Thanks URSA, i have dve and will get GG soon.........i just would like to learn how to set grayscale without using the 80% and using my eye to see if there is any colors in the white.........I am totally glad that i am not the only one with the ridiculous contrast levels.......so the x,y and Y capabilities are still good to use for spidertv and then taking those values and using service mode or rgb settings[cuts and drives]\ can help to achieve accurate color temp??
This is essentially what the STV Pro will help you do. The key to remember, though, is that you are trying to hit a specific point with your grayscale calibration, not a color temp line. Thus, your target is D65 in actuality, not 6500K.

Lewdog had a pretty concise post a while back that described how to do a two point grayscale calibration manually, without worrying about gamma. I'd recommend checking that out first.

Later,
Bill

This is essentially what the STV Pro will help you do. The key to remember, though, is that you are trying to hit a specific point with your grayscale calibration, not a color temp line. Thus, your target is D65 in actuality, not 6500K.

Lewdog had a pretty concise post a while back that described how to do a two point grayscale calibration manually, without worrying about gamma. I'd recommend checking that out first.

Later,
Bill


thanks URSA ill try to find that post....

I am looking for a low cost (< $300) calibration tool to calibrate my FP DLP (driven by an HTPC with TT/ffdshow). I already have DVE and Avia, but want a more “thorough” tool. Ideally would allow for a rather automated, wizard-type calibration process or have at least clearly laid out step-by-step process instructions. (I hope I do not sound too ignorant, but I am only really interested in the end result and not so much how to get there and why.) A laptop is available.
From what I gathered here I believe a Spyder product could do what I want. However, I am bit overwhelmed by the variety of different tools/software packages. I also understand there were hardware and software revisions since this thread was started, so information may now be a bit outdated. Visiting the Spyder website made things even worse. After wading through a good portion of the 26 page thread I am still a bit confused.

I used Ursa’s initial post to get some guidance. I added answers to describe my situation.
-----------------------------
Purchase the SpyderTV if:
• You have displays (e.g., TV, projector) <<YES>> that are not connected to a PC <<NO>> and that you do want a more sophisticated calibration than what DVE/Avia provide. <<YES>>
• You are looking to buy both the SpyderTV and the PRO for both PC and stand-alone displays. <<NO>>
• You want to purchase the lowest cost solution for mixed-use, and you have a good quality software DVD player on your PC. <<YES>>
• You are budget constrained and need the cheapest comprehensive solution available (full calibration, and do not want to also buy DVE/Avia). <<YES>>

Purchase the Spyder2PRO v2.0 if:
• Your HT is predominantly PC-based, and it is not important to you to calibrate the non-PC displays. <<YES>>
• You have a front projection based HT using a digital technology (e.g., DLP), and you are more comfortable with formal support for FP in the currently released product. <<YES>>
• You are looking to buy both the SpyderTV and the PRO for both PC and stand-alone displays. <<NO>>
• You want to purchase only one product for mixed-use, and you feel the profiling capability of the PRO is worth the price premium. <<YES>>
• You need the Spyder2PRO for a PC environment, and your HT is a secondary consideration. <<NO>>
------------------------------------------
As you can see it is a mix of YESs and NOs.
To make things worse I learned that SpyderTV Pro may be released in June.

I am in no real rush to buy so I could easily wait a few more weeks, if needed.

I would appreciate if someone can steer me in the right direction.

Thanks much!
_____
Axel

(4,999 - last real post)

Axel - Read the wording on my bullets a bit more carefully. If the price premium of the S2PRO is worth it to get profiling, then get the S2PRO. You won't be unhappy. If your budget is <$300, then you will not find a new STV Pro for that amount for a long, long time (if ever), so count that out of your equation.

Later,
Bill

Alright kids, after almost three years, this userid has run its course. AVS is having problems with keeping my subscriptions working (they generally don't), so I'm signing off from this ID. My next one should obvious if you have any inkling of Latin language skills (or astronomy).

To quote Dennis Miller back when he was funny:
That was the news, and I am outta here.

Not so later,

Bill

Thanks much, Bill. So, I'll start shopping for the S2PRO.
Do I have to pay attention to any hardware revisions that may be out there, in case I find one on ebay or even could buy a used one?

......and congrats to your 5k!

_____
Axel

Thanks much, Bill. So, I'll start shopping for the S2PRO.
Do I have to pay attention to any hardware revisions that may be out there, in case I find one on ebay or even could buy a used one?

......and congrats to your 5k!

_____
Axel
Axel - Yes. You want the S2PRO version 2.0 retail package. Do not get stuck with any 1.x retail versions, with or without a software upgrade "included" (you can always download updates from Colorvision's website).

The new Bill

Thanks, New Bill.

I see you are already at 4 posts and counting.. :)
_____
Axel

Thanks, New Bill.

I see you are already at 4 posts and counting.. :)
_____
Axel
Gotta get over 5 so I can post links again... ;)

Ursa

->5K->

Bear

Took me a while to get it. Phreaking forum noobs infesting the place :D

Axel - Yes. You want the S2PRO version 2.0 retail package. Do not get stuck with any 1.x retail versions, with or without a software upgrade "included" (you can always download updates from Colorvision's website).

The new Bill

Bill;
Is there are a way to tell from the outside whether it is a 2.0 or 1.x package? Any specific UPC code I should look for maybe?

TIA!
____
Axel

v2 is UPC 5435400047 GPU128

Thanks Derek.
____
Axel

I was offered a 7572000013 and S2P100. Those #'s are obviously different than the ones Derek posted. This would mean that this is not what I am looking for, unless there are other also valid UPC codes out there. Could anybody confirm, please?

TIA!

_____
Axel

S2P100 is the right model number, but I can't vouch for whether that UPC is right.

After using the Spyder2Pro to properly calibrate my LCD HDTV, I am curious if anyone has thought up a good way to use the device to calibrate inputs besides for the dvd player component video input, and VGA input. I would especially like to calibrate the component or dvi input used by the cable box, but attaching the dvd player to the other component video would not give accurate numbers I assume. Anyone have any advice or ideas I am overlooking?

After using the Spyder2Pro to properly calibrate my LCD HDTV, I am curious if anyone has thought up a good way to use the device to calibrate inputs besides for the dvd player component video input, and VGA input. I would especially like to calibrate the component or dvi input used by the cable box, but attaching the dvd player to the other component video would not give accurate numbers I assume. Anyone have any advice or ideas I am overlooking?
This is where this can get expensive since the best way to do this is with a signal generator (cheapest one with component and DVI: ~$1400). However, to do DVI, all that you really need is a PC and some patience with the Paint program that comes with Windows. If you want to do HD analog component, then you can get this:

http://bkprecision.com/www/np_searchmodel7.asp?lf=HDTV+Pattern+Generator

With some attendant issues: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-452450.html

Or get a copy of DVE on D-VHS and a D-VHS deck. None of these are perfect, but they will do in a pinch. ;)

Later,
Bill

The idea that I would need a signal generator was my initial thought. I have wondered though, when an ISF technician calibrates a particular input with a generator, how will that give the best picture possible when using an HD DVR for example? I would think that a calibration with the signal generator would give you the best possible image quality for the signal generator. My last thought was that a computer could be used with a adapter to turn the signal into HDMI which could then be put into the television, and also into the receiver which could output component video to the tv. Then, calibration images could be sent over the two signals and then analyzed and calibrated. Just a thought...

S2P100 is the right model number, but I can't vouch for whether that UPC is right.

Thanks Bill!
I guess, I should not take my chances in this case - there will be other opportunities... :)

______
Axel

Axel....not sure it will help...but I just picked up the spydertv and it has the same numbers on the box as yours with the exception of the last digit...the last number on mine is 8 but all the others are the same....cheers

The idea that I would need a signal generator was my initial thought. I have wondered though, when an ISF technician calibrates a particular input with a generator, how will that give the best picture possible when using an HD DVR for example? I would think that a calibration with the signal generator would give you the best possible image quality for the signal generator. My last thought was that a computer could be used with a adapter to turn the signal into HDMI which could then be put into the television, and also into the receiver which could output component video to the tv. Then, calibration images could be sent over the two signals and then analyzed and calibrated. Just a thought...
If your receiver can turn HDMI into analog component, then this is probably not a bad choice since it is probably your last link in your analog signal chain. If you have a DVR, however, you can record some of the test patterns that get played (e.g., HDNet) and use those (I've never bothered).

The problem with all of this, and why calibrators use the signal generators, is that most people have more than one source component outputting analog video, and not all of them can generate test patterns. Thus, you use the generator to make sure that the basic calibration is good, and ignore the variability in each source.

In an ideal universe, all of our source components could output good quality test signals to properly calibrate the signal chain. However, we live in a far from perfect world! ;)

One final thought: many video processors can output test signals. One I am fond of, since I own it, is the Lumagen Vision HDP. Highly recommended both as a VP and as a calibration tool. However, a used one runs $1k.

Later,
Bill

If your receiver can turn HDMI into analog component, then this is probably not a bad choice since it is probably your last link in your analog signal chain. If you have a DVR, however, you can record some of the test patterns that get played (e.g., HDNet) and use those (I've never bothered).

The problem with all of this, and why calibrators use the signal generators, is that most people have more than one source component outputting analog video, and not all of them can generate test patterns. Thus, you use the generator to make sure that the basic calibration is good, and ignore the variability in each source.

In an ideal universe, all of our source components could output good quality test signals to properly calibrate the signal chain. However, we live in a far from perfect world! ;)

One final thought: many video processors can output test signals. One I am fond of, since I own it, is the Lumagen Vision HDP. Highly recommended both as a VP and as a calibration tool. However, a used one runs $1k.

