Is it the middle of October yet? :)

According to Josh, the middle of October is from Oct. 2nd to Oct. 30th.
so we are definitely in the middle of October....

It would be awesome if someone could narrow this down just a bit :-)

I keep hearing all this good stuff about the HD+ and this waiting is getting
harder and harder to do...

No kidding - just bought a stack of SB disks at the BB blowout; have been NOT watching them, just so I can be totally blown away by the combination of SB dvds and the VP30. ;)

I have an HD+ and am buying a Vantage HD. Do you all think that I'd be better off selling the HD+ right now or trading it in for the VP30 and selling that?

...I understand the HDMI HDCP audio issue.

The DVDO VP30 will ONLY output an audio signal coming through an HDMI connection back to the HDMI output if the signal is copy protected.

So, if I have a receiver with HDMI input and a projector with an HDMI input, I will have to route the VP30 HDMI output to the receiver (to get the audio portion), then send the receivers HDMI output to the projector.

If I don't have a receiver with HDMI input, I can send the signal to the receivers DVI input (with a HDMI to DVI adapter) and watch silent films.

Is this correct?

I need another round of devil's advocacy, harsh reality, and you all being my muses. ;)

The following is not a slight against the VP30, but if anything, it's a "slight" against myself. You'll see what I mean:



As you know, I have the Sony KD-34XBR960 Direct View Tube. I realize there's certain limits on a set like this, even though it's a reference monitor.

I know that there are people out there that have TV's like mine that still buy video processors and enjoy some degree of benefit.

The XBR960 upconverts any non HD signal to either 540p or 960i. It does a pretty good job, all things considered.

I'm trying to get a grasp on basically this. The XBR960 vs. the VP30. ;)

On paper at least, I would expect a dedicated device like a VP30 to be superior in every regard, but there's no way to know "How much?"

Obviously, there's customization and switching and all that other good stuff that I'm definitely going to enjoy having as well.


I'm going to be getting satellite soon, with HD, so it will be connected into the VP30, as will any game systems and the Onkyo DV-SP1000, which I realize is probably a close toss up vs. the VP30.

So basically, I'm just trying to figure out the XBR960 vs. the VP30.

All input appreciated. :)

I need another round of devil's advocacy, harsh reality, and you all being my muses. ;)

The following is not a slight against the VP30, but if anything, it's a "slight" against myself. You'll see what I mean:



As you know, I have the Sony KD-34XBR960 Direct View Tube. I realize there's certain limits on a set like this, even though it's a reference monitor.

I know that there are people out there that have TV's like mine that still buy video processors and enjoy some degree of benefit.

The XBR960 upconverts any non HD signal to either 540p or 960i. It does a pretty good job, all things considered.

I'm trying to get a grasp on basically this. The XBR960 vs. the VP30. ;)

On paper at least, I would expect a dedicated device like a VP30 to be superior in every regard, but there's no way to know "How much?"

Obviously, there's customization and switching and all that other good stuff that I'm definitely going to enjoy having as well.


I'm going to be getting satellite soon, with HD, so it will be connected into the VP30, as will any game systems and the Onkyo DV-SP1000, which I realize is probably a close toss up vs. the VP30.

So basically, I'm just trying to figure out the XBR960 vs. the VP30.

All input appreciated. :)


Your TV is a good one. But you really have to ask yourself what your main priority is, i.e. is the switching a really big deal to you, or do you really want to see dramatic improvement in PQ?

If you are mostly interested in increased PQ, I would think that the benefits that you will see will not be that great on a screen that size. You are already feeding it a very high quality signal from your Onkyo for DVD playback. HD from satellite will look great without a scaler too. Your biggest benefit may be from SD television sources.

Is there anything about your current PQ that bothers you that you think the VP30 will help resolve?

Do you have any plans to go with a bigger set in the next year or so?

Just a few questions to ask yourself.

The DVDO VP30 will ONLY output an audio signal coming through an HDMI connection back to the HDMI output if the signal is copy protected.

Correct.

So, if I have a receiver with HDMI input and a projector with an HDMI input, I will have to route the VP30 HDMI output to the receiver (to get the audio portion), then send the receivers HDMI output to the projector.

If I don't have a receiver with HDMI input, I can send the signal to the receivers DVI input (with a HDMI to DVI adapter) and watch silent films.

You don't have to switch to DVI. All you have to do is use separate cables from your DVD player to the VP30 for video (HDMI) and audio (Toslink or coax). Don't use the audio portion of the HDMI feed.

DVD player (video signal) -> HDMI to VP30 -> HDMI to projector.
DVD player (audio signal) -> Toslink/coax to VP30 -> Toslink/coax to receiver.

You don't have to switch to DVI. All you have to do is use separate cables from your DVD player to the VP30 for video (HDMI) and audio (Toslink or coax). Don't use the audio portion of the HDMI feed.

Understood. However, if I have lip sync issues and a receiver WITHOUT an HDMI input, I will have no recourse but suffer with the problem.

Your TV is a good one. But you really have to ask yourself what your main priority is, i.e. is the switching a really big deal to you,

Eventually, I will need it, especially in lieu of the new game consoles.


or do you really want to see dramatic improvement in PQ?

I know that "dramatic improvement" is probably out of the question for where I'm at, realisitically.


If you are mostly interested in increased PQ, I would think that the benefits that you will see will not be that great on a screen that size.

Very likely.

You are already feeding it a very high quality signal from your Onkyo for DVD playback.

Yes. I know that I really can't squeeze too much more juice out of that equation.


HD from satellite will look great without a scaler too. Your biggest benefit may be from SD television sources.

Again, all true.


Is there anything about your current PQ that bothers you that you think the VP30 will help resolve?

That's the real wildcard. A lot of my PQ issues might very well be resolved outright when I get rid of this wretched cable service I have and go to satellite in the next week here.

On the other hand, I guess if we really want to get specific, it'd be an interesting A/B test to see what happens with SD material with the TV doing the chores vs. the VP30 doing the chores.



Do you have any plans to go with a bigger set in the next year or so?

NO! ;)

I'm done for a while! My next display will be whatever ends up being the true successor to the CRT tube in every respect possible. Either that, or the day the XBR960 kicks the bucket on me. Whichever one comes first. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Exception: If I win the lottery anytime soon or I find out that some unknown rich uncle died somewhere and leaves me a grand fortune, then all bets are off. :p

I have preordered VP30 and very much looking forward to getting it (soon?).

I will use analogue RGBHV output to a 1366x768 plasma display.

With previous iScans I have used "pass through" for my HTPC, which is set to 1368x768@60Hz (two pixels overscan).

I am concerned because I've just read the DVDO website that says input RGBHV signals via analogue or HDMI that are not VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA@60Hz will be "not accepted" rather than "passed through".

This means either I have to no longer route HTPC via iScan (which is awful), or reduce it's resolution to XGA (1024x768) or SXGA (1280x1024) rather than run at 1:1 pixel match with my plasma's native resolution (which is terrible).

This leaves me between a rock and a hard place. :(

Can this be fixed with a software patch?

StooMonster

PS: love the new logo, and will order silver facia as soon as it is available.

Josh,

Sorry if I missed this earlier but is 1080p24sf a possibility for the VP30. Just sold the iScan HD and am on the list for the VP30 but I've decided to leave the world of CRT's. Word is the new Sony "Ruby" may accept 1080p24sf. So does DVDO plan on adding 1080p24sf to the list of available resolutions?

Josh,

Sorry if I missed this earlier but is 1080p24sf a possibility for the VP30. Just sold the iScan HD and am on the list for the VP30 but I've decided to leave the world of CRT's. Word is the new Sony "Ruby" may accept 1080p24sf. So does DVDO plan on adding 1080p24sf to the list of available resolutions?

I believe it can on the vga output...

Understood. However, if I have lip sync issues and a receiver WITHOUT an HDMI input, I will have no recourse but suffer with the problem.

As I understand it, the audio delay functions of the VP30 will still work if you connect your DVD player to it by HDMI for video in addition to Toslink/coax for audio, and then run the Toslink/coax out to your receiver.

The only problem is the number of digital audio inputs. I already have 4 HDMI/DVI devices and an svideo and 2 component input devices. All with digital audio outputs. Will it be possible to assign the same digital audio input to multiple video sources? That way I can use my digital audio switcher to input the audio to the VP30. Otherwise I have to run the digital audio switcher straight into my receiver.

Hey guys, I just find out that Panasonic in their infinite wisdom disabled color/tint controls when native rate (and other rates) are fed via DVI (and presumably HDMI) into PHD8UK plasmas.

Does VP30 provide color/tint control for the material it processes?

Please say yes....

It would seem that the Calibre people, through Silicon Optix, have been able to overcome the HDMI/HDCP audio out over Coax and Opto digital outputs obstacle.

It is therefore now possible to output the full bandwidth, including 5.1 audio stream, over the Coax and Opto outputs even though the audio is coming in solely through the HDMI connector and is encrypted with HDCP. The only "added" signal to the digital stream fed to these 2 digital outputs is a copy protection flag, which according to Calibre, is ignored by audio output devices.

This is what they said:

The amplifier/audio processor should ignore the copy protect flag, it is a common flag to be set and is a standard part of the AES3 audio specification. The flag is used by software/hardware with recording capability but should have no effect on audio output devices.

It looks like some sanity has finally prevailed on this issue. I fervently hope that DVDO can now also apply the same technique to the VP30. If not, I will have no choice but to go to the Vantage HD camp. I've run out of audio inputs so I can't get around the problem any other way. I'm looking forward to a reply from Josh-of-DVDO.

I note that the PC resolutions the VP30 accepts are all 4:3 ones, which is odd because I guess most displays connected to VP30 will be 16:9 or 16:10 ratio.

Can support for Wide-VESA resolutions be added to VP30?

WXGA's 1366x768 or 1280x768 would be my number one choice, but also "W" resolutions like WSXGA or WUXGA.

Even if this cannot be added to digital input because of limitations with HDMI Receiver chips, can it please be added to the analogue inputs?

StooMonster (posting using his WQXGA display)

Hey guys, I just find out that Panasonic in their infinite wisdom disabled color/tint controls when native rate (and other rates) are fed via DVI (and presumably HDMI) into PHD8UK plasmas.

Does VP30 provide color/tint control for the material it processes?

Color control on all inputs, yes. Tint control is only available for S-video or composite video sources. It's disabled for component or digital signals.

It would seem that the Calibre people, through Silicon Optix, have been able to overcome the HDMI/HDCP audio out over Coax and Opto digital outputs obstacle.

It is therefore now possible to output the full bandwidth, including 5.1 audio stream, over the Coax and Opto outputs even though the audio is coming in solely through the HDMI connector and is encrypted with HDCP. The only "added" signal to the digital stream fed to these 2 digital outputs is a copy protection flag, which according to Calibre, is ignored by audio output devices.

This is what they said:

The amplifier/audio processor should ignore the copy protect flag, it is a common flag to be set and is a standard part of the AES3 audio specification. The flag is used by software/hardware with recording capability but should have no effect on audio output devices.

It looks like some sanity has finally prevailed on this issue. I fervently hope that DVDO can now also apply the same technique to the VP30. If not, I will have no choice but to go to the Vantage HD camp. I've run out of audio inputs so I can't get around the problem any other way. I'm looking forward to a reply from Josh-of-DVDO.

not sure if any processor manufacturer in the USA can do this since I believe it is mandated by the HDMI/HDCP spec

would be nice though...

not sure if any processor manufacturer in the USA can do this since I believe it is mandated by the HDMI/HDCP spec

would be nice though...

But don't all manufacturers have to sign the same contract before they can use HDMI/HDCP parts, and that contract would tell them what the specs have to be, no matter what country they operate out of?

But don't all manufacturers have to sign the same contract before they can use HDMI/HDCP parts, and that contract would tell them what the specs have to be, no matter what country they operate out of?

The HDCP standard simply calls for the audio stream to be encrypted/protected. This it is by setting the copy protect flag in the S/PDIF data stream. QED.

However, I think we are missing the point here. WE are the consumers and it is WE that have the power to ultimately make or break a policy such as this one. If we think a policy is bad, we should tell them so - and that's what we are doing here. If they don't listen to us, we can simply boycott the product(s). For example, in this case, I will choose a Vantage-HD instead of a DVDO VP30 given the current position with DVDO not being able to output full HDCP audio over any other than HDMI outputs.

Many of us are saying here that having HDCP applied to the audio stream of an HDCP encrypted data stream and not being able to output it (but granted with some protection against copying such as implemented by Calibre) via other digital ports is not acceptable to us. We are suggesting that they re-think their policy and make the product/standard useable/workable to us. I don't think this policy was carefully thought through.

