Receiver............................hdmi..version....MSRP... ............LipSync***....Video+

Denon AVR-2806.................2.......1.1.......shipping in Sept.
Denon AVR-2807.................2.......1.1......$1,099................ ......?...............C
Denon AVR-3806.................2.......1.1.......$1,299............... ......S...............C
Denon AVR-4306.................3.......1.1.......$1,999............... ......S...............SC
Denon AVR-4806.................3.......1.1.......$3,500............... .....S...............CT
Denon AVR-5805.................3.......?.........$6,000............... ......S...............US
Integra DTR-10.5................2*.....?.........$3,800 to $4950..........S...............T
Integra Research RDC 7.1.....2*.....1.0......$4,000 to $5000
H/K AVR 440......................2.......1.1.......
H/K AVR 640......................2.......1.1.......$1,499
H/K AVR 740......................2.......1.1.......$3,499........... .........?................CS
JVC RX-D401B....................2.......?
JVC RX-D401S....................2.......?
JVC RX-D701B....................2.......?
JVC RX-D701S/702B.............2.......1.1........$880.................... ..?................S
Marantz SR9600..................2.......?..........$4,200
Onkyo TX-SR803.................2.......1.1........$1000.............. ....?................N
Onkyo TX-NR1000...............3*......?..........$5,000
Panasonic SA-XR70S............1.......1.1**.......$500
Philips DFR 9000.................2.......?...........~$975.............. ......S............CS
Pioneer/Elite VSX-72TXV.......2.......1.1........$1,200....................?.. ..........C
Pioneer/Elite VSX-74TXV.......2.......1.1........$1,500....................S.. ..........C
Samsung AV-R3000.............4.......?..........$5,000................. ....?............ST
Sony STR-DA7100ES............2.......?..........$2,000............... ......?.............CS
Yamaha HTR-5990...............2.......?.........$1,000................. ....Y.............C
Yamaha RX-V1600...............2.......1.1.......$1,100................ .....?.............S
Yamaha RX-V2600...............2.......1.1.......$1,400................ .....G............S
Yamaha RX-V4600...............2.......1.1.......$1,900................ .....?.............N

*No audio via hdmi.
**Input is 1.1, output is 1.0.
***Delay for lip sync: S - Separate for each input, G - Global-one setting for all inputs, N - no, Y - yes, but not sure if it is global or per input
+ C - Converts analog video to hdmi output; U - Upgrade due to convert analog to hdmi; N - no conversion to hdmi; S - Scaling; T - Transcoding

Okay, that got posted before I was ready. Since it is here, can someone help me on setting up a table, I can't find a tab code.

I want to start a thread on hdmi enabled receivers.

While sorting the models with HDMI..
Be sure to note the differences between HDMI switching as well as HDMI processing capabilties for audio or both audio and video..

Don't forget the Integra Research RDC 7.1 (link (http://www.integraresearch.com/model.cfm?id=1&level=1) $4000-$5000 MSRP depending on options) and the Integra DTR-10.5 (link (http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTR-10.5&class=Receiver&p=i), $3800-$4950 MSRP depending on options).

Both have 2 HDMI inputs, 1 output, both process video, no audio through HDMI.

My budget is under $1500 so I can easily upgrade later! So might as well wait for NEW ELITES then!

You better check the SA-XR70S again. Because I think it only has 1 HDMI input, and not 2 like you have it listed at.

You better check the SA-XR70S again. Because I think it only has 1 HDMI input, and not 2 like you have it listed at.

I pulled the inputs from here:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_SA_XR70S/4507-6466_7-31290106.html?tag=tab

If you are certain that it is one input, I will change it. Thanks.

Don't forget the Integra Research RDC 7.1 (link (http://www.integraresearch.com/model.cfm?id=1&level=1) $4000-$5000 MSRP depending on options) and the Integra DTR-10.5 (link (http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTR-10.5&class=Receiver&p=i), $3800-$4950 MSRP depending on options).

Both have 2 HDMI inputs, 1 output, both process video, no audio through HDMI.

I didn't include them because they don't process the audio. Seemed kinda pointless to me.

any word yet on whether the denon 2806 or 3806 will have HDMI inputs?

I pulled the inputs from here:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_SA_XR70S/4507-6466_7-31290106.html?tag=tab

If you are certain that it is one input, I will change it. Thanks.


Nowhere in that link you posted, do they say it has 2 HDMI inputs. It only says it has 2 HDMI connectors on the back.

If you would have also read the review they did in it, you would have seen this on page 3 of the review.

"If you have two HDMI sources, however, the XR70S may be a disappointment: since it has only one HDMI input, it cannot switch between two HDMI devices connected to one display. The main practical function of the XR70S's HDMI connection is to ease cable clutter by eliminating the need for a separate digital-audio connection between the receiver and the source. It would have been nice for the unit to feature a second HDMI input"

http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_SA_XR70S/4505-6466_7-31290106-4.html?tag=top

I didn't include them because they don't process the audio. Seemed kinda pointless to me.

The Onkyo doesn't either and it's in your list. Not sure why it is pointless, most of the source devices I've looked at do not output audio over HDMI anyway. HDMI is great for digital video; there are many existing transports (coax, optical, firewire) for digital audio. Plus, these are card-based receivers, so a new card could add HDMI audio functionality. Thought you were coming up with an exhaustive list, guess I misunderstood.

Nowhere in that link you posted, do they say it has 2 HDMI inputs. It only says it has 2 HDMI connectors on the back.

If you would have also read the review they did in it, you would have seen this on page 3 of the review.

"If you have two HDMI sources, however, the XR70S may be a disappointment: since it has only one HDMI input, it cannot switch between two HDMI devices connected to one display. The main practical function of the XR70S's HDMI connection is to ease cable clutter by eliminating the need for a separate digital-audio connection between the receiver and the source. It would have been nice for the unit to feature a second HDMI input"

http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_SA_XR70S/4505-6466_7-31290106-4.html?tag=top
My bad, I'll fix.

The Onkyo doesn't either and it's in your list. Not sure why it is pointless, most of the source devices I've looked at do not output audio over HDMI anyway. HDMI is great for digital video; there are many existing transports (coax, optical, firewire) for digital audio. Plus, these are card-based receivers, so a new card could add HDMI audio functionality. Thought you were coming up with an exhaustive list, guess I misunderstood.

Okay. I'm learning the audio side of things, so I can use all the help I can get. Personally, I like the one cable solution, so these other's aren't of interest to me. I didn't realize that the Onkyo doesn't process the video.

You should add the 2 new Pioneer/Elite AVRs the VSX-72TXV ($1200) and the VSX-74TXV ($1500). Both have (2) HDMI IN and (1) HDMI OUT and are 1.1 HDMI Compliant, also they do video conversion to HDMI.

You should add the 2 new Pioneer/Elite AVRs the VSX-72TXV ($1200) and the VSX-74TXV ($1500). Both have (2) HDMI IN and (1) HDMI OUT and are 1.1 HDMI Compliant, also they do video conversion to HDMI.

Thanks.

Great table, thanks for putting this together.

About the pioneers, the video upconversion is a GREAT feature. Can't wait for these to hit the streets.

--nw

A word of caution seems to be in order here:

Some of the new receivers and processors equipped with HDMI will take incoming analog video and output them through the HDMI outputs. Great feature, but that is ALL they are doing -- taking the video and converting it from analog to digital. That is NOT "upconversion".

A smaller percentage of those units will be able to do the above, but also process any incoming HDMI streams to "extract" the audio. Better.

A MUCH smaller percentage of those units will do all of the above PLUS process incoming video so that it is upscaled to 720 or 1080 AND enable graphics to be seen REGARDLESS of the incoming signal's format. THAT is "upconversion", and few, if any products come to ming that do that today. That i s"best".

Having any one or the other (or not) doesn't mean a unit is intrindically good or bad, it simply means that the manfuacturer is reacting to market requirements within their cost constraints. However, the phrase "upconversion" seems to get thrown around a bit too much and often (though well meaningfully) gets applied to units that simpyl DO NOT do upscaling.

Upconversion: converting from one signal type to a "higher" one.

Examples: composite->s-video, composite->component, s-video->component.

The signal's "content" is not changed, ie. composite and s-video remain as 480i, even when upconverted to component..

It is debatable whether analog to HDMI should be called upconversion, because it is really transcoding.



Transcoding: converting the signal's encoding.

In the case of analog (composite, s-video, component) to HDMI, the analog signal is converted to a digital one. The digital signal retains the same resolution as the input signal, ie. composite, s-video remain 480i, component remains as the original of 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i.



Upscaling: resampling the signal to a higher resolution. Upscaling lives alongside upconversion and transcoding, since upscaling often also upconverts or transcodes the signal.

This is case where an input signal is converted to a higher resolution signal, and possibly also changed to a different scan type (progressive or interlaced).

Examples: if a device outputs only 1080i (or 720p) signals. All input signals (480i, 480p, 720p) are scaled to the output format.


Occasionally, you may find a device that downconverts (ie. component 480i->svideo) or downscales (ie. 1080i->480p).

No argument, though in your first example I'd qibble that it should be "cross-conversion", not "Up"conversion, as you aren't really "upping" anything, rather changing the existing form.

Transcoding also works with accuracy, I guess it's a matter of taste as to whether you prefer "cross-conversion" or "transcoding". I'd avoid "Upconversion" as it implies that the scan rate has been changed.

But that's only my $0.02. YMMV

Upconversion: converting from one signal type to a "higher" one.

Examples: composite->s-video, composite->component, s-video->component.

The signal's "content" is not changed, ie. composite and s-video remain as 480i, even when upconverted to component..

It is debatable whether analog to HDMI should be called upconversion, because it is really transcoding.



Transcoding: converting the signal's encoding.

In the case of analog (composite, s-video, component) to HDMI, the analog signal is converted to a digital one. The digital signal retains the same resolution as the input signal, ie. composite, s-video remain 480i, component remains as the original of 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i.



Upscaling: resampling the signal to a higher resolution. Upscaling lives alongside upconversion and transcoding, since upscaling often also upconverts or transcodes the signal.

This is case where an input signal is converted to a higher resolution signal, and possibly also changed to a different scan type (progressive or interlaced).

Examples: if a device outputs only 1080i (or 720p) signals. All input signals (480i, 480p, 720p) are scaled to the output format.


Occasionally, you may find a device that downconverts (ie. component 480i->svideo) or downscales (ie. 1080i->480p).


Some call it cross-conversion...
Others call it upconversion..
And some even call it transcoding..

In the majority of cases, it is simply taking one format as an input and outputting another format for ease of a single connection to the display.... Such as S-Video IN and Component video OUT..

However there are some additional cases..
Where the input signal will remain in its native format but some video processing such as NR or edge enhancement is done.. While the output format is in the same as the input..

