Any change we could get an option to force film mode or tighter film bias with NTSC material? I think ABT102 drops to video mode too often with some material.

The VP30 can already do this. You need to tell the VP30 that your display has a 16:9 shaped total image, but that you only want to use a 2.35:1 shaped subset of it. You also need to specify where that 2.35:1 area is located within the 16:9 overall frame.

In the Output Setup menu, under the Aspect Ratio option, you have to define the 'Display' aspect ratio as 16:9 and the 'Screen' aspect ratio as 2.35:1. The Vertical Shift control in that menu then let's you slide the active 2.35:1 area down to the bottom (or top, for that matter) of the 16:9 screen.

If you do this a lot, you may want to create a Display Profile just for this setting.
Thanks Dale. I tried this and it worked. It took me a while to figure out that I also had to set the Input AR to 2.35, but eventually I got the 2.35 image at the bottom of my 16x9 screen.

However, I have run into the same problem reported by Larry J. Getting the 2.35 image to the bottom required a vertical shift of about 83 (or -83, I can't remember). I tried saving a Display profile with this vertical shift. The save went OK, but after I switched to another Display profile and switched back, the vertical shift was 17, not 83. This was different than the vertical shift in the other profile, or any of my profiles for that matter, so it did remember something, just not the shift of 83 that I had set. Maybe there is some limit on the size of the shift it can remember?

I am also running firmware 1.07.

I'm thinking about picking up a multi-region DVD player to use with my VP30 for a few titles that aren't released in region 1 anamorphic versions (Timecop, Hellraiser 3 Director's Cut, etc).

I assume the VP30 will do all the heavy lifting, so what do I need out of the DVD player? Just the region-free stuff, or does it have to do PAL to NTSC? I was looking at jvbdigital, and trying to decide between the Panasonic RP62, Oppo 971, or the Pioneer 285.

I don't see any difference in film or video mode. What should I see?

Any change we could get an option to force film mode or tighter film bias with NTSC material? I think ABT102 drops to video mode too often with some material.
Isn't that why there's 'Film Bias' mode under the 'Deinterlace' menu. Try selecting that and see how that works for you. :)

StooMonster

Isn't that why there's 'Film Bias' mode under the 'Deinterlace' menu. Try selecting that and see how that works for you. :)Yes, I've tried that. It helps a little (deinterlacer goes faster to film mode when scene changes) but still drops to video mode on some occasions I wouldn't like it to happen. A good solution would be a film bias adjustment with several levels, including forcing to film mode.

Why don't you post here which Region 1 DVDs you are having problems with, and which scenes in particular are causing you cadence problems; I know that ABT are always looking for challenging material.

Dale may be able to buy a copy and tell you what is going on.

StooMonster

I assume the VP30 will do all the heavy lifting, so what do I need out of the DVD player? Just the region-free stuff, or does it have to do PAL to NTSC?

Just region-free. You don't want the player to do the PAL to NTSC conversion, because the DVDO will almost always be much better at that. I use a JVB-modded Denon 2900 with an SDI output, and it works great. The 2900 has other problems, but video output is not one of them.

--Andre

I don't see any difference in film or video mode. What should I see?


If you don't see any difference, I would think of it as a good thing. :rolleyes:

No, really, I found this article helpful, or unhelpful depending on whether you want to notice failures in your deinterlacer or not.

hometheaterhifi's Website
DVD Benchmark
Part 5 - Progressive Scan DVD
October, 2000 (Latest Update - March, 2005)
Don Munsil and Brian Florian



Hope that helps.

I love my AB102, but it makes the wrinkles show up on the Old News Reporters that aren't use to doing their makeup for HD! I feel like I'm looking at that old wrinkle faced guy from the beer commercial.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

hometheaterhifi's Website
DVD Benchmark
Part 5 - Progressive Scan DVD
October, 2000 (Latest Update - March, 2005)
Don Munsil and Brian Florian

I'm thinking about picking up a multi-region DVD player to use with my VP30 for a few titles that aren't released in region 1 anamorphic versions (Timecop, Hellraiser 3 Director's Cut, etc).

I assume the VP30 will do all the heavy lifting, so what do I need out of the DVD player? Just the region-free stuff, or does it have to do PAL to NTSC? I was looking at jvbdigital, and trying to decide between the Panasonic RP62, Oppo 971, or the Pioneer 285.

The VP30 will do the deinterlacing, scaling, and PAL-to-NTSC conversion for you. However, you still need a player with a good MPEG decoder. A player with a poor MPEG decoder will just feed garbage to the VP30, and of course Garbage In = Garbage Out.

Wait a month for the Oppo 970H to be released. That will give you a very clean 480i or 576i signal for the VP30 to process.

The VP30 will do the deinterlacing, scaling, and PAL-to-NTSC conversion for you. However, you still need a player with a good MPEG decoder. A player with a poor MPEG decoder will just feed garbage to the VP30, and of course Garbage In = Garbage Out.

Wait a month for the Oppo 970H to be released. That will give you a very clean 480i or 576i signal for the VP30 to process.


Are you saying that with a 480i signal you do not need a MPEG decoder

The VP30 will do the deinterlacing, scaling, and PAL-to-NTSC conversion for you. However, you still need a player with a good MPEG decoder. A player with a poor MPEG decoder will just feed garbage to the VP30, and of course Garbage In = Garbage Out.

Wait a month for the Oppo 970H to be released. That will give you a very clean 480i or 576i signal for the VP30 to process.

Is the MPEG decoder on the Oppo 970h going to be significantly better than the one on the Oppo 971 or the Panny RP62?

You might be better off bypassing the VP30 for HD DVD to the Ruby. Deinterlacing 1080i is more for DVDO's next-gen scaler (VP50?).
I will be in the same situation come this weekend... Deciding which is better. With or without the VP30...
if the vp30 does 1080i pass-through, then yes, that seems the way to go. I only have a 720p projector so never checked out what it does with 1080i. congrats on the upcoming ruby!
Check the test signals on the vp30. It provides 3 signals to check if you have 1-1 mapping, horizontal, vertical and checkerboard. They make it very easy if you have 1-1 or not.

Daniel.
Found that if you pass Thru 1080i from the VP30 through the Ruby, you only get 540P resolution. :eek:

Please tell me if I'm interpreting the vp30 1-1 mapping test signals correctly. :rolleyes:

When passing thru 1080i-60 from the Toshiba A-1 to the vp30 to the Ruby, the vertical and checkerboard signal patterns are perfect, but the horizontal signal pattern is entirely black. This is telling me that the Ruby is deinterlacing/scaling only one of the two fields, (wobulating?) (doubling the same half of the 1080i white or black fields) to output 1080P-60 and in this case, is showing me a 1080P-60 black screen.

When the VP30 deinterlaces/scales the 1080i-60 signal from the A-1 and outputs to the Ruby a 1080P-60 signal, the Ruby puts out a perfect 1-1 mapped image (complete alternate vertical black and white horizontal lines), along with the complete black and white vertical and checkerboard patterns.

So, for best 1080P-60 picture resolution from the Ruby, you need to use the VP-30's deinterlace/scaling features, changing the 1080i-60 signal from the Toshiba A-1, and pass thru the 1080P-60 signal in the Ruby for projection. :)

Correct?

Paul

Paul the original firmware has some problems with 1080i in and 1080i output, this has been totally corrected, the VP30 correctly passes thru 1080i when using 1080i and 1080i output

-Gary

Sorry folks Stacey S has already commented to some industry people, the Next Oppo DVD player with 480i HDMI is not going to cut the mustard from what I hear, I told everyone to forget 480i HDMI ;) :D SDI dvd is where it is at, but if you have a high end unit with nice clean CUE free 480i HDMI then by all means use it

-Gary

Paul the original firmware has some problems with 1080i in and 1080i output, this has been totally corrected, the VP30 correctly passes thru 1080i when using 1080i and 1080i output

-GaryYes, this is what I'm seeing using 1.07. It's the Ruby, not the vp30, that is taking the 1080i-60 signal and showing a black horizontal screen. The vp30 also is correctly deinterlacing/scaling the 1080i-60 and outputting a correct 1080P-60 signal that the Ruby is just passing through, allowing it to project an accurate and complete horizontal test pattern.

Paul

I would like to congratulate DVDO for the great PQ and the fantastic set of video functions provided by VP30 but there are a couple of audio issues that I hope DVDO can look into.

These audio issues surfaced ever since I chose to channel audio out via HDMI instead of direct i-Link from my DVD player to the receiver.

The problems are:
1) Upon startup, audio cannot be detected by my receiver from the optical input. This can consistently (on 3 consecutive occasions) be rectified by physically disconnecting power to the VP30. I have tried "soft" power resets and switching audio modes back and forth with no avail.

2) Audio dropouts. I watched "Tristan + Isolde" (R1) and "The Greatest Game Ever Played" (R3) last night and encountered 4 instances of audio dropouts (around half a sec each) between them. These occurrences seemed intermittent as I had not experienced any a few nights ago.

My audio connections are pretty simple (just 2 devices linked to VP30+ABT102):
Pioneer DV-969AVi --(HDMI)--> VP30 --(Toslink)--> Pioneer VSX-AX5Ai

If I'm not wrong, the equivalents of the DVD player and receiver in North America are DV-59AVi and VSX-56TXi respectively.

-Shong

My plasma manual also says same, but aren't they the vertical blanking lines? e.g. 525i (480i), 625i (480i), 750p (720p), 1125i (1080i).

StooMonster

I am not really sure. When I had the consumer model some time ago, I did try to output 1280x768 to it (43" 1024x768) and it showed 750p on the display. But come to think of it, all the 720P displays are 1280x720 so if 750P is really a standard, then you cannot get native rate through these displays. so it must be 720p50. We are in Pal work but they decided to use 1080i. I almost always get NTSC DVDs R3 and R1. So everythings good :p

Oliver

I've experienced an HDMI compatibility issue between the Marantz DV 9600 and the VP30. The DV is set up for 480i out and is connected via HDMI. I have it connected to HDMI-2. I have the H10-250 connected to HDMI-1. When I switch from HDMI-1 to HDMI-2 ( DVD), the VP displays it in 4:3 format instead of the 16:9 that I have the DVD Player and VP30 set up for. When I look at the VP30 configuration menu, the input Aspect Ratio is listed as 4:3-1.78:1. It doesn't happen every time.

To recover I have to go into the DVD set-up menu and change the output to 720P then back to 480i. Then the VP config menu lists it as 16:9-1.78:1 as it should.

Why don't you post here which Region 1 DVDs you are having problems with, and which scenes in particular are causing you cadence problems; I know that ABT are always looking for challenging material.Right. I've had quite a little time to do testing, but Lois&Clark Season 2 R1 gives a lot of problems. No particular scene, problems occur quite often over the episodes. I would love to hear Dale's analysis over this.

Sorry folks Stacey S has already commented to some industry people, the Next Oppo DVD player with 480i HDMI is not going to cut the mustard from what I hear, I told everyone to forget 480i HDMI ;) :D SDI dvd is where it is at, but if you have a high end unit with nice clean CUE free 480i HDMI then by all means use it

-Gary


Huh...Kris Deering's posts haven't given any indication of this...

Stacey...care to chime in?

I do find it amusing that the new Oppo is being hyped already and we don't know how it will pan out!! All because the old Oppo is a decent player. The Old Arcams (79 and 29) are well worth trying for their HDMI SD interlaced output. Their MPEG decoder isn't as good as a Philips963 but the combination works well, VERY well. There is also a new Arcam universal on the market which I would hope can also do 480i / 576i from HDMI but do not know. The Pioneer 868 / 968 also do this but I was never a fan of the MPEG decoders they have used in these players. For the time being I stick with my SDI collection as no HDMI player has matched them yet. It is also FAR more reliable.

Ok VP30 trouble shooters, tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Why can't I successfully connect (HDMI) my Sony DVP-CX995V 400 disk DVD changer to the VP30 ? After many attempts I don't get a video signal out to the display device.

The changer works fine through my Gefen HDMI 1 x 2 switcher or directly connected to my HDMI input on the projector but after trying it on all 4 of VP30's HDMI inputs I'm scratching my head. I've swaped HDMI cables from my other working devices with no luck.

My other input devices all work fine using HDMI into the VP30 using HDMI. (Samsung 360 STB, Toshiba HD DVD player.

what does the VP30 show on its config screen with regards to the input signal? What color is the front panel LED pilot light (Blue, Green red, Steady or flashing)

ABT:
It's obvious from the recent discussions that the software download has been an issue for your users. Why not fix it? For the VP30s, how about a simple open source download program that takes into account issues with various USB dongles. There are numerous protocols out there that take into account lack of h/w flow control that would be simple to implement on your end and on the PC/MAC/Linux side of things. Sure we'd have to use the current method at least one more time, but after that your support calls on s/w updates would drop significantly. (I've had to purchase a USB serial port adapter when I realized EVERY laptop I own has no serial ports anymore. So I understand everyones pain). I'm also a EE with 20+ years of Software Engineering so I know it can be fixed. :)

How about support for a memory card software update in the next VPxx boxes. The Yahoo ZipIt group (an inexpensive < $100 wireless hand held) has added MMC in 1-bit mode. How about adding something like this to the next unit.?
See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zipitwireless/message/1354

what does the VP30 show on its config screen with regards to the input signal? What color is the front panel LED pilot light (Blue, Green red, Steady or flashing)

Hi Barry,
Input shows 480p (I've tried changing to other sync outputs). I noticed the "HDCP" in paren's that show on my other inputs is not there on the players config screen.

The light on the VP30 is steady Blue but the HDCP light on the player doesn't come on ONLY when connected to the VP30 via HDMI.

Huh...Kris Deering's posts haven't given any indication of this...

Stacey...care to chime in?

Chroma bug baby

the Oppo has the chroma bug(and shows bad with SDI mod on the current one), but the processing mask's it for the upconverted output

-Gary

Hi Barry,
Input shows 480p (I've tried changing to other sync outputs). I noticed the "HDCP" in paren's that show on my other inputs is not there on the players config screen.

The light on the VP30 is steady Blue but the HDCP light on the player doesn't come on ONLY when connected to the VP30 via HDMI.

Jimmy,

In my similar setup using HDMI, the VP30 setting, Input Adjust -> HDMI Config -> HDCP Mode = ON in order to get a picture. If I have it set to OFF, my player behaves as you described and I do not get a picture.

Mike

Thanks Mike.
The VP30's HDCP is turned ON, gotta be something else :).

Do you have the same Sony changer ?

ABT:
It's obvious from the recent discussions that the software download has been an issue for your users. Why not fix it? For the VP30s, how about a simple open source download program that takes into account issues with various USB dongles. There are numerous protocols out there that take into account lack of h/w flow control that would be simple to implement on your end and on the PC/MAC/Linux side of things. Sure we'd have to use the current method at least one more time, but after that your support calls on s/w updates would drop significantly. (I've had to purchase a USB serial port adapter when I realized EVERY laptop I own has no serial ports anymore. So I understand everyones pain). I'm also a EE with 20+ years of Software Engineering so I know it can be fixed. :)

How about support for a memory card software update in the next VPxx boxes. The Yahoo ZipIt group (an inexpensive < $100 wireless hand held) has added MMC in 1-bit mode. How about adding something like this to the next unit.?
See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zipitwireless/message/1354
Isn't it just cheaper easier to buy the usb to serial adapter that DVDO recommends?

