I am interested in the concept of an HTPC (DVD,PVR, CD) one box solution, but haven't been able to find any reviews of the "CD" sound potential attainable for music (compared to a mid/high stand alone CD player-such as a modded Jolida 100 tube player). I've looked over the offerings at 2 Parts Fusion ("flagship" model 702) and also discovered an M-Audio soundcard (the Audiophile) which, though pricey, might give very good-excellent sound quality. Anyone had a HTPC/CD head to head music comparison? Any experience with the M-Audio card? Thanks in advance- Tim.

I am interested in the concept of an HTPC (DVD,PVR, CD) one box solution, but haven't been able to find any reviews of the "CD" sound potential attainable for music (compared to a mid/high stand alone CD player-such as a modded Jolida 100 tube player). I've looked over the offerings at 2 Parts Fusion ("flagship" model 702) and also discovered an M-Audio soundcard (the Audiophile) which, though pricey, might give very good-excellent sound quality. Anyone had a HTPC/CD head to head music comparison? Any experience with the M-Audio card? Thanks in advance- Tim.

Timmy,

If you want high-end sound from an HTPC; you can always take the digital output from the
sound card and input that to a standalone DAC, and then to the rest of the system.

Instead of doing the D->A conversion in the HTPC and outputting analog to the preamp / amps;
back off one level and relieve the HTPC of the D->A step and take the digital out of the HTPC.

It all depends on whether you are willing to use an audiophile quality DAC in lieu of the
soundcard.

The LynxTwo-B (http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxtwo.html) and RME Hammerfall DSP (http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/hdsp9632.htm) are two popular cards for the HTPC music nut crowd.

Instead of doing the D->A conversion in the HTPC and outputting analog to the preamp / amps;
back off one level and relieve the HTPC of the D->A step and take the digital out of the HTPC.


This will work, unless you believe only SACD/DVD-A can achieve the needed quality:
there is no computer solution to SACD and only analog solution for DVD-A.

Diogen.

Another one that is very popular..

Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1LT 8 (7.1) Channels

Here are few more that are very popular..

Chaintech AV-710 8 (7.1) Channels
Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1LT 8 (7.1) Channels
HDA Digital X-Mystique 7.1 GOLD Sound Card

I think the HDA card actually has a dedicated thread lurking around here somewhere.

FWIW, unless you're talking digital output, I don't think any of those (save the Prodigy) would qualify as "high-end".

Stranger,

You are correct and I will edit my post.

You can do Digital Room Correction with a PC. You need a inexpensive measurement mic, and 2 or 3 hours of you time to set it up.

Lifts HTPC above all CD-players IMO.

http://drc.wildgooses.com/index.php/Main_Page

Thanks everyone for the informative replies, I'll check out the cards mentioned and investigate the outboard DAC idea (hadn't considered that) -- Tim.

For everything you want to know about true high end audio from a PC.. visit this forum

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/bbs.html

If you want high end analog out of your HTPC I suggest you opt for more professional solutions like the firewire MOTU devices.

I suppose you mean MOTU and I'd say stay away from it ;)
IMO the best choice is the lynx TwoB.

Yes I mean MOTU (corrected it in the original posting).
You stay away from it? Well certainly your prerogative.
But realize that most audio productions are either done with MOTU or ProTools hardware.

I use a Lynx 22 AES EBU From m HTPC to Theta CB 3 Processor -it is the best sound card.

I use a Lynx 22 AES EBU From m HTPC to Theta CB 3 Processor -it is the best sound card.

Do you notice the Windows resampling? I can notice it with a M-Audio revolution.

If you are looking to use outbord DACs or to otherwise maximize PC audio quality, Google on the following terms:

"bit perfect", ASIO, "kernal streaming", kmixer

Your questions will be answered...and if you go with such a solution, a cheap soundcard like the Chaintek AV-710 configured for bit-perfect will give essentially the same quality digital output as any of the esoteric solutions mentioned. Most PC audio purists conclude that bit-perfect output into a quality outboard DAC is superior to any (stereo) solution using sound card DACs.

If, however, you plan to use the soundcard's DACs, then a Lynx or RME card will be a better choice.

doug

.... and don't ignore the X-Fi Elite Pro.... the sound q is in the same class.... and the versatility, with AC3/DTS Spdif input decoding, is wonderful!

