HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns [Text View]

Bob Sorel

08-18-05, 08:59 AM

Ron...excellent!!

There is a huge shortage of HD patterns to use for calibration and your willingness to host and even create such patterns will be a very valuable addition to those of us who would like to calibrate our HD setups (me... :p ).

I appreciate any and all patterns that you will contribute, but here is my wish list. I originally posted this with the intentions of putting together a DIY DVD calibration disc, but the same patterns are equally valuable for HD, and they are much harder to get in either 601 or 709 color space, and nonexistent AFAIK in .ts format.

Here's what I figure:

DVE reverse ramps - to check for BTB and WTW and to get a general idea of the grayscale calibration - precalibration procedure
DVE color bars (horizontal on white background) - to check and adjust color decoding
AVIA PRO secondary color checkerboard - to check and adjust hue/tint
75% red window
75% green window
75% blue window
75% cyan window
75% magenta window
75% yellow window
full field black
10% white window
20% white window
30% white window
40% white window
50% whilte window
60% white window
70% white window
80% white window
90% white window
100% white window
75% white (for tristimulus chart)

and then I went on a rant as to how I would recommend setting up a calibration disc:

If I were to organize a disc, I would make it incredibly simple to navigate. and put all of the "fluff" elsewhere. Or, at least make it very simple to get to the "professional" patterns right from the main menu and then make it easy to navigate. Avia comes pretty close, but still has its problems - too many submenus. Put the "meat and potatoes" patterns in one section, and then put all of the extra and/or specialized patterns in another.

That is, there should be a "calibration" menu that is further subdivided by categories like:

1. Basic - including color bars and patterns for setting brightness and contrast, as well as check for the ability to pass BTB and WTW. Just include the BEST patterns to get the job done, not EVERY pattern you can imagine. Put the alternative patterns elsewhere.
2. Color - 75% windows in all 6 colors
3. Grayscale - 100% black, 100% white fields, and the 10% to 100% windows in 10% increments (all *labeled* on screen to avoid mistakes, and all verified to be color correct)
4. Crosshatch - for CRT convergence and geometry

You get the idea. Within each subcategory, all patterns should be chaptered and set to infinitely loop to avoid timing out if the calibrator is delayed. By using chapters, the calibrator can just hit the "previous" or "next" button on the remote to switch from one to another - a lot faster than going back to ANY menu. And since the patterns are *labeled* on screen, there is no chance of putting up the wrong pattern. Then put all of the specialized and/or alternative patterns in another area and organize those similarly for equal ease of use. There is no reason, for example, to have 20 different sets of color bars in a section when you only need one or two to get the job done. That just forces needless navigation.

The amount of patterns necessary to do even a full professional level calibration is not all that many, especially if the patterns are selected judiciously. Putting together a disc using .ts format will be incredibly simple.

Ron, I'm not suggesting that you do all of this work. This is just a list of *ideal* patterns that are normally needed for professional level calibration. But you asked, so I didn't feel shy about responding...:D

Thanks again! This is a wonderful effort on behalf of the forum!

Ursa

08-18-05, 10:10 AM

Bob - I have created full-field patterns for gamma calculations (16 - 236, using 236 for reference white for convenience to eliminate rounding issues - the 10% steps are then 22 code values apart). I also have 100% full-field color patterns as well, but 75% would be pretty easy as well (given my white value at 236). I used 100% to reduce by one the number of measurements to take.

Personally, I am curious about folks that are super anal on accuracy to the thousandth of a decimal in other areas, but then introduce way more error by using inherently analog test patterns on digital displays while still treating them as whole-value integers.

Ron - Did you author the patterns via a converted bitmap or directly in an MPEG container? If you used a bitmap, or other static graphic format, how did you author differently between Rec601 and 709? The code value ranges are the same (16 - 235), and the resolution is the same in your patterns, so I'm guessing you authored directly in YUV2/YV12? BTW, Thank You! You and 3no are really helping out your fellow hobbyists! :)

Later,
Bill

Bob Sorel

08-18-05, 10:45 AM

Bob - I have created full-field patterns for gamma calculations (16 - 236, using 236 for reference white for convenience to eliminate rounding issues - the 10% steps are then 22 code values apart). I also have 100% full-field color patterns as well, but 75% would be pretty easy as well (given my white value at 236). I used 100% to reduce by one the number of measurements to take.

Bill, full field patterns and 100% colors work fine for me...:) Jeff (UMR) recommended changing the list to windowed patterns and 75% colors basically due to the difficulty in plasmas to display these images, thus making the reduced patterns more universal in their usefulness. DLP owners won't have any problems, though...:D

To anyone creating these patterns: I highly recommend labeling the pattern on the pattern itself to avoid any possibily of mistake on the part of the user. Especially with the grayscale windows or full field patterns, it would be very easy to grab the wrong unlabeled pattern and throw off your gamma curve measurement, for example. Hopefully most people would know the difference between cyan and magenta, but you never know...hehe.

dr1394

08-18-05, 08:18 PM

Ron - Did you author the patterns via a converted bitmap or directly in an MPEG container? If you used a bitmap, or other static graphic format, how did you author differently between Rec601 and 709? The code value ranges are the same (16 - 235), and the resolution is the same in your patterns, so I'm guessing you authored directly in YUV2/YV12? BTW, Thank You! You and 3no are really helping out your fellow hobbyists! :)

Later,
Bill
All the current patterns have been "authored" in 4:2:2 YCbCr. To feed my hardware encoder, I load the YCbCr file onto a DVS HD-SDI server. However, I do have a program to convert from 4:4:4 RBG to 4:2:2 YCbCr (with either 601 or 709 matrix), so I can do bitmaps (or any format that Photoshop can handle). In fact, I have an overscan pattern that I made from a GIF found on this site:

http://www.tigerdave.com/images/testpatterns/1920x1080_grid.gif

I haven't put it on the website because it looks wacky in 1080i since he used alternating lines to create the color shading. Also, I was going to get his permission.

Ron

Li On

08-18-05, 09:01 PM

Hmm... that "overscan" pattern is a bit.. plain! :D I'd like some maker around the edge to indicate overscan range.

regards,

Li On

Ursa

08-18-05, 10:31 PM

All the current patterns have been "authored" in 4:2:2 YCbCr. To feed my hardware encoder, I load the YCbCr file onto a DVS HD-SDI server. However, I do have a program to convert from 4:4:4 RBG to 4:2:2 YCbCr (with either 601 or 709 matrix), so I can do bitmaps (or any format that Photoshop can handle). In fact, I have an overscan pattern that I made from a GIF found on this site:

http://www.tigerdave.com/images/testpatterns/1920x1080_grid.gif

I haven't put it on the website because it looks wacky in 1080i since he used alternating lines to create the color shading. Also, I was going to get his permission.

Ron
Ron - Definitely some cool toys! Thanks!

jflatt

08-22-05, 05:25 PM

I just put together a DirectShow source filter that will create the 1x1 black/white checkerboard pattern. It can provide a very clean image to the attached Overlay, VMR7, VMR9, whatever. I think it would be nice to get a bunch of various patterns in it and roll it up into a useful application. Attached is the source and a VS.NET 2003 project.

dr1394

08-22-05, 09:51 PM

The 0 thru 100 IRE window patterns are now available on www.w6rz.net, along with IRE bars and split bars (10 IRE steps). Sorry Bob, no labels (for now).

Luma values used for IRE patterns are:

0 IRE = 16
10 IRE = 38
20 IRE = 60
30 IRE = 82
40 IRE = 104
50 IRE = 126
60 IRE = 147
70 IRE = 169
80 IRE = 191
90 IRE = 213
100 IRE = 235

You may need to hit reload to see the new links.

Ron

dr1394

08-23-05, 02:09 AM

Added ramp (luma levels 1 - 254) with -5 to 105 IRE bars pattern.

Ron

kschmit2

08-23-05, 07:29 AM

These are all excellent so far.
Thank you very much for that effort.

Mac The Knife

08-23-05, 03:25 PM

Diode1

08-23-05, 03:45 PM

Sorry to complain about a freebee, but could someone with a lot of bandwidth volunteer to rehost these patterns?

DR1394's web site has such a low bandwidth limit that I gave up and canceled my first two attempts to download.
I am on comcast cable and the bandwidth via 2x d-loads @ a time via http://www.w6rz.net/ has been really good.

RichB

08-23-05, 04:23 PM

This is a great.

I think it might help downloaders if there was a single zip or at least 1 zip per section.

-- Rich

jmeer

08-23-05, 06:08 PM

It looks like they zip from about 70mb to about 2mb :eek:

dr1394

08-23-05, 07:30 PM

This is a great.

I think it might help downloaders if there was a single zip or at least 1 zip per section.

-- Rich
Doh! Thanks for jogging my feeble brain cell(s). As jmeer notes, the files are very compressable. This is because the IRE window patterns are almost all stuffing bits. It's 1 Mbps video and 384 kbps (silent) audio in a 19.39 Mbps TS. I'm going to change everything over to zip files later today.

As for bandwidth of the website, I just did a test download here, and it sustained 280 kbytes/sec, or about 2.3 Mbps.

Ron

dr1394

08-23-05, 09:02 PM

Okay, all changed over to zip files along with a zip file containing all the patterns.

Ron

Bob Sorel

08-23-05, 11:05 PM

Great work, Ron!

And the zipped files are much easier to download. It was taking me about 4 to 6 minutes to dl the separate .ts files, but I was able to download allpatterns.zip in about 9 minutes.

I'm anxious to check out the new grayscale patterns...:)

kny3twalker

08-24-05, 01:18 AM

just wanted to say thanks

Kroot

08-24-05, 06:00 AM

Thank you Ron for test patterns!

benpatient

08-24-05, 11:48 AM

wonderful. thanks!

Mac The Knife

08-24-05, 02:47 PM

...
As for bandwidth of the website, I just did a test download here, and it sustained 280 kbytes/sec, or about 2.3 Mbps.

Ron

Well, that's strange, because I was only getting about 20KB/s from your site whereas I usually get between 150 and 200KB/s from other sites. :confused:

I guess I'll try again after you zip everything up.

RichB

08-24-05, 03:21 PM

I was playing with the color pattern bars and there appear to be two black bars.

I assumed the brighter one was above video black ( greater than 16) and the other was below black ( less than 16). So I set black so that the darker one just disappeared.

Is that correct?

