I think Pio made a mistake by using only PBS as the SOLE source of the TVGOS signal...they're not designed to find any other independent source for that signal when an "error" occurs.I'm not sure that's true. First, the TVGOS software wasn't created by Pioneer, it was created by the TVGOS people and integrated into the recorder by Pioneer. The other recorders (Panny, Tosh, etc.) are using the same software and apparently don't have the same problems. This makes it more likely that the Pioneer problems are an integration issue more than a flaw in the basic design of the system.

Secondly, here in Canada my TVGOS host channel is not PBS, it is the Canadian CTV network, and I have the same issues that are happening in America. The recorders obviously aren't dependent on a single channel, they just look for the signal whereever they can. The fact that TVGOS has contracted the PBS network (through their data distributing arm) to carry the guide data doesn't seem likely to be the root of the problem.

It's likely due to Pioneer's design of the circuitry that picks up the TVGOS signal being flawed. The manufactures get the same specs and software(they should anyway) and its up to them to meet them. Other manufactures like Panasonic seem to have done a better job at it.

Likely, TVGOS used PBS stations to help fund them and due them having a station in every market, as oppose to WB or UPN.

There is too many hands in the pot, with the systems to work right 100% of the time, TVGOS, PBS & CTV, manufactures, equipment failures, signal interference, solar flares, acts of God. :)

They should not have set up these machines to be so dependent on TVGOS, manual recording should take precedence.

My 2 cents.

I live in Canada too and have confirmed through the debugging screen that my host channel is also CTV, a commercial channel. My TVGOS has been sporatic at best for the last year but I know the problem isn't my Pioneer 533. I also have an RCA TV that uses Guide Plus (another gemstar product) and everytime my DVR loses its listings, so does my TV, even when they both have independent cable connections. I have tried all the different resets on both products and it never brings it back. And then one day I turn them both on and the listings are back. They have been gone now for about 6-8 weeks so if anyone has any new ideas ... ?

Here's my update:

Still no luck. A few days ago, I reported "hearing" my Pioneer downloading the data, but when I went to turn it on this past night (after giving it a couple of days), it just popped straight up to the TVGOS menu (no menu asking me to choose my cable provider, etc...) ... The time/date/year and everything had updated from my PBS station, but when I went to the debugging menu, nothing was next to the slot where it reports what station is sending the Gemstar data. I wonder what it was downloading the other morning, then... *Shakes head*

Okay ... I called Pioneer today, and they told me that "Bright House Networks" (my cable company) was/is having trouble with transferring EPG/Gemstar/TVGOS data, and they have been for a few months (which is around the time that my problem started occuring). According to the guy at Pioneer, TV Guide is working with Bright House to get the signal working again, but they don't expect any progress for another month or so.

Now, this is a weird question, and I don't think it's possible, but ... If I were able to go buy a small, indoor antenna for my recorder from, say, Wal-Mart, would it be possible to have the recorder set up so that it'll download the EPG data via the antenna broadcast from my PBS station (since their encoder is working, but Bright House is at fault for keeping the signal from reaching my house), yet I can still record from the cable connection? You know what I mean? Like, the DVR would download the guide from the antenna, but I could use that guide information to record shows from the cable?

Thanks guys... :^P

Long ago, that subject was discussed and I thought a splitter, turned backwards, might be able to combine an OTA antenna and a cable feed. I tried that and it didn't work...signal was degraded and I lost what TVG I had built up.

However, Radio Shack sells a Combiner" that combines 75-ohm VHF and 300-ohm UHF into a 75-ohm VHF/UHF out. (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062059&cp=&origkw=combiner&kw=combiner&parentPage=search) You could combine a 300-ohm rabbit ears antenna and your 75-ohm cable coax and see what happens. The "Combiner" is only $5.99...a cheap "experiment"???

However, Radio Shack sells a Combiner" that combines 75-ohm VHF and 300-ohm UHF into a 75-ohm VHF/UHF out. (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062059&cp=&origkw=combiner&kw=combiner&parentPage=search) You could combine a 300-ohm rabbit ears antenna and your 75-ohm cable coax and see what happens. The "Combiner" is only $5.99...a cheap "experiment"???

Most likely this will result in whacking a substantial number of cable channels since the OTA and cable channels share some of the same frequencies ...

-Jim

Now, this is a weird question, and I don't think it's possible, but ... If I were able to go buy a small, indoor antenna for my recorder from, say, Wal-Mart, would it be possible to have the recorder set up so that it'll download the EPG data via the antenna broadcast from my PBS station (since their encoder is working, but Bright House is at fault for keeping the signal from reaching my house), yet I can still record from the cable connection? You know what I mean? Like, the DVR would download the guide from the antenna, but I could use that guide information to record shows from the cable?

Thanks guys... :^P

Would it be possible to plug the cable box into one of the inputs via audio/video cables on the DVR and get the DVR to control the box and use like "input 1" instead of the RF input for recording?

Yes, you can record from the A/V line inputs of a DVD Recorder. As far as the DVD Recorder controlling the Cable Box, that's what the IR Blaster is for, althoug people sometimes have trouble getting that all to work right.

HELP Please... :confused:

Hope this is the right forum to post this...

Trying to get TVGOS working on my Hitachi 55HDT52 connected to a Motorola DCT6200HD on Shaw Cable in Victoria, BC

TVGOS was working fine on DCT2500.

Tried resetting, rebooting, no luck! :(

Thanks to anybody who can help.

I live in Canada too and have confirmed through the debugging screen that my host channel is also CTV, a commercial channel. My TVGOS has been sporatic at best for the last year but I know the problem isn't my Pioneer 533. I also have an RCA TV that uses Guide Plus (another gemstar product) and everytime my DVR loses its listings, so does my TV, even when they both have independent cable connections. I have tried all the different resets on both products and it never brings it back. And then one day I turn them both on and the listings are back. They have been gone now for about 6-8 weeks so if anyone has any new ideas ... ?

It is difficult to know where the fault lies... I can only confirm that here in Calgary, EPG data is being transmitted through Shaw Cable.

If you are brave, here's link to a post I made about doing an accidental, REAL reset of the 633H. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=694630
Basically, after not working for 1/2 year, my EPG works again.

I wouldn't suggest just messing around with the codes like I did though. I have some of the commands now.

I'm glad I found this forum. I have given up on trying to use the epg on my Pioneer 531, to program recordings and just started doing it manually. The epg hates my cable system here in arizona. To set it up initally I had to change all my channel settings manually in the epg as none of them were correct for the cable system. EPG worked for a month and then poof! gone. It came back in 2 weeks then gone again in 8 days. I felt brave and did a reset and had to re-enter every channel again in the channel editor and it was gone again in 30 days. Is there any hope of Pioneer coming up with a solution? Looking at the dates on this thread it is not a new problem.

Is there any hope of Pioneer coming up with a solution? Looking at the dates on this thread it is not a new problem.
Pioneer tech. support says the problem is "unfixable." When you call Pio support, the "front-desk" people pass you off to a tech. rep. (if you persist), and they send you back to the front desk with the words "tell them it's unfixable."

You can do at least three things:
1-See Eureka thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=566167&highlight=Eureka) for one method of disabling EPG (and the TVG system as well).
2-See the Hostectomy thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=651494&highlight=Hostectomy) and keep your TVG menus but no EPG download-mania or listings.
3-Call Pio and press the option for "Warranty" and see what you can get done there.

P.S. If your "die-hard" and want to keep trying, I suggest you do a TVG reset (which you already know how to do?), then DON'T RE-ORDER YOUR CHANNEL LINEUP. Of course, this assumes you are getting the correct cable lineup (by zip code) or your OTA lineup in the first place. The only thing you might want to do is eliminate as many channels (turn them OFF) as you can...this might reduce the "work" EPG has to do to fill up your listings. Also, in case you have multiple PBS channels, keep only your HOST PBS channel in your lineup...you can find your host in the debug screens using the codes given throughout this thread.

Howdy folks. I'm one of the original guys who did some troubleshooting on this problem, spending lots of time with the debug screens. I think it was back in November that I finally got to a reasonable resolution of the problem.

I just happened to stop by this forum for the first time in months and saw that this thread was still active ... So, a little refresher on what has worked for me.

For the problem in this thread, which is that the EPG disappears on the Pioneer 533/633 models to leave just a "rebuilding in 24 hours" message, the solution is simple: do a "TVGOS reset" of the unit. This involves entering a code via the remote control, BUT NOT THE CODE THAT WIPES OUT ALL THE MEMORY. <A HREF="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6656805#post6656805">See my post here</A>. You do the 653274147 reset and it just resets the listings data -- the channel lineup and recording settings and hard drive recordings all persist through the TVGOS reset just fine.

And I pretty much only had to do that reset once, and since then the unit has been fine.

It's almost a year later in this unit works great for me now!

I'm glad I found this forum. I have given up on trying to use the epg on my Pioneer 531, to program recordings and just started doing it manually. The epg hates my cable system here in arizona. To set it up initally I had to change all my channel settings manually in the epg as none of them were correct for the cable system. EPG worked for a month and then poof! gone. It came back in 2 weeks then gone again in 8 days. I felt brave and did a reset and had to re-enter every channel again in the channel editor and it was gone again in 30 days. Is there any hope of Pioneer coming up with a solution? Looking at the dates on this thread it is not a new problem.

Ask Pioneer to replace it with a 2006 DVR-640H-S.

Hi Folks,

New member here but I have been watching this thread ever since I purchased my DVR 531 in November '05. I loved the machine until the deadly black screen appeared one day :eek: . I went thru all the calls to Pioneer....pushed all the buttons they told me to push but it still would end up with the black screen :mad: . My Zip is in the SF bay area - 95133.