Later,
Bill

I have both the HBO and HDNET signals that they send every so often over the air stored on my HDDVR for occasional tweaking. However, I really noticed a difference when I did some tuning of the grayscale with the aide of the Spyder2Pro (there had been some previous red push). It would be much more beneficial if the cable companies sent IRE steps instead of the typical contrast and brightness adjustment screens, maybe they could send "pro" signals out once a month for us DIY'ers. For some critical viewing, I have taken all of my devices and plugged them into the receiver and then into the one component video input that I calibrated with my DVD player, Avia, and S2Pro. The picture quality on the dvr, xbox 360 (seems a little dark for games), and ps2 seem to be pretty good. I think they appear closer to the "perfect" quality I encourage myself of obtaining. I plan on at least taking a stab at calibrating the dvi input with either an upconverting dvd player or the pc in the near future.

For the time being, I was thinking about the variable image qualities Bill mentioned in different devices. This variable on my current input obviously depends on the intricacies (labeled as X) of the original dvd player, and the non calibrated device (labeled as Y). Therefore my maximum variation from "perfect conditions" when using a non calibrated device is abs. val.(X)+ abs.val.(Y), and therefore my minimum variation is Abs.Val(X-Y) or 0. Heres hoping that my devices are similar in that respect. :)

Axel....not sure it will help...but I just picked up the spydertv and it has the same numbers on the box as yours with the exception of the last digit...the last number on mine is 8 but all the others are the same....cheers


Now I got an offer for UPC 8 75720 00013 1 S2P100. This one as an "8" in front, but again I am still not sure what it is.
This endeavor is getting rather frustrating! I have contacted Colorvision via their website for clarification but no response so far.

Anybody recognizes this UPC??
______
Axel

I am not that computer savy and would like someone to give me instructions on how to do this command line in order to get the x,y,Y data from the spydertv I just purchased...I am running windows xp...thanks

I am not that computer savy and would like someone to give me instructions on how to do this command line in order to get the x,y,Y data from the spydertv I just purchased...I am running windows xp...thanks
See the appendix in mine, er, um, Ursa's, yeah, Ursa's calibration guide. It has some screen captures in addition to step-by-step text. From what I hear. :D

Thanks...I did read it and believe I followed the guide but I keep getting the message the file cannot be found when clicking continue after inserting the path with the support added at end of line....forgive me if this is a stupid question but does the spydertv software have to running...??

Thanks...I did read it and believe I followed the guide but I keep getting the message the file cannot be found when clicking continue after inserting the path with the support added at end of line....forgive me if this is a stupid question but does the spydertv software have to running...??
To create a new shortcut, it does not technically matter whether the SpyderTV software is running or not. Since the STV software tends to maximize itself, though, you probably do want to have it off so that you have unfettered access to your desktop.

Double-check the text in your shortcut in the "Target" field. You should have something that looks very similar to this:

"C:\Program Files\SpyderTV\SpyderTV.exe" /support

If so, then you have me at a complete loss. Lee Bailey posted earlier, though, that you can hold down the control and alternate keys while typing "sierra" (sans quotes in this case) once you have the STV app running.

Axel - I'm not trying to ignore you, but I just don't have any boxes lying around to check.

Later,
Bill

Axel, the first and last digits in a 12 digit UPC code are overhead digits so as long as the the center 10 are the same, then you are good.

Many thanks...the sierra thing worked beautifully.....appreciate your patience....Cheers!

Im hoping people still check this forum, as its popularity has certainly dropped some. While taking measurements from my display, I noticed something odd when taking readings with both the 10 and 20 IRE windows. Utilizing radars spreadsheet, the relative level of green skyrockets off the page under the 20%, but then levels off just like the other two colors. Changing the green settings a lot in the user menu would bring the peak down, but would mess everything else up. Counter-changing of the other colors could never level it off.

My question is whether the Spyder2Pro is not very accurate with the 10 and 20 IRE windows, or are diplays unable of getting the relative RGB in this section as accurate as the remaining IRE Windows.

I have noticed that when other people post their relative levels, it seems as if they all have the three lines merging close together near the 20 mark....

well, it has been mentioned many times that the spyder is not very accurate below 30 IRE. I have noticed the same inaccuracy at the low voltage levels (10-20 IRE) when self-calibrating my grayscale utilizing the spyder2pro as well.

Im hoping people still check this forum, as its popularity has certainly dropped some. While taking measurements from my display, I noticed something odd when taking readings with both the 10 and 20 IRE windows. Utilizing radars spreadsheet, the relative level of green skyrockets off the page under the 20%, but then levels off just like the other two colors. Changing the green settings a lot in the user menu would bring the peak down, but would mess everything else up. Counter-changing of the other colors could never level it off.

My question is whether the Spyder2Pro is not very accurate with the 10 and 20 IRE windows, or are diplays unable of getting the relative RGB in this section as accurate as the remaining IRE Windows.

I have noticed that when other people post their relative levels, it seems as if they all have the three lines merging close together near the 20 mark....
For UHP lamp-based displays, you will typically see a big divergence at low light levels, but 20IRE sounds a bit high. What type of display do you have and what is the light level the meter is returning?

Later,
Bill

Its a 32 inch lcd panel from sony... I am unsure what data you are asking for exactly, but I noticed that at 10 and 20 IRE, the color temp was 9000 and 7000 respectively, then would level off near 6500K +-100 for the rest of the windows. When changing the drive and cut settings in the service menu, I would notice changes at these levels, but it would take drastic changes to the cuts and drives. I could post the graph if that would be a better explanation.

Its a 32 inch lcd panel from sony... I am unsure what data you are asking for exactly, but I noticed that at 10 and 20 IRE, the color temp was 9000 and 7000 respectively, then would level off near 6500K +-100 for the rest of the windows. When changing the drive and cut settings in the service menu, I would notice changes at these levels, but it would take drastic changes to the cuts and drives. I could post the graph if that would be a better explanation.
With an LCD panel, I'd be really surprised if the light level at 20% were low enough to fall outside the Spyders sensor range. It might be low enough for ambient light to impact it, though. Have you seen a review or other calibration from this model of family of models?

Feel free to post the graph, but we are treading close to my "not supporting Shawn's work" rule... :)

Later,
Bill

With an LCD panel, I'd be really surprised if the light level at 20% were low enough to fall outside the Spyders sensor range. It might be low enough for ambient light to impact it, though. Have you seen a review or other calibration from this model of family of models?

Feel free to post the graph, but we are treading close to my "not supporting Shawn's work" rule... :)

Later,
Bill

Yeah, I realize your desire to stay separated with Shawn's spreadsheet and all, the only problem is that you are the most knowledgable person about this topic in the forum. You've got to be getting close to finishing up the work and documentation on your edition of the spreadsheet, which I would love to get my hands on. Anyway, its the KDL-32S2000 from Sony, and the only review I have been able to read is from CNET and it just noted that colors out of the box were better than average as far as accuracy goes.

Looking over my final calibration results, the 20 IRE window throws a wrench into an otherwise nearly perfect calibration. Both the x and y data from the xyY meter vary 0.003 after the 20 IRE mark, but at the mark, the data jumps .17 in x, and .12 in y. The color temperature also dropped nearly 1000 points below standard. Maybe its a bad sensor, and I should return it for an exchange since all of the other points seem to fall into place.

I've attached the basic relative RGB graph to show the spike at 20, along with the Gamma Curve. I also thought it was noteworthy to supply the DeltaE vs D65 to further show how large this odd jump is.

RGB graph/data (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/RGB.JPG?uniq=js6x79)

Gamma graph (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/Gamma.JPG?uniq=js6x6l)

DeltaE (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/deltaE.JPG?uniq=js6xf5)

Bill, I really appreciate your input so far, and if I have stepped over that thin line I was tight rope walking before, please just pm me and I can let you stay focused on more pertinent topics.

You've got to be getting close to finishing up the work and documentation on your edition of the spreadsheet, which I would love to get my hands on.
Derek Smith has already left a teaser in his thread, but we are targeting July 1, give or take, to nail down v2.0. We will have full interoperability with ANY VERSION OF SPYDER2. However, I do still strongly recommend using either the STV or S2PRO, though (most people will want the "improved" sensor). However, from a grayscale standpoint, the differences won't matter. No more having to transcribe numbers, and no real risk of Colorvision being able to change a window or font and break the functionality. I will, of course, be supporting it fully elsewhere (announcement when it comes), to the extent my day job allows me. Yes, it will be a commercial product, so this is about the last I will say on the subject here.

Looking over my final calibration results, the 20 IRE window throws a wrench into an otherwise nearly perfect calibration. Both the x and y data from the xyY meter vary 0.003 after the 20 IRE mark, but at the mark, the data jumps .17 in x, and .12 in y. The color temperature also dropped nearly 1000 points below standard. Maybe its a bad sensor, and I should return it for an exchange since all of the other points seem to fall into place.
With the black level you have, I would be concerned about ALL of the measurements if the sensor were bad. To even start worrying about low-light accuracy issues, you need to be <1.0cd/m^2, which your 0 and 10 meaurement qualify, but your 20 does not. Are you running the STV? If so, have you increased the exposure time for these measurements?

I've attached the basic relative RGB graph to show the spike at 20, along with the Gamma Curve. I also thought it was noteworthy to supply the DeltaE vs D65 to further show how large this odd jump is.

RGB graph/data (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/RGB.JPG?uniq=js6x79)

Gamma graph (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/Gamma.JPG?uniq=js6x6l)

DeltaE (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/deltaE.JPG?uniq=js6xf5)

Bill, I really appreciate your input so far, and if I have stepped over that thin line I was tight rope walking before, please just pm me and I can let you stay focused on more pertinent topics.
In looking at your graphs, and with you having said that you have to make some pretty significant changes to the green brightness to get it to move, I am still hung up on either a display limitation or ambient light pollution.

If I look at what the guys at Secrets got for the Sceptre 37", your results aren't out of line:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/sceptre-37-inch-lcd-hdtv-11-2005-part-2.html
Looking at what Sony LCD review I could find, I'm still seeing something similar:
http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/106sony/index2.html
Of course, the latter only gives us color temp and gamut, so it is much harder to see what's going on there.

