New DVDO iScan VP30 [Text View] - Page 10

escon

01-29-06, 11:21 PM

When you see a show with panning judder, try switching the iScan's film mode to 'off' and see if this improves the judder. This disables the 2:2 pulldown detection and causes the iScan's deinterlacer to treat everything as video. If you still see the judder, then it may just be the results of 2:2 pulldown repeating every frame twice, or just some irregular or odd cadence in the source. If it fixes the problem, then it's likely caused by the deinterlacer locking to 2:2 pulldown when the source is really video, or when there is a combination of video and 2:2 on the screen at the same time (although that usually results in combing).

One other possibility is that the show is shot on film, but it's been edited to produce some really odd cadence. Some of the video editing tools allow the producer to speed up the field rate to change the amount of time a particular scene takes, or to make more time for commercials. This type of mucking about with the signal can make it really hard for the deinterlacer to figure out what's going on, with the result being that it's constantly dropping in and out of 2:2 lock.

- Dale Adams

Thanks Dale,

I've now completed some more tests on various program material and confirm that if the source is "proper" there is no judder whatsoever on frame locked settings (my case 50Hz locked 50Hz), provided your display can handle the native frame rate. All vertical and horizontal text scrolling is "as smooth as a baby's bottom". Panning is just unbelievably smooth, particularly on video material. Just wish now that some of the programs I like watching would clean up their act! With the Film mode Off or disabled, some material does indeed improve wrt judder. Came to realise of course that the film mode selection is only available on interlaced sources.

I carried out some of the same tests on a friend's Fuji display with mixed results. See My DBA Forum Post (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=27981&st=360&gopid=340049&#entry340049)

Still a lot to learn and catch up on. :)

Phil.

escon

01-30-06, 01:30 AM

The display I was using is my old 19" CRT monitor as my TV doesn't do progressive so I've been using this at SXGA via RGBHV and the PJ via HDMI to test out the VP30 till I can find a nice LCD TV.

I normally have it on locked 75Hz & 72Hz and most TV/DVD stuff has been okay. With this particular DVD I tried 50z locked and changed the film mode settings for both 50 & 75 but it still showed really bad judder (lots of pans in this film). But with unlocked 59.... it smoothed it out lots, not completely gone but enough not to be distracting.

I know normally film sourced stuff gets a 4% speed up from 24->25fps then transfered to 50hz PAL, I'm wondering if some step was skiped or it's an odd effect from a cheap transfer from a remastered 60hz NTSC disc.

Thanks Ailean. I think I'm slowly getting on top of all this stuff now - thought I understood it before, but it's not until you get right into it that all the pennies drop. :)

Phil.

Josh@dvdo

01-30-06, 01:04 PM

Josh, when are you going to release the rest of the discrete codes? In particular I am looking for the analog audio one.

I am working on these codes this week. Here is the discrete code for the Analog audio input:

0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

and the HDMI audio input:

0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0044 0044 0016 0001

Josh@dvdo

01-30-06, 02:36 PM

And the 'Letterbox' discrete code is:

0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

Josh@dvdo

01-30-06, 03:02 PM

And the Input Aspect Ratio Presets:

IAR Preset 1:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

IAR Preset 2:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

IAR Preset 3:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

IAR Preset 4:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

kpepling

01-30-06, 03:36 PM

Thanks Josh, now I just need to get home, plug it in and my macros will actually be done :)

Josh@dvdo

01-30-06, 03:52 PM

And the codes for the 4 Display Profiles:

Profile 1:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

Profile 2:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

Profile 3:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

Profile 4:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

MarkStega

01-30-06, 04:18 PM

1) What is the current state of the RS-232 control protocol?

2) The documentation for the control protocol does not appear to be on the DVDO web site? Is it available?

Thanks,

Josh@dvdo

01-30-06, 04:21 PM

The RS-232 protocol is available on request if you send an email to help@dvdo.com with "VP30 RS-232 Protocol" in the subject line. There are some commands which are not functioning as of yet (negative integers and navigation commands) which are holding up the release of this document on our website.

barrygordon

01-30-06, 04:21 PM

Mark,

The RS232 protocol is the same as that for the HD+. The HD+ coument is on the web. I have implemented it and it works. Some of the codes do not work and they (DVDO) are working on it. If you want my test program let me know. If you want the VP source and can take a few "License like" restrictions I can send it to you. I completely control the VP30 through its RS232 interface

Josh@dvdo

01-30-06, 04:23 PM

The RS232 protocol is the same as that for the HD+. The HD+ document is on the web.

There are some commands (like inputs) which have different registers.

barrygordon

01-30-06, 04:30 PM

Yes, but the protocol (as far as I can tell) is the same.

MarkStega

01-30-06, 05:27 PM

Josh,

Thanks, I've sent the e-mail requesting the preliminary document.

Barry,

Also, thanks for your offer. In fact, I have a working HD+ device driver so I can easily modify that for the VP30. I did see your post from back in January when I thread searched for RS232 but missed the fact that the control was so similar to the HD+.

ailean

01-30-06, 06:41 PM

And the codes for the 4 Display Profiles:

Thanks a lot for these Josh, profiles were my most needed ones but added the others just in case. ;)

physik

01-30-06, 09:14 PM

Ok, so I'm a complete newbie, who's putting together his first home Theatre

I'm going with the Panasonic AE900 projector, and now I'm deciding on components. My friends have all told me that a DVDO Iscan is a necessity. I'm going to be running a Motorola HD cable box, DVD player, and PS2. Which DVDO device best fits my needs? I don't feel like shelling out the extra bucks for the VP30, if a lower model will handle all my needs.

thanks

Mike N Ike

01-30-06, 09:46 PM

And the 'Letterbox' discrete code is:

Josh that's great. And I can make use of the preset codes too.

The support that you and Dale provide here was one of the major reasons I went with DVDO. You can be sure that I'll be in line when the VP40 is ready.

Thanks!

Mike

isamu

01-30-06, 10:11 PM

Hi guys.

I was considering getting an HTPC from Cellar Cinemas for about $4000-$5000. It would come with 3.5 Terabyts of HD space and would calbrated and tweaked to perfection. With 3.5TB of space I could really store all 400 of my dvds and still have room to breath.

But now, I'm seeing this VP30 and alternatively I could use my Sony DVP-CX995V 400 disc mega-changer, run it to a VP30 via SDI/DVI, then to my pj(which I have yet to buy...looking at an Optoma H78).

Which out of these two solutions would yield the best picture...Calibrated to perfection HTPC or iSan VP30 from mega-changer via SDI/DVI? Which solution would you go with?

Robert D

01-30-06, 10:25 PM

flyingvee

01-30-06, 10:29 PM

Josh/Dale - asked in it's own thread, but no answer. How do I get the advertised "any res in = any res out?" My RGBHV input now only responds to 720p, 1080i, and 600x480 out of my HTPC. A month ago, I could input any res from HTPC and get output to my display. Then the VP30 stopped outputting any video from any input; I had to perform a factory reset. Video output came back, but now only 3 res are supported by my VP30.

How do I get the VP30 to accept/input other resolutions from HTPC, as it did 3 weeks or so ago?

edit - ok, I rtbm, and my VP30 does pass the std res, as listed. Sorry - but I really would have sworn that it also passed 1600x1200. Any chance of adding that in a firmware update? And when do we see the audio update I was told to expect a week and a half ago by your tech support staff?

barrygordon

01-30-06, 10:33 PM

I run two Sony 300 dvd Megachangers through the VP30 into a Benq 8700. The changers are on a KDS component video/Digital audio switch. I run the changers at 480i allowing the VP30 to do all scaling.

I have enough space on the house server to store almost all my DVD's. I just do not consider it cost effective. But storage costs are constantly coming down. I store all my CD's (including DTS encoded ones) on the house server along with several concert DVD's. All of that plays back through a Roku photobridge, or the house audio system which is based on the turtle beach Audiotron. I use Raid mirrored drives and if I did not I probably would be rebuilding the Music and concert libraries periodically. Bad things happen to drives sooner or later.

The one advantage I have is that my system has a full DVD librarian that controls the changers (I developed it for my own use) . When I get a New DVD, I enter it via david Profiler, I merely enter the UPC code. It goes out to the Internet and automatically updates the librarian's data base (an XML file) with everything about that DVD including front cover image, tech specs, movie synopsis, cast, director, etc. The librarian shows 50 titles per screen in HD 36 point type. You can request the full information stored for that DVD if you want to. The list is either alphabetical or reverse chrono. Click on the DVD title and the system does the rest. It believes there is one 600 slot changer and is infinitely expandable. I can even adjust aspect ratios on the fly since that information is in the librarian's data base.

Everything in my system goes through the VP30 now. I am very pleased with the Picture Quality, and DVDO is working the remaining audio issues.

flyingvee

01-30-06, 10:47 PM

joealtus

01-30-06, 11:31 PM

Gary Murrell

01-30-06, 11:37 PM

escon

01-30-06, 11:40 PM

For what it's worth, I stated in an earlier post that since changing over to run the VP30 frame rate 50Hz locked to 50Hz I thought that I was getting a lot more audio drop outs.

I can now confirm this with complete confidence. Before the change to locked, I was running 50Hz unlocked 59.95Hz and I was getting a dropout maybe once or twice an evening. Now it's happening almost every 10 minitues. Hope this helps or confirms the cause and maybe of some assistance to DVDO.

Cheers,

Phil.

Josh@dvdo

01-30-06, 11:48 PM

Free

01-31-06, 10:35 AM

I had my first, really bad, experience with the VP30 last night. Normally, when changing channels, on my 8300HD, when I loose synch, I can just turn the VP30 off, and back on, to restore the picture. Last night it crashed hard, and the power went off. I couldn't even power it back up from the main power button. I had to pull the power plug and re boot that way to restore the picture.

I am going to leave my 8300HD input unlocked, so this doesn't happen again. Loosing a few frames is much better then having to go through this again.

jschefdog

01-31-06, 10:55 AM

btw, yet another audio bug - Saturday, got no audio from any of the inputs, thru VP30, thru Yamaha RX-V1200 receiver. Had to shut down and turn both back on to get sound again. Sorry to be whiney, but bizarre. No changes is system, cabling, or setup. And has fired up fine since.
I've seen the same problem. I am using HDMI from the VP30 into a Yamaha HTR-5990. I've had no audio and a few times screaching. In fact last night it happened for the first time without switching inputs. I was watching a movie recorded from HBO-HD on my JVC D-VHS deck with HDMI out. It must have hit a glitch in the tape, because suddenly the sound stopped and the picture started going in and out. Once the VP30 had resynched, I had picture but no sound. I checked the input setttings and it was still set to HDMI sound. Nothing I tried from the menus would get the sound back. I had to unplug/replug.

The HDMI output from the JVC is kind of a bizarre. It seems to cycle through several output states whenever you hit play or encounter a glitch in a HD tape. I think it drops down to SD output, then back to HD once the glitch has passed. It caused some thrashing when connected directly to my Sony HS-51 as well.

flint350

01-31-06, 10:57 AM

SJHT

01-31-06, 11:07 AM

Josh@dvdo

01-31-06, 11:42 AM

Thank you. Do you have one for 16:9?

Here are the rest of the IAR Presets:

4:3 Full Frame
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

16:9 Full Frame
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

User:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

bobloblaw

01-31-06, 12:38 PM

Josh, thanks for posting all of these codes!

During the pre-release phase of the VP30 there was talk of offering a firmware update to include a non-linear stretch feature. Is this still in the works? Any idea when this may become available?

Thanks again to you and the rest of the DVDO team for your presence on the Forum and your overall awesome customer service.

Josh@dvdo

01-31-06, 12:55 PM

During the pre-release phase of the VP30 there was talk of offering a firmware update to include a non-linear stretch feature. Is this still in the works? Any idea when this may become available?

This feature and pass through are at the top of our priorities list. Right now, we are focusing on correcting the reported audio issues.

flyingvee

01-31-06, 01:53 PM

This feature and pass through are at the top of our priorities list. Right now, we are focusing on correcting the reported audio issues.

Thanks - I was afraid you were going to state "alleged" audio issuses. Good luck, and let us know if you need any more info :)

FWIW, when mine lost all sound this weekend, it was with signals on all four digital inputs, (no HDMI involved) and the optical output. I didn't think to check the stereo/analog input. - should have, but the game had already started, I was selfishly more concerned with seeing my team get beaten on national tv. :(

Gary Murrell

01-31-06, 02:33 PM

I've seen the same problem. I am using HDMI from the VP30 into a Yamaha HTR-5990. I've had no audio and a few times screaching. In fact last night it happened for the first time without switching inputs. I was watching a movie recorded from HBO-HD on my JVC D-VHS deck with HDMI out. It must have hit a glitch in the tape, because suddenly the sound stopped and the picture started going in and out. Once the VP30 had resynched, I had picture but no sound. I checked the input setttings and it was still set to HDMI sound. Nothing I tried from the menus would get the sound back. I had to unplug/replug.

The HDMI output from the JVC is kind of a bizarre. It seems to cycle through several output states whenever you hit play or encounter a glitch in a HD tape. I think it drops down to SD output, then back to HD once the glitch has passed. It caused some thrashing when connected directly to my Sony HS-51 as well.

Yes the 5u HDMI output is kinda funky, it all comes from JVC not having a 1080i setting for menu's and SD inputs :mad:
a glitch or dropout ar anything and the deck is trying to go back to the 480i menu's and backdrop

-Gary

keenan

01-31-06, 02:46 PM

Lately, I've been getting an occasional solid green screen which completely locks up the display. It occurs during various video changes, even selecting the guide menu or simply changing a channel. Powering the VP30 or the TV on/off has no effect. The only method I have found to restore the picture is to unplug the HDMI cable and replug it. The feed is DVI out of the Motorola DCT-6412 to HDMI in on VP30 to HDMI in on display. I have been unplugging the HDMI on the display and immediately plugging it back in and all is restored - until the next occurrence. Any thoughts?
I haven't been getting any green screens, but I'm using the same setup-6412/DVI>VP30/HDMI>Display/HDMI, and have the 6412 set to 480i overide when viewing SD channels. When switching from viewing an SD channel on the 6412 to the DirecTV HD-TiVo for example, the display will go through a series of screen flashes as it changes sync, and about half the time it won't sync back up, I have to turn the VP30 off and then back on again.