Chroma bug baby

the Oppo has the chroma bug (and shows bad with SDI mod on the current one), but the processing mask's it for the upconverted output

-Gary

Huh! :confused:

Re: Oppo - OPDV971H

Per Secrets DVD Benchmark:
The player breezed through our chroma tests with no signs of banding or jaggies at all.

Maybe you're thinking of the macroblocking bug? :rolleyes:



Per Secrets DVD Benchmark:
the player did show signs of the macroblocking bug, but it isn’t as bad as some other players

Paul

yes it breezed thru the tests because they weren't using 480i SDI directly from the mpeg decoder, the processing in the unit mask's the chroma bug very well but of course isn't used with a SDI output or the upcoming 480i HDMI

-Gary

Isn't it just cheaper easier to buy the usb to serial adapter that DVDO recommends?

Probably, but they have superb engineering at ABT for their product. Why not make downloading work across platforms easily once and for all? Heck, I'm sure MS Vista will throw a wrench into their download anyway.

JimmyR

Okay, The steady blue light indicates that the VP30 has locked onto a 480p signal which is one of the two choices generally available from the Sony DVD megachangers. (I have two of the 875's). I will check tonight and see what the exact signal coming from my DVD changer is.

The lack of the (HDCP) says there is no HDCP coming from the DVD player and I believe that is also correct as the vast majority of DVD's do not have HDCP built into their content.

I would suggest changing your DVD players settings to 480i (there should be a choice between progressive and interlaced). 480i is what is recorded on the DVD's and you do not want the sony to do any scaling or upconversion, that is what you bought the VP30 for.

Now we need to look at the VP30 output. It should be set to a fixed format, that of your projector. If all other sources play okay on the display and you are not using multiple display profiles it should be correct.

If the above does not help try turning HDCP off for this input on the VP30 to see if it helps. Are there any setting on that Sony megachanger for HDCP? There are none on mine.

I believe I also ran the Sony 875's at 480p for a while.

Are you saying that with a 480i signal you do not need a MPEG decoder

No, that is not what I'm saying. That is the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

Is the MPEG decoder on the Oppo 970h going to be significantly better than the one on the Oppo 971 or the Panny RP62?

The 970H uses the same Mediatek MPEG decoder as the 971H. This is not the same decoder used in the RP62, which was a proprietary Panasonic chip.

I do find it amusing that the new Oppo is being hyped already and we don't know how it will pan out!!

Some of us do know how it will pan out. ;)

Chroma bug baby

the Oppo has the chroma bug(and shows bad with SDI mod on the current one), but the processing mask's it for the upconverted output

yes it breezed thru the tests because they weren't using 480i SDI directly from the mpeg decoder, the processing in the unit mask's the chroma bug very well but of course isn't used with a SDI output or the upcoming 480i HDMI

The latest beta firmware for the player specifically addresses this.

"The lack of the (HDCP) says there is no HDCP coming from the DVD player and I believe that is also correct as the vast majority of DVD's do not have HDCP built into their content."//BarryGordon
...................
Thanks for the detailed reply Barry,
This players "blue" HDCP light must be ON for an successful HDMI connection, so says Sony, DVD encryption matters not :). I'll try setting output to 480i and turning off the VP30's HDCP but I think I have tried that already a few times.
Strange how the player works fine going direct to the display or through the Gefen HDMI switch. The HDCP lights up on the changer and I can throw any rez from the Sony up to and including 1080p to the pj with no problems..

By the way. I impatiently stated another thread for this help quest so further replies on this should go there. You know, keep this thread tiny :). Thanks..

JimmyR - The Sony MegaChanger will not output 480i over HDMI. The optimal resolution to send the iScan VP30 is the native resolution of the content so that the souce does minimal processing to the signal. I would recommend that you use component video for the optimal performance.

Now, for as to why the Sony MegaChanger is not outputting a picture to the VP30 using HDMI I am not positive as to the reason this is happening. I have read your thread and based on that information I would speculate that the Sony is having problems working with an HDMI repeater (the iScan). Have you tried disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI connection from the Sony when you are in the non-functioning state to see if forcing HDCP reaunthentication fixes the issue? You could also try powering down the Sony and powering it back up, keeping the iScan on the same input, to see if that fixes the issue.

"I would speculate that the Sony is having problems working with an HDMI repeater (the iScan). Have you tried disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI connection from the Sony when you are in the non-functioning state to see if forcing HDCP reaunthentication fixes the issue? You could also try powering down the Sony and powering it back up, keeping the iScan on the same input, to see if that fixes the issue.

Josh Allen
DVDO"
..............................
Yes Josh, I have tried both, connect - reconnecting the HDMI plug and re powering the the Sony, still nothing. I assume the VP30's HDCP handshake is the culprit here. Are any DVDO "fixes" coming down the road for this problem ??

How does one input component on the VP30 then output over HDMI :) ??

yes it breezed thru the tests because they weren't using 480i SDI directly from the mpeg decoder, the processing in the unit mask's the chroma bug very well but of course isn't used with a SDI output or the upcoming 480i HDMI

-Gary
Hi Gary,

As you know I've just recently modded my Oppo 971H with the Pixel Magic SDI board. And, as I also mentioned, it wasn't till I put the ABT102 card into the VP30 that I was able to get PAL to work properly. But, having done that I now have almost the "perfect" picture, certainly NO CUE. I'm using the March 15 FW on the Oppo.

It may well be that the VP30 is helping things along here, but the net effect is certainly a stunning PQ. I went through all the test patterns on the DVE DVD and all come through now with no visual artifacts - no banding on even the highest frequency bars. The DVDO test disc that comes with the ABT102 gives a graphic example of the difference between the DVI and SDI output PQ when looking at the test patterns on it.

I think the only issue left really with this player, is the video/audio sync problem that sometimes still occurs on the odd movie. I haven't struck it for a while, but others report that they still get it sometimes.

Here is the information that I have:

DVD->Display ----------------- Works
DVD->Gefen->Display --------- Works
DVD->VP30->Display ---------- Doesn't Work

It may seem like it is the VP30 which is causing the problem because it is the variable in the setup which is not working, but another variable is that the HDMI source may act differently when connected to an HDMI repeater (a device that decrypts/reencrypts HDCP) versus an HDMI sink device, the display. The iScan VP30 is certified as an HDMI repeater and it may still be the only video processor that truely is (it was at the time it was certified). To fix this problem, we need to break something that should be correct. We need to replicate this issue in house so that we can definitively tell you what the problem is and in turn what solution we can come with.

All you need to do is connect the DVD player to either Component 1 or 2 on the VP30 select that input and you are good to go. Any processed analog connection (composite, S-Video, component, RGBHV) will come out on the HDMI output.

JimmyR. I just realized (been a long day) that I use component out of my Sony 875 megachangers, as it has no HDMI. The VP 30 does all the necessary transcoding. Just cable the megachanger in on component with the audio coing from Toslink or Coaxial digital, and tell the VP30 to output to the PJ on HDMI it handles all of the conversion, trancodings and scalings.

The VP 30 has totally independent Input and outputs. It will handle what ever is required.

I've experienced an HDMI compatibility issue between the Marantz DV 9600 and the VP30. The DV is set up for 480i out and is connected via HDMI. I have it connected to HDMI-2. I have the H10-250 connected to HDMI-1. When I switch from HDMI-1 to HDMI-2 ( DVD), the VP displays it in 4:3 format instead of the 16:9 that I have the DVD Player and VP30 set up for. When I look at the VP30 configuration menu, the input Aspect Ratio is listed as 4:3-1.78:1. It doesn't happen every time.

To recover I have to go into the DVD set-up menu and change the output to 720P then back to 480i. Then the VP config menu lists it as 16:9-1.78:1 as it should.

TWD,
I believe this issue will be corrected in the next firmware upgrade. I 'm experiencing similar issues via an Arcam DV29 (hdmi). In discussion with Josh from DVDO, he stated that there was a EDID table change after the initial firmware on the VP30 which affects the settings on your player when handshaking on start up.
This firmware upgrade will allow you to select which EDID table you would like on a per input basis.
To try and remedy this issue now, go into your dvd setup menu and stop the players hdmi setting from trying to auto plug'n'play handshake to the VP30. What I done was change the "Digital Video Priority " HDMI setting from Digital to Analog. This stopped the EDID table changing my preferred settings of 'progressive off' and 16:9.
Hope it helps !!

[QUOTE=Nic Rhodes] "The Old Arcams (79 and 29) are well worth trying for their HDMI SD interlaced output. Their MPEG decoder isn't as good as a Philips963 but the combination works well, VERY well."

These players are not that old (12 months) and from the testing I have performed visually, their Mpeg decoding is second to none.In fact the Dvd playback thru these players was better than any Dvd player you care to mention this side of $3500 usd.Where this player was picked on was that they are using the Zoran Vaddis 5 chipset for scaling and de-interlacing. Since all this is bypassed and now handled thru the vp30 via hdmi @ 480i / 576i , the Arcam DV29 is phenominal. :cool:

[QUOTE=Nic Rhodes] "The Old Arcams (79 and 29) are well worth trying for their HDMI SD interlaced output. Their MPEG decoder isn't as good as a Philips963 but the combination works well, VERY well."

These players are not that old (12 months) and from the testing I have performed visually, their Mpeg decoding is second to none.In fact the Dvd playback thru these players was better than any Dvd player you care to mention this side of $3500 usd.Where this player was picked on was that they are using the Zoran Vaddis 5 chipset for scaling and de-interlacing. Since all this is bypassed and now handled thru the vp30 via hdmi @ 480i / 576i , the Arcam DV29 is phenominal. :cool:
Have you compared the Arcams to an SDI modded Philips 963 yet?

I've both here, both SDI modded, and I think they're about equal in image quality. The Arcam has more CUE problems than the Philips, btw, which the iScan removes well, though.

[QUOTE=Nic Rhodes] "The Old Arcams (79 and 29) are well worth trying for their HDMI SD interlaced output. Their MPEG decoder isn't as good as a Philips963 but the combination works well, VERY well."

These players are not that old (12 months) and from the testing I have performed visually, their Mpeg decoding is second to none.In fact the Dvd playback thru these players was better than any Dvd player you care to mention this side of $3500 usd.Where this player was picked on was that they are using the Zoran Vaddis 5 chipset for scaling and de-interlacing. Since all this is bypassed and now handled thru the vp30 via hdmi @ 480i / 576i , the Arcam DV29 is phenominal. :cool:

79 is about 1 year now with the 29 older again. I think I was reading the reviews in Christmas 04 for the 29 in our national AV press but I thought it was launched at Cedia in 2004 (sept), getting on for 2 years now.

I love my 29 SDI modded and use it most days BUT the Arcams do process the HDMI image so SDI still gves a better picture than HDMI even with 480i / 576i output. The Philips 963 (SDI) has a better MPEG again and has slightly better (more accurate?) video as a result as do one or two other MPEG decoders. The MPEG in the Arcam I don't think can be called second to none, and I am a big Vadis 5 and 29 fan. The Tosh 9500 is another fine example I use regularly. In fact the Arcam is my machine of preference, as an alrounder, but others can better it if their priorities are different. These SDI machines into a VP30 / ABT102 are quite amazing, in fact good old component into these is special as well. All sorts of ills are corrected by the new board. I watch stuff on my 'old' Tag DVD32R with a smile as the excellence of the Tag is taken by the VP30 / ABT102 and it makes it better. In fact there is only one DVD player on the market even today I feel can compete with a quality interlaced input into the VP30 / ABT102. Not bad considering the Tag is now almost 5 years old.

Which will give you a better picture and why? SDI modded DVD player into the VP30 with SDI module installed or a player with 480i out over HDMI to the VP30 with ABT 102 installed?

The ABT102 is the important bit first, then SDI and then HDMI interlaced input. Feed SDI into the VP30 / ABT102 and you have the best SD I have seen inc a few exotics over the years. I would be more than happy to substitute component analogue input for HDMI interlaced though.

The ABT102 is the important bit first, then SDI and then HDMI interlaced input. Feed SDI into the VP30 / ABT102 and you have the best SD I have seen inc a few exotics over the years. I would be more than happy to substitute component analogue input for HDMI interlaced though.

But, wouldn't this depend on how the player uses the 480i output? Some still add a minimal amount of "processing", while others provide pure passthrough to the scaler. If a player provides pure passthrough at 480i, I don't see how SDI can be an improvement. It even adds an additional passthrough connection that straight 480i out via HDMI does not.

Here is a good one. I have an DV9600 DVD player that has ABT scaling in it. It can output 1080P. I have it connected via HDMI to the VP30. The VP30 does not recognize the 1080P input - unknown format.

Josh, Dale, any suggestions?

Thanks

But, wouldn't this depend on how the player uses the 480i output? Some still add a minimal amount of "processing", while others provide pure passthrough to the scaler. If a player provides pure passthrough at 480i, I don't see how SDI can be an improvement. It even adds an additional passthrough connection that straight 480i out via HDMI does not.


IIRC, Dale mentioned here that 480i HDMI can be indistinguishable from SDI.

If you can find a good 480i HDMI pass-through why spend extra $ for SDI?

Here is a good one. I have an DV9600 DVD player that has ABT scaling in it. It can output 1080P. I have it connected via HDMI to the VP30. The VP30 does not recognize the 1080P input - unknown format.



Why are you sending a scaled-signal to a scaler? :confused:
Try sending 480i HDMI and see what happens.
I believe Kris Deering was impressed with this signal.

-I have now sold my elderly plasma TV, and will buy a new one pretty soon.

I was wondering; what is your experience: is it better to buy a professional monitor type display, or is a consumer model with built-in tuner just as good when it comes to achieving 1:1 pixel ratio, and overall get the best out of the VP30? Is the circuitry in a TV w/built-in tuner bypassed successfully when using the VP30 on it? I'm buying a 50" next.

-I have now sold my elderly plasma TV, and will buy a new one pretty soon.

I was wondering; what is your experience: is it better to buy a professional monitor type display, or is a consumer model with built-in tuner just as good when it comes to achieving 1:1 pixel ratio, and overall get the best out of the VP30? Is the circuitry in a TV w/built-in tuner bypassed successfully when using the VP30 on it? I'm buying a 50" next.

Best if you look at the native rate thread .... if you're in the US, you'll have less problems achieving 1:1, since many plasmas do 1:1 @ 60hz..... (NEC (consumer & pro), Pana pro & pio pro achieve 1:1 @ 60hz).


However, (since you're in Norway) if you want 1:1 at different refresh rates (like 48/72 for NTSC and 50hz for Pal film and TV) then the pio professional does on digital and analogue inputs .... the pana pro does on analogue inputs..... there are lots more infor on the native rate thread.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=647231

also, as far as I know, the only consumer panel which will do 1:1 with a scaler is the NEC XR4/XR5 range.... not sure about the new pioneer consumer range which is coming out in a few months time....

But, wouldn't this depend on how the player uses the 480i output? Some still add a minimal amount of "processing", while others provide pure passthrough to the scaler. If a player provides pure passthrough at 480i, I don't see how SDI can be an improvement. It even adds an additional passthrough connection that straight 480i out via HDMI does not.