Checking a few WSR reviews gives me also adds some evidence to the thought that what you have may be a good calibration for a direct view LCD (a 37" Sharp had a dE of 8 at 20% and 34 at 10% after calibration). If we can't nail down the ambient light pollution issue...

Later,
Bill

Derek Smith has already left a teaser in his thread, but we are targeting July 1, give or take, to nail down v2.0. We will have full interoperability with ANY VERSION OF SPYDER2. However, I do still strongly recommend using either the STV or S2PRO, though (most people will want the "improved" sensor). However, from a grayscale standpoint, the differences won't matter. No more having to transcribe numbers, and no real risk of Colorvision being able to change a window or font and break the functionality. I will, of course, be supporting it fully elsewhere (announcement when it comes), to the extent my day job allows me. Yes, it will be a commercial product, so this is about the last I will say on the subject here.


With the black level you have, I would be concerned about ALL of the measurements if the sensor were bad. To even start worrying about low-light accuracy issues, you need to be <1.0cd/m^2, which your 0 and 10 meaurement qualify, but your 20 does not. Are you running the STV? If so, have you increased the exposure time for these measurements?


In looking at your graphs, and with you having said that you have to make some pretty significant changes to the green brightness to get it to move, I am still hung up on either a display limitation or ambient light pollution.

If I look at what the guys at Secrets got for the Sceptre 37", your results aren't out of line:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/sceptre-37-inch-lcd-hdtv-11-2005-part-2.html
Looking at what Sony LCD review I could find, I'm still seeing something similar:
http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/106sony/index2.html
Of course, the latter only gives us color temp and gamut, so it is much harder to see what's going on there.

Checking a few WSR reviews gives me also adds some evidence to the thought that what you have may be a good calibration for a direct view LCD (a 37" Sharp had a dE of 8 at 20% and 34 at 10% after calibration). If we can't nail down the ambient light pollution issue...

Later,
Bill

I have been using spyder2pro for all of the measurements, but as for the ambient light issue... Are you suggesting that I make the room darker to try and get a more accurate reading? During my last calibration, it was around 11pm and the only lights on in the room were the screen of the laptop being used for the sensor, and a small 15 inch lcd monitor from a desktop computer across the room. I could easily turn off the desktop computer next time, but could that small of a monitor have that large of an affect on the reading?

I wouldn't want to be satisfied with this calibration unless the possible problem around 20IRE is not going to be a visible issue. I could try cranking down on green and then in return cranking up on red and blue to try and flatten out the green slope... If anyone has any suggestion there, I wouldn't mind hearing them.

Finally, I have not seen many RGB graphs or Delta E graphs, so I am curious on whether the calibration I have achieved so far (past 20IRE) is a decent one?

Your Delta E is quite good from 30 on up, but you will see errors in your shadow details (somewhat muddy).

Would it be worth trying to turn the backlight down or brightness up to remedy this? Or will the current problem at 20IRE be proportional at different backlight and brightness settings?

Would it be worth trying to turn the backlight down or brightness up to remedy this? Or will the current problem at 20IRE be proportional at different backlight and brightness settings?
You can try changing the backlight, since it may be non-linear in its light output. However, I'd be skeptical of Sony's quality control if I saw too much change in colorimetry here. You might see a lower dE if the light is non-linear, since dE* is dependent upon relative light levels. If your white point doesn't fall as fast as the black, your contrast not only goes up, but your dE goes down. Exciting, huh? Of course, this does indicate a manufacturing or design issue, but if it works, hey, why not take it! :eek:

Later,
Bill

Hi guys,

I have used the spreadsheet & the S2XYy tool for some time now. Thanks guys. Great work!

Allthough, things can always be simplified... ;)

I managed to chart some of the API for the CVSpyder.dll file. The file is used by the Spyder2Pro application to communicate with the Spyder2 meter and is downloadable (with the Spyder2Pro app) from colorvisions website.

One interesting find was that the expsure time could be set when taking measurements. :)

I made a tiny VB6-app upon the base of my findings which use the spyder2 to take XYZ (XYy) readings. Exposure time is selectable in the application. Readings are "saved" in a list and easily cut'n pasted into the spreadsheet.

You can select between LCD/PROJ and CRT (as in the colorimeter tool), but the CRT option does not seem to give correct readings at the moment... I'll look into it.

Make sure that your CVSpyder.dll file resides in the same directory as the application or in the system PATH. (eg winnt/system32).

The app is pretty straight forward. Make sure the spyder2 is connected to an USB port. Fire up the application (prjS2.exe). The communication with Spyder2 is setup during startup hence the application might take about 5 seconds until it's visible. Press the Initialize button when the application window is up. You can change exposure time if you like, The exposuretime is deafulted to 300 ("300 what" u might ask? Don't ask, I have no idea. 300 is the value that the colorimeter use). You're now ready to take measurements.

Happy measuring! :)

EDIT:
New version posted. Attached sreenshot.
Added:
* Custom Templates for "automated" measurements with application generated testpatterns. (woohaa! for htpc users)

Planned:
* Support for "external" testpatterns in templates
* Better data presentation
* Single step execution on allready measured step.
* Fix the problem with mesurements in CRT-Mode. EDIT>CRT Mode seems to work when using v4.0.0.7 of CVSpyder.dll <EDIT

Known bugs:
Oh, yeah.... but mostly cosmetic ones ;)
/EDIT

EDIT Again:
Almost immediately after post I found a bug on reading blue. Fixed and uploaded.
/EDIT

// Lyckman

I tried Lyckmans application last night. It seems to be right on par with the measurements made by the Colorvision colorimeter and it's really easy to use.
Just do the measurements, copy and paste into the Excel-sheet. Done!
Really great little application. :)
I just put the app in the same directory as the Spyder2 app.
A full DVE 20-100 IRE measurement takes just takes a minute or two now. :D

These are the latest measurements made from my back-projecting Sony 1292Q CRT-projector btw:

20 0,3138 0,3248 1,381
40 0,3084 0,3318 5,339
60 0,3061 0,3291 13,161
80 0,309 0,3286 25,177
100 0,3122 0,3281 40,464

:)

and gamma 2.57

Very nice....

Would be nice to have "presets" mentioning the standard IRE steps 0, 10, 20, 30...100 in a vertical column. And with this an option to select a certain row in the measured data with a "remeasure" button...in this way it would be possible to improve certain readings while shifting the slider...

Any chanc this little program could be linked to the free downloadable testpattern program datacolor provides for colorfact purposes..In that way the testpatterns could be generated from that program and your utility can grab the measured data. (see -> Datacolor ColorFacts Professional Test Patterns)

Just some thoughts...couldnt resist ;)

Very nice....

Would be nice to have "presets" mentioning the standard IRE steps 0, 10, 20, 30...100 in a vertical column. And with this an option to select a certain row in the measured data with a "remeasure" button...in this way it would be possible to improve certain readings while shifting the slider...

Thanks. :)
Good idea. How about this; The way it works now would be some kind of "free measure mode". I could implement some kind of "Template measure mode" where you could predefine the number of readings (and also exposure time for each reading). After measurements, any reading can be selected and remeasured.


Any chanc this little program could be linked to the free downloadable testpattern program datacolor provides for colorfact purposes..In that way the testpatterns could be generated from that program and your utility can grab the measured data. (see -> Datacolor ColorFacts Professional Test Patterns)

Just some thoughts...couldnt resist ;)
I have thought about doing something like that to make it easier for htpc users to do measurements. Allthough, the cf testpatterns is created by the program in runtime, hence not easily accessible. It's up to me to create my own (I'll refuse to "macro-program" the interface). To create testpatterns is quite a simple task though. :)

The testpatterns could then be used in conjunction with the above idea to do fully automated measurements to your own specs.

Any thoughts before I set it in motion? :)

// Lyckman

For the patterns could be 2 options:

1 "Internal patterns" (inserted in your prog.)
2 Option of having external patterns by which the user pops in a test dvd on the first 0IRE testpattern (AVIA/DVE/Finzel?GetGrey) and your program only triggers the disc by a "next chapter". The additional info the program needs to know is the total number of testpatterns (5 for the DVE, 10 for the others).

While running first the SP2 application needs to be up front and the DVD-player software (for me prefered TT) is in the background. After the "start" the application goes to the background and the DVD player applic. is up front until the last measurement..

You can always PM me for debugging or additional thoughts ;)

Ive posted a new version of the S2FLy utility in my initial post on this page (#791). Would link it if I could but I havnt earned enough avs-credzzz yet! :P
I'll try to keep the versioning in that post...

Cheers! :)

// Lyckman

Hi, I think I read this forum right. I just bought a Spydertv and I already have the spyder2 pro software. So I should be good for my home rear Projection TV and my computer lcd monitor now. Is that right?

So I have a new Spdertv colorimeter and software and spyder2 pro software.

The colorimeter should work on both screens now that I have both software?

Thanks for your help.

Thought I would post again with the results of another run of calibration. I managed to tweak the KDL-32S2000 a little more, and I think the results are pretty astounding. My Delta E is more acceptable, and besides for the odd green value at 10IRE, the RGB graph is pretty good. I will just leave some pictures so people can look instead of hearing me ramble on. If anyone has any suggestions on further improvements or tweaks I could make, please feel free to comment...

Calibration Data (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/data.JPG?uniq=jsdyrd)

RGB graph (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/RGB2.JPG?uniq=jsdyt7)

Gamma curves (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/gamma2.JPG?uniq=jsdysd)

DeltaE and Color Temp (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bmrowe/deltaecolortemp.JPG?uniq=jsdyrp)

Hi, I think I read this forum right. I just bought a Spydertv and I already have the spyder2 pro software. So I should be good for my home rear Projection TV and my computer lcd monitor now. Is that right?

So I have a new Spdertv colorimeter and software and spyder2 pro software.

