Ok... So to reiterate, the 2 most important questions... How does this unit compare to the more refined Lumagen? Is it worth risking the issues and getting this? Is the performance that much superior... I love the upgrade program, yes. But what can I expect as far as PQ?

I'm horrified at seeing the regular SD channels on cable... Like SPEED Channel which is a favorite I watch all the time, and it looks terrible... How will the VP30 effect none HD Channels on Cable?

I don't think I'll have a problem with the dropouts, cause I'm running HDMI for Video only...

Thanks! Royd

Basically if...

your display can accept its' native resolution with a 1:1 pixel mapping,
your source can output SD over HDMI (480i),
you bypass the VP30 for audio and
you don't rely on the 'bonus' IR commands not included on the remote.


...then the VP30/ABT102D combo should give you pretty much the best video performance you can get without any issues. (1 & 2 are general scaler points for getting best performance and are limitations of the display and source, not the scaler).

The only area which is lacking from the VP30 for improving bad SD is noise filtering/cleaning but is also lacking from just about everything at this price point. There are specific boxes you can add to just do this function if you require it.

Anything which hasn't been out for a couple of years will be buggy in some regard, it's an unfortunate issue of complex technology probably made 'acceptable' by the computer industry. ;)

Basically if...

your display can accept its' native resolution with a 1:1 pixel mapping,
your source can output SD over HDMI (480i),
you bypass the VP30 for audio and
you don't rely on the 'bonus' IR commands not included on the remote.


...then the VP30/ABT102D combo should give you pretty much the best video performance you can get without any issues. (1 & 2 are general scaler points for getting best performance and are limitations of the display and source, not the scaler).

The only area which is lacking from the VP30 for improving bad SD is noise filtering/cleaning but is also lacking from just about everything at this price point. There are specific boxes you can add to just do this function if you require it.

Anything which hasn't been out for a couple of years will be buggy in some regard, it's an unfortunate issue of complex technology probably made 'acceptable' by the computer industry. ;)

Ailean,

Thanks... This is VERY helpful... My Display is the Pioneer PDP-5070 1365X768 768p but says accepts 1080p signal.

The Cablebox is the Sientific Atlanta SA4300HD... I don't know if it can output 480i. I was thinking of changing to the 8300 as I was told it had a better card, but several people have told me that it has it's own issue with dropouts... Would the VP-50 do more for the SD signals? The price is closer when you consider you're buying the ABT102 card with the 30. I might get the Harmony 890 Remote, but I'm not too concerned about the remote issue.

Now we're getting somewhere!

Thanks, Royd

choddo2006I believe it is low on their priority list as well it should be.

I 100% agree. DVDO have big bugs to squash first before starting to look at new features and like I said earlier you can do most functions with ugly pronto macros so this one isnt a showstopper. On a different note...

How many users out there are actively using the panorama mode? Its funny but on some shows for me it works awesome and on others the non linear stretch can really make the image look weird. Was watching baseball on Tuesday and the camera angles were playing havoc with the crowd shots and any straight lines on the field. Oh I wish we could get it in 16x9 HD here in the UK but all we get from channel 5 is crummy 4x3 SD :(

Do any of the beta testers know if DVDO are planning on tweaking panorama in the future to offer different types of stretch. I personally like the Sony TV smart mode since it seems to zooms in a little (like a 14x9 mode) and then does a little non-linear stretch to the small black bars would have been left. The effect is not so dramatic as the VP30 panorama mode so its less noticable but it seems to work very well.

I 100% agree. DVDO have big bugs to squash first before starting to look at new features and like I said earlier you can do most functions with ugly pronto macros so this one isnt a showstopper. On a different note...

How many users out there are actively using the panorama mode? Its funny but on some shows for me it works awesome and on others the non linear stretch can really make the image look weird. Was watching baseball on Tuesday and the camera angles were playing havoc with the crowd shots and any straight lines on the field. Oh I wish we could get it in 16x9 HD here in the UK but all we get from channel 5 is crummy 4x3 SD :(

Do any of the beta testers know if DVDO are planning on tweaking panorama in the future to offer different types of stretch. I personally like the Sony TV smart mode since it seems to zooms in a little (like a 14x9 mode) and then does a little non-linear stretch to the small black bars would have been left. The effect is not so dramatic as the VP30 panorama mode so its less noticable but it seems to work very well.

I also prefer the NLS of the NEC XR5, which sounds like it is similar to the Sony one.... there is less distortion on the image and a little zoom.......

Yes, there are plans to improve Panorama at one point. I'm hoping that they can make it configurable (like Lumagen's option) - essentially we can decide how much cropping/movement/deformation there will be.

But all panorama implementations distort the picture. I used to use panorama 5 years ago in my old Toshiba HD RP TV, but started to hate it 4 years ago and can't stand watching anything with it now. It's definitely one feature I will never use on the VP30/VP50.

Yes, there are plans to improve Panorama at one point. I'm hoping that they can make it configurable (like Lumagen's option) - essentially we can decide how much cropping/movement/deformation there will be.


that would be great... since I'm moving to the VP50 ... I'm hoping it'll make its way there too.... :)

I always think of vaporware as something that does not exist, except maybe on paper or in someone's mind. Pass Through has been in private Beta testing for several weeks and the feedback has been very good. We need to make some changes before we will release this in public Beta which should be in 2-3 weeks.

This is the first indication that you have given that it has finally been put into a Beta (after saying you would respond weeks ago). All the information previously on future Beta's did not include this, so yes it was Vapourware up until now. Let's not get into a long discussion on this, I don't care what we call it personally, just like to know when and how.

If some people now have it in testing that's great. I hope we get some details on the exact implementation soon, and any impact it may have on outputting the audio to the other digital outputs. Have any Betas testers seen if there is any signal on the VP30 digital outputs?

If the passthrough only passes audio directly to the HDMI (quite likely) it still means getting the audio to amps can get very messy

Cyborg that is the whole point of Beta, to test stuff out without the info being released to the public that it is coming soon :) that public may think it is vapor but it is in fact not ;)

DVDO planned passthru all along and like Josh said it is in Beta, no one will speak about it though as that is the nature of the game so don't ask ;)

-Gary

I 100% agree. DVDO have big bugs to squash first before starting to look at new features and like I said earlier you can do most functions with ugly pronto macros so this one isnt a showstopper. On a different note...

How many users out there are actively using the panorama mode? Its funny but on some shows for me it works awesome and on others the non linear stretch can really make the image look weird. Was watching baseball on Tuesday and the camera angles were playing havoc with the crowd shots and any straight lines on the field. Oh I wish we could get it in 16x9 HD here in the UK but all we get from channel 5 is crummy 4x3 SD :(

Do any of the beta testers know if DVDO are planning on tweaking panorama in the future to offer different types of stretch. I personally like the Sony TV smart mode since it seems to zooms in a little (like a 14x9 mode) and then does a little non-linear stretch to the small black bars would have been left. The effect is not so dramatic as the VP30 panorama mode so its less noticable but it seems to work very well.
I'm so glad I'm a "wide mode" man - your world sounds so painful ;)

cyborgx,

NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement. People that the company trusts to try out beta software should not discuss it in the open, that's part of the arrangement. I trust you understand.

Companies usually do not commit themselves to features they do not know 100% will work. Imagine the kind of PR nightmare that DVDO would have on their hands if they promise passthrough and find out there's a technical problem preventing it from working.

Now that it's out in the open, I can say that I've been testing the passthrough feature for a while and it works great. Never tested audio (I completely separate audio from video on my system). I think it's a killer feature on the VP30 and I hope they release it soon to the general public.

Got my VP30/ABT102d set up fed by SA Explorer 3250HD STB. Feeding it 480i thru the Auto DVI setting results in some really lousy looking output (at all output settings). There are very distinct horizontal lines thur the picture especially text. Setting the STB for 480p improves things significantly, but thought the ABT102d was suppose to be champ at 480i deinterlacing. I'm new to video processors, and have gone thru the settings methodically to see if its user error. Any help would be appreciated! Firmware is 1.10.

Like Oferlaor I also seperate audio from video for processing in my system. However the unit that does the seperating is the VP30 if I am using a pure HDMI source (audio and video on the same cable) If I can seperate the audio from the video I do that prior to the VP30 (e.g. Component video sources). I did this not only for the cleaner processing (IMHO) I get by optimizing the equipment for each signal type, but because my A/V processor is old. It has super audio capabilities but poor video handling only S-Video and Composite (Lexicon MC-1). All my audio does pass through the VP30 to get the benifits of the advanced lip sync technology. The Lexicon no longer does any switching, just audio signal processing. Probably overkill put why buy a new unit when the one I have works so well.

Got my VP30/ABT102d set up fed by SA Explorer 3250HD STB. Feeding it 480i thru the Auto DVI setting results in some really lousy looking output (at all output settings). There are very distinct horizontal lines thur the picture especially text. Setting the STB for 480p improves things significantly, but thought the ABT102d was suppose to be champ at 480i deinterlacing. I'm new to video processors, and have gone thru the settings methodically to see if its user error. Any help would be appreciated! Firmware is 1.10.

Don't Tell me that! The Reason I just ordered a VP-50 was precisely to improve the picture of my SA 4200HD on SD Signals!

I hope someone here can help straighten you out, or I may have to cancel my order...

Sigh....

Royd

The iScan VP30 can output 1080p when the input signal is 1080i. The process by which this is done is not technically deinterlacing although some refer to it as 'bob deinterlacing'. This method by which this is done is called field scaling, each individual field is scaled to the desired output resolution.

I have a question regarding this. Have I understood this correctly: -the VP30 takes the incoming 1080i signal, scales the two 540 fields up to 1080 each, then 'reassembles' or 'weaves' them together into a 1080p signal?

If so (or thereabouts), is the resulting 1080p signal from the VP30 "full" of jaggies, since there is no motion, edge or source adaptive deinterlacing going on?

Don't Tell me that! The Reason I just ordered a VP-50 was precisely to improve the picture of my SA 4200HD on SD Signals!

I hope someone here can help straighten you out, or I may have to cancel my order...

Sigh....

Royd
if your primary goal is SD only, the VP20 or VP30 with the ABT102 card should be just fine .... the VP50 should do the same with SD .... but hopefully there could be improvements with software releases for future versions... more processing power... could mean better images...

I have a question regarding this. Have I understood this correctly: -the VP30 takes the incoming 1080i signal, scales the two 540 fields up to 1080 each, then 'reassembles' or 'weaves' them together into a 1080p signal?

If so (or thereabouts), is the resulting 1080p signal from the VP30 "full" of jaggies, since there is no motion, edge or source adaptive deinterlacing going on?

There's no weaving or deinterlacing at all. Each 1920x540 interlaced field is individually scaled to 1920x1080 (or whatever your desired resolution may be), with a vertical position offset between fields. All of the original 1920x1080 pixels are retained in their original interlaced pattern, with an additional 540 lines of interpolated pixels added to each field.

OK, thanks. But how does the result look, compared to a deinterlaced 1080p like the VP50 will do? Does the VP30 "version" have jaggies etc.? If not, what's the downside?

RoydRage,

I have the VP30 and it definitely processes SD better than the 8300HD set top box. The VP50 adds the ability of field reprogrammmability for algorithms, which the VP30 does not have, plus you will have the option of processing HD content. To be honest, my 1080i content from my provider (Comcast) is not very good, though 720p looks great.

The VP50 will also help with processing of HD DVD and BR, if you get that. If you don't have a native 1080p display device, (IIRC your display is 768p), this will also help in scaling this picture as well.

If you only want SD, you there may not be much improvement over a VP30/20, but I know Dale was working on improving algorithms and you won't be able to take advatage of that with the ABT102 in the 20/30 product.

You may want to rethink your HD needs, especially in the future. As always, if you don't like it when you get it, DVDO has a good return policy.

if your primary goal is SD only, the VP20 or VP30 with the ABT102 card should be just fine .... the VP50 should do the same with SD .... but hopefully there could be improvements with software releases for future versions... more processing power... could mean better images...

Big..

My primary goal is not SD... BUT, There are so many more SD channels than HD, it's a significant concern for me.

FYI The 20, or 30 will not do as good a job with SD signals... I found this out after talking to ABT... Apparently the 102 card works SD in 8 bit, and the 50's internal processing of SD will be 10...

I'm thinking I've made the correct choice...

Thanks, Royd

if your primary goal is SD only, the VP20 or VP30 with the ABT102 card should be just fine .... the VP50 should do the same with SD .... but hopefully there could be improvements with software releases for future versions... more processing power... could mean better images...

Big..

My primary goal is not SD... BUT, There are so many more SD channels than HD, it's a significant concern for me.

FYI The 20, or 30 will not do as good a job with SD signals... I found this out after talking to ABT... Apparently the 102 card works SD in 8 bit, and the 50's internal processing of SD will be 10...

I'm thinking I've made the correct choice...

Thanks, Royd

RoydRage,

I have the VP30 and it definitely processes SD better than the 8300HD set top box. The VP50 adds the ability of field reprogrammmability for algorithms, which the VP30 does not have, plus you will have the option of processing HD content. To be honest, my 1080i content from my provider (Comcast) is not very good, though 720p looks great.

The VP50 will also help with processing of HD DVD and BR, if you get that. If you don't have a native 1080p display device, (IIRC your display is 768p), this will also help in scaling this picture as well.

If you only want SD, you there may not be much improvement over a VP30/20, but I know Dale was working on improving algorithms and you won't be able to take advatage of that with the ABT102 in the 20/30 product.

You may want to rethink your HD needs, especially in the future. As always, if you don't like it when you get it, DVDO has a good return policy.

Hi Steve,

See above my post on improvments concerning VP-50 SD processing....

Also Flash.... I traded my SA4200HD in for the 8300 AND BOOOM!!! While the the HD signals look the same, maybe the 8300 is a little more natural, (less over Saturated), which I think might be a consequence of the DVI to HDMI converter cable...

The big news for me IS THAT THE SD SIGNALS LOOK WAAAAY BETTER ON THE 8300!

I wish someone could have told me that before... Plus I love the fact that the output res is displayed on front, and there is way less lag in changing channels...

I'm really happy with it... Got the Monster Ultra 1000 HDMI cable for it, NOW, if you say that the 30 makes the 8300's SD output look better I'll be Thrilled! not to mention what's it's going to do for DVD's. If I had bought the 50, and it made as much difference on the SD signals as going to the 8300 from the 4200 did I would have thought it was worth the $3k. They told me a DVDO that a lot of stuff is going to be coming up for the 50's handling of SD via future updates! The whole architecture of the 50 is geared towards updates.

I also got the 971 Oppo already setup with SDI, So I think I'm sittin pretty waiting for the 50...

Thanks you guys!

Royd

Big..

My primary goal is not SD... BUT, There are so many more SD channels than HD, it's a significant concern for me.

FYI The 20, or 30 will not do as good a job with SD signals... I found this out after talking to ABT... Apparently the 102 card works SD in 8 bit, and the 50's internal processing of SD will be 10...

I'm thinking I've made the correct choice...

Thanks, Royd

Hi Royd,

thanks for that... good to know... I'm moving to the vp50 also ..... great to know its an all 10 bit path .....

right now I have to reboot my VP30 about once or twice per week, otherwise I start to see a lot of jaggies.... the reboot fixes it.....


Cheers,

Marcelo

There's no weaving or deinterlacing at all. Each 1920x540 interlaced field is individually scaled to 1920x1080 (or whatever your desired resolution may be), with a vertical position offset between fields. All of the original 1920x1080 pixels are retained in their original interlaced pattern, with an additional 540 lines of interpolated pixels added to each field.

OK, thanks. But how does the result look, compared to a deinterlaced 1080p like the VP50 will do? Does the VP30 "version" have jaggies etc.? If not, what's the downside?

I'd still like an answer on this. How does the resulting 1080p compare between the VP30 and VP50? OK - very few here have perhaps seen the VP50 in action, but theoretically?

