[I]ccouper wrote:

After almost 30 years in television I can tell you that lip sync is a slippery issue. I have to deal with it all day, every day. The number of places where video and audio travel different paths that they are two numerous to mention.

Jim


Thank you for putting this in perspective and verifying what I have been trying to say. Except for the Samsung HLP models, I have never heard of sound sync issues WITHIN a display nor have I ever seen it. I have seen sync problems with virtually every OTA source at one time or another with CRT sets, RPTVs, Plasmas. It is a source issue. It is a path delay issue. I was disappointed that the ATSC standard did not have a sync code or time code added to the digital streams. This is a very common technique in data systems as there may be dozens of streams, each with totaly different processing, that need to eventually synced to make a usuable data product.

Lee

??? You can't see the difference in the blacks of the hair???
I'm not sure what you're referring to here; do you mean in general, or do you mean specifically in the photos I took comparing that scene in AOTC? If the latter, some of the difference may be due to different settings as I have not completely finished tweaking the new set, and also to slightly different lighting conditions (although the photograph was taken at almost the same time of day, it was a different day so ambient lighting may have been somewhat different).

I'm hoping that the lack of difference in apparent resolution may just be limitations of source material; since I have a Moxi HD-PVR, it does compress all of the signals as they are recorded to the hard drive so perhaps that is impacting PQ beyond what a 1080p light engine can show. Once HD-DVD/Blue-Ray/XBOX360 comes out later this year or 2006, I'll know for sure.

Hmm... actually, now that I go back and look again at the gallery photos, perhaps you are right, there are fewer "gray blockies" in Jango's hair in the 6168W photo. I will go back to the original 5MP photos and take another look later.

RMSko and Rob: there does seem to be a quality control issue, thus far, with the new Samsung sets. I know that I will get flamed, but the number of sets that TVA has shipped is in the low hundreds. The number of TVA buyers complaining about problems "seems to be" somewhere in the 5-10% range. But, TVA appears to have WONDERFUL customer service!!!!!

I asked the question, a week or so ago, what is the "normal" failure rate for new DLP TVs? No one answered! The data may not be available to the public. But, if my 5-10% estimate is anywhere near accurate, I suspect that there is a profound problem.

The first thing I noticed was the picture quality over HDMI from the PVR SA8300 was very blotchy and showed signs of strong pixelization on black areas, blue sky, white clouds and smoke. There were even signs of jagged lines on HD channels. Also, as the scenes would change from one to another the image would completely pixelize. The INFO key tells me the channels are 1920x1080i on most and 1280x720p on others. I have tried adjusting picture setting...but no change.

I then tried OTA HDTV channels using the internal HDTV tuner, same issues.

Next, I tried DVD movies over component from a Sony DVD player…although the images were better…it still lacked depth and was not very sharp.

Now for the lip-synch issues…the 6168 (internal speakers) has them on several HDTV channels using the HDMI input with the 8300….mostly on the HDDiscovery and HDPBS. They also exists over the component input with the DVD movies. The delay is very long….from ½ to 1 full second.

Can any of you tell me if you see any of these conditions on your 6168W?

Thanks,

PWL... I also have the SA 8300 and have noticed similar problems with PQ and Lip Sync. But I believe everything I've seen related to this so far has been a source issue. I occasionally see HD (and SD) sync issues with the internal speakers, but they are sporatic and I have verified a couple of times that they existed on my CRT as well. Regarding PQ, sometimes the picture on an HD channel looks like crap, but most of the time, it looks absolutely gorgeous! A couple of shows I've caught on Discovery and the other independent HD channels have been so crazy-good that I can't beleive my eyes. This makes me think (and I'm by-no-means an expert here) that the 6168 is doing it's thing very well and that when I do experience sub-par PQ, it is most likely source related.

Related to DVD, I have the SS 950 and when I'm watching a *quality* DVD like the Incredibles, the 5th Element or North by Northwest (watched it last night - WOW! :D ), I can't believe my eyes! Looks like what I would expect HD DVD's to look like soon.

Hope this helps. Bill

Just an FYI from a customer still awaiting my 6768 regarding HD Lag.

Some of the HD Channels have alot of lag today, especially CBS HD. Just so we don't get every new owner thinking it's their TV. I'm getting mine on my Sharp Aqous today - really bad on CBS. It may not be your set - this occurs every couple of weeks it seems. :D

I agree with you. I have the same problems from time to time on all my Six tv's. They are all different makes and models, from LCD, to Plasma's. Also My Sharp Aquos has this lag to, but not often. I believe it is the signal and not the TV's.

OK, I finally got to see a 1080p set in action, unfortunately it was at a BB/Magnolia and didn't have time to check out the signal source. The tag on the set with some specs read, 5000:1 contrast ratio (HL-R6168). Where did the other 5000 go to? Is it source related?
I am expecting delivery of my 5668 early next week and can't wait to see what this bad boy can really do.

RMSko and Rob: there does seem to be a quality control issue, thus far, with the new Samsung sets. I know that I will get flamed, but the number of sets that TVA has shipped is in the low hundreds. The number of TVA buyers complaining about problems "seems to be" somewhere in the 5-10% range. But, TVA appears to have WONDERFUL customer service!!!!!

I asked the question, a week or so ago, what is the "normal" failure rate for new DLP TVs? No one answered! The data may not be available to the public. But, if my 5-10% estimate is anywhere near accurate, I suspect that there is a profound problem.

5-10% is high if only a few hundred sets have sold at TVA, Ouch, this might be a total problem that Sammy needs to fix ASAP. This sucks because I have already ordered mine. I dont think that this is "normal" failure rate. This is sad if they say this.

OK, I finally got to see a 1080p set in action, unfortunately it was at a BB/Magnolia and didn't have time to check out the signal source. The tag on the set with some specs read, 5000:1 contrast ratio (HL-R6168). Where did the other 5000 go to? Is it source related?
I am expecting delivery of my 5668 early next week and can't wait to see what this bad boy can really do.

no matter who you deal with these sets either show 10,000:1 or 5,000:1, for the exact same model. I cant believe that. So no one really knows exactly the number.
5,000:1 and 10,000:1 is a huge difference. Does anyone know the exact number for the models 68 and 78 series?

What really bugs me about these sets, 68 and 78 series, is that they are limited on rear inputs. They only have two HDMI's, Two Components, and no DVI input, that sucks. I cant even hook up my PS2 now, because I dont have enough inputs. Sony TV's have 6 Video inputs and then some, ie DVI.

If in doubt on Specifications trust the Samsung Spec Sheet not BB or any other vendor - they are box movers they don't build anything and it isn't unusual for BB to create placards with incorrect info. The Samsung Spec Sheet is what you believe not the Vendor selling the TV. It is in fact UP TO 10K:1 CR. Also, UCSB has the spec's and a number of on-line dealers have incorrectly identified CR. The Samsung Spec Sheet will be the correct one not the folks selling the TV regardless of who it is. :D

What really bugs me about these sets, 68 and 78 series, is that they are limited on rear inputs. They only have two HDMI's, Two Components, and no DVI input, that sucks. I cant even hook up my PS2 now, because I dont have enough inputs. Sony TV's have 6 Video inputs and then some, ie DVI.

What exactly are you hooking up to your tv?

I'll be fine with 2 HDMI (Comcast STB and DVD player) and my PS2 (PS3 next year) will goto the Component. My PS3 may even replace my DVD player.

I dont think that this is "normal" failure rate. This is sad if they say this.
If "who" says "what"?

I've never found any information about failure rates for any TV. I would like to, but I don't expect to -- ever. :rolleyes:

The only information that TVA would have would be the number of exchanges they have done. There is no reason for TVA to be involved in a repair after the first thirty days. During the first thirty days TVA would be involved only if the customer requests an exchange.

Some of the TVA exchanges have been for shipping damage. TVA also allows exchanges for dissatisfaction so how do you identify the sets that "failed". I'd be surprised if they divulge even that much.

My solution to the "failure rate" blackout was to buy locally from a dealer with a good service record. I also bought their service contract which is one where they do all the repair work themselves. So far -- so good. :cool:

Taken from F. Yu's posting of the two images off his Samsung 6168 and the older 617.... just to compare picture
http://www.chrisaustin.us/temp/Sammys.jpg

no matter who you deal with these sets either show 10,000:1 or 5,000:1, for the exact same model. I cant believe that. So no one really knows exactly the number.
5,000:1 and 10,000:1 is a huge difference. Does anyone know the exact number for the models 68 and 78 series?

It has a dynamic iris so I don't belive there is a set number you can quote
for all material and lighting conditions. The panel contrast of the TI chip
is 5000 to 1 and this can be improved "upto" 10,000 to 1 under optimal
conditons and content with the dynamic iris.

Thinking about getting the 6168... is there a particular DVD movie, or HD show that I could record on my HD Tivo, where the rainbow effect is easily seen, if the TV has that problem? Or should I say, what scene from what show/movie did you see the rainbow effect at its worst? If I can play that part before purchasing the TV, and it looks acceptable to me, then I'll be happy with it.

StallionReWhat really bugs me about these sets, 68 and 78 series, is that they are limited on rear inputs. They only have two HDMI's, Two Components, and no DVI input, that sucks. I cant even hook up my PS2 now, because I dont have enough inputs. Sony TV's have 6 Video inputs and then some, ie DVI.

Could you identify an HDTV that has more than 2 HDMI? I'm don't recall seeing anyone with more than 2. I'm trying to understand why you wouldn't have sufficient connections for PS2? Since the PS2 is not HD platform why can't you use S-Video? It is sitting on the back panel available for use on page 25 of the Manual. I'm confused as to how you arrive at more than 4 devices that require HD interfacing as the Audio is Optical out in a separate area. This is the first instance I recall anyone saying they could not hook up PS2 or other Gaming System - a PS2 doesn't really need a component cable as it's low end graphically and if you go PS3 that'll be Blu-Ray and replace the DVD Player also - thus giving you two devices sharing of one cable. You may want to go Samsung Website and look at the Manual. Good Luck!:confused:

ucsbgaucho Rainbow effect... what movie to test with?

I've heard people using Dark City, 5th Element, LOTR or AMC Movie Classics where Black and White transitions may show it.

What I find most interesting about the 1080P's received and reported to-date and is getting lost in other issues is the absence of RBE being reported. I have been copying and pasting over the past month and have about 30 reviews and I only recall one person mentioning RBE and it was barely noticeable.

I find it interesting with all the chatter about AV Sync and lag I've yet to see any reporting of RBE from any of the comments coming in. That is tremendous news that's gone unnoticed for the most part. This is a truly positive improvement from the past with these DLP's. Just wanted to throw that in.

FWIW,I see rainbows when I turn my head.
I have not seen any while just watching the TV, with no head movement.

RMSko and Rob: there does seem to be a quality control issue, thus far, with the new Samsung sets. I know that I will get flamed, but the number of sets that TVA has shipped is in the low hundreds. The number of TVA buyers complaining about problems "seems to be" somewhere in the 5-10% range. But, TVA appears to have WONDERFUL customer service!!!!!

I asked the question, a week or so ago, what is the "normal" failure rate for new DLP TVs? No one answered! The data may not be available to the public. But, if my 5-10% estimate is anywhere near accurate, I suspect that there is a profound problem.


Ummm,

I'm one of the people with a set that has an issue. Other than me, I've counted about 3 or 4 people (RMSoko, FLAPilot, JohnJonesCA, Ed Weinman, not sure about others) who have anything that could be described of as a defect, and one of them specifically knows that their set was mishandled . Based on that, and the fact that TVA has shipped over 200 of these gives me a rate of 2% (4/200 if I don't count one that was definitely mishandled).

5-10% is multiplicatively higher than 2%, and I suspect that if any of these sets were mishandled in delivery that that rate would be much lower if we are talking solely about manufacturing defects.

And you can bet your life that if anyone has had a problem that they've posted it here.

That being said, I am PISSED that I have a defective set, because it is a waste of my time to have to make these phone calls, etc., when the thing should have worked 100% right out of the box. The good news is that I bought from TVA, so I don't have to worry too much about getting a new set.

If in doubt on Specifications trust the Samsung Spec Sheet not BB or any other vendor - they are box movers they don't build anything and it isn't unusual for BB to create placards with incorrect info. The Samsung Spec Sheet is what you believe not the Vendor selling the TV. It is in fact UP TO 10K:1 CR. Also, UCSB has the spec's and a number of on-line dealers have incorrectly identified CR. The Samsung Spec Sheet will be the correct one not the folks selling the TV regardless of who it is. :D

Thanks. You are right. I like the Samsung spec sheet, they are right. It seems to me that the other dealers are wrong. Something so simple and they cant get that right. Thats makes them look bad. Why cant the other dealers, sellers get it right? It is not hard at all to take the Samsung spec sheet and post it on their web site.

Does the Samsung upscale/upconvert through the VGA port? I assume it does not, or else you would never be able to select a resolution, but I didn't know for sure.

Ummm,

I'm one of the people with a set that has an issue. Other than me, I've counted about 3 or 4 people (RMSoko, FLAPilot, JohnJonesCA, Ed Weinman, not sure about others) who have anything that could be described of as a defect, and one of them specifically knows that their set was mishandled . Based on that, and the fact that TVA has shipped over 200 of these gives me a rate of 2% (4/200 if I don't count one that was definitely mishandled).

5-10% is multiplicatively higher than 2%, and I suspect that if any of these sets were mishandled in delivery that that rate would be much lower if we are talking solely about manufacturing defects.

And you can bet your life that if anyone has had a problem that they've posted it here.

these problems are from people on this forum to post it. What about the other people who are not even on a forum at all that have a broken set?? I bet many!!! Most people read the forums, but will not register to write anything.

wmwrose

I have had my 6168 for about 1 week. I have no lip sync problem with any channel. However, I have the picture hooked via an DVI/HDMI cable and the sound hooked from the television via an optical cable to the AVR. The reason I did it that way was to avoid any possible lip sync problems. So far the sound is good and I "think" I am getting DD 5.1. At least, it sounds like DD 5.1 on certain movies I watch. I also have my Denon 2910 hooked straight into the television via an HDMI cable and have had no problems on that front. Hope this helps you.

Does the Samsung upscale/upconvert through the VGA port? I assume it does not, or else you would never be able to select a resolution, but I didn't know for sure.

No I dont think it does. Otherwise it can be adjusted for resolution.

these problems are from people on this forum to post it. What about the other people who are not even on a forum at all that have a broken set?? I bet many!!! Most people read the forums, but will not register to write anything.

Then they don't count as part of the 200 people, because if they aren't registered, they're not in the PowerBuy. I am operating under the assumption that if people have bought through TVA and are part of the roughly 200 sets shipped, they have bought through the PowerBuy, and therefore they *MUST* be registered on the forum since you cannot participate in the PowerBuy unless you are registered here at AVS.

As for other, seperate samples, none of us have any idea, so the best data we can go with are from TVA's shipments and posters here with problems.

When will the 68s and 78s make their way to the "Best Buys" of the world?

Taken from F. Yu's posting of the two images off his Samsung 6168 and the older 617.... just to compare picture
http://www.chrisaustin.us/temp/Sammys.jpg

Their is a hugh difference here. Look at the face of the two men. They are much clearer in detail in the 6168 model vs the 617 model. It is a sharper picture in the 6168 model. It also depends what you are watching and how far back you are away the TV and the light in the room.

When will the 68s and 78s make their way to the "Best Buys" of the world?
Usually after 6 months of being on the market, or they sell out of their older models. I was a manager at Best Buy and that is how we work.