The colorimeter should work on both screens now that I have both software?

Yes, you should be fine.

This looks very nice Lyckman! I look forward to playing with it during my next calibration session!

How difficult would it be to also provide a dll with access to the VB class/form directly? It would be great to be able to access it from VBA directly ... that way it can be integrated into Excel and also allow one to write macros that take readings, decompose them, make suggestions, etc.!

I have a new load of calibration equipment coming (light meters and a pattern generator) so that I can get out and test the various models of Spyder2 with displays that I don't own (none of my friends have HD!) with the new product. It came along much faster than I had feared. If folks in the Houston area want me to come play with their sets on weekends, please PM me for details. I prefer inside the loop, but am willing to drive a bit. If you are in Huntsville, I appreciate the invitation, but I must respectfully decline the 2+ hour drive each way.


Later,
Bill

.... If you are in Huntsville, I appreciate the invitation, but I must respectfully decline the 2+ hour drive each way. ...


Darn!!
Sounds like Metro Detroit is out of the question then.... :( ;)

BTW, I just bought a Spyder2Pro off eBay. I should get it sometime next week. (Hopefully my new Ruby will have shown up by then as well.)

____
Axel

If you go to the colorvision euro web site they have the spces for the Spyder2's in all the CV packages. What it says is the Spyder2 in all the packages has the same specs. Note they still may calibrate to a higher spec but these are the mins:

Performance
Dynamic Range Black point: 0.02 cd/m2
White point: >5,000 cd/m2t
Accuracy (CRT) Luminance: Y: typical +/- 1.5%,
Chroma x,y: typical +/- 0.0020
Accuracy (LCD) Luminance: Y: typical +/- 1.5%,
Chroma x,y: typical +/- 0.0035
Repeatability Luminance: Y: Less than +/- 1.0%,
Chroma x,y: Less than +/- 0.0010
Inter-Instrument Agreement
(CRT and LCD) Luminance: Y: typical +/- 1.5%,
Chroma x,y: typical +/- 0.0016

Derek, what does this tell us compared to something like a Gretag colorimeter?

I don't know Bill should be able to tell us with his testing.

My point was that the Spyder2 colorimeter that is included with all CV products is the same by spec.

Understood, but since this is the first time Colorvision (to my knowledge) has published performance specs it got me curious about what the numbers tell us.

Compare vs. the published specs of the EyeOne Pro:

Measurement range: 0.2 - 300cd.m^2
xy: +/-0.002
Repeatability: <0.1 dE(1994)
Inter-instrument agreement: <0.4 dE (1994)

http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/downloads/100_Eye-One%20Brochure-en.pdf

The key thing to note is that they are only specifying accuracy for CRT and LCD flat panel. Other display types are likely to be much worse. Here is some real world experience with this instrument on DLP.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7456718&&#post7456718

and don't confuse *typical* with guaranteed accuracy. I saw the specs of a sensor lately that said typical deltaE < 3..5, but there where single measurments with deltaE-values above 7 and one even above 14. At least the manufacturer supplied the data :)

The key thing to note is that they are only specifying accuracy for CRT and LCD flat panel. Other display types are likely to be much worse. Here is some real world experience with this instrument on DLP.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7456718&&#post7456718
Would you like me to quote William Phelps' views on the EyeOne?

The EyeOne should be more accurate because it is a more expensive sensor. That being said, I have yet to see even you go through even a shadow of a scientifically defensible methodology for proving this garbage you keep bringing up. Do I believe the EyeOne is more accurate? Within its sweetspot, you bet. Have I seen anyone other than me go through the hassle of putting together a multiple reading test? No. Not even you, despite your background in QC. Sorry to rant, but we've gone round on this before, and your website still includes the same single sample "test", sans luminance information, that you've had for what? A year?

Oh, yeah, I still await an explanation other than "Y <> Y" for how luminance accuracy does not impact xy accuracy. Finally, leaving me off of your product update e-mails isn't terribly neighborly, either.

Later,
Bill

Would you like me to quote William Phelps' views on the EyeOne?

The EyeOne should be more accurate because it is a more expensive sensor. That being said, I have yet to see even you go through even a shadow of a scientifically defensible methodology for proving this garbage you keep bringing up. Do I believe the EyeOne is more accurate? Within its sweetspot, you bet. Have I seen anyone other than me go through the hassle of putting together a multiple reading test? No. Not even you, despite your background in QC. Sorry to rant, but we've gone round on this before, and your website still includes the same single sample "test", sans luminance information, that you've had for what? A year?

Oh, yeah, I still await an explanation other than "Y <> Y" for how luminance accuracy does not impact xy accuracy. Finally, leaving me off of your product update e-mails isn't terribly neighborly, either.

Later,
Bill

Bill,

Now I remembered why I stopped posting in this thread. Please continue without me. I posted this a while back, but you ignored it before so I guess you will now as well. This test is for a light level at the very low end of where I would use the Eye-One. At higher light levels things are much better.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5997199&#post5997199

I am not sure why I owe you an explanation on luminance versus color accuracy since you are espousing a sensor here that by definition has poor luminance accuracy for anything with screen gain.

I don't send out product update emails. Users can download new versions of my software when they like from my FTP server. I will send you the information on how to if it stopped working for you. Just email me for the information. My FTP server was moved by my ISP a while back.

To get this thread back on track from Jeff and my long-standing "is it accurate or not" jag, I am opening up the beta for CalMAN v2.0 to those interested. Please see details at:

www.datapopuli.com/ht/

You can discuss this product at www.datapopuli.com/forums (as well as all things calibration related).

Thanks! This is the last post I will make here on the beta.

Bill

Bill, I would post in datapopuli, but it seems I can't. I registered and after getting the registration email tried to access the forum. Got a message saying only moderators could read topics in that forum.

My apologies to all for using this thread for this purpose.

Yes I also had the same response after registering...I do have a question...this new software thats available will it be something that will make greyscale,gamma,brightness,contrast more automated than the spreadsheets that are available here on the forum...cheers

Bill, I would post in datapopuli, but it seems I can't. I registered and after getting the registration email tried to access the forum. Got a message saying only moderators could read topics in that forum.

My apologies to all for using this thread for this purpose.
Let me check the configuration. Sorry about that!

Yes I also had the same response after registering...I do have a question...this new software thats available will it be something that will make greyscale,gamma,brightness,contrast more automated than the spreadsheets that are available here on the forum...cheers
No more transcribing. You click a button, we take a measurement. When you are done with a run, we tell you what to do with it (mostly - that last part is still experimental).

I created a "forum support" forum to discuss my lack of admin knowledge. :o I'd request keeping any further discussion on-topic here. Thanks!

(There's nothing I can see in the config that should keep a registered user from posting)

With Bear5k's permission, I'd like to ask if there are folks out there that are interested in using the DTP-94 sensor (aka Monaco OPTIX XR)? From what I can tell the spec's are similar between these two devices in terms of accuracy. The only real difference is that the DTP-94 autoranges which means it automagically determines the exposure time so that at low light you don't have to manually set the exposure like needs to be done with the Spyder2 sensor.

If you've checked out the CalMAN site and the associated forums you'll see that the DTP-94 is next on the list to be supported behind the Spyder2. Let me know, via PM, if you'd like to get one of these sensors and I can provide contact info to an x-rite authorized e-tailer. Note that there is an x-rite freeware tool that will allow one to manually take measurements while DTP-94 support is finalized in CalMAN.

Best,
jeff

Jeff, do you have a price on that sensor?

tonypony, you have pm.

jeff

I'd like to know the price as well....

jim

There sounds like there is some interest in the DTP94 sensor. Maybe enough to justify its own thread... ;)

heck of a post guys, thanks for the excelent work done. now, is there an easy way to decide if the Spyder is worth ? I already have the AVIA, but confess it is a huge pain in the neck for non-deep-enthusiastics like myself to go through the process. Quite frankly I could also use the $250 thereabouts for something else. If I invest enough time and effort on the AVIA, there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to manually get pretty close to what Spyder would do automatically, right ? I mean, if done seriouslly, the percentage of improvement does not justify the price tag for a device to be used every other quarter, if not once a year... does it ? thx

What's required to get SpyderTV authorized?

I'm still mumbling about how Milori required that you contact them (if I remember right, with the computer connected to the pj and the pj power on) to get the system (for the Hitachi SX5500) authorized. It was like the customer was the enemy. Sure enough, although I kept the old computer specifically for this use, and still have the same projector, I can no longer use my $400 calibration software.

Contacting Colorvision via support on their web site has resulted in deafening silence.

My head's spinning with all this tech talk about SpyderTV but, with the /support function, I may be willing to try and convince the wife that we need to change calibration software. Hopefully they now have a better way to protect their product.

heck of a post guys, thanks for the excelent work done. now, is there an easy way to decide if the Spyder is worth ? I already have the AVIA, but confess it is a huge pain in the neck for non-deep-enthusiastics like myself to go through the process. Quite frankly I could also use the $250 thereabouts for something else. If I invest enough time and effort on the AVIA, there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to manually get pretty close to what Spyder would do automatically, right ? I mean, if done seriouslly, the percentage of improvement does not justify the price tag for a device to be used every other quarter, if not once a year... does it ? thx

You would be using the spyder in conjunction with Avia or another calibration disc in order to receive xyY data from the sensor. If you feel that Avia is too involved for you, I would avoid bothering with any of the sensors since it requires a bit more knowledge of what you are doing.

If I invest enough time and effort on the AVIA, there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to manually get pretty close to what Spyder would do automatically, right ?
With a trained eye and an optical comparator (basically a grayscale card and a D65 light), you can get close to what you can do with instrumentation.

I mean, if done seriouslly, the percentage of improvement does not justify the price tag for a device to be used every other quarter, if not once a year... does it ? thx
This is absolutely a subjective question. If you are satisfied with what AVIA, et al., gives you, then don't look into this forum ever again. Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy. It's all up to you, because frankly, you're the one that needs to live with it and enjoy it. (emphasis on that last part!)

