Sceptre X37SV-Naga review [Text View] - Page 6

YNOS

12-08-05, 04:44 PM

I have one of the new models and now have it hooked up to my htpc via dvi-hdmi. I was able to see the jitter on various material, including the beetle clip. I also have a MyHD-130 tuner with dvi daughter card. I had it on PBS for a time last night on a program about Troy. I was watching with the MyHD card and noticed jitter while they were panning some ancient scrolls. I switched back to the internal tuner on the set and did not see any jitter. This is even worse than the 1080P problem since the MyHD card outputs directly via dvi when in HD mode, and also outputs at 1080i not 1080P. This would mean that any device using the HDMI connector would suffer the jitter problem, not just computers. I have also noticed streaks of blue dots when trying to use my dvd player at 480P. It would appear that the set has some serious input issues that need to be fixed.Those are exactly my findings as well. If you had a Version 1 set, you wouldn't see any jitter while watching HD through your MyHD card. I just hope they fix this problem soon with a Version 3 of the set.

jkresh

12-08-05, 05:00 PM

for those who are having the problem over dvi, do you have the port set to dvi to dvi/hdcp or to hdmi? (note I do not have the set (yet) so any suggestions I may make in repsonse are pure speculation).

Sutekh

12-08-05, 05:45 PM

I'm using the third setting (DVI). I think the settings are HDMI, HDMI/HDCP, and DVI. I get a desktop via all three, but the first two are cropped or have overscan. I'll try and sit down tonight and make notes of my impressions of the set so far. I do hope there is a resolution for the HDMI/VGA jitter problem, or it will have to go back at some point. Maybe that USB connection will let us apply a software update - assuming it can be fixed with software...

Polypro

12-08-05, 08:20 PM

O.k. I downloaded JudderTest and Power Strip, thanks to donsev's find. This tool will definitely show you the problem at the factory 1920x1080/60Hz. I installed PS and ran JT from it's folder. 60Hz showed tearing and judder (previously referred to as "stutter" :)). Since I noticed an improvment when I switched to 50Hz through the Forceware 81.95 settings...I had a range to work with. I opened up PS and went to the advanced timing section and opened JT along side it. I ran JT with one bar on the stock 1 refresh setting. Speed was set to 1, 3, 5, and 10. I ran each test for 2 minutes. I started at 60Hz and stepped down (fine granularity checked in PS) by thousandths for refreh rate. I noticed no improvment down to 55Hz. I then started at 50Hz and worked up. The tearing was gone at 50Hz but the judder remained. Things started to look good at 53Hz...the interval between judder was increasing and dropped frames were decreasing. At 53.286Hz I was pretty darn happy:) I kept stepping up and then settled on a number. I tested either side of it and came to the conclusion that, on my set...

53.306Hz GOT RID OF THE JUDDER AND THERE IS NO TEARING! :)

I ran JT for 3 minutes and had 2 dropped frames...which was the best I could achieve. I don't know if 0 dropped frames are possible...I'm a little new to this and just clicked the refresh rate button. Improvment may be possible.

I will say that scrolling tickers still arent smooth, but I think that has to do with the HTPC Hauppauge capture card or the GeForce 6600, as I've heard complaints about that stuff from HTPC'ers who don't even own a Sceptre. Bottom line is that JT is smooth as silk at the above refresh rate. HTH.

P

Edit: I tried to transfer the PS settings over to the Forceware andvanced timing settings. The screen would refresh with the new settings, but when I clicked "Yes" to keep the new settings, they reset to the previous NVIDIA ones...couldn't make them stick...so PS is needed. If anyone figures out how to make them stick, let us know. I hate running more software than I need on an HTPC.

jay_cee

12-08-05, 08:47 PM

Interesting - that's certainly encouraging.

Would you do me a favor - PowerStrip can apparently generate a "modeline" that is useful to us Linux users. Could you post the modeline for that particular setting? Thanks - J

donsev

12-08-05, 09:27 PM

Actually, you should be able to use PowerStrip to dump the EDID and IIRC that will include lines that show what the proper refresh settings should be (as well as generate the "modeline").

I strongly suggest that those trying to help diagnose this problem (not that we should be the ones who have to solve this, right Sceptre tech support?) read the " Sharp Aquos 45" 7U connected to PC - can't get 1920x1080" thread;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=609897&page=1&pp=30

I believe that there may be common answers to our questions. For example, I wonder if this post helps explain why when set to HDMI or HDMI/HDCP the PQ looks strange;

I probably wasn't that clear. HDMI sink devices support RGB regardless of 640x480. What is special about 640x480 is the HDMI specs say the levels for this video format should be 0-255 vs 16-235 for the other resolutions. AV video formats commonly use 16-235 levels because they have the concept of "blacker-than-black" and "whiter-than-white" PCs usually output video expecting the sink device to be using 0-255 RGB levels. If the levels are wrong you will get pictures that seem like the brightness is turned way up, or faded or dull pictures, or oversaturated whites. Basically the picture will sync but it won't look quite right.

I've seen some forward-looking HDMI implementations, that put an option to manually force the RGB levels to be 0-255 or 16-235. It is usually labelled "enhanced" RGB levels. (It might also be labelled "PC input vs AV input") It took me a while to figure out what that meant. At first I thought it was some video processing that made the colors look better. After testing it, I realized it was an adjustent for the RGB levels between 0-255 or 16-235.

When people say they hooked up their PC to the HDMI port and the colors looked really bad, I usually advise them to try 640x480 out first and see if that is any better. If it is, then the issue is likely this 0-255 vs 16-235 level problem. If they are lucky it can be corrected through some setting on the set or the PC side. I don't see why it should be that difficult to correct on the PC side, but to date I haven't seen any driver settings to make the correction for the cards I've used. I'm not saying there isn't as I don't have experience with a wide range of cards, just I haven't seen them (and I haven't seen the issue discussed in that much detail during my research)

With the overscan and other issues perhaps being caused by the HDMI setting forcing 1080i over the DVI interface;
Well anyway, basically what ended up happening is the majority of displays with HDMI interfaces have designed them to be used for AV functions and AV video formats, and AV colorspace. Many of the PC compatibility features are "optional" in the spec and not implemented. Some of the display manufacturers also included a DVI port based on previous implementation which had more PC compatability options supported. Since display manufacturers basically predominantly took the view that HDMI is for AV use and DVI is for PC use, they could take shortcuts in the HDMI design, like always doing overscan on the HDMI 720p/1080i inputs and not providing 1:1 pixel mapping modes.

Again, what this all means I don't know but is it possible that the Ver. 2 Sceptre synch's at a slightly different refresh rate than the Ver. 1 and is hit-or-miss with DVI attached equipment whether it be HTCP or hardware based upscalers etc.?

If the "judder" is solvable via a custom refesh rate (those running the HD tuner cards with dedicated outputs - do those default to the refresh rate set by the video card driver? Do they have their own settings?) then that would leave the "blue streaks". Could this be a synch/timing issue as well?

BTW, great work Polypro!

Polypro

12-08-05, 09:46 PM

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080=1920,88,44,148,1080,4,5,36,131931,768

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=88 HSW=44 HBP=148 kHz=60 VFP=4 VSW=5 VBP=36 Hz=53

VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=131.93 H.Active=1920 H.Blank=280 H.Offset=72 HSW=44 V.Active=1080 V.Blank=45 V.Offset=4 VSW=5

Linux modeline parameters:
"1920x1080" 131.931 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

Here 'tis

Thanks d, you lit the way:)

P

Edit: The manual mentions a cable for the VGA-YPbPr input. Anone get VGA to YPbPr cable? I got a VGA and I got a YPbPr...but no combo. Oh, I aint got no power switch on the back either :)

plasmatornado

12-08-05, 10:20 PM

i hope sceptre techs are keeping tabs on all of this.........and hopefully we will be able to get some sorta update thru the usb......

craiger1965

12-09-05, 12:54 AM

Tonght I hooked up my new Sceptre to my PC and I'm not getting the 1:1 pixel ration. I'm using DVI->HDMI, and the card is a Radeon 9600XT. I am using the Sceptre .inf. At 1920x1080, the image is overscanned. The ATI driver discovered that 1776x1000 would fit, and that fills the screen perfectly. Has anyone else encountered this? I'd like to get it in native 1:1, because then the text would be sharper than it is now.

bigsid05

12-09-05, 01:51 AM

Did you switch to the DVI input? Sounds like you're on the HDMI input. Both use the same physical HDMI input but te DVI selection should be 1:1.

s2ktaxi

12-09-05, 02:02 AM

HDNOW

12-09-05, 03:21 AM

milbarge

12-09-05, 03:55 AM

I am trying to duplicate your settings, but all I get is a "No Signal" message, and had to revert back to the default setting using the ALT-Ctrl-S. Please help.

Thanks.

I'm having exactly the same issue. I can get it up to 53.287 (which looks good but drops lots of frames) and anything above that bombs out no signal.

vik888

12-09-05, 04:08 AM

Just got the unit today. So far:

1) Watched SDTV via regular cable coax -- ehhh .. Its better to watch it at 4:3 and sit about 10' from the unit and it looks brighter than my 5yr old CRT, maybe not as clear on some of the "on air" channels but the cable ones CNN, etc, look decent.

2) Hooked up my Dell Inspiron 600m. Used the INF file from Sceptre's site. 1920x1080 works well. The very very left side of my screen is missing, but its so small, its not an issue really. IT LOOKS AWESOME.

Cox won't be out here until a week from today to install the HDTV cable box. I don't own a good DVD player (progressive scan, upscaling), so nothing to report yet until I go get one.

donsev

12-09-05, 08:11 AM

HDNOW, milbarge,

I fear that you may have to duplicate Polypros' steps, not just the settings (i.e. use JudderTest). I could be way off, and I don't know if from an EE standpoint this even makes sense, but all of this makes me think that either; 1-(for some reason) this set is sensitive to slight variations in the synch/timing of the attached video cards and might have to be "calibrated" for each setup, or 2-the chips used for synching the timing signal in the set are bad and have way too much variance from what the design spec was, causing each user to find the "native" timing of that particular chip in that particular set.

I suppose if others use PowerStrip and JudderTest and we all come up with different "optimal" frequencies, this tells us something - although what I don't know.

(Now who was it again that said that we were NOT Beta testers???)

craiger1965

12-09-05, 09:10 AM

Polypro

12-09-05, 09:34 AM

bigsid05

12-09-05, 10:17 AM

Set it to DVI and then turn your comput or restart your computer. You likely need to update your ATI drivers.

milbarge

12-09-05, 12:13 PM

Man, I thought it would be easy! Each set is different!? Guys, will yours do 50Hz (PAL)? That should at least stop the tearing. My video card is a Gigabyte GV-N66256DP. I have the AGP slot locked at 67MHz, AGP aperture at 256MB,Forceware 81.95. Fast Writes on, Sidebanding on. Using JT and PS will take you about an hour...depending on how low you need/can go. Here are the actual PS settings:

Yeah I thought it would be easy too, but I guess that's the breaks, I spent about 3 1/2 hours playing with powerstrip and I couldn't get any setting to not Judder and not drop frames. I could get one or the other but not both.

One question, are you running VGA or DVI between your set and your Graphics card? I'm using a dual DVI eVga 7800GT but I'm thinking about throwing in my old 6600 card and running via VGA to see if that helps.

jay_cee

12-09-05, 12:31 PM

I just blindly stuck in Polypro's linux modeline settings this morning. One immediate consequence at those settings was that I lost about 20% of the right hand side of my desktop. I went ahead and played a DVD (since I'm on linux I can't run that juddertest program). The obvious stuttering that was there a couple of days ago was much reduced.

I'll try to tweak it more this weekend.

s2ktaxi

12-09-05, 12:33 PM

I tried toggling the input to DVI instead of HDMI, but DVI setting says "no signal." And, when I switch back to HDMI input, I get a blue screen. After that, I have to turn the Sceptre off and on to get it to display. Could it be the ATI card?

not all DVI are created equal - one of my PCs with an ATI 8500DV All in Wonder has a DVI connection but does not seem to be recognized by the Sceptre when connected through the DVI-HDMI cable. With a different PC with the ATI x600, the Sceptre recognized HDMI, DVI and HDCP through the same DVI-HDMI cable.

wallyllama

12-09-05, 12:56 PM

(Now who was it again that said that we were NOT Beta testers???)

umm...(sheepishly) That was me. I take it all back.

milbarge

12-09-05, 01:42 PM

Well I finally got it working by switching to the 6600 (a Prolink 6600 256), looks like its time to cancel the Westy order! Just as Polypro suggested the sweet spot is 53.306 although I had to use different numbers to get it to fit my screen properly.

