hey guys. i know it's too early to be asking this, but maybe someone who attended CES may know the answer. Will the Spyder TV Pro work as a color tool with Colorfacts?

Thanks.
Carmine.

What software did you plug your xy data into?

None, I just used GetGray's 5% gray windows (yes I donated) and adjusted the 'Cuts' using 20% and the 'Gains' using 80%. I kept going back a forth until they were both as close as possible. That in itself is a longish loop. I find that the SpyderTV sample rate of 4 seconds seems slow and it never seems to take 2 consecutive samples the same so I let it do several samples before making changes. Then I checked the xy values of the other windows (0% to 100%) to see that they were not too far off. I take it the software you mention is something to plot the color temperature from 0% to 100%. If that is the case, then it would be a long loop time to take 20 samples, import to a spread sheet, analyse, adjust and loop. Maybe that is what it takes to get good grays?

If they add a RGB tracking graph as an output...it would help a lot...and we can skip any external sheet

Disto
On my rplcd using the spydertv I find that the accuracy of the 20% gray window reading would appear to not be very good. If I adjusted the 20% window to ideal spec I would never get the rest in line. For me the 30% window is the lowest I worry about. Could just be my tv though.
When I started I did find that I could "force" a desirable reading at a particular stimulation, rather than finding a balance. I even learned to "force" somewhat close readings from 30 to 100% at 10% intervals. Untill I saw the balance of the primaries and secondaries I had fairly good xy readings, but the white balance and secondary colors were not really correct.
see cie.jpg
The triangles are where the colors should be, the x is where I am now, the first one I ran was not even close.
Just my experience.
If someone sees something that will help us noobs please chime in

Disto
One more thing
Set the spyder to take a 9 second reading, that should help also.

Disto
One more thing
Set the spyder to take a 9 second reading

Pray tell, how?

TIA

In the support diagnostic window, where it says reading time in (sec): 4
4 is default, backspace or delete and type in 9.

Pray tell, how?

TIA

In the /support mode there is a window, Reading Time (in sec): the default is 4. Change it there. I quickly tried it and it does seem to be a little more consistant. Thanks Muggo. I will try it again using 30% and 80% but I doubt it will change the green tint up top.

Arwe,

You can upgrade from the Spyder products to the Syder pro for a upgrade fee.

Larry

I talked with them also and the $699.00 price is real BUT they told me that if they scan you when it rolls out there will be a discount when they e-mail you from the show. They are expecting it to be out in March.

Does anyone have an Idea if this is the way to go????

Bill any idea's on this???

Larry - I expect this will be the way to go, but I haven't seen the product yet. Since we know that the underpinning of the STV is ColorFacts, my guess is that they have enabled some more features from CFacts for the STV Pro. Again, I'm guessing here! My wife wouldn't let me go to Vegas for CES (wedding anniversary and all), so I couldn't see the product in person. If they ship in March, then we'll all know soon enough.

Later,
Bill

Maybe that is what it takes to get good grays?
IME, absolutely! If you read my calibration guide, you will see that it took me several runs (and about three hours) to calibrate my H77 (DLP FP). This was for one input (DVI) and calibrating in the service menu. It was only after I did this that my "strong greens" (Theoden's beard in LOTR looked like it had algae growing in it, and gold seemed to be growing ambergris) went away.

There is a real learning curve to balancing an entire grayscale that just doing a two point calibration misses. The key is knowing how "visible" the error is, not just the absolute deviation, so looking at Delta E* (dE) or Delta C* (dC) is the real key. NOT the RGB balance graph (though it helps plan changes to various settings), nor the CCT graphs. For me, dE is the one ring that rules them all. Okay, enough Tolkien.

Check the lead posts of this thread. I posted my beginning gamma, CCT and RGB balance graphs there. Also, check my calibration guide. It has both the before AND after dE graphs. The thing to note, I had calibrated with AVIA prior to measuring my projector for the "before," and my dE ranged from a low of about 3 to almost 20 (Yikes! :eek: ). After calibrating, my dE had a spike at 20%, but was basically 4 or under from 30% - 100%.

Sorry, I'll get off the pulpit now! :)

Later,
Bill

hey guys. i know it's too early to be asking this, but maybe someone who attended CES may know the answer. Will the Spyder TV Pro work as a color tool with Colorfacts?

Thanks.
Carmine.
Carmine - Yes. The original CFacts used a modified Spyder1, and the latest version (6.0) ships with the STV. With the STV Pro coming out, my copy of CFacts will probably be superfluous since I also have Jeff Meier's (UMR's) software for my EyeOne.

Later,
Bill

I talked with Barsa and sang your efforts. She said beta testing is starting now.

Larry

I talked with Barsa and sang your efforts. She said beta testing is starting now.
:o :o

If the beta is starting now, then that's a good sign. Colorvision doesn't seem to go to beta unless the product is pretty solid (more like acceptance testing in other contexts...).

Later,
Bill

If the new products starts shipping in march, we'll just have to wait.. I hope youre right regarding CFacts features implementation into the Spyder software Ursa. That would be great :)

In the /support mode there is a window, Reading Time (in sec): the default is 4. Change it there. I quickly tried it and it does seem to be a little more consistant. Thanks Muggo. I will try it again using 30% and 80% but I doubt it will change the green tint up top.

Is this option /support also present in the spyderpro?

No, instead you get easy access to the colorimeter tool, rather than the unsupported "/support" flag. :)

The key is knowing how "visible" the error is, not just the absolute deviation, so looking at Delta E* (dE) or Delta C* (dC) is the real key. NOT the RGB balance graph (though it helps plan changes to various settings), nor the CCT graphs. For me, dE is the one ring that rules them all. Okay, enough Tolkien.



Ok, how does one learn about the Deltas.

Start with my calibration guide, then hit www.brucelindbloom.com. Follow that up by reading as much of Charles Poynton's writings as possible.

Later,
Bill

Start with my calibration guide, then hit www.brucelindbloom.com. Follow that up by reading as much of Charles Poyton's writings as possible.

Later,
Bill

I've been reading Poyton's Digital Television and HDTV Algorithms and Interfaces. Great stuff, but some of the math is a little over my head.

Thanks,
Mark

Mark - It really helps to be able to triangulate Poynton with other references, e.g., Bruce Lindbloom's site, Keith Jack's book, etc. Once you "get it", though, it does begin to make much greater sense. After that, the arithmetic isn't that bad, though the matrix math does tend to irritate me at times (DffEq and Vector Calc was a LONG time ago).

Later,
Bill

Hey Guys,

I wanted to stop in, read some of this (giant) thread, and see if I could help clear a few things up.

When you have 3 products designed for home theater calibration, and three more designed for digital imaging calibration (that can sometimes be used in a home theater environment), I suppose there is bound to be a bit of confusion between them.


In general...

You can use the non-HT-related Spyder2Pro for your calibration if you use a COMPUTER based system in your home theater full-time as your primary video source. For instance, an HTPC with scaling video card, HDTV reception card, Tivo-style recording capabilities, DVD drive, etc. or a Media Center PC. You can do a very precise calibration in the computer's video card LUTs, but only for those sources going through the video card, of course. If you have sources that DON'T go through a computer based system, and you have adjustments on your display, you may wish to calibrate the display directly instead.

SpyderTV is a friendly, easy tool for optimizing front panel controls (contrast, brightness, color, tint, color temperature preset). For performing lower level more complicated adjustments, a more sophisticated tool is needed.

SpyderTV Pro, available this Spring, is a product designed for installers to be able to optimize their customer's displays. In addition to everything that SpyderTV does, SpyderTV Pro supports front projectors, has steps for working with grayscale cuts and gains, has a customizable report, and a timeline to jump around to any step at any time. SpyderTV Pro also makes a determination when the removal of the baffle filter and using the second set of calibration coefficients will increase accuracy and will inform you to do so. The basic SpyderTV should have the baffle attached at all times.

We will have an upgrade process in place for customers who purchased SpyderTV who wish to purchase SpyderTV Pro.

Bill wrote:
With the STV Pro coming out, my copy of CFacts will probably be superfluous

Not at all.

ColorFacts Professional is NOT being discontinued, phased out, or in any way pushed aside by the SpyderTV products. In fact, ColorFacts is doing as well as it ever has. Right now, SpyderTV is brand new and in the spotlight while we generate interest and recognition. It has been receiving the lion's share of our development time and some nifty new features. However, ColorFacts will continue to remain our flagship home theater calibration product, and you will see some very powerful new features added to ColorFacts this year as well.

SpyderTV is to front panel adjustments what ColorFacts is to low level adjustments.

SpyderTV adjusts Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint and Color Temperature presets. ColorFacts focuses on the more difficult and dramatic Primaries, Secondaries, Gamma and Grayscale. Also, ColorFacts can be used with spectroradiometers, SLR measuring devices, and just about everything that can measure color. It can be used with signal generators to calibrate inputs for which getting a signal can be difficult (HDTV, set-top box). It is designed for installers, professional calibrators and anyone interested in making money performing calibrations for others.

The home theater calibration product line from Datacolor has "Good", "Better" and "Best" products. Each of them is a good choice for the market for which it was designed, and none of them are going away. You can upgrade to the next level at any time you wish.

I will be monitoring this thread on and off when I can, so I can give you guys some information "from the horse's mouth".

Thanks for such great interest and such a lively discussion of our home theater calibration products!


Mark Hunter
Technical Director, Home Theater Products
Datacolor, Inc.

First of all, thanks for re-entering the 'lion's den'! ;)

Second, I'm beginning to get a warm and fuzzy, strike that, a warm and focused feeling. :D


We will have an upgrade process in place for customers who purchased SpyderTV who wish to purchase SpyderTV Pro.

Mark Hunter
Technical Director, Home Theater Products
Datacolor, Inc.

OK, guys. After sitting on it for a while, I hooked up the SpyderTV and ran the program. First try, I got a VERY brown/red result but realized that I had entered inadequate info in the Color Temp app. The second time, I entered all the values (in +/-500K increments) and ran it again. This time, the result was less skewed but still noticeably and annoyingly brown/red and completely unacceptable to my wife who wears the eyes in this family.

My original setup using DVE is much more balanced and pleasing to all. Now, I ain't a video expert but these results seem way out of line. Any ideas?

BTW, used a Moon Orbiter player into the Fujitsu P50/40 via a DVI-HDMI cable.

Kal

Kal - Have you tried the "/support" flag after using DVE/AVIA?

Kal - Have you tried the "/support" flag after using DVE/AVIA?

Yes just to see if it worked and it did. However, I did not record the info. I was hoping to avoid the spreadsheets and just use STV as intended. Since I am somewhat color-blind, I discount my ability to set anything by 'eye' but my wife (who used to do color-matching in the fashion business) confirms that my DVE settings are excellent and the STV settings suck.

I can post my results/reports after the weekend since the display is in the weekend house and we only have dial-up up there.

Kal

Hate to say it - but I'd go with the wife on this, then! :) That is, until you go through a full calibration (spreadsheet and all). If she still hates it after that, then I'd be really curious what her feedback would be!

Later,
Bill

I agree and that's what we do. OTOH, I am really surprised that the STV can be SO far off. Worse, in fact, than any randomly-selected in store demo!

Kal

A shot in the dark, but I seem to remember that with one of the softwares, you have to remove the filter from the front of the Spyder otherwise the image will end up too red. I wonder if that's the case here?

Gary

A shot in the dark, but I seem to remember that with one of the softwares, you have to remove the filter from the front of the Spyder otherwise the image will end up too red. I wonder if that's the case here?
Gary

I do not think that applies to the bundled STV software.

BTW, here's the report. Any comments?

Kal

The red/brown could be caused by a blue fall off at low light levels. If I recall correct the spyder only measures color temperature at white. I had the exact same problem with my Hitachi CRT RPTV before I calibrated the whole greyscale curve. If white was set to D65 then they greys would turn brown/red. For a while my greyscale curve went white-blue-brown because blue clipped at high output levels, causing a bump in the middle range, and then it fell off near black.
Something doesn't look right with the contrast graph. I would put both brightness and contrast controls back in the middle and then redo the the adjustments.

I do not think that applies to the bundled STV software.

BTW, here's the report. Any comments?

Kal
Kal - Looking at your report, the Color and Tint did not seem to move much from what you had set previously. I would have suspected these to be the issue, but your wife would have to be either a true golden eye for that to have made as big of a difference as I interpreted your post, or these aren't the issue. Your brightness and contrast had big changes, but I doubt these are driving your coloration difficulties.

My guess is that it is the big shift in color temperature that is causing the issue. For that, I would recommend spending some time to take a set of measurements and see what Rader's spreadsheet spits back for color temp. When I tried to use the wizard on my H77, it gave me a completely different answer than what Greg Rogers had for the H79. When I went back and did a full calibration, it turned out that Greg's experience with the H79 did apply to my H77, and I reverted back to the color temp setting recommended in the H79 review.

