I'm thinking that the price of the 58" is pretty nice at $5,500 and $6k! But, compare a Pioneer 50" 1080p to the 65" 1080p at the same price??? Pioneer's better do some real tricks to sell enough to pay the R&D.

Supporting 72Hz playback is a nice feature... shouldn't be too hard to integrate into the Panny though, and I really hope to see this feature become more ubiquitous across all displays anyway once 1080p input/display is standard.

If this same trend holds true this year, we might see the 65" 1080p industrial model street for about $5400.00.

Of course, this is all wild specaualtion, but it is possible. All I can say is WOW, that would be cool!!

It's only a little bit depressing that the figure you come up with is very close to what I paid for my 50"7UY when it came out in October '04. :(

I guess that means when I get around to upgrading, 65" should be pretty doable. :)

Since my new home is pre-wired for a gigabit network, maybe I should look into the HTPC option.

I hope you can feel the jealous hate-rays shooting out of my eyes as I read this. :)

Which reminds me I need to get a quote from an electrician on what it would take to string some cabling once my escrow closes...

Out of curiosity, is anyone else wrestling with the idea of a projector vs the Big Plasma route?
It's kind of driving me nuts. I can imagine the impact of a big projection screen in the (smallish) room I'll be using for my new display. But I keep getting drawn back to plasma.

I recently compared the King Kong DVD on the latest Sim2 C3X DLP (3 chip) projector, vs on the Panasonic Onyx 64" plasma. I saw the usual trade-offs in each display. Plasma punchier, more window-like; projector bigger more enveloping, more film-like. If I had a FP-sized plasma image, problem solved. But as it is...trade-offs, trade-offs....

Anyone else?

Yes, but I think I will solve the problem by getting a projector for it's own room and the plasma for the living room. =)

Honestly, if you have the space for it, I can't see a reason not to go FP, PQ differences aside. The sheer size is a better for film content IMO.

RH - I cant imagine you bringing anything other than a 65" 1080p Panny Plasma home. And that would be just the start, you'll then have to figure out what type of external scaler you'll be hooking up.

Tnorth

Well, I guess the external scaler would be nice to have with any 1080i encoded material (OTA/cable/sat HD, as well as any upcoming HD video based releases), but for BR/HDVD I can't see why you would need or even want one. What more could you do other than just take the 1080p24 and display it a multiple of the frame rate to eliminate judder? Maybe I just answered my own question though. =P

Although for those of us stuck with Comcast cable and Motorola 6XXX serious HD DVRs, there is no passthrough of the signal which means the scaler in the stupid box would potentially get its grubby hands on it unless you manually change the output resolution each time you change the channel (and know what channels and what shows are broadcast in what format). Grrr. :mad:

It's only a little bit depressing that the figure you come up with is very close to what I paid for my 50"7UY when it came out in October '04. :(

I guess that means when I get around to upgrading, 65" should be pretty doable. :)

Or even more depressing...that figure for the 65" 1080p model is LESS than what I paid for my Panasonic 42" ED plasma!

Ah, the fun of being an early plasma adopter. :eek:

Actually, it's not depressing, it's great. I always knew the prices would come down of course (although maybe not like this). My reasoning for adopting early was that I could enjoy plasma and not wait, and when it was time to upgrade I'd likely find something better for even less money. I can buy a 50" Plasma from Pioneer or Panasonic for about half of what I paid for the ED.

But, of course, it comes time for the upgrade I'm I'm stricken with bleeding-edge-itis again. Come to me, my little Panasonic 1080p....

Yes, but I think I will solve the problem by getting a projector for it's own room and the plasma for the living room. =)

Honestly, if you have the space for it, I can't see a reason not to go FP, PQ differences aside. The sheer size is a better for film content IMO.

I understand. Most people think this way.

I happen to have the room for a projector, but I'm also more entranced by the quality of image a good plasma produces. I really love a big image too, but the big plasma is as close to getting a pretty big feeling image and getting that plasma quality. Especially with fairly close viewing distances that I favour.

Another member here (not posting anymore) traded in a good DLP projector for the current 65" Panasonic and, to his surprise, found himself even more drawn into movies from the sheer clarity, detail and realism of the image.

I constantly compare the 65" plasma to the best consumer projectors. There are always scenes on the projector when I think "Man, this is where image size makes a difference." But then, there are scenes on the plasma that make me think "This is where I find the plasma more compelling than projection."

So I'm still stuck in the middle at this point. I suppose it will all hinge on what type of impact the 65" 1080p model has on me when I view it. By then there should be some HD DVD players and HD DVD content out to more readily compared the cutting edge performance of 1080p plasmas vs projectors vs RPTVs etc.

So do the number of allowable dead pixels per unit go up for a 1080p display? There is considerable more pixel density.

Hmm is five dead ones still the magic number?

IF I go 65 1080p I'll be definitely buying from a store with a one pixel guarantee. I would imagine for most enthusiasts on this site, one pixel out would drive them crazy, I'll bet RH could see it from 14 feet ! If I lay out close to $10K it would grate on me, then again moving 65" of glass in and out of the house is no small task, so hopefully the Pannies in the big gulp size will come thoroughly tested.

Or even more depressing...that figure for the 65" 1080p model is LESS than what I paid for my Panasonic 42" ED plasma!


hey you are not alone ! :)

and this time I'm going to do it again. :)

btw I pretty much agree with u on the assessment on projectors. I currently have both a 42" and a 133" PJ setup. size starts to make a difference when it's > 120".

IF I go 65 1080p I'll be definitely buying from a store with a one pixel guarantee. I would imagine for most enthusiasts on this site, one pixel out would drive them crazy, I'll bet RH could see it from 14 feet ! If I lay out close to $10K it would grate on me, then again moving 65" of glass in and out of the house is no small task, so hopefully the Pannies in the big gulp size will come thoroughly tested.

Personally, I'd want a zero dead pixel guarantee- but I understand what you meant. ;)

What are the stores w/ a one pixel guarantee? The only one I know of is TVA. They have a dead pixel option BUT it allowed a no questions asked single swap of a new set. So, if you had a single dead pixel and returned it (shipping expense is yours) and then ended up with a new set that had, say, two dead pixels - then your SOL. Atleast they offer it. Do you know of others?


BTW: my credit card is burning a hole in my pocket...

BTW: my credit card is burning a hole in my pocket...

Me, too. Has anybody found a place where they could place a preorder?

IF I go 65 1080p I'll be definitely buying from a store with a one pixel guarantee. I would imagine for most enthusiasts on this site, one pixel out would drive them crazy, I'll bet RH could see it from 14 feet ! If I lay out close to $10K it would grate on me, then again moving 65" of glass in and out of the house is no small task, so hopefully the Pannies in the big gulp size will come thoroughly tested.

You know, I bought my 507UY from Visual Apex (very pleasant experience btw) and I had a dead pixel when I got my first set. It drove me nuts. VA agreed to send me another one (for free) and keep the one I had until the new one got there. New one comes, old one leaves and this one still has a dead pixel. Well it's a week or so turn around time to get the new set plus having to unpack it etc., deal with the movers and when they are going to be there so I figure if I'll just not worry about it... and well at more than about 3' I can't even see it anyway on a static image, let alone moving video. So in the end I feel kinda bad for returning the first unit. I find that stuck ON pixels are far, far more obvious than dead pixels anyway, so I'd rather have dead ones than stuck on ones (of any sub pixel color).

Panasonic was showing the 103 inch Panasonic plasma display on CNBC today at the New York Stock Exchange. The CEO of Panasonic North America said that it would be available before Christmas this year. He would not give a price. There were several other displays in the background including what I believe was the 65 inch which was not discussed.

Panasonic was showing the 103 inch Panasonic plasma display on CNBC today at the New York Stock Exchange. The CEO of Panasonic North America said that it would be available before Christmas this year. He would not give a price. There were several other displays in the background including what I believe was the 65 inch which was not discussed.

Yeah, saw it also! Nice.....wonder if it will come with its own portable atomic power plant. :eek:

:D

Yeah, saw it also! Nice.....wonder if it will come with its own portable atomic power plant. :eek:

:D

If you heat your house with oil you will probably save on your heating bill but your electric meter will need to be dynamically balanced.

If you heat your house with oil you will probably save on your heating bill but your electric meter will need to be dynamically balanced.
LOL

I missed the report. Any links to pictures would be cool. What do you think a 103" plasma would weigh? I can't imagine this thing being lifted by human power alone.

LOL

I missed the report. Any links to pictures would be cool. What do you think a 103" plasma would weigh? I can't imagine this thing being lifted by human power alone.

Here is a video:
http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=c0cc5bf4-e393-4b50-9fc7-82b679df3d58&f=rssrssmoney&f=15/64rssmoney

The specs for the new 100" 1080p plasma show the contrast as 3000:1. I suspect the 65" will come in at the same contrast level, which is slightly lower than the 4000:1 dark room contrast quoted for the new consumer 720p models.

http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=39429

bw, thanks for the video link.

The "Talent", holding the mic, was an obvious perfect chioce for interviewing Panasonic's NA CEO. as he was a wealth of mis-information about plasmas. After stating that he did not know much about plasmas, he went on to prove that the extent of his knowldge was, the possibility that he could actually recognize one, unless it was an LCD. What ever happend to the concept of journalist doing research on a subject prior to an interview? I think that this does a disservice to the industry in general, and to plasma technology in particular, for him to guess that the price of this 103", would be in the $ 2,000. to $ 10,000. range. You can't buy a good 42"plasma at costco for > $ 2,000. (I know, some would argue that you can't buy a good plasma at Costco period.)

I can buy one for more than $2000. :)

Oh, come on now. You know most reporters are just puppets for the agenda.
You don't really think they are going to bring facts to light about Plasmas...or anything else, do you? ;)

Oh, come on now. You know most reporters are just puppets for the agenda.
You don't really think they are going to bring facts to light about Plasmas...or anything else, do you? ;)


Unfortunately, an excellent point. There are, however a limited few who still do the research, or a least familarize them selves with their prospective interviewees.
Hell even Jay Leno has a modicum of information about his guests.

Here's (http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/panasonic_103_inch_plasma_goes_on_sale_this_christmas.php) another picture of the 103-inch beast. Is the li'l 65-inch in this picture?

How bad do you think a 65" 1080p will look when displaying standard definition pictures? I'm truly planning on going with the 65", assuming it isn't above say $10K, I concerned how bad SD content will look on a display with that many pixels and that size. It seems that the picture will be smeared due to stretching or will be letter boxed signifincantly. What are the thoughts on this?

David

David,

Too early to tell. We're going to have to wait until they're in distribution.

Implementation is everything. If they use a high quality scaler, then it'll look better than if a poor quality scaler is used.

Then you have the issue of signal quality that you're receiving. How good or poor is it?

For an item this expensive, it would be better for you to actually go see it with typical SD programming for you, burned onto a DVD. That should tell you what you want to know.

How bad do you think a 65" 1080p will look when displaying standard definition pictures? I'm truly planning on going with the 65", assuming it isn't above say $10K, I concerned how bad SD content will look on a display with that many pixels and that size. It seems that the picture will be smeared due to stretching or will be letter boxed signifincantly. What are the thoughts on this?

David
As long as you have good video processing, it doesn't matter for SD quality whether the display is 1080p or 768p or 100000p. Sure, SD on a 65" won't look that nice, if you sit very near to the display. But that has to do with the display size, not with the resolution. Lots of resolution doesn't hurt image quality (contrary to what some people say), if you have good video processing.

If you ask me, a 65" 1080p Panasonic plasma should not be used without an external video processor. Couple it with e.g. a Crystalio II and SD should be as good as it can get on any 65" display.

If you ask me, a 65" 1080p Panasonic plasma should not be used without an external video processor. Couple it with e.g. a Crystalio II and SD should be as good as it can get on any 65" display.

That’s great if money is not an issue but to spend about 10 G’s on a display
and then drop another 5 or 6 G's on a video processor to make it all work right, geeze, might as well build a stage and have live performers in your living room. :p :rolleyes:
I’m not knocking what you're saying, just wish I had more cash for all of these toys. :(

If you ask me, a 65" 1080p Panasonic plasma should not be used without an external video processor. Couple it with e.g. a Crystalio II and SD should be as good as it can get on any 65" display.

I thought you were waiting for a VP40?

I thought you were waiting for a VP40?
No, I might be waiting for the VP50, though (the "VP40" is going to me named "VP50", sais a rumour). Still not decided. The CII does have some fancy nice features which I could fall for and which I don't expect to get with the VP50... :)

@LL3HD, the display will work without an external VP, of course, but you'll have to live with the knowledge then, that you could have had better PQ... :p Ok, it doesn't have to be a Crystalio II. The next DVDO VP should also do the trick. It is (hopefully) going to come by the end of this year and it is (hopefully) "only" going to cost around 3k or something like that.

If you ask me, a 65" 1080p Panasonic plasma should not be used without an external video processor. Couple it with e.g. a Crystalio II and SD should be as good as it can get on any 65" display.


I don't believe the consumer 65 will accept 1080p so you'll have to wait for the 65 9UK.

If you are going to primarily be watching 1080i/p sources, why would you want the additional expense of an external scaler? Just feed it 1:1 pixels @ 1920x1080 and call it a day.

If you are going to primarily be watching 1080i/p sources, why would you want the additional expense of an external scaler? Just feed it 1:1 pixels @ 1920x1080 and call it a day.
Well, if you "only" watch BluRay and if you have a BluRay player outputting 1080p, then you're fine. But if you have a Toshiba HD-DVD player or any of the HD settop boxes which only output 1080i, then somebody has to deinterlace that to 1920x1080. Who will do that? The display? Then you have to hope that the internal video processing of the display is good enough. And for real video content (not movie content) you can bet on that the display only does an average job at deinterlacing - at best.

If you are going to primarily be watching 1080i/p sources, why would you want the additional expense of an external scaler? Just feed it 1:1 pixels @ 1920x1080 and call it a day.

