Hi Tim :)

Upgrade to new firmware was uneventful with all input devices working as expected. My prior problems were with audio which were fixed by an interim firmware update except for audio drop out over HDMI (primarily on DCT 6412 cable DVR).

This reoccurred again after the update as I paused DVR playback and then hit play. Lost audio over HDMI but coax digital was OK. Reboot corrected problem--for now. This DVR has always caused most of my audio problems. I have never lost audio mid program but only when changing channels or controlling DVR playback.

One good thing- I did not lose my brightness settings on reboot. I did prior to the update. Thanks!!

Don

I wonder if it's in DVDO's interest to produce a beta test FW version that is closest to the HD+, in other words dispensing with the extra code that deals with HDCP protection (that is to say, not dealing at all or letting through any digital sources that have HDCP on them). It may just possibly help out in figuring out where the audio problem(s) lie.

I don't think that the HDMI licensing rules, would even allow them to do such a thing.

I don't think that the HDMI licensing rules, would even allow them to do such a thing.

No, note that I'm asking to have all HDCP sources blocked - not let through. What I'm looking for is a way of establishing if the HDCP part of the code is the problem. Simply blocking any HDCP source, rather than examining it, may simplify the code. Remember that the HD+ had HDCP throughput but NONE of the current audio problems. We have gone backwards with the VP30 in a big way with audio from the HD+.

Although I never had audio shreeks and noises with fw 1.00 I did experience a half second dropout of audio across all inputs happening roughly 1 every 2 hours. This is still present in fw 1.03 as it happened twice last night after the upgrade. So basically if watching a movie there was a good chance somewhere randomly it would loose audio for a half second. Rewinding the scene where it happens does not reproduce the dropout so its not scene related I also noticed that it even happens when using the analog inputs. If I bypass the audio in the VP30 and connect direct to amp then the problem is gone.

My VP30 outputs 720p/60 to my panny plasma (I cant do NR via HDMI) and my sources range from 1080i/60 (xbox 360) to NTSC/PAL via my old Tag DVD player and SKY. All my inputs are experiencing this dropout so trying to find the culprit is proving difficult. I currently only use component and svideo inputs as I dont have any HDMI sources yet (come on SkyHD!). Output is via Coax out and inputs are a mixture of Optical/Coax and Analog in.

Any ideas?

Had to dig out an old laptop (that had serial!) and wait for the battery to charge a bit but managed to load 1.03 okay (forgot how slow serial flashing was ;) ).

Didn't have much time to play as SG1 was about to start (and I don't think the gf would have put up with more interuptions to quality SG1/Choc time :D ).

Did manage to do a little rewiring during adverts to finally connect some audio up to the VP30 and didn't notice any issues (only analogue thou).

I'll try to have a look at some of the little glitches I've spotted to see if this helps but won't be able to wire it all in properly for a few weeks till the new cabs are in place.

Out of interest what sort of audio ADCs are attached to the analogue input? I take it not 24b/192khz Burr-Browns. ;)

-Just out of curiosity; why is RS-232 still used for communication between a PC and units such as the VP30 (and receivers + +)?

It seems like such an outdated technology?

I guess an RS-232 connector is good for backward compatibility, but why only RS-232 ?

RS232 is a reliable two way communications medium that is ubiquitous. All PC's have it. It is actually simple to use and easy to program. It can be programmed to provide absoulte feedback and has been used in many mission critical systems.

-Just out of curiosity; why is RS-232 still used for communication between a PC and units such as the VP30 (and receivers + +)?

It seems like such an outdated technology?

I guess an RS-232 connector is good for backward compatibility, but why only RS-232 ?

Some devices do have USB sockets instead, most are just USB serial interfaces but some are USB host sockets that can read firmware/jpegs/mp3 etc from a USB pendrive.

RS-232 is just very common and all sorts of simple devices and home control systems, it does the job and that's what engineers are happy with. ;)

Time to whip out the notebook and jot settings down before I drag the dusty old PC out of the attic to do the update.
The DVDO web site has a nice PDF "HD/HD+ Installation Worksheet" that you can download and print and use to record all your settings. They don't have one specifically for the VP30 yet, but many of the settings are the same.

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_pro_man.php

Any idea why I can't play the DVE on my combo? Every time I put the disk in, I notied the display on my DVD player says 576I (when it's been configured for 480i) and the VP30 no longer recognizes the input until I power everything down and try again. After the powercyle (including pulling out the plugs), the DVE disk still won't read. I tried restoring factory settings for TV (Sony 60XBR1), DVD, and the VP30 but no luck. Any thoughts? This is the only disk that I have problems with, everything else looks great.

Any idea why I can't play the DVE on my combo? Every time I put the disk in, I notied the display on my DVD player says 576I (when it's been configured for 480i) and the VP30 no longer recognizes the input until I power everything down and try again. After the powercyle (including pulling out the plugs), the DVE disk still won't read. I tried restoring factory settings for TV (Sony 60XBR1), DVD, and the VP30 but no luck. Any thoughts? This is the only disk that I have problems with, everything else looks great.

Sounds like you have a PAL (50Hz) version of DVE. Have you set the VP30 frame rate to 50Hz unlock 59.94Hz on the output configuation menu? (This is normally the default setup). By the look of it, your Sony will not handle 50Hz and the VP30 needs to up convert the 50Hz frame rate to 60Hz. Can you put the DVD player straight into the TV and if so, what happens?

I'm having a problem here. I have my Sony 975 DVD player connected and since the firmware update it won't pass 5.1/6.1 over the HDMI. It is only outputting PCM stereo. What changed with the new firmware that is not allowing the 5.1DD/6.1DTS to pass over the HDMI with my Sony 975.
I guess I'm going to have to go back to the old firmware. :(

I went back to 1.00 and it worked again. I'm going to flash to 1.03 again just to see if there was some weird quirk because I could have sworn I was getting 5.1 over the HDMI when I first upgraded to 1.03 but maybe I was mistaken.

Definitely something with the 1.03 firmware. My Sony 975 will not pass the DD/DTS over the HDMI with this version. What could be causing this problem? I'll definitely have to stay at v1.00 until this is fixed

I've modified DVDO's old HD+ worksheet to incorporate all the settings for the VP30. I believe I've got everything in here, but if I'm missing something please let me know.

The only thing I know offhand this worksheet doesn't account for are multiple resolutions on a single input that may require different calibrations (for example a Component or HDMI input that sometimes receives 480i and other times receives 480p or HD signals). If you need space for that, it shouldn't be too difficult to insert.

If the DVDO reps want to borrow this for thier own usage or distribution, you have my blessing.

Enjoy.

I wasn't having problems before but now I don't get any audio from my HDTiVos when I'm in the menus. It worked before but no audio now. I still have the DD audio from the channels over the HDMI but now there is no audio when I'm in the menus. And of course I had no problems before but I guess it could be worse.
I have my HD TiVo hooked up via HDMI, and am using that as the audio connection with v1.03. At first I had the same problem you did -- I was not getting sound in the menus, but seemed to be getting sound when I watched programs. However, last night I tried to play a non-HD show (horror of horrors, I know) and I wasn't getting any sound from it either. I fiddled a bit, ended up switching my audio source for HDMI1 to ... stereo, I think, and then back to HDMI1. After that (so far) I was getting sound from TiVo menus and standard def shows.

I went back to version 1.0 so now I get sound on the HDTiVos in the menus now. I never tried switching the audio sources in the VP30 though. With the DD/DTS crippled with v1.03 and my Sony 975 DVD player I won't be able to upgrade the firmware unless that is fixed. I'm not going to listen to the DVDs in stereo and I have no desire to connect a separate optical/coaxial cable from the Sony to the VP30 since that was one of the reasons for getting the VP30 to have only one cable connection with HDMI to my components. I hope I don't have any VP30 HDMi problems when I get this HD-DVD player from Toshiba next month.

I just hooked up my VP30 to my Marantz VP12-S2 via an HDMI to DVI cable with the output set at 720p-60.

I have run into a couple of issues (s/w version 1.03):

1) A few times when I have switched to the first HDMI input (Denon DVD-3910) the output picture continually cycles from an on-screen 2:35 picture appropriately placed, then it moves to show the same frame at the top of the viewing area with 'garbage' underneath, and then expands to fill the frame. This repeats without end. A few times I have had an all red screen when switching to this input. Cycling power on the VP30 seems to cure this.

2) I have my Motorola 6412 (Phase II) connected by a DVI->HDMI cable. From this connection I have been unable to get a signal. I'll exchange the 6412 and see if the problem is there...

3) Connecting the same 6412 via component, I get a great picture as long as the 6412 is on a high def channel and feeding either 720p or 1080i. When I go to a standard def channel and present the VP30 with 480i the active picture is "left justified" with garbage filling the screen on the right side. If I use the 16:9 preset, the picture stretches to fill the frame (distorted of course) and when I select 4:3, I see the picture area move to be left justified, appropriately sized, with "snapshots" left on the right hand side of the frame.

4) I've sent a couple of documentation & serial control issues via e-mail & haven't received any acknowledgement for over a week...

Mark, What serial control issues have you seen?

Three issues:

1) The "Query Serial Number" command is documented as an "A3" in section 6.2, but the query with "A3" is the request for baud rate in section 4.5 (Sending the A3 in a query returns a packet that does indicate the current port setting, not the serial number and mask).

2) The documentation on the mask settings as to which settings actually create a mask bit of "Input Adjust", "Input Aspect Ratio", and "Input source" are ambiguous (at best) and since I haven't been able to send a "Query Serial Number", I haven't been able to confirm which settings actually set which mask bits.

3) The only way to get to the curtain is via the remote code. I'd rather have a "curtain on" and "curtain off" command to guarantee that I stay in sync.

Everything else works and I have a functional CQC (Charmed Quark Controller) device driver that is running well. It is less efficient than it could be as it polls all fields on every poll cycle since I don't know if changes have occurred.

I wrote my own driver for the VP30 as I built my own HT control system from scratch. Similar to CQC but having no relationship. I too would like a curtain open and close command as I use the curtains whenever I change inputs.

I always have used A3 as the baud rate command for query and setting, but you are correct as it is also listed as the serial number and mask command. Just not important to me I guess

The serial number query is very useful to keep polling overhead low, so that certainly needs to be fixed. Existing drivers for the iScan HD that are being moved forward would very commonly use that query. It can keep the time spent on polling very low, allowing outgoing commands to have almost instant access to the serial port. And particularly if you are controlling the box from some kind of system that cannot support the 56K baud rate, the serial number query would very much help them minimize polling latency.

I do not understand, why have a general poll? I do not run the VP30 that way. When I want to change something I change it. If I want to know a parameters value I would query it (I have found no need to do that). My experience is that the VP30 does not change things (parameter values) arbitrarily (requiring a poll for state, in the absence of an event driven notification).

When my system starts up (reboot) it adjusts the state of all of the VP30 parameters to what I want them to be. This includes assigning audio to video inputs to reflect the system cabling. As I change input devices I then change those parameters I need to, and for my system the only thing I have had to change is the input source. I have the capability to adjust aspect ratio for DVD's by DVD but do not use it. I can adjust aspect ratio by station on the Cable tuners but do not use it.

I use a fixed set of output settings (I have a single projector) and the Vp30 adjusts its scaling operations to the current input. I do not overscan, or underscan or , etc.... The projector is setup according to its geometry. Input devices are setup for their output resolutions and aspect ratios. DVR's all output only 1080i, 16:9 or stretched 4:3; DVD systems output 480i, 90% of my DVD's are anamorphic widescreen; Media player (roku HD1000) outputs 720p 16:9, Playstation2 puts out 720p 16:9.

The vp30 locks onto each input correctly and scales it to the fixed output. I tried the DVR's in a mode where they output whatever the station sent, but I seemed to get a window of snow for about 2 seconds when I did that (SA8300HD DVR's). Most if not all of the HD broadcsts seem to be at 1080i.

As I said, I don't understand the need for a general poll. Perhaps that is because my system is the way it is.

2) I have my Motorola 6412 (Phase II) connected by a DVI->HDMI cable. From this connection I have been unable to get a signal. I'll exchange the 6412 and see if the problem is there...
I have my 6412PII hooked up the same way and I haven't had any problems other than the double image(side by side) when first starting up(although this is a problem with the 6412 and not the VP30).

3) Connecting the same 6412 via component, I get a great picture as long as the 6412 is on a high def channel and feeding either 720p or 1080i. When I go to a standard def channel and present the VP30 with 480i the active picture is "left justified" with garbage filling the screen on the right side. If I use the 16:9 preset, the picture stretches to fill the frame (distorted of course) and when I select 4:3, I see the picture area move to be left justified, appropriately sized, with "snapshots" left on the right hand side of the frame.
With the 480i setting on the 6412 for SD material the setup works fine until you go back to HD material and then there is a HDCP problem where either my display or the VP30 doesn't relock onto the HDCP'ed signal, I have to re-boot the VP30 to get a signal back. I'm guessing it's the VP30 as the output is not changing, just the input. I finally just changed the override setting on the 6412 back to 480P(I think, I would have to check it) as it wasn't worth the aggravation.

Thinking out loud, I have the same problem with a HD-TiVo when I change resolution from 1080i to 480i output as well. What seems to be happening is that the VP30 unlocks HCDP with the display when it has a 480i input while outputting 1080i to a HDCP display. If the VP30 retained the HDCP lock with the display even when the input was changed to a non-HDCP signal the problem may not happen. I haven't really done a through investigation though.

I have not seen the problems you mention though, I suspect it may be the 6412 itself.

You don't have the 6412 connected by both DVI and component at the same time do you? I've noticed this will cause weird problems, primarily very sluggish menus on the 6412.

I have my HD TiVo hooked up via HDMI, and am using that as the audio connection with v1.03. At first I had the same problem you did -- I was not getting sound in the menus, but seemed to be getting sound when I watched programs. However, last night I tried to play a non-HD show (horror of horrors, I know) and I wasn't getting any sound from it either. I fiddled a bit, ended up switching my audio source for HDMI1 to ... stereo, I think, and then back to HDMI1. After that (so far) I was getting sound from TiVo menus and standard def shows.

I'm beginning to suspect that we may have a hardware problem on our hands here. All that has changed on the 1.03 FW release, as far as the audio problem is concerned, would appear to be the muting of "illegal" audio streams that caused some receivers/amplfiers to screech. The muting has obviously been overdone and has now caused a worse situation than with the Vs 1.00 FW. My setup is about as benign as you could get - no HDMI/HDCP sources or display, only DVI, component and video sources, yet I'm still getting audio problems.

But, I'm still getting these audio problems even though I am only using the coax and toslink inputs for audio. As I've said before many times, the HD+ worked flawlessly in this respect, so DVDO must have got the code well and truly sorted out. This suggests that the audio hardware chain is totally different in the VP30.

From this you could conclude that not much more can be done to fix these problems in software. Particularly annoying (for those that don't suffer from the screeching) are the audio drop-outs. I hope I'm wrong, as a fix would then include a hardware mod/upgrade. If you're reading this Josh, could you please chirp in and let us know where we are heading with this audio problem? Thanks.

I've only had the screeching happen two or three times with v1.0 and I haven't had any audio dropouts. v1.03 has caused major audio problems for me. If they kept the audio part of v1.0 with the video part of v1.03 the firmware would be perfect for my setup. I guess I need to contact DVDO technical support. I need to contact them anyway to get my lens replacement.

I do not understand, why have a general poll? I do not run the VP30 that way. When I want to change something I change it. If I want to know a parameters value I would query it (I have found no need to do that). My experience is that the VP30 does not change things (parameter values) arbitrarily (requiring a poll for state, in the absence of an event driven notification).


CQC is a general purpose automation system, which provides two-way access to the devices under it's control. So it must be aware of changes (with a fairly small latency) in order to get that information into the driver's cached image of the device state. CQC is a network distributed automation system, and many clients can be accessing the status of any given device. So it is not practical to just go out to the device when a client asks for the status. That would be very inefficient. So CQC drivers keep the state of the device in memory and hand out that information very efficiently to clients when they ask.