-- Rich

Bob Sorel

08-24-05, 06:04 PM

If my readings are correct, then the black background is at video level black (16), while the below black bar is 7 and the above black bar is 25. I mean, you could use that pattern, but a much better option would be to use the pattern labeled "ramp.ts", as you can use the same pattern for several purposes:

1. To evaluate the overall "grayness" of the grayscale.
2. To get an overall feel for the gamma curve.
3. To see if you are passing BTB/WTW information.
4. To adjust BOTH contrast and brightness. By using this pattern, you will see how the 2 controls interact, and cab quickly go back and forth to make adjustments until your ramps look as good as possible. The bars aligned with the dots represent video black (0% - 16) and video white (100% - 235).

I love this particular pattern! :D

dr1394

08-25-05, 09:34 PM

Added crosshatch with circles pattern.

Ron

Li On

08-26-05, 05:08 AM

dr1394

08-26-05, 05:36 AM

Thanks!

For the crosshatch w/circles pattern, is there a edge outline at 4 sides? Using VLC player I only get the top edge line. That's why I want a good pattern to check edge pixel crop or overscan effect.

Are the patterns in 1080 or 1088 lines?

regards,

Li On
There is an edge outline (actually 2 lines) on the top and left hand side of the crosshatch pattern. I thought about adding outlines on the bottom and right side, but a real overscan/pixel crop pattern is in the works.

All patterns are 1080 lines, since the DVS HD-SDI file server I'm using only supports 1920x1080 uncompressed images. Also, the video bitstream sequence header is set to 1920x1080. However, the HD MPEG-2 encoder that I'm using pads lines 1081 thru 1088 with black instead of the usual grey.

Tomorrow's pattern, Y/C delay.

Ron

dr1394

08-26-05, 08:10 PM

Added Y/C delay pattern. Here's the 0 delay red bar in MPEG-2 encoded/decoded 4:2:0 on top and the original 4:2:2 bitmap on the bottom.

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9228/yc6fv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ron

dr1394

08-26-05, 08:34 PM

I've also created a 4:2:2 bitstream for this pattern. If your decoder can handle 4:2:2, you should use the 4:2:2 pattern. Believe it or not, but MyHD cards will decode 4:2:2. EDIT: Well, maybe MyHD can decode 4:2:2. My MDP-120 displays an almost correct image for a few seconds and then locks up the machine.

Here's the 0 delay red bar in MPEG-2 encoded/decoded 4:2:2 on top and the original 4:2:2 bitmap on the bottom.

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/111/yc4221ql.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ron

dr1394

11-08-05, 03:09 AM

Added a bunch of new (but simple) patterns.

1) Full field grey scale 10 through 100 IRE in 10 IRE steps.
2) 75% color windows Rec. 601
3) 75% color windows Rec. 709
4) 75% color fields Rec. 601
5) 75% color fields Rec. 709

Ron

kschmit2

11-12-05, 06:37 AM

thanks.
Your testpatterns are great.

jimwhite

11-12-05, 08:39 AM

yes, a belated but earnest THANK YOU !!!!

:D

dr1394

11-28-05, 03:46 AM

Added vertical resolution patterns for 1080i and 720p.

Ron

dr1394

12-02-05, 01:03 AM

Added vertical resolution pattern with motion (for 1080i->1080p deinterlacing testing).

Ron

RichB

12-02-05, 07:34 AM

Added vertical resolution pattern with motion (for 1080i->1080p deinterlacing testing).

Ron

Awesome. I will try this on my 7800 card later today.

-- Rich

noizemaker

12-02-05, 11:35 AM

hey guys. this may sound like a really stupid question but i downloaded all the patterns. what do i have to do to view them, can they be burned to DVD for use with my tv?

thanks so much.
Carmine

mdtiberi

12-02-05, 01:54 PM

hey guys. this may sound like a really stupid question but i downloaded all the patterns. what do i have to do to view them, can they be burned to DVD for use with my tv?

thanks so much.
Carmine

Have the same question. Found this link on the Forum that may be of help
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=395744. Never done this before so it's a first for me. Good luck!

dr1394

12-02-05, 09:25 PM

hey guys. this may sound like a really stupid question but i downloaded all the patterns. what do i have to do to view them, can they be burned to DVD for use with my tv?

thanks so much.
Carmine
Most folks that are using the patterns for calibration are using either a video card or ATSC/QAM receiver card (like the MyHD MDP-130) that has a DVI or component output set to some HD resolution.

If you just want to see the patterns, use can use either the VLC http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ or elecard http://www.elecard.com/download/ decoders. Both players can handle the Transport Stream format.

Converting to DVD is not recommended since you lose the HD resolution in the process. You would be better served by SD patterns. See the calibration disc thread, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586139

Ron

mdtiberi

12-02-05, 09:57 PM

Ron:

Is is possible to us the DVI port on my Apple to HDMI on my set and still maintain the resolution of your original file?

Thanks.

RichB

12-06-05, 08:05 AM

These pattern have been great.

I am having trouble adjusting for overscan on 720P and 1080i stations. The stations are very inconsistent. Sometime the image fits perfectly other not. It would be nice to set the overscan for sum amount like 2% and forget it.

It would be great to have 1080i and 720P overscan test patterns :D

Thanks,

Rich

videobruce

12-06-05, 10:21 AM

Any way to put these on a removable HDD with a 1394 interface to stream into a set without a HTPC connected?

susanstone

12-06-05, 10:11 PM

nice work.
has anybody tried deinterlacing test pattern? can nvidia or ati handle it?

thanks.

dr1394

12-07-05, 02:02 AM

dr1394

12-07-05, 02:09 AM

nice work.
has anybody tried deinterlacing test pattern? can nvidia or ati handle it?

thanks.
See the "Tested and Failed: throwing away half the Resolution by Gary Merson" threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=608670

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=608998

Here's some patterns with 3/2 pulldown that aren't hyperlinked on the main page.

1) 1080i@29.97 bitstream of rotating "helicopter" bar. The source is 72 frames of a solid (progressive) bar in both fields that advances 360/72 or 5 degrees per frame. However, 3/2 pulldown has been turned on at the source. If you examine each frame, you'll see the bar as solid in 3 frames and then interlaced in 2 frames (in a repeating sequence).

http://www.w6rz.net/vertrezivtc.zip

2) 1080i@29.97 bitstream with inverse telecine flags of the same source. Unfortunately, the encoder I used is not able to stay is film mode when the bar goes horizontal. This is due to the encoder being a 3 chip hardware encoder where each chip does a strip of the image (top, middle and bottom). When the bar goes horizontal, it's only in the portion of the image that's being processed by the middle chip. The top and bottom chips don't see the repeated field, and the encoder drops to video for a few frames.

http://www.w6rz.net/vertrezivtcflags.zip

3) 1080p@23.976 bitstream. A progressive encode of the 72 frames without 3/2 pulldown. I tossed this one in for folks to see if their decoder can properly decode 24p bitstreams. On a good decoder, all three bitstreams should act the same.

http://www.w6rz.net/vertrez24p.zip

Ron

dr1394

12-16-05, 02:39 AM

Overscan and pixel cropping pattern added. Only 1080i for now.

Overscan lines at 0, 2.5 and 5.0 percent. Pixel cropping bars from 0 to 16 pixels. Wacky REC. 709 YCbCr gamut just to fill the middle of the pattern with something.

http://www.w6rz.net/overscancrop.zip

Ron

RichB

12-16-05, 09:18 AM

dr1394,

Great Pattern. This was very interesting. With TheatTek 2.1.1/NVidia 7800 I can see on pixel border. I am assuming that is zero overscan.

With MyHD 1080i, I did some adjusting. I can get to zero overscan horizontally, but the vertical never delivers the border, but it is close. Watching PBS-HD and some 4x3 content you can really see that some stations have not figured how to crop the broadcasts.

Thanks again,

Rich

plughplover

02-17-06, 08:25 AM

Just tried out the vertical resolution / deinterlacing patterns, and I have some questions.

The single pixel strip I understand -
all pixels of one field are on, all pixels in the other field are off.
It is the 2, 3, and 4 strips cases I'm not sure about.

For the two strip case, does each field have alternating on/off lines
Fld1 1111111111111
Fld1 0000000000000
...
Fld2 1111111111111
Fld2 0000000000000

yeilding

Fld1 1111111111111
Fld2 1111111111111
Fld1 0000000000000
Fld2 0000000000000

after they are deinterlaced?
And for the three strip case,

Fld1 1111111111111
Fld2 1111111111111
Fld1 1111111111111
Fld2 0000000000000
Fld1 0000000000000
Fld2 0000000000000

assuming bob deint, one out of three lines 'flash'?

And the four strip case is a doubled up version of the two strip case?

Many thanks for making these tests available!

dr1394

02-18-06, 08:59 PM

Yes, you have it correct. On an interlaced (CRT) monitor, the 1 and 3 pixel strips will flicker at a 30 Hz rate, while the 2 and 4 pixel strips will be stable.

Ron

plughplover

02-21-06, 11:29 PM

Thanks for the details.

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I have two observations regarding the vertrez tests on my crt I am trying to understand.

1) I would assume that a crt would draw 1080i as just that - two passes, scan each field, with interleaved scan lines. For the 1 and 3 pixel strips, why do I see any flicker at all? Is it due to short phosphor duration ('on' pixels not glowing long enough?)

2) I am seeing a perplexing effect with the 2 pixel test - somewhat visible with vertrez1080, quite apparent with vertpix2 (full screen). Rather than a uniform display, I am seeing 8 cycles of a varying brightness band across the screen.
To draw an analogy,
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
/////////////////
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
/////////////////
The above shows two of the bands, with the '<' part being darker and the '>' part brighter. My gut reaction is I am seeing a scaling effect - which doesn't make sense, as 1080i is supposed to be one of the set's native resolutions (480p is the other). Or is this due to the crt shadow mask (how many lines of holes)?

CRT_Nooob

04-29-06, 02:08 AM

I downloaded the 1080p resolution pattern (thank you host) and noticed a weird problem on my 6600GT.
I managed to get perfect pixel mapping using Overlay and VMR7 using NVideo Decoder on my 1080p display. Yet when I switch to VMR9, I loose vertical resolution and the decoder seems to perform some filtering. Anybody faced such issue and can help because I need to run video in VMR9 for my dual display setup.

Tkx.

dr1394

05-09-06, 03:16 AM

Site has been updated with links to video quality clips. These are a set of clips encoded at 12, 18, and 23 Mbps at 1280x1080, 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 resolutions. Also linked vertical resolution patterns with 3:2 pulldown.

Ron

RichB

05-09-06, 06:47 AM

Ron,

I be giving these a spin later tonight.

I can't wait for the HD DVD versions ;)

Maybe you should do a shareware version?

Thanks,

-- Rich

WiFi-Spy

05-15-06, 12:25 AM

Ron,

I be giving these a spin later tonight.

I can't wait for the HD DVD versions ;)

Maybe you should do a shareware version?

