New DVDO iScan VP30 [Text View] - Page 7

keenan

12-22-05, 12:19 AM

Thanks for the suggestion. After picking up both a new Arcam AVR300 receiver and upgrading to the VP30 this month, and with Christmas expenses, any consideration of making the "IR repeater" plunge will have to wait a bit.

Was hoping for something a lot cheaper than the IR repeater since I only have a problem with the VP30 remote. No problem with any other equipment. Maybe the collector will work. Hopefully someone will try and report back.

- Gerry
If it's only for one device, there are a lot of very inexpensive solutions, I was just guessing at the price for the one I bought, but it was 12 device capable so it was understandably more money.

That page that Mark Rubin posted earlier had some very inexpensive devices you could use and they should work with the 880, that's what I use.

Mike N Ike

12-22-05, 12:54 AM

Good luck! Just checked the tracking and it shows it has left N.Y. and is scheduled
to arrive tomorrow in Laguna Niguel, CA...

I can't wait. I have been holding off on various DVDS and am looking forward
to watching many of my DVDS over again!

It's going to be a Merry Xmas!. Got my tracking # and it's scheduled for Friday!

tonydeluce

12-22-05, 02:00 AM

It's going to be a Merry Xmas!. Got my tracking # and it's scheduled for Friday!

Congratulations!

John P.

12-22-05, 08:38 AM

In our country we get support from the local dealer but im 99% sure its after you get the unit. Mail dvdo about it i doubt it will be a problem. Also find it a little weird that its 30 days for international and 60 days for usa. As a example ive got my vp30 2 days ago and don't plan on sending the hd+ back before 2006 :).

So just ask doubt it will be a problem, also i would not be shocked we are the only 2 who got units under this deal sofar and things are still abit in flux.

Daniel.

I have now e-mailed DVDO about this, because it didn't go down as I had anticipated it would.

In your case, was the upgrade an automatic process? What I mean is - was the unit shipped to you from your dealer/reseller without you having to do anything?

-'Cause I coincidentally (because I was all giddy and restless waiting for my VP30) sent an e-mail to the reseller for my country, and the reply I got was (and I paraphrase): "Yeah - we have the VP30s. You can either send us your iScan HD, and then we'll send you a VP30, or you can come down here and do the swap here." ......

So - in other words, they had received their batch, but were not about to send me my VP30... If I hadn't been curious and sent them an e-mail, I guess I would never have received my VP30.

In addition to that, them saying I had to return my old unit first goes against what is said on the international upgrade webpage.

Anyway - now that I've sorted that out (I hope...) they'll be sendingme my VP30 first. But they had to ask me for my address first (?). I thought that came with my order, and my VP30. I guess this process wasn't as automated as I had hoped.

Note that this is not critisism of DVDO, just of how this was handled. After all - I pre-ordered, but from what I can gather from my reseller's first reply, they would have gone ahead and sold all the units if I hadn't coincidentally e-mailed them and asked about my order...

So if I hadn't been curious and sent them an e-mail, I would be sitting here twiddling my thumbs well into next year and not see any hint of a VP30.

SJHT

12-22-05, 09:53 AM

has anyone with the vp30 hooked up hdmi with the scientific atlanta 8300hd (hddvr) and had sucess with audio output. i get a picture no problem but i cannot get sound thru the hdmi option i have to hook up a optical audio out from the box to get audio. any advice? thanks
-rob

Mine is working great. I had even run the digital cable for the audio to the unit, but ended up not using it. The HDMI output works great for the audio feed. SJ

vn2000

12-22-05, 11:43 AM

Josh Z

12-22-05, 01:06 PM

dlm10541

12-22-05, 01:37 PM

e1618978

12-22-05, 02:24 PM

I have the VP30 in my system now - huge difference in picture quality compared to my old quadscan elite, even with all default settings.

video: PS2 -> VP30 -> Electrohome Marquee 8500LC
audio: PS2 -> VP30 -> Outlaw audio pre-amp

I am having two issues:

1) short (quarter-second?) intense burst of static out the speakers when I power down the PS2. I am using toslink connections, and this didn't happen when the audio went straight from the PS2 to the pre-amp, so it is definitely added by the VP30.

2) For some reason, the PS2 seems to have different output geometry when you play DVDs than when you play games - if I set up the projector to use the full screen on DVDs, the projected image for games is smaller and shifted right and down (band at top of screen, band on left of screen). This happened with the quadscan also, so it is definitely a problem with the Sony - but with all the configuration options on the VP30 now I have hope to fix it.

I will probably end up saving two profiles, and switching between them to correct for this (unless there is a better way?).

Anyway, I am very pleased with my new toy - Thanks DVDO!

flyingvee

12-22-05, 02:35 PM

e - will check with my PS2 when I get home - so far, that is the only thing I haven't tried. Can testify that DVI out from my Samsung 165 HD box goes into the HDMI input just fine; can't tell much if any difference between the picture quality there, vs taking RGBHV out of the 165 and into the corresponding BNCs on the VP30.

Haven't tried the PS2 - never had that problem before, so will see if I can recreate it with my rig.

aaronwt

12-22-05, 02:53 PM

Has anyone successfully gotten 5.1 audio out of the VP30's Toslink or coaxial output via an HDMI audio input?

I only have 1 HDMI device (NeuNeo DVD player). When I associate the VP30's appropriate video input for audio in via HDMI, I can only get 2.0 sound to my receiver. Connecting the DVD player by coax to the VP30 instead passes through full 5.1. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the VP30 or the NeuNeo. It's not a big deal, but I'd prefer to cut down on the number of cables in my rack any way I can.

5.1DD and 6.1 DTS-ES discrete is working fine out of my Sony 975 dvd player using the VP30 HDMI input. DD 5.1 sound is working great from both my HD-TiVos with the HDMi inputs also.(no clicking noise). I am using the optical out from the VP30 to my Denon 3805 receiver.

westa6969

12-22-05, 03:27 PM

Hi everyone,

I do not notice any PQ improvement when using VP30 with 79avi fed to Pio-5060 @ 720p via hdmi @ 480i. Is it normal? There is noticable improvement on SD material however.

Thanks for your input.

VN
I guess the magic question = is the PQ improvement worth the nearly $2K price tag?

I've yet to see anyone rave about the level of difference - would be nice for us right brain folks to see some measurable tangibles that justify such an expense or some adjectives like WoW or Amazing or the similar - are we talking 10%, double or what can those of us that've never had one expect? Are there lay person benchmarks for those of us new to VP's? :D

Ken Ross

12-22-05, 04:12 PM

I'd have to agree with Wes on this. If your display is a plasma or other fixed pixel device, and you're only inputting HDMI devices (HD Tivo, H20 D* receiver, D-Theater etc.), is there any real difference in PQ or need above and beyond the switching this device offers? I'm currently using a 50" Fujitsu plasma with the AVMII.

Does the Gefen (switcher only) serve the same purpose if there are no real PQ gains for fixel pixel devices?

Also, how does this unit differ from the Key Digital 4X1 HDMI switcher/processor?

aaronwt

12-22-05, 04:21 PM

DOn't forget you can also adjust the picture for each input and I think it also remembers the picture settings for multiple resolutions for each input. It's more than just a switcher. With the $1000 trade in for my HD+ and the AVS discount the VP30 was definitely worth it to me. There is an improvement over the HD+ but it isn't twice as good. But it is defnitely a better unit than the HD+ and this is just the first version of the software. I expect more improvements in the coming months. I would have liked some noise reduction features but I'll expect those in the scaler they introduce next year.

Ken Ross

12-22-05, 04:58 PM

Q of BanditZ

12-22-05, 04:58 PM

I guess the magic question = is the PQ improvement worth the nearly $2K price tag?

I've yet to see anyone rave about the level of difference - would be nice for us right brain folks to see some measurable tangibles that justify such an expense or some adjectives like WoW or Amazing or the similar - are we talking 10%, double or what can those of us that've never had one expect? Are there lay person benchmarks for those of us new to VP's? :D

Great line of questioning, in general, actually.

I'd have to agree with Wes on this. If your display is a plasma or other fixed pixel device, and you're only inputting HDMI devices (HD Tivo, H20 D* receiver, D-Theater etc.), is there any real difference in PQ or need above and beyond the switching this device offers? I'm currently using a 50" Fujitsu plasma with the AVMII.

Does the Gefen (switcher only) serve the same purpose if there are no real PQ gains for fixel pixel devices?

Also, how does this unit differ from the Key Digital 4X1 HDMI switcher/processor?

May as well throw in MonoPrice's switchers, including the their new 4x1 HDMI that's coming out on 12/28 while we're at it... ;)

Ken Ross

12-22-05, 05:11 PM

The HD-TiVo will enable HDCP if it detects the source supports it.

Stacey, a related question on this. I had a Gefen 4X2 HDMI switcher that strips the HDMI audio and allows you to take the DD 5.1 signal to your receiver/amp. What was interesting is that I had no trouble getting full 5.1 sound from my HD Tivo and JVC D-Theater deck, but the new Directv H20 receiver would drop down to PCM when it was switched in. Any idea why 2 devices would work and the newest one not...especially since my display, a Fujitsu 50" plasma, does not decode DD 5.1 anyway?

Sometimes I think this whole HDMI thing is witchcraft! :(

Josh Z

12-22-05, 05:16 PM

Yes I have 4 HDMI input devices and send the audio to my receiver over the optical output. I am outputting 5.1 where available.

Thanks, dlm and Aaron. I assume the problem must be with the NeuNeo DVD player. I'll take the issue up with them.

Gary Murrell

12-22-05, 05:21 PM

Have any folks tested the VP30 to see how it's brightness/contrast and Color decoder levels are?? how close to standard??

I have a Pro Calibrator coming over tomorrow and sadly I don't think my VP30 will be here in time to be thrown in the chain :(

Edit:

I went back reading some more posts and it seems Spears has already tested this, and it turned out pretty good ??

-Gary

collinp

12-22-05, 05:29 PM

Josh Z

Yes I have 4 HDMI input devices and send the audio to my receiver over the optical output. I am outputting 5.1 where available.

I am having problem with my Direct tv HR10-250. Everything is OK until i go to the HiDef tier. Sound disappears and is replaced by a rapid clicking sound. Have not figured this out yet even with DVDOs help.

I have similar problems with the HD Tivo with both the HD+ and the VP30. SD programming always has audio, but HD programming will occasionally be silent. The problem can be fixed by switching from the correct audio input to another and then back to the correct input. This however is more trouble than its worth for me so I just use analog audio from the HDTivo. This problem happens on optical in or HDMI in. It also happened on optical in on my HD+. It really seems like a DVDO bug. I'd love to see this addressed.

- Collin

keenan

12-22-05, 06:34 PM

Aaron, I agree with you. For me the only real benefit I see is the ability to adjust picture parameters for individual HDMI inputs. But that again brings me back to one of my original questions, how woud the Key Digital processor be any different? It appears to do the same thing (with the exception of not having component, composite, S inputs...all of which I don't need anyway).

I'm glad to see that some of the issues on the VP30 are being addressed.
Not familar with the Key Digital product, but the VP30 in addition to being a HDMI(along with almost every other connection know to man) can also, from the DVDO site, (it's easier than just retyping it all),

ABT's Precision Video Scaling II technology: 10-bit Scaling, Non-linear Scaling, Enhanced Sharpness Control

Motion and source adaptive video deinterlacing for NTSC (3:2 and 2:2 pulldown; video) and PAL/SECAM (2:2 pulldown; video) sources

User defined output resolution from 480p to 1080p

Analog HD Transcoding and Processing

Flexible Input and Output Aspect Ratio Control

Display Profiles – For multiple display configurations (4)

ABT's RightRate™ High-Performance Framerate Conversion

ABT's AutoVFR™ - Intelligent Component Video Inputs with Automatic Video Format Routing

Advanced Source Transition Management provides seamless transitions between source types

ABT's AutoCUE-C™ - Automatic Chroma Upsampling Error detection & correction

10-bit, 300 MHz instrumentation-quality DACs, with up to 10x oversampling and 2X oversampling for 1080p

Full-frame Timebase Correction

High performance, multi-standard video decoders (10-bit: 480i/576i; 12-bit: 480p/576p/720p/1080i)

High-quality super-adaptive comb filter with 2D Y/C separation

Flexible Digital and Analog Audio switching and routing – four digital audio inputs and one analog audio input with two digital audio outputs (both active)

ABT's Precision AV LipSync™ intelligent digital audio delay technology to match Audio & Video timing

Granted, once a display or signal path is set up, much of what the VP30 does becomes transparent, but the fine tuning ability of both input and output resolutions and timings, and connection compatibility make it a pretty nice device. IMO, there's a whole lot of product packed into this box for the price.

The question, "Does it improve the image, and by how much?" is impossible really to answer as different setups will give different results. The versatility the product provides along with the user, finely adjustable, parameters certainly gives one the tools to improve the image, whether it actually does so or not is dependant a lot on how those setting and controls are implemented.

Try it, DVDO has a very good no-questions asked return policy, at the worst you might be out the shipping costs.

I certainly would not want to be without mine. :)

Q of BanditZ

12-22-05, 06:57 PM

Sometimes I think this whole HDMI thing is witchcraft! :(

I much prefer DVI myself. They should have just stayed with it, imho.

Ken Ross

12-22-05, 07:16 PM

Keenan, thanks for the comments. But again I think the question for me is related to benefits via a fixed pixel display, especially one with such a good scaler like the Fujitsu plasma. The ability to control input parameters (color, brightness etc.) is nice, but I'm not sure of the cost/benefits for just that ability.

I can certainly see the benefits IF you have many devices using S-video, composite or even lower rez component. But if all your sources are essentially HD, then I wonder.

tonydeluce

12-22-05, 07:37 PM

I guess the magic question = is the PQ improvement worth the nearly $2K price tag?

I've yet to see anyone rave about the level of difference - would be nice for us right brain folks to see some measurable tangibles that justify such an expense or some adjectives like WoW or Amazing or the similar - are we talking 10%, double or what can those of us that've never had one expect? Are there lay person benchmarks for those of us new to VP's? :D

Most people are comparing the HD+ to the VP30 on this thread. I got mine
today but may not be able to hook it up until tomorrow. I will comparing
the upconversion of my Pio Elite to the VP30 ( using 480i HMDI as an input ).

You might also want to check the HD+ threads to so what the impressions
were since the differences between HD+ and VP30 may be minimal...

vn2000

12-22-05, 07:53 PM

Hi everyone,

I am having problem using more than one digital audio input. I got loud hissing noise for the second input (both optical and/ or coaxial) beside the first optical 1. Any idea what is going on?

Thank you for your input.

VN2000

GerryWaz

12-22-05, 08:18 PM

Wonder if someone can explain to something to me . . .

With my old iScan HD+ and my HD cable box, sometimes, when I would switch channels from a HD channel to a regular digital channel (or vice versa), the screen would look like old animated video snow. Sometimes the picture would then come in and sometimes it wouldn't. When it wouldn't come in, I'd turn off the HD+ with the remote and then power it back up again and the picture would come in again.

It also seemed more likely to happen the longer I had everything turned on.

I haven't seen this yet with the VP30 (yeah!). The picture may go blank for a moment when going from HD to regular digital or so (or vice versa) but it usually comes back in quite quickly.

What was I seeing with the HD+ and has the VP30 been improved to avoid it?

TIA!!!

- Gerry

tonydeluce

12-22-05, 08:54 PM

Does anyone have a link to the new firmware upgrade for the VP30 - I can't
seem to find it on the DVDO website.

Might as well update the VP30 before placing it in my rack...

flyingvee

12-22-05, 09:00 PM

vn - I'm running three digital inputs - both optical and one coax - once I assigned them to the correct video inputs, have had no problems. Check to be sure your digital audio is enabled on the output device, perhaps?

