So for those of you buying these upscaling players and also have cable boxes, I think there are a lot of people (like my situation) who are going to need 2 HDMI and/or DVI inputs. What are you going to do? Buy a HDMI/DVI switching box?

Aaron

Can't you just unplug the hdmi from the HD-DVR (or cable box) and plug it into the dvd player? Will doing so erase any saved settings? If so, it's not worth the hassle but if it leaves everything 'as is' then for me, it will be simple.
Let me know.

Nick

Im thinkin of gettin my tv ISF calibrated as well.. I gotta see the costs of it first.. Also, i didnt see anything in the manual but i might of missed it, is there an hour counter?

Chris

With all the HDCP stuff in place these days, it's hard to find a DVD player that will upconvert over component. Hook up your STB with component and your DVD player with HDMI.

That's what I was thinking, but do you loose any resolution going through component input instead of HDMI?

BTW, the HD picture is awesome on this set. I actually sat and watched the Little League World Series on ESPN today, and I don't really care too much for baseball.

I'm REALLY looking forward to some HD football on this bad boy! :)

You're right; using the audio in the component hookup will not provide sound when your TV is focused on input 6, the HDMI input.

But I think I got it figured out. Basically, you just use Input 6 for both because it has HDMI and an alternate RCA audio in. Hook up the DVD audio to the audio IN on input 6 on the TV, right next to where you'll hook up your HDMI out of the switch box. That's it.

When you're Gefen is switched to the 6412, the pure HDMI connection carries video and audio into Input 6. Switch the Gefen to DVD and of course the 6412's HDMI video/audio signal is also switched off and DVD audio instead goes to input 6 via the RCA audio inputs on 6, HDMI still carries DVD video through the Gefen switch.

Potential Word of Caution: I wouldn't keep the DVD playing when you switch to/from the 6412 - seems you might harm the TV having the two audio signals coming into what is really one audio in on Input 6 (the RCA audio inputs are really alternate audio inputs, to use when your HDMI in has a DVI connection on the other end, as with your DVD, which wouldn't carry sound via HDMI). I could be wrong about his causing damage, but it is unquestionably true that you run the danger of sending HDMI audio and RCA audio into input 6 at the same time. I certainly wouldn't want to "experiment" with what effect this might have on my TV.

I really can't think of another way to do this, since your TV must be on Input 6 in order to receive HDMI signal, which is where your DVD video and STB video/audio signal will be coming into the TV (depending on which one the Gefen is weitched to). Kinda by definition, and as you speculated in your post, your TV will recoginize the audio only from the input it is focused on, to the exclusion of all other inputs. So, if you're on input 6, which is where you have to be to watch STB/DVD, only audio coming into input 6 would be available to be sent to your external speakers through the TV's RCA audio out, or to the internal speakers. Good thing for you the HDMI input 6 comes with those alternate audio in RCA jacks.



Nope; that won't work. If you connect your DVD audio cables to the 6412 STB, you will lose DVD audio when you switch the Gefen away from the STB signal and onto the DVD signal. Essentially, connecting your DVD audio to the STB audio results in you sending DVD audio to the very device you've just switched away from in order to enjoy watching your DVD. Hope that makes sense.



Thanks for the reply. My DVD is coming out of Video "4" and I believe my regular TV and HD is coming out of Video "7". I would like my Regular Anaalog AND my HD to come out of separate inputs so that........I think this is right......I can have different "Settings" for EACH of the separate sources (analog and HD). I'd hate having to fiddle with the settings as the settings are usually different with analog and HD......of course I could be wrong. I have Insight Cable coming out again......tomorrow to put back my original Moto 6208.........the analog does NOT look good on the 6412......at least not in my case.

Also, any thoughts on using the Gefen HDMI switcher? My DVD is DVI out and I can use a DVI to HDMI cable and and HDMI on the STB!

42A10 purchase update. I got an awesome deal on a 42A10 that was supposed to be in today. I've had a stressful week at work, really burned out and was kind of upset that it didn't come in today. I took a little drive and did some price matching at a BM down the street. They would match my price on the 42 + tax for a 50in. or undercut the other guys A42 price. The catch they won't have the 42 until the end of sept. I really don't need an A50 so I went back to the other guy and let him know about the pricing I was offered. I told him I was thinking about a power conditioner and I looked at the Monster HTS1600 which retails for 3bills. I was thinking they'd knock a decent chunk off the price. Nope they gave it to me. Im serious, they sent me to the counter with it and re-did the price of the TV so It cost me nothing more. I almost felt embarrassed walking out. I can't tell you what I ended up paying for the TV if you take off a discounted price for the Power Center. I only hope the TV doesn't disappoint me. Id hate to have to take it all back.

This thread has been an interesting read for me. I'm interested in how people that have previously owned HDTV's for a few years feel about it, as there seem to be quite a few first time purchasers in this thread. I've seen a few posts from people with other TV's but if there are any others I'd love to hear.

I've sold my 5 year old 46" Mitsubishi HDTV in anticipation of moving to a new place (didn't feel like lugging the 166lb tank with me), and this 42" version of this TV is one I'm strongly considering for a replacement.

My main uses are going to be an HTPC with MCE and for viewing HD content with either satellite or cable. I'll also be doing a fair amount of console gaming (xbox/ps2 now and xbox 360/PS3 when they are out), but games looked pretty horrible on my Mits, so I'm sure I'm more tolerant than most people in this regard.

While I loved my Mits, the following things were things I learned to live with on it:

- Poor handling of scenes with areas that are really bright and very dark at the same time...the mountain scene on the Video Essentials Disc really showed how bad this was.

- Red push (this was about 90% fixable via the service menu)

- Glare (eventually I took the shield off)

- Poor field of view (sitting too far off-center or on the floor was not really an option if you actually wanted to see what was on screen)

So if any of you who previously owned HDTVs care to comment at all please do and help a brother out.

You're right; using the audio in the component hookup will not provide sound when your TV is focused on input 6, the HDMI input.

But I think I got it figured out. Basically, you just use Input 6 for both because it has HDMI and an alternate RCA audio in. Hook up the DVD audio to the audio IN on input 6 on the TV, right next to where you'll hook up your HDMI out of the switch box. That's it.

When you're Gefen is switched to the 6412, the pure HDMI connection carries video and audio into Input 6. Switch the Gefen to DVD and of course the 6412's HDMI video/audio signal is also switched off and DVD audio instead goes to input 6 via the RCA audio inputs on 6, HDMI still carries DVD video through the Gefen switch.

Potential Word of Caution: I wouldn't keep the DVD playing when you switch to/from the 6412 - seems you might harm the TV having the two audio signals coming into what is really one audio in on Input 6 (the RCA audio inputs are really alternate audio inputs, to use when your HDMI in has a DVI connection on the other end, as with your DVD, which wouldn't carry sound via HDMI). I could be wrong about his causing damage, but it is unquestionably true that you run the danger of sending HDMI audio and RCA audio into input 6 at the same time. I certainly wouldn't want to "experiment" with what effect this might have on my TV.

I really can't think of another way to do this, since your TV must be on Input 6 in order to receive HDMI signal, which is where your DVD video and STB video/audio signal will be coming into the TV (depending on which one the Gefen is weitched to). Kinda by definition, and as you speculated in your post, your TV will recoginize the audio only from the input it is focused on, to the exclusion of all other inputs. So, if you're on input 6, which is where you have to be to watch STB/DVD, only audio coming into input 6 would be available to be sent to your external speakers through the TV's RCA audio out, or to the internal speakers. Good thing for you the HDMI input 6 comes with those alternate audio in RCA jacks.



Nope; that won't work. If you connect your DVD audio cables to the 6412 STB, you will lose DVD audio when you switch the Gefen away from the STB signal and onto the DVD signal. Essentially, connecting your DVD audio to the STB audio results in you sending DVD audio to the very device you've just switched away from in order to enjoy watching your DVD. Hope that makes sense.



FFFred: BTW, I am using the XVOX 315 powered speaker ( 3 small speakers and a built in sub) soooooooooo.........My tv speakers are OFF and the output has been switched to "Variable" so ALL sound (TV and DVD) come out of the 315. I thought you may wanna know this. P.S. thanks for all your advice. I've got the Insight guy coming tomorrow.

- Glare (eventually I took the shield off)



for a tv with no shield on it i can still see light reflections on the tv during the day.. i dont have the greatest light control in my room... but it is noticeable..

chris

Darned if the bottom half of my 50" A10 image doesn't bow outwards. Visible on both 4:3 and 16:9 material -- see attached (that's a tape measure aligned with vertical elements of the screen).

Service tech stopped by, fumbled with the remote ("hmmm, never seen one of these before..."), tried to enter the service menu with a secret button sequence (which only succeeded in short cycling the power to the A10 :eek: ) and in the end admitted he has to commune with the propeller-heads at Sony.

He thinks there might be something he can do to the set, but also said that a new one might be the solution.

Arghh! Just finished setting up and naming the favorite channels and tweaking all the inputs (BTW, I'm really happy with SD material coming directly through the cable input -- Comcast Digital).

Thanks for the reply. My DVD is coming out of Video "4" and I believe my regular TV and HD is coming out of Video "7". I would like my Regular Anaalog AND my HD to come out of separate inputs so that........I think this is right......I can have different "Settings" for EACH of the separate sources (analog and HD). I'd hate having to fiddle with the settings as the settings are usually different with analog and HD......of course I could be wrong. I have Insight Cable coming out again......tomorrow to put back my original Moto 6208.........the analog does NOT look good on the 6412......at least not in my case.

Also, any thoughts on using the Gefen HDMI switcher? My DVD is DVI out and I can use a DVI to HDMI cable and and HDMI on the STB!

Yeah, under your scenario of using the Gefen for your DVD/HDTV (through Video 6 inputs), you can split the cable coming out of your wall, send one branch to the 6412 and attach the second branch to your Cable input. Doing so will give you the ability to view analog signals through the Cable input, where you will be able to adjust the Cable input video characteristics separate and apart from how you adjust your Video 6 settings. Additional thought: Perhaps if the 6412 has a coax out you could forego the splitting and just have the 6412's coax out go to Cable In.

Of course, you will NOT be able to save separate video settings for your DVD and HDTV 6412 box, because with the Gefen they will share the same Video 6 input and as far as I know you can't save two separate settings for the same input on this TV. But, using the separate Cable In for analog puts that stuff on a separate video input, so that can be set separately from Video6.

As an aside, I'm surprised you're using Video7 for your TV, because that's a VGA input (intended primarily for viewing computers on the TV) and I doubt it does as good a job in showing a TV signal as 4,5 (component) or 6 (HDMI). You must be using a cable that converts the 6412's HDMI/DVI to VGA to go through Video7's VGA interface. So I wonder if your dissatisfaction with the 6412's analog signal may be at least in part due to your using Video7's VGA interface instead of component or HDMI. I'd recommend trying component cables and connecting the box to Video 4 or 5, until your HDMI stuff arrives. Analog may look a whole lot better. Also, for me my 6412's analog signal looks even better than component when I use HDMI instead. I'd hold off on the switch-out until you try the 6412 with HDMI . . . .

question: Ihave the SA 8300 HD DVR stb. What should I set the output to on the box.

I am using the HDMI. Should it be set to:
1. only 720p
2. only 1080i
3. 480p and 720p
4. 480p and 1080i

which one should it be set to. Please help.

I don't post much on this Forum but I am very interested in the 50A10 so have been watching this thread daily. My question is, doesn't the lack of a DVi input and only 1 HMDI connection bother anyone? The other sets I'm considering (Samsung HLR's) all seem to have at least 1 HMDI and 1 DVI. Some even have 2.

I'm under the impression that as far as video quality goes HMDI is 1st, DVi second, and Component third. Therefore, I'd like to connect my HD STB via HMDI and my DVD via DVi. Will I lose much being forced to use the Component connection for one of them?

I don't post much on this Forum but I am very interested in the 50A10 so have been watching this thread daily. My question is, doesn't the lack of a DVi input and only 1 HMDI connection bother anyone? The other sets I'm considering (Samsung HLR's) all seem to have at least 1 HMDI and 1 DVI. Some even have 2.

I'm under the impression that as far as video quality goes HMDI is 1st, DVi second, and Component third. Therefore, I'd like to connect my HD STB via HMDI and my DVD via DVi. Will I lose much being forced to use the Component connection for one of them?

I doubt anyone except for a a very trained eye would discern the difference in picture between an HDMI and Compnent hookup next to each other on the same tv with the same components.

Darned if the bottom half of my 50" A10 image doesn't bow outwards. Visible on both 4:3 and 16:9 material -- see attached (that's a tape measure aligned with vertical elements of the screen).

Service tech stopped by, fumbled with the remote ("hmmm, never seen one of these before..."), tried to enter the service menu with a secret button sequence (which only succeeded in short cycling the power to the A10 :eek: ) and in the end admitted he has to commune with the propeller-heads at Sony.

He thinks there might be something he can do to the set, but also said that a new one might be the solution.

Arghh! Just finished setting up and naming the favorite channels and tweaking all the inputs (BTW, I'm really happy with SD material coming directly through the cable input -- Comcast Digital).

Heck, all us Panny PTxxLC14 owners have that to deal with. I don't even notice it now and have excepted it. I don't notice anything on full screen content. For Sony, that might be something that isn't supposed to happen?

$400 off MSRP on a 42A10 is really good. Sears was offering 10% off A10's with 1 yr no interest/no pmt, which seemed pretty good. Was the CC price just on their floor demo unit, or, was that good for new units?


Just returned from CC price adjusted 110% on my KDF-E42A10, 3 off MSRP
I bougtht for 2 off MSRP 10 days ago. No problems. Thank For the Tips.

I'm particularly interested in the PC hookup and noticed that the few posts on 1:1 pixel mapping are getting lost... maybe some of us with PC connections can compare notes outside of the thread.I made a thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=570172) that includes a test pattern for 1:1 pixel mapping and where you can order the service manual from. I don't yet own an A10 since I want to confirm whether or not it is able do 1:1 pixel mapping.

Following up on the discussion a few pages back about set top boxes and their ability to generate PIP for our non-PIP A10 TVs, I have less than great news about the Motorola 6412 dual tuner set top box: Can't do PIP.

I'm pretty sure about this. Here's why:

I got my cable company to send me their much more detailed manual about the 6412, which included more details about the remote and the PIP buttons on it. The description of the PIP buttons clearly states that they are only there to operate your TV's PIP functionality while using the cable remote to control your TV. It even cautions that the PIP buttons may not work if your TV doesn't have PIP.

So there's that. Bummer.

But there's always hope. Hope of a firmware upgrade. Hope I'm wrong about this in spite of the manual . . . .

Anybody get the PIP on a 6412 box/remote to actually give you a PIP on your A10?

BUT . . . . . . . . . . Sony's implementation of HDMI in the A10's is only for L/R; not full surround. Which sucks. I use digital surround output from the cable box directly into my receiver, so it's not really devastating news, but it would be really nice to have the HDMI do all the work. Every cable saved in what is an appalling rat's nest behind my TV/components is a step in the right direction . . .

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Why would it matter if the TV only takes L+R audio as input from [insert source here]? Since the TV only has left and right speakers, what would you gain? (I'm thinking that if you're not using the internal speakers on the TV, you'd be running analog/digital outputs from the source to the receiver no matter what. Or, if the TV did take in multichannel, you'd still have to run a digital output from the TV to the receiver -- same difference.)

Can you manually add channels that the "Auto Program" misses? I could not find anything that allows for this.

Thanks,
Mike

Can you manually add channels that the "Auto Program" misses? I could not find anything that allows for this.

Thanks,
Mike

If you've done auto program then you should be able to go to Wega Gate/Settings/Channels and change the "Hide/See" setting for channels you want the TV to tune into.
Personally, I had the opposite problem. Lots of scrambled channels that were picked up by the tuner that I had to "hide."


Mitch

Darned if the bottom half of my 50" A10 image doesn't bow outwards. Visible on both 4:3 and 16:9 material -- see attached (that's a tape measure aligned with vertical elements of the screen).

He thinks there might be something he can do to the set, but also said that a new one might be the solution.


A new one might look a bit better but it will still be there to some extent. The reason this problem exists is because of the way the image is projected onto the screen by the lense.

:p :p FEI (For Everyone's Information), . .

Uhm,
By using the short-cut FEI and then explaining the meaning you have added exactly 7 extra characters and FEI, FEI will never ever be common-place!
:p

Can you manually add channels that the "Auto Program" misses? I could not find anything that allows for this.

Thanks,
Mike


Punch in the channel you want to add, 116.3 for example. Then press the circle button that's right above the Wega Gate button. This will bring up your favorites menu, then just add to favorites.

Darned if the bottom half of my 50" A10 image doesn't bow outwards. Visible on both 4:3 and 16:9 material -- see attached (that's a tape measure aligned with vertical elements of the screen).

Service tech stopped by, fumbled with the remote ("hmmm, never seen one of these before..."), tried to enter the service menu with a secret button sequence (which only succeeded in short cycling the power to the A10 :eek: ) and in the end admitted he has to commune with the propeller-heads at Sony.

He thinks there might be something he can do to the set, but also said that a new one might be the solution.

Arghh! Just finished setting up and naming the favorite channels and tweaking all the inputs (BTW, I'm really happy with SD material coming directly through the cable input -- Comcast Digital).

I doubt you really have a problem here. That is minor distortion caused by the optics. ALL TV's using lenses will exhibit this to some degree. I can attest that the Samsungs show far worse bowing at the sides than I see on yours. A buddy just got a new Toshiba DLP, and it is far worse than yours also. Optics are not perfect..when you project an image different distances on the screen, you are going to get some disortion of the image. Your service guy must be an idiot...he should know better, and have explained this to you. If you are still in doubt, go to a store and check the Sony's and other TV's for this issue. I think you will see you really don't have a defect. Now go and enjoy your new TV :)

I doubt you really have a problem here. That is minor distortion caused by the optics. ALL TV's using lenses will exhibit this to some degree. I can attest that the Samsungs show far worse bowing at the sides than I see on yours. A buddy just got a new Toshiba DLP, and it is far worse than yours also. Optics are not perfect..when you project an image different distances on the screen, you are going to get some disortion of the image. Your service guy must be an idiot...he should know better, and have explained this to you. If you are still in doubt, go to a store and check the Sony's and other TV's for this issue. I think you will see you really don't have a defect. Now go and enjoy your new TV :)

You're probably right -- but I bought the unit from the first store I found that had both the 42" & 50" A10s on display so I could compare them, and they were running only 16:9 HD material, of course. And they are 40 miles away!

I have tried to see other A10s locally but no one seems to have it on display (preferring to sell off the 655 & 955 units first, I guess).

We'll see what he says, but I'd sure hate to swap out for a unit with some bad pixels and maybe even worse distortion! :(

My first new TV since 1989 -- guess I wanted it to be perfect...
:rolleyes:

Mitch,
The "Hide/See" only lets you select a channel that is already in the line up.

Ph3,
I did add to favorites. But my old Sony let you add/delete from the auto-programmed list. I thought there might be a way to accomplish this with the new set.

Thanks,
Mike

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Why would it matter if the TV only takes L+R audio as input from [insert source here]? Since the TV only has left and right speakers, what would you gain? (I'm thinking that if you're not using the internal speakers on the TV, you'd be running analog/digital outputs from the source to the receiver no matter what. Or, if the TV did take in multichannel, you'd still have to run a digital output from the TV to the receiver -- same difference.)

You have a very good point. I think you may have uncovered a rare instance of me being completely wrong about something (insert smiley emoticon here). Seriously, based on what you pointed out, I am sure that's why Sony didn't implement 5.1 through the HDMI input, because indeed you'd have to connect to a separate 5.1 system no matter what since the TV is only stereo. You'd have to connect a digital audio cable one way or the other to your receiver, either from the TV's optical out or from any other source's digital out.

As you infer, the end result is no savings of a cable at all, and - even worse - since so far the digital audio out of my cable box has been far superior to the 5.1 digital sound I've obtained out of the A10 TV (with cable card), it makes even less sense to try to run 5.1 through the TV in any event.

So it appears I was totally off-base on this point and didn't think things through. . . . . Ah, well, there is a certain soul-cleansing feeling one gets when one faces one's errors, admits one's mistakes, and moves on from there. . . . .It's a brand new day for FFFred . . . . .Good eye, RosenK!

That's what I was thinking, but do you loose any resolution going through component input instead of HDMI?

BTW, the HD picture is awesome on this set. I actually sat and watched the Little League World Series on ESPN today, and I don't really care too much for baseball.

I'm REALLY looking forward to some HD football on this bad boy! :)

I am convinced I notice a discernable difference between HDMI and component, and HDMI seems markedly better to me. I compared the two using my 6412 Motorola HD DVR set top box, which has both component and HDMI out. Switching back and forth, and re-watching the same recroded HD content on both outputs convinced me that HDMI provided a superior picture. As added confirmation, I showed the two feeds (component and HDMI) to the cable guy last week, and he was amazed at how much better the HDMI feed looked. So I have a third party confirmation.

That being said, I'd recommend listening to no-one (including me and my cable guy) and deciding for yourself. If you have a cable box with both outputs, I think comparing the two using exactly the same video program (hopefully you have DVR capability on your box, so you can rewind and review for each output) is the best way to sort this out to your eyes' satisfaction.

:p :p

Uhm,
By using the short-cut FEI and then explaining the meaning you have added exactly 7 extra characters and FEI, FEI will never ever be common-place!
:p

Excellent point. Any humor that was intended by introducing a clearly absurd acronym must surely have been offset by the gross inefficiency in the use of characters. I should have realized efficiency in character use clearly trumps sarcasm. I don't know what I was thinking!

PS - I personally will not rest until FEI is a universally accepted acronym!

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Why would it matter if the TV only takes L+R audio as input from [insert source here]? Since the TV only has left and right speakers, what would you gain? (I'm thinking that if you're not using the internal speakers on the TV, you'd be running analog/digital outputs from the source to the receiver no matter what. Or, if the TV did take in multichannel, you'd still have to run a digital output from the TV to the receiver -- same difference.)

I think a lot of people want this because it will further reduce the chance of lip sync issues. The theory is the TV will process both the picture and multi channel sound at the same time. By sending sound to a receiver and video to the TV via separate paths you run the risk of lip sync issues.

Or

They believe the multi channel through HDMI will produce a better sound through the TV's speakers.

Just my $.02

I have read this entire thread and I am really surprised at some of the comments regarding picture quality.

