I have a Pioneer 531 that has worked flawlessly, up to this point. I use analog cable and the EPG downloaded perfectly, the 1st night the unit was connected. The guide continued to populate daily until the multiple days of programming was available.

Last night, the guide information disappeared, replaced by a message that the guide information was rebuilding based on the setup changes I had made. 24 hours was the projected timeline for having guide information available again.

The unit shows the EPG indicator on the front panel, when powered off. All programs I had set for recording are still present and continue to record, just no guide.

Anyone else have their guide disappear unexpectedly? I have not experienced any power outages.

Any ideas as to why the recorder thinks I've changed my setup?

I'm stumped.

Anyone else have their guide disappear unexpectedly?
Any ideas as to why the recorder thinks I've changed my setup?

I'm stumped.

I had the exact same problem with my 633. After 1 month of flawless operation, I lost all the EPG data. Like you, all recordings were still there. I left it overnight, and it could not download the EPG data. I reset it using the hold Stop button and press power button, and went through the setup again. Overnight, it then downloaded the EPG data properly, and all previous recording were still in place.

Two weeks later, everything is fine.

I suspect at some point the EPG data got corrupted, and the system by default can't read the existing data or download new data. Another theory is that the cable provider changed some setting on their host system, and the unit is not smart enough to recognize it.

I redid the setup. See what happens tonight.

Redoing the setup had no effect. To make sure the recorder was available for the downloads, I erased my list of recordings so it would sit waiting for the next download.

With that failing, I decided to reset the unit. The manual is a bit unclear about how to do this, I found out. The instructions are to hold down stop and press the standby or power button. What the manual doesn't tell you is that this has to be done on the front panel controls, not the remote.

This makes sense, as it prevents unintentional resets by someone inadvertently hitting the wrong button combination on the remote, but it would have been nice to have the manual cover this.

After a reset, the unit presented all the setup screens as did when it first came out of the box. After sitting in EPG status the rest of the day and following night, I now have guide information back.

We'll see if it continues to populate additional days without losing the guide information.

I set up a few one time recordings during the day to see if that has any effect.

Update - The EPG loaded during the night after resetting the recorder. All data loaded fine until all 8 days were fully loaded.

The EPG was working fine last night and is again totally gone this morning. Same message indicating that it would start rebuilding within 24 hours based on my setup change. No changes have been made to either the recorder setup or my cable service.

Wrote to Pioneer service again with this updated information. Seems to be some incompatibility between the EPG and my cable system, if nobody else is having this loss of information occurring on a regular basis.

All recordings are proceeding as they were setup prior to the guide being lost.

Sure would be nice to know if it is the Pioneer; the EPG; or my cable provider that is buggy.

The only consistency I've found so far is that the problem seems to recur regularly and that the tech support people I have available to me through Pioneer or my cable provider know nothing about nothing.

Fortunately, I got my recorder at WalMart, so it this doesn't get resolved, I can easily return.

Seems to be some incompatibility between the EPG and my cable system, if nobody else is having this loss of information occurring on a regular basis.

I have not lost any EPG information on my Panasonic E-500 since my recorder started downloading the information over 3 months ago.

The problem lies with your recorder, your cable provider or the channel broadcasting the EPG data. The TV Guide EPG system itself has been functioning perfectly ever since I have started using it.

RG

It's definitely not necessary to erase your scheduled recordings to allow the guide to download. So far I've had this problem once in the 4 weeks my Pioneer 433. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6111285&&#post6111285).

I have not lost any EPG information on my Panasonic E-500 since my recorder started downloading the information over 3 months ago.

The problem lies with your recorder, your cable provider or the channel broadcasting the EPG data. The TV Guide EPG system itself has been functioning perfectly ever since I have started using it.
Regardless, I think the programming is reprehensible in general application. If the EPG goes, there should have been some backup on the HD of the general settings. In addition, it should have dawned on Gemstar that if you lose the data you still have the time and channels to record. It should almost set the program to be a "manual timer" in that regard. Thus recording Monday night football next Monday would set in the database an entry for channel 7, 9pm - 12:30am, end of story. You don't need the TV Guide info to remember this once it's programmed in.

But I do agree with you rgazzara about Panasonic. They have had their quirks but from what I've read they seem to have their act together much more than the rest in the DVD-DVR category.

I had the exact same problem with my 633. After 1 month of flawless operation, I lost all the EPG data. Like you, all recordings were still there. I left it overnight, and it could not download the EPG data. I reset it using the hold Stop button and press power button, and went through the setup again. Overnight, it then downloaded the EPG data properly, and all previous recording were still in place.

Two weeks later, everything is fine.

I suspect at some point the EPG data got corrupted, and the system by default can't read the existing data or download new data. Another theory is that the cable provider changed some setting on their host system, and the unit is not smart enough to recognize it.

My Pioneer lots its EPG data again. I left it for 1.5 days, but it didn't make any progess so I reset it. It then loaded the EPG data as per normal. Strangely enough, if you use the EPG Search functions, it can find shows, it just can't display them in the TV listings...

I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with recording to DVD, or leaving a recordable DVD in the system. For me, it seems like the problem starts a couple of days after copying something to a DVD. Can anyone else concur?

My recorder lost the EPG with not recordable disc in the machine and nothing had been copied to a removable disc since the guide reloaded.

I use the recorder mainly for time shifting and don't burn discs very often.

Based on the timing of the loss of the guide (when all 8 days are fully loaded) I'm suspecting that there is some incompatibility in the way the Pioneer handles either adding new days to the EPG, or updating the daily/regularly scheduled recordings.

It seems that recurring programs are updated on the EPG every day when new information is downloaded. You see the recording symbol on the guide, as you page through the days. It might corrupt things if it has problems finding a program in this update program, interpreting this as a change in setup.

Who knows for sure? It seems to be sloppy programming somewhere in the information chain.

It's definitely not necessary to erase your scheduled recordings to allow the guide to download. So far I've had this problem once in the 4 weeks my Pioneer 433. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6111285&&#post6111285).

That's interesting to read. When I read the original poster's subsequent post where he says he erased the timer recodings from the list, I was thinking that is what kept his unit from downloading the guide.
As has been mentioned all over discussions about the TVG, the units must be left off completely for no less than 24 full hours, with no turning on to check it, or timer recordings set, particularly if they are for shows during the 24 standby period, to download the data. I guess Pioneer must've did what Panasonic and everyone else didn't, actually improve how their unit handles the guide.

I guess Pioneer must've did what Panasonic and everyone else didn't, actually improve how their unit handles the guide.

That may be a bad guess ....

Try looking at the "help wanted" portion of the corporate TV Guide On Screen website, http://www.tvgos.com/company/careers.asp

It's pretty clear that the people writing the embedded software for the TV Guide "EPG" for ALL the manufacturers, are in fact employees of TV Guide !!!!

Blaming Pioneer, Panasonic, Toshiba, Sony or whoever, for a particular quirk in a given implementation of the EPG is probably misplaced. I suspect that each version is tweaked for a given manufacturers units (sometimes poorly) by a "project group" working at TV Guide.

Sad to say, but it appears the TV Guide EPG woes being suffered by many people on various machines, appears to be the result of lousy American programmers.

How nice ......

I lost the EPG five times in four weeks, and finally gave up and took the unit back to Walmart. I loved it when it worked correctly, but finally got tired of doing the reset and waiting for the guide to come back. I wondered if anything in what I did could have caused the problem. I made sure not to use my TiVo remote near the Pioneer, in case there was some overlap in IR codes. The only other thing I am sure I did was to change two incorrect channel numbers each time I redid the setup. But that is a provided function to change the channel number tuned.

I am going to retry with a different box, but after reading that others had similar results, I am not hopeful that a different box/same model will do any better. If not, I will surely call Pioneer often. When I called before, I was told they had never heard of this kind of problem!

After leaving my timer recordings in tact, the EPG reloaded over night. Strange thing is that this time the Guide appeared with all 8 days of information.

Still waiting for a response from Pioneer customer "service". I updated them on the situation and asked for a date when I could expect a response.

I'm not holding my breath.

I guess Pioneer must've did what Panasonic and everyone else didn't, actually improve how their unit handles the guide.

I heartily disagree. Based on the numerous posting by Pioneer owners of the new DVD recorders that their EPG is malfunctioning, and now reports from Toshiba users that their units' EPG are having problems with scheduled timer recordings, I'd say it was Panasonic who have the best implementation of the TV Guide EPG. The EPG on my Panasonic E-500 has performed perfectly since I activated it more than 3 months ago.

RG

I heartily disagree. Based on the numerous posting by Pioneer owners of the new DVD recorders that their EPG is malfunctioning, and now reports from Toshiba users that their units' EPG are having problems with scheduled timer recordings, I'd say it was Panasonic who have the best implementation of the TV Guide EPG. The EPG on my Panasonic E-500 has performed perfectly since I activated it more than 3 months ago.
Considering that Panasonic allegedly allows you to turn the bloody TVGOS off with relative ease, my vote goes to the Panasonic for the Golden Toilet award in the "crapping on consumers" category.

Guide was fully functional yesterday - gone this morning. Seems to be in a death spiral - one day on - one day off.

We'll see what tomorrow brings.

I love the recorder, and when the EPG is loaded, it works as advertised.

Maybe the reason for the 8 day guide is for you to program ahead, knowing that the guide won't likely be available the next day.

Considering that Panasonic allegedly allows you to turn the bloody TVGOS off with relative ease, my vote goes to the Panasonic for the Golden Toilet award in the "crapping on consumers" category.

You know, I'm not so sure that Panasonic allows one to "turn off" the TV Guide EPG as easily as you suggest. I have not tried to bypass the EPG so I can't speak to this, but I would like to hear from others who have successfully disabled the EPG on their Panasonic recorder.

When the EPG is disabled in Panasonic DVD recorders, what happens? Does it periodically reappear as it does on the Pioneer recorders?

This information may come in handy if the EPG on my E-500 begins to "act up" and needs to be "put down", and would be useful for other Panasonic DVD recorder owners.

RG

Maybe the reason for the 8 day guide is for you to program ahead, knowing that the guide won't likely be available the next day.

Not likely. But a nice try. :D

When the EPG is disabled in Panasonic DVD recorders, what happens? Does it periodically reappear as it does on the Pioneer recorders?

No, it doesn't reappear. Well, unless the machine is reset.

No, it doesn't reappear. Well, unless the machine is reset.

luckylisp,

Which Panasonic model do you have?

You have successfully disabled the TV Guide EPG?

How did you do it?

Has this caused you any problems (e.g., can't use RF input, loss of manual timer recording, etc.)?

Tell us your experiences.

Thanks,

RG

Another report from the field ...

I've had my 533 for about a month. Due to poor reception of the one channel that carries TVGOS data in my market (no cable/DBS for me, just free OTA), I didn't actually get the EPG working until a few days after purchase -- it started working on August 11th, I believe. Lo, it stopped working yesterday or the day before -- exactly a month later. My guess is there's a bug that hits after one month. Will I have to reset this thing once a month? We'll see.

It doesn't have anything to do with burning a disc, because I have yet to do that. It might have something to do with having a disc in (like a CD) or being in disc mode instead of HDD mode, because that's what it's often doing (despite the p*ss-poor CD playing behavior).

Some things that weren't clear in previous posts:

1. You WILL lose your programmed recording events. In other words, the unit's memory of of shows that it is supposed to record in the future will be wiped out. So you might want to write down the regular shows that you had programmed before doing the reset. Even though you can't see the TV listings, the scheduled shows are still in there.

2. With the unit ON, hold the front panel's Stop button down and hit the Power button. That does the reset. Starting with the unit ON was the missing step.

3. After a "Wait" cycle or two, hit the TVGuide button and you'll get the "hi, I'm TVGOS" screen, and then you redo your setup there.

4. Your previously recorded shows will persist through the reset. In other words, shows that you already recorded and are on your hard drive will continue to be there.

I'll find out overnight how it does, but I'm confident it'll be just fine. Then it'll just be a matter of seeing how often I have to do this, and if there's a way to recover without wiping out my scheduled recordings ...

One overnight down, no EPG yet :(

1. You WILL lose your programmed recording events. In other words, the unit's memory of of shows that it is supposed to record in the future will be wiped out. So you might want to write down the regular shows that you had programmed before doing the reset. Even though you can't see the TV listings, the scheduled shows are still in there.This statement seems contradictory to me. "You WILL lose your programmed recording events" and "the scheduled shows are still in there" seem to be saying two opposite things. Which is it?

When I lost the guide listings on my 533, the recordings I had scheduled via the TV Guide software were still visible using the EPG "Schedule" screen, and they did in fact record properly when the scheduled time came. Although the "Listings" screen displayed no data, the previously scheduled recordings shown in the "Schedule" screen still showed the original detailed descriptions. I did not reset my DVR at any point during the listings outage, and the guide data came back on it's own in a couple of days.

Thanks Sean, good to know that it might come back by itself after a couple days. I believe I waited two full days before doing the reset, but it might have been less.

By "scheduled shows are still in there", I meant that after you experience the problem with the missing EPG listings, the scheduled recordings are still shown. After you do the reset they're gone.

Is it possible that when you lost your EPG data, it was exactly one month after you'd bought the unit?

One overnight down, no EPG yet :(

You'll need a full 24 HOURS, with it off, and no peeking. No timer recordings set (that would turn the unit on) during the 24 hr download period.


No peeking! ;)

My guide vanishes about every other day, with the "rebuilding based on your setup change" message.

The only thing I have done is to use the guide to program shows.

I wonder if turning off the channels I don't record from in the EPG would help. For example, I will never record anything off the shopping or news channels. I wonder if the amount of daily recording and playing time is preventing the guide from completing it's updates, resulting in some internal trigger to rebuild the guide?

I don't record an absurd amount on a daily basis, but every hour of recording equals about an hour of viewing, so the machine is not available for EPG updates about twice the amount of taping time.

Perhaps by turning off unused channels, I might shorten the update cycle when the recorder is churning away hour after hour, when in standby mode.

If I ever get the EPG back, I will try to turn off all but those channels I record from and see if that bring any more stability to the EPG.

The EPG is a great idea that gets killed by a bad implementation by either Pioneer or TVGOS.

One quick thought, Have those of you with this problem left the TVGOS set at default where it comes up on the screen when you turn the recorder on or have you disabled that feature so that the guide only comes on when you press the button for the guide?

Mine defaults to the Guide on when the recorder is powered up - default setting.

Last night my EPG lost its "Listings" data again (no tv schedule show in the grid display). However, this time I totally ignored the fact, and used the Search function in the EPG to setup to record a bunch of shows anyways. This morning, as it was taping a show, I decided to check if the Listings were available, and to my surprise, it was there! The previous two times this happened, the Listings never reappeared, not even after 2 days.

Here's my growing list of observations:
1. The only time the Listings reappeared without a reset was when the TVGOS was set to come on everytime the Pioneer is turned on.
2. Even though the "Listings" is empty, and the EPG data is still there, can be accessed through the "Search" screen.
3. Everytime I've lost the "Listings" its been a couple of days after using the DVD drive. I suspect if the Pioneer is in DVD drive mode during some type of EPG downoad, it causes corruption.

I lose my EPG without burning DVDs. I rarely burn to disc and the EPG comes and goes every couple of days.

I have the EPG today and turned off all the channels I don't plan to record from. See if this results in less updating and a more reliable EPG.

I have not tried the search function when the EPG has been lost, but I will try that if (or should I say when) I lose the EPG again.

I noticed that Toshiba recorders have problems with both getting and losing the EPG data as well. Seems Panasonic is the only one that has managed to implement the EPG without losing the listing periodically.

Ironically, the Panasonics seem to have problems missing recordings selected through the EPG, so everybody has some kind of kink in the EPG implementation.

I have found the PQ of the Pioneer so good, that I am still pretty happy with the recorder. A reliable EPG would make me a very satisfied customer.

Last night my EPG lost its "Listings" data again (no tv schedule show in the grid display)2. Even though the "Listings" is empty, and the EPG data is still there, can be accessed through the "Search" screen.
Wow, that's useful to know, thanks! Since I do most of my scheduling as a result of searches, that could pretty much eliminate the impact of losing the guide listings.

ChrisC47 - my loss of EPG data occurred after about 3 weeks of operation.

Ironically, the Panasonics seem to have problems missing recordings selected through the EPG, so everybody has some kind of kink in the EPG implementation.

This is not universal. I have never missed a timer recording using the EPG on my Panasonic E-500. I think that this has been reported by only a couple of people, unlike the EPG problems that owners of Pioneer and Toshiba recorders report.

In my opinion, based on my experiences, the Panasonics clearly have a better implementation of the TV Guide EPG.

RG

I've waited 4 days now since the reset and the EPG data hasn't come back. I think the "24 hours and no peeking" concept is BS anyway -- something else is going on here. The first time I set this up ( a month ago), the channel lineup was defined within a couple hours of standby time. There are other posts in this forum that have talked about the timing of the EPG data downloads.

Thanks neilck for the news that it just comes back without a reset; next time I'll try that.

In the meantime, I'm screwed! No data for nearly a week now! And since I did the reset, there's nothing even via the search workaround.

For those of you who see that the data is still there when searching, is it showing "new" data? That's going to be hard to isolate due to the 1-2-8 download algorithm, but I bet you're just looking at the exisiting cache of listings data. Once a couple days go by (assuming the problem persists) I'm guessing you'll start to see the data in the Search results evaporating.

I also tried a full power cycling of the unit. It's a computer, after all, maybe it needed to get rebooted. No luck.

Looks like I get to plow into Pioneer Customer support. Please kill me.

My EPG disappeared yesterday morning again, so I tried the search capability. It found programs and descriptions, so the data is there.

I guess my theory about turning off channels that I don't record from didn't help with the loss of the EPG.

Right now, I seem to be an a cycle of having EPG information available about 1/2 the time.

As I have most of the repetitive programs I want marked for recording, I am getting daily programs on disc. When the EPG comes back, I think I'll try just leaving the preselcted shows record for a few days and not select anything else for recording.

This might indicate whether the loss of the EPG is related to selecting programs for recording. Seems it shouldn't as this is the basic purpose of the EPG.

My contact with Pioneer customer service has yielded nothing. They have no idea what is going on, but will get back to me when they have an answer.

I've lost the EPG data on my Pioneer 533 only once (for about 2 days) since I bought the unit on August 11. Between my wife and I we probably record 2-3 programs a day, sometimes manually (ie, press the "Record" button), sometimes via a manual schedule, and sometimes by selecting a program off the EPG and scheduling a recording for it. There's been no correlation between scheduling recordins and EPG data loss for us.

I was on the phone with Pioneer earlier today. My problem isn't solved yet, but I do have some veeeery interesting troubleshooting information. I'll post it in another thread later today or tomorrow after I learn more.

STILL not working. I did find that one lead on my twinlead OTA antenna was broken, and fixed that, but I still got no data overnight. The signal of the station that feeds the TVGOS data in my market still looks as strong as it ever did. It's a weak station though, dangit. Gemstart really needs to find another station in the Atlanta market for their TVGOS data.

Anyway, my gift to you all is in this thread: <A HREF="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581845">TVGOS debug screens</A>.

FINALLY WORKING AGAIN! It was out 9 freaking days. I'm just glad it came back before the wave of show premieres this week (The Office, Arrested Development, etc.).

So, here's what I did / found out:

1. First, I think something needs to be clarified about this problem that we're all chasing in this thread. When we say "disappearing EPG", we don't just mean missing one day's worth of data so that the listing is full of "no listing" entries. We mean that the whole listing database is wiped out, INCLUDING CHANNEL LINEUP, and all you get when you go to the EPG display is the friendly statement about "rebuilding your listing per your settings". Keep that in mind when you say that you lost your data -- differentiate between missing just one data load and losing everything.

2. I believe what started all this is that the cat knocked over the rabbit ears antenna and broke it (no cable or satellite for me, just OTA). Since I bought this DVR, I've had to disconnect my fancy attic antenna and use the rabbit ears because in my market (Atlanta) the TVGOS data comes in ONLY on the PBS station, and that's the one station that the attic antenna setup can NOT pull in (rather, I had sacrificed that station for the others -- there's another PBS station that I get crystal clear so I had abandoned the first PBS station). Sooo, for the past month I've had the rabbit ears setup, and further it's laid in a weird way against the wall to optimize the PBS reception. The cat knocked it over and BROKE one of the twin leads, which I'm guessing degraded the signal enough to kill the EPG data reads. All channels still looked fine, including the PBS station (which is why I didn't realize the antenna was broken) but I guess it was just below the threshold of acceptability for the DVRs EPG decoder.

