I can feed the DVI cable with a switcher, or any one of half a dozen other sources and it works just fine to the projector, with or without a Gefen DVI repeater in the path. But no way no how can I get the VP30 to operate feeding the Ruby's DVI port.

Does anyone recognize this symptom and have a solution for it?


Hi Bill,
I tried a couple of converters (plugin and 3" hanging cable type) on the end of my existing DVI-DVI cable but didn't have much luck, in the end I swapped over to my DVI-HDMI cable and reversed it so I was using the DVI at the PJ end and HDMI straight into the VP30, worked a treat.

Did you test out the DVI cable with the converters attached on the other gear?

The buttons and silk screen are black and the badge is silver/black on the new front panel. The top cover is not replaced.
Josh,

This may sound a little crazy but have you guys thought of building an independent add-on of your new ABT102D-card The Precision Deinterlacing Card?

My thoughts wrap around the fact that when I owned an SXRD it didn't need any help doing an HD movie in the sweet spot - plenty of wow factor and neither does a Q006 - it's heaven but the missing equation is watchable SD - the set was hell.

I realize you guys may fold this product into a VP40 but if I buy a $7K 70" SXRD it seems more practical to fill the gap with SD for a grand or so unless of course the next gen SXRD throws in the Ruby DRC Chip?

Any thoughts along this line as most large panels really suck with SD. Thanks :D

Josh,

I could have sworn I posted this.

On Tuesday night I watched TV and all was well (some audio dropouts, but I am not sure whether that is the Cable or the VP30. Some day I will do a real test with audio through vs around the VP30 a week each way with detailed records.)

When I turned on the system on Wednesday, there was no Audio from either of the two DVR's. I did a power cycle on the vP30 (Unplug, re plug) and all was then okay. I touched nothing else.

When my system shuts down it does not power off (Set to standby) the VP30 or either DVR; likewise when it powers up it does not do anything (standby to powered) to the VP30 or the DVR's either.

There was no reason I could see for the Audio to become non functional. Audio is via the audio inputs, video is via the HDMI cable. As far as the system was concerned at least one DVR was always active (current input) with the VP30, but the display was powered (standby) down. I guess it is another HDMI problem.

On Tuesday night I watched TV and all was well (some audio dropouts, but I am not sure whether that is the Cable or the VP30. Some day I will do a real test with audio through vs around the VP30 a week each way with detailed records.)

When I turned on the system on Wednesday, there was no Audio from either of the two DVR's. I did a power cycle on the vP30 (Unplug, re plug) and all was then okay. I touched nothing else.

When my system shuts down it does not power off (Set to standby) the VP30 or either DVR; likewise when it powers up it does not do anything (standby to powered) to the VP30 or the DVR's either.

There was no reason I could see for the Audio to become non functional. Audio is via the audio inputs, video is via the HDMI cable. As far as the system was concerned at least one DVR was always active (current input) with the VP30, but the display was powered (standby) down. I guess it is another HDMI problem.

Barry, one thing I can do in my setup to determine where the audio dropouts lie is Tivo's instant replay. Sure enough, a portion of the time, the audio was never there for the iScan to drop, and a few other times, the DVDO clearly glitched a bit as the repeat playback was perfect. (Note, my setup has HDMI-based audio input from HD Tivos and then TOSlink audio ouptut.)

Similarly, I've experienced the "come back to the TV" and find there is no audio problem a couple of times. Power-cycling the iScan has tended to solve it. But the problem has been a bit more mysterious on my end in that it has (a) selectively affected just one of the inputs and (b) has at least once allowed regular satellite channel sound to emerge, but not digital terrestrial-channel sound to emerge.

As per Josh's remarks above, I'm going to say I have no doubt the problems are being worked on and will be solved. It can't be easy to track down exactly what's happening given its intermittent nature, but I'm sure that will come in time. The 99+% of the experience that's bug free is quite a joy, visuals-wise, audio-wise and switching-wise.

Similarly, I've experienced the "come back to the TV" and find there is no audio problem a couple of times. Power-cycling the iScan has tended to solve it. But the problem has been a bit more mysterious on my end in that it has (a) selectively affected just one of the inputs and (b) has at least once allowed regular satellite channel sound to emerge, but not digital terrestrial-channel sound to emerge.
To possibly make this a little less mysterious - when I've seen something like this on my HDTiVo, I've found that my SD channels would lose sound, and my HD channels would still work. I'm guessing this has something to do with DD vs PCM(or however sound on SD channels are encoded) signals. I don't know if I've ever seen it the other way (HD no sound, sound for SD), but it is possible. I always fix this by changing my audio input on the VP30 to another input, and then back to the one I was using. So far, that has always brought my sound back

Some comments on this forum have suggested that we make the audio delay feature work as well as it worked in the HD and HD+. This is exactly what we are working to achieve. But The VP30 audio delay function includes an expanded feature set by adding audio input and output from HDMI and analog inputs in addition to the digital audio sources supported in the HD and HD+. This expands the number of conditions and cases to consider in the design and the amount ot testing that must be done. I offer this not as an excuse, but to explain why the VP30 is a different design.
One thing I've been wondering about. The new HD-DVD and Blu-ray players will output 5.1 channel digital PCM audio over HDMI. The maximum supported rate is 24/192, but it's unlikely there will be any content at that rate in the near future. Will the VP30's HDMI switching be able to pass this audio to a receiver? Will the audio delay be correctly applied to it? Just wondering if DVDO is aware of this and is prepared for it.

I could have sworn I posted this.

You probably did. See the announcement at the top of this and every forum regarding missing posts.

Josh,
I could have sworn I posted this.


You're not going mad Barry. ;)

I think AVS was going a bit funny, the time stamp on your original was in the future. I think they've cleaned up and deleted some posts, one of mine went as well from another thread. :(

Even though I do not use my VP30 for audio, I have noticed the audio dropout in the following situation. This may or may not give DVDO and some of the forum members some insight into the problem.

I have a Denon 3910 attached to the VP30 via HDMI and output via HDMI to a front projector. Also input to the VP30 is an SVideo from my Rotel processor for the sole purpose of viewing the onscreen setup menu of my processor and finally my CLD704 LD player via composite to the VP30.

The stereo outputs from the 3910 are connected to the CD input of the processor. I receive a .5 second dropout continuously every 2 seconds whenever I switch the VP30 to either S-Video or Composite video which seems rather odd when I am listening to a CD with the 3910. It will keep on doing this until I switch out to HDMI or shut the VP30 off.

Oh....my firmware version is 1.05

I am running 2.35:1 CIH, switching to 4:3 and 16:9 results in having the side masks in a faint but very noticeable gray hue, it appears as if projector light panel leaks outside of the mapped region. VP30 states that images are not actively mapped to these area, which is great, but is there a way to completely darken, perhaps 0,0,0 color to the mask areas? So, when I switch to watch a 16:9 or heaven forbid, 4:3, I won't see any hints of light to the mask areas.

Appreciate any inputs.

Thanks,


Steve

Hi Bill,
I tried a couple of converters (plugin and 3" hanging cable type) on the end of my existing DVI-DVI cable but didn't have much luck, in the end I swapped over to my DVI-HDMI cable and reversed it so I was using the DVI at the PJ end and HDMI straight into the VP30, worked a treat.

Did you test out the DVI cable with the converters attached on the other gear?Yeah, the cable is fine. I did discover last night that if I connect the VP30 (converted to DVI) into my DVI switcher and let the switcher drive the cable to the projector, everything works perfectly.

I still don't understand why, if the VP30 can drive a 36' HDMI cable, it can't also drive a 33' DVI cable without locking up. According to my pinout charts, it's a pin for pin connection between the two connectors. Nothing fancy.

Perhaps the HDMI transceivers in the VP30 have a current limiting mechanism which it isn't handling correctly?

Josh, do you know?

--Bill

I am running 2.35:1 CIH, switching to 4:3 and 16:9 results in having the side masks in a faint but very noticeable gray hue, it appears as if projector light panel leaks outside of the mapped region. VP30 states that images are not actively mapped to these area, which is great, but is there a way to completely darken, perhaps 0,0,0 color to the mask areas? So, when I switch to watch a 16:9 or heaven forbid, 4:3, I won't see any hints of light to the mask areas.Have you set border level to 0 in the output setup menu?

Have you set border level to 0 in the output setup menu?
You actually want to set it to -16. A border level setting of zero is the black level (16 for an 8-bit signal, 64 for a 10-bit signal), and you probably want to get it blacker than black. -16 is as low as it will go and this will give you a Y or RGB output level of literally zero.

- Dale Adams

You actually want to set it to -16. A border level setting of zero is the black level (16 for an 8-bit signal, 64 for a 10-bit signal), and you probably want to get it blacker than black. -16 is as low as it will go and this will give you a Y or RGB output level of literally zero.

- Dale Adams

Blacker than black...I like that. Will try -16 tonight, I guess 0 is not default cause I didn't mess with it initially.

By the way, what constitute a 10-bit signal, HD?

I got ABT102 on pre-order and I am told mid April, can't wait.

Thanks guys,


Steve

Blacker than black...I like that. Will try -16 tonight, I guess 0 is not default cause I didn't mess with it initially.
Zero is the default setting for the border level, but as explained earlier that's a level of black, not an absolute numerical value of zero for the digital video pixel data. Black is not a value of zero for the pixel data.

By the way, what constitute a 10-bit signal, HD?
The output of the VP30's image processing is a 10-bit signal. The VP30 has 10-bit DACs which are fed the full 10-bit output resolution. HDMI also has a 10-bit option and the full 10-bit resolution is available there as well (at least for YCbCr 4:2:2). There are some input devices which will send out a 10-bit signal over HDMI, but I believe most are still 8-bit. Future HDMI devices will support 10 and 12-bit resolutions for both 4:4:4 YCbCr and RGB.

- Dale Adams

yeah ,,, VP30 just arrived!!! sorry had to do it"

I once had a bumper sticker that read "He who dies with the most toys wins". I came home one day to find my wife's car with a new bumper sticker that read: "The woman who buries the man with the most toys really wins!"

barrygordon,

She's Right:)

Okay I ran some tests. With audio running around the VP30 I get no audio dropout from the DVR's connected via HDMI, unless the picture is also tearing up.

With Audio running through the VP30 and watching a pre-recorded show, or using the replay capability of the DVR and backing up past where the audio dropped and replaying it, I did not once get an audio drop the second time (on replay).

My conclusion now is that in my case it is the VP30 dropping audio and not the DVR's. I am now still running the audio through the VP30 for better lip sync, but am getting ready to set up the lip sync delay (fixed) in the Audio processor and perhaps go the other way. the VP30 no longer gets the benefit of the doubt on the audio drop problem.

Hi guys, thru HDMI can the VP 30 fully process the 12bit component of the pioneer 79 or just the component colourspace?
Thanks.

I upgraded my VP30 with V1.05 hoping that the firmware update would solve the HDMI handshaking issues with my BenQ PE8700 (the VP30 would never automatically set up a link when the BenQ was turned on, something my HD+ never had issues with). The firmware update solved that problem (thanks), but introduced another. Now my Sony NS975 DVD player HDMI audio is no longer recongnized (I had to plug in an audio digital cable to get sound again). I have tried soft and hard factory resets to no avail. I also continue to have random losses of video connections to my Sony HD-SAT300 via DVI (requires a restart of the VP300 to get a picture again).

The HD+ was a wonderful product, I went to the VP30 to get switching for multiple HDMI/DVI sources. Here is to hoping that a firmware update will solve these obviously difficult to debug HDMI connection issues.

A fan of DVDO but not a fan of HDMI, Layne

I have a benq PE8700 and never had any issues with it. I connect it to the VP30 via and HDMI/DVI cable. I do have HDMI issues but thay are not relative to the projector (Display) but rather to the input sources.

The benq is 1:1 pixel mapped to the VP30 and shows a stunning picture on all my digital inputs with almost as good a picture on component. In fact to see the difference you have to walk up to the screen.

I upgraded my VP30 with V1.05 hoping that the firmware update would solve the HDMI handshaking issues with my BenQ PE8700 (the VP30 would never automatically set up a link when the BenQ was turned on, something my HD+ never had issues with). The firmware update solved that problem (thanks), but introduced another. Now my Sony NS975 DVD player HDMI audio is no longer recongnized (I had to plug in an audio digital cable to get sound again). I have tried soft and hard factory resets to no avail. I also continue to have random losses of video connections to my Sony HD-SAT300 via DVI (requires a restart of the VP300 to get a picture again).

The HD+ was a wonderful product, I went to the VP30 to get switching for multiple HDMI/DVI sources. Here is to hoping that a firmware update will solve these obviously difficult to debug HDMI connection issues.

A fan of DVDO but not a fan of HDMI, Layne

I have to use v1.00 to have my Sony 975 dvd player pass the 5.1DD/6.1 DTS over HDMi.

I own the Optoma H78DC3, Oppo 971 with SDI mod, Pioneer 79avi, and the VP30 and was wondering where I go to find the procedure for 1:1 pixel mapping. I keep hearing about the importance of this procedure but I have not run across any source for how to do it. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Set the VP30 to output 720P and then set the H78 to Native (not 16:9).

Do as suggested. Then use the test patterns supplied in the VP30 config menu to check it out. The two key patterns are the horizontal and vertical line patterns where every other line is on.

I set the VP30 output to match my display (1280x720p) and got vertical to be perfect. It then took me a while to figure out what I needed to do to get the projector (Benq PE8700) to stop helping (running its internal scaler). For some reason an aspect setting of ANA on the projector as opposed to wide is what did the trick. I found it by accident. Once you get the 1:1 mapping it will stay that way always, independent of input. At least in my case it does. the suggestion to set the H78 to native sounds right (causing the PJ to stop scaling). Report how you make out

I'm getting close to buying the VP30 but before I do that I was wondering what issues the VP30 still has and are there any show stoppers?

I'm getting close to buying the VP30 but before I do that I was wondering what issues the VP30 still has and are there any show stoppers?


You are kidding right? 110 pages and you are asking if there are any show stoppers. Please.

