Gotta make this easier to find for the cap'in.

Are we sure that Panasonic is indeed displaying the 65" 1080p model at the IFA fair? It seems likely they would, but has it been confirmed?

I've heard zip, zero concerning Panny's unveiling of a 1080p Plasma at the IFA. I think we all just assumed Panny would be showing off their latest greatest, but who knows? Capt. Pike is MIA, and for all I know he could be suffering from complete shock after viewing a Panny 65" 1080p, hence unable to type a post on this thread.

Perhaps Captain Pike is still in the Menagerie :)

-- Rich

so terribly crippled and confined to that wheelchair, who wouldn't want the talosians to enable them to live within their mind?

Ya know, maybe the lure of a giant plasma isn't such a good idea.

Perhaps some of us shouldn't be encouraged to watch any more TV. ;) :D

Ya know, maybe the lure of a giant plasma isn't such a good idea.

Perhaps some of us shouldn't be encouraged to watch any more TV. ;) :D



too late! (in my case) the damage is already done! :p

Maybe Capt. Pike heaved the television over his shoulder and is headed down the autobahn like a bat out of hell - with the Police not far behind. All the while trying to text message AVSForum from his cell phone.

Ya know, maybe the lure of a giant plasma isn't such a good idea.

Perhaps some of us shouldn't be encouraged to watch any more TV. ;) :D



OMG... Rich has gone to the dark side! As William Shatner said in Airplane 2: "okay shut it off, shut it all down... lets go home everyone!"

OMG... Rich has gone to the dark side! As William Shatner said in Airplane 2: "okay shut it off, shut it all down... lets go home everyone!"

Confession time: All week (before bed) I've been watching DVDs of the original Star Trek series (the local store had them in the discount bin).

I...I..just didn't want to admit it....:o

I NEED that plasma to see Bill SHATNER emoting on an EVEN GRANDER SCALE!

i wonder if they have 7 year financing hey it was just a thought i lived on peanut butter and jelly before.

Wie gehts einen, Capt. Pike! Any news from Deutschland? Geez, I'm going to start thinking the Panny 65"er as the "Plasma Bermuda Triangle". This isn't the first time we've had someone on this Forum providing a firsthand account the a Panny 65 only to disappear for some unknown reason...just poof, like they were never here. Darn, the Plasma 4400 Club has another member.

Captain Pike, throw us a bone!

This web site will soon post a HD video of Panasonic's booth at IFA.

"Over 6GB of videos are available on this page. Still Epson and Panasonic videos to release, so check back.."

http://ifa2005.videocoverage.org/

Sorry...just me here, not Cap'n Pike. :p

While we're waiting, to pass the time...

From the recent Ultimate AV report on the HD Conference: (http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/090105hdtv/)

Cove also discussed the resolution limits of the human eye—about 1mm at 10 feet—and how this affects the optimum screen size for a given viewer. With a 480p, 42-inch (diagonal) set, he argued that you can see all the resolution the set has to offer at 12 feet. Move up to 720p, and you need to reduce the distance to eight feet to see it all. And at 1080p, the optimum resolution distance decreases to five feet. In other words, if the average viewer sits farther than eight feet from a 720p, 42-inch picture, he or she won't see all the detail the set has to offer. If you sit much closer than this, you won't see more real detail. But you may see other things more clearly, such as video noise, artifacts, and the set's pixel structure! The corresponding distances for a 65-inch picture were said to be 12 feet for 720p and eight feet for 1080p.

Also of interest in that article:

DisplaySearch presented a brief summary of research it had contracted to Westar Display Technologies, Inc. on five different digital displays of various types. The sets chosen for analysis (all of them flat panels and microdisplay RPTVs—no projectors or CRTs) varied in size from 37 to 52 inches.

The study did not appear to factor in the effect of the differing screen sizes. Keeping this limitation in mind, the brightest of the sets tested were a 52-inch MD-RPTV LCoS set from JVC, followed by a 37-inch LG LCD flat panel. The poorest full-screen luminance was from A 42-inch Panasonic PDP, but the same PDP was close to the LCD in highlight luminance (though the JVC was the clear champ in this category as well). Highlight luminance is measured with a portion of the screen full white and the remainder black. Low full-screen luminance but good highlight luminance is characteristic of PDPs in general.

The deepest blacks were from the Panasonic PDP, followed by a Samsung 50-inch DLP MD-RPTV. The poorest black levels were produced by the LCoS and a Sony 50-inch LCD MD-RPTV. The best full-screen contrast was turned-in by the LG LCD, Samsung DLP, and JVC LCoS (all were comparable in this respect. But in highlight contrast, the Panasonic PDP bettered the DLP and LCoS by a factor of at least 2:1—and it beat the LCD displays by nearly 4:1.

(Drums fingers, waiting for Captain Pike to wheel in with his report).

Those distances quoted are averages, and I am not average. ;)
Gimme my pixels.

We should of just taken up a collection bought RH a ticket and sent him over to do the writeup.

We should of just taken up a collection bought RH a ticket and sent him over to do the writeup.

I second the motion...

Interesting to read viewing distances. All along, if I could get the proper 1080p resolution, I had planned to mainly sit approx. 10' from the 65"er. I thought this would give me the best HT experience overall, but w/this size screen I'm sure a lot of latitude could be given w/no problem.

While we are waiting for CaptainPike, I would like to thank Hoodlum who first broke the story and seemingly always on the cutting edge of information. Now, on to my question...



As a show of hands, given the 65" model has all the features you are looking for - how many people here plan on getting one in the nearterm? (I know my credit card is smoking red-hot burning a whole in my pants.)

As a show of hands, given the 65" model has all the features you are looking for - how many people here plan on getting one in the nearterm?
The 65" is a tiny bit too large for my viewing distance. I'd love a 57" or maybe the 61" Pioneer. If there was a 1080p with all the bells and whistles in those sizes, I'd probably buy that soon.

As a show of hands, given the 65" model has all the features you are looking for - how many people here plan on getting one in the nearterm? (I know my credit card is smoking red-hot burning a whole in my pants.)

Here are features I would look for:

- Native Rate 1080P support via HDMI for DVI
- Separate Memories per input
- Improved grayscale and noise reduction

Of course, I have a 657UY so there is a high bar for me to upgrade :)

I am really hoping for a 1080P commercial unit down the line.

-- Rich

RichB:

I know you have a noise issue now, but I thought that was strictly DVI blade related and that VGA looks great. (Still waiting to hear about your HDMI test).

As for seperate memories, I havent bought a TV in a few years, but thought that was standard. Apparently not.

And yes, native rate 1080p support is expected by many, I sure hope that Panny did not overlook this important aspect.

RichB:


And yes, native rate 1080p support is expected by many, I sure hope that Panny did not overlook this important aspect.

Well, Sony overlooked it with their Qualia series, so there is reason to be nervous that Panasonic may have as well (for those wanting 1080p input support). Sony apparently has a pricey upgrade for 1080p input on their projector. It would be nice if Panasonic was forward thinking enough to provide 1080p support.

I plan on getting one and am on the waiting list at Visual Apex. A salesman says they will be available at the end of October. If you go to their site, the older TH-65PHD7UY is listed, but not the price they are selling it for. (I wonder what price they will be charging to "blow out" the old stock. I wonder if there are any discounts on the older model.) The new TH-65PHD8UK also is listed, but does not have a selling price either.

My buying decision will be based on what price they are going to sell the TV for and what features are incorporated. Like others, I'm hoping for 1080p through HDMI so I will be a "little" "future-proofed" with this set.

RichB:

I know you have a noise issue now, but I thought that was strictly DVI blade related and that VGA looks great. (Still waiting to hear about your HDMI test).

As for seperate memories, I havent bought a TV in a few years, but thought that was standard. Apparently not.

And yes, native rate 1080p support is expected by many, I sure hope that Panny did not overlook this important aspect.

The noise issue appears on the DVI input only. No problem on component or VGA. However, the VGA input is not as smooth as the DVI and displays some false contours. I noticed this in the gradients displaying facial images. I guess this validates the increased grayscales on DVI/HDMI.

Comparing the artifacts, I still prefer the DVI since the noise is in a small band of the lower gray scale and does not affect all viewing. Most scenes are fine. For example, the caves in LOTR noisy, but brighter scenes are fine.

I am waiting for the Guru from Panasonic to return from vacation, I am hoping that they can find some solution.

My HDMI board should be in next week and I will report on it.

-- Rich

Rich, it sounds like you are our best hope for getting this 14 bit processing assessment out in the open. If I had known that you were ordering an HDMI blade I would have offered to pay for overnight shipping. Anyway, I'm glad that it is you who are going to try it...after reading your posts for several months I have great respect for your competence. Just remember that some of us are holding our breaths.

Interesting comment about the 1080p Pany here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1940796&postcount=16

Saw this also at IFa, imho probably the best Plasma at the show, I preferred it to the 82" Samsung. Interesting thing is whilst I was standing there admiring the screen and trying to chat up the marketing beauty next to it (some of those German babes do have incredible legs) , 3 top Pioneer PDP executives from Japan came over to look at the screen, one could see that they were overtly impressed even in the Japanese understated manner, they must have spent over 20 minutes porring over the screen, looking at its different aspects in minutae. I had a feeling that if there wasn't anyone around they probably will have the stripped the unit down to the bare bones

Rich, it sounds like you are our best hope for getting this 14 bit processing assessment out in the open. If I had known that you were ordering an HDMI blade I would have offered to pay for overnight shipping. Anyway, I'm glad that it is you who are going to try it...after reading your posts for several months I have great respect for your competence. Just remember that some of us are holding our breaths.

Thanks, but to be fair the 7UY does not support 14 bit processing. I think it supports 12 bits or 2048 shades. So the 1080P 65 should be better.

-- Rich

Interesting comment about the 1080p Pany here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1940796&postcount=16


Coool.

One thumb up review. Stokes the fire.

That's a funny description of the Pioneer rep's reaction. But I'm sure Pioneer's new displays will be killer too.

Last night I was doing more experimenting with black backdrops and backlighting. I watched the (locally) ubiquitous Hi-Def loop featuring Cold Play live.

It really was astonishing how amazing the picture quality was - just incredibly sharp, dense, clear and realistic.

I just came back from viewing Cold Play in Hi-Def on the Sony Qualia 006. Fabulous display. It was surrounded by various other Sony offerings - flat panels, LCD RPTVs. etc. Although I didn't necessarily pick up the discreet pixels/grid of the lower res displays, there is nonetheless a complete silky-smoothness to a 1080p display that is more natural and calming. In contrast the other dislays just have a slightly "crunchier," more video-like look to small details and image outlines.

As incredible as the Sony Qualia 006 RPTV is, and it can certainly reproduce details and subtleties I wouldn't see on a 42" ED plasma, it still didn't have the vividness and sheer tactile realism of what I saw on my 42" ED plasma. On the Qualia it was watching a fantastic film print of Cold Play live. On the plasma it was more like "Cold Play Live."

I left convinced that the Panny 1080p 65" certainly holds out promise as providing among the most believable HD images available. It's just fantastic that it's arriving with a price cut.

Comment from someone else in the other AV forum:

Yes, I saw it at IFA, very impressive indeed, with an almost 3D image quality, very lifelike.

As were similar size (or even larger) displays from LG and Samsung.

But the problem with a show like IFA is that you really can't use it to make direct comparisons between different manufacturers' displays. They are located in different halls, and the quality of the source material was variable - even though mostly HD rather than SD.

While there was a commonly used source of HD football on several stands, the quality of this was not as good as it should have been - too many compression artefacts.

Suffice to say that Panasonic in my view did an excellent job to show off all their plasmas to good effect.

And with the right source pictures, 65" is definitely a nice size for home cinema.

Just makes your eyes water, don't it! Man oh man, I've got to say, these are very exciting times in the AV World. Can't wait!

While the first reports confirm high PQ, there are
important questions which are yet unresolved. For
anybody who might be getting in touch with the
1080@65" lady please check:

- Is the 1920x1080 res supported via DVI/HDMI
and if so at what range of display frequencies?

- Does it have fans and if so how loud/silent
they are?

- What is the pixel fill ratio and screen door effect
in relation to the viewing distance?

The last question is motivated by the fact that
reduction of the (sub)pixel size could be achieved
by reducing less the width of the ribs separating
(sub)pixels than the actual radiating area. Then the
pixel fill ratio would be reduced which could have
impact on the screen door effect.

someone please also ask if this PDP will be released also in the next Professional series or not. I cant see myself buying the consumer edition... can any of you? i mean would you really give up all the advanced picture controls and user selectable inputs that make our viewing experience so much better than whats offered in the stores? I cant.... All i want is this panel to show up as a Pro model.

someone please also ask if this PDP will be released also in the next Professional series or not. I cant see myself buying the consumer edition... can any of you? i mean would you really give up all the advanced picture controls and user selectable inputs that make our viewing experience so much better than whats offered in the stores? I cant.... All i want is this panel to show up as a Pro model.

While I agree w/you wholeheartedly, how long have we've been waiting for 1080p Plasma...like, forever? This is a big crack in the the door of upcoming panels, and I expect to see 1080p the industry standard resolution of ALL flat panel tech in the upcoming years. This is ahead of my own time frame for upgrading my HT, and will cascade into other evolving video tech, as well as speed along the transition to full HD for everyone. After carefullily watching Plasma tech for a few years now, I can easily say that this is the where the rubber meets the road, and Panasonic is the first to unveil the long awaited Holy Grail of HD Resolution in a 1080p Plasma. Clap, clap, clap, clap...I applaud.

someone please also ask if this PDP will be released also in the next Professional series or not. I cant see myself buying the consumer edition... can any of you? i mean would you really give up all the advanced picture controls and user selectable inputs that make our viewing experience so much better than whats offered in the stores? I cant.... All i want is this panel to show up as a Pro model.

I think the whole pro vs. consumer thing is overrated. Two or three generations ago I would agree, but not now. I dont see PQ being drastically different (atleast with my eyes). The controls on the consumer models are fine enough. Plus, the in home warrenty in a big plus as opposed to the pro model carry in. (This plasma is huge).

I can live with speakers on the side, but wish the split screen option would be available to conusmers.


A lot of this is speculation based upon past models, lets see what they announce. Secondly, who the hell knows when the pro models are going to apprear?


EDITED for clarity. Removed stand comment

I think the whole pro vs. consumer thing is overrated.
The consumer models are thicker, heavier, you can't remove the place wasting speakers and last but not least the consumer models don't support native rate via HDMI, as far as I know. That's quite a lot of difference to me!

...the consumer models don't support native rate via HDMI, as far as I know. That's quite a lot of difference to me!

The electronics to drive 1080p are new so I havent ruled out the support. We'll find this out hopefully soon from Captain Pike or someone else. I have my fingers crossed.

The speakers dont bother me. In fact I go through more recievers than TV's for some reason. So, the speakers are nice to have while waiting for repairs or the UPS man.

I will wait for a professional model unless it supports 1920x1080 via HDMI or DVI with 1:1 pixel mapping. That may be different from 1080P in that there may still be scaling and overscan. I want none of that. This is not difficult, you can buy a LCD monitor from Dell for less than $1000 that does 1:1 via DVI perfectly.

I want a home theater display, so speakers must be at least removable.

This direct release into the consumer market is a change for Panasonic. My guess is that they felt the need to have a product out there to compete with the 1080P rear projection and projectors that are now arriving. The 658UK may be the remaining 768 panels and hopefully will be phased out.

-- Rich

After re-reading my response to Madshi, I realized I was wrong and did not completely understand his comment. Sorry. (Blame it on tiredness, dislexia, old eyeballs, or complete incompetance).

