Ditto... Very easy. I was on the phone while I did it. And let me say first off I noticed a BIG difference while viewing 7 lives Xposed on PBTV.... ;) :) :cool: :eek:

Count me as someone eagerly awaiting non-linear stretch; right from my pre-order purchase of the VP30. And it would be nice if we could get an update on when we might see new firmware with this feature.

Mike

Any updates on NLS for the VP30? Is it going to happen anytime soon? If not what can be done to stretch a 4:3 into a 16:9 display?

Oliver

Hai,

New secrets test is online get it while its hot.

Daniel.

Any updates on NLS for the VP30? Is it going to happen anytime soon?
Now that ABT102 is out the door, and audio issues are being solved; I am sure it won't be long. :)

StooMonster

Hai,

New secrets test is online get it while its hot.

Daniel.

got a link for us? Thanks.

(if this post bothers anyone, please ignore)

[QUOTE=flyingvee]got a link for us? Thanks.

Review for VP30 (scroll down) (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=127#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor/Hub%20(Component))

and

Review for VP30 + ABT102 Card (scroll down) (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=128#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor%20wit h%20ABT%20Precision%20De-interlacing%20(HDMI))

So, DVDO reps, what officially is the new designation for the VP30 with ABT102 combo? Is it a VP30+? Is it a VP40? What do we call it?

[QUOTE=flyingvee]got a link for us? Thanks.

Review for VP30 (scroll down) (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=127#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor/Hub%20(Component))

and

Review for VP30 + ABT102 Card (scroll down) (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=128#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor%20wit h%20ABT%20Precision%20De-interlacing%20(HDMI))

Thanks mate. :) btw, after reading the article, was surprised to find who sspears is. I was unaware of the credentials of some contributers here - wow. Remind me never to contradict ANYONE here. :o

Josh or Dale (or anyone who might know),

How does the DVDO products, VP30 in particular, scale a 1920 x 1080 signal to 1280 x 720? I have a handle on the interlace to progressive function, but I am not too sure how the scaling takes place. If one scales a 1920 x 1080 signal to 1280 x 720 is there information that is discarded from the 1080 source material?

I hope my question makes sense, I have looked for this information but have not found out much.

Thanks.

How does the DVDO products, VP30 in particular, scale a 1920 x 1080 signal to 1280 x 720? I have a handle on the interlace to progressive function, but I am not too sure how the scaling takes place. If one scales a 1920 x 1080 signal to 1280 x 720 is there information that is discarded from the 1080 source material?The VP30 scales each individual 1080i field to a 720p frame. When it does this, it takes into account whether the 1080i field is odd or even, and provides appropriate vertical phase shift in the scaling process to ensure that the vertical position of the field being scaled is maintained. (This is essentially a 'bob' technique.) No information is actually discarded, as each input field is scaled to one output frame (assuming the output frame rate is locked to the input rate), but it does not take advantage of potential improvements in vertical resolution which are possible from motion-adaptive processing or weaving fields together when there is a valid cadence (e.g., 3:2 or 2:2) present.

- Dale Adams

Remind me never to contradict ANYONE here. :o We're going to hold you to that, you know. :D

- Dale Adams

Dale,

Thanks for answering my question, however, I am still confused as to how the 1920x1080 pixels are mapped to the 1280x720 pixels. There must be some type of data reduction that occurs. Some how the Y, Pr, Pb information for each pixel from the 1080 source has to getted mapped to the Y, Pr, Pb 720 pixel information, I assume that there has to be some type of interpolation (filtering) that has to occur. Is this correct? Is it done pixel by pixel? What is the resolution of this "filtering" Perhaps I am too confused to help.

Thanks.

Hai,

The first batch of 102D cards made it to Dutch shores so things are moving along now. All in all we have to admit they only delayed this product for 2 weeks that has to be some kind of record in scaler biz. :).

Maybe i missed it but didn't Josh say there was a new feature he would announce ? NLS maybe ?

Daniel.

The new feature is called "Serious Error 24". ;) I have a hunch we will probably have to wait for another firmware update before he can announce the new feature.

ABT102 observations since Friday, 5/12:

VHS

1. Tapes were unwatchable on my high-def TV. Can't believe how good they look now.

DVD

1. More detail and richer color.
2. Significant audio dropouts lasting up to 20 seconds.
3. Occasional audio/video freeze, like I hit pause, for up to 30 seconds then it starts up again. Strange.

DirecTv (H10)

1. Have to use S-video to get 480i. HDMI and component are both progressive only.
2. HD content is about the same.
3. SD content is somewhat better, but not worth the hassle of changing the aspect for the high def/digital channels. I'll stick with HDMI here.

Conclusion:

Nice upgrade. The audio/video issues I mentioned need to be addressed to really make this a great upgrade.

ABT102 observations since Friday, 5/14:


DirecTv (H10)

1. Have to use S-video to get 480i. HDMI and component are both progressive only.


I don't know if this is true - the manual seems to say it will support 480i on all outputs. I know my HR10-250 definitely does over component and claims to when switched to digital output, and it looks like the H10 does the same?

Anyway, when I format switch mine to 480i, the VP30 definitely detects it and the 102 kicks in. Now if I could just figure out some automatic way to switch formats based on the format of the recorded show...

Eric

H10

What I get on component or HDMI is 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
Composite or S-video is 480i only. PQ degrades with these 2, so it's HDMI for me.

I am still confused as to how the 1920x1080 pixels are mapped to the 1280x720 pixels. There must be some type of data reduction that occurs. Some how the Y, Pr, Pb information for each pixel from the 1080 source has to getted mapped to the Y, Pr, Pb 720 pixel information, I assume that there has to be some type of interpolation (filtering) that has to occur. Is this correct? Is it done pixel by pixel? What is the resolution of this "filtering"
Thanks.

I think it is: each 1080i frame (540 lines) is converted to 720p (720 lines), so some extra lines are made up (interpolated). (Also in order to avoid ugly flicker the even frames are shifted up a bit.) Formally this does not trow away information, but in real life you average out filmframes (if there is cadence). I suppose this will soften film.

Jochem

I will be putting it thu the paces tonite but so far I really like whaat I see! :)

all I can say to DVDO is: Where is mine? I emailed and got no reply if mine shipped yet.

I noticed the card is on their site now for 499.99...

I noticed the card is on their site now for 499.99...


The intro discount ended yesterday

all I can say to DVDO is: Where is mine? I emailed and got no reply if mine shipped yet.

Reeeeeesistiiiiiiiiiing the urge to eeeeeemaaaaaail toooooooo..... :eek: :D

-I don't think this has been mentioned before:

I was just thinking that since the ABT102 is an electronic expansion card that you put into an electronic environment, that the same precautions would apply to the process of installing this card as when you install for instance a new graphics card in a computer?

Grounding yourself to avoid static charges, I mean.

Or does that not apply here? From reading here, it sounds like people are just "shoving it in there", without negative consequences.

Memory is thinning here, has anyone been using 1080p inputs (HDMI/DVI) on the VP30, I vagueing remember 1080p pass thru as not being implemented yet but can't remember if 1080p input (to scale down to display) worked?

My PC picks up the VP30 as a 1080p capable display but can't get a picture when switching to 1080p60 (vp30 info says Unknown for the input signal). Simular results when setting the HDMB to 1080p.

(Just thinking that a downscaled from 1080p picture should look better then from 1080i/720p on the VP30).


Grounding
Yes you should ground yourself before doing anything with electronic equipment, even touching the sockets! The case should be insolated but any connecters can carry damaging charges.

But it depends on how much static you tend to get, if you find yourself getting shocks off any metel thing you touch you might want to wear a grounding cable before taking stuff apart. :D

Otherwise simply touching something that is grounded before starting is usually enough.

Oops....

I've run into problems updating my VP30 to 1.07.

I downloaded the latest tera term software, and the 1.07.abt file.

I use a serial cable.

I've followed the instructions to the letter on this page (http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php#instructions), setting up the software and the VP30.

It first started off good, then after maybe a few minutes, I got an error message:

"Loading...Failure
Data file corrupt. Check File.
Press front panel button to restart."

I've now downloaded the file again - but how do I get out of this? When I press a front panel button, it resets, but then immediately I get a new error message.

I'm afraid that if I turn the VP30 off, I won't be able to turn it back on to update it again?

How do I get out of this mess?

Oops....

I've run into problems updating my VP30 to 1.07.

I downloaded the latest tera term software, and the 1.07.abt file.

I use a serial cable.

I've followed the instructions to the letter on this page (http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php#instructions), setting up the software and the VP30.

It first started off good, then after maybe a few minutes, I got an error message:

"Loading...Failure
Data file corrupt. Check File.
Press front panel button to restart."

I've now downloaded the file again - but how do I get out of this? When I press a front panel button, it resets, but then immediately I get a new error message.

I'm afraid that if I turn the VP30 off, I won't be able to turn it back on to update it again?

How do I get out of this mess?

John you need to ensure you've enabled Hardware flow control under the setup serial communications. By default it's set to Xon/Xoff and will cause the error you described.

Thank you - but *phew*!!! -I managed to solve it! :eek:

-My poor heart... :o


I had set it to 'hardware', but still got that error.

Since I thought it was a bit early in the day to get help from 'over there', I tried a couple of things to see if I could fix the problem myself. I don't know which of these things actually fixed it:

I use PCCillin Internet Security 14 (2006), and so because of the "corrupt file" message, I turned off 'Real-time Virus Protection'. Virus scanners often cause trouble because of that.

Just to have tested it (hardware may be different), I also tried setting flow control back from 'hardware' (which I correctly had set it to) to Xon/Xoff. That caused a flow control error (overflow).

I then went back to 'hardware'.

I initially downloaded the .abt file to a folder on my Desktop, a folder I use for downloaded files so they're easy to find.
Since I got the 'corrupt file' message, I also downloaded the file again, just in case. But I now downloaded it directly to Desktop.
The reason I mention this as a possible difference, is that I used to have a digital camera that was connected via serial cable (it was from before USB was popular). Back then, I would often get errors when trying to transfer images to a folder on the Desktop, but the Desktop itself was OK.

So I tried that as well.

I also had the problem that when I pressed a button on the front panel of the VP30, I didn't have time to try and re-send the file, because by the time I reached my PC keyboard, I had gotten the error message again.

Anyway - after several atempts, I managed to throw myself across the room and press Enter before I got the error message...

And finally, as by magic, the whole process went smoothly.

Phew! I'm pale and sweaty! :eek:

John didn't you hear 1.08 is coming out tomorrow, so you'll have to do it again. :D j/k

Glad to hear you got it working.

I noticed the card is on their site now for 499.99...

You can still get it at: http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/msg_search.php?text=LINE%20DOUBLERS
for the discounted price.

CD

Reeeeeesistiiiiiiiiiing the urge to eeeeeemaaaaaail toooooooo..... :eek: :D


I ended up calling and they told me thier goal was to have all preorderd shipped by this Friday.

I also had the problem that when I pressed a button on the front panel of the VP30, I didn't have time to try and re-send the file, because by the time I reached my PC keyboard, I had gotten the error message again.


Glad to hear things are working, but if this happens again in the future, there's an easier way than running across the room to stop the problem described above. Power off the VP30, and in Teraterm, disconnect from the serial port or quit, and the VP30 will wait for you. What's happening is that even though the VP30 has stopped the download and rebooted itself already, Teraterm is still sending the file. So when the VP30 comes up, it sees a bunch of random bytes on its serial port, and thinks you're trying to download, but fails because they're from the middle of the .abt file. If you disconnect from the serial port or quit Teraterm, it will stop sending down the serial port.

The same thing happened to me, and I fixed it by going to a hard-wired serial port instead of using the USB serial port (a Keyspan High-Speed). It would fail when it got to almost 900000 bytes loaded, waited a bit (perhaps the VP30 was trying to catch up), and then failed. On the hard-wired serial port, it did the same pause at the same point, but then resumed. I can only assume there's some funky flow control problems.

After using Lumagen's update utility for their HDP box, I have to say that the DVDO method is pretty darn primitive, hard-to-use, prone to failure, and on the verge of unacceptable.

--Andre

Andre (and John) - I've updated twice by genuine serial port - 1st time, followed directions exactly, since I didn't know what I was doing, and it went transparently. The second time, I thought Tera Term would remember my old settings - it DIDN'T - so I had the problems John noted. Unplugging didn't help; but once I went back thru Tera Term, upgrade went fine.

NOTE to ABT upgraders: at least in my case, it is entirely possible that after installing the card, you will no longer be able to view ANY 480i input signals - dvd, or sd tv. That was the case with mine - scared me to death. (and bummed me out no end.) Put in a Fleetwood Mac dvd with horrible jaggies to see the improvement, and no picture. :( Got suspicious, hit the progressive button, and had picture. Fired up HD box - no problem. Went to sd tv - no picture. Reseated the card (twice) - no help. Had to do a reset - Factory Default (Unplug, Plug in+Hold 'Menu' and 'Exit' on Front Panel) - after that, 480i magically reappeared. ABT has worked fine since (but this is only an hour or so - twas late.)

as an aside to dvdo techs - when the card was first installed, the VP30 for some reason also switched my output res to 480p. But even after switching back to my preferred output res, still no picture until above procedure was followed.

Hai,

Installed and tested 2 cards today and well they work :). No need to add to all the comments already posted but lets just say video just got a nice boost. One extra warning
on one setup the dvd player used was set to pal and since the dvd is ntsc we got a scare since that totally messed up al the tests (he could not see a difference in the before and after and had a weird judder).

I use a 2900sdi and H78 and it was a install and go ...

One tip for the dvd test disc makers why not add some nice F1 if that is allowed there is nothing like it in moving white lines all over the place and weird angles. Also with about 300 camera's (each car has like 8 alone) its a good mix of bad things.

Daniel.


PS: i noticed all the boxes have numbers ive seen about 10 today all in the 500 range. Also they are going fast seems people want them installed before the soccer starts.

"NOTE to ABT upgraders: at least in my case, it is entirely possible that after installing the card, you will no longer be able to view ANY 480i input signals - dvd, or sd tv." - flyingvee


hmmmm....in an earlier post I stated that I could not get 480i on component or HDMI from my DirecTv H10, I could only get 480p, 720p, 1080i. To get 480i, I had to use S-video, which I have decided I don't want to do. After thinking back to pre-ATB102, I do seem to recall SD at 480i on HDMI and component. Maybe there is some problem here. I'm not inclined to take out the card to test it however.

EricBergan, I believe you were correct.

Just had a chance to have a look between the VP30+ABT102 and a Lumagen HDP/Vantage. I have to say that the deinterlacing powess of the ABT102 is fantastic. It almost does better then HQV in all the real life test in the test DVD that comes with the ABT102.

However I have a few concerns. The scaling of the VP30 is just not as sharp as the Lumagen. The lumagen is just much cleaner. It also defintely clean up some mosquito noise at the same time! I understand that the 10-bit Non Linear Scaling has not been added to the VP30 and will be very soon? Will this add that last bit of sharpness to the VP30? On the mosquito noise, will the 10bit NLS help or we need to wait for the Noise Reduction solution thats coming out later from DVDO?

I understand the Non Linear Stretch is also on the todo list. Is it still "3 months" away? Need some quick answers as the World Cup is almost here! :p

Oliver

I understand that the 10-bit Non Linear Scaling has not been added to the VP30 and will be very soon? Will this add that last bit of sharpness to the VP30? On the mosquito noise, will the 10bit NLS help or we need to wait for the Noise Reduction solution thats coming out later from DVDO?