No standard is cast in stone!! We can change it if we have the will. This is how people power works. I'm trying hard, but it needs more of us to start complaining loudly and voting with our feet if we don't get a change in policy.

Phil.

The HDCP standard simply calls for the audio stream to be encrypted/protected. This it is by setting the copy protect flag in the S/PDIF data stream. QED.

However, I think we are missing the point here. WE are the consumers and it is WE that will ultimately make or break a policy such as this one. If we think a policy is bad, we tell them so - and that's what we are doing here. If they don't listen to us, we can simply boycott the product(s). For example, in this case, I will choose a Vantage-HD instead of a DVDO VP30.

Many of us are saying here that having HDCP applied to the audio stream of an HDCP encrypted data stream and not being able to output it (but granted with some protection against copying) via other digital ports is not acceptable to us. We are suggesting that they re-think their policy and make the product/standard useable/workable to us. No standard is cast in stone!! This is how people power works.

I want my VP30 now - with or without the HDCP. There is always the VP40 or
possibly only a new FPGA configuration file if it turns out Vantage gets away with
this...

I want my VP30 now - with or without the HDCP. There is always the VP40 or
possibly only a new FPGA configuration file if it turns out Vantage gets away with
this...

It'd be fantastic without HDCP. All my Christmases would come at once :)

Ok Guys lets see if I have this correct?

The dvdo vp 30 will accept video and audio via hdmi. If the signal for eg. dvd player sends video and audio together via hdmi. Then there will be no audio transmitted via coax or optical dig out.

If you could transmit just video via hdmi and feed coax digital into the vp30 You still wont get audio via the coax output from the vp30 because it is sensing the use of hdmi. :confused:

Does this then mean by the use of hdmi we would render all of our preamp processors or receivers that do not have hdmi useless. :eek:

If you could transmit just video via hdmi and feed coax digital into the vp30 You still wont get audio via the coax output from the vp30 because it is sensing the use of hdmi. :confused:

:

The above is absolutely incorrect as far as I know. As long as you feed
the vp30 optical or coax along with your video over hdmi you should be
fine...

The above is absolutely incorrect as far as I know. As long as you feed
the vp30 optical or coax along with your video over hdmi you should be
fine...

But, if sometime in the not so distant future you want to connect your Blue-Ray DVD player, you will ONLY be able to get audio out over the HDMI connector AND with HDCP enabled on both audio and video. There will be NO audio output coming from any other connector. You MAY get a reduced quality 48KHz data stream from a digital connector perhaps, but it won't be 5.1 or higher.

Then, you WILL need a new receiver/amp to get the full 5.1+ audio stream out. As it stands now, you will ONLY get a reduced 48KHz stereo data stream out of the digital outputs of the VP30. You will only get the full bottle out of the HDMI output. That's why we need a change in policy!!

Then there is also the issue of a shortage of audio inputs. So, even if we continue to be able to have audio out from our HD sources via a separate digital connection, we still need to route that through the VP30 for lip-sync correction/audio switching.

We only have 4 digital audio inputs on the VP30 apart from those (4) that are embedded in the HDMI connectors/data stream. I am running out of digital connections now with my HD+ (which also has a total of 4 digital inputs).

I rest my case.

Phil.

. As it stands now, you will ONLY get a reduced 48KHz stereo data stream out of the digital outputs of the VP30. You will only get the full bottle out of the HDMI output. That's why we need a change in policy!!


Phil.

Oh my god!

So lets see now.

I buy a new dvd player that will do 480i/576i over hdmi and the vp30 run separate video and audio from the dvd player to the vp30 and result is no DD/DTS 5.1 ???
Surely this cant be the case :mad: :mad:

Why do things have to be so complicated!

Come on DVDO people please clear this mess up!
Ben

Come on DVDO people please clear this mess up!
Ben

I concur. I'm looking at a DVD player that can shut down the audio over HDMI and send it via the optical output. If this audio goes to the VP30 and gets sent back out over the HDMI output, I can't use this product.

Oh my god!

So lets see now.

I buy a new dvd player that will do 480i/576i over hdmi and the vp30 run separate video and audio from the dvd player to the vp30 and result is no DD/DTS 5.1 ???
Surely this cant be the case :mad: :mad:

Why do things have to be so complicated!

Come on DVDO people please clear this mess up!
Ben

No, not if you have a separate digital audio output from your DVD SD player. You can use one of the digital audio inputs on the VP30 to connect to your player and feed the full digital sound out to your receiver/amp - no worries here.

But, if you have many other sources that need digital audio inputs as well, you may run out of digital inputs. I am using all my 4 inputs already, so any HDMI source I will be connecting on the VP30, will have to have its sound as well as video on the HDMI input - I cannot run a separate digital audio in as I have run out of input connectors

Also, and this is very important, if you are thinking of buying a Blu-Ray HD DVD player in the future, you will not be able to get a full audio digital output from the VP30's audio digital outputs. That's because the new HD sources that have HDMI output connectors will ONLY have HDMI connectors that carry both the picture and the sound - they will no longer carry any other audio output connectors. Some may at best give you a reduced bandwith stereo sound out via either RCA analog connectors or digitally via the usual S/PDIF connectors.

So, when you connect your Blu-Ray DVD player to the VP30, you will only get the full 5.1 sound output out of the HDMI socket on the VP30. The digital outputs from the VP30 will only carry a reduced bandwidth stereo sound output. This is how it stands at the moment on the DVDO VP30. The Calibre Vantage-HD video processor claims to be putting out the full audio out over its digital outputs. I want DVDO to be able to do the same - that's one reason why I'm high lighting and stressing this point so much.

Phil.

Will it be possible to assign the same digital audio input to multiple video sources? This will allow the use of an external digital audio switcher and still have the VP30 create the audio delay based on the processing being performed.

Will it be possible to assign the same digital audio input to multiple video sources? This will allow the use of an external digital audio switcher and still have the VP30 create the audio delay based on the processing being performed.

That's what I was thinking, I wonder if it would work. Seems to me that it should, but you never know with these things.

But unfortunately even if it did, it somewhat mitigates the purpose of the box for some people. For me, I want a solution that will be able to take all my inputs and send them out a single set of outputs. By having to connect external pre-switchers in there, it really just ends up being complicated again, instead of simple and elegant. You could work around some issues with switching multiple boxes with a nice universal remote with macros.

I still want to get the VP30, since it's a lot more resonably priced the other comparible equipment in it's class. As soon as it's released, I look forward to the user reviews so I can see if it's all I hope it is.

Also, and this is very important, if you are thinking of buying a Blue-Ray HD DVD player in the future, you will not be able to get a full audio digital output from the VP30's audio digital outputs. That's because the new HD sources that have HDMI output connectors will ONLY have HDMI connectors that carry both the picture and the sound - they will no longer carry any other audio output connectors. Some may at best give you a reduced bandwith stereo sound out via either RCA analog connectors or digitally via the usual S/PDIF connectors.

Where are you getting this information? Full specs for either format have not even been released yet.

If this were true, it would be the biggest FUBAR in all electronics history, considering that there are almost no surround receivers on the market with HDMI inputs that can decode the audio. Even if there were, the idea of forcing the entire home theater community to buy new A/V receivers would ensure total market failure for the new HD video formats.

I seriously doubt that your information is correct.

However, I think we are missing the point here. WE are the consumers and it is WE that have the power to ultimately make or break a policy such as this one.

That's pretty funny. The consumer having any power? Not in the Digital Millennium, we don't.

Also, and this is very important, if you are thinking of buying a Blue-Ray HD DVD player in the future, you will not be able to get a full audio digital output from the VP30's audio digital outputs. That's because the new HD sources that have HDMI output connectors will ONLY have HDMI connectors that carry both the picture and the sound - they will no longer carry any other audio output connectors. Some may at best give you a reduced bandwith stereo sound out via either RCA analog connectors or digitally via the usual S/PDIF connectors.



this may indeed be a possible senario if the full copy protection schemes of Blu-Ray are adopted

this may indeed be a possible senario if the full copy protection schemes of Blu-Ray are adopted

If it sends mult channel audio out on the HDMI port a simple solution
for now is a 1:2 HDMI switch that supports audio and later offering
dual HDMI outputs on the VP40...

this may indeed be a possible senario if the full copy protection schemes of Blu-Ray are adopted

you know, it is getting to the point that I am actually hoping that BluRay goes the way of Elcaset and Divx. I'm willing to bet that 90% of all this paranoid copy-protection would be a non-issue, if Sony didn't also happen to own Columbia records and studios. As Fredfa pointed out in a post a while back, Sony itself isn't sure if it wants to be a media company or an electronics company. I vote for them to split, then Sony can come up with an improved HD dvd that won't require me to stand on my head and hold my breath, every time I want to watch a disk.

you know, it is getting to the point that I am actually hoping that BluRay goes the way of Elcaset and Divx. . . . . . I vote for them to split, then Sony can come up with an improved HD dvd that won't require me to stand on my head and hold my breath, every time I want to watch a disk.
Actually, you're supposed to drink beer (or other carbonated beverage of your choice) through a straw at the same time.

I agree with you, I hope HD-DVD and BluRay turn out to be huge failures - unfortunately for DVDO and the other equipment manufacturers have put a lot of R&D $$'s into this "stuff".

I seem to be in the minority and don't own any copied DVD's but I do own a CRT FP PJ.

My 2 cents

If it sends mult channel audio out on the HDMI port a simple solution
for now is a 1:2 HDMI switch that supports audio and later offering
dual HDMI outputs on the VP40...

If I understand you correctly Tony, you would still need a HDMI receiver/amp to be able to get at the multi channel audio stream. Just having an HDMI "splitter" so to speak, would not let you get at the audio stream.

The crazy thing is that at the moment, you would have to pass the HDMI output through your display in order for the software in your display to determine whether you would get simple stereo or multi channel back out to your amp, i.e it is the display that will determine what kind of audio you will get. Most displays these days are only 2 channel!!

To quote from a very informed source:

Yes, my personal opinion is that the HDCP and HDMI specifications are both fraught with problems and the result of teams of lawyers who have probably been paid huge sums to devise them. They are unworkable in real-life applications.

The problem is that the film studios are insisting that HD digital devices adopt them, this covers HD/Blu-ray DVD players and ultimately HD TV broadcasts with copyright material although that is yet to happen. It is all a dreadful mess.

My technical opinion is that HDMI is best avoided, but the unfortunate practicality is that it cannot. I can only hope that at some point soon there will be sufficient consumer pressure to make HDMI and Digital-CP (who are an Intel subsidiary and administer HDCP) will see sense. DVI was sensible as a standard, even DVI with HDCP was not unreasonable, but the HDMI and HDCP combination with audio is just stupid in terms of its restrictions and requirements.

End of quote.

I think we really do have a terrible mess here.

Phil.

If I understand you correctly Tony, you would still need a HDMI receiver/amp to be able to get at the multi channel audio stream. Just having an HDMI "splitter" so to speak, would not let you get at the audio stream.

The crazy thing is that at the moment, you would have to pass the HDMI output through your display in order for the software in your display to determine whether you would get simple stereo or multi channel back out to your amp, i.e it is the display that will determine what kind of audio you will get. Most displays these days are only 2 channel!!

To quote from a very informed source:

Yes, my personal opinion is that the HDCP and HDMI specifications are both fraught with problems and the result of teams of lawyers who have probably been paid huge sums to devise them. They are unworkable in real-life applications.

The problem is that the film studios are insisting that HD digital devices adopt them, this covers HD/Blu-ray DVD players and ultimately HD TV broadcasts with copyright material although that is yet to happen. It is all a dreadful mess.

My technical opinion is that HDMI is best avoided, but the unfortunate practicality is that it cannot. I can only hope that at some point soon there will be sufficient consumer pressure to make HDMI and Digital-CP (who are an Intel subsidiary and administer HDCP) will see sense. DVI was sensible as a standard, even DVI with HDCP was not unreasonable, but the HDMI and HDCP combination with audio is just stupid in terms of its restrictions and requirements.

End of quote.

I think we really do have a terrible mess here.

Phil.

Yes. You would still need a HDMI receiver...

And yes it is the receiving end of HDMI that determines the audio sent
from the transmitting side of HDMI - good point. Would have to make
sure the handshaking occurs from the HDMI connected to the receiver...

That's pretty funny. The consumer having any power? Not in the Digital Millennium, we don't.

I absolutely disagree with this statement.

