Gary, That definately sounds like an internal VP30 problem. I use a xantech system throughout the whole house with very good results

I'm currently considering whether or not to buy an MX-850 remote from URC along with a MRF-300 RF base station for my theater. Anyone using these with the VP30? I didn't think it would be an issue, but this recent talk about the VP30 and discrete codes got me worried. Any feedback would be great.

Barry, you software tool is amazing. I'm looking forward to putting it to use!

Barry do your codes always work and never stop working, the discrete ones that is?

I know you said the curtains are flaky

I am going to connect up the Xantech system right now and see how things go

I don't have the know how to understand IR fully, but could the VP30 be getting corrupted or something, with the Xantech and the covered IR port things might work ?

thanks Barry

-Gary

I'm currently considering whether or not to buy an MX-850 remote from URC along with a MRF-300 RF base station for my theater. Anyone using these with the VP30? I didn't think it would be an issue, but this recent talk about the VP30 and discrete codes got me worried. Any feedback would be great.

Barry, you software tool is amazing. I'm looking forward to putting it to use!

bobloblaw

Can't answer your question about whether it works with the VP30 but a word of warning. See the thread below

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-master/thread.cgi?9563

In a nut shell URC have pulled their Live update software feature for anyone who didn't buy from an authorized dealer. This has people up in arms and caught a lot of people out who purchased from places like Amazon

Guys can anyone give me any pointers on a RS-232 setup?, all my gear has these ports :)

I would love to setup some kind of docked tablet PC and do away with IR

I know nothing about that 232 stuff though

-Gry

bobloblaw

Can't answer your question about whether it works with the VP30 but a word of warning. See the thread below

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-master/thread.cgi?9563

In a nut shell URC have pulled their Live update software feature for anyone who didn't buy from an authorized dealer. This has people up in arms and caught a lot of people out who purchased from places like Amazon

Thanks for the info, this only confirms my intention to buy from an authorized dealer. It may be more expensive up front, but the peace of mind down the road is worth it.

Gary, with regards to the IR issue and dropping discretes, I do not use IR at all I basically use the RS232 capability.

With regard to RS232 support, I can help you there. First of all my new utility which I shall be posting at my web site soon has RS 232 support. It has the IRgen window, but it also has Query and Command buttons. Selecting an IR code (discrete or remote) will allow you to send the proper RS232 sequence to either query the current value or to command a new value. If there is enough interest I could rip it apart and supply a standalone RS232 utility that will allow you to execute any and all RS232 commands from the PC keyboard. With some additional effort I can include macros (single keystroke executing a sequence of RS 232 commands) and they would be table driven so the user could modify and build their own. Lastly drive the whole PC program from either the PC keyboard or any IR remote providing you have one of the more popular IR to RS232 converters (e.g. USIB-UIRT or NECIR2PC). Naturally you will need multiple RS232 ports, but I can give you (or anyone who wants to join in) tips on how to solve that problem. A remote alternate would be the ATI Wonder remotes, but I believe they have too limited a button set to be very useful. I personally use an iPronto because of the large screen real estate for buttons and the programability.

I have all of the "Software Parts" needed to build the program and it would take me only a week or two based on my current workloads. I do not charge for my programs, and i do support them. I do not release source code.

I have noticed something odd about my VP30.

The output colorspace seems to change without warning from the YPbPr 4:4:4 setting to the default RGB.
FW 1.07
Motorola 6208 STB and Oppo 970hd are my inputs and outputting thru HDMI.

Anyone else notice this?

I have noticed something odd about my VP30.

The output colorspace seems to change without warning from the YPbPr 4:4:4 setting to the default RGB.
FW 1.07
Motorola 6208 STB and Oppo 970hd are my inputs and outputting thru HDMI.

Anyone else notice this?
Only ever had that on a change of refresh rate/input and once set & saved, never happened again

I don't understand this at all

Barry's new program is so sweet, but just like always, the discrete codes work on my pronto or Theater Master for about 1 hour or 2 and then the VP30 totally ignores them

am I missing something here, this has been happening to me since day 1, discretes are awesome and work for a short while then nothing, unplug the VP30, the discretes work for a short while and then nothing, same process repeats itself

turning the unit on and off via standby doesn't help

I just don't get this, the VP30 Ir program and codes are amazing, but they won't do me any good with this problem :(

-Gary

That's my story also. Even with Barry's great program, I still get the same results on my VP30. SJ

this is obviously a wide problem and not isolated to 1 or 2 units

-Gary

I have noticed something odd about my VP30.

The output colorspace seems to change without warning from the YPbPr 4:4:4 setting to the default RGB.
FW 1.07

Anyone else notice this?

had the opposite happen once; changed colorspace to ypbpr; what was much worse was that the vp also decided that some bizarre res was what I wanted - something like 1920x1600 - but luckily it only decided to do that once.

I'm currently considering whether or not to buy an MX-850 remote from URC along with a MRF-300 RF base station for my theater. Anyone using these with the VP30? I didn't think it would be an issue, but this recent talk about the VP30 and discrete codes got me worried. Any feedback would be great.

Barry, you software tool is amazing. I'm looking forward to putting it to use!

I am using a MX-850 with a MRF-300 with the VP30 and it works fine for me. What are you wondering about this setup? BTW, I purchased mine from Bluedo.com and they have already responded to me with a link and a UserID/PW to download the latest software.

Jim

:confused: Just looking for a little education? Can anyone respond and help a guy out??? Looking at the latest post I am not sure I want to get in the game. An understanding of the difference would be appreciated. Thanks :(


Hi All,

I am new to the site and hope I don't get flamed for asking a stupid question. I have read a lot of the post on this topic and I am still not sure I know what difference this will make. So I have a question. I have a KDS-A2000 (I traded my xbr1 didn't like the ears) Will this processor make that big of a difference that it is worth the $? What happens when it gets to the TV will it not get reprocessed and loose some of its quality? Thanks for all of the information you have given so far. I can see how this would help with a projector since you have NO processing and the signal would be clean. Please let me know how different you think it will be based on all of your experience.
Thanks everyone as I continue to learn.
GE :)

:confused: Just looking for a little education? Can anyone respond and help a guy out??? Looking at the latest post I am not sure I want to get in the game. An understanding of the difference would be appreciated. Thanks :(

Hi there,

could you gives us more details -

TV set/monitor details
native resolution (if RPTV, LCD, PLasma), inputs available (component, RGBHV, VGA, DVI, HDMI), is the set HDCP compliant?,

what are your sources?
DVD, HD DVD, SD TV, cable, HD cable .... how much of each do you watch?



for example - I watch mostly FTA TV, on digital 576i (480i in the US) (50%), with 20% DVD (480i/576i) and about 30% digital cable (576i).

In general, the VP30 is wonderful for DVDs and cable - however for TV, it depends on how well encoded the programme is - CSI miami is perfect for example.

if you watch mainly HDTV and HD DVDs, the VP30 won't improve it too much .... either get the lumagen which does 1080i per pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing, or wait for DVDO to launch a full HD deinterlacing processor in a few months......

on top of this, you need to check if your display can accept native rate (1:1 match to the number of pixels on your display - unless you have a CRT TV) - otherwise you would be limited to sending 720p or 1080i to the panel - which is good, but not perfect, as the image would still need to be processed again by the display to match its native number of pixels....

hope this helps, and if you provide more information I'm sure other members will give you far better advice then mine.

Cheers,

Marcelo

The Native Resolution of the kds-2000 is 1080p. It is the 60 inch. HDMI inputs that are able to receive the Blue Ray's 1080p signal with no upconversion. I am using a digital HD cable box for TV. Of course the HD channels look great, DVD looks Good and it is hard to watch regular channels after the comparison with the other two. I spend a lot of time on the HD channels just because the resolution and upscaling on the regular channels just doesn't do it for me.

Will the TV reprocess the signal?
How much improvement do you think it will be?

Thanks for your response
Regards,
GE :)



QUOTE=big_marcelo]Hi there,

could you gives us more details -

TV set/monitor details
native resolution (if RPTV, LCD, PLasma), inputs available (component, RGBHV, VGA, DVI, HDMI), is the set HDCP compliant?,

what are your sources?
DVD, HD DVD, SD TV, cable, HD cable .... how much of each do you watch?



for example - I watch mostly FTA TV, on digital 576i (480i in the US) (50%), with 20% DVD (480i/576i) and about 30% digital cable (576i).

In general, the VP30 is wonderful for DVDs and cable - however for TV, it depends on how well encoded the programme is - CSI miami is perfect for example.

if you watch mainly HDTV and HD DVDs, the VP30 won't improve it too much .... either get the lumagen which does 1080i per pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing, or wait for DVDO to launch a full HD deinterlacing processor in a few months......

on top of this, you need to check if your display can accept native rate (1:1 match to the number of pixels on your display - unless you have a CRT TV) - otherwise you would be limited to sending 720p or 1080i to the panel - which is good, but not perfect, as the image would still need to be processed again by the display to match its native number of pixels....

hope this helps, and if you provide more information I'm sure other members will give you far better advice then mine.

Cheers,

Marcelo[/QUOTE]

this issue (discrete dropping) is something we've been seeing for a while, I was sure it was already resolved a while back :(

The Native Resolution of the kds-2000 is 1080p. It is the 60 inch. HDMI inputs that are able to receive the Blue Ray's 1080p signal with no upconversion. I am using a digital HD cable box for TV. Of course the HD channels look great, DVD looks Good and it is hard to watch regular channels after the comparison with the other two. I spend a lot of time on the HD channels just because the resolution and upscaling on the regular channels just doesn't do it for me.

Will the TV reprocess the signal?
How much improvement do you think it will be?

Thanks for your response
Regards,
GE :)





I believe a scaler will help you since you don't have many 1080p sources - specifically, the scaler will definitely help with SD and DVDs. If I had a 1080p set, I would absolutely have a scaler... the question is which one to have.....

if you want the scaler for your SD sources - VP30 would do very nicely

if you want the scaler to improve both SD AND HD sources (1080i) - Lumagen HDP and others which use HQV chip are your best bet.

However, based on your comments, I believe your biggest issues are with SD content ... so, if this is correct, IMHO the VP30 will do quite nicely indeed.

if other members have the same display as you do and the VP30 - they should be able to give you a first hand feedback....

have fun!

Cheers,

Marcelo

I am using a MX-850 with a MRF-300 with the VP30 and it works fine for me. What are you wondering about this setup? BTW, I purchased mine from Bluedo.com and they have already responded to me with a link and a UserID/PW to download the latest software.

Jim

Great, thanks for the info Jim. I don't have any specific questions, I was just curious if anyone has run into any "gotchas" with this setup.

Great, thanks for the info Jim. I don't have any specific questions, I was just curious if anyone has run into any "gotchas" with this setup.


Nope, just the "audio" issues (So I gave up for the time being and created a macro to switch my audio inputs at my preamp instead) and the lack of abilities to accept a 768P input (so I manually swap cables on devices that allow me to output a 768P resolution), but neither have anything to do with the remote.

Also, you have a PM.

Jim

William,

I think some of the confusion from your initial posts is coming from the fact that you keep saying that you want the pass-through feature to be available on the VP30. I, for one, don't understand why you want the VP30 in your setup. From the posts that I've read here, I don't believe it can scale to a "true" 1080p as I also thought it was posted earlier (by Dale maybe) that it did some sort of bob/weave (I'd really like Josh or someone to comment on that though since there seems to be contradictory posts lately). And the pass-through isn't going to help you at all if your projector doesn't do any scaling. With pass-through on the VP30 you'd get 1080i from the HD-DVD out (which I'd also like confirmation on as I thought the Blue-Ray & HD-DVD both output 1080p...isn't that the point?), into the VP30 which passes it on to the projector at 1080i. Am I missing something here?

Also, out of curiosity, why didn't you just buy the JVC package that included an outboard scaler?

William,

I think some of the confusion from your initial posts is coming from the fact that you keep saying that you want the pass-through feature to be available on the VP30. I, for one, don't understand why you want the VP30 in your setup. From the posts that I've read here, I don't believe it can scale to a "true" 1080p as I also thought it was posted earlier (by Dale maybe) that it did some sort of bob/weave (I'd really like Josh or someone to comment on that though since there seems to be contradictory posts lately). And the pass-through isn't going to help you at all if your projector doesn't do any scaling. With pass-through on the VP30 you'd get 1080i from the HD-DVD out (which I'd also like confirmation on as I thought the Blue-Ray & HD-DVD both output 1080p...isn't that the point?), into the VP30 which passes it on to the projector at 1080i. Am I missing something here?

Also, out of curiosity, why didn't you just buy the JVC package that included an outboard scaler?

I also bought the optional deinterlacing card (http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_acc_abt-102.php). So I believe that it will bob and weave for true 1080i input to 1080p output without scaling the individual fields to 1080. However I still desperately need a 1080p pass-through for my HTPC.


Also I did not but the package for 3 reasons. 1. I was going to wait on HD/BD and only use my HTPC. 2. It cost more than I can buy separately. 3. The iScan package was not available when ordered my HD10K.

I also bought the optional deinterlacing card (http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_acc_abt-102.php). So I believe that it will bob and weave for true 1080i input to 1080p output without scaling the individual fields to 1080. However I still desperately need a 1080p pass-through for my HTPC.


Also I did not but the package for 3 reasons. 1. I was going to wait on HD/BD and only use my HTPC. 2. It cost more than I can buy separately. 3. The iScan package was not available when ordered my HD10K.

Can a DVDO person verify whether or not the VP30 can output non bob/weaved 1080p with and without the ABT102 card?

William,
...as I thought the Blue-Ray & HD-DVD both output 1080p...
Also the current 3 HD-DVD players (really just 1 basic design) for what ever reason don't output 1080p. Hopefully they will offer a firmware upgrade to correct this oversight.

The ABT102 chip is an SD deinterlacer only. It doesn't do anything at all with HD signals. Those get processed by the scaling chip in the VP30.

The ABT102 chip is an SD deinterlacer only. It doesn't do anything at all with HD signals. Those get processed by the scaling chip in the VP30.
If it doesn't deinterlace 1080i then why does DVDO give 1080i to 1080p examples (http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_learn_deinterlacing.php)?

If it doesn't deinterlace 1080i then why does DVDO give 1080i to 1080p examples (http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_learn_deinterlacing.php)?
That page just describes deinterlacing in general. The link at the bottom takes you to the ABT102 page and it clearly states it's for 480i/576i only.

It's expected that DVDO's next VP will have HD deinterlacing.

That page just describes deinterlacing in general. The link at the bottom takes you to the ABT102 page and it clearly states it's for 480i/576i only.