I'm wondering if possibly a delay in the VP30 sync'ing/handshaking to the input when it's first switched to a different input might help..? I'm thinking that maybe the source is taking it's sweet time to change resolutions, and if the VP30 doesn't get a valid signal in a specified amount of time, it loses the handshake. Even switching inputs to another input and back does not resolve the problem. Turning the VP30 off/on is the only thing that fixes it.The problem could very well be with the cable box, or the display, but I seem to recall I never had this problem with the HD+, of course I was using the component inputs with the HD+. The HDMI path seems to be the culprit.

I also notice a less than smooth switch from 480i to 1080i from the HD-TiVo, sometimes it will not re-sync, I have to do the off/on trick when that happens as well.

I'm not an expert, but maybe an input "muting" or delay on the VP30 when an input is selected might help?

SJHT

01-31-06, 04:12 PM

This feature and pass through are at the top of our priorities list. Right now, we are focusing on correcting the reported audio issues.

Just make the audio as good as the iSCAN HD. I never had a single problem with it! SJ

speters

02-01-06, 02:03 PM

I am using the VP30 with the Mits 65813 RPTV, and I've been using hdmi>dvi out to the tv. I hooked up the analog out to my tv and I noticed some weird banding and color in the shadows. They had a slight magenta cast. When I had the HD, I was uisng the same input on the tv, and I did not notice this. Also, when I pulled up the grey ramp test pattern I could see some banding. On hdmi out I don't see as much banding. There is some still there, but you have to be within a 5ft of the set to see it, and the bands are spaced together more tightly. Gary, have you tried the analog out to yout Mits? Do you have the same issue?

Gary Murrell

02-01-06, 03:12 PM

Speters I have never tried the analog output into the Mits, try the RGBHV(5 wire) output of the VP30 into the RGBHV(5 wire) input of the 65813, I would love to see how that turns out

-Gary

Gary Murrell

02-01-06, 03:13 PM

I'm not an expert, but maybe an input "muting" or delay on the VP30 when an input is selected might help?

Yes that should do it, the Extron pro switchers and many display devices have a sync mute that blanks out all the on screen garbage until the picture sync's up

very very nice and would be sweet for the VP30

-Gary

barrygordon

02-01-06, 04:27 PM

Especially if the "Curtain" closed and opened on a switch of input.

keenan

02-01-06, 06:13 PM

That would make it nice, smooth and professional instead of the current image/resolution calisthenics on the screen.

Gary Murrell

02-01-06, 07:06 PM

calisthenics on the screen.

Thhhheeee What ?? :D

-Gary

pandemik

02-01-06, 07:54 PM

Hello all,

I have a question about the DVDO 30-day "return policy" for the VP30.

Are the international distributors/retailers also bound by this policy?

I wish to return my VP30 in Australia, as I can no longer justify keeping the VP30 given that I am seeing no results with my Fuji panel.

I would like a definitive response from DVDO as to whether the Australia distributor is also bound by this DVDO returns policy

many thanks

EDIT: actually I just found this on the DVDO website:

"The 30-Day Satisfaction Program is available to the original purchaser only, and only applies to products purchased directly from the DVDO webstore. "

So I guess that answers that?

escon

02-01-06, 08:56 PM

Thhhheeee What ?? :D

-Gary
Would two "l"s make a difference ;)

notanewbie

02-01-06, 09:14 PM

I too am inches away from returning my VP-30.

I have searched for 3 days on Native rate settings for my panasonic 65" 8UK.

Panny will not reveal the timing settings and claims they dont know them.

Tim and Josh at DVDO have not returned a single call in 3 days and no replys to tech support emails.

I have spent HOURS going through each and every incremental number on each and every possible H and V option with NO picture through HDMI.

I'm giving it one more day then it's going back. Too much trouble for too little in return.

RichB

02-01-06, 10:03 PM

I suppose you have tried this Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3757309&&#post3757309).

Are you using a DVI or HDMI board? It would be worth trying the DVI if you have one.

Can you connect a PC and get it to work at 1366x768? If so, then you can run powerstrip to get the numbers. Too bad these scalers cannot read the EDID information from the display like PCs.

-- Rich

Josh@dvdo

02-01-06, 10:52 PM

notanewbie

02-02-06, 12:03 AM

No actually Josh, Tim did not say that. In fact, he said he had no idea if the 65" Panny can accept NR through DVI or HDMI.

He also said he would call me back and so did you, but neither of you ever did.

SPA, a poster on another thread, claims to have NR 1366 x768 going to his Panny 50" plasma via a DVDO HD+ and he IS using HDMI. The same exact HDMI blade that I have in my 65".

Look, i'm not looking to start trouble, all I want is to get my panel NR. If it can be done via DVI then I'll go out and get a DVI blade. If it cant be done that's OK too but, if the company cant get it together then the chances for a consumer are ZERO.

I have done hours of reading, hours of tinkering and hours on the phone with DVDO. A little direction or help would be appreciated and it isn't for nothing...these are timings that you will probably need for another customer in the future so..

***FOLLOW UP: Ofer indicated in another thread, as did a few others, that NR is possible through BOTH DVI and HDMI and he has also done it on a 65" so I will stay on it.

ailean

02-02-06, 06:27 AM

I think the main problem here is that most Panel makers don't know (or at least can't tell you) how to get NR on there gear! :(

DVDO doesn't have much chance unless they can afford (and have the space ;) ) to buy every panel from every country and the time to figure them out. :rolleyes:

I really wish AVS would sticky the NR thread so people would be more encouraged to submit there own findings.

In a perfect world it should be in the back of every panel manual or at least in the EDID (which alas isn't always the case).

A month on and I'm still trying to find a 32-37" panel that'll do NR at at least 50 & 60Hz but it's looking like I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed that the next batch of 1080p ones can. :(

barrygordon

02-02-06, 08:12 AM

stlblufan

02-02-06, 08:31 AM

Perhaps Panny (service and parts department) would tell you that.

Not in my case, they wouldn't. :(

RichB

02-02-06, 09:20 AM

No actually Josh, Tim did not say that. In fact, he said he had no idea if the 65" Panny can accept NR through DVI or HDMI.

He also said he would call me back and so did you, but neither of you ever did.

SPA, a poster on another thread, claims to have NR 1366 x768 going to his Panny 50" plasma via a DVDO HD+ and he IS using HDMI. The same exact HDMI blade that I have in my 65".

Look, i'm not looking to start trouble, all I want is to get my panel NR. If it can be done via DVI then I'll go out and get a DVI blade. If it cant be done that's OK too but, if the company cant get it together then the chances for a consumer are ZERO.

I have done hours of reading, hours of tinkering and hours on the phone with DVDO. A little direction or help would be appreciated and it isn't for nothing...these are timings that you will probably need for another customer in the future so..

My 657UY can accept native rate via DVI and HDMI. HDMI works although it is not in the published spec. You DVI connection definately supports native rate.

Like I said if you can connect a PC, you get find out the parameters required.

-- Rich

notanewbie

02-02-06, 09:54 AM

I can connect a PC to it but what then? What program will I need to run to obtain the timings? Heck, I'll do anything at this point to figure it out, just tell me what to buy, what to do and I'll do it. I'll even post screenshots and the timing numbers so no one else has to go through this again.

stlblufan

02-02-06, 10:00 AM

notanewbie

02-02-06, 11:01 AM

stlblufan

02-02-06, 11:10 AM

1. PowerStrip menu > Display profiles > Configure
2. Click "Advanced timing options"

I would note however that it appears that you have connected via an analog connection -- your timings using a digital blade (DVI / HDMI) may be different than you get on an analog connection.

ailean

02-02-06, 11:15 AM

Perhaps the only way to get the NR on a panel is to open it (voiding all warranties) and finding out (maybe) who built the panel and their part number. They might be willing to tell you to what spec the panel was built. Just a thought. Perhaps Panny (service and parts department) would tell you that.
Alas I think even that wouldn't help much, you still need to get the signal thru the I/F hardware/firmware (HDMI, DVI, RGBHV), then thru the internal video processor hardware/firmware before hitting what I guess is something like the LVDS I/F of the panel. Anything on that path could be limited in what it will let thru or not mess with.

1080p panels look like the best option, once they start sticking I/F & VP on them that can handle the standarised 1080p @24/30/50/60 signals. Just not sure I can wait that long. :rolleyes:

Hoping that unlike Philips, LG will actually support 1080p input on there new LCDs this year.

notanewbie

02-02-06, 11:22 AM

You mean I went through all of this for nothing?

There isnt an HDMI PC card that I know of and that is the way I am running the VP30..via HDMI. Perhps there is but, if I dont input the PC signal through the exact same type of input (analog, HDMI, DVI) then the readings i get are meaningless?

Looks like I'm back to square one again.

spa

02-02-06, 01:21 PM

RichB has a 7 series 65" working with the 7 series HDMI blade. I've got a 7 series 50" working with the 7 series HDMI blade. notanewbie it sounds like you have an 8 series 65" with a 7 series HDMI blade. Does anyone have NR working with an 8 series display and the VP30?

notanewbie, I assume you can get a picture over HDMI using the 720p settings in the VP30 (or something other than NR). True?

Edit: looks like this question has already been asked here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638211), so respond there instead.

RichB

02-02-06, 01:35 PM

As expected, I downloaded powerstrip and have it connected and running to my Panny plasma. Looks outstanding but, I have no idea what or where to look to get the timings. Took some photos, maybe someone can lead me where to look to get what is needed to plug into the VP30? Thanks

Did you connect it via HDMI using a DVI to HDMI converter?

If so, make sure you have selected 1366x768 for your resolution.
If you can make that work, you have achieved native rate. All that needs to be done is to teach the VP30 the settings. To get the values, do what stlblufan suggested:
1. PowerStrip menu > Display profiles > Configure
2. Click "Advanced timing options"

I would note however that it appears that you have connected via an analog connection -- your timings using a digital blade (DVI / HDMI) may be different than you get on an analog connection.

and you will see a display screen with the timing.

notanewbie

02-02-06, 02:29 PM

I have no problems when outputting resolutions other than NR 1366x768 via HDMI. 480, 720, 1080 etc all work.

I did not use an adapter or converter, I used the serial port or the 15 pin VGA port, not a DVI output or any digital output.

I found that screen and the timings, it just didnt work when transferred over to the VP30. I think that the previous posters comments that the analog timings will differ from the digital timings may be correct.

The analog timings did not produce any image and I have no way of finding the digital timings because my laptop only has analog outputs and my desktop, which does have DVI but not HDMI, is over 30 feet away from the plasma.

This is WAY to difficult for the average Joe and I have some pretty extensive knowledge of scalers and NR.

RichB

02-02-06, 02:36 PM

notanewbie,

The analog input accepts native rate, but that is not important.

You will need a DVI to HDMI converter so that you can get your PC connected to the displays HDMI input. Then you can see if you can get native rate digitally and get the proper timings.

One thing is for sure, if you use a DVI blade NR is achievable.

-- Rich

MoG

02-02-06, 02:54 PM

This feature and pass through are at the top of our priorities list. Right now, we are focusing on correcting the reported audio issues.

sorry if this is a FAQ, but does this mean the VP30 is not yet suitable for a "constant height" set up where I need to vertically stretch all 2.35 content via the scalar? (and use my lens to horiz. stretch the image back to normal perspective).

thx.

Tom in OH

02-02-06, 03:02 PM

notanewbie

02-02-06, 03:16 PM

stlblufan

02-02-06, 03:26 PM

As far as using the DVI/HDMI converter, I think that could get me what I need but, my PC is 30 feet from the plasma and no laptop I own has a DVI output. So no luck there.

I had the same problem, but it didn't take me more than five minutes to unplug my PC and move it (with keyboard and mouse) in front of my TV.

RichB

02-02-06, 03:42 PM

RichB: Let me first thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions..I appreciate it.

As far as HDMI or DVI, forum members have stated that they have no issues using either blade on the panny and getting NR digitally.

I am awaiting the timing settings from Oferlaor who claims to have achieved NR on a panny 65" via HDMI AND using a VP30. If i get that from him and it still doesnt work then I give up.

As far as using the DVI/HDMI converter, I think that could get me what I need but, my PC is 30 feet from the plasma and no laptop I own has a DVI output. So no luck there.

I'll keep you and anyone else who is interested up to date as I go forward.

Just trying to help.

My 657UY experience and discussions with Panasonic leads me to believe that the IO boards can rule out supporting certain rates, but it is the panel itself that supports native rate. That is why the HDMI port works at all on the 7UY.

I believe you could bring your PC over and use a DVI to HDMI converter to digitally connect. When I switched to HDMI with my Lumagen, the same settings were very close. Just minor tweaking was needed.

I understand why you are frustrated. This is why, every so often, I mention the value of EDID support by scalers to help with initial setup. So far, no scaler manufacturer has responded. I guess they figure if you ware not smart enough to get native rate, you probably are not their target customer.

-- Rich

Mike N Ike

02-02-06, 03:46 PM

sorry if this is a FAQ, but does this mean the VP30 is not yet suitable for a "constant height" set up where I need to vertically stretch all 2.35 content via the scalar? (and use my lens to horiz. stretch the image back to normal perspective).

thx.

MoG, not a problem. I am currently using my VP30 to do the vertical stretch on anamorphic DVD's (2:35 AR) and of course my lens does the horiz. stretch to make it right.

Mike

jschefdog

02-02-06, 03:49 PM

sorry if this is a FAQ, but does this mean the VP30 is not yet suitable for a "constant height" set up where I need to vertically stretch all 2.35 content via the scalar? (and use my lens to horiz. stretch the image back to normal perspective).
The VP30 can stretch a 2.35 movie vertically to fill my 16x9 screen, so it should work with your anamorphic lens. It has independent vertical and horizontal size controls and 4 aspect ratio presets that you can save. So it can do just about any size or aspect ratio you want.

Josh Z

02-02-06, 03:52 PM

The VP30 can stretch a 2.35 movie vertically to fill my 16x9 screen, so it should work with your anamorphic lens. It has independent vertical and horizontal size controls and 4 aspect ratio presets that you can save. So it can do just about any size or aspect ratio you want.

