WAB,

OK, yesterday evening I turned off the host channel (PBS chan 10) hoping it would go to the hos channel showing for the Toshiba TV (Chan 12). So, now I've told the tuner to skip scanning channel 10, and I've told TVGOS that chan 10 was off.

This morning morning, had my 3 days of listing (Sun, Mon, nxt Sun). Checked and the host channel still shows channel 10. So it is getting data from PBS chan 10 even though it's off.
Your unit is acting the same way mine did...your Host Chan will NOT disappear when you turn it OFF, it will persist and be tunable no matter what.

But now, with your Host Chan OFF, here's what will probably happen if it acts as mine did (AND it doesn't switch to your other PBS channel...I only have one PBS channel):

You will only see "EPG" in the display for 15 min. or so after you turn the unit off/standby. Your listings will go away, and the TVG LISTINGS screen will show No Listing in every time/channel. ???

This will force you to use TIMER REC for recordings (and only miss the program title after recording due to TVGOS being "off line").

But the end result will/may be a "tamed beast" so to speak.

I hope this is what you expect and want??? Let us know if that's the way your's works too?

I'm on Shaw in Vancouver, using a Motorola DCT2000 set-top box (STB) to receive digital channels. Here's what I've done which may well solve your problems:

- RF Cable from the wall jack to the RF IN of my Pioneer 633.
- RF Cable from the Pioneer RF OUT to the STB RF IN
- S-Video cable from the STB to the Pioneer L1 IN and to my AV receiver (which acts as a switch box for this and other inputs to the TV set)

When I set up the Pioneer, I told it I had an antenna instead of a cable box, and I don't use the IR blaster. So the Pioneer never tries to control the cable box. When I turn the Pioneer off, it automatically scans and picks up the EPG data directly from the RF IN - this is completely transparent and not something you can see happening except from the "EPG" legend in the display.

This works very well for me. I can schedule and/or record any analogue channel directly from the RF input by specifying the channel number. For digital channels, I manually program the Pioneer to record from the L1 input at the correct time, and I separately program the STB using it's "record to VCR" feature to turn on and tune the correct channel at the same time. It's a little more work to do the programming, but it's never failed me and I don't have to worry about the IR blaster not working quite right or having the cable box "possessed" by an EPG channel-changin demon... :)

I think I may be going your route as for setup. I have tried the Cable Box routine and I'm not really diggin' the possession, not to mention all those "No Listing" slots in the TV Guide. The damn thing just doesn't work very well.

How is your 633 working these days? Does the TV Guide work ok with that setup?

I'm in Toronto.

Your unit is acting the same way mine did...your Host Chan will NOT disappear when you turn it OFF, it will persist and be tunable no matter what.

But now, with your Host Chan OFF, here's what will probably happen if it acts as mine did (AND it doesn't switch to your other PBS channel...I only have one PBS channel):

You will only see "EPG" in the display for 15 min. or so after you turn the unit off/standby. Your listings will go away, and the TVG LISTINGS screen will show No Listing in every time/channel. ???

This will force you to use TIMER REC for recordings (and only miss the program title after recording due to TVGOS being "off line").

But the end result will/may be a "tamed beast" so to speak.

I hope this is what you expect and want??? Let us know if that's the way your's works too?

Wab,

I must not have been clear. I turned it off before I had any listing. As soon as the TVGOS had a list of channels, I turned off the channel 10 in TVGOS. ( I had already told the tuner to skip the channel in scanning during initial setup).

I still dowloaded listing AFTER I turned off my host channel. I only have one PBS channel in my area. And I re-checked diagnostics, and it still shows as my host channel. Yes, I can still tune to it manually, but thats a TV tuner thing, not a TVGOS thing. In the DVR tuner, you don't turn off a channel, you simply tell the tuner to skip that channel. Not quite the same thing.

It is still off in TVGOS. It doesnt show up in my listing screen, and shows as turned off in my setup screen. But I still dowloadedsfrom it.

I suspect that none of this changes the way TVGOS gets its information. This is a pioneer implementation of the TVGOS system that is at fault here.

Rick

Having had a working EPG for 3+ weeks, I agree that it is something in Pioneer's implementation of the TVGOS system that is causing the problems with their recorders.

Having manipulated my recorder's settings to aviod losing the EPG data, I have found the EPG download process to work flawlessly with complete information becoming available daily.

my tvg was fine for 2 months or more then it suddenly disapeared
how do i get it back

My conclusion on TVGOS working after reading many posts on subject is that it is highly dependent on your cable system and type of set top cable box. This seems to be true wether you are using Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony or Toshiba etc...

TVGOS refused to load on my Pioneer 531 through my Raleigh Time-Warner SA3250HD cable box S-video input and I have it turned off. I think it might load if I bypassed the cable box and cable RF from cable straight into 531s tuner, But then I would not have Pioneer control over the digital channels.

I use the SA3250HDs VCR commander function (and its IR blaster) to schedule and start/stop recordings on my Pioneer.

If you're still around in this thread, I was hoping you could elaborate on your commander function setup to do timed recordings.

Thx.

Having had a working EPG for 3+ weeks, I agree that it is something in Pioneer's implementation of the TVGOS system that is causing the problems with their recorders.

Having manipulated my recorder's settings to aviod losing the EPG data, I have found the EPG download process to work flawlessly with complete information becoming available daily.

What did you do to perfect it?

Ahh....nevermind I just found your post. I'm going to try to duplicate that.

WAB,

OK, yesterday evening I turned off the host channel (PBS chan 10) hoping it would go to the hos channel showing for the Toshiba TV (Chan 12). So, now I've told the tuner to skip scanning channel 10, and I've told TVGOS that chan 10 was off.

This morning morning, had my 3 days of listing (Sun, Mon, nxt Sun). Checked and the host channel still shows channel 10. So it is getting data from PBS chan 10 even though it's off.



You cannot change the TVGOS host channel by turning it off in the TVGOS channel setup. The purpose of the channel setup is to choose the channels that will have program info downloaded and the channels that will appear when you use the channel up/down button on the remote. The TVGOS will search for an active host channel regardless of the on/off channels.

my tvg was fine for 2 months or more then it suddenly disapeared
how do i get it back

Check for my posts in this thread. There is a note that gives a step by step recap of what I did to get the EPG to work reliably.

I'm not sure I fixed anything, but the setup I currently have gets the Pioneer EPG system working with my cable feed.

Got a DVR-531H off EBay--seems like a good deal at $269 plus shipping.

It is set up with my DirecTV HD Tivo and will be primarily used for archieving/viewing movies off the Tivo hard drive, via the s-video input and some VHS tape editing/conversion. I have performed the "Eureka" set up and, after 3 days, there is no sign of the dreaded EPG or hard drive grinding -- just the permanent red light for "scheduled recording, and the delay at start-up.

The manufacture date is July, 2005. Is it possible to get firmware updates, and if so, how?

I have searched the forum and didn't spot this info, so would appreciate any tips/

THANKS!

I just got off the phone with the Pioneer techie. Anyway, he told me that the cable companies turn on and off the streams which broadcast EPG. So sometimes the host channel will carry it and sometimes not, depending on the cable company. It could be a situation where they allow the broadcast of EPG on certain days during the week, and not necessarily on a daily basis. It all depends on what the cable company has setup with Gemstar. And calling the cable company to find out about this is a total waste of time. I never get anywhere with them.

If there is anyone from the Toronto area who has had EPG data on a regular and steady basis, I would like to know please. That would then blow away the Pioneer techie's conclusion. I think I'll start a new thread just to ask that question.

You cannot change the TVGOS host channel by turning it off in the TVGOS channel setup. The purpose of the channel setup is to choose the channels that will have program info downloaded and the channels that will appear when you use the channel up/down button on the remote. The TVGOS will search for an active host channel regardless of the on/off channels.

Yes, I agree. In fact regardless of where you turn channels off (Tuner or TVGOS), it really shouldn't impact on downloading the TVGOS data. It occurred to me this morning that it would take a pretty silly engineer to design a sysytem to download a electronic data in a "transparent environment", then allow, even encourage folks to risk shutting it down by turning off a channel they don't normally watch, and for which they would have no idea whether that channel had their guide data or not. And I'm not much smarter, since that didn't occur to me until this morning.

Rick

I just got off the phone with the Pioneer techie. Anyway, he told me that the cable companies turn on and off the streams which broadcast EPG. So sometimes the host channel will carry it and sometimes not, depending on the cable company. It could be a situation where they allow the broadcast of EPG on certain days during the week, and not necessarily on a daily basis. It all depends on what the cable company has setup with Gemstar. And calling the cable company to find out about this is a total waste of time. I never get anywhere with them.

If there is anyone from the Toronto area who has had EPG data on a regular and steady basis, I would like to know please. That would then blow away the Pioneer techie's conclusion. I think I'll start a new thread just to ask that question.

I'm in Newmarket on Rogers digital cable. I've been getting reliable EPG data from CFTO in Toronto since mid-January.

I've configured my 533 with RF cable from the wall into a splitter, and from there into both the RF IN on my 533 and my STB. The output from my STB then goes to input L1 on my 533. I told TVGOS that I had both a cable box (on L1) and an antenna (RF IN ), and it picks up the TVGOS data over the antenna connection (ie RF IN). That prevents my IR blaster from cycling the cable box continuously through 900 channels.

Once I set up my system this way, I started getting data within a few hours. I've had no real interruptions now for over a month. I've seen various postings implying that Rogers strips out the TVGOS signal, but that's definitely not the case in my area.

I just got off the phone with the Pioneer techie. Anyway, he told me that the cable companies turn on and off the streams which broadcast EPG. So sometimes the host channel will carry it and sometimes not, depending on the cable company. It could be a situation where they allow the broadcast of EPG on certain days during the week, and not necessarily on a daily basis. It all depends on what the cable company has setup with Gemstar. And calling the cable company to find out about this is a total waste of time. I never get anywhere with them.

If there is anyone from the Toronto area who has had EPG data on a regular and steady basis, I would like to know please. That would then blow away the Pioneer techie's conclusion. I think I'll start a new thread just to ask that question.

If you can stand the pain, call Pioneer service back. They are just giving you a run around. (Actually calling them back won't accomplish much, beyond letting them know that folks really do notice that their product isn't working the way it is supposed to.

Rick

Well, that may very well be the problem. Just in the design of the product and how TV Guide is setup on it. However, if you think about it, how difficult is it really to transmit this data to the TVGOS and have the onscreen display? It shouldn't be that complicated.

I started a thread for users in the Toronto area to report their stability with the TVGOS. But I suspect we will never know how many of the Pioneer DVR users actually have TV Guide working well, because if they do, why would they post here? We probably just hear from people who have problems. And who is to tell if that only represents a small percentage of those owing these units that actually do function well?

Hard to say.

I'm in Newmarket on Rogers digital cable. I've been getting reliable EPG data from CFTO in Toronto since mid-January.

I've configured my 533 with RF cable from the wall into a splitter, and from there into both the RF IN on my 533 and my STB. The output from my STB then goes to input L1 on my 533. I told TVGOS that I had both a cable box (on L1) and an antenna (RF IN ), and it picks up the TVGOS data over the antenna connection (ie RF IN). That prevents my IR blaster from cycling the cable box continuously through 900 channels.

Once I set up my system this way, I started getting data within a few hours. I've had no real interruptions now for over a month. I've seen various postings implying that Rogers strips out the TVGOS signal, but that's definitely not the case in my area.

Thanks so much for your feedback.

I did not tell the unit that I had antenna (RF IN). I only selected Cable, and then Cable Box.

I will try that and see if it makes the difference! I think that may just do the trick.

Cheers.

Oh, BTW, why do you use a splitter instead of using the RF out from the DVR into the STB?

Thanks so much for your feedback.

I did not tell the unit that I had antenna (RF IN). I only selected Cable, and then Cable Box.

I will try that and see if it makes the difference! I think that may just do the trick.

Cheers.

Oh, BTW, why do you use a splitter instead of using the RF out from the DVR into the STB?

I had no success getting any TVGOS data until I added the antenna connection on RF IN, so that may solve your problem as well.

I use a splitter because both the 533 and my cable box want to be first in line from the wall. The cable box (SA Explorer 3000) won't pass the TVGOS signals to the DVR, while the DVR prevents services like Rogers-on-Demand from working. Rogers confirmed for me that they were unable to see my cable box when it was connected AFTER the DVR.

Guess what? All this EPG problem may go away soon for everyone!

During a search for TVGOS info. I read today that 2006 models will have the "new" TVGOS system and today's models will not be upgradeable!

No details in what I read, but it "could" involve Gemstar's "new" product that they call "IPG." It MAY also involve sending the TVGOS data via digital signal and satellite thru National Datacast, a PBS for-profit spinoff company. PSIP? (No clue about how that might affect Canada?)

Surely, if any of this is true, they will "have to" include some source for the analog-based EPG?

Something to chew on....

I had no success getting any TVGOS data until I added the antenna connection on RF IN, so that may solve your problem as well.

I use a splitter because both the 533 and my cable box want to be first in line from the wall. The cable box (SA Explorer 3000) won't pass the TVGOS signals to the DVR, while the DVR prevents services like Rogers-on-Demand from working. Rogers confirmed for me that they were unable to see my cable box when it was connected AFTER the DVR.

That's good to know. I'll follow your setup.

So, how do you have your TV hook up? Do you send outs from the back of the digital box to the TV? Or do you just have the output from the DVR which means you have to turn on the DVR to watch TV?

So, with your setup, the TVGOS doesn't possess the cable box to download EPG! That's awesome. I couldn't see a way around that.

I just got off the phone with the Pioneer techie. Anyway, he told me that the cable companies turn on and off the streams which broadcast EPG. So sometimes the host channel will carry it and sometimes not, depending on the cable company. It could be a situation where they allow the broadcast of EPG on certain days during the week, and not necessarily on a daily basis. It all depends on what the cable company has setup with Gemstar.I don't buy that as an explanation of why my listings screen is showing the "The Guide is being Rebuilt Based on your Setup Changes" message so frequently. Even though I can't see any data on the listings screen, by using the search function I can see that the data is in fact available, and that new shows are continuing to be downloaded. So the cable company must be continuing to send the EPG data. And if it's true that the cable companies or local stations have "no control" over what the data is, then I don't see how it can be their fault.

Last fall I used to see the "The Guide is being Rebuilt Based on your Setup Changes" message about 30% of the time. Now, it's up to 70-80% of the time, so I rarely see EPG listings unless I bother to use the "search" function. I still love my Pioneer, but I now treat it as a machine with no EPG functionality and rely on getting programming info from the web (Zap2It) and use manual timer entries for recording.

BTW, I'm in Vancouver and subscribe to Shaw cable. According the the TVGOS setup screens my host channel is "9", which is CTV.

I just got off the phone with the Pioneer techie. Anyway, he told me that the cable companies turn on and off the streams which broadcast EPG. So sometimes the host channel will carry it and sometimes not, depending on the cable company. It could be a situation where they allow the broadcast of EPG on certain days during the week, and not necessarily on a daily basis. It all depends on what the cable company has setup with Gemstar. And calling the cable company to find out about this is a total waste of time. I never get anywhere with them.

This may be the case in Canada, but in the US Gemstar contracts with individual broadcast stations to carry the EPG data, not cable companies. Cable companies pick up the EPG signal along with the broadcast signal from that station. The cable companies get involved when they alter the signal to strip off the EPG data, or the signal is lost in the conversion from analog to digital.

The TVGOS is downloaded daily and a new day is added during each download. That is how the schedule remains at 8 days. If the EPG is carried only on certain days, then it would be totally useless, because the EPG would always have gaps in it. That is not how the TVGOS works on my recorder. It always has a full 8 days in the EPG.

Sean,
I would have to agree with you about what the Pioneer rep said. It's just passing the buck.

Did you try the setup the way Pete_L has it?

That's good to know. I'll follow your setup.

So, how do you have your TV hook up? Do you send outs from the back of the digital box to the TV? Or do you just have the output from the DVR which means you have to turn on the DVR to watch TV?

So, with your setup, the TVGOS doesn't possess the cable box to download EPG! That's awesome. I couldn't see a way around that.

My TV is connected to the DVR output, so the DVR does need to be on to watch TV. Because I configured it with both 'antenna' and cable inputs, my channel listings include both the cable and OTA versions of each channel. I've turned off most of the OTA channels, because I'm really only interested in the CFTO signal on the RF IN which is where my TVGOS data comes from. But with this setup, the DVR will happily schedule and record for any available channel -- whether it's on the digital signal through the STB or the analog signal on RF IN.

Guess what? All this EPG problem may go away soon for everyone!

During a search for TVGOS info. I read today that 2006 models will have the "new" TVGOS system and today's models will not be upgradeable!

No details in what I read, but it "could" involve Gemstar's "new" product that they call "IPG." It MAY also involve sending the TVGOS data via digital signal and satellite thru National Datacast, a PBS for-profit spinoff company. PSIP? (No clue about how that might affect Canada?)

Surely, if any of this is true, they will "have to" include some source for the analog-based EPG?

Something to chew on....

I located this also while searching for new TVGOS info. In it they describe the TVGOS "IPG", but it was written in 2004 and refers to what we call the "EPG". http://www.nielsenmedia.com/newsreleases/2004/Gemstar_TVGuide.htm In fact Gemstar itself calls the TVGOS an IPG: http://ir.gemstartvguide.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=111956&p=irol-homeProfile. My guess is that people are using EPG and IPG interchangeably.

I have not found any info describing a "new" TVGOS IPG. Can you point us to the site that describes this new TVGOS. I have already seen the National Datacast site. Is that what you are referring to?

Added in edit:

I think I found what you are referring to. I found this discussion of the "new" 2006 TVGOS at the sound&vision site: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1086&page_number=1

It is somewhat cryptic, but does suggest that a new TVGOS EPG will arrive in 2006 (promises, promises). It does mention that current TV users with cable card will not be able to upgrade their units, but does not mention DVD recorders. Since we know that the TVGOS EPG program can be upgraded in DVD recorders, let's hope that any improvements in the EPG will be enjoyed by us.

My TV is connected to the DVR output, so the DVR does need to be on to watch TV. Because I configured it with both 'antenna' and cable inputs, my channel listings include both the cable and OTA versions of each channel. I've turned off most of the OTA channels, because I'm really only interested in the CFTO signal on the RF IN which is where my TVGOS data comes from. But with this setup, the DVR will happily schedule and record for any available channel -- whether it's on the digital signal through the STB or the analog signal on RF IN.

Hope you're still following the thread.

I have come across a snag. I did the setup just like you have. After telling TVGOS that I have cable, cable box and antenna on RF in, I turn the DVR off, and EPG comes on. It still grabs hold of the cable box and starts cycling through all the stations. I suppose on the initial setup it does this to compare channels with the TVGOS lineup to match them. But, when it gets to channel 100 which is one of the ROD stations, it stops. It gets stuck on that channel, and I'm wondering if it's because the On Demand stations are "two way" and confuse the DVR?

Perhaps I should do the initial setup with the cable out from the DVR to the digital box which will filter out the On Demand signal? Then after it does the 24 hours setup, I'll switch to direct in to terminal from splitter?

One other thing I wanted to ask you. How many channels are displayed originally on your TVGOS from the digital box? I have only 107. It stops there. I know I get around 180 channels, not including the music stations. So, I'm missing around 80. The Pioneer tech told me it was because there is limited memory in the DVR. But, I'm not sure this is the case.

The TVGOS cycles through all the cable box channels in order to find the TVGOS host channel.

Hope you're still following the thread.

I have come across a snag. I did the setup just like you have. After telling TVGOS that I have cable, cable box and antenna on RF in, I turn the DVR off, and EPG comes on. It still grabs hold of the cable box and starts cycling through all the stations. I suppose on the initial setup it does this to compare channels with the TVGOS lineup to match them. But, when it gets to channel 100 which is one of the ROD stations, it stops. It gets stuck on that channel, and I'm wondering if it's because the On Demand stations are "two way" and confuse the DVR?

Perhaps I should do the initial setup with the cable out from the DVR to the digital box which will filter out the On Demand signal? Then after it does the 24 hours setup, I'll switch to direct in to terminal from splitter?

One other thing I wanted to ask you. How many channels are displayed originally on your TVGOS from the digital box? I have only 107. It stops there. I know I get around 180 channels, not including the music stations. So, I'm missing around 80. The Pioneer tech told me it was because there is limited memory in the DVR. But, I'm not sure this is the case.
The cycling effect on your cable box is simply your DVR looking for a TVGOS signal. It scans through all the channels it can find until it finds a channel that's transmitting the TVGOS data. That channel needs to be an analog signal, since the data is sent in the VBI part of the transmission. You probably need to be patient for a while, like at least overnight. It may stop cycling occasionally, but I don't think an on-demand channel should really be any kind of a problem.

I don't know what the effect of simply disconnecting your digital box from the DVR would be, but I think you could accomplish the same thing by simply turning your digital box off while TVGOS is searching. It should be able to find a host station fairly quickly on your RF IN connection. In the Toronto area, that should be CFTO.

I didn't actually do any kind of count of the number of stations that were populated. There were far more than I'll ever want to record from, and rearranging them and turning off some of the stations is a very slow and painful process. It's quite possible that I'm limited to around 100 stations as well.