It's expected that DVDO's next VP will have HD deinterlacing.
But doesn't the cheapest LCD or plasma deinterlace 1080i. Why would a $2500 scaler not? Also that page doesn't just describe deinterlacing in general but clearly talks abut "DVDO's Precision Deinterlacing technologies..." and goes on for 3 full paragraphs (almost half the page). If this is the case it should have a * by 1080i and a disclaimer at the bottom of the page. It seems very misleading at best to me.

But doesn't the cheapest LCD or plasma deinterlace 1080i. Why would a $2500 scaler not? Also that page doesn't just describe deinterlacing in general but clearly talks abut "DVDO's Precision Deinterlacing technologies..." and goes on for 3 full paragraphs (almost half the page). If this is the case it should have a * by 1080i and a disclaimer at the bottom of the page. It seems very misleading at best to me.
But how well does it do it? I'm sure DVDO could have thrown in an off-the-shelf 1080i deinterlacing solution but that's not what DVDO is all about. They are after the best that can be had in video processing, and at a price that doesn't require a second mortgage on your home to pay for it.

Bottom line, the DVDO VP30 does not do what you want it to do, and talking about it, and/or taking issue with the information on a webpage of theirs is not going to change that fact. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but to do what you want, you will have to look elsewhere, or wait until DVDO comes out with their next VP, hoping that it will do 1080i deinterlacing, which isn't a given at this point, although I'd be surprised if it didn't. :)

The VP-30 will produce 720P and 1080P outputs from a 1080i input. I assume this is defined as deinterlacing. The process used may not be the best with todays technology but the next generation will be state of the art.

I am outputting 1080P from 3 1080i sources through my VP-30 to a display that supposedly properly deinterlaces 1080i to 1080P.

I can not tell the difference between the VP-30 doing the job and the display doing the job at a 9 foot viewing distance on a 60" display. Maybe you can tell on a 100" but I bet the difference is minimal visually.

Okay, so I guess William is asking why it doesn't do it with the daughtercard, the ABT102??

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate your response to my post. Any other feedback from anyone else would be great. Thanks again Marcelo
Regards
Gregg

I believe a scaler will help you since you don't have many 1080p sources - specifically, the scaler will definitely help with SD and DVDs. If I had a 1080p set, I would absolutely have a scaler... the question is which one to have.....

if you want the scaler for your SD sources - VP30 would do very nicely

if you want the scaler to improve both SD AND HD sources (1080i) - Lumagen HDP and others which use HQV chip are your best bet.

However, based on your comments, I believe your biggest issues are with SD content ... so, if this is correct, IMHO the VP30 will do quite nicely indeed.

if other members have the same display as you do and the VP30 - they should be able to give you a first hand feedback....

have fun!

Cheers,

Marcelo

Right now on ebay there are a few edgeport USB to serial converters for sale in the $20-$40 range. These units work with the VP30. I have used these units in various sizes for about 6 years with no failures. I have bought them both new and used with no problems. Most of my experience is with the 8 port units, but I have total confidence in their units with smaller (or larger) port configurations.

gregereio: You may also want to check out the VP20.

any help to achieve this is appreciated


any help is appreciated on how to get 1:1 pixel mapping with Pioneer 435xde

Okay, so I guess William is asking why it doesn't do it with the daughtercard, the ABT102??

The why is very simple, the way the vp20/vp30 is build up doesn't allow it. The design was made for the Sil504 that could not do it so from the start they had to have a second
video path that handles the 1080i->1080p in this case its handled by the scaler with a small shift on the second frame. The atb102 chipset is a replacement chip for the Sil504 the connector for it makes that very clear (just check the lines).

So it was simple impossible for them todo it within the design (upgrade) they offered us. Also running the same code for HD would have resulted in them needing a much bigger fpga chip that would have cost alot more at this stage and heat problems. Look at the upgrade price of $199 then at the work/cost of the board it was just not impossble but also not practical.

They have made it very clear that (also they have shown it at shows) the same deinterlace software (or updated version) will be in the next design but that design will have to have bigger fpga's anyway since it will also do things like noise reduction.

You do have to wonder why JVC picked this as a partner for their 1080p projectors maybe they know something we don't or just feel that the way it handled HD now is
good enough for most people and the adaption of 1080p input signals with a passthrough is enough.

Daniel.

Right now on ebay there are a few edgeport USB to serial converters for sale in the $20-$40 range. These units work with the VP30. I have used these units in various sizes for about 6 years with no failures. I have bought them both new and used with no problems. Most of my experience is with the 8 port units, but I have total confidence in their units with smaller (or larger) port configurations.


thanks Barry,

I've have had problems with another FTDI converter I'm using... so I might give these ones a try.

Cheers,

Marcelo

I have just posted at my web site a utility program to help manage and support the DVDO VP30. The web site is www.the-gordons.net.

At the bottom of the home page there is an obvious link to follow at which time you will be able to figure it all out. If a userid or password is requested, use guest for each of them. Feel free to browse the site (might want to keep the SO away as they might get ideas that will not be in your best interests).The site is normally available 24x7.

The program is fully documented and comes as a zip archive. It consists of a MS Setupfile, the Setup program and the cab file holding all of the stuff. The installer will place all of the needed dll's into your Windows folder and locate the program in a folder in the Program File. The program has all the functionality of the IRgen program that is available at the web site and at DVDO. In addition it has much more capability if you connect the PC running the program to the VP30 on a serial link. Please read the documentation file (word document) prior to using the program. It will save both you and I some time.

There is no charge for the program and I do not provide source code. I do support what I write and appreciate feedback. Constructive feedback is welcome along with suggestions for modifications. Naturally any bugs reported will be addressed very quickly. I am very interested if this program does a reasonable job with some of the USB to Serial converters that are available. It has been tested on both a true com port and the edgeport line of USB to serial converters.

You do have to wonder why JVC picked this as a partner for their 1080p projectors maybe they know something we don't or just feel that the way it handled HD now is
good enough for most people and the adaption of 1080p input signals with a passthrough is enough.

Daniel.

could well be - I have viewed 1080i ->1080p on my pj, and really haven't been bothered by the "primitive" hd deinterlacing the VP30 employs. I'm sure not going to argue with the experts telling me about the better methods, but I still get a better looking display, than say, the HD-DVD player putting out 720p. (ok JoshZ - better looking to me. :) )

The picture quality of DVD's with my Denon SDI DVD player through the VP30 SDI is just great.

I have most of my DVD's on a Server-Disk connected through a Windows Mediacenter. Now I would like to get a SDI graphic card for my Mediacenter. Anybody tried this?

I don't think that will work Swiss, SDI is 480i and I don't think the PC would output that from the SDI output if there is such a thing

I could be totally off though ;)

better to rid up 3 or 4 DVD changer with SDI outputs and a SDI switcher ;)

-Gary

could well be - I have viewed 1080i ->1080p on my pj, and really haven't been bothered by the "primitive" hd deinterlacing the VP30 employs. I'm sure not going to argue with the experts telling me about the better methods, but I still get a better looking display, than say, the HD-DVD player putting out 720p. (ok JoshZ - better looking to me. :) )

The Toshiba HD DVD players have faulty 720p output. You should only use the player at 1080i and deinterlace externally, whether that be in your display or in the VP30.

The VP30's field-scaling isn't ideal in comparison to true 3:2 reverse telecine, but it looks damn good on most displays. On a 720p display you're hardly losing anything noticeable at all. It's really only going to stand out on a 1080p display.

I don't think that will work Swiss, SDI is 480i and I don't think the PC would output that from the SDI output if there is such a thing

I could be totally off though ;)

better to rid up 3 or 4 DVD changer with SDI outputs and a SDI switcher ;)

-Gary
An SDI adapter exists for the Sigma X-card. It connects into the same set of pins used to connect the X-card to a Holograph 3D card.

Mine will be here tomorrow. Looks like I will have to run my HTPC in interlaced mode (hopefully only a short time) and have a deinterlacing card that doesn't do a thing. However I'm excited to see HD-DVD on my system even if it is not at its most optimum. I sure hate the idea of running my HTPC at 1080i though.

It looks like DVDO just released a firmware update for the 20. Hopefully that means they will turn their full attention to a 30 update with 1080p pass-through.

The Toshiba HD DVD players have faulty 720p output. You should only use the player at 1080i and deinterlace externally, whether that be in your display or in the VP30.

The VP30's field-scaling isn't ideal in comparison to true 3:2 reverse telecine, but it looks damn good on most displays. On a 720p display you're hardly losing anything noticeable at all. It's really only going to stand out on a 1080p display.
Josh
I am outputting 1080P from the VP-30 to a new Sony 60A2000. I could not tell the difference when I ouput 1080i and let the display do the deinterlacing. I could tell 720P vs 1080i or P. Maybe the display is also poor at deinterlacing???

I have just posted at my web site a utility program to help manage and support the DVDO VP30. The web site is www.the-gordons.net.

At the bottom of the home page there is an obvious link to follow at which time you will be able to figure it all out. If a userid or password is requested, use guest for each of them. Feel free to browse the site (might want to keep the SO away as they might get ideas that will not be in your best interests).The site is normally available 24x7.

The program is fully documented and comes as a zip archive. It consists of a MS Setupfile, the Setup program and the cab file holding all of the stuff. The installer will place all of the needed dll's into your Windows folder and locate the program in a folder in the Program File. The program has all the functionality of the IRgen program that is available at the web site and at DVDO. In addition it has much more capability if you connect the PC running the program to the VP30 on a serial link. Please read the documentation file (word document) prior to using the program. It will save both you and I some time.

There is no charge for the program and I do not provide source code. I do support what I write and appreciate feedback. Constructive feedback is welcome along with suggestions for modifications. Naturally any bugs reported will be addressed very quickly. I am very interested if this program does a reasonable job with some of the USB to Serial converters that are available. It has been tested on both a true com port and the edgeport line of USB to serial converters.

Barry, you are a legend :) ... will try it this weekend.

Many thanks again.

Regards,

Marcelo

Marcelo, Aw shucks.....

I will probabky be posting new versions periodically, often in the begining. I have one just about ready that has a warning notice on the download regarding some USB converters, and provides access to firmware release notes. It also has a little cosmetic cleanup and changes the defaults in the ini file. e.g. it starts out with no com port or baud rate set so the program will always search for the VP30. I am thinking of saving that data under the assumption that you will always use the same port and the VP30 will always operate at the same speed. naturally the user can always override if thet change things.

Yes thanks again Barry ;)

this will be sweet :) my VP30 has so much adjusted and calibrated out, that I am tired of redoing it every time I update

-Gary

barrygordon,
Your efforts on this forum are truly astounding. I'm constantly amazed.
How lucky are we on this forum to have an engineer of your calibre offering the software, support and technical programming skills which improves DVDO's product no end.
To get this level of support and bettering a product we commonly share is awe inspiring. DVDO should seriously consider putting you on their payroll !!!!!
From across the pond in Australia. Well Done .
Now
All bow to Barry.

Using the iScan 30 to my HD10K what is my best choice for a film based HD-DVD content input of 1080i? Should I set the iScan output to 1080p 48Hz or 1080p 60Hz?

I do have the deinterlacing card if that makes any deference.

The ABT102 only works with 480i and 576i sources

The ABT102 only works with 480i and 576i sources
...but that still doesn't answer the question of which output is better. If the iScan 30 did deinterlace 1080i the answer would be 48Hz but the answer is not obvious to me.

...but that still doesn't answer the question of which output is better. If the iScan 30 did deinterlace 1080i the answer would be 48Hz but the answer is not obvious to me.

In simple terms...

As the method of 1080i -> 1080p in the VP30 is limited and the 1080i input is 60Hz then I'd say you should go with 1080p at 60Hz.

480i -> 1080p should be at 48Hz thou as the VP30/ABT102d can do that fully (i.e. identify/rebuild the original frames).

At least from my understanding but you can always try it and see (I'd presume it would look fairly bad thou so should be able to spot easy).

No bows please. I enjoy doping it and the instant that is no longer true I will stop.

There are many products out there that have benefitted from users providing support when the mfg has provided the necessary tech info either publicly or under NDA. Two examples that come to mind are the Roku Photobridge which is supplied with a complete development environment which has enabled some programmers to develop some major applications (DVD players, Slim music clients, slide show (picture) viewers) taking real advantage of the unit. The TIVO is another where programmers have done amazing things. Interesting in that both of these devices are Linux based.

All I request is feedback.

=As the method of 1080i -> 1080p in the VP30 is limited and the 1080i input is 60Hz then I'd say you should go with 1080p at 60Hz.

480i -> 1080p should be at 48Hz thou as the VP30/ABT102d can do that fully (i.e. identify/rebuild the original frames).

My projector will sync to 48hz. I've tested the VP30 with both 480i and 1080i sources. 480i converts to 48hz with no problem, but 1080i is a juddery mess. The VP30's field-scaling for 1080i doesn't work well with frame rate conversion.

Josh
I am outputting 1080P from the VP-30 to a new Sony 60A2000. I could not tell the difference when I ouput 1080i and let the display do the deinterlacing. I could tell 720P vs 1080i or P. Maybe the display is also poor at deinterlacing???

It's possible that the set uses the same type of 1080i scaling as the VP30.

The thing that's often misunderstood about the VP30's field-scaling is that it doesn't actually lose any of the original 1920x1080 pixels. Each 1920x540 interlaced field is interpolated to 1920x1080, with compensation for the position shift between even fields and odd fields. So all of the original pixels are still being displayed, more or less similar to interlacing. It's just that, within each field, the VP30 adds interpolated pixels to make the image pseudo-progressive.

I think most people expect that the scaler is halving the vertical resolution to 1920x540 and you simply lose 540 lines. That's not the case. The other 540 lines are still there in their original interlaced pattern.

This type of field-scaling isn't as ideal as proper 3:2 reverse pulldown frame reconstruction, but it still looks very good and can often fool the eye.

My projector will sync to 48hz. I've tested the VP30 with both 480i and 1080i sources. 480i converts to 48hz with no problem, but 1080i is a juddery mess. The VP30's field-scaling for 1080i doesn't work well with frame rate conversion.




....This type of field-scaling isn't as ideal as proper 3:2 reverse pulldown frame reconstruction, but it still looks very good and can often fool the eye.

So the answer is 1080p 60Hz output for a HD-DVD film input of 1080i is best for a projector that will display 48Hz or 60Hz native?

Sorry for the questions but I have always used a HTPC and never had to deal with interlaced signal.

Just a quick question regarding the unused BNC connectors on my VP30.

Are the BNCs on the VP30 terminated ?. If not what terminator is it best to use - I am guessing 75ohm 0.5w but 1% or 0.1% ?.

Many thanks,

Tony.

It's possible that the set uses the same type of 1080i scaling as the VP30.