I'd still like an answer on this. How does the resulting 1080p compare between the VP30 and VP50? OK - very few here have perhaps seen the VP50 in action, but theoretically?
Let me try it "theoretically". It depends on the content:

film: The VP30 should be a bit softer (loss of resolution and detail) and it may sometimes show some slight line twittering. The VP50 should be sharper (more resolution and detail) and should show no line twittering - except if the twittering is in the source.

video: The VP30 should be a bit softer again, and it should show jaggies. The VP50 should be much "cleaner". Most jaggies should be cleaned up and there should be more resolution available.

I could use some good advice. Just installed a new VP30 along with a new DirecTV HD receiver (H20). My old RCA DTC100 took a dump. I need to output the VP30 using RGBHV which feeds my CRT projector. The old RCA DTC100 had a VGA output that used a breakout cable to switch it to a RGBHV and had a beautiful HD picture. All I seem to be able to do with the new VP30 is a 480p resolution. I've tried other higher resolutions without any luck. My projector should accept any possible resoultion. I just don't know how to properly set the output from the VP30. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Is there any way of disabling all the scaling, deinterlacing etc. that the VP30 does and let the signal just pass through (SD content)?

I was in a 'predicament' earlier today when a guy came over to look at the VP30/ABT102 to see if perhaps he wanted to buy it, but when he asked if I could disable it so he could easily see what it actually does to the signal - a reasonable and logical request - I suddenly got a stuttering voice and "ehm... ahm... ehm... no, I'd have to disconnect and reconnect everything :o ".

So is there a way, and if not, why? Afraid the difference won't be big enough to defend the investment? It would be great to A-B test in that way.

Is there any way of disabling all the scaling, deinterlacing etc. that the VP30 does and let the signal just pass through (SD content)?

I was in a 'predicament' earlier today when a guy came over to look at the VP30/ABT102 to see if perhaps he wanted to buy it, but when he asked if I could disable it so he could easily see what it actually does to the signal - a reasonable and logical request - I suddenly got a stuttering voice and "ehm... ahm... ehm... no, I'd have to disconnect and reconnect everything :o ".

So is there a way, and if not, why? Afraid the difference won't be big enough to defend the investment? It would be great to A-B test in that way.

Mostly because there isn't any SD output support.

Not certain if the new passthru feature will allow passthru of SD signals too but if so that'll be the first time a SD output option was possible on the VP30.

You can always run an extra output from your source direct to the display (most sources have several outputs and most displays have several inputs).

My sources don't. At best, I'd have to compare HDMI (VP30) with component (non-VP30) with my setup if I hooked up alternatives.

Mostly because there isn't any SD output support.

Not certain if the new passthru feature will allow passthru of SD signals too but if so that'll be the first time a SD output option was possible on the VP30.Due to a previous bug in software I was able to output 576i through analog RGBHV. It would be quite difficult to use this bug to intentionally output interlaced format when desired, but the hardware is indeed capable of outputting normal interlaced picture. It's just a matter enabling it with software, I think.

There are some HDCP handshaking issues between the 970HD and the VP30, but it can be made to work. Try turning on the VP30 first, switching to the appropriate HDMI input, and only then turning on the 970HD. If that still doesn't work, switch over to a different video input that will give you a signal (for example, cable TV coming in over component), then switch back to HDMI.

It will work eventually, though you may need to play with it for a minute to get the handshake to lock.

Has this been resolved in any firmware updates? Can it be?

I'm having all kinds of problems getting consistent HDCP handshake with my Oppo 970HD, VP30, and Sharp XV-Z2000. No problems when I bypass the VP30.

Has this been resolved in any firmware updates? Can it be?

I'm having all kinds of problems getting consistent HDCP handshake with my Oppo 970HD, VP30, and Sharp XV-Z2000. No problems when I bypass the VP30.
It could be the sharp interacting with the VP30 ... I have a 970, vp30 and an NEC XR5 ... no problems with me ....

Has this been resolved in any firmware updates? Can it be?

I'm having all kinds of problems getting consistent HDCP handshake with my Oppo 970HD, VP30, and Sharp XV-Z2000. No problems when I bypass the VP30.

With further testing, I've found that almost all of my HDCP handshaking issues occurred when I had more than one active HDMI source run into the scaler at a time. By turning off all of my other sources, the handshake process goes a lot smoother.

With further testing, I've found that almost all of my HDCP handshaking issues occurred when I had more than one active HDMI source run into the scaler at a time. By turning off all of my other sources, the handshake process goes a lot smoother.

Interesting. Unfortunately, I can't turn off my HD-Tivo, so that is unlikely to be a solution for me.

It could be the sharp interacting with the VP30 ... I have a 970, vp30 and an NEC XR5 ... no problems with me ....

True. I haven't had any handshake issues before though, even with my Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player in the mix, which is notorious for HDMI errors.

Interesting. Unfortunately, I can't turn off my HD-Tivo, so that is unlikely to be a solution for me.

It does have a standby mode, but I should mention that I have been using an HD Tivo with both the VP30 and the HD+ and never had a handshake problem. I bet it's the TV.

- Collin

Same here. I have two HDTiVos connected to the VP30 over HDMI without any problems.

I've never had HDMI/HDCP issues before with my VP30 and the HDTivo or HDA1. What's new to the mix is the Oppo. I'm going to try the beta Oppo firmware and see if that helps.

Hi all!

Thanks for a great forum.

I have just a quick question. I might be able to find answers on the web somewhere, but I'll try here first.

I have the Vp30, connected to a PJ using the HDMI output. Lately I have been playing (in my head) of adding a small PC-monitor (LCD type) to my home-cinema. Remove the bulky CRT...
I don't have any intention of getting a LCD-TV as of yet, since I do not watch TV. So I just want a small screen to do simle testing/mp3 playback/etc on.
However, the LCD monitor have VGA and DVI inputs.
I know there are component to DVI converters, as well as component to VGA converters, in the pricerange $150-300.
What I have been thinking of is to use the RGBHV output from the VP30, and using a VGA to RGBHV cable (normally I would use this cable to connect a VGA signal to the RGBHV input).
Will that work?

It would be nice though since I can have seperate output resolutions on those two outputs (the LCD I have do not support 1280x720, yeah its old...LOL)
Sadly there are very few component enabled LCD monitors out there.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

M.

Yes that should work, you can only have one output active at a time on the VP30 and any HDMI inputs to the VP30 which use HDCP copy protection can't be output via RGBHV for legal reason, but otherwise no problem (standard SVGA/XGA/SXGA resoltions are already setup in the output formats so fairly straight forward).

does anyone know of a store in north NJ where the VP30 can be seen in operation?
i'd like to demo one and see the SD performance (with abt102 card) before ordering a VP50.

thanks

Hi everyone
it's quite 2 hours that I'm reading this 3d to understand one thing:
my VP30 (+abt102+sdi) has the 1.07 version of firmware.
I decided to upgrade, but someone returns to 1.07.
Now I'm in confusion.
Is better or not to upgrade to the last version?
please help me
thanks

Mauro: I'm using the latest software version wtih no issues so far. I run component from a DVD player and from my HDTivo, composite from my kids VHS player and audio on all three. This then drives a component TV and a HDMI projector.

Hi everyone
it's quite 2 hours that I'm reading this 3d to understand one thing:
my VP30 (+abt102+sdi) has the 1.07 version of firmware.
I decided to upgrade, but someone returns to 1.07.
Now I'm in confusion.
Is better or not to upgrade to the last version?
please help me
thanks
mauro the last version, 1.1, is the best one .. most stable....

mauro the last version, 1.1, is the best one .. most stable....

For some, 1.1 has made the audio problems worse. I am now getting dropouts slightly more frequently, and they are of much longer duration when they do occur.

I've been noticing more artifacts/pixelated images with HD material since going to ver.1.10. Has anyone else noticed this?

Jeremy

I'm a little confused when it comes to the VP30's 1080i capabilities: I've read that 3:2 pulldown and deinterlacing of filmbased material is pretty straight forward and 'easy'. Does the VP30 successfully do this, and only has "problems" with video based 1080i sources?

Could someone spoon-feed me a little info about this?

Hello, I know this is probably a stupid ? but I have been looking at getting a vp30 for my panny 50phd8uk plasma. My ? is what kind of improvments can I expect? Are the panny scalers known to be very good? I currently have a hd-a1, 360 and 8300dvr hooked up mostly inputing in at 1080i. I dont have any dealers in my area so its hard to go see one in action. Thanks

I'm a little confused when it comes to the VP30's 1080i capabilities: I've read that 3:2 pulldown and deinterlacing of filmbased material is pretty straight forward and 'easy'. Does the VP30 successfully do this, and only has "problems" with video based 1080i sources?

The assembly of interlaced frames with 1080i works the same as it does with 480i, however it requires a lot more processing power. The VP30 can do proper reverse pulldown deinterlacing for 480i signals, but doesn't have the horsepower to deinterlace 1080i. Instead, it does what's called "field scaling", which is to scale each individual 1920x540 field to your desired resolution, with a vertical position offset between each field and the next. The result is that all of your original 1920x1080 pixels are present in their original interlaced order, with an additional 540 lines of vertical resolution interpolated in each field.

This isn't as good as proper reverse pulldown deinterlacing, but it works very well and can often fool the eye.

The VP50 will fully deinterlace 1080i to 1080p without the need of field scaling.

OK, thanks. So you don't really lose resolution with the VP30 way of doing it, but it's just not the very best way of doing it? Then perhaps I can live with the VP30 for 1080i sources as well.

What has made me wonder a bit, is that new 1080p capable televisions can from what I've read do proper deinterlacing of 1080i material. Not all of them, but some. If so, I could/should in that case send 1080i out from the VP30 (or directly from a HD source) and let the TV do the deinterlacing?

Cyborg that is the whole point of Beta, to test stuff out without the info being released to the public that it is coming soon :) that public may think it is vapor but it is in fact not ;)

DVDO planned passthru all along and like Josh said it is in Beta, no one will speak about it though as that is the nature of the game so don't ask ;)

-Gary

Gary, I am sure you are trying to be helpful, but I have been an IT Professional for 20 years which includes being a mainframe Systems Programmer, so I think I understand the term "Beta".

Oferlaor, the same applies to you and NDA's.

I wish you people would follow the discussion properly if you are going to post comments on it. As I have said more than once before, the information was in an article by Widescreen Magazine review, and a link to it is used on the DVDO website. If they don't want it known, they should not link to the information from their own website!

Josh responded a long time ago saying he would get back with some basic information on any problems doing it, but he never did.

It was discussed previously to any of my comments on this forum too.

I think DVDO are great guys, I have been in long correspondence with them prevously outside of this forum, and their service is on a par with some of the best I have ever experienced, all I was asking for was:-

1) A response to their statement in the magazine article they use on their website (quite fair I believe to ask, and nothing to do with NDA's). As far as Beta's are concerned, the details of what was in the next Beta were posted (here or on the website I can't remember), and they still included nothing about this problem, so I thought it was time to bring the subject up again, since many others as well myselft REALLY feel this is an important issue for them.

2) Josh kindly said on this forum that he would get back "next week" with some information, but he never did. That is why I have been asking for it the last few times, because all I expected was the information he said he would post.

Nothing malicious, but all I seem to have received (other than from people that also want the same function) is derogatory comments, or condecending explanations of simple concepts that I already understand by people who have not properly researched the discussion before sticking their oar in.

I appologise if this sounds a bit strong, but I seem to be spending more time explaining my posts and responding to others ill informed ones, than getting any information on what we really want to know.

And I promise to not discuss features before they have been tested...

I appologise if this sounds a bit strong, but I seem to be spending more time explaining my posts and responding to others ill informed ones, than getting any information on what we really want to know.

At the risk of throwing myself in the line of fire, I think this seems a bit harsh. It is clear they are working on it. We are very lucky that DVDO shows us any glimpses behind the curtain at all. NDAs and private betas are to protect the company from over promising publicly. Yes, they have admitted that they are working on 1080p pass through, but they have given no dates or schedules. The feature could always get pulled from a beta if its not reliable enough and they don't want to have publicly promised any sort of time frame.

As of this point there is very little practical use for a 1080p passthrough. Beyond HTPCs there are no real 1080p sources. The Samsung Blu-Ray is a poorly configured deinterlacer bolted onto a 1080i player. You are better off running it in 1080i mode. And the Toshiba HD-DVD is 1080i all the time. Everything else is SD or 1080i max.

- Collin

Wouldn't the solution for 1080P be to get a VP50?

I buy my devices to handle what I already have, as well as at the very least be able to handle my purchases over the next few months. I use an HTPC, and also have a PS3 on order. My next secondary display will also be native 1080p so I hope that finally explains why I ask the question.

I have already explained over and over my reasons for my posts and if anyone wants to comment on them again, kindly read them as well as the article on the DVDO website.

All I'll say now is that I hope it works and we get the details soon.

After more than 24 hours it appears no one cares to discuss this further. Maybe we can move on. ;)

Don

Yes that should work, you can only have one output active at a time on the VP30 and any HDMI inputs to the VP30 which use HDCP copy protection can't be output via RGBHV for legal reason, but otherwise no problem (standard SVGA/XGA/SXGA resoltions are already setup in the output formats so fairly straight forward).

Thanks!
In fact it did work... so now I can replace my bulky CRT with a super duper tiny 15"... LOL!
Got a perfect pixel-match. A bit cumbersome to change the display profiles every now and then, but it works ok. If there only was a button for display-profiles on the remote.

The Mrs. was all over it, and started to discuss what we now could add to the hifi-furniture(in the now vacant place), like flower/candle/thinghy-wise.... Uurgh! (not what I had in mind...)
Those lassies... as soon as they find a free spot for a "dust-collector device" they grap it. Maybe it was not such a good idea after all ;)

In either way, thanks for your help.

Thanks!
In fact it did work... so now I can replace my bulky CRT with a super duper tiny 15"... LOL!
Got a perfect pixel-match. A bit cumbersome to change the display profiles every now and then, but it works ok. If there only was a button for display-profiles on the remote.

The Mrs. was all over it, and started to discuss what we now could add to the hifi-furniture(in the now vacant place), like flower/candle/thinghy-wise.... Uurgh! (not what I had in mind...)
Those lassies... as soon as they find a free spot for a "dust-collector device" they grap it. Maybe it was not such a good idea after all ;)

In either way, thanks for your help.

It's a bit of a chess game, you really need to be thinking at least 5 moves in advance. :D

If you have a programmable remote there are direct IR commands to switch between Output Profiles 1-4 (see the Automation section on the DVDO website) but they can stop working if you don't switch off the VP30 at the mains very often or there's an output profile button on the remote (I think) then use Up/Down/Select.

I would like to report a loss of resolution problem, different from the one I posted earlier (see posting #4862 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7964518&&#post7964518) ). This problem occurs with a HDMI input at 480i, 48Hz locked or any other frame rate. The problem is related to SD interlaced signal only (480i and 576i).

Reproduction
* Panasonic 42” SD panel, TH-42PW6
* VP30/ABT102 FW 1.10 (or FW 1.07), output 852x480 analog RGB (or other analog or digital output or color space), 48Hz locked (or any other frame rate)
* OPPO 970HD with HDCP-free firmware 613, output signal 480i HDMI
* ABT/VRS test disk as included with the ABT102

VP30: Set HDMI config/Auto Color Space to On. OPPO: Put the test disk in the player and select the Static Patterns/Picture Control/Resolution pattern. The rightmost, upper part of the pattern (the black & white section) should show narrow divided vertical lines. But sometimes there are no lines, only a gray blur.

If the patterns shows divided lines: Change the OPPO Color Space (Setup/Video Setup Page/Color Space) from RGB to YCbCr 4:4:4 (or the other way around, depending on the current setting). The VP30 relocks and the rightmost pattern changes to an even gray (or it changes from an even gray to the narrow divided lines, depending on what you had before). Please note that this has nothing to do with the selected OPPO Color Space. The “grayness” occurs randomly, but you can always switch back and forth changing the OPPO Color Space. You may also try switching back and forth between input channels on the VP30. When the OPPO locks on to the HDMI signal, sometimes you get gray, sometimes you get vertical lines.

Note #1. The test pattern as outputted from the OPPO seems OK. If you select a analog output from the OPPO, the pattern is always OK (tested with S-VIDEO).