So I guess the moral of the story is that it is Graphics card dependent.

Now my only problem is that the 6600 doesn't quite have the guts to do HD deinterlacing and stutters (ever so slightly) on fast pans. I know this is a gfx card problem because it happens in HDMI mode too. Now comes the question, what cards work and are HD compatible? Anyone have a 6600GT to test with?

BTW: It works over both VGA and DVI

My Powerstrip settings are:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080=1920,536,40,144,1080,4,5,36,158318,768

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=536 HSW=40 HBP=144 kHz=60 VFP=4 VSW=5 VBP=36 Hz=53

Linux modeline parameters:
"1920x1080" 158.318 1920 2456 2496 2640 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

Polypro

12-09-05, 01:48 PM

I'm running DVI out of the 6600. Did the VGA Auto-Synch feature do anything?Wish I knew Linux so I could try to help...I didn't lose any real estate. I never got a perfect 0/0 in JT either though...the longest I ran was 3 minues and lost 2 frames, but with regular viewing its un-noticeble. Man!...I can't believe these sets are *that* different.

P

Edit: I've got a 660GT arriving today but my vanilla *seems* fine with WTNHDT 720p.

HDNOW

12-09-05, 02:42 PM

vivarey

12-09-05, 03:05 PM

Question -- how do you disable the "NO HDMI AUDIO" message on the set? I'm using HDMI for video but sending the audio directly to my receiver. This message is really getting annoying. Thanks!

milbarge

12-09-05, 04:46 PM

HDNOW: Yes it fixes both, although I still have a slight stutter that I'm pretty sure is caused by the graphics cards inability to keep up not the timing. As my card warms up (it is passively cooled using a Zalman heat-pipe/heatsink rig) it starts to drop more and more frames eventually reaching the point of dropping a frame a second. I'm going to try some different cooling solutions and see how it goes.

Also, I've found that for my card 53.346hz works a little better than 53.306.

milbarge

12-09-05, 05:52 PM

vik888

12-09-05, 06:27 PM

Now that I've got this TV and seen SDTV and my PC on it, what DVD player do you guys recommend or what features are recommended for DVD playback?

I'm guessing either DVI or HDMI output, progressive scan, and upscaling since DVDs are 480P and they need to be upscaled to at least 720P?

I'm new to the whole HDTV thing but I've been reading and learning, so any help would be appreciated.

In a week, Cox will be bringing the HDTV cable box which has component output.

Question -- I can't just plug my local cable co's coax into the ATSC tuner right? It goes into the NTSC tuner only? I need an OTA antenna to plug into the ATSC tuner?

Thanks!

HDNOW

12-09-05, 09:59 PM

Working powerstrip dump from my 7800GT, it solves the Jitter/Tear but introduces an interesting "film" effect on fast pans (could be the source). Not perfect but a BIG improvement over the stock timings.

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080=1920,536,40,144,1080,4,5,36,158318,768

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=536 HSW=40 HBP=144 kHz=60 VFP=4 VSW=5 VBP=36 Hz=53

Linux modeline parameters:
"1920x1080" 158.318 1920 2456 2496 2640 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

Cool :) ....I got mine working as well. Here is my PS dump from my eVGA 7800GTX with official 81.95 driver. 53.333hz for the jitter/tearing to almost completely gone. Still a very little stitter, but compared to the original, it is night and day.
Thanks milbarge, I've based my timing on yours.

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080=1920,367,44,144,1080,4,5,36,148500,768

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=367 HSW=44 HBP=144 kHz=60 VFP=4 VSW=5 VBP=36 Hz=53

Linux modeline parameters:
"1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2287 2331 2475 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

craiger1965

12-09-05, 10:09 PM

Thanks bigsid05, changing it DVI Input and rebooting did the trick. I am now enjoying all 1920x1080 non-interlaced at 75hz. This screen is magnificent...I don't think I could ever go back to a regular sized flat panel. This forum is great.

Polypro

12-09-05, 10:34 PM

AtlPaul

12-10-05, 01:07 AM

Sorry to interject here. How is the picture quality on digital stations especially hi-def ATSC? I'm considering this set solely for ATSC reception. TIA ... Paul

navret

12-10-05, 01:19 AM

sledge1234

12-10-05, 09:02 AM

Just use your PC with software scaler like TheaterTek.

Now that I've got this TV and seen SDTV and my PC on it, what DVD player do you guys recommend or what features are recommended for DVD playback?

I'm guessing either DVI or HDMI output, progressive scan, and upscaling since DVDs are 480P and they need to be upscaled to at least 720P?

I'm new to the whole HDTV thing but I've been reading and learning, so any help would be appreciated.

In a week, Cox will be bringing the HDTV cable box which has component output.

Question -- I can't just plug my local cable co's coax into the ATSC tuner right? It goes into the NTSC tuner only? I need an OTA antenna to plug into the ATSC tuner?

Thanks!

jay_cee

12-10-05, 01:08 PM

I have the 2nd generation set, and just want to use it for HDTV. What is the best way to hookup a speaker system such as a Logitech Z-5500 505 Watts 5.1 Speaker system, as mentioned by someone back in August. Would you take the output from line out or earphone out and would either of those outputs be in surround sound?

I haven't really used the audio outputs on this set, but in general I think you would want to use the "line out". You are not going to get surround sound out of either of those outputs. There used to be a hidden digital audio out (that would support surround) in the rev1 set, but people seem to be reporting its gone in the rev2. This is just one of the shortcomings of this TV....

jay_cee

12-10-05, 01:18 PM

Polypro

12-10-05, 02:47 PM

I hope they're reading it daily like we are...I want a free exchange for a (fixed?) Rev 3 :) FYI - I was checking something unrelated to the TV last night and turned off Full Screen Exclusive mode in SageTV...tearing was back. So if you can run FSE in your software, do so. But, like others have stated this TV is 100% better now...I only see *very slight* judder on *some pans - not all, now* because I know what to look for. Others look at me like I'm nuts when they watch the same scenes. I even dealt with the Lamp setting coming unstuck upon Power On by using my Harmony 880 to send the extra commands. As far as damage, someone correct me...but I think since it's a digital display, it'll either do the refresh rate, or it won't.

P

Eugene157

12-10-05, 02:52 PM

I bought the 37" from Costco in August . My unit has an annoying audio buzz when connected to the computer via VGA. That buzz is there in the VGA mode even with the audio input disconnected.

The audio output when playing a DVD is moderate and during low audio scenes that sync buzz is really bad.

A second problem is the S video input. The decoder produces color fringing to the point were S input cannot be used, the DVD player has to use component input .

Asside from the above the VGA and component picture is just outstanding, pictures from my Sony HD HC1 camera are just incredible on the Sceptre.

Have the above issues been fixed?

I would be very grateful for any input
Thanks,
Eugene

EDIT>>

mod note: no price or sale talk, please. MSRP only, thanks.

kylef

12-10-05, 04:26 PM

Watching DVDs on my Xbox 360 in 480p, I am getting blue streaks all over the screen. Might I need to use a different cable instead of the stock component one, or is the problem with the TV itself?

Edit: I'm pretty sure the problem is with the TV. 720p and 1080i are fine, only 480p has problems. Any idea how to fix it? Did I just get a bad unit, or are all of them like this?

Yep, I am seeing exactly the same thing with my set. Lots of blue "streaks" or "high-frequency noise". They seem to occur at all times in 480p mode, but are most noticeable in darker scenes. Just hit pause during a dark scene, and look closely at the set. You can't miss them.

For a clear example of this problem, try out the Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones DVD, chapter 17. Pause while the ship is flying towards the planet. If your TV is in 480p mode, you'll see the problem. In 480i mode, the problem goes away.

For reference I'm using a cheap GoVideo D2730 networked dvd player, but I've tried a modded XBox and had the same results. I'm using the YPrPb (component) inputs on the Sceptre.

Yuck. Is 480p over component broken on this set?

HDNOW

12-10-05, 04:56 PM

I'm currently running with milbarge's modeline settings on my Linux box and I am pretty darn happy. My computer desktop looks great. I'm not sure if my DVDs are perfectly smooth, but they are night and day compared to running at 60Hz.

So what does this mean? Is there a downside to running these displays at ~53Hz? Should be be hassling Sceptre for a fix now?

ps - kudos to everyone who figured out this workaround!

DVD is perfectly smooth for me too and it looks great. It's almost looks like 720p? If I didn't know that it was from DVD, I would guess that it's 720p.
Does all DVD, playing on a PC, get upconverted to 720p or 1080p? Was watching Madagascar and Batman Begins, they look great! The darker scene is a little distracting, but the brighter scenes more then make up for it.

navret

12-10-05, 05:10 PM

Thanks Jay_cee. I did note the old msgs referring to the hidden digital output. Maybe Sceptre does not want to fix these problems because many of us will be taking our old sets back to repurchase Rev 3??

Mega2000

12-10-05, 06:26 PM

wondering if anyone tried CVT-RB advance timing settings in nvidia 81.95 drivers?
on my 19" lcd at 1280x1024@75hz in cvt mode the pixel clock is 138.75Mhz and in cvt-rb (reduce blanking) its 114.50Mhz leaves more room for single link dvi of ~165mhz.

Also anyone tried purevideo for their geforce 6+ when playing back HD wmv. On my A64 HD wmv takes a lot of cpu% but with pure video its take very little cpu%.

jay_cee

12-10-05, 06:53 PM

HDNOW: Yes, everything (including DVDs) is getting upscaled to 1080p by your PC. I agree that it looks nice.

navret: Well it depends on which problems you are referring to. Not outputting surround sound from the TV isn't a bug, but rather a design decision they made. Probably to keep the cost down. The other problems, like the 1080p@60 problem, well, I think its in their interest to fix it. If I'm unhappy with my TV, I'll just return it to Costco and get another brand.

kylef

12-10-05, 10:20 PM

Things started to look good at 53Hz...the interval between judder was increasing and dropped frames were decreasing. At 53.286Hz I was pretty darn happy:) I kept stepping up and then settled on a number. I tested either side of it and came to the conclusion that, on my set...

53.306Hz GOT RID OF THE JUDDER AND THERE IS NO TEARING! :)

I too had this judder/tearing problem, as everyone else with a Revision2 set does. It's particularly noticeable on video with lots of panning. But JudderTest makes it even more obvious.

I managed to use PowerStrip to adjust the refresh rate to minimize the problem, and at 53.105Hz JudderTest shows almost no judder or tearing. And indeed, when I play a WMV-HD movie, the resulting image is gorgeous.

Here's the thing, though. This set clearly does NOT do 1080p, which requires 60 Hz. There is something in the signal path inside the TV that is causing "Judder" (which amounts to "skipping" frames and tearing) when fed a 1080p signal above 53Hz. This is not good.

And worse, I really don't think that people should have to go through this nonsense with what amounts to a computer monitor. I just tested my other 2 LCD computer displays, and NEITHER of them show this judder problem at 60Hz.

I've also noted a few other serious problems using this monitor as a TV. Has anyone else noticed these?

480p over component shows scattered blue horizontal noise lines, rendering progressive scan (but not upscaling) DVD players pointless
Black level problems. Using "DVD Video Essentials", I have been completely unable to display the sidebars of the test pattern. Turning up black level has no effect.

At this point, I'm not sure this unit is either a good TV or a good computer monitor. If it weren't for this nice WMV-HD picture I'm staring at right now (which took some work to get), I wouldn't even think about it and the set would be back at Costco.

Also, I've had almost no luck getting decent quality using nVidia's PureVideo DVD decoder with my 6600GT. I'm seeing horrible stuttering. The judder adjustments I made earlier seemed to have no effect on this problem. Has anyone else gotten this DVD decoder working with this set?

milbarge

12-10-05, 10:52 PM

kylef: I tend to agree with you about the set not living up to my expectations; I have a Westinghouse getting here on Monday and am curious to se how they compare side by side. I've already filed a complaint with the California Dept. of Consumer Affairs about their unwillingness to fix an obvious defect under warranty and I'll see what comes of it.