1080i is not 1:1. It's not even close. 1080p60 will be the native resolution for the display. Both 1080p24 and 1080p60 input support would be a definite advantage. However, I don't think the 65 inch consumer will support either of these resolutions.

An external scaler can still be used, but not to it's full potential unless the panel supports native rate input.

I would suspect the 65 inch commercial model (9UK) will support NR though.

1080i is not 1:1. It's not even close. 1080p60 will be the native resolution for the display. Both 1080p24 and 1080p60 input support would be a definite advantage. However, I don't think the 65 inch consumer will support either of these resolutions.

An external scaler can still be used, but not to it's full potential unless the panel supports native rate input.

I would suspect the 65 inch commercial model (9UK) will support NR though.


Of course the 65"er has not been introduced yet, but from the Panny 60U/600U thread we may get a clue as to the acceptance of the 1080p input:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652809&page=51&pp=30

Here is a quote from the manual for these sets:
----------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by j-t-w
mkoesel - I was going to say it can't handle 1080p, but then I thought "let me flip through the manual." Well, I learn something everyday.

On page 40 of my 50PX60U manual, it indicates that for component and HDMI it supports 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i. For HDMI, it also supports 1080p at 67.43kHz / 59.94Hz (horiz/verti freq) and 1080p at 67.50kHz / 60Hz.

So that's a nice surprise. Obviously, it can't fully display all that, given that the panel doesn't have a native resolution of 1920x1080, but the fact that it can decode it is good. I'm not sure it would look any better than 1080i though, would it??

Wow. And thank you so much for the reply JTW.

Whether 1080p willl look any better that 1080i on this is a complex question. One potential huge advantage is that you can use an external video processor to do the de-interlacing from 1080i to 1080p (although the display would still be doing the scaling). Although the deinterlacers in televisions have gotten much better over the past few years, the ability to use a seperate scaler will be seen as a huge advantage for some.

This really is big news and I am shocked it was not reported here immediately after the first time someone thumbed through their manual.

Perhaps the biggest win here is for those planning to purchase the 65PX600u. It is almost 100% guaranteed now that that display will accept 1080p given that its little brothers (who don't even have 1080p native resolution) will accept it. This makes that panel tremendously attractive (compared to 65" pr 57" Sharp for example).

All we need now is for someone to confirm that the ability to adjust overscan has been put back into the service menu on these panels (after being left off the last generation 50/500u sets). That would complete the search for the holy grail.

Panasonic really is playing for keeps here. They are the first plasma manufacturer to market with 1080p/60 support and soon they will be the first with a 1080p native screen. Man, as I sit here typing away on my 50" 7UY, I suddenly feel like I am about to be obsoleted.
---------------------------------------------------------

Since the 60U/600U sets do accept the 1080p input as discussed in this thread/manual, it seems higher likely that the upcoming 65"er 600U will also accept the 1080p as described. :D

Also, the fact that the 65"er will be introduced this September along with Panny's new Blu-Ray DVD unit that outputs 1080p, it becomes apparent that the inputs on the 65" will definitely accept 1080p.

Of course the 65"er has not been introduced yet, but from the Panny 60U/600U thread we may get a clue as to the acceptance of the 1080p input:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652809&page=51&pp=30



The smaller model 60/600U's will supposedly accept 1080p60. I read somewhere here though that the 65 inch model will not due to it's use of earlier processing design. I hope I'm wrong.

Also, the fact that the 65"er will be introduced this September along with Panny's new Blu-Ray DVD unit that outputs 1080p, it becomes apparent that the inputs on the 65" will definitely accept 1080p.

One would hope so, but to re-iterate what I've written before, I'd contacted Panasonic Canada concerning these questions about the 65," who in turn contacted Panasonic Japan for some answers. Japan said the whole 1080p acceptance thing is in the pipeline, being worked on, but not to expect it in the panels before the end of this year/beginning next year.

Things can change, and I hope they do. But it's something to keep in mind.

BUMP

We're now into a new month and that much closer to being able to own one of these beauties. Anybody been able to pre-order one? Anybody have any links to sellers ready to take my pre-order money?

BUMP

We're now into a new month and that much closer to being able to own one of these beauties. Anybody been able to pre-order one? Anybody have any links to sellers ready to take my pre-order money?

costco does

costco does

Are you serious? Is Costco selling the 65" 1080p consumer model? If so can you PM me the price?

So who here is going for the consumer version, vs waiting on the Industrial version?

For one I won't have the $$$ to bite on one of these but will start putting a little aside. I'll wait for the price to drop. I can't see spending over 10k for a TV.

I would like to wait for the Industrial myself. I've been very pleased with my 7UY.

Question: Let's say I get the 65" 1080P set. How would my normal DVD's look and sound on it?

Not much better?

Or the same as I get with my 42" ED plasma.

Basically I want the bigger screen but don't plan to go to the new format until they get cheaper and the format war is decided upon.

So DVD's will be it for awhile.

Are you serious? Is Costco selling the 65" 1080p consumer model? If so can you PM me the price?

Are we talking about the Panasonic TH-65PHD8UK Black 65" Professional Series HD Plasma Display here?
If so its price has quoted on their site, as well as newegg ( which is $500 (has not included the taxes just yet, and that depends on where you live) less than costco).

Are we talking about the Panasonic TH-65PHD8UK Black 65" Professional Series HD Plasma Display here?
If so its price has quoted on their site, as well as newegg ( which is $500 (has not included the taxes just yet, and that depends on where you live) less than costco).


"Official Panasonic 65" 1080p Plasma, Info, Pictures, Etc. Thread"

I think not.... :rolleyes:

"Official Panasonic 65" 1080p Plasma, Info, Pictures, Etc. Thread"

I think not.... :rolleyes:

I just noticed it.

So who here is going for the consumer version, vs waiting on the Industrial version?

Industrial version.

Better looks.
Better "just" mode.
Better picture control.
Better price.

Swing!

Consumer Version.

Ready to make the plunge NOW instead of waiting more time for the industral model.

As far as price goes, I would think that when I add a stand (which I need) and the add-on boards, the prices between the two models are pretty close. (I don't need the speakers or tuners, but if I decide to upgrade and sell the TV in the future, a "complete" TV might be easier to unload.)

How much better can a person make the picture look on the industrial model versus the consumer model with the better picture controls? (Would it be such a small percentage that it's barely noticeable?)

Looks are in the eye of the beholder. Although I admire the minimal design of the industrial model, the consumer model is not ugly to me.

A better "just" mode on the industrial model might sway me to go for the industrial model, but, then again, how much would I use this setting? (I'm curious as to why each model has a different flavor of the "just" mode.)

Additionally, the consumer model will (hopefully) be carried by more stores which will enable me to be more choosy as to where I want to shop.

I guess the biggest incentive is that I want to buy now.

So who here is going for the consumer version, vs waiting on the Industrial version?

I'm leaning towards the comsumer, unless the speakers are not detachable. I
prefer the look of the smaller bezel and the bottom band of silver metal is just ok. Plus I don't want to wait.

Tony

I'm leaning towards the comsumer, unless the speakers are not detachable. I
prefer the look of the smaller bezel and the bottom band of silver metal is just ok. Plus I don't want to wait.

Tony

Has anyone seen what the industrial model will look like, and how wide the bezel? Also, why would Panasonic put a better "Just" mode on the industrial model than the consumer model? Makes no sense to me.

So who here is going for the consumer version, vs waiting on the Industrial version?

I would prefer the industrial version but, as long as the consumer can do pixel perfect 1920/x1080P60 from an HTPC, I'll accept the consumer model.

Has anyone seen what the industrial model will look like, and how wide the bezel? Also, why would Panasonic put a better "Just" mode on the industrial model than the consumer model? Makes no sense to me.


No I haven't, I was using the bezel on the TH-65PHD8UK in comparison to the 600U.

I've only had one Panny Plasma, and I have no Idea what a "just" mode is.

Has anyone seen what the industrial model will look like, and how wide the bezel? Also, why would Panasonic put a better "Just" mode on the industrial model than the consumer model? Makes no sense to me.

Does it make sense? No. But they do use different algorithms.

There have been many threads discussing the preference of industial just mode over consumer. In fact, there was a recent thread that showed pictures of Panny industrial vs. Panny consumer just mode. There is a clear difference. To me, the preference was easily industrial. (If I can find the link I'll post it - I may have bookmarked it at home).

Cheers!

I don't see the preorder at Costco.

Does it make sense? No. But they do use different algorithms.

There have been many threads discussing the preference of industial just mode over consumer. In fact, there was a recent thread that showed pictures of Panny industrial vs. Panny consumer just mode. There is a clear difference. To me, the preference was easily industrial. (If I can find the link I'll post it - I may have bookmarked it at home).

Cheers!

I remember seeing that post, also. I also thought the "just"mode on the industrial model was much better. I'm wondering why they would be different as well. Is it possible that since the consumer models comes out before the industrial models that last year's consumer model had the old "just" mode while the later released industrial model incorporated the new and improved "just" mode? Has anybody compared the "just" mode on last year's Pannys with the "just" mode on the recently released 600&60 series models? Otherwise, it doesn't make very good economical sense to use different settings/electronics for what is essentially the same set.

(If they do use different/electronics on their sets I have to wonder what other differences (or cost-cutting) is going on that we aren't aware of.)

So who here is going for the consumer version, vs waiting on the Industrial version?

I'm definitely waiting for the industrial version. In fact, I will probably wait for next years industrial version (10UK?). I'll be waiting until then to get a 2nd gen Blu-Ray Disc player anyway.

I'm definitely waiting for the industrial version. In fact, I will probably wait for next years industrial version (10UK?). I'll be waiting until then to get a 2nd gen Blu-Ray Disc player anyway.
By then there may actually be an SED TV to consider. Let's take a poll. Just kidding. Must admit everytime someone posts that 65" 1080P it is a beauty. ;)

By then there may actually be an SED TV to consider.

I won't be holding my breath. Even if SED does make it out by the end of next year (which is a big 'if'), they will probably be horribly expensive and very green. Which means I probably wouldn't buy one anyway. I generally prefer to wait until new technology has matured a little.

Has Panny given us any clue as to what MSRP will be on the 65"? I am guessing at least 10K since that the MSRP is for the current 65" model.

I wrote to Pete Putman about the pricing in his article, and he replied:

"My mistake. The actual SRP is $9,995, not $19,995. It has been corrected accordingly.

The availability (September 2006) was announced at the line show.

PP"

Boy, do I feel a whole lot better,
:D :D :D :D :D :D


Maybe the above will help... :rolleyes:

Comes from here:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/panasonic2006.html

I remember seeing a link to a website that was offering a pre-order on the TH-65PX600U, price was $11,695. US. I just went back an re-read the last 6 pages of this thread and I could not find that link. As I recall it was not a direct link. but a link from a linked page. Sorry that I can't remember more. It is possible that it was a link from another thread.

It's much too early for any kind of realistic pre-order on this unit. For instance if you do a Google, you will find several for $1000 less than noted above.

This is what one had to say about the unit:

"Panasonic TH-65PX600U
Screen Size 65"
Resolution 1366 x 768 "

1366 x 768 ? Yeah right! :o

Its too early yet.

Thanks bw, good to know. I would prefer to pay less than 10K, as opposed to more.

Heh. I waited so long to upgrade that by the time I was thinking about "finally moving up to 50 inches," 50 inches was looking too small, so it was up to 65." Now, by the time I'm ready to buy
65" that ol' 103" Panny will be out and....

LOL. Who am I kidding?

I'd love to see Panasonic come out with, say, a 75 to 85 inch plasma. That would be a real sweet spot for my set-up.

I will try to tough it out with the 65 in. until then...

That posted article has the MSRP at $9995. That should be interesting. I know that the 58" is being preorded at less than full MSRP, although that may not hold true for the 65". I have to believe that the new 65" will sell for more than the old one.

That posted article has the MSRP at $9995. That should be interesting. I know that the 58" is being preorded at less than full MSRP, although that may not hold true for the 65". I have to believe that the new 65" will sell for more than the old one.
I believe I read Japanese Press releases that they lowered the price of the previous generation 65" - cutting the MSRP in half about 3 months before the release of the 1080P 65" in Japan around November/December 2005. In the same Press release the Yen converted to US Dollar came out to around $8600.00 for what it was selling for in Japan about 5 months ago. I don't know that it could hold such a low price in US initially as they'll have no competition in 1080P PDP and the old supply and demand pipe may take it closer to MSRP in US. :)

FWIW fellow Canucks:

While I was in The Brick (don't ask) I inquired about the Panasonic. Turns out the TH-65PX600U in their inventory list, as a special order. MRSP @ $15,000.

Man, an astounding $10,500 over the price of their 50" models in Canadian stores! One could practically buy a top of the line Sony SXRD Ruby projector for the price difference alone, between the 50" and 65."

Hopefully there will be somewhere to get a break on such pricing (and especially on the hopefully upcoming industrial version)...because at those prices that thing is simply out of reach for me.

Is that in USD?

No, Canadian $, assJack1.

Man, that's fracking crazy. Panasonic ups the ante $5000 makes no sense to me. Only a few short months ago at CES they quoted a $10,000 MSRP. Canada seems to jack up the prices on their consumer electronics, so perhaps this is the extreme case. Rich, maybe you should start packing for a trip south of the border!

FWIW fellow Canucks:

While I was in The Brick (don't ask) I inquired about the Panasonic. Turns out the TH-65PX600U in their inventory list, as a special order. MRSP @ $15,000.

Man, an astounding $10,500 over the price of their 50" models in Canadian stores! One could practically buy a top of the line Sony SXRD Ruby projector for the price difference alone, between the 50" and 65."

Hopefully there will be somewhere to get a break on such pricing (and especially on the hopefully upcoming industrial version)...because at those prices that thing is simply out of reach for me.

$15k Canadian is about $13,500 US, so that is high. I have seen preorders online US for $3k less than that.

darn. With this new info I may just have to pull the trigger on a current production panny or NEC. Anything over 9K is out of the question.

darn. With this new info I may just have to pull the trigger on a current production panny or NEC. Anything over 9K is out of the question.