3. I realized that the antenna was broken on Saturday (2 days ago). I quickly repaired it and hooked it up, and waited a few hours to see if anything came in, but nothing did (more below about wait times). So I let it run overnight and the next morning ... nothing.

4. Fine, I brought out the big guns again. I did a reset -- on front panel, hold stop button, hit power button. After the reset cycle was done (about 1 minute, display says "wait") I then further power cycled the unit -- pulled the plug for 10 seconds. OK, now it was REALLY reset.

5. I started it up and it was back to out-of-box conditions (except for the HDD recordings, thankfully those have persisted throughout). I did the clock / tuner setup that it prompted me for. This is interesting, because I had expected the TVGOS setup to be the first thing it asked for. It wasn't -- the unit wanted to do its native non-TVGOS setup. It was only after I later pushed the TVG button for the first time that it started the TVGOS setup process (enter zip, etc.). This might be significant because the "native" setup includes scanning the band for active stations, narrowing the channel selection from 68 possible channels to look at down to 9 or so. This might have helped the TVGOS find its signal later.

6. OK, so I'd done the native setup and TVGOS setup. I powered off and let it rip. Within ONE HOUR it had corrected its clock to GMT. Within SEVERAL HOURS it had corrected the clock to local time and learned the channel lineup! This was the first time in a week that I had seen ANY EPG data come in. Note that I did not have to wait overnight to see the channel lineup.

7. I went ahead and corrected the channel lineup (turning off undesired stations, reordering them) and then powered the unit off again so it would get the schedule data overnight. Everything up to now (from step 4 to here) had happened in a single day during daylight hours -- no overnight wait was required to confirm that something was in fact happening, just a few hours to finally get the channel lineup.

8. The next morning (now!) I finally had my full EPG listings data back!

9. So right away I looked at the EPG debug data (see previous post -- I can't believe you guys aren't jumping all over that gold mine! And you call yourself geeks. For shame! :) ) I was very surprised to see that "Host Channel" is still blank, that the Host Channel "slicing" stats are still zero all the way down, and that the VBIDL screen shows NO new download events even though I have received data.

10. On the other hand, there IS some interesting data in the Memory pages about channel data, and the Reception - VBI Stats screen shows lots of Lineup / Station / Schedule / Show / Desc packets coming in.

So, our understanding of how the TVGOS debug data correlates to EPG receives is weak at best.

In short, next time this happens I will do this sequence:
1. Verify that the antenna is OK (PBS picture as clear as possible).
2. Reset unit with stop/power buttons.
3. Power cycle unit
4. Do native setup then TVGOS setup then power off.
5. After a few hours, check for channel lineup and reconfigure that as soon as it's in.
6. Let run overnight and hopefully gather listings data again!

What causes this in the first place? Some sort of weak EPG signal is my guess. Maybe multiple days in a row of missed EPG data (channel lineup still there, but "no listings"). We still need to figure this out.

There. I've made my contribution to solving this problem :)

Continuing my conversation with myself ... :)

Just FYI, I've been correctly receiving EPG data for 3 days now, and the "Host Channel" data is STILL blank / zero. I don't understand ...

I'm getting very familiar with these screens, zipping around every morning to check what's happened overnight. Eventually I hope I'll become comfortable enough with the data that the next time the unit gets corrupted, I'll be able to look at the data and figure out what the problem is. It would be nice to be able to receover without doing a complete reset (and losing all my scheduled events).

Finally, and all you disappearing EPG guys pay attention to this, I was talking to the chief engineer of the state PBS operation last night (at a SMPTE meeting, I'm a broadcast engineer) and he reported that at the same time that my Pioneer originally went ballistic (Sep 10th) they had been installing some new HBI equipment (similar to VBI) and it definitely screwed up the system, including downstream receivers. They ended up having to reset equipment. So whatever that glitch was that came down the pipe was really screwing up our EPGs.

Learning more every day ...

Continuing my conversation with myself ... :)
I've been following you Chris ..... I've already tested your info on my 533, and it's interesting. Only thing I'm looking for however, is a setting that will put the EPG into a deep coma !!! :p

Finally, and all you disappearing EPG guys pay attention to this, I was talking to the chief engineer of the state PBS operation last night (at a SMPTE meeting, I'm a broadcast engineer) and he reported that at the same time that my Pioneer originally went ballistic (Sep 10th) they had been installing some new HBI equipment (similar to VBI) and it definitely screwed up the system, including downstream receivers. They ended up having to reset equipment. So whatever that glitch was that came down the pipe was really screwing up our EPGs.

And what state might that be? 'Cause it didn't happen in Pennsylvania.

Hey Chris, thanks so much for sharing your experiences and debug info. I have a feeling this will come in very handy at some point. Gotta love this forum and people like yourself!

I had my EPG almost fully populated (7 of the 8 days) when I got home yesterday. Viewed a couple of programs and turned the recorder off. EPG showed on the display, as it usually does.

Came back a couple of hours later, turned the recorder on, and EPG was again gone. Same "24 hours" message. Viewed another recorded program and again put the unit in standby.

Will see what (if anything) I get in the EPG when I get home today.

Hey aydu, take a look at the debug screens (see "TVGOS debug screens" thread). Hopefully you've already been looking in there (before the failure) so you're a bit familiar with them. Take a look now and see if anything looks odd.

I'm sure I'll see the failure soon enough for myself :(

I am now trying another unit of the Pioneer DVR-531H-S. The TV Guide loaded in a timely manner after initial setup, and continued to populate new listings for the "in-between days" until a week's worth of listings ahead was available. It then lost all the listings which been showing for the week ahead. It continued to record the six shows I had scheduled to record for a couple of days, and showed in the schedule part of the TVGOS. I didn't try searching for programs though. I let the recorder stay off otherwise for two days or more, so it could hopefully get its updates, which it never did. So I did the reset from the front panel, went through the setup again as before, waited overnight until the EPG went away from the front display. I was prompted when I turned it back on to pick from Digital or Analog Cable (I think those were the two terms it used). Why that question isn't part of the original setup I don't know, would have saved one day of waiting. I am now waiting for the EPG to go away, and the listings to return.

I have called Pioneer again about this problem, and asked if there was a software update I could get to help fix this problem. At first the CSR said no, there was no software fix. Then he said Oh, I see we have escalated this to TVGOS, this IS a known problem. He told me if I have my recorder registered on the http://www.pioneerelectronics.com site, I would get an email when the fix is available. So I think there is hope at last! Pioneer is at least now fully aware of the problem, I'm sure thanks to all the calls and mail they've received. AND is seeking a solution. The first time I called, several weeks back, with my first 531H, I was told they had never heard of this problem.

I really appreciate the moral support that all the rest of the posters give to frustrated owners of these products. You all helped me repair my TiVo when it was down, and have given me some ideas on how to keep using my 531H if the Guide goes away again.

I still have an open case # with Pioneer customer service. This must mean nothing, as it has been open for at least two weeks.

I hope this gets resolved soon. The recorder is a great piece of equipment. The only real operational flaw I have found is the EPG losing data constantly.

Oh, sure, I've got an open case with them too. That was a week ago. Not expecting a call :)

And I agree, this is indeed a great recorder, except for it going insane periodically. I suppose that maybe all DVRs do this, but I love that I can watch a DVD or HDD program and it still records scheduled programs. The user interface is just fine, does all the right things. All I have to do is remember to turn it off at night so that it gets the EPG download (or loses its brains :( ) ...

I own a 533 and I recently had this problem for the first time. I've had the unit for just about two months now and last Sunday all my listings suddenly disappeared. I live in Vancouver, Canada and use regular cable. After reading through this thread I can see this is a problem for a lot of people so I thought I'd share my experience.

At first I decided to give the unit a chance to correct itself, so I waited a few days to see what would happen. Thursday came around and I still had no listings. At this point I decided to call Pioneer customer service and see what they had to say about this. I got the following information:

-he said there might have been an interruption in the cable service that caused this problem.
-he told me the only way to fix this was to reset the unit and start the setup from scratch.
-he told me I had to wait 24-30 hours without peeking. I explicity asked him if it was necessary to not turn the unit on during this time, and he said it was.
-he told me if it happened again after resetting the unit, they could then escalate the issue to TVGOS.

So, realizing that I couldn't turn the unit on for 24 hours after resetting it, I waited until this weekend to do so, because I record shows almost every weeknight and couldn't leave it off for that long. So with today being the day, I woke up this morning and turned on the unit, only to find that I had all my listings for the entire week ahead!

I don't know how this happened, but clearly the customer support guy was wrong telling me that I had to reset the unit. I even asked him if I should wait longer and he basically said it wouldn't do any good. So for those wondering, it may not always be necessary to reset the unit when this happens. I was this close to doing so myself, but I'm glad I waited the week out.

I'll continue keep a close eye on it, but as of right now all seems to be back to normal.

My EPG comes and goes. When it disappears, it tends to come back within a day or two. I have regular recording set, so the recorder is never off a full 24 hours.

I don't believe I have ever gotten all 8 days loaded without losing the EPG.

A couple days ago I finally got all 8 days loaded in (possibly for the 1st time ever) and the "EPG" indication turned off. Woooo. I checked the debug screen and finally the "host channel" data has filled in. I don't understand why it wasn't filled in before, for days after the EPG data was coming back in.

krisb01, thanks for your very interesting report. It shows that even if the EPG data has disappeared, if and when it comes back it ALL comes back, meaning that the unit HAS been receiving data during that downtime.

One question, if you see this: when you said "So with today being the day, I woke up this morning and turned on the unit", did you mean it had been off for 24 hours, or that you were about to turn it off for 24 hours? You posted on a Sunday night, which implies the former.

I had problems with the european model 530H, first week all was well, fully loaded data, the info screen knew about host channel and next downloads and stuff, all was fine.

After a few days, nada, the dreaded red text telling me there wasn't any data for 24h.

On a certain day I turned it on and all was gone, including channel names & logo's.

This went on for a week, even did a reset, nothing changed...

I started thinking back to what I had changed, and then I remembered! There is a clock setting, manual or auto. I had it on manual in the beginning, somewhere during the first week I changed it to "auto" - it asks a channel, and I believe it gets the clock from teletext or something?

I'm thinking it uses the tuner on a regular basis to get to the channel were you want the clock from, and so looses the ability to load EPG.

Anyway, I changed it back to manual yesterday... guess what, this morning, in less than 12 hours from the last reset I did, fully loaded guide, 5 days!

I'm not sure this is a coincidence or not, but check it out, if you have problems, reset the machine, do the "normal" gui setup, choose manual clock, setup the channels (easy if you have smartlink) and install the guide.

I sure hope this is it... if people can confirm this is the problem, we can mail Pioneer.

Oh, detail, I had the auto clock on *another channel* than the guide host - maybe if it is the same it'll work ok?

Well, I finally got all 8 days loaded in my 521's EPG!! The display did not show the EPG notation. I figured I was all loaded.

Next day - all was gone!

This morning, EPG is showing on the front display and the hard drive is active doing something.

I'm starting to think that the EPG just needs a day off every once in awhile to rest up and probably watch some TV.

It's a coincidence. I haven't touched my clock. Aydu had a similar theory with recording DVDs, but that turned out to be a red herring too.

The only correlation that I see is that it seems to happen after about 9-10 days, a couple days after you finally get a full 8 days of schedule.

It just happened again to me yesterday! And it's still in the problem state now. I checked the debug screens and found the following interesting things:
Section System - Statistics : Host Chan is blank again
Section Memory - Channels : Rebuild Error had a very high number, like 4x10^9, see below
Section VBI Data - Packet : still showing packets coming in (one overnight later, see below)
Section VBI Data - VBIDL : last event is 9/29 17:11 (GMT); probably when it failed
Section Reception - Slicing : HostChan colomn is all zeros again
Section Reset Info - Error Tracker : I see alternating lines beginning with 0x7000 or 0x103, going back 7 days of history, EXCEPT the most recent 'pair' is missing the 0x103 event; so it's like the pattern was broken when it failed; last good pair was 9/29 17:44 GMT.

I don't want to do a reset (power / stop button combo) because that WILL wipe out the scheduled recordings setup, and we know already that that doesn't fix it. But power cycling it might do something (turn unit 'off' then pull the power cord and put it back in to force a fresh reboot). I did that last night and .... no luck overnight pulling in any data. Still the same rebuilding message. Rechecking the debug screens, the only change is that the rebuild error counter reset to zero after the power cycle.

Now, it still is recording the scheduled shows, so it's still somewhat functional. Not sure if it will record 'regular' shows beyond today.

So power cycling seemed to have no effect. Now my next step is to leave it off for 24 hours straight. That can next happen over this weekend. I'm still hoping that krisb01 will stop by and answer my question.

OK, it was just an idea...

I hope it keeps working here, the Guide is fantastic... if it works!

the TVGOS debug trick didn't work for me, could it be different for european pioneer models? tried it in various menu's just to be sure, but no effect.

One question, if you see this: when you said "So with today being the day, I woke up this morning and turned on the unit", did you mean it had been off for 24 hours, or that you were about to turn it off for 24 hours? You posted on a Sunday night, which implies the former.

I meant I was about to turn the unit off for 24 hours. When my listings came back the unit had only been off overnight for around 8-9 hours.

BUT... I have some more info to report. It seems my problem is not fixed after all and I have noticed something interesting. A few days ago, I turned on the unit to find all my listings had disappeared again. So I waited until the next day, and this time all my listings were back. I started noticing a pattern here: If I turn on the unit when "EPG" is displayed on the front panel, all my listings are gone and I get the rebuilding message. If I turn on the unit when there is no "EPG" displayed, my listings are all there. So the next day I did a test. I turned my unit on around 7:00pm, when "EPG" was showing. No listings. I turned it off and waited until 9:00pm when the "EPG" display went away. This time I turned on my unit and sure enough, all the listings were back!

The only difference I see between the two is that when I turn my unit on when "EPG" is not displayed, there's always a 30-40 second "waiting" period. This wait is never required if I turn the unit on when "EPG" is displayed.
So what I'm thinking now is that the 30 second "WAIT" time is somehow properly setting up the channels to be displayed in the EPG. When this doesn't happen, the unit can't display the channels correctly and thinks it's still "rebuilding".

Keep in mind that I was not having this problem before I initially lost all my EPG data. My listings were there every day for 2 months since I bought the unit, no matter when I turned it on. But ever since it first lost data, I think it's in a somewhat corrupt state that needs to be fixed by resetting the machine and starting the setup from scratch. I think I will try to do that this weekend.

After reading the posts regarding disappearing and reappearing guides, I decided
not to do another reset after it disappeared. I just used the search function to find shows to record, a bit irritating but better than nothing. After a week, the guide did come back.

I did recently call Pioneer to ask again for a code update to fix this problem. At first the CSR said they did not have any fix for it, then in a suprised voice, he said, "Oh this IS a known problem, and we are escalating this with TVGOS." He said to register online (under the specific model) as an owner, and that I would get an email when the fix becomes available.

I still wonder if perhaps some of my other devices' remote controls are causing this problem, through some shared code sequence that tells TVGOS that I've done a change when I haven't deliberately done so. The remote control for the DVD has been changing things on my TIVO, so the reverse might be true too. Clear button on my TIVO turns one of my stereos off and on, for instance. I did ask about that the first time I called Pioneer, but the CSR said it was very unlikely. Has anyone tried covering the front of the Pioneer when it is not in use, just in case it might be getting commands from another remote control or infrared device and losing the guide due to that?

My unit is still corrupted, 3 days later. I can't try krisb01's idea, to turn on only when EPG is NOT displayed, because for me it's always displayed! Maybe that's tied to the same root problem.

I also tried leaving it off for 24 hours straight (36 hours actually) but that didn't fix it either.

If I see the EPG display turn off I'll be sure to power it up and take a look. I have no doubt krisb01 is onto something, but for me that EPG is nearly always in the display.

Fortunately, it does seem to be continuing to record the regular shows for the most part. It's missing some, but I haven't figured out the pattern to what it takes and what it misses when in this corrupted state.

Resigning myself to doing another complete reset if it doesn't fix itself after a week ...

Has anyone spoken to Pioneer recently? Will the disappearing Data be resolved. Im sick of it. I finally get 8 days after owning the machine a month, and the listings are gone today.

Q) Why after set up of TVGO does it say "24 hours" some times, and "There is no data for this screen" others times.

Thanks for any responses.

LDK

So LDK provides another data point where it fails after a month, and after finally getting all 8 days of data into it. That's exactly the same timing that happened to me.

Another thing that's interesting: everyone here has been saying that you can still find shows by using the search feature. Right now, two shows that I would normally record tonight (Arrested Development and Medium) do NOT show up in the search listings. But they DO show up in the scheduled recordings as being ready to record tonight, 10/3.

I hate registering my products with companies (here comes the junk mail) but I've gone ahead and done that with Pioneer in the hope that they will in fact notify us if and when an update is available, per misssmokys report. Does Pioneer have a history of providing firmware updates for their DVR models?

Well, my TV Guide listings have gone again. It's been 2.5 weeks since the last loss. For me, there's a consistent pattern where if I leave anything in the CD tray, and the PVR on DVD mode, it messes up, probably during an EPG download. (Not to say that the same problem can't happen because of bad data transmission, or other causes).

I'll leave it alone, and hope it comes back again.

Well, my TV Guide listings have gone again. It's been 2.5 weeks since the last loss. For me, there's a consistent pattern where if I leave anything in the CD tray, and the PVR on DVD mode, it messes up, probably during an EPG download. (Not to say that the same problem can't happen because of bad data transmission, or other causes).

I'll leave it alone, and hope it comes back again.

Well, one day later, it came back on its own again. Didn't do anything special.

One other thing to try, Clear any recordings that do not have a show anymore. IOW if you had a timer for every night or every wednesday for example. And now the timer is orphaned due to that show not being on now that the fall season has arrived. Could it be that the TVGOS is trying to locate that show? And failing at that point it doesn't finish the guide data processing?

My 531h started displaying the rebuild thing. I went and looked at timers and I had two with no data associated as the shows were no longer showing, 1 moved to a cable channel this unit dows not get and the other is off the air in the current guide (Think PBS and fund raising schedule). When I removed these two timers the next day TVGOS was working again.

I'm not saying it is the fix or even that it is a fix, however for me twice now that has revived my guide. It can not hurt and could be worth a try. The only thing was it is not intuitive how to remove a timer, I mean highlight the timer and then press menu? You would think highlight the timer and press select.

Excpet for this problem I love this unit, good quality recordings, easy edits, decent interface. Very slow guide even when working it reminds me of my Dishplayer 7100's guide speed.

Good Luck

RogerT, one thing that helps make the glacial EPG go better is using the number keys to jump forward / back N hours. While in the EPG just hit a number on your remote and see what happens.

Still no data, now 6 days later ... but the scheduled recordings are working ...

I did know that actually but even that seems slow, Also the right side rocker switch can go ahead or back 24 hours in the guide and as I recall it the left hand one paged up/down in the guide.

Just from curiousity do you have any orphaned timers as I described?

The EPG on my 531 is working fine now.

I had experienced the problem of the EPG disappearing every few days, recovering without any action on my part.

My query to Pioneer Customer Service yielded nothing, other than the fact that they were going to have to refer the issue to engineering and would get back to me when they had an answer.

Others have reported that their reports to customer service yielded the fact that this was a known problem that had been sent to Gemstar for resolution. Supposedly, those who registered their recorders with Pioneer would get an e-mail when the issue was corrected.

I never got an e-mail or an answer to my customer service case, but it does seem to be working fine now.

Has anybody else gotten their EPG to work for more than a few consecutive days?

It seems like this topic has stopped getting responses posted, which would make sense if the problem has been solved.

The EPG on my 531 is working fine now.
Has anybody else gotten their EPG to work for more than a few consecutive days?
It seems like this topic has stopped getting responses posted, which would make sense if the problem has been solved.

I originally set up my 531 on August 1st. The TVGOS was fully populated by August 7th. It has worked perfectly every day since then....no missed recordings and no missed updates. I get my listings off my PBS station using a Motorola digital cable box hooked up thru L1. The only thing I have not gotten is any type of ads on the TVGOS screen, which is fine with me.

Often (but not always), my schedule contains a "Lost Channel" entry. Since I haven't lost any real channels, it isn't a big deal i just find it odd.

brian

My conclusion on TVGOS working after reading many posts on subject is that it is highly dependent on your cable system and type of set top cable box. This seems to be true wether you are using Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony or Toshiba etc...

