Let me ask a quickie here:

lets say I have the VP30 and input 1080i HDMI from my Dish Network 942, my display device is a Mitsubishi 65813, so I output the same from the HDMI port: 1920x1080i

lets say I activate the CUE filter, do some underscan and adjust bright/contrast a bit, thats all

what exactly would the VP30 do to the incoming 1080i signal?? scaling?? processing?? conversions of anykind??

just trying to get a idea as to how the VP30 would treat a incoming signal that is output the same resolution as the input

thanks guys

-Gary

It shouldn't do anything scaling wise, it will just do picture adjustments in the digital domain. No sizing.

Would there be any problem hooking a JVC D-Theater deck into this unit and sending the signal to my projector via HDMI?

Josh,
What is the processing delay associated with converting 720p (component) to 720P (HDMI)? I will be using my new VP30 with my XBOX 360. I currently convert 480p (component) to 480p (HDMI) on my current XBOX (with my iSCAN HD), but use the analog output for 720p or 1080i games. I was not intending to use the analog output of the VP30, unless there would be enough noticeable game delay in the transcoding from 720p component to HDMI (running to my projector). By the way, I watched the CEDIA show last night and saw the DVDO segment. Guess your now a movie star as well as a techie :) SJ

Josh, can you provide an answer for this? What is the processing delay for this setup?

So, maybe you'll just have to have a little blind faith in all of this...

I'm close to jumping onboard to the VP30 bandwagon but am having some trouble translating the audio switching capabilities using the VP30.

Assuming I have a lineup of HDMI-capable equipment (DVD and HD-STB sources), and use the VP30 as a hub to connect these sources to my HDMI-capable display, am I then using my HDMI capable receiver for audio only amplification (no switching), and is the audio connection a single digital coax or component audio from the VP30 to the receiver for the audio switching on the VP30 to work as advertised?

If this is the case, seems the VP30 makes an HDMI-capable receiver like the TX-SR803 completely unnecessary.

Thanks in advance,

-bd

bd, you have a pm on this.

Rob no problem at all, the VP30 will convert analog component to HDMI/DVI output(unless you are speaking of the 5u, which already has HDMI), this is going to be another great use for this unit, my xbox 360's component output will be sent to my displays best input(DVI) :)

-Gary

Rob no problem at all, the VP30 will convert analog component to HDMI/DVI output(unless you are speaking of the 5u, which already has HDMI), this is going to be another great use for this unit, my xbox 360's component output will be sent to my displays best input(DVI) :)

-Gary

Cool, thanks for the response Gary. Frankly, the main reason I am interested in this is so I can just run one hdmi cable to the projector and connect everything else to the VP30. For the price of a quality switcher, you might as well pay a bit more and get top quality scaling and deinterlacing as well.

Today is the 28th - has anyone received their VP30 yet? :)

Today is the 28th - has anyone received their VP30 yet? :)

Well they replaced the 'shipping end of nov with nothing' so i am guessing it started shipping to dealers.

Daniel.

Anyone have their CC charged yet? I ordered from the DVDO site with the AVS discount. Do you think they will start shipping those today?

Has anyone recieved an inquiry from Jason about shipping, that he was going to do before sending out the units?

:) just talked to DVDO sales - they are shipping the first units today - they said my September preorder should ship Tuesday - Wednesday at the latest. ;) He also said there would be email confirmation on shipping - so we should see something soon.

Yup! They are starting to ship today, with all units shipping by weeks end. My units have ot come to us first due to the large quantity. I sent everyone an email about shipping speed and payment options.

Jason,

In your email you ask 2 questions. The first oneis easy. Don't understand the options in the second.

2. Did you want it sent a specific way?

Other ppl may have the same question so I'm posting it here.

Thanks

:) just talked to DVDO sales - they are shipping the first units today - they said my September preorder should ship Tuesday - Wednesday at the latest. ;) He also said there would be email confirmation on shipping - so we should see something soon.

I guess I'll leave my shipping at 3 day. If I'm luck it will ship Tuesday and I can get it Friday. Although realistically I'll probably end up getting it Monday. And if I change to 2 day shipping it wouldn't ship until Thursday, at least that always seems to happen.

That component to HDMI/DVI transcoding is going to be sweet, like I said it will be a godsend for my xbox 360 and Bell Expressvu 6000 and one DVI cable to the display is nice

The VP30 is going to be the center of my entire system and I can't wait :D

-Gary

Anyone know what percentage of the preorders are covered by this first batch? Do you think all preorders are covered (world wide) ?

If so, approximately how long will it take before they reach northern Europe?

I ordered only a month ago, so I'm quite far in the back of the line.

Jason,

Per your post, I never got an e-mail on my VP30 upgrade, which I ordered through the link in the Forum. Should I be concerned? Thanks!

P.S. From DVDO: Reference Number: 00001912

Where I be able to still get the trade-in on my current iScan HD+?

- Gerry




Yup! They are starting to ship today, with all units shipping by weeks end. My units have ot come to us first due to the large quantity. I sent everyone an email about shipping speed and payment options.

Thanks to Jason for the PM's explaining the situation. I was confused, thinking the link that was here for ordering/trading in the VP30 was going through him. My confusion.

- Gerry


Jason,

Per your post, I never got an e-mail on my VP30 upgrade, which I ordered through the link in the Forum. Should I be concerned? Thanks!

P.S. From DVDO: Reference Number: 00001912

Where I be able to still get the trade-in on my current iScan HD+?

- Gerry

Yup! They are starting to ship today, with all units shipping by weeks end. My units have ot come to us first due to the large quantity. I sent everyone an email about shipping speed and payment options.



I ordered mine within the first hour or two of the program and have asked
for overnight shipping. So I assume I will have mine before the end of
the week? I am hoping anyway...

i am still confused on some subjects. does the hdmi accept and pass through 1080p? also in the sound department from what i could understand is that if you use the hdmi for audio then the audio must be sent through the hdmi output to tv, and the optical output for audio wont work (only if hdcp protected), but what if you also connect an audio in (coax or optical) from the same source as the hdmi can you use the optical out with a hdmi source? that is what i am confused on. Also what level of audio does the hdmi accept and pass through 7.1 5.1 or stereo? this is important since hdmi wont allow me to use the optical audio sources. thanks for your reply
-rob

Thanks to Jason for the PM's explaining the situation. I was confused, thinking the link that was here for ordering/trading in the VP30 was going through him. My confusion.

- Gerry
I guess I am confused also. I ordered through the link with Jason, but my receipt is from DVDO. Does that mean DVDO will be shipping to me this week?

I am still confused on some subjects. does the hdmi accept and pass through 1080p?

The HDMI inputs on the VP30 will not process or pass-through a 1080p signal, with the initial software release.

Also in the sound department from what i could understand is that if you use the hdmi for audio then the audio must be sent through the hdmi output to tv, and the optical output for audio wont work (only if hdcp protected)

If you connect an HDMI source (using an HDMI cable) to the iScan VP30 you CAN indeed get audio out via the optical or coaxial digital outputs. In my own testing I have seen (or is that heard?) this work with the HD-TiVo on multiple channels and the DVD-5910 with Dolby and dts content.

But what if you also connect an audio in (coax or optical) from the same source as the hdmi can you use the optical out with a hdmi source?

Sure, you can assign any of the audio inputs (even the analog) to the HDMI inputs and use optical and/or coaxial outputs.

that is what i am confused on. Also what level of audio does the hdmi accept and pass through 7.1 5.1 or stereo?

5.1 compressed (Dolby/dts) audio and PCM are output over optical/coax digital as well as HDMI.

this is important since hdmi wont allow me to use the optical audio sources.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Can you please elaborate?

That component to HDMI/DVI transcoding is going to be sweet, like I said it will be a godsend for my xbox 360 and Bell Expressvu 6000 and one DVI cable to the display is nice

The VP30 is going to be the center of my entire system and I can't wait :D

-Gary

I agree, but I would like to hear from DVDO (must have asked 6 times :) ) about the delay associated with transcoding XBOX360 720P (analog) to 720P HDMI (game lag)... Isn't the 360 great! SJ

anyone getting theirs today, I bet some do tomorrow

I agree, but I would like to hear from DVDO (must have asked 6 times :) ) about the delay associated with transcoding XBOX360 720P (analog) to 720P HDMI (game lag)... Isn't the 360 great! SJ

Are you talking about how long it takes the Iscan HD+ to sync up the video when you switch your XBOX360 to 720p or 1080i via the menu system? I have my XBOX360 hooked up via component to the Iscan and DVI out to the projector (Infocus 7205 720p). When I switch the XBOX360 to 720p I get a blank screen and then after about 10 seconds the image comes back up but it stays in 480p. There is a comment on the screen that if it doesn't sense the format change in 10 seconds that it will switch back to 480p. Is this what you were talking about?

Are you talking about how long it takes the Iscan HD+ to sync up the video when you switch your XBOX360 to 720p or 1080i via the menu system? I have my XBOX360 hooked up via component to the Iscan and DVI out to the projector (Infocus 7205 720p). When I switch the XBOX360 to 720p I get a blank screen and then after about 10 seconds the image comes back up but it stays in 480p. There is a comment on the screen that if it doesn't sense the format change in 10 seconds that it will switch back to 480p. Is this what you were talking about?

No, they want to know how much of a delay the deinterlacing and scaling in the VP30 takes when processing a 720p or 1080i signal. This will be measured in milliseconds. They want to know because even a small delay may affect gameplay with videogames that require precisely timed movements (such as fighting games). If the video image you see on screen is delayed by, say, 70 mS when being scaled, that means that by the time you see an action on screen and hit the appropriate button, you're already 70 mS behind the actual gameplay as the gaming console is processing it. By the time you hit that "punch" button, the AI opponent has already made another move and beaten you.

OK Josh. Thanks for the clarification. I guess I need to contact DVDO then to see what may be causing the issue I am seeing. The HD+ is upconverting the 480p signal being senting from the XBOX360 to 720p but I would like to be able to send 720p straight from the XBOX360 through the Iscan to the Infocus 7205.

I just got off the phone with DVDO and they have DELAYED the shipping of the VP30 for another two weeks. The reason given to me was to administer a fix for a software glitch. None of the units were shipped out yesterday.

Ron

Clark,

If I understand the way you have the 360 hooked up through your IScan, component from the 360 and then DVI to the Projector, is this correct. If this is correct, the IScan cannot transcode 720P over component to 720P over DVI. I think this is your problem. The VP30 will be able to this transcoding.

I just got off the phone with DVDO and they have DELAYED the shipping of the VP30 for another two weeks. The reason given to me was to administer a fix for a software glitch. None of the units were shipped out yesterday.

Ron

Bummer! :(

I'm crying now. It is true. They were about to ship them yesterday and discovered some bugs. Mostly PAL ones, but they decided it would be best to fix the issues. I'm SO sorry people. Anyways they are saying worst case 12/12 ship time. I'm crossing my fingers.

josh@dvdo thanks for thereply. I looked through the faq and found the 1080p answer. for the audio questions i found this in the faq
"The HDMI inputs will also accept audio, given that the video signal is on the same input. If the incoming HDMI signal has HDCP, then the iScan VP30 can not output this audio using the optical or coaxial digital outputs, only the HDMI output." i am confused because you say opposite, i am reading wrong or is there a conflict of words? thanks for the answers
-robert

Jason,

Is there any way for AVS preorder buyers to have the unit ship directly from DVDO? I live in Northern California, that would mean my unit would ship to New York then back to California.

Check List for birthday gift to myself:

SDI kit (check)

Pre-owned SDI modded dvd player (check)

DVDO Iscan VP30 Nooooooooooooooooooooo

I guess I will install the SDI kit in the HD+ and take it out and reinstall in the VP30 when it arrives. Hopefully, it doesn't become a Christmas gift to myself.

Seriously, I want them to do the right thing which is administer the fix before shipping. So am I disappointed...sure. Am I upset with DVDO...no way.

Ron

Clark,

If I understand the way you have the 360 hooked up through your IScan, component from the 360 and then DVI to the Projector, is this correct. If this is correct, the IScan cannot transcode 720P over component to 720P over DVI. I think this is your problem. The VP30 will be able to this transcoding.