I received the E42A10 yesterday. I ordered a week ago after seeing the set online, at my local Sonystyle store and reading the glowing reviews here in this thread. Like many have posted here, I was really excited to be able to fit this TV in my armoire. I was limited to a 34" CRT before. I was not impressed with the sets PQ in the store, BUT I have never ever been impressed by TV's (plasma, crt, LCD, you name it) in the stores because of feeds and poor settings as discussed here and in other threads.

I am coming from the 34HS510 and think it is a really great PQ TV. That set left quite a bit to be desired out of the box, but with the tips in these forums I was able to get it to what I thought was an incredible picture. I figured the same would apply here with the A10.

I have an HD TiVo (HDMI), the 6412 from Comcast, an HTPC and an XBOX.

I am writing this (I don't post often) as a question to see if my opinions are crazy/too harsh and to serve as "food for thought" for others considering this set.

I recorded the Monday Night Football (OTA, TiVo) game this week and kept it on the TiVo for the arrival of the new set. When I saw the game on the HS510, I thought it was some of the best MNF I had seen. Of course, football is a sight for sore eyes, so I might have been overly excited. When the A10 arrived, I was excited to check the PQ of the game.

Whoa!

Much to my surprise, there was all kinds of pixelization. All motion caused the picture to break up, not just the fast motion. The beginning of The Tonight Show, when there are a lot of audience pans, also has a ton of pixelization. The stuff on HD Net, INHD and Discovery HD also seems to have a lot of problems (Comcast and DirecTV.) Sunrise Earth looks pretty bad on those water scenes.

Now, what I am surprised by, curious about and my main reason for posting is that a number of people have said that they thought the TV responded well to motion. There were also comments that these sets provided the best HDTV PQ they had ever seen. Opinions, I know. This has not been my experience and I am really bummed. I have used the custom setting and tried some of the different settings on my own and those suggested here and other threads. Is there something wrong with my set or are some of you just more forgiving?

Beyond the motion artifacts, the picture just does not pop. There seems to be a dullness to the picture. Also, I don't think the picture is particularly crisp. Again, some people have raved about how they are seeing some of the best HDTV PQ ever with these sets. So, is it my set?

I know there is a difference in CRT and LCD technology, but if what I am seeing is a good representaion of LCD technology, I would recommend a pass. I know people like big screens in light (weight) packages, but PQ is king in my book. A 34" 200 lb set with great PQ is WAY more exciting than a huge screen with tons of motion artifacts.

FYI (I am still fiddling, but for now...)
Custom
Iris...2
Picture...85
Brightness...45
Color...38
Hue...R7
Color...Warm2
Sharpness...10
NR...Low
Black...Low
Advanced Iris...Low
Gamma...Low
Clear White...Off
Live Color...Off

I am really hoping that someone can figure out and post info about the service menu. I got quite comfortable with my previous sets service menu and was able to use it with great success, so hopefully that will happen again. I know these sets are new and it may take time for those posts to start appearing. I will be especially curious to know if there is anything in the service menu to help the motion artifacts.

So, needless to say, I am not blown away by a long shot. In fact, I am quite disappointed considering the rave reviews earlier in this thread.

Sending the set back is not really an option because of the shipping and restocking fee I would have to pay (roughly $400.) I felt really good about pulling the trigger and taking advantage of a great price from an e-tailer.

Thanks for indulging me, I look forward to hearing other opinions and experiences.

i think u need 2 watch live tv!

You're probably right -- but I bought the unit from the first store I found that had both the 42" & 50" A10s on display so I could compare them, and they were running only 16:9 HD material, of course. And they are 40 miles away!

I have tried to see other A10s locally but no one seems to have it on display (preferring to sell off the 655 & 955 units first, I guess).

We'll see what he says, but I'd sure hate to swap out for a unit with some bad pixels and maybe even worse distortion! :(

My first new TV since 1989 -- guess I wanted it to be perfect...
:rolleyes:

I hear ya, I'm on the edge of buying a set but am holding off for now. However, what the others have said is right -- geometry isn't going to be perfect (heck, with CRT it could be a lot worse out of the box). I think you have a pretty good setup there -- sit back and enjoy. Get a Avia or Video Essentials disc and start tweaking away.

Enjoy!

My wife and I went to Tweeter, CC, Cambridge Soundworks, and Sears to check out TVs last night. I was specifically interested in the A10s.

We're coming from a Mits. 46809 46" CRT RPTV that needs a repair job. Rather than pay for that, we decided to upgrade.

Tweeter, CC, and Sears had 50" A10s on display, and of all the LCD RPTVs in the stores that we saw the A10s seemed to have the sharpest picture, and in some cases looked almost 3D-like in scenes with a large depth of field. However, the picture seemed really washed out colorwise on all A10s that we saw. I did notice some screen door, and silk screen (the sparkling, right?), but that was only within 5' of the set, whereas our viewing distance will range from 8' to 14'.

Now I understand that the feeds in these stores are not the best, but we were completely underwhelmed with what we saw on all sets, except some of the smaller plasmas and LCD sets. Our existing set is not exactly top-of-the-line and has never been calibrated.

So, to finally get to my question...What do you satisfied A10 owners have for settings? I'd like to try those in a store to see how the TV looks with non-display-model settings.

Thanks!

I have read this entire thread and I am really surprised at some of the comments regarding picture quality.

I am writing this (I don't post often) as a question to see if my opinions are crazy/too harsh and to serve as "food for thought" for others considering this set.

I recorded the Monday Night Football (OTA, TiVo) game this week and kept it on the TiVo for the arrival of the new set. When I saw the game on the HS510, I thought it was some of the best MNF I had seen. Of course, football is a sight for sore eyes, so I might have been overly excited. When the A10 arrived, I was excited to check the PQ of the game.

Whoa!

Much to my surprise, there was all kinds of pixelization. All motion caused the picture to break up, not just the fast motion. The beginning of The Tonight Show, when there are a lot of audience pans, also has a ton of pixelization. The stuff on HD Net, INHD and Discovery HD also seems to have a lot of problems (Comcast and DirecTV.) Sunrise Earth looks pretty bad on those water scenes.

Now, what I am surprised by, curious about and my main reason for posting is that a number of people have said that they thought the TV responded well to motion. There were also comments that these sets provided the best HDTV PQ they had ever seen. Opinions, I know. This has not been my experience and I am really bummed. I have used the custom setting and tried some of the different settings on my own and those suggested here and other threads. Is there something wrong with my set or are some of you just more forgiving?

Beyond the motion artifacts, the picture just does not pop. There seems to be a dullness to the picture. Also, I don't think the picture is particularly crisp. Again, some people have raved about how they are seeing some of the best HDTV PQ ever with these sets. So, is it my set?

I know there is a difference in CRT and LCD technology, but if what I am seeing is a good representaion of LCD technology, I would recommend a pass. I know people like big screens in light (weight) packages, but PQ is king in my book. A 34" 200 lb set with great PQ is WAY more exciting than a huge screen with tons of motion artifacts.

I am really hoping that someone can figure out and post info about the service menu. I got quite comfortable with my previous sets service menu and was able to use it with great success, so hopefully that will happen again. I know these sets are new and it may take time for those posts to start appearing. I will be especially curious to know if there is anything in the service menu to help the motion artifacts.

So, needless to say, I am not blown away by a long shot. In fact, I am quite disappointed considering the rave reviews earlier in this thread.

Thanks for indulging me, I look forward to hearing other opinions and experiences.

In regards to your questions about motion artifacting and pixelization I own an A20 not an A10 but I think what you are seeing (especially on the MNF Brodcast) has more to do with the lousy compressed signal most of the providers are sending us then it does with the TV. MNF football had the same problem in my area but when I get a good high bitrate signal (like baseball on one of the INHD channels) it looks incredible with the same amount of motion. If it was 'traditional' motion artifacting that older LCD displays suffered from due to response time I think you would see it in news crawls along the bottom of the display and that type of thing looks fine on my set.

As far as the lack of 'pop' goes that probably comes down to personal preference.

Good luck with the set whatever you decide.

npm: Does the TiVO compress the image when it records/stores it? If so that would probably explain the problem. I get very annoyed with pixelation and I've only seen it in two cases. One is when watching some programs on my OTA PBS digital channel and another was while watching some Nascar on NBC - just to see what it looked like. But, I now believe these instances are the stations' fault not the TV's - in other words, the station is sending a rather compressed signal. The reason for this belief is based on watching stuff like MNF and Jay Leno and baseball HD broadcasts (again, all OTA) and being blown away by the PQ.

One other thing to try, if you haven't, is to turn "cinemotion" on. It's a setting in the video settings menu somewhere, iirc. I'm not sure it makes a difference, but I have it turned on and it is supposedly there for handling fast moving scenes.

Hope this helps,


Mitch

Beyond the motion artifacts, the picture just does not pop. There seems to be a dullness to the picture. Also, I don't think the picture is particularly crisp. Again, some people have raved about how they are seeing some of the best HDTV PQ ever with these sets. So, is it my set?

I know there is a difference in CRT and LCD technology, but if what I am seeing is a good representaion of LCD technology, I would recommend a pass. I know people like big screens in light (weight) packages, but PQ is king in my book. A 34" 200 lb set with great PQ is WAY more exciting than a huge screen with tons of motion artifacts.

FYI (I am still fiddling, but for now...)
Custom
Iris...2
Picture...85
Brightness...45
Color...38
Hue...R7
Color...Warm2
Sharpness...10
NR...Low
Black...Low
Advanced Iris...Low
Gamma...Low
Clear White...Off
Live Color...Off

So, needless to say, I am not blown away by a long shot. In fact, I am quite disappointed considering the rave reviews earlier in this thread.

Thanks for indulging me, I look forward to hearing other opinions and experiences.

A lot of these "rave reviews" were/are from people that were using older analog CRTs of the RP or direct view variety. Obviously the A10 is going to look much better than a TV from 10 or 15 years ago, but it has its flaws like everything else. And seeing HD for the very first time will make anyone praise the TV that they're watching it on. As noted by someone else, your cable provider compresses the image which is why you see motion pixelization. Limited bandwidth is to blame. Try OTA HD and see the difference.

You must like a lot of red with those settings. The A10 already exibits WAY too much red push to leave it on WARM 2. But, if that's what you like... You may want to crank your sharpness up to 30 or 35 to get a more crisp picture and turn NR to OFF.

My 42A10 has a MISCONVERGENCE issue if you can believe that. It also has a uniformity issue, which means you get faint blotches of certain colors on the screen. It's most noticeable on b&w movies/shows or with a null input. Part of the screen looks fine while another part might have a faint purple or blue tint to it. The majority of people here probably don't know what to look for, but if they looked a little closer at the screen they'd see these flaws. Most people won't care, but I sure as hell do.

Mine is going back for an exchange. The uniformity issue appears to be a normal trait for RPTVs (see CNET's review of the 50A10), but the misconvergence (color fringing) is just poor quality control at the factory in Mexico. It had to leave the factory that way because the LCD panels are fixed in place. I think more people here need to point out these flaws of the A10 if they are experiencing them. I can't be the only one here that sees misconvergence on the A10. And it's across the entire screen on mine and is off by 1 pixel in some areas. Not good.

Mine is going back for an exchange. The uniformity issue appears to be a normal trait for RPTVs (see CNET's review of the 50A10), but the misconvergence (color fringing) is just poor quality control at the factory in Mexico. It had to leave the factory that way because the LCD panels are fixed in place. I think more people here need to point out these flaws of the A10 if they are experiencing them. I can't be the only one here that sees misconvergence on the A10. And it's across the entire screen on mine and is off by 1 pixel in some areas. Not good.

The fact that some of these sets are made in Mexico perplexes me a bit.
FEI(For everyone's information) would it be an improvement in quality to purchase one made in the Pittsburgh?
And, why are they not made in Canada, afterall we have one or two handy guys here that could do a bang up job if given a chance.

one quick question guys, whats the lamp life on this model, or lcds in general?

The fact that some of these sets are made in Mexico perplexes me a bit.
FEI(For everyone's information) would it be an improvement in quality to purchase one made in the Pittsburgh?
And, why are they not made in Canada, afterall we have one or two handy guys here that could do a bang up job if given a chance.

Yeah, I was a little PO'ed when I saw the "Made In Mexico" sticker on the back of my 42A10. Sony announced that they were shifting some production of the A10s to Mexico to help keep up with the demand for them.

Making them in Canada would be nice, but it's probably not cost effective for Sony to build a new TV manufacturing plant there.

Well, I've had my 42A10 for a week and a half now- thought I'd post my thoughts:

I ordered the TV Sat. 8/13 from CC and had it delivered Mon. 8/15. That evening I went to my local Comcast to pick up a HD enabled STB. Lo and behold- because of the tax free weekend here in Mass, there was a run on boxes and they were out. So I wasn't able to pick up a STB until Thr 8/18. With my old box- hooked through composite, I wasn't really happy with the SD PQ- picture wasn't sharp and almost seemed a little washed out. When I got my new box, I hooked the TV up via Component cables- the box has DVI and I didn't have a DVI->HDMI cable- and so I ordered one from monoprice.com (thanks for the recommendation from posters on avsforum.com) The SD picture improved a bit- but wow- was really amazed at the HD PQ! My STB was giving me the premium movie channels (which I don't normally buy)- my gf and I watched Shrek 2 and 50 1st Dates. The movies were really sharp and crisp- Shrek 2 seemed 3D. The InHD channels and PBS are quite good too. My Pioneer DVD Player (component out) and Pioneer 633H-S DVR (dual layer DVD Recorder + 160 MB HD- great unit! - also component out) play back a respectable 480P and SD picture respectably (actually, I just hooked the 633H up via the component out last night- I need to see if that will do 480P as well- it probably does…) I was away for a long weekend and when I returned Tuesday, my DVI->HDMI cable had arrived. I don't see too much a difference w/ HD channels- but there's a HUGE increase in quality of sharpness and color for the SD channels coming out of my cable box (sorry, don't know the model of the STB, but it's a Motorola.) So with that, I'm now quite happy with the TV. I was a little disappointed that when I returned from the weekend and had the DVI->HDMI cable that I no longer had the premium movie channels- I was wanting to watch some high quality HD material with it.

I do notice the red push a bit, but it doesn't bother me- perhaps I'll look in the settings at some point to play with it. I don't notice a curve at the bottom of the screen that some are mentioning. When I'm looking really closely at the picture (1 foot away), I see one pixel that seems to be a bit bluer than others- must be "stuck"- I can't see it at all from my couch 8 feet away. Overall, I'm very happy with my TV. Now I just need to find a TV stand that will work well with it and my furniture (mission style in Cherry!)


Oh one additional note- this is my first RP tv. When looking at a 50A10 in a store, I was quite happy with the side to side viewing angle it has. When I got it home, I noticed that looking at it standing a foot or two away, from above it, the picture is REALLY dim. So it appears that they have improved side-to-side over the years, but not top or bottom. It doesn't matter much- but if I'm standing in front of my system loading a DVD into the player, trying to make my way through the menu, I can't see the picture well. Also, if you plan to put your TV high up on furniture and you have kids that watch TV from the floor, it might be dim as well. Just a FYI.

An update- I went back to CC a couple of weeks ago- their 10% off sale shaved $200 from the price- and with their 110% price match (which they do even with themselves!), I shaved $220. So no sales tax, $220 less than MSRP, $100 off my cable bill via rebate, plus the comfort of a bricks-n-morter store, I'm now happy with my purchase from a financial point of view too.

Anyone from Austin, TX get a good deal on the 50A10? CC in Sunset Valley has the 42A10 on the floor and I liked it a lot but the price left something to be desired. The 50 is 2 C-notes less than MSRP. Anyone get a better deal some where like Fry's etc? PM me. I'm debating whether to buy online or not since you can get a 50 for the MSRP of the 42 almost. Anyone try price matching with the PC Richards price even though we don't have one in TX?

If you wait, I bet Fry's will put them on sale. They've already had the 42" A10 and 55" A20 on sale. I tried doing a PM to PC Richards at Sears and it was a no go - even though PC Richards is listed in their system for price matching. They said they must be local.

You're probably right -- but I bought the unit from the first store I found that had both the 42" & 50" A10s on display so I could compare them, and they were running only 16:9 HD material, of course. And they are 40 miles away!

I have tried to see other A10s locally but no one seems to have it on display (preferring to sell off the 655 & 955 units first, I guess).

We'll see what he says, but I'd sure hate to swap out for a unit with some bad pixels and maybe even worse distortion! :(

My first new TV since 1989 -- guess I wanted it to be perfect...
:rolleyes:

If you want a perfect TV you are WAYYY out of luck..there is no such thing..lol. Quit obsessing over perfectly straight lines, and watch the darn thing. I can assure you that won't find a RPTV that can render perfectly straight lines at the sides. :)

I just purchased the A10 (42 inch) from PC Richards in NY for at least a few hundred less than competing retail stores after a bit of haggling. They always seem to have a bit of "wiggle room" and it only took them a week to get the set - delivery was only $50. So I was satisfied with that end of the purchase!

Now on to the A10:

So far I have been struggling to set this TV up properly. The colors especially are hard to get 'just right'. Most peoples suggested settings are too dark (my apartment doesn't get lots of light but I'm wondering if it's the set) and I end up having to turn up the iris (3-4) or brightness (70-80) signifigantly or the 'shadows' are way too prominent in 'dark' movies/shows. Then on 'bright' TV shows I'm inclined to turn these setting down for a better picture (2 seems to be the sweet spot for iris). Can't seem to get the right balance!

Also I'm about 7 feet away and notice the SSE. Because of the dimentions of my living room, I won't be able to push it away much further (a few inches maybe), but that may just take getting used to. I'm hoping that I get this TV 'tweaked' to my satisfaction. Any suggestions would be appreciated - I'm really new to TV's but am handy with electronics generally.

I will say I have seen this set deliver amazing picture with some HDTV movie channels!

Now on to the A10:

So far I have been struggling to set this TV up properly. The colors especially are hard to get 'just right'. Most peoples suggested settings are too dark (my apartment doesn't get lots of light but I'm wondering if it's the set) and I end up having to turn up the iris (3-4) or brightness (70-80) signifigantly or the 'shadows' are way too prominent in 'dark' movies/shows. Then on 'bright' TV shows I'm inclined to turn these setting down for a better picture (2 seems to be the sweet spot for iris). Can't seem to get the right balance!


I'm having this same problem as well. I've done some preliminary calibration with both DVE and THX and for the most part everything looks good except for the "shadow detail". In some dark scenes instead of showing depth/detail in the dark areas, it looks like a solid patch of black (black crush???). I know that RP LCD TVs traditionally have issues with blacks, but I thought it was strictly related to them being grey rather than pure black? Is this just somthing I need to get used to or is there a way to improve it?

Using "Input 6" on the Moto 6412 I have the cable being split into the TV Antenna Input AND the other cable going into the 6412. It seems the lower analog channels are slightly clearer being run thru the 6412 as opposed to using the Antenna Input. Here's my concern: with BOTH signals (analog & HD) coming in through Input 6 it seems I'm stuck using the same settings for both sources. It seems I can get a better HD picture (like on the my former Samsung DLP) if I can have separate settings for the HD. How can I (I suspect not) get a separate setting for the HD and a separate settings for the "analog"?..............OR should everything be run directly into the STB without splitting the cable OUT to the Antenna. One of the side benefits of using the split cable through antenna is that I pick up a lot of "free" digital channels.......movies, etc. Your thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

The fact that some of these sets are made in Mexico perplexes me a bit.
FEI(For everyone's information) would it be an improvement in quality to purchase one made in the Pittsburgh?
And, why are they not made in Canada, afterall we have one or two handy guys here that could do a bang up job if given a chance.

Your labor is too High - Mexicans work for TACO's :D

From what i can see so far, these A10s work great with HD but alot of tinkering is needed for the other channels.......

what is sse?

Been playing with the 42" A10 I picked up last night for about 10 hours now. Started going from Pace HD STB thru component and all was good. Since I had a unused port on the splitter that handles the incoming coax I ran another line to the coax in on the A10 and let the tv tuner autoscan the available channels. It took a while but it picked up 79 analog channels and 18 digital channels. The digital channels are mostly the local broadcast HDTV feeds, pbs and network stations. I don't have a cable card in the TV. Which leads me to my question....(granted my limited knowledge of TV cable distribution is several years old) if I were to return the STB and drop my service down to basic cable (Brighthouse Networks is the provider) would I still get the digital channels? I've been under the impression the cable companies relied on the STB's to decode those since TV's that could do that basically didnt exist till recently. I'd really miss ESPN HD and Discovery HD but saving $50 a month would go a long way towards swaying me.

From what i can see so far, these A10s work great with HD but alot of tinkering is needed for the other channels.......

I still have my 34" Sony that I bought in March of this year for sale, so I can get the 50a10.
My analog channels were terrible on this set using the 6412 phase 2 ( DVI). So I purchased A Mot cable Booster and replaced the 4 way splitter with a Monster 2 MHz splitter. This setup helped, and really help the other TV's through the house.
"BUT" I still wasn't completely satisfied with the 6412 picture feed. So I split the feed one going to 6412 and one going straight into the TV. The analog looked perfect coming straight out. So I called the cable company and they had a Tech come out to the house. I showed him the difference and he said that was a problem with these digital tuners on analog channels.
From reading this forum I found out MOT had a new tuner Phase 3 (HDMI) That really helped the Analog stations. I mention this to the Tech and He said yes it does and we have them. Told me to exchange the box, and as he left he turn around and said "I won't Lie to you, the new Phase 3 6412 really helped my PQ". When I went to Cableone I saw all the DVR's stacked up with the DVI out put :mad: So I told the girl my problem and what the Tech said. So she dashes off to the back office down the hall and came back asking me again "your tech said to change the 6412 for the new phase 3 box because of PQ Quality" I said Yes. So she goes back and 10 min later came walking down the hallway with the new 6412 phase 3 DVR. She said these weren't suppose to be release until Sept. After getting it home and hooking it up. All I can say is WOW, what a difference, even on HD channels had better PQ to me.
Oh I forgot to mention, I told her that I was thinking about going satellite the first time she came back from the office empty handed. With my internet and the works, I'm forking over $100 for their service monthly.
Sorry for being long but I hope this helps :)

I'm having this same problem as well. I've done some preliminary calibration with both DVE and THX and for the most part everything looks good except for the "shadow detail". In some dark scenes instead of showing depth/detail in the dark areas, it looks like a solid patch of black (black crush???). I know that RP LCD TVs traditionally have issues with blacks, but I thought it was strictly related to them being grey rather than pure black? Is this just somthing I need to get used to or is there a way to improve it?