This requires that the driver poll if the device doesn't provide async notifications. I designed the protocol in the iScan HD, and the VP30 is using the same protocol basically. Async notifications are nice in their way, but they make drivers a lot more complex and can be hard to handle in some simpler systems. So providing a pure call/response protocol, but with the the ability to very quickly find out if something has changed and if so what general set of fields the changes occured in, is a good way to provide both low latency and a simple call/response protocol.

If anyone is interested, I've played more with the TiVo and figured out more specifically what is going on.
My setup:
-A HD-250 plugged into HDMI1 on the VP30
-An optical output from the VP30 plugged into my Yamaha RX-V995
-VP30 set to send HDMI sound out when HDMI1 is selected.
-I don't know if it matters, but my HDCP device hooked to the VP30 is a Sharp XV-Z200 front projector.

The problem:
-Sound effects AND sound for "standard" channels (anything recorded on the TiVo that is not OTA and not one of the HD channels) go away.

How to reproduce:
-Play any HD channel (this includes anything recorded OTA, even if it's not really HD)
-Press "UP" on the TiVo to change resolutions. In my case, pressing UP toggles between 480i, 720p, and 1080i. It doesn't seem to matter which resolution you start on.
-Go back to the TiVo menu. At this point, the sounds don't work, and playing any standard def recording does not yield any sound.

The workaround:
-From the VP30, go to Input Adjust -> Audio Input.
-While here, either go up (to select "stereo") or go down (to select "off").
-now press down (or up) to return to HDMI
-At this point, the sound will work - until you change resolutions on an HD channel

Another workaround is to turn the VP30 off and then back on again

I don't know what this means. When you change resolutions on the HDTiVo, the HDCP seems to need to renegotiate. I'm guessing that something happens here that is confusing the VP30. As escon said, it looks like the muting maybe a bit overdone with 1.03. My tendency would be to blame the TiVo -- it's not the best piece of hardware out there - but the fact that doing changes in the VP30 fixes it makes me lean toward it being a VP30 issue.

On the good side, I no longer get horrible screeches when watching DVDs (Panasonic S97 connected via coax)

....
I don't know what this means. When you change resolutions on the HDTiVo, the HDCP seems to need to renegotiate. I'm guessing that something happens here that is confusing the VP30. As escon said, it looks like the muting maybe a bit overdone with 1.03. My tendency would be to blame the TiVo -- it's not the best piece of hardware out there - but the fact that doing changes in the VP30 fixes it makes me lean toward it being a VP30 issue....

I'm not running 1.03 yet. I'm still on the original firmware. I have the VP30 with an HDTivo connected to it via HDMI for both audio and video. The VP30 then outputs to a Sharp Z2000 for vid and a B&K Ref 50 for audio. I've never had any screeching. What does happen with my set-up, however, is a "confusion" issue like what you describe. It happens to me when I switch away from the HDTivo say to my Xbox 360 and then switch back to the HDTivo. I won't have any sound even though I had sound before switching to the 360. Turning the B&K off and on or turning off the VP30 off and on fixes the problem. I don't know if this is the same problem, but if it is, then it exists in both firmware versions.

I talked to DVDO technical support yesterday and they said they were working on a fix for the DD/DTS audio problem in 1.03. My Sony 975 DVD player will only pass PCM stereo and not DD/DTS. Does anyone else have this problem or is it specific to my 975?
The HDTiVos didn't have this problem but HDCP isn't enabled with the HDTiVos. If you disable HDCP with the HDTiVos you will still get a picture. If you disable HDCP with the SOny 975 you won't be able to get a picture to view which is how the HDCP should work. So I need to leave the HDCP on from the VP30 and fortunately I can use v1.00(+ the update to correct the 1080i isssue) since I didn't have the problems other people had.

The HDTiVos didn't have this problem but HDCP isn't enabled with the HDTiVos.

Partly true. If the display supports HDCP, the TiVo will detect and enable all the time. If the display does not, then the TiVo will not use HDCP.

I have never been able to get audio from my HD TiVo to work with the VP30. This is from 1.0 to 1.03. In fact, I believe the HDMI option is now disabled on the audio input menu on my VP30 for the TiVO input. My TiVo is from the original batch that was released. Perhaps this is a HW problem in my TiVo.

Also, the HDMI output of the HD TiVo is not HDMI compliant.

Also, the HDMI output of the HD TiVo is not HDMI compliant.
Interesting, in what way?

This isn't conclusive by any means, but last night I was watching a movie at 48hz sync and had three major audio drop-outs. Eventually I switched back to 60hz as a test and did not have any more audio problems for the rest of the movie. That may be a coincidence, I'm not sure.

[QUOTE=aaronwt]I talked to DVDO technical support yesterday and they said they were working on a fix for the DD/DTS audio problem in 1.03. My Sony 975 DVD player will only pass PCM stereo and not DD/DTS. Does anyone else have this problem or is it specific to my 975? QUOTE]

I am OK on all but my Dish411 which I have blamed for the problem until now. Get PCM over HDMI but DD/DTS over digital out.

Cable box,Dvhs and DVD are OK.

I am really perplexed about the implementation of input aspect ratio. Although I can set the appropriate FAR & AAR to get the desired display, it seems overly convoluted and relatively difficult for a non-technical end user who doesn’t care to know the gory details of aspect ratio.

Here is my example and a suggestion of how to add a simpler interface for the user:

I have two display devices, a 16:9 projector/screen and a 16:9 plasma.

For DVD’s there are really only three choices that an end user should have to decide between:

4:3 FAR, 4:3 AAR – To be displayed in 4:3 pillar box

4:3 FAR, non 4:3 AAR – To be displayed full width with the “middle” 360 scan lines scaled to display height

16:9 FAR, any AAR – To be displayed full width & height


So on my remote, I can have three simple buttons of “4:3, 16:9, and Letterbox”

This would work even for movies with “odd” aspect ratios (Rain Man 1.90, Peter Pan 2.40, Harry Potter 1 2.00, etc) that are otherwise unlikely to be shown correctly. This need not replace the existing system, just supplement it. You don’t seem to have this functionality, so what am I missing in the analysis?

Without support for a system like this, I have to have a toggle button for the FAR and then at least 6 buttons for the common AAR’s, more if I want to have some additional AAR’s in the presets.

Pre-VP30 I had this functionality in the projector and the plasma


As an aside, I guess I don’t understand why the AAR can’t be derived from the video signal itself. It would seem that if I tell a processor that the FAR is 4:3 or 16:9 then the AAR can be reasonably calculated by examination of a number of frames and deciding where “black stops” and the picture begins/ends. Is this not practical?

I'm trying to connect my HTPC to the VP30 with a VGA-RGBHV breakout cable and displaying a 1280x720p signal. VP30 is running the 1.03 beta firmware. Per the FAQ is should be able to send a standard 720p HD signal:

The RGBHV/Component input on the iScan VP30 will accept and process standard definition progressive (480p/576p), high definition (720p/1080i) and VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA computer signals at 60 Hz. Any signal that is processed can be output from the iScan VP30 as either an analog (component or RGB) or digital signal (component or RGB).

I'm using an nVidia 6600 graphics card and the latest drivers. Using the advanced setup I can select 1280x720p @ 59.xx. PowerStrip should not be necessary. This drives my Panasonic AE-900 perfectly. When inputed into the VP30 I get no signal sync??

I can display standard 4x3 computer signals fine, so I know the cabling is correct. Has anybody got a similar setup to successful work?

Thanks,

Jeff

Mark it depends if you need/want to use the vp30 masking all the time. Personally I can't be bothered to check the box to see what the ratio is and hope that it's accurate everytime a watch a film. I'm using both a 16:9 and 4:3 display at the moment and have only ever had to use the 4:3 and 16:9 buttons on the vp30 remote to change aspect on either display.

Firmware 1.03 has added auto ratio support for HDMI sources but it depends on the source being accurate which isn't always the case (it's just a seperate flag added to the signal).

I can display standard 4x3 computer signals fine, so I know the cabling is correct. Has anybody got a similar setup to successful work?I have the same graphics card - same problem.

This might be obvious to most people - but I thought it might be worth mentioning just in case it solved a problem for someone. I too have had problems getting audio with sources (in my case, Pioneer DV59 and SA8300 Cable Box) connected through HDMI - both with Firmware version 1.00 and 1.03. I'll try turning the VP30 on and off, plugging and unplugging it, switching audio inputs on the menu back and forth - to no avail.

And then, I've reached behind the VP30 and/or the source unit, jiggled the HDMI connection...and, voila!, sound. Three times now I've spent 15-20 minutes trying to get sound, then slapped myself on the forhead, tried this simple trick, and - d'oh! - it works.

As has been noted elsewhere, HDMI connections are notoriously loosey-goosey and even the slightest jiggle can cause a problem - like transferring video but not audio.

As noted above - this is so basic that most of you have probably tried this anyway, but I thought it worth mentioning, just in case...

This might be obvious to most people - but I thought it might be worth mentioning just in case it solved a problem for someone. I too have had problems getting audio with sources (in my case, Pioneer DV59 and SA8300 Cable Box) connected through HDMI - both with Firmware version 1.00 and 1.03. I'll try turning the VP30 on and off, plugging and unplugging it, switching audio inputs on the menu back and forth - to no avail.

And then, I've reached behind the VP30 and/or the source unit, jiggled the HDMI connection...and, voila!, sound. Three times now I've spent 15-20 minutes trying to get sound, then slapped myself on the forhead, tried this simple trick, and - d'oh! - it works.

As has been noted elsewhere, HDMI connections are notoriously loosey-goosey and even the slightest jiggle can cause a problem - like transferring video but not audio.

As noted above - this is so basic that most of you have probably tried this anyway, but I thought it worth mentioning, just in case...

Interesting. I think perhaps that we could have more than one problem here. My audio drop-outs/disappearence altogether have also occurred on the other digital inputs. Jiggling your HDMI connectors in all probablility caused the signals to be disconnected/reconnected and caused the handshake signals from the source to be disrupted. This caused a re-sync requirement from the source and allowed/forced the VP30 to do a re-sync as well. Do your HDMI connectors feel loose? Next time you get the problem, it may be worthwhile turning your source(s) off and on to see if that also works to get the sound back up. If it does, you will at least know for sure that your HDMI connectors are OK :)

Hi all,

I am considering the VP30 for my new home theater. I read the review on Secrets and was intrigued by this note:

Display profiles let you specify four complete output profiles. The power of this concept can be understood better when you think about the possibilities that this feature can offer. You can essentially have two displays (a plasma and a projector) with two different output aspect ratios, native rate timings, etc. – but both connected to the unit. Switching between them is as simple as switching output profiles. As you can also switch between these automatically based on input, you can easily set things up so that your plasma can automatically show your satellite TV programs, but the projector shows DVD movies (unless you manually switch it around!).\\

I want to connect the VP30 to my DLP and my projector so I can use one display or the other. I was under the impression that I would need to buy a Geffen 1x2 HDMI splitter to do this but the text above seems to indicate that I could connect both devices to the VP30 without the splitter. Is this correct? Can someone explain this to me?

Thanks!
James

Do not confuse the physical connection with the logical one. There is only one HDMI output on the VP30. There are other video outputs; Component, RGBVH. I believe all outputs get the same logical signal. If you want to feed two HDMI devices, then you do need a HDMI distribution amplifier such as the one made by Gefen.

Thanks! That is exactly what I thought but the review confused me!

Only one output can be active at a time. You could route the HDMI to one display device and the RGB/component to another and control with the display profiles.

I've never had a problem with any HDMI connections and never had a loose connection. The only way my HDMI connectors will come out is if I actually pull on the cable. I can wiggle the cables all I want and it will not affect anything. This is with all my connections. The VP30, 3 HDTiVos, Sony 975 DVD, and my Samsung 1080P set. Could it be the HDMi cables that I'm using. I got them from RAM Electronics with the AVS discount.

This might be obvious to most people - but I thought it might be worth mentioning just in case it solved a problem for someone. I too have had problems getting audio with sources (in my case, Pioneer DV59 and SA8300 Cable Box) connected through HDMI - both with Firmware version 1.00 and 1.03. I'll try turning the VP30 on and off, plugging and unplugging it, switching audio inputs on the menu back and forth - to no avail.

And then, I've reached behind the VP30 and/or the source unit, jiggled the HDMI connection...and, voila!, sound. Three times now I've spent 15-20 minutes trying to get sound, then slapped myself on the forhead, tried this simple trick, and - d'oh! - it works.

As has been noted elsewhere, HDMI connections are notoriously loosey-goosey and even the slightest jiggle can cause a problem - like transferring video but not audio.

As noted above - this is so basic that most of you have probably tried this anyway, but I thought it worth mentioning, just in case...

I talked to DVDO technical support yesterday and they said they were working on a fix for the DD/DTS audio problem in 1.03. My Sony 975 DVD player will only pass PCM stereo and not DD/DTS. Does anyone else have this problem or is it specific to my 975?
The HDTiVos didn't have this problem but HDCP isn't enabled with the HDTiVos. If you disable HDCP with the HDTiVos you will still get a picture. If you disable HDCP with the SOny 975 you won't be able to get a picture to view which is how the HDCP should work. So I need to leave the HDCP on from the VP30 and fortunately I can use v1.00(+ the update to correct the 1080i isssue) since I didn't have the problems other people had.

I have been having this DD/ DTS audio passing through since Dec. 05. I have to set audio of all dvd players and dish receiver (6000) to PCM to get around this problem. Sound like 1.03 FW did not solve this issue. I will wait until it is resolved to update my FW.

Just a quick question, to do the upgrade, do you use a standard or "null" cable?

Thanks

Finally got round to trying some more audio connections to the VP30, I'd only used the analogue input up to now. I've discovered that connecting my DVD via optical to the VP30 produces no sound, either DD or PCM. Take the same cable and plug direct into the amp and all is fine. I thought it might be the 1.03 fw so went back to 1.00 but this didn't help. I then tried swaping the optical lead for a coax digital and as if by magic both DD and PCM worked.

I'm using optical out of the VP30 to my amp and had tried both optical inputs on the VP30.

I'm re-flashing back to 1.03 to verify this again.

I'll then try some other sources to check if my VP30 optical inputs are just dead. :(

If they're not then there's some compatibility issue here that might help others (i.e. try swaping optical to coax if you get no sound).

EDIT:

Okay, it's the same with 1.03 and inputing PCM from my Squeezebox2 works on the optical inputs.

Another issue has surfaced too, after switching to C2 (DVD + Coax digital) and getting nice 5.1 DD if I switch back to C1 (Cable TV + Analogue) I get no sound. Switching inputs, changing setting and standby don't return the Analogue audio input to a working state. The only thing that works is to pull the power out of the VP30, wait a bit and then plug it back in. Analogue audio starts working again but if I switch to Digital it breaks once more.

Getting bored now... I'll try going back (again) to 1.00 and see if this second issue goes away, if not I'll have to bypass the audio half of the VP30 again and start saving for a Vantage HD. :rolleyes:

EDIT2:

Looks like I'll be sticking with 1.00 fw for now, this doesn't show the 2nd issue I was having with the Analogue audio getting disabled.

Josh@DVDO do you want a more detailed version of the above sent to support or does it sound simular enough to the stuff already being investigated?

The cable for the connecting the serial port to the VP30 is a 1:1 straight through cable (2 to 2, 3 to 3, 5 to 5). This cable is used both for controlling the VP30 via automation and uploading firmware

Josh@DVDO do you want a more detailed version of the above sent to support or does it sound simular enough to the stuff already being investigated?

Ailean,

I've sent detailed reports on all of this to beta@dvdo.com, as requested by DVDO on the site that has the beta download. I have not had any reply or acknowledgement to any of my emails. A bit dissapointing as to date DVDO's response has been very good. Almost as if they have gone into hiding on this one.

You might be able to get sound again, other than by switching off the VP30, by choosing an input that has PCM as its format. I find that once I do that, I get the sound back on the other inputs including the stereo input. This works one hundred percent of the time for me. Sometimes, again as others have reported as well, you can restore sound by fiddling with the input selection on a particular input, but that does not always work for me.

