So what is your host channel? (Hoping it's one I get too. <g>)

Hi hailstop. Host is Channel 9 CIVT (CTV network). I've been getting this for about a week now and have my 8 days populated with listings. Fingers crossed...

After a couple of weeks of trying, I finally got TV Guide On Screen working on my 533 for the first time. I know my problem was with signal strength.

Situation:
Pioneer 533.
Receiving over the air with antenna.
Original antenna connection to shared antenna with long coax runs with and without amp.

My original reception of VHF channels was acceptable. A bit fuzzy, but watchable on all available channels. UHF reception was terrible.

I did the hard reset, the soft reset, the resets with the codes in the maintenence menu. No TVGOS info at all after many tries.

Finally I ran a new coax cable up to a new dedicated antenna the other day and reception did look better VHF/UHF. I then did a hard reset, let it sit for 24 hours. When I turned it on after 24 hours, TVGOS was populated.

My conclusion is that signal strength does matter with getting the TVGOS information. If you are having problems with TVGOS try checking your antenna or cable signal strength. It may be your problems are not with the cable company or station broadcast but with your connection to cable tv or your OTA reception.

fwiw,
jb

After a couple of weeks of trying, I finally got TV Guide On Screen working on my 533 for the first time. I know my problem was with signal strength.

Situation:
Pioneer 533.
Receiving over the air with antenna.
Original antenna connection to shared antenna with long coax runs with and without amp.

My original reception of VHF channels was acceptable. A bit fuzzy, but watchable on all available channels. UHF reception was terrible.

I did the hard reset, the soft reset, the resets with the codes in the maintenence menu. No TVGOS info at all after many tries.

Finally I ran a new coax cable up to a new dedicated antenna the other day and reception did look better VHF/UHF. I then did a hard reset, let it sit for 24 hours. When I turned it on after 24 hours, TVGOS was populated.

My conclusion is that signal strength does matter with getting the TVGOS information. If you are having problems with TVGOS try checking your antenna or cable signal strength. It may be your problems are not with the cable company or station broadcast but with your connection to cable tv or your OTA reception.

fwiw,
jb

Very good advice.

Another way to check whether the TVGOS EPG signal strength is adequate, is to see if you can receive closed captioning information for the host channel. Since both CC and the EPG data are carried in the VBI, if you can receive the CC info, then, presumably, you should be able to get the EPG data.

Just a quick question from someone very frustrated with EPG. How do you access the "Debug" screen that many members speak of? I know I should totally read the manual but this one seems to elude me.

Thanks.
Jack

After a couple of weeks of trying, I finally got TV Guide On Screen working on my 533 for the first time. I know my problem was with signal strength.

Situation:
Pioneer 533.
Receiving over the air with antenna.
Original antenna connection to shared antenna with long coax runs with and without amp.

My original reception of VHF channels was acceptable. A bit fuzzy, but watchable on all available channels. UHF reception was terrible.

I did the hard reset, the soft reset, the resets with the codes in the maintenence menu. No TVGOS info at all after many tries.

Finally I ran a new coax cable up to a new dedicated antenna the other day and reception did look better VHF/UHF. I then did a hard reset, let it sit for 24 hours. When I turned it on after 24 hours, TVGOS was populated.

My conclusion is that signal strength does matter with getting the TVGOS information. If you are having problems with TVGOS try checking your antenna or cable signal strength. It may be your problems are not with the cable company or station broadcast but with your connection to cable tv or your OTA reception.

fwiw,
jb

I have suspected that signal strength is a factor. The question I haven't been able to get an answer to is how to change the Host Channel listed in the Debug Mode. I have two PBS stations, Channel 7 and Channel 12. The unit defaults to channel 7 as the default Host Channel however Channel 12 has a better signal and presumably a better signal strength. I'd like to see if the TVGOS would be more stable if it used Channel 12 however there doesn't seem to be any way to make that happen. I've tried everything and still can't figure it out. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Also for the guy asking for the debug mode code...you have to enter the TVGOS, Go to the top bar then go to settings. Scroll down to System Settings but don't actually select it. From there type the following code into the remote: 753159852.

I have suspected that signal strength is a factor. The question I haven't been able to get an answer to is how to change the Host Channel listed in the Debug Mode. I have two PBS stations, Channel 7 and Channel 12. The unit defaults to channel 7 as the default Host Channel however Channel 12 has a better signal and presumably a better signal strength. I'd like to see if the TVGOS would be more stable if it used Channel 12 however there doesn't seem to be any way to make that happen. I've tried everything and still can't figure it out. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Check out this post (and all others in this thread) by wabjxo:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6825599#post6825599

he is the greatest advocate of cycling through your PBS channels to find the best host. He's given instructions on how to do this several times.

Assuming you have two active PBS stations with different call letters, turn OFF the PBS station on Channel 7, then change the "tune channel" for the other PBS station from 12 to 7.

Damn! you've got quicker fingers than I :D

Hi hailstop. Host is Channel 9 CIVT (CTV network). I've been getting this for about a week now and have my 8 days populated with listings. Fingers crossed...

I get that station too, so I tried it last night. Nothing. I'm going to use a Victoria postal code for tonight that I picked off.

Check out this post (and all others in this thread) by wabjxo:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6825599#post6825599

he is the greatest advocate of cycling through your PBS channels to find the best host. He's given instructions on how to do this several times.

I read the instructions in the post and I am a little sceptical. Based on the listed instructions I don't think he is affecting any change to the set host channel. If my host channel in the Debug Screen lists Channel 7 and I want to change it to channel 12, making changes in the channel display options isn't going to have any effect. He may have noticed an increase in stability after making those changes but I'm sure it was purely coincidental. Making changes to the TVGOS channel display by changing the order of channels and turning channels off and on are purely for display purposes. It in no way effects the Hareware Tuner which is what the Host Channel is using.

I read the instructions in the post and I am a little sceptical. Based on the listed instructions I don't think he is affecting any change to the set host channel. If my host channel in the Debug Screen lists Channel 7 and I want to change it to channel 12, making changes in the channel display options isn't going to have any effect. He may have noticed an increase in stability after making those changes but I'm sure it was purely coincidental. Making changes to the TVGOS channel display by changing the order of channels and turning channels off and on are purely for display purposes. It in no way effects the Hareware Tuner which is what the Host Channel is using.

I think he's just making sure you can latch onto the most powerful host station in your area. To clear the host channel that your TVGOS has memorized, just change the ZIP code or enter the reset code for TVGOS. This is one of the FAQ's I've included at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ (the unofficial help guide).

This is one of the FAQ's I've included at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ (the unofficial help guide).


Thanks for the link. That's a great site.

Hi

Is anyone in this forum getting Gemstar data over-the-air in Vancouver BC? TVGOS worked fine on my HGD-HDD250 for about 3 months, then a week before Christmas I lost data and haven't received any since. I've tried re-booting, resetting user config, resetting G* config...all with no impact. I have clear reception on 2, 2.1, 8, 17, 32, 32.1 and 42.

I've my cable internet split to my DVR-531H and get basic cable and was wondering if
the EPG can work this way or does the cable have to be purely subscribed to?
It's been hooked up this way for a while and the tvguide will not populate. The EPG
stays on all the time.

Thanks...

I've my cable internet split to my DVR-531H and get basic cable and was wondering if
the EPG can work this way or does the cable have to be purely subscribed to?
It's been hooked up this way for a while and the tvguide will not populate. The EPG
stays on all the time. Thanks...

It should be able to work this way if you have a host station sending EPG data in your area. Visit the unofficial TVGOS help guide at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ for some troubleshooting suggestions.

I get that station too, so I tried it last night. Nothing. I'm going to use a Victoria postal code for tonight that I picked off.

Nope...doesn't look like I'm getting any EPG signal now. I suppose in one way that's good...it's not giving me the evil GMT screw around anymore. I don't see any indication on the debug screens that I'm getting any sort of signal.

Nope...doesn't look like I'm getting any EPG signal now. I suppose in one way that's good...it's not giving me the evil GMT screw around anymore. I don't see any indication on the debug screens that I'm getting any sort of signal.

When I lost my EPG data that is when I got the reset of my DVR clock to GMT. usually after a full day.

Holy cow this thread got long in the month I've been gone!

Just checking in to say that my unit continnues to perform nearly perfectly since I did the TVGOS reset and antenna move that I reported about 2 months ago. Last Friday I got the "rebuilding your listings" screen and thought, uh oh, here we go again, but it was gone (back to normal listings) the next day.

Hey sderby, thanks for that link to the unofficial TVGOS info page. The stuff they have on http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/techfaq.html is nearly identical to the info I posted in the "Pioneer EPG debug" thread months ago. Glad to see that that info exists somewhere besides a forum (forums are notorious for disappearing posts or falling off the net altogether, static web sites less so).

My EPG problems continue in a very predictable manner. The EPG will load flawlessly until all 8 days are present. Then, the rebuilding message appears.

Sometimes the guide comes back a day after the rebuild message occurs, sometimes not.

I have started to use the numeric code to reset just the EPG and it is good to go again for about another week.

The 1st night of the rebuilding process gives days 1,2 & 8, so I start off with enough information for today and tomorrow.

Sure wish this would bubble to the top of the TVGOS fixit list. All I can get from Pioneer is that is a known problem with the TVGOS system and has been referred to them for a fix.

Mine is WTVP through Insight analog cable. I receive both Will and WTVP through Insight and the PQ of WTVP is much better.

Looking at the diagnostic screens, it always indicates that it is picking up the EPG information from WTVP, which is my channel 13 on cable.

Hellooo
Ive been reading this forum for 6 weeks now, I have been wanting to buy a DVD recorder with a hard drive, and i narrowed it down to a panasonic E95 or a Pioneer 633.....seems to me they are both junk because of the TV guide problem!!!!!!
So ive joined the forum now, and this is my conclusion......

EITHER BUY A PIONEER 520 WITH NO TV GUIDE, because i dont want it anyways, i have directtv.....or wait until something new and better comes out......Can you turn the dang TV guide off or what????......thats all i would wanna do, is just eliminate it.....is it possible???......

Thanks
appreciate your comments
Mike

In your six weeks of reading this Forum, maybe you ran across the EUREKA Topic? It should answer your question.

Hi Bob
sounds familiar......ill read it again, is it in this thread??........

Yes, the EUREKA Topic is in this (DVD Recorders) Forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=566167

It works for me.

Well ive re-read some of the Eureka thread, i did read this a while back, it seems some are still complaining about quirks when you turn EPG off......Bob do you use the aoaoao zip & if so, how long has it worked for you??.....or anyone else.....has it been completely turned off for months now with NO HASSLE???

thanks
Mike

Yes, I used the Canada zip code, no hassle, since November.

Thanks Bob

Im reading this eureka thread right now......seems some guys are still cacklin about problems, like it recording in wrong modes, or trying to come back ect......but maybe they arent working it right, who knows......anyways, i would buy the 520 w/an 80gig HD, but i cant find 1 anywhere online....strange, the only thing different with the 520 is NO EPG.....hmmmmmmm....hahaha
But i really do like the 633 too, but i have 1 (you Bob) telling me EPG can be disabled without a hitch.....hmmmm hahaha......WHAT TO DO!!!!!.......laffs

Mike

Hellooo
Ive been reading this forum for 6 weeks now, I have been wanting to buy a DVD recorder with a hard drive, and i narrowed it down to a panasonic E95 or a Pioneer 633.....seems to me they are both junk because of the TV guide problem!!!!!!
So ive joined the forum now, and this is my conclusion......

EITHER BUY A PIONEER 520 WITH NO TV GUIDE, because i dont want it anyways, i have directtv.....or wait until something new and better comes out......Can you turn the dang TV guide off or what????......thats all i would wanna do, is just eliminate it.....is it possible???......

Thanks
appreciate your comments
Mike

The TVGOS EPG on the Panasonic EH-50 (2005 model) can be easily disabled without the use of a work-around such as "Eureka".

I think he's just making sure you can latch onto the most powerful host station in your area. To clear the host channel that your TVGOS has memorized, just change the ZIP code or enter the reset code for TVGOS. This is one of the FAQ's I've included at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ (the unofficial help guide).

I understand the intent, I just question the validity of the instructions. I have 2 PBS stations: Channels 7 and 12. The host channel is always set to Channel 7. Now the theory is that if in the TVGOS channel setup I turn off Channel 7, move Channel 12 right next to channel 7 and change the "tune to channel" to 7 that somehow the unit will now capture the TVGOS info from channel 12. This is absolutely false. The only way to do this is to reset the Program Guide using the special code. Then do a hard reset of the machine. Durring the initial setup after it has scanned all the channels, go back and using the manual channel setup turn off Channel 7 (or whichever channel you do not wish to download the TVGOS from). Now that channel is completely turned off in the tuner and the unit is unable to use that channel for viewing, recording or downloading. The TVGOS should not even see that channel as an option and should default to the next PBS channel in your linup that carries the signal. The host channel should now be set to a channel other than the one you turned off in the Tuner Setup.

I understand the intent, I just question the validity of the instructions. I have 2 PBS stations: Channels 7 and 12. The host channel is always set to Channel 7. Now the theory is that if in the TVGOS channel setup I turn off Channel 7, move Channel 12 right next to channel 7 and change the "tune to channel" to 7 that somehow the unit will now capture the TVGOS info from channel 12. This is absolutely false. The only way to do this is to reset the Program Guide using the special code. Then do a hard reset of the machine. Durring the initial setup after it has scanned all the channels, go back and using the manual channel setup turn off Channel 7 (or whichever channel you do not wish to download the TVGOS from). Now that channel is completely turned off in the tuner and the unit is unable to use that channel for viewing, recording or downloading. The TVGOS should not even see that channel as an option and should default to the next PBS channel in your linup that carries the signal. The host channel should now be set to a channel other than the one you turned off in the Tuner Setup.

I don't understand all this talk of "turning TVGOS channels off". When you turn off a channel from the TVGOS setup, all that does is prevent the download of program info for that channel. The channel can still be accessed by the recorder's tuner, so it isn't really off, just lacks program info, and can't be used to set a recording. If the TVGOS host channels is "turned off" this way, the TVGOS can still access the EPG data by tuning to that channel.

It would be very foolish to require a station to be "turned on" in the TVGOS setup in order to download the EPG data. If that were the case, then unless the host channel was among those "turned on", you would never download any EPG data. In other words, the TVGOS would be held hostage to the whims of the user's choice of channels.

Does anyone have information from the TVGOS support people that the method of turning host channels off in the TVGOS results in better reception of the EPG data. If so, please post it here. As far as I know, they only recommend trying a different zip code to improve the guide.

When I lost my EPG data that is when I got the reset of my DVR clock to GMT. usually after a full day.

Before, I was getting some sort of signal, but then it did the changing of the clock to GMT. Now, I don't get anything.

I think you're confused...one of my posts suggests turning your HOST channel off, but that's only for those who DO NOT want EPG to work. I think you made my point when you said:

My other post suggests having only ONE PBS station on at a time if you actually want EPG to work. (Some people have two if their coverage area overlaps with another PBS NOC). Also, it suggests you can interchange PBS stations in your channel list, which worked for me and may work for others -- IF SOMEONE -ANYONE - EVER GETS PAST THIS THEORETICAL DEBATE AND TRIES IT!

You can test the uniqueness of PBS channels yourself. Try to turn yours OFF, then turn unit off, then on, and see if you have actually turned it off. You should still be able to get to it via the channel up/down button. Try that with a commercial channel and you will actually skip that channel. (OF COURSE, you can still access it via the number buttons and see its programming, etc.)

That's not the point...something goes beyond theory and actually changes EPG behavior when you "fine tune" your PBS stations, and the most powerful PBS stations seem to always work best...assuming you actually want EPG to work. If you don't want or need EPG at all, try the Host Chan OFF approach.

Will someone please try one of these, any one, they're just ideas that work for me (I've actually witnessed them) and may work for you...and I'll say it again: THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY FREE AND SIMPLE TO DO AND UNDO!!!

I think we need to be clear about "turning on and off channels". There are two places where you can turn channels off and on.
1. The Automatic and Manual Tuner Setup under the Initial Settings menu. There are two methods by which you can have the unit scan for channels, Manual or Automatic. When you first setup the unit you probably used the Automatic Scan which automatically "turned on" all channels that were available via your cable connection. Subsequently you can then utilize the Manual Setup for each individual channel you wish to skip (turn off). For example you may not want to have Telemundo available when channel surfing. Utilizing the Manual Channel Setup you can tune to that station then select skip. This channel will no longer be available at all. You cannot tune to it and it will subsequently be unavailable in the TVGOS. You will no longer be able to use this method to manually Skip channels after you have setup the TVGOS. If you have already setup the TVGOS then you will need to reset the TVGOS using the special remote code then you will have to perform a hard reset of the unit using the Power and Stop buttons.
2. The second way to turn channels on and off is though the Channel Display setting within the TVGOS. This will in no way effect the Host Channel that is used to download TVGOS info. It will only effect which channels are displayed in the Listings section of the TVGOS.

If you wish to change the Host Channel then you should use the 1st method to manually skip the PBS channel you do not want TVGOS to utilize.

I think we need to be clear about "turning on and off channels". There are two places where you can turn channels off and on.
1. The Automatic and Manual Tuner Setup under the Initial Settings menu. There are two methods by which you can have the unit scan for channels, Manual or Automatic. When you first setup the unit you probably used the Automatic Scan which automatically "turned on" all channels that were available via your cable connection. Subsequently you can then utilize the Manual Setup for each individual channel you wish to skip (turn off). For example you may not want to have Telemundo available when channel surfing. Utilizing the Manual Channel Setup you can tune to that station then select skip. This channel will no longer be available at all. You cannot tune to it and it will subsequently be unavailable in the TVGOS. You will no longer be able to use this method to manually Skip channels after you have setup the TVGOS. If you have already setup the TVGOS then you will need to reset the TVGOS using the special remote code then you will have to perform a hard reset of the unit using the Power and Stop buttons.
2. The second way to turn channels on and off is though the Channel Display setting within the TVGOS. This will in no way effect the Host Channel that is used to download TVGOS info. It will only effect which channels are displayed in the Listings section of the TVGOS.

If you wish to change the Host Channel then you should use the 1st method to manually skip the PBS channel you do not want TVGOS to utilize.

I will try #2 first, then #1 when I get a chance. I'll report back as to whether or not the host channel changes.

I will try #2 first, then #1 when I get a chance. I'll report back as to whether or not the host channel changes.
You missed the point AGAIN!

Besides, your machines are PANASONIC and your Host Chan is NOT a PBS STATION (as you've said).

I've been trying to get any other PIONEER 531/533/633 user to try fine tuning their PBS Host CHANNEL by using different PBS STATIONS (apparently widely used in this PIONEER system) for either effect: NO TVG info or MORE STABLE TVG info. That would be a direct, "apples-to-apples" comparison.

However, other Pioneer users might as well NOT try #2 also since it will not "CHANGE" the Host CHANNEL, as YOU said, but it will/should, somehow, make EPG act differently in a Pioneer 531/533/633 system, as I have said, depending on what you do with the Host CHANNEL/STATION relationship.

If you turn OFF your Host CHANNEL, it should make your TVGOS info disappear after a day or two, and quiet your EPG down (for those who actually don't need/want EPG). It should result in "No Listing" in all days BUT no unwanted side effects (channels, clock, "rebuilding", etc.) which seem to occur with other, more drastic methods for trying to defeat EPG.

Again, simply turning the Host CHANNEL OFF in the simple and benign way I suggested was never claimed to "CHANGE" the Host CHANNEL, only EPG's behavior. This same effect can also be seen in switching PBS STATIONS for BETTER stability for those who want the opposite result (i.e., a more stable EPG).

It was only yours and Daytrader's misinterpretations that made those ideas not worthy of even trying!

I've run my experiment here and got "No Listing" and a tame EPG by turning OFF my perfectly working Host CHANNEL in the Change channel display menu. Now, I've switched my Host CHANNEL back ON and TVGOS is starting to repopulate again.

When I say Host "channel" I mean just that: I picked one of my four PBS STATIONS (not "channels") in the OFF section of my channel list to tune to my sole, assigned Host "channel" slot (Ch. 10), and I could have chosen any of the four STATIONS...it doesn't have to be the one my cable company picked for me (antenna fire, half-power, bad TVG)...they're all the same signal in my PBS NOC-controlled state. I use one of the most powerful in my state since I've actually experienced the effect of station power on TVG stability. No theory there!

Such a simple procedure, and all that time, my Host Chan remained intact in the debug screen (Ch. 10). Once again, it WILL NOT "change" the Host CHANNEL, only its behavior!!!

People with two actual CHANNELS of PBS may need to turn one off since multiple PBS STATIONS, all within my State, ON in the same channel slot at the same time made my TVG work poorly, and eventually start losing TVG info. If you have two actual PBS CHANNELS, you may even be receiving one from your state and one from another state. Since PBS/PTV is operationally State-oriented, those signals may not be exactly the same in the TVGOS area and cause interference (who knows for sure?)? In either case, multiple PBS CHANNELS or STATIONS ON at the same time may cause TVGOS long-term stability problems.

It's very possible that, by actually deleting/skipping your Host CHANNEL via manual channel setup (Daytrader's #1 method), you might get no EPG action at all...or you might turn your machine into a "grinder" searching in vain for data...somewhere...anywhere! If you don't want EPG, that might be a solution...or not...but I won't do that test since my EPG works perfectly and I want TVGOS to work. Someone in the Eureka thread might be interested in the manual-delete-Host-CHANNEL method.

I hope this is clear to other Pioneer readers now, but please don't try this at home! I used only professional, highly skilled technicians. It was extremely difficult, expensive, and time-consuming...and it is theoretically impossible to have any effect anyway!

You missed the point AGAIN!

Besides, your machines are PANASONIC and your Host Chan is NOT a PBS STATION (as you've said).

I've been trying to get any other PIONEER 531/533/633 user to try fine tuning their PBS Host CHANNEL by using different PBS STATIONS (apparently widely used in this PIONEER system) for either effect: NO TVG info or MORE STABLE TVG info. That would be a direct, "apples-to-apples" comparison.



The host channel that carries TVGOS EPG data is determined by an arrangement between TVGOS and the host channel. It has nothing at all to do with Pioneer!!! In addition, it should be identical for any DVD recorder that uses the TVGOS. Therefore it makes no difference whether the test is performed on a Pioneer or a Panasonic recorder.

Why does this particular test require a PBS host channel? The TVGOS does not differentiate between PBS and non-PBS host channels. It either is or isn't a host channel, period.

You seen to be claiming that your test will only work in states where there is one central PBS network that distributes programs to feeder stations. If that is the case, the the results will be worthless to the huge number of people who live in a state that has multiple independent PBS stations, such as PA and NY to name a couple.

Since I get my TVGOS EPG data from 2 commercial channels (ABC and CBS), I will try also turning off both channels on my Panasonic recorder, to see what happens to the TVGOS. Although you might not be interested in the results, others may.

The host channel that carries TVGOS EPG data is determined by an arrangement between TVGOS and the host channel. It has nothing at all to do with Pioneer!!! In addition, it should be identical for any DVD recorder that uses the TVGOS. Therefore it makes no difference whether the test is performed on a Pioneer or a Panasonic recorder.

Why does this particular test require a PBS host channel? The TVGOS does not differentiate between PBS and non-PBS host channels. It either is or isn't a host channel, period.

You seen to be claiming that your test will only work in states where there is one central PBS network that distributes programs to feeder stations. If that is the case, the the results will be worthless to the huge number of people who live in a state that has multiple independent PBS stations, such as PA and NY to name a couple.

Since I get my TVGOS EPG data from 2 commercial channels (ABC and CBS), I will try also turning off both channels on my Panasonic recorder, to see what happens to the TVGOS. Although you might not be interested in the results, others may.
I understand the Host CHANNEL is "hard-wired," probably via a Zip Code data table, and that's probably why you can't actually prevent it from being viewed using the normal CHANNEL up/down button after you "turn it OFF." (You can with non-Host CHANNELS.) The system doesn't want you to turn the designated Host CHANNEL OFF. This, so far, has nothing to do with STATIONS.

I also think you are still, again, missing the point of PBS STATIONS (emphasis intended) being interchanged in your designated Host CHANNEL (emphasis intended) slot...ON PIONEER machines. Virtually "all" PBS stations are "independent" (affiliates) and there are at least 26 states with multiple, independent PBS STATIONS, with different Call Signs (therefore a NOC may be involved), except that independence does not extend to their ability to broadcast completely independent programming...that right generally applies only to each State's PTV org (so they can localize content for that State's residents).

The first step in my procedure has always been to determine your Host CHANNEL (not STATION), then see if that is or is not a PBS/PTV/EDU STATION. So far, people with these PIONEER systems all report that PBS is, indeed, their Host STATION, delivered thru CHANNEL X. I don't know, maybe they're fibbing for effect!? If they happen to be in a multi-STATION state (more than 26 of them), they MIGHT have choices...that's it! Not a big deal!

Apparently, I'm not going to be able to stop a PANASONIC user from trying to convince PIONEER users not to even TRY an as-yet-untested-by-anyone-else-in-the-known-world TVGOS workaround for their PBS-based systems, so, peace be to you...and surely enough said on THIS subject!

Except...somehow, I know that's not good enough for you. I expect you to test your PANASONICS and their COMMERCIAL Host channels/stations and report that it doesn't work! Stay tuned, folks. I'll try not to respond, which will hopefully put this subject to bed for good!?

The host channel that carries TVGOS EPG data is determined by an arrangement between TVGOS and the host channel.
PIONEER USERS: please don't confuse CHANNELS with STATIONS as seen here.

CHANNELS can't make "arrangements," don't "carry" anything, and certainly don't "broadcast"...they are FCC-designated, numbered-for-convenience "slots" in the transmission bandwidth and in your tuner thru which your cable company or antenna delivers programming broadcast by the various STATIONS.

For Cable subscribers, CHANNEL number assigments are determined by your particular cable company. My cable company delivers my Host STATION's signal thru CHANNEL 10 (one of many "slots" in the tuner)...your Host CHANNEL could be Ch. 27, 12, 18, ? They can assign a STATION's normal CHANNEL number, such as WSRE Ch. 23, to actually be delivered thru tuner CHANNEL 4. Some CHANNELS actually match up to a STATION's normal Ch. # (Believe It or Not!).

Your Host CHANNEL will be where TVGOS will look for its info. You don't need to know or care about how or when that Host CHANNEL or the STATION for that channel is "selected" or by whom...you only need to know what your Host CHANNEL number is. You can find that via the debug screens.

Then you can look in your "Change channel display" list and find the STATION Call Sign that's being delivered thru your Host CHANNEL. Mine shows "WAIQ" (in the left portion of the top bar) as the STATION broadcasting thru my CHANNEL 10.

Pioneer users will probably have a PBS/PTV/EDU type STATION, again, selected by your cable company, being delivered thru that CHANNEL on your tuner. Although they "selected" WAIQ for my Channel 10, I can change that STATION (not the CHANNEL) with identical programming since it's a PBS STATION and I have three other Alabama PTV/PBS STATIONS (OFF) in my channel list. This part really escapes those who have never tried switching PBS STATIONS!

AND...I don't really care how, when or who made arrangements to deliver TVGOS data from the STATION to my DVR! Someone else can figure out the operational theories later, if they care to!

Strange how a simple PRAGMATIC test has turned into a breathtaking review of operational THEORIES, with CHANNELS making arrangements, etc. Next thing you know, CHANNELS will actually be "broadcasting" (sderby, where did you go?) and we'll all have to throw away our obsolete DVRs!

I understand the Host CHANNEL is "hard-wired," probably via a Zip Code data table, and that's probably why you can't actually prevent it from being viewed using the normal CHANNEL up/down button after you "turn it OFF." This is not true. A recorder equipped with TVGOS searches through all the tunable channels looking for any that carry data. People who use an IR blaster to allow the recorder to control their cable boxes can see the recorder changing the channels as it scans. Once it finds a channel that has EPG data which includes listings for the entered zip/postal code, it then stays tuned to that channel to receive the information. Again, those using an IR blaster can observe this behaviour on their cable box when they turn off their recorder.

It's impractical to have the recorder "know" ahead of time which channel carries the data because Gemstar's contracts with broadcasters change from time to time and therefore the "host" channel can (and does) change. If this information was hardwired in the recorder then there would be no way to pick up new data after such a change.