Additionally, certain AVRs have the capability of digitizing the input format and then scaling/enhancing it to a higher level for output.. Such as an Component Video IN (480i) and then output as a 720p

To do the more intense video processing requires a heavy duty video DSP (with significant resources) such as a PixelWorks, Silicon Optix or Faroujda.. And found only in the higher end AVRs or Processors..

Yes, the term "upconversion" can be misleading. It really depends on whether you think that component is "up" from s-video.

I should note that a lot of receivers that do s-video->component do not do component->s-video, so it isn't truly "cross" conversion - a term which implies both directions.

Good work Carl.

BTW, the Panny XR70 has HDMI 1.1 on the input, HDMI 1.0 on the output.

Great post!

Denon 2806 and 3806 - 2 hdmi 1.1 inputs each, out sept

Is it true the JVC 702B will be both an HDMI switch and also upscale from the HDMI ports?

~Josh

Is it true the JVC 702B will be both an HDMI switch and also upscale from the HDMI ports?

It will do transcoding.
It will convert other forms of video inputs to a HDMI video output, but it does not "upscale" anything in the process.

Jnc and reldavidson - I updated per your info. Thanks.

It really looks like the JVC RX-702B is going to be the one to buy. It looks like it will be doing true up-conversion (not transcoding) through the HDMI using the 2310 Faroudja upconversion/scaler. Here is what John from Integrity Home Theater had to say about the 702B:



"Hi Josh!

Just talked to Brett, my JVC rep. They just received training on the piece.
Yes, it does have Faroudja upconversion/scaling. We do not know which processor - I assume the 2310. Yes, it will work in a similar manner to the IScan, but probably not quite as good (the IScan is a fairly expensive piece on its own). Still, the Faroudja is what is in the Infocus and SIM units, and it does an excellent
job. The 702B should process any input and convert it to HDMI.

John

P.S. We are still looking at some time in September for this piece."



What does everybody think? J&R has it listed with its specs:

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4026169#productTabDetails

~Josh

Until you get a official release or a full set of specs from JVC themselves, I would not be betting the farm on it having a Faroudja based upconversion/scaler built into it. Just because a dealer say he thinks it does, but yet he can't say which chip it has, is far from being anything official. So far there has been nothing from JVC saying that it has any sort of scaler function.

Johnla-

If it turns out that it does indeed have the scaler built-in to it, would you agree this would be a great value? I just want opinions as I am getting ready to buy a receiver in approximately 60 days or so.

~Josh

Do we know the count of HDMIs on the Denon 4306?

That's the not-so-overpriced model slated to fit between the 3806 and 4806.

The 4806 has 3 HDMI inputs & 1 DVI; with 1 HDMI output (also converts analog to HDMI). I can't tell if it's HDMI 1.0 or 1.1,though. Anyone know? Here's (http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/AVR4806_E3.pdf) the spec sheet from Denon USA's website.

The 4806 has 3 HDMI inputs & 1 DVI; with 1 HDMI output (also converts analog to HDMI). I can't tell if it's HDMI 1.0 or 1.1,though. Anyone know? Here's (http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/AVR4806_E3.pdf) the spec sheet from Denon USA's website.

The 4806 is HDMI 1.1. :)

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=2#PID808

If your counting dvi as-well then the 4806, 4306 and 3806 have a single dvi input along with their hdmi connections.

If it turns out that it does indeed have the scaler built-in to it, would you agree this would be a great value? I just want opinions as I am getting ready to buy a receiver in approximately 60 days or so.

Sure, even without the scaler it's a good price considering the many low pre-order prices I see people offering them for. But if it does have a scaler, don't expect it to be anything like that of a add-on unit like a iScan is.

My question was about the 4306 not the 4806. I'm not sure I can justify the price of the 4806.

Just my suggestion, but for the purposes of this list, I suggest TRANSCODING to refer to units that can transcode ALL analog inputs to the HDMI output port, and SCALING for units that can well err.... re-scale the input resolution higher (or lower).

Carl has kindly said he will add these items to the table if people can help give him the facts.

Just a note to remember - some of these units may include chips capable of performing these functions, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they will implement them (at least in the first firmware release).

All,

I am considering the RX-V4600. I have an OPPO DVD player and Direct TV (in HD) with the Hughes DVR/decoder. Will I need to run the Hughes signal through a DVDR type of product to get the upscaling, or will the Yamaha handle the channels which AREN'T in HD?

Thanks,

Bill

Looks like Denon is coming out with their 2806 and 3806 receivers in September... good for me, that's when Screen Innovations is releasing the Mirage black screen to the public too...

We move into our new house sometime in October... but I need to know what cables to run NOW before the sheet rock goes up.

I'm thinking of just running a 30ft DVI (Infocus 7205 Projector Input) and the other end of the cable will have an HDMI connector for the HDMI output on the receiver. If the receiver should have DVI, or if I change the projector in future there's lots of adapters available.

Any idea when the new Pioneer Elite receivers will be out?

I'm very disappointed with Harmon Kardon, my original pick was the AVR 7300 til I learned it had no HDMI inputs or outputs on it. HK hasnt given a word as to when they MIGHT even think about coming out with a better receiver.

Any idea when the new Pioneer Elite receivers will be out?

Already covered in another thread but both the 72TX and 74TXi will out with a few weeks.

I'm very disappointed with Harmon Kardon, my original pick was the AVR 7300 til I learned it had no HDMI inputs or outputs on it. HK hasnt given a word as to when they MIGHT even think about coming out with a better receiver.

HK will introduce their new AVRs @ CEDIA Show (2nd week of September), note that the 7300 is now almost 1 1/2 years old...
But still a great deal at its closeout pricing...

You must have a mole somewhere in the HK organization who feeds you this stuff. Cool. Any idea what these models in? Didn't hear back on those HK training tapes, as I want to make sure my installer's people have goen through them.

You must have a mole somewhere in the HK organization who feeds you this stuff. Cool. Any idea what these models in? Didn't hear back on those HK training tapes, as I want to make sure my installer's people have goen through them.


No mole.. ;)
Just a well informed distributor..
For the last 4 years HK has made their new model introductions @ CEDIA, and this should be no exception..
And based on the significant advances done by the HK product development group they should have a few surprises since they were the first to:
1. Design a Faroujda processor within an AVR
2. Build in high power, audiophile performance digital amplifiers
3. Introduces a Room EQ software that addresses the low frequency issues (<100Hz)
4. Continue to advance other DSP post-processing modes including Logic 7
5. Introduced front panel digital inputs, now standard on AVRs
6. Quad X-over/bass manager, separate setting for each speaker (L/R fronts, center, side L/R surrounds and back L/R surrounds)
7. Provided digital bass manager capability for 6/8 channel inputs
8. Switchable front panel A/V jacks for IN and OUT

While still being the honest guys when it comes to specs for output power ratings rather than inflating these to be 2x3 times then they really are..

Code: Thanks, that makes sense. Any word on those tapes? I just want to make sure my dealer/installer has all the latest info. Are these available to the public?

My question was about the 4306 not the 4806. I'm not sure I can justify the price of the 4806.

Oops, sorry. That's what I get for not paying attention :p

Accoring to this summary sheet (http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/DenonAVR3806AVR4306receiver.php) by the audioholics, the 4306 has 2 HDMI inputs, 1 output, and no separate DVI (like the 4806 has). It does do transcoding, however, which appartently the 3806 doesn't.

I assume the chart is accurate, these guys went to a Denon "line show" where the pieces were displayed & intro'd.

No problem, Enigma. I guess it's a 4806 or bust.

This is going to prove to be a kobayashi maru for me, I'm sure.

This is one thing that has been bothering me about AVRs currently on the market. They have DVI/HDMI ins and outs yet their video up conversion is "only" to composite on most if not all of the $2000 or less models (the JVCD702 digial supposedly will retail at $799 which is an insane bargain if it actually up-converts to HDMI).

This newbie wants to know; what good are HDMI ins/outs if the AVR only can up convert to composite? Wouldn't the composite in/out provide the same picture quality?

Feel free to shred me for my ignorance if I'm missing something here.

You probably meant 'component' (3 cable) and not 'composite'.

A couple of things I've read about upscaling and DVI vs HDMI that may be of interest.

First, upscaling should be done at the source. Next best is by the TV (you only need to buy one good design). Least good is by a receiver, but must be better than nothing. So, for example, get a DVD player that upscales and output in digital. (See below for details.)

Re DVI vs HDMI, for the guy putting DVI in his wall, it's not the same. A quote from Secrets of Home theater and High Fidelity's DVD Benchmark 7/2005:

Aside from the macroblocking issue, the Faroudja continues to be one of our favorite de-interlacing/scaling solutions. It is one of only a few true 10 bit video processing chips available, and its diagonal line processing is still the best in the industry. Since the S77 has an HDMI output, it can deliver a true 10 bit video signal if the output is never converted to DVI. There is a common misconception in the electronics world that DVI and HDMI are identical except for HDMI’s ability to carry multi-channel audio signals on top of video. This is not true. DVI outputs 8 bit RGB signals only and cannot carry 10 bit video like HDMI can. In fact, HDMI is actually capable of 12 bit transmission as well. What does this buy you? Well if you are lucky enough to have a display with an HDMI input, you can significantly reduce the contouring artifacts that are commonly associated with digital displays. A lot of this may depend on the internal processing of your display though too. This is one of the gripes I’ve had with DLP based projectors and displays. Most are DVI- based and only incorporate 8 bit processing internally. So contouring in gray ramps is quite evident. You’ll also usually see it in skies and underwater scenes. If you are lucky enough to have a display with an HDMI input, and with high bit processing, this is pretty much eliminated.

DVI outputs 8 bit RGB signals only and cannot carry 10 bit video like HDMI can.
What about component cables can they carry 10 bit or 12 bit video??

Thanks,
Patrick

Great thread, however, nobody has mentioned the TX-SR803 due for release sometime late October. 2 HDMI's in and 1 out and yes, its only switching. THX2 certified 105 watts, should be a popular unit mapped at 999.00. Seems like Onkyo is taking the leap into HDMI switching at a competitive price. Any input?

Great thread, however, nobody has mentioned the TX-SR803 due for release sometime late October. 2 HDMI's in and 1 out and yes, its only switching. THX2 certified 105 watts, should be a popular unit mapped at 999.00. Seems like Onkyo is taking the leap into HDMI switching at a competitive price. Any input?

Do you have a link to any information? It's hard o comment without knowing more about the unit.

Bob

To all intersted, I'm now ready to handle the video separately as the new iScan w/HDMI will do the 4 HDMI + transcoding thing.

So for me -- at least -- 1-2 HDMI is enough to do the job. Yes, that means a $2500-4000 MSRP solution, but it will be good to go for a long while as I'm much less obsessed than many with whatever surround format comes next.

What about component cables can they carry 10 bit or 12 bit video??



Component video is an analog format, therefore once the 8, 10,. 12 or etc. digital video source is converted to analog it can be carried via the component video cables. In this case the key is performance of the digit to analog converters in the source device. For example most of the better DVD players have at least 10-bit D-to-A converters.