As for the Nvidia Decoder on a vanilla 6600, you will see a stutter when using it via VMR9 (especially if your player doesn't support Full Screen Exclusive Mode). The lowest Nvidia card that can deinterlace HD content using hardware is the 6600GT. However, if you use overlay you can get around most of the limitations and get a pretty smooth picture.

redgtconv

12-10-05, 11:21 PM

There is as easy fix for the blue pixels that seem to fly all over the dark scenes of a dvd using component in. I called Sceptre and a tech walked me through the fix in 2 minutes. Here it is: Turn your tv on and your dvd player on and go to a scene where the blue pixels appear. Then pause the dvd player while the blue pixels are visible. Now go to the tv set and locate the Volume + & - buttons. These will be the third and fourth buttons from the left. Press these two butons at the same time and release them. You will now see a De-Bug program appear at the bottom of the screen. Now go to the remote control and press the number 1. You will now see a scale at the bottom of the screen (mine was set at a value of 2). Use the Volume + & - buttons on the remote control to change this number. In my case I just had to change it to 3 and the blue pixels immediately disappeared from the screen. Then press the exit button on your remote 2 times to get out of the de-bug program and you are set.
I only use the Sceptre for cable tv, over the air hdtv, and dvd play, so now that those blue pixels are gone, I am very happy with this set.

iitywygms

12-11-05, 12:36 AM

Hi Everyone
I will be purchasing a lcd for christmas. I have read these forums and others until my eyes hurt, and have got allot of information. The question I cant seem to find an answer to is, how is this set for high def from comcast and watching a dvd? (Compared to syntax or others in this size and price range) I see some of the issues with tearing and a bad remote but I don't think those issue will bother me if I don't use it as a computer monitor. I am just looking for the best bang for the buck when it comes to viewing high def tv and movies. This set has the best resolution compared to others. Although I know this is a question I should decide for myself, I still want to ask. Is this the set for me?

DyeLooper

12-11-05, 01:01 AM

Polypro

12-11-05, 01:24 AM

...Turn your tv on and your dvd player on and go to a scene where the blue pixels appear. Then pause the dvd player while the blue pixels are visible. Now go to the tv set and locate the Volume + & - buttons. These will be the third and fourth buttons from the left. Press these two butons at the same time and release them. You will now see a De-Bug program appear at the bottom of the screen...

Nice find...wonder what else is hidden in there???? :)

Edit: Wonder if this works with the HDMI port...which didn't have judder, but did have RGB artifacts...

P

iitywygms

12-11-05, 01:59 AM

iitywygms

I did the same thing and finally pulled the trigger the other day on this unit. It took quite awhile, but I did it. I have not received it yet, but think I will be very happy.

Gor for it!!

DyeLooper

Thanks DyeLooper

Thats what I need to hear, I am so close. Anyone else? Especially anyone who thinks I am making a bad choice.

sledge1234

12-11-05, 08:56 AM

The buzz was driving me crazy too. It was one of the main reasons to buy Rev.2.
Guess what, it is still there. Maybe different, but still there. It is not only on VGA, I can hear it on all inputs, even with nothing plugged in the audio jack on the TV.
Even worse, now you can hear it on the DTV input as well.
I have not tried the S-Video input on either revision.

I bought the 37" from Costco in August . My unit has an annoying audio buzz when connected to the computer via VGA. That buzz is there in the VGA mode even with the audio input disconnected.

The audio output when playing a DVD is moderate and during low audio scenes that sync buzz is really bad.

A second problem is the S video input. The decoder produces color fringing to the point were S input cannot be used, the DVD player has to use component input .

Asside from the above the VGA and component picture is just outstanding, pictures from my Sony HD HC1 camera are just incredible on the Sceptre.

Have the above issues been fixed?

I would be very grateful for any input
Thanks,
Eugene

EDIT>>

mod note: no price or sale talk, please. MSRP only, thanks.

jay_cee

12-11-05, 11:33 AM

Interesting observation:

I surfed over to a couple of monitor calibration websites this morning like this one:

http://www.photofriday.com/calibrate.php

I expected to have problems with the black levels, but it was just the opposite - I can distinguish between the blackest blacks, but I can't distinguish between the whitest whites, no matter how I set my constrast.

-J

98silverbullet

12-11-05, 11:37 AM

ittywygms,

I was doing the same thing - weighing each LCD panel on the pros and cons of each. I finally made my decision after two weeks of paging through numerous threads and visiting many stores. I was trying to decide also between plasma and lcd at the same time. After all was done I chose this set. Since I could not view the set and compare to what i saw at the local BB and CC, the costco return policy sealed the deal. They have a really good deal on the set right now with the rebates. Mine will arrive Monday and I can't wait.

bdbb

12-11-05, 02:05 PM

kylef

12-11-05, 02:56 PM

Nice find...wonder what else is hidden in there???? :)

Edit: Wonder if this works with the HDMI port...which didn't have judder, but did have RGB artifacts...

P
Are we all certain that there are no judder issues in progressive modes? That is, with a Comcast HD-DVR at 720p? I'd like to know about all inputs if possible. The inability to operate at 60Hz as a computer display makes me very nervous about keeping this set.

My primary concern is this: when 1080p video sources DO exist, they will be at 60Hz refresh rate. How can we be sure that this set won't have the same judder issues then? If it does, we'll be screwed because we can't configure a Comcast box (or whatever the source is) to output at a slower 53.306Hz refresh rate like we can with a computer...

jay_cee

12-11-05, 03:23 PM

Are we all certain that there are no judder issues in progressive modes? That is, with a Comcast HD-DVR at 720p? I'd like to know about all inputs if possible. The inability to operate at 60Hz as a computer display makes me very nervous about keeping this set.

My primary concern is this: when 1080p video sources DO exist, they will be at 60Hz refresh rate. How can we be sure that this set won't have the same judder issues then? If it does, we'll be screwed because we can't configure a Comcast box (or whatever the source is) to output at a slower 53.306Hz refresh rate like we can with a computer...

I half agree with you.

I think we are a few years away from 1080p sources (other than computer). By the time they start showing up, I'll probably be ready to buy a new display. As long as this 53 Hz workaround will allow me to view anything I want from my computer, I'm ok with it.

I am more curious about confirming that 720p and 1080i sources are stutter free. Those sources are available today and I could definitely see myself buying an HD-DVD player or an xbox 360...

-J

Eugene157

12-11-05, 07:00 PM

Sledge 1234 thanks for the reply. I had planned, after seing thay Costco had the set again in stock, to have mine replaced. But after reading about the video problems I will just stay with what I have.
Have not tried it, but a audio amplifier might be the answer to increase the signal to buzz ratio. or some other way to increase the computer audio output level. 12Db might just be all that is needed.
Or a totally external audio system
Gene

Sutekh

12-11-05, 07:52 PM

Just tried the fix for the blue pixel streak problem, and it works fine now. It's good to see people are having some success with the judder problem, however...Changing the refresh rate doesn't seem like a good fix - it should work as it's supposed to. I ALSO have the problem when viewing from my MyHD-130 card, which is 1080i, not 1080P. In this instance I don't know of any way to change the refresh rate. If it's really a problem with 1080i also, then it should be a problem for ANY HDMI source. I'll continue to play with it a bit, but unless they come up with a fix for the set itself, I will have to return it at some point. I'm also annoyed with the rebate issue - Costco clearly mislead buyers when they said "purchase between Nov... and Dec 5 to get a $100-off coupon" - not only did the coupon NOT go away on the 6th, but now there is an additional $100 mail-in rebate if purchased between Dec 6 and Jan 2. I was told by Costco that they expected I would get the additional rebate, but it was up to the credit department. I was told they would be sending me an email about the status. That was last Thursday - still nothing. Obviously one could just return the set and order a new one, but that seems like a bad deal for everyone. Though I guess with the return policy one would get the mail-in rebate and still be able to return the unit at a later date. Since they have already given a couple of them, they will just do what's right and extend the rebate to all that bought between Nov... and Dec 5 as well. BTW, is anyone missing cables? I'm missing the vga/component cable - which naturally is one I wanted to use today :)

kylef

12-11-05, 08:06 PM

I half agree with you.
I am more curious about confirming that 720p and 1080i sources are stutter free. Those sources are available today and I could definitely see myself buying an HD-DVD player or an xbox 360...

-J
Agreed. I am headed to BestBuy to purchase an upscaling DVD player (HDMI output) to test out 720p and 1080i over HDMI tonight. (My DVD player was failing to read some discs anyway, so it is about time for an upgrade.) I'll let you know what I see.

sledge1234

12-11-05, 10:46 PM

Seems that the debug menu can do more. There are other functions on other keys of the remote.
White Balance
Step
RGB adjustments
HDCP
If anyone is willing to explore...

Thanks, this fixed my TV. It was going to be returned for sure after it started displaying the pixels in 720p and 1080i in addition to 480p. Now I'll probably keep it if Costco is willing to give me the rebate.

Zoglog

12-11-05, 11:00 PM

wow it's been awhile since I checked back on this thread but with the TV being in V2 I was wondering if they made any improvements but from the sound of things it got worse?

My coworker wants to buy this set. So far the only changes i've seen browsing back are

- Jittering Bug
- darker Coat of Paint
- New port

Anything i'm missing? Did they fix that whole 720p dispalyed with the ATSC tunrer problem?

redgtconv

12-12-05, 12:52 AM

I just bought a Toshiba upscaling dvd player at Costco today. The only dvd I had to try it out on was the tv series "24". I played it on 480p, 720p, and 1080i. I really couldn't tell much of difference in any of these settings. Is this because this was a tv show and not a Hollywood movie? Don't get me wrong, the picture was very good, however, I just couldn't tell the difference in picture quality when I changed the resolution on the dvd player. Has anyone else experienced something different? I have ver.2 of the Sceptre.

jkresh

12-12-05, 01:10 AM

redgtconv a cheap upscaling dvd player (anything less the $500 and most likely less then $1000) isint likely going to have much of an impact on quality (and in some cases my even lesson quality). Though a tv show would not likley be the best way to check.

hazard0us

12-12-05, 01:27 AM

HTBruceM

12-12-05, 02:04 AM

I got a chance to play with this TV today for a while, doing evaluation of it for a friend. Here are my takeaways on this tv.

Component input - tested this with two different DVD players, an inexpensive Toshiba DVD player (vintage 2003) and a Denon 2910. Even though the Toshiba was set for progressive, the TV never saw it as progressive, always 480i. The Denon was sensed at 480p. With the Denon, we saw the small blue streaks on dark material (noise?). We did not have the debug mode fix for this at the time. On the Toshiba, we saw horizontal shadows at the very top 3 inches, farther apart at the top, and getting progressively closer together at about 2.5" from the top. Below that, they were gone. No such things using the Denon. The biggest issue (and a deal breaker too) was the inability to shut off the "DCI", which I believe is some sort of dynamic contrast setting. This feature seems to be based on the incoming video stream rather than ambient lighting of the room. It constantly toggled between different contrast settings on various frames of video. Unbelievable that you cannot disable this feature on the component inputs.

HDMI input: Tried this from a Comcast HD DVR. Std def video looked terrible, nearly unwatchable. I suspect this is more due to the A/D and scaler in the DVR rather than a problem with the TV. Digital channels looked decent, and HD looked VERY nice.

Internal tuner - ATSC: We used a little Jensen table top antenna, which had marginal results. We then hooked it to an exterior-mounted Channelmaster Stealth antenna; much better. HD content looked VERY good. Digital broadcasts looked very good. Autoscanning was reasonably fast, and all the locals came in at around 78-79% signal strength. I noticed that the sharpness control needed to be at about 2 or so; putting it at 0 resulted in a defocused picture. We never did figure out how to type in a "-" character; for the stations renamed to 2-1, 6-1, 6-2 and so forth, you could not directly type in the channel. We had to rely on the EPG menu completely.

Internal tuner - NTSC: We connected to a Comcast catv feed. All analog. Very watchable in SD from at least 6 ft away. If you are closer than that, the grainy picture was difficult to watch.