If you have access to a good review for your model, you may want to check what it recommends. If not, then I would start by measuring the CCT you had and the CCT recommended by the STV to see which is actually closer. You are looking for two things when you do it: 1) is which temp setting gives you the smoothest response corves, and b) which one gives you the least amount of error in white. You will ultimately bring the CCT into line by calibrating the grayscale. You just want the CCT that gives you the easiest path to get there.

Later,
Bill

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but can the new SpyderTV PRO also be used with a HTPC just like the PRO 2 Studio?

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but can the new SpyderTV PRO also be used with a HTPC just like the PRO 2 Studio?
Not a dumb question at all (it may belong better in the STV Pro thread, though! ;) ). The short answer is "Don't know". The medium length answer is "We should expect, at a minimum, to be able to use this with HTPC-based displays for calibrating the display, even if it does not do profiles."

I'm already committed to getting one of these (this seems to be the end-game of my quest for a good calibration instrument under $1k), so I'll most likely write up a separate review thread to discuss it once I've had a chance to get my hands on it.

Later,
Bill

Thanks, guys. I will reset and repeat and also try a spreadsheet (although I was trying to avoid thinking about it).

BTW, one should not judge the changes ("Looking at your report, the Color and Tint did not seem to move much from what you had set previously.") from this report as the previous setting was the forementioned awful STV result, not my original DVE settings. I will revert to these for the next round.

Kal

Anyone know what the latest version of SpyderTV is, and where can I get it?

Did you try Colorvision's site? http://www.colorvision.com

Mark

I'm considering getting STV. My PC is about 10/12 feet from my tv. Will the suplied USB cable be long enough. I couldn't find info on it's length.

I'm considering getting STV. My PC is about 10/12 feet from my tv. Will the suplied USB cable be long enough. I couldn't find info on it's length.

No. I have the same dimensions and ended up adding a USB-extension cable. BTW, I think the original cable is 6feet.

Kal

Did you try Colorvision's site? http://www.colorvision.com

Mark

That's the first place I went. There is no SpyderTV software there, only Sypder2, Pro, PhotoCal, OptiCal and printer stuff.

That's the first place I went. There is no SpyderTV software there, only Sypder2, Pro, PhotoCal, OptiCal and printer stuff.

And that would tend to tell you that there is no other versions available for the general public.

Kal,

Thx alot for the info. :)

Disto,

You could try Ram Electronics (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/SpyderTV.html). They're an AVSForum sponsor too. But doesn't mention the version but says free software updates. :)

Try http://support.colorvision.ch/?_a=downloads
Scroll to the bottom of the page.

Kal

The STV app also has an updater that looks for a new version whenever you load the software. Of course, it is still a might buggy, but that seems to be limited to its shutdown process, not the actual updating process.

It states here (https://www.digitalgraphicsresources.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=214) that the SpyderTV Pro is shipping in early February!

Alvin

It states here (https://www.digitalgraphicsresources.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=214) that the SpyderTV Pro is shipping in early February!

Alvin
:eek: :eek: If so, then WOW! do they overestimate their development timelines!

Try http://support.colorvision.ch/?_a=downloads
Scroll to the bottom of the page.

Thanks! The /support is even better than ever. It has an extra read out ... Color Temp.

And that would tend to tell you that there is no other versions available for the general public.

Seek and thy shall find!


However, the new version did not help in my case. The result is still too green. I did not use a spread sheet. First I do not have one and second, it is my HTPC and I do not have any spread sheet software on it. I tried to adjust the 'cuts' at 10%, 20% 30% 40% and the gains at 70% 80% 90 % and 100%. I have stared at the screen so much that I can now see the green in the gray scale. My current work around is to adjust for 6500 Color Temp then reduce green until I can no longer see it. Yellows and blond hair are a good place to judge.

It states here (https://www.digitalgraphicsresources.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=214) that the SpyderTV Pro is shipping in early February!

Alvin
Checked with the folks at Colorvision. They say "no way" to an early Feb ship date, so I think the last official word still stands which puts it in the late March/early April timeframe.

Later,
Bill

Bill,

The beta testers did not get any gear yet and won't for a week or two so you are right on....

Larry

Hi all and thanks for 19 pages of thought provoking stimulation!

I am considering whether or not to get STV (or even wait on STV Pro). My question concerns calibrating my display for different input sources.

I have a Sony GWIV, input is Panasonic XP-30 DVD and Moto 6412 DVR, using different sets of components.

I have tweaked the display using combinations of AVIA, DVE, UMR's tweaks and HDNet test patterns, via UM and SM adjustments. Been lots of fun, but I have developed a "it's still not quite right syndrome". I have only eyeballed greyscale and have my doubts about how good my "eye" is.

Most of my tweaking has been through the DVD then transferred to HD input and results in a very nice picture for both DVD and HD. Using HDNet test patterns to adjust HD only color resulted in unsatisfactory color in HD, I would describe it as oversaturation, so I went back to the DVD transferred settings.

For those of you who use STV through DVD only, do the adjustments transfer well to your other input sources (such as my Moto 6412)? Or must you tweak from each source to achieve decent results on each source?

Your best bet is to calibrate each input separately, and if possible, by resolution. The problem with that is that there are very few people who can get reliable test patterns for every type of gear they have. That's where an Accupel really comes in handy. Of course, that's $1400, so it's a bit pricey for the DIYer. The next best thing is probably to use a PC via DVI for digital inputs, in addition to a DVD player (upscaling or not) for component. I wish that the powers-that-be would validate which upscaling DVD players properly convert the color information from SD to HD when they convert. However, such a list does not exist in so far as I know.

Later,
Bill

Hey Bill. When you say use a PC via DVI for digital inputs, what source for test patterns would one use, a pc dvd drive running a test disc, or should one download test patterns & run directly from the pc?

thanks again.
Carmine.

Carmine - you can either use a DVD-based test disc (be sure to use VMR9 and validate those colors before running measurements), or hack some of your own test patterns in MS Paint and use the slideshow viewer in WinXP to calibrate from (what I do; set the resolution of the bitmap to your display's native res and use the bucket fill tool to your heart's content).

To validate colors, I have had good luck with ColorCop from www.datastic.com

Later,
Bill

Sorry to sound stupid Bill, but what is VMR9?

thanks so much.
Carmine

Video Mixer/Renderer (DirectX9). It is an option that you should enable when using a PC-based DVD player such as TheaterTek. It is probably not available on many of the older programs that come bundled with a DVD drive.

Later,
Bill

I have stared at the screen so much that I can now see the green in the gray scale. My current work around is to adjust for 6500 Color Temp then reduce green until I can no longer see it. Yellows and blond hair are a good place to judge.This would appear to be a reasonable approach. I've gathered that the Spyder colorimeter may drift toward green with age or exposure to humidity. Is yours new or old? Also, someone, and it may have been krasmuzik, referred to yellow being the best color reference as the eye is most sensitive to drifts toward green or red in yellow.

Dan

Just got my Spyder about a month ago. I don't blame the hardware tho. When I first got my CRT RPTV, a friend came over with a handheld Sencore and it also gave readings that were too green. It may be inherent CRT RPTVs? If so, then there could be a software fix, if the offset were constant. If not, then there would have to be a model by model lookup table.

This would appear to be a reasonable approach. I've gathered that the Spyder colorimeter may drift toward green with age or exposure to humidity. Is yours new or old? Also, someone, and it may have been krasmuzik, referred to yellow being the best color reference as the eye is most sensitive to drifts toward green or red in yellow.

Dan
I keep mine in the plastic bag it came with, and also put some of the dessicant packs in there as well.

Hello everyone,

I've been reading through this tread and thought that if I buy a Spyder TV version, I should be able to calibrate both my LCD TV and my Mitsubishi HC900 projector.

So I called my local distributor and asked him to be sure before I buy the product. He told me that the SpyderTV is not able to calibrate the projector (he told me that he called the ColorVision guys in Swiss in order to verify this)!???

To be sure I called a second dealer who told me that front projectors *can* be calibrated by the SpyderTV. So I asked him how this works, and he gave me some ******** answer telling me that it would be connected to the output of the laptop??? How the spyder would read the light-output from the projector on the screen seemed a mistery to this guy...

Both of these dealers where found on the "where to buy" page from the ColorVision website.... So "official" dealers.... sigh...

So now I'm even more confused, does the SpyderTV package contain everything I need to calibrate both my LCD TV and my Mitsubishi HC900 projector? Or will I have to buy something else as well?

Patient as I am :rolleyes: I contacted ColorVision today to ask if the SpyderTV can do front projector calibration. Apparently not, we'll have to wait for the PyderTV pro. Hardware will be the same, software will be different. Too bad, I was looking forward to getting a SpyderTV :cool:

I finally bit the bullet and picked up a SpyderTV from MicroCenter. Previously, I had adjusted my Mitsu DLP (WD-52625) using Avia. Using SpyderTV (on both HDMI from an LG upconverting DVD player and component using a MyHD 120 HD card in my HTPC), the color and tint setting came out very similar to before, but both the white level and black level came out quite a bit higher. Anyone have similar results or comments? I'm no expert in doing this, so maybe I did poorly the first time around. It was just a little surprising to me.

Anyway, the results look good to my (untrained) eye.

Also, does anyone have any tips for individual color adjustments (red, green, blue, yellow, cyan, magenta) to really tweak things in? This set is kind of notorious for its green push. I've just tweaked it by eyeball.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Also, does anyone have any tips for individual color adjustments (red, green, blue, yellow, cyan, magenta) to really tweak things in? This set is kind of notorious for its green push. I've just tweaked it by eyeball.
Depending upon what controls you have, you may either want to go for a grayscale calibration. Read my calibration guide to see whether it makes sense to you. If so, then you have passed the initial barrier. If not, then you may want to play around with some of the additional patterns in Scott's disc. However, having individual primary/secondary controls is very rare, and there aren't too many test patterns out there to let you dial those in manually without instrumentation.

Later,
Bill

Does the /support option expect the filter to be installed? If so, is there another option to run without it?

Does the /support option expect the filter to be installed? If so, is there another option to run without it?
All of the new software expects the filter to be on, AFAIK. There is no special option if you don't want to use it.

I have tweaked the display using combinations of AVIA, DVE, UMR's tweaks and HDNet test patterns, via UM and SM adjustments. Been lots of fun, but I have developed a "it's still not quite right syndrome". I have only eyeballed greyscale and have my doubts about how good my "eye" is.


I did some grayscale touch-ups via UMR on my GWIV also. I did use a #18 grayscale card, as a reference. I did the adjustments with only ambient light (sunlight) in the room. Using a 6500K source should also work. The card helps keep your eye 'trained' if you will, when eyeballing the ramp pattern.
I think the 'it's still not right' syndrome is normal. I have 1600+ hours on my lamp and wondering how much of a factor that is playing. Right now, I'm not very thrilled with Pro settings. The picture looks more dull until I switch to Standard, and use the same user settings for picture, brightness, etc. etc. , and then it's like a veil has been lifted.
I had Sony send me out another lamp under warranty.. you can email me about that...anyway, I plan to try it soon and see what kind of difference it makes, if any.
UMR does talk about the effect of degradation as the lamp ages. I am using an ND filter too, so that could have an effect also.

FYI - official reply I received today from Colorvision regarding using the spyderpro software for use with the spyderTV:

"Unfortunately the method in which the two colorimeters are calibrated
differs, thus the hardware for Spyder2 does not support the SpyderTV
software or vice versa. We are currently developing a method in which
one colorimeter will support all software; however no release date has
been given. Thank You,
Bob
ColorVision Customer Support
800-554-8688 phone
609-895-7430 phone
609-895-7447 fax
customerservice@colorvision.com
http://www.colorvision.com"

Yes, that is the official policy. Others who have tried it seem to have had good luck using the STV and the S2PRO upgrade.

Yes, that is the official policy. Others who have tried it seem to have had good luck using the STV and the S2PRO upgrade.

Whe have test this point a little with some Spyder Sensors.
It looks like, the STV Sensor will work with Spyder2Pro- Software but the S2P- Sensor will not work with the STV- Software .

Regards Damdy

FYI - official reply I received today from Colorvision regarding using the spyderpro software for use with the spyderTV:

"Unfortunately the method in which the two colorimeters are calibrated
differs, thus the hardware for Spyder2 does not support the SpyderTV
software or vice versa. We are currently developing a method in which
one colorimeter will support all software; however no release date has
been given. Thank You,
Bob
ColorVision Customer Support
800-554-8688 phone
609-895-7430 phone
609-895-7447 fax
customerservice@colorvision.com
http://www.colorvision.com"


Geez! Just when I think I've got this product line figured out something like this comes along. What's got me confused now is the "vice versa" part. I think we understood that you couldn't use the Spyder2 Pro hardware with SpyderTV software but that the other way around was ok, hence the "upgrade kit". Why would you sell an upgrade kit if it didn't work? Is this something that they have just uncovered? It also makes me wonder if there might be some confusion amongst the folks at colorvision about this? I really wish they would come up with a different naming scheme for their products. They are all too similar and certainly causes confusion in the market place. GMB has this problem too with all their eye1 iterations but I tend to give them a little more slack because of the language difference.