I was able to get my hd+ to work with a non hdcp compliant display using a hdcp stripper before the input. Now, with the vp 30, I cannot get it to pass a signal using the same set up. Must be the hdmi thing.

I'm sick of all the issues that copy protection has caused for me. I've bought several movies two three, even four times. Now I can't even watch the ones I have.

I think the vp30 will have to go back.

what good is a fantastic vp is you can't get a picture from it?

hdmi is a show stopper for me.

I was able to get my hd+ to work with a non hdcp compliant display using a hdcp stripper before the input. Now, with the vp 30, I cannot get it to pass a signal using the same set up. Must be the hdmi thing.

I'm sick of all the issues that copy protection has caused for me. I've bought several movies two three, even four times. Now I can't even watch the ones I have.

I think the vp30 will have to go back.

what good is a fantastic vp is you can't get a picture from it?

Well that would be a bummer to me for sure.

hdmi is a show stopper for me.
Yeah well it's starting to effect a lot more people now, and they are starting to get a lot more mainstream bad press about it now as well. And if it starts to get bad enough to the point where it hits enough people who have some power behind them. Then I'm guessing that sooner or latter the MPAA and others are going to be told to back off on forcing this kind of BS upon us.

http://businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2006/tc20060406_234270.htm

I've bought several movies two three, even four times.

I thought that was just a George Lucas thing ;) I think I have at least 4 distinctly different versions of the original Star Wars trilogy. I almost bought T2 for my PSP this weekend, just for a joke, and so I could have a 5th version....

But I am surprised you are having problems with your stripper. The Ophit does the trick for me, between stb and the VP. Now you are scaring me, that perhaps it won't work for whatever I buy down the road.

You are kidding right? 110 pages and you are asking if there are any show stoppers. Please.
Well it works fine for me with the occassional audio drop. I'm thinking maybe once every few hours now.

Not many people are going to read 110 pages so it was a legit question, and in a lot of ways I think much of this monster thread should have been split into threads for the specific issues & questions as its impossible to digest the whole beast now.

Apologyze if this has been asked before. But is not easy to navigate and read all 110 pages of discussion.

Here it goes: I'm using DVDO iScan HD+ now with NEC XG135LC. Output rez is 720p. I have DVD connecting through DVI and for HD source are pass trhough. I have Sony HDR-HC1 HDV camcorder outputting 1080i and XBOX360 outputting 720p for HD source, both passthrough.

My question is how will the VP30 handles 1080i signal? Understand that VP30 will "processed" it, but if say I only want to set my PJ in 720p, what happen with the 1080i signal? Does VP30 still need to "deinterlace" the 1080i first as the output signal is progressive eventhough the output is not 1080p but 720p?

Thanks in advance.

...

Has anyone else noticed RF bleeding from the VP30? I have a URC MRF-300 and it goes crazy when I turn on the scaler. When the scaler is off things are fine. I never had any trouble with my HD+ and I just wanted to know if I was the only one with this problem.

haven't noticed it with mine, and it is surrounded by a lot of different pieces, a number of which are pretty susceptible. Assume you've tried the obvious (cables, and connectors?)

Unfortunately, Yes I tried all the connections in the back.

what happen with the 1080i signal? Does VP30 still need to "deinterlace" the 1080i first as the output signal is progressive eventhough the output is not 1080p but 720p?
...

No it doesn't deinterlace. Dale commented it will "scale" directly from 1080i to 720p.

yes, it does need to deinterlace, bob/weave, before, or as, it scales to a progressive output from 1080i. That's how it gets from i to p.

Thanks c&22 and occamd..

Yet, it get me more confuse. As to what I know to get from i to p it will need to be de-interlace. Also from previous discussion in the forum (can not recall exactly thus cmiiw) 1080i will be deinterlace to 540p and than scale tp 720p. Hence, my concern is that from 1080i to 540p there will be some information "lost" which will somehow degrade the pics quality.

Is my concern valid?

Thanks!

...

I think we really need a FAQ at the begining of this thread, which could be used to update DVDO's FAQ too (as it's a little outdated now ;) ).

Any mods want to volentire? :D

(At least a gathering of some of the excellent detailed stuff from Dale and a summary of current issues would be good, I've been reading this from the start so can remember bits here and there but it's not easy to find again :rolleyes: ).

PS Thanks DVDO for the email advert for the ABT102D, least I know I'm registered, just awaiting details for the UK.... and a working VP30... come on UPS/Customs clear my parcel!! :(

PPS Word on the UK forums recons Owl Video will be charging £115 + postage + VAT with stocks in May, yay! :)

1080i will be deinterlace to 540p and than scale tp 720p. Hence, my concern is that from 1080i to 540p there will be some information "lost" which will somehow degrade the pics quality.

...

U r more or less correct, that 1080i -> 720p involves discarding some pic info.

Althought 1080i doesn't have to ->540p 1st. It can directly scale a 1080i to 720p, effectively "bob" in one step.

This is what Dale said :


Taking each field and scaling (aka, interpolating) it to a progressive frame is precisely what the 'bob' deinterlacing technique does (assuming you also account for the vertical shift between even and odd fields).

U r more or less correct, that 1080i -> 720p involves discarding some pic info.

Althought 1080i doesn't have to ->540p 1st. It can directly scale a 1080i to 720p, effectively "bob" in one step.

I think you're interpreting what Dale said incorrectly. The "bob" process only scales from one 540-line interlaced field in the 1080i signal. So yes, information is being lost.

I think you're interpreting what Dale said incorrectly. The "bob" process only scales from one 540-line interlaced field in the 1080i signal. So yes, information is being lost.
Not really. All pixels of the original source are shown. The original source is 1080i60, that are 60 interlaced fields, each of which 1080x540 sized. As far as I've understood it, the VP30 outputs each interlaced frame scaled to the desired output resolution. So strictly you can't say information is being lost. What you can say is that the approach of the VP30 is not the best possible solution. There are more clever ways to handle the interlaced fields. E.g. for film content you should do reverse telecine.

FYI:
DVDO please note that the iScanVP30 owner's manual p.24 has an error. As follows:

"Factory Default"
In the following section:
"The default factory settings are as follows:
• Input Aspect Ratio: 16:9

The input aspect ratio actually defaults to 4:3. At least it does on my unit, when I reset it to the factory default settings. :rolleyes:
The output Aspect Ratio defaults to 16:9, stated correctly in the manual.

Paul

As I experiment with different possible settings on the VP30, I'm keeping the signal totally in the digital domain, from DVD to projection.

DVD (NTSC) 480i native, > Oppo (SDI = DVD 480i native), > VP30 > HDMI 720P (Marantz native) /DVI, > Marantz VP-12S2 projector.

The most dramatic improvement in the picture so far, using VP30 adjustments, comes from changing the VP30's "Color Space" output from RGB 4:4:4 to YCbCr 4:4:4, and in turn changing the projectors "DVI systems" input from RGB, to YCBCR.

There was a deeper 3 Dimensional image that I ever thought possible, richer color and slightly sharper (more focused). A pleasant surprise and amazing to my eyes! :eek:

Is YCbCr 4:4:4 in the digital domain, superior to RGB 4:4:4, or just in my setup?

Paul

Paul,

RGB is better, but since the source, plus all the processing, is done in YPbPr colorspace, your display is getting its most accurate results from your unit in YPbPr.

It's interesting, I never thought about trying this myself, but this trick should work on all processors, not just on the VP30.

Well, most (all?) displays in the end show RGB data. So someone somewhen has to convert the YCbCr source to RGB. If the display is doing a good job with this conversion, it might be a good idea to feed it YCbCr. However, there's also a good argument for letting the VP handle it, cause it's quite possible that the VP does a better job at doing the color space conversion.

FWIW, Panasonic plasmas are said to look slightly sharper when getting feeded RGB from an external VP.

It's definately a good idea to keep the whole chain at YCbCr up until the VP, I think. The big question is just whether you let the VP or the display do the color space conversion. Probably it's not possible to find a general rule here. I think it depends on the VP/display combination.

While awaiting Mr UPS with my VP30 replacement I was thinking whether it was possible physically (don't think it's selectable in the current firmware) to use the Audio input from a HDMI connected source to pair up with the Video input (component) from the same source?

Odd config I know but it'd save another digital cable and input to the VP30.

Basically going to connect a HD mediabox to the VP30 via HDMI (for HD files) and Component (for 480/576i SD files to utilise the ABT102D) but wanted to save a cable audio wise as the mediabox outputs audio via HDMI all the time, even when Component output is selected.

They might of course manage to add SD over HDMI in the future but as many other devices don't do SD/HDMI it might be a handy option (if it's physically possible in the hardware ;) ).

Ailean, you can't select HDMI as a audio source from another input other than that HDMI input :(

-Gary

Well, most (all?) displays in the end show RGB data. So someone somewhen has to convert the YCbCr source to RGB. If the display is doing a good job with this conversion, it might be a good idea to feed it YCbCr. However, there's also a good argument for letting the VP handle it, cause it's quite possible that the VP does a better job at doing the color space conversion.

This is the case in my situation. I have the VP30 connected to a Mitsubishi HC3000, and the projector displays horrible artifacts when sending it a YCbCr signal. The RGB conversion in the VP30 is much better.

In the manual it states that the coaxial inputs will accept a sampling frequency between 24Khz and 192Khz. And the optical inputs will accept a sampling frequency between 24Khz and 96 Khz. What about the outputs? Are the optical outputs also limited in the same way? I'm just wondering because of the HD DVD players when they output PCM. Of course this is assuming that the VP30 will take the HDMI PCM audio and output it over the optical/coaxial outputs. If the optical outputs have the same limit then I need to run a new cable for the VP30 Coax output to accomodate this HD DVD player I'll hopefully be receiving soon.

In the manual it states that the coaxial inputs will accept a sampling frequency between 24Khz and 192Khz. And the optical inputs will accept a sampling frequency between 24Khz and 96 Khz. What about the outputs? Are the optical outputs also limited in the same way? I'm just wondering because of the HD DVD players when they output PCM. Of course this is assuming that the VP30 will take the HDMI PCM audio and output it over the optical/coaxial outputs. If the optical outputs have the same limit then I need to run a new cable for the VP30 Coax output to accomodate this HD DVD player I'll hopefully be receiving soon.

Those are the physical upper limits of the two interface standards and I think they refer to stereo PCM only. I'm not certain what the VP30 will do with the new multi-channel high sample rate DD & DTS tracks on those players.

You'd need a new decoder at the amp end too but I suspect only the HDMI out will retain those formats.

Not certain thou as I've not read up that much on Dolby Digital Plus (??) and the DTS one and how they are packaged.

The HD DVD player can decode the new codecs and output as a 5.1 PCM signal over the HDMI. Later versions, once they have HDMI 1.3 can send the new codecs over HDMI to be processed by an outboard processor.

Guys I was extremly lucky enough to be contacted to be a beta tester for this card and received my beta a few days ago, I am going to put a few select thoughts here on this card

first off, OMG this thing rocks :eek:

(I am going to refer to the SiL104 as the "SI" in my thoughts below)

my display chain is:

Iscan VP30 at 1080i connected via HDMI>DVI to my Mitsubishi 65813 with 9" CRT's

basically we have identical film performance to the SI, the same nice clear detailed image but with slightly improved diagonals, less combing, better detection and you get the idea

I was viewing the film "Cape Fear" the scene where De Niro is talking to Lange in his Red car by the mail box, the top edge of his convertible windshield shows more diagonal jaggies on the SI and looks much better on the new 102, also this scene has a combing artifact that is less pronounced on the 102

I also tested the Film "Executive Decision" which seems to have some sort of flag problem with extreme jumping and combing, check out the opening scene where Russell is in the airplane, the 102 seems to do slightly better than the SI with this problem DVD, less combing and loss of detection than the SI

basically we have the same great film performance with the improvements above :D

on to Video and this is where things get unreal

the 102 destroys the SI on video, I was viewing the DVD, Peter Frampton Live in Detroit, guitar strings are a tough DI for these fellas, the 102 passes this with flying colors, diagonal guitar strings are clean with only the occasional slightest hint of jaggies, a close up of Frampton in his blue jeans shows such a clean jaggie free image that you can make out the individual stitches on his jeans, the SI in this regard is a total mess, video is just nasty on the SI and looks worlds better on the 102, it looks so much smoother and more detailed with no jaggies

one last test was the high bitrate moving zone plate in AVIA, if you want to see how much of a difference there was between the SI and the 102, this is the test, the moving zone plate is clean as a wistle on the 102 with only occasional loss of detail, this pattern on the SI is a total joke of a mess

Guys this 102 is a revelation and it is worth every penny of the asking price and I am sure that there is even more benefits for Pal users, the release date of this thing cannot come soon enough

I applaud DVDO is every way with this new product

thats pretty much all I will say at this time, I just wanted to merely comment on picture quality of the unit

-Gary

one last test was the high bitrate moving zone plate in AVIA, if you want to see how much of a difference there was between the SI and the 102, this is the test, the moving zone plate is clean as a wistle on the 102 with only occasional loss of detail, this pattern on the SI is a total joke of a mess

Oh that is sweet. So sweet. The moving zone test is a major deinterlacing challenge. The DCDi chip in my DVD player is better than the 504 on the moving zone test, but the results would not be construed as "clean as a whistle" by anyone. The 102 is going to rock. I can't wait to toss the HQV and Microsoft discs at it.

Thanks for the in depth review, Gary. You lucky devil.

- Collin

The HD DVD player can decode the new codecs and output as a 5.1 PCM signal over the HDMI. Later versions, once they have HDMI 1.3 can send the new codecs over HDMI to be processed by an outboard processor.

I thought I'd heard that would happen, in which case as I mentioned above only the HDMI output from the VP30 will retain the audio (hopefully ;) ).

Neither Opti or Coax SPDIF have the bandwidth/mode for more then stereo (i.e 2 channel) PCM at those rates. You'd need a Firewire Audio output on the VP30 to convert from HDMI to a format that could carry that audio data to a non HDMI amp (i.e. as used for DVDA and SACD players).

