The Input Aspect Ratio information is not determined by what format the content you are watching is, it determined by the settings the user has selected. These selections can be changed in the Input Aspect Ratio menu under both 'Frame AR' or 'Active AR'. Also if you push the 4:3 or 16:9 buttons on the remote you will see these change.

OK - thanks for the reply. Wouldn't 1.78:1 always be the correct choice for a 16:9 plasma TV with 852x480 resolution though?

I'll have another look through the choices. I did read the manual, but it was all a little over my head at the time.

But 1.78:1 would be the correct choice for me, right?

Thanks for your reply SJ, connecting the said sources to my display show identical results to the internal test patterns on the VP30, everything is perfect and matches 100%(all test patterns from all sources), as soon as I start inputting sources into the VP30 things get nasty :(

can separate Hue/Sat for each color be added to the VP30??, is this possible ??
plenty other scalers offer this capability

-Gary

vigile,

Have you tried 1080i out of the VP30 into your Samsung TV. I ask, because perhaps is you input 720p, then the TV might de-interlace and then upconvert and scale to 1080p. So if you input 1080i, then the TV upconverts to 1080p from 720p, this could give you 1:1 pixel mapping. I do NOT have this TV so I am just guessing.

The test patterns are used to help set up your iScan VP30. Have you evaluated your setup with and without the iScan VP30 with content that you are familar with? I have seen some displays that will not allow you to bypass the internal processing but when I displayed actual content the improvement was obvious.

I haven't done any direct comparisons yet because disconnecting the VP30 now is going to be a pain.

Is there a "pass through" setting on the VP30 that does not do any processing but just passes through the content from the DVD/DVR box?

vigile,

Have you tried 1080i out of the VP30 into your Samsung TV. I ask, because perhaps is you input 720p, then the TV might de-interlace and then upconvert and scale to 1080p. So if you input 1080i, then the TV upconverts to 1080p from 720p, this could give you 1:1 pixel mapping. I do NOT have this TV so I am just guessing.

I did try 1080i and the same issue is seen. The only res that actually shows what I *THINK* its supposed to look like is 480p.

Speaking of, does anyoen have images of what the calibration images are supposed to look like?

Has anyone else tried using the VP30 with a new Samsung 1080p TV? I have the 5668 model and think I might have a big problem.

At the back of the manual there is a config/calibration guide that I tried to follow. On the second test pattern in the guide (checkerboard) it says if you don't see a checkerboard correctly, that you may not be able to bypass the video processing of the TV.

I am outputting 720p as the TV won't accept a 1080p signal from the VP30. So the TV has to scale to 1080p itself and I am getting incorrect test patterns -- won't this affect my video quality pretty severly?

In earlier posts (page 60 or so) there were posts from a few, including myself, that discussed the performance of the VP30 with a 1080P Sammy. I have the HLR-6768 1080P and was hoping to use the vga input to run 1080p and bypass the Sammy's internal processing. It doesn't work. Others confirmed this as well. Using it in conjunction with the Sammy's internal processor makes the picture quality worse (especially in SD). I returned mine.

In earlier posts (page 60 or so) there were posts from a few, including myself, that discussed the performance of the VP30 with a 1080P Sammy. I have the HLR-6768 1080P and was hoping to use the vga input to run 1080p and bypass the Sammy's internal processing. It doesn't work. Others confirmed this as well. Using it in conjunction with the Sammy's internal processor makes the picture quality worse (especially in SD). I returned mine.
The more I look into, this is what I am seeing.

Why did they decide the VGA output didn't work? Was it the HDCP issue?

In earlier posts (page 60 or so) there were posts from a few, including myself, that discussed the performance of the VP30 with a 1080P Sammy. I have the HLR-6768 1080P and was hoping to use the vga input to run 1080p and bypass the Sammy's internal processing. It doesn't work. Others confirmed this as well. Using it in conjunction with the Sammy's internal processor makes the picture quality worse (especially in SD). I returned mine.

I fear that this is exactly what I am experiencing with my Fuji 40-series/AVM-II panel. I am also in contact with other Fuji/VP30 owners, and they are reporting the same things.

Even with the aid of a professional ISF calibration/technician, after spending several hours attempting to configure the VP30/Fuji combo, the resultant picture, as I have mentioned many times now, is worse than when directly connecting my source devices to the panel.

Unfortunately I too am veering towards returning the VP30, but I would certainly prefer to keep it if these issues can be addressed.

I guess I am hoping DVDO (Josh?) will be able to assist in working out how to override internal processing (if that is indeed the issue, and if it is actually possible) - I am assuming DVDO has relationships/contacts with display manufacturers, whom may also be able to assist?

many thanks

In earlier posts (page 60 or so) there were posts from a few, including myself, that discussed the performance of the VP30 with a 1080P Sammy. I have the HLR-6768 1080P and was hoping to use the vga input to run 1080p and bypass the Sammy's internal processing. It doesn't work. Others confirmed this as well. Using it in conjunction with the Sammy's internal processor makes the picture quality worse (especially in SD). I returned mine.

To get 1:1 pixel mapping you go into the service menu and toggle 1080i overscan on then off again and you will have 1:1 mapping. I do this when I turn on the set now. DNIe is permanetly disabled. The SD picture through the VP30 is as good as the HD+ was for me. It is better than going straight to the TV, but my set has also been calibrated so that might be why mine looks better.

I'm wondering if any folks local to DVDO have gotten any word on the audio issues. I was told they had a lead on the issue. I need this to be fixed asap or wife is going to have me dump the VP30. Video is great but was watching Madagascar last night and when Alex the lion gets shot by a dart and the screen goes blank I get a screeching scratch/pop at reference levels before the Vp30 picks up again. Guaranteed this was not a problem with the HD I had before. This is really annoying.

To get 1:1 pixel mapping you go into the service menu and toggle 1080i overscan on then off again and you will have 1:1 mapping. I do this when I turn on the set now. DNIe is permanetly disabled. The SD picture through the VP30 is as good as the HD+ was for me. It is better than going straight to the TV, but my set has also been calibrated so that might be why mine looks better.
What resolution are you outputting from the VP30? 1080i-60 or 1080i-50? 50 seemed much smoother to me.

And do you have to swap the overscan setting in the service menu everytime you turn the TV on?

One more thing, how did you disable DNIe permanately?

Thanks!

I have fixed the geometry with Mits RPTV by making some adjustments to the service menu. I pulled up the AVIA overscan pattern running directly from my Denon 3910 via dvi>hdmi It was around 4% for the top and bottom. Then I hooked up my 3910 back to the VP30 via dvi. The VP 30 is connected via dvi>hdmi. When I look at the overscan everything still looks good. When I pull up the internal Geometry test pattern, I can not see the white borders at all. I could use underscan to correct this, but the problem, if I use underscan to bring in these borders, now I am like 0% underscan

I have fixed the geometry with Mits RPTV by making some adjustments to the service menu. I pulled up the AVIA overscan pattern running directly from my Denon 3910 via dvi>hdmi It was around 4% for the top and bottom. Then I hooked up my 3910 back to the VP30 via dvi. The VP 30 is connected via dvi>hdmi. When I look at the overscan from the dvd everything still looks good. When I pull up the internal Geometry test pattern, I can not see the white borders at all. I could use underscan to correct this, but the problem, if I use underscan to bring in these borders, now I am like 0% underscan

In addition to color problems and the need to reset daily, I am also having HDMI audio dropout issues, I am using a single HDMI cable from my JVC 5u and outputting audio from the VP30 via coaxial, I am having around 1 aduio dropout per hour

Speters, you ideally want 0% to .5% overscan, this is the way I have my VP30 set up on my 65813

you can correct slight differences between Horz/Vert size (to make your perfect cirlce) from the VP30, under Zoom, get your sized corrected for each input, pan around using the VP30 to perfectly center, then use the underscan, you may need to pan around each input after using underscan to get things perfectly centered

-Gary

What resolution are you outputting from the VP30? 1080i-60 or 1080i-50? 50 seemed much smoother to me.

And do you have to swap the overscan setting in the service menu everytime you turn the TV on?

One more thing, how did you disable DNIe permanently?

Thanks!
I am using 1080i-60. Unfortunately you have to go to 1080i overscan when you first turn on the set and if you change the input. With the VP30 I am only on one input unless I'm using my PC or Xbox360 which are on the VGA input.
To disable DNIe there are 8 or 9 items in the DNIe menu that need to be turned off to disable it permanently. They are listed in the 1080P Samsung thread. I'm not sure what they are off hand. Prior to turning those off you had to do turn off the DNIe every time you turned on the set or changed input. Now if someone could find a way to keep it at 1:1 mapping it would make things easier. But I usually have to go into the SM anyway since that is the only way to activate the NR feature. It doesn't work through the regular menu. I'm still hoping that Samsung will offer a firmware upgrade to correct the bugs, but I think the chances are slim though.
The VP30 works well in my situation and fortunately I have no audio issues with the 5 components connected to it, 3 are using audio over HDMI. The only problem I have with the VP30 is the narrow range of the IR receiver. I have no problem with the distance, although I can't test past 13 feet but it must be in front of the VP30 for the remote to work. After I send my HD+ in for credit I plan to have them send me the new lens to install since that seems like it is the easiest route as long as it isn't difficult to install.

I am using 1080i-60. Unfortunately you have to go to 1080i overscan when you first turn on the set and if you change the input. With the VP30 I am only on one input unless I'm using my PC or Xbox360 which are on the VGA input.
To disable DNIe there are 8 or 9 items in the DNIe menu that need to be turned off to disable it permanently. They are listed in the 1080P Samsung thread. I'm not sure what they are off hand. Prior to turning those off you had to do turn off the DNIe every time you turned on the set or changed input. Now if someone could find a way to keep it at 1:1 mapping it would make things easier. But I usually have to go into the SM anyway since that is the only way to activate the NR feature. It doesn't work through the regular menu. I'm still hoping that Samsung will offer a firmware upgrade to correct the bugs, but I think the chances are slim though.
The VP30 works well in my situation and fortunately I have no audio issues with the 5 components connected to it, 3 are using audio over HDMI. The only problem I have with the VP30 is the narrow range of the IR receiver. I have no problem with the distance, although I can't test past 13 feet but it must be in front of the VP30 for the remote to work. After I send my HD+ in for credit I plan to have them send me the new lens to install since that seems like it is the easiest route as long as it isn't difficult to install.

Sounds like we have very similar setups -- the only other input on the TV being used is the VGA for the Xbox 360.

Have you tried outputing from the VP30 to the VGA input via the BNC cables?

You go into the service menu to activate noise redution each time as well? Is that something listed in the owner's thread too?

I'm new here, but not new to HT with my focus on audio. I'm just moving in the video direction and ordered the VP30 before thoroughly reading here and other sites.

I'll be using the Oppo 971 (already have it), an Xbox360, and Motorola HD set top for SD and HD cable running to a Toshiba direct view HD set (1080i) and will be moving to a 720p LCD front projector in the next 6 mos (an Epson for the boost in lumens).

My question: can the internal processing be turned OFF (on the VP30) for video on the Oppo input if I don't want to process that stream? I can't find it in the manual and haven't found it here...yet. Thanks, I've enjoyed reading about this so far, hopefully I won't have audio issues.

Brent

I originally bought the VP30 for use with 480i DVD output to my new HT front proj, with secondary use of watching HDTV thru my cable STB. It's HDMI switching and single cable-out solution were also enticing. As my HT with proj. are not finished yet, I have been using the VP30 solely with my 46" Sammy DLP RPTV thru Comcast Motorola DCT-6412 STB. It has become clear that the ONLY real use of the VP30 thru the cable box to HDTV is to slightly improve SD source material. While not the fault of the VP30, the STB does not allow any form of HD passthru and scales the image internally before sending it to the VP30. Only 480i out is sent to the VP30 for scaling.

In fact, under these circumstances (DCT-6412 w/ VP30), you often are getting images that are scaled twice which may be resulting in degraded image instead of improved. I understand Motorola is looking into a future STB that does pass-thru the signal for scaler processing, but that doesn't help currently. So, the point here is that unless you are bypassing other units' internal scalers', the VP30 (or any other) becomes a glorified switcher and SD converter. I'm sure it will do its intended job well in my coming HT, but with an STB or TV that doesn't allow bypassing its own scaler, the VP30 may not only be unnecessary, but actually degrade the signal IMO. I hope I am somehow incorrect and invite those who are more knowledgable to correct me.

I originally bought the VP30 for use with 480i DVD output to my new HT front proj, with secondary use of watching HDTV thru my cable STB. It's HDMI switching and single cable-out solution were also enticing. As my HT with proj. are not finished yet, I have been using the VP30 solely with my 46" Sammy DLP RPTV thru Comcast Motorola DCT-6412 STB. It has become clear that the ONLY real use of the VP30 thru the cable box to HDTV is to slightly improve SD source material. While not the fault of the VP30, the STB does not allow any form of HD passthru and scales the image internally before sending it to the VP30. Only 480i out is sent to the VP30 for scaling.

In fact, under these circumstances (DCT-6412 w/ VP30), you often are getting images that are scaled twice which may be resulting in degraded image instead of improved. I understand Motorola is looking into a future STB that does pass-thru the signal for scaler processing, but that doesn't help currently. So, the point here is that unless you are bypassing other units' internal scalers', the VP30 (or any other) becomes a glorified switcher and SD converter. I'm sure it will do its intended job well in my coming HT, but with an STB or TV that doesn't allow bypassing its own scaler, the VP30 may not only be unnecessary, but actually degrade the signal IMO. I hope I am somehow incorrect and invite those who are more knowledgable to correct me.

Ray,

I, for the most part, agree with your assesment of the VP30 and HD. BUT HD signals are often soooo nice as it is that I did not expect the VP30 to do anything more to the signal. Now the next gen product hopefully will HD by providing mosquito noise reduction and better HD deinterlacing.

I bought the VP30 to do some of the switching stuff but mainly to help DVD's and delay audio perfectly for the video processing. I think this is where scalers really are worth the money. If you really watch more dvd movies on a very large screen you can see differences with dvd's. This was more obvious on CRT pj's but I'm also noticing improvement with my new digital pj as well.

Having been a member of this forum for so long, let me just say, this is by far the most informative on topic part of AVS.

I am sending my HD off to get upgraded, and after reading this entire thread (well almost) I think the VP30 has a good future once the kinks are worked out. We all went through alot of this when the HD was in beta and first released to the public. But, I am sticking with my HD+ for now. I for one will wait till the next gen Sil chip or other variant comes out. I am extremely happy with the ability of the HD.

Ray,

I, for the most part, agree with your assesment of the VP30 and HD. BUT HD signals are often soooo nice as it is that I did not expect the VP30 to do anything more to the signal. Now the next gen product hopefully will HD by providing mosquito noise reduction and better HD deinterlacing.

I bought the VP30 to do some of the switching stuff but mainly to help DVD's and delay audio perfectly for the video processing. I think this is where scalers really are worth the money. If you really watch more dvd movies on a very large screen you can see differences with dvd's. This was more obvious on CRT pj's but I'm also noticing improvement with my new digital pj as well.

I agree completely. I was more frustrated at having a more capable scaler than the STB and no way to really use it. In no way am I condemning the VP30 on that score, though there are some audio/color glitches still. I am eagerly awaiting my new HT where I think the VP30 will shine in more ways than one, as you suggest. I guess my post reads more negatively about the VP30 than I intended. Plus I had gotten some confusing and conflicting info from some posts that seemed to indicate you could bypass the STB (which you can't) and that I had simply set up the system incorrectly. This was not the case. The VP30 is doing what it was meant to do and what it is allowed to do. Sorry about the confusion.

No confusion Ray. I totally understood your post. I don't think it was too harsh on the VP30 at all because I think you can make your statements about almost all the scalers.

It's hard to gather enough relevant information from everyone to see how things will affect your system since there are soooo many variables. And still after you complete your HT you may still find the VP30 not adding much to your system. I do think that we all may overstate to some degree how much a processor may help because we're all looking to improve different things. Now that I'm using a digital pj I'm noticing that the VP30 is not as much of a help in my chain of electronics as it was when I was using a CRT. BUT I'm looking forward to the next gen that SHOULD do more with HD material.

Oh, btw, I also hate my Moto 6412 cable box.

Just so I get this once and for all:

-Am I supposed to manually switch Input Aspect Ratio when I switch between different aspect ratio DVDs?

As it is now, I always have the Input Aspect Ratio set to 1.78:1, and the output is 16:9 (1.78:1). When I then put in a 2.35:1 DVD, it seems to work as intended, as I get the black borders on top and bottom. But is that incorrect in some way then? Am I supposed to manually switch to the 2.35:1 Input Aspect Ratio? If so, that seems a little tiresome to have to keep an eye on the DVD case and manually switch every time.


Another question: Film- and video based material. What is the difference? Is filmbased material always progressive and video interlaced? I heard that somewhere.

In fact, under these circumstances (DCT-6412 w/ VP30), you often are getting images that are scaled twice which may be resulting in degraded image instead of improved.

If you always set the 6412's output to match the source material, what processing is the 6412 doing?

I found this to work as well with my SA3250HD hooked up to the VP30 outputing
to a H79 projector via DVI. With this change, the projector doesn't resync
anymore, all I get is a 1 sec blue screen when changing between SD and HD
channels.

Thanks for this info. Same thing with my H79. When I select a framerate of unlock at 59.94 vs locked at 60, my projector doesn't have to resync everytime I switch between sources. With my old iSCAN HD, I always left it on locked (60). Does DVDO have an answer to this?

I have been using the VP30 solely with my 46" Sammy DLP RPTV thru Comcast Motorola DCT-6412 STB. It has become clear that the ONLY real use of the VP30 thru the cable box to HDTV is to slightly improve SD source material.
Actually, I have some pretty strong feelings about this. First, in my experience, the improvement one can see when viewing SD material from the Comcast box is not subtle, but rather dramatic.

See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5862822#post5862822

for an example.

However, it's interesting that you have the Samsung DLP RPTV. When I took my scaler over to a friend's house who also had that display, we noticed very little change, just as you did. I can only conclude that the improvement is display dependent or there is some other setup variable I haven't yet identified.

Second, running component 480i out of my Panasonic S97 into the VP30 and then out of the VP30 into my Optoma H79 via HDMI produces a noticeably better image than what I got running a 480P signal directly out of the Panny into the H79, component or HDMI. The improvement wasn't as dramatic as the color correction I saw with SD Comcast material, but it was not particularly subtle either, and by itself justified the purchase price.

Unless you have specific audio needs (in which you should probably get a dedicated CD player in any case), I really don't understand why people spend 2-3 thousand dollars on a fancy DVD player, when for about $2000 you can get a really good DVD player w this scaler.

As you can tell, I'm what you might call a satisfied customer.

I wanted to input composite and component sources and send the upscaled output to my projector via component cable. Can the DVDO VP30 do this? Sorry for the dumb question.

I wanted to input composite and component sources and send the upscaled output to my projector via component cable. Can the DVDO VP30 do this? Sorry for the dumb question.


There are no dumb questions. It's only dumb not to ask them. :)

The short answer to your question is yes. Of course the VP30 can do a lot more than just that.

In addition to color problems and the need to reset daily, I am also having HDMI audio dropout issues, I am using a single HDMI cable from my JVC 5u and outputting audio from the VP30 via coaxial, I am having around 1 aduio dropout per hour
-Gary

I recently posted that I was not having problems with the audio, but since that post I've also noticed audio dropouts using my Oppo DVD player hooked into HDMI 1. For the first few weeks using the VP30 I never noticed a problem, then I switched out the Oppo for my second Oppo (one I bought for my bedroom) just to compare the two on my RPTV. I'm now experiencing about one brief dropout every 20 or 30 minutes. I switched back to my old Oppo and the dropouts are still present. Very strange. All the audio cables have been carefully checked and swapped out with other cables just to make sure that is not the problem, and I still get the dropouts.

I'm now going to check to see if the same thing is happening with my RP-91 hooked up using SDI. And I'll move the Oppo to either HDMI 3 or 4 to see if that makes a difference. I haven't yet noticed a problem with my Samsung HD tuner hooked into HDMI 2.

If you always set the 6412's output to match the source material, what processing is the 6412 doing?

That was my original assumption - match the input (e.g. FOX=720p, CBS=1080i) and let the VP30 do the math. Two problems. One, sheer inconvenience - unless you only change btwn these channels on odd occasions, you will be powering off the STB, changing the output in the svc menu, then powering on the STB then finally getting a picture. Maybe some enjoy this little dance, but I don't and the WAF will certainly kick in as to why you have to do this btwn her two fav. shows, etc.

Second, and much more important - according to Motorola - it doesn't matter. They finally responded to my inquiry (they promise 48 hours, took over a week) and stated that the 6412 STB has no true "native" input and basically scales ALL HD signals coming in and outputs them as selected in the menu. I'm not familiar with the boxes electronics nor do I claim to understand how it's done, but they were reasonably clear that ALL are scaled. I have resorted to using their 1080i output since it is the STB's default setting and, hopefully, the VP30 is scaling that to 720p for my TV. That would then assume the 720p material from the STB is basically passed thru the VP30 to the display without further scaling since it was already scaled in the STB. Now I have a headache.

I recently posted that I was not having problems with the audio, but since that post I've also noticed audio dropouts using my Oppo DVD player hooked into HDMI 1. For the first few weeks using the VP30 I never noticed a problem, then I switched out the Oppo for my second Oppo (one I bought for my bedroom) just to compare the two on my RPTV. I'm now experiencing about one brief dropout every 20 or 30 minutes. I switched back to my old Oppo and the dropouts are still present. Very strange. All the audio cables have been carefully checked and swapped out with other cables just to make sure that is not the problem, and I still get the dropouts.

I'm now going to check to see if the same thing is happening with my RP-91 hooked up using SDI. And I'll move the Oppo to either HDMI 3 or 4 to see if that makes a difference. I haven't yet noticed a problem with my Samsung HD tuner hooked into HDMI 2.

Now that you mention this, I also have been getting audio dropouts. They only happen every 30-60 minutes or so which is probably why I didn't notice them too much. I'm using a Pioneer DVD (47A) which is connected via coax (for audio). Component for video. During any two hour movie, I probably get 2-3 drop outs. Not a huge deal, but my iSCAN HD never did this. My processor is a Sunfire TGIV. Seems strange.... SJ

RE: Audio dropouts

Do you guys notice if the dropouts are associated with any particular scenes? What I mean is, do you notice dropouts with fade to black scenes?

Thanks for this info. Same thing with my H79. When I select a framerate of unlock at 59.94 vs locked at 60, my projector doesn't have to resync everytime I switch between sources. With my old iSCAN HD, I always left it on locked (60). Does DVDO have an answer to this?