Another 2.35:1 constant height user here. The VP30 is perfectly suited to this application.

CJayB

02-02-06, 09:29 PM

Are people still waiting to hear from DVDO concerning the "VP30 IR" and updates replacements?

Also, is DVDO going to extend the 2 month return time for credits. All my emails have received the auto response.

Tom,

I got very quick responses to both the IR problem (they emailed me the same day I made my request and mailed the replacement lens out the next day) and to my credit return (again, a same day email and my credit card was credited within a day or two after they got my unit back).

But I made the IR request just after they started the upgrade program and did my credit return well over a month ago; I think DVDO right now is a bit overwhelmed with both getting IR upgrades done and in getting the software audio glitches corrected, not to mention CES intervening. About 2 or 3 weeks after I emailed my IR lens request, I got an auto response email from DVDO saying they were very busy and would get to my request as soon as possible, but by this time I had already received the replacement lens!

As far as the trade-in credit goes, since you are apparently on record by email as having requested the return, I can't imagine DVDO won't do an extension and give you a reasonable amount of time to return your trade-in once they email you the return authorization number. I don't think DVDO's excellant reputation for customer service could survive anything less.

Scott Gammans

02-02-06, 10:20 PM

I just wish DVDO would answer my e-mail question regarding whether their package specials are covered under their 45-day money back guarantee. :mad: They have an interesting offer on a SDI-modded Denon DVD-2910 + SDI-modded VP30, but I'm not going to plunk down my money until I know that stuff like this is also covered by their trial policy.

Tom in OH

02-02-06, 10:31 PM

CjayB,
thx for posting your experience - glad it worked out easily. I chose the swap-out option which might take longer. I'll email again just to be sure the waiting line is moving.

barrygordon

02-02-06, 10:34 PM

I've had my VP30 for about a month now. The video aspects of the scaler in my environment work fine and I am getting a very high PQ on all video sources.

The Audio is an issue, and DVDO knows about it. The IR is an issue and so is the RS232 having some slight problems. I know for a fact that they are working these issues and feel they will resolve them. Software is software, and unless you are developing for Life critical systems very few can afford to get it perfect out of the box. As a person having been in the software/computer field for over 45 years I really do know how tough it is, especially with changing standards, weak standards (any 1.x standard is weak) and the total number of permutations of equipments in the A/V field.

I say we give them a chance. I am sure they will get it right and they are noted (by most at this forum) for their strong customer support policy. They actually do know where their bread is buttered.

My system is very usable, with some very minor glitches (audio only). I have had just as many issues with other gear because, like many out there, I am an early adopter.

isamu

02-03-06, 05:40 AM

Guys does the VP 30 have brightness and contrast controls?

aaronwt

02-03-06, 07:51 AM

YES and YES!

isamu

02-03-06, 08:05 AM

YES and YES!

Wow that's awesome! So does that mean that if I have a front pj with crappy brightness and crappy contrast, I can use the VP30 to accomodate the lack of them from the pj?

Also, what front projectors benefit the most from the VP30 as far as sharpness, contrast and brightness are concerned? I was seriously considering getting an Optoma H79, but after reading through the Sanzo Z4 thread, I am wondering if the VP30 would turn the Z4(or the AE900) into a projector that competes favorably with with those "10k+" quality pjs.

swb

02-03-06, 09:44 AM

Thats true i personally only use it for some biz. things and getting stuff on the net. We use normal bankcards in the way you use creditcards. And then mostly the 3 big brands amex, visa and master. The way it works (atleast in the netherlands) is that for example my mastercard(s) are directly linked to one of my bankaccounts so its a proxy for that. i can't put say $2000 on my 'creditcard' that will just result in getting $2000 pulled from one of my bankaccounts right away.

You are talking about a *DEBIT* card, not a credit card. These are linked directly to your bank account and the money is debited almost instantly. Credit cards in Europe are *EXACTLY* the same as in the USA and other parts of the world.

Josh@dvdo

02-03-06, 12:44 PM

I just wish DVDO would answer my e-mail question regarding whether their package specials are covered under their 45-day money back guarantee.

I am not sure why you think we have a 45-day return policy, it is 30-days. Anything purchased at www.dvdo.com has this return policy, including the SDI-modified DVD players.

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_sat.php

Scott Gammans

02-03-06, 05:05 PM

Sorry, was confusing DVDO's policy with that of a different retailer. So the 30-day return policy applies to SDI-modified products, too. Thanks!

isamu

02-03-06, 09:23 PM

what front projectors benefit the most from the VP30 as far as sharpness, contrast and brightness are concerned? I was seriously considering getting an Optoma H79, but after reading through the Sanzo Z4 thread, I am wondering if the VP30 would turn the Z4(or the AE900) into a projector that competes favorably with with those "10k+" quality pjs.

barrygordon

02-03-06, 09:37 PM

I am very satisfied with my Benq PE8700. I paid around $3000 for it new when I bought it. If I were in the market for a PJ I would look very seriously at the PE8720. They originally overpriced it, I have seen it for about $4500 now. The problem with most PJ's of that ilk is bulb life. They say 2000 hours, but I say if you want brightness then 1000 hours is much more realistic.

isamu

02-03-06, 09:53 PM

barrygordon

02-03-06, 10:06 PM

Not me. I have always had a Benq PE8700 since I converted the theater to Hi-DEF. Prior to that it was a Sony Superbeam CRT projector.

barrygordon

02-03-06, 10:16 PM

I have the following strange behavior with the VP30 and the SA8300HD. First off, the VP30 is running output at 1280x720 60hz. It's output framerate is 60hz unlocked. The SA8300HD is connected via HDMI.

When I switch from some other source (HDMI or Component) the VP30 locks onto the SA8300HD signal and it is stable for 1-2 seconds. The screen then completely goes to "Snow" and a second or two later it locks back on, syncs up and is fine until I switch inputs again.

The SA8300HD is set to output at all rates (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i), my understanding being that it will put out the actual source rate of the transmission it is receiving. In this way the scaler does all scaling as it should. Even if I limit the SA8300HD to a single rate e.g. 720p, it still happens.

Have any other SA8300HD owners seen this.? Does any one know why this is happening? Once the scaler locks on, shouldn't it stay there? The input (SA8300HD output) should not be changing.

MoG

02-03-06, 11:47 PM

Another 2.35:1 constant height user here. The VP30 is perfectly suited to this application.

Thanks for the replies guys. I realize now that I saw a recent post saying "linear stretch" is still coming and misread that as non-linear stretch... which is already there apparently...

next question:
is anyone sending .ts files to your VP30? I've got a fair number of 720p and 1080i movies in .ts file format, and if I get a VP30, I'd sell my HTPC and get some other (less expensive device) to feed the .ts files to the VP30... just want to hear from others doing it first...

HTSteve

02-03-06, 11:53 PM

Barry,

I have the same setup and I do not have this problem. THe only difference is that I do not have the 8300HD setup to output all resolutions.

HTSteve

02-04-06, 12:00 AM

THis is my second VP30, and this function still is not working correctly. So, I must be doing something wrong.

I have the following:

SA8300HD connected to VP30 via HDMI 1 (priority 1)
DVD via Comp 1 (Priority 2)
VCR (Priority 3)

I also have the Auto Priority seleced in the Input Select Menu. The only source that will auto select is the 8300HD. THe DVD and VCR will not. I must manually select these. I can also press the AUTO button on the remote and the sources will not display.

I have a single HDMI cable going to my display.

Any ideas?? My wife is getting pissed. This piece was supposed to simplify operation. It is actually making it worse.

Thanks.

barrygordon

02-04-06, 12:08 AM

escon

02-04-06, 01:42 AM

HTsteve,

I do not believe the SA8300SD ever powers off or removes its output signal. I believe that when in standby it is still sending a video signal, but it is gray. I have seen it send messages about HDCP when it is in standby. As a test you might pull its plug (no power no video signal guaranteed) and see if the second priority item (assuming it is on) then appears.

Most DVR devices operate that way.

P.S. At what output rate are you running the SA8300HD and do you get audio (dolby Digital and stero downmix) through the HDMI cable?

I concur with Barry - I have some devices that likewise actually don't turn off their output, even when put in standby. I eventually "gave in" and bought a Harmony Universal Remote. Solved all those problems and now my wife (and I) only use the Harmony for everyday type operations. The only other time I need any of the other remotes is when I need to do something out of the ordinary. It's amazing how quickly you almost forget the layout of the other remotes - nice to always have the same functions, such as selecting channels, in the same place for all devices!

Took a while to set up, but the Harmony's Web Based program walks you though all the steps required to select inputs etc etc for each of your "activities". The time spent to get it all going was well worth it in the end.

Phil.

Dale Adams

02-04-06, 06:54 AM

I realize now that I saw a recent post saying "linear stretch" is still coming and misread that as non-linear stretch... which is already there apparently...
Just the opposite, actually. The VP30 (and all the other iScan scalers) do linear scaling. The VP30 also has the hardware capability to do non-linear scaling, but it's not supported in the initial software release (i.e., it's coming. . . ).

- Dale Adams

barrygordon

02-04-06, 08:18 AM

Regarding IR and macros to do many things; For not too much money and a lit bit of work you can set up an IR repeater system in your viewing area. I have 5 IR sensors (the kind that look like 3" brass tubes with a front bezel and three wires coming out. I have two spaced across the front of the room below the screen, one on each side wall and one above the seating area. In this way the remote can be moved or held in different comfortable positions pointing almost anywhere and still work. All of the sensors are wired in parallel to an amplified connecting block to which I connect IR emitters as necessary to light up the equipment that uses IR. I run the VP30 both through IR and RS232.

The previous was a simplification in that my system has a PC in the IR loop so I do not do macros in the remote, but in the PC. The PC generates its own IR patterns for transmissions and is wired to the IR sensors for reception of IR. It is a very modifiable system. I just added use of the VP30 curtain when switching inputs. That looks very good!

The wiring is easy to canceal by going down te wall and behind the baseboard using very thin flat wire (I use 4 conductors).

HTSteve

02-04-06, 08:37 AM

Barrry Gordon,

I have a 7210, so I have the output set at 720p60 (native resolution of my display). I have no issues with audio. Actually, I send the audio through a digital coax. I have not tried the HDMI as I did not know (or check) if the 8300HD supported HDMI1.1.

I had another VP30, that worked properly for digital sources (8300HD and DVD), but would not autosource for the VHS. I returned this and DVDO indicated the video decoder was faulty.

I believe I have everything setup the same, but when I turn on the DVD, after viewing the STB, I can still see the faint outline of the 8300HD in 4:3 AR and nothing happens unless I manually select the DVD source. Even the Auto button on the remote does not help.

donjulio

02-04-06, 09:23 AM

HTSteve,

Try this to see what happens: Change the priority of the devices, make the 8300 #3. Turn on all the devices, and see what happens. Then turn off the new priority #1, to see if the VP30 selects #2, then turn that one off, to see if it then switches to the 8300 priority #3.

I have not really played with the priority settings, as my wife does not go into my "cave" where my hobby resides.

stlblufan

02-04-06, 11:19 AM

Re: the 8300, Barry is correct, at least with respect to HDMI. If you use component you can get it to turn off, but with HDMI I have found that even if you try to turn off the STB, it keeps flickering on and off--almost as if it is getting a re-sync HDMI signal or something. Auto worked for me with component though.

barrygordon

02-04-06, 11:37 AM

I have a sneaky suspicion that the SA8300HD HDMI turn off problem has to do with HDCP. It might be trying to see if what it is connected to is HDCP compliant. I know it will put out a message if it thinks not while in standby. Obviously on the component output that is not thecase.

barrygordon

02-04-06, 11:42 AM

I have just finished setting my system to use the "Curtain". I close the curtain every time I start to switch the VP30 input, I then wait either 5 seconds (Adjustable by component) or until the Audio processor signals it has locked onto a new audio signal after losing audio once. I then open the curtain. It really looks good. I have suggested to DVDO (and I think I mentioned it here also) that such a "Frill Feature" would be much appreciated as a configuration option ("Auto Curtain") with paramters for delay after closing to not accept another command, and delay before re opening.

mskreis

02-04-06, 12:28 PM

keenan

02-04-06, 01:05 PM

I'd like to be able to work the curtain trick Barry mentions into my Harmony remote, or better yet, have it a feature from DVDO.

dvreid

02-04-06, 01:35 PM

I'd like to be able to work the curtain trick Barry mentions into my Harmony remote, or better yet, have it a feature from DVDO.

Keenan, this is pretty easy on the Harmony website, you just go through the setup wizard again for the activity as go almost done it will review what you set. There is a selection at the bottom:

Are these the correct settings for this Activity?
- Yes, these settings are correct.
- Yes, but I want to add more control of options and devices for this Activity.
- No, I want to run the setup wizard again to change these settings.

You need to do the middle selection. It will then show you a screen if you need to add a device. If you already using the VP30 you just to press save (not real intuitive) or you click add next to the VP30 then do save. It will run you through the wizard again, but this time it will show you another menu that will allow you to add custom commands. You can add the curtain command to the leave action to close the curtain and in the start action then put a delay and then the curtain command again. You will need to do this for all activities.

later,
DR

HTSteve

02-04-06, 02:00 PM

DonJulio,

Unfortuantely, I don't have a dedicated room, but share it with my kids as a rec room.

I changed the settings and I made the 8300 #2 and the DVD #1 and things seemed to work better, but it still did not recognize the VCR. I will change the VCR to 1, DVD #2 and 8300 #3 after my kids get done watching their Saturday afternoon matinee.

One thing I noticed is that when the VP30 goes in standby (RED) it does not wake up and recognize any source that is turned on. However, if it is active (Blue), then it will auto source switch between my DVD and 8300HD with no problem.

Thanks for the idea and I will try the sequence above in a couple of hours.

barrygordon

02-04-06, 03:03 PM

Basically I do it with the equivalent of a very sophisticated programmable remote (A PC with an IR signal driver e.g. the USB-UIRT). Any programmable remote should work, but see my note on using lots of IR receivers so you do not have to hold the remote steady.

Two things to note:

1) After issuing the curtain command, I needed to wait 2 seconds to allow the VP30 sufficient time to close the curtain so I did not see the Blue screen as the curtain was in the midst of closing.