Unfortunately, I had lockups on the earlier FW, so 1.03 is better in that regard so far - it's early days though. But, like you, or another poster, I have to stick to PCM.

Phil.

This evening the curtain operation started to behave strangely. When closing, instead of starting from the two ends and closing in the middle, it started from the left end and went all the way across to the right. When opening, it opened from right to left instead of from the middle out to the ends.

A power cycle (Unplug, plug back in) on the VP30 made it start to operate as it did before.

Something is wrong as it should not just randomly decide to change its modus operandi. I suspect the software is overwriting memory someplace. I know it is not a big critical thing, but I suspect it is indicitive of a more fundamental problem.

There are way too many "works okay, then stops, power cycle fixes it" being reported

This evening the curtain operation started to behave strangely. When closing, instead of starting from the two ends and closing in the middle, it started from the left end and went all the way across to the right. When opening, it opened from right to left instead of from the middle out to the ends.

A power cycle (Unplug, plug back in) on the VP30 made it start to operate as it did before.

Something is wrong as it should not just randomly decide to change its modus operandi. I suspect the software is overwriting memory someplace. I know it is not a big critical thing, but I suspect it is indicitive of a more fundamental problem.

There are way too many "works okay, then stops, power cycle fixes it" being reported

Amen :confused: I somehow get the feeling that the software team on the VP30 is a different one from the one that worked on the HD+.

Barry - a simple way to think of this command is to imagine that the unit has been sitting for a week without any RS-232 control. The "Serial Number" will respond with anything that has changed since the last >>RS-232<< control - and with some logic this could mean the difference between re-sending all of the configurations - or just one or none (thus the communication over-head Dean/Mark are referring to).


But the real reason for it is in terms of ongoing polling. If you have X number of values in the unit that you want to be aware of changes to within a second or so of latency, you have the choices of either pollling all of them every second, or just watching the serial number until one of the bits representing the area that a value you are interested in comes up set.

The latter means that the device spends far less time with the serial port locked up, so that outgoing commands have pretty much free access to the port, i.e. lower outgoing command latency, and it means that you can very quickly react to actual changes by just reading the stuff that changed, i.e. lower read latency. The command to check the serial number of small and quick and can be done fairly rapidly at 56K baud while keeping the actual port usage low.

Tim,

To do this properly, you should never do this all the time, but analyze this over time. i.e., if an advert starts in the middle of a movie, you should never switch immediately to the advertisement's aspect ratio - that would result it too many problems.

Also, an automatic aspect ratio system like this should also consider subtitles. You can have a few minutes without subtitles, but I really wouldn't want subtitles to cause the aspect ratio to change all the time.

The opposite goes for a static channel logo, i really wouldn't want it to interfere when choosing an aspect ratio automatically...

So, I would say that if you do add a feature like this, you need to have parameters like max aspect ratio, minimum aspect ratio, and the ability to mark the areas you want to have anlyzed by the system.

You might be able to get sound again, other than by switching off the VP30, by choosing an input that has PCM as its format. I find that once I do that, I get the sound back on the other inputs including the stereo input. This works one hundred percent of the time for me. Sometimes, again as others have reported as well, you can restore sound by fiddling with the input selection on a particular input, but that does not always work for me.

Unfortunately, I had lockups on the earlier FW, so 1.03 is better in that regard so far - it's early days though. But, like you, or another poster, I have to stick to PCM.

Phil.

Thanks Phil, I've only got two devices pluged in at the moment so not much switching going on. If I get bored again I may put 1.03 back on and try out the PCM trick, I did try messing about with the audio input select but that didn't do much for me.

Should have my new cabinates in a couple of weeks so will be able to put everything back in and rewire the whole lot with the VP30 in the equation... although where it is will depend alot on whether the audio part is stable. ;)

I think this has been asked before but I'll just add my vote... DVDO can we have a little audio diagnostics added to the Info page so we can tell if it's muting it at least and possibly what format it thinks the input is. Took me at least an extra hour to figure out what was going on because I was messing with all the audio settings in the DVD and Amp and the VP30 just to find it was all down to the VP30 not wanting to play with my Optical feed from the DVD and then muting everything including the Analogue input (that one really confused me :) ).

As to the lack of responce from DVDO, I suspect it's the same as with the pre-1.03 beta, i.e. they've found a couple of early reporters of these issues and are testing stuff out on them before a public responce and then another beta release.

As to the lack of responce from DVDO, I suspect it's the same as with the pre-1.03 beta, i.e. they've found a couple of early reporters of these issues and are testing stuff out on them before a public responce and then another beta release.

Just had a reply from Josh of DVDO. They are working on a variable delay muting setup regime whereby you can set parameters to suit your system. Should go a long way to help with the audio problem. Josh also confirmed that the audio chain in the VP30 is very different from that in the HD+, so that answers the question as to why we are seeing these problems with the VP30 and not with the HD+.

Just been reading the VHD thread and boy, it ain't an easy journey along the HDMI/HDCP trail.

Been following that thread as well, nasty, bad HDMI/HDCP, go away... :D

I've been running the beta firmware for a few days now. I'm still getting occasional audio dropouts when watching DVDs. This is a short, perhaps 1/2 second of silence in the middle of a program. This only happens when watching DVDs (which is the only DD/DTS source I use). I'm outputting 60Hz, so it does not appear to be related to 48Hz as others have speculated. I also still have the HD Tivo loss of audio issues when switching between PCM and DD programs. The workaround is to turn off DD output from the Tivo, which also might be why I haven't seen the 1/2 second audio dropout issue on the Tivo.

On a positive note the colorspace issues are definitely improved and also I have not seen the problem where the VP30 fails respond to aspect ratio discrete IR codes until a reboot.

- Collin

I have two Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR's. They are set to output only 1080i. They are connected to the VP30 for video only through HDMI. Audio goes from the DVR directly to my audio processor via toslink.

Whenever I switch to either of them I get large black areas on the screen until I cause something to drastically change the picture such as putting up the guide, Info, change stations. I am pretty sure it is the 8300HD and not the VP30.

Has anyone else seen this?

I have two Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR's. They are set to output only 1080i. They are connected to the VP30 for video only through HDMI. Audio goes from the DVR directly to my audio processor via toslink.

Whenever I switch to either of them I get large black areas on the screen until I cause something to drastically change the picture such as putting up the guide, Info, change stations. I am pretty sure it is the 8300HD and not the VP30.

Has anyone else seen this?

It is a known issue with the HDMI implementation of the 8300HD. I have the same problem.

Is there a single discrete code to power the VP30 on/off? I use the single macro power button on my MX-500 to turn all my equipment on/off. Without this I need to have two macros.

yes. There is a power IR code to turn on the VP30 and a Standby IR code to turn it off. They have been posted here some time earlier. I do not know if the web site has been updated, but look there www.dvdo.com - support - automation

I need a single code to toggle the power state and not two separate codes.

Having upgraded to the 1.03 firmware, I have now, no screeching sound problems and switching between a PCM signal to a DD/DTS signal results in no audio dropout. My attached gear to the VP30 includes a Arcam AVR300 receiver and a Arcam DV29 hdmi DVD player.

Now for the issues introduced with this 1.03 beta upgrade, which I previously did not have -
The Dvd player, whilst negotiating with VP30 via hdmi input, automatically re-enables progressive scan from my dvd players setup menu by itself and only allows PAL 625 progressive only , hiding the "off" and NTSC settings. ??? Previously I could set it to PAL , NTSC or Auto (my chosen setting).
As a note, I live in a PAL region but often view my NTSC disks ,so losing NTSC playback is a drag. Also not being able to disable progressive scan playback goes against the way the signal should be sent to the VP30, I guess !
I played around with the colour space settings and HDCP settings by turning them "on" and "off" in the VP30 setup menu and hard reset the Dvd players setup menu ,but as soon as I insert a Dvd and it speaks to the VP30 it once again alters the settings with no change in this strange behaviour.

Since I did not have video issues in the original firmware but compounded with audio screeching ( now fixed with 1.03) ,(bit of a hollow victory - fix one problem ,break another) , would it not be advisable to release individual fixes so people can pick and choose which problems they have specific to there HiFi setup ?

Hey ABT guys, any chance we will get greyscale/gamma point calibration?
that, along with sat/hue controls for red/green will make this processor the cream of the crop, the SDI DVD image is amazing, certainly a improvement over the Iscan HD/+

-Gary

I have two Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR's. They are set to output only 1080i.

Why not configure the 8300's for pass-through instead? This way the only scaling is done by the VP30 an you limit the amount of processing on the signal.

That is what I did. On the Passport software there is no pass through mode, but if you allow all output resolutions, then effectively it is a passthrough.

I am hoping someone can help me get full benefit out of my VP30. I have a IF7210 on a 92" Firehawk.

I have a SA8300HD and a Samsung (read old) DVD player with Component Video out.

I have my SA8300HD set up to pass through all signals to the VP30 for processing. I have my 7210 set up for Native (1280X720p) rate, so in theory no scaling/processing should be done in the PJ.

My issue is on SD Cable, I have a black strip about 2" wide on the left side of the picture. This strip is next to the gray bars on 4X3 content. I have not figured out how to get rid of this strip.

When I have the test patterns enabled, I cannot get 1:1 pixel mapping on the frame/geometry Test Pattern. I had to change the number from 1280 to 1299 to get the right side of the test pattern to show, but cannot get the left side. Simlarly, I could get the bottom of the test pattern by changing the number to 741, but not get the to pattern.

Anyone have any suggestions? The version of AVIA that I have do not have these test patterns, maybe the newer versions do, but this manual does not explain how to use them (i.e. vertical shift, size, synch, back, front, etc.)

TIA for any help that can be suggested.

Are you running your SA8300HD with HDMI out or Component out?. I run my 2 with HDMI out, with audio from the toslink connector bypassing the VP30 and running direct to my audio processor. I have never seen the black bar you are referring too. Sounds as if at SD resoultions when the DVR is putting out 480i it is slightly out of Horizontal phase starting the left edge too late.

If you change to only 1080i out does it go away? Have you asked your cable company to give you a new box?

My issue is on SD Cable, I have a black strip about 2" wide on the left side of the picture. This strip is next to the gray bars on 4X3 content. I have not figured out how to get rid of this strip.

When I have the test patterns enabled, I cannot get 1:1 pixel mapping on the frame/geometry Test Pattern. I had to change the number from 1280 to 1299 to get the right side of the test pattern to show, but cannot get the left side. Simlarly, I could get the bottom of the test pattern by changing the number to 741, but not get the to pattern.
I'm somewhat of a newbie here - I'm sure someone else will correct me, but here goes :) First, the black strip. I see all sorts of things on 4x3. I suspect what you are seeing are artifacts/garbage/problems that are usually covered up with overscan. In addition to weird spacing on the left/right, I also see a flickering line (VBI?) at the top of the screen when watching 4x3 material at 480i on my TiVo HD-250. To fix this, you just need to fiddle with the Input Aspect Ratio parameters on the VP30. If you turn on some borders you can "even it out" so that you get the same amount of black space on all sides. You could zoom in horizontally and then pan the screen over a bit. You could also go to Input Adjust Control and adjust overscan.

A simpler option might be, if you can, to set your SA8300HD to put out black bars instead of gray - then you won't notice the black space.

For the second part, if I understand it correctly, the screens to determine 1:1 pixel mapping are the checkerboard, vertical, and horizontal line patterns. If those are good, then you are doing 1:1. To fix your problem there are a few things to try. One is that it looks like the 7210 has an overscan option -- you want to make sure that is off, otherwise you won't see the whole picture. After that, with the VP30 usermode set to advanced, you should be able to use the size and shift options in Output -> Format to get the Frame Geometry image to fit (although it sounds like you are already messing with those options). If you've got 1:1 mapping, overscan (on the projector) turned off, and still can't fit the image, you will need someone smarter than me to answer your question

I don't think you want to mess with AVIA until you get everything calibrated between the projector and the VP30. Once that is done, you can run AVIA to specifically calibrate your DVD player using the picture controls in the VP30.

barrygordon - I have mine set up the same as you - HDMI from 8300HD to VP30 and digital audio directly to AVR to bypass audio dropout issue in VP30. In 1080i mode I do recall the same black strip along the left side, but I have had it the 8300hd in pass through mode for a couple of weeks and though it has always been there, the vertical strip seems to be wider. To be honest, i really don't watch much SD TV, but when i do it is irritating and I would like to be able to get rid of it.

It appears as if the entire image is shifted to the right.

Mind Voyager - good suggestion on the 7210 overscan. I will check that this evening. Regarding AVIA, I was looking to use some of the test patterns in the VP30 to optimize my setup. The problem is that there is no description anywhere on the test patterns, how to use them and what to look for. I already used AVIA to set up my DVD regarding brightness, contrast, hue, etc.

Thanks for the feedback and I will update the results.

Regarding AVIA, I was looking to use some of the test patterns in the VP30 to optimize my setup. The problem is that there is no description anywhere on the test patterns, how to use them and what to look for. I already used AVIA to set up my DVD regarding brightness, contrast, hue, etc.

Thanks for the feedback and I will update the results.

Check out page 37 of the iScan VP30 User Manual, specifically a section called 'Source Calibration'. There is a description of which iScan internal test patterns to use with specific test patterns on the AVIA DVD.

The problem is that there is no description anywhere on the test patterns, how to use them and what to look for.
Have you looked at the "How to Use the iScan’s Internal Test Patterns and AVIA to Setup" document? It can be found at: http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_pro_man.php

- Dale Adams

I have looked at the manual - maybe I am missing something. i will take another look this evening.

Dale -

Without beating a dead horse, this is the same information in the UM. What I am saying is that the documenation does not describe the adjustment modes available and what their functions are. It only gives a simplistic example.

Specifically, I can only get two of the lines (right and bottom) to appear on the Frame Geometry adjustment on my 7210. There are a lot of other adjustments in this test pattern that I could not tell what they were doing - even though I changed them a significant amount to see their impact on the image.

The test indicates that there should be a single row/column of pixels that define the white lines, but on my display, some lines are two wide others are one. There are also shades of gray next to a white line in some areas and not in others.

I am new to this, so i was looking for some guidance from your documentation on what this means and how to adjust, but this detail is not there. I am looking to understand if there is more information available for me to learn from adjusting and using these test patterns. Otherwise, this test pattern does not appear useful to me beacuse I cannot figure out how to make all of the appropriate adjustments to get the image to where it is supposed to be and there is not sufficient documentation to describe what all the adjustments are supposed to accomplish.

Enough of my rant. Otherwise, I am happy with the unit. I would just like to be able to get the most performance possible out of it, since this is what i paid for.

Thanks.

Without beating a dead horse, this is the same information in the UM. What I am saying is that the documenation does not describe the adjustment modes available and what their functions are. It only gives a simplistic example.
So it does. My apologies. It appears that the descriptions of both the test patterns and the output timing adjustment controls were removed from the iScan user manual in the transition from the HD+ to the VP30. (I've never really looked at the VP30 user manual as I didn't work on that product.) It appears to me that the VP30 user manual has been 'dumbed down' a bit. I'll pursue this further inside ABT, as I think this is the wrong approach to take. (My opinion, only, which doesn't always match those of others inside ABT.) In the meantime, these descriptions are still in the iScan HD+ user manual which you can also get from the DVDO website.

Specifically, I can only get two of the lines (right and bottom) to appear on the Frame Geometry adjustment on my 7210. There are a lot of other adjustments in this test pattern that I could not tell what they were doing - even though I changed them a significant amount to see their impact on the image.
The test pattern itself doesn't have any adjustments. All the adjustments must be made to the VP30's output timing parameters (which aren't described in the VP30 manual either).

The test indicates that there should be a single row/column of pixels that define the white lines, but on my display, some lines are two wide others are one. There are also shades of gray next to a white line in some areas and not in others.
This means that you don't have 1:1 mapping and that the image is still being scaled by your display. The lines coming out of the VP30 are 1 pixel wide. If they appear to be more than that on your display, then the display is stretching/smearing them.