If the VP30 does delay on 5.1 pcm hdmi inputs then some converter box on the output to put out Firewire would work for a lot of current amps. Fingers crossed this works and gefen do a nice 1:2 hdmi splitter with Firewire ouput! ;)

Guys I was extremly lucky enough to be contacted to be a beta tester for this card and received my beta a few days ago, I am going to put a few select thoughts here on this card
-Gary

Well now I've got a working vp30 again I've pre-ordered the card! :)

Out of interest Gary can you tell us the firmware version that comes with it and have you noticed any other changes/fixes compared to the current 1.05/1.06?

Oh that is sweet. So sweet. The moving zone test is a major deinterlacing challenge. The DCDi chip in my DVD player is better than the 504 on the moving zone test, but the results would not be construed as "clean as a whistle" by anyone. The 102 is going to rock. I can't wait to toss the HQV and Microsoft discs at it.

Thanks for the in depth review, Gary. You lucky devil.

- Collin

Collin the moving zone plate is very clean indeed, I was amazed, the 102 loses the detail and flickers very rarely on this, compared to the SI which is constantly flickering with noise and detail is lost 100% of the time

really amazing

-Gary

Gary: what firmware version came with the card? Did it improve or correct any of the HDMI audio issues. Finally, can you try running 480i via component or HDMI into the new card and see how it compares with the SDI modded players you tested?

Just wondering if the new card puts the DVD playback near SDI quality without using SDI.

I am not going to say anything else about the 102 until after release, other than my picture quality comments above

-Gary

Thanks for the update Gary, does anyone know when they will start shipping?

Thanks for the update Gary, does anyone know when they will start shipping?

Ship Ship Ship Ship .....

Ehmm sorry :).

thanks for the second review on this, good to see dvdo send out beta versions
to a few testers with many toys. I can't wait to put the dl card in my vp30.

Daniel.

I am wondering how big of a difference it will make on my 120.5" screen....

Has anyone else noticed RF bleeding from the VP30? I have a URC MRF-300 and it goes crazy when I turn on the scaler. When the scaler is off things are fine. I never had any trouble with my HD+ and I just wanted to know if I was the only one with this problem.

I have not noticed this, although my RF antenna is located away from the unit. I did have some RF bleed issues with my SA8300HD. I recently got rid of it and it made a huge difference in the response of my MX3000 (with the MRF300). SJ

All of the above sounds great and I have my DI card on order
BUT
When will the audio be straightened out and when will HDMI issues be resolved?

Gary: what firmware version came with the card?
The software that Gary has is essentially what will be version 1.07 when we release it externally (We plan on doing this early next week).
Did it improve or correct any of the HDMI audio issues.
Our main foucs on this release was correcting bugs (Audio-related bugs being #1) and supporting the Precison Deinterlacing Card (ABT102)
Finally, can you try running 480i via component or HDMI into the new card and see how it compares with the SDI modded players you tested?
Just wondering if the new card puts the DVD playback near SDI quality without using SDI.
If a better connection, SDI for example, improves the picture quality and the ABT102 dramatically improves the picture quality, then I think it is safe to say that an SDI connection and the ABT102 will still give you a better image than a component video connection and the ABT102. HDMI (with YCbCr ccolorspace) vs. SDI should be very close.

I am looking for a good present for my husband for his birthday. He
has been talking about getting a DVDO scaller for some time but I am
unsure if it is worth it. He currently has the 52" JVC DILA...would
he notice a difference using the VP30 with the Deinterlacing card or
should I just get him a new TV?

Thanks ahead of time!
Erin

Erin: It might help to list the sources of your video (make and model don't hurt either). The model of the TV wouldn't hurt either. Other wise it's a bit hard to guess if this would help your viewing. If he's been thinking about it, it likely. :-)

Cable TV, over the air tuner, DirecTv, Dish, etc.
DVD player?
VHS Video?

He uses cable with all the HDTV channels, a DV-45A DVD player (which he also wants to replace :P ), Marantz 8400 receiver, and the big onix rocket speakers.

Thanks!

Just wondering if the new card puts the DVD playback near SDI quality without using SDI.

ABT102 is for different problems than SDI, especially for video playback, so the two aren't really comparable. The problems that ABT102 tries to solve are pretty visible whether you use SDI, component, or HDMI.

--Andre

Josh and Andrew: 480i is what is improved with the new card and 480i is what DVD's are. Now, SDI is certainly "better" than component but, my question was more related to the HDMI DVD players that can output 480i and not 480p.

Andrew: are you suggesting that 480i cannot be video based and must be film based? If not, then the 102 will significantly effect DVDs shot on video like sports or even concerts, so it isnt for different problems it is for these specific problems. So a video based concert DVD viewed through SDI with the 102 will look better than without it.

Now if only those dang 480i HDMI DVD players would come out already!

Josh and Andrew: 480i is what is improved with the new card and 480i is what DVD's are. Now, SDI is certainly "better" than component but, my question was more related to the HDMI DVD players that can output 480i and not 480p.

I think the bottom line is that the quality of SDI and 480i HDMI DVD players is already very, very close. The 102 will help them both equally and they will still be, well... very, very close.

The preference for SDI on this board is based largely on the relative newness of 480i HDMI and the fact that, as you recognize, there are very few decent 480i HDMI players. With SDI you can have your choice of transports and MPEG decoders and can eek some small PQ and ergonomic gains out of your system.

- Collin

I used an SDI DVD player for 3 years. I switched to an HDMI DVD player outputting 480i for convenience. One cable for audio and video plus my Sony 975 also remembers the disc location. My old RP82 would only remember 5 discs plus it was much slower

I think the bottom line is that the quality of SDI and 480i HDMI DVD players is already very, very close. The 102 will help them both equally and they will still be, well... very, very close.

The preference for SDI on this board is based largely on the relative newness of 480i HDMI and the fact that, as you recognize, there are very few decent 480i HDMI players. With SDI you can have your choice of transports and MPEG decoders and can eek some small PQ and ergonomic gains out of your system.

- Collin

Its also that when you have dvi/hdml out you can't be sure whats still 'in between' so unlike sdi we can't make a clean statement it depends on the machine in question. It can be the same as sdi for 480i/576i but it doesn't have to be. So testing per machine is needed but as shown in this thread its not lilke all sdi players are the same either.

Daniel.

Can anyone help me?

Andrew: are you suggesting that 480i cannot be video based and must be film based? If not, then the 102 will significantly effect DVDs shot on video like sports or even concerts, so it isnt for different problems it is for these specific problems. So a video based concert DVD viewed through SDI with the 102 will look better than without it.

That's not what I meant to say. 102 will significantly affect interlaced video-based material, but it doesn't matter where this material comes from, DVDs, broadcast, etc. SDI is a better way of transmitting those interlaced programs with less corruption of the signal, but those programs will still be interlaced. 102 is a better way of deinterlacing those programs. Those are very different functions, so the two aren't really comparable: the answer to your original question is that 102 used on an interlaced component input will not make it look like it came from SDI, and SDI will not make interlaced content look like it came from 102.

--Andre

Erin: I'd love to help, but my I only ordered my VP30 last week (along with 102 from Jason at AVS Science), so I have no 1st hand knowledge about a video scaler. It should arrive Monday according to FedEx.
Here is what I expect to use it for:
-upscale EVERYTHING to a set resolution, one feed to my TV, the other to my projector
-it will be my video switch
-improve my low resolution signals (non-HDTV) to the extent that it can be improved: DVD, VHS (kids), 480i broadcast.
-be able to fix lip sync.

My wife will be happy if it functions well as a video switch, currently the TV has to switched to the correct input when the source is changed.

I'll try it for my audio, but I may switch to using my receiver if the audio issues are not currently fixed.

I am looking for a good present for my husband for his birthday. He
has been talking about getting a DVDO scaller for some time but I am
unsure if it is worth it. He currently has the 52" JVC DILA...would
he notice a difference using the VP30 with the Deinterlacing card or
should I just get him a new TV?

Thanks ahead of time!
Erin

This is a tough question. There are a lot of variables to consider here. I personally would make sure that the display device is as good a device as your budget will allow first. Then feeding a top quality display device via the VP30 with what is sure to be a great upgrade in the deinterlacing card should prove to be a great combination. In any event, I don't see how having the VP30 in the chain of equipment could be anything but good. I've been very pleased with the VP30 so far(audio problems aside....soon to be corrected we hope). I run both a Pioneer 79avi and an SDI modded Oppo971 feeding an Optoma H78DC3 and the picture quality is stunning. I anxiously await Jim Doolittle's arrival soon after I get the new ABT102 card installed so that I can have the projector properly calibrated. Anyhow, the answer to your question is that without evaluating your husband's equipment in person there are just too many subjective factors to consider. Sorry for the long non-answer. This is undoubtedly why you haven't been getting responses to your question.

I used an SDI DVD player for 3 years. I switched to an HDMI DVD player outputting 480i for convenience. One cable for audio and video plus my Sony 975 also remembers the disc location. My old RP82 would only remember 5 discs plus it was much slower
I am using a Sony 975 as well to feed 480i over HDMI. I also like the feature of remembering up to 40 discs and really like the replay and skip ahead buttons on the remote. Minor features that would be hard to give up once you get used to them. I have always thought the 975 was slow compared to other DVD players I owned. The RP82 must have been really slow.

This is a tough question. There are a lot of variables to consider here. I personally would make sure that the display device is as good a device as your budget will allow first. Then feeding a top quality display device via the VP30 with what is sure to be a great upgrade in the deinterlacing card should prove to be a great combination. In any event, I don't see how having the VP30 in the chain of equipment could be anything but good. I've been very pleased with the VP30 so far(audio problems aside....soon to be corrected we hope). I run both a Pioneer 79avi and an SDI modded Oppo971 feeding an Optoma H78DC3 and the picture quality is stunning. I anxiously await Jim Doolittle's arrival soon after I get the new ABT102 card installed so that I can have the projector properly calibrated. Anyhow, the answer to your question is that without evaluating your husband's equipment in person there are just too many subjective factors to consider. Sorry for the long non-answer. This is undoubtedly why you haven't been getting responses to your question.

He has the HD52G787 JVC TV I think.

I guess it's too late now anyway, but I didn't notice the stickified thread about the AVS special VP30 deinterlacer upgrade offer until yesterday. I sent Jason Turk a PM, but no reply yet. So if I had been on time, how should I have gone about this? Is there some subforum I should have visited or a link to click?
Was the offer applicable to European AVS members at all, btw?

I guess it's too late now anyway, but I didn't notice the stickified thread about the AVS special VP30 deinterlacer upgrade offer until yesterday. I sent Jason Turk a PM, but no reply yet. So if I had been on time, how should I have gone about this? Is there some subforum I should have visited or a link to click?
Was the offer applicable to European AVS members at all, btw?

No check their website for local offers. In the case of my country they offered a deal close to the one offered in the states.

Daniel.

I guess it's too late now anyway, but I didn't notice the stickified thread about the AVS special VP30 deinterlacer upgrade offer until yesterday. I sent Jason Turk a PM, but no reply yet. So if I had been on time, how should I have gone about this? Is there some subforum I should have visited or a link to click?
Was the offer applicable to European AVS members at all, btw?


Only for regestered owners, till May 15th, here is a link: http://www.dvdo.com/ord.php#abt-102

US owners only, I believe.

Wait..... May 15th.? So it's not too late? Pheeww.....
I was almost fuming here. I guess it's only the AVS special offer that ended April 15th. then?

[edited 2]
-You know what? You know what!!??. I was just now going to empty my Outlook Express 'Deleted Items', but I always have a look through first just in case, and what do I see?? The e-mail from DVDO about this offer, labeled as spam!!! :mad:
That's just great...
Sorry - had to vent. [/edited 2]

Anyone try the new Toshiba HD DVD player with the VP30? If so how did it perform with the audio and video over HDMi?

Received the VP30 and Denon 2910 bundle on April 7. I finally overcame my A/V problems.

My short run AUDIO solution was to bypass the VP30 and take the audio signals from three sources (DVD player, Dish receiver and VCR) direct to a Yamaha AV receiver. To deal with the lip sync issue, I used a feature that the Yamaha receiver provides.

My short run VIDEO solution was to connect the VP30 to the Denon and Dish via HDMI cable and the VCR via composite video cable. Set the audio input in the VP30 to “off” for all sources. The VP30’s video signal was sent directly to a Sony Bravia LCD via a HDMI cable.

After reading this thread and the thread on Yamaha’s RX-V2600 on the AVS Forum, I no longer believe that a firmware update for any one machine is going to solve the problems caused by HDCP. I hope the folks at DVDO prove me wrong. I would have liked to have been able to move my audio/video signals via HDMI cable from my Dish ViP211 and Denon 2910 to the DVDO iScanVP30 thence HDMI cable to the Yamaha RX-V2600 (video conversion turned off) thence HDMI cable to my display (a Sony Bravia LCD), but HDCP said no! For the past three days keeping the audio and video signals apart once they leave their sources has solved my AV problems. It’s now time to start making adjustments to the VP30 to see what it can do at other that at its default settings, Should add that the default settings on the VP30 made a dramatic improvement.

just to add to today's bug report, is anyone using the RGBHV with V1.05? - tried to get computer to talk to the VP30 last night, and could get nothing at any resolution; previously, I could go into my ATI's troubleshoot mode, and "force 720p" - that had always worked. Hadn't tried since I installed V1.05; now can't get a picture output, with 720p, or resolutions all the way down to VGA. REALLY hope they can resolve this by next firmware. Extra inputs aren't much help if they don't work.

just to add to today's bug report, is anyone using the RGBHV with V1.05? - tried to get computer to talk to the VP30 last night, and could get nothing at any resolution; previously, I could go into my ATI's troubleshoot mode, and "force 720p" - that had always worked.