It was reported to DVDO via the help email addr. I received the same canned
reply when I originally opened it on Dec 28th stating priority is being given "to
customers that require direct service/repairs of presently owned hardware
and time-critical returns and upgrades".

Also reported:
o) Unable to negotiate digital audio (toslink and coax) between VP30 and pio 1014tx
o) BTB is not passed from a component input (Denon 3910) to the HDMI output.

I'd suggest opening up a ticket and see what happens.

Problems Using RGBHV input from Notebook

Had an interesting problem come up over the weekend using the RGBHV input on the VP30.

Had some friends over to show us their "slides" using PowerPoint on their notebook. I had previously checked out the VP30 with my own notebook, checked the operation on 1024 x 768 (actually exactly matches my display's native res vertically- my output setting is 1280 x 768 via HDMI into display's DVI input - non HDCP display), and all worked well and I was very pleased with how good it looked. Photos came up with 1 pixel resolution, just like the VP30's own menus. Now, that's really HD!!

But, once we connected my friend's notebook, still using the same 1024 x 768 res, and yes made sure it was 60Hz, the fun started. First of all, I couldn't get any display up, even though the LED on the VP30 was Blue, indicating it had a signal that it was happy with.

Then, sporadically, the picture would come up on the screen, and just as sporadically disappear again. The cycle rate was fairly rapid at first - about 2 -3 seconds, but later on very slow - sometimes it would hold up for several minutes and then blank out again for maybe just a few seconds.

Now, I should note that when the picture disappeared, the screen went black, ie. NOT blue. Thought, aha, the curtain has come across of its own accord, but that was not the case. Also checked to make sure the VP30 hadn't set its output to HDCP ON by itself, but that was OK too - but I could only see that once I got a picture on the display again. I could not get any VP30 menus to come up whilst the screen was black.

I then swapped over to my notebook, and all worked fine with mine. We continued the show using mine after my friend went home to collect the appropriate back up CDs he'd made.

In a somewhat similar vain, I periodically get a message from my display, telling me that the input format the VP30 is giving it, is not recognised by it. And yes, it generally happens when I select one of the first 2 HDMI inputs- but that could be purely coincidental as I only have 2 HDMI inputs (1 and 2) connected. Swapping over inputs, be it between HDMI or component inputs or doing some other fiddling with the VP30, generally gets it back again.

I queried my friend if he had had any trouble using his notebook with any other displays/PJs, but no, he'd never had any problems till now. Something pretty flakey going on here. I think a lot of the trouble maybe with this model's HDMI/HDCP implementation.

I'm not overly concerned at this stage, but we are getting a few problems surfacing that seem to have a generic base. I suspect that this problem has to do with "curtaining" even though that was/is not apparent from the menus on the VP30. I suspect that this and the audio problems stem from HDCP implementation. The HD+ was totally reliable, so I'm sure that DVDO will get most if not all these kind of bugs out in the next firmware release.

Phil.

P.S. For completeness, to help DVDO/anyone in diagnosing this problem, I have an SDI module fitted, but not in use at present.

P.P.S. As my notebook worked OK, I can only think of one possible difference here, and that is Sync polarity of the input to the VP30. However, I could not determine what it was/is from either notebook. There appears to be no way to set it on the VP30 RGBHV input menu, so I assume that either it is predetermined by convention, or the VP30 is capable of accepting any polarity on both vertical and horizontal sync inputs.

Second, and much more important - according to Motorola - it doesn't matter. They finally responded to my inquiry (they promise 48 hours, took over a week) and stated that the 6412 STB has no true "native" input and basically scales ALL HD signals coming in and outputs them as selected in the menu.

If this was an email exchange, I'd be interested in seeing the verbatim Q&A, if you still have the messages. For 1080i in&out, what scaling would be done? Anyone else know details?

If this was an email exchange, I'd be interested in seeing the verbatim Q&A, if you still have the messages. For 1080i in&out, what scaling would be done? Anyone else know details?

Well, to be honest, their response (e-mail) was mostly off-target, but did contain the line I paraphrased about scaling on all images. I will post that line here, the rest was just basic "canned response" on what 480i was and how SD is scaled and how the borders/black-bars work. Anyway, here is the only real part of interest. Maybe you will be able to decipher it more clearly than I could. I took it at face value:

"Response (Charlotte Mazariegos) - 01/14/2006 10:11 PM Hello Ray Thank you for choosing Motorola There is no "Native" mode for the output that will not scale the HD image. The settings are 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. This can be set through the Motorola menu (power down and press select). Depending on the 4:3 override their may be additional scaling. Here are the 4:3 override settings:..."

Well there is good news and there is bad, and then perhaps for someone else there may be very good news.

I installed the VP30 today after much reworking of cables and got it almost all working. The first good news is that I now have a independent test/exerciser program for the VP30 via the RS232 port. It can read and modify all of the settings in an easy point and click manner. It will also save all of the settings, and then reload them, it is table driven and easy to modify without the code. If anyone wants a copy (you need to be able to run VB6 programs, as I did not yet bother to build an install package), just drop me an email. It consists of an exe and an ini file, thats it. I normally do not provide source, some people get in too much trouble and it then becomes my fault. I will discuss.

Now the bad news. First the configuration 8 input devices:
2 HR10-250 D* DVR's driving out at 720p HDMI
2 Sony DVD mega changers driving out component at 480p (could make it 480i)
1 Roku Photobridge driving out component at 1280x720p
1 Sony PS2 driving out component at 1280x720??
1 PC out Component at 1280x720p through Village tronics adapter
1 Pioneer laser disk player driving S-Video
2 KDS MSW4x1 5 channel Component (Hi BW) switches ganged into a 7x1

The projector is a Benq PE8700 using component and Digital (DVI) inputs. With the VP30 the plan is to use only DVI in.

The audio feeds through the VP30 into a Lexicon MC1. HDMI uses Toslink, Component uses S/PDIF coaxial

With the VP30 I split the 2 component switches (two 4x1) and fed each one into one of the VP30 component inputs.

Took quite a while to get it setup. My system is very flexible and whenever an input source changes commands are sent to every device in the chain to set all required parameters. This includes recognition of the content and format(widescreen, full frame, NTSC, PAL, 2.35, 1.85, 1.33, 1.78, ...) of DVD's that are playing. This implies I can adjust the VP30 to very precise states based on input. I never had to do anything like that before, and do not see why I might have to now.

With the VP30 when an input switches, I set the proper input select for video, and the proper audio select. That all works very nicely. Quick and no problem. I do not think I should have to set anything else.

All output from the VP30 is Digital at 1280x720p. Color space is RGB. Display aperture is 16:9. The PJ's native resolution is 1280x720. Frame rate is 60hz locked. The PJ is set for no overscan and no underscan (The have a border test pattern). The PJ needs re-calibration, and that will be done.


Let me start with the HDMI issues. I previously used a Gefen 2x1 HDMI switch with Digital Audio. PJ had to resync each time I switched between DVR's, but picture was identical on each input, crystal clear, bright and sharp. I could never tell which DVR I was looking at based on the picture quality. With the VP30, HDMI input 1 looks okay but no where near as sharp as with the simple Gefen switch, HDMI2 looks "posterized color" and I can not tell why. Tried other HDMI inputs, other HDMI cables, it is always that DVR. Tomorrow I will put back the gefen switch and see if things clear up.

By the way, the OSD from the VP30 looks very good.

When I use the component input, the picture does not fill the display screen and is a little blurry. It was razor sharp and fully filled the display when I ran the output of the component switch directly to the Component input of the PJ. I once had an KDS HDLEEZA digital scaler, but IMHO the picture was better without the scaler and letting the PJ do whatever scaling of the input image it needed to. I sold it for just about what I paid for it. I suspect I will be selling the VP30 unless some one has a clue as to what might be going wrong, and can help me.

I will be doing some side by side comparisons (A real bitch because of the cabling issues). I want to see if I can first figure out the HDMI problem and then work the Component issues. I really do not care about the Laser disk (Any one want to buy one with 500 laser disks?)

If the VP30 does not give me an improvement over simple switches I will chalk it up to experience and put it up for sale. Bidding will start at about 1500, as the unit is in excellent condition (I will not say brand new, as the box has been opened and the unit plugged in and played with as described).

Any help will really be appreciated, but the sole objective is the best picture, not the fanciest equipment.

If any one knows of a possible buyer put me them in contact with me before I eBay it. I will keep a list

Barry you need to adjust the input and output colorspaces around to straighten up that crazy colored input, output is global but each source can have different input colorspace

-Gary

Thanks for the tip Gary. I put the whole system back the way it was with the Gefen HDMI switch. Lo and behold the bad D* DVR is still bad! The VP30 is absolved (at least for that issue). I suspect the HR10-250 has gone bad, probably had it turned on while I was recabling its output and might have blown someting, although that should not happen. It looks as if its color space is out of wack, backgrounds all look posterized bordering on a negative image. I do not know how to describe it. I will run a test later and drive the PJ directly from that DVR and will probably prove to myself that the DVR is the culprit. Oh well off to "discuss" with D*.

You mentioned the sharpness of the picture. That is one thing I noticed about all my inputs. I have to put the sharpness setting on 2 to make the picture look just as sharp without the VP30. If it is set on 0 it is definitely a little blurry compared to just inputting the source to my TV or even when comparing it to the HD+

RE: Audio dropouts

Do you guys notice if the dropouts are associated with any particular scenes? What I mean is, do you notice dropouts with fade to black scenes?

I'm going to need to pay closer attetion to this, but as far as I can tell right now, the dropouts seem entirely random other than I never get two dropouts spaced closely together, there is always at least around twenty minutes between the dropouts. I so far have not noticed any dropouts using SDI, but need to test more with this.

I'm going to need to pay closer attetion to this, but as far as I can tell right now, the dropouts seem entirely random other than I never get two dropouts spaced closely together, there is always at least around twenty minutes between the dropouts. I so far have not noticed any dropouts using SDI, but need to test more with this.

dude - now you have me paranoid - I always hear one, at layer change - now you want me to pay attention, see if I hear more? I do hear them occasionally on HD, but always thought it was a broadcast problem. Will see if I hear more than one on dvds.

Well, to be honest, their response (e-mail) was mostly off-target, but did contain the line I paraphrased about scaling on all images. I will post that line here, the rest was just basic "canned response" on what 480i was and how SD is scaled and how the borders/black-bars work. Anyway, here is the only real part of interest. Maybe you will be able to decipher it more clearly than I could. I took it at face value:

"Response (Charlotte Mazariegos) - 01/14/2006 10:11 PM Hello Ray Thank you for choosing Motorola There is no "Native" mode for the output that will not scale the HD image. The settings are 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. This can be set through the Motorola menu (power down and press select). Depending on the 4:3 override their may be additional scaling. Here are the 4:3 override settings:..."

What they mean by this is that the cable box does not have a mode that will automatically output 1080i stations at 1080i and 720p stations at 720p. You must choose one resolution or the other for output. If you choose 1080i output, all 720p stations are scaled to 1080i. Likewise, if you choose 720p output, all 1080i stations are scaled to 720p.

There is no additional processing to 720p stations if you choose 720p ouput, or to 1080i stations if you choose 1080i output.

The "4:3 override" setting allows you to choose a separate output resolution default for Standard-Def stations. So you can have Standard-Def stations output at 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i independent of how HD stations default to output.

Unfortunately, there is no "override" between 720p stations and 1080i stations.

"Response (Charlotte Mazariegos) - 01/14/2006 10:11 PM Hello Ray Thank you for choosing Motorola There is no "Native" mode for the output that will not scale the HD image. The settings are 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. This can be set through the Motorola menu (power down and press select). Depending on the 4:3 override their may be additional scaling. Here are the 4:3 override settings:..."

Thanks. I interpret that as just saying there's no output setting that's always pass-through (e.g., no equivalent to the "Native" output format setting on a Sony DHG-HDD250/500). Hard for me to interpret it as saying there's scaling going on even when input and output formats match.

What they mean by this is that the cable box does not have a mode that will automatically output 1080i stations at 1080i and 720p stations at 720p. You must choose one resolution or the other for output. If you choose 1080i output, all 720p stations are scaled to 1080i. Likewise, if you choose 720p output, all 1080i stations are scaled to 720p.

There is no additional processing to 720p stations if you choose 720p ouput, or to 1080i stations if you choose 1080i output.

The "4:3 override" setting allows you to choose a separate output resolution default for Standard-Def stations. So you can have Standard-Def stations output at 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i independent of how HD stations default to output.

Unfortunately, there is no "override" between 720p stations and 1080i stations.

Ok, thanks. I knew the 4:3 SD stuff. It was the scaling of HD I was concerned with. So, I am simply back to my original situation of having the inconvenience of changing resolution thru power off/on when switching channels, but no scaling is occuring as long as input/outputs match. That's reassuring. It would be nice if Motorola had an easier method (via remote?) to change the setting without power on/off - kind of like resetting resolution in Windows while the system is still active and not having to restart. But, of the two problems, I'm glad this is the one that I no longer (never did) have. Thanks again.

I watched a DVD last night which had some scenes of a circus (Five People You Meet In Heaven ... don't bother), including a big carousel and the trussing on a roller coaster. Using the VP30, I noticed a LOT of combing when the camera was panning. Another scene had two people in the foreground and a lake with trees surrounding it in the background. The trees were blowing in the wind, and at times the lake (which was supposed to be stationary) and the trees would all start moving in tandem. I thought it was quite odd, so today I plugged back in my HD+ and rewatched the same scenes. Guess what? HD+ did much better (but still not perfect). I've also noticed a lot of what appears to be combing on the text during NFL games this weekend. I don't know why combing would appear on stationary text, but there you are. I don't recall seeing anything like that on the HD+.

Also, when I first start up my system, I get black bars in the middle of the screen, like an "L" turned counterclockwise and resting on its back. The attached photo shows what I mean (the channel shown is an HD channel with a 4:3 show so the sidebars aren't part of the problem). All I have to do is change the channel on my cable box and the bars go away. Anyone else seen this? Might be a problem with my cable box rather than the VP30. And yes there is a lot of glare in the photo...

[EDIT: Did some research on the "L" issue and it is a problem with my cable box (SA8300HD) when using HDMI. FYI, there is a discussion here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6932213#post6932213) ]
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/18850/size/big
For reference, I use all HDMI on the VP30 and a DVI-->HDMI cable on the HD+. DVDs are 480i in and 1080i out; NFL is 1080i in and out.

I cannot output through D HR 1O-250 HDMI output to vp30
Is there is any problem with D HR 10-250 HDMI output
please somebody answer?

I cannot output through D HR 1O-250 HDMI output to vp30
Is there is any problem with D HR 10-250 HDMI output
please somebody answer?

it works fine for me...i didn't do anything special, I just put HDMI out from the HD DTivo to HDMI 2 input on the VP30, press HDMI 2 on the remote, it takes a second or so for it to realize the signal but it works fine. Are you sure your VP30 is outputting something to the TV, i.e. do you get the menus and such on your TV?
Does HDMI out directly to your TV work?

I have 2 HR10-250's they were both working as HDMI1 and HDMI2 on the VP30. Then one of them decided to blow its HDMI daughter card. (I have a bad habit of connecting and disconnecting with units powered up, probably my fault), The bad unit has posterized color which is a known HDMI daughter board failure for HR10-250's mfg prior to Nov 04.

There is no reason that the HDMI inputs of the VP30 will not accept the HDMI outputs of the HR10-25.

My experience with the VP30 so far has been very disappointing. When it is in the loop, picture quality is definitely degraded. I use component inputs with all my devices running through a 7x1 Very high quality Component switch, and HDMI inputs for the HR10-250's. I have yet to see something better with the VP30 in the loop than when it is out of the loop and I am just switching inputs directly into the PJ's DVI and YPbPr inputs. In that case the PJ does all of the scaling. It takes a while to lock onto the signal (the PJ that is), but it always seems to do a better job.

Just so I get this once and for all:

-Am I supposed to manually switch Input Aspect Ratio when I switch between different aspect ratio DVDs?

As it is now, I always have the Input Aspect Ratio set to 1.78:1, and the output is 16:9 (1.78:1). When I then put in a 2.35:1 DVD, it seems to work as intended, as I get the black borders on top and bottom. But is that incorrect in some way then? Am I supposed to manually switch to the 2.35:1 Input Aspect Ratio? If so, that seems a little tiresome to have to keep an eye on the DVD case and manually switch every time.


Another question: Film- and video based material. What is the difference? Is filmbased material always progressive and video interlaced? I heard that somewhere.
Noticed this hadn't been answered. If your DVD player is set to output 16:9 ("TV" or whatever the option is called on the DVD setup... is set to 16:9 or widescreen) then the input AR on the scaler should stay as 1.78:1 all the time.

Just a follow-up note

the Gefen DVI Detective device fixed the problem I was having with being able to switch back and forth from my HTPC and other input on the VP30

this is a know issue with ATI card with DVI output on recent drivers

I decide to get the inline gefen device and things are are now working well

so far -- I had little or no problem with my VP30 setup and the device I use with it

knock wood

Just a follow-up note

the Gefen DVI Detective device fixed the problem I was having with being able to switch back and forth from my HTPC and other input on the VP30

this is a know issue with ATI card with DVI output on recent drivers

I decide to get the inline gefen device and things are are now working well

so far -- I had little or no problem with my VP30 setup and the device I use with it

knock wood

addendum

I also added the hot link pro - IR extender to over come the short/direct IR issue - which is a VP30 issue -- versus above which is a ATI vid card issue


now the question -- wait for the rumor oppo 970 that will do direct digital 480i over hdmi or save the dollars for an SDI setup player and add the SDI input to the vp30 == $200 versus another $1500 (sdi card + denon 2910 SDI) - I wonder if the difference is there?? the rumored oppo maybe worth wating for to see

I'm having to feed my current player panasonic S97 via component since it is throwning a HDCP error when connected to the VP30 via hdmi



maybe worth wai

Next, I would like to address the audio issues that have been reported by users. We have been trying to duplicate these problems in our lab with the equipment that we have. From what we can tell these problems are hardware incompatibility issues as some systems do not exhibit any problems at all. It looks like several of those with issues are in our local area. We would like as much information about your system and if you are open to it we would like to come check out your system to try to debug the problem. If you are in the Bay Area and you would like to help us out, send an email to dvdo with your system info and contact information and 'VP30 Audio Help' in the subject line.

Please note that we have resolved one of the reported audio issues. The VP30 can pass 5.1 from an HDMI or Coax/Optical input over the HDMI output. If this output is connected to a display which can only process PCM or DD2.0 you may get noise through the speakers. This can be corrected by forcing the source to output one of these audio signals. If this is not an option you can use the analog audio input for that source.

Has the audio issue (popping when stream is interrupted) been resolved???

Would it be possible to add into the firmware a feature to independently shift red, green, and blue components at any direction by 1-2 pixels and blank out the now missing line at the opposite end? This may be helpful to those (like myself) who have misconverged panels in their projector and wouldn't mind converging them at the expense of cropping a few lines.

Would it be possible to add into the firmware a feature to independently shift red, green, and blue components at any direction by 1-2 pixels and blank out the now missing line at the opposite end? This may be helpful to those (like myself) who have misconverged panels in their projector and wouldn't mind converging them at the expense of cropping a few lines.
I'd have thought the hardware would need to support that, not just the firmware

These audio and color issues are killing me also, this thing is new I realize that and time is needed to get out the bug's, but I am seriously thinking of dumping this unit

The Color Decoder issues are something that have plagued the Iscan units for years, like the competition we need separate Hue/Sat. controls for Red Blue and Green

I got up this morning and turned my system one to check out a D-VHS tape I recorded last night(from my 5U deck into the VP30 with single HDMI cable) I sit back and hit play on my 5u and within a few seconds I was half out of my mind :mad: due to the high pictched screeching sound from the VP30
I swear this is going to Blow a speaker driver one of these times this happens :mad:

this happens at least once per day, requiring a disconnecting of the HDMI cable and a unplug of the unit, sometimes a reset is needed

the VP30 at this point in time is at a unacceptable stage right now, but I will give DVDO sometime to work some bugs out, If we can't get Hue/Sat. controls for Red Blue and Green then I am going to have 1900$ bucks in my pocket soon as I don't think I can deal with these color decoder issues which are causing sub-standard picture quality

-Gary

Gary,
You really seem to have a bad unit. Why don't you send it back and get another one? The IR replacement program makes this easy. SJ

My experience with the VP30 so far has been very disappointing. When it is in the loop, picture quality is definitely degraded. I use component inputs with all my devices running through a 7x1 Very high quality Component switch, and HDMI inputs for the HR10-250's. I have yet to see something better with the VP30 in the loop than when it is out of the loop and I am just switching inputs directly into the PJ's DVI and YPbPr inputs. In that case the PJ does all of the scaling. It takes a while to lock onto the signal (the PJ that is), but it always seems to do a better job.

Dumb question, but have you fully calibrated all of your video input sources at the VP30, and calibrated the projector for the VP30's output test patterns?

In what way is the picture degraded?

Last night I was watching a DVD through the VP30 using an all HDMI path. I paused the DVD, then switched to another input on my HS51 PJ. About a half our later, I switched the HS51 back to the HDMI input and had a gray screen. When I tried changing the inputs to the VP30 to figure out what was going on, I noticed that when I went back to the DVD on HDMI-1 I would see the paused image for a second, then the curtains would close to a gray screen. This is the same type of behavior I saw when trying a combination of HDMI and RGB, which seems to indicate the VP30 thinks there is an HDCP issue so it blanks the screen. I checked the input and output settings and both had HDCP set to On. Unplugging the VP30 for a minute fixed the problem, but afterwards the Audio input for HDMI-1 had been turned Off and I had to reset it to HDMI. I think the Brightness also got reset to zero, but not 100% sure.

This might provide some insight into some of the problems people have reported. It seems that when I switched my PJ to another input for a while, the VP30 decided that my PJ was not HDCP compliant and grayed out the image.

Just wondering if any other VP30 owners who have submitted problem reports
have heard from DVDO lately? Other than the canned "we're busy and will get
to your problem soon" reply.

I got an email reply from Josh on Friday after requesting for the original firmware for the VP30 on this thread...

