Just wanted to say thanks to DVDO. I got a call from the lead tech today and talked him through the zoom bugs and what I was seeing. He was able to reproduce the problems I outlined above and at least at first glance, he seemed to agree something isn't right and that he would convey the information to the engineers. I'm hopeful that my info will help them produce a fix and I feel better now knowing they are looking into it.

MikeGreat to hear Mike. Your long previous post above helped explain what you really meant. Personally, I don't zoom 2.35 movies - too afraid on what I might miss out on on the sides. ;)

I own 2 Sony DVR's, one on a DVI switcher(Zektor) on another Display device and it has no problems.

I think an explanation of the 3 types of HDMI devices will be beneficial to understanding this issue.

1. Source
2. Sink
3. Repeater

Sources translate content into a transferable interface (in this case HDMI) which is then transmitted down-stream.

In a simple system a Sink is the next device down-stream, and a simple “Source-Sink” HDCP authentication process occurs (assuming the downstream device is HDCP compliant). A Sink is defined by the HDCP group (www.digital-cp.com) as a presentation device – or more conventionally as a device that either amplifies or directly displays the transmitted (and received) “Audio/Video Content”.

In a more complex setup, the next device after the Source may be a Repeater, which then responds to the Source that it is a Repeater - while attempting to authenticate with the down-stream device attached to it. This is where some devices have problems. They do not correctly recognize the "Repeater" reply and fail immediately. The next possible issue with Repeater Compatibility is that the link is based on accumulation of the number of devices in a signal chain. This number must be correct in order for an HDCP link to be successful. If the link between the Sink and the Repeater is broken, the Repeater is supposed to shut down the transmission of A/V Content. If the reply of the total devices attached to a Repeater chain comes back as "0" before it gets to the Source the link is aborted.

Devices that have multiple output signal paths >might< be "legal" under the HDCP device licensing assuming that the method they use to authenticate is as a Sink at the inputs and a new Source at the outputs (thus they will have to be registered and tested as both types of devices - this can be expensive). Otherwise the second or other number of outputs will not be part of a repeater authentication chain – but the Source and Sink to Repeater compatibility must still be supported correctly.

The most confusing part to people in general about HDCP is that there are in fact two different ways to authenticate under HDCP: Source-Sink and Source-Repeater(s)-Sink. The reason this is not widely known, and why this causes problems in trouble shooting, is that there is typically no clear indication by manufacturers about which license they are using (this is especially bad with “middle of the chain” devices like switchers and A/V receivers).

As many manufacturers other than Silicon Image produce HDMI chips (the device which ultimately executes the HDCP function), the quality control and HDMI functionality implemetations of the companies, is out of Silicon Image’s hands. Also – just because a product manufacturer placed a Silicon Image HDMI chip in their box (like the popular 9030 transmitter or 9031 2-input receiver), does not indicate that the device that is in charge of controlling that chip is controlling it correctly/completely. This is why firmware upgradeability in HDMI devices it critical (otherwise you may be stuck with the electronic equivalent of a 2-year-old with a temper tantrum).

The Zektor HDVI5 Switch (http://www.zektor.com/hdvi5/specs.htm) which is specified as HDMI 1.2a cannot be using Silicon Image transmitters and be fully 1.2a compliant (both on the inputs and the outputs) as Silicon Image has as of yet not released a 1.2a Compliant Transmitter (the current 9030 is only rated 1.1 compliant, unless there is an App Note from SI on how to do this) – or if it is using a Silicon Image transmitter it is only good for HDMI 1.1 (also 1.65 GHz is definitely a typo as 1080p/60 is 148.35MHz – GHz would be ~10 times faster than what the single link HDMI interface is rated for. Now “Gbps” on the other hand…). All this aside - there is no listing in the details of whether the device is licensed and operating as either a Repeater or a Source/Sink.

For a problem where the display is not replying correctly due to a repeater in the path (this includes the time interval) there will be a break in the transmitted video as the link must be valid before video is displayed in order to be compliant with HDCP. This can be mystifying to some because: "The picture works just fine when I'm going from the source to the display (Sink)directly". The fact that there are two methods for HDCP authentication however, invalidates this line of troubleshooting, as one can be potentially affecting the method of authentication. Unfortunately not many display manufacturers offer firmware upgrades if there is a problem with the HDMI chip control (they are typically set and forget devices at the time of sale).

The HDCP authentication method is not something that can necessarily have a “choke point” device in the chain. Weird things happen when devices of mixed quality are placed in specific orders - even causing problems on up-stream or down-stream devices (i.e. the new device affects the entire system, not just the two adjacent devices). HDCP communication is bidirectional between every device – thus the more devices you have in a chain (and the less that is known about their HDCP qualifications and capabilites), the more likely you are to have a problem.

Excellent synopsis of the situation. What it points out is that we generally blame as "HDMI" problems is really just blaming the messenger (Literally). The real culprit is HDCP!

Imagine if every time a DVD failed to play properly on a consumers chain of equipment (for any reason whatsoever) it was returned by the consumer who demanded their money back. After all it doesn't work! If every consumer did that, it might take a week before the industry decided it has a massive FUBAR on its hands.

Imagine if every time a cable program did not play properly on the consumers chain of equipment they demanded a small refund from the cable company for non-delivery-of- service-; the flip side of theft-of-service. Perhaps would take another week.

I can dream can't I?

HDCP, when implemented correctly, works great. It is the implementation that is at fault not the standard.

HDCP, when implemented correctly, works great. It is the implementation that is at fault not the standard.Perhaps, but what is sad is that the process interferes, at least in the case of the VP30 and other VPs as well, with non-HDCP sources getting to their destination properly.

A standard that does not have associated with it a rigorous compliance test and certification with the right to use the name of the standard only if compliance testing passed and certification granted is not worth the paper it is written on.

All specifications are "subject to interpretation". I am being kind and not even discussing errors of omission or errors of comission made by implementers.

Just wanted to say thanks to DVDO. I got a call from the lead tech today and talked him through the zoom bugs and what I was seeing. He was able to reproduce the problems I outlined above and at least at first glance, he seemed to agree something isn't right and that he would convey the information to the engineers. I'm hopeful that my info will help them produce a fix and I feel better now knowing they are looking into it.

Mike

Mike, thanks for being so eloquently and tactfully persistent.

Soon, perhaps, when a 4:3 source has letterboxed 16:9 within it, we'll be able to zoom the letterbox-within-picturebox image to the full size of a 16:9 screen (and see the mosquitoes more clearly :) ).

I kind of agree with Josh on the HDCP issues. For whatever reason, the reality is that the HDCP implementation is almost entirely in the hands of manufacturers. U can only hope they are doing things right. As of now almost all "middleware" are having issues (just go to the receiver forum and see what they say abt the HDMI receivers). And as always, as manufacturers getting "seasoned", the newer models will have less problems. We'll just have to live with it. Newer models will be better.

On the other hand, I feel the audio dropout issue is a completely diff problem. And it does need DVDO's attention. I'm sure they are working on it quietly (e.g 1.09 did solve my friend's audio issue even though it's not mentioned in the fix list).

Sorry about this being kinda off topic but I'm looking for a new remote and wondered what everyone is using to work the VP30 for switching inputs etc...

I figured I would have a better chance here then the remote forum.

Thanks,

Jeremy

Sorry about this being kinda off topic but I'm looking for a new remote and wondered what everyone is using to work the VP30 for switching inputs etc...

I figured I would have a better chance here then the remote forum.

Thanks,

Jeremy

I have had literally a dozen remotes over the past 10 years and all of them have some fault or another. I've tried a high end pronto pro NG and hated having to look at the screen everytime in order to push a button. I hated the tiny buttons of countless Harmony remotes.

Finally I found remote nirvana! I now use a Universal Remote MX-850 Aeros.

http://www.universalremote.com/products/index.php?item=mx850

It's not terribly expensive but is so intelligently designed and well thought out. The programming software is a breeze (not Harmony easy but not complex either). It reminds me of my old Marantz remote which I considered the cream of the crop for the longest time. This one is king of the hill IMO.

Mike, thanks for being so eloquently and tactfully persistent.

Soon, perhaps, when a 4:3 source has letterboxed 16:9 within it, we'll be able to zoom the letterbox-within-picturebox image to the full size of a 16:9 screen (and see the mosquitoes more clearly :) ).

Can't you already do that? When I watch the shows on SciFi they are letterboxed in a 4:3 window so all I do is change the aspect ratio from 1.33 to 1.78 and it fills the entire screen without any distortion. All I have to do is hit the aspect ratio button on the remote a couple of times.(two or three I can't remember exactly) But that's all I need to do for it to fill the screen properly.

Yup, no big deal. Now that Deadwood and Entourage are back, that's what I've been doing for a couple monthes. I can never remember exactly which key/button it is, but once I'm there, it is perfect. :D

So Josh, from my understanding, Sony most likely will not fix the problem because an HDMI repeater is beyond thier control? and that it works correctly when connected directly to a display device?



Also, have you looked into why I would not get any audio via the stereo input with the 1.09 firmware?


Thanks,

Jim

I have had literally a dozen remotes over the past 10 years and all of them have some fault or another. I've tried a high end pronto pro NG and hated having to look at the screen everytime in order to push a button. I hated the tiny buttons of countless Harmony remotes.

Finally I found remote nirvana! I now use a Universal Remote MX-850 Aeros.

http://www.universalremote.com/products/index.php?item=mx850

It's not terribly expensive but is so intelligently designed and well thought out. The programming software is a breeze (not Harmony easy but not complex either). It reminds me of my old Marantz remote which I considered the cream of the crop for the longest time. This one is king of the hill IMO.

I second that, altough I have the 800. I got mine on eBay, together with an IR repeater, very reasonably. It comes with a good library of pre-programmed devices; you can download other device codes from remotecentral.com and there is also a simple utility, you can find on the web, that converts Pronto codes. Macro programming is very simple, just one button switches between any of my input/outputs.

Sorry about this being kinda off topic but I'm looking for a new remote and wondered what everyone is using to work the VP30 for switching inputs etc...

I figured I would have a better chance here then the remote forum.

Thanks,

Jeremy


I've been extremely happy w/ my Harmony 880 remote. Programming is a breeze, and if/when you switch things around, re-programming your macros is equally a breeze. It's one of the best investments I've made in my HT system...and at the prices you can get it for now, it's a solid bargain (of course, if you need RF functionality, I'd go w/ the 890, which operates the same).

Agreed, the Harmony is far and away the best remote I've had in over 30 years of playing with the things.

Staying OT for the moment, I have always used the Philips line and the theater runs off of a Philips iPronto. I hate Philips as a company but have not yet found a better solution for my situation. I really like the large screen real estate of the iPronto.

Does any one know of an RF receiver that will receive the RF from a remote and bring it into a PC on a COM port?

vfrjim,
I haven't experienced curtain closing or picture shake issues using the Sony DVR's with the VP30 and JVC Dila TV. Audio issues are present along with some other problems such as lock-up's but nothing like you are having. Perhaps the combo with your TV and the VP30 as a repeater really is the issue.
JFW

I received my VP30 yesterday with SDI mod and precision deinterlacing board. I stayed up till 4am this morning hooking everything up and playing with it. :D

One problem I did have is I could never get Analog/RGBHV out to display anything. I'm certain it wasn't a HDCP issue as I selected input Video1. No menu no nothing. Here's a rundown of my environment/actions:

BNC out from VP30 to VGA to BNC adapter (from Bluejeanscable) connecting to the VGA port on my Sony 40" XBR LCD. I used Yellow for the H and White for the V--wasn't sure if this was correct but I found a few non-specific docs on the internet that say that yellow is H and white is V.

In the Output Setup I changed the format to XGA (verified my display supports it) and changed Colorspace to RGB and SyncType to H+V+ (actually tried them all H-V+ etc) and still no picture at all.

If I have an HDMI cable connected for output does that automatically disable the Analog out? I would think I'd be able to use both outputs for different sources right?

Anyone have any ideas about what I'm doing wrong or what the issue is? Thanks in advance!!

I believe digital and analog outputs on the VP30 are mutually exclusive: in the output setup submenu, you have to select either digital or analog output.

--Andre

I believe digital and analog outputs on the VP30 are mutually exclusive: in the output setup submenu, you have to select either digital or analog output.

--Andre

That is correct and you can save 10 output profiles that includes this value so you can switch at the touch of a button or even based on input signal. but you can't run both at the same time.

Daniel.

Hai,

BUG (reported to beta@) and WORKAROUND for the people who can't save the image shift value in the 1.08, 1.09 and 1.09a releases.

The problem is that the image shift value is not saved in a display profile. It does seem to save it but like its reset if you try to recover it (and the value is 0 again). I found a work around that should make it easer to find it.

I use the feature to 'shift' a 2.35 image in the 16:9 area. I shift it down. As a test i made 3 profiles first profile is a 'clean' so it displays the who 16:9 without image shift.

The second is one where the 2.35 image is active so screen is 2.35 and image shift is about 88.

Now if you switch from profile 1 to profile 2 the gui of the vp30 jumps down but not the video content !! so it does seem to remember something but it looks like its resetting the 88 value for the image shift. My guess is its a sequence problem so selecting profile 2 a second time might solve it. But you have added a check where selecting the same profile 2 times doesn't work (makes sense).

So i added profile 3 that is the same as the profile 2.

Now if i select profile 1 (full 16:9) it jumps up (correct)

then select profile 2 (2.35 with 88 shift) the GUI jumps down

then select profile 3 (2.35 with 88 shift) the video layer also jumps down.

Using a macro the 'dubbel selecting' of profile 2 and 3 is a workaround.

Hope this helps,

Daniel.

vfrjim,
I haven't experienced curtain closing or picture shake issues using the Sony DVR's with the VP30 and JVC Dila TV. Audio issues are present along with some other problems such as lock-up's but nothing like you are having. Perhaps the combo with your TV and the VP30 as a repeater really is the issue.
JFW


I have to isolate the Sony DVR since my Projector (Mits WD2000) has no problems with any other devices(Oppo dvd player, 2 HTPC's) with the VP30.


OTOH, I think I might have isolated my issue with the ability to play back stereo, it might have been a setting on my satellite receiver. I will test it out tonight with 1.09a to see if I have the solution. (It was set to Surround mode instead of Stereo, maybe the VP30 has issues with processed stereo signals, who knows)

Jim

I received my VP30 yesterday with SDI mod and precision deinterlacing board. I stayed up till 4am this morning hooking everything up and playing with it. :D

One problem I did have is I could never get Analog/RGBHV out to display anything. I'm certain it wasn't a HDCP issue as I selected input Video1. No menu no nothing. Here's a rundown of my environment/actions:

BNC out from VP30 to VGA to BNC adapter (from Bluejeanscable) connecting to the VGA port on my Sony 40" XBR LCD. I used Yellow for the H and White for the V--wasn't sure if this was correct but I found a few non-specific docs on the internet that say that yellow is H and white is V.

