New DVDO iScan VP30 [Text View] - Page 20

aaronwt

06-25-06, 09:50 PM

Installed 1.08 and still get the same behavior sending 5.1 channel PCM through the VP30 to a Yamaha HTR-5990 HDMI receiver. It passes 5.1 channel PCM to the receiver, but there is a loud continuous high pitched tone overlayed on the audio. Works fine if I go directly from the HD-A1 to the receiver.

Just wondering, has anyone successfully passed 5.1 channel PCM via HDMI through the VP30? I'm wondering if it related to my receiver or a general problem with the VP30.

The good news is that I can now send DD and DTS over HDMI from my Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player. This worked in version 1.0, but in every version since I could only get 2 channel PCM over HDMI and had to send the audio over SPDIF. In 1.08 it seems to be fixed.

Go from the A1 to the receiver then to the VP30. This is how I had my setup with a Denon 2807 and now with a 3806. The sound is rock solid this way. The same goes for the Samsung BD player. Although I've only watched one movie since I got it today but that sound is solid as well by going to the receiver first.
The only time I went to the VP30 first, with the A1, was before I got an HDMI capable receiver.

backdoor

06-25-06, 11:37 PM

VP30 v1.5 (without ABT102) HDMI out to DVI in of JVC DLA-HX2U projector

I set the VP30 for HX2 native rate (1400x788) and got excellent 1:1 pixel mapping (per the VP30 vertical and horizontal lines test patterns). The geometry was off, however, requiring projector keystone adjustment to widen the top of the image. After geometry was corrected by keystone adjustment, the vertical and horizontal lines test patterns showed significant moiré and blurring of lines.

Is this correctable by the VP30 and if so, what setting changes would best correct the problem?

I have tried changing VP30 Shift and H-Size instead of using the projector keystone but these seem only to adjust symmetrically... so seems I need to use the projector keystone to get the geometry correct. How now to get 1:1 back??

I'm also wondering if using the projector keystone forces the projector scalar to kick in?

Mark Hoy

06-26-06, 12:59 AM

collinp

06-26-06, 01:47 AM

I will point out that the HD Tivos do drop audio all on their own. I've my audio fed optically through to my receiver and on occasion it drops audio. Replay of the event and it's fine. You can get it to happen most often when switching to a HD feed from a normal feed. (Perhaps the audio encoding switching?)

Yes this is a known issue with the HD DirecTivo. It appears that when switching between output types the Tivo does something illegal that trips up many devices receiving the signal. The VP30 gets tripped up by this, but my receiver (a Pioneer Elite) never does. When this occurs the VP30 just seems to output silence. My HD+ had the same problem. I've turned off Dolby Digital output on the Tivo to avoid this. I'd love it if DVDO would work around Tivo's bug. Since my receiver can handle it there must be a way.

The dropout problem myself and others bring up occasionally is a quarter to half second of silence that happens at completely random intervals. The problem appears to be completely the fault of the VP30. The HD+ didn't do it nor does it occur when my devices are directly connected to the receiver.

- Collin

danielo

06-26-06, 03:28 AM

Sparky66

06-26-06, 04:49 AM

There are no enhancements in v1.08 that pertain to improving the picture quality.

You can say that again !
With the ABT102 card installed and all settings setup correctly as previous firmware 1.07, there seems to be some issues . :mad: :mad:
Watching mostly Pal sourced material, 1.08 is actually a step backwards in the picture quality department. Picture almost looks like interlaced low rez . Very pixelated and a hell of alot more jaggies. What gives ??? Yuk.........
Going back to 1.07 !!!! heaven ...

aaronwt

06-26-06, 07:54 AM

mchaney

06-26-06, 09:28 AM

the solution is to only watch HD on the HD TiVos. I only use my HDTiVos for HD and I don't have any audio dropout problems. I use my SD DirecTiVos for SD.
That's not a solution for me. The audio dropouts are not occurring when switching from HD to SD or vice versa. I can be watching an hour long HD recording and get 10 dropouts in that hour. The HR10-250 was in HD the entire time. Play it back with the VP30 bypassed and not one dropout. Play it back again with the VP30 attached again and I might get only 3 dropouts (in different places than the 10 before). As I said, it seems random as if the VP30 is affected by cosmic rays. ;)

Mike

John P.

06-26-06, 10:57 AM

Thanks really helpful stuff. I think it will only display XGA @60hz. I have my pc connected to VGA and it won't display @50hz.
I've managed to get the screen to fit now using the underscan, shift and zoom option, things are looking much better now!!
Sorry did i say 1080i? Sorry i meant 1080p. I've no idea if it will display this or not? If it does, i can't get it to work.... Any idea about that??
One other question, when i instal my ABT102 card, will i have to reinstall the firmware. im on 1.07 now, i don't want to use 1.08 until it's out of beta.
Thanks again for your help

You can also use Pan to move the picture left and right, up and down (only by the same amount that you have used Zoom though).

You don't have to reinstall the firmware after you have installed the ABT102 card. Since you have 1.07 now, you're good to go. Just open the box, pop it in there, reassemble the box, and hook it up. The Info screen should then say "iScan VP30/ABT102 - v.107".

Your panel doesn't support 1080P - simple as that. It can't display it. The latest Panasonics can, but I don't really see a reason for feeding it 1080P from an upscaled source, as the TV then will only scale it back down to 1024x768 (in this case).

That's why you should output 1024x768, since this is the only resolution the TV can use directly without doing some scaling on its own. However - in your case, I think you'll probably have to "settle" for 720P.

backdoor

06-26-06, 02:13 PM

Yes if you use digital keystone on the projector you will loose 1:1 mapping. Try to reposition the projector so that keystoning is not needed.

Daniel.

Unfortunately, the projector cannot be moved (built in). Can any of the VP30 settings be adjusted to compensate??

Thanks....

backdoor

06-26-06, 02:21 PM

I have an Oppo 971H DVI-HDMI to VP30 v1.5 (without ABT102) HDMI out to DVI in of JVC DLA-HX2U projector.

Noticed several posting here have the Oppo 971. Unlike the new 970, 480i is not an available ouput resolution (480p, 540p, 720p, 1080i). Is 480p the best (least bad) to input to the VP30?

anam8tr

06-26-06, 02:41 PM

backdoor

06-26-06, 04:13 PM

duh... there ya go... all the analog outs are indeed 480i on the 971H. I was just assuming I should stay digital but perhaps not. I'll give it a try to see which looks better.

Josh@dvdo

06-26-06, 06:35 PM

Hi Aaron

Thanks for the feedback - I've had others confirm the Denon problem on here before, so it's interesting that it's not generic. If DVDO will tell me if they can or can't repro it, that would be great to know. Perhaps I just have a duff unit - although there are lots of post on hear about people reporting clicks which may well the be same thing.

If DVDO can't repro it, then perhaps I should try and get it swapped out, but need some guidance first. So, Josh, any comments?

Thanks again Aaron

Peter

Peter - We have tried to reproduce these problems in our lab with a Denon AVR-2807 and we have not been able to reproduce the issues that you point out. We have also done testing with HDMI audio on this same A/V receiver and all works perfectly. :confused:

anam8tr

06-26-06, 06:45 PM

Had my VP30 for about a week and so far I'm very pleased at the upscaling quality on my Z4.

With that said, there are a few things that I would've liked from a 2K scaler/switcher.

1) 2K---c,mon. If this had the things that I'm about to list, then maybe 2K is worth it.
2) the abilty to load a preset and the video in and out along with every module (brighness, contrast, borders, zoom, shift, etc...) can be called up in one shot.
3) ability to rename your presets (dvd,sat, games, etc...)
4) being able to to store your presets on your computer and then later after an update, load the presets back.
5) more video in's (more component, svid and a couple of DVI's)
6) another video output (1or2 more component and 1or2 more HDMI)
7) more optical in's (and a fix for the dropping's-I know this is being worked on)
8) a better remote (learning remote)
9) possibly an SD card loader for the presets
10) analog audio outs
11) croppping!!!! to crop the edge's without using underscan or zoom
12) to pan the image without using zoom
13) possibly a better color corrector? not sure if this is even doable on these boards.
It would be nice to have master, midtones and highlights seperate, rather than an overall on brightness and contrast.

I'm not here to knock the VP30 or anyone at DVDO. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm happy with this product and glad I bought it. Just would've been nice to have it more user friendly.

SJHT

06-26-06, 06:53 PM

you are correct, the dropouts are 100% random in nature

-Gary

Has anyone been able to reproduce an audio dropout? I'm wondering whether if I turn on my system, put a DVD in, hit play and then notice where I get the first audio dropout. Then turn off the system. Turn the system back on and play the DVD, would the audio dropout be at the same time? Otherwise, it must be completely random....

collinp

06-26-06, 07:07 PM

CJayB

06-26-06, 09:14 PM

I have certainly watched the same movie on multiple occasions and the dropouts seem to be at different spots each time. I haven't done a scientific experiment, though. There are so many timing variables (how long you wait after power up before inserting the disc, how long it takes you to navigate the DVD menu, etc.) that I don't know if a scientific experiment is really possible.

- Collin

I also have yet to get an audio dropout in the same place. Since firmware 1.00 to my current 1.07 there has been no change in the dropout rate, averaging about 1 per every 30 to 60 minutes, though once in a great while I can make it all the way through a movie without a dropout. I was about to try the 1.08 beta firmware to see if that helped with the dropout rate, but then I started seeing the problems with PAL and am now holding off until this problem can be fixed. About 10% of my DVD viewing is PAL through an SDI upgraded region free Panasonic RP91.

flyingvee

06-26-06, 10:08 PM

Has anyone been able to reproduce an audio dropout? Turn the system back on and play the DVD, would the audio dropout be at the same time? Otherwise, it must be completely random....

When I first upgraded to v1.07, I went almost a week without a dropout. Then had the first one. Skipped back immediately, the section played perfectly. As Collin suggested (and I had not considered) the VP30 was on for a longer period of time, the second time I played the clip.

With mine, it seems as if the dropouts are a "learned" behavior - it started without any, but the more I watch, the more often I have dropouts.

But who knows - the guys in the dvdo lab may have a hard time reproducing dropouts in any system, unless they spend a lot of time watching. After all - I thought V1.07 had it fixed for several hours. I imagine the guys at DVDO have more to do than spend hours on end listening for ONE droput - and what if they do hear it - they can't go back and hear it again. At least in my case, it is a lot like watching for meteors. You could go a whole night without one, and then you can get a bunch. But unless there is something inside the VP that the team KNOWS is causing them, it is likely going to be tough to find and correct this.

Maybe just wait for the 50, and pray for a very good upgrade offer. :(

aaronwt

06-26-06, 10:45 PM

I've had my VP30 and HDTiVos on for over 15 hours and didn't get any dropouts. This is with v1.07. With v1.08 the longest I've had it on so far is around 10 hours but still no problems.

Paul H

06-26-06, 11:41 PM

I've had my VP30 and HDTiVos on for over 15 hours and didn't get any dropouts. This is with v1.07. With v1.08 the longest I've had it on so far is around 10 hours but still no problems.Your very lucky. ;)

Gary Murrell

06-26-06, 11:52 PM

I think the dropouts would prolly also need to be considered with what pre-amp or receiver you are using, all have different reading of the digital inputs, error correction, etc etc.

I bet plenty of folks are not getting audio dropouts ;) which sucks even more for those that do :(

-Gary

StooMonster

06-27-06, 07:20 AM

Issues with PAL and v1.08
Anyone having issues with 576i / PAL content and v1.08, can you either PM me or post here what they are please. I'd like to try and help Josh and DVDO resolve them.

StooMonster

pers1

06-27-06, 07:27 AM

I`m using the VP30 and the ABT 102D card with the Meridian 800V4D
My problem is that on some DVD`s the Meridian displays the picture to much to the left
so I get an "black bar " on the right side of the picture.

I now have to use the zoom and pan function, I would have like to
move the picture left and right witout having to zoom on the VP 30.

my Denon 3910 works perfectly.

The VP30 and Interlaced Componet out on the 800, is far better tan using 720P HDMI
out on the 800!

PerS
Norway :cool:

mchaney

06-27-06, 08:15 AM

I've had my VP30 and HDTiVos on for over 15 hours and didn't get any dropouts. This is with v1.07. With v1.08 the longest I've had it on so far is around 10 hours but still no problems.
(1) How is the video connected from the HD Tivo to the VP30 and from the VP30 to the display? One of my theories is that the HDMI connection can cause "interference" of some sort.

(2) How is your VP30 arranged on the rack? I have my HD Tivo sitting right on top of the VP30 and I wonder if some of the problem might be RF interference. I had a modem once that would not operate at all if it was within 1 foot of the router. Move them apart and they work fine. I wonder if the issue could be RFI.

Mike

mchaney

06-27-06, 08:41 AM

My own personal top four requests for the VP30 are:

(1) Fix the audio bugs. Test with a variety of equipment/connections with various equipment in close proximity to the VP30 to try to replicate the problem.

(2) Fix the zoom bug! OAR Gods step aside. Most times I prefer to watch 2.35 movies without the black bars on the top/bottom and cut off some on the sides to preserve my plasma display and provide a bigger picture of the main action. Because the horizontal zoom is incapable or zooming more than about 130% (compared to the vertical zoom's 150% limit), I am unable to completely get rid of the black bars using zoom once I've gotten the underscan set up optimally for my display. I've posted all the gory details about this bug in other threads. Workarounds are no good because they cannot be saved as a preset (see below).

(3) Some parameters cannot be saved by the user. For example, overscan cannot be saved either with a "preset" or "display profile". There needs to be an option for "user profile" that saves ALL parameters!

(4) Make the VP30 output a valid HDMI signal at all times, even while switching inputs! This will prevent HDMI renegotiation and all the flickering/snow that occurs sometimes when you switch inputs.

That's it for me. The above would make me happier about the $2K I spent on this device. All of the above have been reported to beta@dvdo.com.

Mike

Jay182

06-27-06, 08:42 AM

You can also use Pan to move the picture left and right, up and down (only by the same amount that you have used Zoom though).

You don't have to reinstall the firmware after you have installed the ABT102 card. Since you have 1.07 now, you're good to go. Just open the box, pop it in there, reassemble the box, and hook it up. The Info screen should then say "iScan VP30/ABT102 - v.107".

Your panel doesn't support 1080P - simple as that. It can't display it. The latest Panasonics can, but I don't really see a reason for feeding it 1080P from an upscaled source, as the TV then will only scale it back down to 1024x768 (in this case).

That's why you should output 1024x768, since this is the only resolution the TV can use directly without doing some scaling on its own. However - in your case, I think you'll probably have to "settle" for 720P.

Thank you mate. Glad i don't have to bother with updating firmware, i had real agro doing it the other day. I've got the picture looking really good now, dvd's look fantastic, and i've still got the ABT card to come, so hopfully i should see more improvements, can't wait.
Thanks for your help!!

StooMonster

06-27-06, 09:19 AM

(2) Fix the zoom bug! OAR Gods step aside. Most times I prefer to watch 2.35 movies without the black bars on the top/bottom and cut off some on the sides to preserve my plasma display and provide a bigger picture of the main action. Because the horizontal zoom is incapable or zooming more than about 130% (compared to the vertical zoom's 150% limit), I am unable to completely get rid of the black bars using zoom once I've gotten the underscan set up optimally for my display. I've posted all the gory details about this bug in other threads. Workarounds are no good because they cannot be saved as a preset (see below).
Isn't this what the aspect ratio controls are for? Rather than zoom which is for removing overcan. The aspect ratio control settings can be saved too.

StooMonster

peteS

06-27-06, 09:58 AM

Peter - We have tried to reproduce these problems in our lab with a Denon AVR-2807 and we have not been able to reproduce the issues that you point out. We have also done testing with HDMI audio on this same A/V receiver and all works perfectly. :confused:

Hi Josh

Thanks for the info, but what would you suggest to resolve this. The problem is definately there with all the sources (I haven't tested HDMI) (Sky +, SKy HD, Denon DVD 3800 and XBox 360), so it's not a source problem. It was also confirmed in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=630295) by mskreis. When I have the sources connected directly to the receiver, all is fine. This only exists when connected via the VP30.

There would seem to be 2 possibilities. The amp is switching to Direct because it sees a 96khz PCM signal on the input. As I reported originally, this is "by design" for the amp - it's documented in the manual.
So, the question is - what should the VP30 do when it sees the audio input dissapear from the current input. In my case, the VP30 outputs a signal which confuses the 3802. Is this a) by design of the VP30 and this is a problem with the behaviour of the amp (even if it what the amp says it should do) and if so, why does it output this signal or b) is this a problem with my VP30 - in which case how do we solve it?

Thanks

pete S

hmuller

06-27-06, 11:47 AM

Has anyone been able to reproduce an audio dropout? I'm wondering whether if I turn on my system, put a DVD in, hit play and then notice where I get the first audio dropout. Then turn off the system. Turn the system back on and play the DVD, would the audio dropout be at the same time? Otherwise, it must be completely random....