I got an email reply from Josh on Friday after requesting for the original firmware for the VP30 on this thread...
I had a friend who is better with computers than I am, try to do the 1080i update. Unfortunately he is not as good at reading instructions. My VP30 is now totally frozen and I cannot even turn it off. I unplugged it, tried all reset options and still nothing. Josh wrote back once, but I haven't heard since. I am assuming they are all very busy right now and hope to hear something soon. Unfortunately, I had to postpone an appointment with David Abrams to calibrate the set. I will make sure everything is up and functioning again before I reschedule. :(

Update: I have already heard back from DVDO and will be sending in my unit for fixing. I believe the problems people are having will be addressed and fixed as soon as possible. This is one of the hazards of being first adopters. I certainly expect them to be more responsive that almost all manufactures

I am using a Mits 65813 RPTV. I noticed that when I select 540p and then display the test patterns, and select what I belive is the horizontal lines pattern, (the judder test is right after this test pattern), I can see the horizontal lines. If I select 1080i, that same pattern just turns black. The native res (is this the right word) for this set is suppose to be 1080i. DVDO recommended using 540p, but some others with this set recommend 1080i. I do notice that the cross hair pattern tends to jump around more with 1080i. With 540p it doesn't move at all, but I was told by selecting this, I am throwing away half of my resolution?

for the record, I have not had a lick of problems with my vp30, i am running my dvd 480p hdmi, and comcast hdmi, at 1080i into the vp30 and 1080i hdmi out to my tv. comcast still looks like pooh, in my area, they compress the crap out of the signal :( bummer, because hidef looks awsome. the the channels they compress are definetly worse then off air.

Hi all,

A fellow Fuji owner and forum-poster here in Australia received this information from Fujitsu.

Unless someone can please refute what is said here, it is pretty clear to me why I am getting such bad results from the VP30 (ie, because can not override internal fuji sclaing/processing). Not happy, as this is definitely news to me.

"Thanks for writing to Fujitsu General America. Congratulations on your Plasmavision display purchase. Our service department forwarded your message to me.

AVM (Advanced Video Movement) digital processing, and an improved version, AVM-II, were developed to enable our self-contained Plasmavision displays to deliver the best images possible among plasma displays. Some excellent outboard processors are available, and quite helpful when seeking to improve how competitors’ plasma images look, as you point out. But Plasmavision display owners don’t need outboard processors to improve picture quality, as the on-board AVM processor meets or exceeds the ability of outboard processors.

We recommend you disconnect outboard processors altogether, and enjoy the best possible plasma images by connecting source devices directly to our set’s inputs.

The AVM processor scales the signal and also de-interlaces, manages color space, and handles analog-to-digital conversion in a way that is best for plasma screens. AVM engineers designed all this in a way that allows the one-chip processor to assign these tasks and manage its own number-crunching resources in a flexible way specific to the signal and images coming into the chip, moment by moment. This method, exclusive to Fujitsu General –brand plasma displays, was designed by the guys who invented and introduced the first full-color plasma displays (with a Fujitsu chip-design team unequaled in that world, and plasma knowledge base going way back in 1993 )

Since it’s a one-chip processor, there is no way to bypass any of the processes (for instance, as you suggest, bypass the scaler). Fujitsu dealers are trained on the AVM chip abilities and we include this in the training. Also an AVSforum search might turn up clarifications I’ve posted there (as far back as mid-2003) that clarify this.

AVM is noted for making standard-definition images look better on our sets than competitors’ sets. Customers will be watching new and legacy standard-definition content for some years to come.

David Fink

director of training
Fujitsu General America, Inc.
610-344-0541"

snip....
Since it’s a one-chip processor, there is no way to bypass any of the processes (for instance, as you suggest, bypass the scaler). Fujitsu dealers are trained on the AVM chip abilities and we include this in the training. Also an AVSforum search might turn up clarifications I’ve posted there (as far back as mid-2003) that clarify this.

AVM is noted for making standard-definition images look better on our sets than competitors’ sets. Customers will be watching new and legacy standard-definition content for some years to come.

David Fink

director of training
Fujitsu General America, Inc.
610-344-0541

Hey Pandemik,

Would be good if you could, but that guy at Fujitsu certainly doesn't want you to believe you can!

Wouldn't be surprised though, if it could be done, as it's just too convenient a debugging tool to have on hand when you develop a system - you know, do a quick comparison with the scalers in and out. If you could just get to a Fuji engineer, you would/should get a truthful answer.

Phil.

Gary,

Have you used the 1/2 color bars of the VP30 and the color bars of your Sat Box and 5U at the same time. I am curious what the color bar comparison looks like, do you see the differences between the 2 test patterns?

Don, Yes I have and the difference is massive

-Gary

Don, Yes I have and the difference is massive

-Gary

Gary,

Have you contacted DVDO directly about this issue? I think you would be better served to contact them rather than look for a solution through these forums. If they are willing to send out replacement units for an "ir lens" issue, I am sure they would have no problem doing the same for your issue.

Posting comments such as the following:

the VP30 at this point in time is at a unacceptable stage right now, but I will give DVDO sometime to work some bugs out, If we can't get Hue/Sat. controls for Red Blue and Green then I am going to have 1900$ bucks in my pocket soon as I don't think I can deal with these color decoder issues which are causing sub-standard picture quality

is useless if you have not given them a chance to replace what seems to be a defective unit.

Good luck and I hope you get it sorted out.

Don, Yes I have and the difference is massive

-Gary

What do you have the input and output levels set to on the iScan VP30?

Please contact help@dvdo.com about your issues and we can address them.

I have installed all my components into my new theater and after some initial annoyances (sound disappearing) all seems to be working fine. Here is the chain:

VP30 - HDMI out
Video - Sharp Z2000 projector via HDMI to DVI converter
Sources - Denon DVD-2900 (480i component), DirecTV HR10-250 HD DVR (720P HDMI), Xbox 360 (720P component)

My question pertains to video calibration.

My DVD player has two options for "black" - lighter (7.5 IRE) or darker (0 IRE). My understanding is that HD sources like the DVR and the 360 are 0 IRE devices. So should I set the DVD player to 0 IRE so everything is set to 0 and then begin my calibrations?

Another factor is the projector. The DVI input has a switch for "PC" or "Video". Which should that be set to for the VP30's output?

Josh I am using DVI output which is RGB

for input I have it set to auto or I can select RGB, both are identical

this problem only shows itself when inputting HDMI RGB colorspace sources and outputing via DVI

I have 422 or 444 HDMI sources and they are fine when outputting DVI

I will send a email, Thanks

-Gary

Gary, I understand where you have the colorspace settings. I was asking about the input and output levels (PC or Video levels) and where you have them set to on your iScan VP30.

Can anyone comment on this:
I am using a Mits 65813 RPTV. I noticed that when I select 540p and then display the test patterns, and select what I belive is the horizontal lines pattern, (the judder test is right after this test pattern), I can see the horizontal lines. If I select 1080i, that same pattern just turns black. The native res (is this the right word) for this set is suppose to be 1080i. DVDO recommended using 540p, but some others with this set recommend 1080i. I do notice that the cross hair pattern tends to jump around more with 1080i. With 540p it doesn't move at all, but I was told by selecting this, I am throwing away half of my resolution?

I just noticed something new today. Everytime I select 1080i or 540p, the only things that I could change under format where H-shift and V-shift. Today I can select everything. I am not sure that I am suppose to be able to do this with a CRT, am I?

Hi Josh

On the subject of output levels - my output level setting is greyed out and can't be selected. My output is set to Analogue 852*480@50Hz, but it doesn't seem to make any difference - whatever format settings I have it's always greyed. I currently have the vp30 connected to the VGA input on my old Pana display, so I'd like to be able to set the level to PC.

Pete S

Josh, everything is Video output levels(on the input only Video level is selectable), Sorry about that

-Gary

Speters, make sure your user mode is set to Advanced ;) that allows you to adjust everything, but with a CRT it won't do you much good, as they are very picky about the set sync's and timing's

-Gary

Hi Gary - user mode is advanced already, which is the wierd thing. I've been messing around with the various format settings (h-front, etc.) so I know the "advanced" mode has "taken", but still no ability to change the output level. Strange.

Hi Gary - user mode is advanced already, which is the wierd thing. I've been messing around with the various format settings (h-front, etc.) Strange.

When first connecting the vp30, the image was slightly shifted left(CRT television). After changing the output "sync" to H+V+ (opposed to H-V-) the image popped back to perfect center.

I just noticed something new today. Everytime I select 1080i or 540p, the only things that I could change under format where H-shift and V-shift. Today I can select everything. I am not sure that I am suppose to be able to do this with a CRT, am I?

You must have changed the 'User Mode' from 'Normal' to 'Advanced'. All of the 'Advanced' settings are grayed out when you are in 'Normal' User Mode.

I wanted to ask a question in this thread
has anyone ever had a bad HDMI or DVI cable that caused color issues ??
(I am using a cheap DVI to DVI cable with a adapter at one end)

I think I will try one last thing in ordering a new HDMI to DVI cable before I waste DVDO's time with what could be a bad cable, it seems far fetched but I have seen crazier things in this hobby

-Gary

I was watching a couple of the CSI shows (in DD 5.1) and I'm now noticing a slight pop/click occasionally from my back surround speakers. I initially thought it was bad DD coding from the source provider, but with all of the audio comments about the VP30, I thought I would mention it. Source is a DISH 942 (HDMI/Video and optical audio) to the VP30. If it keeps it up, I will try going direct into my processor with the audio to see what happens. SJ

I wanted to ask a question in this thread
has anyone ever had a bad HDMI or DVI cable that caused color issues ??
(I am using a cheap DVI to DVI cable with a adapter at one end)

I think I will try one last thing in ordering a new HDMI to DVI cable before I waste DVDO's time with what could be a bad cable, it seems far fetched but I have seen crazier things in this hobby

-Gary

I had that exact problem with my cable (which also had an adaptor). I could actually jiggle the cable and see the colors changing.... SJ

Has anyone ever had a bad HDMI or DVI cable that caused color issues ??


Yes, I have had problems with some adapters. I highly suggest you try another adapter or a DVI-to-HDMI cable to isolate the problem.

Can anyone comment on this:
I am using a Mits 65813 RPTV. I noticed that when I select 540p and then display the test patterns, and select what I belive is the horizontal lines pattern, (the judder test is right after this test pattern), I can see the horizontal lines. If I select 1080i, that same pattern just turns black. The native res (is this the right word) for this set is suppose to be 1080i. DVDO recommended using 540p, but some others with this set recommend 1080i. I do notice that the cross hair pattern tends to jump around more with 1080i. With 540p it doesn't move at all, but I was told by selecting this, I am throwing away half of my resolution?
I've seen the same behavior and have always been curious about it. Using a Mits 73615. When the display is sent a 540p signal that test pattern is rock solid, when sent a 1080i signal it's moving around a lot. When source material is viewed, I don't see the problem, only with that test pattern.

Tomorrow is VP30 day. I have completed all of the prelims to install the VP30. It will be handling 3 or 4 HDMI signals and 1 or 2 component inputs, one of the components being a 7x1 Component switch.

The display device is a Benq PE8700. To save me a little time is there anyone listening that is using a VP30/Benq PE8700 combination? If so what are your output settings? I plan to have the output of the VP30 match the Benq (exactly if possible) no matter what the input is so the Benq does not alter the image at all.

A second question. A Cable DVR (Scientific Atlanta 8300HD) has an option to put out multiple resolutions, depending on input signal, or to put out a single resolution, or some number between the two. If it is putting out a single my understanding is that it will scale all to that, If all resolutions are possible it will scale none. Is anyone out there knowledgable on this and could you supply some advice?

I've seen the same behavior and have always been curious about it. Using a Mits 73615. When the display is sent a 540p signal that test pattern is rock solid, when sent a 1080i signal it's moving around a lot. When source material is viewed, I don't see the problem, only with that test pattern.
The reason you see the test pattern motion with 1080i is because it's interlaced. The test pattern is composed of 540 white 1-pixel high lines spaced 1-pixel apart. Consequently, every other field is all white (the white lines in the pattern) and the alternate fields are all black (the black lines in the pattern). Essentially, you have a signal which is sending a full field of white, then a full field of black, then white, etc.

With 540p, the test pattern is composed of 270 white lines each vertically separated by a black line. All 270 black & white line pairs are shown every frame period, instead of the alternating full-field white/black pattern you have with 1080i. We disable the 1080i test pattern for horizontal lines because of it's performance on a 1080i interlaced CRT display - it flashes like crazy and is extremely annoying.

You don't typically see this problem with normal 1080i program material because it's vertically filtered so that there are no 1-pixel high features. The test pattern is actually a worst-case situation that doesn't happen in real images.

- Dale Adams

A second question. A Cable DVR (Scientific Atlanta 8300HD) has an option to put out multiple resolutions, depending on input signal, or to put out a single resolution, or some number between the two. If it is putting out a single my understanding is that it will scale all to that, If all resolutions are possible it will scale none. Is anyone out there knowledgable on this and could you supply some advice?

The answer depends upon what software you have on your 8300. Mine has Passport. Some run SARA. What I say here applies only to Passport.

I have set my 8300 to output both 480i and 1080i. For HD channels, it outputs the latter and for all other channels it reverts to the former (which allows the VP30 to work its magic). I tried enabling 720p as well (for FOX, primarily), but for some reason 1080i gave me better results. Note also that at least with the Passport version of the 8300, if you are using HDMI, you will get black bars on your screen each time you turn the unit on. Changing channels or bringing up the guide will clear the bars.

Note that if you are using 1080i out of the 8300 and out of the VP30, you'll need the VP30 firmware update.

I'll be interested in your experience, particularly if you have the Passport version. I've noticed a lot of jaggies that I didn't see with the HD+, with both 480i and 1080i output from the 8300 and with DVD at 480i. It would appear that the VP30 is losing lock, but who knows.

I have set my 8300 to output both 480i and 1080i. For HD channels, it outputs the latter and for all other channels it reverts to the former (which allows the VP30 to work its magic).

I'm not familar with the Passport vs. SARA versions of the 8300, but it would seem that a "pass-through" option would be the best setting for it's output. Configuring the 8300 to output 1080i for all HD means that the cable box is doing it's own scaling for native 720p content. I suspect that the VP30's scaling would perform this task much better than the cable box.

I'm not familar with the Passport vs. SARA versions of the 8300, but it would seem that a "pass-through" option would be the best setting for it's output. Configuring the 8300 to output 1080i for all HD means that the cable box is doing it's own scaling for native 720p content. I suspect that the VP30's scaling would perform this task much better than the cable box.

I would have thought so too, but as I mentioned, I tried passing 720p but got better results sending 1080i to the VP30. Go figure.

How do you tell which software (SARA vs Passport) is on th 8300?

The reason you see the test pattern motion with 1080i is because it's interlaced. The test pattern is composed of 540 white 1-pixel high lines spaced 1-pixel apart. Consequently, every other field is all white (the white lines in the pattern) and the alternate fields are all black (the black lines in the pattern). Essentially, you have a signal which is sending a full field of white, then a full field of black, then white, etc.

With 540p, the test pattern is composed of 270 white lines each vertically separated by a black line. All 270 black & white line pairs are shown every frame period, instead of the alternating full-field white/black pattern you have with 1080i. We disable the 1080i test pattern for horizontal lines because of it's performance on a 1080i interlaced CRT display - it flashes like crazy and is extremely annoying.

You don't typically see this problem with normal 1080i program material because it's vertically filtered so that there are no 1-pixel high features. The test pattern is actually a worst-case situation that doesn't happen in real images.

- Dale Adams

Thanks for the explanation, and as I noted, the phenomena does not reflect what you get in real source material but I have been mildly curious about it. I'm sure speters appreciates the explanation as well. :)

I wanted to ask a question in this thread
has anyone ever had a bad HDMI or DVI cable that caused color issues ??
(I am using a cheap DVI to DVI cable with a adapter at one end)

I think I will try one last thing in ordering a new HDMI to DVI cable before I waste DVDO's time with what could be a bad cable, it seems far fetched but I have seen crazier things in this hobby

-Gary

There are colorspace problems with some upconverting DVD players. They do not use HD colors when upconverting so the display thinks it is using HD colors. Some players have options to select the colorspace. Could this be your problem?

-- Rich

How do you tell which software (SARA vs Passport) is on th 8300?

The easiest way to find out if you have Passport or not is to reboot the box. Passport boxes display the Passport logo during bootup (I have no idea what a SARA box does). There are other ways to tell if you're running SARA. If you have a menu option to change the color of the sidebars for 4:3 programming, it's SARA. If you have menu options, under "Resolution" (???), like "Up-convert 1", "Up-convert 2", and so on, you've got SARA.

I've noticed a lot of jaggies that I didn't see with the HD+, with both 480i and 1080i output from the 8300 and with DVD at 480i. It would appear that the VP30 is losing lock, but who knows.

Attached is an example of the type of jaggies I see with the VP30. This is 480i input / 1080i output, HDMI in and out. As you can see, not such a great picture. Actually, I may have had to reduce the file size so much that you can't see anything.... Among other things, the "N" is streaking...

I tried enabling 720p as well (for FOX, primarily), but for some reason 1080i gave me better results.

I think this is part of the bug they have. I get the same results from the VP30 when I input 720P and output 1080i as I did when I input 1080i and output 1080i when I first received unit. After the firmware upgrade the picture is correct after I input 1080i and output 1080i. But I just realized the other day when I wacthed LOST and Housewives that when I input 720P and output 1080i it didn't look right. So I put on the HDNet test pattern and sure enough I had the same effect that the 1080i bug had. So for now I have to let my HD TiVo upconvert to 1080i instead of the VP30. Hopefully this bug will be addressed when they update the firmware.I was just trying 720P out anyway since I usually output 1080i from my TiVos. Otherwise I would have noticed the problem a month ago.
Hopefully they know about this, if not I hope they know about it now after this post.

I received a RMA from DVDO, but I am going to try another cable before I send the unit in

I just ordered a new High quality 15 Foot DVI to HDMI cable, so I will see how that goes

Thanks guys, DVDO is great when it comes to Customer Service

-Gary

Attached is an example of the type of jaggies I see with the VP30. This is 480i input / 1080i output, HDMI in and out. As you can see, not such a great picture. Actually, I may have had to reduce the file size so much that you can't see anything.... Among other things, the "N" is streaking...
I can't tell for sure from the picture, but is the grid in the background the pixel matrix from your display or from the camera? I'm trying to determine if the jaggies are at SD or HD resolution. This looks to me like the field order may be reversed, but I can't quite be sure from the image (although I think it's and SD-resolution issue).

What type of display are you using? Do you know how it handles a 1080i image - i.e., how it deinterlaces it?

- Dale Adams

I think this is part of the bug they have. I get the same results from the VP30 when I input 720P and output 1080i as I did when I input 1080i and output 1080i when I first received unit. After the firmware upgrade the picture is correct after I input 1080i and output 1080i.
The problem fixed by the firmware upgrade affects only the case where both the input and output are 1080i. The nature of the problem is such that a 720p input would not trigger it.

But I just realized the other day when I wacthed LOST and Housewives that when I input 720P and output 1080i it didn't look right. So I put on the HDNet test pattern and sure enough I had the same effect that the 1080i bug had.
HDNet is 1080i. If you're sending the VP30 a 720p resolution from your HD TiVo then it is first performing a format-conversion on the 1080i HDNet test pattern. That's going to change how it looks significantly. What type of artifacts are you seeing when the input is 720p?

So for now I have to let my HD TiVo upconvert to 1080i instead of the VP30. Hopefully this bug will be addressed when they update the firmware.I was just trying 720P out anyway since I usually output 1080i from my TiVos. Otherwise I would have noticed the problem a month ago.
Hopefully they know about this, if not I hope they know about it now after this post.
I don't believe we've seen any other instances of this. What type of display are you using? Do you know how it deinterlaces 1080i?

- Dale Adams

I can't tell for sure from the picture, but is the grid in the background the pixel matrix from your display or from the camera? I'm trying to determine if the jaggies are at SD or HD resolution. This looks to me like the field order may be reversed, but I can't quite be sure from the image (although I think it's and SD-resolution issue).

What type of display are you using? Do you know how it handles a 1080i image - i.e., how it deinterlaces it?

- Dale Adams

I think that the background is a combination of both the camera and the pixel matrix on my display, a 42PX20. I'm not sure how it deinterlaces -- some proprietary method is all I've been able to get officially -- but I suspect that it is linear. The NR is 1366x768 but, of course, the unit won't accept its NR. I'm in the market to replace this unit with a bigger, better, 1080p unit, but in any event I did not have this problem with the HD+! I'm attaching another pic which may be more clear.

I think that the background is a combination of both the camera and the pixel matrix on my display, a 42PX20. I'm not sure how it deinterlaces -- some proprietary method is all I've been able to get officially -- but I suspect that it is linear. The NR is 1366x768 but, of course, the unit won't accept its NR. I'm in the market to replace this unit with a bigger, better, 1080p unit, but in any event I did not have this problem with the HD+! I'm attaching another pic which may be more clear.
Is the smaller of the 2 images the source image? It doesn't show any artifacts (other than 'normal' compression artifacts).

There's definitely a problem. I'm just not sure where it's at. Do you see any issues with any of the iScan's test patterns when the VP30's output format is 1080i?

- Dale Adams

The problem fixed by the firmware upgrade affects only the case where both the input and output are 1080i. The nature of the problem is such that a 720p input would not trigger it.


HDNet is 1080i. If you're sending the VP30 a 720p resolution from your HD TiVo then it is first performing a format-conversion on the 1080i HDNet test pattern. That's going to change how it looks significantly. What type of artifacts are you seeing when the input is 720p?


I don't believe we've seen any other instances of this. What type of display are you using? Do you know how it deinterlaces 1080i?

- Dale Adams

With the HD+ If I input the HDNet test pattern at 720P it looked fine. If I input straight into my Samsung 1080P DLP at 720P it looks fine. When I input 720P into the VP30 the test pattern looks exactly the same as it did with the 1080i input/output bug. As if half the resolution is missing. Instead of seeing a circle it is very jagged. This is exactly how it looked with the 1080i bug. Use the HD+ or go straight into the Samsung at 720P with the HDNet test pattern and you have a smooth circle.

With the HD+ If I input the HDNet test pattern at 720P it looked fine. If I input straight into my Samsung 1080P DLP at 720P it looks fine. When I input 720P into the VP30 the test pattern looks exactly the same as it did with the 1080i input/output bug. As if half the resolution is missing. Instead of seeing a circle it is very jagged. This is exactly how it looked with the 1080i bug. Use the HD+ or go straight into the Samsung at 720P with the HDNet test pattern and you have a smooth circle.
Thanks for the clarification. I'll try to reproduce this. If you have any 720p sources other than an HD TiVo, could you see if the problem is there as well?