Thanks,

-- Rich

you can make your own with Ulead's MF5

fred33

05-21-06, 09:03 PM

I've hosted some HD MPEG-2 test patterns on my website.

http://www.w6rz.net

They are HD MPEG-2 Transport Streams at the standard 19.39 Mbps ATSC bitrate. The first patterns are 601 and 709 color bars, and some resolution frequency bursts.

I've already had a request for IRE window patterns, so they'll be available soon. Any requests or suggestions are welcome.

Ron
Dang......what is a .ts file???

ChrisWiggles

05-22-06, 01:59 AM

it's a Transport Stream file, as described in what you quoted.

fred33

05-28-06, 06:19 AM

Transport stream files are unknown to me.
Can you direct me to a site that will tell me all about them?

WiFi-Spy

05-28-06, 05:01 PM

Transport stream files are unknown to me.
Can you direct me to a site that will tell me all about them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_stream

fred33

05-28-06, 06:05 PM

Ok.....got it now....I think :D

Li On

07-07-06, 05:49 AM

dr1394

07-09-06, 05:18 AM

I have a "weird" feature request! :p

All these great patterns are in 1080i format. I'd want some patterns in 1088i format, especially a 1088i overscan pattern. As we know there are lots of 1080i MPEG2 programmings are actually in 1088i native format due to the limitation of some MPEG2 encoders with the 16x16 pixels block size of the MPEG2 format.

I'd like to know the behavior of a display, video processor, MPEG2 decoder how to handle these common 1088i source. A ideal MPEG2 decoder (like the DScaler5 MPEG2 decoder!) should simply drop the buttom 8 lines of pixel and output in 1080i. A worksaround solution should be output the full 1088i image and let a downstream video processor to crop the buttom 8 waste lines. The worse processing is to decode the full 1088i, then rescale to 1080i output which the native 1080i image will be destroyed forever.

regards,

Li On
All 1080i bitstreams are actually 1088 lines. It's not an encoder limitation, it's how how the MPEG-2 specification works. For interlaced resolutions, the actual vertical pixel height must be divisible by 32 (1088/32 = 34).

All the test patterns on my website are 1088 pixels high. However, the sequence header vertical_size parameter for all the patterns is set to 1080. The last 8 lines on all the patterns are padded to black (Y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128) as opposed to many encoders that pad to grey (Y = 128, Cb = 128, Cr = 128).

However, as a decoder test, I'll create some patterns with the last 8 lines padded to something besides black, and I'll also create some patterns with the sequence header vertical_size set to 1088.

I'll post them sometime this week.

Ron

RichB

07-09-06, 06:29 AM

Li On

07-09-06, 09:54 PM

Wow! Thanks Ron! :)

Now I understand! I know there is that MPEG2 header 1080/1088 indicator. And there is a small software that change a stream header from 1088 to 1080. But the header change tool never work for me on a HTPC. WinDVD/Nvidia MPEG2 decoder always show the bottom 8 gray lines while DScaler5 MPEG2 decoder never show the waste pixel.

So ALL MPEG2 1080i content are in fact in 1088i native format. Some with 1080i header and some with 1088i header. Some with the bottom 8 lines in black and some in gray/white/whatever.

I'd like to see these test "overscan" patterns:
- 1080i header, bottom 8 lines in black (already in the current test patterns)
- 1080i header, bottom 8 lines in gray
- 1088i header, bottom 8 lines in gray
- 1088i header, bottom 8 lines in black

Btw, is it possible to actual encode normal image in that 8 bottom lines? If possible, I'd like to see a "overscan" pattern which include the bottom 8 lines as part of the actually image, such as label the bottom 8 lines as 0 to -8 pixels!

Thanks in advance! :)

regards,

Li On

Li On

07-11-06, 03:21 AM

I changed your fix1088 tool to convert 1080 to 1088! (sorry for messing with your program! :) Now I can test your patterns in 1088 mode.

regards,

Li On

dr1394

07-12-06, 01:15 AM

I changed your fix1088 tool to convert 1080 to 1088! (sorry for messing with your program! :) Now I can test your patterns in 1088 mode.

regards,

Li On
fix1088 is Jacob Balazer's tool, not mine. I've added a couple of bitstreams for your testing. They are:

http://www.w6rz.net/crop1080red.zip

http://www.w6rz.net/crop1088red.zip

They are encodings of the overscan pattern with the last 8 lines (1080 - 1088) padded to red (so that it's very obvious). For my hardware encoder, it's quite difficult to put anything complex into the last 8 lines due to the memory format (it's not in raster format, but in a special "tile" format). Also, it's impossible to set the last 8 lines with my DVS HD-SDI server (it only takes 1920x1080 YCbCr files).

Ron

dr1394

07-12-06, 01:25 AM

These patterns are great.

Have you considered a 720P overscan pattern?

I have not tried this, but I suppose we can burn these to DVD-R for playback on a Toshiba HD-A1. That would be interesting.

- Rich
720p overscan pattern is doable. Give me a few days. As for a DVD-R for the Toshiba, see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=693441

I think the guy is using my patterns, but for some strange reason, he doesn't know. I'd check it myself, but I can't ********** from work and my home internet connection is too slow.

Ron

RichB

07-12-06, 07:15 AM

720p overscan pattern is doable. Give me a few days. As for a DVD-R for the Toshiba, see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=693441

I think the guy is using my patterns, but for some strange reason, he doesn't know. I'd check it myself, but I can't ********** from work and my home internet connection is too slow.

Ron

Thanks. I will give that a shot.

- Rich

Li On

07-13-06, 08:58 PM

Thanks for the new patterns. And there are a few new requests too! :D

I'm trying to find out if a MPEG2 decoder outputs different HDTV MPEG2 formats in native resolution. The most common 1920x1080i is well covered with the "horzpix1.ts" and "vertpix1.ts" single pixel on/off patterns.

I'd like to see a pair of these patterns for 1440x1080i and 1280x1080i too. Or a single pixel on/off "checkerboard" pattern (like this WMV patterns in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7079209&post7079209)) to check both horizontal and vertical resolution.

I know there are the "burst1280.ts", "burst1440.ts" but I don't really know which part to look for for single pixel resolution output checking.

Thanks in advance.

regards,

Li On

John Mason

07-15-06, 12:38 PM

dr1394

07-18-06, 12:24 AM

Might already be in the 'package' online, but if not perhaps a judder test pattern might be useful. Noticed this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=318096&highlight=JudderTest) within another forum. Haven't linked my computer to my HD RPTV yet, but if all these goodies keep developing I'll have to try them. -- John
Actually, I do have some "judder" test patterns that I developed for my co-workers in the MPEG-2 decoder group.

The zip file:

http://www.w6rz.net/judder.zip

contains four test streams.

1) interlacejudder.ts - the moving bar advances 16 pixels horizontally each frame. However, since it's interlaced each field of the bar moves 8 pixels per field.

2) pulldownjudder.ts - the moving bar advances 16 pixels horizontally each frame. However, 3:2 pulldown has been applied.

3) progessivejudder.ts - the moving bar advances 16 pixels horizontally each frame. This is a 1080p@29.97 video bitstream.

4) filmjudder.ts - the moving bar advances 16 pixels horizontally each frame. This is a 1080p@23.976 video bitstream.

Ron

dr1394

07-18-06, 10:01 PM

Have you considered a 720P overscan pattern?

- Rich
The 720p overscan pattern is ready.

http://www.w6rz.net/overscancrop720.zip

Ron

RichB

07-18-06, 11:11 PM

The 720p overscan pattern is ready.

http://www.w6rz.net/overscancrop720.zip

Ron

Great! I will try it out tomottow.

Thanks,

Rich

dallas27

07-19-06, 12:59 PM

If I may ask, do any of these test patterns have the ability to test whether or not 1080i is being weaved and not bobbed?

Thank you either way.

dr1394

07-19-06, 04:45 PM

If I may ask, do any of these test patterns have the ability to test whether or not 1080i is being weaved and not bobbed?

Thank you either way.
Yes. The specific patterns are:

http://www.w6rz.net/vertrez1080.zip

http://www.w6rz.net/vertrez720.zip

http://www.w6rz.net/vertrezmotion.zip

http://www.w6rz.net/vertrezivtc.zip

See this thread for more information:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=608670

Ron

padrino121

11-21-06, 10:20 PM

lovingdvd

11-22-06, 11:24 PM

dr1394

11-23-06, 05:32 AM

dr1394,

Thanks for the patterns, they are great. I was wondering if you could add a 10/20 second countdown to your site? This will allow easy latency tests along with all of the others you currently offer.

Thanks,

- Brian
I'm not exactly sure what you are asking for. What latency are you trying to determine or measure? The judder test patterns have a frame number counting in the upper right hand corner.

http://www.w6rz.net/judder.zip

Something like that?

Ron

dr1394

11-23-06, 05:42 AM

Ron - I have a question about your hdtestpatterns.zip that has the .iso in it. The web site says its an HD DVD ISO. Can this be burned to a standard DVD-R or DVD+R or do you need a special burner and/or special DVD media? Assuming it can be burned to a standard DVD, when played back in a HD DVD drive, does it really output at 1080i or does it somehow get downrezed in the process (such as burning it to a DVD)? Will this be available for BluRay as well? Thanks!
It can be burned to a regular DVD-R or DVD+R with any burner and will play in HD on the Toshiba HD-DVD players. See this big thread on the topic of HD-DVD authoring on red-laser DVD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

The original thread for the .iso file is here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707769

I started hosting the file since it was deleted from the original freebie hosting site. I also verified that the patterns were not disturbed by the Ulead MF5 authoring program. The results are here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8169385&&#post8169385

Ron

lovingdvd

11-23-06, 07:25 PM

Thanks. So do I understand correctly than that there is no resolution loss in the images? In other words if there is a 1920x1080 cross hatch pattern that is just 1 pixel wide, when I play these back I should receive these as still just one pixel wide? Likewise am I correct to assume that the full fields and window patterns have been checked to make sure there is no contamination?

Lastly, would you please consider adding 5 IRE full fields and/or windows (5, 15, 25 etc)? These are very helpful for my calibrations. Particularly useful is a 5 IRE field/window as I am able to accurately read 5 IRE and like to calibrate it as close to D65 as possible. Thanks!

padrino121

11-25-06, 08:20 AM

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking for. What latency are you trying to determine or measure? The judder test patterns have a frame number counting in the upper right hand corner.

Something like that?

Ron

Something like that might work, I need to check it out. I have a need to measure end to end latency in a system that I can only feed from a source and observe the output of. I was thinking something that counted down from like 10 seconds to 0 would suffice, albeit a bit rough. I liked seconds because it's much easier to see it just from observation then watching something as fast as the frame count but the better solution would be to have both.