Looks like we are having the same exact experience. "Black Crush" is the perfect name for it! I too would like to know if there is a way to improve it or if I have bad set! (or if LCD users just get used to it, but so many movies are 'dark' these days, your missing a lot)

As far as Blacks go right now (unless I jack up the brightness) , any run of the mill CRT blows this out of the water. Not sure what to do....

Anyone using a Panny 97s with this A10? What are your thoughts on the quality?

I just want to make sure I understand the dynamic Iris user controls correctly.

The Iris setting which goes from min, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, max is the amount of light being "let through" by the Iris in it's default position. So, at the Min. setting the Iris opening is at it's smallest and at the max. level the opening is at its largest. Does this sound correct? I currently have mine at min. because I thought the blacks looked better, but I may also experience "black crush" at this level. The manual states the Iris setting adjusts the contrast levels. So, according to the manual a higher setting gives you better contrast???

In the advanced settings for the Iris, you have off, low, med, and high...I believe. What exactly do these settings do for the iris? I understand what "off" does, but the others...

Any help understanding these questions would be great.

Thanks in advance...

Nick

Looks like we are having the same exact experience. "Black Crush" is the perfect name for it! I too would like to know if there is a way to improve it or if I have bad set! (or if LCD users just get used to it, but so many movies are 'dark' these days, your missing a lot)

As far as Blacks go right now (unless I jack up the brightness) , any run of the mill CRT blows this out of the water. Not sure what to do....


go back to Page 31 or 32 (link below) and look at Pictures taken. I don't see black Crush. :mad:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=562185&page=31&pp=10&highlight=pictures

I meant the pictures didn't turn out well. The tv looked great and the detail in dark scenes was really good.

Lcd guy explaining what he meant by pictures not turing out well :p :D

I have my Iris at Max, since everything is too dark to me if it is at a lower value.

I have,

Picture Mode: Custom
Iris: Max
Picture: 90
Brightness: 50
Color: 34
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 50

and no playing with advanced stuff yet.

I have not yet tried anyone else's tweaks.

go back to Page 31 or 32 (link below) and look at Pictures taken. I don't see black Crush. :mad:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=562185&page=31&pp=10&highlight=pictures


Maybe its the "bad" pictures or my expectations are off, but if you look at that first pic, almost the whole botton of the screen is one big black area with no detail aside from some of the soldiers helmets(?). Maybe that's the way its supposed to look? :confused:

[QUOTE=cobbway]go back to Page 31 or 32 (link below) and look at Pictures taken. I don't see black Crush. :mad:


I don't think you can make any sort of judgment from those pictures (of video games?), but they still have no detail in the dark areas IMO. I'm just saying if your watching something like any of the 'Batman' movies for example, where everything is in shadows, entire characters and important details will be blacked out unless you 'jack up' the brightness and which compromises the PQ for any other type of viewing.

I'm far from an authority on this but I'm wondering if any 'experienced' people here have any insight? I don't want to be endlessly fiddling with this set!
Thanks

Rick

Stopped by CC today where they had a very good DirecTV HD feed of the Yankess/Jays game on the YES network.

Until now, I haven't been particularly impressed with PQ on the A10, but this Yankee broadcast looked pretty darn good today.

Colors popped, blacks looked very good for an RP LCD (not quite there yet but they're getting better; comparable to the Sammy DLP next to it), onscreen text was clear and sharp. Motion blur wasn't an issue at all, neither was macroblocking or pixelation, SSE was minimal at my viewing distance.

I've boiled my options down to 3 tvs: 1.) the 42A10, 2. the Panny TH-42PX50U HD plasma, and 3.) the Sony 34" XBR 960. For their respective technologies, RP LCD, plasma and CRT, these are the 3 best TVs on the market in terms of value, PQ and overall performance, in my opinion.

For the first time, I noticed the much-discussed 'green push' on the Panny plasma during the Yankee game. The grass in the infield didn't look like natural green, looked very artificial. The A10 beat the pants off the Panny 42PX50U in that regard. However, the Panny's blacks are a lot deeper and darker with better shadow detail

The A10's major shortcoming is definitely shadow detail. Black areas appear only black, and the hidden details in shadow areas are almost impossible to make out. I think this is what you folks refer to as 'black crush.' And the XBR 960, well, it's pretty astonishing. But it's also $1899, 200lbs and 23+" deep.

I cancelled my order on the A10 because I need to pay off some credit card debt, not much, but enough to postpone the A10 purchase. I'm gonna wait 'til November to pull the trigger. I wanna see how all this stuff plays out. My guess is by Holiday season, the price wars will begin, and we'll be seeing some very competitive prices from all brands and in all technologies. I've waited this long, I can hold out and save for a few more months.

[QUOTE=cobbway]go back to Page 31 or 32 (link below) and look at Pictures taken. I don't see black Crush. :mad:


I don't think you can make any sort of judgment from those pictures (of video games?), but they still have no detail in the dark areas IMO. I'm just saying if your watching something like any of the 'Batman' movies for example, where everything is in shadows, entire characters and important details will be blacked out unless you 'jack up' the brightness and which compromises the PQ for any other type of viewing.

I'm far from an authority on this but I'm wondering if any 'experienced' people here have any insight? I don't want to be endlessly fiddling with this set!
Thanks

Rick

I hate to say it, but all your complaints apply to my GWIII also. I was hoping the A-10 would solve these issues with the addition of the iris etc. , but it appears that it didn't really leap ahead in dark area rendition. Maybe LCD projection will never cut it in this area, and may fall by the wayside, when the SXRD technology becomes more affordable. If SXRD really kicks butt, we may see the death of DLP eventually too.

With the Iris set to 2, Advanced Iris set to Low, and Brightness around 45, I have a very acceptable level of shadow detail. Of course it is not going to be as good as any other technology, but this is one of the most talked about drawbacks of LCD projection.

Funny, I've been waiting for some of you guys to mention this issue. Comparing an A10 directly to an A20, side by side with the same source, the blacks on the A10 were deeper, but with all the detail gone. That, plus what seems to be the dynamic iris' process distracting me when the mage cuts from dark to light, and my general disenchantment with the A10's image/sharpness/resolution and also the red push, made me go for a 55" A20 (not nstalled yet).

I am still wondering whether the A10s I've seen just haven't been set up well, as I've no doubt the set can be great. There are some very happy A10 owners here and I certainly don't dispute that it's a potentially great set, with some problems. There are pros and cons to every set which one has to consider, and I just personallly prefer the pros of the A20 (I hope! I'll know more in a few days when I'm watching it!)

Using "Input 6" on the Moto 6412 I have the cable being split into the TV Antenna Input AND the other cable going into the 6412. It seems the lower analog channels are slightly clearer being run thru the 6412 as opposed to using the Antenna Input. Here's my concern: with BOTH signals (analog & HD) coming in through Input 6 it seems I'm stuck using the same settings for both sources. It seems I can get a better HD picture (like on the my former Samsung DLP) if I can have separate settings for the HD. How can I (I suspect not) get a separate setting for the HD and a separate settings for the "analog"?..............OR should everything be run directly into the STB without splitting the cable OUT to the Antenna. One of the side benefits of using the split cable through antenna is that I pick up a lot of "free" digital channels.......movies, etc. Your thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

You are in luck, Mr. Kmil. Well, partially in luck. You see, for each input, you can separately save settings for each of the THREE picture modes: Vivid, Standard and Custom. So, you can have your separate analog settings on the same input as your HD settings so long as you save them under a different picture modes. That's pretty cool, I think. Only slight drawback is that just Custom mode gives you a full-featured set of settings. Vivid and Standard have fewer tweaks available. But if you tweak, compare, and test, over and over again, I bet you will able to pull it off using, say, custom and standard modes.

Added bonus: All of the above doesn't prevent you from still connecting your split connection to the Antenna input, so you won't lose those neat channels you get on the Antenna input.

There is, however a Plan B: Stick with Input 6 HDMI for both HD and analog and enjoy the show. IE, I think it is entirely possible that you won't have a need to separately adjust the analog, so you won't have to worry about this issue. You see, like you, I had a DLP before and constantly struggled to get a decent picture out of analog/SD, while HD looked fantastic. On this TV, the analog is sooooo much better than before, especially via HDMI, that I really don't feel a need to tweak the analog signal. Frankly, I think this Sony's software/codecs/algorithms/etc. are far superior to the DLP I had in grappling with a low-quality signal and making it pretty darned good. I also suspect that LCD technology inherently can accomodate and deal with analog/SD better than DLP technology. Well, anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Good luck!

Well, I've had my 42A10 for a week and a half now- thought I'd post my thoughts:

I ordered the TV Sat. 8/13 from CC and had it delivered Mon. 8/15. That evening I went to my local Comcast to pick up a HD enabled STB. Lo and behold- because of the tax free weekend here in Mass, there was a run on boxes and they were out. So I wasn't able to pick up a STB until Thr 8/18. With my old box- hooked through composite, I wasn't really happy with the SD PQ- picture wasn't sharp and almost seemed a little washed out. When I got my new box, I hooked the TV up via Component cables- the box has DVI and I didn't have a DVI->HDMI cable- and so I ordered one from monoprice.com (thanks for the recommendation from posters on avsforum.com) The SD picture improved a bit- but wow- was really amazed at the HD PQ! My STB was giving me the premium movie channels (which I don't normally buy)- my gf and I watched Shrek 2 and 50 1st Dates. The movies were really sharp and crisp- Shrek 2 seemed 3D. The InHD channels and PBS are quite good too. My Pioneer DVD Player (component out) and Pioneer 633H-S DVR (dual layer DVD Recorder + 160 MB HD- great unit! - also component out) play back a respectable 480P and SD picture respectably (actually, I just hooked the 633H up via the component out last night- I need to see if that will do 480P as well- it probably does…) I was away for a long weekend and when I returned Tuesday, my DVI->HDMI cable had arrived. I don't see too much a difference w/ HD channels- but there's a HUGE increase in quality of sharpness and color for the SD channels coming out of my cable box (sorry, don't know the model of the STB, but it's a Motorola.) So with that, I'm now quite happy with the TV. I was a little disappointed that when I returned from the weekend and had the DVI->HDMI cable that I no longer had the premium movie channels- I was wanting to watch some high quality HD material with it.

I do notice the red push a bit, but it doesn't bother me- perhaps I'll look in the settings at some point to play with it. I don't notice a curve at the bottom of the screen that some are mentioning. When I'm looking really closely at the picture (1 foot away), I see one pixel that seems to be a bit bluer than others- must be "stuck"- I can't see it at all from my couch 8 feet away. Overall, I'm very happy with my TV. Now I just need to find a TV stand that will work well with it and my furniture (mission style in Cherry!)


Oh one additional note- this is my first RP tv. When looking at a 50A10 in a store, I was quite happy with the side to side viewing angle it has. When I got it home, I noticed that looking at it standing a foot or two away, from above it, the picture is REALLY dim. So it appears that they have improved side-to-side over the years, but not top or bottom. It doesn't matter much- but if I'm standing in front of my system loading a DVD into the player, trying to make my way through the menu, I can't see the picture well. Also, if you plan to put your TV high up on furniture and you have kids that watch TV from the floor, it might be dim as well. Just a FYI.


Fine and dandy but what does THE WALL look like on DVD?

Just wanted to post, I got the 42A10 Tuesday night from CC. They had is on sale and I had a 10% coupon to brink the final price to nearly 4 benjamins off MSRP. I had originally went to get the 50A10, but in the end decided that it would be too big for the area it was going in. I've really only had a day to mess around with it. The HD broadcasts and DVD's look really good, but like others had mentioned the standard channels look pretty bad. I think someone else compared it to running off of rabbit ears, and I would totally agree with this comparison. I'm going to have to mess with it some more to try and figure out what can be done. I may start with calling Time Warner and see if they can check the signal?? Not sure, anyway just wanted to post since I have been a long time reader. Thanks

-Brian

The A10's major shortcoming is definitely shadow detail. Black areas appear only black, and the hidden details in shadow areas are almost impossible to make out. I think this is what you folks refer to as 'black crush.' And the XBR 960, well, it's pretty astonishing. But it's also $1899, 200lbs and 23+" deep.

Interesting, Yoda, you're the second poster in just this last page to mention dissatisfaction with shadow detail on the A10s.

What's odd, is poor shadow detail and black crush were the exact reasons why I returned the DLP I had before and got this A10, and I think the shadow detail on the A10 is much much better than anything I could achieve on the DLP I had. In fact, great shadow detail and completely adequate/non-issue black levels are what I like best about this set. Beauty (and black levels) are obviously in the eye of the beholder.

I will say that bad adjustment of the A10 can copmpletely and utterly ruin the PQ. It is possible to "tweak" the set to indeed give you complete loss of shadow detail, introduce horrid black crush, and even start sliding into clay-face territory. For instance, that black corrector adjustment for me must be set to OFF, or the "corrected" black starts to crush and completely loose detail. I suspect I lose some black level turning that setting off, but for my eyes I just don't notice it. Adjusment of the Iris also affected shadow detail and black crush for my eyes. With proper really-not-too-complicated adjustment, my A10 has fantastic shadow detail, and I don't notice if it's black level ultimately isn't perfectly black because it's all relative to the picture I'm seeing for me.

It's also too bad you're viewing these sets in the store - that's unfortunate because my experience has been that you can't really tell which is better/worse unless you have it in a home environment. The only way around that is buy from brick and mortar with a 30-day no restock/no questions asked return policy. That's what I did - I think most stores do this nowadays anyway. So I bought an awesome-looking DLP, took it home, and it was like Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde; completely different viewing experience in the home, and just was not good for me. I exchanged it for the A10, and I was prepared to send that one back too, if it didn't look good to me. It's the only way to go, especially with such a subjective thing as PQ and with the vast array of tech choices in TVs these days.

Lastly, that XBR you mentioned, I just don't understand these CRT HD TVs. Yeah, best possible picture unquestionably, but it's so tiny. Why bother with HD on such a small screen? How do you have that captivating, thrilling cinematic experience viewing such a small screen? And to boot, if you view 4:3 content native, you've got the equivalent of like a 27 inch regular TV - smaller than the TV I just replaced for HD. I just don't see the point. Size matters . . . . . I think if I needed to have that wonderfully perfect CRT PQ, I'd just wait another year or two until some big-screen tech can match it (it'll happen, I bet).

The KDFE50A10 just showed up on the canadian sonystyle website. They list august 29 as the expected date of arrival. It's listed at 3199.99 (canadian)

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1001599&navigationPath=n32050n45260

The KDFE50A10 just showed up on the canadian sonystyle website. They list august 29 as the expected date of arrival. It's listed at 3199.99 (canadian)

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1001599&navigationPath=n32050n45260


LOL,
I came onto the thread to post exactly what you just did.
Can't wait to see them up close and uh.....er.....I promise to keep my pants on when I first view its beauty!
:p
Later Brother Canuck

Interesting, Yoda, you're the second poster in just this last page to mention dissatisfaction with shadow detail on the A10s.

What's odd, is poor shadow detail and black crush were the exact reasons why I returned the DLP I had before and got this A10, and I think the shadow detail on the A10 is much much better than anything I could achieve on the DLP I had. In fact, great shadow detail and completely adequate/non-issue black levels are what I like best about this set. Beauty (and black levels) are obviously in the eye of the beholder.

I will say that bad adjustment of the A10 can copmpletely and utterly ruin the PQ. It is possible to "tweak" the set to indeed give you complete loss of shadow detail, introduce horrid black crush, and even start sliding into clay-face territory. For instance, that black corrector adjustment for me must be set to OFF, or the "corrected" black starts to crush and completely loose detail. I suspect I lose some black level turning that setting off, but for my eyes I just don't notice it. Adjusment of the Iris also affected shadow detail and black crush for my eyes. With proper really-not-too-complicated adjustment, my A10 has fantastic shadow detail, and I don't notice if it's black level ultimately isn't perfectly black because it's all relative to the picture I'm seeing for me.



Would you mind posting your settings?

Interesting, Yoda, you're the second poster in just this last page to mention dissatisfaction with shadow detail on the A10s.

What's odd, is poor shadow detail and black crush were the exact reasons why I returned the DLP I had before and got this A10, and I think the shadow detail on the A10 is much much better than anything I could achieve on the DLP I had. In fact, great shadow detail and completely adequate/non-issue black levels are what I like best about this set. Beauty (and black levels) are obviously in the eye of the beholder.

I will say that bad adjustment of the A10 can copmpletely and utterly ruin the PQ. It is possible to "tweak" the set to indeed give you complete loss of shadow detail, introduce horrid black crush, and even start sliding into clay-face territory. For instance, that black corrector adjustment for me must be set to OFF, or the "corrected" black starts to crush and completely loose detail. I suspect I lose some black level turning that setting off, but for my eyes I just don't notice it. Adjusment of the Iris also affected shadow detail and black crush for my eyes. With proper really-not-too-complicated adjustment, my A10 has fantastic shadow detail, and I don't notice if it's black level ultimately isn't perfectly black because it's all relative to the picture I'm seeing for me.


FFFred,

I received my 50A10 yesterday morning. Once I got it hooked up, I spent about an hour going through and adjusting the settings using Avia. I ended up with what I thought were a pretty good SD and DVD picture quality and an awesome HD picture (DirecTV HD) depending on the programming material being shown. The Little League World Series on ESPN HD was incredible.

As the daylight grew dim, it seemed as though the picture got worse on all broadcasts, both SD and HD. It looked like it lacked in contrast and the once acceptable blacks started to look grey. This reduction in picture quality with different lighting prompted me to run through the settings on Avia a second time. The changes I made were minimal from what I had set up earlier in the day, but the picture quality was still bad. I tried turning various lamps on in the room, but still couldn't get the great picture I had during the day.

I figured I had nothing to lose, so I started making changes to the settings by eye. I started by turning the advanced iris on. Once I set it to 2 or above, I could see the iris operating when the picture shifted between dark and light scenes (totally unacceptable), so I turned it back to 1. Then I started adjusting the other iris in the main part of the menu ("contrast"). I tried all the different levels from min to max, but still couldn't get a good picture. On dark scenes, it either had no shadow details or crushed blacks. The side bars on 4:3 material that had looked black during the day now looked dark grey. I messed around with the black level and the white level too, but never could get the picture "right". I wasn't very happy when I finally gave up and went to bed.

This afternoon when I got home from work, I reset the picture back to factory defaults and re-adjusted from scratch. I'm back to a great picture again.

I thought projection TV's were supposed to look better in the dark, not worse.

It'll be interesting to see what tonight brings.

Is it normal to have to make adjustments between day and night time to maintain picture quality?

Could you please post your settings so I have a point of reference? I know settings vary from one set to the next and from viewer to viewer, so I won't hold you responsible if my picture get worse. :)

Thanks,
Bob

Got home from work about an hour ago and been playing with the settings some more...

Even with my complaignts about the blacks, to be fair the HDTV channels can be simply stunning with this set. I'm sure that's what many people are praising about the A10's. After a little fiddling here's my settings (for the moment). I went back and forth between the HDTV and SD channels to hopefully find a balanced setting - I also like a more 'natural' look as well.

Iris 2
Picture 65
Brightness 70
Color 60
Hue 0
Color Temp Cool
Sharp 35

Black Corrector off
Advanced Iris Low
Gamma Low
Clear White off
Live Color off

Could someone please just post the measurement of the rear width on the 50" a10? I've searched and searched. All I can find is the rear width of the 42" version.

please? the 50"? please oh please?

Rob

The rear of the 50A10 is 27" wide.


Mitch

Mitch, you are my hero.

Rob

I thought projection TV's were supposed to look better in the dark, not worse.

It'll be interesting to see what tonight brings.

Is it normal to have to make adjustments between day and night time to maintain picture quality?

You'll never get decent black levels on a RP LCD. The advanced iris does a good job when setting it higher than Low, but the noticeable shift in contrast on any setting above Low makes it useless for everyday viewing.

The standard iris setting should be lowered to Min or 1 for low-level lighting or a completely dark room. An iris setting of 2 works good for daytime viewing, and is also good for nightime viewing if you have some lights on.

From there you just need to play with the contrast (Picture) and brightness settings to get a picture that doesn't look washed out. I generally keep my brightness setting around 50 or a little lower. I keep the contrast setting anywhere between 60 and 70 on most inputs. Setting contrast too high results in color blooming and crushed whites. Yes, the screen looks nice and bright with higher contrast, but you start to lose some detail if you set it too high.

You'll never get decent black levels on a RP LCD. The advanced iris does a good job when setting it higher than Low, but the noticeable shift in contrast on any setting above Low makes it useless for everyday viewing.

The standard iris setting should be lowered to Min or 1 for low-level lighting or a completely dark room. An iris setting of 2 works good for daytime viewing, and is also good for nightime viewing if you have some lights on.

From there you just need to play with the contrast (Picture) and brightness settings to get a picture that doesn't look washed out. I generally keep my brightness setting around 50 or a little lower. I keep the contrast setting anywhere between 60 and 70 on most inputs. Setting contrast too high results in color blooming and crushed whites. Yes, the screen looks nice and bright with higher contrast, but you start to lose some detail if you set it too high.


For some reason if I bring my brightness level down near 50 my entire picture gets very shadowy, so 70 seems to be a good spot just before it starts to get washed. Also I used peoples skin color to determine a good contrast (picture) setting and 65 seemed to give realistic color to skin tones across channels without blushing them out. I guess room lighting becomes a big factor in individual settings with RP LCD. Is there a suggested way to light a room for this kind of set? I ask because my apartment is new and has no real lighting scheme yet, just a small lamp next to my A10!

The KDFE50A10 just showed up on the canadian sonystyle website. They list august 29 as the expected date of arrival. It's listed at 3199.99 (canadian)

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1001599&navigationPath=n32050n45260

Sweet, it seems my dealer was right a month ago when he said about Sept 1st. Lets hope they ship on time!

Slight improvement over the WE655, nothing groundbreaking. The black levels are still obviously LCD. (My father has the WE655 so Ive viewed this extensively). Didn't get to mess with the auto iris, but is was a dark scene so it was maxed out.

IMO, It still pales in comparision to the Samsung HLP5085W, which is the best non-plasma display I've seen yet. Decent black levels, little noise, and very, very sharp for a DLP.

Of course, the Panny HD plasma next to them blew them both away =), but over $1K more.

Anyone buy on of these from an online e-tailer yet? I'm considering B&M but the online prices are just to hard to beaat (check pricegrabber for some examples). Just curious what etailers people have used.

. I think more people here need to point out these flaws of the A10 if they are experiencing them. I can't be the only one here that sees misconvergence on the A10. And it's across the entire screen on mine and is off by 1 pixel in some areas. Not good.

How can 1 pixel (PIXEL!!) of misconvergance be a problem? There is no way you could see that at normal viewing distance. I know that people here are a bit more serious about PQ than the average Joe, but a pixel. Really.