- Dale Adams

Dale - fwiw, and it is really counter-intuitive, I am feeding OTA HD from a Samsung 165 to the VP, to my Runco 980 Ultra. I find I get a sharper picture outputting 1080i from the STB, to the VP, and then sending 720p to the 980, as opposed to sending NR 720p from the box to the VP to the pj. No idea - quite possibly a red herring, but my experience. Even when the OTA feed is 720p - as in the playoff games last weekend. The score text was noticeable sharper with the up and down conversions, as opposed to sending 720p straight thru everything.

Well, I tried a test with the VP30, feeding it a 720p signal over HDMI, scaling to 1080i, and then observing the output. The 1080i HDMI output of the VP30 was run through a 1080i deinterlacer (just a little thing I happen to have sitting around :D), but I saw no issues with the signal - i.e., no misalignment of fields or the type of jagginess that's shown in the posted images.

Now, my 720p source wasn't an HD TiVo, but rather a signal generator that I know puts out a high-quality signal. There may be some type of equipment compatibility issue that's not showing up with the gear I'm using. I'll have access to an HD TiVo next week, so I can run some more tests then. I'll also see if someone else from ABT can duplicate what you're seeing.

- Dale Adams

I just cabled up the VP30. Two items into HDMI, One into component. Output HDMI

Using the toslink audio out all I get is motorboating. No audio. I assign the audio to HDMI when using the HDMI inputs, and to Audio1 which I have the Component devices toslink output plugged into.

If I by pass the audio going to the VP30 and feed it instead directly to inputs on my Prepro, lip sync is a hair off (As I would expect) but there is audio from each device through its toslink outputs.

The devices are a DVR H10-250 on HDMI1, a SA 8300HD on HDMI2 and a HR10-250 on Component2 with audio on audio 1 (toslink)

I was getting good audio at one time, But not know.

Any thoughts.? I guess I have to hook them up one by one to see if one of them is causing the problem.

Barry - haven't had that problem, but niether am I sending any audio over HDMI - just video. You are sending the audio from HR10 to VP, and then to prepro, right? And setting the audio association after/while viewing the HR10 over component 2? If nothing else, you should be able to do it the dumb way, just hit C2, and while watching the picture, scroll to the audio choices, and go thru them until you get the right sound. (my eyes aren't the best - I know I have the toslink and digital coax connected, but rather than care which input they are in, I just scroll. Don't laught - it works.) If there is still no sound, do as you said, and pull both HDMI - I would be very surprised if there was still no sound over the toslink. But you do really have to jam the toslink in - I had no sound either, until I pushed a lot harder than I ever had before with any other piece of equipment. The VP30 optical connectors are much tighter/stiffer than on any of my prepros. Or anything else.

I just cabled up the VP30. Two items into HDMI, One into component. Output HDMI

Using the toslink audio out all I get is motorboating. No audio. I assign the audio to HDMI when using the HDMI inputs, and to Audio1 which I have the Component devices toslink output plugged into.

If I by pass the audio going to the VP30 and feed it instead directly to inputs on my Prepro, lip sync is a hair off (As I would expect) but there is audio from each device through its toslink outputs.

The devices are a DVR H10-250 on HDMI1, a SA 8300HD on HDMI2 and a HR10-250 on Component2 with audio on audio 1 (toslink)

I was getting good audio at one time, But not know.

Any thoughts.? I guess I have to hook them up one by one to see if one of them is causing the problem.

I believe I experienced this last night. I changed the audio output mode to Dolby Digital on my 10-250 and suddenly all of my HDMI sources audio sounded like a "motorboat". I performed a factory reset and all is fine now. My devices are 10-250 on HDMI 1, 59avi on HDMI 2, Xbox 360 on Component 1. Audio out is via toslink.

I assume by factory reset, you mean reset to factory defaults or is there something else I did not see?

I had to unplugged my SA8300HD (reboot) to cure an audio issue. Of all the devices I have plugged into the VP30, this is the only unit which has given me any problems. If I went into the menu on the SA8300HD and switched it to stereo/PCM (vs. DD or HDMI), the sound would return to normal; however, as soon as I selected DD/HDMI, the motorboat sounds would start. Once I rebooted the SA8300HD everthing was fine with DD. Has worked fine ever since, but it would not suprise me if it happened again.... SJ

I assume by factory reset, you mean reset to factory defaults or is there something else I did not see?

Yes, exactly. I also tried turing all devices off and then back on and the problem persisted. Only after restoring factory defaults did the problem resolve. Obviously record all of your VP 30 settings so you can reenter them easily.

I assume by factory reset, you mean reset to factory defaults or is there something else I did not see?

You can also reset the VP30 this way (page 38 in the manual), which goes beyond just resetting to factory defaults in the menu:

Unplug the power supply from the unit

Press Menu and Exit buttons simutaneously on the front of the unit while plugging the power back in

I had to do this with the VP30 when I first got it in order to get it to the point where I could set it up to work with my system.

I think I am going to try this again to see if gets rid of the audio dropouts.

When unplugging the unit, leave it unplugged for about 15 seconds before plugging it back in for the reset, I had to do this to get the reset to take effect. If you just unplug and then plug right back in, then the reset may not work.

Tried all of that. I have connected the inputs one at a time. No matter which of the three (HR10-250 DVR On HDMI1, HR10-250 DVDR on Component2 with audio going to Audio1, and SA8300HD on HDMI3) Are selected the motorboat audio exists. I have rebooted all three and restored factory defaults on the VP30 all to no avail. If I connect (cable) the inputs one at a time each one fails when connected. I suspect there is something bad inside of the VP30 and will test customer support.

In the mean time I am routing audio around the VP30 reusing the Toslink from the Audio out of the VP30 so I know there is nothing wrong with the cable or the PRE PRO as i use different input ports.

I am stumped, unless of course the VP30 is NFG

I have been unable to fix the motor boating audio problem. As long as I am feeding a dolby digital stream to the VP30 it will motorboat. It will do this if the audio stream is on the HDMI input or a separate (e.g. Audio 1-4) line.

If I cause the source not to put out a dolby digital signal but rather a two channel stereo, it comes out fine. It is exhibiting this with all the HMDI connectors and anything I put onto the Optical audio inputs. I have tried resetting all source (full power cycles) resetting the VP30 to factory defaults,.... I have not got that much hair left and this is not helping me. I have not been able to get to the point of evaluating PQ, as all of this other issues which should not be occurring, are.

I will be in contact with DVDO to see about RMA'ing the unit back to them for a replacement as I am 90% sure it the unit. i say tis because in all cases if i take the Toslink audio output from any of the three source and feed it directly to the MC-1 AV processor, it plays fine. It is just when the VP30 is in the audio loop that the problem occurs. It really sounds to me like a hardware failure.

Barry--

I have the same cable box that you have (SA8300HD) and I'm not having issues (well, not the issue you describe) with my VP30. I think you've got a faulty unit.

I agree. You might have gotten a faulty unit. I had problem passing audio through HDMI to VP30 with VP30 connected to receiver via coax. After I did the factory reset everything is fine & I can pass audio from Pioneer 59AVi & JVC 5U via HDMI with VP30 stripping the audio off to coax digital output.

Barry
I have the same issue with all my audio connections. Factory resets didn't help me either. I RMA'd my unit and the new replacement does the same thing. My proc is a Bryston SP1. I was really hoping to hear of a SW fix for this by now, but haven't heard anything from DVDO on the subject recently.

Quick questions for the folks at DVDO.

Dale,

Quicky about 48Hz framerate. I was watching Sky Captain and Wedding Crashers last night when I noticed stuttering (kind of like a still frame fast forward) occur twice within both movies. This lasted for about 15-30 seconds each time then corrected itself. I figure this is from framrate conversion. I'm currently running 1080p out at 48Hz to a Sony VPL W100 (Ruby). I never saw this happen before with the iScan HD at 720p at 48Hz to my CRT pj. I noticed that once it occurs it reoccurs about 40 minutes later. If I rewind and replay, no stutter so I don't think its the material. When I run the judder test pattern no judder or tearing. BUT I've never, and really don't plan to, run the test for 40 minutes or more.

So I was wondering if I can expect this everytime I watch a move with the framerate conversion or is this a glitch in the VP30 software? Is this a compatibility issue with the Ruby? (though I expect that if it doesn't work, then it shouldn't work the whole time not just every 40 minutes). Thoughts? The PJ notes 1920x1080 at 47.95. Is the timing off by a little?


And to Josh@DVDO,

Please please please update us on the audio popping/screeching issue. I had to take the VP30 out of the audio chain in the middle of a movie because of the now predictable screech. Anytime the audio signal goes dead the speakers shriek. In the previews and menus, every fad to black leads to a pop/screech. Before I tolerated it because it would only happen during the menus. But now it occurs during movies. Again as I noted before the sudden fade to black and silence during one scene in Madagascar and now it scared the crap out of me and my wife during a poor/lengthy layer change in Wedding Crashers. (DVDP to PJ = no audio problems at all so my processor can't be that sensitive) Please tell me you can fix this. The wife wants the VP30 gone. She wants me to send it back to AVS or just sell it. It's ruining our movies. Please tell me this can be fixed. Heck, just frankenstein in the audio portion of the iScan HD. DVDO had it right before, now is it possible to get it right now?

Andy

I too have had the audio problems described and have been in contact with DVDO for some time, They think they know the problem and expect a SW fix this coming week. I have my fingers crossed!!

Quicky about 48Hz framerate. I was watching Sky Captain and Wedding Crashers last night when I noticed stuttering (kind of like a still frame fast forward) occur twice within both movies. This lasted for about 15-30 seconds each time then corrected itself. I figure this is from framrate conversion. I'm currently running 1080p out at 48Hz to a Sony VPL W100 (Ruby). I never saw this happen before with the iScan HD at 720p at 48Hz to my CRT pj. I noticed that once it occurs it reoccurs about 40 minutes later. If I rewind and replay, no stutter so I don't think its the material. When I run the judder test pattern no judder or tearing. BUT I've never, and really don't plan to, run the test for 40 minutes or more.

So I was wondering if I can expect this everytime I watch a move with the framerate conversion or is this a glitch in the VP30 software? Is this a compatibility issue with the Ruby? (though I expect that if it doesn't work, then it shouldn't work the whole time not just every 40 minutes). Thoughts? The PJ notes 1920x1080 at 47.95. Is the timing off by a little?
The frame rate conversion (FRC) hardware in the VP30 should be identical to that in the HD. However, I worked personally on the iScan HD but did not on the VP30. I've never actually looked at the FRC on the VP30, so I suppose it's possible there's an issue, but I don't know of any reason why there should be.

One key thing in your setup that's different is the projector. A CRT projector will perfectly show the frame rate coming out of the video processor. This is not necessarily the case for a digital projector. Most of them will buffer the signal in some way, and many digital displays perform some type of FRC. I don't know what's in your Sony projector, though, and I've never had the opportunity to use one.

With respect to the projector's reported frame rate from the VP30: The VP30 in 48 Hz locked mode should produce exactly 4 output frames for every input field. The exact output frame rate will depend on the frame rate of the source being input into the VP30. If that source is fast or slow, then the output will be proportionally fast or slow. 47.95 Hz is the correct nominal frequency number for a standard 60 Hz source (which is really 59.94 Hz).

What source are you using? The VP30 will not be able to lock the 48 Hz output to the original 24 Hz film rate if the input is not 480i. E.g., if you're using a 480p signal into the VP30, there's no guarantee that you get exactly 4 output frames for every 5 input frames.

Have you seen this effect on anything but the 2 movies you mentioned - i.e., has it repeated itself since then or have you seen it on anything else? Unfortunately, it sounds like the problem is not repeatable, which will make it very difficult to track down.

One more observation: My initial reaction to 40 minute interval between occurrences of the problem is that this is being caused by the projector. The hardware in the VP30 locks to the input signal and the output is derived solely from that rate. You might get some small stutters if the VP30 loses lock on the 3:2 cadence of the source, such as might happen with a bad edit, but nothing that would last more than a few frames. This should also be repeatable. My experience with FRC display problems is that a recurring problem at a fixed interval is usually the fault of the display. However, 40 minutes is a much larger period than I would expect if there were such a problem.

I'll check with the VP30 hardware designers to see if there might be anything different from the iScan HD.

- Dale Adams

Same thing with my H79. When I select a framerate of unlock at 59.94 vs locked at 60, my projector doesn't have to resync everytime I switch between sources. With my old iSCAN HD, I always left it on locked (60). Does DVDO have an answer to this?

Does DVDO (Dale?) know about this? What is the difference between locked at 60 vs. unlocked at 59.94. I'm currently keeping my VP30 unlocked/59.94 because then my projector does not have to resync every time I switch inputs on the VP30. Just get a quick blue screen as the input changes. If I use the locked/60, the projector has to resync almost every time I switch sources (especially HDMI sources). The sweep pattern looks fine on both. SJ

Does DVDO (Dale?) know about this? What is the difference between locked at 60 vs. unlocked at 59.94. I'm currently keeping my VP30 unlocked/59.94 because then my projector does not have to resync every time I switch inputs on the VP30. Just get a quick blue screen as the input changes. If I use the locked/60, the projector has to resync almost every time I switch sources (especially HDMI sources). The sweep pattern looks fine on both. SJ
When you select unlocked, the iScan will maintain a constant output signal with fixed timing signals. The iScan output should be stable and consistent even when you switch from one source to another, or the current source is disconnected or turned off.

However, when you select locked, the iScan has to re-sync to each new source that you select beacuse in locked mode the output of the iScan is in sync with the timing of the input signal. Since your sources don't have their outputs synchronized with each other (unless you happen to live in a video studio ;)), the iScan has to re-lock its output to the different timings from each new source that you select. This re-locking process results in an unstable output from the iScan for a short period, and it's this that causes your display to have to resync to the (changing) iScan output signal.

The disadvantage of running in unlocked mode is that the the iScan will have to drop or add output frames because it no longer produces one output frame for every input frame/field. This can result in motion stutter as frames are dropped or repeated, with the frequency of this discontinuity depending on the difference between the input and output frame rates.

EDIT: <Changed 'locked' in previous paragraph to 'unlocked'.>

- Dale Adams

The frame rate conversion (FRC) hardware in the VP30 should be identical to that in the HD. However, I worked personally on the iScan HD but did not on the VP30. I've never actually looked at the FRC on the VP30, so I suppose it's possible there's an issue, but I don't know of any reason why there should be.

One key thing in your setup that's different is the projector. A CRT projector will perfectly show the frame rate coming out of the video processor. This is not necessarily the case for a digital projector. Most of them will buffer the signal in some way, and many digital displays perform some type of FRC. I don't know what's in your Sony projector, though, and I've never had the opportunity to use one.

With respect to the projector's reported frame rate from the VP30: The VP30 in 48 Hz locked mode should produce exactly 4 output frames for every input field. The exact output frame rate will depend on the frame rate of the source being input into the VP30. If that source is fast or slow, then the output will be proportionally fast or slow. 47.95 Hz is the correct nominal frequency number for a standard 60 Hz source (which is really 59.94 Hz).

What source are you using? The VP30 will not be able to lock the 48 Hz output to the original 24 Hz film rate if the input is not 480i. E.g., if you're using a 480p signal into the VP30, there's no guarantee that you get exactly 4 output frames for every 5 input frames.

Have you seen this effect on anything but the 2 movies you mentioned - i.e., has it repeated itself since then or have you seen it on anything else? Unfortunately, it sounds like the problem is not repeatable, which will make it very difficult to track down.

One more observation: My initial reaction to 40 minute interval between occurrences of the problem is that this is being caused by the projector. The hardware in the VP30 locks to the input signal and the output is derived solely from that rate. You might get some small stutters if the VP30 loses lock on the 3:2 cadence of the source, such as might happen with a bad edit, but nothing that would last more than a few frames. This should also be repeatable. My experience with FRC display problems is that a recurring problem at a fixed interval is usually the fault of the display. However, 40 minutes is a much larger period than I would expect if there were such a problem.

I'll check with the VP30 hardware designers to see if there might be anything different from the iScan HD.

- Dale Adams

Dale,

Thanks for the response. Being new to digitals I never even thought that the Sony was doing some FRC itself.

As for other movies, the only other time I noticed it was when I was playing around with "Finding Nemo". Opening scence as the two fish discuss the new "house". Again I noticed the stutter but went back and scene played fine. If this is the pj then this is truly a bummer. I guess theres no way of fixing that. It's just sooo random.

Thanks again Dale.

Andy

BTW, the wife won't let me bring the PJ anywhere, but if you all want to field test stuff on a Ruby just let me know. Especially if you ever work on the misalignment R, G, B shift discussed in the other thread. :)

Regarding the audio problem. The one I am having (motor boating on all inputs when presented with a DD signal) seems to be one of two predominant audio problems. I am not saying that the other (popping shrieking scratching) is not there since I have either bypassed the VP30 for audio, or have the sources delivering 2 channel stereo. I would like to get a tally on how many are experiencing (a) Motor boating, (b) popping shrieking etc.

I have been in email contact with Tim at DVDO and he indicates that he (I assume he speaks for DVDO) believes that the problem is Software related and that it will be fixed quickly. I have stopped worrying about the Audio issues for now as I have worked around them.

I have not connected any of my other equipment (2 DVD players, Roku HD1000, Sony Playstation, Villagetronics PC graphics card) to the VP30. I will do that next week. They are all running component outputs.

I believe ABT/DVDO it be a reputable company dedicated to their customers and demonstrated by their actions to date. I am not concerned about ultimate astisfaction. After all if they can not fix the problem they will have a very large problem.

I believe there is a basic tenent in law. I call it the "Toaster shall Toast" paradigm. I am not a lawyer. A case was once brought before a judge regarding a toaster that always burned the toast. The mfg said the unit was out of warranty. The customer said it always did that and many other toasters of the same model did so. The judge found in favor of the customer. He stated "A toaster shall make Toast." In efect he laid down the principle that a device must meet its intended function, otherwise it is defective and not subject to to a warranty period. The customer got a new toaster that properly worked. Perhaps this is just an urban myth, but it really should be the law.

With the HD+ If I input the HDNet test pattern at 720P it looked fine. If I input straight into my Samsung 1080P DLP at 720P it looks fine. When I input 720P into the VP30 the test pattern looks exactly the same as it did with the 1080i input/output bug. As if half the resolution is missing. Instead of seeing a circle it is very jagged. This is exactly how it looked with the 1080i bug. Use the HD+ or go straight into the Samsung at 720P with the HDNet test pattern and you have a smooth circle.

I tried this out just to see how it looked. The only PJ I have hooked up right now, that I could try it on easy is a Sharp Z2000. So, when I output 720p on the VP30 the test pattern looks fine, Which of course is what I would use with that PJ.

But when I output 1080i and input 720p from the HD tivo, the pattern does look like the pictures I saw posted regarding the 1080i bug. Keeping 720p all the way looks the best with that PJ.

I got a feeling that could vary from one type of device to another though, regarding whether or not everyone would have it.

I've never heard any type of audio issue of any kind, so far.

I believe there is a basic tenent in law. I call it the "Toaster shall Toast" paradigm. I am not a lawyer. A case was once brought before a judge regarding a toaster that always burned the toast. The mfg said the unit was out of warranty. The customer said it always did that and many other toasters of the same model did so. The judge found in favor of the customer. He stated "A toaster shall make Toast." In efect he laid down the principle that a device must meet its intended function, otherwise it is defective and not subject to to a warranty period. The customer got a new toaster that properly worked. Perhaps this is just an urban myth, but it really should be the law.

For what it's worth, it's called the "Implied Warranty of Merchantability." I'm not familiar with your toaster case (though it may exist), but the warranty of merchantability is not a common law but rather a statutory one. So the toaster case may have simply been applying that law or, perhaps, it predated the law. All of which is to say that it really IS the law!

Of course, this has nothing to do with DVDO -- it's just an FYI.

I knew it must have an "Official name".

My annoyance with Manufacturers only comes from one, maybe two. Philips, who makes the Pronto line of remotes and advertised a remote with features implied that they never implemented and basically discontinued the line. The device cost new over $1000. Their total disregard for the customer is shameful. I will never buy a Philips product, not even their light bulbs. The second is RokuLabs who make a good product that has a design flaw. The power supply in their unit coupled with the tight enclosure causes a high probability of failure within 18 months. The unit cost $399 new. It costs $75 to have them fix it (install new power supply of the same type and model). I do believe someone has started a suit in that specific case. Many are just replacing the PSU with a better DC to DC converter.

The world has changed. If a device is software based we sort of forgive its not working to specification and allow the manufacturer "time" to get it right. That is after significant money has been paid, and the product delivered and installed. We (the customer) then acts as part of the testing team at our expense. I was in the SW/IT industry for 47 years. I was on the team that developed the original GPS system. We did not get it right the first through Nth time (n being a reasonably small number). In that case everything was new and there were no standards, just design documents put out by each subsystem manufacturer. I am not proud of the way software developers/manufacturers get away with releasing product that is not to specification. I understand it, I am just not happy about it.

When you select unlocked, the iScan will maintain a constant output signal with fixed timing signals. The iScan output should be stable and consistent even when you switch from one source to another, or the current source is disconnected or turned off.

However, when you select locked, the iScan has to re-sync to each new source that you select beacuse in locked mode the output of the iScan is in sync with the timing of the input signal. Since your sources don't have their outputs synchronized with each other (unless you happen to live in a video studio ;)), the iScan has to re-lock its output to the different timings from each new source that you select. This re-locking process results in an unstable output from the iScan for a short period, and it's this that causes your display to have to resync to the (changing) iScan output signal.

The disadvantage of running in locked mode is that the the iScan will have to drop or add output frames because it no longer produces one output frame for every input frame/field. This can result in motion stutter as frames are dropped or repeated, with the frequency of this discontinuity depending on the difference between the input and output frame rates.

- Dale Adams

Thanks Dale for this clear answer. But, did you mean the disadvantage of running in unlocked mode? Otherwise, I don't see why I would ever run in locked mode.

Thanks Dale for this clear answer. But, did you mean the disadvantage of running in unlocked mode? Otherwise, I don't see why I would ever run in locked mode.
You're absolutely correct - I meant 'unlocked', not 'locked'. I've corrected the original post to reflect this.

- Dale Adams

You're absolutely correct - I meant 'unlocked', not 'locked'. I've corrected the original post to reflect this.

- Dale Adams

Thanks Dale for your post on this. I have one further "newbie" type of question on this as well. I live in PAL country, so most of my stuff comes in 50Hz flavour. I have absolutely no problems with stutter when running of 50 Hz set top boxes and the like, but note that the best results are obtained with the 50Hz unlocked mode. The info panel shows as 50Hz unlocked at 59.94Hz on the output when running these sources. I can't actually verify the actual output frame rate on my display as I'm running in 1:1 pixel mode to the panel and it just shows the input as 1280 x 768 (on DVI input).