Sure it does, so far I have tested the Arcams and the Pioneers that allow this. SDI is just better every time. I have yet to see a 'pure' pass through though, they are all having processing done to them to get them through HDMI, the SDI just takes the output of the MPEG decoder and serializes it. This is a very simple process to do hence DIYers can do the SDI mods. The differences are small in comparison to what the ABT102 does however an hence I think this is the important bit here, it a very capable device. Don't believe the manufacturers claims of passthrough until you have seen it yourself. Possible to do well yes, as good as SDI?

IIRC, Dale mentioned here that 480i HDMI was indistinguishable from SDI.

If you can find a good 480i HDMI pass-through why spend extra $ for SDI?
If you already have an SDI module in your VP, then adding another in your player for around the USD150 does make some sense as it reputedly is going to be on parr or cost less than a new 480/576i HDMI player. If you already have a very good transport player, like the Oppo 971H, it makes perfect sense to go this route.

For me, another big plus is also no HDCP - ever!! That means trouble free connection to your VP and an absolute guarantee that the signal will pass to your VP unadulterated. HDMI is serial data too, so no gain here compared to SDI, unless your MPEG decoder puts the data out serially and then passes it it out unprocessed. It will need to be processed however as it needs to be encoded with HDCP for starters. This may at best add zero artifacts, but serialising the data to SDI is guaranteed to add none. At the receiving end, both HDMI and SDI need to be turned into parallel data internally, so there's no difference here.

Does the VP30 have a fan (hope not, hate fan noise) and if so is it quite?

Does the VP30 have a fan (hope not, hate fan noise) and if so is it quite?
no fan

Thanks, One more question please
From DVDO web site under the specifications for the VP 30 it says
"The DVDO® iScan™ VP30 is a high-definition video processor and A/V hub that converts standard or high definition from your DVD player, VCR, PVR, HD set top box, game console, or PC to any output resolution between 480p and 1080p, including popular HDTV resolutions such as 720p and 1080i."

Does this or will this pass thru 1080p. Or will there be a fw update for this

Oink,

Why does the VP30 have a 1080P input? And what does it matter if it is scaled or not? DVDO advertises that the VP30 can process a 1080P input. I was just going thru the inputs to see if they worked. Every other input res works fine.

In the future, I will probably get a BR or HD DVD player that will output 1080P. I would like to connect to the VP30 via HDMI and if nothing else use it as a HDMI switcher. Bottom line is if it's a feature of the product it should work.

Does anyone know how to set the advanced format features for a Samsung HLS series DLP that has a 1080P input. I am not getting 1:1 pixel matching.

I am sending 1080P from my VP30, but I am not getting pixel matching based on the checkerboard, horizontal, and vertical test patterns.

I am thinking that it may be an adjustment to the advanced format features in the VP30 or an adjustment in the DLP service menu.

thanks

IIRC, Dale mentioned here that 480i HDMI was indistinguishable from SDI.
Not quite. It can be the same as SDI, but that doesn't mean that any particular implementation of it is. HDMI can pass exactly the same 4:2:2 YCbCr signal that SDI does. Whether a given device does that or not is another matter. It's all too common for the HDMI outputs to be further processed in some way, whereas SDI, given the nature of its custom installation and direct connection to the MPEG decoder, virtually never does this.

- Dale Adams

Yes, we need the VP30 to accept 1080p sources. I really like the HDMI SWITCHER feature and plan to still use it in the near future. Can anyone (DVDO employee expert) confirm this for us? :)

Any change we could get an option to force film mode or tighter film bias with NTSC material? I think ABT102 drops to video mode too often with some material.

Yes, I've tried that. It helps a little (deinterlacer goes faster to film mode when scene changes) but still drops to video mode on some occasions I wouldn't like it to happen. A good solution would be a film bias adjustment with several levels, including forcing to film mode.

Right. I've had quite a little time to do testing, but Lois&Clark Season 2 R1 gives a lot of problems. No particular scene, problems occur quite often over the episodes. I would love to hear Dale's analysis over this.
I looked at the Lois & Clark season 1 discs. Presumably this is the same as the season 2 discs, as I noticed visual problems right away. (If you know that this is not the case, please let me know and I'll look for season 2.) Initially, I just picked an episode at random and chose the first episode on the second disc. I immediately saw artifacts which I would have guessed were caused by the ABT102 dropping in and out of lock. These were present in most scenes, with a few obvious ones at the beginning of this episode being a pan past a copy machine, Perry White lecturing a group of reporters, and Lex Luthor lowering a pair of binoculars while standing on his balcony.

However, when I analyzed all these I saw that the ABT102 was actually in cadence lock on every one of them. In other words, all the artifacts I was seeing in these scenes that I thought were attributable to the ABT102 were, in fact, encoded on the disc itself. This was surprising, as many of these looked exactly like what I would expect if the deinterlacer were flipping in and out of lock (although they were present in scenes where I would not have expected the deinterlacer to drop out of lock).

Looking at this disc a bit more closely, it was obvious that it was mastered from a composite video copy, as there were Y/C separation artifacts throughout the image. Furthermore, it was encoded on the disc as video without using the DVD flags for field repetition, so that fields which should have been identical were in fact quite different. There were numerous other problems as well. It's really a very bad transfer.

A lot of the visual problems you see are actually encoded on the disc itself. That doesn't mean the ABT102 isn't struggling with this material. It is. The ABT102 has a number of detection mechanisms for bad quality sources, bad edits, mixed source types, and other issues. This disc triggers many of these. This is particularly true when there's a very low level of motion, as the disc's problems begin to swamp out all the valid cadence indicators. Consequently, it appears as if the ABT102 is dropping in and out of lock all the time. Sometimes this is true, but often it is not.

With respect to the idea of forcing to a film mode - this can be done with 2:2 pulldown detection (and the VP30 supports this), but it isn't really practical with 3:2 pulldown material for a number of reasons. First of all, there are 5 different detection phases for 3:2 (and only two for 2:2), so the user would have to step through each one and select the correct one for the current video material. However, as soon as there's scene transition the correct choice could change. This is definitely true for the Lois & Clark disc, as while the video material does appear to have been shot on film and has a 3:2 cadence, it also appears to have been edited without respect to that cadence. The result is that most scene transitions are bad edits and break the 3:2 pulldown cadence. On some of these there's a single field taken from an original film frame and the 102 drops momentarily to video mode, while on others the cadence is broken but the 102 can still track through the break. In any of these cases, though, a manual 3:2 phase selection would become incorrect at the transition, resulting in combing artifacts as the wrong fields were merged. Anything that adjusts for all this would be an automatic cadence detection mechanism like the ABT102 has now. In either case you'd have problems with a source like the L&C disc.

Now, it may be possible to offer a mode with a stronger bias towards film. I'll consider this, but I suspect that you'd likely start to see other problems with such a mode, such as poor bad edit detection and more instances of combing.

- Dale Adams

Not quite. It can be the same as SDI, but that doesn't mean that any particular implementation of it is. HDMI can pass exactly the same 4:2:2 YCbCr signal that SDI does. Whether a given device does that or not is another matter. It's all too common for the HDMI outputs to be further processed in some way, whereas SDI, given the nature of its custom installation and direct connection to the MPEG decoder, virtually never does this.

- Dale Adams


Thank you for the correction...editing post now. ;)

Does anyone know how to set the advanced format features for a Samsung HLS series DLP that has a 1080P input. I am not getting 1:1 pixel matching.

I am sending 1080P from my VP30, but I am not getting pixel matching based on the checkerboard, horizontal, and vertical test patterns.

I am thinking that it may be an adjustment to the advanced format features in the VP30 or an adjustment in the DLP service menu.

thanks Is DNIE defeatable in your TV? If so, trying turning it off. Some Samsungs won't allow it. I'd try turning off any feature/setting that has the word "automatic" associated with it. :)

larry

Thanks Popper,

It is defeatable but no change

However, when I analyzed all these I saw that the ABT102 was actually in cadence lock on every one of them. In other words, all the artifacts I was seeing in these scenes that I thought were attributable to the ABT102 were, in fact, encoded on the disc itself. This was surprising, as many of these looked exactly like what I would expect if the deinterlacer were flipping in and out of lock (although they were present in scenes where I would not have expected the deinterlacer to drop out of lock).Dale, thank you very much for this analysis, really appreciate it. I believe the problems on season 2 are the same kind as on season 1.

The 1080p RP DLPs do not contain 1920 physical mirrors. They are 960x1080 and use what some call wobbulation. I am not sure if you can actually get 1:1 with this type of disiplay.

I should know the answer in a few weeks.

I checked the VP30 manual and it does not support a 1080P input.

My apologies.

The 1080p RP DLPs do not contain 1920 physical mirrors. They are 960x1080 and use what some call wobbulation. I am not sure if you can actually get 1:1 with this type of display.

I should know the answer in a few weeks.

You can get 1:1 mapping. On my set which is last years model you have to go into the service menu and go to the 1080i overscan setting. You have to turn it on then off and you will get 1:1 mapping.
Even though it shows as off it defaults to on when you turn the TV back on. By turning on then off it will actually turn the overscan off which gives you 1:1 pixel mapping with the test pattern. That is the first thing I do when I turn my set on. It only takes 5 seconds but it is one the the bugs with the firmware from last years Samsung 1080P DLP sets.

Wobulation technology does allow 1:1 pixel mapping. The resolution of a 1x1 checkerboard will not be perfectly sharp, but you will not see any scaling artifacts.

Samsung has occasionally made it difficult to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping. On my wobulated 720p set 1:1 pixel mapping could be achieved by choosing the "Expand" picture mode in the user menu. On the HLR 1080p sets you had futz with the service menu and if I recall correctly the results did not stick after a power cycle. I haven't played with an HLS yet. Hopefully they can achieve 1:1 pixel mapping easily. sspears, I'll be interested in hearing your results.

According to several PMs I've received, the fact that the 1x1 checkerboard is not razor sharp is sometimes a source of confusion for users looking for 1x1 pixel mapping on their wobulated sets. I posted earlier in this thread examples of the 1x1 checkerboard pattern being scaled vs. being pixel mapped. The difference is quite noticeable even from the distance the photos were taken. These shots are of a wobulated 720p set. Check out the following links.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6815139&&#post6815139
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6815153&&#post6815153

Cheers,
Collin

Collin,

Regarding post #4322:

I have the HLP5685 (Kirk) 720p.
How would I achieve 1:1 pm?

Collin,

Regarding post #4322:

I have the HLP5685 (Kirk) 720p.
How would I achieve 1:1 pm?

This one's pretty easy if I recall correctly. Feed the set 720p and choose "Expand" for a picture mode.

- Collin

In the future, I will probably get a BR or HD DVD player that will output 1080P. I would like to connect to the VP30 via HDMI and if nothing else use it as a HDMI switcher. Bottom line is if it's a feature of the product it should work.
I am looking forward to the 1080p passthru switching capability too.

I guess there will be a s/w upgrade for that soon.. (ref link below)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6894077&&#post6894077

There is an overscan option in the service menu under SDF52. It is ON. If you turn it off, you get the correct 1:1 pixel matching patterns (checkerboard, vertical lines, horizontal lines) from the ISCAN VP30. I tried it and really didn't see any difference other then the screen shrunk a bit. I put it back ON. I don't want to be messing with it until someone smarter then me says that is the way to do it.

Caution: For any new folks out there. Don't mess with the settings in the SM unless you know what you are doing. You can really screw things up.

You don't need to have 5% overscan especially if you are runnning everything through the vp30. You can let the vp30 adjust the overscan/underscan. I personally have no desire to miss 5% of the picture. I have it set between 0% and 2% with the vp30 depending on the source that is used.

Hey, I have a quick question. What is the preferred colorspace setting using HDMI? The 4:2:2 or the 4:4:4? I am using the Vp30 with a Ruby. :)

:confused: Hi,
A new member here so go slow with me. I was wondering if anyone has a picture of their display with the horizontal and vertical lines showing in the test patterns. I had a panasonic plasma which did not show it as you can't bypass the processor and now I have a new Samsung dlp that accepts 1080p, it shows the horizontal and vertical lines in the two test patterns but the vp30 manual states they should be 1 pixel wide. It does not seem like what I see on the Samsung is 1 pixel wide... can you even differentiate horizontal lines that are 1 pixel wide?
Thanks.

I just purchased a new Dell XPS400 with an Nvidia 7300LE video card. I am using a DVI to HDMI connection to the VP30 then to the Optoma H78DC3. My question is this. When I display content of any kind on the 20" digital widescreen that came with the computer all content is properly displayed in 16:9 format (i.e. no cropping of any kind). When I display the output on the H78 through the VP30 the picture displays in 4:3 mode only. Switching the projector settings will not give me 16:9 and I can't seem to find any way to adjust the computers video settings or the VP30 settings to replicate the 16:9 output of the 20" digital flat screen without cropping content. Also, output from the video card does not allow the VP30 to go into deinterlacing mode so that I can take advantage of the game mode while gaming on the PC. Do I have to just stick with a direct connection to the projector and forget about the VP30 for PC gaming? Thanks for any help here.

brianhd1000 - What resolution are you outputting from your Dell? Have you tried 1280x720@60Hz?

brianhd1000 - What resolution are you outputting from your Dell? Have you tried 1280x720@60Hz?

Josh, I think the resolution is ???x768. Sorry I can't recall the first number without looking at the computer's settings. If I were to set the video card to 1280x720 assuming this resolution is available would that do the trick? Also, any comment regarding the PC gaming and the inability to use the ABT102 game mode while outputting from the Nvidia card.

Also, any comment regarding the PC gaming and the inability to use the ABT102 game mode while outputting from the Nvidia card.

The deinterlacing modes are for interlaced soures. The output of your PC is progressive.

I just purchased a new Dell XPS400 with an Nvidia 7300LE video card. I am using a DVI to HDMI connection to the VP30 then to the Optoma H78DC3. My question is this. When I display content of any kind on the 20" digital widescreen that came with the computer all content is properly displayed in 16:9 format (i.e. no cropping of any kind). When I display the output on the H78 through the VP30 the picture displays in 4:3 mode only. Switching the projector settings will not give me 16:9 and I can't seem to find any way to adjust the computers video settings or the VP30 settings to replicate the 16:9 output of the 20" digital flat screen without cropping content. Also, output from the video card does not allow the VP30 to go into deinterlacing mode so that I can take advantage of the game mode while gaming on the PC. Do I have to just stick with a direct connection to the projector and forget about the VP30 for PC gaming? Thanks for any help here.

You want to set the H78dc3 to native setting not 16:9 or any other mode. Then output 1280x720p50hz or 1280x720p60hz (or 48, 72 but thats for later). in this mode the optoma will be pixel perfect native mapping you can check this with the 3 test signals found on the vp30 (hoz. vert. and checkerboard). All the other tuning have to be done inside the vp30 by using multiple output profiles. The most logical output for the pc is 1280x720x60 probably and should result in a perfect match (atleast does this for me from a ATI 9800xt card. Do check the input signal aspect on the vp30 that normally defaults to 4:3 until you set it to 16:9.

Hope this helps atleast this works without many problems for me into a H78, with sdi, rgbs and a mac mini and a windows htpc as inputs. And H78 and 2 monitors as outputs (1 for previewing). This does mean i have used most of the 10 output profiles :).