Overall: It was very disappointing that DCI could not be disabled on the component inputs, and this was ultimately the deal breaker. The set is being returned to Costco this week because of this. It was just too annoying to have the contrast constantly toggling between two settings depending on the video frame content. The controls being mounted on the underside of the cabinet was a little user unfriendly. There was a screen-door effect on this TV, something I did not expect in a 37" native 1080 lines display. I believe this is due to the inter-pixel spacing of the panel; something that a higher quality panel might not have. Still, the SDE resulted in a very small grid, and became invisible at about 3-4 feet away, so that situation alone isn't too bad. I have seen less noticable SDE on 1080P DLPs and Sony SXRD at 60 inches... I suspect the HDMI input might look OK on a DVD player with good upscaling but we didn't have the time to try that using the Denon 2910. The inherent macro-blocking problem with the Denon DVD player would have been a noticable issue. All TV nowadays should have video settings remembered independently for each input; this set does not. You have 1 USER setting and 3 or 4 preset settings, but these are simply global settings that you had to cycle through every time you switched inputs.

All in all, I think this TV is a bargain unless you plan to use the component inputs. ;) It has a reasonable set of features.

redgtconv

12-12-05, 02:04 AM

When you input a 1080p source does the OSD indicate 1080p? I noticed that in the DTV menu, you can format the screen to 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i, but not 1080p. Why is that? Does that mean when they eventually broadcast in 1080p or dvd's are in 1080p, the tv will only show 1080i? I have Sceptre ver.2. I just read a professional review of Sharp's new 1080p 45" lcd's, in which the reviewer states that even though the sets are capable of 1080p output, the electronics of the tv's do not support 1080p. He goes on to state that because of this, these tv's will be obsolete in a couple of years and therefore recommends that people wait until next March when a new series of tv's by Sharp will be available and they will finally actually support 1080p. Is this the case with the Sceptre? Costco's website states the the Sceptre "supports 1080p"? What the heck does that really mean? Will it only show 1080p thru a computer?

redgtconv

12-12-05, 02:39 AM

In reference to my previous post please read this brief article on cnet about 1080p tv's and tell me which category the Sceptre falls into.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11246_7-6388574.html

dmodemd

12-12-05, 08:37 AM

HDMI input: Tried this from a Comcast HD DVR (motorola 6214). Std def video looked terrible, nearly unwatchable. I suspect this is more due to the A/D and scaler in the DVR rather than a problem with the TV. Digital channels looked decent, and HD looked VERY nice.

I disagree about std def. I am using the Comcast 6412 (is the proper model # I believe?) using DVI/HDMI and the std def is quite incredible. I was using Component to my Panasonic rear projection HDTV and this TV with the HDMI/DVI connection is much better. The std def is very nicely upconverted. You have to get really close to see the anti-aliasing on the edges. I was expecting much worse and was very pleasantly surprised.

I am using component to my DVD player but havent even watched anything from it other than what I was recording in SD, so I cant comment on the contrast concern.

Lee

jtanwanteng

12-12-05, 09:50 AM

recieved my unit on friday, hooked it up on saturday, my rating so far...8.5/10

Gripes:

noticed slight slight tearing and stuttering on 1080p VGA - not enough to affect my viewing experience. i'll try the 53hz thing later to see if that helps, but honestly, i don't notice it unless i look for it. It probably would be more obvious on content with more panning, i was mostly watching quicktime and windows media trailers. Videogames at 1080p will have to wait until i get a better video card, but other resolutions were completely fine, either native or stretched. No apparent sound/input lag.

line-out audio is a PITA because it seems you can't control the volume with the TV remote. I have to pick up the remote for my reciever and change it....

ATSC channel changing is molasses slow, avg 5+ seconds between each channel change

I did notice the brightness reset issue, but it only happened once, and i'm not interested in reproducing it.

Also, i'm not sure how to get back into the ATSC channel scanning menu after you do it the first time.... anybody know how to do this?

Raves:

picture quality is excellent, brightness is through the roof, i keep it at the zero level. Contrast ratio is excellent, and although black level isn't the best i've seen, it is way within the acceptable range. Color is more vivid than any set i've ever owned (tvs or monitors) No apparent ghosting.

1080p was easy as hooking up vga output from my radeon 9000 and changing the desktop resolution to 1920x1080. 1:1 was immediately apparant, and the auto adjust feature on the set centered it perfectly.

DVD viewing was also excellent with VLC media player (easy scaling/black bar crop, no framerate hiccups), not so great with Windows media player, windvd and winamp. upconversion with VLC looked pretty good, although i'm not sure what the best out there looks like.

FOOTBALL IN HD!!! invited my dad over on sunday and we drooled nonstop for 6 hours straight.

Overall, very satisfied with the purchase. would definitely recommend to anybody looking for a 1080p media center monitor. OTA HDTV viewing a little bit of a chore with the slow channel changing. I'm guessing HD cable or satellite users wouldn't have this problem.

TheeeGod

12-12-05, 10:30 AM

lots of good info in this thread but i just wanted to run this question by the owners of this set: would this TV be ideal for watching HDTV via cable? or is there another set i should consider as this one appeals for to the HTPC crowd?

HTBruceM

12-12-05, 10:32 AM

I disagree about std def. I am using the Comcast 6412 (is the proper model # I believe?) using DVI/HDMI and the std def is quite incredible. Nevertheless, this was not our experience. DVI from the Moto stb was a very grainy appearance; no amount of tweaking in the TV settings could clear this up. I also have similar results with my Mits DLP using the DVI out from the Moto stb. So I conclude this is an artifact of something in the Moto stb. Component out from the Moto box does not have this issue. We did not try changing the moto stb to 720p; we only tried 1080i.

One thing I forgot to mention. We also hooked up std analog cable and used the NTSC tuner to bring in all 70+ cable channels. The NTSC tuner cleaned up the analog signal nicely and this input was very watchable. We compared the same channels using the Moto stb via DVI/HDMI compared with the built-in NTSC tuner. The TV tuner looked much better.

donsev

12-12-05, 11:34 AM

Edit: Wonder if this works with the HDMI port...which didn't have judder, but did have RGB artifacts...

Are we all certain that there are no judder issues in progressive modes? That is, with a Comcast HD-DVR at 720p? I'd like to know about all inputs if possible. The inability to operate at 60Hz as a computer display makes me very nervous about keeping this set.

My primary concern is this: when 1080p video sources DO exist, they will be at 60Hz refresh rate. How can we be sure that this set won't have the same judder issues then? If it does, we'll be screwed because we can't configure a Comcast box (or whatever the source is) to output at a slower 53.306Hz refresh rate like we can with a computer...

As, I had posted earlier, Sceptre-lcd is using a Lumagen HDP that appears to be able to drive 1080p and sceptre-lcd reports that he does not see jitter on DVI. But, without being able to compare to a reference file (YNOS - Beetle WMVHD clip) it is impossible to say that we are looking for/seeing or not seeing, the same thing.

I received my 37 inch sceptre yesterday and was able to get it work over DVI driven by a Lumagen HDP. I did see some jitter in the beginning and I think still see jitter if i am in HDMI or HDMI/HDCP mode but the DVI mode does not seem to have jitter and is stable.

I can only assume that the Lumagen defaults to 720p@60Hz and 1080p@60Hz, but I am not certain. As, well, I am not certain that selecting the HDMI (HDMI or HDMI/HDCP) doesn't force the display into 1080i mode. (Which was something that was suggested in the thread discussing driving the Sharp 45" LCD at 1080p) and that what sceptre-lcd is reporting is actually de-interlacing artifacts.

I am also wondering whether this is not an issue beyond the Sceptre 37" Ver. 2 set.

Has anyone with the Sceptre Ver. 1 set run the JudderTest to determine if to get the most stable picture, you have had to back down the refresh rate??

Has anyone with the Westinghouse 37" run the JudderTest to determine if to get the most stable picture, you have had to back down the refresh rate??

milbarge, you are receiving your Westy today? It would be very helpful to see the results of running JudderTest on the same PC system with the two different displays, please post your timing findings if you can.

If you would, also post your findings on the following thread below (if anyone can test the Sceptre Ver.1, please post those timings as well).

Frame rate on current 1080p FP LCDs? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=615822)

YNOS

12-12-05, 12:12 PM

YNOS

12-12-05, 01:12 PM

I too had this judder/tearing problem, as everyone else with a Revision2 set does. It's particularly noticeable on video with lots of panning. But JudderTest makes it even more obvious.

I managed to use PowerStrip to adjust the refresh rate to minimize the problem, and at 53.105Hz JudderTest shows almost no judder or tearing. And indeed, when I play a WMV-HD movie, the resulting image is gorgeous.

Here's the thing, though. This set clearly does NOT do 1080p, which requires 60 Hz. There is something in the signal path inside the TV that is causing "Judder" (which amounts to "skipping" frames and tearing) when fed a 1080p signal above 53Hz. This is not good.

And worse, I really don't think that people should have to go through this nonsense with what amounts to a computer monitor. I just tested my other 2 LCD computer displays, and NEITHER of them show this judder problem at 60Hz.

I've also noted a few other serious problems using this monitor as a TV. Has anyone else noticed these?

480p over component shows scattered blue horizontal noise lines, rendering progressive scan (but not upscaling) DVD players pointless
Black level problems. Using "DVD Video Essentials", I have been completely unable to display the sidebars of the test pattern. Turning up black level has no effect.

At this point, I'm not sure this unit is either a good TV or a good computer monitor. If it weren't for this nice WMV-HD picture I'm staring at right now (which took some work to get), I wouldn't even think about it and the set would be back at Costco.

Also, I've had almost no luck getting decent quality using nVidia's PureVideo DVD decoder with my 6600GT. I'm seeing horrible stuttering. The judder adjustments I made earlier seemed to have no effect on this problem. Has anyone else gotten this DVD decoder working with this set?First off; well said!

I'm somewhat pleased that people have found a work-around to the judder/tearing problem and I'll wipe the dust off my copy of Power Strip to try it myself later, but we shouldn't have to install special software just to work around what I see as a huge bug with this Version 2 monitor. What's worse is according to the responses I and others have received from Sceptre tech support, it is still unclear that they even acknowledge this problem exists, let alone have plans to fix it.

I feel that a high percentage of monitors being returned to Sceptre because of the jitter/judder/stutter/tearing problem would speak a lot louder than e-mails and more likely lead to a fix. If nearly everyone is happy with the work-around, there will likely never be a fix.

I wish I could turn the clock forward a couple years when there will be plenty of other 37" (and larger) 1920x1080 monitors available to choose from at a realistic price so I could just take my Ver.2 Sceptre back and pick out a nice mythical 42" 1920x1080p Sharp from Costco for under 2 grand.

Polypro

12-12-05, 01:23 PM

I'd send mine back in a heartbeat (I didn't use Costco:() if I was sure I wouldn't get:

A. "We found no problem"

or

B. Get back an identical set with the same problems.

Sceptre needs to acknowledge the problem. If I lived near them, I'd drive my HTPC and Display down to them myself and have them watch it @60Hz.

P

YNOS

12-12-05, 01:35 PM

Polypro

12-12-05, 01:43 PM

Good call :) Other than wanting a properly designed display (Which I will insist on if/when Sceptre admits the problem), It's watchable with the work around. I don't have that "Buyer's Remorse" feeling at all. But I say again, Sceptre WILL get this set back if a fixed v3 arrives. Come on Sceptre, we know your reading...buck up and take care of your customers. Send out the fix with the hardware that plugs into the "Mystery Port"...we'll update it and send the hardware back :) Sure would cut down on returned sets...

P

Polypro

12-12-05, 01:47 PM

Seems that the debug menu can do more. There are other functions on other keys of the remote.
White Balance
Step
RGB adjustments
HDCP
If anyone is willing to explore...

I'm keeping a list...maybe we'll get the full menu system eventually. Can you list the keys for your above finds?

P

sfhub

12-12-05, 08:20 PM

[Edit. For example, check out this thread on the Sharp Aquos 45" LCD and attempts to get the unit to work with it's DVI connection @ 1920x1080. Not only do they have to jump through more hoops than are necessary for the Sceptre 37", but it looks like they have to deal with fine tuning the "judder" issue out as well. Which brings up something mentioned in that thread. Perhaps the HDMI and HDMI-HDCP settings on the Sceptre 37" use 1080i with overscan - this seems to be how the Sharp works and sounds consistent with the Sceptre results. It would theoretically cut in half the bandwidth required, thus some scenes might look better (Beatle pan) but would introduce de-interlacing artifacts and loss of fine detail - similiar to what others have posted. On the Sharp thread, some have suggested running at 50 and 48Hz with 1080p]

[Edit again. Forgot to post thread;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=609897 ]
I think you've misinterpreted the information on that thread.