Now, when I use a NTSC DVD, the input changes to 480 60Hz and I had to adjust the output 60Hz setting to 60Hz locked, not unlocked. Without doing this it tries to run at 24Hz framerate and judders badly. My display panel is quite happy running at either 50 or 60Hz and shows no judder on the vertical bar test pattern at either of these 2 frame rates. Switching between the above 2 sources is fairly rapid.

So, the question I have really is related to that odd 59.94Hz. This is believe is the factory default for the unlocked frame rate. Could you explain the significance of this number and is there an optimum that maybe display dependant - should you tweak it for (even) better results? (as sometimes some judder is noticible on program material)

Thanks for participating on this forum - really leads to having confidence in the future of the product and company.

Regards,

Phil.

Originally Posted by escon
So, the question I have really is related to that odd 59.94Hz. This is believe is the factory default for the unlocked frame rate. Could you explain the significance of this number and is there an optimum that maybe display dependant - should you tweak it for (even) better results? (as sometimes some judder is noticible on program material)

Escon,
If I am correct, you have a US Fuji that operates natively only on 60 Hz (NTSC) and when viewing 50 Hz sources you're display performs the necessary internal framerate conversion up to 60 Hz to reduce any judder.
To setup your NTSC display optimally thru the VP30 , follow the guidelines outlined on page 35.
50 Hz framerate unlocked at 59.94 and 60 Hz framerate locked at 60 Hz.
I believe that if you deviate away from these settings and add onto the frequency up or down, you will introduce unecessary judder as this forces the deletion or repeat of extra frames to the source video image !!! See explanation below :

As for the "odd 59.94 Hz" . NTSC television is broadcast at 29.97 frames per second not 30 .To display an image, each frame is split up into 2 fields of 29.97 odd fields and 29.97 even fields which are then interlaced to make up a scanlined image of 2 x 29.97 frames per second, hence 59.94 .
Also as a side note, as NTSC movies are shot at 24 frames per second and split up into 24 odd fields and 24 even fields (48 interlaced frames) , to be able to watch them on a NTSC TV (60 Hz) , a process called 3:2 pulldown (telecine) i.e. (3 Normal fields and two Artificial fields) is performed where an extra 5.97 even fields and 5.97 odd fields (11.94 frames) are added on to the 48 interlaced frames i.e. 48 + 11.94 = 59.94.
Have I lost you ?? Hope you follow ??

i'm amazed at how good dvd at 1080p looks coming from my vp. has anyone seen a native 1080p source? is it better? this is so good i would have to see it to believe something could display better.
i wonder if the technology is similar just coming into play at different points in the path from filming and encoding to the eye.

While I am waiting for the audio fix, I am continuing to explore the VP30. When ever my stystem starts up after a reload of control software, it initializes every device that needs such initialization to put it in a known state. The followig is sent to the VP30;

Power=On,A/D=Digital, format =720p-60, DisplayAR=16:9, ScreenAR=16:9, Output Colorspace=RGB, Output HDCP=On, Level=Video, Frame Rate = 60 Unlocked, AutoStandby=Off, UserMode=ADV ,Input HDCP=On, Input=HDMI1, Power OFF . When this is done the PJ is powered off.

When the theater powers up (basically turns on the PJ and selects the requested source chain) I send to the VP30 after the projector has powered up the following:
Power=On, Select Input device.

Audio inputs assigned to video inputs are factory defaults.

My problem is that in many instances but not all the VP30 end up with a blinking blue led, and a curtain over the picture. This indicates that the VP30 does not believe the projector has HDCP. That is not the case, unless the PJ is not fully powered up when I turn on the VP30. If I switch images it has a lot of trouble with ascertaining if the PJ is HDCP compliant, but it is.

I was wondering if it had anything to do with the output timing being locked to the input (Frame Rate=60Unlocked). This causes the VP30 to maintain fixed timings to the display and not alter them. Perhaps it is during the process of altering the timings that the HDCP state of the PJ is ascertained. I will try some tests later, but this is annoying. I know people have reported some parablems, with HDCP stat and recognition. Has any one pinned down this problem? With the timing unlocked if I power the VP30 on and off it eventually gains HDCP state properly. I sometimes have to switch inputs to make that happen hence my question re the frame rate being locked or un locked.

Thanks

barry,

my vp actually works pretty good. it did take me a while to appreciate this.
i get the flashing blue sometimes. i go ahead and play my show and the flashing stops. i do have audio problems, screeching, so i don't use vp for that. my receiver cost almost 4 grand. let it do its job. receiver could switch video, i use the vp instead. it works perfect for video. anyway try playing your dvd even when blue flash is there. mine does that sometimes but still it works very well. hmm.

I've played around in the menus but haven't been able to figure out how to do this. When I have a show that is in 16:9 format, but not formatted for widescreen (ie when NBC screws up :) ), how can I just zoom in the whole image?

change aspect on vp output display, screen and then zoom the projector

I have a framerate question:

After reading here, I looked at page 35 in the VP30 manual, and it says:


For displays that will only display 50Hz (PAL)

Output Setup ----> Framerate ----> 50Hz ----> 50Hz Lock

Output Setup ----> Framerate ----> 60Hz ----> Unlock ----> 49.95

I have the VP30 connected directly to an SD plasma panel, via an HDMI to DVI-D cable.

I live in PAL country, and am also quite sure, based on experience, that my panel is a 50Hz panel.

I also watch the occasional NTSC movie however.

Before, I used to get studder on NTSC material, because I had the Framerate set to 60Hz ----> Unlock ----> 50Hz, to "appease" my panel (since I was fairly certain it's 50Hz native).
Then for some reason, just to have tried 'everything', I decided to try and set it to 60Hz ----> 48Hz Lock.

-The result was perfectly smooth NTSC playback - no noticeable studder at all, and I was ecstatic that I'd found this out eventually.


Now as mentioned I read here to look at page 35 in the manual for framerate 'stuff', and so I did.

So I sat the Framerate according to the manual; 60Hz ---> Unlock ----> 49.95Hz. This resulted in very noticeable studder again.

Is this a typo in the manual? Or are there other circumstances (other panels/TVs) where 49.95Hz is the correct framerate for 60Hz material? And why exactly 49.95 and not 50?

I've used the NTSC version of the movie The Island to test on NTSC material, because in the beginning there are some large, epic pans across large landscapes, and studder is easily recognized there if it's present.


As for PAL material/sources, I can't see much of a difference on the judder test pattern between using 50Hz (or 49.95Hz), and using 60Hz (or 59.94Hz), but when I instead use the CNN horisontal ticker as a guide, I can see that 60 (59.95) Hz has noticeably more judder than 50Hz does. So I guess that confirms that my plasma panel is of the 50Hz variety(?).

only[/U] on 60 Hz (NTSC) and when viewing 50 Hz sources you're display performs the necessary internal framerate convertion up to 60 Hz to reduce any judder.
To setup your NTSC display optimally thru the VP30 , follow the guidelines outlined on page 35.
50 Hz framerate unlocked at 59.94 and 60 Hz framerate locked at 60 Hz.
I believe that if you deviate away from these settings and add onto the frequency up or down, you will introduce unecessary judder as this forces the deletion or repeat of extra frames to the source video image !!! See explanation below:

As for the "odd 59.94 Hz" . NTSC television is broadcast at 29.97 frames per second not 30 .To display an image, each frame is split up into 2 fields of 29.97 odd fields and 29.97 even fields which are then interlaced to make up a scanlined image of 2 x 29.97 frames per second, hence 59.94 .
Also as a side note, as NTSC movies are shot at 24 frames per second and split up into 24 odd fields and 24 even fields (48 interlaced frames) , to be able to watch them on a NTSC TV (60 Hz) , a process called 3:2 pulldown (telecine) i.e. (3 Normal fields and two Artificial fields) is performed where an extra 5.97 even fields and 5.97 odd fields (11.94 frames) are added on to the 48 interlaced frames i.e. 48 + 11.94 = 59.94.
Have I lost you ?? Hope you follow ??

Thanks for the reply Sparky66, I'd forgotten about the 29.97 frame rate. But, no, I have a Samsung 403T LCD panel - a complete equipment list of my gear under "Interests" in the DBA forum by clicking on my jpp alias and here of course by clicking on my escon alias. The panel does 50 and 60Hz without judder, so by locking it to 60HZ I get judder free motion. Maybe I should have a fiddle with locking it to 59.97Hz to see if that gets rid of that last little bit of judder in some material.

Phil.

I don't know if anyone has reported a problem with this particular combination. I have a SA8300HD that seems to loose HDCP synch with the VP30 periodically when bringing up the channel guide, and some times when changing channels. I put in a macro that powers the VP30 off, and then back on, which synch's it back up, since it happens often enough to need this.

Perhaps someone can help me with HDCP. Isn't that much more an issue with the display than the source? If The source (content) requires HDCP, then the Display better have it, and if the source (content) does not require HDCP it should not matter if the display does or does not have HDCP.

Once the VP30 sees that the display has HDCP, does it keep verifying that? Based on Hollywood paranoia I can see that being part of the spec.

Can some one explain to me why there are 2 HDCP controls on the VP30, one for the source and one for the display. In what cases would they both not be set to on.

I am having a similar problem with the VP30 losing recognition of the HDCP capability of the display (my wording of the problem), and I agree a power cycling of the VP30 fixes it. One of my sources is the SA8300HD.

In my case once I get it working (solid blue LED) it stays that way, and I can change sources with no issue. All my sources are HDMI at this point in my testing. None of my component sources are running through the VP30 yet, but directly to the PJ.

One of my questions is when do I power up the VP30? Clearly after the Projector is on so if it checks on HDCP compliance it can get the right answer. The problem is that when my PJ says it is on, is it really on, that is will it return its HDCP status? I guess I need to talk to BENQ on that one


Also does running with output timing locked or unblocked have any effect on the HDCP recognition. For example if unlocked, once the system puts a picture out to the PJ it should stay good with regard to HDCP independent of source changes. If Locked, then perhaps every time you change source you have an issue with HDCP recognition.

I just do not understand why the HDCP state of a source has anything to do with the VP30 blocking anything if the Display is HDCP compliant. If The Display is not HDCP compliant, then the VP30 must follow the rules regarding sources that are currently transmitting HDCP protected content.

What am I missing? I need some education on this.

Got the new DVI to HDMI cable in today, not one bit of difference on my color problems :(

-Gary

Not to be negative, but I'm sitting here in the finishing stages of my dedicated theater and the fourth or fifth largest equipment investment was the VP30. With all the posts and views regarding this device and I have not found much feedback to suggest that I spent my money well. Granted I don't have everything up and running yet, but most everyone else seems to be having problems with the unit. Is this just skewed unfairly. Is anyone having nice experiences with this unit. If so, I think many folks would love to hear some positive feedback regarding the VP30. Just my thoughts as I continue to watch the thread daily.

I've played around in the menus but haven't been able to figure out how to do this. When I have a show that is in 16:9 format, but not formatted for widescreen (ie when NBC screws up :) ), how can I just zoom in the whole image?


There are two settings that you need to change:
Input Asp.Ratio->Frame AR->4:3
Input Asp.Ratio->Active AR->1.78:1

You can also press the Input Aspect Ratio Memory button near the top of the remote until you have selected the 'Letterbox' preset.

Not to be negative, but I'm sitting here in the finishing stages of my dedicated theater and the fourth or fifth largest equipment investment was the VP30. With all the posts and views regarding this device and I have not found much feedback to suggest that I spent my money well. Granted I don't have everything up and running yet, but most everyone else seems to be having problems with the unit. Is this just skewed unfairly. Is anyone having nice experiences with this unit. If so, I think many folks would love to hear some positive feedback regarding the VP30. Just my thoughts as I continue to watch the thread daily.

I have complained about a few audio dropouts, and was very unhappy with the weak IR sender unit. But the IR problem is solved with the replacement part sent by DVDO, and my audio problems are not large. It does appear that the audio thing will be fixed soon by a software update (fingers crossed!).

But other than these two problems, I've loved the VP30. It does everything I've expected of it, and I have found a small but worthwhile inprovement for video over the HD+ with the added flexibility of the VP30..

Not to be negative, but I'm sitting here in the finishing stages of my dedicated theater and the fourth or fifth largest equipment investment was the VP30. With all the posts and views regarding this device and I have not found much feedback to suggest that I spent my money well. Granted I don't have everything up and running yet, but most everyone else seems to be having problems with the unit. Is this just skewed unfairly. Is anyone having nice experiences with this unit. If so, I think many folks would love to hear some positive feedback regarding the VP30. Just my thoughts as I continue to watch the thread daily.

I, too, have complained of some audio problems but not because I didn't like the Vp30 or DVDO. I think DVDO's presence on the forum makes it much easier to complain in public. I think the video portion of the VP30 is great and works as expected. I've had a great experience with DVDO w/ the iScan HD and I expect the same when some bugs are worked out. Given the companies track record I expect them to fix a lot of what is going on. FOR my setup and my situation once the audio portion is fixed I'll be happy.

I think once Dale confirms that the VP30's frame rate conversion is spot on other issues will be display based and not the VP30's. If it is the VP30 thats one thing I can guarantee Dale and DVDO can fix.

I think with a very public presence, responsiveness, great upgrade policy, AND very good equipment you can't go wrong with DVDO.

I'm very happy with the VP30 as well. It's connected to a SDI-DVDP and an HD-TiVo currently and I'm starting play around with a Moto Cable box and then probably a Dish 942. I'm not using any of the audio hookups.

Other than an occasional loss of HDCP between the VP30 and my display when I have been toying with input resolutions, it's been as advertised.

Ditto on the customer service, fantastic would be my word for it. :)

I was watching a couple of the CSI shows (in DD 5.1) and I'm now noticing a slight pop/click occasionally from my back surround speakers. I initially thought it was bad DD coding from the source provider, but with all of the audio comments about the VP30, I thought I would mention it. Source is a DISH 942 (HDMI/Video and optical audio) to the VP30. If it keeps it up, I will try going direct into my processor with the audio to see what happens. SJ

Watched a couple more CSIs with no issues.....

No problems over here.

Video for me is very good.

Audio is terrible and I can not use it. DVDO has indicated they believe it is a software problem. I get constant loud motorboating on any DD audio signal that goes through the VP30.

Lately I have been having a problem with HDCP sync when the system is first turned on. I have to "fiddle" with the VP30 to get the HDCP to be recognized and then it stays solidly locked on. The display is definately HDCP compliant.

This is a bit off topic from the VP30. I have the iScan HD+ scaler and using my scaling DVD player with DVI out and I was wondering if I would get a better picture/scaling if I used the DVD players component out and turned off the progressive and scaling (just let the iScan HD+ do the scaling)?

This is a bit off topic from the VP30. I have the iScan HD+ scaler and using my scaling DVD player with DVI out and I was wondering if I would get a better picture/scaling if I used the DVD players component out and turned off the progressive and scaling (just let the iScan HD+ do the scaling)?
Depends on the player, but if you can get a 480i signal out from the player to feed the HD+ you will probably have the best results.

I have a framerate question:

After reading here, I looked at page 35 in the VP30 manual, and it says:



I have the VP30 connected directly to an SD plasma panel, via an HDMI to DVI-D cable.

I live in PAL country, and am also quite sure, based on experience, that my panel is a 50Hz panel.

I also watch the occasional NTSC movie however.

Before, I used to get studder on NTSC material, because I had the Framerate set to 60Hz ----> Unlock ----> 50Hz, to "appease" my panel (since I was fairly certain it's 50Hz native).
Then for some reason, just to have tried 'everything', I decided to try and set it to 60Hz ----> 48Hz Lock.

-The result was perfectly smooth NTSC playback - no noticeable studder at all, and I was ecstatic that I'd found this out eventually.


Now as mentioned I read here to look at page 35 in the manual for framerate 'stuff', and so I did.

So I sat the Framerate according to the manual; 60Hz ---> Unlock ----> 49.95Hz. This resulted in very noticeable studder again.

Is this a typo in the manual? Or are there other circumstances (other panels/TVs) where 49.95Hz is the correct framerate for 60Hz material? And why exactly 49.95 and not 50?

I've used the NTSC version of the movie The Island to test on NTSC material, because in the beginning there are some large, epic pans across large landscapes, and studder is easily recognized there if it's present.


As for PAL material/sources, I can't see much of a difference on the judder test pattern between using 50Hz (or 49.95Hz), and using 60Hz (or 59.94Hz), but when I instead use the CNN horisontal ticker as a guide, I can see that 60 (59.95) Hz has noticeably more judder than 50Hz does. So I guess that confirms that my plasma panel is of the 50Hz variety(?).

I too live in PAL country and I still need to get my head fully around this frame rate business.

If you set the VP30 to "50Hz, unlocked at 59.94Hz" what does this really mean? If a source is basically 50Hz, then "unlocked" to me means that it follows the source frame rate. Now, I notice that on my display, if I the setting is set at 50Hz, unlocked 59.94Hz, it does actually seems to be putting out 59.94Hz. The only way I can tell, apart from just reading what is on the Info panel on the VP30, what it might be, is to note the time it takes for a few judder bar test patterns (vertical bar) to traverse across the screen. It does seem that the VP30 runs at 59.94Hz when unlocked to that rate, i.e the bar takes less time to traverse the screen than when I lock the rate to 50Hz. The info panel certainly tells me that the frame rate is 59.94Hz.

If that is the case, there is frame rate conversion taking place - from 50Hz to 59.94Hz. But, I don't notice any judder. Sources are a PAL SD STB and a HD STB running at 1080i. Both of course at 50Hz.

I have now locked 50Hz to 50Hz, and I'll see how that goes. It takes the VP30/display longer to switch between sources locking the frame rate - curious, although one source is at 1080i, the other at 576i. Leaving the frame rate unlocked, does give a quicker switch over time though - again strange seeing that nothing else has changed. I'll take particular note of vertical title scroll and horizontal crawlies which is where I see most of the judder that I come across.

If anyone has had a real play with frame rate settings using various sources, I'd be curious to hear what they've found. I'm curious why for example you would have a setting of 60Hz unlocked at 49.95Hz.

Unless of course, unlock really means "convert to". Explains some of the behaviour... why the longer switchover times ... maybe display really likes 60Hz better? Any further thoughts anyone? I read somewhere in an earlier post by Dale, that the preferred setting was unlocked as then the output frame rate would follow the input. I'm confused.

Phil.

Perhaps someone can help me with HDCP. Isn't that much more an issue with the display than the source? If The source (content) requires HDCP, then the Display better have it, and if the source (content) does not require HDCP it should not matter if the display does or does not have HDCP.

Once the VP30 sees that the display has HDCP, does it keep verifying that? Based on Hollywood paranoia I can see that being part of the spec.

Can some one explain to me why there are 2 HDCP controls on the VP30, one for the source and one for the display. In what cases would they both not be set to on.

In my case once I get it working (solid blue LED) it stays that way, and I can change sources with no issue. All my sources are HDMI at this point in my testing. None of my component sources are running through the VP30 yet, but directly to the PJ.

I just do not understand why the HDCP state of a source has anything to do with the VP30 blocking anything if the Display is HDCP compliant. If The Display is not HDCP compliant, then the VP30 must follow the rules regarding sources that are currently transmitting HDCP protected content.

What am I missing? I need some education on this.

Hi Barry, and so do I. My display is non-HDCP compliant, but none of my sources are HDCP enabled/capable. Naturally, I have set all HDCP selections on both inputs and output OFF, but noted while I had them ON on any of the inputs (default setting), that it would take quite a while for the VP30 to decide that I had a kosher setup. Like you, I'd like to understand why we need an HDCP setting on the inputs.

Phil.

Re: Phil, framerate

From Dales posts my understanding is that Unlock xHz means that no mater what framerate the source(s) are outputting the VP30 will only output x fps, so it has to convert the input and if there are variances frames may be dropped.

For Locked xHz it means that the VP30 will 'lock' to the SOURCE framerate to avoid frame drops if the source(s) have any variances so the output will vary based on the input (i.e. locked 60Hz is actually just 2 * input, locked 48Hz is actually 2 * input minus 3:2 thingy).

So if your display can cope with a non constant framerate input (I guess CRT will be better at this) then locked is best but if your sources produce variance and your display prefers a constant rate then Unlocked is best for you.

Re: Phil & Barry, HDCP

I believe the input HDCP switch is there as a helper for some devices which will ask the display if it is HDCP compliant, if they return NO then the source device will disable HDCP hence allowing you to use the VP30 HDMI output for non HDCP DVI displays or use the VP30 analogue outputs.

My guess is that some older DVI HDCP equipped sources may do this but probably not any HDMI based ones (as HDCP is more mandatory on that interface).

As too HDCP display recognition I think this has a lot to do with the state of the display when the VP30 is switched on. You may need to wait for the PJ to warm up/finish it's self checks before it's ready to negotiate HDCP. Also if the display starts up with an input other then the DVI/HDMI selected it may not be listening for HDCP handshakes. It's a bit of a dodgy area that I'm not sure is actually standardised fully in the HDCP specs, certainly I remember that the Denon A11/5900 used to forget to renegotiate with some PJs if you changed input for 30sec or so, was fixed in a firmware update.

These are just my understandings from the 72 pages of this thread so don't take em as fact. :rolleyes:

Re: Phil, framerate

From Dales posts my understanding is that Unlock xHz means that no mater what framerate the source(s) are outputting the VP30 will only output x fps, so it has to convert the input and if there are variances frames may be dropped.

For Locked xHz it means that the VP30 will 'lock' to the SOURCE framerate to avoid frame drops if the source(s) have any variances so the output will vary based on the input (i.e. locked 60Hz is actually just 2 * input, locked 48Hz is actually 2 * input minus 3:2 thingy).

So if your display can cope with a non constant framerate input (I guess CRT will be better at this) then locked is best but if your sources produce variance and your display prefers a constant rate then Unlocked is best for you.



Thanks Ailean.

Yes, as I discovered tonight, locking the output to 50Hz has completely removed the slight vertical judder that I had on title scrolling. It's I suppose a tribute to the VP30's frame rate conversion that I hadn't really picked up on this before - always thought that it was an artifact of digital televison. I guess I always saw it on display sets in the stores and assumed that that was how it was supposed to be. Obviously, I was watching 60Hz display panels. The default setting for the VP30 frame rate at 50Hz is 50Hz unlocked at 59.94Hz. But, as mine can do both 50 and 60Hz native, I have the option of not having to do any frame rate conversion. :) :)

Another way to "label" the 50 or 60Hz input frame rates on the menus, is I suppose to call them "input" frame rates. The input frame rate could be exactly 50Hz or maybe 49.95 or something else. The 50 and 60Hz labels just really refer to the nominal frame rate of the input source.