In the Output Setup I changed the format to XGA (verified my display supports it) and changed Colorspace to RGB and SyncType to H+V+ (actually tried them all H-V+ etc) and still no picture at all.

If I have an HDMI cable connected for output does that automatically disable the Analog out? I would think I'd be able to use both outputs for different sources right?

Anyone have any ideas about what I'm doing wrong or what the issue is? Thanks in advance!!

Thankfully it was an easy fix. I ended up swapping the H and V signal cables and everything worked great.

Not sure if this goes in another forum but since it applies to the VP30: Is anyone else using a Comcast/Motorola 6412 HD box? I tried to output from the 6412 (DVI) with a digital coax cable but I couldn't get any sound even when trying all of the audio inputs.

The VP30 can't downmix Dolby digital tracks can it? With only one analog input and a few analog only devices I'm trying to move everything to digital that I can and send it out over the HDMI port. Until I can get my surround up and running everything is running through my television speakers.

The VP30 can't downmix Dolby digital tracks can it? With only one analog input and a few analog only devices I'm trying to move everything to digital that I can and send it out over the HDMI port. Until I can get my surround up and running everything is running through my television speakers.

The VP30 does not have an audio decoder built-in so it is not capable of downmixing a DD or dts input to PCM output.

Not sure if this goes in another forum but since it applies to the VP30: Is anyone else using a Comcast/Motorola 6412 HD box? I tried to output from the 6412 (DVI) with a digital coax cable but I couldn't get any sound even when trying all of the audio inputs.

The VP30 can't downmix Dolby digital tracks can it? With only one analog input and a few analog only devices I'm trying to move everything to digital that I can and send it out over the HDMI port. Until I can get my surround up and running everything is running through my television speakers.

I use the DCT3412 (HDMI version of 6412) and it works fine. I have successfully output sound over hdmi and optical/coax. I used to run HDMI for the video to the VP30 and then either optical or coax for the audio, but decided to go all HDMI. So, now I just run all inputs (DVD, cable) into the VP30 HDMI, then use the VP30 as the switcher and run one output to my Denon 4806 AVR. The Denon passes the video untouched and the audio goes out in full digital over HDMI. Cleaner, less wires and better sound. The LOTR trilogy decodes beautifully into clear 6.1 DTS and the picture is wonderful at 480i out of my Oppo 970 thru the VP30 and passed thru the Denon to the projector. Works well.

Not sure if this goes in another forum but since it applies to the VP30: Is anyone else using a Comcast/Motorola 6412 HD box? I tried to output from the 6412 (DVI) with a digital coax cable but I couldn't get any sound even when trying all of the audio inputs.

The VP30 can't downmix Dolby digital tracks can it? With only one analog input and a few analog only devices I'm trying to move everything to digital that I can and send it out over the HDMI port. Until I can get my surround up and running everything is running through my television speakers.

I use the 6412 w/ my VP30 via DVI and optical out and have no problems. Though the 6412 can be finicky so sometimes I have to turn it off then on again (the 6412 not the vp30). BUT sorry to sound stupid but on both of my 6412's, I don't remember seeing digital coax as a output option. I could be wrong but the one in my bedroom does not have coax digital out.

Thank you both for the feedback. My 6412 does have digital coax (it's the orange rca jack).

I'm trying to do something slightly different in that I want to feed the digital audio to the VP30 and have it send out via HDMI to my display and hear sound through the display only. Only PCM 2 channel audio is supported by my display on the HDMI input.

Looking at this from a different direction: Does anyone know if the VP30 is fed component video that it can send out the signal via RGBHV? I believe HDCP is limited to HDMI and DVI ports only right? I've found that the performance with 1:1 pixel mapping (or pretty close to it in the case of my 1366x768 LCD) is far superior to the HDMI input. How are others with an HD digital cable box and a analog display input handling the situation?

Thanks!!

Can't you already do that? When I watch the shows on SciFi they are letterboxed in a 4:3 window so all I do is change the aspect ratio from 1.33 to 1.78 and it fills the entire screen without any distortion. All I have to do is hit the aspect ratio button on the remote a couple of times.(two or three I can't remember exactly) But that's all I need to do for it to fill the screen properly.
Thanks, Aaron ... I'll try that.

This is a weird new world for me ... if you want to zoom, you can use overscan or change the aspect ratio -- anything but the zoom button. :eek:

Thanks, Aaron ... I'll try that.

This is a weird new world for me ... if you want to zoom, you can use overscan or change the aspect ratio -- anything but the zoom button. :eek:


Well the whole idea is a game between the input 'box' and the output 'box' (screen/display) and then within these 2 boxes moving it about. So yes its a little more complex but play around with it for a while and you will see it makes sense in the end :). This split between input and output means you can set things up for a 4:3, 16:9, 2.35 screen and 'map' the incoming signals the way you want (how should 4:3 be mapped on a 16:9 screen or how should a 2.35 signal be mapped on a 2.35 screen).

Im sure this sounds even more complex as before but once you have more screen/display demands combined with say 3 or 4 input format (signals) you will see how handy it is.

Daniel.

.. and in my opinion this is one the best features of the DVDO line that gets unnoticed: really simple flexible AR controls. Other products can also say "flexible AR", but not like this. (imho the DVDO way is more correct, i.e. fitting diff ARs is an opeation of AR matching, not an explicit zoom/underscan/etc.) I've just tried another popular make, and just realize it cannot do this via a simple button. It can only do a zoom. Also it cannot do the shift of 2.35. (btw danielo thanks for the workaround tip of the saving of the shift! Hope dvdo gets this cleared asap, since it's easily reproduceable)

@c722 :

Well i felt rather stupid in the image shift bug, if you read back i claimed like 3 times i could not find it but with the 1.09a it hit me in the face and it was clear what was happening (imho) when i noticed the GUI shift but not the video inself so its not the saving that is going wrong but the recovering from that the workaround was a good gamble.

I agree with the image-shift too its a very nice feature but for some reason even with dvdo it took several of us (last year?) months to convince them to add it to the HD+ and now vp30.

greetings,

Daniel.

the image-shift too its a very nice feature but for some reason even with dvdo it took several of us (last year?) months to convince them to add it to the HD+ and now vp30.

yea I remembered that. there was one time Josh was asking for suggestions for the HD+ and I remember the overwhelming response was 480i DVI and this shift. (I even sent an PM to Josh :) )

For now, very honestly, I hope DVDO can seriously work on the scaling. The competitior may not be gd at other "flexible" features, but the scaling is really impressive.

I'm back on the overscan kick again. :rolleyes: Is having overscan disabled an absolute necessity to successfully get a PQ improvement out of the VP30? I went and looked at a Samsung 6187 at ABC Warehouse tonight and was actually quite impressed with the SD picture quality. I think with a VP30 in the mix I could get it to the point that I'm quite happy with it. However that set has known issues with the overscan setting not being kept through a power down, and hence the question.

Yes you can still see an improvement in the picture. I have used 'Underscan' in the past to compensate for overscan in a RP-CRT and for a front projector where the only where to place it was beyond the throw distance needed to fill the screen.


Maybe I'm nitpicking here - I just want to make it really clear: You (Josh) say you can still see an improvement even when using Overscan/Underscan, as I understand it.

-Does this mean that using Overscan / Underscan will introduce some deterioration of the picture quality?

'Cause I have a 50" Sony 3LCD HD rear projection set now, which has a lot of overscan on its HDMI input, so I've used Underscan on the VP30 to compensate for that. I'm not sure if it's the way the rear projection tech works, but the image isn't as 'eye-poppingly' better with this set as it was with my previous TV, which was an SD plasma (I have achieved 1:1 pixel rating on both sets).

Hai,

BUG (reported to beta@) and WORKAROUND for the people who can't save the image shift value in the 1.08, 1.09 and 1.09a releases.

The problem is that the image shift value is not saved in a display profile. It does seem to save it but like its reset if you try to recover it (and the value is 0 again). I found a work around that should make it easer to find it.

I use the feature to 'shift' a 2.35 image in the 16:9 area. I shift it down. As a test i made 3 profiles first profile is a 'clean' so it displays the who 16:9 without image shift.

The second is one where the 2.35 image is active so screen is 2.35 and image shift is about 88.

Now if you switch from profile 1 to profile 2 the gui of the vp30 jumps down but not the video content !! so it does seem to remember something but it looks like its resetting the 88 value for the image shift. My guess is its a sequence problem so selecting profile 2 a second time might solve it. But you have added a check where selecting the same profile 2 times doesn't work (makes sense).

So i added profile 3 that is the same as the profile 2.

Now if i select profile 1 (full 16:9) it jumps up (correct)

then select profile 2 (2.35 with 88 shift) the GUI jumps down

then select profile 3 (2.35 with 88 shift) the video layer also jumps down.

Using a macro the 'dubbel selecting' of profile 2 and 3 is a workaround.

Hope this helps,

Daniel.

Well, I'll have to try that and see how it goes. I'd already noticed in the past that I could get the shift to "sometimes" work, if I selected different profiles and kept going back trying the one I wanted.

Lately I've been able to just select user and "most" of the time the shift is still there and works. I don't think it will always stay there though.

The problem has been there for me ever since the first upgrade, so its not on DVDO's main to do list, thats for sure. I haven't even tried 1.09 yet, because of all the bugs people were talking about.

I did notice that I lose audio over HDMI with a Directv HDTivo with 1.08 and have to unplug the DVDO to get it back. That don't happen using optical.

The major bug that was reported in version 1.09, the unit locking up while saving 'Display Profiles', has been resolved in version 1.09a which is available now.

We are looking at this shift bug that Daniel has reported (Thanks, Daniel) and I should have some feedback as to a solution next week. As I stated previously, audio bugs have been our #1 priority, which is why this was not resolved in previous versions. We know that there are still issues with random dropouts and we are working on a solution. We will be releasing a new Beta version (1.10) late next week with even more enhancements. One of the changes is that the zoom model has been changed to address the issues reported by mchaney to a model where the values are always relative and displayed as a value between 1.000x and 2.000x.

That would result in the same amount of picture on the screen, which is part of what you're looking for. The other part is that you want 1 pixel in the 1080p source to control 1 and only 1 pixel on the display. The only way to control how a 1080p signal from a source is mapped onto raw pixels is in the set. With the default settings on the HLS models the source has a different overscan than the overscan physically designed into the projector. This means that 1 pixel in the source actually controls something like 1.002 pixels on the screen, so some scaling is applied by the set. The resulting image on the is not quite sharp/clean as it could be because its been scaled once by the VP30 and unnecessarily a 2nd time by the set.

- Collin

Maybe I'm nitpicking here - I just want to make it really clear: You (Josh) say you can still see an improvement even when using Overscan/Underscan, as I understand it.

-Does this mean that using Overscan / Underscan will introduce some deterioration of the picture quality?

'Cause I have a 50" Sony 3LCD HD rear projection set now, which has a lot of overscan on its HDMI input, so I've used Underscan on the VP30 to compensate for that. I'm not sure if it's the way the rear projection tech works, but the image isn't as 'eye-poppingly' better with this set as it was with my previous TV, which was an SD plasma (I have achieved 1:1 pixel rating on both sets).


You guys are really confusing me. :) It was my understanding from Collin's reply to my question about overscan that underscan was not the proper way to solve the problem. For one thing, I thought that true 1:1 pixel mapping wasn't possible uless the overscan on the set was eliminated. True?

Maybe the answer lies somewhere between, and that's what Josh was trying to say. You can get an improvement in PQ using underscan, but turning overscan off on the set would result in a larger leap in improved quality.

@Larry

The trick with bugs is finding them in a way you can reproduce and explain to the programming team. I myself could not reproduce the image shift bug in a stable way until now thats why i posted it this way. Most of the time once the bug can be reproduced in a stable way you ask a programmer to take a quick look (if its not on the prio list) and he/she comes back with :

1) ahh i found it, it was a stupid mistake i fixed it right away

2) i see what the problem is but fixing it might give new bugs so we will
delay the patch until we can test it better

3) we see the bug but we have to rewrite some part of the framework to
solve it and put it on the prio-todo list.

@Josh

Thanks, ive used the output profiles alot on 2 vp30's the last few days and no lockups anymore with 1.09a. I fully understand that audio is on the top-1 spot now and thats the reason i fiddled until i got a workaround that many can just program in their remote macro controllers :).

Daniel.

One thing about the audio drops. I have been having them since the beginning. With each release they get shorter in length and less frequent. Then I installed 1.09a and they were gone, well almost. One thing I did do was install a HD-A1 via HDMI, this being my first HDMI audio device. Over HDMI I get no audio dropouts but over the other audio inputs they do still happen.

Maybe the answer lies somewhere between, and that's what Josh was trying to say. You can get an improvement in PQ using underscan, but turning overscan off on the set would result in a larger leap in improved quality.

Correct. The improvements a VP30/ABT102 will make on a display that allows 1:1 pixel mapping with 0% overscan are larger than a display that requires the user to use underscan on the VP30 to compensate for overscan on the display. There is improvement in PQ on both sets it is just larger on the display that does not require underscan. This is especially true if underscan is being used as a zoom adjustment for a projector because less of the available resolution is being used so that the image fills the screen.

Ah - thank you. My TV is actually in for repair right now, but when I get it back, I'll see if I can live with the default overscan the TV has on its HDMI input, and if avoiding to use the VP30s Underscan (much) will give me that little extra PQ.

This may have been answered already earlier, but since it wasn't an issue for me then I didn't follow it very closely. Now it is an issue as I have hooked a HTPC to the VP30 and my question is if the underscan setting under the Output menu is global or can it be saved to the particular input. I notice that the menu graphic itself shifts depending on the amount of adjustment and the first time I tried it and then went to another input that input was underscanned too much so I had to adjust it back out.

The problem is the output from the HTPC is overscanning and I'm still working at it from that end to solve the problem but was curious about the setting on the VP30 as I had never used it before.

Path is HTPC/1920x1080i>VP30/1920x1080i>Mits CRT/RPTV

One of the changes is that the zoom model has been changed to address the issues reported by mchaney to a model where the values are always relative and displayed as a value between 1.000x and 2.000x.
Woohoo! :) :) :)

I'm drooling with anticipation. Thanks Josh!

Mike

-When you think about it, this kind of customer - manufacturer relationship is quite unique, isnt it? I mean - the next time I use a feature and it works flawlessly, I might have to thank a forum member for that, as well as DVDO. :)

DVDO rocks!

-That may be the booze talking, but I'm pretty sure I'll say the same thing tomorrow.

-When you think about it, this kind of customer - manufacturer relationship is quite unique, isnt it? I mean - the next time I use a feature and it works flawlessly, I might have to thank a forum member for that, as well as DVDO. :)

DVDO rocks!