The only Sharp model which can use an input source of 1920x1080p@60Hz is the LC-45GX6U. This is accomplished by bypassing the external video processor unit and connecting your PC directly to the panel. The other models will accept 1080i input and will deinterlace that to panel's native 1080p display. Overscan on HDMI and DVI can be turned off for 1080i input using the "Dot by Dot" view mode.

I have run JutterTest 1.1 on LC-45GX6U and there is no judder at all that I can notice. There are no dropped frames after running for 800 seconds.

bdbb

12-12-05, 08:53 PM

What brightness/contrast/color settings are you all using? I'm having trouble getting mine calibrated the way I want. Specifically in Project Gotham Racing 3, a lot of the shadows from trees can make the racetrack too dark and hard to navigate. Pushing the brightness up makes the overall image far too gray for my tastes.

The ideal sharpness seems to be pretty obvious. Anything below 5 or 6 removes detail from the picture, whereas artifacts are introduced above those levels.

I will say though, HD broadcasts and std. def stuff both look great on this TV and are much better than expected. The Cowboys game yesterday was absolutely eye-popping.

For those interested, this TV does not ghost nearly as bad as I've seen other LCDs do it. There is a slight loss of detail when panning across a scene, but this TV performs much better than the Samsungs in the Xbox 360 kiosks for instance. It does an admirable job of keeping up with Madden, COD2, PGR3, Kameo, and Perfect Dark. Only NBA2k6 has enough blurring to be troublesome.

sfhub

12-12-05, 09:01 PM

Wonder why my Front Porch is so low? I don't know anything about this stuff. What are these settings telling us about the hardware components in the TV?

Polypro: 1920x1080=1920,88,44,148,1080,4,5,36,131931,768

millbarge: 1920x1080=1920,536,40,144,1080,4,5,36,158318,768

HDNOW: 1920x1080=1920,367,44,144,1080,4,5,36,148500,768

Your front porch is much lower than the rest because you are running using reduced blanking interval settings. This is the appropriate method to run 1920x1080p@60Hz over single-link DVI.

millbarge's settings are out of whack (not the way he has them currently configured, but if you reverse the settings back to 60Hz). When I used his settings and bumped the vertical refresh back up to 60Hz, the bandwidth needed was 178MHz. The HDMI/DVI spec uses a TMDS transmitter with max 165MHz for single-link so this is way over. Symptoms of degraded or out of spec TMDS signals are tearing and various other digital artifacts.

When I perform the same backing out of HDNOW's settings to 60Hz, the bandwidth is 166MHz. Given those settings I'm not surprised you guys are getting streaking and TMDS related artifacts because the signal is out of spec. The juddering could be something else or related, I don't know.

Also for HDNOW's settings, front porch of 367 could end up being problematic for others because many video cards only like porch settings which are divisible by 8. I know many ATI Radeon cards behave that way.

Given all you folks are connected to the same monitor, I'm surprised your PowerStrip settings have bandwidths and blanking interval settings that are varying all over the map.

What does the EDID of the Sceptre monitor say is the preferred modeline for 1920x1080p@60Hz? I don't own a Sceptre so I can't get that information myself. I'm mainly commenting on whether the posted settings you guys are using make sense or not.

jpconard

12-12-05, 09:22 PM

Donsev,

V1 set owner, I downloaded Juddertest and Powerstrip. Ran the test and it looked fine.

Not sure what numbers you would want to see.

Powerstrip string 1920,96,40,144,1080,4,10,30,148500,0
Pixel rate: 148500
Hor. - Active 1920, Front 96, Sync 40, Back 144, Total 2200, Scan 67.5
Ver. - Active 1080, Front 4, Sync 10, Back 30, Refresh 60.053

Font - Lucida Console 11

Judder test
Frame rate - 1 refresh/frame 60.053 frames/sec
Bar speed 1
Bar width 10
Bar count 15
refresh skip 1

no dropped frames, panning looks smooth to me.

donsev

12-12-05, 09:40 PM

I think you've misinterpreted the information on that thread.

Not only is that possible, but probable :D

sfhub, glad to have your feedback.

I understand that the 6U was the only unit capable of supporting 1080p@60Hz. My reference to "jumping through hoops" was because of the need to bypass the AVC box and, as you state;

1) set your PC resolution to 1280x1024 and shutdown PC
2) connect PC to 45 GX by DVI (disconnect all 3 AVC cables)
3) turn on 45 GX panel
4) turn on PC
5) change resolution to 1920x1080@60

But of course, this becomes even more complicated if you are not using an HTPC or want to use the built in tuner via the AVC box (the KVM switcher solution etc.).

The reason that I believed that the 6U did not support 1080p@60Hz was perhaps due to mariner888 posts suggesting to try "50 and 48Hz refresh rates". I had assumed that was because of frame drop at 60Hz.

Again, we value your input and look forward to comments from anyone who can help shed some light on this issue.

gc_chi

12-12-05, 11:01 PM

milbarge

12-12-05, 11:11 PM

YNOS

12-12-05, 11:24 PM

Is anyone having trouble with the black level menu? While watching HD cable over the HDMI to DVI port, I get the black level menu option, but making changes neither seems to effect the picture nor the changes "stick". The level always goes back to zero.

ChiThat bug has always existed in both versions of the set. Don't worry about it defaulting to zero since the adjustment does nothing anyway.

YNOS

12-12-05, 11:41 PM

I just got my Westy today and it is really night and day. I had convinced myself that the picture quality and the stuttering were acceptable, but the same recordings on the Westinghouse are SO much smoother and clearer, that there is really no question that the Sceptre must go back.

As for my Powerstrip settings, they quite possibly were overtaxing the HDMI link and causing my issues. I had no idea what I was doing and just changed settings at random until I got a decent looking picture. Oh well time to go lurk on the Westinghouse thread...
I just spent the last 3 hours messing with PowerStrip. I set my timings as close to those suggested in this thread as I could, although they'd jump a little above or below the suggested 53.306Hz. It cleared up a lot of the tearing, but while watching an HD movie, the video still would go nuts every few seconds and it never looked as good as with my V.1 set.

I never thought I'd consider the Westinghouse, but it seems to be the only alternative available. I'll keep my Spectre until just after the holidays, but then it's going back to Costco. I'll hold out as long as I can with my tiny 19" backup monitor and hope Sceptre fixes this problem. If not, I'll head over to BestBuy to check out the Westinghouse even though that place makes me nauseous.

sfhub

12-13-05, 12:01 AM

My reference to "jumping through hoops" was because of the need to bypass the AVC box and, as you state;

Much simpler would have been:
1) set your PC resolution to 1280x1024 and shutdown PC
2) connect PC to 45 GX by DVI (disconnect all 3 AVC cables)
3) turn on 45 GX panel
4) turn on PC
5) change resolution to 1920x1080@60

...
But of course, this becomes even more complicated if you are not using an HTPC or want to use the built in tuner via the AVC box (the KVM switcher solution etc.).

The reason that I believed that the 6U did not support 1080p@60Hz was perhaps due to mariner888 posts suggesting to try "50 and 48Hz refresh rates". I had assumed that was because of frame drop at 60Hz.

Again, we value your input and look forward to comments from anyone who can help shed some light on this issue.
I understand it can be confusing when reading a thread about a display you are not using :) Just think how confused I am reading the Sceptre thread :)

Regarding how simple or hard it is to use Sharp LC-45GX6U, it is basically the same as any other monitor. As long as you never unpack the AVC, the only extra step is to set your graphics card at 1280x1024 prior to connecting to the Sharp display panel. This is just a *one time* initial setup. After you have configured your graphics card for 1920x1080p@60Hz, you never have to worry about this again. Just turn on the monitor and turn on your PC. Everything works fine. No need to change any resolutions at all, it just works.

The setup is slightly more complicated if you plan on using your HTPC and your AVC.

Regarding mariner888, I think he wanted me to see if 50Hz and 48Hz were *also* judder free. I imagine that might have something to do with PAL playback capabilities.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6639192&&#post6639192
Your have also observed that the panel would accept signal at a lower pixel clock rate. Did you get a chance to run powerstrip at 50 and 48Hz refresh rates, using same horizontal and vertical porches but with pixel clocks of 123.75Mhz and 118.8Mhz? It would be interesting to see if the panel runs judder free at these refresh rates as well.

My suggestion to you folks would be to compare the EDID from a v1 Sceptre against the EDID from a v2 Sceptre. The pattern of you folks coming up with wildly varying PowerStrip timing/bench/porch info points to a possibility the EDID is not correct or is missing in v2 Sceptre, so PowerStrip/Windows are using whatever generic timings they have available. This is just a guess, it could be something else entirely.

ShouldHaveWaited

12-13-05, 01:01 AM

My suggestion to you folks would be to compare the EDID from a v1 Sceptre against the EDID from a v2 Sceptre. The pattern of you folks coming up with wildly varying PowerStrip timing/bench/porch info points to a possibility the EDID is not correct or is missing in v2 Sceptre, so PowerStrip/Windows are using whatever generic timings they have available. This is just a guess, it could be something else entirely.

Whats the best way to check a monitor's EDID? I tried checking the EDID tab under advance timing in powerstrip and the list came up blank. Could this mean the monitor is missing its EDID?

sfhub

12-13-05, 02:18 AM

Whats the best way to check a monitor's EDID? I tried checking the EDID tab under advance timing in powerstrip and the list came up blank. Could this mean the monitor is missing its EDID?
It is quite possible it is missing. For my Sharp LC-45GX6U, EDID tab has video formats populated. For EDID, try moninfo from entech.

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/util/moninfo.shtm

donsev

12-13-05, 08:14 AM

It is quite possible it is missing.

FWIW, I was never able to get usable EDID information (through moninfo) for the Sceptre 30" set. And I have never seen a reply to my requests for others to post their results (for the 30" or for that matter for the 37" - I had asked several pages back.)

jpconard,

I don't have the 37" set yet, so I would ask that those who have run the JudderTest on the Ver. 2 set compare your results to those jpconard posted several messages back and comment.

It looks like you were able to run @ 60.053Hz for the refresh rate, and you say the bar looked fine? How long had you run the test?

I thought I would post the following reply to my post on the "Frame rate on current 1080p FP LCDs? " thread;

Quote:
Originally Posted by donsev
I am not sure of the significance of these findings, but testing on the Ver. 2 of the Sceptre 37" LCD unit is showing that timing of ~ 53.xxxHz provides the most stable output running JudderTest.

To me, that is signifigant information. Heres why:

You can generally "overdrive" a display beyond it's native sync. rate which should be related to the power input cycle on "normal" display designs.

Many Gamers (especially in the past) would overdrive their displays refresh rate, and alot of hi-end (especially "back in the day") CRT monitors contains circuitry to increase the sync rate natively.

That being said, heres what I think of your findings...
1. The Sceptre is truely a "Euro" or "Asian" design, made to run at 220-230 VAC 50hz. The unit would contain a power step up transformer, but not an inverter.
(The transformer would convert the 120VAC to 220VAC but not change the cycle, An Inverter would do the same AND change the cycle to 60hz.)
AND...You are "overdriving" your display to 53hz

OR
2. A poor design of the unit. Poor meaning, cost saving, not durability.

OR
3. Possible timing issues between the display, the cable, the video card, and/or the connection type.

I could be wrong though. Anyone, please feel free to chime in if my post is inaccurate or off base :-)

spham67

12-13-05, 08:17 AM

I got my version 2 set from costco yesterday. I used a mac powerbook to test the dvi/hdmi connection at 1920x1080. When I first plugged it in it was red and jittered when I moved the mouse, however when I followed this sequence everything looked fine including a dvd played on the mac and displayed at 1080p on the tv.
1. turn on tv, select dvi input
2. connect dvi to mac
3. turn on mac
4. done
I think the key thing is that the computer needs to come on after the tv.

I also tried 1080p over the vga using the mac's dvi to vga cable, that also looked great.

As for HDTV, I bought a phillips amplified antenna from walmart and that worked fairly well in the newport news,va area with the exception of not being able to pick up pbs.

Polypro

12-13-05, 11:25 AM

So how exactly would one paint a Westy black....:)

moninfo.exe gave me a lot of info...I'll post it when I get home.