Phil.

Wow DVDO was fast with my trade in credit! They received my HD+ yesterday afternoon. That evening they sent me an email saying that my AMEX had been credited $1K.
This morning my AMEX has a $1K credit. THANKS!

Thanks Ailean.
But, as mine can do both 50 and 60Hz native, I have the option of not having to do any frame rate conversion. :) :)
Phil.

Slightly OT, just noticed you're managing 60 & 50 Hz at native res on a LCD (Samy 403T I think). I'm looking for one in the 32-37" range that can do the same but AVS being mostly non-PAL bods and most manuals only mentioning timings for 60Hz it somewhat tricky to track any down. The UK forums don't tend to be as technical as AVS or at least the only talk of native driving is for PCs and they're happy to get 60Hz and use software FRC.

Was wondering if there's any down-under forums/websites where folks have tested panels for 50/60hz native ability?

At the moment I'm hanging back for more UK 1080p displays/tvs in the hope that some of them may support native 1080p@24,25,48,50,60 type inputs. :rolleyes:

Since there seems to be quite a bit of confusion as to setting up the output frame rate on the VP30, I thought I'd provide a more detailed explanation of just what the various output frame rate options do, as well as a few clarifications:


1) First of all, note that there are separate settings for 60 Hz sources and 50 Hz sources. This allows you, for instance, to configure the VP30's output to behave differently with NTSC and PAL sources. One potential advantage of this is that if you have a display which only works at a single frame rate - say, 60 Hz - that you can have the VP30 run in locked mode (see below) for 60 Hz sources but convert all 50 Hz sources to the 60 Hz frame rate the display needs.


2) Locked mode (1:1). This means that the VP30's output frame rate tracks the input rate - i.e., the output rate is locked to the input rate. In the 1:1 mode - i.e., 60 Hz source-locked to 60 Hz, and 50 Hz source-locked to 50 Hz - there is always exactly one output frame for every input frame/field. This mode has the advantage that there are never any dropped or repeated frames (unless the source itself does this). One disadvantage of this mode is that when the video source is changed, the iScan has to re-lock to the new input signal timing. This causes a disruption in the VP30's output signal while the locking process occurs, and can cause many displays to loose sync to the VP30's signal and temporarily blank.


3) Unlocked mode. This means that the VP30's output frame rate is independent of the input rate. Regardless of any variations in the input, the output frame rate will be fixed at the specified value. This mode results in the most stable output signal as it's independent of any changes in the input signal. Unlike the locked mode(s), the VP30's output signal timing will not be disrupted when the input source is changed. However, it's guaranteed to cause dropped or repeated frames as the input and output frame rates are not the same. Note that regardless of what number the unlocked output frame rate is set to, it will never be identical to the input rate in this mode as the output signal timing is independent of the input timing. These dropped/repeated frames can result in visible irregularities in smooth motion, sometimes called motion judder or stutter.


4) Locked mode (2:2 or 3:3). For standard definition interlaced sources the VP30 can detect 2:2 and 3:2 pulldown cadences and convert these to either a 2:2 or 3:3 frame repetition rate. The main advantage of this is for 60 Hz sources using 3:2 pulldown, as the irregular 3:2 pattern can be converted to 2:2 at 48 Hz or 3:3 at 72 Hz. In these modes, each original film frame is repeated exactly 2 or 3 times, respectively, and motion is therefore smoother. Note that these modes are only useful when the video source is film-based - i.e., 3:2 pulldown for 24 Hz film on 60 Hz sources, and 2:2 pulldown for 25 Hz film on 50 Hz sources. If the source is not film-based, then the end result is a lot like unlocked mode without that mode's stability advantages.


5) Motion-judder test pattern. The VP30 has a built-in test pattern generator to help you determine which frame rates your display supports. This is the test pattern with the vertical bar which pans horizontally back and forth across the screen. Note that this test pattern is used to determine the capabilities of your display, and does not provide any indication of motion smoothness (or lack thereof) in the iScan's output. The test pattern is used with the unlocked output mode of the VP30. You set the (unlocked) output frame rate to be the one you're testing your display for, and observe if the back and forth panning motion of the test pattern is smooth or if it jerks or stutters. If the former, then the display supports that particular resolution and frame rate without performing any frame rate conversion of its own; if the latter, then the display is performing frame rate conversion on the signal.


6) Examples. These configuration options provide a lot of flexibility to deal with differing source and display characteristics. Let's look at a few examples:

a) The display only supports 60 Hz input. In this case, the VP30 must produce a (nominal) 60 Hz output. For 60 Hz sources you can run in either 1:1 source-locked mode, or in unlocked mode with the output frame rate set to approximately 60 Hz. You might choose unlocked mode if the display takes a long time to re-sync to new inputs and you channel-surf a lot. Locked mode will provide the smoothest motion and guarantee no dropped or repeated frames. For 50 Hz sources, you'd set the VP30's output to unlocked with a (nominal) 60 Hz frame rate. This will result in some motion irregularities as the VP30 periodically repeats frames to convert the 50 Hz input to the 60 Hz output rate, but since the display only supports 60 Hz inputs there's not much you can do.

b) The display only supports 50 Hz input. This is the opposite of case A, and the required configuration is also the opposite - i.e., the output frame rate for 60 Hz source should be set to 50 Hz unlocked, and the rate for 50 Hz sources can be set to either 1:1 locked or unlocked at 50 Hz (for all the same reasons noted in the first example).

c) The display supports a wide range of frame rates (e.g., a CRT projector). In this case you can configure things most any way you like. If motion judder with 3:2 pulldown bothers you, then use the VP30's 48 Hz or 72 Hz source-locked output options for film-based 480i sources. If not, then 60 Hz locked is a good choice. For 50 Hz sources, unless you notice display flicker at 50 Hz, you'd probably want to run at 50 Hz locked to avoid repeated/dropped frames.

d) A digital display supports a narrow range of frame rates, either around 50 Hz or 72/75 Hz. If the display supports both 50 Hz and 48 Hz, and the primary use of 60 Hz source is film-based material, then you would likely want to configure the VP30 as 48 Hz source-locked for 60 Hz sources, and 50 Hz locked (or unlocked, if desired) for 50 Hz sources. If the higher frame rate (72/75) is desired or required, then both source types can be configured for the 3:3 source-locked output option. For non-film material you may find that there's too much motion stutter, although that tends to be a very personal thing as not everyone perceives this the same way (as with low frame rate display flicker).


- Dale Adams

Not to be negative, but I'm sitting here in the finishing stages of my dedicated theater and the fourth or fifth largest equipment investment was the VP30. With all the posts and views regarding this device and I have not found much feedback to suggest that I spent my money well. Granted I don't have everything up and running yet, but most everyone else seems to be having problems with the unit. Is this just skewed unfairly. Is anyone having nice experiences with this unit. If so, I think many folks would love to hear some positive feedback regarding the VP30. Just my thoughts as I continue to watch the thread daily.

Keep in mind that the purpose of threads like this is for people to troubleshoot problems they are having. Therefore, people who don't have problems don't post as often, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Just wanted to say that I got the replacement IR lens from DVDO and installed it myself. It was a pretty straightforward procedure, though removing the front grill took a little more force than implied in the instructions (I found that inserting the handle of my screwdriver and gently using it as a lever helped pry it off).

The new lens has definitely extended the range of my remote. However, it does seem that I still need to point the remote directly at the VP30. Anything slightly off-axis doesn't get picked up. The other components in my rack are more forgiving in this respect.

Dale, Thanks for the detailed explanation.

One of the reasons I bought the VP30 was to get a nice smooth transition when I switched sources. I do get that in unlocked mode. The transition I am really longing for is a close curtain, followed by on open curtain when all has calmed down and the image is stable. I believe that is impossible to do since the VP30 would not know when the PJ has synced to the new output timing. Maybe someday the HDMI interface will provide that info.

Dale, could you possibly provide a similar definitive statement on HDCP as it applies to the source and the output? I do not believe I have any content that is HDCP encoded, and am interested in why I can't just say "OFF" to the input HDCP source option and always have the LED a solid blue indicating a good signal. My PJ is HDCP compliant, but I believe as someone pointed out that the problem may be "when is the PJ ready to tell the HDMI connection that it is". I guess I will have to play with that. Any suggestions on the issue of always getting the VP30 to know that the PJ is HDCP compliant would be appreciated.

I do not believe I have any content that is HDCP encoded, and am interested in why I can't just say "OFF" to the input HDCP source option and always have the LED a solid blue indicating a good signal.

Hi Barry,
If this is definitely the case (none of your sources doing/expecting HDCP) then you maybe better off setting your inputs and output to No HDCP. The only reason you will ever need to talk HDCP to any display is if one of the sources on the VP30 is talking HDCP, otherwise it's just an added complication (and the only reason DVDO have to do this is legal ;) ).

It may even improve performance as I assume HDCP takes up processing time (especially if the source HDCP encrypts, the VP30 decrypts, scales, encrypts again and the display has to decrypt).

This certainly worked for me unless I used the DVI output of my Denon A11/5900 (the only HDCP input I have and it can't be disabled AFAIK).

ailean, Re HDCP

If the VP30 operated as you state or as I understand what you said, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of HDCP. If I can say OFF to the input HDCP parameter and the VP30 will then allow the HDMI signal to go through to the HDMI output (to the display) as if the content were not protected wouldn't that defeat the purpose of HDCP?

My understanding (independent of the VP30) was/is:

(a) If the display (or current output device) was HDCP compliant then independent of whether the source had content to be protected, it could always be passed to the display. Unprotected content should always be allowed to go where it wants!. Protected content only to HDCP compliant devices.

(b) If the display or current output device was NOT HDCP compliant, then if the source was sending content that was to be protected, then the display (output device) could not receive it/show it/ do whatever. However if the source was sending content that did not require protection, then the display could always receive it/show it/do whatever.

What is it I am missing? I guess I have to read the HDCP and HDMI specs.

aileen and others re HDCP.

I have 4 devices that I am playing with on my HDMI inputs. Two of them are DirecTV HR10-250 DVR's, one is a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR (evaluating cable vs Satellite), and one is a graphics card made by Villagetronics. I am not currently playing with the Villagetronics graphics card. The villagtronics actually has a DVI output, and the others HDMI. I do not believe any of these sources are sending material that needs content protection at this time. I also believe that all of the HDMI interfaces (I am not sure of the Villagetronics DVI interface) are HDCP compliant.

Does any one know for a fact if what I have stated above is correct?

Thanks

If you are using the HDMI output on the SA8300HD, it very definitely requires an HDCP-capable display.

Re: HDCP

It is a confusing topic Barry. ;)

What I understand is that you have two potential source situations;

1) The source isn't using HDCP encryption: Component, SVid, Composite, RGBs, DVI/HDMI without HDCP enabled.

2) The source is using HDCP encryption: DVI/HDMI with HDCP enabled.

You also have two potential display situations;

1) The display isn't capable of HDCP decryption: Component, RGBHV, DVI without HDCP support.

2) The display is capable of HDCP decryption: DVI (HDCP), HDMI.


Now when using the VP30 if the source is type (1) then you can use display type (1) or (2) but if the source is type (2) then you can only use display type (2).

What the VP30 is doing with a HDCP enabled input (this can be on a per TV show basis on Cable/Sat, it's just a flag in the transmission) is decrypting the digital signal from the source, then doing all the scaling and other fun stuff, then encrypting it again to send to your HDCP display.

When this happens the VP30 automatically curtains the RGBHV analogue output and also the HDMI output if you have it set to NO HDCP. The reason it does this is just to comply to the legal issues around HDCP.

But if your sources don't insist on talking over HDCP then by setting the inputs to No HDCP they shouldn't force the VP30 to curtain it's non protected outputs and by setting the VP30 output to No HDCP you shouldn't have any issues with negotiating the handshake when powering everything up.

If you find that in this setup you can't get a picture from one of the HDMI sources then it probably means the source is refusing to talk over a non HDCP connection and if the source has no setting to change this then you'll be forced to go back to Yes HDCP on that input and your Output to get a picture or revert to a Component input.

Hope that helps, I'm not sure I haven't just confused myself more while writing this post. :confused:

I know the cable box you mention can do HDCP but I believe it depends on your cable company, channel and the firmware they've sent to it as to how it behaves. There were complaints about one provider/channel who'd mistakenly left the HDCP On flag enabled all the time which on the firmware on these boxes at the time also disabled the coax/opti sound outputs and component too. Several phone calls from upset customers weeks/months later it was sorted.

Since there seems to be quite a bit of confusion as to setting up the output frame rate on the VP30, I thought I'd provide a more detailed explanation of just what the various output frame rate options do, as well as a few clarifications:



Informative post, I printed it out and put it with my VP30 manual, thanks. :)

Informative post, I printed it out and put it with my VP30 manual, thanks. :)
Great post. I have printed it as well. You should post this on your web site under the FAQs. The manual is pretty good, but it does lack this kind of detail for those of us non-experts trying to do their own setup. The manual could use some more detail on the implications of some settings, and how you can decide on what is best for your setup. Maybe in a technical appendix so it doesn't overwhelm the main instructions.

Re: HDCP

I know the cable box you mention can do HDCP but I believe it depends on your cable company, channel and the firmware they've sent to it as to how it behaves. There were complaints about one provider/channel who'd mistakenly left the HDCP On flag enabled all the time which on the firmware on these boxes at the time also disabled the coax/opti sound outputs and component too. Several phone calls from upset customers weeks/months later it was sorted.

I found that by pressing the INFO button on the VP30, it will tell you whether the source is HDCP.

Thanks for the indepth explanation re: framerates, Dale. I'll most likely print it out myself, for future reference (it tends to get all blended together and distorted in my head if I try to remember it...).

aileen and others re HDCP.

I have 4 devices that I am playing with on my HDMI inputs. Two of them are DirecTV HR10-250 DVR's, one is a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR (evaluating cable vs Satellite), and one is a graphics card made by Villagetronics. I am not currently playing with the Villagetronics graphics card. The villagtronics actually has a DVI output, and the others HDMI. I do not believe any of these sources are sending material that needs content protection at this time. I also believe that all of the HDMI interfaces (I am not sure of the Villagetronics DVI interface) are HDCP compliant.

Does any one know for a fact if what I have stated above is correct?

Thanks

Barry,

I've so far found that all HDMI equiped devices appear to have HDCP enabled, even if they are only transmitting SD material. Nobody appears to bother to switch off HDCP when is not legally required to have it ON. So, for practical purposes, if you use an HDMI connection, assume it has HDCP enabled.

Phil.

I agree with you. The tip I got from aileen that the VP20 info screen indicates whether HDCP is oeprating is handy.

Just what I love about the FCC. They ought to fine any source provider that leaves the HDCP flag on when the content is not proteceted.

I just received my replacement HR10-250 DVR (the one they replaced had a bad HDMI daughter card). I now have all my DVR's running through HDMI video with audio bypassed and wired directly to the Audio processor (Lexicon MC-1). I also have my component devices all wired in so I am making good progress. As soon as the new firmware which i understand adresses the HDCP startup and the audio issues is available I will be set (I hope).

Slightly OT, just noticed you're managing 60 & 50 Hz at native res on a LCD (Samy 403T I think). I'm looking for one in the 32-37" range that can do the same but AVS being mostly non-PAL bods and most manuals only mentioning timings for 60Hz it somewhat tricky to track any down. The UK forums don't tend to be as technical as AVS or at least the only talk of native driving is for PCs and they're happy to get 60Hz and use software FRC.

Was wondering if there's any down-under forums/websites where folks have tested panels for 50/60hz native ability?

At the moment I'm hanging back for more UK 1080p displays/tvs in the hope that some of them may support native 1080p@24,25,48,50,60 type inputs. :rolleyes:

Ailean,

No, I've not come across any other Forums yet that discuss the 37 and sub 37 inch LCD panel products. Here in Ozland, the 32 in LCD market is beginning to boom - I guess the price point and size suits a lot of people that just really want to replace their 26-28 in telly. But, I have noticed that they too, are becoming only HDMI entertainment focused and have dropped DVI altogether, i.e they have dropped the PC connection and are no longer able to sync natively to a range of frame rates. Some still offer VGA D-sub 15 pin connection, but only at a limited number of resolutions and only at 60Hz.

The Samsung 403T is now obsolete. The new model has true 16:9 pixel ratio of 1366 x 768 - the 403T had 1280 x 768. Otherwise it's still the same as far as I can tell. But, it's 40 inch, not 37. And this new model still does not support 1080p. :(

I've also found by the way, that many models of well known brands are country specific, so a rave review about a model/brand xyz here or outside the UK maybe of little use. It's not exactly a product that you would want to ship back to the country of origin should you have to have it repaired!

If you've not already discovered it, here is the link to our Aussie DBA Forum:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?act=idx

Phil.

The frame rate conversion (FRC) hardware in the VP30 should be identical to that in the HD. However, I worked personally on the iScan HD but did not on the VP30. I've never actually looked at the FRC on the VP30, so I suppose it's possible there's an issue, but I don't know of any reason why there should be.
...
One more observation: My initial reaction to 40 minute interval between occurrences of the problem is that this is being caused by the projector. The hardware in the VP30 locks to the input signal and the output is derived solely from that rate. You might get some small stutters if the VP30 loses lock on the 3:2 cadence of the source, such as might happen with a bad edit, but nothing that would last more than a few frames. This should also be repeatable. My experience with FRC display problems is that a recurring problem at a fixed interval is usually the fault of the display. However, 40 minutes is a much larger period than I would expect if there were such a problem.

I'll check with the VP30 hardware designers to see if there might be anything different from the iScan HD.

- Dale Adams

Hi Dale,

Just wanted to confirm the issue that AndyN reported about 48Hz mode stuttering. I've discussed the issue with Tim @ DVDO and Tim said he would be looking into it.

Here's what I've found while watching several movies through the VP30 and several through the HD+ both connected to the Sony VPL-VW100 (Ruby) and with the same SDI input from a SDI modded Denon 3910:

With the VP30, I noticed the 48Hz mode occasionally switching to what looks like to my eyes could be a 3:1 output instead of the normally smooth 2:2 output. It is very obvious when this stuttering happens. This occurred maybe 1-3 times during most of the movies I watched, but on one movie (Serenity) it happened so often that I had to switch to 60Hz mode. Unfortunately, it does not occur consistently -- i.e., playing the same segment again might or might not reproduce the stuttering effect.
With the HD+ (which I'm currently using since I've sent the VP30 back to hopefully get this and several other issues fixed), I have not noticed any stuttering at all. Again, this is with the same input and output devices -- only the HD+ was used instead of the VP30.

FYI, I also confirmed the stuttering happens when using the 480i YPbPr output from the 3910 to the VP30.

I really hope this issue can be worked out as I like many of the new features of the VP30 and would prefer to keep it. If there's anything I can do to help track this down, please let me know.

Thanks,
Kevin

Guys I have asked this before and didn't get a answer, this is a pretty high end scaler, other comparable products have Hue/Sat controls for Red/Blue/Green for each input device

this would be a major improvement on the VP30, devices sometimes don't put out the correct colors and to be able to correct this would be a major convenience, not to mention if you TV has never had it's color decoder properly adjusted

maybe a output color adjustment to correct your display errors and then a adjustment for each input

I would be willing to start a petition and take up a 5$ donation from each signature, we can in turn give that to DVDO for this much needed feature via a software update

this is something needed very bad on this scaler that will benefit 100% of users

-Gary

Since there seems to be quite a bit of confusion as to setting up the output frame rate on the VP30, I thought I'd provide a more detailed explanation of just what the various output frame rate options do, as well as a few clarifications:

- Dale Adams

Thanks Dale, that explains the slow switching times between sources when you have the frame rate locked.

Just wondering here... might try unlocking my 50Hz sources to 49.95Hz. That way we should get a faster switch over time and still not be doing any/or very little frame conversion. I guess I should expect the odd frame dropped now and again and this might be too heavy a price to pay/ be more disturbing than 50 to 60Hz FRC and all for just gaining a faster switch over time.

Phil.

Thanks Dale, that explains the slow switching times between sources when you have the frame rate locked.

Just wondering here... might try unlocking my 50Hz sources to 49.95Hz. That way we should get a faster switch over time and still not be doing any/or very little frame conversion. I guess I should expect the odd frame dropped now and again and this might be too heavy a price to pay/ be more disturbing than 50 to 60Hz FRC and all for just gaining a faster switch over time.
I'd suggest unlocking to 50 Hz instead. There's no real reason to use 49.95 Hz as I believe that's a error in the VP30 user manual. The closer you set the output frame rate to the input, the less often you will see dropped or repeated frames.

- Dale Adams

Just wanted to confirm the issue that AndyN reported about 48Hz mode stuttering. I've discussed the issue with Tim @ DVDO and Tim said he would be looking into it.

Here's what I've found while watching several movies through the VP30 and several through the HD+ both connected to the Sony VPL-VW100 (Ruby) and with the same SDI input from a SDI modded Denon 3910:

With the VP30, I noticed the 48Hz mode occasionally switching to what looks like to my eyes could be a 3:1 output instead of the normally smooth 2:2 output. It is very obvious when this stuttering happens. This occurred maybe 1-3 times during most of the movies I watched, but on one movie (Serenity) it happened so often that I had to switch to 60Hz mode. Unfortunately, it does not occur consistently -- i.e., playing the same segment again might or might not reproduce the stuttering effect.
With the HD+ (which I'm currently using since I've sent the VP30 back to hopefully get this and several other issues fixed), I have not noticed any stuttering at all. Again, this is with the same input and output devices -- only the HD+ was used instead of the VP30.

FYI, I also confirmed the stuttering happens when using the 480i YPbPr output from the 3910 to the VP30.

I really hope this issue can be worked out as I like many of the new features of the VP30 and would prefer to keep it. If there's anything I can do to help track this down, please let me know.
Thanks for the detailed report. Since you have been able to swap out the VP30 in your system with the HD+ and no longer see the problem, it pretty much points the finger at the VP30.

I'll try using Serenity as a problem source as it appeared to be the worst case source material for you. If you do happen to see the problem occur on the HD+, please let us know. Now, if only I had a Ruby to test the VP30 with . . . . :D

- Dale Adams

Hi Dale,

Just wanted to confirm the issue that AndyN reported about 48Hz mode stuttering. I've discussed the issue with Tim @ DVDO and Tim said he would be looking into it.