I hope that helps.

Hope you're still following the thread.

I have come across a snag. I did the setup just like you have. After telling TVGOS that I have cable, cable box and antenna on RF in, I turn the DVR off, and EPG comes on. It still grabs hold of the cable box and starts cycling through all the stations. I suppose on the initial setup it does this to compare channels with the TVGOS lineup to match them. But, when it gets to channel 100 which is one of the ROD stations, it stops. It gets stuck on that channel, and I'm wondering if it's because the On Demand stations are "two way" and confuse the DVR?

Perhaps I should do the initial setup with the cable out from the DVR to the digital box which will filter out the On Demand signal? Then after it does the 24 hours setup, I'll switch to direct in to terminal from splitter?

One other thing I wanted to ask you. How many channels are displayed originally on your TVGOS from the digital box? I have only 107. It stops there. I know I get around 180 channels, not including the music stations. So, I'm missing around 80. The Pioneer tech told me it was because there is limited memory in the DVR. But, I'm not sure this is the case.

Pitman i live up in Brampton and seem too have have some of your problems.

I also have a pioneer 633 and a scientific atalanta digital cable box that goes up too channel 999. I also only get 107 stations downloaded. I am not too sure how they are chosen . Guess it is first come first loaded.

Have been trying for several weeks now to get program listings but to no avail. I get everything else. Tried different setups including the splitter before the dvr but still only get the channel lineups and no listings. 107 channels in any order, could be 3,6, 129, 127 and then maybe 361.

THought I was doing something wrong but see that i am not the only one. Maybe it takes longer to download. Seems strange that everything else downloads and listings do not.

Good luck !!!

I didn't actually do any kind of count of the number of stations that were populated. There were far more than I'll ever want to record from, and rearranging them and turning off some of the stations is a very slow and painful process. It's quite possible that I'm limited to around 100 stations as well.

I hope that helps.

Yes, thanks again. You mentioned that you have the Scientific Atlantic Explorer 3000, I'll have to check my model (I'm at work now, and can't remember which it is). But, it may be the type of box that could be causing the problems. Who knows?

I tried the setup up again from scratch again last night. Got up this morning, and the EPG was off, so I turned on the unit. The channels were loaded in TVGOS, but all the time slots had that dreaded "No Listing" tag. I scrolled through all 8 days were the same. Not one program title loaded. Either I'm doing something wrong that I just have not noticed yet, or the fault lies with the Pioneer, or cable box.

I did the setup again before leaving for work and will check again. I think I may just try switching the cable box to see if that has any effect.

Sidenote: Just got off the phone with Rogers. I have a 3200. I don't really have any problems with the unit. So, chances are the fault doesn't lie there.

The cycling effect on your cable box is simply your DVR looking for a TVGOS signal. It scans through all the channels it can find until it finds a channel that's transmitting the TVGOS data. That channel needs to be an analog signal, since the data is sent in the VBI part of the transmission.
But I thought you said with the Antenna RF IN, the DVR would go there to find the host channel. Whenever you turn off your DVR, does it not grab a hold of your digital box and start switching channels?

tinman52, are you telling the DVR that you have antenna as well as cable box?

My TV is connected to the DVR output, so the DVR does need to be on to watch TV.
I'm curious why your DVR has to be on to watch TV. Mine is connected to TV with RF and A/V inputs and, since the DVR RF is pass-thru, I can watch TV by selecting the "antenna" input with DVR off. To play something recorded on the DVR, I select "input 1."

Does your cable box complicate your setup so you can't do this too?

I'm curious why your DVR has to be on to watch TV. Mine is connected to TV with RF and A/V inputs and, since the DVR RF is pass-thru, I can watch TV by selecting the "antenna" input with DVR off. To play something recorded on the DVR, I select "input 1."

Does your cable box complicate your setup so you can't do this too?


In your setup though, you can't watch digital channels that way, only analogue?

How exactly is your digital terminal hooked up to your DVR and TV?

In your setup though, you can't watch digital channels that way, only analogue?

How exactly is your digital terminal hooked up to your DVR and TV?
My curiosity is satisfied...I don't have digital cable service, only analog!

But I thought you said with the Antenna RF IN, the DVR would go there to find the host channel. Whenever you turn off your DVR, does it not grab a hold of your digital box and start switching channels?



My DVR no longer cycles the channels on my cable box because it's managed to find the TVGOS channel. Yours sounds like it's still looking. I suspect it needs to get through the whole list of possible channels at least once, after which it should hopefully just settle on the one it finds on your 'antenna' RF IN.

I gather you've received your channel lineup but no listings yet. That seems to indicate you've found a host channel. In my area, Rogers cable is all-digital except on channels in the 800 range. If yours is different, your DVR may find an analog signal on a lower channel and use that rather than using a channel from your RF IN input.

If you go into diagnostic mode, you should be able to tell whether a host channel has been found and if so, which channel it's on. There are numerous postings that tell you how to use the diagnostic screens. I won't try to describe the precise procedure from memory since many others have documented it.

I suppose another possibility is that there are still TVGOS transmission problems in your area. There were issues in the Toronto area in January, but everything I've read seemed to indicate it was resolved around the end of the month. In Newmarket, mine started working around mid-January.

I don't know what the nature of the problem was, but it was related to individual local cable systems rather than the actual host channel.

Panasonic provided the following info, but it was applicable to all TVGOS products rather than just those from Panasonic:

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/notice2.asp

Yes. The CTV channel it likes on the box is 808 for hosting. And on the Antenna RF IN, it's 8. Which is basically the same as 808 on the box.

But, after the initial setup, what I'd like to know, is does your DVR seek TVGOS data from the RF IN from channel 8 or from your box on channel 808? Can you check your diagnostic mode to see what your host channel is?

In your setup though, you can't watch digital channels that way, only analogue?

How exactly is your digital terminal hooked up to your DVR and TV?
I take back my last post...I'm still curious!

I don't have digital cable, but if I did, I believe the 533 would pass the digital signal thru to the TV, which DOES have a digital tuner! That way, I wouldn't have to leave the 533 on???????

Yes. The CTV channel it likes on the box is 808 for hosting. And on the Antenna RF IN, it's 8. Which is basically the same as 808 on the box.

But, after the initial setup, what I'd like to know, is does your DVR seek TVGOS data from the RF IN from channel 8 or from your box on channel 808? Can you check your diagnostic mode to see what your host channel is?

My host channel is channel 8 on the RF IN. Before I added the antenna to my configuration it used to depend on finding channel 808 but it wasn't able to do that reliably. For whatever reason, my DVR now ignores the 808 signal and simply uses the signal from RF IN channel 8. The diagnostic screen shows my host channel as 1:8.

I take back my last post...I'm still curious!

I don't have digital cable, but if I did, I believe the 533 would pass the digital signal thru to the TV, which DOES have a digital tuner! That way, I wouldn't have to leave the 533 on???????

My RF IN signal is analog, and I feed a digital signal into the DVR on L1. If I were to connect the RF OUT to my TV, I guess I could get an analog signal on my TV with my DVR off.

But since I have a much clearer digital signal available, I prefer to watch that one. The L1 connection (with my digital signal) doesn't appear to be pass-thru. No picture appears on the TV until I turn on the DVR.

The L1 connection (with my digital signal) doesn't appear to be pass-thru. No picture appears on the TV until I turn on the DVR.
You're right, none of your Line Inputs are pass-thru when off...only the RF.

Pete_L

I'll continue to work with the DVR setup until I can get it working that way. Up until now my host channel has been 808, and that has proved unreliable.

Thanks again for the feedback!!

Would a "combiner" do any good in your setups? Radio Shack sell a signal combiner/splitter for $9.95 that combines digital and analog signals from two sources. (It doesn't work for satellite, tho.) Not sure how it works or how good it is.

I'm starting to think that the problematic EPG on Pioneers has something to do with incompatibility with the make and model of cable box. I currently have the SA Explorer 3200 with Rogers. If my EPG doesn't load today, then I will exchange the cable box for another model, perhaps the 3000 that Pete_L is currently using (who has no problems with the EPG). If my problems go away, it will show that there was a hardware incompatibility. I'll post my results if I do the switch.

I found something of possible interest to others re: EPG/TVGOS.

I did a numbskull test of an idea I've been wanting to try: hooking a splitter up backwards to combine two signals into one. I did the test with a rabbit ears and my analog coax, and had to disconnect the RF IN from my 531 and put into one of the outs on the splitter. The rabbit ears were amplified type. The picture looked OK with rabbit ears amp off, but a little snowy with amp all the way up.

But that's not the interesting part: the coax on the DVR was only out for about 5 min., and when I hooked it back to the RF IN on the DVR, all 8-days of my perfectly working EPG and TVG listings were gone, and the "Rebuilding due to setup change..." message appeared.

Apparently, the TVG can be lost from either (1) just disconnecting the RF IN from the DVR, (2) inserting a "perturbated" signal (two antenna feeds with reduced dB), or (3) combination of both.

Even if the EPG was in burst mode at the time (~1:00 pm CST), it might be an indication that the EPG is not very "fault-tolerant" and must have a continuous, strong signal to survive. It seems that if the EPG was interrupted, it shouldn't just DUMP EVERYTHING...it should be able to "pick up where it left off" even if it was downloading at that exact time!?

Unfortunately you've wasted a week setting it up to perform with a poorly implemented, half-baked "service" provider (TVG). Pioneer ('for shame') took their eye off the ball - I really hope you don't waste your 'two remaining strikes' until Walmart's sunset. If targeted correctly, your recorder is a $300 bargain. Your original question was, "Can I forget the EPG and do manual timer recording?"

I beg to differ with your assertions that the TVGOS EPG is half-baked. I have been using it for almost 10 months, and it has been extremely reliable and I use it exclusively to record TV programs. However, I am using it on a Panasonic, who have implemented it very well in their recorders (whisper quiet with no flashing display).

Rather, I would point to Pioneer and their incredibly poor implementation of the TVGOS EPG, including thrashing HDDs, and the omnipresent "EPG" on the display.

My thoughts on the matter... ;)

I beg to differ with your assertions that the TVGOS EPG is half-baked. I have been using it for almost 10 months, and it has been extremely reliable and I use it exclusively to record TV programs. However, I am using it on a Panasonic, who have implemented it very well in their recorders (whisper quiet with no flashing display).

Rather, I would point to Pioneer and their incredibly poor implementation of the TVGOS EPG, including thrashing HDDs, and the omnipresent "EPG" on the display.

My thoughts on the matter... ;)

I agree.

I'm using it on a Pio 531 with atrocious results, while the same OTA signal (I have a splitter) goes to a Toshiba TV with TVGOS. The Tosh TVGOS works flawlessly, while the Pio fails quite often.

Pioneer is the one whoe should be getting the flack, not Gemstar or the TVGOS system.


Rick

Yes, so far, Pioneer really sucks with TVGOS. It should not be this difficult to get up and running.

I have finally concluded that it has nothing to do with the cable company. Pioneer were trying to tell me that the fault lies with Rogers. Well, everytime I setup the system with just the analog line in, no cable box, it works. I get TVGOS data, and everything is right with the world. The moment I hook up the cable box, everything falls apart. All I get are boxes and boxes of "No Listing".

So, it is most definitely the Pioneer and it's compatibility with the cable box hook-up. Since there is a chap in Newmarket who has a Pioneer working well with TVGOS with his cable box, a different model than what I have, I would say that there are just some cable boxes that are not compatible with the Pioneer. And the fault then lies with Pioneer. But I have also read report here where Pioneer users have no problems for a month or two, then they start losing EPG data. So, you just never know when the nightmare will begin. I'd like to find just one Pioneer TVGOS user who has had flawless operation for at least a year.

I will have to rule out any settings I made on the cable box itself, like for instance, I had volume fixed, I had tinkered with the audio settings.

Does anyone know if the EPG data relies on audio signal as well as video??

The "audio" idea may be "far out" but then it may also have some merit...I just found out today that, if you fool with the RF IN (video and audio signal), like disconnect it for a few minutes or introduce an "unclean" signal, the TVGOS system DUMPS EVERYTHING!

You'd think it could stand more than a short loss of signal w/o DYING!

I also have had occasions while running "tests" of changing a channel location in a listing, followed by the infamous "Rebuilding..." message.

I'm beginning to think the Pio designers don't know the words "fault tolerance" since it seems to see any changes in its perfect environment, even ones they designed in, a "Setup Change"!!!

My TVGOS has worked perfectly for long periods (between my tests) as long as no one looked at it sideways! I hope the 640 has a better system implementation.

Does anyone know if the EPG data relies on audio signal as well as video??

The TVGOS EPG data is carried in the VBI part of the broadcast signal (the part that can't be seen on the TV). No audio is involved.

The TVGOS EPG data is carried in the VBI part of the broadcast signal (the part that can't be seen on the TV). No audio is involved.

Ok. And that is interesting because when I came home to find all those "No Listing" boxes on the TV Guide, I entered the diagnostic mode. It found the host channel ok, but the VBI channel was on 0 meaning Zero. Now, what the heck does that mean?

wabjxo

Your TVGOS is working fine because you don't have to deal with a cable box! When you throw a cable box into the mix, the stability of the EPG dissolves!

My DVR no longer cycles the channels on my cable box because it's managed to find the TVGOS channel. Yours sounds like it's still looking. I suspect it needs to get through the whole list of possible channels at least once, after which it should hopefully just settle on the one it finds on your 'antenna' RF IN.

I gather you've received your channel lineup but no listings yet. That seems to indicate you've found a host channel. In my area, Rogers cable is all-digital except on channels in the 800 range. If yours is different, your DVR may find an analog signal on a lower channel and use that rather than using a channel from your RF IN input. . . . .
wabjxo,
As a dyed-in-the-wool TiVo subscriber, I have no interest in the EPG by TVGOS. But I do feel it's unfortunate that so many are so frustrated by Pioneer's apparently faulty implementation.

Anyhow, Pete's above comment on the previous page made me recall yours and others ... that your listing goes blank if you disconnect the RF line. Do you think, as Pete implies above, that after targeted to use TVG, each Pioneer wants to find a source channel and then remain married to it 24/365? Ergo, cut the link to that channel (or maybe even have it go off-air for a minute?) and Pioneer immediately bails-out and starts looking for a new source? Just an idle thought ...

wabjxo,
As a dyed-in-the-wool TiVo subscriber, I have no interest in the EPG by TVGOS. But I do feel it's unfortunate that so many are so frustrated by Pioneer's apparently faulty implementation.

Anyhow, Pete's above comment on the previous page made me recall yours and others ... that your listing goes blank if you disconnect the RF line. Do you think, as Pete implies above, that after targeted to use TVG, each Pioneer wants to find a source channel and then remain married to it 24/365? Ergo, cut the link to that channel (or maybe even have it go off-air for a minute?) and Pioneer immediately bails-out and starts looking for a new source? Just an idle thought ...
I believe you're right, altho' others will argue. I've posted this before, but an "expert" article I read stated that TVGOS/EPG works with a "constant, but very low-level connection" (may have been "contact" or ...), with "bursts" for the actual data download at scheduled times. My EPG seemed to stay on almost 24/7, and silently too...when it is working!

I think it's a disruption in the low-level connection (from any/many possible sources, apparently) that "disrupts" the system. My test above seemed to suggest it KILLS the system and it has to have a new rebirth via "Rebuilding due to setup change..."! i.e., NO FAULT TOLERANCE!!!

P.S. Fault-tolerance in electronic systems is difficult to achieve, but not impossible, except here where the risk/reward equation is pretty meaningless.

...the coax on the DVR was only out for about 5 min., and when I hooked it back to the RF IN on the DVR, all 8-days of my perfectly working EPG and TVG listings were gone, and the "Rebuilding due to setup change..." message appeared.

Apparently, the TVG can be lost from either (1) just disconnecting the RF IN from the DVR, (2) inserting a "perturbated" signal (two antenna feeds with reduced dB), or (3) combination of both.I get this happening all the time with no interruption of the cable signal. If you use the TVGOS "search" function you will likely find that all of your program info is still in the machine, it just won't display on the "Listing" screen.

I get this happening all the time with no interruption of the cable signal. If you use the TVGOS "search" function you will likely find that all of your program info is still in the machine, it just won't display on the "Listing" screen.
That's NOT where I want the program info...I want it on the %$#&#$ LISTINGS screen, where it belongs......in a perfect world, of course!

I'm starting to think I will take back this Pioneer and buy a Panasonic. From most of the reports, the Panasonic and TVGOS work much better together. And what is the point of buying a unit that has TV Guide in it that doesn't work properly??

I beg to differ with your assertions that the TVGOS EPG is half-baked. I have been using it for almost 10 months, and it has been extremely reliable and I use it exclusively to record TV programs. However, I am using it on a Panasonic, who have implemented it very well . . .
Sorry, I should have been more explicit. There's no surprise that TVG is problematic when it must knit its software with various hardware mfgs, and further with hundreds of divergent providers ... yet attempt to offer a single user-experience. And while I'm a very satisfied Pioneer owner, I grant here (and above) that they screwed up their TVGOS implementation.

That TVG works on your Panny - Good for you! As a TiVo fan, I'm accustomed to a vastly better guide-experience than the TVG capabilities I've read about on this forum, which leaves me with no taste whatever for the TVG solution ... a seemingly ponderous software interface with no wishllists and no season's passes. If that's all one's ever seen, I suppose it's better than zip, and not surprising for a free, bare-bones choice. Too bad you cannot elect the free, basic TiVo instead.

Since I have no good view of the OTA signals I'm a dedicated satellite user, with the obvious benefit that TiVo is happily married to a single programming source. Once one accepts that $50 starting point, Pioneer offers an amazing quilt of entertainment services, excellent PQ, broad configurability, a form of 2-pass encoding, DV-input and dual-layer media - all for $400 or less.

As I said, it's just too bad if someone misses the whole bushel of apples, simply for having found a worm (or half?) in one. :D For those about to toss the Pioneer baby w/ the bathwater, remember that Comcast will imminently offer a DVR with TiVo ... with which those Pioneer apples will really shine!


(how's that Panny at dual-layer recording?) ;)

Pitman, I think you're doing the right thing if you really want TVGOS. I've been a loyal fan of the Pio X33 series and still think it's a great unit for everything EXCEPT the TVGOS. It appears to be too "fragile"..."finicky"..."fickle"...are those the proper electronic terms?

If these Pios didn't have TVGOS, everyone who had them would probably be raving about their goodness...and they are good!

Naw, then we'd be complaining that it didn't have the Panasonic's TVGOS system...now maybe we should be wishing it had the Pioneer guts with the Panasonic TVGOS system?????

P.S. Hey, let's build our own! Should we call it the PanaPio or the PioPan???

I think I know how the Pio Designers designed the TVGOS system. Check this out.

Head Designer (HD): Ok, guys, you're done and now I have some questions.

Designers 1,2,3,4,5 (D1-D5): OK, shoot!

HD: What if someone unplugs the RF input?

D1-D5: Huh!???

HD: Well, what if someone turns the unit on during a data download burst?

D1-D5: Huh!???

HD: Well, come on guys, what fault tolerance have you built in?

D1-D5: What's "fault tolerance"???

HD: Look, guys, just some answers, please!

D1-D5: Sorry, HD, but you just didn't ask the right questions!

Having gone from sporadic EPG listings on my 531 to perfect performance for nearly 4 consecutive weeks, I have come to the conclusion that the EPG problems are on Pioneer's end, not the TVGOS system.

Using straight analog cable, with no decoder box, I lost EPG data frequently. As others have pointed out, programs continued to appear on the search function and weekly or daily recordings continued to record.

The problem was with the listings showing up on the listing screen.

Pioneer has not provided adequate customer support, shifting the blame to Gemstar for resolution.

I don't know exactly what causes the EPG information to get lost, but having it finally work consistently tells me that the data feed from Gemstar is consistent.

I'm still guessing that some firmware setting on the Pioneer units has some bad code that triggers the loss of EPG information. I'm also guessing that the firmware on the recorders is not upgradable, without replacing a chip, or chips. That is probably why Pioneer is looking to place blame on Gemstar, whose feed could be modified to work around bad firmware in the recorders, without the cost to Pioneer to replace the units with the bad firmware.

This is all just a guess, but I know Pioneer has been the subject of class action lawsuits on some of their PC DVD burners for incompatibility with some DVD standards.

On the positive side, I have been extremely pleased with the PQ and ease of use of the 531. I have yet to burn a coaster on the burner. With the exception of the EPG, I would rate the unit at or above my expectations.

Now that my EPG has become stable, I am not going to mess with any of my EPG settings. It was too hard to get where I am today. Wish Pioneer had made it a bit easier.

Ok. And that is interesting because when I came home to find all those "No Listing" boxes on the TV Guide, I entered the diagnostic mode. It found the host channel ok, but the VBI channel was on 0 meaning Zero. Now, what the heck does that mean?

The VBI channel is usually the channel that the recorder is presently tuned to. I don't know why yours would be zero.

Using straight analog cable, with no decoder box, I lost EPG data frequently. Contrary to your experiences, it was the opposite for me. Analog line RF IN was the only way I could consistently get TVGOS. Once I hooked up the cable box, all hell broke loose.
Now that my EPG has become stable, I am not going to mess with any of my EPG settings. It was too hard to get where I am today. Wish Pioneer had made it a bit easier. My EPG has never become stable. And you are using a digital cable box?