2) After I issued all input switch commands and any other VP30 adjustments, I either delay 5 seconds or wait for audio to lock on. From a programmable remote you can not detect audio lockon, so just use a 5 second delay. You may have to increase it if the curtain opens too early. A little playing around will give you the feel for it.

It looks very sophisticated and professional when it is operating!

barrygordon

02-04-06, 03:10 PM

HTsteve, You are misinterpreting the LED color.

Off - Standby
Red - No signal detected
Blue - Supported signal detected and locked on
Green - Unsupported signal detected
Blue Flashing - Input sourcce needs HDCP display but VP30 can not ascertain if the display is HDCP compliant.

HTSteve

02-04-06, 04:00 PM

BarryGordon,

From the DVDO website, which contradicts the owners manual:

17. What does the color of the power LED on my iScan VP30 mean?

iScan VP30 power LED color table:

LED Description
RED Standby mode
GREEN The iScan VP30 does not detect a signal on the chosen input
BLUE The iScan VP30 is processing the input

But I got it to work by using DonJulio's suggestion:

Made VCR #1
DVD#2
8300HD #3

Now auto detect appears to be working. Iwill wait until the VP30 goes into standby and try again to confirm.

barrygordon

02-04-06, 04:10 PM

That priority order makes sense under the assumption that the 8300 never turns off its video signal, and the others do. In effect the 8300 becomes the default system (lowest priority) and if nothing else is on it is the selected input source.

I never looked at the web site. When I issue a power off (really "go to standby") the led goes off. When I issue a power on it goes red momentarily and then green and finally blue. To me that indicates, that (red) it has left standby; (Green) it does not yet see a supported signal type; (blue) it ahd found a valid input signal and locked on.

Josh@dvdo

02-04-06, 04:26 PM

From the DVDO website, which contradicts the owners manual:

17. What does the color of the power LED on my iScan VP30 mean?

iScan VP30 power LED color table:

LED Description
RED Standby mode
GREEN The iScan VP30 does not detect a signal on the chosen input
BLUE The iScan VP30 is processing the input

Thank you for pointing out this error. The manual, and Barry, are correct.

But I got it to work by using DonJulio's suggestion:

Made VCR #1
DVD#2
8300HD #3

Now auto detect appears to be working. Iwill wait until the VP30 goes into standby and try again to confirm.

This is the correct setup when you have a source, like a DVR, which is always on. If you prioritize it higher than any other source, you will never be able to get the auto priority selection to select the next active source below the DVR becasue the DVR is still active.

dvreid

02-04-06, 04:58 PM

keenan

02-04-06, 05:14 PM

Keenan, this is pretty easy on the Harmony website, you just go through the setup wizard again for the activity as go almost done it will review what you set. There is a selection at the bottom:

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

It doesn't really fix a "problem", it just blanks the screen so you don't have to watch all the resolution contortions the VP30 and the display go through when it changes inputs or resolutions. You can have a blue screen, a black screen, and the display will showing flashing lines, basically a bunch of garbage that could be avoided by using the curtain or if DVDO inserted some sort of delay when switching inputs or changing resolutions.

dvreid

02-04-06, 05:34 PM

So do the same contortions happen using a cable or satellite box if you have the STB sending native resolution through the VP30. It would be similar to changing inputs and the resolution changes.

DR

aaronwt

02-04-06, 05:48 PM

My LED turns off when I go into standby mode.

BarryGordon,

From the DVDO website, which contradicts the owners manual:

17. What does the color of the power LED on my iScan VP30 mean?

iScan VP30 power LED color table:

LED Description
RED Standby mode
GREEN The iScan VP30 does not detect a signal on the chosen input
BLUE The iScan VP30 is processing the input

But I got it to work by using DonJulio's suggestion:

Made VCR #1
DVD#2
8300HD #3

Now auto detect appears to be working. Iwill wait until the VP30 goes into standby and try again to confirm.

keenan

02-04-06, 05:52 PM

It happens when you change resolutions, for example, when the output goes from 1080i to 480i from a Hd-TiVo or cable box, it takes a couple of seconds for the system(source>VP30>display) to "get right" again to display an image. And sometimes it fails and you end of with a blue screen. When that happens I have to turn the VP30 "off" and then back on again. I'm note really sure where the problem is, but I suspect that my display, a Mits 73" RPTV, does not like input resolution changes too much, even though it is capable of doing them. Plus, and I'm just guessing that going from 1080i to 480i and back to 1080i may trip some HDCP trigger on and off, and that's why I lose the image and have to re-start the VP30.

I'm still playing with it and it is not a big annoyance but it would be nice to figure it out, if possible.

THe VP30 works perfect with a SDI input, no problems there at all. In fact, the only "issues" seem to be with HDMI/HDCP sources, and even there, some/all of the problem may be due to different manufacturers implementation of HDMI/HDCP. Never had these problems using the DVI-out on the HD+.

keenan

02-04-06, 05:54 PM

Thank you for pointing out this error. The manual, and Barry, are correct.

This is the correct setup when you have a source, like a DVR, which is always on. If you prioritize it higher than any other source, you will never be able to get the auto priority selection to select the next active source below the DVR becasue the DVR is still active.
Josh, I know you folks have more important things to work-out, but will the VP30 eventually be able to mute the status light like the HD+ does?

dvreid

02-04-06, 06:09 PM

It happens when you change resolutions, for example, when the output goes from 1080i to 480i from a Hd-TiVo or cable box, it takes a couple of seconds for the system(source>VP30>display) to "get right" again to display an image. And sometimes it fails and you end of with a blue screen. When that happens I have to turn the VP30 "off" and then back on again. I'm note really sure where the problem is, but I suspect that my display, a Mits 73" RPTV, does not like input resolution changes too much, even though it is capable of doing them. Plus, and I'm just guessing that going from 1080i to 480i and back to 1080i may trip some HDCP trigger on and off, and that's why I lose the image and have to re-start the VP30.

I would have thought the VP30 would keep the resolution going to the RPTV the same. BTW, I have a 42" Mits RPTV. I probably is related to the HDCP handshake. 480i will not have it but 1080i would. Is it only when switch to a HD channel or is it when do any resolution change 480i to 720p/1080i or 720p/1080i to 480i? if it is a HDCP handshake issue I guess the transition to a HD resolution.

DR

keenan

02-04-06, 06:28 PM

I would have thought the VP30 would keep the resolution going to the RPTV the same. BTW, I have a 42" Mits RPTV. I probably is related to the HDCP handshake. 480i will not have it but 1080i would. Is it only when switch to a HD channel or is it when do any resolution change 480i to 720p/1080i or 720p/1080i to 480i? if it is a HDCP handshake issue I guess the transition to a HD resolution.

DR
Yes, the switch from 1080i to 480i input>VP30 seems to go fine. But switching back to 1080i from 480i seems to cause the problem and I agree, I think it has to do with HDCP and is most likely an issue with the source. Recently I have just been dealing with it and not really tracked exactly when, what, happens, but I was doing the same resolution changes with a Moto cable box, back and forth from 1080i to 480i on the Moto output and ended up with the HDCP blue half screen saying there was a connection issue. I suspect that the VP30 is doing what it's supposed to do and the problems may be with the source, but I really haven't sat down and diagnosed it throughly. I basically, at this point, just put the issue out there to see if anyone else was experiencing it.

HTSteve

02-04-06, 07:13 PM

Josh,

My recommendation is to clarify this in the FAQ and in the Owners Manual. It does make sense, but since the manual really does not specify anything regarding this (at least I did not see it) it may help alleviate future calls/technical problems with user's.

Also, let Tim Strohman in on this information. It probably would have saved a return RMA.

barrygordon

02-04-06, 07:47 PM

Keenan,

I am running with my output frame rate at 60hz unlocked with a resolution of 1280x720p 60hz. From what I understand, because the output frame rate is unlocked from from the input frame rate, the VP30 should hold a constant signal at 1280x720p to my projector. However I do not believe it does. My PJ puts a little info window on the screen as an OSD in the lower right stating what connector (DVI, RGBVH,VGA, etc.) It is looking for the signal on, and what it finds there in terms of resolution. It does this only when it loses signal lock.

Every time I change inputs, I see this window come up if I leave the curtain open. Since the only input to my PJ is DVI from the HDMI output of the VP30, I should never see that little OSD if the VP30 was maintaining a constant signal (never dropping sync or anything else) In the old analog days good switcher always switched during the Vertical retrace interval (I thank thats what it was called) when the screen was blank and the electron gun was flying back to the upper left corner.

Perhaps Dale Adams could comment on this since he was the one who explained locked vs. unlocked so eloquently.

aaronwt

02-04-06, 11:04 PM

Josh, I know you folks have more important things to work-out, but will the VP30 eventually be able to mute the status light like the HD+ does?

My status light goes out after a few seconds just like the HD+ did. There is a setting in the configuration menu to change the LED behavior so it doesn't stay on. It is the same setting the HD+ had.

barrygordon

02-04-06, 11:24 PM

I just solved the problem with my projector constantly trying to resync the signal on chnage of input. It was not the VP30. My control software would feed commands to the PJ every time I changed inputs to ensure that the PJ was correctly set to DVI in Wide format. Before I had to do that. I no longer do as I only use the PJ in one mode now (DVI input, Wide screen) and have the scaler doing the work. I actually had the code in place to test all commands to a component to see if the component was already in that state, but I had by passed it.

Dale Adams

02-04-06, 11:34 PM

A few of you have reported having occasional motion stutter problems with the VP30's 48 Hz output mode. I think I've tracked the source of the problem down to a software programming error.

The VP30's frame rate conversion hardware is not being set up correctly to provide a perfectly even cadence of 2:2 in the 48 Hz mode and 3:3 in the 72 Hz mode. (There should be no problem with 3:3 at 75 Hz for 50 Hz sources.) The hardware which generates the 24 Hz reference signal from the 60 Hz 3:2 pulldown source is being incorrectly set up so the 24 Hz signal is not completely regular, and this causes the VP30 to sometimes (although somewhat rarely) get off cadence. This most likely happens at a scene change or loss of lock on the 3:2 pulldown signal, and could be corrected at a similar event.

The good news here is that this should be easy to fix. I'll try and make sure that the fix goes out in the next software update.

- Dale Adams

keenan

02-04-06, 11:41 PM

My status light goes out after a few seconds just like the HD+ did. There is a setting in the configuration menu to change the LED behavior so it doesn't stay on. It is the same setting the HD+ had.
Can you tell me what you have it set at? I've read the manual and don't see how it would do that, in fact, I thought Josh said that the VP30 was not setup to do it..?

pstrisik

02-05-06, 12:10 AM

AndyN

02-05-06, 02:03 AM

AndyN

02-05-06, 02:05 AM

Dale,

Do you know if this affects the HD+ also?

pstrisik,

I don't think it does because as far as I can recall the HD/HD+ handled 48Hz and 72Hz beautifully.

aaronwt

02-05-06, 10:02 AM

Can you tell me what you have it set at? I've read the manual and don't see how it would do that, in fact, I thought Josh said that the VP30 was not setup to do it..?

I'm sorry. DOH! I was thinking about when it goes in standby mode that the LED goes out for me. When it is on an input the LED does stay a soft blue, but I don't notice it since it is dim and way below my eye level. I'm sorry about any confusion I created.

keenan

02-05-06, 10:38 AM

No problem. :)

kem

02-05-06, 10:48 AM

jschefdog

02-05-06, 01:26 PM

When I switch from some other source (HDMI or Component) the VP30 locks onto the SA8300HD signal and it is stable for 1-2 seconds. The screen then completely goes to "Snow" and a second or two later it locks back on, syncs up and is fine until I switch inputs again.
I don't have a SA8300HD, but have seen something similar from a JVC DH5U D-VHS deck when I hit play. Maybe because it switches resolution, goes from 480 line menus to 1080I movie output.

bradesp

02-05-06, 02:08 PM

Just the opposite, actually. The VP30 (and all the other iScan scalers) do linear scaling. The VP30 also has the hardware capability to do non-linear scaling, but it's not supported in the initial software release (i.e., it's coming. . . ).

- Dale Adams

Hi Dale,

I know it's not good form to announce a feature availability date on a speculative basis, but could you at least charaterize the timeline for "smart stretch"? This is a feature that will trigger my credit card :-)

Are we talking 3, 6, 9 or 12 months in the future before this kind of feature finds it's way into an update?

THanks!

bradesp

isamu

02-05-06, 02:15 PM

So what's the verdict on the VP30? I am looking to get one but I'm reading about all these problems and now I'm not so sure.

Can someone list all the problems this unit has and tell me if it's worth buying yet? I have yet to see any glowing comments about it.

keenan

02-05-06, 02:32 PM

shanewalker

02-05-06, 03:12 PM

Wondering if, as I'm trying to be a bit proactive in anticipation of the release of the software update, I could ask a question. This is aimed at those out there who update their DVDO products using Virtual PC on a Mac and, say, a Keyspan USB-to-serial adapter. I know a couple of folks responded earlier in the thread that they've done so successfully.

Well, I'm all up-to-date in my Virtual PC, my serial adapter drivers and the installed Windows XP Pro is fully patched. Any caveats or known issues I should be aware of, or does it work as expected? I've installed maps on my Garmin GPS successfully using Virtual PC, but didn't know if this would present any unforseen issues. Thanks.

Feel free to PM me if you don't wish to post a reply here.

escon

02-05-06, 05:08 PM

When something is working as it should people generally don't post anything so to weigh the "negative" posts in this thread versus the positive ones is not an accurate representation of the performance of the VP30.

Speaking for myself, the problems I have been having are really nit-picking things and I'm very satisfied with the overall performance. Having DVDO products in the past, I know that they have a customer service group virtually unmatched in the industry and that the nit-picking problems will most likely be addressed when they can.

I agree with keenan. I am very happy with mine, although there are still a couple of minor niggles, the audio one being really the only one of any consequence to me. My setup is non-HDCP - people who have HDCP compliant displays and HDMI devices that require HDCP authentication are having a greater number of issues. This is no worse in my experience than any other HDMI with HDCP equipment manufacturer is currently experiencing in getting their device to work with a wide variety of displays.

