I'm not sure if this has been posted yet or not so I apologize if this is already known.

The VP30 is using the Silicon Image SiI9031 and SiI9030 HDMI receiver and transmitters which are HDMI 1.1 compliant parts. HDMI receivers can act as either a sink (a typical example would be a TV) or a repeater (a typical example would be a receiver).

Since receivers typically pass HDMI signals onto a TV there are configured as repeaters and therefore anything that is received is accepted. When a HDMI receiver is configured as a sink they must contain a compliant E-EDID data structure. The source will then read this data structure to determine the capabilities of the sink device. This was implemented so that consumers could connect up HDMI devices and not have to worry about how to configure them (just like with USB there is an enumeration process which occurs when 2 devices are first connected).

Sink audio characteristics are indicated in a series of Short Audio Descriptors which are located in the EDID which contains a list of audio encodings supported such as the number of channels.

So my $0.02 to this conversation is that the EDID information in the VP30 needs to be updated to understand the information passed on by the A1. It's an easy fix and I can't blame DVDO for this since HD-DVD is in it's infancy and there really wasn't too much prototype devices out there to test with. I wouldn't be surprised if the A1 hasn't slipped on something based on the other known problems it has. :p

George, I am not sure you are correct.

I was under the impression that

(1) A repeater would always be configured as a repeater, never a Sink

(2) A repeater would query the tree of sink devices it was connected to (either directly or indirectly hence the tree) to determine the E-EDID characteristics of said devices. It might then maintain its own internal table. In this manner, repeaters would not have any E-EDID characteristics flashed into their memories, but would merely pass on the characteristics of the connected sinks (terminating devices)

The VP30 is using the Silicon Image SiI9031 and SiI9030 HDMI receiver and transmitters which are HDMI 1.1 compliant parts. HDMI receivers can act as either a sink (a typical example would be a TV) or a repeater (a typical example would be a receiver)
....
So my $0.02 to this conversation is that the EDID information in the VP30 needs to be updated to understand the information passed on by the A1. It's an easy fix and I can't blame DVDO for this since HD-DVD is in it's infancy and there really wasn't too much prototype devices out there to test with. I wouldn't be surprised if the A1 hasn't slipped on something based on the other known problems it has. :p
I hope you're right and that it is a simple firmware fix. Since the A1 may be the first consumer device to ouput 5.1 channel PCM over HDMI, I would have been pleasantly surprised if it had worked, but expected it might require some type of upgrade. At least both devices support downloadable firmware upgrades so it should not be a big hassle.

Barry:

The HDMI receiver can be configured as either a repeater or a sink (it's the same part just configured into one of 2 modes). You can change the mode of the HDMI receiver "on the fly". I can't remember which product I have but there's even a menu option to change the HDMI mode.

As far as what happens if the HDMI part is in repeater mode I'm not exactly sure if the EDID information is handshaked or not. The HDMI spec is available to almost anyone but Silicon Image's parts are under NDA so I have to be careful what I can and cannot say.

I know that when I was using a Silicon Image HDMI eval board and trying different products I did get some "errors" with certain combinations or retail products.

The good news is that there's only a few HD-DVD titles out now so nobody is really missing anything yet and until parts are available that can decode DD-HD and DTS-HD (whatever the names are, there's so many now I can't keep them all straight!) we're not going to get what we really want.

I haven't read through all the posts on the A1 but what I was surprised to learn was that it's basically a PC running Linux. I'm waiting for all the hacker community to jump on this and give us some good mods!

Moved from another thread:

I have a simple question for those with the iScan VP30 and a Toshiba HD-A1:

Will the VP30 scale a 1080I signal from the Toshiba? Specifically: if you use a Scope original, like POTO, can it stretch the image vertically to eliminate the black bars? Or conversely, if you have a full frame 1.77:1 16x9 title, can it shrink the image in the horizontal direction?

The reason I ask is that I am trying to determine if the VP30 would be usable in a constant height projection environment using an anamorphic lens. The projector accepts 1080 60I and 1080 24PsF over HDMI.

Thanks in advance.....

Vern

The A1 apparently has problems going to a repeater.

Hopefully, they can resolve this on their end - I don't think the VP30 is at fault here. Hopefully, the folks from DVDO can give it a try soon.

I tried some more tests on running the HD-A1 through the VP30. It is all very bizarre, I feel like Alice in Wonderland. Here is what I have found.



A1 -> Receiver -> Projector


A1 -> VP30 -> Receiver -> Projector


Have you tried,

A1 -> Receiver -> VP30 -> Projector....?

I have a simple question for those with the iScan VP30 and a Toshiba HD-A1:

Will the VP30 scale a 1080I signal from the Toshiba? Specifically: if you use a Scope original, like POTO, can it stretch the image vertically to eliminate the black bars? Or conversely, if you have a full frame 1.77:1 16x9 title, can it shrink the image in the horizontal direction?

The reason I ask is that I am trying to determine if the VP30 would be usable in a constant height projection environment using an anamorphic lens. The projector accepts 1080 60I and 1080 24PsF over HDMI.

Vern, the VP30 will do everything you need. I watched the Serenity HD-DVD (2.35:1) output from the HD-A1 at 1080i on my 2.35:1 screen with no problems. The VP30 will scale 1080i and perform all the necessary aspect ratio control for constant-height arrangements.

Vern I am getting ready to do a constant height CRT setup, the VP30 as Josh said works 100% correctly in this regard, it does everything we need for that along with storing multiple display presets, which you will need when flipping between 1.85, 2.35 and 1.33 flms

-Gary

One more quick question: Will the VP30 output 24PsF?

Vern

Vern,

As far as I'm aware the VP30 does not currently do 24PsF

Have you tried,

A1 -> Receiver -> VP30 -> Projector....?
No, I haven't tried that. I will when I have some time. It might be an interesting experiment, but not a good long term solution for me. I have 3 HDMI sources and my receiver will only switch two of them. Plus that, I would loose the independent adjustment of inputs that the VP30 offers.

I don't have that combo, but I have a 720p projector (Sharp Z2000) and a Denon 2900 DVD player (which I just pulled in favor of the HD-DVD player). It was night and day difference between using the VP30 and not using it. 480i out of the Denon to the VP30 and then to the sharp was a very nice picture.

480i directly to the sharp was not good at all. 480p directly to the projector was okay, but worse than using the vp30.

Thanks for that information. Sounds very promising. Does anyone here have experience using this with a 1024x576 projector though?

The HDMI receiver can be configured as either a repeater or a sink (it's the same part just configured into one of 2 modes). You can change the mode of the HDMI receiver "on the fly". I can't remember which product I have but there's even a menu option to change the HDMI mode.
Thanks for posting the explanation. My receiver has an HDMI menu item with two options.

1. Play the audio through the speakers and pass the video to the HDMI output.

2. Don't play the audio through the speakers, pass both the audio and video to the HDMI output

So would option 1 be a "sink" and option 2 be a "repeater"?

Right now I have it set to option 1, but it might be interesting to set it to option 2 and see what happens.

I do not believe either of those options have anything to do with repeater vs sink. They are merely how the audio is to be steered. In the first case, the assumption might be that you have a projection system that does not do audio at all (that is my case). In the second case that the "TV" is really a complete audio video device fully handling audio and video (generally pretty rare in that very few "TV's" do a credible job on high end audio.

The repeater vs sink really is an issue on "how/where from' does the data for informing a source what the current HDCP status is. It is the task of a Video sink (a video display device that only accepts the video but does not pass it on) to inform upstream devices (sources) as to their capability to handle the video and "Protect it".

A repeater might deal with several video displays or other output devices such as a digital video recorder and that is where the problem gets tricky. The whole intent is to disable the high quality digital signal that loses nothing on copying from being copied. The "No generational loss" is what scares the intellectual property owners.


I do not know of (Perhaps I can be educated) of any audio systems that report the equivalent of E-EDID information, or other data about possible recording devices to allow for protection of the audio content.


Hope that helps

No, I haven't tried that. I will when I have some time. It might be an interesting experiment, but not a good long term solution for me. I have 3 HDMI sources and my receiver will only switch two of them. Plus that, I would loose the independent adjustment of inputs that the VP30 offers.
Yes, I was only considering it to extract the audio from the A1 HDMI output since the VP30 doesn't have a second HDMI output to utilize for feeding audio to a receiver.

As far as I'm aware the VP30 does not currently do 24PsF That's unfortunate. I was about ready to pull out the ol' credit card for the new Toshiba HD DVD player and also order a VP30. As I was standing there at the dealer, rolling credits started up on the demo unit running POTO.

It was then that I realized that I cannot go back to the motion judder induced by the 3/2 pulldown processing caused by running a display at 60Hz when viewing a 24 FPS film source. Since my projector only supports 60I or 24PsF, 24PsF is a mandatory scaler/processor feature for me before I can make the jump to HD DVD. I can (and do) run 24PsF with no problems with either an NVidia or an ATI video card.

Believe me, motion judder is intolerable on a 5' x 12' screen.

I believe the VP30 currently does 48I. I wonder if the Qualia would interpret that as 24 PsF?

Here are the timings for 24 PsF:

Horiz: 1920 Pixels FP 600 BP 88 Total 2750 26.945 KHz
Vert: 540 Lines FP 2 BP 5 Total 562 (Per Field) 47.952 Hz
Pixel Clock: 74 MHz Mode: Interlaced

Tried calling the DVDO support line, got a recording, left a message, awaiting a callback.

Vern

Vern you may be able to dial that in on the VP30, let me go check those timings out for you

-Gary

Vern the VP30 has a 1920x1080p mode with 24Hz frame lock output, it also has 48Hz as you mentioned

also keep in miond that the HD-DVD's are currently mastered at 1080p 24p, the Toshiba player may get a a firmware update to allow that output, no one knows for sure right now

-Gary

I don't expect to see 24P from anything in the near future. The refresh rate is simply too low to be usable with CRT displays. However, 48Hz, either progressive or interlaced is doable, even on CRT's assuming a reasonably long phospher persistence. The 24P frame lock mode of the VP30 outputs at 48 and 72 Hz, both I and P, if I interpret the docs correctly.

24Psf is not really 24P, but actually 48I with both fields taken from the same source frame which eliminates any possibilty of temporal artifacting.

If the VP30 allows me to tweak all the video parameter timings, there is a good chance that it could be set to something the Qualia will accept.

Vern

The 24P frame lock mode of the VP30 outputs at 48 and 72 Hz, both I and P, if I interpret the docs correctly.That's correct. However, locking to the original 24 Hz film rate will only occur if the input to the VP30 is 480i. The VP30 can't do cadence detection on a 1080i signal, so if you were looking to get judder-free motion from a 1080i source you won't find it with the VP30.

24Psf is not really 24P, but actually 48I with both fields taken from the same source frame which eliminates any possibilty of temporal artifacting.

If the VP30 allows me to tweak all the video parameter timings, there is a good chance that it could be set to something the Qualia will accept.While you should be able to produce a signal the projector will accept, you can't currently get a 1080p/24sF signal. The SMPTE RP 211-2000 spec for segmented frame formats specifies which pair of fields - even/odd or odd/even - should be combined for the frame. The VP30 hardware does not currently have the capability to enforce which field pair a frame is mapped into, so you'll have a 50/50 chance of having it right. Every time you pause or restart the source, or potentially with every bad edit, the field pairing could change.

There is good news, though. The hardware which generates the output timing is in an FPGA and the firmware for that FPGA can be updated over the VP30's serial port. I've already implemented changes to that particular VP30 FPGA which will enforce the correct field pairing to produce 1080p/24sF. You'll still need to wait for a VP30 firmware update which adds this FPGA modification as well as the software to support it, though. I don't have any ETA on when that might be delivered (although user requests to the DVDO help or technical support lines should make it happen sooner ;) ).

- Dale Adams

Does the addition of the ABT102 daughter board (and removal of SiI502) mean that the video signal path is now 10-bit throughout the entire VP30 processor?No. There's still just an 8-bit input path to the FPGA which replaces the SiI504. However, all internal processing is done to an accuracy of at least 10 bits, and the ABT102 has a full 10-bit output to the rest of the 10-bit signal path, so you can get better than 8-bit results under certain circumstances.

- Dale Adams

The VP30 can't do cadence detection on a 1080i signal, so if you were looking to get judder-free motion from a 1080i source you won't find it with the VP30.D**n!!!!! Thats exactly what I was looking for. I already have judder free operation for 480I sources with my HTPC. Oh well, I guess I'll wait until someone figures out how to do this. Maybe the VP40?????

Vern

I do not know Dale. I used to be a pretty good mathematician. I am now pretty old but I still think I remember my numerical methods. With 8 bit accuracy your uncertainity error is constrained in the range of 1/(2^9). If you do further arithmetic in 10 bit precision, then you should not introduce any additional rounding errors above the original error of 1 in 2^9.

However I do not believe you will make it more accurate than the original constrained error.

But then again maybe I am just getting too old to remember

With 8 bit accuracy your uncertainity error is constrained in the range of 1/(2^9). If you do further arithmetic in 10 bit precision, then you should not introduce any additional rounding errors above the original error of 1 in 2^9.

However I do not believe you will make it more accurate than the original constrained error.
I wasn't referring to accuracy when I said 'better'. I should have been more specific, I guess. Let's look at a couple of cases which map out some extremes:

1) With film-based sources - e.g., 3:2 pulldown - the input data essentially appears at the output unchanged. If the input data has 8-bit resolution, then that same 8-bit data is present at the deinterlacer output regardless of whether there's a full 10-bit data path or only an 8-bit data path. I.e., with 8-bit source data the 10-bit path buys you nothing.

2) For motion-adaptive processing new pixel values are calculated or 'created'. In older deinterlacer designs the pixel calculations were the results of linear filter calculations or blending operations. For this type of operation your assessment is correct in that you don't have more 'accurate' results. I wasn't really speaking of 'accuracy', though, as I'm not sure the term has much meaning with the non-linear processing used in edge-adaptive pixel calculations. The whole purpose of edge-adaptive processing is to hide aliasing artifacts. I.e., you're trying to create new pixels which will make object edges look as smooth as possible. Producing results at 10-bit resolution can provide a subjectively more pleasing (or smoother) looking edges than doing so at 8-bit resolution, even if the source data was limited to 8-bits.

Another example I can think of where producing output data at a higher resolution than that of the input data provides obvious benefits is gamma correction. This is effectively a non-linear transfer function which maps a linearly increasing input sequence to a (monotonic but) non-linear output sequence. With 8-bit input data and 8-bit output data you can only produce 256 unique output values, which means that some of the input values will be mapped to the same output value. This can result in visible banding or stepping in the output image. However, if you map that same 8-bit input data to a 10-bit (or higher) output, then you can generate a unique output value for each input value and maintain a smoother (and more subjectively pleasing) output.

- Dale Adams

There is a big difference between being too old to remember and being too old to want to remember. Monotonic non linear output sequences will indeed blur the distinctions between the two. I want my VP40.

The VP30 can't do cadence detection on a 1080i signal, so if you were looking to get judder-free motion from a 1080i source you won't find it with the VP30.

But the new ABT102 *can* do cadence detection on a 720p signal and therefore will be able to do 48hz judder-free film, is this correct ? (So a 720p display should still be
able to benefit from VP30+ABT102.)

... although it's currently a moot point as the A1 is doing a 720p poorly. Maybe the next HD-DVD player and/or BR is better.

Another example I can think of where producing output data at a higher resolution than that of the input data provides obvious benefits is gamma correction.