Note #2. If you set the OPPO to 480p, 720p of 1080i the problem disappears! (tested by setting the OPPO to these various resolutions) So it seems the sharpness problem is connected to 480i (which is bad..). This is including ABT102 card, I have not removed the ABT102 card to check if there is difference between SiI 504 and ABT102.

Note #3. If I select another output resolution, the problem still occurs. It’s just a little harder to see (tested with 1280x768).

Note #4. This reproduction is carried out with digital in and analog out. Therefore a HDCP-free input signal is needed. In this case the HDCP-free firmware as pointed out in this posting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8189937&&#post8189937). It could be that this problem is related to this HDCP-free firmware which was loaded in the OPPO. (Of course DVDO can test this with any input signal using their VP30 firmware which does not shut of analog out when using a HDCP protected input signal.) Later the problem has been reproduced with an 1280x1024 HDMI output (non-HDCP display).

Note #5. This problem occurs with both existing SD interlaced resolutions (480i and 576i (PAL)), but not with 1080i (see note #2) (576i was tested by setting the OPPO to forced PAL output). Because SD de-interlacing kicks in at 480i and 576i but not with 1080i, is seems this has to do with the SD signal path, but only when HDMI input is used.

Note #6. This is another problem than the output resolution related problem from the aforementioned posting #4862 (vertical lines from VP30 build-in pattern not sharp) for two reasons: 1) this problems occurs with FW 1.07 and 1.10 (the other problem only with FW 1.08 and above); and 2) this problem only occurs with HDMI SD input signal (the other problem occurs independent of input)

It's a bit of a chess game, you really need to be thinking at least 5 moves in advance. :D

If you have a programmable remote there are direct IR commands to switch between Output Profiles 1-4 (see the Automation section on the DVDO website) but they can stop working if you don't switch off the VP30 at the mains very often or there's an output profile button on the remote (I think) then use Up/Down/Select.
Opps... yesterday I saw the display profile button on the remote... why haven't I seen that before? LOL...

A bit easier now. Thanks!

M.

I have an iScan HD+ going to my projector. Just got DTV HR20 and it seems to only play sound over HDMI on the HD channels. I use an HDMI -> DVI adapter to the iScan, so I guess I can't be sure. It seems time to upgrade some stuff. The VP30 seems like a good deal. Debating on replacing my TV with an HDMI one, so I have two HDMI display devices. I really like the idea of replacing the million wires behind my tv with a few HDMI cables (each device goes to the iScan and TV both.) I have a few questions though.
1) Does the display profile switch between analog and HDMI, as well as resolutions?
2) Has anyone used a cheap y cable HDMI splitter with the VP30, or do I need the expensive one (I have a Tosh HD DVD player so I am a bit worried about handshaking.)
Thanks,
Warren.

I have an iScan HD+ going to my projector. Just got DTV HR20
1) Does the display profile switch between analog and HDMI, as well as resolutions?

Thanks,
Warren.

Is this the HR20-700 DVR from D*? I'd be curious to know if you can still connect the DVR via HDMI to the IScan (or vp30) and get a signal to the analog output. The HR10-250 does this. thx.

Hi I just recently bought a VP30 and when it arrives I plan to use it with my sony KDS-50A2000 for 1080p output for all my video components. I already have my TV set to ISF calibrations posted from a member here on this forum my question is will I have to adjust my tv again after recieving the VP30 and if so does anyone have any recommendations on what my setting should be? Any help you guys can give me is appreciated.

The HR20-700 is putting out video over HDMI->DVI cable to the iScan, and at the same time putting out s-video to the TV. I didn't try the RGB ports, since my TV isn't HD. I called their tech about the sound not working on HD channels, and he determined it isn't really downloading the new software. They are replacing it Tuesday.
Warren.

The HR20-700 is putting out video over HDMI->DVI cable to the iScan, and at the same time putting out s-video to the TV. I didn't try the RGB ports, since my TV isn't HD. I called their tech about the sound not working on HD channels, and he determined it isn't really downloading the new software. They are replacing it Tuesday.
Warren.

Ok, thx Warren. Hopefully the new HR20 will work correctly. Keep us posted.

Hi I just recently bought a VP30 and when it arrives I plan to use it with my sony KDS-50A2000 for 1080p output for all my video components. I already have my TV set to ISF calibrations posted from a member here on this forum my question is will I have to adjust my tv again after recieving the VP30 and if so does anyone have any recommendations on what my setting should be? Any help you guys can give me is appreciated.

It is tempting to think that with modern digital displays settings are transferable from set to set. This however is not the case. Differences in firmware, materials, and manufacturing processes mean each set needs to be calibrated individually. For the cash strapped I can see the appeal of trying posted tweaks, though I'm still of the opinion that they do more harm than good. However, if you're willing to throw down the cash for a VP30 you should surely be able to spare a few hundred to have somebody come in and tune up your set. It's money well spent, really.

To answer your question more directly. The VP30 is a nearly perfect source. There's essentially no difference between the color bars that come out of a VP30 and an Acupel pattern generator. If your set is tuned up to reference you don't need to recalibrate for the VP30. On the other hand most calibrations tune the whole video chain so that tunings in the set are actually making up for deficiencies in the DVD player for example. In this case substituting the VP30 for an out of spec DVD player will require a recalibration.

- Collin

I'm all for the THX certification ;)

good job Josh and DVDO guys

lots of people don't realize that for gear of this calibre, THX has some very very stringent tests things must pass, read up on THX Ultra 2 certification on audio gear, it's not just slap a label on something and pay a fee ;) not that some of their cert. isn't like that, but higher end stuff IMHO is not

-Gary

Thanks for the help collinp. Hey Josh would there ever be a 1080i deinterlace card for the VP30 as a future upgrade?

Thanks for the help collinp. Hey Josh would there ever be a 1080i deinterlace card for the VP30 as a future upgrade?

If you haven't placed you're VP30 order yet, you may want to look at the AVS VP50 discount. The VP50 looks like it will be a jaw dropping machine, particularly for 1080i deinterlacing. The AVS discount brings its price down pretty close to the VP30 MSRP.

- Collin

Thanks for the help collinp. Hey Josh would there ever be a 1080i deinterlace card for the VP30 as a future upgrade?
He has previously said no future upgrade. The upgrade is the VP-50

Thanks for the help collinp. Hey Josh would there ever be a 1080i deinterlace card for the VP30 as a future upgrade?
Josh Answered this question previously in this thread - the architecture of the VP30 does not support further upgrade to 1080i deinterlacing.... so, in short... nope.

you have to upgrade to the VP50 to get proper 1080i deinterlacing.... or lumagen....

In hindsight I wish they had 'jumped over' the VP30 and went straight for what is now known as VP50. I mean - have things really progressed so fast in this area that a nine month old, quite expensive (to my wallet, anyway) video processor shouldn't be able to do proper 1080i deinterlacing? If so, I now wish they had waited the necessary time and released the VP50 without releasing the VP30 first. Especially since it can't be upgraded to deinterlace 1080i. I know there is a nice upgrade program, but even with that, the end cost for me would be around the $1600 mark, which is quite steep for me. I am quite happy with my VP30 for my SD and most likely for future "HD light" viewing though.

Sorry.

In hindsight I wish they had 'jumped over' the VP30 and went straight for what is now known as VP50. I mean - have things really progressed so fast in this area that a nine month old, quite expensive (to my wallet, anyway) video processor shouldn't be able to do proper 1080i deinterlacing? If so, I now wish they had waited the necessary time and released the VP50 without releasing the VP30 first. Especially since it can't be upgraded to deinterlace 1080i. I know there is a nice upgrade program, but even with that, the end cost for me would be around the $1600 mark, which is quite steep for me. I am quite happy with my VP30 for my SD and most likely for future "HD light" viewing though.


Yeah $1600 dollars more for an update seems a bit much....I guess we both should have waited a bit.

In hindsight I wish they had 'jumped over' the VP30 and went straight for what is now known as VP50. I mean - have things really progressed so fast in this area that a nine month old, quite expensive (to my wallet, anyway) video processor shouldn't be able to do proper 1080i deinterlacing? If so, I now wish they had waited the necessary time and released the VP50 without releasing the VP30 first. Especially since it can't be upgraded to deinterlace 1080i. I know there is a nice upgrade program, but even with that, the end cost for me would be around the $1600 mark, which is quite steep for me. I am quite happy with my VP30 for my SD and most likely for future "HD light" viewing though.
Well, three things:

(1) If you had read the VP30 threads at the time when it was released here on AVSForum, you would have known that the VP30 doesn't do "full" 1080i deinterlacing. It was not a secret, but it was well known and openly confirmed by DVDO.

(2) If you had been here when the VP50 was released a few weeks ago, you could have got it for 1500 USD - 400 USD AVS discount + 250 USD international cost = 1350 USD. If you have a ABT102 card installed, it would have been only 1150 USD.

(3) Please note that the VP50 is more expensive overall compared to the VP30 when it was released. So the upgrade price is not just the "rent" for having had the VP30 for a year. You payed about 2000 USD for the VP30. The VP50 costs about 3000 USD. So in any case, even if you had not bought the VP30 and waited for the VP50 instead, you would have payed 1000 USD more than you did.

So overall I think these are *VERY* fair upgrade conditions.

Well, three things:

(1) If you had read the VP30 threads at the time when it was released here on AVSForum, you would have known that the VP30 doesn't do "full" 1080i deinterlacing. It was not a secret, but it was well known and openly confirmed by DVDO.

(2) If you had been here when the VP50 was released a few weeks ago, you could have got it for 1500 USD - 400 USD AVS discount + 250 USD international cost = 1350 USD. If you have a ABT102 card installed, it would have been only 1150 USD.

(3) Please note that the VP50 is more expensive overall compared to the VP30 when it was released. So the upgrade price is not just the "rent" for having had the VP30 for a year. You payed about 2000 USD for the VP30. The VP50 costs about 3000 USD. So in any case, even if you had not bought the VP30 and waited for the VP50 instead, you would have payed 1000 USD more than you did.

So overall I think these are *VERY* fair upgrade conditions.

I think the upgrade pricing is pretty fair too ...

most VP30 owners would probably not need to upgrade to the VP50 ... I don't need to ... but want to, and have ... but that's different

if you don't have 1080i/1080p sources .... the vp30 probably does 95% of what the vp50 would do for SD sources (5% given for extra processing power and ability to upgrade entire software at home, without having to ship back to DVDO -ie: ABT102 card) ..

pretty good in my books... do I wish the upgrade cost only $200???? ... for sure! :)

if you don't have 1080i/1080p sources .... the vp30 probably does 95% of what the vp50 would do for SD sources (5% given for extra processing power and ability to upgrade entire software at home, without having to ship back to DVDO -ie: ABT102 card) ..
Well, there are a few more things the VP50 does better:

(1) It will do PReP (reinterlacing + deinterlacing, in case the source device refuses to output 480i).
(2) It already has some fixes/improvements for SD deinterlacing over the VP30.
(3) There will probably be more new algorithms added to the VP50. Maybe noise reduction and/or detail enhancement? (that's just speculation on my part)

Additionally, even if you don't have HD sources today, maybe you'll have some in a year from now?

Well, three things:

(1) If you had read the VP30 threads at the time when it was released here on AVSForum, you would have known that the VP30 doesn't do "full" 1080i deinterlacing. It was not a secret, but it was well known and openly confirmed by DVDO.

(2) If you had been here when the VP50 was released a few weeks ago, you could have got it for 1500 USD - 400 USD AVS discount + 250 USD international cost = 1350 USD. If you have a ABT102 card installed, it would have been only 1150 USD.

(3) Please note that the VP50 is more expensive overall compared to the VP30 when it was released. So the upgrade price is not just the "rent" for having had the VP30 for a year. You payed about 2000 USD for the VP30. The VP50 costs about 3000 USD. So in any case, even if you had not bought the VP30 and waited for the VP50 instead, you would have payed 1000 USD more than you did.

So overall I think these are *VERY* fair upgrade conditions.


I upgraded from an iScan HD to the VP30 because there was a nice upgrade program back then as well, and because I wanted the latest tech. 1080i wasn't an issue for me back then at all, so I'm not even sure I researched it. It actually isn't an issue for me at this point in time either, but I imagine it will be in a couple of months.

I agree that the upgrade pricing from the VP30 to the VP50 is very nice, I'm not debating that. I also know that with the features the VP50 has over the VP30, it would have to be more expensive anyway. I agree with all that.

I'm just being a little 'childish' and wishing they had jumped from the HD+ to a processor that had the SD and HD deinterlacing built-in, so that I had upgraded to that.
Then, even if a VP50 came along and was still even better and with more features, I would have felt that the processor I had upgraded to was more future proof.
Just some wishful thinking, is all.

I'm just being a little 'childish' and wishing they had jumped from the HD+ to a processor that had the SD and HD deinterlacing built-in, so that I had upgraded to that.
I understand that very well... :)

Well, there are a few more things the VP50 does better:

(1) It will do PReP (reinterlacing + deinterlacing, in case the source device refuses to output 480i).
(2) It already has some fixes/improvements for SD deinterlacing over the VP30.
(3) There will probably be more new algorithms added to the VP50. Maybe noise reduction and/or detail enhancement? (that's just speculation on my part)

Additionally, even if you don't have HD sources today, maybe you'll have some in a year from now?


and Madshi,

those are exactly the reasons why I'm upgrading!! :)

but wouldn't you agree that for someone who has a VP30 and no HD sources.... the upgrade is a nice to have... not necessarily a must have?

given the options and cash... sure, take the VP50!

These upgrades are why I went with DVDO a few years ago. I got an HD then upgraded to an HD+, then upraded to a VP30, and now the VP50. While I don't feel I needed to upgrade to the VP50, especially since it will mess up my calibration with the VP30. You maximize your trade in and get your lowest price at the beginning with the AVS discount and trade in.

but wouldn't you agree that for someone who has a VP30 and no HD sources.... the upgrade is a nice to have... not necessarily a must have?
Yes and no. If you don't have any HD sources, and if you don't need PReP (because all your source devices are able to give out 480i over HDMI), and if you don't need/want any of the features which might be added to the VP50 at a later date, then I agree. That are a lot of "if"s, though. Personally, I think that PReP can be extremely helpful especially for SD sources. E.g. here in Germany most satellite receiver boxes refuse to give out 480i over HDMI. PReP can be a life saver in such situations.

(1) It will do PReP (reinterlacing + deinterlacing, in case the source device refuses to output 480i).

Just to be clear, PReP will not be present in the VP50's initial software release. It's expected to be added in a later firmware.

Just to be clear, PReP will not be present in the VP50's initial software release. It's expected to be added in a later firmware.Yeah, like display profiles for iScan HD. ;)

Ok, My D* HR20 HD DVR seems to only be putting out sound over HDMI. My HD+ only has DVI so this is bad.
If I have the HR20 plugged into the VP30 and the VP30 feeding my Projector, will the VP30 take the sound from the HDMI and route it out the optical port? Or do I need to route the HDMI out from the VP30 into an HDMI amplifier?
Warren.

It's been quite a while since our last FW update. Any word on when we can expect one that finally fixes the audio problems?

Hi all!

I have a weird problem back home, nothing major, just weird. I have not been able to isolate it so I will just tell you what I see.

I have a VP30/102. It uses HDMI cable to a PJ. I just resently added a small LCD monitor to the VP30 using RGBHV-VGA cable. I set up everything and it is working fine. I also added display profiles to easily switch between the two outputs.
As inputs I use a DVICO Tvix5000(DVI-HDMI), and a DVD player using component.
I previously also had component cables from the VP30 to the PJ, but have stopped using them (and I never did see this problem when using those to the PJ)

Ok, let's descibe the problem (if I can...)