In our country Toshiba put out an HD/SD PVR with HDMI and HDCP enabled. It caused so many problems with a large number of displays, that I am told they allowed HDCP to be disabled in the setup menu. Allowing HDCP to be dropped makes perfect sense really in this instance IMO as what's being recorded is OTA stuff anyway.

Phil.

barrygordon

02-05-06, 05:24 PM

I am very fussy in my HT. I spent a lot of time and effort. Much earlier I returned a KDS LEEZA because I did not think it gave me the PQ I wanted. To be fair they were issuing firmware updates regularly (weekly) and this was 2 years ago.

The VP30 clearly has problems, and all of them that I have seen are centered around HDMI audio and to some degree video. I have seen no problems when I use the Component input to the scaler.

At the current time I am using the scaler and refining how I use it. I live with the few problems I am having, but then I am retired so I have more time than most, and widowed so I have no else whose satisfaction I need to contend with.

One of my biggest annoyances is the amount of time it takes the scaler to do its thing when inputs change, but it is no slower than my projector was when it was doing any and all scaling. With my PJ doing the scaling (Pre VP30) the audio would lock in immediately with the audio processor on an input change. With the VP30 processing the Audio I am getting significant delays for audio lockon AFTER the video syncs up. I have enough Audio flexibility (Three Toslink, 5 S/PDIF coaxial) to run all my audio around instead of through the scaler. I may just do that and see how bad the audio lip sync problem is with the scaler out of the audio loop.

isamu

02-05-06, 05:33 PM

I have enough Audio flexibility (Three Toslink, 5 S/PDIF coaxial) to run all my audio around instead of through the scaler. I may just do that and see how bad the audio lip sync problem is with the scaler out of the audio loop.

That's what I was wondering.....why aren't you guys just running your audio cables directly to your receiver? Doesn't your receiver have a lipsync adjust for any potential audio delays?

barrygordon

02-05-06, 06:14 PM

My audio processor does not have a lip sync or audio delay feature, but I should double check. Whoops, it does. Now that is interesting!

seasea

02-05-06, 09:00 PM

escon

02-05-06, 09:47 PM

Dear all,

I am currently setting up a new VP30 using:
i) Denon 2900 DVD 480i componet input to VP30, and
ii) HDMI output to Sanyo Z3 projector via 720p.

I played some DVD's and test patterns and everything is working fine. But when I set the Display Profile to Auto (Output Setup->Display Profile->Auto), its shows black screen, and I have not been able to get any image on my screen since then.

I checked the input to the Sanyo Z3 projector, it shows that a 720p input is detected through its HDMI input, but the screen is still black.

Now the front dispay panel and blue LED of the VP30 is still response normally to the remote control. The Sanyo Z3 is working fine too.

I have tried a few times to set the VP30 to factory default (through Configuration->Factory Default->Yes), the iScan VP30 reboots to its factory default but it still shows black screen. I used remote control to power "off" and "on" the VP30 a few times too but no success.

Anyone experience similar problem? What can I do to get back the image?

I have once had a similar problem, but a bit more "severe" than yours by the sound of it. Could neither get a VP30 display (FPD) or display on my panel, only the LED functioned normally.

I tried to power down the VP30 by removing the power supply connection and letting it "rest" for 15 min, but to no avail. It looked like the curtain had come across, but pushing the curtain button repeatedly had no effect. I also noted that the info display panel on the VP30 itself would only briefly come up on power ON, and then disappear. No amount of Menu button pressing would bring it up. As the Info panel on my display couldn't be read either (curtain across it), I was left literally in the dark as to what the hell was going on. I eventually got things going again by trying different input sources and finally getting a picture out of one of the Video sources.

Once I had a display, I could track things down. The VP30 had set the HDCP to ON on the input and output profiles. I did NOT do a factory reset, so that was not what reset the HDCP settings to the default ON. As proof that I did not accidentally do a factory reset, I noted that all my other settings had not changed. How did this happen then? I don't know.

Oddly, it was only after I turned OFF the HDCP on Output menu, that I was able to get a display from Component 1 again. I was able to get a display from HDMI 1 with HDCP on the output set to ON however. There seems little connection between HDCP and Component 1 as there is no HDCP selection possible on Component 1. Strikes me this was one of those unintended "lock-ups" of the VP30. When I tried to simulate this setup/set of stimulus again, I got the “Serious error, call DVDO” messages on the FPD. Pulling the power plug fixed it again.

Anyway, as all my devices and display are non-HDCP compliant, I set all the HDCP's back to OFF, and that cleared the problem. What was surprising though was that after setting some back to ON, the VP30 still worked normally, although it would spend some time to decide to let the signal through to my display. This is how it all worked for me at first when I set up the VP30, before I customised it and turned the HDCP's OFF, and this is the way it should behave, that is, it should work with HDCPs ON if you don't have any HDCP sources or HDCP display. I set them to OFF because it makes switching between sources faster.

Josh (of DVDO), I have a suggestion here. Would it be possible to have the Info panel menu or maybe all input menus come up on top of the curtain (when it's drawn) so that you have a chance of figuring out what the problem(s) is/are? I don't think this would compromise security or appearance - some might not like stuff on top of the curtain, but the menus disappear by themselves anyway and only come on when you elect to do so.

seasea

02-06-06, 12:50 AM

escon

02-06-06, 01:11 AM

Thank you for enlightening me on this problem, escon.

Yes, I was connecting the DVD input to VP30 through Component 1 input.

escon, from your experience, it seems that I will be able to get back the image by simply setting the HDCP to OFF?

Should I set the HDCP to OFF for the input or output profiles or BOTH profiles?

Anyone experience such black screen problem with SDI input?

Thank you again.

Yes, in my case the crucial thing was to set HDCP OFF in the VP30's output menu. Weird as I said, because the Comp 1 doesn't have an HDCP option to set and in any case, you shouldn't have to set HDCP ON for your display, even if it's an HDCP compliant display. You should only have to set it ON, if you are feeding the VP30 with an HDCP enabled source such as connected to one of the HDMI inputs.

Even more weird was that after I turned OFF HDCP on the output menu of the VP30, and got Comp 1 through, I tested the setup again with HDCP turned ON. This time it all worked as it should - I still got Comp 1 through after the VP30 and display did some "chatting" with each other and the VP30 decided that although my display was not HDCP compliant, it didn't need to be, and gave me the green, no, sorry, blue light to go ahead with the communication/transmission of the picture.

seasea

02-06-06, 01:13 AM

Josh@dvdo

02-06-06, 01:42 AM

Josh@dvdo

02-06-06, 01:46 AM

Josh (of DVDO), I have a suggestion here. Would it be possible to have the Info panel menu or maybe all input menus come up on top of the curtain (when it's drawn) so that you have a chance of figuring out what the problem(s) is/are? I don't think this would compromise security or appearance - some might not like stuff on top of the curtain, but the menus disappear by themselves anyway and only come on when you elect to do so.

Are you saying that the 'Info' screen should come up automatically when the curtain comes on? With the current software the 'Info' screen and the OSD can come up over the 'Curtain' once it is drawn, but this does require user interaction.

Josh@dvdo

02-06-06, 01:51 AM

Hi Dale,

I know it's not good form to announce a feature availability date on a speculative basis, but could you at least charaterize the timeline for "smart stretch"? This is a feature that will trigger my credit card :-)

Are we talking 3, 6, 9 or 12 months in the future before this kind of feature finds it's way into an update?

Any question about specific feature additions to DVDO System Products are better directed at me than Dale as I am the Product Manager of DVDO System Products.

We should have non-linear stretch available in a software update for the iScan VP30 within 3 months.

seasea

02-06-06, 01:55 AM

Is there a reason that you are using the Display Profile function? It sounds like you have do not more than one display and you are using the different output resolutions for different content/sources (which are the most popular reasons for using Display Profiles.

I will try to duplicate the situation that you described tomorrow to see if I can determine the cause of this and how to correct it.

Thank you Josh.

I am using the Display Profile function because I intend to connect another Panasonic dvd player with SDI output to the VP30 SDI input.

If I am using the VP30 HDMI output to the projector, should I adjust the Brightness, Contrast , Colour/Saturation at the VP30 or at the projector? Which way is better?

With HDMI or SDI input to the projector, does the adjustment on Colour/Saturation at the projector still have impact on calibration?

Thank you.

escon

02-06-06, 01:58 AM

Are you saying that the 'Info' screen should come up automatically when the curtain comes on? With the current software the 'Info' screen and the OSD can come up over the 'Curtain' once it is drawn, but this does require user interaction.

Josh, Argh. no, you already have the info menus come over the top of the curtain :eek: . Just never tried that before when things work normally!!. But... when I was experiencing all these troubles, I could NOT get it to come over the top of the curtain any which way I tried. I say "curtain", because that was what I assumed was happening. Maybe the "blackout" is not due to the curtain function coming in, but due to some other malfunction.

Josh@dvdo

02-06-06, 02:03 AM

Thank you Josh.

I am using the Display Profile function because I intend to connect another Panasonic dvd player with SDI output to the VP30 SDI input.

The Display Profile function has nothing to do with using different sources. It sounds to me like you are looking for a control to set up auto Input Selection. The first thing you need to do is adjust the priority of your sources in the Input Adjust->Auto Priority submenu (make sure to priortize sources that are always on, like TiVos at the bottom). Then you can press the 'Auto' button at the bottom of the remote, or choose 'Auto' in the 'Input Select' menu.

If I am using the VP30 HDMI output to the projector, should I adjust the Brightness, Contrast , Colour/Saturation at the VP30 or at the projector? Which way is better?

Use the test patterns on the iScan VP30 to adjust the settings on your projector first, then use the 'Picture Control' adjustments to adjust your individual sources using AVIA and the half-transparent test patterns on the iScan.

seasea

02-06-06, 02:09 AM

escon

02-06-06, 02:55 AM

Josh, Argh. no, you already have the info menus come over the top of the curtain :eek: . Just never tried that before when things work normally!!. But... when I was experiencing all these troubles, I could NOT get it to come over the top of the curtain any which way I tried. I say "curtain", because that was what I assumed was happening. Maybe the "blackout" is not due to the curtain function coming in, but due to some other malfunction.

Josh,

I played around a for a little while with the curtain drawn and popping up various menus.

Well, guess what. I locked the system up again. Flashing LED from Red to Blue and FPD like wise flashing on and off. The last input the VP30 was set to was HDMI 1 which is connected to a non-HDCP 1080i source. The input menu for that input was set to HDCP OFF. After the recovery procedure outlined below, it was still OFF, i.e the hangup had not set the HDCP ON on this or any other HDMI input.

Did the usual power down for 15 min, but to no avail. Could not access any menus on the VP30's FPD nor of course any of the VP30's menus on my display.

To get out of this condition, I have now learned an escape procedure.

1. Turn ON any or all other non HDMI input sources.
2. Select one of these non-HDMI input sources. Selecting any of these inputs whilst there is no signal present on them will NOT do the trick.
3. The display should now come up with the input you've selected. Huge sigh of relief :D
4. Go to the output menu and turn OFF HDCP which has come ON by itself.
5. You can now turn HDCP on the output menu back ON again and all will work normally. :confused: :confused:

I hope that this info will help you get to the bottom of all of this. Like I've said before, none of this was an issue on the HD+, and my bet is that it's all due to this @$^&( HDCP nonsense. Most frustrating :( . And here I was telling everyone in an earlier post that all I had was a simple audio dropout sometimes. :)

P.S. Josh, like the increased audio drop-out rate, this problem has come up since I changed from 50Hz Unlocked 59.94Hz to 50Hz Locked 50Hz.

seasea

02-06-06, 03:01 AM

3. The display should now come up.

Hi escon, you mean the front panel display (FPD) of the VP30? we do not see any image on the screen when the lock-up happens right?

escon

02-06-06, 03:32 AM

Hi escon, you mean the front panel display (FPD) of the VP30? we do not see any image on the screen when the lock-up happens right?

Right!!!

Scott Gammans

02-06-06, 12:30 PM

Any question about specific feature additions to DVDO System Products are better directed at me than Dale as I am the Product Manager of DVDO System Products.

We should have non-linear stretch available in a software update for the iScan VP30 within 3 months.
Hello Josh,

Could you explain, in words that a child (me) can understand, what you mean by "non-linear stretch"? Are you talking about different ways of stretching 4:3 input material to display across the entire 16:9 display (e.g., the "Panorama" option in many 16:9 television sets)?

Josh@dvdo

02-06-06, 12:46 PM

Hello Josh,

Could you explain, in words that a child (me) can understand, what you mean by "non-linear stretch"? Are you talking about different ways of stretching 4:3 input material to display across the entire 16:9 display (e.g., the "Panorama" option in many 16:9 television sets)?

Yes, that is what I am referring to. Non-linear stretch is typically used to display a 4:3 signal on a 16:9 screen. The 'non-linear' part refers to the fact that the stretch is uneven (non-linear) from left-to-right, with the center portion unstretched (undistorted) and the edges stretched (distorted).

barrygordon

02-06-06, 01:06 PM

I too am seeing high audio drop out rates, but I believe it is DirecTV and Florida weather. I have a cable system I am evaluating and to be honest, I am probably going to switch since there is virtually no weather problems and the local feeds come digitally over the cable in HD not OTA as is the case with my DirecTV setup. I hate when I TiVo a program and then realize it is practically unwatchable with A/V dropout.

There should be no Automatic menus on top of the curtain. If people really want that please make it a config option. Selecting the color of the curtain would be a nice config option. Of course all of these "Nice" things should wait until all of the problems are resolved.

I am seriously considering doing a little rewiring of the HT to bring all of my HDMI audio feeds directly into my AVP processor. I now know I can insert a delay if the lip syc is annoying to me, but it is a fixed delay. I assume the VP30 does a better job and adjusts the delay based on the video delay. Oh well it is better than nothing.

flyingvee

02-06-06, 01:15 PM

Josh - how is the audio patch/fix coming? Wouldn't ask, but your tech support implied it would be out over 2 weeks ago, and on your site. I don't see it - apologize in advance if it is there. I can wait for stretch - really would like audio to work tho.

isamu

02-06-06, 03:55 PM

The VP30 with the SDI mod, according to DVDO has a MSRP of $2400. Does anyone know where I can get one a bit cheaper? Say for $2000? Any kind of special promotion going on? Man I want one but at $2400....ouch!!