Does anyone have a problem with a tilted picture like I do. It is off by 1/4 inch between the left and right side. You can see it clearly in my photo gallery with HDNet test pattern 3. Look at the number 4 on the bottom of each side.
I'm still flip flopping whether this a reason for an exchange and risking something else being wrong. I'm just wondering how other sets measure up. Is there any tilt in the pictures of other owners?

Then they don't count as part of the 200 people, because if they aren't registered, they're not in the PowerBuy. I am operating under the assumption that if people have bought through TVA and are part of the roughly 200 sets shipped, they have bought through the PowerBuy, and therefore they *MUST* be registered on the forum since you cannot participate in the PowerBuy unless you are registered here at AVS.

As for other, seperate samples, none of us have any idea, so the best data we can go with are from TVA's shipments and posters here with problems.

You are right about that, but I would like to hear some positive stuff about these TV's too, since like everyone here has spent their hard earned money on getting this TV. No matter what model they bought. I bet overall, these are good sets. Just like anything on the market that is brand new, a first time run, has problems.

Does anyone have a problem with a tilted picture like I do. It is off by 1/4 inch between the left and right side. You can see it clearly in my photo gallery with HDNet test pattern 3. Look at the number 4 on the bottom of each side.
I'm still flip flopping whether this a reason for an exchange and risking something else being wrong. I'm just wondering how other sets measure up. Is there any tilt in the pictures of other owners?
You should never have this problem. Something to me is wrong with your set, I think. I dont think that there is an adjustment in the Menu for this.

wmwrose

I have had my 6168 for about 1 week. I have no lip sync problem with any channel. However, I have the picture hooked via an DVI/HDMI cable and the sound hooked from the television via an optical cable to the AVR. The reason I did it that way was to avoid any possible lip sync problems. So far the sound is good and I "think" I am getting DD 5.1. At least, it sounds like DD 5.1 on certain movies I watch. I also have my Denon 2910 hooked straight into the television via an HDMI cable and have had no problems on that front. Hope this helps you.


This doesn't sound right. All other reports have stated that if you connect the dvd to the tv via hdmi, and then the digital audio out of the tv to the avr, that you will NOT have 5.1 sound coming from the avr. Anybody else?

wmrose, wouldn't your receiver show on the front panel whether its producing 5.1 audio or just 2-channel? Usually there's some sort of indicator of which speakers are being used on any given input/channel... My sony does this, so check to make sure its really 5.1 and not just simulated Dolby Surround

Does anyone have a problem with a tilted picture like I do. It is off by 1/4 inch between the left and right side. You can see it clearly in my photo gallery with HDNet test pattern 3. Look at the number 4 on the bottom of each side.
I'm still flip flopping whether this a reason for an exchange and risking something else being wrong. I'm just wondering how other sets measure up. Is there any tilt in the pictures of other owners?

If this is something that you notice outside of a test pattern, I would have samsung come take a look at it. It is unlikely the type of issue that would need a replacement part, and might only need some adjustment inside the set. In that case, it's probably easier than having a whole replacement set sent out. I would not be surprised if this sort of problem is evident throughout the RP world. A small jostle during shipment could probably knock these light engines out of alignment easily.

Clorox: I think that if you go through the entire thread, you'll get closer to 10 than 4 people that have had some sort of problems.

But, I admire TVA for their customer service!!! No doubt that they are 1st class.

I would also say that replacing 4 DLP TVs, by the same individual, is not just "bad" luck. I would state that it is STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT!

This doesn't sound right. All other reports have stated that if you connect the dvd to the tv via hdmi, and then the digital audio out of the tv to the avr, that you will NOT have 5.1 sound coming from the avr. Anybody else?

I think it has been confirmed as a fact that no manufacturer's sets currently pass a 5.1 input as 5.1 from their digital outs.

Then they don't count as part of the 200 people, because if they aren't registered, they're not in the PowerBuy. I am operating under the assumption that if people have bought through TVA and are part of the roughly 200 sets shipped, they have bought through the PowerBuy, and therefore they *MUST* be registered on the forum since you cannot participate in the PowerBuy unless you are registered here at AVS.

As for other, seperate samples, none of us have any idea, so the best data we can go with are from TVA's shipments and posters here with problems.

I assume that many people have signed up for the forum but never posted and are still in on the power buy. This can be confirmed by a number of posts that state that they just got their set or just saw a problem and their total posts is 1! It would also be logical that, assuming that the majority of owners at this point are from the power buy, should any of them have a problem they would have posted it here to communicate with the other owners on the forum that they had to make a user name with to even buy it. Checking other forums and websites I have yet to see the TVs shipping from anywhere but TVA in decent numbers.

So, yes, I agree that the number of problems is probably about standard for any product. Remember only the hardcore will continue to post after they have gotten what they wanted and seen no problems. People with problems will also post to no end; understandably so, but increasing the visibility of errors nonetheless. There are also the epidemics that spread when people start looking for errors they didn't see before.

Clorox: I think that if you go through the entire thread, you'll get closer to 10 than 4 people that have had some sort of problems.

But, I admire TVA for their customer service!!! No doubt that they are 1st class.

I would also say that replacing 4 DLP TVs, by the same individual, is not just "bad" luck. I would state that it is STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT!

Well, without a doubt, 4 sets for one individual is statistically significant. Nonetheless, 4 TVs for one individual means one of two things to me, since Samsung has already earned itself a reputation for both reliability and good customer service since it began producing DLP sets.

Either bad luck, or an extremely picky consumer. AVS readers are not normal people.

You should never have this problem. Something to me is wrong with your set, I think. I dont think that there is an adjustment in the Menu for this.

From what I've read, the board that houses the DMD is tilted slightly to cause this problem. To straighten it is a lengthy PITA procedure that is supposed to be more difficult than replacing the light engine.
I'm just wondering if anyone elses picture is tilted slightly and if so by how much.

these problems are from people on this forum to post it. What about the other people who are not even on a forum at all that have a broken set?? I bet many!!! Most people read the forums, but will not register to write anything.
Only registered AVS members can buy using the powerbuy offer at TVA. The question was about defective sets through the powerbuy because those people will definitely post here if they have a problem.

Thus far, no one has confirmed 5.1 from the Samsung TV's optical output when using a HDMI input.

Don't know what the situation is for all the other manufacturers.

Thus far, no one has confirmed 5.1 from the Samsung TV's optical output when using a HDMI input.

Don't know what the situation is for all the other manufacturers.

Qualia 006 does not pass 5.1 via optical from HDMI

Thus far, no one has confirmed 5.1 from the Samsung TV's optical output when using a HDMI input.

Don't know what the situation is for all the other manufacturers.

I thought that when you use an HDMI cable that the 5.1 is standard. Am I wrong to think this? Samsung told me that when you hook it up with the HDMI cable, it is automatically set for 5.1 to be the source.

It is possible to get 1920x1080 with 1:1 mapping. I have been able to get it by tweaking the videocard timing and adjusting the TV's Wide PC picture size to maximum. I use Linux so I don't know how to do it in WIndows.



How do you adjust the "TV's Wide PC picture size to maximum"?

AVS readers are not normal people.:D LMAO :D

I just talked to Samsung and they said that there should not be any tilt to the picture. They said it was probably damaged during shipment so I'm going to call TVA so they can send a replacement.

StallionRe: the way that you described it was the way all of us were hoping that it would work. I don't know why there should be a problem passing multichannel audio from the HDMI input, but, apparently, there is!!!

I have been watching this thread very carefully for this piece of information. I believe that I can accurately state that there has been no CONFIRMED 5.1 audio out of the TV's optical output from a HDMI input.

For cable card and OTA, the answer is a definite YES for 5.1 out of the optical output.

StallionRe: the way that you described it was the way all of us were hoping that it would work. I don't know why there should be a problem passing multichannel audio from the HDMI input, but, apparently, there is!!!

I have been watching this thread very carefully for this piece of information. I believe that I can accurately state that there has been no CONFIRMED 5.1 audio out of the TV's optical output from a HDMI input.

For cable card and OTA, the answer is a definite YES for 5.1 out of the optical output.

This is a stupid problem that is rampant among manufacturers and it has got to be the stupidest thing I've seen on TV sets, whether they be Samsung, Sony, JVC, etc. Why, for example, a $10,000 Qualia can't even do it is beyond me.

Thinking about getting the 6168... is there a particular DVD movie, or HD show that I could record on my HD Tivo, where the rainbow effect is easily seen, if the TV has that problem? Or should I say, what scene from what show/movie did you see the rainbow effect at its worst? If I can play that part before purchasing the TV, and it looks acceptable to me, then I'll be happy with it.

I had a 5067 (720p). I saw rainbows, but they did not bother me much.
The strongest rainbow was when I looked down/away from the geometry test pattern on the AVIA disc. The pattern is a thin white circle on a black background.
But that is not a typical movie scene.

StallionRe: the way that you described it was the way all of us were hoping that it would work. I don't know why there should be a problem passing multichannel audio from the HDMI input, but, apparently, there is!!!

I have been watching this thread very carefully for this piece of information. I believe that I can accurately state that there has been no CONFIRMED 5.1 audio out of the TV's optical output from a HDMI input.

For cable card and OTA, the answer is a definite YES for 5.1 out of the optical output.

IF THIS IS THE CASE, THEN THAT SUCKS. There should be 5.1 out of the output from the HDMI input. How strange is that? Why would they build a TV like that?

This is a stupid problem that is rampant among manufacturers and it has got to be the stupidest thing I've seen on TV sets, whether they be Samsung, Sony, JVC, etc. Why, for example, a $10,000 Qualia can't even do it is beyond me.

They all need to add something to thier Circuit boards to have this work. How strange is that?

IF THIS IS THE CASE, THEN THAT SUCKS. There should be 5.1 out of the output from the HDMI input. How strange is that? Why would they build a TV like that?

Set needs to have a built-in Dolby Decoder to do this. Toshiba DLP's do.

IF THIS IS THE CASE, THEN THAT SUCKS. There should be 5.1 out of the output from the HDMI input. How strange is that? Why would they build a TV like that?

Name one model of television that WILL pass HDMI 5.1 from say a DVD player, into the TV, and then via optical out to an AVR and retain the full 5.1

Name one model of television that WILL pass HDMI 5.1 from say a DVD player, into the TV, and then via optical out to an AVR and retain the full 5.1

I just did -Toshiba. I'm sure you'll find others if you look....

Set needs to have a built-in Dolby Decoder to do this. Toshiba DLP's do.

Gazelle is wrong, once again. The Samsung sets have a Dolby Decoder built in. That is exactly why 5.1 passes from CableCard or OTA signals to an AVR from the optical out on the sets. For some reason, no sets will accept the 5.1 that is being passed from a box or dvd player.

I believe someone confirmed with Toshiba Tech support that in fact the set will not pass HDMI received from a box/player.

Set needs to have a built-in Dolby Decoder to do this. Toshiba DLP's do.

No they do not pass 5.1 thorough hdmi. The manual does not state they they do. The toshiba manual says the same thing the samsung manual says "multi-channel" that does not mean 5.1. In all of these cases it means 2.0.

I just did -Toshiba. I'm sure you'll find others if you look....

There aren't any. This was all covered weeks and weeks ago. It doesn't work this way with any current shipping or past shipping tv's as far as hdmi goes.

Wait,

see if you can guess who I am now:

"Theses Samsung sets suck because even though the picture is aweseome they're not *really* 1080p. JVC rules. Toshiba passes 5.1 through HDMI but Samsung doesn't. Mitsubishi has much better customer service than Samsung. Samsung is a low-end manufacturer and Toshiba is a high-end manufacturer".

All I have to say to keep this on topic is that the PQ is fantastic on these sets. My only mistake is that I have to wait for an HD box right now because of the apartment building I'm in.

Quick question for anyone that knows. What channel transmits the TV Guide data in NYC? I can't seem to get the guide data to come up, and the only channel I can't seem to get in DTV is PBS.

Wait,

see if you can guess who I am now:

"Theses Samsung sets suck because even though the picture is aweseome they're not *really* 1080p. JVC rules. Toshiba passes 5.1 through HDMI but Samsung doesn't. Mitsubishi has much better customer service than Samsung. Samsung is a low-end manufacturer and Toshiba is a high-end manufacturer".



Ah, let me guess, ah, oh, Gazelle!

Wait,

see if you can guess who I am now:

"Theses Samsung sets suck because even though the picture is aweseome they're not *really* 1080p. JVC rules. Toshiba passes 5.1 through HDMI but Samsung doesn't. Mitsubishi has much better customer service than Samsung. Samsung is a low-end manufacturer and Toshiba is a high-end manufacturer".
.

You forgot to mention that "the buzz is that Toshiba will have the best of all the new 1080p dlp's".

Thinking about getting the 6168... is there a particular DVD movie, or HD show that I could record on my HD Tivo, where the rainbow effect is easily seen, if the TV has that problem? Or should I say, what scene from what show/movie did you see the rainbow effect at its worst? If I can play that part before purchasing the TV, and it looks acceptable to me, then I'll be happy with it.

The movie I saw rainbows on was The Day the Earth Stood Still (a black and white movie), especially during high contrast night scenes, like when there are bright street lights against a dark background and the camera is panning. That was on an inexpensive Dell front projector; I assume the home theater oriented Samsungs would be a bit better even with material that challenging.

I have been playing around with my Samsung 950 and 6168. I was just wondering what settings people have been using with their set? Both for the 950 and for the 6168. What I am referring to is the Sharpness, Brightness, Color, and Contrast.

Thanks

Wait,

Quick question for anyone that knows. What channel transmits the TV Guide data in NYC? I can't seem to get the guide data to come up, and the only channel I can't seem to get in DTV is PBS.

I don't know the channel numbers, but TV Guide uses the VBI, the vertical blanking interval to transmit the information, this is an analog function, so it is the old transmitters that handle it not the new digital transmitters.

Lee

Set needs to have a built-in Dolby Decoder to do this. Toshiba DLP's do.

gazelle, You have stated this before but it's not true. I sent an email to Toshiba's tech support and they stated that none of their sets are capable of this today and they didn't know of any manufacture's sets that were.

I don't know the channel numbers, but TV Guide uses the VBI, the vertical blanking interval to transmit the information, this is an analog function, so it is the old transmitters that handle it not the new digital transmitters.

Lee

That's really interesting actually. The OTA Analog reception in my place is pretty bad, but I can't exactly adjust the antenna since it's really just the coax line connected to the DirecTV dish equipment on my building's roof. I don't really mind having to go without the guide data anyway. Anyone know why I might not be getting PBS DTV? I mean, sometimes I get as far as the Trenton, NJ locals from where I am, and I definitely am getting perfect signal on all the local NYC digital stations. I kind of just assumed they were all being broadcast from the empire state building (my building basically has line of site to the Empire State Building).

I just did -Toshiba. I'm sure you'll find others if you look....

HDMI does not allow 5.1 to be passed, period. So no TV will be able to pass this back to an AVR if it comes through on HDMI. As I have stated before, please believe the opposite of what gazelle says.

HDMI 5.1 (http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html)

Set needs to have a built-in Dolby Decoder to do this. Toshiba DLP's do.
They should all have it. The cost is low.

Thanks to everyone for posting their experiences with their sets so far. I've seen lots of remarks on how various upconverting DVD players look with the Sammy 1080ps, but very little on how good of a job the internal scalers do. Anyone out there running a plain-jane 480i or 480p DVD player to their new set? How does it do?