If this information was hardwired in the recorder then there would be no way to pick up new data after such a change.
And it continues.... Did you notice the quotation marks around my "hard-wired" and then the note on the possibility of a data table lookup?

Obviously, the DVR doesn't have a wire connected to a channel designating it as the Host!

Please, can't we stop attacking the periphery of a simple, two-step test!? All it's doing is confusing other people (readers) who might want to try the test...and for all of us who, by now, have forgotten what the test is, here are the two steps:

NOTE: these are only for "dissatisfied" PIONEER users with a PBS/PTV-type STATION in their Host Chan slot, and with an RF cable on the RF IN connector of their DVR.

1-If you want TVG to work better, switch your PBS STATION assigned to your Host CHANNEL with one in the OFF section of your channel list. (Turn OFF the previous STATION in that CHANNEL.)

2-If you want to have TVG with "No Listing" continuously and possibly tame its activity, turn your Host CHANNEL OFF.

Understanding Theory of Operation is important sometimes, but not in this case!

And it continues.... Did you notice the quotation marks around my "hard-wired" and then the note on the possibility of a data table lookup?

Actually, each host station pretty much continually broadcasts a list of ZIP codes that it carries data for in the VBI. Your TVGOS station scans through channels until it finds a channel broadcasting data on VBI line 14. When it finds one, it pauses and reads the ZIP code data. If one of the "service" ZIP codes matches your configured ZIP code, TVGOS stays on that channel and waits for channel lineup data. If there is no match, it resumes searching.

You seem to believe that all host stations carry the same EPG data. That's not the case. Each TVGOS host station only carries data for a limited number of ZIP codes in its area. Even if you can tune several different host stations, it is likely that only one of them will have data for your ZIP. There is very little overlap between host stations.

As for multi-station PBS states, it's irrelevant. The EPG data is not inserted at the level of PBS. It is inserted locally by VBI inserters at the local stations, regardless of whether they are affiliated with PBS or some other network. When Gemstar contracts with a host station, they are basically renting space in the host station's rack. They provide (and maintain ownership of) the VBI inserter which downloads region-specific information each night and inserts it into the station's VBI before transmitting the signal. So even if you have multiple PBS stations in your area, it is unlikely that all of them carry TVGOS data and those that do are probably carrying TVGOS data for different ZIPs.

And, on a side-note, California is a multi-PBS-station state, obviously. I can pull two PBS affiliates over cable or OTA and they do not have the same programming.

I know you said you don't care about the theory of operation, but if you change your mind, feel free to read some of the material at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ It explains how TVGOS works and offers some troubleshooting tips that may or may not help you.

I understand the Host CHANNEL is "hard-wired," probably via a Zip Code data table, and that's probably why you can't actually prevent it from being viewed using the normal CHANNEL up/down button after you "turn it OFF." (You can with non-Host CHANNELS.) The system doesn't want you to turn the designated Host CHANNEL OFF. This, so far, has nothing to do with STATIONS.

I also think you are still, again, missing the point of PBS STATIONS (emphasis intended) being interchanged in your designated Host CHANNEL (emphasis intended) slot...ON PIONEER machines. Virtually "all" PBS stations are "independent" (affiliates) and there are at least 26 states with multiple, independent PBS STATIONS, with different Call Signs (therefore a NOC may be involved), except that independence does not extend to their ability to broadcast completely independent programming...that right generally applies only to each State's PTV org (so they can localize content for that State's residents).

The first step in my procedure has always been to determine your Host CHANNEL (not STATION), then see if that is or is not a PBS/PTV/EDU STATION. So far, people with these PIONEER systems all report that PBS is, indeed, their Host STATION, delivered thru CHANNEL X. I don't know, maybe they're fibbing for effect!? If they happen to be in a multi-STATION state (more than 26 of them), they MIGHT have choices...that's it! Not a big deal!

Apparently, I'm not going to be able to stop a PANASONIC user from trying to convince PIONEER users not to even TRY an as-yet-untested-by-anyone-else-in-the-known-world TVGOS workaround for their PBS-based systems, so, peace be to you...and surely enough said on THIS subject!

Except...somehow, I know that's not good enough for you. I expect you to test your PANASONICS and their COMMERCIAL Host channels/stations and report that it doesn't work! Stay tuned, folks. I'll try not to respond, which will hopefully put this subject to bed for good!?

The TVGOS system calls it the "host channel", I'm just using their terminology.

By the way, I turned off the ABC station that is my TVGOS host channel and it was skipped using channel up/down.

This is not true. A recorder equipped with TVGOS searches through all the tunable channels looking for any that carry data. People who use an IR blaster to allow the recorder to control their cable boxes can see the recorder changing the channels as it scans. Once it finds a channel that has EPG data which includes listings for the entered zip/postal code, it then stays tuned to that channel to receive the information. Again, those using an IR blaster can observe this behaviour on their cable box when they turn off their recorder.

It's impractical to have the recorder "know" ahead of time which channel carries the data because Gemstar's contracts with broadcasters change from time to time and therefore the "host" channel can (and does) change. If this information was hardwired in the recorder then there would be no way to pick up new data after such a change.

I agree with Sean. It would be impractical and downright unusable if the TVGOS host channel was fixed. The TVGOS searches for a host channel, and when it is found, it downloads the EPG. That's why I think your "weak PBS host station" theory has flaws. If the TVGOS could not download the EPG from a host channel because the signal was weak, it would continue to search until it found one with a strong enough signal to allow the download.

Actually, each host station pretty much continually broadcasts a list of ZIP codes that it carries data for in the VBI. Your TVGOS station scans through channels until it finds a channel broadcasting data on VBI line 14. When it finds one, it pauses and reads the ZIP code data. If one of the "service" ZIP codes matches your configured ZIP code, TVGOS stays on that channel and waits for channel lineup data. If there is no match, it resumes searching.

You seem to believe that all host stations carry the same EPG data. That's not the case. Each TVGOS host station only carries data for a limited number of ZIP codes in its area. Even if you can tune several different host stations, it is likely that only one of them will have data for your ZIP. There is very little overlap between host stations.

As for multi-station PBS states, it's irrelevant. The EPG data is not inserted at the level of PBS. It is inserted locally by VBI inserters at the local stations, regardless of whether they are affiliated with PBS or some other network. When Gemstar contracts with a host station, they are basically renting space in the host station's rack. They provide (and maintain ownership of) the VBI inserter which downloads region-specific information each night and inserts it into the station's VBI before transmitting the signal. So even if you have multiple PBS stations in your area, it is unlikely that all of them carry TVGOS data and those that do are probably carrying TVGOS data for different ZIPs.

And, on a side-note, California is a multi-PBS-station state, obviously. I can pull two PBS affiliates over cable or OTA and they do not have the same programming.

I know you said you don't care about the theory of operation, but if you change your mind, feel free to read some of the material at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ It explains how TVGOS works and offers some troubleshooting tips that may or may not help you.

I agree with most of what you say. Except that there are instances where the EPG data for a zipcode can be carried by more than 1 host channel. I receive my EPG data from 2 Philly local commercial stations, the ABC and the CBS stations.

Additional information about how the TVGOS system is implemented can be found here: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=-1&sid=-1&aid=79

The first step in my procedure has always been to determine your Host CHANNEL (not STATION), then see if that is or is not a PBS/PTV/EDU STATION. So far, people with these PIONEER systems all report that PBS is, indeed, their Host STATION, delivered thru CHANNEL X. I don't know, maybe they're fibbing for effect!? If they happen to be in a multi-STATION state (more than 26 of them), they MIGHT have choices...that's it! Not a big deal!

Is that true? Is wabjxo speaking for all users of Pioneer DVD recorders with TVGOS. Do you ALL have a PBS station as your TVGOS host channel? Please speak up. I am particularly interested in hearing from Pioneer users in the Philly area. Is your TVGOS host channel a PBS station?

I agree with most of what you say. Except that there are instances where the EPG data for a zipcode can be carried by more than 1 host channel. I receive my EPG data from 2 Philly local commercial stations, the ABC and the CBS stations.

Correct. There are some markets that have some overlap, but in general it's kept to a minimum. In my area, for example, I can tune two host stations and there doesn't seem to be any overlap at all. Wabjxo seemed to be under the mistaken impression that all PBS stations in the same state carry the same EPG data.

My situation:
Everything worked perfectly fine up until about a week ago
Then the grid had "no listing" in every cell
I changed the zip code, and then changed it back
Still says rebuilding info 72 hours later
I have program info since I can search and get program info (episode summaries, etc) , but nothing in the listings screen.
Over the air, most stations come in fine.

How do you get into debug mode? I searched and could not find out how.

Brian

My situation:
How do you get into debug mode? I searched and could not find out how.


Try the troubleshooting tips at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ and see if any of them help you. There's a description of the debug mode on the Technical FAQ page at that site as well.

If this information was hardwired in the recorder then there would be no way to pick up new data after such a change.

And it continues.... Did you notice the quotation marks around my "hard-wired" and then the note on the possibility of a data table lookup?

Obviously, the DVR doesn't have a wire connected to a channel designating it as the Host!My point had nothing to do with physical wiring. What I was saying was that the recorder does not contain a table of which channel to tune to to get EPG info. It searches through all the tunable channels to find one carrying the data. This is the only practical way to do it given that it has work in hundreds or thousands of constantly changing markets all over North America.

Just trying to prevent the spread of misinformation... :rolleyes:

Try the troubleshooting tips at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ and see if any of them help you. There's a description of the debug mode on the Technical FAQ page at that site as well.

The section on entering the code to access the TVGOS debug screens is correct for some DVD recorders, but not others. For example, on Panasonic recorders (at least on my E-500 and E-65) the code for entry is correct, but does not work if you use the "Setup" tab. You have to scroll to the "Messages" tab, click enter on the remote, and then enter the code (753159852).

My point had nothing to do with physical wiring. What I was saying was that the recorder does not contain a table of which channel to tune to to get EPG info. It searches through all the tunable channels to find one carrying the data. This is the only practical way to do it given that it has work in hundreds or thousands of constantly changing markets all over North America.

Just trying to prevent the spread of misinformation... :rolleyes:
Excuse me, but who said the data table was in the recorder??????????

Answer: Only YOU!

Read it again!

The section on entering the code to access the TVGOS debug screens is correct for some DVD recorders, but not others. For example, on Panasonic recorders (at least on my E-500 and E-65) the code for entry is correct, but does not work if you use the "Setup" tab. You have to scroll to the "Messages" tab, click enter on the remote, and then enter the code (753159852).

Thanks for the info! I'll update the site to reflect that.

Excuse me, but who said the data table was in the recorder??????????

I understand the Host CHANNEL is "hard-wired," probably via a Zip Code data table

Sorry, to me "hard-wired" in conjunction with "data table" meant "data table is embedded in the hardware". If that's not what you meant then I apologize.

Sorry, to me "hard-wired" in conjunction with "data table" meant "data table is embedded in the hardware". If that's not what you meant then I apologize.
Apology accepted with thanks.

Although "no one" knows for sure how the TVGOS/Pioneer "COMMUNICATION" system works, I only "conjectured" that they "might" be using a common "computer" method (I use the term loosely here) which involves a "regularly" updated "SOFTWARE" (not on paper) table that "looks up" (not actually "looking" but more like "referencing") a DVR's zip code in a "software table" that "leads" the comm. "software system" from the DVR's zip code to "information" on cable systems and channel "layouts" "possibly" "serving" that zip code.

I'm only "speculating" all this because it is "one" (only one) explanation for why they need each user to enter a zip code, and why, when "some" people first set up their DVRs (or even "soft-reset" their TVGOS -- my experience only, probably no one else's), they (maybe only "I") get a "dialog" that "says" the DVR found "several" cable systems and channel "layouts" for that area and they (I?) have to pick one.

"Obviously," the "several cable systems" message "may" only occur if, in fact, your "area" is "served" by more than one cable system. (duh!)

Where that "data table" (if, in fact, there IS a "data table") "might" be, I have no clue, but I'd bet (not really) that it would be somewhere that makes the most sense to the system designers (assuming there actually were system designers).

This is the part where I probably should have chosen a different word than "hard-wired" which is a "common term in the computer software world" (oh, oh, maybe shouldn't have said that!) to suggest a user-unchangeable "linkage" of some sort...it was only meant to "suggest" that the TVG info. and channel layout "information" has been "pre-determined" ("hard-wired") via the "software table," the "comm. software" "looks" for info. in that alleged table, and this "process" is unchangeable by the user...uh, oh! I meant the alleged table may have several cable system "layouts" for that zip code, and the user can't change the data/info. "relationships" "expressed" in that alleged table.

Quotes intended to show lack of absolute assurance, which "might" lead to possible obfuscation...well, that might depend on the meaning of the word "lead"....

I'd better stop here... I'm starting to sound like Bill Clinton under cross-examination responding to the prosecutor's question: "Did you lead that woman, Ms. Lewinsky...." {This is NOT an actual quote; it's intended as a "pun," which means....}

It seems that lately, most of the attention on this problem has been focussed on TVGOS.

This seems to be letting Pioneer off the hook on this. I realize that other DVD recorder manufacturers are also having some trouble, but I still think a major issue here is how the EPG is integrated into the DVD recorder. And I imiagine Pioneer has the responsiblility for that.

I have TVGOS similtaneously running (I split OTA signal 1 to PIO 531 one to Tosh 65hx95 TV). The PIO has been pretty troublesome (although it's held the guide for over 2 weeks now), the Toshiba TV on the other hand, has no problems with TVGOS at all. I've had the Tosh. TV for over 1 1/2 years.

I've tried Pioneer customer support and they were not very responsive. I think Pioneer needs to step up and address this problem with firmware update.

Other than this problem I've been very happy with the PIO 531, and would problably have already purchased another if not for this lingering problem, and lack of any indication from Pioneer that they were trying to address it.

Rick

I have TVGOS similtaneously running (I split OTA signal 1 to PIO 531 one to Tosh 65hx95 TV). The PIO has been pretty troublesome (although it's held the guide for over 2 weeks now), the Toshiba TV on the other hand, has no problems with TVGOS at all. I've had the Tosh. TV for over 1 1/2 years.
Since Gemstar has three different interactive TVG products, and your TV is 1-1/2 yrs old, please verify that you do have the "product" named TVGOS in the Tosh TV, rather than one of Gemstar's other two similar products, named:

Guide Plus+

VCR Plus+

It seems that lately, most of the attention on this problem has been focussed on TVGOS.

This seems to be letting Pioneer off the hook on this. I realize that other DVD recorder manufacturers are also having some trouble, but I still think a major issue here is how the EPG is integrated into the DVD recorder. And I imiagine Pioneer has the responsiblility for that.

I agree that users of Pioneer recorders have more than their share of problems with the TVGOS. I think the biggest problem is the inability to disable the EPG without using an workaround. Panasonic users, on the other hand, can easily disable the TVGOS on their recorders.

It really does seem that Pioneer has done a terrible job of integrating the TVGOS in their recorders, That whole HDD grinding issue is just one example.

Let's hope that the new crop of 2006 recorders will address these problems and correct them. Since the new 2006 HDD recorders still seem to include the TVGOS, unless they fix it, there will be another crowd that will be unhappy with their recorders.

Since Gemstar has three different interactive TVG products, and your TV is 1-1/2 yrs old, please verify that you do have the "product" named TVGOS in the Tosh TV, rather than one of Gemstar's other two similar products, named:

Guide Plus+

VCR Plus+


Yes, I have the TVGOS product in the Toshiba TV.

Rick

I have the 533 with Comcast in central NJ. I have never been able to receive the TVGOS despite reinstalling and reconfiguring every possible way. My current config is a split of the incoming cable signal between the motorola digital cable box and the DVR. Since I have not had the slightest success, I believe that Comcast in its usual "damn the customer" response, has parsed off the TVGOS signal. While I have adjusted to this, I have a nagging sense of "Hey Pioneer, didn't you know this would happen?"

TVGOS isn't free...the cost is somehow rolled up into the 3 or 4 hundred dollars we each paid for the DVR...the more I think about it the more angry I get...not only at Comcast but specifically at Pioneer. I would sign up with any wise person who knows a way to get some fair dealing out of this. I think some sort of action against Comcast and/or Pioneer is the right thing to do for the interests of current and future customers of both of these customer service indifferent companies.

Lou

Yes, I have the TVGOS product in the Toshiba TV.

Rick
Since the TVGOS is a Gemstar product, the problems could come from either Pioneer's implementation of that product/feature or from Gemstar's design and support of that feature for Pioneer DVRs.

"Maybe" that's why Pioneer help-desk people can't explain what's going on...i.e., "maybe" they haven't been trained in the nitty-gritty details of how an essentialy interactive comm. system (TVGOS) works in their DVRs. The "front-desk" people "might" only really know how the "hardware" works.

Just one of many possibilities, of course!

Since the TVGOS is a Gemstar product, the problems could come from either Pioneer's implementation of that product/feature or from Gemstar's design and support of that feature for Pioneer DVRs.

"Maybe" that's why Pioneer help-desk people can't explain what's going on...i.e., "maybe" they haven't been trained in the nitty-gritty details of how an essentialy interactive comm. system (TVGOS) works in their DVRs. The "front-desk" people "might" only really know how the "hardware" works.

Just one of many possibilities, of course!


I agree that it's possible that Gemstar may need to be involved in the solution, however, in my opinion, it's Pioneers responsibility. Gemstar is simply another vendor or sub-contractor providing Pioneer a component for Pioneers finished product. Pioneer is the prime contractor and bears the responsibility to see that the final products performs.

Rick

I have the 533 with Comcast in central NJ. I have never been able to receive the TVGOS despite reinstalling and reconfiguring every possible way. My current config is a split of the incoming cable signal between the motorola digital cable box and the DVR. Since I have not had the slightest success, I believe that Comcast in its usual "damn the customer" response, has parsed off the TVGOS signal. While I have adjusted to this, I have a nagging sense of "Hey Pioneer, didn't you know this would happen?"

TVGOS isn't free...the cost is somehow rolled up into the 3 or 4 hundred dollars we each paid for the DVR...the more I think about it the more angry I get...not only at Comcast but specifically at Pioneer. I would sign up with any wise person who knows a way to get some fair dealing out of this. I think some sort of action against Comcast and/or Pioneer is the right thing to do for the interests of current and future customers of both of these customer service indifferent companies.

Lou

I have Comcast in the Philly area, and I have no problem receiving TVGOS from the direct RF input. Comcast in general does not strip off the TVGOS EPG data.

When you changed the configuration to RF input for the TVGOS, did you reset the system and choose "cable - yes" and "cable box - no"?

Have you checked the TVGOS debug screen to see it you have a TVGOS host channel?

If you are really interested in tracking down the problem, connect an antenna to the RF input (rabbit ears are OK), and reset the TVGOS to "cable - no". If you are close to Philly, you should be able to receive either Channel 3 (KYW - CBS) or Channel 6 (WPVI - ABC) OTA. Both of these stations are TVGOS host channels for my zipcode, and they may also work for your area. Alternatively, a PBS station may serve as a TVGOS host for your area. As long as you can receive closed captioning from the OTA stations, you should be able to get TVGOS EPG data.

If you try this, let us know the outcome.

I have the 533 with Comcast in central NJ. I have never been able to receive the TVGOS despite reinstalling and reconfiguring every possible way. My current config is a split of the incoming cable signal between the motorola digital cable box and the DVR. Since I have not had the slightest success, I believe that Comcast in its usual "damn the customer" response, has parsed off the TVGOS signal. While I have adjusted to this, I have a nagging sense of "Hey Pioneer, didn't you know this would happen?"
After doing a test that ended up showing "No Listing" in all my TVGOS days, I did a soft reset, which didn't lose my Zip Code or other TVG settings, so I answered "Yes, this is correct" (or whatever that screen actually says) in the TVG SETUP menu.

No changes...actually no "EPG" in display except for short time after turning DVR off.

I then tried changing my PBS station, which is "my" Host station for the Host Channel, or "Host Chan" in debug screen.

Same effect, i.e., none, none.

I changed PBS station again, no luck...same as before.

I had only one more PBS station to try, but after changing that, I ALSO went to the "Change system settings" "menu" in TVG "SETUP" (starting with the TV GUIDE button on the remote) and physically re-entered all the "data" for each screen (Zip Code, Box, etc.).

Now it's once again completely filled (all 8 days) after only an overnight Standby/Off, and my beloved "EPG" is showing all the time. (This is only how MY EPG system acts when it's working.)

Don't worry about the "PBS" I mentioned above, (that's only how MY Pioneer DVR works), but you might want to do a TVG Setup again ("Change system settings"), making sure you enter "No, my setup is wrong" (or whatever the 3rd choice really says), and then re-entering the data and choices again.

I did this thru the "TV GUIDE" button, NOT the "HOME MENU" > "TV GUIDE" menu.

I re-entered all numbers of my Zip and "cycled" off then back to the button choices that had been selected before.

This "might" work for you?

I agree that it's possible that Gemstar may need to be involved in the solution, however, in my opinion, it's Pioneers responsibility. Gemstar is simply another vendor or sub-contractor providing Pioneer a component for Pioneers finished product. Pioneer is the prime contractor and bears the responsibility to see that the final products performs.

Rick
I agree that Pioneer is prime and Gemstar is sub, but it's not like Gemstar is just a COMPONENT vendor, as are the hard drive, display, etc. vendors.

Pioneer MAY be installing "something" (firmware???) in its machines that may be one end of a "communication" system (the interactive TVGOS system), but they have to rely on Gemstar and the delivering stations for the daily operation of the comm. system.

The best illustration of how this system can easily "fall apart" is the Victoria/Calgary area that had good Pioneer machines but no TVGOS for awhile because Gemstar let its contracts with TVGOS delivering stations expire without arranging for uninterrupted continuation with the same or other stations. Pioneer caught all the flak for weeks, until someone discovered the truth: that it was really a Gemstar problem!

Who knows how many other areas of the country "may" be experiencing, or will experience, this exact type of problem, totally out of the control of the DVR mfgrs? I doubt that Gemstar will keep all DVR owners updated on problems THEY are having in maintaining the comm. system interface. Neither will the stations. Apparently, neither of those keep the DVR mfgrs updated either!?

In my opinion, and only to ME, it would be an unacceptable risk in the first place to make machines that rely on a comm. system that I didn't make and don't maintain or control. Some people might call the DVR mfgrs with TVGOS brave...others, like me, might say they're just asking for the problems some people are having? If the mfgrs controlled the entire comm. system chain, then who knows?

Although "no one" knows for sure how the TVGOS/Pioneer "COMMUNICATION" system works, I only "conjectured" that they "might" be using a common "computer" method (I use the term loosely here) which involves a "regularly" updated "SOFTWARE" (not on paper) table that "looks up" (not actually "looking" but more like "referencing") a DVR's zip code in a "software table" that "leads" the comm. "software system" from the DVR's zip code to "information" on cable systems and channel "layouts" "possibly" "serving" that zip code.The "table" can't be stored in the recorder. If it was, and if the channel carrying the EPG data changed, then there would be no way for the recorder to get a software update to tell it which channel to tune to. For example, in the Victoria BC area the broadcaster that carried the EPG data (CBC) declined to renew the contract and for a few weeks nobody was providing the data. When the new carrier starts providing data (not sure if that's happened yet), the recorder will have to find it on it's own. This is why it scans all the tunable channels looking for the data.

The zip code is required because it's common for people in the same broadcast area to have different channel lineups. For example, in Vancouver those of us who use cable receive stations on completely different channels than people in the neighboring city of North Vancouver. We both receive the same stations, and would get them on the same channels if we received them over the air, but the channel assignments on the cable system are completely different (even though both communities are served by the same provider, Shaw). When EPG data is transmitted it contains different channel lineups identified by zip code (or, in our case, "postal code"). When you enter the zip/postal code into your recorder, it uses only the channel lineups in the received EPG data that are appropriate for you.

After doing a test that ended up showing "No Listing" in all my TVGOS days, I did a soft reset, which didn't lose my Zip Code or other TVG settings, so I answered "Yes, this is correct" (or whatever that screen actually says) in the TVG SETUP menu.You should be aware that it's fairly common (for me, at any rate) to have the TVGOS show no data in the listings screen even though it's still successfully downloading and storing data. You can verify whether or not this is the case by using the TVGOS "search" screen and searching for shows you know to be being broadcast. For example, I search for the keyword "Family Guy" because it's shown every day on the comedy network. Even though the "listings" screen shows nothing at all, the search results for "Family Guy" include shows being broadcast on each of the next 8 days.

So it may be misleading to use an absence of data on the "listings" screen as an indication that you're not receiving any EPG data.

The "table" can't be stored in the recorder.
Haven't you apologized once for this already?

Please tell me in which of my posts you are actually finding that foolish idea!

You seem (to me, at least) to be seeing "in the recorder" and relating that to an "alleged" data table.

The table is NOT...I repeat...NOT stored in the recorder!

And it was only my CONJECTURE they MIGHT actually use a computer-like data table SOMEWHERE in their comm. system! (How much do you know about computer software, internet protocol, packets, etc.?) Many websites use such a table as an interface that lets the "computer system" know what data to send back for the zip code a computer-user enters. It is a SOFTWARE table in a computer system, SOMEWHERE! I AM NOT SUGGESTING THIS IS THE ACTUAL WAY THE TVGOS WORKS..IT COULD BE JUST ONE POSSIBILITY!

All this is NOT to suggest there is a two-way electronic conversation. As explained on sderby's website. TVGOS is a "one-way data push" (or similar words, puleez don't hold me to an exact quote). But then, the TVGOS system has to know what data to "push" so it must (may) look for the zip code we entered "in the recorder." (Oh, lordy, let's see what this stirs up!)

You seem to be the only one who has the unflagging, and erroneous, idea that the alleged table is "in the recorder"!!!

I am terribly sorry that I previously used the words "hard-wired" and "table" in the same sentence since you are now "hard-wired" to a completely erroneous idea! I'm sorry I mentioned them at all!

Let this be a lesson to all who choose to post in this forum (and others)...CHOOSE YOUR WORDS VERY, VERY CAREFULLY!!!

Another lesson... DO NOT REPORT YOUR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, thinking it might be a help to others, or the forum police will put that idea in handcuffs or strangle the life out of it, if they can...even if THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME EQUIPMENT AS YOU JUST REPORTED AN EXPERIENCE WITH!

(I've noticed that all the normal non-police posters have been very quiet lately...I guess they've all become readers now? GOOD CHOICE! I DO hope, however, that you have better reading-comprehension skills than exhibited lately!?)

Actually, all this could have been avoided if my original arresting officer hadn't "rolled his icon eyes" at me!!!

Haven't you apologized once for this already?

Please tell me in which of my posts you are actually finding that foolish idea!

You seem (to me, at least) to be seeing "in the recorder" and relating that to an "alleged" data table.

The table is NOT...I repeat...NOT stored in the recorder!Look, I'm sorry we're having this miscommunication, but what I got by reading your posts was "table in the recorder". You didn't explicitly state where it was, so when I read this post:
Although "no one" knows for sure how the TVGOS/Pioneer "COMMUNICATION" system works, I only "conjectured" that they "might" be using a common "computer" method (I use the term loosely here) which involves a "regularly" updated "SOFTWARE" (not on paper) table that "looks up" (not actually "looking" but more like "referencing") a DVR's zip code in a "software table" that "leads" the comm. "software system" from the DVR's zip code to "information" on cable systems and channel "layouts" "possibly" "serving" that zip code.I assumed you were talking about a table in the recorder. You clearly stated that communication is a one way "push", so therefore a table that's used for a zip code lookup can only be stored in the recorder, because only the recorder knows what zip code was entered by the user.

Again, my apologies. I'm not try to pick on you, just make sure that incorrect information doesn't get propogated. At any rate, it looks like we all agree that there's nothing stored in the recorder that tells it where to find the EPG data - it scans all tunable channels until it finds what it needs.

It really doesn't matter how or where the EPG data is stored, other than to satisfy some curiosity.

The issue seems to be the periodic loss of access to the EPG information on the listing screen of the EPG, when no change to the setup has been made on the recorder.

The problem is either caused by something Gemstar updates cause, or some problem in the Pioneer EPG firmware. 11 pages of "reverse engineering" in this thread has not solved this issue.