TVGOS refused to load on my Pioneer 531 through my Raleigh Time-Warner SA3250HD cable box S-video input and I have it turned off. I think it might load if I bypassed the cable box and cable RF from cable straight into 531s tuner, But then I would not have Pioneer control over the digital channels.

I use the SA3250HDs VCR commander function (and its IR blaster) to schedule and start/stop recordings on my Pioneer.

Often (but not always), my schedule contains a "Lost Channel" entry. Since I haven't lost any real channels, it isn't a big deal i just find it odd.

brianThat sounds suspiciously like the "Last Channel" entry at the top of the listings. I thought that was there as a convenience to show the information for whatever channel you tuned to most recently.

I had no listings off and on for a couple of weeks, but things have been OK for a few days now. I think it's a little early to celebrate yet, though.

During the listing outages I was always able to find listing information using the "Search" function, never had a problem with scheduled recordings, and never missed downloads of new guide data (ie, even though the machine wouldn't show me anything in the "Listings" screen, it was actually downloading guide data and I could always find listings for shows over each of the next 8 days using the "Search" function).

I've just bought a second Pioneer (this time a 633 to complement my 533) and I'm waiting for a guide outage to see if it will affect both machines. It will take a couple more days before the 633's guide is completely populated, though...

Mine works perfectly since my last reset (what, 2 weeks now?)

Only settings I changed are

1) Guide language (english instead of dutch)
2) Set clock manually (instead of auto from a certain channel)

EPG only flashes up during the hours indicated on the "next download" screen, for about an hour, then goes away.

I hope it keeps working!

I've just bought a second Pioneer (this time a 633 to complement my 533) and I'm waiting for a guide outage to see if it will affect both machines. It will take a couple more days before the 633's guide is completely populated, though...

This should be very interesting. I'm curious to see if both lose data at the same time or not. We'll then get a better idea of who's at fault here, TVGOS or Pioneer. Not that Pioneer will ever be free from blame. They could have handled losses of data better than their current impelmentation.

That sounds suspiciously like the "Last Channel" entry at the top of the listings. I thought that was there as a convenience to show the information for whatever channel you tuned to most recently.

You are correct :o for mis-reading it as "Lost Channel". However, since it never has any info (just "no listing" or something similar), my misreading is somewhat understandable.

Brian

To Pioneer Electronics Canada
Customer Satisfaction and Technical Support
300 Allstate Parkway
Markham, Ontario
L3R – 0P2

I purchased a DVR-633H-S, at Future Shop, on Sept. 7, 2005.
S/N EEDL000819CA

I am writing this letter with best intentions, to enlighten technical support of an issue that I have now encountered 4 times, and I have read that it is a very common issue.

I telephoned technical support this week. The gentleman whom I dealt with was unfamiliar with this issue.

I am on Rogers cable, use a direct cable connection to the recorder with no cable box. The TVGOS populates overnight and 6 to 8 days later, the guide disappears, and displays a message that it is rebuilding the database based on my changes, and will be displayed within 24h. However, the listings do not reappear, and a reset is necessary.

Weekly programming is non existent, and daily programming is necessary making the unit more work than its worth, and a total disappointment.

I have enclosed 28 pages of a form titled “Pioneer Disappearing EPG”, where many others experience this same problem.

I hope and pray that a fix for this problem may be found. I truly hope you take the time to read these notes, and work with TVGOS to figure out the flaw causing this problem.

Sincerely,

.......

(Hope they do something here guys)

Hi All... Maybe someone can help me with my problem...bought a Pioneer DVR633H and very happy with it although picture is less bright than the TV... but my biggest problem is that you can't program it without using the EPG something I overlooked... as my setup includes 3 different receivers and I want to record international satellites programming the EPG does not help me. In the past I saw some cheap remote control in the "as seen on tv" that you could beam the chanel, time on and off to the VCR. Is there something like that in a learning (or Pioneer capable) remote control that I can use to timer programming my Pioneer? I don't mind to have to leave the remote control pointed to the Pioneer... Thanks for all the help guys....

Speedmaster, you should start a new thread for that question.

Another data point about the disappearing EPG:

I lost my EPG data around Sep. 30th. Been waiting since then for it to come back; programmed shows have continued to record but there's no EPG display.

I left town for about 9 days and came back and now, 3 weeks after initial EPG loss, I STILL have no EPG data. Looking at the debug info, it looks like it came back on the 12th but then disappeared again (I see download events on the "VBI Data - VBIDL" debug page.

I haven't done any resets, just did a complete power cycle to force a reboot. Sigh.

Well, had another, different EPG issue and thought I'd let you-all know about it.

I've had a Pioneer 533 for a couple of months and have had a number of "missing EPG" incidents where the guide data is in fact downloaded and stored in the machine (as evidenced by the ability to search for and find program information), but the TVGOS won't display anything in the listings screen except words to the effect of "Resetting your channel lineup based on your setup changes". When this happens, scheduled shows record as normal and new data continues to be loaded into the (hidden) guide even though it can't be displayed via the normal "listings" screen.

I recently bought a second machine, this one a Pioneer 633. The 633 is installed downstairs and has a feed through a splitter from the cable outlet to the RF-input. The guide data loaded normally and for a couple of weeks all was well. Then a couple of days ago it encountered a different kind of EPG data loss. The "listings" screen displayed the normal channel lineup / time matrix, but each of the entries showed "No Listing". This was displayed for every channel for the entire 8-day range of the guide.

When I went into the "Schedule" screen, the listings I had scheduled using the guide (ie, I had found the show in the guide's "listings" screen, pressed enter, and selected the recording options) were there, but greyed out and with no information. The shows I had scheduled manually (ie, pressed "Timer Rec" button on the remote and manually entered time, channel no., etc.), showed in blue as per normal.

While the guide was in this state, guide-scheduled shows did NOT record, but manually-scheduled shows recorded normally. Fortunately, I only missed one show and was able to catch a later broadcast of it. My faith in scheduling shows via the guide now in ruins, I have rescheduled all my shows manually.

Last night, without resetting the machine or making any other changes (other than rescheduling everything manually), listings started to populate into the guide again, and I now have listings for today, tomorrow, and 8 days from now. The customized channel lineup I had configured is still intact. During this entire incident, the upstairs Pioneer 533 was unaffected and continued to display listings and record shows normally. The 533 has never behaved in the way I just described for the 633.

I'm not sure if this behaviour is the "normal" way a 633 reacts to whatever causes the guide data to go missing, compared to what happens on the 533. There's perhaps a small chance that it has something to do with the fact that I customized the channel lineup, since that's never been done on the 533. I'll keep monitoring both machines to see what happens.

You know, I'm not so sure that Panasonic allows one to "turn off" the TV Guide EPG as easily as you suggest. I have not tried to bypass the EPG so I can't speak to this, but I would like to hear from others who have successfully disabled the EPG on their Panasonic recorder.

When the EPG is disabled in Panasonic DVD recorders, what happens? Does it periodically reappear as it does on the Pioneer recorders?

This information may come in handy if the EPG on my E-500 begins to "act up" and needs to be "put down", and would be useful for other Panasonic DVD recorder owners.

RG

I have the Panasonic DMR-E95H. And although the EPG loaded correctly, I was frustrated by the constant channel changing on my cable box while listening to Music Choice--which I have cabled directly to its own input on my receiver (of course I have learned since, that I can just power on the Panny while listening so that it won't try to update the EPG when I don't want it to.

The real frustration that caused me to "disable" the TV Guide functions on my E95H is because the blaster did not prove very reliable in correctly selecting channels for my preset programs. Although I saw the unit have some occasional difficulty with one and two digit channels, the frequency of that difficulty was in excess of 40% of the time with three digit channels. I use it manually now and it works fine, but I am inconvenienced to have to remember to make sure the cable is tuned to the correct channel so it will record my desired program instead of 3 hours of Music Choice--which I listen to a lot.

But the real reason I am responding is regrding RGAZZARA's note to others about turning of the TV Guide. I have "turned off" the TV Guide function, according to the instructions in the Panasonic owner's manual--several times. BUT, I have yet to figure out how to TOTALLY turn it off. Even with the EPG disabled, the TV Guide home page screen displays when the Panasonic is powered on. And the ONLY way I can find to turn it off is to press the TV GUIDE button. But next time I power the machine on the TV Guide home page screen again displays. Soooooo, unless someone out there has a procedure that I missed in the manual, the TV Guide "functionality" can be disabled, but one really can't completely avoid the TV Guide because the TV Guide home page can NOT be prevented from displaying when the machine is powered up.

Anyone else???

There is a setting on my E-500 that allows turning off the TVGOS on start up. I believe it is in the TVGOS set up menu. I am not at home right now and so I cannot check it, but I have set by E-500 so that the TVGOS does not appear on start up.

RG

My 533 guide came and went. In Boston I have two PBS stations, Ch2 and Ch44.
Channel 44 has the best reception on my RF in, so at night I turn my 533 on 44 when I shut it off.
My guide has worked great since .

There is a setting on my E-500 that allows turning off the TVGOS on start up. I believe it is in the TVGOS set up menu. I am not at home right now and so I cannot check it, but I have set by E-500 so that the TVGOS does not appear on start up.

RG

rgazzara, thanks for the note. I just looked at my setup menu on the E95H. I am not seeing the option you are referring to. Maybe I am not looking in the right place??

avstooge,

Turn on the TVGOS. Move the cursor to the top of the screen. Move the cursor left or right until you highlight "setup". Three buttons should be displayed below. Move the cursor down to the 3rd button (review options). Click on that button and you will see a message that asks if you want the TV Guide auto display on or off. Choose off. That will prevent the TVGOS from appearing when you turn the recorder on.

RG

avstooge,

Turn on the TVGOS. Move the cursor to the top of the screen. Move the cursor left or right until you highlight "setup". Three buttons should be displayed below. Move the cursor down to the 3rd button (review options). Click on that button and you will see a message that asks if you want the TV Guide auto display on or off. Choose off. That will prevent the TVGOS from appearing when you turn the recorder on.

RG

RG,
Thanks for the note. I did what you said and it worked. However, I also scoured through the E95H owner's manual and am darned if I can find any mention of that menu at the top of the TVGOS screen. Thanks again.

You're right, it's not in the manual.

I recently bought a second machine, this one a Pioneer 633. The 633 is installed downstairs and has a feed through a splitter from the cable outlet to the RF-input. The guide data loaded normally and for a couple of weeks all was well. Then a couple of days ago it encountered a different kind of EPG data loss. The "listings" screen displayed the normal channel lineup / time matrix, but each of the entries showed "No Listing". This was displayed for every channel for the entire 8-day range of the guide.

I live in BC too, and the same thing happened to me on my 533 right around the same time it happened to you. All my listings are back now except for one day, which I imagine will be back by today. I figure it was just an issue with Shaw cable service, but it's strange how only one of your units experienced the problem.

I live in New Jersey. I have had the Pioneer 533 for 3 weeks and can not get the TV Guide Listing. I get the channel list but not the programs. I have a cablebox (cablevision) so I can get scrambled stations. The cable line is connect to the Cablebox, the cable box is connected to the 533 via Line 1. Any suggestions.

Wow, Pioneer is awesome. I'm not being sarcastic. The unit may have a problem, still, but today I got a callback from Pioneer DVR support checking on my trouble ticket from 6 weeks ago. Alas I had to tell him that it's still not working for me -- right now I'm heading for 4 weeks with no EPG. Scheduled recordings are still working (as described above by myself and others) so I'm not really jumping up and down screaming. It's just that it would be nice to program new shows, navigate the EPG, etc. :)

I mentioned to the guy that there was a whole community of folks here (at avsforums) with this same "disappearing EPG" problem, and he was very interested in that. I gave him directions to here and he might come by and take a look to see the trouble reports. Everyone be on your best behavior :) And remember, this thread is about the disappearing EPG -- you've got it, it works, and then it disappears and says it'll be back in 24 hours. But takes days if not a week or more to come back. I'm just saying, let's keep the problems sequestered :) Thanks everyone.

Fortunately I'm a good test case, because I'm strictly over the air. No cable, no satellite, no IR blaster, just 9 channels of OTA fun! So it can't be blamed on CableMegaCorpInc and whether they're passing the VBI data or not.

mike1007, search this forum some more. This thread is about having EPG working but then it disappears in a weird way. Off the top of my head, it sounds like you only have video going into the DVR -- no RF from the cable company. Unless you have the IR blaster hooked up so that it can command the cable box for you, I don't see how it would get the EPG data, unless maybe you left the cable box on the PBS station overnight. Search the forum for ideas. I'd split the cable and stick it into the DVR and see what happens. Of course, I don't have cable so whaddawino.

After 4 weeks, my EPG data finally came back last night.

When the unit is turned off it usually says the time and "EPG" in the display, indicating that it is receiving (or lacking/needing) EPG data. Mine ALWAYS says "EPG" in the display, and I mean always. Someone on this forum had mentioned that if you have this thread's problem, if you see the EPG has disappeared from the display, you can turn the unit on to find that the EPG data is back. I noticed last night that the "EPG" display was gone (clock only) and turned it on and -lo!- I had my listings back.

And it wasn't just the 1-2-8 day listings -- it was 5 of the 8 days (i.e. missing 3 days), so it had been receiving and retaining data, just not displaying it. I think that's been well established by all of us in this thread. The data is coming in, but the unit is confused and won't display it.

I hadn't done much of anything, except:
A) after a couple weeks I tried reseting the ZIP/input information, that was a week ago
B) I tweaked my OTA antenna to maximize the picture quality of the PBS station that carries this data in my market (WGTV, Ch 8 Atlanta) -- that was about 5 days ago. The picture has a slight amount of static but I've seen the EPG work with worse signals so I don't think the signal strength is the problem, although maybe it's aggravating it (lots of dropped packets).

Which leads to the really interesting thing. Despite the fact that I had 5 days of listings, the debug screens looked as if I had just done a complete reset, with most counters (packets, channel, etc.) at zero, counters that I would expect to be non-zero since it had listings data. I just don't get it.

And it's back to displaying "EPG" all the time on the front, but I still have listings. The pendulum swings ...

Anyway, here's to waiting for the next glitch *clink*

[... finishes glass, orders another]

THREE DAYS. That's how long I had listings before they disappeared again -- this morning they were gone.

OK, having spent so much time scanning the debug screens, I think I'm now recognizing what's different when it's in this failed mode. Here's what I notice this morning:

Screen name Data
System - Statistics Host Chan blank again
Memory - Channels Available [channels] = 0 (was 300+ before)
Memory - Channels On or Auto [channels] = 9 (same as before, my 9 OTA channels)
Memory - Channels Rebuild Error = 4294967295 (**** SEE BELOW ****)
VBI Data - Packet Still shows packets coming in just before I turned it on
VBI Data - VBIDL no successful starts today (LstSuStrt) despite attempt
VBI Data - Packetmatch 2 Pass = 0x3A (unremarkable value)
VBI Data - Packetmatch 2 Fail = 0x2994 (far higher than before)
Reset Info - Error Tracker *NO* abnormal errors to note

That rebuild error is new. And that number ... is a 32 bit overflow! 2^32-1 = 4294967295. Now maybe that's just their code for a certain type of error (e.g. 0xFFFFFFFF) but I always look for those kind of numbers (1024, 1045509, etc.) when debugging things like this because it could indicate an overflow or similar problem.

I believe I've seen that rebuild error every time the unit has failed in the past (and maybe have noted it in previous posts) but this time I'm going to harp on it since it seems to be an obvious flag.

The packetmatch fail counter is interesting too. When it's working, that number is non-zero but not that high, if I remember correctly. Of course, it's a chicken or egg problem: is the unit in the woods because of a sudden rash of failed packetmatches, or is that counter elevated because the unit's off in the woods?

The machine definitely got the Tuesday data (today is Monday, so Tuesday would by day #2 in the 1-2-8 scheme) because two regular show recordings that were listed as ????? last night (i.e. grey) are now resolving to their actual upcoming times (i.e. green). And I have confidence that it will record them, since it's been doing that throughout this all. I just can't see the listings and I can't program new recordings from those listings.

Aaaanyway, I seem to have a dialog going with Pioneer support now (though they could just be humoring me), so I've documented today's failure here and will refer to it the next time I talk to them. [thanks AVSforums for the excellent resource!]

One more thing I noticed: on the VBI Data - Packet screen, most of the counters are continuing to increment slowly (while the unit is off, thus in EPG data gather mode, I guess) except for the "OtherB" counter which is increasing rapidly. It collects about 1800 packets per hour, or one every 2 seconds. I don't know if it was doing that before (when the unit was working fine) or if that's normal but I thought it was notable. It is far and away the highest packet count on that screen. Also the "version" associated with that counter is 255 -- another funny number (2^8-1 in this case) that could flag a problem.

And that number ... is a 32 bit overflow! 2^32-1 = 4294967295.It could also be interpreted as the value "negative 1" in two's complement format. In my long coding experience it's not all that uncommon to see -1 used as an error indication.

Yep, you're right, I forgot about two's complement. It could be a "special error" flag -- remember that the number itself is an error flag field, so I would expect various positive values to represent various errors. Anyway, we're all in the dark ...

My 531 has been in rebuild mode for about 3 days now... the longest one yet. It will turn up search results, so there's some data in there- but of course nothing shows up in the listings screen.

I sure hope Pioneer comes through with a bug fix... it's not as though these are some $50 throw-away DVD players.

My 531 has gotten more reliable, but the EPG still flakes out occasionally. I lost the EPG data when the daylight savings time change occurred, but it was back - full 8 days - 24 hours later.

I was losing the EPG every other day, so losing it only about once a week now is an improvement. It seems like Gemstar must have done some software upgrade that improved things, but didn't totally solve the problem.

Having the ability to search to find listings is a workaround when the EPG flakes out.

If the EPG worked consistently, it would be a great tool, despite the slow paging of the guide and the channels being out of sequence with the cable service.

At least the channel customizations don't get lost when the EPG disappears. I have my most viewed channels all together on the 1st page of the EPG, which minimizes the paging required.

Oh Pioneer 633, you were doing so well... Why did you have a relapse and lose your EPG data again?

2 days short of 1 month since the last time, my Pioneer has lost its EPG again. Maybe it was time daylight savings change, maybe it was the use of L1 for recording. Who knows? I just hope it comes back soon.

Oh Pioneer 633, you were doing so well... Why did you have a relapse and lose your EPG data again?

2 days short of 1 month since the last time, my Pioneer has lost its EPG again. Maybe it was time daylight savings change, maybe it was the use of L1 for recording. Who knows? I just hope it comes back soon.

It came overnight, but had lost all of its listings. I just have today and tommorrow. I think maybe it doesn't understand daylight savings.

Interesting enough, my cable service provider decided to change around their channel listings, 25 became 43, etc. Going to system settings, change channel lineup did nothing, so I manually fixed them in the Channel Display.

Anybody got a bug fix ? I have the exact same problem.....

I went two weeks, my longest yet, went down today. I have all my programming in place so i'm going to ride this out with out a reset to see if it comes back.

Do the listings come back ever without a reset? Please give me your timeframe if you've tried this.

I have noticed that my listings disapear with manually turning off the machine, rather than it shuting down after a timer recording. I was consciously not shuting it off, unless the day was over. Today my son turned it off at 7pm, I turned it back on, and bingo, the listings were gone. I had never gone over 8 days until today.

I sent Pioneer a letter and all documentation from this shread, they didn't even reply by email or call me.

I don't think they care. Do you know if anyone with a 633 doesn't experience this disapearing EPG.


LDK

My 531 has been in rebuild mode for about 3 days now... the longest one yet. It will turn up search results, so there's some data in there- but of course nothing shows up in the listings screen.

My 531 was giving me the rebuilding channel lineup message starting on 11/13/05. During the next week I tried reselecting my area code/ provider by trying each of the two providers shown. Didn't help. I finally on 11/22/05 used the service code listed in
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=602644
and it started repopulating the listings the next day. You will have to wait a few minutes to select your area code and provider. I was surprised to find that my previously manually reordered channel numbers (my favorites at the top) were remembered. I did call my provider who said they hadn't changed anything in the TVGOS signal. But he did mention that they were in the process of adding a channel. So I don't know if that had anything to do with my problem. I should mention that just a few days before 11/13/05 I had rearranged the channels to group my favorites at the top of the list and I PROBABLY manually changed one of the channels instead of changing the position of the channel in the list. For instance, telling TVGOS that my HBO was on channel 6 instead of 501. So, I don't know if that would have confused the machine on the channel lineup. So far as of 11/26/05 I have all but days 3, 4, and 5 in the listings.