Daniel.

I am a little confused. If I have only one display connected, and I always want it to be in the same format (16:9) at the same resolution 1280x720p which is the NR of the display providing 1:1 Pixel mapping, Why would I ever want more than 1 display profile?

What am I missing?

I am a little confused. If I have only one display connected, and I always want it to be in the same format (16:9) at the same resolution 1280x720p which is the NR of the display providing 1:1 Pixel mapping, Why would I ever want more than 1 display profile?

What am I missing?

Well he was talking about 2 displays, I also have more profiles to do things like vertical shift (placing 2.35 in the 16:9 box) or change the speed at which you run the display.But i agree once you get 1:1 mapping that should be stable but the output settings have more settings than that.

Daniel.

I am a little confused. If I have only one display connected, and I always want it to be in the same format (16:9) at the same resolution 1280x720p which is the NR of the display providing 1:1 Pixel mapping, Why would I ever want more than 1 display profile?

What am I missing?


Thanks Josh for the codes.

As an example.

Profile 1 : 16:9 movie NR nothing else changed.

Profile 2 : 1.85 movie NR output aspect ratio 1:85 (small bars top and bottom) use shift command to move it down to bottom edge of screen.

Profile 3 : 4:3 movie NR output to 16:9 with croped top and bottom to simulate NLS sharpness increase by 2 as most old movies are crap source.....

Profile 4 : 2.35 movie NR and use shift command to move it down so that there is no bottom black bar.

Does the profiles make more sense now? :p

Oliver

Thanks for the reply. I understand the use of shift. I need to think about wether I like the image better centered or dropped.

I see nobody responded to which is the ideal colorspace setting for using HDMI. 4:2:2 or 4:4:4? Josh do you have an opinion? I am using a Sony Ruby with my VP30.... :)

If the Ruby accepts it, 4:4:4

As far as color space, check the display. For example, I have a RP Samsung that accepts HDMI at RGB, 422 and 444. If I feed it 422 or 444, it clips, so I feed it RGB. Actually, the HDMI input sucks, so I switched over to DVI. (lots of issues with quality on its HDMI in)

Why would I ever want more than 1 display profile?

I use it for frame rate. I have my SDI input set to 48 Hz and the HDMI from HD DVD and HD TiVo set to 60 Hz.

Thanks. It does. And as far as I can tell so far it looks great in 4:4:4 colorspace mode. I guess I will leave it there... :)

Joe - should I assume the VP30 helps the Ruby immensely? - I saw a demo of one over M day - the dealer should be shot. Either that, or he just didn't want to sell Rubys. He had one connected to a THX demo dvd, at 480p (or i - who knows.) It looked a lot worse than my Runco and VP30. So much so that the wife wanted to know WHY that projector is the best out there? (my words - I wanted her to see what everyone has been raving about.) But gaack - the Sony's onboard scaler must be horrid - I saw HD-DVD on an SXRD rptv and it looked awesome.

Tell us that the VP30 mightily helps your Ruby also. Thanks.

I think the HD DVD looked great without the VP30. Regular dvd looks okay. Satelite looks okay, but nothing to write home about. D-THEATER looks great without the VP30 as well. I just love the VP30s HDMI switching and all the other little options it has to offer. Now I send all sources to the Ruby at 1080i since the Ruby does do 1080i deinterlacing top notch. With the inverse telicine and motion adaptive deinterlacing the Ruby does exceptional with 1080i sources. This setup will let you SEE what the Ruby is capable of. To bad you and your wife could not see it hooked up correctly. I am still in shock after only day 4 with mine. Satelite looks even better. D-THEATER and HD DVD is the best HD I have seen thus far. I expect the same results from BD. This truly gives you the "being there" feeling... Especially when I show people the Toshiba HD DVD DEMO disc, those previews and trailors are beyond words! :)

Thanks for the reply. I understand the use of shift. I need to think about wether I like the image better centered or dropped.

Well for me (using frontprojection) dropping the 2.35 inside the 16:9 window means that i can easer mask the top part and the image height gets lower making it fit the 'eyes in the last 1/3 of the screen' fit easer.

Daniel.

I think the HD DVD looked great without the VP30. Regular dvd looks okay. Satelite looks okay, but nothing to write home about. D-THEATER looks great without the VP30 as well. I just love the VP30s HDMI switching and all the other little options it has to offer. Now I send all sources to the Ruby at 1080i since the Ruby does do 1080i deinterlacing top notch. With the inverse telicine and motion adaptive deinterlacing the Ruby does exceptional with 1080i sources. This setup will let you SEE what the Ruby is capable of. To bad you and your wife could not see it hooked up correctly. I am still in shock after only day 4 with mine. Satelite looks even better. D-THEATER and HD DVD is the best HD I have seen thus far. I expect the same results from BD. This truly gives you the "being there" feeling... Especially when I show people the Toshiba HD DVD DEMO disc, those previews and trailors are beyond words! :)
From reading posts on the "Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3500 USD MSRP and Up" threads and experimenting with the Ruby, I found that 1080i only gives you 540P resolution. With the VP30, the Ruby processes full 1080P.
Jeremy

Im guessing 1080i is really 540P and not much better then 480. 720 may be the optimal
setting from your DVD player.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7285344&&#post7285344


Alan, You are correct, according to the input info on the Ruby, 540P shows up as 1080/60i.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7289725&&#post7289725

I used the vp30 to send a 1080i horizontal test signal to the Ruby via HDMI. The signal consisted of one solid black field and one solid white field and when ideally deinterlaced, should form a 1080P frame of 1080 alternate horizontal black and white lines.

The VP30 processor provided 3 test signals to check deinterlacing and 1-1 pixel mapping of my Ruby. Both the vertical and checkerboard test patterns showed the correct alternating black and white field patterns making up the 1080P frame, but the horizontal test pattern produced a 1080P black frame.

The Ruby must be deinterlacing/scaling by doubling one interlaced field, the solid black field in this case and not using the related white field, to produce the 1080P frame and projecting only 540P in essence.

Fortunately, with the VP30 and using 1.07 software, the horizontal test pattern outputs @ 1080P with both the related black and white fields in a complete frame via the HDMI 1080P signal to the Ruby and is passed through intact, the Ruby projecting 1080 black and white lines. As far as I can tell, the same maximum resolution is used by the Ruby for all 1080P signals sent out by the vp30.

Paul

Thanks Paul! I only have had my Ruby for 4 days now so I will switch the VP30 to 1080p. If that is the ideal setting for the maxium resolution then I will definitely use it. Thanks again for reporting your results... :)

Definitely 1080p for the Ruby. very sweet spot for me.

Cool! I am switching it tonite! :)

FThe VP30 processor provided 3 test signals to check deinterlacing and 1-1 pixel mapping of my Ruby. Both the vertical and checkerboard test patterns showed the correct alternating black and white field patterns making up the 1080P frame, but the horizontal test pattern produced a 1080P black frame.

The Ruby must be deinterlacing/scaling by doubling one interlaced field, the solid black field in this case and not using the related white field, to produce the 1080P frame and projecting only 540P in essence.
Don't judge the Ruby's 1080i performance with this test pattern. Back when we developed the iScan HD we found that alternating black and white horizontal lines at 1080i caused CRT displays to flash alternating black and white full screen images. At the very least this was extremely annoying, and at worst it might act as a trigger for someone with a photosensitive epilepsy condition. (Granted, this would be quite rare, but we didn't want to take the chance.) Consequently, we inhibited this particular test pattern for 1080i output and only put out a full black screen. I believe the VP30 still does the same thing with this test pattern when the output resolution is 1080i.

- Dale Adams

So Dale should we be sending 1080p from the VP30 or 1080i to the Ruby?

Joe

I would use the display profile feature and set the output to 1080i for your HD sources (assuming 1080i in). If the input is 720p, then set the output to 1080p. For SD sources, set the output to 1080p.

The reason is the Ruby will do inverse telecine on 1080i while the VP30 will not. It is not great inverse telecine, but it is better than nothing, so to speak. For SD sources, you want to take advantage of the ABT102 inverse telecine capability. For 720p HD, it is already progressive, so scaling is all you need.

So Dale should we be sending 1080p from the VP30 or 1080i to the Ruby?
I have no idea. It all depends on how the Ruby handles each of these. I don't have a Ruby and have never seen one, so I certainly can't tell you. Why not just try it and see which looks better to you?

- Dale Adams

I was only wondering from a technical stand point. I will be experimenting... Gotta love this hobby! :)

I was only wondering from a technical stand point. I will be experimenting... Gotta love this hobby! :)

From a technical standpoint, 4:4:4 is 8-bit and 4:2:2 is 10-bit.

dale,

wow, that's nuts, LOL....

I have no idea. It all depends on how the Ruby handles each of these. I don't have a Ruby and have never seen one, so I certainly can't tell you. Why not just try it and see which looks better to you?

- Dale Adams

:D you mean trust their own eyes and not the experts. You must be kidding :D

Thanks Josh! :) 4:2:2 it is...

I noticed that when using 4:2:2 it does not pass blacker than black in the test pattern, but when using the RGB colorspace it does.

Donmonte,

It sounds like you are experiencing what I described. Your display is clipping when it converts 422 to RGB, so you are better off using RGB.

i've tried this product and i'm not sure if i had a faulty unit but it's really not for me and my dealer was less than helpful .i won't be buying it for sure until dvdo can make something that's more user friendly

ishanty - What in particular did you find not 'user friendly'?

i've tried this product and i'm not sure if i had a faulty unit but it's really not for me and my dealer was less than helpful .i won't be buying it for sure until dvdo can make something that's more user friendly

The VP30 is very user firendly. It has two modes advanced and basic and the basic mode is very easy to use.

i had a demo unit yesterday from a dealer that asured me it was setup to work with my display phd8 panny now i have sky plus rbg to component and each time i tried to set it up i got a message saying ""please contact your dealer"" which i done on several times and each time he was getting back to me and never. all i'm saying is that i may have had a faulty unit of which i was not at all impressed.

please contact your dealer

The VP30 displayed this message??

i had a demo unit yesterday from a dealer that asured me it was setup to work with my display phd8 panny now i have sky plus rbg to component and each time i tried to set it up i got a message saying ""please contact your dealer"" which i done on several times and each time he was getting back to me and never. all i'm saying is that i may have had a faulty unit of which i was not at all impressed.

There should have been an error code associated with this message. Do you know what it was?

Donmonte,

It sounds like you are experiencing what I described. Your display is clipping when it converts 422 to RGB, so you are better off using RGB.


Hello sspears,

I can't seem to get 100% 1:1 mapping also; on the checkerboard, horizontal and vertical test pattern. I am outputting 1280*720p and from my display a DOMINO 55M, the output aspect ratio is manualy set to horizontal and vertical -1. If set to pixel to pixel the patterns are all messed up and distorted, if set to -1 the patterns are much better and i see a gray screen, but if i stand next to the screen, i noticed that there is still some distortion left; for example the horizontal and vertical lines are present but they are not continuous, it is as if they are interfering with each other.
I can't seem to get a better result no matter what i try, but the picture quality is still excellent. I also notice that when using pixel to pixel the picture is much sharper than when using the other option. Do you think there might be a problem?
Does it still mean that the processor in my screen is working, if so what are the drawbacks of having the 2 of them working at the same time?
By the way great DVD!!

Regards

Josh,

I'm still anxious to hear about the revised release date of non-linear stretch modes.

Any updates? You posted to this thread prevously that we could expect it in March/April.

bradesp

Previously, I posted that we will have 'Panorama' mode available by the end of May. This date has slipped a week or two. I will update here as we are getting closer to a Beta release.

Just to clarify this will be a preset 'Panorama' mode, not the 'modes' that you suggest in your query.

Josh,

Will there be any customization capabilities for this mode (top/bottom/side clipping as well as control over the range of NL Stretch)?

I'm not talking about the initial release but in your final roadmap?

Hi Josh

Could you give us an idea if this new beta is likely to address some or all of the audio issues which have been reported?

pete S

Josh,

Will there be any customization capabilities for this mode (top/bottom/side clipping as well as control over the range of NL Stretch)?

I'm not talking about the initial release but in your final roadmap?

If we are using the sizing option to crop and stretch the 4:3 into 1 16:9 display, what do we lose over a proper NLS implemention? That is other then having to settle for a linear stretch, do we lose out in terms of PQ?

Oliver

Previously, I posted that we will have 'Panorama' mode available by the end of May. This date has slipped a week or two. I will update here as we are getting closer to a Beta release.

Just to clarify this will be a preset 'Panorama' mode, not the 'modes' that you suggest in your query.

I suppose for some this is good news Josh but for me its not really that important. Enjoying easy selection of the "Panarama" mode requires a person to have a remote that allows easy selection between 16x9, 4x3, Lettebox and Panarama as required. Since most of us cant get our Pronto's to work with any new remote codes on the VP30 this will be a wasted feature as far as I am concerned. Not to mention the irritation of having to live with the the audio dropouts while trying in vain to change display modes.

As you may have gathered I am finding the new product annoucements (VP20, Panarama etc) a little annoying so this post is definitly a vent. Most of us have lived with the VP30 since the beginning of the year and it still has major problems that do not appear, to the casual owner like me, to be getting the attention it deserves from DVDO. I am about to start adding HDMI devices to the VP30 and from what else I have read am expecting a load of problems with that too. I think it is time for DVDO to come clean about the progress being made towards fixing these problems and actually delivering a fit for purpose device to the paying public. At least a bi-weekly update about where DVDO are with the bugs would help calm many of our anxieties.

But then again if the VP20 is delivered with audio droppouts, HDMI and remote control problems then at least us VP30 owners will not feel like we are the only ones being pushed aside in favour of new product development and interesting marketing gimmicks for new prospective clients. Im sure one month after the VP20 release you will inform the forum about the VPx0 and HD super interlacing card and the VP20 owners will then need to wait a year for their bug fixes to eventually come out too. I might even grin a little when they start to vent.

With warmest regard
Hans

Previously, I posted that we will have 'Panorama' mode available by the end of May. This date has slipped a week or two. I will update here as we are getting closer to a Beta release.

Just to clarify this will be a preset 'Panorama' mode, not the 'modes' that you suggest in your query.

My bad, for some reason I had incorrectly been thinking you were shooting for March.

Regarding the Preset Panorama... is it possible in the future you may provide some "tweakability" to the Panorama settings?

thanks,

bradesp

I suppose for some this is good news Josh but for me its not really that important. Enjoying easy selection of the "Panarama" mode requires a person to have a remote that allows easy selection between 16x9, 4x3, Lettebox and Panarama as required. Since most of us cant get our Pronto's to work with any new remote codes on the VP30 this will be a wasted feature as far as I am concerned. Not to mention the irritation of having to live with the the audio dropouts while trying in vain to change display modes.

As you may have gathered I am finding the new product annoucements (VP20, Panarama etc) a little annoying so this post is definitly a vent. Most of us have lived with the VP30 since the beginning of the year and it still has major problems that do not appear, to the casual owner like me, to be getting the attention it deserves from DVDO. I am about to start adding HDMI devices to the VP30 and from what else I have read am expecting a load of problems with that too. I think it is time for DVDO to come clean about the progress being made towards fixing these problems and actually delivering a fit for purpose device to the paying public. At least a bi-weekly update about where DVDO are with the bugs would help calm many of our anxieties.