NLS is a way of stretching 4x3 content to fit on 16x9 screens: the middle parts aren't stretched very much, while the outsides are stretched a lot. I don't think it will help with scaling sharpness or noise.

--Andre

NLS is a way of stretching 4x3 content to fit on 16x9 screens: the middle parts aren't stretched very much, while the outsides are stretched a lot. I don't think it will help with scaling sharpness or noise.

--Andre

I would have thought that would be called non linear stretching? Or is DVDO calling it non linear scaling - To stretch 4:3 to fit 16:9 screen non linearly?

Oliver

I so far have liked the added boost the 102 card has added. I would highly suggest this card to any VP30 owners...

The basic problem with all this stuff is that each brand/model does somethings better than some other brand model.

All I would do by listing that some thing like the ABT102 is superior in SD deinterlacing to everything else out there but that the DVDO processor is not as sharp a scaler and is less good at HD deinterlacing than any Reata, Gennun based processor out there etc etc would be to piss all the manufacturers off.

Will it ever exist? The best SD and HD deinterlacing/scaling with all the needed features etc. I doubt it. Pick your poison or wait until the next model. Or just say there is nothing better than the Realta for SD deinterlacing. Not.

The basic problem with all this stuff is that each brand/model does somethings better than some other brand model.

All I would do by listing that things like the ABT102 is superior inSD deinterlacing than everything else out there but that the DVDO processor is not as sharp a scaler and is less good at HD deinterlacing than any Reata, Gennun based processor out there would be to piss all the manufacturers off listing what each particular one does worse than a competitor.

Will it ever exist? The best SD and HD deinterlacing/scaling with all the needed features etc. I doubt it. Pick your poison or wait until the next model. Or jusdt say there is nothing better than the Realta for SD deinterlacing. Not.

Isnt that what forums are for? To list ones views on what they see or hear? Again I am sure everyone knows that what is poor today may be good the next day or a firmware away. If we do not tell the manufacturers what they could do better, how would they know? What I can say that DVDO has done fantastically is to offer the ABT102 upgrade for a existing product at such a low cost upgrade. My question on the scaling capability of the VP30 if it is already 10bit or will be upgraded to 10bit soon is a valid question for a to be owner of the unit.

Oliver

That is a good question...

VP30 scaling should already be at 10bit, at least according to the DVDO homepage.

Just had a chance to have a look between the VP30+ABT102 and a Lumagen HDP/Vantage. I have to say that the deinterlacing powess of the ABT102 is fantastic. It almost does better then HQV in all the real life test in the test DVD that comes with the ABT102.

However I have a few concerns. The scaling of the VP30 is just not as sharp as the Lumagen. The lumagen is just much cleaner. It also defintely clean up some mosquito noise at the same time! I understand that the 10-bit Non Linear Scaling has not been added to the VP30 and will be very soon? Will this add that last bit of sharpness to the VP30? On the mosquito noise, will the 10bit NLS help or we need to wait for the Noise Reduction solution thats coming out later from DVDO?

I understand the Non Linear Stretch is also on the todo list. Is it still "3 months" away? Need some quick answers as the World Cup is almost here! :p

Oliver
Thanks for your comments, much welcome!

How do you rate the HQV scaling in comparison to Lumagen and VP30?

I believe the 10bit non linear scaling is already implemented in the VP30. But the non linear stretch is not there yet.

Isnt that what forums are for? To list ones views on what they see or hear? Again I am sure everyone knows that what is poor today may be good the next day or a firmware away. If we do not tell the manufacturers what they could do better, how would they know? What I can say that DVDO has done fantastically is to offer the ABT102 upgrade for a existing product at such a low cost upgrade. My question on the scaling capability of the VP30 if it is already 10bit or will be upgraded to 10bit soon is a valid question for a to be owner of the unit.

Oliver

It's almost certainly 10 bit already. There was a noticeable increase in shadow detail and whatnot when upgrading from the 8bit HD+ which is indicative of a wider path through the scaling engine. Additionally shipping a 10bit engine on a 10bit hardware platform is relatively straightforward. Shipping an NLS (Non-Linear Scaling) solution requires considerably more engineering effort.

I also noticed that DVDO seems to have dropped the NLS claim from their website. This is the right thing to do until the solution has actually shipped.

I am surprised that you find the Lumagen sharper. I had previously found the scaling in their products good, but not clearly superior to DVDOs. In fact DVDOs scaling engine generally receives more acclaims than Lumagen's, though I admit that this could just be through shrewder courting of the press.

Are your sure configuration differences weren't making the Lumagen appear sharper? Or perhaps your perceived differences aren't in the scaling engine, but in the deinterlacer. The current Lumagen models supposedly sport motion adaptive deinterlacing for HD sources. The VP30 does not. If you were testing 1080i perhaps that's the difference.

- Collin

Thanks for your comments, much welcome!

How do you rate the HQV scaling in comparison to Lumagen and VP30?

I believe the 10bit non linear scaling is already implemented in the VP30. But the non linear stretch is not there yet.

The HQV scaling is close to the Lumagen. Hard to say as I was not watching out for that at the time. We had the 3 scalers and took turns running them through SDTV source, HDMI 480i from a Pioneer DV79 to a Infocus 720p projector. The CUE correction on the Vantage & VP30 was better then the HDP.

Oliver

I am surprised that you find the Lumagen sharper. I had previously found the scaling in their products good, but not clearly superior to DVDOs. In fact DVDOs scaling engine generally receives more acclaims than Lumagen's, though I admit that this could just be through shrewder courting of the press.

Are your sure configuration differences weren't making the Lumagen appear sharper? Or perhaps your perceived differences aren't in the scaling engine, but in the deinterlacer. The current Lumagen models supposedly sport motion adaptive deinterlacing for HD sources. The VP30 does not. If you were testing 1080i perhaps that's the difference.

- Collin


As my earlier mail, we were only testing 480i and 576i as we had no HD source and took turns switching in and out the 3 scalers to the same projector leaving the scalers to do the scaling and deinterlacing. The Lumagen scaling was improved alot just earlier this year and again when they went 10bit. Images on the lumagen has a 3d pop with no edge enhancement. Makes me regret that I decided to sell it off. Anyway whats done is done. I always thought that a DVDO & Lumagen merger would have probably made us a processor we all would be happy with. The Vantage Mosquito noise reduction is superb and Lumagen scaling does indeed clean up some Mosquito noise. Somewhere inbetween the Non and Low level of the Vantage MNR feature. So thats a bonus.

Oliver

Thanks for your comments, much welcome!

How do you rate the HQV scaling in comparison to Lumagen and VP30?

I believe the 10bit non linear scaling is already implemented in the VP30. But the non linear stretch is not there yet.

Non-Linear Scaling and Non-Linear Stretch are exactly the same thing. When an image is stretch non-linearly, technically, it is the horizontal scaling which is non-linear.

The iScan VP30 has always had 10-bit scaling.

Our goal is to have Non-Linear Scaling/Stretch in Beta software by the end of May.

Non-Linear Scaling and Non-Linear Stretch are exactly the same thing. When an image is stretch non-linearly, technically, it is the horizontal scaling which is non-linear.

The iScan VP30 has always had 10-bit scaling.

Thanks for clearing this up. I think most of us got confused as this feature is usually called Non Linear Stretch by other manufacturers.

Oliver

Thanks for clearing this up. I think most of us got confused as this feature is usually called Non Linear Stretch by other manufacturers.

Oliver

Non-Linear Stretch, Panorama, Just, TheaterWide, Smart Stretch...call it what you want, they are all essentially the same thing with very slight differences.

End of May. WOW if that comes to fruition then DVDO have been busy little beavers what with the DVD, ABT 102 card AND NLS! Nice!

I too have been wondering about the scaling in the VP30. I have asked but have not received more answers to my question. See Oliverm's query below.

From Oliverm: "My question on the scaling capability of the VP30 if it is already 10bit or will be upgraded to 10bit soon is a valid question for a to be owner of the unit. "

I am curious if the VP30 uses a 2D Digital FIR. And if the VP30 does use a 2D FIR, what are the number of taps in each direction?

Also, is there such thing as a 3D FIR, one that not only takes in the horizontal and digital Y, Cb, Cr information but also temporal information, which could yield some interesting results with regards to length if time a pixel has the chroma and luma information applied to it.

Does anyone know how the VP30 does this scaling?

Thanks.

I thought it had 10 bit scaling, I was right... :)

y
Our goal is to have Non-Linear Scaling/Stretch in Beta software by the end of May.

It did take you a while does that mean it was hard to add in a flexible way ? in other words do we get some control over the amount and where ? I know ive made some remarks about having this on the website while it was not included good to see that removing it from the website didn't mean you forgot about it.

Just watched some movies and concert video's and the new card is a keeper until the next upgrade ofcourse....

Great work guys,

Daniel.

Bravo DVDO. You take your lumps when the criticism flies, and you make believers of those who doubt DVDO's commitment to excellence. Your ABT102 upgrade is stellar especially considering its price to value, and now we can look forward to Non Linear Stretch. Tremendous. As a new DVDO customer, I have to say that you guys never quit pleasantly surprising your customer base. Again, Bravo.

End of May. WOW if that comes to fruition then DVDO have been busy little beavers what with the DVD, ABT 102 card AND NLS! Nice!

And....that is not all we will have this month! :D

And....that is not all we will have this month! :D

Josh,

THIS month? As in May? As in more toys from DVDO? Or better yet, more toys for the VP30?

Andy

THIS month? As in May? As in more toys from DVDO? Or better yet, more toys for the VP30?

Yes!

Yes!

Sweetness. :cool:

Is one of the toys a version of the software that does not drop out on hdmi connections (audio and video). With my two DVR's the VP30 seems to loose all communications with it if it is not the selected unit when the VP30 is placed in standby. It then requires a power cycle to bring back recognition that there is a signal on that input..

PS I got my ABT102 today. Will probably install it this weekend. Other things keeping me busy, and I watch very little SD television.

Can someone please explain what non linear stretch is? Also, I have no audio using HDMI coming from a Comcast Motorola DVR box to the VP30 back into my Pioneer 1130 Plasma. Has anyone had similar experiences?

Thanks...

In a linear (horizontal) stretch a 4:3 image is stretched uniformly in the horizontal direction to fill a 16x9 screen. It makes everybody look fat wherever they are standing.

In a non linear (horizontal) stretch more stretch is applied to ends (left and right) of the 4:3 image as opposed to the center. This makes people in the center look more or less normal, while those on the edges look even fatter. However, most of the action on the screen is in the center, so overall it looks better!

I suspect there is either a HDMI handshaking problem, or there is truly no signal on the HDMI cable coming out of the comcast.

And....that is not all we will have this month! :D


Sweet! My unit is on a plane somewhere! :p

Oliver

Josh,
Or better yet, more toys for the VP30?
Andy

Boy I hope it's the later and more stuff for our VP30s. I got the ABT102 today but didn't want to mess up my unit before my wife watches CSI. :)

Same here. Did not want to pull the unit out to install ABT102 until the tv season finale's are over.

I think I know what's coming (educated guess based on most common request list...).

I have a bit of a problem with SDI on the VP30. I have posted this in the appropriate Opp with SDI thread, but am hoping that the collective wisdom in this thread might be able to shed some light on my problem.

Here's a copy of what was posted:


OK fellas. I've done the deed and SDI'ed the Oppo 971H with the Pixel Magic board.

But, I'm having some trouble. Everything works fine at 60Hz (NTSC), but NOT at 50Hz (PAL).

Here's what I did in detail.

Fitted the board as per instructions by our French friend. Kept all leads the same length etc etc.

Tested it out an still works perfectly on DVI at 50 and 60Hz. Used DVE DVD as my test DVD.

With the latest Oppo FW, Feb 06, the Oppo switches itself automatically to suit the DVD, and as my DVE is 50Hz, it switches itself to that frame rate.

At 50Hz though, I get what could best be called gross combing. Switching the Oppo to run at 60Hz on the same DVD, gives a smooth picture, although of course frame rate converted.

I also went back several versions of the Oppo FW, but all give the same result.

Quality at 60Hz is better than DVI, sharper and slightly less noise. So, the SDI mod was worth it as far as PQ is concerned. But I need to solve the 50Hz problem, otherwise it's not a goer for me.

Anyone got any ideas?

BTW, I'm feeding the SDI and DVI through the iScan VP30. It's the first time I've used the SDI input and I have no other device that I can test the VP30 with.

P.S. I did try both Video 1 and Video 2 options on the Oppo, but both behave the same way. I do get a picture out of both options, unlike some posters who say they can only get SDI when Video 1 is selected.

I've just updated to V1.07 in the hope that it might have solved the problem, but alas no.

I think I know what's coming (educated guess based on most common request list...).


Please enlighten us since it is a guess :p

Oliver

What is your guess?

hai,

Well what alot of people asked for was gamma correction per input....

Daniel.

I have a bit of a problem with SDI on the VP30. I have posted this in the appropriate Opp with SDI thread, but am hoping that the collective wisdom in this thread might be able to shed some light on my problem.

Hi Phil,
Just read the other thread. :(

Alas this seems to be a common issue, I spent a lot of time following various OPPO SDI threads and contacting a few pro moders and it seems that the DVDO SDI input is very particular about non standard SDI timings.

The best I've seen is working NTSC and intermitant PAL, which appears to be where you've got to.

Most annoying as I had my eye on the OPPO. :(

Lumagen users where having simular issues and several moders have basicly said it seems to work except for PAL on SiI504 based scalers. Might be worth doing that comparison test with the other down under dude on the OPPO SDI thread in case his player does work. Also worth while trying it with the ABT102 card installed in case it is related to the SiI504's input tolerance (not holding my breath on that one ;) ). Not seen anyone try that yet and I'd be very interested in hearing if you get something working!

At the moment I'm giving up on SDI (luckly not bought the card yet) as I don't want to spend too much on another DVD player when HDDVD/BD is just about here. Still considering a slim SD HDMI player like Oppo 970 or Pio 490 thou.

Hi Phil,
Just read the other thread. :(

Alas this seems to be a common issue, I spent a lot of time following various OPPO SDI threads and contacting a few pro moders and it seems that the DVDO SDI input is very particular about non standard SDI timings.

Thanks Ailean. My thought exactly on hoping that the ABT102 might solve the problem. What swayed me to try the Pixel Magic card with the Oppo was that one poster who did exactly the same mod, said he had it working perfectly with PAL on his HD+. I would have thought that the circuitry between the VP30 and HD+ in regards to the SDI part of it would have been the same. Perhaps Josh of DVDO could verify this. It would help knowing if it were or not. If the circuirty is different, I would stop wasting my time in trying to get it going. Have done just about all wrt cabling and termination that I can think off.

Thanks Ailean. My thought exactly on hoping that the ABT102 might solve the problem. What swayed me to try the Pixel Magic card with the Oppo was that one poster who did exactly the same mod, said he had it working perfectly with PAL on his HD+. I would have thought that the circuitry between the VP30 and HD+ in regards to the SDI part of it would have been the same. Perhaps Josh of DVDO could verify this. It would help knowing if it were or not. If the circuirty is different, I would stop wasting my time in trying to get it going. Have done just about all wrt cabling and termination that I can think off.