I'll take a look at judder, do you have any suggestions that might better solve my problem?

dr1394

11-25-06, 07:53 PM

Something like that might work, I need to check it out. I have a need to measure end to end latency in a system that I can only feed from a source and observe the output of. I was thinking something that counted down from like 10 seconds to 0 would suffice, albeit a bit rough. I liked seconds because it's much easier to see it just from observation then watching something as fast as the frame count but the better solution would be to have both.

I'll take a look at judder, do you have any suggestions that might better solve my problem?
Take a look at the A/V sync pattern (it's at the very end of the web page). When I was working on low-delay MPEG-2 encoders for two-way videoconferencing, that's what I used to use.

With a dual-trace oscilloscope, you can easily measure the delay with millisecond accuracy. Connect the source video or audio to one channel and the delayed output to the other channel. Set the scope for "chop" rather than "alternate", since the sweep time will be quite low (100 ms per division). Trigger the scope trace on the channel connected to the source on the rising edge of the audio tone or the rising edge of the video bars. If you use video, you'll have to set the trigger level above the sync pulse (that is, somewhere between 10 and 70 IRE), so that it actually triggers on the color bars pulse.

You should then be able to see the delay of the tone/bars on the second channel. At 100 ms per division, the tick marks will be 20 milliseconds. Typical delays are 100 to 500 ms, so you'll get a pretty good picture of the delay.

When I was doing the low-delay work, the holy grail was 100 ms one-way (200 ms round trip). That's about the most two people in a conversation can tolerate without inadvertently talking over each other.

The pattern on the website has 1 second tone/video pulses. Depending on how long your delay is and how accurate you need to measure it, you might want a shorter duration pulse. Let me know, I can generate that pattern very easily.

Ron

padrino121

11-26-06, 04:18 AM

Take a look at the A/V sync pattern (it's at the very end of the web page). When I was working on low-delay MPEG-2 encoders for two-way videoconferencing, that's what I used to use.

With a dual-trace oscilloscope, you can easily measure the delay with millisecond accuracy. Connect the source video or audio to one channel and the delayed output to the other channel. Set the scope for "chop" rather than "alternate", since the sweep time will be quite low (100 ms per division). Trigger the scope trace on the channel connected to the source on the rising edge of the audio tone or the rising edge of the video bars. If you use video, you'll have to set the trigger level above the sync pulse (that is, somewhere between 10 and 70 IRE), so that it actually triggers on the color bars pulse.

You should then be able to see the delay of the tone/bars on the second channel. At 100 ms per division, the tick marks will be 20 milliseconds. Typical delays are 100 to 500 ms, so you'll get a pretty good picture of the delay.

When I was doing the low-delay work, the holy grail was 100 ms one-way (200 ms round trip). That's about the most two people in a conversation can tolerate without inadvertently talking over each other.

The pattern on the website has 1 second tone/video pulses. Depending on how long your delay is and how accurate you need to measure it, you might want a shorter duration pulse. Let me know, I can generate that pattern very easily.

Thanks for the good information. When I used to do video work I would measure the latency at the application level using timing in the video stream, I never knew how to use an oscilloscope to measure the latency so this is very useful.

In this case I cannot attach anything to the output stream, just view it on the system that's built to play it so an instrument isn't really a possibility at the moment. The end to end latency may be a number of seconds however I want to be able to measure it to a resolution of less then a second so I was thinking a visual clue indicating seconds (countdown was my initial thought) and one indicating less then that (maybe something like 1/4 second, or ticking frame count per second) would handle it. I haven't looked at judder yet so I need to check it out and see if that will work.

Brian

HDholic

12-01-06, 01:31 AM

Could anyone point me in the right direction? I've searched thread after thread and I've come up short.

I want to create basic grayscale and color patterns playable on my DVD player to calibrate my TV. I have Photoshop, but don't know how to start. I hope someone can help me out.

dr1394

12-19-06, 03:20 AM

I've added a new pattern. It's a combined luma and chroma frequency sweep.

http://www.w6rz.net/sweeps.zip

Ron

memphistrumpet

12-29-06, 02:08 PM

Thanks for this great resource. I had no problems burning the test DVD, but I have no idea how to use it. I have done a few basic calibrations using AVIA, but these patterns are a little different. So could someone please explain how you use these patterns for a plasma screen, or at least point me in the right direction to look?
Thanks

HDholic

01-02-07, 10:53 PM

Yes, it would be nice it the "special patterns" had a brief explanation on how they work or what to look for.

In my case, what do I look for in the judder and Y/C delay patterns?

ChrisWiggles

01-03-07, 12:13 AM

In my case, what do I look for in the judder and Y/C delay patterns?

Judder... and Y/C delay... ;)

dr1394

01-03-07, 12:33 AM

Yes, it would be nice it the "special patterns" had a brief explanation on how they work or what to look for.

In my case, what do I look for in the judder and Y/C delay patterns?
The judder patterns serve two purposes:

1) Shows how smoothly a software decoder can render frames. Any hiccup, pause, stutter or jump is easily detected by watching the horizontal movement of the bar. It should be smooth as silk, since the movement is exactly the same number of pixels in each frame.

2) Deinterlacing functionality. The interlacejudder.ts and pulldownjudder.ts clips have field based motion, which should be eliminated by a deinterlacer. That is, the left and right hand edges of the bar should not be fuzzy.

The Y/C delay pattern is used to estimate (by eye) how much Y/C delay your decoder/display chain may be suffering. The middle row of bars have perfect Y/C alignment, while other rows are offset 1, 2 or 3 pixels in each direction. If the middle row looks to be aligned properly, you're in good shape. If one of the other rows seems better aligned, you're off by 1, 2 or 3 pixels.

Ron

HDholic

01-03-07, 12:47 AM

Thanks dr1394. Using VLC media player to test on my PC LCD (1440x900 native res.) the white box edges where blurry on the judder test. Blue and green Y/C delay seemed to be about 1 pixel off.

Do you have or could a pattern to test motion blur on LCD HDTVs be made for that purpose? Also, is it possible to test how many lines of res. a display is processing at any input resolution?

GlennRW

01-04-07, 03:42 PM

Can anyone tell me wich files would be usefull to me and how to use them on my Panny ae900?

I am no callibration wizard infact this is the first time i have ever entered this forum.

lovingdvd

01-09-07, 11:42 PM

I've added a new pattern. It's a combined luma and chroma frequency sweep.

http://www.w6rz.net/sweeps.zip

Ron

Excellent disc! If I could, I would like to request some additional patterns for consideration please:

a) please add a 75% white to the Color Patterns for both Rec 709 and 601 (so we have r,g,b,y,c,m and now White too). My software package prompts me to measure white in addition to the primaries and secondaries, and without this I do not have a 75% white anywhere else on the disc to use (and it needs to match the 75% of the other colors).

b) please consider making the color patterns also available at 100%

c) please add a set of IRE windows that go by 5 IREs (5, 10, 15 etc). Or if not then please add a single 5 IRE window. I can measure accurately at 5 IRE and like to dial that in.

d) please consider adding a pattern that consists of 6 horizontal bars from 0 to 10 IRE (0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10) as this helps give a good idea of how things hold up in the low end.

Thank you!

dr1394

01-10-07, 07:39 PM

Excellent disc! If I could, I would like to request some additional patterns for consideration please:

a) please add a 75% white to the Color Patterns for both Rec 709 and 601 (so we have r,g,b,y,c,m and now White too). My software package prompts me to measure white in addition to the primaries and secondaries, and without this I do not have a 75% white anywhere else on the disc to use (and it needs to match the 75% of the other colors).

b) please consider making the color patterns also available at 100%

c) please add a set of IRE windows that go by 5 IREs (5, 10, 15 etc). Or if not then please add a single 5 IRE window. I can measure accurately at 5 IRE and like to dial that in.

d) please consider adding a pattern that consists of 6 horizontal bars from 0 to 10 IRE (0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10) as this helps give a good idea of how things hold up in the low end.

Thank you!
Sure, those are all very easy. On the 6 bar low IRE pattern, "horizontal" is a little ambiguous. Do you want this:
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1364/irelowhxa5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
or this:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6691/irelowvmz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ron

lovingdvd

01-10-07, 10:10 PM

Hi Ron - regarding the 6 step 0-10 IRE pattern - originally I was thinking the 2nd one. However after seeing this it is obviously that going with the first one (top image) would be much better because the bars are "thicker" and will be easier to judge color shifts/differences as a result. This is also more consistent with the orientation of most IRE bar patterns. So in summary, please use the style as shown in your top (first) image. Thanks!

STL_HD_Guy

01-17-07, 07:57 PM

Ron great work!! I would love to see some AVIA style color bars with the flashing boxes. The flashing boxes make it a ton easier to get your adjusts just right. Is this doable?

ChrisWiggles

01-18-07, 12:33 AM

Sure, those are all very easy. On the 6 bar low IRE pattern, "horizontal" is a little ambiguous. Do you want this:
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1364/irelowhxa5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
or this:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6691/irelowvmz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ron

I see banding!!! :eek:

;)

dr1394

01-18-07, 01:47 AM

I see banding!!! :eek:

;)
Actually, I brightened those images a little so that all the bars could be easily seen. Here's the pattern at the proper levels.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1843/irelowna7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm wondering if a 0 to 20 IRE pattern (also at proper levels) would be better?

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8568/irelow2ve3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ron

dr1394

01-18-07, 01:48 AM

Ron great work!! I would love to see some AVIA style color bars with the flashing boxes. The flashing boxes make it a ton easier to get your adjusts just right. Is this doable?
Flashing is easy. I'll have to find my Avia disc to remember what the patterns look like.

Ron

trbarry

01-18-07, 06:25 AM

Hi Ron -

I haven't checked them all but, is one of these a 24p moving vertical chroma (only) resolution test pattern? It would be interesting to see if the different blue laser DVD players have more or less vertical chroma rez due to a pass through 1080i processing.

- Tom

ChrisWiggles

01-18-07, 01:35 PM

Flashing is easy. I'll have to find my Avia disc to remember what the patterns look like.

Ron

That is a good idea, I find that the flashing colorbar boxes aid with precision.

STL_HD_Guy

01-18-07, 02:24 PM

That's great! I find the AVIA patterns are easier to use than DVE. You can find a nice screen shot of the color bars with flashing squares here: zapped by jr poster policy

More specifically this is the image: zapped by jr poster policy

Eric

See PM for URL's Thanks!