-That may be the booze talking, but I'm pretty sure I'll say the same thing tomorrow.
It's not the booze, DVDO is easily top of the mark when it comes to customer relations/interactions. If other CE companies were only half as good as DVDO our quality of life(home theater) would improve dramatically.

-When you think about it, this kind of customer - manufacturer relationship is quite unique, isnt it? I mean - the next time I use a feature and it works flawlessly, I might have to thank a forum member for that, as well as DVDO. :)

DVDO rocks!

-That may be the booze talking, but I'm pretty sure I'll say the same thing tomorrow.


Very rare but not quite unique. Don't forget Oppo. That's why so many are using the Oppo DVD players (myself included) with the VP30.

At the peril of just confusing matters more, I'll take another crack at this.

You guys are really confusing me. :) It was my understanding from Collin's reply to my question about overscan that underscan was not the proper way to solve the problem. For one thing, I thought that true 1:1 pixel mapping wasn't possible uless the overscan on the set was eliminated. True?


No. 1:1 pixel mapping is not possible unless scaling on the set is eliminated.

In general terms overscan is nothing more than the clipping of the edges of the image by the set. 1:1 pixel mapping is one pixel in the source controlling 1 pixel in the imager even if some of these pixels are clipped by overscan. One can have no overscan and not achieve 1:1 pixel mapping and one can have 1:1 pixel mapping yet still have overscan. The best is to have no overscan & 1:1 pixel mapping.

Your confusion is probably coming form the fact that Samsung DLPs have two overscan settings. One which does no scaling yet still has overscan due to physical clipping of the edges of the projected image by the bezel. This is the setting that doesn't stick on HLR & HLS models. The other overscan setting scales the image in the set to create an even higher overscan percentage. This is the default setting. I have no idea why Samsung though this setting was at all desirable.

The VP30 will be doing scaling of all non-1080p inputs. It might also be doing scaling for all inputs if you use the underscan feature in the VP30. In either case there is no need to soften the image further by subjecting it to additional scaling in the DLP.

Maybe the answer lies somewhere between, and that's what Josh was trying to say. You can get an improvement in PQ using underscan, but turning overscan off on the set would result in a larger leap in improved quality.

There is a feature in the VP30 called underscan. It is used to shrink the image in the VP30 so that you can minimize the amount clipped by overscan in the set. Provided scaling is turned off on the DLP, you will still have 1:1 pixel mapping between the VP30 and the set. What Josh was saying is that on a display with 0% underscan and 1:1 pixel mapping you can leave underscan off thereby using more of the pixels in the imager, and in the case of 1080p in to the VP30 and out to a 1080p display you can avoid all scaling completely. This is most ideal, but really only going to happen if you get a front projector. All rear projection/direct view sets are going to have some overscan and most likely you'll want to use the underscan feature of the VP30 to compensate for this.

The differences we're talking about here are very minor. Toggling the overscan setting on my 720p DLP results in a subtle PQ change. It is clear watching the set that the no in set scaling picture looks clearer, but the difference is subtle enough that I'm sure I wouldn't be able to capture the difference with a picture. In my setup only on 720p sources can one see any improvement by disabling underscan compensation in the VP30 and this difference is far, far more subtle than the difference between the two underscan settings on the Samsung.

- Collin

It's not the booze, DVDO is easily top of the mark when it comes to customer relations/interactions. If other CE companies were only half as good as DVDO our quality of life(home theater) would improve dramatically.


I used to think the same thing, but I have posted my issue here at least once, other have too. Other people have confirmed that they too want to know the answer but it still goes ignored:-

A review by a very respected magazine "Widescreen Review" (article link actually on DVDO website) quoted DVDO as saying they "promised" they will be implementing this "in the near future". that was months ago, and Beta versions still have nothing.

I hope it doesn't go the same way as a similar previous attempt to give digital input scaling with the Iscan HD that was dropped because the procesor got too hot. I'm pretty sure it won't make the processor too hot (since it's not changing the signal) but perhaps there is some other problem blocking the way.

I have cut down my post since it has all been said before, but after promising to a magazine which helps their sales, even quoting it on their website, I'd expect a response on this forum after many mentions of it.

Josh, could you give us an idea of if, and in what way you are planning on implementing this function, and a vague timeframe?

1) Is it true that HDMI audio is always passed to the Digital outputs, even for HDCP protected HDMI input data?

2) Are both digital audio outputs active all the time?

3) When and how will 1080p video passthrough be implemented?

Josh, could you give us an idea of if, and in what way you are planning on implementing this function, and a vague timeframe?

1) Is it true that HDMI audio is always passed to the Digital outputs, even for HDCP protected HDMI input data?

2) Are both digital audio outputs active all the time?

3) When and how will 1080p video passthrough be implemented?

I should note that I have stated previously that I will not comment on future features.

I understand your frustration so I will comment on our intentions when it comes to adding pass-through functionality to the VP30. We intend on adding pass-through to the VP30 in the next couple of months. I will verify next week if there are any limitations to this feature, rather than overstate the capabilties now.

HDMI audio is passed to the digital outputs if the input signal is 2 channel PCM, DD or dts.

Both digital audio outputs are active at the same time.

Josh you stated

HDMI audio is passed to the digital outputs if the input signal is 2 channel PCM, DD or dts.

Okay, when is it not? (specifically please, not "All other cases")

6 channel PCM is not passed through to the optical/coaxial digital outputs. because the transport streams are not capable of carrying this bandwidth.

Hello,

I have a VP30 with the new deinterlacer card that I am using with a Epson 800. I am thinking on using this with a Marantz 12S4 is anybody using this with the 12S4? Is this even needed with the Marantz projector?

Thanks for your reply

rmlowz

Collin posted:

Your confusion is probably coming form the fact that Samsung DLPs have two overscan settings. One which does no scaling yet still has overscan due to physical clipping of the edges of the projected image by the bezel. This is the setting that doesn't stick on HLR & HLS models. The other overscan setting scales the image in the set to create an even higher overscan percentage. This is the default setting. I have no idea why Samsung though this setting was at all desirable.

What is the other Overscan option in the HLS? I am only aware of the one in the SM that doesn't stick. I know that the 720p sets have an expand option in the user menu as well as a overscan setting in the SM. Is this what you are talking about? The HLR/S do not have the expand option in the user menu.

Also based on the checkerboard, horizontal, and vertical patterns from the VP30, it appears that the option that doesn't stick is related to the 1:1 mapping. If I turn it off, I get the correct pattern which indicates to me that the set in doing the correct pixel mapping. The screen basically looks gray. You have to get close up to the screen to see the patterns With the the overscan turned to ON, the patterns change to a pattern of thickly outlined boxes and thicker black vertical and horizotal lines. I assume this means that the DLP is doing some sort of processing to the signal and is not pixel mapping.

Thanks

What is the other Overscan option in the HLS? I am only aware of the one in the SM that doesn't stick. I know that the 720p sets have an expand option in the user menu as well as a overscan setting in the SM. Is this what you are talking about? The HLR/S do not have the expand option in the user menu.

You've found the two settings. The settings are the SMs "Overscan Off" and "Overscan On" settings. The "Overscan Off" setting really means "turn off extra scaling that creates even more overscan". The "Overscan Off" mode puts the set into 1:1 pixel mapping mode with some overscan due to clipping by the bezel which you will want to correct for with the underscan setting on the VP30. Even though it's labeled "Overscan Off" it is not the same thing as 0% overscan like Josh was talking about. With a true 0% overscan set you would not need to use the VP30's underscan setting at all.


Also based on the checkerboard, horizontal, and vertical patterns from the VP30, it appears that the option that doesn't stick is related to the 1:1 mapping. If I turn it off, I get the correct pattern which indicates to me that the set in doing the correct pixel mapping. The screen basically looks gray. You have to get close up to the screen to see the patterns With the the overscan turned to ON, the patterns change to a pattern of thickly outlined boxes and thicker black vertical and horizotal lines. I assume this means that the DLP is doing some sort of processing to the signal and is not pixel mapping.

Thanks

Your assessment of the pixel mapping patterns is right on. The overscan off mode is true pixel mapping. The outlined boxes and thick lines are the telltale signs that the set is doing extra scaling.

- Collin

I just realized that my info screen is not showing the ABT102 anymore. I went back to v1.09 and the same thing. I'm flashing back to 1.08 now to see if the same thing happens. I wonder if the problems I had with the video inputs had something to do with the ABT102?
If the ABT102 is the problem, how long is the warranty on it? I bought it from the first batch with AVS.

Still not showing it with v1.08. What should I do now to get the ABT102 to appear? Nothing has been done to my VP30 since I installed the ABT102 except the firmware update and when I updated to v1.09 or 1.09a it caused some video problems but I wonder if the ABT102 was affected What should be my next course of action?

Dumb suggestion, but as you did not specifically mention it in the above 2 posts, have you done a hard reset as well? Some previous posters have reported that they had to manually do a hard reset to get their VP30 to properly recognise the ABT102.

You've found the two settings. The settings are the SMs "Overscan Off" and "Overscan On" settings. The "Overscan Off" setting really means "turn off extra scaling that creates even more overscan". The "Overscan Off" mode puts the set into 1:1 pixel mapping mode with some overscan due to clipping by the bezel which you will want to correct for with the underscan setting on the VP30. Even though it's labeled "Overscan Off" it is not the same thing as 0% overscan like Josh was talking about. With a true 0% overscan set you would not need to use the VP30's underscan setting at all.

Your assessment of the pixel mapping patterns is right on. The overscan off mode is true pixel mapping. The outlined boxes and thick lines are the telltale signs that the set is doing extra scaling.


OK, I think I got it...if you have an HLP5685w and use the EXPAND mode in the user menu, this will acheive 1x1 PM without going into the SM to turn "overscan off".
Additionally, there isn't any need to use the underscanning function in the VP30.

Dumb suggestion, but as you did not specifically mention it in the above 2 posts, have you done a hard reset as well? Some previous posters have reported that they had to manually do a hard reset to get their VP30 to properly recognise the ABT102.

Hey Phil, silly question, but how do we do a hard reset again?

Will we loose our settings? ( I guess yes...)

Have you tried the 1.09a yet?

I'm still on 1.07, but keen to try the latest one because of the non-linear stretch feature.

Cheers,

Marcelo

OK, I think I got it...if you have an HLP5685w and use the EXPAND mode in the user menu, this will acheive 1x1 PM without going into the SM to turn "overscan off".
Additionally, there isn't any need to use the underscanning function in the VP30.

Close. You are correct that on an HLP the "Expand" setting achieves 1:1 PM without going to the service menu. There will however still be a good amount of overscan and therefore you will probably want to use the underscanning function in the VP30.

- Collin

aaronwt,
I just checked mine and it definitely still shows "v1.09a/ABT-102" when viewing info screen. Also just in case you haven't checked, do you still have the "De-Interlacing" menu enabled in your setup ? If not, is it possible your ABT-102 card has somehow dislodged itself and needs to be re-seated correctly - not very hard to do !

Still not showing it with v1.08. What should I do now to get the ABT102 to appear? Nothing has been done to my VP30 since I installed the ABT102 except the firmware update and when I updated to v1.09 or 1.09a it caused some video problems but I wonder if the ABT102 was affected What should be my next course of action?

Hey Phil, silly question, but how do we do a hard reset again?

Will we loose our settings? ( I guess yes...)

Have you tried the 1.09a yet?

I'm still on 1.07, but keen to try the latest one because of the non-linear stretch feature.

Cheers,

MarceloG'day Marcello - long time no hear!

Pres Menu and Exit buttons simultaneously while plugging the power pack back in. Page 38 of the manual - last of the 3 methods to do a reset.

And yep, you'll loose all your settings. And no, I'm still on Vs 1.07 too - waiting for things to settle down on 1.09a, or maybe wait till 1.1!!

Cheers,

G'day Marcello - long time no hear!

Pres Menu and Exit buttons simultaneously while plugging the power pack back in. Page 38 of the manual - last of the 3 methods to do a reset.

And yep, you'll loose all your settings. And no, I'm still on Vs 1.07 too - waiting for things to settle down on 1.09a, or maybe wait till 1.1!!

Cheers,

thanks Phil - I was just too lazy to look at the manual (yet again). Should have everything memorized soon enoug though.

Cheers,

Marcelo

G'day Marcello - long time no hear!

Pres Menu and Exit buttons simultaneously while plugging the power pack back in. Page 38 of the manual - last of the 3 methods to do a reset.

And yep, you'll loose all your settings. And no, I'm still on Vs 1.07 too - waiting for things to settle down on 1.09a, or maybe wait till 1.1!!

Cheers,

you will loose all the settings doing the upgrade anyway so its not a big deal, Also there have been other hints that a hardreset might help if you have problems so its always a good thing to try.

Daniel.

I just tried the hard reset a couple of times and there is still no change. The ABT102 still isn't showing up. Should I try to reseat it? It had been fine until the 1.09 upgrade and sometime around there it must have disappeared. I didn't really notice it until I went into the deinterlacing menu and I only had 3 options available with 4 grayed out.

mmmm- we seem to be running out of option fast here Aaron. Seems that re-seating the ABT102 would be about the only thing left to do. However, sometimes I've found that leaving the unit powered OFF for some time, say 10 min or more, has enabled me to get out of the dreaded lock-up mode - a hard reset alone was not enough. Best of luck. :)

Josh (and other interested parties),

I was able to get my audio to work on the latest (1.09a) update and seems to be working better then prior versions, still get some static once in a while and a HISS when it locks onto the signal, but other then that I do get audio (stereo and digital audio).

Next, Regarding the "SHAKINESS" of the HDMI output from the Sony DVR, I found a solution. Not sure why it works or even if I have the setting correct but I will await feedback from you to tell me why. The default framerate output from the VP30 is 60HZ LOCKED but I changed it from that to 60HZ UNLOCKED and I no longer have "shakiness" in my picture while utilizing the HDMI from the Sony DVR, also, it did not effect any of the other devices either, so I am happy. Can you explain this? Or maybe I do not understand the setting correctly.

Thanks,

Jim

Josh (and other interested parties),

I was able to get my audio to work on the latest (1.09a) update and seems to be working better then prior versions, still get some static once in a while and a HISS when it locks onto the signal, but other then that I do get audio (stereo and digital audio).

Next, Regarding the "SHAKINESS" of the HDMI output from the Sony DVR, I found a solution. Not sure why it works or even if I have the setting correct but I will await feedback from you to tell me why. The default framerate output from the VP30 is 60HZ LOCKED but I changed it from that to 60HZ UNLOCKED and I no longer have "shakiness" in my picture while utilizing the HDMI from the Sony DVR, also, it did not effect any of the other devices either, so I am happy. Can you explain this? Or maybe I do not understand the setting correctly.