I finally sent my 531 to Pioneer for "repair". They replaced the HDD and "upgraded" the firmware to 1.31. Things seems to work fine......until 2 weeks later the black screen returned :mad: . I HAD HAD ENOUGH of this mess. I went back to Walmart and was able to get them to refund my money after having used the unit for 10 months :) .

OK here is the question. Unlike many others, I like the TVG EPG when it works, and would like to buy a HDD DVR with TVG EPG that works. Has anyone dumped their Pioneer DVR 5xx/6xx with a malfunctioning EPG and replaced it with another HDD DVR brand that worked correctly and that they really like?

Thanks, RMR.

I've gotten used to the fact that eventually the EPG will go on my 531.

My only solution is a complete unit reset. This always begins repopulating the guide the next day.

I've had mine working for as long as 2 months without fail.

When it goes, it is most likely right after the guide has completed loading all 8 days of listings. If I can get past this point, I'm usually good to go for awhile.

While this is far from ideal, it really has saved me a lot of money. After the support I have received from Pioneer on this unit, I will never buy another of the their products.

I suspect these units could have been fixed with a simple firmware upgrade, which Pioneer decided not to do. The $ they saved on this, will end up costing them whatever profit they would have made from my business in the future.

I've gotten used to the fact that eventually the EPG will go on my 531.

My only solution is a complete unit reset. This always begins repopulating the guide the next day.

I've had mine working for as long as 2 months without fail.

When it goes, it is most likely right after the guide has completed loading all 8 days of listings. If I can get past this point, I'm usually good to go for awhile.

While this is far from ideal, it really has saved me a lot of money. After the support I have received from Pioneer on this unit, I will never buy another of the their products.

I suspect these units could have been fixed with a simple firmware upgrade, which Pioneer decided not to do. The $ they saved on this, will end up costing them whatever profit they would have made from my business in the future.

You have much more patience than I do.

I think that they must have completely washed their hands of the TVGOS system since it seems to be gone from their latest products. It's odd that they would not fix this problem given the amount of time that has transpired and the bad press that has been generated.

Three of us in my family purchased the DVR 5xx. I got my money back; the other 2 gave up after going thru the reset suggestions from Pioneer without resolving the problem. Now the units just sit there unused.....they've had it, but are too lazy to follow up any longer...they are just pissed. I don't even bring up the subject with them because I am the one who raved about the product in the beginning and convinced them to buy them. They have spent countless hours on the phone and one sent the unit in for repair....still not working. One thing for sure, they don't have much respect for the Pioneer brand name. Surely a good Pioneer or TVGuide engineer could fix this problem. Between Pioneer and TVGuide, there must be some real Bozos making decisions.

In any case, I would love to hear from others who have dumped their Pioneers and bought other brands that work correctly.

RMR

The TVGOS works very well on the Panasonic DVD recorders. I have a Panasonic E-500 (with HDD) and a Panasonic E-65 (without HDD), and the TVGOS EPG has worked very well on both of these 2004-2005 models.

Based on reports in this forum, the 2006 EH-55 (with HDD) and the EH-75 (with HDD and VHS) have an improved TVGOS EPG that works with some satellite receivers.

The reliability of TVGOS depends on the DVD recorder and the transmission by the host channel. It is impossible to make blanket statements about the the TVGOS in your area because the reliability of the transmission by the host channel is an unknown. But, if the host channel in your area reliably transmits the EPG data, then there is an excellent chance that the TVGOS on the 2006 Panasonics will work well.

The TVGOS works very well on the Panasonic DVD recorders. I have a Panasonic E-500 (with HDD) and a Panasonic E-65 (without HDD), and the TVGOS EPG has worked very well on both of these 2004-2005 models.

Based on reports in this forum, the 2006 EH-55 (with HDD) and the EH-75 (with HDD and VHS) have an improved TVGOS EPG that works with some satellite receivers.

The reliability of TVGOS depends on the DVD recorder and the transmission by the host channel. It is impossible to make blanket statements about the the TVGOS in your area because the reliability of the transmission by the host channel is an unknown. But, if the host channel in your area reliably transmits the EPG data, then there is an excellent chance that the TVGOS on the 2006 Panasonics will work well.

Thanks rgazzara,

I took a look at the EH-55, it looks pretty good. Has anyone who had a Pioneer 63x/53x with bad EPG swapped to the new Panasonics with good results?

RMR

OK here is the question. Unlike many others, I like the TVG EPG when it works, and would like to buy a HDD DVR with TVG EPG that works. Has anyone dumped their Pioneer DVR 5xx/6xx with a malfunctioning EPG and replaced it with another HDD DVR brand that worked correctly and that they really like?

Thanks, RMR.

I like the TVGOS too when it works, so I was disappointed when Pioneer decided to drop it from their new model rather than fixing it for existing and new models.

I looked at the Panasonic, and even tried one out at work, where we have one. It's good, but in the end I decided to go with a Toshiba because it not only has DV In, which Pioneer has also dropped, but its DV in can automatically create chapters based on either scene detection (DV cam stops and starts) or by using the DV camera's date stamp. It does this automatically in real time as it records. As well, the Toshiba can create title and chapter menus which allow the viewer to choose scenes (chapters) from the menu, which is also customizable by capturing a still from your movie to use as your menu background, plus other menu customizations.

I've only had it a couple of weeks and so far the TVGOS has worked as it should, but obviously time will be the real test. So far I quite happy. :)

I like the TVGOS too when it works, so I was disappointed when Pioneer decided to drop it from their new model rather than fixing it for existing and new models.

I looked at the Panasonic, and even tried one out at work, where we have one. It's good, but in the end I decided to go with a Toshiba because it not only has DV In, which Pioneer has also dropped, but its DV in can automatically create chapters based on either scene detection (DV cam stops and starts) or by using the DV camera's date stamp. It does this automatically in real time as it records. As well, the Toshiba can create title and chapter menus which allow the viewer to choose scenes (chapters) from the menu, which is also customizable by capturing a still from your movie to use as your menu background, plus other menu customizations.

I've only had it a couple of weeks and so far the TVGOS has worked as it should, but obviously time will be the real test. So far I quite happy. :)

Thanks plplplpl,

This is no easy job to compare all the features on these HDD DVRs. I have been looking at the Sony, Toshiba, and Panasonics. It seems there is little complaint with the TVGOS EPS implementations with these brands. I have been downloading the users manuals to see what they really do.

Is yours the Toshiba RD-XS55?

Thanks, RMR

I'm testing out a new theory on my 531's EPG.

I periodically lose the EPG, getting the "rebuilding" message. I've tried all the various reset codes, but the only one that works consistently is a complete reset of the unit.

The last time I lost the EPG, I did a reset of the unit, let it scan for channels, and entered the EPG information.

The next morning (as always when I do a reset) I get asked to pick my cable company from a list and things begin to populate.

Normally, things go well for about the next week, until the whole 8 days are loaded. It's then that things tend to get flaky with the EPG. It can disappear at any time.

This time I changed the way I select programs for recording.

In reading the manual for the new Pioneer 640 recorder (which does not have the EPG) I noticed that you can select up to 28 programs for recording. My 531 didn't have any limit on the number of programs I could select in the guide, so I decided to limit the number of recording selections in the guide, hoping this made a difference.

Normally, I select several programs for regular daily recording; another couple for weekly recording; and a mix of one time recording selections.

This time I limited myself to just selecting things to record once, and only selected programs for the next two days. My goal was to keep the number of selections under that 28 number mentioned in the 640's manual.

This has worked for me so far.

I am into two weeks of continuous EPG updates. I made it past the problem point of the 8 full days of listings.

My current theory (last of many) is that using the recorder to update daily (or weekly) program selections can over run the processing ability of the recorder if too many selections are made.

By eliminating recurring recordings, I'm eliminating the need for the recorder to update the guide as new days are added.

It's anybody's guess as to whether this will work long term, but it seems to be working now.

I'm testing out a new theory on my 531's EPG.

I periodically lose the EPG, getting the "rebuilding" message. I've tried all the various reset codes, but the only one that works consistently is a complete reset of the unit.

The last time I lost the EPG, I did a reset of the unit, let it scan for channels, and entered the EPG information.

The next morning (as always when I do a reset) I get asked to pick my cable company from a list and things begin to populate.

Normally, things go well for about the next week, until the whole 8 days are loaded. It's then that things tend to get flaky with the EPG. It can disappear at any time.

This time I changed the way I select programs for recording.

In reading the manual for the new Pioneer 640 recorder (which does not have the EPG) I noticed that you can select up to 28 programs for recording. My 531 didn't have any limit on the number of programs I could select in the guide, so I decided to limit the number of recording selections in the guide, hoping this made a difference.

Normally, I select several programs for regular daily recording; another couple for weekly recording; and a mix of one time recording selections.

This time I limited myself to just selecting things to record once, and only selected programs for the next two days. My goal was to keep the number of selections under that 28 number mentioned in the 640's manual.

This has worked for me so far.

I am into two weeks of continuous EPG updates. I made it past the problem point of the 8 full days of listings.

My current theory (last of many) is that using the recorder to update daily (or weekly) program selections can over run the processing ability of the recorder if too many selections are made.

By eliminating recurring recordings, I'm eliminating the need for the recorder to update the guide as new days are added.

It's anybody's guess as to whether this will work long term, but it seems to be working now.

I only have 4 to 5 program selections at any given time and I still lose the guide about every three to four weeks. But I am getting away with just doing the TVGOS reset.

It is difficult to know where the fault lies... I can only confirm that here in Calgary, EPG data is being transmitted through Shaw Cable.

If you are brave, here's link to a post I made about doing an accidental, REAL reset of the 633H.Basically, after not working for 1/2 year, my EPG works again.

I wouldn't suggest just messing around with the codes like I did though. I have some of the commands now.

Can you share how you did this?