Please PM me.

barrygordon

02-06-06, 04:06 PM

Try eBay. But read the fine print on B-stock and warranties. Make sure they are a factory authorised reseller

keenan

02-06-06, 04:17 PM

Try Jason Turk at AVS sales,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=2104
AVS Forum - View Profile: Jason Turk

keithsimp

02-06-06, 04:46 PM

Try Jason Turk at AVS sales,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=2104
AVS Forum - View Profile: Jason Turk

I second this motion. Try Jason.

escon

02-06-06, 07:57 PM

There should be no Automatic menus on top of the curtain. If people really want that please make it a config option. Selecting the color of the curtain would be a nice config option. Of course all of these "Nice" things should wait until all of the problems are resolved.

Hi Barry, no, I wasn't advocating that. What I was asking for was the ability to allow the menus to be seen on top of a drawn curtain. Of course, this already exists!! :) :) I had just never used this feature before and thought it would be a good idea. :cool:

This all came up when I couldn't access the menus when my VP30 is in a locked state. On the previous page, a few posts back, I detailed the conditions under which mine locks up and how I finally found a way to get out of this state.

Perhaps as I said earlier, when I can't access the menus over a black screen, it may in fact not be the curtain being drawn at all, but some other condition that blanks out the screen. It is probably the same "curtain" that is used to blank out the screen when the HDCP handshake is not found. In the lockup scenario I described before, my screen actually pulsates between blue and black - perhaps at the rate the HDCP handshaking is carried out at. The LED pulsates between red and blue and FPD likewise pulsates in synchronism. The rate is about once a second. When this is happening I can't access the FPD or any other fuctions on the remote. The recovery procedure out of this condition is as I described before a few posts back.

Many more posts back I mentioned that I had a similar problem when using the RGBHV input with certain notebooks (res of notebook at 1024x768). In this instance I get the pulsating phenomena, but it doesn't lock up the system, and is not regular in its pulsating rate.

Hopefully I have given DVDO enough information to help them trace the problem.

Scott Gammans

02-06-06, 09:28 PM

Yes, that is what I am referring to. Non-linear stretch is typically used to display a 4:3 signal on a 16:9 screen. The 'non-linear' part refers to the fact that the stretch is uneven (non-linear) from left-to-right, with the center portion unstretched (undistorted) and the edges stretched (distorted).
Ahhh... now THAT would be a neat trick. I often watch 4:3 material like The Simpsons in Panorama mode on my 30" 16:9 Samsung, so I'm sure that a feature like this would come in handy for the home theater.

That reminds me of something else: There are some shows that I like to watch on standard definition (4:3) television that are letterboxed (e.g., Nip/Tuck and Rescue Me on FX, Battlestar Galactica on SciFi, etc.). Does the VP30 have the capability to zoom letterboxed SD material so that it eliminates the letterboxing and the pillarboxing, or is this also something that will have to wait for the "non-linear" feature?

Dale Adams

02-06-06, 09:39 PM

There are some shows that I like to watch on standard definition (4:3) television that are letterboxed (e.g., Nip/Tuck and Rescue Me on FX, Battlestar Galactica on SciFi, etc.). Does the VP30 have the capability to zoom letterboxed SD material so that it eliminates the letterboxing and the pillarboxing, or is this also something that will have to wait for the "non-linear" feature?
Yes - all the iScan scalers can do this. Just tell the iScan that the source is 4:3 letterboxed and that your display is 16:9, and the middle 16:9 portion of the image will be scaled to fill your screen. If the active area of the letterboxed source is wider than 16:9 (e.g., 2.35:1), then if you want to completely fill the screen you may have to zoom the image vertically (and, optionally, horizontally too). The scaling will be linear - i.e., all source pixels will be scaled/stretched by the same amount.

- Dale Adams

Scott Gammans

02-06-06, 10:18 PM

That's good to know; thanks. Now, would I be correct in assuming that this audio problem that I keep hearing about is limited to those who run their HDMI into the VP30 and only then split off the audio from the VP30 to their prepros/amps/whatever? If I have a video source that is only using the VP30 for video processing and I send the audio directly from the video source to my preamp/processor, I'm not going to have a problem am I? (And yes, my preamp/processor does have an adjustable lip synch feature.)

aaronwt

02-06-06, 10:43 PM

MoG

02-07-06, 10:25 AM

aaronwt,
do you not use an digital audio cable from your HD-Tivo and/or Sony 975 just for the convienence factor? (ie-only 1 cable from each to the VP30).
or are there other reasons?

dlm10541

02-07-06, 10:28 AM

I have had some audio problems-now minimized by a software patch. I am currently getting audio drop out but only when switching channels on my cable DVR. I am feeding all devices to VP30 via HDMI and sending audio to my receiver and video to the display.

I can not envision problems if you bypass the VP30 on audio.

Like most I am also very happy with the support at ABT/DVDO. I wish that all companies were this responsive--wishful thinking for sure. :)

John Williams

02-07-06, 11:29 AM

Like aaronwt I also have a Denon 3805 (very nice! & used as a pre/pro only) that I connect via the VP30's coax out, and I don't have any problems related to audio -- correct lipsync delay, no pops/clicks, etc. Oddly, I did have an issue with my original iScan HD in this setup, so for me at least the VP30 is better at audio than the previous generation units. YMMV, obviously.

Here's what I have connected and how:

Comcast/Motorola 6412p3 DVR: HDMI --> VP30 (audio and video)
Xbox: Component + Toslink --> VP30
Panasonic RP82 DVD: SDI (video) + Coax (audio) --> VP30

VP30 --> Denon 3805 (coax)
VP30 --> Mits 62725 (video only)

The only audio "issue" that I have is the fact that my Comcast DVR has a firmware bug that only sends PCM (no DD) via HDMI. This is supposed to be fixed in their next FW release, any year now...

-John

Scott Gammans

02-07-06, 11:38 AM

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions... looks like an SDI-modded VP30 is in my near future. :cool:

dlm10541

02-07-06, 12:40 PM

The only audio "issue" that I have is the fact that my Comcast DVR has a firmware bug that only sends PCM (no DD) via HDMI. This is supposed to be fixed in their next FW release, any year now...

-John
I have the same DVR but a different carrier (soon to be Comcast however) and I get DD over HDMI but also get the drop outs. The DCT6412 is buggy but DVDO has been working to overcome the problems with this unit.

I have read elsewhere that Comcast does have the firmware to correct your problem

John Williams

02-07-06, 01:33 PM

dlm10541,

Yes, Comcast supposedly has the firmware (v12.22+) done and it's out in some markets, but not mine. I think it is up to the local headend to make the call to push it out or not.

I agree that 6412 is generally a buggy PoC, and I'm just happy that DVDO did the work they did to make the VP30 work with it. From what I've read some new HDMI receivers (like the Denon 4806) are coughing up major hairballs when connected to a 6412.

Where's my cable-ready dual-tuner TiVo when I need it?!?

-John

dlm10541

02-07-06, 01:46 PM

Do you know how to determine the firmware version onthe 6412. The initial setup screen (push menu when box is off) does not show it.

Thanks

donjulio

02-07-06, 02:30 PM

For 6412 with IGuide: while box is on: Hit Menu, Menu again, scroll down to Setup, then Setup, scroll down to Cable Box setup, then down to Config and then enter.

keenan

02-07-06, 02:34 PM

Do you know how to determine the firmware version onthe 6412. The initial setup screen (push menu when box is off) does not show it.

Thanks
Press MENU>MENU>SETUP>Cable Box Setup and arrow down to Configuration:Select To Display.

dlm10541

02-07-06, 02:35 PM

Thanks I will try it tonight. Mine uses Passport Echo guide software but that may not affect the firmware. We will see

escon

02-07-06, 04:09 PM

Not everyone is having a problem. I have no problems using both my HD-TiVos and a Sony 975 DVD player using the 6.1DTS/5.1DD audio over the HDMI to the VP30 and then using the optical out of the VP30 to my Denon 3805. I have no problems with the audio in my setup.

Yes, it's all very strange really. I have NO HDMI sources at all and feed all my audio into the VP30 via the coax and optical inputs. Optical out to my receiver. Everything HDCP is turned OFF in all the menus.

Yet, the VP30 gives me dropouts on ALL the connected sources, and NO, I never had this problem with the HD+. The ONLY difference in the setup between the HD+ and VP30 is that I am now running 50Hz locked 50Hz on the VP30 whereas I was running 50Hz unlocked 59.94Hz on the HD+.

I fail to see why locking or unlocking the frame rate causes audio pass through/switching problems, but then I am not privy to the firmware. If someone were to suggest a connection between the locking and unlocking of frame rates and this audio issue, I would say they are chasing a red herring, but then, in my case, there seems to be a connection. Switching to locking the frame rate on the VP30 has MARKEDLY increased the audio dropout rate I'm experiencing.

dlm10541

02-07-06, 06:09 PM

Nope that sequence does not work on mine so the guide software does affect it.

I am guessing there is a way from the root setup menu where HDMI, audio and output resolutions can be set up.

Thanks tho

aaronwt

02-07-06, 06:58 PM

aaronwt,
do you not use an digital audio cable from your HD-Tivo and/or Sony 975 just for the convenience factor? (ie-only 1 cable from each to the VP30).
or are there other reasons?

Yes, the convenience factor.

shanewalker

02-07-06, 07:42 PM

Quick question to those of you using a Harmony 880 remote w/ their VP30. It seems I'm having some issues with the remote not properly turning the unit on/off during 'activity' switches.

The input switching works fine (I manually programmed in the HDMI inputs, etc. and have had no probs there). I did a manual program of the power toggle, but it still seems to intermittently not work. Anyone else experience this? Question to DVDO--does it send the same signal in power toggle, i.e. 'on' and 'off' from the solo power button are indeed the same code, or do I need to program my remote differently? Thanks.

keenan

02-07-06, 08:48 PM

Josh@dvdo

02-07-06, 10:48 PM

The input switching works fine (I manually programmed in the HDMI inputs, etc. and have had no probs there). I did a manual program of the power toggle, but it still seems to intermittently not work. Anyone else experience this? Question to DVDO--does it send the same signal in power toggle, i.e. 'on' and 'off' from the solo power button are indeed the same code, or do I need to program my remote differently? Thanks.

The Power button on the remote control of the VP30 is different from the HD+ in that it is a discrete 'Power On' button and the Standby button is a discrete 'Power Off'.

pjr

02-08-06, 01:22 AM

I've attached some pictures. It appears that the VGA input is sharper and has more detail, but my wife prefers the HDMI, probably because of the better color. The picture has not been adjusted/calibrated at all, so I'm sure I could improve the picture.

Prior to getting the VP30 I hadn't been thrilled with the picture compared to my old HLN507W, but Eliab is coming next week, so I'm anxious to hear what he thinks. :)

I think it is worth the effort if you have the cable, since it doesn't take a lot of time. I'm anxious to hear what you think. Also, not sure if bypasses the internal scaler on the tv.

I hope I have not missed your post on your calibration. What did Elaib think of your picture with HDMI vs VGA? Please give us a full account of your calibration. :D

hmuller

02-08-06, 08:22 AM

Was wondering if Josh @ DVDO could let me know when the audio glitch software patch is likely to be released. I was really hoping to use my VP30 to switch audio and video but had to switch back to just video until the problems were sorted out. My system is therefore in a very temporary state which is starting to drive the wife nuts because of the wiring mess.

If this is going to take months then I will have to make another plan.

Cheers
H

donjulio

02-08-06, 08:38 AM

dlm1054

Try this, this sequence has to be done in 1 or 2 seconds for it to work.

Turn power off on your 6412, then hit OK/Select, this should get you to another menu. From here you can check several things. Do this sequence from a HD channel and then you can see in one menu is the particular power level received and AGC for the channel you were on.

dlm10541

02-08-06, 09:25 AM

Thanks I will try again tonight.

ailean

02-08-06, 10:16 AM

I fail to see why locking or unlocking the frame rate causes audio pass through/switching problems, but then I am not privy to the firmware. If someone were to suggest a connection between the locking and unlocking of frame rates and this audio issue, I would say they are chasing a red herring, but then, in my case, there seems to be a connection. Switching to locking the frame rate on the VP30 has MARKEDLY increased the audio dropout rate I'm experiencing.

I presume the time taken to process the video stream is different for locked and unlocked so it could be related to the calculations of the audio delay, it maybe a bug in that procedure that's doing something stupid like varying the delay per frame rather then a constant average. Variations might produce gaps in the audio stream which is freaking out the decoder in some amps.

Sounds good anyways. :D

I need to build my av furniture before I can rewire everything to use the audio part of the VP30 so hopefully this will all be sorted before I do. ;)

Only thing I need to sort out at the moment is why whenever I power everything up every day (from the mains) the VP30 always starts with the test pattern on, this added to the amusement of telling the girlfriend how to turn the tv on using the pronto (haven't done all the macros yet) while I was up the ladder fitting trunking for all the PJ wires (at last! :o ).

SJHT

02-08-06, 10:33 AM

Mike N Ike

02-08-06, 01:11 PM

Is anyone having luck with the discrete codes for the Presets (1-4) & 16:9? On my MX3000 remote, these seem to only work sporadically. Most of the time, they do not work at all. However, all the normal IR commands work all the time. SJ

I'm using the IAR3 and IAR4 presets and haven't had any problems yet. But I have not been able to get the discrete code for "Letterbox" to work at all on my MX-850.

Mike

ailean

02-08-06, 03:01 PM

dlm10541

02-08-06, 04:59 PM

shanewalker

02-08-06, 07:18 PM

The Power button on the remote control of the VP30 is different from the HD+ in that it is a discrete 'Power On' button and the Standby button is a discrete 'Power Off'.

Thanks 'keenan' and Josh, I'll make the appropriate changes.

ENNYC

02-09-06, 01:42 AM

SJHT: The "letterbox" IR does not work at all on my Pronto remote. The others seem to do fine.

escon

02-09-06, 03:18 AM

I presume the time taken to process the video stream is different for locked and unlocked so it could be related to the calculations of the audio delay, it maybe a bug in that procedure that's doing something stupid like varying the delay per frame rather then a constant average. Variations might produce gaps in the audio stream which is freaking out the decoder in some amps.