Pioneer customer support has told me that it is a Gemstar problem and that they are working on it.

No amount of speculation, or attacks on the theories of others, has changed the basic problem at all.

It really doesn't matter how or where the EPG data is stored, other than to satisfy some curiosity.

The issue seems to be the periodic loss of access to the EPG information on the listing screen of the EPG, when no change to the setup has been made on the recorder.

The problem is either caused by something Gemstar updates cause, or some problem in the Pioneer EPG firmware. 11 pages of "reverse engineering" in this thread has not solved this issue.

Pioneer customer support has told me that it is a Gemstar problem and that they are working on it.

No amount of speculation, or attacks on the theories of others, has changed the basic problem at all.
AMEN!

(Which means "The End" in Yubangi, or is it Chinese? Let's debate this!)

All this is NOT to suggest there is a two-way electronic conversation. As explained on sderby's website. TVGOS is a "one-way data push" (or similar words, puleez don't hold me to an exact quote). But then, the TVGOS system has to know what data to "push" so it must (may) look for the zip code we entered "in the recorder." (Oh, lordy, let's see what this stirs up!)

Your description of the TVGOS EPG operation does not seem likely to me. I doubt that the central TVGOS system "pushes" the data to the recorder. I think that it is more likely that it is the other way around, and that the recorder "seeks" the data from the TVGOS EPG broadcasts in the VBI.

The TVGOS EPG broadcast contains specific program information that is organized by zipcode/postal code. The reason for this is that the channel lineup is a function of the area served by a particular cable company or a particular segment of a cable company's regional system. For example, in the Philly area (as well as other parts of the country), Comcast is the major cable company. But it has several different "segments" based on the acquisition of previous cable providers. Therefore, the channel lineups on Comcast vary depending on where you live. Cable companies in the US divide their "regions" by area code, so this is a natural way to determine what the appropriate channel lineup is for a particular TVGOS user.

Now, the TVGOS EPG broadcast must accommodate cable users that live in different areas served by the same cable company. So the EPG broadcast in a large metropolitan area is likely to contain program information for multiple channel lineups. The TVGOS software in the recorder must be capable of downloading only the correct information, disregarding the rest. So the EPG data must be "tagged" with a list of zipcodes for which the information is valid. The recorder seeks the data burst that contains the proper zipcode, and when found, downloads the EPG data.

Now there are some cases where the same zipcode is covered by 2 or more cable providers, in my case, Comcast and RCN. In this case, the recorder cannot decide which is the correct channel lineup, and has to ask for clarification, which mine did.

Using this system, TVGOS can provide EPG information to many different TV and recorder users whose units utilize the TVGOS using only 1 or 2 stations to provide EPG data to an entire metropolitan area.

Just my thoughts on the matter...

It really doesn't matter how or where the EPG data is stored, other than to satisfy some curiosity.

The issue seems to be the periodic loss of access to the EPG information on the listing screen of the EPG, when no change to the setup has been made on the recorder.

The problem is either caused by something Gemstar updates cause, or some problem in the Pioneer EPG firmware. 11 pages of "reverse engineering" in this thread has not solved this issue.

Pioneer customer support has told me that it is a Gemstar problem and that they are working on it.

No amount of speculation, or attacks on the theories of others, has changed the basic problem at all.

If it is a "Gemstar" problem, then why doesn't it affect me, a Panasonic user? I have lost EPG data only once in about 6 months, and that lasted only 24 hours.

I think that it is a "Pioneer" problem.

Your description of the TVGOS EPG operation does not seem likely to me. I doubt that the central TVGOS system "pushes" the data to the recorder. I think that it is more likely that it is the other way around, and that the recorder "seeks" the data from the TVGOS EPG broadcasts in the VBI.

The TVGOS EPG broadcast contains specific program information that is organized by zipcode/postal code. The reason for this is that the channel lineup is a function of the area served by a particular cable company or a particular segment of a cable company's regional system. For example, in the Philly area (as well as other parts of the country), Comcast is the major cable company. But it has several different "segments" based on the acquisition of previous cable providers. Therefore, the channel lineups on Comcast vary depending on where you live. Cable companies in the US divide their "regions" by area code, so this is a natural way to determine what the appropriate channel lineup is for a particular TVGOS user.

Now, the TVGOS EPG broadcast must accommodate cable users that live in different areas served by the same cable company. So the EPG broadcast in a large metropolitan area is likely to contain program information for multiple channel lineups. The TVGOS software in the recorder must be capable of downloading only the correct information, disregarding the rest. So the EPG data must be "tagged" with a list of zipcodes for which the information is valid. The recorder seeks the data burst that contains the proper zipcode, and when found, downloads the EPG data.

Now there are some cases where the same zipcode is covered by 2 or more cable providers, in my case, Comcast and RCN. In this case, the recorder cannot decide which is the correct channel lineup, and has to ask for clarification, which mine did.

Using this system, TVGOS can provide EPG information to many different TV and recorder users whose units utilize the TVGOS using only 1 or 2 stations to provide EPG data to an entire metropolitan area.

Just my thoughts on the matter...
I thought the horse was dead!?

If it is a "Gemstar" problem, then why doesn't it affect me, a Panasonic user? I have lost EPG data only once in about 6 months, and that lasted only 24 hours.

I think that it is a "Pioneer" problem.
Now is the horse REALLY dead???

Now is the horse REALLY dead???

Let dead horses lie... :D

Now that the horse in finally dead, I have some FANTASTIC NEWS THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!

I decided to find out what really makes the Pioneer TVGOS system work, so...

I took my machine apart, and guess what?????

The TVGOS system is run by two tiny little squirrels in a tiny little cage. One squirrel runs around the cage while the other squirrel sits at a TABLE and rests for his next turn.

When your EPG doesn't work, it's probably because one or both squirrels are injured!

It really doesn't matter how or where the EPG data is stored, other than to satisfy some curiosity.

The issue seems to be the periodic loss of access to the EPG information on the listing screen of the EPG, when no change to the setup has been made on the recorder.

The problem is either caused by something Gemstar updates cause, or some problem in the Pioneer EPG firmware. 11 pages of "reverse engineering" in this thread has not solved this issue.

Pioneer customer support has told me that it is a Gemstar problem and that they are working on it.

No amount of speculation, or attacks on the theories of others, has changed the basic problem at all.


As I've pointed out, here as well as to Pioneer customer support, I have the same TVGOS in a Toshiba TV. It doesnt have the problems I have with the Pioneer. And its getting the smae signal (i split a coax OTA antenna feed to each maching). The Pioneer EPG loses it's data sometimes, the Toshiba does not.

Rick

As I've pointed out, here as well as to Pioneer customer support, I have the same TVGOS in a Toshiba TV. It doesnt have the problems I have with the Pioneer. And its getting the smae signal (i split a coax OTA antenna feed to each maching). The Pioneer EPG loses it's data sometimes, the Toshiba does not.

Rick
Have you tried switching the device ends of the cables that feed both units?

Losing EPG "sometimes" may be an indication of a weak signal to the DVR (pure conjecture here!).

One person on this (or another) forum had a similar experience, but found that his cable to the DVR was "defective"...losing 7dB. When he replaced the cable, everything was fine.

In my system (and only mine), I also found that a weak signal made a difference.

You have an IDEAL situation to test this (and many other problem "theories") in your system: two diff. mfgrs, one unit working and one not, so it's not the STATION's signal strength or the antenna, AND EPG actually works, sometimes, so it's probably not your TVG Setup.

If you kept your cables in the splitter in their same ports, but switched the device ends, that would be a very simple but "pure" test...it would test both the splitter and the cables. Some splitters have -2dB ports and one or more -7dB ports, and many don't mark which are which. There MIGHT even be cheaper-than-cheap splitters that lose more signal from some or all ports...hey, maybe that's why I see some splitters marking their ports and some with no indication of the dB loss (pure conjecture here)?

With you being on OTA and having a splitter in line (where ALL ports lose some signal strength), a little dB could make a difference?

If that doesn't change things, it is theoretically possible (sorry for all the mealymouthed wording, but it IS necessary) that the Pioneer system is more sensitive to signal strength (and fluctuations?) than other systems for TVGOS to work.

To test that, you could install a ("mild," not too strong?) signal booster before the splitter (if you don't have one already).

I have a booster in my cable run before any of my splitters, and I have three splitters in line...all ports marked with dB loss...before my signal reaches the DVR! I have cable service and all my splitters and the booster were supplied by my cable company.

Since there may be good and bad boosters (amps) on the market, here are the "specs" on my cable company booster, which unfortunately is not sold to the public...must be supplied to cable companies and others only. Anyway, these "specs" work well (in case you or anyone else wants to find a similar unit):

Qintar, Westlake Village, CA
Cable Spec (registered tradename)
Residential Amp
Digital TV Ready
RAMP2W-1000MS
5-42 MHz Return Path Passive
54-1000 MHz Forward Path 10dB Gain
6 kV Surge Protection

P.S. My cable installers switched my 25-yr-old inside cable to all RG6 (quad-shielded) coax up to my last splitter...they had already switched all their 25-yr-old feed lines system-wide...and it did make a noticeable difference in PQ. Another option for others to try?

If NONE of these make a difference, then I'd have to say "for sure":

PIONEER, WE HAVE A PROBLEM! (Beam me up, Scotty!)

Now that the horse in finally dead, I have some FANTASTIC NEWS THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!

I decided to find out what really makes the Pioneer TVGOS system work, so...

I took my machine apart, and guess what?????

The TVGOS system is run by two tiny little squirrels in a tiny little cage. One squirrel runs around the cage while the other squirrel sits at a TABLE and rests for his next turn.

When your EPG doesn't work, it's probably because one or both squirrels are injured!

The squirrels are dead too... :(

I did see a squirrel in my front yard the other day. I would now bet my EPG loss is due to one of those little buggers escaping from my recorder.

The squirrel theory would also explain what some thought to be excess disc noise from these recorders. Probably just the squirrels doing some housekeeping.

Oddly, this makes as much sense as anything I have been able to get from Pioneer.

What really baffles me is that I AM getting program info (because I can search)
(on the other hand, I suppose it could be info from when it worked) but am not getting the grid. Also, My setup was working perfectly fine for months.
I suppose the local provider could have changed or something.

Just out of curiousity, I changed the zip code to the nearby big town (same channels) No luck so far.

Brian

What really baffles me is that I AM getting program info (because I can search)
(on the other hand, I suppose it could be info from when it worked) but am not getting the grid. Also, My setup was working perfectly fine for months.
I suppose the local provider could have changed or something.

Just out of curiousity, I changed the zip code to the nearby big town (same channels) No luck so far.

Brian
Have you tried the TVG Setup "re-entering" procedure yet. See my post #311 above.

Essentially, tell the TVG your system settings are wrong and re-enter all info...toggle ALL the dual-choice anwers (don't just accept what's already selected) and rekey YOUR TRUE zip code. Then, let it "percolate" for awhile.

Next time you turn it on, however, it may ask you to choose from a list of other cable systems found in your area. Just select yours, and you should have proper channel lineup, but then you'll have to wait again for possible results in TVG population.

It should be worth a try...very simple to do.

P.S. I don't know if others have noticed or can pinpoint a date in time, but "things seem to have changed" since the 1st of the year or so. My system has worked flawlessly up to just recently, now I've had to rekey my system settings, etc. to get things back from "broke" to "normal."?

(And I just checked on my squirrels...they're there, but one has a bandage. Uh, oh!)

Aydu: I had a good laugh over your explanation of the "disc noise"! Maybe the "fun" is back. I still chuckle over Treedmack's "dog sled" tale way back on pg 5. By the way Treedmack, are you still "Pioneering" in the great Northwest? Any squirrels in your machine?

I don't have cable, but I will try toggling all the settings.

Brian

I don't have cable, but I will try toggling all the settings.

Brian

If that doesn't work, throw some nuts in for the squirrels...

P.S. I don't know if others have noticed or can pinpoint a date in time, but "things seem to have changed" since the 1st of the year or so.Both my Pioneers (a 533 and a 633) started having intermittent "no listings" problems almost immediately after I purchased them in September and October of last year. The problems been fairly consistent (ie, no listings screen about 30% of the time) since then.

Both my Pioneers (a 533 and a 633) started having intermittent "no listings" problems almost immediately after I purchased them in September and October of last year. The problems been fairly consistent (ie, no listings screen about 30% of the time) since then.

I also have had perpetual problems with my 533 ever since I got it for Christmas. Here is the pattern:
1. The message "rebuilding the guide based on your new settings" appears. The recording schedule stays in tact and I'm still able to find programs using the search function.
2. After about a day the scheduled recordings turn Grey indicating that they are no longer valid and I'm now unable to find programs even with the search function.
3. I use the special remote control code to reset the TVGOS.
4. Go into the TVGOS settings and go through the setup again reinputting my zip code. Leave the unit off overnight.
5. The next day when I turn it on it display's two cable systems in my area and asks me to select one.
6. As soon as I select a cable linup, the channels immediately display but they all say "No Listings" next to each channel.
7. Leave the system off overnight and the next day The 1st and 8th day are loaded. The additional days are loaded over the next 5 days.
8. About a day or two after all 8 days are loaded I recieve the "rebuilding based on your new settings" message again.

This last time, rather than using my home zip code I used a Hartford, CT zip code. I read that the Host channel is determined based on the Zip Code you input. They suggest using a Zip Code from a major city in your area. I'll see if this helps but I'm not very hopefull.

I'd like to know if anyone has a Pioneer 533 that is working fine. If so then please describe your setup.

Thanks

This last time, rather than using my home zip code I used a Hartford, CT zip code. I read that the Host channel is determined based on the Zip Code you input. They suggest using a Zip Code from a major city in your area. I'll see if this helps but I'm not very hopefull.Thanks

That will work only if the Hartford area of that zipcode is served by the same cable provider and has the same channel line up as you. Also, the host channel on your cable must have EPG data with that zipcode in it. If not, either you will receive no EPG data, or the EPG information that you receive will be useless to you.

Have you tried to receive the EPG data OTA. Maybe the cable provider is screwing around with the VBI and messing up the EPG data. You could hook up a rabbit ears temporarily. Are you near enough to OTA broadcast antenna to receive OTA channels?

I also have had perpetual problems with my 533 ever since I got it for Christmas. Here is the pattern:
1. The message "rebuilding the guide based on your new settings" appears. The recording schedule stays in tact and I'm still able to find programs using the search function.
2. After about a day the scheduled recordings turn Grey indicating that they are no longer valid and I'm now unable to find programs even with the search function.
3. I use the special remote control code to reset the TVGOS.
4. Go into the TVGOS settings and go through the setup again reinputting my zip code. Leave the unit off overnight.
5. The next day when I turn it on it display's two cable systems in my area and asks me to select one.
6. As soon as I select a cable linup, the channels immediately display but they all say "No Listings" next to each channel.
7. Leave the system off overnight and the next day The 1st and 8th day are loaded. The additional days are loaded over the next 5 days.
8. About a day or two after all 8 days are loaded I recieve the "rebuilding based on your new settings" message again.

This last time, rather than using my home zip code I used a Hartford, CT zip code. I read that the Host channel is determined based on the Zip Code you input. They suggest using a Zip Code from a major city in your area. I'll see if this helps but I'm not very hopefull.

I'd like to know if anyone has a Pioneer 533 that is working fine. If so then please describe your setup.

Thanks
Your TVG setup steps all seem to be right on.

I've done all 8 of the steps you describe many times...I like to experiment...and my system works perfectly once I get those 8 steps back in place.

Early on, my system acted exactly like yours (days 1, 2, 8 maybe 3,4,5) but always pooped out with "Rebuilding" message.

I finally discovered the Host STATION my cable co. delivered in my Host CHANNEL (Ch. 10) had had an antenna fire and was operating at half power. Once that station had fixed its antenna and was back up to full power, everything started to work OK.

My hardware setup is analog cable, no cable box, RF coax on RF IN connector of DVR, RF and AV cables to TV, AV cables from VCR to L1 of DVR. I have new RG6 cable inside and three splitters before the DVR, but I also have a 10dB amp (booster) 1st in line before the splitters.

A couple of people have found that signal strength MAY play a role. One turned failure into success by finding a bad coax cable.(?)

See my post above (#326) re: splitters (which WILL reduce signal stength), and a booster to build strength to "survive" those splitters.

If you haven't already and want to find your Host CHANNEL, most anyone in this forum can help.

If you want more "tech. details" about your Host STATION, you can look up that station's Call Sign at
http://www.fccinfo.com/cmdpro.php?sz=L&wd=1280.
If you use this, look for the station's "normal" (OTA) channel # in the LIC row (it may have a + or - for "offset"). Some may have two or more LIC rows with the correct OTA Ch. #...for power, it's "probably" the highest kW#. [Broadcast Engineers: please correct this if important.]

That station and channel info. may help later as you work the problem? (At least it did for me.)

I still chuckle over Treedmack's "dog sled" tale way back on pg 5. By the way Treedmack, are you still "Pioneering" in the great Northwest? Any squirrels in your machine?

Hey wabjxo. Just looked in after a one week vacation from this forum. You gotta know everything is working now up in Victoria given my recent absence in this forum. Since Gemstar sorted a new contract out to cover my area I've got a fully populated listing and an TVGOS that fires on all cylinders.

I see you've been taking it on the chin a bit since page 10. I feel a bit responsible for the "table in the DVR" myth. Some of you might recall that it was I who was so convinced of this fact that I started a new thread to try and get people to provide both their zip/postal code and host channel. It was Sean Nelson who pointed out what a bone-headed idea that was (bone headed being my words here, definitely not Sean's - he's too diplomatic).

Being Canadian I felt like I had to do a little peace making here - it's our only skill next to Olympic hockey, curling, and synchronized swimming - when the ice breakers are available prior to practice sessions that is. Personally, I'll stick with a good lead dog and a fast sled till we get our sighlight back in the spring.

Hey wabjxo. Just looked in after a one week vacation from this forum. You gotta know everything is working now up in Victoria given my recent absence in this forum. Since Gemstar sorted a new contract out to cover my area I've got a fully populated listing and an TVGOS that fires on all cylinders.

I see you've been taking it on the chin a bit since page 10. I feel a bit responsible for the "table in the DVR" myth. Some of you might recall that it was I who was so convinced of this fact that I started a new thread to try and get people to provide both their zip/postal code and host channel. It was Sean Nelson who pointed out what a bone-headed idea that was (bone headed being my words here, definitely not Sean's - he's too diplomatic).

Being Canadian I felt like I had to do a little peace making here - it's our only skill next to Olympic hockey, curling, and synchronized swimming - when the ice breakers are available prior to practice sessions that is. Personally, I'll stick with a good lead dog and a fast sled till we get our sighlight back in the spring.
Fantastic! So glad you're back and everything's working up there now.

I've learned some neat things from you about that rugged Canadian outback you live in, but what the heck is "sighlight"...Canada's equivalent to "light to sigh by"?

(Please note, everyone, that is a TECHNICAL question...in strict accord with the purpose of this forum. I believe it might have something to do with better reception?)

I've learned some neat things from you about that rugged Canadian outback you live in, but what the heck is "sighlight"...Canada's equivalent to "light to sigh by"?I'm Canadian and I don't know that one either... eh? :)

I've learned some neat things from you about that rugged Canadian outback you live in, but what the heck is "sighlight"...Canada's equivalent to "light to sigh by"?


I'm Canadian and I don't know that one either... eh? :)

Hell, I wrote it and even I don't know what it means!

I was trying to write "first light" in mad dash out the office door. Well, in keeping with others in this forum, having wrote it I am now stuck with it and must defend it. Now, let's see...

Ah yes, sighlight. It has a number of meanings. As you know, once you cross from the US into Canada you get the long 24hrs-of-darkness winters we are so famous for up here. Well, on Vancouver Island, "sighlight" is connected to the collective sound that is heard at "first light" when everyone gets a good look at what 4 months of continuous wind and rain can do to the "City of Gardens"

Boy that was close...

I KNEW there was a logical and TECHNICAL reason for your post!

(But it WAS close, especially when you have other "sighlighters" up there keeping tabs on you!)

(But it WAS close, especially when you have other "sighlighters" up there keeping tabs on you!)

Let it go wabjxo, let it go.

And, perhaps it is now time to come clean. All this talk of PBS and Host channels, it's clear that you don't even own a DVR with TVGOS let alone a Pioneer. It hit me a few post ago - all that talk about PBS this, and PBS that. There can be only one reason for trolling these posts when we're getting so close to pledge week wabjxo - or should I say, Jim Lehrer! (Beverly Kirk? I know, I know, Clifford.)

That will work only if the Hartford area of that zipcode is served by the same cable provider and has the same channel line up as you. Also, the host channel on your cable must have EPG data with that zipcode in it. If not, either you will receive no EPG data, or the EPG information that you receive will be useless to you.

Have you tried to receive the EPG data OTA. Maybe the cable provider is screwing around with the VBI and messing up the EPG data. You could hook up a rabbit ears temporarily. Are you near enough to OTA broadcast antenna to receive OTA channels?

The change in zip code so far seems to be working. When I checked the unit on Monday morning, the TVGOS provided two options for Cable Channel Linup. Neither of the options were the same two I usually get when I use my home zip code. The two options were a Comcast and an Adelphia linup. Since I have Comcast cable I chose that one. It immediately displayed the channel linup with "no information" indicated for each channel. When I got home from work Monday night, listings for Monday, Tuesday and the following Monday had been prefilled. I suspect that this pattern will continue until all 8 days are filled. Just to clarify, the Comcast service in Hartford does not offer the same exact linup as what I receive however it seems to be working anyways. I noticed that the Host Channel hasn't changed but the VBI may have changed. Unfortunatly I failed to take note of what it was set to before I started this process. The way I understand it, Gemstar takes the Zip Code you punch into the setup, compares it to a master table that shows which channels in that zip code provide the TVGOS information and will scan those stations and choose one to use as the host channel. If there are more than one potential station in the given zip code I'm not sure how it deterimines which one to use. My guess is that it simply starts scanning in an ascending order until it finds one thats transmitting the info. In my case its Cable Channel 7 which is locally PBS Station Channel 24. If this doesn't work then I'm going to try again with a different Zip Code. I may try my girlfriend's zip code since she has TVGOS built into her TV and she has never had a problem. I'll report back when I have more results.

The change in zip code so far seems to be working. When I checked the unit on Monday morning, the TVGOS provided two options for Cable Channel Linup.

Glad you got it working!

I noticed that the Host Channel hasn't changed but the VBI may have changed.

The VBI Chan is just the channel that TVGOS is currently "listening to" for VBI data. It changes on an ongoing basis as TVGOS flips through the channels.

The way I understand it, Gemstar takes the Zip Code you punch into the setup, compares it to a master table that shows which channels in that zip code provide the TVGOS information and will scan those stations and choose one to use as the host channel.

This isn't how it works at all. Your TV doesn't have any way of sending information (like a zip code) out at all. (There is a similar but different product called Guide+ that may rely on two-way communications.) In a nutshell, each host station broadcasts a list of the zip codes it supports on a pretty much ongoing basis. These are sent in line 14 of the VBI. When your TV is off, TVGOS scans through every available channel (starting at 1 and going up one channel at a time) and checks each one for this zip code list. When it finds a station sending this zip code list, it pauses and reads the list. If your zip code was in the list, it stays on that channel until it downloads one of the periodic channel lineups. If your zip code was not included in the list, it resumes searching. More details are available at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ if you're interested.

If there are more than one host station broadcasting in your area, it is unlikely (but possible) that each of them has data for your zip code. If only one has data for your zip code, TVGOS will find it, though it may pause on the others during its search. If more than one has your zip code's data, TVGOS will use whichever one it finds first.

Glad you got it working!



The VBI Chan is just the channel that TVGOS is currently "listening to" for VBI data. It changes on an ongoing basis as TVGOS flips through the channels.



This isn't how it works at all. Your TV doesn't have any way of sending information (like a zip code) out at all. (There is a similar but different product called Guide+ that may rely on two-way communications.) In a nutshell, each host station broadcasts a list of the zip codes it supports on a pretty much ongoing basis. These are sent in line 14 of the VBI. When your TV is off, TVGOS scans through every available channel (starting at 1 and going up one channel at a time) and checks each one for this zip code list. When it finds a station sending this zip code list, it pauses and reads the list. If your zip code was in the list, it stays on that channel until it downloads one of the periodic channel lineups. If your zip code was not included in the list, it resumes searching. More details are available at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ if you're interested.

If there are more than one host station broadcasting in your area, it is unlikely (but possible) that each of them has data for your zip code. If only one has data for your zip code, TVGOS will find it, though it may pause on the others during its search. If more than one has your zip code's data, TVGOS will use whichever one it finds first.

sderby,
Thanks for the info. I have actually read most of the info on that website after you posted the address in one of your previous posts. Based on what I read I knew that the Host Channel was based on zip code but couldn't explain it as well as you did.

My theory - which I believe many people agree with - is that the issues many of us are experiencing are related to a bad or underpowered host channel. So the real question is how to manually force the unit to utilize a different host channel. Many have suggested turning different channels on or off in the setups which I tried but did not result in any change in the default host channel. After reading the info on tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com it seems that the only way to change the host channel is to change your zip code and hope the new zip code prompts the machine to choose a different host channel. I'll keep you guys informed on my progress.

Have you tried switching the device ends of the cables that feed both units?

Losing EPG "sometimes" may be an indication of a weak signal to the DVR (pure conjecture here!).

One person on this (or another) forum had a similar experience, but found that his cable to the DVR was "defective"...losing 7dB. When he replaced the cable, everything was fine.

In my system (and only mine), I also found that a weak signal made a difference.

You have an IDEAL situation to test this (and many other problem "theories") in your system: two diff. mfgrs, one unit working and one not, so it's not the STATION's signal strength or the antenna, AND EPG actually works, sometimes, so it's probably not your TVG Setup.

If you kept your cables in the splitter in their same ports, but switched the device ends, that would be a very simple but "pure" test...it would test both the splitter and the cables. Some splitters have -2dB ports and one or more -7dB ports, and many don't mark which are which. There MIGHT even be cheaper-than-cheap splitters that lose more signal from some or all ports...hey, maybe that's why I see some splitters marking their ports and some with no indication of the dB loss (pure conjecture here)?

With you being on OTA and having a splitter in line (where ALL ports lose some signal strength), a little dB could make a difference?

If that doesn't change things, it is theoretically possible (sorry for all the mealymouthed wording, but it IS necessary) that the Pioneer system is more sensitive to signal strength (and fluctuations?) than other systems for TVGOS to work.

To test that, you could install a ("mild," not too strong?) signal booster before the splitter (if you don't have one already).

I have a booster in my cable run before any of my splitters, and I have three splitters in line...all ports marked with dB loss...before my signal reaches the DVR! I have cable service and all my splitters and the booster were supplied by my cable company.

Since there may be good and bad boosters (amps) on the market, here are the "specs" on my cable company booster, which unfortunately is not sold to the public...must be supplied to cable companies and others only. Anyway, these "specs" work well (in case you or anyone else wants to find a similar unit):

Qintar, Westlake Village, CA
Cable Spec (registered tradename)
Residential Amp
Digital TV Ready
RAMP2W-1000MS
5-42 MHz Return Path Passive
54-1000 MHz Forward Path 10dB Gain
6 kV Surge Protection

P.S. My cable installers switched my 25-yr-old inside cable to all RG6 (quad-shielded) coax up to my last splitter...they had already switched all their 25-yr-old feed lines system-wide...and it did make a noticeable difference in PQ. Another option for others to try?

If NONE of these make a difference, then I'd have to say "for sure":

PIONEER, WE HAVE A PROBLEM! (Beam me up, Scotty!)


My guide has been working now since Jan 10. Next time it bails, I'll try switching cables and see what result is. Right now I'll just be happy if it continues to work as is.

Thanks.
Rick

The VBI Chan is just the channel that TVGOS is currently "listening to" for VBI data. It changes on an ongoing basis as TVGOS flips through the channels.

Every time I've checked the TVGOS debug screens, the VBI channel was the channel that the recorder was currently tuned to. If I changed the channel, the VBI channel would change to that channel. My guess is that whenever the recorder is on, the TVGOS search is forced the "listen" to that channel for the EPG data. That's why the recorder must be off for the TVGOS EPG data to download. When it's on it is forced to look for the EPG data on the channel that it is tuned to and it can't change the channel.