Sometimes when I use the tvix the output port switches from HDMI to RGBHV (e.g from PJ to LCD monitor). I see on the VP30 that my output profile has changed from 1 to 3 (1 is HDMI out (1280x720), while 3 is RGBHV (1024x768)). It is easy to switch back, but nevertheless it switched outputs....
This is usually when my source goes from from NTSC to PAL (the tvix has a auto-framerate switch going from 23.796 to 25fps when playing PAL material, and back when finished).
In fact the output sometimes switches from RGBHV to HDMI as well.
I have a feeling the VP30 switches output depending on where it last used the specified framerate (that came out weird), let me explain by an example:
If I used 25fps material from TVIX using RGBHV output(LCD monitor); go to bed, sleep, go to work, then back in the afternoon, boot up the tvix, switch output profile to HDMI(PJ), watch a 23.976fps episode, then selects a 25 episode, the VP30 switched output to RGBHV again. I then need to switch manually to display profile 1. From then on it does not happen again, at least not until I decide to see the specific material again using RGBHV output, this time it switches to the HDMI output...
This (as far as I can remember) do not happen when I use similar framerates (I can see many 23.796fps episodes in a row over many days... but as soon as I use 25fps it switches back (but only if I last used my monitor for that perticular framerate))

Puh... I recon most of you had trouble understanding that... I will let it be for a while, read it a few times myself, and maybe make it more readable...

So, have any of you experienced anything similar?

Grateful for any feedback you can give me.
Nothing major, but it bugs me sometimes since I need to restart the program I was watching...

Cheers!

M.

So, have any of you experienced anything similar?Assuming I understood correctly, this is completely the way the VP30 is supposed to work - when display profile 'auto' setting is ON. To disable auto switching between display profiles when inputting different frame rates just turn this function OFF: Output setup, Display profile, Auto, Off.

Indeed, all you need to do is manually choose to use Display Profile 1 while feeding it a PAL signal over that input & that should be remembered next time. Always switch input before changing display profile to make sure that doesn't get altered & remembered if you leave Auto ON which personally I think is essential.

Yes and no. If you don't have any HD sources, and if you don't need PReP (because all your source devices are able to give out 480i over HDMI), and if you don't need/want any of the features which might be added to the VP50 at a later date, then I agree. That are a lot of "if"s, though. Personally, I think that PReP can be extremely helpful especially for SD sources. E.g. here in Germany most satellite receiver boxes refuse to give out 480i over HDMI. PReP can be a life saver in such situations.


had not considered the PRep function.... fair point.

With all this talk about "not proper 1080i deinterlacing", what exactly does the VP30 do? For example, if I have a 1080p panel and I set the VP30's output to 1080p, what does it do with the 1080i input? It still converts it to 1080p right? If so, how is the deinterlacing substandard? I haven't seen any technical explanation of what is going on, so I'd like to know what my VP30 is doing (I don't have the deinterlacing card) when I feed it a 1080i signal and set the output format to 1080p. What am I going to get in that instance? I've read the response about "field scaling", but I'm not sure if that applies to the 102 card or if it does that without the card? I'm a bit confused about what I'll be getting without the deinterlacing card if I set it to 1080p output.

Thanks,
Mike

With all this talk about "not proper 1080i deinterlacing", what exactly does the VP30 do? For example, if I have a 1080p panel and I set the VP30's output to 1080p, what does it do with the 1080i input?

With 1080i input, each 1920x540 interlaced field is directly scaled to 1920x1080, with a vertical position offset between even and odd fields. All of the original pixels are retained in their original interlaced pattern, with 540 lines of interpolated pixels added to each field.

The original fields are never deinterlaced.

I've read the response about "field scaling", but I'm not sure if that applies to the 102 card or if it does that without the card?

The ABT102 only deinterlaces SD content. 1080i inputs bypass the ABT102 and are field scaled instead.

The HD-DL chip in the VP50 will deinterlace 1080i without field scaling.

It's been quite a while since our last FW update. Any word on when we can expect one that finally fixes the audio problems?
I would imagine it is when they are done on VP50...

The VP30, VP20, and VP50 are a range of video processors that share core functionality, the sound processing being one example.

Once the audio problems are totally eliminated in VP50, which is the current device being worked on for debugging, the audio should fixed on all VPx0 products and a firmware update will be provided.

StooMonster

Assuming I understood correctly, this is completely the way the VP30 is supposed to work - when display profile 'auto' setting is ON. To disable auto switching between display profiles when inputting different frame rates just turn this function OFF: Output setup, Display profile, Auto, Off.

Thanks for a quick feedback!
It is indeed set to Auto (I did wonder what that meant in terms of usage... now I know).
Will try out various settings, maybe I will turn off Auto to have control, or do as choddo2006 says with display profiles for both PAL and NTSC using PJ, as well as PAL and NTSC profiles for the RGBHV output.

This forum is superb for information/feedback! Thanks again guys!

JaniH: I had the pleasure to visit Finland/Helsinki this weekend (w/spouse which is finnish). Great place! But the language... at least I know how to order a beer in finnish (but thats about it... ;) )

M.

JaniH: I had the pleasure to visit Finland/Helsinki this weekend (w/spouse which is finnish). Great place! But the language... at least I know how to order a beer in finnish (but thats about it... ;) )Actually I was in Helsinki too this weekend. :)

Actually I was in Helsinki too this weekend. :)

Well, maybe I saw you then ;)
Didn't do much though, walked the nice pedestrian-shoreline on sunday, had a look at the sun trhu a telescope at the little observatory at the park there (saw some sunflares...). Had a wee visit at Stockmann on saturday and some mexican food at Santa Fe resturant.
Sadly I didn't see any good Home Theater-shops... hehe...

M.

Well I ordered a VP30 with the 102 card. I just couldn't see the extra 800 bucks to de-interlace already astounding looking 1080i material. Maybe next year when I get a 1080p projector.
I hate when people ask questions that have already been anwsered, but this is page 187 so: What are the audio problems and is it only some people having them?
Will it come with the latest software, or do I need to update it right away?
Thanks,
Warren.

Well I ordered a VP30 with the 102 card. I just couldn't see the extra 800 bucks to de-interlace already astounding looking 1080i material. Maybe next year when I get a 1080p projector.
I hate when people ask questions that have already been anwsered, but this is page 187 so: What are the audio problems and is it only some people having them?
Will it come with the latest software, or do I need to update it right away?
Thanks,
Warren.
it should ship with 1.1 software, which is the latest version, and also the firmare of the ABT102 card should have been updated since its new.... most people don't have audio issues with the 1.1 version ....

it should ship with 1.1 software, which is the latest version, and also the firmare of the ABT102 card should have been updated since its new.... most people don't have audio issues with the 1.1 version ....

Not true. Refer to http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=708432 to see that in that poll more than half of VP30 owners are having problems with 1.1 so it is still a big problem. I know that DVDO are aware of it and are working on a solution its just that it is taking a heck of a long time....

more than half of VP30 owners are having problems ....


hmmm ..... I think that needs a slight modification - "more than half of VP30 owners who answered the poll on this forum are having problems". I'm not saying there aren't problems - I have them occasionally still and am waiting for 1.11 somewhat impatiently. Just that you can't really assume that more than half of all owners have problems based on the poll. Someone who doesn't have problems might not come searching for this forum, whereas someone who does will. And, someone on this forum who doesn't have problems is less likely to answer a poll than someone who does.

And some of us never had a problem. I'm using 1.09a(the beta of 1.10) without problems, just like the previous versions. I'm running the audio over HDMI(expcept the HDA1 which goes to the receiver first) to the VP30. I don't know if that is part of the reason or not that I have no problems.

hmmm ..... I think that needs a slight modification - "more than half of VP30 owners who answered the poll on this forum are having problems". [...] And, someone on this forum who doesn't have problems is less likely to answer a poll than someone who does.
Indeed. And some of those who doesn't have problems maybe simply do not notice or do not care about the dropouts. It's just hard to tell, until you can measure the dropouts and get some real data about it. Probably DVDO has done this. The funny thing is that this issue is there, whether you use HDMI or not. You could speculate that the (audio) software process for the analog side would not have been changed from HD+ to VP30, which makes me wonder if there could be a hardware issue that must be worked around? Useless speculation, I know :confused:

Slonk
The audio drop outs appear to be gone on the VP-50 and I expect the fix will be in a future FW update for the VP-30/20

Slonk
The audio drop outs appear to be gone on the VP-50 and I expect the fix will be in a future FW update for the VP-30/20

I imagine the fix will only be on thx certified models

I imagine the fix will only be on thx certified models

why would you imagine that :confused:

-Gary

The audio drop outs appear to be gone on the VP-50 and I expect the fix will be in a future FW update for the VP-30/20
This is good news! Are you sure it is more recent than this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8457256&&#post8457256) posting or this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8457601&&#post8457601) one?

I have not had any dropouts in 2 weeks. Due to differences in equipment I can only really speak for myself but it is better than VP-30 right now.

why would you imagine that :confused:

-Gary
Just trying to interject some humor.
Seriously as far as the thx logo goes i know alot of folks think it is a sham and a hoax but having the thx logo on a product really does boost its value.
I would go so far to say that the most important point in getting the logo for your vp50 is for resale value if you ever want to sell your vp50.

Hey guys I am stuck between getting the vp20 or a newer panel. I have the aquos lc-37d7u, its native being 1366x768, will the vp20 make a large improvement in PQ since it can match the native rez opposed to reg 720p sources?

My other option is just to get the newer LC-37D9U which has a faster response, better contrast and 1080p. Any advice?

Hmm... this thread was on it's way to page 2... :eek:

OK - I suddenly thought of something the other day:

Since PReP will be a new feature that is to be added to the VP50 later on in a firmware update...



...is it then a stretch to hope that it can also be made available for the VP30?

Does the VP30 "have what it takes" to add such a feature in a firmware?

...is it then a stretch to hope that it can also be made available for the VP30?

Don't hold your breath. The 'underscan' feature on the HD+ never made it into the HD despite being told (initially) that it would be in a future fw upgrade.

Since PReP will be a new feature that is to be added to the VP50 later on in a firmware update...

...is it then a stretch to hope that it can also be made available for the VP30?

Does the VP30 "have what it takes" to add such a feature in a firmware?

I suspect that the VP30 doesn't have the hardware capable of doing PReP (probably more to do with internal routing of the video signal as apposed to just horsepower).

Last night I tried the test disk and I was just wandering if everything is working as it should in my VP30 and ABT102(hdmi 720p50, rgb, 59.94locked, deinter: auto). Using hs60(hdmi), denon1920 sdi.

I saw some jaggies in the wawing USA flag, normal?

In the restaurant scene there was some small judder when camera was moving accross the foob table, normal?

Oval scene with the car, all the different cadence(?, 2-2 etc. anyway) were not smooth, normal?

For some reason I thought that this new ABT102 card would handle everything without any problems. Maybe I just have misunderstood?

I was just wondering if my ABT102 was working at all. DirectV HD looks great, but non hd channels look very bad. I have it set to native output, so it should be sending 480i to the VP30. How do you know if the thing is doing anything or not? I don't have a 480i dvd player. Tempted to get the oppo for that.
Warren.

I was just wondering if my ABT102 was working at all. DirectV HD looks great, but non hd channels look very bad. I have it set to native output, so it should be sending 480i to the VP30. How do you know if the thing is doing anything or not?

Hit the Info button. It will tell you whether the ABT102 is installed or not. You should also have "Deinterlacing" options in the Input Adjust menu, such as Auto, Film Bias, Video, etc. If those are selectable the chip is working. If they're grayed out, the ABT102 is not active.

I was just wondering if my ABT102 was working at all. DirectV HD looks great, but non hd channels look very bad. I have it set to native output, so it should be sending 480i to the VP30. How do you know if the thing is doing anything or not? I don't have a 480i dvd player. Tempted to get the oppo for that.
Warren.

My experience with a DirecTv:

No 480i using HDMI or component even when set to native, only 480p. If you use s-video you get 480i. Others have said otherwise but that's what I get.

Hit the info button, it'll tell you what you are getting at the top.

I read that 480i is an advantage of the new HR-20. Mine has sound problems so I am swithing it out. Maybe the new one will look better.
Warren.

I read that 480i is an advantage of the new HR-20. Mine has sound problems so I am swithing it out. Maybe the new one will look better.
Warren.

The HR20 definitely does do 480i via HDMI.

So does the HR10-250. All three of my HR10-250 units output 480i over HDMi.

I begin this post with the sad long thread apology-

I am sorry if this has already been asked...but I did a thread search without any luck, and 188 pages is super long to read through completely.

Can I take the SDI card from my HD+ and simply plug it into a VP30? Is there a software disk I need, or does it simply "plug and play"?

I am also concerned about make the switch from my HD+ because of the potential audio dropouts, so I am very interested in hearing about when this is absolutely resolved.

I begin this post with the sad long thread apology-

I am sorry if this has already been asked...but I did a thread search without any luck, and 188 pages is super long to read through completely.

Can I take the SDI card from my HD+ and simply plug it into a VP30? Is there a software disk I need, or does it simply "plug and play"?

I am also concerned about make the switch from my HD+ because of the potential audio dropouts, so I am very interested in hearing about when this is absolutely resolved.

dave7,
your SDI card can be put into the VP30 and no software needs to be installed ("plug'n'play") to make it work !
As for audio dropouts, the problem only occurs very occassionally and only with certain branded devices. DVDO promise that a fix is on the way ! Still waiting though. :confused: :rolleyes:

dave7,
As for audio dropouts, the problem only occurs very occassionally and only with certain branded devices. DVDO promise that a fix is on the way ! Still waiting though. :confused: :rolleyes:

I'm using Toslink and I have dropout on every source between 1,5 - 2 hours. I would not call this very occassionally. I also had HD+ before and never had any problems with it. I have Denon 1920, Marantz 8500 and Topfield 5100, but I think it does not matter what device you connect to Toslink input, there will be dropouts.

Joe,

Have you tried the Coax instead?

Joe,
Have you tried the Coax instead?
I tried coax for input: makes no difference. ( I have no coax on preamp, so cannot test that.)

I can not recall ever having seen dropouts (VP30 or VP50 Beta) on my DVD players. I have a Photobridge which I use as a music and slide show player and I have never had an audio dropout on that device. Both of the DVD players and the Photobridge are on component inputs. Component audio and video run through the VP30, although I am thinking of changing that to bypass it. When the photobridge is playing music it puts out a 720p video stream which is fairly static.

With my SA8300HD DVR's using HDMI I do get audio issues and some video issues. I believe that the vast majority of them have to do with the DVR and not the iScan. I see the same types of issues on a Pioneer plasma that has the same type of DVR as its input. The iScan device just seems to magnify the problem. I suspect that when the DVR looses signal or the cable transmission path "glitches" due to some momentary issue there is a problem with (re)gaining a proper HDMI/HDCP handshake between the VPxx and the DVR. Either a System reset of the iScan device (on a VP30 that requires a power cycle, on the VP50 there is an RS232 command to do it without unplugging the unit) or a reboot of the DVR which obviously forces a complete handshake initiation, the problem is cleared up. I have recently begun running the Audio around the VPxx for the DVR's. That has helped the problem (fewer dropouts) but the problem is still there which kind of points a finger at the DVR or an inability of the VPxx and DVR to properly regain HDMI/HDCP synchronization on a momentary glitch.

This just reinforces the statement that the problem is very device depenedent.

This just reinforces the statement that the problem is very device depenedent.

Hi Barry,

I dont think those that are affected by the dropouts are disputing that. What we are saying though is that the often made statement of it being "very rare" is frustrating since many seem to be suffering from this. How many? Who knows since no one has made a study into it beyound the simple poll here in this forum but I would say that it is definitely more than "one or two" as often implied. I happen to know that DVDO had made this a top priority on the VP30 a few months ago and that along would seen to reinforce that this is more widespread than believed.

So as we sit here patiently waiting (in my case approaching a year) it helps to keep in mind that DVDO have dropped all other product support in the quest to fix this. NO wait - what was I thinking. Surely the VP50 and newer products wouldnt take priority - surely NO :)

Smart money says it wont appear before the next VP50 upgrade???

Re the upgrade arrival, I think you are correct.

All I was trying to point out (as many of us already know) is that it is a very tough problem that is very dependent on what specific equipment is in the chain. I sympathize with DVDO re their inability to solve the problem, but I hold my real anger to the industry at large and the whole problem with the adoption of "standards" that have issues in that they can be ambiguously interpreted by implementers.

I would love to know the total sales volume of the VP30 and how many have contributed to this forum as a % of total owners.