I have had my 6168w TV for a little over a week now. So far I have not experienced any of the lip sync issues people are reporting in this thread. I connected my Denon DVD player to my TV using an HDMI cable, and my Comcast HD/DVR set box via a DVI/HDMI cable. I ran the audio from my DVD and HD/DVR box via optical cables to my B&K receiver. Picture and sound is amazing for HD broadcasts. The only complaint I have is the picture quality with standard television, which is god awful. I use a component cable when viewing standard cable channels instead of my DVI connection, this helps the picture quality a bit. I might connect an s-video cable from my cable box to see if that improves the picture for standard programming. Also, creating a macro for my Universal Remote to switch between tv inputs (DVD, GAME, HDTV) has been a challenge. I have not figured out a way to record a macro that will switch to the correct input source when selecting different components. Would be much easier if I could run DVI or HDMI cables into the back of my B&K receiver. Anyone figure this one out yet??

wmwrose

I have had my 6168 for about 1 week. I have no lip sync problem with any channel. However, I have the picture hooked via an DVI/HDMI cable and the sound hooked from the television via an optical cable to the AVR. The reason I did it that way was to avoid any possible lip sync problems. So far the sound is good and I "think" I am getting DD 5.1. At least, it sounds like DD 5.1 on certain movies I watch. I also have my Denon 2910 hooked straight into the television via an HDMI cable and have had no problems on that front. Hope this helps you.
I suspect that your STB is sending a 2 channel PCM with Dolby Pro Logic to the TV and then the TV is sending 2 channel to the AVR. You will have to have an indicator on the AVR to show 5.1 and not just the sound.

So far to date I have not seen anyone post a device hooked via HDMI to the x8's that can connect with Bitstream.

pry_to_me

While you're at it, try a composit cable. Sometimes there's a 3 d filter in composit inputs that don't appear in any of the other ones.

They should all have it. The cost is low.

I agree with that point, but unfortunately that won't happen, as was the case for the $10,000 Qualia. Rather than dwell on this, we should move on and come up with constructive solutions for passing audio to our systems.

The only complaint I have is the picture quality with standard television, which is god awful.

Which set are you using and at what distance? I am sitting 8 feet from my 56", and believe me, that is the reason SD sucks on my set.

I think it has been confirmed as a fact that no manufacturer's sets currently pass a 5.1 input as 5.1 from their digital outs.
So far I don't think we have even gotten anyone to say their TV accepted a 5.1 signal via HDMI, let alone passed it through. Those of us with the SS HD DVD 950 are constantly being reminded about that fact. :rolleyes:

So far I don't think we have even gotten anyone to say their TV accepted a 5.1 signal via HDMI, let alone passed it through. Those of us with the SS HD DVD 950 are constantly being reminded about that fact. :rolleyes:

I doubt very much that the TV will accept an 5.1 over HDMI for there is little
reason for it to do so, i.e. it does not generate surround sound. With a cable
card it should decode the coax signal for video and pass along the audio
over the optical output.

It should at the very least output the unencoded 5.1 DD bit stream over digital
optical or else why does it have an optical output? For stereo? The default sound
for HD broadcast is DD 5.1...

HDMI does not allow 5.1 to be passed, period. So no TV will be able to pass this back to an AVR if it comes through on HDMI. As I have stated before, please believe the opposite of what gazelle says.

HDMI 5.1 (http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html)

Very nice article on 5.1 HDMI. I read it and now I completely understand what they are talking about. However, I am still upset of the simple fact that the set's dont have the 5.1 audio.

Set needs to have a built-in Dolby Decoder to do this. Toshiba DLP's do.
gazzelle: You keep telling us this. Would you please take the time to explain to me how the TV receives a dolby digital signal from a broadcaster via the coax cables (cable or ota) and can convert it to 2 channel at the set without a DD decoder? Sure I can see how you would just strip the 5.1 audio and pass it through to the optical. Thats a no brainer. Does every signal also get sent a PCM audio along with the DD? If not then I am confused how the TV can play 2 channels of the DD 5.1 stream without a DD decoder.

Thanks to everyone for posting their experiences with their sets so far. I've seen lots of remarks on how various upconverting DVD players look with the Sammy 1080ps, but very little on how good of a job the internal scalers do. Anyone out there running a plain-jane 480i or 480p DVD player to their new set? How does it do?

I am running an old Sony DVD player at 480i over s-video currently and the picture looks great (I have Film Mode turned on). I can't compare it to component or HDMI yet as I have not ordered an upconverting/progressive DVD player yet.

Which set are you using and at what distance? I am sitting 8 feet from my 56", and believe me, that is the reason SD sucks on my set.
WOW and I feel bad, I am 5-6 feet away from my 61 inch. Talking about being blown away.

I am running an old Sony DVD player at 480i over s-video currently and the picture looks great (I have Film Mode turned on). I can't compare it to component or HDMI yet as I have not ordered an upconverting/progressive DVD player yet.
I just bought the new SONY 975N DVD progressive scan player with HDMI output. This should be real SWEET when I hook it all up, I am hoping. I will post my finding later for sure.

HDMI does not allow 5.1 to be passed, period. So no TV will be able to pass this back to an AVR if it comes through on HDMI.Just to clarify, HDMI will pass Dolby 5.1. The problem is that the HDMI implementation on many sending devices will only send PCM, and the HDMI implementation on all display devices (AFAIK) in current production will only accept PCM. This has been posted before, but once again: from the HDMI website:

"Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?

Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) The fact that the vast majority of HDMI products shipped are two-channel TVs that don’t support more than two-channel audio doesn’t make this any less the case..."

gazzelle: You keep telling us this. Would you please take the time to explain to me how the TV receives a dolby digital signal from a broadcaster via the coax cables (cable or ota) and can convert it to 2 channel at the set without a DD decoder? Sure I can see how you would just strip the 5.1 audio and pass it through to the optical. Thats a no brainer. Does every signal also get sent a PCM audio along with the DD? If not then I am confused how the TV can play 2 channels of the DD 5.1 stream without a DD decoder.
I dont believe any DLP TV's do. Not even Toshiba's, this is what I am told as of now.

Just to clarify, HDMI will pass Dolby 5.1. The problem is that the HDMI implementation on many sending devices will only send PCM, and the HDMI implementation on all display devices (AFAIK) in current production will only accept PCM. This has been posted before, but once again: from the HDMI website:

"Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?

Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) The fact that the vast majority of HDMI products shipped are two-channel TVs that don’t support more than two-channel audio doesn’t make this any less the case..."

My Denon 3910 could output DD 5.1/6.1 , DTS 5.1/6.1 , DVD-A, and SACD all over HDMI along with the video.

But the reason TVs don't is that there no reason for them to receive more than
stereo audio this way...

OK I have read lots about these sets but I am still a little concerned about using this set as a monitor as well as for watching videos. Both my dad and mom have poor eye site and they want to buy a new tv and use it to watch videos AND also to use it to surf the web and read e-mail as a monitor. They would be sitting about 10 feet from the set.

I was thinking on getting a media center PC and also the Samsung 67" set for them. So the question is will this make them happy??? or should I get a different setup for this dual purpose?

Gary R

Just to clarify, HDMI will pass Dolby 5.1. The problem is that the HDMI implementation on many sending devices will only send PCM, and the HDMI implementation on all display devices (AFAIK) in current production will only accept PCM. This has been posted before, but once again: from the HDMI website:

"Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?

Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) The fact that the vast majority of HDMI products shipped are two-channel TVs that don’t support more than two-channel audio doesn’t make this any less the case..."
I AGREE!!! This is true. HDMI is the highest form to send signal and audio over 8 channels. The picture quality is the very best that I have even seen in my life. DVI only sends Video.

That's really interesting actually. The OTA Analog reception in my place is pretty bad, but I can't exactly adjust the antenna since it's really just the coax line connected to the DirecTV dish equipment on my building's roof. I don't really mind having to go without the guide data anyway. Anyone know why I might not be getting PBS DTV? I mean, sometimes I get as far as the Trenton, NJ locals from where I am, and I definitely am getting perfect signal on all the local NYC digital stations. I kind of just assumed they were all being broadcast from the empire state building (my building basically has line of site to the Empire State Building).
Didn't you see my comments a few days ago and the response from the member who stated that it was due to the local PBS station doing work on the signal? You have to run auto-scan again to get them back.

I have been playing around with my Samsung 950 and 6168. I was just wondering what settings people have been using with their set? Both for the 950 and for the 6168. What I am referring to is the Sharpness, Brightness, Color, and Contrast.FWIW, here are my settings using Movie mode when my 5078's hooked to my HD950 via HDMI:

Contrast: 45
I dropped this down from the default of 70 just to reduce the occurrence of rainbows in high-contrast scenes. The contrast setting really did little to help me adjust when using the THX Optimizer video tests, so I opted for a setting easier on the eyes (the 50" set can really be a torch at default settings, even in Movie mode).

Brightness: 47
In the THX black level tests, I found that 45 didn't allow me to see the 6th and 7th blocks in the pluge bars, and that 51 began washing out my blacks. I had it at 49 until I got some greyish artifacts in the blacks in one scene in LOTR: ROTK, so I backed it off and I'm quite happy with it. Note that the 950 won't pass BTB in progressive mode, but I'm still quite happy with the combination.

Sharpness: 25
I left this at its default setting. Movie mode is already much softer than the other Picture Modes, and I didn't see any detriment at 25 when compared to 0.

Color: 55
I'm going back and forth between this and the default 45. Haven't decided what's most natural yet.

Tint: 50 (unadjustable over HDMI)

Color Tone: Warm 2 (unadjustable in Movie Mode)

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I left the Picture Quality settings of the HD950 at their defaults (Brightness: 3 ... Sharpness: 3 ... Color Saturation: 3).

gazelle, You have stated this before but it's not true. I sent an email to Toshiba's tech support and they stated that none of their sets are capable of this today and they didn't know of any manufacture's sets that were.
You are correct. I just talked to Toshiba and they do not have this setup at all. Maybe in the future, but not now.

FWIW, here are my settings using Movie mode when my 5078's hooked to my HD950 via HDMI:

Contrast: 45
I dropped this down from the default of 70 just to reduce the occurrence of rainbows in high-contrast scenes. The contrast setting really did little to help me adjust when using the THX Optimizer video tests, so I opted for a setting easier on the eyes (the 50" set can really be a torch at default settings, even in Movie mode).

Brightness: 47
In the THX black level tests, I found that 45 didn't allow me to see the 6th and 7th blocks in the pluge bars, and that 51 began washing out my blacks. I had it at 49 until I got some greyish artifacts in the blacks in one scene in LOTR: ROTK, so I backed it off and I'm quite happy with it. Note that the 950 won't pass BTB in progressive mode, but I'm still quite happy with the combination.

Sharpness: 25
I left this at its default setting. Movie mode is already much softer than the other Picture Modes, and I didn't see any detriment at 25 when compared to 0.

Color: 55
I'm going back and forth between this and the default 45. Haven't decided what's most natural yet.

Tint: 50 (unadjustable over HDMI)

Color Tone: Warm 2 (unadjustable in Movie Mode)

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I left the Picture Quality settings of the HD950 at their defaults (Brightness: 3 ... Sharpness: 3 ... Color Saturation: 3).
Thanks for these settings, I will check this out when I get my TV in.
This will help big time.

Thanks for these settings, I will check this out when I get my TV in.
This will help big time.No problem, although I would expect that your viewing environment will have at least some impact upon how you set yours up. Also, for regular daytime tv viewing, I'm toying with slightly brighter settings in Movie mode and in Custom mode ... not sure where I'll end up for SD and HD sources yet.

We have had our 6168 (bought through the Power Buy) for two weeks now and it is incredible!

I am stunned by the PQ -- both HD and SD. I had seen the prototype sets at CES in January so the HD quality (bright, clear colors, good dark scene detail and blacks; almost 3-D impact) is what I expected. It's unbelievable that this quality (1080p, 5000:1 contrast, etc.) and form factor (only 18" deep and light enough for my wife to help lift, unlike our last direct-view sets!) are available for the Power Buy price.

What has surprised me the most is the SD quality of the DIRECTV feeds (from our HD DIRECTV TiVo DVR feeding through the HDMI connection). We don't use any trick display modes (Panoramic, or any of the stretch modes) and very few artifacts are noticeable, even when I'm looking for them. Discovery, SciFi, etc. are all great! Pry_to_me had reported that his "Picture and sound is amazing for HD broadcasts. The only complaint I have is the picture quality with standard television, which is god awful." I can only guess that the problem is with his cable source (analog?) because I was just amazed by the SD quality.

I'll look forward to trying some self-calibration once the bulb burns in a bit, but right out of the box this set is everything I hoped for, and even more!

No problem, although I would expect that your viewing environment will have at least some impact upon how you set yours up. Also, for regular daytime tv viewing, I'm toying with slightly brighter settings in Movie mode and in Custom mode ... not sure where I'll end up for SD and HD sources yet.
You are right!!! It depends on my set, room light, and distance. Your settings will be the basis of my settings. I will start with your settings and then adjust them for me. At least your settings are my reference point. Thanks again. Sometimes these settings are very hard to get. You can spend hours on them.

We have had our 6168 (bought through the Power Buy) for two weeks now and it is incredible!

I am stunned by the PQ -- both HD and SD. I had seen the prototype sets at CES in January so the HD quality (bright, clear colors, good dark scene detail and blacks; almost 3-D impact) is what I expected. It's unbelievable that this quality (1080p, 5000:1 contrast, etc.) and form factor (only 18" deep and light enough for my wife to help lift, unlike our last direct-view sets!) are available for the Power Buy price.

What has surprised me the most is the SD quality of the DIRECTV feeds (from our HD DIRECTV TiVo DVR feeding through the HDMI connection). We don't use any trick display modes (Panoramic, or any of the stretch modes) and very few artifacts are noticeable, even when I'm looking for them. Discovery, SciFi, etc. are all great! Pry_to_me had reported that his "Picture and sound is amazing for HD broadcasts. The only complaint I have is the picture quality with standard television, which is god awful." I can only guess that the problem is with his cable source (analog?) because I was just amazed by the SD quality.

I'll look forward to trying some self-calibration once the bulb burns in a bit, but right out of the box this set is everything I hoped for, and even more!
Your insight will be good for all of us to read. Thanks for your findings. I am glad that you have received a good set that works. That is great to hear. Please post your findings more when you play around with your set.

We have had our 6168 (bought through the Power Buy) for two weeks now and it is incredible!

I am stunned by the PQ -- both HD and SD. I had seen the prototype sets at CES in January so the HD quality (bright, clear colors, good dark scene detail and blacks; almost 3-D impact) is what I expected. It's unbelievable that this quality (1080p, 5000:1 contrast, etc.) and form factor (only 18" deep and light enough for my wife to help lift, unlike our last direct-view sets!) are available for the Power Buy price.

What has surprised me the most is the SD quality of the DIRECTV feeds (from our HD DIRECTV TiVo DVR feeding through the HDMI connection). We don't use any trick display modes (Panoramic, or any of the stretch modes) and very few artifacts are noticeable, even when I'm looking for them. Discovery, SciFi, etc. are all great! Pry_to_me had reported that his "Picture and sound is amazing for HD broadcasts. The only complaint I have is the picture quality with standard television, which is god awful." I can only guess that the problem is with his cable source (analog?) because I was just amazed by the SD quality.

I'll look forward to trying some self-calibration once the bulb burns in a bit, but right out of the box this set is everything I hoped for, and even more!
I believe all HD signals from a cable provider would be great since it is the best of the best and all Digital too or at least converted. ANALOG, OUCH that is a BAD WORD!!!