Two things: the canadian price may have the VAT tax added (I don't know), and the commercial model is often a little cheaper than consumer ones.

I'd wait to hear what the MSRP is in the USA. You know that etailers will have it cheaper anyhow.

darn. With this new info I may just have to pull the trigger on a current production panny or NEC. Anything over 9K is out of the question.How insane is it that we would even consider spending $9000 for a TV? :eek:

How insane is it that we would even consider spending $9000 for a TV? :eek:

Don't think of it as a TV. Rather, adaptable wall art ;)

- Rich

Don't think of it as a TV. Rather, adaptable wall art ;)

- Rich

Is that the line you married guys give to your wife when buying these TVs? ;)

Real question is, does it work? :)

How insane is it that we would even consider spending $9000 for a TV? :eek:

I would have thought so too if you asked me even two years ago. But two years ago, paying 15K for a home theater room was out of the question as well.

I wouldnt get overly concerned about early information especially coming out of the Brick which is basically a furniture store that dabbles in electronics Headquartered out of Edmonton, Alberta.
I fully expect the current 10% difference in the US vs CDN $ to disappear and go to par over time, probably not in time for the delivery of the 65 1080p but the C$ will be moving up. I expect the 65 to come in at $10K in the U.S.. So the worse case scenario for Torontonians like me is to order a commercial model through US online source have it delivered to the Panasonic service centre just outside Buffalo, have them do a service inspection pixel check etc, rent a van and pick it up. Prey it doesnt need warranty so you dont have to reverse the process. I know just dreammin about the Dream Machine !

it delivered to the Panasonic service centre just outside Buffalo

Where might that be? I live in Rochester and am excited to know that there is a service center a short drive from my house.

AssJack1 - Yeah I looked at this option previously. They charge $200 for a full service inspection, check every pixel and then package it back up. Ultimately I bought a consumer 42PX500U from BestBuy in Canada as the prices dropped to a reasonable level. I am sure the same will ultimately happen for the 65 1080p but for early adopters looking to save some $ it's an option, albeit lugging around a panel that size is not for the faint of heart. I found it by going into the Panny Service site and looking for locations , sorry I dont have the name of shop and location handy it was over a year ago that I scouted this out. But it's definitely there in a suburb of Buffalo. Call Panasonic or click around their site to locate service centres you'll find it. If I have some time this weekend I'll poke around find it and post it. For CDN's though the big issue is that if it fails you have take it back to the U.S. for warranty as Panny Canada will not honour an out of country panel. For a long time though the commercial panny 65 was twice the cost in Canada vs U.S. all exchange/taxes/duty/freight/service inspection charges included. Believe me I researched this one thoroughly. Today there is still a differential but the gap has narrowed considerably. I doubt that will be the case with 65PX600U at least initially and we wont see the commercial version until after the consumer version is launched, at least that's my bet.

TruNorth - thanks for the information, it's well appreciated.

TruNorth, was that shop a "Factory Service Center" or was it an "Authorized Panasonic Service Center"?

Cajie - authorized Panasonic Service Center - and I did actually talk to the Manager there, she was very helpful, they have a standard servicing package they offer where they check it over , all functions tested. My thought at the time was that $200 would be well spent , I planned to actually drive to the location and if I had a serious warranty problem I'd just drive the panel back across the border and have them fix it. But with the price of plasmas dropping as they have, no point in today's market up to 50". But w the 65" 1080p you're at a pricing level once again that would make sense at least for an early adopter. The problem is at 65" you're now talking about 300 lbs or so of glass to move around. Anyway since there seems to be interest I'll poke around the site this weekend (long holiday weekend here in the Great WHite North) and get something posted up later.

The 657UY weighs 190 lbs.

- Rich

RichB - Ok thanks lighter than I thought, lets call it a middleweight instead of a heavyweight. Since the first one out will be the consumer model it may break the 200lb. mark. My Sony 32 CRT weighs in at 175 pounds and while i've lifted it myself you really need two or three people on it, assume the same thing will apply to the 65.
My 42PX500U is in at around 100lbs or so and quite manageable but still is a two person situation. Weight is one area where projectors obviously win hands down no pun intended.

For those looking for the Authorized Panasonic Service Center in the Buffalo area referred to in my earlier notes I believe this is the one I scouted out previously:

Lifetime Service Centre
52 South Union Road
Williamsville, New York
14221
716-632-0216

Again depending where the C$ is sitting when the 65 1080p arrives this may be an option for adventurous CDN's in the Toronto area willing to take a risk. That is order from one of the online U.S. sites have it shipped to the service ctr.. This addresses several issues. One you now have a U.S. destination site for the plasma as many U.S. vendors will not ship to Canada. A much better level of security as opposed to shipping to any other point. It's close by. They can do a full service check, you have a location to return it for warranty work (US Panasonic will not do work in Canada so you need to weigh that out). With 1920 x 1080 pixels you want to know they all work.

US$200 Shipping
US$199 for the service check
Assume exchange is 10% when it arrives.
Duty will be 5%.
Taxes due are 14% for GST 6%(panel will arrive after it drops) and PST 8% combined for Ontario residents.
Keep in mind that for both duty and taxes CDN Customs usually drops the exchange level down from where the current market level is.

Then again maybe CDN's will get lucky and Panny Canada will price it close to U.S. levels and then you can forgettabout this option. It does sound like a lot of work on reflection.

For those people that plan on getting this set AND using a TV stand or credenza, I cannot stess enough to do research on the load capacity of the stand you a planning to use. You do not want to place a real expensive plasma on a flimsy support structure. Take a look at the loads that we're dealing with: using the 8uk (172 lbs.) and its table stand the ST65K (60 lbs) as reference point the weight quickly gets to ~235 lbs. And thats the top shelf! Add more for audio receivers, DVD players, DVRs, ect.

First try to find a stand with atleast 300lbs. TOP SHELF capacity. Beware - some place list total capacity of the stand at 300 lbs. or 330 lbs. This is a recipe for distaster. Personally I would not buy a stand that does not list some type of specifications. (In fact, I have removed stands because some snobby manufactures would not even reply to my emails). Doing this legwork now will save time and allow you to sleep well at night.

Second, even if you do locate a stand that can support the plasma and electronic gear - investigate the overall dimensions - especially the height. Viewing height on the stand is a personal preference - and should be considered when purchasing your furnature.

Just trying to share my experiences. Good luck!

... Or just mount it on the wall :)

- Rich

... Or just mount it on the wall :)

- Rich

w/a articulating arm mount!:D

... Or just mount it on the wall :)

- Rich

But, I don't want to. ;)

Is there any indication that this display will refresh at 72 Hz?

Is there any indication that this display will refresh at 72 Hz?

That would seem pretty unlikely, IMHO.

That would seem pretty unlikely, IMHO.


I think its pre-mature either way. This will be Panny's first 1080p set and who knows what we will expect. Also, The industial may while the consumer may not. I'm sure will find out in the next few weeks.

That would seem pretty unlikely, IMHO.
FWIW, all Panasonic commercial models are able to work with internal refresh rates of 48Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz.

Here is a review of the Panasonic 65-inch Viera TH-65PV500B. This is only a 1080i set.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2938

FWIW, all Panasonic commercial models are able to work with internal refresh rates of 48Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz.

48 Hz would certainly eliminate the judder - does anyone notice flicker at
this rate?

48 Hz would certainly eliminate the judder - does anyone notice flicker at this rate?
Well, I don't see any flicker at 50Hz, which we're using all the time here in Europe. Haven't tried 48Hz yet, but it's close enough to 48Hz.

Here is a review of the Panasonic 65-inch Viera TH-65PV500B. This is only a 1080i set.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2938

I don't know much about TV's across the pond, but that review is for a different set than we are interested in here - the native resolution is still 1366 x 768.

We want a 1080p, full spec display (1920x1080) that can also accept a 1080p signal.

Hope this helps.

We want a 1080p, full spec display (1920x1080) that can also accept a 1080p signal.With dual ATSC tuners, a two-way cable card slot and an HD enabled IEEE 1394 port. ;)

I think its pre-mature either way. This will be Panny's first 1080p set and who knows what we will expect. Also, The industial may while the consumer may not. I'm sure will find out in the next few weeks.

Are you saying that specs for both units will be released in the first 2 weeks of June?

BUMP

We're now into a new month and that much closer to being able to own one of these beauties. Anybody been able to pre-order one? Anybody have any links to sellers ready to take my pre-order money?

Bump again. May turns to June.

We're now into a new month and that much closer to being able to own one of these beauties--the TH-65PX600U. Anybody been able to pre-order one? Anybody have any links to sellers ready to take my pre-order money?

(Thanks, RichB, for posting about the commercial version that's coming in October:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=682757

Even though it's only a few months difference, I just don't think I can WAIT that much longer!)

Bump again. May turns to June.

We're now into a new month and that much closer to being able to own one of these beauties--the TH-65PX600U.Any idea if this TV will include a two-way CableCARD slot, dual ATSC tuners and a IEEE 1394 port?

Franchot, all the news and press releases I've read since CES in Jan.2006 have pointed to late Summer 2006 as the debut of the 1080p 65"er. No change in this time frame that I'm aware, so it looks like you'll have to hold your breath another 60-90 days.

Sorry if this has been asked, or posted before - but I'm trying to plan. Does anyone know the exact dimension for the 65px600. Thanks

Looks like the Panasonic 1080P Vision has a contrast ratio of 3,000:1. The Fujitsu 63 108I P63XTA51UB has a 10,000:1 ratio -

I am wondering why such a big difference in contrast ratio ? Is the Fujitsu all that better?

Looks like the Panasonic 1080P Vision has a contrast ratio of 3,000:1. The Fujitsu 63 108I P63XTA51UB has a 10,000:1 ratio -

I am wondering why such a big difference in contrast ratio ? Is the Fujitsu all that better?

That is disapointing. It may indicate that the panel is build on the 8 series and not the 9 series technology. Let's hope it includes the latest 16 bit processing.

- Rich

I have yet to see any information on the forthcoming Panny TH-65PX600U set. I suspect it will be in line with the current 600U 9th gen sets and also offer a improvement on contrast compared to the older 500U sets plus 1080p resolution. Time will tell!

Looks like the Panasonic 1080P Vision has a contrast ratio of 3,000:1. The Fujitsu 63 108I P63XTA51UB has a 10,000:1 ratio -

I am wondering why such a big difference in contrast ratio ? Is the Fujitsu all that better?I'm not sure but I believe there is a correlation between the number of pixels in a PDP display (2073600 1080p vs. 1049088 720p) and the value of it's luminescence (http://flux.aps.org/meetings/YR02/DPP02/baps/abs/S700025.html).

In order to pack all of those extra pixels into a 1080p PDP... one hurdle plasma TV manufacturers had to overcome was creating a platform where accurate colors and a sufficiently bright display can be supported along with the higher resolution. In any event... a TV with a 3000:1 contrast ratio is capable of rendering a very bright picture.

Looks like the Panasonic 1080P Vision has a contrast ratio of 3,000:1. The Fujitsu 63 108I P63XTA51UB has a 10,000:1 ratio -

I am wondering why such a big difference in contrast ratio ? Is the Fujitsu all that better?


Are we mixing up static and dynamic contrast ratios?

Not sure what static and dynamic ratio are ?

There was only one contrast ratio mentioned in SPEC and it says for the panny 3000:1

As another memeber mentioned may be 3000 CR is good enough for a 1080 P plasma

I wonder what owners of the current 65" NON 1080 Plasma owners think of their 3000:1 Contrast ratio,

Again, I believe the difference can be primarily attributed to the PDP technology itself, 720p versus 1080p and how much current can be used to charge the phosphors while maintaining accurate colors. Pioneer doesn't seem to publish the contrast ratio specifications for their PDP-5000EX either.

I am sure that they will have similar contrast ratios, I wish manufacturers would have the balls to give the spec for absolute black, they wouldn't dare!

I am sure that they will have similar contrast ratios, I wish manufacturers would have the balls to give the spec for absolute black, they wouldn't dare!

Amen to that brother. The panel is bright enough.

I am interested in

- better gray-scales
- accurate color decoding and points
- native rate support via digital connects HDMI/DVI at 24,25,48,50,72 hz (Look Madshi :))
- the lowest possible black levels
- 1080P (of course)

- Rich

And "optivity" still wants dual ATSC tuners w/true PIP capabilities, a two-way CableCARD slot or some accepted form of DCAS DRM so I can get/use the content I'm willing to pay for, and ideally... an IEEE 1394 port for archival purposes... only then will I spend the BIG $ on a 1080p TV. ;)

- native rate support via digital connects HDMI/DVI at 24,25,48,50,72 hz (Look Madshi :))
Now be honest: You are just scared of me visiting you to scratch your darling!

Btw, I could live without 25Hz support, as 25Hz*2 = 50Hz. Instead I'd suggest to add 60Hz to your list... :D

Advertised contrast ratios mean absolutely squat...

And I must ask where the 3000:1 spec for the 65PX600U was obtained??? Because Panny has yet to actually release any specs. So far, the only information that Panasonic has released is the model numbers for the two 65" 1080p sets (600U series and commercial 9UK series) and has stated that both are 9th generation panels.

This sounds like some dealer spreading a bunch of bunk just to sell you a panel now instead of letting you wait.

The Fujitsu may be a better panel, but as of right now we don't know until Panny releases the specs. For all we know, the Panny 65" could be the best thing out there and could MSRP for $25K... We don't know. :cool:

Now be honest: You are just scared of me visiting you to scratch your darling!

Btw, I could live without 25Hz support, as 25Hz*2 = 50Hz. Instead I'd suggest to add 60Hz to your list... :D

Nope, you have completely turned me around, I only want 50hz now :D

- Rich

Nope, you have completely turned me around, I only want 50hz now :D
:eek:

Now be honest: You are just scared of me visiting you to scratch your darling!