Of course the consumer has all the power, they have the money. Always follow the money, as they say. HD-DVD/Blu-Ray will never take off if the consumer is made to go thru hoops to use it. DVD is good enough that only a small percentage of people will feel a need to upgrade to HD-DVD if it isn't convenient and relatively cheap to do so, unlike the compelling need to upgrade from VHS (or even laserdisc) to DVD. This gives consumers plenty of power.

I absolutely disagree with this statement.

Of course the consumer has all the power, they have the money. Always follow the money, as they say. HD-DVD/Blu-Ray will never take off if the consumer is made to go thru hoops to use it. DVD is good enough that only a small percentage of people will feel a need to upgrade to HD-DVD if it isn't convenient and relatively cheap to do so, unlike the compelling need to upgrade from VHS (or even laserdisc) to DVD. This gives consumers plenty of power.

If all consumers were united and well educated, perhaps. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

If all consumers were united and well educated, perhaps. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

Again I have to disagree.

The power is in the potential, which is there.

And sadly, with the HD formats it's the illiterate public that will greatly contribute to the power of the consumer. Their illiteracy will unite them!

And even setting sloganeering aside, right now consumers are pretty much united against the HD formats, DVD is good enough for the vast majority. If the HD formats are to gain a strong foothold, they have to be made compelling, and that means user friendly and relatively cheap besides having much higher quality. Certainly the potential for much higher quality is there, but even that won't be realized for some time to come after enough consumers have upgraded their equipment, and by then the format could already be marginalized and remain so for many years if the manufacturers and studios don't get their acts together.

But of course, you have to realize that I'm almost always wrong about these things :), though I did predict to friends after seeing 30 seconds of a DVD demo at Dave's Video in LA right after the format's launch that DVD would reign within a few years. The DVD format was just that compelling. HD-DVD is not.

It sounds to me as if the VP30 may have a very limited life cycle once the full specs. of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (if the latter even comes to market) and the HDMI version needed to output said specs. is released.

It probably will work great for current analog-only products and the smattering of basic digital output devices we have right now, and the world of DTS and Dolby Digital over coaxial or optical audio cables. However, once the blue laser products hit the market some time next year the VP30 may be already outdated.

I'm wondering if it would be prudent in some cases to just get something like a Gefen HDMI switcher and do component video switching in the receiver, and wait to see how this shakes out before plunking down another $1,000 or $2,000 (if you don't have a trade-in HD+) on a scaler like the VP30.

Dan

It sounds to me as if the VP30 may have a very limited life cycle once the full specs. of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (if the latter even comes to market) and the HDMI version needed to output said specs. is released.

It probably will work great for current analog-only products and the smattering of basic digital output devices we have right now, and the world of DTS and Dolby Digital over coaxial or optical audio cables. However, once the blue laser products hit the market some time next year the VP30 may be already outdated.

I'm wondering if it would be prudent in some cases to just get something like a Gefen HDMI switcher and do component video switching in the receiver, and wait to see how this shakes out before plunking down another $1,000 or $2,000 (if you don't have a trade-in HD+) on a scaler like the VP30.

Dan

AVS / DVDO pricing on the VP30 isn't much more than many 4:1 HDMI switchers
I have seen and if you consider the trade-in we will get for the VP30 then
you are throwing money away, in my opinion, if you buy a HDMI switcher instead
( assuming of course you end up buying the VP40 ).

It sounds to me as if the VP30 may have a very limited life cycle once the full specs. of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (if the latter even comes to market) and the HDMI version needed to output said specs. is released.

It probably will work great for current analog-only products and the smattering of basic digital output devices we have right now, and the world of DTS and Dolby Digital over coaxial or optical audio cables. However, once the blue laser products hit the market some time next year the VP30 may be already outdated.

I'm wondering if it would be prudent in some cases to just get something like a Gefen HDMI switcher and do component video switching in the receiver, and wait to see how this shakes out before plunking down another $1,000 or $2,000 (if you don't have a trade-in HD+) on a scaler like the VP30.

Dan

Oh, we've got years before this next-gen DVD mess is all sorted out. Assuming that the VP30's life cycle will be "very limited" shows a lot of optimism as to how smooth and quick this transition is going to go. If you're hoping the VP30 will be the last processor you'll buy for a number of years you will likely be disappointed. I would argue, however, that this is true of almost any A/V product you purchase right now. Even these nifty new 1080p sets don't accept HDCP 1080p signals and are therefore not very likely to be fully compatible with these next gen DVD players.

- Collin

That's pretty funny. The consumer having any power? Not in the Digital Millennium, we don't.

Actually we do, as long as we are not lazy enough to just ignore and waste any chances that we DO have to stop something from happening!

So on a somewhat related note... I suggest that you decide to go to the following link, fill out the online form and make your voice heard about the new BS they are trying to sneak through on the broadcast flag issue.

https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?JServSessionIdr012=40a7m4eal1.app6a&cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=129



"Give the Broadcast Flag a TKO

We have the Broadcast Flag on the ropes, but its supporters are flailing back. The Broadcast Flag, a plan to give Hollywood remote control of how you record, copy, transfer, or replay over-the-air digital television, was knocked flat by the courts.

Now the film and TV industries are running to Congress to get the fix in.

The current plan: sneak a few lines of innocuous-sounding law past legislators to give the FCC the sweeping regulatory authority it needs re-instate the Flag. That would restore Hollywood's power to dictate the design of any digital equipment capable of receiving broadcasts - and once again, technology innovators would be forced to beg permission to provide you with the features and functionality for exercising your fair use rights.

The lawyers and lobbyists are moving fast, but you can move faster. Tell your representative you don't want Hollywood to hobble your digital media devices, and knock out the Broadcast Flag for good.

1. Complete the form on the left with your information.
2. Personalize the subject and text of the message on the right with your own words, if you wish.
3. Click the Send Your Message button to send your letter to these decision makers:"

Josh, any news of shipping dates? Looking forwarding to getting VP30!

StooMonster

PS: any thoughts on my posts above?

Josh, any news of shipping dates? Looking forwarding to getting VP30!

StooMonster

PS: any thoughts on my posts above?

It would be great if we could narrow it down a bit from "middle of October."

How about week of the 10th or week of the 17th?

As long as I have it in my hands by the last week of the month I will be very happy!

As long as I have it in my hands by the last week of the month I will be very happy!

That is easy for you to say - you already have the iSCAN HD+...

This will be my fifth scaler in the last 3+ years. I started with the Holo3Dgraph1, then traded that in for Holo3DGraph2 card. Then I sold that and got an iscanHD. Then I upgraded that to the HD+. Now I am trading the HD+ for the VP30.
I'm sure when the VP40, or whatever it's called comes out I will trade the VP30 in for that.

This will be my fifth scaler in the last 3+ years. I started with the Holo3Dgraph1, then traded that in for Holo3DGraph2 card. Then I sold that and got an iscanHD. Then I upgraded that to the HD+. Now I am trading the HD+ for the VP30.
I'm sure when the VP40, or whatever it's called comes out I will trade the VP30 in for that.

I am going to have to. The VP30 meets my needs perfectly for today.
Next year by this time I am going to need something like the VP40...

As to whether we the consuming public have the last say in the success or failure of a technology, I'll point you back to DCCs and mini-disks in the early 90's. In my opinion, they failed because the companies that brought them to market got greedy. They thought that as long as they put the label "digital" on something people would run out and buy it....even if it meant they would have fewer copying options and have to pay 10 times the cost of it's analog rival [the cassett] to get it. I think that's what's happening here. We're being marketed bigtime.....with this "digital" label. Forget about whether it actually sounds or looks better. If they can sell us on the many virtues of digital formatting, they have greater control over the format output, and ultimately the copyright. IMO, it's all about HDCP guys.
Javry

BTW, and not to get too far off topic but the latest I heard was that talks between Toshiba and Sony broke down with irreconcilable differences and that both formats were going to hit the market sometime in calendar year 06. Media companies and equipment manufacturers are lining up behind the one they think will win out....and still others are exploring technology that will work with either format. This news is about a month old. Has anyone heard anything different lately? IMO, this is going to turn into a great big boon-doggle if something doesn't get straightened out quick. My plans are to keep my distance.....and let it shake itself out.
Javry

javry,

This is completely OT, please use a dedicated thread (there are updates).

Back OnT - October 11th. That's close to the middle of the month, depending on the size of your window. I'm getting tired of watching the UPS man drive by each day without leaving me anything. :(

Does the VP30 do non-linear stretch?

The VP30 will do non-linear stretch, but this will not be in the feature set at launch. This is one of the first features that we plan on implementing after launch.

Josh, any news of shipping dates?

It looks like we should start shipping early to mid November. If this date changes, I will be sure to update everyone here. We apologize for the delay and we know that you will be happy when your VP30 arrives.

Josh,

What HDMI standard will the VP30 support when shipped? I assume 1.1 or perhaps 1.2. Will there be a upgrade for the VP30 for HDMI 1.3 and beyond? Will upgrading the HDMI be via a different platform, like the next evolution (or should I be using Intelligent Design, do not mean to offend non-evolution crowd) VP platform, like VP40 (if that will be the nomenclature).

Thanks.

Are the default settings for the HD+ the same as the VP30? I'm getting some more tweaks done to my 1080P DLP set and I was hoping that I would have the VP30 before the tweaks and recalibration. But if it's not shipping until November I'll need to have the calibration done with the HD+. So If I calibrate each component by manually switching each component on the DVI input, will I be able to take those settings from the HD+ and input them into the VP30 and have the picture look pretty much the same?

In order to get an answer to my questions about analogue and digital video pass-through for HTPC, I emailed DVDO directly and got this reply:

Both analog and digital pass-through are supported by the hardware but will not be available features at product launch.

So it looks like there won't be a feature downgrade from previous iScan models, but this option won't be available at launch.

Josh: thanks for informing us of current expected delivery date.

StooMonster

Are the default settings for the HD+ the same as the VP30?

The default settings are the same, but because the HD/HD+ and VP30 use a different scaler, picture controls like brightness, contrast, saturation have a higher granularity. However, the user interface granularity is still the same: -100, +100 (200 steps). Also progressive input signals on Comp1, Comp2 and the RGBHV/Component input might give some differences, because of going through a different video decoder.

I'd like to publicly thank a lot of people in this thread, not the least of whom would be Josh, Dale, Ofer, and pretty much every regular in this thread for helping me out with a billion and one noob questions and devil's advocacy issues in several threads, including this one, plus PM's.

Much appreciated! :)

Hello,


I just ordered a VP30 and was wondering how important is it to get a DVD player that does 480i through HDMI? Will the picture quality greatly improve? instead of component at 480i Maybe this is a question for Josh.

Thanks,

rmlowz

You don't have to have HDMI to get a great picture. A good dvd player with component output @ 480i into a scaler can produce as good a picture. In my setup I have tried Pioneer 59AVi with HDMI out & Marantz DV-12S1 with component out, both at 480i into IScanHD+ scaled to 720p on a 100" screen & I could not tell the difference. Infact the picture was a bit cleaner & sharper from Marantz. Keep in mind that HDMI is not the end all & be all.

You don't have to have HDMI to get a great picture. A good dvd player with component output @ 480i into a scaler can produce as good a picture. In my setup I have tried Pioneer 59AVi with HDMI out & Marantz DV-12S1 with component out, both at 480i into IScanHD+ scaled to 720p on a 100" screen & I could not tell the difference. Infact the picture was a bit cleaner & shaprer from Marantz. Keep in mind that HDMI is not the end all & be all.

Can you tell the difference between component out and hdmi out on the 59AVi?

I have not tried between component & HDMI of Pioneer 59AVi but that would be interesting to try.

I have not tried between component & HDMI of Pioneer 59AVi but that would be interesting to try.

Would you mind doing it and posting results?

i though the marantz 12s1 was the last of there pioneer based clones for the video section?? was not the 9500 there first true all marantz dvd player??

It looks like we should start shipping early to mid November. If this date changes, I will be sure to update everyone here. We apologize for the delay and we know that you will be happy when your VP30 arrives.

I hope it is EARLY November before I have to add the new XBOX360 to my setup. It will be SO much easier with transcoding! Which actually leads to a question..., how much processing will be required to transcode? I'll be feeding my xbox into the VP30 via component and then running HDMI to my projector. Will this interfere with game play? The xbox will be outputing 720p. Thanks. SJ

Since the launch is being postponed a while, is there any chance of getting some of the features that were not going to be available at an October launch?

First week of November is what I heard from a distributor. Right or wrong, only DVDO know.

StooMonster

First week of November is what I heard from a distributor. Right or wrong, only DVDO know.

StooMonster

and chances are, they aren't all that sure ;) - I know that I don't always get a product out when promised. shoot - look at the MP-5. Been waiting for that since the dawn of time. I know there are a few out there, but hardly full production. Can only hope that DVDO will be shipping a finished product, and not a few hand assembled kludges.

