so many ways and on oh, so many occasions, that it is

a) a minor problem or

b)source dependent and out of the control of Samsung or any other TV manufacturer and that

c) there are cheap and simple workarounds or that

d) they can return the set if they don't like it and mainly

e) NO AMOUNT OF BADGERING IS GONNA CHANGE THE STINKIN FACT THAT WHAT IS, IS, SO JUST BUY THE STINKIN SET AND TAKE IT BACK IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT!!!!!!

......Where did you say you can find those anger management classes?.....

................................................:D.......... .................................................
Dear Madam (counldnt resist, I dont mean it),
I too agree completely and entirely that the "video lag posters" are bloody fools trying to darken the bright side of these new 1080P sets. I too, like you, are a simple reader trying to find useful and helpful information, but simply cannot find it due to neglect "video lag crappers". That is the sole reason why I repeat my question. Because no one wishes to answer them, specifically the ones envolving viewing distance, I wished for multiple opinions but I got one, I asked again, got one, etc. That is the reason I asked repetitive questions. The question envolving 1x1 pixel mapping I have never got an answer to. The question about macroblocking, I only got one answer, which was not clear. I hope we agree with each other, and start off knowing that both of us are here for the same thing.
-Me

Thanks for the review. It seems that maybe the difference in 60" sets and smaller doesn't really benefit very much by the 1080p system vs. the 720p system.

Although I'm a bit disappointed (was hoping for a major improvement), its good to know. Not very often does someone have both sets at the same time where they can make a direct comparison and photograph them.

I'm in the same boat. I will be sitting 8 to 11 feet away from my new DLP Tv and I can't decide on a 5067 or 5078. First things first, I need to see one in the stores. I've only seen the 1080p Sonys and I didn't think they were worth the extra cash. Especially since TVA is offereing the 5067 at a dirt cheap price now.

Yes, I have read them...but I have also seen people say that the images are the "best they have ever seen"....and some even describe the picture as "pristine".......so far my 6168W is the worst HDTV I have owned.

[Rant on] :(
I have never seen anyone set their delay higher than 130 ms and many can set at less than 100. For those not doing the math thats less than a 10th of a second. You gotta get something else to do with your life to let that make or break your day (gamers excepted). Now we are in hair splitting areas. I guess thats fine for the AVS forum (maybe the high end group) but seems to be a little over the top for anyone considering a Samsung TV.

Whoa! I resemble that remark. I'm not a gamer and definitely found the video delay a deal breaker on music DVD's. I bought the Yamaha 5840 and set the audio delay at 70ms which makes everything perfect. Now you hear the cymbals when they're struck - not an irritating split second before. The good points on the 5840 are a) audio delay and b) you can buy it under $250. Downside: a) audio delay is global: one delay for every source (this isn't really all that bad since the echo effect actually makes some movies better, and you can always choose not to use the AVR for the TV) and b) my universal remote (Cox) cannot find it.

RMSko, I tried setting the brightness on the 950 to 5 and then checked the “Reverse gray ramps and steps” on DVE. With the the 950 brightness set to 5 the white bars were washed out and could not be adjusted in. I reset the 950 brightness to 1 and all the white bars are visible but the last two black bars are not discernable. The 950 is connected to the 6168 through HDMI.
I assume you also tried all the settings between 1 & 5 and also did not get satisfactory results. Did you also do the test with the 3 black bars to the left and right of the pluge (actually you'll only see three bars if the DVD player passes BTB)?

...
a) a minor problem or

b)source dependent and out of the control of Samsung or any other TV manufacturer and that

c) there are cheap and simple workarounds or that

d) they can return the set if they don't like it and mainly

e) NO AMOUNT OF BADGERING IS GONNA CHANGE THE STINKIN FACT THAT WHAT IS, IS, SO JUST BUY THE STINKIN SET AND TAKE IT BACK IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT!!!!!!

................................................:D.......... .................................................
I think if you turned these into a poll you would get a pretty even distribution from the readers on this thread ;)

Whoa! I resemble that remark. I'm not a gamer and definitely found the video delay a deal breaker on music DVD's. I bought the Yamaha 5840 and set the audio delay at 70ms which makes everything perfect. Now you hear the cymbals when they're struck - not an irritating split second before. The good points on the 5840 are a) audio delay and b) you can buy it under $250. Downside: a) audio delay is global: one delay for every source (this isn't really all that bad since the echo effect actually makes some movies better, and you can always choose not to use the AVR for the TV) and b) my universal remote (Cox) cannot find it.
The way I see it now is that I must have a 100 ms delay built into my brain. :D Somehow this stuff just does not surface in my setup other than when two audio paths diverge from the same source, I can hear the difference.

Just like many eye issues, part of sight is in the brain. In my case old age must be slowing my processors just enough. :confused:

The way I see it now is that I must have a 100 ms delay built into my brain. :D Somehow this stuff just does not surface in my setup other than when two audio paths diverge from the same source, I can hear the difference.

Just like many eye issues, part of sight is in the brain. In my case old age must be slowing my processors just enough. :confused:

I cannot find any lag when using a DVD player but I do see lag on some of
the HD channels from time to time but there is no constant setting that
would eliminate the lag on every channel all of the time. This is what leads
me to believe the most of the problem I am experiencing anyway is due to
DishNetwork and not Samsung.