Read Mark Hunter's post earlier in this thread. You canuse the STV hardware with the S2PRO software. However, no official upgrade path is sanctioned. So, the CSRs follow the official story, but we know otherwise. No harm, no foul. CSRs following the party line is nothing new, and the Colorvision folks are much better than, say the ones at D* with which I have dealt.

I think I may be able to answer my own question. The software upgrade product description (http://www.colorvision.com/products_s2upgrade.shtml) indicates this is for the Spyder2 hardware, not the SpyderTV colorimeter. Initially I think there was some belief that the colorimeters sold with the different packages were the same. So even though there is some anecdotal evidence that it can work there may truly be some difference between the two hardware versions currently being sold. Interesting and frustrating at the same time. Perhaps the sensor calibration differences that Bob from Colorvision alluded to could account for some users dissatisfaction with the results after a Spyder based video calibration (if the right combination of hardware and software is not used).

URSA,

I just noticed you posted under me last night. I think this is the Mark Hunter post you are referring to:

I can't write much, as I just got back from vacation, but to clarify the sensor "lineage":

Spyder1 is the 'older' stuff. The sexier looking Spyder2 is a big improvement in overall accuracy, low light level performance, speed, etc.. You definitely want to be in the Spyder2 'family'.
A couple of Spyder2 products shipped ("PRO" AND early SpyderTV Beta units) before SpyderTV was released. However, we discovered some things during development of STV that benefitted the HT space (it doesn't affect the digital imaging side much at all). This "universal Spyder" (what URSA is calling the "latest and greatest") will be the future hardware for *all* of the Spyder2 line. So, yes, there ARE two sub-versions of the Spyder2, but it is really only important to know that for the Home Theater space.
I believe that the PRO software will work fine with the hardware from SpyderTV, but the SpyderTV software will NOT work with the hardware from PRO.

Make sense?

The summary is that the hardware in SpyderTV will be the hardware in ALL of the products moving forward, and will be the "baseline" hardware that allows the software packages to be upgraded from the digital imaging-->home theater divide in the future.


This does help to re-clarify but I am still a little concerned since this info is 6 months old and there have been some changes in their product line-up during that time period.

Tekdredger

This does help to re-clarify but I am still a little concerned since this info is 6 months old and there have been some changes in their product line-up during that time period.

Tekdredger
The only changes to the product line in the last eight months:
The SpyderTV was released with the above referenced improved Spyder2 hardware.
The Spyder2PRO Studio version 2 was released that also contained the improved sensor.
ColorFacts 6.0 was released that is now bundled with the improved Spyder2, and no longer ships with GretagMacbeth (GMB) hardware.

This is not really that fast moving of a market (note how long this thread has been active), so there really has not been a lot of changes that haven't been pretty thoroughly hashed to death in this thread previously. There is a SpyderTV Professional that is due out in the near future, but someone (me, someone else) will start a new thread once that product ships.

Hope that helps!

Later,
Bill

Whe have test this point a little with some Spyder Sensors.
It looks like, the STV Sensor will work with Spyder2Pro- Software but the S2P- Sensor will not work with the STV- Software .

Regards Damdy


This thread (through no one's fault) has been the most confusing I have ever read.

But anyway, I have been following (trying to follow) it because I have a new Sony 51A and the Spyder2ProStudio that I use in calibrating monitors in my Mac consulting work.

So here is the final final. There are 3 sensors all named in a similar fashion. They all look the same (or close to the same) and yet there are 3 levels of accuracy. I would venture that they are all exactly the same internally and that during testing they are then categorized into the 3 types. This is a routine technique for a variety of types of product.

So I would think they would all work *if* the software will recognize the sensor but the lower cost units will not be as accurate as you would want for the more stringent application of home theater calibration. I would asume that the software is set to only link up to the higher accuracy units and to ignore the lower level product.

Here is the page which gives a sensible overview of the product line

http://www.colorvision.com/profis/profis_view.jsp?id=341

I bought the Spyder2ProStudio the very first week it came out and yet I have the latest hardware version as quoted in prior messages in this thread. So I think the idea that there was a "revision" to the hardware is perhaps just their way of explaining how they came up with the different levels of product and why their software "likes" one sensor and not another.

I hope the above helps.

M./

something tells me your still just as confused as many of us.... I don't think your explanation holds water.... :eek:

:cool:

I understand people's skepticism about whether there really IS any difference (I share it to some extent, but having tested the two relevant Spyder2 sensors back-to-back, I have seen a difference in accuracy). What I don't understand is how this is confusing at this stage of the thread unless folks are taking a random sample of posts to read. Is my writing really that unclear, or are people really bothered that Colorvision, for whatever reason, has multiple products that can get the job done?

I'm at a loss folks as to how to make this more clear. I will also make the observation that we know that there is an additional product coming out soon that addresses this market, so the folks who don't understand it now may get even more confused!

wyattsdad - No offense, but that link is not relevant for Home Theater use. You linked to a page showing a comparison of the various Spyder2 packages for calibrating monitors, and while the similarities are there, you need to drive your HT display via a graphics card on a PC to get anything from either the S2Express or the S2Base packages. Colorvision currently has three products that are relevant for home theater use: SpyderTV, Spyder2PRO Studio, and ColorFacts. The advantages and disadvantages of each of the first two have been hashed and rehashed. ColorFacts is way beyond the scope of this thread.

Jim - Agreed. But I'm sorry you still feel confused. (I understand completely being disappointed given your purchase timing!)

Later,
Bill

Is my writing really that unclear

No, I think definitely not. For me it is pretty clear. I think the most confusion comes from the official and inofficial using from SpyderTV and Spyder2ProStudio.

The default Mainfeatures that seen from Colorvision for this Products are now, by reading only the xyY- Values out and put it in some Excelsheet, additional Features "on Top" without real needing for us when we only want Calibrate a PJ.
The inofficial ore small Features like Support Mode by SpyderTV, or Colorimeter by Spyder2ProStudio, are now the real Mainfeatures for us.

Regards Damdy

"Jim - Agreed. But I'm sorry you still feel confused. (I understand completely being disappointed given your purchase timing!)"

much of what has me confused at this point is that I've done a few quick and dirty tests on my laptop using the Spyder2 (ver 3c/3c) and it's software and came up with a distinctly "blue" calibration... and I tried the Spyder2 with my Spyder's software (Colorfacts) and using the colorimeter tool I get distinctly different results between the Spyder and Spyder2, NOT within the margins of error... also confusing is the lack of a hardware upgrade path, other than buying a new package...

:confused:

"Jim - Agreed. But I'm sorry you still feel confused. (I understand completely being disappointed given your purchase timing!)"

much of what has me confused at this point is that I've done a few quick and dirty tests on my laptop using the Spyder2 (ver 3c/3c) and it's software and came up with a distinctly "blue" calibration... and I tried the Spyder2 with my Spyder's software (Colorfacts) and using the colorimeter tool I get distinctly different results between the Spyder and Spyder2, NOT within the margins of error... also confusing is the lack of a hardware upgrade path, other than buying a new package...

:confused:

Accuracy has never been a great virtue of these types of sensors. I would add an EyeOne Pro to your arsenal if you want accuracy.

I understand people's skepticism about whether there really IS any difference (I share it to some extent, but having tested the two relevant Spyder2 sensors back-to-back,

wyattsdad - No offense, but that link is not relevant for Home Theater use. You linked to a page showing a comparison of the various Spyder2 packages for calibrating monitors, and while the similarities are there,
Later,
Bill

I guess I for forgot to tell you to scroll to the bottom of ther page where they have their table clearly showing that the Spyder2ProStudio unit I referenced will work for front projector cal and that it holds the highest accuracy. Since I bought my unit before the supposed "new model or version" and yet mine has the latest hardware designation it supports my contention. If you keep referrring to "Spyder2" devices you will only add to the confusion as there are 3+ differently capable devices all with that product name.

The technique of making a large quantity of the same product and then designating different models based on how they perform is used in any number of industries. That's how they come up with different speed CPU chips in the same family. It was first used (to my knowledge) by Rega with the RB300 tonearm back in the late 80s. It allows you to get the economies of scale from the one model and yet have different price points. The home video/theater market is far less sophisticated than the graphics arts market (enthusiasts vs. professionals who make their living knowing which color is accurate) and ColorVision is trying to get the most bang for their buck using one device design. Initially I don't even think they were selling the Spyder2 sensors themselves as I bought mine from Pantone.

You will be making a big mistake if you calibrate any display device using an input source other than the one that will be used for viewing. If you are going to use a PC to show your image then use it to input your calibration data. But since it is a reproduction chain you must use your DVD player to input the data if you are planning to use it to watch your movies. There are often errors in the software in the DVD players that you often end up compensating for on the end of the chain using calibration.

I have been calibrating projectors/monitors since 1983 and was a consultant to LightSource for their Colortron (mid 90s) which was the first software based calibration tool. All of the current units (in fact the entire industry at this point) is based on the paradigm introduced with that device (software based vs. hardware based).

If someone feels my contention is faulty is makes better use of the Internet to point out how/why rather than just make an unsupported blanket claim. But it could all boil down to the fact that the AV market is just worried about the 2 lower end units and not aware of the Studio designated product. What I am trying to point out is that there is a sub $300 package you can use with a 3rd party disc that will calibrate with very high accuracy and you don't have to wait months for a $600+ package with a wizard in it.

I will be obtaining a GetGrey cal disc, putting it through my intended source player through my intended projector input and using the Spyder2ProStudio unit I know I will get a decent low cost calibration.

Best of luck,

M./

If someone feels my contention is faulty is makes better use of the Internet to point out how/why rather than just make an unsupported blanket claim.

Please click here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6067478&&#post6067478 and note the posting date.

But it could all boil down to the fact that the AV market is just worried about the 2 lower end units and not aware of the Studio designated product. What I am trying to point out is that there is a sub $300 package you can use with a 3rd party disc that will calibrate with very high accuracy and you don't have to wait months for a $600+ package with a wizard in it.

Please note: I have been very consistent in this thread that the cheaper alternatives to the STV and S2PRO are irrelevant for HT use.

I will be obtaining a GetGrey cal disc, putting it through my intended source player through my intended projector input and using the Spyder2ProStudio unit I know I will get a decent low cost calibration.
Please be sure not to skip the credits.


People new to the thread: Please read the first three posts in this thread before positng if you haven't done so already.

Ursa,

Maybe a short summary/recommendation on the first page of the different packages might help.
Maybe from a source/display perspective.

E.g.

stb dvdplayer + lcd tv -> spydertv
htpc + lcd projector -> spydertv or s2pro + AVIA
stb dvdplayer + lcd tv + htpc + dlp projector -> spydertv + upgrade to s2pro

or something similar.

Fair enough. I just don't think anyone reads the first posts anymore. :(

Isn't it a forum rule to read all the previous posts before posting?

So I'm thinking of going the SpyderTV + S2Pro Upgrade route... but for the life of me I can't find a source for the upgrade, and there is no option to buy it direct from the website now! Gah! Then I'm also considering getting one of the printer calibration devices - and was going to go for the basic one, but that is no longer appearing on the colorvision website.

Isn't it a forum rule to read all the previous posts before posting?

Shame on you, it looks you did not do that, or you did it too fast and when right by it.....;)

So I'm thinking of going the SpyderTV + S2Pro Upgrade route... but for the life of me I can't find a source for the upgrade, and there is no option to buy it direct from the website now!


Yeah there is, and it's still listed on post #173

But here it is again. And it looks to still work, as you still can put it in a shopping cart.

http://www.colorvision.com/profis/profis_view.jsp?id=442

But my concern is that they have removed regular access to that link - try finding that using links from their homepage. Just because you can put it in the shopping cart doens't mean you won't get a message later saying that product is not available - Speaking to a local retailer of their products, it seems that they have dropped a few products in the last couple of weeks (like the old Printfix printer calibrator)

Looking at the math, I think that if you also want to profile your printer, then there is no difference between buying the print fix pro suite, and the spyder TV package, and ending up with two colorimeters, versus buying the spyder TV package, the pro software upgrade, and the print fix pro.

But my concern is that they have removed regular access to that link - try finding that using links from their homepage. .

You could not get to it from their home page when I originally posted that link either. Which is also why I posted it even back then. Yet I still put it in my cart back then and actually bought it that way using that same link. As did a few others here by using that exact same link after I posted that was how I bought mine. Did you even try to actually buy it yet using that link? If you did not, then don't say it won't work.

You asked how to find it, and I showed you how you can probably get it, if you try. And now you are questioning it.
I guess some people are just never happy with answers they get that may help them........

The local dealer told me that the colormeter bundled with Spyder2, SpyderTV and Spyder2 Pro are the same. So SpyderTV user can upgrade to S2Pro by software only.

The local dealer told me that the colormeter bundled with Spyder2, SpyderTV and Spyder2 Pro are the same. So SpyderTV user can upgrade to S2Pro by software only.

Only if the app doesn't check for which head is being used.

I believe that the upgrade software to S2Pro may be different from the original one. The upgrade one should be allowed to use with STV sensor.