I've not kept up on the issue for a month or two so not spotted the HD+ success. There was a bit of jumping for joy when they got it to work at all on an iScan but then turned out they'd only used NTSC. I think they had to change the mod a bit, shorten the wires, make sure they were equal length and move the tap points closer to the mpeg decoder.

The SDI card is identical between the HD+ & VP30, they both use the SiI504 and I believe the issue is before the SiI504 output. I've no idea how the signal gets from the SDI card to the SiI504 thou, I guessed it's in a SDIish format? :confused:

The fault is certainly in the MK decoder (non standard sdi timings) it's just luck if your scaler can lock/work with it or not, I don't think anyone from DVDO has stated what's happening from there end and if there was anything they could adjust to help, which is a shame as it's such a popular SDI player. :(

I'm sure if the US was also PAL based it would be sorted by now. :D

My Oppos SDI does not work in NTSC or PAL into the DVDO VP30 BUT does work fine elsewhere. The mod is well done and short wires. I have tried various Oppo timing firmwares but it makes no difference. I might try a reclocking SDI box shortly. The Oppo appears to be a player 'on the limit' and not the easiest tpo get 'working'.

I think I know what's coming (educated guess based on most common request list...).

No offense intended, but a post such as this is pointless and only calls for others to speculate. This usually leads to unsubstantiated rumor being taken as fact by some and then the word spreads, leading to inaccurately high expectations and potential disappointment. Already a couple of posts have asked for your "guess". And if that's all it is and not giving up any NDA or similarly restricted info - why the guessing game? Just say it or don't post it. Posting it serves no purpose except to excite the natives - especially if you can't or won't explain. Sorry, but I see so many of these "I know or have a good idea on this, but won't say more". It's nothing more than a tease or a statement of an insider wanting to appear "in the know" (whether he is or not). Bottom line, it's useless.

I am also having occasional issues with SDI (sync losses).

Never had a problem with flipped fields (although that is the sort of problem I think you're having now).

My SDI is perfect, no issues at all

regarding the scaling of the VP30, there is no way anyones scaling could be cleaner crisper and more detailed than DVDO's 10bit version on the VP30, I have recently been using the VP30 on my new Display, a NEC XG1352, this thing even gets better than you can imagine when you step up to a ultra high resolution projection system, which makes your source show it's true mustard

at 1.5x from a 82" wide 2.35:1 screen DVD's are a real knockout(and I basically think DVD's suck), the 2.35:1 setup on the DVDO is amazing, the combo of the 10 bit scaling and the ABT102 is nothing less than 100% jaw dropping

the VP30 doesn't do HD deinterlacing perfect, but believe me, that is it ;)

-Gary

I'm using an SDI-modded Denon 2900 (by JVB) into a VP30. I don't see any problems with PAL DVDs before or after ABT102, with 1.05 or 1.07. I mostly watch PAL DVDs on my system these days.

--Andre

I've never had any problems with a SDI'ed 5900 with both the HD+ and the VP30 using discs from all over the world including the UK, France, Spain, Germany and Italy. JVB Digital did the modification. Sounds like it might be a problem with the Oppo player.

Stupid question (stupid because I should know this by now):

-What would be the best Output Level setting for me, with a 42" plasma display (three years old), Video or PC?

The manual doesn't really clarify it much, other than saying that Video is 16-235 and PC is 0-255.

Which probably explains why it seems that when I choose PC level, the image is a little darker, has more contrast, and is overall a little less 'anaemic' than if I choose Video.

Is this a setting I should choose based on my personal taste? Or is there a more technical reason for choosing one or the other? Based on my very limited knowledge, the PC setting of 0-255 should give me the best contrast and brightness ratios out of my display. You know; give me the full range. Then again I could choose Video and adjust the settings to boost contrast etc. a little to a perceived same level as the PC level.
Why should I choose Video (as it seems to be more 'pale')?

Any thoughts?

Gary. Not to pick on you my friend nor the VP30, but scaling can INDEED be better than what the latest VP30 can do, which BTW does a very good job at scaling. The best? Cleaner and crisper, there ceratinly are. What it may do the best right now is SD deinterlacing even over what the Realta and Gennum can do.

Mark, what has better scaling ??(based 100% on film 480i DVD) I would be interested to see it ?? I have seen lots of stuff and the VP30 is the top in my book, I have not seen everything though ;)

-Gary

My Oppos SDI does not work in NTSC or PAL into the DVDO VP30 BUT does work fine elsewhere. The mod is well done and short wires. I have tried various Oppo timing firmwares but it makes no difference. I might try a reclocking SDI box shortly. The Oppo appears to be a player 'on the limit' and not the easiest tpo get 'working'.
Thanks for your feedback and that of others. It's frustrating to see how good the SDI is out of the Oppo at 60Hz, yet not being able to get it to work at 50Hz(PAL).

I'm hoping that the ABT102 may give it all a chance again, but that depends heavily on whether the VP30 (and HD+) SDI card lets an non-standard signal stream through and does not malfunction with it, and of course if the ABT102 can do any better with it.

I'd be very interested to see how you go with your proposed reclocking SDI box. Please send me a PM and let me know ho you fare with that.

My Oppos SDI does not work in NTSC or PAL into the DVDO VP30 BUT does work fine elsewhere. The mod is well done and short wires. I have tried various Oppo timing firmwares but it makes no difference. I might try a reclocking SDI box shortly. The Oppo appears to be a player 'on the limit' and not the easiest tpo get 'working'.

I got my Oppo mod done by JVB and it works perfectly with the VP30. I view NTSC
primarily, so can't comment on how it works with PAL material.

Gary. So what you are observing is first deinterlacing of film to 480p and then scaling to whatever p you are pumping into your FP 9inch CRT. Assuming you do not have the ABT102 card yet, you are using the Sil504 for deinterlacing of 480i film. The Sil does do a nice job of 480i film deinterlacing. It does suck for 480i video deinterlacing.

In my opinion, the latest Lumagens which also use the Sil504 for 480i deinterlacing, does a slightly better job of scaling the 480p up tp 720p and even higher. It is a little sharper and crisper in my opinion.

It is interesting that in the new Radiance, Lumagen will only uses the deinterlacing capabilities of the Realta chip and will continue to use its scaling algs loaded into a gated chip.

Like I say, the DVDO does a very good job of scaling. Just not the best. We are talking small increments of superiority here. :)

In a linear (horizontal) stretch a 4:3 image is stretched uniformly in the horizontal direction to fill a 16x9 screen. It makes everybody look fat wherever they are standing.

In a non linear (horizontal) stretch more stretch is applied to ends (left and right) of the 4:3 image as opposed to the center. This makes people in the center look more or less normal, while those on the edges look even fatter. However, most of the action on the screen is in the center, so overall it looks better!

I suspect there is either a HDMI handshaking problem, or there is truly no signal on the HDMI cable coming out of the comcast.

Thanks, I forgot to mention the Comcast box passes audio via HDMI when it is connected directly to my Pioneer plasma. I would have to assume it is a handshaking problem with the VP 30.

Oppo, HD-A1 or VP-30?

When playing 1.78:1 anamorphic movie DVD's, using my Oppo DVD player's 480i SDI out -> to VP30 -> 720P-60 HDMI/DVI -> to Marantz VP-12S2 projector, there is a visible underscan, a quarter inch black bar on the bottom of my 110" screen. This does not happen when using the Toshiba HD-A1 -> 1080i HDMI out to VP30 -> 720P-60 HDMI/DVI to Marantz VP12S2 projector (Full 1.78:1 (16x9) screen is viewed).

When Both the SDI and/or HDMI inputs are selected in the VP30, the Input Aspect Ratio presets are 16:9, Output Format 720P-60 and output aspect Ratio 16:9 / 1.78:1.

Though it is slight (.25"), is this an underscan problem with the Oppo's SDI output?

Paul

Paul H - Have you tried to adjust the 'Line Offset' in the 'Input Adjust' menu when you are on the SDI input?

Paul H - Have you tried to adjust the 'Line Offset' in the 'Input Adjust' menu when you are on the SDI input?
Josh,

Just checked the 'Line Offset' when in the SDI input and it was @ 0. Too bad it doesn't go to -1. :rolleyes:

Paul

Just a bit of feedback on Vs 1.07 FW. So far, I've noticed no audio dropouts, but I still get the total loss of audio when I switch between PCM and DD sources. Once this happens, I need to switch to a stereo audio source, which then brings sound back. After that I can switch back to either PCM od DD sources and can switch between them for a while. It's not long though, that switching between them will again cause a total audio loss.

I also still get the occassional total loss or dropout (black screen) of video. Tonight I lost it on a component source for about 2 seconds. Rewound the scene and there was no dropout so this is still a problem. When this happens, the sound ironically doesn't drop out. I have no HDMI/HDCP sources at all, nor is my display HDCP equiped, so none of this can be put down to HDCP interoperability problems.

I received my DV 9600 DVD player yesterday and ran it through a VP 30 at 480i over the HDMI output. Man it is hard to belive that SD DVD can looks so good. The VP 30 I am using is on loan from my dealer until mine comes in. It doesn't have the ABT 102 in it. How much better can it get with the ABT?

Just a bit of feedback on Vs 1.07 FW. So far, I've noticed no audio dropouts, but I still get the total loss of audio when I switch between PCM and DD sources. Once this happens, I need to switch to a stereo audio source, which then brings sound back. After that I can switch back to either PCM od DD sources and can switch between them for a while. It's not long though, that switching between them will again cause a total audio loss.
.

I believe I'm experiencing the same thing with 1.07. While watching my HD Tivo I've lost audio when changing channels (when I increase the volume I hear motorboating). This occured twice last night within 30 minutes. I had to unplug the VP30 to resolve this. This did not occur with 1.05. My HD Tivo is connected via HDMI.

How much better can it get with the ABT?

It can get that much better. It was like watching almost hd. Almost.

It is WELL worth it IMHO

ed

My post was 'lost' on the previous page, I see.

Anyone care to explain what I asked about PC and Video levels?

Gee, and I said I wouldn't disagree with anyone - ;) - just so folks will not get their hopes up for nothing, with my setup (980 Ultra, 10' wide 16x9 screen) the ABT helps. Period. It is nice. It is nowhere near the "virtual 720p" some posters are seeing. Not on my system with my pj. YMMV. I put on some of my worst dvd videos - it was a touch better than the Dcdi in my Denon 1600 - but I would actually have to put in and view the scenes on the ABT dvd to be able to quantify a difference.

Best I could say, if you don't have Dcdi, it will make dvds that are video look better. Maybe a lot better, depending on the quality of your deinterlacer. What you will see is that a good, high bandwidth SD tv broadcast will now approach the quality of an average dvd. Which ain't all bad. :)

Still well worth it - but if you are expecting it to look "almost" like HD, a lot will depend on your definition of "almost."

When playing 1.78:1 anamorphic movie DVD's, using my Oppo DVD player's 480i SDI out -> to VP30 -> 720P-60 HDMI/DVI -> to Marantz VP-12S2 projector, there is a visible underscan, a quarter inch black bar on the bottom of my 110" screen. This does not happen when using the Toshiba HD-A1 -> 1080i HDMI out to VP30 -> 720P-60 HDMI/DVI to Marantz VP12S2 projector (Full 1.78:1 (16x9) screen is viewed).

When Both the SDI and/or HDMI inputs are selected in the VP30, the Input Aspect Ratio presets are 16:9, Output Format 720P-60 and output aspect Ratio 16:9 / 1.78:1.

Though it is slight (.25"), is this an underscan problem with the Oppo's SDI output?

The Oppo has a known underscanning issue using any output. You should be seeing small bars on all 4 sides of the frame, not just the bottom, though.

Also note that the underscanning is worse on the Oppo splash screen than on actual movie content.

Just a bit of feedback on Vs 1.07 FW. So far, I've noticed no audio dropouts, but I still get the total loss of audio when I switch between PCM and DD sources. Once this happens, I need to switch to a stereo audio source, which then brings sound back. After that I can switch back to either PCM od DD sources and can switch between them for a while. It's not long though, that switching between them will again cause a total audio loss.

I also still get the occassional total loss or dropout (black screen) of video. Tonight I lost it on a component source for about 2 seconds. Rewound the scene and there was no dropout so this is still a problem. When this happens, the sound ironically doesn't drop out. I have no HDMI/HDCP sources at all, nor is my display HDCP equiped, so none of this can be put down to HDCP interoperability problems.

With 1.07 I still get audio dropouts. They are however of a much shorter duration than on previous firmwares. It is as if the faster format detection has sped up the audio dropout recovery. The dropouts are really getting tiresome. If I can run any sort of debugging firmware or anything to help isolate this problem I'd be happy to.

I get the DD / PCM complete silence issue using the HD Tivo though I've had that problem going back to the HD+. I've never had a DD / PCM problem from a DVD player or LD. Most evidence points to this being a Tivo problem, though it would be nice if DVDO could work around it. This problem actually doesn't bug me much. I just turned of DD output from the Tivo. I realize some folks are much bigger fans of TV programming than I am and aren't willing to loose DD.

I have never had a problem with video, HDMI hand shaking, input loss, etc. with the VP30. I did however have some HDMI handshake problems with the HD+. The VP30 is an improvement in this regard.

- Collin

My post was 'lost' on the previous page, I see.

Anyone care to explain what I asked about PC and Video levels?

You want to feed your display video levels. It seems counter-intuitive at first to use a more limited visible range, but you are trying to emulate the mastering monitors that the professionals use. Those monitors are CRT based and have a roll off at the top and bottom end. By using video levels you are emulating that roll off on a digital device that would otherwise have hard clipping points if fed PC levels.

- Collin

Thanks for the explanation. Still not sure I totally 'get it', but I'll trust you guys. :)

John,

To further understand the reasoning there is a masterful post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606) that really explains the difference between PC levels and video levels.

Can someone confirm for me that audio can be successfully passed through HDMI with no issues? Most of the audio problems I have read about seem to be related to the optical and coax inputs.

Thanks!

Bill

John P - if nothing else, you can prove it to yourself - put up a grayscale - either off Avia, DVE, or just grab the one off any dvd with the THX Optimizer - switch between video and pc levels, and look for crush (lack of distinction between adjoining levels) on either end of the bar.

The Oppo has a known underscanning issue using any output. You should be seeing small bars on all 4 sides of the frame, not just the bottom, though.

Also note that the underscanning is worse on the Oppo splash screen than on actual movie content.Thanks Josh Z, for the heads-up!

It's good to know that I'm not doing something to cause this. :)

Paul

I don't know if anyone has this problem at all but I'll have a go at explaining it, excuse my ignorance if it has been mentioned before..

I have a 32" CRT TV with 480i/576i component inputs and I use the Denon 3910 here in the UK, and via the VP30 and a HDMI cable i have connected a Panasonic AE700 LCD projector to the DVD as well.


I sometimes use the tv with the DVD which is connected via the component switch on the Denon 3805 (and other stuff like the xbox 360), which in turn has been connected to the VP30 via a component splitter.