The HDMI 1:1 pixel mapping issue... I realize the pro version is more of a monitor but is the cause of the comuers lack of native mapping its tuner? The more I think of MadShi and what RichB wrote it does start to worry me.

Is it a serious issue?

The HDMI 1:1 pixel mapping issue... I realize the pro version is more of a monitor but is the cause of the comuers lack of native mapping its tuner? The more I think of MadShi and what RichB wrote it does start to worry me.

Is it a serious issue?

1080P support is an issue going forward. HD-DVD or BD players will support 1080P encoding and output.

1920x1080 1:1 pixel mapping could be the same thing, but maybe not. If the vender thinks 1080P is video only, it is possible that the display will overscan the image and not do 1:1 mapping. That means PC display will look like crap. 1:1 is needed to for HTPCs and Scalers. New scalers will be arriving next year with Gennum and Realta chips that have the potential for improving HDTV by providing high-quality 1080i de-interlacing.

-- Rich

I plan on getting the Mosquito/Dragonfly combo so, I sure hope it can do 1:1 mapping. Thanks Rich.

I plan on getting the Mosquito/Dragonfly combo so, I sure hope it can do 1:1 mapping. Thanks Rich.

Has anyone received a Dragonfly to test yet?

Thanks,

1920x1080 1:1 pixel mapping could be the same thing, but maybe not. If the vender thinks 1080P is video only, it is possible that the display will overscan the image and not do 1:1 mapping. That means PC display will look like crap. 1:1 is needed to for HTPCs and Scalers.

I asked that question here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=576701
but, nobody knew (or cared) enough to answer. I guess TV engineers don't visit these consumer forums.

A problem that clouds this discussion is the use of the term 1080p. 1080p and 1080i should only be used when discussing interfaces. (e.g. 1080i via HDMI). When we are talking about modern (post CRT) displays , they are all "progressive". By progressive here, I mean any given pixel stays the same color until it is explicitly changed. Unlike a CRT pixel which looses its color shortly after the electron beam leaves it. So when refering to a 1920x1080 display we should use 1080 (without the i or p).

Note the problem is illustrated in the title of this thread. The appearence of the term 1080p causes peaple to start talking about whether we will ever see 1080p (interface) content when we don't even know if this new 1080 plasma 1080p on any particular input.

I asked that question here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=576701
but, nobody knew (or cared) enough to answer. I guess TV engineers don't visit these consumer forums.

A problem that clouds this discussion is the use of the term 1080p. 1080p and 1080i should only be used when discussing interfaces. (e.g. 1080i via HDMI). When we are talking about modern (post CRT) displays , they are all "progressive". By progressive here, I mean any given pixel stays the same color until it is explicitly changed. Unlike a CRT pixel which looses its color shortly after the electron beam leaves it. So when refering to a 1920x1080 display we should use 1080 (without the i or p).

Note the problem is illustrated in the title of this thread. The appearence of the term 1080p causes peaple to start talking about whether we will ever see 1080p (interface) content when we don't even know if this new 1080 plasma 1080p on any particular input.

I think you are missing the point. We all understand that Plasmas are progressive. The issue at hand is can it handle a 1080P input. In that case, the P is required for discussion.

-- Rich

In springtime, for plasma, with 1080p....

But the real question now is the price. Will it cost me a kidney?

While I agree w/you wholeheartedly, how long have we've been waiting for 1080p Plasma...like, forever?....Panasonic is the first to unveil the long awaited Holy Grail of HD Resolution in a 1080p Plasma. Clap, clap, clap, clap...I applaud.


actually I havent been waiting. I was and still am perfectly happy with the 42 ED we have now. I only wandered back into this forum after my parents asked me to research a larger PDP so this could be sent to a different room. Its in a room thats 20 x 20, so even if we upgrade to the 1080p 65 model, it still wont make any discernable difference in clarity compared to the 720p version.

we already have our "theater" experience elsewhere (upstairs). This is going to merely be a monitor... probably just for gaming and non immersive movies. The 42" ED will move to the game room in this case.

i guess in that sense my options are a lot more open than any of yours. I could go with either a 50 or 65... since its not going to be used for HT purposes. But if the price calculations hold true, I'd get the 65" Commercial just for bragging rights i guess.

I definitely will not be buying the consumer edition, even if it is 1080p. Panasonic's consumer line is a joke, which is sad because their professional displays rock. I think everything they have out now is an eyesore and after owning the sleek, minimalist design of the Professional display, there is no way i'm returning for a Joe Blow 6-pack comsumer version...

In springtime, for plasma, with 1080p....
That's a bit cryptic to me. Are you talking about 1080p native resolution or are you talking about 1080p native resolution plus 1080p input over HDMI? Springtime probably means 61" Pioneer, I guess?

I will wait for a professional model unless it supports 1920x1080 via HDMI or DVI with 1:1 pixel mapping. That may be different from 1080P in that there may still be scaling and overscan. I want none of that.

I don't know if you know, but according to Bruzzi's Plasma FAQ the consumer model can adjust overscan. I don't own a panny, but looks straight forward:


http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showpost.php?p=28&postcount=1

I don't know if you know, but according to Bruzzi's Plasma FAQ the consumer model can adjust overscan. I don't own a panny, but looks straight forward:


http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showpost.php?p=28&postcount=1

That is good to know.

Word is that the new Panasonic will be here next Spring.

-- Rich

Rogo thanks for the bone. Now lets add some meat. Since Pike is MIA, what did you and and Jason Turk find out at CEDIA?

I plan on getting one and am on the waiting list at Visual Apex. A salesman says they will be available at the end of October. If you go to their site, the older TH-65PHD7UY is listed, but not the price they are selling it for. (I wonder what price they will be charging to "blow out" the old stock. I wonder if there are any discounts on the older model.) The new TH-65PHD8UK also is listed, but does not have a selling price either.

My buying decision will be based on what price they are going to sell the TV for and what features are incorporated. Like others, I'm hoping for 1080p through HDMI so I will be a "little" "future-proofed" with this set.

I think the new Panny 65" 8UY you are ordering is NOT the 1080p model we are talking about here. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I'd check it out.

He is on the wait for 8UY.

I called, and VA is in the dark (like us) when it comes to specs, shipdate, and price. They tried to put me on the 8UY wait until I pressed. They took a step back and realized that Panny has made a press release, but not sent anything to distributors.

VA was being honest and not malicous. They just didn't know about the 1080p model.

Also, I believe that VA only sells pro models an not consumer.

Like I said, the release of Panny's new line of Plasma TV's known as "8UY" are tweaks & improvements from their "7UY" models, but are NOT the 1080p Plasma model shown at the IFA Show in Berlin last week. The newer "8UY" is due out soon, but the upcoming 1080p 65" Plasma is suppose to come out here sometime in the Spring 2006. At least this is my understanding of the release times. If I'm wrong, please somebody correct me.

I think the new Panny 65" 8UY you are ordering is NOT the 1080p model we are talking about here. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I'd check it out.

Thanks. Yeah, I'm well aware that this may not be the 1080p model. Any information I can get about any future model is what I'm trying to gather. Once all the stats and prices are, I could be ready to buy.

The newer "8UY" is due out soon, but the upcoming 1080p 65" Plasma is suppose to come out here sometime in the Spring 2006. At least this is my understanding of the release times. If I'm wrong, please somebody correct me.

That's also how I'm reading all the information we have so far. It's also my understanding that the latest 65 inch home/consumer version that is being released in the U.S. this fall is much more expensive than its Japanese counterpart, with the Japanese version being 1080p, while the U.S. version has less resolution. There is even some doubt whether a new consumer version will even make it to these shores this fall due to the production ability of the manufacturing plants and the supposedly high demand of the Japanese models in other countries. Is all this correct?

Captain Pike, how about a tiny update that lets us know you're alive and well? (If you didn't get any questions answered or any pictures, so be it.) Where you able to get into the show and view the TV?

cajieboy:

The only Spring release information for the consumer model that I know came from Rogo. Did you come by this information via another source? When is the commercial model comming out?

I think I may have gotten this info from some posts on the AV Forum in the UK. Some people over there were able to attend the IFA Show in Berlin and came back w/glowing reports of the Panny 65" 1080p model. I did read in Panny's own Press Release that they were introducing the 1080p model in Japan in Nov.2005, so a Spring 2006 release date for the USA does sound about right. There's been scant news on this panel & rumour abounds as Panny is keeping its cards close to the vest. I can only say w/ some confidence that this 65"er 1080p is for real (as opposed to a "Show Display" that never ships), and that we'll most likely have it here in the US in 2006.

OK Franchot, when I read your original post, it sounded like you were expecting the 65" 8UY to be 1080p. That's a no go. The 1080p model was only unveiled last week at IFA in Berlin, and is the REAL NEXT GENERATION of Plasma TV's. You may or may not want to be an "Early Adopter" of this latest TV Tech. There's so little info about the display, and I'm anxious to learn more, so it's a "wait & see" attitude. It is exciting news though.

No, cajieboy, you weren't wrong. I was expecting the new 8UK to be 1080p. I had misunderstood from other posts that Panasonic had gotten to the point where their next generation of sets would be 1080p with the 65 inchers being the starting point. After reading the following post on another thread, I'm still wondering if I'm even going to need a 1080p set. With no native content, what's the point?

CEDIA Expo Day 2 By Thomas J. Norton A lunchtime panel session on Blu-ray brought together representatives from three studios supporting the format: Fox, Disney, and Sony. The panel provided little new information. The members expressed the importance of new sorts of added features (including interactivity) to attract mass-market buyers; improved picture and sound, while very important, may not be enough by themselves to attract a market of the size required for long-term success. Despite PPV (and downloads—which were not addressed for obvious reasons!), the panelists expect packaged media to continue to be important in the marketplace. [Two key questions from the audience, however, were left essentially unanswered. They were: Will there be 1080p content from Blu-ray, and will we get full HD resolution from the component (not just the HDMI) output? The response to both questions was, in general, "That's still being studied/considered." That answer struck me as code-wording for either "we don't know," or "no, but we'd rather not discuss it in detail at this time."


I'm in no hurry to rush out and buy whatever shows up first. I'm also waiting for and looking at the the newest Lcos and DLP sets that are coming out this year. Like many others, I'm waiting to see how things shake out by the end of the year. If the price is right, the picture quality is of significant improvement, and the products aren't "buggy", I'll upgrade. If not, I'll be waiting for the next big thing (like many others.)

Thanks. Yeah, I'm well aware that this may not be the 1080p model. Any information I can get about any future model is what I'm trying to gather. Once all the stats and prices are, I could be ready to buy. get into the show and view the TV?


Franchot -

I'm pretty sure it's not 1080p unless things change at the last minute (possible but unlikely). The good news (potentially) is the TH-65HD8UK will have all the new (and hopefully improved) electronics that appear to be part of the consumer 65" 1080 (i.e. 14bit processing, etc.).

Here's a link to the Series 8 Brochure (http://www.plasmaconcepts.com/docs/prod_spec_408.pdf)

Other than the added resolution and (hopefully) native support for 1080p via HDMI/DVI, the 8UK looks promising.

Rob
rskinner@towbes.com

After reading the following post on another thread, I'm still wondering if I'm even going to need a 1080p set. With no native content, what's the point?
Even without native 1080p content the point still is that 1080i content looks better on a 1080p set than on a 720p set. And on a 65" sized display with a not too far viewing distance you'll probably be able to see the difference.

What lots of people miss is that 24p movies sent in 1080i60 format can quite easily be deinterlaced by decent deinterlacers to true 1080p without any loss.

please do not expect any answers before the weekend Sep. 10/11.


Should be here soon.

It's amazing how much potential information the Dear Captain may hold for the denizens of this forum.

Hopefully we'll see something from the Captain by Sunday. (This is getting nerve racking).

Was the consumer 65 present at CEDIA? Is that true that it won't be available in US this year? Please tell me when can I get this baby!

Sergio

Hello everybody.

I’m really sorry it took so long before I got back to you regarding my visits to the IFA, but time hasn’t been on my side lately (I haven’t even had time to watch Star Trek). Please accept my apologies.

I am currently writing my report. For those of you, who cannot wait any longer, here the main news, and be warned, it is not good news.

Panasonic did NOT show the TH-65PX500 or any of the other TH-xyPX500 models. They showed a prototype of the successor to the 65PX500. I was told that this prototype has the same 8th generation 1920x1080 panel as the 65PX500.

The TH-65PX500 has a progressive panel, but I was told that it does not accept 1080p input, only 1080i input. Its PEAKS (Picture Enhancement Accelerator with Kinetic System) panel drive circuit deinterlaces the 1080i signal and presents 1080p on the panel.

The prototype showed at IFA accepts 1080p input via DVI/HDMI and should be available both as a consumer and a commercial model sometime mid 2006. At the IFA they fed the prototype with 1080p material through its HDMI port. The material came off a hard disk.

PQ: Awesome, the best I have ever seen. I shot some 150-200 pictures of the prototype.

More information as soon as possible.

The prototype showed at IFA accepts 1080p input via DVI/HDMI and should be available both as a consumer and a commercial model sometime mid 2006. At the IFA they fed the prototype with 1080p material through its HDMI port. The material came off a hard disk.

PQ: Awesome, the best I have ever seen. I shot some 150-200 pictures of the prototype.
Actually that *IS* good news to me. The big question is: Is that mid 2006 release date for Japan only or is it world wide?

Edit: Are we talking about 1080p24 only, or about 1080p50/60, too?

Thanks Captain. I await your report. Bummer news on the 1080p HDMI input. Looks like the prototype is the real display worth waiting for.

Actually that *IS* good news to me. The big question is: Is that mid 2006 release date for Japan only or is it world wide?

Edit: Are we talking about 1080p24 only, or about 1080p50/60, too?

AiAi Capt'n Pike, we were about to overload the transducers on the Warp Overdrive! Actually, I agree w/Madshi, this ain't that bad of news from where I'm sitting. In fact, this is pretty much what I've glomed off the rumor mill in regards to prospective release dates for the real 1080p Panny 65"er. Looking forward to the detailed post. Did you get a chance to see the 1080p Pioneer 61"er?

Ok. I settle for the TH-65PX500 . I can't wait and I'm desperate for a 65 " plasma. Can you guys tell me when the TH-65PX500 will be available here in us? 1080p input would be nice but not mandatory in my case. Give me the TH-65PX500 now and I will be a happy camper.

Sergio

Actually that *IS* good news to me. The big question is: Is that mid 2006 release date for Japan only or is it world wide?

Edit: Are we talking about 1080p24 only, or about 1080p50/60, too?Japan and the US more or less simultaneously. Europe later in 2006.
No one knew for sure, but I wouldn't write off 1080p50/60. I talked with 3 of the 4 Japanese Panasonic managers at the IFA, one through an english/german <-> Japanese interpreter.



Did you get a chance to see the 1080p Pioneer 61"er?YES.
Both the consumer version PDP-615EX and the commercial version PDP-61MXE1. But both only have a 1365x768 resolution (not 1920x1080) and only accepts 1080i input, NO 1080p. I have a 4 page leaflet (in German, no English available) on the commercial version and the latest Pioneer catalogue (in German, no English available) with information on the consumer version PDP-615EX.

EDIT: European MSRPs: PDP-615EX = €12K ($14,5K), PDP-61MXE1 = €11,3K ($13,5K)


Ok. I settle for the TH-65PX500 . I can't wait and I'm desperate for a 65 " plasma. Can you guys tell me when the TH-65PX500 will be available here in us? 1080p input would be nice but not mandatory in my case. Give me the TH-65PX500 now and I will be a happy camper.

SergioShould be available in the US late 2005, early 2006. I was told that the production capacity is not a problem. Everything is driven by marketing, and the 3 Japanese Panasonic people I was able to speak with were all marketing people, hence I was not able to get answers on some of the more technical questions.