How happy is everyone with their black levels so far, when viewing a good DVD or HD source? Specifically, how do your blacks compare when viewing mixed-value scenes vs. very dark scenes? I'm not talking about the amount of shadow detail. In almost all situations, I'm happy with shadow detail. I'm talking about how well the tv displays black (ie, how dark is it?) in various situations.

Here's a quick description of my 5078 observation on this thus far:

During mixed-value scenes (where there's roughly, say, 30%+ of non-shadow material on the screen), I find the black levels look absolutely stunning. I'm attibuting this to the high contrast ratio in combination with the smaller 50" screen -- highlights are truly vibrant, which helps deepen my perceived value of the blacks.

During primarily dark scenes, the black levels don't look as impressive. No matter how far down I drop Contrast or Brightness, there's an absolute threshold for black that isn't as dark as I'd like. I'm again attibuting this to the high contrast ratio -- this time specifically due to light scatter from a bright bulb and a smaller cabinet.

Would love to see if those with the smaller sets find their blacks not quite as dark as those with the larger ones. Or am I just figuring out what you big-screen tv veterans have known for years? ;)

Thanks for the input, I'm absolutely loving my 5078.

I just bought the new SONY 975N DVD progressive scan player with HDMI output. This should be real SWEET when I hook it all up, I am hoping. I will post my finding later for sure.

Great. Yes please do post your results.

FWIW, here are my settings using Movie mode when my 5078's hooked to my HD950 via HDMI:

Contrast: 45
I dropped this down from the default of 70 just to reduce the occurrence of rainbows in high-contrast scenes. The contrast setting really did little to help me adjust when using the THX Optimizer video tests, so I opted for a setting easier on the eyes (the 50" set can really be a torch at default settings, even in Movie mode).

Brightness: 47
In the THX black level tests, I found that 45 didn't allow me to see the 6th and 7th blocks in the pluge bars, and that 51 began washing out my blacks. I had it at 49 until I got some greyish artifacts in the blacks in one scene in LOTR: ROTK, so I backed it off and I'm quite happy with it. Note that the 950 won't pass BTB in progressive mode, but I'm still quite happy with the combination.

Sharpness: 25
I left this at its default setting. Movie mode is already much softer than the other Picture Modes, and I didn't see any detriment at 25 when compared to 0.

Color: 55
I'm going back and forth between this and the default 45. Haven't decided what's most natural yet.

Tint: 50 (unadjustable over HDMI)

Color Tone: Warm 2 (unadjustable in Movie Mode)

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I left the Picture Quality settings of the HD950 at their defaults (Brightness: 3 ... Sharpness: 3 ... Color Saturation: 3).

Were these setting in "Movie" or another picture setting? It appears that "Movie" performs different processing than the other modes.

Great. Yes please do post your results.
I sure will. I got the DVD player on www.SonyStyle.com check out their site, it is awesome. I love Sony products. This DVD works the very best on my 36 LCD WEGA Engine TV upstairs. I will hook it up to my Samsung TV 6178 downstairs when I get it in this week. Maybe on Friday. I will post everything soon.

Great. Yes please do post your results.
This is the link to the player, check it out.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DVPNS975V&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_DVD_DVDPlayers

How happy is everyone with their black levels so far, when viewing a good DVD or HD source? Specifically, how do your blacks compare when viewing mixed-value scenes vs. very dark scenes? I'm not talking about the amount of shadow detail. In almost all situations, I'm happy with shadow detail. I'm talking about how well the tv displays black (ie, how dark is it?) in various situations.

Here's a quick description of my 5078 observation on this thus far:

During mixed-value scenes (where there's roughly, say, 30%+ of non-shadow material on the screen), I find the black levels look absolutely stunning. I'm attibuting this to the high contrast ratio in combination with the smaller 50" screen -- highlights are truly vibrant, which helps deepen my perceived value of the blacks.

During primarily dark scenes, the black levels don't look as impressive. No matter how far down I drop Contrast or Brightness, there's an absolute threshold for black that isn't as dark as I'd like. I'm again attibuting this to the high contrast ratio -- this time specifically due to light scatter from a bright bulb and a smaller cabinet.

Would love to see if those with the smaller sets find their blacks not quite as dark as those with the larger ones. Or am I just figuring out what you big-screen tv veterans have known for years? ;)

Thanks for the input, I'm absolutely loving my 5078.


Are you using movie mode?

Wow, lots of posts today, hard to keep up!

This is the link to the player, check it out.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DVPNS975V&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_DVD_DVDPlayers

Cool. Thanks.

May be I am asking the same question again? If so please redirect me to the proper thread

I have a loptop with GOFX5200 NVIDIA card. How is the picture when 6168 VGA is connected with computer VGA using regular VGA to VGA cable. Is it sharp enough to do regular web browsing, emailing and routine pc stuff?? What screen resolution should I select in the laptop for the best possible image??

For all those looking for positive reviews --- look no further than sammy 1080P series. I got my HLR 6168 set 10 days ago and so far I am very very happy with it. I watch mainly dish network SD tv (regular plus south asian channels) and I have no problem so far. Picture is great overall (sucks sometimes on some channels but thats becasue of the poor source material). OTA HD and SD channels look very crisp and clear. Occasionally I watch dvd's on my Phillips 642 player connected via componet to 1015 pioneer AVR to 6168. I used AVIA and DVE for basic calibration and came up with Contrast 41 - Brightness 47 - Color 47 - Sharpness 0 with Normal tone and 3+ red correction. So far so good. After getting this TV I ordered 5067 for my brother too (not enough budget for 5668) relying on samsung to provide the great similar viewing experience on 67 series.

Anyone who had 5067 --- will 5067 live upto our expectations???

When will the 68s and 78s make their way to the "Best Buys" of the world?

They are in the BB in New York that have Magnolias in them.

They have a 6168 at the Magnolia/BestBuy in my area.

When will the 68s and 78s make their way to the "Best Buys" of the world?

BB/Magnolia in E. Hanover, NJ had the 5668 and 6168 on display since last week.

I have had my 6168w TV for a little over a week now. So far I have not experienced any of the lip sync issues people are reporting in this thread. I connected my Denon DVD player to my TV using an HDMI cable, and my Comcast HD/DVR set box via a DVI/HDMI cable. I ran the audio from my DVD and HD/DVR box via optical cables to my B&K receiver. Picture and sound is amazing for HD broadcasts. The only complaint I have is the picture quality with standard television, which is god awful. I use a component cable when viewing standard cable channels instead of my DVI connection, this helps the picture quality a bit. I might connect an s-video cable from my cable box to see if that improves the picture for standard programming. Also, creating a macro for my Universal Remote to switch between tv inputs (DVD, GAME, HDTV) has been a challenge. I have not figured out a way to record a macro that will switch to the correct input source when selecting different components. Would be much easier if I could run DVI or HDMI cables into the back of my B&K receiver. Anyone figure this one out yet??

To improve SD performance, by-pass STB (split coax and feed TV directly) and let the tuners in your TV handle SD.

As for the macro problems, go to remotecentral.com and pick up the DISCRETE codes for the HLP DLP's. These codes will execute the exact command that you need.

How do you adjust the "TV's Wide PC picture size to maximum"?

Hit the "Menu" button on the TV remote. Select "Picture", on the right select "Size". Select "Wide PC" then arrow down and to the right most icon, then use the up/down arrows to resize the display.

Anyway, as I understand it, all of the new 1080p DLPs (Toshiba and Mitsubishi) will have the same xHD4 chip and so will presumably look as good (or as bad depending on who you are) as each other. They'll presumably all also be crippled wrt 1080p input capability and DD5.1 via HDMI input.

I think you're probably right wrt the PQ of all the new 1080p sets. Though I have a great experience with my hlp 6163, I'm very attracted to the Mits 73"-er, and it's very attractive price. I just need to VERIFY that the PQ of it and the Sammy and it are equivalent, and get over my shyness about the Mits track record with their present dlp's (which many people really like, but seems to have had more glitches than the Sammies).

May be I am asking the same question again? If so please redirect me to the proper thread

I have a loptop with GOFX5200 NVIDIA card. How is the picture when 6168 VGA is connected with computer VGA using regular VGA to VGA cable. Is it sharp enough to do regular web browsing, emailing and routine pc stuff?? What screen resolution should I select in the laptop for the best possible image??



Yes, computer display via VGA is very nice. I use mine for web browsing, emailing, pc gaming etc. I use 1920x1080 and expand the picture to the maximum via the TV menu. (see post above)

I sure will. I got the DVD player on www.SonyStyle.com check out their site, it is awesome. I love Sony products. This DVD works the very best on my 36 LCD WEGA Engine TV upstairs. I will hook it up to my Samsung TV 6178 downstairs when I get it in this week. Maybe on Friday. I will post everything soon.

I agree that the sony s975 sounds nice, but have you read the awful reports of how it holds up? I have no experience with it, but there are an enormous number of negative reports; e.g., see cnet.

Yes, computer display via VGA is very nice. I use mine for web browsing, emailing, pc gaming etc. I use 1920x1080 and expand the picture to the maximum via the TV menu. (see post above)

Any pictures of this?

How happy is everyone with their black levels so far

Amazing is a good word for them. I never understood what people were talking about with black levels etc until I started looking at LCD's. Then I understood what muddy meant. Now looking at my 6168 I am really in awe. I don't know if its my brain or fact but it just seems to get better and better every day!

I run in movie mode while watching dvd's over hdmi connection, but just standard for hidef stuff and normal tv.

I agree that the sony s975 sounds nice, but have you read the awful reports of how it holds up? I have no experience with it, but there are an enormous number of negative reports; e.g., see cnet.

When I was testing DVD players at Magnolia, the staff told me that the s975 had a lot of problems. A little research will yield many tales of dead players and damaged disc's. Perhaps Sony has fixed the problems, but I usually won't bet against a long string of owners that say the unit is unreliable.

Are you using movie mode?Haven't made it through the last page of posts yet, but for those asking: Yes, I'm using Movie mode almost exclusively.

Just to give some perspective: Don't get me wrong, I'm quite infatuated with the set. My comments about blacks on occasion not being "black" enough may simply be due to this being my first RPTV (of any kind) experience.

Have you tried adjusting the Gamma in the SM? In earlier models this supposedly helped a lot.I've been thinking on and off about that, but I'm quite scared to go into the SM without others having gone there first. I've seen the old instructions for getting into it on an older model, but I don't know that anyone's gone in and documented the SM for the 1080p sets yet ... would like to know what's the same, what's different first.

We have had our 6168 (bought through the Power Buy) for two weeks now and it is incredible!

I am stunned by the PQ -- both HD and SD. I had seen the prototype sets at CES in January so the HD quality (bright, clear colors, good dark scene detail and blacks; almost 3-D impact) is what I expected. It's unbelievable that this quality (1080p, 5000:1 contrast, etc.) and form factor (only 18" deep and light enough for my wife to help lift, unlike our last direct-view sets!) are available for the Power Buy price.

What has surprised me the most is the SD quality of the DIRECTV feeds (from our HD DIRECTV TiVo DVR feeding through the HDMI connection). We don't use any trick display modes (Panoramic, or any of the stretch modes) and very few artifacts are noticeable, even when I'm looking for them. Discovery, SciFi, etc. are all great! Pry_to_me had reported that his "Picture and sound is amazing for HD broadcasts. The only complaint I have is the picture quality with standard television, which is god awful." I can only guess that the problem is with his cable source (analog?) because I was just amazed by the SD quality.



I'll look forward to trying some self-calibration once the bulb burns in a bit, but right out of the box this set is everything I hoped for, and even more!

what is the reccomended bulb burn in time?

"Some Day My Set Will Come" (sung to the tune of some day my prince will come) and I'll be posting too. Has anyone received the 5678? Tweeter has set back the delivery date four times since the end of July.
Bob

Samsung HLR 5678W
Yamaha RX-V4600
Polk Audio LSi9 Front Speakers
Pollk Audio LSiC-Center Speaker
Polk LSi7 Rear Speakers
Velodyne DLS-5000R 15" Sub
Sony DVP-NS975V dvd
Sony CDP-CX355 CD jukebox
JVC HR-VP770U VCR (yes I still have one of those)

I think it has been confirmed as a fact that no manufacturer's sets currently pass a 5.1 input as 5.1 from their digital outs.
This is NOT correct. The Samsung absolutley passes 5.1 input, but only if the input is via the cable card or the coax antenna in.

It gets hard to follow who he's a fan boy for. Sometimes its Sony, other times its Toshiba, other times its Mitsubishi, other times its JVC. Maybe it depends on what day it is. Anyway, as I understand it, all of the new 1080p DLPs (Toshiba and Mitsubishi) will have the same xHD4 chip and so will presumably look as good (or as bad depending on who you are) as each other. They'll presumably all also be crippled wrt 1080p input capability and DD5.1 via HDMI input.

Its always JVC which he tries to put in the same league as Sony unless someone is dead set on dlp then its Samsung sucks - the low end junk, Mits a little better, and Toshiba the best - the "high end":-)

Will an HD OTA channel being sent from a DirecTV Receiver via HDMI to the Samsung TV have the same PQ as the same channel being watched via the coax cable connected to the Antenna in on the Samsung (i.e., is there any degradation going from the DirecTV Receiver to the TV via HDMI)?

Well, I got to check out the 6168 at Ultimate E in Albuquerque today, sitting equadistant (10-12 ft) from it and a Qualia, though at 90 degrees to each other.

Even in a much bigger set, the Qualia looked sharper, and more contrasty, but IN NO WAY do I consider this a definitive opinion, as both were set to torch mode, and I had no chance to tweak.

The Sammy was on sale for $500 off.

I have decided to take the plunge into high tech heaven and buy a new Nikon D2X, and sell my D70 and trusty F3HP....Oh Well.

New TV, you're just gonna have to wait....Besides, I'm going on vacation on Thursday and couldn't fit a big TV under the seat on the plane.

Anyway, TVs and speakers and AVRs will have to wait till later.

I have a perfectly good 56" HLN for now, and a working setup...can't wait to play with my new toy.

Anyways, I'll leave you guys for now with a picture of Kung Fu Hummingbirds...

OK, OK, I know it's not a picture of a TV set, but we've seen lots of those lately...And noone's making you look......:D

If you're referring to my post, you can remove me from that category...If and when I buy a new TV, it will most likely be another Sammy...The Qualia looks good, but not THAT good--(10K more)....:)

Have you noticed how more and more of the Gazelle/Sony fan club are popping up in Samsung owners threads recently putting down the Samsungs, pointing out their faults and singing the praises of their Sonys? By what I've reading the new Sonys are exactly devoid of problems either.


I think Gazelle is using various email addresses...

Sony's are great products - I am sure they are singing for a reason :-)

Could someone comment on the sharpness vs the HD2+/HD3 models?

I agree that the sony s975 sounds nice, but have you read the awful reports of how it holds up? I have no experience with it, but there are an enormous number of negative reports; e.g., see cnet.
It works well with me. I am buying two more of these. I see the reports, but that is like anything now. Look at the DLP's? They also are getting bad reports. You have to go with what you know and like. The old 975S were a problem, but I have the newer one. The 975V.

When I was testing DVD players at Magnolia, the staff told me that the s975 had a lot of problems. A little research will yield many tales of dead players and damaged disc's. Perhaps Sony has fixed the problems, but I usually won't bet against a long string of owners that say the unit is unreliable.