Contrary to your experiences, it was the opposite for me. Analog line RF IN was the only way I could consistently get TVGOS. Once I hooked up the cable box, all hell broke loose.
My EPG has never become stable. And you are using a digital cable box?

No cable box in my setup.

No cable box in my setup.What did you do to get your EPG stable?

Having gone from sporadic EPG listings on my 531 to perfect performance for nearly 4 consecutive weeks, I have come to the conclusion that the EPG problems are on Pioneer's end, not the TVGOS system.

Using straight analog cable, with no decoder box, I lost EPG data frequently. As others have pointed out, programs continued to appear on the search function and weekly or daily recordings continued to record.

The problem was with the listings showing up on the listing screen.

Pioneer has not provided adequate customer support, shifting the blame to Gemstar for resolution.

I don't know exactly what causes the EPG information to get lost, but having it finally work consistently tells me that the data feed from Gemstar is consistent.

I'm still guessing that some firmware setting on the Pioneer units has some bad code that triggers the loss of EPG information. I'm also guessing that the firmware on the recorders is not upgradable, without replacing a chip, or chips. That is probably why Pioneer is looking to place blame on Gemstar, whose feed could be modified to work around bad firmware in the recorders, without the cost to Pioneer to replace the units with the bad firmware.

This is all just a guess, but I know Pioneer has been the subject of class action lawsuits on some of their PC DVD burners for incompatibility with some DVD standards.

On the positive side, I have been extremely pleased with the PQ and ease of use of the 531. I have yet to burn a coaster on the burner. With the exception of the EPG, I would rate the unit at or above my expectations.

Now that my EPG has become stable, I am not going to mess with any of my EPG settings. It was too hard to get where I am today. Wish Pioneer had made it a bit easier.

Aydu,
Thanks to your instructions listed in a previous post, my Pioneer 533 is also running perfectly. This is the longest I've gone (2 weeks) so far without loosing the listings. I agree that this definitely looks like an issue with Pioneer. Clearly shutting off most of the channels in the guide allows it to update and retain the information much more consistantly. I think you may have found the solution that everyone should impliment. One note...in your instructions you indicated that you hooked up the IR Blaster just in case. I didn't hook it up on mine and so far it doesn't seem to matter.

As of two days ago, when I go to the Listings view in the TVGOS, I have a new channel at the top of my listings that is named "Last Channel" and has no program information in any of the time slots. Could this be a last channel marker that is supposed to remain invisible but is mistakenly showing up as a real channel?

Perhaps this is an indication that the program guide is running off the end of the data, leading to an eventual reset? What is odd is that the "Last Channel" appears to have a nice logo in the leftmost column just like a real channel.

Has anyone else seen this?

Thanks,
- Mike

As of two days ago, when I go to the Listings view in the TVGOS, I have a new channel at the top of my listings that is named "Last Channel" and has no program information in any of the time slots. Could this be a last channel marker that is supposed to remain invisible but is mistakenly showing up as a real channel?

Has anyone else seen this?

Thanks,
- Mike

Yes, it's the last channel you were watching, that's all.

Aydu,
Thanks to your instructions listed in a previous post, my Pioneer 533 is also running perfectly. This is the longest I've gone (2 weeks) so far without loosing the listings. I agree that this definitely looks like an issue with Pioneer. Clearly shutting off most of the channels in the guide allows it to update and retain the information much more consistantly. I think you may have found the solution that everyone should impliment. One note...in your instructions you indicated that you hooked up the IR Blaster just in case. I didn't hook it up on mine and so far it doesn't seem to matter.

I'd like to think it was that simple. Unfortunately, I only show about 8 channels in my guide and thats about all I've ever shown. Whenever I have to reset, I go in and turn off whatever I dont need. Still fails after about week 3. Maybe I'll get lucky this time though. Granted, I'm running OTA not cable.

Rick

I get the last channel in my EPG when I power up the unit and the EPG indicator is NOT present on the recorder. I interpret this to be when the recorder has received all EPG information for that day and totally powers down.

Powering up from this "off" state generates a "wait" indicator on screen until the unit finishes with the bootup process.

As of two days ago, when I go to the Listings view in the TVGOS, I have a new channel at the top of my listings that is named "Last Channel" and has no program information in any of the time slots. Could this be a last channel marker that is supposed to remain invisible but is mistakenly showing up as a real channel?

Perhaps this is an indication that the program guide is running off the end of the data, leading to an eventual reset? What is odd is that the "Last Channel" appears to have a nice logo in the leftmost column just like a real channel.

Has anyone else seen this?

Thanks,
- Mike


I"m not sure I understand, I've had the last channel on my guide ever since it was set up. Maybe late last summer. It tunes to whatever the last channel I tuned to.

EDIT: I just went in to check, and see that it's labeled Last Channel when my last input was L1 (the only input i'm using beside the OTA to RF1). Otherwise it shows preveiw window of the last channel, but puts cursor in the channel lineup at the last channel.

I also checked my Tosh Television TVGOS implemenation, and it shows the Last Channel label for anything that was last, like what you described, it's simply a channel line above all the others.

Rick



Rick

I"m not sure I understand, I've had the last channel on my guide ever since it was set up. Maybe late last summer. It tunes to whatever the last channel I tuned to.

Rick
Yes, it's just showing you what channel you were tuned to before you entered the TV Guide. Nothing more.

Yes, it's just showing you what channel you were tuned to before you entered the TV Guide. Nothing more.

Agreed, it's the same on my Panasonic E-500 and E-65.

Yes, it's just showing you what channel you were tuned to before you entered the TV Guide. Nothing more.

That makes sense, I just never noticed it before.

Thanks,
- Mike

Okey-dokey.

Well, I'm a new member of this forum. I'm posting this problem here because it seems related to many other issues in this thread. Here's the summary: I got a DVR-531H about a month ago and it's been working fine -- until this past weekend when I went into the channel guide and edited the channel settings. I simply changed their order so they would appear in the same order as my TV standard listing. I have Time-Warner analog cable -- straight in, no cable box. Everything -- including TV Guide -- worked fine until I edited the channel list on the DVR. It has not shown any program listings or channel listings since then. Anytime I go to the TV Guide or channel listing area, it simply says 'TV Guide' is rebuilding your listings (or something like that) and they should be available in 24 hours'. This has been going on for 5 days now.

I've followed the various instructions in this thread. I've used the hacker key to look at my host channel and it is like some other person referenced...it's simply blank. I can't go into my channel listings area because there's nothing there either. I've done a reset and re-setup and you can access channels directly (and the show names even show up via the 'display' function when you do), but there are still no listings of any kind in TV Guide. The only PBS channel is accessible when you tune to it and it is shown as the appropriate channel for auto-timeset.

Thoughts? Any would sure be appreciated.

I've followed the various instructions in this thread. I've used the hacker key to look at my host channel and it is like the other person referenced...it's simply blank.
This just happened to me, and it can easily be fixed by going to TVG > SETUP > Change system settings > No my settings are wrong. Rekey all your previous settings...re-enter Zip and toggle the other settings... don't accept anything that is already there.

I've found that, when there is no Host channel in the debug screen, this is the immediate solution to take. Your LISTINGS should start re-populating within 24 hrs, as advertised.

This just happened to me, and it can easily be fixed by going to TVG > SETUP > Change system settings > No my settings are wrong. Rekey all your previous settings...re-enter Zip and toggle the other settings... don't accept anything that is already there.

I've found that, when there is no Host channel in the debug screen, this is the immediate solution to take. Your LISTINGS should start re-populating within 24 hrs, as advertised.
You da man! I'm going to go do that right now. How strange, though.

I really hope the next release of TVGOS is better and also offers a few more functions. If so (and we can get it on our existing units), I would seriously consider dropping my TIVO service. Thanks a lot.

I simply changed their order so they would appear in the same order as my TV standard listing. I have Time-Warner analog cable -- straight in, no cable box. Everything -- including TV Guide -- worked fine until I edited the channel list on the DVR. It has not shown any program listings or channel listings since then. Anytime I go to the TV Guide or channel listing area, it simply says 'TV Guide' is rebuilding your listings (or something like that) and they should be available in 24 hours'. This has been going on for 5 days now.
What an aggravation! I am just about to edit my channel listings in TV Guide. I'll let you know if I suffer the same consequence.

What an aggravation! I am just about to edit my channel listings in TV Guide. I'll let you know if I suffer the same consequence.
IF you end up with a non-working TVGOS after changing channel lineup, you probably won't do that anymore. But, you may also crash your TVGOS by changing its "default" auto-ON feature; at least I did once or twice. My system worked perfectly only after I left it in total solitude and isolation...consider it a foreign terrorist that needs to be locked up and away from all human contact...it only needs constant RF CONTACT (don't unplug the coax either!)!?

But then, I never used TVGOS for recording, only for its ability to add program titles to my TIMER REC recordings..people who use it for recording won't have that "luxury."

IF you end up with a non-working TVGOS after changing channel lineup, you probably won't do that anymore. But, you may also crash your TVGOS by changing its "default" auto-ON feature; at least I did once or twice. My system worked perfectly only after I left it in total solitude and isolation...consider it a foreign terrorist that needs to be locked up and away from all human contact...it only needs constant RF CONTACT (don't unplug the coax either!)!?

My God, the TVGOS EPG on the Pioneers is so persnickety!!! On my Panasonics, I can change the channel order, disconnect the RF input, and turn off the TVGOS auto-on setting, all with no ill effects!!! My sympathies to all you Pioneer owners with the TVGOS headache.

My God, the TVGOS EPG on the Pioneers is so persnickety!!! On my Panasonics, I can change the channel order, disconnect the RF input, and turn off the TVGOS auto-on setting, all with no ill effects!!! My sympathies to all you Pioneer owners with the TVGOS headache.
Yea, Yea, don't rub it in!

We've already got Tvgenis envy!

Yea, Yea, don't rub it in!

We've already got Tvgenis envy!

:D

I go into another room if I have to sneeze, so I don't risk losing my EPG settings.

NEW "BROADCAST TV TVGO SERVICES (26507)" selection in your TVG > "Yes, but my channel lineup is incorrect" menu???

See new thread I just posted.

I go into another room if I have to sneeze, so I don't risk losing my EPG settings.
Ha ha ha!! How true that is on the Pioneers! Been there. It's like you're skating on thin ice and you don't know when the crack is gonna happen...and whoosh, there goes the EPG. I hope they make better receivers, cause I'm looking at their Elite line as the next purchase before the advent of the Plasma.

My God, the TVGOS EPG on the Pioneers is so persnickety!!! On my Panasonics, I can change the channel order, disconnect the RF input, and turn off the TVGOS auto-on setting, all with no ill effects!!! My sympathies to all you Pioneer owners with the TVGOS headache.
The Toshiba shares that accolade too!

The Toshiba shares that accolade too!


Have you had your Tosh x34 long enough to make comparison yet? Im curious about pic quality and EPG performance compared to the Pio.

Thanks,
Rick

Okey-dokey.

Well, I'm a new member of this forum. I'm posting this problem here because it seems related to many other issues in this thread. Here's the summary: I got a DVR-531H about a month ago and it's been working fine -- until this past weekend when I went into the channel guide and edited the channel settings. I simply changed their order so they would appear in the same order as my TV standard listing. I have Time-Warner analog cable -- straight in, no cable box. Everything -- including TV Guide -- worked fine until I edited the channel list on the DVR. It has not shown any program listings or channel listings since then. Anytime I go to the TV Guide or channel listing area, it simply says 'TV Guide' is rebuilding your listings (or something like that) and they should be available in 24 hours'. This has been going on for 5 days now.

I've followed the various instructions in this thread. I've used the hacker key to look at my host channel and it is like some other person referenced...it's simply blank. I can't go into my channel listings area because there's nothing there either. I've done a reset and re-setup and you can access channels directly (and the show names even show up via the 'display' function when you do), but there are still no listings of any kind in TV Guide. The only PBS channel is accessible when you tune to it and it is shown as the appropriate channel for auto-timeset.

Thoughts? Any would sure be appreciated.
Well, things are not good. I followed the instructions to rekey all the previous settings in TVGOS setup yesterday afternoon, have used the hacker key to look at the status this morning and my host channel is still blank.

Of course, I still have no TV guide listings or anything in the channel display area of 'system setup'. It's been a week now since any info appeared in those areas.

More thoughts, anyone?? Sheeeeeeeesh.

I really loved this DVR-531H the first month I had it and now...well.

dvdboy, since you've done the rekey, and the reset (double-code reset, I assume?), you probably have only four choices now:

1-Wait a little longer...not promising tho'.
2-Call your Host PBS station and ask them if the Gemstar inserter/encoder is working OK. This is a distinct possibility, esp. with the new TVGO Service now broadcasting...maybe caused by some related process missed at the station?
3-Call your cable co. and ask them if they've started doing anything diff. esp. w/PBS signal (e.g., stripping or not transmitting the EPG data). This is unlikely, tho'
4-Do a hard reset of the DVR and reset-up the entire system...then, don't sneeze near the DVR?

If you can't get a tel. # for your PBS Host station, give me the call letters and I'll let you know what it is.

Have you had your Tosh x34 long enough to make comparison yet? Im curious about pic quality and EPG performance compared to the Pio.

Thanks,
Rick
I can make some preliminary comments since I have not had the Toshiba long. The Pioneer is overall a simpler DVR to operate, the remote is more intuitive, the design is sleek. The EPG on the Toshiba is more responsive, I found twice the delay on the Pio after you press a button on the remote. As far as EPG stability is concerned, I will have to get back to you on that one. I've been having issues with my cable box/cable service. As for PQ, I like the Toshiba because there are more customizable options for recording and playback and editing. As far as standard recording of TV shows, both do a great job. The manual or the Toshiba far surpasses that of the Pioneer for detail. I was very glad to exchange the Pio for the Toshiba. Same price here and twice the HDD space!

Of course, I still have no TV guide listings or anything in the channel display area of 'system setup'. It's been a week now since any info appeared in those areas.

More thoughts, anyone?? Sheeeeeeeesh.
I have brought this issue up with both Pioneer and Toshiba service reps. Their response was the same. They told me that Gemstar is having issues with cable companies not broadcasting the EPG reliably. They are aware of the problems and are in the process of working with the cable companies to resolve this. Both reps suggested that cable companies have an agenda to sabotage EPG download because they want their customers to use their menu systems opposed to TV Guide's.

At first I thought this was just a way for the manufacturer to shirk responsibility, but I am starting to believe them. When I had setup the TVGOS properly on either the Pio or the Toshiba, and was getting EPG data, I would find that I would sometimes get this data and sometimes not on certain days. I'm pretty sure there is nothing wrong on my end because I had setup the unit per specs. The only other possibility is that my cable box is not compatible with the DVR. I'm going to switch it to see. But, if anyone is not even using a cable box and is still having problems with EPG reliability, the fault almost certainly lies with certain cable companies.

Here's where the "I got a Panasonic and the TVGOS works great" fellow demonstrates some renewed sympathy for the beleaguered Pioneer DVD recorder users who are constantly frustrated with the TVGOS EPG.

In order to fully understand the problems faced by others in getting their EPG to work, I disconnected my Panasonic E-65 from the direct RF cable input (which was allowing excellent EPG downloads) and connected it to my Comcast digital STB. I performed a hard reset to erase all the TVGOS info stored on the recorder. I connected it according to Panasonic's directions, including hooking up the G-link. All went as planned. The STB (a General Instruments) was recognized by the recorder, and the channels were changed properly when commanded by the recorder.

As told by many, right after turning off the recorder, the STB immediately began tuning through all the channels, I'd say at about 1 channel per minute. I did not watch this for long, but I assume that it cycled through all the channels. Meanwhile the 12:00 AM was flashing the whole time. Now when I had it hooked up to direct RF input, the clock was reset within 5 min. Not with the STB connection, it took several hours for the clock to be set.

After 24 hours, I checked the TVGOS and got the dreaded "no listings" message, and there were no channels displayed. After 48 hours, I got the message, that more than 1 channel lineup had been found for my zipcode. THis was excellent news because the same thing happened with the direct RF input. I chose the correct lineup expecting to see some listings. But, the channel lineup was there, but the dreaded "no listings" display was still there. Thinking that downloading the initial EPG settings might take longer through the STB, I let it go for another 24 hours.

After 72 hours, there were still no listings. Curious, I used the TVGOS debug screens to see what was going on. As expected, there was a host channel, but the identity of the channel surprised me. Most of you know that I have stated that my host channel is not a PBS station. Instead I have 2 commercial stations (ABC and CBS) that serve as my host channels. Well, I was surprised to see "61" as my host channel. The Panasonics list the host channel in hexadecimal, so 61 translates to channel 97!!! I tuned to channel 97 and it is a mirror of channel 12, which is the PBS station in Philly!!! My guess is that this might be a "special" channel just for TVGOS. I cannot for the life of me figure out why ABC and CBS are the host channels for analog input, but PBS is the host channel for STB input. Perhaps PBS is active on the analog input, but the TVGOS stops at the ABC or CBS stations (numerically lower than PBS) because it finds a good EPG signal, and never gets to the PBS station. But on the STB input, the situation might be different.

To make a long story a little shorter, after 96 hours the listings never downloaded. The time was set properly, the channels were all displayed, but there were no listings!

Since I know the TVGOS EPG works over analog cable input (in fact the TVGOS EPG in my E-500 was working perfectly over this same time period), I have come to the conclusion that, in my case at least, the TVGOS EPG does not work over digital cable using a STB. My assumption being that the signal either is incomplete, corrupted, or just plain unreliable over the STB. I will never ever again try to get the EPG to download via a STB. The RF input works almost perfectly, but I have to schedule my digital channels manually -- a small price to pay.

So I have renewed sympathy for the Pioneer users who can't get a decent EPG download. My only suggestion is to try a direct RF input if the STB input doesn't work. If the RF input doesn't work, give it up.

Cheers.

I had a Pioneer 533H for about 3 weeks. During that time I tried like the dickens to secure a reliable EPG system with my digital terminal (Scientific Explorer 3200) with Rogers Cable in Canada. I spent many hours on the phone with Pioneer service people to resolve the issue, and online, in a particular forum called AVS Forum. At the end of it all, I concluded that there must be some hardware incompatibility between the DT and the DVR. Nobody could resolve the issue for me. So, I assumed it was a problem with the Pioneer DVR and took it back to replace it with a Toshiba XS34. Well, I started having the same EPG problems with that unit too. In summary, I will now explain how I resolved the issue.

My cable company went digital a few years ago. In order to reap the benefits of that, you need a digital terminal. They shifted all the analog stations to higher stations numbers (in my case all the analog channels start at 802). When the TV Guide goes through the initial setup it looks for the host station. This is where the DVR gets fooled. In my case, Rogers' host channel is CTV on channel 8 for analog cable subscribers. But for digital cable subscribers that is 808 (in the analog zone). Everytime the EPG tried to donwload, it would go to 808, then 08 then 69. There was something funky happening with the DVR. There was a definite confusion on the DVR/TVGOS part to locate the right channel for VBI. Initially it would find the analog host station up on the 808 band, but would fail in subsequent attempts to download EPG by seeking it on its digital counterpart.

So, when I found out that 808 was actually the host station, not 08 (because I have a DT), I went into the TVGOS Setup and edited the channel lineup. I noticed that 808 was not in the lineup, but 08 was. This wasn't a good thing, because 08 was the digital counterpart of 808. So, I changed the tuning of 08 (digital) CTV to 808 (analog) CTV.

That did the trick. Now whenever I check the diagnostic screen, it always reads host and VBI channel as the same, as it should.

So, bottom line is, if you are using a digital terminal, you need to make sure that the host analog channel is the one TVGOS is tuning to, and not the digital counterpart. There should be only one host station, and that should be analog and that should be in the channel lineup.

Another case of "fancy channel/station switching" that worked! Way to go!

Well, things are not good. I followed the instructions to rekey all the previous settings in TVGOS setup yesterday afternoon, have used the hacker key to look at the status this morning and my host channel is still blank.

Of course, I still have no TV guide listings or anything in the channel display area of 'system setup'. It's been a week now since any info appeared in those areas.

More thoughts, anyone?? Sheeeeeeeesh.

I really loved this DVR-531H the first month I had it and now...well.

Hi DVDboy. What you are describing sound suspiciously like you are absent a TVGOS signal. I know all you did was rearrange your channels but it may have occurred coincidently. Here is a previous post i made of the tell-tale symptoms. see if any of these fit.



1) the display says EPG all the time
2) there is no grinding sound while EPG is showing (the acid test of no TVGOS data as far as I'm concerned)
3) after the unit is in standby over night (off with EPG in the display) and you turn it on to check for the first time in the morning, something strange happens the first time you turn it off. It doesn't shut off right away. It stars to grind for about 20-30s. Then it shuts off. Then usually at this point the time changes from local to GMT.
4) This occurs whether you set your clock manually or automatically. After a day or so you wont be able to set the clock back because it will be grayed out in the menu (both automatic and manual
5) if it is not too long you can do a rescan of your channels which actually allows you to set the clock afterward without losing any (manually) programed recordings.
6) Otherwise you need to do a hard rest of the unit to be able to set the clock back to local time.