Can only hope that DVDO will be shipping a finished product, and not a few hand assembled kludges.
I believe you'll find that the final production hardware was done a while ago, and they probably already have a reasonable amount of stock manufactured, but it's final "bug free" v1.0 software that we're waiting for.

StooMonster

Stoo,

If I guessed you are hardware engineer, would I be wrong?

The magic words are "bug free". For this, I'm happy to wait. :)

I believe you'll find that the final production hardware was done a while ago, and they probably already have a reasonable amount of stock manufactured, but it's final "bug free" v1.0 software that we're waiting for.

StooMonster

Why did you bring that up? :( The words "bug free" and v1.0 software should never occur in the same sentence. I have done production software. Here I was worried about the nuts and bolts aspect of the box, I keep forgetting that much (all?) of what I am buying is a collection of algorithms that may interface correctly in a majority of applications. :o

Crap.

I love my Iscan Pro. But I bought it when it was past mature, approaching senility, as far as product life goes. And I never buy a new car in the first model year. Are you implying that I may have made an expensive mistake here?

Stoo,

If I guessed you are hardware engineer, would I be wrong?
Yes you would be wrong ;) Software and systems is my background; and way back in time video games industry. Was a VC for a few years and got to see lots of businesses, so been involved with hardware/software kinds of things and understand what the key stages of product launch are.

flyingvee: sorry mate, apologies for "bug free" and v1.0 in same sentence. :eek: you are of course absolutely correct.

What you are buying here or with any similar product is software: e.g. check all the scalers using the same off-the-shelf chipsets and components, it's the design and software that differentiates them.

Expensive mistake? No. The other iScan HD products have been nicely supported by DVDO with software updates, adding new features as well as bug fixing. IMHO most bugs at this stage will be minor issues, seen by very few customers; it's not like feeding VP30 a certain signal at wrong refresh rate will give you BSOD.

StooMonster

Yeah, but now you have reminded me of the original HDs, that tended to blow up NEC PGs. Josh (or Dale, or anyone) please assure me that the VP30 won't be a step backward, and bring back the ability to kill a perfectly good pj. I really like my 980 Ultra (9PGx) and don't want to get to know Doug or Curt any better than I do now. :)

Yeah, but now you have reminded me of the original HDs, that tended to blow up NEC PGs. Josh (or Dale, or anyone) please assure me that the VP30 won't be a step backward, and bring back the ability to kill a perfectly good pj. I really like my 980 Ultra (9PGx) and don't want to get to know Doug or Curt any better than I do now. :)
When the problem with NEC CRT projectors (which I'd call a design defect in the projector) was discovered, we made a change to the hardware in the iScan which prevented the failure-causing behavior in the iScan. This exact same hardware change is in the VP30, so there is definitely not a step backward here.

- Dale Adams

Thank you, sir. After remembering the issue, figured I'd better ask. My pj may be flawed - but it sure looks good with the old Pro. :) And with HTPC. Having a hard time waiting for the VP - glad to hear there won't be any problems. Thanks for the quick reply - appreciate it.

By the way we are still taking preorders for these. I know I am getting inquiries, so anyone interested feel free to contact us for details.

Hi Jason, I sent you an email, re pre order forum member invoice, but never got a reply..may I request again? thnx

I just got an AE900 and have the VP30 on preorder. I'm trying to get everything ready for when the VP30 comes in, and have a couple questions. I want to connect the VP30 component output to my TV, and the HDMI output to the projector. It would be nice if I can connect my HD receiver and DVD player to the VP30 with just HDMI cables, and then have the VP30 output over component or HDMI depending on what I'm watching. I believe HDMI can't be transcoded to component if HDCP is present, so I'm wondering if HDCP is only there for 480p and above, or is it also there for 480i (over HDMI)?

Since 480i is the very minimum output resolution it doesn't seem like anyone would care if a scaler transcoded that to component outputs.

jcg

With the outrageous price of 4x2 or 4x1 HDMI switchers would the VP30 be a good solution that offers more bang for the buck than a plain old $witcher. Even if not feeding it composite or s-video (480i) input.

In thinking how to integrate a VP30 into my system. Would it be unreasonable to 'intercept' the component video output of my A/V receiver and use the VP30 component or HDMI output to the display. Of course the component video input of the VP30 will have all kinds of different signals sent to it, such as 480p, 720 and 1080i. I'm thinking the VP30 will have to be set for the type of input, unless it will auto-change to accept and transcode any input on the component inputs. Who knows?

VideoNavi: why use your A/V Receiver as a swicher? Simply plug all your sources directly into VP30 (both video and audio), then then connect video to display (component or HDMI) and sound output to your A/V Receiver.

Benefits of this approach would include clearer video signal paths (higher quality pictures) and audio-delay / lip-sync processing of sound.

StooMonster

VideoNavi: why use your A/V Receiver as a swicher? Simply plug all your sources directly into VP30 (both video and audio), then then connect video to display (component or HDMI) and sound output to your A/V Receiver.
StooMonster

The one question that I haven't clearly understood the answer to is if the source audio & video signal is sent via the HDMI, can the audio be sent out on some other cable (e.g. Toslink)?

My receiver doesn't have an HDMI input, but my DVD player does have an HDMI output. I'd like to start getting the benefit of using HDMI for video, without losing audio. Last I heard the answer was unknown.

The one question that I haven't clearly understood the answer to is if the source audio & video signal is sent via the HDMI, can the audio be sent out on some other cable (e.g. Toslink)?

My receiver doesn't have an HDMI input, but my DVD player does have an HDMI output. I'd like to start getting the benefit of using HDMI for video, without losing audio. Last I heard the answer was unknown.

...many of us are waiting for clarification on this issue. Hopefully, DVDO is preparing an answer.

Can't you just use HDMI for video only, and use coax or optical into VP30 for sound? That way you get coax or optical sound out of VP30.

Last I read (above) the problem of source sound over HDMI being limited to HDMI output only is due to HDMI Specification from the HDMI Founders. As HDMI Adopters DVDO won't be able to break their HDMI License agreements, otherwise they could lose ability to source HDMI chips.

I would assume that there are some behind the scenes discussions going on, this issue will affect everyone in this market not just DVDO.

StooMonster

Can't you just use HDMI for video only, and use coax or optical into VP30 for sound? That way you get coax or optical sound out of VP30.

Last I read (above) the problem of source sound over HDMI being limited to HDMI output only is due to HDMI Specification from the HDMI Founders. As HDMI Adopters DVDO won't be able to break their HDMI License agreements, otherwise they could lose ability to source HDMI chips.

I would assume that there are some behind the scenes discussions going on, this issue will affect everyone in this market not just DVDO.

StooMonster

Calibre in the UK have found a solution to this problem - I think DVDO are not far behind :). Problem with using HDMI/HDCP encrypted sources for video connection only is that some us us will run out of digital audio inputs on the VP30. That is of course if the HD source(s) provide separate audio digital output(s) - and there is no guarantee that they will.

There are only 4 digital audio inputs on the VP30 - if you have 2 component and 2 s-video sources, you have used up all of your audio digital inputs, leaving none for the audio from any HDMI sources. If we could use the HDMI audio over the HDMI/HDCP input connections, AND have the full audio stream come out over the digital outputs of the VP30 as well, we effectively have another 4 digital audio inputs.

Is it November yet? I want my VP30 so I can get my new set calibrated. :p

Is it November yet? I want my VP30 so I can get my new set calibrated. :p

Nope, November always starts after Halloween, not before. :D

Josh/Dale,

Did y'all ever come to a conclusion on the output of digital audio on coax/optical from a HDMI+HDCP source? I was trolling the HDCP web site, reading the most recent license agreement and it would seem to be OK for LPCM (Max 48kHz/16bit) and compressed audio (which covers DD & DTS, all current DVD flavors at least.)

From Section 3.3.1.1:

A Presentation Device shall not permit the output of Audiovisual Content to digital
utputs, except, if the Presentation Device is also a Repeater, as expressly provided
in Section 5.3 of these Compliance Rules. Notwithstanding the foregoing,
Presentation Devices may output the audio portions of Decrypted HDCP Content
that is Audiovisual Content in (a) analog form shall be limited to 1.5 times normal
speed, unless the pitch is corrected to the pitch at normal speed. Except for the
requirement just described, sound quality of analog outputs is not restricted in any
way; or (b) digital form in either compressed audio format or in Linear PCM
format in which the transmitted information is sampled at no more than the
equivalent of 48 kHz and no more than 16 bits per channel and, for Licensed
Products that are not an internal peripheral or software component of a Computer
Product shall ensure that the SCMS information corresponding to “Copy-never” is
used for outputs that utilize SCMS.

Units should start shipping late November. The hardware is completed, ABT is tweaking the software, once completed they will load the units and start shipping. The first run is about 1000 units.

Units should start shipping late November. The hardware is completed, ABT is tweaking the software, once completed they will load the units and start shipping. The first run is about 1000 units.
"Late" November now....ack!

Units should start shipping late November. The hardware is completed, ABT is tweaking the software, once completed they will load the units and start shipping. The first run is about 1000 units.

Yikes!

Units should start shipping late November. The hardware is completed, ABT is tweaking the software, once completed they will load the units and start shipping. The first run is about 1000 units.


:(

Well this usually happens with a new porduct. At least we are being kept informed.

I just hope the guys at DVDO are able to test the VP30 with a Comcast DCT-6412 Phase III box. From the unhappy noises over in the Denon 3806 threads, apparently this box doesn't play very well with "HDMI switchers". So any testing and/or work-arounds to make this happen would be helpful to say the least.

Not being able to scale anything via HDMI from this particular cable DVR would be a bummer. Yes, I could always use the component ins, but that kind of defeats a main purpose of the VP30, doesn't it?

Josh/Dale, any comments?

Is the VP 30 out? Someone on Ebay has 3 of them for sale. Just do a search for VP30.

Abbas

Not being able to scale anything via HDMI from this particular cable DVR would be a bummer. Yes, I could always use the component ins, but that kind of defeats a main purpose of the VP30, doesn't it?

Not really. One of the big new features on the VP30 is the ability to scale component HD signals, which the HD+ just passes through.

Josh/Dale,

Did y'all ever come to a conclusion on the output of digital audio on coax/optical from a HDMI+HDCP source? I was trolling the HDCP web site, reading the most recent license agreement and it would seem to be OK for LPCM (Max 48kHz/16bit) and compressed audio (which covers DD & DTS, all current DVD flavors at least.)

From Section 3.3.1.1:

A Presentation Device shall not permit the output of Audiovisual Content to digital
utputs, except, if the Presentation Device is also a Repeater, as expressly provided
in Section 5.3 of these Compliance Rules. Notwithstanding the foregoing,
Presentation Devices may output the audio portions of Decrypted HDCP Content
that is Audiovisual Content in (a) analog form shall be limited to 1.5 times normal
speed, unless the pitch is corrected to the pitch at normal speed. Except for the
requirement just described, sound quality of analog outputs is not restricted in any
way; or (b) digital form in either compressed audio format or in Linear PCM
format in which the transmitted information is sampled at no more than the
equivalent of 48 kHz and no more than 16 bits per channel and, for Licensed
Products that are not an internal peripheral or software component of a Computer
Product shall ensure that the SCMS information corresponding to “Copy-never” is
used for outputs that utilize SCMS.


Hmmmm... a major revision since the earlier draft, that's for sure. But read on to section 5 where a "Repeater" (catagory for the VP30?) is again prohibited from doings things that are allowed in section 3. There seems to be a contraditory set of rules here. Seems as if section 3.3.1 was inserted in the August revision and some of the following sections were not updated accordingly. Notice the sunset clause 3.3.2.2.2 (c) for DVD-Audio too - products developed after October 1 this year cannot pass DVD-Audio. But, I think we're getting closer to having this issue resolved.

Never did get a reply to the questions below???

jcg

I just got an AE900 and have the VP30 on preorder. I'm trying to get everything ready for when the VP30 comes in, and have a couple questions. I want to connect the VP30 component output to my TV, and the HDMI output to the projector. It would be nice if I can connect my HD receiver and DVD player to the VP30 with just HDMI cables, and then have the VP30 output over component or HDMI depending on what I'm watching. I believe HDMI can't be transcoded to component if HDCP is present, so I'm wondering if HDCP is only there for 480p and above, or is it also there for 480i (over HDMI)?