LoveHarmony

01-18-07, 11:42 PM

Cool

Morganza_BPS

01-20-07, 01:28 PM

I burned the HD test patterns iso on dvd, it does not play on my xbox 360, what am I doing wrong?

jvincent

01-20-07, 01:32 PM

The 360 needs a different chapter marking setup.

There is a different thread with instructions and a download for a 360 friendly disc.

Morganza_BPS

01-20-07, 01:43 PM

The 360 needs a different chapter marking setup.

There is a different thread with instructions and a download for a 360 friendly disc.

Could you link me to it my friend?

Jeff_DML

01-20-07, 01:44 PM

sorry, calibration newby.

is there a thread that explains what they do/how to use all these test streams?

I have the hd-dvd up and running and also all the files on my PS3. I own Avia and have used it serveral times

thanks
Jeff

jvincent

01-20-07, 01:55 PM

Could you link me to it my friend?

Here you go.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9004903&&#post9004903

Morganza_BPS

01-20-07, 06:28 PM

Here you go.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9004903&&#post9004903

Thank You.

jvincent

01-20-07, 07:44 PM

Also check the following. There may be an update tonight.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9530387&&#post9530387

Mr_Bester

01-26-07, 01:10 PM

GetGray

01-26-07, 03:13 PM

How can you get a .ts file into a S3? That would be very nice to get these loaded there.

Mr_Bester

01-26-07, 03:32 PM

How can you get a .ts file into a S3? That would be very nice to get these loaded there.
I don't know, I thought they were as open as the series 2's. I have the D* version. I was just specifying an HD tivo not SD. Sorry about the confusion...

edit, nevermind, I'd have to convert it to a .ty file....

GetGray

01-26-07, 03:57 PM

Nope. They are closed tight as a.... Well, they have them locked down tight. You can't even use the SATA port that's built in, or any of the Tivo sharing between boxes stuff. Just hoped you had heard some hack to do it. I haven't had time to watch for one.

That does bring up an interesting idea though. Not to get OT but if one had a Sencore ATSc generator for a couple hours you could record the patterns via the Antenna port. That woudl be cool. Anyone have a Sencore HD I can borrow :D

jstoddard

01-30-07, 11:53 AM

Has anyone tried transferring the .ts files to their Tivo(HR10-250 or Series 3)? I would think a .ts file is a .ts file, but wanted to make sure before going through the hassle of getting into my tivo. I'd like to have these come from the "source" to adjust for any discrepencies.
thanks
dug

I've recently loaded some of these .ts files onto my HR10-250.

Basic process is convert .ts to .mpg via HDTVtoMPEG2 and then to .ty via FFMPEG. Resulting .ty file is then put onto HR10-250 via MFS_FTP. Of couse, all this assumes you have a hacked tivo with network access.

Files play fine, and although I've not yet done any calibration with these files, they seem to be intact.

Jeff

Mr_Bester

01-30-07, 12:01 PM

Thanks,
I've converted the .ts to .ty using tyffmpeg, but I need to work out the insertion using MFS_FTP. I'm new to all of this stuff.

edit, After converting, did your files shrink? I asked on elsewhere, but I used the -acodec copy and -vcodec copy flags in ffmpeg and the irewindows went from 70Mb to 7Mb...

* disclaimer, I am not trying to take anything off the tivo....

jstoddard

01-30-07, 01:17 PM

edit, After converting, did your files shrink? I asked on elsewhere, but I used the -acodec copy and -vcodec copy flags in ffmpeg and the irewindows went from 70Mb to 7Mb...

Yes they did shrink. Converting to MPG in HDTVtoMPEG2 reduced the file sizes. Not sure why. For example Bars709 went from 70,102KB down to 7,085KB. It was further reduced to 6,402KB after running through FFMPEG. I know that these files zip well as they are very redundant, maybe that has something to do with the decrease in file size. Don't know if their quality was reduced.

Jeff

GetGray

01-30-07, 01:20 PM

The true test is to convert back the other way (when possible) and see if there were losses on the resulting images.

Jeff_DML

01-30-07, 01:28 PM

I am pretty sure the TS are packed with NULL packets to fill them out to 19.2Mbps. HDTVtoMPEG2 removes them thus the file size shrinkage. Most of the clips are non moving patterns so actual data rate should be very small.

Jeff_DML

01-30-07, 01:33 PM

yeah bars709 is 90.2% NULL packets. I use TSReader lite to look out what is in the transport stream, cool program :cool:

Mr_Bester

01-30-07, 02:34 PM

Thanks, that makes me worry a bit less that I am screwing something up...

HV10Sports

01-30-07, 04:26 PM

Thanks dr1394 for making this available... I cant wait to download more.

I have a beef with mass marketed HDTVs ... they dont seem to be able to display full crisp 60 fields per second from my 1080i recordings. I have some passanger shot footage driving by trees, bushes and signs on the highway, shot with my HV10 at a shutter speed of 1/1000th of a second (for each field) in 1080i.

Each field is immaculate. No motion blurring, excellent focus, just the kind of thing I will use for recording my favorite sports - live. On my PC CRT monitor at full 1920x1080 res, with a refresh rate of 59.94Hz (Nero Showtime bob deinterlacing the 1080i Mpeg-2) objects moving by on the screen appear incredibly real and sharp. Fast moving signage is easily readable.

I cannot duplicate these results on any mass market HDTV. Signs, branches, trees ... all appear incredibly wahsed out/undefined. Even the latest consumer SXRD (Sony) rigs look bad. Quite frankly I'm shocked at how incredibly miserable they are at this sort of task.

With your calibration/performance discs being available to the public hopefully the HDTV manufacturers will be more accountable to reproducing the 1080i signal as received.

That said I have 3 questions:

1) What shutter speed was your park run taken at?

2) Just what kind of Mbit/s rate should I hold my HDTV manufacturer to, in terms of faithful reproduction of EVERYTHING that is in the stream?

3) How can they pass off HDTVs as 1080i capable when they cant render crisp fileds at 60 fields per second????

BTW Very glad you are doing this.

-HV10Sports

dr1394

01-31-07, 03:26 AM

You can find out more about the "Park Run" clip here:

ftp://vqeg.its.bldrdoc.gov/HDTV/SVT_exports/

It's a very difficult clip to code. Did you think the 22.5 Mbps version had acceptable PQ?

Ron

HV10Sports

02-01-07, 09:52 AM

You can find out more about the "Park Run" clip here:

ftp://vqeg.its.bldrdoc.gov/HDTV/SVT_exports/

It's a very difficult clip to code. Did you think the 22.5 Mbps version had acceptable PQ?

Ron

The 22.5 Mbps clips seem to be quite nice in quality. On first impression it seems as though they were taken with a shutter speed of about 1/60th of a second which may allow for some HDTVs to cheat when rendering motion. Not sure if these clips reveal the inadequacies of HDTV displays to display crisp 60 fields per second which is ideal for sports.

I've uploaded a 100 Meg MPEG-2 file shot with my HV10 out an SUV window. It's the only clip of this type on my laptop although I have much better ones I can upload at a later date. It's not perfect... 1440x1080 59.94i 1/1000th sec shutter speed... about 25 Mbps constant bit rate (straight from HDV). Please ignore the irrelevant conversation in the background.

http://www.listvideo.com/

It's in the HV-10 section, and is called "Drive in Country"

I swear to God this looks rock solid on my CRT monitor PC setup. Individual twigs, bits of grass are sharp and clear as they whiz by when I follow them with my gaze: they suffer no motion blurring at all.
My big question is, are there any mass market HDTVs that can display this clip without any blurring/smearing?

I plan to upload a better clip with fast moving signage.

This whole thing about HDTVs not being able to render 60 fields per second perfectly clearly..
I'm not crazy for noticing this am I??

Cheers
Colin
PS: You really have to watch this on a high end PC with CRT monitor to really see how good this actually looks.

Kilgore

02-01-07, 12:18 PM

HDholic

02-01-07, 03:35 PM

dr1394,

Is there a pattern that can be made to test for motion blur on a LCD panel? Perhaps have a circle moving around at different speeds? Would this be useful?

HV10Sports

02-01-07, 03:52 PM

Has anyone tried these test patterns on a Hitachi F59 series HDTV?
Im interested to see how itd PQ stacks up.

dr1394

02-01-07, 06:46 PM

I am having a discussion in the FFDShow Walkthrough thread with Jeremy Duncan (aka 8:13) and I'd like dr1394's input.

If my display is calibrated to Rec. 709 levels using these HD patterns, and I then display Brightness and Contrast patterns on a Rec. 601 calibration disk like GetGray's, should I still be able to see the BTB and WTW bars at all?

I am using TheaterTek with FFDShow using the ColorMatrix Avisynth plugin to convert from 601 to 709 colorspace. I am concerned that this plugin may be clipping BTB and WTW information.
The 601 and 709 matrices only effect colors. Cb and Cr are equal to 128 when there is absence of color (black, white, gray, BTB, WTW). Both matrices will output the same RGB values when Cb and Cr are 128. Just look at the equations:

601
R = Y + 1.371(Cr - 128)
G = Y - 0.698(Cr - 128) - 0.336(Cb - 128)
B = Y + 1.732(Cb - 128)

709
R = Y + 1.54(Cr - 128)
G = Y - 0.459(Cr - 128) - 0.183(Cb - 128)
B = Y + 1.816(Cb - 128)

When Cb and Cr are 128, both equations become R = G = B = Y.

Ron

dr1394

02-01-07, 09:05 PM

dr1394,

Is there a pattern that can be made to test for motion blur on a LCD panel? Perhaps have a circle moving around at different speeds? Would this be useful?
I think I might have some code lying around for this, so it may be fairly easy.

Ron

Kilgore

02-01-07, 09:08 PM

Thanks for the reply, dr1394. If I understand you correctly, the BTB and WTW information contained in the GetGray brightness/contrast patterns should still be visible regardless of whether 601 or 709 colorspace is used, as they only affect color. I was pretty sure my BTB and WTW levels were being clipped by ColorMatrix, now I know this is the case.

dr1394

02-03-07, 12:32 AM

Ron great work!! I would love to see some AVIA style color bars with the flashing boxes. The flashing boxes make it a ton easier to get your adjusts just right. Is this doable?
Here's the REC709 version. I haven't edited this file for XBOX360, since that breaks VideoRedo. I need to find a bitstream startup that works for both.

http://www.w6rz.net/bars709flash.zip

Ron

Alen Koebel

02-05-07, 11:59 AM

dr1394,

Since the zipped iso file you provided on w6rz(dot)net is dated 8/10/06 it apparently does not include any of the test patterns you've created since then. Which of the patterns & test clips downloadable from your page are already included in the iso (or, if it's a shorter list, which aren't)? How would I take all the newer test patterns and clips and put them on a playable HD-DVD compatible disc (with selectable patterns)? Forgive the newbie question, but while I know something about video displays I know very little about dvd authoring.