Would 10-bit output data help if the output of the VP30 were being fed digitally to another device, like the Mosquito HDMI (assuming it could accept and use 10-bit data in a useful way), to reduce the effects of rounding? More generally, would this be useful to any device that does its own processing, like a TV that had 10-bit internal processing? I'm guessing the answer will be "It depends."

--Andre

But the new ABT102 *can* do cadence detection on a 720p signal and therefore will be able to do 48hz judder-free film, is this correct ? (So a 720p display should still be
able to benefit from VP30+ABT102.)

Isn't the ABT102 just for SD?

--Andre

Isn't the ABT102 just for SD?

--Andre

I understand it's *deinterlacing* for SD interlaced material. For cadence detection on progressive this is what Dale said :


The cadence detection on progressive sources has been working for a few months now. I haven't tried 1080p yet, but it appears to work well on 480p, 576p and 720p. One potential issue with doing this is that if you're dealing with a signal that's been deinterlaced (as opposed to being a native progressive source), then you only get the quality level produced by that deinterlacer. DL will happily detect a cadence in a progressive signal that's been deinterlaced using a motion-adaptive or bob technique, so the end quality may not be as good as you'd expect. With a good source, though, DL maintains the quality level in the source as it doesn't alter the pixel data, but just indicates which are the original (film) frames.


so it appears to me the cadence detection will also work on 720p.

EDIT: I found the original post from Dale confirming this:


Actually, it will provide a benefit for 720p sources. If you have a 720p/60 source with 3:2 pulldown, DL will perform cadence detection on that signal. This allows genlocked frame rate conversion to 48 Hz or 72 Hz (i.e., 2:2 and 3:3), similar to what the current iScans do now with a 480i source.


This feature, to me, will be great once we have a HD-DVD player that does 720p properly. (To extend it further: if a player can output 108024p, can the DL do cadence detection on it ? And if it can, it should then be able to scale it to 720p isn't it ? i.e. very helpful for a 720p display owner like me)

DL = ABT's internal code name for our next generation deinterlacer (SD/HD)

ABT102 = An FPGA implementation of DL's SD algorithms

Precision Deinterlacing Card = A daughter card with the ABT102 which can be added to the iScan VP30

Cadence detection on progressive sources is a feature which is included under the DL umbrella, but they are not implemented on the SD-capable (480i/576i) ABT102.

:o okay I guess I was expecting too much...
will there be a ABT104 that does HD and another daughter card that has ABT104 in it to be added to the VP30 ? (i.e. making the VP30 a "modular" design ?)

With the addition of ABT102 the VP30 will be one of the best (if not 'the best') SD deinterlacer on the market. However, Dale and Josh have said time and time again in numerous posts above that there will not be an HD deinterlacing card for the VP30.

Over on the British AVforums.com Dale explained here (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2815064&postcount=110) that this was due to a bandwidth limit in VP30's processing pipeline, plus increased power requires and the heat dissipation needs of a 1080i deinterlacer.

However, as there's been so much discussion of DL and it's HD capabilities, and companies develop new products all the time, I imagine that it's pretty safe to assume that ABT will produce an HD Video Processor sometime.

StooMonster

c722,

That requires a different architecture (VP50?). If the VP30 does this well, we can only imagine what the VP50 will bring...

Any word yet on the status of the ABT102?

Any word yet on the status of the ABT102?

What he means is where is mine !!!

Daniel.

End of the month, 28th+ apparently...

The AVS ABT102 offer sticky has a bit of an update.

May is going to be such a loooonnnnggggg month.... :(

Kind of late to the discussion.

When did we jump from the VP40 to VP50? :confused: :D :D

I just unwrapped my VP30 last week.

My money is on the VP60 :)

My money is on the VP60 :)

Nah, the IScan TruHD+, or the VP300 with 6 HDMI 1.4 inputs, 2160i/p and Firewire Audio output to support 5.1 24/96 MLP to legacy Amps instead of Coax/Opti SPDIF. :rolleyes: [can but dream]

I'm sorry to ask. I've searched and found nothing.

Can the VP30 (or any machine for that matter) take an incoming PAL digital cable signal and convert to NTSC?

I saw on the original post that the price is $199-$499 in late April. Is this still valid?

Thanks, from somewhat of a novice:)

At least since we are getting to add the ABT102, they will skip the VP30+ model. :)

Thanks for posting the explanation. My receiver has an HDMI menu item with two options.

1. Play the audio through the speakers and pass the video to the HDMI output.

2. Don't play the audio through the speakers, pass both the audio and video to the HDMI output

So would option 1 be a "sink" and option 2 be a "repeater"?

Right now I have it set to option 1, but it might be interesting to set it to option 2 and see what happens.
My Yamaha HTR-5990 receiver has a menu setting called "HDMI Set". It can be set to either "HTR-5990" or "Other". If it is set to HTR-5990, the receiver should pass only the video to the HDMI output and playback the audio. If set to Other, the receiver should pass the audio and video to the HDMI output.

I have been using the Toshiba HD-A1 connected directly to one of the receiver's HDMI inputs with this menu item set to HTR-5990. I get 5.1 channel PCM from the HD-A1 as expected. As an experiment I tried setting this to Other. I didn't test all of the possible options in my post above, but with the A1 HDMI output set to PCM I got the same result as when connecting the VP30 between the A1 and the receiver. The receiver indicated that it was receiving a Dolby Digital bitstream at 640 kbps.

What surprised me was that the receiver processed and output this DD audio over the speakers. I had expected that it would just pass it to the HDMI output and I would get no sound. Maybe this is because the HDMI output of the receiver goes to a Sony projector that doesn't accept audio over HDMI.

So it seems that not getting 5.1 channel PCM passed through the VP30 is likely a bug in the HD-A1, not the VP30. I was actually hoping it was the VP30 since we are more likely to get a quick firmware fix from DVDO than Toshiba. So I think DVDO is off the hook for this one, I will need to report the problem to Toshiba.

I'm sorry to ask. I've searched and found nothing.

Can the VP30 (or any machine for that matter) take an incoming PAL digital cable signal and convert to NTSC?

I saw on the original post that the price is $199-$499 in late April. Is this still valid?

Thanks, from somewhat of a novice:)

The iScan VP30 can take PAL (50Hz) and convert to NTSC (60Hz), as can the HD and HD+.

The pricing that you mention is for the Precision Deinterlacing Card which is an enhancement card for the VP30 which dramatically improves the SD deinterlacing.

The MSRP on the iScan VP30 is $1999USD.

The iScan VP30 can take PAL (50Hz) and convert to NTSC (60Hz), as can the HD and HD+.One caveat here: While the iScan can convert a 50 Hz input to a 60 Hz output (and vice versa) it does not produce a standard definition interlaced output. I.e., it won't output 480i or 576i.

- Dale Adams

Can the VP30 (or any machine for that matter) take an incoming PAL digital cable signal and convert to NTSC?
The iScans (and other VPs) can take 576i@50Hz (PAL digital cable signal) and output it as 480p@60Hz i.e. progressive-scan NTSC. iScan's can not output PAL as interlaced NTSC. So, if you have an NTSC display that can accept progressive scan signals (480p) then you can convert PAL to work on it.

StooMonster

EDIT: ooops, left my window open for way too long before posting :)

Stoo and Josh,

Thanks a ton!

I have a Sammy HLP-5674W, which is 720P native.

What you are both saying is that I will be able to connect an incoming digital sattelite receiver that outputs PAL, use a VP such as iScan, and see a great picture. Even a HD PAL picture?

I would like my vp30 better if Anchor bay would just answer their phone. I managed to get a defective VP30 and I must say their customer support on a scale of 1 to 10 is about a 3 to 4. I've call 5 times this morning, I havn't got to talk to a live person yet. This doesn't give me that warm fuzzy feeling about Anchor bay. I will try again this afternoon.
Luckyflyer

Ok, Aaron from tech support called me back this afternoon. He did what he said he would do when I talked to him last Friday (ship out a replacement VP30) so all is well. I guess that they have been very busy today.
Luckyflyer

Are there any threads on recommended setups for the VP30? In paticular I was looking for DVD source (analog) to a 720P projector (H710AE) via HDMI/DVD. I think I'm following the directions properly but they certainly aren't crystal clear to a newbie. I didn't see a sticky for it and a begineers guide would be a great assest. I'm also looking to scale my Sat. receiver SD but once I have the DVD down I think I can duplicate it easily enough.

Thanks,
Jeff

It is good to hear they took care of you luckyflyer..

I would like my vp30 better if Anchor bay would just answer their phone. I managed to get a defective VP30 and I must say their customer support on a scale of 1 to 10 is about a 3 to 4. I've call 5 times this morning, I havn't got to talk to a live person yet. This doesn't give me that warm fuzzy feeling about Anchor bay. I will try again this afternoon.
Luckyflyer

Ok, Aaron from tech support called me back this afternoon. He did what he said he would do when I talked to him last Friday (ship out a replacement VP30) so all is well. I guess that they have been very busy today.
Luckyflyer

I am sorry about your bad experience. While I understand that it can be frustrating when you can't get through to a person, it still is very helpful for us if leave a voice message that we can respond to rather than posting on a forum which we may not see immediately.

I am sorry about your bad experience. While I understand that it can be frustrating when you can't get through to a person, it still is very helpful for us if leave a voice message that we can respond to rather than posting on a forum which we may not see immediately.


Actually I did call and leave a message when I first realised that my unit was defective and never got a call back. I waited until late the next day and decided to try again ands luckily caught Aaron (in between calls I suppose). So today When I couldnt even get the operator to answer I was very frustrated. Aaron said that he would email me with a tracking #, he said he sent it but I didn't get it, he sent it again and I got it in under 1 minute, go figure. So from my point of view it looked like another case of what we all have experienced more than we care to remember, poor customer service. I used the forum to vent. BTW Aaron saw this message immediatly as we were speaking on the phone and I told him that I would post a follow up message.

Thanks for your help
Luckyflyer

ToneDeafJeff,

When I started with the VP30 I was in the same position. I have a lot of it figured out now and offer the following.

The overall goal is to get all the scaling in any and every "source to sink" chain to be done by the VP30 under the assumption that it is the best device to do the work which it was specifically designed for. To do this some settings are obvious and logical. Some are not so obvious and I played with them. if I varied them and I could see no difference then I took a pragmatic approach and did not care. Looking good made me feel good.

Start with the VP30 output configuration. Match that to your projector. The sub goal here is to get it so the projector does no scaling. This should be achieved with a 1:1 pixel mapping between the VP 30's output and the Projectors native resolution. This means that for every pixel of data the VP30 puts out there is one and only one pixel in the projector that will act on that data. (I think the actual term is an isomorphic mapping). The test patterns help in the recognition of that state, and if I recall right the DVDO HD or HD+ manual has better information on the subject than the VP30 manual. In my case ((BenQ PE8700 PJ having 1280x720p native resolution) it also involved setting the aspect ratio parameter to ANA (anamorphic, do not ask why, but that is what did it). The BenQ service manual also stated that the color space was PC oriented and not Video which means color values are represented by the integers 0 to 255 as opposed to 16 to 235 (I think those are the numbers). I set the output of the VP30 to be PC. I also set the Horizontal output rate to be 60hz (59.94) unlocked which I believe after reading many posts says the output frame rate will be constant and the VP30 will adjust between whatever the input is and the 59.94 number.

I then attacked the inputs. Starting with my cable receivers which are SA8300HD DVR's. I set them not to do any resolution scaling by instructing them to output all resolutions, i.e. put out what it gets from the transmission (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). I am not sure what the proper setting for PC vs video color is but I could not see a difference as I varied it.

On my DVD players I set them not to deinterlace but to put out the 480i signal recorded on the DVD. I have no PAL DVD's which I believe are at 576i. the DVD players do not do any scaling.

I did similar things for my other inputs, a Roku HD1000 is set to output at 720p as is a Sony PS2.

I get very high quality pictures. I am also lucky in that my cable supplier is now all digital on the cable, so on certain transmissions (those at 720p) there is (I think) a 1:1 (isomorphic) mapping right from the cable head end to my display.

I see no judder on any source.

My system is controlled by a PC and when it boots or reloads the control application it sets up the VP30 with all of the parameter values I want. I have not seen a need to change any of them on the fly (while changing input sources) or stations or DVD's.

Hope the above helps.

I think it is only fair that I explain what happened with Luckyflier so those reading can judge for themselves how our customer support is on a scale of 1 to 10.

We were first notified by Luckyflier about his unit with a non-functional LCD Display on Friday (4-21-2006), we issued him an RMA, and shipped an expedited advance replacement unit which is scheduled to arrive via UPS tomorrow. I would also like to point out that despite not leaving a message today, our support staff was made aware of the post on AVS Forum and was able to track down his contact information and get in contact with him.

We pride ourselves with our abilities to take care of our customers and provide solid products. If you have an issue with a DVDO product, please contact our technical support hotline at:

U.S. Customers: (866) 423-3836 extension 333
International Customers (408) 379-3836 extension 333
If we are unable to answer the phone, please leave a message or drop us an email at help@dvdo.com.

So if I have a PAL dvd and want to play it back on an NTSC set using my Denon 3910 which is connected to the VP30 via sdi, what settings do I need to use? My RPTV will accept either 1080i or 540p.

speters - All you would need to do is put the DVD in and press 'Stop' switch the output to PAL (there is an 'NTSC/PAL' button on the Denon remote) and press 'Play'. The default frame rate output for a 50Hz input is 59.94Hz on the VP30 so there is no need to change any settings.

This all assumes that you either have gotten around region coding on the player or that the content has no region coding.

If you did want to change the frame rate that the iScan VP30 it outputting, all you would need to is go is select the 'Output Setup' menu, then select 'Framerate' and change the framerate to your desired output frequency (x.xxHz). There is a 50Hz and 60Hz memory that can be adjusted. For example if you wanted a 50Hz input signal to be output as 50Hz you can change that setting without changing how a 60Hz input signal is treated. Alll of the settings in the 'Output Setup' menu are saved in each Display Profile, so if your display accepts multiple scan rates you could also use these settings to get judder-free playback of film (48/72Hz) and video (60Hz) content.

Check DVDO website for ABT102 shipping, now slipped to early May, if I recall it was once late April.

Deja Vu all over again. Ship date for ABT 102 pushed back until Early May. This is what DVDO did with the VP30. Look, I understand that they want to put out a quality product. We all want a quality product, but one of the biggest sins in the business world is to miss projected dates. If DVDO needs to tweak, adjust, or improve a product....fine, but don't make promises you can't keep. Keep your announcements regarding ship dates to yourselves until you get close enough to deliver as promised. Heaven forbid exceed your promises. I'm sorry to be unloading in this manner, but I get really tired of the hype and anticipation that is perpetuated. I will continue to wait for the ISF calibration until I can place the VP30 in service with all its expected compliments, and considering the fact that I waited over three years to finish my dream theater I suppose I can wait another few weeks. However, I'm not DVDO's biggest fan right now.

If you want to really feel bad, try dealing with some other leading edge suppliers in the HT world. On a comparison chart DVDO stands pretty near the top in my book.

I know of one major supplier that promised things (written marketing) in a sophisticated remote, and then just disregarded what it said and all is customers, dropping the product support

Another put out a design where the unit's power supply will fail after 12 months (the warranty period) and then charges $75 to replace the supply. This supplier also has forsaken its user community on its BBS and not fulfilled its marketing statements for the unit.