Thanks,

Jim
Not sure if it will answer your question, but the below is an earlier post by Dale Adams explaining the locked and unlocked function

Since there seems to be quite a bit of confusion as to setting up the output frame rate on the VP30, I thought I'd provide a more detailed explanation of just what the various output frame rate options do, as well as a few clarifications:


1) First of all, note that there are separate settings for 60 Hz sources and 50 Hz sources. This allows you, for instance, to configure the VP30's output to behave differently with NTSC and PAL sources. One potential advantage of this is that if you have a display which only works at a single frame rate - say, 60 Hz - that you can have the VP30 run in locked mode (see below) for 60 Hz sources but convert all 50 Hz sources to the 60 Hz frame rate the display needs.


2) Locked mode (1:1). This means that the VP30's output frame rate tracks the input rate - i.e., the output rate is locked to the input rate. In the 1:1 mode - i.e., 60 Hz source-locked to 60 Hz, and 50 Hz source-locked to 50 Hz - there is always exactly one output frame for every input frame/field. This mode has the advantage that there are never any dropped or repeated frames (unless the source itself does this). One disadvantage of this mode is that when the video source is changed, the iScan has to re-lock to the new input signal timing. This causes a disruption in the VP30's output signal while the locking process occurs, and can cause many displays to loose sync to the VP30's signal and temporarily blank.


3) Unlocked mode. This means that the VP30's output frame rate is independent of the input rate. Regardless of any variations in the input, the output frame rate will be fixed at the specified value. This mode results in the most stable output signal as it's independent of any changes in the input signal. Unlike the locked mode(s), the VP30's output signal timing will not be disrupted when the input source is changed. However, it's guaranteed to cause dropped or repeated frames as the input and output frame rates are not the same. Note that regardless of what number the unlocked output frame rate is set to, it will never be identical to the input rate in this mode as the output signal timing is independent of the input timing. These dropped/repeated frames can result in visible irregularities in smooth motion, sometimes called motion judder or stutter.


4) Locked mode (2:2 or 3:3). For standard definition interlaced sources the VP30 can detect 2:2 and 3:2 pulldown cadences and convert these to either a 2:2 or 3:3 frame repetition rate. The main advantage of this is for 60 Hz sources using 3:2 pulldown, as the irregular 3:2 pattern can be converted to 2:2 at 48 Hz or 3:3 at 72 Hz. In these modes, each original film frame is repeated exactly 2 or 3 times, respectively, and motion is therefore smoother. Note that these modes are only useful when the video source is film-based - i.e., 3:2 pulldown for 24 Hz film on 60 Hz sources, and 2:2 pulldown for 25 Hz film on 50 Hz sources. If the source is not film-based, then the end result is a lot like unlocked mode without that mode's stability advantages.


5) Motion-judder test pattern. The VP30 has a built-in test pattern generator to help you determine which frame rates your display supports. This is the test pattern with the vertical bar which pans horizontally back and forth across the screen. Note that this test pattern is used to determine the capabilities of your display, and does not provide any indication of motion smoothness (or lack thereof) in the iScan's output. The test pattern is used with the unlocked output mode of the VP30. You set the (unlocked) output frame rate to be the one you're testing your display for, and observe if the back and forth panning motion of the test pattern is smooth or if it jerks or stutters. If the former, then the display supports that particular resolution and frame rate without performing any frame rate conversion of its own; if the latter, then the display is performing frame rate conversion on the signal.


6) Examples. These configuration options provide a lot of flexibility to deal with differing source and display characteristics. Let's look at a few examples:

a) The display only supports 60 Hz input. In this case, the VP30 must produce a (nominal) 60 Hz output. For 60 Hz sources you can run in either 1:1 source-locked mode, or in unlocked mode with the output frame rate set to approximately 60 Hz. You might choose unlocked mode if the display takes a long time to re-sync to new inputs and you channel-surf a lot. Locked mode will provide the smoothest motion and guarantee no dropped or repeated frames. For 50 Hz sources, you'd set the VP30's output to unlocked with a (nominal) 60 Hz frame rate. This will result in some motion irregularities as the VP30 periodically repeats frames to convert the 50 Hz input to the 60 Hz output rate, but since the display only supports 60 Hz inputs there's not much you can do.

b) The display only supports 50 Hz input. This is the opposite of case A, and the required configuration is also the opposite - i.e., the output frame rate for 60 Hz source should be set to 50 Hz unlocked, and the rate for 50 Hz sources can be set to either 1:1 locked or unlocked at 50 Hz (for all the same reasons noted in the first example).

c) The display supports a wide range of frame rates (e.g., a CRT projector). In this case you can configure things most any way you like. If motion judder with 3:2 pulldown bothers you, then use the VP30's 48 Hz or 72 Hz source-locked output options for film-based 480i sources. If not, then 60 Hz locked is a good choice. For 50 Hz sources, unless you notice display flicker at 50 Hz, you'd probably want to run at 50 Hz locked to avoid repeated/dropped frames.

d) A digital display supports a narrow range of frame rates, either around 50 Hz or 72/75 Hz. If the display supports both 50 Hz and 48 Hz, and the primary use of 60 Hz source is film-based material, then you would likely want to configure the VP30 as 48 Hz source-locked for 60 Hz sources, and 50 Hz locked (or unlocked, if desired) for 50 Hz sources. If the higher frame rate (72/75) is desired or required, then both source types can be configured for the 3:3 source-locked output option. For non-film material you may find that there's too much motion stutter, although that tends to be a very personal thing as not everyone perceives this the same way (as with low frame rate display flicker).


- Dale Adams

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6985487&highlight=unlocked#post6985487
New DVDO iScan VP30 - AVS Forum

Thanks keenan, I missed that topic in this thread, but since my projector does take a little bit to resync, it seems like the best setting my for me.

Jim

Hi to everybody,
This is the first message in this forum.
I've got 3 problems:
The first is my english. I hope you will excuse the error that certainly I'll do. I'm italian (soccer world champions!!!!! :D ) and I'm not use to write in english....
The second and the third problems are with my new purchase: 4 days ago I bought a DVDO VP30 + ABT102 + SDI module.
My line up is composed by a LCD Projector (Epson TW200, I dont know if the name is the same in USA) and a Denon DVD 2900 mod. SDI. The TW200 doesn't have a digital input, but only a VGA.
However the images are fantastic, almost quite HD materials, with PAL films and I am enthusiastic...
But those aren't the cause of my post...
I said I've a problem, two problems...
I wasn't able to view my laptop, conecting in VGA-->5 BNC. I know that the VP30 nedeed two different framerate from PAL input and PC input.... But all my attempt failed... can you give me some help??? :o
The other problem is the DVD that is included in the package of ABT102: it's a NTSC dvd and if I use it for testing the VP30 the results are not good: I have many flikering and also some artefacts, but I hope that is not for the work of ABT102 but for the player optimized for PAL....
Thanks for everyone will help me.... :)
bye

Mauro - congrats on your team, and on your purchase. :)

Don't know about the dvd; would imagine it is the NSTC/Pal problem that you suspect.

As for your laptop, the VP30 only accepts a few resolutions from your pc, via the rgbhv input. Try it at a low/easy res, say 800 x 600, or even 640x480. If that doesn't work, and you are using an ATI card, go into the display/moniters menu, go to troubleshooting, and check the "force 720p" mode. That always "wakes" up my VP30. One last thing, if that doesn't work, double check that H and V aren't switched. That can also give no display. (duh.) Hope that helps.

thank you jon I will attempt to do your suggests.
The strange thing is that the LED of the VP30 is blue and not green how the manual say for signals unknown....
I also see, connecting directly laptop to TW200, that the true framerate is 61,47.
I attempted to force this value but the results was the some: a blue screen....
However I will "play" with the controls....
bye

At least on both of mine, I have had to force 720p before the unit would acknowledge an input. Mine also had the blue light - that most likely indicates that you are feeding it a resolution that it does not support. The good news is that once the unit does accept signal from your laptop, it should continue to do so until the next firmware update.

That is one more thing you might want to check on - if your unit has an older firmware, you may want to update it now, before you get all of your memories and settings done, since updates erase all data. Good luck.

Hello to all people, my first post, and i'm Italian too :)

One of my customer bought new Pioneer Plasma PDP-5000EX with 1920 x 1080 panel, and has a VP30 + ABT102 with 1.09a firmware

I know that VP30 is only able to scale and do FRC for HD input signals as 1080i broadcasted by SkyHD, but seems that setting 1080p @60Hz output it also deinterlace

substitute web with ht.tp cause antispam blocks links to imageshack

web://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dvdo1gx5.jpg

Plasma menu shows that in input there is a 1080p signal

web://img56.imageshack.us/img56/1862/dvdo2fi1.th.jpg

Someone explane me what's really happens? :)

Thank You
Paolo

PS: hello mauro, i'm "The Believer" on avmagazine ;)

PPS: Champions of the world :cool: :D

I hope some of you can offer suggestions as to what might be causing these problems when using my 1080i satellite HD box with the VP30.

The box has five output jacks that can be used for RGBHV, or three of them for component YPbPr (much like the VP30 RGBHV/Component analog output). However, on the sat HD box, you must actually flip a switch to choose whether it is using all five jacks (for RGBHV) or just three of them (for component YPbPr).

Both switch positions work with the RGBHV input of the VP30, which correctly recognizes whether the input is RGB or YPbPr. However, there are two problems:

1) There are intermittent dropouts (i.e., the picture goes to black for an instant) with both the RGBHV and YPbPr outputs.

2) The YPbPR output does not work with any other VP30 component inputs.

if I connect the 3-wire YPbPr component jacks to the VP30 Component 1 or 2 inputs, the VP30 can't detect any signal at all.

It seems strange to me that the component output only works with the VP30 RGBHV/Component 3 input. I've used the cable and the Component 1 and 2 inputs with other sources without problems.

aaronwt,
I just checked mine and it definitely still shows "v1.09a/ABT-102" when viewing info screen. Also just in case you haven't checked, do you still have the "De-Interlacing" menu enabled in your setup ? If not, is it possible your ABT-102 card has somehow dislodged itself and needs to be re-seated correctly - not very hard to do !
That was the problem. Somehow it had been dislodged. I have no idea how but it was sitting completely off the connector. The standoff was still in place though. I wonder if this was somehow the cause of my video problems earlier? But I don't know how it became dislodged since it has always been kept level. Well anyway at least it's working now. Eliab is coming here on Wednesday for my yearly recalibration so I defintely needed that ABT102 working for my SD sources.

I hope some of you can offer suggestions as to what might be causing these problems when using my 1080i satellite HD box with the VP30.

The box has five output jacks that can be used for RGBHV, or three of them for component YPbPr (much like the VP30 RGBHV/Component analog output). However, on the sat HD box, you must actually flip a switch to choose whether it is using all five jacks (for RGBHV) or just three of them (for component YPbPr).

Both switch positions work with the RGBHV input of the VP30, which correctly recognizes whether the input is RGB or YPbPr. However, there are two problems:

1) There are intermittent dropouts (i.e., the picture goes to black for an instant) with both the RGBHV and YPbPr outputs.

2) The YPbPR output does not work with any other VP30 component inputs.



Which satellite box is this (DirecTV/DISH and model #)? What software version do you currently have installed? Do you know if this same issue is on the S-Video/Composite inputs?

Next, Regarding the "SHAKINESS" of the HDMI output from the Sony DVR, I found a solution. Not sure why it works or even if I have the setting correct but I will await feedback from you to tell me why. The default framerate output from the VP30 is 60HZ LOCKED but I changed it from that to 60HZ UNLOCKED and I no longer have "shakiness" in my picture while utilizing the HDMI from the Sony DVR, also, it did not effect any of the other devices either, so I am happy. Can you explain this? Or maybe I do not understand the setting correctly.


Were you ever able to get a picture before v1.08 (IIRC that is the version that worked best for you)? I am curious if this shakiness just started of if was there before.

Have any of your other sources exhibited this shakiness or is it completely isolated to the DVR? Framerate is an output adjustment (iScan -> Display) which intuitively would make it seem that all of your sources would be affected.

I should note that I have stated previously that I will not comment on future features.

I understand your frustration so I will comment on our intentions when it comes to adding pass-through functionality to the VP30. We intend on adding pass-through to the VP30 in the next couple of months. I will verify next week if there are any limitations to this feature, rather than overstate the capabilties now.

HDMI audio is passed to the digital outputs if the input signal is 2 channel PCM, DD or dts.

Both digital audio outputs are active at the same time.

Thanks for the answer. I understand about the no comments on future releases, but since you did post the article promising it onn your own website, I felt it was only fair to ask if it was really going to happen and when.

I have not delved into HDCP enough to know if it is part of Video and Audio protection, but assume from what I have read so far that it effects both, and hence my question, If it does not then I appologise for my repeated question.

CURRENT FIRMWARE QUESTION
So that myself as well as everyone else interested is clear, what you are saying is that 5.1 Dolby Digital (and DTS) from HDMI inputs is ALWAYS passed to the digital outputs (as encoded to be decoded by receiver), even when the stream is HDCP right?

1080P QUESTION (for your verifying statement you promised to give next week)
Do you envisage any problems doing the above too when you pass-through 1080P?

aaronwt,
Good to hear you resolved that issue !
Seems to me that many people are scared of applying undue force when pressing down on connector to attach ABT-102 card. Justifiably so I guess, but a good first point for fault finding if your card is playing up.
That was the problem. Somehow it had been dislodged. I have no idea how but it was sitting completely off the connector. The standoff was still in place though. I wonder if this was somehow the cause of my video problems earlier? But I don't know how it became dislodged since it has always been kept level. Well anyway at least it's working now. Eliab is coming here on Wednesday for my yearly recalibration so I defintely needed that ABT102 working for my SD sources.

Mine also had the blue light - that most likely indicates that you are feeding it a resolution that it does not support.
OK, I understand. The manual instead say if the signal is unknown the light must be green... However this night I continue my test (yesterday I preferred ti watch "cindarella man" ;) )

That is one more thing you might want to check on - if your unit has an older firmware, you may want to update it now, before you get all of your memories and settings done, since updates erase all data. Good luck.

The firmware is the 1.07. I'll wait that the new one will be a "official" version and not beta....

PS: hello mauro, i'm "The Believer" on avmagazine ;)

Ciao The believer, we will meet on the Italian forum ;)

Which satellite box is this (DirecTV/DISH and model #)?

The box is a Motorola/GI HDD-200 driven by a Mot/GI DSR-922 (C-band 4DTV).

What software version do you currently have installed?

Software is 1.07 with ABT102 card.

Do you know if this same issue is on the S-Video/Composite inputs?

The HDD-200 does not have S-Video or Composite outputs.

(BTW, if you don't have this sat equipment and would like to test it with the VP30, I'm about 15 minutes from your office.)