Here's what I've found while watching several movies through the VP30 and several through the HD+ both connected to the Sony VPL-VW100 (Ruby) and with the same SDI input from a SDI modded Denon 3910:

With the VP30, I noticed the 48Hz mode occasionally switching to what looks like to my eyes could be a 3:1 output instead of the normally smooth 2:2 output. It is very obvious when this stuttering happens. This occurred maybe 1-3 times during most of the movies I watched, but on one movie (Serenity) it happened so often that I had to switch to 60Hz mode. Unfortunately, it does not occur consistently -- i.e., playing the same segment again might or might not reproduce the stuttering effect.
With the HD+ (which I'm currently using since I've sent the VP30 back to hopefully get this and several other issues fixed), I have not noticed any stuttering at all. Again, this is with the same input and output devices -- only the HD+ was used instead of the VP30.

FYI, I also confirmed the stuttering happens when using the 480i YPbPr output from the 3910 to the VP30.

I really hope this issue can be worked out as I like many of the new features of the VP30 and would prefer to keep it. If there's anything I can do to help track this down, please let me know.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin,

You da man. I was hoping to find an HD to try it with the Ruby but I think you just confirmed this occurrence for me. Thank you. I'm sure Dale will be able to fix this.

Andy

Thanks for the positive feedback. I suspected that the unit was performing well for many given the sheer number of views this thread generates. As for DVDO's support and everyone's high praise of DVDO's support, I expect to be very pleased with the VP30 as it matures with updates.

I am having very bad experiences with the HDMI connectors on the HR10-250 DirecTV DVR (I will post this on that forum also) wiggle the connector at the back of the unit and anything from bad color, to lost audio can result. I have tried several cables and see the same thing.

Is any one with that unit seeing the same issue?

I've never wiggled the cable on my HDTiVos. I just connected the cable and don't touch it.

HDMI as a cable connection simply sucks, there's really no two ways about it, it's a piss-poor connection interface.

I am having very bad experiences with the HDMI connectors on the HR10-250 DirecTV DVR (I will post this on that forum also) wiggle the connector at the back of the unit and anything from bad color, to lost audio can result. I have tried several cables and see the same thing.

Is any one with that unit seeing the same issue?

Yes, FWIW it's a shame the HDMI connector has sort of taken off. Would have been much better IMHO if manufacturers had stuck to the DVI connector and added digital audio using the mostly unused analog lines. The HDMI connector is a "consumer" type of connector, with no positive locking mechanism at all - at least I've not seen any that do. Using the dual channel capability of DVI (DVI-I with all 29 pins connected through; 24 lines for dual channel plus the remaining 5 for digital audio) I think we would have come close to the purported maximum data rates that HDMI says it will handle.

Phil.

Zektor has switchers that pass digital audio on the DVI cables, they say it is easily doable, I do not like the HDMI connector either, I prefer a locking connector like a BNC or DVI

HDMI cables and their ports(and all these new bulky adapters) are too easy broken and damaged or shorted out from grounding issues

-Gary

Greetings from a forum newbie with an HDMI-related audio question. According to the DVDO website, audio from an HDCP source that is inputted to the iScan VP30 via an HDMI connection cannot be outputted to a receiver via a digital coax or optical output. However, on an earlier thread in the forum someone seemed to indicate they were able to make that work - possibly by a system reset? Has anyone else had experience or success/failure with this?

On another note, is anyone else outputting from the VP30 to a Panasonic 50PHD8UK plasma via an HDMI connection? If so, any recommendations on output specs, in terms of format, framerate, color space, any advanced adjustments, etc.? I've been fiddling for a few days and can't quite get it to my, nor the test patterns', liking.

Many thanks for all the incredibly useful and interesting information on this thread - I hope to be able to contribute in turn.

--Erick

I have the same question as ENNYC.

First question is if the Pannys can accept native resolution through HDMI or Component...

Second question is if the VP30 can output EXACTLY 1365/6 by 768.

I am certain ANY scaler is better than the internal Panny scalers, they are horrible and if the VP30 can do pixel to pixel scaling and bypass the internal Panny scaler, then I think I am a buyer.

It is my understanding and verified partially that all audio that comes in through HDMI is available at the HDMI output and the two digital ouputs (Toslink and Coaxial) . I have not been able to verify the Coaxial output (I may have a bad cable, but the optical is there. There is an audio bug that is being worked on by DVDO having to do with HDMI input and noise (motor boating, popping, screeching).

My understanding is that all audio that comes in through any of the input opticals (audio1-2) or Coaxials (Audio 3-4) are also available to the digital outputs. I believe the analog stero is also available there as a a pcm stream but am not sure.

I have also noted that on some consumer gear, in particular the DirecTV HR10-250 DVR, the HDMIconnector is of very poor quality. It can be badly inserted, and if moved around you can loose the audio, the color, sync, etc.

Here's what I've found while watching several movies through the VP30 and several through the HD+ both connected to the Sony VPL-VW100 (Ruby) and with the same SDI input from a SDI modded Denon 3910:
[list]
With the VP30, I noticed the 48Hz mode occasionally switching to what looks like to my eyes could be a 3:1 output instead of the normally smooth 2:2 output. It is very obvious when this stuttering happens. This occurred maybe 1-3 times during most of the movies I watched, but on one movie (Serenity) it happened so often that I had to switch to 60Hz mode. Unfortunately, it does not occur consistently -- i.e., playing the same segment again might or might not reproduce the stuttering effect.

I can second these results using 48hz. I have seen much the same problem. A movie will play well for a while, but it seems that if it ever hits a bad edit the entire picture starts stuttering and will not recover unless I pause and restart the movie. Backtracking and replaying the scene may or may not reproduce the problem.

This happens on average 2-3 times a movie, and I've found it to be more hassle than it's worth so I've returned to 60hz.

Anyone here used the international upgrade program?

I have, but I'm just wondering if - when you send the old unit back - if it's enough that the local distributor receives it and reports back to DVDO, or do the distributor have to send the unit back to DVDO, in order for the credit to be applied? I've returned my unit, and have received confirmation from my distributor, and DVDO have also received that confirmation, but since then I've heard nothing (confirmation e-mail from local distributor was received the 19th this month).

Has anyone heard if the 'no audio' problem between the VP30 and the Pioneer 1014TX receiver can be fixed via firmware or possible hardware upgrade?

I'm waiting on a response from DVDO but am anxious because if it can't be fixed I'll need to buy an audio delay device, most likely the Felston product.

unless I pause and restart the movie.

This is the same technique I use when the stuttering occurs. I might see this happen once during a film. Sometimes not at all and sometimes more than once. :)

Anyone here used the international upgrade program?

I have, but I'm just wondering if - when you send the old unit back - if it's enough that the local distributor receives it and reports back to DVDO, or do the distributor have to send the unit back to DVDO, in order for the credit to be applied? I've returned my unit, and have received confirmation from my distributor, and DVDO have also received that confirmation, but since then I've heard nothing (confirmation e-mail from local distributor was received the 19th this month).

I can only say how it works on the Netherlands, i had to return the HD+ when i was ready (took a while :) ) had both units for a few weeks. Then returned it to the local dvdo contant they made a picture of the unit/ser. numbers and send it back to dvdo as proof. dvdo then refunds the cash.

Daniel.

I am having very bad experiences with the HDMI connectors on the HR10-250 DirecTV DVR (I will post this on that forum also) wiggle the connector at the back of the unit and anything from bad color, to lost audio can result. I have tried several cables and see the same thing.

Is any one with that unit seeing the same issue?
I don't have the HR10-250, but can tell you that other devices have this issue. Both my Sony DVD player and Yamaha receiver have very loose female HDMI connectors. I have to pull the cables to one side or the other and secure them somehow to get a reliable connection. It is really a problem with thicker cable typically used for longer than 6 foot cables. My JVC D-VHS deck and Sony HS-51 PJ are a little better. The only component I have with tight connections is the VP30, so DVDO deserves some credit. I have found that you can tighten up loose female HDMI connectors a little by bending the metal frame with a small screw driver, but you have to be really careful not to overdo it or scratch the contact surfaces. It helps with thin cables but not enough to overcome the problem with thick cables.

I can only say how it works on the Netherlands, i had to return the HD+ when i was ready (took a while :) ) had both units for a few weeks. Then returned it to the local dvdo contant they made a picture of the unit/ser. numbers and send it back to dvdo as proof. dvdo then refunds the cash.

Daniel.

Thanks. Everything's sorted out now though; I've got my credit. DVDO seem to be rather swamped in work at the moment, so it took a couple of days.

If you're reading this Tim, thanks for all your help. :)

I mailed back my HD a bit over a week ago -- still no $750 credit back

If not visible next Monday -- I 'll call them

Thanks. Everything's sorted out now though; I've got my credit. DVDO seem to be rather swamped in work at the moment, so it took a couple of days.

If you're reading this Tim, thanks for all your help. :)

It is really a problem with thicker cable typically used for longer than 6 foot cables.
That's a fact, I'm not even sure that thicker cabling is needed for longer runs, but every one I've purchased I could probably hang myself with it with no ill effects to the cable itself.

Since I've had the VP30 I have been using a HDMI>DVI adapter for the already in-place 25' DVI cable that I use to feed the display and it does not play well with the HDMI jack on the VP30, too much stress-I finally broke down and bought yet another 25' cable, HDMI this time, but I fear that this cable may be heavy as well. The solution, as you mentioned, is to jury-rig some sort of support for the cable.

It's ridiculous as DVI had all these sorts of issues resolved.

DVI=Very robust
HDMI=Very weak

Has anyone heard if the 'no audio' problem between the VP30 and the Pioneer 1014TX receiver can be fixed via firmware or possible hardware upgrade?

I'm waiting on a response from DVDO but am anxious because if it can't be fixed I'll need to buy an audio delay device, most likely the Felston product.

I opened a support request on Dec 28th and have not received a status of this
problem, other than the standard email reply that DVDO are busy and this
issue will be addresses on a priority basis.

I'd suggest submitting a ticket to DVDO. The more people that report this
problem, hopefully the sooner it will be addressed.

I don't have the HR10-250, but can tell you that other devices have this issue. Both my Sony DVD player and Yamaha receiver have very loose female HDMI connectors. I have to pull the cables to one side or the other and secure them somehow to get a reliable connection. It is really a problem with thicker cable typically used for longer than 6 foot cables. My JVC D-VHS deck and Sony HS-51 PJ are a little better. The only component I have with tight connections is the VP30, so DVDO deserves some credit. I have found that you can tighten up loose female HDMI connectors a little by bending the metal frame with a small screw driver, but you have to be really careful not to overdo it or scratch the contact surfaces. It helps with thin cables but not enough to overcome the problem with thick cables.

I have no problem with the HDMI connector on my 3 HDTiVos, my TV, and my SOny 975 DVD player. I definitely prefer the HDMI connector over the DVI connector since it is much smaller. I've never tried moving the connector once I push it in but all the cables I've used seem to seat very well. Right now I'm using the RAM HDMI cables and they definitely don't have a problem being too loose in the VP30. If anything it is too tight since it seems to take more effort to push the HDMI connector in than it does on my components or TV.

After trying and trying, I was finally able to hook up my Samsung to the VP30 via the VGA input. All indications from the VP30 and the tv are that it is 1080p. VP30 indicates that it's 1920x1080p output and tv indicates 1920x1080@60hz.

I'm pasting the information from the New DVDO iScan HD+ thread post #1016, where I found the tip I needed. (Thanks, Dale.) I'm pretty sure it's 1080p, but I hope someone else can verify.

Based on the suggestion below, I started by setting Framerate to unlocked 59.94. Next, I selected 1080p Format and then adjusted the V-Front to 2, V-Sync to 2, and V-Back to 27. Sync rate also has to be set to H+/V- and Colorspace set to RGB to avoid greenish tint.


The problem I'm having is that when I change the source on the tv to HDMI1 and switch to the digital HDMI output it works fine. But when I switch back to analog VGA (via a saved display profile), it doesn't work because the sync rate moves to tri-level. :confused: Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!
------------------------
If all you want is 1920x1080 at 59 Hz, start with the 1080p format. Then just go into the Output Setup menu, and under the Frame Rate entry set the output rate to unlocked at 59.00 Hz. This is covered at the bottom of page 8 of the iScan HD+ user's manual. You shouldn't need to touch any other settings.

The meanings of each of the video timing parameters is found on page 14 of the manual.


This is little different than what you describe above. The iScan can adjust the output frame rate (aka, vertical frequency) in 0.01 of a Hz, so the closest you can get is 59.99 Hz.

There are probably hundreds of ways to program the video timing to get the horizontal rate you mention. Where did you get the value of 66.647 kHz from? (That's a non-standard 1080p timing.) Does that source provide any more information about what sync or blanking timings should be?

EDIT: Okay, maybe not 'hundreds' of ways. ;)

With a frame rate of 59.99 Hz, you need a bit less than 1,111 lines in a frame to get 66.647 kHz as a horizontal rate. Obviously, that doesn't work, as you can't have fractional scan lines.

Using your original numbers (i.e., 59.988 Hz) gives exactly 1,111 lines per frame. Standard 1080p has 1125 lines per frame, so you have to lose 14 lines from the vertical blanking period if you want to keep 1080 active lines per frame. Without any guidance from the display documentation as to the desired vertical blanking timing, I'd suggest decreasing the vertical front porch by 2 lines, the vertical sync by 3 lines, and the vertical back porch by 9 lines. That should give you the number of lines per frame that the display is looking for. If the image isn't vertically centered after doing this, you may need to play with these a bit. The easiest way is to use vertical shift, which should work as long as the display is happy with the vertical sync pulse width. Overall, though, you need to remove 14 lines from the standard 1080p timing, and these all need to come from some combination of the vertical blanking parameters - front porch, sync, and back porch.

Note that with a 59.94 Hz frame rate (which is what you get if you keep the output frame rate locked to the input) and 1,111 lines per frame, you'll actually get a horizontal rate of 66.593 kHz. Using an unlocked output rate of 59.99 Hz will give you a line rate of 66.649 kHz, which is very close to the display's spec. You will likely get some motion stutter, however, as the iScan repeats frames to maintain the higher frame rate.

- Dale Adams

While watching lost tonight, which in broadcast in 720p, I switched my Moto 6412 from 1080i to 720p. I noticed that the picture got brighter and slightly more green. Is this an issue with VP30 or the 6412?

I'll have to try it tonight. It's good to see that someone got it to work. Maybe I shouldn't have sold my SDI RP82. I can't do analog out with my SOny 975 because of HDCP. It will work with my HDTiVos though.


After trying and trying, I was finally able to hook up my Samsung to the VP30 via the VGA input. All indications from the VP30 and the tv are that it is 1080p. VP30 indicates that it's 1920x1080p output and tv indicates 1920x1080@60hz.

I'm pasting the information from the New DVDO iScan HD+ thread post #1016, where I found the tip I needed. (Thanks, Dale.) I'm pretty sure it's 1080p, but I hope someone else can verify.

Based on the suggestion below, I started by setting Framerate to unlocked 59.94. Next, I selected 1080p Format and then adjusted the V-Front to 2, V-Sync to 2, and V-Back to 27. Sync rate also has to be set to H+/V-.


The problem I'm having is that when I change the source on the tv to HDMI1 and switch to the digital HDMI output it works fine. But when I switch back to analog VGA (via a saved display profile), it doesn't work because the sync rate moves to tri-level. :confused: Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!
------------------------

While watching lost tonight, which in broadcast in 720p, I switched my Moto 6412 from 1080i to 720p. I noticed that the picture got brighter and slightly more green. Is this an issue with VP30 or the 6412?

You have to calibrate each input resolution separately on the VP30. If you haven't already saved your calibration settings for both 1080i and 720p on the input that your cable box is connected to, it defaults back to zeroes for Brightness, Contrast, and Saturation. Could that be it?

I mailed back my HD a bit over a week ago -- still no $750 credit back

If not visible next Monday -- I 'll call them

Well - I haven't actually gotten the money on my bank account yet, but I've received all the right confirmations from DVDO, so I guess it's just a matter of time. Banks can be slow as well.

After trying and trying, I was finally able to hook up my Samsung to the VP30 via the VGA input. All indications from the VP30 and the tv are that it is 1080p. VP30 indicates that it's 1920x1080p output and tv indicates 1920x1080@60hz.

I'm pasting the information from the New DVDO iScan HD+ thread post #1016, where I found the tip I needed. (Thanks, Dale.) I'm pretty sure it's 1080p, but I hope someone else can verify.

Based on the suggestion below, I started by setting Framerate to unlocked 59.94. Next, I selected 1080p Format and then adjusted the V-Front to 2, V-Sync to 2, and V-Back to 27. Sync rate also has to be set to H+/V-.


The problem I'm having is that when I change the source on the tv to HDMI1 and switch to the digital HDMI output it works fine. But when I switch back to analog VGA (via a saved display profile), it doesn't work because the sync rate moves to tri-level. :confused: Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!
------------------------
That is great news. Congratulations. But, the big question is, how does the picture compare to HDMI? My VP30 is at DVDO being updated now, so I can't try it yet, but want to know if it is worth the effort. :D

So how does the picture look compared to the HDMI output?

After trying and trying, I was finally able to hook up my Samsung to the VP30 via the VGA input. All indications from the VP30 and the tv are that it is 1080p. VP30 indicates that it's 1920x1080p output and tv indicates 1920x1080@60hz.

I'm pasting the information from the New DVDO iScan HD+ thread post #1016, where I found the tip I needed. (Thanks, Dale.) I'm pretty sure it's 1080p, but I hope someone else can verify.

Based on the suggestion below, I started by setting Framerate to unlocked 59.94. Next, I selected 1080p Format and then adjusted the V-Front to 2, V-Sync to 2, and V-Back to 27. Sync rate also has to be set to H+/V-.


The problem I'm having is that when I change the source on the tv to HDMI1 and switch to the digital HDMI output it works fine. But when I switch back to analog VGA (via a saved display profile), it doesn't work because the sync rate moves to tri-level. :confused: Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!
------------------------

I've attached some pictures. It appears that the VGA input is sharper and has more detail, but my wife prefers the HDMI, probably because of the better color. The picture has not been adjusted/calibrated at all, so I'm sure I could improve the picture.

Prior to getting the VP30 I hadn't been thrilled with the picture compared to my old HLN507W, but Eliab is coming next week, so I'm anxious to hear what he thinks. :)

I think it is worth the effort if you have the cable, since it doesn't take a lot of time. I'm anxious to hear what you think. Also, not sure if bypasses the internal scaler on the tv.

I've attached some pictures. It appears that the VGA input is sharper and has more detail, but my wife prefers the HDMI, probably because of the better color. The picture has not been adjusted/calibrated at all, so I'm sure I could improve the picture.

Prior to getting the VP30 I hadn't been thrilled with the picture compared to my old HLN507W, but Eliab is coming next week, so I'm anxious to hear what he thinks. :)

I think it is worth the effort if you have the cable, since it doesn't take a lot of time. I'm anxious to hear what you think. Also, not sure if bypasses the internal scaler on the tv.

An HDMI cable either works or it doesn't but VGA cables can produce dramatic
differences based on the quality of the cable. I would beg or borrow a really
good VGA cable and check out the difference...

I've attached some pictures. It appears that the VGA input is sharper and has more detail, but my wife prefers the HDMI, probably because of the better color. The picture has not been adjusted/calibrated at all, so I'm sure I could improve the picture.

Prior to getting the VP30 I hadn't been thrilled with the picture compared to my old HLN507W, but Eliab is coming next week, so I'm anxious to hear what he thinks. :)

I think it is worth the effort if you have the cable, since it doesn't take a lot of time. I'm anxious to hear what you think. Also, not sure if bypasses the internal scaler on the tv.
I have the cable from a friend. I am also interested to hear what Eliab thinks. I was scheduled to have his partner Davis Abrams calibrate mine, but had to send it back in. As soon as I get it back and all together again, I will reschedule.

I've attached some pictures. It appears that the VGA input is sharper and has more detail, but my wife prefers the HDMI, probably because of the better color.
HDMI:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7018/hdmi1080i3ty.jpg

VGA:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1559/vga1080p5vd.jpg

I don't see more detail or anything preferable in the 2nd picture.

Did you use the same fixed WB on your camera or just Auto WB?

You have to calibrate each input resolution separately on the VP30. If you haven't already saved your calibration settings for both 1080i and 720p on the input that your cable box is connected to, it defaults back to zeroes for Brightness, Contrast, and Saturation. Could that be it?

I was not aware that you had to adjust the Brightness, Contrast, and Saturation, for each input resolution. I thought that those adjustment where made just for each input. You can also make adjustments based on the inputs res. coming into the VP30?

We desperately need color decoder adjustments for each input, in this day and time with all the different variances on equipment, why this feature is not talked about on the VP30 is beyond me(those above picture merely prove my point)
I am seriously thinking of dumping this unit if we can't get full color decoder adjustments for each input(other products offer this capability no problem at all)

I can't even seem to get answer as to if this is possible or not possible on the VP30
to ignore this feature is to ignore industry standards

-Gary

I've attached some pictures. It appears that the VGA input is sharper and has more detail, but my wife prefers the HDMI, probably because of the better color. The picture has not been adjusted/calibrated at all, so I'm sure I could improve the picture.

Prior to getting the VP30 I hadn't been thrilled with the picture compared to my old HLN507W, but Eliab is coming next week, so I'm anxious to hear what he thinks. :)

I think it is worth the effort if you have the cable, since it doesn't take a lot of time. I'm anxious to hear what you think. Also, not sure if bypasses the internal scaler on the tv.

I used the settings and got it to work with my Samsung. The picture doesn't fit the whole screen though even after I expand it to the max. The picture from my HDMI input looks much better but it also fills the screen. This is from my HDTiVos. I need to try it with the Oppo output since the analog output won't work with my Sony 975 DVD player.

To the DVDO representative who reads this forum -

Just wanted to keep this suggested improvement in the forefront. Sure do miss it when watching SD material.

Please get the HDMI "screech" fixed first, but please don't forget about non-linear stretch.

Thanks.

Well - I haven't actually gotten the money on my bank account yet, but I've received all the right confirmations from DVDO, so I guess it's just a matter of time. Banks can be slow as well.

Same here, dvdo returned my cash 16 days ago but still somehow in the bank system. Its a big scam of the banks taking >2 weeks to transfer some money in 2006.

Daniel.

My AMEX credit was applied right away. But I see now that you're talking about actual cash. I see you are in the Netherlands. I had read where credit card usuage in Europe is nothing like it is in the US. IS that true? Are there extra taxes or something in Europe if you use a creditcard?

My AMEX credit was applied right away. But I see now that you're talking about actual cash. I see you are in the Netherlands. I had read where credit card usuage in Europe is nothing like it is in the US. IS that true? Are there extra taxes or something in Europe if you use a creditcard?