Don,

Thanks for the reply. You had my setup listed correctly and this was what I was afraid of but wanted to confirm with this group to be sure. Guess I need to get my order for the VP30 in. :)

Don,

Thanks for the reply. You had my setup listed correctly and this was what I was afraid of but wanted to confirm with this group to be sure. Guess I need to get my order for the VP30 in. :)


OK..just thought about this after I had hit Send. Shouldn't the component inputs on the HD+ still be able to passthru a 720p signal to the DVI output?

Sorry for discussing an HD+ topic on the VP30 thread. I will move it over if necessary.

OK..just thought about this after I had hit Send. Shouldn't the component inputs on the HD+ still be able to passthru a 720p signal to the DVI output?

Sorry for discussing an HD+ topic on the VP30 thread. I will move it over if necessary.

No. It will NOT pass through a 720p signal that is input over component out the DVI output.
Best,
Chris

I'm crying now. It is true. They were about to ship them yesterday and discovered some bugs. Mostly PAL ones, but they decided it would be best to fix the issues. I'm SO sorry people. Anyways they are saying worst case 12/12 ship time. I'm crossing my fingers.

Well its good news they will fix the pal issues since im sure all the pal users who upgrade from a hd+ will be upset if we go backwards. What i don't get is why the silence from dvdo people about this they just removed the 'shipping end of november' from their website and hope we won't notice ?

Be abit more open about these things please we can handle it trust me.

Daniel.

PS: and why does it have to be the 'avs' predefined 'two weeks' this aint funny :)

Sorry for discussing an HD+ topic on the VP30 thread. I will move it over if necessary.

The component input is analog. The DVI output is digital. There is no such thing as "passthrough" from component to DVI. The component signal must be digitized first. Unfortunately, the HD+ does not have enough horsepower to digitize a 720p or 1080i analog component signal. The VP30 will, however.

If you hook up the VGA output from the HD+ to your display, it will passthrough 720p to that output.

What i don't get is why the silence from dvdo people about this they just removed the 'shipping end of november' from their website and hope we won't notice ?

Be abit more open about these things please we can handle it trust me.

The decision to delay was apparently just made today. I'm sure everyone at DVDO has their hands full at the moment and hasn't had time to draft a press release and deliver it to you.

The decision to delay was apparently just made today. I'm sure everyone at DVDO has their hands full at the moment and hasn't had time to draft a press release and deliver it to you.

Well i guess i agree a little with you and i don't mean any harm, but dvdo people over time (well lets say the last few products) seem to ignore and skip alot of the questions about shipping on products and updates i just think its hurting them more than it does them good since the overal near perfect feedback on these forums.

Infact i pondered not posting the first message or deleting it but i won't since i feel i have a valid point and anyone who has been on this board knows its a sensitive topic with them and i don't see why.

Again as a pal user myself its better that they delayed that was not my point. If i am the only one with these feelings i am more than happy to say sorry...

Greetings,

Daniel.

OK..thanks much for the feedback on the iScan HD+ and XBOX360 question. That helps make my mind up about getting the VP30 since I only want to use a single cable from the scaler to the projector.

Josh or anyone...

Just getting my facts straight on the audio signal path. The audio from an HDMI input (cable, DVD, Blu-Ray) can be made to appear at, say, the optical out. The automatic audio delay function would kick in at this scenario. But if your video is coming in over SDI and your corresponding audio over optical (or coax), can you still take the audio in and have it appear at the optical or coax out, so as to, again, take advantage of the delay feature? If not, you'd still be stuck for an audio delay if you're using an SDI-modified DVD player.

Ted of course you can do that with the SDI and audio, everyone is doing that with their SDI dvd player right now

optical/coaxial into Iscan > delay > optical/coaxial out from Iscan

HDMI audio input will ONLY be output at optical/coaxial if the HDMI video/audio signal coming in does NOT have HDCP
like My Dish Network 942, I am going to be able to enjoy one cable input to the VP30(with optical/coaxial output) because it's HDMI output does not have HDCP enabled

-Gary

I guess I'm SOL then. I'll need to keep my digital audio switcher.

What is the processing delay associated with converting 720p (component) to 720P (HDMI)? I will be using my new VP30 with my XBOX 360. I currently convert 480p (component) to 480p (HDMI) on my current XBOX (with my iSCAN HD), but use the analog output for 720p or 1080i games. I was not intending to use the analog output of the VP30, unless there would be enough noticeable game delay in the transcoding from 720p component to HDMI (running to my projector).
The actual transcoding of analog 720p to digital 720p is close to zero delay (i.e., way less than a mS). The remainder of the video processing path will introduce some delay, which depends on how you have the iScan configured.

The least delay will be with the output frame-locked to the input, which is probably how you'll be running it. In this case, the delay is a bit less than half a frame period - i.e., about 7 or 8 mS. This delay is incurred so that the iScan can perform zoom and aspect ratio conversions without disturbing the output timing (which can cause your display to lose sync).

If you're converting the incoming frame rate to a different output frame rate, then there will be more delay incurred. This will vary, but will be on the order of 1 to 1.5 frame periods (or 16 to 25 mS).

- Dale Adams

Jason,

Just curious, but I saw on the DVDO site that they are including a "cable of choice" with their sales. Now possibly they are selling for more - but I was wondering if such a cable will be included in our power buy orders? If so, how do you wish to be notified of what we want? If not, never mind.

Ray

Ted of course you can do that...


Thanks.

:) just talked to DVDO sales - they are shipping the first units today - they said my September preorder should ship Tuesday - Wednesday at the latest. ;)

gee - who can you trust? since many here have been saying "call DVDO yourself," I did, and was told what I posted. Since the sales person told me that the units were being "shipped" as I spoke to him, I sort of thought that was what was in fact occuring.

Now, instead, they have "discovered" a flaw. Who discovered it? - the guys down in the UPS terminal, as they were handling all of the units "shipped" on Monday morning? Guys, dunno about you all, but we are getting awfully close to 1st quarter 2006 - if they drag this out a whole lot longer, I could be tempted to wait for a next gen product from another company. L

I'm crying now. It is true. They were about to ship them yesterday and discovered some bugs. Mostly PAL ones, but they decided it would be best to fix the issues. I'm SO sorry people. Anyways they are saying worst case 12/12 ship time. I'm crossing my fingers.

Un-frig'in-believable!

Again as a pal user myself its better that they delayed that was not my point. If i am the only one with these feelings i am more than happy to say sorry...

Greetings,

Daniel.

Nope, you're not the only one who felt this way, just the only one with guts enough to post it. ^_^ It can't help any of us keeping a delay a secret. If there really is a delay, I'm sure we'll hear from DVDO. I'm hoping it's just a rumor and the vp30 will still ship as expected(wishful thinking...).

Even though I'm a big fan of DVDO and on the pre-order for the VP30, I still say delay it or cancel it and just get us the new chip that Dale's been working on. The VP30 in October would have been a good hold over. The VP 30 in December/January is a lame duck imho.

The iScan VP30 has been delayed and 12/12 is a worst case scenario for initial shipping as Jason stated. He is correct about some PAL issues that are being corrected but while those are being worked on, we added a major feature which we planned on adding at a later date, we have moved the OSD to the output. This means that you can bring up the OSD while you have test patterns up, which makes picture control or output timing control adjustments easier, especially if you don't have the unit in front of you. This also means the OSD is unaffected by any aspect ratio control or borders that are used on the input. We are also fine-tuning a feature which many posters asked for:'HDMI A/V in - optical/coax audio out'.

Even though I'm a big fan of DVDO and on the pre-order for the VP30, I still say delay it or cancel it and just get us the new chip that Dale's been working on. The VP30 in October would have been a good hold over. The VP 30 in December/January is a lame duck imho.

Well i am still a big supporter of dvdo, i fully expect them todo well to us when the next
product is released. Its not that the other 'new' products are on time it just seems to be
the world of highend av. My comments where more aimed at (over time) the fact they made this a 'non topic' the result is (as we can see) big confusion among this community, people who lash out.

Daniel.

The iScan VP30 has been delayed and 12/12 is a worst case scenario for initial shipping as Jason stated. He is correct about some PAL issues that are being corrected but while those are being worked on, we added a major feature which we planned on adding at a later date, we have moved the OSD to the output. This means that you can bring up the OSD while you have test patterns up, which makes picture control or output timing control adjustments easier, especially if you don't have the unit in front of you. This also means the OSD is unaffected by any aspect ratio control or borders that are used on the input. We are also fine-tuning a feature which many posters asked for:'HDMI A/V in - optical/coax audio out'.

Thanks for the feedback, i admit i was a little fast with my comments but still feel they are valid. Its messages like this we 'hate' to read but can accept i guess its good to see that we are getting something extra in return :).

Also a question that is still open is how many units will be shipped ? Is the first batch enough to cover all pre-orders worldwide ?

Daniel.

JoshDVDO,

Thanks for the update and thanks for informing us of the "new" features that you are enhancing while you work on the PAL issues, keeping the customer informed is good step in keeping a customer satisfied. Delay in first shipments of a new product are going to happen, and this is just one aspect of PRE-ordering, afterall the calendar fall of 2005 does not officially end until the first day of winter. I also know that on some marketing calendars the first day of fall ends 1 January.

The actual transcoding of analog 720p to digital 720p is close to zero delay (i.e., way less than a mS). The remainder of the video processing path will introduce some delay, which depends on how you have the iScan configured.

The least delay will be with the output frame-locked to the input, which is probably how you'll be running it. In this case, the delay is a bit less than half a frame period - i.e., about 7 or 8 mS. This delay is incurred so that the iScan can perform zoom and aspect ratio conversions without disturbing the output timing (which can cause your display to lose sync).

If you're converting the incoming frame rate to a different output frame rate, then there will be more delay incurred. This will vary, but will be on the order of 1 to 1.5 frame periods (or 16 to 25 mS).

Dale, are the processing times for SD content (480i, 480p, 576i, 576p) any different with the new scaling engine than they were with the HD+?

I ask because I will be forced to route some of my audio directly to my receiver due to the VP30s limited inputs, so I'll need to manually set delay times there.

Josh,

I'm 200% willing to wait a couple of weeks if you guys get the HDMI+HDCP --> S/PDIF thing worked out. That was a real show-stopper for me.

Unrelated question -- you mentioned that 1080p pass-through is not supported at this time. Is this a hardware limit or something that can be addressed later with a s/w upgrade? I.e. will it be there before the PS3 comes out?

;)

Thanks again!

-John

Unrelated question -- you mentioned that 1080p pass-through is not supported at this time. Is this a hardware limit or something that can be addressed later with a s/w upgrade? I.e. will it be there before the PS3 comes out?


This is not a hardware limitation and can be addressed in a future software update.

Josh,

I'm 200% willing to wait a couple of weeks if you guys get the HDMI+HDCP --> S/PDIF thing worked out. That was a real show-stopper for me.

Thanks again!

-John

Ditto to that! I too am willing to wait on my pre-order unit.

Shake1

thanks for the update josh i appreciate the clarification about the audio problem. please keep us informed as best as possible i know you must be busy getting ready for the launch. thanks again
-rob

Jason,

Is there any way for AVS preorder buyers to have the unit ship directly from DVDO? I live in Northern California, that would mean my unit would ship to New York then back to California.
I would like to know this, too. I would not mind a direct shipment or a personal pickup from/to DVDO. Will CA residents be free from sales tax if the units are to be shipped from CA to NY and back to CA?


Jason,

Just curious, but I saw on the DVDO site that they are including a "cable of choice" with their sales. Now possibly they are selling for more - but I was wondering if such a cable will be included in our power buy orders? If so, how do you wish to be notified of what we want? If not, never mind.

I asked Jason about this last October and unfortunately the free cable offer does not apply to AVS preorders. :( It would have been a nice gesture if we got a free cable to make up for the shipping delay.

Dale, are the processing times for SD content (480i, 480p, 576i, 576p) any different with the new scaling engine than they were with the HD+?
No. Any differences are very, very minor.

- Dale Adams

This is not a hardware limitation and can be addressed in a future software update.

Sounds like there will be some sweet software update goodness in the coming months.

On that note: Anyone have experience doing said software updates off of a Mac running Virtual PC? I've had success with a USB serial adapter and my PowerBook using VirtualPC to load maps onto a Garmin GPS, so I'm feeling optimistic. I downloaded the Tera Term Pro and have it installed onto my virtual Windows XP Pro 'box'...just wondering if anyone can vouch that this will work?

no problem on the delay from me
Wait!! am I behind on things here??, is the VP30 going to be able to pass spdif digital output from HDCP HDMI input??