The thing that's often misunderstood about the VP30's field-scaling is that it doesn't actually lose any of the original 1920x1080 pixels. Each 1920x540 interlaced field is interpolated to 1920x1080, with compensation for the position shift between even fields and odd fields. So all of the original pixels are still being displayed, more or less similar to interlacing. It's just that, within each field, the VP30 adds interpolated pixels to make the image pseudo-progressive.

I think most people expect that the scaler is halving the vertical resolution to 1920x540 and you simply lose 540 lines. That's not the case. The other 540 lines are still there in their original interlaced pattern.

This type of field-scaling isn't as ideal as proper 3:2 reverse pulldown frame reconstruction, but it still looks very good and can often fool the eye.

thanks Josh,

that's the best explanation of the vp30 1080i deinterlacing that I've seen yet - I certainly understand it better now.

Cheers,

Marcelo

I was just wondering if I would have a high quality projector that can do great 1080i deinterlacing but is not so good for SD signals, can I passthrough 1080i signal from HDMI input to HDMI output without VP30 doing anything.

I was just wondering if I would have a high quality projector that can do great 1080i deinterlacing but is not so good for SD signals, can I passthrough 1080i signal from HDMI input to HDMI output without VP30 doing anything.
if you select 1080i output, from a 1080i input signal, the VP30 just passes it through (albeit it may make brightness and colour changes as per your VP30 settings - but it doesn't deinterlace and reinterlae the signal).

1080p passthrough is being worked on and should be a part of the software eventually.

if you select 1080i output, from a 1080i input signal, the VP30 just passes it through (albeit it may make brightness and colour changes as per your VP30 settings - but it doesn't deinterlace and reinterlae the signal).

1080p passthrough is being worked on and should be a part of the software eventually.

This is exactly as I hoped it would be, thanks.

So the answer is 1080p 60Hz output for a HD-DVD film input of 1080i is best for a projector that will display 48Hz or 60Hz native?

With a 1080i input, 60hz is really the only viable output frame rate at this time. The field scaling screws up frame rate conversion to 48hz.

Your choice of output resolution is dependent on the native resolution of your display.

Anyone experiencing HDCP/handshake issues with these two working together? I'm on the fence on the whole SDI vs. HDMI situation. It seems for the most part the 970 plays nice with the VP30, but piece of mind goes a long way with me.

Getting the 970 is certainly the cheaper option, but the last thing I want to deal with are any issues related to HDCP. As far as I'm concerned, needing to power cycle either the VP30 or the 970 to solve such issues is simply a workaround and not a real solution.

Thanks.

boblowblaw (love the member name, I'm a big arrested development fan),

OPPO 970 works fine. I'm using it as a source for the VP30 without any problems.

I am also using the 970 with no problems

I am also using the 970 with a cheap Philips tube HDTV. I'll be cabling to my AE900U eventually.

Great, thanks for the feedback.

As far as I'm concerned, needing to power cycle either the VP30 or the 970 to solve such issues is simply a workaround and not a real solution.

That's just the way it goes with HDCP. I find that it usually helps to wait to turn on the 970 only after I've turned on the VP30 and switched to the appropriate HDMI input.

No probs with 970/VP30 and HDCP for me.

Greetings,
I just recieved my VP30 and having a little trouble getting a signal i.e. picture.
My equipments are as follows:

Brand new NEC PX-50XR5A Plasma
D* H20 HD sat box connected via HDMI
OPPO 971 connected via DVI-HDMI
Yamaha RX-V2600

Everything works fine but as soon as I switch to satellite I don't get any signal.
The D* set-up is o.k as I have no problem with my other alternate setup to my
Toshiba HDTV direct tube. So the signal is coming in fine. The H20 is set to output
480i.
I would really appreciate if someone can help me so I can enjoy this fine machine
and the upcominf NFL ST.

Thanx.................John

no problems with the 970 and the vp30 with me either.... all good.

Johnteee... are you routing the D*H@) via the yamaha 2600 or directly to the vp30?

I'm in HDCP hell with the Oppo 970 and the VP30. The VP30 closes the curtain and won't display anything. :(

But when I connect the Oppo directly to my BenQ PE8720 projector, everything is fine, so the problem seems clearly to be with the VP30.

Is anyone else using the PE8720 with 970/VP30 combination?

no problems with the 970 and the vp30 with me either.... all good.

Johnteee... are you routing the D*H@) via the yamaha 2600 or directly to the vp30?


Thanx for your response.
It's goin' to VP30 straight via HDMI.

Thanx for your response.
It's goin' to VP30 straight via HDMI.

these are some things you could try if you haven't tried already:

1 - hard reset of the VP30
2- upgrade to 1.10 firmware
3- change the output resolution on the oppo hdmi
4 - ensure the VP30 HDCP is set to on

Good luck,

Marcelo

these are some things you could try if you haven't tried already:

1 - hard reset of the VP30
2- upgrade to 1.10 firmware
3- change the output resolution on the oppo hdmi
4 - ensure the VP30 HDCP is set to on

Good luck,

Marcelo


Marcelo:
I've upgraded to 1.10 already & have no problem with the OPPO. My problem is the HD STB, where I have no picture i.e. signal !!

Marcelo:
I've upgraded to 1.10 already & have no problem with the OPPO. My problem is the HD STB, where I have no picture i.e. signal !!

apologies for the wrong reply! I don't know why I thought of the oppo halfway through the response.

Good luck solving it.

Cheers,

Marcelo

I'm in HDCP hell with the Oppo 970 and the VP30. The VP30 closes the curtain and won't display anything. :(

But when I connect the Oppo directly to my BenQ PE8720 projector, everything is fine, so the problem seems clearly to be with the VP30.

Is anyone else using the PE8720 with 970/VP30 combination?
There's a possible solution to the HDCP problem in the 970 thread...

I'm in HDCP hell with the Oppo 970 and the VP30. The VP30 closes the curtain and won't display anything. :(

There are some HDCP handshaking issues between the 970HD and the VP30, but it can be made to work. Try turning on the VP30 first, switching to the appropriate HDMI input, and only then turning on the 970HD. If that still doesn't work, switch over to a different video input that will give you a signal (for example, cable TV coming in over component), then switch back to HDMI.

It will work eventually, though you may need to play with it for a minute to get the handshake to lock.

Anyone have a link to the oppo post with the possible solution? I'm not seeing any particular HDCP issues myself, so this could be a triple HDCP protocol issue (i.e., display, processor, oppo)!

Anyone have a link to the oppo post with the possible solution? I'm not seeing any particular HDCP issues myself, so this could be a triple HDCP protocol issue (i.e., display, processor, oppo)!
Here's a link to an ISO file of the HDCP "fix".

http://rapidshare.de/files/29049631/613AMOD.iso.html

Read on from here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8189937&&#post8189937) for discussions about it.

That's what I was referring to, I didn't want to be blatant about it. :)

NO problem with HDCP regarding the 970 DVD player, but I ALWAYS leave the VP30 on.

Finally installed V1.10. Changes noted:

1. Still audio dropouts. 3, of 1-3 seconds, in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory last night. Not in the disk - backed up, played section, no dropout.

2. Still flaky on display profiles. After installing V1.10, setup 1080i and 720p display profiles. One day later, only 1080i was left, probably because that was the profile I was using when I turned off the pj and VP. #2, where the 720p was, had went back to 480p HDMI output. So I recreated both, saved both last night. This morning they are both there. Go figure.

3. At least the VP recognized everything in my system flawlessly this time - no hangups or crashes with my STB. So that is one step of improvement.

And video quality remains superb - my SD version of Chocolate Factory looked so gorgeous - at least as good as the mediocre HD-DVD demos I've seen at BB of the same film. But STILL the danged dropouts - no hdmi involved, toslink in, toslink out, from a Denon 1600 (which should be above reproach) to a very vanilla Yamaha receiver - RX-V1200.

Question to those of you using plasmas trough DVI. Can you get rid of the tearing? I have tried several plasmas and iScan HD, HD+ and VP30 all with the same problem. All fully matched with 1:1 pixel mapping.

Adjusting with the judder bar and when you get it smooth it leaves one single tearing going slowly up or down. When set to the framerate where it is the slowest it teares after changes to high contrast pictures.

Have also tried fiddling with H and V sync, but this has no effect.

Have also tried fiddling with H and V sync, but this has no effect.]Have also tried fiddling with H and V sync, but this has no effect.

I can't seem to find this in the manual, but how does one choose which H/V sync combo to use? Is it just trial and error or specific to an input, output, display type, etc?

I have been using VP30 after HD+ and I'm extremely happy with the performance, but there are couple of problems:
1. Random audio dropouts.
2. HDMI output looses picture when swithcing from one source to another. Picture comes back when I switch output type to analog and back. Switching between profiles does not help.
3. "Micro" judder when wathcing NTSC DVD's. Did not have this with HD+. Maybe could be corrected with correct settings.


I have vp30(sw1.10, 102 and SDI mods), Denon 1920(SDI, toslink), Topfield 5100 (RGBs, toslink) and hs60 projector.

Some primary settings I have used:
50 locked
60 unlocked
422 colorspace
720p50/p60
H+V-
Deinterlacing is auto.

Any hints for settings.

I have a LVM-42w2 display and your DVDO VP30. I have an HDMI connection and VP30-1.10 software update. The issue is that when I change the output display to 1080P-60 the images are masked (outlined in a ghostly line) and square pixilation occurs as blue squares in large black images. I have tried each software update with no success. I have replaced my HDMI cable, a shorter length.

Has anyone any experience with this issue and/or suggestions?

Hi Josh@DVDO,

Would it be possible to get an update on where you are with the audio dropout bug fix? It seems that more and more people are reporting this problem with fairly common equipment (yamaha amps and denon dvd players etc) so I must believe that DVDO have been able to replicate it in your labs and are aware of what the problem is.

Regards
Hans

Here's a link to an ISO file of the HDCP "fix"...

This is pretty sweet. If it works well it definitely puts to rest my HDCP concerns. Thanks for the info.

NO problem with HDCP regarding the 970 DVD player, but I ALWAYS leave the VP30 on.

Thanks, everyone for the suggestions ... I will give them a try. Has anyone found problems with the "alternative" firmware?

vfrjim ... I always leave the VP30 on as well. Are you using the BenQ PE8720 projector? If so, can you post or PM the serial number of your VP30 ... I was told that my VP30 was an early production run so maybe that is the cause of the problem. Thanks!

Thanks, everyone for the suggestions ... I will give them a try. Has anyone found problems with the "alternative" firmware?

vfrjim ... I always leave the VP30 on as well. Are you using the BenQ PE8720 projector? If so, can you post or PM the serial number of your VP30 ... I was told that my VP30 was an early production run so maybe that is the cause of the problem. Thanks!


No, I am using a Mits WD2000U projector. I do not know my serial number right now, but will reply later after I use it again and check it, probably tonight.

Jim

OPPO 970 works fine. I'm using it as a source for the VP30 without any problems.

I'm wondering whether you (or anyone else with a OPPO 970) could check whether your OPPO 970 triggers the AUTO priority setting even when it is OFF. I'll assume you are using the 970 with the HDMI output (480i) and have some type of digital audio connected from the 970 to the VP30.

Put the OPPO 970 as priority number 1 and have another device as priority number 2. Turn on the 970 and then select AUTO on the input. It should switch to the OPPO 970 since it is the first priority. Also turn on your number 2 device. Now turn off the 970 as let me know if the VP30 switches to the second device. Mine does not. It always stays locked on the OPPO 970 even when it is OFF. However, the VP30 INFO shows the OPPO 970 as "No signal". Thanks! SJ

Wierd one - since upgrading to 1.10, I can't get the vertical lines test pattern. It seems to be the same as the Checker Board pattern - the horizontal lines are fine. Is anyone else seeing this?

One other thing - thanks to Josh and the guys for fixing the audio problem with Denon amps which has plagued me since day 1. The "In case of invalid input signal the SPDIF transmitter wasn't set to mute mode." stops the amp going into direct mode all the time, and no doubt fixes many clicks and bangs for others.

Wierd one - since upgrading to 1.10, I can't get the vertical lines test pattern. It seems to be the same as the Checker Board pattern - the horizontal lines are fine. Is anyone else seeing this?
yes i have the same problem ever since fw 1.08: loss of horizontal resolution e.g. no separate vertical lines (fw 1.07 is ok). This means the two patterns you mention indeed look more or less the same. Image softness was mentioned by several posters, but no follow up or ack from dvdo sofar, nor a reply on my email report to dvdo. I wonder if it has something todo with the 2x oversampling introduced with fw 1.08. To prove this problem you need a reasonable serious scope to analyze the signals. I assume you are using analog output?

I have been using VP30 after HD+ and I'm extremely happy with the performance, but there are couple of problems:
1. Random audio dropouts.
2. HDMI output looses picture when swithcing from one source to another. Picture comes back when I switch output type to analog and back. Switching between profiles does not help.
3. "Micro" judder when wathcing NTSC DVD's. Did not have this with HD+. Maybe could be corrected with correct settings.


I have vp30(sw1.10, 102 and SDI mods), Denon 1920(SDI, toslink), Topfield 5100 (RGBs, toslink) and hs60 projector.

Some primary settings I have used:
50 locked
60 unlocked
422 colorspace
720p50/p60
H+V-
Deinterlacing is auto.

Any hints for settings.

1. I get a half a second audio drop, maybe once per movie (HDMI audio in, coax audio out) - oppo 970

2. the picture on mine always goes blue while swithcing sources - its the HDMI handshake, it only takes a couple of seconds (oppo 970, topfield 5000 masterpiece)

3. what is your display? I use an NEC 50" XR5, which works better with 60hz, so I convert all to 60 (Australia is 50hz) - I don't have any judder..... make sure your dvd player is not doing the NTSC to PAL conversion internally first..... select your TV to multi, so it passes the signal unchanged to the VP30 ..... I have 50hz, unlock (output 60) and 60hz locked (output 60) - most of my DVDs are R1, and the rest of my content is R4 (PAL) -

I was really worried about judder and the conversion of 50hz into 60hz..... I shouldn't be... the VP30 does a great job and the only time I notice a slight judder is on scrolling text..... otherwise its perfect!