I'll also try the TV on, then Computer on tip, thanks mate.

P

(The non-Costco buyer)

Polypro

12-13-05, 01:42 PM

EDID Info from moninfo.exe

Monitor
Windows description......... Plug and Play Monitor
Manufacturer................ SEP
————————————————————————————
Plug and Play ID............ SEP0064
Serial number............... 777 (153100777)
EDID data source............ I2C bus (real-time)
————————————————————————————
Manufacture date............ 2005, ISO week 31
EDID revision............... 1.3
Display type and signal..... Digital
Sync input support.......... n/a
Screen size................. 700 x 390 mm (~33")
Power management............ Active off/sleep

Color characteristics
Display gamma............... 2.20
Red chromaticity............ Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.341
Green chromaticity.......... Gx 0.286 - Gy 0.610
Blue chromaticity........... Bx 0.146 - By 0.069
White point (default)....... Wx 0.284 - Wy 0.293

Timing characteristics
VESA GTF support............ Supported
Horizontal scan range....... n/a
Vertical scan range......... n/a
Video bandwidth............. n/a
Extension blocks............ 1
Timing recommendation #1.... 1920x1080 at 60Hz
Modeline................ "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 +hsync +vsync
Timing recommendation #2.... 2072x1363 at 47Hz
Modeline................ "2072x1363" 358.400 2072 2121 2946 5308 1363 1366 1368 1432 -hsync -vsync

Standard timings supported
640 x 480 at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600 at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768 at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768 at 75Hz - VESA
1280 x 1024 at 60Hz - VESA
1280 x 1024 at 75Hz - VESA
1600 x 1200 at 60Hz - VESA
1920 x 1080 at 60Hz - SEP
2072 x 1363 at 47Hz - SEP

Raw EDID base
00: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 4C B0 64 00 09 03 00 00
10: 1F 0F 01 03 81 46 27 78 2B D5 7C A3 57 49 9C 25
20: 11 48 4B 21 0B 00 A9 40 81 80 01 01 01 01 01 01
30: 01 01 01 01 01 01 02 3A 80 18 71 38 2C 40 58 2C
40: 4A 00 C4 8E 21 00 00 1E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 8C 18 A4
70: 8C 53 45 50 31 39 32 30 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 2B

Raw EDID extension (CEA-861)
00: 02 03 20 F1 49 01 02 03 04 85 06 07 08 09 23 09
10: 57 07 83 01 00 00 65 03 0C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 72

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number............. 3
DTV underscan............... Supported
Basic audio................. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4................. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2................. Supported
Native formats supported.... 1
DTV formats supported....... 9

CE standard timings supported
640 x 480p at 59.94/60Hz (4:3) - Default
720 x 480p at 59.94/60Hz (4:3) - EDTV
720 x 480p at 59.94/60Hz (16:9) - EDTV
1280 x 720p at 59.94/60Hz (16:9) - HDTV
1920 x 1080i at 59.94/60Hz (16:9) - HDTV (Native)
720 x 480i at 59.94/60Hz (4:3) - Doublescan
720 x 480i at 59.94/60Hz (16:9) - Doublescan
720 x 240p at 59.94/60Hz (4:3) - Doublescan
720 x 240p at 59.94/60Hz (16:9) - Doublescan

Display adapter
Adapter description......... NVIDIA GeForce 6600
Adapter device ID........... 0x00F210DE
Display settings............ 1920x1080, 32bpp

User/computer information
Registered user name........ Ron
Registered organization..... Home
Network user name........... Ron
Network computer name....... HTPC
Windows version ............ Windows XP
Windows build .............. 5.01.2600 Service Pack 2
Installation date .......... 8/31/2005 12:00:00 PM

sfhub

12-13-05, 02:44 PM

Out of curiosity, what happens when you cut/paste the following modeline into powerstrip:

"1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2056 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 +hsync +vsync

Just highlight, press ctrl-c

Go into powerstrip advanced timings and there is an icon at the bottom to paste timings.

After pressing that icon, verify the bandwidth displayed in 148.5 MHz and interlaced in not checked. If bandwidth is differenct, paste again.

Click apply and see if streaking or judder is improved.

I adjusted the timings from your EDID a little to make sure the horizontal #s are divisible by 8.

Not saying this will improve anything, but it is worth a try.

Polypro

12-13-05, 02:51 PM

sfhub

12-13-05, 04:08 PM

Still at work sfhub, but I'll try it in about 90 mins and report back. I was also looking at that 2072x1363/47 timing, but I'm clueless when it comes to timings. Thanks for another lead. Right now I rolled backed to the MS standard driver...should I install the Sceptre .inf? (Attached).
I don't think it'll make a big difference either way (in this case) since you are forcing timings in PowerStrip. I looked over Sceptre.inf you provided and the only 2 things it provides are a "friendly name" for your display "SCEPTRE X37SV-Naga" and the range limits

HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",MODE1,,"30-90,50-75,+,+"
HKR,,MAXRESOLUTION,,"1920,1080"
HKR,,DPMS,,1

This stuff should have been provided in the EDID, but apparently it is not. It is supposed to protect you from going out of acceptable range for the display, so it is safer to use Sceptre.inf.

donsev

12-13-05, 04:56 PM

kylef

12-13-05, 05:19 PM

So ever since I've downloaded Power Strip and used it to drive the set at 53.3Hz, anything played back in Media Player has been great. WMV-HD and DVDs look great, both in windowed mode and full-screen.

But I have not been able to get acceptable results from Media Center. I couldn't figure out what was going on.

Lo and Behold, I think I figured out the problem. Whenever I load up the Media Center UI, it appears to change the screen refresh rate back to 60Hz. Whenever I exit full-screen mode, the refresh rate goes back to 53.306Hz. That would certainly account for the poor video quality I was seeing for my recorded TV and DVDs played back through the MCE 2005 UI.

According to my searches, there appears to be a registry hack to get Media Center to stop doing this refresh rate adjustment. I'll post back once I get it working.

But anyway, I thought I'd share in case others were trying to run this set using Media Center and might be seeing the same thing.

sfhub

12-13-05, 05:32 PM

Speaking of which, since I have not been running JudderTest myself, could someone who has been using it comment on what info we should be posting to clearly document those displays that DO support 1080p versus those that don't.
AFAICT there are 2 tests provided by JudderTest v1.1. Judder test has green vertical bars which scroll horizontally across the screen. There are various screen stats at the top and at the bottom it tells you how many seconds the test has been running along with how many frames were dropped. There are keyboard shortcuts which allow you to change the refresh without exiting the test. Basically you adjust the refresh until there is no judder or dropped frames.

The second test is the Buffer test. This test has 12 vertical bars at fixed locations across the screen. It will illuminate each bar in sequence. If any bar location does not flash, frames are being dropped.

This is all probably documented somewhere.

kylef

12-13-05, 06:10 PM

AFAICT there are 2 tests provided by JudderTest v1.1. Judder test has green vertical bars which scroll horizontally across the screen. There are various screen stats at the top and at the bottom it tells you how many seconds the test has been running along with how many frames were dropped. There are keyboard shortcuts which allow you to change the refresh without exiting the test. Basically you adjust the refresh until there is no judder or dropped frames.

The second test is the Buffer test. This test has 12 vertical bars at fixed locations across the screen. It will illuminate each bar in sequence. If any bar location does not flash, frames are being dropped.

This is all probably documented somewhere.

The test that we really care about in this thread is the "scrolling bar" test, not the buffer test. The bars should scroll across the screen completely smoothly, with no jittering, jumping, skipping, or pausing. In addition, the bars should remain intact at all times, and should NEVER separate (even for a split second) into a "torn" bar where the top half is separated from the bottom half.

At 60Hz, the Sceptre v.2 sets show both of these problems. The bars seem to "skip" when scrolling, and occasionally they tear.

And just FYI, the "frames dropped" counter at the bottom of the screen is not providing info about how many frames your TV dropped (how could it?), but rather how many frames the test program dropped due to CPU activity (usually hardware interrupts or other threads running). It is simply letting you know that if you just saw a glitch, it was probably not caused by your display, but rather by the fact that JudderTest was not able to display output due to other computer activity. This glitch info is reported by video drivers via WMI. Reporting this counter back to AVSForum is not important for our purposes.

Zoglog

12-13-05, 06:21 PM

Zoglog - I think the 720p-only ATSC tuner has been replaced in the Revision 2 sets with a tuner that can render 1080i to the display, though this seems to have been at the expense of the loss of the internal optical output. Can anyone conform this?

So -

1) jittering bug w/ 1080p source material, can be fixed using 53.306Hz custom output rate
2) case is black
3) ATSC tuner changed - 1080i works better, but no optical output any more
4) new USB socket, reportedly for firmware upgrades

Well if that's the current List I assume trading my V1 for a V2 would be a bad idea Since I dont use the Tuner and I use it for the PC or Game consoles all the time.

I wonder what the Jittering and tearing looks like though. Hmmm It's a bit dissapointing that they would not improve many of the problems.

Actually can we confirm that they fixed the lamp bug or the autocontrast shifting?

sfhub

12-13-05, 07:14 PM

It is simply letting you know that if you just saw a glitch, it was probably not caused by your display, but rather by the fact that JudderTest was not able to display output due to other computer activity. This glitch info is reported by video drivers via WMI. Reporting this counter back to AVSForum is not important for our purposes.
Given the diverse nature of the setups people run it doesn't hurt to confirm there are zero dropped frames to rule out your specific setup being the cause of the judder. It is even possible someone has judder from their PC setup and from their v2 Sceptre, so zero dropped frames would eliminate the PC side being an issue. Yes, the most important thing is the bars scroll smoothly.

sfhub

12-13-05, 07:36 PM

Lo and Behold, I think I figured out the problem. Whenever I load up the Media Center UI, it appears to change the screen refresh rate back to 60Hz. Whenever I exit full-screen mode, the refresh rate goes back to 53.306Hz. That would certainly account for the poor video quality I was seeing for my recorded TV and DVDs played back through the MCE 2005 UI.

According to my searches, there appears to be a registry hack to get Media Center to stop doing this refresh rate adjustment. I'll post back once I get it working.

I don't use MCE, but a friend mentioned to me MCE will reset the refresh to 60Hz when going into fullscreen mode if the refresh is less than 85Hz. He mentioned the MCE Customizer addin allows you to adjust this behavior. Maybe that will simplify what ever changes you need to make to get MCE working to your satisfaction.
http://mcedev.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=2

kylef

12-14-05, 02:51 AM

I don't use MCE, but a friend mentioned to me MCE will reset the refresh to 60Hz when going into fullscreen mode if the refresh is less than 85Hz. He mentioned the MCE Customizer addin allows you to adjust this behavior. Maybe that will simplify what ever changes you need to make to get MCE working to your satisfaction.
http://mcedev.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=2

Actually, the fix I found just involves changing a registry key, but alas it had no effect on the video quality on the Sceptre, so I don't recommend it.

Anyone else running MCE 2005 with this set?

I believe the PureVideo MPEG2 decoder takes the NTSC TV signal, converts it to 60 Hz progressive first, and then the video driver converts the result back down to 53.306Hz under my setup. Something in that progression just doesn't work. Sports programs like basketball in particular look positively awful, with players stuttering up and down the court.

I hooked the PC up to my other monitors, both CRT and LCD, and the problem goes away. So far all fingers seem to point to the Sceptre as the culprit. Not good. I'll keep trying but my patience is wearing thin...

Harper

12-14-05, 10:57 AM

Since I last posted, I went ahead and got the Sceptre. Costco delivered it in a day... wow.

Anyway, I'm still in the process of getting it completely set up, but the first thing I did was connect it to my pc via the DVI/HDMI to try out some hi-def content. I had purchased the Ultimate Edition of T2 which has a "Mastered from 1080p source .." version on disc 2, so I used that as a test (via my dvd rom drive) and there are definitely issues. Having been aware of the issues mentioned on this thread, I soon took the next step of running the Judder Test program and sure enough, the test also showed judder at 60HZ. So, I lowered the refresh down to the 53.3xx sweet spot and the test ran fine... smooth, no tearing, juddering, etc.

With my new refresh rate I decided to try out some of those 1080p movie trailers on the Quicktime website. They looked great on other systems so I wanted to see the full blown 1080p on the Sceptre. Well... the judder was there, a lot in fact.