Yes I still have problems with my VP30, but they are mostly low level in that I rarely have to leave my seat to fix the issue. I am a widower so I do not have to contend with wife or family and perhaps that helps.

In my opinion the hype and anticipation has been perpetuated by members of this forum and not by DVDO. Many of us are looking forward to the upgrade.

They announced an estimate of late April and may be off by a week more or less.
I for one will live with it without upsetting my life.

I agree that DVDO redeems itself in many ways with its dedication to satisfaction in the end, but its stiil very frustrating to patiently wait then have the rug pulled out from under at the last second. I mean why wait until the deadline is upon us to push it back. Don't they know prior to the projected dates that they are not going to be able to deliver. Anyhow, I hope they can deliver this time according to the timeframe that THEY set.

ToneDeafJeff,



On my DVD players I set them not to deinterlace but to put out the 480i signal recorded on the DVD. I have no PAL DVD's which I believe are at 576i. the DVD players do not do any scaling.


Hope the above helps.

Jeff; Barry has given you a very detailed list, I just wanted to add one thing. If you have a dvd player that uses the DCDi deinterlacing chip, such as my Denon 1600, and the equivalent Panasonics, you will most likely get better results outputting 480p from your DVD player to the VP30 when watching video material. I know that is the case with my setup. Once DVDO ships the ABT card, and I get it installed, then Barry's advice to let the VP30 do ALL of the scaling and deinterlacing will be 100% correct.

And remember - it's your gear - you can always hit the progressive scan button on your dvd player, and judge for yourself ;)

In my opinion the hype and anticipation has been perpetuated by members of this forum and not by DVDO. Many of us are looking forward to the upgrade.

They announced an estimate of late April and may be off by a week more or less.
I for one will live with it without upsetting my life.


The DVDO site listed "Shipping late April" not "estimated" shipping late April (which BTW DVDO now states "Shipping early May" not "estimated" shipping early May), and my life will not radically be disturbed in the grand scheme of things. However, expectations are based upon statements initiated by DVDO not by what the members of this forum have discussed. Look, I like hundreds of others no doubt have enjoyed the VP30 in spite of the audio problems, but this expensive hobby of ours dictates that we all spend good money to get the most out of the experience. So, when we spend good money is it too much to ask that we get good results. Arguing that DVDO should be commended because its failures are less harmful than others failures is a weak argument. The standards of excellence are set by business leaders who deliver on their promises not by those who've established themselves as lacking the ability to deliver. Wouldn't you agree.

Brian

You had better find a new hobby if you are this disenchanted. :rolleyes: DVDO is one of the very best in the industry as evidenced by the vast majority of posts in this thread.

brianhd - find me a processor that does as much or more for the same money or less, and is as easy to deal with as DVDO, and I'll consider it. DVDO is a little like democracy - it is far from perfect, but all the others worse. ;)

OK Lumagen and Faroudja fans - you guys are fine too, but I will still stand by the first sentence, if not the second. :)

Could be worse, you could be across the pond and have to wait even longer for the delayed release to be slow boated over! ;)

Don't suppose you'll be releasing FW 1.07 this weekend to keep us entertained Josh? I'm sure you posted it'd be up 'next week' a couple of weeks ago... :confused:

EDIT: :D Not going mad, from the 14th April Josh@DVDO writes "The software that Gary has is essentially what will be version 1.07 when we release it externally (We plan on doing this early next week)."

Deja Vu all over again. Ship date for ABT 102 pushed back until Early May. This is what DVDO did with the VP30. Look, I understand that they want to put out a quality product. We all want a quality product, but one of the biggest sins in the business world is to miss projected dates. If DVDO needs to tweak, adjust, or improve a product....fine, but don't make promises you can't keep. Keep your announcements regarding ship dates to yourselves until you get close enough to deliver as promised. Heaven forbid exceed your promises. I'm sorry to be unloading in this manner, but I get really tired of the hype and anticipation that is perpetuated. I will continue to wait for the ISF calibration until I can place the VP30 in service with all its expected compliments, and considering the fact that I waited over three years to finish my dream theater I suppose I can wait another few weeks. However, I'm not DVDO's biggest fan right now.

I've been on this DVDO upgrade train for a couple years now. They've done this on essentially every upgrade. You just take the time they say they'll ship and add a month or so and be pleasantly surprised if it happens to show up "early". There was no question in my mind that I would not have an ABT102 in April. Hopefully I'll have one up and running by the time summer rolls around.

Hitting ship estimates for technology products is extremely difficult. You have no idea if that last bug will take you an hour or three weeks to squash. Then you've got to deal with manufacturers overseas who are likely to build thousands of them out of spec, the printer is late with the manuals, cargo issues, etc. A couple years back we had a big earthquake in Taiwan disrupt one of our product launches. You never know.

DVDOs openness about upcoming products is a double edged sword. My company will never ever talk about an upcoming product until it is essentially done and the factories are ramping. This leaves competitors and customers in the dark until the product is essentially on the shelves, but we rarely get into trouble about promises unkept or another company beating us to market. On the other hand DVDO is shockingly open about its upcoming products and technology. It gets customers giddy with anticipation and helps them to make more informed buying decisions, but often leads to frustration when dates slip and features are pulled.

In terms of pulled features, I still think that advertising the VP30 as having nonlinear stretch is a very, very bad idea. That's a false advertising lawsuit waiting to happen guys. You're just getting away with it because you're not large enough to be seen as a target by bottom feeding class action lawyers. Add a "coming soon" caveat or something.

Anyway, enough ranting. As a consumer I like DVDOs openness even if it leads to broken promises. The 102 will ship sometime in the first half of this year and it will be very, very sweet.

If you've already got a VP30 you shouldn't have to wait for the 102 to get your system ISF'd. The VP30s output levels are essentially perfect. If the 102 changes that it's a bug that we'll all rant about until they fix it.

- Collin

For those disenchanted by a minor schedule slip on the part of DVDO, I hear that there are open spots over on the Algolith Dragonfly list. ;)

--Andre

If you have a dvd player that uses the DCDi deinterlacing chip, such as my Denon 1600, and the equivalent Panasonics, you will most likely get better results outputting 480p from your DVD player to the VP30. I know that is the case with my setup. Once DVDO ships the ABT card, and I get it installed, then Barry's advice to let the VP30 do ALL of the scaling and deinterlacing will be 100% correct.
DCDi is only superior to SiI504 in VP30 for deinterlacing video content, if you're watching film content the SiI504 will be superior and you should output 480i from your DVD player.

StooMonster

Sorry, I left that out. Have edited so I don't confuse anyone. But Stoo - the DCDi is definitely better than the Sil504 for video - I watch a lot of concert videos, and they tend to be horrible with the VP. Lots of guitars = strings (lines); guitars tend to be played with the neck on an angle = diagonals = major jaggies.

I never realized how good the Denon was until I turned off the internal di chip. I only found out because I started thinking too much - figured I spent a lot more for the VP30 than the Denon, so the deinterlacing should be better. And on film, it is; on video, it isn't.

Again, sorry.

My posts regarding DVDO's pushing a ship date back are statements of opinion coupled with frustration. I think it important to note that I have no issue with the value or quality of DVDO's products. Specifically the VP30. The parent coming to the rescue of its child mentality with respect to critisicms of DVDO are to be expected in an open forum comprised of hundreds of satisfied customers. Loyalties run deep and opinions vary, but does that mean my dissatisfaction has no merit. I repeat, I have no issue with the quality of the product. I am thrilled with the performance level of the VP30 and therefore anxiously await the arrival of the ABT102. However, I cannot be the only one who feels let down by the missed dates time and time again.

As for the comment about getting a new hobby, come on. Stating one's dissatisfaction about a missed ship date equates to having no business with this hobby we all enjoy. Please.

Well, what happens if they change it again to late May? Then will people be allowed to show their frustration?

I think about every piece of equipment I purchased during the last 5 years that was related to HD was delayed from the initial release date. Including my HDTV.

Arron is correct. Maybe the real answer is not to be early adopters. We pay an extra penalty in that mode, both in mental anguish and dollars.

I will stack the PQ in my HT against anything I have viewed including my cousins in La La land done by the experts at Paramount studios (He is the head of that org). I think the VP30 has a lot to do with it, and the fact that I get solid digital pathing on almost everything I view contributes very highly.

The $ have been well spent at least for my kids (in their 30s). They are all very happy with all my prior mistakes :D

Arron is correct. Maybe the real answer is not to be early adopters. We pay an extra penalty in that mode, both in mental anguish and dollars.


Yes, but we also reap the benefits, both visually and financially. :p - As you all must have noticed, the early adopter price on the di card is a LOT less than the price folks will be paying, after it is in stock and shipping. Likewise, I'll bet a number of folks here took advantage of the early buy price - I consider it recompense for being a post-production beta tester. :D

@flyingvee: isn't what you said in post #3572 exactly the same as I said in post #3571?

StooMonster

In terms of pulled features, I still think that advertising the VP30 as having nonlinear stretch is a very, very bad idea. That's a false advertising lawsuit waiting to happen guys. You're just getting away with it because you're not large enough to be seen as a target by bottom feeding class action lawyers. Add a "coming soon" caveat or something.

- Collin

I agree with all your points, on the non-linear stuff i personally (and i guess more did) pointed this out many moons ago. Never got a reaction on that one... Seems odd compared to all the other stuff to keep that on the list while its clearly not supported.

Daniel.

@flyingvee: isn't what you said in post #3572 exactly the same as I said in post #3571?

StooMonster

Yes - I was just admitting that you caught me, that while I thought I was saying one thing, I left out the word "video" and you rightly corrected me. I agree. Thank you for catching it, and clarifying for the few who didn't already know whazzup.

Thanks Josh. I feel really stupid. I didn't even realize that my dvd player would play PAL. I use a universal remote and did not even bother to program the NTSC/PAL button.

Well, what happens if they change it again to late May? Then will people be allowed to show their frustration?

Only if you show your enthusiasm when we do ship in early May. :)

Yeah Baby! Is that good enthusiasm?

Josh@dvdo,

Recent posts have again brought up the non-linear stretch feature of the VP30. Can you give us an update as to how progress on this feature is coming? I'm sure their are quite a few of us here on the forum who are interested its release.

Josh@dvdo,

Recent posts have again brought up the non-linear stretch feature of the VP30. Can you give us an update as to how progress on this feature is coming? I'm sure their are quite a few of us here on the forum who are interested its release.

true - not going to be a biggy for me - don't watch SD in the HT room that often, but otoh, if a 1100 dollar Hitachi bigscreen can have it, can it be that hard to implement? (OK Dale, I have NEVER programmed a VP, so I readily admit I don't know) - but is it that big a deal to do?

I would think most people would be happy with "something" - from the programming experience I have, I would guess you could make it a big deal - let the user choose how much stretch, starting where, linear or logrithmic stretching, etc - but shoot - if anyone really wants or needs that much control, let someone make and sell a standalone box to do that.

then again, (and this should be on the wish list thread) - is it possible, or a big deal, to add PIP functions? Lord knows you have enough inputs - but I am guessing that with all the different input ARs, and then scaling and processing, that PIP, or P by P, would be a LOT more work.

Josh@dvdo,

Recent posts have again brought up the non-linear stretch feature of the VP30. Can you give us an update as to how progress on this feature is coming? I'm sure their are quite a few of us here on the forum who are interested its release.

Count me as someone eagerly awaiting non-linear stretch; right from my pre-order purchase of the VP30. And it would be nice if we could get an update on when we might see new firmware with this feature.

Mike

Only if you show your enthusiasm when we do ship in early May. :)I already pre-ordered but may I be sent a beta unit to try out if I create a "Shrine of Josh@dvdo" webpage? ;)

Is anyone using the VP30 with a MX3000? If you are could you send me the file? joerod55@msn.com... Thanks, that would be greatly appreciated! Joe

Is anyone using the VP30 with a MX3000? If you are could you send me the file? joerod55@msn.com... Thanks, that would be greatly appreciated! Joe

I'd love the same thing! joebourbois@gmail.com

Is there a way now or is this feature going to be implemented in the future to add borders on only one side? When I watch HDTV I use 0 borders and everything looks good. When I watch some SDTV I need to add a border to the top since many of these pictures can not handle 0 overscan and give junk at the top of the image. Currently i've only found how to add borders to both the top and bottom and while not a huge deal, i'd like to keep the whole bottom of the picture.

So it seems that not getting 5.1 channel PCM passed through the VP30 is likely a bug in the HD-A1, not the VP30. I was actually hoping it was the VP30 since we are more likely to get a quick firmware fix from DVDO than Toshiba. So I think DVDO is off the hook for this one, I will need to report the problem to Toshiba.
To follow up on the posts about passing 5.1 channel PCM through the VP30 over HDMI. Last night I tried upgrading to my VP30 from firmware 1.0 to 1.06 beta. The good news is that my receiver indicated it was receiving 5.1 channel PCM. The bad news is that I had a loud continuous high pitched tone coming from the speakers. I could hear the audio from the HD DVD DD+ soundtrack, but the tone was louder. I tried shutting down and restarting a few times thinking it might be like the no audio or motor boat noises I occasionally got with 1.0, but the tone was always there.

I submitted the info to DVDO and the response was that they believe this is a bug in the Toshiba HD-A1. This could be true since based on my testing the output of the A1 is pretty bizarre and depends on what is downstream in the HDMI chain.

An odd side effect is that I could no longer pass DD or DTS from my Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player through the VP 30 using HDMI. Now my receiver indicates it is getting 2 channel PCM. This worked fine with 1.0, so I'm going back to it for now.

HDMI. It's not just an interface or a cable, it's an adventure! :D

Once again I want to re-iterate that I'm pretty clueless about audio, but last night I had a pretty bizarre experience. I'm using the VP30 with firmware 1.06 hooked up to a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD through HDMI (but with the audio going through fiber since it has had problems with the HDMI), a Denon 2910 DVD player also hooked up through HDMI (no seperate connection for the audio), a Panasonic SA-XR70 receiver which receives it's output from the VP30 on HDMI, and a Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY with the HDMI blade which receives it's picture from the receiver's output.

I was trying to play a DVD from Netflix entitled "Roger Dodger". For the life of me I could not get audio with any amount of turning on and off of equipment. At first the receiver indicated it was receiving an audio signal, but still no sound.

Then I pulled the power plug on the VP30 and suddenly the sound started working. Too bad I had no picture. Mind you the VP30 was still in the chain at this point, it just had no power. This is as opposed to standby mode where I did not have audio.

I plugged the power back in and, of course, now I'm back to my previous situation of video with no audio. I noticed when turning on and off the DVDO that the HDMI link with the receiver is affected as it would switch from a generic 1080i output to the specific output of the TV channel as soon as I turned on the VP30. This is a little strange because why even negotiate an HDMI link for an input that isn't selected?

I finally just had to pull the VP30 out of the chain to get audio. The receiver, DVD player and TV all play fine together. The cable box should not have even been in the chain so I can only attribute this mess to the VP30 itself.

I love the VP30, but right now sometimes it acts more like a badly broken HDMI switch box than what it is supposed to be.

Is there a way now or is this feature going to be implemented in the future to add borders on only one side? When I watch HDTV I use 0 borders and everything looks good. When I watch some SDTV I need to add a border to the top since many of these pictures can not handle 0 overscan and give junk at the top of the image. Currently i've only found how to add borders to both the top and bottom and while not a huge deal, i'd like to keep the whole bottom of the picture.