But then again if the VP20 is delivered with audio droppouts, HDMI and remote control problems then at least us VP30 owners will not feel like we are the only ones being pushed aside in favour of new product development and interesting marketing gimmicks for new prospective clients. Im sure one month after the VP20 release you will inform the forum about the VPx0 and HD super interlacing card and the VP20 owners will then need to wait a year for their bug fixes to eventually come out too. I might even grin a little when they start to vent.

With warmest regard
Hans

Isn't the VP20 actually the VP30 with some of the features removed? I would think it would behave just like the VP30 if it used the same inputs.

Isn't the VP20 actually the VP30 with some of the features removed? I would think it would behave just like the VP30 if it used the same inputs.
An observation here, having just looked at the VP20 specs. Apart from not supporting RGBHV input and output ports or SDI, it also has just three HDMI inputs - not four like the VP30. I wonder if different hardware is being used here? It wouldn't surprise me, as using the same hardware in the main as the VP30 and just omitting a few connectors doesn't make much sense.

It would eliminate some features and make it a little cheaper. I think the VP30 is a much better bargain. 3 HDMI inputs isn't enough, heck 4 isn't even enough.

I have to agree with Hans re bug fixing. That has got to become a DVDO priority. I understand the issues with HDMI and all its flavor, charm and quarks. I sympathize with the difficulty of getting it correct, but as I used to tell my software developers, my students and often my kids, "Please don't confuse me with a person who cares about your problems" Worked with all except the kids as they knew better. I paid for an end product not the thrill of watching it develop.

Unfortunately this is not a DVDO only problem. This problem is rampant through all consumer products that depend on software/firmware to do their jobs. IMHO it borders on the criminal and I came from the software industry. It will not change until consumers start throwing back the faulty products and demanding their money back, no matter what the warranty says, and no matter how much time has passed. A toaster must make toast. Not some times, not have to be restarted, not with white spots (dropouts). If a product does not live up to its published performance specifications, or a reasonably implied performance (toaster shall make toast), then it needs to be recalled. Having ranted, . . .

In fact my system has settled down and I see no earth shattering problems. I do get audio dropouts on HDMI and Component. They are very brief. Annoying but not earth shattering. Many more on HDMI than Component. Of course if I do not run audio through the VP30 (losing the tailored lip sync) I get no audio dropouts except when the cable signal goes haywire. This is always verifiable by backing up in the DVR buffer and "playing it again Sam (or Josh)" Sometimes I completely lose the cable DVR signal (Blue screen, obviously borrowed the BSOD feature from Microsoft) which is always fixed by power cycling the VP30. That does not absolve the DVR, just says that some sort of a handshake needed to be re-established and the VP30 knows how to do it but only when placed under duress (power cycled). An IR/RS232 command to do just that would be nice. at least I would not have to get up, open the cabinets, find the power cord . . . A command that says kick this input device in the ass, gently, so it wakes up and gets with the program.

Hans is still right!!!

I have been told (by Josh) that the HDMI interface chips in the VP30 are two interfaces per chip, so I do wonder if they are using a different chip in the VP20 perhaps with better or worse results.

I have been told (by Josh) that the HDMI interface chips in the VP30 are two interfaces per chip, so I do wonder if they are using a different chip in the VP20 perhaps with better or worse results.

Alternatively they could be using the same chips but not using a seperate chip for the Output. Or testing out some new shiny 1.3 chips! :D

I've enjoyed my first audio dropouts on DVD (Component + COAX) this week so maybe doing the rewire thing again (running out of audio inputs on the VP30 anyways).

Unfortunately this is not a DVDO only problem. This problem is rampant through all consumer products that depend on software/firmware to do their jobs. IMHO it borders on the criminal and I came from the software industry. It will not change until consumers start throwing back the faulty products and demanding their money back, no matter what the warranty says, and no matter how much time has passed. A toaster must make toast. Not some times, not have to be restarted, not with white spots (dropouts). If a product does not live up to its published performance specifications, or a reasonably implied performance (toaster shall make toast), then it needs to be recalled.

I am afraid you are an exception. I conclude from the state of the PC industry people just like stuff that half works and I am confident we'll see more and more of the situation you describe in all industries as companies realize the way to success is hype, not product quality.

Fred

I may be an exception but I still buy all these half baked toys and live with thier faults figuring they do make my life better when all is considered. I can dream though.

Hi Guys!
Finally installed my ABT-102 card & updated the firmware to v1.07. Now the picture is not filling the whole screen in HD programming with lower border raised approx 1-2" & falling on the screen instead of the frame. I went into the menu & adjusted both horizontal & vertical zoom. Even then some channels fill the whole screen while others don't. Is this program dependent or am I doing something wrong? I don't recall seeing this prior to firmware upgrade.
Thanks,

Joe

I would use the display profile feature and set the output to 1080i for your HD sources (assuming 1080i in). If the input is 720p, then set the output to 1080p. For SD sources, set the output to 1080p.

The reason is the Ruby will do inverse telecine on 1080i while the VP30 will not. It is not great inverse telecine, but it is better than nothing, so to speak. For SD sources, you want to take advantage of the ABT102 inverse telecine capability. For 720p HD, it is already progressive, so scaling is all you need.
Stacy,

What would be the visible artifacts to look for, projecting from the native 1080P Ruby and using a native film sourced HD DVD, inputting 1080i to the VP30 and outputting 1080P and knowing it doesn't have Hi Def inverse telecine?

Playing several HD DVD's now, I haven't been able to see any combing. Is there anything else to look for? After reading your post, I've been using 1080i output also, to see if I can see a difference, but I honestly must not know where to look for these artifacts, although I think I see rarely, some slight shimmering when outputting 1080i. :confused:

Paul

Edit: Could the Ruby be doing inverse telecine with a 1080P input? :rolleyes:

Stacy,

What would be the visible artifacts to look for, projecting from the native 1080P Ruby and using a native film sourced HD DVD, inputting 1080i to the VP30 and outputting 1080P and knowing it doesn't have Hi Def inverse telecine?

Playing several HD DVD's now, I haven't been able to see any combing. Is there anything else to look for? After reading your post, I've been using 1080i output also, to see if I can see a difference, but I honestly must not know where to look for these artifacts, although I think I see rarely, some slight shimmering when outputting 1080i. :confused:

Paul

Edit: Could the Ruby be doing inverse telecine with a 1080P input? :rolleyes:

You should primarily notice increased vertical resolution. Inverse telecine deinterlacing of film material won't result in combing nor will the bob deinterlacing in the VP30. Your 1080p input cannot have the inverse telecine technique applied because its not interlaced. No processor is going to detect that a 1080p signal is really a bobbed 1080i signal, debob it, and re-deinterlace it using inverse telecine.

- Collin

Inverse telecine deinterlacing of film material won't result in combing nor will the bob deinterlacing in the VP30.
Although it's true that bob deinterlacing will never comb by it's very nature, inverse telecine is actually the cause of most combing. While it simply weaves two fields together to form a progressive frame, it must weave the correct two fields or there will be combing. The hard part is identifying which fields should be combined with 100% accuracy. I don't know of anything which is that accurate, except perhaps a flag-reading DVD player with a perfectly flagged disc. Everything else will sometimes either drop out of lock and revert to a bob or motion-adaptive type of deinterlacing, or will comb because the wrong two fields have been merged (or do both).

Your 1080p input cannot have the inverse telecine technique applied because its not interlaced.
But it can have cadence detection performed on it to identify the source cadence (e.g., 3:2 pulldown) and the original film frames. This is useful to extract the original 24 Hz signal or to frame rate convert the signal to a multiple of that rate.

No processor is going to detect that a 1080p signal is really a bobbed 1080i signal, debob it, and re-deinterlace it using inverse telecine.
Not yet, anyway. :D

- Dale Adams

Thanks Collin and Dale,

I must be confusing the increased vertical resolution, as I think I notice "some slight shimmering when outputting 1080i." I'm going to concentrate on this aspect and hopefully learn to recognize the difference. :cool:

What a great hobby!

Paul

Hi folks,

I have noticed that when watch fast action such as a basketball, I get some break-up (blocking). It could be the source but I didn't notice it before I put the VP30 in my system. Are there any adjustments on the VP30 that would help this?

Here is my set-up. H10-250 to the VP via HDMI at 1080i. HDMI from the VP to the Samsung HLS 5087 at 1080P.

If you are running from a DVR (HR10-250) then back up in the buffer and see if it repeats. If it does it is not the VP30, it is what was received.

If you are running from a DVR (HR10-250) then back up in the buffer and see if it repeats. If it does it is not the VP30, it is what was received.

Something about this doesn't ring true. Surely if you send the same source through the VP30 again, it will simply repeat the same processing it performed on it's first run through....

Using this repeat method you'll never be able to rule out either the source or the video processor as the source of the artefacts...

Dale,

But from what I understand you are also able to cope with different cadences (or mixed video & film) in different regions of the screen with the ABT102, correct?

Hi folks,

I have noticed that when watch fast action such as a basketball, I get some break-up (blocking). It could be the source but I didn't notice it before I put the VP30 in my system. Are there any adjustments on the VP30 that would help this?

Here is my set-up. H10-250 to the VP via HDMI at 1080i. HDMI from the VP to the Samsung HLS 5087 at 1080P.

It's almost certainly the source. Blockiness is generally indicative of digital video compression. Fast movement is a torture test. When you combine this with live sporting events utilizing realtime MPEG2 compressors you see a ton of blockiness. Also DirecTV really constrains the bit rate of the signal further leading to blockiness.

Try a well mastered DVD (HD DVD if you've got it) with fast movement (Star Wars III or something) on your system for comparison. DVDs are almost always compressed with greater care than TV broadcasts. You shouldn't see much if any blockiness.

Heresy on this forum for sure, but I must confess that I've long been underwhelmed by broadcast HD. Higher-res I suppose, but chock full of other image artifacts like you're seeing. I think the blue laser DVD formats will be where HD finally gets to shine and that ball has only just started rolling. The next few years should be exciting.

- Collin

No processor is going to detect that a 1080p signal is really a bobbed 1080i signal, debob it, and re-deinterlace it using inverse telecine.
Not yet, anyway. :D
:eek:

Can you detect bobbed content automatically? An automatic detection (just as your CUE detection) plus automatic "repair" would be downright lovely!

Hi folks,

I have noticed that when watch fast action such as a basketball, I get some break-up (blocking). It could be the source but I didn't notice it before I put the VP30 in my system. Are there any adjustments on the VP30 that would help this?

Here is my set-up. H10-250 to the VP via HDMI at 1080i. HDMI from the VP to the Samsung HLS 5087 at 1080P.
Is this TNT-HD? If so, it's almost certainly the source as Collin noted.

Heresy on this forum for sure, but I must confess that I've long been underwhelmed by broadcast HD. Higher-res I suppose, but chock full of other image artifacts like you're seeing. I think the blue laser DVD formats will be where HD finally gets to shine and that ball has only just started rolling. The next few years should be exciting.

- Collin
Definitely agree, I think we've already seen the best PQ we're going to see from HD and it's only downhill from here, especially with OTA broadcasters getting into the multi-casting game. The new optical media is sure to put HDTV to shame.

Flat Eric,

You would think so, but most of the time it doesn't!! It seems that conditions are different and unless it was actually recorded that way it is often non repeatable.

Was almost ready to buy a VP30 until I read about the problems in this thread! Does anyone know if the latest firmware has solved the audio/video dropout problems? Are the audio dropouts only occuring if you use Toslink on the output from the VP30? I plan to use HDMI since my receiver has HDMI audo, so I'm wondering if you pass audio through the HDMI if you still get the dropouts? Not sure I want to spend 2 grand on a product that doesn't work properly, and audio/video dropouts are my pet peeve: they drive me crazy. Any guidance? I'd be hooking up an RCA HDV5000 HD DVD player and an HR10-250 both via HDMI. On the fence here. My main reason for buying is that I want to be able to shift the 2.35:1 picture around on my plasma and also handle different aspect ratios as I choose.

Thanks,
Mike

Was almost ready to buy a VP30 until I read about the problems in this thread! Does anyone know if the latest firmware has solved the audio/video dropout problems?

I think there have been lots of permutations of configurations and problems seen, some fixed, some apparently still occuring.

I can say in my case, audio problems (due no doubt to interactions between the VP30 and my Theta Casanova) are gone with 1.07. I'm using both Toslink and coax. But I don't use HDMI for anything.

I use analog to my HD set, and never had video problems.

Your mileage may vary...

Was almost ready to buy a VP30 until I read about the problems in this thread! Does anyone know if the latest firmware has solved the audio/video dropout problems? Are the audio dropouts only occuring if you use Toslink on the output from the VP30? I plan to use HDMI since my receiver has HDMI audo, so I'm wondering if you pass audio through the HDMI if you still get the dropouts? Not sure I want to spend 2 grand on a product that doesn't work properly, and audio/video dropouts are my pet peeve: they drive me crazy. Any guidance? I'd be hooking up an RCA HDV5000 HD DVD player and an HR10-250 both via HDMI. On the fence here. My main reason for buying is that I want to be able to shift the 2.35:1 picture around on my plasma and also handle different aspect ratios as I choose.

Thanks,
Mike

If you use it as a video only unit there are no problems that i know of. Most of the problems related to audio or hdmi. Ive used their products for years and they are fine it seems that the adding of the latest audio formats options is resulting in a bad period we are in now they seem to be working on it. So along as you route the audio in the old way things will be fine.

Daniei.

I think there have been lots of permutations of configurations and problems seen, some fixed, some apparently still occuring.

I think "apparently" is being a little too kind. There are without doubt problems with this product and the audio dropouts are just one of the problems. From looking at this thread I would guess that most people are effected by at least one of the audio, hdmi, remote, reboot etc problems. Unless a person is only planning on using the VP30 as a video only scaler, and then possibly without using any HDMI sources I could not in honesty recommend this product at this time. I will be fair and recognise that not all the problems are DVDO's fault but a majority are and need to be sorted out ASAP.

As expected Josh and DVDO are absent from any comment about the bugs. I would add that I am also not very impressed with DVDO's handling of these issues and I personally do not rate their support that highly but then again I was once spoiled by Tag Mclaren support so have an idea of what true customer support can feel like. Darn I miss those days :(

If you use it as a video only unit there are no problems that i know of.

Not quite. There are still HDMI issues with certain sources. I am on 1.07 and my Denon DVD-3910 will not work on HDMI through the VP30 (The handshake occurs repetitively so you only get to watch video of 1 second, blank screen the next, repeat continuously...). HDMI from the Moto 6412 STB is fine and analog is fine.

I think "apparently" is being a little too kind. There are without doubt problems with this product and the audio dropouts are just one of the problems. From looking at this thread I would guess that most people are effected by at least one of the audio, hdmi, remote, reboot etc problems. Unless a person is only planning on using the VP30 as a video only scaler, and then possibly without using any HDMI sources I could not in honesty recommend this product at this time. I will be fair and recognise that not all the problems are DVDO's fault but a majority are and need to be sorted out ASAP.

Please don't put words in my mouth. As I said, I am passing audio through the VP30 and in my setup it is working fine. I have no outstanding problems with the unit right now. I have no way of knowing if "most" people who own the product are having problems.