Also, there is no need for TVGOS data streams to have your clock set through the automatic option. I had no TVGOS data for weeks (verified from the cable company and the old host channel who terminated their contract with GEMSTAR) and was able to get a time signal from a US PBS channel - Yah wabjxo!

Hi DVDboy. What you are describing sound suspiciously like you are absent a TVGOS signal. I know all you did was rearrange your channels but it may have occurred coincidently. Here is a previous post i made of the tell-tale symptoms. see if any of these fit.



1) the display says EPG all the time
2) there is no grinding sound while EPG is showing (the acid test of no TVGOS data as far as I'm concerned)
3) after the unit is in standby over night (off with EPG in the display) and you turn it on to check for the first time in the morning, something strange happens the first time you turn it off. It doesn't shut off right away. It stars to grind for about 20-30s. Then it shuts off. Then usually at this point the time changes from local to GMT.
4) This occurs whether you set your clock manually or automatically. After a day or so you wont be able to set the clock back because it will be grayed out in the menu (both automatic and manual
5) if it is not too long you can do a rescan of your channels which actually allows you to set the clock afterward without losing any (manually) programed recordings.
6) Otherwise you need to do a hard rest of the unit to be able to set the clock back to local time.

Also, there is no need for TVGOS data streams to have your clock set through the automatic option. I had no TVGOS data for weeks (verified from the cable company and the old host channel who terminated their contract with GEMSTAR) and was able to get a time signal from a US PBS channel - Yah wabjxo!
Yeah, you're right...my EPG display is on all the time and there's no grinding. So, you're saying the cable company (Time-Warner) isn't transmitting the TVGOS stream anymore at all???

I can make some preliminary comments since I have not had the Toshiba long. The Pioneer is overall a simpler DVR to operate, the remote is more intuitive, the design is sleek. The EPG on the Toshiba is more responsive, I found twice the delay on the Pio after you press a button on the remote. As far as EPG stability is concerned, I will have to get back to you on that one. I've been having issues with my cable box/cable service. As for PQ, I like the Toshiba because there are more customizable options for recording and playback and editing. As far as standard recording of TV shows, both do a great job. The manual or the Toshiba far surpasses that of the Pioneer for detail. I was very glad to exchange the Pio for the Toshiba. Same price here and twice the HDD space!

Hi!

I guess I'm following your steps. I had the Pioneer 531 (well, i didn't return it yet) and I just ordered the Tosh X34 from Best Buy for the same price I paid my Pio (sounds familiar?). Disapearing EPG problems, overcame by the Eureka hack made me a reasonably happy user, but now I'm giving a shot to the X34. I can see that I will loose some features, such as DVD+R/RW playback compatibility. I've read some of your preliminary impressions, but I'm anxious for the remainder of your thoughts (or from anyone with experience on both units).

Keep us posted!

That did the trick. Now whenever I check the diagnostic screen, it always reads host and VBI channel as the same, as it should.

On the TVGOS diagnostic screen, the host channel is the station that the TVGOS found the EPG data to download. The VBI channel is simply the channel that the recorder is currently tuned to. There is no other relationship between the 2. I think that the VBI channel is listed in the diagnostic screen to show that the recorder is currently looking for VBI (and the EPG data) on that channel, since that's the channel the recorder is currently tuned to.

For example, if channel 12 has the EPG data, and you have the recorder set for channel 4, the 12 will come up as the host channel, and 4 will come up as the VBI channel.

My TVGOS used with analog RF input worked very well. When I check the debug screen, if I have the recorder tuned to the same channel as the host channel, then these 2 match, otherwise they are different. The host channel and the VBI channel do not have to match for the TVGOS to work properly.

On the TVGOS diagnostic screen, the host channel is the station that the TVGOS found the EPG data to download. The VBI channel is simply the channel that the recorder is currently tuned to. There is no other relationship between the 2.
I completely disagree with you. I just tuned to channel 6, went into the diagnostic screen and the VBI did not change to 6. It's not simply the last channel tuned to. It's the last channel the TVGOS was seeking EPG data on. There's a big difference there. If it's seeking EPG data on a channel other than the host, you got a problem. In the mornings when you get up, and you turn on the DVR and check the diagnostic, if you had a successful download of EPG data, both indicators should read the same channel. At least that's what I've noticed on my system.

I just tuned to channel 6, went into the diagnostic screen and the VBI did not change to 6.
Interesting! Could there be some diff. in the two setups: Pitman thru digital receiver, rgazzara direct from source thru splitter?

(I think that's correct for each???)

I completely disagree with you. I just tuned to channel 6, went into the diagnostic screen and the VBI did not change to 6. It's not simply the last channel tuned to. It's the last channel the TVGOS was seeking EPG data on. There's a big difference there. If it's seeking EPG data on a channel other than the host, you got a problem. In the mornings when you get up, and you turn on the DVR and check the diagnostic, if you had a successful download of EPG data, both indicators should read the same channel. At least that's what I've noticed on my system.

Well, the reason that they are the same in the morning, after a successful download of EPG data is that when that occurs, the last channel the TV was "tuned" to is in fact the TVGOS channel. i. e. when TVGOS fires up at the scheduled time it goes in and finds the TVGOS channel and tunes to it. Downloads the data then shuts itself off. So that is the channel is gets tuned to.

I'm fairly certain that VBI channel changes depending on what channel you are tuning, though I dont's know how fast it cycles aand how frequently the TVGOS actually records what VBI it's on. If you tune to a station, and hit display on the PIO, you should see information about the show you are watching. At least in my set-up it does. It might show something like 6net with the name of the tv show. That information is not coming from the TVGOS data. It's being braodcast live in whats called the VBI of the broadcast itself. This info is totally independent of the TVGOS and for that matter, independent of the names that get put on hard disk for recording.

Now I suppose it's possible the the VBI is stripped out by the cable company, though I dont know why. In which case the VBI data might not work properly.

I have OTA to RF in, and Dish to L1. I often (though not always) see display data for the DISH program showing up when I watch L1. I was excited at first and thought I could force the recorder to use that info for naming the recording on HD, but no luck.

Wab, yes, perhaps VBI data isn't in digital broadcast? I dont know.

Rick

On the TVGOS diagnostic screen, the host channel is the station that the TVGOS found the EPG data to download. The VBI channel is simply the channel that the recorder is currently tuned to. There is no other relationship between the 2. I think that the VBI channel is listed in the diagnostic screen to show that the recorder is currently looking for VBI (and the EPG data) on that channel, since that's the channel the recorder is currently tuned to.

For example, if channel 12 has the EPG data, and you have the recorder set for channel 4, the 12 will come up as the host channel, and 4 will come up as the VBI channel.

I completely agree with you on this, my VBI channel is always the last channel tuned to using my Pio 531 remote whether it be thru TVGOS or the numeric keypad. I am using the IR blaster to control my cable box and getting the EPG data thru L1 off my STB.

I completely disagree with you. I just tuned to channel 6, went into the diagnostic screen and the VBI did not change to 6. It's not simply the last channel tuned to. It's the last channel the TVGOS was seeking EPG data on. There's a big difference there. If it's seeking EPG data on a channel other than the host, you got a problem. In the mornings when you get up, and you turn on the DVR and check the diagnostic, if you had a successful download of EPG data, both indicators should read the same channel. At least that's what I've noticed on my system.

Well that is not the case for my Panasonic E-500 and E-65. Maybe it differs by manufacturers. I have tested this extensively, and whenever I changed the channel that the recorder was tuned to, the VBI channel would change. 1) turn on recorder, 2) view VBI channel, 3) change channel on recorder, 4) VBI channel is now the channel that you set the recorder to. Works every time for me.

Perhaps if you happened to view the diagnostic screens when the TVGOS was seeking EPG data, the VBI channel would be the same as the host channel, but at other times, it is simply set to the channel the recorder is presently tuned to.

Interesting! Could there be some diff. in the two setups: Pitman thru digital receiver, rgazzara direct from source thru splitter?

(I think that's correct for each???)

Quite possibly the cause of the difference. Perhaps when a STB is used, the TVGOS acts differently than with a direct RF input. Interesting.

Well, the reason that they are the same in the morning, after a successful download of EPG data is that when that occurs, the last channel the TV was "tuned" to is in fact the TVGOS channel. i. e. when TVGOS fires up at the scheduled time it goes in and finds the TVGOS channel and tunes to it. Downloads the data then shuts itself off. So that is the channel is gets tuned to.

I'm fairly certain that VBI channel changes depending on what channel you are tuning, though I dont's know how fast it cycles aand how frequently the TVGOS actually records what VBI it's on.

Again, I disagree. I have been tuned to channel 6 for the past 2 hours. The VBI is showing the station it was tuned to when the last EPG data download was attempted (which was about 6 hours ago).

On the VBI thing, I remember doing some tests where I had to go into the debug screens several times in a row, looking for "effects."

I noticed some "strange" things happening in the VBI/Host lines, where things seemed to "persist" from the last time I looked in the debug screens. The same channels showed up, even after I physically changed channels when I re-entered the debug screens.

Maybe this is playing a part in the "abby-normal" behavior!?

I have a new TVGOS problem on my Pioneer 531H, and wondered if any has a solution to it? It is far worse than the disappearing TVGOS which could usually be fixed overnight or worse case in two days. This time the TVGOS won't display at all, nor will the setup prompt ever appear. This happened after getting a REPAIR message on a DVD-RW disc which stayed on screen for over 2 days. When I finally saw the message about REPAIR failed, and could finally eject the disc, the TV Guide would no longer display at all, with or without the grid. No error appears, just won't ever show up. Timer Recording screen won't come up either.

I called the Pioneer help desk, and they said the machine would have to be returned to them for repair. Sounds like software corruption on the hard drive, but they don't have a way for customer to reload.

I've gone through the STOP + Power button combination to reset it a couple of times, but no luck so far.

So I am busy burning/high speed copying all the content to DVD, which still works fine, before I break down and send it back for repairs. Still hoping it might magically fix itself.

At least try the "high-tech" solution first (after offloading HDD):

Unplug overnight?

Sorry, that I don't have any advice to offer you -- I'm just writing this note to document that my STOP + POWER combo on my 531H doesn't do anything at all. Yes, I tried that a couple of times during my persistent problem -- with no effect.

Just a reminder that the reset commands STOP + POWER need to be initiated from the buttons on the recorder itself.

Using these same commands on the remote won't reset the unit.

The manual isn't too clear about this and their are duplicate buttons on both the remote and the unit itself.

Just a reminder that the reset commands STOP + POWER need to be initiated from the buttons on the recorder itself.

Using these same commands on the remote won't reset the unit.

The manual isn't too clear about this and their are duplicate buttons on both the remote and the unit itself.
Well, well, well...yep, that's what I've been trying to do -- enter the commands on the remote. I'm a relative newbie with the DVR-531H, so didn't know this.

Here's an update on my frustrating situation.

'EPG' displays all the time on the front console...faint whirring noise heard from unit.
No listings in TV Guide program listing OR channel display area, yet multiple search functions yield programming listings out to 8 days. Use of hacker key to display diagnostic information reveals blank entry for 'Host chan'.

Actions to date:

Have gone through multiple full resets, but haven't successfully tried the 'reset to factory defaults' yet, since I've been trying to do it via the remote. Will try that next. Have sent email to both local PBS station and Time-Warner asking if there have been any changes to the ways TVGOS info is being transmitted through the local analog cable...no responses yet.

The saga continues...

Again, I disagree. I have been tuned to channel 6 for the past 2 hours. The VBI is showing the station it was tuned to when the last EPG data download was attempted (which was about 6 hours ago).

OK, I believe you, but that's not the way my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 work. If I have the recorder on and I go into the TVGOS debug screens, the VBI channel is always the channel the recorder is currently tuned to. If I change the channel, the VBI channel changes also.

OK, I believe you, but that's not the way my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 work. If I have the recorder on and I go into the TVGOS debug screens, the VBI channel is always the channel the recorder is currently tuned to. If I change the channel, the VBI channel changes also.
That's very interesting. Do you use cable box?

Again, I disagree. I have been tuned to channel 6 for the past 2 hours. The VBI is showing the station it was tuned to when the last EPG data download was attempted (which was about 6 hours ago).


Pitman,

This probably isn't an important point, but I tuned my Pio to Channel 2 around mid-morning. Around 5:00PM I checked debug. It shows a VBI is channel 2, Host channel is 10.

I then tuned to channel 6, just went back in (1hr-15min) and it still shows channel 2. Apparently the tuned to channel doesnt get chagned immediately in the Pio as it does in the Panasonic. But I do know that a VBI exists in all broadcasts, it may or may not carry data. That's probably up to the network and or the station. But it exists. Cable channels may strip the data from the VBI but they cant remove it. It's a necessary part of the signal. It's there to give the electron gun time to move from the bottom of the screen to the top (I'm still taking broadcast TV here).

They use this non-displayed interval to transmit non-displayed data, such as V-chip ratings and program titles.

It sounds like it takes somewhere between 2 hrs and 6 hours for the TVGOS to save it.

EDIT: rechecked after 3.5 hours, VBI channel in the debug screen now shows 0. So I have no idea what the VBI channel is doing in the TVGOS system.



Rick

That's very interesting. Do you use cable box?

No, I use direct RF input to my recorder for the TVGOS.

EDIT: rechecked after 3.5 hours, VBI channel in the debug screen now shows 0. So I have no idea what the VBI channel is doing in the TVGOS system.
Well, I notice on mine it's always on 808 first thing in the morning, which is my analog host station. Which is good. But, later during the day when it tries to download EPG, because I've already received it overnight (Gemstar sends out the same transmission 4X's daily), the VBI channel will bounce to 69. I'm not sure why it settles on that station, but it does. And I know its because TVGOS was looking for new data, but there was none.

Now, what I have also noticed as a difference between the Pioneer, and the Toshiba, is that everytime you turn off the Pioneer, it grabs a hold of the cable box (or cable) and tunes to the host channel to attempt a download. If there is nothing to download, then it will bounce to another station and whatever station it ends up on will show up as the VBI. So, the VBI may change, if you turn your DVR off for 5 minutes and then turn it back on. See if I'm right. In my case, the Toshiba does not contantly possess the cable box every time I turn off the machine. It just awaits the transmission from Gemstar.

There are some differences in the way Pioneer and Toshiba implement TVGOS. Overall, Toshiba has a smoother and more responsive interface.

Pitman,

This probably isn't an important point, but I tuned my Pio to Channel 2 around mid-morning. Around 5:00PM I checked debug. It shows a VBI is channel 2, Host channel is 10.

I then tuned to channel 6, just went back in (1hr-15min) and it still shows channel 2. Apparently the tuned to channel doesnt get chagned immediately in the Pio as it does in the Panasonic. But I do know that a VBI exists in all broadcasts, it may or may not carry data. That's probably up to the network and or the station. But it exists. Cable channels may strip the data from the VBI but they cant remove it. It's a necessary part of the signal. It's there to give the electron gun time to move from the bottom of the screen to the top (I'm still taking broadcast TV here).

They use this non-displayed interval to transmit non-displayed data, such as V-chip ratings and program titles.

It sounds like it takes somewhere between 2 hrs and 6 hours for the TVGOS to save it.

EDIT: rechecked after 3.5 hours, VBI channel in the debug screen now shows 0. So I have no idea what the VBI channel is doing in the TVGOS system.
Rick

That's very interesting!!! It appears the more we discuss the TVGOS system in the Pioneers and the Panasonics the more differences we find. I wonder if it is because the Panasonics I have are a year older (circa 2004) then the Pioneer series with the TVGOS (circa 2005, I believe). Perhaps the TVGOS firmware changed over that period.

We need to hear from someone with a 2005 Panasonic unit with TVGOS. Any EH-50 or EH-60 users care to join in?

Well, I notice on mine it's always on 808 first thing in the morning, which is my analog host station. Which is good. But, later during the day when it tries to download EPG, because I've already received it overnight (Gemstar sends out the same transmission 4X's daily), the VBI channel will bounce to 69. I'm not sure why it settles on that station, but it does. And I know its because TVGOS was looking for new data, but there was none.

Now, what I have also noticed as a difference between the Pioneer, and the Toshiba, is that everytime you turn off the Pioneer, it grabs a hold of the cable box (or cable) and tunes to the host channel to attempt a download. If there is nothing to download, then it will bounce to another station and whatever station it ends up on will show up as the VBI. So, the VBI may change, if you turn your DVR off for 5 minutes and then turn it back on. See if I'm right. In my case, the Toshiba does not contantly possess the cable box every time I turn off the machine. It just awaits the transmission from Gemstar.

There are some differences in the way Pioneer and Toshiba implement TVGOS. Overall, Toshiba has a smoother and more responsive interface.


Pitman,

When I bought the Pio, the other one I was looking at was the Toshiba. I have TVGOS on my Toshiba TV and it works flawlessly (for two yers now). I went with Pio because of price (Wal-mart has good return policy) and some concern over how base IRE level was handled by Toshiba.

I may recosider the Toshiba, or based on some of Rgazza reports, may look closer at Panasonics.

I'm absolutely convinced that TVGOS can be implemeted without problems, since my TVGOS on my television works fine.

Unfortunately, I think Pioneer has refused to accept that they have a problem and just want to pass the buck to Gemstar.

Rick

That's very interesting!!! It appears the more we discuss the TVGOS system in the Pioneers and the Panasonics the more differences we find. I wonder if it is because the Panasonics I have are a year older (circa 2004) then the Pioneer series with the TVGOS (circa 2005, I believe). Perhaps the TVGOS firmware changed over that period.

We need to hear from someone with a 2005 Panasonic unit with TVGOS. Any EH-50 or EH-60 users care to join in?

I have TVGOS on a 2 year old Toshiba television, it looks very similar, but it is slightly different. For one thing there is a messages menu option, and that's where you start to get into the debug screen. A few other minor diffs that I didn't notice until I started checking (HOST channel in debug is shown in hex for example) Oh and one other minor thing, it has worked flawlessly for two years on same antenna my Pio is now on.

Maybe Pio needs to do some head hunting in the Panasonic campus.

Rick

I have TVGOS on a 2 year old Toshiba television, it looks very similar, but it is slightly different. For one thing there is a messages menu option, and that's where you start to get into the debug screen. A few other minor diffs that I didn't notice until I started checking (HOST channel in debug is shown in hex for example) Oh and one other minor thing, it has worked flawlessly for two years on same antenna my Pio is now on.

Maybe Pio needs to do some head hunting in the Panasonic campus.

Rick

Your description matches mine in my Panasonics exactly. I get the host and VBI channels in hex, and I have to go to the "messages" screen to get into the debug screens. And, my TVGOS (at least from the direct RF input) has been almost perfect for about 8 months.

Sounds like we have the same TVGOS version, and that the version on the Pioneers is different. That may explain the differences and the problems.

The 2005 Panasonics (EH-50 [and EH-60 in Canada]) should have the same TVGOS version as the Pioneers. Can somebody with an EH-50 or EH-60 care to comment about their TVGOS? I seem to remember reading that the EH-50 owners were having problems with timer recordings, and that Panasonic uploaded a new firmware file for the these recorders.

Here's an update to my situation. I did a hard reset (Stop + On) on the recorder last night. followed by another full initial setup process and TVGOS setup. This morning, I had TV Guide program listings and entries in the 'channel display' area for the first time in about a week and a half. Also, there was actually a number (my local PBS station) in the Host channel reference in the diagnostic screens.

Of course, I lost all my scheduled recordings, too. Apparently, this is the true fix...I just wish there were a 'softer' one that didn't wipe out the future recording schedule.

Back in bidness.

I did a hard reset a couple of days ago for the usual reasons. The downloading started immediately and all was going well until last night when I pressed the tvguide button to access the listings, etc. The tvguide box came up, but was not legible, just a blur.

I did a hard reset this morning, followed by initial setup, but after that, the tvguide screen did not appear at all. The Home Menu button works, but when I press tvguide on it, nothing happens. I've also tried using the tvguide button on the remote, but still nothing. It's as if the machine works, but the tvguide software has disappeared altogether.

Has anyone heard of this one before or have any suggestions? Thanks.

Just a reminder that the reset commands STOP + POWER need to be initiated from the buttons on the recorder itself.

Using these same commands on the remote won't reset the unit.

The manual isn't too clear about this and their are duplicate buttons on both the remote and the unit itself.

Would like to let everyone know that ever since I implimented Aydu'd fix my TVGOS has been working flawlessly for the past 3 weeks. I definitely think that he solved the problem. Previously I would get the "Rebuilding" message about 3 days after all 8 days were loaded. I definitely reccomend using this fix.

Hi guys -

Just another followup ... I had this happen to me again and my TVGOS reset procedure (on page 4 of this thread) worked again.

The only thing I'd add is that after the TVGOS reset (653...), you need to do a power off, then listen for the hard drive activity to stop (a minute at most) then PULL THE POWER CORD and let it power off for 10-15 seconds. Then plug the power back in and wait a minute or so before powering on. This forces a clean reboot of the machine, and only after I did that did I get the EPG process to continue.