(BTW, if you don't have this sat equipment and would like to test it with the VP30, I'm about 15 minutes from your office.)

You say you get at least some picture via the RGBHV input when the Sat box is set to Component output, what does the VP30 Info page say for the input timings?

OK, I understand. The manual instead say if the signal is unknown the light must be green... However this night I continue my test (yesterday I preferred ti watch "cindarella man" ;) )



The firmware is the 1.07. I'll wait that the new one will be a "official" version and not beta....

I think the RGBHV PC mode inputs on the VP30 only work at 60Hz (unlike most displays that can accept a range from say 60-120Hz). Laptop video cards can be very difficult to control but you can try updating the drivers. As it most probably doesn't have DVI output you probably won't be able to find any HD mode options (i.e. 720p output) which as mentioned will normally work first time.

There was also a firmware version that didn't work with SXGA input but I can't remember if that was before or after 1.07.

Were you ever able to get a picture before v1.08 (IIRC that is the version that worked best for you)? I am curious if this shakiness just started of if was there before.



I was able to get a picture from v.1.07 ON and shakiness occured with all versions untill I changed the lock to unlocked.


Have any of your other sources exhibited this shakiness or is it completely isolated to the DVR? Framerate is an output adjustment (iScan -> Display) which intuitively would make it seem that all of your sources would be affected.

I've only tried 2 sources so far, I still need to try the OPPO 970 to verify and since the VP30 does not accept a 1280x768 source, my 2 HTPC's and MyHD card will not be effected since I need to purchase a HDMI switcher/splitter to accomodate NATIVE switching. ( Am I correct that DVDO is not going to do an upgrade to allow a 1280x768 input resoltution?)

Jim

I think the RGBHV PC mode inputs on the VP30 only work at 60Hz (unlike most displays that can accept a range from say 60-120Hz). Laptop video cards can be very difficult to control but you can try updating the drivers. As it most probably doesn't have DVI output you probably won't be able to find any HD mode options (i.e. 720p output) which as mentioned will normally work first time.

uhmmmm
Update drivers is not possible (the laptop is owned by my Company), DVI is non available, then my only possibility is to continue my attempt with resolution/fremerate....
Ok Thanks ;)

There was also a firmware version that didn't work with SXGA input but I can't remember if that was before or after 1.07.

I reported that bug to ABT. I found it in 1.07.

I was told by ABT that it had not been a bug in 1.05. It was eventually fixed in 1.09.

little of topic:
Have a 622 receiver from DN and the audio is way out. Version 1.09a lip sync only goes to -6. For the guys using older firmware what does the lip sync (negative) go to? I sent a email to the DVDO guys but probably won't hear back for a while. Thanks.

Hi all, I apologize in advance for the newby question but I have searched for the answer.
I've been setting up my VP30 &102 card, I'm using it with a panny PHD50 with a RGBHV blade (TY-42TM6Y). Now the picture looks OK with 1080i, 720 etc output settings but I can't get 1:1 pixel match, I've tried hor, ver size & shift. I emailed DVDO who have told me I can't get 1:1 pixel match with the RGBHV blade only with a DVI blade (digital). Has anyone any suggestion as I don't wan't to buy another blade & cable ?

little of topic:
Have a 622 receiver from DN and the audio is way out. Version 1.09a lip sync only goes to -6. For the guys using older firmware what does the lip sync (negative) go to? I sent a email to the DVDO guys but probably won't hear back for a while. Thanks.

When the lipsync slider bar is adjusted all the way to the extreme left, the user is choosing to pass through the audio with no delay. In your scenario, when the audio and video are automatically synched up by the VP30 the amount of delay put on the audio is 6ms. It is not possible to increase the amount of 'negative delay' because this would requiring putting more delay on the video.

What input resolution are you running to the VP30 when the above happens? What output resolution/framerate are you running to your display from the VP30?

Am I correct that DVDO is not going to do an upgrade to allow a 1280x768 input resoltution?)


We do not have plans to support this capability, but we are working on pass-through capability.

I've got some of the older discrete aspect ratio codes, but I don't think I ever saw the codes posted for the following newer options :

4:3 Stretch
IAR Presets 5, 6, 7, 8 , 9 & 10

Josh, can you post these codes? (Or can someone point me at them if I missed them)

- Collin

I reported that bug to ABT. I found it in 1.07.

I was told by ABT that it had not been a bug in 1.05. It was eventually fixed in 1.09.
Ok, but my PC is set to XGA.... I suspect what is my problem: I don't understand in which mode I must set the VP30 :eek: :eek: .

Someone can say if the correct way is the one that now I believe is right?

I have an LCD 1280x720
I have a dvd player with SDI (PAL)

I set the output 720p 50Hz


If I want to see the lap top (it works around 60 hz) I must set the VP30

720P 60Hz

than I must find if setting framerate and other controls I can display it on the screen....

Is this correct?
thanks everybody ;)

@maurocip

If i understand you correctly you have a working image with your sdi player. If that is the case don't change the output if it works it works for other inputs. Example

I also use sdi 50hz on a 1280x720@hz display

So my output format is 1280x720P50hz. But even then you can 'control' the framerate under the 'framerate' option if needed it defaults to 59.97hz (even for pal) unlocked.

Now adding a laptop can be done in 2 ways analog (vga) or dvi -> hdmi i would go for the last option your laptop probably has a dvi out. use a dvi->hdmi cable and select for example 1280x720@60hz as output signal. Same for v ga should work but i would not do that if you can.

now if you select that input (example hdmi 1) you will see
in the info screen : sxga-60hz, rgb (for example). But the output format is _still_ 1280x720@50hz.

Now under framerate (output window) you will see that the framerate changed from 50hz to 60hz and you can set it to the speed you want/need (if you don't get a image).

Hope this helps,

Daniel.

thank you Daniel
but I use the RGBHV (my laptop doesn't allow DVI)

But I don't understand. You say:

If that is the case don't change the output if it works it works for other inputs.

Initially I suppose I must do that.

But then you say:

use a dvi->hdmi cable and select for example 1280x720@60hz as output signal. Same for v ga should work but i would not do that if you can.


What you do for DVI is the same thing I suppose for the RGBHV.

Infact I suppose that the only way is to use 720p 60Hz.....


Can you explain what I didn' understand?
May I set 720p 60Hz or not in the output format? :rolleyes:
Thanks ;)

thank you Daniel
Can you explain what I didn' understand?
May I set 720p 60Hz or not in the output format? :rolleyes:
Thanks ;)

You should only set the output to a format or format(s) that work ! for your display. Example in my case i allways set my output to 1280x720p50hz but if feeding pal (50hz) the framerate option is on 50hz locked, when feeding NTSC/HTPC its on 60hz locked. But if your display only takes 60hz (for example) you must make sure that the framerate reflects that.

Daniel.

You should only set the output to a format or format(s) that work ! for your display.
Ok my projector supporth both.
This evening I'll tray to create a 720p output profile for the laptop....
Thank you for your help :)

Josh, based upon your statement that you will not be supporting 1280x768 in; I guess you will have to go through your Ad copy and change from "any resolution in to any resolution out" to read "almost any resolution in to ..." (:-)

Still planning on a 1.10 beta for this week?, I am waiting as I did not install 1.09a

Hello to all people, my first post, and i'm Italian too :)

One of my customer bought new Pioneer Plasma PDP-5000EX with 1920 x 1080 panel, and has a VP30 + ABT102 with 1.09a firmware

I know that VP30 is only able to scale and do FRC for HD input signals as 1080i broadcasted by SkyHD, but seems that setting 1080p @60Hz output it also deinterlace



I'm wondering there are still no response, if needs further explications please ask

Josh, based upon your statement that you will not be supporting 1280x768 in; I guess you will have to go through your Ad copy and change from "any resolution in to any resolution out" to read "almost any resolution in to ..." (:-)



No points for that, Barry - we've been whining about that bit of misinformation for monthes now.

But yes, Josh - at least, please enable a pass thru. Assuming a pass-thru means I can feed ANY resolution from my computer to the rgb inputs, and at least get an rgbhv signal out, to my projector. Right now I have compromised my entire system, sending the output of the VP to a Sony switcher, just so I can feed my computer's output to my projector, without switching my desktop res to an arbitrarily and abysmally low resolution. :(

I've got some of the older discrete aspect ratio codes, but I don't think I ever saw the codes posted for the following newer options :

4:3 Stretch
IAR Presets 5, 6, 7, 8 , 9 & 10

Josh, can you post these codes? (Or can someone point me at them if I missed them)


One of the projects that I am working on this week is updating all of the discrete codes on our website. This should be taken care of by Friday at the latest.

One of the projects that I am working on this week is updating all of the discrete codes on our website. This should be taken care of by Friday at the latest.

Great! Will there be an accompanying bug-fix in the FW, as it is has been pointed out by others that many discrete codes quickly stop working after power-cycling the VP30?

When the lipsync slider bar is adjusted all the way to the extreme left, the user is choosing to pass through the audio with no delay. In your scenario, when the audio and video are automatically synched up by the VP30 the amount of delay put on the audio is 6ms. It is not possible to increase the amount of 'negative delay' because this would requiring putting more delay on the video.

What input resolution are you running to the VP30 when the above happens? What output resolution/framerate are you running to your display from the VP30?

Thanks for the reply Josh. I'm going out of the 622 at 720P (also tried 1080i) and out of the VP30 at 720p to a Z4 - 60hz locked.

In the 622, the user has the option for HD or SD audio sync. I've tried both. Seems the SD is better but not perfect. Also, using HDMI for video and optical for the audio.

Has anyone been able to get their VP30 to work with the Harmony 880 remote?

Has anyone been able to get their VP30 to work with the Harmony 880 remote?
Yes, although it depends on what you want to do. When I first got the VP30 there wasn't any codes at Harmony, (there may be now,) so I just learned all the ones I wanted. It works fine.

Has anyone been able to get their VP30 to work with the Harmony 880 remote?

Yup, my current remote is a Harmony 890. I like it once they got the RF bugs worked out. The VP30 profile was incomplete last I checked, so I just trained the missing codes from the original remote. Another annoyance is that hex codes can't be added by users. They say to email tech support, but that seems to be a black hole. The Harmony can learn discretes from my Pronto, so I just train it that way. Why they don't actually leverage the internet to create a user contributed database of codes (ala Gracenote/CDDB) is beyond me.

- Collin

Thanks for the replies from my earlier post. I went with the 890 as well for the rf signal and it works great with the vp30.

Jeremy

You say you get at least some picture via the RGBHV input when the Sat box is set to Component output, what does the VP30 Info page say for the input timings?

I actually get an excellent picture with both of the output devices I use, except for the intermittent instantaneous blackouts.

For the analaog output device (computer LCD panel), the Info screen says:

Resolution: 12380x1024p
Frame rate: 59.94 (locked)
Line rate: 64.195 KHz
Pixel rate: 107.849 MHz

One of the projects that I am working on this week is updating all of the discrete codes on our website. This should be taken care of by Friday at the latest.

Great! Will you also update the RS-232 protocol?

Great! Will you also update the RS-232 protocol?

Yes, we will update the serial protocl document as well. For discrete IR we have an Excel-based IR Generator that allows you to put any Command/Value from the protocol in to the correct cells and you'll get the hex code. This tool allows access to any discrete IR code which should be very powerful to those who use macros. We are looking into the issue with response to discrete IR codes, or lack there of.

Yes, we will update the serial protocl document as well. For discrete IR we have an Excel-based IR Generator that allows you to put any Command/Value from the protocol in to the correct cells and you'll get the hex code. This tool allows access to any discrete IR code which should be very powerful to those who use macros. We are looking into the issue with response to discrete IR codes, or lack there of.

Outstanding!!!

Great news indeed. I saw the document on DVDO's website with the hex for the various direct profiles. Is there a minimum firmware required to use these?

I'm wondering there are still no response, if needs further explications please ask

:(

I'm wondering there are still no response, if needs further explications please ask

I am not clear what your question/concern is.

The iScan VP30 can output 1080p when the input signal is 1080i. The process by which this is done is not technically deinterlacing although some refer to it as 'bob deinterlacing'. This method by which this is done is called field scaling, each individual field is scaled to the desired output resolution.

I am not clear what your question/concern is.

The iScan VP30 can output 1080p when the input signal is 1080i. The process by which this is done is not technically deinterlacing although some refer to it as 'bob deinterlacing'. This method by which this is done is called field scaling, each individual field is scaled to the desired output resolution.

Thank you Josh, now it's clear, that's all i need to know

I know what is BOB, and i suppose VP30 works in this manner, and now i have confirmation

Regards

Paolo

I just had my Samsung recalibrated with all my sources going through the VP30. (HD DVD is literally amazing now)I'm using firmware version 1.09a. Will the future firmware updates affect anything with the way it displays the picture.

Aaron there is always the possibility of that, although very unlikely

-Gary

The iScan VP30 can output 1080p when the input signal is 1080i. The process by which this is done is not technically deinterlacing although some refer to it as 'bob deinterlacing'. This method by which this is done is called field scaling, each individual field is scaled to the desired output resolution.
very interesting!!!!
In these days in italian forums we discuss if is possible to use VP30 for HD source.
I am one of the first italian owner of this processor, but I'm not so expert.

If I understand you (I dont' know BOB deinterlacing), if I want to use VP30 to keep signal 1080i and to have a 1080p output, I can......
...and if I want to downscale a HD input, like 720p I also can.....

It is true?

very interesting!!!!
In these days in italian forums we discuss if is possible to use VP30 for HD source.
I am one of the first italian owner of this processor, but I'm not so expert.

If I understand you (I dont' know BOB deinterlacing), if I want to use VP30 to keep signal 1080i and to have a 1080p output, I can......
...and if I want to downscale a HD input, like 720p I also can.....

It is true?

yes its just that the way its converted from 1080i->1080p or from 1080i->anyformat is not among the best ways. Its still better than alot of displays do themselfs but just not the best you can buy anymore.

Daniel.

yes its just that the way its converted from 1080i->1080p or from 1080i->anyformat is not among the best ways.
Not the best way is better that no way! :D


Its still better than alot of displays do themselfs but just not the best you can buy anymore.

For me is however a good news.
I know that the best way is a interlacer that allows HD signals, but I bought VP30 for SD signal and my fear it is not able to be used for HD signals.
In Italy we only have HD pay TV (but I'm not interested) and I'll waiting for the HD-DVD or BR.
Now I'm sure that is better to use VP30 to downscale that the player like toshiba.....
It' right?

In post above I put a link that simply explane deinterlace methods

I think only VP that can deinterlace HD signals is Vantage HD, but it lacks a very important feature like Frame Rate Conversion

There are concrete possibilities to add HD signals deinterlacing on VP30 (also adding a new board)?