Nope, tried that already and I could not reproduce it. It always seems to be completely random. I tried with my Tag AV32 and with my neighbours Yamaha AV amp and both sufferered dropouts during a nights viewing. Both were perfect when fed coax directly. I then plugged the VP30 coax out into my little Creative labs DD amp for my computer and that played perfectly with no dropouts :( . This is really device dependant but in saying that it is happening on enough equipment out there to deserve DVDO attention.

Many have also said that their previous HD+ units didnt suffer from the problem so the finger is definitely pointed at the VP30 here. Having thought about it for a while I have formuated two possible causes

1. Maybe the coax output level spikes every now and then and some amps just dont like the overvoltage causing a mute. I know that early xbox consoles used to periodically output at too high a level and some amps used to mute the signal as a result.

2. Maybe there are short times when the coax stream is corrupted or outputs incorrect data. Some amps simply ignore it and carry on. Others react and mute until valid data is received.

Just pure speculation but who knows.....

hifichip76

06-27-06, 11:48 AM

I thought maybe someone from DVDO might see this post and have some suggestions as to the problems I'm having with the vp30 with the ABT card installed.

In addition to the Star Wars opening crawl issue that I raised previously, I've been noticing artifacts on other dvd's, as well. I was watching The Untouchables dvd the other night. The paragraph that introduces the story (in the opening shot of the film) pulsates or "dances" like the Star Wars text. In this and other movies, signs in the movie also shimmer or wiggle like that (the Racine street sign in The Untouchables, for example).

Sometimes, the picture looks great. Some dvd's look very close to HD (very similar to how they look on my Sony 975 upscaled or Denon 3910), but then the "dancing" starts.

These shimmering or pulsating effects on letters and numbers are getting very distracting. I didn't have this with my upscaling Sony or Denon players (or with any of the other deinterlacers I've used, come to think of it).

I've tried it with both my Sony 975 and new Oppo 970 running 480i HDMI to the ABT.

ALso, the auto switching rarely works and when it does, the picture often goes blank after a few minutes. I have no idea why it would suddenly lose the signal.

I'm not trying to be negative or put ABT down. But to be honest, this is the most expensive deinterlacer set-up I own and the one that seems to perform the worst.

Is there any way for DVDO to fix this?

Gary Murrell

06-27-06, 01:31 PM

for film dvd's put the 102 on pure film mode, I only watch film on my setup with the VP30 so I set that to film and forget it, everything is peachy

-Gary

hifichip76

06-27-06, 01:42 PM

Thanks, but I've tried that.

mchaney

06-27-06, 02:50 PM

Isn't this what the aspect ratio controls are for? Rather than zoom which is for removing overcan. The aspect ratio control settings can be saved too.

StooMonster
No, that's not what the AR controls are for. In this case, you have a 16:9 picture going in and a 16:9 picture coming out. The black bars are built into the 16:9 picture. The zoom feature is what you use for zooming/cropping.

Mike

Gary Murrell

06-27-06, 03:01 PM

Thanks, but I've tried that.

well something is funky then, how are you inputting DVD? SDI, composite, component, svideo etc.

you may have a source problem, I have seen bad SDI mods cause shimmering

-Gary

hifichip76

06-27-06, 03:45 PM

I've experienced these artifacts, which have been acknowledged by ABT, when using my Sony 975 or Oppo 970 outputting 480i through HDMI to the vp30. They are also present using either of my Denon players through their component outs.

ABT says they're working on a fix for the "Star Wars Bug," which made me very happy, as whatever glitch that is is probably the same one causing many of the artifacts I (and several other owners) have been seeing.

collinp

06-27-06, 04:07 PM

SJHT

06-27-06, 04:12 PM

Does the AUTO setting ever work with HDMI? My DISH 622 is always on (even when the device is OFF, it still has video coming from it- so it is the last priority in my settings), but now I added an OPPO 970 HDMI DVD player. When I turn the OPPO DVD player OFF, AUTO will not search for another device (like my 622). It stays on the HDMI input for the OPPO player. SJ

oink

06-27-06, 04:30 PM

flint350

06-27-06, 05:49 PM

barrygordon

06-27-06, 07:42 PM

I am also lobbying very heavily to have the VP30 maintain a constant handshake to all HDMI input devices. I know for a fact (observable) that it does not. I have a pair of SA8300HD DVR's They have a "Neature" (negative feature) so that if the handshake stops, they put an annoying message on the screen about your non compliant display. I do not see this because I have just switched the VP30 away from that input. When you go back however, the have a "BUG" a real software defect that they have on the screen a set of black masks where the warning message used to be. They obviously generate the message internally and paint the pixels, but do not do it correctly when they get the handshake back.

All of this crap (not the VP30's direct fault) would go away, and I suspect a lot of other HDMI related S--T would aslo disappear if they spoofed the inputs. so the badly designed input devices with thier multiplicity of HDMI faults would operate in the simplest mode possible.

Gary Murrell

06-27-06, 11:47 PM

yeah including the picky as ****, Toshiba HD-DVD's :mad:

that is also my only real main beef with the VP30, I would love to see HDMI handshake full on for everything, but this may not be possible?

another small thing would be that the VP30 maintain a constant output timing and not blink out inbetween input/source switching, this gives my CRT units fits as they have to lose sync and resync between every input/source change

just small picky issues, I would prefer my 2nd fixed to the first although the HDMI thing would be nice indeed

Collin, I have been checking out that Star Wars stuff more lately, I can confirm that myself, and most certainly the bug where the discrete codes stop working, the HD unit I had before was the same on that one and it is annoying

-Gary

oferlaor

06-28-06, 02:59 AM

danielo

06-28-06, 04:35 AM

I've been watching a LOT of PAL content with the ABT102/1.08 release and no problems with Jaggies that I can see.

could this be localized to particular units?

I've been using the DVE PAL disk (I am too lazy to go back to 1.07 to do a comparison) and I'm not getting a lock on the S&W frame rate moving ball pattern. Can anyone with 1.07 check the moving ball pattern? If 2:2 is harder to lock with 1.07 than with 1.08 (for the life of me I can't see why that would be, after all the ABT102 is exactly the same) that might explain the issues people have been reporting.

Hai,

This is not a easy thing i guess, When i installed 1.08 i got the feeling it looked less. After a few hours more people started posting it making me think im not nuts :). Downgraded and got the feeling indeed it was better again. Im pondering how i can help getting a clear test case.

One thing i know is that i got the feeling watching soccer and other video content and not while watching movie content. My gut feeling is that its related to the NLS they added and now somehow the video chain changed. Maybe others can confirm they got the feeling mostly on video content ? I guess me calling it jaggies is confusing (could it be false mixed mode?).

Im not a expert and i understand that not having a clear smoking gun doesn't make this easy.

I try to do some more testing and maybe the others should also explain on what types of content they got the feeling it got worse.

Daniel.

DirectViewer

06-28-06, 03:08 PM

With 1.08 beta (and also with 1.07) the VP30 cannot accept an SXGA (1280x1024/60Hz) signal at its RGBHV input.

I've reported the bug to ABT and they acknowledged it. They said that 1.05 did not have the bug and that it would be fixed in the final release of 1.08.

flyingvee

06-28-06, 03:26 PM

I've reported the bug to ABT and they acknowledged it. They said that 1.05 did not have the bug and that it would be fixed in the final release of 1.08.

thanks, direct. Mine won't either, but I never got any acknowledgement one way or the other. Nice to know that it is a feature, not an error on my part.

TimPrice

06-28-06, 04:16 PM

Added ‘Panorama’ Feature
Non-linear stretch can now be applied to a 4:3 signal so that it will fill a 16:9 screen with minimal perceptual distortion in the center of the screen. This mode can be turned ‘On’ or ‘Off’ in the Input Aspect Ratio submenu. Additionally this feature can be accessed in the IAR presets and it is titled ‘4:3 Stretch’.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Panorama feature of v1.08, but it seems to me that the arc or parabola used for the non-linear stretch is deeper than other displays that use that same type of functionality. Any portrait view of a person makes them look like the football jocks that would stuff kids in lockers back in high school. (bad memories) :eek: Does anyone else think it is a little extreme? Could the depth be added as an adjustment?

Tim

joerod

06-28-06, 04:18 PM

I do like the added colorspace indication in the info section that firmware 1.08 provides. Hopefully they will jump on these issues others are reporting so they can be fixed quickly. I guess we will go on to 1.09...

mchaney

06-28-06, 05:02 PM

Could someone help me with the proper settings like the front, back, sync, etc. for a Panny Plasma TH-50PX20? I have it hooked up via the PC input on the front and I tried both of the 1366 x 768 formats on the VP30 and while the picture looks great, I can't get it centered vertically. I can mess with the horizontal front, back, and shift and get that so that it at least covers the screen but I can't seem to get the vertical right. Every time I start to change the vertical front, back or shift, I start losing the picture and I can't seem to get the picture big enough in the vertical.

Any tips/settings?

Thanks,
Mike

mchaney

06-28-06, 11:31 PM

Well after fiddling with it for an hour or so, I've got it going pretty good at 1366 x 768 on my TH-50PX20. I have the best picture I've ever seen on that set but I'm still not quite at native rate. The horizontal lines test pattern looks fine which tells me I'm OK on the vertical but the vertical lines just display as a solid gray which tells me I have something screwy going on with the horizontal. I tried playing with all the format settings for both horizontal and vertical sync, front, back, shift, etc. and I can't get anything but a solid gray screen when I choose vertical lines on the test pattern. Anyone know what parameters I should be fiddling with?

Edit: I've now spent a couple more hours trying settings and believe I have tried them all. Horizontal lines display as you'd expect but the vertical line pattern displays as solid gray. It's so solid and without rainbow effect that I believe it might have something to do with the way the panel displays adjacent vertical lines. If I change the rate to 48-50 Hz instead of 60, I can see the vertical lines but they flicker and they blur together in a repeating pattern every 6 inches or so. It's almost as if the refresh rate is too fast for it to display the vertical lines, but I don't understand why.

Anyone? It's getting lonely replying to myself. I'll also try posting in the native rate thread, but that thread gets very little traffic.

Thanks,
Mike

ailean

06-29-06, 09:07 AM

There would seem to be 2 possibilities. The amp is switching to Direct because it sees a 96khz PCM signal on the input. As I reported originally, this is "by design" for the amp - it's documented in the manual.
So, the question is - what should the VP30 do when it sees the audio input dissapear from the current input. In my case, the VP30 outputs a signal which confuses the 3802. Is this a) by design of the VP30 and this is a problem with the behaviour of the amp (even if it what the amp says it should do) and if so, why does it output this signal or b) is this a problem with my VP30 - in which case how do we solve it?

Thanks

pete S

There's two parts to this problem,

1) The VP30 outputs a 96Khz mute signal when no valid input. My guess is this is some default of the audio chip when it's not being sent data (my Yamaha amp confirms that's the signal type and I've seen other HD audio capably chips default to 96Khz when no data is there too, less hiss? :confused: ).

2) Certain (not all) Denon amps take this as a flag to switch to Direct Mode. The fact that not all Denon amps do this seems to indicate that at some point Denon realised that although this was neat it could coarse issues with some setups. I've not kept an eye on model numbers when this has been brought up but knowing Denon there is at least a vague chance that they might have a firmware version that disables this or makes it a user selectable option.

If my guess for 1) is correct then they'd have to generate data to send to the chip, a change like that could be tricky and might do more to break the not 100% stable audio (then again it might fix it if it's part of a general audio stream output management/monitoring system :D ).

peteS

06-29-06, 10:20 AM

There's two parts to this problem,

1) The VP30 outputs a 96Khz mute signal when no valid input. My guess is this is some default of the audio chip when it's not being sent data (my Yamaha amp confirms that's the signal type and I've seen other HD audio capably chips default to 96Khz when no data is there too, less hiss? :confused: ).

2) Certain (not all) Denon amps take this as a flag to switch to Direct Mode. The fact that not all Denon amps do this seems to indicate that at some point Denon realised that although this was neat it could coarse issues with some setups. I've not kept an eye on model numbers when this has been brought up but knowing Denon there is at least a vague chance that they might have a firmware version that disables this or makes it a user selectable option.

If my guess for 1) is correct then they'd have to generate data to send to the chip, a change like that could be tricky and might do more to break the not 100% stable audio (then again it might fix it if it's part of a general audio stream output management/monitoring system :D ).

Yep - I agree that's the likely circumstance, but I haven't managed to get a confirmation from DVDO if it's by design, or unhappy circumstance of design, or something that's an accident and can be rectified. The Denon amp behaviour is documented in their manual, but I haven't heard back from Josh etc. as to whether they accept that they output a 96Khz signal and whether they mean to.

hifichip76

06-29-06, 10:52 AM

ailean

06-29-06, 11:34 AM

Just a an putput setting question for me-

How should I set the output color space for my Sony LCD RPTV? It doesn't seem to make any difference when I change it. The Oppo 970 puts out rgb while my Sony hdmi outs out 4:2:2, I think.

The logic tends to go that internally the actually display panel of most digital TVs use RGB and a VP should be better at conversions then your average TV so sending RGB from the VP should be better (if the input accepts it).

However RGB is only 8bit, if your TV really can display a full 10bit input then possibly using 4:2:0 (10bit ???) will give you smoother gradients... but I've not heard much about people being able to do this in the real world.

talman

06-29-06, 10:54 PM

oink

06-30-06, 12:58 AM

Just a an output setting question for me-

How should I set the output color space for my Sony LCD RPTV? It doesn't seem to make any difference when I change it. The Oppo 970 puts out rgb while my Sony hdmi puts out 4:2:2, I think.

I use the 4:4:4 out of the 970 to the VP30 4:2:2 to a Sammie DLP 720p.
But my display will accept RGB, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4 without any problem.
I'm still experimenting.

mchaney

06-30-06, 01:06 AM

Question for VP30 experts: Can the VP30 take an analog or digital audio input and pass it through the HDMI output? I'm trying to figure out how many cables to run to my new flat panel and still be able to have audio through the TV for those times I don't want to turn on the receiver.
Yes. I believe it can pass any input to any output. At least I can't think of any exceptions to that rule other than maybe HDCP source content.

Mike

Jay182

06-30-06, 06:04 AM

Question for VP30 experts: Can the VP30 take an analog or digital audio input and pass it through the HDMI output? I'm trying to figure out how many cables to run to my new flat panel and still be able to have audio through the TV for those times I don't want to turn on the receiver.

I'm no expert. But yes it does. I have analog audio from sky box, into VP30, HDMI to TV and get sound no probs, also via digital coax to my amp. It's very clever ;)

Meenenator

06-30-06, 09:31 AM

Hi all!
Just received my VP30/ABT102 and have been playing with it ever since (i.e. a few days).
I finally got the time to calibrate my display (a TX200 PJ) from the VP30. I wanted to start with brightness/contrast. I got the guide from DVDO which descibe how to. Fairly detailed but somehow not clear enough.
http://www.dvdo.com/documents/AVIA_TP_Setup_2.pdf

I have previosly done B/C calibration using DVE/AIVA/xx.
However, when using the built-in-patterns of the VP30 I end up with a very bright picture (nominally my settings are B:-3, C:0 from AIVA, now I end up with B:+14, C:+13).

So my question would be: Am I reading the guide correctly?
Let me explain.
There are three black bars, and three white bars in the rectangles.
I am further assuming (from my understaning of the guide) that I shall see only the 2 left black bars (IRE1 and 2), and the 2 right white bars (in the two upper blocks). At least I think it is the two leftmost and rightmost bars (if my memory serves me correctly)... :o

So if any could give me a better understanding I would be an even happier camper.

Cheers!

SJHT

06-30-06, 12:45 PM

I use the 4:4:4 out of the 970 to the VP30 4:2:2 to a Sammie DLP 720p.
But my display will accept RGB, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4 without any problem.
I'm still experimenting.

Interested in the results of your experiment! I'm using RGB out of the 970 (switched it from AUTO) into the VP30 (and then to my Optoma H79)... Great picture, but wonder whether the 4:4:4 works better...

talman

06-30-06, 01:37 PM

Thank you Mike and Jay182! Sounds like the only cable I'll need to run to the LCD is the HDMI and possibly an RGBHV.

Does DVDO processors have discrete remote codes for the various inputs? I assume it does but want to make certain they do.

Mind Voyager

06-30-06, 01:49 PM

Does DVDO processors have discrete remote codes for the various inputs? I assume it does but want to make certain they do.Definitely - the supplied remote has unique buttons for all 12 inputs - if you check out page 7 of the manual (manuals are here (http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_pro_man.php)) you'll see what the remote can do. If you have a programmable remote there are even more discreet codes here (http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_setup.php)... although I think there are more codes than what is listed there.

talman

06-30-06, 02:04 PM

Definitely - the supplied remote has unique buttons for all 12 inputs - if you check out page 7 of the manual (manuals are here (http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_pro_man.php)) you'll see what the remote can do. If you have a programmable remote there are even more discreet codes here (http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_setup.php)... although I think there are more codes than what is listed there.