Gerry - looks to me as if DVDO simply enabled an output blanking/muting - I get about 2 sec blue screen whenever I switch from SD to HD inputs. (S-vid to HDMI) - So I can't "flip" between two games by going from HD to SD quickly, but on the upside, any snow/funkiness is hidden. I'll take 2 seconds of blue screen and be happy (and it looks like there is an option to NOT have blue screen - still haven't digested the manual.)

aaronwt

12-22-05, 09:17 PM

I have not seen a blue screen . I get the snow when changing inputs. I guess I need to look for that option.

flyingvee

12-22-05, 09:41 PM

e- connected the PS2 - first of all, if there is/was a delay, it is smaller/less than my reflexes. Tried Wipeout Fusion - my only 16x9 PS2 game - sensation of speed superb, looked nice and smooth. I was able to win the league I entered, so wasn't enough delay to slow me down :)

But as to your problem - seems like the PS2 has a couple of problems with the VP30 - at evey load screen, my Runco 980 would have to relock on the signal - the input display for the Runco came on screen, just as it does when I change memory blocks on the Runco or when the Runco loses input signal. Never saw that with any of my other vps, but they were all of the previous generation or so. Possibly a result of the blanking? Also, the VP didn't recognize 16x9 on the PS2 - had to go to 2nd option on Aspect Ratio - went to Active and manually chose the correct ratio (1.66-1?) - when I used to first AR option, and set it to 16x9, still only displayed 4x3. Now it is fine for games. Sorry, but didn't try it for movies - haven't used it for viewing dvds for a few years now - I have one of the originals, so i'm saving what little time I have left on the cheap laser for game playing.

Gary Murrell

12-22-05, 09:51 PM

Just for me personally,
here are my list of items that I just had to have the VP30 for:

-one connection for all video's digital sound to my Pre-Amp(no switching on Pre-Amp)
-Reduction of cables using HDMI
-Underscanning/no overscan for all inputs(I have CRT Display)
-CUE Correction of inputted devices
-Y/C correction on inputted evices
-One DVI connection to my display
-separate picture controls for each video device
-no changing of picture controls on display
-no changing of input controls on display
-top notch SDI DVD scaling and output at 1080i
-HDMI switching
-Conversion of comp. to DVI(my display can only be calibrated correct for DVI or Comp. not both)
-separate audio delay for each and every video device in my setup(pre-amp only has overall)
-conversion of HDMI/Toslink audio to Coaxial
-better 720p to 1080i conversion for 720p sources(1080i CRT display)
-image movement for off center video devices
-great scaling of 480i sources like LD to 1080i
-Zooming/scaling/aspect control for all video

I could go on and on and on :)

-Gary

flyingvee

12-22-05, 10:12 PM

Gary - I really didn't need the list - the switching, and lip-synch is cool, but for me, the picture quality is the BIG selling point. I don't watch some tiny fixed pixel device (sorry - couldn't help it) - I'm pushing my 980 Ultra onto a 139" wide screen, 16x9. Blow it up that big, get the pj focused so you can see scan lines at 1080i, and the picture is astounding. Improvement on SD is hard to believe. On hd - not for me, since I am running at HD resolution for right now. But dvds look better than they did with upscaling dvd player, and maybe better than HTPC with dScaler. (P4, Radeon 256meg)

Oh yeah, and of course, the accurate transcoding of any input into antique RGBHV ;) -- the mythological MP-5 goes for 7+, last I heard. Between that and the switcher you are talking about, you are getting close to the price of the VP after upgrade. Was an easy choice for me, and I feel even better after having had the unit for a week.

pjr

12-22-05, 11:53 PM

Lars158

12-23-05, 12:15 AM

Josh Z

Yes I have 4 HDMI input devices and send the audio to my receiver over the optical output. I am outputting 5.1 where available.

I am having problem with my Direct tv HR10-250. Everything is OK until i go to the HiDef tier. Sound disappears and is replaced by a rapid clicking sound. Have not figured this out yet even with DVDOs help.

I am experiencing the exact same issue with HDMI in from the HR10-250. Once I switch to a HD channel where there is 5.1 output I get some random noise out from the VP30. My workaround for now is to use the coax output from the HR10... I am not sure if this is an issue with HDMI on the VP30 or the HR10-250 unit ?

joealtus

12-23-05, 01:55 AM

My workaround for now is to use the coax output from the HR10...

What do you mean? Do you mean the optical out from the HR10-250?

Lars158

12-23-05, 02:21 AM

What do you mean? Do you mean the optical out from the HR10-250?

Correct...

keenan

12-23-05, 02:50 AM

How long does it take to hear back from DVDO about sending in your trade-in? I sent an e-mail yesterday and have not heard back.

I received my RMA# within hours, but that was last Thursday, this week being so close to the holiday it may take a day or two. If you don't have a response by noon Friday, you could call them I suppose.

escon

12-23-05, 03:05 AM

I am experiencing the exact same issue with HDMI in from the HR10-250. Once I switch to a HD channel where there is 5.1 output I get some random noise out from the VP30. My workaround for now is to use the coax output from the HR10... I am not sure if this is an issue with HDMI on the VP30 or the HR10-250 unit ?

Does the HR10-250 put out HDCP over HDMI once you switch to HD?

If so, then it looks like we could have the classic problem of blocking audio out over the digital outputs of the VP30 when the audio coming into the VP30 via the HDMI cable and the data stream has HDCP applied to it. I thought we were going to be able to get full 5.1 out over the digital outputs of the VP30, even with HDCP over HDMI - it's certainly what Josh-of-DVDO said. One other possibility could be that DVDO have used the "do not copy" flag in the data stream when HDCP is present and this is s affecting you receiver/amp.

Phil.

P.S. Just so that we can put this whole issue to rest - be good if we could - has anyone definitely confirmed that you can get full 5.1 out over HDMI with HDCP? A Denon 3910 DVD player or the like would probably have HDCP applied, once you select one of the higher res modes.

vn2000

12-23-05, 06:44 AM

Further trying showed that I had problem with all digitial audio inputs when feeding them with HD/ 5.1 signal (ie. from HD program or DVD players) I tried to connect these digital audio outputs to my Yammie receiver and they all sounded beautiful. Note that SD audio is ok. Any idea what is going on???

VN

danielo

12-23-05, 06:57 AM

P.S. Just so that we can put this whole issue to rest - be good if we could - has anyone definitely confirmed that you can get full 5.1 out over HDMI with HDCP? A Denon 3910 DVD player or the like would probably have HDCP applied, once you select one of the higher res modes.

What dvdo should do is add a 'hdcp' in the info screen/lcd so we can see if its really on. Same for audio. Both on the input and output side of things. Showing whats 'in' the signal will be a huge step in debugging problems.

Daniel.

escon

12-23-05, 08:08 AM

What dvdo should do is add a 'hdcp' in the info screen/lcd so we can see if its really on. Same for audio. Both on the input and output side of things. Showing whats 'in' the signal will be a huge step in debugging problems.

Daniel.

Bloody brilliant idea Daniel.

Just a question here. Can the video and audio be separately HDCP'd, or is HDCP always applied to both data streams? I guess here I am supposing that the chipset might automatically encrypt both data streams - or can software control whether both or either one is to be encrypted?

Phil.

John Williams

12-23-05, 08:27 AM

escon,

I think aaronwt answered the HDMI/DD issue here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6771722&&#post6771722

Now, that being said, I can't personally verify that everything is working because I'm (apparently) dealing with a bug in my only HDMI source -- a Motorola 6412p3 cable DVR -- where, in fact, DD is not available via HDMI (from the source, not the VP30). This particular bug is supposed to be fixed in the next firmware update from Comcast, but who knows when that's coming?!?

If anyone else is having issues, perhaps they might be source related too? After all this is HDMI what, 1.2 ??

-John

Ken Ross

12-23-05, 10:12 AM

What dvdo should do is add a 'hdcp' in the info screen/lcd so we can see if its really on. Same for audio. Both on the input and output side of things. Showing whats 'in' the signal will be a huge step in debugging problems.

Daniel.

Dan, one way to check if you have Directv, is to tune to Channel 201. If you get a picture then your HDCP stream is successful and the 'handshake' has been accomplished. If you don't then you'll get the prompt that the display is not HDCP compliant.

aaronwt

12-23-05, 10:21 AM

Even if it's not HDCP compliant the HD channels will still work on the HD-TiVo.
On the audio issue with the HD-TiVo, I haven't seen one but I only access HD chaneels with my HD-TiVos, I ise my SD-DirecTiVo for the SD channels. I have to tune my HD-TiVos to an SD channel tonight to see if I have any problems when switching back to an HD channel, or maybe I shouldn't touch anything with the audio since right now it is working perfectly over HDMI for me.

danielo

12-23-05, 10:22 AM

Bloody brilliant idea Daniel.

Just a question here. Can the video and audio be separately HDCP'd, or is HDCP always applied to both data streams? I guess here I am supposing that the chipset might automatically encrypt both data streams - or can software control whether both or either one is to be encrypted?

Phil.

Well protection or not it would be nice to know if there is any audio over the hdmi for example. One of the nice things a scaler can and imho should do is provide more info
on what is attached so we can use the scaler to 'tune' it better and output it in different way. ATB already added a few of these things but i personally think they should take this further and extend it to the area(s) where we are having connection problems.

Daniel.

SJHT

12-23-05, 10:59 AM

How long does it take to hear back from DVDO about sending in your trade-in? I sent an e-mail yesterday and have not heard back.

Josh- I know you are very busy, but when you have time, I would really like some quidance about how to hook up the VGA to my Samsung.

I sent an e-mail to them to get a RMA#. Got a response the next day. Shipped the unit that same day and got my credit the next day! Fast!

keenan

12-23-05, 12:13 PM

I sent an e-mail to them to get a RMA#. Got a response the next day. Shipped the unit that same day and got my credit the next day! Fast!
Same here, not having returned anything to DVDO before my expectations were low, I figured a couple of weeks, a month...nope, the day they received the return unit, my CC was credited that night. Blew me away, never have I experienced that sort of speed for a transaction like that. Very impressive.

Now compare that to a DirecTV rebate when purchasing a HD-TiVo, it's just a letter, no product being returned, well, it's been over two months so far...no rebate check yet.. :rolleyes:

Q of BanditZ

12-23-05, 12:13 PM

Same here, not having returned anything to DVDO before my expectations were low, I figured a couple of weeks, a month...nope, the day they received the return unit, my CC was credited that night. Blew me away, never have I experienced that sort of speed for a transaction like that. Very impressive.

Now compare that to a DirecTV rebate when purchasing a HD-TiVo, it's just a letter, no product being returned, well, it's been over two months so far...no rebate check yet.. :rolleyes:

I'd do two things: Call Customer Retention and maybe call the BBB. That's ridiculous.

keenan

12-23-05, 12:32 PM

I'd do two things: Call Customer Retention and maybe call the BBB. That's ridiculous.
Yeah, I'm giving until the first part of Jan and then I'll call them..be simpler if they just gave me a credit on programming.

mskreis

12-23-05, 02:51 PM

Ken Ross

12-23-05, 03:03 PM

Even if it's not HDCP compliant the HD channels will still work on the HD-TiVo.

Yes it will, 'today'. With all the crap that Hollywood is pulling, the whole idea is to try and maintain HDCP compliance throughout your system in an attempt to 'future proof' your components.

Hopefully this won't be necessary, but I don't trust Hollywood as far as I can throw them.

escon

12-23-05, 05:37 PM

5.1DD and 6.1 DTS-ES discrete is working fine out of my Sony 975 dvd player using the VP30 HDMI input. DD 5.1 sound is working great from both my HD-TiVos with the HDMi inputs also.(no clicking noise). I am using the optical out from the VP30 to my Denon 3805 receiver.

Thanks for reminding me of that. The problem of knowing if the HDMI Audio stream has HDCP on it, still exists though. This is why I posed the question if anyone knows if HDCP can be applied separately to the video and audio stream. It seems so far that we are getting a mixed bag of results with the audio over HDMI. Having read the specs on HDMI, a little while back now admittedly, I cannot recall that HDCP was or could be applied separately. The one tool we now have to ascertain just that is the VP30 itself!!

So, what about it Josh, an indication on the LCD screen to tell us if HDCP is present would be a great boon. It's particularly important now, as HDMI/HDCP is still in its infancy and many bugs still need to be ironed out.

Phil.

hdefjunkie

12-23-05, 05:53 PM

Hooked up my new VP30 today and ran into a couple of problems. Just wondering
if anyone else ran into these.

1) IR doesn't seem to work with my Xantech repeater. The IR bud was placed
right overtop of the IR window on the VP30.

Update: Fixed with new non feedback (blink) IR bud

2) When I route the optical audio from my Denon 3910 DVD and SA3250 into
the VP30 and then output to my Pioneer VSX-1014 receiver. The receiver goes
berserk trying to sync with the audio. The receiver display flashes like crazy
trying to sync to the incoming signal from the VP30.

Josh Z

12-23-05, 06:19 PM

I only have 1 HDMI device (NeuNeo DVD player). When I associate the VP30's appropriate video input for audio in via HDMI, I can only get 2.0 sound to my receiver. Connecting the DVD player by coax to the VP30 instead passes through full 5.1. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the VP30 or the NeuNeo. It's not a big deal, but I'd prefer to cut down on the number of cables in my rack any way I can.

Just a follow-up on this: I confirmed with NeuNeo that their DVD player only supports HDMI 1.1, which can only carry 2-channel sound.

So the problem is with the DVD player, not the VP30.

escon

12-23-05, 06:28 PM

Just a follow-up on this: I confirmed with NeuNeo that their DVD player only supports HDMI 1.1, which can only carry 2-channel sound.

So the problem is with the DVD player, not the VP30.

Excellent feedback Josh. This helps us to narrow down the source - parden the pun - of the problems. HDMI 1.1 only supports 2 chan audio. So, before blaming the VP30, check to see if the device you connect does or has HDMI 1.2.

John Williams

12-23-05, 08:54 PM

Josh Z,

HDMI 1.1 is supposed to support DD and dts (since they fit into the same bandwidth "footprint" as 2-ch PCM) as well as 5.1 DVD-Audio. It does not support SACD, though -- that is 1.2. 1.3 is supposed to add support for DD+ and dts-HD (lossless multichannel audio formats for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.)

So either your DVD is actually 1.0(-ish?), or they have a bug in their implementation.

-John

flyingvee

12-23-05, 11:40 PM

Have found one bug in the VP30 - and like many above, it is in the audio chain. Discovered last night, reconfirmed tonight, when I change channels on my Samsung 165 STB, there is a definite "phft" of white noise as the channel is changed. Have never heard it when stb is connected directly to receiver, or when connected directly to my lcd tv/moniter. 165 connected to VP30 via digital optical. Noise occurs, both when DVI to hdmi cable is fed to VP, or when I take the RGB output of the stb and feed it to the RGBHV inputs of the VP. Very short - maybe 20-30ms. Just enough to be noticeable, and possibly hard on the tweeters if volume on system is high enough.

On plus side, VP30 gets 5.1 over both types of digital input, as one would expect.

aaronwt

12-23-05, 11:55 PM

I haven't noticed a problem with my OPPO yet with the DVI to HDMI cable, but I'm using the VP30 coaxial input with the Oppo. I've only spent about 45 minutes with it.
I did try a couple of 96/24 DTS tracks on my Sony DVD player and they went across the HDMI to the VP30 optical out without any problems and the receiver showed it was playing 96KHz/Format 3/2/.1.

Sparky66

12-24-05, 03:34 AM

Josh,
correct me if I'm wrong but HDMI 1.1 supports multichannel audio while HDMI 1.0 supports only 2 channels of audio.Thats at least what was indicated when I purchased my Arcam DV29

Just a follow-up on this: I confirmed with NeuNeo that their DVD player only supports HDMI 1.1, which can only carry 2-channel sound.

So the problem is with the DVD player, not the VP30.

John P.

12-24-05, 09:24 AM

Yay! I received my VP30 today, and have just hooked it up.

After a little fiddling about (I do have a problem that I also had with the iScan HD, but I think I'll make a separate thread for that), and after getting used to the new menus and menu choices, I was up and running pretty quickly.

Now that I've adjusted the image's aspect ratio etc. from my digital cable box (only SD), I must say it really looks good! Right now there's a Christmas special with 3D characters from the Disney universe, and it seriously looks like what I'm used to seeing from DVD with the old iScan HD!

Of course - it's a little early to tell, but it really does look like a big improvement in PQ to me right now.

A couple of thoughts:

I don't have a problem with the remote, but then again I have a small living room.

What does the Sharpness control do exactly? It looks like edge enhancement in some places, but is it more advanced than that?

I still curse a little every time I push the Exit button to go back to the previous menu page, and the whole menu disappears instead. But I think it's better this new way, as soon as I get used to it. Pushing the back button to go back makes more sense.

Wow - I'm looking at my TV now (a two and a half year old Samsung plasma)....