Since 480i is the very minimum output resolution it doesn't seem like anyone would care if a scaler transcoded that to component outputs.

jcg

Never did get a reply to the questions below???

jcg

Hi jcg. From my reading of the "rules", if HDCP is applied, there would appear to be no exceptions in regard to the video part of the data stream. Have a read yourself of the revised August document. I can't see any reference to 480/576i.

http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCP_License_August_21_2005.pdf

I guess they are relying on the source not being HDCP encrypted if the res is only 480/576i. In that case transcoding is of course allowed (and enabled by the VP30). But what happens if another source connected to one of the other HDMI inputs does have HDCP on it. Does that mean that output to any analog video output is now barred? Hopefully only on an input by input basis. Still a pretty muddy picture isn't it!

Phil.

I currently have a 5 BNC connection (to my projector) to my iSCAN HD (HD-15). The cable cost a fortune. The VP30 has a 5 BNC output. What is the cheapest way to use this cable? I would need to convert the HD15 to another set of 5 BNCs. Thanks. SJ

Here is from BlueJeansCable.com - check half way down the page:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/rgbhv/index.htm

Breakout Adapter from Calrad:
If you're connecting to an HD15 plug, you'll need a breakout adapter with female BNCs on one end, and you'll want the accompanying cable to have male BNCs to connect to that adapter. At left is the Calrad HD15 breakout to five female BNCs; this adapter is made in China and no specs are available for it. We've had many customers use these without problems, and these adapters have the advantage of low cost: $25.95.

Thanks for the info. However, I need a cable with a female HD15 on one end (to attach to my current cable which currently plugs into my iSCAN HD) and male BNCs on the other (to attach to my new VP30).

By the way, I'm hoping that I really don't need this but I'm a little concerned that there might be some game play issues with my XBOX360. Not sure if there will be a lag as the 360 will be outputting component 720p into the VP30 which then has to transcode to digital for outputing to my projector (HDMI). No one answered my question about this (a few pages back). I currently switch to VGA output when I'm running XBOX games at 720p or 1080i. SJ

Any idea when these units will hit northern Europe? 'Cause if only 1000 units ship in a month, that's like a tiny drop in the huge american ocean (ie. market), I'd suspect. Since I've pre-ordered, VISA have frozen the money on my bank account until the unit ships to me. Which is OK, but the amount that I'll get in return for my iScan HD is also "frozen" 'till then. So - late December? January? February?

Any idea when these units will hit northern Europe? 'Cause if only 1000 units ship in a month, that's like a tiny drop in the huge american ocean (ie. market), I'd suspect. Since I've pre-ordered, VISA have frozen the money on my bank account until the unit ships to me. Which is OK, but the amount that I'll get in return for my iScan HD is also "frozen" 'till then. So - late December? January? February?

As far as i know (hope dvdo itself corrects me if i am wrong) the first production run covers all pre-orders. As of 2 weeks ago they expected units to be shipping to europe in mid-nov that seems to be at the same time as the usa units.

Greetings,

Daniel.

As far as i know (hope dvdo itself corrects me if i am wrong) the first production run covers all pre-orders. As of 2 weeks ago they expected units to be shipping to europe in mid-nov that seems to be at the same time as the usa units.

Greetings,

Daniel.

I am pre-order #1800, and I ordered August 23rd - if they are only producing 1000 then there are pre-orders that will have to wait for batch #2 (assuming that my order number indicates my place in line).

I am pre-order #1800, and I ordered August 23rd - if they are only producing 1000 then there are pre-orders that will have to wait for batch #2 (assuming that my order number indicates my place in line).

Well either they started counting at 1240 or some number or i am wrong :), In that case i was given a too optimistic view by dvdo 2 weeks ago.

Daniel.

Those of you with "pre-order" numbers - did you order direct from DVDO and get those or did you order here during the powerbuy? I ordered here thru Jason's powerbuy and have no idea where I am in line or order number. Just curious.

Ray

Those of you with "pre-order" numbers - did you order direct from DVDO and get those or did you order here during the powerbuy? I ordered here thru Jason's powerbuy and have no idea where I am in line or order number. Just curious.

Ray

direct from DVDO

Order No. 1930-Sept 14-direct from DVDO.

1834 09/01

Order No. 3 -- Aug. 16th -- direct from AVS :-)

Order No. 3 -- Aug. 16th -- direct from AVS :-)

hehe avs is fun, i guess by posting all our numbers other makers of scalers can
get a good idea of pre-sales volume not sure if dvdo figured that but on my order its is
silly high number that for sure is not the number of units sold sofar.

I didn't mean to start this guessing game but maybe a small update from dvdo is in needed ?

Daniel.

Why? - they've got our money, and our pre-orders. Now they can just keep delaying the ship date till a week after the new Lumagen ships. ;)

What happens to the traded in dvdo iscan hd+ units that are sent to dvdo??

Ben

benthx,

why do you need to know?

Most likely they are sold as B-stock or as used (I'm assuming).

hehe avs is fun, i guess by posting all our numbers other makers of scalers can get a good idea of pre-sales volume not sure if dvdo figured that but on my order its is silly high number that for sure is not the number of units sold sofar.
My pre-order number is the 00500000s!

When's my scaler going to arrive?

StooMonster

My pre-order number is the 00500000s!


The same is mine. I don't think order number has much to do with how many items are preordered/sold.

I ordered only a couple of weeks ago though, so if it's by the 'first come, first served' principle, I guess I'm waaay back there in the line. I can wait though; my iScan HD is doing what I want it to do as of now anyway.

Well, perhaps we've got half a million people in front of us! ;)

Yeah, my HD is doing what I want atm but I want the BNC outputs of VP30 and want to put my old HD to use elsewhere; as long as I get VP30 before February launch of HD in UK I'll be happy!

StooMonster

Well, perhaps we've got half a million people in front of us! ;)

Yeah, my HD is doing what I want atm but I want the BNC outputs of VP30 and want to put my old HD to use elsewhere; as long as I get VP30 before February launch of HD in UK I'll be happy!

StooMonster

Great! Then I guess you won't mind giving your spot in line to someone not
as fortunate as you :-)

I'm very interested in this new VP30. But it sounds like it won't get rid of mosquito noise. What would be the best way to do that in combination with the VP30?

I'm very interested in this new VP30. But it sounds like it won't get rid of mosquito noise. What would be the best way to do that in combination with the VP30?

Only products I know of are from Algolith. The Flea or the Mosquitos.

Perhaps Dale's adding mosquito noise removal as part of his new scaler?

StooMonster

In addition to fleas and mosquitos, does it also get rid of "chiggers"? My backyard is full of 'em! <grin>

Sorry, couldn't resist!

I just noticed Fry's Electronics and Magnolia HiFi's carry the iScan HD+. I wonder if they will carry the VP30 when it is released?

I sent Jason @ AVS an email yesterday for the AVS member price but haven't heard back yet...am I too late?

Update-Jason did email me, the email was quaratined as spam...

Hello,

I just found out from a reliable source that the VP30 has been delayed till the end of the month for shipment.

rmlowz

Here's hoping the delays at least provide time for a resolution on the HDCP/digital audio output situation.

Any news?

In a way I'm actually hoping the VP30 keeps getting delayed until it just morphs into the VP40 (next product). Price and upgrade from the HD to the VP30 was too good for me to pass up but it looks like what I really want/need is the next gen. Dale's comments on DVDO's new chip are intriguing and really make the VP30 a lame duck (unless the new processors start reaching price points that are typical for this type of toy). I'd put my VP30 preorder up right now for the new processor if DVDO would let me.

Hello,

I just found out from a reliable source that the VP30 has been delayed till the end of the month for shipment.

rmlowz
Darn it. What is the procedure to get the shipping upgraded? I originally requested 3 day, but if it's close to when Eliab is returning to install removable panels in my TV to prevent internal reflections, i will need to upgrade it to overnight shipping. I would really like to have it before he comes back so I can get it calibrated with the VP30 connected.

Hello,

I just found out from a reliable source that the VP30 has been delayed till the end of the month for shipment.

rmlowzThe revised ship date is November 28th.

I will definitely need to change to a faster shipping method than 3 day select! I guess I could change to 2 day shipping for only $18. Overnight would be an extra $50.

Where will these unit be shipping from and how would I find out how much for the different shipping methods?

You can check the online shop for shipping prices to your zip code. I just assume it will ship from the West Coast since that is where DVDO is located.

I will definitely need to change to a faster shipping method than 3 day select! I guess I could change to 2 day shipping for only $18. Overnight would be an extra $50.

Those of us ordering from AVS, will probably receive them from AVS...

Also I ordered within hours of the AVS/DVDO special pricing and Jason told
me to request shipping method once AVS had them and was ready to ship.

I wonder if I should let him know now that I want it shipped overnight...

We can accomodate any shipping speed. I will be contacting everyone before I ship them so you will have an oppurtunity to let me know.

I want to use the VP30 component output to feed my old big screen TV as a second monitor, but my old TV only has S-Video in. I have asked around, but nobody yet has been able to tell me where I can get a cable or "little black box" to do this for me.

I already have a component to SVGA cable, so even an SVGA to SVideo converter might work using this?

I am thinking there must be a cheap little black box that will downconvert component to Svideo somewhere? Any advice greatly appreciated.

Jason
Josh mentioned that he is going to send spacers to those who need to change the SDI module from their current DVDO to the VP30. Are you also going to provide them and how do we let you know we need them?

Yep, I need spacers too to remove SDI card from current DVDO scaler; how do I add these to my "international" order?

Is this included in the $250 charged for international shipping?

StooMonster

Spacers? That's the first I've heard of this....how do the rest of us upgraders go about telling DVDO we need them?

-John

I e-mailed DVDO last month about the spacers & they hinted that they might send the spacers/standoffs with every unit in case you need them.

I e-mailed DVDO last month about the spacers & they hinted that they might send the spacers/standoffs with every unit in case you need them.

Some where in this thread its explained that the 'spacers' needed for the sdi module will be in the new vp30 box. The reason is 2 fold a) its tricky to remove them b) they won't work anyway because they are the wrong length.

So no worries remove the sdi card, leave the spacers seems to be the idea.

Greetings,

Daniel.

Hmm... What's going on?

-As I mentioned earlier in the thread, VISA reserved an amount on my bank account when I had ordered the VP-30 (I have an iScan HD, and went for the international upgrade program dealy).

Just now, I went to use my bank's web-service to pay some bills and look over my account info, and now all of a sudden the amount that VISA had reserved, had been "unfrozen". The money were now in other words available for me to use again, and there was no mention of the transaction having taken place (well - not transaction, 'cause there was none, but: no mention of the reserving of the amount).

So what does this mean?


Is it a "friendly gesture" from DVDO, since they know it can take some time before the unit is actually shipped to me, and so they want me to be able to use my money in the mean time?

Or is it perhaps a VISA thing; that if the reservation isn't used for so many days, it's nullified?

Or is it perhaps that for some reason my upgrade process didn't go through after all; DVDO didn't find me and my iScan HD eligible for an upgrade?


I haven't received any e-mails from DVDO since I ordered, so if it's the latter I find it kinda strange. The reservation was there for several days after I ordered as well.

Hmm... What's going on?

-As I mentioned earlier in the thread, VISA reserved an amount on my bank account when I had ordered the VP-30 (I have an iScan HD, and went for the international upgrade program dealy).

Just now, I went to use my bank's web-service to pay some bills and look over my account info, and now all of a sudden the amount that VISA had reserved, had been "unfrozen". The money were now in other words available for me to use again, and there was no mention of the transaction having taken place (well - not transaction, 'cause there was none, but: no mention of the reserving of the amount).

So what does this mean?


Is it a "friendly gesture" from DVDO, since they know it can take some time before the unit is actually shipped to me, and so they want me to be able to use my money in the mean time?

Or is it perhaps a VISA thing; that if the reservation isn't used for so many days, it's nullified?

Or is it perhaps that for some reason my upgrade process didn't go through after all; DVDO didn't find me and my iScan HD eligible for an upgrade?


I haven't received any e-mails from DVDO since I ordered, so if it's the latter I find it kinda strange. The reservation was there for several days after I ordered as well.

Wouldn't it be easier to just email or call DVDO and find out :)

Just now, I went to use my bank's web-service to pay some bills and look over my account info, and now all of a sudden the amount that VISA had reserved, had been "unfrozen".
Same with mine. Although I do have an order confirmation. When they start shipping the unit I expect they will debit the card at that time.

Some where in this thread its explained that the 'spacers' needed for the sdi module will be in the new vp30 box. The reason is 2 fold a) its tricky to remove them b) they won't work anyway because they are the wrong length.

So no worries remove the sdi card, leave the spacers seems to be the idea.

Greetings,

Daniel.
Josh mentioned this for people ordering direct from DVDO. I am just wondering if TVA is going to do the same.