STL_HD_Guy

02-05-07, 01:10 PM

Here's the REC709 version. I haven't edited this file for XBOX360, since that breaks VideoRedo. I need to find a bitstream startup that works for both.

Ron

Thanks!

Jeff_DML

02-05-07, 03:07 PM

Alen Koebel

02-05-07, 04:03 PM

he didnt create the HD-DVD, some other AVS member did, he is just being a nice guy and hosting it :) . There is a thread about it if you search
Thanks for clearing that up. I had assumed that dr1394 had at least created the test patterns in the iso, if not the iso itself. But it's immaterial, since I'm sure he knows the answers to my questions. Which are: Are any of the patterns that are separately listed on the web page in question contained in the iso image (regardless of who created them)? Or are all those patterns in _addition_ to the ones in the iso image? I haven't burned the disc yet, you see, so I don't know. I'd also like to know how to burn all the patterns that are additional to another HD DVD, to make use of them. I can burn a disc from an iso image but I don't know what to do with "naked" transport streams! I'm asking for a little hand holding here! :)

dr1394

02-05-07, 11:51 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. I had assumed that dr1394 had at least created the test patterns in the iso, if not the iso itself. But it's immaterial, since I'm sure he knows the answers to my questions. Which are: Are any of the patterns that are separately listed on the web page in question contained in the iso image (regardless of who created them)? Or are all those patterns in _addition_ to the ones in the iso image? I haven't burned the disc yet, you see, so I don't know. I'd also like to know how to burn all the patterns that are additional to another HD DVD, to make use of them. I can burn a disc from an iso image but I don't know what to do with "naked" transport streams! I'm asking for a little hand holding here! :)
The .iso file contains just some of the patterns on the website. There was some talk in another thread about making a new .iso file with more patterns.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707769

starting here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9529925&&#post9529925

I guess it never materialized.

As for how to make your own, there's the big thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

I don't have a burner, so I can't help directly.

BTW, I haven't updated

http://www.w6rz.net/allpatterns.zip

in a while, so there's probably new patterns that aren't in that file. I guess I should clean things up a bit.

Ron

8:13

02-06-07, 08:38 PM

dr1394

02-07-07, 03:40 AM

Dr1394,

Please make a Rec.709 Color Ramp bar show 16, 235 levels in a 0, 255 ramp.
One for each color, red, green, blue.
And the best part is that there will be levels that change according to the intensity of each color
on top of each color bar ramp.

Using red as an example;
The last color bar before pure red or pure black will have three levels bar on top of it,
One of these levels bars will show the +5 level before pure black and red.
Then the +2.
Then the 0 for the red, and +1 for the black.

Link to picture (http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8864/levelsty7.jpg)
I didn't quite understand what levels you're interested in. However, I've created this pattern:

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/8595/chromarampiw2.th.jpg (http://img477.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chromarampiw2.jpg)

Is it adequate for your needs? The tick marks indicate where the RGB level (but not necessarily the YCbCr level) increments.

Ron

8:13

02-07-07, 10:53 AM

lovingdvd

02-07-07, 01:09 PM

Hi Ron - thanks for all the hard work done with this project. Having just received my HD DVD player I would absolutely love to have all the new patterns in the zip and into the ISO. Thanks in advance!!

dr1394

02-07-07, 08:56 PM

Check this out. I just added the markers to the picture you made.

Link (http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7144/rampdz5.jpg)

Could you make one like this, but in a .png.
And can you make one for these resolutions;
1280x720
1920x1080

Edit. It's really hard to calibrate it without the greyscale ire bars separating 0-255 levels.
Could you please add a thin strip greyscale ire ramp showing 0-255 levels on top of each color, please ? This would replace the lines you have there now.
It seems there's some confusion about the RGB and YCbCr levels in this test pattern. Let me describe what I've done.

Each color ramp is by generated a program that just loops through the RGB values to produce the YCbCr values to be encoded. So the beginning of the first line of the red ramp looks like this. h is the horizontal pixel number. The ramp starts at pixel 65 and ends at 1857 which is 1792 pixels total. 1792 is 256 * 7, so each level is 7 pixels wide. Then there's 64 pixels of overscan on each side of the pattern (actually 65 on the left and 63 on the right).

h = 65, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 66, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 67, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 68, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 69, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 70, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 71, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 72, r = 1, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 73, r = 1, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 74, r = 1, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 75, r = 1, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 76, r = 1, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 77, r = 1, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 78, r = 1, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 79, r = 2, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 80, r = 2, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 81, r = 2, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 82, r = 2, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 83, r = 2, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 84, r = 2, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 85, r = 2, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 86, r = 3, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 87, r = 3, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 88, r = 3, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 89, r = 3, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 90, r = 3, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 91, r = 3, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 92, r = 3, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 129
h = 93, r = 4, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 130
h = 94, r = 4, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 130
h = 95, r = 4, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 130
h = 96, r = 4, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 130
h = 97, r = 4, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 130
h = 98, r = 4, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 130
h = 99, r = 4, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 128, Cr = 130
h = 100, r = 5, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 130
h = 101, r = 5, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 130
h = 102, r = 5, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 130
h = 103, r = 5, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 130
h = 104, r = 5, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 130
h = 105, r = 5, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 130
h = 106, r = 5, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 130
h = 107, r = 6, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 108, r = 6, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 109, r = 6, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 110, r = 6, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 111, r = 6, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 112, r = 6, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 113, r = 6, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 114, r = 7, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 115, r = 7, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 116, r = 7, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 117, r = 7, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 118, r = 7, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 119, r = 7, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131
h = 120, r = 7, g = 0, b = 0, y = 17, Cb = 127, Cr = 131

And then here's the end of the line.

h = 1801, r = 248, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1802, r = 248, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1803, r = 248, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1804, r = 248, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1805, r = 248, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1806, r = 248, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1807, r = 248, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1808, r = 249, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1809, r = 249, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1810, r = 249, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1811, r = 249, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1812, r = 249, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1813, r = 249, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1814, r = 249, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1815, r = 250, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1816, r = 250, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1817, r = 250, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1818, r = 250, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1819, r = 250, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1820, r = 250, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1821, r = 250, g = 0, b = 0, y = 61, Cb = 103, Cr = 237
h = 1822, r = 251, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1823, r = 251, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1824, r = 251, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1825, r = 251, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1826, r = 251, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1827, r = 251, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1828, r = 251, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1829, r = 252, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1830, r = 252, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1831, r = 252, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1832, r = 252, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1833, r = 252, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1834, r = 252, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1835, r = 252, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 238
h = 1836, r = 253, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1837, r = 253, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1838, r = 253, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1839, r = 253, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1840, r = 253, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1841, r = 253, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1842, r = 253, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1843, r = 254, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1844, r = 254, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1845, r = 254, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1846, r = 254, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1847, r = 254, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1848, r = 254, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1849, r = 254, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 103, Cr = 239
h = 1850, r = 255, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 102, Cr = 240
h = 1851, r = 255, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 102, Cr = 240
h = 1852, r = 255, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 102, Cr = 240
h = 1853, r = 255, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 102, Cr = 240
h = 1854, r = 255, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 102, Cr = 240
h = 1855, r = 255, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 102, Cr = 240
h = 1856, r = 255, g = 0, b = 0, y = 62, Cb = 102, Cr = 240
h = 1857, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 1858, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 1859, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 1860, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 1861, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 1862, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128
h = 1863, r = 0, g = 0, b = 0, y = 16, Cb = 128, Cr = 128

I'm using 8-bit 0 to 255 RGB to create 8-bit 16 to 235 Y and 16 to 240 Cb and Cr with the REC.709 matrix.

This means that the first tick mark is 0 RGB and the last tick mark is 255 RGB. Your lines are at 16 and 235 RGB, which I don't think is what you intended.

Ron

8:13

02-07-07, 09:41 PM

I wanted there to be a line indicating where 16-235 levels are.

The idea was that there would be a solid color (rgb) after 235, and black from 0-16.
The greyscale ire ramp on top of the individual colors would show this.

It's the same idea as in the Caldisc color bar ramp, but for rec.709.

Rec.709 still uses tv levels, right ? Or does it use pc levels ?

dr1394

02-07-07, 10:32 PM

Kilgore

02-08-07, 12:48 AM

8:13, you don't use color ramp patterns to set levels. You use Brightness/Contrast patterns. You use color ramp patterns to check for color decoder deficiencies and proper color gradation

dr1394

02-08-07, 02:25 AM

One thing to note here is that it's better to talk about RGB levels in the same way that specifications like ITU-R BT.601 and ITU-R BT.709 use, normalized to unity. That is, 0 for the minimum R, G or B level and 1 for the maximum R, G or B level.

Using this nomenclature, the pattern I posted previously is a 0 to 1 ramp of R on top, G in the middle and B on the bottom.

For PC RGB levels, the unity normalized values are just multiplied by 255. So the ramp R, G, B values range from 0 to 255.

For Video RGB levels, the unity normalized values are multiplied by 219 and offset by 16. So the ramp R, G, B values range from 16 to 235.

When RGB is converted to YCbCr (with either the BT.601 or BT.709 matrix), you have to normalize the RGB values back to unity. That is, the scaling to get to PC or video levels is undone. No matter whether we use PC or video RGB levels, the same YCbCr levels are produced.

There's no ambiguity in YCbCr. Y = 63, Cb = 102 and Cr = 240 (with BT.709 matrix) is always the most saturated red possible, or R = 1, G = 0 and B = 0 normalized to unity.

Ron

8:13

02-08-07, 09:16 AM

Kilgore,

I know I don't use the greyscale in the getgray color ramp patterns to set the brightness. But it helps, the greyscale on top of the color ramp helps to show if the color is set to low or high. If it's set to low, the greyscale on top of the color ramp will be almost black at 16.

If I understand dr1394 properly. "normalized to unity" means that pc levels and video levels are the same.

PC level red is different than video level red, when we convert to YCbCr, "There's no ambiguity".

dr1394, would you please make another pattern, the same one you made before for me in post # 137, but at 1280x720 resolution ? :)

dr1394

02-09-07, 02:08 AM

8:13

02-09-07, 02:47 AM

Yeah. I think that looks nice. :)

lovingdvd

02-09-07, 09:34 AM

Great work on this Ron. I'm trying to get organized with all this material but not sure what patterns are where.

Is there a list somewhere of what patterns are in the ISO zip?

I see some patterns like the convergence pattern is in .ts format. What's the best recommended player for that? Is there a bmp/tif equivalent?