Thank you! It would be a deal breaker if they didn't. :D

flint350

06-30-06, 02:56 PM

Got to thinking last nite while watching a movie on my 2.35 CH setup. The only way I knew for the VP30 to do letterbox vertical stretch was to save a user profile with the correct aspect ratios and set vertical zoom as necessary. It takes about 70 v.zoom to fill my screen from a letterbox image, stretched horizontally via anamorphic lens. I always wondered about the 2.35 formats the VP30 had and why none were apparently able to just do this stretch as opposed to masking the image. Probably just me being stupid, but have I been missing something all this time?

Before the VP30, I used my Sim2 C3X to scale from "anamorphic" to "letterbox" to fill the screen. Lately I've left the Sim2 at anamorphic and zoomed vertically with the VP30 thinking it should scale somewhat better. I can't do an easy A/B to compare images this way, so just thought I'd ask. I assume the projector and VP30 are both just "zoom scaling" the image to stretch it, but it seems like the VP30 should be better at it and have a dedicated stretch mode rather than manual zoom and save by profile.

Josh Z

06-30-06, 04:23 PM

Got to thinking last nite while watching a movie on my 2.35 CH setup. The only way I knew for the VP30 to do letterbox vertical stretch was to save a user profile with the correct aspect ratios and set vertical zoom as necessary. It takes about 70 v.zoom to fill my screen from a letterbox image, stretched horizontally via anamorphic lens. I always wondered about the 2.35 formats the VP30 had and why none were apparently able to just do this stretch as opposed to masking the image. Probably just me being stupid, but have I been missing something all this time?

I'm not sure what you mean by "masking the image". If you tell the VP30 you have a 2.35:1 screen in your Output profile, and tell it that the disc is 2.35:1 in the Aspect Ratio settings, it will fill the screen.

flint350

06-30-06, 04:39 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "masking the image". If you tell the VP30 you have a 2.35:1 screen in your Output profile, and tell it that the disc is 2.35:1 in the Aspect Ratio settings, it will fill the screen.

That's the way I thought it was meant to work, but (unless I simply missed 1 setting - I'll ck. again tonite, but I've done this before), I've never gotten it to work like that. It simply filled in a letterbox image within the full frame, using masked borders. I'll give it another go.

Edit- I see my earlier post failed to clarify that I was not using a DVD (it works fine with anamorph. DVD) - I meant to say I was watching an OAR letterboxed movie in HD on HBO. I had recorded it by DVR and in playback, the only way to stretch the image was by zoom - either VP30 vert. zoom or built-in scaler in C3X. I assume that since the cable box sends the movie letterboxed within a 16:9 frame, the scaler only sees 1.78 and not 2.35, which may explain why I need to manually zoom the image vertically. Sorry for the confusion about the discs - that does work fine, it's cable box movies shown in OAR that I was referring to. Thanks.

TWD

06-30-06, 09:54 PM

flint350

06-30-06, 09:57 PM

How do you tell it the disc is 2:35:1?

Use the input aspect ratio setting to tell it the native ar of the source (1.78, 2.35, etc).

alfbinet

06-30-06, 09:59 PM

Hey guys. I have ordered this unit. I am not a techy sort of guy. I thought it would be fun to play with it to get the best picture I can (target is SD sat programs from Dish Network). Do I need an engineering degree from MIT to get this thing to work? Have I spent mucho money for something that is beyond my I.Q. (hence why did I spend so much cash?) It seems that there is some issues with this product.

HTSteve

06-30-06, 10:18 PM

It seems that with version 1.07 my Auto Priority function is no longer working. I went from Version 1.0 to 1.07 due to the ABT102 installation.

Is anyone else have this issue? This is actually a pain in the ***.

vfrjim

06-30-06, 10:41 PM

Josh Z

07-01-06, 10:20 AM

Edit- I see my earlier post failed to clarify that I was not using a DVD (it works fine with anamorph. DVD) - I meant to say I was watching an OAR letterboxed movie in HD on HBO.

What was the movie? Was it actually in HD, or was it a 4:3 letterbox upconvert (which would be seen on the HD channel as a 2.35:1 movie within a 4:3 box in the center of the 16:9 frame)?

I had recorded it by DVR

Dumb question, but is it an HD-capable DVR?

and in playback, the only way to stretch the image was by zoom - either VP30 vert. zoom or built-in scaler in C3X. I assume that since the cable box sends the movie letterboxed within a 16:9 frame, the scaler only sees 1.78 and not 2.35,

This is no different than the way DVD works, which you say doesn't give you the same issue. Both anamorphic DVD and HD are natively 16:9.

mskreis

07-01-06, 11:05 PM

Did anyone else get a SERIOUS ERROR 11 code in thier display and to contact the vendor? I no longer have video output(audio still works). I emailed DVDO to see what to do now :(

Perfect timing, I did not use my VP30 pretty much since I purchased it and now that I purchased a Projector, it died.

This happened to me last night for the first time (although it may have been SERIOUS ERROR 12 - I can't recall). I'm running 1.07 with the ABT102. I initially unplugged the unit for up to 10 minutes but every time I powered it on the unit was unresponsive to any commands. After leaving the unit unplugged for several hours it seems to be working fine again. Needless to say I was/am quite concerned.

vfrjim

07-01-06, 11:23 PM

This happened to me last night for the first time (although it may have been SERIOUS ERROR 12 - I can't recall). I'm running 1.07 with the ABT102. I initially unplugged the unit for up to 10 minutes but every time I powered it on the unit was unresponsive to any commands. After leaving the unit unplugged for several hours it seems to be working fine again. Needless to say I was/am quite concerned.

Mine might have been an error of 10, but the unit was responsive to the remote and front panel controls, but only audio came out and no video.

I have left mine unplugged for 24 hours and have not checked it as of yet.

mchaney

07-02-06, 08:11 AM

Mine might have been an error of 10, but the unit was responsive to the remote and front panel controls, but only audio came out and no video.

I have left mine unplugged for 24 hours and have not checked it as of yet.
Josh. We need a list of these "serious error" messages and what they mean. I got "Serious Error 10" one time when I first turned on the unit after buying it and (so far) never again. Since my UPS was on the fritz and I replaced it after that, I hoped it was nothing more than a line voltage problem. It sure would be nice to know what these error messages are rather than just seeing the "call dealer" message. I did try calling tech support but I can never get anyone to answer the phone no matter what time of day I call DVDO. I've also sent a few emails to help@dvdo.com asking tech support questions and have yet to get an answer from those either. DVDO really needs to be a bit more responsive re: tech support.

Mike

cyborgx

07-02-06, 09:58 AM

Sorry if this has already been answered. I used to follow this thread, but searching for answers picked up 5 pages of results, so hoped I could get a quick answer here. the FAQ at the start states:-

Q: If I connect an HDMI (audio/video) source to the iScan VP30 will I be able to get audio out via the optical/coaxial digital outputs?
A: In most cases the audio that is available on the HDMI connection will be available on the optical/coaxial audio outputs. Exceptions include MLP (DVD-Audio) and DSD (SACD) which SPDIF connections are incapable of carrying due to bandwidth limitations.

My question is: Is this true even for HDCP protected HDMI input data?

joerod

07-02-06, 10:00 AM

We do need an ongoing list (or chart) that let's us know what the errors mean. Atleast then we could troubleshoot easier... :)

drhankz

07-02-06, 10:30 AM

Josh. We need a list of these "serious error" messages and what they mean. I got "Serious Error 10" one time when I first turned on the unit after buying it and (so far) never again. Since my UPS was on the fritz and I replaced it after that, I hoped it was nothing more than a line voltage problem. It sure would be nice to know what these error messages are rather than just seeing the "call dealer" message. I did try calling tech support but I can never get anyone to answer the phone no matter what time of day I call DVDO. I've also sent a few emails to help@dvdo.com asking tech support questions and have yet to get an answer from those either. DVDO really needs to be a bit more responsive re: tech support.

Mike

VP30 does not like a UPS. They use a cheap switching supply that does not like the non-sine wave output from the UPS. If yours is working with a UPS - Count your blessings. Your luck with DVDO on the phone also seems bad. I have reached a live DVDO tech support person every time except once.

TWD

07-02-06, 11:53 AM

sspears,

The 1080p RP DLPs do not contain 1920 physical mirrors. They are 960x1080 and use what some call wobbulation. I am not sure if you can actually get 1:1 with this type of disiplay.

I should know the answer in a few weeks.

I have you determined how to do the 1:1 pixel mappings?

mchaney

07-02-06, 12:18 PM

VP30 does not like a UPS. They use a cheap switching supply that does not like the non-sine wave output from the UPS. If yours is working with a UPS - Count your blessings. Your luck with DVDO on the phone also seems bad. I have reached a live DVDO tech support person every time except once.
It isn't just plugged into a cheap UPS. The UPS itself has voltage regulation and a line conditioner built in, and there is also a Monster Power HTS-3500 power center between the UPS and the VP30. Also, the problems you mention are generally only applicable to a UPS running on backup power. With AC power connected, it is basically running in pass-through mode.

Mike

Axatax

07-02-06, 12:19 PM

VP30 does not like a UPS. They use a cheap switching supply that does not like the non-sine wave output from the UPS.

Nonsense.

mrwilson

07-02-06, 08:47 PM

I've run my iScans on UPS' since the Plus. Never had any problems.

drhankz

07-02-06, 08:57 PM

I've run my iScans on UPS' since the Plus. Never had any problems.

I have a BRAND NEW VP30 - IT WILL NOT RUN on a UPS. It WILL NOT EVEN
BOOT. I talked with DVDO Tech Support Live - They said send the unit back
it is seriously BROKEN. I unplugged it from the UPS and EVERYTHING is
PERFECT. It is 100% Repeatable.

flint350

07-02-06, 09:09 PM

What was the movie? Was it actually in HD, or was it a 4:3 letterbox upconvert (which would be seen on the HD channel as a 2.35:1 movie within a 4:3 box in the center of the 16:9 frame)?
Dumb question, but is it an HD-capable DVR?
This is no different than the way DVD works, which you say doesn't give you the same issue. Both anamorphic DVD and HD are natively 16:9.

Yes to all above. However, using your method and simply repeating step-step, I found the problem. Simple, as I suspected. It boiled down to a macro series on my MX-3000 resetting some AR's. There's a long (uninteresting) story to why this happened and I didn't notice it, but, good news is, it's back to working as it should and I am re-programming the macro. Thanks Josh for taking the time to help solve what I should have been able to do on my own. You're a gentleman.

mchaney

07-03-06, 08:20 AM

I have a BRAND NEW VP30 - IT WILL NOT RUN on a UPS. It WILL NOT EVEN
BOOT. I talked with DVDO Tech Support Live - They said send the unit back
it is seriously BROKEN. I unplugged it from the UPS and EVERYTHING is
PERFECT. It is 100% Repeatable.
Since no one else is having the problem, maybe DVDO was right and you should have returned it!

Mike

joerod

07-03-06, 09:47 AM

No problems here... I would return it...

Josh Z

07-03-06, 10:01 AM

Yes to all above. However, using your method and simply repeating step-step, I found the problem. Simple, as I suspected. It boiled down to a macro series on my MX-3000 resetting some AR's. There's a long (uninteresting) story to why this happened and I didn't notice it, but, good news is, it's back to working as it should and I am re-programming the macro. Thanks Josh for taking the time to help solve what I should have been able to do on my own. You're a gentleman.

Glad to hear you figured it out.

oliverlim

07-03-06, 11:13 AM

mskreis

07-03-06, 12:51 PM

This happened to me last night for the first time (although it may have been SERIOUS ERROR 12 - I can't recall). I'm running 1.07 with the ABT102. I initially unplugged the unit for up to 10 minutes but every time I powered it on the unit was unresponsive to any commands. After leaving the unit unplugged for several hours it seems to be working fine again. Needless to say I was/am quite concerned.

I'm now experiencing a new problem. My unit appeared to be OK after being unplugged for a while, but I'm getting no picture from any 480i sources. This is true for both my Pio 59avi and HD Tivo. Audio is working and my signal LED is blue.

If I unplug the unit for a few seconds everything is fine. I've had to do this twice now. Any suggestions? I went ahead and installed 1.08 last night - will see what happens tonight.

collinp

07-03-06, 04:06 PM

Wonder which Black Level does everyone use? PC or Video level. I know for DVD, Video level is the correct one as then you have headroom for BTB and WTW. But I have also heard that if you can get your source to use PC levels and your display to be set to PC Level, you can actually maximise your Black LEvels?

I am using the Pio DV79 which can be set to Enhanced Levels for HDMI (PC levels) which still passes BTB and WTW. My Hitachi TX200 also can be set to accept PC LEvels. So if the whole chain can be set to PC Levels for blacks and I can still see BTB and WTW, then would this be better as it maximises my contrast ratio?

Oliver

Video levels.

The CRT based Sony Reference Monitor is the standard for mastering all DVDs and TV broadcasts. It shows BTB and WTW so video levels should be used to pass BTB and WTW information.

In the video levels system there will be 16 steps of black information below actual black. In the PC levels system black and all below black information will be mapped to zero. Therefore if a PC level system is setup properly you will see no blacker than black information. The same goes for whiter than white.

If you're seeing BTB and WTW then something is set to video levels somewhere. Another possibility is that brightness and contrast controls somewhere are set wrong (perhaps in the DVD player).

Video levels are the right levels to use. There are really no secret gains to be found here. Yes, with PC levels a few more codes are dedicated to the middle of the scale, but it isn't the quadrupling of codes that the transition from 8 to 10 bit processing brings. Not to mention that most HT displays are inherently video level RGB devices and will convert PC levels to Video levels at the input anyway. If you try PC levels you'll see hard clipping at the top and bottom of the scale and no tangible increase in PQ in the rest of the scale.

- Collin

Allan Probin

07-03-06, 05:19 PM

If I connect a Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player to the VP30 using HDMI and configure the Toshiba to output 5.1 channel PCM, will the VP30 support this setup and pass the multi-channel PCM signal through to the HDMI output?

I've searched through this thread but the findings are a bit inconsistent as to whether this currently works or not. Assuming if/when it works, will the VP30 audio delay still be applied to an audio signal passing through of this format?

Allan

flint350

07-03-06, 05:45 PM

I did try calling tech support but I can never get anyone to answer the phone no matter what time of day I call DVDO. I've also sent a few emails to help@dvdo.com asking tech support questions and have yet to get an answer from those either. DVDO really needs to be a bit more responsive re: tech support.
Mike

This is OT, but, Mike - I've been using QI Pro for years now and if your really expect any other software or hardware maker to keep up with your personal level of support and updates, etc., you are seriously deluded. It can't be done and I still don't know how you do it! :D

mchaney

07-03-06, 06:03 PM

This is OT, but, Mike - I've been using QI Pro for years now and if your really expect any other software or hardware maker to keep up with your personal level of support and updates, etc., you are seriously deluded. It can't be done and I still don't know how you do it! :D
:D

Thanks. I guess seeing Josh post here in this thread made me hopeful that DVDO was monitoring this thread. Nothing against Josh or DVDO but they only seem to check in maybe once a week and then only reply to the last 1 or 2 questions. By that time, a dozen important points/questions have scrolled off the current page or two and get missed by DVDO.

Oh well, just having someone from DVDO check in here from time to time is more than you can ask I guess.

Mike

oliverlim

07-04-06, 11:08 AM

Video levels.

The CRT based Sony Reference Monitor is the standard for mastering all DVDs and TV broadcasts. It shows BTB and WTW so video levels should be used to pass BTB and WTW information.

In the video levels system there will be 16 steps of black information below actual black. In the PC levels system black and all below black information will be mapped to zero. Therefore if a PC level system is setup properly you will see no blacker than black information. The same goes for whiter than white.

If you're seeing BTB and WTW then something is set to video levels somewhere. Another possibility is that brightness and contrast controls somewhere are set wrong (perhaps in the DVD player).

Video levels are the right levels to use. There are really no secret gains to be found here. Yes, with PC levels a few more codes are dedicated to the middle of the scale, but it isn't the quadrupling of codes that the transition from 8 to 10 bit processing brings. Not to mention that most HT displays are inherently video level RGB devices and will convert PC levels to Video levels at the input anyway. If you try PC levels you'll see hard clipping at the top and bottom of the scale and no tangible increase in PQ in the rest of the scale.

- Collin

Thanks Collin. For DVDs this was easy to set right (Video). But for my HDTV box, when ever I set my Hitachi Projector to Enhanced and the VP30 output level to PC, I get a much better contrast. With both set to Video, I seem to get that feeling that there is a haze over the whole picture. Perhaps my HD box is outputting PC levels instead of video levels....

Oliver

Ivor

07-04-06, 09:59 PM

I recently purchased the VP30 and is very happy with it. Still trying to read through this thread and trying out all the various configurations.