Ron Jones

You probably meant 'component' (3 cable) and not 'composite'.

Yes, I did mean component, sorry.

What are the advantages of HDMI ins/outs on an AVR?

I'm getting the Sammy 6168, 1080P TV and the Marantz 8500 AVR and Marantz DV7600 DVD player. I'm getting the 8500 over the 7500 because of the 2 HDMI in (DVI) and the 1 HDMI (DVI) out.

Is it really worth the $600 price difference.

Again, forgive my ignorance but how much difference in PQ will these inputs make? I watch basically DVD movies and HD sports, some network TV.

Will a newbie like me even notice the difference?

Please, save me $600 or justify my spending it.

Yes, I did mean component, sorry.

What are the advantages of HDMI ins/outs on an AVR?

I'm getting the Sammy 6168, 1080P TV and the Marantz 8500 AVR and Marantz DV7600 DVD player. I'm getting the 8500 over the 7500 because of the 2 HDMI in (DVI) and the 1 HDMI (DVI) out.

Is it really worth the $600 price difference.

Again, forgive my ignorance but how much difference in PQ will these inputs make? I watch basically DVD movies and HD sports, some network TV.

Will a newbie like me even notice the difference?

Please, save me $600 or justify my spending it.

The advantage to a HDMI-switching reciever is that when it's attached to a digital TV (which your Samsung 6168 is) there's no switching to analog then back to digital. If your TV were a CRT or a rear projection CRT, it might well not matter much, since the CRT is an analog technology, the digital signal would be converted to an analog signal before the TV could display it. However, your TV is a digital TV, so any analog signal coming in on component cables will be converted to a digital signal inside the TV.

Will it make a difference? Hard to say for sure, depends on your eyes and the analog-to-digital processing inside the 6168. Chances are good there will be fewer chances to see something "off", but whether you'd notice those "off" events, well, that I can't say.

Scott

I'm getting the 8500 over the 7500 because of the 2 HDMI in (DVI) and the 1 HDMI (DVI) out.



The Marantz 8500 has only DVI inputs and output, it does not have any HDMI inputs/outputs. HDMI and DVI are not the same thing, and if you use a DVI adaptor on a HDMI device, so you can view the video of a HDMI device with DVI. Yes you will get the video, but you will also lose the audio capabilities of HDMI. And you would still need to use a additional cable for the audio.

There is a big difference between component and HDMI/DVI, but it's not switching or cable convienience. You will find that new DVD players that upscale do NOT output the increased res over component. It's a CP issue and therefore you will want HDMI/DVI with HDCP at the source(DVD, Sat,...) and in your HDTV.

For me, that simple means - do I want two 12' HDMI cables(plus programming the remote), or two 3' and one 12'. In former case, the receiver's remote is important. One guy pointed out that having audio to the TV via HDMI means that when watching something like news, he could leave his receiver turned off.

Re audio on HDMI - not sure why one would want to pass that thru your receiver, unless our TV knows what to do with it. When something in the future outputs audio on HDMI (like HD-DVD), the source will also output the audio on digital coax, or you can get a new receiver.

The Marantz 8500 has only DVI inputs and output, it does not have any HDMI inputs/outputs. HDMI and DVI are not the same thing, and if you use a DVI adaptor on a HDMI device, so you can view the video of a HDMI device with DVI. Yes you will get the video, but you will also lose the audio capabilities of HDMI. And you would still need to use a additional cable for the audio.

There is a big difference between component and HDMI/DVI, but it's not switching or cable convienience. You will find that new DVD players that upscale do NOT output the increased res over component. It's a CP issue and therefore you will want HDMI/DVI with HDCP at the source(DVD, Sat,...) and in your HDTV.

For me, that simple means - do I want two 12' HDMI cables(plus programming the remote), or two 3' and one 12'. In former case, the receiver's remote is important. One guy pointed out that having audio to the TV via HDMI means that when watching something like news, he could leave his receiver turned off.

Re audio on HDMI - not sure why one would want to pass that thru your receiver, unless our TV knows what to do with it. When something in the future outputs audio on HDMI (like HD-DVD), the source will also output the audio on digital coax, or you can get a new receiver.


So, help me on this, being that this is my first "real" home theater (coming from a 36" CRT and old-school 5.1), is it worth it to get the 8500 or will the 7500 do just fine for me (DVD, HD sports, NO GAMING)?

I don't want to toss money around on something when I'm not even sophisticated enough to know how good it is, compareably speaking.

The rookie thanks you again.

I myself would not pay anything extra for a receiver that just has only DVI and not HDMI now! Not with all the newer receivers that are just starting to come out now that do have HDMI. Denon, Pioneer, JVC are all coming out with mid-priced receivers that have HDMI switching and offer transcoding up to HDMI. Yamaha also as a new receiver that has HDMI switching, but it does not have transcoding up to HDMI. The Marantz 8500 because it only has DVI, as far as inputs for digital video goes, was more or less was outdated on the day it was released.

myself would not pay anything extra for a receiver that just has only DVI and not HDMI now! Not with all the newer receivers that are just starting to come out now that do have HDMI. Denon, Pioneer, JVC are all coming out with mid-priced receivers that have HDMI switching and offer transcoding up to HDMI. Yamaha also as a new receiver that has HDMI switching, but it does not have transcoding up to HDMI. The Marantz 8500 because it only has DVI, as far as inputs for digital video goes, was more or less was outdated on the day it was released.

That's the type of feedback I'm looking for .

Thank you.

That's the type of feedback I'm looking for .

Don't get me wrong, I think the Marantz 8500 is a very nice receiver sonically. But I just don't think it's worth paying a $600 premium for it just to get only 2 DVI inputs, when so many others are now offering HDMI for around the same price as the 8500. And in the case of the new JVC's, for quite a bit less.

Carl, any chance of an updated list?

I myself would not pay anything extra for a receiver that just has only DVI and not HDMI now! *** The Marantz 8500 because it only has DVI, as far as inputs for digital video goes, was more or less was outdated on the day it was released.

I agree. I was interested in the Outlaw 1070 when it would be released, but Outlaw is only including DVI and HDMI connections. Maybe the next Outlaw generation will include HDMI, and I'll take a look at it then.

Carl, any chance of an updated list?
I thought I was up to date. I have been busy of late. What am I missing?

Yes, the JVC will upscale to 720p and 1080i, as well as have a lot of keen connectivity features with networking.

The HDMI receivers list is lacking some info...

The Onkyo/Integra/IR triumverate all convert all video formats to HDMI. It's HDMI 1.0. They have independent lipsync adjustments for all inputs.

Actually, the manual says that they support audio over HDMI...I don't know what formats, though.

Eric

The Onkyo/Integra/IR units can pass audio signals to the TV over HDMI so that the audio can be played over the TV speakers. Those units can't process the HDMI audio for playback over the directly connected speakers. This is described on pages 43-44 of both the TX-NR1000 and the RDC-7.1 manual.

Has there been any word about a new version of the HDMI module? I'm hoping they will announce something during CEDIA at least.

Brian

Will HDMI 1.1 pass through both DVD AUDIO and SACD to the AV RECIEVER/PROCESSORS?

Brian,

We will find out at CEDIA what's a-comin' with Onkyo/Integra/IR. They are very secretive these days...

I don't think HDMI has yet been approved by Sony for SACD. I just use iLink...works great!

Eric

HDMI 1.2 was officially announced today with SACD support and better PC video card support. Now we wait for product announcements.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=572843

Brian

I thought I was up to date. I have been busy of late. What am I missing?

You said that you would add columns for Scaling and Transcoding. I don't have all the definitive answers, but as a start, as far as I know:-

5805 does Scaling, but not transcoding
4806 transcoding but no scaling
Samsung AV-R3000 Scaling and transcoding

This is what I have been able to gather, but if anyone believes this to be incorrect, feel free to post the correction.

You said that you would add columns for Scaling and Transcoding. I don't have all the definitive answers, but as a start, as far as I know:-

5805 does Scaling, but not transcoding
4806 transcoding but no scaling
Samsung AV-R3000 Scaling and transcoding

This is what I have been able to gather, but if anyone believes this to be incorrect, feel free to post the correction.
I updated with your info - thanks for the help!

What does everybody think? J&R has it listed with its specs:

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4026169#productTabDetails

~Josh

Does the mention of close captioning support suggest that this receiver could allow me to see close captioning on my MT700 projector? Some of my DVD's only have close captioning (i.e. not subtitles), and on occasion I would like to be able to display the close captioning. None of the lower priced DVD players seem to support close captioning when connected directly to a FP.

Will HDMI 1.1 pass through both DVD AUDIO and SACD to the AV RECIEVER/PROCESSORS?


HDMI 1.1 will pass DVD-Audio but not SACD..
HDMI 1.2 addresses SACD..

Carl, you updated, but can you publish a new list here please? or do you have it on a website somewhere?

Since the new DVDO VP30 has 4xHDMI in and handles audio too, I am thinking of using that as my main AV switch, and keep my existing AV amp for now. It's a much cheaper and more versatile solution that the top end amps at the moment, and it also gives me a good upgrade path which the new AV amps don't.

Here's another one for the list:

Onkyo TX-NR803 HDMI 2 in/1 out $999

Don't know what flavor of HDMI it is yet.


Eric

Carl, you updated, but can you publish a new list here please? or do you have it on a website somewhere?

Since the new DVDO VP30 has 4xHDMI in and handles audio too, I am thinking of using that as my main AV switch, and keep my existing AV amp for now. It's a much cheaper and more versatile solution that the top end amps at the moment, and it also gives me a good upgrade path which the new AV amps don't.

You're losing me. The list is the 1st post of the thread. Why would I want to post a new list???

very helpful info considering i am in the market for a new receiver w/hdmi, thanks so much.....now to wait, or buy something available now

You're losing me. The list is the 1st post of the thread. Why would I want to post a new list???

Sorry Carl, if you saw this post before I edited it, ignore the first version.

I see that you have updated the first post. Wasn't aware that was possible here (Stupid English Kniggit that I am!)

Onkyo TX-NR803 HDMI 2 in/1 out $999

Don't know what flavor of HDMI it is yet.

1.1 according to Here (http://www.gspr.com/onkyo/txsr803.html)

1.1 according to Here (http://www.gspr.com/onkyo/txsr803.html)

A handy link which also clarifies the model number is TX-SR803 not an NR803.

I'm still not convinced that it's worth going too far out of one's way to get a receiver that has HDMI switching without transcoding. That's a deal-breaker for me!

I was really disappointed when I saw that the new Integra DTR-7.6 (relative of the Onkyo TX-SR803) has 2-in/1-out HDMI switching, but doesn't transcode the other video inputs to HDMI...why bother?

My Integra DTR-10.5 does transcode, and this feature is indispensible, IHMO.