Wouldn't it be easier to just email or call DVDO and find out :)

Yes, but since people from DVDO frequent the boards, I thought I'd try here. Plus, other people may have experienced the same thing lately, and in that case I could find out through them.
-And it turned out that keenan has had the same thing happen, so I guess it's OK. :)

I thought the card won't be charged until it ships? I used my AMEX so I don't have any charges that get frozen, at least they don't show up anyway.

The card is not charged, but the money is put in suspense, or on hold, unaccessible. This happened when I first ordered but recently(mid-Oct) the amount has been released.

whoo whoo i just pre-ordered my vp30. Can't wait to try it out. I love the trade-in program that they have. I have used a hd+ for a year now and love it. most excellent product support.

The card is not charged, but the money is put in suspense, or on hold, unaccessible. This happened when I first ordered but recently(mid-Oct) the amount has been released.

I have a feeling it's that your credit card company releases the funds if they aren't used within a certain period of time. I'd call them first to confirm that.

Thanks for the info. However, I need a cable with a female HD15 on one end (to attach to my current cable which currently plugs into my iSCAN HD) and male BNCs on the other (to attach to my new VP30).

By the way, I'm hoping that I really don't need this but I'm a little concerned that there might be some game play issues with my XBOX360. Not sure if there will be a lag as the 360 will be outputting component 720p into the VP30 which then has to transcode to digital for outputing to my projector (HDMI). No one answered my question about this (a few pages back). I currently switch to VGA output when I'm running XBOX games at 720p or 1080i. SJ

Could someone from DVDO please answer my question regarding HD gaming systems? I'm two weeks away from getting our XBOX360 and wonder whether I need to purchase an analog output cable. I would prefer to only use HDMI (like what is shown in the VP30 configuration diagrams. Thanks! SJ

I have a feeling it's that your credit card company releases the funds if they aren't used within a certain period of time. I'd call them first to confirm that.
I think you're right on the money, in fact I think it's 30 days and then it gets released and that would fit the time period. Ordered Sep 15 and the amount appeared available around mid-Oct, so that makes sense. :)

Could someone from DVDO please answer my question regarding HD gaming systems? I'm two weeks away from getting our XBOX360 and wonder whether I need to purchase an analog output cable. I would prefer to only use HDMI (like what is shown in the VP30 configuration diagrams. Thanks! SJ

If you need info right away I would call their number listed in their website and ask to speak to tech support. I wouldn't expect Josh or another DVDO rep. to watch this thread everyday.

Good Luck
Ron

Could someone from DVDO please answer my question regarding HD gaming systems? I'm two weeks away from getting our XBOX360 and wonder whether I need to purchase an analog output cable. I would prefer to only use HDMI (like what is shown in the VP30 configuration diagrams. Thanks! SJ

I would expect that the VP30 will have the same processing delay times as the current HD+. Digitizing and/or scaling a progressive input signal without deinterlacing is .04 frames at 16.7 mS for 60Hz refresh rate, meaning a delay of 6.68 mS.

The VP30 has a new scaling engine, so perhaps it will work faster, but if I had to guess I'd say probably not.

Could someone from DVDO please answer my question regarding HD gaming systems? I'm two weeks away from getting our XBOX360 and wonder whether I need to purchase an analog output cable. I would prefer to only use HDMI (like what is shown in the VP30 configuration diagrams. Thanks! SJ

The xbox360 does not support HDMI - just analog HDTV via component or RGB cables.

Everyone else: what is this VP40 you are talking about? Has DVDO provided an idea about what it would include that is not present on the VP30?

VP40 is pure speculation, and it only exists in the above thread.

The speculation is ... VP30 specs but with ABT's new deinterlacer rather than Silicon Image SiI504.

StooMonster

The xbox360 does not support HDMI - just analog HDTV via component or RGB cables.

Everyone else: what is this VP40 you are talking about? Has DVDO provided an idea about what it would include that is not present on the VP30?

I realize that. My question was whether there will be any game lag as the VP30 transcodes the analog component to HDMI (digital). Thanks. SJ

I would expect that the VP30 will have the same processing delay times as the current HD+. Digitizing and/or scaling a progressive input signal without deinterlacing is .04 frames at 16.7 mS for 60Hz refresh rate, meaning a delay of 6.68 mS.

The VP30 has a new scaling engine, so perhaps it will work faster, but if I had to guess I'd say probably not.

The iSCAN HD+ does not transcode 720p and 1080i which will be the default for the XBOX360. But you are suggesting that it is likely that the delay would be the same as the iSCAN HD+ converting 480i/p to digital. This would be acceptable as that is what I'm running today with my XBOX. I only use the analog output for 720p or 1080i games. SJ

The iSCAN HD+ does not transcode 720p and 1080i which will be the default for the XBOX360. But you are suggesting that it is likely that the delay would be the same as the iSCAN HD+ converting 480i/p to digital.

That's my guess. I could be wrong if either the new scaling engine works faster than the HD+ engine, or if the VP30 takes longer to digitize 720p than it does 480p. I guess we'll need Josh or Dale to confirm.

Note that the current HD+ takes a lot longer to digitize 480i than it does 480p, because the deinterlacing process is more complicated and takes an additional 4 frames. To both deinterlace and scale an analog 480i signal takes 73 mS, as opposed to approx. 7 mS for 480p input.

Josh or Dale,

An interesting discussion in the below thread has me wondering whether the VP30 will be able to read aspect ratio flags embedded in the HDMI signal and adjust automatically?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=600430

Hmm... I read in some other threads here that the VP-30 will be old tech when it's released, compared to the competition. I ordered this unit because I've read a lot of good things about DVDO, and because I've had a good experience with the iScan HD. But I also ordered it in order to be somewhat 'future proof'(if that's possible in this game...). I also thought the VP-30 will be DVDO's new flagship.
So what's the truth; am I buying "old tech"?

Hmm... I read in some other threads here that the VP-30 will be old tech when it's released, compared to the competition. I ordered this unit because I've read a lot of good things about DVDO, and because I've had a good experience with the iScan HD. But I also ordered it in order to be somewhat 'future proof'(if that's possible in this game...). I also thought the VP-30 will be DVDO's new flagship.
So what's the truth; am I buying "old tech"?

The VP30 will be DVDO's new flagship processor and includes a brand new scaling engine. It continues to use the Sil504 deinterlacer, however. Some of the (much more expensive) competition have begun using HQV deinterlacers, which do better with video-based content.

DVDO's next generation product (timeframe unknown) will incorporate a proprietary deinterlacing chip of their own design.

I was told that when the new deinterlacing chip is made available they will offer an upgrade kit for the VP30 similar to the SDI kit. If true the VP30 should remain the flagship for a reasonable period of time.

I was told that when the new deinterlacing chip is made available they will offer an upgrade kit for the VP30 similar to the SDI kit. If true the VP30 should remain the flagship for a reasonable period of time.

That would be great if true. Where did you hear this?

Hmm... I read in some other threads here that the VP-30 will be old tech when it's released, compared to the competition. I ordered this unit because I've read a lot of good things about DVDO, and because I've had a good experience with the iScan HD. But I also ordered it in order to be somewhat 'future proof'(if that's possible in this game...). I also thought the VP-30 will be DVDO's new flagship.
So what's the truth; am I buying "old tech"?
There equipment, in a way, is future proof because of their generous trade in policy. I will definitley be trading in my VP30 for the VP40(or whatever it's called) because of their generous trade in offers.

I heard about the upgrade kit from DVDO tech support several weeks ago when I was asking about the HDMI issues.

They also said lacking a final definitive answer on the HDMI issues they would err on the side of the customer.

I was told that when the new deinterlacing chip is made available they will offer an upgrade kit for the VP30 similar to the SDI kit. If true the VP30 should remain the flagship for a reasonable period of time.

I would love for this to be true, but this seems to me to be a more complicated "upgrade" than going from the HD to the HD+ was.

I was told that when the new deinterlacing chip is made available they will offer an upgrade kit for the VP30 similar to the SDI kit. If true the VP30 should remain the flagship for a reasonable period of time.

I am not trying to be pessimistic but I dont believe this is true. Many posts back, Josh says that when the VP40 comes out, there will be another trade-in program. I think every time DVDO says there is an upgrade, it is talking about another trade-in program.

Abbas

I want to use the VP30 component output to feed my old big screen TV as a second monitor, but my old TV only has S-Video in. I have asked around, but nobody yet has been able to tell me where I can get a cable or "little black box" to do this for me.

I already have a component to SVGA cable, so even an SVGA to SVideo converter might work using this?

I am thinking there must be a cheap little black box that will downconvert component to Svideo somewhere? Any advice greatly appreciated.

I guess nobody is in a similar situation to me, or nobody knows of a cheap solution? If anyone is interested, I think I have a solution using a component to SVGA cable into a PC to SVideo converter box (about $60). Still need to do a test in the shop, but think this will save me about $250 (since the cheapest Component to SVideo converter I could find even discounted was $365!)

I have 2 question that follow on from this that I hope someone will be so kind as to help answer them :-

1) Can both HDMI and Component outputs be active at the same time?
2) Can the resolutions for each output be set seperately (e.g. can I set 480P for component output and 720P for the HDMI output, without having to manually change it every time)

All help appreciated

1) Can both HDMI and Component outputs be active at the same time?

I would doubt it. The DVI and VGA outputs on the current HD+ are not active at the same time. To do so, the scaler would have to run two separate processing functions simultaneously, which is probably too taxing for it. Also remember that any video source with HDCP encryption will not be passed through the analog output.

I would doubt it. The DVI and VGA outputs on the current HD+ are not active at the same time. To do so, the scaler would have to run two separate processing functions simultaneously, which is probably too taxing for it. Also remember that any video source with HDCP encryption will not be passed through the analog output.

Thanks, that's interesting, I understand the reasoning behind your answer. I actually had a HD+ last year for a little while, and now that I think about it more, I seem to remember using my projector facility to watch the same picture from 2 sources side by side, and thought I remembered comparing the DVI and Component ouputs side by side . It is a year ago so from what you say, my recollection must be incorrect, and I was probably comparing the source SVideo versus the HD+ DVI.

Any idea about the other question? At least if I can preset the output resolutions seperately for each output, it will save me having to set it every time I change from TV to Projector.

Any idea about the other question? At least if I can preset the output resolutions seperately for each output, it will save me having to set it every time I change from TV to Projector.

Currently, you have to set up separate Display Profiles for different resolution outputs. You can program the HD+ to default to a specific profile for certain inputs (e.g. anytime a DVI input signal comes in, it goes out by DVI at Profile 1, but anytime a component video input signal comes in you can default to a different Profile and/or different output). However, short of manually selecting which Profile you want there's really no way for the scaler to know which video ouput you want to use at any given time unless you always strictly match up one input to only one output.

Has there been any change on when the VP30's going to be shipping? Or is it still November 28th?

They also said lacking a final definitive answer on the HDMI issues they would err on the side of the customer.

Could you elaborate on this a bit? What specific HDMI issues are you referring to?

I believe this was covered in much detail earlier in this thread and others are more qualified to comment than me.

However there is a problem interpreting the HDMI standard as far as what audio can be processed on copy protected material. I was hoping to get rid a a few audio cables to my receiver but it may not be possible

And with only 4 digital inputs I won't be able to have the VP30 switch the audio with the HDMI since I will have 4 HDMI devices and 3 analog devices all needing digital inputs. If the HDMI inputs can't output the audio over the VP30 digital audio output, then I still have to use my INDAY Digital audio switcher which I was hoping I would be able to sell. Well at least I should be able to get rid of this Gefen HDMI switcher. It is a pain in the neck if too many IR codes are sent out it screws up the Gefen switcher.

And with only 4 digital inputs I won't be able to have the VP30 switch the audio with the HDMI since I will have 4 HDMI devices and 3 analog devices all needing digital inputs.

FOUR hdmi sources? Some people have just a few too many toys :) - I guess I could plug in all my dvd players, and dig out all my vcrs and video game systems, but realistically, I'm just running three sources; no real prob for me. DVD, hd box, nstc tuner. OK, PS2 when I play. PS3, maybe - depending on how bizarre Sony gets with their drm pogroms. (spelling intentional) Don't have a d-vhs deck. just curious - where and what do ya have for 4 hdmis?

Two HDTivos, a Sony 975 dvd player, and an Oppo dvd player.

Two HDTivos, a Sony 975 dvd player, and an Oppo dvd player.