Later,
Bill

What's required to get SpyderTV authorized?

I'm still mumbling about how Milori required that you contact them (if I remember right, with the computer connected to the pj and the pj power on) to get the system (for the Hitachi SX5500) authorized. It was like the customer was the enemy. Sure enough, although I kept the old computer specifically for this use, and still have the same projector, I can no longer use my $400 calibration software.

Contacting Colorvision via support on their web site has resulted in defening silence.

My head's spinning with all this tech talk about SpyderTV but, with the /support function, I may be willing to try and convince the wife that we need to change calibration software. Hopefully they now have a better way to protect their product.
Nothing. There is no authorization for the STV. You plug in the License Key they give you when you install and you are good to go. No more per computer licenses from them.

Later,
Bill

"Nothing. There is no authorization for the STV. You plug in the License Key they give you when you install and you are good to go. No more per computer licenses from them."

Thanks, Bill That's good news.

Gary - I'm assuming you have DILArd?

Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy.Sigged! ;)

That's a compliment I've never had! :)

And I'm about to get paid, I'm curious if the SpyderTV colormeter is worth the money?(avia backordered and i have 20 hours in with my uncle a contractor and i will easily put in 10-hours this weekend)I want the colormeter because I just seem incapable of finding a setting i like for longer then a couple hours....my latest gripe is dingy white on all color temperatures so i resort to High to ease the dingyness.

What I am worried about though is how do all the ISF's use these things and with what programs to set color temperature? and those triangle graphs that show you how accurate you're colors are? I mean I'd love to drop some cash and haul UMR or Mr Bob out here but i don't have $400+ to do it

__________________

And I'm about to get paid, I'm curious if the SpyderTV colormeter is worth the money?(avia backordered and i have 20 hours in with my uncle a contractor and i will easily put in 10-hours this weekend)I want the colormeter because I just seem incapable of finding a setting i like for longer then a couple hours....my latest gripe is dingy white on all color temperatures so i resort to High to ease the dingyness.

What I am worried about though is how do all the ISF's use these things and with what programs to set color temperature? and those triangle graphs that show you how accurate you're colors are? I mean I'd love to drop some cash and haul UMR or Mr Bob out here but i don't have $400+ to do it.
If you are just looking for a disc to do basic brightness/contrast, then the GetGray disc is always in stock. This disc is also a good choice if you are going to tackle grayscale eventually. I have thoughts on grayscale as well, but those are not for this place (see above).

Later,
Bill

Well i also want my colors accurate, as well as the color temperature, brightness and contrast can simply be done on THX DVD's, no?

If i have $180, i have no problem dropping it as long as i know its going towards something that will overall please me more then a quick color filter calibration

I have multiple problems, from dingy whites to greenish yellows and i hope this could help me resolve it as well as be a tool to calibrate future sets.

This will allow me to get accurate gamma, CIE chromaticy, color balance and color temperature no?

I'm most concered with CIE chromaticy and color temperature

Well i also want my colors accurate, as well as the color temperature, brightness and contrast can simply be done on THX DVD's, no?

The THX DVDs are mastered for each individual DVD, so you want a dedicated, accurate test disc. GetGray is only $25, and it is dead-on accurate, unlike a few others.

If i have $180, i have no problem dropping it as long as i know its going towards something that will overall please me more then a quick color filter calibration

I have multiple problems, from dingy whites to greenish yellows and i hope this could help me resolve it as well as be a tool to calibrate future sets.

This will allow me to get accurate gamma, CIE chromaticy, color balance and color temperature no?

I'm most concered with CIE chromaticy and color temperature
Your white point matters more than color temperature, though many, many people use them synonmously. STV on its own does its best to help with several of these, but it lacks a certain level of control and detail that most of us prefer.

If you would like to see what it can do with the proper software, then please see my website. We will be coming out of beta in about a week (or less).

Later,
Bill

The THX DVDs are mastered for each individual DVD, so you want a dedicated, accurate test disc. GetGray is only $25, and it is dead-on accurate, unlike a few others.


Your white point matters more than color temperature, though many, many people use them synonmously. STV on its own does its best to help with several of these, but it lacks a certain level of control and detail that most of us prefer.

If you would like to see what it can do with the proper software, then please see my website. We will be coming out of beta in about a week (or less).

Later,
Bill
Nice, is the software free? Will it go through all calibrations of just certain ones? Does which datacolor sensor you even have matter with the software?

If you have any Before and After shots with a tv i would greatly appreciate it

Wait, $100.....the sensor costs $180, nvm....Thats close enough to $300, by then i could just pay for a local basic ISF calibration

But for $300 (and that would be a bargain deal for an ISF calibration depending on how many scan rates you have calibrated and how much geometry/convergence work you need), you can do more than one display and do it whenever it needs to be redone - as displays age, grayscale accuracy changes. you can also make sure that it is done correctly.

Going the route of buying a sensor and software is not really for the non-hobbiest. It requires at lease some amount of technical inclination and desire to learn about your display. It could be used casually for adjusting just the user controls, as that's the target for spyderTV. And the straight spyderTV package ($180) does come with software. The issue, if you look at the spydertv review thread, is that that approach typically doesn't provide a fool-proof method for setting brightness, contrast, color and tint.

Hope this helps to put it in some perspective for you.

Note that in the spydertv thread, the "/support" option is described that does allow one to get xyY data out fo the sensor that then can be imported into a freely available spreadsheet for analyzing color and grayscale. But since it's free, you get what you pay for. Furthermore, the /support option could disappear at any time... Also, this might be a way to "ease" into the whole calibration thing, where now the minimum buy-in is just the cost of sypderTV...

Best,
jeff

But for $300 (and that would be a bargain deal for an ISF calibration depending on how many scan rates you have calibrated and how much geometry/convergence work you need), you can do more than one display and do it whenever it needs to be redone - as displays age, grayscale accuracy changes. you can also make sure that it is done correctly.

Going the route of buying a sensor and software is not really for the non-hobbiest. It requires at lease some amount of technical inclination and desire to learn about your display. It could be used casually for adjusting just the user controls, as that's the target for spyderTV. And the straight spyderTV package ($180) does come with software. The issue, if you look at the spydertv review thread, is that that approach typically doesn't provide a fool-proof method for setting brightness, contrast, color and tint.

Hope this helps to put it in some perspective for you.

Note that in the spydertv thread, the "/support" option is described that does allow one to get xyY data out fo the sensor that then can be imported into a freely available spreadsheet for analyzing color and grayscale. But since it's free, you get what you pay for. Furthermore, the /support option could disappear at any time... Also, this might be a way to "ease" into the whole calibration thing, where now the minimum buy-in is just the cost of sypderTV...

Best,
jeff
If i NEED the support option for xyY data, and that means i couldn't cheap out and just buy a spyder2express and this guys software right

Wait, $100.....the sensor costs $180, nvm....Thats close enough to $300, by then i could just pay for a local basic ISF calibration
A new stock Spyder2Express will perform equivalently using my software to using the STV and my software. It is the meter that matters, not the software "package" around it from our perspective.

And with that, I am treading close to the line on both the integrity of this thread and Alan Gouger's admonition not to use the site for marketing. Look for a blessed announcement soon.

Later,
Bill

Ok, what are you expecting to drop the price to august 31st? Or are you gonna raise it?

Ok, what are you expecting to drop the price to august 31st? Or are you gonna raise it?
Prices will increase $50 9/1. Current pricing is "introductory".

Ballz,
I think also Bear is saying that the spyder2 sensor can be had cheaper than $180, if one doesn't need the software that comes bundled with it.

jeff

Ballz,
I think also Bear is saying that the spyder2 sensor can be had cheaper than $180, if one doesn't need the software that comes bundled with it.

jeff
Yeah i know, for the price of spyder tv i can buy spyder express and his software, actually $10 cheaper.

I will try to get money before august 31 to buy his software, as long as i do not get charged for the upgrade from beta to final functional copy I'm cool.

Yeah i know, for the price of spyder tv i can buy spyder express and his software, actually $10 cheaper.

I will try to get money before august 31 to buy his software, as long as i do not get charged for the upgrade from beta to final functional copy I'm cool.
If you register for my forum, you will see our policies and product roadmap. Believe me, I take care of my beta testers. However, we will be out of beta by next week, and there is an incentive for folks to participate. Check my site for details. Our "normal" introductory pricing will take over once we have a shipping release. Keep an ear out for more details.

I can favourably testimony on Bear5k devotion to his users.

I mean... Panasonic plasma users have got to deal with hexadecimal values in their service menus. Under specific request he added support directly for this in his program. How much cooler can you get? :)

:o

You're making me blush. We should be out of beta tomorrow, once the fog from my day trip to Atlanta clears, barring any showstoppers popping up tonight from folks doing cal fests with their sets. At which point, someone else can create the "CalMAN review thread" and rip our product apart! :)

Thanks folks, but I think this signals an end to me being able to participate as an unbiased source in a "review" of calibration products.

Later (in other threads),
Bill

excuse, is it Calman your forum?

If you register for my forum, you will see our policies and product roadmap. Believe me, I take care of my beta testers. However, we will be out of beta by next week, and there is an incentive for folks to participate. Check my site for details. Our "normal" introductory pricing will take over once we have a shipping release. Keep an ear out for more details.

Im assuming I use the greyscales from the DVE for the spreadsheet. Do I use those as well for the color values or do I use the color scale from the DVE?

For color you want to use the:

DVE Title 14:

Chapter 11 "RED 75%"
Chapter 12 "GREEN 75%"
Chapter 13 "BLUE 75%"
Chapter 14 "CYAN 75%"
Chapter 15 "MAGENTA 75%"
Chapter 16 "YELLOW 75%"

excuse, is it Calman your forum?