I've done it from my laptop at 1280x1024, and it down sized to 1080i without a problem. I am running 1.05.

eric

Anyone try the new Toshiba HD DVD player with the VP30? If so how did it perform with the audio and video over HDMi?
I've hooked up a HD-A1 to the VP30, just video and it works ok...no fault of the VP30, but the HD-A1 mutes the HDMI output depending on what you're doing with the disc, so the VP30 has to re-acquire signal lock...plus the HD-A1 takes quite a long time to boot up, and before it sends a HDMI signal, so the VP30 will "timeout" since there's no signal present at the specified input.

There is an audio issue with the HD-A1 and it just occurred to me to try the VP30 and see if it makes a difference since the VP30 can strip the audio from the HDMI stream.

just to add to today's bug report, is anyone using the RGBHV with V1.05?

I had no problem RGBHV out on 1.05, although to a plasma monitor.

I've hooked up a HD-A1 to the VP30, just video and it works ok..

Does HD-A1 give u 480i on HDMI (for DVDs) ? in YCbCr or RGB ?

The HD-A1 is 480p, 720p and 1080i only over HDMI. It is YCbCr444 with the HDMI clipping bug.

I have a Sony 975 for 480i HDMi output of SD DVD . I only plan on using the HD A1 for HD DVD discs. Hopefully I'll have one by Tuesday at the latest.

I've done it from my laptop at 1280x1024, and it down sized to 1080i without a problem. I am running 1.05.

eric

thanks, I'll have to try again. Or try something else - had problems earlier, but turned out I was sending too high a res - this time I can't get anything to respond - only get the green light on the front of VP, and all of the important options are grayed out on the menu.

thanks c722 - I have the rgb out working fine also - my problems are getting an rgb input into the thing. :(

The HD-A1 is 480p, 720p and 1080i only over HDMI. It is YCbCr444 with the HDMI clipping bug.
What is the HDMI clipping bug? I haven't heard of it. I also got an HD-A1 over the weekend but currently don't have it running through the VP30 since I wanted to test without it first. Right now it is connected directly to the other HDMI input on my Yamaha receiver which ouputs to my PJ.

What is the HDMI clipping bug?From Stacey Spears at the Toshiba thread:

"It is a well known issue. If you send 422 to the HDMI 9030 (transmitter) and have it either convert to RGB or to 444 YCbCr, then it will clip all values below 16 and above 235. This has been fixed and will be in the next gen HDMI parts.

Some companies have worked around the problem by sending 422 out or converting to RGB prior to the HDMI transmitter.

What this results in is a lost of bits. The normal 8-bit video is pretty much reduced to 7.7 bits. You can see it has a loss of highlights in light sources on screen. I have seen a few examples of this in Serenity already."

Mr. Spears,
Our resident AV entomologist.

From Stacey Spears at the Toshiba thread:

"It is a well known issue. If you send 422 to the HDMI 9030 (transmitter) and have it either convert to RGB or to 444 YCbCr, then it will clip all values below 16 and above 235. This has been fixed and will be in the next gen HDMI parts.

Some companies have worked around the problem by sending 422 out or converting to RGB prior to the HDMI transmitter.

What this results in is a lost of bits. The normal 8-bit video is pretty much reduced to 7.7 bits. You can see it has a loss of highlights in light sources on screen. I have seen a few examples of this in Serenity already."
Does the VP30 have the same HDMI clipping bug?

Paul,

No, the VP30 has its own internal color space conversion to avoid the clipping problem. It only occurs when you let the HDMI part do the color conversion.

Can anyone help me?
Sorry, But you need to post the model of the JVC so members can determine it's age and featureset and capabilities as there is a huge difference between just a year ago with the JVC and the current models.

The older generation set had serious deficiencies in crushing of blacks and poor shadow details and I'm certain anyone is reluctant to make a recommendation since there are significant differences from current Pro 1080 models and the first generation 720P model from a year ago - it's a night and day comparison. If you post the model number then members can determine the basic spec's and whether a VP could justify the expense on your part. Model number will provide a blueprint to match with abilities of VP30 I would suggest.

I believe the VP30 has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee should it not work out.:)

I just tried the Last Samsurai HD DVD running through my VP30. When I set HDMI to auto in the setup menu I get DD at my receiver. If I set HDMI to bitstream then I get DTS at the receiver. So I guess the VP30 v1.00 software will work with this. The sound levels are fine with DD. It is lower with DTS. I hope the audio woks correctly with v1.07 since v 1.00 is the only one I've been able to work properly with all my components.

I just tried the Last Samsurai HD DVD running through my VP30. When I set HDMI to auto in the setup menu I get DD at my receiver. If I set HDMI to bitstream then I get DTS at the receiver. So I guess the VP30 v1.00 software will work with this. The sound levels are fine with DD. It is lower with DTS. I hope the audio woks correctly with v1.07 since v 1.00 is the only one I've been able to work properly with all my components.
Thanks for checking that out, I got too busy today to even try it. It does bring up the question of what the VP30 is doing to the signal that the receiver can see it as DD and/or DTS depending on the player setting.

Aaron, are you then sending HDMI out of the VP30 to your receiver or coax?

I jsut tried POTO and I get the 5.1 DD from the DD+ stream by going through the VP30 just like TLS disc. It looks and sounds excellent. I've never seen HD this good before. It's what I've been waiting for since 2001.

Aaron, are you then sending HDMI out of the VP30 to your receiver or coax?

I was wondering about that, too. His profile says he has a Denon 3805, which doesn't have an HDMI input, so he's seeing a very strange result. Is it possible that the DD+ soundtrack is just plain DD?

--Andre

You are supposed to be able to get the DD out of the DD+ stream. Apparently with the VP30 connected it allows me to do that. From the coaxial/optical out it will be reencoded to DTS. Or if I set the HDMI out to bitstream instead of auto I will get the encoded DTS from the player also. I am using v1.00. I doubt I would have the same results with v1.03 or later if the reuslts with my Sony 975 are any indication since I couldn't get multichannel audio ove rthe HDMI with those firmware versions.

Aaron, are you then sending HDMI out of the VP30 to your receiver or coax?
I am using the optical out from the VP30 to my Denon 3805.

flyingvee: :o sorry I mis read ur post... I will try a RGB in later today to see.

sspears: HDMI clipping: do u know if the pio 59 at 480i HDMI output has the clipping bug ? With VP30 I get YCbCr444 with the player HDMI output set at "Standard". At this setting the below black is lost. Changing the player to "Enhanced" VP30 gets a RGB444, for which below black is present. It seems to indicate for YCbCr output it also has the clipping but not for RGB output.... :confused:

You are supposed to be able to get the DD out of the DD+ stream.

is the current HDMI connection in the A1 already capable to pass DD+ stream ? (I thought it needs to be 1.3 or something ?)

So if I understand aaronwt correctly it must be possible to select between PCM and DD on the A1's HDMI output stream. I was under the impression PCM was the only choice for HDMI but I guess it makes sense it can do plain ole DD also.

Aaron,

According to Roger Dressler from Dolby, if the HD-DVD is marked a certain way (which all of the 3 currently released are), then you can't get DD from DD+, which is why the Toshiba does the DTS re-encoding. However, this wouldn't be the first time video mastering studios have messed up the flags on a DVD. They may have put plain DD on the disc, but then marked it incorrectly. Anyway, this sounds like it could be a great workaround for not re-encoding it as DTS. I wonder what the DVDO would do with a bitstream that's not DD-compatible.

--Andre

I just tried the Last Samsurai HD DVD running through my VP30. When I set HDMI to auto in the setup menu I get DD at my receiver. If I set HDMI to bitstream then I get DTS at the receiver. So I guess the VP30 v1.00 software will work with this. The sound levels are fine with DD. It is lower with DTS. I hope the audio woks correctly with v1.07 since v 1.00 is the only one I've been able to work properly with all my components.
I just tried this and all I get is that "motorboating" sound and I think I'm using the exact same hardware as you. VP30 is also on v.1.00. Tried all the different HDMI audio output modes. Weird...first time I have used the VP30 for audio so maybe I'm not doing something right.

I just tried this and all I get is that "motorboating" sound and I think I'm using the exact same hardware as you. VP30 is also on v.1.00. Tried all the different HDMI audio output modes. Weird...first time I have used the VP30 for audio so maybe I'm not doing something right.


Alot of people had that problem. For some reason v1.00 is very stable for me.

I think I will stick with the 6 channel analog straight to my TX1000 receiver for the DD+ from the HD DVD. No offense to the VP30 of course...

Aaron,

According to Roger Dressler from Dolby, if the HD-DVD is marked a certain way (which all of the 3 currently released are), then you can't get DD from DD+, which is why the Toshiba does the DTS re-encoding. However, this wouldn't be the first time video mastering studios have messed up the flags on a DVD. They may have put plain DD on the disc, but then marked it incorrectly. Anyway, this sounds like it could be a great workaround for not re-encoding it as DTS. I wonder what the DVDO would do with a bitstream that's not DD-compatible.

--Andre

On POTO it has a Dolby TrueHD track. When I switch to that I get no audio. When I switch back to DD+ I get 5.1 DD(48khz) again out of the VP30. I'm not sure if my Denon 3805 shows the bitrate of the data stream. It shows which channels and whether it is DTS, DD,or PCM and the sampling frequency.

aaronwt - Do you have to select the HDMI bitstream in the A1? Unless the VP-30 is ENcoding the PCM to DD, which I highly doubt there must be a way to select which bistream the A1 outputs on the HDMI correct? Just trying to get my arms around this.

I think there were 4 choices for HDMI out. Auto, bitstream, PCM and Downmixed PCM. I only tried auto and bitstream with an HD DVD. Auto gave me a DD signal from the DD+ stream while bitstream gave me the encoded DTS stream that is produced from the internal decoding of the DD+.

Thanks for the reply. I guess the question then becomes is the DD stream the best? In theory the others are all higher bitrates. The real solution I guess is a Pre/Pro or receiver with HDMI1.1 inputs so you can get the Hi-res PCM digitally. Thanks again for the info.

Alot of people had that problem. For some reason v1.00 is very stable for me.
Is this the v1.00 that Josh sent out in some emails before it was officially posted at the DVDO site, or is it the original fw that the VP30 was shipped with?

I have only updated my VP30 with that first early version of v1.00 and haven't used anything else yet.

I believe it is the one Josh sent out plus the update that corrected the 1080i bug. The update doesn't include everything sinc ethe filesize is smaller and also all the settings are retained. I just know that this is the only version that has worked with all my components. The other versions caused problems with either my Sony 975 DVD player or my HDTiVos.

Hai,

a totally unrelated question that has been bugging me for a while. I was reading Kris review on that he could not 'shutdown' the display on the vp30 even in normal mode. Is mine broken ? I mean i never see _anything_ when in normal mode its 100% off unless i enter a menu always been that way. So should the display say anything in normal mode and ifso what ?

Daniel.

Daniel - don't worry - that is how mine behaves - display only "wakes up" when I enter something on the remote. Otherwise it is blank - dark. Assumed that was default - is how mine came from the box, and I've never changed anything.

Guys I get no audio whatsoever from the HDMI output of the Toshiba HD-A1 ?? the VP30 doesn't pickup any audio from the HDMI input no matter what I set the HDMI output to on the HD-A1 :mad:

currently I have the HD-A1 connected via analog to my Sherwood P-965 and it sounds superb

the VP30 does work with the coaxial output of the HD-A1 and I get the obvious DTS reencoding

important to note that I am using a alpha unreleased software right now

-Gary

My VP30, which came loaded with 1.05, also blanks the display unless you're doing something to the unit, like accessing the menus.

obie_fl,

If the VP30 trick works for you, I'd listen to the DD stream: it avoids re-encoding with another lossy encoder like DTS, which can compound artifacts. I would think that or the 6-channel analog outputs set to the highest quality soundtrack would be best. I'd avoid the DTS encoding like the plague.

--Andre

U r more or less correct, that 1080i -> 720p involves discarding some pic info.

Althought 1080i doesn't have to ->540p 1st. It can directly scale a 1080i to 720p, effectively "bob" in one step.
:

This is no good but believe is due to certain limitations in the processor. The Gennum and the Realta, if I remember correctly, deinterlace 1080i to 1080p and then down-scale 1080p to 720p. The end result is a far sharper image. To be able to do this, however, requires more powerful chips at a higher price point.

Hai,

a totally unrelated question that has been bugging me for a while. I was reading Kris review on that he could not 'shutdown' the display on the vp30 even in normal mode. Is mine broken ? I mean i never see _anything_ when in normal mode its 100% off unless i enter a menu always been that way. So should the display say anything in normal mode and ifso what ?

Daniel.
My assumption was that he was talking about the power LED which was changed in a firmware update so that you could select OFF. I've always had the main LCD display off when not using menus.

Guys I get no audio whatsoever from the HDMI output of the Toshiba HD-A1 ?? the VP30 doesn't pickup any audio from the HDMI input no matter what I set the HDMI output to on the HD-A1 :mad:


I'm not having any luck either, what's frustrating is that I have the exact same components as aaronwt, with the same exact firmware.

Keenan I have no interest in telling other folks what to do, but for me I forgot everything and hooked up the A1 via the analog ouputs, the DD+ tracks are totally killer via the analog inputs on my Sherwood, the Serenity disc is about the best sounding movie I have heard in my HT setup

that was the exact reason all pre-amps and receivers have had those 8 channel inputs for all these years, they have finally come to use for a new movie audio format, and I am glad I have them :)

-Gary

Yeah, that's what I'm going to do when I get a bit of time I can devote to a thorough setup. I've used the analog inputs in the past for SACD and they work great.

I haven't had the need to use the VP30 for audio so far, I thought I would try it with the HD-A1, but I'm not crushed that it didn't work, or hasn't so far.

My assumption was that he was talking about the power LED which was changed in a firmware update so that you could select OFF. I've always had the main LCD display off when not using menus.

I figured that but that and the screenshots of 1080p (they all use the same damn photo) of a 1single line display made me wonder. The fact that the HD+ could turn the led of and the vp30 was a source for irritation for many including me but that is fixed now.

Daniel.