Definitely too many toys. :p

The Pioneer 79Avi has the following options for the HDMI output. Will the VP30 be able to take advantage of the 12 bit component mode (with the HDMI output set to 480i)?

jcg


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Range RGB
Gives brighter colours and deeper black. Use if colours are weak. (This is the standard setting for HDMI compatible DVI devices, but it is also effective with HDMI devices.)

RGB
Use this setting if colours appear overly rich on the Full Range RGB setting.

Component (12bit)
Outputs 12bit component video format. If your connected device is compatible with this setting, 12-bit output provides very fine gradations of colour (if it is not compatible with this setting, the setting automatically reverts to Component).

Component
Outputs 8-bit component video format. This is the standard setting for HDMI-compatible devices.

The Pioneer 79Avi has the following options for the HDMI output. Will the VP30 be able to take advantage of the 12 bit component mode (with the HDMI output set to 480i)?
Where does the 12-bit information come from in 480i mode? Aren't DVDs 8-bit? I can see a DVD player increasing bit-depth if it was scaling, but simple 480i ... shouldn't that just be what the 8-bit MPEG2 defines (i.e. an 8-bit picture)?

StooMonster

I have no idea and that's why I asked the original question. Maybe someone from DVDO can chime in. This is also being discussed a bit over on the 79AVi thread in the DVD forum, so maybe we'll get an answer there.

jcg

Where does the 12-bit information come from in 480i mode? Aren't DVDs 8-bit? I can see a DVD player increasing bit-depth if it was scaling, but simple 480i ... shouldn't that just be what the 8-bit MPEG2 defines (i.e. an 8-bit picture)?

StooMonster

Currently, you have to set up separate Display Profiles for different resolution outputs. You can program the HD+ to default to a specific profile for certain inputs (e.g. anytime a DVI input signal comes in, it goes out by DVI at Profile 1, but anytime a component video input signal comes in you can default to a different Profile and/or different output). However, short of manually selecting which Profile you want there's really no way for the scaler to know which video ouput you want to use at any given time unless you always strictly match up one input to only one output.

Oh dear, and just when I thought this device was going to solve 90% of my problems. That means every time I switch outputs from DVI to component or vice versa, I have to re-program every input! That's horrible!

DVDO Josh can you confirm this is true for the VP30 too? If so, is there any way I can avoid this, or can you guys provide a simpler solution for switching outputs in the software?

Surely you set the output resolution for the output port not the input?

If it's just a case of setting the output port and resolution (2 IR commands in a remote macro) when switching outputs then I can live with that i guess.

Oh dear, and just when I thought this device was going to solve 90% of my problems. That means every time I switch outputs from DVI to component or vice versa, I have to re-program every input! That's horrible!

No, because you don't have to tie specific profiles to specific inputs. That's just an option that they offer to automate certain things. You can instead just set up two different general profiles, one for DVI output at a specified resolution and one for analog output at a different resolution, that both cover all input sources. You'd then have to manually switch between these profiles depending on which display you'll be watching (no way to automate it, unfortunately). The process for switching profiles takes 3 or 4 button pushes which you can follow along on the unit's front LED display.

The iSCAN HD+ does not transcode 720p and 1080i which will be the default for the XBOX360. But you are suggesting that it is likely that the delay would be the same as the iSCAN HD+ converting 480i/p to digital. This would be acceptable as that is what I'm running today with my XBOX. I only use the analog output for 720p or 1080i games. SJ

DVDO? You guys haven't posted for some time. Hopefully your busy boxing up VP30s for all of us :)

When I spoke with DVDO yesterday, I was still quoted 11/28 for the "start" of shipping.

When I spoke with DVDO yesterday, I was still quoted 11/28 for the "start" of shipping.

Their website now indicates the end of November (vs. FALL). Hope this is true!

Their website now indicates the end of November (vs. FALL). Hope this is true!

Considering it's 11 days away...I would think they it's so close that the margin of error is pretty slim. Plus, they have been consistent with his date for awhile now, so that bodes well for shipping a week from Monday (hear how nice that sounds).

Ron

DVDO is about 36 minutes away from home. Can't I pick up just the VP30 before Thanksgiving and have them ship the rest of my stuff (boxes and all) at the end of November? :D

No, because you don't have to tie specific profiles to specific inputs. That's just an option that they offer to automate certain things. You can instead just set up two different general profiles, one for DVI output at a specified resolution and one for analog output at a different resolution, that both cover all input sources. You'd then have to manually switch between these profiles depending on which display you'll be watching (no way to automate it, unfortunately). The process for switching profiles takes 3 or 4 button pushes which you can follow along on the unit's front LED display.

Thanks Josh. So, just so as I am clear, if I have 5 inputs and 2 outputs, and setup 2 profiles as you suggest (e.g. 1 for DVI 720P and another for Analog 480P) do I have to just change the profile every time and that's it, or do I have to change the Output as well as the profile?

cyborgx - The display profile feature on the iScan VP30 controls these parameters of the output:

• Output Type (Analog or Digital)
• Format (Resolution and all video output timing information)
• Output Aspect Ratio
• Sync Type
• Color Space (YPbPr/YCbCr or RGB)
• Output Level (Video or PC)
• Frame Rate Conversion information
• Border Level
• HDCP Mode

When you change between display profiles, all of these parameters will also be changed to the values that you preset that display profile with.

Josh,

Will the VP30 output a format that mimics "stretch modes" that Pioneer and Hitachi offer for standard def signals that combine slight horizontal stretch and slight zoom? I find this to result in a more natural 4:3 to 16:9 conversion than just widening the picture.

Now that these are getting close. I have some setup questions

Since the Optoma H79 has DVI input support for YCbCr and RGB color space and video or PC levels and the VP30 also has these as output options, which settings would be optimal?

Since the VP30 output is HDMI going to a DVI input it would be RGB 4:4:4 8 bit or YCbCr 4:2:2 12 bit at PC levels

cyborgx - The display profile feature on the iScan VP30 controls these parameters of the output:

• Output Type (Analog or Digital)
• Format (Resolution and all video output timing information)
• Output Aspect Ratio
• Sync Type
• Color Space (YPbPr/YCbCr or RGB)
• Output Level (Video or PC)
• Frame Rate Conversion information
• Border Level
• HDCP Mode

When you change between display profiles, all of these parameters will also be changed to the values that you preset that display profile with.

Josh, do you plan to implement the possibility of assigning a profile no only to the input but to also the incoming format on that same input? as my display can do both 50 and 60Hz this would help me avoid FRC using 1080i@50 for PAL and 1080i@60 for NTSC discs without having to change output format, its just only 5 button pushes on the RC but I'd prefer if it did automatically.

cyborgx - The display profile feature on the iScan VP30 controls these parameters of the output:

• Output Type (Analog or Digital)
• Format (Resolution and all video output timing information)
• Output Aspect Ratio
• Sync Type
• Color Space (YPbPr/YCbCr or RGB)
• Output Level (Video or PC)
• Frame Rate Conversion information
• Border Level
• HDCP Mode

When you change between display profiles, all of these parameters will also be changed to the values that you preset that display profile with.

Please tell me it still includes the image shift as in the HD+, I would hate to cancel my order at this stage if that was dropped.

Daniel.

Josh,

Will the VP30 be shipping with standoffs for the SDI module; for those of us with a HD+ with SDI module that we are trading-in for the VP30?

Thanks.

Please tell me it still includes the image shift as in the HD+, I would hate to cancel my order at this stage if that was dropped.

Daniel.

Image Shift is a control that is under the Output Aspect Ratio submenu.

Josh,

Will the VP30 be shipping with standoffs for the SDI module; for those of us with a HD+ with SDI module that we are trading-in for the VP30?

Thanks.

The VP30 will be shipping with the standoffs for the SDI module installed on the VIB (Video Input Board). All you need to do is remove the SDI module from your HD/HD+ and 'snap' it into your VP30.

THANKS, Josh.

Looking forward to the arrival of the VP30.

The VP30 will be shipping with the standoffs for the SDI module installed on the VIB (Video Input Board). All you need to do is remove the SDI module from your HD/HD+ and 'snap' it into your VP30.

Josh, does this mean that if I buy the VP30 and later decide to add SDI that all I need to do is buy the SDI module and pop it in?

Don

Josh, does this mean that if I buy the VP30 and later decide to add SDI that all I need to do is buy the SDI module and pop it in?

Don

This has always been the case. The SDI input module was designed to be installed by an end user and the software on the HD/HD+/VP30 will recognize that it is an available input and add it to the OSD.

Josh, does this mean that if I buy the VP30 and later decide to add SDI that all I need to do is buy the SDI module and pop it in?

Don

2 images of how easy it was and i guess will be on the HD+ and VP30


http://www.submarine.nl/mmbase/daniel/ht/images/dvdohd1.jpg

http://www.submarine.nl/mmbase/daniel/ht/images/dvdohd2.jpg

put in the board, connect cable :).

Daniel.

PS: tnx Josh i was just checking to make 100% sure on the image shift hehe

cyborgx - The display profile feature on the iScan VP30 controls these parameters of the output:

• Output Type (Analog or Digital)
• Format (Resolution and all video output timing information)
• Output Aspect Ratio
• Sync Type
• Color Space (YPbPr/YCbCr or RGB)
• Output Level (Video or PC)
• Frame Rate Conversion information
• Border Level
• HDCP Mode

When you change between display profiles, all of these parameters will also be changed to the values that you preset that display profile with.

Thanks, then I am not sure that the profiles are going to solve my issue. Some quick questions on profiles:-

1) I can create these profiles myself right?
2) Is there a limit to the number of profiles?
3) How do I name them?
4) Can these profiles be associated with the outputs or only inputs?
5) I can't remember what the remote looks like, does it have buttons for each output, and if so, which settings does it use when I switch outputs?
6) If the answers to (4) and (5) are not YES, the profiles will still be not much use to me, since the output is fixed in the profile, unless I can create a total of 10 profiles (2 for each 5 source). Even then, I will still need to create remote macros for each remote function (e.g. Watch TV on projector) to go through the VP30 menus switching profiles (and have them flash on the screen) every time I change function. Right or am I missing something?

I would expect that the VP30 will have the same processing delay times as the current HD+. Digitizing and/or scaling a progressive input signal without deinterlacing is .04 frames at 16.7 mS for 60Hz refresh rate, meaning a delay of 6.68 mS.

The VP30 has a new scaling engine, so perhaps it will work faster, but if I had to guess I'd say probably not.

Josh,
What is the processing delay associated with converting 720p (component) to 720P (HDMI)? I will be using my new VP30 with my XBOX 360. I currently convert 480p (component) to 480p (HDMI) on my current XBOX (with my iSCAN HD), but use the analog output for 720p or 1080i games. I was not intending to use the analog output of the VP30, unless there would be enough noticeable game delay in the transcoding from 720p component to HDMI (running to my projector). By the way, I watched the CEDIA show last night and saw the DVDO segment. Guess your now a movie star as well as a techie :) SJ

Josh,

Does the VP30 have video noise reduction circuitry similar to the Misquito to improve SD noise problems? If not, is that planned for an upgrade?

6 More days gang before the VP30's start shipping! Hopefully it won't get changed...

6 More days gang before the VP30's start shipping! Hopefully it won't get changed...

That means I should have mine in seven :-)

That reminds me. I need to order some longer HDMI cables from RAM berfore my VP30 shows up. It will be nice to get rid of that darn Gefen HDMI switch. I also need to see if I can change shipping to two day, although I'm thinking it might be best to leave it at three day and not risk something getting messed up with the order.

I haven't gotten any shipping options on my order from the AVS preorder with Jason. I wonder if they will be drop-shipped or not...

I haven't gotten any shipping options on my order from the AVS preorder with Jason. I wonder if they will be drop-shipped or not...


I'm wondering the same thing. Just sent Jason an e-mail.

Mike

The iScan VP30 Owner's Manual is now available at:

http://www.dvdo.com/documents/DVDO_iScanVP30_PG_ABT_75-0239-01.pdf

you guys are excellent, I'm glad I ordered a VP30 with this kind of customer service :)

BTW, i've been checking your website twice a day to see when the VP30 manual was going to be up

The iScan VP30 Owner's Manual is now available at:

http://www.dvdo.com/documents/DVDO_iScanVP30_PG_ABT_75-0239-01.pdf

AWESOME!

I'm wondering the same thing. Just sent Jason an e-mail.

Mike

Hopefully, Jason will give an update here as I'm sure there's lots of us in the same boat.

Oh... typos. Page 25, surely those resolutions are 768 and not 168!

StooMonster

Oh... typos. Page 25, surely those resolutions are 768 and not 168!

StooMonster

Ssssttt.

Now they will delay shipping fix call the printer, fix the typo... delay for 14days :)

Daniel.