Surprisingly, the 24 hour rebuuilding message was gone in the AM, and all was normal, the listings for all 8 eight days were back. My area only has one cable provider, rogers.

LDK

Hey kids, I've got some good news on this problem.

Short story: do a TVGOS reset with the code below.

Long story:

I'd been continuing to have this problem -- the listings would work for a few days at a time, but most of the time they weren't working. The data was still visible by searching for particular programs, and the regular recordings were still happening, so the data was coming in, it just wasn't displaying the listings. And thus I couldn't easily program new recordings, and certainly couldn't just browse the EPG listings.

The Pioneer guy kept calling me back once a week or so to see if my problem was still existing, and I assured him that it was, so he was leaning towards doing an RMA on my unit. I don't want the hassle of losing the use of the unit, and having to dump the recorded shows from HDD to DVD. Further, I think the problem probably has something to do with my particular environment (OTA lineup, VBI signal quality, disc use) that is causing the machine to go nuts, so they probably would have found no problem in the factory anyway. So I rejected the RMA idea.

Two weeks ago he called me with a procedure to try. After you enter the debug code and get to the first grey screen, you then type in 653274147 which is some sort of TVGOS reset; after it comes back you repeat the TVGOS setup (zip code and RF input).

It seems to reset just the listings data -- the channel lineup and recording settings persisted. About 2 days later I had listings building up again. Of course, the reset had indeed wiped out the 8-day accumulation of listings and so it only had the 1-2-8 days at first, but over the next week it all built up again. As long as you do this reset when you're in a period of 2 days of no programmed recordings, I don't think you'll miss any recordings.

It's now two weeks later, and the unit is still working just fine. I haven't lost the listings once since the reset, which is the longest I've gone since my first incident in September. Maybe it'll screw up again soon, but now I think we've got a procedure to at least get it back in a couple days. In my case, I just do the reset over the weekend when I have no regular recordings.

Looking at the debug screens, the only odd thing I see is that lots of the packet counters are sometimes zero'd out, including the Pass / Fail counters and lots of the VBIstats numbers, which are usually very much non-zero. I do see the download history and everything else looks normal, just lots of counters remain at zero.

If it hits again, I'll try this TVGOS reset and report here on the results. For now I'm happy with the unit again.

I would think a hard reset back to factory settings would accomplish the same thing, except that you would lose any TVGOS settings. Why didn't you try that first?

I gave up on resets. I have all my programs set to record after the unit lasted 8 days ( a miracle in itself). I lose the guide now about twice a week, and it usually lasts 1 day and there back. Even when down, I can still program with search guide. I am pretty happy now that I stop resetting every satuarday.


LDK

I gave up on resets. I have all my programs set to record after the unit lasted 8 days ( a miracle in itself). I lose the guide now about twice a week, and it usually lasts 1 day and there back. Even when down, I can still program with search guide. I am pretty happy now that I stop resetting every satuarday.LDK

That whole "losing EPG" thing seems to happen mostly on the Pioneers. I wonder why.

My cable system recently added some channels. On the day the new channels were to be effective, I got the rebuilding message on my 531. I expected this, due to the additional channels.

I continue to lose my guide 1-2 times a week, with it coming back on it's own without any action needed by me.

I guess I'm glad Pioneer builds electronic entertainment equipment instead of cars. If my car failed to start once a week, I'd probably be out of a job.

I have learned to take a few minutes to go through the guide while it is available and mark any programs I might be interested in recording in the next few days. That way, when the guide flakes out I still have the good stuff marked, and it continues to record - whether the guide is available or not.

You should be aware that it is possible for the guide on the Pioneers to loose data in such a way that shows scheduled via the guide will not record. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6399149&&#post6399149) for details.

For critical shows that you absolutely must record, it's safer to schedule them manually (by pressing the "Timer Rec" button on the remote).

Hi all, New here. First I'd like to thank all of you for your valuable info. I'll tell my expierence with my Pioneer 633 h-s. I never got the TVGOS to download at all. It just kept cycling through all the channels. I went out and bought an OTA antenna, no luck. Funny thing happened I set it up again and the cycling stopped, still no data but at least I can set the timer manually. Thanks again for all your help, Dennis

Hi all. I live in New York City and recently bought a Pioneer 633H-S and use Time Warner Cable. I never got any TVGOS info at all. I sent an email to tech support at TW and got a reply that said they don't support TVGOS. When I spoke to Pioneer they said they were working with TW to resolve the issue so I just assume it won't be working for awhile. Till then its manual timer I guess. Thank's for all your help, Dennis

For critical shows that you absolutely must record, it's safer to schedule them manually (by pressing the "Timer Rec" button on the remote).

I don't think there is such a thing as a "critical show".

After all, it's just TV.

THanks for the tip, though.

Just checking in to report on my experience, and bump this thread up in case some newbies are running into this problem.

Since doing the "TVGOS reset" I described above on Nov. 21st, my unit has performed flawlessly. Previously the longest it had run was 4 weeks; right now I'm at 6 weeks straight.

At the same time that I did the reset, I improved my antenna setup to improve reception of the EPG data carrier in my market (WGTV / Ch. 8 / Atlanta). Obviously I don't know which of these two steps fixed it, but the problems have definitely not recurred. So my theory is that IF the EPG VBI data signal is weak, and lots of packets are getting missed or corrupted, then the unit sometimes gets itself into a screwed up state.

It's important to understand that I certainly expect a weak signal to sometimes cause gaps in the EPG data, but NOT to cause the unit to go belly-up as described in this thread (no EPG display at all). Any transmission protocol can be expected to have some sort of error checking built in to protect against corrupted data. I think that somewhere in Pioneer or TV Guide's code is a bug that causes it to get upset when a lot of EPG packets (or certain important packets) are missing or corrupted; perhaps the error checking isn't working right.

So while I still hope for some sort of software upgrade to fix this, for now it's all working for me.

If I ever see this problem again, I'll be back!

I lost my TVGuide information 2+ weeks ago. I've gone through multiple resets, both TVGuide and the whole Pioneer unit (DVR-633H-S). I'm on Comcast in Edmonds, WA. Despite Comcast's assurance that they are sending the signal properly, I have my doubts. They do admit to having an outage on Dec. 6 when they switched some equipment or software, but they claim that was short and fully recovered. The DVR does not have the continuous disk activity any more. Can anyone tell me if this is normal if there's no TVGuide signal, or is this more likely a problem with the DVR? I've contacted Pioneer, and while they've tried to be helpful, we haven't been into any debugging, only reset and wait.

Just checking in to report on my experience, and bump this thread up in case some newbies are running into this problem. Since doing the "TVGOS reset" I described above on Nov. 21st, my unit has performed flawlessly. Previously the longest it had run was 4 weeks; right now I'm at 6 weeks straight.Thanks for the follow-up post, Chris. I think I might try this on my 633 and see how it goes.

Since doing the "TVGOS reset" I described above on Nov. 21st, my unit has performed flawlessly. Previously the longest it had run was 4 weeks; right now I'm at 6 weeks straight.


Chris, the reset procedure has not solved the problem for me. I used the procedure on 11/22/05 and again on 12/10/05. After both resets the data did start to return once the machine got around to asking me to select the provider for my zip code. I'm about the do the reset prodedure for the third time. Sometime since 10pm saturday night and sunday evening my DVR-531 is giving me the "Guide is rebuilding your channel list" and I had not made any setup changes this week. I did put the machine on a UPS a week ago. So apparently power fluctuations is not the problem.

There might be a pattern here though. Each of the last three problem events happened on a Saturday or Sunday.

Gary

I had the problems all of the time, losing data every 2 or 3 days when I had the unit in the beginning. I did a full reset, then changed the clock from automatic to manual and put it about 2 minutes ahead (hate missing the beginning of a recording) - I always add 10 mins extra to every programmed recording.

Since the manual clock I have zero problems - even when cable went down for 6 hours (overlapping at least 2 EPG time blocks at 10am and 2pm) things restored just nicely.

I know it's claimed clock has nothing to do with it, but that's the only thing I've changed right before the "working" reset was done. I believe the auto clock gets its setting using teletext (have to put in a channel n° to get it from) and this causes problems.

I've been without EPG data for about a week. No hard disc activity during this time.

I re-contacted Pioneer, even though they were absolutely clueless the 1st time I contacted them.

I could always search for programs, so the guide information does seem to be buried somewhere in the unit. It continued to record programs that I had setup for weekly programming.

I finally did a reset this morning. I'll leave it off for a full 24 hours to see if anything comes back.

Pioneer really screwed these units up with this sloppy EPG implementation. Aside from this continual problem, the recorder has exceeded my expectations.

Sure would be nice to get some sort of a firmware upgrade!!!

I had the problems all of the time, losing data every 2 or 3 days when I had the unit in the beginning. I did a full reset, then changed the clock from automatic to manual and put it about 2 minutes ahead (hate missing the beginning of a recording)

My cable provider (local not national provider) does not support the auto time signal. So that is not part of my problem. Thank goodness my 531 keeps very good time.

Drats. My cable provider only carries one PBS channel. I have to watch to see if it goes off the air late on the weekends. I am guilty of rearranging the channel order though...and I probably did that just before the 1st time I got the dreaded "rebuilding" message. I might have to do the hard reset (so far I've used the hack codes to force a reset) so that the channels go back to the default positions. It's possible I may have reassigned one of the channels to a different channel rather than just to a different position in the line up. I didn't really know what i was doing when I started messing with the order of the channels the first time.

Gary

I've had lots of similar experiences as yours and, in talking with Pioneer, found that TVG info is transmitted on PBS channels.

Not always true. I receive the TVGOS EPG data, over Comcast analog cable, from the CBS station in Philly.

I went to the Alabama PBS website and checked their list of stations ("About" link), their location, power, etc.

My "good" PBS station that's working for TVG now is WHIQ. It is one of the more powerful PBS stations. My "normal" station delivered by my cable provider is WAIQ. An interesting thing about this is that my normal station, which filled up only partially, then proceeded to lose days, is MORE powerful than my working WHIQ, BUT it was operating at only half power during the time I had trouble..antenna fire...and now is back up to full power. I may try my normal station again to see if power is a key?

I also found that the "NOC" (PBS ops ctr) is located in a central position in Alabama, near Birmingham, where WBIQ station is, and I'm 50 miles north and about 40 miles from WHIQ, my good-and-powerful station that is not experiencing problems like antenna fires.

I recommend anyone who is having TVG problems and is set up with DVR first in line for RF IN (from cable or antenna), check out your state's PBS website, find the stations that are most powerful AND are in your OFF channel section of channel listings. Replace any PBS station that doesn't work with the closest (for antenna) and most powerful one first and see how that works. (Make sure you turn the "bad" PBS station OFF and make the new PBS station display in the same channel as the previous one.)

This whole "good" vs "bad" PBS stations seems a bit odd. First of all, how do you even know that the PBS station carries the TVGOS EPG data? Many folks, myself included, have reported that non-PBS (in my case CBS) stations carry the EPG data.

If you are convinced that the PBS stations carry the EPG data, then I would suggest that you move your "preferred" PBS station to the top of the TVGOS list of stations, instead of turning PBS stations "off". That might work just as well. In my case the CBS station is listed at the top of my TVGOS station list and that station is where it finds the EPG data. By turning stations "off" you are prevented from recording programs from that station using the EPG, you would have to record these programs through manual timer setting.

Here are some reasons PBS may be the key:
1. A Pioneer tech. rep. told me EPG info. in sent via PBS.

And we all know how reliable CS reps from the manufacturers are...! Just because a rep told you that EPG data are carried on PBS stations does not make it true. Again, my recorder receives it's EPG data from the Philly CBS station.

2. My many experiments have proved, to me at least, that PBS plays a key role in EPG success/failure.

This may be true in your area, but that doesn't mean that it holds true for the rest of the nation. Don't overgeneralize.

3. When my subscribed PBS station was transmitting at half power due to an antenna fire, my EPG started loading, then lost days...many times even after hard resets.

Again true for your area.

4. Another user found her TVG going bonkers over weekends. PBS channels go off air on weekends at times...Alabama PBS goes off for a few hours arund modnight on Sat. and from midnight to 7:00 am Monday Monday.

Again maybe true for her area. I had a momentary disruption in the EPG data stream recently (caused by a change in the channel lineup for my cable provider), which prevented the download of EPG data for a couple of days. My EPG did not go "bonkers", it just was missing a couple of days programming, which was replaced subsequently.

5. Why would a for-profit network, like CBS, use some of their bandwidth to send a signal that would allow users to find and view programs from OTHER networks (no money in that!).

Little or no bandwidth is used to send the EPG data. It is carried in the VBI portion of the signal that also carries TV program info, such as the program name and closed caption data.

You might do a test to see whether you are really receiving your EPG via CBS: note the channel the DVR is tuned to when you go to the setup screens and see if that channel shows as the one EPG is sent on. Try that with various channels?

Panasonics do not work that way (at least my DMR-E500 doesn't). There is no indication whatsoever which channel is being used to download the EPG data.

Anyway, there is no need to do any test. The TVGOS debug screen lists which channel the TVGOS EPG is received on. On my recorder, that channel is listed as channel 2, which is the cable channel that I receive the Philly CBS station, KYW, on.

I suggest that you look at the TVGOS debug screen on your recorder to determine exactly which channel is providing the EPG data. That will solve the mystery.

It is quite possible that more than 1 broadcast station transmits EPG data. Some posters report that the local Fox station transmits the EPG data.

Anyway, good luck with your search. The only reason that I am posting this is so that newbies trying get their TVGOS EPG to work won't think that they must receive it from a local PBS station.

To "Newbies" or "Nerdnots" only:

Try switching your PBS station...it's really easy and, I promise, you won't owe me a thing!

What does your TVGOS debug screen say is the channel that it receives the EPG data from? Check it out and get back to us. Do you know how to check the debug screen?

My debug screens show that my host channel is 13, which is my PBS channel.

In fact, I have 2 PBS channels active on my cable service. I am turning the one that is not showing as the host channel to see if that improves my EPG retention.

I did a reset a few days ago and the guide is loading days now and has been available since the programming started loading. It always seems to be reliable until I get all 8 days loaded. Then the guide starts to get flaky.

I did hear back from Pioneer customer service. They indicated that losing the EPG is a known problem with the TVGOS software. The TVGOS people are supposedly working on a fix, but no date is known.

Have been considering purchasing 531 / 533 but this tvg thing has kept me from doing so. What is the difference between the Pioneer EPG and what you get via Tivo. I have had a Tivo for over a year now and never any problem at all with the TV listings. Really want to try the Pioneer but a lot a very negative posts and problems with the TV gudie feature.

The TVGOS is a free knockoff of Tivo. It comes from TVGOS, who has an on-line demo.

The EPG is pretty good - when it works. As you've seen in this thread, a good number of people have had difficulty getting the EPG to load. Once loaded, it often disappears for days.

My guess is that you've had the Tivo interface, you will be disappointed with the EPG offered by these recorders.

To "Newbies" or "Nerdnots" only:

Try switching your PBS station...it's really easy and, I promise, you won't owe me a thing!

Hi wabjxo. Thanks for all your helpful comments wrt to the TVGOS problem. My simple story is that I bought the 533H at the end of October. It took a long time to get the TV listings but they did come and stayed solid for about a month and a half. Then everything disappeared. My scheduled programs stilled taped but, unlike others, even my search function was gone. It stayed like that for more than 2 weeks. I then found this thread.

I've done the hard reset, the soft code reset always with the same result. Once I power off (being sure not to hit the power off button more than once) I get EPG displayed but no noise (I used to hate that grinding noise - now I crave it!). It just sits there for 24 hours - no noise.

I can't change my PBS channels as you suggest because there is no mapping of the channels to the stations in the TV Guide window. I just get "There is no data for this screen".

I didn't check to see what my host channel was before the first soft reset so I don't know what station it was using in the past.

I guess my question is, is this normal? I mean, no noise at all for 24hrs with the EPG symbol in the display? Also, seeing the "There is no data for this screen" message after 24hrs - not even a channel listing?

It was working so well for almost 2 months. Help!!

Hi wabjxo

Just some comments questions...

Following your set of instructions

1) I only use RF into the DVR (no boxes etc.) so no problems there

2) done

3) done

4) Can't get the Host Chan it is blank at this point. I have noticed from other posts that this can remain blank for days even after listing information is filling in (e.g. ChrisC47). Do you really see you host channel right after the hard reset?

5) Have done this several times and I get nothing in the morning - not even a listing of the channels, let alone the listing information filled in. Should I at least see the channel list? I see nothing except the "There is no data for this screen".

6) I'm happy to assume that my host is a PBS station. However, If the TVG is not working how can I look down my channel list. There is none. Only the "There is no data for this screen" message.

I'd like to try the remaining steps but for the reason mentioned above I'm stuck at step 6.

Also, how can you get your listings without the grinding noise? I don't mind it. you get used to it after a while. It tells you that the TVGOS is working - ot at least trying to.

Thanks again.

There's a disconnect on my end or yours...the channel list I'm referring to is not the TVG "LISTINGS" in the top bar, it's the "Change channel display" item in the "SETUP" item of the top bar. Sorry.

You shouldn't have anything in the LISTINGS until some time with DVR OFF.

However, if you have a good DVR Setup (not TVG Setup), you should have channels immediately.

Also, it's true that ou won't see Host channel immediately (mine's pretty fast) but it takes some time for the DVR to get that info...just not sure how long that is. I'd wait until tomorrow?

Hopefully, you can get to a stable point that will see if the grinding goes away, or if you just have a bad HDD.

OK. I think we are on to something. Immediately after I do the reset (your steps 1-4), if I go to the TVGuide setup (not listings) and go down to "change channel display" and press "enter" I get "There is no data for this screen". Are you suggesting that right after the reset you have the ability to do something under the "change channel display"? What do you mean by "good DVR setup"?

In fact, I don't see how you can have station information for each channel at this point. After the reset and the automatic channel tuning (DVR setup), all that the unit can know about is which of the 125 channels have a signal, not what station is present on any one of those channels. This requires additional information about your area and cable company etc. So I just assumed that this information would come with the rest of the information related to the TV listings. Am I missing something here? If I should have specific tv stations associated with each channel after the DVR initial setup then I do have a problem.

Please keep it online, I have the same situation as treedmack as I'm sure many others do, At this point, I too, have no listings and no channels to view or edit under Setup, just EPG displayed and no HD activity......Thanx

Please keep it online, I have the same situation as treedmack as I'm sure many others do, At this point, I too, have no listings and no channels to view or edit under Setup, just EPG displayed and no HD activity......Thanx

That's fine with me. I learned a lot from other's comments here. I just sent wabjxo a quick message:

I'm a bit worried. Should I have station information after the DVR setup. I can't remember when i initially set it up in October. If I should have this information then this may be my problem.

I'm a bit worried. Should I have station information after the DVR setup. I can't remember when i initially set it up in October. If I should have this information then this may be my problem

I believe I had channels listed minus Station info, immediatly after setup, It all loaded fine for a couple of days and now nothing, I have done the factory reset and accessed the code pages and there is nothing listed for Host ch. :confused:

Just for everyone's benefit, here is what wabjxo replied and my comments.

> Yes, you should see your channel lineup after a proper DVR Setup. You are on cable, right?

Yes.

> Try this to make sure you've actually got a channel lineup.

> Open the TV GUIDE menu, press the MENU button (top right around the ENTER button). In the side menu that opens on the left, arrow up to the "Go to menu bar" option and press Enter. You should be in the (top) Menu bar. Arrow left to SETUP. Arrow down to Change channel display. Press Enter. That should show you a list of all the channels your DVR found during Setup.

I do this (and have done this) and I get "there is no data for this screen"

> If you don't have any channels, something is bad wrong. If you have channels, you can proceed from there.

I have channels. They just don't have station information associated with them. That is, I can change channels to any of the channels tuned in during the DVR setup.

I wish I could recall whether I had the information you describe the first time I set this up in October. I seem to think I did.

Does anyone else have my situation? Marxon?

Do others get the behavior described by wabjxo after a hard reset?

> Let me know.
>>
>>
>> Hi wabjxo.
>>
>> I'm a bit worried. Should I have station information after the DVR setup. I can't remember when i initially set it up in October. If I should have this information then this may be my problem
>>
>> T
>>
>>

OK Will do thnx

He, treedmack, from your email it appears you're in Canada?