When I run the Denon DVD player via the component in 480i/576i mode to the projector I get picture and audio freezes every 4 or so seconds for a second contiually, but if I disconnect the HDMI connection on the back of the DVD player the video and audio is fine. I reconnect and the same freezing happens.
I have been round the options and tryed changing them on the VP30 like HDMI options but to no avail, could it be the VP does not like the HDMI of a sourse active while using the component input of that sourse at the same time? :confused:

I know it looks complicated but I hope it's clear enough, just to mention this has happenened since VP30. rev 1.0 through to the 1.07 that it is now at. I was hoping to try the component connection out to check the interlased outputs of the DVD player as the HDMI only does progressive output before I install the ABT102D card, I got yesterday. ;)

When I run the Denon DVD player via the component in 480i/576i mode to the projector I get picture and audio freezes every 4 or so seconds for a second contiually, but if I disconnect the HDMI connection on the back of the DVD player the video and audio is fine. I reconnect and the same freezing happens.



The audio/video freeze is exactly what happened to me. I had component and HDMI connected to my DVD player so I could compare picture quality after installing the ABT102. My freezes would last up to 30 seconds or so. Currently, I'm having HDMI handshake problems when watching TV with the feed out of a DirecTV H10. The curtain closes and the only way I get video back is to turn off the VP30, pull out and reinstall the HDMI cable. A VP30 reset does not fix the problem. I'm also experiencing frequent audio loss from all feeds.

The VP30 is a great box and the ABT102 is a good upgrade, but the audio/video problems are becomming very tiresome. Hopefully, the next software release will remedy some of these issues.

Can someone confirm for me that audio can be successfully passed through HDMI with no issues? Most of the audio problems I have read about seem to be related to the optical and coax inputs.
Success with HDMI audio seems to depend a lot on what you are connecting by HDMI. There is a known problem with the Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player only passing 2 channel PCM over HDMI after firmware 1.0, but this is a problem with the DVD player, not the VP30. I currently have an issue with 5.1 channel PCM from a Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player (high pitched whine), but I don't know if it is due to the player, the VP30, or my Yamaha receiver. My JVC D-VHS deck has no problems over HDMI. When I was running firmware 1.0 I occasionally got no audio or motorboat sounds, but unplugging the player always cleared it. I haven't experienced either of these with 1.07 yet, but don't have many hours on it.

The audio/video freeze is exactly what happened to me. I had component and HDMI connected to my DVD player so I could compare picture quality after installing the ABT102. My freezes would last up to 30 seconds or so. Currently, I'm having HDMI handshake problems when watching TV with the feed out of a DirecTV H10. The curtain closes and the only way I get video back is to turn off the VP30, pull out and reinstall the HDMI cable. A VP30 reset does not fix the problem. I'm also experiencing frequent audio loss from all feeds.

The VP30 is a great box and the ABT102 is a good upgrade, but the audio/video problems are becomming very tiresome. Hopefully, the next software release will remedy some of these issues.

Yup, the VP30 is certainly a great box of tricks but as you say there's a big glitch when it comes to dropouts, I just wonder what the common factor here is, but mine only freezes for 1 second, maybe that’s just the case because it’s a Denon as opposed to a Sony? I have installed the ABT102 card now and do see the difference it makes, and at least gives you the various options.

I would have to make do with the 720p output straight through the VP30. Otherwise the VP30 does seem to work for me flawlessly.

Initially I tried routing all audio and video from three sources (STB, DVD and VCR) to the VP30 thence a Yamaha receiver and finally to the display, but that generated drop-outs, motor boats and curtains. All those problems disappeared when I sent the audio direct to the Yamaha receiver and the video direct to the VP30 thence the display. Have no idea which device (or devices) caused the (HDCP?) problem. Now that I have those issues behind me, I have ordered the ABT102 and look forward to an even better picture.

need help pls...
I have a VP 30 with the latest ABT 102 card. I connect my VP30 via HDMI to my Pio 434's media box. the source is a TV set top box which outputs video and Analogue stereo to my VP30- connection via RCA type cables.
I could get a image from my pio but could not get any volume. Can someone help?
Also what is the best setting off the VP30 to my Pio 434? Am a newbie here. thanks

DVDO, are you still working on the HDCP handshaking issues? I hope that it gets resolved soon on my Sony HDD250.

I received my VP30 on Monday and the ABT102 on Wednesday. Last night my family watched Toy Story 2 and my wife and I did not remember seeing so much detail. We did have one audio loss last night (first one), when changing channels on our DirecTV H20 from a ESPN (720P) to CBS (1080i). Unplugging the VP30 and plugging it back in resolved it.

My real question, is about compensating for overscan in my CRT RPTV. It seems the VP30 can zoom in but not zoom out. I would like to zoom out so overscan on the TV can be compensated for.

Later,
DR

DR

under output, then aspect ratio, there is a underscan option, Enjoy!

-Gary

DR

under output, then aspect ratio, there is a underscan option, Enjoy!

-Gary

Gary,

Thanks, I knew I had read it somewhere in the manual, but I had not found again since I received the VP30. The VP30 does a good job at this. I was afraid it would not look good on 1080i, but better on 720p sources.

DR

DVDO, are you still working on the HDCP handshaking issues? I hope that it gets resolved soon on my Sony HDD250.

I hope this issue, and others, is resolved soon also. The handshaking issue is so bad today that I had to stop using HDMI between my VP30 and DirecTv H10. Curtain closed every couple of minutes and nothing I do stops it today. I'm using component until this is resolved. I also can not get the VP30 to recognize 480i from the DirecTv H10 when using HDMI or component, only s-video, which sucks. Audio dropouts are bad but more tolerable than the handshaking issues.

DVDO please fix the existing issues before throwing more code for new options into the mix.

Thanks.

Is the VP30 the problem or the H10? I have two HDTiVos, one Sony 975 DVD player and one HD DVD player connected with HDMI and I have no problems with video over HDMI with v1.07. The only problem I have is with HDMI audio from the Sony and that is the Sony DVD players fault.

I have never had a handshake problem (using 1.05 or 1.07) using HD TIVO, H20, XA-1, and JVC HM5 U)...

When do we get noise reduction or other toys or a new beta? I need a new toy :) Come on spill the beans...;)

Success with HDMI audio seems to depend a lot on what you are connecting by HDMI. There is a known problem with the Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player only passing 2 channel PCM over HDMI after firmware 1.0, but this is a problem with the DVD player, not the VP30. I currently have an issue with 5.1 channel PCM from a Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player (high pitched whine), but I don't know if it is due to the player, the VP30, or my Yamaha receiver. My JVC D-VHS deck has no problems over HDMI. When I was running firmware 1.0 I occasionally got no audio or motorboat sounds, but unplugging the player always cleared it. I haven't experienced either of these with 1.07 yet, but don't have many hours on it.
Thanks for the response. The HD-A1 issue is the one I am particularly concerned about. I may need to just keep my Lumagen, and forget audio on this generation of VPs.

Later,
Bill

I tried to read quickly thourgh the thread. I also made a quick search, but all I could find was that 1080p passthrough was to be made possible in the form of an update. Any news since? Has it been implemented? If not, is there a time frame?

Thank you!

Jean, inputting 1080p into the VP30 and outputing in 1080p resolution from the VP30 is basically passthru, only minimal stuff will be going on, no scaling etc. or anything

does the VP30 actually even have passthru??, never even checked :)

-Gary

Gary: yes I know that. Basically, I'd like to get rid of a switch that makes my set-up all that more complex. I'd like to have all my sources conected directly to the VP30, and then to the monitor. As it stands, my HTPC outputs 1080p, so the VP30 does not accept it. I need to connect it to a DVI switch and toggle between the HTPC or the VP30. A small pain, but a pain nevertheless...

Just installed the new software and my new ABT102. Great stuff. I did notice that I need to OVERSCAN about twice (or more) as much to fill my 16:9 screen. Otherwise, there is a gap on the bottom. This seems to be a change from the last software version that I was running. Normally when I run everything on 16:9 (especially from my hdtv sat box), it would fill the screen when projected from Optoma H79 (on the native setting). The ABT102 works fantastic - easy install.... SJ

So Gary for a Ruby would you reccomend sending in 1080i or using the VP30 to send in 1080p? Just a thought...

Just installed the new software and my new ABT102. Great stuff. I did notice that I need to OVERSCAN about twice (or more) as much to fill my 16:9 screen. Otherwise, there is a gap on the bottom. This seems to be a change from the last software version that I was running. Normally when I run everything on 16:9 (especially from my hdtv sat box), it would fill the screen when projected from Optoma H79 (on the native setting). The ABT102 works fantastic - easy install.... SJ
Concur with the need to adjust for more overscan - more so on component and video inputs than the digital inputs on my setup. And agree also that Vs 1.07 leaves a bigger gap on the top an bottom than on the sides. Decided in the end to use the zoom controls in conjunction with overscan to get the picture to fit the screen properly. It's as if the aspect ratio has been changed or is now just off 16:9.

I installed the ABT 102 and so far I have been impressed with the performance. It definitely requires a adjustment to fill the 16:9 screen completely. I have an H78DC3 with an SDI OPPO 971, Pioneer Elite AV79i, and an HDTivo 10-250. What would be the best approach to filling the gaps left by the VP30 now that the ABT102 is installed. Is this something that a minor tweak from DVDO in the form of a firmware update would fix as well?

I have just the opposite problem with the ABT102. I need to apply underscan to the picture from both my HD TiVos, HD DVD player and my Sony DVD player. All through the HDMI inputs.
Actually the picture is the same size as before I put the ABT102 in. Or is this becasue I'm looking at 1080i and the ABT102 will only affect 480i in?My Sony DVD player inputs 480i over HDMI and I have the same amount of underscan set as before the ABT102 as well as my SD DirecTivo over Svideo.

This may sound like an odd question, but is there any way to shift a 2.35 AR movie down vertically to the bottom of a 16x9 screen with the VP30? I am looking into building a DIY screen with adjustable masking. I had assumed with all the controls on the VP30 I would be able to shift a 2.35 movie down to the bottom so I would only need adjustable masking on the top of the screen. But I played with it last night and could not find any way to do it. The vertical and horizontal shift controls only seem to work in certain situations. The only way I could find to do it was to use a lot of Input zoom then V shift, but this is not what I want to do. I don't want to make the image bigger, I just want to shift it down. I don't know how difficult it would be to make the VP30 do this, but I can do it with TheaterTek on my PC.

We are having audio issues over HDMI as well. This mostly happens on the Motorola DCT6412 III digital cable box, while changing channels (channel surfing) or watching a pre-recorded show or movie and fast forwarding through the commercials or to the "good" parts of a movie, audio is lost completely. Sometimes audio can be restored if you continue to fast forward and rewind a few times, but it's a lot easier and quicker to just pull the plug and do a hard boot. Our set up is: Motorola DCT6412 III to VP30 over HDMI, Pioneer DVD-LD DVL-90 to VP30 over S-Video and TOSLINK (fiber optic), Denon DVD-1920 to VP30 over HDMI, VP30 to Denon AVR-3806 over TOSLINK, and VP30 to Sony Cineza VPL-HS20 over HDMI. We have tried firmware versions 1.05 and 1.07. The audio issues seem to be worse over 1.07, but we seem to get a better picture with this version, so we run 1.07. I saw on an earlier post that said 1.08 was out, but have not seen it on DVDO's website, must have been wishful thinking :)

Hello. I've had my vp30 since April and I've had a lot of problems. The auto inout switching hardly ever works, which is inconvenient. The audio switiching has problems, sp much so that I'm probably going to stop running audio through it and be done with it. Most annoying is that sometimes, the picture just goes black in the middle of a movie for no apparent reason.

My vp30 was shipped in early April. Does anyone know if I have all the latest firmware?

I just got my ABT card and I'm not sure how easy it will be to install it. I'm new at this. Can anyone tell me if it's fairly easy?

Everyone says DVDO has great customer service, but I haven't found them to be very good. If you send them an email with multiple questions, they reply but only answer one ot two and ignore the rest.

So far, I don't think the unit is worth 2 grand. My Sony 975 upscaled to 1080i almost as well for $250. My Denon 3910 is pretty good, too, and it works every time.

It's really embarassing when you have people over to show it off and it goes blank.

This may sound like an odd question, but is there any way to shift a 2.35 AR movie down vertically to the bottom of a 16x9 screen with the VP30? I am looking into building a DIY screen with adjustable masking. I had assumed with all the controls on the VP30 I would be able to shift a 2.35 movie down to the bottom so I would only need adjustable masking on the top of the screen. But I played with it last night and could not find any way to do it. The vertical and horizontal shift controls only seem to work in certain situations. The only way I could find to do it was to use a lot of Input zoom then V shift, but this is not what I want to do. I don't want to make the image bigger, I just want to shift it down. I don't know how difficult it would be to make the VP30 do this, but I can do it with TheaterTek on my PC.
The VP30 can already do this. You need to tell the VP30 that your display has a 16:9 shaped total image, but that you only want to use a 2.35:1 shaped subset of it. You also need to specify where that 2.35:1 area is located within the 16:9 overall frame.

In the Output Setup menu, under the Aspect Ratio option, you have to define the 'Display' aspect ratio as 16:9 and the 'Screen' aspect ratio as 2.35:1. The Vertical Shift control in that menu then let's you slide the active 2.35:1 area down to the bottom (or top, for that matter) of the 16:9 screen.

If you do this a lot, you may want to create a Display Profile just for this setting.

- Dale Adams

Hello,

I've got a VP30 for a few days now. I'm satisfied with the picture quality but I've recognized two things:

1. 1080p50 is not active in the menu:
When I go in the menu to Output setup -> Format I cannot select 1080p50. I can choose all the other resolutions, f.e. 1080p60, 1080i50, 1080i60, 720p50, VGA, 1366x768 etc., (they are white), but 1080p50 is grey and I can't select it. I'm using the analog output at the moment, couldn't test it with HDMI output so far. User modus is "advanced".

2. Remote control
Sometimes I've got the impression that my VP30 isn't reacting good on remote signals from the remote control, f.e. when I want to change the zoom ratio at Input Asp. Ratio -> Zoom -> Hor. or Ver.:
When I hold the "up" or "down" key on the remote control the numbers change between 0 and 100. But often the number stops increasing or decreasing and I have to release the remote control button and hold it down again.

I would be glad to hear from other VP30 owners about their experience on this, because I'm not sure whether my VP30 might be out of order.

Regards from Germany
Ariomanus

1. 1080p50 is not active in the menu:
When I go in the menu to Output setup -> Format I cannot select 1080p50. I can choose all the other resolutions, f.e. 1080p60, 1080i50, 1080i60, 720p50, VGA, 1366x768 etc., (they are white), but 1080p50 is grey and I can't select it. I'm using the analog output at the moment, couldn't test it with HDMI output so far. User modus is "advanced".
A VP30 setup option can be disabled by the VP30's software if it would result in an operating condition which the VP30 cannot accomplish. Typically this means that the output pixel clock frequency is either too high or too low. If you have the VP30 operating such that it would produce an output frame rate over 50 Hz then the 1080p50 output will be disabled. This can happen if the output frame rate for 50 Hz sources is set to something like 75 Hz locked or 59.94 Hz unlocked, or if you're using a 60 Hz source when you try to change the output format.

This may seem counterintuitive, but it makes sense if you understand what the VP30's 1080p50 format really is. The VP30 1080p formats (as well as those for 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080i) are all compliant with the EIA/CEA-861-B specification. The 1080p50 timing dictated by this specification has the same period per line as 1080p60. There are extra clocks inserted in the horizontal front porch to make the effective line rate (and the output pixel clock rate) of 1080p at 50 Hz the same as 1080p at 60 Hz. The result of this is that trying to run the VP30's 1080p50 format with at a 60 Hz output frame rate would cause an output pixel clock higher than the VP30 can produce (which is roughly 150 MHz).