The 975S have been upgraded and are much better now. The new model 975V is great. This model just came out two months ago. I have no problems at all. One year warranty anyway. Either way, I always buy Sony products. They are simply great!!!

Could someone comment on the sharpness vs the HD2+/HD3 models?


Good question! Let's hope it is more like the HD2+, and not soft and mushy like the HD3. I had an HD3 model, and returned it for lack of detail in the picture. I have seen quite a few HD2+ models at stores that look really nice. I saw the 1080P at a store, but a ballgame was on and it was hard to judge sharpness very well. It looked good, but not WOW type good. I would like to see INHD or DiscoveryHD on one of these soon.

Have you noticed how more and more of the Gazelle/Sony fan club are popping up in Samsung owners threads recently putting down the Samsungs, pointing out their faults and singing the praises of their Sonys? By what I've reading the new Sonys are exactly devoid of problems either.
In my book Samsung and Sony are the very best of products. I have both types of makes in my house of all sorts of devices by both companies. I have to say that I really love the new Samsung DLP tv's and also the Sony WEGA Engine LCD tv"s. You have to admit they look awesome. I bought three Samsung TV's this year and cant wait to watch them during Football season. I am a 100% supporter of SAMSUNG AND SONY.

I think Gazelle is using various email addresses...

Sony's are great products - I am sure they are singing for a reason :-)
In my book Samsung and Sony are the very best of products. I have both types of makes in my house of all sorts of devices by both companies. I have to say that I really love the new Samsung DLP tv's and also the Sony WEGA Engine LCD tv"s. You have to admit they look awesome. I bought three Samsung TV's this year and cant wait to watch them during Football season. I am a 100% supporter of SAMSUNG AND SONY.

Its always JVC which he tries to put in the same league as Sony unless someone is dead set on dlp then its Samsung sucks - the low end junk, Mits a little better, and Toshiba the best - the "high end":-)
JVC,You have got to be kidding. That is a low end model. I dont like the make JVC, (Just Video Crap).

Nope. I wasn't referring to you. :) I was referring to certain people in the Sony, JVC D-ILA, etc. threads who are justifying their A10 and D-ILA, etc purchases by putting down Samsungs.
I hope that I was not in that Category. I have never put Samsung down.

I was thinking the same thing.
I'm not saying the Sonys aren't good products, they obviously are but I'm not finding them appealing enough myself. I viewed a Sony 50" A10 again today (third time) alongside the Samsung HLR5067 and 5078 and kept finding myself drawn to the Samsungs. I just can't not see the SDE & SSE on the Sony. I wasn't too keen on the A10's cabinet design either. However I can see why the Sony A10 is appealing to some people. Anyway, I was just about to buy the 5078 when the sales guy told me the Mits 52" 1080p DLP had just arrived and would be on display later in the week so I'm going to wait to see it before finalizing my decision.

I would not compare the DLPs with LCDs, especially the 1080p DLPs.

The new SXRDs are the ones to compare to the 1080p DLPs. Personally
I believe the 1080p DLP has taken BL and CR to a new level on RPs -
it will be interesting to see how well the SXRDs compare in this area.

Good question! Let's hope it is more like the HD2+, and not soft and mushy like the HD3. I had an HD3 model, and returned it for lack of detail in the picture. I have seen quite a few HD2+ models at stores that look really nice. I saw the 1080P at a store, but a ballgame was on and it was hard to judge sharpness very well. It looked good, but not WOW type good. I would like to see INHD or DiscoveryHD on one of these soon.

I personally have not seen anything as sharp other than the Qualia 06.
If you hook up the 68/78/88 series to a very good source like Discovery HD,
I don't think anyone can honestly there isn't huge difference in PQ over
previous DLP models..

No, not you either. Take a look at recent postings by some new A10 owners in the Sony threads.
I tried the 52" model back in January and wasn't too impressed. But based on what I've been reading in the threads, the JVC D-ILAs (at least those from late last year and early this year - the recently released newer models may be better) seem to be rather hit-and-miss in terms of problems, quality and reliability. The PQ seems to be a love-it or hate-it kind of thing. JVC owners seem to feel the same way about Samsungs.
Thanks. No matter how well JVC can build their TV's, Samsung has the leading edge, due to TI and the HD2+ chips, and higher. I was not impressed when I looked at all the JVC models. The sales people try to push these, because they are not selling. I WONDER WHY?

No, not you either. Take a look at recent postings by some new A10 owners in the Sony threads.
I tried the 52" model back in January and wasn't too impressed. But based on what I've been reading in the threads, the JVC D-ILAs (at least those from late last year and early this year - the recently released newer models may be better) seem to be rather hit-and-miss in terms of problems, quality and reliability. The PQ seems to be a love-it or hate-it kind of thing. JVC owners seem to feel the same way about Samsungs.
THE A10 SONY PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN THREAD TO BRAG.

I personally have not seen anything as sharp other than the Qualia 06.
If you hook up the 68/78/88 series to a very good source like Discovery HD,
I don't think anyone can honestly there isn't huge difference in PQ over
previous DLP models..
Of Course, you cant compare a $10,000K+ Tv to a $3,000-$5,000 Tv. The Qualia is very good. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

I personally have not seen anything as sharp other than the Qualia 06.
If you hook up the 68/78/88 series to a very good source like Discovery HD,
I don't think anyone can honestly there isn't huge difference in PQ over
previous DLP models..
The Qualia is the best, but feel how heavy it is. You need three people to lift it. It is so huge to. 70 inch, that wont fit in most rooms.

The Qualia is the best, but feel how heavy it is. You need three people to lift it. It is so huge to. 70 inch, that wont fit in most rooms.

I disagree it is the best for film. The 1080p DLP have better blacks and
much higher CR so if you watch DVD movies then 1080p DLP has raised
the bar.

No, not you either. Take a look at recent postings by some new A10 owners in the Sony threads.
I tried the 52" model back in January and wasn't too impressed. But based on what I've been reading in the threads, the JVC D-ILAs (at least those from late last year and early this year - the recently released newer models may be better) seem to be rather hit-and-miss in terms of problems, quality and reliability. The PQ seems to be a love-it or hate-it kind of thing. JVC owners seem to feel the same way about Samsungs.

For watching HD Sports during the day in a brightly lit room the JVC D-ILA is
hard to beat due to it being extremely bright.

But being being extremely bright is eactly its problem. It has some of the
very poorest BL and lowest CR out of all microdisplays. Try watching movies
and the dark content looks like mud on your screen and you can't make out
any shadow detail.

System setup, 3 down, enter twice for my Denon 3805. Then right to increase and left to decrease the audio delay for the current input. It only takes 2 to 3 seconds for me to get to the audio delay. I don't even need to look at the receiver display to get there. I have my delay set to 120ms for the audio with my HDMI inputs. That seems to work fine for me.

Can you set up a macro that will assign the delay to specific button? So you can increase/ decrease the delay by 10ms increments. Looks like I got to pull out the manual.

Is this group buy still on?

IF THIS IS THE CASE, THEN THAT SUCKS. There should be 5.1 out of the output from the HDMI input. How strange is that? Why would they build a TV like that?

Because this is the first generation of 1080P DLPs and it is the price you pay being an early adopter. In future generations there will be more features but it is a never ending process. Last year we heard about the 2005 dlp's supporting 1080P. Next year it will be true 1080P inputs and 5.1 surround sound through HDMI. And the following year it will be something else.

This TV is not perfect and it definately has its issues. But I challenge anyone to find a TV technology or manufacture that doesnt have problems. Well everyone but gazelle. :rolleyes: To me - this technology offers the best features for the price point. The fact that we have 75 pages of comments on lip sync issues is proof enough that the price point is attractive enough for new consumers who have not looked at a TV of this size before. This is why I believe our 10K sony friends do not focus on this problem because they all have AVR's to deal with this issue.

So lets focus on what the facts are.
1) Yes there is sync issues - but it seems that it is corrected through a decent AVR with a delay and is primarily external source dependant. As many have posted - pretty much all technologies have this issue but it is going to be more apparent as the Size and picture quality improves. If you are not willing to invest in a decent AVR - then you should look at a smaller screen or stick with a CRT.

2) Yes we have issues with 5.1 audio surround not being passed through HDMI directly to the TV. I believe that some AVRs are also having issues with perfecting HDMI Audio, which is why this generation doesnt have that capability. If this is a bust then you should wait for the next generation 1080P.

3) Gaming Delays - we have mixed reviews. I am not a hard core gamer - but I would like to hear more about this.

4) Rainbows - less than previous generation but still exsist. Some say they will always exsist with a color wheel - but the rotation speed greatly reduces the frequencey.

5) Quality Issues - I read all 75 pages and dont think we have anything out of the ordinary. Those individuals who did have issues, though frustrated, were taking care of with excellent customer service.

6) Picture qualify. Results seem mixed - but source seems to be the primary factor. DVD's movies and HD discovery have gotten overwhelming reviews. SD has been mixed.

There are other benifits and issues that I would like to hear from owners - but it seems like we are getting more speculation from would be owners than the real thing...

Sorry for the rant and long post. 75 pages is a lot to read through... :)

Wait,

see if you can guess who I am now:

"Theses Samsung sets suck because even though the picture is aweseome they're not *really* 1080p. JVC rules. Toshiba passes 5.1 through HDMI but Samsung doesn't. Mitsubishi has much better customer service than Samsung. Samsung is a low-end manufacturer and Toshiba is a high-end manufacturer".

All I have to say to keep this on topic is that the PQ is fantastic on these sets. My only mistake is that I have to wait for an HD box right now because of the apartment building I'm in.

Quick question for anyone that knows. What channel transmits the TV Guide data in NYC? I can't seem to get the guide data to come up, and the only channel I can't seem to get in DTV is PBS.

Oh - pick me, pick me, pick me...

Oh - oh - pick me, pick me, pick me (donkey imitation)

gazelle

jasonblairIs this group buy still on? 30 day Clock has not started to tick - It starts when the last version set starts shipping - the 67" and the 71" has not shipped yet (not certain if the 71" is in this PB). With delays on the larger sets this 30 day PB may go 90 days or longer. :D

Check out the article in this week's Businessweek magazine. Sony will lose 1.3 Billion on TV's this year and is now viewed as a discount seller in their own Japanese market. The article is titled "Time to call in the TV Repairman" .
It is available on their website. Sony appears to be determined to regain their market.

What good is a picture in picture mode, where you can't swap audio between the sources with one button push.

From my usage, I have to go many layers deep through menu to switch the audio -- HELP!!!!

Yesterday I watched a 6168 showing HD Discovery and then Ice Age via an HD950 at at BB Magnolia in Huntington, LI.
While initially watching the HD Discovery, the lack of any apparent pixels was baseline the most amazing part of the PQ. While there were still some movement artifacts they were incredibly minor, but the real proof of the standout performance was the DVD.
There was a 10k Elite 60? inch plasma nearby which yes, was incredible (and 3x the price!) And by he way, once again the Pioneer Elite looks to me to be the class of the whole field and yes Ive seen the Quali a number of times - didnt look at the model # as I dont even want to think about buying that Pioneer Elite (why isnt Pioneer Elite a bigger factor in this market???)
But when we turned on ice age using the included hdmi cable and being BB Magnolia no tweaking I was floored at the PQ.
Just incredible contrast as far as both blacks - and whites when looking at small snowflakes I coudlnt see on a 720p. Absolutely no artifacts, absolutely no pixels and no I couldnt for the life of me hear an sync issues.

As far as I am concerned, after having seen a preproduction xx68 model in April and having been amazed, this floor model at BB was even better.
I'm happy to say that I take delivery on Saturday from a very reputable dealer on LI called Appliance Center in Northport at a very aggressive price.
I now am thinking that I am going to take a pass on a $150 tweak job.
I will be using Cablevision IO wiht hdvr to start, buying the 950 and then looking for a new hdmi avr.
I have b&w's all around with a pioneer elite recvr.

Never been a sports fan on TV; but this year I expect to throw a super bowl party and have a feeling some of my friends that usually go to other parties might come to mine.

When I was testing DVD players at Magnolia, the staff told me that the s975 had a lot of problems. A little research will yield many tales of dead players and damaged disc's. Perhaps Sony has fixed the problems, but I usually won't bet against a long string of owners that say the unit is unreliable.
Sony updated the firmware for this player and most (if not all?) of those posting problems had the earlier firmware. The biggest problem was a malfunctioning tray (it wouldn't open). Also some reported disk read errors. I'm not saying that the player is perfect with the new firmware (make sure you have at least version 1.90), but it may have considerably fewer problems. On the positive side, if the player does work, it may provide the best picture of all the lower end DVD players for the 68 series DLPs.

What good is a picture in picture mode, where you can't swap audio between the sources with one button push.

From my usage, I have to go many layers deep through menu to switch the audio -- HELP!!!!

I had to set up a macro to do this on my HLN. Not ideal, but it works.

While there were still some movement artifacts they were incredibly minor, but the real proof of the standout performance was the DVD.

I've noticed that all the movement artifacts seem to be the source problems. I notice them a lot on hd stuff on ABC and sometimes the INHD channels. But I never see them in very fast moving scenes on dvd's. ABC seems to be the worst, don't know why. During the final episode of Empire it looked really good until the fight scenes then it would fall apart only to return to looking good after the fast action. That doesn't appear on some of the other hd channels and it doesn't appear on dvd's at all.

I disagree it is the best for film. The 1080p DLP have better blacks and
much higher CR so if you watch DVD movies then 1080p DLP has raised
the bar.
This is also true. I believe that all TV's on the market are good in there own little way depending on your application and use. Different strokes for different folks.
Yes, 1080p has a mich higher level of blacks and CR, it also depends on the light in the room which TV will suit you best.

Because this is the first generation of 1080P DLPs and it is the price you pay being an early adopter. In future generations there will be more features but it is a never ending process. Last year we heard about the 2005 dlp's supporting 1080P. Next year it will be true 1080P inputs and 5.1 surround sound through HDMI. And the following year it will be something else.

This TV is not perfect and it definately has its issues. But I challenge anyone to find a TV technology or manufacture that doesnt have problems. Well everyone but gazelle. :rolleyes: To me - this technology offers the best features for the price point. The fact that we have 75 pages of comments on lip sync issues is proof enough that the price point is attractive enough for new consumers who have not looked at a TV of this size before. This is why I believe our 10K sony friends do not focus on this problem because they all have AVR's to deal with this issue.

So lets focus on what the facts are.
1) Yes there is sync issues - but it seems that it is corrected through a decent AVR with a delay and is primarily external source dependant. As many have posted - pretty much all technologies have this issue but it is going to be more apparent as the Size and picture quality improves. If you are not willing to invest in a decent AVR - then you should look at a smaller screen or stick with a CRT.

2) Yes we have issues with 5.1 audio surround not being passed through HDMI directly to the TV. I believe that some AVRs are also having issues with perfecting HDMI Audio, which is why this generation doesnt have that capability. If this is a bust then you should wait for the next generation 1080P.

3) Gaming Delays - we have mixed reviews. I am not a hard core gamer - but I would like to hear more about this.

4) Rainbows - less than previous generation but still exsist. Some say they will always exsist with a color wheel - but the rotation speed greatly reduces the frequencey.

5) Quality Issues - I read all 75 pages and dont think we have anything out of the ordinary. Those individuals who did have issues, though frustrated, were taking care of with excellent customer service.

6) Picture qualify. Results seem mixed - but source seems to be the primary factor. DVD's movies and HD discovery have gotten overwhelming reviews. SD has been mixed.