I'm just using overscan to do this at the moment but you loose info all round. I'm wondering if there is a combination of small borders and picture shifting that could mostly effect the top?

Not played with these setting much yet, I guess the best bet would be either a top border option or an overscan that just effects the top edge, border seems best as it'd be less damaging to the aspect ratio.

I'd guess this would be easy to add and a very usefull feature for a lot of folks. ;) JOSH?

scarrow,

I have a similar problem with my system, but the only thing I have on HDMI are two SA8300HD DVR's. I run Audio to the VP30 on the HDMI cable. On a total loss of audio (about once or twice a night), I have always been able to recover by a VP30 power cycle. DVDO is aware of the situation.

I take the opposite view with regard to an input device that is not currently selected. Tell it that it is selected and spoof all information to make it happy. In this manner it always sees the same "Display", the display never turns off, and HDCP is always complied with (assuming the real output display is HDCP compliant so there is no License or copyright issues). In fact make it so that the source always thinks it is hard connected to the display, i.e. make the repeater/switcher truly transparent to the source.

I never put my DVR's in standby, but I do put the VP30 in standby when I shut the theater down. Maybe I will stop doing that. I wonder if with the PJ off (actually in standby also) if it (the PJ) sends HDCP compliance info over a HDMI/DVI cable

I have also seen, on extensive switching between the two DVR's, one or both DVR's getting totally confused (I know, a human not machine trait, but descriptive) and re-booting. Of course only while recording something I am interested in.

....An odd side effect is that I could no longer pass DD or DTS from my Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player through the VP 30 using HDMI. Now my receiver indicates it is getting 2 channel PCM. This worked fine with 1.0, so I'm going back to it for now.....

I think aaronwt reported this too, that any firmware above 1.0 won't pass 5.1 via hdmi. it's what's keeping me from upgrading my firmware. there are clearly still problems with the VP30 audio so I don't see how they can blame the HD-A1 for problems, especially since they still don't have an A1 or XA1 to test out (at least they haven't said anything about getting one since saying they were looking to get one).

It wouldn't pass 5.1 on my Sony 975 DVD player. 1.07? worked fine with my HDTiVos pasing DD 5.1 over HDMI. Once I get the ABT102 I'm going to have to just connect the Sony and the Toshiba A1 with an optical/coaxial cable.

I won't lend them my XA1 for testing purposes... Is 1.07 out yet?

I believe it is in limited Beta.

I do a lot of testing for other manufacturers. I am surprised I have never done any for DVDO. Not to brag but even Toshiba has sent me my own personal HD Demo disc to help sell their players. I am at 6 and counting! I have also helped sell a few VP30s as well...

I wasn't sure which version I last used since I tried several. maybe it was v1.06. I am using v1.00 right now, but as soon as the ABT102 is released I will upgrade to the firmware that supports it.

So aaron there really is not any major differences in these firmwares?

I couldn't tell you what the differences are but I guess they are in the release notes. When I installed the firmwares I only tried each component for a few minutes since none of them worked with all my components. After v1.00 my Sony stopped sending dd5.1 over HDMI. One version caused it to stop sending any audio. One version My HDTiVos stopped sending audio. I know the last one I tried It seemed to be quicker at locking on to the HDMI signal and it worked with my HDTiVos. I think they will get things ironed out eventually but I guess different devices act differently to HDMI depending on how the manufacturer designed it. Some work correctly and some don't.

Thanks!

I just found a problem with the VP30.
I have a Denon 2910 and an HD-A1 HDMI to VP30. If I watch an HD movie, then switch to 2910 for a movie sound gets completely corrupted (cracks like in an improperly decoded Dolby). Standby/Power on is not sufficient on the VP30. I thought I changed things by mistake. Removing power and back from the VP30 fixes the problem!

I just found a problem with the VP30.
I have a Denon 2910 and an HD-A1 HDMI to VP30. If I watch an HD movie, then switch to 2910 for a movie sound gets completely corrupted (cracks like in an improperly decoded Dolby). Standby/Power on is not sufficient on the VP30. I thought I changed things by mistake. Removing power and back from the VP30 fixes the problem!


same problem here, it comes from switching between PCM and Dolby/DTS, when I play a PCM program, like a concert DVD, and then go to a movie with Dolby Digital, I don't get the Dolby until switching inputs and back again, kinda like the PCM corrupts the VP30, Up until a few weeks back, PCM wouldn't even play thru the VP30

-Gary

I vaguely remember a past conversation thatthe VP-30 uses 2 inputs per HDMI chip. The new Toshiba seems to be having its own problems with or without the VP-30 and may temporarily corrupt the chip until reset.

For giggles(not very scientific) try seperating the devices by using HDMI 1&3 or 2&4.

You may be better using component from the 2910 (set at 480i) rather than HDMI anyway. This allows the VP-30 to do the deinterlacing. The 2910 does not do 480i over HDMI. I prefer the picture this way

It wouldn't pass 5.1 on my Sony 975 DVD player. 1.07? worked fine with my HDTiVos pasing DD 5.1 over HDMI. Once I get the ABT102 I'm going to have to just connect the Sony and the Toshiba A1 with an optical/coaxial cable.
Interesting. I did some more testing with my only other HDMI source, a JVC HM-DH5U D-VHS deck. The VP30 will pass DD and DTS from this source with 1.06, but from the Sony 975 I still get 2 channel PCM. So maybe it really is a problem with sources such as the 975 and the HD-A1. The VP30 is telling the HDMI sources that it is a repeater, and the sources are doing something bizarre with the audio instead of sending out what the downstream receiver says it can accept.

If this is true I don't have much hope that Sony will fix the 975, I don't think they are doing any more firmware upgrades on it. There may be hope to get the A1 fixed if anyone can penetrate the front line Toshiba support and get the info to someone who cares.

Anyway, I've reverted back to 1.0 as well for now. Now that I'm setup to do the firmware upgrades it's pretty painless. I will try 1.07 beta when it comes out.

Good evening,
Been lurking in this forum for some time and I finally have a reason to post. Got my VP30 some time ago and I'm very happy with it for the most part. The info on this site has helped me fix or avoid a number of issues so thanks to you all.

Last weekend I upgraded the software from 1.0 to 1.6 and it seems I have a problem I can't get around. I use HDMI from a DirecTv H10 to the VP30 and on 1.6 I can't keep the 'curtain' open. Closes on me every time after giving me a brief look at a show. I hit the 'curtain' button and it has only opened once and stayed open. I switched to component tonight and have no problems except the picture quality is not as good. 1.0 did not have the HDMI problem on my setup.

Anyone got any ideas? I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

Jstears - What kind of output are you using from the VP30?

One thing that you can try is setting the HDCP mode to 'Off'
Input Adjust -> HDMI Config -> HDMI Mode -> Off

Josh,

I use HDMI to the TV. I tried HDMI mode off with no luck. For a few days after I updated the software, everything worked great. A couple of days ago, the curtain closed.

Thanks for your reply.

Beta software version 1.07 is now available on our website:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

Thanks Josh! :)

I tried my VP30 today for the first time (had it in a box since it came out) with a NEC XR4 -

I used a Yamaha middle to low end DVD player (657 or something) with a PAL DVD (Master & Commander & Finding Nemo), the DVD player was outputing 576i via component.

The NEC is supposed to have a great internal scaler, but even just sending 720p @ 60hz from the DVDO the image was amazingly better, with so much more depth & detail ... we tried connecting the dvd directly to the NEC .... it looked greyed out and fruzzy in comparisson ....

Also worthy to note is that the VP30 was also doing the frame rate conversion from 50hz (dvd) to 60hz at the panel ... the NEC does prefer to receive 60hz.....

I didn't have a chance to work on the 1:1 mapping, but even tring 720p @ 50hz, which sould be an accepted resolution for the NEC, it didn't show anything.... I could only get a sync sending the signals at 60hz... I believe this to be an NEC plasma issue ....

didn't have enough time to test anything else... I'm just trying to choose the right plasma for my DVDO and I'm using it at a local hifi shop that I know the owner and connecting to different displays to see the results.....

I briefly set up the DVDO with the Fujitsu 50", the HItachi 55", the NEC xr4 42" and the sharp aquos 37" (SD model) ....

the fuji improved, but not amazingly so

the hitachi looked very, very film like and more 3dish

the sharp improved, but the picture still had nothing on the plasmas

the NEC looked very good before, but with the scaler it looked really, really 3D and detailed.. it seriously impressed the shop owner, who is now thinking of buying a VP30 to use at home on his Hitachi 55" .....

Love it! First time I had a chance to play with my VP30 ... months after receiving it!!!!! :)

Downloaded 1.07 and will give it a shot first thing in the morning... I am getting tired and after rehooking the VP30 back into my setup I will definitely need some sleep. Thanks again Josh for your late post letting us know 1.07 is available...

OK - downloaded 1.07 this morning with high levels of anticipation, but unfortunately, it has exactly the same audio problem for me. This is that when the a connected device is switched off, the VP30 briefly outputs a PCM 96Khz signal. Unfortunately, this throws Denon amps into a bit of a fit and switches them into Direct audio mode (which is MUCH louder than PCII or DD). This seems to happen even if the device which is switched off isn't the active devide as far as the VP30 is concerned. e.g. if I switch to another input (e.g. HDMI) on the VP30 before turning off another device (e.g. the XBOX360) it still causes the VP30 to send a 96Khz signal to the denon amp. This only happens if there's no signal on that input (e.g. if the HDMI isn't connected).

So, it's roughly that when any device which is connected to the VP30 is swtiched off, if the VP30 doesn't have a valid signal to output then it outputs an 96Khz PCM signal, which throws a denon amp into an uphappy state.

So far so good. I've reconnected all my sources and audio via the VP30 and so far I've been able to switch between them without loosing the sound. :D

Cable RGBs + Stereo
DVD DVI + Coax (DD)
DVD Comp + Coax (DD)
HDMB HDMI + HDMI (DD)

I'll try some other sources (Svid, PCM etc) and see if it holds up. ;)

Thanks DVDO! And thanks Josh for taking my surgestion to put up 1.07 this weekend! (I'm sure you were going to do it anyway :D )

Pete, my Amp (Yamaha Z9) also shows PCM 96Khz or just 96Khz from the VP30 when a source is switched off. However it doesn't seem to bother the Amp at all, luckly.

Hello All,

I am new to the forum, but not to other forums. My question to you is that I noticed 90% of the problems stem from integrating audio in to the VP30. I have a Lexicon 12b processor and was just going to run the audio direct to the lexicon.

for the Video portion I have an Ayre D1XE transport that has component. 2 Satellite Dishes with S-video and finally a Panasonic Plasma 50 inch with HDMI input.

Keeping it simple with just 2 s-video inputs and 1 component input to only one hdmi output do you think I will run in to problems. I have a VP30 coming this week.

My audio is running also to Mark Levinson Preamps and Dacs and Krell Amps so I don't know whether or not it would benefit running the satellite audio feeds thru the vp30 first or not.

You should be fine. I haven't had any video problems and the only audio problems I've had is with the audio over HDMI which is most likely a problem with those devices and HDMI. I've haven't had any problems with the audio fed into the VP30 over optical/coaxial.

I have a lexicon MC-1 and still chose to run the audio through the VP30. I wanted the high precision lip sync.

I am on 1.07 and last night I switched the audio to be picked up on the Optical inputs instead of the HDMI cables. I did this because I would sometimes loose audio when skipping commercials in the SA8300HD DVR on prerecorded stuff (Skipping commercials in my world is moving fast forward, overshooting, backing up overshooting ...). It also sometimes happened when switching between two DVR's bith on HDMI. I would then have to get out of my chair to power cycle the VP30. That is an unforgivable sin in my house, no piece of gear is allowed to cause me to leave the couch. I took an oath...

I switched the audio inputs to the opticals for the HDMI inputs (I had put back the cables that morning) and so far have not lost the audio.

Beta software version 1.07 is now available on our website:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

Is there someplace to get 1.00? I'd like to try 1.07, but I don't want to do it if I can't go back to 1.00.

misterdoggy: You should have no problems. I run with three inputs and two outputs have great looking video.
Inputs: VHS on composite, DVD on component, HDTV in via component
Output: HDMI TV, Analog Video to projector.

I'd use HDMI inputs, but that kind of rules out my older projector without even more devices in line.
Heck I didn't know a Wiggles VHS tape could look that good. :)

I have just upgraded the firmware to 1.07 and tested by changing channels on my Satellite box between a channel with a PCM sound source to Dolby Digital/DTS station and to my dismay found that I still get a very brief, short crackly sound for a split second, like it wants to destroy the tweeter in my expensive speakers. Going from Dolby Digital to PCM does not display this characteristic - only from PCM to DD. The sat box is connected via component to Vp30 with digital audio run thru coax and then coax to reciever . I really thought this would have been fixed by now. :(
Also tested Dvd playback(Arcam DV29) which is connected via HDMI to VP30 and then HDMI to screen for video and digital coax for sound to reciever. I have not yet tested long term but so far have not had any audio or video dropouts :) .What I did notice is that I still get problems with the handshake (plug'n'play) between my player and the VP30. The VP changes my Dvd players settings by re-enabling Progressive Scan on its own . The HDMI compliance of the DVD player can be partially disabled so it can be manually set to co-exist with unstable Hdmi components such as the VP30. By changing the "Output Priority' setting in the Video Setup page of my DVD player from HDMI to Analogue I was able to stop it renabling Progressive Scan.
This handshake problem was not present in the initial v1.00 release firmware but exists on every one that has been released since !!
I will report these issues in the Beta reponse program and hopefully get an answer !

Does anyone know if you lose all your settings flashing from 1.05 to 1.07?

Is there someplace to get 1.00? I'd like to try 1.07, but I don't want to do it if I can't go back to 1.00.
I still have 1.00 with the 1080i fix that someone posted in this thread a long time ago. I never verified it; my first flash was 1.06. PM me if you're still interested.

Hi Mark

Wow VHS.....

So it will do wonders with a good DVD transport. I will be going component in from a 480p transport to hdmi input on a French 50 inch plasma th-50pv500e.

This is 50hz here 230V

I have a couple of questions even before receiving my VP 30 (I like to do my homework first)

1. I read another thread here where everybody is talking about "blades and NR's" and was wondering if I need a special type of hdmi plug or the one the guy who sold me the vp30 is supplying should be good enough ($80)

2. When setting up the VP30 is it pretty straightfoward and you can chose "standards" that are presets or do you have to do a lot of figuring out with pixels 1:1 ratios. I have no experience in this realm and it sounds scarey.

3. Lastly, what advantage would it be to interrupt the signal from the Ayre D1XE ($10000 transport) that sends the digital signal via balanced XLR cable, and reroute it through the vp30 just for the lipsync. Will there be so much of a delay between image and sound. The Lexicon 12B I think has a delay as well. As a purist, its always best to simplify your connections.

4. Last = Is it better to have the signal come to the Panasonic plasma with HDMI or Component or it doesn't make a difference

thanks :)

I just loaded V1.07 hoping that I would get HDMI audio from my Sony NS975V DVD player again (something that worked in V1.00 but has not worked at any other version of the firmware). No luck, I tried all audio output options on the Sony to no effect. The only connection that works is an optical audio connection to the VP30 (or my receiver).

Does anyone know if you lose all your settings flashing from 1.05 to 1.07?I lost all settings when going from 1.06 to 1.07 so I recommend writing down your settings before flashing.