However, due to the overwhelming expertise here, I would like to draw on your advice on how to config my system. Below is a chart indicating the routing of the video/audio signals.

Couple of questions:

1. Should I connect the DV9600 (hdmi 480i), Xbox 360 (720p output) to the VP30 (simply use it as a swithcer?) or directly to projector? In other words, should I get another HDMI switcher sitting between the projector and my other sources as an alternate to the VP30?

2. In future, should I connect the Bluray or HD-DVD directly to the projector or route through the VP30, i.e. which scaler should I use? Assuming that I either upgrade to a VPL-VW100 or a VP11S1.

3. Do I need to think about 1080i de-interlacing at some point and what are my options?

4. For audio, will it sound different sonically if I use HDMI to carry audio signal and then coaxial to the A1XV or directly from the sources audio output to the A1XV?

5. Actually, my Samsung DVDR is pal, therefore outputing at 576i. I am presuming that the signal will be de-interlaced just like the PS2 signal of 480i, right?

BTW, I am very happy with the ABT102D de-interlacing capabilities for SD material.

http://homepage.mac.com/ichow/.Pictures/HT%20Design.jpg

Many thanks in advance...

mskreis

07-05-06, 09:08 AM

Lately I've been plagued by errors. I've had 2 of the above errors in 2 days. Both occurred while I was changing inputs. What does this error mean?

Thanks

drhankz

07-05-06, 07:29 PM

It isn't just plugged into a cheap UPS. The UPS itself has voltage regulation and a line conditioner built in, and there is also a Monster Power HTS-3500 power center between the UPS and the VP30. Also, the problems you mention are generally only applicable to a UPS running on backup power. With AC power connected, it is basically running in pass-through mode.

Mike

With all that conditioning - all is well for the VP30.

UPS are NOT really in pass-through mode when power is on.
There is electronics in BOTH paths so when the power fails
the switch over is smooth and doesn't back into the SUPPLY
side from the backup side.

vfrjim

07-05-06, 10:40 PM

I got an email response from DVDO and recommended doing a "hard reset" but the instructions did not work, but was able to do a factory reset through the menu's and now it works, I hope it does not happen again.

Hey DVDO, ANY ideas when the HDMI handshaking problem with the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 will be fixed? This is a MAJOR problem and needs to be addressed.

Thanks,

Jim

bfrench

07-06-06, 08:52 AM

Hi guys,
When I fire up my pj through the VP30, the
screen always displays the split test pattern
(colour bars) regardless of source and input.
Is there anyway to stop this so I don't have
to turn it off every time?

Barry

liam_b

07-06-06, 09:56 AM

install v1.08 firmware it fixes that bug

speters

07-06-06, 10:13 PM

Does anyone have any discrete codes or .ccf file for the latest VP30 firmware update? I am using the Home Theater Master MX-700. Please pm me.
Thanks,
Steve

vfrjim

07-06-06, 10:27 PM

Does anyone have any discrete codes or .ccf file for the latest VP30 firmware update? I am using the Home Theater Master MX-700. Please pm me.
Thanks,
Steve

Here is mine from a MX700/MX850, 1.07(not 1.08) but should be the same.

jay07059

07-06-06, 11:13 PM

I have searched through this thread, but have not found an answer to a problem I am having. I am hoping someone can help.

When I hook my Toshiba XA1 to the VP30 via hdmi, the picture shows up for like 3 seconds, and then the curtain on the VP30 closes. Nothing I do will open it. If I switch to another input, and then back, I see the picture again for 2-3 seconds, and the curtain closes. Any idea? I have it hooked up via component right now, by I would like to use the HDMI. The VP30 is hooked up to a BenQ 8720 FP. Firmware is 1.07

Thanks,

Jay

agrsiv95

07-06-06, 11:40 PM

Scott KL

07-06-06, 11:48 PM

I've also had problems with Serios Error 24. I was told by my dealer that this was because the software for the AB102 card was not installed, however, I was running V1.07 from the outset. I would play a DVD and then the following day after leaving the TV and DVD on standby the error message would be displayed. Even one time when playing a DVD the screen went black and the error message appeared.

I've also been continually having problems updating the software after doing a hard reset. The unit will not respond at all and I have to leave it for a day to start again.

I installed V1.08 beta successfully last night thinking it might help. After hooking up my system and watching a DVD everything looked good (and I mean the picture looked good and the VP30 was working!).

After watching the DVD I stopped it and put the TV on standby. Returning this morning the VP30 blue light was flashing (I think this means it is processing a HDCP signal). I then powered off the DVD player using the remote and the VP30 immediately displayed the 'Serious Error 24 - Please contact dealer' message again. This would suggest an incompatibility issue with the DVD player and VP30. I have the Asian equivalent to the Pioneer AV59i (DV-969i) with Pioneer 505-HDG connected via HDMI. Other equipment connected is satellite box via s-video and Xbox 360.

Scott

Josh Z

07-07-06, 10:30 AM

When I hook my Toshiba XA1 to the VP30 via hdmi, the picture shows up for like 3 seconds, and then the curtain on the VP30 closes. Nothing I do will open it. If I switch to another input, and then back, I see the picture again for 2-3 seconds, and the curtain closes. Any idea? I have it hooked up via component right now, by I would like to use the HDMI. The VP30 is hooked up to a BenQ 8720 FP. Firmware is 1.07

The curtain closes when the VP30 can't confirm an HDCP handshake with your display.

jay07059

07-07-06, 12:07 PM

The curtain closes when the VP30 can't confirm an HDCP handshake with your display.

Thank you for the response. At least now I know why it is happening. The interesting thing, after I saw your post, I hooked the XA1 up directly to the projector with an HDMI cable, and had no issues. I wonder if there is a specific issue with the VP30 talking to the BenQ8720. I will try tech support @ DVDO.

Jay

mskreis

07-07-06, 09:30 PM

talman

07-08-06, 12:37 AM

Well I finally decided on my first VP and after my interaction with them I'm glad I chose DVDO.

I won this past month's charity auction at DVDO and a few days after placing my bid I realized that I really needed the RGBHV output of the VP30. I was resigned to getting the VP20 and not having that functionality but after winning the auction I inquired about getting a VP30 package, because of my recently acquired knowledge, at an incremental price increase instead of the VP20 expecting to be rebuffed and told that it wasn't possible that it was my fault and that's what I was getting.

To my complete surprise, DVDO was quick to accomidate my request and sold me the VP30. What a class act company!! The reps I have spoken with are top notch, quick to respond and have completely reassured me that I made the correct choice inspite of not fullfilling all my desires (HD deinterlacing--I'll wait patiently for the VP50).

So in the next week or so I'll be the proud owner of a VP30 with ABT102 and silver bezel!! I'm really excited to see what this unit can do for my DVD collection when paired with the Oppo 970HD 480i output.

My question for everyone is am I better off going with a RGBHV output (1360x768) that can get closer to my panel's native display (1366x768) than by going with an all digital path with HDMI at 720p or 1080i?

Axatax

07-08-06, 02:23 AM

am I better off going with a RGBHV output (1360x768) that can get closer to my panel's native display (1366x768) than by going with an all digital path with HDMI at 720p or 1080i?

Absolutely.

Slonk

07-08-06, 08:08 AM

Just in case anyone would care to reproduce, here are my findings with the 1.08 beta firmware.

In use: VP30/ABT102 with 1.07 fw. Connected to this is a Panasonic 42" TH-42PWD SD plasma, via the analog (BNC) 852x480 output, RGB colorspace and this was tested @ 50Hz (PAL country).

Using 1.07 (and pervious firmware's) i had perfect 1:1 pixelmapping as shown by the clear vertical and horizontal lines with the respective testpatterns of the VP30. Also the checkerboard pattern is very clear.

However, after upgrading to 1.08 i was unable to get a sharply divided vertical line pattern. In stead it was even grey. Horizonal pattern was still ok.

It almost seems as if the output signal was not as defined on the 1.08, but i have no scope to check the signal, so this is pure speculation. Also the timings of 1.08 were a little different compared to 1.07 as witnessed by the total horizontal shift of the image, but this was easy to correct.

vfrjim

07-08-06, 10:25 AM

Could someone else have this issue? I am feeding a Mits Proj (WD2000U) a native resolution from a HTPC (1280x768) and it works fine, but when I put it through the VP30, it does not pass the image, I get NO image on the screen unless I remote into the HTPC and tell it to use a 720P resolution. BUT this work fine if I hook up the HTPC to the projector. Anyone? DVDO?

Thanks

SJHT

07-08-06, 04:27 PM

Watched the DVD of pirates (black pearl) last night with the family in anticipation of going to the new movie today. Had 3-4 audio drops during the movie. My spouse always comments "what's that"... Again, this NEVER happened with my old HD unit. Never. Using coax digital audio connection (HDMI for video only).... Has DVDO indicated that they have fixed this? SJ

big_marcelo

07-08-06, 06:54 PM

cyborgx

07-09-06, 12:33 AM

I read the article on the DVDO website by Widescreen Reivew that states "Anchor Bay has promised that an HDMI and RGBHV pass-through feature will be enabled via a firmware upgrade in the near future". I also saw it mentioned and ignored earlier in this thread.

I think the guys at DVDO are great, and it's a wonderful product, but is this evergoing to be done? The article was dated April Issue, so I am guessing that means was written some time in March or earlier. I also noticed that it is not even in the latest Beta notes. Is there a problem?

The main reasons I may purchase the VP30 is as a Video consolidation hub, and if I have to buy a seperate 1080p switch to bypass it for all 1080p HDMI devices, it kind of defeats the object.

Also 1 technical question. Are both Digital audio outputs active all the time or only 1?

vfrjim

07-09-06, 09:21 AM

The VP30 will not accept 1280x768 as a valid input resolution - 720p is your best option - or go directly to the panel.

Is this written somewhere? On thier website it reads "Any resolution In to Any resolution out" (or something like that), DVDO----What gives?

cyborgx

07-09-06, 09:36 AM

When they do it, I am not quite sure how they will implement it, but for my purchasing decision, I need it to pass through 1080p (audio and video) to the HDMI, and also make the audio available at the Digital Optical out. I hope this is what they are thinking of doing.

Basically this is exactly what they are already doing now right? But this time they don't need to process the 1080p video input data at all. I am sure it is a lot more complicated for them to do, but they did promise someone ..... :(

I hope it doesn't go the same way as a similar previous attempt to give digital input scaling with the Iscan HD that was dropped because the procesor got too hot. I'm pretty sure it won't make the processor too hot (since it's not changing the signal) but perhaps there is some other problem blocking the way.

Josh, could you give us an idea of if, and in what way you are planning on implementing this function, and a vague timeframe? Don't worry, I won't complain if you miss the timeframe.

so to paraphrase my questions Iincluding one from last week :-
1) Is it true that HDMI audio is always passed to the Digital outputs, even for HDCP protected HDMI input data?

2) Are both digital audio outputs active all the time?

3) When and how will 1080p video passthrough be implemented?

Hope we get an answer to 3 from DVDO, and perhaps one of you lucky owners can answer 1 and 2 for me.

flyingvee

07-09-06, 10:16 AM

Is this written somewhere? On thier website it reads "Any resolution In to Any resolution out" (or something like that), DVDO----What gives?

Basically a blatant misstatement. I ran into same thing months ago - when you read manual, you will find that the VP will only accept a very limited number of computer resolutions thru the RGBHV inputs. If you are using DVI, that might be different. But the VP absolutely, positively does not accept "Any resolution in.." via RGBHV.

You would think they would remove such misleading ad copy. I have had to retain my sony switcher, just so I can watch computer output on my projector. NOT exactly what I had in mind, when I purchased a buggy, overpriced, switching scaler.

And that was my bad - should have called them on that on day one - but I mistakenly figured that the input limitaions were one of the things they were going to address, since it was so clearly advertised on their site, in their lit. :(

mjd5676

07-10-06, 04:31 PM

So, somewhat funny story here. I was searching for a decent component switch which hold its own in the looks department in the rack with my other AV gear. An owner of an SP-4805, I quickly ran out of inputs. I was at my local Fry's in Austin, and saw this DVDO video proc. I picked up the remote which had the price tag affixed and saw 299.00 and thought, wow this would be an excellent component switch, even handling my hdmi components and upscaling to 1080i. I quickly grabbed the only unit they had in stock and thought, well this is more than I want to spend but exactly what I need. After the clerk scanned the box and hurried through my smaller purchases, she told me the total was $1500. I gasped for a second, and told her I wouldn't be needing the scaler. She asked me again and I said I must have grabbed the wrong box. So I paid for the other items, took them to the car and then returned to the display area to double-check the price. I picked the remote back up to check, and the security cord that was attached had covered the very important 1, in front of the 299. I later checked DVDO's website and thought how stupid of me to think a video processor of its caliber could be as cheap as a lower-end audio receiver. I then purchased the Pelican System Selector 2.0 which works well for what its worth, and looks nice in the rack.

vfrjim

07-10-06, 11:12 PM

Looks like DVDO did not respond.

bobloblaw

07-11-06, 04:09 PM

Has anyone noticed "image softness" with the 1.08 firmware using NTSC material? It seems like all the posts relating to this are PAL sources.

Just trying to decide if I want to go ahead and install 1.08 beta or wait until the final version is released. 1.07 is working great for me right now. All my sources are NTSC.

Thanks.

keenan

07-11-06, 05:11 PM

FWIW, I just watched a PAL DVD last night, the UK "Waking The Dead", a TV series, and it looked spectacular, no issues whatsoever, very high level of detail in the image. Using a SDI-modded Denon 5900 feeding the VP30 with 1.08

talman

07-11-06, 05:50 PM

I have a new VP30 + deinterlacer coming in the near future and have a few questions:

1) I'm strongly considering getting a SDI modified DVD player. It's possible to have both the ABT102 and the SDI option installed on the same VP30 isn't it? I can't imagine it being a one or the other choice.

2) When using an DVR device such as a Tivo is it best to feed the VP30 SVideo or just standard composite video?

keenan

07-11-06, 05:53 PM

The answer to 1) is yes, both SDI and the ABT102 can be installed in the same VP30.

Can't answer 2) don't use those type of signals, but my guess would be S-video over composite.

Gary Murrell

07-11-06, 06:01 PM

talman

07-11-06, 06:14 PM

Thanks gentlemen for the help. I knew that the least processed signal was the way to go for DVD (480i HDMI or SDI) but wasn't sure about composite vs svideo.

Anyone out there hooking up a HD DVR STB (Comcast Motorola 6412 ver 1 with DVI) to the VP30? If I remember correctly the only output settings on the 6412 are 720p or 1080i. Any insight into best practices with an STB?

Shake1

07-11-06, 06:43 PM

That is a great question Talman. I too have the Motorla STBs (QIP6416-1 & 2) with Verizon FIOS service.

Shake1

Exile

07-11-06, 08:17 PM

............................................................ ..................................................
Anyone out there hooking up a HD DVR STB (Comcast Motorola 6412 ver 1 with DVI) to the VP30? If I remember correctly the only output settings on the 6412 are 720p or 1080i. Any insight into best practices with an STB?

I do. SD is set to output 480i and HD 1080i I am not sure what you mean by best practice as the options on the 6412 are pretty limited.

oferlaor

07-12-06, 03:31 AM

talman,

That's how i have it set up - my DVD is coming in through SDI (still haven't had a chance to shootout the DVD quality between SDI and HDMI from the new oppo 970H).

talman

07-12-06, 12:42 PM

Thanks again for the advice!

I've learned that it's impossible to go from HDMI to analog RGBHV output (without some sort of HDCP removing device) but is it possible to take an analog video and audio signal, have them combined and sent out via the HDMI output of the VP30 to the display?

cosmos5861

07-12-06, 03:34 PM

Satellite signal from Dish and Directv is composite in nature, you are either using the Comb Filter in the VP30 or the Tivo, my guess would be the VP30 being better ;)

use composite to the VP30

-Gary
So if I have a directv h20 receiver, I should be using component cable to vp30? I am using HDMI now.

Gary Murrell

07-12-06, 03:39 PM

cosmos, when viewing SD channels, set the Directv receiver to output 480i via HDMI and you are good ;), if it won't do that and all outputs are active at once, then run the composite(not component) to the VP30 for viewing SD channels only and leave the HDMI connected for HD channels

-Gary

bbexperience

07-13-06, 04:52 PM

Hello all. Long time reader, first time poster.

Over the past couple of days I've read practically all of this thread. However I still have questions on whether I should be looking a scaler at all and if so, if this is the right one for me. So, a little guidance is what I'm looking for here.

Part of my problem is that I currently have absolutely nothing in the HD arena, so the only thing I have for comparison purposes is my 7 yr old Toshiba 36" CRT. However, I'm in the process of building a house and want to outfit it with all new video gear. Right now I'm planning on getting two Samsung DLPs, one for gaming (HLS5687), and one for TV/movie watching (HLS6187). I'll also be getting DishNetwork service, probably with their ViP622 STB. Finally, I have a Sony 5-disc DVD changer, not upconverting but I'm pretty sure it has an HDMI port (I currently use the component). And, of course, I'm considering the VP30 w/the 102 daughterboard.