-Thanks DVDO, for making my old POS TV into a HD set! (well, almost...) :)

Haven't gotten the chance to watch any DVDs yet, but I'm looking forward to it!

darryl b

12-24-05, 09:25 AM

hey quick questions,
anyone here using denon receiver and the vp30?
does this work if the video signals from set-top boxes or dvd go through the vp30 first and then the receiver? or is best to bypass the receiver? or should sources be routed through the receiver first, then vp30?

i have a vp on order, hoping to scale my cable and 4:3 dvd to my widescreen. wondering how this will work.

thanks

vinodk

12-24-05, 09:59 AM

flyingvee

12-24-05, 10:10 AM

daryl b - why would you want to route video thru the receiver? I have only a Yamaha, but am only running the digital audio out to the receiver - route video direct to projector. I had thought to route extra sources thru receiver to VP, but then, DUH - need to route sound back thru receiver from VP. OK - the yamaha will do it, but so far don't need the extra inputs. Got them all full, but so far, I'm good.

Dale Adams

12-24-05, 10:30 AM

What does the Sharpness control do exactly? It looks like edge enhancement in some places, but is it more advanced than that?
It's a 2-dimensional filter which affects the high frequency response of the image. Unlike most sharpness controls, this one is applied both horizontally and vertically. I don't know the exact characteristics of the filter being used, but I think it's a bandpass of some sort which is added-to or subtracted-from the image.

I still curse a little every time I push the Exit button to go back to the previous menu page, and the whole menu disappears instead. But I think it's better this new way, as soon as I get used to it. Pushing the back button to go back makes more sense.
Yeah, I did that too for a while. Once you get used to it you'll be fine. The interface as a whole is a lot more consistent this way, which is why the change was made.

- Dale Adams

darryl b

12-24-05, 12:39 PM

psychdoc

12-24-05, 03:03 PM

aaronwt

12-24-05, 03:54 PM

I can get it to work at 720P but not 1080P. I had the same results with the HD+.

psychdoc

12-24-05, 08:58 PM

Thanks for the reply. I guess I am still wondering if that does any good. Will sending the Sammy a 720 over vga from the VP30 improve anything compared to sending it 1080 over hdmi? Since the Sammy will still be doing a large chunk of the work in both situations, do you feel the VP30 is improving your picture at all?? I am starting to have my doubts about the VP30 really impacting the picture. It might just end up being an expensive hdmi swither for those with the 1080p Sammy dlp's.

pjr

12-25-05, 12:30 AM

Has anyone been able to get the VP30 to work over VGA with a Sammy 1080p????????????

I just got my VP30 yesterday and need to know if I am wasting my time with that issue. Thanks and Merry Christmas.
I have been asking the same question, as I have the cable and same equipment, but don't know where to start for settings. It would seem to me that unless you can get it to work at 1080p, you are wasting your time. Josh thought that he might have a chance to try one. I hope he does, but if not maybe we can try to figure the different settings to try. I feel like I should at least try. :confused:

c722

12-25-05, 02:54 AM

HDMI 1.0 carries PCM, DD & DTS whereas 1.1 adds DVD-Audio support. With Pioneer 59AVi connected to VP30 via just HDMI I have no problem getting DD & DTS through coaxial digital out of VP30. Pioneer 59AVi has only HDMI 1.0. One problem with 59AVi is it is not passing BTB in 480i via HDMI, it only does that at resolutions 480p & above.

Yes the pio59 does. Do a search in the pio 59 thread in the dvd player's forum. Basically u need to put IRE7.5 and black bar -1 from center. The only thing that's not sure is whether it passes YCbCr or RGB. Seems RGB only. Can any one try ?

John P.

12-25-05, 05:19 AM

(I do have a problem that I also had with the iScan HD, but I think I'll make a separate thread for that)

I'm quoting myself here, because know what?? DVDO has fixed my problem!!

I did have some initial setup problems, similar to what I had with the iScan HD on my plasma display, but now that it's set up properly, everything works!

-To make a long story short; I have a Samsung plasma that came with its own tuner box, but since I have digital cable, and an external scaler, I ditched the plasma's tuner box. So the iScan HD before, and now the VP30, is directly connected to the panel via DVI-D (HDMI --> DVI-D with the VP30).

With the iScan HD, every time I wanted to watch TV I had to turn on the iScan HD, and then in addition go into the HD menu and either flip back and forth between the Sync modes, or flip back and forth between 'Video' and 'PC' output in order to "wake" the plasma panel up. If I didn't do that, the panel would be on, but black(no picture). This has been a pain in the donkey ( ;) ).

-But with the VP30, after I have now initially setup the correct output resolution, Sync, etc. etc., all I have to do to turn the plasma panel on and get a picture instantly from now on, is simply turn the iScan VP30 on! And to turn the plasma panel off, I turn the VP30 off. Just the way I've wanted it to work.

Not sure if DVDO has 'fixed' my problem specifically, or if there is a malfunction in the HD I've had. It had the latest firmware and everything.

But it works now with the VP30.

So far I'm very happy with the VP30. :)

Mike N Ike

12-25-05, 05:46 PM

The only thing that's not sure is whether it passes YCbCr or RGB. Seems RGB only. Can any one try ?

Just got my VP30 Friday so haven't had much time to play. But my Pio 59avi will pass either YCbCr or RGB over HDMI to the VP30. I am using 480i over HDMI from the 59 to the VP30. If you set the "HDMI Color Adjust" parameter on the 59avi to 'Standard' you get YCbCr 4:4:4 out. If you set it to 'Enhanced' you get RGB out. I'm still playing to see which I like best. Also anxious to hear what the experts have to say about which setting is better.

On another note: When I ordered the VP30 I was concerned that any PQ improvement might turn out to be something discernable on a calibration disk but not really noticeable when watching DVD's. That is NOT the case! The picture is out-of-the-box wonderful! My screen is 48" x 112" (2.35:1) - from what I've read here the smaller the screen the less improvement you will see. But for me this has been a very wothwhile addition. Even the WAF said "it looks a lot better!"

Since 98% of our viewing is DVD's, I haven't taken the time yet to see if there's any PQ differences with other sources.

Merry Christmas to all!

Mike

c722

12-26-05, 04:22 AM

Just got my VP30 Friday so haven't had much time to play. But my Pio 59avi will pass either YCbCr or RGB over HDMI to the VP30. I am using 480i over HDMI from the 59 to the VP30. If you set the "HDMI Color Adjust" parameter on the 59avi to 'Standard' you get YCbCr 4:4:4 out. If you set it to 'Enhanced' you get RGB out.

Thank you mike ! This is the 1st confirmation from a real video processor that the 59 also does YCbCr!

any PQ improvement might turn out to be something discernable on a calibration disk but not really noticeable when watching DVD's. That is NOT the case! The picture is out-of-the-box wonderful! My screen is 48" x 112" (2.35:1)

u know what, my screen is almost the same as yours (114" wide). And I also had the same concern as you ("will the improvement over plain 59 be marginal at best ?") So at least on this size it's significant. hmmm... maybe I should stop waiting for the VP40 ...

kolvadw

12-26-05, 09:05 AM

HI, got my VP30 set up over the weekend and fished a new HDMI cable through the ceiling so I now have my Sharp projector running digital instead of Analog. The VP30 works great and fixed a number of problems I had with the HD+. I've got both video and audio switched through the VP30 and a single digital out to my Denon amp and like being back to one button AV switching again... :)

The one problem I haven't got sorted out yet is my PC. I have it working through the RGB port no problem but wanted to run it through the digital side as well using a DVI to HDMI cable. If I have that port selected when the PC boots up then the VP30 shows the image fine over HDMI, but once I've booted up and running, if I change to another source and change back I don't get a picture, just a blue screen. Anyone else experiencing this or come up with a way to get around it?

Don

vinodk

12-26-05, 10:07 AM

Thank you c722 for your help. I was able to make 59AVi pass BTB @ 480i by setting the IRE to 7.5.

hdefjunkie

12-26-05, 01:31 PM

The one problem I haven't got sorted out yet is my PC. I have it working through the RGB port no problem but wanted to run it through the digital side as well using a DVI to HDMI cable. If I have that port selected when the PC boots up then the VP30 shows the image fine over HDMI, but once I've booted up and running, if I change to another source and change back I don't get a picture, just a blue screen. Anyone else experiencing this or come up with a way to get around it?

Don

Same thing here.. I've tried a number of things trying to "resync" the
video with no avail. Would also be interested if anyone has any ideas.

doseofrealta

12-26-05, 06:56 PM

Same thing here.. I've tried a number of things trying to "resync" the
video with no avail. Would also be interested if anyone has any ideas.

I wonder if this is the PC doing this? Doesn't Gefen make a box that helps with this situation? DVI Detective or something like that.

doseofrealta

12-26-05, 06:56 PM

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1378

( I needed a fifth posts before I could put the link up)

markrubin

12-26-05, 07:06 PM

the Gefen DVI detective is a neat device and works well:

but note it is only suitable for a PC since it cannot do an HDCP handshake

collinp

12-27-05, 05:03 AM

It's probably right in front of me, but I can't seem to find where the remote codes to select the preset aspect ratios are documented. I'm referring specifically to discrete IR codes for selecting options from the "INPUT ASP. RATIO" -> "Preset" menu. The VP30 remote has just "16:9 F. Frame" and "4:3 F. Frame" buttons. On my HD+ I also had an LBX discrete code and a code to toggle through the 4 User Preset options. These codes no longer seem to work. Info on a replacement for these codes or even better discrete codes for the entire "Preset" menu would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Collin

Josh Z

12-28-05, 10:28 AM

I upgraded from the HD+ to the VP30 and also added a new projector (Mitsubishi HC3000) at the same time, so I am not sure if the problem I'm having is in the VP30 or the projector. Connected by HDMI, when sending a YCbCr signal the projector will not display blacker-than-black or whiter-than-white. In fact, on the Avia test patterns even the above-black and below-white moving bars are crushed beyond display. It's almost as if this were a difference between "Video" and "PC" values, but the option to change that is disabled with YCbCr. Switching to RGB resolves this, but then I get terrible macroblocking.

Again, I'm not sure if this is the projector at fault or the VP30. Has anyone else successfully gotten blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white to display using YCbCr?

vn2000

12-28-05, 11:11 AM

c722 and vnodk: are IRE and back bar setting on the player or on VP30? How do you set them up? Thanks for your help.

Vinh

hdefjunkie

12-28-05, 01:05 PM

flyingvee

12-28-05, 05:55 PM

The Vp30 is my first video processor so this could be normal, but when switching
from SD(480i) to HD (720p/1080i) channels on my SA3250HD, the H79 will
re-sync, search for signal and eventually find it.

I thought the VP30 would be able to keep the projector sync'd no matter
what the input format?

no, doubt if it would be "normal" - I don't have that problem when switching inputs, with rgbhv out, but my pj does have the resynch problem when PS2 - at 480i, Svideo input, goes from load screen to game screen. Did NOT do that with archaic DVDO Iscan Pro, so has to be a bug in the VP30.

c722

12-28-05, 09:39 PM

c722 and vnodk: are IRE and back bar setting on the player or on VP30? How do you set them up? Thanks for your help.

Vinh

on the player; start with the DIRECT mode and scroll down to change the IRE level and various black/white/noise adjustments etc.

hdefjunkie

12-28-05, 10:52 PM

Gary Murrell

12-28-05, 11:03 PM

Dave that problem is of interest to me also, let us know what you here back, resyncing of one's display is a pain in the ass :(

-Gary

Phoster

12-28-05, 11:40 PM

no, doubt if it would be "normal" - I don't have that problem when switching inputs, with rgbhv out, but my pj does have the resynch problem when PS2 - at 480i, Svideo input, goes from load screen to game screen. Did NOT do that with archaic DVDO Iscan Pro, so has to be a bug in the VP30.

I have noticed a similar problem with my VP30 and Sanyo Z4. When switching from a static display, such as a menu screen, from my Denon DVD player or Toshiba RD-SX32 recorder, the display loses sync then eventually recovers. I discovered that resetting the DVD players to 480i vice 480p solved the problem. I did not have this problem on my old DVDO iScan HD.

jcg

12-28-05, 11:47 PM

My VP30 arrices tomorrow and still waiting on a reply to this question as this will be one of the first things I want to get working. Thanks.

jcg

Anyone using the VP30 with a Panny AE900? If so I'm wondering if anyone has 1:1 pixel mapping working yet, and if so any comments on getting it setup.

jcg

Josh Z

12-29-05, 10:26 AM

Josh Z

12-29-05, 10:32 AM

I also want to add that I really dislike the new aspect ratio toggling function on the VP30 remote. It was much better on the HD/HD+.

I have a fixed 2.35:1 screen, and if I want to move from a 16:9 pillarboxed image (a trailer, for example) to full-width 2.35:1 (saved as Preset 1), before I could just push the "Custom" button and the aspect ratio would expand seamlessly. Now a menu pops up on screen and I have to cycle through 4 options to get to Preset 1.

Could the next firmware change this back to the way it used to be?

SJHT

12-29-05, 11:10 AM

Gshepherdogs

12-29-05, 11:17 AM

I have an HD and am inputting to a Mitsubishi PD-5010 Plasma. Have had the HD since beta testing and am very happy with the performance I have had since day one.

I am planning on upgrading to the VP30 and am wondering if anyone can commment on whether there are any issues with the HDMI output inputting to a DVI/HDCP display. The Mitsubishi will accept a DVI/HDCP input from a DVI DVD player. So, theoretically I should not have a problem. Just hoping someone has experience with this model or one of its sister displays, ie, an NEC or Marantz?

Larry J

12-29-05, 01:50 PM

I was wondering if anyone knows if there is something like a master preset/profile, that will save all settings. I've been playing with a Dvdo VP30, but haven't decided if I'll keep one for myself or not.

In the output menu I create a custom aspect ratio and save it as profile 4. But I also change the zoom in the input menu. So when I select profile 4 I get my custom setting but the zoom will not be saved. I have to use a preset for that.

Because I'm doing two things with the same input, I cannot just leave it as a user setting. Anyway, the thing is I have to change both the profile an preset and I was wondering if I'm missing a way to save everything with just the profile setting.

I'm not in front of the VP30 right now so I've kind of forgot the exact langauge of some of the menu's, but I think what I'm saying should be clear enough to understand what I mean.

Also, while it doesn't mean anything to me, but the manual said after setting up a profile the saved icon would be grayed out, until actual changes are made to the profile, but it isn't grayed out on mine.

For me the VP30 is slightly improving my HD from a Directivo. I can up the sharpness just a little bit and there is no doubt its a sharper and somewhat more vivid picture, than I can get without it. I'm only using the HDMI out of the receiver. I'm still playing around with it, but in my system I'm using right now, it does make it look better. Its on a 110 inch dia. screen.

Its improving my dvd from my htpc also, but but I'm still looking that over. I use TT with ffdshow, so I'm still checking that out to see whats the best way to use it.

brigont

12-29-05, 03:30 PM

collinp

12-29-05, 03:57 PM

Seems like they could add discrete codes for this? I looked on their website, but could not find the presets (they have many others)... SJ

I too would really like to see some discretes for aspect ratio presets beyond 4:3 and 16:9. There is no way my wife is going to bother digging through menus to change aspect ratios nor do I particularly want to deal with it.

- Collin

hdefjunkie

12-29-05, 04:39 PM

jcg

12-29-05, 04:44 PM

Just got my VP30 and is it just me or does it seem like an oversight not to include some kind of adapter to convert from the VP30's output connectors to a standard component RCA type connector. I didn't even notice it until after I had ripped out all my cables and started to connect things back up. So now I need to head out to a Radio Shack and try and find some adapters before I can even see if I get a picture to my TV. Seems like for the price of the unit they could have included the adapters since most people will need them.

jcg

Lefreck

12-29-05, 05:08 PM

Anyone know if the VP30 passes BTB (Blacker than black)? With my Denon 3910
wired straight to a H79 projector I can see the drop shadow on the THX
optimizer. With the VP30 in the mix, BTB seems to be lost :(
I'm also using a Denon 3910 with my Optoma H78 and am considering the VP30. Besides the BTB loss, did picture quality improve with the VP30?

Gary Murrell

12-29-05, 06:03 PM

JCG buy some nice handmade BNC to RCA Component cables from www.Bluejeanscable.com, the Radio Shack adapters will set you back 13$ or so

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/component/componentprices.htm

most folks will be using this device with HDMI/DVI or RGBHV output, I would think very few will be using it with the analog component connection

-Gary

donjulio

12-29-05, 06:09 PM

hdefjunkie and lefreck,

Have you set the HDMI output on the 3910 for "enhanced output" and then have you tried changing the VP30 Input Colorspace? I wonder if this will get you BTB?

flyingvee

12-29-05, 06:10 PM

I'll concur with those who are having problems with the VP30 losing sync when switching resolutions or when switching inputs. In fact, when I had my VP30 set to HDMI 1 last night, when I turned off the DVD player that was using that input the VP30 completely froze up and started displaying a screwy flickering image on the screen. I was unable to switch to other inputs or do anything until I turned the HDMI 1 DVD player back on, at which point the VP30 rescynced and went back to normal operation. I never had this problem with the HD+.