Sounds good anyways. :D

Sounds good to me too ailean. :) Will take note if it happens more with DTS/DD sound than plain PCM. Maybe others that are having audio drop out problems could too. Maybe have a listen to the analog L/R audio channels as well - least amout of digital stuff in the path through the VP30.

Jesswin

02-09-06, 03:34 AM

Is anyone having luck with the discrete codes for the Presets (1-4) & 16:9? On my MX3000 remote, these seem to only work sporadically. Most of the time, they do not work at all. However, all the normal IR commands work all the time. SJ

I am having similar problems with Discrete IR's I sent to Logitech to load for my Harmony 880. I sent them the codes for Display Profiles, Audio Inputs, and AIR presets. When I use them, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. At times they will work for one or two keypresses and then stop working. At this time I don't know how much troubleshooting they will be willing to try on their end.

Interestingly, the DVDO codes from their database work fine as do learned codes from the VP30 remote.

collinp

02-09-06, 03:46 AM

I am having similar problems with Discrete IR's I sent to Logitech to load for my Harmony 880. I sent them the codes for Display Profiles, Audio Inputs, and AIR presets. When I use them, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. At times they will work for one or two keypresses and then stop working. At this time I don't know how much troubleshooting they will be willing to try on their end.

I dusted the XP box off to teach the Pronto to teach my Harmony discrete aspect ratio IR codes... whew... I was happy to find that each code worked great... the first time. The second time no go using either the Harmony or the Pronto. I even got up real close to the VP30. I watched Tivo for a while and now the discretes are working fine with either remote. My experience so far coupled with other reports is not encouraging.

- Collin

aaronwt

02-09-06, 08:36 AM

The Power button on the remote control of the VP30 is different from the HD+ in that it is a discrete 'Power On' button and the Standby button is a discrete 'Power Off'.

So the button that is labeled "Standby" is not a standby button? It turns the unit off?

barrygordon

02-09-06, 08:51 AM

In many modern pieces of electronic gear the unit is always "Powered up" as long as it is plugged in. There are two states to the unit when it is plugged in to power.

1) Powered - which should be termed fully functional and processing all datum
2) Standby - which should be termed partially functional, generally with most control circuitry working but not processing datum other than RS232 or IR inputs.

Think of standby as a screen saver. What the unit will do in standby depends on whet the unit is designed to do. E.g. a DVR will record a program. Very often the electrical power requirements of the unit either in Powered or Standby is about the same (Amps, watts)

shanewalker

02-09-06, 12:55 PM

I noticed after reprogramming my Harmony as instructed (i.e. 'On' - Power / 'Off' - Standby), that it appeared to function "intelligently", perhaps detecting power on the HDMI at the TV end, even when it itself wasn't in use/fed an active signal. In short, when switching activities and continuing to watch the TV even when not viewing sources through the VP30, it would go into 'standby'; when I shut down the system, it would do a full power 'off'.

Maybe I was imagining things--point is, the remote and the VP30 now work together as I'd hoped.

bradesp

02-10-06, 11:34 AM

We should have non-linear stretch available in a software update for the iScan VP30 within 3 months.

Josh,

Thanks! As soon as this is feature is available I'll be purchasing a unit.

bradesp

SJHT

02-10-06, 08:36 PM

I am having similar problems with Discrete IR's I sent to Logitech to load for my Harmony 880. I sent them the codes for Display Profiles, Audio Inputs, and AIR presets. When I use them, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. At times they will work for one or two keypresses and then stop working. At this time I don't know how much troubleshooting they will be willing to try on their end.

Interestingly, the DVDO codes from their database work fine as do learned codes from the VP30 remote.

This is exactly what I'm seeing with my setup. I have an individual IR emitter for the VP30 and all the other commands work perfectly. SJ

barrygordon

02-11-06, 09:00 AM

The following is from the DVDO site FAQ list:

"...The HDMI inputs can accept audio, if the video signal is on the same input. If the incoming HDMI signal has HDCP, then the iScan VP30 can not output this audio using the optical or coaxial digital outputs, only the HDMI output. ..."

I understand this to mean:

1) If the source is only connected to the VP30 via HDMI carrying both audio and video, and the Video has the HDCP flag on, and the selected audio input for that HDMI input is HDMI, then no audio will be delivered by the VP30 to either the Toslink or coaxial audio outputs. Also on some test versions of the firmware, the HDMI input selection will not be available (That is good if it can not be used anyway, you should not allow it)

2) If the source is both connected to the VP30 via HDMI carrying both audio and video, and directly to one of the the audio inputs (audio 1-4) and the HDMI connected Video has the HDCP flag on, and the selected audio input for that HDMI input is the appropriate audio input for that source then the appropriate lip synced audio will appear at the VP30 Toslink and Coaxial outputs independent of the state of the HDCP content flag from the source.

If the above is true this implies that If the source supplies HDMI output with audio and HDCP indication then the separate audio output of the source (if one is supplied) should always be used as the audio source for the VP30.

Could someone from DVDO (Josh, Dale?) please comment on the above as it explains certain configuration questions I have been having.

Also on the Info screen, if the HDCP phrase appears with the source input selection does that mean that the source is REQUIRING HDCP confirmation for that signal?

RichB

02-11-06, 09:18 AM

It looks like Audio/Video carried on the same HDMI cable for HT requires an preamp/receiver as the destination so that it can take the audio and pass the video to the display.

Therefore, use sources with separate audio and video outputs.

Thank you DRM morons :)

-- Rich

ailean

02-11-06, 09:45 AM

Re: Rich & Barry

I think somewhere in this thread we had estabished that audio passed in on the HDMI would now be output on the Opt/Coax of the VP30.

I recall this being a very late change just before release thanks to a change in the licensing of the device type. The FAQ in general hasn't been updated since way before release day (I think ;) ).

Alas I have no HDMI sources just yet to test but it should be easy for Barry to check out (either use analogue video out of the VP30 or set the digital video out to "No DHCP", switch to a HDMI input and if the curtain closes it's HDCP and if you can still hear the source then audio pass thru is still working.

dlm10541

02-11-06, 02:31 PM

I can confirm that HDMI audio is passed via HDMI and digital out even if HDCP signal.

The only time I see the HDCP screen is briefly while my JVC 5U DVHS player is trying to synch up---I blame that on the JVC since I never see it on other HDCP material or devices

aaronwt

02-12-06, 06:50 PM

Yes! HDMI audio works great wth my Sony 975 dvd player and my HDTiVos. I am using the VP30 optical output into my Denon 3805 receiver. It definitely works well with 7 discrete channels from my Sony 975 when playing discs back with DTS 6.1 discrete.

derekjsmith

02-13-06, 01:20 PM

Any word on the FW update for the 48hz stutter? Most movies it only happens every few minutes but on Brothers Grimm it was all the time.

barrygordon

02-13-06, 04:06 PM

Thanks for all of the replies on the HDMI audio. For the time being it is just easier for me to bypass the VP30 for audio and go directly to the Lexicon audio processor from each input. I have just enough toslink/coaxial inputs to do so.

I am using the curtain feature. When ever I start the sequence to switch inputs, I close the curtain and delay 2 seconds. I then start the input switch. I then delay a period of time based upon the input device (3-5 seconds for my devices) and open the curtain. It really looks very cool/professional. The curtains close and then fade to black. A few seconds later they brighten to light gray and open. I still have a problem with my SA8300HD syncing up and then going to snow and then finally putting out a clear pic. I am not sure if it is the DVR or the VP30. I will play with that next week. Tomorrow is the day I drop DirecTV and go to all cable service. The cable in my area is superior to Directv, is all digital and gives me better Internet BW. I will be looking into VoiP as that will significantly reduce my monthly bill for AVIT (Audio/Video/Internet/Telephone).

Scott Gammans

02-13-06, 05:27 PM

Heh... I like your services acronym, tho' I'd list them in the descending order that they're important to me: VITA!

barrygordon

02-13-06, 06:21 PM

I thought of VITA, but that is a registered brand or trademark of a food company. I also thought about TIVA but too close to TiVo.

pjr

02-15-06, 05:25 PM

Is everyone who has the new lens seeing a big difference in the distance the remote will work? I had to have some other work on mine which is great, but the remote distance is not much different and I am wondering if they forgot that.

GerryWaz

02-15-06, 06:59 PM

John Williams

02-15-06, 07:27 PM

Ditto for me too -- I went from about a dead-level 3-foot remote range back to what I had with my iScan HD -- 10+ feet from a seated position.

-John

aaronwt

02-15-06, 07:30 PM

How wide of an angle can be used? My remote works fine at a distance but if I'm not in line with the VP30 it won't receive the commands.

GerryWaz

02-16-06, 03:02 AM

How wide of an angle can be used? My remote works fine at a distance but if I'm not in line with the VP30 it won't receive the commands.

I'm not the best for this type of reckoning, but I figure I'm about 15-20 degrees off axis, 12 feet away and two feet above my unit and I now have no problems with the remote and new lens.

Somewhere between that and I'd say 30 degrees (or going back another 4-5 feet) is where I lose control with the remote.

Like John said, it seems just like having control of the old HD+ again . . .

Best!

- Gerry

danielo

02-16-06, 05:09 AM

Hai,

A warning on a bug/range of bugs i found in the vp30 software. The vp30 keeps settings on the state of the curtain and test signals in memory. For some reason it is possible to confuse it and get a whole range of weird results like not having a curtain/test overlay at all (buttons just don't do anything anymore) or the values result in weird effects like the test screens not matching the output signal anymore (making for example pixel mapping impossible) ive had this several times last night i got it so confused the testn signals looked to be based on a 4000x2000 output (only showed like 3 colorbars and a huge pixels).

Anyway these problems can be solved with a factory reset so its not a big deal but if you see any weird problems with curtains/test signals keep in mind it might be confused and needs a reset.

Daniel.

barrygordon

02-16-06, 08:42 AM

I have seen the curtain malfunction several times and have reported it to DVDO. I use the curtain a lot in my setup (see previous posts to this thread) and would really like it to work reliably. Having been a software professional for over 45 years I know how tough it is to get everything right, but it can be done (although sometimes it just costs too much in non life support systems).

I don't anthromorphize (assign human characteristics to non human things), and confusion, while an apt description, sort of makes one think thats has to be the way it is. I would like DVDO to fix all reported bugs, and I assume that is their intent. It has been way too long with the problems that exist today between software releases. I do not consider a factory reset (reboot and set to initial values) a correct solution at any time.

flyingvee

02-16-06, 09:20 AM

Just a reminder to Josh and Dale (and whoever fixes thing at dvdo) - had a short power outage last night, and upon firing up my Samsung 165 last night to watch HD Olympics, it would not turn on. This is the third of fourth time this has occured - as soon as I disconnected the DVI->Hdmi cable from the back of the VP30, it fired up just fine (direct into my lcd screen.)

Have no idea how much trouble I'll have to go into to get it to work with the 30 and my crt tonight - honestly didn't feel like fighting it last night. But this HAS happened more than once.

Any ideas what could be causing this? Will probably get a dedicated UPS for the vp30 - but that is kinda a pain, not to mention additional expense, just to get a 2k processor to work reliably.

oferlaor

02-16-06, 05:51 PM

How do you guys use curtain (it doesn't really do much except for show that animation)?

the new lens made the unit much more responsive for me at reasonable distances (it would flake out before on more than 3m). Id didn't bother me much before, but with the modification, it's easy to see the improvement.

barrygordon

02-16-06, 05:56 PM

search back in this thread I described completely how I use Curtain. It is very nice visually. It would be real nice if the animation was a "stage curtain"

danielo

02-16-06, 06:10 PM

How do you guys use curtain (it doesn't really do much except for show that animation)?

I don't use it but like barry im a programmer so when i got the problems with the test signals i was trying to figure out what was wrong. The fact that also the curtains are gone then but the osd worked was a hint it as related to the drawing of these layers that somehow seem to be gone. The fact that a reset returned them and the weird sizes of the test patterns seem to make me feel that somehow the x and y size they calculate based on the output res. gets changed (they clearly not in sync anymore).

The only reason i posted this that to give heads up that if you have weird effects with the test signals do a reset since it would be hell to get pixel perfect if your pixels are 2x2 :)

Daniel.

choddo2006

02-17-06, 08:35 PM

Just got my VP-30, very very happy with it but one thing I do have an issue with is lag in videogames. Got a PS2, xbox and gamecube all of which I use s-video with (UK consoles prior to the 360 generally only do interlaced over component)

I'm currently outputting over RGBHV to a Panny PHD8 at 1024x768. What's the best res to output to the panel that minimises processing time for 480i and 576i signals? Plugging the console directly into the s-video board on the panel definitely reduces the lag noticeably but the picture suffers of course plus having to mess with the inputs behind the panel is not good.

(I'm assuming Profiles can help me here so I don't tread all over my settings for my DVD & digibox component inputs?)

Thanks

flyingvee

02-18-06, 12:44 AM

What about using the component outputs of your ps2 - I'm doing that, and don't see that much lag? I mostly do racers, (Wipeout Fusion) - it goes pretty fast and seems fine - or maybe the lag matches my builtin eye to hand lag.

choddo2006

02-18-06, 04:59 AM

aHA! So not having it on 72Hz lock (for the 60Hz input) would be a good idea then :whoops: that'll teach me for trying it at 1am

Still a little lag on 60Hz lock but a couple of games of Monkey Ball soon tuned me into it.

mskreis

02-18-06, 10:44 PM

My equipment is located in a separate room. I would like to use a DVI computer monitor in this room to make adjustments without having to turn on my projector. Is there a reasonable way to accomplish this (ie having 2 displays connected to the VP30)?

Robert D

02-19-06, 12:40 AM

barrygordon

02-19-06, 10:00 AM

Try gefen.com. They make a 1x2 distribution amp that takes in HDMI and puts out two DVI signals. They also have other variants

RichB

02-19-06, 10:07 AM

Try gefen.com. They make a 1x2 distribution amp that takes in HDMI and puts out two DVI signals. They also have other variants

I was also interested in a DVI distribution AMP. I saw the gefen product, but it did not mention HDCP nor how it hadles EDIT. Namely, which monitorn supplies then EDID information.

Do you have any experience with these products?