There are other benifits and issues that I would like to hear from owners - but it seems like we are getting more speculation from would be owners than the real thing...

Sorry for the rant and long post. 75 pages is a lot to read through... :)
GOOD JOB!!! This was helpful. You sure did your homework to state all these facts.
Thanks. I hope that I dont have lip Sync issues. I will see. I tried to get the best DVD player and the Best Monster HDMI cable that money could buy. I will post all my findings when I hook everything up and try it out.

I've noticed that all the movement artifacts seem to be the source problems. I notice them a lot on hd stuff on ABC and sometimes the INHD channels. But I never see them in very fast moving scenes on dvd's. ABC seems to be the worst, don't know why. During the final episode of Empire it looked really good until the fight scenes then it would fall apart only to return to looking good after the fast action. That doesn't appear on some of the other hd channels and it doesn't appear on dvd's at all.
I believe that this is caused by the source of the signal and not the TV. After reading all these forums, I can see that everyone has different issues with their signal and not there TV per say. However, some cheap TV's, have some major problems that can cause your input signal source to be all messed up. IE, if the TV does not process the signal to seperate the video and audio properly and then to sync them up again. Some TV's cant handle this very well.

How happy is everyone with their black levels so far, when viewing a good DVD or HD source?

Calbert... question... while I'm VERY happy with my black levels on the 6168, I've noticed (only occasionally) that I can't pick up much detail in the black/shadow areas. And sometimes the black areas get funky-looking with kind of a greyish pixelated smear. (Can you tell I'm not very technically-savvy?) Would this be source related or is this due to the contrast being set too high? I haven't changed any of the settings yet in the various modes, and I think I notice this most in the "Dynamic" mode, which I have been viewing during daylight.

Thanks!

This is my first HDTV so I am obviously an HD noob. I currently only receive 1 OTA HD network (NBC) and I see 3 different screen formats. I get 4:3 format during most commercials and local programming which I'm guessing is SD. I get some full screen 16:9 which is obviously HD as it is stunning. The third format is strange, it has a border all the way around, like it's letterboxed 4:3 but it appears to be better quality than the other 4:3 stuff. What is this third format?

Calbert... question... while I'm VERY happy with my black levels on the 6168, I've noticed (only occasionally) that I can't pick up much detail in the black/shadow areas. And sometimes the black areas get funky-looking with kind of a greyish pixelated smear. (Can you tell I'm not very technically-savvy?) Would this be source related or is this due to the contrast being set too high? I haven't changed any of the settings yet in the various modes, and I think I notice this most in the "Dynamic" mode, which I have been viewing during daylight.

Thanks!
Not to butt in, but I think that you should try changing the contrast and setting for the "Dynamic Mode", Start with that. You should be fine. I think the Contrast is set too high. I have to always play with these settings, no matter what TV brands I buy.

Samsung just called and they are going to exchange my new HL-R5668W for a new set. I really didn't want an exchange and would've preferred that it be repaired, but unfortunately there is no ETA on any of the parts that I needed. However, I have to say that Samsung customer service continues to be amazing! They sent a serviceman the day after I called about my problem (a white dot appears on the screen) and then ordered the exchange immediately once they were told that parts were not available. I do hope though that now that these sets are shipping in larger quantities, that they also begin to ship the significant parts for the sets (such as the light engine and the board).

The Qualia is the best, but feel how heavy it is. You need three people to lift it. It is so huge to. 70 inch, that wont fit in most rooms. It's heavier, it must be better. Well know fact. :confused:

They don't blow away as easier.

Any pictures of this? (PC browsing etc.)


See my post #2039 on page 67 for some pics of various PC applications.

This is my first HDTV so I am obviously an HD noob. I currently only receive 1 OTA HD network (NBC) and I see 3 different screen formats. I get 4:3 format during most commercials and local programming which I'm guessing is SD. I get some full screen 16:9 which is obviously HD as it is stunning. The third format is strange, it has a border all the way around, like it's letterboxed 4:3 but it appears to be better quality than the other 4:3 stuff. What is this third format?

Goob, I think what you're seeing is also SD, but it looks better when broadcast digitally over the air. I notice that more often than not, commercials look particularly terrible, but certain programming, like say the local news for example, looks better than the regular SD that I'm used to seeing. Perhaps it is just because it is digital.

Calbert... question... while I'm VERY happy with my black levels on the 6168, I've noticed (only occasionally) that I can't pick up much detail in the black/shadow areas. And sometimes the black areas get funky-looking with kind of a greyish pixelated smear. (Can you tell I'm not very technically-savvy?) Would this be source related or is this due to the contrast being set too high? I haven't changed any of the settings yet in the various modes, and I think I notice this most in the "Dynamic" mode, which I have been viewing during daylight.

Thanks!The "greyish pixelated smear" sounds more like a source/compression problem than anything else, as some HD sources I've watched exhibit artifacts that are visible in the blacks, while others offer up a gorgeous, uniform black. I feel that shadow detail is quite good, I was only commenting on the fact that black at times hasn't quite looked as dark as it could/should when viewing primarily dark scenes. This is a minor nitpick, as I do think that the blacks are a giant leap ahead over other microdisplay RPTVs I've seen.

FWIW, I haven't seen that much of a change in the picture quality by changing just the Contrast setting -- my experience has been that a reduction in Contrast helps reduce rainbows for me and makes it a bit easier on the eyes in low lighting.

As a number of us have begun reporting, Movie mode appears to be doing something different (and in my opinion better) with the picture than the other modes. I try to stay out of Dynamic, Standard and Custom when I can, as they seem to enhance artifacts and mess up the colors a bit. Move mode has by far given me the smoothest, most artifact-free picture, regardless of source. I simply up the contrast and brightness a bit for daytime viewing, and I'm quite happy with it.

I've been pondering this game lag issue and the PS2. I don't have any solutions for it, but I was thinking perhaps the PS3 will work better sense it's games are supposed to be 1080i natively over HDMI? This is total speculation since the console isn't out yet for quite a while. All I'm saying is just because the PS2 is being problematic, doesn't mean the next gen console will.

Also I'm pondering not buying a TV right now... I really do want a bigger TV just so I don't have to sit close to it, but telling my friends they can't play video games on it because of issues with the TV is unacceptable in my mind.

Is the lag only video lag, like we can fix it with the Receiver's Audio Delay setting? (I checked mine goes from 0-200ms). Or is this a controller and video resolution thing?

I'm going to check my video games out and see what modes they run in. If the major of them are 480i/480p then running them in GAME mode should be no problem?

- D

This is my first HDTV so I am obviously an HD noob. I currently only receive 1 OTA HD network (NBC) and I see 3 different screen formats. I get 4:3 format during most commercials and local programming which I'm guessing is SD. I get some full screen 16:9 which is obviously HD as it is stunning. The third format is strange, it has a border all the way around, like it's letterboxed 4:3 but it appears to be better quality than the other 4:3 stuff. What is this third format?
I believe that this is due to the input signal, not the TV. Try setting the TV to recieve all 16:9 formats. If not, try setting this on your Cable box. I have never heard of this problem before. It should not go back and forth while watching a program, this would annoy me completely.

Okay, I went back and took a closer look at the photos I took of AOTC on the HLR6168W and HLN617W. The picture is indeed somewhat sharper and black levels better on the 6168. I have posted a photo (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15988/size/big) showing this. If you look at Mace Windu's ear, his neck line, the white folds of his robe, and the metal pieces next to his face, you can clearly see the difference in sharpness.

RichNYAs far as I am concerned, after having seen a preproduction xx68 model in April and having been amazed, this floor model at BB was even better. Thanks for taking the time to provide a quality review for us - look forward to see your feedback once you have one in your home! Enjoy - HD Makes Sports viewing a whole new experience and even nature shows blow you away can't wait for that 6768 - where is it? :D

The "greyish pixelated smear" sounds more like a source/compression problem than anything else, as some HD sources I've watched exhibit artifacts that are visible in the blacks, while others offer up a gorgeous, uniform black. I feel that shadow detail is quite good, I was only commenting on the fact that black at times hasn't quite looked as dark as it could/should when viewing primarily dark scenes. This is a minor nitpick, as I do think that the blacks are a giant leap ahead over other microdisplay RPTVs I've seen.

FWIW, I haven't seen that much of a change in the picture quality by changing just the Contrast setting -- my experience has been that a reduction in Contrast helps reduce rainbows for me and makes it a bit easier on the eyes in low lighting.

As a number of us have begun reporting, Movie mode appears to be doing something different (and in my opinion better) with the picture than the other modes. I try to stay out of Dynamic, Standard and Custom when I can, as they seem to enhance artifacts and mess up the colors a bit. Move mode has by far given me the smoothest, most artifact-free picture, regardless of source. I simply up the contrast and brightness a bit for daytime viewing, and I'm quite happy with it.
You are right, Movie mode, I find to be the very best of black level and detail. For the day I use standard, but I lower the contrast level so the rainbow effect is gone. I even use Movie mode for watching foothball. That seems to be the setting for all my viewing purposes.

Sony updated the firmware for this player and most (if not all?) of those posting problems had the earlier firmware. The biggest problem was a malfunctioning tray (it wouldn't open). Also some reported disk read errors. I'm not saying that the player is perfect with the new firmware (make sure you have at least version 1.90), but it may have considerably fewer problems. On the positive side, if the player does work, it may provide the best picture of all the lower end DVD players for the 68 series DLPs.
My fireware is higher than 1.90, I have used all types of players on the same TV and the Sony 975 is the very best that I have seen. Onkyo also has a great DVD player, but no HDMI. I bought the 975 because it had the HDMI, not that many players on the market have an HDMI output. :) ;)

This is my first HDTV so I am obviously an HD noob. I currently only receive 1 OTA HD network (NBC) and I see 3 different screen formats. I get 4:3 format during most commercials and local programming which I'm guessing is SD. I get some full screen 16:9 which is obviously HD as it is stunning. The third format is strange, it has a border all the way around, like it's letterboxed 4:3 but it appears to be better quality than the other 4:3 stuff. What is this third format?

Your are in full screen 4:3 but the station is broadcasting 4:3 inside a 16:9 format.

Lee

I cannot imagine them not having the newest HDMI as I bought a 950 HD DVD and it came with the new HDMI cable which is capable of 8 channels. I believe the old version can only pass 2 channel sound - both would work but you want to maximize sound channels for 5.1 or > .

http://www.hdmi.org/index.asp

Check RAM - I just bought a high quality DVI-HDMI to link between my Comcast HD STB and the new 6768 yesterday and I think I paid about $38 for it. The new version has been approved since April 2004 if my memory is correct. The old version would work as legacy but could not pass higher than 2 channel I believe but could not imagine any manufacturer providing less than current standards in their connectivity. :)


Westa6969, from your post I remember (I think you said this) that the Sammy did not support 1080p. I did some more research and while the internal components probably do not support 1080p input I now know for a fact that for 1080P imput you need a "Type B" HDMI connector on the TV. The specification says for 1080P or higher you need that type of connector because of the increased bandwidth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Your are in full screen 4:3 but the station is broadcasting 4:3 inside a 16:9 format.

Lee

TV is set to 16:9 at all times.

My dopey brother and I each just ordered 6178's from onecall.com I promised them not to divulge the price, but let's just say it's very competitive with TVA, and they have them in stock. They generally ship the same day if ordered by 3:00pm PDT.

They are out of Spokane, and I've used them numerous times with only great things to report. When you call ask for Dax.

I'm stoked!!!

Rick

I can only get analog OTA channels like 4, 5, 23 etc while in PIP mode in smaller window. I am not able to watch digital OTA 4.1, 5.1, 23.1 etc (digita cbs, abc, nbc etc) in the smaller window?? Is this how everybody else have it?? Do I need to change any settings on the tv?? Am I doing something wrong??

Celestial ---- "Westa6969, from your post I remember (I think you said this) that the Sammy did not support 1080p."

I regret that I don't recall ever saying that unless I was quoting someone else as I don't own my 6768 yet and my Sharp Aquous is not 1080P. I believe it can be done via PC but I don't recall ever saying that unless you saw my arch nemesis Gazelle make that statement - that sounds like a Gazelle Statement to me and he's on my Ignore list for about 2 months now but I get a chuckle out of the bantor that goes back and forth with Gazelle and his anti-Samsung attitude.

One of the reasons I have the 1080P in my signature block is I truly believe it'll be available sooner than we think but for now I'll be perfectly happy with 1080i upconverted as it's pretty friggin awesome on my Sharp and it'll be AV Heaven when I get the 1080P. I think you are thinking of Gazelle or perhaps I had a dyslexic moment or taken out of context while typing. I believe in 1080P and it's potential but I'll take what I can get in the meantime at 1080i and be Happy! Thanks

TV is set to 16:9 at all times.

The other possibility is that the station is broadcasting a 4:3 SD upconvert that is letterboxed.

Lee

I can only get analog OTA channels like 4, 5, 23 etc while in PIP mode in smaller window. I am not able to watch digital OTA 4.1, 5.1, 23.1 etc (digita cbs, abc, nbc etc) in the smaller window?? Is this how everybody else have it?? Do I need to change any settings on the tv?? Am I doing something wrong??
The set only has one digital tuner. Thus, you can not have PIP with two digital channels.

I can only get analog OTA channels like 4, 5, 23 etc while in PIP mode in smaller window. I am not able to watch digital OTA 4.1, 5.1, 23.1 etc (digita cbs, abc, nbc etc) in the smaller window?? Is this how everybody else have it?? Do I need to change any settings on the tv?? Am I doing something wrong??

Probably not, there is only one NTSC and one ATSC receiver. Therefore, you can only display one of each at a time. Check the owners manual, there is a PIP table in it that shows what can and cannot be displayed.

Lee

The set only has one digital tuner. Thus, you can not have PIP with two digital channels.
Actually, even if you are watching a SD channel, the PIP channel (the one that is the smaller picture being viewed), can be a digital channel. The manual clearly indicates that the PIP source can not be a digitial channel and also can not be a channel being shown via HDMI (I don't recall about component).

Actually, even if you are watching a SD channel, the PIP channel (the one that is the smaller picture being viewed), can be a digital channel. The manual clearly indicates that the PIP source can not be a digitial channel and also can not be a channel being shown via HDMI (I don't recall about component).
XX78 User Manual Page 64 (bottom):
• Digital channels cannot be viewed in the PIP window.
• PIP is supported when the video source for the main picture is digital and the source for the
sub picture is analog.
• PIP is supported even when both the main and the sub pictures are analog.
For more information, refer to the PIP Settings table on page 66.

XX78 User Manual Page 64 (bottom):
• Digital channels cannot be viewed in the PIP window.
• PIP is supported when the video source for the main picture is digital and the source for the
sub picture is analog.
• PIP is supported even when both the main and the sub pictures are analog.
For more information, refer to the PIP Settings table on page 66.


Get a DishNetwork 942 HD receiver/dvr and you can have HD PIP on any HD set...

I believe that this is due to the input signal, not the TV. Try setting the TV to recieve all 16:9 formats. If not, try setting this on your Cable box. I have never heard of this problem before. It should not go back and forth while watching a program, this would annoy me completely.


What he is seeing is that some SD programs show a movie or program in letterbox mode, i.e., with black bars on the top and bottom. When such a SD program is simply shoved into the 16:9 HD format, you see the black (sometimes gray) bars on the sides because it is a 4:3 program, and the black bars on the top and bottom because it is a letterboxed SD program.

One would hope that the engineers(?)/operators would be able to show the letterboxed SD source in a 16:9 format without all the bars on top, bottom, and sides! But, we can always hope!