Just read from page 173 on! The S2Pro software does indeed work just fine with the SpyderTV sensor/colormeter.

Just read from page 173 on! The S2Pro software does indeed work just fine with the SpyderTV sensor/colormeter.

The upgrade to Spyder2PRO does indeed work with the SpyderTV sensor. I used it tonight - cheers.

Mark

Wow! I'm dizzy from this thread and the S2Pro thread. But I've decided to purchase the Spyder2Pro Studio 2.0 for the following reasons:
1. The STV and S2Pro Studio 2.0 are the same price (at least they are now on that auction site, each for less than two c-notes plus shipping)
2. The STV "wizard" SW seems to give some people poor results, so the real reason we buy these devices is to get xyY, and go from there. Sounds like the S2Pro SW makes it easier to get these values. Also, I don't really need another patterns DVD, already have AVIA, DVE, and GetGray.
3. Don't have to pay $89 or $99 for the S2Pro SW upgrade
4. The Spyder2PRO Studio version (GPU128,$299MSRP) indicates it comes with the free tripod adapter, the non-Studio version (S2P100,$279MSRP) does not.
5. The other junk that comes with the Studio version may prove useful (nik Color Efex Pro, ColorVision DoctorPRO, Pantone Colorist). Though the non-studio version comes with ColorVision PrintFIX SW which also might be useful.
6. Maybe wyattsdad is correct and the S2Pro colorimeter is better :D I'll be using it to calibrate a plasma monitor. Flawed logic?

I'll be using it to calibrate a plasma monitor. Flawed logic?
Not really; not if the pricing is that close.

Ursa,

I have a CRT FP. What is the best way to use the SpyderTV to calibrate it? Has there been any word on an upgrade to SpyderTV PRO?

Bill - Take a gander in both the HTPC and CRT forums (aka Search) for the threads that Charles Black (eponymous AVS UserID) and Brian Hampton (ditto) have done with the Spyder2 (realistically, just search on "spyder" and see what you get). They have covered this in much greater detail than I can here.

Later,
Bill

Anyone know the latest on when the stv pro (that they showed at CES) will be available?

In calibrating a plasma monitor, should the colorimeter LCD filter be on or off? My Spyder2Pro Studio colorimeter is sw 4CL/hw 3CL. (By LCD filter, I mean the physically removable front part of the colorimeter).

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, could not find the answer with a brief search.

Leave the filter on at all times for all displays with the new SW/HW.

Any more news on the SpyderTV Pro ?

Supposely Spyder2Pro ver 2.2 just launch on 20 March 2006. But I'm not sure if this is just a mere software upgrade or there is changes to the hardware too. Go to their website and you should see ship in 20 March 2006. I'm thinking of getting this latest versionof Spyder2Pro as it already had built in Colorimeter tools and continuous xyY reading which should ease the adjustment of Greyscale.

downloading it right now to see what it's all about! thanks for the heads up!!!

where did you down load from. I am still seeing version 2.1 as the lastest on the colorvision site.

thanks

I saw a review that Spyder2Pro ver 2.2 will launch on 20 march 2006. If you check their website, there also mention the new Spyder2Pro will be available on this date and according to the review site (forgot where I read this) that the new version is ver 2.2.

I was doing a web search and noticed that pcconnection, had the SpyderTV Pro on their web site. Under estimated ship it says 2+ weeks.

I am sure that pcconnection is jumping the gun a little, but I think that it is a good sign.

Check it out.

http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?sku=6341501&SourceID=k40132

ok here is 1 better!!!!! in stock?????

http://www.datavis.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=460787&prmenbr=2000

Ohhhhh Pricey. Or maybe I'm just not the customer demographics they have in mind :p

Or maybe me and my buddies can share the cost and do all our TV's ;)

It's cheap compared to the other options, such as Colorfacts. This price point has brought accurate grey scale calibration to the enthusiast IMHO.

Gary.

Think of it as getting in an ISF guy twice...cost is relative. If you are someone with enough displays or that frequently calibrates as an anal videophile - and wants to learn calibration to maybe do other displays - then SpyderTV PRO is cost effective. If you just want your TV tuned in an afternoon and be done with it - the ISF guy is more cost effective.

I get your point. For guys that spent 15-30K or more on a "real" Home Theater, what's another $600.

I have a one week old Hitachi 65" RP CRT in a mid-size "mediaroom" and a 4 year old 36" HD RCA..............I guess I'm a DVE kind of guy.

But I did read this whole thread and I'm looking forward to the user reviews about the SpyderTV PRO...............You never know ;)

Think of it as getting in an ISF guy twice....
Depending upon the set you have, and how far the ISF guy has to travel to get to you. And with what some of them charge, then the equivalent cost of the SpyderTVpro may only be enough to get him there 1 1/2 times.

If you just want your TV tuned in an afternoon and be done with it - the ISF guy is more cost effective.

Aye there's the rub ... are we ever "just done with it." And god forbid the display should up and die a couple of months after the ISF visit. ;) :D

PS: I'm liking the price points on spyderTV pro ...

Hi,

I thought I would add my two cents on the whole SpyderTV, Pro discussion. I bought Spyder2Pro Studio on Ebay thinking it's the 2.0 ver. However it turned out to be 1.0.5 version (from Jan 2005) GPU 128 3Cl/3Cl. I called ColorVision support and asked to talk to someone who knows all the releases:

Q: Is my sensor 3Cl/3Cl inferior in some way compared to ver 2.0?

A: No, you have the latest ver. of hardware. If you download the 2.0 software upgrade your sensor will be upgraded to 4Cl/3Cl.

Q: So my hardware is the same as the new hardware, there is no added sensitivity etc.?
A: Correct

Q: I read that the Studio has added accuracy compared to the other in the line. Do you hand select it for Studio?

A: All hardware in Spyder2 is the same, however our Studio product may receive little "extra attention..." ( I read it as "we are more picky")

Q: So I should be future proof?

A: Yes.

Hope this helps!

Mike

The only issue in buying the "old stock" PRO sensors is that you have no control over whether or not you got the latest sensor. I think that advice stands, but I'm glad it worked for you.

Later,
Bill

Aye there's the rub ... are we ever "just done with it." And god forbid the display should up and die a couple of months after the ISF visit. ;) :D

PS: I'm liking the price points on spyderTV pro ...

It is good customer service to warrant results - personally I am free for redos within a year, discounted after that for the annual "I think it drifted come back and make it perfect again" videophile. I cannot speak for other techs. It is my personal philosophy not to milk old customers - but make sure they stay happy. Also many that get started in calibration - did so by having an ISF tech in first - cheaper than an ISF seminar - but ultimately anyone expanding beyond DIY had best be prepared to spend serious money.

Hi,


Q: I read that the Studio has added accuracy compared to the other in the line. Do you hand select it for Studio?

A: All hardware in Spyder2 is the same, however our Studio product may receive little "extra attention..." ( I read it as "we are more picky")

Mike

This is something I would like to see DataColor clarify. If you examine the Spyder2 patent you see it's firmware is loaded with calibration tables to improve accuracy for the sensors filters - and obviously filters can have some manufacturing variance. It would make sense if the higher priced calibration packages had their Spyder2 in the lab up against the references for some hand tuning. I know my lab prototype Spyder2 is as good as some more expensive references - but obviously it spent some time in the lab. :D

anyone expanding beyond DIY had best be prepared to spend serious money.
That's the truth! I'm still in the DIY category, but I'd really like to calibrate my HD Component inputs. The easiest way? Buy an Accupel, at >$1k. :eek:

Yes the Accupel is much more trustworthy than a PVR recording of HDnet test pattern! I would say the percentage of ISFers that started as DIY and decided to go PRO just to justify their gear purchases for WAF is very very high.

I want to use the spyder2pro studio to help calibrate my hitachi crt rptv.Do I take the filter off the colormeter?Thanks

I want to use the spyder2pro studio to help calibrate my hitachi crt rptv.Do I take the filter off the colormeter?Thanks
Think X-Files. :)

Okay...reading the manual did help!...lol

I am brain dead. Please help....

This is what I have.
1. Sony 34XBR910 Direct View CRT HDTV. I calibrated this long back using this thread by NTN1
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=295646&highlight=34XBR910
I used DVE/AVIA for calibration and did service menu adjustments. I used the component inputs for running DVE/AVIA throgh a progressive scan DVD player. Obviously, I do not think I could get the 65K correct just by eyeballing it and the same can be said for contrast. I also always noticed that the DVI port has less color saturation and contrast than the components on my TV. The whole calibration was done almost 1 1/2 years back and user menu was left untouched

I have since added a HTPC in the setup which I now primarily use for viewing DVDs using TheaterTek 2 and/or MCE 2005.

Here are all the connections:
1. HTPC is connected to DVI
2. Motorla DCT-6412 cable box is connected to component
3. DVD Player connected to component

I now need to (re)calibrate all of below..
1. The above setup as described - Primary Use: SDTV/HDTV/DVD viewing
2. My Dell 2405FPW (24" widescreen LCD) connected to another PC downstairs in the basement. - never calibrated before. Primary use: image and Video editing.
3. 2 Toshiba Laptops - never calibrated before. Primary Use- Net surfing and Work (that pays my biills :))

I am thoroughlu confused as to what packages to get.
What would be the most cost effetive way to get this done? Should I buy SpyderTV or Spyder2PRO or both?

Can anybody please outline the basic steps and sequences to calibrate the complete setup of TV+LCD Monitors+HTPC?

This time I would like to use user menu (brightness+contrast+saturation+tint)as much as possible because it is such a PITA to deal with Service menu and I would love to leave it all to the Spyder Software (I don't mind using ICC/ICM profiles as long as I achieve proper calibration for Video etc.).

I am looking to run a process which is as automtica as possible with little manual intervention.

Thanks for reading and helping me.

Get the STV if you are wanting to be guideed as much as possible through the calibration. Get the S2PRO software upgrade and Derek Smith's utility when you want to go into the service menu. Your total out of pocket costs should be under $300 if you are diligent in shopping.

Later,
Bill

Get the STV if you are wanting to be guideed as much as possible through the calibration. Get the S2PRO software upgrade and Derek Smith's utility when you want to go into the service menu. Your total out of pocket costs should be under $300 if you are diligent in shopping.

Later,
Bill

Bill,
Thanks a lot.

If I buy Spyder TV from other internet retailers, can I still buy the pro upgrade using this link
http://www.colorvision.com/profis/profis_view.jsp?id=442
and use it? Will it allow to install Spyder2Pro from Spyder2TV? Or does it require Spyder2 software as base version (which I would not have if I am buying STV)

Does this one come with Latest and greatest Hardware and software or is this earlier version?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YX96O/ref=nosim/002-9534856-5180059?n=172282

Also, is there a simple guide somewhere as to what exactly I need to asjust in my TV after I get the xy data? It does not need to be specific to my TV but I have no clue what I need to do after I get the xy data. What is the xy value corresponding to 65K greyscale? Previously, when I adjusted Greyscale, I remember adjusting the Green and Blue channel CUT and DRIVE parameters in the service menu.

Also, do I need to adjust to 65K for all the IRE? (e.g. 10IRE through 100IRE in steps of 10?) Hw does one make sure adjusting in one IRE level does not affect the other IRE levels, after all you would be adjusting the same parameters, correct?) Sorry for being such a n00b

Bill,
Thanks a lot.

If I buy Spyder TV from other internet retailers, can I still buy the pro upgrade using this link
http://www.colorvision.com/profis/profis_view.jsp?id=442
and use it? Will it allow to install Spyder2Pro from Spyder2TV? Or does it require Spyder2 software as base version (which I would not have if I am buying STV)
Many users here have reported success "upgrading" from the STV to the S2PRO using the software upgrade.

Does this one come with Latest and greatest Hardware and software or is this earlier version?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YX96O/ref=nosim/002-9534856-5180059?n=172282
Yep, the STV comes with the latest and greatest, guaranteed by Mark Hunter himself.

Also, is there a simple guide somewhere as to what exactly I need to asjust in my TV after I get the xy data? It does not need to be specific to my TV but I have no clue what I need to do after I get the xy data. What is the xy value corresponding to 65K greyscale? Previously, when I adjusted Greyscale, I remember adjusting the Green and Blue channel CUT and DRIVE parameters in the service menu.

Also, do I need to adjust to 65K for all the IRE? (e.g. 10IRE through 100IRE in steps of 10?) Hw does one make sure adjusting in one IRE level does not affect the other IRE levels, after all you would be adjusting the same parameters, correct?) Sorry for being such a n00b
See if my "calibration guide" (link in signature) helps. If so, then you know what you need to do. If not, then that's probably worthy of a thread unto itself.

Later,
Bill

Many users here have reported success "upgrading" from the STV to the S2PRO using the software upgrade.


Yep, the STV comes with the latest and greatest, guaranteed by Mark Hunter himself.


See if my "calibration guide" (link in signature) helps. If so, then you know what you need to do. If not, then that's probably worthy of a thread unto itself.