-Gary

no problem on the delay from me
Wait!! am I behind on things here??, is the VP30 going to be able to pass spdif digital output from HDCP HDMI input??

-Gary
That's the way I have been reading the latest postings from Josh@dvdo. I know there was some speculation about earlier on.

that would be sweet!!, although I currently have no HMDI sources with HDCP you never know when I will want one :D

-Gary

OK. Probably a stupid question, but what is OSD?

OK. Probably a stupid question, but what is OSD?

OSD = "On Screen Display" for the scaler settings.

-- Rich

Hey, I'm in the VP30 game! Thanks Jason!

After watching a DVD the other night and switching back to DTV afterwards, I was literally shocked at the image quality disparity. It's becoming way obvious that DTV is compressing the bee-jeezus out of ED material and frankly, I'm surprised it took me this long to notice it. Time to jump on the DTV-HD bandwagon with the perfectly-timed release of MPEG-4 signals to the SF Bay Area.

This news has prompted me to finally replace everything in my modest HT including the Sony KE-42TS2 plasma display, DVP-S550P dvdp, SAT-A65 stb, and quite possibly the STR-DB930 receiver (I luuuuuuv this receiver though - would be difficult to remove from the main HT). I've been auditioning a lot of goodies and am happy to be starting w/ the iScan VP30. It begs the question for inquiring minds,

How are you guys and gals going to be integrating your receivers/pre-pros with the VP30? Obviously, most of you will be integrating your video sources with various component/HDMI, but what about all the powerful and/or high end audio bits?

Thanks in advance for your input.

-bd

Bd, just so you know, Directv doesn't provide true HDTV, they provide HD lite which is 1280x1080i
seek a provider that sends true 1920x1080i HDTV, like Dish Network or Cable

-Gary

HDMI audio input will ONLY be output at optical/coaxial if the HDMI video/audio signal coming in does NOT have HDCP


well, since those guys in Calibre is able to output audio via optical/coaxial even when the HDMI in is HDCP, I'm sure DVDO can do the same. (I see Josh was hinting something...am I right ?)

didn't get a response on this, so thought I would re-post in the hope of some answers.

Thanks, then I am not sure that the profiles are going to solve my issue. Some quick questions on profiles:-

1) I can create these profiles myself right?
2) Is there a limit to the number of profiles?
3) How do I name them?
4) Can these profiles be associated with the outputs or only inputs?
5) I can't remember what the remote looks like, does it have buttons for each output, and if so, which settings does it use when I switch outputs?

If the answers to (4) and (5) are not YES, the profiles will still be not much use to me, since the output is fixed in the profile, unless I can create a total of 10 profiles (2 outputs x 5 sources). Even then, I will still need to create remote macros for each remote function (e.g. Watch TV on projector) to go through the VP30 menus switching profiles (and have them flash on the screen) every time I change function. Right or am I missing something?

Assuming the VP30 works the same way the HD+ does:


1) I can create these profiles myself right?

Yes. You just enter the resolution settings you want and save it to a profile.

2) Is there a limit to the number of profiles?

The HD+ has 4.

3) How do I name them?

They are already named: Profile 1, Profile 2, Profile 3, and Profile 4.

4) Can these profiles be associated with the outputs or only inputs?

How would the scaler know which output you want to use unless you select the related profile first?

5) I can't remember what the remote looks like, does it have buttons for each output, and if so, which settings does it use when I switch outputs?

To switch outputs (or profiles) on the HD+ requires a few button pushes. This can be navigated using the OSD or the unit's LED front display. The only automated profile switching occurs if you associate a specific video input with a specific profile that will always be used with it (you don't have to do this if you don't want to).

Am I correct in assuming that thge VP30 will not pass through and/or transcode HTPC resolutions such as 1368x768?
That seems a shame because it would require me to use an external DVI/HDMI switcher to be able to hook up my HTPC and the VP30.
Is this due to a hardware limitation?

Bd, just so you know, Directv doesn't provide true HDTV, they provide HD lite which is 1280x1080i
seek a provider that sends true 1920x1080i HDTV, like Dish Network or Cable

-Gary

I know Gary, and I'm prepared to settle for HD lite because I'm heavily dependant upon DTVs sports programming. Dish? Nahhhh. Cable?!? Not in a million years. No offense to cable subscribers, but it just doesn't get any more crooked than Comcast.

I'm banking on DTVs HD philosophy changing as their capacities increase. Color me stupid maybe, but I've been a long time DTV subscriber and still feel an allegience to them. They've treated me well, with the exception of this frustrating compression issue, and I'm looking forward to a little PQ assistance from DVDO. ;)

-bd

Im sorry - probably a simple question but I do not understand.

The website says it 'scales' 1080i input. Other some of the other inputs (like 480i) it says it scales and deinterlaces.

My TV is a Sharp AQUOS 45 GX model that I feed 1080 Direct into it.

Does the DVDO take 1080i (say from my cable box) and convert it to 1080p?

Thanks

Frank

Since the HD+ can output 1080P I would think the VP30 should be able to output 1080P.

their website says it does... i know the hd+ does... can't wait until they finally ship them.

Im sorry - probably a simple question but I do not understand.

The website says it 'scales' 1080i input. Other some of the other inputs (like 480i) it says it scales and deinterlaces.

My TV is a Sharp AQUOS 45 GX model that I feed 1080 Direct into it.

Does the DVDO take 1080i (say from my cable box) and convert it to 1080p?

Thanks

Frank


Frank, YES, it does. I have the same setup you have and I feed 1080p directly into the Sharp panel. I am presently using the HD+ to accomplish this. It takes all the HD resolutions and converts them to 1080p. The VP30 will output 1080p also. I have confirmed this with Josh at DVDO. The only thing that it will NOT do with the initial software release is to pass-thru a 1080p signal but I heard this will be added at a later date.

Abbas

Abbas, (and others) thanks. Im sold.

Would you say the HD+ makes a big material diff in the aquos?

I don't suppose any could answer this question about the VP30?

I was assured by DVDO that the VP30 would have seperate assignable parameters for each frequency on each input. So I could assign profile 1 to 50Hz on my DVD input and profile 2 to 60Hz on the same input. However, seeing the manual I can't see any mention of multiple frequencies having different settings - unless I missed it.

I have emailed them a couple of times but had nothing back. Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks
Mark

Mark

I think the Iscan's can do what you are wanting

-Gary

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6642848#post6642848

Thanks Gary. From what I can make out they have a feature not described in the manual. Basically, it has a different set of parameters for each resolution on each input. On each set you can assign a different profile. The way it was described to me before was slightly different with frequencies but it makes sense now :)

Seems they have a few PAL issues but I recall that was the case on the iScan as well. Fingers crossed...

Abbas, (and others) thanks. Im sold.

Would you say the HD+ makes a big material diff in the aquos?


Simply put, YES!
My SD channels in my opinion (and my wife) were almost non-watchable compared to my previous EDTV plasma TV with the AVC alone. I have been extremely satisfied with the HD+. The only downside is that it does not work with HD signals over analog lines. That meant that my xbox/xbox360 had to be plugged into the AVC versus the HD+ so that I could play in HD. Fortunetly, this feature has been added to the VP30.

I would say that switching between the AVC and HD+ is a bit tricky with Aquos Panel. I have mine setup with a DVI switcher. All switching is done thru a remote control. The system is entirely 'wife proof'.

Abbas

I would like to get the opinion of the well informed folks who visit this thread solely. I have read many discussions on this thread that have gone right over my head and I feel like I know a good amount so maybe one of those experts could take a look:

I am looking for an informed opinion to help make the biggest improvement with my tv pic. Which would accomplish a larger pic improvement; the DVDO VP30 or the digital mosquito? My situation is this: I have a cable feed that contains HD programming as well as SD programming. I am very much into sports. There is no particular thing that is annoying me most with my feed (I see some digital noise but it is not overwhelming as well as having a SD pic that kinda sucks- both could use improvement).

An important aspect is my monitor. I am using a Sammy HLR 6768 1080p DLP set. There is no way to turn off the internal scaling device and it will not accept anything over 1080i as in input.

So, would the new VP30 really do anything if my 1080p DLP takes an already scaled signal from the VP30 and breaks it down and then rescales it again? If it does, would the impact of mosquito still be more significant? I understand that in the best of worlds I would home audition all of this equipment but that won’t happen. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

So to sum it up again, would the two work best together? Will the digital mosquito make a bigger difference? And specifically, is the VP30 really going to do anything for me? Thanks, Matt

Abbas:


That is a good question about the 1080p passthrough. What will happen when the HD-DVD players are out next year?

Would we have to have a geffen box that splits the VP30 and the HD-DVD player and inputs directly into the panel?

That also brings up a point that we were talking about a year ago. Someone, maybe Pheonix, was saying that they had a firmware update to better scale his standard definition signals in the AVC box. Have you heard anything else about that? My SD is awful !! I am sitting on the edge of my seat waiting on the VP30......just to clear up my SD.


Also, does anyone know when the VP30 is shipping? The website had said "end of November" but I haven't heard anything at all, even after prepaying.


Thanks.

Sawyer

Abbas:

Also, does anyone know when the VP30 is shipping? The website had said "end of November" but I haven't heard anything at all, even after prepaying.

Sawyer

According to Jason they should begin shipping 12/12/05.

Well, I just cought up on the 'news' of the delay.......where the bug was detected by the UPS man.....

The CES is a month away.......it would be pretty bad form to see all the competition and not have the VP30 out by then.

It was the CES last year when the DVDO rep told me the 'xHD' (now the VP30) would be available in June 2006.


Frustrating.


Off the delay subject.

I was curious about all of this advertising of 1080p HDTV's that are coming out, including the HD4 DLP chips.

Which, if any, will ACCEPT a 1080p signal, besides the Sharp LC-45GX6U mainlined into the panel at 1920 x 1080 at 60hz ??

I know that the Sony Qualia KDS70Q006 LCos 1080p Rear projection will NOT accept the 1080p, but the same chip in the Qualia front projector will accept 1920 x 1080p at 24hz.

Does anyone know about the JVC 1080p D-ILA sets? And the DLP sets?


It's funny how they are all advertising 1080p but that is really irrevelent if they won't accept 1080p when HD-DVD is just around the corner.

Texas Instruments infers that the DLP sets will accept 1080p in their adds, where the claim, "movies, games and broadcasts are moving to 1080p......game consoles and DVDs will increasingly move toward 1920 x 1080p resolution."

BUT....if you look under the specifications (http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?sHist=12-79%2c6-529&menu=true&id=28341) of the Mitsubishi 52" DLP, it doesn't list 1080p as one of its input capabilities.


Any poor bastard that goes into Best Buy and buys a "1080p HDTV" such as the Sharp LC-45GD4U or the Samsung 46" LCD will be S.O.L.



Sawyer

agony, i want my vp30... tired of waiting. i hope they will fix the 1080p passthrough. but for now i just would liket the unit and patches later.

too bad they wouldn't sourcecode some of the firmware :) too much legal stuff though i guess

All current indications are that although both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will store their content at 1080p, the first-gen players will only be capable of output at 720p or 1080i.

HD-DVD has already stated that their players will only output in 1080i.

Abbas:


That is a good question about the 1080p passthrough. What will happen when the HD-DVD players are out next year?

Would we have to have a geffen box that splits the VP30 and the HD-DVD player and inputs directly into the panel?

That also brings up a point that we were talking about a year ago. Someone, maybe Pheonix, was saying that they had a firmware update to better scale his standard definition signals in the AVC box. Have you heard anything else about that? My SD is awful !! I am sitting on the edge of my seat waiting on the VP30......just to clear up my SD.


Also, does anyone know when the VP30 is shipping? The website had said "end of November" but I haven't heard anything at all, even after prepaying.


Thanks.

Sawyer

Sawyer, I have not heard of any firmware upgrade that will enhance SD signals. There is the firmware upgrade if you have 'clayface' issues but that is it.

As for the VP30 passing thru 1080p signal, Josh said that is something they will add in at a later date. I plan on ordering a PS3 once available and that would be a great feature to have since the PS3 will output 1080p. I am curious to know if it will also play movies at 1080p?

I will be CES this year. Hopefully, I can see the Blu-Ray players or/and PS3 in action.