Having been in the digital software field for all of my working life (started in 1960 and am now retired) I am ashamed at what goes on with "firmware" and the acceptance by the public of poorly functioning products if the problem is "software/firmware". If the product put out smoke (unless it is a tailpipe or chimney) you can be rest assured it would be returned. The worst situation is in the cable industry where there are so many players in the chain that it is surprising that it works at all. Having said that I am a cable subscriber and with all of the problems, it is still (IMHO) the best thing out there for me in my location (I was a DirecTV customer for 15 years). I get the clearest picture, the highest resolutions, all digital from head end to PJ when so broadcast; and a set of annoyances that I have accepted.

I am embraking on a new tack where I will be sending a monthly letter to my cable company (I now keep a log of all "significant" problems) requesting a credit for lack of service delivery. I can't "steal" their service, so quid-pro-quo; the need to deliver the service they have been paid for.

I think I get the audio dropouts but only on HD content. I can't remember ever getting them when using RGBS into component1 but when using 1080i into RGBHV/component3 (this is both from the same SkyHD box, with the same TOSlink input!) I can remember having a few dropouts. I'll try to do a more thorough test over a few hours once the vp50 is installed.

Hard to know if it's the Sky box though, they seem quite twitchy. I blame Thomson.

Joe,

Have you tried the Coax instead?

I haven't tried because of many reports that it makes no difference. I think it is odd that some people here want to downplay this problem and say that the problem is elsewhere in the chain.

There are many people here who had HD+ before and never had an issue with audio dropouts until moving to VP30. What frakking else is there to blame but the VP30.

I just sent this to DVDO about my audio issues with my DirecTV H20:

I have a VP30 (1.10 firmware). I am still having issues with loss of audio with my DirecTV H20. I have sent emails before, but I think I have some more information this time. Here is my setup:

TV: Mitsubishi WT-42313 (HDMI to DVI from VP30)
AV Receiver: Denon AVR-1905
DirecTV: H20 (HDMI for audio and video)
DVD: OPPO 970HD

When I change channel on the H20 occasionally I get no sound. The problem always seems to be with Dolby Digital audio. If I go into the H20 menu and tell it to turn off Dolby Digital I get sound. If I turn DD back on, I get no sound. This audio change is done all on the same channel. If I turn off the VP30 and back on, the problem is still there. If I unplug the VP30 the sound will return. I always thought this was a HDMI sound problem, but it looks like it maybe a DD processing issue. When the channel change occurs my Denon will do a cycle of changing from digital to analog and if it finds the audio correctly it will switch back to digital. The analog and digital sound is denoted with two graphics on its display. When the sound is not working it says it is using dolby pro logic, and when it is it is dolby digital. Other times, it will switch back to dolby digital but the sound is gone, the only indication of a problem is a red led (dolby digital indicator) flashing. This also seems to represent a DD processing issue.

My OPPO 970HD will also have one or two times in a movie where there is small (one second) audio drop, but it always comes back. This problem seems like the HDMI audio dropout issue.

I think I get the audio dropouts but only on HD content. I can't remember ever getting them when using RGBS into component1 but when using 1080i into RGBHV/component3 (this is both from the same SkyHD box, with the same TOSlink input!) I can remember having a few dropouts. I'll try to do a more thorough test over a few hours once the vp50 is installed.

Hard to know if it's the Sky box though, they seem quite twitchy. I blame Thomson.

Hi Choddo,

Good news but I think your problem is the rather dodgy SkyHD box and not your VP. Many people get audio problems with HD content and when its outputing a DD 5.1 signal. On my VP I get dropouts on all sources, including analog but when I bypass the VP30 those all stop ..... except for Sky HD content and 5.1. Funny but BBC 5.1 doesnt seem to dropout at all. Also weird is that a Sky+ box is perfect with 5.1 so its something to do with the Thompson box and its firmware - oh boy more firmware upgrades/issues etc

I have also read that that trying different optical cables can improve the problem - but why this would be so is still a mystery.

I haven't tried because of many reports that it makes no difference. I think it is odd that some people here want to downplay this problem and say that the problem is elsewhere in the chain.

There are many people here who had HD+ before and never had an issue with audio dropouts until moving to VP30. What frakking else is there to blame but the VP30.

I have used both and it made no difference. I even tried feeding the optical into a optical/coax converter to try buffering it somehow and that made no difference. This is definitely a bitstream error in the generated bitstream out of the VP30 that seems to cause dropouts on some amps and is ignored on others. Well thats my 2p/2c worth.

I haven't tried because of many reports that it makes no difference. I think it is odd that some people here want to downplay this problem and say that the problem is elsewhere in the chain.

There are many people here who had HD+ before and never had an issue with audio dropouts until moving to VP30. What frakking else is there to blame but the VP30.

I didn't intent to downplay it. Mine was a sincere question as I have an HD+ and am considering the VP30.

I didn't intent to downplay it. Mine was a sincere question as I have an HD+ and am considering the VP30.

My rant was not ment for you, sorry. I was trying to comment this response:


dave7,
your SDI card can be put into the VP30 and no software needs to be installed ("plug'n'play") to make it work !
As for audio dropouts, the problem only occurs very occassionally and only with certain branded devices. DVDO promise that a fix is on the way ! Still waiting though.

Ok, putting the VP30 to use I am finding the audio dropouts. My Cox DVR always had that problem, so I didn't blame it, but I was watching a dvd last night. My panny 97s is hooked up with component, and optical audio, and the VP30 is hooked to my Stereo with optical audio, so no HDMI in the audio path, the HDMI is only going to my projector. The sound dropped out at least once in the movie. Maybe for a third of a second. Nothing that bothers me terribly, since I am used to it with Cox, but I do hope they fix it.
Warren.

My rant was not ment for you, sorry. I was trying to comment this response:
Joe Finn,
My response was not meant to start a flame war. I stand by what I say. I think barrygordon has summed it up pretty well. Certain devices will trigger a dropout when paired up to the VPxx. While other source components rarely ever get dropouts. DVDO need to pool into their resources from a proper regulated survey of users and gather valuable info as to what brands of products produce dropouts and if it's via HDMI , digital coax or optical or all of them. Is it happening on SD or HD ?? Also is it more prevalent when listening to a pcm signal or a digital output (DTS/DD).
It pains me to know that some are getting regular dropouts and others hardly see it rear its' ugly head, once a week !
Until it is properly charted we may never know why certain brands (which many share similar internal electronics) cause these hiccups. :(

Joe Finn,
Certain devices will trigger a dropout when paired up to the VPxx. While other source components rarely ever get dropouts.

Until it is properly charted we may never know why certain brands (which many share similar internal electronics) cause these hiccups. :(
I think you have provided the best sum up EVER:
- Certain devices produce dropouts when paired with VPxx
- Other devices produce dropouts more rarely when paired with VPxx

I know one device which has the same electronics inside on every hiccup. :(

At this point I would like to reiterate the following:

The only problem I seem to have is with my DVRs (2 SA8300HD units)
I am running audio directly from the coaxial output to a Lexicon MC-1 bypassing the VPxx

Tuesday is a heavy viewing night for me. I cought up on some previously recorded shows. There were minor dropouts, some of which were accompanied by video pixelation.

I was switching back and forth between the two DVRs (changing input select on the VPxx.

On one DVR the two programs being recorded stopped recording at the same time, and then resumed 2 minutes later. This happened once during the night. It occurred 54 minutes into the recording session.

On the other DVR two programs stopped recording after 6 minutes and never resumed.

I am sure that the DVR that stopped recording and resumed never rebooted. It might have done some sort of a 'Soft reset' (happened too fast). This is the second time I have seen this. The recorder that just stopped recording after 6 minutes may have rebooted but then it should have restarted the recordings after about 5 minutes (the time it takes to reboot).

I am convinced (for no provable reason) that there is a problem as stated before (bu myself and others) in the HDMI/HDCP handshaking between the SA8300HD and the VPxx. Sometimes it is an audio dropout and some times it is what happened last night. For some reason synchronization is lost and while attempting to regain it, bad things happen. Sometimes it is audio drop (video stays fine) sometimes it is the nonsense from last night.

The key factor here is that the audio does not go through the VPxx at all. It goes around it. Ergo the loss of audio is a DVR problem that might be triggered in many different ways. Is the VPxx contributing to the poroblem? I say yes because I have an identical DVR connected to a Pioneer Plasma TV via HDMI/HDCP/DVI and I do not see this set of problems. In that system the audio is not over the HDMI channel but via analog output.

I am becoming less confident that it is "just a VPxx Audio dropout problem"

I completely agree with Barry in that most digital broadcast devices seem to be prone to audio dropouts and I can easily believe that HDMI/HDCP issues can trigger more audio dropouts (although the VP30 is my only HDMI audio sink so I can't bypass it to test). However the VP30 focused audio dropouts several of us are referring to as the "Vpx0 audio dropout bug" are those that occur with devices which have NO HDMI, IN or OUT of the VP30. These devices use Component, SDI, Opti, Coax or Analogue paths.

In my case two common DVD players (Oppo 971 via SDI/Opti and Denon 5900/A11 via Component/Coax), my Amp has no HDMI and gets audio from the VP30 via Coax (does the same via Opti). Watching DVDs with audio via VP30 I get dropouts, going direct to the amp I get no dropouts.

The only digital audio sources I've ever heard that featured dropouts are cheap nasty broadcast boxes and cheap nasty PC soundcards. Even the cheap nasty CD players I've seen/used have been better behaved that the 2 VP30s I've had.

Reliable audio sources into my Amp have never had issues so there HAS to be a difference between the reliable Digital stream going into the VP30 and what is coming out of it. If this doesn't get sorted soon I may have to go to the bother of setting up a PC with two digital inputs, one fed from the extra output of a known good source and one fed from the extra output of the VP30/50 and leave it capturing all the time. I'm guessing the bits won't match, alas I don't have the gear to analyse the raw stream but I bet DVDO do. ;)

As I have posted before, the VP30 is not the only HDMI device to have audio dropouts. My SA8300HD has drop outs (at least one per HD Show). I have the audio connected directly to my Pioneer AVR via Coax. It does not go through the VP30.

It must be a buffer issue beacuse when I rewind back to the lost audio segment and replay, the audio is there, so it is not the cable signal.

I am fortunate that I have enough inputs on my AVR to handle all of my sources and the macros on the RC9500 help simplify operation.

Yes, I would like the VP30 to operate perfectly, but unfortunately, it may not only be the VP30, but a combination of many issues associated with digital electronics, which manifest itself in the last piece in the processing chain.

How do I connect a VP30 to my plasma through a VGA cable?
My current HD+ suffered from artefacts when using dvi.
I'm thinking of upgrading to the VP30.
Noticed DVDO offers several upgrade packages, but the stiff $250 extra fee for int'l customers is not very helpful for upgraders...

Currently using the HD+ through VGA to my Plasma in native resolution 852x480, ditched dvi as vga showed a better image with less artefacts.
Don't think I will use hd soon as its penetration in Holland is very very slow.

DVD player and set top box both connected via comp on 480i.

If I add the deinterlace board, can I expect an image improvement if I upgrade to the VP30?
My DVD is a Marantz DV-9600 (does have hdmi but contact is often lost as it heats up), while a Linn Unidisk SC has been ordered s/h which has no hdmi.

Will the VP30 with the ABT card be as good as the VP50 for 480i deinterlacing?
I know that the VP50 also does 1080i deinterlacing but I don't need that now, so if that is the only advantage with the VP50 I could get a VP30 and wait for the next generation.

Sorry if this has been asked already, but I could not find it.

Will the VP30 with the ABT card be as good as the VP50 for 480i deinterlacing?
I know that the VP50 also does 1080i deinterlacing but I don't need that now, so if that is the only advantage with the VP50 I could get a VP30 and wait for the next generation.

Sorry if this has been asked already, but I could not find it.

Yes, the 480i (and PAL 576i) deinterlacing will be the same from the VP30 w/ ABT102 card as from the VP50, but the VP50's deinterlacer can be upgraded with fixes if and when they surface. But if you buy a VP30 with a new ABT102 card now, that card is most likely updated with the latest fixes (but once you get it, it can't be upated any further).
The VP50 does have a few other things over the VP30 though, but I guess it's up to you to decide if they are worth the price difference in your setup and with your use.

Thanks! This is exactly the tradeoff I was trying to get a handle on!

That is the choice I made too. 1080i looks so dang good, I couldn't see 800 bucks. I got the VP30 and will wait for the next version.

Tonight I gave up after watching the SA8300HD DVR unit(s) reboot 3-4 times within an hour. I was switching between the two units, they both were recording on both tuners. There is definately something amiss between the DVDO scaler and the SA8300HD with regard to HDMI connectivity.

I changed the cabling to component video with digital coaxial out, disconnected the HDMI cables from the back of the DVR's and added Digital coaxial audio. The configuration is now two DVR's feeding component video and digital coaxial audio to a KDS component switcher and then to a DVDO VPxx, component input. The following was observed.

1) The picture is a little softer
2) The resoultion indicators on the SA8300HD now stay solidly lit. The DVR's are set to put out all resolutuions. When using HDMI they would often flash on and off and change. I suspect this was indicating HDMI sync problems.
3) Audio and video go through the scaler taking advantage of lip sync processing
4) No audio Dropouts.
5) No Video dropouts or lockups
6) No Black L shaped masks.
7) On a change of input Dvr0 to DVR1 or DVR1 to DVR0, The change is instantaneous. No 2-3 second delay waiting for HDMI sync.

I will leave it this way for a while. I can change it in 1 minute by merely reinserting the HDMI cables and setting some parameters on the Theater control system.

I did prefer the slightly crisper Digital image as opposed to the softer component source

Barry,

I have been using the SA8300HD and the VP30 for almost one year and do not have most of the interface issues that you are having.

Other than the 2-3 second delay for HDMI handshaking, I do not have any of the problems you listed. My DVR has never locked up.

The one thing I do get is audio dropouts, which are not related to the VP30, as I route my Digital Coax directly to my AVR.

I think the most frustrating part is that the interface issues are inconsistent between the same electronics. You have a VP30 and SA8300HD as well as I do, but we both have different issues.

The interesting thing about my audio dropouts is that it only happens on DVR recorded shows. I cannot recall it ever happening during a live broadcast.

I believe there is a problem with the VPxx and 8300 with regard to resync of an HDMI handshake if for some reason there is a need to do so. My theory is that during this resync for some reason the audio is lost or stopped, and it is the DVR that is doing the stopping not the VPxx.

The reason I say this is that I ran for about 2 weeks with the audio directly to the audio processor and not through the VPxx and still had the problem. I also believe it has something to do with glitches in the signal reception, or the signal playback of pre recorded stuff (in my area at least).

As I think I mentioned the little indicators of resolution were always flashing on my DVRs and very rarely stable. I was told that this is an indication that the system is dealing with HDMI issues. I am not sure of this as there is no decent documentation on the SA8300HD and the cable co techs do not have a clue.

I had a quick power reset today - the VP30 was reset and since then the discrete remote control codes are working again.... nice.... may have to reset it weekly... and the VP was on when it happened.. not sure if matters or not....

Hey man! I don't think that you are allowed to post "for sale" ads here! And that too for a completely different product.
There is a different place in the forum to post such ads. If one of the moderators see this, you are likely to get a rap in the knuckles!

Now for my question.

I'm considering the differences between the VP20 and VP30 (both with the ABT cards). If I'm planning to go with SDI (rather go for 480i via hdmi), need only 3 hdmi inputs and do not need to send analog video in or out via RGHBV, then what advantages does the VP30 offer for the extra $300?
Are the processing abilities of the VP30 and VP20 for standard resolutions sent in via hdmi any different?

The VP20 won't do SDI

The VP20 won't do SDI
I know that! :) My mistake, I should've been clearer in my question (I see how it could have easily been read the way you did):

I currently have the iScan HD with SDI. Output is via DVI to display at 720p. MOST viewing is for DVD.

I am considering two options:

a) VP30 and ABT102 with SDI card and SDI modded dvd player
b) VP20 and ABT102 with no SDI but 480i fed in via HDMI from Oppo player

So here are my questions:

1. Will there be any differences in quality?

2. What do I lose by going with the VP20 if I don't need the extra HDMI input and the analog RGHBV inputs and outputs?

3. Also, most of my viewing is for DVD movies. Will I see much improvement over my current setup of the HD with the SDI card? Is the de-interlacing done by the Precision SDI card or is it by the SIL504?