Okay, I'm trying to figure out how the VP30 and the Toshiba HD-A1 play together before I plunk down the cash for the HD-A1. Here's what I've found, please correct me if I'm wrong or missing something. Note that I'm using a 720P projector and my receiver (B&K Ref 50) does not have HDMI audio inputs.

The HD-A1/VP30 combo works best with 720p displays if the HD-A1 is set to 1080 and the VP30 does the conversion to 720p rather than setting the HD-A1 to 720p and letting the VP30 pass the signal through.

The VP30 may or may not handle the HD-A1's HDMI audio. Apparently, aaronwt is using HDMI from the HD-A1 to the VP30 and then using a toslink connection to a denon receiver. He is getting DD 5.1 surround sound from the DD+ track. He is using VP30 1.0 firmware.

Others, like Gary, are getting no sound from HD-A1 HDMI-VP30-coax/toslink out chain. Presumably, those in that situation are not using 1.0 firmware and thus must either use the analog 5.1 output of the HD-A1 (which renders rear speakers in a 7.1 system useless, right?) or use the HD-A1's coax or toslink out, and get a DTS 5.1 signal based on the way the HD-A1 re-encodes the sound for s/pdif out.

Is that about right for this combo?

He is getting DD 5.1 surround sound from the DD+ track. He is using VP30 1.0 firmware.


That's not a guarantee, I'm on v1.00 and it's not working for me.

Gary,

put a regular DVD in and then try seeing if you're getting any audio out of HDMI.

joelatus,

With regards to the 7.1 issue for the NEW Dolby Digital and DTS formats, the current generation HDMI interfaces cannot support these audio formats. In order to take advantage of these new audio formats the HDMI interface will have to HDMI version 1.3, which is not fully through the specification process. Which means that there will not be equipment available to support these new audio formats for some time.

At least that is my impression of the status of the audio portion of this new audio format mess. Also, I do not believe the current HD-DVD's are encoded in the NEW 7.1 audio formats.

From what I can understand, what this means is that in about 1 to 1.5 years we will all get to purchase new sound processors, video processors, etc. if we wish to take advantage of the new audio formats, unless we use analog connections from the source to the sound processor. Many of the current sound processors have 7.1 audio analog inputs. NOTE, the Toshiba HD-DVD layers do not have 7.1 audio outputs, they support 5.1.

Just my thoughts.

If your AV receiver can take the 5.1 and matrix it then your back surrounds will not be useless. The newer ones can usually do NEO6 or PLllx or EX...

Ofer I will try that today

-Gary

I figured out one thing long ago and this is why I am not getting any audio from the Toshiba HD-A1

the VP30 does not recognize PCM audio thru any of its audio inputs
try connecting a CD player to the audio inputs, optical or coaxial, you won't get any sound output

the VP30 does not pass thru PCM audio and I have confirmed this time and time again, in my setup atleast

currently the way to go with the HD-A1 is the 5.1 analog outputs, which sound amazing on my Sherwood P-965

I will give that a test Ofer, a regular DVD that is

-Gary

joelatus,

With regards to the 7.1 issue for the NEW Dolby Digital and DTS formats, the current generation HDMI interfaces cannot support these audio formats. In order to take advantage of these new audio formats the HDMI interface will have to HDMI version 1.3, which is not fully through the specification process. Which means that there will not be equipment available to support these new audio formats for some time.

The above is only true if you want to decode the new streams in your Pre/Pro or receiver. The current HDMI 1.1 spec can take in multichannel hi-resolution PCM, which could then be processed to get the rear channels. AFAIK all the announced HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players have built in decoders so there is no need to have the decoders in you Pre/Pro or receiver. In fact you can make a strong argument that the decoders may stay in the players as they have interactivity functions (button beeps etc) that you would lose if you decode outside the player.

If your AV receiver can take the 5.1 and matrix it then your back surrounds will not be useless. The newer ones can usually do NEO6 or PLllx or EX...

I thought most receivers can't process the analog 5.1 inputs. They are straight pass through. I'm pretty sure it's that way with my ref50.

the VP30 does not recognize PCM audio thru any of its audio inputs
try connecting a CD player to the audio inputs, optical or coaxial, you won't get any sound output

-Gary

LORD, is the VP bizarre - with all my bitches, my VP does recognize and pass thru PCM - thank heaven. Mgr sent me a practice cd, my Denon cd player won't read it, thought I was screwed, put it in 1600, and it plays fine thru VP, thru HT/sound system. I may reburn - 1600 isn't optimized for cd playback, but Denon says it is puttin out pcm, and I do hear music. V1.05

That's not a guarantee, I'm on v1.00 and it's not working for me.

So you get no sound when using just HDMI from the HD-A1? This is just bizarre. why would the VP30 with v1.00 pass DD 5.1 from the HD-A1's HDMI for one person and not another? I think I'm going to put the brakes on an HD-A1 purchase.

So you get no sound when using just HDMI from the HD-A1? This is just bizarre. why would the VP30 with v1.00 pass DD 5.1 from the HD-A1's HDMI for one person and not another? I think I'm going to put the brakes on an HD-A1 purchase.
HDMI out from the HD-A1 to the VP30, no, I don't get any sound. I do get sound when I bypass the VP30 and go S/PDIF or analog though. I don't have a HDMI capable receiver, yet... ;)

I figured out one thing long ago and this is why I am not getting any audio from the Toshiba HD-A1

the VP30 does not recognize PCM audio thru any of its audio inputs
try connecting a CD player to the audio inputs, optical or coaxial, you won't get any sound output

the VP30 does not pass thru PCM audio and I have confirmed this time and time again, in my setup atleast


Gary,

Two words that you may be very familiar with, actually: Rush R30! The PCM track there works flawlessly through my VP30, as do regular CDs and 96k/24bit DVDs (not DVD-A, but the early Chesky stuff.)

Sorry to hear it isn't working for you...is your VP30 well?

-John

This audio bug with the VP is really bad. I am having intermittent drop out when using my OPPO 971 with SDI mod and the Hughes 10-250 DVR. I also get random no audio when switching from OPPO to the satellite rcvr. I usually can get the audio back by powering off then on. Sometimes I also lose audio when I switch from one of the high def channels outputting DD to a non-high def channel on the Hughes rcvr. I know there will be a v1.07 firmware update releasing on or about the time of the release of the new ABT102 card, so I along with everyone else can't wait for both.

With that in mind, is there any word on the ship date of the new card. I ordered the card through AVS forum, so I hope that we don't take a back seat to those who ordered direct from DVDO. I really have been frustrated by my first time experience with DVDO. First there was delay after delay in the release of the VP30 then the units go out with major audio problems and other minor issues such as the remote sensitivity issue. Don't get me wrong, in spite of the these experiences, I continue to believe that the VP30 represents a great value in processors, but when one pays more for a piece of equipment than most will ever spend on a TV a certain level of expediency in the solution is expected.

I'm surprised nobody has posted the Secrets VP30 results (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=127#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor/Hub%20(Component))!

Conclusions

The VP30 is a spectacular video processing solution that continues DVDO’s commitment to performance and value. I can’t wait to see what their new de-interlacer will do when it’s ready for prime time. Until then, the VP30 is a processor I can recommend highly without the slightest hesitation.

I'm surprised nobody has posted the Secrets VP30 results (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=127#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor/Hub%20(Component))!

was in a different thread, some extra info from sspears related to this :

------
Don and I are hard at work on an HD test disc that we plan to release later this year. The initial disc will most likely be on the HD DVD format. Depending on sales we may offer a BD version next year. It will include all of the basic audio and video tests like AVIA and DVE.

The disc will offer the most advanced deinterlacing AND scaling tests. You will get a small preview of what is to come with the ABT102. It includes a demo disc we created for Anchor Bay Technologies.

The ABT102 beats the SiI504 in every way.
-----

Daniel.

With that in mind, is there any word on the ship date of the new card. I ordered the card through AVS forum, so I hope that we don't take a back seat to those who ordered direct from DVDO.
Got an email from DVDO yesterday, they said towards the end of the month.

Got an email from DVDO yesterday, they said towards the end of the month.


YES! :cool:

I'm new to the Video Processor forum and without reading this whole thread (114+ pages), can someone please comment whether there are any known issues in running 1366x768 resolution on DVDO VP30 and the new Panasonic Plasma TH-50PX60U over HDMI.

Thanks...RN

I'm new to the Video Processor forum and without reading this whole thread (114+ pages), can someone please comment whether there are any known issues in running 1366x768 resolution on DVDO VP30 and the new Panasonic Plasma TH-50PX60U over HDMI.

Thanks...RN

I have that setup: VP30 via HDMI to DVI blade on the Panasonic TH-50x60U, running native resolution---looks incredible! The Panasonic HDMI blade does apparently have issues doing native resolution according to what others have stated in this thread.

I have that setup: VP30 via HDMI to DVI blade on the Panasonic TH-50x60U, running native resolution---looks incredible! The Panasonic HDMI blade does apparently have issues doing native resolution according to what others have stated in this thread.

So there is no way to directly use the HDMI input in Panasonic from VP30 HDMI out? What do you mean by DVI blade? Is this the same problem with the 42px60u?

Thanks,

Edwin

"Blade" is a generic industry term that roughly means "Plug in module"

A DVI blade would be a plug in module for the TV unit that has a DVI interface.

A DVI interface is sort of a subset of HDMI.

I have a different projector and it has a DVI input. I use a cable that is HDMI on one end and DVI on the other. The connectors are different but the signals that exist on both (Video for the most part and some control) are identical.

I have been reading this thread for months and I finally purchased a VP30. I have noticed comments about audio issues, so I have been trying different versions of software to see which one works best in my system. I am using a USB-to-serial adapter and the TeraTerm program off of DVDO's website and my VP30 is now stuck in a 'Load an .abt file' state and I can't get it to accept any .abt file. TeraTerm stops at about 840,000 bytes before it says that I am loading a corrupt file. Has anyone else had this problem???

So there is no way to directly use the HDMI input in Panasonic from VP30 HDMI out? What do you mean by DVI blade? Is this the same problem with the 42px60u?

Thanks,

Edwin

Edwin,

There are two blade modules you can buy for Panasonic plasmas. The DVI module is the one that definitely works with the VP30. Here is the model number of the Panasonic DVI blade and the VP30 settings you should try to achieve native resolution:

TY-42TM6D DVI card (w/HDCP):

H Shift 292
H Size 1366
H Front 22
H Sync 112
H Back 292
H Total 1792

V Shift 3
V Size 768
V Front 3
V Sync 18
V Back 17
V Total 806

I have been reading this thread for months and I finally purchased a VP30. I have noticed comments about audio issues, so I have been trying different versions of software to see which one works best in my system. I am using a USB-to-serial adapter and the TeraTerm program off of DVDO's website and my VP30 is now stuck in a 'Load an .abt file' state and I can't get it to accept any .abt file. TeraTerm stops at about 840,000 bytes before it says that I am loading a corrupt file. Has anyone else had this problem???
Yes, exactly the same problem---it was the USB to serial adapter. I replaced it with the DVDO recommended model and it worked perfectly. In the meantime (while waiting to receive my FTDI US232B USB to Serial Adapter), I used a serial cable connected to my desk top to restore/update the VP30 firmware.

Guys I get no audio whatsoever from the HDMI output of the Toshiba HD-A1 ?? the VP30 doesn't pickup any audio from the HDMI input no matter what I set the HDMI output to on the HD-A1 :mad:

currently I have the HD-A1 connected via analog to my Sherwood P-965 and it sounds superb

the VP30 does work with the coaxial output of the HD-A1 and I get the obvious DTS reencoding

important to note that I am using a alpha unreleased software right now

-Gary
I sure hope Dale looks at this audio situation and comes up with a firmware update so we can input audio thru hdmi from the new Toshiba HD-DVD players and output to our recievers thru the coax or toslink outputs.
This would really sell alot of VP30's !

I hope so too. I am still at v1.00 and that is where I might have to stay if the ABT102 version won't let me get the DD from the DD+ soundtrack on the HD DVDs. I might seriously have to forgo the ABT102 if it won't give me the same functionality. At least this way I can choose between DD and having the A1 encode it in DTS. Either way I'm sure DVDO will get things straightened out eventually. I guess if the ABT102 does a fabulous job like I hear I will have to forgo DD and just connect the A1 straight to my receiver and get the DTS instead.

Ofer and guys

the Toshiba HD-A1 unit passes standard DTS/DD from SD DVD's from the HDMI port thru the VP30 and works perfect

guys hook up the Analog outputs of the Toshiba unit and enjoy that great sound, the Serenity disc at 1.5 Mbps DD+ is totally killer

-Gary

Ofer and guys

the Toshiba HD-A1 unit passes standard DTS/DD from SD DVD's from the HDMI port thru the VP30 and works perfect

guys hook up the Analog outputs of the Toshiba unit and enjoy that great sound, the Serenity disc at 1.5 Mbps DD+ is totally killer

-Gary

Gary, does the HD-A1 have some kind of native mode where it will put SD dvd's out at 480i so the VP30 can handle deinterlacing and upscaling? or do you have to do that on a per disc basis?

Just got my VP30 earlier this week, it came from AVS Forum with V1.05. The output looks just great on my cheap HD TV (and upgrade for that in the future).

I've read through all this thread (over a week or so), but I may have missed a bit...

I've hooked up my Zenith DVB318 DVD player through the Component inputs and it looks great (I'll got to DVI->HDMI later). I then tried out my VHS player into the composite inputs along with the L+R audio inputs (hey, it's for the kids I tell you). Anyway I couldn't get an audio signal to work yet. I'll try again over the weekend as I may have messed up the optical out from the VP30 to my receiver (but it works for the DVD player through the VP30 so it should work). It sure seemed to have cleaned up the video, might even get an S-Video VHS player. :)

Anyone have 1:1 mapping for a JVC G1000 DILA?

I'm only getting to test this on occasion so that I don't mess up the setup for everyone else in the house. Until I've all the video switching working perfectly, I'll be holding off the entire upgrade.

Haven't gotten to the HD-250 hooked up yet. I'm hesitant to use HDMI given the issues so far. I'll probably just go with Component for now.