Abbas

How do you think DVDO will go about the upgrade to passthrough 1080p? Would you have to ship your unit in and wait to get it back or would they send a new one, and then ship yours.....so as not to go without?

I've always heard DVDO is good about the upgrade routine.

How do you think DVDO will go about the upgrade to passthrough 1080p? Would you have to ship your unit in and wait to get it back or would they send a new one, and then ship yours.....so as not to go without?

I've always heard DVDO is good about the upgrade routine.

It will be software they already told us this and several other things that where asked a while back are not limited by the current hardware.

Daniel.

I would think we would be able to upgrade it like the HD/HD+. You just need a pc and a serial cable.

and a pc with a serial port? great - fire up the old p3...:(

....Or get a USB-to-serial adapter

cool - THAT would probably be a touch easier. Tho what do I need for horsepower, OS, etc to do an upgrade? I do have a P3 laptop with serial port - just running win98, but if that would work, it would be nice to have something useful for it to do. thanks

....Or get a USB-to-serial adapter

Mac too or pc only for upgrades?

I have not done an update with a Mac, but we do have customers that use VirtualPC to update their iScan HD/HD+s.

What is the eventual plan for HDCP? It seems to me that eventually every source component and projector will be HDCP-required - at that point will be just not be able to use video scalers anymore?

Or are the HDCP people planning on letting video scalers decode HDCP eventually?

What is the eventual plan for HDCP? It seems to me that eventually every source component and projector will be HDCP-required - at that point will be just not be able to use video scalers anymore?

Or are the HDCP people planning on letting video scalers decode HDCP eventually?

Someone will surely provide a more eloquent and technically correct response, but the short answer is that video processors can currently scale and otherwise process content encoded with HDCP. The only limitation on manufacturers is that a processor that receives HDCP encoded content not strip that encoding from the processed signal. In other words, HDCP in = HDCP out. That's why non-HDMI / DVI outputs are disabled when an HDCP signal is received.

Hope this helps a bit.

I have not done an update with a Mac, but we do have customers that use VirtualPC to update their iScan HD/HD+s.
I use a Mac to update my iScan. :)

StooMonster

Good to hear Mac success stories--I'd posted a question to that effect a few days ago and was getting worried that the lack of a response was not boding well. I assume proper serial port emulation using a USB-to-serial adapter in VirtualPC should work then, huh? Sweetness.

One of my concerns about the VP30 I ordered was if they will allow other VGA pass resolutions pass through or scale besides the standards (VGA, XGA, etc). My Xbox 360 outputs through VGA at 1280x720 and various other resolutions.

Current specs say the VP30 won't support this at all, right?

From what I can tell, none of the Xbox 360 games come in a Wide-VESA resolution (they are ATSC resolutions, 720p or 1080i). Given this, the best output for the Xbox 360 would be 1280x720 (720p), which the iScan VP30 can accept and process on its RGBHV input. If the Xbox 360 is set to any of the other VESA resolutions (1024x768, 1280x768, 1280x1024, 1360x768) then the Xbox is going to scale the 720p signal to these output resolutions.

none of the Xbox 360 games come in a Wide-VESA
OK, since you mentioned it...

One of the two reasons I didn't pre-order a VP30 was concern about how it will work with my Wide-VESA display. Its native resolution is WUXGA (1920x1200), which is slightly taller than standard 1080p (1920x1080).

Can a VP30 be made to work well with this display for both widescreen and 4:3 content? After reading online DVDO manuals, it seems the idea is to set the aspect ratio on the VP30 to match my display at 16:10 and then set the output height to 1200px, but VP30 doesn't support a vertical resolution greater than 1080 pixels, it seems.

So I would work around that by setting widescreen material to output at 1080p to be letterboxed by my display, and SD 4:3 material to output at 800x600, so my display could double the resolution to 1600x1200 and then pillarbox it. If I just left the output always at 1080p, though, 4:3 content would end up pillarboxed (by the VP30) and letterboxed (by my display). But the 800x600 trick is a dirty hack, and that content wouldn't be scaled as smoothly -- I don't trust the scaler in my display very much.

Might you support WUXGA or other Wide-VESA resolutions sometime soon? Could it be a software update? These displays are only becoming more popular (they're usually sold as computer monitors). The Dell 2405FPW (which I have) and the Apple 23" Cinema HD display are both pretty affordable and common. They make pretty good computer/HT/videogame combo monitors, or they would with a decent video processor (hint).

(BTW, the other reason I didn't pre-order was concern about passthrough of unrecognized resolutions over HDMI. For example, my computer's WUXGA DVI output. When you distribute the 1080p passthrough update, consider allowing passthrough of any HDMI signal the VP30 can't process.)

Hello folks, I'm new to processors and could use some help.

I have Meridian 598 DVD (Progressive Component) and a Pioneer 5060 Plasma

If I added the SDI mod to the 598 which upconverter makes sense?

1) http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI-SDI.html

2) iScan HD w/ SDI

3) Or the VP30

If all I want to do is upsample the DVD player on a 50" Plasma is the VP30 over kill?

Does the Pioneer Plasma require HCDP and that put the iScan HD out of the picture?

What does DVDO do that the cheapo SDI to DVI converter not do?

Thanks

Concerning the Xbox, I have read elsewhere that Microsoft is most likely going to release a HDMI cable set pak in the future, that would be sweet into the VP30 :) and would free up a audio input I need

-Gary

Hello folks, I'm new to processors and could use some help.

I have Meridian 598 DVD (Progressive Component) and a Pioneer 5060 Plasma

If I added the SDI mod to the 598 which upconverter makes sense?

1) http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI-SDI.html

2) iScan HD w/ SDI

3) Or the VP30

If all I want to do is upsample the DVD player on a 50" Plasma is the VP30 over kill?

Does the Pioneer Plasma require HCDP and that put the iScan HD out of the picture?

What does DVDO do that the cheapo SDI to DVI converter not do?

Thanks

Why not a vp30 with sdi. you indeed also need to add the sdi option to your drive. It will have a effect for sure how much depends on many things. Use the search function to see if people with your tv are using a scaler and think it has any effect.

Daniel.

Little change of topic/aside--'old school' tech question here. Wondering what kind of PQ improvement/enhancement I might expect on a composite or S-video Laserdisc (a mid-range Marantz btw) running through the VP30? I know DVDO outboard will scale, but will it do any noise filtering of the analog signal or otherwise help the overall picture quality? I've no experience (obviously) with what a true difference a line-doubler/processor makes with older hardware/imagery.

Hoping to make my Blade Runner/Star Wars original cut LDs more pleasant to watch...

Why not a vp30 with sdi. you indeed also need to add the sdi option to your drive. It will have a effect for sure how much depends on many things. Use the search function to see if people with your tv are using a scaler and think it has any effect.

Daniel.

vp30 was implied with SDI

I'm also considering going with a Panasonic S77 with 1080i HDMI output.

Shane, one tiny tiny this that bothers me just a wee bit is that fact that the Iscan's only have a 2D comb filter, a nice 4 MB 3D comb filter gives that last smidge of better picture quality we can get out of LD, I wish the VP30 had one

I have my LD player up and running still for neat Music LD's like stuff from Yngwie and Santana, there is so much neat content on LD that no media room should be without one ;)

-Gary

Gone through an SXRD and a 50PX500 to return to an LCD FP at 1080P at a smaller size but preferable for my sunlit room conditions. Not trashing the other two panels but I really prefer the Aquous and it seems that this device could take it to perfection. SD is fine but so inferior to my HD I avoid it at all costs but my SD is better on the Aquous than it was on the other two panels but sucks after getting used to 1080i in 16:9.

My question is to the first owner (Guinea Pigs) of this product to please post results here and perhaps the 45" Sharp Owners Thread. I've already lost significant money auditioning two panels and selling them at a loss to go with the Sharp and I sure want to know that this thing delivers before committing upwards of another $2K. I'll gladly go with this to refine and take my panel to 1080P if in fact it delivers. So many cable channels are migrating to HD so damn slowly that this device seems to provide the missing link for the Holy Grail we speak of on this forum constantly. Then I'm only left with waiting for the 57" Sharp next spring and that's perfect size for my HT.

Will wait and watch but it would be nice if the Sharp owners could have something positive posted as it seems to be the whipping post in the FP Forum even though it constantly gets used as the Bar to measure against. If what Mr. Mercer says is true about dropping half the verticle lines of 1080i will this product not only correct this will it take it to true 1080P and refine SD Cable?

Will look forward to the new VP30 owners feedback. (Especially Sharp owners) :D

"If the incoming HDMI signal has HDCP, then the iScan VP30 can not output this audio using the optical or coaxial digital outputs, only the HDMI output."

Since we will presumably be hooking up our Blu-Ray players via HDMI, how do we then get the audio signal to our pre/pros? Do I now have to buy a pre/pro with HDMI inputs?

Since we will presumably be hooking up our Blu-Ray players via HDMI, how do we then get the audio signal to our pre/pros? Do I now have to buy a pre/pro with HDMI inputs?

I've been waiting on this answer for some time now. I think DVDO should be able to answer this question since they are shipping units.

I was all set to buy this thing, too...

I was all set to buy this thing, too...

I went thru this a month or two ago. End result was, if HDCP is required on HDMI - then the audio would only come out via hdmi. But as was explained to me, was a pretty big duh moment - if audio is only hdmi, then yes, duh, I will need an hdmi pre/pro. Just like we had to upgrade when we went to DD, and again when DTS came out. If audio is ONLY over HDMI, everyone will need HDMI pre/pros - not just the folks buying a VP30.

talk to the hdcp folks. It isn't Lumagen or DVDOs idea.

I was all set to buy this thing, too...

My more impatient side says just get the iScan+ & send everything via DVI, since every HDMI capable DVD player that I've seen has an option to output only video via HDMI and then send the audio via Optical.

But my patient side says it would be a lot better to send everything via one HDMI output to the DVDO and let the unit split off the audio to make sure it syncs properly. Plus the iScan+ only has 1 DVI input - limiting its use substantially.

So until I found out a definitive answer I will hold my cash close and search for another company that is willing to take my money. If that's DVDO great!

If audio is ONLY over HDMI, everyone will need HDMI pre/pros - not just the folks buying a VP30.

Exactly what I've been hearing - except will the Sony (e.g. Blue Ray) require the audio sent to a seperate processor to then output the signal via HDMI?

I know now that many DVD players will allow you to send the audio via Optical and the video via HDMI, but can DVDO also do that regardless of how the signal comes to it? Some people have put big bucks into equipment that doesn't have an HDMI input, the DVDO could solve the problem for a lot less money than replacing a $15,000 pre-amp.

I never win, damnit. The only reason I was looking here was the Anthem doesn't offer an SDI input. Then I get here, the price/features look good, and I learn I need a new pre/pro. Can I get one break? Just one?

Gone through an SXRD and a 50PX500 to return to an LCD FP at 1080P at a smaller size but preferable for my sunlit room conditions. Not trashing the other two panels but I really prefer the Aquous and it seems that this device could take it to perfection. SD is fine but so inferior to my HD I avoid it at all costs but my SD is better on the Aquous than it was on the other two panels but sucks after getting used to 1080i in 16:9.

My question is to the first owner (Guinea Pigs) of this product to please post results here and perhaps the 45" Sharp Owners Thread. I've already lost significant money auditioning two panels and selling them at a loss to go with the Sharp and I sure want to know that this thing delivers before committing upwards of another $2K. I'll gladly go with this to refine and take my panel to 1080P if in fact it delivers. So many cable channels are migrating to HD so damn slowly that this device seems to provide the missing link for the Holy Grail we speak of on this forum constantly. Then I'm only left with waiting for the 57" Sharp next spring and that's perfect size for my HT.

Will wait and watch but it would be nice if the Sharp owners could have something positive posted as it seems to be the whipping post in the FP Forum even though it constantly gets used as the Bar to measure against. If what Mr. Mercer says is true about dropping half the verticle lines of 1080i will this product not only correct this will it take it to true 1080P and refine SD Cable?

Will look forward to the new VP30 owners feedback. (Especially Sharp owners) :D


Westa6969,

I own the GX version of the 45" Sharp panel. With the HD+, there is a very definite improvement in the SD. Atleast there was for me using Directv. Since the VP30 is based on the HD+, then it should also give you the same improvement. The improvement is very noticeable and it looks very good. I was extremely happy with the output quality.