Has anyone happen to see any PQ quality difference between the 42 vrs 50 in. I read the smaller screen will achieve better PQ, but not sure if its just a myth. I care about PQ over size.???

Man, so many mixed reviews on this set, makes it hard to make up my mine on picking one up. Only saw it once at a local circuit city an it had a real bad feed going to it. I know it must look better than that, they had the 2004 42 incher with a good feed and it looked great. I suspect that the a10 being newer must be better than last years model right? :confused:

How can 1 pixel (PIXEL!!) of misconvergance be a problem? There is no way you could see that at normal viewing distance. I know that people here are a bit more serious about PQ than the average Joe, but a pixel. Really.

From 8-9 feet (that's a normal distance for a 42" HDTV) it's seen as color fringing around white text, lines, etc. In the case of my TV, the color that's out of alignment is RED which makes it much easier to see than if it were blue or green. A CRT, which can rarely have perfect convergence, doesn't normally exibit misconvergence across the entire screen as it does on my 42A10. To me this is just unacceptable for a $2000 TV that's advertised for having NO MISCONVERGENCE. Had this issue only showed up in one corner of the screen I wouldn't be complaining and would live with it. But, the entire screen?

After talking with Sony they said it would most likely need to be serviced. I opted to just get it exchanged and hope that the next one is better. If not I'll move on to DLP or save up some more money for a flat panel.

npm: Does the TiVO compress the image when it records/stores it? If so that would probably explain the problem. I get very annoyed with pixelation and I've only seen it in two cases. One is when watching some programs on my OTA PBS digital channel and another was while watching some Nascar on NBC - just to see what it looked like. But, I now believe these instances are the stations' fault not the TV's - in other words, the station is sending a rather compressed signal. The reason for this belief is based on watching stuff like MNF and Jay Leno and baseball HD broadcasts (again, all OTA) and being blown away by the PQ.

One other thing to try, if you haven't, is to turn "cinemotion" on. It's a setting in the video settings menu somewhere, iirc. I'm not sure it makes a difference, but I have it turned on and it is supposedly there for handling fast moving scenes.

Hope this helps,


Mitch

My understanding is that the DirecTV HD TiVo simply passes the data as it is received. Unlike the stand alone, there is no additional encode, decode process. I have heard, however, that the picture on the HD TiVo is softer than the non-DVR HD STB's. There is also the issue of downconverted HD from DirecTV. Both of my STB's connected to my A10 are DVR's, so maybe there is some loss there as well.

My original reaction to this TV was in comparison to the HS510.

I thought I had the Cinemotion on, but I hadn't switched it on each input. My old HS510 had only one setting for all inputs. I really appreciate having the independent settings. I have also switched the output of both STB's to 720p.

In watching some of tonights ESPN NFL game, there were some choice shots. Despite the weather, the close ups on the Jags players looked really good. I finally thought, WOW! The motion artifacts were there, but not as pronounced as before.

I was just watching something DiscoveryHD that also looked really good.

SportsCenter looks really good right now.

I agree with another post, this set seems to really shine in darker environments. My living room faces south and west, so from noon to dark this set is hard to watch. When the sun goes down, I am a happy(ier) camper.

I have also reduced the temp setting to Warm 1, increased the sharpness and turned NR off as suggested.

I had a gander through the service menu, but it is beyond me. Completely different than my older set and even different from the GWIV service menu. I look forward to suggestions and settings starting to appear.

I really think this set has a lot of potential. A lot of its potential will depend on me spending the time to learn it, from user settings to the service menu. I look forward to it.

b

Anyone buy on of these from an online e-tailer yet? I'm considering B&M but the online prices are just to hard to beaat (check pricegrabber for some examples). Just curious what etailers people have used.

I bought from 6th ave. in NJ. I am in LA, CA. I ordered on Monday and got it the next Tuesday. I was nervous, but it was fine. No dead pixels or uneven color/misconvergence that others have found. I have my issues with this set that I outlined yesterday, but I am working through that. Just BE SURE you want it before you take advantage of the e-tail price advantage.

b

The cable dude came yesteday and hooked up a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD HD-DVR box. The problem I was having with wide stretching with the DirecTV Samsung 360 receiver is gone. I was sure it was the TV, but glad it was the DirecTV receiver.

See my earlier posts if interested.

I must say, with only 1/2 day of use, that this 8300HD box is pretty darn slick. I have it set to generate 720P output, since that is native for the A10; why scale it more than once.

I must say, with only 1/2 day of use, that this 8300HD box is pretty darn slick. I have it set to generate 720P output, since that is native for the A10; why scale it more than once.

I think this TV does a better job at downscaling 1080i HD content than my cable box. I use a Motorola 6412, and when I set it to output 720p everything looks softer compared to a 1080i output. This might not make a difference if you're using an HDMI output from the box. But for component out I'd recommend that 1080i be set on the cable box.

Anyone buy on of these from an online e-tailer yet? I'm considering B&M but the online prices are just to hard to beaat (check pricegrabber for some examples). Just curious what etailers people have used.

Just like npm, I'm in the LA area also, I bought from 6 Ave. Best price from an Authorized Sony Dealer. Ordered on Thursday, got a call on Sat from a rep. They gave 3 poss delivery days (W, Th, F). Set was delivered as promised, without a glitch. And, Thankfully no dead pixels. I was very relieved, and I'm very happy with my A10.

Just out of curiosity, everybody seems to be complaining about black levels and a few people have mentioned that their new a10 doesnt look as good as their previous crt rptv. Why are people so hot for this set and then sound disappointed? Why not just get a new sony crt rptv for 1/2 the price? Thanks.

Just out of curiosity, everybody seems to be complaining about black levels and a few people have mentioned that their new a10 doesnt look as good as their previous crt rptv. Why are people so hot for this set and then sound disappointed? Why not just get a new sony crt rptv for 1/2 the price? Thanks.

Personally, I think the black levels are fine when setting the Iris to min or 1. Why did I get this tv over a CRT? PQ was the main factor for my new tv, but not the only important factor (people may hate me for this statement). This display is in my family room, which gets a decent amount of light. The A10 is also light and can be easily moved by my wife and I, and it has an attractive cabinet. If I were getting a TV for a basement or HT room, then I would look more seriously into a large CRT.

By the way, I agree with Dark Rain on setting the Iris to lower levels for nighttime viewing. With my DVD player and HD channels, I truly feel the TV looks best at this setting. I still have black corrector on low, but I will try the off setting to see if it improves on any black crush I may have.

This is MY first HDTV, but my dad has had a WE610 for 2 years. The blacks are better than his GWIII, but overall I would say the picture is similar...with an edge to the A10 for blacks and stronger shadow detail. I looked heavily into the Sammy 5067, JVC DiLA, and some mits DLPs in the same price range (pretty much anything with speakers on the bottom). I still feel the A10 is the best bang for the buck.

What is the NR setting owners are saying to turn off? :confused: Also what does it stand for. :D

I did some poking around last night and realized I had the black corrector set to low. While watching some dark scenes, I toggled it between low and off and could definately tell a difference. Leaving it off, realy improved the shadow detail, however, it make the overall picture "less dark", but I definately prefer it this way. I'm going to leave it off and try recalibrating today to see if that changes anything as well.

And, aside from this little issue, I love my TV :D

Edit: cobbway, NR=Noise Reduction

Got my 50A10 hooked up yesterday. It's my first HDTV, currently connected to DTV via Svideo (changing to DTV HD 10-250 via component today), Samsung DVD HD850 via HDMI, and Xbox.

Other than changing from Vivid to Standard I did very little to the settings, in fact may not have done anything at all on the following inputs.

OTA HD-looked fantastic, watched Leno, which I never do, and was astounded. Great PQ

Sat feed SD signal-no so bad, I wasn't expecting much, nor did I watch it much, but what little I did seemed to be acceptable, in fact it was better than what I thought it might be. Decent PQ

Xbox-played some Ghost Recon Summit Strike, which I don't think is formatted for 16:9 and if memory serves, 480i is greyed out on the back of the box. Point being, I wasn't expecting a whole lot from that feed but it was pretty sweet. I'm upgrading to Xbox 360 this fall. Anyway, I did notice that when I zoomed the weapons things looked really foggy/hazy in the distanced compared to my 3 year old Sony 32" Trinitron CRT. Don't know if it was just greater detail/effects or lack of adjustment. But overall, the current setup is good and has promise. Decent PQ

DVD w/HDMI upconvert-I did fiddle with the settings more here, and used several setups from previous posters. I used Seabiscuit and Blackhawk Down. First off, don't get me wrong, the PQ was pretty darn good. However, I had an expectation that it would knock my socks off and I can't say that it did. Here is where that comes from, In Seabiscuit, I simply could not find a setting that totally satisfied me. Some of the sunny scenes had great color and sharpness but looked like a cloudy day. Blackhawk down, scene was when they were all flying into the Mog and the camera is looking out of the chopper from behind the troops...For the life of me I could find no setting that would allow me to see anything other than the outline of the soldier's helmets. Everything else was solid black. Couldn't make out a character's face. I tried Iris low to high and didn't see much difference.

Questions:

1. I've read the recent posts about 'black crush". I guess I'm experiencing that. Are the setting adjustments you all are recommending working/correcting the issue to some degree? Maybe it's supposed to be like that and I need to get used to it? Will I need to create different day settings and night settings for my viewing? (I get a lot of light in the room during the day and I'm very low lit at night). Comments?

2. At one point during the OTA HD broadcast of Leno I experienced a lip sync issue. I understand this concept if a component is feeding video to the TV and audio to a reciever, but I don't understand it on an OTA broadcast (I was using the TV speakers on that btw). Is it the TV or the nature of the beast of HD? Have I missed an audio setting?

Should have mentioned earlier that I'm a relative newbie at this stuff...

Peace out.

I too am interested in the severity of "black crush". I'm currently on the fence between the 42" A10 and the 960 XBR (CRT). When I heard people talking about poor handling of blacks, I went down to the Sony store in Paramus, NJ. They were showing an HD Net feed of some sort of red carpet/celeb interview show. I saw people in black and charcoal suits and thought... 'looks black to me'. At the time I shrugged the black issue off (assuming my eye wasn't discerning enough to see the issue). After the last few posts I realize I may have been misinterpreting the 'issue' and that it actually relates to poor display of dark scenes.

Thanks to everyone that posts here. Hearing your experiences are really helpful in making a decision :)

I too am interested in the severity of "black crush". I'm currently on the fence between the 42" A10 and the 960 XBR (CRT). When I heard people talking about poor handling of blacks, I went down to the Sony store in Paramus, NJ. They were showing an HD Net feed of some sort of red carpet/celeb interview show. I saw people in black and charcoal suits and thought... 'looks black to me'. At the time I shrugged the black issue off (assuming my eye wasn't discerning enough to see the issue). After the last few posts I realize I may have been misinterpreting the 'issue' and that it actually relates to poor display of dark scenes.

Thanks to everyone that posts here. Hearing your experiences are really helpful in making a decision :)

Don't get me wrong, I really like this TV. I spent what was for me, a pretty significant amount of time looking a different models/technologies. I always could see some difference here and there and buy no means am I an expert at this. I will say what many others go with what looks good to you and what your gut says.

In fairness to the TV, I haven't spent a lot of time tweaking just yet, not that I want to spend countless hours doing that. Furthermore, if I walked into somebody else's place and saw this TV I would think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. This site has helped me tremendously in my quest to understand how all this stuff works. But for me personally it also has some drawbacks-some of the things I am now obsessing over-had I not read about them I may have never noticed, understood or cared.

Are any of you guys experiencing huge differences in volume on some of the HD channels?
On some channels I am comfortable with a volume of the 6-10.
On INHD,INHD2 and HDDiscovery, plus others I really have to crank the volume.
usually around 38 or even higher.

i agree !

Are any of you guys experiencing huge differences in volume on some of the HD channels?
On some channels I am comfortable with a volume of the 6-10.
On INHD,INHD2 and HDDiscovery, plus others I really have to crank the volume.
usually around 38 or even higher.

I have the same problems with sound levels, and my cable box sound output runs directly to my receiver...not via the TV. So in other words..yes it is irritating, and no it isn't your tv causing the problem. One would think the industry would have a standard for volume levels by now...oh well.

Slight improvement over the WE655, nothing groundbreaking. The black levels are still obviously LCD. (My father has the WE655 so Ive viewed this extensively). Didn't get to mess with the auto iris, but is was a dark scene so it was maxed out.

IMO, It still pales in comparision to the Samsung HLP5085W, which is the best non-plasma display I've seen yet. Decent black levels, little noise, and very, very sharp for a DLP.

Couldn't disagree more. I was at Sears and they had the new Sony 50" sitting right next to the Samsung 50" and the Sony blew it away. The 3 other people I was with agreed. The Sammy was very muted and washed out, not to mention SSE. Black level was the same, so either the Sony is very good with black levels, or the Sammy is very bad. I had been starting to consider the Sammy, but now my decision is firm to go with the Sony (when I have the money!).

They had the old WE655 too and the new Sony beat it hands down.

For those people with a Fry's near you....... Check out today's ad for a nice price on the 50"

I too am interested in the severity of "black crush". I'm currently on the fence between the 42" A10 and the 960 XBR (CRT). When I heard people talking about poor handling of blacks, I went down to the Sony store in Paramus, NJ. They were showing an HD Net feed of some sort of red carpet/celeb interview show. I saw people in black and charcoal suits and thought... 'looks black to me'. At the time I shrugged the black issue off (assuming my eye wasn't discerning enough to see the issue). After the last few posts I realize I may have been misinterpreting the 'issue' and that it actually relates to poor display of dark scenes.

I think there are two different but related issues: the deepness, "trueness" and just plain darkness of the black or dark parts of the image; and the amount of detail rendered within those dark areas. From my experience, the A10 produces very nice, dark blacks for an LCD RP, but the detail in the dark areas of the image is lacking.

They had the old WE655 too and the new Sony beat it hands down.

Be wary about comparisons between the A10 and its predessessor in retail stores, since the lamps in the older models are likely to have been burning for thousands of hours.

After reading this forum and spending countless hours at different stores I ordered the 50A10 online from sixth avenue 20% below MSRP. The TV is awesome regarding the PQ. I was setting up the Remote to work for Sony DVD player as well, in the manual it says there is a "F1" button for Disc change on the remote, but I don't see it. Are there any alternate controls that I need to map to?

For those people with a Fry's near you....... Check out today's ad for a nice price on the 50"
.... As you correctly predicted, if I remember correctly! :D

Thanks!!

I think this TV does a better job at downscaling 1080i HD content than my cable box. I use a Motorola 6412, and when I set it to output 720p everything looks softer compared to a 1080i output. This might not make a difference if you're using an HDMI output from the box. But for component out I'd recommend that 1080i be set on the cable box
From what I've read about the SA8000HD and SA8300HD boxes, its better to let them pass through the content and let the TV handle the resolution.

My analog and digital channels are at 480i. ABC & ESPN HD are at 720p, and other HD content is at 1080i.

Not an expert, just passing on what I read, which could be wrong.

I have the same problems with sound levels, and my cable box sound output runs directly to my receiver...not via the TV. So in other words..yes it is irritating, and no it isn't your tv causing the problem. One would think the industry would have a standard for volume levels by now...oh well.

Isnt there an audio leveling feature in the audio menu? I thought i remember seeing that option..

CHris

At times under calibrating Sony A10's, I see a reference to "Powerstrip, a download". What is POWERSTRIP and how is it used? :) :)

After reading this forum and spending countless hours at different stores I ordered the 50A10 online from sixth avenue 20% below MSRP. The TV is awesome regarding the PQ. I was setting up the Remote to work for Sony DVD player as well, in the manual it says there is a "F1" button for Disc change on the remote, but I don't see it. Are there any alternate controls that I need to map to?

The bottom part of the remote slides down to expose a couple of more buttons.

I've been reading this very informative thread for the past few days, but it has gotten so complicated I need some simple answers if you will.

I have a 17 year old Sony 27 " in my living room that I want to replace. I also have a 10 year old Sony KP41T25 Rear Projection in my den which has my DVD and surround sound hooked up.

I am strongly considering the 40"A10 model to replace the 27". I do not intend to hook up the surround sound nor the DVD to this TV. The room is in the interior of the house (windowless) with no direct sunlight. The couch and the chair are approximately 10' away.

I do not want (nor my wife) to have to be changing settings based on day and evening.

I originally was thinking about the monster CRT models but the weight and depth of the units are a no no per the wife. I then looked at the Sony 32"LCD models but saw the 40"A10 for 200 less money.

I have a Time Warner Digital box that I will exchange for the HD box. So, will I be satisfied with non HD channels on this TV and will it meet my basic needs for a great picture for movies and HD programing with little or no hassle.

I intend to upgrade the 41" in the den if and when it ever goes out. Ten years and never a problem even after 7 moves.

I appreciate any and all help you can give this very basic viewer.

2. At one point during the OTA HD broadcast of Leno I experienced a lip sync issue. I understand this concept if a component is feeding video to the TV and audio to a reciever, but I don't understand it on an OTA broadcast (I was using the TV speakers on that btw). Is it the TV or the nature of the beast of HD? Have I missed an audio setting?

Should have mentioned earlier that I'm a relative newbie at this stuff...

Peace out.
The lip-sync issue is a problem that is common to NBC....has nothing to do with the cable provider, antenna, or the tv. It occurs frequently on many of their HD programs.

I had my 42610 swapped out for the new A10 and I think there is a noticable difference. Used both Avia and THX, using the Zenith 318 DVD player and I think this TV blows the 610 away. for the 1st time since I switched from a HD tube to RP I see depth again. Watched all 3 LoTR, Spiderman 2 on both HD and DVD, Incredibles, Monsters Inc, etc... for the price I do not think it's gets better than this.

Lower res than the 610 but still a very sharp picture and the black level are excellent IMO. No regrets at all...

For those people with a Fry's near you....... Check out today's ad for a nice price on the 50"

No luck with Fry's here in the bay area. :( Hopefully next week, my 30 days are running out.

What is the NR setting owners are saying to turn off? :confused: Also what does it stand for. :D


Noise Reduction. It is the next option after sharpness.

The bottom part of the remote slides down to expose a couple of more buttons.

Somewhere in the bowels of my memory, I believe I read somewhere that the A10 remote was not programmed for Sony's DVD players. It was an oversight that they hope to correct in a future release of the remote's firmware. Or, something like that. So, try it, but if it doesn't work, this could be why.


Mitch

I did some poking around last night and realized I had the black corrector set to low. While watching some dark scenes, I toggled it between low and off and could definately tell a difference. Leaving it off, realy improved the shadow detail, however, it make the overall picture "less dark", but I definately prefer it this way. I'm going to leave it off and try recalibrating today to see if that changes anything as well.

And, aside from this little issue, I love my TV :D

Edit: cobbway, NR=Noise Reduction

Hi puckfreak, what exactly are you using to calibrate this set? To get the best blacks you really need to set greyscale and the equipment to do that is not cheap.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=567709

In the above (apparently dead) thread, a member posted a possible red push fix for our A10's.

I am reposting it (with my response in that thread) here in order to spur on the conversation.

So I got my set yesterday and using a THX optimizer disc set my video settings to the following values for each input:

Picture mode: Custom
Iris: 2 for controlled movie room lighting; 3 or 4 for daytime TV
Picture: 60
Brightness: 39
Color: 38
Hue: default
Color Temp: Warm 2
Sharpness: non-progressive DVD player- 38; Antenna-DT 34 (I still need to check HD)
Noise Reduction: off
DRC: High Density
DRC Pallette: default
Black Correction: off
Adv Vid- Advanced Iris: low
Adv Vid- Gamma: low
Adv Vid- Clear white: off
Adv Vid- Live Color: off

The picture then looked pretty good but with some red push; so I tried to lower that using the umr gwii tweaks and GWIV tweeks thread info but the service menu has changed. I poked around anyway and came up with the following change that seems to lower red-push. Unfortunately it looked to me (using only the THX optimizer color bars) like it added a slight amount of green push at the same time it lowered the red push. I have neither the service manual nor the test equipment to properly calibrate the color decoder but I am going to post what I tried anyway. If you try this it will be a little like taking painting advice from someone who has always been blind but I don't know if we could ever convince a real calibrator to post the correct fix. Maybe we will get lucky and umr will pitty us and give us a clue after he has cal'ed an A10.

*** Warning: messing around in the service menu can damage your TV which would not be covered by warranty ***
Before messing around in the service menu you should read the info posted for the earlier GW tweak threads. It would also be a good idea to get a service manual from Sony parts first.

Red Push Lowering:

(step -1) Start with a TV where all needed inputs have already been configured to best custom mode settings
(step 0) If necessary turn off TV and wait for bulb to turn off
(step 1) Press the following 4 key sequence without a pause:
(display) (5) (Volume +) (Power)
(step 2) Wait the normal turn on time for the debug screen to appear
(step 3) Select the desired input (ex. Press TV/Video) with a signal present- preferably a color test signal
(step 4) Press (jump) twice to get to service data screen
(step 5) Press (2) eight times to get to CST category
(step 6) Press (1) once to get to CHAXIS 1 item
(step 7) Write down current setting
(step 8) Change the item value from 46 to 45 or from 2c to 2b by pressing (6) to decrement the value by one. Observe the effect on the display, press (3) to increment setting back if desired
(step 9) To save the new value press (mute) (ent) and wait for write to complete, skip this step if no change is desired
(step 10) Press (jump) to return to the debug screen
Repeat steps 3 through 10 for each input and resolution, skipping steps 8 and 9 if the value is already decremented. I only needed to change one SD and one HD value for the other inputs to show the new value.
(step 11) From debug screen press (power) to turn the TV off and wait for the bulb to go out


After making the change I increased the Color settings for each input to 40. I have not played a wide variety of content on the TV yet so I will probably continue to adjust the user settings like color and sharpness.

[edit: changed repeat to steps 3 to 10]

My response:

Good tip.

My default for the CH_AXIS1 setting was 003C. When I went to 003B the red push definitely was minimized, but as you said, a green push was added. For fun, I continued to decrease the value and when I hit 0002 the red was minimized without increasing the green. It seems that each setting number has an effect, but not a incremental one. I will be curious to know what you think!

Please post any additonal details about the service menu. I had an older Sony set and got comfortable with the service menu. The A10 menu is significantly different and I can't make heads or tails of it.

I am especially curious if you have figured out any of the MID-5 type settings. I didn't see those parameter names when I cycled through the menu.