:cool:

Get a relatively cheap soundcard with digital coaxial or SPDIF output and connect it to the digital input of a decent audio receiver (Harman Kardon, Onkyo, etc. ); you should be very happy with the audio quality. Audio nuts will probably disagree with me.

Or upgrade your motherboard and CPU and get one with digital audio outputs. That way you will upgrade both the speed and sound of your PC.

The issue with studio cards is that most is not targeted at the HTPC market.
From what I've read, Lynx-studio's listen to the htpc crowd (I think the last thing was the volume control) and that is not common among the high end developers.

But I would say that the first thing to decide is the amount of money you want to spend and what it should do.
What should it be connected to and so on ?
I wouldn't spend 1k on a sound card if the benefits of the extra quality is lost in the rest of the system.
If money is no issue then a Apogee Rosetta 200 might be worth looking at, Apogee is probably considered as one of THE top manufacturers in the music industry, though the 200 will set you back $1600-1700.

I agree with Fredrik - folks here using an HTPC as a preamp/processor deal more with driver issues/support, instead of hardware issues.

I have to disagree with rambo2300 - spending money on a cheap soundcard + cheap A/V receiver is not a hi-fi approach to improving your sound quality. Also, upgrading your motherboard, which typically use low-grade DACs & output drivers, is not the best approach. Upgrading your CPU, unless you're shooting for more horsepower for digital room correction (putting the cart before the horse), also does not directly impact sound quality.

Search more on "htpc as prepro" and "soundcard shootout" and you will get a better feel for solutions tried already.

The thing to watch out for is that the cost of pro audio setups is comparable to decent prepros...and prepros are far easier to use and integrate into HTPC than a pro audio card.

- Steve O.

While I completely agree with letting your surround prossor handle AC3 and DTS streams but what about WAV files and MP3s? Doesn't the sound card have to convert these formats into a digital bitstream to send over to your components? It is my understanding you are at the mercy of your sound card as to how good these formats will play since it must used its Analog to Digital converter for this process

Can anyone confirm this?

It is my understanding you are at the mercy of your sound card as to how good these formats will play since it must used its Analog to Digital converter for this process

Can anyone confirm this?

I doubt it, audio is never converted to analog unless you're using the analog outputs of the soundcard. If you're using S/PDIF, the audio is decoded (in the case of compressed audio) and sent out, directly, as PCM.

I'm using an M-Audio Delta 1010 in my HTPC. I don't use an integrated receiver. The Delta 1010 runs directly to several rack mount amps. The specs of this PCI device rivals that of much more expensive preamps. I play CD's and have a collection of flac files for reference listening. I also use this machine as my main theater PC to watch DVDs and such. I don't have any SACD or DVD-A discs. I used to use an integrated receiver and an asus soundcard that had an spdif output. My integrated receiver (Sony 100watt X 5) comes no where near the sound I get with the M-audio. Plus, with the Delta 1010 I can do 7.1 if I should ever get around to adding those other couple of speakers. The only downside, is I have to use a cordless gyro mouse as my remote. To adjust the volume, I must use the GUI. So I must resize the playing video. But that is not a deal breaker for me, as I prefer to set the volume and watch the movie rather than always tweaking it up or down.

For DVD-Audio playback, is a Creative card required? Or can I use any sufficiently capable sound card (24bit/192kHz) w/ analog out and either PowerDVD or WinDVD to playback protected DVD-As?

For DVD-Audio playback, is a Creative card required? Or can I use any sufficiently capable sound card (24bit/192kHz) w/ analog out and either PowerDVD or WinDVD to playback protected DVD-As?

A creative card is not required. I have used a X-Meridian and onboard sound with PowerDVD. Actually, on Vista, the creative card is the only one that does not work :p

- Rich

For DVD-Audio playback, is a Creative card required? Or can I use any sufficiently capable sound card (24bit/192kHz) w/ analog out and either PowerDVD or WinDVD to playback protected DVD-As?

You need a Creative card to play back protected DVD-As at full resolution.

How about a X-Meridian with LM4562 Opamps. Very nice sound quality for a HTPC. People areound here are getting great results with these cards and they say the X-Meridian easily rivals Audio gear several times more expensive. IT is worth review for you if considering a new HTPC build.