But all these side questions, only delay my complete report ;)

Thanks, Captain Pike, for your preliminary findings. I, also, am looking forward to your pictures and the more detailed report.

(And I guess, I'm also looking towards 2006 when the prototype is finalized and released because that set sounds like it will be "the bomb.")

Japan and the US more or less simultaneously. Europe later in 2006.
Bah! :mad: So probably not in time for the soccer world cup here in Germany...

Bah! :mad: So probably not in time for the soccer world cup here in Germany...I stressed the point in releasing the real HDTV (1920x1080) 1080p models in Europe for the soccer world cup, and it was noted!
One person I spoke with mentioned something about a panel only consumer version for Europe in Q2-2006, but then declined further comments. But this could very well be a misunderstanding due to problems communicating in English.

(And I guess, I'm also looking towards 2006 when the prototype is finalized and released because that set sounds like it will be "the bomb.")This is a bomb! I have never seen such skin tones on any plasma before. And since the skin belonged to some good looking women, I was really staring and paying attention :)

Thanks Capt. Pike and apologize for the side questions. More time for that later on. Now, please sail this ship home as I'm jonz'in for the info!:D

I stressed the point in releasing the real HDTV (1920x1080) 1080p models in Europe for the soccer world cup, and it was noted!
One person I spoke with mentioned something about a panel only consumer version for Europe in Q2-2006, but then declined further comments. But this could very well be a misunderstanding due to problems communicating in English.
Great - thanks for intervening for us poor Europeans! :)

Yay Captain Pike!

*starts pressing "refresh" button every 30 seconds*

wait so, am i missing the point but i fail to see why this is bad news?

I thought most of us were waiting for the commercial equivalent of the PX500, no? from what i read above, it seems the model that will be the next commercial will have 1080p support through HDMI and it will be 1080p, unlike the the 65PHD8UK thats still 720p.

i dont see what the bad news is...? isnt this what we wanted?

wait so, am i missing the point but i fail to see why this is bad news?

I thought most of us were waiting for the commercial equivalent of the PX500, no? from what i read above, it seems the model that will be the next commercial will have 1080p support through HDMI and it will be 1080p, unlike the the 65PHD8UK thats still 720p.

i dont see what the bad news is...? isnt this what we wanted?

Agreed. Not bad news. Some people like myself were couting on the next incarnation of accepting 1080p. Seems like the PX500 comming is a stepping stone to the next model with all the features people want.

The good news is that it's supposed to happen in 2006.

OK, so what I was told, in a nutshell, is this:

Panasonic --> 1080p model, 65 incher, possibly as early as March, with slippage somewhat likely

Pioneer --> 1080p model, 61 incher, almost certainly not until late summer

OK, so what I was told, in a nutshell, is this:

Panasonic --> 1080p model, 65 incher, possibly as early as March, with slippage somewhat likely
Is this the TH-65PX500 or is it the prototype shown at the IFA (the one that accepts 1080p etc)?

Pioneer --> 1080p model, 61 incher, almost certainly not until late summer
But Pioneer said they'd release a 1080p model in time for the soccer world cup, which is mid 2006. So does that mean their 1080p world cup plans were too optimistic?

Thank you!

I'm confused. People are now talking about 2 different animals. I am interested in the TH-65PX500 , the object of this thread. Any chance of having it available before year end?

Thanks

Sergio

slimoli:

Yes- the details are confusing but there seems to be two 1080p models comming out. One has been announced (TH-65PX500) and it does not accept a 1080p input signal (only 1080i).

However, CaptainPike apparently saw a 2006 demonstration model that is 1080p and will accept a 1080p input signal. There has been no press release on this yet.

Is there one or two models? Well stay tuned and things should get clearer...

Comparing the intelligence gathered by Captain
Pike and official press release from Panasonic
one wonders what the word LAUNCH means in
marketingspeak :confused: :

Osaka, Japan - Panasonic, the leading brand for
which Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. is
known, today announced it will launch the
world's first 65-inch 1080p (progressive) high
-definition (HD) plasma TV TH-65PX500 on November 1 ...

http://www.panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en050825-7/en050825-7.html

*refresh* *refresh* *refresh*

Oh the anticipation.

Then again, those of us waiting to see Captain Pike type out his full report do have to keep in mind his rather limiting condition:

http://homepage.mac.com/m5comp/trekbits/trekpics/menagerie/Menagerie_03.jpg

On thise page (scroll down around the half page, you can’t miss it) are pics of the 1080p 65“ panasonic panel from the IFA show.

Click on all 3 preview pisc in the row (the right one is a pic of the panel too).

http://www.aixess.de/ifa2005.html

This link was posted in a german AV forum

Click on all 3 preview pisc in the row (the right one is a pic of the panel too).This is NOT correct. Only the two leftmost pictures (woman's eye and red-something) are of the 1920x1080p Panasonic prototype.

Hey Captain Pike, what are your impressions about viewing distance with the 1080p 65" prototype? Thanks very much!

IFA report, part 1 of 2.

I was at the IFA on Friday Sep. 2nd, Monday Sep. 5th and Tuesday Sep. 6th.


Remember to go directly to Hall 26. ;)Lets start with Panasonic. They had their main boot in hall 5 and were not in hall 26 at all. The article regarding hall 26 is misleading. In hall 26 there were mostly no-name brands, general information about HDTV in Europe and pay TV companies planning to start sending HDTV later this year or next year.

Panasonic did NOT show the TH-65PX500 or any of the other TH-xyPX500 models.

The TH-65PX500 has a progressive panel, but I was told that it does not accept 1080p input, only 1080i input. Its PEAKS (Picture Enhancement Accelerator with Kinetic System) panel drive circuit deinterlaces the 1080i signal and presents 1080p on the panel.

The 65PX500 should be available in the US late 2005, early 2006. I was told that the production capacity is not a problem. Everything is driven by marketing, and the 3 Japanese Panasonic people I was able to speak with were all marketing people.

The PDPs that Panasonic really showed off at the IFA were the Europeans models TH-(65/50/42/37)PV500 in the VIERA series, all with 8th gen HD panels. The TH-65PV500 has a 1366x768 panel and is Europe HD ready (1080i/720p at 50/60Hz).


In a “corner” they showed a prototype of the successor to the 65PX500. I was told that this prototype had (almost) the same 8th generation panel as the 65PX500.

The prototype showed at IFA accepts native 1080i/p(50/60Hz) (other freqs were not confirmed) input via DVI/HDMI and should be available both as a consumer and a commercial model sometime mid (may-august) 2006. At the IFA they fed the prototype with native 1080p material through its HDMI port. The material came off a hard disk.

I asked if the consumer and commercial models based on the prototype would still have the 8th gen panel or the 9th gen panel. I was told that this is not decided yet. The Japanese Panasonic managers I spoke with, smiled :D, pointed at the prototype and asked: Isn’t this picture good enough? And believe me, it was stunning.

USEFUL INFORMATION?
I was given a hardcopy of this press release (http://www.panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en050825-7/en050825-7.html). The hardcopy lists the following Media Contacts:
Akira Kadota, International PR
Tel: 03-3578-1237
Fax: 03-3436-6766

Panasonic News Bureau
Tel: 03-3542-6205
Fax: 03-3542-9018

Just in case anyone feels up to the task and believes that any useful information can be obtained through these channels :)


Over the 3 days I were at the IFA, I probably spent close to 6-7 hours in the Panasonic boot and watched several shows, among other this one (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050903/ifa3_04.jpg).

I got the feeling that Panasonic was somewhat surprised an overwhelmed about the interest in the prototype and that people really want 1920x1080p displays and would not purchase a 65” 1366x768 display when they “soon” can get the Holy Grail. Hopefully this shortens the time to market for the prototype.


Now the questions.
On my first day at the IFA, I was only able to speak with a German person with the title “Technical Support, Marketing Communication” on his business card, but he told me that I would be better off asking some of the Japanese Panasonic people.

On the second and the third day I talked with 3 of the 4 Japanese Panasonic managers at the IFA, one through an english/german <-> Japanese interpreter, who’s AV technical knowledge unfortunately was not among the best. The 3 Japanese Panasonic people I spoke with were all marketing people, hence I was not able to get answers on the more technical questions.

2:
Q: Why does the commercial model TH-65PHD8UK only have a resolution of 1366x768 and not 1920x1080 like the consumer model TH-65PX500?
A: Since I have nothing to do with the commercial division, I can only speculate that this is either a marketing decision, or that they want to wait until they can offer native 1080p, which currently is still at the prototype state.

3:
Q: When will the TH-65PX500 be available in Germany and at what MSRP?
A: Probably never. We have just introduced the TH-65PV500 VIERA in Europe and the next 65” model to be introduced in Europe will likely be the one based on the prototype shown here.

5:
Q: When will the TH-65PX500 be available in the US and at what MSRP?
A: Late 2005, early 2006.

6:
Q: When will the TH-65PHD8UK be available in the US and at what MSRP?
A: Late 2005, early 2006.

15:
Q: When will a 50" PDP with 1920x1080p resolution be available?
A: As soon as we are able to manufacture one. This is solely a technical problem (getting the plasma cells small enough).

16:
Q: Will a size in between the 50" and 65" units be released, such as a 57" unit, which seems to work well on the 100" glass produced? If so, when? Will it be 1920x1080p?
A: UNLIKELY. If we by mid 2006 are not pretty sure that we by mid 2007 can produce a 50” 1920x1080p panel, but could make something like a 57” 1920x1080p panel, such a size could become an interim solution.

If they don't answer the questions, then please try at least to make clear that we do urgently want native resolution HDMI inputs with 24Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz. Thank you!I stressed this.


PROTOTYPE PQ:
First some short info regarding my visual faculty. I am a 48-year-old male and according to my physician, my visual faculty is above average for my age group :) For every day life I do not use any kind of glasses, except due to presbyopia, when I need to see really sharp at distances closer than 1 foot.

The material they showed was fed in native 1080p through the HDMI port. The material came off a hard disk and was likely specially created for showing on the prototype. It had scenes with flowers (CGI?), mountains, landscapes, green forests, trees, wine ranks, a bird, a beautiful Norwegian fjord (I am a native Viking :)), close ups of a woman’s face, make-up stuff, fruits, a longhaired Siamese cat running around, insects and music instruments.

Closer than 5-6 feet I was able to see the individual panel pixels. I found 9-10 feet to be an optimal viewing distance for me.

The PQ is awesome, the best I have ever seen. I have never seen such skin tones and picture depth on any plasma before. The black was massive black with no noise whatsoever. I was only able to see some very fine subtle noise in one special scene. This was a scene slowly panning lots of flowers (which could be CGI). The noise was only discernable in some of the red-orange colored flowers, not all of them.

There also was a scene with a longhaired Siamese cat running around. I can’t get rid of the feeling that the cat’s hairs could have been somewhat sharper, but the subtle lack of sharpness could be due to lacking depth of field in this scene. Anyway, this was lightyears better than the cats LG showed on their 71” 1920x1080 panel.

Also, if possible, it would be great if you could snap off a few pics of the displays & post them.Originally I though I would not be able to snap any pictures. Simply because I do not have a digital camera, since I never felt the need to have one. My cell phone does also not have a camera, because in the R&D facility where I work all kinds of cameras are banned.

But at the IFA Panasonic did lend out some of their new Lumix digital still cameras for free, for one hour at a time. So I borrowed one and shot some 150-200 pictures of the prototype, some of the Sharp 65" LCD and one of the Samsung 82” LCD.

The pictures don’t do the Panasonic prototype any kind of justice.

Good job CaptainPike. Good job. Thanks for the effort.

Many thanks Captain. You do a great service to all of us!

I don't know if you will be continuing your report, or whether you are just awaiting questions. But I have a couple:

[

There also was a scene with a longhaired Siamese cat running around. I can’t get rid of the feeling that the cat’s hairs could have been somewhat sharper, but the subtle lack of sharpness could be due to lacking depth of field in this scene. Anyway, this was lightyears better than the cats LG showed on their 71” 1920x1080 panel.



1. Aside from the scene with the softness noted above, did the 1080p Panasonic fullfill the promise of increased detail and clarity with HD signals? (That's a tough one, because even many non-1080p models look astoundingly clear, especially smaller displays).

2. How did it stack up against the competition, either other plasmas or other technologies you saw there?

3. I was going to ask if you'd ever seen the Panasonic 65" plasma before (the current lower-res model). That is because you comment on never having seen such depth in a plasma image before and I wondered whether it had as much to do with simply seeing such a large plasma image, which in of itself can be impressive. Then again, you note seeing other, larger plasmas at the show. And you still found the Panasonic 65" had greater depth?

4. I've always wanted to hear a report on the giant Samsung plasmas (102"/80"). A plasma that big sounds mind-blowing. If you saw them, can you comment on their picture quality? (I'm thinking of getting one to put over the jacuzzi
;) )

Thanks very much!

Thanks CaptainPike. Mid 2007 for the 50" if it is possible at all! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Thanks, Captain Pike, for your first installment. Excellent job. I'm looking forward to your next part and the pictures when you get the time.

With what I'm reading, I'm tempted to invest in the upcoming panels that are being released this fall. Two reasons are that my patience is being erroded with the lower prices and improvements to the panels so far. Other reasons are I'm wondering how much of an improvement I am going to be able to see on the next (Holy Grail) model, will it be in stores by the middle of 2006, and will there be any bugs/problems/incompatablities with a true 1080p set.

This is NOT correct. Only the two leftmost pictures (woman's eye and red-something) are of the 1920x1080p Panasonic prototype.

Yes, it is. It is just the wrong preview.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know if you will be continuing your report, or whether you are just awaiting questions. But I have a couple:I will continue with at least a 2nd part tomorrow on Sharp, Samsung, Toshiba SED and LG.


1. Aside from the scene with the softness noted above, did the 1080p Panasonic fullfill the promise of increased detail and clarity with HD signals? (That's a tough one, because even many non-1080p models look astoundingly clear, especially smaller displays).To answer this I think you would have to have a 65" 1366x768 and a 65" 1920x1080 side-by-side showing the exact same material. Panasonic had two or three TH-65PV500 at the IFA where they showed cuts from commercial movies like Mr. and Mrs. Smith, I Robot, etc. It all looked great, but I believe that the prototype showed more details. When looking at the landscapes they showed on the prototype, it was as if you could walk into them.


2. How did it stack up against the competition, either other plasmas or other technologies you saw there?The Panny prototype was in my opinion the winner. The Sharp 65" LCD and the Samsung 80" PDP are also very great and excellent panels. The LG 71" was a disappointment. More tomorrow.


3. I was going to ask if you'd ever seen the Panasonic 65" plasma before (the current lower-res model). That is because you comment on never having seen such depth in a plasma image before and I wondered whether it had as much to do with simply seeing such a large plasma image, which in of itself can be impressive. Then again, you note seeing other, larger plasmas at the show. And you still found the Panasonic 65" had greater depth?I have seen the Panasonic 65" (the current lower-res model) plasma before. Personally I think that the Panasonic 65" prototype had greater depth, but this could be due to lighting, setup, material showed, etc.


4. I've always wanted to hear a report on the giant Samsung plasmas (102"/80"). A plasma that big sounds mind-blowing. If you saw them, can you comment on their picture quality? (I'm thinking of getting one to put over the jacuzzi ;) )I saw both in March this year at CeBIT in Hannover and again now. Both are impressing. The 80" seemed more impressing now than I remembered it from March. Probably, because I was now able to see it with a greater viewing distance than last time. It will be released in Europe in October 2005 at a MSRP around €100K ($120K). I put my name and address and glued my private business card on a list over people requesting more information about the 80" PDP, so hopefully I will get something in the mail soon. I will then of course notify you. Unless you have a 10-12 feet high ceiling over your jacuzzi, I wouldn't recommend such a large panel. ;)

Yes, it is. It is just the wrong preview.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.You are correct. The preview is wrong.

good report, thanks for posting. seems strange why panasonic even bothered releasing a 65PHD8UK panel this year, esp since they are releasing a confirmed indistrual 1080p i/o panel next year.