Thanks for listening to the rambling of a happy upgrader.

donjulio,

I believe they are encoded with 6.1 DD+ (i.e., the new version indeed).

dave,

why not post these results on the dedicated "native resolution" thread?

Gary,

thanks for the update.

I then tried out my VHS player into the composite inputs along with the L+R audio inputs (hey, it's for the kids I tell you). Anyway I couldn't get an audio signal to work yet.

U r not alone .... I wasn't able to get L+R audio input from an old VHS either.

Joe, no, only 480p/1080i/720p fof SD DVD on the Toshiba HD-A1

-Gary

I just set up my Sony DHG-HDD250 yesterday and had it connected through a DVDO VP30 and it seems like it has a HDCP problem, cannot figure out which is causing it but when I have it connected through the VP30, the picture comes on for a few seconds, then the picture goes black(like curtains closing in front of the picture) basically saying that your device is not HDCP compliant. But when I connect directly to the monitor, there is no problems.

I am running the original firmware (v. 1.00), is there a handshake problems with these two devices? Anyone else using a HDD250 with the VP30?

Thanks

Joe, no, only 480p/1080i/720p fof SD DVD on the Toshiba HD-A1

The component outputs will give you 480i, but not the HDMI output.

It's worth noting also that the player does not have an "auto" resolution mode that will switch output based on disc content. Resolutions have to be changed manually.

Regarding the HD-A1, it's been noted in many threads (and I'll confirm here) that the player's 720p output is very poor. The player should only be used at 1080i output.

For kicks, last night I tried using the VP30 to scale the HD-A1's 1080i output to 720p at 48hz. Not a good idea. Judder all over the place. I assume this has to do with the VP30's field-scaling of 1080i to 720p, and that causing problems with cadence lock. Scaling to 720p at 60hz works fine. This may disappoint those hoping for frame rate converstion to 48hz.

Has anyone successfully converted 1080i to 48hz using different video sources?

Dave Barrett,

Where does the DVI Blade get installed on the Panasonic Plasma TH-50PX60U?

Thanks...RN

Regarding the HD-A1, it's been noted in many threads (and I'll confirm here) that the player's 720p output is very poor. The player should only be used at 1080i output.

And it's also been noted in many threads. That you are supposed to set the HD output of the HD-A1 for whatever it is that the disk is rated for that you are playing, and not for your displays native input.

For kicks, last night I tried using the VP30 to scale the HD-A1's 1080i output to 720p at 48hz. Not a good idea. Judder all over the place. I assume this has to do with the VP30's field-scaling of 1080i to 720p, and that causing problems with cadence lock.
Cadence detection on the VP30 only works for SD interlaced sources since it's performed by the SiI504.

The new HD deinterlacer will perform cadence detection on 1080i as you would expect, but also on progressive sources such as 480p, 576p and 720p. It will probably do it for 1080p, too, but that's not proven yet.

- Dale Adams

Dave Barrett,

Thanks for your suggestion. With your setup do you have any audio issues. I'm going to setup the same configuration if it's working for you. I'll do HDMI out from VP30 to DVI Blade on the Panasonic plasma TH-50PX60U. Why did you do custom resolution settings, did the the normal 1366x768 resolution on the VP30 not work for you?

Also, do you have a satellite feed into the VP30 and if so, do the SD channels look any better after the scaling? I have DirectTV and I'm hoping the SD picture will improve.

Thanks...RN

The component outputs will give you 480i, but not the HDMI output.

It's worth noting also that the player does not have an "auto" resolution mode that will switch output based on disc content. Resolutions have to be changed manually.

So if you don't want to hassle (as in convenience for family usage) with selecting resolution on a per disc basis, it would be best to keep an SD DVD player around for SD DVDs. I assume that the VP30 does a better job of upscaling SD DVDs than the HD-A1 does.

And it's also been noted in many threads. That you are supposed to set the HD output of the HD-A1 for whatever it is that the disk is rated for that you are playing, and not for your displays native input.Yea, I read that in the owner's manual too. Which makes that statement completely worthless since the only 3 HD DVD discs released so far, all have the "Main Feature" video @ 1080P and the HD-A1 can only output 1080i. :(

And it's also been noted in many threads. That you are supposed to set the HD output of the HD-A1 for whatever it is that the disk is rated for that you are playing, and not for your displays native input.

Yes, the manual does say that. But that flies in the face of conventional logic regarding scaling and 1:1 pixel mapping. Since the data on the disc is stored in 1080p format, it should be better for the player to scale directly from 1080p to 720p than to output 1080i and rely on an external device to deinterlace and scale. However, as noted, the HD-A1's 720p downconversion is very poor.

Nonetheless, the VP30's field scaling of 1080i looks pretty good, even if it's not as optimal as true inverse telecine to 1080p prior to scaling would be.

Also, do you have a satellite feed into the VP30 and if so, do the SD channels look any better after the scaling? I have DirectTV and I'm hoping the SD picture will improve.

Thanks...RN

i'm curious about this as well. i know SD satilite has some pretty serious macro blocking issues so i'm wondering how bad or good the VP30 will improve this when scaling or if it will at all. I understand from a technical point it can't clean up the source but from a viewing standpoint is it more visually appealing?

I have been having a rough time getting the XA1 to work with the VP30. I am using version 1.06. The XA1 does work with the HDMI going straight to my H79 so I know that it is the VP30. All I get is a HDMI ERROR 0 message(on the XA1)... Any thoughts...?

I have been having a rough time getting the XA1 to work with the VP30. I am using version 1.06. The XA1 does work with the HDMI going straight to my H79 so I know that it is the VP30. All I get is a HDMI ERROR 0 message(on the XA1)... Any thoughts...?

what do you have "HDCP Mode" set to on the VP30?

Dale:
I am about to purchase a new VP30 with the new ABT102 card(for delivery when available).
Question: Will I be able to input the audio from my Toshiba HD-DVD player into the VP30 via HDMI and will the VP30 process the signal.
This is really needed for lypsync since I will be using the VP30 to scale the 1080i rez to 720P for my projector.
Thanks!

Got it! I just unplugged the VP30 and all is well... I will be playing more with this tomorrow...

I just set up my Sony DHG-HDD250 yesterday and had it connected through a DVDO VP30 and it seems like it has a HDCP problem, cannot figure out which is causing it but when I have it connected through the VP30, the picture comes on for a few seconds, then the picture goes black(like curtains closing in front of the picture) basically saying that your device is not HDCP compliant. But when I connect directly to the monitor, there is no problems.

I am running the original firmware (v. 1.00), is there a handshake problems with these two devices? Anyone else using a HDD250 with the VP30?

Thanks


I called DVDO and they recommended for me to try the 1.05 firmware. But, alas, it still does not work. DVDO, please get a fix for the HDMI handshake.......

Thanks

Dale:
I am about to purchase a new VP30 with the new ABT102 card(for delivery when available).
Question: Will I be able to input the audio from my Toshiba HD-DVD player into the VP30 via HDMI and will the VP30 process the signal.
This is really needed for lypsync since I will be using the VP30 to scale the 1080i rez to 720P for my projector.
Thanks!
As soon as we can get our hands on an HD-DVD player we will be able to verify for ourselves if there are any issues with using HDMI to caryy both audio/video to the VP30. The SPDIF connection is another option.

As soon as we can get our hands on an HD-DVD player we will be able to verify for ourselves if there are any issues with using HDMI to caryy both audio/video to the VP30. The SPDIF connection is another option.
Funny this should come up now. I finally got a chance to try hooking up my HD-A1 through my VP30. The VP30 ouputs to a Yamaha HTR-5990 by HDMI, which passes the signal to a Sony HS-51 by HDMI. So the all HDMI path looks like this.

HD-A1 -> VP30 -> HTR-5990 -> HS-51

The video seems to work just fine, but it seems that the VP30 will not pass a 5.1 channel PCM audio signal to the receiver. When I connect directly from the A1 to my receiver I get 5.1 channels of PCM. When I go through the VP30 I get 2 channels of PCM. I hope this is something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. My guess would be that the A1 sees the VP30 as an HDMI 1.0 device which only supports 2 channel PCM. My firmware is still 1.0.

Without looking through the manual, what version is the HDMI on the VP30, I recall that this model was at CES2005 as a mockup, or prototype, and HDMI spec 1.1 was finalized in May 2004, so it should be 1.1....

Josh:
Perhaps some in the bay area would be willing to lend you their HD-DVD player after they have watched their movies.

Funny this should come up now. I finally got a chance to try hooking up my HD-A1 through my VP30. The VP30 ouputs to a Yamaha HTR-5990 by HDMI, which passes the signal to a Sony HS-51 by HDMI. So the all HDMI path looks like this.

HD-A1 -> VP30 -> HTR-5990 -> HS-51

The video seems to work just fine, but it seems that the VP30 will not pass a 5.1 channel PCM audio signal to the receiver. When I connect directly from the A1 to my receiver I get 5.1 channels of PCM. When I go through the VP30 I get 2 channels of PCM. I hope this is something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. My guess would be that the A1 sees the VP30 as an HDMI 1.0 device which only supports 2 channel PCM. My firmware is still 1.0.

This was my result on a later firmware. It tried passing the 96Khz pcm over two channels since I had an optical cable going to my receiver. But for some reason when I use v1.00 I get DD out of the VP30 when I have HDMI set to auto in the A1. I don't know whether somethin is different with my A1 or my VP30. As soon as my friend opens up his A1 I will try his on my system to see if I get the same results. That one was made 900 units earlier than the unit I'm using.

I have been having a rough time getting the XA1 to work with the VP30. I am using version 1.06. The XA1 does work with the HDMI going straight to my H79 so I know that it is the VP30. All I get is a HDMI ERROR 0 message(on the XA1)... Any thoughts...?

I assume that you've enabled HDMI output on the player using the V. Output button?

Yes, HDMI is displayed on the XA1. I actually have now been getting it to work. I will be experimenting today... Here's to hope!

Will routing a DirecTV HDTivo through the iScan VP30 really make any difference in picture quality?

The HDTivo sometimes sends HD, sometimes not -- and as I understand it, the iScan VP30 passes through a 1080i signal as-is. Is it smart enough to recognize the SDTV signal and improve it, or does the HDTivo upconvert it already to an 1080i, thereby causing the iScan VP30 to push it through unchanged?

And if it does make any differerence, is it also de-interlacing SDTV sent through HDTivo -- meaning that getting the extra VP30 Deinterlacer card would make the picture better?

I just set up my Sony DHG-HDD250 yesterday and had it connected through a DVDO VP30 and it seems like it has a HDCP problem, cannot figure out which is causing it but when I have it connected through the VP30, the picture comes on for a few seconds, then the picture goes black(like curtains closing in front of the picture) basically saying that your device is not HDCP compliant. But when I connect directly to the monitor, there is no problems.

I am running the original firmware (v. 1.00), is there a handshake problems with these two devices? Anyone else using a HDD250 with the VP30?

Thanks

I had a similar problem with the curtain, and would like to know if you had two intermediate devices between your source and the display for reasons explained below.

Before installing the VP30, I had two sources (STB and a DVD player) hooked up to a receiver and the receiver in turn hooked up to a display with all connections made by HDMI cable. In that setup, I had no problem with the HDCP handshake.

I hooked up the two sources to the VP30 and the VP30 in turned hooked up to a receiver and the receiver in turn hooked up to a display with all connections made with HDMI cable. With that setup, I got the curtain. My initial thought was I had a problem with the VP30, but the firm that sold me the VP30 had me take the receiver out of the loop. The curtain went away, and I had a great picture but no sound. Then remembered I had turned off my TV’s speaker account my 5.1 speaker system. When I turned on the TV’s speaker, I had both sound and a good picture.

Later I added my VCR to the loop by running the video signal to the VP30 and the audio signal to the receiver with composite cable

I don’t know whether my problem with the curtain is with the VP30, the receiver or the fact that there were two intermediate devices between the sources and the display. Just wondering if you had two intermediate devices between your source and the display.

To get my 5.1 speaker system back on line, I turned the audio input to “off” on the VP30 and ran optical cable from the STB and coax cable from the DVD player to the receiver. Now I have a good picture, a 5.1 speaker system, no curtain and too many remotes.

I think you can have a problem with too many cables/switchers between your source and display. I think the signal gets degraded which loses the HDMI handshake (and therefore you get the curtain) SJ

I doubt if the HDMI signal gets degraded, BUT I do not disagree with your comment that there may be too many HDMI repeaters (a device that both accepts an HDMI signal and transmits an HDMI signal) in the loop. It seems the manufacturers have it hard enough with HDMI when their device is just a source (e.g. a STB) or a sink (e.g. a TV). It is a credit to ABT/DVDO that they do the HDMI thing as well as they do.

By the way I am participating in a limited beta test on the latest firmware non-release (the one that supports the DI card) since I have many HDMI and component devices. I can report (Josh will probably kill me, but I would want to know if I was not a tester) that I spent last night testing Audio from two SA 8300HD DVR's. The audio was taken off the HDMI cable at the VP30 and fed from the VP30 toslink output to a Lexicon MC-1 as the audio processor.

The Audio was perfect. The delays in audio sync were gone. The audio come up before the picture stabilized as it does with the VP30 not present. There were no audio dropouts all night, yet I did have one video stutter which was due to transmission (backed up and replayed and it was still there). I will be checking Component (DVD players) this weekend and am looking forward to the same result.

Oh yes, the picture was as good as it always was.

I had a similar problem with the curtain,


In my situation, it is my only HDCP device connected to the VP30 and hence the only one having a problem. Last night, I connected the HDD250 to my other display(via a Zektor DVI switcher) and NO problems, if functioned with no problems.

Jim

I have finally got my VP30 giving some audio from the Toshiba HD-A1 as well, via the HDMI output

but only 2 channel PCM

when I set to Bitsream under HDMI, I get only the 2 front channels in PCM, the center and surrounds are missing

When I set to Auto or PCM or 2 channel downmix PCM, under HDMI, I get a PCM 96 hz 2 channel downmix

thats the big and little of it

-Gary

Well I am now using the 5.1 analog outputs with my backs. Of course I cheated with piggybacks to get it. But quite honestly it sounds terrific. Gary is definitely right, the sound from Serenity is amazing from the multichannel analogs. I had to tone down the bass a little. I then put my TX1000 in THX cinema and the sound is near perfect. I will be going back between coax and analog but so far the analog is winning hands down!