^^^^------- What he said, with a link to the thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=792354

Ozy

For my next HTPC, I've been keeping an eye on the upcoming Auzen X-fi Prelude 7.1. It seems to have a lot of potential and will have a HDMI add on card for sound output to compatible receivers and video cards. It is due out in late May/June. Here's a link to the press release.
http://www.auzentech.com/site/company/press.php

For my next HTPC, I've been keeping an eye on the upcoming Auzen X-fi Prelude 7.1. It seems to have a lot of potential and will have a HDMI add on card for sound output to compatible receivers and video cards. It is due out in late May/June. Here's a link to the press release.
http://www.auzentech.com/site/company/press.php

Looks good but it also looks like they are diliberatly withholding some features, I see no mention of ASIO support or DTS 5.1 encoding, perhaps it is to have something to add in for a future version of their cards.

How about a X-Meridian with LM4562 Opamps. Very nice sound quality for a HTPC. People areound here are getting great results with these cards and they say the X-Meridian easily rivals Audio gear several times more expensive. IT is worth review for you if considering a new HTPC build.


The bog standard one is pretty rubbish so make sure you upgrade

http://onkyo.jp/wavio/se_200pci/index.htm
http://onkyo.jp/wavio/images/top_se_200pci.jpg

if u can find it.

*edit

it's rather strange about how these Japanese sound cards are extremely unpopular here, based on the informations, that SE-200 using a lot of blackgates and other high end components. I've been using the lowest version (SE-90) for 2 months and quite satisfied with it, although I want to replace it with the SE-200.

*a more "detailed" pic.

http://www.geekstuff4u.com/images/se200pci.jpg

Interesting card though I can't find any reviews on that card or find anything about its capabilities other than;

It uses Wolfson WM8740 high performance dacs (http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/WM8740/)

And it's price, features & specs;

Onkyo SE-200PCI HD PCI Digital Audio Board (http://www.audiocubes.com/product/Onkyo_SE-200PCI_HD_PCI_Digital_Audio_Board.html)

Retail Price: $199.00

Features
Onkyo presents SE-200PCI, the all new 2006 high-end "HD Correspondence" PCI Digital Audio Board. Featuring both the VIA Envy24HT and Wolfon WM8740 chipsets, and the Onkyo VLSC (Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry). It provides an output of 115dB. Onkyo SE-200PCI is one of the best premium sound cards on the market. With the high performance DAC & the condenser, it has better digital transmission. Onkyo SE-200PCI is available for desktop PCs.



Specifications
Signal-noise ratio: 115dB (2ch ANALOG OUT)
Frequency characteristic: 0.3Hz～88kHz( 2ch ANALOG OUT , +0/-3dB )
Line output level: 2.0V rms
Digital IN sampling frequency: 32, 44.1 and 48, 88.2, 96kHz
Digital OUT sampling frequency :32, 44.1 and 48, 88.2, 96kHz, 176.4, 192kHz
Hardware requirement:
-Corresponding type: PCI (above Ver.2.1) the PC/AT compatible machine which has the bus slot
-OS: Windows®2000 Professional (above SP3) / XP (above SP1) Japanese edition
-CPU: Intel®Pentium®Ⅲ above 800MHz
-Memory: 128 MB or more
-In addition: CD-ROM drive
Input terminal:
-ANALOG IN X 2 (stereo RCA, internal connection)
-DIGITAL IN X 1 (light)
-MIC X 1 (φ 3.5mm monaural) Output terminal:
-2ch ANALOG OUT X 1 (stereo RCA) -DIGITAL OUT X 1 (light)
-7.1ch ANALOG OUT X 1 (Front L/R and Center, Surround L/R, Surround Back L/R and Subwoofer)
Size: H22 x W121 x D163 mm
Mass: 180g

well I can only say that my SE-90 (stock, no mod) is clearly (it's subjective, but for me it was clear) better than my previous x-fi platinum, most notable on jazz music.

OTOH I must remind u that it doesn't support ASIO (my card, but I expect all of them are the same).

Yeah, but it should support kernal streaming which is just as good.

Stupid DVD-A support....what good is 48kHz, might as well just play the DVD-Video side if it's going to downsample the DVD-A portion.