A key thing to look for after a TVGOS reset is whether the clock says local time or GMT. After the TVGOS reset, mine still had local time. Only after the deep power cycle did the clock revert to GMT. And then it did the usual recovery ... learn local time, get channel lineup (which I need to then edit), get listings, etc. I did NOT lose my scheduled recordings and did NOT lose the recordings on the hard drive.

- Chris

.... which is the drawback of the Stop+On full reset: you lose your scheduled recordings.

Just another followup ... I had this happen to me again and my TVGOS reset procedure (on page 4 of this thread) worked again.
Do you really have only 9 OTA channels in your setup?

If so, and you're having "reset" problems, that might blow the theory that there is TVGOS "overload" due to too many channels to keep track of?

An interesting "head scratcher"...maybe???

Do you really have only 9 OTA channels in your setup?

If so, and you're having "reset" problems, that might blow the theory that there is TVGOS "overload" due to too many channels to keep track of?

An interesting "head scratcher"...maybe???

Not necessarily Wab. I also only have 9 (actually 7 I think) channels turned on in the TVGOS. But in my area the download includes OTA and quite a few (a whole lot) cable channels, even though I tell it no cable.

Everything but OTA gets turned off automatically in the TVGOS, I only need to turn off some out of town OTA signals when I set up, and rearrange the channels. In any event, the data stream that gets downloaded includes a whole boatload of channels, We just don't see them. I assume the data is thrown into a bit bucket somewhere, but it still has to be downloaded first.

I dont know if other locations are like that, and perhaps with the new choice you reported couple of week ago for broadcast only TVGOS, maybe that will change.

Thanks,
Rick


Rick

Would like to let everyone know that ever since I implimented Aydu'd fix my TVGOS has been working flawlessly for the past 3 weeks. I definitely think that he solved the problem. Previously I would get the "Rebuilding" message about 3 days after all 8 days were loaded. I definitely reccomend using this fix.

Glad to hear that someone else is finding success. I'm on 5 weeks of continuous EPG, without a rebuilding message.

Not necessarily Wab. I also only have 9 (actually 7 I think) channels turned on in the TVGOS. But in my area the download includes OTA and quite a few (a whole lot) cable channels, even though I tell it no cable.
I think the "Aydu theory" involves number of channels that are ON, not just downloaded. I believe virtually everyone gets lots of channels "downloaded."

He turned many downloaded channels that were ON to OFF...the ones he didn't care about. The theory is that reduced the processor workload and stabilized his TVGOS. (I'm sure Aydu will correct me if this mis-states his theory.)

Pitman,

When I bought the Pio, the other one I was looking at was the Toshiba. I have TVGOS on my Toshiba TV and it works flawlessly (for two yers now). I went with Pio because of price (Wal-mart has good return policy) and some concern over how base IRE level was handled by Toshiba.

I may recosider the Toshiba, or based on some of Rgazza reports, may look closer at Panasonics.

I'm absolutely convinced that TVGOS can be implemeted without problems, since my TVGOS on my television works fine.

Unfortunately, I think Pioneer has refused to accept that they have a problem and just want to pass the buck to Gemstar.

Rick

Absolutely. Well said. Pioneer puts the blame on the cable companies. The Toshiba XS34 I got when I took back the 533 works flawlessly. I am so glad I got rid of the Pioneer and went with the Toshiba. I would say that Pioneer make better receivers, and are not tops with DVRs.

It really sucks when people who buy Pioneers have to come up with these workarounds to kill EPG on their units. Why would I buy and keep a DVR that doesn't perform the way it is supposed to? TV Guide does work, and it works well on most systems. It's really a nice feature.

My DVR-633H-S last night detected a change in the "Channel Lineup", and asked me to select the correct lineup from a list that included

Comcast (3713)
Comcast (25781)
Comcast (25790)

Neither Comcast nor Pioneer know which I should select - apparently these numbers come from TVGOS. Pioneer is supposedly checking with TVGOS to see if they can get a description of these three. When I did the original setup (and the many following setups while I had EPG problems), these numbers were always followed by a short description.

I thought I'd check here and see if anyone here may know where we can get the interpretation of these channel lineup options.

Thanks.

P.S. I had EPG problems beginning in December. These cleared up in early January, and my 633 has been performing solidly since then. Comcast, of course, denied any responsibility the whole time. Last night I spoke with a Comcast tech support person that said they (Comcast) definitely had problems passing the signal during that time period, and any support person that read the daily bulletins knew about it.

My DVR-633H-S last night detected a change in the "Channel Lineup", and asked me to select the correct lineup from a list that included

Comcast (3713)
Comcast (25781)
Comcast (25790)
I've found that the 1st choice is always the one I subscribe to in my location. Failing all else, I'd select that one and see how the channels line up for your cable system. It's easy to go back to the system settings menu and select the "channels are wrong" selection and try each one.

I've found that the 1st choice is always the one I subscribe to in my location. Failing all else, I'd select that one and see how the channels line up for your cable system. It's easy to go back to the system settings menu and select the "channels are wrong" selection and try each one.

The first choice works. Previously it was the 2nd (last) choice that was the correct match. I suspect the differences are small, but you'd think they'd at least give you human-readable information!

The first choice works. Previously it was the 2nd (last) choice that was the correct match. I suspect the differences are small, but you'd think they'd at least give you human-readable information!
This forum is great for showing what others experience in diff. parts of the country. You get three cable system layouts with the same "name" making it diff. to pick. I get three diff. cable system "names," so it's easy for me.

I think the "Aydu theory" involves number of channels that are ON, not just downloaded. I believe virtually everyone gets lots of channels "downloaded."

He turned many downloaded channels that were ON to OFF...the ones he didn't care about. The theory is that reduced the processor workload and stabilized his TVGOS. (I'm sure Aydu will correct me if this mis-states his theory.)

Right! I suspect that too many channels overloads some internal buffer in the EPG software, causing it to lose the listings. Cutting back on the number of channels seems to have helped this, on my setup.

The other theory I have is that having two PBS channels on my cable system was giving the EPG system a problem. Turning one of them off, at the tv tuner, may have cut out the downloads possibly being available from two different channels.

I finally decided the bite the bullet and try this. I'm in Canada, and my TVGOS host channel showed as channel 9 (CTV). I have no idea if the listings are being carried on another channel as well, but I reasoned that I could find out by turning off channel 9 to see if another channel showed up in the TVGOS debug screen. So I: Reset the TVGOS, Reset the Pioneer 633 Did the Pioneer tuner setup by specifying "Cable" and "No Cable Box" (my cable feed goes into RF IN) Let the Pioneer scan all the channels Went into the "Home Menu", selected "Initial Setup", "Tuner", and then set channel 9 to "skip" Did the TVGOS setup. I didn't disable any channels within the TVGOS screens.
I left the machine off overnight, and when I looked at it the next day I found that it was still receiving data via channel 9! When I went back into the "Initial Setup", "Tuner" screen the "skip" option was grayed out for all the channels. It looks to me like the TVGOS is overriding the tuner channel selections somehow.

When I went back into the "Initial Setup", "Tuner" screen the "skip" option was grayed out for all the channels. It looks to me like the TVGOS is overriding the tuner channel selections somehow.Yeah, as soon as you set up TVGOS, the channel skip option is no longer available. Try turning off channel 9 in your TV Guide lineup and see what happens?

aydu, could you confirm how you turned off one of your PBS stations - was it in the Pioneer tuner setup or by deleting the channel from the TVGOS listings?

I'm going to leave mine as it is for the short term to see if it goes to "Rebuilding channel lineup" after receiving the 8th day of listings.

aydu, could you confirm how you turned off one of your PBS stations - was it in the Pioneer tuner setup or by deleting the channel from the TVGOS listings?

I'm going to leave mine as it is for the short term to see if it goes to "Rebuilding channel lineup" after receiving the 8th day of listings.

Sean,

I've turned off my Host Channel in both the Tuner and the TVGOS probabaly a couple of weeks ago - I'll check and find out when. It still shows up as the host channel.


Having said that of course, I just lost TVGOS again sometime today. (It was here this morning, but just went in this evening, and it's "rebuilding". So, latest run for my TVGOS was from Feb 18-mar 6. Still about 3 weeks.

Well, I"ll try the reset now and see if I get the new choice Wab mentioned.

Rick

. . . When I went back into the "Initial Setup", "Tuner" screen the "skip" option was grayed out for all the channels. It looks to me like the TVGOS is overriding the tuner channel selections somehow.
Mine does this too. After going thru TVG setup, I no longer have access to channel skip under the HomeMenu>INitial Setup>Tuner menu. I don't use TVG at all, but I was going to post precisely that question:

"How is it that posters here using TVG can turn channels on or off?"

But I just noticed that it was answered today:
Yeah, as soon as you set up TVGOS, the channel skip option is no longer available. Try turning off channel 9 in your TV Guide lineup and see what happens?

aydu, could you confirm how you turned off one of your PBS stations - was it in the Pioneer tuner setup or by deleting the channel from the TVGOS listings?
Sounds as if you're trying to do a Hostectomy. Although you've posted in that thread twice already, here's a link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=651494) to take you back there. Read the words between the asterisks...it's pretty simple, but I'll be glad to help if you have trouble?

aydu, could you confirm how you turned off one of your PBS stations - was it in the Pioneer tuner setup or by deleting the channel from the TVGOS listings?

I'm going to leave mine as it is for the short term to see if it goes to "Rebuilding channel lineup" after receiving the 8th day of listings.
I turned off the 2nd PBS channel in the tv tuner. Immediately after scanning for channels, I went back in and turned off the PBS station.

I then proceeded to set up the EPG system.

Mine does this too. After going thru TVG setup, I no longer have access to channel skip under the HomeMenu>INitial Setup>Tuner menu. I don't use TVG at all, but I was going to post precisely that question:

"How is it that posters here using TVG can turn channels on or off?"

But I just noticed that it was answered today:

I discovered that turning channels on and off in the Tuner Setup or in TVGOS accomplishes the same goal. Both methods turn channels on and off from the tuner. The only difference is that you can only turn channels on and off through the tuner setup prior to performing the initial setup for TVGOS. Once TVGOS is setup then you can only turn channels on and off through TVGOS.

The suggestion that Ayudu made was to reset TVGOS then reset the entire unit as if starting over from day 1. After the unit has scanned all the channels then go into the tuner setup and turn off any PBS stations that are not being used as host stations by TVGOS. Then perform the TVGOS setup. Once that is done go in and turn off ALL channels in TVGOS except for the one's you absolutely need. When I was done with this step I had only 10 channels turned on. I'm now on my 3rd week of continuous use without getting the rebuilding message. I have over the last couple of weeks turned on a few additional channels. When you turn on a channel there is initially no information available. Then by the next day all the programming is downloaded for the new channels. I also notice that the TVGOS seems to be more resposive from a performance perspective. When you activate the TVGOS it seems to display much faster than before.

I definitely reccomend trying this if you are still getting the rebuilding messages.

Sounds as if you're trying to do a Hostectomy. Although you've posted in that thread twice already, here's a link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=651494) to take you back there. Read the words between the asterisks...it's pretty simple, but I'll be glad to help if you have trouble?My intention was to follow Aydu's procedure because several people have tried it and reported success. I suspect that the crux of his procedure is turning off the guide information for unwanted channels. I haven't done that yet, I'm waiting to see if I get the "Rebuilding Channel Lineup" message after all 8 days have been loaded.

This is the first time I've reset the DVR or the TVGOS software since I purchased the machine in the fall. For anyone who's wondering, the resets wipe out any timed recording in the TVGOS schedule screen, but don't affect any titles already recorded to the hard drive.

Sean,

Having said that of course, I just lost TVGOS again sometime today. (It was here this morning, but just went in this evening, and it's "rebuilding". So, latest run for my TVGOS was from Feb 18-mar 6. Still about 3 weeks.

Well, I"ll try the reset now and see if I get the new choice Wab mentioned.

Rick

OK, Had a unusual occurence this time on reset. During my Pio reset, I tried doing auto time set and it wouln't set using my PBS station (which is the time sync channel I've used in past). I went ahead and set manually, at end of process you get a choice, and I decided to try redo and try other stations (I know other stations send out syncs). So I tried other and still no go, then I decided to try PBS again and this time it took it fine and set clock.

Finished procedure and reset the TVGOS setup info. By this time I was within 1 and half hours of rrecording some shows, so I went in and set timer manual time recording.

Recording went fine, but after they finished (around 11:00 pm), I noticed the the clocke was showing 8:05 (or there abouts). Didnt seem right so I check the TVGOS and clock was set for 8:00 AM. (I think it slipped back into GMT).

I went ahead and did another Pio reset. (along with re setting up TVGOS). I decided not to try turning off channel anywhere this time (at least not yet).

When my TVGOS downloads it contains my local OTA, some OTA from a few other not so local channles (60 miles away), and a whole boatload of basic cable channels that are already set to off by the TVGOS software (I say no cable during setup).

I will go in at some point and turn off the OTA that I don't recieve, and probably re-assign a station (there is one local channel I recieve, but there is no TVGOS data for it, but same network is on a station I don't recieve, so I just tell TVGOS to tune to my local station on that channel.

When I finish, I only have about 8 channels turned on in TVGOS. My cycle has typically been about three weeks of functioning before it locks up.

Rick

Wanted everyone to know that my TVGOS has been working fine for 4 weeks since implimenting Aydu's fix.

FYI: I had that problem with the GUI, where the tv guide screen was fuzzy and unavailable. I talked to Pioneer and they said to send it in. I sent it in on March 2 and received it back on March 20, by two day delivery. Not too bad a turnaround time, all things considered (like, they must have a ton of these sets being sent in for repair). They replaced the motherboard and the hard drive, apparently not settling for just reloading software. I'll give it a couple of days to load and see how it does.

I just bought this unit and the EPG light will not go off. Is this normal?

Yes, it's normal for a unit in which the TVG is working properly...and for one that's not. When working properly, there is a constant, low-level "connection" and four periods of data "bursts" when the TVG info is downloaded.

Unfortunately, if your EPG can't find or maintain a good source of data (for various reasons), it will continually try to do so, which also keeps the "EPG" lit on the display.

You should know in the morning whether your EPG/TVGOS system will work or not. If your TVG schedule (TV GUIDE button on remote) fills up Days 1, 2, and 8, it's working and should fill up the other 5 days in due time.

Keep the unit "off" overnight for best results.

Here's an update to my situation. I did a hard reset (Stop + On) on the recorder last night. followed by another full initial setup process and TVGOS setup. This morning, I had TV Guide program listings and entries in the 'channel display' area for the first time in about a week and a half. Also, there was actually a number (my local PBS station) in the Host channel reference in the diagnostic screens.

Of course, I lost all my scheduled recordings, too. Apparently, this is the true fix...I just wish there were a 'softer' one that didn't wipe out the future recording schedule.

Back in bidness.
Well, ladies and gentlemen...I got reliable TVGOS data for about three weeks after my hard reset on my 531. Guess what?? It's now gone again.

Yep -- no program listings or channel listings. I've checked the diagnostic screen and sure enough -- host channel is blank again. It seems that the core of this problem is that for some reason the host channel setting is lost and can only be re-acquired by a hard reset of the recorder -- which of course, makes you lose all your scheduled recordings.

What is also confusing about this, is that when you look at the scheduled listings (or do a search for programs) you can get results that show programs for 8 days out. It's as if the DVR 'knows' what the upcoming programs are even without the TVGOS listings. Bizarre.

Bottom line: Does anyone have any ideas regarding what would cause the host channel setting to just go blank??? And how to keep it from doing so??

I think this may be the root problem.

Well, ladies and gentlemen...I got reliable TVGOS data for about three weeks after my hard reset on my 531. Guess what?? It's now gone again.

Yep -- no program listings or channel listings. I've checked the diagnostic screen and sure enough -- host channel is blank again. It seems that the core of this problem is that for some reason the host channel setting is lost and can only be re-acquired by a hard reset of the recorder -- which of course, makes you lose all your scheduled recordings.

What is also confusing about this, is that when you look at the scheduled listings (or do a search for programs) you can get results that show programs for 8 days out. It's as if the DVR 'knows' what the upcoming programs are even without the TVGOS listings. Bizarre.

Bottom line: Does anyone have any ideas regarding what would cause the host channel setting to just go blank??? And how to keep it from doing so??

I think this may be the root problem.
Unfortunately, the PIO TVGOS system seems to be a "sensitive" puppy, unable to survive weak or interrupted signals, squirrels chewing on phone lines, etc.

It appears that the data is still there somewhere but it can't display it in the user menu...I once got 5 days of listing in ~7 hours after a soft reset described below, apparently because the data was there, just not able to be displayed???

You can try a simple thing that works for me if you want. Go to TVG > SETUP > Change system settings, select the third choice "No...." and rekey everything...don't accept anything already there, re-enter zip and toggle the dual-choice answers. It may work for you.

In any case, once you get TVGOS back, make sure you DO NOT have more than one PBS/PTV channel ON at the same time. If you do, turn those PBS/PTV channels that are NOT the Host Chan OFF and tune them to 0 (zero). This eliminates any "competing" or confusing TVGOS downloads from those other potential Host Channels. (I know, Panasonics don't work this way and have no problem with multiple Hosts!)

I've had a completely stable since doing my "fix" for over 7 conseutive weeks now. I think the problem with my 531 was either 1) too many channels for the memory of the recorder to handle or 2) two PBS stations in my cable lineup, which may have confused the 531 as to the right host station.

My fix is detailed in this thread and solved my problem 100%.

While the TVGOS signal may have it's own issues, it has proven to not be the culprit in the loss of information I was facing. Definitely something in the Pioneer recorder.

I've had a completely stable since doing my "fix" for over 7 conseutive weeks now. I think the problem with my 531 was either 1) too many channels for the memory of the recorder to handle or 2) two PBS stations in my cable lineup, which may have confused the 531 as to the right host station.

My fix is detailed in this thread and solved my problem 100%.

While the TVGOS signal may have it's own issues, it has proven to not be the culprit in the loss of information I was facing. Definitely something in the Pioneer recorder.

Aydu,

I only show about 9 channels in my setup (OTA only no cable). I also only have one PBS station to contend with, which is what the Pio uses for it's host, although my toshiba appears to get data from a different host channel (not PBS). I break down just about every 2-3 weeks.

I'm running right now, but yesterday I noticed that both 7 and 8 days out had no listings, so I suspect I'm getting close to a rebuilding message.

I thought I followed same appraoch as you, but I'm going to check it again. unfortunately, I tried turning off my one PBS staion hoping it would find the other TVGOS broadcast, but that didn't work, it continued to use the turned off PBS channel as the host.

At this point I'm just randomly stumbling around, I don't really expect to find a resolution.

I think you're right, this is in the Pio, and needs to be fixed by Pioneer, like that's gonna happen.

I do have to admit, the recording quality is good to excellent. I have started to have some problems on the last 7 minutes of a 2 hour DVD. around the 1:53 mark the DVD player I normally use to play these is starting to not be happy,( freezing , pausing , etc.). The last time it happened, I tried it in back in the Pio and it played ok. But this hasnt happend yet with other DVD recorder I have, my player seems to play them through ok. I suspect it is either the DVD (fmost likely culprit) or recording mechanism, not likely, but possible.

Thanks, for keeping us apprised of your status.
Rick


Thanks,
Rick

I have started to have some problems on the last 7 minutes of a 2 hour DVD. around the 1:53 mark the DVD player I normally use to play these is starting to not be happy,( freezing , pausing , etc.). The last time it happened, I tried it in back in the Pio and it played ok. But this hasnt happend yet with other DVD recorder I have, my player seems to play them through ok.It sounds like a marginal disk. If this is a recording you want to keep I highly recommend copying to a new disk (you can do this using the Pioneer's "backup disk" function).

Unfortunately, the PIO TVGOS system seems to be a "sensitive" puppy, unable to survive weak or interrupted signals, squirrels chewing on phone lines, etc.

It appears that the data is still there somewhere but it can't display it in the user menu...I once got 5 days of listing in ~7 hours after a soft reset described below, apparently because the data was there, just not able to be displayed???

You can try a simple thing that works for me if you want. Go to TVG > SETUP > Change system settings, select the third choice "No...." and rekey everything...don't accept anything already there, re-enter zip and toggle the dual-choice answers. It may work for you.

In any case, once you get TVGOS back, make sure you DO NOT have more than one PBS/PTV channel ON at the same time. If you do, turn those PBS/PTV channels that are NOT the Host Chan OFF and tune them to 0 (zero). This eliminates any "competing" or confusing TVGOS downloads from those other potential Host Channels. (I know, Panasonics don't work this way and have no problem with multiple Hosts!)
Yes, I've gone back through the soft reset procedure and rekeyed or toggled all entry fields...still no luck. Had it turned completely off last night after the reset and still had a blank host channel in the diagnostic screen this morning.

I have Time-warner 'extended, analog cable' and so have only one PBS channel anyway. All I can figure out is that if the number of channels does affect the memory then whenever I get full-function back (I'm just trying to avoid another 'hard reset' because losing all my scheduled recordings is very frustrating), I'll purge a lot of them. I currently receive (by default) about 65 channels.

It sounds like a marginal disk. If this is a recording you want to keep I highly recommend copying to a new disk (you can do this using the Pioneer's "backup disk" function).