I have owned the 633 for almost a year and have consistently had the TVGOS problem of losing data. This of course always works the hard disk very hard to try to recover. Well I woke up Saturday morning and got the dreaded HDD ERR message on my recorder, saying hard disk codes were incorrect and the disk must be re-initialized. I did that and machine came back to a virgin state and I had to do all setups again. I was gone for the day and when I returned, it had the HDD ERR again. It seems they can't even do the initialize disk correctly. If the disk is actually bad, the initialize disk process should not have worked. Now it has evolved so that any time I try to access the hard disk, either thru TVGOS or even trying another initialization, the thing locks up. I have to unplug it to get back control. I'm calling Pioneer today to see what they will do about this. I don't hold much hope. In the probable event that Pioneer service fails me again, does anyone have a recommendation on a non-Pioneer dvr that has the good editing features of the 633?

Well I just had the EPG wipe itself out for the second time in the past 2 months (rebuilding now after going into setup and toggling my postal code settings). This on top of suffering the problems during the mass outage in April/May in the Toronto area. That triggered me to come back to this forum again and see what's been happening.

It was reported many months back that Pioneer withdrew the DVR-533H & DVR-633H from sale, and that some members had even received a DVR-640H replacement from Pioneer Canada. Yet today (November 7, 2006) you can go to Pioneer Canada's home page at pioneerelectronics_ca (changed periods to underscores to pass the URL error edit on posts) and select For Home / DVD Players & Recorders then click on DVD Players/Records with Hard Disk Drives. Lo & behold there are the DVR-533H & DVR-633H - and even a nice paragraph touting the Free Electronic Program Guide.

And of course they won't FIX the problem with the EPG on the 533/633 (which from this thread, and the fact other manufacturers aren't having the same level of problem, seems to indicate Pioneer's implementation is at least partially to blame for the degree of problems we seem to have on these products). What a useless bunch of wankers. I'll never spend another cent on any Pioneer product, and I'll certainly inform all my friends and associates of how bad Pioneer and their support are and strongly urge everyone I know never to purchase another Pioneer product.

A message for Pioneer? Screw the consumer and the consumer will just say screw you.

Well I just had the EPG wipe itself out for the second time in the past 2 months (rebuilding now after going into setup and toggling my postal code settings). This on top of suffering the problems during the mass outage in April/May in the Toronto area. That triggered me to come back to this forum again and see what's been happening.

It was reported many months back that Pioneer withdrew the DVR-533H & DVR-633H from sale, and that some members had even received a DVR-640H replacement from Pioneer Canada. Yet today (November 7, 2006) you can go to Pioneer Canada's home page at pioneerelectronics_ca (changed periods to underscores to pass the URL error edit on posts) and select For Home / DVD Players & Recorders then click on DVD Players/Records with Hard Disk Drives. Lo & behold there are the DVR-533H & DVR-633H - and even a nice paragraph touting the Free Electronic Program Guide.

And of course they won't FIX the problem with the EPG on the 533/633 (which from this thread, and the fact other manufacturers aren't having the same level of problem, seems to indicate Pioneer's implementation is at least partially to blame for the degree of problems we seem to have on these products). What a useless bunch of wankers. I'll never spend another cent on any Pioneer product, and I'll certainly inform all my friends and associates of how bad Pioneer and their support are and strongly urge everyone I know never to purchase another Pioneer product.

A message for Pioneer? Screw the consumer and the consumer will just say screw you.Hi Neil...did you contact Pioneer during your warranty period? I got my 633 exchanged through Pioneer Canada and am very happy now. I had called several times and when I heard about there might be a possibility of an exchange I called and politely said I had reached the end of my patience with the EPG problems because it was causing missed timer events. They immediately offered an exchange.

Maybe even if your warranty has expired there's still hope if you contacted them before it expired?

I'm testing out a new theory on my 531's EPG.

I periodically lose the EPG, getting the "rebuilding" message. I've tried all the various reset codes, but the only one that works consistently is a complete reset of the unit.

The last time I lost the EPG, I did a reset of the unit, let it scan for channels, and entered the EPG information.

The next morning (as always when I do a reset) I get asked to pick my cable company from a list and things begin to populate.

Normally, things go well for about the next week, until the whole 8 days are loaded. It's then that things tend to get flaky with the EPG. It can disappear at any time.

This time I changed the way I select programs for recording.

In reading the manual for the new Pioneer 640 recorder (which does not have the EPG) I noticed that you can select up to 28 programs for recording. My 531 didn't have any limit on the number of programs I could select in the guide, so I decided to limit the number of recording selections in the guide, hoping this made a difference.

Normally, I select several programs for regular daily recording; another couple for weekly recording; and a mix of one time recording selections.

This time I limited myself to just selecting things to record once, and only selected programs for the next two days. My goal was to keep the number of selections under that 28 number mentioned in the 640's manual.

This has worked for me so far.

I am into two weeks of continuous EPG updates. I made it past the problem point of the 8 full days of listings.

My current theory (last of many) is that using the recorder to update daily (or weekly) program selections can over run the processing ability of the recorder if too many selections are made.

By eliminating recurring recordings, I'm eliminating the need for the recorder to update the guide as new days are added.

It's anybody's guess as to whether this will work long term, but it seems to be working now.

This continues to work for me. My 531 even survived the daylight savings time change without losing EPG data.

As of now, I have just 2 recurring recordings (Monday - Friday). I select all other programs daily, keeping the total number of recordings selected under 28 as shown on the schedule screen.

It's a bit of a pain to have to select programs daily, but I've gotten in the habit of selecting recordings for the next day.

If this is the price I have to pay to have a reliable EPG, it's worth it.

I echo what others have said about Pioneer's total lack of support for these recorders.

I'll vote with my dollars, avoiding Pioneer products in the future. No support, no more of my $.

Hi Neil...did you contact Pioneer during your warranty period? I got my 633 exchanged through Pioneer Canada and am very happy now. I had called several times and when I heard about there might be a possibility of an exchange I called and politely said I had reached the end of my patience with the EPG problems because it was causing missed timer events. They immediately offered an exchange.

Maybe even if your warranty has expired there's still hope if you contacted them before it expired?

I still have 1 month left on my warranty. If the exchange is for a DVR-640H without EPG then it's not much of a replacement. If however you are saying they have DVR-633H's where they have fixed the EPG issue (or at least have updated firmware) then I may be interested. Which are you referring to?

I still have 1 month left on my warranty. If the exchange is for a DVR-640H without EPG then it's not much of a replacement. If however you are saying they have DVR-633H's where they have fixed the EPG issue (or at least have updated firmware) then I may be interested. Which are you referring to?No, I'm not aware of any fixes to the 633 and I doubt they ever will if they were willing to exchange for a 640.

Why you wouldn't jump on the exchange is beyond me. You like that unreliable TVGOS?? Sure there is a trade-off of a few features, but the 640 is very reliable, handles all media types and has better pq at some if not all bitrates. I've never missed a recording which I sure can't say for the 633. The 640 is very also much more quiet and has a great Easy Timer for setting start/stop times from a grid which may not be quite as effortless as pressing TVGOS, but it's close, eliminates am/pm/date errors and is 100% reliable.

...I'll certainly inform all my friends and associates of how bad Pioneer and their support are and strongly urge everyone I know never to purchase another Pioneer product.I agree that Pioneer screwed up on the TVGOS implementation. And it looks like they've made a strategic decision that it's not worth their while trying to fix it. I actually think their offer to replace the unit with a new one, TVGOS-capable or not, is pretty generous. It shows that they've admitted their error and are doing what they can to make up for it. That's more than can be said for many other consumer electronics manufacturers.

I agree that Pioneer screwed up on the TVGOS implementation. And it looks like they've made a strategic decision that it's not worth their while trying to fix it. I actually think their offer to replace the unit with a new one, TVGOS-capable or not, is pretty generous. It shows that they've admitted their error and are doing what they can to make up for it. That's more than can be said for many other consumer electronics manufacturers.

I'll agree it's a fairly generous offer, but I'd be losing the EPG and DV Input. I can't believe Pioneer is incapable of resolving the issue. Probably goes back to the bad blood between Gemstar & Pioneer (Gemstar suing Pioneer) referred to earlier in the thread and it's more a case of not willing to resolve it rather than incapable of resolving it. It looks like my replacement deck will be the Panasonic DMR-EH55.

I'll agree it's a fairly generous offer, but I'd be losing the EPG and DV Input. I can't believe Pioneer is incapable of resolving the issue. Probably goes back to the bad blood between Gemstar & Pioneer (Gemstar suing Pioneer) referred to earlier in the thread and it's more a case of not willing to resolve it rather than incapable of resolving it. It looks like my replacement deck will be the Panasonic DMR-EH55.

I was exactly in the same position as you last spring, with a similar sentiment. I really wanted to like my 633, if it worked as advertised, or if at least Pioneer had been willing to fix it. Ultimately, I found joy in the Toshiba RD-XS35 (http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en&section=2&group=361&product=6356&category=).

Reading the "Wanna fix the Pioneer DVR-640H-S Timer Event Title Name Issue?" thread and finding the DVR-640H can't even record a title name when a program is recorded from the timer (either one entered in the timer settings like my old DVR-520H, or from the off-air title) only reinforces my decision to ditch Pioneer products and move to the Panasonic DMR-EH55.

I was even more convinced after downloading the manual for the DMR-EH55 from Panasonic's web site and reading the amount of detail they provided in the FAQ section on TVGoS (pages 67, 72-73) - Pioneer's DVR-633H manual (page 48) doesn't provide that sort of information. I also noticed the DMR-EH55 manual mentions a "computer chip" on page 67 (admittedly with "limited storage space") that stores the TVGoS data, so no more interminable noise from a HDD keeping you awake at night (well, one night in the bedroom with the DVR-633H and I was "ordered" to remove it, so it's now in the living room and you can hear it downloading EPG data from the kitchen) while it pounds itself into an early grave while storing TVGoS data like the DVR-640H.