If you use it as a video only unit there are no problems that i know of. Most of the problems related to audio or hdmi. Ive used their products for years and they are fine it seems that the adding of the latest audio formats options is resulting in a bad period we are in now they seem to be working on it. So along as you route the audio in the old way things will be fine.

Daniei.
There are numerous problems with this approach. First, I use HDMI for all my video and I believe it is the best hookup, so I don't want to lose that. Second, I use HDMI for the audio as well. HDMI has higher specs than Toslink and with the current HD DVD players, it is important to pass the audio via HDMI to get the best sound. When you pass both the audio and video via HDMI, it is very difficult to just separate the sound and send that straight through: they are both going to go through the VP30. Lastly, if you send the sound direct and bypass the VP30, you don't get the lipsync technology which for $2,000 I think you should get since the unit is quoted as offering it. Maybe you won't notice the delay but if the VP30 is three frames behind, your audio will be ahead of the picture.

I definitely think I will stay away from the VP30 at least at this point in time. Thank you to forum members for saving me the agravation, as if I paid $2,000 for this thing and ended up with audio dropouts, I'd be beyond livid! Can anyone else recommend another scaler that can handle at least 3 HDMI inputs that has the same (or better) aspect ratio control? One that works properly? :rolleyes: My main concern is being able to move the black bars when watching a 2.35:1 DVD so they aren't always in the same place and/or eliminate them completely on some movies as my primary display is a plasma and I'm concerned about long term burn-in.

My .02

Mike

"... but then again I was once spoiled by Tag Mclaren support so have an idea of what true customer support can feel like."

How's that working out for Tag then? Good? ;)

DVDO is trying very hard to address the issues - which seem to be isolated (like Eric above, I have no audio isues). They've made post periodically about the status. One of the founders even post things up here daily. They certainly have earned the benefit of the doubt while they try and track things down.

There are numerous problems with this approach. First, I use HDMI for all my video and I believe it is the best hookup, so I don't want to lose that. Second, I use HDMI for the audio as well. HDMI has higher specs than Toslink and with the current HD DVD players, it is important to pass the audio via HDMI to get the best sound. When you pass both the audio and video via HDMI, it is very difficult to just separate the sound and send that straight through: they are both going to go through the VP30. Lastly, if you send the sound direct and bypass the VP30, you don't get the lipsync technology which for $2,000 I think you should get since the unit is quoted as offering it. Maybe you won't notice the delay but if the VP30 is three frames behind, your audio will be ahead of the picture.

I definitely think I will stay away from the VP30 at least at this point in time. Thank you to forum members for saving me the agravation, as if I paid $2,000 for this thing and ended up with audio dropouts, I'd be beyond livid! Can anyone else recommend another scaler that can handle at least 3 HDMI inputs that has the same (or better) aspect ratio control? One that works properly? :rolleyes: My main concern is being able to move the black bars when watching a 2.35:1 DVD so they aren't always in the same place and/or eliminate them completely on some movies as my primary display is a plasma and I'm concerned about long term burn-in.

My .02

Mike

Well on my VP30, trying to store a profile with a 2:35 movie shifted down, is buggy as heck. I played around with it quite awhile the other night and a few times I got it to hold by going to a default profile, then back to the stored one.

For some odd reason it work about 3 or 4 times doing that, then it stopped and now it always goes back to shift of zero, no matter what I do. So, I guess they are working on that part also, even though I'm pretty sure its been that way since the first upgrade. Nobody answered a email when I asked what might be causing it besides just a software bug.

"... but then again I was once spoiled by Tag Mclaren support so have an idea of what true customer support can feel like."

How's that working out for Tag then? Good? ;)

DVDO is trying very hard to address the issues - which seem to be isolated (like Eric above, I have no audio isues). They've made post periodically about the status. One of the founders even post things up here daily. They certainly have earned the benefit of the doubt while they try and track things down.
As far as I can tell just from searching this thread, it's been about a month since the last update on the audio bugs. I understand that most people might not be experiencing any problems, but where does that leave me as a potential customer? Do I risk $2,000 on a unit that might work, might not? I'm almost tempted to because at this point in time there seems to be nothing else available. If I order it though, you can be sure it'll be from a place that has a decent return policy because if I have audio glitches, it's going back faster than it was delivered and that's bad on both DVDO and the customer!

Mike

Naturally on a Friday my VP30 died.
I've tried a power off reset and also tried holding the menu and exit buttons while plugging in the power cord. Nada !!
The red LED is ON but the units buttons and the remote do not function at all.

Now my "no" DVD signal over HDMI problems look very small indeed :).

Any Idea's for a VP30 resurrection would be appreciated as I won't be able to swap or whatever until next week.

"... but then again I was once spoiled by Tag Mclaren support so have an idea of what true customer support can feel like."

How's that working out for Tag then? Good? ;)

DVDO is trying very hard to address the issues - which seem to be isolated (like Eric above, I have no audio isues). They've made post periodically about the status. One of the founders even post things up here daily. They certainly have earned the benefit of the doubt while they try and track things down.

I did say "once" as they are unfortunately no longer with us. Its a great pity as their customer support was second to none and I believe their approach to their clients was the way to go. As for how hard DVDO are working on the problem I would say that is hard to know based on the feedback in this and other forums. If a recall correctly there has been maybe one (or two) posts acknowledging the problem but absolutely no update to where they are with it and when, if ever, we can expect this to be resolved. I, like most people, can accept that these things things take time. I just think its fair that as a person who has shelled out $2k I can be sure that bugs in my existing product are getting priority over new products and "features". Currently I dont feel that is the case.

Please don't put words in my mouth. As I said, I am passing audio through the VP30 and in my setup it is working fine. I have no outstanding problems with the unit right now. I have no way of knowing if "most" people who own the product are having problems.

My apologies. The point I was trying to make is that I think there are problems here and definitely with the VP30. In my system the audio works 100% when its bypassed but does not work correctly when passed through the VP30. I understand that some users are happy and things are working but for many of us this is not the case and I think we would all like some assurance from DVDO that this really is top priority.

If I order it though, you can be sure it'll be from a place that has a decent return policy because if I have audio glitches, it's going back faster than it was delivered and that's bad on both DVDO and the customer!

Mike

If you order online direct from DVDO they advertise a 30 day no questions asked return policy. You do pay shipping back. I haven't had to use it, but all my other dealings with DVDO people have been top notch.

Eric

My apologies. The point I was trying to make is that I think there are problems here and definitely with the VP30. In my system the audio works 100% when its bypassed but does not work correctly when passed through the VP30. I understand that some users are happy and things are working but for many of us this is not the case and I think we would all like some assurance from DVDO that this really is top priority.

I understand, and I wasn't trying to down play that there are some issues out there. But also didn't want to leave the impression for those reading the thread that everyone is having problems and to avoid the product like the plague.

At least from my readings, I'm not sure any clear pattern has emerged to predict who will or won't have which problems. A good return policy is the new customer's friend...

Naturally on a Friday my VP30 died.
I've tried a power off reset and also tried holding the menu and exit buttons while plugging in the power cord. Nada !!
The red LED is ON but the units buttons and the remote do not function at all.



My suggestion would be to unplug the VP30, let it clear its registers, and likewise unplug all input devices - or at a bare minimum, disconnect all devices connected to HDMI. That has worked for me - all I can do is wish you luck. My only lockups have been related to the HDMI inputs - if you have no HDMI, then I have nothing to offer. :(

Yes do a hard reset with no devices connected, HDMI especially.

As far as I can tell just from searching this thread, it's been about a month since the last update on the audio bugs. I understand that most people might not be experiencing any problems, but where does that leave me as a potential customer? Do I risk $2,000 on a unit that might work, might not? I'm almost tempted to because at this point in time there seems to be nothing else available. If I order it though, you can be sure it'll be from a place that has a decent return policy because if I have audio glitches, it's going back faster than it was delivered and that's bad on both DVDO and the customer!

Mike

Mike,

Its unfortunate that this is the state of most leading edge Consumer technology these days - DVDO provides one of the best support systems out there, hence they are actively participating in this forum.

However, with your level of expectation, you really need a tried, mature and proven product..... DVDO HD+ or Lumagen DVI ..... however none of them will address all your needs .... trade off of product maturity (reliability) vs Latest features .......

If you are not comfortable on the 'bleeding edge' is best to go for 'mature' products only, where all the bugs have been ironed out.....

I would definitely not recommend a VP30 to someone expecting a perfect product right now.... will be perfect eventually ...

As far as I can tell just from searching this thread, it's been about a month since the last update on the audio bugs. I understand that most people might not be experiencing any problems, but where does that leave me as a potential customer? Do I risk $2,000 on a unit that might work, might not? I'm almost tempted to because at this point in time there seems to be nothing else available. If I order it though, you can be sure it'll be from a place that has a decent return policy because if I have audio glitches, it's going back faster than it was delivered and that's bad on both DVDO and the customer!

Mike
Don’t lock yourself into HDMI. I did for awhile and paid the price (problems with audio and HDCP). The problems ceased when I routed the audio via Toslink from the DVD player and STB and analog from the VCR to the VP30 thence coax to the AV receiver. For video, I run component from the DVD player, HDMI from the STB and composite from the VCR to the VP30 thence HDMI to the display. I now think I made a good investment in the VP30, and DVDO added icing to the cake when they introduced their Precision Deinterlacing™ Card ABT102D.

Give yourself a little time to see it you can make the VP30 work in your setup. If you can’t get the unit to produce the results you expect, return it (provided you picked a company that allows you to return the VP30).

I just ordered the VP30 direct from DVDO and took advantage of their "B-Stock" price of $1799. I noticed that their 30 day return policy only applies if you buy directly from their DVDO online store, or so it says on their web site, so I think I'll be safe. I'll give it a try and will report my findings here.

Also, the reason I want to stay HDMI is because HDMI is the only way to get the best sound out of my new HD DVD player given the inputs I have on my receiver. I also don't want to bypass the VP30 for sound because I do want to take advantage of the fact that the VP30 will sync the sound based on the processing delay. That's important for me because I find that I'm more "sensitive" than some to lip sync problems.

Mike

...

Also, the reason I want to stay HDMI is because HDMI is the only way to get the best sound out of my new HD DVD player given the inputs I have on my receiver. ...



Do you have an HDMI input (for sound) on your receiver? If not, the VP30 doesn't exactly work right with the HDA1 HD DVD player right now. HDMI sound from the HDA1 is output from the VP30's digital out as left-right only.

Do you have an HDMI input (for sound) on your receiver? If not, the VP30 doesn't exactly work right with the HDA1 HD DVD player right now. HDMI sound from the HDA1 is output from the VP30's digital out as left-right only.
Yes. I'm using the HDMI input for sound on my receiver. Is the VP30 working OK in that regard, as long as I'm not using the Toslink?

Mike

I just got back from a week away and found that the ABT card was awaiting my return.

I installed it as well as the 1.07 s/w update.

I have the new "Deinterlacing" choice under the "Input adjust" menu, but when I select that there are none of the choices that I would expect.

Is this indicative of a bad ABT card or am I missing something in the setup?

Yes. I'm using the HDMI input for sound on my receiver. Is the VP30 working OK in that regard, as long as I'm not using the Toslink?

Mike
I run the HD-A1 HDMI output to a Denon 3806, strip the audio, and then to the VP30 for video and it works fine. The VP30 does not get involved with the audio with that scenario.

Mark Stega: Feed it a non HD signal. I had forgotten and had my HDTivo sending out 1080i.

DVDO: Perhaps instead of making the selection unvailable having it display info on why would be appropriate.

Feed it a non HD signal.
Nice thought, but I started with 720p & dropped back to 480p (wish I could do 480i over HDMI, but the Denon doesn't support that) when I ran into the issue. It doesn't matter if am at 720p or 480p, I get a brief flash of a different colored pattern every 2 seconds. I am back to component in for now.

Mark,

You have to send the ABT102 480i in some manner in order for it to de-interlace.

I installed my Precision Deinterlacer Card, and updated the software to 1.07 -- using a MacMini, running Windows XP via Bootcamp, and a USB to Serial cable. It worked just fine.

I am very pleased with the results. SD picture quality has improved considerably!

Now, for when the 1080p passthrough? 1080i motion adaptive deinterlacing? Then, i'll be set.

My suggestion would be to unplug the VP30, let it clear its registers, and likewise unplug all input devices - or at a bare minimum, disconnect all devices connected to HDMI. That has worked for me - all I can do is wish you luck. My only lockups have been related to the HDMI inputs - if you have no HDMI, then I have nothing to offer. :(

The reason I purchased the VP30 was I needed an 4x HDMI/DVI switcher. Plus I could use it to scale constant height with my scope screen. So yes, I have all HDMI sources and WANT TO USE THEM. Unfortunately things are not working out, even when the VP30 was "working".

I've done all you recommended above Flyingvee. This morning the VP30 is "sorta" working :).... again. Now no matter which HDMI source I plug in the video "flashes" about every half second.

Maybe I ought to start thinking how I can have my 4 HDMI (cake) so I can scale constant height 2.35:1 using another more stable and dependable path.

As I said before, all 4 of my HDMI source's work just fine using the Gefen HDMI 4 X 1 video/audio switch. No HDCP or handshake problems what so ever.
If only I could make the VP30 duplicate what Gefen does for HDMI faultless connections and switching.........

As I said before, all 4 of my HDMI source's work just fine using the Gefen HDMI 4 X 1 video/audio switch. No HDCP or handshake problems what so ever.
If only I could make the VP30 duplicate what Gefen does for HDMI faultless connections and switching.........

fair enough - no arguments from anyone here....I just suggested removing HDMI inputs, cuz that should bring it back to life. Which it sorta has. I have to assume you have tried with hdcp both on and off in the vp30 menu. past that, sorry - you're making me glad I'm only using one hdmi input right now. and if I turn off hdcp, it works. if I turn hdcp on, I get a seconds worth of picture, then nothing.

Which I think is correct - not sure, but as long as it runs with hdcp off, I'm ok.

ou have to send the ABT102 480i in some manner in order for it to de-interlace
I realize that -- I have two independent problems:

1) When I send 480i via component, I have no menu in the "deinterlacing" sub menu

2) When I send 480p or 720p via HDMI,I get the picture disruption every 2 seconds

I realize that -- I have two independent problems:

1) When I send 480i via component, I have no menu in the "deinterlacing" sub menu

2) When I send 480p or 720p via HDMI,I get the picture disruption every 2 seconds
Regarding your first issue, press the info button on your VP30 remote to see if the signal type you are sending from your source to the VP30 is 480i or something else. Suspect the reason you are not getting a deinterlacing submenu is you are inputting something other than 480i. While I don’t have a Denon 3910, wonder if in the Denon’s video options menu there is a way to select sending an interlaced signal via component.

I realize that -- I have two independent problems:

1) When I send 480i via component, I have no menu in the "deinterlacing" sub menu



ok - then to the obvious, and what you asked in the first place - is the card indeed installed and found by the VP30? i.e., when you turn the VP on, does the display say "VP30 with ABT102?" - when I first installed mine, the VP did NOT find the card initially, but in that case, I could not even view 480i material - only HD and 480p. I had to do a hard reset with unplug to get the Vp to find the card. If your vp "sees" the card, but you don't have the menu options, I too would suspect the input. Do you have a simple, old school vcr you can input via composite? Obviously that would give you 480i, and you could see if the menu options are then available.