Yes CalMAN is Bill's product, he has setup a forum at his web site for supporting CalMAN and the Spyder2 meter. This was done so to not violate the rules of using AVS forums for commercial purposes.

For color you want to use the:

DVE Title 14:

Chapter 11 "RED 75%"
Chapter 12 "GREEN 75%"
Chapter 13 "BLUE 75%"
Chapter 14 "CYAN 75%"
Chapter 15 "MAGENTA 75%"
Chapter 16 "YELLOW 75%"

Whats with the 75%? Is the graph setup to still have correct readings from the xyz?

Whats with the 75%? Is the graph setup to still have correct readings from the xyz?

Yes you will get the correct XYZ readings. The DVE color patterns are at 75%, the only thing that matters is all 6 color patterns are the same level of intensity.

Yes you will get the correct XYZ readings. The DVE color patterns are at 75%, the only thing that matters is all 6 color patterns are the same level of intensity.

Will I be required to change the gain and bias for the colors within the service menu of my set? If so, what is the proper way for adjusting these?

Finally, explanations on how to use spidertv with DVE.....so what is the xyz for d65?
And what your saying is you take xyz readings with the spidertv while on the above mentioned DVE chapters?

Finally, explanations on how to use spidertv with DVE.....so what is the xyz for d65?
And what your saying is you take xyz readings with the spidertv while on the above mentioned DVE chapters?

If you are using the /support option with SpyderTV then you will get xyY the xy for D65 is 0.3125, 0.329.

If you are using the /support option with SpyderTV then you will get xyY the xy for D65 is 0.3125, 0.329.

And the Y is the combination of xy??

Pardon my dumb questions but i really want to learn how to put the software and hardware together to maximize these products.....so, i apologize if my questions sound mundane.....i just wish you guys[i mean the most knowledgable ones] would dumb down a how to guide for us beginner/novices....for me once i learn the system it is easier to figure out the whys and why nots later.....i just need the specific numbers and how to get there.....allthough, it is all very interesting......and before someone says read URSA"s cal guide im on my 5th reading and actually printed it out for easier reading!!!

One thing that i am disappointed in though, the spidertv is advertised as a simple cost effective tool to do basic calibrtaion like the pro's do...this is true but it is not for everyone one like the guy off the street as it's contrast measures are way out of proportion....put it like this i used spidertv on my maxent 42hpm20 and it gave me a 74 contrast 56 brightness!!! I then did DVE i got 70 brightness and 41 contrast!!!

Thanks for reading and ty to all of you for helping me learn more about something i am very passionate about....

Carlos

X Y Z are tristimulus spectral measures that matches what your eye sees, Y is that for luminance since it focuses on green which is what video also uses for luminance.

x y are normalized versions of X Y (x = X/(X+Y+Z)) - you don't need the z since it's value is implied thru the normalization once you have the Y. Just basic math to convert one to the other.

You really should read some websites on color science if you are going to calibrate greyscale - there is a lot more to it than read the sensor and greyscale automagically can be calibrated.

Ok, I tuned my setting using the SpyderTV walkthrough, then I did the gamma and color readings with DVE. My gamma appears to be way off, how do I correct this? The colors look ok, seems that I have a bit of green push.

Also, when attempting to calibrate grayscale, do I turn the color down to zero on my set?

I thought I would let folks know: CalMAN is now gold (shipping). No more beta.

Bill

ColorVision will release SpyderTV PRO around 07/30, I'm looking forward for TV PRO review.

The prices I have found was from USD$ 380 to USD$ 450 (even more in some places).

Should be a lot better since is as much as 2x expensive than SpyderTV product.

Gradius

CalMAN also a great companion to the Spyder2 Colorimeter!!!! Software works awesome!!!!

can someone do a review of calman? will it work with the spyder express hardware? how does calman compare to spydertv pro?

thanks
muncey

Here is a review in Calibrating a PE7700 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7967350&&#post7967350

And yes the meter that ships with the express package will work. In fact the Spyder2 meter is the same in all the current ColorVision packages. You do need to make sure you are not getting old stock.

can someone do a review of calman? will it work with the spyder express hardware? how does calman compare to spydertv pro?

thanks
muncey
I would suggest moving the CalMAN discussion here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=697072

Also, until the STV Pro ships, no one involved with it is able to talk about the product.

Later,
Bill

please,
what hardware difference is there among the sensor spyder_tv (TV_pro) and the spyder_2?

besides:
Spyder2 express, spyder2 suite, spyder2 pro: is the hardware the same or it changes?

thanks

The hardware in all currently shipping SpyderTV, SpyderTV Pro and Spyder2 products are the same.

The hardware in all currently shipping SpyderTV, SpyderTV Pro and Spyder2 products are the same.

Nice to see you around here Mark. Since you're checking in, maybe you can answer a question for us SpyderTV users. What is the current upgrade path from the SpyderTV to the SpyderTV PRO, and how can we take advantage of it?

Thanks,
Mark

I see that the TV PRO Version is now available at $599 quite a big price,Question is it woth the money? Any one used it yet?

hi
the TVPro version and be purchased via an upgrade path if you have already purchased STV. The Pro version adds white balance controls (gray scale). It also adds customizable reports and a client database feature. When you purchase the Pro version, it will alson include Spyder2 which is used for calibrating computers.

regards

Gregg
Datacolor product trainer, ISF Instructor

Gregg>> If one is to calibrate a setup where a 9-inch CRT projector is shooting at a back projection setup with the SpyderTVPro, what setting would one use?
I tried "CRT Back Projection" but it gave far too dark black AND white point. The gamma ended up almost at 4.0!
Using "LCD projector" with the baffle on I get more sensible results, but I'm still not sure that I'm doing it right.
The method I use to verify the calibration is by measuring "IRE" window patterns in an other application and then inserting them in an Excel-sheet that calculates gamma, dE and so on. When using that method I also set the application in "LCD-mode"...
The screen is some kind of PVC plastic material intended for back projection.

One thing that is very, very confusing is that the SpyderTVPro software NEVER tells you when to measure with the baffle and when to not... I suppose that the only time to do in without is when measuring CRT TV:s, but nothing in the documentation (that I can find) gives a hint about this..?

I'd be very greatful for some input here, I've bought both the SpyderPro and the SpyderTVPro packages. :)

Also, I should say that my primary reason for buying the TVPro was to get the ability to measure specifically a CRT back projection setup, but that doesn't seem to work at all... :(
As far as I know all CRT back projections are the same as mine with the difference that mine is quite large and home-made. :) I use a CRT-projector that shoots at a first-surface mirror that then reflects on to a special plastic sheet... That should describe a CRT back projection quite right shouldn't it? :)

hi
the TVPro version and be purchased via an upgrade path if you have already purchased STV. The Pro version adds white balance controls (gray scale). It also adds customizable reports and a client database feature. When you purchase the Pro version, it will alson include Spyder2 which is used for calibrating computers.

regards

Gregg
Datacolor product trainer, ISF Instructor

Gregg,

Thanks for the update. Do you have a link? I don't see the upgrade option on the Colorvision website.

Thanks,
Mark

hi guys

STVPro does not support front projector crt applications, nor customized rear projection displays (as you are describing). You can try to use it for such, but your mileage may vary. STVPro does support consumer RPTVs that are crt based.

All STV products (and Colorfacts) are only meant to be used with the baffle on.

To upgrade, you will have to contact Datacolor directly. Email cmcmorris@datacolor.com and tell her what you are wanting to do. She would be happy to assist you.

Regards

Gregg

Nice to see you around here Mark. Since you're checking in, maybe you can answer a question for us SpyderTV users. What is the current upgrade path from the SpyderTV to the SpyderTV PRO, and how can we take advantage of it?

Thanks,
Mark


I inquired about this and was told they would be announcing an upgrade path mid-October.

Perhaps you need to email Cindy as I have previously indicated.
cmcmorris@datacolor.com .
She can set you up with an upgrade now.

Happy tweeking!!

Gregg
Datacolor Product Trainer, ISF Instructor

STVPro does support consumer RPTVs that are crt based.


Does it do a better job than the plain Spyder TV? I have one and I just can not get my Toshiba (46HX83) to look good with it. Always too green.

Within 2 weeks, the SpyderTV to SpyderTV Pro (SW300) upgrade will be available on our web site. The SpyderTV Pro upgrade package will contain the following:

* SpyderTV Pro CD w/serial number
* SpyderTV Pro DVD (NTSC & PAL)
* Spyder2Pro CD w/serial number
* Hard Case w/molded foam

The package will include some additional materials like a quick start guide, install guide, cheat sheet, etc.

The SpyderTV Pro upgrade package will NOT include:

* Spyder2 Hardware (the hardware is unchanged from SpyderTV)
* Tripod attachment (this is also unchanged from SpyderTV)

The SpyderTV Pro upgrade package will be $370. See the web site for additional details.

I see that the TV PRO Version is now available at $599 quite a big price,Question is it woth the money? Any one used it yet?

Check out Amazon.com, they have it for less.

Spyder TV does nothing for the green in your display. It only adjusts Contrast, brightness, color and tint.

Spyder TV Pro adds gray scale measurements, this will fix the green problem.

Gregg>> Just to clarify:
The baffle should always be on when measuring anything except a computer CRT-monitor using Spyder2Pro?

ALSO: When using SpyderTVPro, is the target for the grey scale calibration part of it D65 or merely a 6500K color temperature?

to clarify...:-)

when using the STV STVPro or Colorfacts software, the baffle should always be on.

STVPro gray scale target is x 313 y 329

Ok, thanks, but how about the Spyder2Pro application? There one is instructed to remove the baffle for calibration of a CRT computer monitor - in this case the baffle should be off?
But this doesn't apply to for example CRT TV:s?
Just to get this clear... :)

Spyder TV does nothing for the green in your display. It only adjusts Contrast, brightness, color and tint.

Spyder TV Pro adds gray scale measurements, this will fix the green problem.