I also noticed the DMR-EH55 manual mentions a "computer chip" on page 67 (admittedly with "limited storage space") that stores the TVGoS data, so no more interminable noise from a HDD keeping you awake at night (well, one night in the bedroom with the DVR-633H and I was "ordered" to remove it, so it's now in the living room and you can hear it downloading EPG data from the kitchen) while it pounds itself into an early grave while storing TVGoS data like the DVR-640H.The 640 doesn't have TVGOS and is completely silent when in standby, and nearly silent when in use. Obviously you really want TVGOS but just keep in mind the title name issue on the Pioneer functions just like the 633. It only affects timer events, (not manual recordings,) and IMHO is pretty minor compared to the HDD problems Panasonics have. I would much rather have to enter title names on a Pioneer than have to regularly reformat the HDD on a Panasonic thereby losing all the HDD contents. :( Also, I know Panasonic has a better implementation of TVGOS, but ask many users and you will find even with equipment that works perfectly you can't always depend on the guide info from Gemstar and when it doesn't come in you can lose recordings. The 640 doesn't have to depend on Gemstar and is therefore more reliable. I'm very happy with mine, so much so I bought a 2nd one.

It's not minor when over 90% of your recordings are time events. :-)

Yeah I know the Gemstar data is unreliable., and the fact you can't report errors to their web site shows they don't give a rat's ass about customer support. I found out when the name in the listings changed from "The Tonight Show" to "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" that the TVGoS programming implementation was so poor it couldn't recognize it as the same show and didn't record it. Also here in Canada it still lists a show as "The Monday Report with Rick Mercer". The show hasn't been on Mondays for 2 years and is now called simply "Rick Mercer Report". There's another show called "Royal Canadian Air Farce". The listings say John Morgan is on the show. I think he left it 4 years ago. :-)

...IMHO is pretty minor compared to the HDD problems Panasonics have. I would much rather have to enter title names on a Pioneer than have to regularly reformat the HDD on a Panasonic thereby losing all the HDD contents.

Thanks for that. A very important point and it shows you shouldn't assume anything. I just assumed any HDD would be able to run a defrag (optimize as Pioneer calls it in their manuals). I just scanned the Panasonic DMR-EH55 manual and find no mention of optimize or defrag - it would appear the only solution in that case would be a reformat of the HDD. Unbelievable - how could Panasonic miss something so basic? Oh well, I guess I wait for the "next generation" models before replacing the DVR-633H.

The DVD recorder in this thread, as well as just about every Pioneer DVD player there is, is subject to a class action lawsuit that Pioneer lost. This evening I received an email pointing me to a 16-page PDF at Pioneer's site detailing the steps needed to get a free firmware upgrade.

http://pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/381240225NoticeWithExhibitsDVDPlayers.pdf

I might very well do it, in hopes that the upgrade fixes this Disappearing EPG problem for me. I sitll have to do the manual TVGOS reset (detailed by me back on page ... 47? of this thread) about once a month, including this past weekend. Drag.

Potential problems with upgrade:
- will it wipe out the shows on my hard drive? burning all that to DVD would suck
- how long will it take for it to ship out and back, assuming there isn't a local service shop?

That document makes no mention of DVD Recorders or EPG. It's about a playback incompatibility issue. If the 531/533/633 is affected by this issue, the best you could get from them would be a firmware update that fixes that issue. The EPG problem would remain.

Answers to your specific questions:
- Firmware updates don't alter HDD contents as far as I know
- Recorders don't need to be sent in for firmware updates as far as I know

I must say that I never had an instance where my 531 failed to pay back any DVD. Has anyone experienced an incompatibility problem?

If the 531/533/633 is affected by this issue, the best you could get from them would be a firmware update that fixes that issue. The EPG problem would remain.

Not at all. The "best I could get from them" would be a firmware upgrade which just so happens to also fix the EPG problem along with the DVD compatibility problem that they got sued over. And gives me slimmer thighs. Any engineer will tell you that tiny stuff gets fixed all the time without bothering to announce it.

I understand that nobody (including Pioneer) has said that there's an announced fix for any of our EPG issues, I'm just alerting you all to the fact that there is now a mechanism for getting a firmware update for free -- and that a firmware update exists for this device.

I am taking the positon that the EPG problem will remain. You're free to believe otherwise.

I must say that I never had an instance where my 531 failed to pay back any DVD. Has anyone experienced an incompatibility problem?

I seldom do any playback on my Pioneer, but haven't encountered problems those few times I tried it. But I did get the email as well. It sounded to me like I would pass on the FW. It didn't sound to me like it was addressing the TvGOS issue at all.

Rick

But somebody ought to apply it on the off chance it does fix the TVGOS. I've got an idea. Let's get Mikey, ..er, ChrisC47 to try it. Whaddaya say, Chris?

I agree that Pioneer screwed up on the TVGOS implementation. And it looks like they've made a strategic decision that it's not worth their while trying to fix it. I actually think their offer to replace the unit with a new one, TVGOS-capable or not, is pretty generous. It shows that they've admitted their error and are doing what they can to make up for it. That's more than can be said for many other consumer electronics manufacturers.

I agree it is generous on their part to replace TVGOS models with 640s. JVC had many, MANY problems with their earlier models and never really satisfied customers. The service center fixes for the loading error were, for many people, temporary fixes at best. This defect with JVC machines was a LOT worse than the TVGOS situation on Pioneers--at least one could use the Pioneers whereas JVCs were out of commission until repaired.

I agree it is generous on their part to replace TVGOS models with 640s. JVC had many, MANY problems with their earlier models and never really satisfied customers. The service center fixes for the loading error were, for many people, temporary fixes at best. This defect with JVC machines was a LOT worse than the TVGOS situation on Pioneers--at least one could use the Pioneers whereas JVCs were out of commission until repaired.
Of all the bugs on every DVR ever made the JVC problem was and is by far the worst. JVC should have done a recall and saved many people alot of problems.

Check the threads on the new 640 model. Owners of that machine are facing similar operational issues with titling their recordings. Thus far, Pioneer has not come up with any answers.

Bottom line seems to be that the Pioneer units offer great pq, but also have a tendency to have operational quirks. These quirks don't tend to get fixed.

To me, this is more of a reflection of Pioneer's commitment to their customers than their design ability. Any manufacturer can have problems. The good ones fix them.

Of all the bugs on every DVR ever made the JVC problem was and is by far the worst. JVC should have done a recall and saved many people alot of problems.

Definitely. I had one, returned it for repairs, got it back then experienced the same problem after a few weeks. I could have sent it back, but by now I was out of warranty and JVC would have made me pay. No way. The way JVC handled this huge problem ultimately lost them future sales.

Check the threads on the new 640 model. Owners of that machine are facing similar operational issues with titling their recordings. Thus far, Pioneer has not come up with any answers.I don't want to suggest that the titling problem isn't real annoying, but the 2005 Pioneers work exactly the same and those of use who own them are making do. IMHO, it's a "nice to have" feature, not an actual flaw per se. As such I think it's unrealistic to expect the manufacturer to fix it.

I have a 531H which has experienced some of the classic problems reported in this forum and have managed to deal with them all, but now I have a new one. About two days ago, my EPG data disappeared completely...no, I don't mean the EPG comes up but there are no listings, I mean, when I press the TV Guide button, only the stuff on the left appears and all the menu and other static text that should appear on the right is just a bunch of multi-colored, chaotic dots...there's no text of any kind. The EPG template with selectable bar/menu on the top and listings at the bottom, etc. etc. just isn't there. Since I can't even go to the menu, I can't even attempt a system reset.

I have really loved the various features of this DVR, but this may be the last straw...thoughts, anyone?? I would (as always) greatly appreciate any help with this new, maddening problem.

...

I have really loved the various features of this DVR, but this may be the last straw...thoughts, anyone?? I would (as always) greatly appreciate any help with this new, maddening problem.

Pioneer is open this morning. I'd give them a call and talk to someone in technical support. I never experienced what you describe, just the TVGOS problem.

BTW, make sure you get a case number for the problem. It was only because my calls got documented (case number), that I eventually received a call to send it back (with Pioneer sending me a 640H-S in exchange).

The EPG template with selectable bar/menu on the top and listings at the bottom, etc. etc. just isn't there. Since I can't even go to the menu, I can't even attempt a system reset.
You can do a hard reset, however that will lose your timer rec programs.

With 531 on, press STOP and Standby/On buttons on front of machine. That should reset to factory settings, and give you a new TVG Setup screen.

Well, I've done the hard reset a couple of times, but I still get no TV Guide functionality at all...I push the "TV GUIDE" button on my remote and get nothing.

I called the Pioneer support line and they say to pack it up and send it to their service center in Columbus, OH...there's been no talk of whether they'll just replace it or what. Sigh.

... I called the Pioneer support line and they say to pack it up and send it to their service center in Columbus, OH...there's been no talk of whether they'll just replace it or what. Sigh.

Alas, I think it will just be repaired and sent back.

You do not note your location, but when I received the call to send it back with a 640 replacement sent upon it's receipt, I sent it to CA. OH would have been a lot closer, but I think it's the U.S. headquarters that send out replacements.

Please keep us informed how things are going after you get it back.

Well, I've done the hard reset a couple of times, but I still get no TV Guide functionality at all...I push the "TV GUIDE" button on my remote and get nothing.

I called the Pioneer support line and they say to pack it up and send it to their service center in Columbus, OH...there's been no talk of whether they'll just replace it or what. Sigh.

That's what happened to mine back in May. Corrupted HD. They will repair and you should have gotten it back by Christmas. Unbelievable that the Guide screens are kept on the HD and not in firmware. When the HD gets corrupted with random bits where the screen backgrounds are kept, it makes pretty colored confetti. Even though the HD may physically be fine you have to send it back to the factory since they say there is no way to reload the HD in the field.