If you have both a cable card and a STB could you get both PIP in high def?

My dopey brother and I each just ordered 6178's from onecall.com I promised them not to divulge the price, but let's just say it's very competitive with TVA, and they have them in stock. They generally ship the same day if ordered by 3:00pm PDT.

They are out of Spokane, and I've used them numerous times with only great things to report. When you call ask for Dax.

I'm stoked!!!

Rick
They are higher price than www.vanns.com
Are they in stock? The country is on backorder, how can onecall have them in stock.

What he is seeing is that some SD programs show a movie or program in letterbox mode, i.e., with black bars on the top and bottom. When such a SD program is simply shoved into the 16:9 HD format, you see the black (sometimes gray) bars on the sides because it is a 4:3 program, and the black bars on the top and bottom because it is a letterboxed SD program.

One would hope that the engineers(?)/operators would be able to show the letterboxed SD source in a 16:9 format without all the bars on top, bottom, and sides! But, we can always hope!
OK, you are right. That is the movie format. Oh, that is what you mean but the black bars.

onecall.com is $600 more than TVA (powerbuy)... so i dont think that qualifies as "competitive" in price

They are higher price than www.vanns.com
Are they in stock? The country is on backorder, how can onecall have them in stock.

I paid less than Vann's sale price. And, yes, they are in stock. They're shipping today (same day ordered).

I'm assuming the country is on allocation, which is different than backorder.

onecall.com is $600 more than TVA (powerbuy)... so i dont think that qualifies as "competitive" in price

Read my post again. Does it lead you to think I ordered online, or spoke to a sales person to negotiate a deal? That's why I suggested you speak to Dax.

I have no affiliation whatsoever with onecall.com, beyond being a satisfied customer for over 10 years.

TVA is NOT the only reputable dealer offering discounts on these TV's. I got the manager of the Wilsonville Fry's to knock $500 off their price on the 6168, and they also have them in stock.

So, if waiting's your thing...

onecall.com is $600 more than TVA (powerbuy)... so i dont think that qualifies as "competitive" in price
YOU ARE RIGHT, AND NOTE THAT ONECALL IS $500.00 MORE THAN WWW.VANNS.COM

Ah I gotcha... so what did you say to him? "Dax, I want the 6178 but can't afford $4499... what can you do for me?"

Or did you just ask them to match the TVA power buy?

Read my post again. Does it lead you to think I ordered online, or spoke to a sales person to negotiate a deal? That's why I suggested you speak to Dax.

I have no affiliation whatsoever with onecall.com, beyond being a satisfied customer for over 10 years.

TVA is NOT the only reputable dealer offering discounts on these TV's. I got the manager of the Wilsonville Fry's to knock $500 off their price on the 6168, and they also have them in stock.

So, if waiting's your thing...
Strange to hear this, because Fry's dont have them in stock at all in CA. They have the older models. Are you sure about that? TVA is not the only rep, that I agree with. I called Vanns to make my deal too and I got the 6178W for $3,000.00 no shipping or tax either. BOY, I Know how to deal. Try to get a price like that.

Read my post again. Does it lead you to think I ordered online, or spoke to a sales person to negotiate a deal? That's why I suggested you speak to Dax.

I have no affiliation whatsoever with onecall.com, beyond being a satisfied customer for over 10 years.

TVA is NOT the only reputable dealer offering discounts on these TV's. I got the manager of the Wilsonville Fry's to knock $500 off their price on the 6168, and they also have them in stock.

So, if waiting's your thing...
That didnt lead me to beileve that you ordered online, however, when you add something to your cart, the price goes down a little. I do hate waiting, but it sometimes can be fun to wait to read all these forums before you get your set. :) I am having fun in the meantime. ;)

Stallion... $3k for the 6178?? wow.... PM me your "secret" :) I'm bidding on one of those from a local person who's selling it offline, but it wouldnt come with a warranty, so that price for a new warrantied 6178 would sell me in an instant.

Stallion, I think you have to call them and talk price. Not the listed price on online ordering. Like buying a car.

Stallion... $3k for the 6178?? wow.... PM me your "secret" :) I'm bidding on one of those from a local person who's selling it offline, but it wouldnt come with a warranty, so that price for a new warrantied 6178 would sell me in an instant.
:) Yes, I even get a warranty for one year like normal. This is a brand new set in the box from overseas where they make them. www.Vanns.com only sells new items in the original packaging. I have done business with them in the past and I really think that they messed up on the price when I first ordered the 6178W in May27th. :cool: I placed the order online and then called my rep. I am a big time buyer for 6 years and I guess when they pulled my record, they gave me the deal, or in fact, they messed up on the price and then relaized it and changed it later. Either way I got it for $3,000.00 including the $150.00 "white glove service" to install this in my home. :D I buy everything from them and spend over $100,000 a year with my buisness. This might be the "TRICK", ;) I never ask them. I am getting a steal from them. Thank God. :)

Stallion, I think you have to call them and talk price. Not the listed price on online ordering. Like buying a car.
:D Your right in a way and then I called. When I added it to the cart, Way back when, it showed $3,500.00 that was all. :D Now it is $3,999.99 I think that they messed up for a short time, Like one week only. It did say on sale. Strange too, but then when I called they lowered me to $3,000.00 after looking at my account. :)

YOU ARE RIGHT, AND NOTE THAT ONECALL IS $500.00 MORE THAN WWW.VANNS.COM

What's up with the shouting?

Listen, I'm not trying to create any dissention within this fine thread. My intent was to help those that want a fair deal, and don't want to wait 3 or more weeks.

Simply stated; I got a great deal, and will have my set in 1-3 days. Also, I didn't have to get on no stinking waiting list, and wait my turn.

One more time: I promised I would not divulge the price I paid, but it is NOT the Web price.

Those interested in negotiating should use the Vann's and TVA prices as a point of referrence :)

Stallion... $3k for the 6178?? wow.... PM me your "secret" :) I'm bidding on one of those from a local person who's selling it offline, but it wouldnt come with a warranty, so that price for a new warrantied 6178 would sell me in an instant.
:D I heard the cost to make these sets are around $2,500.00 because it is a new item, but I seriously doubt that it cost that much, maybe $1,900.00 the most. Like anything that is new, it cost a lot until the price of production drops. That is fine with me, $3K is nothing for this set. Oh! Dont forgot I get all my HDI and DVI Monster M 4Meter cables for free. :)

does anyone know how long the wait is right now for vanns.com to ship out these sets?

That didnt lead me to beileve that you ordered online, however, when you add something to your cart, the price goes down a little. I do hate waiting, but it sometimes can be fun to wait to read all these forums before you get your set. :) I am having fun in the meantime. ;)

Man, that $3000 you're quoting will start a fire here :)

I love reading the forums as well. I use that, and my senses to make most of my buying decisions. However, once that desicion is made, I hate to wait :cool:

does anyone know how long the wait is right now for vanns.com to ship out these sets?
I heard about two weeks the most. Actually call them, they were suppose to get 100 sets in this week. They already shipped out 100 last week. They are doing good, with this.

Man, that $3000 you're quoting will start a fire here :)

I love reading the forums as well. I use that, and my senses to make most of my buying decisions. However, once that desicion is made, I hate to wait :cool:
Sorry to all, not to cause heartache to all my people here. I think that being honest and truthful on these forums will help people and not drive them away. Maybe in 6 months the price would be around $3,000.00

Strange to hear this, because Fry's dont have them in stock at all in CA. They have the older models. Are you sure about that? TVA is not the only rep, that I agree with. I called Vanns to make my deal too and I got the 6178W for $3,000.00 no shipping or tax either. BOY, I Know how to deal. Try to get a price like that.

Some of the CA Fry's have/had them in stock based on what I read in the powerbuy thread. The Wilsonville, OR store has them. My brother based his buying decsion on seeing it there, and I called them to confirm.

Some of the CA Fry's have/had them in stock based on what I read in the powerbuy thread. The Wilsonville, OR store has them. My brother based his buying decsion on seeing it there, and I called them to confirm.
Strange I was at the Frys store yesterday and they said that they didnt get any in yet at all. Floor models? I will check, thanks for the info.

Strange I was at the Frys store yesterday and they said that they didnt get any in yet at all. Floor models? I will check, thanks for the info.

Here's the number for the Wilsonville Fry's TV manager. His name is Cory.

(503) 570-6050

Some of the CA Fry's have/had them in stock based on what I read in the powerbuy thread. The Wilsonville, OR store has them. My brother based his buying decsion on seeing it there, and I called them to confirm.
:) :D :cool: :p ;) :) :eek: GOOD NEWS TO ALL, MY TV IS HERE IN CA. SHOULD GET IT THIS WEEK. THE TRUCK JUST CALLED ME. COOL. :)
CHRIS

Here's the number for the Wilsonville Fry's TV manager. His name is Cory.

(503) 570-6050
OK, that is up north. Nothing down in LA?

Okay, I went back and took a closer look at the photos I took of AOTC on the HLR6168W and HLN617W. The picture is indeed somewhat sharper and black levels better on the 6168. I have posted a photo (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15988/size/big) showing this. If you look at Mace Windu's ear, his neck line, the white folds of his robe, and the metal pieces next to his face, you can clearly see the difference in sharpness.
I don't see much difference. I am especially surprised not to see the improved contrast and blacks. Maybe you should get ISF calibrated.

Speaking of ISF, has anyone gotten their new Sammy professionally calibrated?
I know with my HLN it made quite the difference.

We have had our 6168 (bought through the Power Buy) for two weeks now and it is incredible!

I am stunned by the PQ -- both HD and SD. I had seen the prototype sets at CES in January so the HD quality (bright, clear colors, good dark scene detail and blacks; almost 3-D impact) is what I expected. It's unbelievable that this quality (1080p, 5000:1 contrast, etc.) and form factor (only 18" deep and light enough for my wife to help lift, unlike our last direct-view sets!) are available for the Power Buy price.

What has surprised me the most is the SD quality of the DIRECTV feeds (from our HD DIRECTV TiVo DVR feeding through the HDMI connection). We don't use any trick display modes (Panoramic, or any of the stretch modes) and very few artifacts are noticeable, even when I'm looking for them. Discovery, SciFi, etc. are all great! Pry_to_me had reported that his "Picture and sound is amazing for HD broadcasts. The only complaint I have is the picture quality with standard television, which is god awful." I can only guess that the problem is with his cable source (analog?) because I was just amazed by the SD quality.

I'll look forward to trying some self-calibration once the bulb burns in a bit, but right out of the box this set is everything I hoped for, and even more!

I don't read the thread for one day and I am at least 5 pages behind! Well, I see that I didn't miss much. Most of the posts are concerning who saved a nickel. Ok, several nickels.

Redram - I am very interested in more reviews from you. I am interested in the SD quality as I know the DVD and HD quality will be just fine.

When you get time, would post more info about your setup, model & size, viewing distance, cabling, AVR, speakers, etc.?

Thanks..........

Welcome to the "Samsung 1080p DISCOUNT PRICING Thread!" :D

You're right. Sorry about being a bit off-topic.

My 6178 shipped today, and hopefully, I'll have something technically useful to contribute soon.

Just saw 56" Samsung 1080p at Fry's in the Atlanta area, outstanding DTV HD picture via component input...........but there was some artifacts (black specs ) in background......but it was on all sets...probably the source (I hope).....No other source connected you could chose, but sales rep they are in process of connecting more to sets.
Price=$4090.00

Yea! My 6168 is installed. Works fine, no problems. I watched it for about 30 minutes before my parents took over and I went upstairs to watch what I have on my Tivo. (only five more weeks until their house is done...)

PQ: OK, not as good as I expected, but I've just been watching SD stuff so far (or SD upconverted to HD - and mostly local channels so I could have ingress issues). The blacks are black though, its like watching my parents CRT-based RPTV. I definately need to find a DVD player that passes BTB.

I havent got around to watching DVDs because my DVD player doesnt have component out (its an old old old Apex DVD player). I'm probably going to get component cables for my PS2 and the DVD remote kit and use it as my DVD player for now.

Other notes: The single tuner is picking up both NTSC and ATSC over my coax. The downside is that the channels are everywhere (though this isnt really Samsungs fault, I'm going to have to talk to the cable guy I know, see if they can pass all the subchannel/remapped channel information).

My analog CBS and digital CBS show up right next to each other, which is nice, but my digital SD Fox and NBC show up in the 120s (because thats where they're at in the digital cable system), and for some unknown reason, my digital SD ABC doesnt show up at all. Only channel CBS and PBS show up in HD next to their analog counterpart. Oh well, I'll probably get cablecard this weekend.

It also picked up channels that were recognized as weak or scrambled and added them anyways. Why do I need to pickup scrambled signals for? It should have ignored them.

Get a DishNetwork 942 HD receiver/dvr and you can have HD PIP on any HD set...

A stupid question. Does the dual tuner have two outputs for each tuner or is it one cable and it can carry both signals to the TV so I can have PIP?

Reason I ask is the a 2 HDMI RPTV is in my future and I was hoping to use one of the HDMI ports for a DVD player.

Thxs,
Ski

I ordered my 5678 from VANNS for $3,599,no tax and received it two days later.Very happy here with this great picture quality set.

My dopey brother and I each just ordered 6178's from onecall.com I promised them not to divulge the price, but let's just say it's very competitive with TVA, and they have them in stock. They generally ship the same day if ordered by 3:00pm PDT.

They are out of Spokane, and I've used them numerous times with only great things to report. When you call ask for Dax.

I'm stoked!!!

Rick

Thanks for the information Rick - I am sure others will be interested. I did check their return policy though here are the terms:

Non-Returnable Items
OneCall is unable to accept returns of the following items:
Televisions over 20 inches :(
Cut-to-length audio or video cable
Special order merchandise
Satellite receivers
Projection bulbs
Film
Any product with a service activation feature
Audio/Video furniture

Here is TVA's return policy

TVA has a 30 day five star program and return policy.
http://www.tvauthority.com/5starprogram.asp

DOA - TVA will replace.
No restocking Fees
30 Day risk fee policy
lifetime technical support
etc.

For those who are interested in the XX78 models - Onecall does indeed have the 56 and 61 in stock (They do not carry the XX68 series models)

I think the peace of mind of having a 30 day trial and return policy is worth paying the sales tax and continued wait through TVA. Plus because I am getting the 68 series - the cost savings ends up being a wash.

(Free if I win the drawing). :eek:

TL

^Seems like TVA is the best online retailers for HDTVs

FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS A COMPUTER UP AND RUNNING ON THEIR SAMSUNG **8W SET THROUGH VGA :


1. WHAT vga CABLE ARE YOU USING AND WHERE DID YOU GET IT???????

2. SHOULD I GET AN UXVGA cable which (I HEARD) supports higher resolutions????



THERE HAS SOME POSTS ABOUT EXSPENSIVE VGA CABLES NOT WORKING AND I WANT TO AVOID THE SAME MISTAKES. I HAVE NEVER HOOKED UP A TV VIA VGA.

I have a brand spanking new 5668 and I love it :D
New to HD but I'm hooked on Discovery HD now.
I do see lip sync so I will be upgrading to eliminate that issue.