Thanks again. Very intriguing. I look forward to your next installment.

Re the giant Samsung plasma:

Unless you have a 10-12 feet high ceiling over your jacuzzi, I wouldn't recommend such a large panel.

Just to be clear, I was kidding. ;)

VERY good and informative, Captain Pike, thanks very much!!

Honestly, when I read that by mid 2006 we might finally be able to get the Holy Grail with all the bells and whistles, I did let out a little shout of joy... :D

Earlier you mentioned something about an eventual "panel only" 1080p Plasma release for the soccer world cup. Is there any more information about that? I mean most of us are mainly interested in the commercial (= panel only) variation, anyway, so that sounds interesting...

Capt. Pike,

I know many were interested in the 6th generation Pioneers. I hope that you had a chance to see them and compare them to the Panny offerings. Could you please tell me what you thought?

Capt. Pike,

I know many were interested in the 6th generation Pioneers. I hope that you had a chance to see them and compare them to the Panny offerings. Could you please tell me what you thought?


what tomboyter said.

Capt. Pike,

I know many were interested in the 6th generation Pioneers. I hope that you had a chance to see them and compare them to the Panny offerings. Could you please tell me what you thought?I think I saw almost all PDP and LCD panels showed at the IFA, including all the ones from Pioneer. I got the latest Pioneer catalogue (in German, no English available) in case you need any technical info.

What do I personally think about the 6th generation Pioneers? Great panels. IMHO close to the Pannys, but only close. Panasonic PDPs are my personal favorites, espacially the prototype shown.

So why would Panasonic make an announcement in August about a brand spank'in new 1080p panel due out in November then a few weeks later not demo it, but rather show a prototype for something unannounced and is at least nine months away?

hey, did you by chance know how much power it uses? panasonic 65 prototype i mean.

i fear a panel this large will be a large heat source in anyone's living room... much like projectors are. did you feel a lot of heat when you were next to it?

I have to tell you all that in the U.S. at CEDIA Panasonic reps were not sanguine about the 1080p this uear at all. It was more like late Q1 or into Q2.

On thise page (scroll down around the half page, you can’t miss it) are pics of the 1080p 65“ panasonic panel from the IFA show.

Click on all 3 preview pisc in the row (the right one is a pic of the panel too).

http://www.aixess.de/ifa2005.html

This link was posted in a german AV forum


As I was scrolling through the pictures I was particularly blown away by

This Screen Shot Here! (http://www.aixess.de/ifa/0879.JPG)

I was thinking "That looks amazing. What is it? An SED prototype or something?"

Turns out it's just some flavor of Panasonic plasma - looks like a 42" HD model or something. Quite impressive.

I also note that some of the LCDs look quite impressive too. I think their lack of glare/reflections really helps make it easier to capture clean-looking, vivid screen shots.

I'm looking forward to the Captain's photos.

lets hope panasonic doesnt do something crazy with the msrp for the 1080p panels so that it goes again out of reach for most of us...

hey, did you by chance know how much power it uses? panasonic 65 prototype i mean. i fear a panel this large will be a large heat source in anyone's living room... much like projectors are. did you feel a lot of heat when you were next to it?

Information about power consumption is given
in the official press release:

http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en050825-7/en050825-7.html

While loaded with advanced features, the TH-65PX500 consumes
26 percent less power per year
compared to the preceding 65-inch HD plasma display TH-65DX300.

IF this means 26 percent less power/hour it is just
incredbile number. Sharp 65" LCD has almost same power consumption as the TH-65DX300 and
the T65PX500 has 26% less meaning it is about 450 W.

Beating LCD on power consumption is phenomenal.
450W is not low in general terms but amazingly low
compared to other displays in this size range.

yeah well thats all fine and good for the px500 but i think now the focus is more in its predecessor.

i think many of us have ruled out the px500 has it doesnt accept 1080p (probably not even 720p). the question now is what kind of new stats and MSRP will apply to the successor to this panel... that hasnt even been out yet.

i was really inquiring about that, although i suspect it will be equal to or better than the PX500 in terms of power consumption.

Earlier you mentioned something about an eventual "panel only" 1080p Plasma release for the soccer world cup. Is there any more information about that? I mean most of us are mainly interested in the commercial (= panel only) variation, anyway, so that sounds interesting...Sorry, but I don’t have any more information than what I already have written.

Personally I think this was a misphrasing/misunderstanding due to imperfect English on all parts. Neither English nor German is my native tongue.

But based on the HDTV situation in Europe, a panel only consumer version for Europe would IMHO make sense.

What is the current HDTV situation in Europe? Virtually no HDTV broadcasting at all. BBC for instance plans to do HDTV sometime 2009/2010.


Over Sattelite: Test broadcasts. Some pay TV companies plan to start regular HDTV broadcasts late 2005 or sometime in 2006.
Over Air: NONE.
Over Cable: NONE. The cable operators so far haven’t been able to agree on necessary standards.

Hence a HDTV set with a built-in tuner cannot be built and a satellite tuner (DVB-S) doesn’t make sense since everyone that has a satellite dish already has a DVB-S tuner. Therefore, for everyone that has DVB-S a panel only consumer version (with speakers) would make sense.



So why would Panasonic make an announcement in August about a brand spank'in new 1080p panel due out in November then a few weeks later not demo it, but rather show a prototype for something unannounced and is at least nine months away?As we say up in Scandinavia: “One fool can ask more questions than 10 wise persons can answer” ;)

They now probably have different product cycles on different continents. In late August, just in time for the IFA, Panasonic brought out their new 8th gen HD panel based 65” 1366x768 TH-65PV500 flagship TV in Europe. Therefore showing the TH-65PX500 at IFA could hamper sales, hence the prototype.

Aside from that many marketing people believe that European consumers are not that interested in TRUE HDTV sets (1920x1080), since there are virtually no HDTV broadcasts in Europe. I had this discussion with several marketing people at the IFA, that wouldn’t comprehend why I wanted a TRUE HD (TV) set/panel since there yet are no HD television being broadcast here. They had a hard time believing that I only wanted to watch DVDs and on average only watch 20 minutes TV a day and then news.

God forbid me watching Hollywood movies, US TV-series or Start Trek lip-synced in German. :eek:



hey, did you by chance know how much power it uses? panasonic 65 prototype i mean.I was told somewhat the same as the TH-65PX500, but since we don’t have any figures on the TH-65PX500, this really doesn’t help ;)

This press release (http://www.panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en050825-7/en050825-7.html) states:
“While loaded with advanced features, the TH-65PX500 consumes 26 percent less power per year compared to the preceding 65-inch HD plasma display TH-65DX300.”

Assuming that the TH-65DX300 has the same panel as the new European TH-65PV500, which according to the Panasonic catalogue I got at the IFA consumes approx. 640 Watt, higher calculus yields approx. 474 Watt :)

Why not give Mr. Kadota, Panasonic International PR Department, a call at +81-3-3578-1237? I’m sure he’ll be happy to answer any questions.

i fear a panel this large will be a large heat source in anyone's living room... much like projectors are. did you feel a lot of heat when you were next to it?NOPE.

In fact next to nothing, and I had hoped it would really be a large heat source in my living room, so that I through the long dark and cold winters over here could watch all my +250 Star Trek DVDs without turning on the radiator ;)

@Captain Pike, I agree with what you said. Apart from this:

What is the current HDTV situation in Europe? Virtually no HDTV broadcasting at all.
In Germany Pro7 and Sat1 (two important channels) will begin free HDTV broadcasting in October:

http://www.prosiebensat1.de/pressezentrum/prosiebensat1mediaag/2005/08/30/18464/

Only via SAT, though. Pay TV broadcasting will begin in November, also only via SAT at first. But pay TV broadcasting will come over cable in time for the soccer word cup.

@madsi:
Thanks for the info.

At the IFA Pioneer showed the HDTV broadcasts from Pro7 and Sat1 on 10-15 panels, but I wasn't aware that the official start was this close. Since I don't have a satellite dish and don't plan on getting one, I really haven’t bothered paying attention.

At the IFA it was doubted that the cable operators would agree on the necessary standards in time for getting the necessary hardware (tuners) ready for the soccer word cup. But it sure should put pressure on them.

According to the following link the 65PX300 took 635 Watts (the th-65PHD7UY and the Onyx version take 695 Watts each) while the new 65PX500 takes 745 Watts. The power requirement actually increased. I don't know what Panasonic is talking about.

http://panasonic.jp/viera/dl/pdf_file/th_65px500.pdf

http://panasonic.jp/viera/dl/pdf_file/th_65dx300.pdf

"Power per year" is a ridiculous parameter for anything that is not left on continuously (like a refrigerator). Even if it was more EFFICIENT, it would still consume more power per year, cuz I'd be watching it more! :D

More Ifa news and pictures. (http://news.designtechnica.com/print_featured_article30.html)Panasonic also announced the introduction of a 65-inch 1080p plasma TV for the Japanese market. Plans haven’t been disclosed for the U.S., although typical product cycles point to a U.S. introduction at the International Consumer Electronics Show in January.

A Twist Electric Lift (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/04/business/elec05.php) for your new big flat panel?Starting at 1,599, or $2,000, the Twist silently raises the largest LCD screen 67.5 centimeters, or 26.5 inches, and swivels it 30 degrees

What is the current HDTV situation in Europe? Virtually no HDTV broadcasting at all.

As we say up in Scandinavia: “One fool can ask more questions than 10 wise persons can answer” ;)
Aside from that many marketing people believe that European consumers are not that interested in TRUE HDTV sets (1920x1080), since there are virtually no HDTV broadcasts in Europe. I had this discussion with several marketing people at the IFA, that wouldn’t comprehend why I wanted a TRUE HD (TV) set/panel since there yet are no HD television being broadcast here.

Captain, you are too pessimistic in your views about HDTV
in Europe. The situation is that it is just
on the threshold of ignition and in quite big way
for that matter:

There is already the HD1 channel from Astra, rather modest but still something to watch

In Germany two broadcasters (Pro7, Premiere) start this fall

In UK, Sky will definitely launch beginning next year

In France there are preparations ongoing for launch
in 2006

In Scandinavia, you might not be aware of it, but broadcasting of movies in HD started this month:

http://www.canalplus.no/minisite/eight_no/hd.asp

It is marketed only for Norway now, but soon it
should be available for all Nordic countries since
Canal plus broadcasts same movie content with different subtitle tracks.

So 2006 will be the year of starting HD in major European markets. It it is in a way good
that this will
converge with the introduction of true and genuine HD panels @1920x1080 :D :D :D.
We shall leapforg folks in other parts of the world who had to suffer poor
imitations @1366x768 or even less :p

We shall leapforg folks in other parts of the world who had to suffer poor
imitations @1366x768 or even less :p

Yeah, it was real painful to watch HD at 768p (or even less) for the past 6 years or so in the US.... :rolleyes:

yeah well thats all fine and good for the px500 but i think now the focus is more in its predecessor.

i think many of us have ruled out the px500 has it doesnt accept 1080p (probably not even 720p). the question now is what kind of new stats and MSRP will apply to the successor to this panel... that hasnt even been out yet.

i was really inquiring about that, although i suspect it will be equal to or better than the PX500 in terms of power consumption.

Don't you really mean the successor to the px500? ;)

Yeah, it was real painful to watch HD at 768p (or even less) for the past 6 years or so in the US.... :rolleyes:

Yeah, it was dreadful watching all those HDTV football games over this past weekend in its inferior HD resolution. How I could bare to watch TV is beyond me.

Yeah, it was dreadful watching all those HDTV football games over this past weekend in its inferior HD resolution. How I could bare to watch TV is beyond me.

Oh the Pain, the Pain...

There was a time, that I thought I could live without 1080P :)

-- Rich

This was posted by someone in the Pioneer 6gen info thread, reporting about what he saw at the CEDIA show. I don't think he's talking about the new model, but what the hey...

The new consumer 61" Pioneer (PDP-6100HD) was also on display. I thought that it looked great, and I prefer the PQ over the 614MX and consider it to be about equal to or superior in some areas to the PRO 1420, although not cosmetically. And in no way should this be construed as a comparison to the 65" Panasonic Onyx.

Speaking of 65" Onyx, it was on display at the Panasonic booth. (even though I saw it a CES last year, at that time I was not able to evaluate its PQ, due to its placement at about 18' off the floor). This time I was able to get up close and personal, and wow, hands down, the best plasma PQ that I have had the pleasure to drool at. Now In all fairness, the content was of a pale white chick with blonde hair, a white blouse, singing against a totally black background. But still, wow!

So, that begs the question, if and when most flat panels (and TVs) become 1920x1080, will ABC and ESPN switch to 1080i?

No, no. Their 1280x720@60p stuff will be upconverted on the receiving side by a very simple 3:2 scaler to the 1920x1080@60p bringing them very close to the 1080p holy grail on the 1080p displays. They will be also able to enjoy full 1080i HD on their displays and evaluate PQ from both sources :D .

The 60p format has considerable advantages in fast moving scenes. The 1920 system has potential advantage of higher resolution but at least in TV this is not realized since pictures are filtered horizontally down to the equivalent of 1440 before compression. Perhaps in the HD-DVD the full potential of 1920 will be used.

@ irkuck:

I don't think I'm that pessimistic. As most real Vikings, I'm usually quite the cheery fella. :D:p:D

I was trying to describe the situation today (Sep. 2005). I know that 2006 might be the year HDTV starts in major European markets. But which sane person would want to watch 1080i material on a 1366x768 or smaller resolution panel?

For those of you who are waiting for my IFA report, part 2 of 2. today looks like a good day.
'Til later.

I know that 2006 might be the year HDTV starts in major European markets. But which sane person would want to watch 1080i material on a 1366x768 or smaller resolution panel?


Captain, HDTV will definitely start in Europe in 2006. Compression equipment is bought, set-top boxes are ordered, launch dates are fixed. What is interesting, HD in Europe will be based on the new MPEG-4/H.264 standard which is much improved over the old MPEG-2.

The only unknown is how long will be the lines of consumers ready to plunk €€€€€ for the freshly minted genuinely true 1080p displays :D

I bet the HD in Europe will produce a MUCH better picture than our hiper-compressed cable/satellite system in US. I lived in UK for some time and the SD picture I had from Sky satellite was comparable to our HBO HD. Eurpeans don't have to flood their systems with 2500 locals and more than 1000 religious channels.

Sergio

I bet the HD in Europe will produce a MUCH better picture than our hiper-compressed cable/satellite system in US. I lived in UK for some time and the SD picture I had from Sky satellite was comparable to our HBO HD. Eurpeans don't have to flood their systems with 2500 locals and more than 1000 religious channels.

Sergio

I'll pass on your flamebait religious channel comment, but will say this:

I am not surprised that a clean digital PAL signal (576p) looks a hell of a lot better than highly compressed HD-lite.

I see it everyday on my display.

My PAL DVDs (deinterlaced by my Skyworth DVD player) look better than most HD-lite OTA US programming.

Captain Pike,

You mentioned that you took lots of pictures (of the Panasonic 65" model and I assume other displays). Will you be posting any of them? I'd enjoy checking them out.

Don't you really mean the successor to the px500? ;)



thanks alot ass, i mean assjack. i said it right the second time lazy to go back and edit.

anyway.. wtf happened to Captain Pike's day two report and pics? I just ordered an ipod nano, so that will keep me busy for about 2 weeks before my attention again focuses on this thread....