If that's right, that's great! I've got at least one question for you:

Does Canada have "PBS" or an equivalent "Public" (not-for-profit) broadcasting system/network?

If not, I won't be much help...I only know that people in Victoria still have "High Tea and crumpets" and I prefer Lipton with a cracker.

Yep, Canadian, AND in Victoria! You're like the Amazing Carnac or something.

We have something like PBS but I think we must get listing info from your PBS stations.

Have yet to go for high tea at the Empress - Lived in Cambridge England for 5 years so got my fill of the stuff.

Here back home I tend to hang out with Bob and Doug with a few brewskis and some back bacon while we watch the sled races.

I'm in the Seattle area. I set my clock to use the local PBS station, KCTS/9. How does TVGOS determine which station to use for data? Does it scan all available stations? Does it try the one I chose for clock setting? Is there any way to find out what stations carry the TVGuide signal in my area?

I am still without listings after more than 3 weeks :( . I have an open call with Pioneer, but haven't heard from them in 2 weeks. I tried to call them last week, but all I got was a busy signal. They were contacting TVGOS for information on helping me. Is there any way to short cut this and talk directly to TVGOS?

Thanks.

I'm in the Seattle area. I set my clock to use the local PBS station, KCTS/9. How does TVGOS determine which station to use for data? Does it scan all available stations? Does it try the one I chose for clock setting? Is there any way to find out what stations carry the TVGuide signal in my area?

Thanks.

I am in Victoria BC and receive KCTS. It was one of the first channels I tried to use to auto set the clock. it didn't work for me. I tried about the first 30 channels and then gave up and went manual.

You know, it's been awhile since I had to do a hard reset and DVR Setup. I do remember waiting till the next morning and seeing a dialog sayiing the DVR "found other cable systems" and which one did I want.

Wait till tomorrow morning and see if you get the same message. If you do, select the cable system you subscribe to, then I know your channels should be available "almost immediately." If not, then for sure there is another problem to address.

OK. I checked this morning and everything seems to be identical to yesterday. I continue to get the "There is no data for this screen" when trying to use the TV Guide listings or the "change channel display" under setup in the TV guide section. No Host Chan yet either under the debug menu.

Two things give me hope, however,

1) when I flick through the channels on my DVR and set the display for maximum information (i.e. I hit the display button three times till it shows a thick blue strip above a thin green strip across the top of the screen with text in each) I can see for some channels their call letters at the top right rather than the channel number and the title of the show that is currently on. This happens for about 25% of the channels right now. I'm sure I didn't see this yesterday - although I am tempted to do another full reset to verify this. It takes about a second for the channel number to change into the call letters and the show title to appear. This makes me think that this might just be information in the immediate broadcast rather than TVGOS info it picked up last night. So don't break out the left-over bubbly just yet.

2) when I went to power off the unit it did not go off right away like you suggested in another post. i kept a close eye on the display and it eventually went to channel 32 just before powering off. It then started it's grinding noises for about 15 seconds. it is now silent again. I checked and 32 is a music channel (Much More Music - a second Canadian music channel like an MTV). Not really a channel I would think should carry the TVGOS signal. I checked the host channel under the debug menu after this and still nothing.

I guess I will leave it for another day. i do recall it originally taking a long time before to set up and fill in the schedule the first time. At that time I didn't care one way or the other. I was just going to manually set the timer to record like my old VCRs. Once the listings did come in, however, I noticed that the TVGOS put titles in for each of the recordings making it much easier to parse the list of shows on the hard drive of the 533. That is a function I got addicted to. If I could even type in a title for the recording at the time I set the timer to record it I think I could live without the TVGOS listings. Unfortunately I have to wait until a recording is completed to give it a title. A shame for shows that are recorded daily and weekly etc. Allowing a title to be passed from the record setting would be so much more efficient.

I'll keep you posted.

2-Sounds like the process is just slow up there...or maybe a sled ran across your cable? Do they have Trifectas on sled racing up there? Maybe time will fill things up.


Too much trouble. Once you manage to get all the dogs and sleds together at the start, all you manage to get in is about one race - then it's off to the curling rink for the evening.

What cable system do you subscribe to, and what is your zip code (that weird alpha-numeric thing)?

Shaw cable Victoria BC

postal code: V8N 5R1

don't forget, it worked for almost 2 months before the "wait 24hr for rebuild" message came up and started off this problem

I too am in B.C. Checked unit this morning (2nd 24hr period) and nothing, I've only had this unit since Xmas and the listings lasted 3 days.

(If my sled dogs gave me this much grief I'd put em down) ;)

I too am in B.C. Checked unit this morning (2nd 24hr period) and nothing, I've only had this unit since Xmas and the listings lasted 3 days.

(If my sled dogs gave me this much grief I'd put em down) ;)

Hi Marxon. mines a bust. i just did a hard reset and have everything I described in my previous post today. Nothing happened over night. I have read elsewhere about people being provided with alternate postal codes. I'm going to look for these again and see what I can find. more later.

I got this information from:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14412549

see post by Himadri 2005-10-29 13:33:15

I have seen this elsewhere too.

It seems that you have to leave a message and they may get back to you with an alternate zip/postal code

I received the Pioneer DVR-533h-S for Christmas. After initial setup it took about 2 days to receive a full 8 day schedule. Of course I didn't have it off the entire time because I wanted to play around with it. On New Years Eve I noticed after midnight that the schedule had dissapeared and where the listings were normally displayed there was a black box with the message "rebuilding program list based on your new settings". The only setting I had changed was to prevent the program guide from being displayed every time I turned on the unit. When I turned off the unit it displayed EPG on the front panel but I noticed that there was no hard drive activity like there usually is in this state. When I checked it the next day there was no change. By referencing the manual, I discovered how to reset the unit by pressing Stop and On/Standby. That did not seem to help. Finally after some Google searches I stumbled across this thread. Based on the information I read in this thread I implemented the following solution:
1. I went into the program guide, selected system settings and punched in 753159852 to enter the program guide system info.
2. I punched in 653274147 to reset the program guide.
3. After the system reset I went back into the program guide and repeated the initial setup wizard.
4. I put the tuner on channel 12 which is my local PBS station that I also use to auto set the time and I had previously used to download the program guide.
5. I turned off the machine and the EPG was displayed on the front panel.
6. After about an hour I noticed that EPG had disappeared from the front panel so I turned on the unit. The message "please wait" was displayed for abouit 30 seconds then the program guide came on with the channel lineup however no information was indicated for every channel.
7. I placed the unit back on channel 12 and turned it off. EPG was again displayed on the front pannel.
8. After about an hour EPG disappeared again so I turned on the unit. When the program guide came up it displayed the following message: TV Guide On Screen has found two Cable-Ready Linups in your area. Please select the one that applies to you. It displayed "Comcast Cable" twice with a different 4 digit code next to each one. It said to contact my service provider if I didn't know which one I have. Well I'm sure it will come as no suprise to anyone that when I contacted Comcast they couldn't give me an answer. I also did some searching on the Web, consulted my cable bill and looked at the Comcast website and could not find an answer. Finally I just picked one and shut off the machine. The EPG indicator was again displayed on the front pannel and I went to bed. That was last night. When I checked it this morning I had 2 days of programming and there was activity on the hard drive when the unit was off.

It looks like the unit is working fine again. I suspect that there was a hickup in the EPG feed from PBS which caused the unit to loose the info. I also suspect that I did not have to perform a complete system reset which erased all of my settings including recording schedule and customized channel view. If it happens again I'm going to only perform the Program Guide reset. I think this is a great unit and I'm not dissapointed at all with it, even if I have to occasionally reset the program guide. Once I setup my entire recording schedule then the program guide isn't that useful anyways. I think the main issue is that this is a FREE program guide and inconsistant performance may be something you just have to accept for a subscription free service. If you want better performance then you probably have to go with a Tivo.

Also, I'd like to thank everyone who posted their experience with this issue. I couldn't have solved my problem without this info.

I received the Pioneer DVR-533h-S for Christmas. After initial setup it took about 2 days to receive a full 8 day schedule. Of course I didn't have it off the entire time because I wanted to play around with it. On New Years Eve I noticed after midnight that the schedule had dissapeared and where the listings were normally displayed there was a black box with the message "rebuilding program list based on your new settings". The only setting I had changed was to prevent the program guide from being displayed every time I turned on the unit. When I turned off the unit it displayed EPG on the front panel but I noticed that there was no hard drive activity like there usually is in this state. When I checked it the next day there was no change. By referencing the manual, I discovered how to reset the unit by pressing Stop and On/Standby. That did not seem to help. Finally after some Google searches I stumbled across this thread. Based on the information I read in this thread I implemented the following solution:
1. I went into the program guide, selected system settings and punched in 753159852 to enter the program guide system info.
2. I punched in 653274147 to reset the program guide.
3. After the system reset I went back into the program guide and repeated the initial setup wizard.
4. I put the tuner on channel 12 which is my local PBS station that I also use to auto set the time and I had previously used to download the program guide.
5. I turned off the machine and the EPG was displayed on the front panel.
6. After about an hour I noticed that EPG had disappeared from the front panel so I turned on the unit. The message "please wait" was displayed for abouit 30 seconds then the program guide came on with the channel lineup however no information was indicated for every channel.
7. I placed the unit back on channel 12 and turned it off. EPG was again displayed on the front pannel.
8. After about an hour EPG disappeared again so I turned on the unit. When the program guide came up it displayed the following message: TV Guide On Screen has found two Cable-Ready Linups in your area. Please select the one that applies to you. It displayed "Comcast Cable" twice with a different 4 digit code next to each one. It said to contact my service provider if I didn't know which one I have. Well I'm sure it will come as no suprise to anyone that when I contacted Comcast they couldn't give me an answer. I also did some searching on the Web, consulted my cable bill and looked at the Comcast website and could not find an answer. Finally I just picked one and shut off the machine. The EPG indicator was again displayed on the front pannel and I went to bed. That was last night. When I checked it this morning I had 2 days of programming and there was activity on the hard drive when the unit was off.

It looks like the unit is working fine again. I suspect that there was a hickup in the EPG feed from PBS which caused the unit to loose the info. I also suspect that I did not have to perform a complete system reset which erased all of my settings including recording schedule and customized channel view. If it happens again I'm going to only perform the Program Guide reset. I think this is a great unit and I'm not dissapointed at all with it, even if I have to occasionally reset the program guide. Once I setup my entire recording schedule then the program guide isn't that useful anyways. I think the main issue is that this is a FREE program guide and inconsistant performance may be something you just have to accept for a subscription free service. If you want better performance then you probably have to go with a Tivo.

Also, I'd like to thank everyone who posted their experience with this issue. I couldn't have solved my problem without this info.


That's great DayTrader! Congrats!

It's nice to hear a success story.

I do everything you do - including turning off the unit with my local PBS channel (19). One question: When you did the hard rest, did you see the channel lineup (with no data of course) in the TV guide section? All I get is "There is no data for this screen" as described in my previous posts.

That's great DayTrader! Congrats!

It's nice to hear a success story.

I do everything you do - including turning off the unit with my local PBS channel (19). One question: When you did the hard rest, did you see the channel lineup (with no data of course) in the TV guide section? All I get is "There is no data for this screen" as described in my previous posts.

Treedmack,
When I did the complete system reset, the message in the program guide changed from "rebuilding channel linup based on your new settings" to "There is no data for this screen". That message remained even after I performed the TV Guide reset. Then as I said, about an hour or two after I performed the TV Guide reset the EPG indicator disappeared and when I turned on the unit the Listings section of the TV Guide was finally populated with channels but all indicated "no information" for each channel.

Hope this works for you. Good luck.

Thnx DayTrader, wabjxo.

Not much else to do but wait. it's back to work tomorrow so time will pass quickly and things may sort themselves out without me tinkering all the time. I'll let you know

Shaw cable Victoria BC

postal code: V8N 5R1

don't forget, it worked for almost 2 months before the "wait 24hr for rebuild" message came up and started off this problem

Hello there,
I am having exactly the same problem as you. It properly loaded the EPG for quite a few months, with only the occasional drop. But in the last two weeks, it has become unstable, and now I can't load anything! I am with Shaw Cable in Calgary. I suspect Shaw Cable is screwing up the EPG Guide.

If you have Shaw Cable and your PBS station is KCTS in Seattle, WA, try changing your zip code in TV GUIDE > SETUP > Change system settings
to U.S. zip code 98105.

That's the zip for your Seattle PBS station. Normally, people in the U.S. shouldn't change their zip code to fool "Mother EPG," but in your stymied situation, it just might work.

Maybe...just maybe...EPG was not set up to fully implement the alpha-numeric Canadian postal codes???????????


I tried something like this today. Then I thought more about it (while bedding the dogs down for the evening). See if this makes sense:

1) When your unit (pioneer 533/633H) comes out of the box it must have stored in its memory a prescribed list of pairs of zip/postal codes and host channels. The reason I doubt that it scans for a host channel is that the unit DOES NOT scan for auto time setting. I've had VCRs from the mid 90s that found a time signal on their own with no turn-on turn-off instructions or requiring a specific channel to be provided

2) This means that there is a host channel for every zip/postal code. Hence your experience wabjxo that you had to shift PBS channels up to your specified host channel one-by-one (for a fixed zip code) until you found the most stable.

3) The alternative is to call Gemstar and get them to provide you with an alternative zip/Postal code. Now, the goal of this alternative zip/postal code is to change the host channel from your current number to a new number that has TVGOS information for your area. If the firmware some how had the ability to allow you to change the host channel then all of this would be a lot easier and you would not have to mess with alternative zip/postal codes. I don't think you can accomplish this by simply specifying the zip/postal code for a new area. An arbitrary postal code will, in general, imply an arbitrary host channel that will, in general, not carry the TVGOS information => dead end.

No. Two pieces of information are required: an understanding of the channel lineup of the person's local cable provider, and, what alternative zip/postal is paired up with a valid host channel for your area.

OR, if you had a list of the zip/postal codes that corresponded to each channel then you could just pick and choose your host channel by specifying the appropriate zip/postal code at reset. So,

Now the Suggestion:

For those who read this forum AND know their host channel, If you could tell us your two critical pieces of information:

(zip/postal code, host channel)

The idea is, if we get enough people to post, then people can see if any of their local PBS channels match up with any of these zip/postal codes then they can try using the zip/postal codes in their resets. Once they get some response then they can follow wabjxo's method of moving optimum PBS channels to the specified host channel. Until you get a valid host channel for your area your hands are tied (this assumes of course that your cable company does not strip the TVGOS info from valid host channels in your area - e.g. Rogers Cable in Canada).

I'd love to be the first to provide my two numbers. But I didn't know about the debug screen when my unit was getting TVGOS listings. I have started a new Thread to get this information from people.

Sorry, I meant to include this in the last message. The new thread is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=625388

When your unit (pioneer 533/633H) comes out of the box it must have stored in its memory a prescribed list of pairs of zip/postal codes and host channels.It seems to me that I read a post at some point that said the postal code / zip code is needed to tell the unit which of the several possible cable lineups / channel lineups you can use. Take KCTS as an example - it's available over the air in Seattle, Bellingham, Victoria, and other areas, and also via several cable providers with different channel lineups. The guide data carried over KCTS (if indeed it is carried on that channel) could include information that indicates which postal codes a particular channel's data is valid for.

If this is true, then the recorder doesn't need a built-in zipcode-to-host table. Indeed, this would be much superior because in all of Canada and the US these pairings could change fairly frequently.

Do they make a different DVR for Canada so you can fit 6 alpha-numeric digits in the 5-digit (and only 5!) zip code field in TVG SETUP???????????????

Not sure if they're any different, you must choose USA or Canada upon Initial setup, from there you enter the respective codes...............

It seems to me that I read a post at some point that said the postal code / zip code is needed to tell the unit which of the several possible cable lineups / channel lineups you can use. Take KCTS as an example - it's available over the air in Seattle, Bellingham, Victoria, and other areas, and also via several cable providers with different channel lineups. The guide data carried over KCTS (if indeed it is carried on that channel) could include information that indicates which postal codes a particular channel's data is valid for.

If this is true, then the recorder doesn't need a built-in zipcode-to-host table. Indeed, this would be much superior because in all of Canada and the US these pairings could change fairly frequently.

Hi Sean. You raise an interesting point. Constantly changing station lineups of local cable companies mean that a built-in zipcode-to-host table would not work well. It would not work well for my suggestion of specifying a host. However, it would be equally true that it would not work well for your suggestion of identifying the local master PBS station that would have up-to-date host channel information.

Somehow, with no other information, the zip/postal code connects the unit up with a host that provides the TVGOS information. Perhaps the zip/postal code provides the first guess of the host (or local PBS station). If this is accurate then listings come quickly as some people have posted. If this guess is inaccurate then perhaps the unit has the ability to scan for a host (or local PBS station) and this takes much longer. Once it finds the first station broadcasting it locks in - no matter how poor the signal. This presumably can be fiddled by moving a better PBS station up to the first guess location. I'm just guessing now.

Don't forget, Gemstar provides people with alternate zip/postal codes which sets them onto the right host so there must be some type of built-in zipcode-to-host table. Geez! Somebody set this all up. You'd think there'd be a web site somewhere that would outline all this stuff without us having to reverse engineer its operation!

Do they make a different DVR for Canada so you can fit 6 alpha-numeric digits in the 5-digit (and only 5!) zip code field in TVG SETUP???????????????

No. They are the same. I tried a Seattle zip after a hard reset today. It's when you specify that you are in the USA that it offers the 5 digit zip on the next screen. If you specify Canada it offers the 6 digit (letter-number alternating) postal code on the next screen. Give it a try on your next hard reset (you know there'll be another reset in your future).

Has anyone been able to verify that cable Internet poses a problem to TVGOS?

I found this:
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/forum/about223.html

My TVGOS worked for almost two months and I have cable Internet but perhaps there were some changes that lead to my current problems.

Has anyone been able to verify that cable Internet poses a problem to TVGOS?

I found this:
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/forum/about223.html

My TVGOS worked for almost two months and I have cable Internet but perhaps there were some changes that lead to my current problems.

I have both TVGOS and cable high-speed internet, and the TVGOS works perfectly on my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 DVD recorders. No problems here.

Has anyone been able to verify that cable Internet poses a problem to TVGOS?

I found this:
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/forum/about223.html

My TVGOS worked for almost two months and I have cable Internet but perhaps there were some changes that lead to my current problems.

I have Comcast High Speed Internet and asside from the slight hickup I described in an earlier post, it works ok for me. I have Comcast Cable in the Hartford Connecticut area and I use Public Channel 12.

I think the main issue with the TVGOS that no one seems to want to address is the fact that IT IS A FREE SERVICE. If anyone thinks for a second that a free service that relies on local (not for profit) PBS stations to distribute the content is going to be as sophisticated and stable as TIVO or Microsoft then their their smoking crack.

My take on it is that "it is what it is" and once I setup my recording schedule then it isn't that important anyways. Besides the timed recording feature works just fine also.

I think the main issue with the TVGOS that no one seems to want to address is the fact that IT IS A FREE SERVICE. If anyone thinks for a second that a free service that relies on local (not for profit) PBS stations to distribute the content is going to be as sophisticated and stable as TIVO or Microsoft then their their smoking crack.

I agree with you that as a free service, one should not complain if it does not work as smoothly as a fee-for-service product. But I think you are missing the point that many disgruntled (especially Pioneer) users complain of. That is the fact that it is difficult, on some recorders, to disable the TVGOS EPG. Free is nice, but free, not working, and difficult to bypass, is not.

I happen to really like the TVGOS EPG and it works almost flawlessly on my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 DVD recorders. BTW, I get the TVGOS EPG over a commercial network station, KYW (CBS) in the Philly area.

Here's a link to a site that discribes the process involved in distributing the TVGOS EPG data: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=-1&sid=-1&aid=79

I agree with you that as a free service, one should not complain if it does not work as smoothly as a fee-for-service product. But I think you are missing the point that many disgruntled (especially Pioneer) users complain of. That is the fact that it is difficult, on some recorders, to disable the TVGOS EPG. Free is nice, but free, not working, and difficult to bypass, is not.

I happen to really like the TVGOS EPG and it works almost flawlessly on my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 DVD recorders. BTW, I get the TVGOS EPG over a commercial network station, KYW (CBS) in the Philly area.

Here's a link to a site that discribes the process involved in distributing the TVGOS EPG data: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=-1&sid=-1&aid=79

Point taken. I believe I read somewhere that if you reset the machine and redo the initial setup process and when it prompts you for zip code to just cancel out and the TVGOS will be disabled.