Later,
Bill
Bill,
Thanks a ton.
One last question..When connected through DVI my Dell 2405FPW monitor does not let you adjust anything except brightness using OSD front controls. So, my only option would be (i know you do not like it) to use the Pro software to generate a profile..correct? The only other option (for video) would be to use the software DVD player control. Do you think that is correct? Or I missing something?

Bill,
Thanks a ton.
One last question..When connected through DVI my Dell 2405FPW monitor does not let you adjust anything except brightness using OSD front controls. So, my only option would be (i know you do not like it) to use the Pro software to generate a profile..correct? The only other option (for video) would be to use the software DVD player control. Do you think that is correct? Or I missing something?
There may be a service menu available, as well, but you are basically screwed with most PC-oriented LCD displays. As a result, a profile is about your only way to go.

GGet the S2PRO software upgrade and Derek Smith's utility when you want to go into the service menu.
Bill, Please check your PM.

where did you down load from. I am still seeing version 2.1 as the lastest on the colorvision site.

thanks

http://support.colorvision.ch/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=4&nav=0,1,3

http://support.colorvision.ch/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=7&nav=0,2,5

Anybody have some idea what this download is/does?

http://support.colorvision.ch/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=view&parentcategoryid=2&pcid=0&nav=0

http://support.colorvision.ch/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=7&nav=0,2

I would like to know as well. I would also be interested in hearing why these updates have not been made to the U.S. site.

Mark

I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to this question so I'll ask here:

I have a Toshiba 62HM195 Rear Projection DLP. Would I be able to use any of Spyder products to help calibrate this TV?

Would I be able to use any of Spyder products to help calibrate this TV?
Any? no. One or two? yes. I'll leave it to you to figure out which those are. :)

they are mentioned in the first three posts...

Later,
Bill

Hi Guys. I just found out the link to download Spyder2Pro ver 2.2. Just fresh out of the oven.

http://support.colorvision.ch/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=4

Before dowloading it can anyone tell me what this does...currently have pro studio and 2.0...thanks...find it curious that only the european site has this update?

I ordered SpyderTv from Amazon on Saturday and its shipped out yesterday. Saturday I also ordered the Spyder2 pro upgrade from DataColor and no news of shipping yet (got a order confirmation email though). Fro those who ordered the pro upgrade, typically, how long does it take to receive the order? Sorry, but I am impatient as I need to calibrate my Dell 2405FPW for a project soon and need to get a hand on the pro upgrade :)

My Spyder2Pro upgrade was shipped by UPS and took less than a week from order placement to delivery. They emailed me a tracking number when it shipped.

I will be upgrading from SpyderTV to Spyder 2.0 Pro. DO I have to first install SpyderTV and then install the Pro upgrade? Or Can I just intall the Pro Upgrade alone?

I will be upgrading from SpyderTV to Spyder 2.0 Pro. DO I have to first install SpyderTV and then install the Pro upgrade? Or Can I just intall the Pro Upgrade alone?
No you can install it alone, they are really two entirely separate products from each other, and only the sensors are the common factor.
But why not just install both? You never know, you may want to use the SpyderTV on a simple normal TV calibration at some time.

No you can install it alone, they are really two entirely separate products from each other, and only the sensors are the common factor.
But why not just install both? You never know, you may want to use the SpyderTV on a simple normal TV calibration at some time.

I typically have both installed.

Mark

Can someone who downloaded the 2.2 software update for spyder2pro tell me what are the differences from the 2.0 version and do I need to un install the 2.0 in order to download the 2.2....have spyder2pro studio...thanks

First attempt to calibrate using the SpyderTV Wizard. I previously calibrated using AVIA/DVE and service menu.

ok here is 1 better!!!!! in stock?????

http://www.datavis.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=460787&prmenbr=2000

Interesting that this product (spydertv pro) is not even yet listed on the stv website. Is this really available? I sent a note to them but have not heard back... SJ

Looks like the link no longer works....

Interesting that this product (spydertv pro) is not even yet listed on the stv website. Is this really available? I sent a note to them but have not heard back... SJ

Looks like the link no longer works....
Nope, it is not available yet. I asked them when the links got posted. I've just been a little too busy to post their answer. :o

Later,
Bill

Interesting that this product (spydertv pro) is not even yet listed on the stv website. Is this really available? I sent a note to them but have not heard back... SJ

Looks like the link no longer works....


I was told by Colorvision that the SpyderTV Pro (STV200) would be available in mid-May with a MSRP of $450-500.

Hopefully there will be an upgrade path for those of us that bought the SpyderTV!
Paul

Hopefully there will be an upgrade path for those of us that bought the SpyderTV!
Paul
Colorvision also said that the only difference is the software and that there will be an upgrade path which will be the retail price difference between the SpyderTV (STV100) and SpyderTV Pro (STV200). So, you'll probably be looking at around a +/-$250 upgrade cost. They assured me that the hardware is identical.

Excellent news davige, many thanks.
Paul

What exactly is new in SpyderTV Pro?

You gotta like the new pricing:
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4076002&JRSource=nsa&nsa=1
http://www.academicsuperstore.com/market/marketdisp.html?PartNo=748006

Hopefully these don't get pulled, too.

Later,
Bill

What exactly is new in SpyderTV Pro?

It looks like they finally added support or FP crts. I am hoping to check it out tonight after the children go to sleep.

confused by both sides MSRPs.

JR says $449, but academics says $699.

by the answer from DataColor, the upgrade deal is not finalized yet, but probably the difference between norm SpyderTv and SpyderTV Pro. :( they should give current user an attractive deal! :)
assume both have same colorimeter, right? :confused:

BTW, anyone can tell me which one is correct?
I am confused by color temp definitions.:confused:
b/c different makers use different name for color temp, not sure which one is correct?

warm = high = 9500k?
or warm = low = 9500k?
or warm = high = 5000k?
or warm = low = 5000k?

tks


You gotta like the new pricing:
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4076002&JRSource=nsa&nsa=1
http://www.academicsuperstore.com/market/marketdisp.html?PartNo=748006

Hopefully these don't get pulled, too.

Later,
Bill

It looks like they finally added support or FP crts. I am hoping to check it out tonight after the children go to sleep.
That's all? No greyscale tracking?

confused by both sides MSRPs.

JR says $449, but academics says $699.

See post #645. That seems to imply the JR folks are right. The Academic Superstore MSRP is consistent with the old pricing that we've discussed here before.

I am confused by color temp definitions.:confused:
So are most manufacturers! :)

b/c different makers use different name for color temp, not sure which one is correct?
You really have to measure each choice to see. Of course, the color temperature changes depending upon what you do with the individual primary controls, as well, so it is better to pick your gamma option first, then worry about color temp choices second.

warm = high = 9500k?
or warm = low = 9500k?
or warm = high = 5000k?
or warm = low = 5000k?
Color temperature is described using photographic terminology, so the more "blue" a whitepoint is, the "cooler" it is even though the temperature increases when measured in Kelvin (blue is more energetic than red...). Conversely, redder color temperatures are described as "warmer" even though they are actually physically cooler. So your last choice is the one that is consistent with general usage. (The Japanese television standard uses a 9300K white point, btw).


Later,
Bill

OK, it took me about 2 hours to wade through all 20+ pages in this thread ;) A couple of questions:

1. Can the Spyder 2 Pro calibrate a Plasma? The STV can but I see no mention of the 2Pro with plasmas.

2. Is there any chance of a Mac version coming out of the STV software? I am considering getting the STV and the subsequent 2Pro upgrade to use on my Mac's LCD's but I also have a Mac Mini Core Duo hooked up to my Panasonic 50PHD8UK full time that I would like to use to calibrate. The PC part of the STV is not so much of a problem as I can either bring a PC from my office or run Windows XP on the mini sooner or later.

3. The major question I have is... will the PC only package of the STV hardware function fine with a Mac running the 2Pro software? From what I understand from reading this long thread is that the STV will work with the 2Pro software but the 2Pro hardware won't work with the STV software. This makes little sense to me but I would rather spend a couple bucks more to get the more flexible STV + 2Pro software than be out in the cold with the 2Pro hardware and no way to get the STV software.

Does this all make sense, I am starting to confuse myself here ;)

-Jerry C.

Jerry - the S2PRO does have a Mac version. The hardware is supposed to be universal now with the latest releases, so I do not believe that you should have any troubles with an STV sensor running the Mac version of the S2PRO application.

As for the S2PRO and calibrating a plasma, that is a question to which I do not know the answer.

Later,
Bill

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I wasn't so worried about the S2Pro software working as it is made for the Mac as you pointed out but just worried that the hardware might be platform specific. It seems reasonable that the hardware is in fact identical but I would love to get some confirmation on wether or not S2Pro can calibrate plasmas correctly.

-Jerry C.

Hi Bill,

I was hoping you could help answer a few Q's. I have Spyder Studio 2.0. I want to start calibrating my Optoma H57 but need a bit of help to get started.

1) I will be using Oppo player. Should I get a disk like GetGray (I have DVE) to generate patterns as opposed to using a computer ( I don't have an HTPC). This way my entire chain is calibrated?

2) Can Spyder2Pro be used to calibrate directly facing the pj or does it need to be pointed at the screen.

3) My room is quite bright, would it be beneficial to create a "tent" with dark fabric to eliminate any reflections as they could affect the greyscale?

4) Finally how to best use xyY data. I know you were talking about producing a "commercial" solution for us DIY folks. Is that available? What's the best way to plot the data to get usable results. How low can I go on IRE level to get accurate data and how high ie. 20-100 is that realistic?

If any of these q. seem silly I apologize, but any help would be appreciated!

Mike

I believe you could use raders spreedsheet to plot your readings and then it will do the calculations for you....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=587485

Hi Bill,

I was hoping you could help answer a few Q's. I have Spyder Studio 2.0. I want to start calibrating my Optoma H57 but need a bit of help to get started.

1) I will be using Oppo player. Should I get a disk like GetGray (I have DVE) to generate patterns as opposed to using a computer ( I don't have an HTPC). This way my entire chain is calibrated?
Yes. That or AVIA are the easiest. DVE will work as well.

2) Can Spyder2Pro be used to calibrate directly facing the pj or does it need to be pointed at the screen.
Yes, to both. I use it facing the PJ (not strictly/officially supported yet). You get low light issues if you face the screen.

3) My room is quite bright, would it be beneficial to create a "tent" with dark fabric to eliminate any reflections as they could affect the greyscale?
You can. I just wait until dark.

4) Finally how to best use xyY data. I know you were talking about producing a "commercial" solution for us DIY folks. Is that available? What's the best way to plot the data to get usable results. How low can I go on IRE level to get accurate data and how high ie. 20-100 is that realistic?
See my calibration guide. Rader's spreadsheet is free, but I do not support it (people PM me all the time asking, so I feel the need to get that up-front).

I have the Spydertv and I am trying to adjust the grey scale on my 34xbr910 direct view tv. Is spydertv all I need to get a good greyscale on my tv or do I need to purchase something else? Thanks for any help.

Using the SpyderTV according to it's own instructions will only show you how close you are to the correct color temp at a high level brightness. You must use the support mode of the software as described in this thread, and a spreadsheet to do a complete grayscale calibration. Radar's spreadsheet found here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=587485&page=1&pp=30) works very well. Also reading Bill's calibration guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=618182) is very helpful.

Duke

Before dowloading it can anyone tell me what this does...currently have pro studio and 2.0...thanks...find it curious that only the european site has this update?

From the README file for the Spyder2PRO 2.2

Calibrates projectors
Faster LCD calibration time
Advanced Spyder2 colorimeter instrument
Gray Balanced calibration
Multiple monitor support
Enhanced LCD support
Expanded Help
PreciseLight(tm) ambient light compensation

I purchased one of these and after calibrating two LCD panels (each of different brands), both wound up with obvious "red push". I had to tune it down via my eyeballs which is kind of a letdown after ploping down $175 for this thing. Has anyone else had this problem?
Tech support stated that this is due to the TV manufacturers pushing reds and there is no error with the machine. I guess I figured I was buying this thing to overcome the manufacturer's overt "showroom settings". It really surprises me that this thing cannot tell if RED IS RED if the manufacturer has included a little red push.

Thanks for your input and apologies if this has been ocvered elsewhere...

Technically red push is an error that is not going to be compensated for with user menu controls. In fact, it is something that actually shows up more if you turn down a set from "torch" mode to more normal brightness/contrast levels where the red push is no longer overcompensating for excess blue/green.

If you have red push, then hopefully you can either do a full grayscale calibration and tone down the red, or even better, potentially edit the color decoder itself to eliminate the red push entirely. In either case, the STV can be used in this application, but you will need some additional tools to go with it.

Later,
Bill

Ursa:
How hard is this to use?
I am not a beginner at calibration but some of what you speak about is a little confusing....would it be hard for someone who is in the middle, so to speak, to be able to use this system??spidertv is what i am interested in as i am installing 7 plasmas and 6 lcd tvs so my main use would be home theater.

thank you

ursa,
Allriight, that makes sense. I had originally thought my sensor was defective and waset the going to send it back. It still seems to me that once the brightness is toned down the optical sensor would THEN calibrate for a more normal red, but maybe I don't have a full grasp yet.