I'm sure that Capt'in will come through shortly.

I also, keep comming back to this thread, but since my bubble has been burst I don't know why. It's going to be a long wait (9 - 12 months) for the 1080p display to come out that accepts 1080p input. Hopefully, I will have it up and running before NEXT football season.

(Perhaps Panny needs someone to beta test the display...)

I'm with you. Hopefully I will have this bad boy on the wall for NEXT football season!

IFA report, part 2 of 2.

As I wrote in a previous posting I think I saw almost all PDP and LCD panels showed at the IFA. When it comes to other brands than Panasonic, I did not spend anywhere close to the time and effort trying to obtain information as I did with Panasonic. Anyway, here some information and my personal PQ impressions.


Do not forget to compare the Panny with the Sharp 65" LCD: same size, same resolution ;).
They will not be placed side-by-side showing the same content but still PQ impressions might be useful.QUOTE][QUOTE=wojtek]Yep.
Better hope that Sharp will have a $5,000 better picture, cuz that's the reported MSRP difference.... ;)
Sharp really showed off their new 65" 1920x1080 LCD baby. Here in Europe called LC-65GD1E. They had some 10 panels placed around in their booth. The German MSRP is €19K ($23K)

Sharp 65" LCD 1920x1080 PQ:
I was told that it has a progressive panel and would accept 1080p input over its DVI/HDMI inputs, but that they were only feeding 1080i material since they had no way of feeding 1080p material, hence I doubt the ability to accept 1080p input. Also see here (http://www.sharp.ch/uploadedFiles/pdb_lc65gd1e_d.pdf). Here the power consumption is stated to be 550W.

The materials they showed were quite different from Panasonic. Mostly: buildings, sculptures, statues, paintings, fields and people, hence difficult to compare.

Closer than 5-6 feet I was able to see the individual panel pixels. I found 9-10 feet to be an optimal viewing distance for me.

The PQ is excellent with superb skin tones and I was unable to detect any motion blur. However in many scenes there were some fine subtle noise in parts of the picture, but I really had to concentrate to see this noise. To me large uniformly colored areas didn't seem as vivid and plastic and to have as much picture dept as on the Panny prototype. Black areas were really solid black without any noise.



Samsung showed off all their LCD and PDP panels. The only two PDP panels with 1920x1080 resolution were the 80" and 102" panels. The third largest PDP panel Samsung showed was a 63" 1366x768 panel at a MSRP of €11K ($13.2K).

I saw both the 80" and 102" panels for the first time in March this year at CeBIT in Hanover. Both are impressing panels considering the size. The 80" seemed more impressing now than I remembered it from March. Probably, because I was now able to see it with a greater viewing distance than last time.

The 80" panel will be sold in Europe from October 2005 at a MSRP around €100K ($120K). I put my name and address and glued my private business card on a list over people requesting more information about the 80" PDP, so hopefully I will get something in the mail soon. I will then of course notify you.

I also took a closer look at their two 82" and 57" LCD panels, both with a 1920x1080 resolution.


Samsung 80" PDP 1920x1080 PQ:
I was told that it has a progressive panel and would accept 1080p input over its DVI input, but that they were only feeding 1080i material since they had no way of feeding 1080p material, hence I doubt the ability to accept 1080p input.

Closer than 5-6 feet I was able to see the individual panel pixels. I found 9-10 feet to be a good viewing distance for me. What still intrigues me is that at approx. 5-6 feet it was slightly harder seeing the individual panel pixels on the Samsung 80" PDP than on the Panasonic prototype.

The materials they shown were unsuitable for evaluating the PQ quality. They showed the following:

1)
Some 10 minutes from the "Toto: 25th Anniversary - Live in Amsterdam" (indoor from what I could see).

2)
Three scenes from "LotR, The Fellowship of the Ring":

A: Scene from the battle in 3434 of the Second Age between Men and Elves against the armies of Mordor on the slopes of Mount Doom where Isildur cuts off the fingers on Sauron’s right hand (approx. 75 seconds).

B: Scene where Arwen on horseback with Frodo makes the river swallow 8 Ring Wraiths and their horses (approx. 30 seconds).

C: Scene on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm where Gandalf fights the Balrog, says "you shall not pass!", destroys the bridge and the Balrog with his whip sweeps Gandalf with him into the abyss (approx. 45 seconds).

3)
Two scenes from "I, Robot":

A: Scene in the highway-tunnel where Detective Spooner in his car is attached by a bunch of V.I.K.I. controlled NS-5 Robots (approx. 120 seconds).

B: The scene where V.I.K.I. is shut down with an injection of nanites and V.I.K.I. controlled NS-5 Robots try to prevent it (approx. 180 seconds).

The scenes from the two movies are mostly fast paced action and don’t have lot of vivid colors, mostly gray, silver, black and brown tones. But it looked good and natural. Yesterday evening I watch the above scenes from "LotR" and "I, Robot" on my good old CRT television, and they seemed more vivid and sharper there than what I remember seeing on the Samsung 80" PDP, although with somewhat less details than on the large 80" PDP.


Samsung 102" PDP 1920x1080 PQ:
The PQ is comparable to that of the 80". At CeBIT in Hanover they showed materials more suitable for PQ evaluation and as far as I remember it is really god. What of course knocks you of your feet is the sheer size of this panel. At a 12 feet viewing distance this 226x127 centimeter (89x50 inch) panel really turns your living room into your private cinema. But I assume that the electricity bill isn’t as pleasant :D


Samsung 82" LCD 1920x1080 PQ:
The PQ is good for such a large LCD, but seems more grainy and noisy when compared with the Samsung 80" PDP.


Samsung 57" LCD 1920x1080 PQ:
Here they showed the exact same material as on the 80" PDP panel. On the 80" PDP panel the picture is more natural than on the 57" LCD, especially skin tones.



LG especially promoted their 71" PDP in gold plated casing. On this one they showed a concert with the group Destiny’s Child. Due to barriers I wasn’t able to get close enough to really get a good enough look for making a meaningful PQ evaluation.

On another 71" PDP they showed more standard material with lots of cats and dogs. Personally, I found the picture too soft and diffuse. The colors were good. My personal guess is that they showed SD material up-scaled by the panel. To be candid, if I was the LG manager responsible for IFA, I would have shown material putting this panel in a more favorable light.

I also saw the 71" PDP panel in March this year at CeBIT in Hanover. Also then I wasn’t especially impressed, but in memory I have a better impression of the panel than what I got at the IFA. At CeBIT LG in a separate room with a complete home theater system showed the complete movie "The Last Samurai" on the gold 71" PDP and I watch about 30 minutes alone at some 9 feet distance. According to my memory this looked quite good and was a pleasing experience.



Then finally, as the ultimate flat screen panel much appraised
Toshiba SED

This was a huge massive disappointment, NOT the SED PANEL, but the fact that I was not allowed to see it.

In advance of the IFA, it was rumored that the production of SED panels should start in August, and that some panels would be shown at the IFA. The latter was in forefront of the IFA confirmed by Toshiba.

Then at the IFA they only had the same prototype panel that was showed at the last CES and only accredited journalists and selected dealers were allowed to see it. My personal interpretation is that they are way behind schedule.

I went by the Toshiba booth several times and asked if I could see the SED panel. Every time I was told that every scheduled presentation was fully booked out.

So I went by the Toshiba booth at 17:30 on Tuesday Sep. 6th, just 30 minutes before the fair closed that day, and saw that only a handful persons were waiting to see this days last SED presentation in a room with some 25 seats. So I again asked very kindly and said PLEASE. But was told that no ordinary visitors were admitted.

They even had the guts to ask me why I wanted to see something that I at the earliest could purchase in 2 years?

Toshiba !!! ..... As a (valued) potential customer I am really pissed of by such an attitude. For quite some time I have been planning and designing my new high-end home theater and I have carefully selected every component to have in it. I have also saved up some $45K of spending money, so that I can get exactly what I want. Will there be any Toshiba components in my new home theater? Definitely not! Not that I was planning to have any there, except for a possible SED display. But since this probably grossly over-evaluated SED panel will at best be available in 2-3 years; Forget it!



Then the big question. Which one of the flat panels at the IFA is my favorite?

If they when I came the last day had told me: "Congratulations Sir, you are visitor number 1,000,000. Hence you may choose any one of the flat panels shown here to take with you home. Which one should I have packed in for you Sir?"
I would have said: "Thank you very much, I’ll take the Panasonic 65" PDP prototype."

I think I can sing along with Janice Joplin:
"Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Panny 9th gen 65" 1920x1080p PDP with HDMI progressive input ....."

I don’t need a Mercedes Benz. I’ve already got a much better BMW :D

Captain, thanks again, your work is greatly appreciated!

It's interesting about seeing pixels, even on the Panny 65" (6 feet or closer). Whereas on the Sony 006 Qualia RPTV you have to get even closer. This would be the "fill factor" effect of course - with the qualia having reduced the fill factor to a greater degree than any current plasma (even the 1080p plasma, from your report).

I remember the whole fill factor thing was brought to my attention several years ago when Panasonic brought out it's 42" HD model. I had expected to be able to get quite close and not see any pixel structure, but I noticed that I could still see it. It wasn't a "I can get right up to the display and not see pixels" thing. It was more like I could move just a few feet closer and not be bothered by the pixel structure - but the fill factor didn't seem to have been reduced to any amazing degree, which is why I could still make out pixels on the display.

I'm quite sure the Panny 65" will look perfectly smooth from any sane viewing distance.

Did you look at any rear-projection micro-displays that impressed you? Or projectors?

BTW, will we be seeing any of your pictures?

Thanks again.

Thanks, Captain Pike!

I also found it interesting that you didn't want to go nearer the 65" LCD, either. I thought LCD had a better fill factor than Plasma...

Too bad Pioneer had no 1080p prototype on display. I'd really have loved to hear your report about that, too!

Rich H,

I'm aware that everybody here is restless waiting for information ;)

So I am really sorry that my two IFA reports took that much longer than anticipated, but my workload varies a lot and was the last two weeks certainly a lot more than 9-5. It also takes a little more than 10 minutes to write these kinds of reports :)

At the IFA I shot a total of 342 pictures (604MB) with a camera I have never used before. I couldn’t use the flashlight (took a little before I found out how to turn it off) so the shutter time was long, hence not all pictures are as sharp as I hoped.

The pictures distribute as follows:
Panny prototype:  261.
Sharp 65" LCD:     72.
Samsung 82" LCD:    2.
Samsung 80" PDP:    5.
Samsung 102" PDP:   2.

Personally have no homepage to where I can upload them. I can offer you the following two options:

1) I can email you all the pictures in any chunks you want (max 25MB) and you can do with them as you please. This is my preferred option.

2) I can try to select the 10-20 best pictures of the Panny prototype and the Sharp 65" LCD and email you those, but this could take a couple of days.

If you prefer, you are welcome to email me.



Did you look at any rear-projection micro-displays that impressed you? Or projectors?NO, is of no interest to me. I only want a big really god flat panel.

[QUOTE=Captain Pike]Rich H,

I'm aware that everybody here is restless waiting for information ;)

So I am really sorry that my two IFA reports took that much longer than anticipated, but my workload varies a lot and was the last two weeks certainly a lot more than 9-5. It also takes a little more than 10 minutes to write these kinds of reports :)

At the IFA I shot a total of 342 pictures (604MB) with a camera I have never used before. I couldn’t use the flashlight (took a little before I found out how to turn it off) so the shutter time was long, hence not all pictures are as sharp as I hoped.

The pictures distribute as follows:
Panny prototype: 261.
Sharp 65" LCD: 72.
Samsung 82" LCD: 2.
Samsung 80" PDP: 5.
Samsung 102" PDP: 2.

Personally have no homepage to where I can upload them. I can offer you the following two options:

1) I can email you all the pictures in any chunks you want (max 25MB) and you can do with them as you please. This is my preferred option.

2) I can try to select the 10-20 best pictures of the Panny prototype and the Sharp 65" LCD and email you those, but this could take a couple of days.

If you prefer, you are welcome to email me.


Cap'n Pike,

Can you use the default Windows photo Manager to compress the .jpg files. I just converted 95 MB of 7.2 Mpixel pictures down to 13MB.

DEFman

Cap'n Pike,

Can you use the default Windows photo Manager to compress the .jpg files. I just converted 95 MB of 7.2 Mpixel pictures down to 13MB.

DEFmanI have a program called "Microsoft Photo Editor", but I cannot find any compression options. Please give more details.

It's called "Microsoft Office Picture Manager".
I think in in XP only, 2000.
Go to:
- Start
- All Programs
- Microsoft Office
- Microsoft Office Tools
- Microsoft Office Picture Manager

On the right hand side of the opening screen should be an "Edit" feature.
Click on it, and one of the choices its "compression".
You may have to have at least one photo open to enable this.
You then use the "View" menu and select "Thumbnails" to show all photos.
Select all of the pictures that you want reduced and choose "Compress Pictures".

Note: You may want to backup the originals in another directory, because when you save these, Windows will automatically overwrite them with the compressed version.

Hope this helps.

DEFman

Thanks,

I found the "Microsoft Office Picture Manager" and it works as you described.
I loaded up 10 pictures having 22,1MB

I have the following 3 compression options (free translated from German):
Compress for a document to 3,71MB
Compress for a webpage to 728KB
Compress for an email to 93KB

Since jpg pictures already are 100% compressed, the compression with "Microsoft Office Picture Manager" would probably greatly reduce the picture quality, and I don't think this is a good idea.

If email isn't an option, I have no problem burning all the pictures (in separate folders for each panel) onto a CD and send it with airmail to one of you. Should take less than a week. You old guys in the forum among yourself just have to figure to whom.

Thanks, Captain Pike!
I also found it interesting that you didn't want to go nearer the 65" LCD, either. I thought LCD had a better fill factor than Plasma...


Yes, this is very interesting: Has Sharp enlarged the panel size by increasing the spacing between the pixels????

In this respect it would be also interesting to compare it with the Samsung 82" LCD. This panel
has two driving transistors per pixel which implies
bigger pixels which may mean normal pixel spacing.

Another point is stratospheirc pricing of those mamooth panels:

Sharp 65" LCD - 19 k€
Samsung 80" PDP - 100k€

So guess how much would be

Samsung 82" LCD - 120 k€????

But then

Samsung 102" PDP - 1 mln € ?????

The only hope is that Panasonic will show them
realistic price levels with their 65" 1080p.
If it cost will be closer to 10 k€ then obviously the other guys can not be far from it.

Thanks, Captain Pike, for all the time, money, and effort you've put in so far with your visits to the exhibition and your follow-up reports. It's very much appreciated by me and, I'm sure, many others on this forum whether they post regularly or not.

With no 65 inch Panasonic 1080p through HDMI in the immediate future, the wind has been taken out of my sails for the time being. I'll have to wait and see what the pricing is going to be like on the new models being released this fall. If the price drop is not really drastic, it seems the best strategy is to just wait until next year when the "Holy Grail" set gets released--the price of plasmas will continue to decline, the quality will continue to improve, and my bank account will continue to accrue interest.

The Samsung 80-inch plasma is going to be hand built if it's built at all. They have no plasma like with a glass piece that cuts logically into 80s.

This is ironic, but they could sell the 102" for less money than the 80. It's just an unrealistic size to transport reliably.

The Panasonic will be a standard consumer product and will be priced accordingly. A non-Onyx model of the 1080p will be <$10,000 before 2006 is over.

Minor note: It appears Panasonic has already phased out the current 1366 x 768 res 65" industrial ("UY") plasma. I was told by AVdeals.ca that they can't get them anymore and are awaiting pricing on the new 1080p models.