Yup, just ran into that myself - or at least, a problem with HDMI-1 - was working fine, but then came back from holidays, and NO WAY would it work. It even kept my Samsung 165 from having a front panel display. - it would turn on, but no panel display ("HELLO") or anything else. As soon as I disconnected from VP30 the 165 would light up and operate properly. I connected to HDMI-2 and all was fine. Will have to see if it still works tonight. (BTW - DVI out of STB, HDMI in on VP30, using their cable. and cable is still good, since it now works thru HDMI-2)

hdefjunkie

12-29-05, 06:11 PM

I'm also using a Denon 3910 with my Optoma H78 and am considering the VP30. Besides the BTB loss, did picture quality improve with the VP30?

I can honestly say that I noticed a marginal improvement in DVD picture quality.
The 3910 produces such an excellent picture. The SD side is where I noticed the
most improvement over the scaler in the H79. I was on the fence between the
Lumagen and VP30, the switching and trancoding features of the VP30 pushed
me over the edge. I realize the VP30 is fresh out of the frying pan, but there
are a few issues that have been brought to DVDO's attention.

o) VP30 can't negotiate with my Pioneer 1014tx receiver for the optical audio
switching and lip sync correction
o) The H79 still does a re-sync when switching between SD and HD sources.
o) BTB not being passed

hdefjunkie

12-29-05, 06:14 PM

hdefjunkie and lefreck,

Have you set the HDMI output on the 3910 for "enhanced output" and then have you tried changing the VP30 Input Colorspace? I wonder if this will get you BTB?

I haven't ventured into using the HDMI interface yet. Perhaps it might work
better, although I'd like to send 480i to the VP30 and I don't believe the
3910 will output 480i over HDMI. Presently I have my SA3250HD and
3910 connected via component and then HDMI->DVI to the projector.

donjulio

12-29-05, 06:26 PM

Losing SYNC from VP30 to display device?

Is your VP30 in Auto Standby? I am not in front of my VP30 now, so I cannot check to see if what is happening, but if the VP30 is in auto standby, this could be the sync problem, just a thought.

hdefjunkie

12-29-05, 06:32 PM

jcg

12-29-05, 07:04 PM

Couldn't wait to place an order and get special cables, plus I already have regular component cables. So went to Rat Shack and 3 BNC->RCA connectors was $16. Since almost every piece of equipment today uses RCA for component connectors I'm still puzzeled why the VP30 doesn't use them too. They should have either included the converter connectors or used RCA connectors and then force the few people that want BNC to buy the converters. Anyways I'll stop ranting now :)

jcg

JCG buy some nice handmade BNC to RCA Component cables from www.Bluejeanscable.com, the Radio Shack adapters will set you back 13$ or so

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/component/componentprices.htm

most folks will be using this device with HDMI/DVI or RGBHV output, I would think very few will be using it with the analog component connection

-Gary

jcg

12-29-05, 07:10 PM

danielo

12-29-05, 07:20 PM

Ok... so smack me... I bought a Panny S97 upconverting DVD player with the hopes it would enhance PQ (for a minimal price point). Unfortunately, the macroblocking with my Panny 50PHD7UY is unbearable. So, I am ready to hand myself over to DVDO for help.

Does anyone have their V30 running with an upconverting player?

If so - can you please help me with the following questions:

1. Are you using the component output to bypass DVD based upconversion or are you still going dvi/hdmi from DVD to the V30?
2. If you are running DVI/HDMI can you tell me what you did to control internal scaling/processing?
3. What about adjusting Chroma / Cadence / and other settings? Are you adjusting at DVD player level or can the adjustments be made at the V30 Level?
4. Is there a way to auto adjust for 4:3 video content? My movies are all 16:9... it's my kids "Bob The Builder" and "dora" DVD's that I want to be sure are streched to take up the entire screen.

My HD content looks amazing... Just looking to better my DVD PQ and make SD programming bearable (I don't really need to see Emeril in HD anyway).

Thanks in Advance.

BG

1) most will leave the upscaling to the vp30 its better than the faroudja in most upscaling dvd players.

2) No most will feed it 480p or 576p if they must from the dvdplayer over hdmi but if the player allows it they will use 480i or 576i over hdmi. Before players where available that allowed 480i/576i over hdmi they added sdi output to their dvd players (still a great option)

3) Most i guess will use the controls inside the vp30, in my case i use a sdi player so most if not all control is then dead since its bypassed in the dvd player.

4) the vp30 has alot of ways to add aspect control to the signals and save them in presets it doesn't auto detect (as far as i know) you allways need to touch a button
on your remote).

Its late hope i didn't make too much mistakes.

Daniel.

danielo

12-29-05, 07:26 PM

OK, so started playing with the VP30 and have a few questions. I have my Pioneer 79AVi connected to the VP30 with both component cables and HDMI, and then the VP30 outputs to my TV via component (1080i) and my Panny AE900 projector via HDMI (720p). I need to use the underscan feature (under output setup/aspect ratio) for the TV, but once I set that it keeps the setup even if I switch to the digital output for the AE900 (and here I don't want any underscan). Anyway to keep the settings for analog output and digital output seperate?

Also what test pattern is used to see if I'm getting 1:1 pixel mapping on the AE900? Thanks.

jcg

checkerboard should give you 1 by 1 black and white blocks, vert. lines an hor. lines can also give you a idea whats up.

you can save 4 output settings but before that option is active in the output menu you have to set the use mode from normal to advanced. You can set that in configureation/user mode.

Hope this helps,

Daniel.

danielo

12-29-05, 07:30 PM

Couldn't wait to place an order and get special cables, plus I already have regular component cables. So went to Rat Shack and 3 BNC->RCA connectors was $16. Since almost every piece of equipment today uses RCA for component connectors I'm still puzzeled why the VP30 doesn't use them too. They should have either included the converter connectors or used RCA connectors and then force the few people that want BNC to buy the converters. Anyways I'll stop ranting now :)

jcg

They changed that from the old models since most people who use the analog out prefer bnc's to rca plugs they provide for a more stable connection. If you can don't use convertors either but get a cable with the correct plugs. The hd/hd+ had a vga out instead of the bnc's and most consider this a huge step forward (esp. crt users).

Daniel.

Exile

12-29-05, 08:27 PM

jcg

12-29-05, 08:34 PM

OK, more questions / issues. With my old setup I would set the 79Avi DVD player to 1080i (using component outputs to TV for this testing) and put in the disc and no matter what format it was it just worked. Now with the VP30 I tried SWAT widescreen edition (it is a 2.40:1 anamorphic DVD), but to get it to display right I need to go into input aspect ratio - frame aspect ratio, and it needs to be on 4:3 to display correctly? From reading the manual it seems that for widescreen anamorphic DVDs I should always have the frame aspect ration set to 16:9? When I play Finding Nemo I need to set it to 16:9 for it to display correctly, and it is a 1.85 widescreen DVD. The output aspect is set to 16:9 for both display and screen.

The other thing is the active aspect ratio setting. Does this actually have to be set on a per DVD basis? As I said before if the DVD was 1.78, 1.85 or 2.35 I just played it and the picture was correct in the old setup. I'm hoping I'm doing something wrong as if I have to go in and set the active aspect ratio for each DVD then I don't think I will be keeping the VP30.

Also I have the 79Avi set to ouput 480i now (and have the progressive modes off). Could that be causing an issue? The whole reason I got the 79AVi is that is has the 480i (even on HDMI) so hopefully that's not it.

jcg

Gary Murrell

12-29-05, 08:38 PM

BNC connectors are a much better connection over RCA, RCA connectors on a piece of gear in this price range are not "High End" enough ;) and are a Godsend for CRT PJ users and are no doubt a massive improvement over the VGA connector

-Gary

SJHT

12-29-05, 08:51 PM

The Vp30 is my first video processor so this could be normal, but when switching
from SD(480i) to HD (720p/1080i) channels on my SA3250HD, the H79 will
re-sync, search for signal and eventually find it.

I thought the VP30 would be able to keep the projector sync'd no matter
what the input format?

The syncing between my VP30 and H79 also seems to work intermittently (say 50%) when switching between sources. Make sure you source lock your H79 as this really helps it recover quickly. The H79 is really slow in searching through the sources. I have mine source locked on the DVI input. This really works great. I now ONLY use the DVI input to the H79. I got rid of all the other cables! SJ

c722

12-29-05, 09:09 PM

Does this actually have to be set on a per DVD basis? As I said before if the DVD was 1.78, 1.85 or 2.35 I just played it and the picture was correct in the old setup. I'm hoping I'm doing something wrong as if I have to go in and set the active aspect ratio for each DVD then I don't think I will be keeping the VP30.

no no u dun need to go in and change every time. if u r using a 16:9 PJ/TV, always do 16:9 for both. 1.78/1.85/2.35/2.4 whatever are already framed properly inside the 16:9 area.

U come to differentiate with "active" area when u r doing something more "creative", for example vertical stretching to fill an anamorph lens.

btw make sure ur pio set to 16:9 wide, not compressed.

(I'm speaking from a HD+ experience though, but I really think they are the same on this part).

Gary Murrell

12-29-05, 10:03 PM

What cable lengths are folks using with the VP30 ??, I will need a 25 Foot HDMI to DVI cable and just wanted to make sure that I would not have issues at that length out of the VP30

I know over 15 feet is pushing it

-Gary

hdefjunkie

12-29-05, 10:05 PM

The syncing between my VP30 and H79 also seems to work intermittently (say 50%) when switching between sources. Make sure you source lock your H79 as this really helps it recover quickly. The H79 is really slow in searching through the sources. I have mine source locked on the DVI input. This really works great. I now ONLY use the DVI input to the H79. I got rid of all the other cables! SJ

Yep, source lock is on and only have one cable (DVI) connected between the
VP30 and H79. Everytime I jump between a SD and HD channel, the projector
needs to "re-sync" or perform a source search.

I'm using component inputs for my SA3250HD perhaps that is contributing to
the problem?

Gshepherdogs

12-29-05, 10:22 PM

I am planning on installing my VP30 this week-end, replacing an HD+. This connects to a Pan TH-65PHD7UY which has a resolution of 1366 x 768. I am getting 1:1 pixel mapping over DVI.

I have been reading that the HDMI chipset will only pass "standard" resolutions. Is that correct? Will the VP30 output custom resolutions over its HDMI output? I plan on keeping the DVI blade in the plasma and using a DVi-HDMI cable.

This speaks to my question as well. It was a real chore to get my Mitsubishi to sync properly using the DVI input and my HD. I posted my final results in the "Native Rez Thread" here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=394174
These displays are very finnicky when it comes to getting the display to accept 1:1 mapping. So, before I upgrade to a VP30, does it output custom rez on its' HDMI? This could be a real product killer for me.

Need to ask another very important question......
I have all my cables run through my walls on to my display. I really don't want to replace my DVI cable and run a new HDMI to DVI cable from the VP30 to the Mitsu. So, can I use an HDMI to DVI adapter from the VP30 to the DVI cable????

brigont

12-29-05, 11:36 PM

Robocop,

Check out the V30 manual... pages 32 - 35

http://www.dvdo.com/documents/DVDO_iScanVP30_PG_ABT_75-0239-01.pdf .

Handles a boatload of typical resolutions as well as the ability to tweak at a micro level... see the notes on the "advanced" menu (page 34).

Next, jump to page 41. There is a menu higherarchy that appears to show no connection between the input type (analog/digital) and the selected resolution. I imagine they would have seperate lists if there were different options for each.

Can someone please confirm this...

BG

flyingvee

12-30-05, 12:55 AM

OK - have everything else working, but no luck with feeding the HTPC to the VP - are there any tricks required? Feeding HD15 to the RGBHV inputs, but the VP doesn't even find the signal to the extent that I can adjust/fix anything. That is, there is no picture, but when I go to the INPUT adjust, there are no options, other than audio and input priority. If others have pcs working with the VP, would appreciate a tip.

thanks.

oferlaor

12-30-05, 02:42 AM

aaronwt

12-30-05, 06:36 AM

kolvadw

12-30-05, 09:35 AM

Gary,

At 25ft, you might be pushing it (depends on the resolution and quality of the cable).

If it doesn't work, you may have to get a DVI range extender. I had done some testing and reached around 48ft with 2 cables that had an active DVI range extender (unpowered!) in between them.

I got a 30ft triple shielded HDMI to DVI cable for my projector and the VP30 and it seems to work fine. At these lengths I recommend a good quality triple shielded cable. I think the picture is noticably clearer and sharper than my old HD+ VGA setup but fishing the cable through the rafters was quite a chore... :)

Don

hdefjunkie

12-30-05, 09:53 AM

vinodk

12-30-05, 10:06 AM

SJHT

12-30-05, 10:09 AM

SJHT

12-30-05, 10:13 AM

Yep, source lock is on and only have one cable (DVI) connected between the
VP30 and H79. Everytime I jump between a SD and HD channel, the projector
needs to "re-sync" or perform a source search.

I'm using component inputs for my SA3250HD perhaps that is contributing to
the problem?

I have a SA8300HD connected to mine. I really only use it for HD locals and have not tried it for SD channels. I know that sometimes when I switch to the cable GUIDE, my H79 has to resync. It only does this about 50% of the time. I'll try switching to a SD channel and let you know. I have the cable box connected via HDMI to the VP30 (and then to my H79)... SJ

Josh Z

12-30-05, 10:30 AM

OK, more questions / issues. With my old setup I would set the 79Avi DVD player to 1080i (using component outputs to TV for this testing) and put in the disc and no matter what format it was it just worked. Now with the VP30 I tried SWAT widescreen edition (it is a 2.40:1 anamorphic DVD), but to get it to display right I need to go into input aspect ratio - frame aspect ratio, and it needs to be on 4:3 to display correctly? From reading the manual it seems that for widescreen anamorphic DVDs I should always have the frame aspect ration set to 16:9? When I play Finding Nemo I need to set it to 16:9 for it to display correctly, and it is a 1.85 widescreen DVD. The output aspect is set to 16:9 for both display and screen.

With an anamorphic DVD like SWAT, both frame and screen should be set for 16:9 (unless you're using a 2.35:1 front projection screen). I can't account for why you're having problems. Are you sure both your Input and Output aspect ratio settings are correct?

donjulio

12-30-05, 10:37 AM

hdefjunkie

12-30-05, 10:56 AM

hdefjunkie - BTB with 3910?

Does the 3910 support "Enhanced" Black levels with component? Looking at the manual (I know the Denon manuals are a bit cryptic at times), I do not see a "Enhanced" black setting for component, I do see this for DVI and HDMI. Have you gotten BTB via component when not using VP30?

Yep, with the 3910 directly connected via component to the H79, BTB is passed.
With the HDMI connection, I didn't need to enable "enhanced" black, kept it on
normal and was able to see BTB.

jcg

12-30-05, 11:12 AM

I'm using a 50ft HDMI cable from RAM and it works. Had to return a 50 ft HDMI cable from monoprice, so it is very cable dependent once you get into these long runs.

jcg

What cable lengths are folks using with the VP30 ??, I will need a 25 Foot HDMI to DVI cable and just wanted to make sure that I would not have issues at that length out of the VP30

I know over 15 feet is pushing it

-Gary

danielo

12-30-05, 11:19 AM

Hi Guys!
I moved the SDI module from IScan HD+ to VP30 but the VP30 menu does not show any SDI input. Do I have to download the software from the CD that came with SDI kit or the SDI input show up in the menu only when it is used for the first time? I am waiting to get back my Carmen II from Theta after SDI mod.
Thanks.

No it should pop up in the options list right away its the last in the list after hdmi4 you might have to scroll down ! Don't install the software on the cd it was made for older models. I did the same thing move the sdi from a hd+ to a vp30 without any problems.

Daniel.

kpepling

12-30-05, 11:26 AM

hdefjunkie

12-30-05, 12:16 PM

I have 4 component sources that I need to hook up to my VP30. Currently I run 3 of them through my receiver and into the VP30. I have all the audio cables directly connected to the VP30 and then one cable heading out to my receiver. How can I get the VP30 to change audio inputs on the same video input without having to manually select which audio input to use every time?