I had some thoughts of returning this one to get the PRO (STV200) HOPING that it would reproduce a more "realistic" color. Will it help with this issue at all? Am being unrealistic to expect something like this to be pretty well spot on and produce a great picture once it is finished with calibration without any further "eyeball tweaks"?

ckelly - if you have true red push, then you need a service manual, a spreadsheet and a new thread! :) Note, though, you can really screw up your display trying to eliminate red push (let's hope it is just that your red primary is overly emphasized, rather than a true red push).

deez - start with my calibration guide (link in signature). If you can follow it, then you are good to start doing grayscale. 13 displays, though, is going to take you approximately a full week (56+ hours) to do, unless you are a really fast learner and they are all the same models.

Later,
Bill

hi! all pro's... ;)
want to make shure before making an order.. on the Spyder2PRO

if i want to calibrate my Lcd FP (ae700) connected like:
standalone dvdplayer->ae700

it will work to use the pro2 in combination
with the various spreadsheets thats available to get the gammatracking and grayscale and so on... in order..? right?

+it's also possible to calib other displays..like crt,lcd tv's etc and pc monitors...lcd crt and so on?

sorry if bad english....
is the above right?..or have i missed something?
need confirmation....i'm almost pressing enter on the order now... :)
btw does the pro2 come with the tripod attachment thingy?
regards/Harry

Yes HRC4U, the latest Spyder2PRO comes with a tripod attachment for the colorimeter for use in calibrating a front projector. It can also be used on PC monitors and TVs, with the use os a spreadsheet.

Hi all, I just picked up the Spyder TV and I am unable to use the "/support". My computer is unable to locate the file.
Can someone help?
Thanks

Tamas - Did you follow the instructions in the appendix to my calibration guide?

I did, my computer was adiing an extra C:/"C:/ to the file. I was able to cyt and paste the link from the first page and it worked.
I've just played with it and I am getting similar results to Optical. The picture is way too red. Having said that, I should be using the spreadsheet, right?
By the way I have AVIA.
Thanks, Tom

Yes, you should be using the spreadsheet. Also, be sure to adjust the read time. By "too red", are you sure that it isn't the normal adjustment process to a color temp closer to D65? Most people are used to HIGH (9000K+) color temps. Oh, yeah, depending on your set, there's a possibility of red push...

Later,
Bill

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, red push is a color decoder error, not grayscale error. in other words, you can have D65 for all ire's, but it will look too red, if the color decoder is misaligned.

jeff

Jeff - Assuming a perfectly accurate and precise measurement instrument, any deviation from D65 will be read as such. As a result, if it "looks too red", and your eye is "accurate", then it will show up in the measurements. You can have a bias while being at 6500K, since that is a line, rather than a point, in the color gamut, but D65 is what it is.

I will offer up that if your primaries are significantly far off of the reference standards, then as you move away from the white point, you can start to notice a bias again. After all, the combination of red, green and blue that constitutes white is merely an algebraic mix of where those primaries are located. As the other colors in the mix change, then the "bad" primary will start to show.

Basically, you cannot have red push without being able to measure it, unless your instrument or software is insufficiently robust to handle it. That being said, I do not have practical experience with this particular effect (damn it), but my Optoma does have an overly saturated red primary that presumably works in a similar fashion.

Later,
Bill

Ursa,
You seem to be the most knowledgeable person on the subject matter and I have to admit to being the least. This is also my first post so please, be gentle! I have tried to read through this forum. Although I can be intelligent about the things I know, this apparently isn't going to be one of those things!

I live in a vastly rural area with no calibrators to speak of within at least 3 hours. I've tried Avia, DVE, etc., but I've always tried to achieve a better calibration. I've considered purchasing one of the STV100 or the STV200 units but cannot decide between the two. I have 2 LCD panels (Sharp & Olevia) and will likely get a plasma or Sony RPTV this fall.

Like I said, I have used AVIA and DVE muliple times and have no problems with following those. I'd love to have something like this that is more automated (quicker) and possible more accurate. I have read some of the more recent postings regarding overly saturated reds and the explanations, at least for now, are over my head. With 5 kids I doubt I will have the time to learn the application of spreadsheets, etc. Also do neither of these calibrate sharpness or other modalities other than color?

I tell you all of this to point out what an amatuer I am prior to asking the question: STV100 or STV200? The money difference isn't that big of a deal for me but I don't want to buy into something that I won't even be able to use without complex calcuations via a spreadsheet.

I am sorry to ask for your opinion then ask to to speak to me at a REALLY LOW LEVEL, but I am extremely curious about this technology and am very interested in picking one up IF it will be useful and relatively easy to use.

Thanks...

Jack - If you are comfortable with AVIA, then it will probably give you the easiest/cheapest eyeball calibration technique. The SpyderTV is a slave to its optimization algorithm, and it will generally push a display a bit more than you get with AVIA/DVE. Fundamentally, I stand by my initial review point:

Is it better than DVE or Avia? It is certainly faster in my experience. The DVD does also include additional test patterns to set Contrast and Brightness visually before starting the calibration procedure, so you definitely do not need either of those discs if you are going to be SpyderTV-centric. However, the price differential between DVE ($20), AVIA (~$40) and the SpyderTV (MSRP: $269, about $240 on the street) is significant.

So, who is this for? People who want a rock-solid basic set-up, but who do not want to spend the time and hassle dealing with DVE (bad menu structures) and Avia (color errors in some patterns, no BTB/WTW).

So, if AVIA/DVE are more trouble than it is worth to you, then the STV100 is a good deal, budget withstanding. However, the implication here is that if you are comfortable with AVIA/DVE, then the STV100 is probably a bit more tool than you need. The caveat to this last is the ability to pull the xyY data out of its support mode.

If you can follow my calibration guide, then you can learn to use the STV100 and spreadsheet models related to it. If, after reading my calibration guide, you are still not "getting it", then stick with AVIA/DVE.

The STV200 (SpyderTV Pro) has not been released yet, so I can't comment on it. When I've got a unit in my hands after it is released, I'll create a new review thread for that model. I'm pretty stoked about the price decrease, though!

Later,
Bill

So, here is what I have found. I have Optical as well, and both the sensors want to control grey scale through the higher white levels. Both units seem to boost red in the whites and at lower, darker ire's they pull the red back and push the blue. At the top end blue is significantly reduced. I am left with a picture that looks unnatural - redder in the bright scenes and bluis/green in the darks - Both sensor produce similar results.

Confused?

Thanks Ursa, that makes sense.

jeff

ursa:
i did the /support shortcut and my values were this:

x=3.00
y=3.00
Y=2.00


what i want to know is that i am using spidertv and these results came after calibration. where do i put these numbers at?
Your article said to copy them over to where??
and on my rptv-Hitachi 57s500, my settings are this after 3 runs=
brightness=41
contrast=75.....??
color=10
tint=-3
color temp=standard

I know this is redundant as hell but what does x,y and y mean and how do i correct this to get to 6500?? I know these numbers are too high and need to be at 2.2........just a few pointers is all i need if you can spare them?

thanks

deez,
You're right - it is redundant as hell. ;) Please post support requests for Shawn Rader's spreadsheet in Shawn Rader's thread. It will help everyone who wants to use it. Also, try my calibration guide, then ask questions in the appropriate thread (i.e., the calibration thread). This thread is about the Spyder itself, and it seems like you are way behind on the basics.

Thanks!

Bill

Looks like the support for /support has been cut off - a proper x,y value is less than 1 - as it is a normalized value.

Looks like the support for /support has been cut off - a proper x,y value is less than 1 - as it is a normalized value.

hmm any more info on this?? ...(now that i already have ordered the spydertv kit instead of the pro kit........ :( )
hopefylly some one will be kind enough to share the older spydertv soft in such case.... incase the limitation is in the software.. ;)

I took him to mean that Ursa just wasn't giving very specific "support" to deez regarding his questions about /support.

As far as I can tell /support still works just fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've got a question I was hoping someone could answer. I'm trying to get my grayscale readings on my Toshiba RPTV. I purchsed my SpyderTV locally within tha last month so I would assume that I have the latest sensor. I have also upgraded to Spyder2PRO software.

The problem I have is when I leave the LCD filter on and get my xyY data from the SpyderTV software my results are

x .309
y .321
Y 12.5

When I take the filter off and use the Spyder2PRO software my readings are

x .282
y .316
Y 4.990

Would anyone know what would be causing this difference?

Look at the filter - it is not clear but colored - and will certainly push readings and cut light. You need to use whatever they calibrated the sensor for - and I am not up on which way that is (my prototype does not use the filter - but apparently production ones do)

I just got my SpyderTV the other day. I calibrated my Panasonic Plasma TH50PX50U last night in a dark room. The results were absolutely HORRID! My settings when I started were as follows:

Picture = -14
Brightness = 0
Tint = 0
Color = -4
Sharpness = 0
Temp = Normal
Picture Mode = Standard

These settings were obtained using The Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune Up DVD.

Note: All readings on the Panasonic have a scale from -30 to +30.

When the caibration was over here's what my settings were.

Picture = +20
Brightness = -24
Tint = -9
Color = -1
Sharpness = 0
Temp = Warm
Picture Mode = Standard

The Plasma and DVD player were warmed up for over an hour before I started the calibration. I have heard many complain about the SpyderTV pushing reds and I had the same results. I have also heard the issue is not with the SpyderTV but with the display properties/settings. From what I've been reading it sounds like almost every set has the red push problem. Plus most of the professional reviews I've been reading complain of the same red push problem.

Even more disturbing was the Picture/Contrast settings. HOLY COW Bat Man!!! Talk about torch mode! Plus 20 out of 30? I tried to sit through a movie after calibration and I couldn't stand it. My eyes were on fire!

Any ideas why I would be getting such outrageous contrast and brightness settings?

I had the same problem too on my Hitachi 57s500...the contrast at 76 out of 100!!!!!



I cut it down to 65......but still this was in a darkened room as well.....

I took him to mean that Ursa just wasn't giving very specific "support" to deez regarding his questions about /support.

As far as I can tell /support still works just fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
You got it. What I have told the folks at Colorvision is that when they do cut-off the "/support" flag, all that people have to do is re-install the original software, and >>poof<< they are back in business. The /support flag horse is out of the barn, pretty much for good unless we start getting reports from folks who have bought recently who can't use it.

As for my response to deez, the questions that I zeroed in on were
where do i put these numbers at? Your article said to copy them over to where??
As with most products, if you are going to start using an unsupported feature, you need to know what you are doing. My hope, in writing my calibration guide, is that people would read it and gain that level of understanding. As such, any deficiencies about what is or is not in that guide should be addressed in that thread.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or be mean, it is just that this thread is what it is, no more and no less. There are other threads here on the forum where we can all contribute to increasing our collective knowledge.

Later,
Bill

My response to deez is that the numbers he posted are not valid x,y numbers - maybe he bogused them just for the post. Did not mean to stir the pot with assuming /support barn door was closed....

But that is part of knowing what you are doing - which is knowing when your instruments are not giving you valid readings. Calibration is not plug (in the numbers) and play (with your display).

THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSES ....JUST TO BE CLEAR MY POSTS WERE IN NO WAY MEANT TO FLAME OR DISRESPECT ANYONE ....As I appreciate your input i will re-read your guide to see what i missed......after that is sure would like to learn here or some other thread an idiots guide that kinda spells out the basics of using spedertv in the most efficent way.......for me it helps to have the basics dumbed down and after i get those the rest is a lot easier....so again thanks for your time on this.

Deez - No offense taken! :) I'm happy to help what I can, but I do want to make sure that the information is contained in the appropriate thread. Already, this thread is getting long enough that it is prohibitive for people to go through it and pick up on all of the important nuggets.

The beginner's calibration threads are good places to start because I'm sure you have questions that are either a) unclear in my guide or in the thread, or b) have questions that other folks who are new to calibration might not be willing to express for fear of being seen to be, well, new. Heck, read some of the stuff I posted two years ago and you will see how far I've come! :)

Later,
Bill

For those of you with SpyderTV and using support mode:

If you accidently close the support window, you can get it back easily without having to restart SpyderTV.

Just hold down the ALT and CTRL keys, and type in the word sierra. The support mode is still working even in the most current version of SpyderTV.

Has it been confirmed that Spydertv Pro will use the same wizard from Colorfacts to calibrate Grayscale?

The ColorFacts Calibration Wizard
The ColorFacts Calibration Wizard will assist you in making the electronic
adjustments to your display device to calibrate both the gray scale tracking and
the luminance output (“gamma”). These two adjustments are a very important
part of obtaining a calibrated image. This wizard will walk you through all
of the steps necessary to make these adjustments and calibrate your display
device by adjusting settings such as Cuts (possibly called Bias or Offsets on
your display) and Gains (also called Drives).

Hello,

I am a prety disapointed owner of the PJTX100, played around with Factory settings to get rid of VB and to better color uniformity, and result is a tad better but still not good.

I am willing to invest like 300-350 euros for a good tool to help me calibrate it, and help me calibrate a future LCD TV.