Also, I noticed a category called PC_CONFIG. In that category (25) there is a parameter called PANEL_UNDER_SCAN. I got very excited when I saw it, but it appeared to have no effect on the Under Scan of input 7. Any thoughts?

I hope this thread picks up. Keeping up with the huge 2500 post A10 thread is tough. The tweek info and dialog gets lost in the mix.

Thanks.


I guess that thread has no life and this thread is THE one to follow, so I am curious what you guys think!!

b

I did some poking around last night and realized I had the black corrector set to low. While watching some dark scenes, I toggled it between low and off and could definately tell a difference. Leaving it off, realy improved the shadow detail, however, it make the overall picture "less dark", but I definately prefer it this way. I'm going to leave it off and try recalibrating today to see if that changes anything as well.

And, aside from this little issue, I love my TV :D

Edit: cobbway, NR=Noise Reduction

Indeed, it seems a quick & dirty way to get better shadow detail is to turn that black corrector off, though it seems you then give up some perfection in the black levels. If that is an unacceptable/annoying trade-off for one's particular viewing pleasure, then I'm beginning to think this TV will not be a good one for such a person.

PuckF, I'm like you - I really can't stand bad/no shadow detail, no matter how black the blacks are. Give me good shadow detail and I'll happily turn over some loss in absolute blacks. Interestingly, I do notice the black level loss right after I adjust the black corrector (while simultaneously noticing the much better shadow detail), but once I watch the TV for about 30 seconds, I completely don't notice it and I find myself just loving the picture and the better shadow detail.

Black corrector set to "off" makes more difference in shadow detail than any other setting in this department, so far for me. That said, I'm looking forward to having a professional ISF calibration done and hopefully enjoying a picture quality far better than my amateur futzing around with the controls can achieve. Will let you know how that goes when it happens . . .

Has anyone found a code for the Sony 50A10 remote that will allow it to control a DirecTV HD Tivo box? It seems like quite a few people who buy this set would be using DirecTV as a provider.

Sony provides a code for Dish Network, but not DTV.

I'd be happy if I could just get the Sony remote to change channels on the DTV box. :)

Thanks.

No luck with Fry's here in the bay area. :( Hopefully next week, my 30 days are running out.

They have it here for 2K this weekend..that is for the 50 inch model...I am really tempted now!

Hi puckfreak, what exactly are you using to calibrate this set? To get the best blacks you really need to set greyscale and the equipment to do that is not cheap.

DVE and THX optimizer (Incredibles)

I think there are two different but related issues: the deepness, "trueness" and just plain darkness of the black or dark parts of the image; and the amount of detail rendered within those dark areas. From my experience, the A10 produces very nice, dark blacks for an LCD RP, but the detail in the dark areas of the image is lacking.

If you can tolerate (or ultimately not notice, like me) a little less than deep blacks, then turn off the black corrector setting completely. For me and others on this forum, it seems to really help bring out shadow detail, albiet at a cost to absolute black. Give the off setting a minute or so and see if the loss in black level bothers you. Best of luck.

I've had my E42A10 for about two weeks, and have noticed an annoying artifact when watching DVDs with a greater than 16:9 aspect ratio. (In other words, when I've got black bars on the top and bottom.)

The artifact is basically brighter-than-normal white lines right at the top and bottom of the picture itself... right before the black areas start. They are not quite pure white... in fact, they almost seem like a few horizontal lines of the picture condensed into one.

Has anyone noticed anything similar? I'm willing to entertain the notion that it's being caused by my DVD player, but I never saw the symptom on the 42WE655 I had for about a month.

I have a Time Warner Digital box that I will exchange for the HD box. So, will I be satisfied with non HD channels on this TV and will it meet my basic needs for a great picture for movies and HD programing with little or no hassle.


Exchange the box for an hd dvr so you won't have to worry about it, that much.

This thread is still rapidly expanding and I don't understand why.
Everything is repetitive and I don't mean that as a knock at all but man, can't we generate some one on one insults, fights, trailer park induced tantrums?
Just to make it interesting?
I'll start.....
You, yeah you know who I am refering to.
You are so low, you play handball against the curb!
:D

Exchanging the cable box for the HD DVR is a definite. Based on my basic TV viewing will this TV meet my needs with minimal adjustments by wife or myself.

Can someone please explain when I'm recieving and OTA broadcast, and the display screen says 1080i 16:9, why I'm getting the black bands on the sides of the screen? I thought the normal display should be full screen. The "wide" options distort the picture and make it look worse. I'm confused.

I am in the market for a new big screen. Any opinions about reliability of the new Sony units.

1) I am curious about Sony's reliabilty.
and..
2) Are the more of less reliable than DLP?

I really like the PQ on the new Sony 55(6) inch

Turtles, plan and simple. On the HD channels like NBC and ABC, any show that is not in HD will have the black bars on the left and right side. Where as channels like the Discovery Channel HD is 24/7HD so there will be no bars ever on the left and right side.

I've had my E42A10 for about two weeks, and have noticed an annoying artifact when watching DVDs with a greater than 16:9 aspect ratio. (In other words, when I've got black bars on the top and bottom.)

The artifact is basically brighter-than-normal white lines right at the top and bottom of the picture itself... right before the black areas start. They are not quite pure white... in fact, they almost seem like a few horizontal lines of the picture condensed into one.

Has anyone noticed anything similar? I'm willing to entertain the notion that it's being caused by my DVD player, but I never saw the symptom on the 42WE655 I had for about a month.


I've also noticed this on my E50 with some but not all dvd's. It is very noticeable while watching The Incredibles, for example, but I don't see it when watching any of the star wars movies. I'm using a very cheap Phillips progressive scan dvd player so maybe that's the culprit. I'm going to watch some movies using my xbox to see if it does the same thing.

I've also noticed this on my E50 with some but not all dvd's. It is very noticeable while watching The Incredibles, for example, but I don't see it when watching any of the star wars movies. I'm using a very cheap Phillips progressive scan dvd player so maybe that's the culprit. I'm going to watch some movies using my xbox to see if it does the same thing.
It might be edge enhancement, which gets applied to some DVDs to smooth out edges around people, objects, etc. This effect produces a 'halo' around everything, including the line between the black bars and where the frame of the film is since it is an 'edge'. The black bars are part of the image and are not produced by the DVD player. The player will only produce black bars when doing an anamorphic downconversion for 4:3 TVs.

I've had my 42A10 for a few days now. I'm feeding Comcast cable directly into the set & get local HD channels.

I too noticed "The beginning of The Tonight Show, when there are a lot of audience pans, also has a ton of pixelization." I was surprised as I've heard that Comcast delivers HD at full bandwidth / bit rate / etc.

I started watching the DVDs of "Firefly" the TV series on my old Sony 27" XBR. Then switched over to the A10. Initially I was blown away by the PQ. But there are a lot of dark scenes in the movie and black detail was gone. You could not tell dark hair from the darkened room. It all looked black. I hooked up the CRT again and was amazed at the difference in shadow detail. There just wasn't any with the A10.

I used the Avia DVD and made some adjustments which helped a bit. And then tweaked some more. But I have a long way to go in order to get decent shadow detail.

Custom
Iris 2, but then went to 3
Picture - 80, but then went back to 90
Brightness - 52
Color - 39
Hue - G7, but then went to G4
Color Temp - Neutral
Sharpness - Min

I have not tried adjusting the Black Corrector or other settings yet, but I will.

Overall the picture is sharp and looks good. But that black crush is way too much. What holds me back from a 34" CRT is the weight & the price. I'd hate to spend about the same for a much smaller size set, and not be able to move it.

I've been following this thread from the beginning and thank everyone for their input.

Mike

The Black Corrector setting is the key to getting better shadow detail. Turn it off completely, then lower the iris (2 and under), set dynamic iris to low, and then finally adjust using the brightness control to where you like it.

Can someone please explain when I'm recieving and OTA broadcast, and the display screen says 1080i 16:9, why I'm getting the black bands on the sides of the screen? I thought the normal display should be full screen. The "wide" options distort the picture and make it look worse. I'm confused.

It's because the signal may be 1080i 16:9, but the programming is 4:3. Same thing happens when you're watching HD 16:9 content and they show commercials that are shot in 4:3.

After reading this forum and spending countless hours at different stores I ordered the 50A10 online from sixth avenue 20% below MSRP. The TV is awesome regarding the PQ. I was setting up the Remote to work for Sony DVD player as well, in the manual it says there is a "F1" button for Disc change on the remote, but I don't see it. Are there any alternate controls that I need to map to?

What kind of follow-up call did you get from 6th Ave? Did they give you the rock-hard sell on stands, bulbs, and extended warranties? If so, what did you buy and at what price?

with all the talk from owners about "black crush" and lack of shadow details, are any of you a10 owners suffering from buyers remorse? Are you happy with your sets or just trying to make the best out of your purchase? Would you recommend this tv to a friend?

Also to add: Is the black crush or any other issues worse off than the 50" GW IV????
My cousin has the gw IV and I love it. I might just go with the older model if the A10's are worse off.

Turtles, plan and simple. On the HD channels like NBC and ABC, any show that is not in HD will have the black bars on the left and right side. Where as channels like the Discovery Channel HD is 24/7HD so there will be no bars ever on the left and right side.

But whatever it was that was on, I checked on the channel's website and it said it was an HDTV show. (I know I'm soundling like a newbie, I am)

It's because the signal may be 1080i 16:9, but the programming is 4:3. Same thing happens when you're watching HD 16:9 content and they show commercials that are shot in 4:3.

Well, I get what you are saying, but I sort of don't. Why wouldn't the program be 16:9? Is it just the network's discretion?

I've had my E42A10 for about two weeks, and have noticed an annoying artifact when watching DVDs with a greater than 16:9 aspect ratio. (In other words, when I've got black bars on the top and bottom.)

The artifact is basically brighter-than-normal white lines right at the top and bottom of the picture itself... right before the black areas start. They are not quite pure white... in fact, they almost seem like a few horizontal lines of the picture condensed into one.

We have the 50" Panny RPLCD on display at work and i noticed the same thing--thought maybe it was our bad setup/cheap DVD player. Hopefully there are A10 owners out there who can confirm they DON'T have it--then you know it' gotta be something other than the TV.

Another week or two for us Canucks and they'll be here!!!!


JASON

with all the talk from owners about "black crush" and lack of shadow details, are any of you a10 owners suffering from buyers remorse? Are you happy with your sets or just trying to make the best out of your purchase? Would you recommend this tv to a friend?

It's not as bad as some people are saying. The only time it becomes a minor annoyance is when there are night scenes in a movie and shadow detail becomes very limited. I have found that on some DVDs that setting the advanced iris to Medium or even High doesn't cause it to change the contrast much, and delivers a really good black level with nice shadow detail. It's almost near CRT quality in that respect, but it's best to keep it on Low for most things.

I would recommend the A10 to someone that's not that critical about PQ. You have to make a compromise regarding the black level for the size, weight, and cost of the A10. It delivers a very solid image for the price, but also has a few limitations that you'll either learn to live with or will eventually grow to hate.

Well, I get what you are saying, but I sort of don't. Why wouldn't the program be 16:9? Is it just the network's discretion?

It's not so much discretion as how the program was created. If it was not filmed in 16:9 they cannot broadcast in 16:9. More and more network programs are being filmed in 16:9 but not all. And obviously old programs (Seinfeld, Friends, etc.) will forever be 4:3 and have black bars on the sides. The only way for the networks to display these non-16:9 filmed shows in 16:9 is the same way your TV tries to - stretch or crop.

Resolution switch problem............

When I set my D* H10 stb to resolutions all / native on when I change channels that change resolution the TV is not switching. All I get are ////////////////// lines.

Help please.

WOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!

Just got my KDFE50A10 last night . Hooked it up and havent gotten the HD connection running yet but it looks SWEET!!!!

Question: I'm planning to use an Off air HD antenna. Any suggestions??

We use the Terk type that looks like an arrow with several prongs. Cost $39. Works great for HD but not too good on ota regular channels.

Brad

Went to Sears with the Fry's advertisement in hand and they matched the Fry's price plus an additional 10% off. They didn't have any 42" sets in the store but mine will be delivered from the warehouse on Wednesday. I really like the Samsung 46" DLP since its a bit bigger (for the size of the cabinet) and IMO the PQ is a bit better with the Samsung but I was getting a headache when I was looking at the DLPs so I worried whether I would be able to watch it once I got it home. I am looking forward to getting the set and playing with the settings when it arrives.

Dark Rain,

I was playing a bit last night with my 42A10 & trying to improve shadow detail. As some have suggested, I turned Black Corrector to off. This made a noticeable difference.

I did play with the Advanced Iris also, but I'm not convinced which setting is best. You mentioned that Medium or High "doesn't cause it to change the contrast much, and delivers a really good black level with nice shadow detail. It's almost near CRT quality in that respect, but it's best to keep it on Low for most things." Could you please expound on this a bit. If Med or Hi is almost CRT quality, then why would you want to set this to Low?

Mike

Why do you want to try and spoil a perfectly good thread with this kind of crap? If you don't find this thread interesting, or you don't want to read anything more about the Sony A10s then don't read it, or go start your own nonsense thread, but don't try and spoil this thread for everyone else.

Holy smokes Batman,

BYZ2X9 and I were having some fun. Take a pill, chill, have a beer, glass of wine or a qualude. Whatever, but if you had of seen the grins and winks then you would realize that it was in fun.
Are you a guy or a woman?
Not trying to be critical, but guys do this for fun.
I really didn't mean that I would come down and burn your Government Building down and I didn't really mean that anyone is so low that they play handball against the curb.
As for the topic at hand, I am here for you.....just ask me anything and I will tell you the answer......
:confused:

Hey all,
As we probably know, the 50inch A10 is on sonystyle.ca and I was hoping we could help each other out by posting where you(us) see them for the first time and if someone buys them could tell us where and what kind of Extended Warranty might have been purchased etc....Afterall, we have mostly spent a month or so monitoring this thread and learning everything about the TV.
Let's make it a pact to help each other out. Oh, and for those that are not in the Toronto area, I will appreciate your input too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;) ;) :p

Some advice please. We live out of range of OTA reception and 100 miles from any B&M other than Walmart. Our cable now offers 3 HD stations plus some HD offerings from the networks. I'm looking to the future but until they upgrade, PQ on SDTV is important. I had decided on the A10, which I can have delivered for $250 below MSRP from PlasmaBay or 6th Ave. This thread has raised a question in my mind about how well the A10 displays SD.
So two questions,
1. How well does an A10 display SD in comparison to SD on a qualty CRT?
2. SD on an A10 aganst an, in the neighborhood priced, EDTV? Probably a Panny as I saw no PQ difference between Panny EDTV and Panny HDTV displayed at Costco and the price plus tax and $28 for gas (%@$*&), while a bit more, may be worth the no hassle return policy.

Dark Rain,

I was playing a bit last night with my 42A10 & trying to improve shadow detail. As some have suggested, I turned Black Corrector to off. This made a noticeable difference.

I did play with the Advanced Iris also, but I'm not convinced which setting is best. You mentioned that Medium or High "doesn't cause it to change the contrast much, and delivers a really good black level with nice shadow detail. It's almost near CRT quality in that respect, but it's best to keep it on Low for most things." Could you please expound on this a bit. If Med or Hi is almost CRT quality, then why would you want to set this to Low?

Mike

Setting the advanced iris to Medium or High will cause a noticeable shift in contrast from scene to scene in a movie or TV show since it's automatically opening and closing. At Low the effect is barely detectable and that's why I mentioned keeping it on Low. It can be distracting when it's set on High or Medium depending on the source, but it really improves the black level and contrast. The problem is that on most things, the contrast varies greatly making a higher setting than Low basically useless.

An update on my sage for anyone who was following, lol....I was unfortunate enough to get a 50a10 w/ a hair like feature on the bottom left hand corner (pics posted previously) and I worked w/ PC Richards to order a replacement. I called yesterday night and they told me the TV was in and to come get it this morning. Well I called before I left and everything was ok. i got to the store and the 1st thing the employee said is that he couldn't really see the defect and it wasn't a big deal but the manager said "thats not right, get him a new tv". Well 1/2 hr later i was still sitting there waiting so I went to find the salesman....

I wasn't surprised at what he said when he told me that another salesman stole mine and sold it this morning. I was pissed!! Did i mention i drove almost 2 hours to get there and the store has a NO REFUND policy for tvs over 30" and they were sticking to it? They offered me $200 off the display and I was like are you kidding me?? I then asked for a refund and they said absoultely not. I was pretty ticked at this point but I started checking out the other tvs there and the panny 50" hd plasma caught my eye which was on sale for **edit price $$$.

Anyway to make a long story short I walked out w/ the panny for ***EDIT $removed price *** which was about $200 under invoice! (i saw it in the computer). Needless to say this tv is incredible!! I'm so glad that dude sold my tv now - i spent a little more but it was well worth it after I got it setup at my house!

**sorry just read forum rules and didn't want anything closed b/c of my foolishness

It's the Z-line 23541S from Circuit City.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-TV-Stand-23541S-/sem/rpsm/oid/69535/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
Wondring if anyone has put the 50 inch on it yet. I know it says 36 but it is 43 inches wide.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this great thread here... I bought the 42 incher today having it delivered in a few days. My question is does anyone have any positive experiences using a cable card? After doing some research it seems everyone only posts negative reviews when using a cable card. Thanks.

The Black Corrector setting is the key to getting better shadow detail. Turn it off completely, then lower the iris (2 and under), set dynamic iris to low, and then finally adjust using the brightness control to where you like it.
This is great advice to getting the set tweaked 'just right'. The A10 has been growing on me tremendously once I made a few critical adjustments. HDTV & DVD's are *amazing* and everything else more then acceptable. The clarity is the set's strong point. As someone stated before this set has nice blacks but the color detail in 'dark' scenes is still better in CRT, but besides that single issue, this LCD leaves CRT in the stone ages IMO.

I watched Sin City on DVD last night and felt like I had a private theater!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this great thread here... I bought the 42 incher today having it delivered in a few days. My question is does anyone have any positive experiences using a cable card? After doing some research it seems everyone only posts negative reviews when using a cable card. Thanks.

:thumbsup: I'm also looking for cableCARD compatibility with the a10s.

I haven't posted in two whole weeks. I had originally planned on posting after catching up with the thread but this thread is growing like crazy and I doubt I'll be able to catch up.

Judging by a few posts speckled here and there about PQ had me concerned whether or not people have their tv setup right. Have said that I've had the 50A10 for the past two weeks and I'm in love with this set.

This is my first HDTV. If you're in the same boat as I am don't expect to plug everything in and have everything working as it should. Some adjustments have to be made especially if you're coming from a non-hdtv and/or non-widescreen tv as in my case.

1)
As another poster mentioned, go into your DVD setup menu and make sure your DVD player is setup for Widescreen output. From the Sony input settings for the DVD make sure you have it set on FULL. If you're DVD is not setup for widescreen that requires you to set your DVD input on the Sony to Zoom. There is some loss of PQ if you do this. The difference in PQ was night and day for me.

2)
If you're using a cable box then you have to make adjustments to that too. Use the component out or the DVI/HDMI out of the cable box. I have a Motorola DCT-6200 (with HD service from Comcast) and it will not pass through HD signals through any other input (i.e. composite, s-video, coax). Go into the menu for the STB and set it up for Widescreen as well as 720P. The combination of these changes has been night and day as well. There were no instructions with this STB when it was delivered, some googling will pull the manuals you need. On the Sony end I have it setup so that Widescreen is displayed in Full while 4:3 material is displayed in Normal.

When you first get this TV don't hope for it to solve world hunger. Be a little realistic about your expectations and you'll be more comfortable with your decision :rolleyes:

Blacks are really black with black corrector at low, but you lose some shadow detail. I toggle the setting depending on if I'm watching cable tv or a movie (and what kind of movie). I personally have the advanced iris to OFF. But I love the fact that it has an adjustable iris. I've read a few posts from people that complained about how it didn't make their coffee table levitate. Just take a glance over at the GWIII and/or the Panny LCD RPTV thread and see how many people are performing the ND filter mod to get decent shadow detail. But with this TV you have it all within your fingertips.

Not all movies are the same, some are dark, light, fast moving, remastered, etc. Likewise I can adjust the setting of the A10 to suit the movie I'm watching. To me, the adjustable iris offers a great deal of flexibility.

This set does a fantastic job of de-interlacing/scaling my 480i DVD player. I considered purchasing a HD Upconverter before receiving the TV but after I tested it out I was very impressed and decided to hold out for a HD-DVD player early next year.

In regards to question about SD quality. Really you should ask yourself how good is your SD feed? Check out the other forum a couple of mouse clicks away. I have Comcast digital and most of the channels come out are very good with a few that are poor. The PQ is as good as my Sharp 27" CRT xflat TV. The channels that do come out poor are the channels that Comcast has not digitized as of yet. Currently, in my area Comcast is still working on digitizing channels like ABC, KCAL9, etc. But I knew these channels would come out terrible before I took possession of the A10 because they looked terrible on my CRT TV with the digital cable box as well. Some commercials look really bad while others look great. So ask your cable company if most of the channels in their feed are digitized or not. There's alot of primetime HD programming in my area so I don't watch watch other channels as much.


Oh btw, I bought this stand:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Centrios-60-TV-Stand-C22110-/sem/rpsm/oid/121372/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

And it looks really nice with the A10 some might find it too high if you plan on sitting upright at eye level with the tv. Its perfect for me since I like to lay back on the sofa when i'm watching tv.

Finally got (almost) everything set up tonight. Stands are Sanus AFDVg and AFAg. I have the 6200 going to the TV using a DVI-HDMI, and the Media Center PC using VGA. It's become a pain to switch between them even though I'm using a Harmony 880. When I switch to the cable box to watch HD and change channels the HTPC doesn't know the channel has been changed and it messes up my recordings and guide position. Also, I don't know if this is the TV's fault but sometimes when I switch from the VGA (HTPC) to HDMI (Cable Box) input to watch an HD channel it doesn't negotiate the video signal, so I have to change to an SD channel and then back so I can get a picture. I was also wondering if there would be enough between the two main speakers if I moved the right main speaker to the space between the TV and component stand? Right now they are in line with the rear speakers.

I haven't posted in two whole weeks. I had originally planned on posting after catching up with the thread but this thread is growing like crazy and I doubt I'll be able to catch up.

Judging by a few posts speckled here and there about PQ had me concerned whether or not people have their tv setup right. Have said that I've had the 50A10 for the past two weeks and I'm in love with this set.

This is my first HDTV. If you're in the same boat as I am don't expect to plug everything in and have everything working as it should. Some adjustments have to be made especially if you're coming from a non-hdtv and/or non-widescreen tv as in my case.