Thats true i personally only use it for some biz. things and getting stuff on the net. We use normal bankcards in the way you use creditcards. And then mostly the 3 big brands amex, visa and master. The way it works (atleast in the netherlands) is that for example my mastercard(s) are directly linked to one of my bankaccounts so its a proxy for that. i can't put say $2000 on my 'creditcard' that will just result in getting $2000 pulled from one of my bankaccounts right away. Its not that bad but both ways can take their time. In this case the charging also took like 3 weeks (ive mailed dvdo several times to tell me they forgot to charge me while i was already using the vp30) only to have them recheck it and finding they charged me te day before they shipped it to the local dealers !!. Unless someone correct me i am sure its a 'delay' tacktic between master/visa and the banks so they can hold on to your cash for a while to get interest.

Daniel.

I am a little confused about input frame and active aspect ratios when dealing with DVD's. The display is 16:9 1280x720p native

If the DVD is full screen (4:3) Then should the Frame AR be set to 4:3 or left at 16:9. I assume if the DVD is widescreen or enhanced for widescreen or anamorphic or any of the other marketing phrases then the Frame AR should be 16:9. Could/should the Frame AR be left at 16:9 no matter what the DVD Frame AR is?

Should the active AR be changed to other than 1.78:1 if the DVD active AR is not 1.78:1? What is the effect of doing so.

I assume that the changes in Active and Frame AR are by Input device.

Can some one please clarify?

3) Unlocked mode. This means that the VP30's output frame rate is independent of the input rate. Regardless of any variations in the input, the output frame rate will be fixed at the specified value. This mode results in the most stable output signal as it's independent of any changes in the input signal. Unlike the locked mode(s), the VP30's output signal timing will not be disrupted when the input source is changed. However, it's guaranteed to cause dropped or repeated frames as the input and output frame rates are not the same. Note that regardless of what number the unlocked output frame rate is set to, it will never be identical to the input rate in this mode as the output signal timing is independent of the input timing. These dropped/repeated frames can result in visible irregularities in smooth motion, sometimes called motion judder or stutter.



Thanks again for the lengthy explanation. I was just wondering about the part I quoted above; especially the part I have put in bold letters.

Is what you say here (about dropped/repeated frames) always the case? I mean - if the source is 50Hz and you set the VP30 to Unlocked 47Hz or some such 'weird' number, I could see that it would be correct; that frames would be dropped.
But what if you have a 50Hz source, and you choose Unlocked 50Hz on the VP30?
I mean; the output would be a very steady 50Hz since it's not linked to the input rate, but if the input rate is also very stable at - in this case - 50Hz, then there wouldn't be much dropped or repeated frames, right?

Maybe this is very obvious, I just needed to be sure I understand this correctly.


(in unrelated news, I got the money for my old iScan HD on my bank account the day after I wrote my previous message here, so it went pretty quickly for me)

I was not aware that you had to adjust the Brightness, Contrast, and Saturation, for each input resolution. I thought that those adjustment where made just for each input. You can also make adjustments based on the inputs res. coming into the VP30?

Yes, the VP30 stores separate calibration settings for each resolution on each input. So if you switch from 480i to 480p to 720p to 1080i on one input, you have to calibrate each one or the VP30 will default back to all zeroes. Once you calibrate the first time, the VP30 will hold those settings the next time you switch back to that resolution.

Does anybody have any problems with the DVI to HDMI adapters getting in the way with each other? On the back of the VP30 the 4 inputs are side by side so when you use the adapters will the DVI ends hit each other. It looks like you can space 2 of them, but what about when you get all 4?

There is an HDMI DVI adapter that is actually a 6" cable with the right connectors on each end. I think I got mine from RAM electronics. In that way the HDMI ends fit neatly in the back of the VP30 and the DVI ends can be spread out. Only had to use one adapter and that was because I had already pulled a DVI DVI cable from my projector to the equipment rack and did not want to replace it. In the equipment rack I just use cables with the correct connectors. I just ordered three HDMI HDMI three foot cables so I can get rid of some of the excess cable in the rack space. My only problem is getting a good connection in some commercial grade HDMI connectors. No problems with the connectors in the VP30.

Interesting...a VP30 on EBay for double digits!

There are quite a few of them on Ebay right now. Some are listed only at MSRP, but with a *submit best offer*.
And there are also a few that are listed for under that amount.

Does anybody have any problems with the DVI to HDMI adapters getting in the way with each other? On the back of the VP30 the 4 inputs are side by side so when you use the adapters will the DVI ends hit each other. It looks like you can space 2 of them, but what about when you get all 4?

Before I replaced my cable to my projector with a DVI/HDMI, I had to use an adaptor on the VP30. It made one of the HDMI inputs unaccessible... SJ

Does anybody have any problems with the DVI to HDMI adapters getting in the way with each other? On the back of the VP30 the 4 inputs are side by side so when you use the adapters will the DVI ends hit each other. It looks like you can space 2 of them, but what about when you get all 4?

I actually had to return all 3 of my HDMI cables from Pacific Cable because their connectors are too wide. I purchased 3 from DVDO and they fit well but there is no room to spare. All of the adapters I've seen are quite wide and I would imagine could be a problem.

Hello,

I have a question about the VP30, I am at work and can not check it out. I want to buy some composite cable on the way home from work. I would like for the volume control to display on my screen coming from my monitor out of my processor. I have Component 1 and 2 form my cable box and DVD player out HDMI to my projector. Can I also use the composite inputs at the same time for my volume to display on the screen?? I hope this makes sense.

rmlowz

Question: In Picture Control, is your HUE control highlighted? I know HUE does not work on Component or PAl/SECAM, but I have my cable box DCT-6412 connected via DVI to HDMI cable, the SATURATION control works, but the HUE control is "grayed out" and does not function, has anyone seen this?

Thanks again for the lengthy explanation. I was just wondering about the part I quoted above; especially the part I have put in bold letters.

Is what you say here (about dropped/repeated frames) always the case? I mean - if the source is 50Hz and you set the VP30 to Unlocked 47Hz or some such 'weird' number, I could see that it would be correct; that frames would be dropped.
But what if you have a 50Hz source, and you choose Unlocked 50Hz on the VP30?
I mean; the output would be a very steady 50Hz since it's not linked to the input rate, but if the input rate is also very stable at - in this case - 50Hz, then there wouldn't be much dropped or repeated frames, right?

Maybe this is very obvious, I just needed to be sure I understand this correctly.


(in unrelated news, I got the money for my old iScan HD on my bank account the day after I wrote my previous message here, so it went pretty quickly for me)

After Dale's excellent explanation about frame rate(s), I have set mine up to be locked at 50Hz for all my inputs bar the VCR. The reason for leaving the VCR unlocked at 50Hz (takes a loooong time to bring down the default 59.94Hz setting by holding down the down arrow button by the way), is that it allows the VCR to be used as a quick changeover channel surfing tuner. Left the VCR setting on the input at AUTO, maybe this adds an extra "layer" of decoupling (page 21 of the manual).

If you lock this source as well, changing over channels is slowed down as every time you do, the VP30 and display have to resync. Having the VCR setup as a tuner has made my wife very happy. She can now watch telly and channel surf within the blink of an eye to her heart's content on the big screen as if it were a normal analog glass telly. Without the VP30, and having the VCR go straight into the panel's Video input, it was not worth watching.

At a distance of more than 7m, it's hard to tell (apart from just 4:3 format and occasional moire patterns), if the source is digital SD or analog (provided of course you have a "perfect" analog signal, i.e no noise or ghosts. It's certainly a testament to how good the VP30 is in de-interlacing and scaling plain old Video signals.

One other reason for locking down the other sources to 50Hz, i.e. have them locked to the input frame rate, is that the timing out of PVR's may not be as stable as those off air, i.e your HD/SD STBs.

As my display can handle both 50 and 60Hz frame rates natively, I have set my OPPO DVD player to be locked to 50Hz on 50Hz and 60Hz on 60Hz. This allows both NTSC and PAL DVDs to play without any FRC. I have set up a number of user profiles for these different frame rates and linked them to the appropriate inputs.

As I mentioned above, having the VP30 locked to the source frame rate, does slow down switching across the various inputs. But, normally, you only switch channels on the one input (tuner) source, and doing that gives no problems as the VP30 remains locked to the same source. This is NOT the case for the VCR analog tuner as there is no frame lock synchronisation beteen the stations, and in any case the tuner looses loose lock when changing channel.

Changing over from the default 50Hz unlocked to 59.94HZ to 50Hz locked or unlocked 50Hz, in other words, not having the VP30 do any frame rate conversion, has improved the vertical and horizontal text scrolling significantly. It should be perfect in scrolling smoothly, but interestingly, I've noted that even the broadcasters/programs don't always get it right, as for example on some scenes behind the scrolling text, there is sometimes a bit of judder; then when the background upon which the scrolling text is superimposed changes, the judder completely disappears. I do remember reading somewhere a long time ago, that the superposition of scrolling text, e.g superimposing video scrolling text (50Hz?) onto film material background (24 fps), can cause problems.

Still learning more and more about this beast; the more I learn, the more the manual is making sense ;) , and luckily, I've had no problems with it apart from the occassional audio drop out.

Just for DVDO's information, I think I've been noticing more audio dropouts since I locked my sources to 50Hz. Maybe others have found the same for 60Hz locked sources?

Phil.

Is what you say here (about dropped/repeated frames) always the case?
Yes.

I mean - if the source is 50Hz and you set the VP30 to Unlocked 47Hz or some such 'weird' number, I could see that it would be correct; that frames would be dropped.
But what if you have a 50Hz source, and you choose Unlocked 50Hz on the VP30?
I mean; the output would be a very steady 50Hz since it's not linked to the input rate, but if the input rate is also very stable at - in this case - 50Hz, then there wouldn't be much dropped or repeated frames, right?
It's not a matter of steady or stable, it's a matter of being identical. If the output frame rate is different than the input frame rate - and they will be, since they're not both derived from the same source clock - then you will get dropped or repeated frames. The closer they are to each other, the longer period there will be between the dropped or repeated frames.

- Dale Adams

Just for DVDO's information, I think I've been noticing more dropouts since I locked my sources to 50Hz. Maybe others have found the same for 60Hz locked sources?
What exactly do you mean by "dropouts"? What's dropping out?

- Dale Adams

What exactly do you mean by "dropouts"? What's dropping out?

- Dale Adams

Sorry Dale, audio dropouts.

Phil.

I've edited my previous post to reflect this.

Apart from a greater number of audio dropouts, I've also noticed a few "screeches/loud prolonged clicks" when the broadcaster changes video and or audio source since I changed over to 50Hz locked 50Hz FR. These screeches/prolonged clicks did not happen when I was operating on 50Hz unlocked 59.94 Hz FR mode, just the very occassional audio dropout.

Maybe be totally unrelated to the cause of this audio problem of course, but I thought it just worth mentioning here.

Are there IR discrete codes available for the presets and profiles or not? I saw this asked but since nobody really answered I assume there not available? I need a way to go directly to a input aspect ratio and also the four presets. Would also like to do that with the profiles in the output. Why wouldn't this be available on a item like this?

Are there IR discrete codes available for the presets and profiles or not? I saw this asked but since nobody really answered I assume there not available? I need a way to go directly to a input aspect ratio and also the four presets. Would also like to do that with the profiles in the output. Why wouldn't this be available on a item like this?

I need to know this as well. I've been looking at getting the MX-850 programable remote but without discrete codes for the presets it would be a waste of money.

Mike

I've not spoted any yet (either at DVDO, Remotecentral or the CCF DVDO did).

Would be usefull! ;)

Found an interesting use for the VP30, got some old banned horrors in the UK from a dvd sale and noticed a lot of judder on all the pans.

The discs are anamorphic pal (576i@50Hz) with DD & DTS 5.1 so they've certainly been remastered but there's something screwy with the framerates. I tried locked at 50 & 75Hz and also all the film mode settings but made no differance.

Then I thought I'd try unlocked at 59.94Hz and as if by magic the judder was virtually gone making the discs watchable. VP30 saves the day! ;)

The title I figured this out on was Zombie Flesh Eaters incase anyone comes across it.

On the subject of IR I have been working with Tom of DVDO on that subject and that of RS232. They agree they have a lot to do in that area. The implemented IR commands at this time are what the buttons have, and some of the RS232 is not working. Their intent, but maybe not in this next release, is to get the RS232 completed so that every aspect of adjusting the scaler can be done through that interface. Their next release is concentrating on the Audio and HDCP issues.

On the IR side, the remote supplied has no digits so setting values would be hard, other than through the menu. I use the RS232 and the IR system. For IR I use an emitter right over the IR window and have perfect results. I have a PC in my Theater control loop so I have the luxury in commanding "Glue" devices like the VP30, component switchers, AV processor to specific states by input selected, even to the level of what DVD is playing.

Most manufacturers only supply IR codes for the remote they supply. This is a very narrow and shortsighted view with the prevalence of universal IR remotes. Implementing additional IR commands is not very difficult providing there is enough memory to do so. In the case of the VP30, because of the RS232 logic most of the code should be there, and the only issue how to trigger it RS232 or IR.

What I suggest is that we start a thread wherein we list and describe the IR remote functions we would like to have. In the specific case of the VP30 they would be limited to 256 different functions due to the nature of their IR protocol (keeping a single device or customer code) . I am sure DVDO would be more than open if we presented the list to them and it was not too difficult to implement they would cooperate.

I imagine what most want is more presets (16)? and the ability to reference them, but then we get into digits. or programmable remotes and the publication in a standard notation (e.g. Pronto ccf) the codes needed.

Found an interesting use for the VP30, got some old banned horrors in the UK from a dvd sale and noticed a lot of judder on all the pans.

The discs are anamorphic pal (576i@50Hz) with DD & DTS 5.1 so they've certainly been remastered but there's something screwy with the framerates. I tried locked at 50 & 75Hz and also all the film mode settings but made no differance.

Then I thought I'd try unlocked at 59.94Hz and as if by magic the judder was virtually gone making the discs watchable. VP30 saves the day! ;)

The title I figured this out on was Zombie Flesh Eaters incase anyone comes across it.

Interesting comment. Is this why DVDO default the 50Hz setting to unlocked 59.94Hz? Although locking to 50Hz has given me almost perfectly smooth vertical text scrolling, I have begun to notice more judder on pans on some shows. Typically, live sport broadcasts are really smooth, but what I think are "video" shows/series such as produced by the BBC and other "50Hz" countries, seem to show more panning judder - are these perhaps remastered video/film or film to video? The judder is faster and smaller in step/movement displacement, but more noticible. Unlocking to 59.94Hz still shows judder, but the steps seem larger and smoother. What are your experiences when you ran locked to 50Hz on a variety of material? I take it your display runs 50Hz FR natively, i.e the vertical judder bar runs smoothly across the screen at 50Hz FR?

Why is this so? Could Dale perhaps give us a clue on this?

Interesting comment. Is this why DVDO default the 50Hz setting to unlocked 59.94Hz?
No. The reason is that most displays support 60 Hz input, but many do not support 50 Hz input. By defaulting the output to 60 Hz for everything, the user is more likely to get a picture when first hooking up the iScan.

Although locking to 50Hz has given me almost perfectly smooth vertical text scrolling, I have begun to notice more judder on pans on some shows. Typically, live sport broadcasts are really smooth, but what I think are "video" shows/series such as produced by the BBC and other "50Hz" countries, seem to show more panning judder - are these perhaps remastered video/film or film to video? The judder is faster and smaller in step/movement displacement, but more noticible.
Most sports broadcasts are 'video', i.e., they're not using 2:2 pulldown and there's motion from field to field. Many television shows are shot on film and then edited in video to produce the final output.

When you see a show with panning judder, try switching the iScan's film mode to 'off' and see if this improves the judder. This disables the 2:2 pulldown detection and causes the iScan's deinterlacer to treat everything as video. If you still see the judder, then it may just be the results of 2:2 pulldown repeating every frame twice, or just some irregular or odd cadence in the source. If it fixes the problem, then it's likely caused by the deinterlacer locking to 2:2 pulldown when the source is really video, or when there is a combination of video and 2:2 on the screen at the same time (although that usually results in combing).

One other possibility is that the show is shot on film, but it's been edited to produce some really odd cadence. Some of the video editing tools allow the producer to speed up the field rate to change the amount of time a particular scene takes, or to make more time for commercials. This type of mucking about with the signal can make it really hard for the deinterlacer to figure out what's going on, with the result being that it's constantly dropping in and out of 2:2 lock.

- Dale Adams

No. The reason is that most displays support 60 Hz input, but many do not support 50 Hz input. By defaulting the output to 60 Hz for everything, the user is more likely to get a picture when first hooking up the iScan.


Most sports broadcasts are 'video', i.e., they're not using 2:2 pulldown and there's motion from field to field. Many television shows are shot on film and then edited in video to produce the final output.

When you see a show with panning judder, try switching the iScan's film mode to 'off' and see if this improves the judder. This disables the 2:2 pulldown detection and causes the iScan's deinterlacer to treat everything as video. If you still see the judder, then it may just be the results of 2:2 pulldown repeating every frame twice, or just some irregular or odd cadence in the source. If it fixes the problem, then it's likely caused by the deinterlacer locking to 2:2 pulldown when the source is really video, or when there is a combination of video and 2:2 on the screen at the same time (although that usually results in combing).

One other possibility is that the show is shot on film, but it's been edited to produce some really odd cadence. Some of the video editing tools allow the producer to speed up the field rate to change the amount of time a particular scene takes, or to make more time for commercials. This type of mucking about with the signal can make it really hard for the deinterlacer to figure out what's going on, with the result being that it's constantly dropping in and out of 2:2 lock.

- Dale Adams

Thanks a lot for that Dale. I'll give forcing the mode to either Film or Video, rather than leaving it at Auto, a go later today.

Ailean, I wonder if you could try that DVD at 50Hz again and force it to either Film or Video mode, if you haven't already? I'd be very curious what you find.

Phil.

When you see a show with panning judder, try switching the iScan's film mode to 'off' and see if this improves the judder.

Doesn't the VP30 disable the film mode selection when watching TV shows? I've never been able to edit this setting when watching TV, only when watching DVDs. I'm sure that I'm misunderstanding something here!

stlblufan,

You need to reread the Video Processor FAQ - film mode and video mode have nothing to do with TV shows. TV shows can be both video or film (or as Dale stated, irregular cadences which are neither but can appear as both).

Ailean, I wonder if you could try that DVD at 50Hz again and force it to either Film or Video mode, if you haven't already? I'd be very curious what you find.

Phil.

The display I was using is my old 19" CRT monitor as my TV doesn't do progressive so I've been using this at SXGA via RGBHV and the PJ via HDMI to test out the VP30 till I can find a nice LCD TV.

I normally have it on locked 75Hz & 72Hz and most TV/DVD stuff has been okay. With this particular DVD I tried 50z locked and changed the film mode settings for both 50 & 75 but it still showed really bad judder (lots of pans in this film). But with unlocked 59.... it smoothed it out lots, not completely gone but enough not to be distracting.

I know normally film sourced stuff gets a 4% speed up from 24->25fps then transfered to 50hz PAL, I'm wondering if some step was skiped or it's an odd effect from a cheap transfer from a remastered 60hz NTSC disc.

stlblufan,

You need to reread the Video Processor FAQ - film mode and video mode have nothing to do with TV shows. TV shows can be both video or film (or as Dale stated, irregular cadences which are neither but can appear as both).

Ofer,

I guess what I am saying is that when I use my cable box as the source, I have never seen film mode enabled on the VP30. Maybe I just never watch film source television. More likely, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Anyway, thanks for the pointer.

I had posted this a while back, but never got a response. Can anyone advise?

I am a little confused about input frame and active aspect ratios when dealing with DVD's. The display is 16:9 1280x720p native

If the DVD is full screen (4:3) Then should the Frame AR be set to 4:3 or left at 16:9. I assume if the DVD is widescreen or enhanced for widescreen or anamorphic or any of the other marketing phrases then the Frame AR should be 16:9. Could/should the Frame AR be left at 16:9 no matter what the DVD Frame AR is?

Should the active AR be changed to other than 1.78:1 if the DVD active AR is not 1.78:1? What is the effect of doing so.

I assume that the changes in Active and Frame AR are by Input device.

Can some one please clarify?

Ofer,

I guess what I am saying is that when I use my cable box as the source, I have never seen film mode enabled on the VP30. Maybe I just never watch film source television. More likely, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Anyway, thanks for the pointer.

Are you sending the iScan VP30 a SD interlaced signal (480i) from you cable box? If not, this selection will always be grayed out because it is control of the deinterlacer which is not used when the VP30 is sent a progressive or HD signal.

I am a little confused about input frame and active aspect ratios when dealing with DVD's. The display is 16:9 1280x720p native
Input Frame AR and Active AR are controls which should be used based on the content being viewed, not the display type.
If the DVD is full screen (4:3) Then should the Frame AR be set to 4:3 or left at 16:9.
If you would like to view the content in its original aspect ratio (OAR), with no distortion, this is the correct setting. For example, if you are watching an SD TV show (4:3) that is shown in widescreen (16:9), than the Frame AR should be 4:3 (and the Active AR should be at least 1.78:1).
I assume if the DVD is widescreen or enhanced for widescreen or anamorphic or any of the other marketing phrases then the Frame AR should be 16:9.
This is correct.
Could/should the Frame AR be left at 16:9 no matter what the DVD Frame AR is?
If you'd like, but in the cases where the content is originally broadcast/recorded in 4:3 (non-anamporhic) you will have horizontal distortion in the image (i.e the camera will add way more than 10 pounds).
Should the active AR be changed to other than 1.78:1 if the DVD active AR is not 1.78:1? What is the effect of doing so.
If the content you are viewing is 1.66:1 and non-anamporhic (like some Disney movies), I highly recommend that you do change this, because if you don't you will lose some content on the top/bottom. The Active AR controls borders which are preset the chosen aspect ratio. If one where concerned about burnin from wacthing too many 2.35:1 movies they could change the Active AR to 2.35:1 and change the borders to maximum brightness in the Output Setup menu. This will put up gray letterboxing rather than the black letterboxing recorded in the content. There are many applications for these two settings (Frame AR and Active AR) and ultimately their use comes down to personal preference.

Josh, when are you going to release the rest of the discrete codes? In particular I am looking for the analog audio one.

Are you sending the iScan VP30 a SD interlaced signal (480i) from you cable box? If not, this selection will always be grayed out because it is control of the deinterlacer which is not used when the VP30 is sent a progressive or HD signal.
So in general, if you are sending a 480i cable box or DBS signal to the VP30 the auto setting would be prudent..? Since one never knows what the material actually is?

I've just started to play with this trying to get a little better picture from SD channels on both cable and DBS.