Came across this card on another thread looks like it does everything the X-Meridian does;

CLARO plus+ (http://www.htomega.com/rgboard/view.php?bbs_id=soundcards&doc_num=14)

That's what CLARO plus+ is for. Experience what you never had before. Your two Front
Speakers receiving ultimate signals purified by Analog Device's AD8620BR opamp (http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/041/AD8620BR.php) will
amaze you. CLARO plus+ also supports Dolby Pro Logic IIx, Dolby Headphone and
precision Base Management system. And if you want to enjoy audio, game with powerful
Dolby Digital or DTS sound through your AV receiver, CLARO can encode Dolby Digital
(Dolby Digital Live) or DTS (DTS Connect) signal with real-time. And CLARO plus+
supports Front Panel Audio Express for your PC case.

actually I'm wondering why such products as X-Meridian and Claro+ still only use 1/8" stereo jacks?

$$$ and room....

:cool:

The claro would use the same base 8788 chipset BUT the X-Meridian sounds alot better then the Claro+ If money is a concern get the claro+ or the Inferno, or the B-Enspirer....

My 2 cents...

IMO, you shouldn't do D-A in the PC.

For audiophile-grade sound, use bit perfect digital output for CD's. DTS and Dolby Digital have always been no issue to pass out from a PC SPDIF.

Audiophiles I know have spent the past 20 years perfecting their 2 channel CD-playback chain. None use SACD or DVD-A.

IMO, if you want SACD and/or DVD-A, use a set top player for these.

I bought the new Genesis 1976-1982 box set released last week.

The set contains remaster/remixed versions of each CD, plus a companion DVD-V wiith videos and 2 separate 5.1 mixes of each album- Dolby Digital and DTS 24-96.

Any PC can pass the DTS 24/96 versions out SPDIF. While DTS 24/96 is lossy, I believe it exceeds 16/44 CD quality.

Then you can use a highly rated receiver (I use a Pioneer 1014TX and Panasonic SAXR55) or other audiophile grade preamp/processor/receiver/amps to handle the audio decoding, D-A conversion and amplification with minimum noise and at minimum cost and complexity.

Motherboards will soon have HDMI outputs, enabling 6-8 channel PCM digital output up to 24/96, so this may enable DVD-A digital output, avoiding PC analog noise issues.

PS. Those 5.1 DTS 24/96 mixes on the new Genesis re-releases sound AWESOME fed to my SAXR55 digital amp receiver over SPDIF :D

CE Pro posted a story from Niveus, who makes high-end media centers, on getting high-quality audio from a HTPC.

http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/18229.html

My 2 cents...

IMO, you shouldn't do D-A in the PC.

For audiophile-grade sound, use bit perfect digital output for CD's. DTS and Dolby Digital have always been no issue to pass out from a PC SPDIF.

Audiophiles I know have spent the past 20 years perfecting their 2 channel CD-playback chain. None use SACD or DVD-A.



Have to chip in my agreement here. Why knock yourself out here? You can go digital from source all the way to your pre/pro, receiver, or DAC. These days, you can even get on-board solutions that will do it AND autoswitch between 44.1 and 48 kHz (in XP at least, not sure about Vista/Mac/Linux). This also means you can save a lot of money as compared to investing in an "uber" soundcard, with which you can upgrade the rest of your system or even *gasp* buy some more music! :D

Now, if you're going to record analog with the PC, that's a different story - that's why I have an RME Digi 96/24 card in my main PC. But for anything else, I believe in the KISS principle.

Ed

...and if you absolutely *must* do D-A from a PC, you should use a USB or Firewire sound card with the DACs in an external USB/Firewire box, to minimize analog noise for minimum cost.

Some HTPC forum members have used the M-Audio Firewire external box for some time.

Have to chip in my agreement here. Why knock yourself out here? You can go digital from source all the way to your pre/pro, receiver, or DAC. These days, you can even get on-board solutions that will do it AND autoswitch between 44.1 and 48 kHz (in XP at least, not sure about Vista/Mac/Linux). This also means you can save a lot of money as compared to investing in an "uber" soundcard, with which you can upgrade the rest of your system or even *gasp* buy some more music! :D

Now, if you're going to record analog with the PC, that's a different story - that's why I have an RME Digi 96/24 card in my main PC. But for anything else, I believe in the KISS principle.

Ed
Have to chip in here as well. The only place I do D/A conversion is in my Fosgate Preamp connected to a Sunfire amp. Everything up until then is digital from all sources.