Eric

I have a JVC rx-702b on order and who knows when JVC will ship them. I have found several companies with the Pioneer VSX-72txv, and both units are close in price. I would think the Pioneer would have a better sound quality. Any input? I like the fact of being able to acquire the Pioneer now..but if there is a benefit to the JVC, I am willing to wait. let me know..Thanks!

So, help me on this, being that this is my first "real" home theater (coming from a 36" CRT and old-school 5.1), is it worth it to get the 8500 or will the 7500 do just fine for me (DVD, HD sports, NO GAMING)?

I don't want to toss money around on something when I'm not even sophisticated enough to know how good it is, compareably speaking.

The rookie thanks you again.

checkout this ramsman.....http://www.mobilewhack.com/home_theater/reviews/onkyo_tx-sr803_home_theater_receivers.html

I'm still not convinced that it's worth going too far out of one's way to get a receiver that has HDMI switching without transcoding. That's a deal-breaker for me!

I was really disappointed when I saw that the new Integra DTR-7.6 (relative of the Onkyo TX-SR803) has 2-in/1-out HDMI switching, but doesn't transcode the other video inputs to HDMI...why bother?

My Integra DTR-10.5 does transcode, and this feature is indispensible, IHMO.

Eric

Eric -

Does your 10.5 have audio delay? If so, can it be set for each input?

To my supprice here hasn't been mentioned the Philips digital receiver DFR9000/01 (Model name in Europe) - Here you can find a two page info (*.pdf) sheet about this unit (Eng) (http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/d/dfr9000_01/dfr9000_01_pss_eng.pdf)

2 HDMI inputs - 1 output
Video upscaling (or at least they state so in the infosheet)

Have seen this unit at a local show-out - I don't like the frontpanel :(

Carl,

Yes. And Yes.

Eric

Don't get me wrong, I think the Marantz 8500 is a very nice receiver sonically. But I just don't think it's worth paying a $600 premium for it just to get only 2 DVI inputs, when so many others are now offering HDMI for around the same price as the 8500. And in the case of the new JVC's, for quite a bit less

Let's not forget the Torroid......

Receiver............................hdmi..version....MSRP... ............LipSync***....Video+

Denon AVR-2806.................2.......1.1.......shipping in Sept.
Denon AVR-3806.................2.......1.1.......$1,299............... ......S...............N

*No audio via hdmi.
**Input is 1.1, output is 1.0.
***Delay for lip sync: S - Separate for each input, G - Global-one setting for all inputs, N - no
+ C - Converts analog video to hdmi output; U - Upgrade due to convert analog to hdmi; N - no conversion to hdmi; S - Scaling; T - Transcoding

Carl,

Not sure what you are using as your definitions of "Scaling" and "Transcoding", but according to this thread, the 3806 should have something other than an "N"...maybe a "C"? It seems it converts (with no sort of up-convert).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=587390

Also, the VSX-72TXV converts according to the manu site (hover mouse over the "Video Conversion" tag).
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_272584183_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDet ailComponent

To my supprice here hasn't been mentioned the Philips digital receiver DFR9000/01 (Model name in Europe) - Here you can find a two page info (*.pdf) sheet about this unit (Eng) (http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/d/dfr9000_01/dfr9000_01_pss_eng.pdf)

2 HDMI inputs - 1 output
Video upscaling (or at least they state so in the infosheet)

Have seen this unit at a local show-out - I don't like the frontpanel :(

Is this unit available, or going to be available, in the states? All my google hits come up with Europe stuff.

Carl,

Not sure what you are using as your definitions of "Scaling" and "Transcoding", but according to this thread, the 3806 should have something other than an "N"...maybe a "C"? It seems it converts (with no sort of up-convert).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=587390

Also, the VSX-72TXV converts according to the manu site (hover mouse over the "Video Conversion" tag).
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_272584183_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDet ailComponent

I updated per your info. Not sure where I got the "no conversion" for the 3806. Thanks for the help.

I updated per your info. Not sure where I got the "no conversion" for the 3806. Thanks for the help.

Thanks. For my benefit, can you clarify what your usage of those terms are? I assume by "scaling" you mean it processes the signal from one resolution to another. "Converting" you are referring to copying the signal from one connecter (composite/s-video) type to another (component/hdmi) and specifically hdmi for the purposes of your table? What are "Upgrade" and "Transcoding" in your usage?

I am a n00b :)

Fwiw.. Vanns now has the JVC RX-D702B in stock.

Does the JVC 702 have banana plug compatible speaker terminals for all channels?

Thanks,
Dalton

I'm still not convinced that it's worth going too far out of one's way to get a receiver that has HDMI switching without transcoding. That's a deal-breaker for me!

I was really disappointed when I saw that the new Integra DTR-7.6 (relative of the Onkyo TX-SR803) has 2-in/1-out HDMI switching, but doesn't transcode the other video inputs to HDMI...why bother?

My Integra DTR-10.5 does transcode, and this feature is indispensible, IHMO.

Eric
You may want to research the Yamaha RXV2600 it has a built in scaler and de-interlacer. Its 2 HDMI in and 1 out. It seems to be a steal at under $1400 retail.

Check the Yamaha site for the specs.

I have checked around for a while and I have not found a receiver on the market to date that offers as much for the buck. Most of the new receivers yet to come to the market are offering HDMI switching but not the scaling.

I have one on order, but if anyone knows of something comparable or superior under 2 grand I'd be interested to hear about it.

I don't beleive the RX-D702B has bananas at all, I think they are all pin style. I saw some pics but forget where on the web I saw them. IWill check cache at ummm..office. and see if I have them and post links.

FWIW... this unit is considerable cheaper than the Yamaha up to 2/3rd less and supposedly does both transcoding from the various inputs up to HDMI as well as resolution upscaling. JVC seems to be the price leader, but at what quality/feature cost?

ecost jandr as well as vanns?

You are doing a great job Carl, but just want to coment that I think your "C" and "T" are basically the same thing aren't they?

You might want to replace "C" with "U" for upconversion (I mean from S-Video to component for example - not sure this is the right term), but that would require more details of from what to what for every unit, and I (maybe naively) presume that if it transcodes, it has a 95% that it also upconverts between analog signals too.

Here's what Crutchfield has to say about the 702B's speaker connections:
"Speaker Terminals: All seven speaker terminals have binding post connectors. The binding posts are not 5-way because a plastic collar prevents their use with spade lugs and they are positioned too far apart to be used with dual banana plugs."

Sorry. the pics I had links to were for the Onkyo TX-SR803, not the JVC. :-(

Would really love to see an objective review for this puppy.

Fwiw.. Vanns now has the JVC RX-D702B in stock.

And at an incredible price. I ordered mine this morning. Free shipping, it will arrive next Thursday.

And at an incredible price. I ordered mine this morning. Free shipping, it will arrive next Thursday.

Looking forward to reading your review of the unit.
Will you be using the receiver to upconvert? What Display will you be using?

Guys, an update on the Onkyo TX-SR803. Yesterday I installed and ran for the first time. Sounds great, but some items to watch.
1. HDMI will only carry HDMI (or DVI) input material. Any other source (eg Component) must be output through component. Composite and S-Video will be transcoded to component. So you still need at least 2 connections if you have more than 2 pieces of equipment to attach to the receiver.
2. No banana plugs. This was a real disappointment after using a Denon for the last few years. You have to take off your banana plugs and slip the bare wire into tiny slots and tighten up the terminal.
3. The lip synch function is great. 0 to 250 milliseconds at 1 ms intervals. Excellent.

Cheers

Guys, an update on the Onkyo TX-SR803. Yesterday I installed and ran for the first time. Sounds great, but some items to watch.
1. HDMI will only carry HDMI (or DVI) input material. Any other source (eg Component) must be output through component. Composite and S-Video will be transcoded to component. So you still need at least 2 connections if you have more than 2 pieces of equipment to attach to the receiver.
2. No banana plugs. This was a real disappointment after using a Denon for the last few years. You have to take off your banana plugs and slip the bare wire into tiny slots and tighten up the terminal.
3. The lip synch function is great. 0 to 250 milliseconds at 1 ms intervals. Excellent.

Cheers
Thanks for the info. Just wanted to note that the pics at onkyousa.com definitely show 5-way binding posts and i can't imagine them selling a receiver in this price range without them. Sometimes they have little caps that you have to pull off before you can insert banana plugs.

No banana plugs? odd.

Just a tad bit larger than OnkyoUSA pics:
http://www.gspr.com/onkyo/_ok_photolib_fr.html

I will check the binding posts again tonight to see if the banana plugs will fit. In the owners manual it doesn't talk about banana plugs either.

The JVC RX-D702B receiver is now available at the WALMART web site. This is not a fact necessarily in JVC's favor but, the good news is... the price is competitive, and you can order it, keep it for up to 90 days and then return it to the nearest store..if you're not happy.

Hello people,

I searched the forum, but could not find the answers to these questions:

1. Can the JVC RX-D702B handle 4-ohm speakers?
2. Does the JVC RX-D702B show its on-screen display (OSD) via the HDMI output at all resolutions? (I noticed some receivers, such as Pioneer and Sony will output OSD via HDMI but only at resolutions like 480i.)

Thank you. Everybody here rocks.

gcbrink

Looking forward to reading your review of the unit.
Will you be using the receiver to upconvert? What Display will you be using?

I'll be using it with a JVC HD-61Z886 and a Panasonic DVD-S77S DVD Player. I won't be getting those for another 1-2 weeks. I ordered the receiver right away, the price was good. I'll post a report when I have everything hooked up. I'm sure we'll see some other reviews earlier than that.

I'll be using it with a JVC HD-61Z886 and a Panasonic DVD-S77S DVD Player. I won't be getting those for another 1-2 weeks. I ordered the receiver right away, the price was good. I'll post a report when I have everything hooked up. I'm sure we'll see some other reviews earlier than that.

Since the specifications for the S77S indicate over 500 Lines of Horizontal Resolution I would bet you get the best picture allowing the JVC HD-61Z886 to Up-Convert the 480P from your DVD Player.

Alternative you could see how the RX-D702B does with 480P to 720P comparing the 61Z886’s ability to handle the 480p to 720p scaling.

Hopefully the S77S does a good job at detecting 3:2 pulldown from Film Source, as it does not appear as though there is a way to output the raw DVD’s 480I over HDMI which would allow for 3:2 Pull Down detection from your 61Z886.

Since you will have your JVC RX-D702B before your other toys you could give it a good work out on the audio side of things. I am interested in how the ‘Feedback’ Digital Amplifier sounds as compared to a traditional high current receiver.

Are you replacing another receiver with the JVC? What led you to try the Digital Amplifier over a traditional High Current amplifier?

Thanks for the tips. I can't say I know a whole lot about these things so I appreciate the info. Right now I have an older Pioneer 5.1. I'm finishing a recroom, hence the new TV/receiver/DVD player. I thought I'd try a digital receiver, the price is good and I wanted 2 HDMI inputs.