I will start this with a disclaimer: please no smart-ass posts about how lazy I am for not searching this thread. I spent 40 minutes searching and still don't have a concrete answer (over 5000 posts could take the rest of the year) so here goes: I have a question for the experts in this field. I have recently purchased a new sony 46XBR2 and am quite disappointed with the SD performance and am looking for something to improve the quality. Would this scaler be the answer? How much improvement do you see in Cable feed SD with HD panels?

i too am interested as i will be buying this tv soon and thinking of this scaler. Jugdish69, do you know if your sony displays macroblocking when using a faroudja based player (ie. denon)?

yes i have the same problem ever since fw 1.08: loss of horizontal resolution e.g. no separate vertical lines (fw 1.07 is ok). This means the two patterns you mention indeed look more or less the same. Image softness was mentioned by several posters, but no follow up or ack from dvdo sofar, nor a reply on my email report to dvdo. I wonder if it has something todo with the 2x oversampling introduced with fw 1.08. To prove this problem you need a reasonable serious scope to analyze the signals. I assume you are using analog output?

Yes, there's definately something wrong with PAL image quality since 1.07 - hopefully the two problems are connected so it'll be easier to find. Let's hope we can get some feedback from DVDO - I've also posted them an email etc..

1. I get a half a second audio drop, maybe once per movie (HDMI audio in, coax audio out) - oppo 970

2. the picture on mine always goes blue while swithcing sources - its the HDMI handshake, it only takes a couple of seconds (oppo 970, topfield 5000 masterpiece)

3. what is your display? I use an NEC 50" XR5, which works better with 60hz, so I convert all to 60 (Australia is 50hz) - I don't have any judder..... make sure your dvd player is not doing the NTSC to PAL conversion internally first..... select your TV to multi, so it passes the signal unchanged to the VP30 ..... I have 50hz, unlock (output 60) and 60hz locked (output 60) - most of my DVDs are R1, and the rest of my content is R4 (PAL) -

I was really worried about judder and the conversion of 50hz into 60hz..... I shouldn't be... the VP30 does a great job and the only time I notice a slight judder is on scrolling text..... otherwise its perfect!

2. I loose image totally, it does not come back without switching to analog and back in vp30, maybe some other trick might work also.

3. My display is HS60 projector. Denon 1920 is connected using SDI connection and I do not know if it is possible to control NTSC to PAL conversion, I think it does not have any effect.

Yes, there's definately something wrong with PAL image quality since 1.07 - hopefully the two problems are connected so it'll be easier to find. Let's hope we can get some feedback from DVDO - I've also posted them an email etc..
Are you sure it it connected to PAL? After all,the vertical line pattern is constructed by the VP30 and is emitted directly to the analog out. No PAL or NTSC in the signal path. Also i checked the pattern @50 and @60Hz, makes no difference, both loss of resulution. Of course it *could* be that only the buildin testpaterns have this problem and not real DVD data, to prove that we would need a similar vertical line pattern on a DVD, which is not possible due to DVD resolution :(

True, it may not be connected to PAL at all, but I've only really tested it with PAL sources. Your're right though, if I output the test signals at 60Hz, I still see the same problem, but I did have a PAL input on at the time (just forced to 60Hz). Il'll try it with a NTSC DVD later and see what happens.

i too am interested as i will be buying this tv soon and thinking of this scaler. Jugdish69, do you know if your sony displays macroblocking when using a faroudja based player (ie. denon)?

Will find out soon when my OPPO comes.

yes i have the same problem ever since fw 1.08: loss of horizontal resolution e.g. no separate vertical lines (fw 1.07 is ok). This means the two patterns you mention indeed look more or less the same. Image softness was mentioned by several posters, but no follow up or ack from dvdo sofar, nor a reply on my email report to dvdo. I wonder if it has something todo with the 2x oversampling introduced with fw 1.08. To prove this problem you need a reasonable serious scope to analyze the signals. I assume you are using analog output?

It seems a hardreset solved this for several people in europe atleast. I just checked analog (1.10) 1024x768 out to a vga monitor and the signals are clean i can see both the horizontal and vertical test signals just fine.

Daniel.

Wierd one - since upgrading to 1.10, I can't get the vertical lines test pattern. It seems to be the same as the Checker Board pattern - the horizontal lines are fine. Is anyone else seeing this?
No, it's ok here. Sure you got the pixel mapping right?

No one got any idea for my tearing problem?

No, it's ok here. Sure you got the pixel mapping right?

No one got any idea for my tearing problem?

Yep, got the pixel mapping OK - or at least it's the same as it was with 1.07 and and however much I mess around with the horizontal size on the display I can't see vertical lines at all. This is really wierd. Anyone got any ideas of anything else which would effect this? I've done a hard reset already - might try another one later - just in case. BTW - do you have an ABT 102 - wonder if that makes any difference (can't see that it should for the test patterns though)

Yep, got the pixel mapping OK - or at least it's the same as it was with 1.07 and and however much I mess around with the horizontal size on the display I can't see vertical lines at all. This is really wierd. Anyone got any ideas of anything else which would effect this? I've done a hard reset already - might try another one later - just in case. BTW - do you have an ABT 102 - wonder if that makes any difference (can't see that it should for the test patterns though)

Yes, I use the ABT 102. how's the checkerboard? is the pixels ok there?

Yep, got the pixel mapping OK - or at least it's the same as it was with 1.07 and and however much I mess around with the horizontal size on the display I can't see vertical lines at all. This is really wierd. Anyone got any ideas of anything else which would effect this? I've done a hard reset already - might try another one later - just in case. BTW - do you have an ABT 102 - wonder if that makes any difference (can't see that it should for the test patterns though)
I think ABT102 should not matter, 1) not in the signal path and 2) problem was not there with fw 1.07 and ABT 102. One migth speculate that the analog out signal since fw 1.08 is changed (or degraded) somewhat, to the extend some displays are not able anymore to show the vertical line pattern. Maybe we should mention what we have:

Vertical Line Testpattern not seperated anymore using:
* VP30 with fw 1.08, 1.09, 1.09a and 1.10, after factory reset and hard reset
* ANALOG out 852x480 RGB or YUV does not matter, 50 or 60Hz does not matter
* Screen: Panasonic plasma TH8 SD screen

Hmm - I wonder if this is a Panasonic thing. My setup is the same - (except my Pana is much older - mine's a series 3).

I use HDMI-DVI

Maybe we should mention what we have:

Vertical Line Testpattern not seperated anymore using:
* VP30 with fw 1.08, 1.09, 1.09a and 1.10, after factory reset and hard reset
* ANALOG out 852x480 RGB or YUV does not matter, 50 or 60Hz does not matter
* Screen: Panasonic plasma TH8 SD screen

Thank you, Pete for this information. Without knowing this information, it makes it very difficult to recreate your issue.

We have verified that with some output resolutions (using analog output) the 'Vertical Lines' test pattern is not being displayed correctly. We will correct this as soon as possible.

We have verified that with some output resolutions (using analog output) the 'Vertical Lines' test pattern is not being displayed correctly. We will correct this as soon as possible.
Josh,

Good to hear this is now confirmed. Is this problem only associated with the test pattern(s), as your post suggest, or is there indeed -as some posters indicate- also a problem with the processed (e.g. dvd) signal?

Hi Josh

Many thanks for the confirmation - I also had this on an email from Aaron this afternoon. I'd have the same question as Slonk - is this just a test pattern issue, or could this be the clue to the "soft" image some of us are seeing post 1.07 - seems a bit of a co-incidence that test pattern and image issues appeared at the same time. I've been forwards and backwards between 1.07 and 1.08 and there's certainly a big difference in image quality.

pete S

I have just taken possession of a VP30.

My current equipment is as follows:

Mitsubishi 52628 DLP (1080p - with wobulation - does NOT accept a 1080p direct feed via inputs)

Toshiba HD-A1 DVD
Denon 3910 DVD
Oppo 971 DVD via (DVI-HDMI)
Dish Network ViP 211 HD Satellite Receiver
Denon 3806 AVR

Current connections:

Toshiba A1 connected to Denon 3806 via HDMI for both audio/video. - HDMI out to Mits.

Denon 3910 HDMI - Monoprice HDMI 5x1 switch to Mits (video) Audio is Denon Link III to 3806

Oppo HDMI - Monoprice HDMI 5x1 swithc to Mits (video); Audio coax to 3806

Dish Network 211 HD receiver HDMI - Mono 5x1 to Mits (video); Audio Toslink to 3806.

I am hoping that this will give me more leeway in tweaking my TV and help with standard def satellite signals. What effect, if any, will it have with my HD DVD player? The TV has been ISF calibrated. Anything I should expect with the above units? Any potential problems I should be aware of?

run everything thru the VP30, you will get various controls for each source, underscan ability, various tweaking measures, you will be 1080i in and 1080i out my guess ? there is nothing to worry about that process, the VP30 will improve even with no scaling or etc.

using 1080i in and 1080i out my sources have always looked better from the VP30 than connected directly to my display at 1080i

for example I found that on my setup, the Toshiba HD-DVD connected to the VP30 at 1080i(my output is 1080i also) needed a +2 adjustment of the Y/C delay to make it perfect and a +4 in saturation, little things like that don't seem like much but they go miles to make a more complete and closest to perfect possible image

I also use the new Gamma on the VP30 for my CRT projector, perfect scary blacks and a little more shadow details ;)

-Gary

I am hoping that this will give me more leeway in tweaking my TV and help with standard def satellite signals. What effect, if any, will it have with my HD DVD player? The TV has been ISF calibrated. Anything I should expect with the above units? Any potential problems I should be aware of?


You may consider ditching the 2 dvd players and going with the Oppo 970hd for feeding the VP30 HDMI 480i. It can be had for around $150.

Thank you, Pete for this information. Without knowing this information, it makes it very difficult to recreate your issue.

We have verified that with some output resolutions (using analog output) the 'Vertical Lines' test pattern is not being displayed correctly. We will correct this as soon as possible.

Wow we traced it.... impressive..


Daniel.

Josh,

Is it just the test patterns showing wrong or the output timing having issues? Could this be linked to the sporadic issue of "lower resolution" reports we had a while back and could not verify?

Josh,

Is it just the test patterns showing wrong or the output timing having issues? Could this be linked to the sporadic issue of "lower resolution" reports we had a while back and could not verify?

I was kind of hoping that too Oferlaor, The reports started with 1.07 where oversampling on analog changed would be nice to have this one found its been hanging over the 1.07-1.10 releases for a while now.

Daniel.

By way of helping Josh, could all of us who believe that we see "softness" with post 1.07 over analog and/or who have the test pattern problem with no vertical bars post the resolution of our screens. The feedback I've had from DVDO is that the the test pattern problem at least is resolution specific.

My output rez is 852*480 @ 50 Hz - Softness - Y, Test Pattern - Y

I was kind of hoping that too Oferlaor, The reports started with 1.07 where oversampling on analog changed would be nice to have this one found its been hanging over the 1.07-1.10 releases for a while now.

Daniel.

Hi Daniel

I think you mean post 1.07 - i.e 1.07 was OK - everything after that has had problems - correct?

pete S

cyborgx,

is this quote from a PM you received from Josh? If so, please remove it - what you're doing is forcing DVDO to commit to a feature they obviously have no intent on committing themselves on.

Please refrain from "outing" personal communication.

The PM was to William (see previously in this thread).

My comment on Passthrough information to come from Josh was a post by him on this thread.

Ofelaor, I know you are only trying to be nice, protect the relationship with DVDO but you are the last person I expected to make this kind of question without first checking the thread.

FWIW, I'm using the RGBHV outputs to feed my pj; while the dropouts aren't gone, and Display Profiles are nothing to bet the house on, my picture quality seems to be improved. If you did nothing - then it is just the halo effect. But if you did do something, it shows up on my display. Colors seem richer, more saturated. Deadwood in sd is even watchable (when I remember to output at 480i, and use my ABT card.)

But otoh, I don't see any verticle lines on your test pattern either. Avia is fine, so I'm guessing it is the VP, not the pj.

I agree that's tacky. Also don't mince words. He said they "intend" which is far different then "we are". Any number of road blocks could stop that from being a reality.

Jeff

The same does not go for you Jeff. If you are going to insult people with comments like "tacky" then you should read all the posts in this thread on the subject, not just take one post in isolation. The promise was made in an article to a magazine (widescreen as I remember) linked to on the DVDO website, and has also been mentioned in many other posts here in this thread.

Madshi: thanks for putting him straight.

Don't want to start an argument here, just don't like being insulted by someone who just makes kneejerk comments.

On the "image softness" front, I (think) i noticed a strange thing earlier this evening. I'm using 1.10. The image is softer and contains more artifacts than 1.07. I was messing around with various output resolutions this evening (to see if it was related to the vertical lines test pattern issue). The really strange thing is that when I retrieved the profile I'd saved earlier, I'm sure the image is much improved. Now, this should be exactly the same as before I was messing (I saved it just before starting to play around), but it looks much better (I think - or perhaps I'm jus kidding myself). Anyone else feel like trying this out?

!!! URGENT !!!


I need HELP !!!

I a new German owner of a VP30 and after I had upgraded the deinterlacing card, I was trying to install the new software. Unfortunately while I was installing, my computer got an error and froze. Thus the install process was incomplete. Afterwards the VP30 display said "Serious error 3. Contact your dealer". Again and again, I switched it off and took power on. But still it shows "Serious Error 3". The reset with pressing Menu & Exit buttons also lead to this error message.

Before I was working on installing the deinterlacing card, the VP30 was working right. Now it is not running anymore. Does anyone have an idea how to solve this problem???


I would be happy about every response....

You could try pulling the cord from the wall, let it sit a while (overnight?) Otherwise, no, tho you could also disconnect all input devices. Especially in the HDMI inputs. Good Luck.

cyborgx,

I'm not protecting anything, I did do a search and came up empty & Since I saw no official word of this from Josh myself, I acted the way I did. I apologise for that.

When swttching between the video and film modem should I be seeing a change in the picture? Have there been any updates on some instructions for the test dvd that came with the ABT102 deinterlacer?

Often you will - sometimes you won't. Of course, you will only see a difference, or even have the choice, with 480i input. On the Eagles Farewell Tour, I see a day and night difference; likewise, SD Deadwood on HBO - was using wrong input, no 480i - looked a generation worse than with the ABT. Switched back to component 480i, kicked in video mode, looked fine. Realizing, this is on a 10' wide screen - your results may vary.

I'm wondering whether you (or anyone else with a OPPO 970) could check whether your OPPO 970 triggers the AUTO priority setting even when it is OFF. I'll assume you are using the 970 with the HDMI output (480i) and have some type of digital audio connected from the 970 to the VP30.

Put the OPPO 970 as priority number 1 and have another device as priority number 2. Turn on the 970 and then select AUTO on the input. It should switch to the OPPO 970 since it is the first priority. Also turn on your number 2 device. Now turn off the 970 as let me know if the VP30 switches to the second device. Mine does not. It always stays locked on the OPPO 970 even when it is OFF. However, the VP30 INFO shows the OPPO 970 as "No signal". Thanks! SJ

Doesn't anyone have an OPPO 970 that they could try this with? Please :)

the auto priority didn't work for me either, I have on manual select ..... (I have the 970 also)

that said, I have many components on at the same time ..... whici is not the best for auto priority ....