Have to chip in my agreement here. Why knock yourself out here? You can go digital from source all the way to your pre/pro, receiver, or DAC. These days, you can even get on-board solutions that will do it AND autoswitch between 44.1 and 48 kHz (in XP at least, not sure about Vista/Mac/Linux). This also means you can save a lot of money as compared to investing in an "uber" soundcard, with which you can upgrade the rest of your system or even *gasp* buy some more music! :D

Now, if you're going to record analog with the PC, that's a different story - that's why I have an RME Digi 96/24 card in my main PC. But for anything else, I believe in the KISS principle.

Ed

Would your KISS principle include not bothering with a sound card and using the digital output from the motherboard to a pre/pro?

Have to chip in my agreement here. Why knock yourself out here? You can go digital from source all the way to your pre/pro, receiver, or DAC.

<snip>

Ed

If you limit yourself to S/PDIF then you only have 2channel PCM audio or multichannel audio for pre-encoded DD/DTS (and in some cases WMA) such as from DVDs - unless you settle for lossy-encoding audio into DD/DTS in real time.

For me this would be a big issue as I use my HTPC for multichannel audio playback with 5.1 channel 96kHz/24 bit pcm material. Right now I'm using the analog outs on my maudio 1010lt for this (and creative elite pro on the other machine for same thing), though I'm contemplating something like the meridian soundcard in combination with some upgraded opamps as described in other threads here.

If you limit yourself to S/PDIF then you only have 2channel PCM audio or multichannel audio for pre-encoded DD/DTS (and in some cases WMA) such as from DVDs - unless you settle for lossy-encoding audio into DD/DTS in real time.

For me this would be a big issue as I use my HTPC for multichannel audio playback with 5.1 channel 96kHz/24 bit pcm material. Right now I'm using the analog outs on my maudio 1010lt for this (and creative elite pro on the other machine for same thing), though I'm contemplating something like the meridian soundcard in combination with some upgraded opamps as described in other threads here.

...then you want the upcoming motherboards with HDMI on the back plane. You will be able to output 5.1-7.1 channel 24/96 PCM.

All the usual mobo suspects (Asus, MSI, etc) should have on board HDMI outs soon, if some haven't hit the streets yet. Once this happens, I see no reason to consider analog outs on a PC ever again (except for headphones).

Once this happens, I see no reason to consider analog outs on a PC ever again (except for headphones)
why is it that so many think that every digital solution is better than an analog solution? Like DVI/HDMI video.... is the DAC in the display always better than the DAC on the video card? Is the DAC in your receiver ALWAYS better than the DAC in your sound card?

:confused:

why is it that so many think that every digital solution is better than an analog solution? Like DVI/HDMI video.... is the DAC in the display always better than the DAC on the video card? Is the DAC in your receiver ALWAYS better than the DAC in your sound card?

:confused:

Of course not. I think the point the digital-out-only advocates are making is that digital out is probably the simplest and least costly method for achieving high quality audio out from a PC. HDMI will solve the multi-channel PCM issue.

Yes, you can achieve high quality analog outs, but it requires costly high quality cards, and driver functionality is hit or miss.

BTW, my "never consider analog outs again" comment referred to *audio* outs only, not video. I still run a 10m Bettercables analog VGA cable from my PC to my AE700 ;).

I have actually been *against* DVI/HDMI for video.

I am only advocating HDMI as a solution to the multi-chanel 24/96 PCM problem. If you are happy with CD 16/44.1 PCM, DVD 24/96 2-channel PCM, or DD/DTS bitstreams (up to DTS 24/96 multi-channel), then stick with current SPDIF outs.

Many people forget that red laser DVD-V's can do 2-channel 24/96 PCM (Lossless) and output this through SPDIF. Plus, if you believe 24/96 DTS (lossy) sounds better than 16/44.1 lossless CD, then you are covered with multi-channel output over SPDIF, too.

Interesting card though I can't find any reviews on that card or find anything about its capabilities other than;


And it's price, features & specs;




Specifications

Mass: 180g


That's not pretentious enough to be an audiophile weight.

^ then so does X-Meridian.

X-DACv8 Tubed Digital-to-Analogue Converter :eek: , what do you think about this "USB solution", for someone that really loves analog 2 channel stereo ?? Insted of PCI card ?? Connected to 2 high quality speakers, HTPC only with lossless music....