Minor note: It appears Panasonic has already phased out the current 1366 x 768 res 65" industrial ("UY") plasma. I was told by AVdeals.ca that they can't get them anymore and are awaiting pricing on the new 1080p models.


I'm not sure that's 100% accurate unless Panasonic has decided to abandon the 65" 8UK which, based upon the company's brochure, indicates that panel uses the lower resolution panel with what appears to be the newer electronics.

Rob
rskinner@towbes.com

"Minor note: It appears Panasonic has already phased out the current 1366 x 768 res 65" industrial ("UY") plasma. I was told by AVdeals.ca that they can't get them anymore and are awaiting pricing on the new 1080p models."

Really? Can someone please try to confirm this before I go buy a 45 or 50? Seriously!

"Minor note: It appears Panasonic has already phased out the current 1366 x 768 res 65" industrial ("UY") plasma. I was told by AVdeals.ca that they can't get them anymore and are awaiting pricing on the new 1080p models."

Really? Can someone please try to confirm this before I go buy a 45 or 50? Seriously!

I can't confirm it of course. But AVdeals had been selling the 7UY version of the 65" but said there were no more and that they can no longer get it from Panasonic. They said they were awaiting the release/pricing of the 1080p model. I'll be talking to my local supplier of industrial plasmas (they sell a lot of Pannys) and maybe they can corroborate.

"Minor note: It appears Panasonic has already phased out the current 1366 x 768 res 65" industrial ("UY") plasma. I was told by AVdeals.ca that they can't get them anymore and are awaiting pricing on the new 1080p models."

Really? Can someone please try to confirm this before I go buy a 45 or 50? Seriously!

Itching to buy a 65 inch UY plasma at a close-out price, Rogo? Do tell us if you go that route. Some of us may just follow your lead. ;)

Thanks a million Capt. Pike, and I greatly appreciated all the time and effort you spent gathering the latest info @IFA. The SED panels have perked my interests too, but in reality this is unproven video tech w/models scheduled to arrive at some unknown time in the future. Plasma, on the other hand, has been around for a number of years & cycles, and even though 1080p is new to these panels, I think Plasma will remain as the top choice for a number of years to come for their proven tech & PQ.. I do know that the 60+" displays will be the cats' pajamas for me, and am looking forward to checking out the new displays in this size. Hope to see some of your pics.

Sooo, I'm BACK to "Plan A", for my HT upgrade, and Plasma fever has subsided again. Even though I got really excited about the possibility of jumping on "Plan B" w/video tech increasing faster than expected, in the end all is where it is suppose to be in the Video World, and I am sane again....for the time being, anyway.

Itching to buy a 65 inch UY plasma at a close-out price, Rogo? Do tell us if you go that route. Some of us may just follow your lead. ;)

No, I'm itching to buy something I will keep for several years. And for all the many irrational reasons out there, that something would have to be 1080p.

I can't confirm it of course. But AVdeals had been selling the 7UY version of the 65" but said there were no more and that they can no longer get it from Panasonic. They said they were awaiting the release/pricing of the 1080p model. I'll be talking to my local supplier of industrial plasmas (they sell a lot of Pannys) and maybe they can corroborate.
I find that strange. The commercial 65PHD8UY is already officially documented to still have 768p, unless I'm very much mistaken. I believe there'll be a consumer 1080p Panasonic in the end of this year, but no commercial. Surely the 65PHD7UY is being phased out because the 65PHD8UY is coming along (but still with 768p)?

I find that strange. The commercial 65PHD8UY is already officially documented to still have 768p, unless I'm very much mistaken. I believe there'll be a consumer 1080p Panasonic in the end of this year, but no commercial. Surely the 65PHD7UY is being phased out because the 65PHD8UY is coming along (but still with 768p)?

That's how I understand the current state of affairs as well. That said, things might change but that seems strange to me too. My big dilemma now is whether to buy (i) the 65" 8UK and forego native 1080 resolution all together; (ii) buy the consumer version when it finally arrives and in so doing foregoing, in all likelihood, the ability to feed the panel 1080p via DVI or HDMI; or (iii) sit on my hands, learn to be patient and wait for a commercial version with 1080p input. The problem with waiting (other than the pure problem with waiting), is that I can't really finish my HT because I want to buy this cool Italian wall unit (http://www.mdfitalia.it/mdf/index.html). Oh yeah, and my wife will kill me if I try to give her the "this is just a temporary fix until something better comes along" story which of course, is true no matter what I tell her anyway! :D

While the lure of 1080 native is hard to pass up, I'm not 100% convinced that it will be so vastly superior to 768 native that I can't convince myself it's okay. Then again, going the 768 route may open the door for a 1080 native projection system and a 100' screen! Ouch - {wifeslapped to the back of the head}

Rob
rskinner@towbes.com

Yep, the "should I wait" game is brutal.

In my case I'm glad I waited (or glad I'm waiting). I'd always thought my natural upgrade from my 42" plasma would be to a 50" plasma. I may well have upgraded to a 50" version 1 year ago, but the arrival of a giant Panasonic (65") on the scene seemed too strong a wiff of things to come. The upgrade to 50" suddenly seemed less compelling next to the glory of a huge 65" plasma. As I hold off it's looking like the Panny 1080p 65" will be coming into my affordability range at just the right time.

So, in this case, had I upgraded to a 50" last year I would have used up disposable funds (and not to mention the "wife-ok's the upgrade" factor, which can be in short supply) on the 50," only to see my dream display arrive not much later. So I think it will have been worth the wait in my case.

Rich,

Basically, I agree with you. The biggest "real" question in my mind is whether the difference between the 1080 native (via HDMI/DVI) is going to be so big that the 768 native device is no longer "watchable."

Rob
rskinner@towbes.com

I think the most important advantage of native 1080p resolution is that you can get nearer to the screen. At least that's my reasoning for wanting 1080p.

Madshi,

That's a good point. My viewing distance can't really change because the room is a "multi" purpose room and my wife refuses to let me put the furniture in the middle of it. It would be really cool to do that and I've even consider using chairs or big "bean bags" so that I can adjust the viewing distance for critical viewing. My guess is between F1 Racing Season, Football Season, Basketball Season, 3 fairly nice sports cars and a fairly serious technology addiction (really advanced stages and in all likelihood terminal), my wife's patience/tolerance is about done. I may wait to give me the option but I think completing the project is starting to get the better of me and is high on my wife's list. In fact, if I complete the project sooner rather than later, I may get enough brownie points to actually send up a small test balloon on the front projector and a big screen. :D

Rob
rskinner@towbes.com

(I usually stay out of the "is xxx better than yyy" debates - but since ND on TV and I am eating pizza, I decided to pipe up).

Yes, there will be a considerable difference between 1080 and 768 - up close, but will be better than just perceptable at about 10' viewing distance for a 65" display. This is base upon my 15 years of engineering experience dealing with image quality equations, experimental design, and psychophysical evaluations.

I think the most important advantage of native 1080p resolution is that you can get nearer to the screen. At least that's my reasoning for wanting 1080p.

With good HD source material and good scaling, that should be the case (and it's part of my rational too). But the allure of screen resolution can make one forget about the importance of the source, at times.

DVDs on the Sony Qualia is a good example. There's no screen door on the Qualia so in that sense you can get close. And the DVD scaling is quite good...but still, as you move closer you do start to pick up the scaling noise, or just the noise inherent in the DVD source. The same goes for the current (non-1080p) Panasonic 65" display.
At least with DVDs, scaling noise starts to become visible sooner than the pixel structure as you move close. Thus, despite the difference in resolution/SDE between the Sony and the Panasonic, I found the comfortable viewing distance to be fairly similar between both of them for DVDs (and lesser Hi-Def content).

With really good, clean HD content you can start moving a bit closer to the Sony than the current Panasonic 65." But I wouldn't say it's by a huge margin.

Just "keepin' it real," if only to keep my own expectations in check.
;)

With really good, clean HD content you can start moving a bit closer to the Sony than the current Panasonic 65." But I wouldn't say it's by a huge margin.
But why is that the case? I mean StarWars II and III were shot in 1080p24 ( http://www.henninger.com/library/hdtvfilm24/ ) . And if we watch such a movie in a real cinema we have viewing angles of 36° or even more - and there's no problem with it. So if we have good HD content, shouldn't we be able to achieve the very same viewing angle at home with our 1080p display? To get that, we need to have a viewing distance of 7.3 feet to a 65" 1080p display.

So if we have good HD content, shouldn't we be able to achieve the very same viewing angle at home with our 1080p display? To get that, we need to have a viewing distance of 7.3 feet to a 65" 1080p display.

Yeah, that kind of matches my experience with the two displays. With Hi-Def content I find 9 feet about optimum with the Panny 65," 8 feet being pretty good too.
But the Sony still looks good at around 7 feet or so. Like I said, the xtra res of the Qualia does let you get closer; it's just not a huge difference. But it's nice to have it.

I am with RH , 9' to 10' on the Panny 65 to eliminate SDE. The Qualia 70" I've walked to within 4 feet of , the resolution is phenomenal. However, you've still got the projected image vs emissive 'realism' of the plasma. I was out visiting AV stores today ( has become a hobby of mine ) spent some time with the owner of one shop specializing in Pioneer Elite and Sony, said he had been down to CEDIA. His comment on the new Sony SXRD 50/60 was the most impressive RPTV's he has seen although he prefers the new Pio 6th gen's especially the 50" Elite. Said the video processing in the Elite is peerless. New Pio panels arriving within 7-10 days. Already has pre-sold orders on same, first one's arriving are going right back out for installation. Asked him why the prices arent dropping, he said the VP of Pioneer Canada told him that demand is so strong they dont need any price adjustment but hinted there may be some future action in this regard. He said Feb. for 61" 6 Gen. Pio. panel in Canada. Also said the 1080p projector units on display were incredible given image sizes being projected.
Pio6th Gen vs Panny 8th Gen vs SXRD vs 65 Panny in 1080 p, it's all getting too much to take but pros and cons should all be 'visible' over the next 90 days.

The Qualia lets you get closer because of the fill factor, too. Much higher than any plasma.

The consumer Panasonic with 1080p will probably be out in Feb - Mar, not this year.

Fortunately, I've got a very nice 2.5 yr. old HDTV now to tide me over (so to speak) until I decide on my next HT upgrade. Given the present circumstances w/the Panny 65" 1080p Prototype that Capt. Pike has eloquently described, I can afford to wait. BUT, if I had zip, zero HDTV, and needed a display pronto, I would enact a 2-3year plan. First, I would get a new generation Panny or Pio 50"er (depending on the Pio's 6th Generation performance), w/the idea of retiring this 50" display to the bedroom in 2-3 years to make room for the 60"-65" 1080p Plasma HT upgrade. By then, 1080p Plasma will be a household word w/prices down & bug free. Then I'd be set for the next 5-6 years!

He said Feb. for 61" 6 Gen. Pio. panel in Canada.
Hmmmm... Isn't that a bit too optimistic? I mean the 6100 isn't even available right now and it will not have 6G. Perhaps he confused the 6100 with 6G?

So if we have good HD content, shouldn't we be able to achieve the very same viewing angle at home with our 1080p display? To get that, we need to have a viewing distance of 7.3 feet to a 65" 1080p display.Yeah, that kind of matches my experience with the two displays. With Hi-Def content I find 9 feet about optimum with the Panny 65," 8 feet being pretty good too.
But the Sony still looks good at around 7 feet or so. Like I said, the xtra res of the Qualia does let you get closer; it's just not a huge difference. But it's nice to have it.To avoid misunderstandings:
With the materials showed at the IFA, both the Panny 65" prototype and the Sharp 65" LCD give you a very pleasant picture as close as 6 feet. But for me personally, if I would watch movies closer than 9 feet on such large panels, I would probably end up with a neck inflammation. But I am the kind of guy who likes to sit in the last row at the cinema.

To avoid misunderstandings:
With the materials showed at the IFA, both the Panny 65" prototype and the Sharp 65" LCD give you a very pleasant picture as close as 6 feet. But for me personally, if I would watch movies closer than 9 feet on such large panels, I would probably end up with a neck inflammation. But I am the kind of guy that likes to sit in the last row at the cinema.
Thanks for the clarification!

However, you said you liked 9-10 feet on the 80" plasma, too. How come? I mean that should put a burdon on your neck, too! :p

Thanks for the clarification!

However, you said you liked 9-10 feet on the 80" plasma, too. How come? I mean that should put a burdon on your neck, too! :pI know and knew that that this is a contradiction, but according to the notes I took, somehow with all three panels I personally found 9-10 feet a good viewing distance. I just don't have a better explanation :confused:. However with the 102" Samsung I found some 12" to be the best viewing distance.

Ok, let's see:

65" at 9.5 feet is 27.9°
80" at 9.5 feet is 34°
102" at 12 feet is 34.3°

So your neck doesn't seem to be your only deciding factor... :D With 80" and 102" you're almost at the THX recommended viewing angle of 36°.

With 80" and 102" you're almost at the THX recommended viewing angle of 36°.Just learned something new. I suppose my eyes and brain aren't THX conform :D. But I couldn't care less. Do you happen to have an URL to this THX standard?

Even better, here's a calculator:

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

It's very easy to find. It's the first google hit for "thx viewing distance" and "thx viewing angle", should you ever be in need to find it again.

Thanks!

And I was so impressed by your math skills.

Heh... :D

Part of PM from R Harkness

Hi,

Thanks so much for your offer to send pictures. I'm going to take you up on it. :)

Would you mind sending a few photos of the 65" Panasonic via email? They don't need to be compressed (I don't think). I don't think you need to go to crazy trying to find the absolute best photos of your lot, considering you took so many - maybe 3 to 6 photos or something.

Thanks once again!

Rich.Part of email to R Harkness

Hi Rich,

I spent the better part of yesterday searching through the 261 pictures I took of the 65" Panasonic prototype. I picked the IMHO best 37 pictures. I wasn’t able to narrow it further down :)

Attached is an index of the pictures I will send you. As you see, of some of the items shown on the panel I will send you more than one picture. I just couldn’t make up my mind about which one is the best. For these pictures some parts IMHO looks better in one of the pictures and some parts better in another one. Probably shows different frames from the same item sequence or the reason could be that the pictures were taken on different days.

The camera I used was a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX8 digital still camera with a 5 Megapixel CCD that Panasonic lend out for free for one hour at a time. So I borrowed one.

In case you wonder why the pictures I shot on 2005/09/05 are on average 1MB smaller than the ones I shot on 2005/09/02, I have no idea. After shooting pictures for an hour I gave the camera back to Panasonic and could some 30 minutes later pick up a CD with the pictures on it.

No idea if they did something different the second day when burning the CD, or if the camera the second day had another compression setting. When they handed me the camera I asked to have it set to the lowest compression rate.

All pictures were taken at approx. 9-10 feet distance from the panel. I zoomed as best I could to make the panel fill the viewer. In some of the picture, especially those of a woman’s face, and with some colors in other pictures, I think you can see the cell structure in the panel.

The camera was (with the settings I was given it with) unable to reproduce details in white items. This can be seen in the picture with the long-haired Siamese cat. The hair on the cat’s breast has no detail at all. There also was a scene with a white painted house where every plank and many details of the house could be seen. All pictures I shot of this house are just a massive white mass with no details whatsoever.

I will email you each picture separately with the same subject as in the index, for instance "P1000051: Bird." Hopefully I will not congest your email inbox with all the pictures.