If there are more than one host station broadcasting in your area, it is unlikely (but possible) that each of them has data for your zip code. If only one has data for your zip code, TVGOS will find it, though it may pause on the others during its search. If more than one has your zip code's data, TVGOS will use whichever one it finds first.

This definitely can happen. I have 2 TVGOS host channels in my area (the CBS station and the ABC station in the Philly area). Sometimes when I check the host channel it is set for the ABC station, sometimes for the CBS station. Perhaps in a large metropolitan area like Philly, TVGOS decided to have more than 1 host channel to cover all the zipcodes.

My theory - which I believe many people agree with - is that the issues many of us are experiencing are related to a bad or underpowered host channel. So the real question is how to manually force the unit to utilize a different host channel. Many have suggested turning different channels on or off in the setups which I tried but did not result in any change in the default host channel. After reading the info on tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com it seems that the only way to change the host channel is to change your zip code and hope the new zip code prompts the machine to choose a different host channel. I'll keep you guys informed on my progress.

If you are receiving signal from a cable provider, I can't see how the signal can be weak. The cable provider should be sending a strong signal. Is the picture bad on your host channel? Is the picture is clear, the you should be receiving the EPG data. Try to read the closed captions on your host channel. If you can read the CC, which is also carried in the VBI, I think you should also be able to receive the EPG data.

I don't think changing the zipcode to get a different host channel will work for most people. In order to get the correct channel lineup, you need to get the EPG data from a host channel that includes your zipcode, or a zipcode that is served by your cable provider. With a different zipcode you may get EPG data, but the station/channel correlation will be incorrect and the TVGOS will be useless to set program recordings.

This definitely can happen. I have 2 TVGOS host channels in my area (the CBS station and the ABC station in the Philly area). Sometimes when I check the host channel it is set for the ABC station, sometimes for the CBS station. Perhaps in a large metropolitan area like Philly, TVGOS decided to have more than 1 host channel to cover all the zipcodes.

As I said, it is possible, but it is uncommon. TVGOS pays each of its host stations, so they naturally try to keep the overlap to a minimum. There are some areas where the same region is covered by more than one host station. I don't know the exact reasons behind this, but one possibility that comes to mind is that the OTA transmitters for these stations cover somewhat different geographic regions within the same market. (Remember that TVGOS was created primarily so that OTA folks without cable boxes would have an interactive guide. Cable Card users were just a natural extension.) I'm sure there are other reasons, too, but the main point is that there is no two-way information flow. Each TVGOS device searches for its host station in a systematic way by reading the zip code identity lists broadcast by the host stations.

As I said, it is possible, but it is uncommon. TVGOS pays each of its host stations, so they naturally try to keep the overlap to a minimum. There are some areas where the same region is covered by more than one host station. I don't know the exact reasons behind this, but one possibility that comes to mind is that the OTA transmitters for these stations cover somewhat different geographic regions within the same market. (Remember that TVGOS was created primarily so that OTA folks without cable boxes would have an interactive guide. Cable Card users were just a natural extension.) I'm sure there are other reasons, too, but the main point is that there is no two-way information flow. Each TVGOS device searches for its host station in a systematic way by reading the zip code identity lists broadcast by the host stations.

No disagreement here... :D I was just reporting my experience. Most of the time the ABC station is the host channel, but once in a while the CBS station comes up. I wish we could hear from others in the Philly area so that we can hear their experience.

For those of you with a Panasonic unit living in Canada, this may be of interest to you.

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/notice2.asp

For those of you with a Panasonic unit living in Canada, this may be of interest to you.

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/notice2.asp

I think this is important for ANYONE living in canada.

I just called my Alabama Public TV (APT) org. engineering supv and got some info. that "may" be interesting to others.

I asked how I got my TVGOS signal from my Host Station (which just happens to be PBS WAIQ 150-MILES AWAY, by the way). He reaffirmed many things we learned here (TVGOS data in the VBI, etc.).

I then asked how they get and deliver the data. He said, more or less, that Gemstar sends the channel lineups/times/content stuff via tel. line to Gemstar's encoder in each station's broadcast system. The stations have no control and have even asked for DEcoders so they could monitor the signal (i.e., just to "know" when it wasn't working, I guess? not sure they could fix it tho' if they wanted). So far, Gemstar has either said no or not responded.

I asked how, more specifically he thinks I get my ANALOG TVGOS data from their Host station to my cable co. then to me. He confirmed that the TVGOS signal is analog, sent via each stations OTA antenna, which my cable co. picks up. He wasn't sure how much "station power" has to do with TVGOS, but he did wonder why my cable co. chose to point towards an OTA antenna 150 miles away. He thinks they would rather point to a closer station, of which I have two about 50 miles away. But, he reiterated that it "depends on where they're pointing."

He is also checking to make sure the Gemstar encoders are "working properly" (because I told him things had deteriorated in my TVGOS system in the last week or so...ever since I did my last "experiment"--turning OFF my Host channel...after working perfectly for a long while).

I may find more info. tomorrow when I call him back for that info.

Hey, something just occurred to me: Could my cable co. ACTUALLY be delivering me one of the 50-mile station's signal (WBIQ or WHIQ), but Gemstar data says my Host is 150-mile WAIQ, a "far stretch" (?) for an OTA antenna (altho' WAIQ IS the most powerful PBSer in Alabama).

That would be an interesting thing, possibly leading to "more perfect enlightenment"!????

_______________
wabjxo - The P B.S. man

I have a few questions, and all feedback is appreciated.

treedmack and wabjxo, each of you may be able to answer my questions more readily.

I just purchased a Pioneer 533 based on the reviews of its recording quality, the fact that it has a DV input, and ease of use once it is set up. My intent is to use it to record anything that comes through my cable box with the exception of copy-protected content. I am a customer of Shaw Cable in the Edmonton, Canada area. I'm not particularly a dummy when it comes to configuring any of my toys, but there are a few things WRT the 533 that have me somewhat aggravated. Note that so far I have not tried the "Eureka" method of disabling the TVGOS option and truth be known, if I can get the TVGOS to work that is my preference. It would make my wife much happier. OK, my system configuration is thus:

- My cable comes out of the wall and splits (using a high-quality amplified splitter).
I then have a cable from the splitter directly to the RF IN on the DVR-533.
- The second cable goes to my Motorola HD cable box
- I also have my cable box connected to the DVR-533 via an S-video & audio
outputs into L1 of the DVR-533.

So basically I have an analog signal connected to the RF IN, but I still want to be able to record digital cable. I also have the G-Link wand connected to the DVR-533, and it can communicate with the cable box just fine. Is this the best way to configure the DVR-533 / cable box combination?

Now that I've told the 533 that I have a cable box connected to L1, it ignores the fact that there is something connected at RF IN. It looks like it wants one or the other, not both. When I shut the 533 down, it goes into EPG mode just like it's supposed to, and starts changing channels on the cable box to find the TVGOS host station. However, what seems to happen is that it gets hung up on the cable system's "splash screen" that comes up whenever the cable box changes channels. Another side effect of this is that we can't watch anything through the cable box, because the 533 keeps trying to change the channels on us. Is this what it's supposed to do?

Is there a way to force the machine to search for the TVGOS carrier on RF IN and leave the cable box alone (keeping in mind that when I record programs, I like the fact that the 533 will automatically change the channel for me).

Is there a way to force the EPG to "look at" only one channel for TVGOS information and stop bouncing from one channel to the next?

Thanks to everyone who replies.

Doug

I have a few questions, and all feedback is appreciated.

treedmack and wabjxo, each of you may be able to answer my questions more readily.
Sorry, Doug, I don't have a cable box, so no insight. However, I just found some interesting info on splitters which might be affecting signal strength in some systems...if you ever get down to that level of troubleshooting.

I did notice, tho', that you said you told the 533 that you had a box connected to L1 when you elsewhere said it was connected via S-Video? Am I confused, or is the 533?

Sorry, Doug, I don't have a cable box, so no insight. However, I just found some interesting info on splitters which might be affecting signal strength in some systems...if you ever get down to that level of troubleshooting.

I did notice, tho', that you said you told the 533 that you had a box connected to L1 when you elsewhere said it was connected via S-Video???


Yes. I'm running two O/P's from my cable box - one to the television via component video, and one to the 533 via S-Video (on L1 input). I also have an analog cable feed directly from the wall to the RF IN input . My hope was that I could force the 533 to use the analog line to RF IN for EPG, while still being able to record digital channels from the cable box. Doesn't seem to work - it looks like the 533 only likes to see its signals from one source. I tried telling it that I had the cable box hooked up AND had an source connected to the antenna as well, but that went nowhere fast.

In retrospect, maybe that's a mistake. Should I use the RF out from the 533 to go to my cable box? If I do that, though, I still need some way of getting my digital channels back to the recorder.

By the way, I addressed the signal strength issue when I installed the splitter by installing an excellent quality video amp at the line into the house.

- Doug

Should I use the RF out from the 533 to go to my cable box? If I do that, though, I still need some way of getting my digital channels back to the recorder.This is a pretty common way to hook things up. Then just connect S-Video and audio from the Cable Box to the DVD Recorder.

Is there a way to force the machine to search for the TVGOS carrier on RF IN and leave the cable box alone (keeping in mind that when I record programs, I like the fact that the 533 will automatically change the channel for me).I'm on Shaw in Vancouver, using a Motorola DCT2000 set-top box (STB) to receive digital channels. Here's what I've done which may well solve your problems:

- RF Cable from the wall jack to the RF IN of my Pioneer 633.
- RF Cable from the Pioneer RF OUT to the STB RF IN
- S-Video cable from the STB to the Pioneer L1 IN and to my AV receiver (which acts as a switch box for this and other inputs to the TV set)

When I set up the Pioneer, I told it I had an antenna instead of a cable box, and I don't use the IR blaster. So the Pioneer never tries to control the cable box. When I turn the Pioneer off, it automatically scans and picks up the EPG data directly from the RF IN - this is completely transparent and not something you can see happening except from the "EPG" legend in the display.

This works very well for me. I can schedule and/or record any analogue channel directly from the RF input by specifying the channel number. For digital channels, I manually program the Pioneer to record from the L1 input at the correct time, and I separately program the STB using it's "record to VCR" feature to turn on and tune the correct channel at the same time. It's a little more work to do the programming, but it's never failed me and I don't have to worry about the IR blaster not working quite right or having the cable box "possessed" by an EPG channel-changin demon... :)

Hey, something just occurred to me: Could my cable co. ACTUALLY be delivering me one of the 50-mile station's signal (WBIQ or WHIQ), but Gemstar data says my Host is 150-mile WAIQ, a "far stretch" (?) for an OTA antenna (altho' WAIQ IS the most powerful PBSer in Alabama).

Good information.

Do you get WAIQ on your cable system? If so, that explains why WAIQ could be your TVGOS host channel/station. Do you also get WBIQ and WHIQ? If so, your cable provider has decided to offer 3 PBS stations on its system. I actually have 4 PBS stations on my system. Receiving a signal 150 miles away should be no problem for a cable company. I imagine they could have an antenna nearby to pickup the signal and then microwave it back to their headquarters.

Good information.

Do you get WAIQ on your cable system? If so, that explains why WAIQ could be your TVGOS host channel/station. Do you also get WBIQ and WHIQ? If so, your cable provider has decided to offer 3 PBS stations on its system. I actually have 4 PBS stations on my system. Receiving a signal 150 miles away should be no problem for a cable company. I imagine they could have an antenna nearby to pickup the signal and then microwave it back to their headquarters.
OK, now we're getting somewhere...actually, I am anyway, not sure if anyone else can learn anything from this.

I guess I can assume that my cable co. is not "fooling" me with WAIQ's call sign as my "designated" (ON) channel for PBS. A 150-mile OTA signal is probably do-able.

I only have one PBS channel in my "Basic Cable" pkg. In my OFF channels, I have three other PBS stations, WBIQ, WCIQ, WHIQ. Those are the ones I've been "replacing" WAIQ with (when it had an antenna fire) and finding some difference in TVGOS perf.

Are your 4 PBS stations all ON "naturally," i.e., delivered as normal channels in your cable pkg? Of course, in your case, PBS is not your TVGOS station, so I guess we're comparing apples and oranges?

I'm still intrigued, however, with the possibility that the Gemstar channel data they send to a station, with no outside input or control, could be somewhat "artificial" or not "current" with respect to the "situation on the ground," so to speak.

What if Gemstar data is what they think my situation "should be" at my Zip Code, so the TVGOS interface shows me that GEMSTAR-generated layout (station IDs and all), but my local cable co. is actually delivering me a DIFFERENT station's signal? Why? Because the cable co. "made a recent change," or "there's no diff." in the program content from multiple stations," etc....there could be many reasons.

What diff. would this make? Well, maybe I shouldn't be checking on WAIQ's encoder, but WBIQ's or WHIQ's. If the engrg supv tells me WAIQ's encoder is OK, will I be left with an erroneous conclusion that I have some OTHER problem instead of JUST THE WRONG STATION!?

I really need to find out if I AM receiving an OTA signal from 150 miles away! If not, it's only Gemstar's "assumption" that my Host should be WAIQ. Wow!

Sorry! My mind has gone to a far galaxy at warp speed now, so I better stop. (Everyone breathes a "sighlight" of relief.)

So now, assuming that idea is "hairbrained," we could be down to this: if Gemstar isn't "spot on" (as they like to say at the Empress Hotel in that outpost called Victoria) ALL...THE...TIME, we WILL inevitably have good and bad days with our TVGOS. Even the stations won't know something is wrong unless viewers let them know. Gemstar apparently doesn't want the stations to get involved via real-time monitoring or, God forbid, data repair!?

Gemstar has our sanity in their hands? What an insane position!

I'm still intrigued, however, with the possibility that the Gemstar channel data they send to a station, with no outside input or control, could be somewhat or totally "articificial" with respect to the "situation on the ground," so to speak.

What if Gemstar data is what they think my situation "should be" at my Zip Code, so the TVGOS interface shows me that GEMSTAR-generated layout (station IDs and all), but my local cable co. is actually delivering me a DIFFERENT station's signal "because there's no diff." in the program content here in Alabama? (There really isn't...all "local" content is State-related, not area-related.) No brickbats please: Disclaimer: this is NOT the case everywhere, right?It's certainly possible for Gemstar to get it's channel lineups mixed up or out of date with local conditions. For example, our local cable provider recently switched analogue channel 46 from HGTV to TCM. (They may have moved HGTV somewhere else on the dial, but I haven't followed that). Somewhere along the line Gemstar has to be told about this change so that it can broadcast the appropriate EPG data for our zip/postal code area. I can imagine a zillion ways that this could get screwed up.

As it turns out, right now my EPG (when it works) shows data for HGTV and for TCM, both on channel 46.

OK, now we're getting somewhere...actually, I am anyway, not sure if anyone else can learn anything from this.

I guess I can assume that my cable co. is not "fooling" me with WAIQ's call sign as my "designated" (ON) channel for PBS. A 150-mile OTA signal is probably do-able.

I only have one PBS channel in my "Basic Cable" pkg. In my OFF channels, I have three other PBS stations, WBIQ, WCIQ, WHIQ. Those are the ones I've been "replacing" WAIQ with (when it had an antenna fire) and finding some difference in TVGOS perf.

When you say that you have only 1 PBS station in your cable pkg, which of the 4 you mentioned is the cable-provided PBS station?

Are your 4 PBS stations all ON "naturally," i.e., delivered as normal channels in your cable pkg? Of course, in your case, PBS is not your TVGOS station, so I guess we're comparing apples and oranges?

Yes, the 4 PBS stations are all included with my cable subscription. Curious, though, that none of them are my TVGOS host station.

I'm still intrigued, however, with the possibility that the Gemstar channel data they send to a station, with no outside input or control, could be somewhat "artificial" or not "current" with respect to the "situation on the ground," so to speak.

What if Gemstar data is what they think my situation "should be" at my Zip Code, so the TVGOS interface shows me that GEMSTAR-generated layout (station IDs and all), but my local cable co. is actually delivering me a DIFFERENT station's signal? Why? Because the cable co. "made a recent change," or "there's no diff." in the program content from multiple stations," etc....there could be many reasons.

It is quite possible, as Sean says below, that the TVGOS data for your zipcode may be incorrect.

What diff. would this make? Well, maybe I shouldn't be checking on WAIQ's encoder, but WBIQ's or WHIQ's. If the engrg supv tells me WAIQ's encoder is OK, will I be left with an erroneous conclusion that I have some OTHER problem instead of JUST THE WRONG STATION!?

I really need to find out if I AM receiving an OTA signal from 150 miles away! If not, it's only Gemstar's "assumption" that my Host should be WAIQ. Wow!

Here's where I get a little confused. I assume that you are basing your assumption that WAIQ is your TVGOS host station because the channel number that is displayed in the TVGOS debug screen matches the channel on which you receive WAIQ, correct? Why are you unsure of which PBS channel you are receiving on your cable system? When you watch the programs, which call letters are displayed, and on which channel does the station appear?

Sorry! My mind has gone to a far galaxy at warp speed now, so I better stop. (Everyone breathes a "sighlight" of relief.)

So now, assuming that idea is "hairbrained," we could be down to this: if Gemstar isn't "spot on" (as they like to say at the Empress Hotel in that outpost called Victoria) ALL...THE...TIME, we WILL inevitably have good and bad days with our TVGOS. Even the stations won't know something is wrong unless viewers let them know. Gemstar apparently doesn't want the stations to get involved via real-time monitoring or, God forbid, data repair!?

Gemstar has our sanity in their hands? What an insane position!

Unless the TVGOS is run by different groups over different parts of the country (countries?), I don't think that the EPG is that unreliable. Why, because I have had no such variability in service since I began using the TVGOS last summer. If it is reliable for me, then it should be reliable over the whole system. I suppose, however, that there could be "local pockets" of instability caused by malfunctioning equipment, or local changes in cable line-ups.

Very good discussion.

When you say that you have only 1 PBS station in your cable pkg, which of the 4 you mentioned is the cable-provided PBS station?
I have only one PBS CHANNEL, and the station ID for the one that is auotmatically ON is WAIQ.
Here's where I get a little confused. I assume that you are basing your assumption that WAIQ is your TVGOS host station because the channel number that is displayed in the TVGOS debug screen matches the channel on which you receive WAIQ, correct? Why are you unsure of which PBS channel you are receiving on your cable system? When you watch the programs, which call letters are displayed, and on which channel does the station appear?
My State, Alabama, has a PBS/PTV "network" of 9 stations, all under the "wing" of Alabama PTV (APTV), with a Network Ops Ctr (NOC). At least 26 other states copied this NOC plan. When we watch a PBS STATION in any part of our state, we all see the same programming...local content is Alabama-related...unless you're near our state border where a cable co. might choose to add a PBS station from a neighboring state, so they may see different content if they watch that channel, e.g., people in Wyoming have only one State PBS station, but they're served by stations from five other states, so their programming can easily be different.

I don't have any PBS stations from another state 'cause I'm not close to our state's border.

With this arrangement, MY single PBS channel doesn't display any station call signs in their video...only the APTV or PBS logo

I'm still not absolutely convinced I'm receiving the station (WAIQ) my Channel display list shows only because even the PBS engr was baffled by why they are sending me the signal from a station 3x farther away than they have to. If I can find out, somewhow, that I am NOT actually receiving that far-away station, even tho' Gemstar tells me that's the station, then I'm going to that galaxy far away and try to get my sanity back...the ramifications are endless, I think. What if we're living in a world created by Gemstar when we're thinking it's a reality show?

Digressing some, sorry...AND if Gemstar is using tel. lines to send data, let me tell you my "real squirrel" story (not the nano-ones in my machine).

I use dial-up modem, getting 52K speed all the time...except when it rained. Depending on how much rain, my speed went to 36 or even 28.Called tel. guy and he finally found a junction box or lines that had been "CHEWED UP BY A SQUIRREL." His words, not mine...Honest to God.

Imagine the billions of miles of tel. line Gemstar is depending on and the number of squirrels, not to mention moles, dogs (without sleds), etc. that could affect our beloved TVGOS!!!!!!!!?????????

AND ANOTHER THING, how can Gemstar have a TVG CHANNEL that works flawlessly, and even has a clock, while they give US squirrels and moles, etc. Why don't they just add an interface that we can manipulate keyed to that channel, with its more reliable satellite upload/download, and bypass the squirrels!

WHile I'm on my soapbox, I am announcing my candidacy for the congress!

Very funny....TVGOS and squirrels... :D

I guess the Alabama statewide PBS network explains why you don't know which of the satellite stations is actually providing the signal for the programs that you watch. I'm surprised that they can get away with not displaying the call letters for the broadcasting station...I thought that was an FCC thing...I guess not.

I can see why you don't know which PBS station the TVGOS EPG data is actually coming from. Here in the Philly area, the 4 PBS stations I receive on my cable are all independent, and there (as far as I know) is no PA statewide PBS network. In fact 1 of the PBS stations that I get comes from NJ.

Good luck in hunting down the solution to the GREAT TVGOS MYSTERY...

This is a pretty common way to hook things up. Then just connect S-Video and audio from the Cable Box to the DVD Recorder.

But basically I already have it connected like that - I'm not using the RF out from the 533 to the cable box, but rather a unique RF connection from a splitter to each device. So there's no reason to change it. However, if I want the G-Link to work (in order to satisfy a domestic requirement) I have to tell the 533 that it has a cable box attached to it - once that happens it could care less what's coming in on the RF IN input.

- Doug

When I set up the Pioneer, I told it I had an antenna instead of a cable box, and I don't use the IR blaster. So the Pioneer never tries to control the cable box. When I turn the Pioneer off, it automatically scans and picks up the EPG data directly from the RF IN - this is completely transparent and not something you can see happening except from the "EPG" legend in the display.


When you tell the Pioneer you have the antenna connected, doesn't that limit the number of analog channels the Pioneer "looks at"?

Also, does anyone know if there is any way to "force" the 533 to "look" at one, single, unique channel for its EPG data?

- Doug

Here in the Philly area, the 4 PBS stations I receive on my cable are all independent, and there (as far as I know) is no PA statewide PBS network. In fact 1 of the PBS stations that I get comes from NJ.
For those who have PBS as their Host station, I found a good website for finding their "in-state" stations, and whether it's a network of stations or indiv. affiliates...if they're interested:
http://www.apts.org/getinvolved/Find_Your_PTV_Station.cfm

That site shows all the stations for each state on one page...loads very slowly with dialup since they post all station/network logos...and in it you can clearly see which states have a "NOC," or Network Ops Ctr, and which have individual affiliates.

The NOC states have only one entry, usually being ID'd as a "Network," while separate-affiliate states have a number of stations listed separately. I counted about 28-29 NOC states.

Both California and Pennsylvania (mentioned in this thread by others) are states that have individual affiliates.

You'll still need the PBS station finder website at
http://www.pbs.org/stationfinder/index.html
to see ALL the PBS stations that serve your area..it's zip-code-specific.

rgazzara: do you suppose your Host is NOT PBS is because you're OTA, or just because you're Panasonic? Could be another piece of this "reverse-engineering" puzzle...which we COULD all stop, but there might be a "spark" in it that could enlighten us all as to the reality/fiction show called Gemstar, which seems to be the "keystone" of our TVGOS!? AND, if Gemstar refuses to share with or get its delivering stations involved, OUR odds of getting info or help from them is likely to be 0-to-the-minus-ninth-power.

But basically I already have it connected like that - I'm not using the RF out from the 533 to the cable box, but rather a unique RF connection from a splitter to each device. So there's no reason to change it. However, if I want the G-Link to work (in order to satisfy a domestic requirement) I have to tell the 533 that it has a cable box attached to it - once that happens it could care less what's coming in on the RF IN input.

- Doug
I understand now. You are asking the same question as in this Topic: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638662

Unfortunately we found out there that it can't be done. The 533 wants to either tune everything from RF, or tune everything through Cable Box, it can't mix them. "Domestic requirements" notwithstanding, I'd go with the RF, and manually tune anything I wanted to record from Cable Box. That leaves more options open in terms of recording one thing and watching another.

Wab,

Well, I think I jinxed my set. I lost the TVGOS yesterday, sometime between 11:00am and 4:00 pm.

In any event, I went into set up, changed my sip to another in same town and waited overnight. This morning still no channel line-up, so I went in and reset the TVGOS only using the codes for TVGOS reset. It kept my schedule, although they are all greyed out now.

While doint this I went ahead and switched my cables between the TV and the 531. I found out that the coax that was feeding my tv, actually was routed through a VCR. the One to the 531 was direct from splitter to pio RF in. I switched them anyway.

By the way the TVGOS on the TV did not go out, only the on PIO 531 TVGOS.

I'll post the progress.

Didn't someone in here have multiple 531's hooked up? What is there experience with losing the EPG? do both lose it at same time?

Rick

rgazzara,

Here's a post from another thread, which you may already have read. but others may also find interesting, "suggesting" that cable (me) and OTA (you) signals may be somewhow "different" in the TVGOS world. (See esp. red text...maybe why you haven't seen the turmoil the cable users have???)

Originally Posted by TorontoJack
Here's an email reply from Panasonic Canada regarding the issue:

***
Thank you for your e-mail. Please be advised that the TV Guide on Screen is currently down in the greater Toronto area. The Gemstar engineers and Rogers are currently working on correcting the problem and anticipate that it may take up to a few weeks before the situation is resolved. Your patience is appreciated.

Sincerely,
Customer Care Centre
Panasonic Canada Inc.
***

A few more weeks... bleghhh.... no mention of why the OTA listings are still coming in fine. Not much need to contact Rogers now either I guess, as Panasonic has confirmed that they are working on it with Gemstar.

Wab,

Well, I think I jinxed my set. I lost the TVGOS yesterday, sometime between 11:00am and 4:00 pm.

In any event, I went into set up, changed my sip to another in same town and waited overnight. This morning still no channel line-up, so I went in and reset the TVGOS only using the codes for TVGOS reset. It kept my schedule, although they are all greyed out now.

While doint this I went ahead and switched my cables between the TV and the 531. I found out that the coax that was feeding my tv, actually was routed through a VCR. the One to the 531 was direct from splitter to pio RF in. I switched them anyway.

By the way the TVGOS on the TV did not go out, only the on PIO 531 TVGOS.

I'll post the progress.

Didn't someone in here have multiple 531's hooked up? What is there experience with losing the EPG? do both lose it at same time?

Rick
Too bad you didn't also "re-enter and toggle" all the TVG SETUP options this am to test that "theory." (Maybe you did but just didn't mention it?)

There is also the poss. that the TV gets its TVGOS data from a diff. Host CHANNEL and STATION than the Pio (which is "probably" a PBS channel/station). Any way to see what the Host ch/sta is for the TV...and what is your Host ch/sta for the Pio?

You're narrowing your search for a solution down now, and the Station info might be an important key (e.g.., one station with a Gemstar encoder problem and not in the other...seems to happen "often" enough to be noticeable?

Since stations can't tell, in real time, when the Gemstar encoder is bad (no coop. from Gemstar), viewer complaints seem to be the only way stations are prompted to "check" them.

rgazzara,

Here's a post from another thread, which you may already have read. but others may also find interesting, "suggesting" that cable (me) and OTA (you) signals may be somewhow "different" in the TVGOS world. (See esp. red text...maybe why you haven't seen the turmoil the cable users have???)

Yes, I saw the posts. But you are mistaken that I get my signal OTA. I get it from Comcast cable in the Philly area. I have a cable box for the digital channels, but I have my system setup so that the recorder uses a direct RF input for the TVGOS-based recordings. The digital channels get recorded via the a/v cable input and manual timer settings.

Maybe you are confusing me with someone else...?

Maybe you are confusing me with someone else...?
Oops! Now I see it's only because you often advize others to check their TVGOS using an OTA antenna.

Hi all, thanks for all the info in this post.

I have a 531 from WalMart and have had similar issues. Here is my story.

I bought the unit on 12/27 and the TVGOS worked fine until 1/13 and started losing listings a day at a time until they were all gone. I tried the factory reset method and no good.

I contacted Pioneer tech support on 1/20 and was given a case number and told that Pioneer would get back to me. On 1/24, I called them back and was told that my case was closed and was being worked by Gemstar and that Gemstar would call me, they never did.