The most expensive DAC I've ever come across is the $250,000 Gaku-on. The $1,500 Music Fidelity X-DACv8 Dac is probably a pretty nice DAC, but I wouldn't really consider it "high end" in price. There are DAC kits that cost a lot more than $1,500. A lot of the high end DACs are either transformer coupled or use tube output stages, use silver wiring and have dedicated expensive power supplies for both analog and digital sections. Since I cannot find a website for the Gaku-on, here's a couple of runner ups:

GTE Trinity DAC (http://www.gte-audio.com/en/produkte_dac.htm) - €42,000
Audio Note DAC 5 Signature (http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/digital/dac_5_sig_01.shtml) - $59,500

[QUOTE=greggplummer]The most expensive DAC I've ever come across is the $250,000 Gaku-on. The $1,500 Music Fidelity X-DACv8 Dac is probably a pretty nice DAC, but I wouldn't really consider it "high end" in price. There are DAC kits that cost a lot more than $1,500. A lot of the high end DACs are either transformer coupled or use tube output stages, use silver wiring and have dedicated expensive power supplies for both analog and digital sections. Since I cannot find a website for the Gaku-on, here's a couple of runner ups:


What grabbed my attention in the MF DAC is the integrated USB connection witch is perfect to connect directly the HTPC(as a music source, and so on…) with a USB cable directly to the DAC, I think is one of the best solutions...I'm wrong ?

For some time now, I'm looking for the "perfect" solution to definitely make my HTPC as my main and only source for music. Today I’ve a DENON 2900 with a integrated amp from MF the A300(I’m a stereo kind of guy J) and I’ve my HTPC(only lossless music) connected to that amp trough a Audiotrak Prodigy sound card and the Denon still is much better (at least for me) in sound quality…until know I was looking for a new sound cart hoping that the sound quality would improve, but I don’t know…..any ideas? Thanks.

What grabbed my attention in the MF DAC is the integrated USB connection witch is perfect to connect directly the HTPC(as a music source, and so on…) with a USB cable directly to the DAC, I think is one of the best solutions...I'm wrong ?

For some time now, I'm looking for the "perfect" solution to definitely make my HTPC as my main and only source for music. Today I’ve a DENON 2900 with a integrated amp from MF the A300(I’m a stereo kind of guy J) and I’ve my HTPC(only lossless music) connected to that amp trough a Audiotrak Prodigy sound card and the Denon still is much better (at least for me) in sound quality…until know I was looking for a new sound cart hoping that the sound quality would improve, but I don’t know…..any ideas? Thanks.

There are a handful of dedicated DACs that have a USB interface. Some of these can also be fairly expensive, like the $6,000 Spoiler USB Tube DAC from Empirical Audio (http://www.empiricalaudio.com/). For something more reasonably priced, you might want to consider the Benchmark DAC1 USB (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1/). I think you are going to see a lot more of these products because the audiophile market has finally caught on to the benefits of PC based audio.

Neither of these products (and most dedicated DACs on the market) will provide multichannel surround sound for watching DVDs, HD DVD or Blu Ray.

That's what Amplio is working on. We plan to use the same or better digital-to-analog technology as the dedicated stereo DACs, but with multichannel versions.

There are a handful of dedicated DACs that have a USB interface. Some of these can also be fairly expensive, like the $6,000 Spoiler USB Tube DAC from Empirical Audio. For something more reasonably priced, you might want to consider the Benchmark DAC1 USB. I think you are going to see a lot more of these products because the audiophile market has finally caught on to the benefits of PC based audio.

Neither of these products (and most dedicated DACs on the market) will provide multichannel surround sound for watching DVDs, HD DVD or Blu Ray.

That's what Amplio is working on. We plan to use the same or better digital-to-analog technology as the dedicated stereo DACs, but with multichannel versions.

- Sorry for this very dumb question, those DACs are HI-FI/HI-Quality substitutes for any internal/external consider hi-quality computer sound cards(M-Audio, Lynx, etc.), correct ?
- Another dumb question, If I already have my MF integrated amp that I like, I will use this DAC manly to connect my computer to the MF amp with great quality, correct ? Should I connect also my DENON CD Player to the DAC and them to the integrated amp ?