I suspect that you're right. But no, they aren't material I plan to save, I mainly use the Pio like a VCR to watch things when I want rather than when networks want. I've put quite a few cycles on -RW DVD's.

Thanks,
Rick

I, too, had been having problems maintaining TVGOS listings for an extended period of time. I read aydu's "fix", and decided to try it. I did a soft reset and re-entered my setup info (I selected my own zip code, selected "yes" for cable, & "no" for cable box. I turned the recorder off overnight. When I got home from work the following day, I turned on the unit & was asked to select my cable company from the listings provided. I selected the second Comcast listing. After that, I believe I had the first, second & eighth day out worth of listings. I immediately went into the "channel edit" screen & turned off the other two PBS channels that I suspected may have been interfering with the EPG downloads. I have three PBS channels, but only one on my cable system provides data. I knew this because I went to the debug screen and saw that PBS channel 17 was my host channel. I made sure to leave that channel on in the "channel edit" screen. I then went in and "turned off" all of the channels that I knew I wouldn't want EPG data from (i.e. Home Shopping Network, Spanish language channels, etc.). I turned them off & tuned them to channel 1 because I know that channel 1 is a "tunable" channel which contains no picture or data on the cable in my area. After I was done, I ended up with about 17 "active channels". I later turned the unit off overnight, and the next day, had two more days worth of listings on the 17 channels that I had active. Over the next several days, the listings eventually filled out all 8 days, and I have had full listings for over 4 weeks now. I waited until I had 8 days worth of listings for about 3 days consecutively before I began to go back into the channel edit screen and "activate" more channels. I "turned on" a new channel every 2 days and still haven't lost any data or had any "rebuilding" screens. Like others have stated here previously, I believe that the culprit may have been either "competing" host channels, or having too many channels active at first, which may have not given the machine the chance to properly download EPG data for all of the active channels. I don't claim to be an expert on the Pioneer 633. Sorry for the long post, but this is my first posting on here, and I just thought I would put this out there for others who may be having problems maintaining guide listings..

I, too, had been having problems maintaining TVGOS listings for an extended period of time. I read aydu's "fix", and decided to try it. I did a soft reset and re-entered my setup info (I selected my own zip code, selected "yes" for cable, & "no" for cable box. I turned the recorder off overnight. When I got home from work the following day, I turned on the unit & was asked to select my cable company from the listings provided. I selected the second Comcast listing. After that, I believe I had the first, second & eighth day out worth of listings. I immediately went into the "channel edit" screen & turned off the other two PBS channels that I suspected may have been interfering with the EPG downloads. I have three PBS channels, but only one on my cable system provides data. I knew this because I went to the debug screen and saw that PBS channel 17 was my host channel. I made sure to leave that channel on in the "channel edit" screen. I then went in and "turned off" all of the channels that I knew I wouldn't want EPG data from (i.e. Home Shopping Network, Spanish language channels, etc.). I turned them off & tuned them to channel 1 because I know that channel 1 is a "tunable" channel which contains no picture or data on the cable in my area. After I was done, I ended up with about 17 "active channels". I later turned the unit off overnight, and the next day, had two more days worth of listings on the 17 channels that I had active. Over the next several days, the listings eventually filled out all 8 days, and I have had full listings for over 4 weeks now. I waited until I had 8 days worth of listings for about 3 days consecutively before I began to go back into the channel edit screen and "activate" more channels. I "turned on" a new channel every 2 days and still haven't lost any data or had any "rebuilding" screens. Like others have stated here previously, I believe that the culprit may have been either "competing" host channels, or having too many channels active at first, which may have not given the machine the chance to properly download EPG data for all of the active channels. I don't claim to be an expert on the Pioneer 633. Sorry for the long post, but this is my first posting on here, and I just thought I would put this out there for others who may be having problems maintaining guide listings..

Thanks for info. sounds like more folks are having luck with this.

I've decided to try something completely different. My setup is OTA antenna to RF IN. Dish box to L1. As you all know, DISh is not compatible with TVGOS signal, I know that, no big deal, I download OTA via PBS host channel. It gives me my OTA channels in TVGOS, and I can set manual recordings for L1.

I typically lose my TVOGS data every 3 weeks or so. (only have about 7-9 stations active, still only lasts 3 weeks). This time, I've decided to say I have a cable box on L1, OTA on RF1. When given the choice to choose cable I picked one. Same for the cable box. Few hours later, I was give the channel listing, I went in and selcted only my OTA channels, and a few of the cable channels that had schedules matching my DISH line-up. I'm testing now to see if I can schedule using the guide, realizing that I'll have to manually set the DISH reciever channel (since the IR blaster isn't going to change anything on the reciever).

I'll let folks know what happens.

Rick

Over the next several days, the listings eventually filled out all 8 days, and I have had full listings for over 4 weeks now.


Please keep us updated by leaving another post in a couple of weeks (or even every couple of weeks if you are still so lucky.

My PIO 531 worked new out of the box for 3 or 4 months before I started having problems last November. I get about 2 to 3 weeks between 'resets'. I have only one PBS channel for my area.

The last couple of weeks I've been not albe to keep listing data for days 3, 4, 5 and 6. Each night days 1, 2, 7, and 8 refresh (which means day 6's listing drop out).

My setup is OTA antenna to RF IN.
In addition to multiple PBS channels, the Pio TVGOS is sensitive to signal-strength. With your OTA setup, you might benefit from an amp or amplified splitter to increase your OTA signal strength (if you don't have one already).

One other person had a weak signal with his OTA antenna, but got good results when he replaced the antenna and increased his signal strength. Another person had poor results until he found a bad cable from the feed line and replaced it. I had TVGOS performance similar to yours until I found out my PBS Host station had an antenna fire and was operating at half power...that cleared up as soon as I replaced that station with another in my Host Channel slot.

Here's an update on my progress with Adyu's method.

Actually, I haven't made any progress at all... I competely reset my machine (both the TVGOS and the general reset) back on March 4. Adyu had reported that his machine consistently lost TVGOS listings after it had downloaded all 8 days of listings, so before I removed or disabled channels I decided I'd wait to see how long it took for the listings to start disappearing. By doing this I'd know when to expect a TVGOS failure and have some confidence that I was getting somewhere if it stayed stable for longer than that.

Well, it's been over 3 weeks since my resets, and I haven't had any TVGOS problems even though I didn't alter my channel settings at all. Well, this past weekend my machine didn't get listings updates, but that seems to have been a delivery problem on the part of CTV (local host station here in Vancouver). The guide is still working just fine and new guide info started coming in today (Monday).

I'm going to just leave it running like this until something happens, at which time I'll do another reset and disable the channels I don't want. Of course, since I've reported that it's working OK the chances of a failure are now greatly increased. :)

In addition to multiple PBS channels, the Pio TVGOS is sensitive to signal-strength. With your OTA setup, you might benefit from an amp or amplified splitter to increase your OTA signal strength (if you don't have one already).

One other person had a weak signal with his OTA antenna, but got good results when he replaced the antenna and increased his signal strength. Another person had poor results until he found a bad cable from the feed line and replaced it. I had TVGOS performance similar to yours until I found out my PBS Host station had an antenna fire and was operating at half power...that cleared up as soon as I replaced that station with another in my Host Channel slot.

Thanks WAB, my signal strength should be pretty good based on results I have with digital signal meter.

I've treid cable switching and other most other suggestions floating around here.


Rick

Here's an update on my progress with Adyu's method.

Actually, I haven't made any progress at all... I competely reset my machine (both the TVGOS and the general reset) back on March 4. Adyu had reported that his machine consistently lost TVGOS listings after it had downloaded all 8 days of listings, so before I removed or disabled channels I decided I'd wait to see how long it took for the listings to start disappearing. By doing this I'd know when to expect a TVGOS failure and have some confidence that I was getting somewhere if it stayed stable for longer than that.

Well, it's been over 3 weeks since my resets, and I haven't had any TVGOS problems even though I didn't alter my channel settings at all. Well, this past weekend my machine didn't get listings updates, but that seems to have been a delivery problem on the part of CTV (local host station here in Vancouver). The guide is still working just fine and new guide info started coming in today (Monday).

I'm going to just leave it running like this until something happens, at which time I'll do another reset and disable the channels I don't want. Of course, since I've reported that it's working OK the chances of a failure are now greatly increased. :)

Sean,

I'm a few hundred miles south of you in Portland. But curioulsy, most of my listings also starting failing over the weekend as well. Started last Friday. I decied to do a soft reset (so I could keep scheduled shows), and also mess with some other, off the wall ideas I have to get Satellite guide data ( in a way).

Rick

My system had been running flawlessly since I implemented the "aydu fix" about 6 weeks ago. On Sunday evening I suddenly received the "rebuilding" message. I let it go for about a day and it didn't fix itself. Last night I executed the TVGOS reset before going to bed. This moringing the guide was up and running again but I will have to wait a few days for it to be completely downloaded. I still believe the "aydu fix" is the best solution so far. Prior to using it I consistantly received the rebuilding message imediately after all 8 days were loaded. Using the fix I went almost 8 weeks with stability.

... This time, I've decided to say I have a cable box on L1, OTA on RF1. When given the choice to choose cable I picked one. Same for the cable box. Few hours later, I was give the channel listing, I went in and selcted only my OTA channels, and a few of the cable channels that had schedules matching my DISH line-up. I'm testing now to see if I can schedule using the guide, realizing that I'll have to manually set the DISH reciever channel (since the IR blaster isn't going to change anything on the reciever).

I'll let folks know what happens.

Rick

Update:

Have some of the "psuedo" dish channels mapped now. It was a little bit of trial and error to find which cable line-up and which cable channel matched the schedule for the dish channel. I decided to use Sci Fi for test. I tuned on both cable channel Sci Fi's. I turned them on, then assigned one of the my Dish channel number (just as a reminder to me) found out you have to assign a number, other Sci Fi channel I gave dummy number to. When scheudle data was downloaded, I compared to the Dish Guide to find out which, if any matched. One did.

I turned off the incorrect Cable Channel, renumbered the Cable Scifi to my Dish channel number. Tonight I went into guide, and used guide to schedule the Dark Kingdom recording. I had to rember to set the Dish Reciever to correct channel manually, since the IR blaster doesnt work.

At correct time. the recorder started recording, It ended at correct time. I checked the hard disk, the recording was correct and it grabbed show name from the guide, so I don't have to edit the title now. This method is marginally easier than setting up a manual recording, dont have to enter start and end times, dont have to edit titles in after the fact.

My next experiments will be to see if I can find the correct IR code that will send to Dish Reciever. Looks like a tedius trial and error chore. I should get a life, especially since I know I'll lose this data in about three weeks when the TVGOS goes out to lunch again.

Rick

I'm a few hundred miles south of you in Portland. But curioulsy, most of my listings also starting failing over the weekend as well. Started last Friday. I decied to do a soft reset (so I could keep scheduled shows), and also mess with some other, off the wall ideas I have to get Satellite guide data ( in a way).Interesting. I wonder if there was some sort of problem at Gemstar...

Here is a post from CNET that has a Pioneer letter explaining why there were no Pio 533/633 units available anywhere...guess what the reason is: TVGOS! Check it out.

Pio 533/633 pulled from shelves (http://reviews.cnet.com/Pioneer_DVR_533H_S/4869-9141_7-31473259.html?messageSiteID=7&messageID=1404139&cval=1404139;1830889&ctype=msgid;cmsgid&commentMessageID=1830889)

Here is a post from CNET that has a Pioneer letter explaining why there were no Pio 533/633 units available anywhere...guess what the reason is: TVGOS! Check it out.

Pio 533/633 pulled from shelves (http://reviews.cnet.com/Pioneer_DVR_533H_S/4869-9141_7-31473259.html?messageSiteID=7&messageID=1404139&cval=1404139;1830889&ctype=msgid;cmsgid&commentMessageID=1830889)

Thanks for the link. I noticed that Pioneer DVRs were not the only to disappear from the shelves. My locals BB and CC don't have anything with HDD and Walmart/Sams are selling those unknown brands. I don't see the Panasonic models, for example.

Sergio

Actually, that is refreshing to read...... As long as Pioneer is finally admitting that EPG is so damn problematic, the chances are better that the new line will hopefully be improved. Or, perhaps a definite and easy way to disable the EPG without all these ridiculous workarounds. Utter stupidity to have to wrack your brains to try and work around this damn EPG....
So if Pioneer has indeed finally recognized this big EPG nightmare, that is a bit more promising for this awaited new line coming out.... Time will tell, I guess.....

I'm going to just leave it running like this until something happens, at which time I'll do another reset and disable the channels I don't want. Of course, since I've reported that it's working OK the chances of a failure are now greatly increased. :)Sure enough, got the "rebuilding channel lineup" message today. I'll try another reset and delete all but the essential channels next, but I won't be able to get around to it for a few days yet...

Actually, that is refreshing to read...... As long as Pioneer is finally admitting that EPG is so damn problematic, the chances are better that the new line will hopefully be improved.

I had problems with my 633 last week (not the first time, although the longest outage was ComCast's fault). I spoke with a manager who said their engineering department is working on this problem. As soon as a fix is available, it will automatically be downloaded to the players. So I have hopes of having a stable DVR soon (within months, anyway).

Other than the TVGOS problems, I think the features of my 633 are great.

Gary

Sure enough, got the "rebuilding channel lineup" message today. I'll try another reset and delete all but the essential channels next, but I won't be able to get around to it for a few days yet...

LOL, yeah, as soon as i post here, i know I'm gonna get clobbered with the rebuilding message.

My experiment with aliasing my sattelite feed to a cable company guide is working fine so far. It's a bit tedius moving aruond in the channel editing screen. But it is nice to not have to enter start and end times or edit in the title name.

Rick

After weeks of experimentation trying to get TVGOS from Comcast in Atlanta, I finally decided it was worth my time to call Comcast and ask them straight up if they carried the TVGOS information. The tech support representative said:

"No, we do not support that because we have our own program guide in our cable boxes".

So there we have it: Comcast does not carry the TVGOS data in Atlanta, even though the local PBS broadcast *does* contain the TVGOS data. Hard to believe, but the evidence supports it. There must be a bunch of DVD recorders being returned from the Atlanta area because of this.

Thanks,
- Mike

After weeks of experimentation trying to get TVGOS from Comcast in Atlanta, I finally decided it was worth my time to call Comcast and ask them straight up if they carried the TVGOS information. The tech support representative said:

"No, we do not support that because we have our own program guide in our cable boxes".

So there we have it: Comcast does not carry the TVGOS data in Atlanta, even though the local PBS broadcast *does* contain the TVGOS data. Hard to believe, but the evidence supports it. There must be a bunch of DVD recorders being returned from the Atlanta area because of this.

Thanks,
- Mike

Does anyone know if Comcast in Seattle carries the TVGOS data? Anyone know the host channel in Seattle?

Thanks

EPGless in Seattle

If you have a Pio unit, your Host Channels should be:

PBS, KCTS OTA Ch. 9 (Analog)

PBS, KCTS OTA Ch. 41 (Digital)

Both KCTS towers are located at 18th E & E. Madison.

You should probably call Comcast first and see if they also "do not support" TVGOS so you don't waste a lot of time and effort.

If you subscribe to an all-digital TV service (?)...or even if you don't...you can try an easy experiment:
See if you can find another PBS station way down your channel list, in the OFF (greyed-out section), that also says KCTS. Turn that one ON and tune it to your Comcast PBS channel, then turn the original PBS channel OFF and tune it to 0 (zero).

If you have a Pio unit, your Host Channels should be:

PBS, KCTS OTA Ch. 9 (Analog)

PBS, KCTS OTA Ch. 41 (Digital)

Both KCTS towers are located at 18th E & E. Madison.


Thank you for your informational reply. I tried to download the EPG last night and it actually worked. I never got it to work before after numerious tries and even the clock switch time zones by 8 hours, so I disabled the EPG last fall.

The host channel is confirmed to be channel 9. There is another PBS station in Tacoma on channel 28.

Thanks!

Pioneer DVR 531-H

Thanks to all here.

I purchased a Pioneer 633 in October, worked fine till 3rd wk of December.The TVGOS reset worked until last week. Took me till today to refind this forum and topic.

Before my problems I ordered another 633 for my son for xmas. He has been problem free so far, living at my house till a month ago when he moved to another house in same local small cable company.


Hoping my second reset will work as long as the last one.

Does anyone know if Comcast in Seattle carries the TVGOS data? Anyone know the host channel in Seattle?

Comcast in Edmonds does. I've had it (TVGOS) for two weeks now - but my unit spends a LOT of time getting the info apparently, since my hard drive seems to run 24/7. I didn't do anything special with mine to set it up, I just followed the onscreen instructions. One thing - after I put in my zip code (98020), it gave me three numerical choices of service, and being that I didnt have the foggiest idea which mine was, I just selected the first one under the assumption that my basic cable service would likely be listed first, and Digital being the later ones.

Thank you for your informational reply. I tried to download the EPG last night and it actually worked. I never got it to work before after numerious tries and even the clock switch time zones by 8 hours, so I disabled the EPG last fall.
Pioneer DVR 531-H

Well I spoke to soon maybe. It has been in "rebuilding channel lineup mode" since Sunday evening. No Listings.

Comcast in Edmonds does. I've had it (TVGOS) for two weeks now - but my unit spends a LOT of time getting the info apparently, since my hard drive seems to run 24/7. I didn't do anything special with mine to set it up, I just followed the onscreen instructions. One thing - after I put in my zip code (98020), it gave me three numerical choices of service, and being that I didnt have the foggiest idea which mine was, I just selected the first one under the assumption that my basic cable service would likely be listed first, and Digital being the later ones.

Hah. I got four for the Renton Area. I chose the third listing. You can go back and switch if turns out incorrect. I not using the cable box with it so mine are all analog.

Well I spoke to soon maybe. It has been in "rebuilding channel lineup mode" since Sunday evening. No Listings.

And now its working....

And now its working....

Did you do the code reset, or did it come back on its own? I don't even wait anymore I just enter the code in at the end of my tv watching session. BTW, my Pio 531 also went into rebuilding mode monday nite or during the day tuesday.

It came back on its own.

Here is a post from CNET that has a Pioneer letter explaining why there were no Pio 533/633 units available anywhere...guess what the reason is: TVGOS! Check it out.


That's great that they are finally doing something about it, but it doesn't help any of us that already own it. This is one release that never should have happened. The noise alone from the EPG has kept me from ever using it, which is very disappointing as I would have liked to.

:( Sadly, I took back my Pioneer 633 today. It is a really great machine, except for the TVGOS problem. It blinked out on me for the third time last night, giving me the 24-hour rebuilding message.

The first time it happened, about five days after I got it, some six weeks ago, I thought OK, despite hoping I wouldn't be a victim of all I had read about it, this was just bad luck. I reset the machine and it started rebuilding again. It would go well for 3-5 days, then I'd get no listings for 1-3 days, then it would come back. After a couple of weeks of this, I did a soft reset with the "XI" code, and it started building things up again, day by day. Last weekend, I finally got to within one day of a fully populated guide, but I lost everything again for the third time. Three strikes, you're out. Back it went. :(

At the Pioneer headquarters in Minato-ku, Tokyo, they must be saying, "Those technically inept North Americans! :mad: The one aspect of this otherwise fine made-in-Japan machine we entrust them with, and they can't get it to work properly." Now they've had to pull them from the shelves.

It defeats the purpose of having a DVR if you have to record all your programs simultaneously on a good old VCR in case the DVR doesn't. :rolleyes:

Once this bug is worked out, I'll be the first in line to to buy this otherwise excellent machine once again. :)

General request to everyone on this forum: If you find out at any time that Pioneer has finally made a firmware/software update available for the TVGOS problems plaguing our 531/533/633s, please post that news here...and preferably the direct link if Pioneer actually makes it available on their website. Thanks.

Don't hold your breath waiting for a TVGOS software update from Pioneer. If it is true that they have withdrawn the 5XX and 6XX recorders from the market because of TVGOS issues, they have given up on fixing the TVGOS problems with the current DVD recorders.

Hold out hope for the 2006 models...

After weeks of experimentation trying to get TVGOS from Comcast in Atlanta, I finally decided it was worth my time to call Comcast and ask them straight up if they carried the TVGOS information. The tech support representative said:

"No, we do not support that because we have our own program guide in our cable boxes".

So there we have it: Comcast does not carry the TVGOS data in Atlanta, even though the local PBS broadcast *does* contain the TVGOS data. Hard to believe, but the evidence supports it. There must be a bunch of DVD recorders being returned from the Atlanta area because of this.

Thanks,
- Mike

Mike,

I just found your post here, had not been following this thread in some time. Interesting that Comcast said that; from my observation, I think they are sending out at least some data.