1)
As another poster mentioned, go into your DVD setup menu and make sure your DVD player is setup for Widescreen output. From the Sony input settings for the DVD make sure you have it set on FULL. If you're DVD is not setup for widescreen that requires you to set your DVD input on the Sony to Zoom. There is some loss of PQ if you do this. The difference in PQ was night and day for me.

2)
If you're using a cable box then you have to make adjustments to that too. Use the component out or the DVI/HDMI out of the cable box. I have a Motorola DCT-6200 (with HD service from Comcast) and it will not pass through HD signals through any other input (i.e. composite, s-video, coax). Go into the menu for the STB and set it up for Widescreen as well as 720P. The combination of these changes has been night and day as well. There were no instructions with this STB when it was delivered, some googling will pull the manuals you need. On the Sony end I have it setup so that Widescreen is displayed in Full while 4:3 material is displayed in Normal.

When you first get this TV don't hope for it to solve world hunger. Be a little realistic about your expectations and you'll be more comfortable with your decision :rolleyes:

Blacks are really black with black corrector at low, but you lose some shadow detail. I toggle the setting depending on if I'm watching cable tv or a movie (and what kind of movie). I personally have the advanced iris to OFF. But I love the fact that it has an adjustable iris. I've read a few posts from people that complained about how it didn't make their coffee table levitate. Just take a glance over at the GWIII and/or the Panny LCD RPTV thread and see how many people are performing the ND filter mod to get decent shadow detail. But with this TV you have it all within your fingertips.

Not all movies are the same, some are dark, light, fast moving, remastered, etc. Likewise I can adjust the setting of the A10 to suit the movie I'm watching. To me, the adjustable iris offers a great deal of flexibility.

This set does a fantastic job of de-interlacing/scaling my 480i DVD player. I considered purchasing a HD Upconverter before receiving the TV but after I tested it out I was very impressed and decided to hold out for a HD-DVD player early next year.

In regards to question about SD quality. Really you should ask yourself how good is your SD feed? Check out the other forum a couple of mouse clicks away. I have Comcast digital and most of the channels come out are very good with a few that are poor. The PQ is as good as my Sharp 27" CRT xflat TV. The channels that do come out poor are the channels that Comcast has not digitized as of yet. Currently, in my area Comcast is still working on digitizing channels like ABC, KCAL9, etc. But I knew these channels would come out terrible before I took possession of the A10 because they looked terrible on my CRT TV with the digital cable box as well. Some commercials look really bad while others look great. So ask your cable company if most of the channels in their feed are digitized or not. There's alot of primetime HD programming in my area so I don't watch watch other channels as much.


Oh btw, I bought this stand:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Centrios-60-TV-Stand-C22110-/sem/rpsm/oid/121372/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

And it looks really nice with the A10 some might find it too high if you plan on sitting upright at eye level with the tv. Its perfect for me since I like to lay back on the sofa when i'm watching tv.

Thanks

What is the difference between the Iris and the Advance Iris settings? If I turn off the Advance Iris, the main Iris settings still seems to have an effect. What does each setting actually control in the Iris system?

And what does Black Corrector actually do? I’ve turned this off as suggested & it did make a difference in the shadow areas. Why would you want to turn it on in the first place if it artificially changes the contrast? What does it do that cannot be accomplished with the contrast and/or brightness settings?

Did the previous GWIV models, or the new A20 ones, have the same black crush problem? Or is this a side effect from Sony’s attempt to increase contrast ratio using their new Iris system?

If I turn off all the Iris settings & the Black Corrector, is the set basically like the previous model as far as black levels & black crush go? IOW, would I be any worse off than if I bought the older model? Strange way at looking at the problem, but this lack of shadow detail bugs me. I guess I’d rather give up some absolute black level in exchange for some detail in shadow areas.

I realize there are limitations in all TVs, but can ISF calibration solve this black crush problem, or is this so inherent in LCD projection systems that even ISF cannot do much about it?

Mike

Go into the menu for the STB and set it up for Widescreen as well as 720P.

This set does a fantastic job of de-interlacing/scaling my 480i DVD player. .


Slam,

Congrats on your new TV!

Just something to consider and by your own admission the Sony has a good de-interlacer/scaler. If that is the case then let the TV scale the incoming signal to its native resolution. Since everything but Fox, ABC and ESPN is in 1080i it make sense to set your cable box to that output. Then when you find you are watching one of those 3 channels change it to 720 as it only takes about 10 seconds.

Ideally Comcast would have a pass through setting, but to date they don't.

:thumbsup: I'm also looking for cableCARD compatibility with the a10s.

Brighthouse cable got my A10 working with a SA cable card this last Friday, August 26. It took them two tries but they, finally, had success, much to their surprise. They came to my house, looked at the excellent A10 diagnostic screen, called Indianapolis Brighthouse cable, went back to the local cable head-end, did some "magic" there, called and were surprised when I told them the cable card was working. At first the cable tech tried to convince me the card wouldn't work. He said they had eight of them installed and none worked. I told him the A10 would work with the card. I read on several Internet forums that they would work and to keep "pressing" the cable techs. So, keep after them if they give you the "set isn't certified, the cards don't work" speech. It's in their best interest (financial) to lease you a SET-TOP-BOX, not a cable card.

The cable tech connected a STB to my A10 to see if they were getting ECMs and EMMs. They were not. The A10 is, now. I did see the PQ through the STB. It was bad. The cable card has much better PQ. The digital PQ, on some channels, looks almost as good as HD.

I also have Direct-TV HD channels and the A10 PQ is spectatular on the HD channels. Like most things, the PQ is as good as the signal coming in. Garbage in, garbage out.

Hope this helps.

I didn't see this anywhere, but the A10 manual and my A10 don't agree on the "speaker off" to get audio out. The manual says to get audio out of the jacks you must turn the sets internal speakers off. My set has audio output at the output jacks, speaker on or off. This is really nice because if I forget to turn the speakers back on after listening to the audio through my AV receiver, the internal speakers still work. This precludes the "the TV has no sound" complaint. :) I've never had a TV with "audio out" before and it's really nice. Instead of having audio cables from all my components, DVD, Tivo, satellite receiver, I only need one cable from the audio out to my my AV receiver. Takes away the mess of cables. If the TV plays it, I hear it. :) :)

SlamDunken, thanks for the quality comparison.
Some of our Mediacom cable channels are kinda flaky, I'll ask them if all are digitized tomorrow. I am a newbie and I could not find your reference to "the other forum a couple of mouse clicks away". ?
BTW: After 20 years we moved from your city 3 years ago. There we got excellent SD from DirecTv.

Because my cable box puts out so much heat and also my Sony A10 to a lesser degree I really think some 12v fans would be great for my entertainment center.

My question is where do you think I should install the fans. My cable box is located in a cubby hole just below the TV, very small space.

Would it be best to just have the fans both blow out to the front of the entertainment center? I will probably place one near the upper corner of the TV and the other one pretty much right behind the cable box.

If anybody has any placement suggestions I would welcome them. Thanks, Brad

What is the difference between the Iris and the Advance Iris settings? If I turn off the Advance Iris, the main Iris settings still seems to have an effect. What does each setting actually control in the Iris system?

And what does Black Corrector actually do? I’ve turned this off as suggested & it did make a difference in the shadow areas. Why would you want to turn it on in the first place if it artificially changes the contrast? What does it do that cannot be accomplished with the contrast and/or brightness settings?

Did the previous GWIV models, or the new A20 ones, have the same black crush problem? Or is this a side effect from Sony’s attempt to increase contrast ratio using their new Iris system?

If I turn off all the Iris settings & the Black Corrector, is the set basically like the previous model as far as black levels & black crush go? IOW, would I be any worse off than if I bought the older model? Strange way at looking at the problem, but this lack of shadow detail bugs me. I guess I’d rather give up some absolute black level in exchange for some detail in shadow areas.

I realize there are limitations in all TVs, but can ISF calibration solve this black crush problem, or is this so inherent in LCD projection systems that even ISF cannot do much about it?

Mike

The advanced iris opens and closes automatically to keep the contrast at a certain threshold. The higher you set it the more aggressive it becomes. Leave it on Low for best contrast performance. The general iris setting is just a preset contrast level. It never changes. A level higher than 2 is just too wide and gives blacks a washed out look. I find that setting it to 1 looks the best for low to mid-level lighting. Blacks are nice and deep and with good shadow detail. Just remember to also calibrate the brightness and contrast (Picture) settings for each input that you're using. These settings--especially brightness--are critical in order to get a good black level. Use a DVD like AVIA or DVE to calibrate. The test patterns that INHD and HDNet run are also very good for calibrating your HD channels.

The Black Corrector shouldn't be used unless you got a movie on DVD or VHS that was poorly transferred. Luckily my Sony 775 DVD player already has this feature with a click of a button. I wouldn't use it for HD or DVDs unless you really need to.

Once you get the A10 calibrated it delivers one SWEET looking picture. Getting a very good black level is somewhat difficult and is a limitation of LCD technology. A lot of tweaking is involved and eventually you'll say enough is enough. After a week of constant tweaking I got my A10 looking very good. Blacks that first looked washed out are deep and black with just a hint of light coming through. It's about as good as I can get it without going insane. :D

Fry's Electronics has the 50 inch on sale for $1,999 this week. Have Best Buy pricematch this and you can get the same price there.

:thumbsup: I'm also looking for cableCARD compatibility with the a10s.


I had Comcast install a cable card yesterday,Five minute install works like a charm
no problems.

OK...Question for you folks who've already bought one of the A10 42" TVs-

I'd like to put one on a built-in bookshelf with a bottom shelf that's 20" deep. Since the A10 is listed as 14 1/8" deep, I'm OK BUT:

There's upper bookshelves that are 8 1/2" wide, so I really only have 11 1/2" of the shelf to play with.

(The set will sit right in front of shelves that form a "box" that's 24" W and 20" H....this allows my 27" CRT WEGA to slide back JUST far enough so that it only overhangs the edge by 2" and won't tip off the shelf.)

Looking at Sony's pictures, it's confusing how the exact back of the 42" A10 will fit on my bookcase.

What do you think????

thnx

Dark Rain,

Thanks for the reply. I started watching the "Firefly" series on DVD with my old 27" Sony XBR. The 42A10 arrived and all looked really good on cable and OTA. So I hooked up the DVD player & finished watching "Firefly". A real big disappointment. Outside daytime scenes looked great, but there were a lot of inside scenes and they looked very dark. Ladies hair blended with the inside room background and it all looked black. Outside night scenes were worse. For all practical purposes no detail. I hooked up the old CRT again and was blow away by all the detail that my new high tech toy could not reproduce. I mean no comparison.

I realize there are limitations to everything. All around the A10 has a great picture. But it is 16 years newer than my CRT and I would not have thought it could have taken such a big step backward regarding shadow detail.

Again, it's not the black level per se, it's the black crush that bothers me. Of course I want a decent black level, but I'd also like to see picture content in dark scenes. And I'm will to compromise. But it appears, at least so far, the set won't work out a compromise. Turning off the Black Corrector did make a difference, but not enough as far as "Firefly" was concerned.

I'll go through the Avia calibration again with Black Corrector off & see how much difference it makes.

Thanks again,
Mike

I hope the calibration helps. I am interested in this set but I am more interested in shadow detail than darker blacks.

I just picked up a 50" A10 Friday night.

I have a sci atl 8300HDDVR box, a slim ps2, and a cyberhome dvd player.

I love the A10. First thing I did per this thread was enable the surround sound, that took the canned effect off the sound. Then I went through and tweaked the video to my liking.

like this:

custom
iris - 2
picture - 66
brightness - 48
color - 38
hue - G2
color temp - warm 1
sharpness - 45
noise reduction - low or off (still messing with it)
DRC Mode - high density or progressive (messing with this too)
DRC palette - custom
advanced video
black corrector - off
advanced iris - low
gamma - low
clear white - low
live color - off

I have my 4:3 default at Full

HDTV looks awesome, and I have my 8300 STB set up to pass through all I and P formats, 480, 720 and 1080.

SD looked shabby. I was not really pleased at all with how it looked. A few channels looked okay but overall it was too grainy.

Then I found DRC palette. Oh my, it looks incredible now. I set the DRC palette up like this:
Reality - 20
Clarity - 94

My SD looks sweet now. Text still looks a little wonky but that is because it's being stretched and what can you do? No worries on that one.

Bringing the reality level down seemed to reduce the grain and jacking up the clarity smoothed it all out.

I am seriously in love with this TV.

Looks great, sounds good, cosmetically it's stunning.

I'll post more as I get to know the TV better.

Where do you access the DRC palette? Its 'greyed-out' unless I'm on the cable channels and not the STB.

Even when I see it, I cant see the - Reality or Clarity settings

Thanks

Yeah the DRC palette isn't active if you are getting a 720 or 1080 feed. Or if a few things are turned off (see owners manual or I can check it out and post what it is later).

That is what makes it cool in my opinion. You can smooth out and reduce the grain of stretched 480 feeds and it has no effect on the 720 or 1080 which have their own increased clarity amounts.

I'm considering the 50" A10. Can anyone tell me how these sets are with dead pixels? I'm assuming they would stand out like a sore thumb. Does Sony have a policy for dead pixel repair/replacement?

Getting real close to the 50 inch A10. A few more newcomer questions
1. Calibration - I have seen some posts on it and am wondering how important/difficult it is to do. Also does anyone know a professional who does
it in austin,Tx?
2. Does a rear projection LCD need/have a screen protector?
3. Has anyone got the cable card to work with Time Warner?

I'm considering the 50" A10. Can anyone tell me how these sets are with dead pixels? I'm assuming they would stand out like a sore thumb. Does Sony have a policy for dead pixel repair/replacement?

I have one stuck pixel on my 42A10 that is blue in color, but I can only see it if I'm about a foot away from the screen. At a normal viewing distance it can't be seen. Sony states that stuck/dead pixels are normal with LCD technology and it's not a defect. I would guess if you had a lot of them in the same area of the screen they would replace the TV. The A10s have a full 1-year warranty, including parts and labor. Lamp replacement is also covered should it burn out before then.

Again, it's not the black level per se, it's the black crush that bothers me. Of course I want a decent black level, but I'd also like to see picture content in dark scenes. And I'm will to compromise. But it appears, at least so far, the set won't work out a compromise. Turning off the Black Corrector did make a difference, but not enough as far as "Firefly" was concerned.

Check your DVD player to see if there is a black level control and turn it OFF. It should be located somewhere in the config menu for the component output.

Setting the advanced iris to Medium or High does work very well with movies that are dark all the way through. You get very good shadow detail and very little black crush. You just have to decide if you can put up with the sometimes noticeable shift in contrast when the iris opens and closes. To me it's annoying so that's why I leave it on Low. It's just another step that Sony needs to improve.

Blkacklover inspired me to mess around with how I get my cable into my 50A10.

First off, I've had the TV for two weeks without plugging the cable directly into my set (ie not using the set top box). Plugged it directly into the TV and Wow - what a difference! Picture went from bad and barely-watchable, to very good. I'm sure the DRC tweak helped. Sadly, I hardly ever watch live TV, so this isn't a configuration I'll use very often.

Secondly, and maybe Blkacklover could help me with this: I can't figure out how to tweak the DRC palette while using the set top box. I, too, have a Sci Atl 8300 HD DVR, and have set it to "Pass Through" (and also tried the other settings "Upconvert" and "Fixed"). No matter what I do, the box sends out 1080i to my TV, thus disabling my DRC palette. Has my cable company (Charter, west of L.A.) disabled the Pass Through feature somehow, or am I doing something wrong? Going component out of the 8300 into the A10, by the way.

Thanks in advance for any advice.



Yeah the DRC palette isn't active if you are getting a 720 or 1080 feed. Or if a few things are turned off (see owners manual or I can check it out and post what it is later).

That is what makes it cool in my opinion. You can smooth out and reduce the grain of stretched 480 feeds and it has no effect on the 720 or 1080 which have their own increased clarity amounts.

I'm considering the 50" A10. Can anyone tell me how these sets are with dead pixels? I'm assuming they would stand out like a sore thumb. Does Sony have a policy for dead pixel repair/replacement?

Thats exactly why I got mine from a Brick & Mortar store. With a 30 day satisfaction guarantee I don't care what Sony say's. I'll tell the store I'm not satisfied, either give me my money back or swap :D

That makes me wonder if Sony sends their did pixels from the factory floor to the on line stores? :confused: Most buy on line stores have a no refund for this or anything except maybe shipping damage? :mad:

Slam,

Congrats on your new TV!

Just something to consider and by your own admission the Sony has a good de-interlacer/scaler. If that is the case then let the TV scale the incoming signal to its native resolution. Since everything but Fox, ABC and ESPN is in 1080i it make sense to set your cable box to that output. Then when you find you are watching one of those 3 channels change it to 720 as it only takes about 10 seconds.

Ideally Comcast would have a pass through setting, but to date they don't.


That's a great idea. I'll have to try that out along with the HDMI/DVI cables I just got.

One thing I noticed is that Motorola 6200 is somewhat buggy and seems to experience some buffering problems when watching HD channels. For instance, if I'm watching OnDemand and then pause it to watch an HD channel, it seems to lock up for a few seconds. I can't even turn the STB off. After a few seconds it'll respond to the cable remote.

SlamDunken, thanks for the quality comparison.
Some of our Mediacom cable channels are kinda flaky, I'll ask them if all are digitized tomorrow. I am a newbie and I could not find your reference to "the other forum a couple of mouse clicks away". ?
BTW: After 20 years we moved from your city 3 years ago. There we got excellent SD from DirecTv.


Check this forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=45

Contributors to that forum are very knowledgable about OTA as well as direct feed cable. The threads are by "city/are - service provider".

Speaking of which I bought an OTA antennae and still haven't gotten around to trying it. Maybe this holiday weekend after I'm done with my project at work I'll have some time to try the OTA antenna as well as trying out the VGA input on the Sony.

I'm buying the 42" A10 tommorrow and it's my first widescreen HDTV, so you can understand my excitement. Anyway, my JVC progressive scan DVD player has 3 options on the back. 480i, 480p, and Remote. Which one of these do I select? Also, what cables and such am I gonna need?

I'm buying the 42" A10 tommorrow and it's my first widescreen HDTV, so you can understand my excitement. Anyway, my JVC progressive scan DVD player has 3 options on the back. 480i, 480p, and Remote. Which one of these do I select? Also, what cables and such am I gonna need?
Try both 480i and 480p to see which looks better. The DVD player may do a better job at deinterlacing than the TV, so select 480p if it looks better. CineMotion should be set to Auto on the TV for 3:2 pulldown, which will give your DVDs a very film-like appearance.

You'll need a set of component cables for the DVD player. These are identified by 3 cables: red, green, and blue. For audio just use standard RCA cables to the TV or use digital coax/optical for 5.1 audio to a HT receiver.

I'm considering the 50" A10. Can anyone tell me how these sets are with dead pixels? I'm assuming they would stand out like a sore thumb.

Checking from 8' away using DVE solid color screens -- no dead or stuck pixels. None.

RCLAMS

Because my cable box puts out so much heat and also my Sony A10 to a lesser degree I really think some 12v fans would be great for my entertainment center.

My question is where do you think I should install the fans. My cable box is located in a cubby hole just below the TV, very small space.

Would it be best to just have the fans both blow out to the front of the entertainment center? I will probably place one near the upper corner of the TV and the other one pretty much right behind the cable box.

If anybody has any placement suggestions I would welcome them. Thanks, Brad

Check out my append, with pictures, on page 64 of this thread. I address cooling.
Fans should always being configured so that they suck in cooler air from somewhere.

I'm having a resolution switching problem on my E50A10 mated with the D* STB H10. When I set the H10 to resolutions All / Native On the resolution on the TV doesn't change using side input "2".

If I set the H10 to 720P & 1080I / Native Off then the TV switches fine.

Any ideas???

Thanks.........

It's the Z-line 23541S from Circuit City.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-TV-Stand-23541S-/sem/rpsm/oid/69535/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
Wondring if anyone has put the 50 inch on it yet. I know it says 36 but it is 43 inches wide.

I bought the Z-Line # SKYLAR44S and the top measures 44". Your base on the 50" will be about 44" wide, any will fit perfectly. Try the CC web site before buying as the stand was reduced as a web special at $ 42.00 below the B&M CC store price. Good thing about the CC web site is that no shipping charges and you pick it up at the store for the web price (what a deal!). When I picked up my stand, the stand had a 50" Panny on it and the salesman said it was one the strongest stands he had (top holds 240 lbs. and is 3/8 " thick tempered glass). If you buy it, on assembly be careful to put the two bottom tempered glass shelves with the smoked coating on the bottom side. With the glass side on the top, you wouldn't scratch the surface.They don't point out that important point on assembly. You will be quite happy with that stand , it looks GREAT!

Secondly, and maybe Blkacklover could help me with this: I can't figure out how to tweak the DRC palette while using the set top box. I, too, have a Sci Atl 8300 HD DVR, and have set it to "Pass Through" (and also tried the other settings "Upconvert" and "Fixed"). No matter what I do, the box sends out 1080i to my TV, thus disabling my DRC palette. Has my cable company (Charter, west of L.A.) disabled the Pass Through feature somehow, or am I doing something wrong? Going component out of the 8300 into the A10, by the way.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Sounds like your STB is only set up for one display mode (1080i).

Try this.

Turn off your STB and hold down the top two circular buttons on the left side (sorry I can't be more specific I don't have the box in front of me right now I think it's the guide and info buttons) until the box powers itself up. Anyway, that will get you into the 8300's display set up mode. You pick Hi Def and then you can select your viewable screensizes. The only modes I have seen mine display (it says what mode you are in on the box) are 480i 720p and 1080i. You can just select those or all of them. I selected all of them but I think it makes no difference just as long as you have those that are being displayed selected. Did that make sense? Oh yeah, just as info, my cableco is Comcast.

The DRC palette only shows up when viewing in 480i mode.

A10 love affair update.

Day 4. Last night I watched HBO's new series ROME and then Entourage. Both shows looked fantastic. Digital HBO is coming out 480i.

It's just a shame that some 480i broadcasts look stunning and then other broadcasts look abysmal. I could make a list of the SD channels that look good and the ones that look bad and it would just be random more or less. For example, on my Comcast cable, Comedy Central on channel 40 looks very good while USA on 33 looks bleh. I don't really understand what is going on there. Different compression values? Is comcast doing that or the individual broadcasters? I see what the deal is on the digital channels also coming through 480i. Take a channel like Fox Soccer Channel. The stuff they have control over looks good, the feeds from europe and south america look pretty shabby at times. Wonder how that will ever be "cured"?