I have tried every possible connection strategy to get my TVGOS to load without success. I have the Pio 533 and comcast digital in central NJ. My most recent attempt is to split the cable input with one going to the Cable box and the other to the DVR. Has anyone had sussess with similar setup. If so what has worked?

Thanks
Lou

I have tried every possible connection strategy to get my TVGOS to load without success. I have the Pio 533 and comcast digital in central NJ. My most recent attempt is to split the cable input with one going to the Cable box and the other to the DVR. Has anyone had sussess with similar setup. If so what has worked?

Thanks
Lou

That is exactly how mine is setup and the TVGOS seems to be working pretty good for now. I would definitely suggest to anyone having problems to first try connecting the cable directly to the unit thus bypassing any cable box or satalite tuner. If you can get it to update when the cable is directly hooked up to the unit then you can start adding in other devices.

I have tried every possible connection strategy to get my TVGOS to load without success. I have the Pio 533 and comcast digital in central NJ. My most recent attempt is to split the cable input with one going to the Cable box and the other to the DVR. Has anyone had sussess with similar setup. If so what has worked?

Thanks
Lou

Same here, that is how I have my system set up. The disadvantage is that the EPG will not contain any of the digital channels, just the analog ones. The digital channels are recorded with a manual timer setting.

Has anyone been able to verify that cable Internet poses a problem to TVGOS?I have digital service and cable Internet via Shaw in Vancouver Canada. My TVGOS has worked, intermittently, ever since I installed my Pioneer 533 and 633. I had no problems getting TVGOS data, but from time to time the recorders do not display the listings. The recorder is getting the data because a TVGOS search shows all of the information for shows, but when you try to view the listings screen you get "Listings not available because of a setup change".

I am now 3+ weeks without EPG. My clock occasionally switches to UTC (GMT). Earlier this evening it was displaying UTC. Now it's displaying local time. Does that mean it's getting some data? Everything else about EPG is gone. The DVR has been turned off from last Wednesday evening until this eveing, with a full reset a couple days before that. Pioneer still has not responded to my Support email followup to the open case I have. It's going to the repair shop, even though I believe the problem is likely Comcast, if something positive doesn't happen this week.

I agree with you that as a free service, one should not complain if it does not work as smoothly as a fee-for-service product. But I think you are missing the point that many disgruntled (especially Pioneer) users complain of. That is the fact that it is difficult, on some recorders, to disable the TVGOS EPG. Free is nice, but free, not working, and difficult to bypass, is not.

I happen to really like the TVGOS EPG and it works almost flawlessly on my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 DVD recorders. BTW, I get the TVGOS EPG over a commercial network station, KYW (CBS) in the Philly area.

Here's a link to a site that discribes the process involved in distributing the TVGOS EPG data: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=-1&sid=-1&aid=79

For the sake of full disclosure, last night I checked the host channel I receive the TVGOS EPG on, and it has changed from channel 2 (the cable channel I receive KYW, the CBS station in Philly) to channel 4 (the cable channel I receive WPVI, the ABC station in Philly). This happened on both my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 recorders.

So it seems that the host channel for EPG download can change. Why it would change, I don't know. Perhaps the search for a new host channel is performed when the old host channel fails for some reason. Or, perhaps the search is done each time the EPG is downloaded, and a host channel is chosen that has a stable EPG signal. Regardless, it is nice to know that the TVGOS program is robust enough to search for an available host channel to find the EPG data.

For the second time, my TVGOS host channel is a commercial station and not a public PBS station. This is more evidence that the TVGOS host channel does not have to be a PBS station. I think that it is fruitless to search from PBS station to PBS station for the EPG data if you are having problems receiving EPG information. It appears that the TVGOS program (at least on Panasonic recorders) is fully capable of finding an adequate source of EPG data, if it exists, without human input, as well it should.

For the sake of full disclosure, last night I checked the host channel I receive the TVGOS EPG on, and it has changed from channel 2 (the cable channel I receive KYW, the CBS station in Philly) to channel 4 (the cable channel I receive WPVI, the ABC station in Philly). This happened on both my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 recorders.

So it seems that the host channel for EPG download can change. Why it would change, I don't know. Perhaps the search for a new host channel is performed when the old host channel fails for some reason. Or, perhaps the search is done each time the EPG is downloaded, and a host channel is chosen that has a stable EPG signal. Regardless, it is nice to know that the TVGOS program is robust enough to search for an available host channel to find the EPG data.

For the second time, my TVGOS host channel is a commercial station and not a public PBS station. This is more evidence that the TVGOS host channel does not have to be a PBS station. I think that it is fruitless to search from PBS station to PBS station for the EPG data if you are having problems receiving EPG information. It appears that the TVGOS program (at least on Panasonic recorders) is fully capable of finding an adequate source of EPG data, if it exists, without human input, as well it should.

The host channel indicated in the settings is always the channel that the unit is currently tuned to. You must have the recorder tuned to the channel you wish to download the TVGOS data from prior to turning off the unit. I've never seen an example of having the recorder tuned to one channel and having the Host Channel indicate a different channel. For example I use PBS Channel 12 to download my TVGOS. When I checked it yesterday morning I noticed that no additional days had been downloaded over night. Then I noticed that the channel was tuned to CBS 3. Then I remembered that I had a scheduled recording on that channel the night before. The recorder always remains tuned to the last station that it recorded from. So if I tune to channel 12 and turn off the unit then an hour later it turns on to record a scheduled show on channel 3, when the recording is complete the unit will shut off but remain on channel 3. I then have to remember to turn the unit on, change the channel to 12 and then turn it off.

Now as previously stated, I do have the cable directly connected to the recorder so I'm not sure about the effect of having a cable or satalite box added to the mix.

And...just to clearify, when I say "turn off" I mean standby mode. I figured everyone knows that but just wanted to make sure.

I did a "Host-channel test" at rgazzara's suggestion and noted the channel it was tuned to before going to the code screens: Channel 33.

My VBI Chan showed as 33, my Host Chan showed as 10 (PBS).

For what it's worth, the "VBI Channel" is the channel that TVGOS was currently checking while searching for EPG data. "Host channel" is the most recent channel where TVGOS successfully completed an EPG download.

For what it's worth, the "VBI Channel" is the channel that TVGOS was currently checking while searching for EPG data. "Host channel" is the most recent channel where TVGOS successfully completed an EPG download.

Actually, I believe that "VBI channel" is the channel that the recorder is currently tuned to.

The host channel indicated in the settings is always the channel that the unit is currently tuned to. You must have the recorder tuned to the channel you wish to download the TVGOS data from prior to turning off the unit. I've never seen an example of having the recorder tuned to one channel and having the Host Channel indicate a different channel.

That is not true at all!!! The "host channel" is the channel that the TVGOS last used to download the EPG data. The "VBI channel" is the channel that the recorder is currently tuned to.

You do not have to have the recorder tuned to the host channel before turning it off. It does not matter at all which channel the recorder is tuned to before you turn it off. For one simple reason, you do not know which channel the EPG is going to be downloaded from. I have had the host channel change from 2 to 4 without any input from me. I have the recorder tuned to a great variety of channels before turning it off, and I have not had anything more than a minor temporary disruption in TVGOS information since August.

When I check the TVGOS dubug screen, I get a different channel for the host channel than the channel the recorder is currently tuned to, unless, of course, they are one and the same.

Actually, I believe that "VBI channel" is the channel that the recorder is currently tuned to.

That's what I just said. It's the channel that TVGOS is currently checking for EPG data. In order to check it for EPG data, it has to tune to that channel. The way TVGOS finds a channel with EPG data is it steps through every channel it has access to and searches for the data in the VBI. If it finds an EPG data stream, it stops looking. If it doesn't, it tunes the next channel.

The way TVGOS finds a channel with EPG data is it steps through every channel it has access to and searches for the data in the VBI. If it finds an EPG data stream, it stops looking. If it doesn't, it tunes the next channel.

Hi sderby.

Could you say where you got this information about the way TVGOS "steps" through the channels?

Hi sderby.

Could you say where you got this information about the way TVGOS "steps" through the channels?

It's been discussed quite a bit in a few other threads here on avsforum. In addition, you can actually watch the process on TVGOS-capable devices that tune cable boxes through an IR blaster. When the TVGOS is searching for EPG data, you can watch it flipping through the channels (at about 1 channel ever 2 seconds) on the cable box's display (and/or through a secondary video output hooked up to the box). It begins at channel 2. If the search is interrupted by, for example, turning on the device, it resumes where it left off when the device goes back into standby.

That's what I just said. It's the channel that TVGOS is currently checking for EPG data. In order to check it for EPG data, it has to tune to that channel. The way TVGOS finds a channel with EPG data is it steps through every channel it has access to and searches for the data in the VBI. If it finds an EPG data stream, it stops looking. If it doesn't, it tunes the next channel.

I see what you are saying now. Yes, the VBI channel (which is the channel that the recorder is currently tuned to) would be the channel that the TVGOS would be checking for EPG data if it were in download mode. When it is on, however, it is not in EPG download mode. The EPG is downloaded only when the recorder if off/standby.

Yet another data point. It is 6:40pm. I set it to tape a show at 7pm. Everything looks good. At 7:10 I notice it isn't recording. I check and I have the black "rebuilding info" screen. I check the schedule and it has the name of the show I'm taping but ?? for the time/date. I proceed to tape the show manually.

Don't know if my EPG is back or not. But for some reason it lost info between 6:40 and 7 (on a tuesday)

Brian
Edit: I'm getting everything over the air. I made no setup changes recently.

You should be aware that it is possible for the guide on the Pioneers to loose data in such a way that shows scheduled via the guide will not record. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6399149&&#post6399149) for details.

For critical shows that you absolutely must record, it's safer to schedule them manually (by pressing the "Timer Rec" button on the remote).

That is not true at all!!! The "host channel" is the channel that the TVGOS last used to download the EPG data. The "VBI channel" is the channel that the recorder is currently tuned to.

You do not have to have the recorder tuned to the host channel before turning it off. It does not matter at all which channel the recorder is tuned to before you turn it off. For one simple reason, you do not know which channel the EPG is going to be downloaded from. I have had the host channel change from 2 to 4 without any input from me. I have the recorder tuned to a great variety of channels before turning it off, and I have not had anything more than a minor temporary disruption in TVGOS information since August.

When I check the TVGOS dubug screen, I get a different channel for the host channel than the channel the recorder is currently tuned to, unless, of course, they are one and the same.

OK...upon additional review of my settings, it looks like the VBI channel is set to whatever I have tuned but the Host Channel is always tuned to Channel 7 which is my local PBS station. Now channel 12 is the other PBS station I have which has a stronger signal and also carries the time signal. I'd like to have the unit use this channel as the host channel but I can't seem to make that happen. Even if I turn Channel 7 off in the channel display setting it still uses it. Is there any way to change this?

OK...upon additional review of my settings, it looks like the VBI channel is set to whatever I have tuned but the Host Channel is always tuned to Channel 7 which is my local PBS station. Now channel 12 is the other PBS station I have which has a stronger signal and also carries the time signal. I'd like to have the unit use this channel as the host channel but I can't seem to make that happen. Even if I turn Channel 7 off in the channel display setting it still uses it. Is there any way to change this?

The only thing I could suggest is to move channel 12 to the top of your TVGOS listing. But I have a feeling that won't work because I think TVGOS goes down the channel list in numeric order, so 7 comes before 12.

Why is channel 7 not sufficient? Are you receiving TV OTA?

The only thing I could suggest is to move channel 12 to the top of your TVGOS listing. But I have a feeling that won't work because I think TVGOS goes down the channel list in numeric order, so 7 comes before 12.

Why is channel 7 not sufficient? Are you receiving TV OTA?

Yes I am receiving updates but its taking a long time for all 8 days to come in. Much longer then when I initially setup the unit. Since channel 12 has a much stronger signal (better picture) and also provides the auto clock adjust feed then I'd like to try to set it as the host channel to see if the TVGOS listings download faster.

I heard back from Pioneer Customer Service regarding the EPG problem with the Pioneer 531/533/633 models.

It is a problem with the TVGOS software. TVGOS is aware of the problem, but has no timeline for a fix.

The only workaround appears to be a reset of either the unit or the TVGOS system. According to Pioneer, this will get the EPG working for "awhile".

My experience has been consistent in that the EPG loads successfully after a reset and continues to update successfully until all 8 days are loaded.

It then disappears, sometimes coming back, sometimes not.

I don't think any of the tricks or techniques described here is going to fix the EPG in these units.

We have a catch 22 situation with all this. Pioneer shrugs it's shoulders and blames the problem on TVGOS. TVGOS, doesn't accept calls from other than cable companies and manufacturers, and has no other available support tools.

From what I've been able to read by searching for TVGOS, the problems with their system are very common and are not resolved quickly, if ever. From what I've read, TVGOS takes the same approach Pioneer has taken by blaming problems on cable providers, tv stations, etc.

If you have one of these units and can return it, that is probably the best course of action. Going with a digital cable guide provided by either a sat or cable provider and a DVR will probably be the most reliable method of using an EPG and recording. A non hard drive DVD recorder can be used, if needed, as a stop gap.

Ultimately, one of the HD DVD formats will offer recorders at a reasonable price. With between 30-50 gigs per disc, an HD DVD will make a hard drive less important anyway.

It is too bad that Pioneer let these products out into the marketplace with this fatal flaw. I have always been pleased with Pioneer products, but this experience has shown me that their upfront QC is weak for their software and that they ar not effective in resolving product related products.

It is telling that many of the forums here at AVS have an official Pioneer support thread and that there is no Pioneer rep willing to step into this forum, where problems ranging from the EPG to noisy hard drives are posted almost daily.

OK...upon additional review of my settings, it looks like the VBI channel is set to whatever I have tuned but the Host Channel is always tuned to Channel 7 which is my local PBS station. Now channel 12 is the other PBS station I have which has a stronger signal and also carries the time signal. I'd like to have the unit use this channel as the host channel but I can't seem to make that happen. Even if I turn Channel 7 off in the channel display setting it still uses it. Is there any way to change this?

If you change the zip code in setup, it will clear the host channel and TVGOS will start searching for a new one. To keep it from re-finding the old one, you may have to turn that channel "off" in your device (if there's a way to set channels on and off in that device).

If all else fails, you can reset TVGOS entirely by entering TVGOS, highlighting "Setup," pressing the "down" key, then keying "653274147" on your remote. If you have the latest firmware revision, this will reset the clock and host channel, but it should preserve any listings currently loaded into the guide.

It is a problem with the TVGOS software. TVGOS is aware of the problem, but has no timeline for a fix.



Even if there was a fix for the software problem, it seems that there is no possibility of performing a firmware upgrade to the pioneer 531/533/633 models to correct this problem. Does this mean we are indefinitely stuck with this? I think I read somewhere in the manual that a firmware upgrade required that these units be brought in an performed by a technician. How ridiculous!

Yes I am receiving updates but its taking a long time for all 8 days to come in. Much longer then when I initially setup the unit. Since channel 12 has a much stronger signal (better picture) and also provides the auto clock adjust feed then I'd like to try to set it as the host channel to see if the TVGOS listings download faster.

For what it's worth, it should take exactly 6 days to get a full 8 days of listings. Each program listing download retrieves today's listings, tomorrow's listings and the listings for one week from today. Is it taking longer than 6 days to get a full week's worth of listings?

Even if there was a fix for the software problem, it seems that there is no possibility of performing a firmware upgrade to the pioneer 531/533/633 models to correct this problem. Does this mean we are indefinitely stuck with this? I think I read somewhere in the manual that a firmware upgrade required that these units be brought in an performed by a technician. How ridiculous!

Firmware upgrades for the TVGOS chip are sent in the VBI just like the program listings. Even if those devices can't be upgraded, TVGOS will still upgrade itself automatically. Back in March or April, there was a flurry of TVGOS upgrades sent out, but I don't think there's been any recently. The latest firmware version is (I think) 8.2.44. Of course, the downside is that if your device can't find a host station in the first place, it won't be downloading very many upgrades!

Firmware upgrades for the TVGOS chip are sent in the VBI just like the program listings. Even if those devices can't be upgraded, TVGOS will still upgrade itself automatically. Back in March or April, there was a flurry of TVGOS upgrades sent out, but I don't think there's been any recently. The latest firmware version is (I think) 8.2.44. Of course, the downside is that if your device can't find a host station in the first place, it won't be downloading very many upgrades!

Thanks for the info. Does the TVGOS version number appear on the debug screens? I'd check but I'm in my 26th consecutive hour of standby mode :-)

Thanks for the info. Does the TVGOS version number appear on the debug screens? I'd check but I'm in my 26th consecutive hour of standby mode :-)

Heh! That's a lot of standby! The version number should be on the first page of the debug screen. It'll list the revision number, build date and a few other things.

Heh! That's a lot of standby! The version number should be on the first page of the debug screen. It'll list the revision number, build date and a few other things.

I've tried everything else I could. Some of us now are suspecting problems in the signal transmission through our cable company - it worked well for me in the past and now, nothing for the past month.

I've tried everything else I could. Some of us now are suspecting problems in the signal transmission through our cable company - it worked well for me in the past and now, nothing for the past month.

If it helps, program listings are transmitted four times daily by pretty much all stations that don't go off the air at night: at 2:20am, 7:00am, 10:00am and 1:45pm (all local time). Each transmission lasts about 3 hours and they're redundant -- all four in the same day carry the same information. As long as the device is in standby late at night, it should pick up the data. (Other data is transmitted at other times -- program guide revisions, firmware upgrades, channel lineups, etc.)

If you suspect the cable company has putzed things up, you might try using an OTA antenna just to see if you get EPG data. If you get it with an OTA antenna, that's telling. Some cable companies are switching over to all digital channels these days and, since the EPG data is carried on analog channels, that breaks TVGOS.

According to the Wikipedia link above, EPG is a DTV thing. It does discuss some analog systems, but mainly in addition to DTV.

On digital channels, some program information can be (but rarely is) transmitted with the PSID, but this is not the information used by TVGOS. TVGOS uses only the Gemstar data included in the VBI of their host stations' analog transmissions. (Otherwise it couldn't be used with OTA antennae ;)

When cable companies switch to all-digital lineups (as more and more are doing), they'll often leave in one solitary analog PBS channel solely because it's necessary for TVGOS to work. Comcast in part of Michigan recently did this when they switch to all-digital. Another workaround is for the cable company to re-insert the VBI from the analog channel into the digital transmission. Time Warner Cable in New York does this.

The thing is, though, that cable companies don't make their decisions with TVGOS in mind. Generally what happens is the cable company switches to an all-digital lineup, then a bunch of customers start complaining that their TVGOS stopped working, then after a lot of clowning around, the cable company institutes a workaround (like bringing one analog channel back).

Here's a link for you and others who have KCTS PBS Seattle as their EPG source, and may explain why y'all are having trouble. They don't transmit Guide + data, which in the built-into-the-DVR EPG and which is transmitted via commercial networks! They also say they transmit Starsight (Gemstar) data stream, which a SUBSCRFIPTION service.

It also discusses the Time Signal.




Interesting indeed. If KCTS is not transmitting Guide+ data, and doesn't transmit the Gemstar TVGOS signal, well, that may be our culprit here.

I guess the key question really is, which broadcaster changed things a month ago? I guess I'll be getting on Pioneer's and Gemstar's case.

Well, to follow up for treedmack and myself, both living in Victoria...

I left my Pioneer unit alone for 48 hours. Checking on it, the time had not changed from when I set it to automatically check against channel 19 KCTS.

Start the unit up, no guide. Surf around the TV for 10 minutes, check the guide again, search listings, nothing.

Check the debug screens, no host channel listed. VBI data screens say all 0s or NA

The system screen says a number of 08.01.53/00 00 00 00 00 00 006A7F000640000
then a build time Jun 01 2005 20:07:05
P: 00000000,0,-1/0,-1

Dunno what that indicates.

Interestingly, I hit the button to go back in to standby... The display says POWERING OFF (??)

A few seconds later, it does, EPG displays in the right... but my time is now 8 hours off, set to GMT!

Start the unit back up, the time is still the same, but I can no longer set the time thru the AUTO setting, as it is greyed out.


I'm starting to think Gemstar is the issue here.

Well, to follow up for treedmack and myself, both living in Victoria...

I left my Pioneer unit alone for 48 hours. Checking on it, the time had not changed from when I set it to automatically check against channel 19 KCTS.

Start the unit up, no guide. Surf around the TV for 10 minutes, check the guide again, search listings, nothing.