Here is a simple explanation of deinterlacing

Deinterlacing (http://www.100fps.com/)

Mauro, BTW, also HD+ has this functionality, actually i feed my HD+ with SkyHD 1080i signal, and output a 1024x768 @60Hz to match my display and this works fine.

Sure BOB is not the best method of deinterlacing, but i think that VP30 or HD+ can do better than most of displays

In post above I put a link that simply explane deinterlace methods

I think only VP that can deinterlace HD signals is Vantage HD, but it lacks a very important feature like Frame Rate Conversion

There are concrete possibilities to add HD signals deinterlacing on VP30 (also adding a new board)?

No the vp30 is limited in its hardware they can't add it. So we will have to upgrade to the next model.

Also alot of other boxes can do more advanched deinterlacing (all realta and gennum based ones and all the lumagens). the Vantage HD uses the realta chip.

Daniel.

I know our VP30s do a bob / weave operation currently due to hardware issues on 1080i signals. Could they do a pure weave on a 1080i signal if so programmed?

I know our VP30s do a bob / weave operation currently due to hardware issues on 1080i signals. Could they do a pure weave on a 1080i signal if so programmed?

The VP30 doesn't bob/weave 1080i. It field-scales each individual 1920x540 field to the final resolution. There's no weaving at all.

Hi Josh

I was inputting the new discrete IR codes from your website
into my Crestron System. I found an error.

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/IRcodes-isvp30.html

The Cue_Off Code has a missing digit.

IT SHOULD BE --
Cue

Off:
0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

We are still working on the updated IR/Serial protocol and we may not have this live until first thing next week, but we are still trying to get it up today. Thanks for your patience.

Thanks drhankz, I'll make sure that is corrected.

Hi Josh,


I was wondering... how do I bypass the scaler in the Pioneer PRO-FHD1 when using the iScanVP30? Service menu?

I can get the DVDO to look great on my Fujistu P50XTA51UB because I can bypass it on that TV.

Do you guys have any experience or problems when using the iScan in conjunction with the PRO-FHD1? So far it looks like poo and I'm kind've disappointed :\

There should be a mode called 'Dot-by-Dot' which will allow you to bypass the internal processing. Have you tried that?

Sorry... I'm a n00b and still learning this, but where is that option? I also have the new firmware installed so I also think some menu items have changed (i.e. gamma correction)

On the VP30 you should have the output set to 1080p (Output Setup->Format->1080p-60).

On the Pioneer you need to select 'Dot-by-Dot' mode which should be accessible via the 'Aspect' button on the remote.

Awesome! Looks a lot better now, I can see the on pixel, off pixel, but if I stand back like 5 feet, I can still see the white 'squares' in the checkboard test pattern.

Almost there!

Thanks Josh!

Also, do you hapeen to know the native resolution on the FHD1? Should I increase the H-size and V-size til the TV goes out, or just leave it at 1080p60? Right now, I put the H-size to 2060 and it hasn't gone out on me yet.

The VP30 doesn't bob/weave 1080i. It field-scales each individual 1920x540 field to the final resolution. There's no weaving at all.

so why did Aaron at DVDO say

To deinterlace 1080i, the VP30 does use the "Bob and Weave" ?

Also, do you hapeen to know the native resolution on the FHD1? Should I increase the H-size and V-size til the TV goes out, or just leave it at 1080p60? Right now, I put the H-size to 2060 and it hasn't gone out on me yet.

1080p60 = 1920 pixels x 1080 pixels @ 60Hz

The FHD1 is a 1080p display (1920 pixels x 1080 pixels) that accepts 24Hz, 48Hz, 50Hz, and 60Hz signals.

There should be no reason to adjust the horizontal resolution. You may want to try the sync polarity (Output Setup->Sync Type->Try all of the options). If you could email me a picture of the white 'squares' that you see on the checkerboard test pattern (Josh@dvdo.com) I may be able to tell you what you are seeing.

Hey guys looking into getting one of these for my setup but not sure what to expect. I have a sharp aquos 37D7U. Hooked up to it I have a Onkyo DV-SP1000, scientific atlanta 8300HD, Xbox 360, Gamecube, PS2, and soon to get the Toshiba HD-A1. I want to get the VP30 have my HD-A1, SP1000, 8300HD hooked up via HDMI and then all my game systems via component. Then have the VP30 hooked up to the TV via a HDMI to DVI cable (so I can get dot to dot via PC mode) and then have the audio go out to my reciever. Oh and how will the VP30 handle HD signals, like my 360 and HD-A1? Will it just pass them through to the TV or up them to 1366 x768? I assume with my SP1000 I leave the upconverting off and let the VP30 do the work. Does that sound right? What about the 8300HD casue it sends out HD and SD (I have it set for 480p SD and 720P HD).

What am I to expect PQ wise, my biggest complaint is SD cable the PQ sucks and of course some of my older game systems that I have sitting in the closet (n64, dreamcast, sega saturn, etc). Will I notice a significant improvements?


Thanks for any info guys I have looked at most of the reviews and spec sheets just want to hear some opinions from owners. Sorry for all the questions, not much info on with these suckers hooked up to an aqous :)

Hey guys looking into getting one of these for my setup but not sure what to expect. I have a sharp aquos 37D7U. Hooked up to it I have a Onkyo DV-SP1000, scientific atlanta 8300HD, Xbox 360, Gamecube, PS2, and soon to get the Toshiba HD-A1. I want to get the VP30 have my HD-A1, SP1000, 8300HD hooked up via HDMI and then all my game systems via component. Then have the VP30 hooked up to the TV via a HDMI to DVI cable (so I can get dot to dot via PC mode) and then have the audio go out to my reciever. Oh and how will the VP30 handle HD signals, like my 360 and HD-A1? Will it just pass them through to the TV or up them to 1366 x768? I assume with my SP1000 I leave the upconverting off and let the VP30 do the work. Does that sound right? What about the 8300HD casue it sends out HD and SD (I have it set for 480p SD and 720P HD).

What am I to expect PQ wise, my biggest complaint is SD cable the PQ sucks and of course some of my older game systems that I have sitting in the closet (n64, dreamcast, sega saturn, etc). Will I notice a significant improvements?


Thanks for any info guys I have looked at most of the reviews and spec sheets just want to hear some opinions from owners. Sorry for all the questions, not much info on with these suckers hooked up to an aqous :)

I don't have an aquos, however in general, video processors are fantastic for 1) large screens and/or 2) displays with poor video processing.

eg: Fujitsu plasmas or NEC or pioneer elite models, have top notch video processors - so the improvement may not always be amazing - but a VP will be better in most cases.

Screens smaller then 50" still show improvement obviously, but on 50" plus screens (and PJs) the improvement is really obvious because of the size of the image....

Depends on the person, but for me I would use a VP on 37" plus screen ... it would be great if you could test it first to have realistic expectations on improvement of the PQ.

Cheers,

Marcelo

_.dstrukt.nine,

A couple of nights ago, I was working on the Pioneer pro 5000 (the European version of the FHD1). Had no problem in obtaining Native res at 50Hz and 60Hz.

I used the 1080P settings on the VP30, and then flipped through the display's aspect ratios until it reaches "dot by dot". At that point, I think one of the back porch settings needed to be changed (vertical or horizontal, I can't recall), but I got perfect native rate.

Has anyone had any problems with 1.09a?

waiting for 1.1, but if no issues with 1.09a, I may use it as I would really like the non-linear stretch ...

Cheers,

Marcelo

Hai,

Its not perfect but as far as i can see its the best release sofar.

Daniel.

Hai,

Its not perfect but as far as i can see its the best release sofar.

Daniel.
thanks Daniel, I'll install it tomorrow.

Cheers,

Marcelo

A couple of nights ago, I was working on the Pioneer pro 5000 (the European version of the FHD1).
Would you mind posting a little comment about how the Pioneer compares to the "usual" NEC and Panasonic commercial plasmas? Thanks!

P.S: Or perhaps you could drop a comment in the following thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=702398

Has anyone had any problems with 1.09a?I haven't had a single glitch with 1.09a and I'm usually the guy with all the problems.

Josh, Any word on 1.10?

Has anyone had any problems with 1.09a?
waiting for 1.1, but if no issues with 1.09a, I may use it as I would really like the non-linear stretch ...
Cheers,
Marcelo

I tried it and had what I thought were some slightly degraded images (might have been my eyes and recollection of the old firmware - no way to actually compare), and I had a few audio drops. It was enough to scare me back to 1.07 which had worked pretty well to now. I think I'll wait out the betas for now.

Anybody out there have deinterlacing problems with the VP30+ABT102 (v1.09a) using the HDMI input while running 480i? I have a Scientific Atlanta explorer 3250HD STB and when I try to run at native mode, the 480i channels look terribly deinterlaced but the HD channels look fine. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Laggs

Anybody out there have deinterlacing problems with the VP30+ABT102 (v1.09a) using the HDMI input while running 480i? I have a Scientific Atlanta explorer 3250HD STB and when I try to run at native mode, the 480i channels look terribly deinterlaced but the HD channels look fine. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Laggs

Have you tried a factory default to see if that alleviates the problem?

You may also want to press the 'Info' button on the remote control to bring up the 'Info Screen' to verify what resolution the VP30 is receiving.

how to setup in denon 2910 sdi to sdi output?
anybody knows?

Anybody out there have deinterlacing problems with the VP30+ABT102 (v1.09a) using the HDMI input while running 480i? I have a Scientific Atlanta explorer 3250HD STB and when I try to run at native mode, the 480i channels look terribly deinterlaced but the HD channels look fine. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Laggs


Are you sure it is outputting 480i? Hit the info button on the VP30 to see what the cable box is sending to the VP30. Sounds like it is using the internal scaler of the cable box.

jswamy ,

you mean convert it to SDI, or get an SDI modded unit to output it?

If it's SDI modded, setting it up to 480i/576i should be enough to get it to start working (assuming the mod was done correctly).

Correct. The improvements a VP30/ABT102 will make on a display that allows 1:1 pixel mapping with 0% overscan are larger than a display that requires the user to use underscan on the VP30 to compensate for overscan on the display. There is improvement in PQ on both sets it is just larger on the display that does not require underscan. This is especially true if underscan is being used as a zoom adjustment for a projector because less of the available resolution is being used so that the image fills the screen.

So using the overscan-adjustment feature on the VP30 (for broadcasts) deteriorates the pq even though the display is 1:1 pixelmapped and has no overscan??

We are still working on the updated IR/Serial protocol and we may not have this live until first thing next week, but we are still trying to get it up today. Thanks for your patience.

Hi Josh,

Any update on when you expect this material to be available?

Thanks.

The IR Code Generator should be up with the next couple of days. The updated serial protocol will be within the same time frame.

So using the overscan-adjustment feature on the VP30 (for broadcasts) deteriorates the pq even though the display is 1:1 pixelmapped and has no overscan??

Anyone?

So using the overscan-adjustment feature on the VP30 (for broadcasts) deteriorates the pq even though the display is 1:1 pixelmapped and has no overscan??

This difference that I am talking about by using or not using the overscan/underscan adjustments is not going to be a night-and-day difference by any stretch. This difference may not even be distinguishable to most users. The point that I was trying to make is that optimally you would like to find a display that allows you to get 1:1 pixel mapping with no overscan.

Time for your answer please Josh.

I should note that I have stated previously that I will not comment on future features.

I understand your frustration so I will comment on our intentions when it comes to adding pass-through functionality to the VP30. We intend on adding pass-through to the VP30 in the next couple of months. I will verify next week if there are any limitations to this feature, rather than overstate the capabilties now.

HDMI audio is passed to the digital outputs if the input signal is 2 channel PCM, DD or dts.

Both digital audio outputs are active at the same time.

Thanks for the answer. I understand about the no comments on future releases, but since you did post the article promising it onn your own website, I felt it was only fair to ask if it was really going to happen and when.

I have not delved into HDCP enough to know if it is part of Video and Audio protection, but assume from what I have read so far that it effects both, and hence my question, If it does not then I appologise for my repeated question.

CURRENT FIRMWARE QUESTION
So that myself as well as everyone else interested is clear, what you are saying is that 5.1 Dolby Digital (and DTS) from HDMI inputs is ALWAYS passed to the digital outputs (as encoded to be decoded by receiver), even when the stream is HDCP right?

1080P QUESTION (for your verifying statement you promised to give next week)
Do you envisage any problems doing the above too when you pass-through 1080P?

Josh,

I am contemplating purchasing VP30.
What i want to know is on a 42" Panasonic Plasma feeding SD off DVB off an ariel would i have an improved picture.?????
I do have HD but progs are limited.Quick reply would be wonderful

The IR Code Generator should be up with the next couple of days. The updated serial protocol will be within the same time frame.

Thanks!

brichards you can check you PM box for partial reply.

Just a little test of the quality of VP30 for PAL Market.
Yesterday night I tested the ABT102 with my DVDs to evaluate the quality of deinterlacing.
Normally I use Gladiator, Monsters & Co and Cats & Dogs (I'not sure of this title, in Italy is "come cani e gatti").
The deinterlacer was in auto position, and the results are very good for all the scenes that I usually test...
But when I arrived at the n° 4 of Cats and Dogs (the scene whit the house) I noted a big problem: The roof is not clear but is in "movement" (I don't know the exact term for this artefact).
Panic.
I attempt other setting, but nothing until the "2:2 ODD"....
But when I setted 2:2 ODD.... Miracle!!!!! :)
The best Image I never see for this scene!!!!

Now I'm sure that my money was invested in a fantastic product.
I suggest for everyone that has a problem in PAL Market to test VP30 with ABT102 using "2.2 Even" or "2.2 Odd".... pheraps he falls in love for this processor.

I hope tha my experience was helpfull for somebody and excuse for my english :o

This difference that I am talking about by using or not using the overscan/underscan adjustments is not going to be a night-and-day difference by any stretch. This difference may not even be distinguishable to most users. The point that I was trying to make is that optimally you would like to find a display that allows you to get 1:1 pixel mapping with no overscan.

Hi Josh

Thanks for your reply.
My display supports 1:1 pixel mapping without overscan (Panasonic PHD8 50" plasma).

I only use the overscan feature of the VP30 for television broadcasts, where the picture does not fill the screen completely. So does using overscan on the VP30 deterioate the picture quality in this case?

I posted this question before, but no one responded. I did not find a specific answer on this via the search function and Josh did not respond to my email.

So, I will try again.

Is it a new characteristic of V 1.07 FW that the Auto Priority feature no longer works?

I went from 1.0 to 1.07 and this stopped working. Can someone confirm if this is the case, or do I need to look at something else - though I don't know where to go.

Maybe I should go back to V 1.00, but before I do that, I wanted to get some feedback. I don't want to go back, if this is not a cause of the 1.07 FW update.