Should I wait for Spyder TV Pro or get the S2Pro?

What would be the difference between those 2?

Thanks for your input, I flied over some of this heavy thread but I cant really make my mind on what to do.


I forgot to add my source for the projector is a Pioneer 868 via HDMI-DVI cable, will I still be able to aim my settings at a specific value through xyz readings and displaying avia?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Wixx/Pritch - The STV Pro has not been released yet.

All - Can we leave the STV Pro questions to other threads? I'm sure there will be a thread announcing it, and another thread (or three) talking about it once we have it.

Later,
Bill

I have been looking over the spyder2 Pro and I have a question I hope one of you can answer. I don't use a computer on my AE900U so the auto calibration part of the software is useless to me. My questions is, Can I still use it with DVE or AVIA to get my grey scale in order. I can set it up and use the measure tool and just check my color temp of the grey fields in DVE or AVIA and then make the needed corrections, is this correct?

Yes. This was answered in the first three posts.

Yes. This was answered in the first three posts.

Thanks, I read so much I forgot what I read :)

no sweat. :)

Is the difference between SpyderTV and Spyder 2 Pro just software related?
THe hardware on both is the last version?

I just wanna make sure.

Wixx - Yes, the difference in the latest versions is the software. If we could find a way to get the exposure control from the STV into the S2PRO, then there would be a pretty unambiguous recommendation between the two, money no object. However, currently, you have to pick which is more important.

Thx Ursa, what is the best way to position the spyder for video projector readings, I read facing the projector, but at what distance/angle?

Do u have to remove the "filter" on the Spyder TV eye?

Thanks again for helping out, those products seem pretty interesting but are also a bit confusing regarding how to best work with them and what to expect from the software/eye.

Wixx - read my calibration guide. The STV is designed always to have the baffle/light grate on it. For projector readings, you can either use it in ambient mode (facing the lens) for maximum sensitivity (captures more light), or you can read off of the screen. See the appendix to my calibration guide for pictures.

Later,
Bill

This may be an ignorant question but I am no ISF calibrator by any stretch. Now that I have measured my grey scale with the spyder2 meter and picture looks pretty good on the Panny projector, are there other things I can measure with it? I have both DVE and AVIA, can I use the meter do to any further tweaking other than grey scale? Is the meter of any use on the color fields? and what would I be doing exactly?

Jeff - Good question! What I find a good next step (I freely admit that I am boring) is measuring the primaries/secondaries to determine how far off they are. Presumably you have your white point set to D65 as closely as possible throughout the grayscale. However, this does not mean that you are also accurate as you move further towards the edge of the color gamut. While you can't really do much with the primaries with most displays, on some, you can edit their locations a bit to bring them in or blow them out.

Use the Y = R + G + B equation for the particular standard to which you are calibrating to calculate L* and convert the xy coordinates into u*v*. Plug this into the dE* and that will tell you what your color error looks like at the edge.

After that, you can begin mapping what your color and tint (sat and hue) controls do, and use the Spyder to dial that in as well. If you get really fancy, and have the display for it, you can even begin to get into editing your color matrix. I would memorize Poynton (and a few others) before going there, though.

As the old maps used to say, here be dragons.

Later,
Bill

OK, you just went over my head :) Is there a more simple explanation and or utility to help me do this. I understand what you are saying but do you know of some step by step info I can read on how this should be done?

Jeff - Reallistically, if you have mastered grayscale, then my guide (see my signature) is not going to help you out. Your next major step is to either spend a couple of bucks (more like $200+) on various textbooks, or sort of relish your accomplishments, declare victory and go watch a movie or something.

You could also really dive down the rabbit hole by signing up for an ISF course, but that just leads to all sorts of equipment showing up at your house with your SO asking, "So, why again do we need this?" ;)

Later,
Bill

PS: I skipped the ISF course, and just had the talk.

hi!
what is the "optimal? workin range" (sensitivy/dynamic etc) of the spyder2 sensor?
meaning ---> what are the min/max values it can handle?..or atleast the max cd/m2 :) anyone have the spec?
(want to know so i don't use it to close to light source)
/Hrc

It is absurbly high for an instrument of this kind (well over 1,000 ftL [7500? 25,000?] - I don't have the spec handy). You may fry it measuring spotlights, but any reasonably lamp-based display won't come close to cooking it.

Later,
Bill

I saw a report that this device didn't work very well on a DLP RPTV. Apparently it dramatically under-measured blue across the board. That report is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=665437). The user was able to successfully use an EyeOne Pro to do his calibration.

So the question in all of this is, does anyone know why the SpyderTV colorimeter would not be suited for DLP RPTVs? It sounds like the user in the post referenced used the automated SpyderTV software. Could it just be an issue with their algorithms (seems unlikely)?

Thanks for any info.

Ferris - the easiest way to answer you would have been to point you to a monograph by Mark Hunter, who created ColorFacts and now works at Colorvision. The short answer goes like this:

- Read "The ABCs of XYZ" in my calibration guide
- There are two types of color measuring devices in the prosumer market: filter-based and "prism" based.
- Filter-based devices combine light sensors with color filters to measure the three primary colors. Most of these have one filter/sensor combination per primary. This leads to them having names like "trichromat" for obvious reasons. The Spyder has seven such combinations, with an eighth designated for white measurement. Hence the name "Spyder".
- "Prism" based units do not really use prisms, per se. Instead, they use a very fine grate, that acts like a prism, to divide light into its constituent components. The light is then measured by an array of diodes(IIRC). These devices go by the name "spectroradiometer" or "spectro".
- Given that the most commonly used spectro, the Gretag Macbeth EyeOne has 40 measurement points, it has the potential to be quite a bit more accurate than the Spyder, but the minimum buy-in price for the GMB EyeOne is in the $600+ category (new), and that is without software.

Your question, though, is whether the Spyder is really bad for DLP? My answer is that it is not that simple. It has some quirks, but so does the EyeOne (see the first three posts for more on this). In the thread you linked, Michael TLV's response most agrees with my own perspective: not all tools are good for all display types. Taken one better, for something like the Sony Ruby, several folks are using EyeOne's for grayscale, and the Spyder for the primaries/secondaries. Scary, huh?

The long and the short of it is that if something like the EyeOne is within your budget, then you need to think long and hard about investing in something like that. At less than $200, my thought has been that the STV is worth a go, and my results indicate that it would have been "good enough" for me, but I had to buy the EyeOne to check both out (KenLand and I both asked umr (Jeff Meier) to release his proprietary software to the market, though Ken was probably far more persuasive than I was).

These are the issues which I wish would come out more in this thread, or others, to help people figure out whether the STV/S2PRO are right for their displays. Hopefully this mostly non-answer helped.

Later,
Bill

Ursa,

Thanks for the explanation. I had a quick look at your guide a couple of weeks ago, but I obviously need to read it in more detail now that I am considering actually buying something to do a calibration. I've been leaning toward getting an STV because of cost. I could get an EyeOne, but it would require a little more saving and patience, and obviously a little more rationalization to myself that the hobby is worth it.

That reminds me of something. I've seen umr mention in a few threads that he feels filter based colorimeters are throwaway devices (because moisture will accumulate between the filter and the sensor). I imagine storing the device in a zip-lock with some desicant packs would help. What's your take on this?

Is an EyeOne very useful without expensive software. Would I be able to do things similarly to how a SpyderTV would be used with rader's spreadsheet? Colorfacts is well out of my price range, and adding umr's software on top of the EyeOne is pretty pricey as well.

Thanks for all the help.

That reminds me of something. I've seen umr mention in a few threads that he feels filter based colorimeters are throwaway devices (because moisture will accumulate between the filter and the sensor). I imagine storing the device in a zip-lock with some desicant packs would help. What's your take on this?
That's what I do. I have several dessicant packs from various electronics purchases (e.g., hard drives) that I keep with my Spyder in the STV zip bag. Inside a waterproof tub with my other calibration gear (and miscellaneous cables/adapters).

Is an EyeOne very useful without expensive software.
No. Jeff's is the cheapest game in town for that, and it starts at $500 beyond the price of the sensor.

Thanks for all the help.
Your welcome! For me, it was really tough. When I started this quest about two and a half years ago, the only two packages on the market that were conceivable were SmartIII (~$300) and CFacts ($2400). At the time, I was willing to spend $1k on good calibration instrumentation, since I was going through a projector about every five months. I went the SmartIII route and hated it (too tedious). Since then, prices have come down dramatically and options have exploded.

While I respect Jeff's software, and do recommend for those in that price range, the thrust of my advice is typically grounded in one thought: would I rather spend the incremental money on a sensor or a better display? With the gulf between the Spyder series and everything else, my response has been "better display" now that we seem to be back on track with significant improvements in display technology (we were stuck at 720p and 1080i for a LONG time).

Hope this helps you guys understand the basis for my recommendations.

Later,
Bill

Ugh. I have a very short window of opportunity to get our new bedroom Sony HD LCD TV calibrated before my fiancee returns from a business trip, so I just rush-ordered a SpyderTV and received it last night.

Open the box and pop in the DVD and they tell me that I could damage my display without the tripod (I actually thought I would be getting the tripod, but I guess it's not included with the SpyderTV...)

So my question is, "if I'm really, really careful, am I still going to damage the display by affixing the Spyder with the suction cup?" TV is a KDL-V26XBR1, in case that matters. Who knows, maybe it has thicker skin than your average LCD?

I saw a report that this device didn't work very well on a DLP RPTV. Apparently it dramatically under-measured blue across the board. That report is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=665437). The user was able to successfully use an EyeOne Pro to do his calibration.

So the question in all of this is, does anyone know why the SpyderTV colorimeter would not be suited for DLP RPTVs? It sounds like the user in the post referenced used the automated SpyderTV software. Could it just be an issue with their algorithms (seems unlikely)?

Thanks for any info.


Acutally it is very likely algorithms involved. ColorFacts has an automated and manual exposure time preference. Increasing the exposure time (I use 8s) increases accuracy especially for dark blacks and dark colors - the fact is that the Spyder2 is the most accurate sensor at this than any other - as it has the best sensitivity spec (though I am not sure about this with the LCD attachement on - I use it without since my prototype was designed that way). You can tell if your meter is getting a stable reading - does it have repeatability? Does your software have an option to adjust exposure so that you can get repeatability? Or does the reading jitter with random noise everytime? If it is repeatable - that does not necessarily mean it is accurate - just that you consistently get the wrong answer - and only a proper factory recalibration on your sensor can solve that (possibly your sensor has aged from humidity) But this is the easy way to see if you are using a sensor beyond it's range - do you have repeatability or not?

I have never had an issue with blue readings including the one mentioned in that "review"- and this IS on DLP displays with very accurate deep blues - however I use the Spyder2 prototype (calibrated to lab references) with the Optimagery driver designed to read the projector directly, with the Colorfacts software which has more options for tuning your sensors repeatability. I rather doubt that the SpyderTV sensor and software is tuned for accuracy and repeatability - it was not designed for doing greyscale and gamut measures - so it does not need to have that tuning.

Ugh. I have a very short window of opportunity to get our new bedroom Sony HD LCD TV calibrated before my fiancee returns from a business trip, so I just rush-ordered a SpyderTV and received it last night.

Open the box and pop in the DVD and they tell me that I could damage my display without the tripod (I actually thought I would be getting the tripod, but I guess it's not included with the SpyderTV...)

So my question is, "if I'm really, really careful, am I still going to damage the display by affixing the Spyder with the suction cup?" TV is a KDL-V26XBR1, in case that matters. Who knows, maybe it has thicker skin than your average LCD?

Feel the circular weight that is attached? Pull it out some - firmly, strongly, but don't tug or jerk. IF you can get that so that it is balanced on top or behind the top of your TV, then there is no need for using the suction cup at all. It's a counterweight, after all. Just make sure you have enough of the cable between the weight and the sensor to allow the sensor to actually reach the middle of the measurement patterns.

That being said, you would have to jam the suction cup pretty hard to hurt your TV (scratch glass, crush pixels), but that is exactly what Colorvision is trying to avoid with the disclaimer.

Later,
Bill

Pretty good one Bill - they design it with suction cups to attach to your TV - and then the stinking lawyers add the disclaimer that says don't attach it to the TV! I love it when lawyers design products!

NOOB question here about the spydertv

I guess I don't fully understand how this device works.
there is a DVD that displays color patterns etc so you can adjust your tv but that will just adjust that one input (for me my DVD is connected to the component input but my cable box is on a hdmi) is there a way to use this on any of the inputs without a dvd playing back a test pattern? I have a feeling the answer to that is no and if it is no, whats the best way to go about this?

again please forgive what is probably a very ignorant question I have been reading through posts and looking on the color vision web site but cant find what I am looking for. Also I was not sure if I should post this as a new topic, if thats the case I will delete it and move it somewhere.

thanks in advance

Mike

Ursa, thanks for the advice on affixing to my LCD.

I got through the Spyder official calibration on the new LCD and results were fine. Nothing terribly exciting, though. I'd already calibrated brightness with DVE and eyeballed the rest.