Many thanks for your help, with your mail you show me a all new world that I wasn't aware of :eek: ....thanks, I think finally I found my nirvana... :cool:

- Sorry for this very dumb question, those DACs are HI-FI/HI-Quality substitutes for any internal/external consider hi-quality computer sound cards(M-Audio, Lynx, etc.), correct ?
That's right. Some might argue that it would be hard to hear any difference between a Lynx 2B and the dedicated DACs on some systems. However, the dedicated audiophile DACs typically (not always) have better performance because they use multiple DACs for each channel to increase the dynamic range. They also have higher quality analog components in the output stage, which will make them more expensive. However, the pro-audio cards like the Lynx and the audiophile grade dedicated DACs are better at minimizing distortion caused by jitter when compared to almost all consumer soundcards available today.

The pro-audio soundcards are really geared for recording. Their sound quality is mainly for monitoring the mix, so it doesn't have to be super high quality.

- Another dumb question, If I already have my MF integrated amp that I like, I will use this DAC manly to connect my computer to the MF amp with great quality, correct ? Should I connect also my DENON CD Player to the DAC and them to the integrated amp?
That's right. The DAC will provide outputs directly to your integrated amp. Which MF amp do you own? (They need to work on the website a little, If you look at the info for their A1008 Integrated Amplifier, and pick the 'features and benefits' tab, it says, "There are currently no features & benefits available for this unit." -- I know what they are trying to say, but it did make me chuckle.

You could also connect your DENON CD player to a dedicated DAC using a S/PDIF connection. Have you considered ripping your CDs to your harddrive and just playing CD audio from your PC?

If your looking at multi-channel output combined with Vista, cross the Lynx 2B off your list. I have one. Love the card. Best DACs and comparable to anything highend not inside the computer. But...The vista drivers are a real mess right now for multi-channel. P.S. if you want to decode new Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies on the HTPC, you need analog outs since there is no external decoder for the latest DTS and Dobly Digital Standards. For all of these reasons I am using the X-Meridian for now. I hate the 1/8" jacks. I miss Balanced out using Lynx 2B. The DAC is ok. Not quite up to the Lynx 2B standard but close enough for now. I'm waiting for one of the high end pro shops like Lynx or RME to do a dedicated HTPC offering with 8 analgo channel out , strong vista support with Sys-FX.

That's right. Some might argue that it would be hard to hear any difference between a Lynx 2B and the dedicated DACs on some systems. However, the dedicated audiophile DACs typically (not always) have better performance because they use multiple DACs for each channel to increase the dynamic range. They also have higher quality analog components in the output stage, which will make them more expensive. However, the pro-audio cards like the Lynx and the audiophile grade dedicated DACs are better at minimizing distortion caused by jitter when compared to almost all consumer soundcards available today.

The pro-audio soundcards are really geared for recording. Their sound quality is mainly for monitoring the mix, so it doesn't have to be super high quality.

OK, understood, dedicated external DAC is the way to go if you want real Hi-Fi quality.

Although another question came to my mind :rolleyes: , with those fantastic DACs(Benchmark, and so on...) price tags, and even though I consider my self a analogue stereo person, shouldn’t one person start thinking that with a few more bucks could buy a "very good" massive integrated amp with all kinds of in/out connections, 5.1/7.1, etc., and solve the HTPC problem with a simple SPDIF connection(in this situation the quality of the Sound card in no issue) and let the amp do all the work ? Even to listen to stereo music ?

That's right. The DAC will provide outputs directly to your integrated amp. Which MF amp do you own? (They need to work on the website a little, If you look at the info for their A1008 Integrated Amplifier, and pick the 'features and benefits' tab, it says, "There are currently no features & benefits available for this unit." -- I know what they are trying to say, but it did make me chuckle.

You could also connect your DENON CD player to a dedicated DAC using a S/PDIF connection. Have you considered ripping your CDs to your harddrive and just playing CD audio from your PC?

My CD collection today is completed ripped in my computer, about 500GB of lossless WMA music.

My system today is(sorry no URL's, still in "quarantine"):
Denon DVD-2900(connect with a pair of very good Kimber Kable cables to the amp) mainly for music.
Musical Fidelity A3.2 integrated amplifier (stereo analogue)
Sonus Faber Domus Concerto Speakers (also connect with "very" good cables)
HTPC (Win XP and Meedio front end for the music and so on..) with a Audiotrack Prodigy internal sound card connect to the amp, trough a very low quality cable 1/8".
HTPC connected to my living room Samsung LCD.