The VP30's 1080p50 format does not automatically produce a 50 Hz output frame rate. That is determined by the settings in the Output Setup menu's Frame Rate sub-menu. What choosing the 1080p50 format does do is to increase the number of pixel clocks per line to meet the 861-B specification (which is required by a number of displays). With a 60 Hz output frame rate this results in a too-high output clock rate, and so the 1080p50 format selection is disabled to prevent this.

You can get around this limitation by running with a 50 Hz source (at 50 Hz locked output or 50 Hz unlocked output) when you try selecting the 1080p50 format, or by running with a 60 Hz source with the output frame rate set to 50 Hz unlocked (or lower).

- Dale Adams

My vp30 was shipped in early April. Does anyone know if I have all the latest firmware?

Push the Info button. It will tell you the firmware version. The latest is 1.07.

I just got my ABT card and I'm not sure how easy it will be to install it. I'm new at this. Can anyone tell me if it's fairly easy?

It's very easy to install so long as you follow the (clearly written) instructions.

The VP30 can already do this. You need to tell the VP30 that your display has a 16:9 shaped total image, but that you only want to use a 2.35:1 shaped subset of it. You also need to specify where that 2.35:1 area is located within the 16:9 overall frame.

In the Output Setup menu, under the Aspect Ratio option, you have to define the 'Display' aspect ratio as 16:9 and the 'Screen' aspect ratio as 2.35:1. The Vertical Shift control in that menu then let's you slide the active 2.35:1 area down to the bottom (or top, for that matter) of the 16:9 screen.

If you do this a lot, you may want to create a Display Profile just for this setting.

- Dale Adams

Dale,

This is one of the features that I really liked when I first read the specs on the VP30. It allowed for a cheap manual/motorised velvet blind to mask the balance of a PJ's fixed 16:9 screen when the active area of a 2.35:1 image is shifted to the bottom.

Unfortunately with ver. 1.0 I couldn't get the vertical shift to work. After reading your post above I tried again and it now works with the latest update. The only problem now is that the shift setting is not being saved in the saved display profile.

I did my ABT card while I was on the phone. It was that easy. It should take between 5-8 minutes to install. Most of that determines on fast you screw... :D

Yes, the 9 screws is what takes most of the time. Actually inserting the ABT102 takes literally seconds.

Yes, the 9 screws is what takes most of the time. Actually inserting the ABT102 takes literally seconds.

The problem of all these upgrades is not the work itself but removing the cables, pulling it from the rack and putting it back in again. Installing the card and replacing the IR sensor took 5min max but the rest took atleast 30min....

Daniel.

Yes I don't like having to disconnect and reconnect components. I lost the audio over HDMI for one of my HDTiVos after the ABT102 upgrade. At first I was afraid something happened with the VP30 but it seems like my HDMI card in the HDTiVo is having problems. Considering it was made in MAY2004 with the original HDMI card I would have expected it to die awhile ago. Fortunately the video still works over HDMI, I don't think I would like going back to component inputs since I have eliminated them in my setup.

This may sound like an odd question, but is there any way to shift a 2.35 AR movie down vertically to the bottom of a 16x9 screen with the VP30? The vertical and horizontal shift controls only seem to work in certain situations. The only way I could find to do it was to use a lot of Input zoom then V shift

I've been doing this all the while. U just need to do output setup->aspect->display->16:9, screen->2.35:1, vertical shift ->70, u will shift the whole thing exactly to the bottom.

Essentially the VP30 will only output in the 2.35 area. U can do a test pattern and u can see all patterns are within that area, including geometry. And now if u select 4:3/16:9 in the input aspect, they all appear within the 2.35 screen, i.e. a poor man's constant height setup.

Cummo: just noticed ur post. In my case I think it does save on the profile, but sometimes it lost it and the shift went back to default 0. Should be a bug.

So my ABT120 is now installed (hardware upgrade very simple, software upgrade done, a bit more complicated--see below). I have two questions:

1) I tried using a Keyspan USB-to-Serial adapter w/ the Keyspan-specific driver for Windows XP (circa 2003, btw) and the update process inevitably failed. I'm a Windows newb, so maybe I missed something, but I had the whole settings/process down to the instructed specs, save 2 things: 1) I couldn't get the driver to install that was supplied by ABT on the disc that shipped w/ the 120. Windows said it wasn't for the specified hardware and refused to install over the existing Keyspan driver., and 2) I couldn't find out what transfer rate the VP30 was set at , because once I was in the transfer process and things stalled out (it would initialize the data transfer and hang at 1125 bytes, saying the 'file was corrupt' and the VP30 would need to reset--this process repeated until I switched to my Mac laptop, running XP Pro in Virtual PC, and then I successfully loaded the software update following exactly the same proceedure as on the PC [save being forced on my Toshiba PC laptop to designate the serial adapter as Com 4 for some reason]). What gives--any ideas? Seems like a driver issue, or am I wrong? I thought I'd find it easier to do the software update on my new PC versus through Windows emulation on the Mac...again, wrong.

2) Big question here. Why am I seeing nasty aliasing jaggies even after this 120 upgrade? I have two Sony DVD players (995V 400-disc juke and a RDR-GX7 DVD Recorder), both set to 480i through component (it's too bad the 995 won't do 480i through its HDMI, only 480p). I'm viewing on a Sony KDF-55XS955 LCD rear-projection (that I'm assuming should be fed a 720p signal--it looked roughly the same whether I was feeding it 720p or 1080i). I checked info on the DVDO and it sees the latest 1.07 software and reads it as a VP30/120 system (so I'm assuming all the hardware/software installed o.k.). I was viewing the ABT demo disc and was amazed to see big jaggies on all the test footage and no real discernable improvement (in regards to the touted 'edge adaptive' edge smoothing), no matter how I flipped the DVDO's settings. Sorry if this is another glaring newbie situation here, but I'd really appreciate any insights...

Thanks,
Shane

The Keyspan didn't work for me either. The drivers DVDO provides aren't for the Keyspan. I hope the next generation of DVDO VPs improves on the firmware updating process.

--Andre

Dale,

This is one of the features that I really liked when I first read the specs on the VP30. It allowed for a cheap manual/motorised velvet blind to mask the balance of a PJ's fixed 16:9 screen when the active area of a 2.35:1 image is shifted to the bottom.

Unfortunately with ver. 1.0 I couldn't get the vertical shift to work. After reading your post above I tried again and it now works with the latest update. The only problem now is that the shift setting is not being saved in the saved display profile.

I checked this tonight and saving this to a profile works ok for me on a 1.07/abt102. Not sure what your problem is. I use it the same way you do shift it down to allow for easy masking of 2.35 content. Ive used this feature ever since the HD+ got it last year and have not found a problem with it sofar (well expect at the beginning when they didn't allow us to shift it enough).

Daniel.

Shane,

Is it possible you have your DVD players set to output 4x3 instead of 16x9?

I installed the ABT 120 and the 1.07 software. I have a HD10-250, and a SA 8300HD connected via HDMI and a Denon DVD 3910 via SDI. HDTV is a Sony 34 XBR 800. Had problems figuring out how the deinterlacing card could be adjusted (it was dim) until I read the instructions (only when in doubt). When I went to the HD 10-250 at 480i the deinterlacing adjustments showed up. The cable apparently is always outputing 480i because it showed the adjustments. Both imputs were seriously letterboxed horizontically but I realize that can be adjusted. My question is a practical one. To get the benefit of the SD deinterlacing, do I have to keep switching the HD Tivo to 480i and back to 1080i for HD? I am used to leaving the imput on 1080i for everything. If the switch is needed, and I assume it is, has anyone figured out an easy way to handle the change. I have an expensive RTI universal remote. Has anyone figured a way to make the switch automatic?

To get the benefit of the SD deinterlacing, do I have to keep switching the HD Tivo to 480i and back to 1080i for HD? I am used to leaving the imput on 1080i for everything. If the switch is needed, and I assume it is, has anyone figured out an easy way to handle the change. I have an expensive RTI universal remote. Has anyone figured a way to make the switch automatic?

If it can be done, I sure haven't figured out a way. You might be able to develop macros based on the channels and do it. But who watches live TV off the HD Tivo? I have no idea how you could get it to automatically switch based on the program from the recorded list (with HD and SD intermixed) you are about to watch!

If anyone does have a solution, I'm certainly interested in hearing it, as well!

Eric

I don't have an HD Tivo, so apologies, but does the box have an option for native output? I know my LG stbs do - if your box can do native, that would solve your problem. That's what I'm doing with my 4200.

I don't have an HD Tivo, so apologies, but does the box have an option for native output? I know my LG stbs do - if your box can do native, that would solve your problem. That's what I'm doing with my 4200.

Nope, they never implemented native output.

I don't know if anyone knows what the DirecTV replacement box will do, if/when it comes out.

Sorry - over in the hd box forum I had read that LG made some of the new boxes - one could (wrongly in this case) assume that they would keep that neat feature in their rebadged D* boxes. It sure does make things work well...

Shane,

Is it possible you have your DVD players set to output 4x3 instead of 16x9?


No, I triple-quadruple checked (as well as my DVDO output--16:9/ 1:1.78), they're putting out 480i and 16:9. I also checked to make sure nothing was funky on the TV side of things (i.e, no addt'l forced scaling on that end aside from the odd resolution these Sony units have, which is always a bit suspect, but not to this degree of aliasing I'd think). I looked at the demo disc footage again on both players (primarily rope and race track) and the aliasing looks the same on both.

I'd hoped to find some answers here before diving into customer support--any ideas folks?

Shane -- are you able to get 1:1 pixel mapping? if not, your set may be processing the vp30's output and messing it all up.

I'm a bit astounded that the Sony's internal processing could rip apart the image this much, these jaggies I'm seeing are VERY pronounced when the playback is paused. Nonetheless, 'joealtus', that's a concern of mine...and it seems others have posted requests for help in determining/obtaining 1:1 procedures on Sony units similar to my KDF-55XS955 in order to work well w/ the VP30s output.

For instance, this prior post by 'kendrew':

" VP30 stalemate
Hello,

Have just got the Australian equivalent of the Sony KDF-E50A10 LCD rear projection.
Ours is the KFE50A10; with the same native 1280 X 720 (720p. 60Hz).
If anyone has worked out a procedure to obtain 1:1 match with VP30 please help. I am climbing the walls."

Anyone? Does the Sony's re-mapping indeed mean total degredation of the ABT120s processing (i.e., is this unavoidable), or is there a workaround? One thought, would an ISF tech digging into the service menus on a set like this, and/or w/ the VP30 itself, be able to do things I can't? Otherwise I'm feeling like I just invested in hardware from which I won't see any benefits...

While I'm enjoying the great scaling and the source switching, I was really looking forward to the benefits of the 120s deinterlacing. Somebody please offer a solution :0

Yay! I've successfully installed my ABT-102 card, and silver face plate! :)

-Contrary to a couple of people in this thread, I did not have to reset any settings after having installed the ABT-102, and nothing looks different from before (except image quality). Geometry is like before.

The image quality change is subtle, but very noticeable on a good digital cable signal (I have verified that the VP30 is fed an interlaced signal, and ABT102 shows up on the info page). I was immediately a little disappointed after having read "almost HD" comments here, as the first channel I switched to is rather low quality with washed out colors etc. But when I switched to a good quality channel, the difference from before was more evident.

I do think though, that this is the kind of change that is more noticed when you stop using the ABT102 card, than when you start using it.

It's also a bit early to tell, since I've just turned on the TV after having put the unit back into my system. So maybe I'll post more impressions after a while.

Having watched a bit more now, I can say that the image is much cleaner now than before the upgrade. It's like whiping off a coat of dust. In addition of course to the lack of jaggies etc. Happy so far! :)

Oh - a nice side effect of installing the silver face plate, was that the new IR sensor lens came with it (I think). At least I'm pretty sure of it, because the remote seems more responsive from an angle now than with the original face plate.

Thanks, DVDO. :)

For maximum HD DVD film resolution on a 110" screen, what would be the VP30's best HDMI format output to use going to a Ruby?

1080i HDMI input to the VP30 is from a Toshiba A-1.

Paul

I was immediately a little disappointed after having read "almost HD" comments here, as the first channel I switched to is rather low quality with washed out colors etc. But when I switched to a good quality channel, the difference from before was more evident.
I said that ABT102's 576p 'video source' output is almost indistinguishable from 720p on my 1366x768 plasma this is almost certainly the case, especially with a high bit-rate channel; but it's not 1080 "HD". 480p 'video sourced' output isn't quite smooth as 576p though.

Still think ABT102 is superb upgrade and really does wonders for deinterlacing broadcast digital SD television.

StooMonster

I said that ABT102's 576p 'video source' output is almost indistinguishable from 720p on my 1366x768 plasma this is almost certainly the case, especially with a high bit-rate channel; but it's not 1080 "HD". 480p 'video sourced' output isn't quite smooth as 576p though.

Still think ABT102 is superb upgrade and really does wonders for deinterlacing broadcast digital SD television.

StooMonster

That was a very early impression I had. The more I watch, the more impressed I get. :)

I do live in PAL land, btw. (I only have an SD panel plasma though).

Glad ABT102 works just as well up in Norway as it does in UK, which I know is in PAL land as I've worked there many times over the years. :) But I always mention 480/NTSC stuff when I post over here to keep the natives happy. ;)

StooMonster

Josh,

Still waiting to hear about Smart Stretch... Anytime soon?

bradesp

and, any news on the availability of 1.08 - hopefully with the audio fixes.

and, any news on the availability of 1.08 - hopefully with the audio fixes.

C'mon Pete - that isn't V1.08, that would be 2.74 :D Released right after the VP-90, and the add on noise cards and HD deinterlacing cards.

Good one... :D

For maximum HD DVD film resolution on a 110" screen, what would be the VP30's best HDMI format output to use going to a Ruby?

1080i HDMI input to the VP30 is from a Toshiba A-1.

Paul

You might be better off bypassing the VP30 for HD DVD to the Ruby. Deinterlacing 1080i is more for DVDO's next-gen scaler (VP50?).

I will be in the same situation come this weekend... Deciding which is better. With or without the VP30...

SInce the VP30 won't hurt the picture and it is much more conveinant going thru I will probably stick with going thru the VP30... :)

SInce the VP30 won't hurt the picture and it is much more conveinant going thru I will probably stick with going thru the VP30... :)

if the vp30 does 1080i pass-through, then yes, that seems the way to go. I only have a 720p projector so never checked out what it does with 1080i. congrats on the upcoming ruby!

Thanks! :) I really enjoyed the cross conversion (1080i to 720p) with my H79 pj. That is definitely the way to go with a 720p pj...

:) Eureka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Long live the ABT102. Now my Oppo 971H with the Pixel Magic SDI board works just magnificently at 50Hz . :). And.. no pixel cropping which apparently is an issue with the Lumagen VP.

So, not only do I now have a better de-interlacer, I now have almost the perfect SD DVD player. Looking at the test patterns on the DVE disk, it’s just so much sharper and more accurate at vertical scaling compared to the DVI output. No longer do I get the banding of the high frequency lines. They are all separated properly.

During the installation of the ABT102 board, I also replaced the lens. I thought the new lens would have some focusing properties, but it turns out that the only difference is the opaqueness of the lens – the new one is just more transparent or less opaque. This has helped me with my IR repeaters as well, as less IR signal is lost through the lens.