A few questions:

Are there any recomendations for adjusting the Y/C in the picture control?

What is the recommendation for the sync setting for a Samsung DLP?

I noticed that the size of the VP30 menu changes with the output resolution. For example, if I am set to 1080i, the menu is large. When I set it to 1080P, the menu is very small. Any significance to this?

Thanks

"VP30 with ABT102?"
flyingvee,

Thanks, there was no "with ABT102" on the splash. I did the hard reset (should have done one earlier) and now the menu has all of the options on a 480i source.

Now, if only the HDMI issue was as solvable!

Just curious - where do you see this "with 102" splash? Mine's working fine, but I'm just curious. I see the "VP30/ABT102" on the Info screen - is that what you mean?

BTW, Samsung just announced that their upcomming BD player will put out 480i over HDMI. :cool:

BTW, Samsung just announced that their upcomming BD player will put out 480i over HDMI. :cool:

well I just scan through the manual. It said:

480i resolution is not available for HDMI output.

next line:

In HDMI mode
BD playback : 1080p, 1080i, 720p are available.
DVD playback : 1080p, 1080i, 720p and 480p are all available

:cool:

Ahh...try here:

www.samsung.com/products/dvdplayer/blu_ray/files/bdp1000.pdf

I still plan to wait for the Sony model. But good info Oink! :)

Ahh...try here:

www.samsung.com/products/dvdplayer/blu_ray/files/bdp1000.pdf

yea I saw that one. But from the same samsung site, u can also find the complete manual,

http://org.downloadcenter.samsung.com/downloadfile/ContentsFile.aspx?CDSite=SS&CttFileID=1033309&CDCttType=UM&ModelType=N&ModelName=BD-P1000&VPath=UM/200606/20060605081322171_P1000_XAA_BK_0602.pdf

from the manual pg 43 it clearly said no 480i for HDMI output.


• The number in 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080p and 1080i
indicates the number of lines of video. The i and p
indicate interlace and progressive scan, respectively.
- 1080p : Outputs 1080 lines of progressive video.
- 1080i : Outputs 1080 lines of interlaced video.
- 720p : Outputs 720 lines of progressive video.
- 480p : Outputs 480 lines progressive video.
- 480i : Outputs 480 lines of interlaced video. 480i
resolution is not available for HDMI output.


Honestly I really hope the manual is wrong.

Sorry for the OT...

Honestly I really hope the manual is wrong.



Me too...this machine could be a great solution for those of us with a VP30 that don't want 2 boxes. ;)

Me too...this machine could be a great solution for those of us with a VP30 that don't want 2 boxes. ;)
I am waiting for 1 box that will do HD-DVD+Bluray+480i over HDMI to my VP-30. Truley a 1 box system but I have always been a dreamer ;)

I realize that -- I have two independent problems:

1) When I send 480i via component, I have no menu in the "deinterlacing" sub menu

2) When I send 480p or 720p via HDMI,I get the picture disruption every 2 seconds
For #2, I think you are connecting yr VP30 to yr display using components or a non-HDMI compliant display. That's why u got disruption every 2 sec.

For #2, I think you are connecting yr VP30 to yr display using components or a non-HDMI compliant display. That's why u got disruption every 2 sec.
No -- The display device is a Marantz vp12s2 fed by hdmi/dvi. That cable straight to the 3910 works. It is when the vp30 gets added to the chain that issues occur.

Mark - It sounds like the Denon has problems operating correctly with an HDMI repeater (VP30). I will try to recreate this problem tomorrow with a couple other HDMI repeaters to verify where the problem is.

480i resolution is not available for HDMI output.
It's extremely annoying that HDTV and HD DVD and BluRay implementations are not allowing 480i/576i over HDMI.

If only some clever company could solve this problem!

StooMonster

It's extremely annoying that HDTV and HD DVD and BluRay implementations are not allowing 480i/576i over HDMI.

If only some clever company could solve this problem!

StooMonster
The flagship Pioneer DVD players allow 480i/576i out over HDMI, so I hope that the Pioneer BluRay player will also do that. However, it's going to be very expensive and the first generation seems to have some limitations. So for me I'm probably going to wait for 2nd generation.

The flagship Pioneer DVD players allow 480i/576i out over HDMI, so I hope that the Pioneer BluRay player will also do that. However, it's going to be very expensive and the first generation seems to have some limitations. So for me I'm probably going to wait for 2nd generation.
I'll just use a PS3 initially and keep using my current DVD player for DVDs. I think it'll be a while before a univeral BD/DVD or HD-DVD/DVD player will outperform indivdual players for each format. That certainly was the case with laserdisc and DVD.

I'll just use a PS3 initially and keep using my current DVD player for DVDs. I think it'll be a while before a univeral BD/DVD or HD-DVD/DVD player will outperform indivdual players for each format. That certainly was the case with laserdisc and DVD.
True. But my rack is not big enough for 2 players... :(

That's the exception rather than the rule though, Pioneer and Arcam for example.

Doesn't solve the set-tob-box for HDTV issue though. Why can't they all simply have 480i/576i as an output option?

StooMonster

I would never want to use the HD-A1 as an SD DVD player. It's just too slow. I'll put up with it for HD but it's not worth it for upconverted SD. That's what my Sony 975 DVD player is for, 480i over HDMI. With Oppo releasing their new player with HDMI for only $150 and it has the ability to pass 480i over HDMI that should be a viable option. Especially if it is as thin as the previous player since it can easily fit into a tight space.

True. But my rack is not big enough for 2 players... :(
My rack is overflowing skyward too, but I've never taken that as a sign I should stop buying stuff. :D


Doesn't solve the set-tob-box for HDTV issue though. Why can't they all simply have 480i/576i as an output option?
They think we don't need it. Most of their customer base cares more about pointlessly adding an extra scaling process to their image than they do about getting the best picture quality.

My rack is overflowing skyward too, but I've never taken that as a sign I should stop buying stuff. :D



Heck no - just buy another rack (or two) to go alonside the first :D

I would appreciate if somebody could make a list of usb to serial adapters which are known to work with VP30 and are available in Europe.

Hi All,

Had my SKY HD PVR installed today via HDMI and Im having a strange problem. If I go into the VP30 and setup the HDMI input to accept HDMI aspect ratio information from the device then it does the following.

For a 16x9 channels (HD and SD) the VP30 info display for the input aspect ratio shows "16x9 - 1.78:1" and displays correctly. If I change the channel to an SD channel in 4x3 then the info displays "4x3 - 1.78:1". My display then changes to a letterbox display and zooms into the 4x3 image instead of showing the whole 4x3 image with black bars left and right. If I select the 4x3 aspect ratio on the DVDO remote then it shows the boxes but still leaves the image zoomed out like with letterbox and 16x9 channels are now shown with black bars left and right chopping off the relevant info.

Im not sure whats going wrong here but I cant seem to find any combination of settings on the Sky HD box or the VP30 that will give me auto 16x9 and 4x3 in a full 16x9 frame with only black bars added left and right for 4x3 sources.

Hopefully this makes sense but can anyone help? Does this auto AR function work on HDMI DVD players correctly or does 4x3 flagged video also enable letterbox ?????

Hans

The reason that the User can turn off Auto Frame AR (and that the default is off) is that this information is not perfectly reliable. The Frame AR is being set by the SKY HD PVR, but the active area is defined by the User. In the case of 4:3 content, where you would like all of the content preserved and not distorted the correct option would be '1.33:1' on the active area (with a 4:3 frame).

Hi Josh,

Is there anyway to tell the VP30 to automatically use an active area of 1.33:1 for 4x3 frame AR and a 1.78:1 for 16x9 frame AR?. Having a fixed active AR for various frame areas seems to counter the idea of having HDMI automate the selection or am I missing something?

Regards
Hans

Hans - At this point there is not a way to do this automatically. It is certainly something we can consider.

Is a gamma adjustment coming out in the near future?

Is there any difference between using a SDI connection to the VP30 versus a HDMI to VP30 with 480i output like Pioneer DV989 (I think is theas Elite DV79). Will I get a less superior picture if I used HDMI with 480i output to VP30?

I am interested in getting the DV989 or the much lower end DV490 which have 480i out from their HDMI. Or should I get a modded DVD with SDI output?

Thanks

Hans - At this point there is not a way to do this automatically. It is certainly something we can consider.

OK please can you add that to the list but for now can audio dropouts, HDMI and remote problems please get priority. Any news on a possible release date for firmware fixing these bugs?

Regards
Hans

Hans - The issues that you point out are our current priorities. We expect to have something very soon to correct more of the audio issues. I would rather not say it will be out this day and then have to deal with backlash because that day slipped. I will post here the moment it is available on our site.

Re USB to RS232 converters.

The best I know of are the ones made by IOnetworks and are called Edgeports. They come in 1,2,4,8 port varieties (edgeport/1, edgeport/2, edgeport/4, edgeport/8) and were orginally designed for corporations. You can often get very good buys on used units on eBay. I have 4 of them (8 port units) installed, the VP 30 being on one of them, and have never had any problem with any piece of gear not working properly. They have good support software that allows you to map the ports to any unused com numbers. I have run several through a USB hub also made by Ionetworks and have had no problems.

Josh, I strongly second the comments of Hmuller, and do appreciate your not discussing future release dates as they are generally nebulous. HOWEVER, you know I am available for testing!

Hans - your aspect ratio problems may well be tied to your skybox, or how the skybox communicates thru hdmi. I am currently using an LG4200 to view SD NSTC cable and HD QAM cable at the same time; when I switch between HD and SD programming, thru component, the VP30 switches the AR automatically, between 4x3 and 16x9. My only problem is with one local HD broadcaster, that broadcasts ALL of its shows in 16x9, even if they are only 4x3. With that station, I have to manually squish it; but when the broadcasters have it right, the LG and VP display it correctly.

Yep, I have this problem with Sky HD too -- the HDMI flags are setting 16:9 and 4:3 'letterbox', not 16:9 and pure 4:3. It's really annoying and makes one turn off automatic aspect ratio switching.

Would it be possible to create User overrides? i.e. if VP30 gets HDMI flag to change to 4:3 'letterbox' the VP30 knows the use preference is to interpret that as pure '4:3'?

StooMonster

.... is to interpret that as pure '4:3'?

StooMonster

I think the term is "pillarbox 4x3" which leaves the black bars either side of the full 16x9 frame. As it stands the VP30 is doing was it should by displaying an active 4x3 AR in a 16x9 frame AR which results in the letterbox zooming.

With most 4x3 material these days being video footage shot in full frame 4x3 and less and less material being shot in non-anamorphic letterbox 4x3 I think there should probably be a preference for pillarbox 4x3 as apposed to letterbox 4x3 on the VP30. User selectable would be preferred though :) Just my 2c/2p...

Regards
Hans

Hans - your aspect ratio problems may well be tied to your skybox, or how the skybox communicates thru hdmi. I am currently using an LG4200 to view SD NSTC cable and HD QAM cable at the same time; when I switch between HD and SD programming, thru component, the VP30 switches the AR automatically, between 4x3 and 16x9. My only problem is with one local HD broadcaster, that broadcasts ALL of its shows in 16x9, even if they are only 4x3. With that station, I have to manually squish it; but when the broadcasters have it right, the LG and VP display it correctly.

I think its working in your case because the VP30 stores individual AR settings for each resolution so as long as your SD is 4x3 and your HD is 16x9 material you are ok. With Sky there is a strong mix of 16x9 SD and 4x3 SD material and since they are the same resolution the VP30 wont change frame and active AR unless the HDMI device tells it too. In the Sky HD case the active AR is changing as expected. Its the fixed frame AR on the VP30 thats messing things up. If all our 4x3 material were letterboxed non-anamorphic movies we would be in business :)

Just got the VP30 this evening and it has been a long night! :rolleyes:

Took it out of the box, hooked up the HDMI inputs from my HR10-250 and my RCA HDV5000 HD DVD player. The first thing that happened within 10 minutes is that I get an error on the VP30 display panel "Serious Error 10, Call Dealer" when switching from HDMI input 1 to HDMI input 2. Well that's not a good start! At that point, it was locked up until I disconnected power for a few minutes. Then I notice that the firmware is 1.05 so I download the latest firmware from the DVDO site and the Tera Term Pro software. Got Tera Term installed on my laptop and proceeded to try to send the 1.07 abt file after setting the parameters of Tera Term Pro per the 9 page printed instructions from DVDO. It got an error at about 1325 bytes and at that point would no longer boot other than to say "Load abt file now" on the display. The firmware was now corrupted and it wouldn't boot other than to accept another firmware try. After trying several more times, I finally got a blue screen of death on XP, something I've never seen before in XP.

I figured maybe it was the computer so I tried the same procedure from my main desktop computer using the same USB --> serial connection. Same problem: loading ERR appeared on the VP30 display and it conked out at about 1300 bytes. This time, the computer cold booted on its own! Figuring maybe there was some incompatibility between Tera Term Pro and my USB-->serial adapter, I dug out an old Windows 95 laptop that had a serial connection. I then tried the process going serial-->serial with no USB in the way. NOW it finally worked and I got 1.07 loaded after about 25-30 minutes of load time. This convoluted firmware download method really could use some improvement! I'd really hate to see the trouble a non computer-savvy person could get themselves into by trying this process!

After an hour or so of work trying to load 1.07 via different computers, it was finally up and running. I got everything hooked back up and didn't see the "serious error 10" message any more. I now noticed, however, that while the HR10-250 passed DD 5.1 sound just fine through the VP30, the VP30 "downgraded" all sound from my HD DVD player to 2 channel. What started out as DD 5.1 was now DD 2.1. I solved that by running the optical audio feed from the HD DVD player into the VP30 and it seemed happier with that. While it screwed up the HD DVD's audio on the HDMI input, it passed 5.1 via the optical audio without bastardizing it down to 2 channels.

Anyway, after all evening fooling with it, it now seems to work OK. I now have the aspect ratio controls I wanted and so far (knock on wood) I haven't noticed any audio or HDMI video dropouts. For the next firmware, I put in my vote to make the VP30 understand HDMI audio from HD DVD players and not "downgrade" the audio to 2 channel. PQ is excellent, so no complaints there. For any definitive review, I'll need more time with the unit. Right now, I'm still trying to program my universal remote to make things easy for me. This thing really needs one button access to the user profiles. Also, the display profiles to not restore the input aspect ratio setting so I find myself having to press the button on the remote for IAR and then scrolling to the aspect ratio I want. I suspect there is a way to simplify this but I haven't found it in my short term fiddling.

Mike

Mike - Do you know what FTDI driver version you have installed on your PCs?

SInce we are on this topic, I could not get my FTDI RS232 to USB converter working.... had to borrow a friends' laptop and use RS232 ....

is there a foolproof tool to use that works?

Mike - Do you know what FTDI driver version you have installed on your PCs?
I have a Radio Shack USB-->Serial adapter with driver version 2.0.0.26. I tried installing the FTDI driver on the DVDO website but it wouldn't install. It works for everything else I've tried it on except the VP30. The Tera Term software seems to be doing some awful things because it is the only software I've ever run that could crash XP.