Pg. 15 of the manual seems to suggest that one can assign an audio input to
a given video input. Based on your description, is the VP30 not remembering
this assignment when switching from source to source?

kpepling

12-30-05, 12:19 PM

My problem is that I have one video input that needs 3 audio inputs.

hdefjunkie

12-30-05, 12:22 PM

My problem is that I have one video input that needs 3 audio inputs.

I suppose one way would be to do the audio and video switching at the receiver,
then the VP30 would only have to worry about a single video and audio input.
Kind of defeats the switching aspects of the VP30 though. :(

Josh@dvdo

12-30-05, 12:27 PM

Need to ask another very important question......
I have all my cables run through my walls on to my display. I really don't want to replace my DVI cable and run a new HDMI to DVI cable from the VP30 to the Mitsu. So, can I use an HDMI to DVI adapter from the VP30 to the DVI cable????

This should not be a problem...but be aware that not all adapters are the same. The one that we sell on our website can pass 1080p whereas the one currently being offered by a very large cable company can not.

Josh@dvdo

12-30-05, 12:30 PM

Next, jump to page 41. There is a menu higherarchy that appears to show no connection between the input type (analog/digital) and the selected resolution. I imagine they would have seperate lists if there were different options for each.

Can someone please confirm this...

I think you meant to say that there is no connection between the output type and the selected resolution. This is correct.

Josh@dvdo

12-30-05, 12:32 PM

Josh@dvdo

12-30-05, 12:33 PM

Hi Guys!
I moved the SDI module from IScan HD+ to VP30 but the VP30 menu does not show any SDI input. Do I have to download the software from the CD that came with SDI kit or the SDI input show up in the menu only when it is used for the first time? I am waiting to get back my Carmen II from Theta after SDI mod.
Thanks.

The software included with the SDI module is only needed for the iScan HD, and in that case only if the software is older than 1.09.

Josh@dvdo

12-30-05, 12:35 PM

I have 4 component sources that I need to hook up to my VP30. Currently I run 3 of them through my receiver and into the VP30. I have all the audio cables directly connected to the VP30 and then one cable heading out to my receiver. How can I get the VP30 to change audio inputs on the same video input without having to manually select which audio input to use every time?

One option is using a macro on your remote control to switch the audio inputs. On our website right now, the discrete codes for Audio 1-4 are posted. Analog and HDMI will be posted soon.

Josh Z

12-30-05, 12:50 PM

I'm wondering if the problems the VP30 has resyncing every time a video input or resolution is changed can be improved through a firmware upgrade, or if this is entirely a hardware issue? Funny that the HD+ never had these problems.

I have 2 DVD players connected, and for my reviews I sometimes need to do side-by-side comparisons of 2 releases of the same movie. This was a breeze on the HD+, which allowed me to switch back and forth between the inputs very quickly. The VP30 takes almost 30 seconds to resync every time I switch inputs, which makes it very difficult to remember what the last frame looked like before the next one comes up.

kpepling

12-30-05, 12:56 PM

Thanks Josh. Didn't realize you had discrete codes for the audio inputs. Now I need to finally reprogram my Pronto for all the new components i've bought :).

brigont

12-30-05, 01:05 PM

Anyone using the Harmony 880 to control their VP30 enabled theaters.

If so, what is the experience like... do you have any tips on custom configurations of the remote?

thanks

BG

jcg

12-30-05, 01:14 PM

I set Input Aspect Ratio / Preset / 16:9 Full Frame and now the DVD is working fine. I also have my DVD player set to 16:9 as it always was.

But now I have a different issue. With my HD receiver watching HD programming I get different images on the TV depending on how I set the HD receiver's output. If I set it to 1080i and the VP30 to 1080i I'm assuming it's just doing a passthru and everything works fine (just as it did when I had the HD receiver going directly to the TV). But if I set the HD receiver to output 480p I get gray bars on the top/bottom of the picture, and it is squished vertically. I tried setting the VP30 to the same 16:9 Full frame and no difference. Any ideas? Seems like if I go in and set the frame aspect ratio to 4:3 it streches the picture vertically again, and it fills the screen. Something obviously isn't right.

jcg

With an anamorphic DVD like SWAT, both frame and screen should be set for 16:9 (unless you're using a 2.35:1 front projection screen). I can't account for why you're having problems. Are you sure both your Input and Output aspect ratio settings are correct?

SJHT

12-30-05, 01:32 PM

I have a SA8300HD connected to mine. I really only use it for HD locals and have not tried it for SD channels. I know that sometimes when I switch to the cable GUIDE, my H79 has to resync. It only does this about 50% of the time. I'll try switching to a SD channel and let you know. I have the cable box connected via HDMI to the VP30 (and then to my H79)... SJ

OK, I tried this. Works fine on my setup. However, I'm converting all channels (HD and SD) to 720p before inputting into the VP30. Interesting, I also figured out that my H79 only resyncs the first time I go to the cable guide. After it has done this once, it doesn't seem to do it again (even when I go to a channel and then back to the guide). SJ

GerryWaz

12-30-05, 01:44 PM

Anyone using the Harmony 880 to control their VP30 enabled theaters.

If so, what is the experience like... do you have any tips on custom configurations of the remote?

thanks

BG

I've had some success. I had to add (have the 880 learn) the commands that I wanted--the default VP30 commands on the Harmony website were barebones at best.

(My biggest problem was just getting on the Logitech Harmony site earlier this week to tweak the remote. It was really busy there after Christmas.)

I think I added Power Toggle, Standby, Input SDI (from my DVD player), Input HDMI4 (input from my HD cable box), 4:3, 16:9, and a couple of others.

For Activites, I think I had to play around with Watch DVD and Watch TV a few times before I got everything to work right. I kept getting the blinking blue VP30 light the first time I turned everything on. Not sure what I did exactly, but now it seems to work okay. (With fingers crossed . . . :rolleyes: )

I still have to point the remote almost straight on to get the signal to work with the VP30. I have some simple SpeakerCraft ILC-1.0 IR light collectors on order that I hope will address that (these were recommended earlier in this thread - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6758856&&#post6758856 ).

Anyone try these yet with the VP30? Will attaching them to the VP30's sensor window be a problem should I trade in the VP30 later (assuming there's a trade-in upgrade for the rumored VP40 or whatever it will be called)?

Hope this helps!

- Gerry

P.S. Just to echo everyone else's experience so far--sent my old iScan HD+ back last Friday for my upgrade credit. By Wednesday, DVDO had handled it very quickly and very professionally. Got confirming e-mails and the credit showed the next day on my credit card account. Very pleased.

jcg

12-30-05, 02:10 PM

hdefjunkie

12-30-05, 02:25 PM

OK, I tried this. Works fine on my setup. However, I'm converting all channels (HD and SD) to 720p before inputting into the VP30. Interesting, I also figured out that my H79 only resyncs the first time I go to the cable guide. After it has done this once, it doesn't seem to do it again (even when I go to a channel and then back to the guide). SJ

Yes, it does work as expected if the STB is doing the scaling to 720p. However,
if the scaling is left up to the VP30, a re-sync is caused when flipping between
channels with different formats (480i/720p/1080i).

I'd prefer the VP30 to do the scaling vs. the SA3250HD for SD channels, since I
believe (hope?) the scaling would be superior. :)

flyingvee

12-30-05, 02:35 PM

Try selecting the RGBHV input on the VP30 before you turn on the PC. In my experience with my laptop, the monitor out is not active unless it is connected at startup.

thanks for reply, Josh. I'm home now. HTPC is usually on - at least in standby. I finally got it to "wake up" by going into ATI advanced menu, and "forcing 720p." That displayed fine, as did forced 1080i. Once the inputs were active, than I could switch back to my normal desktop, and have the RGBHV input work on the VP30. I'm using a tower, ATI into an extron splitter. I switched the outputs, either one from the Extron works fine on my PC moniter, at any time. The VP30 couldn't find either one "green light" until I forced 720p.

Just shut off the vp, turned it back on. Now it "finds" my computer signal. Which is how it has been with other things - initially I have problems with inputs, once I get them to work, the VP "remembers."

pjr

12-30-05, 03:26 PM

Hi Guys!
I moved the SDI module from IScan HD+ to VP30 but the VP30 menu does not show any SDI input. Do I have to download the software from the CD that came with SDI kit or the SDI input show up in the menu only when it is used for the first time? I am waiting to get back my Carmen II from Theta after SDI mod.
Thanks.
I had the same problem. But, I had just not pushed it down enough to get it snapped in tight. :D

pjr

12-30-05, 03:28 PM

Does anyone know if a store carries the Speakercraft Infrared light collectores, so we can buy just one instead of ten?

Gshepherdogs

12-30-05, 03:48 PM

Josh Z

12-30-05, 04:08 PM

I can only speak to the mapping on a plasma display but, you will know its right when the image has no flicker whatsoever. Also, on mine, you can see the alternating pattern is literally on a per pixel basis. In other words, 1 grey pixel, 1 black pixel...

You know, I'm seeing a + pattern there just like jcg. What it looks like is a white screen with a pattern of many tiny dark gray + marks all over it.

I know what you are describing about the per-pixel checkerboard, which is what I saw with my last projector and the HD+. When I upgraded to the VP30 I also upgraded projectors and because that pattern looked perfectly solid (no noise like I had been seeing when I didn't get correct 1:1 mapping on my last projector) I just assumed that DVDO had changed the test pattern. But now I'm thinking that I'm not getting 1:1 mapping. Hmmm.... I'll have to play around with this more tonight.

GerryWaz

12-30-05, 04:26 PM

Does anyone know if a store carries the Speakercraft Infrared light collectores, so we can buy just one instead of ten?

pjr,

PM me with your address (if that's permitted--I'm not sure) and I'll send you one from the pack of ten I had to buy once they come in (assuming they work :) I ordered online two days ago from: http://www.avhifi.com/asp/product.asp?product=506 )

- Gerry

danielo

12-30-05, 04:56 PM

You know, I'm seeing a + pattern there just like jcg. What it looks like is a white screen with a pattern of many tiny dark gray + marks all over it.

I know what you are describing about the per-pixel checkerboard, which is what I saw with my last projector and the HD+. When I upgraded to the VP30 I also upgraded projectors and because that pattern looked perfectly solid (no noise like I had been seeing when I didn't get correct 1:1 mapping on my last projector) I just assumed that DVDO had changed the test pattern. But now I'm thinking that I'm not getting 1:1 mapping. Hmmm.... I'll have to play around with this more tonight.

It still works the same in checkerboard mode. So if you have 1:1 mapping you will see one pixel gray,black,gray etc etc. same with vert. and hor. test signals.

Daniel.

collinp

12-30-05, 05:05 PM

Still trying to figure out the 1:1 mapping issue. I have used the VP30 test patterns and have the ones with the vertical or horizontal lines, and I've used the ones with the + on it. But how do you know if you are getting 1:1 mapping with these patterns? Do you have to count the lines or something? This is with a Panny AE900 if that matters.

jcg

The + pattern (crosshatch) is actually more for tuning convergence. The three patterns most useful for 1:1 pixel mapping are :

Pattern 2 - Checkerboard
Pattern 3 - Vertical Lines
Pattern 4 - Horizontal Lines

Essentially if these patterns look uniform and each line or square looks about the size of a pixel you've got things set up right.

Pattern 2 is a black and white checkerboard pattern. It's like a chessboard where each square is a pixel. Ideally you'd like to be able to get really close and discern this pattern, but even some very good displays will have trouble resolving this pattern at native resolution. For instance the black squares will be grayish and hard to discern on the Samsung 1080p DLPs due to wobulation. The 1x1 Checkerboard is a grueling pattern and the inability to resolve it fully generally does not affect real program material.

This however is a separate issue from 1:1 pixel mapping which is sending the display information about each and every pixel on the screen, no more, no less. What you are looking for is the absence of scaling artifacts added by the display because the input resolution did not match the native resolution. Due to the nature of digital scaling vertical or horizontal lines of information will have to be duplicated or removed. On patterns like a 1x1 checkerboard this will cause some squares on the checkerboard to be larger than others, unless the scaling factor is large this results in some sort of larger pattern being easily discernible instead of just a uniform grey. If the scaling factor is large the display has more pixels to work with and the pattern may look more uniform, but in this case it should be clear that each square is actually made up of several pixels.

Enclosed is a snapshot from a 720p DLP of what the 1x1 checkerboard pattern should NOT look like.

- Collin

collinp

12-30-05, 05:07 PM

jcg

12-30-05, 05:12 PM

I played around with it some more switching between 1080i, 480p and 720p output modes on the VP30 with the gray/black test pattern up. In 720p mode it is definately very sharp and you can see each pixel, but when I change to 1080i or 480p the lines get fatter plus there is flicker, so I guess I'm seeing 1:1 pixel mapping.

This is the first time I've had a projector and tried to get this working so it's a bit of a learning experience. I was expecting some kind of pattern that had a distinct edge, say a pattern of 720 pixels with a black bar 10 pixels in on all sides. That way you could go up to the screen and count to make sure there were 10 pixels on each edge of the black bar, and that nothing was being cropped or there was some other issue. Of course they could do a similar pattern for the other resolutions also. With the current pattern I don't think you really can tell if the projector was doing any cropping which supposedly was an issue with the previous generation Panny AE700.

I also thought it was something the VP30 would have to do to get 1:1 mapping, but I guess even if I just set the DVD player to output 720p then I would still be getting 1:1 mapping. I don't have a test pattern like that on DVD, so I guess I can't verify that, but if someone knows for sure that this is the way it works please let me know.

jcg

I can only speak to the mapping on a plasma display but, you will know its right when the image has no flicker whatsoever. Also, on mine, you can see the alternating pattern is literally on a per pixel basis. In other words, 1 grey pixel, 1 black pixel...

Josh@dvdo

12-30-05, 05:19 PM

The 'Frame Geometry' test pattern (#1) is used to determine if you are getting any cropping. If you are seeing the checkerboard displayed correctly over the entire screen though, and you know the resolution you have chosen is the same as the display, you can assume you are getting 1:1 pixel mapping with no cropping.

collinp

12-30-05, 05:21 PM

Here's an informative old post from Mr. Adams of DVDO on iScan HD setup. This is all still applicable to the VP30.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3595166&&#post3595166

- Collin

Gshepherdogs

12-30-05, 06:34 PM

Just remember on fixed pixel displays such as plasmas, you can not simply feed it 720p and expect it to map out at 1:1. You have to input an exact (or as close as you can get) resolution which matches the pixel size, resolution of your panel. The only way to ensure this is working is to use test pattern 2 and 3. If you go to this thread, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=394174 you can see the exact timings many have used over the last two years on Iscans. These will still be relavent.

EricBergan

12-30-05, 06:37 PM

I just sent the following to help@dvdo.com, but suspect there may be a delay in getting a response with CES next week. Anyone having a similar problem? I've seen mention of other audio problems recently on the thread, but they didn't seem to be the same. Thanks!

My problem report:

"I just upgraded my iScan HD to a VP30, without changing anything else. We're now getting an audible pop, followed by a quiet, but very high pitched whine on our right speaker when we pause a DVD movie or TiVo program, or when switching between devices. None of this occurred with the iScan HD.

Our configuration is the the DVD player audio is connected to the VP30 via RCA digital, and the HD TiVo is via Toslink. The VP30 is then connected via RCA digital to a Theta Casanova.

Any suggestions? The whine is driving my family nuts... Thanks!"

brigont

12-30-05, 08:02 PM

I believe I have a handle on the preferred V30 settings...

Now how about the settings and/or advanced settings menu for the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD cable Box??? Can anyone who is using this box please share their recommendations on how to configure the box for passing the "optimal" image to the V30 for processing/scaling/etc.)?

I would love to get the videophile perspective (willing to make adjustments per source/show/soucedevice), as well as views of a "wife/kids mode"(requiring no added steps to watch good ol' tv) for one size fits all viewing from cable.

Thanks in advance and happy new years to everyone.

Brian

flint350

12-30-05, 09:52 PM

flyingvee

12-30-05, 11:28 PM

My problem report:

"I just upgraded my iScan HD to a VP30, without changing anything else. We're now getting an audible pop, followed by a quiet, but very high pitched whine on our right speaker when we pause a DVD movie or TiVo program, or when switching between devices. None of this occurred with the iScan HD.

Please post if you get a solution. Have similar problem, only worse (IMO.)

Watched my first dvd front to back with the VP30. Picture was gorgeous. Audio glitches MUST be fixed, or the VP goes back. Josh (or whoever checks things at DVDO) - put Star Wars III into my Denon 1600; optical audio from 1600 to VP 30; optical out from VP to Yamaha V1200. Let the opening menu cycle thru while waiting for wife - at end of menu, as the loop starts over, there is a VERY audible pop (like what I have changing channels on HD box) only louder. Loud enough that it could quite possibly damage tweeters. I have very robust JBL speakers - nothing was broken; had I been running my Maggies, I would bet the price of this unit that I would have either popped the protective fuses and/or the ribbons.