Also I recall you had made some other patterns such as IRE bars from just 0-10 IRE in 1 IRE steps but do not see where these are posted.

Thanks!

pndunlop

02-16-07, 03:58 PM

Ron;

I stumbled on this thread while searching for hdtv transport streams. Absolutely lovely, you are to be commended! What a find. Thank you.

I've been using many of the files and have now totally confused myself. Wondering if you could point a dunderhead in the right direction?

I have a Sencore HDTV996, which provides an ATSC chan 14 or 15 rf output, playing content from mpeg2 transport streams copied to it's hard drive(s). I've been making use of the test pattern files posted directly, just have to rename the extension to what the 996 uses. (*.trp) They are very good for display evaluation. The overscan is a little scary, the rest are great. Also, park run and the calendar get a little scary. Here are some data points I've observed, wondering if you might comment:

-Have a 1st generation tuner, RCA DTC-100, it does surprisingly well but does not like either park run or calendar, freezes. Some of the other patterns will occaisionally freeze.

-Have a HD mpeg fta / OTA tuner, IT912s, does very well with all the stationary patterns, does not like overscan, plays it ok, but it shifts it left about 5% on my calibrated Mits HD monitor, sometimes it will loose parkrun, displays the message "no signal".

-Have a LG3410a pvr / OTA tuner, it loves overscan, and shows it perfectly centered on the same monitor, go figure, but definitely does not like parkrun at all, again "no signal".

-I found some HD mpegs on a US Navy file site, various high quality shots of space shuttle and some aircraft clips. These I converted to TS using "mpeg stream clip" freeware. Could get occaisional play on the LG but frequent drop outs and "no signal".

-took the box to my sons house, he has a new Mits DLP and all files played beautifully through his set, the shuttle shots were eye watering. Also, all the patterns display wonderfully. Also, clear bandwidth observations between the CRT and the DLP, the 1080p DLP displays all of the information in both multiburst patterns, the CRT displays a gray panel where the 37.5mhz information is, which is typical for consumer grade CRT HDTV's, and the CRT misses a bunch of the information in the other multiburst pattern.

I was suprised at the differences I have observed between various ATSC tuners. I would like to get output stabilized enough that I can consider the output signal a good source that is playable on all HDTV's. Just wondering if you have any ideas, places I can search out, or things I could do to the more demanding clips.

thanks again for the patterns
phil

dr1394

02-16-07, 06:40 PM

HDholic

02-16-07, 08:25 PM

I just tried the video quality clips (1920x1080 22.5 Mbps) and it's a jagged mess! What does it mean, how can I fix that?

I'm playing on my monitor 1440x900.

pndunlop

02-16-07, 09:11 PM

Remember, the Sencore is transmitting an ATSC signal, so the maximum TS bitrate is 19.392658 Mbps. I don't think the 22.5 Mbps Park Run and Calendar test clips will work properly on the Sencore.

All the other patterns have a Transport Stream rate of 19.392658 Mbps (or close to it), so they should be okay.

The 1440x1080 and 1280x1080 Park Run and Calendar clips may cause problems on older decoders if they can't handle the sub-sampled resolution.

BTW, I've posted some new animation content (although it's very high bitrate - 40 Mbps Transport Stream rate).

http://www.w6rz.net/1080p30.zip

It's a big file, 308,528,945 bytes

Ron

Ron; Thanks for the response, I got to thinking about what I'd posted earlier and decided I should do a better test, while writing things down! I just finished a full test, this time taking notes instead of relying on memory. Results:

All test pattern clips from your site, including parkrun and new mobile calendar, play fine on all 4 tuners I've mentioned.

The nasa / navy mpg HD files I converted with stream clip play super well on the new Mits DLP my son has, and play with occasional audio drop outs and break up on the DTC-100, but do not play on either the LG 3410A or the IT912s, the 912s displays a dark screen, but indicates good signal strength, the LG just insists there is no signal.

So, I'm thinking stream clip isn't up to the conversion of HD mpeg program files back to transport stream,,,, ??? Although I can't explain why it will play on 2 out of 4 tuners, 1 really old and the other state of the art.

Do you know of a program that will take HD mpeg program files and convert them into transport streams? heh heh,,,, one that doesn't cost ones first born? I can find several items on the web that will convert transport streams to playable program files, but I'm not doing so well going the other way. Could be I can't read between the lines, I'm sort of out of my element here........

Thanks again for your insight

Phil

dr1394

02-16-07, 09:31 PM

I just tried the video quality clips (1920x1080 22.5 Mbps) and it's a jagged mess! What does it mean, how can I fix that?

I'm playing on my monitor 1440x900.
It's an interlaced clip. You need to turn on a deinterlacer. VLC can do that (but it takes more CPU).

Ron

dr1394

02-16-07, 09:40 PM

Ron; Thanks for the response, I got to thinking about what I'd posted earlier and decided I should do a better test, while writing things down! I just finished a full test, this time taking notes instead of relying on memory. Results:

All test pattern clips from your site, including parkrun and new mobile calendar, play fine on all 4 tuners I've mentioned.

The nasa / navy mpg HD files I converted with stream clip play super well on the new Mits DLP my son has, and play with occasional audio drop outs and break up on the DTC-100, but do not play on either the LG 3410A or the IT912s, the 912s displays a dark screen, but indicates good signal strength, the LG just insists there is no signal.

So, I'm thinking stream clip isn't up to the conversion of HD mpeg program files back to transport stream,,,, ??? Although I can't explain why it will play on 2 out of 4 tuners, 1 really old and the other state of the art.

Do you know of a program that will take HD mpeg program files and convert them into transport streams? heh heh,,,, one that doesn't cost ones first born? I can find several items on the web that will convert transport streams to playable program files, but I'm not doing so well going the other way. Could be I can't read between the lines, I'm sort of out of my element here........

Thanks again for your insight

Phil
Yes, not all Transport Stream muxers are created equal. A good one has to follow the specification in terms of what's called T-STD buffering. It has to do with the elementary streams arriving at the video and audio decoders at the correct time. Too early, and the T-STD buffer overflows. To late, and the T-STD buffer underflows.

The only TS muxer I know that works correctly is from Manzanita. But it's $900, a bit over the typical hobbyist budget.

I think Elecard has a TS muxer, but I haven't tried it.

Ron

pndunlop

02-17-07, 09:31 AM

Ron;

Thanks for the feedback. I've downloaded the Elecard muxer trial, I'll see if I can get it to do something magnificient. You are correct, the $900 model is a little extreme!

Thanks

Phil

pndunlop

02-24-07, 10:26 AM

Hi Ron;

FWI I figured it out, what a dodo head I was for not trying the simplest approach first! I fiddled with several stream editing programs, all for naught. I couldn't get consistent play, all would play on the oldest tuner. Then I noticed the program was showing a different sub channel. Then I tried just copying the mpeg onto the Sencore and changing the file extension to what the Sencore wants. Played it to my crankiest tuner on chan 15, and experiemented with channel scans.

All the test patterns you have posted play on 15.1 or 14.1. (the Sencore will output on either UHF 14 or 15) The Nasa clips all play on 15.2. One of the other mpegs I've found remaps to 7.1 of all things. Anyway, they all play just fine now that I've found the secret decoder ring. I'm more impressed with that Sencore than I thought I would be, it's very cool.

Thanks again for your input.

Phil

lovingdvd

02-25-07, 11:26 PM

I was able to burn the HD DVD ISO and play it back in the Toshiba XA2 - worked great.

However there are many patterns on your web site I am interested in which are not included in the ISO.

Is there a procedure somewhere that outlines how to burn those files to create my own HD DVD disc with those extra patterns I need? Thanks!

Mr_Bester

02-25-07, 11:40 PM

It's a sticky in the HD-DVD forum here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146)
Dug

nate358

02-28-07, 02:22 AM

has anyone made a Xbox 360 playable version of this disc?.... I just tried 2 different methods and neither worked on my 360 HD-addon. I was able to get a partial version that a member posted to work.... but I really need the whole iso to work.

I am really surprized that this hasn't been done already in the past 3 months!

padrino121

03-20-07, 05:24 PM

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking for. What latency are you trying to determine or measure? The judder test patterns have a frame number counting in the upper right hand corner.

Something like that?

Ron

It's been some time but the judder test pattern did end up suiting my needs. Is it possible to make a longer pattern with the frame count, perhaps 1 minute? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Brian

dr1394

03-21-07, 02:04 AM

It's been some time but the judder test pattern did end up suiting my needs. Is it possible to make a longer pattern with the frame count, perhaps 1 minute? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Brian
Here you go. 5 minute clip. 23,878,702 bytes.

http://www.w6rz.net/juddertest.zip

Ron

lovingdvd

03-21-07, 09:41 AM

Here you go. 5 minute clip. 23,878,702 bytes.

http://www.w6rz.net/juddertest.zip

Ron

Thanks Ron! Can someone explain what exactly to look for when using this (how to spot the judder)?

I never see judder, but always have heard that its the type of thing that many people do not notice - but once its pointed it, you tend to notice it often. Perhaps I shouldn't go looking for it! :)

dr1394

03-22-07, 05:24 AM

Thanks Ron! Can someone explain what exactly to look for when using this (how to spot the judder)?

I never see judder, but always have heard that its the type of thing that many people do not notice - but once its pointed it, you tend to notice it often. Perhaps I shouldn't go looking for it! :)
Actually, this pattern has an interlaced moving bar (it moves 8 pixels in each field, so there is no judder due to frame timing. It's as smooth as silk on a CRT moniter.

It will show if your software decoder is having performance issues. Any herky-jerkiness would be due to running near 100% CPU (or I-frames causing peaks of over 100% CPU).

Ron

padrino121

03-22-07, 06:00 PM

Here you go. 5 minute clip. 23,878,702 bytes.

Ron

Thanks Ron, it's a big help. If you don't mind I have one small additional request, this frame counter rolls over at 3600 frames so it meets the needs for what I was looking for however can you make one that ticks all the way up through 5 minutes?

Brian

sharkcohen

03-25-07, 03:43 PM

Wow, these are fantastic, I need to hook my Linux workstation up to my Westinghouse 42w2 and try these out. Thanks!

dr1394

03-28-07, 01:15 AM

Thanks Ron, it's a big help. If you don't mind I have one small additional request, this frame counter rolls over at 3600 frames so it meets the needs for what I was looking for however can you make one that ticks all the way up through 5 minutes?

Brian
Okay, here's 8 minutes with unique frame numbers.

http://www.w6rz.net/juddertest.zip

Ron

HDholic

03-31-07, 07:46 PM

Is there a way to burn these on regular DVDs to read as Blu-Ray? Or has anyone loaded these to a Ps3?