Off to do some more real testing now, but having now got the SDI output of the Oppo to work is a fantastic bonus.

Jeez, I need to keep my mouth shut - after bragging above about the advantages of my LG stb, sicne it will output at native rate, I have since discovered that all is not peaches and cream.

Every time I switch to a channel with a different output res, the VP30 very kindly switches its picture controls back to default -everything at 0. What a pain. So while I get to watch my SD at 480i, and take advantage of the ABT, I also get to reset my picture controls when I go from Fox to CBS to SD.

Also, my LG4200a was working for a while via DVI, but then it started to output only a funky blue and lined screen - a collection of lines and rectangles. HDCP didn't help, switched over to component output and was good to go again. I would like a VP31 - I'd gladly trade a few HDMI inputs (which only work on a random basis for me) for a couple more component inputs. And a second set of RGB/component outputs.

Thank you - but *phew*!!! -I managed to solve it! :eek:

-My poor heart... :o


I had set it to 'hardware', but still got that error.

Since I thought it was a bit early in the day to get help from 'over there', I tried a couple of things to see if I could fix the problem myself. I don't know which of these things actually fixed it:

I use PCCillin Internet Security 14 (2006), and so because of the "corrupt file" message, I turned off 'Real-time Virus Protection'. Virus scanners often cause trouble because of that.

Just to have tested it (hardware may be different), I also tried setting flow control back from 'hardware' (which I correctly had set it to) to Xon/Xoff. That caused a flow control error (overflow).

I then went back to 'hardware'.

I initially downloaded the .abt file to a folder on my Desktop, a folder I use for downloaded files so they're easy to find.
Since I got the 'corrupt file' message, I also downloaded the file again, just in case. But I now downloaded it directly to Desktop.
The reason I mention this as a possible difference, is that I used to have a digital camera that was connected via serial cable (it was from before USB was popular). Back then, I would often get errors when trying to transfer images to a folder on the Desktop, but the Desktop itself was OK.

So I tried that as well.

I also had the problem that when I pressed a button on the front panel of the VP30, I didn't have time to try and re-send the file, because by the time I reached my PC keyboard, I had gotten the error message again.

Anyway - after several atempts, I managed to throw myself across the room and press Enter before I got the error message...

And finally, as by magic, the whole process went smoothly.

Phew! I'm pale and sweaty! :eek:

I got the corrupt message and now my VP30 is fried. I now get an error message as soon as it reboots. The guy up above somehow got his file to load after getting this error. I've tried about 20 times now, to no avail, to get my file to send, but it's still error message after error message.

This whole process has been a huge pain. I purchased a USB to Serial cable at Best Buy, but it didn't fit the back of the VP30 (hard the same outside fittings as the VP30's serial port, as opposd to screws). Special ordered a cable and had it overnighted to only deal with this hassle.

It immediately goes from ABT Bootloader to Please load the .abt file now... to Loading...Failure to Data file corrupt. Check File. Press front panel button to restart. I'm not sure in what microsecond to press the "open" button to re-send the 1.07 file.

Press front panel button to restart. I'm not sure in what microsecond to press the "open" button to re-send the 1.07 file.
That's the secret - sending the file at the right time. Make sure too that you've set the flow control to hardware. I couldn't get it to restart for a while, closed down TeraTerm etc etc. But, every time you open TeraTerm, not all setup settings are retained from a previous run, so you need to recheck it every time.

That's the secret - sending the file at the right time. Make sure too that you've set the flow control to hardware. I couldn't get it to restart for a while, closed down TeraTerm etc etc. But, every time you open TeraTerm, not all setup settings are retained from a previous run, so you need to recheck it every time.

There isn't even a pause as it flips through the reboot process. Just bam bam, Please load the .abt file now, Loading, Failure Data file corrupt, Check File.

It immediately goes from ABT Bootloader to Please load the .abt file now... to Loading...Failure to Data file corrupt. Check File. Press front panel button to restart. I'm not sure in what microsecond to press the "open" button to re-send the 1.07 file.

The update process is clumsy. It's just a simple serial connection, but for some reason you must use the exact hardware and software combo DVDO describes.

Did you use the FTDI driver off DVDOs website? The newer one direct from FTDI does not work and the update will fail as you describe. Also make sure you've got hardware flow control on and CR+LF set for the line feed.

- Collin

The update process is clumsy. It's just a simple serial connection, but for some reason you must use the exact hardware and software combo DVDO describes.

Did you use the FTDI driver off DVDOs website? The newer one direct from FTDI does not work and the update will fail as you describe. Also make sure you've got hardware flow control on and CR+LF set for the line feed.

- Collin

Hardware flow control and CR+LF were set. No to the FTDI driver. That part doesn't work. I get a message that the target destination doesn't contain information, something like that. I downloaded the files off of their website for the FTDI and placed them in a folder and tried that folder, also tried the FTDI files off of the disk that came with my ABT102 card, and received the same message.

I'm going to try getting a serial to serial cable tomorrow and using an old laptop that has a serial port, but isn't the VP30 going to be stuck in this rebooting loop, regardless of how I try to send it a file?

I'm going to try getting a serial to serial cable tomorrow and using an old laptop that has a serial port, but isn't the VP30 going to be stuck in this rebooting loop, regardless of how I try to send it a file?
I don't have that problem using my old notebook with its serial port and just a straight through F to F serial cable - that is, I don't get stuck in an endless loop.

I don't have that problem using my old notebook with its serial port and just a straight through F to F serial cable - that is, I don't get stuck in an endless loop.

Heh, but my VP30 is already stuck in the endless loop because it no longer has any valid firmware. So it tries to load, can't, tells me to reboot, shake and repeat.

No to the FTDI driver. That part doesn't work. I get a message that the target destination doesn't contain information, something like that. I downloaded the files off of their website for the FTDI and placed them in a folder and tried that folder, also tried the FTDI files off of the disk that came with my ABT102 card, and received the same message.

If the FTDI driver is not installing, that's probably the problem. Does your dongle use the FTDI chipset? For some reason that's the only one that works for me.

- Collin

If the FTDI driver is not installing, that's probably the problem. Does your dongle use the FTDI chipset? For some reason that's the only one that works for me.

- Collin

No idea what chipset the dongle uses. It came with its own, non-FTDI drivers.

:) Eureka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Long live the ABT102. Now my Oppo 971H with the Pixel Magic SDI board works just magnificently at 50Hz . :). And.. no pixel cropping which apparently is an issue with the Lumagen VP.

Nice one Phil! :D

Now the question is do I go for the Pioneer 490 with 480/576i via HDMI for £109, wait for the Oppo 970 with 480/576i via HDMI for probably around the same cash or shell out for the Oppo 971 with SDI and the DVDO SDI board for ~£500. :confused:

My main goal is to get a second transport that can cope with the not so well pressed DVDs that my Denon A11 barfs at, great PQ and doesn't use up much shelf space so I've got room for HDDVD/BD decks next year.

Nice one Phil! :D

Now the question is do I go for the Pioneer 490 with 480/576i via HDMI for £109, wait for the Oppo 970 with 480/576i via HDMI for probably around the same cash or shell out for the Oppo 971 with SDI and the DVDO SDI board for ~£500. :confused:

You can still buy the ABT102 from Lenexpo for about USD150 I am told by an Aussie poster. Their website lists it much higher, but send Michael mkhain@lenexpo-electronics.com an email. You will nearly always get a much better price.

Now the question is do I go for the Pioneer 490 with 480/576i via HDMI for £109, wait for the Oppo 970 with 480/576i


My predicament exactly... :confused:

Heh, but my VP30 is already stuck in the endless loop because it no longer has any valid firmware. So it tries to load, can't, tells me to reboot, shake and repeat.
Hm.... that is the message I got when I stuffed up the transfer, but I was still able to get it to accept the data in once I had the protocol on the notebook's serial port correct. I think it retains the loading sofware in a separate memory location?

I'd love to see a picture of the silver faceplate. I heard it was coming, but hadn't seen it before.

I wonder if it improves PQ (LOL)...

I'd love to see a picture of the silver faceplate. I heard it was coming, but hadn't seen it before.

I wonder if it improves PQ (LOL)...

Maybe it will solve the audio and remote problems too... :)

I'd love to see a picture of the silver faceplate. I heard it was coming, but hadn't seen it before.

I wonder if it improves PQ (LOL)...

Just took a picture. Sorry about the quality; my camera isn't all that...

PQ isn't improved as much as I'd hoped ( ;) ), but since the new IR lens came with it, my remote is more responsive after having installed this plate.


As for the update procedure:

I used a serial to serial cable, and still had the problems I described.

Maybe I was just lucky to get it working again. What I did is described in that post, but I also attempted several times to go to "Send file..." and send the file again. Finally it worked. But I may have been lucky.

You can still buy the ABT102 from Lenexpo for about USD150 I am told by an Aussie poster. Their website lists it much higher, but send Michael mkhain@lenexpo-electronics.com an email. You will nearly always get a much better price.

Cheers Phil, luckly I managed to get the ABT102 from the local distributor at the intro price with no problems, does very nice things for my PAL broadcast & DVD sources. ;)

I've found a cheap UK price for the DVDO SDI card, this plus a modded 971 comes in at around £600 (about the cost of a HDDVD player ;) ) compared to £110-£150 for a bargin 480/576i HDMI player. Think I'll wait till next month to see if anyone manages to test out the Pio 490 or Oppo 970!

Should really first be sorting out a floor stand for my LCD and a DVI/HDMI switch/dist box so I can actually use the PJ again! :rolleyes:

Just looked through the ABT DVD.

Since I haven't seen it without the ABT102 installed, I have no idea how bad it might be without it.

Pretty much no jaggies at all on any of the tests or clips. The Montage looked really great.

I did see a few jaggies in the rope climbing section though, but not much (again - don't know how bad it would've been without the ABT102).

One question though; as soon as I hit Pause, the image is full of jaggies, on all edges. Like on the white bar which moves in a circular motion (and any other test).

Not really a problem, as I don't tend to sit there and watch paused video/film...

But I was just wondering what causes it?
Could it be that the Panasonic automatically enables it's own deinterlacer as soon as I hit Pause? Guess I could check the VP30 Info screen while pausing.

Nope, that's not it. Info screen still says 480i in when paused.


Some system info:
Cheap Panasonic S295 outputting (in this case) 480i over component (bought this cheap player 'on purpose', just to have something to play DVDs on until HD players arrive).
852x480 plasma panel, 1:1 pixel mapping from VP30.
HDMI to DVI-D from VP30 directly to panel.
VP30 set to 60 Locked for NTSC sources (most video/film is in PAL here, but the ABT102 DVD is in NTSC, so).

One question though; as soon as I hit Pause, the image is full of jaggies, on all edges. Like on the white bar which moves in a circular motion (and any other test).

I believe this is because deinterlacing is typically done across multilple fields (2-5) to figure out what to do and when you hit pause on most devices it outputs only a single field so there's not enough info to deinterlace.

I think one of my LD players actually outputs a whole frame (2 fields) when paused but that's about the only thing I've got that does.

Heh, but my VP30 is already stuck in the endless loop because it no longer has any valid firmware. So it tries to load, can't, tells me to reboot, shake and repeat.
Just one final thought here. Vs 1.05+ defaults to 19200 baud. Teraterm defaults to 57600 baud. Did you remember to match the baud rates? I usually up the baud rate to 57600 on the VP30 before I select the FW upgrade menu to speed the transfer up, but this may not work reliably with all serial ports.

It seems like many have already received the vp30 IR lens replacement. Is DVDO including the lens replacement with the abt102 orders? I've written to DVDO twice last week about the lens with no reply.

Has anyone received the lens with the abt102?

One question though; as soon as I hit Pause, the image is full of jaggies, on all edges. Like on the white bar which moves in a circular motion (and any other test).

Not really a problem, as I don't tend to sit there and watch paused video/film...

But I was just wondering what causes it?
Could it be that the Panasonic automatically enables it's own deinterlacer as soon as I hit Pause? Guess I could check the VP30 Info screen while pausing.

Nope, that's not it. Info screen still says 480i in when paused.


Don't worry about it. It depends on what its sending while in pause not all of them send the same info (for example only 1 field) then others. I hope i remember it correctly :)

Daniel.

It seems like many have already received the vp30 IR lens replacement. Is DVDO including the lens replacement with the abt102 orders? I've written to DVDO twice last week about the lens with no reply.

Has anyone received the lens with the abt102?

No its just a good time to ask and install it *grin* i bet most didn't pick it from their dealer until now and removing it from the rack and opening makes for a good moment to fix this. I and others probably use a ir extender anyway.

Daniel.

John P,

Looks great!

Tom in OH,

Give DVDO a ring, they sent mine in an envelope without any prior notification, they might not have your address properly or something.

malachai - I think you'll be ok, once you get your serial to serial cable, and get the tera term settings correct. I tried to transfer without the Hardware and other settings correct - got same, error, same loop, and was unable to do any kind of reset.

Once I broke down, RTFM, and set the tera term protocols correctly, hit SEND file, everything worked out fine. But I have only done this serial to serial - never tried with a USB, thank heaven. I even got the same warnings as you - corrupt file, etc. Once you disconnect and start over, with the right settings - and you do have to go in and reset them EVERY time you open tera term - you should be fine.

DVD players have two types of pause, field and frame. They usually type the type of pause to the encode type. My panasonic does allow me to override and force a frame pause, so you might look in the setup of the player.

Cheers Phil, luckly I managed to get the ABT102 from the local distributor at the intro price with no problems, does very nice things for my PAL broadcast & DVD sources. ;)

I've found a cheap UK price for the DVDO SDI card, this plus a modded 971 comes in at around £600 (about the cost of a HDDVD player ;) ) compared to £110-£150 for a bargin 480/576i HDMI player. Think I'll wait till next month to see if anyone manages to test out the Pio 490 or Oppo 970!

Should really first be sorting out a floor stand for my LCD and a DVI/HDMI switch/dist box so I can actually use the PJ again! :rolleyes:

Hi Ailean

Any chance you could tell us more about your "cheap" UK source for the SDI card?

DVD players have two types of pause, field and frame. They usually type the type of pause to the encode type. My panasonic does allow me to override and force a frame pause, so you might look in the setup of the player.

Hmm. I think I may have been running into this player pause issue as the major culprit of the jaggies I was seeing (I did mention it was primarily noticed when paused, I believe). I have to say, the graphic tests looked much better than the running footage, and the ropes were the source of the most noticable legacy aliasing...thus I would pause the player to study them, and voila. The fact that the player is probably sending only a field of info during pause and thus would wash the 120s ability to deinterlace properly would make sense.

I'll check things out again tonight. My set's lack of 1:1 mapping isn't helping, but the interlace/pause explanation most probably describes the cause of the bad jaggies I was seeing...

FOLLOW-UP: Both DVD players had selectable pause modes that did indeed impact the still/pause quality, particularly the jaggie smoothing in the source adaptive race track footage. So, that was the 'big jaggie' issue I was seeing--playback was fine (the VP30s output only being slightly worsened by the Sony set's internal pixel re-mapping), but the 120s deinterlacing was being affected by the field-based pause mode of the DVD player. Simple.