Astoundingly poor design! You've got a drive there that will read DVDs and CDs. You can put software on DVDs and CDs and even download it through that new invention called the Internet. DUH! :rolleyes:

I have been losing the guide on my Pioneer 531 about every 9 days since I first found about about the "number reset". That's been about 6 months now. If I use the machine every day then it is exactly at 3:30AM on the 9th day that it disappears. But about every 6 weeks I go away and don't use it for up to 8 days. If I reset it just before I leave I then get up to 17 days between crashes. If I left after say 5 days then I might get 14 days. So I knew it had something to do with letting it rest or not letting it rest and it seemed to take 9 days from the time I started using it but if there was a several day rest before it was supposed to crash it "repaired" itself.

Another bug I had found was that it could lock up the entire machine if I edited too fast. (Once you learn the keys you can clip 3 minutes of commercials suprisingly fast.) It would also put holes in a recording if I was editing one program while it was recording another. Again, this occurred only if I was going too fast. If I would wait for the preview to start playing or the pause indicator to show before pressing another function, then no lockups and no holes. So what does this have to do with losing the EPG...

Well, I just went in to see if it was ready to record this evening and found that I had forgotten how much I had scheduled to record yesterday and today. It was sitting there with EPG off and when I turned it on it said the HD was full. Oops. Ok, no big deal. I lost the last part of the last thing I recorded. But wait! The EPG has no data! It was supposed to last until 1/4/07. And it isn't as simple as running out of space corrupted the EPG. I ran out once before a couple of months ago and no problem. I was away at the time and had scheduled more than I thought while I was gone. But when I came back it just said it was full, I erased some (moved to DVD) and the EPG continued to work normally.

Speculation: Could it be that the EPG tried to update and finding it had no HD space, corrupted the end. Now it won't work. But if left to itself it starts erasing it's own data for yesterday making room for new data and, knowing it is short on space, makes sure it has enough room before adding new data? Just and idea but I can see both the loss of recording data during editing of another program, Aydu's 28 recording limit, and a sudden corruption when the HD is full all being related. The TVGOS is running in the background so as not to interfere with the user events or recordings but it was written as if it was the only thing running on the machine and it needs HD access immediately when it asks for it. If the HD is busy doing something else when the EPG gets and update, the listing is corrupted and at some point the entire listing is corrupted when it tries to erase a bad listing and insert a new one? Therefore, if I edit slowly, keep the automatic scheduling to a minimum, don't start and stop too many recordings in a day, and maybe give it a couple of days rest every week, will the EPG keep running? That's the next thing I'm going to try.

I have a pioneer DVR 531. It was a year old in Nov. 06.After a short time started all of the EPG problems listed. I am using analog cable and I also have a Toshiba RD-XS34 Both are connected to a JVC TV model HD-P61R1U so I can compare operations at the same time. I have had both recorders for over a year. For the most part I prefer the Pioneer except for the Guide problem that started shortly after I got it.My Toshiba has not lost the guide at all over the same time. About 6 weeks ago I had something happen that only affected the Pioneer unit, in the box on the left of the Guide they had a notice that said " Are you having trouble receiving the guide " with instructions on how to reset it. After following the instructions my Guide has worked great. Also since then I now have advertising in the box's on the left side that change on a regular basis. These adds never appeared before on either recorder and still are only on the Pioneer. Has anyone else had this happen? It's strange that the adds aren't on the Toshiba, it's as though it received a fix from the program download. Let me know if you had this happen.
Larry

I have a pioneer DVR 531. It was a year old in Nov. 06.After a short time started all of the EPG problems listed. I am using analog cable and I also have a Toshiba RD-XS34 Both are connected to a JVC TV model HD-P61R1U so I can compare operations at the same time. I have had both recorders for over a year. For the most part I prefer the Pioneer except for the Guide problem that started shortly after I got it.My Toshiba has not lost the guide at all over the same time. About 6 weeks ago I had something happen that only affected the Pioneer unit, in the box on the left of the Guide they had a notice that said " Are you having trouble receiving the guide " with instructions on how to reset it. After following the instructions my Guide has worked great. Also since then I now have advertising in the box's on the left side that change on a regular basis. These adds never appeared before on either recorder and still are only on the Pioneer. Has anyone else had this happen? It's strange that the adds aren't on the Toshiba, it's as though it received a fix from the program download. Let me know if you had this happen.
Larry

I didn't noticed the reset notice, but have noticed I have rotating ads(2) now. I had to do a reset a couple of weeks ago. I seem to have less data at the moment however.

The EPG guide data is stored on the HD, maybe filling the HD will cause the guide to stop downloading, but it should be in reserved space, one would hope.

In my last post I referred to instructions on how to reset. The recommended reset referred to in my last post was, in Set-up Mode set the Zip Code to all zeros turn it off for at least 5 Min. then turn back on and go thru the set-up again putting in your correct Zip Code. Of course leave it off overnight to reload the Guide. This reset has worked better than anything I tried in the past. I haven't had a problem with my Pioneer since.

Machine is now on it's 24th day without getting the 'updating listings based on your changes' message. This message used to appear every 7-8 days. And as others have mentioned, advertisements appear in the ad box on the left side of the TVGOS screen.

Is it really possible to update the software via OTA broadcasts or is this just a fluke?

set the Zip Code to all zeros turn it off for at least 5 Min. then turn back on and go thru the set-up again putting in your correct Zip Code
Hi guys :)

Thanks lporter1, I hadn't heard that one before. And FtMgAl your timing information is veeeery interesting!

I'm the guy who made some long posts in this thread a year or so ago, about debug screens and reset procedures. And since then it's been working well, with a TVGOS (653274147) reset needed once every few months. A couple weeks ago I had to do the most recent reset and now I see advertising in TVGOS like Electric T-Bird reported. Crap :)

My unit's been pretty much hosed for a week now ... been through 3 resets and it doesn't seem to be recovering. I may try the 00000 reset tonight.

I should add that this TVGOS system is aggravated in my case by the fact that I view OTA channels only, relying on the local PBS OTA channel for the Gemstar TVGOS data, and that channel comes in pretty poorly for me. It's usually good enough and I get the data, but apparently not far from threshold ...

I have a pioneer DVR 531. It was a year old in Nov. 06.After a short time started all of the EPG problems listed. I am using analog cable and I also have a Toshiba RD-XS34 Both are connected to a JVC TV model HD-P61R1U so I can compare operations at the same time. I have had both recorders for over a year. For the most part I prefer the Pioneer except for the Guide problem that started shortly after I got it.My Toshiba has not lost the guide at all over the same time. About 6 weeks ago I had something happen that only affected the Pioneer unit, in the box on the left of the Guide they had a notice that said " Are you having trouble receiving the guide " with instructions on how to reset it. After following the instructions my Guide has worked great. Also since then I now have advertising in the box's on the left side that change on a regular basis. These adds never appeared before on either recorder and still are only on the Pioneer. Has anyone else had this happen? It's strange that the adds aren't on the Toshiba, it's as though it received a fix from the program download. Let me know if you had this happen.
Larry


I didn't notice any rest instructions, but I did start getting advertisinga few weeks ago. My TVGOS usually lasts about 3 weeks, it's been going fine now for over 4.

Go figure.

Rick

Just an update, I am still up and running fine since using the reset I posted. I still get advertising only on the Pioneer and not my Toshiba, that I can't figure. Larry

As others have mentioned, I also started getting ads about the first of the year. After months of resets every 9 days like clockwork except when I didn't turn it on for several days, it has operated perfectly for 47 days. I have tried to diligently follow my own suggestions (mostly SLOW DOWN when editing) but I know that I haven't been perfect yet there have been no more problems. That is until this morning.

It was recording a program when I went to TVGOS to check what was on next. I saw the ad for a "fix" for the first time but did not go to it. I only moved right to see what was on the same channel in an hour. It moved 30 minutes fine but then locked up. The remote is still working (I can open the DVD tray) indicating it isn't a total lockup like I have seen before. But I can't change the TVGOS screen or get out of it. The preview window at the top is still showing the current selection but the clock isn't changing in the preview though the front clock is working. In the past I have found that a lockup like this will reset with no damage when the recording stops automatically. I'll try to report later on whether that happens this time.

And here I thought "I" had solved the problems permanently.

Well it fixed itself but not as expected. After a couple of hours I turned the TV off with the Pioneer still locked on the TVGOS screen and went on with my life. When I returned later the recording was still in progress (I was recording several movies in a row without interruption) but the TVGOS screen was gone and the unit was operating normally. The recording was perfect as if nothing had happened. The TVGOS listings were still complete. The question now is did it corrupt the data so that TVGOS will disappear in 9 days? Time will tell.

I believe I've made it through almost a month now without any more TVGOS resets.

Well it fixed itself but not as expected. After a couple of hours I turned the TV off with the Pioneer still locked on the TVGOS screen and went on with my life. When I returned later the recording was still in progress (I was recording several movies in a row without interruption) but the TVGOS screen was gone and the unit was operating normally. The recording was perfect as if nothing had happened. The TVGOS listings were still complete. The question now is did it corrupt the data so that TVGOS will disappear in 9 days? Time will tell.

You're not alone with the problem. I've had that happen a couple of times to me as well. I was forced to hold the power button until the machine powered off and restarted it. This started a couple of weeks ago. I believe that there must have been some TVGOS update that's not working right.

I've had a total lockup only once so far while browsing the guide. Seems the downloading of the EPG data is a higher priority than processing user commands.

You're not alone with the problem. I've had that happen a couple of times to me as well. I was forced to hold the power button until the machine powered off and restarted it. This started a couple of weeks ago. I believe that there must have been some TVGOS update that's not working right.
In the past a full lockup meant even holding the power button did nothing and I had to unplug the power. Next time you might try just walking away and see if it corrects itself.