JohnnyG

04-02-07, 11:35 AM

Just found this and wanted to say THANKS! The plan is to write it to an SD memory card and play back in a ROKU HD-1000 PhotoBridge.

JohnnyG

04-02-07, 03:25 PM

I didn't realize these were all transport stream files...anybody know how to convert them to "vanilla" MPEG2? I tried HDTVtoMPEG2 but the resultant files are unplayable.

JohnnyG

04-02-07, 03:44 PM

Nevermind...TSReader gave me the PID numbers and problem solved (0x31 video, 0x32 audio) :)

Gunnar

04-03-07, 03:37 AM

dr1394

04-03-07, 05:51 AM

Thanks for the patterns! I`ve used some of them when calibrating my Barco with a Snazio mediaplayer. I used the 10-100 IRE windows, and the ramp pattern. Recently I got a HD A1 HD-DVD player and wanted to put the test patterns on HD-DVD, but I get a popup message in VideRedo: "Buffer underrun". In the VideoRedo log it says PTS underrun (or something similar). I can play the .ts files fine in the VideoRedo preview window. Same error message appears if I lasso several files in VideRedo, and selects "Combine".

Anyone have a solution for this? (have read the huge HD-DVD authoring guide)

I have noticed that there is a HD-DVD .ISO-file with some of the patterns, but it doesn`t contain the 10-100 IRE grey windows.

Gunnar
I had heard there were some problems with VideoRedo. Does this occur with all the files or just some? I had adjusted some of the most popular files to play on XBOX 360, and I'm wondering if that's causing problems with VideoRedo. You can tell which files have been adjusted for XBOX 360, since they have a subdirectory called "hdenc" in the .zip file (which is a mistake in itself, but not a big one).

Hopefully, there's some middle ground where the files can work for both XBOX 360 and VideoRedo.

Ron

Gunnar

04-03-07, 05:52 PM

The error message was: "Transport Muxer Buffer Underflow, details in VideoReDo.log"
Also, the crosshatch.ts from 01/09/07 couldn`t be loaded into videredo. Missing PIDs (or similar). The crosshatch.ts dated 08/25/05 can be loaded into Videredo.
I found a work around for the first problem: Save each of the .ts files as .mpeg from Videoredo. Then open Videredo again and select (lasso) all the .mpeg files. Then select "combine". Then save as a new .mpeg. This file loads fine into Ulead Movie Factory.

BUT I`m not able to set chapter marks on the grey fields. I inserted a few seconds of text (in the MF text editor) in the beginning of each grey field, and then I`m able to set chapter marks on the frames that contain the text. But then MF converts the video when I press "Burn". Grr..

I guess this means that the testpatterns can`t be trusted anymore?

Gunnar

JohnnyG

04-04-07, 03:24 PM

Things are working great on the ROKU! All the patterns fit easily on a 1GB SD card.

What pattern is best to use for black-level (PLUGE) setting?

jon_vogel

04-07-07, 09:12 AM

Thanks for the patterns!! I was frustrated with the lack of HD test discs until I found this thread!

I'll throw in a request for a couple patterns: 75% color bars for red and green filters

Thanks again for your work!

dr1394

07-10-07, 03:05 AM

Just a minor update. I've added an encoding of the Elephants Dream Open Source movie to the website. It is coded in 1080p@24.0 at 40 Mbps CBR.

Ron

hlsmile

07-11-07, 01:19 PM

Thanks.

jodeci4l

07-19-07, 09:42 PM

I'm a total noob to the test patterns. I downloaded and got the HD DVD Iso to work, but i wanted some feedback. What is passing( or no loss of resolution ) I know it seems so trivial but i want to know what i'm looking at and what is considered passing. They are the first maybe five patterns.

WTS

07-30-07, 09:24 PM

Hi,

Has anyone put together the allpatterns.zip file into an iso to burn to DVD yet?

Thanks DR1394 for your ready to burn iso.

JohnnyG

07-31-07, 02:58 PM

Since it's been 4 months since the last time I asked :), is there a specific pattern for setting black level? Something with below black or bars just above black?

dr1394

07-31-07, 03:27 PM

Since it's been 4 months since the last time I asked :), is there a specific pattern for setting black level? Something with below black or bars just above black?
Try the "needle pulse" pattern.

http://www.w6rz.net/needlepulse.zip

1 and 2 pixel wide pulses ("needle" pulse) with flashing -4, 4, 8, 92, 96 and 104 IRE bars on 0 and 100 IRE background 1920x1080

Ron

fazzk

08-01-07, 02:49 AM

Thanks for all the files! I have been looking around and could not find any until yours.

I have a request though. I just bought a 32" 720p HDTV and I am hooking up my PS3 via HDMI and Xbox 360 with component. I will have a digital cable box hooked up with normal RF connection. Can you PLEASE tell me which files I need to download and how to get these files on my TV. And then, how to use these files? I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

JohnnyG

08-02-07, 03:39 PM

Perfect! Thanks Ron!!

WTS

08-02-07, 05:56 PM

Hi Johnny,

DO you have the means to turn these ts files into an HD iso? If so do you think you could do up an iso for the allpatterns file?

Thanks

JohnnyG

08-03-07, 09:09 AM

I've converted all the ones I have into plain vanilla MPEG2 files (just via transport stream conversion), so I suppose I can. I can download the .iso from Ron's page and just make the same disc but with plain MPEG2 files. Is this what you're after?

WTS

08-03-07, 03:29 PM

Hi Johnny,

YEs I have the iso file which is on his site now but it doesn't have the patterns I'm looking for. The patterns I want are in the allpatterns.zip file but these are all .TS files and they need to be put through videredo and moviefactory( I believe) to get them into a HD type iso with menus (just like the iso which someone made with the other files) so I can burn it to a dvd. I can't recall who did the iso on his site, his AVS ID is something like RADA----.

Yes I'd really appreciate if you could turn those into an iso, as I'm sure lots of others would like it too. I'm sure dr1394 would let you put it on his site for all to use.

I don't need it at the moment because I'm going on holidays for 2 weeks.
Thanks

PencilGeek

08-09-07, 12:43 PM

WTS

08-14-07, 05:34 PM

Hi Pencilgeek,

Thanks, I did a search for any thing with allpatterns in the search but didn't come up with anything new. i did download your bluray zip, maybe someday I might have a bluray machine too.
If you wouldn't mind pointing me to where i might fine this iso I would be greatful, thanks.

How hard is it to convert the bluray files over?

alluringreality

10-04-07, 11:06 AM

Thanks for the patterns, they've been useful. Is there any chance that you could add a few more for a full grayscale and color calibration? Alternately, could someone maybe give me some idea how I could go about creating correct YCbCr patterns on my own?

As an amateur using HCFR, one major issue is getting a good calibration disk. GetGray is nice for SD, but for HD there's not many choices that I'm aware of besides DVE HD and the few patterns on Sony Blu-rays. Neither of those interfaces well with single spot measurements so I'd like to create a disk that would be easier to use. Your patterns easily seem the best start.

#1 - 75% gray window - In order to make color decoder changes, it would be nice to have a 75% gray to go with the 75% color patterns already on the site.

#2 - 100% color windows (709) - To measure primaries and secondaries, I think 100% color patterns are intended to be used. I can't adjust my primaries so this actually isn't anything I necessarily need myself, but for a full grayscale and color calibration it would be useful.

#3 - Above white window - I'm almost sure that my TV is red limited and always shows above-white. I figure that might be somewhat common for digital displays, so it would be nice to have an above-white pattern to go with the gray patterns for setting grayscale. The shade from the above-white bar in the bars and ramp pattern would probably work.

#4 - Flashing color decoder bar pattern (709) - For Color decoder settings, it would be nice to have a flashing pattern like the color bars pattern you added. A basic idea would be to have red, green, and blue each as a solid bar. Then on top of the bars have gray and the two related secondary colors flash on and off. There are a lot of options for how to do this, but I included a couple pictures for 1/3 of the screen.

Here is a preliminary HD DVD disk of the current grayscale and color relevant patterns. This was merely created for my own use with MovieFactory. The menu RGB images appear to be incorrect, so don't take any measurements from the menu. The only things this might currently be good for is 0% to 100% grayscale windows, and to set color and tint from the flashing bars pattern. Of course if dr1394 has any objections to the file I'll gladly remove it. http://www.sendspace.com/file/9iwytp

HDholic

10-12-07, 09:36 PM

dr1394,

Apparently there is a new "Motion Resolution" pattern used by HD GURU where it measures... obviously motion resolution:). I this something that you can recreate?

Thanks!

JohnnyG

11-12-07, 02:13 PM

dr1394

11-12-07, 07:05 PM

Does anybody know how I could burn these patterns onto a regular DVD discs - in HD format - that would be readable by HD DVD players and Blu-ray players (specifically a PS3)?

I apologize if this info is already in this thread...I've read through it before and don't recall seeing it.
You can burn to HD-DVD fairly easily. See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

There's a ready to burn .iso file on my site:

http://www.w6rz.net/hdtestpatterns.zip

For Blu-ray, see these threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=815296

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=790449

Ron

JohnnyG

11-13-07, 08:51 AM

Perfect...thanks, Ron!

John Mason

11-13-07, 09:57 AM

Apparently there is a new "Motion Resolution" pattern used by HD GURU where it measures... obviously motion resolution:). I this something that you can recreate?

The article (http://hdguru.com/will-the-2007-hdtv-you-choose-give-you-all-resolution-you-expect/187/) describing the test patterns for the actual magazine-published article mentions converging-line resolution wedges being shifted left and right for the motion portion. Maybe that means rotated left/right. But the results are given for only vertical resolution, AIUI.

Seems that both horizontal (what's generally meant by measured format effective resolution, both static and motion) and vertical resolution are significant.

The video experts approving the ATSC format, table 2.3 (http://www.atsc.org/news_information/papers/1995_acats/tsreport.pdf)(test results), used a rotating test pattern at 5 rpm for motion testing (see Note 3, table 2.3), and reported diagonal resolution readings as well, describing it as the vector sum of horiz. and vertical rez (see 2.1 Resolution intro). There seems to be diagonal wedges in the resolution test pattern used by HD Guru (1st article link above). Some video-processing algorithms manipulate diagonal signal information. This earlier table (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=326565#post326565) converts the ATSC committee's table 2.3 to simply lines/PH or PW for 16X9 HDTV, omitting diagonal readings.

AIUI, it's also important to distinguish between Nyquist-limited sampled test patterns (reduced resolution after reconstruction filtering) you'd get from a TV camera or telecine scan, apparently used for ATSC approval testing, and non-sampled computer or test-equipment patterns, which can produce full HD-format resolutions on adequate displays. -- John