For the case of de-interlacing most scalers quote a 4 frame lag which
on our Samsung 1080p DLPs would be 64ms - I am not sure if I could
notice this but some of the channels some of the time greatly exceed
this value.

I think if you turned these into a poll you would get a pretty even distribution from the readers on this thread ;)

Well, a and b maybe....:)

Just an FYI from a customer still awaiting my 6768 regarding HD Lag.

Some of the HD Channels have alot of lag today, especially CBS HD. Just so we don't get every new owner thinking it's their TV. I'm getting mine on my Sharp Aqous today - really bad on CBS. It may not be your set - this occurs every couple of weeks it seems. :D

Thanks F. Yu.

Most HD channels look only slightly better from my JVC D-ILA ( except of course
the BL and CR are much better ).

But Discovery HD, HD Net, Equator, look incredibly better. I was wondering
have you viewed the content on these channels and compared your old
set verssus new set?

Unfortunately, Adelphia Cable is not only bankrupt and sold, it is dog-slow (no offense to any canine readers of this board, of course) at adding high def channels; we get only local channels, PBS, ESPN (which you have to pay for separately), and any movie channels you already subscribe to. PBS is probably the most pristine out of those, and looks stunningly perfect on both the HLN617W and the HLR6168W.

Contrast/black levels are not noticably better, but I need to watch more movies to decide.


??? You can't see the difference in the blacks of the hair???

Samsung service was out to look at my new HL-R5668W last week to try to fix a "white dot" problem that my set has. He was great and just needed to order some parts to repair the set. Well he just called and said that the parts are not available and as a result he is recommending a new set. This will be my fourth DLP replacement in under a year, each with very different problems, and is a real bummer. I was really hoping he could just fix the set and not give a replacement b/c every time I get a new TV I have to deal with Repair Master to change the warranty information, which is a real pain. I've called Samsung to see if anything can be done re the parts, but it is unlikely. UGH!!!

Samsung service was out to look at my new HL-R5668W last week to try to fix a "white dot" problem that my set has. He was great and just needed to order some parts to repair the set. Well he just called and said that the parts are not available and as a result he is recommending a new set. This will be my fourth DLP replacement in under a year, each with very different problems, and is a real bummer. I was really hoping he could just fix the set and not give a replacement b/c every time I get a new TV I have to deal with Repair Master to change the warranty information, which is a real pain. I've called Samsung to see if anything can be done re the parts, but it is unlikely. UGH!!!

Wow, 4th set in a year?! Talk about bad luck.........

I assume you also tried all the settings between 1 & 5 and also did not get satisfactory results. Did you also do the test with the 3 black bars to the left and right of the pluge (actually you'll only see three bars if the DVD player passes BTB)?

RMSko, I did try all the settings between 1 and 5. The “DVE PLUNGE w/gray scale” test pattern is unusable with the 950 except at 480i. Using this test pattern at 1080i over HDMI, only the +4% vertical bars are visible regardless of brightness and contrast adjustments. That is the reason I am using the “Reverse Gray Ramps and Steps” test pattern.
Setting the 950’s brightness to 5 makes the +4% bar more visible on the plunge pattern but at the sacrifice of the white bars on the “Reverse Gray Ramps and Steps” test pattern. Setting the brightness to 5 also does little or nothing to improve the resolution of the black bars. The “Reverse Gray Ramps and Steps” test pattern has 22 steps from 5% below black to 5% above white, which allows you to see the entire gray scale.
If you have any more questions about the 950 I’ll monitor the “Samsung HD 950 DVD player any info ?” thread.

These are my latest settings:
HD950
Sharpness 1
Brightness 2
Color 2

HLR6168
Movie
Contrast 90
Brightness 65
Sharpness 0
Color 55

Ok, after obsessing over this forum and reading every post to date, I am concerned about quality control issues with the new 1080 sets. While I realize most happy new owners never post here, there are enough horror stories to make me think twice before I preorder mine! What are the actual statistics of failed sets? Some can surely be linked to the shipping process. But others, like bad ballasts, and splotchy images are cause for concern. Let's hear the facts from TVA as they would know the percentage of problem sets and returns.

The other issue is audio sync. By now this should be a NON ISSUE! It's a fact of life. INSERT AUDIO PATH DELAY HERE. Get over it!

Hal in Houston
watching 13" tube set!

Ok, after obsessing over this forum and reading every post to date, I am concerned about quality control issues with the new 1080 sets. While I realize most happy new owners never post here, there are enough horror stories to make me think twice before I preorder mine! What are the actual statistics of failed sets? Some can surely be linked to the shipping process. But others, like bad ballasts, and splotchy images are cause for concern. Let's hear the facts from TVA as they would know the percentage of problem sets and returns.

The other issue is audio sync. By now this should be a NON ISSUE! It's a fact of life. INSERT AUDIO PATH DELAY HERE. Get over it!

Hal in Houston
watching 13" tube set!

I'd suggest to buy locally with a refund policy when it comes to DLP,
its not just quality control risks, but also someone watching may suffer headaches or see rainbows.

When you get one that works, nothing better,
but nothing worse having problems with something that big.

Extended warranty good idea as well with all the moving parts and heat in the units.