1.07 seems to work pretty nicely. Audio recognition is now as fast as it's supposed to be and hadn't had any problems. Power led still stays lit a while after a button is pressed. Now if we just would get the ABT102...

At DVDO's website it warns you to write down your settings because all settings are lost when you perform the firmware change...

Anyway, I've reverted back to 1.0 as well for now. Now that I'm setup to do the firmware upgrades it's pretty painless. I will try 1.07 beta when it comes out.
I tried the beta 1.07 firmware, but the audio results are pretty much the same as what I got from 1.06. I still get the high pitched tone on 5.1 channel PCM and can only get 2 channel PCM out of my Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player. I have 3 HDMI sources and tried them all. The results are below.

As you can see, the VP30 doesn't seem to have trouble passing DD and DTS over HDMI if that is what is being sent, so there must be something wrong with the Sony that is causing it to output 2 channel PCM when it is connected to the VP30. I checked and I have firmware 2.01 which I think was the last update they provided. I plan to report this to Sony and other owners should as well, but I don't have much hope they will fix it. Plus a firmware upgrade would require shipping to a service center and if it isn't still under warranty would likely cost more than it's worth. I'm hoping that DVDO can provide some type of HDMI input setting to chose the 1.0 behavior if desired, but don't know if that's possible.

----------------------------------
Sony DVP-NS975V (HDMI 1)
DVD with DD or DTS -> 2 ch PCM

----------------------------------
JVC HM-DH5U (HDMI 2)
D-Theater with DD or DTS -> DD or DTS

----------------------------------
Toshiba HD-A1 (HDMI 3)
for 3 different HDMI output menu options

HD DVD with DD+ soundtrack
Auto -> 2 ch PCM but only left and right channel from 5.1, not remixed
Bitstream -> 2 ch PCM but includes sound from all channels mixed
PCM -> 5.1 ch PCM with continuous high pitched tone overlayed on audio

DVD with DD or DTS soundtrack
Auto -> DD or DTS
Bitstream -> DD or DTS
PCM -> 5.1 ch PCM with continuous high pitched tone overlayed on audio

Good info Jschefdog... Thanks...

I tried the beta 1.07 firmware, but the audio results are pretty much the same as what I got from 1.06. I still get the high pitched tone on 5.1 channel PCM and can only get 2 channel PCM out of my Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player. I have 3 HDMI sources and tried them all. The results are below.

As you can see, the VP30 doesn't seem to have trouble passing DD and DTS over HDMI if that is what is being sent, so there must be something wrong with the Sony that is causing it to output 2 channel PCM when it is connected to the VP30. I checked and I have firmware 2.01 which I think was the last update they provided. I plan to report this to Sony and other owners should as well, but I don't have much hope they will fix it. Plus a firmware upgrade would require shipping to a service center and if it isn't still under warranty would likely cost more than it's worth. I'm hoping that DVDO can provide some type of HDMI input setting to chose the 1.0 behavior if desired, but don't know if that's possible.

----------------------------------
Sony DVP-NS975V (HDMI 1)
DVD with DD or DTS -> 2 ch PCM

----------------------------------
JVC HM-DH5U (HDMI 2)
D-Theater with DD or DTS -> DD or DTS

----------------------------------
Toshiba HD-A1 (HDMI 3)
for 3 different HDMI output menu options

HD DVD with DD+ soundtrack
Auto -> 2 ch PCM but only left and right channel from 5.1, not remixed
Bitstream -> 2 ch PCM but includes sound from all channels mixed
PCM -> 5.1 ch PCM with continuous high pitched tone overlayed on audio

DVD with DD or DTS soundtrack
Auto -> DD or DTS
Bitstream -> DD or DTS
PCM -> 5.1 ch PCM with continuous high pitched tone overlayed on audio

This is why I will be connecting my Sony 975 with the optical/coaxial when I get the ABT102. I probably won't use it much any more anyway since after watching HD DVDs I have very little desire to watch SD DVDs.

V1.07 worked fine with both my HDTiVos with sending DD 5.1 over HDMI to the VP30. And it seemed quicker in locking on to the video signal.

For my HD-A1 I plan on getting a new receiver for the short term so I can input the higher quality PCm multichannel sound directly to the receiver. The VP30 already works fine with the video so hopefully I won't have any problems with sending the audio/video over HDMI to the Denon 2807 and then sending video to the VP30 over HDMI and then to the HDTV.

Hi Mark

Wow VHS.....

So it will do wonders with a good DVD transport. I will be going component in from a 480p transport to hdmi input on a French 50 inch plasma th-50pv500e.

This is 50hz here 230V

I have a couple of questions even before receiving my VP 30 (I like to do my homework first)

1. I read another thread here where everybody is talking about "blades and NR's" and was wondering if I need a special type of hdmi plug or the one the guy who sold me the vp30 is supplying should be good enough ($80)

2. When setting up the VP30 is it pretty straightfoward and you can chose "standards" that are presets or do you have to do a lot of figuring out with pixels 1:1 ratios. I have no experience in this realm and it sounds scarey.

3. Lastly, what advantage would it be to interrupt the signal from the Ayre D1XE ($10000 transport) that sends the digital signal via balanced XLR cable, and reroute it through the vp30 just for the lipsync. Will there be so much of a delay between image and sound. The Lexicon 12B I think has a delay as well. As a purist, its always best to simplify your connections.

4. Last = Is it better to have the signal come to the Panasonic plasma with HDMI or Component or it doesn't make a difference

thanks :)


Hi there,

1) yes, however I think most people can only get NR on the panasonic via using the DVI blade, not the HDMI blade. And NR on the panasonic ommercial (through digital connections) is only available @ 60hz.... - the DVDO does a great job a changing the framerate from 50hz to 60hz .... you may not even notice any judder....

2) 720p & 1080i are easy, however some monitors need tweeking on the vertical & horizontal sync, polarity, etc. to get 1:1 ... I suggest you go thourgh the 'Panasonic and DVDO VP30 1:1" thread, they have posted some timings and details which should save you a lot of time to get 1:1. 720p should still look pretty good if you want to spend more time setting up later and enjoy the VP30 now...

3) I wish I had a 10k transport.....

4) its best to try and see both HDMI and Component - however I believe that through HDMI (the HDMI blade) you will not get 1:1 ..... you will get 1:1 on digital via the DVI blade @ 60hz and using analogue connection you should get 1:1 at 50hz and 60hz ......

Hope this helps

Cheers,

Marcelo

This is why I will be connecting my Sony 975 with the optical/coaxial when I get the ABT102.
That's what I have done as well. I was thinking about reverting to 1.0 and what I would do when I got the ABT102 and had one of those "Well Duh!" moments when I realized that a SPDIF connection would probably work fine. I connected coax from the 975 to digital input 3 on the VP30, changed the audio input for HDMI 1, and sure enough I'm getting DD and DTS from the VP30's HDMI output into my receiver. This is a workaround I can live with since I can still use the VP30 for all the source switching. Now if we could just get the 5.1 channel PCM over HDMI working I could switch the HD-A1 as well. I sent an Email to Toshiba support about the issue. If I get a reply I will post it here.

fwiw, I have installed v1.07 - the muting of sound when switching inputs it gone - now sound switches, with the video. NICE - this is how it is supposed to be. Definite improvement with my gear.

otoh, after flash, all settings are lost (as we know- ) and the VP30 takes quite a while to "find" my computer and my old Samsung 165 STB. Maybe it is the age of the STB, or the fact that it is connected via DVI into the VP30's HDMI input (audio via toslink to VP30), but I had to connect to two different HDMI inputs before the VP30 finally recognized the Sammy. As before, once the Sammy is "found" everything is fine from then on. Computer into RGBHV is even more bizarre - finally had to input signal from Sammy's RGB output into the VP30's RGB. That "woke up" the VP30 - then did a disconnnect, hooked computer to VP30, and has been fine ever since.

So - now it all works, but I can see newbies, and those who aren't persistent getting very frustrated trying to get the thing initially setup. (the hassle of getting my gear to work pretty much keeps me from upgrading versions regularly.) Tho, this time it seems to work - have only had one dropout, and that occured when I turned on my Sammy STB while watching a dvd. Hasn't happened since. (what's the icon for crossed fingers?)

...
For my HD-A1 I plan on getting a new receiver for the short term so I can input the higher quality PCm multichannel sound directly to the receiver. The VP30 already works fine with the video so hopefully I won't have any problems with sending the audio/video over HDMI to the Denon 2807 and then sending video to the VP30 over HDMI and then to the HDTV.

How did 1.07 do with your HD-A1 hdmi? were you still getting DD 5.1 from the hdmi of the A1 like you did with 1.0?

hopefully I won't have any problems with sending the audio/video over HDMI to the Denon 2807 and then sending video to the VP30 over HDMI and then to the HDTV.

Just a thought: could some of these audio problems be somehow related to the Denon receiver ? I read somewhere else when the DVDO gives out a 96kHZ PCM another Denon receiver just hangs. And some one else reported a Yamaha receiver also received the 96khz PCM but didn't get bothered. That "split-second" high pitch sound looks somehow like a "receiving buffer" kind of thing.

(I'm using a Pio receiver and I have never encountered any high pitch hiccups so far. Switching source takes like half a second. I got silent within that half second, not high pitch tone.)

How did 1.07 do with your HD-A1 hdmi? were you still getting DD 5.1 from the hdmi of the A1 like you did with 1.0?

The Toshiba HD-A1 player will try to pass 96khz pcm in stereo but then the other channels are missing. It won't even pass the downmixed multichannel DTS over the HDMI.

Just a thought: could some of these audio problems be somehow related to the Denon receiver ? I read somewhere else when the DVDO gives out a 96kHZ PCM another Denon receiver just hangs. And some one else reported a Yamaha receiver also received the 96khz PCM but didn't get bothered. That "split-second" high pitch sound looks somehow like a "receiving buffer" kind of thing.

(I'm using a Pio receiver and I have never encountered any high pitch hiccups so far. Switching source takes like half a second. I got silent within that half second, not high pitch tone.)

My receiver didn't hang. I'm using the optical input so there is no two way communication with the VP30. It will only play what it receibves from the VP30. I will get the 96Khz stereo signal just fine but the other channels are missing. I've decided to just get the 2807 for the short term to mate with the A1. I just hope it sounds decent compared to the 3805.

For everything I use it for in my setup the newer firmware 1.07 works nicely. Quicker input switches helps quite a bit. The audio for my DirecTv H20 is perfect. No dropouts! And it is nice not worrying about lip sync. And as usual the picture quality is fantastic. Just can't wait to try the 102 card... :)

C722 is on to something.

I am bypassing the VP30 & connecting my DirecTV HD DVR optical output directly to my receiver. Changing channels, there were a lot of low frequency sound spikes. Perhaps this DVR, & many others apparently, have a poorly designed buffer. I am not sure if there is a momentary lapse in the signal, or if it remains active, only there is some kind of high frequency spike.

My old Time Warner HD box never gave me a problem,but I was able to use a digital coaxial connection. I always prefer coaxial & am wondering other peoples' experience. Is anybody else only having problems when changing TV channels using optical?

It is worth checking your frequency settings for all your speakers on the surround receiver, especially if using in-wall speakers. When you change television channels & there is a high frequency signal sent, speakers that cannot handle the signals will send that bass information to the fronts (or subwoofer depending on your configuration.) Managing the crossovers has significantly decreased the frequency (no pun intended) of my sound spikes.

There are a ton of people that use DirecTV inside high end home theaters. Now that customers are leasing equipment directly, there is only going to be one current HD DVR model. My point is that I hope CEDIA puts pressure on them to redesign the box. Address the sound issues, coaxial output, RS-232 port, etc..

Hi there,

1) yes, however I think most people can only get NR on the panasonic via using the DVI blade, not the HDMI blade. And NR on the panasonic ommercial (through digital connections) is only available @ 60hz.... - the DVDO does a great job a changing the framerate from 50hz to 60hz .... you may not even notice any judder....

2) 720p & 1080i are easy, however some monitors need tweeking on the vertical & horizontal sync, polarity, etc. to get 1:1 ... I suggest you go thourgh the 'Panasonic and DVDO VP30 1:1" thread, they have posted some timings and details which should save you a lot of time to get 1:1. 720p should still look pretty good if you want to spend more time setting up later and enjoy the VP30 now...

3) I wish I had a 10k transport.....

4) its best to try and see both HDMI and Component - however I believe that through HDMI (the HDMI blade) you will not get 1:1 ..... you will get 1:1 on digital via the DVI blade @ 60hz and using analogue connection you should get 1:1 at 50hz and 60hz ......

Hope this helps

Cheers,

Marcelo

Marcello

Thanks for answering my question.

What is NR ?

My DVDO dealer says I should just go component to the Panasonic, go in to setup and choose 1366x768 for definition and Since I have no choice 480p for input.

Component seems to pose less problems than hdmi. Since I don't care about sound I won't be using the sound lipsync and just use the mc12b direct for sound. HDMI is not offered on my DVD player ONLY component so Component throughtout.

You said analog @ 50hz would produce 1:1 so why not use component then, why doesn't everyone use component if its easier to get 1:1 ?

DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A TH-50PV500E French and German 50" Plasma ?? with a DVDO ?

Sorry to be so stupid, I am well versed in the Audio Realm, but this is a whole new can of worms, much more problematic.

I couldn't find that thread with specs and I think it might only concern American model Panasonics. can you post or send me a pm witht the url thanks :)

Lexicon MC12BV5 - Processor
Mark Levinson 380S - Preamp
Mark Levinson 360S - DAC
Krell FPB400CX - 2 x400A watts
Krell KAV3250 - 3x 250w
Ayre D1XE - DVD/CD transport
B&W 802D's
B&W 804S'
B&W HTM2D
B&W ASW 825
Shunyata HYDRA 6 - line conditioner
Furman 1215 - voltage regulator
Panasonic th 50 inch Plasma Viera
DVDO VP30 VP

I think my dream of connecting every component via HDMI is on hold for now. I am outputting HDMI from the VP-30 to a Denon AVR-2807 then HDMI to my display- JVC LCOS. The added HDMI connection with the receiver complicates holding a lock on HDMI when switching devices or even HD to SD on cable DVR. No real problems-just annoying.

Also my input devices have their own reasons not to go HDMI not related to VP-30

Dish VIP211-will not pass DD5.1 over HDMI (low on their fix priority list)

Denon DVR2910-works fine on HDMI but 480i only on component. I prefer the VP-30 doing the deinterlacing.

Motorola DCT6412 cable DVR-has audio drop outs on pause to play transitions-from the beginning this device has caused me the most problems and DVDO has done an excellent job in attemting to cover up its shortcomings

JVC 5U DVHS- works fine.

FYI- I am using 1.07 and have never had any problems on digital audio connections

Run everything to the VP30 FIRST for HDMI audio/video and then send the video over HDMI to the TV. Use an optical/coaxial cable to go to the receiver for audio from the VP30.
This is how I have my HDMI components setup.
My only exception will be the HD-A1. When I get my 2807 I will send the A1 to that first so I can get the HDMI 96Khz pcm audio then I will send the HDMI video to the VP30.
Any device that won't send the audio properly over HDMI, just use an optical/coaxial connection to the VP30 for audio for those devices.

That is how I had it until I bought the new receiver. I also keep optical/coax connections as well as HDMI so if I lose audio I can just switch.

I have been sticking with total HDMI as a stubborn fantasy. Maybe as more devices become compatable with each other.

I like your solution on the A1. I haven't thought about it because I am waiting but I may try that with the cable DVR although thats for info only since optical is easier and already connected.