Check the debug screens, no host channel listed. VBI data screens say all 0s or NA

The system screen says a number of 08.01.53/00 00 00 00 00 00 006A7F000640000
then a build time Jun 01 2005 20:07:05
P: 00000000,0,-1/0,-1

Dunno what that indicates.

Interestingly, I hit the button to go back in to standby... The display says POWERING OFF (??)

A few seconds later, it does, EPG displays in the right... but my time is now 8 hours off, set to GMT!

Start the unit back up, the time is still the same, but I can no longer set the time thru the AUTO setting, as it is greyed out.


I'm starting to think Gemstar is the issue here.

OK. After jicon's post I decided to turn my 533 back on after 31hrs on standby.

I got exactly the same behaviour!!!

One other thing to note. When i turned on the DVR my clock on the display showed the correct local time (7:03pm PT). However, the time in the debug screes was GMT (3:03am). When I turned the DVR off I got the same behaviour. After some grinding the unit turned off, EPG disappeared from the display. I went to turn the unit back on (hoping like others that something got downloaded) and the time switched to 3:04am on the display (GMT). Nothing new in the TV guide section. When I turned the unit back off it stayed on GMT and a silent EPG reappeared on the display. (Note also, the time setting - auto and manual - were grayed out). It seems like we have a clock problem. The unit says local time but the TVGOS program thinks it is GMT perhaps, if the info is being broadcast it is being missed because of the offset in time.????

p.s. Ya Team Canada!!!!

What is "standby"?

When I "turn my unit off," it almost always takes up to 20 sec. to show Powering Off, then it goes off...which is what it needs to be in "EPG mode."

I also found that things didn't work as well after we forced our unit off several times by pressing the off button twice, before we understood the normal off cycle.

If anyone does or even CAN leave the DVR in a "standby" condition, it can't receive EPG data.

Sorry. What I mean by standby is powering off. I call it standby because the drive is still going and the DVR is available for program info download.

In both jicon's and my circumstance, pushing the power off immediately puts it back to silent EPG mode. The only time I have seen the delay lately is when I have left it off over night (or for over 30hrs). It then seems to come back with GMT instead of local time.

What we are experiencing in Victoria seems very different than what others are dealing with. It seems a local cable company problem.

I still think one of the sled dogs ran over your cable!

If you decide to do a hard reset, try setting the clock manually...if you haven't tried that yet. Your PBS station states that they send time data and it may be somehow interfering with your EPG. My PBS station that's working so well does NOT send time data...maybe there's a connection, but only one way to find out.

Otherwise, it's Shaw or someone else messing with Mother EPG...or those darn dogs.

I've done it both ways. When I set the time manually AND auto after independent hard resets it goes to GMT.

This basically makes the unit unusable!!! This WAS NOT happening in October-December. Who do I complain to about this!!!

On my unit, the "power" button clearly says "STANDBY\ON" written beside it. Check again. There is no "ON/OFF" button.

Tomorrow will provide some more answers, but I really don't think this is a Shaw issue. I've had friends who work at Shaw indicating that the issue is nothing to do with the cable company supplying the broadcaster's signal.

KCTS is the only PBS station, other than a Detroit station that we receive. That specific station does not provide a Gemstar signal that TVGOS uses. Since I don't receive a host channel, or any VBI data, obviously I'm not tuned in to a channel that provides TVGOS data.

Perhaps Shaw Vancouver, or ComCast in Seattle sees no issues because there are other stations that are delivering the data... meanwhile Victoria has none?

Sleddogs are out of the question. Snow doesn't live here. Cable soaked in a puddle however... that is a different story.

On my unit, the "power" button clearly says "STANDBY\ON" written beside it. Check again. There is no "ON/OFF" button.

Tomorrow will provide some more answers, but I really don't think this is a Shaw issue. I've had friends who work at Shaw indicating that the issue is nothing to do with the cable company supplying the broadcaster's signal.

KCTS is the only PBS station, other than a Detroit station that we receive. That specific station does not provide a Gemstar signal that TVGOS uses. Since I don't receive a host channel, or any VBI data, obviously I'm not tuned in to a channel that provides TVGOS data.

Perhaps Shaw Vancouver, or ComCast in Seattle sees no issues because there are other stations that are delivering the data... meanwhile Victoria has none?

Sleddogs are out of the question. Snow doesn't live here. Cable soaked in a puddle however... that is a different story.

So who provided my TVGOS data in Oct-Dec when all was working correctly? Can your friends at Shaw at least tell us what channel(s) provided this data back then. Then we can begin to determine why it disappeared (either Shaw or host broadcast issue). Shaw has not changed its channel lineup lately has it???

I've once again performed a hard reset of my DVR - I've got to get ER tonight - it's new!

I'm working on trying to find that out. My contacts at Shaw do not know. From what they've been told, the EPG stuff is out of the company's control.

I notice that channel 30 is no longer SPIKE, but the FOOD network now... I'm unsure when that changed though.

I notice that channel 30 is no longer SPIKE, but the FOOD network now... I'm unsure when that changed though.

Here's a lineup that dates back to Nov 17 with Food on 30 and Spike on 43

http://www.mcquarrieweb.ca/canada/shaw.asp?Location=VIC

Probably not the problem

I bought a Pioneer 633 in September 05, plugged it in and set it up. The clock set automatically and the days listings were there the next day. The remainder of the guide filled in within a week. The guide worked flawlessly until sometime during the week before Christmas when all of the listings disappeared and the clock went awry. Since then I've tried fiddle-dicking with every 'solution' found in the forums to no avail. I give up!

I no longer believe that the issue is with the machine; something changed with Shaw Cable, the broadcasters or Gemstar.

Back to buying the Friday Times Communist TV Guide.

Aside from this issue, the Pioneer works very well and I like it a lot......

R. Morgan
Victoria BC Canada

Check the debug screens, no host channel listed. VBI data screens say all 0s or NA


Do you have a VBI channel listed? If not that is bad news. If the recorder cannot receive VBI data, it will not receive TVGOS EPG data. Doubtful it is Gemstar's fault.

What is "standby"?

When I "turn my unit off," it almost always takes up to 20 sec. to show Powering Off, then it goes off...which is what it needs to be in "EPG mode."

I also found that things didn't work as well after we forced our unit off several times by pressing the off button twice, before we understood the normal off cycle.

If anyone does or even CAN leave the DVR in a "standby" condition, it can't receive EPG data.

"Standby" is the actual power state of the recorder when you shut it off. It is in standby because it can still receive input from the remote control and other input such as time sync info and EPG data.

The only way to completely power off a recorder (or many other electronic devices) is to unplug it.

Back to buying the Friday Times Communist TV Guide.



Do you have Communist TV in Victoria? :D

I have a VBI channel listing (The last channel I had on the TV), BUT, I don't have a HOST channel. Regardless, I'm not receiving any VBI data.

Do you have Communist TV in Victoria? :D

Yeah, Mr. Stallin ermmm Asper runs the CanWest Global Media Empire... Television, Radio, Print... something out of a bad Bond film.

So Pioneer Canada said that there was likely a problem with Shaw. Not that he asked me where I was calling from... He also thought contacting Gemstar was difficult, and\or worthless cuz, "I never get thru when I call".

And, with only one reported issue, he didn't believe that there was indeed a city-wide problem. Besides, he'd hear from Vancouver, Penticton, all over BC if there was an issue. "This is probably not Gemstar, but a Shaw issue"

So, we have Shaw deflecting blame, blaming the broadcasters, and Pioneer Canada saying they think the problem is Shaw, and won't bother checking with Gemstar as to whether there are broadcast issues here in Victoria.

Anyone selling a green card? Can someone vote me off this island?

For what it's worth, it should take exactly 6 days to get a full 8 days of listings. Each program listing download retrieves today's listings, tomorrow's listings and the listings for one week from today. Is it taking longer than 6 days to get a full week's worth of listings?

It hasn't been a full 6 days yet. I believe today is the 6th day but it still hasn't filled in the entire schedule. It always only shows 2 days. The current day and the following day. Yesterday I could see Thursday and Friday schedules. Today I can see Friday and Saturday. That's been the pattern all week.

I have a VBI channel listing (The last channel I had on the TV), BUT, I don't have a HOST channel. Regardless, I'm not receiving any VBI data.



Yeah, Mr. Stallin ermmm Asper runs the CanWest Global Media Empire... Television, Radio, Print... something out of a bad Bond film.

So Pioneer Canada said that there was likely a problem with Shaw. Not that he asked me where I was calling from... He also thought contacting Gemstar was difficult, and\or worthless cuz, "I never get thru when I call".

And, with only one reported issue, he didn't believe that there was indeed a city-wide problem. Besides, he'd hear from Vancouver, Penticton, all over BC if there was an issue. "This is probably not Gemstar, but a Shaw issue"

So, we have Shaw deflecting blame, blaming the broadcasters, and Pioneer Canada saying they think the problem is Shaw, and won't bother checking with Gemstar as to whether there are broadcast issues here in Victoria.

Anyone selling a green card? Can someone vote me off this island?

For the heck of it, why don't you try to get the EPG data OTA? Just hook up a set of rabbit ears and reset the recorder to no cable, no cable box. That way you can be assured that the EPG data, in some form or another, is at least being transmitted in your area.

Good luck.

Yes I am receiving updates but its taking a long time for all 8 days to come in. Much longer then when I initially setup the unit. Since channel 12 has a much stronger signal (better picture) and also provides the auto clock adjust feed then I'd like to try to set it as the host channel to see if the TVGOS listings download faster.As I've mentioned elsewhere, Gemstar does not transmit all 8 days at once. Each day, they transmit listings for "today", "tomorrow" and "8 days from now". So the "problem" you're having isn't a problem at all, it's the way the guide system operates. The guide will not be fully populated with 8 days of data until it's been running for about a week.

It hasn't been a full 6 days yet. I believe today is the 6th day but it still hasn't filled in the entire schedule. It always only shows 2 days. The current day and the following day. Yesterday I could see Thursday and Friday schedules. Today I can see Friday and Saturday. That's been the pattern all week.

If you scroll forward to next Friday, are there any listings for that day? If not, that suggests the downloads are beginning each day, but are getting interrupted at some point.

I bought a Pioneer 633 in September 05, plugged it in and set it up. The clock set automatically and the days listings were there the next day. The remainder of the guide filled in within a week. The guide worked flawlessly until sometime during the week before Christmas when all of the listings disappeared and the clock went awry. Since then I've tried fiddle-dicking with every 'solution' found in the forums to no avail. I give up!

I no longer believe that the issue is with the machine; something changed with Shaw Cable, the broadcasters or Gemstar.

Back to buying the Friday Times Communist TV Guide.

Aside from this issue, the Pioneer works very well and I like it a lot......

R. Morgan
Victoria BC Canada

Exactly my experience!

What we need is to know what "Host channel" brought us listings all the way up to the week before Christmas. Then we can begin to contact them and Shaw about this.

From my last manual reset (with the clock set manually) my time is still local (although the time in the debug screen is GMT - but the offset from GMT in seconds on these screens is correct for my local time). If my time stays OK then I can at least use the DVR with manual scheduled recording. If it keeps resetting my clock back to GMT then I can't use the unit!

Today, I turned the unit to Standby (time was fine at this point), waiting... POWERED OFF, and the time once again switched to GMT. Now I have to reset the unit to set the time again.

If Vancouver/Seattle don't have an issue, I think we can assume it is a local station that should be broadcasting the signal, and/or Shaw has indeed done something. Perhaps some emails should start flying to A Channel, Global Vancouver Island, etc...

I hope someone up there has been able to check their channel listings and verify if KCTS is the ONLY PBS station that your DVR has found. If not, look way down the list in the OFF section.

This was important to my EPG...I started with the PBS station my Adelphia delivered in my subscriber package and had problems (days 1,2,8). I switched to another PBS station and got some better success (days 1-5,8) BUT I soon got the dreaded "Setup Change" message and all was gone (happened two or three times with that station after hard resets). I switched a third time and got all 8 days very quickly and it held up well.

Turns out my original PBS station had an antenna fire and was operating at half-power. The 2nd station has ~300kw power (maybe why it eventually lost the EPG?), the 3rd ~1200kw. I'm now back to my full-power original station (~1400kw) and working perfectly.


We also have WTVS (PBS - Detroit) see this link for Victoria's lineup:

http://www.mcquarrieweb.ca/canada/shaw.asp?Location=VIC

It doesn't appear that we have much else. Besides, we have to receive a channel lineup before we can perform and movement of channels - we DO NOT have this.

What's all this talk of output power? Are you receiving TVGOS data OTA?

What about your post from yesterday with the link:

http://www.kcts.org/inside/techreport/faq/index.asp

that stated "Public Television stations do not transmit Guide+ data. Commercial stations on the major networks ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN and FOX contract with Gem Star for carriage of the Guide+ service."

Do they, or don't they?

I have a sony vcr with guide plus+
I can not get it to work in algonquin illinois on camcast cable I get the channels but "no listing"
The guide comes in over the air

Question does the nondigital comcast cable update the guideplus+ guide

I spoke to Shaw (please direct all service calls to ARBEN - he wouldn't give his last name).

I pressed for two things:

1) what was the host channel in the Victoria area that provided my TVGOS service this Fall

2) get Shaw to call Gemstar 800-386-7380 (they would only talk to manufacturers and cable companies)

He called back to tell me that Gemstar's contract with the station provider of TVGOS in the Victoria area expired and that Gemstar was currently in negotiations with stations to service the Victoria area. He said that it should be resolved soon.

This would seem to explain a lot. However, why does Vancouver and Seattle receive TVGOS data. They must have some obscure channels that we do not have in Victoria (i.e. TVGOS does not seem to come across ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX, or UPN - we get these channels).

Anyway. I just called the Gemstar number, and left a recorded message on their cable company answer line. I simply told them that Shaw cable in Victoria BC Canada was no longer receiving TVGOS data and customers were complaining. We understood that a contract expired with a host channel in that area and we needed to know when service would resume in order to communicate this information to our customers. I then left Shaw's customer service number - let Gemstar wait 45 minutes to talk to Arben.

I tried Pioneer as well but was on hold so long they put me to voice mail. I think I'll wait and call early to speak to a human.

Hmmm... still no answer on who the provider for Victoria is, but this is... encouraging news.

I'd figure the money we throw in to these TVGOS units pays for the cost of the service. Way to go treedmark, for your persistence in this matter.

Hmmm... still no answer on who the provider for Victoria is, but this is... encouraging news.

I'd figure the money we throw in to these TVGOS units pays for the cost of the service. Way to go treedmark, for your persistence in this matter.

We should go with the 1-2 punch now. you call shaw customer service, and/or BCMarinaDotCom, ask for ARBEN and press him further about details. If we did have the host station we could contact them about this to at least verify the story. BTW ARBEN was very helpful. He said he'd call back and I just nipped out of my office for a minute after calling him and there was a message on my voice mail from him. He seems to respond well to the statement, "if you don't have the ability/authority to deal with this then I don't want to take up any more of your time. Just pass me on to your supervisor and I'll try to see if they might be able to do something about this." - seemed to work like a charm. The reality is, I would prefer to speak to someone above the front line but I think they lose their bonus if the general population get past them too often and bother those with greater importance....

What data does KCTS transmit?
KCTS currently transmits data for closed captioning, time signal and StarSight.

What is the difference between StarSight and Guide+?
StarSight and Guide+ provide viewers with television listings via data transmission. Both services are owned by parent company, Gemstar. However, that is where similarities end. The data distribution and customer service support for each service is handled quite differently.

I think that this is obsolete information. There is no mention of "StarSight" on Gemstar's web site: http://www.gemstartvguide.com/. I think it is defunct.

Guide+ is what TVGOS used to be called when it was offered in TVs, and is now what TVGOS is called in Europe.

I would not place much value in these statements from KCTS.

I think that this is obsolete information. There is no mention of "StarSight" on Gemstar's web site: http://www.gemstartvguide.com/. I think it is defunct.

I was thinking that, too. I haven't heard of StarSight in over 10 years. It used to be an interactive TV guide that was delivered through cable set top boxes. It was one-way and, if I remember right, the data was loaded through a special data channel and stored in the box itself. Sort of similar to what TV Guide On Screen is today but more robust. I'd assumed that Star Sight was replaced by Gemstar's TV Guide Interactive service (which relies on two-way communication through set top boxes) and by TV Guide On Screen (which is a passive one-way service that doesn't use set top boxes).

We should go with the 1-2 punch now. you call shaw customer service, and/or BCMarinaDotCom, ask for ARBEN and press him further about details. If we did have the host station we could contact them about this to at least verify the story. BTW ARBEN was very helpful. He said he'd call back and I just nipped out of my office for a minute after calling him and there was a message on my voice mail from him. He seems to respond well to the statement, "if you don't have the ability/authority to deal with this then I don't want to take up any more of your time. Just pass me on to your supervisor and I'll try to see if they might be able to do something about this." - seemed to work like a charm. The reality is, I would prefer to speak to someone above the front line but I think they lose their bonus if the general population get past them too often and bother those with greater importance....

Victoria users:

Here is where we should focus our actions:


Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to email us.

We have confirmed that Gemstar does provide this feed and did have a contract to provide this information to RCA/Thompson TV owners through CBC. This contract has since expired and Gemstar is in the process of finding a provider for this service.

In regards to a timeline, we are unsure when Gemstar will have a contract in place. Being that they are the provider of this service, we recommend contacting them for an update on this process.

Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.

Thank you for choosing Shaw!

----------------------------------------

Chris
E-Mail Support Team
Shaw High-Speed Internet Service

Victoria users:

Gemstar does provide this feed and did have a contract to provide this information to RCA/Thompson TV owners through CBC. This contract has since expired and Gemstar is in the process of finding a provider for this service.


Good work Jicon.

CBC!!! You mean to tell me that Gemstar negotiates contracts with CBC affiliates one-by-one? No way! They would do so for the whole of the CBC. And, if this were the case, then the whole of Canada would be in Victoria's position. Hold on, hold on, our local CBC station is CBUT (CBC - Vancouver). Why don't they have the same problem we do? I guess other areas have more than one station that carries TVGOS data.

-------------------------

OK. I just called CBC 1 866 306 4636 and spoke to a very nice woman Anila. She had heard something about this yesterday when someone from the island called and they spoke to someone there. She did not have very many answers but agreed that if something they did caused this much trouble for people they should give some explanation (I was going on about not being able to set the clock anymore on my recorder - I don't think denial of TV listings constitutes cruel and unusual punishment). Problem is it's 4:30PT (7:30ET) on a Friday afternoon. She suggested that I call back on Monday morning when everyone would be in and we could talk to the right people to get to the bottom of this or at least get proper information.

Another weekend without TVGOS - at least I always know what time it is in the UK

Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.

Thank you for choosing Shaw!

----------------------------------------

Chris
E-Mail Support Team
Shaw High-Speed Internet Service

I think your should reply to Chris's email and suggest that in fact there is something he could provide further assistance on. He, or someone at Shaw, could contact Gemstar at the number 800-386-7380 and inform them that, due to the expiration of the contract with CBC, the Victoria area has not being serviced with TVGOS data for almost a month now.

I think it is important to to let Chris know that all we are looking for here is to inform Gemstar of this situation. Since Gemstar will only receive contact from cable companies and manufacturers, it is Shaw's responsibility (and Pioneer's, by the way) to contact them and inform them of this problem. Otherwise, how would Gemstar know that this one contract has left a whole area unserviced.

We need to follow up with Pioneer with the same message as well.

Today, I turned the unit to Standby (time was fine at this point), waiting... POWERED OFF, and the time once again switched to GMT. Now I have to reset the unit to set the time again.

If Vancouver/Seattle don't have an issue, I think we can assume it is a local station that should be broadcasting the signal, and/or Shaw has indeed done something. Perhaps some emails should start flying to A Channel, Global Vancouver Island, etc...

I mentioned this in another thread, but I've been having exactly this problem for the past two months. I'm in Kamloops.

Since areas (Victoria, kamloops, others?) are not being service by EPG data currently, and this situation messes with the clock (mine keeps going to GMT whether I set it as manual or automatic during set up). You need to turn off EPG to have a stable clock for timer recording. There has been a lot about how to do this. I will outline a method below for the 533H. I spoke to Pioneer this morning and my method (which is probably posted somewhere here or another forum) seemed to be new to the the guy I spoke to there and seemingly superior. Note, I have a very normal configuration (cable into the the DVR with no cable boxes or anything).