On 1/26, I contacted our local host channel 12 KBMT and talked with the engineer. He told me the Gemstar unit consist of only single rack unit with a power cord, phone line in, and an inserter line out. It has nothing on it to tell him that it is working or not. I gave him the Gemstar support number from this forum to try for help.

On 1/27, Pioneer left me a message that an equipment problem had been identified in my area and that I needed to do a factory reset per the manual. Well, this is one of the things that I had tried, but I did it again for grins. No good.

On 1/31, I called Pioneer tech support again, gave them the case number. This time he said I needed to do a TVGOS reset, not a unit reset. I thought I had done this but I had the wrong code somehow.

So I entered the right code, and the unit seems to be gathering data. In about two hours, I had channels in the guide. This morning, I could hear it chattering away again, something it hadn't been doing since I lost listings. So my fingers are crossed for good results tonight.

Thanks again.

BTW, the instructions that I have for the TVGOS reset are:
Press the TVGUIDE button on the remote
Arrow left to SETUP
Arrow down once (do not press enter)
Enter 753159852 (gray screens appear)
Enter 653274147 (I think the unit turned off and back on)
I then re-entered the setup information for TVGOS, even though it was still there.

Too bad you didn't also "re-enter and toggle" all the TVG SETUP options this am to test that "theory." (Maybe you did but just didn't mention it?)

There is also the poss. that the TV gets its TVGOS data from a diff. Host CHANNEL and STATION than the Pio (which is "probably" a PBS channel/station). Any way to see what the Host ch/sta is for the TV...and what is your Host ch/sta for the Pio?

You're narrowing your search for a solution down now, and the Station info might be an important key (e.g.., one station with a Gemstar encoder problem and not in the other...seems to happen "often" enough to be noticeable?

Since stations can't tell, in real time, when the Gemstar encoder is bad (no coop. from Gemstar), viewer complaints seem to be the only way stations are prompted to "check" them.

I went through all the TVGOS setup options on the PIO. not sure if I toggled them or not. My pio host channel is our local PBS station. I can't get into the setup on the Toshiba tv using the TVGOS code that works on Pioneer, but I'm pretty confidant that it's the same host channel, I only have the one PBS station in my area.

I'm also confidant that this isn't a problem with the TVGOS broadcast signal, it's a problem with the way this system has been integrated into the DVD recorder. I also notice that the Guide in the TV works slightly different than what is in my Pio. In the Pio, when I'm in a TVGOS listing and press a number key, I get a menu on left that let's me choose to move forward or backward that many hours or tune to that channel. When I do this on tv, it simply tunes to that channel. So the guide is implemented slightly different.

In any event, I'm tyring to leave the Pio turned off until later hopign that I get some channel data. I have some recordings scheduled, but after the reset, I see that while they're still listed, they are now grayed out, which I think means that TVGOS can't find them. I suspect they won't record tonight, so I need to watch and see what happens.

I sure hope all of this talk about this being a Gemstar problem doesn't give Pioneer the idean that they've gotten off the hook. It is still their problem, not Gemstars.

Rick

When you tell the Pioneer you have the antenna connected, doesn't that limit the number of analog channels the Pioneer "looks at"?No. The Pioneer can tune to any analogue channel that is receivable via the RF cable connection. When you do the initial setup it scans all the channels to see which are tunable (ie, which one have an actual signal on them).

Note that the tunable channels and the initial scan that determines them have nothing whatsoever to do with the EPG except that, if the only available EPG data is a channel that is not tunable (for example, it's signal was so weak that the initial scan didn't count it as a valid channel), then you won't be able to receive the EPG data. But if this is the case you're still able to manually change the tunable channel list, if needed (via "Home Menu" button -> "Initial Setup" -> "Tuner" -> "Manual CH Setting")

Once the initial setup is completed, the EPG then does it's own scan using the tunable channels to find one which carries EPG data for the zip/postal code you entered. From this data it builds the channel lineup you see when you go into the EPG screens. You can edit the EPG channel lineup (via "TV Guide" button -> "Setup" -> "Change Channel Display"), but that does not affect the basic tunable channel list.

On 1/26, I contacted our local host channel 12 KBMT...
Very interesting! I believe you're the first PIONEER user to post here that has confirmed that he/she has a COMMERCIAL station (KBMT), not PBS/PTV/EDU, as the Host for TVGOS.

It would be nice to know how that works...let us know if it flakes out? (Of course, check the Gemstar genie at KBMT first!)

Strange that several things happened around mid-Jan:
Your TVGOS flaked out.
Mine got flaky.
Toronto lost theirs!
AND
The TVG Channel (another Gemstar "product") changed its format! (Hmmm!)

My pio host channel is our local PBS station. I can't get into the setup on the Toshiba tv using the TVGOS code that works on Pioneer, but I'm pretty confidant that it's the same host channel, I only have the one PBS station in my area.
Try the re-entry and toggle thing if you get another chance. (Select "My system settings are wrong" or whatever that 3rd choice says.)

Also, don't be confident that the TOSHIBA's Host is PBS...rgazzara's Host is a Commercial (ABC or CBS) station for his PANASONICS. It really would be nice to know for sure, since you really do have a unique system for troubleshooting purposes.

I tried the "toggle everything" trick, and now I have guide info.
Maybe my scarifice to the squirrel gods helped...

Brian

Very interesting! I believe you're the first PIONEER user to post here that has confirmed that he/she has a COMMERCIAL station (KBMT), not PBS/PTV/EDU, as the Host for TVGOS.


We don't have a tunable PBS channel here. We are 90 miles from Houston and 60 miles from Lake Charles, LA.

Very interesting! I believe you're the first PIONEER user to post here that has confirmed that he/she has a COMMERCIAL station (KBMT), not PBS/PTV/EDU, as the Host for TVGOS.

Not true Clifford! In Victoria we verified that CBC (national network) provided original TVGOS. When this lapsed for about a month and we were without TVGOS data it was eventually replaced with CTV, one of the other national networks in Can.

Strange that several things happened around mid-Jan:
Your TVGOS flaked out.
Mine got flaky.
Toronto lost theirs!
AND
The TVG Channel (another Gemstar "product") changed its format! (Hmmm!)

Funny, mid january was the time up here that all things seemed to sort themselves out. I believe that a conservation principle is at work here: Conservation of misery!

Got home and confirmed listings are back!

Thanks again for the help.

Oops! Now I see it's only because you often advize others to check their TVGOS using an OTA antenna.

Yes... :D

Not true Clifford!
I KNEW I could smoke you out by leaving out "in the U.S."!!!

First I'd like to thank the helpful people in the forum who have helped me out with advice and general knowledge - treedmack, wabjaxo, Sean Nelson...sorry if I missed anyone.

I have altered my basic connections to what is referred around here as "standard": cable out of the wall into my 533 RF IN, RF OUT to my cable box, and a second RF connection straight to my television for some limited PIP capability. In order to be able to record my digital cable channels I have returned a video signal back to the recorder via an S-video cable (the only way I can) and RCA audio cables.

My software setup is identical to Sean's with one exception - rather than telling the 533 that the RF IN was an antenna, I told it it was a cable connection, but also said that it was not a cable box. I have eliminated the use of the G-link cable. It is in the process of trying to download the TVGOS data - I'll let you know how that turns out. To record digital channels I have to set both the cable box AND the recorder, but that's a small inconvenience (to me, anyway). My domestic equivalent is still having some trouble, and is royally pissed that the HD content is copy-protected (she wanted to "tape" The Biggest Loser and American Idiot...sorry...Idol).

- Doug

Congrats. I think you made the right choice. That's the way I have my Panasonic set up.

My domestic equivalent is still having some trouble, and is royally pissed that the HD content is copy-protected...- Doug
On that subject, I remember a post somewhere in this forum about a way to copy you-know-what...I tried to find it but couldn't.

It involved setting a TIMER REC program and either playing the source or just letting the TIMER REC program start when the OTA program began???

I tried the former, played a movie, but it immediately showed "Can't Copy" or some such and the TIMER prog. never started, just kept flashing. BUT THEN, I played the source from a separate unit (VCR)...maybe I should have played from the DVR itself (from DVD > HDD)?

The poster claimed something TIMED worked for him, so maybe it involves a broadcast rather than a disc, playing from DVD > HDD same unit, ???

I'm still curious and wish I could find that post again.

Try the re-entry and toggle thing if you get another chance. (Select "My system settings are wrong" or whatever that 3rd choice says.)

Also, don't be confident that the TOSHIBA's Host is PBS...rgazzara's Host is a Commercial (ABC or CBS) station for his PANASONICS. It really would be nice to know for sure, since you really do have a unique system for troubleshooting purposes.

Wab,

I'm not sure why Gemstar would contract with two different providers in this market to provide TVGOS data.

I hope more people keep bugging Pioneer about this, rather than hoping some change in the way Gemstar is doing things. As I keep repeating, this is problem with the implementation of TVGOS in the DVD recorders that needs to be fixed. i.e. Pioneer.

I did get into my Toshiba TV set TVGOS diagnostics, but the HOST Channel wasn't listed, at least not in decimal form. I think it showed OxC and the host channel.


Rick

I did get into my Toshiba TV set TVGOS diagnostics, but the HOST Channel wasn't listed, at least not in decimal form. I think it showed OxC and the host channel.
Darn, sure wish it would have be decipherable!

Anyone have a clue what the "OxC" might be?

Well, it is hexadecimal for 12 in many computer programming languages. Assuming that first character is a zero and not the letter 'O'.

Well, it is hexadecimal for 12 in many computer programming languages. Assuming that first character is a zero and not the letter 'O'.
RICKIE:

If 0xC stands for "12" what STATION would that be?

Also, what is "your area" and your PBS Station and its Channel in your area?

If 0xC stands for "12" what STATION would that be?

Also, what is "your area" and your PBS Station and its Channel in your area?

The host ID doesn't correspond directly to the channel number. It's just an ID that Gemstar assigns to each of their hosts. The actual channel number is in the "Host Chan" field (in base 10) with the format: I:0-C where "I" is the input to use and C is the actual channel number.

I have altered my basic connections to what is referred around here as "standard": cable out of the wall into my 533 RF IN, RF OUT to my cable box, and a second RF connection straight to my television for some limited PIP capability. In order to be able to record my digital cable channels I have returned a video signal back to the recorder via an S-video cable (the only way I can) and RCA audio cables.

My software setup is identical to Sean's with one exception - rather than telling the 533 that the RF IN was an antenna, I told it it was a cable connection, but also said that it was not a cable box. I have eliminated the use of the G-link cable. It is in the process of trying to download the TVGOS data - I'll let you know how that turns out. To record digital channels I have to set both the cable box AND the recorder, but that's a small inconvenience (to me, anyway). My domestic equivalent is still having some trouble, and is royally pissed that the HD content is copy-protected (she wanted to "tape" The Biggest Loser and American Idiot...sorry...Idol).

- Doug

I'm a Rogers digital cable customer in Newmarket, Ontario. My configuration is very close to what you originally described, and it's been working beautifully for a couple of weeks now. The cable from the wall goes into a splitter, and from there into the RF IN connection on my 533. It also goes to my digital cable box. The output from the cable box goes to the L1 input on my 533.

That gives me analog cable on RF IN, and digital cable on L1. In the setup, I told it I had both a cable box and an antenna. By giving it the antenna input on RF IN, it quickly found my TVGOS signal on channel 8 (CTV). I think it could have used channel 808 on my digital cable instead, but watching it cycle through 800 channels in search of a signal is painful!

The channel lineup I received had a mixture of the local OTA and cable channels, and my 533 will happily schedule recordings from either type of channel. So your new configuration is definitely NOT as good as it gets.

Darn, sure wish it would have be decipherable!

Anyone have a clue what the "OxC" might be?

Yes the TVGOS host channel is listed in hexadecimal, and 0xC would be channel 12. So the TVGOS host channel is 12. What station does that correspond to?

Yes the TVGOS host channel is listed in hexadecimal, and 0xC would be channel 12. So the TVGOS host channel is 12. What station does that correspond to?

While 0xC is 12 in hex, it's not likely to be the host channel. It's more likely to be the Host ID, which is an arbitrary ID number associated with each station (not the channel number). I've never seen the host chan in anything other than decimal. For example, 0:0-97 would indicate channel 97, but that station would have a host ID in hex unrelated to its channel tune number.

Are you certain your host *channel* is listed in hex? I've never seen this behavior in TVGOS (though I've always seen the host ID in hex).

While 0xC is 12 in hex, it's not likely to be the host channel. It's more likely to be the Host ID, which is an arbitrary ID number associated with each station (not the channel number). I've never seen the host chan in anything other than decimal. For example, 0:0-97 would indicate channel 97, but that station would have a host ID in hex unrelated to its channel tune number.

Are you certain your host *channel* is listed in hex? I've never seen this behavior in TVGOS (though I've always seen the host ID in hex).

In the TVGOS debug screen on my Panasonic E-500, the host channel is either 0x2 or 0x4, so I can't tell if it is in decimal or hexadecimal since it would be the same in either system. But I have looked at the VBI channel when the tuner is set on a channel above 10, and it is in hexadecimal, so I assume the same to be true for the host channel. For example if I have the recorder on channel 12, the VBI channel is reported as 0xC, which is 12 in hexadecimal. I assume that they would use the same numbering system for the VBI channel and the host channel. I also read somewhere else (can't remember now), that the host channel was listed in hexadecimal. I will try to find that source.

Maybe the TVGOS debug screens differ depending on the equipment? I have noticed that the descriptions you give for the debug screens on your web site are different than the ones I get on my Panasonic.

By the way, I don't recall seeing a "host ID" in my debug screens.

Added in edit:

I just ran across the TVGOS debug info from someone with a Pioneer recorder. Here it is:

Host ID:0x3EE
Host Chan: 1:0-3
VBI Chan 1:0-41

So it appears that the Pioneers follow the system that you describe on your web site, with the host channel and VBI channel being listed as decimal, and the host ID being listed in hexadecimal. However, my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 follow a strictly hexadecimal system.

I just ran across the TVGOS debug info from someone with a Pioneer recorder. Here it is:

Host ID:0x3EE
Host Chan: 1:0-3
VBI Chan 1:0-41

So it appears that the Pioneers follow the system that you describe on your web site, with the host channel and VBI channel being listed as decimal, and the host ID being listed in hexadecimal. However, my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 follow a strictly hexadecimal system.
Very interesting.

Here's a question: When my Pioneer TVGOS was working perfectly for a long time, I posted a response here after checking my Host Chan and it showed simple channel numbers, i.e., Host Chan 10, VBI Chan 4 (or whatever I was tuned to at the time).

Now that my TVGOS got flaky (around mid-Jan along with several others), it shows what you describe: 1:0-10, 1:0-4. (My "EPG" was ON in the display before turning the DVR on.)

Since it's not a leading "I" (for Input) but the number 1, maybe, on PIONEERS anyway, the 1:0 means "sorry, I'm in my flaky mood now"?

Added in edit: I just went to recheck my Host/VBI numbering and it has changed to:
Host Chan 1:0-10
VBI Chan 0:0-0

It was tuned to Ch. 11 this time, BUT the "EPG" was OFF in the display before I turned it on.

Those leading numbers may be indicators of something else, possibly useful in troubleshooting???

Update 2: I checked again several times with "EPG" on and off and found that, when "EPG" is on in display, the VBI Chan shows 1:0-10 no matter what channel I was tuned to, but when "EPG" was off, it shows VBI 0:0-0. Is that 'cause I wasn't giving it much, if any, time to "scan" and find what channel it was tuned to...seems that it should "know" what ch. the tuner was on at all times? But the 0:0-0 thing is weird (or not)?

Just found out that it actually retunes to my Host ch. 10 (from whatever ch. I set it on) when I click off the debug screen. Strange, I've never seen it act this way before?

I have a question that I think has already been answered but I'm too lazy to search through the previous postings. I notice that occasionally when I turn on the unit "Please Wait" is displayed on the LCD and on the TV Screen for about 30 seconds, then it takes about another 30 seconds for the guide to automatically pop up. Now I notice that there are no additional listings populated so what is it doing?

So it appears that the Pioneers follow the system that you describe on your web site, with the host channel and VBI channel being listed as decimal, and the host ID being listed in hexadecimal. However, my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 follow a strictly hexadecimal system.

Interesting! I didn't realize that this was device-specific. That clears up my confusion :)

EDIT: How old is the Panasonic E-500? I seem to remember that there are two versions of the TVGOS software. One version is found in devices manufactured more than about a year ago and another in newer devices. Also, what revision number is shown in your diagnostics screen?

Interesting! I didn't realize that this was device-specific. That clears up my confusion :)

EDIT: How old is the Panasonic E-500? I seem to remember that there are two versions of the TVGOS software. One version is found in devices manufactured more than about a year ago and another in newer devices. Also, what revision number is shown in your diagnostics screen?

My E-500 and E-65 are both 2004 models. I can't remember the exact manufacture date for either of them. So maybe these have an older version? I suppose that we are talking about the "firmware" version of the TVGOS that resides in the recorder, because the "software" version can be updated by TVGOS through the EPG downloads, correct?

I will not be home until Sunday, so I will check the revision number on both the E-500 and the E-65 then.

Very interesting...

I have a question that I think has already been answered but I'm too lazy to search through the previous postings. I notice that occasionally when I turn on the unit "Please Wait" is displayed on the LCD and on the TV Screen for about 30 seconds, then it takes about another 30 seconds for the guide to automatically pop up. Now I notice that there are no additional listings populated so what is it doing?You get the "please wait" when the unit is *really* powered off. When you turn the machine off and it shows "EPG" in the display it isn't *really* powered off, it's scanning for EPG data. In that mode it starts up almost right away. If "EPG" does *not* show in the display then it's *really* powered off and it takes a while to start up (just like a computer does).

Interesting! I didn't realize that this was device-specific. That clears up my confusion :)

EDIT: How old is the Panasonic E-500? I seem to remember that there are two versions of the TVGOS software. One version is found in devices manufactured more than about a year ago and another in newer devices. Also, what revision number is shown in your diagnostics screen?

It sounds like my host channel for the Toshiba TV is channel 12. I have an email in to that station (which is FOX network here), to see if they do indeed carry TVGOS data for Gemstar. I'll recheck my Pio, but last time I was in the debug, it showed a host channel of 10, which is our PBS station here.

There are certainly two differnct versions for the TVGOS at least. The debug screens are quite a bit different from my Pio to my Tosh TV. Tosh TV is 2 years old. I also noted on the TVGOS web site, it lists a number of specific products for one support page, and tells all other products to use a different support page.

Rick

It sounds like my host channel for the Toshiba TV is channel 12. I have an email in to that station (which is FOX network here)...
What is this Fox station's Call Sign?

I'll recheck my Pio, but last time I was in the debug, it showed a host channel of 10, which is our PBS station here.
What is this PBS station's Call Sign?

Some may be interested in a few tech. details I just received from my local PBS engrg supv re: TVGOS. I may make mistakes in trying to relay all this in shortest form possible.

Gemstar made a deal with PBS Datacast to distribute their TVGOS data and that may be why many Pioneer units seem to have PBS as Host.

PBS affiliates get their main signals from PBS HQ (Virginia). If a state has multiple stations with a Network Ops Ctr (NOC), the NOC receives the signal and distributes it to all the stations it controls, within that State, via MW repeaters. Stations are unmanned, w/visits to check things 2x/wk or so. Only thing they can do to Gemstar Genie is keep it plugged in, check tel. line, and reset it.

On the digital side, they use PSIP, which is NOT a Gemstar "product." It involves a "virtual channel" (53 I think he said) with ID 10-1 (the "1" being High Def.). You have to have a High Def receiver to get that "TVGOS" type data in an all-digital environment.

I have had a Pioneer 531 for about a week now. I have the RF input from raw cable from a high quality splitter. The other lead goes to a Pioneer(ironic !) cable box and that box's s-video output comes into the L1 input of the 531.
I set up the TVGOS as cable, no box, RF input. The guide listings are populating O.K. with 5 of the 8 days complete.

:rolleyes: ( As an aside: My EPG data transmissions seem to be during the day, not over night. The EPG symbol may turn on whenever I put the unit in standby but disk activity noise is usually absent late at night but always present in the morning when I wake up and the EPG symbol and disk activity do not stop until between 7 and 8 p.m. I thought I read elsewhere in this thread that the transmission times were all overnight. Anyone else notice daytime activity?)

I have Time Warner Cable here in Raleigh. The non-digital no-converter-needed channels number thru 77. The guide picks up all of these channels in its listings.
So far so good. :)

When I first set up the system I tried to use the L1 input, the G-link blaster and told the Guide that I had a cable box thru L1. It started cycling the box thru all the channels (about 1000 channels, 600 populated with stations). It didn't stop scanning the numbers for over 24 hours and never started populating the guide.

So-- My big question is: Is the TVGOS system capable of recognizing the digital/scrambled/premium channels at all? I know I have read that the guide data is transmitted in analog only but does it contain data for the digital channels relevant for specific cable systems? Is there any chance of getting guide data for digital cable channels?

( As an aside: My EPG data transmissions seem to be during the day, not over night. The EPG symbol may turn on whenever I put the unit in standby but disk activity noise is usually absent late at night but always present in the morning when I wake up and the EPG symbol and disk activity do not stop until between 7 and 8 p.m. I thought I read elsewhere in this thread that the transmission times were all overnight. Anyone else notice daytime activity?)

In most (but not all) areas, program listing transmissions begin at about 2:20am, 7:00am, 10:00am and 1:45pm. They last 3 hours each. The exception is in areas where the host station goes off the air at night. Different data (channel lineups, firmware upgrades, advertising, etc.) is transmitted at other times during the day, but with the normal schedule there is nothing transmitted between 7 and 8pm *shrug*. If you're really interested, go into the diagnostic screen and navigate to the "DLSched" screen of the "VBI" diagnostics. It'll show the times (in GMT) of all the scheduled downloads.

So-- My big question is: Is the TVGOS system capable of recognizing the digital/scrambled/premium channels at all? I know I have read that the guide data is transmitted in analog only but does it contain data for the digital channels relevant for specific cable systems? Is there any chance of getting guide data for digital cable channels?

Not sure what you mean by "recognize" the digital channels. TVGOS gets all of its data off of a single channel (your host channel). When it searches, it's looking for a host channel (not program listing data). Having said that, yes, TVGOS will most likely have listings for most of your channels (digital and all). It won't have listings for the local oddball cable channels, though (like public access channels). For example, my cable lineup has about 300 channels (mostly digital). TVGOS provides program listings for all but maybe a dozen of them.

If you're interested in how TVGOS works, I host a web site dedicated to the subject at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/

EDIT: Not all of your available channels will be turned on by default. When you first set up TVGOS, it searches all of your channels to see which ones have a video signal and tries to customize the lineup for you. It does a pretty poor job of this, though. You can change which channels are turned on or off in the "Setup" menu or by selecting a channel number, pressing "Menu," and choosing "Edit Channels."

:) Thanks sderby for the info:

you wrote: In most (but not all) areas, program listing transmissions begin at about 2:20am, 7:00am, 10:00am and 1:45pm. They last 3 hours each. The exception is in areas where the host station goes off the air at night. Different data (channel lineups, firmware upgrades, advertising, etc.) is transmitted at other times during the day, but with the normal schedule there is nothing transmitted between 7 and 8pm *shrug*. If you're really interested, go into the diagnostic screen and navigate to the "DLSched" screen of the "VBI" diagnostics. It'll show the times (in GMT) of all the scheduled downloads.

But this does not explain the EPG activity not stopping until 7 pm. I will try to look at the DLSched screen after the current download completes.

you wrote: Not sure what you mean by "recognize" the digital channels. TVGOS gets all of its data off of a single channel (your host channel). When it searches, it's looking for a host channel (not program listing data). Having said that, yes, TVGOS will most likely have listings for most of your channels (digital and all). It won't have listings for the local oddball cable channels, though (like public access channels). For example, my cable lineup has about 300 channels (mostly digital). TVGOS provides program listings for all but maybe a dozen of them.

By recognize I just meant be able to include them in the listings. Does your setup give the TVGOS device a RF or composite/s-video feed? As I stated in the first part of my first post: my pio531 TVGOS did not get past the scan channels thru s-video for a host part of the process after a full 24 hours so I switched the settings to RF.

By recognize I just meant be able to include them in the listings. Does your setup give the TVGOS device a RF or composite/s-video feed? As I stated in the first part of my first post: my pio531 TVGOS did not get past the scan channels thru s-video for a host part of the process after a full 24 hours so I switched the settings to RF.

I'm guessing the inputs that can be used to "feed" TVGOS are device-dependent, but in general if it can provide an analog signal, it should be OK. On my TV, for example, I know that TVGOS can utilize signals on either of two RF inputs, a composite input, an S-Video input and a component input. TVGOS (on my TV) will store data and control up to three of these at a time (the two RF inputs plus one other analog input).

Incidentally, in areas where the cable company is simulcasting analog and digital channels, the cable box will almost always map its channel numbers to the digital feeds. In those cases, the only way to get the analog channels is to connect directly to the wall. (Don't know if that's the case in your area or not, though). Some cable companies that are all-digital or ADS have mapped one channel to the analog TVGOS host, though.

thanks again.

My setup in the Pio 531 seems to require one and only one source be designated.
That is why I was curious about your setup. And as I have mentioned, the EPG process using the G-link and the cable box does not seem to work so maybe I am in a cable system that is all digital, I will attempt to find out.

I accessed the TVGOS diag screens and this is what I found:

My build is Jun 1, 2005

Host Channel is 1:04, - with "4" being the cable channel cooresponding to my local PBS station

On the VBiDLSched page I find the following data:

START Duration
07:21 180
12:01 180
15:06 180
18:46 180
05:41 30
18:11 30
04:01 30
06:16 60
10:56 60
22:46 60
04:36 60

So it looks like I have lots of download times. I am in the Eastern time zone (-5:00 GMT)
So the end of a session at 7:00 pm would be 0:00 GMT
That about corresponds to the 60 minute session starting at 22:46 GMT
Does this make sense?

What is this Fox station's Call Sign?


What is this PBS station's Call Sign?
PBS is KOPB

Fox is KPTV

Rick

PBS is KOPB

Fox is KPTV

Rick
I should have asked if you notice any diff. after switching the cables? Any difference so far (to indicate a cable problem)???

Both your Hosts seem to be about equal, both 316 kW, Fox slightly higher elev., but PBS (Oregon Public Broadcasting) is a network of "75 transmission sites" for TV and radio around the state. I couldn't find a "station list" in the OPB website (like Alabama's), but you should have several other PBS stations you might be able to "switch" to for your Channel 10 slot. You can see if there are any other PBS stations in the OFF section of your "Change channel display" menu and do the OFF/ON switch of stations, which worked for me at one time...assuming things are still not A-OK after the cable switch.

Your test here might narrow things down a bit...maybe the deal Gemstar made with PBS Datacast to distribute their data is either in its early "workout the bugs" stage and needs tweaking, or maybe PBS stations are not the best choice for transmitting the data???

Edit: You might also have a weak PTV station, KSYS Ch. 8, Medford in your channel list? (It's not affiliated with OPB.) If so, and your TVGOS is not working properly, I'd turn that station OFF for awhile, but then that's just to test my "hair-brained" theory of some sort of "Gemstar Genie battle" that might be going on in the DVR (not the TV).

wabjxo - The P-B.S. ManForgive me, but curiosity has gotten the better of me. I know the last two, but what does the "P" stand for??? ;)

I should have asked if you notice any diff. after switching the cables? Any difference so far (to indicate a cable problem)???

Both your Hosts seem to be about equal, both 316 kW, Fox slightly higher elev., but PBS (Oregon Public Broadcasting) is a network of "75 transmission sites" for TV and radio around the state. I couldn't find a "station list" in the OPB website (like Alabama's), but you should have several other PBS stations you might be able to "switch" to for your Channel 10 slot. You can see if there are any other PBS stations in the OFF section of your "Change channel display" menu and do the OFF/ON switch of stations, which worked for me at one time...assuming things are still not A-OK after the cable switch.

Your test here might narrow things down a bit...maybe the deal Gemstar made with PBS Datacast to distribute their data is either in its early "workout the bugs" stage and needs tweaking, or maybe PBS stations are not the best choice for transmitting the data???