Mike

I had a similar experience when I updated my VP30 with a USB to serial converter cable. But since I was using a MacMini running bootcampl, I blamed it on the set-up. I had the same errors messages, and a couple of reboots. However, I was surpised to find that even though I had an error message while trying to install the recommended driver, it was installed. I had to selected it AND -- that was not in the manual --- make sure that the speed of the port was properly selected from the Device Manager itself as well as the TeraTerm application. THEN it worked just fine.

For the record, in my case I had all three (the VP30, COM1 in device manager, and the terminal speed in Tera Term) set to 57600. CR+LF was selected in Tera Term as well as hardware flow control per the DVDO instructions. Still no go with my USB-->serial connection. The message I kept getting via the VP30 response to Tera Term was "Data Overflow, check flow control".

Mike

For the record, in my case I had all three (the VP30, COM1 in device manager, and the terminal speed in Tera Term) set to 57600. CR+LF was selected in Tera Term as well as hardware flow control per the DVDO instructions. Still no go with my USB-->serial connection. The message I kept getting via the VP30 response to Tera Term was "Data Overflow, check flow control".

Mike
Did you set the VP-30 to 57600--It defaults to 19200

Did you set the VP-30 to 57600--It defaults to 19200
Yes, as I said in the part you quoted, the VP30, the device manager on the computer, and the terminal properties in Tera Term were all set to 57600. Besides, if there was a mismatch, Tera Term would have displayed garbage instead of the messages from the VP30 like "Restarting...ok" and "Load ABT file now...". The text coming from the VP30 looked fine so the baud rates matched up OK. The problem was just in the file transfer process and I believe it has something to do with the hardware flow control not working properly on Tera Term when using a USB-->serial adapter.

Mike

I had problems with a Keyspan USB-serial device, too, and I think it had to do with flow control as well. An actual serial port rather than a USB one usually works well.

The FTDI driver is only for USB-serial devices using the FTDI chipset. For example, my Keyspan isn't one of them.

--Andre

I believe it has something to do with the hardware flow control not working properly on Tera Term when using a USB-->serial adapter.

I think this is most likely your problem. I have never had an issue with any of the upgrades via serial-serial connection. The combo of terra term and usb-serial connection seems to have issues. Possibly it may work on a lower baud setting (default?) but not the higher 57600 setting. Terra term is an old (1999) program and may exhibit issues with higher baud rates and usb combination adapters.

BTW, thanks for Qimage - been using it for years. (if that's you).

Perhaps a stupid question:

-Should I 'always' assume that my VP30 has better scaling capabilities than any plasma I can buy? Let's say I buy a rather expensive 50" plasma, as I'm planning to. The reason I ask is that I have read until my eyes bleed, and it seems almost impossible to get hold of a (new) plasma that will allow 1:1 pixel mapping @ both 50Hz and 60Hz over a digital connection, which I want to do when I after all do have a VP30.

So - if I instead just 'relax' and forget about 1:1 pixel mapping, and feed the panel 720P instead - will it be a big loss compared to being able to send say 1366x768P to the panel? Should I just forget about 1:1 and be happy with a "vanilla" plasma being fed 720P from my VP30?

I think this is most likely your problem. I have never had an issue with any of the upgrades via serial-serial connection. The combo of terra term and usb-serial connection seems to have issues. Possibly it may work on a lower baud setting (default?) but not the higher 57600 setting. Terra term is an old (1999) program and may exhibit issues with higher baud rates and usb combination adapters.

BTW, thanks for Qimage - been using it for years. (if that's you).

OK. Thanks. I'll just stick with my older laptop that has a real serial port for any future updates. That seemed to work fine.

And yes, that's me. ;)

P.S. Still kinda curious as to what that "Serious Error 10" was.

Mike

Perhaps a stupid question:

-Should I 'always' assume that my VP30 has better scaling capabilities than any plasma I can buy? Let's say I buy a rather expensive 50" plasma, as I'm planning to. The reason I ask is that I have read until my eyes bleed, and it seems almost impossible to get hold of a (new) plasma that will allow 1:1 pixel mapping @ both 50Hz and 60Hz over a digital connection, which I want to do when I after all do have a VP30.

So - if I instead just 'relax' and forget about 1:1 pixel mapping, and feed the panel 720P instead - will it be a big loss compared to being able to send say 1366x768P to the panel? Should I just forget about 1:1 and be happy with a "vanilla" plasma being fed 720P from my VP30?

I'm a realtive newbie here but I'll let you know my thought son my setup.

I bought a Fuji 50" and a VP30. I then found out, after getting a rather decent chap called Gordon to do my calibration, that the plasma will not 1:1 map on a 50hz input. Basically all of my DVDs and my SD stuff (through sky) are having to be sent to the plasma at 720p50.

My Region 1 DVDs are able to be sent to the display in NR (1:1) . They do slook slightly better but not as different as you'd imagine.

I have tried running my DVDs / Sky box directly to the display and although the Fujis AVM-II processing is extremely good, the picture just isn't as crisp and some sports motion still seems to display artefacts.

Basically you're not going to get £1800/$2500 scaling from a screen which only costs £3000/$5000...

< flame proof suit donned > ;)

OK, thanks for replying. It's just that I'm so tired of looking around for a panel that will do what I want. So frustrated that I really just wanna buy a 'normal' plasma and hook it up via HDMI @ 720P from the VP30 and "be done with it".

Only a couple of weeks ago, I was under the impression that most people with scalers such as the VP30 was running at native rate, since I had been so lucky to actually achieve NR with my old Samsung SD consumer plasma at both 50 and 60 Hz(!). Yes, it's true. Now that I've sold that set - not only do I find out that that is in fact very very hard to do on most/all plasmas (@ 50Hz anyway), but I also find out that neither black level nor false contouring or banding are solved to such an extent that I had come to believe and hope after these three or so years...

So I'm quite bummed out at the moment. Am waiting for the new TH-50PH9 Panasonics, but even they seem not to be able to do NR at 50Hz digital.

So I pretty much wanna scream, and throw stuff. Then buy a 'normal' plasma and feed it 720p. On the other hand, I would of course also like to get what I paid for from the VP30. But the perfect panel doesn't exist.

Hence my signature...

I'm hoping the new Pioneer panels will fill the need by accepting 1080p/24. Use your scalar to output that over HDMI. It's not pixel-mapping, but at least it stays in the digital domain.

I really hope DVDO will fix the audio issues in the next firmware as they seem to have some real issues with audio over HDMI. I eventually had to give up on HDMI audio and switch to optical. When using HDMI audio, the VP30 downconverts audio from my HD DVD player to two channel and you lose the center/dialog channel completely! I presume that might be because the HD DVD player passes some new (True HD maybe) audio signal that the VP30 can't understand. In addition, I noticed that when you switch back and forth between input sources (HDMI 1, HDMI 2 for example) the audio often goes "dead" even though the proper source/output is selected. My receiver still shows that audio is being delivered to the HDMI input on the receiver as it shows the audio active, but there is no sound. After fiddling with it for a while, I finally gave up on trying to pass audio via HDMI on the VP30. It is simply not stable. So far I'm doing OK with going the audio all-optical route.

Just thought I'd report as maybe it'll help DVDO...

Mike

....When using HDMI audio, the VP30 downconverts audio from my HD DVD player to two channel and you lose the center/dialog channel completely! I presume that might be because the HD DVD player passes some new (True HD maybe) audio signal that the VP30 can't understand. ...

Version 1.0 of the VP30's firmware passed 5.1 from the HDMI audio of the Toshiba HD A1 HD DVD player. There were a ton of dropouts and other audio problems with 1.0 though. Later firmware versions only pass the L-R channels. I don't think it is downconverting. I think it is stripping all the channels except L-R.

I don't think it is downconverting. I think it is stripping all the channels except L-R.
Yes, that is more accurate and is what I have found. I shouldn't have said "downconverted".

Mike

yep same with me, setting on the Toshiba gonig to the VP30 via HDMI only

auto = LR only nothing else
Bitstream = LR only nothing else
PCM= 2 channel PCM downmix
Downconverted PCM = 2 channel PCM downmix

setting the Toshiba to PCM should give us the decoded 5 channel PCM from the Toshiba and out the VP30, same as what is outputted from the Analog jacks(before D/A of course)

but as others have found we only wind up with the 2 LR channels and nothing else

BTW my Sherwood P-965 reports this as 96hz stereo PCM when this "LR only" error occurs

-Gary

yep same with me, setting on the Toshiba gonig to the VP30 via HDMI only

auto = LR only nothing else
Bitstream = LR only nothing else
PCM= 2 channel PCM downmix
Downconverted PCM = 2 channel PCM downmix

That's odd. After firmware 1.0 I get 5.1 channels of PCM through the VP30 to my Yamaha HTR-5990 receiver, but I get a continuous high pitched tone overlayed on the audio. Still unusable, but it is definitely 5.1 channels. It works fine if I connect the A1 directly to the Yamaha. What the Toshiba players ouput over HDMI seems to be affected by what information it receives from the down stream components, so it may depend on which receiver you have, whether or not it is set to pass the audio to it's HDMI output and if so what the display downstream of that supports.

That's odd. After firmware 1.0 I get 5.1 channels of PCM through the VP30 to my Yamaha HTR-5990 receiver, but I get a continuous high pitched tone overlayed on the audio. Still unusable, but it is definitely 5.1 channels. It works fine if I connect the A1 directly to the Yamaha. What the Toshiba players ouput over HDMI seems to be affected by what information it receives from the down stream components, so it may depend on which receiver you have, whether or not it is set to pass the audio to it's HDMI output and if so what the display downstream of that supports.
Using a Yamaha RXV-2600, it definitely "eats" everything but the front L/R channels when passing HDMI from my RCA HDV5000 HD-DVD player. It has no problem with my HR10-250 DVR so I suspect the VP30 can't handle the HDMI audio from the HD DVD player.

Mike

guys I think DVDO is working on the HD-DVD problem, they are the best in getting issues corrected, just give them some time

kinda neat if you ask me, a company corrected their product to work with many different single items

Call up a major electronics company and say X doesn't work with X, you are SOL

-Gary

I use my XA1 with the VP30 without issues. Of course I am not sending audio in...

Right Joe, the Toshiba already works perfect with video and doing my 2.35:1 output looks superb thru the VP30 I might add

getting the audio going will be perfection

-Gary

Agreed! Cool... :cool:

guys I think DVDO is working on the HD-DVD problem, they are the best in getting issues corrected, just give them some time

kinda neat if you ask me, a company corrected their product to work with many different single items

Call up a major electronics company and say X doesn't work with X, you are SOL

-Gary

Got my HD satellite installed yesterday (UK SkyHD) and it took me a while to spot it but it appears I was only getting 2 channel via HDMI from that too. Had to switch to Opti for 5.1. Not certain if it was down-mixed or just LR thou (I actually wanted to watch the film so didn't play around ;) ).

EDIT: Appears to be down-mixed to stereo or at least the dialog was clear in XxX2. ;) My display is connected via DVI so it won't be responding to audio challenges.

The A1/XA1 and SkyHD both share the same integrated decoder and possibly some of the HDMI logic so hopefully 1.08 will help with both.

I suspect some of the HD movies are in DD+, will have to wait till I can record one that I have on DVD for bitrate comparison.

So has there been any recent info on the newer VP that will do Inverse Telecine with motion adaptive deinterlacing? :)

I'm strongly considering the Oppo 970. I currently use my Zenith's DVB318 component out into the VP30 and I use the VP30 to drive my TV and my Projector. (One with HDMI, the other with Component). With copy protected DVD will I need to use the component output of the Oppo or will the 480i via HDMI work out the VP30 component?

How I wish the VP30 had an optional HDMI output module.....

Mark that is why SDI is better, no HDCP stuff which kills everything analog which kills lots of installs

no you will not be able to output component from the 480i HDMI input, because of HDCP

-Gary

Since usb to serial adapters seem to work pretty poorly, how would a serial port PCI card work?

I use this card from SIIG for PCI slots (SIIG reference)
(http://www.siig.com/product.asp?catid=6&pid=1025)
and this one for PCIe slots (SIIG reference) (http://www.siig.com/product.asp?catid=14&pid=1025)

and I have been able to upgrade and control my VP30 with each.

Got my HD satellite installed yesterday (UK SkyHD) and it took me a while to spot it but it appears I was only getting 2 channel via HDMI from that too. Had to switch to Opti for 5.1. Not certain if it was down-mixed or just LR thou (I actually wanted to watch the film so didn't play around ;) ).


Wow your doing well. I get 2 channel audio for about a second and then nothing when I use the HDMI feed from SkyHD via coax to my AV processor. Whats worse is that with HDMI to the VP30 and then HDMI to my Panny PV500 I get nothing. Tried powering off and disconnecting all the devices but nothing. If I feed the HDMI straight from Sky box to plasma then it works 100%. What I have managed to figure out is that Sky are using HDCP on the HDMI output and trying to disable it on the VP30 results in a curtain close. Guess HDCP will be 100% mandatory for all Sky broadcasts

The opening games of the world cup were pretty awesome picture wise, pity they were only pro-logic. :(

I'm using a Humax HDCI-2000 Satellite receiver for BBC HD and feeding the output from the Humax to a VP30 using HDMI. Picture quality is amazing, faultless really, but if I rely on the audio via HDMI I'm getting constant drop outs. It'll drop out for a second then I'll get 2 or 3 secs of clear audio then another 1 second dropout. I've tried all four HDMI inputs and it's the same on each.

I have no other HDMI sources to try and I have no idea if its a fault in the receiver or the VP30. Does this fault sound familiar to anyone?

For now I've taped an optical lead to the side of the HDMI and I'm running that no probs.

Allan

I'm trying to use a VP30 to drive a 7" analog Dwin HD-700 CRT PJ with a 4:3 AR. The PJ was ISF calibrated with its previous Faroudja DVP-2200 proc, which puts out 800x600 format, and the color and geometry looked great.

The analog RGBHV out from the VP30 is hooked to the PJ and the output format is set to SVGA, the AR to 4:3, the color space to RGB, and the sync to H-V-. The on-screen menu appears ok.

However, when viewing the S-video 480i output of a DirecTiVo, through the VP30 S-video 1 input, the picture width is about 70% of the screen width, and the picture is aligned with the right side of the screen. Its height is the full height, but stretched vertically, like an "enhanced for widescreen" DVD when you forget to turn on the anamorphic processing. I got the same results from the AVIA DVD through the VP30 component-1 input. (Both inputs were set for a 4:3 AR.)

When I set the PJ itself to anamorphic, the geometric distortion disappears, but the picture size is still much smaller than the screen.

Please tell me what I'm doing wrong. Thank you.

you can work your problem out adjusting the input aspect menu stuff, all the needed controls are there to work it out, just play with it for a while ;)

don't adjust anything on the PJ

also make sure under output setup that the screen and display options are both set for 4:3

-Gary

For now I've taped an optical lead to the side of the HDMI and I'm running that no probs.

Allan
HDMI sound simply does not work properly on the VP30 as of rev 1.07. I'm hoping that the next rev will fix the problems. I'm having different problems than you but in the end, it is unusable. I went to optical for the audio and it works fine. Not having any problems with the HDMI picture though, at least on my equipment.

Mike