Btw, I could live without 25Hz support, as 25Hz*2 = 50Hz. Instead I'd suggest to add 60Hz to your list... :D


Yep, 60 for video and 72 for film would be great!

Some people will be happy to pay the BIG bucks and become an early adopter of 1080p PDP technology while staying married to their cable/satellite provider's STB. :rolleyes: What's the latest news about two-way (http://www.opencable.com/) CableCARDs (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/4004543.pdf) and/or DCAS (http://www.cabledatacomnews.com/nov05/nov05-3.html) to control DRM? (http://www.abiresearch.com/products/market_research/Conditional_Access_&_Digital_Rights_Management) The lack of information recently regarding digital subscriber's access to HD content and how copyright protections are to be administered makes me wonder what these early adopters will be watching on their rather expensive 1080p PDPs? :p

Some people will be happy to pay the BIG bucks and become an early adopter of 1080p PDP technology while staying married to their cable/satellite provider's STB. :rolleyes: What's the latest news about two-way (http://www.opencable.com/) CableCARDs (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/4004543.pdf) and/or DCAS (http://www.cabledatacomnews.com/nov05/nov05-3.html) to control DRM? (http://www.abiresearch.com/products/market_research/Conditional_Access_&_Digital_Rights_Management) The lack of information recently regarding digital subscriber's access to HD content and how copyright protections are to be administered makes me wonder what these early adopters will be watching on their rather expensive 1080p PDPs? :p

Ah...... Blu-Ray ;)

Yep, 60 for video and 72 for film would be great!

How about 120 for both? ;)

Ahhh, too radical. :)

Ah...... Blu-Ray ;)Right and maybe your HD TiVo Series 3 (http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2006/01/hd_tivo_series_.html). Where's that two-way box these days? :rolleyes:

We should start a new sightings thread called "where is the VaporWare?" starring 2-way CableCARDs, HD TiVo's and SED FP TVs. :D

also known as... how much longer will digital subscribers be held hostage to their cable/satellite provider's STB? :p

When I see how well the 1080P is supported ,as far as media and peripheral equipment that is available on the lauch date at thattime I will be able to make a decision. Yes the size is nice but will the PQ be noticeable given the DVD's and programming that's available?????

1080p peripheral equipment? Well, check this out:
Its already coming out, and Panny will also debut its Blu-ray DVD and AV Receiver along with the 65" 1080p HDTV in Sept.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=0NGBAVEJSAFNYQSNDBGCKHSCJUMEKJV N?articleID=188702523&pgno=2

1080p AV Receiver
Lastly, Sony unveiled its new A/V Receiver with 1080p pass-thru via HDMI, which is designed to complement its line of 1080p True HD displays and its Blu-ray Disc player (BSP-S1). The STR-DG1000 receiver ($800) has several HD enhancing features. The 7.1 channel audio/video receiver has 120 watts of system power per channel. The receiver supports assignable 1080p HDMI switching (2-in/1-out) and the up-conversion of composite, S-video and component video sources to HDMI, minimizing the number of connections between the receiver and display. The A/V receiver also comes with optical inputs, as well as five inputs and two outputs for A/V, and three inputs and one output for audio.

With the STR-DG1000's HDMI active intelligence inputs, they automatically detect and receive the best possible video and audio signals from all connected devices. This all-digital path from source to display also handles 1080p resolution and up to eight channels of uncompressed audio. Additionally, the unit can simplify multi-channel surround sound set-up for a perfectly balanced home theater experience via Digital Cinema Auto Calibration (DCAC) technology, which helps customize the receiver’s audio performance based on its room environment. The receiver also offers a redesigned on-screen display for set-up and control, as well as a powered multi-room function for two-channel enjoyment in an adjoining room along with XM Connect and Play satellite radio capabilities (that requires the purchase of an XM Connect and Play antenna and radio subscription). Lastly, the new receiver features a Portable Audio Enhancer feature so you can plug virtually any portable audio player into the receiver, which applies digital signal processing on the compressed audio, improving its clarity and depth by adding information to the audio signal that had been removed during compression

1080p peripheral equipment? Well, check this out:
Its already coming out, and Panny will also debut its Blu-ray DVD and AV Receiver along with the 65" 1080p HDTV in Sept.Right, but 480i up converted to 720p on my OPPO OPDV971H (http://www.oppodigital.com/) --> 50PX50U looks so good I wonder how much value there is in investing more than $10,000 into a 1080p FP along w/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players. Where are the DCR devices to free us from our SA8300s? Why can't a $10,000 TV :eek: also support the ability to dial up the content I want to see rather then being forced to use Time Warner’s STB which IMO... is the "weakest link" of my HT system. I'm not surprised the initial series of 1080p PDPs do not support two way communication, but the lack of new information regarding two-way CableCARDs and/or DCAS is a big disincentive towards spending the BIG bucks while being chained to a three year old STB that was a piece of junk to begin with. :rolleyes:

Regarding CableCard, can't commercial users just pop in the new 2 way CC blades when they become available? Isn't this really a non-issue right now until the hardware shows up.

Only if the commercial units can be fitted with an ATSC tuner card/blade of some sort, and perhaps one day we will see options like this. We still need the MSOs to open up their networks so plug & play devices become a reality.

When I see how well the 1080P is supported ,as far as media and peripheral equipment that is available on the lauch date at thattime I will be able to make a decision. Yes the size is nice but will the PQ be noticeable given the DVD's and programming that's available?????

HAve checked out the Video Processor forum? You can already purchase equipment that scales and output's 1080p. Even better stuff with stronger capabilities are is comming out this fall.

That's what I love... spending $10,000 on a TV/monitor and then another $3 grand for a video processor. :D

That's what I love... spending $10,000 on a TV/monitor and then another $3 grand for a video processor. :D

Well if everything went high def, then I'd be hard pressed to spend the extra $3K. Bu since SD rules the world - you cant feed the TV a completely crappy signal. (Only scaled crap). :D

Right, but 480i up converted to 720p on my OPPO OPDV971H (http://www.oppodigital.com/) --> 50PX50U looks so good I wonder how much value there is in investing more than $10,000 into a 1080p FP along w/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players. Where are the DCR devices to free us from our SA8300s? Why can't a $10,000 TV :eek: also support the ability to dial up the content I want to see rather then being forced to use Time Warner’s STB which IMO... is the "weakest link" of my HT system. I'm not surprised the initial series of 1080p PDPs do not support two way communication, but the lack of new information regarding two-way CableCARDs and/or DCAS is a big disincentive towards spending the BIG bucks while being chained to a three year old STB that was a piece of junk to begin with. :rolleyes:

I can tell you that HD DVD looks excellent on my 657UY, so you can get an improvement for $500. Cable-card is good for Bedroom TV's, Tivo series 3 and sports and thats about it :p

- Rich

I can tell you that HD DVD looks excellent on my 657UY, so you can get an improvement for $500. Cable-card is good for Bedroom TV's, Tivo series 3 and sports and thats about it :p

- RichSo you would rather use an SA8300 with a $10,000 TV instead of it's internal tuner/MPEG decoder. :confused:

So you would rather use an SA8300 with a $10,000 TV instead of it's internal tuner/MPEG decoder. :confused:

Actually, I would rather use a TiVo 3 with my Lumagen HDP and a $8,000 1080P Commerial Panel ;)

- Rich

Yup, and I'd rather drive a BMW but I can only afford a Honda Accord. :o

I can tell you that HD DVD looks excellent on my 657UY, so you can get an improvement for $500. Cable-card is good for Bedroom TV's, Tivo series 3 and sports and thats about it :p

- Rich

Well, $500 + new media! ;)

Well, $500 + new media! ;)

Sure and NetFlix. There are not that many movies that I wish to own ;)

- Rich

I'm not interested in renting from NetFlix or buying many DVDs?

I'd rather just stay on the couch and dial it up from home... :) so where are the two-way CableCARDs and DCR devices to go along with the $10,000 1080p PDP? :rolleyes:

Can anyone here confirm that the 65PX600U will come with dual NTSC and ATSC tuners? I posted on the 58" thread that the Panny provided specs suggested (unlike the new Pio 6070) that Panny will not include dual tuners; but I am left wondering if the new 1080p flagship is going to have the dual tuner upgrade. The other feature I haven't been able to confirm is dot by dot pixel mapping. Any info on these points would be much appreciated.

There is not yet any information available on the forthcoming 65" 1080p HDTV from Panny.
It is scheduled to be out later this Summer, ie September along with Panny's new BD player, and HDMI 1080p receiver.
I would suspect details in a month or two on this beauty.

http://bwclark.smugmug.com/photos/60982328-M.jpg

Can anyone here confirm that the 65PX600U will come with dual NTSC and ATSC tuners? I posted on the 58" thread that the Panny provided specs suggested (unlike the new Pio 6070) that Panny will not include dual tuners; but I am left wondering if the new 1080p flagship is going to have the dual tuner upgrade. The other feature I haven't been able to confirm is dot by dot pixel mapping. Any info on these points would be much appreciated.I don't know, but since I've heard nothing regarding this feature... I doubt it. It seems like many desired capabilities such as: dual NTSC/ATSC tuners, two-way CableCARD slot and IEEE 1394 will be included slowly over time to keep the buyer coming back... again & again & again. Unless some manufacturer "breaks the curve" and includes these features with their 1080p platform... don't look for the competition to do so either. IMO... the content providers, MSOs, STB makers, FCC and TV manufacturers all collude to forestall the inevitable, which is an open cable environment in which the consumer has a myriad of DCR devices to choose from. Time Warner will "rue the day" when Verizon FiOS TV becomes available because like they say: "payback is a B....!" ;)

There is not yet any information available on the forthcoming 65" 1080p HDTV from Panny.
It is scheduled to be out later this Summer, ie September along with Panny's new BD player, and HDMI 1080p receiver.
I would suspect details in a month or two on this beauty.

Ahh... the photo that became my laptop wallpaper. See is a beaut. :)

I'm sorta hoping one of the Panny *insiders* haunting this forum will ring in here. I have been vacillating between the commercial and consumer 65s (as well as the Pio 6070), but the scale is tipping more toward the consumer model at this point in time. I did end up taking an AVS sponsor up on their no obligation pre-order offer, to at least reserve a place in line for now. Native rez display of 1080p BluRay on a 65" PDP should keep me happy for some time to come.

I don't know, but since I've heard nothing regarding this feature... I doubt it. It seems like many desired capabilities such as: dual NTSC/ATSC tuners, two-way CableCARD slot and IEEE 1394 will be included slowly over time to keep the buyer coming back... again & again & again. <snip> yada, yada, yada...

No doubt most here would agree with the sentiment that we all want free and open choices now, but I must say your pedantic *drum beating* on this conspiracy theory of yours is getting a bit tiresome; especially when it has the net effect of derailing nearly every thread you impose it upon. No offense intended optivity, but I think all of us would appreciate it if you would kindly start your own thread on your pet topic, rather than disrupting a discussion about the subject line. Please don't reply to my post here (PM me if you must), just consider what I'm saying and move on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Getting back on topic....

Has anyone else pre-ordered a 65? Does September still seem to be the consensus shipping date?

No doubt most here would agree with the sentiment that we all want free and open choices now, but I must say your pedantic *drum beating* on this conspiracy theory of yours is getting a bit tiresome; especially when it has the net effect of derailing nearly every thread you impose it upon. No offense intended optivity, but I think all of us would appreciate it if you would kindly start your own thread on your pet topic, rather than disrupting a discussion about the subject line. Please don't reply to my post here (PM me if you must), just consider what I'm saying and move on.

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Getting back on topic....

Has anyone else pre-ordered a 65? Does September still seem to be the consensus shipping date?Sorry, I know I've been beating this drum a wee bit too much lately and you find it a "bit tiresome." :o

Just a reminder to wet the appetite for this panel. Photos of the 65" 1080p model, taken at a trade show (by the Honorable Captain Pike), on my web site:

Here Are Some Photos Of 65 1080p Plasma In Action (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/panasonic_65_1080p_plasma_shots)

Make sure to look at the photos choosing "original size" under the picture. Amazing detail, especially in the skin of the model.

Just a reminder to wet the appetite for this panel. Photos of the 65" 1080p model, taken at a trade show (by the Honorable Captain Pike), on my web site:

Here Are Some Photos Of 65 1080p Plasma In Action (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/panasonic_65_1080p_plasma_shots)

Make sure to look at the photos choosing "original size" under the picture. Amazing detail, especially in the skin of the model.

Wow. They look fantastic. I love the black bezel. Best looking consumer yet!

Also, Thanks Captian Pike!

- Rich

Just a reminder to wet the appetite for this panel. Photos of the 65" 1080p model, taken at a trade show (by the Honorable Captain Pike), on my web site:

Here Are Some Photos Of 65 1080p Plasma In Action (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/panasonic_65_1080p_plasma_shots)

Make sure to look at the photos choosing "original size" under the picture. Amazing detail, especially in the skin of the model.

Thanks Rick! By the way, how is the shadow detail and black level compared
to the SXRDs?

Thanks Rick! By the way, how is the shadow detail and black level compared
to the SXRDs?

I don't know as I've not seen the 1080p model in person.

"Captain Pike," who took the pictures, reported the the blacks on the images displayed at the show looked very deep and beautifully clean and noise-free.

I can tell you that HD DVD looks excellent on my 657UY

- Rich

How do poor dvds look? Watchable?

Just a reminder to wet the appetite for this panel. Photos of the 65" 1080p model, taken at a trade show (by the Honorable Captain Pike), on my web site:

Here Are Some Photos Of 65 1080p Plasma In Action (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/panasonic_65_1080p_plasma_shots)

Make sure to look at the photos choosing "original size" under the picture. Amazing detail, especially in the skin of the model.


Welcome back Rich. Hope all is well and wishing you a speedy recovery from your recent surgery. :)

Thanks for the photo link. The skin tones rendered on the model look great, as do the colorr and textures of the fruit display. These are the only pics I have seen of the display without the speakers and a table base mounted, and I'm thankful to find the silver cladding on the bottom is minimized to the extent that I no longer find it objectionable. I had been wrestling with this issue and considering stalling my planned purchase long enough to possibly hold out for the commercial version instead, but after seeing these pics it makes it easier to consider the consumer 65 instead.