SJHT:
I just took my entire system apart for re-tiling the living room. If I get the job done this weekend I could tell you next week how well the auto priority works.

I think you mean post 1.07 - i.e 1.07 was OK - everything after that has had problems - correct?



Maybe I won't upgrade from 1.07 this weekend....

The quality of the FW "upgrades" on the VP30 has been...ah...a bit spotty.

The new DVDO VP50 has been released!!!! full 1080i deinterlacing and scaling.

I will wait until Josh starts the official thread before asking too many questions, AVS trade-in details, etc....

Cool stuff!

Cheers,

Marcelo

Huh!!

I see the VP50 on the DVDO website! Is there going to be a trade in program for the VP30!?!

I can have my VP30 boxed up and ready to go in an hour. DVDO open on Saturdays? :D

It won't even take me a hour, mines in a box right now for awhile anyway.
So I just need a shipping label to slap on the box.

All I need to do is to check the gas in my car. I should get pretty good mileage this time of the night :D

"DVDO iScan VP50 Shipping Fall 2006. Orders placed today will be held in backlog and be shipped in order of receipt. Your credit card will not be charged until your order is shipped. You have the option to select a faster shipping method at checkout, but be aware that will only apply once the VP50 ships."

I can hardly wait!

ah! the VP50, this is the scaler to own, talk about one exciting Fall for DVDO

http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp50.php

R/G/B and up to 1024 point Gamma individual RGB correction :eek:

people are literally going to kill for this one ;) (hopefully not) :D

-Gary

A second HDMI output would have been nice.

http://www.dvdo.com/documents/DVDO_iScan_vp50_datasheet.pdf
http://www.dvdo.com/documents/DVDO_iScanVP50_PG_ABT_081706.pdf

-Gary

:( Looks like my fear about DVDO failing to fix the audio dropout bug before releasing the VP50 is about to come true.... Of course I want one but im finding it hard to justify the money considering the VP30 STILL has bugs in it from launch and in all likeihood the VP50 is also going to come with 9 months and counting of dodgy firmware upgrades and probably the audio dropout bug too....disapointed with DVDO at the moment...

Josh,

Congrats with VP50. DVDO has a track record for quickly dropping FW support after new models are available. If a model is completely stable this can be understood. However, i feel there is a consensus that the current top model -VP30- does not qualify as fully stable yet. From the last 100 or so postings we have the following usability problems (i'm sure i missed a few ;-):

1. image problems (witnessed with vertical test pattern)
2. audio dropout's
3. non-working discrete codes (stop working after some time)
4 .profile problems
5. gamma control not usable >1.6?

The first one is confirmed and promised to be solved soon, the 2nd and 3rth is being looked into, and i'm not sure about the status of the 4rth. Also, according to your earlier statement gamma control is still partly buggy.

Would you be so kind to comment on DVDO's policy towards these remaining usability issues?

Please, this tearing problem is driving me nuts. Is there any adjustment or anything that can help regarding this problem.

I have to plasmas both with LG panels. One XGA and one 852x480.

Running trough DVI.

HDMI/DVI VP50--- VP30--- VP20
(all other resolutions) Passed Through --- Not Accepted* --- Not Accepted*



*With the current software in the VP2 and VP30. Software that allows these signals to pass through will be available on our website as a free user-installable update.

So, where can I download the update that allows this?

Thanks

Will there be a special AVS buy like with the VP30?!?

I see there is now an official VP50 thread in this forum.

With the new 50 coming out what does this mean for the 1080p pass-through firmware update on the 30?

:( Looks like my fear about DVDO failing to fix the audio dropout bug before releasing the VP50 is about to come true.... Of course I want one but im finding it hard to justify the money considering the VP30 STILL has bugs in it from launch and in all likeihood the VP50 is also going to come with 9 months and counting of dodgy firmware upgrades and probably the audio dropout bug too....disapointed with DVDO at the moment...

We watched HELL BOY last night. Had at least 4 audio dropouts during the movie. I always get "honey, why does that do that" :( I'll say this once again..... This NEVER happened with my old iSCAN HD. SJ

It doesn't happen with my VP30.

the auto priority didn't work for me either, I have on manual select ..... (I have the 970 also)

that said, I have many components on at the same time ..... whici is not the best for auto priority ....

Can DVDO comment on how a component can be selected that shows NO SIGNAL to the VP30?

It doesn't happen with my VP30.

You never get an audio drop out? I have a Sunfire TGIV. Any other digital input never has dropouts. If I route the audio device directly to the TGIV is doesn't drop out. Only when I go through the VP30....

... does not qualify as fully stable yet...

That could be the understatement of the forum so far....

You never get an audio drop out? I have a Sunfire TGIV. Any other digital input never has dropouts. If I route the audio device directly to the TGIV is doesn't drop out. Only when I go through the VP30....


I go from the VP30 to a Denon 3806. The only time I have a dropout is from one of my HDTiVos but that is from the HDTiVo since if I backup it always occurs in the exact same spot. I watched TV for 2.5 hours straight last night and no dropouts. Although this was from an SD TiVo.

What happened to the 2X horizontal oversampling upgrade in version 1.1? It no longer shows in DVDOs' site text describing this versions new features.

Paul

R/G/B and up to 1024 point Gamma individual RGB correction :eek:

Can you explain the significance of this to a numpty (me)?

Ta

Only when I go through the VP30....


Precisely why I don't.... ;)

With the new 50 coming out what does this mean for the 1080p pass-through firmware update on the 30?
Just noticed this on the DVDO site.


HDMI/DVI
(1080p with or without HDCP) Not Accepted*
*With the current software in the VP2 and VP30. Software that allows these signals to pass through will be available on our website as a free user-installable update. (http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_cf.php)


Well is that not official conformation and when might it happen?

William I would say that is a confirmation dude ;)

-Gary

Precisely why I don't.... ;)

So you loose out on (and I am quoting from the DVDO site here)....

"Flexible Digital and Analog Audio switching and routing – four digital audio inputs and one analog audio input with two digital audio outputs (both active)"

"ABT's Precision AV LipSync™ intelligent digital audio delay technology to match Audio & Video timing"

By my count that is 2 features out of 16 listed on the product web site that cant be used by a fair proportion of users because it doesnt work correctly. I am going to put on my flame resistant suit here and say this....

"This is peeving me big time DVDO. A BIG reason for me getting the VP30 was an all in one video and audio switching environment. I only have a 42 inch plasma and not one that can do native rate so video is not as important to me as with most users who use it only for video deinterlacing and scaling. I do get a video improvement but not as much as I know the device is capable of. When I can afford the projection system I want to get then I know it will help a lot more different BUT until then the VP30 was meant to form the heart of my system taking care of all video and audio switching.

At the moment I have to bypass everything to my amp or else the wife and friends think its a joke I spent so much on a "box that cant even do sound properly" (an actual quote).

My amp currently has one free digital input and doesnt support HDMI. PS3, HDDVD and Blueray are all coming to Europe in the next 12 months. With the VP30 working as it should that would have been no problem - 3 HDMI cables and no audio worries but bypassing the VP30 leaves me with huge connectivity problems.

Would DVDO considert re-imbursing me a few hundred dollars for a feature in their product that doesnt work. If they did I would gladly call it a "Video Switch" and look elsewhere for an audio solution to my problems.

I just wish they would admit ....

1. That the problem actually exists - they keep saying that they cant replicate it yet many people in this forum suffer from it and with very common equipment.

2. That they also probably dont have a clue how to fix it and now probably dont care to fix it since the VP50 is out shortly

I am also curious to see if the VP20 suffers from this. Are there any VP20 owners out there that also get audio dropouts. If not then we may have our answer that this is indeed a hardware bug... who knows... but its obvious DVDO wouldnt tell us even if they knew...

Still wearing suit and still peeved with DVDO :(

Muller I would not go as far as to say that a fair porportion of users have audio dropouts, if the problem was that bad then we would hear more about, we only hear complaints of the ones it doesn't work for, most people that use a product will never speak of it because they don't have issues, how long would this thread be with all the issues removed from various very small amounts of users?

I understand your frustration, I have plenty of my own with many products way too often(including some dropouts with the VP30), you just have one of those combos of gear that produce dropouts sadly :(

-Gary

I thought that the .10 firmware fixed that ? Or are dropouts a different issue?

Muller I would not go as far as to say that a fair porportion of users have audio dropouts, if the problem was that bad then we would hear more about, we only hear complaints of the ones it doesn't work for, most people that use a product will never speak of it because they don't have issues, how long would this thread be with all the issues removed from various very small amounts of users?

I understand your frustration, I have plenty of my own with many products way too often(including some dropouts with the VP30), you just have one of those combos of gear that produce dropouts sadly :(

-Gary

Is there any combination that does not produce dropouts? I never had audio problems with HD+ and exactly the same setup. I would understand problems with HDMI but I do not use it for audio.

This tread is for that. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=708432

I haven't noticed any audio problem since 1.07.

I switched from DirecTV to Dish last week and since changing from the HR10-250 to the Dish VIP-622 I have not had a single audio dropout after watching maybe 10 hours so far. I usually got 2-3 audio dropouts per hour on the HR10-250. I really think that there are some bad chips out there that don't properly buffer and/or encode/decode MPEG audio properly. I've had so many different pieces of equipment that have had audio dropout problems that I have to believe that the reason we see some companies chasing their tails in this arena is that there are some poorly manufactured chips/hardware in certain equipment.

I'm not blaming the audio drops on the HR10-250 or my Yamaha receiver or the VP30 because pinpointing which one "causes" the problem seems nearly impossible, but it seems to me like some of these devices just get "confused" at times. When you go back and play the same section, you don't get the dropout the second time, but technically this could be as much the sending device as the receiving device! Either the sending device (DVR for example) is getting confused under certain conditions and sending a blip of non-compliant data stream or the receiving device (VP30, amp) is getting confused after a certain sequence of events and is not properly interpretting a compatible data stream packet when it should. The absence of the problem when replayed the second time could be due simply to the fact that there is no way to recreate exactly the same conditions on the DVR just by rewinding!

Even when you remove the VP30 from the circuit and don't get the problem any more, that doesn't conclusively point to the VP30 as the cause of the problem! Sometimes an incompatible or malformed data packet can be read (or ignored) by one device while the others have problems with the "bad" data. This can happen, for example, if a certain "feature" of the data stream is needed or is being used by the VP30 but your receiver, on the other hand, doesn't care so it ignores that portion of the data. Insert a problem into that portion of the data and the VP30 has a problem with it while the receiver (amp) doesn't because it is ignoring it.

Part of the problem here is in recreating the exact conditions that caused the data stream problem. The problem could be one of buffer under/overrun under certain very specific conditions, heat combined with certain data packet formats, or even RF interference between two devices that only manifests itself under certain very sporadic conditions. While some of the problems are obviously software, sometimes we are left with various hardware related problems or interactions, and I think we might be there with the VP30.

My .02

Mike

I don't think 10 hours is long enough to say for certain the dropouts are gone. Each software update seems like it has cured the problem for me but the dropouts return eventually. The source doesn't seem to matter. I've gotten dropouts on all my digital sources eventually.

- Collin

This tread is for that. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=708432

I haven't noticed any audio problem since 1.07.


You're lucky. My problems have been made worse with both 1.09 and 1.10. At first with 1.10 I went about 4 hours (a record) without a dropout, but since then I get about 1 every 1/2 hour and the dropout is now 2 to 3 times as long as it used to be with 1.0 and 1.07 firmwares. I'm using 1 SDI input and 2 DVI to HDMI inputs; all 3 get dropouts (2 toslink and 1 coaxial) into a Onkyo receiver. All 3 devices also have about the same dropout rate.

Like many of you out there, I have a fairly sophisticated setup and unfortunately suffer from audio dropouts. Frequently? NO. Bothersome but not show stopping. The dropouts last for about 1-2 seconds when they occur. Most dropouts occur with the SA8300DVR as the source. In many cases it is the source that is having a problem. It is independent of routing as it will happen when A&V are both on the HDMI cable, and When V is on the HDMI cable and I have Audio through an optical input. It happens on DVD's. About once per 2 or 3 DVD's played. DVD input is component with audio on Digital Coaxial. I play music in my theater at times. The source is either uncompressed DTS CD's ripped as WAV files, or 96 KHZ two channel PCM ripped from standard CD's. The unit doing the work is a Roku Photobridge, getting the music files from the house server on a 100 mb/s LAN. I do not recall ever getting a drop out while listening to music (Wav/DTS 5.1 or MPG). The Roku puts out 720p video while the music is playing with various choices of what video is shown. The video is component, the audio digital coaxial. No dropouts as far as I can recall.

What does it all mean? It means it is a tough problem that is dependent on the source and just how the data streams are being presented by the source.

I know that DVDO agrees that the problem is not fully resolved and they are working on it at a high priority. They do not want the problem in the VP50, although I suspect if it shows up there it will be the same SOB problem.

Muller I would not go as far as to say that a fair porportion of users have audio dropouts, if the problem was that....

Well her in lies the problem. Every now and then I think that maybe I am the only one but then your will always get three or four posts just after a comment saying that others are also experiencing it. The simple tuth is that if I bypass the VP30 I get ZERO dropouts on any sources. Put the VP30 back in the loop and I get dropouts on every source. This is not a cable or sat poor signal problem but a bug in the way the VP30 is outputing data to my processor. I have even gone to the extremes of replacing all my source and output cables to try and fix this. Now I admit that my Tag Mclaren processor is not that common but others with Yamaha amps are saying the same thing and they are common. If these common amps are experiencing problems then

1. That must account for more than one or two users having the problem
2. Provide DVDO with an easier method of testing for and trying to resolve the problem.

I informed DVDO of this bug days after receiving my VP30 and it is 7 months and counting and didly s**t has been done about it. Funny but I have also submitted other bugs that I was experiencing, all video related, and got almost instant email replies and all were fixed in subsequent firmware updates. BUT with this bug I never got any replies and I get the distinct feeling DVDO are desperate to stick their collective heads in the sand over this one. I think I can recall maybe one forum reply in this entire thread where Josh sort of mentioned its existance and asked for people to send in configs experiencing the problems. I did and I know others also did because they posted that they had. So what did DVDO do with that feedback????

If I was the only one experiencing it then sure I could stand back to more common bugs and let them get priority but other are experiencing problems too and comeon it has been 7 months. As things stand the VP30 is probably going to go end of firmware support as soon as the VP50 launches so where would that leave me then???. All I want to know is the following from Josh

1. What have they done so far to investigate this bug?
2. Do they believe they can fix it or work around it?
3. When, if ever, can we expect a fix?