Hey all! Sorry I have been away. Busy time of year with installs and whatnot. I have a call into DVDO now to confirm shipments. I will be contacting everyone to finalize payment and shipping options as well.

Stoo - Thanks for pointing out the typos. The output resolutions that you are talking about are indeed 1366x768 and 1280x768 ('168' is a typo).

Question for DVDO, in the manual on page 5 the picture does not show where the IR window is, I assume it's the small round window inside the larger square one next to the FPD. Mine will be mounted in a equipment closet using IR repeaters, so just wanted to make sure.

thanks

It looks like we will need a HD15 to 5BNC cable to hook up to a SS DLP. I hope one of you first lucky ones compares the HDMI to VGA so I know if I need to order a cable.

It looks like we will need a HD15 to 5BNC cable to hook up to a SS DLP. I hope one of you first lucky ones compares the HDMI to VGA so I know if I need to order a cable.

the only way you are going to get 1080p to the SS is VGA...

Question for DVDO, in the manual on page 5 the picture does not show where the IR window is, I assume it's the small round window inside the larger square one next to the FPD. Mine will be mounted in a equipment closet using IR repeaters, so just wanted to make sure.

thanks

Yes, the circular lense next to the FPD is where the IR window is located.

the only way you are going to get 1080p to the SS is VGA...

But will it work? I couldn't get 1080P over the vga to work with the HD+ and my Samsung.

But will it work? I couldn't get 1080P over the vga to work with the HD+ and my Samsung.

I don't know about the HD+ but according to Josh, it will work on the VP30...


Have you tried DVDO tech support?

the only way you are going to get 1080p to the SS is VGA...

That is why I was asking about the required cable.

I believe the i picked the 5 BNC to vga cable for my free cable option when I placed my order with DVDO. At least I hope I did that and don't have to order one. I will probably need a vga switch to switch between the VP30, Xbox360, and HTPC if I go the VGA route with the 360 and 1080P works out of the Vga on VP30.
Are there any remote controlled vga switchers?

Hey all! Sorry I have been away. Busy time of year with installs and whatnot. I have a call into DVDO now to confirm shipments. I will be contacting everyone to finalize payment and shipping options as well.

So, I've not read this entire thread but I've read 2/3rds...and I'm quite interested in the iScan VP30 as both an outboard processor and an HDMI switcher. I was looking at upgrading my A/V reciever to one with HDMI and scaling built in, and/or getting simply a switcher for the time being (HDMI sources: E* 942, JVC D-Vhs, Sony 995 DVD juke now, anticipate a PS3 w/ HDMI as soon as it comes out, or perhaps a HTPC hookup come early '06). My Sony only has two HDMI in, so I need a switcher no matter what--the video processing is a huge bonus I'd be willing to 'splurge' on. Does seem that this unit is a great choice for my needs, esp. for the money (I definitely can't go over $2K).

Big question, am I too late for the party on the special AVS member pricing? I sent an e-mail hoping against hope, but wondering if its been cut off officially and I just didn't see it posted.

I am new at this, so I need help.
I was thinking of upgrading my system with a new receiver, I actually own a 3 year old yamaha that does not upconvert video. I must say that I am very pleased with the performance of the Yamaha matching my PSB speakers. So I was planning on buying a new receiver with video upconvertion and upscaling functions to feed my Mitsubishi HD DPL with DVI input. So I could get better picture from DVD's (I watch DVD 480p 30% of the time), SD Directv (60%), other SD sources (10%). 80% of the time I watch TV and 20% I hear music. So it is much more important video than audio to me.
After reading several posts in this forums I got more confused than I was before reading those posts.
A decent receiver that has the DVI upscale/upconvert costs $700 - $1,200.
Than I found out about DVDO upscaler that is around $1,100. All the reviews are great for this product. I have not found a review in this forum, though.
So, in your honest opinion should I buy the DVDO upscaler instead of the receiver, and than upgrade my receiver with a cheaper receiver that does not have upconvertion, Like the Panasonic that everybody is talking about ($220)? Or buy a new and better receiver and forget about the DVDO?
What honest difference in picture quality would the DVDO VS a new Yamaha, Onkyo, JVC or HK receiver will it be?
Is it worth the DVDO upscaler for SD Directv? The actual Directv picture is very clean, I have a larger dish.
In your opinion, what would you do in my place?
I will appreciate your answer, I have to make up my mind very soon.
Thanks in advance

I skimmed through your post and to be honest, I can't imagine a receiver having the capability to properly scale an image as well as a DVDO product. Which model are you referencing? I guarantee there are past threads detailing each and every DVDO scaler. Unless you are talking about the VP30, you are best to start a separate thread detailing models of all products you are asking for a comparison between.

Ron

Thans for your reply Ron
I am talking about iScan Hd procesor with SDI upgrade. I've seen it in a Net for $999. I know is a past model but after reading the reviews is, in my opinion, the best option, regarding price vs performance.
I have been looking like crazy in AV forum for 3 days and I can't find a review. I tried search, but I found only posts with features discussions, but not an actual review.
So, in your opinion the iScan will have much better performance in upgrading picture quality than the Harman Kardon AVR7300, or the Yamaha HTR5990 or any other receiver in that price range?
Thanks

Here is a review of the DVDO HD, from UltimateAV, there is also a review on Secrets (bottom of the web page).

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprocessors/1004dvdo/

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=118

Also, have you tried the AVSForum Archives section and search there? You can find this section at the bottom of the Main Thread page.

Here is a review of the DVDO HD, from UltimateAV, there is also a review on Secrets (bottom of the web page).

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprocessors/1004dvdo/

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=118

Also, have you tried the AVSForum Archives section and search there? You can find this section at the bottom of the Main Thread page.

Unless you are really set on the HD, why not consider the HD+ at just a few dollars more? Visit the Lenexpo site and have a look at their offerings if you've not done so already.

In your considerations, bear in mind that the iScan products (HD, HD+ and VP30) are much more than just a scaler. It is a very comprehensive A/V switcher, with each and every video input having its individual adjustments for brightness, contrast, size etc etc. If all your inputs are already taken care off by your receiver, and you are happy with the way it processes each input (i.e. you don't need to adjust any of the picture parameters when switching between your different sources, then I don't think that you are really in need of an iScan or the like. Just a so called "line doubler" should suffice, i.e just a scaling/de-interlacing engine is all you need.

Phil.

Phil
My receiver works great audio wise. Dolbi digital 5.1 or DTS or even Dolby Prologic
Video wise does nothing it is just a switcher. No upscaling or Upgrading, nothing.
I plug a Samsung HD DVD directly to the TV with DVI at 1080i. Looks great. And I know it is a low end player.
I plug a Panasonic DVDR directly to the TV with component at 480p. Looks ok to good.
I plug a Directv receiver thrught my Yamaha AV reciever through S-Video it looks OK.
I have to use the input button every time I want to watch a different source, it is anoying, besides de difference in picture quality.
The system sounds great, but the picture quality is not that great. So maybe a DVDO upscaler will do the trick. What do you think? Should I go for it?
Thanks for your help.

I got some iScan HD stuff on my site here. (http://rennfast.dns2go.com/Public/Scaler/DVDO/)

Phil
My receiver works great audio wise. Dolbi digital 5.1 or DTS or even Dolby Prologic
Video wise does nothing it is just a switcher. No upscaling or Upgrading, nothing.
I plug a Samsung HD DVD directly to the TV with DVI at 1080i. Looks great. And I know it is a low end player.
I plug a Panasonic DVDR directly to the TV with component at 480p. Looks ok to good.
I plug a Directv receiver thrught my Yamaha AV reciever through S-Video it looks OK.
I have to use the input button every time I want to watch a different source, it is anoying, besides de difference in picture quality.
The system sounds great, but the picture quality is not that great. So maybe a DVDO upscaler will do the trick. What do you think? Should I go for it?
Thanks for your help.

I think you've precisely nailed it. You get variations in PQ because you use your display has to do the de-interlacing and up/down scaling. Most displays (read all to date), do not have the same quality scalers in them that are fitted in the iScan products.

So, with an iScan product, you would set its output to your screen's best performance/resolution, usually 1080i or 720p, and let the iScan do the hard video work to turn all its inputs to the same best resolution on your display. As a bonus, it will also switch your audio (and insert the appropraite audio delay) with the video at the same time, so no more fiddling with 2 remotes to switch from one source to another. Very good points to bring up with the CFO.

Have a look at some of the postings on the Australian AV Forum as well, where I (my alias is JPP on this Forum) and a number of others have made quite a few postings on how an iScan or equivalent can help you integrate your entire system.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=22816

If you are going to go for an iScan, you might have to consider whether you need HDMI at some time in the future. This could bring up the prickly issue of audio over HDMI with HDCP and may make you think about a VP30 instead of an HD+. Plenty of discussion in this thread about all of this. You'll need some very good arguments to present to the CFO though, as the VP30 is nearly twice the price of an HD+.

I don't think you will find anyone on this forum or any other, that has evaulated the video scaling performance on all of the equipment you've listed earlier. There are just too many DVD's etc etc on the market to keep up with them all. I think you will have to accept the fact that as so many of us are interested in products like the DVDO iScan, that there must be something in it for most of us and of a lot of us have some pretty sophisticated equipment. So, maybe you'll just have to have a little blind faith in all of this, unless you're prepared to spend the time (hours and hours of web reading) and money (buying equipment that turns out not to live up to its expecations)) and do all the evaluations yourself.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Phil.

I've read thru the VP30 specs at the DVDO site, but couldn't tell if this device includes support for taking a 4:3 input (cable, satellite, etc.) and outputing it in a variable stretch scenario. Specially, I have a RPTV Pioneer Elite tv that takes a 4:3 input signal and stretches it by leaving the middle third of the picture relatively "intact" and stretches the outer thirds to fill the screen. THis results in a more natural looking picture for the centar objects.

Does anyone know if this is available on the VP30?

Thanks!

I've read thru the VP30 specs at the DVDO site, but couldn't tell if this device includes support for taking a 4:3 input (cable, satellite, etc.) and outputing it in a variable stretch scenario. Specially, I have a RPTV Pioneer Elite tv that takes a 4:3 input signal and stretches it by leaving the middle third of the picture relatively "intact" and stretches the outer thirds to fill the screen. THis results in a more natural looking picture for the centar objects.

Does anyone know if this is available on the VP30?

Thanks!

Not currently to the best of my knowledge, but DVDO did say earlier in one of their postings in this thread that that would be a feature that might come out on one of the next firmware releases.

Specially, I have a RPTV Pioneer Elite tv that takes a 4:3 input signal and stretches it by leaving the middle third of the picture relatively "intact" and stretches the outer thirds to fill the screen. THis results in a more natural looking picture for the centar objects.

Does anyone know if this is available on the VP30?

Thanks!

Glad u brought this up. The stretch is a necessary feature from my view. I'm hoping DVDO added this feature on release, if not maybe they will soon. Those with 16x9 crts and projector setups need this to prevent burn-in. Also, if the stretch is done well, it's nice to fill the 16:9 screen for 4:3 channels and other sources. A few of our Scooby Doo DVDs are 4:3... ^_^

Glad u brought this up. The stretch is a necessary feature from my view. I'm hoping DVDO added this feature on release, if not maybe they will soon. Those with 16x9 crts and projector setups need this to prevent burn-in. Also, if the stretch is done well, it's nice to fill the 16:9 screen for 4:3 channels and other sources. A few of our Scooby Doo DVDs are 4:3... ^_^

Just to make sure I haven't confused anyone in my earlier post, the iScan DOES stretch - no probs. It just doesn't yet do a "smart" stretch.

Let me ask a quickie here:

lets say I have the VP30 and input 1080i HDMI from my Dish Network 942, my display device is a Mitsubishi 65813, so I output the same from the HDMI port: 1920x1080i

lets say I activate the CUE filter, do some underscan and adjust bright/contrast a bit, thats all

what exactly would the VP30 do to the incoming 1080i signal?? scaling?? processing?? conversions of anykind??

just trying to get a idea as to how the VP30 would treat a incoming signal that is output the same resolution as the input

thanks guys

-Gary

You can set the overscan/underscan to whatever you want to have it fit perfectly on your screen.

Thanks

I wonder if the underscan works by scaling the image??

-Gary

Just to make sure I haven't confused anyone in my earlier post, the iScan DOES stretch - no probs. It just doesn't yet do a "smart" stretch.
Does it allow a custom configuration of some linear stretch and some zoom? Pioneer and Hitachi plasmas do this and I find it much more natural than the non-linear stretches a la Panasonic "just".

Thanks

I wonder if the underscan works by scaling the image??

-Gary

It has to. There is no other way to do it.