I was using the "/support" option while doing gray scale adjustments. I think the unit itself is ok, because I tried it on an ordinary crt and got decent results. You can read my review on message # 496 of this thread.

I heard somewhere (don't remember where) that the Spyder TV type of hardware has trouble dealing with rear view screans that have gain. Is this true? Maybe the Spyder TV Pro adjusts for this. I think I well wait for reviews before I spend more money.

Within 2 weeks, the SpyderTV to SpyderTV Pro (SW300) upgrade will be available on our web site. The SpyderTV Pro upgrade package will contain the following:

* SpyderTV Pro CD w/serial number
* SpyderTV Pro DVD (NTSC & PAL)
* Spyder2Pro CD w/serial number
* Hard Case w/molded foam

The package will include some additional materials like a quick start guide, install guide, cheat sheet, etc.

The SpyderTV Pro upgrade package will NOT include:

* Spyder2 Hardware (the hardware is unchanged from SpyderTV)
* Tripod attachment (this is also unchanged from SpyderTV)

The SpyderTV Pro upgrade package will be $370. See the web site for additional details.

Unless there is a deliberate difference put in place, I don't see the benefit over SpyderTV w/ the support option. Many forum members have contributed their time to produce test patterns and Excel conversion sheets for grayscale.

I will wait for reviews.

I agree. I've used the support function and spreadsheet to calibrate greyscale on half a dozen displays with good results. I suppose the upgrade will save buyers the trouble of inputting into the spreadsheet and if that is all is it really worth it? The one feature I am looking for is greater ease of projector calibration.

I bought SpyderTVPro a few weeks ago and just love it! I also have Calman. There are reviews over on the TVPRO review thread. One cool thing is that the TVPRO package includes Spyder2PRO software which is really useful in calibrating your video card in an HTPC if you're trying to create a profile for that card which would work best with your display device, in my case the Optoma H78DC3. The two programs work in sync with one another to arrive at the best possible images for presentations or home theatre.

I think that the upgrade would be worth it definitely. I've never seen better flesh tones than what I've been getting since I purchased this. Awesome product Colorvision! :)

Wayne

good morning all, after getting spydertv i then spent the next few hours getting the feel of it. Now comes the fun part i think. Doing just the basic steps using the spydertv wizard i was able to get the color temp to actually hit the target it's not totally on top of it but it does hit it somewhat. I have tried to read thru all the posts and it seems that everyone is of the opinion that once you have the color temp or is it grayscale set that you now move on to setting the colors for balance. is this correct? I believe that the brightness is set very close but the contrast seems high. Again it seems the majority of users feel that spydertv does not set the contrast correctly most users think that its set high is there a better way to set/check contrast? I have DVE,GETGRAY and downloaded a spreadsheet. Now can someone point me in the right direction what I need to do next? I can access support mode on the spydertv. Do I just copy the values over to the spreadsheet? after the values are copied what comes next? Next question is I'm using an OPPO 971 via dvi for this calibration. Do I have to move the OPPO to each other input to set them correctly or just copy the settings over? Input 1=DVI input 2=S-Video input 3=component. would I need to change the output of the OPPO to S-Video and then component to get the right values? Any help or ideas would be great thanks to everyone for comments.

Being new to calibration techniques, I was wondering if someone has instructions on how to use SpyderTV with GetGray or DVE? I used SpyderTV with its own software wizard, but wasn't satisfied with the contrast - it was way to high (93). Is there some other software that works with SpyderTV to do the testing? I have a Samsung HL-S7178W - just received last week and love it. Just want to make sure it is calibrated correctly. Any help would be appreciated.

hi guys

Sheldon, how did you judge "way too high". Assuming that you calibrated in the Movie mode, the contrast can usually be set up to 100 with out clipping the signal (or discoloring white).

Happy tweeking

Gregg

Gregg,

Thanks for responding. I should have clarified what my settings were. I was in Standard mode, Brightness was 60, Color was 40, Tint was 50, Sharpness was 0, Temperature was Warm2. When I say the contrast was too high it was because the display looked washed out - blacks had no sharpness and whites were dull.

Id bet a hundred bucks that your brightness control is 10-20 clicks too high. (50 is the center point correct?) Perhaps you have your DVD player set wrong?

When the brightness control is set too high, things will look very washed out, as blacks become gray and the rest of the image will look foggy.

Great Info helps me buy one

I am also running into some problems with the Spidertv on my Samsung 6187SW DLP. The first few times I tried to calibrate it set the Contrast in the 90's and the color in the 90's and the tint was way off. The last time I did it the tint and color are right on, the brightness is too low(15) and the contrast was still way to high(91).
Should I be calibrating using the normal lighting in the room(no direct lights on the screen) or in the dark?
I have my settings at warm2 which Spidertv says is what I should be using and I am in custom mode. I see also that I have mounted the spider on the tripiod incorrectly.
I am going to try to put the mount on the tripod and then the suction cup on the back of the colorimeter to get it flush to the screen better. I really would like this to work as I have 7 hdtvs to use it on. Is there any way to save settings for each tv?
Kenal0

At Costco for $179.99 according to the current email I just received from them.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11183985&cm_mmc=B2CEmail_195-_-Electronics-_-30-_-SpyderTV_B2CEmail_195

G

Using the spydertv to calibrate my Mits DLP .... Heres the results it spit out :

Blacks .281 cd/m2
Whites 116.887 cd/m2

Im new to this whole Digital theater thingy , but is that a typical contrast ratio for a DLP. Thats far off the advertised 2500:1 stated for this TV. Can anyone else post their results.

Thanks

Used SpyderTV on my Mitsubishi WD-65732 dlp hd tv and love the viewing results.
Here are my numbers

Black Luminance: 0.067 cd/m2
White Luminance: 127.204 cd/m2

Hope this helps. DVD output from Toshiba HD-XA2 via hdmi and through Denon AVR-4806ci with enhanced rgb upscaling to 1080p.

OK, I've read through most of the posts and I'm a little confused. (Of course, that's a normal state for me these days :) )

I currently own a Spyder2PRO that I purchased about 18 months ago. Is it possible to use this to calibrate my new flat panel LCD tv? It sounds like the hardware is the same but maybe I'd need different software? Is just the software purchasable seperately? I can't find any info about this on the Colorvision site.

Thanks much.

I currently own a Spyder2PRO that I purchased about 18 months ago. Is it possible to use this to calibrate my new flat panel LCD tv? It sounds like the hardware is the same but maybe I'd need different software? Is just the software purchasable seperately? I can't find any info about this on the Colorvision site.


Yes the colormeter that came with your Spyder2PRO, is the same as the one that comes with SpyderTV, and SpyderTV PRO. (But not the same as the new SpyderTV PRO 2007) And you are right, the software is the only real differences between them all. If you Email Colorvision, they should be able to tell you the price just for the software.

Also you can try out the free HCFR software to use with your Spyder2PRO colormeter, and see how that would work for you.

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php

Here is a entire thread, dedicated to the HCFR software.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8673765&&#post8673765

Another option, is the Calman calibration software. Which will also work with your Spyder colormeter.

http://www.calman.tv/

Yes the colormeter that came with your Spyder2PRO, is the same as the one that comes with SpyderTV, and SpyderTV PRO. (But not the same as the new SpyderTV PRO 2007) And you are right, the software is the only real differences between them all. If you Email Colorvision, they should be able to tell you the price just for the software.


Thanks for the response. I e-mailed Colorvision and got the following back from them:

"The methods in which the colorimeters are programmed (firmware) have different coefficients. Thus the hardware for Spyder2 does not support the SpyderTV software or vice versa."

Guess I'll take a look at the other options you suggested.

This has likely been asked here already, but will the new "cheap" Spyder Express work fine for RPTV calibration?

Thanks for the response. I e-mailed Colorvision and got the following back from them:

"The methods in which the colorimeters are programmed (firmware) have different coefficients. Thus the hardware for Spyder2 does not support the SpyderTV software or vice versa."

Guess I'll take a look at the other options you suggested.


I think whoever emailed you that information, was wrong, because the SpyderTV Pro package comes with both the SpyderTV PRO software and the the Spyder2 PRO software. And it also works with the original SpyderTV software, and some of the original SpyderTV buyers even bought just the Spyder2 software later on to use with the Spyder2 colormeter that came with their SpyderTV package. Plus a rep from Colorvison has even posted in one of the threads here, that all the Spyder2 colormeters are the same. And that it's the older pre-Spyder2 colormeters that are different. But I also would guess, the newest SpyderTV Platinum colormeters, are probably different in some way as well from both of those. So it's almost certain that the SpyderTV PRO 2007 software that they come with would not work with any of other earlier colormeters.



Anyway, try out the free HCFR software. Because it may do everything that you need. Not to mention, the price is definitely right. Just make sure you also have a copy of the needed "Spyder.dll" file, located in the same directory as the wherever you run the HCFR program from.

This has likely been asked here already, but will the new "cheap" Spyder Express work fine for RPTV calibration?


It will if you use the right software. With the software it comes with, it will not. Check out either the free HCFR or the Calman software that I mentioned earlier. Because using it with either of those calibration software programs, it will.

Does anyone know the difference between SpyderTV Pro and the new 2007 version.
Is it worth the upgrade?

hi Goss151!

the 2007 version, adds full automation for Pioneer elite and industrial plasmas, includes RS232 serial cable, USB to serial adapter, Platinum spyder, and aluminum carrying case.

The reporting function also improved, as well as some bug fixes. 2007 also includes a listing on the Datacolor calibrator website and includes 1 year of web based calibration support via the Datacolor site.

I can assist you directly with the upgrade which is $300. Give me an email at gloewen@datacolor.com

Regards

Gregg

hi Goss151!

the 2007 version, adds full automation for Pioneer elite and industrial plasmas, includes RS232 serial cable, USB to serial adapter, Platinum spyder, and aluminum carrying case.