Personally I think there is more chance of the Royals making the playoffs than Josh actually answering any of these. Still very dissapointed with DVDO so called support :(

PS: Sorry if that offended any Kansas City fans. It was just an example, honest.

You're lucky. My problems have been made worse with both 1.09 and 1.10. At first with 1.10 I went about 4 hours (a record) without a dropout, but since then I get about 1 every 1/2 hour and the dropout is now 2 to 3 times as long as it used to be with 1.0 and 1.07 firmwares. I'm using 1 SDI input and 2 DVI to HDMI inputs; all 3 get dropouts (2 toslink and 1 coaxial) into a Onkyo receiver. All 3 devices also have about the same dropout rate.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I have to agree that the dropouts are now worse and longer than with previous software versions. I'm also now on 1.1 SJ

Just noticed this on the DVDO site.


HDMI/DVI
(1080p with or without HDCP) Not Accepted*
*With the current software in the VP2 and VP30. Software that allows these signals to pass through will be available on our website as a free user-installable update. (http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_cf.php)


Well is that not official conformation and when might it happen?

I posted this on the prior page......

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8240169&&#post8240169

Now that I'm thinking about it, I have to agree that the dropouts are now worse and longer than with previous software versions. I'm also now on 1.1 SJ
It's all kind of wierd isn't it. Since I installed vs 1.10 a week or so ago, I've had a major improvement with the audio over my previous Vs 1.07. I can now hear DD out of 2 of my SD sources that I couldn't get any ouput from at all before - I had to set them to PCM to get them through. Having said that though, I've had one occassion where I again got nothing out of one of the SD sources. I was able to get it back again though relatively easily by just switching to a dead input source. Before it required a fair bit of work.

Lockouts also seem to have improved. Before, I had to do all sorts of dancing routines to get a picture back - everything just short of a Master Reset. Audio dropouts I think are much the same as with Vs 1.07 for me - still the odd one but always less than one second in duration.

Trying to output 1080p 48Hz to my projector (HD10K) from a 1080i 60Hz HD-DVD input. The picture is very unstable (my HTPC works great at 1080p 48Hz). Can you take a 1080i 60Hz input and field scan then convert to 1080p 48Hz to eliminate judder or must I stick with 1080p 60Hz? Would this work or do you need true deinterlacing to accomplish 1080i 60Hz to 1080p 48Hz?

I do not think that the VP30 will handle 1080i film sources to 48/72 conversion

I was bummed about that way back when the VP30 came out, as I like to run 1080i at 72hz, SD dvd works perfect of course, but 1080i film sources won't work at 1080i/72hz

Dale explained this in a post somewhere, I am too big of a moron to understand or explain the specifics

I think a VP50 may be in order for you ;)

-Gary

I now have a couple of questions that someone perhaps could answer:

I have a VP30 with the ABT102 card and firmware 1.07.
My TV is a Sony 50" 3LCD rear projection unit, model nr. KDF-E50A11E (US model nr. has 10 at the end, UK has 12). This is a native 1280x720 set.

1) For TV, I have an SD digital cable box, and since this is europe and this box is getting old, it only has a SCART connector w/RGB for an output.

To connect this to the VP30, I am therefore using a SCART --> 4 RCA (RGB+Sync)cable.

From the VP30 to the TV I use a high grade HDMI --> HDMI cable.

I have noticed recently that when I switch channels, and the screen goes black for half a second, I can see a lot of horisontal noise - hard to describe, but it looks like analog noise, horisontal wiggly lines covering the screen.
It's not really noticeable in the image, almost exclusively in the black parts of an image, for instance if there are black bars on the sides (4:3), or as mentioned when I switch channels and the whole screen goes black for half a second.

The cable I use is very short and very high grade, and in addition I have put a big lump of a ferrite magnet on it (have also tried without that).

-Is this noise caused by the SCART RGB to RGB/S 'conversion' that the VP30 does?

Because if I connect the TV directly to the digital cable box with a SCART to SCART cable, this noise is not present.
Or could it be that the extra sharpness that the VP30 offers, makes the noise clearer?

And:

2) Perhaps this is linked to the previous question:

I send 1280x720 @ 50Hz to the set (it also accepts @60Hz, but there's some judder then, since my sources are PAL).

Now - when I use the pixel mapping test patterns in the VP30, the vertical test pattern is "calm" and stable, and at a moderate grey, so to speak.

The horisontal line pattern however is a LOT brighter. The lines are clearly defined there as well, but the whole screen becomes very bright compared to the vertical pattern, and it 'pulsates'/"flashes".

This is the same if I use the TVs dynamic iris or turn it off, so that's not to blame.

Any ideas? Are these two linked, you think?

I haven't had time to check if it's the same when DVD is the source (HDMI 576i), I'll check that soon.

Just "downgraded" to fw 1.07 because I had quite a few instances, where the VP30 would loose the "lock" on de-interlacing and the picture was quite soft (with pal sources).

Now I'm back to 1.07 and the image quality has improved big time! Hopefulle DVDO will fix this bug soon.

Just ordered a VP30 to go with my Panny 9UK, Oppo 971H and Explorer 3250 STB. My goal is to improve SD from the Explorer and gain some control over saturation and hue not available thru HDMI stright into 9UK. Pretty happy with 971H ouput straight into 9UK and have two HDMI inputs to work with so was thinking about leaving 971H connected to one HDMI and have the VP30 handle signals from STB into the other HDMI input. Is this the smart way to go, or should I run the 971H thru the VP30 as well? I guess my real question is: What's the smart way to configure this suite of equipment to get the most out of it? I am really an audiophile and am learning the video hobby, so any help is greatly appreciated! Love the forum...

I do not think that the VP30 will handle 1080i film sources to 48/72 conversion

I was bummed about that way back when the VP30 came out, as I like to run 1080i at 72hz, SD dvd works perfect of course, but 1080i film sources won't work at 1080i/72hz

Dale explained this in a post somewhere, I am too big of a moron to understand or explain the specifics

I think a VP50 may be in order for you ;)

-Gary
It must be related to the use of field scaling verses deinterlacing. Looks like I need to upgrade to the VP50. I sure hope the upgrade program is affordable plus gives credit for the deinterlacing card. On a side note: What does DVDO do with all the trade in models?

It must be related to the use of field scaling verses deinterlacing. Looks like I need to upgrade to the VP50. I sure hope the upgrade program is affordable plus gives credit for the deinterlacing card. On a side note: What does DVDO do with all the trade in models?

They will be rebuild into vp70's and sold back to us next year !

Daniel.

They will be rebuild into vp70's and sold back to us next year !

Daniel.

:D
Might have to UV pen mark the inside of the case before then. ;)

I'm estimating about $1500 trade-in with ABT102d, any more would be nice as us internationals have to pay an extra $250.

I posted a similar question over in the VP50 forum, but figured I try for some feedback here as well.

I'm using the VP30/ABT102 with a 60" SXRD (XBR1) and love this setup. Picture quality is excellent on both SD/DVD and HD. I'm very interested in the added features of the VP50, but am not sure I can take full advantage of them in my setup. The XBR1 is a 1080p set, but only accepts 720p/1080i inputs. The internal deinterlacer is quite good, from what I can tell anyway.

It seems that I'd could potentially see a benefit with 720p broadcasts using the VP50, but not with 1080i (since I can't send the XBR1 a 1080p signal). I could send everything to the TV as 720p, but I'd rather not loose resolution on 1080i sources.

Just curious about others thoughts who might be using the same, or similar, setup as me and are looking at the VP50.

The best (albeit pricey) solution would be to sell my XBR1 and pick up an XBR2 this fall, but I'm not convinced I want to go that route yet.

Thanks for any input.

Any suggestions on how to hook up my A1 to the VP30 to get DD+, True HD audio via HDMI connection?

Any suggestions on how to hook up my A1 to the VP30 to get DD+, True HD audio via HDMI connection?
You can't actually get DD+ or TrueHD over HDMI at this time. That requires HDMI 1.3 which isn't here yet. You can decode these formats to 5.1 channel PCM in the A1 and pass that over HDMI to a HDMI receiver.

However, I've never gotten this to work with the VP30 between the A1 and my Yamaha HTR-5990 receiver. In early firmware versions this setup caused the A1 to output something other than 5.1 channel PCM. In recent version I get 5.1 channel PCM, but there is a loud continuous high pitched tone overlaid on the audio.

My workaround so far has been to bypass the VP30 and connect the A1 directly to one of the HDMI inputs on my receiver, which then goes via HDMI to my projector. The VP30 output connects to the other receiver input. Another option would be connect the 5.1 channel analog outputs from the A1 directly to your receiver and use HDMI through the VP30 for video only. I have not tried that option.

I reported this some time ago but I don't think fixing it is high priority with so few A1s and HDMI receivers out there.

I have my HD-A1 currently setup as follows---HD-A1>Denon 3806>VP30>display----works fine.

Hmmm, no responses from DVDO since they announced the VP50, cmon' DVDO, I hope we are not forgotten regarding our problems with the VP30 in regards to "passing" resolutions and audio issues.

Set the A1 to output a "bitstream". It works fine for me

I have a VP30 with the ABT102 card and firmware 1.07.
My TV is a Sony 50" 3LCD rear projection unit, model nr. KDF-E50A11E (US model nr. has 10 at the end, UK has 12). This is a native 1280x720 set.

{cut}

2)

-I send 1280x720 @ 50Hz to the set (it also accepts @60Hz, but there's some judder then, since my sources are PAL).
Now - when I use the pixel mapping test patterns in the VP30, the vertical test pattern is "calm" and stable, and at a moderate grey, so to speak.
The horisontal line pattern however is a LOT brighter. The lines are clearly defined there as well, but the whole screen becomes very bright compared to the vertical pattern, and it 'pulsates'/"flashes".
This is the same if I use the TVs dynamic iris or turn it off, so that's not to blame.
Any ideas? Are these two linked, you think?
I haven't had time to check if it's the same when DVD is the source (HDMI 576i), I'll check that soon.


OK, I don't have the horisontal background noise on DVD as I have with the cable tuner, so I guess there is somehow introduced some noise when the VP30 converts from SCART RGB to whatever it converts it to using a SCART --> RGB+Sync cable.

Anyway... This is what I still need answered:

Does the much brighter and pulsating horisontal pixel mapping test pattern (as opposed to the 'calm', moderately grey vertical test pattern) mean that I'm not achieving an accurate 1:1 pixel mapping ratio?

If so - what parameters should I play with on the VP30 in order to get a full "lock" also in the horisontal plane?

Horizontal test pattern (alternate white and black lines) always looks bright, especially compared to vertical one.

So it sounds like you have it right.

The key thing is not to have any moires, but solid black and white pixel columns/rows.

StooMonster

OK, thanks. The lines are defined in both patterns and there's no moire effect, I just thought it was weird that the horisontal was brighter and also pulsating. I can't say I remember this to be the case on the SD plasma I used to own.

OK, thanks. The lines are defined in both patterns and there's no moire effect, I just thought it was weird that the horisontal was brighter and also pulsating. I can't say I remember this to be the case on the SD plasma I used to own.
I don't get any pulsing on my plasma. The horizontal pattern looks slightly darker grey for me than the vertical (suspect this is down to rectangular pixels)

Do you get any banding? I guess that's what you're referring to with moire, so suppose not.

I have my HD-A1 currently setup as follows---HD-A1>Denon 3806>VP30>display----works fine.
I haven't tried that for a couple of reasons. I have 3 HDMI sources and my Yamaha receiver only has 2 HDMI inputs. The other is that it eliminates the option of input specific settings for the HDMI sources on the VP30 since everything would be fed through the single HDMI output of the receiver. It may be an acceptable workaround for some, but not the way that I want to use the VP30. One of the reasons I selected it was the 4 HDMI inputs.

Set the A1 to output a "bitstream". It works fine for me
I assume this is refering to the HDMI discussion. Can you elaborate on this some more? The A1 manual indicates that if you set HDMI to Bitstream, DD+ soundtracks with Advanced Content will be output as 2 channel PCM. So I never tried this setting. What are you getting at your receiver if you use Bitstream?

John Did you try setting the A1 audio to bitstream. That is what DVDO recommends. I am not sure which FW version first allowed this but its fine on V1.10. I get DTS on all HD-DVDs this way

I haven't tried that for a couple of reasons. I have 3 HDMI sources and my Yamaha receiver only has 2 HDMI inputs. The other is that it eliminates the option of input specific settings for the HDMI sources on the VP30 since everything would be fed through the single HDMI output of the receiver. It may be an acceptable workaround for some, but not the way that I want to use the VP30. One of the reasons I selected it was the 4 HDMI inputs.
I only have the HD-A1 hooked up that way to get the PCM audio from the player, all my other sources are direct to the VP30 for video and direct to the receiver for audio. This allows specific settings for the HD-A1. Now if I get another component that does more than DD audio, like the HD-A1, then I'll have a problem, but I don't see that happening with any TV sources, and any future optical disc player I get will be a universal as I'm completely happy with my Denon 5900 for SD and the HD-A1 for HD-DVD. I won't buy BD until it's in a universal, or, if HD-DVD dies and BD becomes the defacto standard.

It's too bad DVDO didn't add another HDMI output to the VP50 to feed audio directly to the receiver and video directly to the display.

It's too bad DVDO didn't add another HDMI output to the VP50 to feed audio directly to the receiver and video directly to the display.

I don't know the science of this, but I would imagine, given HDMI's already fragile nature, that splitting the audio only out of the full HDMI signal would be very troublesome and dependant on HDCP compliance issues. Why not just run the audio out of the VP30/50 via coax or optical to a receiver? Then it syncs with the video as well. I doubt that HDMI audio is noticably superior to coax/optical - I had my system set that way (all inputs to VP30, then out 1 HDMI cable to Denon 4806, then 1 HDMI out to display) for reasons similar to yours. It was pointed out to me that this induced an additional and unnecessary HDMI jump, which is always subject to handshake issues. Now, I simply run it all to the VP30, 1 HDMI out to the display and a coax out of the VP30 to the Denon for audio. It's in sync, it passes great DTS 7.1 (or the best available) and only has the 1 HDMI jump instead of two.

I don't get any pulsing on my plasma. The horizontal pattern looks slightly darker grey for me than the vertical (suspect this is down to rectangular pixels)

Do you get any banding? I guess that's what you're referring to with moire, so suppose not.

-I should say it's more of a flickering than pulsing. Like high frequency flickering of a light bulb that's about to go out. I tried to play with the various horisontal settings under Format --> 720P 50Hz, but it went out of sync without improving, no matter which way I tried to manipulate them.