RX-D702B Review :

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=895&page_number=1

According to the review The RX-D702B's Faroudja DCDi processing is restricted to Analog Video Inputs only, when video is input via HDMi the signal is passed through to the output un-processed.

So if your DVD player will be connected via HDMI the only up-conversion processing capability will be that of the DVD Player or the JVC Display’s internal processor.

On screen menus must be output as component, composite, or S-video.
Since the RX-D702B has 4 composite/S-video inputs with 3 outputs I wonder if looping one of the four S-Video Outputs into one of the three available inputs would produce an onscreen HDMI connected display?

I edited my previous post to remove references to 1080p as I forgot that the JVC HD-61Z886 is a 720p max resolution display. The JVC DesignerPro Series **FH96 1080p models are due out this week I believe.

If you would be interested in understanding more about the differences and/or Benefits/Disadvantages of Progressive & Interlaced video I found the information at the following link easier than most to comprehend. Keep in mind though that this particular article was written when most HDTV’s didn’t have as good of an internal Video Processing capability as your JVC will.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

Great info thanks. I come from the 8 track generation so keeping up to date isn't always easy. :cool:

I would also like to have downconversion on these units, for when I want to use my old big screen tv in lighted conditions.

I understand that from the Denon range only the 5805 has down conversion from component, and only from analog interlaced (480i) sources.

The manaul of the DFR9000 says that all video inputs are recordable via the SVideo REC OUT, but I find that hard to believe (but would be great if true). Can someone with one of these units tell me if the HDMI and/or component video inputs can be viewed via the SVideo (REC OUT)?

Yamaha 2600
Pioneer Elite 72
Pioneer Elite 74
Denon 3806

I have read through this post and am confused as to which receivers actually do scaling vs up conversion. As described in this thread, there is a big difference. I believe they all do up conversion, not so sure on the scaling.

Question 1: Which of the above does true scaling?

Question 2: HDMI sometimes has problems playing copied copyrighted data. Has anyone had issues playing backup DVD's through these receiver's HDMI ports?

thanks,

Gary

The only one of those that offers scaling, is the RX-V2600. And just like any other AVR that offers scaling, it will be limited. In that it will not offer the same kind of scaling features like that of a dedicated outboard video scaler. There is just no way that a $1000 -$1500 AVR is going to have the same kind of scaling capabilities and features that a separate $2000 video processer/scaler does.

I know that this is slightly off the thread, but to continue with the scaling question and hoping this will benefit others as well here goes:

Is there a way to determine what would be scaled and what wouldn't? Meaning if the signal is already digital (DVI or HDMI) would the signal just pass through?

Looking to hookup:

a generic HTPC with DVI out
a Sony 995 400 disk changer with HDMI output
a Motorola HDTV box with DVI out
playstation 2 / Xbox component out
HIFI standard VCR with composite out

Connecting to Optoma H78 with DVI input

thanks,

gary

According to someone that now has one, it only scales inputs of analog sources, and not any HDMI sources.
So any HDMI sources if they are allready upscaled or are in HD, would just be passed through, with no scaling added.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6513140&&#post6513140

"One thing I might add is that the 2600 does not upscale HDMI input to HDMI output. It will only upscale an analog signal that has NOT already been upscaled. As an example, it won't upscale a digital signal from an upscaling DVD player that is already sending an upscaled signal."

I downloaded and read the manual for the Denon 4306, recently. According to the manual, the 4306 has the following:

3 HDMI inputs.
Transcode all analog inputs to HDMI.
Scaling of all analog inputs (to 480p/576p, 720p, 1080i) and output to HDMI or Component, with aspect control (16:9, 4:3).
Option to turn off scaling ("through mode").
HDMI inputs are not scaled. HDMI inputs are passed through.


So, the list, for the Denon 4306, "hdmi" should be changed to "3", and "video" should be "ST" (or "SC" - I'm not sure what the difference is between "T" and "C").

I have preordered the 4306 from Crutchfield. When it arrives (sometime in December, barring delays), I can confirm.

Is there a way to determine what would be scaled and what wouldn't? Meaning if the signal is already digital (DVI or HDMI) would the signal just pass through?

As mentioned above, it seems the only scaling receiver is the Yamaha.

You may have conversion and scaling confused. Maybe I do, but here's how I understand it.

Let's say you have a TV with a native resolution of 720p and you want to play a DVD which is output at 480i. What the Yamaha can do is "upscale" that 480i DVD signal to 720p and then sent it to the TV at the TV's native resolution of 720p.

Now your 720p TV also has a scaler built in, so whether the Yamaha scaler is better then your TV's scaler would depend on the quality of the units involved.

"Conversion" is simple taking an analogue signal and converting it to digital so it can flow down a DVI or HDMI cable.

Scaling and Converting are two different animals BUT can (I presume) be done at the same time also with this Yamaha 2600.

Okay, so I think I got this diagnosed from a noob's perspective (man, you guys are smart):

1) HDMI is a digital connection intended for use with digital tvs (LCD and plasmas).
2) DVI is a similar connection to HDMI as it is also for digital video, but HDMI has the capability to also carry audio and more bandwith than DVI.
3) A person like myself without a digital TV (I got a Sony 57" XBR rear projection) that is buying an AVR currently is better off not spending the extra $300 for an AVR w/ HDMI now. Instead it is likely better to save that money, waiting until I get a digital TV (which is YEARS off as I do not have the coin, and I like the Sony) -- but plan on buying a new AVR when I do eventually get the new TV, as I will want to mate it via HDMI (and HDMI will likely be on current revision of HDMI applicable to the new tv).

Feel free to make corrections at will...

I am confused as to which of these three, since they are all in the general price range, would be the better unit: The JVC 702b, Onkyo 803 or the Pioneer Elite 47? When I speak of better choice, I don't only mean picture, but also sound? Thanks for any input

Guys, an update on the Onkyo TX-SR803. Yesterday I installed and ran for the first time. Sounds great, but some items to watch.
1. HDMI will only carry HDMI (or DVI) input material. Any other source (eg Component) must be output through component. Composite and S-Video will be transcoded to component. So you still need at least 2 connections if you have more than 2 pieces of equipment to attach to the receiver.
2. No banana plugs. This was a real disappointment after using a Denon for the last few years. You have to take off your banana plugs and slip the bare wire into tiny slots and tighten up the terminal.
3. The lip synch function is great. 0 to 250 milliseconds at 1 ms intervals. Excellent.

Cheers
Is the lip sync a global setting, or can it be set by input?

I downloaded and read the manual for the Denon 4306, recently. According to the manual, the 4306 has the following:

3 HDMI inputs.
Transcode all analog inputs to HDMI.
Scaling of all analog inputs (to 480p/576p, 720p, 1080i) and output to HDMI or Component, with aspect control (16:9, 4:3).
Option to turn off scaling ("through mode").
HDMI inputs are not scaled. HDMI inputs are passed through.


So, the list, for the Denon 4306, "hdmi" should be changed to "3", and "video" should be "ST" (or "SC" - I'm not sure what the difference is between "T" and "C").

I have preordered the 4306 from Crutchfield. When it arrives (sometime in December, barring delays), I can confirm.
Thanks for the update. I'm not sure of the difference between scaling and transcoding either, just posted input (on transcoding) passed on by others.

Okay, so I think I got this diagnosed from a noob's perspective (man, you guys are smart):

1) HDMI is a digital connection intended for use with digital tvs (LCD and plasmas).
2) DVI is a similar connection to HDMI as it is also for digital video, but HDMI has the capability to also carry audio and more bandwith than DVI.
3) A person like myself without a digital TV (I got a Sony 57" XBR rear projection) that is buying an AVR currently is better off not spending the extra $300 for an AVR w/ HDMI now. Instead it is likely better to save that money, waiting until I get a digital TV (which is YEARS off as I do not have the coin, and I like the Sony) -- but plan on buying a new AVR when I do eventually get the new TV, as I will want to mate it via HDMI (and HDMI will likely be on current revision of HDMI applicable to the new tv).

Feel free to make corrections at will...

01GT

I think you have as good a grasp of the situation as I do.

There is all this talk about waiting for supsequent versionsof HDMI (the current is 1.1). The problem with this concept is that it doesn't matter how new, or how up to date or expensive your HDMI switching receiver is, because the unit that decides if an HDMI signal is going to pass through, is the originating unit, your set top box or satelitte box. NOT YOUR RECEIVER

If the powers at be that make decoder boxes, and cable boxes, and those people that run satellite and cable distribution decide not to upgrade your system remotely via a firmware upgrade, it doesn't matter how impressive your home theatre is, NO HDMI will pass to your TV through your HDMI switching receiver.

01GT

I think you have as good a grasp of the situation as I do.

There is all this talk about waiting for supsequent versionsof HDMI (the current is 1.1). The problem with this concept is that it doesn't matter how new, or how up to date or expensive your HDMI switching receiver is, because the unit that decides if an HDMI signal is going to pass through, is the originating unit, your set top box or satelitte box. NOT YOUR RECEIVER

If the powers at be that make decoder boxes, and cable boxes, and those people that run satellite and cable distribution decide not to upgrade your system remotely via a firmware upgrade, it doesn't matter how impressive your home theatre is, NO HDMI will pass to your TV through your HDMI switching receiver.

Good point lexx,

I also have arrived at a similar crossroad in my decision process regarding the importance of HDMI on/through a receiver. I have come to the conclusion that there is no clear benefit (Other than up-converting analog video) of running video through a receiver before connecting to a HD TV. If you can get a HDTV that has a minimum of two DVI or HDMI inputs along with Digital Audio Output you should be able to accommodate the important video devices (Cable/Sat + BluRay +Component DVD or Cable/Sat +HD-DVD) without needing a HDMI switching device/receiver.

I was hoping that, even if I chose not to use the HDMI switching, that the 702b Digital Amplifier/Size/ Temperature advantages might be worth the purchase. It does not appear that many are talking about how well the unit is performing in these areas though, so I have decided to trust traditional receivers and have now narrowed it down to a replacement Sherwood Newcastle R-865, a Rotel 1056/67 or an Outlaw 1070.
More expensive per watt and much heavier than the JVC 702B but less likely to be replaced in the short/long run.