I have a similar configiuration HD-A1 -> VP30 -> Pioneer 74TXVi.
I got the same behavior, actually even worst.
When viewing on hd-dvd I have a serious problem with sound (at least 30db below average dvd). With POTO, amplifier almost at max, it's barely audible. Sound is better on the trailers at the beginning of the movie (only 20db below average).

Gary, (care to try another experiment?)

With regards to PCM, are you sure that the HD-A1 is sending out multi-channel PCM, is it loss-less PCM, is it 192 KHz per channel? Does your sound processor process multi-channel PCM. What bit rate can your sound processor handle PCM? The audio connections from the HD-A1 have me a bit concerned, I know it will all be ironed out (joke) with HDMI 1.3, but until then I am on the fence about the need to purchase today.

Can you connect the HD-A1 directly to your sound processor via SPDIF (coax or toslink) and send PCM from the HD-A1 and report back what happens? Perhaps the VP30 is not the component limiting the PCM to 2 channels.

I write this because I have a Denon AVR3803 that I believe only can do 2 channel PCM at 192 KHz, therefore if I feed it multi-channel PCM I do not believe I will get surrounds and center channel, I will get only left and right. But again, this might just be the source that I am using that is limiting the signal to 2 channels or the perhaps it is the recorded material that is limiting this to 2 channels.

Thanks, let me know your thoughts.

Regards.

I have a similar configiuration HD-A1 -> VP30 -> Pioneer 74TXVi.
I got the same behavior, actually even worst.
When viewing on hd-dvd I have a serious problem with sound (at least 30db below average dvd). With POTO, amplifier almost at max, it's barely audible. Sound is better on the trailers at the beginning of the movie (only 20db below average).
The low audio volume is a known problem with the Warner launch titles, although 30db sounds a bit extreme. Most people have been saying 10-20db. It's probably not because you are going through the VP30. It occurs for all audio output types from the A1 and XA1. You might want to try Serenity which does not have this problem.

When viewing on hd-dvd I have a serious problem with sound (at least 30db below average dvd). With POTO, amplifier almost at max, it's barely audible. Sound is better on the trailers at the beginning of the movie (only 20db below average).

Warner Bros. has acknowledged that there is an audio mastering error on their HD-DVD launch discs. It's a problem with the discs, not the player or your VP30.

The Serenity HD-DVD from Universal plays at normal volumes.

Can you connect the HD-A1 directly to your sound processor via SPDIF (coax or toslink) and send PCM from the HD-A1 and report back what happens? Perhaps the VP30 is not the component limiting the PCM to 2 channels.

When using the coax or Toslink outputs from the HD-A1, the player re-encodes the audio as full bit-rate DTS. The player will not pass PCM over S/PDIF.

Also note that all these audio issues with the HD-DVD players pertain only to the new audio formats encoded on the HD-DVD discs. Standard DVDs are output with normal DD and DTS bitstreams exactly as regular DVD players do.

With regards to PCM, are you sure that the HD-A1 is sending out multi-channel PCM, is it loss-less PCM, is it 192 KHz per channel? Does your sound processor process multi-channel PCM.
Many people have reported that the 5.1 channel PCM from the HD-A1 is 24/96. This is also what my receiver says. The HD-A1 will send out 5.1 channel PCM over HDMI if it is connected directly to a receiver that supports it. I'm not sure what it sends when connected to the VP30, but only 2 channels make it to the receiver.

Many people have reported that the 5.1 channel PCM from the HD-A1 is 24/96. This is also what my receiver says. The HD-A1 will send out 5.1 channel PCM over HDMI if it is connected directly to a receiver that supports it. I'm not sure what it sends when connected to the VP30, but only 2 channels make it to the receiver.
Are you finding any audio/video sync problems running the HDMI feed to the receiver>VP30>display?

Are you finding any audio/video sync problems running the HDMI feed to the receiver>VP30>display?
I didn't do much listening with the VP30 in the path once I determined that it was only passing 2 channels of PCM. I switched back to feeding the A1 directly to my receiver so I could get 5.1 channel PCM. After all, that's one of the reasons I bought it. :) I haven't noticed any sync problems with the direct path.

I have thought about running the video through the VP30 by HMDI and using analog out from the A1 directly to the receiver. That way I could still get 5.1 channel sound. With that setup I might get some sync problems. I can't remember if the A1 has any sync correction. My receiver does, but I don't know if it applies to the analog inputs.

I didn't do much listening with the VP30 in the path once I determined that it was only passing 2 channels of PCM. I switched back to feeding the A1 directly to my receiver so I could get 5.1 channel PCM. After all, that's one of the reasons I bought it. :) I haven't noticed any sync problems with the direct path.

I have thought about running the video through the VP30 by HMDI and using analog out from the A1 directly to the receiver. That way I could still get 5.1 channel sound. With that setup I might get some sync problems. I can't remember if the A1 has any sync correction. My receiver does, but I don't know if it applies to the analog inputs.
So you're feeding the A1 output direct to the receiver via HDMI. Now, are you feeding the HDMI output from the receiver into the VP30, and then to the display, or are you going directly to the display? That's what I was wondering about, if that scenario was inducing any video delay, it shouldn't since it is pass-through, but I was curious.

Yes only 2 of the PCM channels make it thru the VP30 on my end also, I can only get the 2 Front channels from the VP30, the center, surrounds and sub are missing

I can again get 2 channels PCM from the VP30 by getting a 2 channel downmix from the Toshiba

when I receive the first (with the center, surrounds, and sub are missing) my Sherwood P-965 reports 96 Hz, the later downmix is standard 48 Hz on my Sherwood

Analog outputs for me

-Gary

Many people have reported that the 5.1 channel PCM from the HD-A1 is 24/96. This is also what my receiver says. The HD-A1 will send out 5.1 channel PCM over HDMI if it is connected directly to a receiver that supports it. I'm not sure what it sends when connected to the VP30, but only 2 channels make it to the receiver.

Thats what happened to me when I tried a newer firmware. Two 96Khz channels(FL and FR) were making it to my receiver. So I loaded v1.00 back into the vp30 so I could get the DD from the DD+ stream. I still don't know why I am able to do this but it's definitely related somehow to the v1.00 firmware. since changing it stopped my ability to get DD from the A1 over HDMI but loading 1.00 again(along with the 1080i bug update) allows me to get DD again from the DD+ stream.

Are the HDMI inputs/output HDMI spec 1.0 or 1.1...?

I picked up an HD-A1 today at Best Buy. I have it hooked up as follows:

A1 via HDMI to VP30. VP30 to Sharp XV-Z2000 720p projector for video. VP30 via coax digital to B&K Ref 50 for audio. The A1 is connected to HDMI2 (I have an HD-Tivo connected to HDMI1).

The VP30 is set to HDMI2 and audio for that input is also set to HDMI2. The A1 is set to 1080i as I've read the VP30 will translate 1080i to 720p better than the A1.

If the A1 is set to HDMI audio Auto or PCM, my ref 50 states "Dolby D" in the display. I appear to get the full 5.1 surround, but no menu sounds.

If the A1 is set to HDMI audio bitstream, my ref 50 states "DTS Sur" in the display and I appear to get 5.1 DTS with menu sounds.

I've never updated the firmware on my VP30, so I am running 1.0.

A couple of things I did note, in trying different configs, I got motorboating for only the 3rd time since I've owned the VP30 (which was when they came out). I also got a few audio dropouts when using Auto or PCM but none when using bitstream, but admittedly I didn't listen long enough to definitively say no dropouts with bitstream.

So it appears I am in the same boat as aaronwt.

Finally! I'm not alone! :D

Finally! I'm not alone! :D

Are you getting audio dropouts? I'm getting them fairly regularly when using HDMI for the audio from the A1. It seems like in the same places too. Kind of annoying. I never upgraded from 1.0 firmware b/c I hadn't been affected by all the audio bugs others were, at least not to the extent of others.

I have heard them occassionally but at first thought it was from the disc. When I reversed the movie and played the section again the dropout wasn't usually there. But they have only happened a few times. I don't know if this is the VP30 or what. I don't get audio dropouts with both my HDTiVos or my Sony 975, all three using HDMI to the VP30. I'm going to have to bite the bullet here soon and just connect my Sony 975 and the A1 with the optical/coaxial input. With the ABT102 being released soon it will have to take priority since during the Summer I have 3 or 4 SD shows that I watch. The firmware update takes too long so it's not realistic to switch between v1.00 and whatever version needs to be used with the ABT102.

A1 via HDMI to VP30. VP30 to Sharp XV-Z2000 720p projector for video. VP30 via coax digital to B&K Ref 50 for audio. The A1 is connected to HDMI2 (I have an HD-Tivo connected to HDMI1).

A SPDIF coaxial or Toslink (optical) connection cannot carry the full bandwidth of Doldy Digital +. It downconverts to DTS. You'd get better audio results connecting the A1 to your prepro directly using the 6-channel analog outputs in the A1.

Anyone remember which firmware version it was that they changed the HDMI repeater mode of the VP30? You guys could try the one just before then as I suspect that this is what is changing the way the A1 negotiates what type of audio to send to/via the VP30 to whatever you've got on the other end.

I'm not sure why you'd get 2 channel PCM without it being down-mixed though. :confused: (Sounds typical for when the display reports back that it's only 2 channel capable).

Someone really needs to come up with a HDMI diagnostic box that you can put anywhere in the chain and it will report on the current video/audio formats and the status of all HDCP/Video/Audio negotiations without being involved in the chain path (i.e. not reporting itself as a HDMI repeater).

Anyone know what version of HDMI there Amp/display is?

The VP30 is v1.1 and I guess the A1 is v1.2.

I just hope the Sky HD box (UKs first HD satalite service) I've got on pre-order plays nice with the VP30... :rolleyes:

The VP30 is v1.1 and I guess the A1 is v1.2.


If the VP30 is v1.1 then it should pass multichannel audio but for some reason it is only passing 2 channel.

does anyone know if the HDMI on the VP30 can be upgraded via software to HDMI 1.2, 1.x??

The only real advantage to having 1.2 is that it will transport DSD/SACD.

does anyone know if the HDMI on the VP30 can be upgraded via software to HDMI 1.2, 1.x??

I doubt it and new silicon is not yet out for 1.2

If nothing is out yet for 1.2 then how long before there is equipment with 1.3 when they haven't even finalized those specs yet.

SJHT and Barry Gordon

Thanks for your comments yesterday regarding too many HDMI repeaters!

I do not understand. Is the PCM 2.0 problem only evident with the A1? In my configuration I have multiple DD 5.1 and DTS sources. They all pass through the VP30 on the way to the Pre/Pro, a Lexicon MC-1.

The Lexicon reports the exact format of the incoming audio it is processing. It clearly shows AC3 (What they put up for DD) and DTS, and while the stream is DTS or AC3 it switches between reporting 5.1 and 2.0 for the DVR's as the program content changes between commercials (2.0) and main program (5.1 when it is that).

I only have the DVR's on HDMI all else is on component and I have some test wav files and CD's that can be used to demonstrate the the DTS and DD are using the channels they are supposed to.

I just do not see the problem alluded to, unless it is an A1 issue only

A SPDIF coaxial or Toslink (optical) connection cannot carry the full bandwidth of Doldy Digital +.
DD+ must use a lot of bandwidth, because my cable company is providing 10Mb/s right now down a similar coax cable!

I understand the issue is more to do with Digital Copy Protection than bandwidth. It would've been quite easy to expand SPDIF spec to handle these next gen audio formats, but there's not HDCP on SPDIF.

StooMonster

Barry, it's alluded to the use of the new audio formats supported by the A1.

I think the A1 is the first common consumer device to output DD+ & 5.1 24b/96Khz PCM over HDMI and dynamicly downmix to 5.1 DTS (for SPDIF I think :confused: ).

Basicly the whole HDMI audio issue just got twice as complex and probably very few current repeaters, switches, vps, amp and displays have been exposed to these new formats and the negociations relating to them.

It could just be that the A1 doesn't do it 'right' but with little else to compare it to it's hard to see what's going on, it's not really a 2.0 PCM issue it's a 5.1 PCM issue where only the FR and FL channels are being heard. New format, new rules, whole new ball park (and more fun for DVDO to look at once they can find an A1 to play with ;) ).

Sometimes it's handy being several months behind here in the UK, we don't see HDDVD/BD till winter and are only just getting our first national HD broadcast service end of next month, which supports DD+ so might be fun. :rolleyes:

Ailean, Thanks. I was a little confused but that clears it up.

A SPDIF coaxial or Toslink (optical) connection cannot carry the full bandwidth of Doldy Digital +. It downconverts to DTS. You'd get better audio results connecting the A1 to your prepro directly using the 6-channel analog outputs in the A1.

I realize that. the issue we are trying to figure out is with some firmware versions of the VP30 (the later ones), using HDMI audio from the HD-AI only gets you 2 channels. Using 1.0 firmware, you end up with DD 5.1 using HDMI audio. This was more of an experiment than a permanent solution.

Although, I will say that the 5.1 that comes through the HDMI is fantastic and my Ref 50 is able to process it to 7.1 if I want and thus I can use my rear surrounds. Using the analog, I can't do any further processing.

The whole thing is interesting because the A1 only has a DTS encoder so by all rights if you are suing spdif you should be getting DTS. But the VP30 with 1.0 is taking the HDMI DD+ audio and passing a DD 5.1 signal via spdif pcm. What is it doing to accomplish that?

Does the addition of the ABT102 daughter board (and removal of SiI502) mean that the video signal path is now 10-bit throughout the entire VP30 processor?

StooMonster

If nothing is out yet for 1.2 then how long before there is equipment with 1.3 when they haven't even finalized those specs yet.