The Frame/Geometry test pattern is not the sole one used to achieve 1:1 mapping. It's used more to ensure that the entire output image of the iScan is visible (which is a part of the process). Three other test patterns are also used in this process - the 1-pixel wide vertical lines, 1-pixel wide horizontal lines, and 1-pixel checkerboard. Achieving 1:1 mapping is typically an iterative procedure, and involves going back and forth between these 4 test patterns while adjusting the VP30's output timing parameters.

Ideally, all you should have to do is set the VP30's output resolution to the native resolution of your display and your display would lock onto the signal and bypass its internal processing. This seldom works in practice, however, as every display seems to want a little bit different timing. One of the few exceptions to this is when there is a published video standard such as that for 720p. Even then, many display manufacturers do things like overscan the input signal, making it difficult or impossible (and, at a minimum, non-intuitive) to achieve 1:1 mapping.

More typically, you'll need to adjust the horizontal and vertical image size, as well as the image position. It may be possible to perform both of these adjustment types on either the VP30 or your display (depending on your display's capabilities). The end goal is to have the entire frame/geometry pattern visible on the display, while the other 3 test patterns noted above do not show any banding, moire, or other distortions. (E.g., the 1-pixel vertical lines should all be exactly 1 pixel wide.) If you achieve the latter, then the 1-pixel lines in the frame/geometry pattern should all be displayed as just a single pixel wide.

Unfortunately, there is no one, set procedure to achieve 1:1 mapping on every display. It's often a trial and error process as the display manufacturers don't provide you with the information you need to configure the VP30 properly. Try reading the test pattern and timing adjustment descriptions in the iScan HD+ manual, play around a bit with the VP30's image size and position controls while looking at the 4 test patterns noted above, and see how far you get. If you still have problems, give the DVDO tech support line a call and they can work with you interactively to get the VP30 set up for your display.

- Dale Adams

Thanks, Dale. I looked at the test patterns, wasn't sure what to even do with some of them. Actually broke down and RTM, but couldn't find much of any help. Now I know why. I'll go download the HD+ manual, and try again.

Dale -

I appreciate the detailed response. I am an engineer, so I am used to detailed documentation (having to read it and write it).

I will work on the issues you identified. According to Infocus manual, I have my 7210 set up to by pass the scaler. i will check with the experts in the PJ forum regarding this.

Thanks again.

I would also like to throw out a request for more increments on the sharpness adjustment(in addition to color decoder, gamma and greyscale adjustments), one click up from the bottom(1) is a tad too much, maybe some negative sharpness also (like Alan was discussing in another thread)

of course I am nit picking :D but throwing out requests won't hurt will it ?? ;)

-Gary

Some observations:

I finally got around to checking my output geometry. The geometry test is right on. The horizontal lines are perfect. The vertical lines are not what they should be. The checkerboard test is messed up vertically. By the way the picture on the display looks very sharp, very good quality, even with rescaling going on.

I took out the service manual on my projector (BenQ PE8700) and looked up the factory data for Sync width, Active area size, Front porch and Back porch. The Horizontal data is in Pixels and the vertical data is in lines. Unlike most mfg's, BenQ provides all of that data.

I then checked the same parameters for the format setting of 720p which is the one I use. All of the vertical data was an exact match, hence the perfect horizontal lines.

The horizontal data did not match. The actual VP30 settings for the front and back porches where different then the projector service manual specs, but the sum of the front and back porches were the same for the VP30 and The BenQ spec.

Tomorrow I will change those settings in the user format to exactly match the projector and see if the vertical lines then look correct. I suspect they will, but the picture will shift horizontally. I am assuming that changes in the horizontal shift setting will adjust for that. The BenQ manual also provides the overall size number which (I believe) is the sum of the front porch, the sync width, the active area, and the back porch, they do not provide the value for the front porch. The VP30 provides both porch sizes, the active area size and the sync width size, but does not provide the overall size. Obviously the missing values in each case can be computed.

The 1.03 beta software provides for the adjustment of all of these timing parameters in the Output - format - user menu item, while the VP30 ref manual only talks about size.

I would appreciate any comments from the DVDO staff or any users, since I forgot most of my video timing data many years ago. I will publish what happens tomorrow when I change the data.

.

The 1.03 beta software provides for the adjustment of all of these timing parameters in the Output - format - user menu item, while the VP30 ref manual only talks about size.

I would appreciate any comments from the DVDO staff or any users, since I forgot most of my video timing data many years ago. I will publish what happens tomorrow when I change the data.

.

Hi Barry,
About a page up Dale mentions that he's just noticed that this section of the VP30 manual seems to be more dumbed down then previous ones and to check out the HD+ manual for more detail of what these advanced setting do.

I've not read it yet but there maybe more usefull stuff there for you. I'm impressed the BenQ has this info, it was on my short list but then I demoed a few DLPs and found I picked up on rainbows too much. Ended up with a Sony HS20 but alas it's odd native res can only be driven at 56hz so I'm stuck with 720p@60 zoomed in (50hz gives a nice tear hoz across the middle :rolleyes: ).

I had previously stated that the beta firmware fixed the "unit becomes unresponsive to aspect ratio discretes" bug. Unfortunately, I spoke to soon. It took almost a week to appear, but eventually my VP30 running 1.0.3 beta stopped listening to all aspect discretes except for the 4:3 & 16:9 commands learned from the original remote. The only way to fix the problem is to unplug the VP30 from the wall and restart it. I'm not the only person to report this problem, so I know it's not something peculiar about my setup. I've got several remotes and it happens with all of them including the de facto standard Pronto. I'd sure love to see this one addressed in a firmware update.

On a related note, is there a way to power cycle the unit from the front panel? If not can we get such a feature on your next scalar? I suggest holding down the power button for 5 seconds or so could initiate a restart. The manual describes how to do a factory reset, but I just want to restart the unit without loosing my settings. I'm not complaining or being sarcastic. I've been a happy HD, HD+, & now VP30 owner for almost two years, but the reality is that every now and then you do have to restart one of these units to fix a glitch. The power button on the front really only toggles the unit in and out of a low power state. This is rarely enough to fix a glitch. In my cabinet and I'm sure in others it's a bit of work to snake your hand behind the scaler to pull and reinsert power. A front panel restart would be very handy.

- Collin

the front panel re-start would be a great feature... in ALL my equipments actually .... getting behind my cabinet is no easy feat.....

Well updatede my firmware 2 days ago to the Beta.

Isuses. Changing sources is causing a pop in the audio via HDMI to a TV.
There are occasional audio drop outs.
That is all I have so far...

Guess I have the lack of aspect control to look forward too.

All prior settings were whipped out and I had to set the underscan this tiem to get hte image to fit. Fixed overscan on different inputs and havea pretty good picture. Srike that DVD picture is great. Need to recalibrate the input levels again thou. Maybe tonight.

The horizontal data did not match. The actual VP30 settings for the front and back porches where different then the projector service manual specs, but the sum of the front and back porches were the same for the VP30 and The BenQ spec.

Tomorrow I will change those settings in the user format to exactly match the projector and see if the vertical lines then look correct. I suspect they will, but the picture will shift horizontally. I am assuming that changes in the horizontal shift setting will adjust for that.If you change the shift setting on the VP30 then you're also changing the front and back porch. The shift control is just a convenient way to alter the positioning of the active video area relative to the sync pulse while keeping the overall number of pixels/lines the same. Your display may also have a shift control. Is that what you were planning on using?

The BenQ manual also provides the overall size number which (I believe) is the sum of the front porch, the sync width, the active area, and the back porch, they do not provide the value for the front porch. The VP30 provides both porch sizes, the active area size and the sync width size, but does not provide the overall size. Obviously the missing values in each case can be computed.Correct.

The 1.03 beta software provides for the adjustment of all of these timing parameters in the Output - format - user menu item, while the VP30 ref manual only talks about size.There are descriptions of these controls (which are also present in the original production release version of the VP30 software) in the iScan HD+ manual. Those descriptions were removed in the transition from HD+ to VP30, but the controls are basically the same in the 2 models, so you can reference the HD+ manual. It sounds like you already understand how they work, though, so I doubt looking at the HD+ manual will buy you much.

- Dale Adams

About a page up Dale mentions that he's just noticed that this section of the VP30 manual seems to be more dumbed down then previous ones and to check out the HD+ manual for more detail of what these advanced setting do.The main differences are that the descriptions of each test pattern, as well as the descriptions of the output timing controls, were removed from the VP30 manual. Some, but not all, of this information is spread throughout the section on setting up the VP30 using the test patterns. The added information on the test patterns might help a bit, but if you already have an understanding of video timing (i.e., sync, porches, etc.) then the video timing control descriptions probably won't.

- Dale Adams

Ispent time last night playing with th horizontal timing. I was never able to get a 1:1 pixel mapping in the the horizontal direction. I noted the following (while viewing the vertical lines test screen):

Altering the active area (1280) + or - 20 pixels did nothing
Altering the front porch or back porch altered the position of the image bringing up hash on either the left or right, but did noting to affect the pixel mapping
Setting the format from user to 720p@60 seemd to keep the user settings. I would have thought that the fixed settings were fixed and that any attempt to alter them would change the user settings by first setting user to the setting being altered (e.g. 720p and then allowing for the changes.

Why have both a shfift and the porch settings, don't they inter-relate on a 1:1 basis.

When I did a reset to factory defaults all values came back to the original factory values. I would have rathered that the factory default was other than 480p, but that is just a nit.

Am I correct in the statement that you can not alter the fixed output timings (e.g. 720p) but only the output format for the User? If so, I am not sure it is working that way (firmware 1.03).

At the current time I have all audio routed around the VP30. That changes tomorrow.

When watching non cable sources (DVD, Playstation, HD1000 media player) the audio is always perfect.

When watching cable sources (SA8300HD DVR's), sometimes the audio drops and then a second or two later recovers. Sometimes it gets a burst of audio noise and the picture pixelates for a few lines on the screen then all is well.

In my case this convinces me that the problem is a fundamental transmission problem common to cable systems and satellite systems. I had a Sat based system up to two weeks ago, and had similar issues. It does not appear in my case to be a VP30 problem (1.03 firmware)

Altering the active area (1280) + or - 20 pixels did nothing
Altering the front porch or back porch altered the position of the image bringing up hash on either the left or right, but did noting to affect the pixel mappingIt appears, then, that the manufacturer's timing spec is not accurate. Too bad. You might try changing the front or back porch settings (individually, not using the shift control) away from the VP30 default or the manufacturer's timing spec to see what happens. I've seen some displays which wouldn't give you 1:1 mapping unless one or both of the porch settings were correct (even if you didn't change anything else).

Another thing you could try is changing the sync polarity. A digital 720p signal is supposed to have positive HSync and VSync (per EIA/CEA-861-B), but perhaps the display wants something different. That coupled with shifting the image or varying the porches might do it.

You should also make sure there aren't any settings on the display itself which prevent you from getting 1:1 mapping. Any type of under/overscan setting, might do this, as could a size setting.

Why have both a shfift and the porch settings, don't they inter-relate on a 1:1 basis. While the shift control does alter the front and back porches (increasing one and decreasing the other, or vice versa), it also keeps the total number of pixels/lines the same. If you change one of the porch settings, the total number of pixels/lines will be altered by the same amount. The shift control is just an easy way to change the position of the active video with respect to sync without having to manually change both front and back porch settings.

Am I correct in the statement that you can not alter the fixed output timings (e.g. 720p) but only the output format for the User? If so, I am not sure it is working that way (firmware 1.03).If you select one of the predefined timings and then change one or more of the timing parameters, it automatically becomes the 'User' setting. Returning to the same predefined timing will restore the default parameters, with the changes you made stored under the 'User' setting. (That's how it's supposed to work, and that's what it does on the VP30 I just tried it on.) If you want to permanently save the 'User' settings, you should store them in one of the display profiles.

- Dale Adams

On the issue of 1:1 pixel mapping:

The WWW is a marvelous place. Everything is there. You just have to know what to ask to get what you are looking for or at least ideas to try.

I am driving a benq PE8700 from the VP30 over its HDMI/DVI connection. The VP30 is HDMI and the Benq is DVI-I. I have achieved 1:1 pixel mapping as shown by the VP30 test patterns for Horizontal lines, vertical lines, and the 1 pixel checkerboard. Dale Adams was of great help on the VP30 side. Nobody at Benq was of any help on the Projector side (where the issue was). The AVSforum had enough hints that I was able to luck out.

The Benq has various operating modes called Wide, ANA, Through, Letterbox, and Standard. I was using Wide. It turns out that Through turns off the internal scaler put only allows a 4:3 image and puts up silly side masks. ANA may or may not turn off the scaler BUT the VP30 pixel mapping patterns all show perfectly, so there is 1:1 pixel mapping. I suspect it may also turn off the internal scaler.

I have the VP30 format set at 720p@60hz. the various timing values do not match between the scaler and the projector, in particular front and back porch timings differ. However the total line size in pixels is 1650 in both cases. And the porches are off by 40 pixels. One high and one low. The image is perfectly centered and the geometry test pattern from the VP30 matches a similar geometry test pattern internal to the PE 8700.

I am now much happier.

I will be routing my audio through the scaler sometime today and report on whether there are any problems in my system when I do that. I will do it both with Audio on the HDMI cables for that source, and then through the optical inputs since I believe there may be a problem with the HDMI audio output on the SA8300HD cable boxes, my only HDMI audio sources.

On the issue of 1:1 pixel mapping:

The WWW is a marvelous place. Everything is there. You just have to know what to ask to get what you are looking for or at least ideas to try.

I am driving a benq PE8700 from the VP30 over its HDMI/DVI connection. The VP30 is HDMI and the Benq is DVI-I. I have achieved 1:1 pixel mapping as shown by the VP30 test patterns for Horizontal lines, vertical lines, and the 1 pixel checkerboard. Dale Adams was of great help on the VP30 side. Nobody at Benq was of any help on the Projector side (where the issue was). The AVSforum had enough hints that I was able to luck out.

The Benq has various operating modes called Wide, ANA, Through, Letterbox, and Standard. I was using Wide. It turns out that Through turns off the internal scaler put only allows a 4:3 image and puts up silly side masks. ANA may or may not turn off the scaler BUT the VP30 pixel mapping patterns all show perfectly, so there is 1:1 pixel mapping. I suspect it may also turn off the internal scaler.

I have the VP30 format set at 720p@60hz. the various timing values do not match between the scaler and the projector, in particular front and back porch timings differ. However the total line size in pixels is 1650 in both cases. And the porches are off by 40 pixels. One high and one low. The image is perfectly centered and the geometry test pattern from the VP30 matches a similar geometry test pattern internal to the PE 8700.

I am now much happier.

I will be routing my audio through the scaler sometime today and report on whether there are any problems in my system when I do that. I will do it both with Audio on the HDMI cables for that source, and then through the optical inputs since I believe there may be a problem with the HDMI audio output on the SA8300HD cable boxes, my only HDMI audio sources.

Barry,

Can you outline exactly what settings you made on your VP30/8700. I have the same setup and would like to give your changes a try.

Thanks

The only thing that matters is the VP30 output settings.
Analog/Digital = HDMI (Digital)
Format = 720p-60.
Aspect Ratio Display = 16:9
Aspect Ratio Screen = 16:9
Aspect Ratio Image shift V = 0
Aspect Ratio Image Shift H = 0
Aspect Ratio Underscan = 0
Sync Type = H+/V+
Color Space = RGB
Output Level = PC
Frame Rate 50 HZ = Unlock 59.94
Frame Rate 60 Hz = UnLock 59.94
Border level = 0
HDCP Mode = On
Display Profile Auto = Off


The important thing on the 8700 is to choose the aspect ratio to be ANA (anamorphic).

The VP 30 factory default timings for 720p are correct for the 8700 even though they are not the same as those in the 8700 service manual.

The VP30 will now put out the same timing no matter what the input is. The 8700 will now see a signal with constant timing and the ANA setting at 16:9 will cause it not to be rescaled by the 8700 internal scaler.