This is a great thread.I ma trying to learn.My equipment is older.I have a kenwood pre-amp proceser and a 6 channel amp.I just ordered a new pioneer pdp1600hd plasma and it will be here in a few days.My current pre-amp only has s video and composite monitor out.I have an older dvd,lazer disk player and a vcr all with the same output problem.I will also have digital cable or satellite.Is there a pre-amp that i can buy that will allow me to hook this stuff up?The new plasma has 2 composite and 1 hdmi.Can you guys give me some advise on how i should hook this up and what equipment you might recommend for me.Thanks

This is a great thread.I ma trying to learn.My equipment is older.I have a kenwood pre-amp proceser and a 6 channel amp.I just ordered a new pioneer pdp1600hd plasma and it will be here in a few days.My current pre-amp only has s video and composite monitor out.I have an older dvd,lazer disk player and a vcr all with the same output problem.I will also have digital cable or satellite.Is there a pre-amp that i can buy that will allow me to hook this stuff up?The new plasma has 2 composite and 1 hdmi.Can you guys give me some advise on how i should hook this up and what equipment you might recommend for me.Thanks

Your Pioneer PDP 6100 Plasma TV Has:
1x HDMI (19 pin HDMI Type A) - Rear,

1 x HD component video / RGB input (BNC x 5) - Rear
1 x Component video input (RCA phono x 3) - Rear,

1 x S-Video input (4 pin mini-DIN) - Rear,

1 x Composite video input (BNC) - Rear,
1 x Composite video input (RCA phono) - Rear,

3 x Audio line-in (RCA phono x 2) - Rear,

1 x VGA input (15 pin HD D-Sub (HD-15),
1 x Serial (9 pin D-Sub) - Rear

Possible solutions:
Outlaw Audio 1070 Surround Receiver List $899
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/1070.html
Use Pre-Amp Outputs to your Kenwood 6 Channel Amp or dump existing Ampif the 1070 sounds better.
Switching / Transcoding between composite, S-Video and Component Video Inputs
3 HD Component Video Inputs, 1 Component output
2 DVI Inputs 1 DVI Output
5 Composite

Outlaw Audio 990 Pre/Pro List $1099
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990.html
Switching / Transcoding between composite, S-Video and Component Video Inputs
3 HD Component Video Inputs, 1 Component output
2 DVI Inputs 1 DVI Output
5 Composite

Sherwood Newcastle P-965 Pre/Pro List $1499
http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_p965.html#
Switching / Transcoding between composite, S-Video and Component Video Inputs
3 Component Video Inputs, 1 Component output
5 composite

The Rotel RSP-1068 Pre/Pro List $1700
http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rsp1068.htm
Switching / Transcoding for:
5 composite
5 S-Video,
3 component


Older DVD Player Rec. Interface: Component else S-Video Via PrePro
Older Laser Disc Player Rec. Interface: Component else S-Video Via PrePro
Cable/Satelite Rec. Interface: HDMI Directly connected to plasma

All the above solutions would convert and switch your older video connections to connect to your Pioneer PDP 6100 via the single RCA Component input.

When HD Players come out I am uncertain how best to accommodate/switch the 1080I output along with your Cable/Sat HDMI (other than investigating a PrePro with HDMI Switching) you could use HDMI to DVI adapters in the event you choose a PrePro with DVI Switching like the Outlaw suggestions given above, and switch the two 1080i sources through the DVI inputs & outputs of either the 1070 receiver or the 990 PrePro. The only challenge with this may be accommodating two potentially different resolutions through the Plasma's single HDMI port as briefly looking at the 6100HD User Manual it appears to require a pre-defined resolution for the single HDMI Port.

I would wait before making a decision on a new PrePro until you have had time to hook up and program the 6100HD Plasma. You could set it up for a 1080i input resolution and then change your Sat/CableTV box to 720P and see if the Plasma automatically changes resolution. Another thing to look for is the ability to have two separately saved color calibration settings for the single HDMI port connection. This will allow you to view HD-DVD or Bluray at a unique saved calibration and then change to another saved calibration for your Sat/CableTV.

Hey guys....my first post here but ive been lurking for awhile.

Ive got a theater about ready to be built and my final piece that I need to grab is the reciever. Im torn between the Denon 3806 and the Yamaha Axv 2600...im seeing both on Ebay for about $899 shipped and really cant beat that deal but im leary about buying on Ebay due to lack of Warranty etc.

Anyone bought one of these onEbay with success? The sellers all say factory sealed etc but im curious if that legit, some go as far as allowing C.O.D...to save $400 on one of these great recievers is it worth it?

Am I posting this in the wrong place?

:eek:

Take a look at the Pioneer Elite 72 and 74. They straddle either side of those two units in price, and offer more for the money imo.

Take a look at the Pioneer Elite 72 and 74. They straddle either side of those two units in price, and offer more for the money imo.

I listened to the Pioneer next to these 2 other recievers at 3 different locations just to be sure and to my ear none of the Pioneers held a candle sound wise.

I listened to the Pioneer next to these 2 other recievers at 3 different locations just to be sure and to my ear none of the Pioneers held a candle sound wise.

So, how were the Pioneer units inferior in sound quality? What differences did you notice?

So, how were the Pioneer units inferior in sound quality? What differences did you notice?


Well with everything being identical, i think i was -20, stereo, speakers were always the same the Pioneer just seemed noticably less defined when it came to music and just did'nt have as much detail when it came to movies. Probably nothing most people would notice but im a nerd and I sat there going back and forth for upwards of an hour :)

Hello and thanks for your time..........

I am in the mode to purchase a receiver that does HDMI switching..., but I have run into what appears to be a serious problem.

Today I was speaking to one of the regional service reps for Panasonic that was telling me about the problems he is hearing about with folks trying to feed an HDMI display from an HDMI source (in this case an HDTivo) through a Denon 3806 HDMI switching receiver. He said the person reporting the problem could feed his Tivo directly to the display with no issues... however the minute he inserted the Denon in the chain he could not get an image to the display.

This evening I was over at my brothers house who has the new Yamaha RX-V2600 HDMI switching receiver... he reported exactly the same issue with the signal coming from his Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD-DVR!

Then when doing some research on the JVC RX-D702 HDMI switching receiver I read reports of exactly the same results on the JVC as was being exhibited by both the Denon and the Yamaha.

Okay what the blue blazes is going on here...?? Is this Hollywood copy protection gone wild?

The only thing I can see is that the HDMI switching receivers are not passing along the HDCP handshake such that the source knows that the display is HDCP compliant and that they can all play nice together!

So if this is the case......... is there a way to solve this problem ?

If not, why in the heck bother to buy an HDMI switching receiver when it will not work with the HDMI equipped HD sources that you want to switch????

I would sure like some further light and knowledge on this one!!!!

Well with everything being identical, i think i was -20, stereo, speakers were always the same the Pioneer just seemed noticably less defined when it came to music and just did'nt have as much detail when it came to movies. Probably nothing most people would notice but im a nerd and I sat there going back and forth for upwards of an hour :)

Out of the box, I was very underwhelmed with the 74. After running the MCACC auto-EQ, I was blown away (only thing I had to change was upping the sub gain).

[If not, why in the heck bother to buy an HDMI switching receiver when it will not work with the HDMI equipped HD sources that you want to switch????

I would sure like some further light and knowledge on this one!!!![/QUOTE]

One reason didn't know on 10/3 HDMI inputs,outputs don't work with HD cable boxes! Early ADOPTER problem
Mark

Just to keep it fair I went to Showcase at lunch today and side by sided the Denon 3806, Pinoeer 74 and Yamaha 2600....the Pioneer was not even in the same playing field.

The Yamaha shined in my ears for music and Movies but I think the Denon had the edge for just movies.

Just had to try it again to keep it fair and without a doubt, unless your an iPod user I cant see any reason to go Pioneer with these 2 other offerings in the same price point.

Has anybody used the JVC 702B to upgrade analog signals? For example, an older DVD player that doesn't have HDMI support and instead is going through component cables. Also, has anybody tried the 702B for HDMI video output to an HDMI input projector (the problem HiHo SteveO mentioned scared the crap out of me)!

Also, has anybody tried the 702B for HDMI video output to an HDMI input projector (the problem HiHo SteveO mentioned scared the crap out of me)!

You think that is bad....... I kinda watered it down... check out the reviews from a number of 702 owners...

http://reviews.cnet.com/JVC_RX_D702/4505-6466_7-31473551.html

They are not all bad... the unit has some really good points... especially the price point! However, there do seem to be some issues... and what bothers me the most is JVC's apparent lack of concern, and a definite lack of response! :o

Just to keep it fair I went to Showcase at lunch today and side by sided the Denon 3806, Pinoeer 74 and Yamaha 2600....the Pioneer was not even in the same playing field.


I would assume you level matched , checked all the crossover settings, used the same speakers, checked all the connections, checked speaker distances, defeated all the eq functions, etc?

I would assume you level matched , checked all the crossover settings, used the same speakers, checked all the connections, checked speaker distances, defeated all the eq functions, etc?


Obviously. Hence the reason I did this ina controlled setting with the exact same setups and settings. Trust me ive got nothing against Pioneer at all, all im saying is that for the $$$ it does not compare when it comes to quality of sound.

Anyone have any updates? I just added the Denon 2807.

Can someone explain to me how exactly HD-DTS/DD+ will be decoded ?

How exactly a receiver will benefit from the lossless sound format ?

Anyone have any updates? I just added the Denon 2807.

It seems like with CES under way we should be seeing a bunch of new stuff announced, right? Where is it all?

Let me guess. Next gen of receivers will support HD-DVD/BR. That includes HD audio and therefore, requires HDMI 1.3 chips, which are not available yet.

I have not been keeping up on this for a while... so this could be old news..., but the 4306 has 3 HDMI in's... I had thought that would only make it down to the 4806.

Don't know if anyone's included the HK AVR740 yet, although I did do some cursory searches in this thread and didn't come up with matches (surprised M Code didn't mention it already)...I believe it's got 2 HDMI 1.1 ports, an USB port, EZset/EQII (for auto level and room EQ, 2-channel sub capability), etc. It's most likely the successor to the AVR7300. Posts on other threads have hinted/rumored that HK's upcoming successors to their AVR435 and AVR635 will have HDMI as well; I haven't seen any offical announcement yet. Anyway, I'm sure most readers of this site will know where to go to get more info about all of the above.

Thanks veloroad - I've added the HK to my list.
HiHoStevo - yep, 3 hdmi inputs.

Let me guess. Next gen of receivers will support HD-DVD/BR. That includes HD audio and therefore, requires HDMI 1.3 chips, which are not available yet.

For once (ok, the tenth time) and for ALL, the high res audio of Blue-ray/hD-dvd will be converted to pcm in the PLAYER and ALL SS receivers with ANY kind of digital in will be capable of playback.

Agree, HD-DVD players will output DD+ to current receivers via 8 discrete channels/cables. That's not doing DD+ via HDMI (not that I care.) So the point - nothing new.

I have not been keeping up on this for a while... so this could be old news..., but the 4306 has 3 HDMI in's... I had thought that would only make it down to the 4806.

Yes, but at the expense of the original firewire ports.

I have a Sceptre 37" LCD TV that can accept 1920x1080p and display it natively, bit-for-bit, unscaled with no overscan, when driven by my HTPC (a Mac). The result is quite spectacular. I would like to insert an HDMI switching reciever into the component mix so that I can have other DVI/HDMI devices attached to the TV. Question: are there any HDMI switching receivers that are known to pass unfettered and unaltered a 1080p DVI (non-HDCP) signal from a PC? I don't care about price. I just want to know if there are any out there at all that can do this.