So... does anyone know if Quicktime overrides refresh rates? Should I be sticking to Microsoft's player, with the VC-1, which claims to be twice as fast as the H.264 ?

Harper

Polypro

12-14-05, 11:02 AM

What a night. I got home and had a Gigabyte 6600GT waiting on the porch. I tried sfhub's modified modeline settings with no luck, on the 6600. Then I installed the 6600GT and figured I'd input my old settings...wrong. "Out Of Range" for most settings...way different from the Vanilla 6600. I finally tried millbarge's setting and it worked, thanks bud. It's at 53.398Hz now...couldn't get .306 to work with this card. DVI (1:1) was way easier than VGA...gave up on VGA (overscan). Back to 95% again...the crowd in the background of a hockey game is the only time I notice any judder, the players are fine though. Also tried the debug mode "Memory Timing" setting with HDMI and HDCP, to try and get rid of the RGB artifacts over DVI...no joy.

P

Polypro

12-14-05, 11:08 AM

Harper,

I played "Amazon" 1080p from the MS download site, via SageTV using Full Screen Exclusive mode, and it was fine. Havn't tried any Quicktime stuff, other than dl.tv via iTunes.

P

donsev

12-14-05, 12:11 PM

I had purchased the Ultimate Edition of T2 which has a "Mastered from 1080p source .." version on disc 2, so I used that as a test (via my dvd rom drive) and there are definitely issues. Having been aware of the issues mentioned on this thread, I soon took the next step of running the Judder Test program and sure enough, the test also showed judder at 60HZ. So, I lowered the refresh down to the 53.3xx sweet spot and the test ran fine... smooth, no tearing, juddering, etc.

When you say the "test" ran fine (with the 53.3xx refresh rate), do you mean the JudderTest ran fine, or that T2 now played "issue"-less (or both)?

With my new refresh rate I decided to try out some of those 1080p movie trailers on the Quicktime website. They looked great on other systems so I wanted to see the full blown 1080p on the Sceptre. Well... the judder was there, a lot in fact.

I know this is probably obvious, but when folks state that "it played fine on this or that system" I always ask myself; do they mean on another comparable system(as in same CPU speed, same video card spec, same memory etc.) AND driving a 1920x1080 or greater display? Or do they mean "my desktop at work driving a 1024x768 display set to 16bit color"?

I am not suggesting that you haven't done an apple-to-apples comparison in this example, but it would be helpful if folks would clarify that their "baseline" comparison is against another 1920x1080 res, or greater, display.

Harper, is it possible that in your case the CPU is not capable of decoding the Quicktime codec rapidly enough to deliver 60fps at 1920x1080? I recall that the CPU requirements for decoding WMV9 is different than for Quicktime.

Harper

12-14-05, 12:46 PM

Sorry for not being more clear. I played several quicktime trailers in 720P on different PCs (one with an LCD and one with a CRT) and I thought the quality was really slick compared to trailers for other movies I had seen in the past. The systems mentioned above are not connected to a Sceptre. Watching those and noticing that Quicktime's website also had 1080p versions led me to want to watch them on the Sceptre... The Hi-def version of T2 didn't jump out at me, which is what led me to want to try the 1080p trailers. The back of the T2 box says "mastered from a 1080p ..." but I wasn't certain if that meant the version contained on the DVD was 1080p.

The "Test" I referred to was Judder Test. When I set my refresh rate via Powerstrip to 53.3xx, the JudderTest showed no anomalies. The green bars moved smoothly, no tearing, jittering, juddering, jitter-bugging, not even any tangos or mambos! :D

So, all excited, I downloaded the Quicktime 1080p trailer for King Kong ... there was juddering.

I'm not sure what the requirements are to run 60fps at 1080p. Not at home right now, but my system is like so:

AMD Athlon 3700+ San Diego
1 Gig Ram PC3200
Sapphire ATI Radeon X800 XL 128 Meg Ram
2x 160 GB HDs SATA RAID 0
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Value
Plextor DVD-RW SATA
Windows XP Professional x64

Harper

Edit: Motherboard is the DFI Lanparty 4 Ultra-D

Polypro

12-14-05, 01:21 PM

What Catalyst version are you using?

P

Edit: Here's why I ask. I used to drive a Viewsonic N2750W 720p display with a Radeon X800 Pro. SageTV. With the Catalyst 5.10 (and later?) drivers, I had very bad playback. When I went back to Catalyst 5.8, playback was fine. I use nVIDIA now, so I have no current info on ATI's newer drivers...5.8 worked for me though.

sfhub

12-14-05, 01:53 PM

Polypro

12-14-05, 02:03 PM

Synched fine, but had judder. Sorry 'bout that.

P

Harper

12-14-05, 02:07 PM

I'm using the latest 5.12 which came out this month. I know ATI has hardware accelerated WMV, which suggests I may be better off with the Microsoft player. Hopefully I'll have time today to do more testing. Was up in the attic last night routing speaker wires and the antenna cable. Wife wanted the new tv to .. well, to have tv. She was beginning to think I bought it just for me :o

So if the juddering ends up being in quicktime and not in the Microsoft player, may that suggest the problem is on the computer end (software or hardware)? And lowering the refresh lightens the load that the computer has to handle to pump out the 1080p .. ??

On the tuner end... once I got the antenna connected and was able to check out some HD ota channels, the image didn't really pop out at me. I think I still need to tweak a few things, but I had expected more.

And then... I came across one of those "odd" hardly watched channels (KCET I believe) with a documentary that looked GREAT! It was in 1080i and I said, "Now THAT is what I wanted to see!" So I know the TV can put out a great picture.

Harper

s2ktaxi

12-14-05, 02:08 PM

Observations:
1) the picture quality (in terms of blacks, contrast and overbrightness) is not up to snuff - the Sharp is noticeably better. Theatretek does not seem to make much difference in regular mode though the brightness and contrast adjustments in renderless mode seem to make some positive impact (thought still not as good as the Sharp)
2) the tearing and juddering is really not acceptable despite the good deal pricewise - despite the minor relief from the 53Hz settings

I'm running MCE with the V2 and have decided the following course of action:
1) live with it for now using WMP10 (instead of MCE or Theatretek).
2) wait till a better alternative and return it unless we get a fix from Sceptre beforehand.

jay_cee

12-14-05, 02:34 PM

s2ktaxi:

Can you elaborate a little more on the Sharp comparison. Do you have a sharp LCD for side-by-side comparison? What inputs/configuration are you comparing? Other people in this thread have stated that they find the picture quality between Sceptre and Sharp to be almost comparable (slight edge to sharp).

In my experience (ignoring the entire judder issue for now), I've found the picture quality to be quite good. Black levels aren't perfect (I've found this to be more of an issue OTA, less of an issue from my HTPC). And also the monitor is a bit on the bright side even when the lamp is turned all the way down. I was watching Arrested Developement in a dark room a couple of nights ago and the opening credits (lot of white background) left spots in my eyes!

adamyork

12-14-05, 02:55 PM

So, all excited, I downloaded the Quicktime 1080p trailer for King Kong ... there was juddering.

I'm not sure what the requirements are to run 60fps at 1080p. Not at home right now, but my system is like so:

AMD Athlon 3700+ San Diego
1 Gig Ram PC3200
Sapphire ATI Radeon X800 XL 128 Meg Ram
2x 160 GB HDs SATA RAID 0
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Value

Harper

Edit: Motherboard is the DFI Lanparty 4 Ultra-D

I can add nothing at all productive about the stuttering problems of the Sceptre, but HD Quicktime performance on windows is terrible, and there's a very good chance that the stuttering you witnessed in the King Kong trailer is the fault of Quicktime and not your monitor. If you go to Window --> Show Movie Info, a small window will pop up which will display the movie's playback FPS. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you were well below 20fps and that's why you were seeing stuttering.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled Sceptre thread.

kylef

12-14-05, 03:06 PM

The Hi-def version of T2 didn't jump out at me, which is what led me to want to try the 1080p trailers. The back of the T2 box says "mastered from a 1080p ..." but I wasn't certain if that meant the version contained on the DVD was 1080p.
It turns out that the T2 film transfer was actually not done at full 1920x1080 resolution. I can't remember the actual specs, but it's significantly less than that. Many of the other WMV-HD samples are better.

The "Test" I referred to was Judder Test. When I set my refresh rate via Powerstrip to 53.3xx, the JudderTest showed no anomalies. The green bars moved smoothly, no tearing, jittering, juddering, jitter-bugging, not even any tangos or mambos! :D

So, all excited, I downloaded the Quicktime 1080p trailer for King Kong ... there was juddering.
So one thing I have noticed is that almost every media player I've used so far (Media Player included) have an option for "Allow mode change at full screen". Whenever full screen mode is enabled, the refresh rate seems to switch.

I have gotten the 1080p clips to work on my system. Coral Reef Adventure, for instance, seems to work great after changing the refresh to 53Hz.

However, anything that goes through the PureVideo decoder (i.e., Mpeg2 content) shows judder issues. I haven't been able to fix those yet.

This is definitely frustrating, considering that all this effort is being done to work around what appears to be a bug in the TV.

donsev

12-14-05, 03:25 PM

This is definitely frustrating, considering that all this effort is being done to work around what appears to be a bug in the TV.

Amen to that. I am afraid to total the hours that I have spent trying to confirm and remediate this particular problem (and I don't even have the da*n set yet!). It would have been cheaper to have just bought it and thrown it away if it didn't work properly :rolleyes:

So just a shout out to those who have contacted Sceptre Tech Support on this issue - let us know if they have suggested anything that might be useful.

(Tiberium, how about pressing your contact at Sceptre?)

Also, can anyone suggest a way to confirm that the refresh rate issue does or doesn't exist when using outboard 1080p devices like the Lumagen? I know that sceptre-lcd states that it looks fine to him, but others haven't noticed the stuttering on their HTPCs until they actually tested with JudderTest.

While it may be possible to create a work-around with adjusting a video cards refresh rate, if the stutter exists with deviced locked to 60Hz this too me is a deal killer and probably sufficent to force a manufacturer recall of the set.

Eugene157

12-14-05, 03:26 PM

Does anybody have audio problems like a buzz in the background on Ver 2 ?
Thanks
Eugene

sfhub

12-14-05, 03:27 PM

Synched fine, but had judder. Sorry 'bout that.
So basically unless v2 Sceptre is publishing the wrong EDID info, that pretty much rules out EDID and off video timings as an issue.

So all fingers are pointing at v2 Sceptre being the issue and the issue (60Hz judder) being something only Sceptre can address. Everyone's tolerances are different, but personally I don't think changing to 53.xxx Hz refresh is an acceptable long-term workaround. Short-term yes, but not long-term.

sledge1234

12-14-05, 03:35 PM

When you say the "test" ran fine (with the 53.3xx refresh rate), do you mean the JudderTest ran fine, or that T2 now played "issue"-less (or both)?

I know this is probably obvious, but when folks state that "it played fine on this or that system" I always ask myself; do they mean on another comparable system(as in same CPU speed, same video card spec, same memory etc.) AND driving a 1920x1080 or greater display? Or do they mean "my desktop at work driving a 1024x768 display set to 16bit color"?

I am not suggesting that you haven't done an apple-to-apples comparison in this example, but it would be helpful if folks would clarify that their "baseline" comparison is against another 1920x1080 res, or greater, display.
Harper, is it possible that in your case the CPU is not capable of decoding the Quicktime codec rapidly enough to deliver 60fps at 1920x1080? I recall that the CPU requirements for decoding WMV9 is different than for Quicktime.
I personally compare Sceptre V1 and Sceptre V2 only.
Both were connected to the same PC with the exact same hardware/software.
V1 did not have any visible judder/chopines when fed 1080p, V2 does.
I never ran judder test on the V1 one (never needed to).

jpconard

12-14-05, 06:33 PM

Why doesn't Sceptre just go back to version 1? For most of you connecting to your PC, the ATSC tuner issues, audio issues, etc. are not really issues at all. Just get a inexpensive (can't mention prices here) Logitech Z-5500 audio system and be done with it.

sledge1234

12-14-05, 06:57 PM

I do. I can hear it on all inputs.
I had it on Ver. 1 as well. One of the main reasons to return it.
The buzz seems to be changing with brightness of the screen. The darker the picture on the screen the lower the buzz and vice versa.