So I guess I'll just leave it as it is. The picture quality is good, and the checkerboard pattern doesn't flicker or show moire, so I guess it's OK, and at 1:1.

I don't know the science of this, but I would imagine, given HDMI's already fragile nature, that splitting the audio only out of the full HDMI signal would be very troublesome and dependant on HDCP compliance issues. Why not just run the audio out of the VP30/50 via coax or optical to a receiver? Then it syncs with the video as well. I doubt that HDMI audio is noticably superior to coax/optical - I had my system set that way (all inputs to VP30, then out 1 HDMI cable to Denon 4806, then 1 HDMI out to display) for reasons similar to yours. It was pointed out to me that this induced an additional and unnecessary HDMI jump, which is always subject to handshake issues. Now, I simply run it all to the VP30, 1 HDMI out to the display and a coax out of the VP30 to the Denon for audio. It's in sync, it passes great DTS 7.1 (or the best available) and only has the 1 HDMI jump instead of two.
The HD-A1 outputs advanced audio such as DD TrueHD as PCM over the HDMI ouput. Standard Toslink/SPDIF doesn't handle those. And frankly, I've stayed away from using the VP30 with audio due to all the issues that have been reported here, I've always run the Toslink/SPDIF audio directly from the source to the receiver and I can apply any delay needed there.

I have just placed a new version of the DVDO utility program on my WEB site (www.the-gordons.net). Go to the bottom of the home page and follow the obvious links. If asked for a userid and password use guest for both.

This is a complete rewrite of the program with a new GUI. I strongly suggest you read the manual (word doc) before attempting to use the program.

The program will now show you all of the basic settings for the VP30, allowing you to switch inputs retrieving the associated settings. Each setting may then be changed. This is all done through a simple point and click interface that requires a minimum amount of typing. Naturally if you are going to enter a value within a range you do have to type it.

There is an interface to the DVDO web site for downloading release notes and firmware files. This capability requires that your system have on it MS Internet Explorer version 5.0 or later.

The IR generator is there but it seems to have an error when attempting to send the IR code to the device via the RS232 interface. It is a problem in what is documented and will be cleaned up as soon as possible. It is a superfluous feature in this release as all settings can be altered from the main page. The IR pattern generator has no issues.

The Save/Restore system is not working properly. It saves the settings it is directed to but has an issue restoring them. It is under study as to why. In any event it can not save all of the settings as many are saved by input resolution (as sensed on the active input interface of the VP30) and can not be retrieved. DVDO has indicated that they will attempt to supply a method of saving (binary dump) all of the settings, I understand it to be over 1000 values. When they do that I will rewrite the save restore to do the job properly.

The program has been made more robust with regard to failures while loading firmware. I have yet to run into a situation where I could not load the firmware. This is after pulling the plug, breaking the connection, and using my electrically noisy electric shaver to introduce (via coupling) noise into the communications path. The load fails but it is easily restarted and if left alone has always successfully completed (for me).

Please provide feedback and I will fix all reported problems, generally within a day.
Have fun.

thanks Barry :)

-Gary

John Did you try setting the A1 audio to bitstream. That is what DVDO recommends. I am not sure which FW version first allowed this but its fine on V1.10. I get DTS on all HD-DVDs this way
Maybe the info in the A1 manual has been made obsolete by firmware upgrades and now it will pass DTS over HDMI when Bitstream is selected. I will give it a try. The downside of this is that DD+ and TrueHD soundtracks will be decoded to PCM, mixed, then re-encoded to DTS in the A1. They will then be decoded again in the receiver. All the extra processing could potentially degrade the sound. I have never done a comparison, so can't really say if I could hear a difference. But in theory it would be better to avoid the extra encode/decode step between the disc and the speakers.

I only have the HD-A1 hooked up that way to get the PCM audio from the player, all my other sources are direct to the VP30 for video and direct to the receiver for audio. This allows specific settings for the HD-A1....
Thanks for the details. If they don't fix the audio issues soon maybe I will give that a try. I just keep hoping the audio issues will be fixed in the next firmware version and I won't have to make my connections and switching more complicated to bypass them.

cyborgx,

I'm not protecting anything, I did do a search and came up empty & Since I saw no official word of this from Josh myself, I acted the way I did. I apologise for that.

No apology really necessary from yourself, guess your search just missed the posts (easily done with such a big thread!). Jeff's comment and lack of apology is another story.

The DVDO website comment on the comparison table saying "will be available" really does no more than re-iterate what they have already said by posting the Widescreen article containing this information which has been on their website for months. Some may construe this as a more definite comitment by DVDO, but it's still the same vapourware with no details on implementation or release date that they promised to Widescreen months ago.

Josh did say he would to give a response on any envisaged problems "next week" about a month ago, but he never did.

I always think of vaporware as something that does not exist, except maybe on paper or in someone's mind. Pass Through has been in private Beta testing for several weeks and the feedback has been very good. We need to make some changes before we will release this in public Beta which should be in 2-3 weeks.

I always think of vaporware as something that does not exist, except maybe on paper or in someone's mind. Pass Through has been in private Beta testing for several weeks and the feedback has been very good. We need to make some changes before we will release this in public Beta which should be in 2-3 weeks.

Anything to wait for on the random audio dropout area?

I can only comment & say that the passthrough feature is one of the most amazing updates I've seen on this unit. For a very long time I believed it was not possible to do this type of thing on the VP30. It is a pleasent surprise to find out that it not only works, but on HD gives me a serious advantange + lets me link devices that sometime get screwed up through processing (e.g., media streamers like the MB200).

I can also finally daisy chain processors and the HDMI inputs act like true switches.

Fantastic work, Josh!

Please provide feedback and I will fix all reported problems, generally within a day.
Have fun.

When can we expect a vp50 version ! :)

really great work...

Daniel.

Now that the new firmware enabling TrueHD has been released, what is the best way to connect the A1 to the VP30? I would really like to avoid using analog input.

My Pioneer receiver has two HDMI inputs.

Now that the new firmware enabling TrueHD has been released, what is the best way to connect the A1 to the VP30? I would really like to avoid using analog input.

My Pioneer receiver has two HDMI inputs.

I don't think it's released yet - Josh says it in private beta at the moment and will be out in 2 to 3 weeks.

I can only comment & say that the passthrough feature is one of the most amazing updates I've seen on this unit. For a very long time I believed it was not possible to do this type of thing on the VP30. It is a pleasent surprise to find out that it not only works, but on HD gives me a serious advantange + lets me link devices that sometime get screwed up through processing (e.g., media streamers like the MB200).

I can also finally daisy chain processors and the HDMI inputs act like true switches.

Fantastic work, Josh!

It aready acts like true switches. That is how I'm using it to switch between devices. It has worked flawlessly for me switching between 4 HDMi devices.

It is a VP50 version. As the DVDO line is expanded only the tables in the ini file need to change. The program does determine the model (if the firmware allows it to, or else it asks), and I eventually will make it such that ini entries are conditional on model and/or FW version loaded.

Now that the new firmware enabling TrueHD has been released, what is the best way to connect the A1 to the VP30? I would really like to avoid using analog input.

My Pioneer receiver has two HDMI inputs.

The A-1 should be connected by HDMI to your receiver for the audio part, and then the receiver to the VP30 for the video.

I don't think it's released yet - Josh says it in private beta at the moment and will be out in 2 to 3 weeks.

He's talking about the new firmware that was just issued for the HD-A1 that enables TrueHD 5.1 audio, not the VP30's pending firmware to enable 1080p passthrough.

He's talking about the new firmware that was just issued for the HD-A1 that enables TrueHD 5.1 audio, not the VP30's pending firmware to enable 1080p passthrough.

Doh - apologies

The A-1 should be connected by HDMI to your receiver for the audio part, and then the receiver to the VP30 for the video.



He's talking about the new firmware that was just issued for the HD-A1 that enables TrueHD 5.1 audio, not the VP30's pending firmware to enable 1080p passthrough.

OK, thanks - I'll give it a try when my unit arrives.

Hello.
I have a grey-curtain problem.
I am using Italian Skybox HD with a HDMI-to-HDMI VP30.
My display is an Infocus SP7200 with an HDMI/DVI adapter and a 30feet DVI/DVI cable.
Whenever I switch to a HDCP protected channel, grey curtain appears and I get no image.
I have tried to leave my VP30 always on, but with no result.
Can somebody chime in and see how to remedy to this problem?
Thank you all.

ninja.rogue - Do you have any shorter DVI-to-HDMI cables that you could use to try and verify if it is cable length or the adapter causing the issue?

I'm wondering whether you (or anyone else with a OPPO 970) could check whether your OPPO 970 triggers the AUTO priority setting even when it is OFF. I'll assume you are using the 970 with the HDMI output (480i) and have some type of digital audio connected from the 970 to the VP30.

Put the OPPO 970 as priority number 1 and have another device as priority number 2. Turn on the 970 and then select AUTO on the input. It should switch to the OPPO 970 since it is the first priority. Also turn on your number 2 device. Now turn off the 970 as let me know if the VP30 switches to the second device. Mine does not. It always stays locked on the OPPO 970 even when it is OFF. However, the VP30 INFO shows the OPPO 970 as "No signal". Thanks! SJ
I can confirm this problem with FW 1.07. When using AUTO, the HDMI input (Oppo 970) always takes precedence over any other signal, even when the player is switched off and the info screen says "No signal". (i only have tested with analog inputs, as i only have 1 HDMI source).

ninja.rogue - Do you have any shorter DVI-to-HDMI cables that you could use to try and verify if it is cable length or the adapter causing the issue?

Hi Josh,
thank you for your reply
I don't think that it is a cable length issue as a direct connection is working.
I am convinced that this is a HDCP handshake issue because I have tried to connect my dvd player also with HDMI (instead of SDI as I have been doing with my HD+) and I have the same issue.
So whatever HDCP protected source I am connecting to my VP30 I can't get the image to vpr.
this shortens the list of causes, as it is either the VP30 or the VPR.
But the vpr IS working with hdcp protected sources, as I have experimented this morning.
So what could I do?
Some more info for debug use:
30feet cable Lindy
DVI/HDMI gebl adapter
firmware sp7200 3.9
firmware vp30 1.07

I really thank you in advance.
I also have contacted my Italian distributor who said that would contact Baptiste.
I hope that it can be solved otherwise it is a dealbreaker fault.
Ciao
Paolo

ninjarogue - Are both the input and output HDCP Mode settings set to "On"?

The reason that I asked if you have a shorter HDMI-to-DVI cable is that I think that the adapter and long cable length may be contributing to the issues with HDCP, if your HDCP Mode settings are set to "On". I am only asking if you can try this for troubleshooting sake and not as a final solution.

Josh,
both input and output HDCP Mode are set to ON.
I can't use a shorter HDMI-to-DVI cable as the vpr is on the ceiling and all the cables are within the ceiling itself so I can't reach the vpr without dismounting the whole ceiling.
It is a mess of a setup but once it works you never see any cable.
Shall I change input or output to OFF?

Paolo, Lets see where you are:

1) The same cable works, passes HDCP content, if you take it out of the VP30 output and connect it directly to the sky box.

2) If you connect a different HDMI source to the VP 30 with the 30 foot cable now going from the VP30 to the VPR that fails on HDCP content.

3) You have tried the different HDMI inputs on the VP30 and each one behaves in the same manner, fails to allow HDCP content.

4)Direct connections always work between HDCP sources and the VPR

If My summary is correct you most likely have a VP30 problem. Either a physical problem (e.g. bad pin on the output HDMI connector; or a VP30 setting problem, or the VP30 does not understand the EDID data from the VPR If non HDCP content works through the VP30, then I would suspect that there is no physical problem, as the signals are getting trough to tell it that non hdcp content is accepted.

My thoughts ofr what they are worth are:

Some setting on the VP30 that is necessary for HD material but not SD material is incorrect, or the VP30 is not getting valid EDID data from the vpr or the VP30 does not understand the EDID data from the vpr.

The fact that the curtain is grey also leads me to believe that the Skybox and not the vp30 has shut down the signal.

What resolution is your vpr running at and what output resolution is the VP30 at? Are you locking your output frame rates to the input or running unlocked?

Just trying to help

Thank you Barry,
I am getting grey curtain also with dvd player.
I am using 720p 50hz with vpr (getting a "720p" input reading for vpr, which is consistent) and a 720p50 as an output resolution with vp30.
I am running locked because both hdmi/hdcp sources are 50hz signals.
Thank you again for your help, I am also convinced that the problem is in the vp30 as my previous HD+ had always worked with the same sources and cable with adapter...

The only other thing I would try is a reset to factory defaults, but write down your settings first. What firmware version are you running?. I placed a new version of my utility on my website (www.the-gordons.net) that might help you review your settings. Go to the bottom of the home page and I am sure you will find the links.

Barry,

I finally downloaded the utility program. I do not have a computer by my theater, but it is very nice when interacting with the VP30 for loading firmware. It will be nice when you get all the details worked out with DVDO on saving the settings.

I tried your loader early on and I like the progress you have made.

Thanks,
Doug

Doug, the version on the web site 1.0.26 does as good a job on the settings that can be done at this time. The issue is the fact that you can not force a resolution into the device to be able to pull the settings for that rsolution. DVDO is quite busy with (1) fixing the audio dropout problem and I have heard through my contacts that they are close to a final resolution. I believe they know what the problem is and are working out the best way to fix it. (2) getting the VP50 squared away.

I will fix any bugs that are reported in the utility, but that is all for now. By the way I am curious. You appear to be a Mac afficianado, are you using the program with a Mac and if so, is the loader working correctly?

I wish the VP 30 had a zoom feature simular to the Bravo D2, where you could fill the screen with one click on the remote. Sometimes I like to fill the screen amd getting the geometry right with the current zoom is a hassle.

Aspect ratio. This is what I use to fill the screen with letterbox shows on SD channels. I push the button a couple of times and it fills the screen.

Aspect ratio. This is what I use to fill the screen with letterbox shows on SD channels. I push the button a couple of times and it fills the screen.

Me too.

Thank you Barry,
I am getting grey curtain also with dvd player.
I am using 720p 50hz with vpr (getting a "720p" input reading for vpr, which is consistent) and a 720p50 as an output resolution with vp30.
I am running locked because both hdmi/hdcp sources are 50hz signals.
Thank you again for your help, I am also convinced that the problem is in the vp30 as my previous HD+ had always worked with the same sources and cable with adapter...
Could just be faulty of course - can your dealer loan you a 2nd box to try?

By the way I am curious. You appear to be a Mac afficianado, are you using the program with a Mac and if so, is the loader working correctly?