But something has changed with my machine. The TVGOS did NOT get corrupted this time so now it has been 61 days since the last EPG reset and I have gone back to my old habits of not waiting for screens to update while editing and still no problems (except if a recording is in progress while I'm editing I can sometimes lose a few seconds of the recording). I was told by Pioneer that the software was in the machine and not updatable but that seems questionable unless Gemstar was sending out bad data for a year and corrected it on New Years eve last year. That's also when I started getting ads. Did Gemstar somehow update the software in my machine? Whatever, I used to hate doing a reset every 9 days but now I LOVE THIS MACHINE!!!

Has anyone experienced a disappearing EPG since the first of the year?

In the past a full lockup meant even holding the power button did nothing and I had to unplug the power. Next time you might try just walking away and see if it corrects itself.

But something has changed with my machine. The TVGOS did NOT get corrupted this time so now it has been 61 days since the last EPG reset and I have gone back to my old habits of not waiting for screens to update while editing and still no problems (except if a recording is in progress while I'm editing I can sometimes lose a few seconds of the recording). I was told by Pioneer that the software was in the machine and not updatable but that seems questionable unless Gemstar was sending out bad data for a year and corrected it on New Years eve last year. That's also when I started getting ads. Did Gemstar somehow update the software in my machine? Whatever, I used to hate doing a reset every 9 days but now I LOVE THIS MACHINE!!!

Has anyone experienced a disappearing EPG since the first of the year?

I agree, I've been hesitant to jinx it by saying anything, but my TVGOS used to die just about every three weeks. I dont think it's dies since sometime around Chrismtmas, and for sure it hasn't died since end of Jan. I also started getting adds on TVGOS some time in Jan. as well.

So I agree, I think something has changed.

Rick

In the past a full lockup meant even holding the power button did nothing and I had to unplug the power. Next time you might try just walking away and see if it corrects itself.

But something has changed with my machine. The TVGOS did NOT get corrupted this time so now it has been 61 days since the last EPG reset and I have gone back to my old habits of not waiting for screens to update while editing and still no problems (except if a recording is in progress while I'm editing I can sometimes lose a few seconds of the recording). I was told by Pioneer that the software was in the machine and not updatable but that seems questionable unless Gemstar was sending out bad data for a year and corrected it on New Years eve last year. That's also when I started getting ads. Did Gemstar somehow update the software in my machine? Whatever, I used to hate doing a reset every 9 days but now I LOVE THIS MACHINE!!!

Has anyone experienced a disappearing EPG since the first of the year?

Nope, that has been very stable, but I do have the new issue of the machine going into "Timer adv" and not recording anything. The work around is to record the show before the one you want and then add on the time at the end. Of course, just wait until the time change...

Has anyone experienced a disappearing EPG since the first of the year?

Still going strong. Pioneer is now more reliable than my Comcast cable box. :rolleyes:

Still going strong. Pioneer is now more reliable than my Comcast cable box. :rolleyes:

Mine is still going strong as well!

Rick

I had a 531 that I returned 6 months ago due to the EPG problem. I was browsing craigslist and picked up a 633 cheap (guy didn't like it because it doesn't work with Dish) so I figured I could use it in manual mode, what the hey, I have missed the ability to record shows to HDD.

Well I see that possibly things might be better since the advertisements showed up, sure hope so. So far mine has set itself up and is working OK, but it is only 4 days. Anyway, I was browsing some other forums and found that this guy named wlfoote on CNET claims to have a work around for the EPG problem. Here is what he says:

"Before switching the recorder into standby, press HOME MENU or TV GUIDE and then STANDBY/ON. The TV monitor should go blank and the front panel display turn dim almost immediately. If instead the character display reads POWER OFF, wait for the action to complete, switch the recorder back on and repeat the procedure. When in recording mode before switching to (or turning off) the TV, I should likewise press HOME MENU or TV GUIDE but don't always remember to do so."

What I think he is saying is that he always leaves the machine with HOME MENU or TV GUIDE showing, except when watching recorded shows. Is that what you guys think he is saying?

RMR

Just another update. I posted on Jan 22, 07 that my Pioneer DVR-531 had fixed itself and I am happy to report that it has performed flawlessly since. The guide is always up to date.I am sure that something changed when the adds started showing up and they showed a fix in the guide for the loss of guide info. Larry

My EPG is working fine now (knock on wood). Perhaps the cause of the problems is many: TVGOS software glitches, contracts with cable companies, host channels, etc. I do give it a ton of time to download, although I don't think it really matters if it gets interrupted. I already had a cheap dvd player, so I do most of my viewing on that, freeing up the recorder for downloading.

But, a couple of times in the past two weeks, I've noticed that the panel display says "Timer Ready" and then nothing happens. The scheduled shows don't get recorded. If I turn the dvr off and then on and then go to standby, it starts recording the scheduled shows again.

Someone mentioned this in passing awhile back, but I never saw a response. Are other people having this issue or can someone direct to me the appropriate thread?

Thanks for any help or direction on this. I'm just worried that it will happen while I'm out of town and a whole week's worth of scheduled programs will not be recorded.

- burnspc
Burnspc,

Well I have been having generally good results with the new to me 633. So far I haven't had the dreaded black screen. Like you however I now have been getting this new problem where I find the machine stuck on "Timer Rdy". The times it has happened is when I have had back to back shows to record but the second one doesn't start, but instead just displays "Timer Rdy" on the unit. It stays in this mode until I hit the record stop button and then the recording will start if there is a show scheduled at the current time.

Had anyone seen this before the advertisements started showing up? Has anyone found a solution to this problem?

RMR

Like you however I now have been getting this new problem where I find the machine stuck on "Timer Rdy". The times it has happened is when I have had back to back shows to record but the second one doesn't start, but instead just displays "Timer Rdy" on the unit. It stays in this mode until I hit the record stop button and then the recording will start if there is a show scheduled at the current time.

Had anyone seen this before the advertisements started showing up? Has anyone found a solution to this problem?

RMR

I have also had almost the same problem when recording back-to-back programs on the same channel during NON-prime time. Such as mid-afternoon. I don't know what the display window is showing since I'm not at home. But my dvr-531 will record maybe the last 14 minutes of a 1 hour program and then record the next 2 hours just fine. There is a pattern in that it's always 14 minutes or ocassionally 31 minutes.

One poster suggested recording the program immediately before the program I want to record. That didn't work for me. I would then get an hour and 14 minutes of recording.

I have also had almost the same problem when recording back-to-back programs on the same channel during NON-prime time. Such as mid-afternoon. I don't know what the display window is showing since I'm not at home. But my dvr-531 will record maybe the last 14 minutes of a 1 hour program and then record the next 2 hours just fine. There is a pattern in that it's always 14 minutes or ocassionally 31 minutes.

One poster suggested recording the program immediately before the program I want to record. That didn't work for me. I would then get an hour and 14 minutes of recording.

One thing that is interesting is that the old black screen problem seems to be gone :rolleyes:, but now we seem to have this NEW PROBLEM (timer rdy) :mad: that pops up now and then. I think it proves that it is possible that TVGUIDE had the ability to correct the black screen problem all along but for whatever the reason, failed. I can see why Pioneer terminated their business dealings with them. I wonder if they will ever fix the "timer rdy" problem? I guess I should be thankful that things are moving in the right direction.

RMR

Same story here, amazing and pitiful. Since it was a couple of months old, I had the disappearing EPG often, commonly on the first weekend of every month, suggesting it was triggered by some periodic update. I just put up with it and learned to reset. But as with the previous posters, once the ads started showing up the disappearing EPG problem went away. I thought the problem had been fixed, and everything was fine and dandy in Pleasantville.

But now I'm getting the same timer rdy problem, with recordings starting a half hour late. I'd rather be forced to reset monthly than to lose programs, especially since Stargate SG-1 has some dynamite shows leading up to the end of the series, and Heroes is back. I've been getting 29 minute recordings, which means it's starting 31 minutes late. I don't think it matters whether the recording is set to start on time or a few minutes early.

I'm going to clean out my recording list, which is large, dump important stuff to DVD, then try compacting the disk, and last resort is to try a reset. If that doesn't fix it, I may just have to set up one long, manual recording for tonight. I won't be able to play music on hold with Pioneer until next week, but I'll pay attention to this forum and post anything I find out.

Aside: I really think this new problem deserves a thread of its own. It's difficult enough to search here, but limiting the search to titles helps a lot - if the title matches the thread. I'm glad I decided to check out this thread anyway, but not everyone will.

Something easy to try: turn Daylight Savings Time (DST) OFF and see if this helps. (Use the Setup Navigator menu.)

Knock on wood, have not had the timer ready problem. Machine has been dependable recording 10 TV programs a week.

Now I am noticing that some stations like ABC doesn't have any data beyond the current day.

One thing that is interesting is that the old black screen problem seems to be gone :rolleyes:, but now we seem to have this NEW PROBLEM (timer rdy) :mad: that pops up now and then. I think it proves that it is possible that TVGUIDE had the ability to correct the black screen problem all along but for whatever the reason, failed. I can see why Pioneer terminated their business dealings with them. I wonder if they will ever fix the "timer rdy" problem? I guess I should be thankful that things are moving in the right direction.

RMR

I didn't figure out what is causing the problem with only parts of a scheduled recording (using TVGOS) but I did find a solution. I tried setting the DVR531 to record the previous hour program, then added 120 minutes to the stop time (total of 3 hours) in order to get the two hour long programs I really wanted (Star Trek: Voyager on SpikeTV). Guess what I got! I did not get the program that I picked out of the TVGOS. The machine recorded the last 14 minutes of the 2nd hour and the last 46 minutes of the 3rd hour. Those partial recordings are about what I got when I scheduled two individual recordings for that two hour time slot. The one hour time slot always records the last 14 minutes of the hour. The other time slot sometimes recorded 46 minutes and other times just 7 minutes.