I either need a fix to this, or at least a firm promise of a fix, or the VP has to go back before I do damage to some expensive audio equipment. I love the unit - has simplified switching, like the ability to fix lip-synch problems, and the displayed image is as good as I've seen (I admit, haven't seen any stacked 9" but it does beat a pro setup stacked 8" I've seen.) The ir for the remote is weak, and pyramids didn't help my setup; I can live with the flakiness. I CANNOT live with huge audible pops that seem to occur at predictable instances. DVDO should be able to at least notice this problem; once they do that, there should be a fix.

Exile

12-31-05, 08:02 AM

The problem with cable boxes that I find, is that they support all of 480i, 720p and 1080i. So, it's nearly impossible to bypass the STB scaling to the VP30. You can only set one output for your HD (720p or 1080i) and have 480i overide on. Unless I am missing something, the cable box is scaling no matter what and then the VP30 re-scales, which is not so desirable. Sending a 480i signal out of a DVD is easy, but you can't do this with cable HD boxes and get the best result from the VP30. By the way, I'm using a Moto DCT-6412 DVI and Component out.

I have the same setup as yourself, and I thought that the way you described it meant that the VP does do the scaling. I have my 6412 set to output all the SD channels at 480i and the HD at 1080i. So I am assuming that the VP is the only box that is scaling/deinterlacing the SD channels.

I know that a couple of the broadcast HD channels use 720p, so they will be interlaced by the 6412 ( assuming of course that Comcast hasn't done something peculiar to them before transmitting) but everything else should by handled by the VP30 alone.

Is that right?

dlm10541

12-31-05, 08:55 AM

Based on my 2 weeks experience so far including a replacement unit, there appears to be some audio output bugs over HDMI inputs that is caused by switching sources ( or even stereo to Dolby) within a device. Using the digital audio inputs work fine. Video has always switched properly.

There have been times when all 4 devices behave but only after a hard reboot to the VP-30

I am using HDMI in on 4 devices, HDMI out to my display and digital out to my receiver.

I have no idea but perhaps additional audio output setup is required-it appears the VP-30 has trouble outputting changing audio streams. If these the outputs were locked by setup maybe it would be fine.

Anyone else with these problems?

dlm10541

12-31-05, 09:45 AM

In addition to the above when the audio faults sound disappears replaced with a rapid clicking sound.

For the first time I have no sound on 2 inputs after a reboot this morning including on a DVHS player that has never had a problem.

Note that I never had a problem with the HD+ with the same components. The VP-30 is the variable.

Gshepherdogs

12-31-05, 10:51 AM

EricBergan

12-31-05, 11:18 AM

In my case, the audio problems are unrelated to HDMI - I'm using component connections for both my DVD player and the HD TiVo unit, and hence separate digitial audio (one RCA, one Toslink) into the VP30. So I'm not sure its completely HDMI related.

brigont

12-31-05, 11:38 AM

The 50+ pages of discussion on this product are invaluable... The tech tips and identification of issues/solutions are worth their weight in gold (and time).

That said, I am curious to hear from members who (after configuring their V30) are getting stellar video beyong the scaling technology built into their Plasma's (my personal interest), projectors, etc.

It would be great to hear about the quality of:

HD Video
SD Video
DVD Video
Audio
Other.

Lets assume that everyone has configured the output of their V30 to match the native Res of their screen.

Thanks in advance and happy holidays.

BG

mskreis

12-31-05, 11:54 AM

Please post if you get a solution. Have similar problem, only worse (IMO.)

Watched my first dvd front to back with the VP30. Picture was gorgeous. Audio glitches MUST be fixed, or the VP goes back. Josh (or whoever checks things at DVDO) - put Star Wars III into my Denon 1600; optical audio from 1600 to VP 30; optical out from VP to Yamaha V1200. Let the opening menu cycle thru while waiting for wife - at end of menu, as the loop starts over, there is a VERY audible pop (like what I have changing channels on HD box) only louder. Loud enough that it could quite possibly damage tweeters. I have very robust JBL speakers - nothing was broken; had I been running my Maggies, I would bet the price of this unit that I would have either popped the protective fuses and/or the ribbons.

I either need a fix to this, or at least a firm promise of a fix, or the VP has to go back before I do damage to some expensive audio equipment. I love the unit - has simplified switching, like the ability to fix lip-synch problems, and the displayed image is as good as I've seen (I admit, haven't seen any stacked 9" but it does beat a pro setup stacked 8" I've seen.) The ir for the remote is weak, and pyramids didn't help my setup; I can live with the flakiness. I CANNOT live with huge audible pops that seem to occur at predictable instances. DVDO should be able to at least notice this problem; once they do that, there should be a fix.

I am now also having this problem. I hooked up my VP30 for the first time yesterday and initially all was well. I am running an HD Tivo and Pio 59 avi both via HDMI only. My Xbox 360 is connected via component/optical. Audio worked for all inputs until I paused my DVD player for several hours. When I returned and put in a new disc all I heard was the constant static. My other 2 devices sound fine. I moved my 59 avi from HDMI 2 to HDMI 4 and all is fine. When I put it back on HDMI 2 the static is still present.

So in my situation it clearly is the VP30 and what appears to be a defective HDMI input. I plan to contact AVS/DVDO and obtain a replacement.

One other observation: when the audio works my Denon 3802 appropriately senses a digital signal per my viewing of the front panel. When the static is present no signal is detected.

SJHT

12-31-05, 12:03 PM

Gotta say, after reading through the majority of this thread, and researching the new VP30, it seems to me that HDMI is such a peculiar and annoying standard, that for now it is best left alone unless absolutely necessary. I was intending to buy the VP30 so I could connect a new Sat box the 942 via HDMI and a new Denon 3910 via HDMI. But, now after all of my reading, I will instead upgrade my HD to an HD+, input my 942 via the DVI input on the HD+ for HD material and component for SD. And, I will stick with my tried and true Panasonic RP91 SDI player. This will then continue to run via DVI onto my Mitsubishi PDP.

Just seems with all the HDMI issues along with audio issues, this is not necessarily the best time to upgrade. I always try and look at things with computers in mind. You always want to buy a motherboard/cpu combo at the beginning of its life cycle so you have the longest possible upgrade lifespan. The VP30 seems to be using older technology mixed with some new technology, put together and repackaged as an improved HD+. Using the computer model, this would not be the most advantageous time to replace my video processor. Far better to wait till the entire unit is new technology and has a long-life expectancy. Just my two cents...for what's it worth.

I think it also depends on what you are looking for in features. I don't believe the HD+ does the HD transcoding that the VP30 does. For my setup this is critical, as it allows me to switch my components (XBOX360, HD SAT, HD Cable, DVD, etc.) without switching my projector. My family members have already commented to me on how much easier it is. For example, if the HT is up and running and you want to play the 360, you just turn it on and the VP30 automatically transcodes & switches. Also, this allows me to set individual picture settings for each input regardless if they are analog or digital. Really slick. SJ

flyingvee

12-31-05, 12:35 PM

FWIW - MY audio problems are not locked to HDMI - only using one HDMI input, and am using coax digital on that source for audio. DVD player is the worst offender - that is comp vid, optical audio.

BG - I am a crt user, but SD improvement is far more than expected, given a decent sd signal to play with. I see little if any improvement of HD, but that could be because my pj will only nicely display 720p or 960p; had been displaying HD direct thru pj, but it is nice to have synch and picture control of HD now. DVD playback is darned nice (other than gross audio problems) - visually stunning, plan to view some SB dvds for New Years Eve - yup, getting old.

dlm10541

12-31-05, 01:32 PM

On my first unit I had audio problems from the beginning-partially corrected by changing the setup on the input device.

Interestingly my problems were on HDMI 1 & 2. When I switched the devices to 3 & 4 the audio started to stabilize. Over a 2 week period I gradually started to get longer and longer hours with no problems.

On the new unit I am getting no sound at all on HDMI 1 & 2 even after several hard reboots. While the digital inputs are fine I was hoping to clean up the spaghetti beneath my component shelf

HTSteve

12-31-05, 02:33 PM

Brigont,

I have no audio issues. I just received my unit yesterday, set it up last night and all appears well.

I have not had much time to play, but initial impressions are:

DVD - Old Samsung player with Component out. The improvement is significant. I have a 92" Firehawk with 7210. Previously, using the 7210 as the scaler, the picture appeared blurry (slightly out of focus), but now it is very sharp. This is making me reconsider upgrading my DVD player.

Cable - I have a SA8300HD box using Comcast. Right now, I do not see any improvement in these signals. I have not had time to play with the set up, but 1080i signals from the cable actually look worse than before. Again, I am sure it is in my cable box setup as I have not changed anything.

VCR - My kids still watch some video tapes, and I am very impressed here. True it is not as crisp as a DVD, but it is VERY watchable. The improvement is significant.

No audio problems at all. I am using one optical output to my AVR and switching all other inputs to that output - Cable, DVD and VCR (Analog).

I am using HDMI from my Cable box, but only for video

mskreis

12-31-05, 04:34 PM

I am now also having this problem. I hooked up my VP30 for the first time yesterday and initially all was well. I am running an HD Tivo and Pio 59 avi both via HDMI only. My Xbox 360 is connected via component/optical. Audio worked for all inputs until I paused my DVD player for several hours. When I returned and put in a new disc all I heard was the constant static. My other 2 devices sound fine. I moved my 59 avi from HDMI 2 to HDMI 4 and all is fine. When I put it back on HDMI 2 the static is still present.

So in my situation it clearly is the VP30 and what appears to be a defective HDMI input. I plan to contact AVS/DVDO and obtain a replacement.

One other observation: when the audio works my Denon 3802 appropriately senses a digital signal per my viewing of the front panel. When the static is present no signal is detected.

My audio problems have resolved - so far. Based on an earlier post I performed a hard reset and now all is working. Will see if/how long it lasts.

flint350

12-31-05, 05:58 PM

I have the same setup as yourself, and I thought that the way you described it meant that the VP does do the scaling. I have my 6412 set to output all the SD channels at 480i and the HD at 1080i. So I am assuming that the VP is the only box that is scaling/deinterlacing the SD channels.

I know that a couple of the broadcast HD channels use 720p, so they will be interlaced by the 6412 ( assuming of course that Comcast hasn't done something peculiar to them before transmitting) but everything else should by handled by the VP30 alone.

Is that right?

Well, I asked this same basic question in another thread and Josh of DVDO gave me this answer:

The optimal setup for your cable box would be to output all SD channels at 480i and HD channels at their boadcast resolution (720p or 1080i).

Currently your cable box is doing all of the processing that the VP30 should be doing. SD channels are being seinterlaced from 480i->480p and then scaled to 720p. HD 720p channels are being passed through as is and HD 1080i channels are being converted to 720p.

speters

12-31-05, 06:00 PM

Does anyone know if the fix for the 1080i problem has been posted yet on DVDO's site? I could not find any updates for the VP30.

doseofrealta

01-01-06, 12:51 AM

Don't forget that CES is this week so I wouldn't expect to hear from them (or any manufacturers) this week.

Gary Murrell

01-01-06, 01:12 AM

flintstone2513

01-01-06, 07:19 AM

Hi, Happy New year to everyone. just wondered if anyone here in the U.K is watching this thread, and has possibly ordered a VP30 or is interested in one as I am? I am suprised how busy this thread is. :cool:

Exile

01-01-06, 07:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile
I have the same setup as yourself, and I thought that the way you described it meant that the VP does do the scaling. I have my 6412 set to output all the SD channels at 480i and the HD at 1080i. So I am assuming that the VP is the only box that is scaling/deinterlacing the SD channels.

I know that a couple of the broadcast HD channels use 720p, so they will be interlaced by the 6412 ( assuming of course that Comcast hasn't done something peculiar to them before transmitting) but everything else should by handled by the VP30 alone.

Is that right?

Well, I asked this same basic question in another thread and Josh of DVDO gave me this answer:

Quote:
The optimal setup for your cable box would be to output all SD channels at 480i and HD channels at their boadcast resolution (720p or 1080i).

Currently your cable box is doing all of the processing that the VP30 should be doing. SD channels are being seinterlaced from 480i->480p and then scaled to 720p. HD 720p channels are being passed through as is and HD 1080i channels are being converted to 720p. :
Thanks, I thought that I had it right. It looks like the person that Josh was responding to, had all of their channels output at 720p.

HTSteve

01-01-06, 10:23 AM

Anyone experience this?

I currently have three audio inputs mapped to a single audio output going to my AVR.

I have the SA8300HD using coax, a DVD using coax and an analog VCR.

My issue is that the VP30 is not remembering which audio input is mapped to which video input.

I set up the video input and select the correct audio input from the menu for each item. Everything plays fine until I turn everything off for the night. The next day it remembered my STB input mapping but not my DVD. I had to go into the menu and re-assign in order for the audio to work.

Am I missing something when I am assigning inputs? THere is no "save" feature, so I assume once you assign it, the VP30 remembers what you assigned.

Any suggestions?

stevetoney

01-01-06, 04:20 PM

ALCON,

I've had my VP30 for a couple of weeks -- will get my RMA and send back my HD in the next week fpr the rebate credit..

I have not yet had the aduio problem mentioned by other - knock wood

I did have the IR weakness/directionality issue -- it was back enough that I bought a Hot Link Pro device @ 99$ -- problem solved - the remote works from nearly anywhere is the fairly large room --

now to my prime issue

I have an HTPC with ATI 9800PRO DVI going to the first HDMI port

my HD DirecTV STB going HDMI to the VP30 HDMI 2 port

a Panasonic S97 going to composite 2

a Panasonic HITB DVD goin to Composite 1 (this guy is mostly for sound) with it's optical in coming from the VP30's out

Switch between the four device on the VP30 works and sound and settings seem to follow each port in properly

Here's my issue

If I boot my HTPC -- I get a nice pretty 1280x720 picture out of the VP30 to my Panasonic 500 LCD projector

but when I switch device with the VP30 away from the HTPC to say DVD or STB the new source works fine, but switching back to HTPC give the blue screen of no signal from the HTPC - switching between all other sources works fine

any idea on what to do on the HTPC, VP30 to allow me to swithc away from the HTPC DVI

as a temp -- I ran a VGA cable from the second output of the vide card to the project and can switch to the VGA input on the project versus the DVI input and reboot to get DVI out back

I'm sure this is HTPC\VP30 DVI EDIID thing where the PC is stopping the video signal on the port -- any way to fix this

thanks
steve

flyingvee

01-01-06, 06:27 PM

HT Steve - I have 5 audio inputs mapped to 5 video inputs. VP30 remembers all. (so far) - just set up initially, then they are good from that point on. Couldn't even guess what to do.

Steve - I'm just using the rgbhv out from my htpc, so far it is finding it after leaving for other input. I don't have a dual head dvi out, so can't try what you're doing - sorry.

benthx

01-01-06, 07:20 PM

brigont

01-01-06, 08:23 PM

a Panasonic S97 going to composite 2

Steve - The S97 is an HDMI enabled upconverting player...

I too have the S97 and am curious why you have hooked it up via component instead of HDMI? The HDMI can be set up to push 480I or P.

I have a V30 in route and have been planning my settings/ hookup strategy

Thanks in advance for your attention and reply.

Brian

Gshepherdogs

01-01-06, 09:36 PM

Hello Memebers

I havent had any experience with the DVDO products yet. I was looking at the vp30 and all these issues are making me rethink if it is really worth the hassel. I would have thought that before any complex product like this is release. That perhaps ten of these units are tested in the real work by selected uses like us to report these issues and subsequently corrected before product being released.
??? :confused:

Living outside of the USA it makes things even harder as the backup and support/knowledge is not as great. That is why the forum in a valuable asset! :)

Ben

I was part of the extensive beta testing on the HD, and I can tell ya, they do alot of refining in the beta process. However, as with any new piece of the home theater puzzle, you can not predict everything. There are so many variables and as you know, no two systems are the same. I did not work on this beta test, but these issues are not unlike many that popped up during the initial release of the HD. DVDO is a great company, and they will work out the issues, just give them some time. They have some of the best engineers and CS around.

I believe a good deal of the problems that exist are more an issue with the incredibly quirky HDMI protocols put in place to protect Hollywood's precious Digital Rights. If only they would lighten up a bit we could all get along so much better.