Regards
Captain Pike



Panasonic 65" Prototype pictures' Index
=======================================


Pictures taken 2005/09/02:
--------------------------
P1000051: Bird.
P1000052: Fern.
P1000055: Autumn trees.
P1000057: Flowers type 1.
P1000058: Flower type 1.
P1000059: Flower type 2.
P1000060: Mountains.
P1000067: Make-up utilities 1.
P1000070: Woman, half profile.
P1000072: Woman, eyelid.
P1000075: Vegetables.
P1000078: Woman, profile with cat.
P1000080: Long-haired Siamese cat.
P1000081: Woman, front with flower.
P1000092: Part of leaf.
P1000101: Flower arrangement.


Pictures taken 2005/09/05:
--------------------------
P1000169: Flower arrangement.
P1000171: Flower arrangement.
P1000191: Mountains.
P1000193: Hills.
P1000202: Bird.
P1000214: Panasonic presents.
P1000221: Make-up utilities 1.
P1000224: Make-up utilities 2.
P1000227: Woman, half profile.
P1000236: Make-up utilities 3.
P1000245: Vegetables.
P1000256: Long-haired siamese cat.
P1000257: Hasselblad camera.
P1000258: Woman, front with flower.
P1000263: Flowerbud.
P1000266: ???
P1000277: Insect crawling in flower.
P1000293: Part of leaf.
P1000295: Leaf with raindrops.
P1000300: Overview.
P1000358: Flower type 1.Rich should have the pictures now, so after his expert eyes have sorted out the best and meaningful ones, I hope he will upload them to where he has his screen shot galleries.

Right,

I've got in late from work and had a look at the Panny 65" 1080p screen shots, sent to me by our kind Captain Pike. Again: a HUGE thank you to Captain Pike for being so helpful!

Wow. Very impressive shots. Even though the camera doesn't capture the full spectrum of the display - Captain Pike points out that bright areas that had detail in the plasma image became washed out in the photos - you still get a nice vibe of just how naturally detailed the images on the display were.

I've posted a few on my site. The file size can make it a bit awkward to view on the site so you might want to use the links as I've provided them. The best idea is to do as I did: download the photos into a file viewer and just start zooming in on them. I was particularly amazed at the woman's face, how much subtle skin detail was captured as I kept zooming in.

Here are the links to the photos;

Side Woman's Face (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/image/49457585/large)

Here's the full file image: (Although you can look at it on your browser I find it pretty awkward because it's so large. It seems easier just to download into an image viewer and zoom around on it):

Side Woman's Face - FULL SIZE (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/image/49457585/original)

Woman Make-Up (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/image/49457949/large)

Woman Make-Up - FULL SIZE (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/image/49457949/original)


Make-Up (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/image/49457950)

Make-Up - FULL SIZE (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/image/49457950/original)

(Keep in mind the blown-out bright areas due to the camera in this photo:

The Ever Reliable Hi-Def "Basket O' Fruit" (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/image/49458464/large)

Basket O Fruit - FULL SIZE (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/image/49458464/original)

Cheers,

Ok, let's see:

65" at 9.5 feet is 27.9°
80" at 9.5 feet is 34°
102" at 12 feet is 34.3°

So your neck doesn't seem to be your only deciding factor... :D With 80" and 102" you're almost at the THX recommended viewing angle of 36°.

Which shows how completely crackers the THX guidelines are for most people.

I doubt you'd find 1 in 10 households where people would sit <10 feet away from an 80" screen.

Which shows how completely crackers the THX guidelines are for most people.

I doubt you'd find 1 in 10 households where people would sit <10 feet away from an 80" screen.
Maybe there is a chance that this will change when we finally get good quality HD movies (BluRay + HD-DVD)?

Which shows how completely crackers the THX guidelines are for most people.I couldn't agree more with you.


Maybe there is a chance that this will change when we finally get good quality HD movies (BluRay + HD-DVD)?As I previously said, with full HD material you have a superb picture on the Panny prototype at 6 feet.

Personally I think taste is an important factor. When I watch movies on DVD and really pay attention, I see so much interesting and often funny things taking place at the rim of the picture away from the person in the middle currently talking. And if I sit too close I am personally unable to take in the complete picture. So I have to compromise between getting every picture detail and getting the complete picture.

I really hope that the commercial version of the Panny 65" prototype will be available mid next year. For years I have been watching the flat panel scene, and finally what I have been longing for is getting within reach.

When I finally purchase a flat panel, it is an investment for years. I don’t have the financial resources for purchasing a new flat panel every 2-3 year.

I've got in late from work and had a look at the Panny 65" 1080p screen shots, sent to me by our kind Captain Pike. Again: a HUGE thank you to Captain Pike for being so helpful!You and all the other members here are more than welcome.

I have been around here for a while :) and have really learned and benefited a lot from all the excellent FAQs and posts you and many others have written.

When I first visited the IFA (which for me personally was a good return on investment) it is the least I could do in return.



And when watching the pictures, please keep in mind that they don’t do the panel full justice. This is a must see (and have) panel :)

Maybe there is a chance that this will change when we finally get good quality HD movies (BluRay + HD-DVD)?

I don't think so. First of all, most of us just don't want to sit that close to a gigantic screen and it has nothing to do with picture quality.

Second of all, in homes -- not theaters -- there is finite space to see the picture if everyone crams in so close. Many homes have 3, 4, 5, 6 or more people watching the screen. There is a space problem that is solved by moving everyone back a bit. Not a ton of two-tier living rooms out there -- other than people sitting on the floor of course. :)

Mark

Impressive detail in those pics. Gives one pause as to just how good the 65p is and makes you rethink purchase timelines.

VERY nice. Thanks, Captain Pike and Rich (Harkness), for getting the pictures posted so quickly. Excellent job.

Seeing the pictures makes me want to wait, but I'm STILL intrigued about the upcoming TH-65PHD8UK. How MUCH better does anyone think the prototype's picture will be than the TH-65PHD8UK's? (Yeah, I know neither have been released yet, so this is just a guessing game.) 10% better? 20% better? More? (You know that money is just burning a hole in my pocket and can't be wait to be spent before Christmas.)

I guess the question should be put to the current owners of the Panasonic 65 inch plasmas. Have any of you looked at the newly posted pictures and been blown away? Care to chime in? RichB?

Franchot,

at the IFA Panasonic showed all their brand new European consumer TVs including the TH-65PV500 in the VIERA series. AFAIK the TH-65PV500 has the same panel as the TH-65PHD8UK, and surely has a great picture, but IMHO not as stunning as the Panny prototype.

I was in the same predicament as you, but figured out that I in the long run would regret not waiting "a couple of months" for a true HD panel.

Why not go to CES 2006 and see for yourself?
Leaping the 250 miles from LA to Las Vegas shouldn’t be a major obstacle ;)

Thanks, Captain Pike, for your impressions on the sets. I value your input and I'll probably end up waiting, also...although the wait is sure to be unpleasant with all the different 1080 sets coming out this fall clamoring for my money.

Yeah, flying up to Las Vegas would be no obstacle. The obstacle would be getting away from the casinos without gambling away the bucks earmarked for my plasma. (Of course, if I could hit big at the roulette table I could buy the TH-65PHD8UK AND that prototype when it gets released. Hmmm. I suddenly have a new upgrade plan...)

deleted

Does anyone know if the TH-65PX500 or the new prototype will be a regular commercial type display or are they going to bump it up into their Onyx line and charge way more money for it? Captain Pike, did you receive any indications on their marketing strategy for these two new models? I would love to get my hands on one of these at employee discount :) at the store I work at but the store will not carry the Onyx brand, only the regular consumer panels. Thanks

It looks like the consumer model will hit stores first - in the Spring of 06. The commercial (e.g. prototype) model should hit stores in late 2006.

Don't forget that the consumer model (TH-65PX500) does not accept 1080p input. The prototype apparently does.

I have a 42 inch plasma already in the bedroom, and I'm looking to upgrade my old RPTV to the 65 inch plasma for my entertainment room. I still have no idea if the 65 inch Panasonic is going to take a big drop in price, so I've been keeping my eye on dlp sets that will also fit the bill. The one that has currently risen to the top of my "consider" list is the HP Pavilion 65-inch DLP HDTV.

Anyone else also looking at this set as an alternative to a plasma? On another section of this forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=578765 , it's getting some good word of mouth. (Good review in "Sound & Vision"; can do 1080p over HDMI; picture quality that almost equals the Sony Qualia, but at a much lower price.)

Captain Pike, did you receive any indications on their marketing strategy for these two new models? ThanksI'm afraid not.

There will be a "mainline" model of the 65 inch Panasonic consumer unit.

...but I'm STILL intrigued about the upcoming TH-65PHD8UK. How MUCH better does anyone think the prototype's picture will be than the TH-65PHD8UK's? (Yeah, I know neither have been released yet, so this is just a guessing game.)
While we can only guess at some aspects of PQ, one thing that can be compared today is SDE.

The 42" 853x480 ED plasma has 23 pixels per inch.
The 65" 1366x768 HD plasma has 24 pixels per inch.
So if you want to sit close to the current 65", you will see the same degree of SDE as the 42" ED. I find SDE objectionable on an ED plasma unless you sit at least 10-12 feet away.

The 50" 1366x768 HD plasma has 31 pixels per inch.
THe 65" 1920x1080 HD plasma has 34 pixels per inch.
So basically, the 1080p 65" plasma maintains the same resolution (in terms of pixels per inch) as the current 50" screen--very important if you like to sit close. Does this make sense?

Yes, Blue 911, what you said makes sense. I sit about 6 feet back from my Panny 42 inch ED plasma and SDE does not bother me. (I only watch DVDs on the set.) For the upcoming 65 inch HD set, I'd sit about 8 or 9 feet back. (Again, I'd only use it for DVDs.) I'm thinking that the TH-65PHD8UK might be plenty good enough for my situation. I could buy it as soon as next month according to one forum sponsor I've communicated with.

I was hoping some current owners of 65 inch sets would chime in with their impressions of what they have and if the posted pictures and specs impressed them enough to the point that they would possibly upgrade.

FWIW, I've calculated the area (in mm²) of each pixel and sorted them so that plasmas with the smallest pixel size are listed first:

50" FD 0,33 mm² - 1920x1080
61" FD 0,50 mm² - 1920x1080
37" HD 0,51 mm² - 1024x 720
65" FD 0,56 mm² - 1920x1080
42" HD 0,61 mm² - 1024x 768
50" HD 0,66 mm² - 1366x 768
37" ED 0,92 mm² - 852x 480
61" HD 0,98 mm² - 1365x 768
65" HD 1,10 mm² - 1366x 768
42" ED 1,17 mm² - 852x 480

FD = Full High Definition = 1080p
It's easy to see that 61" and 65" 1080p plasmas aren't so difficult to realize, cause their pixel size is almost identical to the 37" HD pixel size. But it's evident from that list that engineering a 50" 1080p plasma is a whole different beast!

Madshi:

To be clear, your calcs include active area and cell walls. Right?

Madshi:

To be clear, your calcs include active area and cell walls. Right?

Cell walls are called ribs. Ribs are the source od screen-door effect. One can imagine increasing
the resolution by making cells smaller while unchanging the ribs. Let's hope this is not Panasonic
did boosting the 65" rez from 1366 to 1920.

Madshi:

To be clear, your calcs include active area and cell walls. Right?
Yes, you're right. It includes reg+green+blue + ribs.

It looks like the consumer model will hit stores first - in the Spring of 06. The commercial (e.g. prototype) model should hit stores in late 2006.

Don't forget that the consumer model (TH-65PX500) does not accept 1080p input. The prototype apparently does.

I'm interested in the comemercial model due to the 1080p input (for computer desktop and still photo display.)

In general, are the commercial models more or less expensive than the consumer versions?

Can we expect it will have both HDMI and analog component inputs?

If you really want to SEE the detail of HD you have three choices: buy as massive a screen size as you can--sit close--between 6.5 feet for a 50-inch set or 9.5 feet for a 73-inch set for 1920X1080--or improve your visual acuity to greater than 20/20 so you can sit farther back!

Bottom line: You really have to have a theater to experience a theater--anything else is just TV!

I'm interested in the comemercial model due to the 1080p input (for computer desktop and still photo display.)

In general, are the commercial models more or less expensive than the consumer versions?

Can we expect it will have both HDMI and analog component inputs?

In general the commercial models are less expensive than consumer. As for the inputs, you'll prolly have to buy an expension card. Similar to this link (TH-50PHD8UK):

http://www.visualapex.com/ProductSupport/TH-50PHD8UK.pdf

If you really want to SEE the detail of HD you have three choices: buy as massive a screen size as you can--sit close--between 6.5 feet for a 50-inch set or 9.5 feet for a 73-inch set for 1920X1080--or improve your visual acuity to greater than 20/20 so you can sit farther back!

Bottom line: You really have to have a theater to experience a theater--anything else is just TV!

How you got those 6.5 and 9.5 numbers??? Getting
into such precision means that you have to specify
how the distance is measured: to the front of eyeballs lens or maybe to the retina in the back of the eyeballs where the picture is actually created :D

More seriously, HD was designed based on
careful evaluations. The viewing distance is to be in the range of 3 x picture height for 1080 lines in order to utilize approximately the eye resolution. Talking about 6, 6.5 or 7 feet distance in this context is meaningless.

Stating that you REALLY have to buy a large size screen to appreciate the detail of HD or the immersion of a theater experience isn't meaningless but is spot on unless you're trying to sell displays that don't meet those parameters. Who knows the EXACT numbers--the main point is that if you WANT Home Theater and if you want to SEE its detail then you have to either sit close--buy big--or improve your vision!

Received an e-mail from one of the forum's sponsor's today. Essentially, the salesperson said that they would not be getting the TH-65PHD8UK any time soon, but had the TH-65PHD7UY in stock (and at a price that hasn't moved downwards like the smaller Panasonic plasmas have.)

Another forum sponsor said the TH-65PHD8UK would be in stock by the end of October. (That sounds like the foreseeable future to me.)

Do you think, perhaps, one seller is just trying to move out the old stock and thus says they won't be offering the TH-65PHD8UK any time soon? Or is it possible perhaps that Panasonic has rethought the TH-65PHD8UK, decided to hold back on it for a few months, do some upgrading, and issue it as a true 1080p set next year?

Franchot,

Sounds like the vendor pushing the TH-65PHD7UY needs to sell it.

I'd sure hate to be in a business where a manufacturer's announcement about new technology at a lower price would make it hard to unload current inventory.

Stating that you REALLY have to buy a large size screen to appreciate the detail of HD or the immersion of a theater experience isn't meaningless but is spot on unless you're trying to sell displays that don't meet those parameters. Who knows the EXACT numbers--the main point is that if you WANT Home Theater and if you want to SEE its detail then you have to either sit close--buy big--or improve your vision!

This is exactly what I'm trying to achieve w/my next HT upgrade...the immersion of a theater experience w/resolution & PQ to match, and I ain't talk'in postage stamp size displays w/my nose to the screen. For me, 10' viewing distance on a 65"er w/a articulating mount (for those even closer views) would be perfect. Artwood, you said it right and I choose "buy big"!

Apologize in advance if wrong forum/thread - am an absolute newbie!

I'm looking to buy the panny 65 (from reading through this thread among others) - tried to see one at a store - could only find the 50", but liked the picture quality. I think I've found a dealer for the 65PHD8UK who should have it available shortly. I know it is not 1080p, but I'm thinking about it anyhow.
Thoughts/suggestions? Pros/cons?
Also, does anyone have the 7UK in the Houston area that I can take a look at?
And what are the main improvements of 8UK vs 7UK?
Thanks in advance!!

Moarora

We are in the same boat. I also found a 65PHD8 at a big discount in a store close to where I live but even well discounted it's still above the expected 65PX500 price . A 1080P display cheaper than the current one is all I want for Christmas but I'm afraid we won't see it available this year.