My solution to get recorded what I actually wanted was to manually set the date, time and channel. I did not use the TVGOS to select the program.

I also tried emptying the timer events but that did not help.

EDIT 5/16/2007: I spoke too soon. This week the daily 2 hour manually set recording is recording 1 hour and 54 minutes each day.

A year later and the DVR is working well.

My next thought is will the TVGOS data be available via cable after the OTA analog signals are turned off next year, will the TVGOS be shutoff then too?

The old Pioneer data is sent via telephone line to each PBS station, so it *should* work if Gemstar doesn't abandon that tel. delivery method???

The continued broadcast of the TVGOS signal is the least of the 531-533-633 concerns: I know this isn't the greatest news for owners of the Pioneer 2005 models, but as more time passes they are revealing themselves to be even flakier than they were in the beginning. More and more of these have been in and out of their first DIY or professional service, and now that some time has passed since those initial repairs they are proving not to really "stick", sometimes triggering additional problems down the road. The best advice I would give anyone with a functioning 2005 Pioneer would be to sell it on eBay asap while theres still a market for them, and spend the $200-300 proceeds to buy a new Pioneer 450 or 550. These are still available new at Canadian superstores and from some online and ebay dealers. The 540, 640, 450, 550 and 650 are so MUCH more reliable than the 531-533-633 it would make your head spin. (Another good alternative is Phillips 3575-3576 model.)

There is something incredibly dysfunctional in the overall 531-533-633 design that makes these units seem "haunted" compared to other Pioneers, or other DVRs period. In the beginning, it was widely assumed that their flawed implementation of TVGOS was the major source of problems and if that was repaired when it broke down, the units would be OK. Time has shown this not to be true in many cases. Replaced hard drives with fresh TVGOS on them seem to be failing as fast or faster than the original HDDs, and a surprising number of units that have had worn out burners replaced are turning up with a completely dead HDD interface a few weeks to a few months later. Service begets service begets service with these machines: its a domino effect.

This is very disheartening to see, but there isn't much that can be done. It seems there really is no more than a 50/50 chance of a 531-533-633 being repaired successfully for long term use. The TVGOS is the most obvious tip of the iceberg, when yours starts acting weird I *strongly* recommend selling it before it breaks down completely. Replace it with either a Phillips 3575 (3576), or a Canadian Pioneer 450-550-650, and you will be far happier in the long run. Better safe than sorry.

...will the TVGOS data be available via cable after the OTA analog signals are turned off next year, will the TVGOS be shutoff then too?

The old Pioneer data is sent via telephone line to each PBS station, so it *should* work if Gemstar doesn't abandon that tel. delivery method???

The real issue is the analog cutoff. The existing Gemstar infrastructure relies on equipment at the broadcast site that inserts the data into the VBI portion of the analog signal - but a digital signal uses completely different technology. Since the PBS engineers have already admitted that the Gemstar equipment is a "black box" that they have no control over, they're obviously not the folks who are responsible for replacing it with a unit that can inject the data into a digital signal.

Even if Gemstar does upgrade the injection equipment, there's no guarantee that the broadcast digital version of the signal will be downconverted back to the analog VBI signal expected by existing consumer equipment. The downconversion would have to take place at the cable company, or in a set-top box for people who receive their digital signals over the air (OTA). It doesn't seem likely to me that such a downconversion will happen.

If the broadcasters continue to give private-line analog feeds to the signal distributors (cable cos) that would solve the problem for the folks who receive their signals that way. But it would leave still OTA users "in the dark".

I haven't heard any definitive answers to these questions, so I'd not stake too much on the chance of the TVGOS signal continuing past next Feburary.

If the PBS stations don't provide an analog feed, then yah, I see that TVGOS would be done, less they move to the cable companies.

I am wondering the the picture on the analog feeds and conversions will always be Letterboxed?

Hi all ... I haven't been here in a while. Back in 2005-2006 I posted here quite a bit as we all struggled through this TVGOS mess.

I bought a Tivo HD yesterday and so finally have retired my Pioneer DVR-533H after 3+ years of regular use (since August 2005). I have needed to do a TVGOS reset on it a couple times a year, but otherwise it has worked fine.

In "retirement", I'm actually putting it in service at work (I work in the TV business and we have cable at our desks) so hopefully it'll continue to function for me. It's hunting for EPG data right now ...

For the record, here are some useful posts in this thread:

basic behavior of TVGOS when doing a power/stop reset
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6215573#post6215573

debug screens
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6447018#post6447018

how to reset just the TVGOS software
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6656805#post6656805
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7248092#post7248092

lots more TVGOS info (don't miss the tech page):
http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com

Well it sure has been quiet in here for a while. I was getting pretty good service from my 633 since the change that added the advertisements. I would occasionally get the "timer ready" problem and the recordings would get screwed up, but this was infrequent. Then about 2 weeks ago, almost all of the recordings were off. What I would see was that the recording would start 6 minutes late or it might end 6 minutes late. What a mess. I did a system reset and everything loaded back up ok and now it seems to be much better but I get the 6 minutes late thing showing up about every 5 shows. It even does this when I program with the timer and not the EPG. Yeah, it sucks but I really like the EPG system and it doesn't seem that there are good alternatives except for Tivo or getting satellite and using their dvrs. I just don't like the idea of the monthly fees, but maybe I'll break down. Maybe I'll just limp along and wait till the digital conversion is over and see if anything comes out then.

How are others doing with their Pioneer 531 533 and 633s?

RMR

Well it sure has been quiet in here for a while. I was getting pretty good service from my 633 since the change that added the advertisements. I would occasionally get the "timer ready" problem and the recordings would get screwed up, but this was infrequent. Then about 2 weeks ago, almost all of the recordings were off. What I would see was that the recording would start 6 minutes late or it might end 6 minutes late. What a mess. I did a system reset and everything loaded back up ok and now it seems to be much better but I get the 6 minutes late thing showing up about every 5 shows. It even does this when I program with the timer and not the EPG. Yeah, it sucks but I really like the EPG system and it doesn't seem that there are good alternatives except for Tivo or getting satellite and using their dvrs. I just don't like the idea of the monthly fees, but maybe I'll break down. Maybe I'll just limp along and wait till the digital conversion is over and see if anything comes out then.

How are others doing with their Pioneer 531 533 and 633s?

RMR

My Hard Drive got corrpted a while back. No resests helped. After researching the problem I arrived at the conlcusion that I needed a special remote, and a spceial CD with the original firmward to recover the hard disk. I ended up lettting it die. It was at point that I couldn't set any timer recordings.

Oh well -

Rick

My 531 is still chugging along after three years, occasionally I get the "EPG" front panel display and if I don't notice it my timed programs don't get recorded. This does seem somehow linked to the time of year- it happens in April, August and December. Of course, I'm in the minority here because I actually don't like the TVGOS, the first thing I did was trick it into not loading its data so the hard drive would settle down and I could input all timer settings manually. Not using the TVGOS is what's probably saved my hard drive from crashing. On the other hand, I'm on my second 531 burner...

The 633 and 533 units I've had were not so pleasant. Their HDDs corrupted, and despite every trick outlined on every board and thread, any attempt at repairing these hard drives or replacing them with new drives with fresh software resulted in another failure shortly after. The machines are very resistant to repair because of their insanely complicated TVGOS implementation. Since the TVGOS-reloading process alone is enough to drive anyone to drink, nevermind the likelihood of failure, these are the only Pioneer models I feel are not really worth repairing. Don't buy a broken 633 on eBay for $150 thinking you got a bargain because you "know how to fix it cheap": trust me, you'll be re-listing it two weeks later and taking a $50 loss on it.:(

How are others doing with their Pioneer 531 533 and 633s?RMR

My 531 has been doing just fine, except for a total lockup last Saturday. The orginal HD is holding up well. The TVGOS seems to be working ok. My 3 - 7 scheduled recordings a week are reliable. The DVD player works well.

Now that I have said that, it will probably explode.

Someone asked how others are doing.

I first found this forum in 2005 when my new 531 couldn't load the EPG. Thanks to you wonderful people I learned that connecting it through the digital cable box was the problem. After that the host station for the EPG had major issues. Again this forum had the details on how to enter the service mode and monitor who was the host and how to reset the EPG. After TVGOS changed hosts here in Toronto, the system has been working flawlessly since. That's about 3 yrs of not having to mess with it. I haven't even defragged the drive yet which is something I should have done but I hate to invite trouble. The bonus of this box is that sometimes my PC will destroy a DVD-RW and won't recognize it anymore while the 531 will reinitialize it without a hiccup and make it reuseable again.

I'm also not a fan of the TVGOS implementation and the constant grinding of the harddrive in the unit but it has held up it's end. but I'm sure less tech savy people returned these things by the truckload. Now if I could only get my logitech remote to update my new settings.......

Skip.

Someone asked how others are doing.

I first found this forum in 2005 when my new 531 couldn't load the EPG. Thanks to you wonderful people I learned that connecting it through the digital cable box was the problem. After that the host station for the EPG had major issues. Again this forum had the details on how to enter the service mode and monitor who was the host and how to reset the EPG. After TVGOS changed hosts here in Toronto, the system has been working flawlessly since. That's about 3 yrs of not having to mess with it. I haven't even defragged the drive yet which is something I should have done but I hate to invite trouble. The bonus of this box is that sometimes my PC will destroy a DVD-RW and won't recognize it anymore while the 531 will reinitialize it without a hiccup and make it reuseable again.

I'm also not a fan of the TVGOS implementation and the constant grinding of the harddrive in the unit but it has held up it's end. but I'm sure less tech savy people returned these things by the truckload. Now if I could only get my logitech remote to update my new settings.......

Skip.