The only problem connecting the HD+/VP30 to that particular Sharp model for me is what output setting to use. Since it only accepts a 1080i or 720p HD signal, would you set the VP30 on 720 output or 1080i. The TV would have scale it to 1080p. The GD model does NOT accept a 1080p source.

My recommendation is if it is still possible for you to change your GD unit to the GX model that has the external AVC. With GX model, you can feed 1080p directly into panel and bypass the AVC box. In this situation, your HD+/VP30 will always be set to 1080p. The DVDO will do all the scaling.

Abbas

I've been waiting on this answer for some time now. I think DVDO should be able to answer this question since they are shipping units.

The iScan VP30 CAN output audio over the optical and coaxial outputs, from an HDMI input source. In regards to a BD player, you will want an A/V receiver or PreAmp/Processor with an HDMI input to get the most of the audio. The new Dolby and dts formats cannot be output over coaxial or optical. The optical and coaxial outputs of the VP30 will be able to output a 5.1 DD or 5.1/6.1 dts signal but nothing more.

Josh,

You 'da man!

And to further elaborate on the newer formats -- it is my understanding that there simply isn't enough bandwidth on the existing S/PDIF specification to transmit anything beyond the data rate of 48khz/20bit (or is it 24bit?), so anything with a higher bandwidth requirement than that is out. This would include any of the new "HD Surround" formats that use lossless encoders like MLP.

So it isn't a DVDO limitation on the new formats, it's the hardware interface itself!

I would hope that Sony, etc. would at least offer a full multi-channel analog out for the new BD players for the 99.9% of us that don't have an HDMI-ready receiver or processor. However, they have made dumber product decisions (think: rootkit CDs.), so you never know. In any event, I hope at least they offer on-the-fly downconversion to dts 1.5mbps or DD 640k, which would be fine by me. I doubt I'd hear the difference anyway on most movie soundtracks.

-John

The iScan VP30 CAN output audio over the optical and coaxial outputs, from an HDMI input source. In regards to a BD player, you will want an A/V receiver or PreAmp/Processor with an HDMI input to get the most of the audio. The new Dolby and dts formats cannot be output over coaxial or optical. The optical and coaxial outputs of the VP30 will be able to output a 5.1 DD or 5.1/6.1 dts signal but nothing more.

So to be 100% clear, you are saying a pre-amp W/OUT an HDMI input can receive audio via the DVDO's Optical output from ANY HDMI source fed to the DVDO.

Any source that's not next-gen.

Any source that's not next-gen.

This is why this so annoying. Even after 38 pages of discussions, no one can write one post that definitively answers everyone's questions about how to get audio into the DVDO and out for all situations.

I long for the old days when a phonograph had two wires, and if you could see color you could plug them into any receiver ever made and the darn thing worked.

I don't blame DVDO - they don't make the spec. This whole thing is about copy protection, but when Blue Ray comes out - limits us from using the signals the way we want to - and then one week later some 17yr old geek busts the code wide open and distributes every movie via the Internet I'm going to have a nice long laugh at Sony's expense (which I did when they busted the DVD copy protection in 3 weeks after Sony said it was impregnable).

--SimpleTheater

I long for the old days, too... some of it. But isn't having software avaliable that is virtually indistinguishable from its source master worth a bit of headache?

On second thought, maybe it isn't. I did just fine with cassettes back in the day.

With regards to HDMI audio from a source, such as a Blue Ray DVD or HD DVD. I was under the impression, and correct if I am wrong, that audio via HDMI will be DTS and DD until the 1.3 HDMI specifications and chips are out, which will be some time for now, like 1 year. Until then audio via HDMI will be DTS and DD, am I wrong? If I have my memory wrong, please feel free to correct.

If this is the case, then the VP30 should be able to supply the needed audio capacity until the 1.3 HDMI chips are out.

Just my thoughts.

Josh, can you please tell us some more about ABT's Precision Video Scaling II technology? And how this is different to the old Precision Video Scaling?

StooMonster

Stuart - The major difference between PVSI and PVSII is that the PVSII is 10-bit, whereas PVSI is 9-bit. PVSII also offers the ability to have enhanced sharpness controls and non-linear stretch.

Josh Allen,
Any update on shipping?

Stuart - The major difference between PVSI and PVSII is that the PVSII is 10-bit, whereas PVSI is 9-bit. PVSII also offers the ability to have enhanced sharpness controls and non-linear stretch.
Josh, I meant over and above what the website says. ;) e.g. does it have more taps in its sampling process? If so, how many? How many does PVSI have anyway? That kind of stuff. :)

Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity described PVSI as "a world class scaling engine. This scaling engine was made right in house at DVDO by the co-founder and very well may be the best one I have seen to date.".

Is there anything -- not commercially sensitive -- that you can tell us about how PVS works, that makes it so good?

StooMonster

Josh Allen,
Any update on shipping?


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=611633

OK - I have to ask. I have searched the thread, but couldn't find a definite, official reply to it. There's some confusion as to how the VP30 will handle a 1080i input signal, on another forum I'm at.

So the question is:

Can the VP30 deinterlace a 1080i input signal, and output it as 1080p?

Westa6969,

The only problem connecting the HD+/VP30 to that particular Sharp model for me is what output setting to use. Since it only accepts a 1080i or 720p HD signal, would you set the VP30 on 720 output or 1080i. The TV would have scale it to 1080p. The GD model does NOT accept a 1080p source.

My recommendation is if it is still possible for you to change your GD unit to the GX model that has the external AVC. With GX model, you can feed 1080p directly into panel and bypass the AVC box. In this situation, your HD+/VP30 will always be set to 1080p. The DVDO will do all the scaling.

Abbas
My confusion lies in this statement direct from their website ---
Sharp 45GD5U (and it is the latest model):

Full HDTV Spec (1920 x 1080)

displays HDTV program images in 1080p and is compatible with off-air (terrestrial), cable and satellite HDTV broadcasts.2
To me it should work like the SXRD as it also has the same difficulty but will display to it's native resolution of 1080P doesn't the Sharp do the same thing. How can Sharp post the set as 1080P as I quoted above if it does not do 1080P since it's not designed as an HTPC device?

To keep on thread with this VP30 my hopes would be that this device fills the gap and rightfully so it should at an additional $2K shouldn't it? I'd like the DVDO folks to confirm this or else why bother? No, I cannot return it I'm actually very happy with it and prefer the all black as it add's pop to the PQ in daytime and disappears at night, it's a very nice looking Panel on/off. If this thing can refine everything else like SD and Digital Channels and takes the display truly to 1080P then I'm committed if the VP30 cannot make it display 1080P there wouldn't be a reason to spend an additional $2K would there? Thanks :)

westa6969 - The statement from their website is correct. The Sharp 45GD5U will display a 1080p signal, and it is compatible with (current) off-air (terrestrial), cable and satellite HDTV broadcasts. Your display is one of many 1080p displays that will not accept a digital (and in your case, analog) 1080p input. I agree that this is NOT how it should be, but this is how it is. Read more here: http://www.electronichouse.com/columns/industryadvice/5227.html

We believe that the iScan VP30 will give you a better picture than the internal processing in your display and we stand behind our product with a 30-day 'No Quibble' return policy (when you purchase directly from www.dvdo.com). Of course having all of the addtional features of the VP30 is nice, too.

Can the VP30 deinterlace a 1080i input signal, and output it as 1080p?
The iScan VP30 can not deinterlace a 1080i signal, it field-scales (Bobs) a 1080i signal and outputs it as 1080p.

Oh No! Westa is going to change out his HD set again!

In reading the article at Electronic House: http://www.electronichouse.com/columns/industryadvice/5227.html

The JVC HD2K is one of the few projectors that will accept a 1080P signal. I have been unhappy with the lack of inputs and outputs on the Faroudja 1010 processor that comes bundled with this projector.

Will DVDO work with the JVC HD2k and will there be any improvement in quality of high defintition signals from DirecTV or 480i signals from Pioneer DVD player with HDMI ?

Clearly the DVDO has more inputs although I will need an HDMI to DVI converter, as the DVDO seems to only have HDMI out.

Oh No! Westa is going to change out his HD set again!

I finally know someone who swaps out TVs faster than me - I have been changing
TVs at the rate of one per year or less over the last few years.

But one a week certainly has me beat :-)

My confusion lies in this statement direct from their website ---
Sharp 45GD5U (and it is the latest model):

Full HDTV Spec (1920 x 1080)

displays HDTV program images in 1080p and is compatible with off-air (terrestrial), cable and satellite HDTV broadcasts.2
To me it should work like the SXRD as it also has the same difficulty but will display to it's native resolution of 1080P doesn't the Sharp do the same thing. How can Sharp post the set as 1080P as I quoted above if it does not do 1080P since it's not designed as an HTPC device?

To keep on thread with this VP30 my hopes would be that this device fills the gap and rightfully so it should at an additional $2K shouldn't it? I'd like the DVDO folks to confirm this or else why bother? No, I cannot return it I'm actually very happy with it and prefer the all black as it add's pop to the PQ in daytime and disappears at night, it's a very nice looking Panel on/off. If this thing can refine everything else like SD and Digital Channels and takes the display truly to 1080P then I'm committed if the VP30 cannot make it display 1080P there wouldn't be a reason to spend an additional $2K would there? Thanks :)

Westa6969 - I had the same complaint as you with the Sharp panel. I called their support and they said that since there is nothing that outputs at 1080p, their TVs will not accept 1080p. I told them that I wanted to hook it up to a DVDO scaler and bypass the internal scaler. The support guy just wouldnt understand why I wanted to this.
They are not lying to you when they say it is a 1080p TV because it is. It does its own scaling to 1080p. Problem is that it does not accept a 1080p source unless you have the GX model and work around the AVC.
As of right now, as far as I know, the JVC HD2k projector, Qulia 004 with the R2 modification, Epson 1080p DLP, and the Sharp GX model (with bypassing the AVC) are the only TV's that accept 1080p60. It think the new Sony Ruby projector also accepts 1080p but I am not sure. The Qualia 005 and 006 do NOT accept 1080p60. That is sad since they are made by Sony, and Sony is making the PS3 that will output 1080p.

Now to answer your question of whether DVDO will make an improvement. YES, IT WILL! Before I hooked it up directly to the panel, I had it plugged into the AVC. It will noticeably improve the SD signal (from Directv) and your DVD movies. My DVD movies quality with the DVDO is pretty close to HD quality. The SD is far better than the scaling capabilities of the AVC.

Just like Josh said, if you dont like it, you can return it in 30 days.

Abbas

As of right now, as far as I know, the JVC HD2k projector, Qulia 004 with the R2 modification, Epson 1080p DLP, and the Sharp GX model (with bypassing the AVC) are the only TV's that accept 1080p60. It think the new Sony Ruby projector also accepts 1080p but I am not sure. The Qualia 005 and 006 do NOT accept 1080p60. That is sad since they are made by Sony, and Sony is making the PS3 that will output 1080p.

Abbas

The Samsung 1080p DLPs also can input 1080p including 60fps...

Westa6969, you are also going to want a DVD player that outputs 480i over
HDMI so that the DVDO can do all of the processing ( besides the MPEG2
decoding )...

Will DVDO work with the JVC HD2k and will there be any improvement in quality of high defintition signals from DirecTV or 480i signals from Pioneer DVD player with HDMI ?


Absolutely, the iScan VP30 is compatible with the HD2K. The reason that I cited that particular projector in the article should be obvious after looking at this press release: http://www.jvc-victor.jp/press/2005/dla-hd11k.html. If you have the 1010, you could certainly purchase a VP30 and do a direct comparison with your Pioneer DVD player and your HD source and determine which video processor you want to keep in the system.

As of right now, as far as I know, the JVC HD2k projector, Qulia 004 with the R2 modification, Epson 1080p DLP, and the Sharp GX model (with bypassing the AVC) are the only TV's that accept 1080p60. It think the new Sony Ruby projector also accepts 1080p but I am not sure.

The Ruby can accept 1080p-60 and so can a couple of the HP 1080p DLP's.

The Samsung 1080p DLPs also can input 1080p including 60fps...

Have you tried it on your 1080p TV? I read the manual and there is no mention that it accepts 1080.

Abbas

Have you tried it on your 1080p TV? I read the manual and there is no mention that it accepts 1080.