I may may switch back to the optical feed to receiver today though.

Josh,

I upgraded to 1.07 yesterday and it seems to have solved my HDMI 'curtain' problem. Sound is great, PQ is very good, but it seems to me colors are more...intense (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). There may be a little more macro blocking in SD, but without a side-by-side comparison I can't be sure of that and if there is it could be related to the code for the new card I suppose.

Thanks for 1.07

I was wondering to if it seemed the colors were bolder. Not a bad thing at all of course. Hopefully they can ship the new card sometime soon...

Where can one go to find the Specs to set a European model Panasonic th-50pv500e Plasma for optimum settings ? Anyone know ?

Beta software version 1.07 is now available on our website:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.phpWill we have to use the Beta 1.07 with the ABT102D-card, or will version 1.07 be out of beta by the time the card is shipped?

Don't really like to use Beta software unless I don't have a choice. :rolleyes:

Paul

Hi, After playing around with the VP30 awhile, i seem to notice the FPD works in a different way than was the case with HD+. Example: When a switch is made to another input -say Comp1 to Comp2- the HD+ briefly displays the new input on the FPD. Handy, especially when the switch is due to the AUTO setting for input. Also, with HD+, when switching manually the FPD confims your selection. The VP30 FPD stays always off. At other moments i also get no confirmation from the FPD (i.e. IAR preset 4:3 of 16:9). It this intentionally? If so, do you guys prefer the "very often off" mode of the FPD with VP30, or more the HD+ like method?

Holy crap, killer dots strike back! V1.07 brought up this problem I previously had with HD+ with it's latest firmware. So far it's visible only when RGBHV input is selected but then with some of the scalers test patterns also! I haven't seen it with other inputs, at least not yet. V1.06 definately didn't have this problem. Here's a poor sample video taken from scalers test pattern, look closely for blinking white dots:

http://people.cc.jyu.fi/~jajuhyvo/VP30/dots.avi

Anybody else having same kind of problems?

I just ordered the ABT102 expansion board - will I automatically get upgraded firmware (to 1.07?) when I plug it in?

I haven't had any problems with my unit, but I haven't really excercised all the functions of the unit either.

Marcello

Thanks for answering my question.

What is NR ?

My DVDO dealer says I should just go component to the Panasonic, go in to setup and choose 1366x768 for definition and Since I have no choice 480p for input.

Component seems to pose less problems than hdmi. Since I don't care about sound I won't be using the sound lipsync and just use the mc12b direct for sound. HDMI is not offered on my DVD player ONLY component so Component throughtout.

You said analog @ 50hz would produce 1:1 so why not use component then, why doesn't everyone use component if its easier to get 1:1 ?

DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A TH-50PV500E French and German 50" Plasma ?? with a DVDO ?

Sorry to be so stupid, I am well versed in the Audio Realm, but this is a whole new can of worms, much more problematic.

I couldn't find that thread with specs and I think it might only concern American model Panasonics. can you post or send me a pm witht the url thanks :)

Lexicon MC12BV5 - Processor
Mark Levinson 380S - Preamp
Mark Levinson 360S - DAC
Krell FPB400CX - 2 x400A watts
Krell KAV3250 - 3x 250w
Ayre D1XE - DVD/CD transport
B&W 802D's
B&W 804S'
B&W HTM2D
B&W ASW 825
Shunyata HYDRA 6 - line conditioner
Furman 1215 - voltage regulator
Panasonic th 50 inch Plasma Viera
DVDO VP30 VP

Hey MR. Doggy,

Have a look at this post from Australia, regarding matching the VP30 to a panasonic 50" DBA Forum Australia (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=27981&view=findpost&p=395793) on a 50hz environment.

NR is Native Rate or 1:1 mapping.

As the thread above mentions, on the panasonic, most owners either use the DVI blade or the BNC RGBHV input, as it gives pretty similar quality pictures. The DVI has HDCP, so if you have any HDCP sources the DVI input would be favourable.

NOw, looking at your panasonic model, the Viera, I believe that is the consumer model, and you probably don't have a DVI port - thus your component input would be your best choice for 1:1 mapping at 50hz.

Here is the link to the AVS forum's DVDO 1:1 mapping to the Panasonic Plasma Panny 1:1 mapping using Scalers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638211)

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Marcelo

Well let's hope they ship the 102 card very shortly... Then we will know more...

Just a thought: could some of these audio problems be somehow related to the Denon receiver ? I read somewhere else when the DVDO gives out a 96kHZ PCM another Denon receiver just hangs. And some one else reported a Yamaha receiver also received the 96khz PCM but didn't get bothered. That "split-second" high pitch sound looks somehow like a "receiving buffer" kind of thing.
My Arcam FMJ AV8 receiver reports this problem in a message on the LCD, says something like "96KHz PCM can only be decoded as Digital Stereo", but it doesn't crash or have any issues. This happens especially when you press 'Standby' for power on the VP30. Appears that Denons are sensitive to this, but that doesn't address the issue.

StooMonster

My Arcam FMJ AV8 receiver reports this problem in a message on the LCD, says something like "96KHz PCM can only be decoded as Digital Stereo", but it doesn't crash or have any issues. This happens especially when you press 'Standby' for power on the VP30. Appears that Denons are sensitive to this, but that doesn't address the issue.
That's a strange message. PCM does not need to be "decoded", it just needs to be converted to analog and amplified for playback. The word decoded is usually used to describe converting "encoded" audio such as DD and DTS to PCM.

My Arcam FMJ AV8 receiver reports this problem in a message on the LCD, says something like "96KHz PCM can only be decoded as Digital Stereo", but it doesn't crash or have any issues. This happens especially when you press 'Standby' for power on the VP30. Appears that Denons are sensitive to this, but that doesn't address the issue.

StooMonster

Thanks for sharing. It seems to suggest this: the VP does send out a 96khz PCM 'something", and this "something" does have issues with some Denon receivers, although some Yamaha/Pioneer/Arcam receivers simply ignore it (by "muting" for that split second ?)

btw I was referring to those strange noise when ppl switch channel/input and/or switch DD from/to plain PCM with the VP30.

Hey MR. Doggy,

Have a look at this post from Australia, regarding matching the VP30 to a panasonic 50" Forum Australia on a 50hz environment.

NR is Native Rate or 1:1 mapping.

As the thread above mentions, on the panasonic, most owners either use the DVI blade or the BNC RGBHV input, as it gives pretty similar quality pictures. The DVI has HDCP, so if you have any HDCP sources the DVI input would be favourable.

NOw, looking at your panasonic model, the Viera, I believe that is the consumer model, and you probably don't have a DVI port - thus your component input would be your best choice for 1:1 mapping at 50hz.

Here is the link to the AVS forum's DVDO 1:1 mapping to the Panasonic Plasma 1:1 mapping using Scalers

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Marcelo

Marcello,

I do not have a DVI port and am planning to use the Component out.

Is the 5 bnc RGBHV the same as component if you use only the 3 color like component or is it different. Otherwise how do you go component out of the VP30

I looked on the Aussie Link and reda thru all 31 pages but no mention of Panasonic. Lots of Fuji and 1 or 2 others.

I found something posted by Joe Murphy Jr with posts of different seting that worked on a similar Panny using hdmi. Since I'll be using Component don't the settings change ?

If you've got a link direct to Panny settings that would be great

thanks Misterdoggy

I just ordered the ABT102 expansion board - will I automatically get upgraded firmware (to 1.07?) when I plug it in?

I haven't had any problems with my unit, but I haven't really excercised all the functions of the unit either.

doubt it, you will have to upgrade it yourself with a version they supply on the dvd or website i bet. It will be version 1.0.7 or higher.

Daniel.

Thanks for sharing. It seems to suggest this: the VP does send out a 96khz PCM 'something", and this "something" does have issues with some Denon receivers, although some Yamaha/Pioneer/Arcam receivers simply ignore it (by "muting" for that split second ?)

btw I was referring to those strange noise when ppl switch channel/input and/or switch DD from/to plain PCM with the VP30.

I've been reporting problems with my Denon receiver since version 1.0, but without any joy so far. The situation seems to be as follows ....

When you switch off any device connected to the VP30 (even if it isn't the current device), the VP30 outputs a brief 96Khz PCM signal unless it has another valid signal to output. So, if you're output audio connected to Comp1 (for example), and you turn off a device connected to Comp2 then all's well. However, if your device on Comp1 was also turned off, you get the signal. Also, of course, if you turn off a device when it's the current device, the VP30 has nothing to output and then also sends out the nasty signal.

The problem with Denons is that his PCM signal tells them to do into a "Direct" audio passthrough mode. This mode is MUCH louder than the processed modes, so it's pretty annoying when it happens.

I've been reporting this since 1.0 without any joy or feedback. Josh? Anyone?

Since upgrading to 1.07 I have a strange sync problem when switching sources. For the first 5 seconds or so the projector will flash the screen on and off like it's having a hard time syncing with the VP30. The projector is a Samsung 710AE so hopefully someone else can verify this problem. Which source you select doesn't seem to impact the time it takes to sync the output. I want to stay at 1.07 or newer as i'm waiting for the abt102 to ship. Obviously going back to older code will render it worthless.

Jeff

I spent most if the day yesterday reading this thread so excuse me if this has been previously answered and I missed it. Here is what i want to do.

I have a Samsung DLP HLP- 4674, a DIRECTV HD-DVR HR10-250, and the Toshiba AX1 HD-DVD Player. I want to connect the DVR and Toshiba via HDMI to the VP30 and output 720P and two channel audio over HDMI to my DLP. Will this work?

Thanks very much.

Marcello,

I do not have a DVI port and am planning to use the Component out.

Is the 5 bnc RGBHV the same as component if you use only the 3 color like component or is it different. Otherwise how do you go component out of the VP30

I looked on the Aussie Link and reda thru all 31 pages but no mention of Panasonic. Lots of Fuji and 1 or 2 others.

I found something posted by Joe Murphy Jr with posts of different seting that worked on a similar Panny using hdmi. Since I'll be using Component don't the settings change ?

If you've got a link direct to Panny settings that would be great

thanks Misterdoggy

HI Misterdoggy,

Sorry, I was talking about the DVI blade - I don't think anyone is getting 1:1 over component - the RGBHV has the timing and sync separate (in addition to ) from the component input - you can use the RGBVH to output component (YUV) from the VP30 - however RGBHV would be a more stable signal.

As some of the panasonic posts say, 720p @ 50hz over component is pretty good, in case you can't get 1:1 ..

will keep looking for it!

Cheers,

Marcelo

Another data point wrt dropouts and Denon receivers:

The coax out from my Denon DVD-3800 goes into my VP-30 with firmware 1.05; from there, another coax cable brings it to my Denon 3805 receiver. I have been getting random audio dropouts lasting maybe 0.25 seconds, on assorted DVDs with both DD and DTS soundtracks. The problem is not limited to DVDs -- I have encountered the dropouts with laserdiscs played on my Pioneer CLD-704 through the VP30 (Toslink connection).

In each case, I verified that the problem was not with the DVD/LD by backing up a few seconds and playing back the spot where the dropout occurred.

minky - then why not load V1.07? at least in my setup, it is as good or better in all functionality, and has introduced no new bugs that I have discovered. And I have had only one dropout since install, and that seems to be tied to turning on my HD STB, and some minor issue it has with the VP. (only happened on initial setup - hence "minor.")

I spent most if the day yesterday reading this thread so excuse me if this has been previously answered and I missed it. Here is what i want to do.

I have a Samsung DLP HLP- 4674, a DIRECTV HD-DVR HR10-250, and the Toshiba AX1 HD-DVD Player. I want to connect the DVR and Toshiba via HDMI to the VP30 and output 720P and two channel audio over HDMI to my DLP. Will this work?
I don't know anything about the Samsung or DirectTV, but I don't think there is any problem passing 2 channel PCM from the HD-XA1 to your TV using HDMI through the VP30. I have passed 2 channel PCM to my receiver with no problems.

Thanks Jschefdog. It should work for me.

Just a point of clarification. You passed 2-channel over HDMI from your HD-AX1 thru the VP30 to you reciever.

Just a point of clarification. You passed 2-channel over HDMI from your HD-AX1 thru the VP30 to you reciever.
Correct except that I have a HD-A1, but as far as we know they are functionally identical.

I just ordered the ABT102 expansion board - will I automatically get upgraded firmware (to 1.07?) when I plug it in?

I haven't had any problems with my unit, but I haven't really excercised all the functions of the unit either.

For the Precision Deinterlacing Card (ABT102) to work, you will need to update the software on your iScan VP30. Installing just the card will not install the necessary software (hardware, yes). Software updates are always done through the VP30's serial port using a PC with a serial port or a USB-to-serial adapter.

Will the new card ship sometime soon?

Will the new card ship sometime soon?

Yes, it will be shipping in early May

Great! I am looking forward to it... 7 livesXposed on PBTV will be even better! Woo-Hoo! :)

Yes, it will be shipping in early May
I'ld take that as an absolute confirmation.

Well, "early May" is on us now.. my calendar reads 2nd May 2006. :D

Great! I am looking forward to it... 7 livesXposed on PBTV will be even better! Woo-Hoo! :)

your a funny dude Joe, your assumption is correct :D

-Gary

Phalanx,

I can attest that these guys are working very hard to meet the deadline.

Well rumour has that the one and only first HD national broadcast service in the UK (SkyHD via satalite) is going to have the following limits/features;

1) All HD channels will be 1080i only (with 720p/SD programs upscaled before transmission).

2) The STB scaler can be set to three modes (720p, 1080i or Auto).

3) The Auto mode will output SD channels at 576p.

4) HD content will be output via HDMI and Component and downscaled to SD via RGBs and S-Video (probably RF and composite too).

I suspect that given point 4 the video path always goes thru the internal scaler/deinterlacer and then is re-interlaced for the SD outputs so we may not see the original 576i signal from the 100+ SD channels (there are only ~4 non sport/movie HD channels at launch).

This doesn't leave much room for the VP30+ABT102 to shine as it may never see a nice pure SD signal and the only HD stuff will originate as 1080i and just either be bobed by the STB or VP30.

I'm awaiting a new 1080p TV (due out May/June) and have a 720p PJ.

I'll probably be connecting HDMI, Component and RGBs (plus Optical SPDIF) to the VP30 initially and S-Video to my SVHS deck for archiving (the STB has 160GB PVR built in).

So to those who've been using HD broadcast sources via the VP30 what do you recon is going to be the most likely better cabling route to use in the long run, have you had simular multi path setups in the past and still use them or given up and just gone for the best compromised path?

Well rumour has that the one and only first HD national broadcast service in the UK (SkyHD via satalite) is going to have the following limits/features;

1) All HD channels will be 1080i only (with 720p/SD programs upscaled before transmission).

2) The STB scaler can be set to three modes (720p, 1080i or Auto).

3) The Auto mode will output SD channels at 576p.

4) HD content will be output via HDMI and Component and downscaled to SD via RGBs and S-Video (probably RF and composite too).

I suspect that given point 4 the video path always goes thru the internal scaler/deinterlacer and then is re-interlaced for the SD outputs so we may not see the original 576i signal from the 100+ SD channels (there are only ~4 non sport/movie HD channels at launch).

This doesn't leave much room for the VP30+ABT102 to shine as it may never see a nice pure SD signal and the only HD stuff will originate as 1080i and just either be bobed by the STB or VP30.