Just one final thought here. Vs 1.05+ defaults to 19200 baud. Teraterm defaults to 57600 baud. Did you remember to match the baud rates? I usually up the baud rate to 57600 on the VP30 before I select the FW upgrade menu to speed the transfer up, but this may not work reliably with all serial ports.

I did not change the baud rate on the VP30. Is that possible to change now that I'm in this endless reboot cycle?

I did not change the baud rate on the VP30. Is that possible to change now that I'm in this endless reboot cycle?

I'd be curious about that myself, as I ran into the same loop error and found no way to check the transfer rate. I only had success by pulling power to the unit, switching to my Mac/Virtual PC solution, and reinitializing the transfer. In my case, it was a serial-to-USB adapter/PC driver combo that's apparently not compatible w/ the VP30--but somehow worked off the Mac using its drivers outside the emulated Windows XP Pro shell. Odd. I hope the VP30 update process gets a workover in the near future...I got a couple of needless grey hairs on Sunday.

I did not change the baud rate on the VP30. Is that possible to change now that I'm in this endless reboot cycle?
Try changing to 19200 on Tera term to match. If it works it will take 30 mins to load but you are out of the loop

Try changing to 19200 on Tera term to match. If it works it will take 30 mins to load but you are out of the loop

I'll try that once I get a serial cable. Unfortunately, Best Buy, Radio Shack, and Office Depot (in my town) don't carry either a serial cable, or a different serial-USB cable, so I'm SOL until I can order a new cable.

Is there someway to flash the VP30 to force it back to it's original firmware?

Hi Ailean

Any chance you could tell us more about your "cheap" UK source for the SDI card?
Well I can't tell you much as I've not bought it or used them before but Easy AV (http://www.easyav.co.uk/?page=product&product=5131) have it listed for £188.

malichai,

Have you tried the Hard Resets that are listed on page 38 of the VP30 Manual?

From the manual:

1. Problem: My iScan VP30 shows an error message.
If the iScan VP30 does not boot correctly, you may get an error message. Performing a hard reset
of the iScan VP30 should clear any memory errors and reboot the unit to its factory default (480p
digital RGB 4:4:4 output). If you still get an error message after performing a hard reset, contact
our Technical support department for service.

• Perform a hard reset of the iScan VP30 unit using the remote control as follows:
1- Press the Configuration button on the remote until the Front Panel Display (FPD)
reads ‘Configuration / Factory Default’
2- Press Enter. The FPD indicates ‘No’
3- Press the up arrow. The FPD indicates ‘Yes’
4- Press Enter. The iScan VP30 reboots to its factory default

• Perform a hard reset of the iScan VP30 unit using the remote control as follows:
1- Press the Configuration button on the remote until the front LED reads ‘FCTD’
2- Press Enter. The FPD indicates ‘NO’
3- Press the up arrow. The FPD indicates ‘YES’
4- Press Enter. The iScan VP30 reboots to its factory default

• Perform a hard reset of the iScan VP30 unit using the buttons on the front panel as follows:
1- Unplug the power supply from the iScan VP30 unit
2- Press Menu and Exit buttons simultaneously while plugging the power back in.

Not sure if this re-load the original firmware, but it is worth a try?

Yeah, that doesn't work. I e-mailed DVDO to see if there was some sort've reset/flash you could do to restore the factory default and the answer was no. :(

But, I did find a serial cable, finally. Hooked up my old laptop. Took a minute for me to get Terra to work (I had to stop setting the baud down to 19.6 and leave it at 57whatever). Once the processor rebooted, the new message on the processor was Please Load file. BINGO!

File is loading. Hopefully I'll be up and going soon.

Tips for DVDO...how about a USB port on your next major VP iteration?

Tips for DVDO...how about a USB port on your next major VP iteration?
Yes DVDO, please include a USB port in the next iteration, preferably located in the front.

Alright, file is loaded and the unit can now boot and show video and such.

But now my audio is all screwed up. Background music comes through loud and clear, but not speech.

Alright, file is loaded and the unit can now boot and show video and such.

But now my audio is all screwed up. Background music comes through loud and clear, but not speech.

From all of your sources?

How are they connected to the VP30?

Some more information would be helpful in addressing your issues

From all of your sources?

How are they connected to the VP30?

Some more information would be helpful in addressing your issues

It wasn't a VP30 error, it was a human error. The reason I was only getting background music was because I had unplugged my amplifier that drives my front three speakers in order to plug in my old laptop. ;)

Well I can't tell you much as I've not bought it or used them before but Easy AV (http://www.easyav.co.uk/?page=product&product=5131) have it listed for £188.
Gosh, you poms pay a lot for almost everything. ;) ! My Oppo 971H + VP30 SDI + PM SDI + freight and duties came in at AUD740 - that's about 310 pounds. (bought the VP30 SDI at the same time as the VP30 for USD99.)
The VP30 SDI card from Lenexpo shouldn't be any more than 100 pounds inc air frieght. Not sure what your taxes and duties are of course - none for us. I'll be visiting your good country next month - I've been reminded not to convert from pounds to aussie dollars - it hurts too much and spoils your holiday:eek: :D

Phil - you must know one of the sheilas at Lenexpo - just went there, the sdi card is more like $299 (USD). Unless pounds are worth even more today...

Phil - you must know one of the sheilas at Lenexpo - just went there, the sdi card is more like $299 (USD). Unless pounds are worth even more today...
Perhaps the sheilas perceive me as a bronzed Aussie :D . Did you email (or speak to) Michael directly? The web site doesn't give as good a pricing structure as the personal touch. One of our Aussie posters got a price of USD150 just recently. I got mine for USD99 as I mentioned before, when I purchased it with my VP30. There is obviously ample margin for the product to be sold at USD150. I think they are restricted on the pricing they can openly advertise DVDO poducts for.

They are a fully accredited DVDO reseller though, unlike many others that claim to be. Warranty service has been excellent, with them happy to send circuit boards across to me to "replace" my faulty HD+ unit. All I had to do was swap over the 2 circuit boards and send the faulty ones back to them via low cost airmail (USD9 - less than it would have cost me to send the whole unit to my local distributor, plus I was without my HD+ for only 4 days). They paid for them to be sent out to me via Fedex before I sent mine back to them. I also received my lens over 2 months ago now, free of charge. I can't speak highly enough of them. No, I don't have any shares in Lenexpo - just think that excellent service and good pricing should be recognised.

Yes DVDO, please include a USB port in the next iteration, preferably located in the front.

While a USB port would be nice, I wouldn't want to install drivers on my PC just to download firmware to the DVDO (unless they made the DVDO pretend to be one of the default USB devices like serial ports, mass storage, mouse, etc.), and Lumagen has a perfectly acceptable upgrade scheme through the serial port that is safe if the download is interrupted, and is reliable. It also doesn't rely on as many features of the serial port as the DVDO scheme, and so is less picky about USB serial ports.

Frankly speaking, the DVDO scheme is like an engineering hack that escaped the lab in the mid 80s.

--Andre

While a USB port would be nice, I wouldn't want to install drivers on my PC just to download firmware to the DVDO (unless they made the DVDO pretend to be one of the default USB devices like serial ports, mass storage, mouse, etc.), and Lumagen has a perfectly acceptable upgrade scheme through the serial port that is safe if the download is interrupted, and is reliable. It also doesn't rely on as many features of the serial port as the DVDO scheme, and so is less picky about USB serial ports.

Frankly speaking, the DVDO scheme is like an engineering hack that escaped the lab in the mid 80s.

--Andre

You'd think they could do it similar to what's done on a digital camera. To upgrade the firmware on my camera, I put the binary file on a CF card, put it in the camera, then select the menu selection for update firmware.

Why can't there be a USB port on the video processor, put the binary file on a usb thumbdrive, plug it into the USB port on the video processor, and select the menu command for update firmware.

You'd think they could do it similar to what's done on a digital camera. To upgrade the firmware on my camera, I put the binary file on a CF card, put it in the camera, then select the menu selection for update firmware.

Why can't there be a USB port on the video processor, put the binary file on a usb thumbdrive, plug it into the USB port on the video processor, and select the menu command for update firmware.

For a camera, the storage media already has to be there to store the pictures, so piggybacking on it for firmware updates is basically free in terms of added build cost and lots of the development costs. A CF slot on a video processor would be there only for firmware updates, and would have no other use (well, maybe you could save your settings on it, too), so it'd be a much more expensive feature than making your serial port flashing work right in the first place.

If they made the video processor boot from a removable external flash device instead of putting flash internal to the processor, that might be interesting. But now you'd have to worry about people losing their flash drive or screwing it up in some way, and it'd still be an expensive feature for what one hopes is not a common operation.

A USB host port, which is what you'd need to use thumbdrives on the VP and is what's found on PCs and Macs, requires a lot more programming and resources (memory) than a USB target port, which is what's found on USB peripherals like thumb drives, serial ports, mice, etc. Again, this would be a much more expensive feature than making good use of the serial port that's already there.

There really is no excuse for the poor execution of the VP30's update scheme, especially when their competition can do it so well.

--Andre

Gosh, you poms pay a lot for almost everything. ;) ! My Oppo 971H + VP30 SDI + PM SDI + freight and duties came in at AUD740 - that's about 310 pounds. (bought the VP30 SDI at the same time as the VP30 for USD99.)
The VP30 SDI card from Lenexpo shouldn't be any more than 100 pounds inc air frieght. Not sure what your taxes and duties are of course - none for us. I'll be visiting your good country next month - I've been reminded not to convert from pounds to aussie dollars - it hurts too much and spoils your holiday:eek: :D

They don't call us rip off Briton for nothing you know! :)

Welcome to the 50% tax state, but hey we get so many quality services for our investment, there's..... erm.... and.... err.... and also....

Typical price for the SDI card here (and this is when bundled with a VP30!) is £200 (~US$340). Although just spoted Lenexpo have them on eBay for ~US$250 including worldwide postage. (~US$312 after UK tax ;) ).

There really is no excuse for the poor execution of the VP30's update scheme, especially when their competition can do it so well.

--Andre

Personally i think the update system works very well it was piggyback riding on the rs232 control they also needed. The fact that support for rs232 is dropping on pc's is the problem putting them in the line of fire. Now they might have to support 2 methods because they simple can't drop the rs232 its the accepted norm on av.

Just my opinion,

Daniel.

The VP30 SDI card from Lenexpo shouldn't be any more than 100 pounds inc air frieght. Not sure what your taxes and duties are of course - none for us.Anything over £18 (US$32) for cost of goods plus cost of shipping can get import tax (between 17.5% and 25%) and customs duty too (4%-7%) plus a charge £10-£20 from courier for 'tax processing admin fee'. So, for £100 inc shipping; that could cost extra £50 in tax. :(

Sadly it's often cheaper to pay higher UK price for DVDO (or any product) including sales tax at 17.5%, than it is to import from outside EU and pay punative import taxes.

StooMonster

Bummer, maybe Johnny should have called in on Tony whilst he was over your way and put him straight on these punitive taxes. :D

Personally i think the update system works very well it was piggyback riding on the rs232 control they also needed. The fact that support for rs232 is dropping on pc's is the problem putting them in the line of fire. Now they might have to support 2 methods because they simple can't drop the rs232 its the accepted norm on av.

Daniel.

gotta argee - my only other experience on upgrading firmware on software devices was on my keyboard/synths. Hadn't used the serial port since my old pen/pad input device. Yet the upgrade went smoothly for me the first time, and worked the second time just fine AFTER I followed the directions. But I bought and own a full featured PC, with a real serial port. Unlike the new, "better" laptops that only have USB. Can't blame DVDO for that.

My Windows workstation and my Macs do not have serial ports period. I found an old Sony Vaio laptop with a serial port, and use that only for updating AV equipment.

It would be nice to update firmware over USB or network.

StooMonster

Andre,

"A CF slot on a video processor would be there only for firmware updates, and would have no other use (well, maybe you could save your settings on it, too),"

If they went through the expense and hassle of adding something like CF another feature could be for picture display. Some Sony projectors have something like this for example. They also let you assign a JPG as your startup splash screen when you turn them on. I'd probably never use it to show pictures, well maybe test pics, but a custom 'Welcome to.....' sort of message down in the theater when the VP was turned on whould be kind of slick.

Shawn

I only had a problem upodating vp30 firmware once, and that was because I did not read the directions. Well actually the directions were wrong, I was Beta testing a release and they forgot to tell me that they changed the VP30 default RS232 port speed to 19200.

I use a laptop connected to the real world through an IOnetworks USB to serial adapter. They are, IMHO, the most reliable and full featured units that perform the USB to RS232 job. My unit is an Edgeport/8 which has 8 serial ports, but they come in flavors of 1/2/4/8. Originally the Edgeport/8's were used mainly by corporations since the price was about $600. Today you can buy them on eBAY for about $25-$50. I bought a couple of extras for $25 apiece, used, but in excellent condition from a large data center that was converting away from RS232.

They also have a software package which includes an application to assign the new com ports to any com port number. I generally start mine at 5 since I want to leave room for a real pair of serial ports at 1 & 2, and modems at 3 & 4 (as a general practice so all my systems look the same and software moves easily between them), but I have used them starting at 1 after disabling the true serial port at 1 in the Bios.

I have not found any piece of gear that requires an RS232 serial port which does not work with the Edgeport line of USB to RS232 adapters.

There are what look to be new Edgeport/1's on ebay at $38 and some with starting bids of $5 and $10. Having one of these around for a laptop that has no serial com ports probably makes some sense.

Hi guys, I am a new owner of the VP30_ABT102D and SDI. Can anyone advise what output format should I set for my Pioneer 504 plasma display?

Is it 720p - 60? Is this 1 to 1 pixel mapping here?

Sorry if I ask a stupid question, newbie here.

Thanks. rtankm

What is it connected over? HDMI? I think 720p is probably the best option, but if all your sources are 60Hz then you might be able to use native res @ 1280x768

If you're using analog outputs, definitely use 1280x768

Hi guys, I am a new owner of the VP30_ABT102D and SDI. Can anyone advise what output format should I set for my Pioneer 504 plasma display?

Is it 720p - 60? Is this 1 to 1 pixel mapping here?

Sorry if I ask a stupid question, newbie here.

Thanks. rtankm

First don't panic, getting this right can take some time. Check the test signals on the vp30. It provides 3 signals to check if you have 1-1 mapping, horizontal, vertical and checkerboard. They make it very easy if you have 1-1 or not. You have 10 output profiles so first make one that works (has image) so atleast you can watch while fiddling this out. I would start as already noted at 1280x768 at 60hz on hdmi and see if it gives a image. if it does goto the 3 test signals and see if its 'pixel perfect'.

this might also help : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492426

Daniel.

The fact that support for rs232 is dropping on pc's is the problem putting them in the line of fire. Now they might have to support 2 methods because they simple can't drop the rs232 its the accepted norm on av.


I'm not advocating dropping the RS-232 port at all --- in fact, in my two posts on this, I am arguing against putting USB on a video processor. I'd like DVDO to have a more reliable, easier-to-use update scheme using the RS-232 port. The Lumagen system works great. The Lexicon system works great. I make products in my day job whose serial update functions work great, even though most people use Ethernet or USB to update those products. It's really not that hard.