I am now running with all audio routed through the VP30. For my HDMI inputs (two SA8300HD DVR's) I could not get the audio to work when I set it to HDMI as the input (Firmware 1.03). It works fine if I bring the audio from the DVR to the VP30 via the Toslink connections (Audio1 and Audio2) and assign them to the HDMI1 and HDMI2 inputs. I will leave it that way for a couple of days and see what happens. I am interested in running the audio via HDMI but it is not critical to me at this time. Perhaps if and when I get additional HDMI output devices I need to connect I will need to readdress the HDMI input issue.

I am using the VP30 with nothing but SDI DVD at this time, coaxial audio from DVD player into input 3 and coaxial audio output to Sherwood P-965 Pre, the audio dropouts are frequent and annoying, sometimes the audio will dropout and never return until I unplug everything and reset :mad:, the Audio issues are not just from HDMI inputs on my setup

anyone else seeing frequent aduio dropouts and glitches on the standard digital audio inputs(not HDMI)?

-Gary

Have you tried the SDI DVD toslink output directly to the sherwood?

In my system I could not see any difference when I connected any of my input devices supplying digital audio (toslink or coaxial) out through my VP30 or around (bypassing) the VP30. My only problem is that I am getting no audio if I use the HDMI cable as the source of audio in.

I am using the VP30 with nothing but SDI DVD at this time, coaxial audio from DVD player into input 3 and coaxial audio output to Sherwood P-965 Pre, the audio dropouts are frequent and annoying, sometimes the audio will dropout and never return until I unplug everything and reset :mad:, the Audio issues are not just from HDMI inputs on my setup

anyone else seeing frequent aduio dropouts and glitches on the standard digital audio inputs(not HDMI)?

-Gary
Gary,

I have not noticed drop outs but after 1.03 I did notice one or two times where audio got a little fuzzy and lower in volumn for a few seconds but then came back. I chalked it up to a bad Netflix disc. I'll keep my eye out as I watch more. I'll get audio dropouts via toslink from my cable box but am unsure if its the box or the VP30 since the damn thing also freezes, stutters, and drops audio regularly.

Andy

I am using the VP30 with nothing but SDI DVD at this time, coaxial audio from DVD player into input 3 and coaxial audio output to Sherwood P-965 Pre, the audio dropouts are frequent and annoying, sometimes the audio will dropout and never return until I unplug everything and reset :mad:, the Audio issues are not just from HDMI inputs on my setup

anyone else seeing frequent aduio dropouts and glitches on the standard digital audio inputs(not HDMI)?

-Gary

Hi Gary,

Yes, have a look at a few posts some pages back. I and others have reported similar experiences. Fortunately, for me at least, 1.03 is better in some regards (fewer lock-ups), but the audio sucks. But, as I posted earlier, Josh-of-DVDO says that they are well aware of the problem and are working on it. Seems to be taking a long time though - but, better to be sure than sorry. For a lot of us, the audio problems got much worse rather than better with 1.03. We'll just have to sit tight for a bit longer. Completely lost sound again tonight - a few cross words were sent off eastwards across the Pacific Ocean :)

Here's my experience with 1.03 beta software:

- No audio drop outs or any other big problems, however it takes a few seconds to recognize and pass through the audio (noticeable with chapter skips and dvd menus with audio). I'm using coax and optical audio connections, no hdmi connections.
- Runs stable, no lockups whatsoever. Once had a minor quirk with the menus, but that was easily cured.

I cannot comment version 1.00 software functionality as my projector needs both syncs negative which 1.00 doesn't seem to allow.

Here's some stuff I would like to see with future software releases:

- Multipoint gamma / greyscale calibration (as Gary suggested previously).
- Finer sharpness control (as Gary suggested previously). Atleast one point between 0 and 1.
- Faster audio recognition (and fixes to other people's problems).
- Possibility to turn off the blue led!!
- Passthrough for rgbhv (it's coming, I know).
- More display profiles (if technically possible).
- Profiles for different picture control settings.

Since we're starting a wish list I'd like to just add 1/2 to 2 pixel horizontal and vertical picture shift (something like a raster shift for crt's) of the red, blue, and green signal independently.

I know this should be a function of the display but if it can be done I'd love to see it.

Thanks for the reports guys, I know it's not just me then :(

being that I am only inputting DVD, I could send the audio directly to my pre-amp and use it's audio delay feature, but in the future when more devices are added to the VP30 that ability will be negated and audio will need to be working correctly

Yes I must agree that we desperately need the following: (other scalers offer most of this already)

11 point gamma and greyscale(main priority)
separate Hue and Saturation controls for red and green(along with main hue and sat control for blue)
maybe some keystone for those digital PJ guys
finer sharpness control and maybe negative
separate Y/C delay for both channels
labeled inputs
Andy's idea is great also, I played with a Sony HS51 for a while, it had small convergence errors that shifting would have fixed

Jani I noticed between the first software and 1.03 that the VP30 now takes FOREVER to recognize and start spitting out audio with the new 1.03

I am not used to these audio problems from DVDO, my previous Iscan HD never once showed a audio problem, 100% perfection

I am also having constant menu glitching, where the VP30 will show the inputs listed twice and cover up all other menu listings, erroneous info, everything, you name it, the onscreen menus glitch almost constantly for me

-Gary

On the audio front, with audio running through the VP30 from the SA8300HD units vis toslink, I get motorboating (only sometimes) for a second or two when I change channels. I need to look further to see if its a DD to DD station change, SD to DD or DD to SD station changes. I never got that when I routed the same DVR outputs around the VP30, so it must be the VP30 and not the DVR or the Audio processor. I still can not get the DVR's audio to work through the VP30 if it is on the HDMI cable. That is a bummer. Perhaps if a re-initialized the VP30 it would clear up but I should never have to do that.

As is, the VP30 is ok but just not quite what I had hoped. No offense to any other of the folks at DVDO but I sure hope Dale has his fingerprints all over the next gen processor. I don't know what else changed in the teams but as Dale has stated he was not involved with the VP30 and it seems to show. Almost seems some algorithms changed instead of just ported over from the nearly perfect HD/HD+. I can understand some of the HDMI audio/video problems since thats new but I'm surprised that the 48Hz stutter and the coax/toslink audio problems were ever present since they were almost perfect in the HD/HD+. I guess the VP30 is more of a new machine then it would appear.

AndyN,

I actually think the VP30 does most things much better than the ISCAN HD+. About the audio problems, I think they simply didn't consider that there would be so many different variations of audio. This is a Q/A thing.

To distract from the issues of audio I thought I'd ask about something video related. ;)

How many people are making use of 480i/576i input via HDMI and what do you recon to it on the VP30?

Mostly interested in DVD sources as I'm considering a 2nd player but don't fancy spending as much as SDI would require with the HD decks on the way.

=How many people are making use of 480i/576i input via HDMI and what do you recon to it on the VP30?

Mostly interested in DVD sources as I'm considering a 2nd player but don't fancy spending as much as SDI would require with the HD decks on the way.


I am interested as well...whether to SDI my dvd player now or wait for BR players that may output 480i via HDMI. :confused:

Any thoughts out there?

How many people are making use of 480i/576i input via HDMI and what do you recon to it on the VP30?
I have a Sony DVP-NS975V feeding 480i to the VP30 by HDMI. Seems to work fine and picture quality is very good. But I have never used SDI so cannot compare it.

just ordered two sdi kits. one to experiment with on a cheaper player and one to sdi my 59avi.

480i over hdmi looks good thru my dvdo, but I just got to wonder how much better sdi is, esp. now that hd has been making my dvds look bad.

careful Ed it can become addicting ;), I will have no less than 7 SDI dvd players to sell soon, as I am running out of room :D

-Gary

AndyN,

I have an 8300HD and I also get audio dropouts. I have my audio going directly through my AVR via Digital Coax.

Since the audio is going directly to the AVR and bypassing the VP30, it has to be the 8300HD.

I just added the new IR lens. What a big difference! Now I can point the Harmony remote in almost any direction and the VP30 will respond to the commands. Just like my other components. Before the replacement I had to be in line with the IR receiver. Now I can be anywhere in that half of the condo!

I solved my IR problems temporarily by removing the current lens, boy that was one thick dark sucker, I can now hit the VP30 from the other side of the house :)

A little point gamma/greyscale and some audio bugs corrected and I am one happy VP30 camper, the SDI DVD playback is smokin'

-Gary

Has anyone tried to hook up their VP30 to a Pioneer Elite Pro 1130 HD plasma? The 1130 has a proprietary media box. I have tried hooking both my sony RDRHX715 DVD player and Comcast Motorola cable box using HDMI and get no sound. Ironically when the HDMI is hooked directly from the VP30 to my Yamaha reciever I do get sound to the receiver but the sound does not pass through to the Pioneer. I contacted DVDO and tried every possible combination but nothing worked. I have not heard back from them yet. If you plug the DVD or Motorola directly to the Pioneer media box using HDMI, sound works fine. Ironically the HDMI will pass sound to the Pioneer using the analog in on the VP30. I also should note going from my DVD directly to the Yamaha Receiver to the Pioneer using HDMI I loose audi as well. It appears to be a compatibility issue with the Pioneer media box? Does anyone have any ideas? It defeats the purpose of the 4 HDMI switch. I do get sound out from the VP30 optical and coax to my receiver, but again if you just want to use the Pioneer TV speakers no sound via HDMI! Help!

I also forget to ask, any word on those different face plates guys ?? I would love to have a gold colored brushed face plate, talk about fancy :D

-Gary

Has anyone tried to hook up their VP30 to a Pioneer Elite Pro 1130 HD plasma? The 1130 has a proprietary media box. I have tried hooking both my sony RDRHX715 DVD player and Comcast Motorola cable box using HDMI and get no sound. Ironically when the HDMI is hooked directly from the VP30 to my Yamaha reciever I do get sound to the receiver but the sound does not pass through to the Pioneer. I contacted DVDO and tried every possible combination but nothing worked. I have not heard back from them yet. If you plug the DVD or Motorola directly to the Pioneer media box using HDMI, sound works fine. Ironically the HDMI will pass sound to the Pioneer using the analog in on the VP30. I also should note going from my DVD directly to the Yamaha Receiver to the Pioneer using HDMI I loose audi as well. It appears to be a compatibility issue with the Pioneer media box? Does anyone have any ideas? It defeats the purpose of the 4 HDMI switch. I do get sound out from the VP30 optical and coax to my receiver, but again if you just want to use the Pioneer TV speakers no sound via HDMI! Help!

I spoke with Pioneer this morning and they believe it has to do with Copyright protection and the Pioneer is not getting the proper handshake from the VP30?

GAry,
I thought that you were selling your vp30,whats up?

I have been running fairly stable for about a week with firmware 1.03 so I will summarize where I am.

Four Inputs in use. Three HDMI (Two SA8300HD DVRs, 1 PC notebook output via Villagetronic VTbook PCMCIA card). One Component input (a 7 way switcher with 4 items on it in use; two DVD mega changers, Roku Photobridge Media Player, Sony PS2 ).

Audio from the SA8300HD units comes in on Audio1 and Audio2, The notebook PC hs no audio out, and the component audio comes in on Audio3. I feed my Audio processor from the VP30 Toslink output, and the projector (Benq PE8700) from the VP30 HDMI output.

The VP30 video output is set at 1280x720p, aspect ratio 16:9 (1:1.78), Frame rate unlocked at 50 hz and 60 hz. The projector has 1:1 pixel mapping with the VP30 digital output.

The DVD changers run at 480i, The sony PS2 at 720p, the Roku HD1000 at 720p and the two SA8300HD DVR's output what ever the station is broadcasting (1080i, 720p, 480i, 480p). The VP 30 does all the scaling.

Things I like: The curtains, I use them to "blank" the screen when changing inputs. The Quality of the picture is excellent (133" diagonal 1.3 gain screen in a light controlled room, seating at 15 feet from screen)

Things I don't like: Can not get Audio to work through HDMI. Perhaps have not played around with it enough. Audio sync and lock up takes way to long. There is audio drop, but I really believe it is the DVR's not the VP30. I have never heard it on the component input devices, and when I routed the DVR audio around the VP30 it was still dropping at about the same rate.

Things I want: Besides the things that do not work, I would like much faster sync of picture and audio to changed inputs. I would like RS232 commands for open curtain and close curtain instead of toggle curtain.

In general I am happy and enjoying the VP30.

...the two SA8300HD DVR's output what ever the station is broadcasting (1080i, 720p, 480i, 480p). The VP 30 does all the scaling.

How do you do that? My Moto 6412 apparently can't :confused:

I think I probably will Ed, I only use it for SDI DVD playback and at this point in time the Denon 5910 makes more sense for me

-Gary

How do I do what? If you are referring to the DVR's outputting at the transmission resolution, that is a feature of those DVR's. You can set which resolutions you want them to output at. If you set a single resolution, then the DVR scales all received streams to that resolution. If you set it to output all possible resolutions (the 4 it is capable of) then it does no scaling and just passes through whatever it received. Some units (other mfg STB and DVR's) call it "pass through" mode

How do you do that? My Moto 6412 apparently can't :confused:
No, they don't, you pick one and you're stuck with it. It will switch into 480i with SD material if you set it that way, but it will only output one HD resolution.

Apologies if this is old news to VP30 fans, but I did a search for charity in this thread and forum and came up empty.

Last month's winner picked one up for well under list: http://www.dvdo.com/charityauction/auctions.php

Tried a quick search but I need to explicitly know:

Does the VP30 do the constant height properly (stretching the image vertically for a Panamorph lens I have).

Thanks for any help anyone can give me


SY

Does the VP30 do the constant height properly (stretching the image vertically for a Panamorph lens I have).
Yes. You can set the output aspect ratio to (almost) anything you want - e.g., 2.35:1 - and the VP30 will scale the source to fit.

- Dale Adams

I'm testing the VP30 of a friend on my Sony 1292.

With 1080p@50Hz RGBHV output (upscaled from a 3D-lab dvd master outputting a YUV 576i signal) , i have modified the porch values to have a correct image size.

But... each time i turn on again the VP30 and my 1292, i have to modify the porch set-up again because the image is smaller than the screen. Each time, i lost 5cm from each side :eek:

And the setup is correctly saved :(
For example, i have started the setup with a value of 230 for one porch (front or back...) and now, after several days, the value has to be set to 180 to obtain the good image size. (the previous day, it was setup to 205...)

Serge.

Is it the consensus that upgrading to 1.03 does more good than harm? :confused:

I just installed a new VP30 that was received Monday, was ready to install 1.03, and actually info reads 1.05

We should have the new software on the website early next week.

How do you do that? My Moto 6412 apparently can't :confused:

Motorola has never allowed native mode passthru as a feature of their boxes. Maybe Tivo will solve that later.

Is it the consensus that upgrading to 1.03 does more good than harm? :confused:
It did more harm than good for my setup. I went back to 1.00

I just installed a new VP30 that was received Monday, was ready to install 1.03, and actually info reads 1.05

Mine reads 1.05 as well (just a couple of weeks old). However, I still fail to get audio sometimes. I haven't been able to figure out a consistant way to get it back yet? I've never had it drop in the middle of viewing though, only when switching inputs. Right now I have the cable box hooked up to both HDMI and optical audio and if one fails I just try the other. Usually it's the HDMI that fails, but occasionally it's the optical input.

I really love the concept, and the only execution bug I see still is audio. If a single step could reliably get it back I wouldn't worry so much, but turning on and off the VP30, TV, DVD player, cable box and receiver in random orders doesn't seem to do much. Once it's gone it just seems to be gone for a while.

I've taken to watching DVDs with both my Xbox 360 and my DVD player (hooked up to an HDMI input). Usually when the audio input fails from the DVD player I just use the Xbox 360 instead. It's all kind of bizarre though.

I don't understand how folks cannot see the color issues that weren't fixed prior to 1.03, they are nasty and 1.03 is welcome in that regard :)

-Gary

The color chart in both versions looks the same in my setup.