Regardless, it's obvious that this TV can really handle anything sent to it. 1080i and 720p look eye poppingly wonderful and 480i looks good enough.

Digital HBO is coming out 480i

From your post, it sounds like you have an HD Set, an HD STB, but watch HBO in SD. Does your Comcast not provide HBO-HD?

Just purchased the 50" model yesterday at BB. PQ looks great in my opinion. SD from Directv is better than what I saw in the stores.

Since this is my first HD tv, I have a couple of questions I hope someone can help me with. Watching OTA HD programming in DFW area, only channel 8 (ABC) shows in 16:9 format. CBS, NBC, etc say 16:9, 1080i format in the guide, but show black bars on the sides of the program. Only the little league world series shows full 16:9.

Am I missing a setting here? Or are the programs HD but in 4:3 format?

Thanks in advance.

Not all OTA is HD. Non HD will have black bars on the sides but none top and bottom and still be 1080I or 720P. Only HD OTA is full screen.

Still learning so I may be wrong here.

Thanks for the reply M1M. The guide says it is 16:9 even though it's not. Maybe that isn't referring to the program that's playing at that time.

From your post, it sounds like you have an HD Set, an HD STB, but watch HBO in SD. Does your Comcast not provide HBO-HD?


Yeah, they do provide it.

I am going to get that added to my bill soon. Currently I am getting TNT, ESPN, ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox and two INHD channels for free.

My pop pays for the HD service and gets ABC, NBC, CBS, HBO, FOX, Max, SHO and Starz.

No clue why he doesn't get the HD channels I get for free. Comcast is wacky.

Thanks for the reply M1M. The guide says it is 16:9 even though it's not. Maybe that isn't referring to the program that's playing at that time.

Check the broadcasters Web sites to find what shows are in HD. This page may help some:

http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5119938-1.html?tag=picks

I noticed in a recent post somebody mentioned one should have Noise Reduction set to off .... why? Seems like it would be a good thing to me... pardon the noob question but if somebody wouldn't mind explaining the pros & cons I'd appreciate it! :)

I noticed in a recent post somebody mentioned one should have Noise Reduction set to off .... why? Seems like it would be a good thing to me... pardon the noob question but if somebody wouldn't mind explaining the pros & cons I'd appreciate it! :)

It's not really needed for HD and DVDs. Turning it to OFF allows you to fine tune the DRC Palate for SD channels.

So, will Sony change the name of our TVs to
Grand Bravia or wait until next year's models come out?

I'm considering the 50" A10. Can anyone tell me how these sets are with dead pixels? I'm assuming they would stand out like a sore thumb. Does Sony have a policy for dead pixel repair/replacement?

Thats exactly why I got mine from a Brick & Mortar store. With a 30 day satisfaction guarantee I don't care what Sony say's. I'll tell the store I'm not satisfied, either give me my money back or swap :D

That makes me wonder if Sony sends their did pixels from the factory floor to the on line stores? :confused: Most buy on line stores have a no refund for this or anything except maybe shipping damage? :mad:

Just got my TV back from the repair shop--I had about 15 dead pixels in a cluster. Yes, it stood out like sore thumb :eek:

Sony contracted the repair to a local repair shop--home pickup and delivery. Seems good to me so far :cool:

I bought my TV online and I don't regret that--buy from a B&M only if you're not sure about the TV at all. Even if I had bought from a B&M--it's way easier to get it fixed than to haul the TV back for a return. Plus I probably saved $500.

I've had my TV a few days now and I'm amazed at how good games (mainly Halo 2) look and feel. The difference between my RPCRT and the 50" A10 is prettty drastic in brightness and detail. Needless to say, I have been very pleased.

For DVDs I'm pleased but not blown away. It is a mixed back due to the black level issues. I'm surprised to see it as a problem because I didn't notice much while testing the TV at Tweeter. It isn't huge by any means but I didn't expect it at all. The brighter scenes look awesome but the very dark scenes have me guessing if it is displaying it properly. I'm going to throw in a few movies I've seen multiple times so I can have a better idea if it is the movies I've watched or the TV.

The HD content has been the big surprise for me and not in a good way. Most of the channels look like a jumbled mess UNLESS it is a prime time show that is in TRUE widescreen and something they obviously cared about. I guess I'm just surprised at how much smoother my Elite CRT HDTV was when comparing it to the A10 and my Elite was 8" larger. That isn't to say that the CRT was all that much better. Maybe it simply displayed the muddy picture in a better different way that appeared a little more pleasing.

All of this said, I think I need to try turning off the Black Correction. Is this accessible from the main Video menu?

blkacklover-

Thanks, that did it. Now my "pass through" function really does pass through! My HD stations come in as 1080i, and everything else as 480i. And now I can use my DRC Pallet on the crappy channels!

Too bad Charter hides this function. If I understand correctly, the STB was previously upconverting 480i to 1080i, just so my TV could convert it down to 720 for display. I assume one of the reasons everything looks better now is because I've sidestepped an extraneous conversion.


Turn off your STB and hold down the top two circular buttons on the left side (sorry I can't be more specific I don't have the box in front of me right now I think it's the guide and info buttons) until the box powers itself up. Anyway, that will get you into the 8300's display set up mode. You pick Hi Def and then you can select your viewable screensizes. The only modes I have seen mine display (it says what mode you are in on the box) are 480i 720p and 1080i. You can just select those or all of them. I selected all of them but I think it makes no difference just as long as you have those that are being displayed selected. Did that make sense? Oh yeah, just as info, my cableco is Comcast.

Just got my TV back from the repair shop--I had about 15 dead pixels in a cluster. Yes, it stood out like sore thumb :eek:

Sony contracted the repair to a local repair shop--home pickup and delivery. Seems good to me so far :cool:

I bought my TV online and I don't regret that--buy from a B&M only if you're not sure about the TV at all. Even if I had bought from a B&M--it's way easier to get it fixed than to haul the TV back for a return. Plus I probably saved $500.

I live in Alabama and we have plenty of pickups so bringing this Light wt. TV back is no problem. :D As far as saving money you will be surprise how low you can talk these sets down plus the price Matching. ;)

I live in Alabama and we have plenty of pickups so bringing this Light wt. TV back is no problem. :D As far as saving money you will be surprise how low you can talk these sets down plus the price Matching. ;)

Added note:
I beat any on- line price with the purchase of my 50A10 from A B&M ;)

blkacklover-

Thanks, that did it. Now my "pass through" function really does pass through! My HD stations come in as 1080i, and everything else as 480i. And now I can use my DRC Pallet on the crappy channels!

Too bad Charter hides this function. If I understand correctly, the STB was previously upconverting 480i to 1080i, just so my TV could convert it down to 720 for display. I assume one of the reasons everything looks better now is because I've sidestepped an extraneous conversion.


Yep that is it.

Now you can use the DRC palette to smooth out the grain on the 480i stuff.

Might want to enable 720p as ESPN and one other in the HD area broadcast 720p.

While waiting for my DVE disc to come in the mail I am having a hard time with skin tones under lighting... they turn yellowish, all detail is lost, and look terribly fake.

Edit.... having the advanced Iris on Medium or High was the cause.

While waiting for my DVE disc to come in the mail I am having a hard time with skin tones under lighting... they turn yellowish, all detail is lost, and look terribly fake.

Edit.... having the advanced Iris on Medium or High was the cause.

I am getting more and more confused about all the black level, and shadow detail issues on these TV's. I thought the Iris etc was suppposed to greatly improve these issues vs. the GWIII and IV. But it sounds like the cure is worse than the disease, and everyone is turning the new features to low or off. Given that, are we just back to the black level, and shadow detail of the older models, or is there really a noticeable improvement. My GWIII is awesome on brighter scenes, and makes me unhappy on dark ones. It sounds like the A-10 is about the same. Can anyone honestly say that the A-10 is much of an improvement overall, vs the last 2 generations?

I've had my TV a few days now and I'm amazed at how good games (mainly Halo 2) look and feel. The difference between my RPCRT and the 50" A10 is prettty drastic in brightness and detail. Needless to say, I have been very pleased.

For DVDs I'm pleased but not blown away. It is a mixed back due to the black level issues. I'm surprised to see it as a problem because I didn't notice much while testing the TV at Tweeter. It isn't huge by any means but I didn't expect it at all. The brighter scenes look awesome but the very dark scenes have me guessing if it is displaying it properly. I'm going to throw in a few movies I've seen multiple times so I can have a better idea if it is the movies I've watched or the TV.

The HD content has been the big surprise for me and not in a good way. Most of the channels look like a jumbled mess UNLESS it is a prime time show that is in TRUE widescreen and something they obviously cared about. I guess I'm just surprised at how much smoother my Elite CRT HDTV was when comparing it to the A10 and my Elite was 8" larger. That isn't to say that the CRT was all that much better. Maybe it simply displayed the muddy picture in a better different way that appeared a little more pleasing.

All of this said, I think I need to try turning off the Black Correction. Is this accessible from the main Video menu?

Please don't take this the wrong way but if you're asking about where the Black Corrector menu is then you probably don't have your all of your other settings correct. For instance, have you changed the menu settings IN the cable box? If your DVD player doesn't have 3:2 pulldown do you have Cinemotion on your Sony TV? Adjusting these settings (and others) will give you a better picture.

google your cable box model number for an online manual so you can adjust the settings.

I have a post in the middle of the page that may give you some other ideas for things to setup.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=562185&page=73&pp=30


I almost forgot. BTW, the Black Corrector is in the "Video Menu" under "Advanced". You will notice significant shadow detail if you turn this off. However, your blacks won't be as dark. To offset this you can turn the Iris setting to 1 or Min. An Iris setting of 1 or 2 seems to give the most "pop" depending on the content your watching.

The artifact is basically brighter-than-normal white lines right at the top and bottom of the picture itself... right before the black areas start. They are not quite pure white... in fact, they almost seem like a few horizontal lines of the picture condensed into one.
I've also noticed this on my E50 with some but not all dvd's. It is very noticeable while watching The Incredibles, for example, but I don't see it when watching any of the star wars movies. I'm using a very cheap Phillips progressive scan dvd player so maybe that's the culprit. I'm going to watch some movies using my xbox to see if it does the same thing.
It might be edge enhancement, which gets applied to some DVDs to smooth out edges around people, objects, etc. This effect produces a 'halo' around everything, including the line between the black bars and where the frame of the film is since it is an 'edge'. The black bars are part of the image and are not produced by the DVD player. The player will only produce black bars when doing an anamorphic downconversion for 4:3 TVs.
We have the 50" Panny RPLCD on display at work and i noticed the same thing--thought maybe it was our bad setup/cheap DVD player. Hopefully there are A10 owners out there who can confirm they DON'T have it--then you know it' gotta be something other than the TV.

Reading these replies made me remember a setting that I changed on the DVD player the same day I got the set. (Thanks guys.) I've got a Panasonic RP-72, which has a "black level" or "black corrector" setting. The only two options are "lighter" and "darker". I think the latter is default, which is where I've left it all along. I think I may have changed it to "lighter" when I switched the player to 16:9 mode. I'll have to change it back tonight and see if that makes any difference with my problem.

If anyone discovers anything else, with other DVD players or whatnot, please let me know.

I have one stuck pixel on my 42A10 that is blue in color, but I can only see it if I'm about a foot away from the screen. At a normal viewing distance it can't be seen. Sony states that stuck/dead pixels are normal with LCD technology and it's not a defect. I would guess if you had a lot of them in the same area of the screen they would replace the TV. The A10s have a full 1-year warranty, including parts and labor. Lamp replacement is also covered should it burn out before then.

I've got ONE stuck pixel as well... and it's also blue. On a completely black screen, because I know where it is, I can see it from 6+ feet away... and of course it annoys the heck out of me. Since I'm within my 30 days I'm tempted to make Circuit City replace it for me. Still haven't decided.

I am getting more and more confused about all the black level, and shadow detail issues on these TV's. I thought the Iris etc was suppposed to greatly improve these issues vs. the GWIII and IV. But it sounds like the cure is worse than the disease, and everyone is turning the new features to low or off. Given that, are we just back to the black level, and shadow detail of the older models, or is there really a noticeable improvement. My GWIII is awesome on brighter scenes, and makes me unhappy on dark ones. It sounds like the A-10 is about the same. Can anyone honestly say that the A-10 is much of an improvement overall, vs the last 2 generations?

I'm happy with the black Iris on low :D and even on low it beats the others. Another way you can tell, is when it's on low and gives good shadow detail you can look at the Border on normal programing and it's good bit blacker then any RP TV's I've seen.
The borders are not the typical blue grey found on others :cool:

I currently have the Sony KP-46WT510 CRT rear projection. I've liked the PQ since day one (purchased the calibration DVD with the TV, and adjusted the red-push from following posts on this board). However, the sheer size of the tv and stand that go along with it is really starting to weigh on my wife and I. She can't lift her half of the tv, and it's not on casters, so it's basically impossible to move without inviting a friend over or me getting hernia.

I recently started looking for a new tv, and actually purchased the new Samsung HL-R4667W. I brought it home and had both TV hooked up at the same time. HD PQ on the Samsung was great, but 95% of my viewing time is on SD channels. When I was viewing the SD channels, I realized that the Samsung only had the ability to switch between 16:9, 4:3, Panorama, or Zoom. When I switched to Panorama, I realized that the screen "stretch" was not nearly as progressive as my Sony CRT. The Samsung, when a person on the screen would pass to the left or right edges of the screen would stretch out and look like you were looking at them through a glass of water. I returned the tv two days later, realizing that I wouldn't be happy with it.

So I've started to look at the new 50" A10 LCD from Sony. I can use my dvd disk and this board to tweak the color, so I'm not too worried about that. There are three things holding me back from buying this set:

1. Will the "stretch" used to stretch the 4:3 broadcast picture from standard cable be the same as my CRT? Both TV's have the "Wide Zoom" which is what I use on my TV now, but are they the same?

2. Is the "black crush" going to be noticeable, or can it be fixed completely with the Iris settings?

3. I view the tv from about 13 feet. At this distance, will I notice the screen door effect?

Thanks all. I've read as much as I could in this thread, but I certainly might have missed something.

Yep that is it.

Now you can use the DRC palette to smooth out the grain on the 480i stuff.

Might want to enable 720p as ESPN and one other in the HD area broadcast 720p.

Where in the 8300 HD 'Advanced Setup' do you see a pass through function. So far I have only come across the six screen formats and have chosen 1080i and 480i Widescreen. If I choose other formats I don't get widescreen on the HD channels. (The only working HD channel I have at the moment is DiscHD). Using the 'Easy Setup' did not give me 16:9. The Time Warner tech was mostly useless.

The resolution info above the clock always shows 720.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

I'm happy with the black Iris on low :D and even on low it beats the others. Another way you can tell, is when it's on low and gives good shadow detail you can look at the Border on normal programing and it's good bit blacker then any RP TV's I've seen.
The borders are not the typical blue grey found on others :cool:


Thanks for the reply...that helps. MY GWIII has a bluish/greenish grey cast to the borders that should be black..maybe there has been some real progress afterall.

Thought I'd re-post since everyone was watching football on their new HDTVs yesterday...

OK...Question for you folks who've already bought one of the A10 42" TVs-

I'd like to put one on a built-in bookshelf with a bottom shelf that's 20" deep. Since the A10 is listed as 14 1/8" deep, I'm OK BUT:

There's upper bookshelves that are 8 1/2" wide, so I really only have 11 1/2" of the shelf to play with.

(The set will sit right in front of shelves that form a "box" that's 24" W and 20" H....this allows my 27" CRT WEGA to slide back JUST far enough so that it only overhangs the edge by 2" and won't tip off the shelf.)

Looking at Sony's pictures, it's confusing how the exact back of the 42" A10 will fit on my bookcase.

What do you think????

thnx

Please don't take this the wrong way but if you're asking about where the Black Corrector menu is then you probably don't have your all of your other settings correct. For instance, have you changed the menu settings IN the cable box? If your DVD player doesn't have 3:2 pulldown do you have Cinemotion on your Sony TV? Adjusting these settings (and others) will give you a better picture.

google your cable box model number for an online manual so you can adjust the settings.

I have a post in the middle of the page that may give you some other ideas for things to setup.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=562185&page=73&pp=30


I almost forgot. BTW, the Black Corrector is in the "Video Menu" under "Advanced". You will notice significant shadow detail if you turn this off. However, your blacks won't be as dark. To offset this you can turn the Iris setting to 1 or Min. An Iris setting of 1 or 2 seems to give the most "pop" depending on the content your watching.

I appreciate your reply. I've had a widescreen HDTV for about 5 years and I've had my DVD player set up properly since that point. The DVDs look pretty good. Now, I can't say anything about a cable box because I don't have a cable box. I'm running OTA Antenna directly into the Antenna IN. I had one of the very first generation Direct TV HD Receivers and it was easier to just bypass it since I am not paying for Direct TV or even cable at this point in time. I rent so many DVDs that it has been of little interest to me to pay for Direct TV or Cable for watching movies that I've already watched 5 times. Anyway, what I do care to watch the most is sports in HD. I'll get a good chance to check it out tonight in Monday Night Football. I'm not sure how the whole ESPN contract effects things but I do see that ABC shows to have a game tonight.
So, I don't have a cable box to adjust. I have OTA and am looking at what ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. puts out. On my 58" Elite I watched Lost and a couple of other shows along with sports and they looked unbelievable. I even had friends regularly calling me up to come over and watch golf, football or something else in HD. If I can get a great picture for these things then I'll be a happy man. If not then I'll be trying out something else. I will turn the Black Corrector off when I get home and check out the game tonight. I'll also turn my Iris setting from 3 to 2 or 1. (it might be on 2 already but I think it is on 3)
Oh, I do have another question. As I go down through the menu I typically turn everything off that alters the picture, for example DRC. With this TV I'm confused what should be turned on or off. Also, if I turn the iris down or off wouldn't I be better off to take the set back and get the 55" A20 I was originally comparing the A10 to? I decided on the A10 due to the iris and added connections although I wanted a tad larger size TV. In my testing the A10 looked better for blacks but I wasn't looking at HD feed that much. Decisions decisions... I have been surprised to have to be rethinking this purchase and hope I feel better tonight after watching NFL in HD.
The question about settings could be a lot easier to find if we had a settings page for A10s. I think this many people posting shows there is enough reason for one. Just a thought.

I am getting more and more confused about all the black level, and shadow detail issues on these TV's. I thought the Iris etc was suppposed to greatly improve these issues vs. the GWIII and IV. But it sounds like the cure is worse than the disease, and everyone is turning the new features to low or off. Given that, are we just back to the black level, and shadow detail of the older models, or is there really a noticeable improvement. My GWIII is awesome on brighter scenes, and makes me unhappy on dark ones. It sounds like the A-10 is about the same. Can anyone honestly say that the A-10 is much of an improvement overall, vs the last 2 generations?


I've said before in my post about calibrating my friend's A10 setup... iris on the low setting produced the blackest blacks and -nothing- was crushing... blacks or whites.

I also think this set needs to have the color turned -way- down. Turn it down to where you think it should be and then turn it down some more. I saw his TV again on Saturday and everything (including skin tones) looked perfect.

His player is a Denon 1920, which is an HDMI player and it is connected via HDMI. There are enough issues with digital interconnects that a large number of TVs and players just don't look good together. It is important to get a good match.

I own a heavily tweaked XBR Grand Wega and I feel the A10 represents a significant improvement.

What kind of follow-up call did you get from 6th Ave? Did they give you the rock-hard sell on stands, bulbs, and extended warranties? If so, what did you buy and at what price?

sorry for not replying sooner as I was out of town, no .. they did not apply any pressure to buy more stuff, they just asked once whether i want an extended warranty, i said i don't need it and they shipped the TV the next day.

I bought it using my amex card, and Amex doubles the manuf. warranty. So in short, I have a 2 years warranty .

I've got ONE stuck pixel as well... and it's also blue. On a completely black screen, because I know where it is, I can see it from 6+ feet away... and of course it annoys the heck out of me. Since I'm within my 30 days I'm tempted to make Circuit City replace it for me. Still haven't decided.

6 feet is too close of a viewing distance if you ask me. SDE is more prominent making for a less than satisfying vieweing experience. I think 8 feet is the sweet spot for the 42A10.

I've made the changes mentioned and the picture does look much better. Adjusting the DRC for SD channels made a big difference. Of course I won't really watch much that isn't HD on regular TV so it isn't of great significance there.

I noticed something I thought looked odd yesterday and just now checked it. On ANY 4:3 content the black bars on the sides are not running parallel with the TV. At the bottom there is 4 1/2 inches of black bar (on each side) and at the top there is 4 7/8ths inches. Add the two together and you have over 1/2 inch less on bottom) Is this something they will send someone out to fix or will they replace it with another one? Then again, is it worth complaining about?

As far as the sweet spot for 42" A10s I have to agree with Dark Rain. After checking out my 50" I think the sweet spot is about 11'. If I get much closer then I start feeling disappointed. This has been improved due to the setting changes but I still think these RPLCDs need room between you and them for them to look their best. Just my 2 cents.

so you think you need to sit further away from an lcd than a rpcrt? I am 9.5 ft away and I have a 42 inch rpcrt, I am upgrading to a 50 or 52

Thought I'd re-post since everyone was watching football on their new HDTVs yesterday...

OK...Question for you folks who've already bought one of the A10 42" TVs-

I'd like to put one on a built-in bookshelf with a bottom shelf that's 20" deep. Since the A10 is listed as 14 1/8" deep, I'm OK BUT:

There's upper bookshelves that are 8 1/2" wide, so I really only have 11 1/2" of the shelf to play with.

(The set will sit right in front of shelves that form a "box" that's 24" W and 20" H....this allows my 27" CRT WEGA to slide back JUST far enough so that it only overhangs the edge by 2" and won't tip off the shelf.)

Looking at Sony's pictures, it's confusing how the exact back of the 42" A10 will fit on my bookcase.

What do you think????

thnx


I just measured 20" up from my stand and the sloped back was approx 3.25" narrower, so that should put the depth from the front at a hair under 11". However the rear is approx 28" wide...

Mondo,

Some may disagree with me but it is my opinion that it is true after watching my Elite 610 Pro (58") for several years and now watching something that is 8" smaller yet seeing things I don't want to see if I move a couple of feet forward. From the couch it is 11ft which is pretty nice to me. The pixels on the LCDs, maybe specifically on the A10 since they are actually larger than those on the A20 if I'm correct, seem to show on certain types of images. Again, this is just my opinion. One thing I have done is turn the sharpness way down on the A10 and it has helped a lot for all types of viewing in my opinion. It just makes the image look smoother. It looks too grainy with the sharpness anywhere close to the default setting.
Strangely enough, the Sony A10 easily looked the best for Xbox play. I guess because you have fine textures on games but not such fast shifting images and light changes. I know that Halo 2 looks phenomenal from 7 feet away or 11 feet away. Well, I'm sure others can help more. I've said my 2 cents. Maybe I'll learn a bit more and be more helpful.