No, I wish I could. I am using my work laptop. I have been looking for a Mac alternative for doing loading. Someone on the forum mentioned they had accomplished it, but I have not seen how yet. I tried to use smo command line function on the mac, but I am not sure if it is the USB or the utility.

Later,
Doug

When the VP30's output level is set to PC, as I do to match my NEC HT1000's DVI input, what RGB values are used for the black and the white areas of the VP30's "Brightness/Contrast" test pattern? I had assumed that it would use (0,0,0) for black and (255,255,255) for white, but that can't be the case as I can still (barely) see the BTB and WTW stripes in the pattern.

-- Peter

P.S. Having junked the last PC in the house a few weeks ago, I am also interested in being able to upgrade my firmware from a Mac (I just got my VP30 a few weeks ago, with version 1.07, and haven't tried an upgrade yet). I do have Virtual PC 6 (an older version) with Windows XP on an iBook, which I use to run ColorFacts (slowly), but I don't have a USB->RS232 adaptor yet, so I'll have to pick up one of those first. Some successful experiences were posted earlier in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6101007&&#post6101007
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7316133&&#post7316133

Me too.

Oink, let me ask you a question:

In your profile, I see two displays listed:
samsung hip5685, sony 34xbr800

Which of these are you using your VP on?

Maybe the info in the A1 manual has been made obsolete by firmware upgrades and now it will pass DTS over HDMI when Bitstream is selected. I will give it a try.
I tried this and dlm10541 is correct. If I set the HDMI to Bitstream on the A1, the receiver reports standard DTS is passing through the VP30 over the HDMI path. But before I could listen much to see how it sounded, I lost the audio and had to reboot the VP30. This seems to be a problem I only have over HDMI, the audio goes out completely and won't return until I reboot. I have a Sony DVD player which is connected to the VP30 by both HDMI and SPDIF Coax. When the audio goes out over HDMI, I can switch the VP30 Audio Input to the coax and the audio is still there. When switch back to HDMI it is still silent. So it seems the VP30 is dropping the audio on the HDMI path for some reason. I suspect the same would happen if I used SPDIF from the A1, but haven't tried it yet. Any, thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I tried this and dlm10541 is correct. If I set the HDMI to Bitstream on the A1, the receiver reports standard DTS is passing through the VP30 over the HDMI path.
I connected the A1 directly to my receiver by HDMI and forgot to switch the HDMI output setting from Bitstream back to PCM. I was surprised to see that now my receiver was reporting 2 channel PCM, just like the manual says it should. So getting DTS over HDMI with the Bitstream setting seems to require having the VP30 between the A1 and the receiver. I found something similar with some of the early testing I did, having the VP30 in between seems to affect what the A1 outputs. This HDMI stuff is definitely strange.

Hi To all...

I'm passing out! I read all 182 pages on this thread this Weekend, and I've just registered now...

I'm considering buying the VP30 or VP50, BUT! I cannot believe the number of problems all are having with the VP30. This is a $2,000 piece of equipment, while I admire the fact that DVDO monitors these forums, and takes the issues seriously, I still think it's unacceptable to release a product with countless bugs... What happened to testing and making sure the product is stable and reliable before releasing it... This thing costs more than most T.V.'s used to.

Now don't get me wrong... I'm not looking to start a flame war, I admire all of you... I'm just saying I can't believe how patient you all are!

I'm very much a Newbie... So please bear with me... I've just bought a Pio 5070, and was looking at plasmas for 2 years... I just thought the the Pioneers were Stunning.

I have the SA4300HD, Thinking of getting the 8300, (someone told me it has a better Video card, True?), and a Pano DMR-EH75V Since it scales, and I can convert my VHS to DVD, and an 80gb hard drive... can record off the cable, and cross record VHS/DVD/HDD. I thought it was a good place to stay untill the BluRay Vs. HD DVD war was over...

I am dissapointed the the Regular SD Channels, And with the DVD output from this player Hense me considering A Oppo 970 with SDI, and the VP30 with the ABT102, and SDI card, or VP50 with SDI.

My questions are... Have all you VP owners really looked at the Lumagen & Crystalio 2 Scalers... The Lumgen I was looking at for $2,500 has 2 SDI inputs, and does not seam to have the problems... What makes the VP's worth all the trouble?

2) what is a good SDI card for the 970, and I read on these forms that the 970 & VP30 combo has problems... Has this been resolved? I have not been able to find a clear answer...

Thanks SO much in advance.

Best to all... Royd

Hi Royd,

The VP30 mainly only has one functional bug, audio dropouts and not everyone suffers from this. Most of the other issues are superficial or not necessarily the fault of the VP30.

The lumagens have been around longer and are more matured, plus don't have to deal with any audio issues so are fairly stable now. (If you don't use the audio part of the VP30 it's a lot more stable too ;) ).

The CII is a lot more money but is new so still has bugs of its own (check out the pixelmagicforum.com site for details).

I'm not certain that folks have SDI'd the Oppo 970 yet, I thought it was the 971 that got all the SDI mods, the 970 has HDMI with 480i output which can give similar improvements as SDI but yes I've read some posts about issues (however aren't DVDO offering it as a package on there website so I presume problems would be minor :confused: ).

Of course it's early morning here so I may just be confused. :D

Hi Royd,

Also dont forget about the programmable remote bug. If you, like me, own a Phillips Pronto or Marantz RC programmable then you can forget any of the additonal codes working. Only codes you can learn off the original remote will work. All the new funtions like panarama etc have to be done using menu macros which are ugly to say the least. The VP30/50 are nice scalers but lets not hide the fact that the firmware is anywhere but stable at the moment. I personally wish DVDO would give this area even more attention than they currently are as I agree with you that a $2k device should not be released this buggy.

H

H

I suggest going to Barry Gordons website. I think you may find what you need on IR codes. He is working with DVDO on this subject.

Also I think you would find that correcting the audio problems are top priority for DVDO

H

I suggest going to Barry Gordons website. I think you may find what you need on IR codes. He is working with DVDO on this subject.

Also I think you would find that correcting the audio problems are top priority for DVDO

In previous posts Barry explained that the VP30 and older HD units used a nifty system that somehow matched the commands used for the RS232 automation and those used by programmable IR devices. Hence as new functions were added to the RS232 functionality those would also automatically become available via IR if you used the correct command sequence. Barry's program basically created a simple way of generating these without relying on DVDO to publish the IR commands on their website. On problem is that this method only seems to work on some of the universal programmable remotes out there. The Phillips and Marantzs accept the codes but when you try and use them you get nothing. Some have said that they sometimes work right after a cold reboot and then only for a few hours and then ..... nothing again. As far as I am aware this is still a known firmware bug and has yet to be fixed.

As for the audio problems I am aware that they are working on it but I still stand by my statement. I think its just wrong that the VP30 was lauched with the number of bugs it had in firmware 1.0. Even after 10 public bug fixes my unit still drops audio randomly, cannot use my Marantz RC5000 remote and still just stops working with some sources for no reason. How anyone could even start to think that describes a stable product is beyond me.

If I was a newbie thinking of buying a DVDO product I would also be very worried before parting with my cash. In fact I have gone so far as to stop two of my mates buying VP30's until they can get these problems sorted. Any way you look at it $2k is still a lot of dosh for most of us and my nagging wife seems to be winning the argument on this one.

Just ordered a VP30 to go with my Panny 9UK, Oppo 971H and Explorer 3250 STB. My goal is to improve SD from the Explorer and gain some control over saturation and hue not available thru HDMI stright into 9UK. Pretty happy with 971H ouput straight into 9UK and have two HDMI inputs to work with so was thinking about leaving 971H connected to one HDMI and have the VP30 handle signals from STB into the other HDMI input. Is this the smart way to go, or should I run the 971H thru the VP30 as well? I guess my real question is: What's the smart way to configure this suite of equipment to get the most out of it? I am really an audiophile and am learning the video hobby, so any help is greatly appreciated! Love the forum...
If you getting hte VP30 why get the oppo 971? I think you want the oppo 970 instead.

Re the IR codes.

Yes there is an issue with the VP30 and IR codes and I do believe DVDO is aware of it. All of the codes on the remote appear to work all of the time. The protocol for those codes (lets call them the Remote IR codes) is a defacto industry standard established by NEC. They did that by supplying the chips to encode and decode that protocol making it easy and cheap for a manufacturer to include their chip hence their IR protocol (receive side) into their device.

The second protocol used by DVDO in the VP30 is completely different. It is unique (as far as I know) to the DVDO product line. The concept was to allow universal remotes to utilize many of the RS232 commands (those that made sense in a one way conversation). It was a quick and I guess easy solution. I do believe that there is known problem wherein the capability degrades over time, probably due to some memory over write.

Most universal Non-learning remotes have algorithms to develop the patterns they can send. The algorithm requires the entry of a code number and is well discussed at other places on the web. If the protocol, like the one used by DVDO for its "Discrete" IR codes is not known to them their algorithmic process will not handle it.

If it a true learning remote it should be able to learn any IR pattern, but catch 22, if that pattern does not yet exist in a remote....

I chose to have my program generate the IR timing information (the pattern) in a format established by Philips for its line of Pronto remotes. It is the most widely used notation for recording IR data patterns in an exploded form (timing information) that I know of, hence my decision. My program operates from a succinct english like description of the protocol and the values used to represent each code and develops the pattern in the Philips Pronto "Hex" format.

Any remote that accepts this format as a paste in to some supporting program (e.g. ProntoEdit for the Philips line), should be able to deal with these codes. Some "Sophisticated" systems try to change the pattern information to an algorithmic representation (Philips does that on some of its newer remotes) and may fail. I have tried a good sampling of these patterns as generated by the program using an old (original) philips pronto with complete success. However I do not control my VP30 on a regular basis via IR, I control it via RS232. Therefor I can not comment on the long term stability of the process.

Hope the above pontification helps someone.

I'll try it out with ProntoEditNG Barry. Do you have a good command to use as an example? (I'm on firmware 1.10 and I've got your latest utility)

I'll try it out with ProntoEditNG Barry. Do you have a good command to use as an example? (I'm on firmware 1.10 and I've got your latest utility)

Letterbox input aspect ratio is a common one that most have found to stop working after a while. I think what would be usefull to know is if it stops after a lot of IR commands or just after an few hours of being in use (with no IR).

I rarely notice this myself as my cabs are powered down at the mains every night and only used for about 3 hours a day. These 'bonus' commands don't get much use but typically I'd say out of the 1-2 times a week they work 70% of the time. Weekends, with longer powerup/viewing times is when I've noticed it.

anything found on the remote itself works fine. If enough of us ask, they may add additional codes that are extensions on the standard IR (Philips) protocol and that should remain stabile too.

RoydRage,

While it might seem that there are a lot of bugs in these units, keep in mind that we focus specifically on bugs & issues here. If you were to tap into a phsychology forum, there's a high likelyhood that you would conclude that everyone in the world was in the midst of a psychological breakdown/depression/psychotic episode...

The forum is by no mean a statistical representation of DVDO's (or any other company's) customer base. By definition, we focus on the bad and try to push companies to improve themselves.

DVDO, as well as companies like Algolith, Lumagen, Key Digital and others have been actively participating and improving their products as a direct result.

The VP30 is completely usable. There are some issues, but definitely no showstoppers.

RoydRage,

While it might seem that there are a lot of bugs in these units, keep in mind that we focus specifically on bugs & issues here. If you were to tap into a phsychology forum, there's a high likelyhood that you would conclude that everyone in the world was in the midst of a psychological breakdown/depression/psychotic episode...

The forum is by no mean a statistical representation of DVDO's (or any other company's) customer base. By definition, we focus on the bad and try to push companies to improve themselves.

DVDO, as well as companies like Algolith, Lumagen, Key Digital and others have been actively participating and improving their products as a direct result.

The VP30 is completely usable. There are some issues, but definitely no showstoppers.

oferlaor,

I fully understand that usually you only hear from the people who have problems, and the ones that are happy don't say anything... But there are people here who have issues that have been going on for Months! AND Quite a number of them, so that makes me feel that If I drop large coin to get this... I'm rolling the dice and hoping that I won't be one of the ones that are having trouble... That's not a good feeling knowing up front that you might have problems with it.

Thanks, Royd

Hi To all...

I'm passing out! I read all 182 pages on this thread this Weekend, and I've just registered now...

I'm considering buying the VP30 or VP50, BUT! I cannot believe the number of problems all are having with the VP30. This is a $2,000 piece of equipment, while I admire the fact that DVDO monitors these forums, and takes the issues seriously, I still think it's unacceptable to release a product with countless bugs... What happened to testing and making sure the product is stable and reliable before releasing it... This thing costs more than most T.V.'s used to.

Now don't get me wrong... I'm not looking to start a flame war, I admire all of you... I'm just saying I can't believe how patient you all are!

I'm very much a Newbie... So please bear with me... I've just bought a Pio 5070, and was looking at plasmas for 2 years... I just thought the the Pioneers were Stunning.

I have the SA4300HD, Thinking of getting the 8300, (someone told me it has a better Video card, True?), and a Pano DMR-EH75V Since it scales, and I can convert my VHS to DVD, and an 80gb hard drive... can record off the cable, and cross record VHS/DVD/HDD. I thought it was a good place to stay untill the BluRay Vs. HD DVD war was over...

I am dissapointed the the Regular SD Channels, And with the DVD output from this player Hense me considering A Oppo 970 with SDI, and the VP30 with the ABT102, and SDI card, or VP50 with SDI.

My questions are... Have all you VP owners really looked at the Lumagen & Crystalio 2 Scalers... The Lumgen I was looking at for $2,500 has 2 SDI inputs, and does not seam to have the problems... What makes the VP's worth all the trouble?

2) what is a good SDI card for the 970, and I read on these forms that the 970 & VP30 combo has problems... Has this been resolved? I have not been able to find a clear answer...

Thanks SO much in advance.

Best to all... Royd

Ok... So to reiterate, the 2 most important questions... How does this unit compare to the more refined Lumagen? Is it worth risking the issues and getting this? Is the performance that much superior... I love the upgrade program, yes. But what can I expect as far as PQ?

I'm horrified at seeing the regular SD channels on cable... Like SPEED Channel which is a favorite I watch all the time, and it looks terrible... How will the VP30 effect none HD Channels on Cable?

I don't think I'll have a problem with the dropouts, cause I'm running HDMI for Video only...

Thanks! Royd

choddo2006

Any pattern that my IR generator makes should work. If the option "Discrete" is checked it will generate the command in the "Discrete" as opposed to the "Remote" format. The Discrete protocol can not handle numeric values such as needed for brightness or contrast. I believe DVDO is looking into doing this in the future and also handling relative numerics such as plus and minus 1. I believe it is low on their priority list as well it should be.