As posted previously with no response :

"Whilst negotiating with the VP30 via hdmi input, my Arcam DV29 Dvd player automatically re-enables progressive scan in my dvd players setup menu by itself and only allows PAL progressive only as an option, hiding the "off" and NTSC settings. ??? ( "OFF" being my prefered setting from my Dvd player to the VP30 - obviously).
Also for disk type playback, previously with the 1.00 software, I could set it to PAL , NTSC or Auto ("Auto"my chosen setting). Now it randomly selects either NTSC or PAL, no matter what type of disc I insert ?? This means, everytime I want to watch a movie I need to go into the DVD players setup and adjust its settings for proper playback. What a pain in the ass !

As a note, I live and watch PAL region 4 disks mostly but often view region 1 US NTSC disks also.

I guess , also not being able to disable progressive scan playback and send a interlaced signal to the VP30 goes against the way DVDO reccomend the signal should be sent to the VP30 !!!
I bought the Arcam DV29 player for the very reason that it can pass 480i and 576i interlaced signals via its' HDMI socket , for use with external processing . :( :(

I played around with the colour space settings and HDCP settings by turning them "on" and "off" in the VP30 setup menu and hard reset the Dvd players setup menu, but as soon as I insert a Dvd and it speaks to the VP30, it continually alters the settings ????

Why is the 1.03 software altering my Dvd players setup menu's prefered settings ?? i.e. Progressive "Off" and "Auto" for both NTSC and PAL playback ???

On my Sony 975 dvd player v1.03 would still pass 480i over the HDMi but it wouldn't pass the 5.1/6.1 sound any more. It dropped down to stereo pcm. I had to revert back to 1.00 so I could have my 6.1 sound over HDMi.

Sprky66:

Let me state first off that I am not an expert.

The only thing I can think of is the fact that the HDMI path is bidirectional for control signals. Have you tried component video just to see if the settings on your DVD player stay fixed?

Something must be going on along the HDMI channel, since that is the only path back to an input source from the VP30.

I also prefer HDMI, but it still is a bit buggy (Not only the VP30 but also the implementations by many mfg's of their HDMI interfaces and HDCP). Have you discussed this with Arcam?

Barry,
I will contact Arcams' John Dawson and see if they can resolve this issue but I believe the problem is within the VP30 HDMI input code protocol, as this issue is non-existant outside of this processor .
Via component the settings remain unchanged and work as they should. The VP30 HDMI input seems to be altering (via bi-directional communication) and somewhat confusing the Arcams' setup.
These issues were not present in the version 1.00 software and only introduced with all upgrades since !!
The only issue I had initially with 1.00 was the popping and screeching from PCM to Dolby Digital/DTS , so it seems that one problem was fixed but another was created. Bit of a hollow victory !

Also, I have been in contact with DVDO and trialling later firmware supplied by Josh , with no positive results !

I had a brief discussion with DVDO on this and they are going to look at the HDMI protocol much more carefully. I had a similar problem in that audio would not properly reset if you made adjustments within a input device and did not force an HDMI handshake. Having said that, since I know of no other component that alters its setup based on what it receives on the HDMI lines, I strongly support your discussion with Arcams. At least we (really DVDO) needs to understand what they (Arcams) are doing with information they get from the VP30.

It is unfortunate but true that many times we the end user must bring the two parties together to resolve an issue that one or both of them are having with each other

I was contemplating adding a VP30 to my theater set up. I have plenty of HDMI units (JVC HM 5U, Onkyo SP1000, HD TIVO, DirecTV H20, and soon a HD DVD player). I currently switch them thru my Onkyo TX1000. I do like the concept of the VP30's HDMI switching (4/1). The main reason holding me back is all the work involved with making sure this unit will work. Maybe I am lazy, but I just don't want to get it all hooked up only to have audio,HDMI, color, and other various difficulties that fellow forumers are experiencing. I was hoping to get a 1.03 unit, now I should hope for a 1.05? Then I am almost certain I will have to install a 1.07 in the near future. DVDO's effort is not questionable. They seem to have the best CS in the biz. I just think I may hold out awhile longer and see if another video processor will be more bug free. Besides, I only watch HD in my theater now (besides dvds thru the Onkyo SP1000). That's the beauty of technology. There is always something else around the corner...

I am running the VP30 with a beta test release of the firmware. It looks very very good, both audio and video. I am running HDMI inputs with the audio coming in on the HDMI cable. All my video and audio now goes through the scaler. There is a little slugishness on audio sync, but nothing major. I beleieve they want to make sure they have it properly presented so that all sorts of pops, screeches and motorboating do not occur. With encoded digital (DTS, DD (AC-3) ) you can get all kinds of crap if the audio stream is tweaked with in almost any manner. I have seen DTS go to white noise just because a processer messed with the volume in the digital domain not realing it was an encoded signal. It may even be an issue with my sources as both HDMI audio sources are identical.

I have no issue with componet audio running with digital coaxial audio.

I really like the VP30 because it transcodes all inputs to a fixed output if that is what you want. This allows you to achieve total digital paths. In some cases my system is digital (no A/D D/A) for the full path (cable head end through DLP projector); in others there is some digital domain scaling, and in others there is transcoding with an analog to digital conversion.

There are some very minor problems with Audio but I believe the major Audio problems are behind them. I believe this latest firmware release will be available this coming week.

We will have software version 1.06 on the website Monday, Tuesday at the latest.

I am surprised that nobody has noticed the change that I made to the opening post of this thread. :D

Is it your pricing available late April statement? Does that mean all the kinks will be worked out by then? Seriously, if I purchased a unit this week and made sure it had the latest firmware version would it most likely be trouble free?

Sneaky Josh, very sneaky! ;)

Glad to see it's official now. :D

Is it your pricing available late April statement?
Pricing should be available late this week.
Does that mean all the kinks will be worked out by then?
Yes, all the kinks should be worked out before then.
Seriously, if I purchased a unit this week and made sure it had the latest firmware version would it most likely be trouble free?
Yes, you will be able to install this card in ANY iScan VP30 although you may have to install new software to support the new features (but that is easy).

Cool....Count me in then...

• ABT’s Precision Video Scaling II technology – 10-bit
• Motion and source adaptive video deinterlacing for NTSC (3:2 and 2:2 pulldown; video) and PAL/SECAM (2:2 pulldown; video) sources (SiI504)

Upgradeable to ABT's Reference SD Deinterlacing technology (as shown at CES 2006 vs. DCDi and HQV)

•SD(480i/576i) Source, Motion and Edge Adaptive Deinterlacer
o Five-field motion adaptive deinterlacingo Edge adaptive processing to produce smooth diagonal edgeso Three frame video processing delay (Max)o Game Mode with very low latency (sub-1 frame delay)
• Arbitrary cadence detection (any:any) to detect non-standard cadences in input signals.
o Reliable 2:2 pull-down detection for 50Hz countrieso Detection of 2:2 to/from 3:2 crossfades and out of phase 3:2 crossfadeso Detection of multiple source types within a frame for example video titles over film o Bad edit detection and compensation to minimize artifacts caused by sequence breaks in film content
Stay tuned for pricing, Available Late April!!! :D


In case anyone missed it, it was 85 pages or so ago.

Yippee!!!

I had heard about the stuff they were showing at CES and some crazy poster even started a thread about this that was locked down a few weeks ago but, I was hoping for this announcement.

If this new scaling engine can improve on the DVD performance then thats going from great to even greater. I am hoping that the main purpose of the upgrade is to improve the VIDEO based programming and standard def stuff where the combing issues are very bad but, a result of the old technology of the chip being used.

At this price point and with a product that is shipping and not vaporware, I think the VP30 with their reference SD scaling technology just made this the scaler to own.

I am much happier to know that the improvement in scaling is now around the corner. Good Job Josh and DVDO.

I had heard about the stuff they were showing at CES and some crazy poster even started a thread about this that was locked down a few weeks ago but, I was hoping for this announcement.

If this new scaling engine can improve on the DVD performance then thats going from great to even greater. I am hoping that the main purpose of the upgrade is to improve the VIDEO based programming and standard def stuff where the combing issues are very bad but, a result of the old technology of the chip being used.

At this price point and with a product that is shipping and not vaporware, I think the VP30 with their reference SD scaling technology just made this the scaler to own.

I am much happier to know that the improvement in scaling is now around the corner. Good Job Josh and DVDO.

Thank you for the compliments, but to be clear this is a deinterlacing upgrade.

Does this mean that one of its its prdominant uses will be on a DVD output at 480i? That is what my DVD changers put out. I do not watch much SD on the TV system, so It may not be an issue to me for the DVR's. All other inputs are 720p

Anybody that has a source outputting 480i or 576i will benefit from this upgrade to their iScan VP30.

It doesn't help with 1080i then?

Do we need to wait for the 'vp40' for this? ;)

This upgrade to the iScan VP30 is for SD deinterlacing, hence the name:

ABT's Reference SD Deinterlacing

I sure hope this is priced VERY reasonably and provides a real difference in picture quality, because frankly 480i sources continue to become a smaller segment of my HT especially with HD DVD coming out this year. About everything else for me (Sat, XBOX 360, etc.) is mostly HD and would not benefit from your upgrade. Now a HD deinterlacer would be another story.... SJ

Beta software version 1.06 (available tomorrow at http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp30.php, Tuesday at the latest) does address the reported audio issues in 1.03 (and even 1.05). Additionally, we have expanded the Display Profiles from 4 memories to 10.

HD-DVD and BluRay will be out this year but as far as I know, neither has announced a simultaneous release of the complete DVD library at launch (or any time soon) so 480i/576i deinterlacing of SD-DVD and SD content in general will still be important until ALL content is HD. As always if you purchase this upgrade from dvdo.com, you have 30 days to decide for yourself how dramatic the improvement is.

Actually, 480i is what the majority of ALL viewing is done in. DVD's are 480i and so is just about all SD television and cable broadcasts so, this is a welcome improvement.

Josh: Will this new upgrade bypass the current SO/DCDI chip in the unit? May I ask which company is the chip being manufactured by?

Hey Josh,

Does any of the new software/hardware also include a non-linear stretch mode that was mentioned last month?

Thanks
glenn

Josh: Will this new upgrade bypass the current SO/DCDI chip in the unit? May I ask which company is the chip being manufactured by?

This upgrade will totally bypass the SiI504 (Silicon Image) Deinterlacer in the the VP30.

SO = Silicon Optix
DCDi = Genesis (Faroudja)

ABT=Anchor Bay Technologies, or the company that engineers/manufacturers/markets/sells DVDO brand products

ABT's Reference SD Deinterlacing technology is what is on this card.

Josh, is DVDO also working on 1080i deinterlacing for a subsequent chip, or were all of your efforts focused on SD deinterlacing?

We (ABT/DVDO) also demonstrated 1080i deinterlacing at CES. This technology will not be available for the iScan VP30.

We (ABT/DVDO) also demonstrated 1080i deinterlacing at CES.

With this chip, or with a prototype intended for another chip? I guess I'm confused.

Will this chip that you're releasing next month deinterlace 1080i at all using the current "bob" method, or not even? What happens when a 1080i signal is input into the VP30?

With this chip, or with a prototype intended for another chip? I guess I'm confused.

Will this chip that you're releasing next month deinterlace 1080i at all using the current "bob" method, or not even? What happens when a 1080i signal is input into the VP30?

I edited my post above to be more clear.

This is an upgrade that replaces the SiI504. THe SiI504 does not deinterlace 1080i. The iScan VP30 field-scales a 1080i signal, although we are considering adding a pass through mode (in addition to a general pass through) which only goes into effect when the input is 1080i (please don't ask for an ETA, I will post here when it is concrete).

Josh@DVDO

All sounds interesting. But......I guess we'll wait for the 1080i solution just a tad longer.
I know more info will come out soon but will the upgrade allow for more functionality as well like the ones listed a few pages back by Gary? ( I think gamma, color adjustments, RGB shift for convergence, etc?)

Very Very interesting, DVD playback right now with the SiI504 and DVDO's new 10 bit scaling combined with a SDI mod to a Panny DVD player is amazing with Film sources, truly the best DVD playback I have ever seen, Film movies are unbelievable

Video DVDs look pretty bad though, 99% of my viewing is films though

Are you DVDO guys saying that you are actually going to improve Film DVD playback over the current VP30 ?? :eek:, if so I will have to check this out :)

We really need point Gamma/Greyscale adjustments and Sat/Hue for red/blue/green to top this off, this would allow our displays the ultimate in precision calibration and playback quality

you DVDO guys continue to amaze me ;)

-Gary

I apologize in advance for the dumb question but I am just starting to learn about scalers and video processors, primarily through this thread. I had decided to pull the trigger tomorrow and purchase the VP30 for my Hitachi 55hdt51 plasma (1366 x 768) when I came across a post that stated that Hitachi plasmas will not accept native rate in from a scaler. Is this true with respect to my plasma and, if so, does this mean that that the primary benefits of the VP 30 would not be realized with my plasma? I was hoping that the VP30 could improve my SD cable channels and take my 2910 Denon DVD picture to near HD levels.

This is an upgrade that replaces the SiI504.

so it's the long delayed "Si505" ? :p

honestly I'm okay with no 1080i deinterlacing. The current DVDO is almost a perfect SD processor except video. Now with this upgrade I hope it will solve this. Josh are you willing to divulge how it will fare on the HQV test disk ? (i.e. the famous rotating bars/moving bars, those wierd cadences ? ) From the description of this upgrade it looks like it's specifically designed to handle those !

Will AVS do a power buy ? :)

so it's the long delayed "Si505" ? :p

honestly I'm okay with no 1080i deinterlacing. The current DVDO is almost a perfect SD processor except video. Now with this upgrade I hope it will solve this. Josh are you willing to divulge how it will fare on the HQV test disk ? (i.e. the famous rotating bars/moving bars, those wierd cadences ? ) From the description of this upgrade it looks like it's specifically designed to handle those !

Will AVS do a power buy ? :)

So to the novice people here (me) just what does this new feature do? I have the iScan HD+ and was wondering if there is a big improvement in PQ with the VP30 over the HD+?

1080i deinterlacing(1080i to 1080p) is basically just that, just like with 480i to 480p, it is a deinterlacing process of the 1080i signal so that it can be displayed on the new 1080p display devices with the best picture quality

unless you have a 1080p display device or want to convert 1080i to progressive resolutions with the best quality(1080i to 720p etc.) then you don't need it

-Gary

I am going to order that HQV disc and have it ready before this update is released :)

I forgot to add something else
Robert, that depends on your display alot also, the VP30 has DVDO's new 10 bit Precision II scaling inside(same as the 3500$ Denon DVD-5910) and boy does it look good

I had the HD+ a few months back with SDI DVD into the same display, so I cannot do a head to head comparison with it and the VP30, but I DO NOT ever remember the HD+ giving quite as good results with SDI DVD as the VP30

I would say that the HD+ was 90 to 95 % as good as the VP30 in the terms of scaled 1080i DVD playback picture quality from SDI

True 1080i HDTV sources were improved also when using the VP30, mainly due to the underscan and other adjustments

I am using a 9" CRT RPTV

if anyone wish's to use the VP30 with a CRT RPTV you will reap huge picture quality benefits from reducing overscan to 1% or less as CRT RPTV's have massive 5% overscan or more :mad:(A fully calibrated set should come out to around 4%)

-Gary

I am going to order that HQV disc and have it ready before this update is released :)

I forgot to add something else
Robert, that depends on your display alot also, the VP30 has DVDO's new 10 bit Precision II scaling inside(same as the 3500$ Denon DVD-5910) and boy does it look good

I had the HD+ a few months back with SDI DVD into the same display, so I cannot do a head to head comparison with it and the VP30, but I DO NOT ever remember the HD+ giving quite as good results with SDI DVD as the VP30

I would say that the HD+ was 90 to 95 % as good as the VP30 in the terms of scaled 1080i DVD playback picture quality from SDI

I am using a 9" CRT RPTV

-Gary

Thanks for the information. I also wanted to know where to buy or who makes a DVD player with SDI out? I don't recall ever seeing one in a retail store.