Garman

01-01-06, 09:36 PM

Gshepherdogs

01-01-06, 09:38 PM

How does this unit look with a Sony HS51 Front projector? They raved on how great the HD+ unit looked using this combo, just curious. It seems like this could be a rebagged HD+ unit, with HDMI switching etc..

Also where is a good place to buy these units at a decent price? Thanks.....

1. This is a new unit, if you read through the specs, many things have been improved over the HD+
2. Buy from an authorized dealer, the prices are all consistent, but you are guaranteed customer support. Believe me, you do not want to buy from an unauthorized dealer and not have access to CS.

jschefdog

01-01-06, 10:08 PM

I wonder if my JVC 5u D-VHS deck passes Dolby/DTS thru the HDMI output ??
Mine does. I just got a Yamaha receiver with HDMI inputs. When I connect my JVC HM-DH5U via HDMI the Yamaha detects 5.1 DD or DTS over the HDMI inputs.

jschefdog

01-01-06, 10:24 PM

How does this unit look with a Sony HS51 Front projector? They raved on how great the HD+ unit looked using this combo, just curious.
I just got a VP30 and am testing it out with a HS51. The problem is that I can't get 1x1 pixel mapping over HDMI to the HS51. This is a known issue with the HS51, it scales and overscans 720P to the HDMI input (unless you have an early unit which crops 720P). I haven't had much time to work with it to see if there is some magic setting which will make it work, but there has been much discussion of this topic in the Official HS51 thread and it seems unlikely it will work. This may negate any potential picture quality advantages the VP30 would provide using HDMI. There have been indications that the new HS51a/60 will do 1x1 pixel mapping over HDMI. See the threads in the <$3500 PJ forum for more details.

I can get 1x1 pixel mapping over RGBVH to Input A, but because of HDCP I can't send 480i HDMI from my Sony DVD player to RGBVH out of the VP30. The only way I have found to get 1x1 pixel mapping is 480i Component from the DVD player to the VP30, then RGBVH to the HS51. But that sort of defeats the "all digital path" advantage of the VP30 over earlier models. I still have 3 weeks to try it out, but may return it for these reasons. I may upgrade to the HS51a once there have been some reviews and try it again at that time.

Garman

01-01-06, 10:43 PM

stevetoney

01-01-06, 10:50 PM

two reason:

first the HDMI and HDCP thing do not play well with my Panasonic Projector L500 -- So I get protection errors -- stupid concept - screws up many for legitmate displays

second, I had my main room TV professionally claibrated -- we did lots of testing of the output of the S97 and the OPPO upscaling DVD players -- in both cases the hdmi output of the players introduced visible noise on the calibration patterns -- the S07 was worse than the OPPO. Both were clean on component output

I left the OPPO on the big Sony TV - RP LCD 60 HD as it was slightly nice picture on the Sony - it is feeding the sony with component as well

I have the projector in the bedroom with the vp30 and s97 and HTPC etc.

the visible noise on the patterns was surprizing -- I need to get a denon 3910 and try it ..

Steve - The S97 is an HDMI enabled upconverting player...

I too have the S97 and am curious why you have hooked it up via component instead of HDMI? The HDMI can be set up to push 480I or P.

I have a V30 in route and have been planning my settings/ hookup strategy

Thanks in advance for your attention and reply.

Brian

c722

01-01-06, 10:52 PM

HS51a is not 1080p, just using a newer version of LCD panels, improving contrast.

btw no offense, isn't it a well known "feature" for the HS51 that it cannot take 1:1 720p via HDMI? I mean we can't really blame the VP30 for this... At least the dvdo units give u an option to adjust output resolution (so u can try cropping a few pixels to get 1:1), some others dun even have this option.

westa6969

01-01-06, 11:15 PM

Gary Murrell

01-02-06, 12:51 AM

Mine does. I just got a Yamaha receiver with HDMI inputs. When I connect my JVC HM-DH5U via HDMI the Yamaha detects 5.1 DD or DTS over the HDMI inputs.

sweet :) , Thanks

-Gary

collinp

01-02-06, 01:32 AM

I don't get it - been following this VP30 all of last month and feedback is pretty troublesome unless you like being a BETA Tester and pay for the privelege.

Pops, clicks, 2 channel audio or no audio or it doesn't improve one's Cable Box display but my outdated VCR and DVD? Who in the world would spend $2K to improve a $49 VCR or DVD Player when Blu-Ray is around the corner.

This is insane. Sorry folks but 57 pages of problems are what I see and then I repeatedly see new members ask for PQ reviews/ratings of the VP and you folks ignore it and just continue to discuss Problems, page after page . . .

How does one spend $2K to improve a crappy old VCR/DVD Player? Please improve what's coming through my HD STB I can get and own two quality DVD Upconverters for DVD for under $250 and Blu-Ray will take it to the next level so what is this thing going to do for our Cable STB's? Is there any measurable benchmarks here for $2K? :D

Well it's actually about 50 pages of anticipatory chatter followed by 7 pages of issues, some of which are simply configuration questions. It's a common AVS phemonemon that a product can appear very buggy because the people with problems tend to be most vocal. The happy people are sitting at home enjoying their product and not posting. The bottom line is that DVDOs products are high quality and actually less buggy than a great many CE products on the market. The only problem I have encountered is a known bug in the HD Tivo when sending Dolby Digital. The HD Tivo has 5.1 incompatibility problems with a wide range of receivers as well as DVDO products.

How does one justify this device? Well the prime reason for me is to squeeze every last bit of quality out of "a crappy old DVD player". A good SDI modded DVD player scaled through an iScan and viewed on a well calibrated display is really something remarkable to behold. A $250 upconverter player just cannot compete. My DVD PQ consistently approaches and in someways exceeds broadcast HD. While over the air HD has a clear resolution advantage many of the feeds suffer from poor quality control. Compression artifacting, white level clipping, inconsistent black levels, audio sync, etc make HD an extremely hit or miss proposistion. For instance I have done A/B comparissons of the HD broadcast of Lost and the DVD edition on my system. The DVD version consistently looks better to me. Yeah, HD DVDs are on the horizon, but it will be sometime before the first gen bugs and limitations are worked out and studios start releasing the movies people actually care about on HD DVD. Not to mention the looming format war which will slow down progress.

As others have posted this device does a whole lot more than improve picture quality. A lot of the draw is the ability to tune picture settings on an input by input basis. you can calibrate your set once to match DVDOs very accurate test patterns and then tune each input to match the built in test patterns. You can compensate for overscan. You can compensate for video lag. You can select all sorts of aspect ratios. Try to frame the 1.66 aspect Kubrick DVDs properly with just the 16:9, 4:3, & LBX controls on most displays, it's not possible. Don't forget it's also an HDMI switcher and most people don't have enough HDMI inputs.

Will a device like this improve the picture quality of your cable box? A little bit. Accurately tuning picture settings for the Tivo and proper geometry settings makes a difference. Also, the deinterlacing in my HD Tivo is absolutely awful. The iScan is a big improvement. There is more room however for improvement in 1080i deinterlacing. Motion adaptive or edge adaptive 1080i deinterlacing is not widely available yet. The Silicon Optix chipset is the only one that can do it yet and its still pretty new. Overall the HD improvement is tangible, but not jaw dropping like the improvement in DVD performance.

- Collin

Lars158

01-02-06, 07:35 AM

Here are two snapshots to illustrate what I see on component in with 480i vs 480p : http://www.pbase.com/lars158/vp30

I will give it a try using s-video tomorrow to see if this is a particular problem only on the component inputs... but if was really a problem with the component inputs I would expect the same noise on the 480p over component, so to me it seems to be related to the deinterlacing.

I agree that the Iscan HD+ have wonderful deinterlacing. My iScan HD+ configuration was 480i/576i component input from DVD with 720p DVI output and the result was really great! (I was hoping for the same excellent results with the VP30). I am sure this is some kind of defect (be it sw or hw) as the noise is definitely not on an acceptable level... :(

After talking with technical support it was decided that I most likely had a defective unit (probably the chip handling the deinterlacing on the component input). I sent in the VP30 for a replacement.

I am happy to say that the new VP30 is performing perfectly and the PQ and control is overall a step up from the HD+. It's a great unit!! :D

Main reasons I purshased the VP 30 (on top of PQ improvements) are:
- analog audio input -> digital out
- HDMI switching
- processing of analog component HD feeds -> HDMI out

For me the $700 dollar upgrade fee going from HD+ to VP30 was well worth it!

Exile

01-02-06, 09:35 AM

I don't get it - been following this VP30 all of last month and feedback is pretty troublesome unless you like being a BETA Tester and pay for the privelege.

Pops, clicks, 2 channel audio or no audio or it doesn't improve one's Cable Box display but my outdated VCR and DVD? Who in the world would spend $2K to improve a $49 VCR or DVD Player when Blu-Ray is around the corner.

This is insane. Sorry folks but 57 pages of problems are what I see and then I repeatedly see new members ask for PQ reviews/ratings of the VP and you folks ignore it and just continue to discuss Problems, page after page . . .

How does one spend $2K to improve a crappy old VCR/DVD Player? Please improve what's coming through my HD STB I can get and own two quality DVD Upconverters for DVD for under $250 and Blu-Ray will take it to the next level so what is this thing going to do for our Cable STB's? Is there any measurable benchmarks here for $2K? :D

I can understand your frustration however, as colinp replied, wh we are probably hearing from are the few vocal enthusiasts who have experienced early problems in setting up. That is not surprising because the unit has only been shipping for a few weeks, so the problem posts that we have seen are from a large initial shipment with people rushing to get their unit set up, and looking for advice.
The DVDO site reports that the VP30 is now on back order, and there have only been 12-15 people reporting problems here.
Those of us who had no problems ( I installed mine in 40 minutes and have had no issues at all so far) will probably wait for a few weeks of in depth usage before posting our impressions.

That said, and for what it's worth, here are my thoughts:
Setup:
Plasma Pan TH-65THD7UY DVI input ISF calibrated
DVD Pan RP91 SDI output
STSTAB Comcast/Motorola DCTDICT2 DVI out
VP DVDO VP30 (replacing HD+)

I am not an engineer, or in any way professionally qualified in AV, all of my evaluations are based entirely on what it looks like. Also, I am very fortunate in being able to afford this stuff so my threshold for what is 'worth' paying for, will be different for many other people.

I will limit my comments to STB performance as you asked, although I totally agree with the comments about superb DVD playback and the other audio and switching features. The HD+ made a noticeable difference to the HD channels, the picture was smoother, more flowing and 'film like'. Was it 5% or 50% better? I couldn't say. It was noticeable and I preferred it, which is what mattered to me. The SD channels were better but still really bad on such a large screen. As has been said so often here, the source quality varies so much that it was pretty much a gamble every time you changed channels.

The VP30 made no detectable difference to the HD channels but a significant improvement to the SD quality. Unprompted my wife commented how much better it was, so much so that that they are quite watchable now.

I don't have any benchmarks or other quantitative information. It looked better, I liked it and could afford it so I bought it.

I know that this is not what you were looking for but, given DVDO's 30 day return policy, can you not try it for yourself with your specific set up in your own environment?

Best of luck.

brigont

01-02-06, 10:40 AM

Steve,

What version of the firmware are you running on the S97?

BG

two reason:

first the HDMI and HDCP thing do not play well with my Panasonic Projector L500 -- So I get protection errors -- stupid concept - screws up many for legitmate displays

second, I had my main room TV professionally claibrated -- we did lots of testing of the output of the S97 and the OPPO upscaling DVD players -- in both cases the hdmi output of the players introduced visible noise on the calibration patterns -- the S07 was worse than the OPPO. Both were clean on component output

I left the OPPO on the big Sony TV - RP LCD 60 HD as it was slightly nice picture on the Sony - it is feeding the sony with component as well

I have the projector in the bedroom with the vp30 and s97 and HTPC etc.

the visible noise on the patterns was surprizing -- I need to get a denon 3910 and try it ..

mlouie

01-02-06, 10:47 AM

SJHT

01-02-06, 11:24 AM

aaronwt

01-02-06, 11:40 AM

Robo, just so you know(it spoiled my plans also) the Dish 942 does NOT pass Dolby 5.1 thru the HDMI port, only 2 Ch. PCM, what a pain in the ass :mad:

I wonder if my JVC 5u D-VHS deck passes Dolby/DTS thru the HDMI output ??

HDMI is a joke :(

-Gary
Why is HDMI a joke? 5.1 over HDMI works fine on my DirecTv HD-TiVos and on my Sony 975 DVD player.
It sounds like the Dish 942 is the problem.

jschefdog

01-02-06, 11:57 AM

Jschefdog: Well if that is the case I will wait for Sonys new FP Micro-Displays to comeout, and by then hopefully we will have a new HD-DVD format and more material in 1080p. Usually I upgrade my FP every 3 years or so, do you have a direct like to that thread? Just curious if I have one of the older units. Is the HS51a a true 1080p FP?
Here are links for the Sony HS-60 Details (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=577504) thread and the Official Sony HS51 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=444560), but the HS51 thread is 5000 posts and growing so you will need to use search to find relevant information.

keenan

01-02-06, 11:57 AM

How does one justify this device? Well the prime reason for me is to squeeze every last bit of quality out of "a crappy old DVD player". A good SDI modded DVD player scaled through an iScan and viewed on a well calibrated display is really something remarkable to behold. A $250 upconverter player just cannot compete. My DVD PQ consistently approaches and in someways exceeds broadcast HD.

- Collin
I agree, in fact the VP30 seems to do an even better job with DVD material than the HD+ did. I have a Region 2 PAL release of Wim Wender's "Until The End Of The World" and in a few scenes there was a definite shimmering and interlace artifacting with the HD+, with the VP30 the scenes are smooth as silk, in fact the whole movie has more detail and less noise, some of it approaching HD quality. I had not expected this but was very happy to see the result.

danielo

01-02-06, 11:59 AM

Why is HDMI a joke? 5.1 over HDMI works fine on my DirecTv HD-TiVos and on my Sony 975 DVD player.
It sounds like the Dish 942 is the problem.

I guess because its a hit/run sofar, both product people and us poor users are not sure if and how a connection will work alot is unclear today and even more in the future. This is not good for any standard esp. one that in the future will be enforced by drm and backed by legal forces who clearly don't have a easy and flawless operation as their first demand.

It must be very tough for product developers at dvdo and other companies to read forums and seeing all these problems knowing there is only so much they can do.

Daniel.

Exile

01-02-06, 12:07 PM

Hi Exile,

Do you have 1:1 mapping over the DVI blade? If so, are your timing settings different from those posted in the native rate thread, and if so can you post them?

Although I have the 8th generation panasonic plasma, I haven't been able to get any signal when I change the format to 1366x768 using the timings listed in the native rate thread.

Thanks!

I used the same setting as I had with the HD+:

H-Shift 282
H-Size 1366
H-Front 34
H-Sync 112
H-Back 282
V-Shift 31
V-Size 768
V-Frot 3
V-Sync 4
V-Back 31

Framerate Unlocked 60

Good luck.

jschefdog

01-02-06, 12:09 PM

Anyone experience this?

I currently have three audio inputs mapped to a single audio output going to my AVR.

I have the SA8300HD using coax, a DVD using coax and an analog VCR.

My issue is that the VP30 is not remembering which audio input is mapped to which video input.
I found something similar with the Input Picture Controls. I tweaked the Brightness and Contrast using Avia to HDMI 1. We lost power due to a storm. After the power came back these settings had returned to the default of zero. Maybe there are some issues with input settings being saved when power is disconnected.

jschefdog

01-02-06, 12:15 PM

Why is HDMI a joke? 5.1 over HDMI works fine on my DirecTv HD-TiVos and on my Sony 975 DVD player.
It sounds like the Dish 942 is the problem.
I think HDMI is a good concept (digital video and sound over a single cable), but the connector is certainly a joke. I have a few HDMI devices now and on some of them the connection is not tight and I have to pull the cable to one side or the other to get a connection. Otherwise I get no picture or sound. They should have designed it with a positive locking mechanism. I wonder how many problem calls the manufacturers get from people who plug in HDMI for the first time and think the device is broken when it is just a bad connection.

keenan

01-02-06, 12:22 PM

The HDMI connection itself is a joke, there is supposedly a locking type HDMI connection available but I have not seen it on any equipment yet. I also have had the "wiggle to make contact" situation with some HDMI equipment and to me that is just unacceptable, not to mention, if you are going to use a cable with any sort of weight to it, you better support it externally or it will hog out the jack from pulling on it. None of these problems are present with DVI. DVI is a far more robust connection.

markrubin

01-02-06, 12:23 PM

I think HDMI is a good concept (digital video and sound over a single cable), but the connector is certainly a joke. I have a few HDMI devices now and on some of them the connection is not tight and I have to pull the cable to one side or the other to get a connection. Otherwise I get no picture or sound. They should have designed it with a positive locking mechanism. I wonder how many problem calls the manufacturers get from people who plug in HDMI for the first time and think the device is broken when it is just a bad connection.