-- Rich

barrygordon

02-19-06, 12:40 PM

I have experience with their HDMI 2:1 Switcher (two HDMI in to 1 HDMI out) with optical Toslink Audio. Worked well for me. Anyone interested in buying it?

I suggest you call Gefen tech support. They are very knowledgable on their product line and can answer your questions easily.

It is an interesting question: Lets say they only check one output port for HDCP compliance, then it would seem one could easily defeat the HDCP DRM rules by connecting a recorder to the other output port; ergo that can not be the case.

I would suspect to be proper for HDCP compliance they would have to require both monitors to be HDCP compliant or they must drop the signal to a non compliant monitor if only one was compliant. With regards to EDID it would only make sense that both monitors would have to run at the same resolutions/framerates, etc. other wise they would need the ability to scale within the DA.

All of the above is conjecture

ailean

02-19-06, 01:29 PM

Where I've seen it mentioned they've typically got a primary output which is used for EDID so yes both displays need to support the same res. You maybe better off with a switch if your PJ needs an odd res (which the screen couldn't show).

But be aware most computer monitors don't have HDCP support on there DVI inputs so if you are using HDMI inputs to the VP30 then you might as well use the RGBHV ouput of the VP30 to a pc monitor.

Josh@dvdo

02-20-06, 07:15 PM

The Beta software for the iScan VP30 is available on our website:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp30.php

These features are added:

Added support for HDMI compliance as a Repeater -This expands the compatibility with HDMI devices

Added Functionality to ‘Enter’ Key-The ‘Enter’ key now closes sub-menus that have items that require confirmation (i.e. saving a ‘Display Profile’).

Added SXGA timing in EDID -This feature allows a user to send the iScan VP30 an SXGA resolution signal from a device which uses EDID information to determine available output resolutions, like a PC.

Added Indicator on the OSD -An indicator has been added to the OSD showing when a control item requires confirmation.

Improved HDCP Performance -The HDCP performance has been improved when the display is powered down and powered back on.

Infoframes on HDMI Automatically Determine Frame Aspect Ratio -The user can have the Frame Aspect Ratio chosen automatically based on the information provided over the HDMI connection. With some sources, this information may be incorrect, so the user can choose to turn off this feature in the ‘HDMI Config’ submenu, under ‘Input Adjust’.

Infoframes on HDMI Automatically Determine Input Color Space -The user can have the Input Color Space chosen automatically based on the information provided over the HDMI connection. With some sources, this information may be incorrect, so the user can choose to turn off this feature in the ‘HDMI Config’ submenu, under ‘Input Adjust’.

This software version also addresses and corrects the following bugs:

Switching from PCM to Bitstream (Dolby Digital/dts) -The audio is muted when format changes happen or when the format is unknown. This addresses the reported audio issues. The VP30 was occasionally incorrectly outputting audio marked valid when it was receiving invalid audio.

Incorrect Color Decoder Conversion Used with HD Sources -The iScan VP30 would use the wrong color decoder when sent an HD signal in most situations.
Thank you to Greg Rogers for his valued feedback on this issue. :)

1080i input/1080i Output Flicker -With a 1080i input and the output set to 1080i there was excessive flicker.

Screen Flicker with 1080i/50 Input Signal -With some 1080i/50 sources the image would have flicker

48Hz/72Hz Source-Locked Output Judder -Occasionally with 48Hz/72Hz source-locked output there would be a period with significant motion judder.

Output Format Selection -When changing the output format, some settings would not change from their previous settings to the default settings for the new output format.

Switching from PC to Video Levels -Sometimes, switching from PC to Video levels would result in a ‘blue screen’.

H/V Sync Polarity -Regardless of the sync polarity setting, the sync was always H+/V+.

Improved ‘Curtain’ Function -If the user closes the curtain and opens it again before it finishes, a line maybe observed.

Negative Integers and Floating Point Numbers through Serial Automation -On some controls these values were not processed correctly.

Default Serial Port Rate -The default serial port rate has been changed to 19200 bps.

Josh@dvdo

02-20-06, 07:37 PM

Don't miss Ofer's review of the iScan VP30 at Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, too.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/dvdo-iscan-vp30-video-processor-2-2006-part-1.html

AndyN

02-20-06, 07:44 PM

Sweet. No more judder at 48Hz.

02-20-06, 08:14 PM

Don't miss Ofer's review of the iScan VP30 at Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, too.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/dvdo-iscan-vp30-video-processor-2-2006-part-1.html

Hi Josh@dvdo,

Would it be possible at some point to implement auto detection on Input AAR and scale it accordingly to the preset OAR? Other words, if AAR is 23.5, then it would trigger 23.5 OAR preset, if AAR is 1.78, then output would trigger OAR to 1.78 preset...you get the idea. Since there is only one HDMI output, this make sense, no need to toggle.

Also, we could use another component output on the VP40, yes 40 :) since folks generally have more than one output medium and only one of those has HDMI.

Cheers,

Steve

gregr

02-20-06, 08:26 PM

Josh I am using DVI output which is RGB
for input I have it set to auto or I can select RGB, both are identical
this problem only shows itself when inputting HDMI RGB colorspace sources and outputing via DVI
I have 422 or 444 HDMI sources and they are fine when outputting DVI

Gary,

The version 1.03 firmware will fix your HDMI RGB input color problem. Sorry I couldn't comment on this earlier before this firmware was released.

I will have a review of the iScan VP30 in the next issue of Widescreen Review, which mails to subscribers in mid-March.

AndyN

02-20-06, 09:16 PM

Josh@dvdo

02-20-06, 10:04 PM

Andy - I think you are referring to the 'Pan' feature on the input. Both the 'Pan' and 'Shift' features work the same way.

On the Input side, if the user has zoomed the image, making the image effectively larger than the viewable area (the screen) then the user can 'Pan' around that image. The default is that you are at the center of the image, so if you were to press amd hold the up button and then the left button, what you have on screen is the top left of the image.

On the Output side, if the user has chosen a different 'Display AR' and 'Screen AR', or used 'Underscan, then the user can 'Shift' the image horizontally, vertically or both. If the 'Display AR' is set to 4:3 and the 'Screen AR' is set to 16:9 then the user can shift the output image vertically and not horizontally. It is like having a rectangle (16:9) moving up and down in a larger rectangle (16:12=4:3). If the user is using 'Underscan' then the image can be shifted vertically and horizontally. I use this myself on a CRT-RP which will lose sync if I shift the image in the Output Format advanced menu, but because I need a '43' on 'Underscan' I have plenty of shift available.

John P.

02-20-06, 10:51 PM

Default Serial Port Rate -The default serial port rate has been changed to 19200 bps.

Maybe I'm stupid (well - there is no 'maybe' about it I guess...), but I noticed that on the VP30 update page, at the bottom there, it says under Trouble shooting:

Baud Rate: Should be set to 57600 on both TeraTerm Pro and the iScan VP30

Is this right?

AndyN

02-20-06, 11:09 PM

aaronwt

02-20-06, 11:11 PM

Just a quick word of warning for owners of sensitive audio processors. Not a big deal, but if you had a problem with clicks and pops from synch losses just make sure that AFTER you update to turn down/off the audio. When all the settings reset from the update the default off audio setting caused my EAD to go wild and click and pop wildly. BUT good news is after you choose the audio priorities the prior problems are all gone. No more clicks and pops with synch losses.

To DVDO's credit they solved the click problem almost immediately following our complaints almost a month a ago.

Thanks again guys. Both of my comments have been addressed.

Oh btw, has anyone noticed if the "SHIFT" function in the ouput display not "working"? It's lit but everytime I use that or the horiz/vertical it just does nothing. I think on the input section theres a similar funtion that's available but also does not "work". Is it supposed to do anything?

Andy

I wasn't having problems before but now I don't get any audio from my HDTiVos when I'm in the menus. It worked before but no audio now. I still have the DD audio from the channels over the HDMI but now there is no audio when I'm in the menus. And of course I had no problems before but I guess it could be worse. Everything else seems to be fine except for the auto AR. Is it a new feature? If not I must have had it off before because for 10 minutes I couldn't figure out why my picture from my DVD player was zoomed in but once I disabled auto AR it was fine.

Mike N Ike

02-20-06, 11:25 PM

Infoframes on HDMI Automatically Determine Frame Aspect Ratio -The user can have the Frame Aspect Ratio chosen automatically based on the information provided over the HDMI connection. With some sources, this information may be incorrect, so the user can choose to turn off this feature in the ‘HDMI Config’ submenu, under ‘Input Adjust’.

Mike

aaronwt

02-20-06, 11:36 PM

So it is a new feature! At least I know I'm not going crazy. I was really starting to get pissed when I couldn't get the picture to fill the screen with the Avia Overscan test pattern. :o

Josh@dvdo

02-20-06, 11:47 PM

So it is a new feature! At least I know I'm not going crazy. I was really starting to get pissed when I couldn't get the picture to fill the screen with the Avia Overscan test pattern. :o

In our next Production software version this feature will probably be defaulted to 'Off'. Once you turn it off with the Beta software though you are good to go.

escon

02-21-06, 03:44 AM

John P,

This is done for the convenience of users with RS-232 automation systems - however, if you attempted to update the VP30 @ 19.2kbps instead of 57.6kbps, it would be the difference of a 30 minute update as opposed to a 10 minute update (respectively). Customers that are running v1.00 (original factory release) will have the serial port rate set where it was before it left the factory (that is - the factory with those over-zealous screw-driver robots... :D )

As this is a function that will be reset after the update - it'll save you a good 20 minutes of update time by checking this before getting started.

Cheers!

-Tim

Hi Tim/Josh,

I upgraded the FW successfully at the 57.6kbps, but it took 2 goes to get a successful transfer. Just for others that maybe having some difficulty, I found out that I had to "press any button on the VP30 FPD" at the right time to get the transfer to restart, after the initial attempt failed and the VP30 reported the error message on its FPD.

Interestingly, the transfer program reported a corrupt file at the same time, although on the second attempt, both the VP30 and transfer program were happy with the same file. I take it that you have defaulted the baud rate to 19.2kbps to avoid data error rates during transfer? Would like to keep it at 57.6kbps myself to have a speedier update. Guess I can set that on the VP30, but it would of course revert back to 19.2kbps should I do a factory reset. Just that I expect a couple more updates over the next few months :)

So far so good, although I've noticed a couple of audio dropouts again. Will keep a close eye, or rather ear on it for the next couple of days to be sure that it is not the broadcaster and will report back.

ailean

02-21-06, 05:37 AM

The Beta software for the iScan VP30 is available on our website:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp30.php

......

Added SXGA timing in EDID -This feature allows a user to send the iScan VP30 an SXGA resolution signal from a device which uses EDID information to determine available output resolutions, like a PC.

......

Thanks DVDO crew! :)

Now if only I hadn't just unpluged, pulled all the cables and moved the HTPC in prep for new furniture. :rolleyes:

Have to see if I can manage this from the laptop.

The above might help the only major issue I've had so far which was that with the PC set to SXGA via DVI to the VP30 which was set to SXGA via RGBHV to my temp PC CRT I'd just get garbage on the screen (just used 720p PC output in the end).

oferlaor

02-21-06, 08:35 AM

John Williams

02-21-06, 11:23 AM

Quick question on the update: Will installing the firmware erase all, some or none of my current configuration settings?

Tim: Good to see you here! Go easy on the screw-driving, eh? Try the decaf....

:)

-John

barrygordon

02-21-06, 11:31 AM

I believe the answer is that loading new firmware resets to factory defaults, so the answer is yes you loose everything.

John Williams

02-21-06, 11:34 AM

Barry,

I thought so. Time to whip out the notebook and jot settings down before I drag the dusty old PC out of the attic to do the update.

Thanks!

-John

Gary Murrell

02-21-06, 01:39 PM

Gary,

The version 1.03 firmware will fix your HDMI RGB input color problem. Sorry I couldn't comment on this earlier before this firmware was released.

I will have a review of the iScan VP30 in the next issue of Widescreen Review, which mails to subscribers in mid-March.

:eek: Sweet, thanks, I knew I hadn't lost my mind ;)

something indeed was very wrong with the colors

Thanks DVDO

now all we need are color decoder adjustments and gamma greyscale and then this processor is perfection :)

-Gary

gregr

02-21-06, 04:00 PM

... something indeed was very wrong with the colors

I had better mention that during testing of version 1.03 I have seen the YCbCr output use the wrong color encoding matrix. That occurred after switching input and output color spaces, and switching input and output formats. I haven't been able to figure out how to force that bug to occur, but removing and restoring the power fixed the problem.

escon

02-21-06, 05:03 PM

I had better mention that during testing of version 1.03 I have seen the YCbCr output use the wrong color encoding matrix. That occurred after switching input and output color spaces, and switching input and output formats. I haven't been able to figure out how to force that bug to occur, but removing and restoring the power fixed the problem.

I should also add my first experience with the new FW. I had complete audio loss on all sources. I have emailed DVDO with the relevant details under which this occurs on my setup. Loss can be restored and is triggered in my case by having DD audio on COM1. Using PCM instead on this input (audio 2 toslink) seems not to trigger the problem.

In brief, the problem can be reliably demonstrated/repeated by having COM1 input set to DD out of the PVR. If then you switch to VID1, which uses the STEREO audio input in my setup, there is no sound. Fiddling by selecting the other audio sources on VID1 will bring it back on. Alternatively, going back to COM1 and inputting PCM instead of DD, will bring the sound back on it as well as the VID1 source. Leaving the audio as PCM on COM1 allows me to switch between sources without loss of audio on any of them. Have yet to confirm if any of my other input sources that carry DD will also cause the same problem.

If anyone else has upgraded to the new FW, could you please try this out to see if you can also replicate this problem. This is a new problem that was not evident with the previous FW.

P.S.

It's a shame really that the VP30 has so many audio problems. My reason for upgrading to the VP30 was the need to have extra digital inputs + one extra audio input. This I got with the VP30. But, I would have been quite happy with a non-HDCP version, i.e HDMI inputs just to be the equivalent of DVI inputs like the HD+. I wonder if it's in DVDO's interest to produce a beta test FW version that is closest to the HD+, in other words dispensing with the extra code that deals with HDCP protection and blocking any digital sources that have HDCP on them. It may just possibly help out in figuring out where the audio problem(s) lie.