Kainan, why did you go from the Elite to the sony? The Elite is a great set, why would you give up the bigger tv? I have a Toshiba 42h81 and love the picture, I just wanted to go bigger. Before you chose the a10, did you consider any DLP sets?

6 feet is too close of a viewing distance if you ask me. SDE is more prominent making for a less than satisfying vieweing experience. I think 8 feet is the sweet spot for the 42A10.

I agree... and I am about 8 feet away as a general rule. I just mean that if I get much closer than that I can see the pixel. Nit-picking, I'm sure....

Not even sure if this is the correct forum (and I don't want to start a flame war) but here goes.
1. Anyone get the "Made in USA" model for the 50 inch. We looked at the 3 or 4 boxes in the back of the store and all were from the newer Mexico plant. The 42 inch model were from USA. They are looking in the warehouse for one.
2. Component cables - Not that there is anything wrong with the better know names at the store (30 bucks for 6 feet) but WalMart of all places has some for 20 bucks. And yes I know thta it's 10 bucks out of a couple grand but I am curious more than anything. I am going to get the 30 buck versions.
3. Cable card with Time Warner - anyone got this to work? I am going with the STB to start out with but would like to switch.

Kainan, why did you go from the Elite to the sony? The Elite is a great set, why would you give up the bigger tv? I have a Toshiba 42h81 and love the picture, I just wanted to go bigger. Before you chose the a10, did you consider any DLP sets?

One word... GAMER. Since Xbox Live came out I've spent large amounts of time playing the same game. This is great because it saves me tons of money on games but bad because it has already cost me $400+ the first time for CRT replacement and Halo 2 is showing minor signs on an all blue screen. I had to sell the TV before the burn in became an actual problem. So, I set out to find the best Gamer HDTV that also looks great for movies. If you look at my posts by clicking on my username you can follow the trail where I left detailed reviews as I went along but the jist of it is that the new Sammys lagged HORRIBLY during Halo 2 testing and plenty of people are reporting latency issues with sound as well. That led me to the Sony 60" A20. I was about prepared to buy it when my friend pointed out the advantages that the A10 had (Iris, inputs, etc). In the end after testing I brought home the 50" A10.

One good thing. I just watched about of NFL and it looks awesome so far. Gotta get back to the game. :)

Kainan, how would you compare the hd picture watching monday night football between your new a10 and your elite?

I've said before in my post about calibrating my friend's A10 setup... iris on the low setting produced the blackest blacks and -nothing- was crushing... blacks or whites.

I also think this set needs to have the color turned -way- down. Turn it down to where you think it should be and then turn it down some more. I saw his TV again on Saturday and everything (including skin tones) looked perfect.

His player is a Denon 1920, which is an HDMI player and it is connected via HDMI. There are enough issues with digital interconnects that a large number of TVs and players just don't look good together. It is important to get a good match.

I own a heavily tweaked XBR Grand Wega and I feel the A10 represents a significant improvement.


Quick question, did you mess with any of the advanced features? I've got the Iris on Low, but I turned off the Black Corrector, Live Color and clear white. I think my 50A10 looks great, but I continue to mess with the settings...this forum can be both good and bad...I'm now obsessing over tiny adjustments.

I tweaked using DVE for my Tosh DVD player, then adjusted HD and SD from there using my eyes.

Thanks.

...
custom
iris - 2
picture - 66
brightness - 48
color - 38
hue - G2
color temp - warm 1
sharpness - 45
noise reduction - low or off (still messing with it)
DRC Mode - high density or progressive (messing with this too)
DRC palette - custom
advanced video
black corrector - off
advanced iris - low
gamma - low
clear white - low
live color - off

....I set the DRC palette up like this:
Reality - 20
Clarity - 94
...

I have set my A10 to approximately these settings and concur that DVDs and SD from cable look a lot better than they did. Thanks!

I will try to go 24 hours without changing a setting :)

To everyone out there tweaking and adjusting your new A10's.....one thing I learned from experience when I had my current 5-year old direct-view CRT calibrated by an ISF tech....settle on some adjustments and tweaks that you find preferable and then leave the contols alone for at least a week so you can "adapt" to the new settings. Your brain needs time to adjust to these new settings, especially settings that have been done by calibration equipment or instruments like AVIA or DVE. Take it from experience, you'll drive yourself nuts and accomplish little by changing settings on a daily basis. Just my two cents worth of advice...

Reading these replies made me remember a setting that I changed on the DVD player the same day I got the set. (Thanks guys.) I've got a Panasonic RP-72, which has a "black level" or "black corrector" setting. The only two options are "lighter" and "darker". I think the latter is default, which is where I've left it all along. I think I may have changed it to "lighter" when I switched the player to 16:9 mode. I'll have to change it back tonight and see if that makes any difference with my problem.
Update: The "black level control" setting doesn't seem to have any effect on the white line issue.

Kainan, how would you compare the hd picture watching monday night football between your new a10 and your elite?

One of the biggest differences is the screen. The Elites have the high gloss screens on them. I'm one of the people (maybe the few) who like this. It gives everything a fresh film look to me. As I watched the game tonight I missed that a little but liked the intensity of the color and brightness of the A10. The A10 looks better (to me) in contrast and color. Even though I have the sharpness turned down to about 30 the players looked well defined. Everything looked great.

I also switched over to watch a bit of the other prime time shows which have quite a bit of darker scenes in them (CSI and another similar show on another network). The picture looked very good most of the time. There were moments when I thought that the Elite produced a better picture because it seems to simply have a better range of blacks but overall I liked the A10 about as much. As the HD content gets better and better I feel the A10 will shine. When given good material it does well even with blacks (although it is the weak point). When given bad HD material I see the blacks get jumbled (I suppose that is the black crush people talk about). Changing the settings as mentioned here helped and I have my sharpness turned down even further. I can still remember when I got my Elite and everyone said to turn the sharpness down to 0 and I very well may have had it all the way down when I unhooked it. The TV didn't need the sharpness if everything else was right. For the same reason I feel like I like the A10 with this adjustment. If you are getting a crystal clear picture then why jack the sharpness up to create problems? I would rather smooth and even what some would call a little soft rather than an over inhanced mess with jagged edges and halos.
The bummer of it is that I will be calling them back tomorrow about the 4:3 showing up incorrectly. I don't think I should have to live with it being wider at the bottom than at the top. Something is not set up right in the TV. I'll keep up with the thread and if I can contribute then I will certainly do so. As of tonight I'm back on track and liking the A10 picture. The only real question is, "Would I have liked the A10 blacks better on Halo 2 if I had the Iris set to 1 and to low or would I have seen no difference and gotten the A20 55?" Hmm.. maybe I shouldnt' think so much.. LOL! :confused:

I have set my A10 to approximately these settings and concur that DVDs and SD from cable look a lot better than they did. Thanks!

I will try to go 24 hours without changing a setting :)


I know exactly what you are saying. It's so hard not to constantly mess with the settings.

The thing is, it's not the TV, it's the quality variances in cable or whatever broadcast you are receiving.

Once I settled on these settings and held off on tweaking I have become very satisfied. There are still SD and analog channels that look shabby, but they are going to look shabby no matter what you do. I find these settings give you the best pictrue quality through the widest ranges of input.

I can't wait until someone calibrates one and posts info in here. Until then I am pretty happy with the settings.

I started off with component and went to HDMI on day two. I just plugged the component cables back in and flipped back and forth between the inputs. The HDMI looked so much better, I then punched in the settings for the component input and it got better but I still think HDMI has the edge.

50"A10 with SA 8300HDDVR box Comcast cable and AR HDMI cable

Where in the 8300 HD 'Advanced Setup' do you see a pass through function. So far I have only come across the six screen formats and have chosen 1080i and 480i Widescreen. If I choose other formats I don't get widescreen on the HD channels. (The only working HD channel I have at the moment is DiscHD). Using the 'Easy Setup' did not give me 16:9. The Time Warner tech was mostly useless.

The resolution info above the clock always shows 720.

Any suggestions would be appreciated


I am running HDMI now and my only options are
AUTO HDMI/DVI
Fixed
Upconvert-1
Upconvert-2

The auto HDMI seems to work just like pass through did.

When I had it hooked up with component I had the pass through option as well.

Where I find the setting is once the STB is on and you are viewing whatever, hit the Menu button twice. Scroll up or down to Set:Picture Format. Then left on your arrow pad and you are there changing it.

This is on an 8300HDDVR.


An Option I do not have and I cannot figure out why is an Audio option to select Dolby Digital when connected with HDMI in the menu.

I must second the importance of checking and adjusting your DVD player settings after getting the new tv set and component cables.

I have an old Panasonic DVD-A120 player and at first it actually looked BETTER with my old S-Video cable than the component cables.

Then I got out the user manual and set the player to 16:9 mode and set the black level to DARKER and things improved greatly.

There were some strange low light checkerboard like blockish artifacts that disappeared once I changed this black level setting.

Also, when watching 4:3 footage, the black level for a scene change was not dark enough. In other words, the "black bars" on the left and right sides were black, yet the main picture was a dark shade of grey.

After changing the setting, the black level for the scene change image matched up with the back bars on the sides.

Overall, the internal Sony upscaler/deinterlacer (480i -> 720p) is more than adequate for my needs (which is nice quality but on a limited budget). I am going to pass on blowing at least another 150+ bucks on an "upscaling" DVD player and instead put my money towards a DVD-HD or BLU-RAY player next year. Even so, maybe for fun someday I'll take my PC w/DVD-ROM drive for a test drive as an upscaling DVD player.

FYI, I second Wal-Mart as a non-mailorder alternative to overpriced component cables. I was able to pick up a set of Philips component cables (no audio connections) for under ten bucks.

Other KDF-E42A10 observations:

I see a little self-correcting "lipsync" video/audio sync problems on the Tonight Show from my local OTA NBC HD station. I suspect that the problem is with NBC or the TV station and not the Sony.

There is a little "underscan" on the VGA input if you are outputting VGA / 720p from a High Def PC capture card (in my case AccessDTV card). Even if you are already displaying a 16:9 image, the "zoom" button can still stretch the screen out if desired.

The Sony ATSC tuner is better than the AccessDTV ATSC tuner. However, I did experience one station (WTIC-DT FOX 61 Hartford) with messed up channel mapping. The "real" channel is 31.3, and the "mapped" channel is 61.1 For some reason, the tuner does not like this. I believe that it is trying to lock into 31.1 instead of 31.3 and gets confused. However, if I select the "real" 31.3 address with my remote control, it works fine.

The acceptable off-axis viewing angle seems to shrink if you use different picture settings. In other words, off-axis viewing is excellent when checking out a floor model that is set to "VIVID" mode, but when you get home and change your set to "STANDARD" or a custom mode suddenly it is no longer "excellent". It is still good enough for my needs so I am not returning the set but it is worth knowing about this phenomenon if you are buying for a living room with a wide view angle requirement. I suspect that this phenomenon is true for all projection displays and not just for this specific model.

I currently have the Sony KP-46WT510 CRT rear projection. I've liked the PQ since day one (purchased the calibration DVD w

1. Will the "stretch" used to stretch the 4:3 broadcast picture from standard cable be the same as my CRT? Both TV's have the "Wide Zoom" which is what I use on my TV now, but are they the same?

2. Is the "black crush" going to be noticeable, or can it be fixed completely with the Iris settings?

3. I view the tv from about 13 feet. At this distance, will I notice the screen door effect?

Thanks all. I've read as much as I could in this thread, but I certainly might have missed something.

1. wide zoom mode on the 50A10 has the same effect as wide zoom on my 34xs955. actually, it's little bit better on my a10. on my 34xs955 the scrolling text at the bottom of the screen on CNN is cut off, on the a10 i can see all of the text completely.

i agree, i like sony's wide zoom mode better than other MFR's versions of wide zoom. i also own a panasonic dlp and the stretch zoom on that tv looks very unnatural, so i just live with black bars.

I have set my A10 to approximately these settings and concur that DVDs and SD from cable look a lot better than they did. Thanks!

I will try to go 24 hours without changing a setting :)

I agree! I have something very similar to these setting as well. SD picture greatly improved but take it with a grain of salt. It's all about source. Some channels look better than others. But overall, its an improvement. HD picture is very good on these settings as well. I will try HDMI in a few days after ordering one yesterday! From what I've read some have been surprised by the improved PQ between HDMI and component. We'll see.
With so much customization at my fingertips its tough to leave the settings ALONE for a bit to really evaluate the picture. Like Samuel L. once said, "I'm trying REAL HARD, Ringo."
We do really need a setting/tweaks thread for these sets! Someone started on a while back I thought but it seems to have disappeared :(

I've been tracking various threads on this forum for over a year now. I was finally getting ready to go the DLP route when I first heard about the new Sony models a few months back. Last year's 655 was 2" too big to fit in my space, so I'm glad they put the speaker below.

Needless to say, I was very excited to finally see the 50" at my local Tweeter last week -- they had it in a separate room directly across from the new Sammy 5067 DLP, so it gave me a great chance to compare them directly. I really liked the look of the A10 as soon as I saw it. Though no expert, I did think that blacks were improved, and I had to get close (within 3 feet) to see any SDE. Having read all the posts on here, I could see the red push that others described when I looked for it, but switching the setting off of Vivid made an improvement. And to me, the A10 picture just didn't seem as artifical/overprocessed as DLP images (guess I'm not a fan of Sammy's DNie).

I expect to still watch quite a bit of SD programming, which is what made me interested in this TV in the first place. I know that I shouldn't expect SD to look that good on a HDTV, but I was encouraged from what I've read on here about LCD RP handling SD better than DLPs. And when the Tweeter salesman was switching to their Tivo to show some HD Monday Night Football (which looked *great*), I saw an SD signal that had a smoke effect in the background. It looked fine on the Sony, but I noticed color banding in the smoke when I turned to watch it on the 5067.

After watching it for a half-hour, I was hooked. I dragged the wife back two days later and bought one. Didn't get as good of a deal as some people have mentioned (there doesn't seem to be the same type of price wars around here). And for what it's worth, I bought the Extended Warranty also (had some good experiences in the past with getting brand new items when things break). They've got a 60-day price match, so hopefully will be able to get some of that back. And it was sort of worth it to buy from a place where they actually knew about the TV -- got tired of having to educate the BB/CC/Sears salesmen about this stuff each time I wanted to see if it was in stock. ;)

I'm also following the idea of a previous poster and am signing up for both the TW cablecard *and* HD DVR so I can compare the two. TV arrives on Friday, TimeWarner on Saturday! Got my DVE disc ready too...

Thanks for all the great posts that people have written -- it's made a huge difference for me.

I've been tracking various threads on this forum for over a year now. I was finally getting ready to go the DLP route when I first heard about the new Sony models a few months back. Last year's 655 was 2" too big to fit in my space, so I'm glad they put the speaker below.

Needless to say, I was very excited to finally see the 50" at my local Tweeter last week -- they had it in a separate room directly across from the new Sammy 5067 DLP, so it gave me a great chance to compare them directly. I really liked the look of the A10 as soon as I saw it. Though no expert, I did think that blacks were improved, and I had to get close (within 3 feet) to see any SDE. Having read all the posts on here, I could see the red push that others described when I looked for it, but switching the setting off of Vivid made an improvement. And to me, the A10 picture just didn't seem as artifical/overprocessed as DLP images (guess I'm not a fan of Sammy's DNie).

I expect to still watch quite a bit of SD programming, which is what made me interested in this TV in the first place. I know that I shouldn't expect SD to look that good on a HDTV, but I was encouraged from what I've read on here about LCD RP handling SD better than DLPs. And when the Tweeter salesman was switching to their Tivo to show some HD Monday Night Football (which looked *great*), I saw an SD signal that had a smoke effect in the background. It looked fine on the Sony, but I noticed color banding in the smoke when I turned to watch it on the 5067.

After watching it for a half-hour, I was hooked. I dragged the wife back two days later and bought one. Didn't get as good of a deal as some people have mentioned (there doesn't seem to be the same type of price wars around here). And for what it's worth, I bought the Extended Warranty also (had some good experiences in the past with getting brand new items when things break). They've got a 60-day price match, so hopefully will be able to get some of that back. And it was sort of worth it to buy from a place where they actually knew about the TV -- got tired of having to educate the BB/CC/Sears salesmen about this stuff each time I wanted to see if it was in stock. ;)

I'm also following the idea of a previous poster and am signing up for both the TW cablecard *and* HD DVR so I can compare the two. TV arrives on Friday, TimeWarner on Saturday! Got my DVE disc ready too...

Thanks for all the great posts that people have written -- it's made a huge difference for me.

I believe the Fry's in San Diego has it onsale for 20% off (at least they did a couple days ago).

The bummer of it is that I will be calling them back tomorrow about the 4:3 showing up incorrectly. I don't think I should have to live with it being wider at the bottom than at the top. Something is not set up right in the TV.

This is normal for RPTVs. It has to do with optics and the way the lense projects the image onto the screen. Exchanging it may get you a TV that looks slightly worse or slightly better. It's not worth the hassle.

Hey guys, great thread!!! I have noticed a few comments on larger pixel structure/more apparent SDE on the A10's as opposed to the 620's. Just wondering if those that have experience could comment--is the difference significant? I only want 50" nothing smaller and I'm going to be sitting 8.5-9 ft away from the TV and am wondering if maybe the 620 wouldn't be the better way to go for me.

On top of that the 50" 620 is now selling here in Canada for 700$ less than the A10's are listed--with that much of a price difference(plus I'm assuming there'd be even more flexibility on the 620's price) is the A10 worth the difference? I'm referring specifically to the iris, i know at first it was a definite yes, but now that many of you have had it for a while and have seen it's advantages/limitations is it still a yes?

Thanks!
JASON

edit:should have been 620's

My viewing distance is about the same as yours and I really like the 50" versus the 42". Last week I stepped off 8' at Best Buy and couldn't see SDE on the 50" A10. I have 20/20 vision with my contacts and I had to get more to about 5'-6' to see it.

I see no SDE whatsoever. The pixel size thing may be true but until I see it written down in a sony spec sheet I have no idea whether it's just a rumour or myth or what.

At CC and BB I stood anywhere from 2 feet away to 15 feet away from the A10 and A20 and I never once thought about pixel size.

In my house, I sit 7.5 feet away from the A10 and have it at eye level when sitting on a couch. So around 2.5 feet off the ground.

After reading through all 76 pages over the last week I am pretty intrigued by this set. What's the overall impression of fast motion performance? Anytime I've stopped to look at the LCD sets I've been very unimpressed with the motion blur they display.

Also, the way my living room has a built in media area I will be placing a new TV about 5 ft high, will this create a dark image from and LCD set at seating level?

Anyone know why they didnt include an hour counter for the lamp? or if there is one maybe hidden? Seems like a valuable feature you should have for a lamp that needs replacing every x amount of hours..

Chris

This is normal for RPTVs. It has to do with optics and the way the lense projects the image onto the screen. Exchanging it may get you a TV that looks slightly worse or slightly better. It's not worth the hassle.
Are you serious? My Elite looked perfect in 4:3 when it comes to this. I figured the main projection component need to change the angle slightly and it would get rid of it. When the 4:3 image isn't all that big (compared to the 58" that is) it seems pretty noticable to have 4 1/2" width at the bottom and 4 7/8ths at the top on each side. Do others have this issue?

Anyone know why they didnt include an hour counter for the lamp? or if there is one maybe hidden? Seems like a valuable feature you should have for a lamp that needs replacing every x amount of hours..

Chris


I'd like to know this too. It would be a very useful feature. I am just thinking of buying a spare lamp and keeping it in a safe place. Then if my lamp fails in the next two years I will still have it under warranty, but no down time.

Is the hour counter in the service menu maybe?

Are you serious? My Elite looked perfect in 4:3 when it comes to this. I figured the main projection component need to change the angle slightly and it would get rid of it. When the 4:3 image isn't all that big (compared to the 58" that is) it seems pretty noticable to have 4 1/2" width at the bottom and 4 7/8ths at the top on each side. Do others have this issue?

The A10s use cheaper optics. Mine has a similar issue but I always use Wide Zoom for 4:3 content.

The A10s use cheaper optics. Mine has a similar issue but I always use Wide Zoom for 4:3 content.

Man, this is surprising. I thought technology was getting better and better in all aspects. Is there anything they can do about this problem? Much of the time I don't want to stretch the content.

Are you serious? My Elite looked perfect in 4:3 when it comes to this. I figured the main projection component need to change the angle slightly and it would get rid of it. When the 4:3 image isn't all that big (compared to the 58" that is) it seems pretty noticable to have 4 1/2" width at the bottom and 4 7/8ths at the top on each side. Do others have this issue?

Remember that your Elite has a much deeper cabinet depth, which would make it easier to avoid optical distortions than on the slimmer A-10 cabinet. As for the bar size, you are only talking an 8% difference in width top to bottom...that really isn't much at all given the optics etc. Also, the A-10 is really a 'budget' model as large TV's go, whereas your Elite was a premium model. The 50 inch A-10 is already selling for 2 grand at times, which is about one- third lower than a year ago for the GWIV. If you can't stand that minor distortion, take it back, and keep on shopping. I am not sure if you can find a micro-display that won't have this issue to some extent.

Remember that your Elite has a much deeper cabinet depth, which would make it easier to avoid optical distortions than on the slimmer A-10 cabinet. As for the bar size, you are only talking an 8% difference in width top to bottom...that really isn't much at all given the optics etc. Also, the A-10 is really a 'budget' model as large TV's go, whereas your Elite was a premium model. The 50 inch A-10 is already selling for 2 grand at times, which is about one- third lower than a year ago for the GWIV. If you can't stand that minor distortion, take it back, and keep on shopping. I am not sure if you can find a micro-display that won't have this issue to some extent.


Hmm... loving games makes for a love hate relationship with TV purchases. If I didn't play games then I would still have the $2K in my pocket and be a happy camper for another year or two (or more). I understand that I bought the top of the line then. I guess I just thought that a $2K HDTV would be equal in all ways to a $5K TV that is 4 years old. Oh well, life is full of compromises. DVDs and gaming look awesome. I can deal with the bars being off for the small amount of 4:3 I watch. Thanks for the input. I guess my sister is getting a good deal on my Elite at $1K.