Edit: You might also have a weak PTV station, KSYS Ch. 8, Medford in your channel list? (It's not affiliated with OPB.) If so, and your TVGOS is not working properly, I'd turn that station OFF for awhile, but then that's just to test my "hair-brained" theory of some sort of "Gemstar Genie battle" that might be going on in the DVR (not the TV).

I only receive the one PBS station here in Portland. (Channel 10).

Rick

I have a question that I think has already been answered but I'm too lazy to search through the previous postings. I notice that occasionally when I turn on the unit "Please Wait" is displayed on the LCD and on the TV Screen for about 30 seconds, then it takes about another 30 seconds for the guide to automatically pop up. Now I notice that there are no additional listings populated so what is it doing?

To follow up on Sean's answer, it was suggested that when EPG was not in the display an you turned on the DVR it actually was transferring all the TVGOS data downloaded previously into the listing section. It was always taken as a good sign that the EPG symbol went off. I recall people in this forum rushing to turn the unit on in this "no-EPG" state to get a look at the information downloaded.

Now that my unit has settled down for several weeks, I get nearly continuous griding and EPG in the display - not that I mind, to me it means that it is working. I do notice that the EPG disappears several times a day for a short period at the same time of day.

Forgive me, but curiosity has gotten the better of me. I know the last two, but what does the "P" stand for??? ;)
Pure.

I only receive the one PBS station here in Portland. (Channel 10).

Rick
Any diff. since you switched cables????

So the end of a session at 7:00 pm would be 0:00 GMT
That about corresponds to the 60 minute session starting at 22:46 GMT
Does this make sense?

I believe that download session is for downloading firmware upgrades and advertising graphics. It's currently unused, as far as I know. The 180 minute sessions contain the program listings. I'm at a loss to explain the hard drive thrashing you've described at the time of night.

Pure.Ah... got it!

I only receive the one PBS station here in Portland. (Channel 10).
OK, so you only "receive" one PBS CHANNEL (10) in your cable pkg, but did you look way down your "Change channel display" list to see what other STATIONS are OFF.

Those other STATIONS will be at the end of your channel list and they will all have grey bars rather than colored, but they WILL have STATION IDs and affiliations (ABC, CBS, PBS, etc.).

Those will be STATIONS (not CHANNELS) that are not in the cable pkg you subscribed to, PLUS any other STATIONS that other local cable companies provide to other users (which Gemstar will have in their "data" for your locale).

I'm trying to see if ANYONE else in a PBS NOC-controlled multi-station state shows PBS STATIONS that are NOT the one that the subscriber's cable co. delivers in one of its CHANNEL slots.

So far, no luck in ANYONE, on Cable TV, reporting that they went down their channel list and found ANY STATIONS in the OFF section of their "Change channel display" list.

I quess this is only of interest to me. Too bad, so sad?

I believe that download session is for downloading firmware upgrades and advertising graphics. It's currently unused, as far as I know. The 180 minute sessions contain the program listings. I'm at a loss to explain the hard drive thrashing you've described at the time of night.

I had read somewhere that the other two periods were for dowloading updates, and one other activity, perhaps channel configuration?

In any event, I assumed they were used.

My system also has the EPG displayed for the bulk of them time, occasionally it is off, but usually not for long.

Rick

Reporting on my most recent "experience" with switching PBS stations for my single PBS channel slot (Ch. 10 here):

Since mid-Jan, TVGOS problems--losing days, etc. the usual routine, using my normal cable system lineup, which delivers PBS WAIQ, on Ch. 10 (my Host).

Reset TVGOS last on Friday and, by Saturday, had 7 days, BUT just today discovered that, somehow, my cable system lineup was not mine...ABC soaps were ID'd as some ESPN sports show...and my PBS station was WBIQ. (The two other cable systems in my area deliver PBS WBIQ. So, I was somehow on wrong cable system layout....operator error, I'm sure.

Changed back to my subscribed cable system (with WAIQ) so my program data would be correct again.

Today, ~8:30 am, still on WAIQ, TVGOS down from 7 to 2 days.

Switched my PBS station from WAIQ to WBIQ (the "OFF/ON switch", NO TVGOS reset involved).

At ~2:00 pm this SAME DAY, back up to 5 days and chugging along towards 8, I hope, where I had been for many months...until I started "experimenting."

Interesting! I didn't realize that this was device-specific. That clears up my confusion :)

EDIT: How old is the Panasonic E-500? I seem to remember that there are two versions of the TVGOS software. One version is found in devices manufactured more than about a year ago and another in newer devices. Also, what revision number is shown in your diagnostics screen?

I can't find a "revision number" in the diagnostics screen of my E-65. What should I be looking for? I have an TVGOS ID number, 6H377-5711472-XV701, what does that stand for?

I should have asked if you notice any diff. after switching the cables? Any difference so far (to indicate a cable problem)???

Both your Hosts seem to be about equal, both 316 kW, Fox slightly higher elev., but PBS (Oregon Public Broadcasting) is a network of "75 transmission sites" for TV and radio around the state. I couldn't find a "station list" in the OPB website (like Alabama's), but you should have several other PBS stations you might be able to "switch" to for your Channel 10 slot. You can see if there are any other PBS stations in the OFF section of your "Change channel display" menu and do the OFF/ON switch of stations, which worked for me at one time...assuming things are still not A-OK after the cable switch.

Your test here might narrow things down a bit...maybe the deal Gemstar made with PBS Datacast to distribute their data is either in its early "workout the bugs" stage and needs tweaking, or maybe PBS stations are not the best choice for transmitting the data???

Edit: You might also have a weak PTV station, KSYS Ch. 8, Medford in your

channel list? (It's not affiliated with OPB.) If so, and your TVGOS is not working properly, I'd turn that station OFF for awhile, but then that's just to test my "hair-brained" theory of some sort of "Gemstar Genie battle" that might be going on in the DVR (not the TV).


No, can't get KSYS in my area.

It's too early to tell if there's a difference or not. Last "run" of good EPG performance was from Jan 1- to Feb 1st. This was using the original connections. I swtched connections on Feb 1, so will have to wait for another couple of weeks at least to see if any better. (unless it goes out before then, which would prove the negative).

thanks,
Rick

OK, so you only "receive" one PBS CHANNEL (10) in your cable pkg, but did you look way down your "Change channel display" list to see what other STATIONS are OFF.

Those other STATIONS will be at the end of your channel list and they will all have grey bars rather than colored, but they WILL have STATION IDs and affiliations (ABC, CBS, PBS, etc.).

Those will be STATIONS (not CHANNELS) that are not in the cable pkg you subscribed to, PLUS any other STATIONS that other local cable companies provide to other users (which Gemstar will have in their "data" for your locale).

I'm trying to see if ANYONE else in a PBS NOC-controlled multi-station state shows PBS STATIONS that are NOT the one that the subscriber's cable co. delivers in one of its CHANNEL slots.

So far, no luck in ANYONE, on Cable TV, reporting that they went down their channel list and found ANY STATIONS in the OFF section of their "Change channel display" list.

I quess this is only of interest to me. Too bad, so sad?

WAB,

I don't subscribe to any cable. My system is running OTA on RF1. All of my EPG is for the OTA stuff. And yes there are other channels listed some are automatically turned off when it is first initialized, others are turned on, even though I don't really recieve them. I have to go in and manually turn them off.

Rick

WAB,

I don't subscribe to any cable. My system is running OTA on RF1. All of my EPG is for the OTA stuff. And yes there are other channels listed some are automatically turned off when it is first initialized, others are turned on, even though I don't really recieve them. I have to go in and manually turn them off.

Rick
Thanks for the info. It really helps since now...with your OTA setup and channels ON that you don't actually receive...I am "sure" that what Gemstar delivers for our EPG "data" is just that: it's just prefabricated DATA. It may or may not resemble "actual signal reality."

It's only important to me because I have never been absolutely sure that the PBS STATION I was seeing on my Ch. 10 was the actual STATION or the one that Gemstar thinks I should be receiving...lends some credence to my PBS Host-Station-Switching thing that works so well for me (in my NOC-controlled, multi-STATION, simulcast State). Unfortunately, no one else has, so far, duplicated my experience, so I'm truly honored to be so unique! :D

I have a brand new DVR-633 that has not been able to load any TVGOS data for 4 full days. This unit has never loaded any data, so I suspect that either the TVGOS signal is absent or the signal does not contain my zip code. Is there any way I can quickly verify if the TVGOS signal is present, even if the zip code does not match? These overnight tests are driving me crazy! Does the clock get set correctly if it finds a signal, or some indication on the diagnostics screen that I can check without having to wait overnight?

My setup:
Direct analog cable connection to the RF input. (No cable box).
Zip = 30084, Tucker Georgia.
Cable provider = Comcast, Dekalb County.

Thanks,
- Mike

I have a brand new DVR-633 that has not been able to load any TVGOS data for 4 full days. This unit has never loaded any data, so I suspect that either the TVGOS signal is absent or the signal does not contain my zip code. Is there any way I can quickly verify if the TVGOS signal is present, even if the zip code does not match? These overnight tests are driving me crazy! Does the clock get set correctly if it finds a signal, or some indication on the diagnostics screen that I can check without having to wait overnight?

Go into the diagnostics screens, go to the Slicing diagnostics, and check the "CurrChan" column for Starts, TypeC and TypeB. That'll show if data's being sent through.

You won't get a time set until TVGOS finds a host for your particular ZIP code.

Are you on a digital-only or ADS system by any chance?

For more information and troubleshooting, read the information at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/

I have a brand new DVR-633 that has not been able to load any TVGOS data for 4 full days.
Your TVGOS data should be (no guarantee!) coming from the Atlanta PBS Station WGTV. Their OTA Channel is 8...check cable lineup for actual channel. That SHOULD be your Host Channel.

The "ultimate" test, if you have just a little patience left, is to feed the DVR with an OTA antenna overnight (maybe rabbit-ears?). Since you're so close to the "potential" Atlanta PBS tower, your TVGOS should get SOME data. If not, that may point to your setup or the cable co. as the culprit???

I have a brand new DVR-633 that has not been able to load any TVGOS data for 4 full days. This unit has never loaded any data, so I suspect that either the TVGOS signal is absent or the signal does not contain my zip code. Is there any way I can quickly verify if the TVGOS signal is present, even if the zip code does not match? These overnight tests are driving me crazy! Does the clock get set correctly if it finds a signal, or some indication on the diagnostics screen that I can check without having to wait overnight?

My setup:
Direct analog cable connection to the RF input. (No cable box).
Zip = 30084, Tucker Georgia.
Cable provider = Comcast, Dekalb County.

Thanks,
- Mike

Hi Mike. I've got the same setup and was without TVGOS data for almost a month. Here were the symptoms:

1) the display says EPG all the time
2) there is no grinding sound while EPG is showing (the acid test of no TVGOS data as far as I'm concerned)
3) after the unit is in standby over night (off with EPG in the display) and you turn it on to check for the first time in the morning, something strange happens the first time you turn it off. It doesn't shut off right away. It stars to grind for about 20-30s. Then it shuts off. Then usually at this point the time changes from local to GMT.
4) This occurs whether you set your clock manually or automatically. After a day or so you wont be able to set the clock back because it will be grayed out in the menu (both automatic and manual
5) if it is not too long you can do a rescan of your channels which actually allows you to set the clock afterward without losing any (manually) programed recordings.
6) Otherwise you need to do a hard rest of the unit to be able to set the clock back to local time.

Also, there is no need for TVGOS data streams to have you clock set through the automatic option. I had no TVGOS data for weeks (verified from the cable company and the old host channel who terminated their contract with GEMSTAR) and was able to get a time signal from a US PBS channel - Yah wabjxo!

treedmack,

Those symptoms match mine exactly, including the clock jumping to GMT.

After looking at some of the diagnostic information, I suspect that there is no TVGOS information on the host channel. I called Comcast, and they said to call WPBS, channel 8. Haven't done that yet.

I tried a different zip code last night and that did not make a difference. Tonight I will see if I can receive the signal using rabbit ears instead of the cable.

I am curious - did you eventually get the TVGOS to work, and if so, what was the solution?

Thanks,
- Mike

treedmack,

Those symptoms match mine exactly, including the clock jumping to GMT.



Dude! You've got no TVGOS data in your area.

If you want my whole story start on Page 5 of this thread. You may want to start at around pg 8 and work your way forwards and backwards in the thread. Jicon and I worked on our local cable company and Pioneer.

During the period of time that you are without TVGOS data you may want to turn off the EPG. Here is my post about this (so you don't have to search for it - there is also the Eureka thread on this topic but this worked for me and I have the same set up as you). Just one additional note: the following may only work if you have a manually scheduled recording set on your DVR. (In retrospect, the Pioneer guy probably hadn't heard of this because it requires a scheduled recording present on the DVR or it eventually stops suppressing EPG.) I always have several weekly recordings set. If you don't have any, just set a 1/2 hour show to record weekly with the following set of instructions. I had it turned off for more than a week with this method before we got a new TVGOS host channel in our area.

Good luck

How to make your DVR functional during this problem
Since areas (Victoria, kamloops, others?) are not being service by EPG data currently, and this situation messes with the clock (mine keeps going to GMT whether I set it as manual or automatic during set up). You need to turn off EPG to have a stable clock for timer recording. There has been a lot about how to do this. I will outline a method below for the 533H. I spoke to Pioneer this morning and my method (which is probably posted somewhere here or another forum) seemed to be new to the the guy I spoke to there and seemingly superior. Note, I have a very normal configuration (cable into the the DVR with no cable boxes or anything).

1) perform a hard reset (stop and power button while unit is on)
2) perform normal setup with manual clock setting
3) set up TVGOS normally (selecting Canada) but use A0A0A0 as the postal code
4) when you want to access the recorder schedule you must do it now through the HOME MENU or by pushing the TIMER REC button on the remote. If you push the TV GUIDE button it will put you back to the TVGOS welcome screen to get you to go through the setup again. if you hit this by accident then just push the TV GUIDE button again to get out.

In this mode EPG disappears from the DVR display. And all functions normally. the one side effect I have seen is that the unit always takes about 10-15s to turn on and 10-15 seconds to turn off.

For timer recording this seems to work fine (i.e. through the HOME MENU button or TIMER REC button). I set the DVR to timer record Desperate Housewives last night and it worked fine.

I also have had perpetual problems with my 533 ever since I got it for Christmas. Here is the pattern:
1. The message "rebuilding the guide based on your new settings" appears. The recording schedule stays in tact and I'm still able to find programs using the search function.
2. After about a day the scheduled recordings turn Grey indicating that they are no longer valid and I'm now unable to find programs even with the search function.
3. I use the special remote control code to reset the TVGOS.
4. Go into the TVGOS settings and go through the setup again reinputting my zip code. Leave the unit off overnight.
5. The next day when I turn it on it display's two cable systems in my area and asks me to select one.
6. As soon as I select a cable linup, the channels immediately display but they all say "No Listings" next to each channel.
7. Leave the system off overnight and the next day The 1st and 8th day are loaded. The additional days are loaded over the next 5 days.
8. About a day or two after all 8 days are loaded I recieve the "rebuilding based on your new settings" message again.

This last time, rather than using my home zip code I used a Hartford, CT zip code. I read that the Host channel is determined based on the Zip Code you input. They suggest using a Zip Code from a major city in your area. I'll see if this helps but I'm not very hopefull.

I'd like to know if anyone has a Pioneer 533 that is working fine. If so then please describe your setup.

Thanks

UPDATE!
Based on this last setup attempt, the entire guide was loaded by last Thursday 2/3. Ever since I've been checking it every morning before I leave for work then again in the evening when I get home. I checked it on Tuesday morning before I left for work and it was working fine. When I got home Tuesday night, the guide had disappeared and the message: "TV Guide Information is Currently Unavailable. The Guide is being Rebuilt Based on your Setup Changes. Your Updated Listings Will be Available within 24 Hours" was being displayed. All of my scheduled recordings were still active and it has been recording all of my programs with no problems. Now I'm curious as to why this would occur in the middle of the day. From what I've read the TVGOS information is only fed to it once a day at 2:30AM so I would think that if an issue were to occur it would be overnight. I tried going through the setup again and even changed the zip code. As of this morning its still out but my scheduled recordings are still in tact. I'm wondering if anyone has actually had the listings return without doing a reset. If so then how long does it usually take?

The TVGOS EPG is downloaded 4 times a day. If I remember correctly, 3 are during the day, and only 1 is during the night/early morning.

If I were you, I would stop resetting the TVGOS when you get that "updated listings will be available within 24 hours message". Let it set for a few days and see what happens. Constantly resetting the TVGOS may be putting you at square 1 over and over again. Just my opinion...

Here's a link to "National Datacast," a PBS spinoff for-profit co. that must be the one my PBS engr was referring to when he told me Gemstar made a deal with PBS Datacast to distribute their TVGOS data. I haven't read eveything there, but it starts by saying it's "all digital" so I'm sure it will be an "interesting" read by some in this forum? Maybe it's NOT a Pioneer or Gemstar problem...maybe it's a National Datacast problem??? Verrrry interesting...it's beginning to look as if there are "too many hands turning the wheel" in the TVGOS delivery system?

http://www.nationaldatacast.com/apps_ProgramGuides.html

Update from Atlanta:

Last night I changed my 633 configuration to "antenna" and connected rabbit ears. This morning, the TV Guide listings were there! WooHoo!

From this I know that channel 8 (WGTV) in Atlanta is broadcasting the TVGOS information, and the Pioneer 633 is able to receive it properly. Now I must figure out why the same channel delivered over Comcast analog cable does not work. I figure that either the TVGOS signal is not present on Comcast, or the channel lineup for my zip code does not exist.

When using the "antenna" choice for the TVGOS setup, is the zip code entry irrelevant because the broadcast channel lineup does not change across zip codes?

Thanks,
- Mike

When using the "antenna" choice for the TVGOS setup, is the zip code entry irrelevant because the broadcast channel lineup does not change across zip codes?

No, it uses the ZIP code to define your channel lineup whether you get the signal OTA or via cable. It gets the same lineup, it just turns on different channels by default. (Go into the channel editor and you'll still see all of the cable channels even if you got the TVGOS data OTA). This also guarantees that you can still pull guide data even if the cable company is doing ADS or is digital-only. (You can pull the data OTA, then use those guide listings for the cable input.)

Comcast's policy is not to alter the broadcast stream before sending it, so it's highly unlikely that they're stripping the TVGOS data as some cable companies have done. Are you certain your system isn't ADS and that the analog channel is tunable over cable? That would explain why you can't get guide data over cable.

Maybe it's NOT a Pioneer or Gemstar problem...maybe it's a National Datacast problem??? Verrrry interesting...it's beginning to look as if there are "too many hands turning the wheel" in the TVGOS delivery system?

TVGOS data is currently not distributed via digital channels. They are in the process of setting up to send the data in a digital stream (I don't know when those broadcasts will begin), but none of that equipment is broadcasting any data yet. National Datacast may or may not be the carrier that sends these signals, but if they are, that's *VERY* good news. Using an ATSC data stream sent as a subchannel of PBS-digital will provide a *MUCH* more robust distribution system than the hit-or-miss one they have now.

Here's a link to "National Datacast," a PBS spinoff for-profit co. that must be the one my PBS engr was referring to when he told me Gemstar made a deal with PBS Datacast to distribute their TVGOS data. I haven't read eveything there, but it starts by saying it's "all digital" so I'm sure it will be an "interesting" read by some in this forum? Maybe it's NOT a Pioneer or Gemstar problem...maybe it's a National Datacast problem??? Verrrry interesting...it's beginning to look as if there are "too many hands turning the wheel" in the TVGOS delivery system?

http://www.nationaldatacast.com/apps_ProgramGuides.html

Very interesting indeed! The delivery system is all digital and requires a special receiver to obtain the data. This is what TVGOS may turn to when the airways all go digital.

No, it uses the ZIP code to define your channel lineup whether you get the signal OTA or via cable. It gets the same lineup, it just turns on different channels by default. (Go into the channel editor and you'll still see all of the cable channels even if you got the TVGOS data OTA). This also guarantees that you can still pull guide data even if the cable company is doing ADS or is digital-only. (You can pull the data OTA, then use those guide listings for the cable input.)

If that is true, then how does the TVGOS know which cable channel lineup to display. Here in Philly, my zipcode is served by 2 cable companies. Are you saying that if I received my TVGOS EPG OTA (by selecting "antenna"), then I would get the same channel lineup as seen on my Comcast cable? How would it know whether to display the Comcast lineup or the RCN lineup? Also the channel numbers for the OTA stations are very different from those on the cable system.

Or are you saying that the OTA stations would be listed on channels that they broadcast, but all the other channels that the cable companies carry would be listed but turned off? Again, if that is true, how does it know whether to use the Comcast lineup or the RCN lineup?

I think I'll try that, by hooking up my Panasonic E-65 to rabbit ears and see what TVGOS stations I get, what channels they are listed on, and what channels are listed but turned off in the channel editor.

If that is true, then how does the TVGOS know which cable channel lineup to display.
It asks you. You have to have TVGOS set up to use both OTA and cable, though. It'll ask which lineup to use for the cable input. (If it doesn't, you can specify it under the Setup tab.)

Or are you saying that the OTA stations would be listed on channels that they broadcast, but all the other channels that the cable companies carry would be listed but turned off?

Believe it or not, if you have it set up to use OTA and cable, it shows *both* the OTA channel and the cable channel on separate (but adjacent) lines. One line, for example, will show a channel of "4 Air" and the next line will show a channel of "99 Cable" (You just turn off the one you don't want in the channel editor)

When you edit a channel in the channel editor, one of the options is "Input" or "Tune" (or something like that). You can choose Cable or Air (for OTA). TVGOS will then switch to the specified input, if necessary, when you ask it to go to that channel. It's set up this way for people that have cable for regular channels, but use an additional OTA antenna for HD channels. (This only applies if you have TVGOS set up to use both an OTA input and a cable input. Otherwise the input selector is greyed out.)

It asks you. You have to have TVGOS set up to use both OTA and cable, though. It'll ask which lineup to use for the cable input. (If it doesn't, you can specify it under the Setup tab.)



Believe it or not, if you have it set up to use OTA and cable, it shows *both* the OTA channel and the cable channel on separate (but adjacent) lines. One line, for example, will show a channel of "4 Air" and the next line will show a channel of "99 Cable" (You just turn off the one you don't want in the channel editor)

When you edit a channel in the channel editor, one of the options is "Input" or "Tune" (or something like that). You can choose Cable or Air (for OTA). TVGOS will then switch to the specified input, if necessary, when you ask it to go to that channel. It's set up this way for people that have cable for regular channels, but use an additional OTA antenna for HD channels. (This only applies if you have TVGOS set up to use both an OTA input and a cable input. Otherwise the input selector is greyed out.)

I'll still try getting the TVGOS EPG OTA, but my Panasonic only allows selection of either antenna or cable. If cable is selected it asks if a cable box is used.

Since I can only choose antenna or cable, it will be interesting to see what channels turn up in the channel editor. I'll report back.

I have a Pioneer 531 that suffers from the periodic loss of EPG data. I have had a reliable EPG for about 2 weeks now, which is the longest I have ever gone without getting the "rebuilding based on set up change" note.

Here is what I did after the last loss of EPG data:

1. I reset the TVGOS system using the numeric code available in this thread.

2. I immediately did a complete reset of the recorder, using the instructions contained in the Pioneer manual.

3. After the reset, I let the recorder scan for channels.

4. I immediately went into the channel editor and turned off one of the two PBS stations that are provided by my cable system. I get PBS on channels 12 and 13 on my cable system. Channel 13 was where the EPG diagnostic screens told me the guide info was coming from. I turned off channel 12 in the TV tuner.

5. I did the setup for the TVGOS and turned off the unit overnight. The next morning, I selected my cable provider from the list provided and the channel lineup appeared. I immediately edited the channel lineup in the EPG and turned off all channels that I would not record from. This included all news channels, weather, shopping, religion, foreign language, etc.

6. I plugged in the ir blaster that came with the recorder. I don't use it with my setup, and had never plugged it in. The EPG had problems since I got the recorder and never used the blaster. Maybe it had some impact (remote chance,I know).

The next day the programs started to populate the guide, as they always have. The difference, this time, is that once all 8 days were downloaded, the EPG continued to add new days without generating the rebuilding message.

I have no idea which of these changes affected the EPG, or if Gemstar issued something on their end that fixed things.

My guess is that the changes I made did one of two things:

1. Turning off the 2nd PBS station in the recorder's tuner eliminated the recorder somehow getting confused and looking for updates on different channels, or

2. Eliminating the unneeded channels in the EPG channel lineup reduced the amount of information the EPG system had to store and update on a daily basis. As I only experienced the problem once the entire 8 days was loaded into the guide, I'm guessing that some buffer got overrun with too much data. Reducing the number of channels seems to have put the data needed for continuous update within the limits of the recorder (buffer, memory, firmware?).

I did notice that functions like the search function only look for programs on channels that are turned on in the EPG, which seems to support the notion that the recorder is being asked to handle less data each time it is updated.

Every time I have reset the recorder, the EPG starts to populate the very next day, which leads me to conclude that the data is being transmitted reliably from my cable company.

I hope this is a long term solution to my EPG issues. This is the only real criticism I have had of the 531.

Hope this helps someone else with EPG related reliability problems.

I have a Pioneer 531 that suffers from the periodic loss of EPG data. I have had a reliable EPG for about 2 weeks now, which is the longest I have ever gone without getting the "rebuilding based on set up change" note.

Here is what I did after the last loss of EPG data:

1. I reset the TVGOS system using the numeric code available in this thread.

2. I immediately did a complete reset of the recorder, using the instructions contained in the Pioneer manual.

3. After the reset, I let the recorder scan for channels.

4. I immediately went into the channel editor and turned off one of the two PBS stations that are provided by my cable system. I get PBS on channels 12 and 13 on my cable system. Channel 13 was where the EPG diagnostic screens told me the guide info was coming from. I turned off channel 12 in the TV tuner.

5. I did the setup for the TVGOS and turned off the unit overnight. The next morning, I selected my cable provider from the list provided and the channel lineup appeared. I immediately edited the channel lineup in the EPG and turned off all channels that I would not record from. This included all news channels, weather, shopping, religion, foreign language, etc.

6. I plugged in the ir blaster that came with the recorder. I don't use it with my setup, and had never plugged it in. The EPG had problems since I got the recorder and never used the blaster. Maybe it had some impact (remote chance,I know).

The next day the programs started to populate the guide, as they always have. The difference, this time, is that once all 8 days were downloaded, the EPG continued to add new days without generating the rebuilding message.

I have no idea which of these changes affected the EPG, or if Gemstar issued something on their end that fixed things.

My guess is that the changes I made did one of two things:

1. Turning off the 2nd PBS station in the recorder's tuner eliminated the recorder somehow getting confused and looking for updates on different channels, or

2. Eliminating the unneeded channels in the EPG channel lineup reduced the amount of information the EPG system had to store and update on a daily basis. As I only experienced the problem once the entire 8 days was loaded into the guide, I'm guessing that some buffer got overrun with too much data. Reducing the number of channels seems to have put the data needed for continuous update within the limits of the recorder (buffer, memory, firmware?).

I did notice that functions like the search function only look for programs on channels that are turned on in the EPG, which seems to support the notion that the recorder is being asked to handle less data each time it is updated.

Every time I have reset the recorder, the EPG starts to populate the very next day, which leads me to conclude that the data is being transmitted reliably from my cable company.

I hope this is a long term solution to my EPG issues. This is the only real criticism I have had of the 531.

Hope this helps someone else with EPG related reliability problems.

Aydu,
That is very good information. I am currently in a holding pattern. I've been receiving the "Rebuilding Message" for 3 days now. My recording schedule is still working properly and I'm able to search for programs but I'd rather have the listings displayed. If the listings don't return by tomorrow I'm going to implement your system. I suspect that the one thing you did that made a big difference is to turn off all the channels you don't record on. I'm going to do the same thing. I'll probably start by turning off all the channels except for the 4 or 5 I regularly record on. Then I'll systematically turn on stations as needed. I'll bet that if the unit only had to update 4 or 5 channels then it would be more stable. I also agree with you that the issue is probably a hardware/software issue...not Gemstar.