I started a thread about this Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6794772&&#post6794772)

this is making a lot of trouble for designers and manufacturers of new gear and it is not their fault that the HDMI interface does not work properly

Exile

01-02-06, 12:40 PM

Although they are not yet on the DVDO web site, they have been posted on Remotecentral:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-prontong/thread.cgi?keywords=6414&highlight=vp30

stevetoney

01-02-06, 02:26 PM

I can't remember the number -- I downloaded a firmware upgrade from the the paansonic site in last july and updated the the player to what was supposed to be the lastest

I have not looked for one since

--

too my original prime question

anyone know how to ensure the HTPC connection doesn't shut itself off when move around the VP30 inputs -- something to tweak on the HTPC??

Steve,

What version of the firmware are you running on the S97?

BG

brigont

01-02-06, 02:49 PM

Exile?

Which panny do you have? I am running the 50phd7uy with the HDMI blade.

I used the same setting as I had with the HD+:

H-Shift 282
H-Size 1366
H-Front 34
H-Sync 112
H-Back 282
V-Shift 31
V-Size 768
V-Frot 3
V-Sync 4
V-Back 31

Framerate Unlocked 60

Good luck.

Exile

01-02-06, 03:07 PM

Exile?

Which panny do you have? I am running the 50phd7uy with the HDMI blade.

TH-65PHD7UY with the DVI blade.

Gshepherdogs

01-02-06, 04:33 PM

I know this is OT somewhat, but I think this is the best place to get an answer. I borrowed a Sony HDMI DVD player from my dealer. I hooked it up both directly to my display and through the Iscan HD I have using an HDMI/DVI cable. Either way all I got were horizontal scan lines. The image was present, but completely out of sync. It did not matter whether I used an original DVD or non-copyrighted disc.

My display is a Mitsubishi PD5010 with DVI input which I know is HDCP compliant. So, is the issue with the display being unable to read the HDMI/DVI signal? Will upgrading to an HD+ which can scale the DVI input make any difference? Or, will upgrading to a VP30 make a difference? Or, am I screwed?

Problem solved, it was the Sony NS3100ES player that was to blame. I bought a cheapo Toshiba player and it worked fine.

jschefdog

01-02-06, 06:54 PM

btw no offense, isn't it a well known "feature" for the HS51 that it cannot take 1:1 720p via HDMI? I mean we can't really blame the VP30 for this... At least the dvdo units give u an option to adjust output resolution (so u can try cropping a few pixels to get 1:1), some others dun even have this option.
I didn't mean to imply that DVDO or the VP30 is to blame for this situation. Clearly the blame is on Sony. First they messed up with the weird black border issue for all 720P input. Then, even though they had feedback that people wanted a pass thru for 1x1 mapping, their eventual fix was to overscan 720P by 2-3% with no adjustment to change it. At least it seems they finally listened and fixed this issue in the HS51a/60 update. I just wanted to let Garman know what to expect if he got a VP30 to use with an HS51.

I had hoped with all the adjustments available on the VP30 that maybe it would be possible to get perfect pixel mapping, but so far I haven't had any luck. If I go outside of 712-728 V size on the VP30, the HS51 displays a "Frequency Out of Range" message and goes black. With the H Size setting there doesn't seem to be a limit, but I went all the way from 1240 to 1366 and still see interference patterns in the 1 pixel vertical lines. So unless anyone has suggestions I don't think it is possible to get perfect pixel mapping through HDMI to the HS51.

I had also hoped that my Sony DVP-NS975V would not turn on the HDCP flag for 480i output over HDMI, but it seems that it does. I thought only upscaled output would turn on the flag. This eliminates the possibility of using the HDMI connection from DVD to VP30 in combination with the RGBHV output of the VP30. Again, not DVDO's fault, they are just following the copy protection rules imposed on them.

Overall I like the VP30. It offers lots of good features and adjustments and seems well made. I'm just not sure I will see a significant improvement in image quality since the HS51 is rescaling whatever the VP30 sends to it. Need to do more testing.

aaronwt

01-02-06, 11:32 PM

And here is a shot of the same 720p DLP using 1:1 pixel mapping to display the 1x1 checkerboard properly. It's not an extreme close up so you won't actually be able to see the pixel structure.

- Collin
On my 1080P Samsung I get this when I input 720P from the VP30. When I input 1080i I get the checkerboard pattern that indicates it's not 1:1 pixel mapping. Is there any way to have the 1080i output look like the 720P output? A pattern that will indicate 1:1 pixel mapping, or is that impossible becasue it is interlaced?

IMG_0951 is what the pattern looks like when I input the test pattern at 1080i.
IMG_0957 is what the pattern looks like when I input 720P
The images are from the post from collinp

collinp

01-02-06, 11:50 PM

On my 1080P Samsung I get this when I input 720P from the VP30. When I input 1080i I get the checkerboard pattern that indicates it's not 1:1 pixel mapping. Is there any way to have the 1080i output look like the 720P output? A pattern that will indicate 1:1 pixel mapping, or is that impossible becasue it is interlaced?

IMG_0951 is what the pattern looks like when I input the test pattern at 1080i.
IMG_0957 is what the pattern looks like when I input 720P
The images are from the post from collinp

I haven't played around with a 1080p set very extensively yet, but I have had experience with several 720p Samsungs. On some of the 720p models they defaulted the native input to an aspect ratio they called "Wide" which resulted in the IMG_0951 image. To get 1:1 pixel mapping you needed to select the cryptically named "Expand" aspect ratio. Perhaps there are some aspect ratio choices on your set you can play with?

- Collin

aaronwt

01-03-06, 01:03 AM

I'll check it out tonight if I remember.

brigont

01-03-06, 02:00 AM

Has anyone experienced a noticible difference between the HDMI and BNC Analog outputs on the V30.

Aspect on my panny is locked to the source on HDMI, while the Analog input allows for different presentation options.

Just curious.

BG

mlouie

01-03-06, 03:00 AM

I used the same setting as I had with the HD+:

H-Shift 282
H-Size 1366
H-Front 34
H-Sync 112
H-Back 282
V-Shift 31
V-Size 768
V-Frot 3
V-Sync 4
V-Back 31

Framerate Unlocked 60

Good luck.

Thanks Exile,

Using essentially the same timings, I did get 1:1 mapping, I believe, using the DVI blade. Still unsuccessful with the HDMI blade, however. As for the vertical, however, it appears to be 1/2 a pixel column off if that is possible, when viewing the vertical test pattern. I see the black and white columns of pixels, but it appears off 1/2 pixel which results in magenta color columns 1/2 pixel in width.

Is this normal, and if not, how do I adjust this. I didn't have any success playing with the timings;

Thanks.

oferlaor

01-03-06, 03:17 AM

About the problems, I do believe these are isolated issues. I have a VP30 and it works very very well, I did not do all the tests I wanted to as yet (I still have audio to test), but as I wrote before, the unit is a definite step up from ISCAN HD.

About 2:2, I'm not sure I see a dramatic improvement. I did catch a few scenes with overly enthusiastic video mode tendencies (although film bias fixed them right up).

aaronwt,

I'm not quite sure I understand... If you have a fixed pixel design - you should use a constant output resolution. The fact that you're getting interference patterns (banding) on your checkboard means the display's scaler is active. You need to use 1080P or its equivalent. You need to make sure you see each distinct pixel on the checkerbox without bands.

datatwo

01-03-06, 03:34 AM

I haven't played around with a 1080p set very extensively yet, but I have had experience with several 720p Samsungs. On some of the 720p models they defaulted the native input to an aspect ratio they called "Wide" which resulted in the IMG_0951 image. To get 1:1 pixel mapping you needed to select the cryptically named "Expand" aspect ratio. Perhaps there are some aspect ratio choices on your set you can play with?

- Collin

I get the same exagerated IMG_0951 pattern when the VP30 sends a 1080i image to the Samsung 1080p HL-R6178W. I haven't tried inputting 720p. I don't understand why the 720p input appears correct. I assume that the TV is converting both inputs to '1080p'. Does this mean that the 720p input results in a 'native' image after it's converted to 1080p?

There are only two aspect modes available in the TV when you send 720p or 1080i : 16:9 or 4:3.

I'm looking forward to the results of arronwt's research.

collinp

01-03-06, 04:15 AM

I get the same exagerated IMG_0951 pattern when the VP30 sends a 1080i image to the Samsung 1080p HL-R6178W. I haven't tried inputting 720p. I don't understand why the 720p input appears correct. I assume that the TV is converting both inputs to '1080p'. Does this mean that the 720p input results in a 'native' image after it's converted to 1080p?

There are only two aspect modes available in the TV when you send 720p or 1080i : 16:9 or 4:3.

I'm looking forward to the results of arronwt's research.

I would imagine the 720p image looks okay because the native 1080p of the set is a significantly higher resolution the input resolution. More pixels means a less evident banding pattern. Similarly a 480p checkerboard looks pretty good on my 720p set.

It should be theoretically possible to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on a wobulated set. The black pixels will be difficult to discern and the field will look a bit like a gray field, but you won't have any banding. It is possible to do this on the 720p Samsungs and the results with the iScan are quite nice.

Who knows if it's possible with the 1080p sets. A quick perusal of the manual seems to indicate 16:9 is the only relevant option. It looks like the VGA input has a more sophisticated size control however plus the VGA input seems to be the only way to get 1080p into the set.

- Collin

Exile

01-03-06, 07:14 AM

Thanks Exile,

Using essentially the same timings, I did get 1:1 mapping, I believe, using the DVI blade. Still unsuccessful with the HDMI blade, however. As for the vertical, however, it appears to be 1/2 a pixel column off if that is possible, when viewing the vertical test pattern. I see the black and white columns of pixels, but it appears off 1/2 pixel which results in magenta color columns 1/2 pixel in width.

Is this normal, and if not, how do I adjust this. I didn't have any success playing with the timings;

Thanks.
Sorry I can't help with that. I am not an expert in these matters, I have just been following the advice in these forums. There was a question raised about the HDMI spec only accepting "standard" resolution, not custom ones like 1366 x 768. I don't remember seeing an answer; you could try searching the forums and check any documentation that came with your HDMI blade.

c722

01-03-06, 10:18 AM

I'm not quite sure I understand... If you have a fixed pixel design - you should use a constant output resolution. The fact that you're getting interference patterns (banding) on your checkboard means the display's scaler is active. You need to use 1080P or its equivalent.

correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's because his samsung 1080p is special: it's a wobulated 1080 panel.

Tom in OH

01-03-06, 10:55 AM

Does anyone know if the fix for the 1080i problem has been posted yet on DVDO's site? I could not find any updates for the VP30.

I haven't heard any more about this either? Version 1.0 shows on the info page.

Did u find the update?

Gshepherdogs

01-03-06, 11:00 AM

Does anyone know if there is a timeframe/cutoff for the upgrade program?

mlouie

01-03-06, 01:03 PM

Sorry I can't help with that. I am not an expert in these matters, I have just been following the advice in these forums. There was a question raised about the HDMI spec only accepting "standard" resolution, not custom ones like 1366 x 768. I don't remember seeing an answer; you could try searching the forums and check any documentation that came with your HDMI blade.

Thanks again for the quick response. My question wasn't very clear as I now read back. Anyway, I was actually referring to the 1/2 pixel off-set in the vertical being with the DVI blade. I have been messing with the V-sync and some of the other timings, but they don't seem to alter it. That's why I wonder if this is just normal?

Thanks again

Sparky66

01-03-06, 02:05 PM

correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's because his samsung 1080p is special: it's a wobulated 1080 panel.

I read recently in "The Perfect Vision" December 2005 edition that all Samsung DLP RPTV displays failed in all tests to properly deinterlace 1080i images prior to scaling and instead "Bob" them at 1920 x 540 fields. From what they state and I gather, alot of so called HDTV's opt to display only half of the 1080 lines - that is, the two 540 lines broadcast half resolution fields sequentially and multiply them ( odd and even seperately or known as "bobbing") and upconvert each to the display's native resolution.
What all this means is, if your display can't weave the broadcasts' signals 2 x 540 line fields into a single full resolution 1080 line frame for processing and only processes single half resolution images (BOB) , you will never be truly mapping 1:1 natively at 1080i to your screen. In this case it will always upconvert rather than pass it thru !!
Just so you're aware, many displays are in the same boat - they claim that they have the capability of displaying 1920 x 1080p resolution when in fact all they are delivering is 1920 x 540 :confused: :(

Just a thought for all people trying to pass thru a 1080i signal and deinterlace it to 1080p. I might also reiterate that this problem affects many different brand of displays , not just Samsungs DLP Rptv's.

tonydeluce

01-03-06, 02:22 PM

I read recently in "The Perfect Vision" December 2005 edition that all Samsung DLP RPTV displays failed in all tests to properly deinterlace 1080i images prior to scaling and instead "Bob" them at 1920 x 540 fields. From what they state and I gather, alot of so called HDTV's opt to display only half of the 1080 lines - that is, the two 540 lines broadcast half resolution fields sequentially and multiply them ( odd and even seperately or known as "bobbing") and upconvert each to the display's native resolution.
What all this means is, if your display can't weave the broadcasts' signals 2 x 540 line fields into a single full resolution 1080 line frame for processing and only processes single half resolution images (BOB) , you will never be truly mapping 1:1 natively at 1080i to your screen. In this case it will always upconvert rather than pass it thru !!
Just so you're aware, many displays are in the same boat - they claim that they have the capability of displaying 1920 x 1080p resolution when in fact all they are delivering is 1920 x 540 :confused: :(

Just a thought for all people trying to pass thru a 1080i signal and deinterlace it to 1080p. I might also reiterate that this problem affects many different brand of displays , not just Samsungs DLP Rptv's.

January 2006 'Perfect Vision" states that the Samsung 1080p 6168 deinterlaces
1080i to 1080p "correctly". Apparently, the December 2005 issue referred
to the 720p sets...

Exile

01-03-06, 02:28 PM

Thanks again for the quick response. My question wasn't very clear as I now read back. Anyway, I was actually referring to the 1/2 pixel off-set in the vertical being with the DVI blade. I have been messing with the V-sync and some of the other timings, but they don't seem to alter it. That's why I wonder if this is just normal?

Thanks again

OK, I thought you were asking about the HDMI blade.

I have not had the same problem as you with DVI. As soon as I input the 'correct' timings it snapped right into place. The only thing that I can think of is that in the Panasonic setup menu, in the Screensaver section, there is a setting to turn 'wobbling' on or off. This needed to be set to off; or at least it did in my 7UY

Robert D

01-03-06, 02:48 PM

Can someone explain what exactly the SDI card does? Is this option worth the extra money?

collinp

01-03-06, 05:04 PM

correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's because his samsung 1080p is special: it's a wobulated 1080 panel.

Nope wobuation shouldn't have anything to do with it. The wobulated 720p sets can do 1:1 pixel mapping of a 720p signal just fine. The 1080p set should theoretically be able to do the same with a 1080p signal.

- Collin

collinp

01-03-06, 05:11 PM

Can someone explain what exactly the SDI card does? Is this option worth the extra money?

It gives you an SDI input to connect SDI devices. SDI is a pro-grade 480i digital interconnect. Many people have had their DVD players modified to add an SDI output. With a high quality player the resulting picture quality is phenomenal. Within the past year or so newer players have come available with the ability to send 480i over HDMI. Coupled with an IScan this can offer similar performance to an SDI modded player without the need for an SDI card. There are however only a handful of HDMI 480i players available at this point.

- Collin

Robert D

01-03-06, 05:22 PM

It gives you an SDI input to connect SDI devices. SDI is a pro-grade 480i digital interconnect. Many people have had their DVD players modified to add an SDI output. With a high quality player the resulting picture quality is phenomenal. Within the past year or so newer players have come available with the ability to send 480i over HDMI. Coupled with an IScan this can offer similar performance to an SDI modded player without the need for an SDI card. There are however only a handful of HDMI 480i players available at this point.

- Collin

Thanks. :) So to take advantage of this option you need to mod a dvd player? If one had a player that allowed 480i from the HDMI output how do you go from HDMI out to the input of the SDI card (looks like a single BNC connector to me)?