Robert, you need to send your current player off to be modified or purchase a pre-modified player, you are looking at around 450$ to send your current player off or around 300$ to 400$ to buy a pre-modified player(you can find great deals sometimes for these under 300$)

I actually have one for sale right now over on the For Sale area, as does another poster

My Kenwood 5700:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=654475

A Panny RP82:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655463

check here or videogon.com regularly for SDI DVD players being sold from individuals

-Gary

Robert, you need to send your current player off to be modified or purchase a pre-modified player, you are looking at around 450$ to send your current player off or around 300$ to 400$ to buy a pre-modified player(you can find great deals sometimes for these under 300$)

I actually have one for sale right now over on the For Sale area, as does another poster

My Kenwood 5700:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=654475

A Panny RP82:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655463

check here or videogon.com regularly for SDI DVD players being sold from individuals

-Gary

All this is new to me. :) Is there a huge difference in PQ using a SDI out to an iScan HD+ or VP30 (with SDI)? I see there is a Denon DVD-1920 with SDI on eBay FYI. Thing is I don't mind spending a fair amout of money for these toys but then I expect to see some improvements.

Robert any video discerning person will notice a decent upgrade in quality when going from analog component outputs of a DVD player to SDI, some more than others, it's all a combo of player quality, display quality and the person

what you get with going to SDI is a serious reduction of noise and edge artifacts(that aren't on the DVD image itself), creating a smoother more detailed colorful 3D image, it's like removing a layer of haze from the image (that was added by the chain of conversions inside the DVD player and it's component output)

-Gary

Robert any video discerning person will notice a decent upgrade in quality when going from analog component outputs of a DVD player to SDI, some more than others, it's all a combo of player quality, display quality and the person

what you get with going to SDI is a serious reduction of noise and edge artifacts(that aren't on the DVD image itself), creating a smoother more detailed colorful 3D image, it's like removing a layer of haze from the image (that was added by the chain of conversions inside the DVD player and it's component output)

-Gary

I found the SDI option for my HD+ on eBay for like $250 and I assume this is an easy mod. I really don't know a thing about your SDI player for sale is that a good one? How about the Denon DVD-1920?

I had heard about the stuff they were showing at CES and some crazy poster even started a thread about this that was locked down a few weeks ago but, I was hoping for this announcement.

He was not crazy just stating the obvious....

Daniel.

This upgrade will totally bypass the SiI504 (Silicon Image) Deinterlacer in the the VP30.

SO = Silicon Optix
DCDi = Genesis (Faroudja)

ABT=Anchor Bay Technologies, or the company that engineers/manufacturers/markets/sells DVDO brand products

ABT's Reference SD Deinterlacing technology is what is on this card.

Can you confirm it uses the big bad connector near the SI504 ?, So it will be a user
installed upgraded like the sdi card ?

Daniel.

so it's the long delayed "Si505" ? :p

honestly I'm okay with no 1080i deinterlacing. The current DVDO is almost a perfect SD processor except video. Now with this upgrade I hope it will solve this. Josh are you willing to divulge how it will fare on the HQV test disk ? (i.e. the famous rotating bars/moving bars, those wierd cadences ? ) From the description of this upgrade it looks like it's specifically designed to handle those !

Will AVS do a power buy ? :)

Dale posted the results of the new chip with the HQV disc it was ok on all tests. With some remarks. It passed these tests many months ago and i can't see how it got worse.

I hope that the moderator doesn't mind me pasting a large part of Dales comment but i figured it would be good to have this in this thread. If its a problem i will reedit this post.

-----------

I have to apologize for taking so long to get the HQV disc test results posted. Due to a comedy of errors (e.g., jury duty, wrong shipping address, etc.) I only received the latest disc version (1.4) yesterday. So, instead of 2 days, it took me 2 weeks. Anyway, without further ado, here are the relevant test results for the new deinterlacer which is currently under development at Anchor Bay Technologies (ABT):

Color bar/vertical detail: 10/10
Jaggies 1: 5/5
Jaggies 2: 5/5
Flag: 10/10
Film detail: 10/10
Film cadence: 40/40
Scrolling text: 10/10
Credits: 10/10

In short, it passed everything.


Notes:

1) The Picture Detail and Noise Reduction tests were not run as they are not tests of deinterlacing performance. (There are other video processing algorithms and hardware currently under development at ABT, though, and I hope to report more test results in the near future for at least some of these tests.)

2) On the moving-bar jaggies tests, the ABT deinterlacer looked better on low angles than the images of what consisted of a passing grade. I.e., the bars were smoother than the low-angle portion of the images shown on the disc as receiving a score of 5. This was determined by frame-capturing single output frames from the ABT deinterlacer which matched the evaluation image so that static frames could be compared in detail.

On the Flag test, the diagonal performance was more mixed, with some edges looking a little better than the 'Score of 10' image some looking a bit worse. (Again, a single frame capture was used to compare images in detail.) The stars in the flag looked a bit better on the ABT deinterlacer, particularly with respect to motion. Overall it was about a wash (although this is definitely a subjective judgment, so treat it accordingly).

3) I believe that the Film Detail test has been changed from previous versions of the HQV disc. I tested an earlier version some time ago and found that the looping image sequence broke the 3:2 pulldown pattern when the scene repeated, with a resultant 'bad edit' of something like 3:2:2:3:2 (although this is from memory, so the actual sequence may have been slightly different). The ABT deinterlacer tracked right through that bad edit (in other words, after the initial start of the sequence, it never lost lock at all, even at the 'bad edit' loop point), something which I haven't seen any other deinterlacer do (e.g., the one in the Denon 5910). This doesn't happen on the version 1.4 disc, so I assume the 'bad edit' at the loop point was made worse, presumably by introducing a single field into the sequence - i.e., something like 3:2:3:1:3:2. The ABT deinterlacer briefly (and correctly) loses lock when there's an instance of a original film frame being represented by only a single field. Prior to testing this latest version, I would have given the ABT deinterlacer a score of 15/10 as it did better than the test scoring system permitted. That's not the case on the latest disc version, however, so it 'only' gets a score of 10/10.

4) As shown in the scoring, all the cadence tests passed. The ABT deinterlacer will actually track more cadences than those specific ones in the test, as the list of test cadences leaves out some important variations.

5) The scrolling text and credits tests are a bit more subjective than most of the others, as the tester is called upon to make judgments as to what "smooth and crisp" text looks like, or what constitutes a "scan line artifact". So, take these scores as also being more subjective.

6) The test setup consisted of a proprietary hardware platform for the ABT deinterlacer. The deinterlacer was fed a 480i HDMI signal from a Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player, and the output images were viewed on a Sony GDM-FW900 CRT display.


These test results are intended to give you an idea as to what level of performance you can expect to see come from ABT (which produces the DVDO line of home theater products) in the future. It is intended as a sort of 'sneak preview' only. I will not comment on when this will be available, what form in which it might be available, future products, upgrades to existing products, or similar topics.
-------


Daniel.

Yes, it does install using the connector by the SiI504 and it uses two standoffs like the SDI input module. It is easier to install in that there is no bulkhead to mount on the back panel.

Yes, it does install using the connector by the SiI504 and it uses two standoffs like the SDI input module. It is easier to install in that there is no bulkhead to mount on the back panel.

Nice, I am sure alot of people will complain that it doesn't do 1080i but i expect in time you will do a nice upgrade to the vp40.The amount of hardware (this and the small led fix) and software updates show you are doing your best within reason and we apreciate is. I do feel you need to remove the non-linear scaling comment from your specs since its been there from the start and still not part of the product.

Daniel.

I still think I will wait for Greg Rogers review (WSR) before I purchase.

Thanks for all the info Danielo

Robert the most important thing with SDI DVD player is the quality of the Mpeg decoder inside
the best players are( you will notice with internet researching that these all contain Panasonic mpeg decoders, except a few :) ) :

(all USA models, overseas there are equivalents)

Panny
-rp82
-rp91
-rp56
-rp62
-cp72
-cp67
-xp50
-xp30
-h1000
-h2000

yamaha
-s2300
-s2300mkII
-cx1

kenwood
-dv5700

denon
-1600
-3300

Philips
-963SA

Oppo
-OPDV971H

maybe a few more I forgot, the new Mediatek chips are supposed to be good also, like in the Oppo(which is SDI modifiable)(I added it to the list)

-Gary

In the UK forums the Philips 963SA is considered to be the best (affordable) SDI DVD player on the market for image quality.

Yep the Philips is considered and said to be good, it requires a alternative mod that for simplicity sake doesn't need to be explained in detail, more expensive to mod either way you go at it

I would love to see that one though

-Gary

Well, I got my Philips on Ebay for cheap and installed the PixelMagic SDI mod myself. Good price, great picture quality!

Thanks for the information. I also wanted to know where to buy or who makes a DVD player with SDI out? I don't recall ever seeing one in a retail store.

Check http://www.jvb.nl/ for SDI players or to have a player modified. They have an office here in the US.

I still prefer the Philips 963 over the likes of the Oppos and Panasonic players for SDI. It is the best picture I have seen, though those other players are also excellent.

Will there be an early order discount on the new deinterlacing card, and any ideas on price yet?

maybe a few more I forgot, the new Mediatek chips are supposed to be good also, like in the Oppo(which is SDI modifiable)Gary, pretty good list, but I'd like to mention that the equivalent EU models with same MPEG decoders (for example RP82 <-> RA82 which I have) are also good players. But I understand that those can be pretty hard to find in North America. ;) Just a reminder for people living somewhere else.

Yeah the price is going to be the interesting bit, somewhere between the cost of the SDI card and the VP30? :D

Although at least with the SDI card you could take it out and put it in your next DVDO upgrade, the "ABT's Reference SD Deinterlacing technology" should already be included in the next box so I hope the trade-in price will reflect if your VP30 has it or not.

If after updating to 1.06 and re-wiring the VP30 again (plus putting all the settings back, must remember to use the handy data sheet this time ;) ) it all behaves nicely then I'll sit back and look forward to the release.

Hai,

I personally also think the denon 2900 is a good starting point myself, the decoder might be a little (not much) less than the 1600 it has alot of nice things to make up for it like the very fast menu system and no layer changes way better build and many mod options. I use a somewhat less than default denon 2900+sdi+heavy audiomods+psu changes+vp30 myself.

Daniel.

I have been running fairly stable for about a week with firmware 1.03 so I will summarize where I am.

Hi, newly registered, but lurker for years. ;)

Just been reading about issues with the DVDO VP30 and wanted to report that I've been happy with the first week of use.

Purchased from OneCall, and received software version 1.05.

Target screen is a Zenith Z50PX2D, which AFAIK only accepts max 1280x720 over HDMI, yet the test patterns suggest is being scaled internally by the TV. At the moment, I'm having to use HDMI because Media Center Edition PC is a Sony VAIO XL1 with HDMI and component outputs, but if the PC is set in HD resolutions, it will only output DVD video over HDMI. Granted, I could drop the resolution, but I also watch WMV HD and prefer the PC interface in higher res. And I could use the Toshiba DVD instead of the 200 DVD changer, but that defeats the purpose of the changer. Note: This issue (HDMI not accepting 1366x720) is shared by a number of the 50" plasmas.

I'm feeding the VP30 with:

PC: HDMI 720p + HDMI audio
TiVo (Toshiba DVR+DVD): Component 480i + Toslink
TiVo (Series II): S-Video + Analog Stereo
Xbox 360: Component 720p + Toslink

The VP30 manual tells you to use the lowest quality output from a natively standard definition device (preferably 480i), so you use the scaling and PQ correction in the DVDO to its best advantage. TiVo at 480p through the VP30 to the plasma looked essentially the same as without the VP30. TiVo at 480i through the VP30 looks like HiDef. The improvement is jaw-dropping, even on the TiVo generated GUI screens. (Note, however, that the generic Series II TiVo over S-Video does not look as good as the 480i component output from the Toshiba TiVo. The generic series II looks grainy and jagged by comparison.)

Contrary to other posters' experiences, audio is not an issue for me. Assuming I don't want to fire up the amp, I let the TV play audio it receives over the HDMI cable. The DVDO VP30 correctly translates all the other audio sources, both digital and analog, into the signal necessary for the HDMI audio to TV. I had no issues assigning audio inputs to match video inputs, and I haven't had any audio glitches.

Update: Should've knocked on wood--after trying to setting Sony VAIO XL1 from 5.1 to 7.1 this evening, lost audio from PC over HDMI to VP30. All other sources and the HDMI from VP30 to TV continue to work fine. Two hours of resetting didn't help.

Addressing performance, the VP30 takes considerably longer to "sync" to the HDMI input from the PC than it does to sync to other sources. This may be because I had the PC set to a resolution just slightly less than 1280x720 (the custom HDMI output video card from Nvidia supports arbitrary resolutions to address aspect ratio and overscan/underscan). After reading posts today, I'm going to spend the time to test the syncing at a standard 1280x720 to see how that fares.

At the moment, I still feel that the de-interlacing and scaling done by the MCE with the custom Nvideo card connected directly to the TV is comparable to the DVDO VP30, but this is most likely because of my familiarity with the original setup and the scan matching I did between the PC and TV before the VP30. When time permits, I expect to look at outputting from the PC's DVD mode in 480i and letting the VP30 scale it as it does the TiVo. (As a bonus, this should let me remove HDMI from the mix.) Again, 480i is what the manual recommends for a standard DVD player, and I'll be curious to see if that holds true for a PC version as well.

I do not believe that you should be using the lowest quality output from a device. I believe the best result is obtained when you do not let the input device do any scaling, and just pass the signal into the VP30. For a DVD player this is 480i since that is what is recorded on the DVD. For a DVR or STB, it is the native signal received by the device without adjustment. That is, if the signal comes in at 1080i or 720p (common for HD) DO NOT let the device change it to 480i. Just give the original "Unmolested" signal to the VP30. This is not possible on all DVR's or STB's if they only allow a single output resolution. In that case I would choose that which is most commonly viewed, or the one that if scaled by the device looks the worst.

I just realized I am sitting with a Panasonic RP62 modified for SDI. I have not used it in about 2 years. I got it when I bought an HDLEEZA a long time ago. It came with the HDLEEZA as a marketing promotion and was modified for SDI by KDS. I then sold the HDLEEZA but kept the RP62. I am going to set it up in the Theater to try it out. I do not know if I really need it (I run 2 Sony DVD mega changers at 480i with a very nice picture and very good sound).

My understanding is that with the SDI output, the quality of the DVD player is less important. As long as it plays the DVD at the correct speed, and does not screw up the spinning platter there is very little mod to the signal train after it comes off the DVD. It is already digital on the DVD, just optical. All that is really needed is an optical to electronic conversion and a formatting all of which should be in the digital domain ergo; no loss, no noise. Am I correct in my assumption?

The data on the DVD is compressed. So even with a SDI mod the DVD player still has to decode the data. That is done by the MPEG2 decoder. So the image quality you get from SDI modded DVD players does differ, depending on how good the MPEG2 decoder is.

But isn't the mpeg decoder operating in the digital domain? If so, then decoding the compression (even though it is lossy) should come out the same, Unless there are different algorithms in use by different mpeg decoders.

But isn't the mpeg decoder operating in the digital domain? If so, then decoding the compression (even though it is lossy) should come out the same, Unless there are different algorithms in use by different mpeg decoders.

Some decoders use the wrong algorithm and lead to problems like CUE.

Yes, some MPEG2 decoders are buggy. But I think even with bug free decoders there are some quality differences. E.g. it seems that some decoders show mosquito noise more clearly than others. I guess it has to do with rounding errors or such things. Also the chroma upsampling can be done by using different (correct) algorithms, I believe. So there is potential for differences, too.

We really need point Gamma/Greyscale adjustments and Sat/Hue for red/blue/green to top this off, this would allow our displays the ultimate in precision calibration and playback quality
Lumagen's 2/5/11 point parametric grayscale calibration, Y/C-delay calibration, and gamma calibration are excellent ... but sadly lacking from VP30 (today). I hope that DVDO can deliver full saturation, hue, gamma, and color correction control capabilities with a firmware update.