Aydu,
That is very good information. I am currently in a holding pattern. I've been receiving the "Rebuilding Message" for 3 days now. My recording schedule is still working properly and I'm able to search for programs but I'd rather have the listings displayed. If the listings don't return by tomorrow I'm going to implement your system. I suspect that the one thing you did that made a big difference is to turn off all the channels you don't record on. I'm going to do the same thing. I'll probably start by turning off all the channels except for the 4 or 5 I regularly record on. Then I'll systematically turn on stations as needed. I'll bet that if the unit only had to update 4 or 5 channels then it would be more stable. I also agree with you that the issue is probably a hardware/software issue...not Gemstar.
Awhile back we had that "discussion" about turning OFF one of your PBS-type channels (7 or 12) and how that couldn't work, etc.

Now, you apparently have the same situation as Aydu...two PBS STATIONS (and channels) with only one showing up as the Host (Ch. 7, I think you said before), so...

It appears you could be the 3rd person to proof-test the simple step of turning OFF an overlapping or duplicating PBS STATION to make TVGOS work better.

If it also works for you, you and others won't have to go to Aydu's theory #2 and turn OFF a lot of other channels they might like to keep?

And, if it doesn't work, then people could always go on to #2?

I've had my 533 since last November and I've never had a single problem with EPG... until now. Two days ago I turned on the unit and had no listings. Interestingly enough my new Toshiba TV with EPG has not had a problem and continues to give me full listings. I'm only using OTA and have a very limited number of channels so I doubt that they're getting EPG data from different sources. This makes me believe that whatever the problem is, is probably related to how Pioneer implemented EPG on their units.

Fred

Update from Atlanta:

Since my TVGOS host channel is channel 8, and my cable channel lineup carries channel 8 on channel 8, I can set my Pioneer 633 for cable operation but connect rabbit ears to the RF input and the TV Guide listings are received. Using this setup, I verified that the OTA TVGOS listings include my Comcast cable channel lineup for my ZIP code. This is ironic given that I cannot receive the TVGOS information from channel 8 as carried by Comcast!

At least I can put an A/B switch on the RF input and switch to the rabbit ears each night to receive the guide and then back to the cable in the morning to make recordings. Now I must decide if the TVGOS is worth this much hassle or if I should join the Eureka thread camp.

- Mike

Update from Atlanta:

Since my TVGOS host channel is channel 8, and my cable channel lineup carries channel 8 on channel 8, I can set my Pioneer 633 for cable operation but connect rabbit ears to the RF input and the TV Guide listings are received. Using this setup, I verified that the OTA TVGOS listings include my Comcast cable channel lineup for my ZIP code. This is ironic given that I cannot receive the TVGOS information from channel 8 as carried by Comcast!

At least I can put an A/B switch on the RF input and switch to the rabbit ears each night to receive the guide and then back to the cable in the morning to make recordings. Now I must decide if the TVGOS is worth this much hassle or if I should join the Eureka thread camp.

- Mike
You've got the perfect setup/situation now to do a simple test of a "hair-brained" idea, but one that has a "chance" of working in your system:

Use a 2-way splitter, backwards, to "combine" the rabbit-ears and cable antennas and see if the rabbit-ears adds the TVGOS data to the combined signal stream...if, in fact, a "backwards splitter" actually works in the first place. Some better splitters have "feedback" filters, so I guess it would have to be a cheap one, w/o that feature? There's probably a signal "combiner" out there that might work perfectly for this???

Hey, that would test two theories in the real world and, if it works, would avoid having to manually switch just to get TVGOS????????

Update from Atlanta:

Since my TVGOS host channel is channel 8, and my cable channel lineup carries channel 8 on channel 8, I can set my Pioneer 633 for cable operation but connect rabbit ears to the RF input and the TV Guide listings are received. Using this setup, I verified that the OTA TVGOS listings include my Comcast cable channel lineup for my ZIP code. This is ironic given that I cannot receive the TVGOS information from channel 8 as carried by Comcast!

At least I can put an A/B switch on the RF input and switch to the rabbit ears each night to receive the guide and then back to the cable in the morning to make recordings. Now I must decide if the TVGOS is worth this much hassle or if I should join the Eureka thread camp.

- Mike

Very good detective work! You have isolated the problem. The problem lies with Comcast, not the recorder. Comcast must be doing something to the EPG signal, perhaps inadvertently, to prevent you from receiving it. Now you must, as you say, decide whether the TVGOS is worth the hassle of switching between RF inputs.

Good to hear a straightforward analysis and answer to the problem. I would guess that a lot of the TVGOS problems that people are reporting is caused by a similar simple straightforward reason, and not some convoluted process.

It is interesting that some Comcast customers (you, for example) are not getting the EPG data through the RF cable, while others (myself included) have no problem at all with the TVGOS EPG through the RF cable.

You've got the perfect setup/situation now to do a simple test of a "hair-brained" idea, but one that has a "chance" of working in your system:

Use a 2-way splitter, backwards, to "combine" the rabbit-ears and cable antennas and see if the rabbit-ears adds the TVGOS data to the combined signal stream...if, in fact, a "backwards splitter" actually works in the first place. Some better splitters have "feedback" filters, so I guess it would have to be a cheap one, w/o that feature? There's probably a signal "combiner" out there that might work perfectly for this???

Hey, that would test two theories in the real world and, if it works, would avoid having to manually switch just to get TVGOS????????

I think the combiner has a better chance of working, although there might be some interference introduced by combining RF signals with the same frequency.

Update from Atlanta:

Since my TVGOS host channel is channel 8, and my cable channel lineup carries channel 8 on channel 8, I can set my Pioneer 633 for cable operation but connect rabbit ears to the RF input and the TV Guide listings are received. Using this setup, I verified that the OTA TVGOS listings include my Comcast cable channel lineup for my ZIP code. This is ironic given that I cannot receive the TVGOS information from channel 8 as carried by Comcast!

Just a thought...you should also have WPBA OTA Channel 30, another PBS/PTV/EDU type station that might also be transmitting EPG. If Comcast also delivers WPBA, you could have the same situation as Aydu and might benefit from just turning OFF WPBA Cable Channel ??.

If that doesn't help your situation, you could then try turning Ch. 8 OFF and leaving WPBS ON (if that's in your cable lineup, of course, and EPG actually switches to WPBA). If that works, it would "prove" that Comcast was stripping EPG from its known Host, Ch. 8, but not from WPBA....not likely, I know!

I called Pioneer customer service this afternoon, and they said that the problem of Comcast not carrying the EPG data in the Atlanta area is a known problem, and that TV Guide and Comcast are working on a solution. No estimate on when or if the problem will be fixed, but the Pioneer service technician sounded hopeful - like this was a temporary problem.

- Mike

My EPG is working fine now (knock on wood). Perhaps the cause of the problems is many: TVGOS software glitches, contracts with cable companies, host channels, etc. I do give it a ton of time to download, although I don't think it really matters if it gets interrupted. I already had a cheap dvd player, so I do most of my viewing on that, freeing up the recorder for downloading.

But, a couple of times in the past two weeks, I've noticed that the panel display says "Timer Ready" and then nothing happens. The scheduled shows don't get recorded. If I turn the dvr off and then on and then go to standby, it starts recording the scheduled shows again.

Someone mentioned this in passing awhile back, but I never saw a response. Are other people having this issue or can someone direct to me the appropriate thread?

Thanks for any help or direction on this. I'm just worried that it will happen while I'm out of town and a whole week's worth of scheduled programs will not be recorded.

- burnspc

a couple of times in the past two weeks, I've noticed that the panel display says "Timer Ready" and then nothing happens. The scheduled shows don't get recorded. If I turn the dvr off and then on and then go to standby, it starts recording the scheduled shows again.
Could it be that you were watching something thru the DVR and it was on a different channel from the scheduled recording...where it would normally put up a dialog telling you it needed to change channels to record, etc..???

At least that's ONE "normal" situation where it might not start a timer rec program except after you turned it off then on (i.e., didn't respond to the dialog or accidentally pressed Enter while it was on the don't record option)???

No, it uses the ZIP code to define your channel lineup whether you get the signal OTA or via cable. It gets the same lineup, it just turns on different channels by default. (Go into the channel editor and you'll still see all of the cable channels even if you got the TVGOS data OTA). This also guarantees that you can still pull guide data even if the cable company is doing ADS or is digital-only. (You can pull the data OTA, then use those guide listings for the cable input.)

OK, an update on this issue for those who are interested.

sderby's statement above is true at least for Panasonic DVD recorders that use the TVGOS EPG. I have run a little test on the difference between downloading EPG data using an OTA connection versus a direct analog RF cable connection.

I receive my cable service in the Philly area from Comcast and although I subscribe to digital service, I have the analog RF connected directly to my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 DVD recorders. Although many here have stated that they receive their EPG data (host channel) from a non-commercial PBS station, I have two commercial TVGOS host channels, the ABC station (WPVI) and CBS station (KYW) in town. This was established by identifying the host channel on the diagnostics screen. The actual host channel used by the EPG alternates between the ABC and CBS stations. The channel list downloaded by the EPG lists all the analog channels as well as digital channels available on my Comcast cable service, and some channels (mainly New York City channels) that I do not receive. So in this case, sderby is correct, although I have the TVGOS EPG setup with no cable box, the digital channels are included in the download.

I decided to test whether the TVGOS EPG behaves the same if the signal was received OTA. So I disconnected my E-65 from the cable, connected a rabbit ears, and reset the TVGOS EPG to OTA (no cable). I did a reset, and so the clock showed a flashing 12:00 indicating that I had reset the TVGOS. Within 10 min, the clock was reset to the correct time.

After 48 hrs, I decided to check the TVGOS. What I discovered was very surprising. I expected the EPG to download only the OTA channels in the Philly area. What I found was that all the OTA channels in Philly and New York City were listed as well as some from other Pennsylvania cities such as Lancaster. This was surprising because without some sort of super antenna with an amplifier, the stations in NYC (90 miles away) cannot be received from my location. However, what sderby states is true, many cable channels were listed. I did not count them, but it appears that all the analog channels were there as well as some digital channels. According to the diagnostic screen, the host channel was KYW (OTA channel 3).

Therefore, at least on the Panasonic models, you can use TVGOS EPG downloaded OTA as a substitute for the EPG downloaded via cable. It will continue to download the EPG if the cable service temporarily goes down. However, in order to use the EPG to record analog cable channels, you must have it connected to the analog RF cable input.

What I found was that all the OTA channels in Philly and New York City were listed as well as some from other Pennsylvania cities such as Lancaster. This was surprising because without some sort of super antenna with an amplifier, the stations in NYC (90 miles away) cannot be received from my location.
Great test!

Question: what channels showed as turned ON? Were the NY 90-mile-away stations/channels ON even tho' you can't receive them OTA?

Great test!

Question: what channels showed as turned ON? Were the NY 90-mile-away stations/channels ON even tho' you can't receive them OTA?

Yes, strangely, all the NYC OTA channels and the other PA OTA channels were turned on. The cable channels, both analog and digital, were turned off, but appeared when I did a "change channels listed".

I'm guessing that since the Philly OTA channels can be received over a wide area, the TVGOS people decided to include the "fringe" OTA channels that some people who are on the periphery of the Philly broadcast area might be able to receive with a really good antenna. That would be Lancaster, PA towards the west, and the NYC OTA channels towards the north/northeast.

This suggests that perhaps in my area for OTA download of the TVGOS EPG, the zipcode does not really matter. One thing I still have to check is if the cable stations are listed on the correct channel for my Comcast service.

OK, an update on this issue for those who are interested.

sderby's statement above is true at least for Panasonic DVD recorders that use the TVGOS EPG. I have run a little test on the difference between downloading EPG data using an OTA connection versus a direct analog RF cable connection.

I receive my cable service in the Philly area from Comcast and although I subscribe to digital service, I have the analog RF connected directly to my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 DVD recorders. Although many here have stated that they receive their EPG data (host channel) from a non-commercial PBS station, I have two commercial TVGOS host channels, the ABC station (WPVI) and CBS station (KYW) in town. This was established by identifying the host channel on the diagnostics screen. The actual host channel used by the EPG alternates between the ABC and CBS stations. The channel list downloaded by the EPG lists all the analog channels as well as digital channels available on my Comcast cable service, and some channels (mainly New York City channels) that I do not receive. So in this case, sderby is correct, although I have the TVGOS EPG setup with no cable box, the digital channels are included in the download.

I decided to test whether the TVGOS EPG behaves the same if the signal was received OTA. So I disconnected my E-65 from the cable, connected a rabbit ears, and reset the TVGOS EPG to OTA (no cable). I did a reset, and so the clock showed a flashing 12:00 indicating that I had reset the TVGOS. Within 10 min, the clock was reset to the correct time.

After 48 hrs, I decided to check the TVGOS. What I discovered was very surprising. I expected the EPG to download only the OTA channels in the Philly area. What I found was that all the OTA channels in Philly and New York City were listed as well as some from other Pennsylvania cities such as Lancaster. This was surprising because without some sort of super antenna with an amplifier, the stations in NYC (90 miles away) cannot be received from my location. However, what sderby states is true, many cable channels were listed. I did not count them, but it appears that all the analog channels were there as well as some digital channels. According to the diagnostic screen, the host channel was KYW (OTA channel 3).

Therefore, at least on the Panasonic models, you can use TVGOS EPG downloaded OTA as a substitute for the EPG downloaded via cable. It will continue to download the EPG if the cable service temporarily goes down. However, in order to use the EPG to record analog cable channels, you must have it connected to the analog RF cable input.

I'm sorry, I didnt realize this was an issue. I recieve my TVGOS via OTA antenna, and the downloaded listing do show the basic cable channels, but they are automatically turned off when they are downloaded. I also recieve listing from staions about 60 miles away, although I cant get any reception that far.

One of the interesting tidbits I found.

For some reason, WB is shown on both 32 and 5, same station, not an affiliate, something to do with broadcast antennas or something. In any event, the guide for channel 32 downloads fine. However No guide data appears for channel 5. This is also true for the TVGOS for my Tosh TV. So TVGOS simply doesnt have any guide data for Channel 5. Unfortuneatly, my reception of Channel 32 is really bad. So I went into the menu options for setting up the TVGOS screen, (same place you change order of stations), and told it to tune channel 5, whenever I selected channel 32 on the guide. It worked fine. I dont' actually use it a lot, since for that channel my Satellite reception, and I usually record using L1. But occasionally Im watching sattelite and use the DVR tuner.

Rick

Yes, strangely, all the NYC OTA channels and the other PA OTA channels were turned on. The cable channels, both analog and digital, were turned off, but appeared when I did a "change channels listed".

I'm guessing that since the Philly OTA channels can be received over a wide area, the TVGOS people decided to include the "fringe" OTA channels that some people who are on the periphery of the Philly broadcast area might be able to receive with a really good antenna. That would be Lancaster, PA towards the west, and the NYC OTA channels towards the north/northeast.

This suggests that perhaps in my area for OTA download of the TVGOS EPG, the zipcode does not really matter. One thing I still have to check is if the cable stations are listed on the correct channel for my Comcast service.

One more update on my connection to TVGOS via OTA rabbit ears compared with connection via RF cable input.

As I mentioned previously, even with OTA connection the TVGOS listed analog cable channels. When I went back into the channel editor to turn on a couple of cable channels, I discovered that they are listed without channels numbers!! It would not let me turn on any of these channels without first entering a channel number. Very interesting. This means that the cable channels are included in some sort of default database listing that is downloaded regardless of how the TVGOS EPG data is accessed. Since I had specified OTA, it only automatically added the channel numbers for the OTA stations listed. Interestingly, it would only allow channel numbers from 2-69 to be entered. I'm not sure why that is. Don't OTA channel number go above 69? How high does UHF go?

I presume that when the recorder is connected via RF cable input, the same (if not more) cable channels would be downloaded, but since it is connected to the cable it can associate these channels with channel numbers. When it attempts to do this and encounters more than 1 channel number for a station/channel, it then knows there is more than 1 channel lineup in the area.

So, even though one might be tempted to use the OTA connection when cable service is down to maintain the TVGOS listings, I do not think it would work, as none of the cable channels would be associated with the correct channel numbers.

Next I will enter some channel numbers to see if the correct program info is downloaded.

Added in edit: I just answered my own question. In the early 1980s, the UHF channels 70-83 were reassigned to cell phone frequencies. Here's a link to the info: http://www.tvantenna.com/support/tutorials/uhf.html

To Burnspc,

sorry its been a while since I've been here. I have had that probem about 5 times in the six months i've had the machine, where the timer ready freezes and just wipes out the scheduled list as the day passes each time slot.

Think this is just another flaw in Pioneers software. I find that it occurs when its recording back to back time slots.

Not that this helps, but you can press stop record button, to release the freeze.

I( don't have any solutions, other than sayiny your not alone, and pray this doesn't happen often.

Fortunately, ive only not been home on two occasions when this occured.


On another note, i used to be able to wait out the rebuilding stage, for 1 or 2 days. recently things are worse and i am resetting all the time.

Still waiting for an actual solution, and thanks for all the posts.

One day, hopefully one day, someone will say....

Here's what to do to fix the flaws, and we can all celebrate.

But I think I will have bought the next generation of recorder by that time. Hopfully my cable company will come out with a machine that records more than 50 hours, with a dvd player in it, so I can utilize the digital cable guide that downloads in seconds, not hours.

All the best, LDK

I have a Pioneer 531 that suffers from the periodic loss of EPG data. I have had a reliable EPG for about 2 weeks now, which is the longest I have ever gone without getting the "rebuilding based on set up change" note.

Here is what I did after the last loss of EPG data:

1. I reset the TVGOS system using the numeric code available in this thread.

2. I immediately did a complete reset of the recorder, using the instructions contained in the Pioneer manual.

3. After the reset, I let the recorder scan for channels.

4. I immediately went into the channel editor and turned off one of the two PBS stations that are provided by my cable system. I get PBS on channels 12 and 13 on my cable system. Channel 13 was where the EPG diagnostic screens told me the guide info was coming from. I turned off channel 12 in the TV tuner.

5. I did the setup for the TVGOS and turned off the unit overnight. The next morning, I selected my cable provider from the list provided and the channel lineup appeared. I immediately edited the channel lineup in the EPG and turned off all channels that I would not record from. This included all news channels, weather, shopping, religion, foreign language, etc.

6. I plugged in the ir blaster that came with the recorder. I don't use it with my setup, and had never plugged it in. The EPG had problems since I got the recorder and never used the blaster. Maybe it had some impact (remote chance,I know).

The next day the programs started to populate the guide, as they always have. The difference, this time, is that once all 8 days were downloaded, the EPG continued to add new days without generating the rebuilding message.

I have no idea which of these changes affected the EPG, or if Gemstar issued something on their end that fixed things.

My guess is that the changes I made did one of two things:

1. Turning off the 2nd PBS station in the recorder's tuner eliminated the recorder somehow getting confused and looking for updates on different channels, or

2. Eliminating the unneeded channels in the EPG channel lineup reduced the amount of information the EPG system had to store and update on a daily basis. As I only experienced the problem once the entire 8 days was loaded into the guide, I'm guessing that some buffer got overrun with too much data. Reducing the number of channels seems to have put the data needed for continuous update within the limits of the recorder (buffer, memory, firmware?).

I did notice that functions like the search function only look for programs on channels that are turned on in the EPG, which seems to support the notion that the recorder is being asked to handle less data each time it is updated.

Every time I have reset the recorder, the EPG starts to populate the very next day, which leads me to conclude that the data is being transmitted reliably from my cable company.

I hope this is a long term solution to my EPG issues. This is the only real criticism I have had of the 531.

Hope this helps someone else with EPG related reliability problems.

Starting third week of perfect EPG reliability using this method.

Starting third week of perfect EPG reliability using this method.

I implemented this solution starting last Saturday. The entire 8 days should be downloaded by tomorrow. I will then see how long it takes for it to bomb out on me. My only question is how many total channels do you have turned on? Also, I notice I have channels that are turned off in the guide but I'm still able to tune to when not in the TVGOS. Have you also noticed this?

Here is what I did after the last loss of EPG data:

1. I reset the TVGOS system using the numeric code available in this thread.

2. I immediately did a complete reset of the recorder, using the instructions contained in the Pioneer manual.

3. After the reset, I let the recorder scan for channels.

4. I immediately went into the channel editor and turned off one of the two PBS stations that are provided by my cable system. I get PBS on channels 12 and 13 on my cable system. Channel 13 was where the EPG diagnostic screens told me the guide info was coming from. I turned off channel 12 in the TV tuner.

5. I did the setup for the TVGOS and turned off the unit overnight. The next morning, I selected my cable provider from the list provided and the channel lineup appeared. I immediately edited the channel lineup in the EPG and turned off all channels that I would not record from. This included all news channels, weather, shopping, religion, foreign language, etc.



I find this very interesting because of the differences between the way the TVGOS is setup on the Pioneers and the Panasonics.

On my Panasonic E-65 or E-500 if I do what you did in #3 (scan for channels), a message will pop up saying that if the automatic channel selection (or some such wording) is performed the TVGOS will be disabled. In other words, Panasonic users cannot do #3 and still get the TVGOS EPG.

Aydu,

Other than being unreliable, the EPG is hated by some 531 users for wearing the HDD by being almost constantly on. I was curious, since you implemented your famous 6 steps method, how often is the EGP download working?

I implemented this solution starting last Saturday. The entire 8 days should be downloaded by tomorrow. I will then see how long it takes for it to bomb out on me. My only question is how many total channels do you have turned on? Also, I notice I have channels that are turned off in the guide but I'm still able to tune to when not in the TVGOS. Have you also noticed this?

I have 3 EPG screens worth of channels turned on. I'm not sure how many channels appear per screen but I know I have to scroll down 3 times to get to the last channel. I'd guess this is about 30 channels.

I don't normally use the recorder for regular viewing. I use the cable connected from the output of the recorder, which gives me the ability to set up the desired channels using the TV tuner. Here, I have everything active, except for the foreign language channels.

I have a harmony remote, so switching between the recorder and the tv is a one button deal.

Aydu,

Other than being unreliable, the EPG is hated by some 531 users for wearing the HDD by being almost constantly on. I was curious, since you implemented your famous 6 steps method, how often is the EGP download working?


I used very similar steps to reset my PIO 531 after epg loss. Although I only have OTA reception on RF in. I run Dish receiver output to L! (with no EPG data). But I only have less than 10 channels turned on. It downloads quite a few, most of them are cable I think) and they are turned off by TVGOS. IT also downloads some OTA channels from town about 60 miles away, and turns them on, I go in and turn them off shortly after they appear.

My EPG stays illuminated on the PIO display most of the time. It does go away for short periods. Occcassionally I hear the hard disk drive, but it certainly isn't constant. From what I've read in various places, there are 3 different download cycles that are repeated 4 times a day. the three cycles run 3 hours plus 1.5 hours plus .5 hours if I recall. So thats 5 hour blocks, 4 times a day. thats 20 hours per day. I dont think there is actually activity for the much time. As i understand it, it only needs one of them a day. But i think it goes into the listening mode for each of the periods, and ignores the input if it already has it.

I'm not overly concerned with hard disk activity wearing out the hard disk, even at rate I mentioned, my computer hard disk probably runs as much. And in any case, it's probably better off running frequently than not running them trying to run up to speed.

Rick

Aydu,

Other than being unreliable, the EPG is hated by some 531 users for wearing the HDD by being almost constantly on. I was curious, since you implemented your famous 6 steps method, how often is the EGP download working?

My EPG is off more than it ever was before I implemented my "fix". I'm not sure if this is due to fewer channels being updated, or the elimination of one of the two PBS stations.

I have found the EPG to be very reliable, except for programming that runs overtime - like football. Programs following these type of events will record based on the original EPG time, not when the program actually begins.

You can manually add time to programs like this, if you know there is a possibility of a game going past the scheduled time.

My hard drive does make noise while the EPG is present on the recorder. Having worked with computers for years, I don't have any concern about wearing out the hard drive before I would replace the recorder.

Computers with regular defragging of the drives last longer than the computer's usefulness. Every computer I've replaced worked fine, just got too old technology wise.

These DVD recorders record over a gig of info everytime a one hour recorder is made in SP (the default) mode. I don't think updating the EPG is going to create too much wear and tear.

I suspect I'll end up replacing my 531 in a few years due to a technology change (Blu Ray/HDDVD) HD recording capability, etc.

My EPG is off more than it ever was before I implemented my "fix".

Great! But still, it it on 2 Hours/day, 8 Hours/day, 20 Hours/day? Actually, I'd be interested to know who has the least download time and still get reliable TVGOS.

I've never measured the EPG off or on time. Before my "fix" the recorder had the EPG on the display almost all the time. Since the fix it is off frequently.

The downside of the EPG being off is that it takes some boot up time when you power the unit up. When EPG is showing on the display, it powers up immediately.

Computers with regular defragging of the drives last longer than the computer's usefulness.Just to nip any possible misconceptions in the bud... defragmenting a disk drive can improve the performance of the drive (if it had lots of fragmented files or freespace) but should have negligible effect on reliability. The only real reliability issue would be if the software couldn't handle a very badly fragmented file structure (due to bugs or insufficient memory to keep track of linked file pointers), or if the performance became so poor (due to the drive constantly having to move the heads back and forth) that the drive couldn't accept or deliver data quickly enough for smooth recording or playback. Even so, it wouldn't be a physical media problem - data on the drive would still be perfectly readable.

I have 3 EPG screens worth of channels turned on. I'm not sure how many channels appear per screen but I know I have to scroll down 3 times to get to the last channel. I'd guess this is about 30 channels.

I don't normally use the recorder for regular viewing. I use the cable connected from the output of the recorder, which gives me the ability to set up the desired channels using the TV tuner. Here, I have everything active, except for the foreign language channels.

I have a harmony remote, so switching between the recorder and the tv is a one button deal.

Aydu,
I have only one full EPG Screen full of channels. That is about 10 channels that I currently have turned on. I agree that so far the EPG indicator is turned off more often now that I only have 10 channels turned on. The entire 8 days of data has already been downloaded so now its a matter of waiting. I also don't use my pioneer to view live television so the fact that all of those channels are turned off doesn't effect me. I just found it odd that TLC and Food Channel are the only two channels that are turned off in the TVGOS however I can still tune to those channels. If I do tune to one of those channels then press the TV Guide button, the channel is greyed out in the grid and each time slot says "Off". Also the program description indicates that no information is available for that channel.

Anyways, I'm hoping this works. If it does then I will be very gratefull.

Since I don't know where your cable co. is in relation to you, not sure, but it might be better to use you true Zip Code...maybe later if these things don't work.

Once you get channels, and if your TVGOS is still either not working or working "v-e-r-y slowly" (one result I've found from having multiple PBS channels), you need to first find out what your Host channel is.

Do this in the TVG menu:
Press TVG Button>
Go to SETUP >
Go to "Change system settings" (highlight only, don't press Enter) >
Enter these #s: 753159852 [it's an "X" "I" key pattern] >
At grey screen, right arrow to next grey screen and look for Host Chan
(it may have numbers like 1:0,XX -- the "XX" is the part to remember) >
Press TV GUIDE button to exit

That will be your "designated" Host channel (except it may be for that other Zip and not yours? We'll see later?) It "should" be a PBS station.

Go to TV GUIDE > "Change channel display" and find your Host channel AND the other PBS channel(s) you receive.

Turn OFF all other PBS channels, leaving your Host channel ON.

Now, you'll have to have more patience and see if that does any good. (If no help, try entering your true Zip, but then you'll have to check for Host channel again...just to make sure it's not different?)

Thanx.

I will give that a try.

My cable co.(Adelphia) is located in the next town over from me, and i am using that zip where it was located, so i should get that channel lineup(this would be the correct one for me). I am kinda located in between two different line-up areas. The next zip closest too me(just a mere mile and half down the road) has a different Adelphia channel line-up then me.

If I go to the Adelphia homepage, and type in the zip code of the town a mile away(if I actually type in my correct zip code which my mailing address uses, it doesn't know where the hell I am/or who I am. Go figure) it asks me to choose between one of two offices located near me.

One has one channel lineup(this would be for the town closest to me, and is not my line-up. Again go figure. Someone drew a map with a line, and I fell on the other side of it.), and the other one(this is office's ZIP I use, as this should help me) has the correct channel line-up for me in my area.