How do poor dvds look? Watchable?

Is this one of those "what color were the white horses" question? :)

Nothing can make a Poor DVD look good, but since I use a Lumagen HDP scaler it looks as good as the scaler can make it. I was unhappy with the S-Video input from the panel, but the Component, HDMI, and DVI are very good.

- Rich

Welcome back Rich. Hope all is well and wishing you a speedy recovery from your recent surgery. :)
.

????

I think you may be mixing me up with another Rich. No recent surgery for me, fortunately.

Exept, of course, for this darned alien implant....makes me want plasma, plasma, plasma....

Welcome back Rich. Hope all is well and wishing you a speedy recovery from your recent surgery. :)
.

????

I think you may be mixing me up with another Rich. No recent surgery for me, fortunately.

Except, of course, for this darned alien implant....makes me want plasma, plasma, plasma....

????

I think you may be mixing me up with another Rich. No recent surgery for me, fortunately.

Except, of course, for this darned alien implant....makes me want plasma, plasma, plasma....

Oooopsss.... :o Sorry about that Rich; westa had mentioned "Rich" was out having jaw surgery in another thread; and I had somehow put it together that it was you he was talking about.

Can't help you with the alien implant either, as I may have been abducted by the very same aliens myself -- and there is no known cure -- except buying a bigger panel with greater resolution, which only provides temporary relief!! :D

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the other Rich. :)

I'm really debating pre-ordering one of these but would be much more comfortable doing so if we had an approximate shipping date and absolute confirmation that it will accept a 1080p signal via HDMI.

I'm really debating pre-ordering one of these but would be much more comfortable doing so if we had an approximate shipping date and absolute confirmation that it will accept a 1080p signal via HDMI.

If you can pre-order with no risk (i.e. the right to cancel anytime, without any costs incurred), then why not at least save a place in line? I don't think the demand is going to be that overwhelming, considering the associated price tag, but I suspect the initial supply of the big panels will be fairly tight. No doubt the waiting can be painful at times, but you are in good company, as waiting seems to be a way of life around here.

If you can pre-order with no risk (i.e. the right to cancel anytime, without any costs incurred), then why not at least save a place in line? I don't think the demand is going to be that overwhelming, considering the associated price tag, but I suspect the initial supply of the big panels will be fairly tight. No doubt the waiting can be painful at times, but you are in good company, as waiting seems to be a way of life around here.

That's a good idea, thanks.

Oooopsss.... :o Sorry about that Rich; westa had mentioned "Rich" was out having jaw surgery in another thread; and I had somehow put it together that it was you he was talking about.

Can't help you with the alien implant either, as I may have been abducted by the very same aliens myself -- and there is no known cure -- except buying a bigger panel with greater resolution, which only provides temporary relief!! :D

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the other Rich. :)

Westa's mention of "jaw surgery" is an unfortunate event that happens to many unsuspecting people when they quickly come upon a 1080p FP display playing HD video movies. It's a dangerous world out there!:D

If you can pre-order with no risk (i.e. the right to cancel anytime, without any costs incurred), then why not at least save a place in line? I don't think the demand is going to be that overwhelming, considering the associated price tag, but I suspect the initial supply of the big panels will be fairly tight. No doubt the waiting can be painful at times, but you are in good company, as waiting seems to be a way of life around here.

So where is a good place to "wait in line" for this panel?

marc

According to this article in Twice, it looks like the Th-65PX600U and 1st gen BD players are going to miss HDMI 1.3, by about 3 months.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6345214.html

According to this article in Twice, it looks like the Th-65PX600U and 1st gen BD players are going to miss HDMI 1.3, by about 3 months.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6345214.html


Not sure this can truly be concluded from that article alone, as the shipping date for the 65/600 has not actually been confirmed, as best I can tell. The article also mentioned that: "the 1.3 standard is days away from approval and Silicon Image is sampling HDMI 1.3 chips". They did mention that: "The first product incorporating an HDMI 1.3 connector is expected to be the Blu-ray-based PlayStation 3, due in November from Sony.", but they did not mention the Panny display or coming BD player. However, I suspect that you may very well be right, as not even PS 3 has actually been confirmed as being capable of outputting 1080p. Who knows, maybe the first 1.3 1080p Panny will be the commercial panel?

So where is a good place to "wait in line" for this panel?

marc

I pre-ordered with Hideflifestyle during the PB that was posted here earlier in the month. Dunno if that is still an option, as the links and associated thread were removed this week. You might try calling; the store can be found @ theirname.com.

Not sure this can truly be concluded from that article alone, as the shipping date for the 65/600 has not actually been confirmed, as best I can tell. The article also mentioned that: "the 1.3 standard is days away from approval and Silicon Image is sampling HDMI 1.3 chips". They did mention that: "The first product incorporating an HDMI 1.3 connector is expected to be the Blu-ray-based PlayStation 3, due in November from Sony.", but they did not mention the Panny display or coming BD player. However, I suspect that you may very well be right, as not even PS 3 has actually been confirmed as being capable of outputting 1080p. Who knows, maybe the first 1.3 1080p Panny will be the commercial panel?

The real question is Silicon Image the sole supplier for HDMI chips. If they are then the article pretty much speaks for itself. Panny could have another source. I do not know the answers to these.

The real question is Silicon Image the sole supplier for HDMI chips. If they are then the article pretty much speaks for itself. Panny could have another source. I do not know the answers to these.

Interesting point to consider, but are any other mfg licensed to produce the chips besides SI? The article also said:

"The companies developing the HDMI 1.3 spec are Hitachi, Matsushita, Royal Philips, Silicon Image, Sony, Thomson and Toshiba. All are founding members of HDMI Licensing, now a wholly owned subsidiary of Silicon Image."

So I'm not sure how willing SI would be to license the HDMI technology, and whether that mfg would be allowed to rollout product first.

Few things...

First, we're still offering (and will continue to) the powerbuy pricing to AVS members. Please call us or PM me for the link to the AVS models.

Second, Silicon Imaging is the company that the forementioned companies have chosen to produce the HDMI 1.3 chips/connectors... They will supply these to all members of the HDMI consortium. Its up to Sony, Panny, Toshiba, etc to then rollout their models as fast as they see fit.

FYI: The other important player in the HDMI spec is the HDCP spec. That one is Intel's fault:
http://www.digital-cp.com/home ;)

The consumer unit was comming out in the summer (I thought). Now it looks like the fall with an expected price of $8k:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/06/22/panasonic_blu_ray_home_theater/

Ideally, customers should consider Panasonic's TH-65PX600 65" plasma display, which is expected to be available as well in September for about $8000.

The 'fall' term was used in Panny's own press release:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/PressroomHome?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&catGroupId=30531

Panasonic will also debut its first 1080P-capable 65-inch Plasma display (TH-65PX600) in fall 2006.

Not really new news, but some nonetheless. No word on the commercial unit

$8K? That is news to me. Great news! Thanks.

This is also interesting:

"Technical data are scarce at this time; however, descriptions at online shops currently indicate that the DMP-BD10 will include the HDMI 1.3 interface, which was announced today and will be providing a greater bandwidth and color capacity than the current HDMI 1.1 devices. We were not able to confirm this claim, but it would be an explanation for the high price of the player."

My plans are for the 65PX600U 1080p HDTV; the Panny Blu-ray DVD; and the new Panny receiver combo setup. At $8k + $1.3k + $1k = $10.3k .... I'll sign on the dotted line at my local shop. :D

This is also interesting:

"Technical data are scarce at this time; however, descriptions at online shops currently indicate that the DMP-BD10 will include the HDMI 1.3 interface, which was announced today and will be providing a greater bandwidth and color capacity than the current HDMI 1.1 devices. We were not able to confirm this claim, but it would be an explanation for the high price of the player."

My plans are for the 65PX600U 1080p HDTV; the Panny Blu-ray DVD; and the new Panny receiver combo setup. At $8k + $1.3k + $1k = $10.3k .... I'll sign on the dotted line at my local shop. :D

The $64k question still remains...

Will the 65PX600U have an HMDI 1.3 input to make full use of the 1.3 output from their BluRay player?

The consumer unit was comming out in the summer (I thought). Now it looks like the fall with an expected price of $8k:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/06/22/panasonic_blu_ray_home_theater/

Ideally, customers should consider Panasonic's TH-65PX600 65" plasma display, which is expected to be available as well in September for about $8000.

The 'fall' term was used in Panny's own press release:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/PressroomHome?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&catGroupId=30531

Panasonic will also debut its first 1080P-capable 65-inch Plasma display (TH-65PX600) in fall 2006.

Not really new news, but some nonetheless. No word on the commercial unit

$8K sounds like a great price for the TH-65PX600. I guess we'll have to wait and see if it is accurate.

Also, the link to the Panasonic site has a press release from earlier this month of the 9-Series commercial displays. There is no mention of a 65" unit in this line. That is interesting. Will the 65" be consumer only??

I just read the Panasonic official DMP-BD10 player release at the link above and found it interesting that they stated:

"Extraordinary Image -- Panasonic’s proprietary P4HD technology performs IP conversion at the pixel level for the finest details. In addition the DMP-BD10 incorporates a 296MHz, 14bit Video D/A Converter that provides high quality 4x oversampling for 1080i/720p output."

What, no 1080p output? Typo?

Yet the same release mentions:

"Backward Capability -- Plays a variety of optical discs including DVDs and CDs and up-converts video playback from DVDs to 1080P, by using HDMI."

Nice to see the DMP-BD10 is not the one trick pony that the Sony player is.

The $64k question still remains...

Will the 65PX600U have an HMDI 1.3 input to make full use of the 1.3 output from their BluRay player?

The critical component of this article is "Descriptions at online shops currently indicate that the DMP-BD10 will include HDMI 1.3" How often are early descriptions of products by online shops accurate? Hell, one online shop had an innacurate MSRP on the 65/600U and a picture of a totally different Plasma.

Also, the link to the Panasonic site has a press release from earlier this month of the 9-Series commercial displays. There is no mention of a 65" unit in this line. That is interesting. Will the 65" be consumer only??

Yes, your are right, interestingly RichB gave some inside info that the commercial model is called TH-65PF9UK.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=682757

The critical component of this article is "Descriptions at online shops currently indicate that the DMP-BD10 will include HDMI 1.3" How often are early descriptions of products by online shops accurate? Hell, one online shop had an innacurate MSRP on the 65/600U and a picture of a totally different Plasma.

Point taken and I did note the article repeating an incorrect MSRP on the 65. There was another article today on the new 1.3 connectors (and mini 1.3s) that mentioned the new Sony XBR RP sets are shipping with 1.3 inputs; so who knows if others don't also follow suit in readiness for the BD players with 1.3 output. All this uncertainty makes one pause to consider, if your about to pull the trigger on something right about now.

I can't imagine a $8k display not having HDMI 1.3 given they are just hitting the streets.

I can't imagine a $8k display not having HDMI 1.3 given they are just hitting the streets.

Well the thought of paying paying 8k for a display with no 1.3 is a serious enough issue with me, that I asked the dealer I pre-ordered with to see if he can get the scoop on the 1.3 issue from Panasonic. I'll pass along whatever he finds out from his inquiry.

Well the thought of paying paying 8k for a display with no 1.3 is a serious enough issue with me, that I asked the dealer I pre-ordered with to see if he can get the scoop on the 1.3 issue from Panasonic. I'll pass along whatever he finds out from his inquiry.

I think all you need to worry about is that it takes 1080P and has defeatable over-scan to get a 1:1 pixel map.

What use is there in sending bitsteam audio codecs to the display's speakers. What you need is a receiver/preamp that accepts the new audio codecs and decodes them. Then who cares what it passes to the TV speakers?

- Rich

I think all you need to worry about is that it takes 1080P and has defeatable over-scan to get a 1:1 pixel map.

What use is there in sending bitsteam audio codecs to the display's speakers. What you need is a receiver/preamp that accepts the new audio codecs and decodes them. Then who cares what it passes to the TV speakers?

- Rich

I have a 7.2 surround sound speaker system, so I have zero interest in "sending bitsteam audio codecs to the display's speakers". My concerns about the 1.3 input (as it relates to this thread) has nothing to do with the audio side of the equation. The 1.3 connector will boosts bandwidth to 10.2Gbps from 4.95Gbps and deepen color bit depth to 48-bit RGB from 24-bit. If the information about the BD players (like the Panny unit talked about above for example) with 1.3 connectors is correct, then they will have more video information to pass along than a 1.1 connection can deliver. If I am willing to throw down for a 1080p PDP, then I would like to have the PQ enhancements that will be part of 1.3 as well.

From what I understand v1.3 has more audio upgrades than video (DTS-HD and a new Dolby standard). v1.1 should be equally capable of 1080p because the standard has always supported it, just no companies have made anything that use it because there is no source until BD comes out. i think there are a few sets out now that take 1080p over HDMI

From what I understand v1.3 has more audio upgrades than video (DTS-HD and a new Dolby standard). v1.1 should be equally capable of 1080p because the standard has always supported it, just no companies have made anything that use it because there is no source until BD comes out. i think there are a few sets out now that take 1080p over HDMI

If we look at the feautures listed by HDMI.org (the definitive reference) you will see that they actually list the addition of the lossless audio formats dead last on their list; and when compared to the video benefits of v1.3, the audio upgrades appear to be relatively minor enhancements. Don't get me wrong, I am excited about Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, but they are not the most significant improvements v1.3 will bring.

From HDMI.org, here is their summation of what improvements v1.3 includes:

Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future high definition display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.

Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.

Lets HDTVs and other displays go from million of colors to billions of colors.
Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors.
Enables increased contrast ratio
Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white
At 30-bit pixel depth, a four times improvement would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more.

Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 removes all limits on color selection

Next-generation “xvYCC” color space supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals
Lets HDTVs display colors more accurately
Enables displays with natural, vivid colors

New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.

Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic video/audio synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with total accuracy.

New lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD.

Yes, your are right, interestingly RichB gave some inside info that the commercial model is called TH-65PF9UK.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=682757

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thread. Thanks, AJ. It's been two weeks since anyone has posted to it, so I guess that's why.


There was another article today on the new 1.3 connectors...

Alright, dumb question time. Will HDMI 1.3 utilize the same cables / connectors as the current HDMI spec? I'd hate to think the 50' cable I ran inside my walls will be useless.

The HDMI 1.3 spec's sound amazing but damn we wait and wait for 1080P inputs and now yet another wait for 1.3 HDMI? Is there some reason Panasonic and other partners in 1.3 have to wait behind Sony PS3 to use 1.3? What kind of sense does that make? If it's a partnership it doesn't place Sony in charge of the release other than it would be the biggest Press Release news for marketing 1.3 and they seem to have chosen it as the focus but I cannot imagine Panasonic throwiing their 1080P PDP onto the market withot 1.3. JMO but it seems they'll use PS3 as a marketing tool for 1.3 but it doesn't prevent others from t's use in advance and it's not as if they just starting working on 1.3 yesterday.

May be wishful thinking to get both but I cannot imagine 1.3 partners politely waiting in line behind King Sony - what kind of sense does that make? :)

Westa:

I will be absolutely amazed if 1.3 isnt on these 65" panels. I think it is one reason why the big units have been pushed off so far this calandar year.

My concern is whether these panels can accept 1080p signals over HDMI and can do 72hz refresh.

Time will tell.

Westa:

I will be absolutely amazed if 1.3 isnt on these 65" panels. I think it is one reason why the big units have been pushed off so far this calandar year.

My concern is whether these panels can accept 1080p signals over HDMI and can do 72hz refresh.

Time will tell.

I would be amazed and thrilled if 1.3 were include, but I would guess not. These companies are fairly conservative. I would imaging that to a large extent the processing is really in the Panel and the HMDI blade in an I/O board, so there would have to be hooks in the panel and its video processing to handle these signals and that is doubtful.

- Rich

Thanks RichB.

Even if these companies are conservative the they are releasing bleeding edge 1080p panels, so there is some hope. Also, can you elaborate why a new blade just wont do the trick?

"The SA-XR700 receiver features three HDMI v1.2a connectors "
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6346379.html

If the receiver has HDMI v1.2a then likely the 65PX600U will have it? :o

Thanks RichB.

Even if these companies are conservative the they are releasing bleeding edge 1080p panels, so there is some hope. Also, can you elaborate why a new blade just wont do the trick?


Ok. But this is just educated guessing on my part. The current panels have 10 bit processing, but a video processor has to maintain that signal throughout the chain. Video processing should have extra bits so that adjustments made to your picture setting do not cause rounding errors. The more processing of the signal the greater the need for exta bits. For example, put up a DVE smooth grayscale pattern. You will still see some banding. If you change the black level a nd contrast, the banding moves to different levels in the screen but is still present. I believe this is caused by some limitations in the panels video processing.

The newest Panasonic panels are said to use 16 bit processing which should help. But HD DVDs do not include 30 bit color. So while the HDMI can handle wonderful things, DVD, HD DVD, BD, broadcast, and satellite do not have this color depth. So if it is not in any source and there is are not enough bits in the Panel to handle it what you have is a 4 inch pipe fed by a garden hose.

- Rich

It is true that sources are only 8bit YCbCr. However, video processing does a lot of things:

- deinterlacing
- scaling
- noise reduction
- color space conversion from YCbCr to RGB
- and more ...

Some of these things result in more than 8bit, if you want to avoid rounding errors. A simple color space conversion from YCbCr to RGB would already benefit from having more than 8bits for RGB. So I do see some sense in DeepColor.

However, I doubt that the plasmas coming out this fall will already have HDMI 1.3, unfortunately.

Thanks Madshi, probably a good guess on your part.

It is true that sources are only 8bit YCbCr. However, video processing does a lot of things:

- deinterlacing
- scaling
- noise reduction
- color space conversion from YCbCr to RGB
- and more ...

Some of these things result in more than 8bit, if you want to avoid rounding errors. A simple color space conversion from YCbCr to RGB would already benefit from having more than 8bits for RGB. So I do see some sense in DeepColor.

However, I doubt that the plasmas coming out this fall will already have HDMI 1.3, unfortunately.

Do we know if the HDMI boards currently accept 4:2:2 colorspace which may be an improvement?

- Rich

Do we know if the HDMI boards currently accept 4:2:2 colorspace which may be an improvement?
You can't transport 4:2:0 over DVI/HDMI, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, 4:2:2 is the minimum what HDMI allows. RGB is always 4:4:4 over HDMI. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

A couple of thoughts here...

So if it is not in any source and there is are not enough bits in the Panel to handle it what you have is a 4 inch pipe fed by a garden hose.

First, let's try a better plumbing comparsion: With v1.3, we are doubling the single-link bandwidth [165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps)], which means we are now going from a max 1" pipe to a max 2" pipe; which is not nearly the same thing as a going from a garden hose to 4" pipe. I'm not trying to pick nits with Rich here, but I do think keeping the perspective on the degree of change more correct is important for understanding just how probable available source material that will utilize the extra bandwidth in the near-term really is. The notion that there is no need to for the 2" inlet pipe in a display, simply because we currently don't have any sources that are currently pushing out enough data to currently fill a 2" pipe, strikes me as being a bit short-sighted, given the expectation of higher bandwidth sources coming to market over the next few years.

Even in the short-term, the bandwidth continues to increase. Reading the specs on the new Panasonic BD player posted just yesterday, Panny stated they have a 296MHz, 14bit Video D/A Converter; and a non-Panasonic source said it will have a v1.3 connection. Pioneer has pushed out its rollout date for their BD player, with some speculation being that they want to include v1.3 HDMI. I have also read that the newest Sony XBR RP displays are shipping with v1.3 connections.

Longer term, we know the Japanese are already a generation ahead with routing fat pipes for bandwidths and resolution standards that dwarfs our current HD standards. Does anyone honestly believe they will not be working toward providing successive generations of higher bandwidth sources? If they build the hardware, the source material will surely follow.

A simple color space conversion from YCbCr to RGB would already benefit from having more than 8bits for RGB.

Part of the new v1.3 standards also involve making changes to the color space, so that the extra bits will be more fully utilized than was possible with v1.1.

From the HDMI.org FAQ, here are a couple of snippets that address these changes:

Q: What is meant by the term “Deep Color” and why is it important?
Deep Color lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors allowing consumers to enjoy unprecedented vividness and accuracy of color on their displays. Deep Color eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors. It enables increased contrast ratio, and can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white.

Q: What is “xvYCC”?
HDMI 1.3 adopts use of the IEC 61966-2-4 color standard, commonly called xvYCC (shorthand for Extended YCC Colorimetry for Video Applications). This new standard can support 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals. xvYCC lets HDTVs display colors more accurately, enabling displays with more natural, vivid colors .

Q: What is the difference between “Deep Color” and “xvYCC?”
Deep Color increases the number of available colors within the boundaries defined by the RGB or YCbCr color space, while xvYCC expands the available range (limits) to allow the display of colors that meet and exceed what human eyes can recognize.

;) A couple of thoughts here...

First, let's try a better plumbing comparsion: With v1.3, we are doubling the single-link bandwidth [165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps)], which means we are now going from a max 1" pipe to a max 2" pipe; which is not nearly the same thing as a going from a garden hose to 4" pipe. I'm not trying to pick nits with Rich here, but I do think keeping the perspective on the degree of change more correct is important for understanding just how probable available source material that will utilize the extra bandwidth in the near-term really is. The notion that there is no need to for the 2" inlet pipe in a display, simply because we currently don't have any sources that are currently pushing out enough data to currently fill a 2" pipe, strikes me as being a bit short-sighted, given the expectation of higher bandwidth sources coming to market over the next few years.



You are correct. It was an analogy, I was merely pointing out if the bandwidth exceeds the source and the destination, there may not be that much benefit for this generation panel. We will have to wait and see.

Even in the short-term, the bandwidth continues to increase. Reading the specs on the new Panasonic BD player posted just yesterday, Panny stated they have a 296MHz, 14bit Video D/A Converter; and a non-Panasonic source said it will have a v1.3 connection. Pioneer has pushed out its rollout date for their BD player, with some speculation being that they want to include v1.3 HDMI. I have also read that the newest Sony XBR RP displays are shipping with v1.3 connections.

Longer term, we know the Japanese are already a generation ahead with routing fat pipes for bandwidths and resolution standards that dwarfs our current HD standards. Does anyone honestly believe they will not be working toward providing successive generations of higher bandwidth sources? If they build the hardware, the source material will surely follow.

Part of the new v1.3 standards also involve making changes to the color space, so that the extra bits will be more fully utilized than was possible with v1.1.

From the HDMI.org FAQ, here are a couple of snippets that address these changes:

Q: What is meant by the term “Deep Color” and why is it important?
Deep Color lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors allowing consumers to enjoy unprecedented vividness and accuracy of color on their displays. Deep Color eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors. It enables increased contrast ratio, and can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white.

Q: What is “xvYCC”?
HDMI 1.3 adopts use of the IEC 61966-2-4 color standard, commonly called xvYCC (shorthand for Extended YCC Colorimetry for Video Applications). This new standard can support 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals. xvYCC lets HDTVs display colors more accurately, enabling displays with more natural, vivid colors .

Q: What is the difference between “Deep Color” and “xvYCC?”
Deep Color increases the number of available colors within the boundaries defined by the RGB or YCbCr color space, while xvYCC expands the available range (limits) to allow the display of colors that meet and exceed what human eyes can recognize.

I welcome the new standard and color depth but it is kind of amsuing that when it comes to compression and encoding the color information is reduced to less than RGB 4:4:4, but then it must be transmitted with HDMI 1.3 to get the new expanded color information :rolleyes: Apparently, two different marketing organizations. ;)

- Rich

You can't transport 4:2:0 over DVI/HDMI, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, 4:2:2 is the minimum what HDMI allows. RGB is always 4:4:4 over HDMI. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Right. 4:2:2 is correct. I am getting that now from the HD-A1 into the Lumagen and you know I do think it looks better, but since I cannot compare them side by side, it is tough to prove. Though, If it is better, it is because of the Lumagen.

- Rich

Unpleasant comments in the latest Panasonic press release. It's mostly about Blu-Ray, but this line is in there:

"Panasonic will also debut its first 1080P-capable 65-inch Plasma display (TH-65PX600) in fall 2006."

Don't like the sound of Fall 2006. I had heard rumors of July. Argh!

You are correct. It was an analogy, I was merely pointing out if the bandwidth exceeds the source and the destination, there may not be that much benefit for this generation panel. We will have to wait and see.

I hope you didn't find my correction offensive Rich, as that was not my intent. I was just trying to help better quantify the extent of the changes, so that our casual readers here didn't conclude the changes were on the order of 8:1, rather than the easier to fathom actual 2:1 increase that v1.3 brings.


I welcome the new standard and color depth but it is kind of amsuing that when it comes to compression and encoding the color information is reduced to less than RGB 4:4:4, but then it must be transmitted with HDMI 1.3 to get the new expanded color information :rolleyes: Apparently, two different marketing organizations. ;)

If we can't get agreement on a single united standard for the new HD disc source, it is none too surprising (to me) that these two other important standard bearers can't compare notes a little better either.

I hope you didn't find my correction offensive Rich, as that was not my intent. I was just trying to help better quantify the extent of the changes, so that our casual readers here didn't conclude the changes were on the order of 8:1, rather than the easier to fathom actual 2:1 increase that v1.3 brings.


No problem. It is great to have these discussions. I am posting here to help put some things in perspective. While I love my Plasma, there are limitations in my 7 series and I am sure some that limit its absolute performance so, even if you have 1.3 HDMI you may not notice the difference.

BTW, if I can afford it and have a buyer for my current panel, I will likely upgrade my 65 regardless of what version HDMI it has. Better grayscale tracking and improved resolution are enough for me :)

- Rich

Westa:

I will be absolutely amazed if 1.3 isnt on these 65" panels. I think it is one reason why the big units have been pushed off so far this calandar year.

My concern is whether these panels can accept 1080p signals over HDMI and can do 72hz refresh.

Time will tell.
I would guess PS3 would get the press when you think about it they have to have about 6 million of these installed for the initial World distribution in Mid November and it's likely the inital large panels requiring these wil comparatively be in ltd distribution but with the frenzy PS3 will create after all these years that is where the focus will be with 1.3 but they have no Exclusivity Contract and it's not proprietary component if in fact it was a partnership and that partnership includes Matsushita and they aren't about to take a backseat to Sony and you can bet they want to pair their BD and receiver with the 65" 1080P as it becomes the Flagship for Panasonic and what evolves in the future for them. Sony has to prep around 6 million and then keep ramping up millions whereas this panel will involve perhaps miniscule numbers.

Unlikely Panasonic will sit on the sidelines and let Sony and PS3 grab the bounty of 1.3 it's a matter of it will be the press attention getter much like X360 last year but the PS3 has a much larger Consumer Base world wide than Xbox or any Specialty PDP. Well just things to ponder as we wait and wait . . . :)

It looks like things are getting a little closer. These speakers, SB-TP1000, along with the SA-XR700 reciever) were announced by Panasonic to be used with the upcomming display. MSRP on them is $3k. Linky. (http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/2006/06/panasonic_bluray_player_wrecei.php)



http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/upload/2006/06/060623_panny_speakers.jpg

Yikes!!! The price on those speakers make my ears ring! Whom ever buys this setup w/their 65"er can definitely be labeled a "Panny Fanboy"!!:D

I would think that $3K for speakers and receiver on a $8K-$10K display is low.

It would be interesting to find out how much people who are considering this display have in the audio side of their system.