I have the Sony 715 DVR not the Pioneer and have never had any TVGOS issues. Where we live in metro-Atl, I use AcworthCablenet. But, after about 24 hrs after initial startup, all the Comcast cable options came up as choices. I selected Comcast's lineup initially, since Acworth's lineup had not yet completely downloaded and the channel listings were all there. About a week ago with the storms, we had a power shutdown which dumped all my TVGOS listings, requiring starting over, and again, all the Comcast options were listed, including the newer digital lineups. Unless I'm missing something, could this may be more related to the general Pio problem?

ss9001

I purchased my DVR-633H in January and have had the problems described here roughly every 3 to 4 weeks since. I just decided to browse this forum to see if I was unique... sadly I'm not. But after spending a few hours reading this thread, I note a few common questions that I may be able to help with. I have been a chief engineer for a PBS station for 25 years, so that puts me in a position to answer those questions. This is my first post to AVS Forum, so bare with me.

First, some history. Many years ago PBS recognized the value of the largely unused VBI (Vertical Blanking Interval). PBS can be received by more Americans than any other network. And the technology already existed to deliver low bandwidth data via the VBI. And as others have mentioned, PBS stations can always use some extra money! So... PBS created an organization known as National Datacast Inc (NDI) to market this bandwidth to organizations interested in a national distribution system. Individual PBS stations signed a contract with NDI making a certain number of VBI lines available to this project. In turn, NDI distributed the profits of this venture to them. In some markets, there is more than one PBS station widely available. In such cases, you can't make the assumption that NDI has a contract with each of these stations. And in any event, signing the contract was a voluntary act upon the part of the station. In a few cases, for reasons of their own, stations didn't choose to participate.

The first customer of interest here was Starsight. They provided an EPG to users who purchased hardware that supported it. The business model was based upon users paying for a subscription. For whatever reasons, this venture never became popular with the public (or equipment vendors). Meanwhile, there was a competing product, Guide+, that NEVER had anything to do with PBS. BUt it resulted in much confusion with the public, retailers, cable companies, etc.

Then TVGuide/Gemstar purchased Starsight... and basically killed it, thus ending the confusion between the competing products. And they contracted with NDI to deliver the TVGuide product. Unlike Starsight, the business model was based upon license fees from equipment vendors and as "free" to the consumers (if you don't count the increased cost of your DVR, etc). Also unlike Starsight, Gemstar contracted with other stations in addition to PBS. In my community, they consider PBS to be the "primary" provider, and the local ABC affiliate is the secondary provider. I have no idea if anything in the data makes this destinction, but I suspect it does.

On to how it is implemented. PBS/NDI's only involvement is in the administration of the contract, arranging for equipment to be sent to the PBS stations, etc. NO EPG DATA comes from PBS. Each PBS station that chooses to be part of this endeavor receives the equipment necessary to provide the service. A phone line is attached to the equipment and each day it gets a call from Gemstar and the EPG data is delivered. The box has a video input jack that the broadcast station is SUPPOSED to connect to a receiver (demodulator) output. That allows the box to monitor what is being broadcast, and let the provider (Gemstar these days) know if there is a problem. In short... the signal IS being monitored 24/7. I have personally received a call from NDI (who got a call from Gemstar) asking if we had a problem. "My" Gemstar box has worked without any issues. I think MAYBE there was ONE time when I had to reboot it. Note that there is no way for Gemstar to know if the broadcaster connected an off-air video signal... or just a sample of video taken PRIOR to delivery to the transmitter. In the latter case, Gemstar wouldn't know if the transmitter was off the air or if there was some other difficulty that prevented it being broadcast.

One final issue... time signals. Many years ago, PBS worked out a deal with an organization (I believe it was the Consumer Electronics Association) to broadcast a time-of-day signal. Basically they paid for the hardware to be installed at PBS stations which agreed as a public service. It is the responsibility of those stations to make sure the time is accurate. The equipment includes the ability to synchronize its time with time sources commonly available in broadcast stations, so it shouldn’t be a problem. Because the time-of-day signal uses a protocol quite similar to closed captions (and is in similar area of VBI), if you can receive reliable closed captions, you should almost certainly receive the time-of-day signal. This is SEPERATE from the TVGuide data. I have no idea if there is also time data sent along with the TVGuide data... if so, the PBS stations have no control over that.

On to possible transmission problems. One... the transmitter can be off the air for various reasons... including LONG power outages (over a day) to mountain top sites. If Gemstar has a secondary source in your market, in theory, you should still get your EPG.
Another issue is that a growing number of cable companies are using DTV receivers to receive the station's digital signal, then feeding that to an analog modulator to feed their analog customers. The upside is the customers may get better picture and sound quality. The downside is that some auxiliary services such as SAP and TVGuide get lost. In my market, as soon as the cable company figured out this problem, they decided to go back to using an analog receiver for ONE of the two TVGuide sources. The upside is that their customers still get TVGuide. The downside... there is no longer redundancy.

IF a cable company is using an OLD DTV receiver (or mis-configured) to receive a DTV broadcast and converts it to analog for their viewers, BOTH the captions and the time-of-day data may be lost. This is because early DTV receivers didn’t provide ANY VBI data on their composite video outputs. By law, they now have to.

There is NO provision in the DTV standards for passing VBI data other than closed captions, so it is IMPOSSIBLE for a broadcaster or DTV receiver manufacturer to pass TVGuide data for cable customers in the scenario described above. There are some convoluted technical solutions to that, but they are expensive. I don't know if those solutions have been implemented anywhere.

I hope this long message provides some clarity on some of the issues raised in this forum.

Welcome to the Forums spinmud. Great information.

Thanks spinmud, that's very interesting information. It's great to be able to hear what's really going on from folks in the industry. Your description of the relationships between the various players and responsibilities in the delivery of EPG data makes a perfect sense.

It's a real pity that the designers of the DTV standards and equipment didn't have the foresight to provide for translating generic analogue VBI data into a data stream in the DTV signal with corresponding decoding by a DTV receiver with analogue outputs. The inclusion of closed captioning was fairly obvious, but expanding the capability to include all VBI data (even if it was just in it's raw bit form) would have been sensible, IMHO.

It will be very interesting to see what happens to program guide services during the analogue to digital transition (and by "interesting" I'm thinking of the famous Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times" ;)). It wouldn't surprise me if, as DTV decoders and content management start to require Internet connections, these types of information services migrate to the Internet. I'd prefer my equipment not to be Internet-dependent, but I can see it happening.

I'm sure that transmission problems with the EPG information are common. Pioneer removing their current lineup from the market also shows that they had a problem implementing the EPG, even with a good reliable signal being received.

I have gotten my EPG working (details in this thread) so for my particular situation, the EPG signal transmission by my local PBS station was a non issue. They have been 100% reliable.

Having a fully loaded EPG for over 2 months really shows the benefit of this system. I find I am using it for virtually all my recordings. It works consistently and reliably.

It is certainly nice to be in a stable mode with this. The EPG implementation was the only part of the Pioneer recorder that I was not delighted with. All the other features were excellent.

Based on Pioneer's response to this issue, and the fact that they have been subject to class action lawsuits on some of their other DVD related products, has turned me off as a future consumer for their products.

No support - no buy. The support I have gotten from Pioneer on this issue has been in the "no support" category.

This last Saturday, 4/22, I lost TVGOS around mid-morning. What's strange is that I lost TVGOS on both my Pio 531 (pretty commonplace occurence), but I also lost it on my Toshiba TV (very very rare). To top it off, these two units use two different host channels for the TVGOS data.

I'm reloading now as usual. ANother strnge tidbit, on the Pio, after I did a siimple reset of TVGOS (I wanted to save my scheduled recordings), I went to chagne the tuner channel to check something, and I couldnt even get the tuner to change channels. I unplugged, and still locked on one channel. I ended up doing a complete reset.

Rick

Had to do a TVGOS reset last Sunday after it was stuck in rebuilding mode for the last two weeks. Interesting enough, it worked and when it prompted me to choose a channel lineup, it actually had a description for each line up number instead of just listing meaningless list numbers. So something has changed.

Hey kids, I've got some good news on this problem.

Short story: do a TVGOS reset with the code below.

Long story:

I'd been continuing to have this problem -- the listings would work for a few days at a time, but most of the time they weren't working. The data was still visible by searching for particular programs, and the regular recordings were still happening, so the data was coming in, it just wasn't displaying the listings. And thus I couldn't easily program new recordings, and certainly couldn't just browse the EPG listings.

The Pioneer guy kept calling me back once a week or so to see if my problem was still existing, and I assured him that it was, so he was leaning towards doing an RMA on my unit. I don't want the hassle of losing the use of the unit, and having to dump the recorded shows from HDD to DVD. Further, I think the problem probably has something to do with my particular environment (OTA lineup, VBI signal quality, disc use) that is causing the machine to go nuts, so they probably would have found no problem in the factory anyway. So I rejected the RMA idea.

Two weeks ago he called me with a procedure to try. After you enter the debug code and get to the first grey screen, you then type in 653274147 which is some sort of TVGOS reset; after it comes back you repeat the TVGOS setup (zip code and RF input).

It seems to reset just the listings data -- the channel lineup and recording settings persisted. About 2 days later I had listings building up again. Of course, the reset had indeed wiped out the 8-day accumulation of listings and so it only had the 1-2-8 days at first, but over the next week it all built up again. As long as you do this reset when you're in a period of 2 days of no programmed recordings, I don't think you'll miss any recordings.

It's now two weeks later, and the unit is still working just fine. I haven't lost the listings once since the reset, which is the longest I've gone since my first incident in September. Maybe it'll screw up again soon, but now I think we've got a procedure to at least get it back in a couple days. In my case, I just do the reset over the weekend when I have no regular recordings.

Looking at the debug screens, the only odd thing I see is that lots of the packet counters are sometimes zero'd out, including the Pass / Fail counters and lots of the VBIstats numbers, which are usually very much non-zero. I do see the download history and everything else looks normal, just lots of counters remain at zero.

If it hits again, I'll try this TVGOS reset and report here on the results. For now I'm happy with the unit again.


Does this work with non-Pioneer TVGOS's?

Great, no TVGOS for 2 weeks. Anyone else in the Toronto area having problems. I have done 2 hard resets with no lucks. Now my clock has stopped keeping time. This morning it was out by 5 hours, almost like it has no clue what time zone it's in.

Sounds as if you've "lost" your Host Channel. Try the code to see if your unit shows a "Host Chan."

Go to TVG > SETUP > Change system settings (highlight only, do not press Enter) > Enter this # 753159852 (an "X" "I" pattern) > Right arrow to next grey screen >
Find "Host Chan" in left column and see what #s are at right. The last whole # will be your Host Channel, but it's probably blank for you. Press TVG button to exit.

If blank, you can only reset TVG (by continuing after finding Host Chan in 2nd grey screen and entering 653274147). Turn off unit then on again and reset your TVG settings, re-entering zip code and toggling dual-choices...don't accept what's already there.

If that doesn't get some action by next day, you'll have to call your probable Host Chan station (PBS or Canadian Bdcast?) and see if their Norpak Encoder/Inserter is working for TVGOS.

If not blank, call the station for the channel shown and ask the same question.

Sounds as if you've "lost" your Host Channel. Try the code to see if your unit shows a "Host Chan."

Go to TVG > SETUP > Change system settings (highlight only, do not press Enter) > Enter this # 753159852 (an "X" "I" pattern) > Right arrow to next grey screen >
Find "Host Chan" in left column and see what #s are at right. The last whole # will be your Host Channel, but it's probably blank for you. Press TVG button to exit.

If blank, you can only reset TVG (by continuing after finding Host Chan in 2nd grey screen and entering 653274147). Turn off unit then on again and reset your TVG settings, re-entering zip code and toggling dual-choices...don't accept what's already there.

If that doesn't get some action by next day, you'll have to call your probable Host Chan station (PBS or Canadian Bdcast?) and see if their Norpak Encoder/Inserter is working for TVGOS.

If not blank, call the station for the channel shown and ask the same question.

Host channel is blank. I have tried the reset code and toggled all. I have tried 2 hard resets of the unit. Nothing.
Pioneer have been their usual help, nothing.
I could live without the TVG if the clock would work properly. I have reset it manually and automatically with the same results. It seems to lose the correct time zone and move ahead 5 hours. Any thoughts on what is causing it to screw up?
Thanks.

Host channel is blank. I have tried the reset code and toggled all. I have tried 2 hard resets of the unit. Nothing.
Pioneer have been their usual help, nothing.
I could live without the TVG if the clock would work properly. I have reset it manually and automatically with the same results. It seems to lose the correct time zone and move ahead 5 hours. Any thoughts on what is causing it to screw up?
If you did the full double-code TVG reset...(if not, do it now)...you'll have to wait overnight with unit off to see if your Host Chan re-appears and everything is OK. Check again in the a.m.

I suspect your TVG info and clock are probably provided by the same Host Chan. If no Host Chan in the a.m., your only hope is that your Host Chan's encoder broke or got unplugged. Hopefully, you know what channel/station was your Host Chan before? If not, you'll have to call your most likely PBS/CTV station and ask them what's up, or another Toronto user can provide that info for you?

Toronto Jack, you there?

I live in the Toronto area, I have no listings since the 25th of April. I do have a channel line-up and clock. My host listings says it's 0xC which I think is a good thing. It's just the listings won't come in.

I lost my TVGOS data yesterday. I did the TVGOS reset withouth the total reset hoping to save my scheduled recordings. It started populating overnite and I still have my scheduled recordings in place.

I sure wish Pioneer would address this with a FW update.

Rick

I live in the Toronto area, I have no listings since the 25th of April. I do have a channel line-up and clock. My host listings says it's 0xC which I think is a good thing. It's just the listings won't come in.
I believe 0xC means Channel 12?

Since you do show a Host Chan, it's possible that Toronto area is having another "outage" problem. Last time, Panasonic got enough calls to check the situation and post a schedule for recovery of the TVGOS signal. This might be a similar situation.

If 0xC is 12, you and Wabamun could call that station and ask them what's up?

I lost my TVGOS data yesterday. I did the TVGOS reset withouth the total reset hoping to save my scheduled recordings. It started populating overnite and I still have my scheduled recordings in place.

I sure wish Pioneer would address this with a FW update.

RickMyself, with my Sony HD DVR and some others with the LG HD DVR in the Chicago area have been losing channels and listing a lot again lately. I did a reset with a different zip and some have come back overnight, but not all yet. It sounds like TVGOS is still fiddling around with upgrades or something, which it often turns out to be when this starts happening. It usually happens all over the country around the same time. So that could be a possibility, just so you're aware. But then again, maybe not. I know that some have noticed that they have changed some of the channel logos in the last few months.

If you did the full double-code TVG reset...(if not, do it now)...you'll have to wait overnight with unit off to see if your Host Chan re-appears and everything is OK. Check again in the a.m.

I suspect your TVG info and clock are probably provided by the same Host Chan. If no Host Chan in the a.m., your only hope is that your Host Chan's encoder broke or got unplugged. Hopefully, you know what channel/station was your Host Chan before? If not, you'll have to call your most likely PBS/CTV station and ask them what's up, or another Toronto user can provide that info for you?

Toronto Jack, you there?

Did the reset again and used a Buffalo zip code. Fixed the clock problem and I have a bunch of Buffalo stations now with no listings. I suspect it is a problem with the host channel in Toronto (CTV channel 13). Hopefully they will get it working soon. At least with a valid epg signal from Buffalo I have a working clock so I can schedule recordings manually.

Anyone in the Greater Toronto area have a working TVG?

Thanks.

Did the reset again and used a Buffalo zip code. Fixed the clock problem and I have a bunch of Buffalo stations now with no listings. I suspect it is a problem with the host channel in Toronto (CTV channel 13). Hopefully they will get it working soon. At least with a valid epg signal from Buffalo I have a working clock so I can schedule recordings manually.

Anyone in the Greater Toronto area have a working TVG?

Thanks.

I put it a different postal code and it worked for me, try putting in a postal code from a nearby city.

I put it a different postal code and it worked for me, try putting in a postal code from a nearby city.

I will give it a try and report back. Thanks.

I will give it a try and report back. Thanks.


Well still no TVGOS with the new postal code.
At least my clock is working now.

Myself, with my Sony HD DVR and some others with the LG HD DVR in the Chicago area have been losing channels and listing a lot again lately. I did a reset with a different zip and some have come back overnight, but not all yet. It sounds like TVGOS is still fiddling around with upgrades or something, which it often turns out to be when this starts happening. It usually happens all over the country around the same time. So that could be a possibility, just so you're aware. But then again, maybe not. I know that some have noticed that they have changed some of the channel logos in the last few months.

Thanks for info. Hope it settles down with the season finales coming up now.

Thanks,
Rick

Yay, the 653274147 code worked for me.
Brif summary of my situation:
TVG worked just fine for a couple on months.
Then lost it. Did the "toggle everything" and it came back (minus one channel)
Did a hard reset and it came back for a while.
Then I lost it and gave up (just used manual to record)
Then I tried that code and now it works!
MOST of the time, when I lost schedule information, I still had some show info (I could do a search, and sometimes when I did a manual record it would put in the show name)

But for now I have everthing.
Oh, and: no cable, over the air with rooftop antenna.

Brian

got mine working now too almost identical to n9iwp.

so thanks to waxbjo adyu and all others who help out so much in this thread

This thread has gotten really long, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned.
My Pioneer too has been loosing it's listings from time to time, I tried AYDU's fix, but with the same result, after 2-3 weeks I loose my listings. A reset does work for me, but as you know you have to redo all of your search info and scheduling everytime which is a real pain and TVGOS has to re-populate from day 1. I contacted Pioneer, they replied telling me that my cable company (Shaw in Vancouver) was not providing me with a constant stream of information, that is the TVGOS info, which Shaws says is not their responsibility. The next time I lost my guide, I was going to do a reset, but happened to notice that my clock settings, originally set to Auto, was now on manually. I did the navigation wizard set up again to reset my clock only and found that the original channel (ch10) I was on to receive my clock info was no longer working, I tried to set the clock back to auto with CH10 again, and it worked, the next day I had my guide back. Unfortunately after a 2 more days I lost it again. Sure enough my clock setting was back to manual. I went back to reset my clock again, but this time I switched to channel 27. I believe if the info stream is interrupted for a period of time, the Pioneer unit stops receiving the stream until it is reset, once I did the clock reset the system continues where it left off. The next morning my guide info was back with all days of listings and I didn't have to redo any programming! Although I did loose my guide for a day, just resetting the clock was much less painful than the full reset.

Hope this helps some of you.
R.

I sent an Email to Adelphia today asking if they passed the " Gemstar T.V. Guide onscreen" signal. Or Did they block it? I mentioned that the signal is carried by PBS.

I'm assuming that since my Panasonic VCR can't autoset the clock,That TVGOS is a no go as well.

Allthough but the new Pioneers have Manual Timer and VCR plus as well.

Over the last week I've lost my listings numerous times. Each time I lose the listings, I've noticed that my clock setting has been changed from auto to manual. Doing the Nav setup again to reset my clock back to auto restores my listings.

So the question is why is my clock setting being changed?

I believe it's either the data stream not being consistant, which triggers the Pioneer system to revert to manual, or the unit reseting the clock for some unknown reason.

I've tried using numerous channels for clock syncronization, 10, 14, and 27 (Vancouver Lower Mainland area) with the same result. It would seem unreasonable that all 3 channels would drop their stream, could it be my cable provider (Shaw) itself?

Anybody have any ideas? Is there a way I can check? :confused:

I sent an Email to Adelphia today asking if they passed the " Gemstar T.V. Guide onscreen" signal. Or Did they block it? I mentioned that the signal is carried by PBS.
Adelphia will not be able to help since it's the STATION (PBS if Pioneer) that has the Gemstar inserter. You can only call the Host PBS station, but you must ask for "Engineering" or the Chief Engineer to check their Gemstar/Norpak inserter to make sure it's working...it's a "plug-in" device that even the station can't troubleshoot or decode to see what's happening, all they can do is make sure it's plugged in and the telephone line for the TVGOS data stream is connected. PBS has asked Gemstar many times for decoders so they could troubleshoot the inserter but have been denied each time.

In a multi-station, simulcast PBS state like I'm in, the stations are unmanned and get their content via microwave from a central ops center. When I called the Chief Engineer, he could only check the inserter during one of their regular visits to the remote stations. As you can imagine, this could lead to outages in the TVGOS without anyone knowing it until someone calls to complain. With Pioneer's "delicate" TVG system, all Pio owners need to have their Host PBS station's main engineering tel. # on speed dial!

Gemstar holds its "secrets" very closely and is quick to sue, even suing Pioneer over their use of Gemstar-like TVGOS systems, which resulted in a patent license for Pioneer in NA in Mar 2004 (Europe in Aug 2005), but probably some bitterness, which might explain some of Pioneer's trouble with their TVGOS system. Gemstar and TIVO/DirectTV have been in bed for much longer and have had a much more amicable relationship...more like a business "partnership."

Can someone please tell me what post# is aydu's fix? I searched his threads and can't seem to come up with it. Is it a step by step post or??

I think a periodocal post of "aydu's fix, post _______" should be inserted every 5 pages! ;)

Please fill in the blank for me.
Thanks.

GOOD NEWS!

I just got off the phone w/Pioneer on the "Case" I established in June re: Warranty service/response on the defective EPG issue.

The "technical" rep. who took my TVGOS data and sent it to Gemstar called yesterday, but I was not home. His message was, "There will be a software update available this month that should fix the "Rebuilding..." problem."

I called this a.m. to find out how that update will be delivered and he's supposed to call me back today. I'll post again when I know.