Thanks!

You should be able to get the best picture with SDI plus you don't have to deal with HDCP. Since you already have the SDI modded player it's probably worth it to get the VP30. If you didn't have the SDI player already, I would think the HDMi route would be best. Because I don't think the cost of an SDI player and the extra cost of the VP30 would be worth the incremental improvement. But since your player already has the SDI mod, and you already have the SDI module, a few hundred extra should be worth it. But If you also don't have an HD DVD player it might also be better just to put your money toward that since no SD DVD player, SDI or otherwise can match the picture of an HD DVD. I can't stand watching SD DVDs anymore if I can avoid it. HD DVDs are just too good.

I know that! :) My mistake, I should've been clearer in my question (I see how it could have easily been read the way you did):


Hey - I have post much more obvious questions than that. :o

I know that! :) My mistake, I should've been clearer in my question (I see how it could have easily been read the way you did):

I currently have the iScan HD with SDI. Output is via DVI to display at 720p. MOST viewing is for DVD.

I am considering two options:

a) VP30 and ABT102 with SDI card and SDI modded dvd player
b) VP20 and ABT102 with no SDI but 480i fed in via HDMI from Oppo player

So here are my questions:

1. Will there be any differences in quality?

2. What do I lose by going with the VP20 if I don't need the extra HDMI input and the analog RGHBV inputs and outputs?

3. Also, most of my viewing is for DVD movies. Will I see much improvement over my current setup of the HD with the SDI card? Is the de-interlacing done by the Precision SDI card or is it by the SIL504?

Thanks!

We had a shootout yesterday using the VP30 and a 971 oppo via SDI versus the 970 oppo via HDMI, both ouputting 480i to the VP30 ....

the SDI was a little cleaner (less noise) and the images looked more 3D.

the 970 via HDMI was still a very good picture and much better then the 971 via DVI, which was not as good as SDI or the 970 via HDMI.

SDI (480i) - 10/10
970 via HDMI (480i) - 9/10
971 via DVI (480p) - 7/10

We had a shootout yesterday using the VP30 and a 971 oppo via SDI versus the 970 oppo via HDMI, both ouputting 480i to the VP30 ....

the SDI was a little cleaner (less noise) and the images looked more 3D.

the 970 via HDMI was still a very good picture and much better then the 971 via DVI, which was not as good as SDI or the 970 via HDMI.

SDI (480i) - 10/10
970 via HDMI (480i) - 9/10
971 via DVI (480p) - 7/10

This is great and indeed very interesting! Thanks! This resolves one important question I had and eliminates the VP20 alternative.

Let me move on to the next set of confusions that still plague me! These relate to the ABT102 card. Did your VP30 have the ABT card installed? I wonder how that would change the equation.

The question I have not been able to find an answer to is whether the deinterlacing from the DVD player is done by the SDI card, the SIL504 or the ABT102 (if installed). I'd always assumed that it was done by the SIL504 in the HD and VP30 (unless the ABT102 was installed in which case that took over). However, when I look at the DVDO SDI page (http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_acc_sdi.php), I see that they say

The PrecisionSDI™ Video Input Card takes this pure digital signal, deinterlaces and scales it (all in the digital domain), converting to any output resolution between 480p and 1080p, allowing you to view all your video source at the optimum output resolution.

Ok, so then does this mean that the deinterlacing of DVD material is done by the SDI card? If that is the case, then should the following combinations be the same for film based DVD material:

iScan HD/HD+ with SDI
VP30 with SDI
VP30 with SDI and ABT102
VP50 with SDI


?? :confused: :confused:

If I were to upgrade from my HD/SDI combo to the VP30/ABT/SDI combo, the incremental price difference is $1448 ($2198 for the combo of VP30 and ABT less the $750 trade in rebate for the HD). Let's keep the dollar issue out for a moment since that is usually very very subjective.

The real question I'm struggling with is whether I would see any significant improvement by this switch. My viewing is almost entirely DVD movies. (I realize that there could be differences with the VP30/ABT combo for other source material).

If not, there may be value to just waiting for the next generation of 1080p projectors, HD-DVD with HD-SDI, etc.

the VP30 had the ABT102 card installed - firmware 1.1 all working fine.

SDI outputs interlaced, 480i/576i - so the deinterlacing is done by the VP30/abt102. You can re-use your SDI card from the HD+ into the VP30/50.

if you are watching mostly DVD movies in the US (region 1), the SLi504 does a very good job of it .... it may be better to invest the $1,500 in a better source (HD DVD player)???

How do I connect a VP30 to my plasma through a VGA cable?
My current HD+ suffered from artefacts when using dvi.
I'm thinking of upgrading to the VP30.
Noticed DVDO offers several upgrade packages, but the stiff $250 extra fee for int'l customers is not very helpful for upgraders...

If you use the BNC (RGBHV) outputs you are able to use VGA to your plasma.
I use that output to a tiny LCD monitor and it works great. I replaced my clumsy CRT with the LCD. Do not use it much though. My 720PJ do most of the work.
It is easy to switch between them using display profiles.

Although if you are using HDCP sources (with HDCP bit set) the analog output is disabled.

Hope it helped.

M.

Josh has not commented anything on VP30 or VP50 threads about THE audio problems. I wonder if DVDO is still working on fixing it with firmware upgrade. I hope it is not HW related issue.

ps. Does Gary work for DVDO? :confused: He seems to be very convinced that problem is anywhere but the VPx0.

Josh has not commented anything on VP30 or VP50 threads about THE audio problems. I wonder if DVDO is still working on fixing it with firmware upgrade. I hope it is not HW related issue.

ps. Does Gary work for DVDO? :confused: He seems to be very convinced that problem is anywhere but the VPx0.

Josh is apparently on holiday at the moment. DVDO's general thing is not to talk about any 'feature' until it is ready for production so I'm gathering that the lack of talk about this issue is related to the lack of a working 'feature' to fix it yet. ;)

However it is still DVDO's number one 'audio' priority at the moment, as the official line goes so it's not forgotten about.

Gary has the honour of owning a system that doesn't feature this issue (and one that does I think) so yes for him it's not a DVDO issue, I'm sure the free VP50 beta test units have no influence on his comments at all! :D

But seriously Gary I am joking mate, it is fun to think back to the old days in this thread when you'd be complaining every page or two about the lack of gamma/greyscale features thou. It was tempting at the time to say that request wasn't important cos it only effected a few people and is really a fault of your display not having those features. ;)

Has anyone narrowed it down to specific hardware devices causing this? I've seen a lot DVRs mentioned, Motorola in particular. Are people seeing this with hdmi dvd players too?

I've got an HR20 coming, I hope I don't start to see audio dropouts after connecting it.

FWIW - I spoke to DVDO last week about something else, and in closing asked about the audio issues. They said they were working on it and hopefully they would have an update that will fix it coming soon.

My auto-switching doesn't seem to be working right either. Considering that and the audio problems, I am thinking about returning my VP30 and getting a Denon 4306 receiver.
Warren.

Has anyone narrowed it down to specific hardware devices causing this? I've seen a lot DVRs mentioned, Motorola in particular. Are people seeing this with hdmi dvd players too?

I've got an HR20 coming, I hope I don't start to see audio dropouts after connecting it.

Dropouts happen also using Toslink connection, it is not only HDMI related. I have Denon 1920 and Topfield 5100T connected to Marantz 8500 that suffer from dropouts. I did not have dropouts previously with HD+.

Has anyone narrowed it down to specific hardware devices causing this? I've seen a lot DVRs mentioned, Motorola in particular. Are people seeing this with hdmi dvd players too?

I've got an HR20 coming, I hope I don't start to see audio dropouts after connecting it.
There were no problems with my Sony 975 HDMi DVD player and a Denon 3806.

FWIW - I spoke to DVDO last week about something else, and in closing asked about the audio issues. They said they were working on it and hopefully they would have an update that will fix it coming soon.

:D :D :D :D dave - that's almost word for word what they told me a year ago (or whenever I got my first VP30 - I got one from the first preorder batch, plus a replacement after my first one started scrambling memories.)

I am beginning to think that DVDO tech has a button they push, triggering that recording, whenever someone asks about the audio dropouts.

Aaronwt - you don't count any more than I do. :p You don't have dropouts, while I always have. We need a new pair to come in, cancel each other out. :)

In my system, all of my audio dropout problems had to do with HDMI and the two SA8300HD units. I finally gave up and moved the two offending unbits to component. Guess what, I still get audio dropouts, but they are almost always accompanied by video blocking or pixelation. I am convinced that these audio dropouts are from trqnsmission based.

However I no longer have the DVR's rebooting, or stopping a recording session only to retsart it 2 minutes later. No black L shaped masks, and almost no other problems. I can see a slight picture degradation (actually a softness) but only if I do A/B comparisons. Some day HDMI will be correct across all manufactureers, but as God answered when asked by Hillary Clinton if her Health plan would ever see the light of day... "Yes, but not in my lifetime".

The only thing feeding HDMI into my VPxx is my PC which controls the theater and it feeds video only and no audio. I use it to display the DVD library and select the DVD to play (Twin sony DVD changers running component, 480i).

It (The audio dropout issue) is nasty as it is very depenedent on the source device feeding into the VPxx and whether they properly handle the HDMI repeater function.

It (The audio dropout issue) is nasty as it is very depenedent on the source device feeding into the VPxx and whether they properly handle the HDMI repeater function.

True; but what often gets overlooked or obscured by DVDO cheerleaders (for want of a better term) is the fact that many of those experiencing dropouts have no HDMI sources whatsoever, and are in fact connecting audio only via toslink or coax. Likewise, while sat, cable, and ota sources can be of questionable content, inducing their own dropouts, the undeniable fact is that there are multiple users who experience dropouts when viewing dvds, with the video connected via component, and the audio hooked by coax or toslink.

Give me a free unit to beta test, and by golly, it will be the best thing money can buy, and I'll even keep swapping pre/pros until I find one that works. ;) Who wouldn't - save me 2 or 3k, and I can afford to keep trying audio units until I discover the magic one that doesn't hiccup.

My only HDMI source was my LG4200a; I use it both as an HD source and SD source to my Runco; since the LGs one drawback is that it doesn't output 480i via DVI, it is now connected via component. So there is nothing/nada connected into or out of my VP50 (or my previous VP30) via HDMI. I've even hidden my HDMI cords in another room, so the VP won't get scared. ;) Still audio dropouts.

One can use any excuse one wants to explain; but HDMI is not the problem in all cases.

btw - I've proposed a receiver upgrade program for DVDO to initiate - it there is indeed something that consistently works with the danged thing, give us a trade-in/upgrade path to it. :; So far, haven't heard back from Josh.

I am not saying it (audio dropout) does not happen with component, I just do not recall hearing it. When I use my Photobridge for the input source it puts out a fairly static 720p picture showing the music library and what is playing with very small movement on the screen. I have NEVER heard an audio dropout with that device. I am sure of that. Perhaps it is because the video is so "Static". With recard to DVD's I do not recall hearing an audio dropout (same configuration) but I could be wrong. In both cases audio is Coaxial running through the VP and into the PREPRO.

As an observation, Lip Sync processing should not be ocurring when I am using the Photobridge, but should be occurring when I use the DVD players.

After waiting for many months for significant news from DVDO regarding the (HDMI-less) audio-dropout problem I get the impression DVDO is not able (or willing) to solve this.

Why do I get this impression? When HDMI is out of the signal path, the most troublesome component (as many people see it) is out of the way, yet still drop-oups with some configurations. In this config the audio-path is very much like the stable and proven HD(+).

Would't DVDO be able to solve a software issue as significant as this one, generating so much fuss on this forum? If DVDO has a dedication to an issue, they normally fix it reasonably soon. So, unless there has been a outflow of all of their engineers (Dale didnt work on the audio path, I believe :) ) one could fear it's not a software issue.

On the other hand, if it's a hardware issue in random VP's DVDO could only solve it by a call-back of the offending VP's. A very expensive operation. It would be very interesting to know it the problem is related to some VP's or to all VP's. I believe there is one posting where an exchange of the machine helped?

If it's a hardware issue with all machines (like a design flaw) then we, the owners, are really in bad luck. Should I simply send my VP back for "repair", get another one and retest? Still a lot of speculation, there are other longlasting pending issues, but with such a basic problem for me the fun with DVDO is definitely over.

Too bad, I liked my HD+ very much. In the mean time we also know that the promises for VP50 are not kept ("no audio issues"). Did anyone with dropout's ever switched VP's to check if the problem is related to indivudual machines?

For now I'm willing to take ten 1$ bets on this:

* The audio-drop out problem is hardware related and can only be solved with a hardware repair

I'm one that has audio dropouts with component (had it on my VP30 and now on my VP50 - on both DVDs and Sat/DISH - NEVER on my iSCAN HD). If they give me a free beta unit (are these really free??? - wow), I will never mention it again and help them test... ;) I personally think this is a bigger issue for them then most folks think. Otherwise, they would have fixed it by now. They have some very smart folks working there. Over 25 years in the IT field has taught me a few things, but I hope I'm wrong and it gets fixed.... SJ

I have dropouts on component too. I have a few days yet to return mine. I think I will.
Warren.

After waiting for many months for significant news from DVDO regarding the (HDMI-less) audio-dropout problem I get the impression DVDO is not able (or willing) to solve this.

Why do I get this impression? When HDMI is out of the signal path, the most troublesome component (as many people see it) is out of the way, yet still drop-oups with some configurations. In this config the audio-path is very much like the stable and proven HD(+).

Would't DVDO be able to solve a software issue as significant as this one, generating so much fuss on this forum? If DVDO has a dedication to an issue, they normally fix it reasonably soon. So, unless there has been a outflow of all of their engineers (Dave didnt work on the audio path, I believe :) ) one could fear it's not a software issue.

On the other hand, if it's a hardware issue in random VP's DVDO could only solve it by a call-back of the offending VP's. A very expensive operation. It would be very interesting to know it the problem is related to some VP's or to all VP's. I believe there is one posting where an exchange of the machine helped?

If it's a hardware issue with all machines (like a design flaw) then we, the owners, are really in bad luck. Should I simply send my VP back for "repair", get another one and retest? Still a lot of speculation, there are other longlasting pending issues, but with such a basic problem for me the fun with DVDO is definitely over.

Too bad, I liked my HD+ very much. In the mean time we also know that the promises for VP50 are not kept ("no audio issues"). Did anyone with dropout's ever switched VP's to check if the problem is related to indivudual machines?

For now I'm willing to take ten 1$ bets on this:

* The audio-drop out problem is hardware related and can only be solved with a hardware repair
Couldn't agree more with your assessment Slonk. It's been my feeling all along that we have an audio hardware problem. Now, with the VP50, we also seem to have video hardware problems as listed in the VP50 thread. I now, very luckily judging by the postings on problems people are having with the VP50, seem to have a perfect VP50. No audio drop-outs or video pixelation nor any lock-ups so far after 2 weeks running. It's singing just perfectly like my HD+ did. :) But I have to confine or restrict my comments here to an all non-HDMI setup - DVI yes, HDMI/HDCP no. Not that that really matters that much - I had plenty of the abovementioned gremlins with my VP30. Just fortunate I guess that I didn't have to contend with any HDCP handshaking problems as well.

Looking at the PCB inside the VP50, it's a completely new layout from the VP30. I had hoped that DVDO would have used a different chipset for the audio chain, but alas, no it seems. I think that ever since the VP30 got released, DVDO have spent their entire efforts with the audio problem in trying to write software that attempts to overcome the hardware deficiencies of either the audio chipset(s) or their implementation of it with the associated "glue" logic they used with it.

I too, have lost a lot of faith in DVDO. To let a non-HDMI related audio problem persist and remain unsolved for such a long time is pretty bad in my books. If it had have been a software issue alone, I think it would have been solved a long time ago. I think it's high time DVDO came clean and told us exactly what the problem really is - i.e, is a hardware fix the only really satisfactory solution?