SO, given the above, my first question is do I really even need a scaler, as it relates to picture quality? Much of what we watch is still in SD, but obviously we'll also be watching as much HD as possible :) . As I understand it, the Dish 622 outputs everything (HD & SD) at a set resolution, and therefore will be doing quite a bit of scaling on it's own. Also, I understand that it's not possible to bypass the scaling on the HLS Samsungs, which are 1080p which the VP30 can't truly output. So what I'm afraid of is ending up with a highly degraded signal by the time it scales through the Dish, then the VP30, then the TV. Does anyone have the Dish 622 with the VP30 or an HLS Samsung with the VP30, or better yet, a combination of both?

Secondly, the issue of gaming. The Samsungs have a "gaming mode" which I understand works pretty well, and the VP30's daughterboard has gaming mode as well. BUT, do they play well together? I'd love to get an improved picture on my older (from original NES to Xbox) systems as well as the Xbox 360, but definitely not at the cost of lag. Anyone have any experience/insight on this?

As I said above, I really have no HD experience to compare PQ with except what I've seen at Best Buy and Circuit City. I did look at the 61" version of that TV at both stores and the SD PQ was less than impressive, to say the least, which is why I started even considering a scaler. And before anyone says anything, I'm not completely retarded, I do realize that that quality isn't necessarily what I'd see at home :rolleyes: . But it IS my only reference, unfortunately.

The VP30 looks like the best bang-for-the-buck in the scaler department, especially with the daughterboard. I'm just hoping some of you can give me some advice BEFORE I make a stupid mistake one way or the other.

Sorry for the ridiculously long 1st post!

-Matt-

P.S. On a related note, does anyone have pics/screencaps of PQ before and after VP30, particularly with SD content? I haven't seen any, but that would be an awesome addition if someone could post some, or links to some. I know everybody's setup is different, but at least it could give people a rough idea of what this thing can do, especially us HT/HD newbs.

drhankz

07-13-06, 05:00 PM

MATT:

My TWO cent worth suggestion is NOT to buy ANY Scaler.

Buy a Toshiba HDA1 HD-DVD - It will up convert SD DVDs
as good as the Scaler and everything else is HD already.

bbexperience

07-13-06, 05:08 PM

MATT:

My TWO cent worth suggestion is NOT to buy ANY Scaler.

Buy a Toshiba HDA1 HD-DVD - It will up convert SD DVDs
as good as the Scaler and everything else is HD already.
I had thought of that. However, what if HD-DVD doesn't win the raging "format war"? If there was a player that did both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray AND good scaling it'd be a no-brainer for movies. Of course then it would probably cost $3K. I just don't think I'm willing to gamble on what could be Betamax v2.

The other thing is that I really want to get SD broadcast as good as it can be, and the HDA1 won't help with that.

drhankz

07-13-06, 05:16 PM

The other thing is that I really want to get SD broadcast as good as it can be, and the HDA1 won't help with that.

Don't you get SD broadcasts from Satellite?

There is an OLD saying in the engineering world.

"Garbage In equals Garbage out."

My HD Receiver scales up SD broadcasts as GOOD as the VP30.

dlm10541

07-13-06, 06:45 PM

My HD Receiver scales up SD broadcasts as GOOD as the VP30.
Do you have a VP-30 to justify this stance.

I agree the Toshiba HDDVD does a good job on SD DVDs but the Oppo 970 at 480i HDMI to the VP-30 with ABT102 does a super job.

Inputting 480i SD cable to the VP-30 is definitely an improvement over 1080i without the VP-30.

Scalers also give alot of flexibility on switching of sources in addition to the scaling capabilities

drhankz

07-13-06, 06:52 PM

Do you have a VP-30 to justify this stance.

I agree the Toshiba HDDVD does a good job on SD DVDs but the Oppo 970 at 480i HDMI to the VP-30 with ABT102 does a super job.

Inputting 480i SD cable to the VP-30 is definitely an improvement over 1080i without the VP-30.

Scalers also give alot of flexibility on switching of sources in addition to the scaling capabilities

DLM 10541:

YES - I have a 4 week old VP30 with the ABT102 Installed.

I also have a Fraoudja VP400A that outputs 1080i as good
as the VP30. But the VP30 has more paramters I can twidle.

I also have a high-end CRT Front Projector with 1080i and 1080p
resolution and it is being projected on a 12 ft screen. Therefore I
can judge PQ well on a 12 ft screen.

bbexperience

07-13-06, 08:07 PM

Don't you get SD broadcasts from Satellite?

There is an OLD saying in the engineering world.

"Garbage In equals Garbage out."

My HD Receiver scales up SD broadcasts as GOOD as the VP30.
Do you have the Dish ViP622 or something else? I've heard that other STBs, from DirectTV anyway, don't give as high quality as the Dish for some reason. More compression or something. The problem with the Dish is that if set to 480i it doesn't differentiate between HD and SD as far as I can tell which is a problem for HD. Also, as I said above, I don't have any idea what the "garbage" SD will look like as I have zero HD experience.

oliverlim

07-13-06, 09:52 PM

I am watching 2 TV series, The Closer and Revelations. For some reason, the format is a widescreen inside a 4:3 format. so basically you have a 1:78 picture inside a 4:3 format so black bars on all 4 sides.

In this format, the input aspect ratio is blanked out and not adjustable. And non of the output options would allow me to get a zoom which does not distord the aspect ratio. Any ideas whats the best way to zoom the picture both horizontally and vertically by the same ratio?

I have also been trying to play with Masking feature. I understand that the VP30 can move a 2.35 picture down to the bottom or top of a 1.78 screen. But both underscan and shift does not seem to be adjustable. Do I need to change any aspect ratio in the input or output size before this feature is enabled?

Oliver

collinp

07-13-06, 10:11 PM

MATT:
My TWO cent worth suggestion is NOT to buy ANY Scaler.

This is reasonably sensible advice.

MATT:
Buy a Toshiba HDA1 HD-DVD - It will up convert SD DVDs
as good as the Scaler and everything else is HD already.

This advice however I have to disagree with. The only reason to buy an HDA1 is because it is the first and currently only player out there that can play HD DVDs. As an HD player its mediocre. As an SD player its downright terrible. First off and not to be understated the HDA1 is SLOW. I mean it's "you have to see it to believe it" slow. It literally takes a minute to turn on and almost another minute to start playing a disc. The menu navigation is also slow and clunky. The deinterlacer is subpar. It's not edge adaptive and as WSR states, it doesn't pass any of the S&M disc's deinterlacing or bad edit tests. It uses the improper color encoding matrix for upscaled SD DVDs, so you will be limited to 8 bit RGB out from the player if you want to get accurate color. You are much better off getting a cheap upconverter for SD DVDs.

- Collin

bbexperience

07-13-06, 10:37 PM

This is reasonably sensible advice.

So why would you say I wouldn't want/need a scaler with this setup? Can you give any more detail on that?

collinp

07-13-06, 10:59 PM

Right now I'm planning on getting two Samsung DLPs, one for gaming (HLS5687), and one for TV/movie watching (HLS6187). I'll also be getting DishNetwork service, probably with their ViP622 STB.

The new HLS series looks quite nice. They seem to have added every feature people wanted except the reports are that they still have trouble doing 1:1 pixel mapping just like the HLR series. This alone might be reason enough not to spend the cash on a scaler, though there are few people on this thread who seem happy with the VP30 and the HLR 1080p sets despite the pixel mapping issues.

Finally, I have a Sony 5-disc DVD changer, not upconverting but I'm pretty sure it has an HDMI port (I currently use the component). And, of course, I'm considering the VP30 w/the 102 daughterboard.

If it's a Sony with HDMI, it's upconverting at least to 1080i and 720p. The first Sony HDMI player the 975 could output 480i via HDMI which is perfect for a scaler, the new models alas cannot.

SO, given the above, my first question is do I really even need a scaler, as it relates to picture quality? Much of what we watch is still in SD, but obviously we'll also be watching as much HD as possible :) . As I understand it, the Dish 622 outputs everything (HD & SD) at a set resolution, and therefore will be doing quite a bit of scaling on it's own.

I known nothing about the Dish receiver, but most set top boxes can toggle through different output resolutions, but that means you need to constantly change resolutions as your programming changes for 480i to 720p to 1080i.

Also, I understand that it's not possible to bypass the scaling on the HLS Samsungs, which are 1080p which the VP30 can't truly output.

The VP30 can output 1080p. The HLR & HLS 1080p Samsungs have a bug where 1:1 pixel mapping can be set in the service menu, but does not stick through power cycles. Some people have complicated remote macros to automatically turn on 1:1 pixel mapping on power up, but this has got to be clunky and error prone.

So what I'm afraid of is ending up with a highly degraded signal by the time it scales through the Dish, then the VP30, then the TV. Does anyone have the Dish 622 with the VP30 or an HLS Samsung with the VP30, or better yet, a combination of both?

I use the VP30 with HLP 720p Samsung. My main sources are an SDI modified DVD player and an HD DirecTivo.

Secondly, the issue of gaming. The Samsungs have a "gaming mode" which I understand works pretty well, and the VP30's daughterboard has gaming mode as well. BUT, do they play well together? I'd love to get an improved picture on my older (from original NES to Xbox) systems as well as the Xbox 360, but definitely not at the cost of lag. Anyone have any experience/insight on this?

The weakness in the Samsung's processing engine has long been the analog stage. Any noise in the analog source causes a lot of swimming pixelization. Analog sources(including older game systems) look much much better on the VP30 than directly connected to the Samsung. The Samsung is a set that you really want to feed a digital signal. Unlike the HLS my HLP does not have a game mode and the lag is unbearable, so I play game on the CRT in the den.

As I said above, I really have no HD experience to compare PQ with except what I've seen at Best Buy and Circuit City. I did look at the 61" version of that TV at both stores and the SD PQ was less than impressive, to say the least, which is why I started even considering a scaler.

The VP30 is a big improvement over the SD processing in the Samsung. The analog SD sources will have less noisy pixelization through the VP30 (no noise reduction, just better A/Ds). SD TV will look a bit sharper than directly connected, particularly if you can feed the VP30 480i via HDMI. SD DVDs are where the VP30 really shines. I run an SDI modified player through the VP30 and I think it looks very close if not better than broadcast/satelite HD.

If it weren't for the pixel mapping issue I would heartily recommend a VP30 / HLS Samsung combo. In fact if it weren't for this singular issue I'd probably order an HLS to replace my HLP and pair it with my VP30.

If you do get the Samsung DLP absolutely factor calibration from someone who knows Samsungs into the cost of the set. These sets have a very sophisticated service mode and can be calibrated very precisely to spec. Out of the box however they're often a complete mess. Reportedly the newer sets are getting better out of the box, but a good calibrator can still do wonders.

Also realize that there is a noticeable video processing delay on these sets. If you intended to use an external amplifier you will want an amp that has an adjustable audio delay or a device like the VP30 to compensate for the video processing time. Presumably this is less of an issue in game mode and it is not an issue if you intend to use the built in speakers.

Okay, that's my long post in response to your long post.

- Collin

davidcrowe

07-13-06, 11:20 PM

DLM 10541:

YES - I have a 4 week old VP30 with the ABT102 Installed.

I also have a Fraoudja VP400A that outputs 1080i as good
as the VP30. But the VP30 has more paramters I can twidle.

I also have a high-end CRT Front Projector with 1080i and 1080p
resolution and it is being projected on a 12 ft screen. Therefore I
can judge PQ well on a 12 ft screen.

thank you,

finally someone else with a large screen speaks.

Dave

SJHT

07-13-06, 11:26 PM

bbexperience

07-14-06, 01:02 AM

collinp

07-14-06, 03:37 AM

Collin

Thanks for the detailed reply. It's nice to hear from someone with at least a remotely similar set. I'm still not 100% sure what I'll end up with, but I'm leaning more toward the VP30, especially if it will give me significant improvement on SD. I am still looking to get some before and after pictures ;) The Dish STB can output different resolutions, but as you mentioned I'd have to manually toggle between them, as far as I know. That's based solely on the wording on their website though, so who knows.

I wasn't aware that the HLS series had the same service menu flaw as the HLRs. I remember reading somewhere in this thread that that was a problem with an HLR. I think I remember it being something to do with overscan in the service menu. Since I'm completely new to this I have no clue what overscan is or what it does, but I think that was the issue. I think it was aaronw that was having the problem. aaronw, did you get this issue resolved or did you just resort to manually adjusting the service menu on power on?

Note that I know from personal experience that the HLRs have the pixel mapping issue. However my knowledge of the HLS models comes from post on this forum, which seem to indicate that they have the same issue, though I haven't seen it with my own eyes and I hold out hope that the issue is actually fixed.

Overscan is more or less the amount of picture that is clipped of the sides of the set. When overscan is set properly on these sets you get 1:1 pixel mapping at 1080p. By default the sets ship with more overscan, which equals more scaling and no pixel mapping. The older models like the HLP could be set to 1:1 pixel mapping in the user menu. The HLR required a service menu setting which doesn't stick across power cycles and rumors are that the HLS is the same.

- Collin

TWD

07-14-06, 08:40 AM

The older models like the HLP could be set to 1:1 pixel mapping in the user menu. The HLR required a service menu setting which doesn't stick across power cycles and rumors are that the HLS is the same.

- Collin

Some of the HLS set don't appear to have this problem. I have read posts by Eliab and UMR that state they were able to do 1:1 mapping. My 5087 has the problem. It doesn't hold. I guess it is based on the firmware level in the set.

Frankly I can't tell the difference in pic quality with the set set for 1:1 mapping or not.

bbexperience

07-14-06, 10:34 AM

Some of the HLS set don't appear to have this problem. I have read posts by Eliab and UMR that state they were able to do 1:1 mapping. My 5087 has the problem. It doesn't hold. I guess it is based on the firmware level in the set.

Frankly I can't tell the difference in pic quality with the set set for 1:1 mapping or not.
TWD

Do you use the VP30 with your set? How do you like the PQ with it?

bbexperience

07-14-06, 10:36 AM

Note that I know from personal experience that the HLRs have the pixel mapping issue. However my knowledge of the HLS models comes from post on this forum, which seem to indicate that they have the same issue, though I haven't seen it with my own eyes and I hold out hope that the issue is actually fixed.

Overscan is more or less the amount of picture that is clipped of the sides of the set. When overscan is set properly on these sets you get 1:1 pixel mapping at 1080p. By default the sets ship with more overscan, which equals more scaling and no pixel mapping. The older models like the HLP could be set to 1:1 pixel mapping in the user menu. The HLR required a service menu setting which doesn't stick across power cycles and rumors are that the HLS is the same.

- Collin
Thanks for the explanation of overscan. Now here's a stupid question :)...Doesn't the VP30 have an "underscan" setting that could offset the set's overscan? Or does it not work like that?

braindew

07-14-06, 11:08 AM

I have been a VP30 user for about three months now (ABT 102 card for about a month). Everything was working fine...then we came back from vacation and now I get the dreaded blue flashing light indicating an HDCP problem. Has anyone encountered this? I saw earlier that someone had this problem and simply re-seated the new board and re-installed the firmware...of course I wouldn't be posting if that worked for me. I have called DVDO and they shrug their shoulders...they say send it in. Here is what I have tried:
1.07 firmware
1.08 firmware
reseating ABT board/re-installing firmware (both 1.07 and 1.08)
swapping out HDMI cables (I have three HDMI inputs)...by the way all analog inputs with HDMI out still works fine
"Hard reset"
Flipping HDCP setting for inputs and out along with color settings every possible combination

I have the VP30 feeding a Optoma HD72 projector...and like I said it has been awesome up until this major shut-down (and I didn't do anything different)
I also have a Battery backup/surge suppressor...Trip-lite I believe, and there was a power failure sometime when we were gone (the oven shows PF)...but we have had a few of those in the last few months with no problems also.

I have no qualms about sending it to DVDO...but apparently they have no units that I can "hot swap" with at the moment (all out of stock)...so I was hoping for that magic "Oh, I did this and it fixed it" moment.

c722

07-14-06, 11:37 AM

I understand that the VP30 can move a 2.35 picture down to the bottom or top of a 1.78 screen. But both underscan and shift does not seem to be adjustable. Do I need to change any aspect ratio in the input or output size before this feature is enabled?

For this one: set input screen AR 16:9, input active AR 16:9, set ouput screen 2.35, output display 16:9. You will then have the option to shift up/down under output aspects. Basically you have the ability to "shift" only when your output screen AR>output display AR. (If the other way round it will be for the anamorph lens.)