I havent made up my mind on the speakers, but a pair of slim lines for my mains does help with the space crunch I have to deal with. Oh boy, another research investigation to start...

Typically, people get plasmas for their form factor and now, picture quality, but what do you do with all the other stuff?? Even if you have your cable box, DVD player, receiver etc. in an equipment closet, you still have to deal with the speakers.

I havent made up my mind on the speakers, but a pair of slim lines for my mains does help with the space crunch I have to deal with. Oh boy, another research investigation to start...

Not toget too OT, but you've got your work cut out for you. If you think choosing a display is tough, just wait till you start wading into the depths of Audio Speakers. AVS has great Forums for this as well. Have fun!

http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/upload/2006/06/060623_panny_speakers.jpg

I already own a complete 7.2 speaker setup, but even if I was in the market for a new surround sound system, I wouldn't willingly choose to have a speaker system in my living room that was inspired by Stonehenge :D

Did anyone else notice this system has no center channel? Although the marketing boys have spun this absence of a center channel as a feature dubbed "Twin Center Speaker Technology"; it is in truth, really just a phantom center channel setup.

I am probably contributing to the problem, but can we please try to get back on topic here and focus mainly on things more directly related to the 65" 1080p Panny PDP?

<snip>the frenzy PS3 will create after all these years that is where the focus will be with 1.3 but they have no Exclusivity Contract and it's not proprietary component if in fact it was a partnership and that partnership includes Matsushita and they aren't about to take a backseat to Sony and you can bet they want to pair their BD and receiver with the 65" 1080P as it becomes the Flagship for Panasonic and what evolves in the future for them. Sony has to prep around 6 million and then keep ramping up millions whereas this panel will involve perhaps miniscule numbers.

An interesting thought to ponder Westa; and one I hadn't really fully considered. The number of chips needed for the flagship PDP is tiny by comparison the PS3 rollout requirements. This, along with the reports that the gen2 SXRD RP Sony displays are shipping with v1.3 connections does give me some hope for the Panny 65s having v1.3 as well. Like Sony wanting the v1.3 for the PS3, I do think Panny similarly wants v1.3 for their BD player. The recently released DMP-BD10 player spec for a 296MHz, 14bit Video D/A Converter also bodes well for the possibility that the 65/600 will ship with a v1.3 chip on board.

Panasonic is the same company that brought us the "Thrusters". Yeah, they are a really awesome speaker mfr... :rolleyes:

Holy freight!! Well it had better be, for what I just noticed Broadway Photo was asking in shipping charges for the TH-65PX600U; it was a staggering $869.93 (!!) :eek: , on top of a MSRP(?) of $10,999. I am thankful that Hideflifestyle has a FAR more reasonable $150 shipping charge attached to my pre-order, with a considerably better AVS member pricing (e-mail them for details). Anyone else get shipping estimates for the 65-inch beast?

Holy freight!! Well it had better be, for what I just noticed Broadway Photo was asking in shipping charges for the TH-65PX600U; it was a staggering $869.93 (!!) :eek: , on top of a MSRP(?) of $10,999. I am thankful that Hideflifestyle has a FAR more reasonable $150 shipping charge attached to my pre-order, with a considerably better AVS member pricing (e-mail them for details). Anyone else get shipping estimates for the 65-inch beast?
At that delivery fee- A chicken ranch babe should be included with delivery for reality 1080P or a group experience. ;)

Also hoping for quick wide distibution of HDMI 1.3 as it's lack has some folks panicking and I cannot imagine Panny debuting this one of a kind panel without it at this stage.

At that delivery fee- A chicken ranch babe should be included with delivery for reality 1080P or a group experience. ;)

For the money saved at Hidef (vs. Broadway) , I can afford to *rent* a harem of my own chicken ranch girls for a little un-wrap party at my place; and let the fun happen by the light of two million pixels!! :D

Also hoping for quick wide distibution of HDMI 1.3 as it's lack has some folks panicking and I cannot imagine Panny debuting this one of a kind panel without it at this stage.

You ain't a kiddin'... And I do think you may very well be right about v1.3 shipping with the new Panny flagship model; which would (of course) pair very nicely with their new BD player. :)

Zara:

Just check delivery prices of the current 65" 8UK plasma. I certainly did. It helped me ballpark an realistic value. The average delivery price from reputable online places gave me about $375 for five-day and $550 two-day.

Zara:

Just check delivery prices of the current 65" 8UK plasma. I certainly did. It helped me ballpark an realistic value. The average delivery price from reputable online places gave me about $375 for five-day and $550 two-day.

Actually, I did that very thing, as they are the same basic form factor; and although I haven't see a weight spec on the 65/600, I'll bet they are not all that far apart. Interestingly enough, I did notice Costco was charging $300 for delivery on the 65/8UK, but it looks like they have reduced that to just $220. I just checked the weight spec and the 65/8UK is listed at 172 lbs.. The shipping price at Hidef does look good, but I suspect the delivery time (I didn't ask) will likely be more than a week coming.

BTW,

For us Canucks (especially Torontonians) the consumer TH-65PX600U model is now listed on the Vistek site (who tend to deal a lot in business presentation products).


Here. (http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=224685&CategoryID=PlasmaLCDScreens)

MRSP: $14,999.00 CDN.

So no mystery about the CDN price (matches what I've been told elsewhere). That baby, or the industrial model, will have to come well down in price before I jump (if I can't wait I may jump into projection).

BTW, it lists the contrast ratio as 10,000:1, like the new smaller non-1080p models.
I've seen that spec associated with the TH-65PX600U on other web sites as well, although I'm thinking it may be a misprint because I believe the 1080p model was spec'd at 3000:1 (unless something has changed....anyone?....)

The TH-58PX60 58" model is listed on the site as well, at $6,999.00 MRSP.

(MRSPs are ok to post, right?)

Rich:

I am very (very) surprised at the price listed. That link doesnt say that it is MSRP though, it just gives a value. Also, a recent AVS PowerBuy had it listed at 40% lower than what Vistek is showing. This leads me to believe that $10k is still the target.

Jack,

Rich is referring to Canadian prices which involves the exchange rate.

Jack,

Rich is referring to Canadian prices which involves the exchange rate.

Yeah, I did the currency conversion before I posted (14,999.00 CAD = 13,341.33 USD). The power buy is/was 40% lower than the USD converted price.

Thanks for posting the link Rich. If those specs are to be believed (and I sure hope they are), then I finally have confirmation that the 65/600 has "Dual ATSC & NTSC Tuners". If the v1.3 HDMI (or not) question is answered afirmatively, then I think I'm *all in* now. I do feel for my Canadian friends here, as the pre-order price I got (from the above mentioned PB) finally makes the dream of a 65" 1080p PDP within reach for me.

Rich:

I am very (very) surprised at the price listed. That link doesnt say that it is MSRP though, it just gives a value. Also, a recent AVS PowerBuy had it listed at 40% lower than what Vistek is showing. This leads me to believe that $10k is still the target.

That powerbuy figure is encouraging...I suppose...if you live in the US. All the quotes I've got from Canadian sellers have been the same as the one I just posted. (Last year's consumer 720p model 65" was asking $20,000 here!)

It's also a drag that there are indications Panasonic is no longer giving a price break for the industrial versions either. :(

Yeah, I did the currency conversion before I posted (14,999.00 CAD = 13,341.33 USD). The power buy is/was 40% lower than the USD converted price.Interesting, that a quick google search for the TH-65PX600 indicates a September 2006 release date with this PDP initially priced at $8K+ (e.g. SOFTPEDIA) (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Panasonic-Launched-a-Sky-Rocketing-Priced-HD-Home-Theatre-27502.shtml). While some web sites "claim" this TV will include dual tuners, etc., even though Panasonic has revealed no detailed specifications, and one of their most current press releases only mentions the upcoming release of the 65" 600U:

Panasonic USA Pressroom 6/22/06 (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?catalogId=13251&storeId=11301&langId=-1&itemId=97748)

"Panasonic will also debut its first 1080P-capable 65-inch Plasma display (TH-65PX600) in fall 2006."

Yeah, that was posted last week. But the real question is the hush-hush on the commercial unit. No news on that puppy for a while...

That powerbuy figure is encouraging...I suppose...if you live in the US. All the quotes I've got from Canadian sellers have been the same as the one I just posted. (Last year's consumer 720p model 65" was asking $20,000 here!)
that canadian price is discouraging - am i also to assume that we can't order from the US from up here in toronto, rich? i've been waiting for this thing for a long time, and was all jazzed that we canucks would be able to pick them up for close to the US price - even closer as the exchange rate drops...

i would consider driving to a US location to pick one up...i wonder what the boxed dimensions for the thing are - i might have to rent a truck.

That powerbuy figure is encouraging...I suppose...if you live in the US. All the quotes I've got from Canadian sellers have been the same as the one I just posted. (Last year's consumer 720p model 65" was asking $20,000 here!)

I'm not suggesting doing anything illegal, but didn't someone here post a couple of times about picking up a display from the warranty station in northern NY (or some similar scheme... little fuzzy on the details here...) and then driving the panel back north to CA? Anything to prevent you from ordering the display and having it delivered to a fellow forumite and you renting a van and driving down on a day trip to pick it up? I suppose future service might be the fly in the ointment, but we really should be able to find a way for you (and our other Canadian friends) to take advantage of the better pricing available here.

It's also a drag that there are indications Panasonic is no longer giving a price break for the industrial versions either. :(

Yeah, a lot of people are bumming about that recent revelation. I do wonder how much slimmer the margins on consumer panels have become, if the lesser featured (i.e. minus speakers, tuners and HDMI inputs) commercial panel will be selling for nearly the same prices.

<snip>While some web sites "claim" this TV will include dual tuners, etc., even though Panasonic has revealed no detailed specifications, and one of their most current press releases only mentions the upcoming release of the 65" 600U:<snip>

While I'm hoping what I read on Vistek is correct, until we get the word straight from Panny, such info can't be considered more than just speculation at this point. But then again, mfg are sometimes not accurate in what info they do release; like the new gen Pio xx70, where I read in one of their own PDF docs that they would have the Pure mode on this non-Elite panel, it now turns out to be bad information provided by Pio. I really wish Panny would be a little more forthcoming on the 65/600 specs; I'm hoping the delay is so they can claim v1.3. For now, I will cling to my wishful thinking on the dual tuners, as I do find it hard to believe that this feature won't be found on the flagship model, especially with Pio showing it for their new non-Elite models.

Yeah, that was posted last week. But the real question is the hush-hush on the commercial unit. No news on that puppy for a while...The only specs I recall from Panasonic for the TH-65PX600(U?) was released in their press announcement during the CES 2006 Exhibition (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=95880&modelNo=Content01032006040018477&surfModel=Content01032006040018477). Is there anything more current from Panasonic regarding this TV?

This was posted earlier, but you already found it. Nothing else new as of yet ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7880434&&#post7880434

I'm not suggesting doing anything illegal, but didn't someone here post a couple of times about picking up a display from the warranty station in northern NY (or some similar scheme... little fuzzy on the details here...) and then driving the panel back north to CA? Anything to prevent you from ordering the display and having it delivered to a fellow forumite and you renting a van and driving down on a day trip to pick it up? I suppose future service might be the fly in the ointment, but we really should be able to find a way for you (and our other Canadian friends) to take advantage of the better pricing available here.
.

Yeah, remember that post as well, but can't recall the OP's name. Seems he ordered the display from Panasonic and had it delivered to their Service Center in upstate New York, whereby he paid a fee for them to check out all the pixels, etc. and tweek the panel. Then he drove down from Canada and picked it up. No muss no fuss, and a happy owner.

I'm aware of a pre-order site and I know they take a nominal fee for pre-order processing but I cannot vouch for them and damn I cannot mention price but it's nearly half of that Canadian MSRP so would the difference be TAX? ;)

Is there actually a genuine US MSRP?

Anyone familiar with "New York Wholesale Audio Video"?

I remember one person posting of complaining of being charge a pre-order nominal fee billed to their credit card but it does state it in their website policy. They also carry pre-order on the 57" Samsung LCD. The shipping estimate to where I live came out to $382.00 which isn't that much higher than others for a panel this size and weight and the weight of this thing is much heavier than normal.

I need to research further on these folks but my point is to try and give hope to the Canadians that those MSRP figures may be way out of line from the reality of when it debuts and what gives me cause to trust the pre-order estimate is they have the pre-order of the Samsung LCD 57" and it's right on target with half a dozen other dealers that have it so at least the pre-order on the Samsung matches and it's currently being distributed so their pricing is slightly higher than two people I know that've bought the Samsung LCD. Hold out Hope Canadians.:)

I'm aware of a pre-order site and I know they take a nominal fee for pre-order processing but I cannot vouch for them and damn I cannot mention price but it's nearly half of that Canadian MSRP so would the difference be TAX? ;)

Westa:

Are you referring to Hideflifestyle? If so, can you point to the reference about the "nominal fee for pre-order processing"? I did pre-order from them and checked my credit card and no such charge appears. Perhaps there was some sort of accommodation made for AVS members? As to vouching for them; I did speak to Alan Gouger on the phone about them; and he advised that he had checked them out, and they are very much a legit company.

Anyone familiar with "New York Wholesale Audio Video"?

I hate to paint everyone with the same brush, but the flake concentration in the A/V and photo biz there should make any AVSers 'spidey senses' tingle a bit. There was a link posted a while back with the actual store fronts that matched some online sellers, and I was shocked by how different my perception of them from web sites was from the reality of who they really were. This company only lists a "Warehouse / Office" address in the contact info provided. They accept no returns on big TVs and charge a 15% restocking fee for cancellations. Suffice it to say Westa, caveat emptor!

I just bought two power buy items from HiDef Life Style, a Harmony Remote and an HD DVD both great and great service from them and I waited a little for the HD DVD as most but worth the wait as now there is some inventory to view at Netflix and finally growing.