Very Confusing, I know. I must live in some hole ripped in the fabric of the Universe.

WABJXO,

I did the above method you recommended, and on the screen I got for Host chan was this:

Host Channel:


That's it. Every other heading had something(VIB channel I think was 1:02 or something) next to it, but the Host channel heading was COMPLETELY BLANK.

Does this mean a bad machine, or that my cable co. just sends Zero TVGOS information at all over there?

If it is the latter, i can't see that being a problem, since I will have none of the so called "grinding" people refer to, and will just continue to Timer record everything.

I will post the same results in the EUREKA thread to see if I get any answers there as well.

I did the above method you recommended, and on the screen I got for Host chan was this:

Host Channel:

That's it. Every other heading had something (VIB channel I think was 1:02 or something) next to it, but the Host channel heading was COMPLETELY BLANK.

Does this mean a bad machine, or that my cable co. just sends Zero TVGOS information at all over there?
So far your DVR hasn't "found" a Host channel (or a Host channel hasn't found you?).

The next logical step is for you to go to your channel list (Change channel display menu) and see if you have channels yet, and if so, are any PBS channels in the list? Post here the result?

So far your DVR hasn't "found" a Host channel (or a Host channel hasn't found you?).

The next logical step is for you to go to your channel list (Change channel display menu) and see if you have channels yet, and if so, are any PBS channels in the list? Post here the result?

I am assuming you mean the TVGuide channel list, right?

What I mean is that during the first/basic setup the unit asks you if you have cable, or antenna, or nothing, and I selected CABLE and the unit AUTOMATICALLY began to scan for channels(I didn't ask it, it just did it. On a VCR, or any other unit I have ever used, it asks you if you want to do an auto scan, or a manual search. This unit just automatically begins a AUTO channel search).

After getting all of my cable channels that are coming through the RF input, I just finish the basic set-up.

During the AUTOMATIC TIME SET the unit asks me to put in the channel for the AUTO TIME SET. I tried my PBS stations(13 and 15) and got nothing. Should the unit be doing that, or if there was a host channel at all in the initial scan, wouldn't it automatically TUNE to that channel, and not ASK ME to manually put it on?

Thanx again

I am assuming you mean the TVGuide channel list, right?

What I mean is that during the first/basic setup the unit asks you if you have cable, or antenna, or nothing, and I selected CABLE and the unit AUTOMATICALLY began to scan for channels(I didn't ask it, it just did it. On a VCR, or any other unit I have ever used, it asks you if you want to do an auto scan, or a manual search. This unit just automatically begins a AUTO channel search).

After getting all of my cable channels that are coming through the RF input, I just finish the basic set-up.

During the AUTOMATIC TIME SET the unit asks me to put in the channel for the AUTO TIME SET. I tried my PBS stations(13 and 15) and got nothing. Should the unit be doing that, or if there was a host channel at all in the initial scan, wouldn't it automatically TUNE to that channel, and not ASK ME to manually put it on?

Thanx again
Don't worry about the clock right now...I couldn't find ANY clock-setting channels in my area either so set manually.

It appears you do have channels, and IF you see both PBS channels in the list, try this first: turn OFF the "odd" channel (15?) and leave the Pittsburg WQED (13) ON (it is ON, isn't it?).

While you wait to see the result of this (if any), you could call one or both PBS stations (WQED for sure) and check with their engrg to see if their Gemstar TVGOS inserter/encoder is working or not. (That's all they can do is "check.")

WQED Tel # is 412-622-1300 (switchboard) or 412-622-1370 (cust. svc)

I am going to do what you want right now. I shall return in a few minutes.

I will have to do it in the manual channel area of the HOME MENU(in other words SKIP the channel) as my TVGUIDE grid has nothing. Only says NO DATA COLLECTED or something.

WQED Tel # is 412-622-1300 (switchboard) or 412-622-1370 (cust. svc)

GOOD LORD!

You really are the PBS man. I am going to do this right now.

By the way, I kept the original zip, as I figured this will give me the correct lineup, as compared to the othe I mentioned.

I am going to do what you want right now. I shall return in a few minutes.

I will have to do it in the manual channel area of the HOME MENU(in other words SKIP the channel) as my TVGUIDE grid has nothing. Only says NO DATA COLLECTED or something.
NO! don't do that!

Using the TV GUIDE button, go to SETUP > Change channel display menu.

There you should see all the channels your DVR found...I hope!

Are there channels listed in that menu?

It sounds like my host channel for the Toshiba TV is channel 12. I have an email in to that station (which is FOX network here), to see if they do indeed carry TVGOS data for Gemstar. I'll recheck my Pio, but last time I was in the debug, it showed a host channel of 10, which is our PBS station here.

There are certainly two differnct versions for the TVGOS at least. The debug screens are quite a bit different from my Pio to my Tosh TV. Tosh TV is 2 years old. I also noted on the TVGOS web site, it lists a number of specific products for one support page, and tells all other products to use a different support page.

Rick


Well, my latest run for good EPG is from Feb 1 - Feb 18. It failed sometime after the overnite update, since using a search for a show, it found an episode for Feb 25th and had a description. The Toshiba TVGOS is still fine.

This is after switching cables from TV to PIO to make sure it wasn't just poor feed to the PIO. I did the following this morning to try out some other ideas:

1. I reset the TVGOS system using the numeric code available in this thread.

2. I immediately did a complete reset of the recorder, using the instructions contained in the Pioneer manual.

3. During the reset, I chose auto time (I tried manual time before). I tried using channel 12 (An independent station not PBS) for time sync, but it wouldn't sync. I had to choose channel 10. It did a time sync in little less than a minute.

4. I let it scan for channels

5. I then went into the channel editor (TV not TVGOS) and turned off channel 10 (PBS station), which is what it has always used as it's host channel. I notice that even though I say I turned it off, I really am just telling the tuner to skip that channel (which may be good, since it has to be the auto time channel).

6. I then went into the TVGOS setup screen and re-entered everything.

7. One last thing I did was to set up a manual timer record from the L! input (something I wanted to record was coming on in couple of hours).

I'll post what results are. I'm not sure what to expect with my previous host channel set to skip. Based on past experience, I should have a channel line-up by this evening, and listing data by tommorrow morning.

I'll post results.

Rick

NO! don't do that!

Using the TV GUIDE button, go to SETUP > Change channel display menu.

There you should see all the channels your DVR found...I hope!

Are there channels listed in that menu?


Wab,

Actually, I think what he sees in that screen is all the channels that he has TVGOS data for, not what channels the DVR tuner found.

The channels found by the Tuner are located in another menu in the TV -> Initial set-up -> Tuner section.

Rick

Rickie:
In one of my stupid experiments, I turned OFF my Host channel (PBS 10) via the TVG Change channel display menu. That resulted in a tamed-down EPG, only on the display for a few minutes after turning the DVR off, and there was No Data in any of the 8 days.

Even tho' I turned it off, channel 10 showed as my Host Chan, it appeared on screen normally, and I could tune to it using the channel up/down button (something you can't do with any other normal channel...it will skip).

It'll be interesting to learn the results of turning the Host channel off thru the Home Menu...esp. whether or not you see the same result as I did using the other method!?

NO! don't do that!

Using the TV GUIDE button, go to SETUP > Change channel display menu.

There you should see all the channels your DVR found...I hope!

Are there channels listed in that menu?

Well, I couldn't do it anyway, even if I wanted too. In the manual it states(in a tiny subtext): NOTE THAT YOU CAN'T USE THE AUTO CHANNEL SETTING OR THE "SKIP" FEATURE(IN THE MANUAL CHANNEL SETTING) AFTER COMPLETING THE TVGUIDE SETTING.

Anyway, I went and did what you said above, and as I said, in the box where the CHANNEL LISTINGS SHOULD BE is:

THERE IS NO DATA FOR THIS SCREEN

That is what I get, and what I have always gotten.

Well, I couldn't do it anyway, even if I wanted too. In the manual it states(in a tiny subtext): NOTE THAT YOU CAN'T USE THE AUTO CHANNEL SETTING OR THE "SKIP" FEATURE(IN THE MANUAL CHANNEL SETTING) AFTER COMPLETING THE TVGUIDE SETTING.

Anyway, I went and did what you said above, and as I said, in the box where the CHANNEL LISTINGS SHOULD BE is:

THERE IS NO DATA FOR THIS SCREEN

That is what I get, and what I have always gotten.
OK, now I'm with you. Apparently, your TVGOS hasn't done anything yet...it's stuck in limbo somewhere. Several options now:

1-Wait until tomorrow am and see if you get any data in that TVGOS screen.

2-Do a TVGOS reset (which doesn't delete any recordings already made or TIMER REC programs). For that, use the procedure above, except after you enter the first set of numbers, then enter a 2nd set: 653274147.
The unit will power off, then turn it back on and re-setup the TVGOS system. I would enter my true zip code even tho' it may be a diff. lineup and see if that makes any diff.

3-Next step would be a hard reset that cleans out channels, TVG, etc. after which you start over with Home Menu > Setup Navigator. Do this with unit ON, press Stop and Power keys ON THE DVR simultaneously, and unit powers off. This wipes any TIMER REC programs you've set up but cleans it to factory settings (recordings on HDD are safe). Again, consider using your true Zip code?

I will try option #2 first, and then #3 if neccessary.

I haven't made any recordings yet, and am not to concerned as most of my shows are in repeats now anyway(LOST and SMALLVILLE).

With #2, are you saying do what you stated before to get to the menu which would show me the HOST Channel, and then just enter the number sequence mentioned above? I am guessing that is what you mean(I printed out the other post you made so I will have that sequence of numbers to get to that menu, and I will print the above post).

I should mention this( and I will respond to PITMAN in the other thread as well): Pitman mentioned turning the unit ON and OFF and see what channel it TUNES TO during shutdown. Well I did that, and at one point it automatically tuned too channel 1 for some reason.

The funny thing is, that on my cable line-up Channel 1 is nothing. Won't come up in an Auto scan or anything. I would have to MANUALLY add it if I want. The reason i mention the last point is because if i were to TUNE to channel 1 just using the TV, I would get a BLEEDOVER, if you will, of either channel 4 or 5 on my cable lineup. Both these channels are religious channels. If I were to use the FINE TUNING on my TV(which the Pioneer WON'T ALLOW me to do as I have already initiated the TVGOS set-up, SKIP or anyfine tuning at all) I could FINE TUNE in the channel onto channel 1. I can't remember which one it is, but could just FINE TUNE using the TV to see.

I wonder if this is the problem. The Pioneer is getting the BLEED OVER from channel 1(remember, channel 1 does not appear in my channel line-up after the auto scan) causing it confusion, when it should be tuning to channel 4 or 5 for the info. I wonder if that is it.

Makes me think I should do #3 first, and then go through the whole set-up process(except I would skip the TVGUIDE set-up initially) and MAYBE MANUALLY ADD channel 1? I can't hink of anything else being the issue with this.

What do you think.

I am going to post in the thread to Pitman, that we are disscussing this here. Maybe the three of us can figure this out.

STEELERSRULE: Is channel #1 the only channel the DVR goes to after switching off the unit? Usually, it will then cycle to one or more other channels. If nothing is being broadcast on channel 1 (nothing is on my provider) I highly doubt EPG is coming over that bandwidth.

I will try option #2 first, and then #3 if neccessary.

I haven't made any recordings yet, and am not to concerned as most of my shows are in repeats now anyway(LOST and SMALLVILLE).

With #2, are you saying do what you stated before to get to the menu which would show me the HOST Channel, and then just enter the number sequence mentioned above? I am guessing that is what you mean(I printed out the other post you made so I will have that sequence of numbers to get to that menu, and I will print the above post).

I should mention this( and I will respond to PITMAN in the other thread as well): Pitman mentioned turning the unit ON and OFF and see what channel it TUNES TO during shutdown. Well I did that, and at one point it automatically tuned too channel 1 for some reason.

The funny thing is, that on my cable line-up Channel 1 is nothing. Won't come up in an Auto scan or anything. I would have to MANUALLY add it if I want. The reason i mention the last point is because if i were to TUNE to channel 1 just using the TV, I would get a BLEEDOVER, if you will, of either channel 4 or 5 on my cable lineup. Both these channels are religious channels. If I were to use the FINE TUNING on my TV(which the Pioneer WON'T ALLOW me to do as I have already initiated the TVGOS set-up, SKIP or anyfine tuning at all) I could FINE TUNE in the channel onto channel 1. I can't remember which one it is, but could just FINE TUNE using the TV to see.

I wonder if this is the problem. The Pioneer is getting the BLEED OVER from channel 1(remember, channel 1 does not appear in my channel line-up after the auto scan) causing it confusion, when it should be tuning to channel 4 or 5 for the info. I wonder if that is it.

Makes me think I should do #3 first, and then go through the whole set-up process(except I would skip the TVGUIDE set-up initially) and MAYBE MANUALLY ADD channel 1? I can't hink of anything else being the issue with this.

What do you think.

I am going to post in the thread to Pitman, that we are disscussing this here. Maybe the three of us can figure this out.
On the TVG reset, yes, enter the 2nd # after the 1st# with grey screen w/Host Chan listed.

I have experienced TVGOS problems (slow or lose days) when my Host station had an antenna fire and was operating at half-power, so I'm curious about the possible bleed-over you mentioned. With a weak or "bad" signal, TVGOS may be not very "fault-tolerant" (not sure?)?

You should probably check your cabling to make sure it is good...replace feed coax with one you know is good. Do you have a splitter in line before the DVR? Does your TV show all channels OK? Looking now for "other" potential problem areas so we can eliminate those....

And, of course, call WQED to check that 1st link in the chain that HAS TO work before anything else (and some have found to be their problem all along).

PITMAN,

I did that only once, and never again. Just thought I should mention it.

WABJXO,

My cabling is good(RG6), and my signal must be pretty good since all channels come in very well to excellent.

I should mention that I DO have SPLITTER(It is a Zenith DIGITALhigh end splitter, which runs the gamut of signals from analog to 2 GHZ) which SPLITS my incoming cable(again RG6 cable being used) to 2 sources. I have it going directly to my TV, and then the other one going into my DVR(or DVD recorder, if you will, as my Panny ES30V was set up the same way).

I have to have it this way(maybe i could think of another set-up) because then I send the incoming signal via the RF OUTPUT from the DVD RECORDER to my A/B selector switch(this is for my HDTV TUNER, an LG LST-4200A[LOVE IT!!!! BEST EVER!!!]) which has BOTH my antenna and CLEAR QAM I get from my cable Co. for HDTV/digital stations. But this in essence is Separate from everything as the only connection involving the DVD recorder is the RF output(I basically use it as a passthrough), so I won't have to use a three-way splitter to source everything I want. The DVD Recorder is just a passthrough for the cable signal to the A/B selector, which passes my antenna and CLEAR QAM cable(my cable period) to my HDTV TUNER.

That is my set-up.

PITMAN,

I did that only once, and never again. Just thought I should mention it.

WABJXO,

My cabling is good(RG6), and my signal must be pretty good since all channels come in very well to excellent.

I should mention that I DO have SPLITTER(It is a Zenith DIGITALhigh end splitter, which runs the gamut of signals from analog to 2 GHZ) which SPLITS my incoming cable(again RG6 cable being used) to 2 sources. I have it going directly to my TV, and then the other one going into my DVR(or DVD recorder, if you will, as my Panny ES30V was set up the same way).

I have to have it this way(maybe i could think of another set-up) because then I send the incoming signal via the RF OUTPUT from the DVD RECORDER to my A/B selector switch(this is for my HDTV TUNER, an LG LST-4200A[LOVE IT!!!! BEST EVER!!!]) which has BOTH my antenna and CLEAR QAM I get from my cable Co. for HDTV/digital stations. But this in essence is Separate from everything as the only connection involving the DVD recorder is the RF output(I basically use it as a passthrough), so I won't have to use a three-way splitter to source everything I want. The DVD Recorder is just a passthrough for the cable signal to the A/B selector, which passes my antenna and CLEAR QAM cable(my cable period) to my HDTV TUNER.

That is my set-up.
If not too late, before you do any resets, and if you can afford to be without the split and A/B switch, connect the incoming feed directly to only the DVR RF IN, and the RF OUT direct to your TV...no splitter, no switch. That will see if the switch might be adding some feedback to the DVR (my cable co. found that in my setup, except it was in a component on their line). I'm also curious about a "digital" splitter (not knowledgeable there at all). TVGOS needs an analog signal. Anyway, a direct hookup to the DVR and TV will test a "native" or "pure" setup...AFTER you check WQED's Gemstar "genie" of course. You could also hook rabbit-ears to the DVR, leaving it out of the other equip. setup...assuming you're close enough to Pitt. to get WQED OTA?

HOLD THE PHONE! Do you subscribe to DIGITAL cable? If so, maybe your cable co. doesn't deliver the PBS station's analog TVGOS data, or WQED doesn't bother to include it anymore (PBS went "all digital" in 2003 but networked states usually include the analog TVGOS data...PA is not a networked PBS state, so each station decides for itself what to send...).

If that's the case...no analog TVGOS data sent or passed thru by the cable co. (some strip the data, I've heard), you may have to forgo TVGOS and just set TIMER REC programs. I do that, even tho' I've got a great TVGOS...usually. Since it's not rock-solid stable, better not to rely on it. The only thing TIMER REC loses w/o TVGOS is the name of the program recorded...big deal. Watch the Thumbnail for a few sec. or read the date and time, whatever. This may be the way you end up???????????

I will try that. I NEED to have my HDTV tuner get a signal(ever watch HDTV, you never go back. :) )

I will try this(I have yet to do any reset yet.):

I will run my incoming cable line DIRECTLY to my DVD Recorder in the RF input. Then run a cable from the RF output on the DVD Recorder to the SPLITTER(this should TOTALLY NOT INVOLVE THE DVD RECORDER, as I will be simply using it as a PASSTHROUGH for the SPLITTER SIGNAL), then send one to the TV RF INPUT, and the other one to the A/b selctor switch for my HDTV tuner.

The DVD Recorder would ONLY be getting the FIRST connection, bypassing everything, and only using the RF output from the DVD Recorder as a PASSTHROUGH for my cable signal(which should not effect the incoming signal at all, and hopefully not my HDTV SIGNAL or TV signal in anyway, I hope.)

I will try that. But do you think I should do a HARD RESET FIRST, therefore starting from scratch the whole process, using the closer ZIP(I can't see how that is the problem, as the zip I use is a major metroplitan area, for here at least, and that is the main area where the cable is distributed, and is only about 3-4 miles down the road from me. Like I said, someone drew a line, and I fell on the other side of it, or I live in a RIP IN THE FABRIC OF THE UNIVERSE somehow?) as you recommended, or don't even bother. Take it one step at a time. If I need to do a reset, then do it, but not out of the gate.

Your help has been greatly appreciated.

STEELERRULE:

I haven't read your last post, but read what I added to my last post.

WABJXO,

No, I don't subscribe to digital cable, just analog. No cable box or anything, about 67 channels(Old school, I know).

I should mention that the digital/HDTV I get from my cable co. is via CLEAR QAM(no scrambling of channels) and through them I get the PBS digital/feed(not sure if it is it's NATIONAL FEED, or the WQED FEED), but I also get analog PBS/WQED on channel 13/Pittsburgh, and on channel 15(analog) of my cable line-up the PBS station out of Akron, OH(it station ID are channels 45/49 UHF. I don't remember the stations ID letters)

Those are my PBS stations, locally through my cable Co on those analog stations.

WABJXO,

No, I don't subscribe to digital cable, just analog. No cable box or anything, about 67 channels(Old school, I know).
OK, I just had an "epiphany" when I read that you had a "digital" splitter and wondered why. Since I don't really know if a digital splitter could be causing a problem with an analog signal (feedback, etc.), I'll leave it at "just concerned." Hopefully, we'll hear from a splitter expert?

If you feed the DVR directly with RF IN, that should boil things down closer to "truth." (I still believe you may end up like me...Damn the TVGorpedos, TIMER REC all the way!?)

ADDED: I was trying to suggest that you eliminate any sources of "feedback" particularly the A/B switch. I'm thinking that, if the TVGOS system needs "quiet time" to do its job (can't be on, etc.), any source of feedback might be making the off periods "noisy times"? Far out, I know, but since you're in a location ripped in the fabric of the Universe, anything is now possible???

I will do this today(remove the splitter), and see over the next couple of days the results, which I will post here(no resets or anything, just keep things the way they are out of the gate. If nothing happens, I will do the TVGOS reset first, and then enter in the closer ZIP, but I can't see how that will affect anything).

Thanx to this forum, I knew going in what to expect with this unit. I didn't go in blindly, I knew all of the facts. That is why it is great that WalMart has that 90 day return policy and can just refund my CC if not satisfied.

Will wait and see though, but from my experiences with electronics(and cars) that have bugs or problems from the get-go, that is only the beginning of the troubles. Not that Pioneer is a bad company, but this might be a bad unit. It happens. Sometimes they are rushed to fast to market(The Sirius S50 is a PRIME EXAMPLE of this. TONS OF PROBLEMS with firmware/software that needs fixing/fixes and even then there are still problems for some. And alot of people don't have the knowhow or time to get these update/fixes, and I don't blame them for putting that unit down. Others will differ in their opinion) without proper testing unfortunately.

My Panny ES30V, granted a VCR/DVD Recorder, has been FLAWLESS/SPECTACULAR since I got it close to a year ago this upcoming April. It is a great recorder, and has been an excellent trooper from the beginning, with no problems(The first batch of these that were made were MADE IN JAPAN. Now this might not mean anything to most people, but to me the quality is better with things made in Japan, as opposed to outsourced to places like Malaysia, or Singapore, which the next batches and all subsequent units were made. Again, others will feel differently then I do).

I get all my research done here first, and then make my purchases.

It helped me build my Home theater, and continue to add to it.

A little tear just ran down my cheek. THANX TO THE FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will post(nest week probably) to let you know, if any of the above stuff helped.

"Made in Japan" used to be a joke, but now I think it's reversed!

One company I worked for sold and shipped some equip. to Japan for assembly. When our techs got there, they said the Japanese techs were "circling" our stuff, speaking in Japanese of course, but saying the equivalent of "Cheap American Cr*"!!!

. . . I haven't made any recordings yet, and am not to concerned as most of my shows are in repeats now anyway(LOST and SMALLVILLE)
. . . Will wait and see though, but from my experiences with electronics (and cars) that have bugs or problems from the get-go, that is only the beginning of the troubles.
. . . My Panny ES30V, granted a VCR/DVD Recorder, has been FLAWLESS/SPECTACULAR since I got it close to a year ago this upcoming April. It is a great recorder, and has been an excellent trooper from the beginning, SteelersRule- I know this will sound terribly critical, but please try to recognize that the criticism is not of you directly. Rather, a critique of our joint obsession (all here) with the bangles and baubles that adorn, and entrap, our toys and our leisure pursuit.

Your problem is not with electronics or cars. The problem is notably buggy third-party software. Just a SWAG . . . reading here infers you have a 50-50 chance of TVG eventually providing a very-slow-scrolling, searchable week-at-time GUIDE. In exchange you'll offer your new HDD on the altar of head-thrashing sacrifice, as many as four times per day. You'll also need to banish your pet "to the backyard" lest her constant scratching casts noise & critters over your peace. AND, once achieving this pinacle of Guide success, it will sporadically render you with a completely empty list, thereupon descending into yet another 24 hours of head-scratching while it gathers its bits from heaven.

Your Pioneer recorder easily surpasses your older one in each and every electronic feature and function. Its recording performance, picture quality, capture, edit and archive enhancements ... these equal or exceed those of more expensive equipment (apparently a dominant opinion, here). It's HDD capture/edit is unlike anything your older unit has provided. The contrast is day-over-night~!

YET ... you still have NO IDEA how well the Pio's editing enables archiving? :eek: ... how conveniently and effectively it can absorb full-fidelity video and transcode it per whatever density you deign? You haven't yet BEGUN to judge how the electronics perform ... which is the metric by which you have praised the older "RECORDER." (Metaphorically), you're frustrated by a too-narrow opening thru which you must pack her trunk, so you've yet to fill the tank on your new baby and give her a short road test~! :D

Unfortunately you've wasted a week setting it up to perform with a poorly implemented, half-baked "service" provider (TVG). Pioneer ('for shame') took their eye off the ball - I really hope you don't waste your 'two remaining strikes' until Walmart's sunset. If targeted correctly, your recorder is a $300 bargain. Your original question was, "Can I forget the EPG and do manual timer recording?"

That was surely THE RIGHT question. Don't forget it, and become lost down this alternate fork in the road . . . take WABjxo's advice and take advantage of that Timer Rec button! ;)
... (I still believe you may end up like me...Damn the TVGorpedos, TIMER REC all the way!?)
p.s. Curious about the Mfg.date of your new 531?
(It's printed right over the serial no. on the shipping box).

Rickie:
In one of my stupid experiments, I turned OFF my Host channel (PBS 10) via the TVG Change channel display menu. That resulted in a tamed-down EPG, only on the display for a few minutes after turning the DVR off, and there was No Data in any of the 8 days.

Even tho' I turned it off, channel 10 showed as my Host Chan, it appeared on screen normally, and I could tune to it using the channel up/down button (something you can't do with any other normal channel...it will skip).

It'll be interesting to learn the results of turning the Host channel off thru the Home Menu...esp. whether or not you see the same result as I did using the other method!?

By this evening (around 6-8 hours), I had a channel listingin the TVGOS, no data. I went in and customized channels, turning off a few I dont recieve, and re-arranging order.

I checked the TVGOS diagnostics, and even though I had set Channel 10 to be skipped by tuner, it still shows up as my host channel. So at this point I went into TVGOS channel edit and set Channel 10 to off. I've notice through the evening that EPG has appeared and disappeared a couple of times.

I'll check status tommorrow and post results.

Rick

RogerT, one thing that helps make the glacial EPG go better is using the number keys to jump forward / back N hours. While in the EPG just hit a number on your remote and see what happens.

Still no data, now 6 days later ... but the scheduled recordings are working ...


no tvg listings but the scheduled recordings are working

p.s. Curious about the Mfg.date of your new 531?
(It's printed right over the serial no. on the shipping box).

HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) ;)

Just kidding.

Anyway, my Pioneer was manufactured in September 2005, according to the sticker on the box, and in the back of the unit.

I actually asked that question here on the forum, whether or not a later made model might be less buggy than the earlier ones, especially with this Pioneer. I think most felt it would not matter, but if they had to choose they would go for the latest manfactured date as possible.

My local WalMart had 7 of these units, and I believe the were like this:

3 Manufactured in September 2005(I checked the batch to see if they were a separate delivery, but they were all from the same batch)

1 Manufactured in August 2005

1 Manufactured in July 2005

2 Manufactured in May 2005

And even though mine was "made in September 2005", the software/firmware implementation, at least according to that little service menu in there, says June 2005.

Strange.

Rickie:
In one of my stupid experiments, I turned OFF my Host channel (PBS 10) via the TVG Change channel display menu. That resulted in a tamed-down EPG, only on the display for a few minutes after turning the DVR off, and there was No Data in any of the 8 days.

Even tho' I turned it off, channel 10 showed as my Host Chan, it appeared on screen normally, and I could tune to it using the channel up/down button (something you can't do with any other normal channel...it will skip).

It'll be interesting to learn the results of turning the Host channel off thru the Home Menu...esp. whether or not you see the same result as I did using the other method!?

WAB,

OK, yesterday evening I turned off the host channel (PBS chan 10) hoping it would go to the hos channel showing for the Toshiba TV (Chan 12). So, now I've told the tuner to skip scanning channel 10, and I've told TVGOS that chan 10 was off.

This morning morning, had my 3 days of listing (Sun, Mon, nxt Sun). Checked and the host channel still shows channel 10. So it is getting data from PBS chan 10 even though it's off.

I'm back to my original stance that this is a problem that Pioneer need to address. It isn't affecting my Television TVGOS shich is using same antenna feed. Pioneer (or their subcontractor) simply has something screwed up in their software. Somewhere there is a problem handling some minor error and it's bringing the guide down.

To praphrase the vacuum cleaner guy; "I just wanted something that works the way it's supposed to".

Rick