For 1.78 letter box within 4:3: you will need to set input AR 4:3, active AR 16:9. (Note this is independent of the output ARs)

For this sort of aspect ratio "arrangements", you will never touch underscan/zoom/etc. It's strictly playing of the 4 AR numbers. I think this is very different from Lumagen

byancey

07-14-06, 11:53 AM

Tolstoi

07-14-06, 12:54 PM

Do you have a VP-30 to justify this stance.

I agree the Toshiba HDDVD does a good job on SD DVDs but the Oppo 970 at 480i HDMI to the VP-30 with ABT102 does a super job.

Inputting 480i SD cable to the VP-30 is definitely an improvement over 1080i without the VP-30.

Scalers also give alot of flexibility on switching of sources in addition to the scaling capabilities

I agree with and decided to get the best out of the two formats. Therefore, I have the Toshiba for HD-DVD and for SD-DVD I am using a combo Oppo970HD with VP30/ABT102 scaler.

collinp

07-14-06, 02:48 PM

Thanks for the explanation of overscan. Now here's a stupid question :)...Doesn't the VP30 have an "underscan" setting that could offset the set's overscan? Or does it not work like that?

That would result in the same amount of picture on the screen, which is part of what you're looking for. The other part is that you want 1 pixel in the 1080p source to control 1 and only 1 pixel on the display. The only way to control how a 1080p signal from a source is mapped onto raw pixels is in the set. With the default settings on the HLS models the source has a different overscan than the overscan physically designed into the projector. This means that 1 pixel in the source actually controls something like 1.002 pixels on the screen, so some scaling is applied by the set. The resulting image on the is not quite sharp/clean as it could be because its been scaled once by the VP30 and unnecessarily a 2nd time by the set.

- Collin

bbexperience

07-14-06, 04:18 PM

Thanks Collin, that clears things up a bit. I didn't suspect it was as easy as that. :D

I learned some more about the Dish ViP622 receiver. I found out that it has multiple video outs, 4 to be exact: 1 composite, 1 S-Video, 1 Component, 1 HDMI. So, there's multiple options.

1.) If the component or HDMI is connected, but not the S-video or composite, it will scale SD content to a (I think) user selected resolution of either 720p or 1080i, but will send HD content in whatever resolution it is broadcast in.

2.) If the component or HDMI is connect AND the S-video or composite is connected it will output the HD signal over the the component/HDMI and the SD signal over the s-video or composite.

3.) If the composite or s-video is connected but not the component or HDMI, it will scale everything to SD resolution, which I assume is 480i.

Obviously for my application Option 3 would be out of the question. Why would you want to scale HD content down to SD resolution anyway? I like Option 2, but doesn't s-video/composite output a seriously degraded signal, even for SD as opposed to component/HDMI?

Now to relate this to the VP30- would I get a better SD signal with Option 1 and having the signal be scaled twice or Option 2 and outputting over s-video? This is all assuming that the overscan setting will stick with the set that I want.

Another long post. I'm at work and it's very......slow.....:)

DirectViewer

07-14-06, 06:02 PM

...the Oppo 970 at 480i HDMI to the VP-30 with ABT102 does a super job.

That sounded appealing so I went out to Oppo Digital yesterday and bought a 970. It looks good through the component connection to the VP30/ABT102, but I can't get the HDMI connection to work properly.

The VP30 info message says it is receiving 480i over HDMI, but the word HDCP sometimes appears next to "HDMI", whether or not I set HDCP ON in the HDMI Config menu. The screen shows the VP30 curtain closing, then sometimes opening to reveal a screenful of colored noise. Occasionally, such as when changing resolution, it shows a proper static image (such as a DVD title page).
(FWIW, the VP30 output is 720p at 60Hz, the native res of the PJ.)

When I use the analog output of the VP30 to connect to a computer LCD monitor (at 1024x768), the results are as for the VP30 digital output (except that "HDCP" never appears in the INFO message).

Any idea of what I -- or the Oppo or VP30 -- are doing wrong?

keenan

07-14-06, 06:56 PM

TWD

07-14-06, 09:41 PM

TWD

Do you use the VP30 with your set? How do you like the PQ with it?

The picture is excellent with it or without it on HD sources. On SD over Directv maybe it is a little better. It does a great job upconverting my DVD player from 480i to 1080p.

bbexperience

07-14-06, 11:10 PM

...On SD over Directv maybe it is a little better...

$2,000 better? :)

Do you have any issues with audio lag when you don't use it? My current receiver doesn't have an audio delay feature, so that might be another reason to go this route if the PQ increase is good as well.

Josh@dvdo

07-14-06, 11:23 PM

Beta version 1.09 is now available here: http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

This pre-release version of our software contains the following new features:

Added Output Gamma Correction
The Output Gamma can be adjusted to any value between 0.6 and 2.5. The default setting on this parameter is 1.0, typically referred to as ‘Linear’.

Added 8 more Test Patterns

Full Field Black
Full Field White
Full Field Red
Full Field Blue
Full Field Green
Full Field Cyan
Full Field Magenta
Full Field Yellow

This software version also addresses and corrects the following bugs:

In case of invalid input signal the SPDIF transmitter wasn't set to mute mode.

720i output format could be addressed when switching between user modified display profiles.

Recalling ‘Test Patterns’ causes ‘Display Profile’ to go to ‘User’

SXGA now is working on the RGBHV/Component input

Gary Murrell

07-15-06, 12:36 AM

holy friggin **** :eek: :eek:

Gamma!!

Josh, you guys need to prepare for some orders from CRT Projector users ;)

-Gary

derekjsmith

07-15-06, 01:43 AM

Josh and the others at DVDO, thank you for my request of adding the full field BWRBGCMY cal patterns. I will add these to the DVDO VP series automation support in CalMAN this weekend. Excellent supports guys, again thanks :)

c722

07-15-06, 01:47 AM

While we're on the topic of underscan, how much can the underscan function on the VP-30 actually shrink the image? How about 33% or so?

I have a 16:9 screen with an adjustable top/bottom mask for Scope material. When the mask is in the scope setting, I want the ability to temporarily zoom-out 16:9 and 4:3 images (maintaining their aspect ratio) such that they fit within the top and bottom scope masks (basically, bars on all 4 sides, with the top and bottom bars being further "hidden" by my physical masking).

If the overscan function won't do this, can the VP-30 be configured to do this using any other settings? I recently purchased a Lumagen HDP, but have been unable to figure out how to get it to do this specific zoom-out function. Is this possible on the VP-30?

Thanks.

--
Bryce

Bryce, the VP30 does better than that ! :) When u configure your output as 2.35 (i.e. "scope"), for incoming 4:3, 16:9 material, it will automatically place the image within your scope (and of course maitaining the OAR). It's kind of poor man's CH setup. I used that all the time. There is no "underscan"/"zooming" involved. You just need to press a button in the remote. Actually if the VP30 knows the incoming is a 4:3/16:9 material, it will do it automatically without u even doing anything. This is a function of the ARs. Very nice feature of Vp30.

Btw I saw ur other thread on this topic. I'm surprised Lumagen can't do this. I thought it would just be more troublesome. For the IScan, it's extremely easy.

JaniH

07-15-06, 02:13 AM

I'm having big problems with V1.09. Quite often when switching inputs or inputting other resolution from same source crashes the VP30, i.e. it comes totally unresponsive. After I unplug and plug it back on, I've lost all display profile settings. :mad:

Josh@dvdo

07-15-06, 02:38 AM

I'm having big problems with V1.09. Quite often when switching inputs

Between with sources and using which connections on the VP30?

or inputting other resolution from same source crashes the VP30

Using which sources and which connections?

, i.e. it comes totally unresponsive.

Are you able to display the info screen? Are there any error codes on the front panel?

How many display profiles are you currentlu using? How many parameters do you change in the 'Output Setup' menu for each display profile?

Have you reported this issue to beta@dvdo.com?

JaniH

07-15-06, 03:41 AM

Between with sources and using which connections on the VP30?I have currently only my PC (HDMI1) and dvd player (SDI) connected to VP30. Swithing to other resolution I meant outputting PAL and NTSC from dvd player.

Are you able to display the info screen? Are there any error codes on the front panel?No, the scaler doesn't respond to any remote or front panel buttons. Blue led stays lid, no error codes.

How many display profiles are you currentlu using? How many parameters do you change in the 'Output Setup' menu for each display profile?I'm using three. I have to change output to analog, adjust front and back porches to both v and h signals, change sync type, change color space to RGB, change framerate with some profiles, change border level; so pretty much everything.

Have you reported this issue to beta@dvdo.com?I'll do it later today.

I'll have to thank DVDO for addressing both the bugs I reported with 1.08, if only I could get the 1.09 working.

collinp

07-15-06, 04:06 AM

$2,000 better? :)

Do you have any issues with audio lag when you don't use it? My current receiver doesn't have an audio delay feature, so that might be another reason to go this route if the PQ increase is good as well.

At 720p (native res) my the video on my HLP is between 39 milliseconds behind the audio. When feeding the set interlaced content the delay is considerably longer presumably due to the deinterlacing stage. And when "Movie Mode" deinterlacing (3-2 pulldown detection) is enabled the video lag is quite long. At native res the delay is just a bit over a frame which isn't horrible, but on interlaced material its pretty noticeable. Of course HD feeds are sometimes ridiculously out of sync at the source, so you might want a delay feature just to handle that.

- Collin

Gary Murrell

07-15-06, 09:24 AM

Josh I am having some major trouble with this latest beta

whenever you set the gamma correction to anything higher than 1.40 and you have underscan correction going, the VP30 output starts to scramble and get all screwy looking

it's not a frequency issue as a few of my displays stayed locked on the 1920x1080i output

if I turn underscan to off, I can go higher with the gamma without the scrambled mess

1920x1080i
locked at 60hz
BNC/Analog
underscan set to 32

-Gary

danielo

07-15-06, 11:30 AM

Hai,

i can confirm lockups with 1.09 happend when i saved display profiles. The moment you hit 'yes' the gui interface stays active and locks up. The video keeps working but gui is locked. Powercycle is needed and the all the profile memories are gone. Had it happen to me 2 times, 3e time it worked not sure why.

Edit: also crashes on selecting profiles and zaps all its memories. moving back to 1.0.8.

Daniel.

aaronwt

07-15-06, 12:27 PM

I just loaded 1.09 and now one of my HDMI ports isn't working or at least the device isn't recognized and I also can't get a picture through the SVideo and composite inputs. There is a signal there becasue I get a picture if I connect it to the TV but the VP30 says it isn't receiving a signal. I'm going to reload v1.08 and see if it corrects it.

bbexperience

07-15-06, 12:43 PM

At 720p (native res) my the video on my HLP is between 39 milliseconds behind the audio. When feeding the set interlaced content the delay is considerably longer presumably due to the deinterlacing stage. And when "Movie Mode" deinterlacing (3-2 pulldown detection) is enabled the video lag is quite long. At native res the delay is just a bit over a frame which isn't horrible, but on interlaced material its pretty noticeable. Of course HD feeds are sometimes ridiculously out of sync at the source, so you might want a delay feature just to handle that.

- Collin

In your setup, does the VP30 accurately detect and correct the audio lag issues or do you have to add some extra delay manually?

aaronwt

07-15-06, 12:59 PM

Ok this is weird. I reloaded v1.08 and I still don't get any video from Svideo 1 &2 and composite 1&2. The HDMI from my Sony 975 also doesn't get a picture on the VP30. I connected it to the TV HDMI and got a picture and then I connected an HDTiVo to that VP30 HDMI input and it worked. For some reason now it won't work with HDMI with the Sony DVD player and those video inputs won't work.
Anyone have some ideas of how to proceed? i assume a reset wouldn't work since it get reset with the firmware update and that has no effect. But what would cause this. The problem didn't occur until the v1.09 update but the problem is still there after going back to v1.08

aaronwt

07-15-06, 01:52 PM

Ok I disconnected everything and removed the VP30 and checked the svideo and composite inputs. They worked when I did that so I reconnected everything and it's fine now. I'll reinstall v1.09 later this evening. I have no idea what the problem was but it's working now. I'm hoping to get my TV recalibarted soon so that would have been a major problem if my VP30 wasn't working correctly. Hopefully the problem doesn't occur again.

oink

07-16-06, 12:57 AM

According to DVDO website, 1.08 is no longer listed.
1.09 beta and 1.07 final is the most recent.

aaronwt

07-16-06, 01:52 AM

I reinstalled v1.09 without any problems and watched several hours of programs on several devices without any glitches. I'm getting multichannel audio and video over HDMI with my Sony 975 and both my HDTiVos and the video over HDMI from my A1 is working great also as well as svideo from my DTiVo.

oferlaor

07-16-06, 02:24 AM

aaronwt,

did you have audio dropouts before this version?

derekjsmith

07-16-06, 02:36 AM

CJayB

07-16-06, 03:07 AM

Unfortunately with 1.09 beta I have had a few very short audio dropouts. I have had them since the release back in Dec. But each firmware release they get better so DVDO is moving in the right direction.

I'm finding the same thing, with only 1 dropout so far, but it lasted slightly longer than any of the dropouts I had from 1.07. With 1.09 beta (this is my third firmware, going from 1.00 to 1.07 to 1.09) I was watching the 5th episode of The 4400 season 2 before I got the dropout. I was using my RP91 with SDI when it happened. Despite the dropout, I'm really liking the new firmware. Gamma control is quite useful on my CRT rear projector.

oliverlim

07-16-06, 12:57 PM

For this one: set input screen AR 16:9, input active AR 16:9, set ouput screen 2.35, output display 16:9. You will then have the option to shift up/down under output aspects. Basically you have the ability to "shift" only when your output screen AR>output display AR. (If the other way round it will be for the anamorph lens.)

For 1.78 letter box within 4:3: you will need to set input AR 4:3, active AR 16:9. (Note this is independent of the output ARs)

For this sort of aspect ratio "arrangements", you will never touch underscan/zoom/etc. It's strictly playing of the 4 AR numbers. I think this is very different from Lumagen

Ah thanks. Very different. This weird format is not normally seen. On the Lumagen I would just have to press the up button a few times as each time would zoom the picture 5% and I guess 6 press would will a 16:9 screen.

For the shifting, The VP30 way is defintely better and easier then the Lumagen. But then again you have only have to do it once as thats what memories are for :p

Oliver

hmuller

07-17-06, 04:51 AM

danielo

07-17-06, 05:02 AM

Hi,

When 1.07 was released a few people reported that there were problems with PAL material not being shown properly. That coupled with the remote and audio dropout bugs still being present made me decide to skip it. However it seems that 1.09 may have improved the audio dropout bug a little so I am keen to try it if the PAL bug has been squashed. Has anyone tested 1.09 to see if this was corrected??

1.07 was good for PAL, The problem was reported for 1.08 (beta).

There where at that time several who reported it but after alot of research we as a group
have sofar not nailed it. Most feel at this stage it was bad source material. I for one am still not sure if this is the case but until we have a good test case its hard to catch or even proof.

I did some testing between 1.09 and 1.07 and can't find any differences over multiple inputs (sdi, hdmi, rgbs, component) and outputs (analog and hdmi). I do have the profiles 'crash' problem that forced me back to 1.07 again. Hope they fix that soon since 1.09 seems ok on the new features.

Daniel.

hifichip76

07-17-06, 12:20 PM

I got tired of seeing too many artifacts with the ABT 102, so I actually removed it went back to firmware 1.05 for now. I'm waiting for a firmware release that's without so many glitches. Judging by the recent posts, there's a long way to go.

Even with 1.05, there are glitches, of couse. The other night, with all HDMI inouts, the "curtain" kept closing, leaving a black screen. This happened as soon as I switched to the source. I adjusted the HDCP switches, which did nothing. I turned the power on and off. In the end, I needed to disconnect the hdmi cable going from the vp30 to my TV for a fewe seconds and then reconnect it. Then it was fine!

The whole HDCP thing is nothing but trouble.

flint350

07-17-06, 01:41 PM

For those of you using a VP30 and the new Toshiba HD-DVD (or variant), do you find it better to simply output 720p from the DVD player since de-interlacing 1080i is not a strong suit for the VP30? Just curious. I'm considering HD-DVD and wonder how to best implement it with a VP30 which is known not to do well (yet) with HD sources for de-interlacing. I'm using a 720p front proj to a large CH screen and 1080p down rezzed doesn't seem like the way to go either.

Gary Murrell

07-17-06, 01:55 PM

720p from the Toshiba is a busted joke, it is 1080i downconverted to 480p and then upconverted to 720p

the answer is no

-Gary

keenan

07-17-06, 01:59 PM

Yup, known problem, don't even think about using 720p out from the HD-A1.

derekjsmith

07-17-06, 02:16 PM

If you read Kris Deering's review over on Secrets he had a similar setup for testing. His recommendation is let the HD-A1 be at 1080i into the VP30 and let the VP30 scale to 720p.