The reporting function also improved, as well as some bug fixes. 2007 also includes a listing on the Datacolor calibrator website and includes 1 year of web based calibration support via the Datacolor site.

I can assist you directly with the upgrade which is $300. Give me an email at gloewen@datacolor.com

Regards

Gregg

Full automation aka ISFccc????

it is a c3 type of interface called "direct connect" all you have to do is change the DVD test patterns when you are directed by the software.

Will it activate Day and Night modes on the Elite?

yes...absolutely...for the elites anyways...i am not sure about the industrials as they were not designed with C3 in mind.

SOLD!!!! Well, I just need to verify that it is compatable with the upcoming 8G Pioneer Elites.

the 2007 version, adds full automation for Pioneer elite and industrial plasmas, includes RS232 serial cable, USB to serial adapter, Platinum spyder, and aluminum carrying case.

The reporting function also improved, as well as some bug fixes. 2007 also includes a listing on the Datacolor calibrator website and includes 1 year of web based calibration support via the Datacolor site.

I can assist you directly with the upgrade which is $300. Give me an email at gloewen@datacolor.com

Greg.

Are they actually even shipping yet? Because I ordered mine online via the upgrade offer on 4/5/07 direct from Datacolor, and picked the next day shipping option. I just finally got the email confirmation with a PDF receipt of the order on 4/11/07. But I still have not received the product itself. So it looks like choosing the overnight shipping option in hope of getting it right away, was more or less just a waste of the $15 extra charge I paid for overnight shipping, if they are not even shipping them yet.

SpyderTV2007 owners:
Please go here and register your product:
http://spydertvpro.com/register.php
This will allow you access to the LionAV support forum.

JohnLA, you will have to contact whom ever you purchased the product from.

Regards

Gregg

Thanks for the reply Gregg.

What has changed with the "Platinum" spyder?

D-Nice,
I just confirmed that as soon as we get the new Pioneer panels STVPro2007 will support them. 2007 already supports the currenty 1080p panel and the x40 stuff.

Gregg,

Does the Spyder TV Pro 2007 / upgrade software support other sensors i.e. EyeOne Display LT?

Goss Wrote:
Does anyone know the difference between SpyderTV Pro and the new 2007 version.
Is it worth the upgrade?

Goss, Gregg nicely hit the main differences between those two versions. Take a look at this document if you'd like to see all of the differences in those versions:http://www.colorvision.com/popup_stvpcompare.php

Steve,

SpyderTV Pro 2007 supports only the Spyder2 Platinum hardware that it ships with.

Datacolor ColorFacts Professional is our only product that supports colorimetric hardware from other manufacturers.

Goss Wrote:


Goss, Gregg nicely hit the main differences between those two versions. Take a look at this document if you'd like to see all of the differences in those versions:http://www.colorvision.com/popup_stvpcompare.php


I see under Software section that the 2007 version supports:

"Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint, Color Temp preset"

The older version of the software apparently does not. What does this mean exactly? I've been using the pre-2007 version of the package and I know that all of these items are part and parcel of the software's functions. Maybe it's the word "preset" that makes this somehow different. Can you clarify?

All 3 SpyderTV products support adjustment of Brightness contrast Color Tint and Color Temp Preset.

All 3 SpyderTV products support adjustment of Brightness contrast Color Tint and Color Temp Preset.

Well the document that Mark references comparing the SpyderTV Pro and SpyderTV 2007 says otherwise. Is it therefore in need of a "fix"?

Thank for fixing the referenced document. Just don't want to anyone else feeling they've been short changed in some way.

Sorry for thread crashing (somewhat) but since we've got a Datacolor guru here seems like the place to ask.

I've got an IN76 that (I know they're good out of the box) that I want to calibrate, calibration has sort of been a fascination of mine, and something I've always been meaning to do. I've also got a couple of LCD monitors on my desk that don't quite match.

The primary purpose of any purchase I make would be to calibrate my FP, secondarily would be any other displays I have (eg LCDs).

I was looking around, and from what I vaguely remember and can discern from the Datacolor site, it looks like the Spyder2 is the sensor I need/want. The question is what package do I go with. It looks like Spyder2 PRO package will do everything I want, but since I want to do a more "traditional" calibration on my FP (ie manually tweak PJ settings than generate a profile for the HTPC), do I really need the included software to do FPs?

It appears the ColorHCFR software in combination with the Spyder2 sensor will take care of my FP needs. So the question is, will the Spyder2express package work for me? What do I give up with express vs PRO? What's the "Multi-monitor support" in PRO get me (I think that may be the deciding factor)?

Thanks for indulging me :)

hi Goss151!

the 2007 version, adds full automation for Pioneer elite and industrial plasmas, includes RS232 serial cable, USB to serial adapter, Platinum spyder, and aluminum carrying case.

The reporting function also improved, as well as some bug fixes. 2007 also includes a listing on the Datacolor calibrator website and includes 1 year of web based calibration support via the Datacolor site.

I can assist you directly with the upgrade which is $300. Give me an email at gloewen@datacolor.com

Regards

Gregg

Which version (cheapest) would be need to do grayscale calibration for the pio 5080??

A $3k+ television like the Pio 5080 and you want the cheapest possible calibration method?

Wow.

A $3k+ television like the Pio 5080 and you want the cheapest possible calibration method?

Wow.

Paid significantly less than that. Just don't want to have to shell out another $3k if I dont really have to. On the other hand I don't want to shell out $250 either just to have my tint set. I can do that just fine with a DVD and a few filters.

What is the differnce between spyderTV pro and pro 2007? The price difference is quite high.

What is the differnce between spyderTV pro and pro 2007? The price difference is quite high.

A slightly different sensor that is claimed to be a bit more accurate. And the main thing is, is the software is much more advanced in the Pro2007 package. It will allow you to also adjust a TV that has the direct connect option of hooking up the TV via RS232 directly to a PC, which for now consists of mainly the Pioneer Elite line of plasma's.


Here is the page that has the comparison chart.

http://www.colorvision.com/product-ht-stvp.php

I understand that the Spyder2express uses the same hardware as ther pro variants. What software do I need to be able to calibrate my Samsung RP DLP?

Thanks

I apologize if this was asked before, but could someone tell if there is any limitation on the number of TVs and laptops that a single Spyder TV unit can be used/installed on?

Thanks,
Steve

I know the last several versions could be installed on an unlimited number of laptops and used with an unlimited number of TVs. And software updates worked fine on all of them. I can't comment on the very latest version of Spyder, but I really doubt that they started locking it to a specific laptop.

Now, it's possible that the fine print in the license agreement tells you to use it on only one laptop, but technically they don't do anything to stop you.

The SpyderTVPro2007 package also uses a USB dongle/key to unlock the software. Without the dongle, the software won't even start let alone run. But even with that, you can still use it on as many laptops as you want, because you just need to move the USB dongle over to another laptop just as you also need to move the colormeter itself. The lower cost Spyder and SpyderTV packages however, need no dongle. So far, only the SpyderTVPro2007 package uses a dongle.

Great I think that pretty much answers my question. I just want to make sure if I buy the Spdyer TV I will be able to use the unit on different TVs at different locations.

I just got the Spyder TV and I don't think disappointed is the word. I started with my Westy LVM-42W2 now it has been talked about in great length on some of the other forums and some member who are ISF techs and calibrated a few of these posted the settings. Until today they made that TV pop. Now from the factory the grey scale is pretty accurate. So it was all just user control settings. I ran the Spyder as instructed and it dropped my brightness from 50 to 25 and my contrast from 50 to 96....needless to say after I was done it was an almost to dark to see anything picture. Now I use a single input <DVI> from my A2 to my Denon to the TV PQ from the DVD was OK on the test disk but I switch to my Dish PVR622 and its a black out. Way way to dark, colors really seem off. Now I have many many people comment on the TV and color etc. Now its all blooming red and way to much saturation.

Ok to get to my point ...I use Avia and VE before with good results so long as the grey scale is close. But this Spyder (used in a dark room) blew all the settings way off. How accurate is this thing? Is it worth the $200? I am lost as to how it can be so far off after spending 27 minutes running calibrations and then when I ran its own test patterns they were way off. Also it doesn't address the "back light" on an LCD and where that should be set to calibrate the set. Not sure if the back light affected it or not.

Any ideas? If not its an RMA for me...:mad:

I hate to bump an old thread, but I have a question regarding SpyderTV and this was the first thread to come up through my search. I did read a large part of the thread, but I will admit that I did not read all 931 posts.

I have the DVE DVD, which I used to adjust my rear projection CRT (Mitsu WS55315), but as I read this thread it was implied that the STV might not give a better result than the DVE DVD. It seems that the advantage of the STV is I would not have to navigate through the horrible DVE menu.

I have been reading on-line reviews of the STV, and they are mixed. A lot of people are complaining that the STV sensor is horribly calibrated from the factory and that the results may not be all that accurate and that I shouldn't waste my money.

So, I thought I would ask the forum what your experience with the STV has been?

While I'm on the subject of DVE, I was always curious about this...

The DVE DVD is (of course) being played through the BD player. The BD player is connected to my AVR via HDMI, and the AVR is connected to my display via HDMI. The same situation holds for all of my equipment (Digital STB, game consoles, etc). Since the display's input itself is adjusted, will the same adjustments work across all of the equipment inputs of the AVR, or do I need to move the BD player to each of the other inputs of the AVR as well? In other words, do I need to move the BD player to the CAB/SAT HDMI input of the AVR to adjust that path's parameters, etc?

For what it's worth, I will be adjusting a Mitsubishi 82738 Rear Projection DLP.

Thanks a lot!

It is a great tool to get the most out of your picture. I've used in on 2 LCDs and 1 CRT all with great results. I also used the Avia Guide DVD that I had for setting up an InFocus projector. Great tools both and the SpyderTV is worth it if you have an expensive lcd or plasma.