Sergio

Apologize in advance if wrong forum/thread - am an absolute newbie!

I'm looking to buy the panny 65 (from reading through this thread among others) - tried to see one at a store - could only find the 50", but liked the picture quality. I think I've found a dealer for the 65PHD8UK who should have it available shortly. I know it is not 1080p, but I'm thinking about it anyhow.
Thoughts/suggestions? Pros/cons?


Simply put, if the TV meets your needs/desires then by all means purchase it. For me 60"+ and full 1920x1080 are critical drivers.

I suggeset you rank order your "gotta haves" and "like to haves", do a little research, and check your budgets.

Doing these will lead you down the path of 'satisfaction' -- the only trait that really counts. It will take a while and shouldnt happen overnight, but in the end you'll have a product that you can enjoy for many years to come.

Good luckl.

I come from the HTPC side of things. With DILA projectors and Vigatec processors we connected much of the equipment with SDI interfaces. But, although Panasonic makes an SDI interface, no one seems to mention how it works. Is there any experience with the SDI card?

Vince

I come from the HTPC side of things. With DILA projectors and Vigatec processors we connected much of the equipment with SDI interfaces. But, although Panasonic makes an SDI interface, no one seems to mention how it works. Is there any experience with the SDI card?

Vince

That is probably because of its price. It is cheaper to buy a VisionDVI or DVDO I-SCAN HD than it is for the board.

You are not likely to find any HT user that would buy it.

-- Rich

I see your point although only one does 1080P. Nevertheless, there is a lot of activity these days. So much off-the-shelf stuff instead of small bands of idea guys like Tom at Immersive or Milori or Jim Ferguson. I will have to do some catch up studying. Much has changed.

The SDI board is about the same price. I will see if I can jigger up a comparison just for giggles. But I need the industrial 65" panel to do it. That is the problem I started with.

You are correct, if I did not have a huge sunk cost, it would make no sense at all.

Ciao,

Vince

Come on guys, we need to keep this tread alive. These new 65" pannys are going to be the big ticket items that many people have been waiting for since plasma was invented. If anyone has any new news to share, please post it here. Thanks! Can't wait to see these panels for myself!

I just hope I can hold out long enough for this one! Hopefully I can get one by next September!

I'm a Pioneer owner, but am I welcome in this thread? You guys seem to be the only ones interested in 1080p(like me). Maybe Panny owners are the true brains around here.:D

Come on guys, we need to keep this tread alive. These new 65" pannys are going to be the big ticket items that many people have been waiting for since plasma was invented. If anyone has any new news to share, please post it here. Thanks! Can't wait to see these panels for myself!

So when is it available?

Rumor has it that by Q2 of next year. That's a rumor, of course. Any dealers out there with more info?

Well, the whole industry hopes that the soccer world cup (mid 2006) in Germany will give Europe a big HD push. So everybody (at least Panasonic and Pioneer) are trying to bring out their 1080p stuff in time for the world cup. I can't imagine that Europe gets this stuff much earlier than the USA - that would be a first in history... :) So Q2 2006 sounds about right to me for the 65" 1080p Panasonic and maybe also for the 50" 1080p Pioneer.

Rumor has it that by Q2 of next year. That's a rumor, of course. Any dealers out there with more info?


You know, home theater is really tough for those of us who never developed any patience. :rolleyes:

Well, the whole industry hopes that the soccer world cup (mid 2006) in Germany will give Europe a big HD push. So everybody (at least Panasonic and Pioneer) are trying to bring out their 1080p stuff in time for the world cup. I can't imagine that Europe gets this stuff much earlier than the USA - that would be a first in history... :) So Q2 2006 sounds about right to me for the 65" 1080p Panasonic and maybe also for the 50" 1080p Pioneer.

Yes, it is a bit strange that Europe will have 1080p broadcasting before the US, especially when you consider that there has been an HD drought in your area for so long. The good news is that the European broadcasting of 1080p will place even more pressure on the American broadcasting & cable companies to boost their rez. I think the next 24 months will be quite active & exciting to witness in the AV World. Can't wait!!!:D

Yes, it is a bit strange that Europe will have 1080p broadcasting before the US, especially when you consider that there has been an HD drought in your area for so long.

Sorry, but there will be NO 1080p broadcasting
in EUrope, only 1080i. But it will be MPEG-4/H.264 standard. Broadcasters could not agree
for 1080p because there are no TV cameras for it. Broadcast cameras for 1080p/60Hz or 50Hz will come at some point in the future.

Sorry, but there will be NO 1080p broadcasting in EUrope
There will be no 1080p50/60 broadcasting anytime soon. But there will be 1080p24/25 broadcasting here in Germany.

But it will be MPEG-4/H.264 standard.
Correct.

There will be no 1080p50/60 broadcasting anytime soon. But there will be 1080p24/25 broadcasting here in Germany.


There will be still 1080i transmission. As far as I see sometimes they will use 1080p/25 production format and deinterlace it to 1080i/50. This is good but does not offer the smoothness of motions in pictures which the 1080p/50 offers.

Do you really think there will be 1080p/24 broadcasting? I think the frame rate will be constant 50 Hz interlaced.

BTW, the use of MPEG-4/H.264 can bring advantage to consumers if they will not try to squeeze the bandwidth too much. Otherwise only broadcasters will gain.

There will be still 1080i transmission. As far as I see sometimes they will use 1080p/25 production format and deinterlace it to 1080i/50. This is good but does not offer the smoothness of motions in pictures which the 1080p/50 offers.

Do you really think there will be 1080p/24 broadcasting? I think the frame rate will be constant 50 Hz interlaced.
Premiere (pay TV Germany) officially announced they would broadcast whatever format they get delivered. They explicitly mentioned 1080p with 25fps (and also with 24fps, I believe, but I'm not totally sure about that). They will *not* broadcast everything in interlaced, unless they do a U turn on what they announced.

Of course 1080p/50 offers best motion smoothness - but only for video content. Film content is originally 25p (24p), so broadcasting film in 1080p/50 wouldn't help anyone. If you'd do that, every 2nd frame would be identical.

Come on guys, we need to keep this tread alive.

We could start discussing how much better(worse) Blu-ray will look relative to HD-DVD. :)

Come on guys, we need to keep this tread alive.

If they send me a prototype, I promise to post here every day.
Panasonic are you listening?:)

-- Rich

What is the time delta between the consumer release (i.e. the 1080i version) and the expected commercial version (1080p)? The reason I ask is that (1) The consumer version has been demo'd and is set for release in Japan in Nov and US around 2Q. (2) the 1080p prototype was demo'd, but no release dates provided.

I can't imagine the pro displays making it to market long after the consumer.

What is the time delta between the consumer release (i.e. the 1080i version) and the expected commercial version (1080p)? The reason I ask is that (1) The consumer version has been demo'd and is set for release in Japan in Nov and US around 2Q. (2) the 1080p prototype was demo'd, but no release dates provided.

I can't imagine the pro displays making it to market long after the consumer.
One thing is sure: Japan gets the model with 1080i only input in November. The rest is unclear (to me at least). Here in Europe we're likely to get the prototype model (with true 1080p inputs), probably in time for the world cup (mid 2006). So I'm currently thinking: Maybe the US will also directly in Q2 get the prototype model instead of the Japan model.

The other question is that about consumer or commercial. Consumer models usually are released by Panasonic in 1st half of each year, while professional models are usually released in the 2nd half of each year. So that time table would point to a consumer 1080p model, and not to a commercial 1080p model for Q2 2006. Furthermore the 65PHD8 is still not out yet, and it will *not* be 1080p. Will Panasonic replace the 65PHD8 so soon after it got released?

Of course I'm only speculating...

If they send me a prototype, I promise to post here every day.
Panasonic are you listening?:)

-- Rich

Rich,
did you ever try using a hdmi board on your TH-65PHD7UY?I am getting the same results(blueish noise) on my dark areas that you described on my TH-65PHD7UY.If I can correct this noise,this plasma could be nirvana.Any other owners out there getting the same results?

Premiere (pay TV Germany) officially announced they would broadcast whatever format they get delivered. They explicitly mentioned 1080p with 25fps (and also with 24fps, I believe, but I'm not totally sure about that). They will *not* broadcast everything in interlaced, unless they do a U turn on what they announced.

Of course 1080p/50 offers best motion smoothness - but only for video content. Film content is originally 25p (24p), so broadcasting film in 1080p/50 wouldn't help anyone. If you'd do that, every 2nd frame would be identical.

I don't think anybdoy will broadcast 24p, that is not feasible (adjusting display frame rate).

For film 1080p/50 would not make harm though it is indeed not necessary. But in fact movies in cinemas are displayed at 48 repeating every frame twice to avoid flicker.

So in the end it is very reasonable to create 50i by
deinterlacing 25p whenever possible to get rid of
interlacing errors. On the receiver side one gets
then 25p. But this is not enough for rendering fast movements so the Holy Grail is 50p/60p. In the
US 1280x720@60p is used and it is fine for fast moving scenes.

Rich,
did you ever try using a hdmi board on your TH-65PHD7UY?I am getting the same results(blueish noise) on my dark areas that you described on my TH-65PHD7UY.If I can correct this noise,this plasma could be nirvana.Any other owners out there getting the same results?

Ransome,

Panasonicn Tech support had been excellent. I put the full response in the other Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6342285#post6342285)

-- Rich

God I hope we hear something soon my finger is itching so bad and I have NO TV in my livingroom. I guess I should stay off the internet and trolling bestbuy and Sound Advise for fixes

God I hope we hear something soon my finger is itching so bad and I have NO TV in my livingroom. I guess I should stay off the internet and trolling bestbuy and Sound Advise for fixes

Hehe, I know the feeling. We are nearing the completion of our house (should be another 6 weeks) and I ordered the same TV for our new living room. I really don't think we will see it before the new year (just an assumption). TVA told me they were hoping for a November release. But this backlog on all of Pansonic's current TVs can't be a good omen. But I will still hope against hope that it actually will show up on time... =)

Me too!

Me, three!

Panasonic was saying at CEDIA that it was a 2006 product, not a 2005 one. I hope they changed plans, but I doubt it.

well I am going to cross my fingers and hope our friends at TVA can pull it off :)

Panasonic was saying at CEDIA that it was a 2006 product, not a 2005 one. I hope they changed plans, but I doubt it.

Mark,

Any idea if Panasonic will have their 1080p models at CES? I'm thinking of going this year. (I'd love to see SED too).

Thanks,

Edited.

Will these upcoming 1920x1080 native rez sets allow me to feed them 1080p from a htpc (using HDMI) with a desktop resolution set to 1920x1080 and not have any overscan issues whatsoever?

If there are overscan issues, then the internal scaler would still be messing things up, right?

I just returned a 50PX50 because the scaling/overscan thing was driving me crazy when feeding if a signal via a htpc via HDMI. To get the desktop to fit perfectly, I had to tweak my rez to something like 1886 x 1048, but then when I played DVDs, I would have tiny black bars on all 4 sides.

I hope 1920x1080 native rez displays will completely eliminate the need for the internal scaler to be active and overscan the signal to where you have to reduce the desktop resolution in order for it to fit on the screen.

I want pixel to pixel addressability over HDMI when running 1920x1080. Will this display (and others following in it's wake) support that?

The consumer version will not accept 1080P. It has been reported that a follow on panel due out next year will.

Generally, think commercial. All Panny Commercial panels accept native rate.

-- Rich

Threads Merged!

Dave

The consumer version will not accept 1080P. It has been reported that a follow on panel due out next year will.

Generally, think commercial. All Panny Commercial panels accept native rate.

-- Rich
Not at 50Hz over DVI/HDMI... :mad:

Not at 50Hz over DVI/HDMI... :mad:

Right. We U.S. types forget that :)

It would be nice if they also accepted 72hz.

-- Rich

Hey all. I just got an email from a friend in Japan who claims this TV WILL hit Nov 1st. He was trying to get further info. He said LOTS of people have been asking about it. So the $64,000 question is will it make it to our shores this year

Hey all. I just got an email from a friend in Japan who claims this TV WILL hit Nov 1st. He was trying to get further info. He said LOTS of people have been asking about it. So the $64,000 question is will it make it to our shores this year


What model is he referring to? Is it the prototype that Capt. Pike referred to in earlier posts within this thread that will except 1080p over HDMI or is it the TH-65PX500 that will not support 1080p over HDMI?

TH-65px500 is the one he was referring to

Guys, take a look at this "translated" Japanese page:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://store.yahoo.co.jp/color-marking/panasonic2.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Panasonic%2BTH-65PX500%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

Interesting things:

The price of 898000 Yens is equivalent to US$ 7750.00. A real bargain that will make the Qualians go for a shrink.

There is mention to MPEG4, maybe some Japanese stuff only.

Dual tuner ? Maybe one for OTA and one for the Japanese satellite system , BS?

Only one HDMI , what a pitty!

November 1st is the release day as reported before.

My guess is that we will know on November 1st when and if this baby will touch our waters.

Sergio

What does this mean? Is it just a disengenuous marketing gimmick? :confused:

The MPEG 4 is just for recording on the SD card, according to the press release.

Does anyone know if there are any other trade shows or events prior to CES that may showcase some of the new 1080p plasmas? This waiting game is killing me. I am sitting on the fence for either the 65" panny plasma or the 70" SXRD XBR RPTV that is rumored to be coming out. Any news would be helpful, even if its just bread crumbs at this point.

As far as the timeline for when the new panny's come out, is this about right?

TH-65PX500U consumer 11/2005 in Japan 1920x1080 1080i
TH-65PHD8UK commercial 11/2005 in US 1366x768 1080i
TH-65??????? consumer 2nd quarter 2006 1920x1080 1080p
TH-65??????? commercial 3rd quarter 2006 1920x1080 1080p

Visual Apex shows the 65PHD8UK as being 1366x768, is that right? I mean, being that the 65PX500U is 1920x1080, what does the 65PHD8UK bring to the table that the 65PHD7UY doesn't have?

TH-65PX500U consumer 11/2005 in Japan 1920x1080 1080i
TH-65PHD8UK commercial 11/2005 in US 1366x768 1080i
That should be roughly correct, I think.

TH-65??????? consumer 2nd quarter 2006 1920x1080 1080p
TH-65??????? commercial 3rd quarter 2006 1920x1080 1080p
Not sure about that. The big question is: Will the US consumer model be identical to the Japan 65PX500U model? Or will it be based on the IFA prototype instead? I think nobody knows for sure right now. Also I've not read a fixed release date for US + Europe yet.

Visual Apex shows the 65PHD8UK as being 1366x768, is that right? I mean, being that the 65PX500U is 1920x1080, what does the 65PHD8UK bring to the table that the 65PHD7UY doesn't have?
Visual Apex is right. The 65PHD8 will be a minor improvement over 65PHD7, but maybe (eventually) with a nice price drop. I think the MSRP of the 65PHD8 is not known yet (at least I've not heard about it yet).

currently the 8u is listed just a hair over xxxx at VP which is a nice drop to say the least

I'm not sure who VP is, but Pricemad shows the 7U at just a hair over xxxx as well and in stock. Interestingly, they also show the 8U listing at $19,999 and their price as xxxxx. I don't think the MSRP of the 8U is known yet, but I certainly hope it will list for less than it's predecessor and that Pricemad is wrong and that VP is right.

But if the consumer 1920x1080 will list for $8000 based on the price in Yen, I would like to think that the commercial unit will be less, not more. If that turns out to be the case, it would stand to reason that the 65PHD8 should list for even less than that.

If I can pick up a panny 65" commercial 1920x1080 1080p next summer for $7000 or less, I'll be one happy camper! The problem will be if I can hold out that long and not give in to picking up the 8U instead, if it becomes available for less that $7000 by the end of the year.