I had an HD that had audio drop outs about a year ago. That box doesn't even have HDMI. DVDO gave me an HD+ in exchange and I never had a problem again. Got my VP50 a few weeks ago and so far so good. We'll see if the DTV HR20 starts causing them when it arrives next week.

fwiw, I have had 2 VP30s; both had audio dropouts. Wasn't worth the 30 bucks to ship the one back, just to get another that didn't work either. One was from first run, 2nd came much later - early summer. Got one of the first VP50s - it also behaves poorly - has the same dropouts. If you go to the VP50 thread, you'll find that Dale (now that he has left DVDO :() has postulated that it is indeed a hardware problem. He has also proposed that if you went thru enough machines, you would find a good one. Not a good thought. Sort of like with Grado phono cartridges, where they go thru the whole batch, and the best 10% are the higher dollar models. Or, for that matter, back when Intel would make a batch of Pentium chips, and then assign clock speed after testing each one, and finding out how good each chip was.

In other words, DVDO can quite possibly test each box, and may even know which ones work, and which ones don't. Nasty thought. Hey Josh - look me in the eye, and tell me I'm totally wrong.

But why did I not have problems with my VP30 nor my VP50? I must have been very lucky if it is strictly a hardware problem with the VPxx.

snip....In other words, DVDO can quite possibly test each box, and may even know which ones work, and which ones don't. Nasty thought. Hey Josh - look me in the eye, and tell me I'm totally wrong.
Well, possibly not that brazen/deliberate is my guess, but the testing routines they use in the factory are possibly not good enough to pick out all the problem areas. They are no doubt getting better at selecting/designing those that show up most of the problems.

Had another thought about my earlier post today - just a few up, and thought for a moment that there may have been an opportunity for DVDO to get it right with the VP50. But, I guess that the PCB layout and whole design was well underway even before the VP30 was first released, so that whatever was designed for the VP30 was ported/used again straight across to the VP50 as far as the audio chain was concerned.

They may have had a further opportunity when the VP50 boards came back from the assembly line and fitted some mods to it, but perhaps they still had no real solution at that time (being kind to them here). Or, they were/are still hopefull that it can all be fixed up with a software solution.

But why did I not have problems with my VP30 nor my VP50? I must have been very lucky if it is strictly a hardware problem with the VPxx.
My guess:
You probably have one of the setups designers used for testing when they toughed that everything is working perfectly -> ok to sell. :(

Like at least 2 or 3 others I can remember in this thread I've had two VP30s' from different batches (serial numbers over a 1000 apart) and both behaved the same (non-HDMI) audio dropout wise.

I'm willing to accept there's a compatibility issue here with my Amp but seeing as no other consumer device has this issue with my Amp (I don't think I own two devices from the same manufacturer so a wide selection ;) ) that I've tried the main gremlin looks to be the VP30.

I'm concurring a hardware issue too but I'm guessing they didn't change the hardware in the VP50 because at least they know what the issues are with this one and maybe able to cover most of them up with software eventually.

Alas the audio delay was like my number 2 or 3 reason for picking DVDO over the competition so if it comes down to this being unfixable then I'll certainly be looking elsewhere. Even with generous upgrade options (I was suckered into the VP50 by the *promises* of no audio issues and discount :) ) I won't be considering the VP70 if I'm still not able to watch a film without a dropout! :(

By now they must have been able to reproduce this in the lab, they must have been able to discover what the chip is doing when it occurs but they may not be able to control that action as it's an internal error. I'm guessing they've at least looked at newer revisions of the chip to see if it's a design issue but who knows as it's all a little quiet on the topic from DVDO, oh apart from "it's our number one (audio) priority" and "a fix is due in a couple of weeks". Which apparently have been quoted to several over the last several months. :o

I'm willing to have some sort of repeater box between the VPx0 and Amp if it'll re-buffer and fix the issue, just not willing to spend £1000's trying to find one that works! :rolleyes:

If you go to the VP50 thread, you'll find that Dale (now that he has left DVDO :() has postulated that it is indeed a hardware problem. He has also proposed that if you went thru enough machines, you would find a good one.
That's not quite what I said (or at least what I meant :o ). My speculation, and it is just speculation as I wasn't personally working on the audio problem, was that there may be a timing or design problem in one of the FPGAs which could be causing this. If so, it's possible that such a problem may only show up on certain FPGAs - e.g., those which come from a fast or slow process corner of the chip yield. If this is true, that's actually good news since the FPGAs can be rev'ed with a firmware update. Of course DVDO has to actually issue such a firmware updated, but it would not require any hard modification to the VPxx circuit board.

In other words, DVDO can quite possibly test each box, and may even know which ones work, and which ones don't. Nasty thought
I don't believe that's the case. One of the biggest problems they've had in fixing this has been replicating the problem reliably. It's not like this is a case of being able to run a short, fixed test sequence through a box and seeing it fail. The failures are intermittent with long periods (from a testing standpoint, at least) between them. Now, that might change once the root cause of the current problem is found (and remember that a lot of other audio problems have been fixed), but until that root cause is found you just don't know.

- Dale Adams

I also have drop outs with out hdmi in the audio chain so add me to the list of long time dvdo users who feel very let down by the company and yes, the vp-30 will be my last dvdo purchase if the audio drop outs are never fixed (I still remember the promises of firmware upgrades to the HD that never materialized).

Dave

Sorry Dale, wasn't trying to put words into your mouth. Just lack the skills to pull a quote from one thread and put it into this one. Not my intention to mislead. :o

I need some advice. I've just bought a BenQ 8720 and a Pioneer DV-696. It looks good, but I want a better image, which I know the 8720 can deliver. I'm now considering buying either the new Denon 2930 or the DVDO VP-30.

The VP-30 is going to cost a bit more, but if it does a better job with SD DVD's, I have no problem paying extra. If I buy the VP-30, I will keep the DV-696 and send 576i over HDMI. I'm also going to connect a Xbox 360 (component) to the VP-30.

The Denon 2930 is supposed to do a great job with SD DVD's, and it's probably better than the DV-696 on everything else.

I live in Europe so HD DVD is not an option at this moment.

So, is the VP-30 combined a cheap DVD player like the DV-696 a better choice over a great upscaling DVD player like the Denon 2930?

I have no experience with video processors, so I hope someone can give me good advice.

To me it is a no-brainer - the VP-30 is the choice, if you are willing to spend the extra money. It will most likely provide better scaling than the 2930, though I have not compared, but the VP30 with the ABT102 card does an excellent job, plus it provides a significant amount of flexibility in processing other sources (Satellite, cable, etc.) as well as acting as a A/V hub.

I don't experience the audio issues that others do, so this is not an issue for me. I am quite happy with the VP-30. I wish that some of the convience features were more functional (discrete codes operation, 1080i pass through), but I am sure these will be addressed through FW updates.

The performance of the unit is excellent for SD sources.

Thanks for your reply, HTSteve.

The thing is that I'm getting the VP-30 for a great price, so I only have to spend about 230USD more compared to the 2930.

I won't be connecting any audio cables to the VP-30, so that's not a problem.

I'm leaning more and more towards the VP-30...

The other aspect is that with the Benq PE8700 it is fairly easy to gain 1:1 pixel lock between the PJ and the VP30. I assume the same will be true on the 8720. I hope it is also true on the Benq W10000 which I am looking at.

Bookhouseboy, if you are going for the VP30 make sure you pick a DVD-player that can give 480i/576i over DVI or HDMI. the best solution would be a DVD player with SDI out.

Edit: a SDI mod to your Pio would probably be the best.

Gard:
Is SDI the only way to go, or would HDMI be fine?

I don't know if I want to buy a SDI kit. And it's not that easy to get a hold on in Europe.

I hope someone compares the Denon 2930 against a extern video processor. Since I'm only using a DVD player and a Xbox 360 with my projector, maybe the Denon would be a wiser choice...

Bookhouseboy: Go with HDMI with 480i output and you'll be impressed. If you need that last tweek you can always get the SDI kit.

DVDO has a combo with the OPPO 480i hdmi player. It is an awesome deal, like only 50 bucks more to add the OPPO to the VP30. It is an outstanding player when combined with the VP30, probably unsurpassed by anything.
Warren.

Thanks for the help guys, but I've decided to postpone the purchase of a video processor. Mainly because I would only connect a DVD player and a Xbox360 to the VP-30, and also because of the price. In the future, with more video sources like HD-DVD, PS3 and so forth, a video processor would definitely be needed.

I'm now going to find a great DVD player that can do a good job upscaling SD DVD's. It won't touch the VP-30, I know, but as long as I haven't seen the VP-30 in action, it won't be missed. Ignorance is bliss.

I guess I'll head over to the DVD forum. Sorry! :o

Book - what about the VP20/ABT 102 combo? Only asking cuz I just watched the Zartura dvd thru my 50, but you would see basically the same thing using a 20, as long as you didn't need transcoding to a crt projector. And frankly, while I'll bitch about the lack of an audio fix until the end of time (or when its fixed - whichever comes first,) at the same time, I must admit that I just finished viewing the most amazing display I've ever seen on an 11' wide screen. And I'll be the first to admit, if it looks good that wide, think what it would look like on a more reasonably sized screen or display. :)

I sat and watched a DVD tonight (The Sentinal). There were 5 (minor) audio disturbances. The configuration is Component video with digital coaxial going through the VP50 to the audio processor.

My bigger problem is that I can't seem to get anything but 2 channel stereo out of the DVR's. I know I was getting 5.1 when it was broadcast. I think it is a DVR (SA8300HD) Issue and will play with it tomorrow. My audio processor says it is a AC-3 signal (dolby digital) but claims only two channels of audio.

How do I do a hard reset on the VP30 ?
How does it differ to a return to Factory Settings?

Thanks

How do I do a hard reset on the VP30 ?
How does it differ to a return to Factory Settings?

Thanks
1. Pull out the power plug.
2. Press AND hold the top 2 buttons (Menu and Exit)
3. Plug VP back in AND continue to hold in the buttons.
4. When the DVDO sign-on logo appears on the display, you can let go of the buttons.

As I understand it, this procedure differs from a factory reset in that it reboots the "OS" in the system AND loads the factory defaults at the same time as opposed to merely copying the factory defaults into the appropriate memory locations when you do a "Return to Factory Settings. Loosing power, e.g by simply unplugging the unit does NOT reload the factory defaults.

1. Pull out the power plug.
2. Press AND hold the top 2 buttons (Menu and Exit)
3. Plug VP back in AND continue to hold in the buttons.
4. When the DVDO sign-on logo appears on the display, you can let go of the buttons.

As I understand it, this procedure differs from a factory reset in that it reboots the "OS" in the system AND loads the factory defaults at the same time as opposed to merely copying the factory defaults into the appropriate memory locations when you do a "Return to Factory Settings. Loosing power, e.g by simply unplugging the unit does NOT reload the factory defaults.

if I remmber correctly you also loose all the settings don't you?

if I remember correctly you also loose all the settings don't you?As far as I remember :) , you only loose your settings if you do either:
1. A hard reset as described earlier
2. You select and execute the Factory Default settings in the Setup menu.

Simply loosing power, i.e just power cycling without pressing the 2 buttons, does NOT cause you to loose your settings. I've had to do this many a time on the VP30 to get out of a lock-up. :( . Luckily my VP50 has so far behaved like my HD+ did - nothing's gone wrong and everything works as it should since I received it some 3 weeks ago. :) :) .

Alas the audio delay was like my number 2 or 3 reason for picking DVDO over the competition so if it [the audio bug, Slonk] comes down to this being unfixable then I'll certainly be looking elsewhere.
Yes, but when will the audio-bug be deemed "unfixable" and by whom? After 6 months, after 10 years? For me a reasonable amount of time has been passed and I cancelled the attractive AVS upgrade offer for a VP50. I cannot take DVDO seriously any more after the failed promise the VP50 would fix the audio problems. They must have been aware this was not the case. Suppose the problem is indeed hardware related and DVDO is aware of it, would DVDO be in the position to ever come forward with this information?

Yes, but when will the audio-bug be deemed "unfixable" and by whom? After 6 months, after 10 years? For me a reasonable amount of time has been passed and I cancelled the attractive AVS upgrade offer for a VP50. I cannot take DVDO seriously any more after the failed promise the VP50 would fix the audio problems. They must have been aware this was not the case. Suppose the problem is indeed hardware related and DVDO is aware of it, would DVDO be in the position to ever come forward with this information?

Interesting but I also skipped on the VP50. I was on the fence as to any real benefit it could give me for HD sources on a 42 inch plasma and their failure to fix major problems like the audio bug and remote control codes after 9 months convinced me that this was a company that didnt deserve any more of my money. Now that a few people have the VP50 and still no audio bug or remote control fix for the VPx0 I feel justified in not taking up the "upgrade" offer. Even if they do fix these bugs I think the damage, in my eyes anyway, has been done and DVDO would have to do something pretty miraculous to get me to buy another one of their products
.

[QUOTE=escon]1. Pull out the power plug.
2. Press AND hold the top 2 buttons (Menu and Exit)
3. Plug VP back in AND continue to hold in the buttons.
4. When the DVDO sign-on logo appears on the display, you can let go of the buttons.


Thanks, Phil! :)
Barend

I have 3 component (red,green and blue wires) sources, so I was hoping to use the RGB BNC inputs for the third one, but I am not getting a picture.
It says in the manual "RGB (Component)", so what am I doing wrong?
Thanks

I have 3 component (red,green and blue wires) sources, so I was hoping to use the RGB BNC inputs for the third one, but I am not getting a picture.
It says in the manual "RGB (Component)", so what am I doing wrong?
Thanks

Which format are you sending to the component (BNC) connection? It won't accept 480i unfortunately.

Which format are you sending to the component (BNC) connection? It won't accept 480i unfortunately.As far as I'm aware, you also need horizontal and vertical sync lines into the H and V terminals.

I do believe escon is correct. There are several variants of RGBVH, but all of the require Horizontal and Vertical sync to operate. Some versions have it on the "Green" line, some combine the two sync pulses on one line. I do believe that the VP30 requires a 5 wire system Red, Green, Blue, Horizontal Sync and Vertical sync as input. Component input is only three wires with (I think) sync signals on green).

If your problem is that you have more than 2 component sources (I am running 6) I suggest you look at a high quality component switch. I use the Key Digital Systems KDS MSW4x1 which is a 4x1 5 channel switch where each channel is identical and has the bandwidth to handle HD. I use three channels for the component video and one for Coaxial digital audio leaving one unused. I have two of them, and they can even be cascaded. They can be operated via RS232 as I do, via IR, or manually from the front panel. If you have Toslink Audio only from a source (as is the case with the Sony PS2) then you need a Toslink to coaxial converter for each such source (RAM electronics has those).

Thanks guys, again!
Well, I solved the problem by feeding the third input to my Linn Unidisk SC, which has a basic preamp built in.
I'm not entirely happy with this extra switching step though...
Barend

You can use component into the RGBHV sockets without H&V, so sync on green probably, I've been doing this for a while.

But only for 480p/576p/720p/1080i (and some other PC resultions, but no 480i or 576i)

You can use component into the RGBHV sockets without H&V, so sync on green probably, I've been doing this for a while.

But only for 480p/576p/720p/1080i (and some other PC resultions, but no 480i or 576i)Hm.... very interesting.. sorry post of zero value I know. Must add that info into my "personalised" manual. Maybe Josh of DVDO could add this and other user discovered features/capabilities into a future manual and/or update the on-line pdf manual.

You can use component into the RGBHV sockets without H&V, so sync on green probably, I've been doing this for a while.

But only for 480p/576p/720p/1080i (and some other PC resultions, but no 480i or 576i)

Phil - this feature is described on Page 6 of the VP30 manual. Am I missing something?

Phil - this feature is described on Page 6 of the VP30 manual. Am I missing something?Hello Josh and welcome back!. I don't have my VP30 manual any more, but I'll now have a look at my VP50 manual - I did have a quick scan read of it all some weeks ago - now for the fine detail. ;)

Edit: This is getting interesting. On page 15 of the VP50 manual, the RGBHV input isn't even listed as a selectable input. On the connection daiagram on page 14, the RGBHV connection is shown as ONLY a 5 way connection scheme, i.e the ability to use it as a Component input, using just RG and B inputs (i.e. without connecting the H and V inputs) is not shown.