Your response are appreciated.

get rid of the wife Steve, then you don't need auto anymore, just messin with ya ;)

I don't use the Auto so I have never even checked it, I am sure someone elsewill comment :)

-Gary

I posted this question before, but no one responded. I did not find a specific answer on this via the search function and Josh did not respond to my email.

So, I will try again.

Is it a new characteristic of V 1.07 FW that the Auto Priority feature no longer works?

I went from 1.0 to 1.07 and this stopped working. Can someone confirm if this is the case, or do I need to look at something else - though I don't know where to go.

Maybe I should go back to V 1.00, but before I do that, I wanted to get some feedback. I don't want to go back, if this is not a cause of the 1.07 FW update.

Your response are appreciated.

I'm running 1.07 and use Auto Priority exclusively. What problem are you seeing? A couple of things to remember:

1 - FW updates reset everything, so you may need to reset priority orders, set input to auto, etc.

2- Some devices have an annoying tendency to send video signals when you're not expecting them (DVRs, in particular) so you want to make sure they are relatively low priority, so that they don't keep you from watching a DVD, etc.

Hi Josh

Thanks for your reply.
My display supports 1:1 pixel mapping without overscan (Panasonic PHD8 50" plasma).

I only use the overscan feature of the VP30 for television broadcasts, where the picture does not fill the screen completely. So does using overscan on the VP30 deterioate the picture quality in this case?

This shouldn't be a problem, you're applying the scaling to the input signal not the output signal, the output should still be 1:1. Only time it could be a problem is if your input was say 720p and you output 720p to a 720p display.

I am having problems with my xbox --> vp30 --> sp4805. The vp30 rgb analog connections will not recognize the chip modded xbox with the chip turned off, but will when the chip is on.
The vp30 also won't recognize my dvd player or cable box through the rgb analog connections.

I posted this question before, but no one responded. I did not find a specific answer on this via the search function and Josh did not respond to my email.

So, I will try again.

Is it a new characteristic of V 1.07 FW that the Auto Priority feature no longer works?

I went from 1.0 to 1.07 and this stopped working. Can someone confirm if this is the case, or do I need to look at something else - though I don't know where to go.

Maybe I should go back to V 1.00, but before I do that, I wanted to get some feedback. I don't want to go back, if this is not a cause of the 1.07 FW update.

Your response are appreciated.

I added a new HDMI DVD player which always seems to trigger the VP30 even when the DVD player if off. I previously only had one HDMI device (Sat) which I knew was going to be a problem as it always sends Video even when it was off. This was not an issue because I had it prioritized last. Not sure why my DVD player is a problem.... SJ

I am having problems with my xbox --> vp30 --> sp4805. The vp30 rgb analog connections will not recognize the chip modded xbox with the chip turned off, but will when the chip is on.

The RGBHV input on the VP30 will not accept an interlaced signal, 480i or 576i (an interlaced component signal is accepted on Component 1 and Component 2). The dashboard of the Xbox is 480i. Have you tried connecting your Xbox on one of the component inputs?

The vp30 also won't recognize my dvd player or cable box through the rgb analog connections.

This question applies to both of your questions, is it the RGBHV inputs (terminated with BNCs) that you are referring to when you say 'rgb analog connections' or is it the Component/RGBS input that you are referring to? If it is the former, then the same issue mentioned above may be causing this. If it is the latter, I strongly encourage you to contact DVDO support so that we can help you figure out what is going on. DVDO Support can be reached at 866-423-3836 extension 333 or help@dvdo.com.

For all those that are wondering, Beta version 1.09a has been released in a final version 1.10, and it is available here:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

Josh, thanks for 1.10 and all up coming enhancement/bug killer firmware.

"We" request once more:),
Please, an 16 x 9 non-linear stretch for us 2.35:1 "scope" screen guys ?

Eric,

I think you hit the piece I was missing - the input select to AUTO. I will test this out this evening. THanks.

Eric,

I think you hit the piece I was missing - the input select to AUTO. I will test this out this evening. THanks.

Been there, done that! :p

Thanks Josh. I'm using the bnc connections so I guess I'll change some things around. Any possibility of a firmware update that will allow 480i on the bnc connections?
Thanks,
Nathan

Originally Posted by JimmyR
Almost there .

I was hoping for an non-linear stretch for 16 x 9 media to 2.35:1 for us anamorphic and "scope" screen folks. Maybe next time around, Josh ??



It is certainly something that we can consider. If you have an idea of how you would like that image non-linearly stretched, please send me that model (Josh@dvdo.com).

__________________
Josh Allen
DVDO/Powered by ABT

Josh, thanks for 1.10 and all up coming enhancement/bug killer firmware.

"We" request once more:),
Please, an 16 x 9 non-linear stretch for us 2.35:1 "scope" screen guys ?

Can you please explain how you think this the content should be non-linearly stretched? I thought one of the major reasons to get a constant height configuration was to maintain OAR with all content and with maximum resolution/lumens from the given projector.

For all those that are wondering, Beta version 1.09a has been released in a final version 1.10, and it is available here:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

Thanks Josh/DVDO, where there any tweaks/changes from 1.09a?

Dale,

Any work planned to slightly improve NLS (make it more adjustable, or have slightly different flavors of it)?

I also think that a 16:9 stretch for 2.35 screen could be a very cool idea, particularly for those people who use a panamorph or similar solution.

This shouldn't be a problem, you're applying the scaling to the input signal not the output signal, the output should still be 1:1. Only time it could be a problem is if your input was say 720p and you output 720p to a 720p display.

Excellent - thánks for your answer! :)

What changed between 1.09a and 1.10? I thought usually the beta became the final release with the same firmware number.

What changed between 1.09a and 1.10? I thought usually the beta became the final release with the same firmware number.

Functionally, there is no difference between 1.09a and 1.10.

Before I buy one want to be sure of a couple of things. If you have the output set to 1080p HDMI it will upscale 1080i HDMI (HDCP) and pass through 1080p HDMI input to the HDMI output at 1080p with HDPC (if applicable)? Also can you select HDMI 1080p 48Hz and/or will it pass through HDMI 1080p 48Hz yo the HDMI output?

The Discrete IR Code Generator for the VP30 is now available here: http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_setup.php

I would like to publicly thank Barry Gordon for providing this very powerful tool. This is the main reason why we did not release the updated IR code list and our Excel-based IR code generator that I spoke about last week. Barry's solution is much easier to use and I know you will all enjoy it. :D

The Discrete IR Code Generator for the VP30 is now available here: http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_setup.php

I would like to publicly thank Barry Gordon for providing this very powerful tool. This is the main reason why we did not release the updated IR code list and our Excel-based IR code generator that I spoke about last week. Barry's solution is much easier to use and I know you will all enjoy it. :D

Barry you're a legend... thanks!

Dale,

Any work planned to slightly improve NLS (make it more adjustable, or have slightly different flavors of it)?

I also think that a 16:9 stretch for 2.35 screen could be a very cool idea, particularly for those people who use a panamorph or similar solution.


the way to access NLS is pretty cumbersome (unless I'm doing something wrong....) - I tend to use the NLS streth on my NEC XR5 as I think it distorts the image less....

wow, very impressive tool!!!

Need info: Will the iScan 30 accept a 1080p input?

Barry, u da man.

I've owned the VP30 w/ the ABT102 and SDI input for about 3 months now and I have to say I'm quite impressed with it. I hesitated buying the VP30 because I was waiting for Anthem to start beginning upgrading their D1 to the new D2 w/ the video processing. Well I've waited so long that I just scrapped that idea and went with the VP30 and I've been very happy with it. I want to commend Josh and DVDO for their outstanding commitment to their customers as is evident by the forum and the stream of bug fixes and enhancements that have been released the past couple of months. I feel very confident that DVDO will continue to offer improvements and upgrades to their products through the years.

Bravo DVDO and Thank You! Josh.

~Nisi

I love Barry's new utility but did not see a code for going into the new 4:3 stretch mode preset. Does that exist yet?

Thanks!

Drew

sweet :eek:

Thanks Barry and DVDO ;)

-Gary

Drew, I appreciate the passion, but save it for a Blonde, or whatever helps your clock tick (:-).

Jeff is providing me with the new automation command details (he thinks today) at which time I will update the material. It is just a change to the ini file. The whole program is table driven from what is in the ini file. There will also be a slightly revised version that has some cosmetic improvements and provides version numbers for both the application and the automation code level so if there are problems users can tell us what version of the program and what version of the ini file is in use.

Cool, thanks. I eagerly and passionately await the new codes! Thanks for all the work.

Still need this answered: Will the iScan 30 take a 1080p input?

Still need this answered: Will the iScan 30 take a 1080p input?

No.

Any possibility of a firmware update that will allow 480i on the bnc connections?

One of the projects that I am working on this week is updating all of the discrete codes on our website. This should be taken care of by Friday at the latest.

1. The new tool is nice, but i was assuming the missing codes would be filled in, ie presets and profiles 5 .. 10!

New firmware 1.10.

2. The new fw is also nice, but this does NOT seem to be the FW you announced recently, i.e.: a new zoom method, looking into the problems with discrete IR codes and some trouble in the gamma adjusment department which were present in 1.09(a).

Do i understand this correctly? If so, is it worked on or will this be skipped?

No.
How is everyone handling 1080p or HTPC inputs?

How is everyone handling 1080p or HTPC inputs?

sadly, they aren't :(

HTPC is fine via anything but 1080p(well I should say almost, not sure about 960p or other rez's)

-Gary

Josh,

FTDI has posted a new driver for their USB-serial adapter, i.e CDM 2.00.00. Do you or anyone else know if this will work for updating the VP30? Thanks.

Josh,

Any news on EDID editing ala Lumagen HDQ to force UK sky boxes to output 476i and not deinterlacing internally please?

thx
Ian

I upgraded to the latest software version. AUTO PRIORITY still does not work. I have a DVD player which outputs HDMI. The VP30 selects this input even when the DVD player is OFF. Additionally, the INFO screen shows NO SIGNAL, but it still selects it. Why? My Sat HDMI component always is on (even when it is off) and shows a HDMI signal. Therefore, I understand why this is always selecting. But the DVD player shows NO SIGNAL from HDMI on the INFO screen, yet it is still selected by the AUTO. Any thoughts? Josh? Thanks. SJ

Josh,

FTDI has posted a new driver for their USB-serial adapter, i.e CDM 2.00.00. Do you or anyone else know if this will work for updating the VP30? Thanks.

Version 2.00.00 does not work for updating the VP30.

Any news on EDID editing ala Lumagen HDQ to force UK sky boxes to output 476i and not deinterlacing internally please?


We are aware of this feature request although I think you mean 576i.

any help to achieve this is appreciated

For those that are interested, I have placed a copy of the IR Code generator program on my web site (www.the-gordons.net). Go to the bottom of the home page and follow the obvious link. If asked for a userid or password use guest for each one.

The most recent version which has the correct tables for the latest discrete codes is currently available. I know Josh will be placing the same package on the DVDO site but he is a bit swamped with product development. If you find any problems or have questions I can be reached at barry@the-gordons.net

Enjoy.

Functionally, there is no difference between 1.09a and 1.10.
Thanks. I might as well just stick with 1.09a then. Since my recalibartion last week the picture is just amazing. The HD DVD player now has a jaw dropping picture so I don't want to risk messing anything up yet.

How is everyone handling 1080p or HTPC inputs?
I have to bypass the VP30 and go straight into my TV with my HTPC.

How is everyone handling 1080p or HTPC inputs?


Ditto, bypassing the VP30 and connecting directly

Awaiting a "whatever" resolution IN firmware, or atleast 768P/1080P "pass through"

Ditto, bypassing the VP30 and connecting directly

Awaiting a "whatever" resolution IN firmware, or atleast 768P/1080P "pass through"
I got a PM from Josh saying that pass-thru "is among a group of features that we are working on right now and plan on having available in 3-6 weeks ". Hope he doesn't mind me sharing this info that he was kind enough to PM me. I bought a HD-DVD player today but will not be able to use until I get a scaler. I would order the iScan 30 today if pass-thru was available. Even though it looks like it is coming I'm hesitant to spend that kind of money till the "chicken hatches". Josh, please try to rush the pass-through update so I can watch some HD-DVD's because I really like the iScan 30 over other scalers I have looked at. With 1080p sources becoming as common as dirt it seems this is a must for a scaler. Hope everyone has and keeps requesting this much need convenience (and necessity in my case) update.

The HD DVD player will output 1080i max. The VP30 can handle that resolution.
Why do you need a scaler to use the HD DVD player? You should be able to use the HDMI out or the component out for 720P and 1080i. All the older HD sets should at least have a component input and all the newer sets should have both.

The HD DVD player will output 1080i max. The VP30 can handle that resolution.
Why do you need a scaler to use the HD DVD player?...
Read and yea shall see. HD10K (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/list_price.jsp?model_id=MDL101568&feature_id=00)

But the HD-A1, the only HD-DVD player available will only output 1080i. The VP30 can pass that straight to the JVC PJ and then the JVC will do the 1080i/1080p conversion.

If the PJ doesn't have a scaler in it that still doesn't change the fact that the HD-A1 will only do 1080i out, which the VP30 will handle.

Read and yea shall see. HD10K (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/list_price.jsp?model_id=MDL101568&feature_id=00)

For $15K that projector should be able to properly deinterlace 1080i to 1080P. If my $3500 set can do it I would hope that $15K projector can.
For my HD dVD player I let the VP30 handle the overscan and the TV deinterlaces the 1080i signal. I am only using the underscan feature. The TV was calibrated for the HD DVD player with the VP30 settings at their default.

I got a PM from Josh saying that pass-thru "is among a group of features that we are working on right now and plan on having available in 3-6 weeks ".


Thanks, *me cross fingers*

For $15K that projector should be able to properly deinterlace 1080i to 1080P. If my $3500 set can do it I would hope that $15K projector can.
For my HD dVD player I let the VP30 handle the overscan and the TV deinterlaces the 1080i signal. I am only using the underscan feature. The TV was calibrated for the HD DVD player with the VP30 settings at their default.
You obviously don't get it. It has no internal processing (no contrast, no brightness, no sharpness, no hue, no....) for 100% pure unfiltered signal with no chance of added video nose or artifacts. An analogue would be a high end pre amp with no tone controls for a pure direct signal that adds no distortion. ;)

...If the PJ doesn't have a scaler in it that still doesn't change the fact that the HD-A1 will only do 1080i out, which the VP30 will handle.
It won't handle my HTPC hooked to it at 1080p 48Hz.

Okay, so you're getting the PJ sans the outboard video processor it mates up with.

Okay, so you're getting the PJ sans the outboard video processor it mates up with.
Got and correct, I use a HTPC at 1080p and I bought a HD-DVD player that I can't hookup with out the iScan 30. But if I get the iScan then I can't hook up my HTPC.

http://photos.imageevent.com/williamjulien/hometheater/huge/HT04.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/williamjulien/hometheater/huge/HT02.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/williamjulien/hd10k/huge/HD10K.jpg

Got it, I had missed your mentioning of the HTPC earlier. Nice setup BTW.