That other dealer would be a Caveat Emptor proposition but perhaps past members in NY able to check these folks out much like SHopSunshine sold the first SXRD delivered on the RPTV Forum before SonyStyle did and they sell on Ebay and legit NY warehouse and stores but pump up some of the services and push the extd warranties. I guess they removed what I posted as to who. My point was in demonstrating the potential real price as I know two folks that have bought the Samsung LNS-5797 at PCRichards in NY with similar costs as listed - it's not intended to solicit for them just to ID a pre-order that has a more realistic margin versus the Canadian MSRP listed earlier.

To Give Hope to those that have been patiently waiting since last summer on this and our Neighbors to the North.:)

I just bought two power buy items from HiDef Life Style, a Harmony Remote and an HD DVD both great and great service from them and I waited a little for the HD DVD as most but worth the wait as now there is some inventory to view at Netflix and finally growing.

They took some heat for the delay on the Toshiba HD DVD player, but unfortunately they couldn't control the distribution pecking order. As I understood it, a couple of big box stores got the lion's share first, and then later everyone else got their orders. Understandably frustrating for everyone.

That other dealer would be a Caveat Emptor proposition but perhaps past members in NY able to check these folks out much like SHopSunshine sold the first SXRD delivered on the RPTV Forum before SonyStyle did and they sell on Ebay and legit NY warehouse and stores but pump up some of the services and push the extd warranties. I guess they removed what I posted as to who.

Good point about Shopsunshine. I do recall looking in to them myself, when I had an interest in the SXRD. They did have far better pricing than almost anyone else on that display,which (of course) made most of us suspicious.

I was trying to be careful not to make a blanket statement about NY dealers, but I still think caution is especially warranted for the NYC area based companies. There are plenty of legit companies in NY state -- including our friends at AVS -- but the bad sales practices types do seem to be attracted to the anonymity store front city addresses afford their loathsome little companies.

If you wish to check the reliability of any retailer, try this site for feedback:

http://www.resellerratings.com/

If you wish to check the reliability of any retailer, try this site for feedback:

http://www.resellerratings.com/

While this site is sometimes a very useful resource (worth bookmarking IMO), in this case, New York Wholesale Audio Video is not listed with them. I'm not sure one should infer they are unreliable from this, but it doesn't help us to affirm their good standing (if true).

.

Whois research points to New Jersey home base and the Registrant address returns Uncle Stereo which matches the address on Whois through GoDaddy:

Uncle Stereo
1560-66 Hart Street
BLDG #1
Rahway, NJ 07065


This address is exactly the same as the NY Dealer and the site was registered in 2004 via GoDaddy but it provides no name of a person but everything matches betweeen the two so they are actually in New Jersey. Any NJ folks know of Uncles? :)

Also seems multiple sites and only name I could find is Mark Herman but they all use the same address and perhaps even more than this. DVDO site warns against buying from these stores as not being authorized but why would one need 5-6 or more names to do the same business? Looks to be a list to avoid.

Absolute Audio Video
Dependable Audio Video
New York Wholesale Audio Video
Elegant Audio Video
SurroundCity
digitalcraze.com

All located (internic registration) at 14 Self Blvd., Carteret, N.J. 07008

Also seems multiple sites and only name I could find is Mark Herman but they all use the same address and perhaps even more than this. DVDO site warns against buying from these stores as not being authorized but why would one need 5-6 or more names to do the same business?

Absolute Audio Video
Dependable Audio Video
New York Wholesale Audio Video
Elegant Audio Video

All located (internic registration) at 14 Self Blvd., Carteret, N.J. 07008

The profile pretty much matches the one I eluded to earlier. I did find the link for the NYC camera stores (some are A/V as well). Take a look here: http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/ to see more of what I'm talking about with these sort of businesses.

Whois research points to New Jersey home base and the Registrant address returns Uncle Stereo which matches the address on Whois through GoDaddy:

Uncle Stereo
1560-66 Hart Street
BLDG #1
Rahway, NJ 07065


This address is exactly the same as the NY Dealer and the site was registered in 2004 via GoDaddy but it provides no name of a person but everything matches betweeen the two so they are actually in New Jersey. Any NJ folks know of Uncles? :)

Also seems multiple sites and only name I could find is Mark Herman but they all use the same address and perhaps even more than this. DVDO site warns against buying from these stores as not being authorized but why would one need 5-6 or more names to do the same business? Looks to be a list to avoid.

Absolute Audio Video
Dependable Audio Video
New York Wholesale Audio Video
Elegant Audio Video
SurroundCity
digitalcraze

All located (internic registration) at 14 Self Blvd., Carteret, N.J. 07008

Yes, they are scam artists. Do NOT buy from any of these sites - I did, and they are guilty of the worst kind of scamming of their customers (selling used as new, ripping off serial numbers, delivering different products than ordered, just total slimeballs).

I am serious considering buying the 1080P 65 inch Panny as soon as it is released but I would like feedback from some of you that have experienced watching a 60 + Plasma TV.

Of course my NUMBER 1 REASON for getting this panel is for the HD broadcast but I would like to know if the SD TV programs are going to be watchable or not on this size panel. My viewing distance will be approximately 8 to 10 feet from the screen.

I currently sit that distance from my 53 inch RPTV and though the SD broadcasts PQ is not that great they certainly are watchable from that distance.

I prefer to watch HD most of the time but from time to time as most of you are aware some programs are only broadcast in SD and not HD.

Please let me know what some of you think my experience will be with sitting at this distance(8 to 10 feet) with SD programing. Are there any suggestions for me on how to improve my SD viewing experience on this 1080P panel? I am limited in my room space..........moving back farther is not an option. :(

Thanks for any feedback! :)

SD on any screen this size is going to look terrible. It's SD.

The best thing that can be done is to use an external VP in conjunction with the set. The VP will do all the scaling - way better than any cable box or sat reciever (that's assuming the Panny's scaler is inferior - which we don't know yet). There will be an improvement, but don't expect turning SD to HD. That isnt going to happen.

SD is something we are going to have to deal with - until things totally migrate to HD. Maybe that will happen in my second lifetime.

I am serious considering buying the 1080P 65 inch Panny as soon as it is released but I would like feedback from some of you that have experienced watching a 60 + Plasma TV.

Of course my NUMBER 1 REASON for getting this panel is for the HD broadcast but I would like to know if the SD TV programs are going to be watchable or not on this size panel. My viewing distance will be approximately 8 to 10 feet from the screen.

I currently sit that distance from my 53 inch RPTV and though the SD broadcasts PQ is not that great they certainly are watchable from that distance.

I prefer to watch HD most of the time but from time to time as most of you are aware some programs are only broadcast in SD and not HD.

Please let me know what some of you think my experience will be with sitting at this distance(8 to 10 feet) with SD programing. Are there any suggestions for me on how to improve my SD viewing experience on this 1080P panel? I am limited in my room space..........moving back farther is not an option. :(

Thanks for any feedback! :)

SD is something we are going to have to deal with - until things totally migrate to HD. Maybe that will happen in my second lifetime.

Not if you get directv in your next life... :sigh:

I'm actually hoping one of the terrorist states decides that taking out a couple of the existing directv satellites would deal a mortal blow to the Western way of life. *Maybe* then directv would put up a satellite with enough bandwidth to go all HD. Heck, maybe they'd even broadcast everything in 1080p just to show those bloody terrorists what happens when we *really* get p!ssed... :D

Not if you get directv in your next life... :sigh:

I'm actually hoping one of the terrorist states decides that taking out a couple of the existing directv satellites would deal a mortal blow to the Western way of life. *Maybe* then directv would put up a satellite with enough bandwidth to go all HD. Heck, maybe they'd even broadcast everything in 1080p just to show those bloody terrorists what happens when we *really* get p!ssed... :D

Presently, I've got pretty good cable, but after reading a article in USA Today, I'm more convinced that satellite holds out the best hope for HD purists. Cable has been waaay overloaded and their bandwidth squeezed & crammed to the limits w/internet, phone & TV service that there's little room for a less compressed signal. On the other hand, satellite has the capability to greatly expand their signal, and as new generation SATs go up, we'll hopefully see vast improvements in signal quality. Projections are that by 2010, over 65% of all household in the US will own HDTV's, and this will push the trend for better & better signal for all those 1080p displays.

SD on any screen this size is going to look terrible. It's SD.

The best thing that can be done is to use an external VP in conjunction with the set. The VP will do all the scaling - way better than any cable box or sat reciever (that's assuming the Panny's scaler is inferior - which we don't know yet). There will be an improvement, but don't expect turning SD to HD. That isnt going to happen.

An alternate option would be to buy an Anthem AVM-50 or their flagship Statement D2 pre/pro which includes the Gennum VXP processor (scaler), for which some have reported (see the Amp forum) having very good results with improving SD PQ by using the Anthem to process and display SD at 1080p. While certainly not a cheap products, the Anthem pre/pro is a high quality solution that eliminates the need for a separate external VP, for those willing to forgo some of the added 'tweakability' that an outboard box provides.

An alternate option would be to buy an Anthem AVM-50 or their flagship Statement D2 pre/pro which includes the Gennum VXP processor (scaler), for which some have reported (see the Amp forum) having very good results with improving SD PQ by using the Anthem to process and display SD at 1080p. While certainly not a cheap products, the Anthem pre/pro is a high quality solution that eliminates the need for a separate external VP, for those willing to forgo some of the added 'tweakability' that an outboard box provides.

Same point and result - different means. I'm more of a DVDO iScan kind of Guy (VP30 w/ de-interlacer card).

Can't wait for the VP50 that MadShi has been talking about.

Can't wait for the VP50 that MadShi has been talking about.
I think we should hear official VP50 specs in about 2 months (IFA + Cedia). Can't wait!!

Same point and result - different means. I'm more of a DVDO iScan kind of Guy (VP30 w/ de-interlacer card).

Can't wait for the VP50 that MadShi has been talking about.For the kind of money you guys are talking about... I'd rather buy a 30-foot-boat and float around Lake George (http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Lake+George,+NY) for the summer! :D

I'd even equip it with a "cheap" FP LCD TV. ;)

Can you believe the 1080p model has been available since November in Japan and we still can't get any reviews or reports on the thing? Sheesh. This is torturous.

I did turn up a couple Japanese websites that mentioned the Panny 1080p model had been selected for "Gold Awards" as best/most significant product or some such thing.

BTW, after owning a plasma placed on an articulated arm mount, I know I want that feature in my next plasma. It's just so amazingly convenient to be able to easily tilt the plasma to any viewing position, and pull it out closer for a more immersive feel when viewing high-quality sources.

Until recently there wasn't much available that would handle a 65 incher with much flexibility. But obviously with bigger sizes becoming more popular, the people making wall mounts are responding. Here is a terrific looking articulated wall mount from Chief made for plasmas up to 65". Seems to offer as much flexibility as one could want:

http://www.chiefmfg.com/store/detail/?product_id=80867

BTW, after owning a plasma placed on an articulated arm mount, I know I want that feature in my next plasma. It's just so amazingly convenient to be able to easily tilt the plasma to any viewing position, and pull it out closer for a more immersive feel when viewing high-quality sources.

Until recently there wasn't much available that would handle a 65 incher with much flexibility. But obviously with bigger sizes becoming more popular, the people making wall mounts are responding. Here is a terrific looking articulated wall mount from Chief made for plasmas up to 65". Seems to offer as much flexibility as one could want:

http://www.chiefmfg.com/store/detail/?product_id=80867

Here is another articulating option to consider for the 65/600:

http://www.superiortvmount.com/images/600_IMG_1059.JPG
Superior TV Mount - Heavy Duty

I have no affiliation with this company, but I have been much impressed with what I believe is notably better-than-average quality and a far more substantially constructed design. While the retail cost is higher ($849 vs. $999), the extra peace of mind when swinging around very nearly 200 lbs. of PDP would make it worth my while to spend just a bit more for. See them for yourself at: http://www.superiortvmount.com/

For comparison:

http://www.chiefmfg.com/client_files/www.chiefmfg.com/images/PDR_w_RESI_logo.jpg
Chief Mount - PDR Dual Arm

Thanks zaracsan.

BTW, the Panny 1080p model had originally stated 3000:1 contrast. Even when the "6" series models were announced a while ago with 10,000:1 contrast, the 1080p model was excepted from the claims of increased contrast, remaining at 3000:1. (BTW, manufacturer's exaggerations and number-cooking aside, the peak brightness has clearly been raised in the latest models).

However, I've noted that every on-line vendor has noted 10,000:1 contrast for the TH-65PX600 model. So I was wondering if it the increased CR for the 1080p model was a mistake being repeated by the vedors (like just taking the 10,000:1 number from the rest of the 6 series, to paste into the specs for the TH-65PX600).

I emailed Panasonic and they replied, confirming the 10,000:1 contrast for the TH-65PX600. That's nice! I do notice and appreciate the added contrast capabilities in the latest 6 series plasmas.

Uncle's Stereo

I bought some electronics from Uncle's Stereo a few years ago when they used to be located at West 72nd street / NYC. I lot of people had good experience with them. But they shouldn't be trusted. As APP pointed out, they do sell used stuff as new among other things.

Off I go to find an articulating mount that is low profile. 4-1/2" then a TV is pretty far (at least in my opinion). Anybody find one that moves but has low clearance? (BTW: the lowest fixed mount clearance that I found was 1.5".

Off I go to find an articulating mount that is low profile. 4-1/2" then a TV is pretty far (at least in my opinion). Anybody find one that moves but has low clearance? (BTW: the lowest fixed mount clearance that I found was 1.5".

You are talking about an articulating mount for a 65, no? This really is a lot of weight to hang on the wall; no less on something that is capable of extending out a couple of feet as well; which makes me (personally) more concerned with strength than how shallow the mounting depth is. I have 2" x 6" construction in my house and have thought about using some of the wall depth to inset whatever mount I choose, by creating a solid backing plate and a box frame mounted in notched out studs (appropriately reinforced). Might be an idea worth considering, if you want to minimize how far the display stick out from the wall.

Will this FP include ATSC tuners and a CableCARD slot?