Yes the VP30 only has simple 1080i processing but the video from the HD-A1 was 1080p 24hz internal then converted to 1080i 60hz over HDMI. So it's very simple work to get it back to 1080p 24hz

BTW, I have the same setup HD-A1 into the VP30 to a H79 at 720p.

flint350

07-17-06, 03:58 PM

Thanks guys. I thought I read somewhere about the multi-conversion with downsampling in the HDA1! Appreciate the input.

By the way, dereksmith: what's your verdict on PQ done that way (HDA1@1080i===>VP30===>720p Proj)?? I'm using a Sim2 C3X Lite in a 127" wide CH setup. Thanks again to all.

collinp

07-17-06, 04:17 PM

In your setup, does the VP30 accurately detect and correct the audio lag issues or do you have to add some extra delay manually?

The VP30 automatically compensates for its own video processing delay even as it dynamically changes deinterlacing modes and whatnot. I then add an additional 39ms for the Samsung DLP processing time. If the problem is at the source there is nothing that can be done automatically, though you can always go to the audio delay control on the VP30 and manually compensate for source sync issues.

- Collin

derekjsmith

07-17-06, 05:25 PM

By the way, dereksmith: what's your verdict on PQ done that way (HDA1@1080i===>VP30===>720p Proj)?? I'm using a Sim2 C3X Lite in a 127" wide CH setup. Thanks again to all.

I have not had a chance to spend any quality time with the HD-A1 I just got it last Friday. I do however trust in what Kris says, I've been to his house a while back for a DVD player review and have seen how he does all of his testing.

jschefdog

07-17-06, 09:42 PM

Go from the A1 to the receiver then to the VP30. This is how I had my setup with a Denon 2807 and now with a 3806. The sound is rock solid this way. The same goes for the Samsung BD player. Although I've only watched one movie since I got it today but that sound is solid as well by going to the receiver first.
Trying to catch up after 2 weeks vacation. Thanks for the tip. I thought about this but haven't tried it. There are a couple of problems with doing it this way. My receiver has two HDMI inputs and one output, but I have 3 HDMI sources. The other is that you lose the individual HDMI input adjustments available on the VP30 since all HDMI sources will go from the receiver to a single HDMI input on the VP30. One of the reasons I bought the VP30 was for the 4 HDMI inputs so I wouldn't have to keep swapping cables.

jschefdog

07-17-06, 10:04 PM

If I connect a Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player to the VP30 using HDMI and configure the Toshiba to output 5.1 channel PCM, will the VP30 support this setup and pass the multi-channel PCM signal through to the HDMI output?
I haven't had any luck passing 5.1 channel PCM through the VP30 to my Yamaha HTR-5990 receiver. The receiver detects and plays 5.1 channel PCM coming from the VP30, but there is a continuous high pitched tone overlaid on the audio which is much louder than the soundtrack. I have been following this thread from the beginning but haven't seen any report of someone successfully passing 5.1 channel PCM through the VP30 to a receiver.

bbexperience

07-17-06, 10:48 PM

I'm back on the overscan kick again. :rolleyes: Is having overscan disabled an absolute necessity to successfully get a PQ improvement out of the VP30? I went and looked at a Samsung 6187 at ABC Warehouse tonight and was actually quite impressed with the SD picture quality. I think with a VP30 in the mix I could get it to the point that I'm quite happy with it. However that set has known issues with the overscan setting not being kept through a power down, and hence the question.

vfrjim

07-17-06, 10:58 PM

Did a upgrade to 1.09 software and it started a little rough. At first, my Coax digital input 3 did not work and the stereo input did not work but then I decided to try out to see if you fixed my HDCP handshaking problem with my Sony DHG-HDD250 which seems to be progressing. It sync up and shook hands so that I did not get a "closing of the curtains" and the audio passed through HDMI, BUT it loses it's handshake every once in a while for a few seconds, closes the curtains, then handshakes and opens the curtains. This only lasts a few seconds, but it is there. Also, now that I have the HDMI working via the Sony HDD250(DVR), there is a glitch that is definitely not there if I bypass the VP30 and connect the DVR directly to my projector. The glitch is a little "video shake" that looks like a "sync" issue, it is not there if connected via component video or directly connected to the projector. This is not happening on all channels though, only certain HD channels. If you need any more info from me, just ask since I am on vacation for the next 9 days(home).

Jim

mchaney

07-17-06, 11:22 PM

I have sent DVDO three emails on this subject to beta@dvdo.com in the last month that have gone unanswered and one PM here on the forum to Josh (which has still not been opened in over a month). I was disappointed to say the least when I saw no acknowledgement at all regarding the zoom bugs in 1.09 beta. I'm hoping that DVDO will acknowledge and fix these problems as I see the zoom as one of the basic features of the unit that is not working properly. Here's the email that I sent this evening:

I see that with the release of 1.09 beta, you have still done nothing about the numerous zoom bugs on the VP30. Further to my prior messages where I detailed the problem, I have discovered that the zoom function under the input aspect ratio is inconsistent depending on the input signal resolution. At 480p for example, it takes a zoom of about 62/62 in the H/V to get rid of the 2.35:1 bars on a 16:9 set without stretch distortion. Seems reasonable, but at 720p, it takes 92/92 and it's even more problematic at 1080i input which requires about 62/110 and of course 100 is the highest number allowed. 1080i has severe problems with the zoom because not only is the zoom percentage inconsistent for different input signal resolutions, at 1080i, the zoom isn't even consistent between the horizontal and vertical, forcing you to have to enter a horizontal zoom much higher than the vertical to avoid distortion and since the zoom "pegs" at 100, you can't even get it right when eliminating 2.35:1 bars.

This really needs to be fixed. I bought the VP30 mostly to eliminate the 2.35:1 bars on my 16:9 plasma to prevent burn-in. Of course, I prefer to cut off a little on the left/right when eliminating the top/bottom black bars to avoid vertical stretch (distortion), but when running at 1080i input, it isn't possible to set the H/V zoom as you should be able to for this purpose. The only way to do it is to fool with the overscan which is far from ideal since: (1) it cannot be saved/recalled and (2) you shouldn't have to change overscan to get zoom correct.

Please fix these bugs in your next release. It is disappointing that for $2,000 the machine cannot do something as simple (and as primary) as a percentage H/V zoom and do it correctly regardless of the input resolution.

Regards,
Mike

aaronwt

07-18-06, 01:08 AM

I thought the overscan/underscan was saved for the individual profiles?

Gary Murrell

07-18-06, 01:20 AM

oink

07-18-06, 01:53 AM

Joerod likes to zoom in on Playboy T&A :D :p

Say it ain't so, Joe...

mchaney

07-18-06, 08:44 AM

I thought the overscan/underscan was saved for the individual profiles?

No unfortunately not, but that's still a work-around. It'd be much smoother if the zoom was just fixed so it worked by a real (and consistent) percentage.

Mike

mchaney

07-18-06, 08:50 AM

Mike whats wrong with a combo of overscan and then zooming?

you could take the overscan out to 50% and have the image horribly zoomed and still have the zoom controls on 0 with plenty to play with

I don't think there is anything the VP30 can't do zoom/aspect wise and we are talking things like extreme zooming, like when Joerod likes to zoom in on Playboy T&A :D :p

-Gary

:eek:

Yes, it is possible to overscan and then follow-up with zoom but this is very clumsy because overscan isn't saved as part of either a preset or a profile so there is no way to recall it. As a result, you'd have to manully crank up the overscan to a value you remember and then select an input AR preset on top of that. The only real solution here is to fix the zoom so that it actually works in consistent percentages of image width/height like it is supposed to. That way, you can set preset 2 for example to a 62/62 zoom and that preset would work for any 16:9 signal with 2.35:1 bars whether the input is 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Right now you can't do that because the zoom values get all screwed up based on what input resolution is coming in, with 1080i being the worst because the H and V zooms don't even match. For me, this is a very important bug to fix. Some movies are 1.85:1 and fill the screen and other selected movies I'll want to watch in OAR with the bars. Still others (less "important" titles) I'll want to remove the bars. The best (and only "right") way to do this is to have zooms that are consistent percentages so that you can just scroll to presets in the AR preset list. They have to zoom by a consistent percentage though because different input devices end up sending different signals at different times (480p, 720p, and 1080i being the important ones for me). I do wish DVDO would at least acknowledge this bug as I've been reporting it over several communication lines to DVDO for over a month and they've never even acknowledged receipt of my bug reports.

Mike

DirectViewer

07-18-06, 07:24 PM

:eek:

Yes, it is possible to overscan and then follow-up with zoom but this is very clumsy because overscan isn't saved as part of either a preset or a profile so there is no way to recall it. As a result, you'd have to manully crank up the overscan to a value you remember and then select an input AR preset on top of that. The only real solution here is to fix the zoom so that it actually works in consistent percentages of image width/height like it is supposed to. That way, you can set preset 2 for example to a 62/62 zoom and that preset would work for any 16:9 signal with 2.35:1 bars whether the input is 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Right now you can't do that because the zoom values get all screwed up based on what input resolution is coming in, with 1080i being the worst because the H and V zooms don't even match. For me, this is a very important bug to fix. Some movies are 1.85:1 and fill the screen and other selected movies I'll want to watch in OAR with the bars. Still others (less "important" titles) I'll want to remove the bars. The best (and only "right") way to do this is to have zooms that are consistent percentages so that you can just scroll to presets in the AR preset list. They have to zoom by a consistent percentage though because different input devices end up sending different signals at different times (480p, 720p, and 1080i being the important ones for me). I do wish DVDO would at least acknowledge this bug as I've been reporting it over several communication lines to DVDO for over a month and they've never even acknowledged receipt of my bug reports.

Mike

I'd like to see this problem solved as well. And it would also be helpful if, like some graphics programs, the VP30 offered a horizontal zoom menu value of "maintain the aspect ratio". Then you could specify both dimensions of zoom with a single (vertical) value.

DirectViewer

07-18-06, 08:38 PM

talman

07-18-06, 08:41 PM

I don't understand the upscaling restrictions of the VP30.

I've got the HDMI output set to 720p with HDCP on for my projector, and the RGBHV output set to 1280x1024 for my LCD computer monitor.

If I attach an Oppo 970 DVD player to a VP30 HDMI input, I can't see its menus (or anything else) through the RGBHV output. I can understand why no DVD content (I think :confused: ) but why no menus?

If I attach the Oppo to a component input of the VP30, I can see both DVD content and menus.

The Oppo is SD, BTW.

Thanks to anyone who helps clarify this.

HDCP is your answer. You cannot send out analog video (RGBHV) from the VP30 when the HDMI port is the input source because of HDCP. Yes it's 480i but from what I understand alot of manufacturers just "attach" HDCP to everything going out via HDMI. It would work if the HDMI "chain" continued from the VP30 to your projector.

Edit: This is one of the issues that I'm struggling with currently as in order to get closest to the native resolution of my display, I have to use RGBHV/VGA. In my research I believe there are devices out there that will "strip" HDCP and allow a HDMI/DVI to VGA connection but I'm not positive.

RolfHult

07-18-06, 08:56 PM

Will DVDO ever release an new FW that enables an 2.35:1 screen (CH)?
Latest release are waaay back (Dec 2004). :(

The only differences HD+ and HD are mainly HDCP support?

flyingvee

07-18-06, 09:22 PM

In my research I believe there are devices out there that will "strip" HDCP and allow a HDMI/DVI to VGA connection but I'm not positive.

I have one of those "devices" - but I need to borrow an HD-1A long enough to find out if it works in that case. It does work with my upconverting dvd players, but who knows - wouldn't want to say, until I've tried it myself.

TWD

07-18-06, 09:39 PM

I am at beta 1.08. When I feed my VP Dolby Digital from my D* HD DVR it passes it. My receiver show it as DD. However, if you look at the VP info screen, it lists the audio source as unknown.

I did have one instance this afternoon where it would not pass DD. The VP was out putting a low volume motor boating sound. Not sure how I corrected it, but was messing with the audio inputs and some power cycling.

DirectViewer

07-18-06, 10:09 PM

HDCP is your answer. You cannot send out analog video (RGBHV) from the VP30 when the HDMI port is the input source because of HDCP. Yes it's 480i but from what I understand alot of manufacturers just "attach" HDCP to everything going out via HDMI. It would work if the HDMI "chain" continued from the VP30 to your projector.

Edit: This is one of the issues that I'm struggling with currently as in order to get closest to the native resolution of my display, I have to use RGBHV/VGA. In my research I believe there are devices out there that will "strip" HDCP and allow a HDMI/DVI to VGA connection but I'm not positive.

Thanks for the explanation, Talman.

This is really bizarre, as the VP30 is blocking the Oppo OSD -- and there isn't even a disc loaded in the machine! Could ABT legally change the VP30 so that it only blocked the analog output for HDCP-protected content?

escon

07-18-06, 10:19 PM

Thanks for the explanation, Talman.

This is really bizarre, as the VP30 is blocking the Oppo OSD -- and there isn't even a disc loaded in the machine! Could ABT legally change the VP30 so that it only blocked the analog output for HDCP-protected content?
The issue is with the OPPO, or rather the Intel HDMI chipset that they use. I believe it could be programmed so that 480i/576i would not have HDCP on it, but the easy way out is just to leave it ON all the time. Most of the HDMI HD tuners we have here in Australia have the HDCP signal disabled even for 720p/1080i broadcasts, so it's possible to program it (the Intel HDMI chipset) to be disabled for all output resolutions. The same comments apply to the VP30 HDMI outputs.

collinp

07-18-06, 10:36 PM

Thanks for the explanation, Talman.

This is really bizarre, as the VP30 is blocking the Oppo OSD -- and there isn't even a disc loaded in the machine! Could ABT legally change the VP30 so that it only blocked the analog output for HDCP-protected content?

That is exactly what the VP30 does. If the digital in is not HDCP protected the VP30 sends it out the analog port. The digital out of your DVD player uses HDCP. It's not a per-disc thing. Upscaled playback of all discs must be HDCP encrypted. Toggling HDCP when no disc is in the player is possibly prohibited by the DVD consortium, going to cause HDCP handshaking issues and probably seen by Oppo as having little value relative to the engineering effort involved.

- Collin

Phalanx

07-18-06, 11:02 PM

hmuller

07-19-06, 05:37 AM

Loaded v1.09 yesterday. The new firmware does provide significant improvements over audio related issues I had previously.

The toslink audio output issue I had with my Pio AX5Ai (or 56TXi) seemed resolved. Watched 2 full-length DVD movies with no audio-dropout so far.

I read the release notes of 1.08 and 1.09 and apart from mentioning the "motorboating" and "SPDIF invalid input mute mode" there was nothing that mentioned anything about any specific fixes for the audio dropouts. Are these related to the drop out bug?

If DVDO have been trying to fix the bug could they please say so in their release notes so those who are affected by it know if we need to test (and maybe get our hopes up.. :) )

vfrjim

07-19-06, 08:03 AM

DVDO, definitely a problem with audio with 1.09 beta. Using Component 2, using either Coax 3 digital or analog stereo, I randomly get NO audio at all. Definitely an issue.

Jim

mchaney

07-19-06, 08:33 AM

I'd like to see this problem solved as well. And it would also be helpful if, like some graphics programs, the VP30 offered a horizontal zoom menu value of "maintain the aspect ratio". Then you could specify both dimensions of zoom with a single (vertical) value.

That would be ideal, but I didn't want to ask for much more than the numerous zoom bugs being fixed first. So far, I haven't even been able to get DVDO to acknowledge that these zoom bugs exist and get a response as to if they are working on them and when we can expect a fix.

Mike

aaronwt

07-19-06, 08:39 AM

aaronwt,

did you have audio dropouts before this version?
No I didn't have any audio dropouts before and I still don't(although I did lose audio over HDMI from one of my HDTiVos that came back after the firmware upgrade but I think that had something to do with the HDTiVo since I had replaced the hard drives).
Except for my problem with the initial install of v1.09 everything has been working fine since Saturday evening. All audio and video inputs are working great after 24+ hours of viewing from various sources. I'll check it out again tonight.

vfrjim

07-19-06, 09:11 AM

Josh Z

07-19-06, 09:59 AM

Will DVDO ever release an new FW that enables an 2.35:1 screen (CH)?

The VP30 has supported 2.35:1 CH since its first firmware.

danielo

07-19-06, 12:53 PM

Hai,

Are only PAL users having the 'lockup' problems with multiple output formats ? Im kind of suprised only 2 of us reported it sofar i was expecting all of us to have it. Since it means a hardreset each time seems like a shopstopper to me.

Let me be clear, when using output profiles (selecting and saving them) if you switch (analog to hdmi for example) it locks the vp30 and you need to power cycle and then all the display settings are gone.

If only us 2 have it ill research some more and provide more info to dvdo but im mostly suprised we seem to be alone :)

Daniel.

danielo

07-19-06, 12:57 PM

The VP30 has supported 2.35:1 CH since its first firmware.

I think he posted in the vp30 thread by mistake, he seems to have a IscanHD. That was last updated in dec 2004. The HD+ got the 2.35 and the image shift problem somewhere in the first months of 2005 they also promised a update for the HD but that never made it. The vp30/vp20 was based on the 2.91 version of the HD+.