Then I ran it on our 30" Samsung directview CRT. This TV has issues in its power supply and is thus very difficult to calibrate, and I never got anything I would call satisfactory out of Avia and DVE. The Spyder calibration was the best I've seen the TV look, easily.

I'm looking forward to doing greyscale on both, but for what the Spyder has done for my crippled Samsung already, it's earned its place in my arsenal.

I guess I don't fully understand how this device works.
there is a DVD that displays color patterns etc so you can adjust your tv but that will just adjust that one input (for me my DVD is connected to the component input but my cable box is on a hdmi) is there a way to use this on any of the inputs without a dvd playing back a test pattern? I have a feeling the answer to that is no and if it is no, whats the best way to go about this?
The best way to get the test patterns into inputs which are not fed by your DVD player is with a signal generator. You can find a cheap one for ~$600, but this starts to be real money. A PC with a DVI output is your next best bet.

Later,
Bill

Are there any estimates for release of Spyder TV Pro?

I ran the Spyder calibration for my TV's RF input the other day. I used a laptop's Svideo out into a Dynex RF modulator.

The results looked good to me at first, but the more I look at the actual cable feed through the RF input, the more I am convinced that blacks are too low and whites too high.

I think I could have done better by eyeballing it with broadcast color bars. There are just too many variables in the setup I used. The primary problem may be that the laptop is sending "non-normal" colors out its svideo port.


I'm planning to wake up early the next time HBO broadcasts its color bars and give that a shot. The HBO schedule that is available by PDF from http://www.hbo.com/guidepdf/ lists the color bars as "HBO Transmission Test". It happened on May 2 at 6:30 am EDT. So it's probably due again in early June.


How do professional calibrators deal with the fact that a local cable provider may have (probably has) something other than perfectly standard colors and levels? Do they calibrate their signal generators to the cable company? Do they not bother with SDTV RF?

Are there any estimates for release of Spyder TV Pro?
Since my Magic 8 Ball does not give me numeric responses, the best estimate I have is "Regression to the mean". My Magic 8 Ball is schwag from SPSS, so it has useless answers like this for predicting the future. ;)

I am HOPING that June holds up, but I do not know.

Later,
Bill

I ran the Spyder calibration for my TV's RF input the other day. I used a laptop's Svideo out into a Dynex RF modulator.

The results looked good to me at first, but the more I look at the actual cable feed through the RF input, the more I am convinced that blacks are too low and whites too high.

I think I could have done better by eyeballing it with broadcast color bars. There are just too many variables in the setup I used. The primary problem may be that the laptop is sending "non-normal" colors out its svideo port.


I'm planning to wake up early the next time HBO broadcasts its color bars and give that a shot. The HBO schedule that is available by PDF from http://www.hbo.com/guidepdf/ lists the color bars as "HBO Transmission Test". It happened on May 2 at 6:30 am EDT. So it's probably due again in early June.


How do professional calibrators deal with the fact that a local cable provider may have (probably has) something other than perfectly standard colors and levels? Do they calibrate their signal generators to the cable company? Do they not bother with SDTV RF?

If you are sending the images using the PC as a source, there is no way to know how the PC's video card is producing blacks(i.e., 7.5IRE or 0IRE). This could be what affected your settings on the TV. You could try a DVD player attached to the RF modulator instead.

I would not think that professional calibrators would calibrate to the cable company. Though their equipment does have to be re-calibrated periodically.

I thought about buying a STB DVD player for that purpose, but it seemed a little ridiculous. I might borrow one.

Since my Magic 8 Ball does not give me numeric responses, the best estimate I have is "Regression to the mean". My Magic 8 Ball is schwag from SPSS, so it has useless answers like this for predicting the future. ;)

I am HOPING that June holds up, but I do not know.

Later,
Bill

Bill, have we already settled on the "which one is the one to get" question (of either the Spyder2Pro or the TV Pro)? In my case I have both CRT computer monitors that I use for photographic workflow and a CRT TV for HT use. Is there a Venn diagram or something that shows what's unique about each of the Pro models versus what is in common? I'm looking for the absolute maximum ability to correctly calibrate both (between these two).

Bill, have we already settled on the "which one is the one to get" question (of either the Spyder2Pro or the TV Pro)? In my case I have both CRT computer monitors that I use for photographic workflow and a CRT TV for HT use. Is there a Venn diagram or something that shows what's unique about each of the Pro models versus what is in common? I'm looking for the absolute maximum ability to correctly calibrate both (between these two).
Tony - If you need to share ICM profile data with your photographic work, then you need the S2PRO functionality. I prefer the STV in order to be able to control exposure time. However, if you put the S2PRO into continuous mode, and let the readings "settle", you probably end up with the same effect.

In short, no, there's not a definitive answer as to which to choose. From my standpoint, you would not regret purchasing either.

Later,
Bill

Tony - If you need to share ICM profile data with your photographic work, then you need the S2PRO functionality. I prefer the STV in order to be able to control exposure time. However, if you put the S2PRO into continuous mode, and let the readings "settle", you probably end up with the same effect.

In short, no, there's not a definitive answer as to which to choose. From my standpoint, you would not regret purchasing either.

Later,
Bill

Thanks Bill. It's the "probably" that bothers me, as I would not want to shortchange the TV side of things.

I already have the earlier SpyderTV, which I have found so far to be sufficient for my PC actvities (using the Spyder2Pro software). Do you know if this arrangement will work with the newer TV Pro?

Tony - I can't imagine the STV Pro being a downgrade in any way in this regard.

Later,
Bill

I just got my SpyderTV the other day. I calibrated my Panasonic Plasma TH50PX50U last night in a dark room. The results were absolutely HORRID! My settings when I started were as follows:

Picture = -14
Brightness = 0
Tint = 0
Color = -4
Sharpness = 0
Temp = Normal
Picture Mode = Standard

These settings were obtained using The Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune Up DVD.

Note: All readings on the Panasonic have a scale from -30 to +30.

When the caibration was over here's what my settings were.

Picture = +20
Brightness = -24
Tint = -9
Color = -1
Sharpness = 0
Temp = Warm
Picture Mode = Standard

The Plasma and DVD player were warmed up for over an hour before I started the calibration. I have heard many complain about the SpyderTV pushing reds and I had the same results. I have also heard the issue is not with the SpyderTV but with the display properties/settings. From what I've been reading it sounds like almost every set has the red push problem. Plus most of the professional reviews I've been reading complain of the same red push problem.

Even more disturbing was the Picture/Contrast settings. HOLY COW Bat Man!!! Talk about torch mode! Plus 20 out of 30? I tried to sit through a movie after calibration and I couldn't stand it. My eyes were on fire!

Any ideas why I would be getting such outrageous contrast and brightness settings?

Anyone have an answer to this question? I am getting a Panasonic TH-42PX60U soon and was thinking about STV, but if the results are similar to the above users, I might think otherwise and go with AVIA or DVE

My experience with the STV calibration wizard also resulted in the white level (contrast, picture) being set way too high. My set is a Mitsu DLP. I think the software looks for some non-linearity in light level output versus setting and sets the output to the high end of what it considers linear.

Go back into the STV DVD and look at the additional test patterns. There are ones for setting brightness and contrast manually that result in much more reasonable levels.

My experience with the STV calibration wizard also resulted in the white level (contrast, picture) being set way too high. My set is a Mitsu DLP. I think the software looks for some non-linearity in light level output versus setting and sets the output to the high end of what it considers linear.

Go back into the STV DVD and look at the additional test patterns. There are ones for setting brightness and contrast manually that result in much more reasonable levels.


But doesnt this defeat the whole purpose of using spidertv???

I have calibrated 5 sets 2 plasmas, 1 dlp ,1 lcd and one crt all resulting in the contrast in torch mode!!! To me this is unacceptable....this could actually damage your display not enhance it.....I am going to probably send a complaint email to datcolor and then sell my spidertv and then go back to using DVE......unless thier is a software fix....

But doesnt this defeat the whole purpose of using spidertv???

Personally, I use it for grayscale.

I'd be inclined to set the white and black levels by eye (using a test disk like Avia, GetGray or DVE) and then use the SpyderTV with the /support function and Excel spreadsheet to adjust the greyscale like Bill does. I wouldn't use it (the Wizard) as designed to be honest. You could use it (with the spreadsheet) to see which settings are closest to D65 if it hasn't got RGB controls that are available.

Gary

Personally, I use it for grayscale.

Agreed. I've been happy with the /support mode for doing that.

When adjusting grayscale with spydertv w/ Dve, do we use the full ire windows in chapter 14? I have a sony direct view tv. Thanks for any help.

I prefer full-field for APL uniformity reasons, rather than window patterns, for my DLP FP. PDP and CRT owners will want to use window patterns for power supply and other reasons (Both CRTs and PDPs have issues with full-field patterns).

In DVE, use Title 14, Chapters 2 and 5 to do 2-point with field patterns. Use AVIA or GetGray for a full gamma profile.

http://www.videoessentials.com/docs/DVE_Consumer_NTSC.pdf

Later,
Bill

Thanks Ursa. Another question I used Rader's spreadsheet and it says I have a gamma of 2.72 is there any why to lower the gamma curve to 2.2 or 2.5? Thanks for the help.

Personally, I use it for grayscale.

Well, i guess i have to learn how to do that.....I have read your cal basics 3 times ill read it again and see if i can figure this out.....it just pisses me off because i just want spidertv for contrast and brightness mainly but having a dlp at 92 contrast is absurd.....

Thanks Ursa. Another question I used Rader's spreadsheet and it says I have a gamma of 2.72 is there any why to lower the gamma curve to 2.2 or 2.5? Thanks for the help.
On some displays, lowering your contrast will also lower your gamma. On others, you need to tweak a gamma control specifically.

BTW, don't use "Rader's spreadsheet" in the same sentence as asking for my help. Since this was a generic question, I'll let it slide (yes, I do have a big hang-up over all of the PMs I get asking for help with his stuff).

deez - grab a copy of the GetGray disc (or DVE or AVIA). GG or DVE can be had for ~$25, and you won't stress over it. With Scott's disc, once you are ready to move to grayscale, you will want to use its other capabilities.

Later,
Bill

Thanks Ursa for the help. I apologize for bringing up the spreadsheet. Thats the only one I know of. Is there any other spreadsheet out there i can use to calibrate my tv? Thanks again.

ragingd,
radar's spreadsheet is sufficient and works well for analyzing and recording rgb readings, i.e. no need to search out something else. Just pick the tab that corresponds to the disc you're using.

I'll second the recommendation for GetGray. for brightness, the low-end patterns work really well for crt-based displays and are ideal for digital ones.

I originally had a gamma at 2.9, on a rptv crt toshiba and mits. turning contrast down about 15% brought the gamma nicely to 2.5.

Best,
jeff

Where do you get radar's spreadsheet or any other spread sheet? I have Avia and spydertv and will probably get the Getgray disk tonight.

spydertv also gave me crazy high contrast numbers on my hls5687, I am going to rerun everything again tonight and see what happens.

here's the link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=587485&page=1&highlight=spreadsheet

I think it's fairly well established now that the spydertv wizard will not give accurate contrast numbers. use it in /support mode to get xyY readings, feed those into the spreadsheet and set your contrast so that you get a proper gamma, if using a crt display. If digital, YMMV.

jeff

Tks, Bill.

so cool = blue = 9300K = high temp.

after enter service mode, how can I know which abbr means what? :confused:
TV is Tosh 62HM84.


Color temperature is described using photographic terminology, so the more "blue" a whitepoint is, the "cooler" it is even though the temperature increases when measured in Kelvin (blue is more energetic than red...). Conversely, redder color temperatures are described as "warmer" even though they are actually physically cooler. So your last choice is the one that is consistent with general usage. (The Japanese television standard uses a 9300K white point, btw).

Later,
Bill

Tks, Bill.

so cool = blue = 9300K = high temp.

after enter service mode, how can I know which abbr means what? :confused:
TV is Tosh 62HM84.
You may want to purchase a service manual for the TV, or experiment. However, if you posted your question in the RPTV forum, I'm sure someone might be able to tell you. You can post those abbreviations here, but I can't guarantee you that I can decipher them.

Later,
Bill

On some displays, lowering your contrast will also lower your gamma. On others, you need to tweak a gamma control specifically.

BTW, don't use "Rader's spreadsheet" in the same sentence as asking for my help. Since this was a generic question, I'll let it slide (yes, I do have a big hang-up over all of the PMs I get asking for help with his stuff).

deez - grab a copy of the GetGray disc (or DVE or AVIA). GG or DVE can be had for ~$25, and you won't stress over it. With Scott's disc, once you are ready to move to grayscale, you will want to use its other capabilities.

Later,
Bill

Thanks URSA, i have dve and will get GG soon.........i just would like to learn how to set grayscale without using the 80% and using my eye to see if there is any colors in the white.........I am totally glad that i am not the only one with the ridiculous contrast levels.......so the x,y and Y capabilities are still good to use for spidertv and then taking those values and using service mode or rgb settings[cuts and drives]\ can help to achieve accurate color temp??