Abbas

The manual does states that it takes 1920x1080p over vga.
I haven't yet since I have no 1080p output unit I get the VP30.
But many have on the Samsung 1080p owner's thread and claim the PQ is awesome.

The iScan VP30 can not deinterlace a 1080i signal, it field-scales (Bobs) a 1080i signal and outputs it as 1080p.

Thanks for replying.

-Will it ever be able to (deinterlace 1080i), or will that have to be for another hardware upgrade (VP40?) in the future?

I guess by the time I get my hands on a 1080i source, it may be time to swap out the VP30 anyway.

The manual does states that it takes 1920x1080p over vga.
I haven't yet since I have no 1080p output unit I get the VP30.
But many have on the Samsung 1080p owner's thread and claim the PQ is awesome.

Yes and the WMV-HD 1080P videos look excellent at 1920x1080P through the vga port. I just hope the VP30 works on the Samsung over the vga because I never could get the set to accept 1080P from the HD+. I guess I'm going to have to get a vga switcher to go between my HTPC and the VP30.

Aren't the VP30s supposed to start shipping tomorrow?

The actual transcoding of analog 720p to digital 720p is close to zero delay (i.e., way less than a mS). The remainder of the video processing path will introduce some delay, which depends on how you have the iScan configured.

The least delay will be with the output frame-locked to the input, which is probably how you'll be running it. In this case, the delay is a bit less than half a frame period - i.e., about 7 or 8 mS. This delay is incurred so that the iScan can perform zoom and aspect ratio conversions without disturbing the output timing (which can cause your display to lose sync).

If you're converting the incoming frame rate to a different output frame rate, then there will be more delay incurred. This will vary, but will be on the order of 1 to 1.5 frame periods (or 16 to 25 mS).

- Dale Adams

Dale, thank you so much for your response to this. I hope the new VP30 ships soon as I'm getting REALLY TIRED of switching between Digital/Analog every time we use the XBOX360. It wasn't bad with the XBOX as only a handful of games were 720p/1080i. Now every time we use the 360 we have to switch the output on both the iSCAN HD and our projector. Yeah, we have macros that do all of this, but what a pain. Also, I need to have the ability to calibrate the output. Please ship now!!!!! Thanks. SJ

Hi Guys!
I am planning to connect Theta Carmen II to VP30. Carmen II can output progressive out only through DB-15 output which puts out RGB & YCrCb with sync on green or HV sync. I am planning to get a breakout cable but do I need 5 RCA's or 3 RCA's at the breakout end? On VP30 can I just connect the RGB inputs & ignore HV inputs on the RGBHV input or do I need to use all 5 BNC inputs? What kind of sync do I select in VP30? The output from VP30 will be via HDMI. I am guessing that this setup can rival many HDMI upscaling players. I am planning to use AES/EBU out from Carmen II to Anthem AVM30. Eventually I might get SDI output on Carmen II.
Thanks.

I have one of these sets and am very pleased but have been reading quite a bit about this DVDO product.

I am recieving my signal via Direct TV..

What improvements can I expect for the additional $2K???

Thanks

Are the VP30's still scheduled to ship tomorrow? 12/12?

Are the VP30's still scheduled to ship tomorrow? 12/12?

yes please do tell ??

Thanks

-Gary

Well it's the 12th. Has the VP30 showed up on anyones creditcard yet?

Well it's the 12th. Has the VP30 showed up on anyones creditcard yet?

No but i am more than willing to take $1999 of your card with a 'for my vp30' comment if that makes you happy.

Daniel.

Is it me, or do those 5 HDMI connectors on the back look terribly close to one another. I can only see 5 cheap HDMI cables having room to fit, if your lucky. Even many cheap ones have the side squeeze buttons.

Did the VP30 start to ship today?

need scaler.... going through new component withdraw...

So to be 100% clear, you are saying a pre-amp W/OUT an HDMI input can receive audio via the DVDO's Optical output from ANY HDMI source fed to the DVDO.

I would sincerely like someone from DVDO to respond to this question. I can not order this unit if it can not output audio from a future technology (e.g. BlueRay) to my current pre-amp.

--SimpleTheater

Simple I am fairly certain that we can do what you are asking

HDMI with HDCP in and digital output from coaxial/optical

-Gary

I think they answered this already:


The iScan VP30 CAN output audio over the optical and coaxial outputs, from an HDMI input source. In regards to a BD player, you will want an A/V receiver or PreAmp/Processor with an HDMI input to get the most of the audio. The new Dolby and dts formats cannot be output over coaxial or optical. The optical and coaxial outputs of the VP30 will be able to output a 5.1 DD or 5.1/6.1 dts signal but nothing more.

In other words, yes - it will be able to output sound that is coming from a HDMI input, over the digital coaxial/optical output, but no - it will not be able to do that for the new sound formats that are coming with HD material, because the new sound formats require more bandwidth than the optical or coaxial digital outputs can handle. And then no other similar products will be able to either, since the bandwidth of S/PDIF is what it is.

Please see an excerpt from an email that I exchanged with DVDO discussing this very topic.

Can I clarify one audio HDMI support item? We discussed this on the phone about two weeks ago, but I was driving and could not take notes. I need to order some audio cables and I want to make sure the set up is correct.

Since I know I cannot get audio over HDMI (because VP30 is not a “presentation” device), I want to do the following:

Use the optical output from the DVD3910 and feed into the VP30. Take the output of the VP30 into my AVR. This will provide me Lip Synch capability and will not be limited to the 48KHz, 16-bit restriction that DVDO may have. If it is DTS encoded, it would pass the 20-bit audio to my AVR. Is this correct?

My goal is to get the best audio quality while still keeping the Lip Synch feature of the VP30. Otherwise, I will need to by-pass the VP30 for audio, which defeats the purpose (at least one of the primary reasons) of me selecting the VP30 over some of your competition.

Please clarify this setup and its connections. I know that the Denon DVD3910 has the optical and coax audio outputs on all of the time.

DVDO Response:

The short answer to your question is “yes”. Our unit will allow you to take an existing optical/Coaxial digital audio interface and use it like you would without an HDMI input.

Simple I am fairly certain that we can do what you are asking

HDMI with HDCP in and digital output from coaxial/optical

-Gary


Gary - first I love Yngwie Malmsteen.

Second - when you say "we" whom do you mean? Are you affiliated with DVDO or another company?

Thanks.

I think they answered this already:




In other words, yes - it will be able to output sound that is coming from a HDMI input, over the digital coaxial/optical output, but no - it will not be able to do that for the new sound formats that are coming with HD material, because the new sound formats require more bandwidth than the optical or coaxial digital outputs can handle. And then no other similar products will be able to either, since the bandwidth of S/PDIF is what it is.

This is exactly right

I would sincerely like someone from DVDO to respond to this question. I can not order this unit if it can not output audio from a future technology (e.g. BlueRay) to my current pre-amp.

--SimpleTheater


If you click on the DVDO link above...in their website they have a contacts tab for their phone numbers. If tech. support is on another call, they are very good about returning those calls within the same business day.

Ron

This is exactly right

So how does this work. The iScan has one HDMI output and two Audio outputs (one coax and one optical). If the HDMI is encrypted (thus you can ONLY send the audio out via the HDMI output), then how does one send the audio to the pre-amp and the video to the projector?

Do you have to use the pre-amp to take the HDMI input and then send the video to the projector using the pre-amp?

--SimpleTheater

If you click on the DVDO link above...in their website they have a contacts tab for their phone numbers. If tech. support is on another call, they are very good about returning those calls within the same business day.

Ron

Thanks for the info. I believe if I'm having these questions after 38 pages of reading this forum then others are as well. If DVDO can answer the question definitively here, it will not only prevent readers of AVS Forum from calling them, but they can update their FAQ on their website.

In the quote above where Josh says "exactly" does that ALSO hold true if the new audio format is NOT encrypted or does the DVDO downgrade the audio to the optical output in such a case?

What the consumer needs is a very clear definitive answer explaining what it needed under specific circumstances. Even if the post is long it will be worthwhile reading.

--SimpleTheater

I just spoke with Tim at DVDO. Here's what he said (and I'm paraphrasing, not quoting):

"If the HDMI is encrypted, you HAVE to have an A/V Receiver or PreAmp with an HDMI input - no exceptions. The DVDO will send the audio AND video directly to the A/V receiver and the A/V receiver has to output the video to the display VIA an HDMI output."
--Tim

Wow! Do I spend $1,800 on an NAD receiver that does NOT have an HDMI input? NAD says the HDMI spec isn't final yet, so it isn't going on their receivers. This seems like a really BAD time to buy equipment. With Blue-Ray and H-DVD starting a format war, most a/v receivers still don't have HDMI inputs and encryption being a pain the a** - I might spend the next year on the sidelines. ("I might" being the operative phrase).

--SimpleTheater

Thanks for the info. I believe if I'm having these questions after 38 pages of reading this forum then others are as well. If DVDO can answer the question definitively here, it will not only prevent readers of AVS Forum from calling them, but they can update their FAQ on their website.

In the quote above where Josh says "exactly" does that ALSO hold true if the new audio format is NOT encrypted or does the DVDO downgrade the audio to the optical output in such a case?

What the consumer needs is a very clear definitive answer explaining what it needed under specific circumstances. Even if the post is long it will be worthwhile reading.

--SimpleTheater

I understand the benefit to the general membership...but my impression was that you needed the info in a very timely manner...if that was the case, it made sense to call them directly (or email) to get the most accurate and more importantly quickest response to your needs. That is why I suggested calling them instead of waiting for Josh to see your post in this thread. I assume they are all pretty focused on getting the product into the customer's hands....at least I hope so. ;)

Ron

To repeat another unanswered post: Did the VP30 ship today????

To repeat another unanswered post: Did the VP30 ship today????

-My magic eigthball says: 'Outlook not so good.'

(In other words - I don't have a clue. ;) But my gut feeling says January 2006, because of the holidays coming up soon. I think they would've announced it here in bold letters if they had started shipping today?)

delays, delays, delays, can you have a virtual riot?

I just got an email that mine has shipped (it was a trade in offer.)

Eric

got an email... my VP30 has shipped!

Abbas

Easy guys. I just got an email that mine shipped. I assume a tracking # will come tomorrow. :) :) :cool:

Nothing makes me happier than to hear that my hunch was wrong! :)

Great news. :)

Mine being shipped as well ... yaaaahoooooo...

I just got an email indicating that mine has shipped!!

fwiw all, they HAVE been shipped - or at least mine has. thanks Josh, Dale, and all at DVDO.

So when can we expect the vp30 in europe so we can get ready to learn about the vp40 and preorder that one again :).

Daniel.

Easy guys. I just got an email that mine shipped. I assume a tracking # will come tomorrow. :) :) :cool:

tracking number came today too!

Got an email from both Anchor Bay and UPS w/tracking number! Scheduled delivery for 12/19.

Has anyone ordered from AVS and already received a tracking number?

From what I heard AVS preorders go to new york first, last time I asked. Weird how they don't drop ship to save on time and money and at the same time the units don't get banged up...

Looking forward to some reviews from you guys before too long!

Got the tracking number......

Should have the VP30 hooked up to the Sharp LC45-GX6U panel in the next few days and can let Westa6969 know about my apple compared to the orange (LC45-GD6U).

Tony and Westa: The subject of native 1920 x 1080 @ 60hz inputs was mentioned in my post on page 37 of this thread (#1091) along the lines of what you guys are talking about.

The HD4 DLP 1080p Mitsubishi does not list 1080p as an input on its specifications (http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?sHist=12-79%2c6-529&menu=true&id=28341) under 'input capabilities'..... in my post I mentioned that what they advertise is different from what it will do. They infer that there will be digital 1080p sources available, such as games, PC wmv feeds, etc, which I am assuming they are talking about a VGA input, and not a HDMI input. Nevertheless, I guess you can convert the HDMI over to VGA less the audio.

The Qualia Front Throw 004 will accept 1920 x 1080 but not at 60hz.....only 24.

Westa: Abbas is right about the GD model. The only way to input 1080p is to open your panel and bypass the internal AVC box, which would void the warranty among other things.

Someone mentioned a Sharp Aquos 57"..... I thought they only had a 65" up the pipeline that also had an internal AVC, so as not to accept 1080p as well.


I'm still interested to hear if the new JVC D-ILA 1080p sets will accept 1080p....by HDMI or DVI.