If I had to bet on when the spec would be agreed it would be Nov / Dec this year. Silicon to follow in Q1 (optomistic) 2007 and first products seveal months later. Makes the PS3 look 'challenged' :)

As I understand it:

(Connecting the HD-A1 to the VP30 via HDMI Audio/Video.)

When playing HD-DVD's.

(For those that don't get any sound when their VP30 is connected via HDMI from the HD-A1, remember to select the the HDMI audio input from the VP30's 'Input Adjust/Audio Input' menu. ;))

The HD-A1 setup menu has choices for the HDMI audio output of 'Auto', 'Bitstream', 'PCM' and Down mixed PCM.

The default sound format, on the first 3 HD-DVD's released, is Dolby Digital Plus. HD-A1's 'Auto' mode defaults to 'PCM' (96K) when using HDMI.

HDMI digital audio PCM (96K), output from the VP30's digital optical or coaxial jacks, sends a 2 channel signal to my Lexicon MC-12 and from there to the front speakers, but the 2 channels heard are only the L & R Surround channels of the main features sound track. :confused: You can't hear main dialogue while watching mouths move, just sound effects and surround music. Using the analog 5.1 outputs, you get the correct PCM (96K) sound mix, but this doesn't go through the VP30. :rolleyes:

When you manually choose 'HDMI Bitstream' or 'Down mixed PCM' (48K), on the HD-A1, the correct channels come through as a 2 channel mix on the VP30 to the Lexicon.

When playing DVD's on the HD-A1, using digital HDMI audio, through the VP30, the HD-DVD player's 'Auto' mode selects the proper selected bitstream and the correct sound mixes come through in 5.1 or 2 channel format as originally selected.

So you're feeding the A1 output direct to the receiver via HDMI. Now, are you feeding the HDMI output from the receiver into the VP30, and then to the display, or are you going directly to the display? That's what I was wondering about, if that scenario was inducing any video delay, it shouldn't since it is pass-through, but I was curious.
My current setup is all HDMI as follows:

A1 -> Receiver -> Projector

This works fine and I don't notice any audio sync problems. When playing back a DD+ soundtrack, the Receiver display indicates it is getting 5.1 channel PCM at 24/96. When I hooked up the VP30 it was like this, again all HDMI.

A1 -> VP30 -> Receiver -> Projector

In this case, the receiver display indicates it is only receiving 2 channel PCM. I don't know if the VP30 is causing the A1 to only output two channels, or if the VP30 is receiving 5.1 channels but only passing two of them. I did not run any detailed tests, I just wanted to see if it would pass 5.1. Since it does not, I don't think it really matters what it passes. But I did not try it long enough to know if there were sync issues.

I guess I could put the VP30 between the Receiver and Projector, but this would make things complicated. The VP30 has 4 ins, 1 out. The receiver has 2 ins, 1 out. I have 3 HDMI sources. The path above is how it should be done so that you can use the VP30 for HDMI switching between the sources and have access to the individual adjustments for each source.

I've searched the threads but found no specific answer. Has anyone here teamed the vp30 with an InFocus 5700 (1024x576) DLP projector? I've got a Denon 2900 DVD player and am wondering if I'll get a lot of bang for the buck by adding the vp30.
I am at a point where 1280x720 projectors are relatively cheap but am questioning whether changing the projector or adding the vp30 would be better for standard DVD viewing. Let's not consider HD-DVD or BluRay at this point.
If it makes a difference, I also have an HD-Tivo.
Thanks!

I've searched the threads but found no specific answer. Has anyone here teamed the vp30 with an InFocus 5700 (1024x576) DLP projector? I've got a Denon 2900 DVD player and am wondering if I'll get a lot of bang for the buck by adding the vp30.
I am at a point where 1280x720 projectors are relatively cheap but am questioning whether changing the projector or adding the vp30 would be better for standard DVD viewing. Let's not consider HD-DVD or BluRay at this point.
If it makes a difference, I also have an HD-Tivo.
Thanks!

I don't have that combo, but I have a 720p projector (Sharp Z2000) and a Denon 2900 DVD player (which I just pulled in favor of the HD-DVD player). It was night and day difference between using the VP30 and not using it. 480i out of the Denon to the VP30 and then to the sharp was a very nice picture.

480i directly to the sharp was not good at all. 480p directly to the projector was okay, but worse than using the vp30.

I doubt it and new silicon is not yet out for 1.2
I believe the Anthem D2 has HDMI 1.2. HDMI 1.2 specification was released in August 2005.

A1 -> VP30 -> Receiver -> Projector


That would be the best way I suppose. It's too bad these HDMI devices don't have an additional output for audio as in the scenario above all your audio for HDMI devices fed to the VP30 will be on one input on the receiver. If you have separate audio settings for different HDMI devices you're going to be stuck with one setting.

Maybe in practice it will be a non-issue, possibly you could program the receiver to apply different settings depending on the source device selected..I don't know, maybe it's not a big deal.

I've seen a few posts about when using the VP30 and 2 HDMI sources you get a blank/black screen. I too have experienced this problem with my DN PVR921 and Denon DVD1920 connected with HDMI. I can get a picture if I bypass the VP30 and if I change the output resolution of the PVR921 the VP30 recognizes that the input signal format has changed but still only outputs a blank picture.

I have found that if I perform a factory reset on VP30 you will get a picture back (of course you have to go through the pain of reconfiguring all your connections). What this tells me is that there is probably some register bit in the HDMI transmitter that is incorrectly being set so I would hope DVDO will be able to determine what this is and can come up with a fix.

I thought I would take this opportunity to say that if anyone is interested I have several pieces of equipment that can be used to test and compare (I'm located in the Sacramento area). Here's a brief list of some of the equipment:

DVDO VP30
Calibre Advantage-HD (Silicon Optix Realta based)
NEC TheaterSync (Silicon Optix Realta based)

Denon DVD-1920 (Faroudja)
Denon DVD-5910 (DVDO and Realta)
Pioneer and Samsung players
Bladelius Gondul (Swedish company, xxx.bladelius.com)
Toshiba A1 HD-DVD

Mitsubishi WD-52628 (52" 1080P DLP)
NEC PX-42XR3A (42" Plasma)
Pioneer Pro-510HD (Old HD RP HDTV)
Syntax 27" LCD
DN/RCA 42" RP HDTV

More satellite and computer related equipment than any really should have.

I also am working on a Gennum 9351 based design to "compete" against the other image processing equipment I have.

The posts in this forum are GREAT but I really don't have the time to keep up with all the posts and weed through the useful info vs. the not so useful posts! Feel free to PM me since I'd like to keep this post related to it's topic and not drift off on a tangent.

George

I have 4 HDMi sources and I haven't had a blank screen before.Three sources output at 1080i and one source outputs at 480i.

I believe the Anthem D2 has HDMI 1.2. HDMI 1.2 specification was released in August 2005.Humm do you have a source you can point to? Everything I've read seems to indicate it is 1.1. The D2 manual says the HDMI interface can do DD, DTS and M/C PCM, no mention of DSD or SACD.

now George has plenty of toys :eek:

-Gary

Wondering if, as I'm trying to be a bit proactive in anticipation of the release of the software update, I could ask a question. This is aimed at those out there who update their DVDO products using Virtual PC on a Mac and, say, a Keyspan USB-to-serial adapter. I know a couple of folks responded earlier in the thread that they've done so successfully.

Well, I'm all up-to-date in my Virtual PC, my serial adapter drivers and the installed Windows XP Pro is fully patched. Any caveats or known issues I should be aware of, or does it work as expected? I've installed maps on my Garmin GPS successfully using Virtual PC, but didn't know if this would present any unforseen issues. Thanks.

Feel free to PM me if you don't wish to post a reply here.

Had you or anyone had success updating their VP30 with the Keyspan USB-to-serial adapter? I followed the Tera Term Pro setup page and received a corrupt data file error on every attempt. :(

Edit: I always receive the following message from Tera Term:

Loading...Failure
Data file corrupt. Check File.
Press front panel button to restart.

This always occurs after 1025 bytes have been transferred.

File hashes for VP30_1.05.abt (just in case I got a corrupted download):
MD5: AB96B426372749F8BF194CADF67CACB9
SHA1: 991A2933A82558C0F9B76EADF160DCFE33132E8A
CRC-32: 6E2741F1

I believe the Anthem D2 has HDMI 1.2. HDMI 1.2 specification was released in August 2005.


The 1.2 specification has been out a while, if the D2 is shipping with 1.2 then this is the first silicon I have seen that has come to market. It has a low visibility in my domestic market. Most are however not very interested in 1.2 and are already talking 1.3. I down loaded my HDMI 1.2a spec in Jan 2006 and it is dated dec 14 2005.

Humm do you have a source you can point to? Everything I've read seems to indicate it is 1.1. The D2 manual says the HDMI interface can do DD, DTS and M/C PCM, no mention of DSD or SACD.
No, I can't swear to it, I thought I had read that it was in the D1-D2 thread but maybe not.

USB2 SERIAL sometimes have problems.

Are you sure you are uploading with the binary checkbox turned on?

The 1.2 specification has been out a while, if the D2 is shipping with 1.2 then this is the first silicon I have seen that has come to market. It has a low visibility in my domestic market. Most are however not very interested in 1.2 and are already talking 1.3. I down loaded my HDMI 1.2a spec in Jan 2006 and it is dated dec 14 2005.
As I noted in my previous post, the D2 may not have 1.2, I haven't looked back through the D2 thread to verify it. I think you're right about most manufacturers waiting until 1.3 though...

USB2 SERIAL sometimes have problems.

Are you sure you are uploading with the binary checkbox turned on?
Yep. I tried all sorts of combinations in my USB Serial adapter's config, too, like changing the FIFO buffer size from 16 (default) to none, 8, 56, 60, 63. The best I can ever upload is 1125 bytes.

Your reply then hit me -- my motherboard has two serial ports. :o I completely forgot about those two. I've been using the Keyspan USB-Serial adapter because it was the only reliable way for me to reprogram my MX-850 universal remote -- it had problems with a direct serial connection.

I'll post an update after I try it the old-fashioned way.

Edit: Success! I can't believe I wasted nearly 2 hours with the USB-to-serial adapter. :o

I tried some more tests on running the HD-A1 through the VP30. It is all very bizarre, I feel like Alice in Wonderland. Here is what I have found.

DD+ = Dolby Digital Plus on HD DVD disc with "Advanced Content"
DD = Standard Dolby Digital on std DVD disc

My current setup is all HDMI as follows:

A1 -> Receiver -> Projector

With this setup I get the following results.

A1 HDMI Output = Auto
DD+ outputs as 5.1 channel PCM
DD outputs as DD

A1 HDMI Output = Bitstream
DD+ outputs as 2 channel PCM (OK per updated manual table)
DD outputs as DD

A1 HDMI Output = PCM
DD+ outputs as 5.1 channel PCM
DD outputs as 5.1 channel PCM

So far all of that makes sense. If I force PCM output, even the std DD is decoded internally and output as PCM. I would expect the same occurs for std DTS soundtracks but I have not tried it.

But if I add the VP30 (firmware 1.0) as follows, it gets weird. Still an all HDMI path.

A1 -> VP30 -> Receiver -> Projector

A1 HDMI Output = Auto
DD+ outputs as DD, 5.1 channels, 48 kHz, 640 kbps
Std DD outputs as DD

A1 HDMI Output = Bitstream
DD+ outputs as DTS, 5.1 channels, 48 kHz, 1536 kbps
Std DD outputs as DD

A1 HDMI Output = PCM
DD+ outputs as DD, 5.1 channels, 48 kHz, 640 kbps
DD outputs as 2 channel PCM

Not what I would have expected for DD+. Curiouser and curiouser. :)

When I reported yesterday that I was getting 2 channel PCM, I had the A1 set to PCM output and I was using my Avia disk because I wanted to run some audio tests. I assumed the result would be the same with either DD or DD+ since they were the same without the VP30, but this is not the case. Sorry for the confusion, but the bottom line is still that I cannot pass 5.1 channel PCM through the VP30.

I don't think the VP30 could be encoding a PCM input to DD, so somehow it must be causing the A1 to extract std DD from the DD+ soundtrack. This is very interesting because info posted in the HD DVD forum indicates that with these "Advanced Content" discs, DD+ cannot be converted to std DD, it is mixed with the button sounds and is then re-encoded to DTS at 1.5 Mbps. Only disks with "Standard Content" should be able to extract a std DD output from DD+. People testing with SPDIF connections between the A1 and their receivers have verified that they get DTS. The mystery is, what is the VP30 telling the A1 that causes it avoid the mixing and just extract the std DD and output it instead?

Good homework...^^^^ Thanks for doing the research...

The mystery is, what is the VP30 telling the A1 that causes it avoid the mixing and just extract the std DD and output it instead?
Well, Sunnyvale is not too far from Campbell, run that puppy over there and let the folks at DVDO take a swing at it. :D

Thanks John,

I know that was a lot of work. :cool:

What is going to make this so difficult to solve and completely fix, is all the different variables in the connections that are causing different results. :eek:

When I used the HD-A1 HDMI out to the VP-30 and VP-30 coaxial/optical outs to my Lexion reciever (doesn't have HDMI), I had different results. See my post # 3476 on page 116. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7531918&&#post7531918

I don't think the VP30 could be encoding a PCM input to DD

why not ?

why not ?
Because I have never seen anything to indicate that it has a real time Dolby Digital encoder in it. Other than the sync delay I don't think it processes audio, I think it just redirects the audio to the desired output.

Well, Sunnyvale is not too far from Campbell, run that puppy over there and let the folks at DVDO take a swing at it. :D
If they can't get one to test soon, I would be happy to do that, or have them come to my house to check it out.

Montemayor,

In my testing, I noticed that USB2SERIAL adapters behave differently with how they regard stop bits than typical PC serial ports. Not sure why that is.

For me:


A1 > VP30 > Receiver
> Projector


I get two channel PCM with HDMI Auto and HDMI bitstream. SPDIF bitstream gives me DTS with the coax cable running from A1 to VP30 to Receiver.