But, reading further, you are right, on page 8 of the manual it does list the modes the RGBHV input can be used for.... RGBHV/Component. Completely missed that. :eek:

As my dad used to say:
Every man has the will to learn and the wit to know, but the key to knowledge is the open book.

-Anyone from Europe using a USB to serial adapter that's working?
I'm selling my desktop PC for a new laptop, but the laptop doesn't have a serial port (possibly because it's a modern piece of equipment?).

So - since the USB to Serial adapter HAS to have a specific chipset in order to work with the VP30, I was wondering what brand you've got working?

The brands I have to choose from (besides Belkin which doesn't work according to DVDO) are: SDM (Speed Dragon Multimedia), CC, and Digitus.

Not going to import an FTDI-adapter from DVDO, so do I have a chance with any of these? None of them are listed with what type of chipset they use, so it's pretty much impossible to know if they'll work, and I'd rather not buy a bunch of adapters and go the trial-and-error route.

And:

Will the program that Barry Gordon has made work better than Tera Term Pro?
Will perhaps his program even work regardless of adapter chipset?

Thanks.

John, check if your laptop has docking/port replicator option. They often come with serial ports.

I found Barry's app much easier to use than Tera Term Pro but i was using an old laptop with a serial port so can't comment on the USB thing

My program does not know there is an adapter in the loop. I have been very successful with serial to usb adapters in the edgeport family. They used to be made by ionetworks but I think diginet or someone bought them out. A quick check on eBay showed quite a few available with bids in the $20 for a 4 port unit and $40 for an 8 port unit

Hello

Does the VP30 do any lipsync correction to the analog audio input?

Does the VP30 do any lipsync correction to the analog audio input?
AFAIK it does; analog audio is digitized and then passes the same digital train as all other audio, including a delay based on the currently active video input. (I believe a poster even reported it has the same audio dropout bug :()

Can somebody post a picture from the inside of the VP50?

Can somebody post a picture from the inside of the VP50?

I believe that was done by some early adopters of the VP50.

There are in the VP50 Thread..

I believe that was done by some early adopters of the VP50.

There are in the VP50 Thread..

Thanks mate, will look there ;)

Has the 1080P passthrough been released yet?

IF anyone has been doing Beta testing, what are the details on the audio processing?

Has the 1080P passthrough been released yet?

IF anyone has been doing Beta testing, what are the details on the audio processing?
I think beta testers are under an NDA agreement .. so they can't say anything, until DVDO says it first....

I think beta testers are under an NDA agreement .. so they can't say anything, until DVDO says it first....

That to me makes sense for new features since DVDO dont want to give away the game to its competitors but bug fixes????. Oh forgot ssshhhhh, non VPx0 owners dont know its got bugs in it.....

BTW. Anyone else starting to get really ticked off with how long this bugfix is taking??? Gone from a joke to just bad taste now...

That to me makes sense for new features since DVDO dont want to give away the game to its competitors but bug fixes????. Oh forgot ssshhhhh, non VPx0 owners dont know its got bugs in it.....

BTW. Anyone else starting to get really ticked off with how long this bugfix is taking??? Gone from a joke to just bad taste now...

I think this is more and more looking like a hardware issue....... how are they going to fix that if some of the VP30's will be 1 year old soon? would it still be under warranty? How about the VP50?

the audio drop outs I get on the VP30/50 don't bother me much to be honest as I don't get many at all .... however I have a flashing white line on the VP50 .... that annoys me....

I have never seen the flashing line on the VP50. I get some very minor audio drops on the VP50 and I know for a fact that DVDO is working on resolving the audio issue, and I believe it is for all of the VP Line. It has been a long time, but some problems are really tough.

big_marcelo is right,

if (and I'm not admiting whether or not that is the case) there is progress, beta testers are prohibited from divulging details about beta status until ABT gives the all clear.

macelo,

since the VP30 & VP50 are designed based on FPGAs, hardware changes are possible (and have already been implemented) using firmware updates.

About the flashing line, is it possible it's got something to do with your output timing? Did you try standard timing (1080i)? what sort of display are you using the unit with?

big_marcelo is right,

if (and I'm not admiting whether or not that is the case) there is progress, beta testers are prohibited from divulging details about beta status until ABT gives the all clear.

macelo,

since the VP30 & VP50 are designed based on FPGAs, hardware changes are possible (and have already been implemented) using firmware updates.

About the flashing line, is it possible it's got something to do with your output timing? Did you try standard timing (1080i)? what sort of display are you using the unit with?
Hi Ofer,

I'm using the NEC XR5 50" - I get the white line on all resolutions, however due to overscanning, I only see it 'clearly' on 1:1 (1365 x 768) ... I'm overscanning with the panel to get rid of it .... .I'm using all the default DVDO settings/resolutions- the same as I used to use on the VP30 ......

on 1:1 I'm using the orbiter 2 on the NEC, which makes the image larger and I can't see the white line.... otherwise with the orbiter off or orbiter 1 (which makes the images smaller) the white line flashes on the top left of my display......

So, with orbiter on, I think my images are not as good as they could be... however its an improvement on the VP30 in PQ nevertheless.... and certainly a big improvement (for me) on deinterlacing based on my vp30/ABT102 even for SD.

I was just wondering can I passthrough any signal with VP30.

Can I passthrough also 480i and 576i?

I was just wondering can I passthrough any signal with VP30.

Can I passthrough also 480i and 576i?

At the moment you can't passthrough any signal, you can set the output to the same as the input but only as far as what is normally supported as a VP30 output (which doesn't include SD 480i/576i).

There was a fix added that allowed 1080i in 1080i out without messing the signal up but other then that I've not seen anything of the originally advertised passthrough feature. It was again advertised for the VP50 but hasn't arrived yet (although has been confirmed it's in beta testing with some customers).

My understanding of it is that it will be limited, i.e. won't allow all signals from all inputs to be passed through to all outputs but details aren't available. Also no idea if it's something that DVDO plan to roll back to the VP30. :confused:

Hate black bands so I created several input aspect settings and saved them under IAR 1 through 5.
Found the discrete hex codes for these on the DVDO site, but merely clicking the button on my Pronto remote won't work properly.
I first have to use the preset button as on the original remote, and getting the menu all over the screen) before it (sometimes) works.
I can painstakingly go into the menu and select an IAR, but that's not what I want...
Anyone?

Also, I feel the remote is a bit weak in the knees, I really have to bend over the table for it to work (not too awful of course, but I forget and start clicking away like a madman and thén remember).
As I remember I never had this issue on the HD+

Hate black bands so I created several input aspect settings and saved them under IAR 1 through 5.
Found the discrete hex codes for these on the DVDO site, but merely clicking the button on my Pronto remote won't work properly.
I first have to use the preset button as on the original remote, and getting the menu all over the screen) before it (sometimes) works.
I can painstakingly go into the menu and select an IAR, but that's not what I want...
Anyone?

The discrete IR commands are known to stop working periodically. You might want to try removing and reattaching wall power from the unit. I had the discrete aspect presets working on my VP30.

Also, I feel the remote is a bit weak in the knees, I really have to bend over the table for it to work (not too awful of course, but I forget and start clicking away like a madman and thén remember).
As I remember I never had this issue on the HD+

The early units had an overly opaque IR lens. Did you get the replacement? It makes a big difference. Info is on the DVDO website.

- Collin

The discrete IR commands are known to stop working periodically. You might want to try removing and reattaching wall power from the unit. I had the discrete aspect presets working on my VP30.

The early units had an overly opaque IR lens. Did you get the replacement? It makes a big difference. Info is on the DVDO website.

- Collin

Thanks, Collinp:
Will give it another try with the IAR's. it's worsened by the fact I have to point the remote exactly to the VP30.
Where did you find the note on the lens?
Looked all over on their site, nope.
Sent them an e mail, hopefully they will send me this plastic lens...

Yeah I think most people here have fitted the replacement IR lens on their VP30s, it really improves the responsiveness to the remote. DVDO mailed mine out (to the UK I might add) within a couple of days.

Yeah I think most people here have fitted the replacement IR lens on their VP30s, it really improves the responsiveness to the remote. DVDO mailed mine out (to the UK I might add) within a couple of days.

even with replacing the lens, the response is not fantastic ... nothing beats a 'pronto' like remote blasting in all directions.... never go back to 'factory' remotes after using my pronto ....

even with replacing the lens, the response is not fantastic ... nothing beats a 'pronto' like remote blasting in all directions.... never go back to 'factory' remotes after using my pronto ....

Same here, only I have a Logitech Harmony 895 remote. With the original VP30 remote, even with the new lens on the VP30 I would have to point the remote quite directly at the sensor, but the Harmony I can point in the opposite direction (or any direction) of the VP30 and still it works.

even with replacing the lens, the response is not fantastic ... nothing beats a 'pronto' like remote blasting in all directions.... never go back to 'factory' remotes after using my pronto ....

My Pronto does hardly any better than the original remote, so I guess I can hope for improvement when I fit the new lens (DVDO replied they would send me one).

To Barry Gordon (or anyone using his firmware updating software):

It says on your page that the program "has the ability to save and restore settings".
Is this now working reliably? I guess I should write my settings down anyway just in case, but does it usually work? And by work I mean - using your program, I don't have to reset my settings in the VP30 after a firmware update?

Thanks (and thank you for the software).


Oh - and to DVDO:

Any news on when we might expect a new firmware version? Updating the firmware has been enough hassle (at least using Tera Term) that I'd rather wait for a new firmware version if it's just around the corner, than load the 1.10 now and the 1.11 in a week or two. Thanks.

What exactly do most want from a firmware update?

1) A fix for the audio drop-outs
2) Optional HDMI passthrough
3) ??

Thanks, Collinp:
Will give it another try with the IAR's. it's worsened by the fact I have to point the remote exactly to the VP30.
Where did you find the note on the lens?
Looked all over on their site, nope.
Sent them an e mail, hopefully they will send me this plastic lens...

I thought it used to be up there on the product support page. Perhaps they took it down as the latest ones don't have the issue.

- Collin

John P et al;

The DVDO utility software does not yet save/restore all of the settings. It requires a firmware change to do so. The problem is that some of the settings, using what is available to retrieve information, can only be retrieved when a specific input signal is providing a specific resolution, and scan rate. I decided if I can not do it correctly I would wait until I can.

If you save the settings, you can look at the file produced to see if it is at least saving what you want. The logic is table driven from the ini file and you can play with that if you want. Modifying the ini file section that drives the save is not hard if you understand how the VPxx works in its RS232 command sense (It is in their manuals). As my father used to tell me - "Every man has the will to know and the wit to learn, but the key to knowledge is the open book". No offense meant.

DVDO has indicated that they will do a firmware change to provide the capability of saving and restoring all of the settings, after all they are stored someplace. There are over 1000 of them to my understanding. One of the issues is that the capability work across a firmware upgrade. This implies that either the address of the settings need to be loccked down, or a map needs to be provided as to what the addresses are for each setting so that if the settings are saved under firmware revision A, they can be restored under firmware revision B.

When DVDO does the change and provides the basic capability I will upgrade my utility package to properly save and restore the settings. My plan is to have the intermediate file in english text so that it can be edited to make different versions for testing. I think DVDO would also like such a capability.

I think we all agree that the priority of this is low as compared to some other issues that need firmare upgrades to remedy.

The latest version of the Utility is dated 9/24/06 and is on my web site (www.the-gordons.net). It is for the VP30 and VP50 and has been tested with both.

Slightly off topic, I obviously do not use IR to drive the VPxx, but rather RS232. In my HT a key decider on choosing a piece of equipment is whether that equipment can be controlled via RS232, AND that the manufacturer provides the protocol information. The only gear still on IR are the Sony DVD Megachangers and the SA8300HD DVR's. Hopefully when a HD DVD changer is available it will: (1) Play either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD discs (2) have full RS232 control.

My IR system is very "tight". By that I mean all IR sensors on equipment needing IR are fed via an IR emitter covered with black tape to block all ambient light. The IR patterns are produced by a dedicated PC that controls the room. All macros are handled by the PC which recieves the "Human Interface" signal (IR) through one of 4 IR receivers in the room from an iPronto remote. You can hold the iPronto any way you want within reason (do not point it at the back of the couch), so it appears as if it is using RF, but with less delay.

My Pronto does hardly any better than the original remote, so I guess I can hope for improvement when I fit the new lens (DVDO replied they would send me one).
the original lens were extremely 'solid' and wouldn't let much through .... you should be fine with a harmony/pronto and the new lens..... I did my lens upgrade when I did the ABT102 card upgrade... pretty quick and easy

Hi I'm looking to pick up a vp30 my question is this. I have a 50 maxent plasma 50x3
over hdmi it only takes a 1080i 0r a 720 p not the native 1366X768. So I obviously want the vp30 to handle all processing. Does the vp30 output on rgb since that is the only hook up on my t.v. that will take the native resolution or will I have to go hdmi to dvi to vga. Thanks in advance.

Hi I'm looking to pick up a vp30 my question is this. I have a 50 maxent plasma 50x3
over hdmi it only takes a 1080i 0r a 720 p not the native 1366X768. So I obviously want the vp30 to handle all processing. Does the vp30 output on rgb since that is the only hook up on my t.v. that will take the native resolution or will I have to go hdmi to dvi to vga. Thanks in advance.

Yes it does, however if any of your source devices are connected to the VP30 via HDMI and use HDCP then for legal reasons the VP30 must disable the analogue output.

You can get around this if you can find one of the "naughty boxes"TM that allow conversion of DVI->VGA and ignore the HDCP licensing rules. ;)

Can VP30 scale 480i/576i (no HDCP) to 1680x1050 and output it from HDMI?

Still can't get the discrete IAR hex codes for my VP30 to work.
I copied them from the DVDO website, set zoom/pan differently for 4 presets and saved them, but even with lengthened duration they don't work on my Pronto TSU7500
Turned the power off and on, nope.
The set presets ARE active as I found when pressing Input Aspect Ratio on the remote and working my way through the menu towards 1...4.
Could a hard reset or a return to the factory settings help?

Also, the replacement lens did not help any- using the original remote beyond 2.5m nothing goes...of course the Pronto is much better but it is still a strange thing!
My previous HD+ was much better in this respect!
Seems to me it's rather the transmitter diode than the receiver (afaik apart from -maybe- faulty circuitry inside the VP30 most ir receiver diodes are the same sensitivity wise.
Could try to replace the remote diode for a more powerful one, but mostly this makes little sense because the amplication transistor will still be biased for the smaller current.

Barend: I was using the original remote routinely at 15 feet without a problem. I've since switched to a wireless remote. I've been waiting for the discrete codes to work before I even bother trying. :(
Have you tried new batteries?

Can VP30 scale 480i/576i (no HDCP) to 1680x1050 and output it from HDMI?

Don't see why not... so long as your display can accept that signal.

Still can't get the discrete IAR hex codes for my VP30 to work.
I copied them from the DVDO website, set zoom/pan differently for 4 presets and saved them, but even with lengthened duration they don't work on my Pronto TSU7500
Turned the power off and on, nope.
The set presets ARE active as I found when pressing Input Aspect Ratio on the remote and working my way through the menu towards 1...4.
Could a hard reset or a return to the factory settings help?

Also, the replacement lens did not help any- using the original remote beyond 2.5m nothing goes...of course the Pronto is much better but it is still a strange thing!
My previous HD+ was much better in this respect!
Seems to me it's rather the transmitter diode than the receiver (afaik apart from -maybe- faulty circuitry inside the VP30 most ir receiver diodes are the same sensitivity wise.
Could try to replace the remote diode for a more powerful one, but mostly this makes little sense because the amplication transistor will still be biased for the smaller current.

I could never get the hex codes to work for my VP30 (URC MX3000 remote). I gave up. SJ

I could never get the hex codes to work for my VP30 (URC MX3000 remote). I gave up. SJ

for some reason, the discrete codes only work for a few hours after plugging & unplugging the vp30/50 ..... its a known bug....