But in the meantime, extremely high quality SD deinterlacing would be very welcome, as will 'Reliable 2:2 pull-down detection for 50Hz countries'.

StooMonster

Jani I totally forgot about the Euro models, there are plenty of them and one even for the Kenwood 5700

Barry mpeg decoders vary vastly between models, everything from detail to color to CUE errors

worry not though, it doesn't get much better than the RP62 ;)

-Gary

Software versions 1.05 (Production) and 1.06 (Beta) are now available:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

v1.05 is still doing the same thing as v1.03 It won't pass the 5.1 DD /6.1 DTS over the HDMi with my Sony 975 DVD player, only pcm stereo. It will pass the 5.1 DD from my HDTiVos but then there isn't any sound when in the TiVo menus. I'll have to try the Beta 1.06 and if that doesn't work I'll have to go back to v1.00 with the 1080i update since that seems to be the only version that works correctly for me.

The beta 1.06 is definately handling DD over the HDMI link. I have uncovered one abnormality which has been reported to DVDO. If you switch to an input device sometimes the HDMI connection is not reinitialized, that is the source is not forcing the VP30 to reinitialize the HDMI link or the VP30 is not reinitializing properly.

I have seen this when playing back my DVR material and switching between the two DVR's each of which is on HDMI. I am pretty sure I have seen it within a recording and I am skiping a commercial (which is in DD 2.0 or PCM) while the main show is in DD 5.1. If I backup and skip again it generally resets the sound. It does not happen all the time just occasionally

I have a couple of questions? I'm currently using a Sony 999es dvd player thru the Component out sending 480i to the VP30. VP30 goes 1080i via HDMI to a Sony KDSR50xbr1.
After reading the posts about SDI, would I expect to see a significant difference switching to a SDI player from the sony? (WAF factor here about why I'm replacing a perfectly good dvd player.....)

Also, the new VP30 deinterlacer, does that allow SDI into the VP30 with that upgrade, or would I also have to purchase the SDI upgrade to the VP30?

Thanks for the assistance!

The beta 1.06 is definately handling DD over the HDMI link. I have uncovered one abnormality which has been reported to DVDO. If you switch to an input device sometimes the HDMI connection is not reinitialized, that is the source is not forcing the VP30 to reinitialize the HDMI link or the VP30 is not reinitializing properly.

I have seen this when playing back my DVR material and switching between the two DVR's each of which is on HDMI. I am pretty sure I have seen it within a recording and I am skiping a commercial (which is in DD 2.0 or PCM) while the main show is in DD 5.1. If I backup and skip again it generally resets the sound. It does not happen all the time just occasionally
I never had that problem in v1.00
v1.06 has finished loading so I'll try that now.

Forgot one other question. Which input would be better with the VP30?
SDI or HDMI from a DVD player?

CRAP!! Now I get no audio from my HDTiVos over HDMi and I still only get PCM over HDMi with my Sony 975 DVD player. I guess it's back to v 1.00 with the 1080i update. This is a little depressing. Why will v1.00 pass DD 5.1/DTS6.1 over HDMi on my Sony DVD player but the later versions won't do this? I can live with no audio from my TiVo menus in v1.03 and 1.05 but v1.0 gave me audio in my HDTiVo menus and DD 5.1 over HDMi. Why does the 1st version work for me but I keep having problems with the later firmwares?
I don't understand.

Why does the 1st version work for me but I keep having problems with the later firmwares?
I don't understand.

Would you believe it is because we added support for HDMI Compliance as a Repeater and in turn we are HDMI Compliant, to spec. This should expand the compatibility with HDMI devices, but as you can tell from mixed reports based on sources, you end up finding all of the "HDMI-Compliant Non-Compatible" devices. We believe that we do have a solution for this and I will post when this is available for Beta.

bprager, you need the SDI input card
SDI 480i is better than HDMI 480i, HDMI is not pure because for one thing it has HDCP added, just one example

-Gary

I upgraded to 1.0.6 and, as usual, I had no audio problems for a little while. However, eventually I switched from Comp. 1 (Computer) to HDMI 2 (Cable) and lost audio. Since my wife had shown me that we don't really lose audio on all channels I experimented. Certain channels sync up the sound fine but the others simply do not. At some point it magically started working again (without switching devices at all, although I was switching to channels with different output resolutions). Turning off and on components does not seem to fix the problem (including the VP30 itself). Next time I will try physically yanking the power cord from the VP30 and plugging it back in. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me this clearly looks like a VP30 bug.

Update: I got it to happen again (getting better at picking the channel order that does it maybe) and pulling the power on the VP30 and plugging it back in fixed the problem. I didn't touch any other devices.

Would you believe it is because we added support for HDMI Compliance as a Repeater and in turn we are HDMI Compliant, to spec. This should expand the compatibility with HDMI devices, but as you can tell from mixed reports based on sources, you end up finding all of the "HDMI-Compliant Non-Compatible" devices. We believe that we do have a solution for this and I will post when this is available for Beta.

Thanks for the explanation.

I hope this is the right forum for this question. I'm now considering having my Oppo DVD player modified for a SDI output and tonight I ordered the SDI option for my iScan HD+. I wanted to know if anyone here has had this done by JVB Digital and if so how did it work out for you?
http://www.jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=dvdplayers&page=title&title=327

Gary, you mention that the mpeg decoding is critical for the SDI output. Any recomendations as to brands/models that have known good mpeg decoders?

Gary, you mention that the mpeg decoding is critical for the SDI output. Any recomendations as to brands/models that have known good mpeg decoders?
Just read back one page!

How difficult is the installation of an SDI board into the VP30? Where will the BNC connector be? Anyone have a picture of the back of a unit with the SDI board installed?

Is anyone going to be at EHX on Friday 3/31/06?

Barry,

The installation of the SDI board is a lot easier than the uninstallation (I had to move mine from my original iScan HD). Basically you remove the cover (once you're grounded), remove a small blank panel from the back of the VP30, install the SDI card via plastic standoffs to the main board (there's a plug already there), then run a short BNC-BNC cable from the board to the back of the SDI input. The input connector is a female-female that's secured with a locking nut, IIRC.

Here is where it is on the back of the unit. (http://www.dvdo.com/documents/iScanVP30_BACK.pdf)

You'll be happy with the results. Make sure you get a good SDI cable -- I got mine from from Bluejeanscable.

-John

John,

Thanks

Barry mpeg decoders vary vastly between models, everything from detail to color to CUE errors

worry not though, it doesn't get much better than the RP62 ;)

You may be thinking of the RP82. The RP62 has an inferior MPEG decoder that produces a softer picture.

I don't think the RP62 SDI picture is any softer, but it does crop pixels on the left and right as well as comb more on subtitles.

The RP91, 82 and XP50 all use the same MPEG decoder.

The RP56 and 62 have the same decoder.

I agree with SS, the RP62 is the top of the heap in SDI modified players, the RP56 is the same as it uses the same mpeg decoder

Josh the RP82/91 decoder is better though, not arguing that ;)

-Gary

Well I sent my Oppo DVD player off today to be fitted with SDI. It costs a bunch and I just hope it's worth it. :)

Well I sent my Oppo DVD player off today to be fitted with SDI. It costs a bunch and I just hope it's worth it. :)

Well atleast you can call yourself a old school sdi user like the rest of us. sounds alot better than dvi or hdmi. Also you can use a cable that stays in even if you swing the vp30 at the end of it. But really with the new deinterlacer chip coming the sdi will atleast make sure you will have clean signal for it and it frees up a hdmi in on the unit.

Daniel.

Well here I am sitting with a SDI modified RP62 and just realized that my VP30 does not hace SDI input. Now the real question is - do I wait for the VP40 and get it with SDI or do I upgrade the VP30 and hope that I can move the upgrade tp the VP40 if and when. Anyone know the answer to that?

Although I do have this one SDI DVD player I never use it since all my DVD's are stored in Sony megachangers. I have not seen a link to upgrade them to SDI so does any one know if the CX875P megachangers can be SDI modded and if so where?

The next question would be Blu-Ray and SDI.

SDI would be for 480i products only, blu-ray and HDTV sources need HD-SDI (which is very close now), I think some scalers are on the market that will already accept it, not sure ??

the DVDO SDI card will no doubt work with anything ABT make's and have made for the forseeable future, it was made for the Iscan HD and is compatible with the HD+ and the VP30 ;)

The Sony's can be modifed :)

http://jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=sdi&page=title&title=188

-Gary

Thanks Gary.

At $449 +S&H per changer Plus $400 for the SDI mod to the VP30, I think I will stay the way I am. I actually get a very acceptable picture out of the Sony units on component at 480i scaled by the VP30 to 1280x720.

what kind of display setup do you have Barry ??

-Gary

The Projector is an ISF calibrated BenQ PE8700. It is about 2 years old. Lamp has about 300 hours on it. It is throwing about 15 feet onto a 133" diagonal (10 feet wide) unity gain screen in a totally light controlled room. The native resolution is 1280x720 and the VP30 is pixel mapped to the projector. I am thinking of changing the screen fabric (it is a fixed mount system with a 2" square steel frame and velcro all around the frame and on the back of the fabric, then framed with flatblack molding 3"wide) to have more than a unity gain. The room is 16 feet wide so I am not worried about off axis light fall off.

Pics can be seen at www.the-gordons.net. Read page 1 at web site to get info on userid and password, then drop down to bottom of page for links

Also you can use a cable that stays in even if you swing the vp30 at the end of it.
Daniel.
:D :D :D

Barry you have a very very nice setup and would most certainly see a benefit from the SDI mods, mainly in the form of noise being eliminated from the image and added details that component output just cannot show(we are not talking about 3000$ DVD players here, with excellent analog sections)the best SDI players are usually lower priced DVD players like we are buying :), this is why SDI mods reveal much better picture that is laying under the haze of the component outputs!!

other options are available to lower cost's, MSB tech does SDI mods for 385$ and free shipping back and the DVDO SDI card can be had for way way under 400$ MSRP, try ebay :)

I love a cabinet system like that, but they are big $$
I am a DIY type and while I can build a room onto a house with carpentry skills, the amount of detail that would go into cabinets is beyond my abilities and patience :D

nice setup!!

-Gary

Gary,

Thanks for the compliments. It took a long time but I have what I want well at least for this week). I need to think about the SDI. I will probably need an SDI switcher, but I know they are around.

a Extron from ebay would take care of that, high end made in USA electronics will last until the end of time and in the case of extron sell for pennies on ebay

-Gary

Well here I am sitting with a SDI modified RP62 and just realized that my VP30 does not hace SDI input. Now the real question is - do I wait for the VP40 and get it with SDI or do I upgrade the VP30 and hope that I can move the upgrade tp the VP40 if and when. Anyone know the answer to that?

Although I do have this one SDI DVD player I never use it since all my DVD's are stored in Sony megachangers. I have not seen a link to upgrade them to SDI so does any one know if the CX875P megachangers can be SDI modded and if so where?

The next question would be Blu-Ray and SDI.

Personally i think they will take the sdi card with them to the vp40, don't see why they would change that part of the design.

Daniel.

Barry,
Very very impressive. I especially like your home automation stuff. This is also a hobby of mine, but WOW you really have put something special together. SJ

Well here I am sitting with a SDI modified RP62 and just realized that my VP30 does not hace SDI input. Now the real question is - do I wait for the VP40 and get it with SDI or do I upgrade the VP30 and hope that I can move the upgrade tp the VP40 if and when. Anyone know the answer to that?

Although I do have this one SDI DVD player I never use it since all my DVD's are stored in Sony megachangers. I have not seen a link to upgrade them to SDI so does any one know if the CX875P megachangers can be SDI modded and if so where?

The next question would be Blu-Ray and SDI.

Sony Mega Changer SDI upgrade.
http://www.jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=sdi&page=title&title=186

http://www.jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=sdi&page=title&title=269

Well atleast you can call yourself a old school sdi user like the rest of us. sounds alot better than dvi or hdmi. Also you can use a cable that stays in even if you swing the vp30 at the end of it. But really with the new deinterlacer chip coming the sdi will atleast make sure you will have clean signal for it and it frees up a hdmi in on the unit.

Daniel.

New deinterlacer chip? Is that going to be an upgrade for the HD+ or are we talking about the VP30?

Sounds like the VP30.

Any guess on what a VP40 will sell for? My guess is $2499.95. :)

I'll be looking forward to upgrading especially if they continue their generous trade in program when you upgrade.

Hmm I was wondering if it's possible to have a satellite receiver fitted with SDI out?

Hmm I was wondering if it's possible to have a satellite receiver fitted with SDI out?

very possible, not much is ever said about this though

a little internet digging and you should come up with something

I have heard mostly talk of SDI modifying the Directv Tivo's

-Gary

Barry, you could just find the DVDO board for cheap (even in the UK I've found it well below that price) and just try out your other player.

Gary, in the UK we can get SDI modded Sat. PVRs, there's only really one company and a couple of boxes in the UK anyway for Sat. so fairly easy for the modders (and no HD yet either :rolleyes: ).

The expense is putting me off at the moment and I may just go the 480i HDMI route with a cheap 2nd player instead (save the dosh for HD sources coming this year) but I haven't written it off yet. ;)

The only reason I can see of DVDO not using the board in future products is if they add a HD-SDI board instead or provide more then one SDI input.

I just bought a DVDO SDI board (new) on eBay for almost one half the normal price.

Let me see if I have this right:

Everyone agrees that 480i HDMI dvd player is inferior to SDI player for a VP?

To achieve SDI to display requires:
1) SDI modified dvd player
2) SDI modified VP
Total cost could easily amount to $600 or more...

480i HDMI Sony 975 dvd player can be had for about $150 and can be plugged into any HDMI VP....

hummmmmm.....

Have I missed something?

@oink, using 480i HDMI can be inferior to SDI, and often it is, but it doesn't necessarily have to. I think 480i HDMI can never be better than SDI, though (if the SDI mod works correctly). And as a nice bonus you don't have any problems with HDCP when using SDI.

Hmm I was wondering if it's possible to have a satellite receiver fitted with SDI out?
This is commonly done in the UK with users of Fox's Sky+ (that's for SD SDI) - I haven't heard of HD SDI mods yet ..... a google with SKY SDI mods should give you some websites to have discussions with...

New deinterlacer chip? Is that going to be an upgrade for the HD+ or are we talking about the VP30?

See first message in this thread, dvdo just anounced a chip upgrade to the SI504 inside the vp30 to one of their own design.

Daniel.

Oink most would fully agree with madshi, SDI is the way to go, it is purer in application

-Gary

I used an SDI input for almost 4 years then got the Sony 975. The SDI picture is a little better, but not $600 better. I went through a couple of SDI players the last one was an RP82 which I used for 3 years it was a good player but there were some convenience features that were lacking with it that the Sony 975 has. Plus the 975 will put out the 6.1 audio over the HDMI. These factors led me to sell my SDI player and DVDO SDI module. For me I don't watch as many DVDs as I used to. I think part of the reason is that I'm waiting for HD DVD/Blu Ray for some of the newer movies. But what I do watch on DVD, the 975 does a great job. I had decided last year when I got my VP30 to spend the extra money on an HD DVD player and the Sony 975 instead of staying with the SDI route. The less cables I have to run the better.

480i HDMI Sony 975 dvd player can be had for about $150 and can be plugged into any HDMI VP....A few notes:

1. Not all scalers accept 480i HDMI.
2. Analog output isn't allowed with HDCP protected HDMI signal.
3. I believe this model is available only outside Europe (?) and other players outputting 480i via HDMI are quite expensive.

Is firmware 1.05 any different from the beta 1.03? The feature list looks the same to me. Has anything been changed or fixed?

A few notes:

1. Not all scalers accept 480i HDMI.
2. Analog output isn't allowed with HDCP protected HDMI signal.
3. I believe this model is available only outside Europe (?) and other players outputting 480i via HDMI are quite expensive.

I heard OPPO is supposed to be coming out with an HDMi player that will output 480i over the HDMi.

I heard OPPO is supposed to be coming out with an HDMi player that will output 480i over the HDMi.

Yes, their upcoming OPDV970H model has been announced with this feature.