1) perform a hard reset (stop and power button while unit is on)
2) perform normal setup with manual clock setting
3) set up TVGOS normally (selecting Canada) but use A0A0A0 as the postal code
4) when you want to access the recorder schedule you must do it now through the HOME MENU or by pushing the TIMER REC button on the remote. If you push the TV GUIDE button it will put you back to the TVGOS welcome screen to get you to go through the setup again. if you hit this by accident then just push the TV GUIDE button again to get out.

In this mode EPG disappears from the DVR display. And all functions normally. the one side effect I have seen is that the unit always takes about 10-15s to turn on and 10-15 seconds to turn off.

For timer recording this seems to work fine (i.e. through the HOME MENU button or TIMER REC button). I set the DVR to timer record Desperate Housewives last night and it worked fine.

The Pioneer guy said they now had a lot of calls about this and would call me back if they had any more information. i pressed him to have pioneer call Gemstar to inform them of this problem so their coverage could be increased to service our areas.

I also called CBC back this morning and got transferred to someone who I left a voice mail with. I guess we'll see later what is known at that end.

jicon, I still think it is worth while emailing that Chris from shaw support back to ask him to have shaw contact Gemstar to report this problem.

You got it... I'll be emailing Chris right now.

I just spoke to a techie guy at CBC. The reason the contract expired with Gemstar is that the CBC is moving to digital and HD signals. TVGOS in its present form requires an analog signal (as has been described in these forums). The digital HD signal can carry TV listing information but it requires a mess of other hardware (digital receivers etc and digital TV with your local cables company). Since Gemstar was not compatible with the new system CBC let the contract lapse.

If we are going to get TVGOS back in the affected areas it will have to be by another carrier. We need information from Gemstar which can only come from getting our manufactures to contact Gemstar and our cable company to contact Gemstar.

I called and put pressure on Pioneer this morning and they have been hearing more and more about this problem. The more people who call the better. Also, we need to keep pressure on the cable company.

Since most stations are moving to digital this seems like it will be an increasing problem. I read somewhere in this forum that cable companies who moved entirely to digital heard so many complaints from their customers over losing TVGOS that they had to include one analog (PBS?) station to provide TVGOS data to their customers. If we don't get this then our hardware will be rendered useless and we will have to purchase something that understands the digital encoding to get TV listings and the simple timer scheduling we enjoy now. I don't think a firmware upgrade from Gemstar will do it.

I'm a bit confused with the CBC explanation. Then again, I think that stems to me not understanding how digital is going to affect TV watchers.

As it stood five years ago, cable companies were mandated by the CRTC to provide analog signal. Some of those lower channels available thru analog cable are likely (at least used to be) transmitted to Shaw in digital format, thru Microwaves, and digital receivers, then the signal is recombined at Shaw in to an analog signal.

I couldn't see a government funded, public channel ever fully leaving analog television... but I suppose times they are a changin'.

I'll keep scratchin' my head pondering this, and hope Shaw\Gemstar\Pioneer comes up with an answer to TVGOS soon.

The impact of the US 2009 digital transition deadline has yet to be felt in Canada - but I have to imagine there will be some repurcussions. The US Government won't be able to sell VHF and UHF spectrum near the border until Canadian stations stop using it. So perhaps the CBC is betting on a digital transition here too.

I'm a bit confused with the CBC explanation. Then again, I think that stems to me not understanding how digital is going to affect TV watchers.

As it stood five years ago, cable companies were mandated by the CRTC to provide analog signal. Some of those lower channels available thru analog cable are likely (at least used to be) transmitted to Shaw in digital format, thru Microwaves, and digital receivers, then the signal is recombined at Shaw in to an analog signal.

I couldn't see a government funded, public channel ever fully leaving analog television... but I suppose times they are a changin'.

I'll keep scratchin' my head pondering this, and hope Shaw\Gemstar\Pioneer comes up with an answer to TVGOS soon.

You seemed to know more tech details than I. If you call the CBC at 1 866 306 4636 and ask for Greg about this issue he will be able, and seems quite willing, to discuss the nitty gritty details of the digital vs analog signals as well as issues related to compatibility with Gemstar's TVGOS data.

Well don't know if this is any help, I am in Toronto on Rogers, and my host lists as channel 8, which is CTV.

I had a good run, 2 months, and haven't read much here until today, and from what I read Adyu is the only one on track here........there is no fix.

I am lucky to get passed 8 days, than after this point, when it goes down, it will states "rebulilding....." or "there is no data......". Machine usually comes back within a day or two. I stopped worrying, and schedule furiously during week1 after reset.

As Sean explained, the hit comes when all scheduled programs go gray, and the unit has lost all epg data, including searches. Then the data never comes back, and the reset is the only out.

My experience, after reset, is no channel listings ever, or data. If i wait an hour or two, and turn on, channels have populated, with "no listing" in every slot. Let it go longer , and they fill days 1,2,8.

Another problem i've had is timer freezing displaying "tmr ready" on unit, and the programmed shows just wipe off the list as time go by, and nothing records, until i press stop record. This happened 3 times in 5 months (disapointing).

LDK

Well don't know if this is any help, I am in Toronto on Rogers, and my host lists as channel 8, which is CTV.

I had a good run, 2 months, and haven't read much here until today, and from what I read Adyu is the only one on track here........there is no fix.

I am lucky to get passed 8 days, than after this point, when it goes down, it will states "rebulilding....." or "there is no data......". Machine usually comes back within a day or two. I stopped worrying, and schedule furiously during week1 after reset.

As Sean explained, the hit comes when all scheduled programs go gray, and the unit has lost all epg data, including searches. Then the data never comes back, and the reset is the only out.

My experience, after reset, is no channel listings ever, or data. If i wait an hour or two, and turn on, channels have populated, with "no listing" in every slot. Let it go longer , and they fill days 1,2,8.

Another problem i've had is timer freezing displaying "tmr ready" on unit, and the programmed shows just wipe off the list as time go by, and nothing records, until i press stop record. This happened 3 times in 5 months (disapointing).

LDK


Hi LDK. Yes your experience sounds more like the "classic" TVGOS problems rather than a complete loss of access to TVGOS data. I wonder - your 2-month run, did this end about a week before christmas? From what we know now, you had access to at least two host channels that supplied TVGOS data up to that time (CBC and CTV). If this timing corresponds to the start of your problems then it may be that your current "classic" problems are due to you being forced to only one host channel (CTV) where in the good days you had two. Just a thought.

Also, I thought I had read in a forum somewhere that Rogers in TO stripped the TVGOS data from host channels?

I've had the 531 for a few months now, worked TGOS worked so so at beginning, around the holidays, it started getting lost about every couple of days. I finally did a soft reset about 9 days ago and things were working well. However tonite, I had scheduled to record some tv starting at 8:00 pm. I notice that it wasnt recording a little after 8. after looking at it closer, I sw that the time was off, way off, it was reading 5:00 AM for some resaon. My listings were still all there, and my scheduled recording were there, but the recorder didnt think it was time yet.

I did a quick OTR recording for what I wanted, then at 11:00 I wetn in to chck the time and found that there is no way to just set the time! I did have it set to auto time, so that it would recover if I had a power outage. But now it won't allow me to set the time.

I tried doing a soft reset of the TGOS system suing the code in the debug screen posted earlier, but that didnt do it. I finaly had to reset the whole machine and re-enter everything.

Very frustrating.

As a side note, I have a Tosh TV that also uses TGOS system. I've had the TV for about 1.5 years. It has only lost data a couple of times both related to power outages, I had it unplugged while out of town.

The TV is getting the same OTA feed as the PIO 531 (I split and OTA antenna feed and go to both units ). So I don't buy the story that TVGOS is unreliable, I'm convinced it's the implentation of the feature on the DVR thats the problem.

I had earlier emailed Piuoneer about losing EPG data and they replied that I hould call them, rather than email. I tried calling but after 15 minutes waiting for rep, I gave up.

In any event, does anyone have any suggestions on an easier way to set/change time on these units wirhout doing a total reset?

Thanks,
Rick

Looks like I'm back in business here. As of Saturday morning I have a full 8 days of programming. Its been running great ever since. Hopefully that doesn't change.

In any event, does anyone have any suggestions on an easier way to set/change time on these units wirhout doing a total reset?

Thanks,
Rick

I have had success by going to the initial setup screen and rescanning the channels. This would then allow me to set the clock. This made no other changes on the DVR (e.g. recording schedules etc.) This worked for me if I did it not too long after I noticed that the time had reset to GMT (say a half a day or so).

I had let the DVR go longer to see if the clock would set back (more than a day). After that long however, the channel scan in the initial setup was also grayed out and I had to do a hard reset.

I never had this clock problem until I lost all my TVGOS data (i.e. no host channel for my cable service). If you have a valid Host Channel and are experiencing this problem then i would call Pioneer to complain. I spoke at length to a guy there. Just call early. Later in the day you can wait forever only to be directed to voice mail.

Treedmack:

Apparently Gem Star is being pestered by Shaw, and it is their top priority to have a solution for us here in Victoria. Another email from Shaw:



Hello John,

We have been in daily communication with Gem star regarding the issue and the urgency in the need to repair is the top priority for Gem star.

We hope to see them resolve this promptly and restore this service for you.

Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.

Thank you for choosing Shaw!

----------------------------------------

Chris
E-Mail Support Team
Shaw High-Speed Internet Service

Treedmack:

Apparently Gem Star is being pestered by Shaw, and it is their top priority to have a solution for us here in Victoria. Another email from Shaw:



Hello John,

We have been in daily communication with Gem star regarding the issue and the urgency in the need to repair is the top priority for Gem star.

We hope to see them resolve this promptly and restore this service for you.

Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.

Thank you for choosing Shaw!

----------------------------------------

Chris
E-Mail Support Team
Shaw High-Speed Internet Service


Good Work jicon!!!

This is exactly what needed to be done. Currently I have my EPG turned off as described above. let me know if you hear of, or discover, any changes to our EPG status and I'll also try it out again.

If we get this back, then we can begin to look forward to the usual EPG problems :)

I have had success by going to the initial setup screen and rescanning the channels. This would then allow me to set the clock. This made no other changes on the DVR (e.g. recording schedules etc.) This worked for me if I did it not too long after I noticed that the time had reset to GMT (say a half a day or so).

I had let the DVR go longer to see if the clock would set back (more than a day). After that long however, the channel scan in the initial setup was also grayed out and I had to do a hard reset.

I never had this clock problem until I lost all my TVGOS data (i.e. no host channel for my cable service). If you have a valid Host Channel and are experiencing this problem then i would call Pioneer to complain. I spoke at length to a guy there. Just call early. Later in the day you can wait forever only to be directed to voice mail.


Treedmack,

Thanks, I'll try to rember that next time, if there is a next time. I was pretty bummed about having to reset everything and reschedule all my recording - I record way too much I think.

thanks again.
Rick

When i looked up my host channel yesterday, saw it was 8 (CTV) as I stated. Today i went to move it to the top of the list, and realized it was an OFF channel in my guide.

T,
About two weeks ago is when i went down.

LDK

Victoria is back in business!!!!

I came home to see the time was correct on my Pioneer 531, AND, no EPG...

Hit the Standby button, and the unit said powering on. I then had to go thru the setup again, but noticed a bit more noise from the HD.

Brought up the TVGOS setup, took the same settings I had before, and VOILA, it works...

Victoria is back in business!!!!

I came home to see the time was correct on my Pioneer 531, AND, no EPG...

Hit the Standby button, and the unit said powering on. I then had to go thru the setup again, but noticed a bit more noise from the HD.

Brought up the TVGOS setup, took the same settings I had before, and VOILA, it works...

Excellent news!

OK...everythings been working great for about a week until last night when I turned the machine on. When the TVGOS came up it displayed the following message:

Update information will be available within 24 hours. The Guide is rebuilding your channel list based on your setup change

Last time this happened I did the hard reset on the unit, then I did the TVGOS reset by typing in the special code into the remote. This worked however it took another week for everything to load back in and I also lost all of my settings, recording schedules and channel linup. I hate to go through all this again. Has anyone had any luck with just doing nothing? If so then how long did it take for the channel linup to return?

OK...everythings been working great for about a week until last night when I turned the machine on. When the TVGOS came up it displayed the following message:

Update information will be available within 24 hours. The Guide is rebuilding your channel list based on your setup change

Last time this happened I did the hard reset on the unit, then I did the TVGOS reset by typing in the special code into the remote. This worked however it took another week for everything to load back in and I also lost all of my settings, recording schedules and channel linup. I hate to go through all this again. Has anyone had any luck with just doing nothing? If so then how long did it take for the channel linup to return?

There are two options it would seem.

1) leave things as they are and your scheduled programs will continue to record - even though you can't see the listings. Some have also suggested that you can perform searches in this mode (Sean) and it remains functional

2) perform TVGOS reset only with the special code (not sure why you performed both this and a hard reset before). This will retain all of your schedules recordings but you will lose all your TVGOS data so they may not record properly until your data comes back (they may still record without TVGOS data, like a simple timer record perhaps if they were "daily" or "weekly" but not "regular"- it would be interesting to know).

As for them coming back on their own, I'm no help here. When mine disappeared after working flawlessly for almost 2 months it was because I lost the TVGOS data in my area. When it returned (two days ago), so did my listings. I recall reading posts where they had been gone for weeks never to return and only days and returning. It really is hard to generalize when the source of the problem for each person can be so varied.


Good luck.

OK...everythings been working great for about a week until last night when I turned the machine on. When the TVGOS came up it displayed the following message:

Update information will be available within 24 hours. The Guide is rebuilding your channel list based on your setup change

Last time this happened I did the hard reset on the unit, then I did the TVGOS reset by typing in the special code into the remote. This worked however it took another week for everything to load back in and I also lost all of my settings, recording schedules and channel linup. I hate to go through all this again. Has anyone had any luck with just doing nothing? If so then how long did it take for the channel linup to return?


Mine worked good for the first month an a half that I had it. I got this message a couple of months ago and after several days tried a reset. This did not help. I get the 24 hour message every time that turn it on (for the past 2 months). I just gave up and reverted to a paper listing and manually set all recordings.

OK...everythings been working great for about a week until last night when I turned the machine on. When the TVGOS came up it displayed the following message:

Update information will be available within 24 hours. The Guide is rebuilding your channel list based on your setup change

Last time this happened I did the hard reset on the unit, then I did the TVGOS reset by typing in the special code into the remote. This worked however it took another week for everything to load back in and I also lost all of my settings, recording schedules and channel linup. I hate to go through all this again. Has anyone had any luck with just doing nothing? If so then how long did it take for the channel linup to return?

This is my exact problem. Things work fine until all 8 days of listings are populated. After that, the rebuilding starts.

I have had the listings come back and have experienced days of the rebuilding message.

I have tended to give it a day or two to see if it corrects itself, using search to find things I am interested in.

If it doesn't come back by the 3rd day, I use the remote code to reset the TVGOS system. Every time I have done this, the rebuild starts within the next 24 hours and continues to work fine until all 8 days are again loaded.

The "bug" appears to be in the update process when all the 8 schedule days are in the recorder. Something prevents the proper deletion of past days and the addition of the new days.


Little did I know when I bout my recorder that I would be "Pioneering" the debug process for the Pioneer/TVGOS software.

Hopefully I can get someone's results to see if what I have happen corresponds to others...

Two days ago, EPG symbol was not on my PIO 531 for the first time ever. Started the unit, it asks to tune channels, set time, then verify my TVGOS settings. Okay. Done.

I see listings right away, so I decided to change the channel line-up so it actually followed my channel listings that I'm used to seeing. Continue to watch TV for a few hours... then I go to put the unit on standby:

The unit says waiting... POWERING OFF on the LCD, then EPG displays.

Turn the unit on again, and the listings say wait 24 hours. Fine, I hit the standby button again, and it quickly displays EPG, no wait, no POWERING OFF message.

Come home yesterday... EPG signal had finally turned off in the afternoon.

Turn the unit on, I have channel listings, I can see which programs are set to record, as I had set them yesterday... but my channel listing order has been reset.

Leave the unit on for a few hours, go to hit Standby, and this time, it simply displays EPG once again.


My questions are this:

Do others have issues with the channel listing order being messed about?

Why does the unit sometimes take a few moments and display POWERING OFF when putting it in standby, and others, it quickly goes to EPG mode?

Chris, the reset procedure has not solved the problem for me. I used the procedure on 11/22/05 and again on 12/10/05. After both resets the data did start to return once the machine got around to asking me to select the provider for my zip code. I'm about the do the reset prodedure for the third time. Sometime since 10pm saturday night and sunday evening my DVR-531 is giving me the "Guide is rebuilding your channel list" and I had not made any setup changes this week. I did put the machine on a UPS a week ago. So apparently power fluctuations is not the problem.

There might be a pattern here though. Each of the last three problem events happened on a Saturday or Sunday.

Gary

I thought I would update my own message. This past Sunday my DVR-531 again went into the Guide is rebuilding your channel list. I checked the unit before putting it in standby late Saturday night or actually early Sunday morning. When I checked it the next evening I had the error message. So this is a Sunday pattern for me. Maybe, as suggested previously, my PBS station is going off the air for a short while during the night (even though the TVGOS indicates constant programming).

Why does the unit sometimes take a few moments and display POWERING OFF when putting it in standby, and others, it quickly goes to EPG mode?

This is common for my DVR-531. I assume it is doing some sort of housekeeping such as deleting programs I "erased" earlier in the session or maybe some defragging. I also have a DVR-220 (DVD only) that doesn't actually erase recordings from the -RW until I exit the Disc Navigator. If I mark a recording "erase" and then select something else to watch from one of the titles in the Navigator, then the machine doesn't actually erase them until I STOP playing the recording. The machine will then display something like Writing information to Disc.

OK...here's where I'm at. When I got home from work last night, there was no change. The "rebuilding" message was still being displayed. I did notice that my recording schedule was still in tact and I was able to go in and edit them. I was also able to use the search function to find future shows and schedule them for recording.

Even though everything was still working, being the impatient person I am I went ahead and reset the TVGOS anyways. Once I did that the scheduled recordings turned grey and were no longer valid. Probably because it couldn't find the appropriate times and stations that they corrisponded to. I turned off the machine. After a couple of hours nothing happened so I did a hard reset. This morning the TVGOS had started reloading the channels. Its now going to take a week for everything to reload. In retrospect I should have left it alone. In the future I will.

In retrospect I should have left it alone. In the future I will.

I'm exactly the same way :(

So, I haven't had the EPG Guide in a long time, although it was working before. Checking the Debug Screens, it looks like the last received data was on Dec. 29th, 2005.

I called Shaw Cable, my local cable provider, and had a very poor customer experience. I was very patient and polite, but was treated rudely. To paraphrase "TV Guide On Screen? If we supported it, it would be in our support book. Because it isn't in our support book it has nothing to do with us." It took me ten minutes to convince him to give me a email address where I could email the problem details to (hoping to find intelligent life), and only after I proved to him TV Guide On Screen does exist by getting him to look up Pioneer 633 on the internet.

If anybody with Shaw Cable here in Calgary is actually getting listings, please let me know.

Next stop, Pioneer Canada. If anyone has an email address of someone helpful at either Shaw Cable, Gemstar, or Pioneer please email it to me: neilchongkit@yahoo.com.

Thanks.

Hi Nick,

I'm based in Montreal, canada. When I inquired to my cable provider here (videotron), they felt pretty unresonsive as well. I think trere`s a reason for that. EPG seems to be supported by some of the broadcasters, not the cable company who just feed it along blindly with the rest of the signal. They should be more polite in explaining this, but I suppose this arrogance comes from the monopoly situation in which they feel they are. You can always consider sattelite or other providers if you're really mad.

Your plan should be to find out which broadcaster(s) was feeding EGP and what went wrong. I'd start with CBC.

Hi

Not sure if this is any help, but you can get to the EPG Reception check mode doing the following:

Press:

TV Guide --> Listings-->select Setup-->select Change system settings--> then type the number 753159852 then push the cursor key up twice.

To leave this mode press Return-->TV Guide-->Home Menu

If reception is bad then the rows titled Drop and rows named xCorr and xErrs will be large percentage of total packets received.

Regards

Phil

Victoria is back in business!!!!

I came home to see the time was correct on my Pioneer 531, AND, no EPG...

Hit the Standby button, and the unit said powering on. I then had to go thru the setup again, but noticed a bit more noise from the HD.

Brought up the TVGOS setup, took the same settings I had before, and VOILA, it works...

So what is your host channel? (Hoping it's one I get too. <g>)