Hope this helps,

Daniel.

Josh@dvdo

07-19-06, 01:08 PM

danielo

07-19-06, 01:16 PM

We now have Beta version 1.09a available: http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

The major change is that we have addressed this specific issue of 'Display Profiles' causing the unit to lock up.

Ok.. ill test it in a few hours and report back. thanks this was a showstopper so nice that its been fixed so fast. Its not that i think the audio problems are not important but its clearly a long battle you guys are fighting on that front.

EDIT: bug is solved, made 4 profiles and tested alot its gone. I did track and find a new bug related to image shift (that some reported) i can now reproduce it and have a workaround ill mail it to beta@ next (and ill post my workaround).

Daniel.

JaniH

07-19-06, 02:29 PM

Thanks Josh. This one seems to be stable. I'll have to do some testing with the 1080i switching, but things are starting to look pretty good!

mchaney

07-19-06, 02:55 PM

We now have Beta version 1.09a available: http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

The major change is that we have addressed this specific issue of 'Display Profiles' causing the unit to lock up.

Josh, could you PLEASE at least acknowledge the zoom bugs I've posted a half dozen times in this thread and via email to beta@DVDO.com? If you continue to completely ignore me, I have no idea whether you know about them or not so I don't know when to stop posting about them. As long as I know you are aware of them and I hear that you intend to fix the numerous zoom bugs, I'll let it be. You seem to be quite selective in what you reply to and I haven't heard a peep from you here, no one has returned my emails, and you never even opened the PM I sent you here on the forum. Please, please, please at least acknowledge that you are aware of the zoom bugs posted a few posts above. This is a major issue for me and others have expressed the need for the zoom bugs to be fixed as well. I've been posting here, emailing, and sending you PM's on this for more than a month now with no response, not even a "we're working on it"!

I would also like to suggest that if you are going to be present here at times, don't just open the door and talk to the person who happens to be standing closest to the door. You need to read this thread because there are quite a few questions/requests that have gone unanswered and you seem to only respond to a message or two that happens to be on the last page in the thread.

Not a very happy customer at the moment, but I feel I've been as patient as I can be! I'm not even complaining about the fact that I haven't gotten the bugs fixed yet: I understand these bugs have to be prioritized. The ultimate for me would be a bug fix, but my complaint stems from the fact that I (and several others here) are being completely ignored by DVDO.

Mike

flint350

07-19-06, 05:02 PM

mchaney

07-19-06, 06:43 PM

Damn, Mike - looks like you missed him AGAIN, by about 1 1/2 hours. He does seem to only notice (or at least only reply to) questions immediately above his entry point. I imagine there's lots else to do in his life than sit here, but if he is going to visit and address issues, your solution is a sound one. Condolences (because that's all I can offer, along with some empathy).
Just got a PM from Josh. He says they are working on it but want to talk to me about my setup in case the setup has something to do with it. Don't see how it could but I gave my phone numbers and we'll see what transpires. I know Josh must stay busy but I also hope they follow through on this one. I'll leave it be now for a bit until I can talk to them. Hopefully they'll call soon.

Hey I just got an idea. Maybe a few of you could test this for me to see if you are getting the same behavior. I suspect it goes unnoticed only because (a) some people don't use devices that output a variety of resolutions and/or (b) not many people use the zoom feature. If someone could test the following with a device that can output different resolutions (like 720p and 1080i), I'd appreciate it. Just take some device like an HD Tivo and set it to 720p with a freezeframe from a show that has 2.35:1 bars like a letterbox movie from HBOH or SHOH. Start with no zooms and start with it on the "user" input AR preset. With the unit in 720p, find the H/V zooms you need in order to get rid of the top/bottom bars while at the same time not distorting the image. I believe it takes like 93/93 zoom on my set. Once you have it right, switch from 720p to 1080i. I bet when you switch to 1080i, the picture will get distorted and more will be cropped in the vertical but less in the horizontal at the same 93/93 zoom. The manual states that the H/V values are percentage zooms and that 100 gives you a 150% zoom. Such is simply not the case. There is just nothing consistent about the zooms at all. 1080i is the worst of course because if you set the same H/V zoom, the picture distorts. That also should not happen. If anyone can confirm these tests, it may help DVDO.

Mike

bbexperience

07-19-06, 07:13 PM

Phalanx

07-19-06, 07:48 PM

Watched 2 full-length DVD movies with no audio-dropout so far.

I have spoken too early.. experienced 2 audio-dropouts while watching ShopGirl DVD last night. :(

DirectViewer

07-19-06, 10:05 PM

That is exactly what the VP30 does. If the digital in is not HDCP protected the VP30 sends it out the analog port. The digital out of your DVD player uses HDCP. It's not a per-disc thing. Upscaled playback of all discs must be HDCP encrypted. Toggling HDCP when no disc is in the player is possibly prohibited by the DVD consortium, going to cause HDCP handshaking issues and probably seen by Oppo as having little value relative to the engineering effort involved.

- Collin

The thing is, as a VP30 owner I don't even want upscaled playback of an SD DVD over HDMI, I want raw 480i. Is that prohibited as well?

I would think Oppo would find it worth doing if they could. Oppo is well aware of the synergies between the 970 and the VP306. In fact, they created the 970 for use with outboard video processors by downscaling (so to speak :) ) the 971's video processor.

escon

07-19-06, 10:09 PM

............Hey I just got an idea. Maybe a few of you could test this for me to see if you are getting the same behavior. I suspect it goes unnoticed only because (a) some people don't use devices that output a variety of resolutions and/or (b) not many people use the zoom feature...........
Mike
Hi Mike,

I think it's just that - I for one don't use the zoom control much. I certainly use the overscan controls though, and these seem to stick in the profiles and give constant ARs. I do agree though, that the way the zoom control (button on the remote) works at present, it's anything but intuitive or convenient. I would like it to just work very simply by increasing an equal percentage H and V on any currently displayed image. So, I think I've just answered the question to myself as well - I don't use it much because it doesn't do what I expect or want it to do.

Gary Murrell

07-19-06, 10:31 PM

that why I always preach the benefits of SDI over compromised HDMI, no one should be thinking of HDMI over SDI when it comes to delivery of 480i to our processors, HDMI 480i might seem easier and less costly but it isn't worth it in the end

HDCP is one big kick in the head :mad:

I have never seen or heard of a HDMI connector that passed video without HDCP, is it even possible? I don't think it is? DVI yes but not HDMI, not sure on that one ?

-Gary

vfrjim

07-19-06, 11:01 PM

As least you got a PM from Josh, I never even got a reply.....

I have not installled 1.09a yet because it did not list a fix for my problems with the audio problems that I was having or the HDMI(HDCP Sony DVR) jumpiness of the picture.

JaniH

07-19-06, 11:01 PM

I have never seen or heard of a HDMI connector that passed video without HDCP, is it even possible?Sure it is. For example HD Mediabox from Pixelmagics has an HDMI output without HDCP. But it doesn't play any copy protected material.

mchaney

07-19-06, 11:16 PM

Hi Mike,

I think it's just that - I for one don't use the zoom control much. I certainly use the overscan controls though, and these seem to stick in the profiles and give constant ARs. I do agree though, that the way the zoom control (button on the remote) works at present, it's anything but intuitive or convenient. I would like it to just work very simply by increasing an equal percentage H and V on any currently displayed image. So, I think I've just answered the question to myself as well - I don't use it much because it doesn't do what I expect or want it to do.
Overscan doesn't work for me for two reasons: (1) it doesn't save as part of an input AR preset (because it has nothing to do with input AR) and it also doesn't save as a display profile (because it has nothing to do with the display) and (2) overscan pegs at 96 and that's far too soon to get rid of 2:35 bars: it just doesn't go far enough.

So not only does overscan fall short because it won't allow enough overscan, it also can't be saved/recalled. The only way this can be fixed properly is to make the zooms work as advertised: based on consistent percentages of picture width/height.

Mike

Josh@dvdo

07-19-06, 11:17 PM

A little more feedback on the updates (1.09).

I never tried the 1.08 till I had the audio not functioning issue that 1.09 created for me so I tried 1.08 today and NOW I have audio, of course I get a little crackling when switching, but atleast I have audio without having to bypass the VP30. Also, since I never tried the 1.08(you guys should really give ALL the problems that you addressed when you give a new beta release) I tried the HDMI input from my Sony DHG-HDD250 and it does not close the curtains BUT is a little JUMPY in the picture, definitely something wrong since HDMI connected directly to my projector, it is nice and smooth.

Hope this feedback helps,

(currently using 1.08, seems like the best one so far)

Jim

Do you have access to any other device that is HDMI Certified as Repeater (as the VP30 as), perhaps an AV receiver with HDMI switching. The issue your DVR is having with the VP30 are more than likely related to how that DVR acts when it is connected to an HDMI Repeater versus an HDMI Sink (Display). When you say the picture is JUMPY, do you mean that the picture jumps up and down or is more like the framerate changes? Do you know if Sony has come out with any firmware updates?

Josh@dvdo

07-19-06, 11:27 PM

Overscan doesn't work for me for two reasons: (1) it doesn't save as part of an input AR preset (because it has nothing to do with input AR) and it also doesn't save as a display profile (because it has nothing to do with the display) and (2) overscan pegs at 96 and that's far too soon to get rid of 2:35 bars: it just doesn't go far enough.

So not only does overscan fall short because it won't allow enough overscan, it also can't be saved/recalled. The only way this can be fixed properly is to make the zooms work as advertised: based on consistent percentages of picture width/height.

Mike

Overscan is an adjustment that is used to adjust for a source which reveals garbage around the edges or small black bars. This is caused by getting 0% overscan on the output. This setting is automatically saved per input and per input resolution. Sources that I have seen that need to have this parameter adjusted are broadcast sources (sat and cable STBs) and game consoles.

Most displays have about 5% overscan. My RP-CRT had over 20% overscan. This is why there is an 'Underscan' adjustment on the Output so that you can see all of the active image by getting rid of the overscan. You can save this individually per 'Display Profile'.

Josh@dvdo

07-19-06, 11:29 PM

I have never seen or heard of a HDMI connector that passed video without HDCP, is it even possible? I don't think it is? DVI yes but not HDMI, not sure on that one ?

-Gary

Sure, how about a VP30. I have heard ;) of an LG LDA-511 that 'allowed' you to turn off HDCP via the remote.

collinp

07-19-06, 11:34 PM

So 1.09 still contains my two favorite bugs :

- The audio dropouts
- The "stops responding to discrete aspect IR commands" bug

If I can help diagnose/debug either of these problems I am more than willing. I'll run debug firmware and catch log strings over serial if you like.

- Collin

Josh@dvdo

07-19-06, 11:35 PM

I am at beta 1.08. When I feed my VP Dolby Digital from my D* HD DVR it passes it. My receiver show it as DD. However, if you look at the VP info screen, it lists the audio source as unknown.

This is normal behavior for this enhancement that we added to the VP30. The mechanism to read what the audio signal is on the HDMI input (unless it is PCM) is not there.

I did have one instance this afternoon where it would not pass DD. The VP was out putting a low volume motor boating sound. Not sure how I corrected it, but was messing with the audio inputs and some power cycling.

When this happened, where you on a DD or PCM channel? What kind of AV receiver do you have? What kind of signal did your AV receiver think it was decoding?

Josh@dvdo

07-19-06, 11:41 PM

DVDO, definitely a problem with audio with 1.09 beta. Using Component 2, using either Coax 3 digital or analog stereo, I randomly get NO audio at all. Definitely an issue.

Jim

With any source?

Josh@dvdo

07-19-06, 11:47 PM

Anybody?? Sorry, just didn't want to get lost in the shuffle with the new firmware being released and all. :)

Yes you can still see an improvement in the picture. I have used 'Underscan' in the past to compensate for overscan in a RP-CRT and for a front projector where the only where to place it was beyond the throw distance needed to fill the screen.

escon

07-20-06, 02:30 AM

Overscan is an adjustment that is used to adjust for a source which reveals garbage around the edges or small black bars. This is caused by getting 0% overscan on the output. This setting is automatically saved per input and per input resolution.

Most displays have about 5% overscan. My RP-CRT had over 20% overscan. This is why there is an 'Underscan' adjustment on the Output so that you can see all of the active image by getting rid of the overscan. You can save this individually per 'Display Profile'.
And Mike, this works/has worked 100% - for every FW release so far.

Gary Murrell

07-20-06, 02:33 AM

yes Mike, I don't understand why overscan and zooming doesn't take care of things for you but if you ask me you don't need to be zooming in on 2.35:1 content ;)

-Gary

John P.

07-20-06, 05:07 AM

mchaney - I don't know if this is of any use, but I just thought I'd throw into the mix the fact that some sources send out different overscans at different output resolutions.
For instance, there are a couple of DVD players that are known to send out 720p and 1080i with a different overscan rate than they do in 480i / 576i (or progressive).

Don't know if this could have anything to do with it, just thought I'd throw that in there. Maybe your source does the same thing (not consistent overscan on various output reslutions).

ailean

07-20-06, 08:30 AM

Sure it is. For example HD Mediabox from Pixelmagics has an HDMI output without HDCP. But it doesn't play any copy protected material.

Indeed, alas it doesn't support 480i/576i over HDMI so I have to use Component to make use of the ABT102D... so close... :rolleyes:

mchaney

07-20-06, 09:47 AM

And Mike, this works/has worked 100% - for every FW release so far.
Of course overscan works. That's not the issue. The issue is that the zooms don't work. Overscan is not a "workaround" for the zooms not working either because overscans cannot be saved as presets/profiles so you can't go back and forth. The HR10-250 Tivo does not change its overscan when you change from 480p to 720p to 1080i. You can put the HDNet test pattern on the screen and see the same overscan on all three. The issue is that the VP30 is inconsistent with its zooms and does not zoom by a percentage like it should. As an example, to zoom in and get rid of 2.35:1 bars on the same scene simply changed between 480p, 720p, and 1080i, here's what you have to set the zooms to:

480p: 62/62
720p: 93/93
1080i: 62/110 (and of course, the best you can do is 62/100 which is distorted)

This simply should not be. To get the 2.35 zoom to work properly in 480p and 720p you have to use two different presets and you have to know what kind of signal is coming in. An inconvenience but I can work around it. The biggest problem is 1080i where you don't have enough horizontal zoom to do the same thing because the horizontal zoom is way off and doesn't match the vertical zoom. To compensate for this, you could set your zooms to 56/100 (which are the numbers required at 1080i to avoid distortion) and then use overscan to zoom the rest of the way. You cannot use overscan alone because it won't go far enough. This means that to get this to work, you have to have three presets set up: one for 480p, one for 720p, and one for 1080i, and when using the 1080i preset, you also have to select overscan and manually crank the number until the bars are gone and then try to remember what overscan was set to before you messed with it so you can set it back when you are done with the 2.35:1 content. A real mess.

The zoom needs to be fixed so that it works and is a percentage of the image width/height like the manual states, period! Right now it is not possible to crop off the 2.35 bars on 1080i content without a huge hassle every time. You should be able to select a single preset with zooms to do this without all the rigamarole, and your zooms should not change/distort just because the input signal changed from 720p to 1080i, etc.! You should be able to select a preset which contains zooms that eliminate 2.35:1 bars and that preset should work regardless of the input signal resolution. The way it is now, you have to select different presets for each input resolution to get the same crop, and if you are in 1080i, the values are so distorted that you have to set non-equal values to get an equal H/V zoom and on top of that you have to manually screw with overscan. Not what a $2k piece of equipment should be doing. Zooming is such a simple thing and such a primary function on this machine, this really should not be happening.

Mike

vfrjim

07-20-06, 10:42 AM

Do you have access to any other device that is HDMI Certified as Repeater (as the VP30 as), perhaps an AV receiver with HDMI switching. The issue your DVR is having with the VP30 are more than likely related to how that DVR acts when it is connected to an HDMI Repeater versus an HDMI Sink (Display). When you say the picture is JUMPY, do you mean that the picture jumps up and down or is more like the framerate changes? Do you know if Sony has come out with any firmware updates?

I own 2 Sony DVR's, one on a DVI switcher(Zektor) on another Display device and it has no problems. What I mean by jumpy is that while watching for example text displayed on the screen, it actually goes up and down and not smooth, but only on certain feeds, really weird since it does not exist if it is connected directly to the display or if I connect it via Component video. Also, it constantly closes the curtains and goes to a blue screen when the channel goes from a high-def picture to standard def, but a few seconds later it opens the curtains and the blue screen goes away. The only update that is available for the Sony DVR is when using a Scientific Atlanta Cablecard, it has issues and you need to send the unit back to sony for an electrical modification and firmware update, I use a Motorola Cablecard, so I never needed to send it back to Sony.

To solve this problem, I wonder if you will need a Sony DVR connected to a VP30 to see it for your self.

Jim