As I'm new to HD and this is my first HD TV I can only honestly say that HD content is spectacular :)

Plan to hook up the xbox tomorrow to see if notice button lag/

Brian

New to to HD question about lip sync. I've notice that the lip sync varies within the same source. I'm watching spider man 2 and it is close to being in sync and then not. I plan to purchase the Felston to adjust the timing. Can I set a 100ms delay and be happy with that that? Can I set a 100ms delay and if the lip sync varies what happens?
Brian

Fry's Electronics in SF Bay Area has the new models in just about every store. I watched 6168 today in Concord. I was simply stunned with PQ despite very inept technicians. Folks, to my eyes, the difference between this set and ANY other set in the store is simply incredible. This includes all plasmas and LCD sets that they have on display. I was watching Discovery on Dish via component. There was a 6167 right next to the new model, as well as 5087 Captain Kirk and several JVC, Sony, and Mitsubishi sets. IMO and based on my viewing, it's simply not worth spending any more cycles debating whether these 1080p sets represent an improvement over previous Samsung or other 720p sets. The difference is just stunning, immediately obvious, and truly remarkable. No, I am sorry, it's not just a tad better or too close to tell. It is much, much better (at least to my eyes) in every category that I care about, including contrast, sharpness, natural color reproduction, lack of artifacts, etc. I've been visiting this store for many months, comparing TVs and dealing with usually dreadful settings that in-store technicians leave on. The new models have the best picture quality I have ever seen, which means that my search for the new TV is over.

On a separate note, the total lack of care displayed by Fry's personnel when connecting TVs and moving them around was shocking. It made me cringe. I watched in amazement as they dragged and dropped TVs that were still on, yanking the power and component cables out as they got stretched to limits. The treatment this TV received on the floor at Fry's could be rougher than any potential abuse during shipment.

New to to HD question about lip sync. I've notice that the lip sync varies within the same source. I'm watching spider man 2 and it is close to being in sync and then not. I plan to purchase the Felston to adjust the timing. Can I set a 100ms delay and be happy with that that? Can I set a 100ms delay and if the lip sync varies what happens?
Brian

If the lag varies within the source itself the Felston will be worthless to you unless
you want to adjust the delay every 10 minutes.

To reiterate, I see no delay via my DVD player and no delay on anything
but a few HD channels which vary from channel to channel and from time
to time.

I will concede that there may be a 4 frame (64ms) delay on everything but I typically
don't read lips while watching TV :-) If you are noticing a constant delay
then the Felston will be able to adjust this out for you.

IMO and based on my viewing, it's simply not worth spending any more cycles debating whether these 1080p sets represent an improvement over previous Samsung or other 720p sets. The difference is just stunning, immediately obvious, and truly remarkable. No, I am sorry, it's not just a tad better or too close to tell. It is much, much better (at least to my eyes) in every category that I care about, including contrast, sharpness, natural color reproduction, lack of artifacts, etc. I've been visiting this store for many months, comparing TVs and dealing with usually dreadful settings that in-store technicians leave on. The new models have the best picture quality I have ever seen, which means that my search for the new TV is over.
.

Thanks! No arguments from me :-) I would find it impossible to understand
how anyone could not see it your way if it wasn't for seeing the set for the first
time at Fry's Anaheim when the only source they had was rabbit ears in
a very metal intensive part of the building...

This set is absolutely frig'in amazing - absolutely no question about it - and
Samsung via the AVS / TVA PB is practically giving them away!

If the lag varies within the source itself the Felston will be worthless to you unless
you want to adjust the delay every 10 minutes.

To reiterate, I see no delay via my DVD player and no delay on anything
but a few HD channels which vary from channel to channel and from time
to time.

I will concede that there may be a 4 frame (64ms) delay on everything but I typically
don't read lips while watching TV :-) If you are noticing a constant delay
then the Felston will be able to adjust this out for you.


I am going to leave everything as is and see... my new cablebox is updating. :)

Thank you. It looks like I will purchase the felston and introduce a audio lag as I continue to see/hear a mistmatch. Love my 5668! Damn nice picture from comcast cable!
Brian

New to to HD question about lip sync. I've notice that the lip sync varies within the same source. I'm watching spider man 2 and it is close to being in sync and then not. I plan to purchase the Felston to adjust the timing. Can I set a 100ms delay and be happy with that that? Can I set a 100ms delay and if the lip sync varies what happens?
Brian

You probably can just set a delay and be happy. You can only detect the problem if the cummulative error is greater than your threshold.

So if your threshold is 100ms and the TV has a consistent 64ms error, you'll see a source problem of 36ms. But if you remove that consistent 64ms error with your AVR/felston then the source problem needs to be 100ms to be detected.

Fry's Electronics in SF Bay Area has the new models in just about every store. I watched 6168 today in Concord. I was simply stunned with PQ despite very inept technicians. Folks, to my eyes, the difference between this set and ANY other set in the store is simply incredible. This includes all plasmas and LCD sets that they have on display. I was watching Discovery on Dish via component. There was a 6167 right next to the new model, as well as 5087 Captain Kirk and several JVC, Sony, and Mitsubishi sets. IMO and based on my viewing, it's simply not worth spending any more cycles debating whether these 1080p sets represent an improvement over previous Samsung or other 720p sets. The difference is just stunning, immediately obvious, and truly remarkable. No, I am sorry, it's not just a tad better or too close to tell. It is much, much better (at least to my eyes) in every category that I care about, including contrast, sharpness, natural color reproduction, lack of artifacts, etc. I've been visiting this store for many months, comparing TVs and dealing with usually dreadful settings that in-store technicians leave on. The new models have the best picture quality I have ever seen, which means that my search for the new TV is over.

On a separate note, the total lack of care displayed by Fry's personnel when connecting TVs and moving them around was shocking. It made me cringe. I watched in amazement as they dragged and dropped TVs that were still on, yanking the power and component cables out as they got stretched to limits. The treatment this TV received on the floor at Fry's could be rougher than any potential abuse during shipment.


Yeah, go to a Magnolia my friend. You can watch the 1080p sets next to each other. The Sammy's and the Sony Qualia set look marvelous. But... I am affraid not as much better as they appear at this Fry's you visited... at least not to me. I still found the Plasmas to be more pleasing despite their inferior sharpness. (Fujitsu, Panasonic and Pioneer plasmas at least)

The great price point of the 61" has me thinking though. $4k for a great 50" plasma vs. $3400 for a great 61" 1080p RPT... argh it is driving me nuts.

You probably can just set a delay and be happy. You can only detect the problem if the cummulative error is greater than your threshold.

So if your threshold is 100ms and the TV has a consistent 64ms error, you'll see a source problem of 36ms. But if you remove that consistent 64ms error with your AVR/felston then the source problem needs to be 100ms to be detected.

Damn HD is nice. I'm staying up all night :eek:

Expect I can adjust for the lip sync.

Brian

Thank you. It looks like I will purchase the felston and introduce a audio lag as I continue to see/hear a mistmatch. Love my 5668! Damn nice picture from comcast cable!
Brian

Whcich DVD player or Comcast STB are you seeing the sync issues with???

Whcich DVD player or Comcast STB are you seeing the sync issues with???

Motorla model DCT 5100 from Comcast. PIC quality is nice! Need to work on the sound.

Brian Beilmann
:)

I started on HD tonight and noticed lip sync right of the bat. No lip sync errors now at 11:50pm. Oops. damn I see lip sync off again.
I'm going to shut up and enjoy my tv now :)
Brian

Okay, I went back and took a closer look at the photos I took of AOTC on the HLR6168W and HLN617W. The picture is indeed somewhat sharper and black levels better on the 6168. I have posted a photo (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15988/size/big) showing this. If you look at Mace Windu's ear, his neck line, the white folds of his robe, and the metal pieces next to his face, you can clearly see the difference in sharpness.

Thanks for the new photos.

I've been looking at them in photoshop and have these conclusions.

The blacks are definately better. Although they may not be "CRT" black, they're easily black enough where is is no longer an issue. :) Threre is no longer that noise in the blacks either. Look at that black area above his right shoulder. Darker and less grainy. Now take a look at robe on his left chest, it doesn't go murky brown/black. Its got color. So what I'm seeing here is that blacks are blacker without crushing other low level information.

As to resolution, I don't see added sharpness as much as more smoothness to areas in the robe. Again, look at the robe on his right chest. Doesn't look as rough. Taking screenshots are particularly tough. Its entirely possible that detail exist there that doesn't transfer through a digital camera and resizing for displaying on the internet. Most digital cameras have anti aliasing filters that can soften the detail. If you want to try it again, photograph yoda's face in one of the early chapters of AOTC when he's in chancellor palpadine's office. Usually those cracks in his face and the eyes will tell more about detail.

So how's the HTPC on a 1080p TV?

I am in NYC and someone said there is a Sammy Store in NYC. What is the address?

b_beilmann: how do you have all of your gear connected to your TV?

I am in NYC and someone said there is a Sammy Store in NYC. What is the address?

Time Warner Complex...Colombus Circle.

I am in NYC and someone said there is a Sammy Store in NYC. What is the address?
It is in the new Time Warner building at Columbus Circle. On the third floor. But they don't have the 1080p models yet. They expect one to come in the middle of this month.

If the lag varies within the source itself the Felston will be worthless to you unless
you want to adjust the delay every 10 minutes.

To reiterate, I see no delay via my DVD player and no delay on anything
but a few HD channels which vary from channel to channel and from time
to time.

I will concede that there may be a 4 frame (64ms) delay on everything but I typically
don't read lips while watching TV :-) If you are noticing a constant delay
then the Felston will be able to adjust this out for you.


I THINK the lip sync delay is an sum of at least two items. Video processing time (always there but variable) and signal source out of syns (could be + or -). The Felstron could remove the processing delay (TV input dependent) thus reducing the delay and make it more tolerable.

The delay is a fact of life but most viewers don't see it. They can hear it with the echo test . I'll go with a new AVR with adjustable delays for each input. But, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

This thread is awesome as I am looking into a HLR5668W and the feedback here has been great I can't wait to go out and see one of these babies. I guess the only concern I am seeing is the Lip Sync issue is it really that bad?

Yeah, go to a Magnolia my friend. You can watch the 1080p sets next to each other. The Sammy's and the Sony Qualia set look marvelous. But... I am affraid not as much better as they appear at this Fry's you visited... at least not to me. I still found the Plasmas to be more pleasing despite their inferior sharpness. (Fujitsu, Panasonic and Pioneer plasmas at least)

The great price point of the 61" has me thinking though. $4k for a great 50" plasma vs. $3400 for a great 61" 1080p RPT... argh it is driving me nuts.

I have yet to see a Plasma picture that I like. The Samsung 68 series blows a away the picture of all the plasmas I have seen. Every plasma I look at I always see the pixel structure and it is annoying. I can't see pixel structure on the 68 series unless I get very close to the screen, unlike plasma which I can see at normal viewing distance.

steve: if it doesn't bother you, it doesn't bother you. However, if it does, it is REALLY bad. Go take a look and see which category you fall in.

steve: if it doesn't bother you, it doesn't bother you. However, if it does, it is REALLY bad. Go take a look and see which category you fall in.

On a scale of 1-10 and 10 being the worst where do you think it falls? It probably will bother my wife more than me which as we all know is not a good thing.

Did everyone purchase the extended warranty of this box as well I am always up in the air on this.

Thanks in advance for your replys this is great source of information.

How do thes look against the MITS 1080p sets?

Does it make any sense to calibrate the DLPs with DVE before the bulb "burns in"? Also, how long before the bulb is considered to be "burned in"?

My 5668 will be here tomorrow!! I was #43 in the que...Ordered on 6/19/05.

thanks

FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS A COMPUTER UP AND RUNNING ON THEIR SAMSUNG **8W SET THROUGH VGA :


1. WHAT vga CABLE ARE YOU USING AND WHERE DID YOU GET IT???????

2. SHOULD I GET AN UXVGA cable which (I HEARD) supports higher resolutions????



THERE HAS SOME POSTS ABOUT EXSPENSIVE VGA CABLES NOT WORKING AND I WANT TO AVOID THE SAME MISTAKES. I HAVE NEVER HOOKED UP A TV VIA VGA.

I initially purchased an expensive VGA cable from RamElectronics that was billed as an "HDTV VGA cable". It gave me the shrunken display issue. I went to a local computer store and bought the only VGA cable they had - a no frills 10' VGA cable for $15. Works great.

So how's the HTPC on a 1080p TV?

I really like mine. I just wish HTPCs could do HD. After seeing HD for the first time, I'm tempted to dump my HTPC for a D* HD Tivo. I did notice that SD from the HTPC is not as good as SD straight from the STB but I can live with that for now. Computer related stuff looks fantastic when using VGA.

:) Yes, I even get a warranty for one year like normal. This is a brand new set in the box from overseas where they make them. www.Vanns.com only sells new items in the original packaging. I have done business with them in the past and I really think that they messed up on the price when I first ordered the 6178W in May27th. :cool: I placed the order online and then called my rep. I am a big time buyer for 6 years and I guess when they pulled my record, they gave me the deal, or in fact, they messed up on the price and then relaized it and changed it later. Either way I got it for $3,000.00 including the $150.00 "white glove service" to install this in my home. :D I buy everything from them and spend over $100,000 a year with my buisness. This might be the "TRICK", ;) I never ask them. I am getting a steal from them. Thank God. :)

These sets are not made overseas.

Thanks
As to resolution, I don't see added sharpness as much as more smoothness to areas in the robe. Again, look at the robe on his right chest. Doesn't look as rough. Taking screenshots are particularly tough. Its entirely possible that detail exist there that doesn't transfer through a digital camera and resizing for displaying on the internet. Most digital cameras have anti aliasing filters that can soften the detail. If you want to try it again, photograph yoda's face in one of the early chapters of AOTC when he's in chancellor palpadine's office. Usually those cracks in his face and the eyes will tell more about detail.

The other thing to remember is that we're talking about a DVD source here, which is fundamentally a 480 source. Sure it's upconverted and whatnot, but it's still not "true" HD. It's not too surprising that the differences in PQ are not exactly mindblowing, although you're all definetly right that you would think a drastically improved contrast ratio and the smoothness gained from the higher native res and wobulation would be more evident irrespective of the original source resolution. Still, this picture comparison is pretty cool, and much thanks for the effort in putting it together for everyone

What would be a *killer* picture comparison is something like DiscoveryHD. I'm not sure how much of a difference the 1080p set will have on 720p channels, but i'm very curious to see how it handles 1080i channels in comparison to the 720p DLPs. That might be a good clue as to how the sets will differ in performance on things like HD-DVD.

This thread is awesome as I am looking into a HLR5668W and the feedback here has been great I can't wait to go out and see one of these babies. I guess the only concern I am seeing is the Lip Sync issue is it really that bad?

Its source material problem. I rarely see it, but saw it on cable for the first time the other night. A few hours later I checked discoveryHD channel and the lip sync problem was gone again.

Its source material problem. I rarely see it, but saw it on cable for the first time the other night. A few hours later I checked discoveryHD channel and the lip sync problem was gone again.

Mike thanks for the reply. So how do you like the TV so far?

Anyone know what the bit color depth resolution is for the 68w series? 32-bit? or higher?

Strange I was at the Frys store yesterday and they said that they didnt get any in yet at all. Floor models? I will check, thanks for the info.

All of the Fry's got at least 2 units and some got 3. That doesn't mean you will necessarily see them. The Burbank Fry's kept them in their receiving area for two weeks. I had to prod them every day to get them to put one on dispay.

Lee

For the lip sync issue, those of you with surround setups, you might not necessarily be able to introduce a delay within the receiver, but if you have the ability to specify the "distance" between the speakers and the listening area, moving the center channel "closer" (not physically, but on the receiver setting the distance to 2 feet or something) will automatically delay that speaker a little bit to compensate... that could help your lip sync issue.