Sounds promising, thanks for following up on this, wabjxo!

:D OK, HERE'S THE PROCEDURE FOR UPDATING (FIXING?) YOUR 53X/63X TVGOS/EPG:

I'm getting a disc via mail to insert in the machine for a S/W update.

Others who have a Case # already with Pioneer should also be getting a disc in the mail.

If you don't have a Case # (or just want an update on an existing Case), you need to call 1-800-421-1404, Option #2, then #4 for "Warranty." (I hope that's right...you just need to get to the "Warranty" option).

Establish a Case # for the TVGOS/EPG problem and request the new Software Update.

I'll post again after giving my update sufficient time to notice any differences in TVGOS/EPG behavior...altho' mine has been working OK for awhile now.

wabjxo -- just got off the phone with Pio -- as per your instructions, called 1-800-421-1404, Option #2, then #4 for "Warranty." I already had a case #.

Anyway, the rep said there is no software upgrade she is aware of. She put me on hold and checked with customer support, who confirmed no update disk is in the works.

What's up?

wabjxo -- just got off the phone with Pio -- as per your instructions, called 1-800-421-1404, Option #2, then #4 for "Warranty." I already had a case #.

Anyway, the rep said there is no software upgrade she is aware of. She put me on hold and checked with customer support, who confirmed no update disk is in the works.

What's up?
I wish I knew for sure!

I'm hoping I actually will receive a disc! I can only guess that maybe the front-line reps haven't heard about the update S/W? I talked to one of their "Technical" reps, which is apparently the 2nd line of defense. On one call, their front-line rep. said a "Senior Rep." should be contacting me, and that turned out to be David, a tech. rep. who had collected all my TVGOS system data for review by Gemstar.

I think I'll call again and check this out.

Please let us know what you find out. I was excited when I read your first post about the upgrade, then bummed out when others did not get the same info about the upgrade.


Keep us posted.

I e-mailed them with my original case and asked that they include me in the upgrade mailing. It will be interesting to see what I get as a response.

Up to now, Pioneer customer service has been far less knowledgeable that the members of this forum.

I wish I knew for sure!

I'm hoping I actually will receive a disc! I can only guess that maybe the front-line reps haven't heard about the update S/W? I talked to one of their "Technical" reps, which is apparently the 2nd line of defense. On one call, their front-line rep. said a "Senior Rep." should be contacting me, and that turned out to be David, a tech. rep. who had collected all my TVGOS system data for review by Gemstar.

I think I'll call again and check this out.


Wab,

I called yesterday as well. First line customer support immediately passed me on to technical support when I asked about TVGOS problem and a software upudate.

After I described the problem to tech support, and asked about the software upgrade, the tech support person said she knew of no softwaer upgrades. She shaid she could help me reset it. I told her I had planty of practice doing that. I asked for second level support after that.

When he got on phone I described problem and asked about the software upgrade. He put me on hold to check their system, but came back and said there system was down. He opened a ticket for me, gave me a number and said someone would contact me. He didnt seem to know anything about the software upgrade either, but did say they would contact me.

I did mention this forum when I asked about the software upgrade. (and I think he might have actually put it in ticket, since as he was writing the ticket he asked again what forum I saw this in).

I hope they do have the fix. It's the only negative thing I've had about thsi recorder.

Thanks for keeping us updated Wab.


Rick

I just found this forum yesterday and the information has been outstanding. I wish I had found you guys when I first bought my 633 back in November. Anyway just wanted to share my experience with Pio regarding this upgrade. I called customer support, went to their warranty entry and spoke to a first level tech. I told her my issue briefly with the TVGOS and said I wanted to open a ticket (I hadn't done this before because when I spoke to customer support back in February, they told me they knew of the problem but that it was TV Guide's problem and they were waiting on a fix,, so they would not open a ticket for me at that time). Anyway, this first level tech passed me on to technical support. I spoke to someone named Larry, told him of the issue and asked about the software upgrade. I told him that a tech named David had said an upgrade was available. Well Larry said the upgrade was not quite ready to send out and he had just spoken to David about this morning. He said if I wanted an upgrade, I should speak with David. He transferred me but I got David's voice mail, left a message but have not received a reply yet.

I firmly believe there is an upgrade almost ready and it will be sent out to those who have case numbers. I don't know if Pio thinks this will just solve specific problems and might not want to notify the entire registered base. But it is for sure that their first line tech support knows nothing about this.

Again thanks to all you who have posted suggestions, work arounds and advice. It's is nice to know that I'm not alone.

I know we're all anxious to get the "update" but I hope no one else mentions the tech rep's name at this point....I shouldn't have listed it, and he did ask me not to reveal his tel. #, so he could get pi**ed and we don't want that...yet.

I did ask him for instructions on how "a couple of my friends" could also get the update, so maybe the "couple of" people who have already used his name can be my "buds"...at least until we get the update.

We seem to have confirmed that an update is "in the works," and maybe patience will serve us all better at this point in time?

I've been patient up to this point, what do I have to lose?

Once I reset my entire recorder, I can get the EPG to work reliably for up to a couple of months between losses of the guide.

I have it working now, and hopefully it will continue till an update is available.

Hi Guys!

Just to tell you that Pioneer Canada (Customer Support Departement) made an arrangement with me, to exchanged my faulty Pioneer DVR-633H-S (EPG , TV Guide if you prefer, not fonctioning correctly) They will send me a brand new 2006 Model, the DVR-640
Without any charge.

I was having lots of problems with the TV Guide ( never work here in Montreal SouthShore )

I call them maybe 5 times to resolve my problems since a got this device, And now they finally admit that they were having problems with the TV Guide feature on there 2005 Models.

I'm so happy that all my problems will gone with the new one..

So all of you users of DVR-633 or DVR-533 are having troubles with it.
Give a try, Call them, you got nothing to lose, just complaint to them if its not working.

If you are lucky enough they will send you the new one like me....


Good luck everyone

Norm

I've been patient up to this point, what do I have to lose?

Once I reset my entire recorder, I can get the EPG to work reliably for up to a couple of months between losses of the guide.

I have it working now, and hopefully it will continue till an update is available.

aydu,

Tha's how I proceed as well. Although mine seems to go out in the 3-5 week range. Generally not a problem, except this spring, I set up the season finale of LOST, and went on a trip.

When I got back, no LOST. Usually it keep my scheduled recording, but twice now it hasn't. Not sure what the differnce is.

Well, i'm hoping they do realize an update. Other than the TVGOS, I've been really happy with the Pio 531.

Rick

BAD NEWS!

"My tech rep" at Pioneer finally returned my call re: the UPDATE!

IT WAS A MISTAKE!

It was for different product (or just another stalling technique?).

THERE IS NO UPDATE FOR TVGOS!

Your hopes can be dashed now! :mad: :o :confused: :( :eek:

"My tech rep" at Pioneer finally returned my call re: the UPDATE!

IT WAS A MISTAKE!

If this is really true (and who can tell with Pio support), I'm done with pio products. It used to be a great brand.

Oh well, I only lose my EPG data once every so often. A reset always brings it back.

Pioneer, however, has lost my business forever.

Just received a DVR640 in an even exchange for my 533. Took about a month after I turned over the 533 to Customer Service because CS had to wait for its July allocation of the product.

You guys might remember me from this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=579153) ... I have reset my TV Guide on numerous occasions, and have even done hard resets at least five times in the past 3 months, but nothing is allowing my 531 to download (it worked flawlessly for 8 months or so, but just quit) ... I contacted Pioneer, in which they claimed that there was an issue with the actual signal (that I wasn't receiving it), and told me to contact my local PBS station to see if their Gemstar Encoder was working. I followed their advice and, sure enough, the encoder was working wonderfully. The nice gentleman at my PBS station forwarded a message to the TVGOS support, in which I have yet been able to get a hold of.

The EPG light still shows on my recorder, but I rarely hear the audible sounds that I used to hear blaring constantly -- and when I do hear them, they're quite a bit slower and more drawn-out, almost as if it's trying to download data, but there's nothing there...

I doubt this would have anything to do with it, but a few days prior to when I lost all of my data, I defragmented (or whatever it's called on the actual recorder) the drive ... Then, like just one day before the information was completely gone, the power flickered a few times; but I doubt that would mess the machine up completely.

Anyway, I live in a small town called Grant on the southern part of Brevard County, Florida (below Melbourne and Palm Bay), and before my incident, I had used a Palm Bay zip code, which worked flawlessly ... Since I lost the data, I've been switching between Palm Bay and Melbourne zip codes, hoping that, for some reason, that cures the problem. So far, no luck.

If anyone is able to give me any tips, that would be great ... Unfortunately, it looks like this is a pretty widespread issue; which would explain why the new models don't even feature the TVGOS system. It sucks, too, because in theory, the TVGOS is an awesome idea...

On my 531, any power drops or outs...even a nanosecond...loses TVG as does any RF outs (like pulling the coax).

You should be able to get TVG back with the TVG reset codes:
Go to TVG > SETUP > Highlight "Change system settings" (don't press Enter) > Enter on remote 753159852 > Enter 653274147 > Press TVG button > Turn power off.

(I think the 2nd # w/o the 1st also works by itself, but just to be sure use both #s.)

Turn power on and do a TVG reset, using the zip that worked before. Rekey Zip Code and toggle any items that might remain from before. If you get an initial menu that asks if everything is OK, select the "No my settings are wrong" item (or whatever the last choice says).

Next morning you may get a message to pick your cable system. Once selected, TVG should start filling up Days 1,2 and 8, then the rest.)???

Hi there,
I just joined right now as I just purchased and received the Pioneer 640H-S and don't know beans about DVR's etc. other than I have wanted one for the longest time and finally got one and hope I did the right thing by getting the 640?
I haven't turned it on yet to do the set up as I am shivering in my boots to do so!
I hooked it up by using the video component jacks as that is what my TV had open to use.
Has anyone hooked theirs up using the video component jacks? Took me quite a long time to figure how as the startup guide confused me a little. Had to buy cables first.
I must say, I am very CONFUSED on reading statements on this forum that ithe 640 doesn't have the EPG when mine does?????? At least I think it does? How does one know if it has or not?
Any hints on getting me going is deeply appreciated.
I understand I now have to turn the DVR on and follow a setup of some kind?
I have a big screen Mitsubishi analog TV and am on cable. Not broadband.
Thanx,
Urlee

If your remote has a "TV Guide" button, and if you get something like this when you press it:

http://www.tvguideonscreen.com/images/digitalrec/digitalrecp2.gif

...then your recorder has the EPG ("Enhanced Program Guide", also known as TVGOS, "TV Guide On Screen").

On my 531, any power drops or outs...even a nanosecond...loses TVG as does any RF outs (like pulling the coax).

You should be able to get TVG back with the TVG reset codes:
Go to TVG > SETUP > Highlight "Change system settings" (don't press Enter) > Enter on remote 753159852 > Enter 653274147 > Press TVG button > Turn power off.

(I think the 2nd # w/o the 1st also works by itself, but just to be sure use both #s.)

Turn power on and do a TVG reset, using the zip that worked before. Rekey Zip Code and toggle any items that might remain from before. If you get an initial menu that asks if everything is OK, select the "No my settings are wrong" item (or whatever the last choice says).

Next morning you may get a message to pick your cable system. Once selected, TVG should start filling up Days 1,2 and 8, then the rest.)???

Thanks, man ... I'll do that this evening, and report on it tomorrow. :^)

Hi Sean,
My opologies,
Having wanted to get the 633 last year, I was reading the specs from that, thinking it was the 640. Realize now the 640 doesn't say it does have it.
Now I am finding out that having the component video hookup doesn't mean my TV is Progressive Scan compatible? It doesn't say in black & white if it it is?
Can that connection be used for the hookup even if the TV isn't compatible with progressive scan?
I was unaware of a having to be compatible. I just thought by having the component connection was all that was needed to be.
My TV doesn't state the word progressive scan in black & white so I have no way of telling?
It just describes the Input levels and Timing with Component Video, like Y = 1.0Vp-p (includes sync) 75ohms etc..on to the Pr & Pb=700mVp-p.
It says these inputs are compatible with component video signals from standard DVD players and other equipment sending a standard NTSC component video signal (480i).
What does that mean?
I still have yet to turn the DVR on for the set up, as I don't know, if by the way I have it connected, is OK and do I check Compatible instead of Not for PScan when setting it up?
I hope this unit is still in warranty by the time I get her going? :)
Also worried if it works? Better get it going soon.
So happy to have found this forum! I love it.

Urlee

Hi there,
I just joined right now as I just purchased and received the Pioneer 640H-S and don't know beans about DVR's etc. other than I have wanted one for the longest time and finally got one and hope I did the right thing by getting the 640?
I haven't turned it on yet to do the set up as I am shivering in my boots to do so!
I hooked it up by using the video component jacks as that is what my TV had open to use.
Has anyone hooked theirs up using the video component jacks? Took me quite a long time to figure how as the startup guide confused me a little. Had to buy cables first.
I must say, I am very CONFUSED on reading statements on this forum that ithe 640 doesn't have the EPG when mine does?????? At least I think it does? How does one know if it has or not?
Any hints on getting me going is deeply appreciated.
I understand I now have to turn the DVR on and follow a setup of some kind?
I have a big screen Mitsubishi analog TV and am on cable. Not broadband.
Thanx,
Urlee

The 640 does not have the TVGOS EPG. The 2005 53X and 63X series did not implement the TVGOS EPG properly. In response, Pioneer removed the TVGOS from their 2006 recorders, leaving VCR+ and manual timer recordings.

In my area, the electric company has a program that shuts off power to volunteers, during high use hours, in return for a reduced electric rate. I have this program and a Pioneer 531.

Yesterday was one of the days that the power got cut for a couple of hours. Interestingly enough, it had no impact on my Pioneer's EPG.

The EPG had been working fine since a recent factory reset of the recorder, which is needed every so often to keep the EPG functional.

Just thought I'd pass this along as people have indicated that these units seem to be very sensitive to power outages.

...It says these inputs are compatible with component video signals from standard DVD players and other equipment sending a standard NTSC component video signal (480i).If you don't see the phrase "480p" in your manual somewhere close to where it says "480i", then your TV isn't capable of displaying a progressive signal.

If you're bold you could actually try setting the Pioneer to output a progressive signal to see if it works or not. The trick is that if it doesn't work you won't be able to see the setup menus to set it back again. The way out of this Catch-22 situation is to reset the recorder by going to it's front panel (not the remote), then pressing and holding the STOP button and press the PLAY button at the same time.

In my area, the electric company has a program that shuts off power to volunteers, during high use hours, in return for a reduced electric rate. I have this program and a Pioneer 531.

Yesterday was one of the days that the power got cut for a couple of hours. Interestingly enough, it had no impact on my Pioneer's EPG.

The EPG had been working fine since a recent factory reset of the recorder, which is needed every so often to keep the EPG functional.

Just thought I'd pass this along as people have indicated that these units seem to be very sensitive to power outages.

My EPG has been up and running now for about 5 months. I implemented the fix described by Aydu and its been running fine ever since. I even added (turned on) a few additional channels to my guide about a month ago and it is still working great. This is the second time I've used his fix. The 1st time fixed it for about 2 months. This time is much longer. I've even experience a few power outages durring this last stint with no impact to the EPG. I highly recomend everyone use this fix.

As someone requested a few pages back, the 'fix' by aydu can be found back at 02-09-06 06:14 PM (about page 15).

LazyK - Dan

I just wanted to report that, even after resetting my DVR-531 (as listed above), I still have no data.

What gets me is that the EPG light is on, but I don't hear it downloading anything, like I used to ... Quite depressing.

Thank you for the info, Wab and Aydu. It really does mean a lot to me.

If anyone has any other recommendations, it'd be great...

At this point, you probably need to call your local PBS station engineer and ask if the Gemstar/Norpak encoder/inserter is working for the TVGOS signal.

If you let me know where you're located (city, state zip), I can give you the probable station and tel. #.

I actually did contact my local PBS station, and they said that the encoder was working fine, and suggested it was an issue with my machine or cable provider; to which Pioneer insisted my 531 wasn't receiving a TVGOS signal, whatsoever, and blamed the Gemstar signal-thingy... lol.

I'm going to try resetting one more time, and if that doesn't work, I'm going to call TVGOS and talk firsthand.

Oh, I live in a small town, called Grant (area code 32949), that's just south of Melbourne, Florida.

Thank you very much for everything. :^)

Sorry for the double post, but I needed to ask a question to Aydu...

4. I immediately went into the channel editor and turned off one of the two PBS stations that are provided by my cable system. I get PBS on channels 12 and 13 on my cable system. Channel 13 was where the EPG diagnostic screens told me the guide info was coming from. I turned off channel 12 in the TV tuner.

Now, by "turning off" that channel, do you mean that you went into the Home Menu, Initial Setup, Manual Tuning (or whatever), and then found the PBS channel that you didn't need and chose "Skip". I only ask because I wasn't sure if there was another way to "turn off" the unnecessary channel.

Skarusty, there is one more thing you could do, and it's something that has worked for me when all else failed: do a new auto channel search using Setup Navigator (not Initial Setup), then a TVG reset.

In the TVG reset, make sure you rekey your zip code and toggle the other responses, even tho' the old info. might already be there.

If you later get into turning channels off, that's done via the TVG > SETUP > Change channel display menu.

Sorry for the double post, but I needed to ask a question to Aydu...



Now, by "turning off" that channel, do you mean that you went into the Home Menu, Initial Setup, Manual Tuning (or whatever), and then found the PBS channel that you didn't need and chose "Skip". I only ask because I wasn't sure if there was another way to "turn off" the unnecessary channel.

Yes. This is how I deactivated the channel.

I have gotten long periods where the EPG works perfectly. In fact, I'm in one of those cycles right now - works every day, like clockwork.

When it does lose the information, I have found it easiest to just to a complete factory reset of the unit. That has never failed to generate EPG data the next day.

The downside to doing this is that you have to redo any modifications you may have made to the channel lineup and reselect your recurring recordings. After that, it seems to chug away, rebuilding all 8 days of listings, until something unknown happens that causes the recorder to lose the EPG data again.

When it is running right, I have experienced power outages for several hours with no disruption; outages of the PBS station that carries the Gemstar signal; etc. with no adverse affects.

I've come to wonder if channel changes to my cable lineup somehow cause the problem. My cable provider adds and drops stations every once in awhile. I wonder if the software in the recorder has problems with additions or deletions.

Just a guess, and I've had many guesses as to why this system goes down.

Pioneer and Gemstar are the only ones that could provide a definitive answer, and they have completely ignored the flaws in their products.

My recourse is to withhold my future purchasing dollars from Pioneer and will likely avoid any product that features any version of the TVGOS system. Throwing half baked products at consumers, without support, is not something I will accept in a company.

Thank you, Wab and Aydu ... I'll update you guys tomorrow with the new information.

Oh, and it's incredibly ironic that you mentioned your cable company adding/changing channels and it having an effect on the TVGOS system, Aydu, because, right around the same time that this problem started occuring, my cable company had just moved two stations to different channels.

As of this morning, after "skipping" two PBS stations that I know I don't receive EPG information from, I hear my 531 making those audible "download" sounds it used to ... I'm afraid to check it right now, so I will tomorrow morning, to give it all the time possible. :^)

Thank you both again.

My recourse is to withhold my future purchasing dollars from Pioneer and will likely avoid any product that features any version of the TVGOS system. Throwing half baked products at consumers, without support, is not something I will accept in a company.

Aydu, how do you receive your TVGOS, through analog cable without a STB, or through a STB? The reason I ask is that the TVGOS EPG works very well on Panasonic DVD recorders if it is received through analog cable (STBs create problems, except the newer Panasonic recorders seem to have improved on this).

For some unknown reason, Pioneer recorders seem to have great difficulty with the TVGOS EPG. No one, to my knowledge, has offered convincing information as to why. This became a problem of such great extent that reportedly Pioneer removed the remaining 2005 HDD recorders from the market. I still have not seen proof that this has occurred, since there are still reports of units being available. In addition, the 2006 640 model does not have the TVGOS EPG, only VCR+.

More to your point, the TVGOS EPG works very well in a number of DVD recorders, not to mention TVs, it just doesn't work well in some.

For some unknown reason, Pioneer recorders seem to have great difficulty with the TVGOS EPG. No one, to my knowledge, has offered convincing information as to why.
I have a "theory" on that, but it's only "circumstantial."

I think Pio made a mistake by using only PBS as the SOLE source of the TVGOS signal...they're not designed to find any other independent source for that signal when an "error" occurs.

Your Panny is designed for and uses various commercial networks/stations, in addition to PBS, which gives your TVGOS system multiple "paths" for its signal.

PBS is ~40% supported by the U.S. govt, so it could easily be suffering from the malaise that seems to affect "many" govt and govt-sponsored operations.

Of course, an alternate explanation could be that the Pio design engineers are still asking what the words "fault isolation" mean!!!

Wabjxo, was the PBS-only download of TVGOS EPG on Pioneer recorders ever proven? It would only take 1 person who received the EPG from a non-PBS station to disprove it.

Has anyone with a Pioneer recorder ever mentioned that they received the EPG from a non-PBS station?

Here's a chance for you to tell us, if you are out there!!