I'm awaiting a new 1080p TV (due out May/June) and have a 720p PJ.

I'll probably be connecting HDMI, Component and RGBs (plus Optical SPDIF) to the VP30 initially and S-Video to my SVHS deck for archiving (the STB has 160GB PVR built in).

So to those who've been using HD broadcast sources via the VP30 what do you recon is going to be the most likely better cabling route to use in the long run, have you had simular multi path setups in the past and still use them or given up and just gone for the best compromised path?

My guess it that someone should try to add a sdi/hdsdi output as soon as possible for the sd signals.

Daniel.

For the Precision Deinterlacing Card (ABT102) to work, you will need to update the software on your iScan VP30. Installing just the card will not install the necessary software (hardware, yes). Software updates are always done through the VP30's serial port using a PC with a serial port or a USB-to-serial adapter.Updated my VP-30 software to beta 1.07 last night. It only took about 10 minutes, using the serial port. Reset all settings and everything is running smoothly so far. Just waiting for the ABT102 card now. :)

Paul

Where is the cheapest place to buy a serial to USB adapter?

I also put beta 1.07 on last night and it worked fine the first time. I use analog RGBHV outputs to my Mits TV, and I think things look a good bit better now with the color space conversion fix.

Can't wait for my ABT102 !

-John

the serial to usb adapters are nothing but trouble when updating the VP30, use the serial port on your PC for the updates

-Gary

Gary,

I agree -- the update worked perfectly @ 56k with the dusty 5+ year old Win2K PC I schlepped out of the attic. Just make sure you make the changes to your TerraTerm required for the VP30 (CR+LF, Hardware flow control, etc.)

-John

Updated my VP-30 software to beta 1.07 last night. It only took about 10 minutes, using the serial port. Reset all settings and everything is running smoothly so far. Just waiting for the ABT102 card now. :)

Paul



Considering the possible hang-ups, gonna wait for the ABT102 before upgrading from 1.05.

I am making a little stack of less than perfect dvds that I have picked up recently to run thru the 102 when it gets here. :D

Gary, most new computers don't have a serial port. I've had no trouble using my USB to Serial adapter.

Exactly. No serial ports here. So where can I get an adapter cheap?

Gary, most new computers don't have a serial port. I've had no trouble using my USB to Serial adapter.

seriously ?? since picking up a new Dell a few years ago I have looked at PC's much, that would suck indeed, Serial is still a needed connection for lots of stuff

-Gary

Gary, most new computers don't have a serial port. I've had no trouble using my USB to Serial adapter.

same here, no serial port on the pc laptop. It would be nice if the VP30 had a USB port for upgrades. Even better, an ethernet for internet upgrades. This makes the abt102 upgrade closer to $250 (not $199) with the usb-->serial adapter.

-Since the Norwegian DVDO distributor has elected not to reply to my e-mails this time, do I have any other means of getting the ABT-102 at approx. the $199 pricemark before May 15th.? From the UK, perhaps?

The two mails were sent from two different e-mail addresses, and over a week apart. Last mail I sent was on April 24th. Or should I just keep sending them e-mails?

-I knew I shouldn't have mentioned the initial lower price in my e-mails.....

-Since the Norwegian DVDO distributor has elected not to reply to my e-mails this time, do I have any other means of getting the ABT-102 at approx. the $199 pricemark before May 15th.? From the UK, perhaps?

The two mails were sent from two different e-mail addresses, and over a week apart. Last mail I sent was on April 24th. Or should I just keep sending them e-mails?

-I knew I shouldn't have mentioned the initial lower price in my e-mails.....
I bought mine from Lenexpo USA for USD199. Send Michael an email. They are a fantastic crowd to deal with - bought all my DVDO stuff from them at discounted US prices which have always been much less than my any of my local sources would supply them for. They are fully authorised DVDO dealers. Check out their web site.
mkhain@lenexpo-electronics.com

-Since the Norwegian DVDO distributor has elected not to reply to my e-mails this time, do I have any other means of getting the ABT-102 at approx. the $199 pricemark before May 15th.? From the UK, perhaps?

The two mails were sent from two different e-mail addresses, and over a week apart. Last mail I sent was on April 24th. Or should I just keep sending them e-mails?

-I knew I shouldn't have mentioned the initial lower price in my e-mails.....

I would talk to dvdo personally since i guess they want to know that local support aint working.

Daniel.

I would talk to dvdo personally since i guess they want to know that local support aint working.

Daniel.
Good idea, except that DVDO have no say in the pricing structure of their O/S dealers it would seem. Our local prices are inflated by at least 30% if not more. To me, that cost is too high for local support.

In dealing with Lenexpo, after I bought my HD+ from them, I was pleasantly surprised at how good their service is. I had one of the component inputs which was playing up and within 4 days I had a complete new set of PCBs for the HD+ which I simply swappped over and returned to them. The job was no more difficult than adding in an SDI card - thanks to DVDO's excellent engineering.

The total cost of the freight back to them, via standard airmail (no need for expensive UPS or the like), was less than it would have cost me to send the whole unit back to our local supplier and a WHOLE lot faster!!

-Since the Norwegian DVDO distributor has elected not to reply to my e-mails this time, do I have any other means of getting the ABT-102 at approx. the $199 pricemark before May 15th.? From the UK, perhaps?

The two mails were sent from two different e-mail addresses, and over a week apart. Last mail I sent was on April 24th. Or should I just keep sending them e-mails?

-I knew I shouldn't have mentioned the initial lower price in my e-mails.....
The UK disti (OWL) is doing a proper price, worth a try, don't know if there are contractual implications but if the Norwegian guys aren't even replying, sounds like they don't deserve the business and it's probably illegal to prevent one EU company from supplying customers in any EU country. Or is Norway one of those "funny" big European countries that's not in the EU? I think it might be actually.

For USB-Serial conversion I use the following IOGear product.

Link (http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GUC232A)

does anyone think that the VP30 would be ok driving a 35 Foot length of HDMI > DVI cable to my new CRT projector ?? I would be getting the best I can find, 22 AWG

I am wondering if I need a hdmi/DVI repeater ??

-Gary

does anyone think that the VP30 would be ok driving a 35 Foot length of HDMI > DVI cable to my new CRT projector ?? I would be getting the best I can find, 22 AWG

I am wondering if I need a hdmi/DVI repeater ??

-Gary

I'm using a 30' HDMI-DVI cable from Ram and I've seen no problems.

I updated my VP30 from 1.00 to 1.07.

I haven't given it a thorough workout, but pretty quickly, I got an audio dropout. Skipping back on the hd-tivo and replaying the scene gave no dropout.

My Toshiba HD-A1 HDDVD player used to pass DD 5.1 through the VP30 when the audio was set to HDMI and the HDMI output on the A1 was set to Auto. With 1.07, I get 2.0 PCM 96k. So something has definitely changed in the VP30.

Unfortunately, I can't check out my HD-Tivo's HDMI audio out b/c my HD-Tivo's hdmi card failed yesterday. I'm curious what 1.07 will do with the Tivo's HDMI audio.

Thanks Joe, I am going to try a 22 AWG 35 foot cable

-Gary

I updated my VP30 from 1.00 to 1.07.

I haven't given it a thorough workout, but pretty quickly, I got an audio dropout. Skipping back on the hd-tivo and replaying the scene gave no dropout.

My Toshiba HD-A1 HDDVD player used to pass DD 5.1 through the VP30 when the audio was set to HDMI and the HDMI output on the A1 was set to Auto. With 1.07, I get 2.0 PCM 96k. So something has definitely changed in the VP30.

Unfortunately, I can't check out my HD-Tivo's HDMI audio out b/c my HD-Tivo's hdmi card failed yesterday. I'm curious what 1.07 will do with the Tivo's HDMI audio.
When I tried v1.07 both my HDTiVos worked fine over HDMI for audio and video.

Display profiles don't work perfectly. When saving 1080i settings to one profile and for example 1024x576p to another, there's problems with i vs. p signals. When switching from 1080i profile to 576p profile, you get 576i! And vice versa, 576p->1080i puts out 1080p.

Who said you couldn't get standard interlaced signals out from VP30? :D

@Gary
My Vp30 successfully drives a projector using a 12m HDMI cable (that's just a bit more than 35ft :) )

does anyone think that the VP30 would be ok driving a 35 Foot length of HDMI > DVI cable to my new CRT projector ?? I would be getting the best I can find, 22 AWG

I am using as 23M cable to my Marantz VP12S2. It is an HDMI/HDMI cable with a DVI converter at the projector.

It came from BetterCables.com:

75.44 ft. HDMI Cable

Product Part #: HDMI-23-HH

Manufacturer Part #: HDMI-23-HH

For USB-Serial conversion I use the following IOGear product.

Link (http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GUC232A)

Thank you, TKO!

Gary, I use a 35 foot Monster HDMI cable with no issues.

does anyone think that the VP30 would be ok driving a 35 Foot length of HDMI > DVI cable to my new CRT projector ?? I would be getting the best I can find, 22 AWG
-Gary
Gary, I'm using a 15m (~49ft) HDMI-HDMI cable from VP30 to my PJ and have no issue so far.

More problems with 1.07. I'm finding this one to be very buggy. Out of the blue it decided not to take my S-Video feed from a Stadard DirectTV DVR. I default reset of the VP30 resolved. Also having what I'd best describe as tearing on the right hand side of the picture while displaying native 4.3 content. Never seen this before. Also still having sync issues on source switch to a H710AE. I've noticed some strange PQ issues with this version as well. Hopefully they shore up some of these issues prior to release of the ABT102.

Jeff

Count me as someone eagerly awaiting non-linear stretch; right from my pre-order purchase of the VP30. And it would be nice if we could get an update on when we might see new firmware with this feature.

Mike


As I've posted previously to Josh, as soon as this feature is implemented I'll place my order... I have a household of folks addicted to shows ONLY available in SD.

bradesp

Another bug I'm having with 1.07: horizontal borders don't work. With 4:3 material displayed on 16:9 screen the left and right bars are always black in spite of border level adjustment so they cannot be adjusted to gray.

edit: Factory default boot cured this.

As I've posted previously to Josh, as soon as this feature is implemented I'll place my order... I have a household of folks addicted to shows ONLY available in SD.

bradesp

I've been wondering this myself. They could partner or license the technology from someone like Cyberlink (makers of Power DVD) who has some great stretch methods. Thats the primary reason I use my HTPC is it's ability to handle/stretch SD content to 16:9. Why reinvent the wheel. They could probably provide Cyberlink with a nice PCI daughter card that would compliment their software. Bah what do I know :)

Jeff

I installed v1.07 yesterday. I had a couple of momentary audio dropouts while watching OTA high def programming. Prior to v1.07 I experienced no momentary audio dropuouts while watching OTA or satellite programming with the HD10-250. I also got motorboating when I switched inputs from my DVD player using HDMI to DirectTV HD10-250 using HDMI. A power off and on at the front switch on the VP30 solved the problem. Wow, I thought these updates would be showing progress each time, but it appears that in some cases we're going backwards.

I am driving my projector over a 35' DVI-DVI cable with an HDMI-DVI adapter at the VP30 end. The picture is superb.

As an old electrical (digital) engineer, I was never OVERLY concerned with the quality of cables in my system. Using digital cables, if the output gets there and passes checksums, error detection codes, etc. it is there. That is, noise affects digital signals in a macro manner totally obliterating them, but not degrading them. E.g. I use any type of 75 ohm, well shielded, cable for Component video or S/PDIF coaxial audio. That is really all they require. Typical component runs in my system (component switcher to VP30) are 20 feet. S/PDIF coaxial runs are the same.

I use inexpensive ($15 for 20 feet) Toslink optical cable. Very flexible very thin. Once again its digital. If it get there it is there.

For Speaker Wire, I use 14 or 16 gauge Zip type cord (2 or 4 conductor, multi stranded) depending on run lengths. I do not ascribe to all the "Monster Cable marketing" having done the "coat hanger" experiment.

I will stack the audio and video quality I get against any I have seen. Oh yes, nothing fancy for the power cords either, and all electronics except the Projector and Audio power amp run off a small UPS (many power drops in central FL).

I agree with you about digital cables for the most part if it gets there then it gets there. Then in came HDMI cables. For some reason sometimes that is not the case. My bettercables HDMI cable was 8 meters. And it showed sparklies so much I was almost getting used to them. Then I went to the Monster 35 foot HDMI cable and just like that they were gone. I am pretty sure another good quality HDMI cable would have done the trick as well though. I thought bettercables was good quality. I used there component cables all the time (BIG silver reference type). Anyway, so I have learned when it comes to HDMI, all cables are not equal...

I installed v1.07 yesterday. I had a couple of momentary audio dropouts while watching OTA high def programming. Prior to v1.07 I experienced no momentary audio dropuouts while watching OTA or satellite programming with the HD10-250. I also got motorboating when I switched inputs from my DVD player using HDMI to DirectTV HD10-250 using HDMI. A power off and on at the front switch on the VP30 solved the problem. Wow, I thought these updates would be showing progress each time, but it appears that in some cases we're going backwards.

that's very disappointing about the motorboating. I've only got one hdmi source right now since my hdtivo hdmi card is out for repair, so I can't play with the hdmi switching which used to give me motorboating with 1.00. but I too am seeing audio dropouts from the hdtivo (via optical) on both satellite and ota. rewind, they play with no dropouts.

I don't think Barry meant that all cables are equal. What you are seeing here is the effect of a cable that is NOT up to the job. High frequency loss and phase shift are to blame here.

It is a given that good quality low loss cable is generally more costly to make. But, what we all want to avoid though, is paying ludricous prices for quality products. Monster cables and the like are generally good quality products, but way way overpriced for what they are. Margins on these products are very high - you come to realise that when you get to the Chinese/Foreign source(s) of these components.

All cables are equal, but some are more equal than others :)

Phil has my intent correct. To introduce sparklies on a run of the length specified in the post by joerod the cable has to be of very poor quality.

Maybe the problem is with the suppliers name "Bettercables" Better than what - rope? :)

that's very disappointing about the motorboating. I've only got one hdmi source right now since my hdtivo hdmi card is out for repair, so I can't play with the hdmi switching which used to give me motorboating with 1.00. but I too am seeing audio dropouts from the hdtivo (via optical) on both satellite and ota. rewind, they play with no dropouts.

geez - this has to be bizarre - 1.07 has pretty much cured the problems I've been bitching about since day one. (thanks Josh and gang :) ) That is a drag that others are having problems - I may need to archive 1.07 - for me it works, and it has support for the new card.

Strange to think technology has come around and now the serial connectors we use to take for granted in the old PCs are a rare commodity... :) I use serial to drive other things from my HTPC (like control my Denon amp, Samsung HD Direct TV receiver, etc.), so have installed a PCI Serial card for extra Serial connectors. You can get a one port card for about $17 or a two port for $20 as an alternative to using a USB to serial converter. Had quite a few problems going the USB to serial route. None with the real ports...

I know of many individuals who have used the IOnetworks line of USB to serial devices. They come in a 1, 2, 4, and 8 port versions. They are not cheap but sometimes very good buys show up on ebay. I picked up two 8 port versions (used) for $25 each.

In fact there somone selling cases of 18 1 port USB to serial converters with a starting price of $1.00 for the case (18 units)

I've actually got an ethernet to serial converter.

Haven't tried it out on the VP30 yet, but have used it successfully with other kit.