Westa brings up a good point from the article in this month's Perfect Vision where the Sharp 45" LCD's 'fail' the de-interlacing test of 1080i and only displays 540 vertical lines.

I had hoped the VP30 would correct for this but the language that Jason is using that 1080i will be 'field scaled' or 'bobbed' to 1080p, is similar to what Gary Merson is talking about with the lack of true de-interlacing by the Sharp AVC box of 1080i.....is this correct?



Sawyer

Hai,

Just some extra info, i got word back from dvdo that overseas shipping will also start today so thats good news.

Daniel.

Remote Codes

Are the remote codes for the VP30 the same as the HD+?

I have a Logitech Harmony 880 remote currently working with my iScan HD+. But in case Logitech does not have the VP30 codes yet (and my VP30 is due Thursday), I'm wondering if the current iScan HD+ remote codes might work with the VP30.

TIA.

- Gerry

Remote Codes

Are the remote codes for the VP30 the same as the HD+?

I have a Logitech Harmony 880 remote currently working with my iScan HD+. But in case Logitech does not have the VP30 codes yet (and my VP30 is due Thursday), I'm wondering if the current iScan HD+ remote codes might work with the VP30.

TIA.

- Gerry

I am also interested in the answer to this. I have a MX-700 and have downloaded
a file for the HD+ and am hoping the VP30 codes are the same...

I had hoped the VP30 would correct for this but the language that Jason is using that 1080i will be 'field scaled' or 'bobbed' to 1080p, is similar to what Gary Merson is talking about with the lack of true de-interlacing by the Sharp AVC box of 1080i.....is this correct?


That is correct, but like every other facet of video processing, just because the method is the same does not mean that the result is.

(Am I Jason?)

I am also interested in the answer to this. I have a MX-700 and have downloaded
a file for the HD+ and am hoping the VP30 codes are the same...

For the most part the codes between the VP30 and the HD/HD+ are the same. There are some exceptions, like all of the HDMI inputs (which the HD/HD+ do not have).

For the most part the codes between the VP30 and the HD/HD+ are the same. There are some exceptions, like all of the HDMI inputs (which the HD/HD+ do not have).

Thanks Josh - can you post or make availalbe the HDMI codes?

I guess the other option is having my remote "learn" the HDMI codes
from the VP30 supplied romote...

Sorry....Josh, Jason is one of the beta testers of what was then the xHD and now VP30.

So, does this mean that there is the older generation chip in the VP30.....say when compared to the Genesis or pixelworks chip he refers to?

Dale, thank you so much for your response to this. I hope the new VP30 ships soon as I'm getting REALLY TIRED of switching between Digital/Analog every time we use the XBOX360. It wasn't bad with the XBOX as only a handful of games were 720p/1080i. Now every time we use the 360 we have to switch the output on both the iSCAN HD and our projector. Yeah, we have macros that do all of this, but what a pain. Also, I need to have the ability to calibrate the output. Please ship now!!!!! Thanks. SJ

Just got my shipping e-mails. My pain may be gone soon!!!!

Hi Josh!
Can I use just the 3 BNC connectors for RGB input & ignore the H/V connectors? If so then which sync do I choose? I am planning to connect Theta Carmen II via DB-15 output ( which can do sync on green or H/V sync) to BNC connectors on VP30 with VP30 output via HDMI to PJ.
Thanks.

Hi Josh!
Can I use just the 3 BNC connectors for RGB input & ignore the H/V connectors? If so then which sync do I choose? I am planning to connect Theta Carmen II via DB-15 output ( which can do sync on green or H/V sync) to BNC connectors on VP30 with VP30 output via HDMI to PJ.
Thanks.

Josh, I sent you an email regarding this some time ago. I take it that if things work the way the HD+ does, you need composite sync on the Sync connector for the VP30 to recognise that the signal on the R, G and B connectors of the "component" inputs is RGB colorspace and not YUV. Is this correct? I would need an RGBs cable to connect a SCART RGB style cable to the VP30 if that's the case. The SCART has composite sync on the luminance line. It does not have separate H and V sync lines/signals - only composite. You can buy an RGBs cable from a place in Italy I found, otherwise, just roll your own.

Am I right in all of this Josh?

Phil.

Anyone order from DVDO after September 1st receive an email yet? I haven't received anything and I placed my order the morning of September 1st. I guess I'm getting a little impatient. I guess as long as they ship it by Tuesday so I can have it for the weekend since I chose 3 day shipping?

Anyone order from DVDO after September 1st receive an email yet? I haven't received anything and I placed my order the morning of September 1st. I guess I'm getting a little impatient. I guess as long as they ship it by Tuesday so I can have it for the weekend since I chose 3 day shipping?

I ordered it weeks before you ( within an hour or two of the opening of the
AVS pre-order ); I have asked for overnight shipping; I don't have a tracking
number yet. I will post as soon I do...

Anyone order from DVDO after September 1st receive an email yet?
Received order confirmation from DVDO 15 Aug 2005 15:29:29 -0600
and I have not received any tracking number yet.

Josh, I sent you an email regarding this some time ago. I take it that if things work the way the HD+ does, you need composite sync on the Sync connector for the VP30 to recognise that the signal on the R, G and B connectors of the "component" inputs is RGB colorspace and not YUV. Is this correct? I would need an RGBs cable to connect a SCART RGB style cable to the VP30 if that's the case. The SCART has composite sync on the luminance line. It does not have separate H and V sync lines/signals - only composite. You can buy an RGBs cable from a place in Italy I found, otherwise, just roll your own.

Am I right in all of this Josh?

Phil.

just feed it rgb and use a extra composite from the same source (thats what i do with scart inputs). There are more ways but this seems the easest since ive never seen a scart/rgb box that also doesn't have a composite out.

Daniel.

Hai,

Josh you might want to update the website it still has old info this for example from the faq file
------------
The HDMI inputs will also accept audio, given that the video signal is on the same input. If the incoming HDMI signal has HDCP, then the iScan VP30 can not output this audio using the optical or coaxial digital outputs, only the HDMI output.
--------------

also what i understand non-linear will not be possible with this release ?

-----
ABT's Precision Video Scaling II technology: 10-bit Scaling, Non-linear Scaling, Enhanced Sharpness Control
-----

Daniel.

Got shipping notification and UPS shipping ifo last night. Didn't see it till just now. But it says that it is inroute. My CHRISTMAS PRESENT to myself.

Josh you might want to update the website it still has old info this for example from the faq file
------------
The HDMI inputs will also accept audio, given that the video signal is on the same input. If the incoming HDMI signal has HDCP, then the iScan VP30 can not output this audio using the optical or coaxial digital outputs, only the HDMI output.
--------------
Daniel.

What's wrong with this statement? When I talked to Tim @ DVDO yesterday he confirmed this to be true.

This whole HDMI thing is obviously the most confusing thing ever invented.

--SimpleTheater

I ordered it weeks before you ( within an hour or two of the opening of the
AVS pre-order ); I have asked for overnight shipping; I don't have a tracking
number yet. I will post as soon I do...
This doesn't sound good. I guess my chances of receiving it this week are rather low. No rush now anyway since they delayed it the last time and I didn't have it here for my last visit from Eliab when he lined my Samsung with the Velux over foamcore panels. Hopefully when the VP30 arrives it won't affect the calibration too much.

What's wrong with this statement? When I talked to Tim @ DVDO yesterday he confirmed this to be true.

This whole HDMI thing is obviously the most confusing thing ever invented.

--SimpleTheater

They added this in the last 2 weeks, so it will output if possible. what is still (atleast to me) unclear what it does when hdcp is turned on. to me it makes sense to still output the old formats since well i am sure they won't mind you having DD and DTS as you have today. I guess i misunderstood it so it will not output if the flag is set even if its just DD or DTS old style. Guess you need to find a way to remove the hdcp then *grin*

----- from earlier in the thread.
In other words, yes - it will be able to output sound that is coming from a HDMI input, over the digital coaxial/optical output, but no - it will not be able to do that for the new sound formats that are coming with HD material, because the new sound formats require more bandwidth than the optical or coaxial digital outputs can handle. And then no other similar products will be able to either, since the bandwidth of S/PDIF is what it is.
----------

Didn't mean to confuse you but they better make up their minds *grin* and change the faq.

Daniel.

Didn't mean to confuse you but they better make up their minds *grin* and change the faq.

Daniel.

Well I am confused. From what I understand if the encryption is on, then the HDMI will only output the audio from the HDMI. My understanding was that they will NOT downgrade the audio and send it out over the optical cable.

Once again - can someone from DVDO clear this up?

All this confusion AND I talked to someone from DVDO yesterday.

--SimpleTheater

Well I am confused. From what I understand if the encryption is on, then the HDMI will only output the audio from the HDMI. My understanding was that they will NOT downgrade the audio and send it out over the optical cable.

Once again - can someone from DVDO clear this up?

All this confusion AND I talked to someone from DVDO yesterday.

--SimpleTheater

Well it doesn't need to be downgraded most content will still be the 'old' formats for a while i bet or will atleast be on the disks. As far as i know there is no seperate flag for
audio so i assumed it will be on alot (even when not needed) to protect the video. Maybe someone can confirm this?

Daniel.

Okay I have done a bit of research and believe that I have the answer.

If audio is input via the HDMI connection, you will either get (on your optical / coax outputs) the full audio stream (no HDCP applied to the HDMI input), or just stereo at 48KHz (HDCP applied to the HDMI input) or nothing at all if the manufacturer of the device doesn't provide for downscaled audio (and HDCP is applied to the HDMI input).

However....what manufacturers can do is apply a copy flag to the digital audio stream coming out of the optical / coax outputs when HDCP is present on the HDMI input. This enables the full audio stream to be output, even when HDCP is applied. The copy flag is ignored by most audio processors, but even if you happen to have a devide that recognizes it, you still get audio, you just can't record it.

So did anyone receive their VP30 today?

Okay I have done a bit of research and believe that I have the answer.

If audio is input via the HDMI connection, you will either get (on your optical / coax outputs) the full audio stream (no HDCP applied to the HDMI input), or just stereo at 48KHz (HDCP applied to the HDMI input) or nothing at all if the manufacturer of the device doesn't provide for downscaled audio (and HDCP is applied to the HDMI input).

However....what manufacturers can do is apply a copy flag to the digital audio stream coming out of the optical / coax outputs when HDCP is present on the HDMI input. This enables the full audio stream to be output, even when HDCP is applied. The copy flag is ignored by most audio processors, but even if you happen to have a devide that recognizes it, you still get audio, you just can't record it.

It's funny how this topic has gone around in circles within this thread. I discussed this topic at length about a month ago and the answer you present here was given then. Just goes to show that most people don't read back for more than a couple of pages :) The Calibre people with their Vantage HD have opted to go this route. DVDO said they were not going to be outdone, so they must be doing the same thing or decided to simply ignore the audio HDCP altogether and let it all go through without any modifications. The HDCP spec on audio is very vague/ambiguous - details of all of this in earlier posts - so that leaves the door wide open at the moment. If you're interested, just follow the escon posts and those around these - you'll get most of what was discussed without having to read all 40 odd pages.

just feed it rgb and use a extra composite from the same source (thats what i do with scart inputs). There are more ways but this seems the easest since ive never seen a scart/rgb box that also doesn't have a composite out.

Daniel.

Thanks Danielo. I think you are saying the same thing as I was - use the video/luminance signal within the SCART connector. I guess the other thing you could do is parallel the GREEN video signal and feed it into the Synsc input. The only problem with that would be a mismatched impedance and probably a corrupted colour signal as the GREEN signal would be lower in amplitude compared to the RED and BLUE.

I was just wondering though, if the VP30 uses the same mechanism to distingish between YUV and RGB, i.e use the SYNC input of the "component" connector cluster to tell it that. The VP30 manual makes no mention of RGB into the "component" inputs, so I was just wanting to make sure that the VP30 behaves in the same way as the HD+ does now. It would make perfect sense that it would, so I'm 99% sure that it would - just nice to have this confirmed by Josh of DVDO.

So did anyone receive their VP30 today?


YES but not hooked up yet...

So did anyone receive their VP30 today?

I've got a package from DVDO sitting right here in my office. Hopefully I'll get some time to play with it tonight.