And since I ripped all my CD collection to the HD I'm mainly listening to music from my HTPC(having all my music at my PC remotes distance is fantastic), but I still didn’t get rid of the DVD, because of quality issues (with this config the Denon sound quality is fairly better, I always listen to my new CDs for a wile trough the Denon) and the SACD/DVD-Audio ability of the Denon also.

That said, my lowest quality component is the Denon, and is exactly that component (I don't use the Denon for DVD, since I see everything trough the PC dvd, and I only have a few SACD, so...) I would like to substitute by the HTPC as a music source with at least same quality. So many variables my god…. :(

If your looking at multi-channel output combined with Vista, cross the Lynx 2B off your list. I have one. Love the card. Best DACs and comparable to anything highend not inside the computer. But...The vista drivers are a real mess right now for multi-channel. P.S. if you want to decode new Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies on the HTPC, you need analog outs since there is no external decoder for the latest DTS and Dobly Digital Standards. For all of these reasons I am using the X-Meridian for now. I hate the 1/8" jacks. I miss Balanced out using Lynx 2B. The DAC is ok. Not quite up to the Lynx 2B standard but close enough for now. I'm waiting for one of the high end pro shops like Lynx or RME to do a dedicated HTPC offering with 8 analgo channel out , strong vista support with Sys-FX.

Ok, thanks for the advice. :)

Personally, upgrading to Vista...only in a year or so, I'm quite happy with my stable WinXP system, I don't see any advantage to upgrade right now(same idea to the new standards like Blu-Ray, etc., I learn the lesson being an early adopter of the SACDs...). Also, regarding multi-channel, maybe I’m quite old minded, but I like to listen to my music collection in stereo and I leave surround sound systems to the cinemas were they belong(that I love so much), in my humbel opinion of course... :cool:

I have a Bryston B60 + Arcam CD72T. I switch between AUX (plays back movies or music from my PC) and CD (Arcam). My sound card is an EMU 0404, one of the best sounding pure 2-ch card you can buy (about $90). I have compared before because I was interested in the diferences. The most obvious thing LACKING is the bass extension on the 0404, whereas if I playback on my Arcam it's there and audible. The Arcam is also more articulate, detailed, and musical sounding than if I playback on the 0404.

The cables:

Evidence Audio Lyric HG 10' (1/4" to RCA) 0404 to B60
Evidence Audio Lyric HG 0.5m (RCA to RCA) Arcam to B60

I own the SE-150PCi & also the USB SE-U55GX. Must say that they both sound disappointing, too warm though fuller but at the cost of clarity.

These onkyo soundcards sell only in SEAsia i guess because they can't dump such trash elsewhere

...and if you absolutely *must* do D-A from a PC, you should use a USB or Firewire sound card with the DACs in an external USB/Firewire box, to minimize analog noise for minimum cost.
Analog from a card inside the PC is fine.
Yes there is the potential for interference but it's the results that count. There are internal sound cards that are extremely good, measuring just about as well as external cards.
I use use a sound card with an external breakout box but if the only thing I wanted was stereo line-level analog outs and I had space inside my case a PCI card would be fine.
USB cards tend to have consumer-targeted drivers so you have a bit less control over them. Pro-audio firewire cards are more common.

I am interested in the concept of an HTPC (DVD,PVR, CD) one box solution, but haven't been able to find any reviews of the "CD" sound potential attainable for music (compared to a mid/high stand alone CD player-such as a modded Jolida 100 tube player). I've looked over the offerings at 2 Parts Fusion ("flagship" model 702) and also discovered an M-Audio soundcard (the Audiophile) which, though pricey, might give very good-excellent sound quality. Anyone had a HTPC/CD head to head music comparison? Any experience with the M-Audio card? Thanks in advance- Tim.
-Reading the CDs can be better; although more complex and there is a bit to learn. You need a "good" drive and the right software (dbpoweramp secure ripper, EAC, plextools). You can do a more thorough job than a CD player can.
-Getting good stereo analog output is easy. If you only have a stereo setup that is what you want. There are various good cards. I recommend the E-MU range. Getting extremely accurate output is very easy. Then you have the power to do all sorts of DSP; that is the bit that involves some thought. Connect the analog out to an external preamp or integrated amp - generally bad to do volume control in the computer as it is digital and reduced effective resolution of the sound card.

hi, i use the following sound cards in my htpc's for stereo and both are excellant.

RME9632
Lynx-Two B

thanks

CaM