Details here (http://www.bb-europe.com/product_family.asp?FamilyId=2&TrailType=Sub&Trail=1)

Good evening,


Been lurking in this forum for some time and I finally have a reason to post. Got my VP30 some time ago and I'm very happy with it for the most part. The info on this site has helped me fix or avoid a number of issues so thanks to you all.

Last weekend I upgraded the software from 1.0 to 1.6 and it seems I have a problem I can't get around. I use HDMI from a DirecTv H10 to the VP30 and on 1.6 I can't keep the 'curtain' open. Closes on me every time after giving me a brief look at a show. I hit the 'curtain' button and it has only opened once and stayed open. I switched to component tonight and have no problems except the picture quality is not as good. 1.0 did not have the HDMI problem on my setup.

Anyone got any ideas? I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

I posted this after installing 1.06 and I'm having the same problem with 1.07. In both cases everything worked fine for a couple of days and then HDMI from my DirecTv H10 to the VP30 stopped working. If I toggle HDCP MODE off and on, the curtain partially opens and then closes. Tried resets on all my gear with no luck. I'm using component now because it works, but I'm not as happy with the PQ. No audio issues at all. I should have stayed on 1.0. Eventhough I sometimes got motorboating, I could fix it with a reset. HDMI between my DVD and VP30 works fine.

Update:

Hooked the H10 to HDMI-3 and it's working. HDMI-1 exhibits curtain problems within a couple of days after a software update. If in a few days the same problem happens, I suppose I need to call Tech Support. I probably should call even if it doesn't fail I guess. :confused:

Man, spell check certainly does some strange things to your post sometimes!!

After more extensive viewing since uploading 1.07, I'm getting far more audio dropouts than with 1.00. This is watching an HDTivo via component video and optical audio. Rewinding back over the dropout and the audio plays. Very frustrating. Audio is output to a B&K Ref 50.

Joe - What software version does your Ref 50 have?

Main Menu-> Unit Information (7) -> Software (2)

I have an AVR507 with 2.02 that has no problems with an SD-TiVo connected via optical and S-Video to my VP30 and an HD-TiVo connected via HDMI (audio/video, VP30 'HDCP Mode' on Input set to 'Off').

Joe - What software version does your Ref 50 have?

Main Menu-> Unit Information (7) -> Software (2)

I have an AVR507 with 2.02 that has no problems with an SD-TiVo connected via optical and S-Video to my VP30 and an HD-TiVo connected via HDMI (audio/video, VP30 'HDCP Mode' on Input set to 'Off').

I've got 2.03. My HD-Tivo's HDMI card failed and is out for repair. I should get it back next week and will see if that changes my dropout situation. I also haven't tried any source other than the HD-Tivo yet to see if I'm getting dropouts elsewhere, but like I said I can skip back and the audio is there. There doesn't appear to be any consistency to the dropouts, they randomly occur. I can go an hour without, but then get 2 or 3 in fifteen minutes.

On another note, do you have an HD-DVD player yet to hook up to a VP30? Just curious if you know what's going on between 1.00 and later versions with regard to the HDMI audio from the HD-A1 passing 5.1 via the VP-30's digital out in 1.00 versus passing 2.0 in later firmware versions.

Anyone running the RCA DTC210 HDTV Receiver with the VP30?

I can't get the VP30 to recognize this HDTV receiver at 720P using DVI out from the receiver and HDMI in on the VP30.

An observation regarding SA 8300HD DVR's and the VP30

The front panel of the SA8300HD DVR shows the resolution that the station is transmitting at or the resolution it is sending out. I am not sure which one, but it is irrelevant. Sometimes that indicator rapidly flashes on and off. When the flashing gets really bad, the unit (SA 8300HD) will reboot.

Today I learned that the flashing occurrs when the HDCP handshake fails, normally when the display is turned off. I never turn off my display nor the VP30 and I have noticed it both on the SA8300 I have currently selected for input via the VP30 and the one that is not selected.

This is sort of saying that the VP30 is losing and regaining the HDCP handshake with the DVR's. Sometimes the signal is not flashing and is rock solid. I guess I need to observe this better.

Why would the VP30 ever blow the HDCP handshake? It shouldn't. It either should tell the selected unit what the situation is and the non selected unit(s) that the display is off, or it should tell all units whether selected or not what the display characteristics are.

If it is blowing the handshake as the SA 8300 seems to indicate, and doing it quite often, then that might explain a lot of the HDMI (HDCP) problems, including why different sources act differently! It might even explain audio dropouts and why different sources . . .

Comments?

I may have to go through technical support for the answer but thought I would try here. I am using a Xantech IR redistribution setup and the VP30 does not seem to work through it although every other piece of audio/video gear I own works fine. I can see the Xantech is receiving the signal as it flashes a LED light when IR signal is received however on the other end the VP30 does not respond. Using the remote right in front of the unit does of course work. Does DVDO use some strange IR signal out of the norm?

Jeff

Jeff - If your iScan VP30 is from the first batch the problem that you are experiencing may be related to the IR lens that was used on that batch. Here is some more info:

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/IR%20Sensitivity%201_16_06.pdf

Word of warning.
Day after I placed my internet order at DVDO for the VP30, my credit card number was used to make about $4000-$5000 in purchases at various online stores--Dell, JCPenney Online, Sam's Online, etc. Contacted DVDO and awaiting an explanation. Yes, I still have the card in my possession and no other online purchases were made recently. Again, word of warning. You may want to call your card companies if you recently used your credit card with them.

Jeff - If your iScan VP30 is from the first batch the problem that you are experiencing may be related to the IR lens that was used on that batch. Here is some more info:

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/IR%20Sensitivity%201_16_06.pdf

Thanks Josh, my VP I assume is the latest batch as it was drop shipped from DVDO directly or so the return address said and was shipped less then a month ago. Should I go ahead and submit my SN according to the letter and they will let me know one way or another if I'm affected?

Jeff

imdocjoe - I'd doubt if it is on DVDOs end - they had my card number for monthes (as well as many others here who preordered.) I'd look somewhere else for the leak, before dissing dvdo on a public forum.

imdocjoe - I'd doubt if it is on DVDOs end - they had my card number for monthes (as well as many others here who preordered.) I'd look somewhere else for the leak, before dissing dvdo on a public forum.

I'm not "dissing" them. I'm just giving a general warning to recent credit card users. Check your statements. I have absolutely no evidence to suggest it was the fault of DVDO. It's all circumstantial but it's one heck of a coincidence.
Joe

If no evidence why post on a public forum-an ulterior motive perhaps?

I may have to go through technical support for the answer but thought I would try here. I am using a Xantech IR redistribution setup and the VP30 does not seem to work through it although every other piece of audio/video gear I own works fine. I can see the Xantech is receiving the signal as it flashes a LED light when IR signal is received however on the other end the VP30 does not respond. Using the remote right in front of the unit does of course work. Does DVDO use some strange IR signal out of the norm?

Jeff

I have the new lens installed and also use a Xantech setup. The original remote is more reliable than my universal remote (an MX3000), but neither is consistent. The issue is mostly with the power and standy functions, at least what I've experienced.

If no evidence why post on a public forum-an ulterior motive perhaps?

Good lord. Forget it. Nothing to see here. No more attempts at trying to be helpful. Do not respond to this thread and let it die.

dude if you think that DVDO used your card, that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard, the leak was elsewhere, I would be checking my online habits

-Gary

dude if you think that DVDO used your card, that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard, the leak was elsewhere, I would be checking my online habits

-Gary

I don't quite think that's what he's saying.

Looks like DVDO uses a 3rd party for online ordering anyway. I'm sure that company has 100's of smaller business hooked into them and makes them a target for hackers. While his purchase may of been through DVDO they don't do any of the payment processing. I'm sure if they got your information from LinkPoint there are a lot of other individuals like yourself searching for answers.

Jeff

I am not fimiliar with DVDO's ordering, I have never purchased anything directly from them, if that is the case though then that could very well be what happened Jeff

-Gary

I may have to go through technical support for the answer but thought I would try here. I am using a Xantech IR redistribution setup and the VP30 does not seem to work through it although every other piece of audio/video gear I own works fine. I can see the Xantech is receiving the signal as it flashes a LED light when IR signal is received however on the other end the VP30 does not respond. Using the remote right in front of the unit does of course work. Does DVDO use some strange IR signal out of the norm?

Jeff

I've only just setup a xantech system for all my gear which are in units. My replacement VP30 probably has the new lens and I'd guess yours does too. The only issues I've noticed I think were while the doors to the units were open (so the VP30 may have been receiving an IR echo from the emitter and direct from the remote and getting confused so ignored the commands).

Was your VP30 out of direct IR range? If not you may need the black covers (or some tape ;) ) to mask the VP30 sensor from direct signals.

Most of my other gear didn't seem as sensitive to this, I'm just trying to train myself not to keep looking for all the little displays/lights and get on with enjoying the entertainment (not easy for an IT bloke :o ).

Although I use the IR capability of the VP30 very infrequently, I use the RS232 capability, I did implement it with xantech emitters being directly driven from a PC. I did cover the emitter on the front of the VP30 with black tape to eliminate reflections and extraneous pickup. I have never had any IR problems.

An observation regarding SA 8300HD DVR's and the VP30

If it is blowing the handshake as the SA 8300 seems to indicate, and doing it quite often, then that might explain a lot of the HDMI (HDCP) problems, including why different sources act differently! It might even explain audio dropouts and why different sources . . .

Comments?
Unfortunately no Barry. I have a set up with NO HDMI sources at all. Yet, I still get video and audio dropouts on even on my component inputs. I have 2 other digital inputs, connected via DVI to 2 of the HDMI inputs and these, as you might perhaps expect, like wise have dropouts (video and audio blanking) associated with them, only more frequently. I'm still running Vs 1.06. Was going to go to Vs 1.07, but so far reports haven't been too encouraging. When my ABT102 arrives, I'll make the changeover.

Personally, looking back on this whole VP30 product, I would have much preferred an HD+ with a couple more DVI and audio inputs - that would have given me the perfect solution (given the reliability of the HD+). I don't have an HDCP enabled display, so HDCP capability was never an issue for me.

That makes me unhappy.

I use component for my media [layer system and DVD players and I do not recall either audio or video dropouts ever occurring. The DVD players put out 480i and DD 5.1 or DTS as encoded on the DVD. The media player puts out 720p video and DTS or PCM as it processes ripped streams from both normal CD's and DTS CD's. It also handles vob files and puts them out also (Ripped DVD's)

I will try and be more aware, but I honestly can not recall that (deopouts on component input) happening on my setup.

That makes me unhappy.

I use component for my media [layer system and DVD players and I do not recall either audio or video dropouts ever occurring. The DVD players put out 480i and DD 5.1 or DTS as encoded on the DVD. The media player puts out 720p video and DTS or PCM as it processes ripped streams from both normal CD's and DTS CD's. It also handles vob files and puts them out also (Ripped DVD's)

I will try and be more aware, but I honestly can not recall that (deopouts on component input) happening on my setup.
Yeah me too (makes me unhappy). Was over the moon with the HD+. It was the perfect black box for me. Just sat there in the dark and worked flawlessly. But, I needed 2 more difital inputs (576i/p), and given that the RGBHV input was also going to be processed and transcoded, I thought the VP30 would be just the shot. (and maybe it still is...)

Sigh...., given the complexity of today's equipment, it would seem a rarity these days to get something out of the box that works properly the first time. Take my OPPO 971H for example. Another brilliant product, but still plagued with audio sync problems, now a year on. Like DVDO, a very responsive company and trying their best to get it right, so I shouldn't be complaining....Just getting a bit dispondant over it all. Must be having a bad week.

I'm finally ready to give up on using the VP30 for switching my audio. The question is where can I find a list that states how long of an audio delay I need? For example if you input 480i and output 720p you have a 40ms delay.

I'm finally ready to give up on using the VP30 for switching my audio. The question is where can I find a list that states how long of an audio delay I need? For example if you input 480i and output 720p you have a 40ms delay.

I believe the audio delay is automatically calculated by the VP30 based on which types of processing its doing ie: deinterlacing/scaling etc....

Barry,

I have the SA8300HD connected to my VP30 and I have no such issues as you describe. I use the coax output to my AVR and do not go throught he VP30. I am at Rev 1.00. I get audio drop outs, but it is MY CABLE service. I rewind my DVR and the dropout is still there. This proves to me that it is the cable (COMCAST). It cannot be the VP30 in my instance, since I do not use it for audio processing.

I am getting nervous about the 1.07 upgrade when my ABT102 arrives with all of the problems that people are describing.

I do not seem to have a HDMI handshake issue as you describe.

Steve

I have gotten just the opposite, rewind the DVR and the dropout is gone.

i am just describing what I see.

It is interesting that there is that much variation between two seemingly identical systems. I have never run V1.00 on the VP30.

Well, I updated to the latest version (1.07) in hoping of fixing the dreaded "curtain of death" but alas, it still is there:( FYI, the device that is having the problem is a Sony DHG-HDD250 DVR. DVDO, please take note of this...

I'm finally ready to give up on using the VP30 for switching my audio. The question is where can I find a list that states how long of an audio delay I need? For example if you input 480i and output 720p you have a 40ms delay.

The VP30 automatically calculates how much delay is necessary to put on the audio, based on 3 factors:

Input Resolution
Output Resolution
Output Frame Rate

If you select Input Adjust-.AV Lipsync you will see this adjusted value is '0' on the slider bar. If you press and hold the down button you will see how much delay the VP30 is puttong on the audio so that it is sync with the video (this will be a negative value). For example, in my system with a 480i input signal and output set to 540p@60Hz there is 56ms of delay added to the audio. This is with the Precision Deinterlacing Card (ABT102) installed which has less delay than the SiI504 deinterlacer.

Well, I updated to the latest version (1.07) in hoping of fixing the dreaded "curtain of death" but alas, it still is there:( FYI, the device that is having the problem is a Sony DHG-HDD250 DVR. DVDO, please take note of this...

Has there been a version of software for the VP30 which did not have this issue on your system?

I've got 2.03. My HD-Tivo's HDMI card failed and is out for repair. I should get it back next week and will see if that changes my dropout situation. I also haven't tried any source other than the HD-Tivo yet to see if I'm getting dropouts elsewhere, but like I said I can skip back and the audio is there. There doesn't appear to be any consistency to the dropouts, they randomly occur. I can go an hour without, but then get 2 or 3 in fifteen minutes.

On another note, do you have an HD-DVD player yet to hook up to a VP30? Just curious if you know what's going on between 1.00 and later versions with regard to the HDMI audio from the HD-A1 passing 5.1 via the VP-30's digital out in 1.00 versus passing 2.0 in later firmware versions.


I played around with the 'Plug-and-Play' settings on the AVR507, which directly effect how audio is handled by the B&K. The settings can be found :

Main Menu->System Setup (5)->Advanced (6)->Plug and Play Timings (8)

The settings that I have are:

Mute Time: 0.1
Digital Sticky: 2.0
Mode Sticky: 0.8
Parameters Sticky: 0.1
Invalid Bitstream: Off

We are still trying to get an HD-DVD player. If anybody knows where we can get one immediately, please PM me. We changed our EDID in software version after 1.00 to be ATC compliant. This is why some devices are having issue outputting 5.1 audio over HDMI (like the Sony 975 DVD player). We are working on adding a feature to our software thta will allow the user to select which EDID they would like used on a per input basis.

Josh - You can get them online via Value Electronics, or try your local Wal-Mart for the HD-D1.

I'll try Value Electronics. The local Wal-Marts are a no-go.