--Andre

Last evening while watching Lost, I experienced a loss of speech track. I could still hear the background music, just no speech. This occurred when transitioning from the last commercial to the last 10 minutes of Lost. All other inputs and channels still played sound normally. Just Lost was lost.
Oh well, I thought, I'll just watch the last 10 minutes on my dvr. Needless to say the same lack of speech issue was reproduced. At that moment my wife began to seriously question my intelligence for buying the VP30. I told her that I believe this is a known issue and that DVDO and a software fix will be available shortly. Is this correct?
My setup is a VP30 w/ABT102; a Denon S301 receiver; a Comcast 6412III cable box (w/dvr), and a Sony 34xbr960 CRT. All connected by HDMI except for VP30 to Denon with optical.
Is HDCP handshaking the issue or may there be other problems/advice?

Thanks in advance.

Last evening while watching Lost, I experienced a loss of speech track. I could still hear the background music, just no speech. This occurred when transitioning from the last commercial to the last 10 minutes of Lost. All other inputs and channels still played sound normally. Just Lost was lost.
Oh well, I thought, I'll just watch the last 10 minutes on my dvr. Needless to say the same lack of speech issue was reproduced. At that moment my wife began to seriously question my intelligence for buying the VP30. I told her that I believe this is a known issue and that DVDO and a software fix will be available shortly.

That is more likely to be an issue with your local ABC affiliate's feed than with any of your equipment.

This happened to me once when watching Alias on ABC here in Boston. I had to switch to the standard def channel until the next commercial break. The station eventually fixed the issue and the last part of the show was fine.

The VP30 simply passes the digital audio signal from the cable box to your receiver. It may apply a delay, but it does not alter the data in the signal and cannot strip out individual channels.

good news... just received the confirm our abt102 will arrive on Monday(no word on the replacement lens).

Thanks for your input. I should have include in my earlier post that my wife finally went to the bedroom tv and listened to the last 30 seconds on the cable box fed TV. The complete, normal soundtrack was being transmitted by our local network.

Also, I tried soft reset during live broadcast of Lost and hard reset of the VP-30 with no success during the Lost broadcast via dvr. Still no speech. Only background music portion of the soundtrack.

Thanks for your input. I should have include in my earlier post that my wife finally went to the bedroom tv and listened to the last 30 seconds on the cable box fed TV. The complete, normal soundtrack was being transmitted by our local network.

Also, I tried soft reset during live broadcast of Lost and hard reset of the VP-30 with no success during the Lost broadcast via dvr. Still no speech. Only background music portion of the soundtrack.

But was the one with the messed up speech track HD and the one that worked SD? I think its most likely the broadcasters fault as well. They probably got the SD transmission right and the HD transmission wrong. There's also the possibility that its a problem with your receiver though the broadcasters are the more likely culprits. You said this is on a DVR, you could try bypassing the VP30 and replaying to rule out VP30 problems.

Dropping an individual channel would require the VP30 to decode Dolby Digital, snip out the center channel, and then reencode the Dolby Digital signal. The VP30 does not have the hardware to do this. If it was 2 channel PCM audio source the VP30 would have to process the audio and remove all sound that overlapped between left and right channels. Again it doesn't have the hardware to do this. Audio problems with the VP30 will generally be brief or complete loss of all audio.

- Collin

Thanks for your input. I should have include in my earlier post that my wife finally went to the bedroom tv and listened to the last 30 seconds on the cable box fed TV. The complete, normal soundtrack was being transmitted by our local network.

Were you both watching the HD channel? If she turned on the SD channel on the other TV, that's a completely separate feed.

As I said, it's impossible for the VP30 to strip out the dialogue. It doesn't decode the audio at all. Your receiver does that.

Josh Z and collinp,

Now I understand. Yes my wife would have been watching SD. Thanks for your posts.

Sorry I blamed the VP30 in my original post. However, I do have the issue of losing all audio after fast forwarding through commercials with my Moto6412III dvr. Is there a fix coming for this?

I thought I would take this opportunity to say that if anyone is interested I have several pieces of equipment that can be used to test and compare (I'm located in the Sacramento area). Here's a brief list of some of the equipment:

DVDO VP30
Calibre Advantage-HD (Silicon Optix Realta based)
NEC TheaterSync (Silicon Optix Realta based)
George ... I imagine you've had the opportunity to A/B the VP30 against the NEC TheaterSync - I'd be interested in your feedback re: the relative merits of the two?

Thanks for your input. I should have include in my earlier post that my wife finally went to the bedroom tv and listened to the last 30 seconds on the cable box fed TV. The complete, normal soundtrack was being transmitted by our local network.

Also, I tried soft reset during live broadcast of Lost and hard reset of the VP-30 with no success during the Lost broadcast via dvr. Still no speech. Only background music portion of the soundtrack.

You could also try going direct with your audio (bypass the VP30) and see if this corrects it (or not).... SJ

First don't panic, getting this right can take some time. Check the test signals on the vp30. It provides 3 signals to check if you have 1-1 mapping, horizontal, vertical and checkerboard. They make it very easy if you have 1-1 or not. You have 10 output profiles so first make one that works (has image) so atleast you can watch while fiddling this out. I would start as already noted at 1280x768 at 60hz on hdmi and see if it gives a image. if it does goto the 3 test signals and see if its 'pixel perfect'.

this might also help : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492426

Daniel.
Yup I am connected using HDMI to plasma. Currently, I am using the 720p 60hz output profile. I did try 1280 x 768 and my plasma just lost the signal.

Seem like those output profile that uses 1280 x 720 etc... are not acceptable by the pioneer plasma... hmmm

Will check out the tread and also the test pattern.... thanks!

netarc: you have a PM in case you don't check your messages. I'm located in the Sacramento area so we aren't too far from each other.

First don't panic, getting this right can take some time. Check the test signals on the vp30. It provides 3 signals to check if you have 1-1 mapping, horizontal, vertical and checkerboard. They make it very easy if you have 1-1 or not. You have 10 output profiles so first make one that works (has image) so atleast you can watch while fiddling this out. I would start as already noted at 1280x768 at 60hz on hdmi and see if it gives a image. if it does goto the 3 test signals and see if its 'pixel perfect'.

this might also help : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492426

Daniel.
Hi Daniel,

Just downloaded the spreadsheet, how do I use the infor.? Which one shld I select to key in into the USER for output..... thanks again.

Yup I am connected using HDMI to plasma. Currently, I am using the 720p 60hz output profile. I did try 1280 x 768 and my plasma just lost the signal.

Seem like those output profile that uses 1280 x 720 etc... are not acceptable by the pioneer plasma... hmmm

Will check out the tread and also the test pattern.... thanks!


I am quite sure even up to now the consumer models from Pio cannot do Native Rate. It will only accept the standard rates for Video. That means 720p, 750p(PAL), 1080i etc etc. Thats the reason why many buy the commercial model when they are going to use a scaler. 504 is the 4th generation model and I had the 43" model but swap out to the 43" 4th generation commercial model and have been happily able to use a NR output from my scaler. I am sure all 4th generation consumer PIO cannot do NR. You can get NR on the VGA input though.

If your 504 is the CMX model, then its the commercial and you should be able to get NR. If its the one with the mediabox...... :p



Oliver

The VP30 can already do this. You need to tell the VP30 that your display has a 16:9 shaped total image, but that you only want to use a 2.35:1 shaped subset of it. You also need to specify where that 2.35:1 area is located within the 16:9 overall frame.

In the Output Setup menu, under the Aspect Ratio option, you have to define the 'Display' aspect ratio as 16:9 and the 'Screen' aspect ratio as 2.35:1. The Vertical Shift control in that menu then let's you slide the active 2.35:1 area down to the bottom (or top, for that matter) of the 16:9 screen.

If you do this a lot, you may want to create a Display Profile just for this setting.

- Dale Adams

Like was mention before, the vertical shift won't save to a profile. I think I noticed this right after the second software upgrade, and did email DVDO about it, but it still doesn't work.

Whats so complicated about gettting this working again, because I'm about positive I could save it on the first version.

That means 720p, 750p(PAL), 1080i etc etc. Thats the reason why many buy the commercial model when they are going to use a scaler.
750p(PAL)? Nope. In PAL-land it's still 720p resolution, simply refreshed at 50Hz rather than 60Hz. i.e. 720p50 not 720p60.

StooMonster

Heh, but my VP30 is already stuck in the endless loop because it no longer has any valid firmware. So it tries to load, can't, tells me to reboot, shake and repeat.

I can confirm what Malichai reported. I set all the correct TT 'corrections' and did a software update. It was done on my 'old' PC now dedicated for software updates on AV kit. No USB. Similar thing done dozens of times on video processors before.

I was left in an endless loop. No rebooting though I thought I had done everything correctly. Did a 'hardware' reset and the tests all passed and streamed out confirmation to the PC monitoring the progress but then shuts down. Everything checked out then shuts. Still VP30 in this endless loop. Tried sending data again but VP30 dead. No response from remote. Pulled the plug. No effect.

Decided to take VP30 downstairs to a new PC and to pop the lid. Before I had a chance to do anything downstairs, I plugged the VP30 in and it all boots fine. New software confirmed and all working fine. The ONLY thing that happened between these two events was unplugging some leads. I doubt the composite and component will effect it much, not SDI either, so the finger of suspicion is now at what the HDMI inputs were doing at the time preventing a reboot despite a good update.

Vantage HD recently has some update issues with the HDMI inputs. I wonder whether it is similar here.

Like was mention before, the vertical shift won't save to a profile. I think I noticed this right after the second software upgrade, and did email DVDO about it, but it still doesn't work.


.... it works on mine... at 1.07 with the ABT102 card.... although occasionally it will lose the config (not just this, but something else also; like kind of overwritten memory)

Like was mention before, the vertical shift won't save to a profile. I think I noticed this right after the second software upgrade, and did email DVDO about it, but it still doesn't work.

Whats so complicated about gettting this working again, because I'm about positive I could save it on the first version.

It must be a more complex problem, maybe you need to send them all your settings since somehow it seems to 'reset' for you. I just retested by creating 4 profiles (5 to 8) with different vertical offsets (positive/negative/underscan) and they worked fine for me. I tested this with hdmi and analog out and multiple inputs too (sdi, cable, htpc).

Not saying you don't have a problem but im not sure what other settings seems to confuse it because it does save the value (or tries).

Daniel.

On my Domino 55m a 720p dlp, i found out that the only way to disable the processing inside the screen is to output at 1301*732 custom resolution.
If i leave it at 720p and even select pixel to pixel, in the VP30's test patterns: the checkerboard and vertical and horizontal pattern appear not quite right confirming that the display is still processing in conjucture in the VP30, thus resulting in a deformed picture. But if i select 1301*732, i see a gray picture concerning these test patterns, comfirming according to the VP30's manual that the display is no longer processing the image. But is this normal, outputting at a higher resolution than your display's native resolution ?

Regards.

750p(PAL)? Nope. In PAL-land it's still 720p resolution, simply refreshed at 50Hz rather than 60Hz. i.e. 720p50 not 720p60.

StooMonster

Ah. But the funny thing is that I see 750P in my Pio manual. so thought that would be the signal for HD Pal land.

Oliver

Hi folks,

Now that I've got my 50XR5 and VP30/ABT102, I've got some questions. Hoping some of you can provide some advice.

I'm trying to set up the panel in NR with the VP30. Using the 50XR5 thread as a guide, what I end up with is :

HShift = 5
HSize = 1365
H-Front=105
H-Sync=50
H-Back=5
V-Shift=11
V-Size=768
V-Front=8
V-Sync=1
V-Back=11

Along with Framerate = 60Hz Unlocked for 50Hz, 60Hz.

Vertical timing is perfect. The horizontal line test is as it should be.

The Horizontal Timing ( for vertical lines & grey test ) is one colour pixel off. Eg. it gives a pink colour, or green colour depending on alternating values of H-Shift.

I seem to be on a timing "knife edge" and I'm not sure how to get it absolutely right.

I've tried the settings posted by other people but they didn't result in a centered and full edge to edge signal.

Could it be a cabling issue ?

The VP30 says

Ouput : 1365x768p
Frame Rate : 60.000 (unlocked)
Line Rate : 47.279kHz
Pixel Rate : 72.102 Mhz

George ... I imagine you've had the opportunity to A/B the VP30 against the NEC TheaterSync - I'd be interested in your feedback re: the relative merits of the two?
Got a PM from George addressing this, thanks George.

A more general question for the thread ... does the VP30 have a "demo" mode similar to the TheaterSync's? The latter, I'm told, has a mode which will apply processing to 1/2 the screen, while leaving the other 1/2 untouched.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm looknig for a piece to use in my demo room which will *prove* to our A/V clients the benefits of using an external scaler ... the TheaterSync has this function, but I'd much rather standardize on the VP30 as our scaler/deinterlacer of choice (due to it's lower $ and a variety of other reasons) - so I'm hoping the VP30 has some type of "demo" mode similar to the TheaterSync's?

Even if not, I suppose I can run split the outputs of the DVD player and have them going into two discrete inputs on the display, and then toggle back/forth ... but a demo mode like the above would be much more desireable.

It must be a more complex problem, maybe you need to send them all your settings since somehow it seems to 'reset' for you. I just retested by creating 4 profiles (5 to 8) with different vertical offsets (positive/negative/underscan) and they worked fine for me. I tested this with hdmi and analog out and multiple inputs too (sdi, cable, htpc).

Not saying you don't have a problem but im not sure what other settings seems to confuse it because it does save the value (or tries).

Daniel.

Well, I don't know what else I can do, but maybe I'll play around with it some more. I wrote DVDO about it but not sure if they will answer or not. I haven't been able to get the shift to hold since the first software upgrade.

Before I did the first upgrade I had a profile with a minor horizontal shift of 1, and when I set the unit back up with all my settings, I noticed it wouldn't hold that shift. It still won't.

Now all I want too do is move a 2:35 picture to the bottom of my screen, which is a vertical shift of about 77, and it just refuses to save it. I'm using 1.07 with the new card. There is another post somewhere here that said it wouldn't save either.

It is kind of strange its working for some, and another said it works but resets at times. I don't have some kind of weird setup, its just HDMI on a 720 projector. Everything else seems to hold in the profiles except the shift.

It has to be some kind of software bug, and maybe they will clear it up soon, but I'll try it again and see what happens.

Ah. But the funny thing is that I see 750P in my Pio manual. so thought that would be the signal for HD Pal land.
My plasma manual also says same, but aren't they the vertical blanking lines? e.g. 525i (480i), 625i (480i), 750p (720p), 1125i (1080i).

StooMonster

Got a PM from George addressing this, thanks George.

A more general question for the thread ... does the VP30 have a "demo" mode similar to the TheaterSync's? The latter, I'm told, has a mode which will apply processing to 1/2 the screen, while leaving the other 1/2 untouched.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm looknig for a piece to use in my demo room which will *prove* to our A/V clients the benefits of using an external scaler ... the TheaterSync has this function, but I'd much rather standardize on the VP30 as our scaler/deinterlacer of choice (due to it's lower $ and a variety of other reasons) - so I'm hoping the VP30 has some type of "demo" mode similar to the TheaterSync's?

Even if not, I suppose I can run split the outputs of the DVD player and have them going into two discrete inputs on the display, and then toggle back/forth ... but a demo mode like the above would be much more desireable.

No it can't it will also be nearly impossible since most of the tasks are deinterlacing and scaling so say you scale a dvd to 1280x720p over hdmi how can you epect it to leave 50% of the signal alone.

Im almost sure the Nec can't do that either it probably just allows you to not process some of its tricks on 50% of the screen.

Daniel.