- Collin

You can buy an RGBs cable from a place in Italy I found, otherwise, just roll your own.
Well I've used scart output with iScan HD and iScan VP30 and it's the same. You simply need scart to 4 RCAs which carry RGBS (or RGBcvS as some people insist on calling it). Plug one end in scart socket and the four cables into iScan and you're done. Simple.

These cables are reasonably common in UK, as are plugs that covert scart socket to four RCA plugs so you can use your own cables. AV specialists like http://www.markgrantcables.com make them to order.

StooMonster

Thanks Danielo. I think you are saying the same thing as I was - use the video/luminance signal within the SCART connector. I guess the other thing you could do is parallel the GREEN video signal and feed it into the Synsc input. The only problem with that would be a mismatched impedance and probably a corrupted colour signal as the GREEN signal would be lower in amplitude compared to the RED and BLUE.

I was just wondering though, if the VP30 uses the same mechanism to distingish between YUV and RGB, i.e use the SYNC input of the "component" connector cluster to tell it that. The VP30 manual makes no mention of RGB into the "component" inputs, so I was just wanting to make sure that the VP30 behaves in the same way as the HD+ does now. It would make perfect sense that it would, so I'm 99% sure that it would - just nice to have this confirmed by Josh of DVDO.

We asked somewhere in this massive thread and they explained the vp30 will do it the same way as the HD and HD+.

Daniel.

PS: in live in a pal/scart country and use the rgb+composite on my hd+ with sat. receivers.

We asked somewhere in this massive thread and they explained the vp30 will do it the same way as the HD and HD+.

Daniel.

PS: in live in a pal/scart country and use the rgb+composite on my hd+ with sat. receivers.

Thanks gentlemen. I know it's simple; just needed to know if the VP30 used the same method to switch between YUV and RGB.

Phil.

So did anyone receive their VP30 today?

I am supposed to get mine tomorrow. I did order mine before you, who knows. Actually I was hoping you would get yours first. You said you ordered the VGA cable to use with your SS. I just ordered a HDMI cable and want to know if the VGA works before I order it. If I was closer I would be happy to try mine out on your setup- if you want to move to southern CA. That probably sounds pretty good this time of year. I hope yours arrives soon.

I'm having a problem with my unit. When I switch inputs on the VP30 (comp1, comp2, etc.). The unit goes into this mode where it is switching every second or so between a noisy (no signal) screen and the actual signal. If I hit the input on my projector, it resyncs and works fine. I really don't want to do this everytime I switch between inputs. Any thoughts? I might try and call DVDO, but I'm not going to be home during the day.... Projector is a Optoma H79.


Another problem is the color seems all messed up. Maybe user error, but I never had these problems on my iSCAN HD.

The color on HDMI input on my projecter seems to now be missing RED. On the color bar pattern I only get white/yellow/blue/black. The component input on my projector is fine. Anyway that something could have blown on my projector! I hooked the iSCAN HD back up and now my projector seems to be messed up. RED is gone. Why? Help! SJ

SJHT - After reading your initial post (before you edited) I went back to the office to try an iScan VP30 with the H79 that we have to see if I could recreate your problem. I could not. I am happy to try again tomorrow though. What resolutions are the sources that you are switching between? How did you configure the VP30? How long is the cable between your projector and VP30?

You mention that the color on the HDMI input on your projector is missing red. Something must be amiss because our H79 is missing an HDMI input. There is however a DVI input. Are you using an HDMI-to-DVI adapter?

The color issue seems to be cable related. I tried hooking up a short cable directly from my old iSCAN HD to my projector and everything is fine with the color. Maybe the cable got messed up in moving everything around. I'll try replacing it before I do anything else. Maybe this is also why I'm having the other problem. Thanks.

I tested with a 5m HDMI-to-DVI cable.

I'm using a 26' DVI cable. If I wiggle it the color seems to come back and then I lose the entire signal. Looks like it needs replacing ASAP! You are right about the H79 having a DVI connector. I was using a converter as my old iSCAN HD had DVI. I'll replace with a HDMI/DVI cable. Thanks for your quick help. SJ

Thanks gentlemen. I know it's simple; just needed to know if the VP30 used the same method to switch between YUV and RGB.

Phil.

Well i am not sure if you already ordered a vp30, but once i have mine ill test it and report back. Current info seems to be that my vp30 will be with me on friday so ill test it before the weekend is over.

Daniel.

It's funny how this topic has gone around in circles within this thread. I discussed this topic at length about a month ago and the answer you present here was given then. Just goes to show that most people don't read back for more than a couple of pages :) The Calibre people with their Vantage HD have opted to go this route. DVDO said they were not going to be outdone, so they must be doing the same thing or decided to simply ignore the audio HDCP altogether and let it all go through without any modifications. The HDCP spec on audio is very vague/ambiguous - details of all of this in earlier posts - so that leaves the door wide open at the moment. If you're interested, just follow the escon posts and those around these - you'll get most of what was discussed without having to read all 40 odd pages.

One of the reasons we figured its changed was the comment by Josh when the delay was announced 2 weeks ago he hinted that extra work was done in this area. I did read it several times but english is not my native language and even now i am confused :)

Daniel.

SJHT, that is way to long of a cable run for DVI, most experts would say 15 feet is maximum for DVI/HDMI

what you need is this:

http://sewelldirect.com/Gefen-DVI-Booster.asp?source=froogle

-Gary

can we get a confirmation on this question:

Can we output digital aduio from the optical/coaxial jack when the input is HDMI HDCP ??

-Gary

SJHT,

For what it is worth,
I use a 26' Blue Jeans (not made by Blue Jeans cable, they oem them) DVI cable from my HD+ to a Hitachi FP and it works very well. I also have the GEFEN DVI Repeater, that I tried when I was having problems with my cable box, thought it was the cable. I DO NOT use the Gefen once I got the cable box replaced, have no problem with DVI cable.

can we get a confirmation on this question:

Can we output digital aduio from the optical/coaxial jack when the input is HDMI HDCP ??

-Gary
Mine is arriving today and that is what I want to do. HDMI to the display and digital to receiver.

I will let you know later.

Also for those with Harmony remote I will be setting that up as well. Fun night coming :D

dlm10541 - I have already uploaded the codes for the VP30 to Logitech's (Harmony's) site.

Thanks josh but when I looked yesterday the setup did not include the HDMI inputs. If not there tonite I will put in learning mode.

I loaded the all of the codes off of the VP30 remote, including all of the inputs, so they should be there.

SJHT, that is way to long of a cable run for DVI, most experts would say 15 feet is maximum for DVI/HDMI

what you need is this:

http://sewelldirect.com/Gefen-DVI-Booster.asp?source=froogle

-Gary

I've been running a 26' cable from bettercables for quite some time without any issues (from my iSCAN HD to my H79). I just ordered a 30' HDMI/DVI cable from RAM. Is 15' really the max without using a repeater? I spoke to the folks at RAM and they indicated that I should not have any problems....

HDMI to HDMI and HDMI to DVI Cables
New RAM Electronics "High End" Rev2 Cables

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI-hdmi_cables.html#hdmidvi-r2

DLM do you have a HDMI device that is HDCP active ??

that would confirm everything

-Gary

I believe my Denon DVD2910 should answer the question. I am at work now so will post later tonight. My first test will be a dvd

SJHT:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/gefen-hdtv-repeater-10-2004.html

my bet is that the VP30 doesn't put out as much voltage as the HD unit(they are also different outputs hdmi vs DVI)

you are going to be running into trouble with that 30 Foot cable no matter the output device, most folks say 15 feet is pushing it, I would be willing to bet you will have trouble without a repeater

-Gary

SJHT:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/gefen-hdtv-repeater-10-2004.html

my bet is that the VP30 doesn't put out as much voltage as the HD unit(they are also different outputs hdmi vs DVI)

you are going to be running into trouble with that 30 Foot cable no matter the output device, most folks say 15 feet is pushing it, I would be willing to bet you will have trouble without a repeater

-Gary

Josh, can you comment on this? Do you think I will have an issue with my cable in switching to the VP30 (from my iSCAN HD)?

Gary, so you are suggesting that I purchase two 15' cables with a repeater? from the site:

The problem comes from the voltage at the DVI output jacks on sources being too low to work over cables longer than about 12 - 15 feet. The voltage from video scalers seems to be OK, but from satellite boxes and DVD players, you get the sparkles.

Thanks!

I have been using the VP-30 for a few weeks now and haven't had a single issue with dropouts via HDMI. I've used HDMI cables from Nordost and Accell, both of which were 10M cables. If you are using runs longer than 15M I would HIGHLY recommend looking at the new Accell cables that have repeaters built into their connectors. I know the guys at DVDO were using one at CEDIA with full 1080P that was 45M long with no issues at all. That is a SERIOUS run!

dlm10541 - I have already uploaded the codes for the VP30 to Logitech's (Harmony's) site.

Josh - My VP30 should be here any day now....how about hooking up the Universal Remote DB with the same info! :P I have an MX-850 that would love to be configged easily with the codes already in their DB and grabbed from the Live Update over the Internet....

thanks!

any pronto.cf files yet?

----- from earlier in the thread.
In other words, yes - it will be able to output sound that is coming from a HDMI input, over the digital coaxial/optical output, but no - it will not be able to do that for the new sound formats that are coming with HD material, because the new sound formats require more bandwidth than the optical or coaxial digital outputs can handle. And then no other similar products will be able to either, since the bandwidth of S/PDIF is what it is.
----------
Daniel.

OK...just when i thought i was going to be set with this VP30, I am thinking this may not be the case so I want to see what people's thoughts are.

I plan on hooking up an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray DVD Player (once available) via HDMI into the VP 30 and the HDMI out will be going to my Panny Plasma. So...if I want the new Dolby Digital + / True HD Audio, I need to feed HDMI out into a new receiver (my brand new B&K AVR 507 Series 2 won't cut it due to SPDIF b/w limitations!) that has HDMI in. Now this HDMI in to this new receiver, I only want doing audio....NOT video! Hence the reason for getting the DVDO VP30! But if we need to send audio over HDMI to get Dolby Digital + / True HD Audio to a new receiver, I do NOT want that receiver to do any video scaling etc....I just want it to do audio....

Man - This really sux if this is the case....I'm trying to plan for the new formats and thought the VP30 was it with it's 4 HDMI inputs for everything i need:

1. HDMI DVR from Comcast
2. HDMI HD/Blu-Ray DVD Player
3. HDMI Sony PS 3
4. HDMI Home Theater PC

....I am trying to figure out how the VP30 will work with the new HD audio formats given the scenario I just layed out above.

Anyone have some insight? (Downsampling to SPDIF does not count as an answer since I know it will do that....I want to know how to get the new HD Audio formats utilizing a VP30 and I can't figure it out!)

any pronto.cf files yet?

That would work too since the MX-850 software can convert Pronto files! I'm not picky! :D

Still hoping this VP30 may refine my non HD formats on my new 45GD5U - it says its a 1080P panel but cannot feed through HDMI. The good news for Sharp is a posting just listed by Mike53 - the Sharp Guy :

"Internal meeting just confirmed that the LC45D90U and LC37D90U support 1080P input through HDMI and DVI-I. Also the contrast ratio on the new LC57D90U is 1500:1 with 4ms response time." (March 2006 US Release)

He posted the first 65" (in US) was sold to Steve Martin. To bad I couldn't wait til March to get the 1080P throughput plus 57" size.

Oh well, I'll look forward to real feedback by all these new owners of the VP30 this next week to decide if it may take my Sharp to the next level in all it's other formats - very happy with the panel but everyone knows SD and what I call fake HD scrunched down to 4:3 kind of sucks on any display. :)

On Monday I received an email from DVDO that my unit had shipped. I never did receive any tracking information. Is that consistent with the experience of others? Or should I expect to receive tracking information when it is actually picked up by UPS?

On Monday I received an email from DVDO that my unit had shipped. I never did receive any tracking information. Is that consistent with the experience of others? Or should I expect to receive tracking information when it is actually picked up by UPS?

My tracking info (from UPS) came about one hour after the DVDO shipping e-mail. However, I'm sure there are a lot of factors which could change this. SJ

My tracking info (from UPS) came about one hour after the DVDO shipping e-mail. However, I'm sure there are a lot of factors which could change this. SJ
The first tracking info is usually just billing info for UPS. Got my email Monday and finally had movement last night and received the product today. I went ground as ground is overnight for my location. :D