I have a Sceptre 37" LCD TV that can accept 1920x1080p and display it natively, bit-for-bit, unscaled with no overscan, when driven by my HTPC (a Mac). The result is quite spectacular. I would like to insert an HDMI switching reciever into the component mix so that I can have other DVI/HDMI devices attached to the TV. Question: are there any HDMI switching receivers that are known to pass unfettered and unaltered a 1080p DVI (non-HDCP) signal from a PC? I don't care about price. I just want to know if there are any out there at all that can do this.

I may be wrong on this, please correct me if that's the case, but I am of the understanding that if you go hdmi from source and out on hdmi to display, the receiver doesnt change/touch anything... True hdmi, from source to display, is just bridged through... Most of these av receivers can upconvert analog(s-video, component, composite) to hdmi, and or can scale(480i to 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i)..

That is what interests me.... My cable company HD box just has component outs, no hdmi(Ill call and harass, but I dont have high hopes for them, and plan to switch to DirectTV HD-DVR in 3-6 months anyway). A while back I bought a tivo(w lifetime subscription), and it only does component out... My old(GASP) VHS, well who knows, I think composite, if I am lucky.... etc etc etc... If I go with the yamaha rx-v2600 I can upconvert and try scaling the picture..... Anyways, I want a decent way to upconvert/scale stuff up to hdmi for my projector... ONE CABLE PLEASE!!!!

Best bet for you is to buy one from a BestBuy etc store to verify your results on the passthrough... If you dont like the results, take it back!

Yamaha HTR 5990 seems to have same capabilities as rx-v2600, except it is 140 watts x 7 channels (130W x 7 for rx-v2600)... little uglier, 19 surround programs(22 surround programs for rx-v2600)... $1099.00 msrp($1399.00 for rx-v2600)..

Otherwise on paper it looks the same, to my eyes at least.. still scales and upconverts to hdmi... 2 hdmi in - 1 hdmi out.. someone in another thread pointed out a yamaha document that stated the HTR line is sold by the big stores(best buy, etc), and the RX-V series is sold by the specialty stores.. In that document they stated that the front of the unit was pretty much the only difference(well in this case you get more watts p/channel in the HTR series too).

I think it is a nice value for a pre-amp setup or in my case a decent setup until I can add an amp later...

I may be wrong on this, please correct me if that's the case, but I am of the understanding that if you go hdmi from source and out on hdmi to display, the receiver doesnt change/touch anything... True hdmi, from source to display, is just bridged through... Most of these av receivers can upconvert analog(s-video, component, composite) to hdmi, and or can scale(480i to 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i)..

That is what interests me.... My cable company HD box just has component outs, no hdmi(Ill call and harass, but I dont have high hopes for them, and plan to switch to DirectTV HD-DVR in 3-6 months anyway). A while back I bought a tivo(w lifetime subscription), and it only does component out... My old(GASP) VHS, well who knows, I think composite, if I am lucky.... etc etc etc... If I go with the yamaha rx-v2600 I can upconvert and try scaling the picture..... Anyways, I want a decent way to upconvert/scale stuff up to hdmi for my projector... ONE CABLE PLEASE!!!!

Best bet for you is to buy one from a BestBuy etc store to verify your results on the passthrough... If you dont like the results, take it back!

Thanks for the reply. I did try a JVC HDMI switching receiver and already returned it because it was not able to pass non-HDCP, 1080p from my Mac to my Sceptre TV. I suppose I could try another brand and just return it again if it doesn't work. I was hoping I would find someone, somewhere who is doing what I am trying to do and make a specific receiver recommendation.

I hope to avoid all these issues by waiting until all equipment becomes certified and we get up to a somewhat settled version of HDMI.

See my signature below.

I hope this post is being read by someone knowledgable out there.

What is the difference between hooking up two digital devices such as an STB and a dvd player (or PS3 but its the same) directly to an HDTV and hooking them up to an HDMI switching receiver? To make the references easier here are the set-ups.

Set-up 1: The STB and dvd player are connected to an HDMI receiver, and the receiver is connected to the HDTV with an HDMI cable.

Set-up 2: The STB and dvd player are connected directly to an HDTV with HDMI cables, and they are also connected to a standard A/V receiver with two optical/coaxial audio cables.

Set-up 1 uses only 3 cables and Set-up 2 uses 4. I don't know if it is cheaper for 2 HDMI and 2 optical or 3 HDMI but I don't care about that. My main question is, Is the experience different between the 2 set-ups or are they too close to tell? A problem with Set-up 1 is the inability to save calibration settings for each device If your tv has settings for each individual input because the 2 devices are switched at the receiver. HDMI switchers are good if your tv only has one HDMI input. My TV has 2 HDMI inputs but their picture settings are not per input so these two things do not concern me. Another problem with Set-up 1 is many people have had problems with STBs connected to HDMI switching receivers. Wasn't that the whole point of HDCP? Who allowed this to happen? :mad: Some will argue HDMI receivers are better for the de-interlacing capability, but I have also heard of noticeable gain problems when HDMI signals are passed through receivers. Is the added cost justified, within the next few months, if you compare a quality receiver to another that has HDMI switching. I expect HDMI switching to eventually be pretty standard at the $500 price point.
So, any thoughts? :)

FuturePannyOwner,
someone can correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that most of the time hdmi in from a source device to a display device is just passed through on an hdmi receiver. There is no scaling taking place. Heck, in a lot of cases the receivers scaler(if it has one), isn't as high of quality as the source devices scaler(dvd player/etc). So you wouldnt want the receiver to scale your picture anyway.

The beauty of a lot of these hdmi receivers is the ability to take in s-video, composite, component, etc and convert it to hdmi. In some receivers you also can scale the component/s-video/composite signals up to 480p/720p/1080i/etc and also convert it to hdmi...

Another thought is that since audio can be carried on hdmi, you get the benefit of one cable from your source device providing both audio and video through your receiver. Course there is supposedly issues with dvd-audio and sacd audio not transmitting correctly via hdmi, but that is in a bunch of other threads, and I am not sure that is still true as of hdmi 1.2.. regardless there is also workarounds(an extra cable).

The issues with hdcp/hdmi currently, is that a lot of manufacturers are not using these standards correctly.. so an hdmi cable box source device might, or might not work with an hdmi receiver. Most of the PVR's(tivo/etc) do not currently work via hdmi, but it is not HDMI/HDCP's fault, it is the manufacturers of the hdmi receivers/etc that are not allowing PVR's to work... There doesnt seem to be these issues when converting component/composite/s-video to hdmi, but therein comes with it's own problem(analog vs digital signals).

In my case, I have a lot of component/composite cable devices, and want an hdmi receiver so I only need one cable to my projector. I purchased a lower priced hdmi capable receiver with both a converter and a scaler in it. I will wait the 1-2 years for HDMI to work the kinks out.... I also havent upgraded my receiver in forever, so needed something with a lot of bells and whistles...

In your case, if you dont have any older devices(component/composite/etc), and you dont need a new receiver, and or you have enough hdmi/etc ports on your tv, I dont see a reason why you would need an hdmi receiver. Other than possibly reducing the number of cable runs, and those cables are prolly a lot cheaper than a new receiver.. hehe

Carl, why don't you have the Yamaha HTR-5990 listed? The specs are identical to the RXV-1600 and MSRP is $100 less.

I know at least one difference is 20 watts per channel. I thought there were a couple other differences too.

Carl, why don't you have the Yamaha HTR-5990 listed? The specs are identical to the RXV-1600 and MSRP is $100 less.
Added!

Philips DFR 9000 MSRP is about $975 (street price about $730)

From what I'm hearing, the Yamaha RXV2600 is THE receiver to buy when taking into account sound quality and HDMI switching. Is it definitely better than the comparitively priced Pioneer VSX-72TXV, the Denon AVR-3806, or comparitive Harman Kardon models?

Question for Bell Expressvu customers with the new HD-PVR set top box:

Has anyone successfully been able to pass HDMI through a receiver to a TV using that box? If it ISN'T possible than I probably won't even bother with an HDMI switching model. The reason I really want it is to have just one cable going to my TV as it (and my speakers) will all be wall mounted in my new house with the wires going behind the walls. I also got sick of having to select DVD on my receiver AND on my TV each time I want to switch sources. Being able to hit just one button on my remote to switch video and audio sources simultaneously is a major plus for me.

So? Should I be getting a 2600? Or can someone suggest something even better?

Last question: Are there ANY PC video cards that have an HDMI out connector to maximize the video bandwidth? I've only seen DVI so far. An HDMI equipped video card would be amazing for a home theater PC....

OK... sorry.... have more questions:

If I pass a 1080p signal through my receiver will it still go out to my TV at 1080p or will it get down converted to 1080i?

Also, would the 2600 be (for now) overkill for my Energy Take 5.2 speakers? I know I'll eventually upgrade my speakers once I do enough research but will I notice a significant difference with the 2600 over my current Onkyo TX-SR501?

OK.....enough with the questions (for now...)

Just answered one of my questions! Cool!

Do a search for "HDMI video card" on Google and look at the third result. Sapphire has just announced the very first HDMI video card!

OK... sorry.... have more questions:
Why be sorry? The only bad questions are the ones that don't get asked

If I pass a 1080p signal through my receiver will it still go out to my TV at 1080p or will it get down converted to 1080i?
Nope.
It will not pass through 1080p signal - at least acording to the discussion over at Audioholics (Here is a link (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=155912#post155912) to the thread were real discussion begins - look at message 47.)

Thanks for the tip ;)

Are there ANY receivers that will pass on 1080p at this point under $2000 or so?

This was a great thread, has everyone given up on it?

I have still not taken the plunge because there is nothing on the market yet that suits my current requirements and plans for next 6 months.

I am probably going to return to my original plan to get a DVDO VP30 to solve my video switching problems, but that still leaves me with 2 issues:-

1) I still need an AV Amp/Receiver/processor with 2 HDMI outputs (or 1xDVI and 1xHDMI). I could user a third box (HDMI splitter) but I'd really like to avoid that.

2) Even if I find what i need in (1), it still leaves a possible problem with HDCP protected HDMI audio inputs. Can someone please tell me if any of these HDMI AV Receivers output HDCP protected HDMI audio inputs via the speakers, or only pass it through to the HDMI output?

3) If they do output the audio via the speakers, is it the full audio input signal, or does it get downgraded to something awful like stereo?

New Pioneer Elite 84's coming out now. 4xHDMI(1.2a) and video upscaling.

Sounds good, needs to be added to the list.

Found any reviews online?

Still trying to find out what each of these devices do with digital audio, when they do the "1080p pass-through"?
Does it come out of the speakers connected to the amp
is it only passed through
does it go to both?

Is the answer different when the input is HDCP protected?

I think these are very important questions. Everyone is trying to setup their systems to work well with 1080p all the way through (now and in the future), but if it goes staight through these new receiver/amps without making it to your expensive 5.7 or 7.1 speakers, they will be useless if you have any plans to use 1080p.