Mine is still doing good. Harddrive and the DVD drive are still working with weekly recordings. I've had two runaway records fill up the HD and cause the EPG to stop updating, in the last year however.

I am wondering if the EPG is going to survive the DTV switch over and Comcast's digitialization of a good portion of their analog channals.

After 5 years or so of reliable service (except for the EPG nuisances), last week my Pioneer DVR-533 started hanging up.

I was deeply involved in this Pioneer EPG TVGOS thread back in 2005 or so, and again last year (in other threads) when the digital shutdown changed things, as we all tried to get the blasted machine to work. Other than those periods, though, it has in fact worked fine -- and yes I am getting TVGOS data, via cable, reinserted in analog VBI by my local cable headend.

My particular symptoms now are that I found the machine stopped doing its scheduled recording four days ago. I can not get into TVGOS. I power cycle it, and it seems to work, but after 90 seconds or so it hangs up, won't even change channels.

Curiously, as long as I do it during the first 90 seconds, I can get into the HDD recordings listing, or the Home Menu screens, do whatever in there, exit, and then it doesn't crash until ANOTHER 90 seconds later. I can even edit recordings and copy to DVD, although when it's copying I have to be careful to leave it in "Home Screen" mode and not on the tuner. It seems to only crash if left in regular tuner mode. Well, at least I can get my recordings out.

Thinking it might be some bad VBI coming in, I disconnected the cable signal and the problem persists. If I change the tuner to select the "L2" or "L3" input, it's fine. If I select "L1", it dies. And "L1" happens to be the only input of the three that I have active video on! So right now my theory is that if the thing is "tuned" to anything that has active video (even black), it dies within a minute or so, perhaps because it's choking on VBI decode or something. So I leave it on L2 or L3 and it keeps going while I burn the discs. Fascinating.

Can't ever get into the TVGOS menu. Pressing that button is always the instant kiss of death (as is entering it via the home menu).

I tried the hard reset (via front panel buttons: press and hold stop-record, then press power button) but it didn't do anything.

Working on it ... If I can't recover it, at least it's been a good 5 years.

After 5 years or so of reliable service (except for the EPG nuisances), last week my Pioneer DVR-533 started hanging up.

I was deeply involved in this Pioneer EPG TVGOS thread back in 2005 or so, and again last year (in other threads) when the digital shutdown changed things, as we all tried to get the blasted machine to work. Other than those periods, though, it has in fact worked fine -- and yes I am getting TVGOS data, via cable, reinserted in analog VBI by my local cable headend.

My particular symptoms now are that I found the machine stopped doing its scheduled recording four days ago. I can not get into TVGOS. I power cycle it, and it seems to work, but after 90 seconds or so it hangs up, won't even change channels.

Curiously, as long as I do it during the first 90 seconds, I can get into the HDD recordings listing, or the Home Menu screens, do whatever in there, exit, and then it doesn't crash until ANOTHER 90 seconds later. I can even edit recordings and copy to DVD, although when it's copying I have to be careful to leave it in "Home Screen" mode and not on the tuner. It seems to only crash if left in regular tuner mode. Well, at least I can get my recordings out.

Thinking it might be some bad VBI coming in, I disconnected the cable signal and the problem persists. If I change the tuner to select the "L2" or "L3" input, it's fine. If I select "L1", it dies. And "L1" happens to be the only input of the three that I have active video on! So right now my theory is that if the thing is "tuned" to anything that has active video (even black), it dies within a minute or so, perhaps because it's choking on VBI decode or something. So I leave it on L2 or L3 and it keeps going while I burn the discs. Fascinating.

Can't ever get into the TVGOS menu. Pressing that button is always the instant kiss of death (as is entering it via the home menu).

I tried the hard reset (via front panel buttons: press and hold stop-record, then press power button) but it didn't do anything.

Working on it ... If I can't recover it, at least it's been a good 5 years.

Does kinda sound like bad guide data. My machine has been doing well, except for two cases of total machine lockup while recording. Both times I held the power button in until the machine shutoff and it fully recovered upon power up.

AHA! After 3 weeks of occasionally trying to fix this, I decided today to search back in this thread for my own posts about this machine. I'd spent way too much time on this a few years ago and I knew I had written up some posts about various resets.

So, I posted above:
I tried the hard reset (via front panel buttons: press and hold stop-record, then press power button) but it didn't do anything.

And I got THAT from somebody else, and it was wrong! The hard reset method is to A) hold the Stop button and then B) press the Power button. The stop button and the stop-record button are not the same thing!

I had typed up this hard reset sequence in this 2005(!) post. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6183070#post6183070) After doing that hard reset, the machine seemed to recover, I was able to get into the TVGOS and do a TVGOS reset*. It's gathering data now -- it's already resynced the clock. I'll know in another day if it really worked.

As you said, it was probably corrupted TVGOS data, so I knew I just needed to get it to do a hard reset ...

* To do "TVGOS reset": TV Guide -> Setup -> arrow down to "System Settings" but DON'T select -> enter code 6532 74147

Update 2 days later: it's baaaaack! Woohoo! It wiped out my channel number reassignments (long story) but I can redo those. And it kept all my scheduled recordings!

My unit seems to be unable to receive any guide data since last month when I noticed it. The EPG indicator is on while powered off, but little hard drive activity, no tv listings and the ads are the default Welcome to TV Guide ones. Wonder if they are finally switching off the feed. Is anybody else's still used and working?

It seems from earlier posts you are familiar with all the technical details of Pioneer TVGOS recorders, so I'll assume you already tried the various resets and whatnot that sometimes restore TVGOS after a random malfunction. If so, most likely your problem is the TVGOS signal has been dropped in your area. It vanished from off-air broadcasts when we made the switch to DTV, and has slowly been dumped by one cable system after another as they shift towards digital QAM. Its kind of a hassle for them to jump thru the hoops of analog>digital>analog TVGOS conversion and patching it back in to the host channels, and they have no real incentive to do it, so its been phased out in many areas.

You could put a call in to your cable customer service office to request they turn TVGOS back on, but the process of getting thru to someone who even knows what you're talking about is difficult. You might want to look at the AVS Panasonic TVGOS recorder threads for detailed info on how to speak to your cable reps on this topic. Most Pioneer TVGOS recorder owners gave up on their machines long ago due to breakdowns and other issues, but the Panasonic owners are like rabid dogs whose bone is being threatened: they really keep the pressure on to extend TVGOS service as long as possible. You want help with your TVGOS service, you need to talk to a Panasonic owner.:)

If it turns out the pilot signal is no longer available to you, its probably a good idea to deactivate the TVGOS feature and use your Pioneer under full manual timer control (to avoid the endless EPG alert on the front panel causing random operational problems). In case you haven't already bookmarked the procedure, here it is again (courtesy AVS member Sean Nelson):

*************************

IF THE TVGOS SIGNAL HAS SIMPLY STOPPED IN YOUR BROADCAST AREA, AND YOUR PIONEER 531, 533 or 633 IS OTHERWISE WORKING NORMALLY:

All you need to do is tell the recorder that TVGOS service is gone and it needs to stop trying to use it. This can be a little tricky, because the recorder is engineered around the fundamental assumption that it will always have a TVGOS signal to rely on. This is the number one problem with the 531-533-633: they cannot let go of TVGOS, even when you turn it "off" you have to remain vigilant against the machine over-ruling your instructions and reactivating TVGOS on its own, usually in the middle of the night while you're asleep. When the Pioneer TVGOS cannot find a pilot signal, it grinds the hard drive relentlessly until it corrupts itself and becomes one huge headache to deal with. This is what you must do to prevent that:

1. Do a hard reset of the recorder: turn it on, wait for the "Please Wait" alert to go away, then hold down the "STOP REC" button on the front panel. While holding down "STOP REC", press the "STANDBY/POWER" button and hold both buttons until the recorder shuts down. If it does not restart by itself, wait five minutes and then turn it back on.

2. The recorder will have cleared all of its settings and should present you with the initial settings menu for the clock, etc. If it does not, press the Home Menu key on the remote and select the onscreen Initial Setup button. Enter all the setup information (date, time, etc.). At some point in this process the setup screen for TVGOS should appear- if it does not, press the Home button on your remote and select the onscreen TV Guide button. With the opening TV Guide Setup screen showing (the one with a picture of a television on the left), press the remote's enter button to begin setup.

6. Choose "Canada" as your location.

7. Set Postal Code to A 0(Zero) A 0(Zero) A 0(Zero)

8. Choose Cable

9. Choose No Cable Box

10. Confirm Settings OK and exit.

11. Immediately go back into TVGOS Setup and repeat steps 6 thru 10 a second time, to be sure your choices "stick".

12. Press the Timer Rec button on the remote and set a recurring manual timer entry: you MUST do this to lock TVGOS in manual mode, otherwise it will begin searching for a pilot signal the moment you power off the recorder. If you have a show you normally record every day or every week anyway, thats ideal, if you don't normally do this then just set a random odd time like 5:00am to 5:15am every Wednesday. Then just delete this "dummy" recording every week afterwards.

BTW, the manual timer setting screen takes some getting used to if you have previously only used the point-and-click automatic TVGOS timer grid. Some of the data entry fields (date, time, channel) are only set using the numeric keypad on the remote. Other fields (AM/PM, input, recording speed, once-daily-weekly) are set using the left and right arrow keys. You navigate up and down the entry fields using the up and down arrow keys.

13. You're done! TVGOS will stop spinning the HDD and stop searching for the now-gone TVGOS signal. When you want to set a timer recording, pressing the "timer rec" button will bring you directly into the manual timer screen. When you turn the recorder off, it will turn completely off. There should be no more alert displays due to TVGOS.

Wonder if they are finally switching off the feed. Is anybody else's still used and working?Our Pioneer 533 and 633 machines are still getting EPG data just up the road from you here in Vancouver.