Got it, I had missed your mentioning of the HTPC earlier. Nice setup BTW.
If I seem a little testy it's because besides all the questioning here I received the following unwarranted personal attack PM earlier today.

Honestly William,

Your misunderstanding of technology is amazing.

1) You don't need a scaler with a HD-A1. It outputs 1080i

2) The HD-A1 will NEVER EVER output 1080p - Toshiba did not build it in. You will need another HD DVD player for 1080p assuming you have a 1080p display, which is itself a lie for a lot of Manufacturers. Do some research.

3) If you someday do have a source that outputs 1080p and the VP30 someday has passthru - WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS. It means NOTHING. A $2 cord from radio shack does passthru. You can't take 1080i or 1080p and scale it to 1080i and 1080p. It is that already.

YOU DO NOT NEED A SCALER if your sources are HD already. You need a $35SWITCH.

I have the Oppo 970 connected via HDMI to the VP30 (with ABT102), outputting 720p to an NEC XR5 - the PQ is stunning.

I tried to watch Pulp Fiction on DVD - tried both R1 (original edition) and R4 (anniversary edition) .... the PQ was terrible (I could not get past chapter 2 it was so bad)..... tried all the deinterlacing modes and the PQ did not improve at all .. lots of jaggies and moire everywhere.... it was pretty much unwatcheable ..... it would be a very big coincidence having 2 bad versions of the same movie in different editions and region codes!!

not sure if anyone else had a similar experience?

Regards,

Marcelo

Hai,

That the projector is a headend only is known, that you picked the vp30 is a little bit of a suprise atleast to me until i remembered JVC will be bundling the vp30 with these projectors themselfs


-----
JVCJVC SELECTS DVDO’s A/V MEDIA PROCESSOR FOR ITS D-ILA LINEUP OF HOME THEATER PROJECTOR SYSTEMS

http://www.dvdo.com/new/press_07-11-2006.php
-----

Just so you know...

Daniel.

For all those that are wondering, Beta version 1.09a has been released in a final version 1.10, and it is available here:

http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

Hi Josh,

You are still working on fixing the audio drop out problems even though this final version was released? I had HD+ previously and it did not have these problems with similar setup. I have Denon 1920 and Topfield 5100 connected using toslink and 1.10 sw. I have ABT102 and SDI mods installed. I had 4 drop outs during 3 hours.

Hai,

That the projector is a headend only is known, that you picked the vp30 is a little bit of a suprise atleast to me until i remembered JVC will be bundling the vp30 with these projectors themselfs


-----
JVCJVC SELECTS DVDO’s A/V MEDIA PROCESSOR FOR ITS D-ILA LINEUP OF HOME THEATER PROJECTOR SYSTEMS

http://www.dvdo.com/new/press_07-11-2006.php
-----

Just so you know...

Daniel.

Doesn't the VP30 bob and weave 1080i to get 1080P? That seems like it wouldn't mate very well with that $15K projector if you send it that kind of signal. It seems like without any internal processing it is kind of limiting. It would be better to have processing with the ability to turn it off if needed. After 5 years with HD I couldn't imagine only being able to hook up a couple of HD sources. I already have over half a dozen with my main setup and I'll probably add a couple more within the next 6 months(PS3 and BD player).
And who sent William that PM? It would seem easier to post any comments in the thread.
It would also be nice to see some pics once the projector is up and running William.

Doesn't the VP30 bob and weave 1080i to get 1080P?

No, it scales each individual 1920x540 field directly to your output resolution. No bobbing or weaving.

Doesn't the VP30 bob and weave 1080i to get 1080P? That seems like it wouldn't mate very well with that $15K projector if you send it that kind of signal. It seems like without any internal processing it is kind of limiting. It would be better to have processing with the ability to turn it off if needed. After 5 years with HD I couldn't imagine only being able to hook up a couple of HD sources. I already have over half a dozen with my main setup and I'll probably add a couple more within the next 6 months(PS3 and BD player).
And who sent William that PM? It would seem easier to post any comments in the thread.
It would also be nice to see some pics once the projector is up and running William.
If the iScan 30 processors did not scale 1080i to 1080p then it would be up to an internal scaler to accomplish this anyway. It has to be done so why would be better to do internally by a cheaper chipset scaler than using an iScan 30? Also it is a misnomer to believe that if you send a 1080p display a native 1080p signal that you will TOTALLY bypass the internal scaler. Some circuits will still be involved and some signal degrading or changing can take place. As for who sent me the PM: I'm going to give them time (24 hours from receiving) to PM an apologize (which I asked for) or I will name them. I know it is a tempest in a tea pot but it is my tea pot.

As for sources I have (and still am) been a big HTPC user. It also has a Fusion HDTV card so I get OTA HD plus I have collected about 300 HD trailers. I have never beg into games but plan on buying a XBox360 or PS3. I also look forward to have HD/BD in my HTPC soon.

Also by pictures do you mean screen shots? I plan on taking some but I'm getting a new self that will rase projector about 9") next week and was waiting on that.

No, it scales each individual 1920x540 field directly to your output resolution. No bobbing or weaving.
With film is this field scaling better than Bob? I know that with Bob you do have a chance of mis combing wrong fields. Is scaling each field a way of eliminating this? It seems even with the miss combined fields that Bob could produce a truer picture. I'm I missing something?

Also does this make the add in deinterlacing card a must have?

You are still working on fixing the audio drop out problems even though this final version was released?

Yes, we are still working on correcting the random audio dropouts.

I don't understand this at all

Barry's new program is so sweet, but just like always, the discrete codes work on my pronto or Theater Master for about 1 hour or 2 and then the VP30 totally ignores them

am I missing something here, this has been happening to me since day 1, discretes are awesome and work for a short while then nothing, unplug the VP30, the discretes work for a short while and then nothing, same process repeats itself

turning the unit on and off via standby doesn't help

I just don't get this, the VP30 Ir program and codes are amazing, but they won't do me any good with this problem :(

-Gary

The nice thing about the program is that it generates perfect IR. No noise, no repeats no learning artifacts. The issue with the fact they stop working, I believe is known at DVDO and they should be working on it.

Barry I love you for this program, it is so sweet, the discretes for everything, unreal, I cannot thank you and DVDO enough

with my 2.35:1 constant height setup, the direct codes for aspect ratio and curtain and etc. are soooo nice :)

glad to hear it isn't just me with this IR issue ;)

-Gary

I drive my VP30 strictly through the RS232 interface. Only command it looses is the curtain open/close so I stopped using it.

I am working on another program that will incorporate a lot more support features. One of the things that has held me back on releasing it is I am in discussions with DVDO to provide an RS232 command to save (output on the serial port) all of the users settings (I am told that there are over 1000 of them) and a command to restore them over the serial port). I have a version that does it by inputs, but I can not do it by resolutions and the VP30 saves things by input major, resolution minor (I think).

I don't understand this at all

Barry's new program is so sweet, but just like always, the discrete codes work on my pronto or Theater Master for about 1 hour or 2 and then the VP30 totally ignores them

am I missing something here, this has been happening to me since day 1, discretes are awesome and work for a short while then nothing, unplug the VP30, the discretes work for a short while and then nothing, same process repeats itself

turning the unit on and off via standby doesn't help

I just don't get this, the VP30 Ir program and codes are amazing, but they won't do me any good with this problem :(

-Gary

I too have had this problem from day one with the Pronto, Home Theater Master, and Harmony. It is a actually more frustrating for me than the audio dropouts, though the dropouts are a close second. I usually get a few days before the commands stop functioning rather than a few hours as in your case.

- Collin

Hi All,

I am new to the site and hope I don't get flamed for asking a stupid question. I have read a lot of the post on this topic and I am still not sure I know what difference this will make. So I have a question. I have a KDS-A2000 (I traded my xbr1 didn't like the ears) Will this processor make that big of a difference that it is worth the $? What happens when it gets to the TV will it not get reprocessed and loose some of its quality? Thanks for all of the information you have given so far. I can see how this would help with a projector since you have NO processing and the signal would be clean. Please let me know how different you think it will be based on all of your experience.
Thanks everyone as I continue to learn.
GE :)

I don't understand this at all

Barry's new program is so sweet, but just like always, the discrete codes work on my pronto or Theater Master for about 1 hour or 2 and then the VP30 totally ignores them

am I missing something here, this has been happening to me since day 1, discretes are awesome and work for a short while then nothing, unplug the VP30, the discretes work for a short while and then nothing, same process repeats itself

turning the unit on and off via standby doesn't help

I just don't get this, the VP30 Ir program and codes are amazing, but they won't do me any good with this problem :(

-Gary

I've got the same problem with my pronto TSU 3000 - spendt the good part of the weekend reprogramming the pronto and rebooting the VP30 ..... gave up at the end (10pm Sunday night) -

I just use the remote control commands now... discreete commands for display profiles change was excellent when it worked.....

Barry

DVDO needs to hire you bud ;)

Barry when my codes do work for a dew mins, the Curtain open code never would work, the curtain close was random

It's truely a shame about the discrete commands, they are so nice :(

Josh do you guys have any word on this, I think there are quite a few of us that seem to have this set back

I am using the classic Pronto TSU2000, and also have a RX-500

thanks guys

-Gary

Gary, are you saying they (1) never work, (2) they work intermittently or (3) they work well and then after some time Hours / days) they stop working.

If the first case there may be something wrong with the IR receiver in the VP 30, In the second there also may be something wrong or you might have a noisy IR environment (e.g. fluorescent lighting nearby puts out IR, some other devices e.g. plasma screens also do). In the last cases that sounds like a memory overwrite problem, and I think DVDO is aware of it

For case 2 (intermittent operation) do you have access to an IR repeater system or a method of getting RF out of the remote and changing it to IR (I know the newer prontos can do this with either a NETx for the iPronto or a similar devices for the others. If the remote is sending out RF and you tape the IR emitter from the RF to IR converter over the VP30 IR window and then close it off to all local light using black electrical tape, then you have a system that "sees" no IR noise. In my HT I use RS232, but I did use IR and I used it through a repeater system as I described and masked off the input to the VP30 IR. The IR system, both discrete and the Remote do have a field for the detection of singe bit errors. If the code is in error I suspect they will not act on it as opposed to it possibly aliasing to another code. I had to do the same thing for the SA8300 DVR's which have no RS232 interface and no way of having different device codes so having two of them in the same room is a challenge. My repeater system does IR routing so I was bale to solve the problem, but IR emitter 1 pasted over DVR 1's IR receiver was powerful enough to light up DVR 2's receiver, hence the black tape.

I too have had this problem from day one with the Pronto, Home Theater Master, and Harmony. It is a actually more frustrating for me than the audio dropouts, though the dropouts are a close second. I usually get a few days before the commands stop functioning rather than a few hours as in your case.

- Collin
Weird. I never have this problem with my ProntoPro - just works all the time.

oo hang on though, I haven't used the curtain discretes.

No, it scales each individual 1920x540 field directly to your output resolution. No bobbing or weaving.
So it doesn't shift the 2nd field up by a line? Otherwise, that's the same as bobbing isn't it?

And that sounds odd - wouldn't you get some nasty line twitter?

Gary, are you saying they (1) never work, (2) they work intermittently or (3) they work well and then after some time Hours / days) they stop working.

I'm not Gary, but i have case 3: After power recycling the discrete codes work. After some time (in my case days) they stop working. My Pronto is fine, i'm sure ;-)

William, you are one of many that have been asking the question on 1080P passthrough over the last few months, but it is still vapourware at the moment and has been for about the last 4 or 5 months.

I too have similar issues such as yourself, and want to be able to pass and control all video through the VP30 whether it processes them or not, so that I can also switch everything between my 2 different output devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo
I should note that I have stated previously that I will not comment on future features.

I understand your frustration so I will comment on our intentions when it comes to adding pass-through functionality to the VP30. We intend on adding pass-through to the VP30 in the next couple of months. I will verify next week if there are any limitations to this feature, rather than overstate the capabilties now.


It was nice that Josh responded to you via PM, but since there are many people on this thread that would like to know the answer too, can we please get answer on limitations here rather than in a PM.

cyborgx,

is this quote from a PM you received from Josh? If so, please remove it - what you're doing is forcing DVDO to commit to a feature they obviously have no intent on committing themselves on.

Please refrain from "outing" personal communication.

William, you are one of many that have been asking the question on 1080P passthrough over the last few months, but it is still vapourware at the moment and has been for about the last 4 or 5 months.

I too have similar issues such as yourself, and want to be able to pass and control all video through the VP30 whether it processes them or not, so that I can also switch everything between my 2 different output devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo
I should note that I have stated previously that I will not comment on future features.

I understand your frustration so I will comment on our intentions when it comes to adding pass-through functionality to the VP30. We intend on adding pass-through to the VP30 in the next couple of months. I will verify next week if there are any limitations to this feature, rather than overstate the capabilties now.


It was nice that Josh responded to you via PM, but since there are many people on this thread that would like to know the answer too, can we please get answer on limitations here rather than in a PM.
I'm about to buy one today on his PM that it's planed to be available in 6 weeks or less. I will be forced to manually hook and unhook in the mean time (what a PITA that will be). I hope that the update will be done very very soon (I'm counting on it). If DVDO could just get the pass-through part of the "group of features" they are working on and release a pass-through only firmware update I would be delighted.

When did you receive your info and what limitations could there be? He said nothing about any limitations.

I hope I'm not making am expensive mistake.

...you received from Josh? If so, please remove it - what you're doing is forcing DVDO to commit to a feature they obviously have no intent on committing themselves on....
Are you saying that Josh is not an official employee and spokesperson for DVDO? He is on the AVS site promoting and helping with tech support on the iScan. I have read many of his informative posts and it is one of the main reasons I have chose to go with DVDO.

William,

No. I'm saying that if Josh sent someone a private message instead of answering publically, then that person should respect his wishes and not quote from his private message.

William,

No. I'm saying that if Josh sent someone a private message instead of answering publically, then that person should respect his wishes and not quote from his private message.

I agree that's tacky. Also don't mince words. He said they "intend" which is far different then "we are". Any number of road blocks could stop that from being a reality.

Jeff

That quote was not from a PM. It was directly quoted from this thread. See here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8059305&&#post8059305

Barry I would say choice #3, they work well for a while then are dead as dead

I am going to put my Xantech IR system back in place soon, I will see if that helps things

thanks

-Gary

So it doesn't shift the 2nd field up by a line? Otherwise, that's the same as bobbing isn't it?

It does shift the second field up a line. I believe either Dale or Josh explained previously that this was somehow different from bobbing, though I don't remember the explanation now.