I am not sure...., but I don't think anyone can answer your question at this point...

As far as I know the only 1080p source are the new Blu-Ray players and apparently they are more buggy than the HD-DVD players! My guess is we really won't have an answer until next year some time... I know that is not real helpful, but the industry seems to be pretty disjointed right now with this conversion to HDMI.

We have had HDMI available for quite a few months, but still it is hard to find components that actually work together as they should... case in point...

I have 3 HDMI equipped sources... a Sony 995v 400disc upconverting multi-changer, an HD-Tivo, and a Toshiba HD-DVD player. These are paired with a Denon 2807 AV-receiver with two HDMI inputs (up until now this has been one of the newest HDMI equipped av-receivers... so I would have thought it would have the most up to date implementation of HDMI). You would think HDMI had been available long enough that all of them could play nice together however... with the HD-Tivo I get no sound... great picture, but no sound. With the HD-DVD player I get the menu on-screen over HDMI, but the unit crashes every time I load an HD-DVD.... however after applying all of the available updates the player would play an SD-DVD over HDMI. The Sony is the only one of the three that plays just fine over HDMI with no apparent issues. I have sent the Toshiba back in, so "perhaps" when it is returned it will "make-nice" with the Denon... however it all seems quite hit or miss at the present time.......... :-( ........ and to make it worse when you call the tech support department for ANY of the manufacturers all they do is claim the the problem belongs to the "other guy!" There is a well documented problem with the Scientific Atlanta Cable boxes which seems have given license to all the rest of the manufactures to claim the problem lies with the other guy... Denon blames Toshiba or Tivo... Toshiba and Tivo blame Denon...., but here we sit with components that do not function as they should!

These Hollyrock types foisted this #$#$ HDMI upon us... they should be required to make the D*&^ thing work!

I too am looking that the new Pioneer 84 to see if it might help cure my ills........

Thanks for the input Stevo, sounds like a nightmare, and yours is not the first post I have read with comments like that.

I am very concerened, especially since my PJ has DVI not hdmi, and I'm sure that is likely to just make matters worse.

Guess waiting is the way to go, but I have been waiting over a year already to upgrade my AV amp ot an new amp or amp/processor combo. The selector knob works when it feels like it and the power button has folded paper holding it in place!

Finally, more morsels for us to nibble! My cousin, who is a Yamaha enthusiast, received a bulk e-mail letting him know that more info was available at Yammi's website regarding the new and improved RX-V2700, boasting of course an improved HDMI interface, with 1080p pass-thru...

I need help deciding which direction to take with my audio system. Since 1996 I have been running an old Sony Pro-Logic (yep not even 5.1) Receiver with Paradigm 7se Mk3 in the front and a pair Paradigm Atoms in the rear. I have no center channel and no sub.

Now my old Sony receiver has died and I need to replace it. I’m looking for something less than $500.00 with HDMI. I still like my Paradigms and really see no need to replace them. I will probably add a Paradigm Center Channel and sub at some point, but for now I’m just looking for a receiver. Is there anything available now or on the horizon (say the next 6-9 months) that will suit my needs? Budget is an issue so the cheaper the better, I’m not a true audiophile; I just want a receiver that has HDMI and does not sound like total ass. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

I need help deciding which direction to take with my audio system. Since 1996 I have been running an old Sony Pro-Logic (yep not even 5.1) Receiver with Paradigm 7se Mk3 in the front and a pair Paradigm Atoms in the rear. I have no center channel and no sub.

Now my old Sony receiver has died and I need to replace it. I’m looking for something less than $500.00 with HDMI. I still like my Paradigms and really see no need to replace them. I will probably add a Paradigm Center Channel and sub at some point, but for now I’m just looking for a receiver. Is there anything available now or on the horizon (say the next 6-9 months) that will suit my needs? Budget is an issue so the cheaper the better, I’m not a true audiophile; I just want a receiver that has HDMI and does not sound like total ass. Any recommendations would be appreciated.


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7697539&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03031&id=1138084389963

Has anyone added the Denon 4806CI? that has 1080P HDMI switching.
I was looking at Marantz SR-9600, but I wanted the latest HDMI version 1.2-1.3 and it wasn't available on the Marantz.
Im still hesitating to pull the trigger as I want to see what the next few months bring.

anyone consider the marantz 8001? i've got the denon 4306 on order but an now having second thoughts after hearing about the 8001. it upconverts to 1080i and passes thru 1080p which is all i'm wanting.
i don't have any experience w/ marantz but have always heard great things. any comments on customer service, etc.?
thanks,
mike

I am also looking at the new Marantz 8100. Does anyone have any comments on Marantz vs Denon? (4306) How about Outlaw 990 and 7125?

Thanks,
Mike Hopkins
Home Theater Guru
Aperion Audio

How about Outlaw 990 and 7125?



There is no HDMI on either Outlaw product.

Johnla,
Sorry, I should have been a bit more specific. I realize that Outlaw doesn't use HDMI on their products. I was wondering if any folks had personal opinions of either the Denon 4306 and Marantz 8100 vs the Outlaw seperates. Price would be very similar, but I haven't heard either receiver. I have listened to an Outlaw 1070, but not the seperates. Most of our customers use Denon receivers, but I am always interested with information on others.

Thanks,
Mike Hopkins
Aperion Audio

Have you guys seen the new NAD T785 receiver? It is the flagship replacement of the T773 receiver due out in November. 4 HDMI inputs ( not sure what version) Twin Toroidal transformers!...are you kidding me? Here are some basic specs. I am thinking of getting one of these, it looks awesome! What do you think?

Auto Setup and Calibration of all speaker settings with supplied microphone.
• Audyssey MultiEQ XT Room Correction with custom NAD developed target response curves.
• Configurable 7 X 110 per channel Full Disclosure Power Amp
• Twin Power Supplies with 2 Holmgren Toroidal transformers
• New High Speed 7.1 DSP
• 24 bit 192kHz A/D and D/A converters, with selected Stereo DACs for the front channels.
• Cross Conversion of all analogue video formats.
• Analogue video to HDMI Conversion.
• 4 HDMI Digital Audio/Video Inputs.
• Media Player MP front panel input
• Upgradeable Modular Chassis
• XM ready
• 3 Zone Audio Output with independent source and volume selection.
• Back Surround Amplifier Channels can be reassigned as Zone 2, 3, or 4, or front Bi-Amp.
• RS-232, 12 V Trigger In-Out and IR In-Out
• HTRC 1 Illuminated Learning Remote Control with LCD display & ZR 2 Remote
• Projected Retail $2795

Mike Hopkins
Aperion Audio.

Thanks for the tip ;)

Are there ANY receivers that will pass on 1080p at this point under $2000 or so?

It does not say explicitly that it does , but Carl, could you add the Sony STR-DA5200ES (http://www.crutchfield.com/da5200es) to the list please? :D

does this receiver do audio and video over hdmi denon AVR-2307CI? and is there a better receiver that can do hdmi swiching with audio and video for $700.00-$800.00 ?

bump i need to make a decision by today

Someone mentioned the Marantz SR8001 4xHDMIin 2xHDMIOut. Not had time to research it yet.

Any other new ones I should know about before I start searching again (I gave up last time)?

Starting in May through September most all manufacturers will be coming out with their new lines... many will support HDMI 1.3.

Starting in May through September most all manufacturers will be coming out with their new lines... many will support HDMI 1.3.

Does anyone know of a "relatively comprehensive" list of this fall's upcomming HDMI receivers? A table similar to that of the first post would be perfect.

Might want to add the Rotel, Adcom and Arcam to that list.

Rotel 1067 and 1057
http://www.rotel.com/products/surround-sound-receivers.htm

Adcom GFR700 and GFR700HD
http://www.adcom.com/prod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?hid=1&cid=46&sid=3

Arcam 280, 300 and 350
http://www.arcam.co.uk/diva_prod_range.cfm

Does anyone know of a "relatively comprehensive" list of this fall's upcomming HDMI receivers? A table similar to that of the first post would be perfect.


That would be great... but if you noticed the last time that list on the first post was updated was over a year ago.

Many things have changed in the last year and a comprehensive list would be great, but first we need someone who is willing to take up the task!

I guess we are not going to get any updates on the first page, but this is still a great thread, and I'd like to keep it going (unless anyone knows a better one here on this subject?).

I've looked into the Marantz - SR-8001 a little more, and it sounds like a great device. It has 2 HDMI outputs, which is EXACTLY what I was looking for, but could only find on high end video processors. I'm a bit out of date, but it is the first I've heard of a receiver having HDMI output switching other than perhaps the very top end Denon about 3 times the price!

If anyone has seen a good online review please post the link. My main concern is whether or not it upscales/upconverts/transcodes ALL inputs to HDMI, or only some of them.

The only problem with the two HDMI outputs on the SR-8001, for me at least, is that only one can be active at a time. To switch the active output, you have to go into the video setup menu, as explained on page 35 of the owner's manual.

Aparently switching outputs has (or is going to be) been made easier by a firmware upgrade. Not yet convinced if/how it works yet.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10893872&&#post10893872

Can we update to add newer imminent models, e.g.,

Denon 5308
Yamaha Z11

This is a great thread, but can we update for newer models

e.g.,

Yamah Z11...........................1.3ax6....MSRP...5000 ............Y LipSync***....ABT 1080P

Also could ad the Denon x308 range, the Pio 9x, Pioneer Elite SC-09TX, etc.

Yes I too would like to keep this thread alive. Here is some info I gathered in the last few months which might be helpful. I decided on the Denon 4308 but it's far too expensive here in Thailand Bt.109,000 (approx. US$3200)

DENON AVR-4308CI US$2000 (4->2 HDMI, HDMI 1.3, Audigy setup, iPod Dock support, Ethernet and Wifi?)
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3494.asp
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/denon-avr-4308ci-first-look
Nice GUI Setup
TrueHD Decoding
Audyssey setup
HDMI 1.3a
HDMI 4in/2Out
4 Optical inputs (back 3 front 1?)
2 Optical Outputs?
Can Automatically output different optimum resolutions to both HDMI outputs simultaneously

Yamaha RX-Z11 US$5000
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-z11-first-look
Has HDMI 5 in/2 Out (4 back 1 front)
Looks like 5 optical inputs (4 back 1 front)
HDMI 1.3a
Has iPod optional dock
Total of 11 channels

Onkyo 905 (Sorry no details)

Marantz SR8001 US$1500 Bt.69,900 (4->2 HDMI only HDMI 1.2!)

I really like the sound of my current receiver, as of August I have only had it five years, paid a ton for it, and with my 5K BR/HD Duo DVD player I have everything but an HDMI receiver for the new codex.

Is there any way to successfully integrate my old non HDMI receiver with an inexpensive HDMI receiver into the same 7.1 speaker system?

If there is a way, what is the $300 HDMI receiver of choice that will take care of my codex limitations? What price range and what are the possibilities for two HDMI outs?
Thanks-