Does anybody have audio problems like a buzz in the background on Ver 2 ?
Thanks
Eugene

jay_cee

12-14-05, 07:20 PM

I've got a very light buzz over the VGA. Not sure whether its from the speakers or the TV itself. Its not loud enough to really bother me, no worse than most electronic items I've owned.

s2ktaxi

12-14-05, 07:57 PM

I went through the trouble to actually buy both and put them side by side. I got the Sharp 37D7U for a good deal but ended up returning it because I think the strategy of going with the Sceptre from Costco is better.

My assessment is similar to yours. My summary:
Internal scaler: Sharp noticeably better for 480P and 720P content
Contrast: Sharp has a bit of an edge - but probably because it has better blacks
Brightness: normally not a consideration for LCDs but if it matters, the Sceptre is much brighter
Inputs: Sharp better because it has more inputs
Resolution: Sceptre wins hands down

The main reason I find the Sharp picture quality to be better is because of the blacks being blacker and the better scaler.

s2ktaxi:

Can you elaborate a little more on the Sharp comparison. Do you have a sharp LCD for side-by-side comparison? What inputs/configuration are you comparing? Other people in this thread have stated that they find the picture quality between Sceptre and Sharp to be almost comparable (slight edge to sharp).

In my experience (ignoring the entire judder issue for now), I've found the picture quality to be quite good. Black levels aren't perfect (I've found this to be more of an issue OTA, less of an issue from my HTPC). And also the monitor is a bit on the bright side even when the lamp is turned all the way down. I was watching Arrested Developement in a dark room a couple of nights ago and the opening credits (lot of white background) left spots in my eyes!

s2ktaxi

12-14-05, 08:00 PM

I never even connected mine :)
I do. I can hear it on all inputs.
I had it on Ver. 1 as well. One of the main reasons to return it.
The buzz seems to be changing with brightness of the screen. The darker the picture on the screen the lower the buzz and vice versa.

klas

12-14-05, 08:01 PM

Joe_R

12-14-05, 10:11 PM

Bump
Any other comments on this set? Looks like a viable alternative for my basement.

ShouldHaveWaited

12-14-05, 11:12 PM

Bump
Any other comments on this set? Looks like a viable alternative for my basement.

I have one last comment about this set:

It is a piece of sh*t and I cant wait till I return it! :D

kylef

12-15-05, 04:05 AM

Does anybody have audio problems like a buzz in the background on Ver 2 ?
Thanks
Eugene

Yes, I get this buzz from the audio out of the TV (ATSC tuner). It's not so noticeable at lower volumes, but when I turn up the volume the buzz is definitely there. I wasn't planning to use the ATSC tuner, however, so this isn't really a big issue for me.

The killer for me is the 60Hz PC refresh rate problem. Has anyone tried contacting Sceptre about it yet? If we get them to acknowledge that there is an issue, perhaps there will be a firmware upgrade that could address it, or release a Rev3 set... The main application I had envisioned for this set was its use as an HTPC monitor. So my primary scenario for use is crippled.

This thing has much potential. For instance, 1080i from the ATSC tuner looks great to fantastic... the deinterlacer is doing a very good job. Colors are vibrant, the contrast ratio is great, black levels are damn good too. But the ATSC tuner is just not a great way to watch this TV (running audio from the TV introduces buzz, and you have to put up an antenna, which to me is a time warp back into the 70s).

I'm assuming the 720p and 1080i look great from HDMI and component inputs too, but my HD Comcast DVR box won't arrive until a week from Friday. I don't know whether I'll keep the set until then.

Zoglog

12-15-05, 04:11 AM

Hey does anyone know if the Sceptre will work with the Xbox 360 Logitech Harmony Remote?

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/US/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=11250

Zoglog

12-15-05, 04:19 AM

It's a pity the V2's have so many problems when they should be improving =(. Is there any chance we can get firmware upgrades for the V1 if they ever fix up to V3?

BSteely

12-15-05, 08:09 AM

Hey does anyone know if the Sceptre will work with the Xbox 360 Logitech Harmony Remote?

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/US/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=11250

A Harmony Remote is a Harmony Remote, meaning they all work the same and differ only in features/buttons. I see no reason why the Harmony XBox remote wouldn't work with the Sceptre. I have an 880 working well. The trickiest part was getting the input switching to work.

YNOS

12-15-05, 11:33 AM

Sceptre v1 issues are really annoying and eventhough I had it for 4 month now I've been wanting to return it for v2 or get something else...

things I can't stand right now.

1. when my pc goes on standby and tv off I cannot turn it back on without pushing some buttons on remote or unplugging the dvi cable
2. it always resets to highest brightness settings when turned off.
3. speakers are horrible and I don't want to buy another ones
4. ugly stand and everything looks cheap about it
5. uneven backlightningYou should know by now if you've been following this thread that "upgrading" from V1 to V2 would be a mistake due to the problems it has displaying video. None of the other problems you listed were fixed on the V2 set, although I did notice the uneven backlighting was improved on my V2 set compared to my V1 set. This might have just been due to luck though.

Off-topic alert...
Since I've given up on the Sceptre, I've been shopping around and now have my eye on the 30" Apple Cinema HD display. 2560x1600 pixels of sheer bliss. They have refurbished units at a discount and they should work with an ATI X1800 XL card, which is far less expensive than the cards that were required a couple months ago. Dell is supposedly coming out with a comparable monitor (http://www.tech-report.net/onearticle.x/9109) this month too. Hmmm....

YNOS

12-15-05, 11:40 AM

... (Tiberium, how about pressing your contact at Sceptre?) ...I sent Tiberium a PM a few days ago asking if he knew if Sceptre was working on fixing the video problem with the V2 sets and have not heard back. I think he mentioned he bought a V2 set. I wonder if he still has it.

Harper

12-15-05, 12:02 PM

Sure enough, there was no judder while using MS Media Player 10 (with my refresh set to 53.3xx) though I did get it in Quicktime. Not sure if Quicktime resets the refresh... anyone?

I tested Media Player at 1080p with the WMV-HD files from MS... Amazon, Coral Reef, and Dolphins. No juddering, but I did notice some black speckles at random locations during play. Still trying to figure out how to access all the tweaks. I was able to get into the debug mode once, but I couldn't get in after that no matter how many times I tried pressing those Vol buttons simultaneously. :mad:

Harper

vivarey

12-15-05, 12:54 PM

Yes, I get this buzz from the audio out of the TV (ATSC tuner). It's not so noticeable at lower volumes, but when I turn up the volume the buzz is definitely there. I wasn't planning to use the ATSC tuner, however, so this isn't really a big issue for me.

I had a similar issue and was told this by Sceptre support:

"That is the static noise the 1080i tuner receiving through antenna it
shouldn't be that noticeable unless you have the volume on high. It is also
considered within spec."

HDNOW

12-15-05, 01:07 PM

Dear Customer,

When a solution is available, it will be made available to users that have emailed tech support with this problem. The engineers are still working on the problem.

Best Regards,
Sceptre Technical Support Group

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like they are aware of the problem, so just hang in there folks.... If you have the v2 unit and have not email them with the issue, please do so, so you'll get their notice if they find something.
I will keep my unit for now. I'll make my decision whether it is going back or not, once I heard from Sceptre.

sfhub

12-15-05, 02:04 PM

Since I've given up on the Sceptre, I've been shopping around and now have my eye on the 30" Apple Cinema HD display. 2560x1600 pixels of sheer bliss. They have refurbished units at a discount and they should work with an ATI X1800 XL card, which is far less expensive than the cards that were required a couple months ago. Dell is supposedly coming out with a comparable monitor (http://www.tech-report.net/onearticle.x/9109) this month too. Hmmm....
I thought ACD 30 would be a good display also, but then after reading more, I realized it isn't the best thing for my usage. If you are mainly web browsing and doing photoediting, it is great. If you are using for HTPC or gaming it will probably lead to more issues than you would at first think. First you need dual-link DVI (not to be confused with dual-dvi ports) which your X1800 has. Then your video decoders need to support deinterlacing and scaling to 2560x1600. You may be surprised to run into issues here. Next you need a pretty powerful adapter to play games at that resolution. Finally all the components you use like cables and video switchers need to be dual-link compatible.

I decided in the end, I'd have less issues with a 1920x1080 display, but maybe for your usage, 2560x1600 would be perfect.

YNOS

12-15-05, 02:39 PM

I thought ACD 30 would be a good display also, but then after reading more, I realized it isn't the best thing for my usage. If you are mainly web browsing and doing photoediting, it is great. If you are using for HTPC or gaming it will probably lead to more issues than you would at first think. First you need dual-link DVI (not to be confused with dual-dvi ports) which your X1800 has. Then your video decoders need to support deinterlacing and scaling to 2560x1600. You may be surprised to run into issues here. Next you need a pretty powerful adapter to play games at that resolution. Finally all the components you use like cables and video switchers need to be dual-link compatible.

I decided in the end, I'd have less issues with a 1920x1080 display, but maybe for your usage, 2560x1600 would be perfect.I discovered the same obstacles after I started researching it. I actually don't currently have an X1800 and unfortunately recently upgraded to an X800 that dosn't have dual-link. If I do make the switch, it will definitely cost more than the Sceptre, but I think it's worth it because I would have use for the extra resolution even though it's overkill for HD.

TauRus

12-15-05, 04:14 PM

... but maybe for your usage, 2560x1600 would be perfect.
Guys, just keep in mind that all video content (SD to HD) will have to be scaled to be displayed on this ACD monitor. So, forget about 1 to 1 feed. Again, you are looking at a possibility of having scaling artifacts. Are you sure your scaler is up to this task?

YNOS

12-15-05, 04:41 PM

I do worry that 1920x1080 material scaled to 2560x1600 might look lousy. I have no way to know for sure until I see it. I use TheaterTek and that seems to do a good job at scaling down, but I'm not sure about scaling up. For use with Windows, it would be a big advantage over the Sceptre - especially when editing/viewing large photos. I found a couple threads covering the 30" Apple display, but they've been quiet for a few months. I still may post a question there before I pull the trigger.

Polypro

12-15-05, 04:47 PM

Just sent a *Re*-confirmation email to Sceptre, thanks for posting that info.

P

Zoglog

12-15-05, 06:40 PM

A Harmony Remote is a Harmony Remote, meaning they all work the same and differ only in features/buttons. I see no reason why the Harmony XBox remote wouldn't work with the Sceptre. I have an 880 working well. The trickiest part was getting the input switching to work.

With Harmony remotes are you guys able to switch to another source with one button press? That's my biggest gripe with the Unit

YNOS

12-15-05, 07:55 PM

With Harmony remotes are you guys able to switch to another source with one button press? That's my biggest gripe with the UnitYou have to create a macro, which is assigned to a button. The macro can contain multiple commands. At least that's how it works on my Pronto.

BSteely

12-16-05, 01:29 AM

With Harmony remotes are you guys able to switch to another source with one button press? That's my biggest gripe with the Unit

Yes and no. Harmonys don't script per se but they have a unique "Activities" based programability that has a similar outcome. So for example if I select the activity "Watch TV", yes, the Harmony sets the proper input, which in my case is HDCP (output from a Comcast cable box). If I select the activity "Watch a DVD" then it switches the input to component which is how my DVD player is attached. So, yes, a Harmony remote can take care of all the input switching as required using its Activities based feature. Once you get the hang of it, it is pretty powerful.

DyeLooper

12-16-05, 02:39 AM

Just got mine today from CC
So far I am pretty happy, do have a few questions though.
Anyone have the remote codes for a Directv H10 HD Receiver for this tv?
How do I find which version tv this is?
I'm hooked up HDMI to HDMI, using the HDMI input get sound and video. I want to use the HDCP input, have video but no sound? Help?
Whats the "S" for when changing inputs? Mine is off, how to change it?

I will be using only with Directv and DVD, any more tips out there?

Thanks
DyeLooper

vik888

12-16-05, 04:13 AM

My set works great .. How do I tell what version it is?

1) DVD - - Using a Samsung DVD-HD850. 480P/720P/1080I, playing the first Lord of the Rings and the picture is great! I give it a 4.5/5. Looks better than anything they show on the 'demo loop' at Best Buy or Circuit City. (HDMI)

2) Cox Cable HDTV Box -- all the 1080I programming also looks simply amazing especially Discovery Theater HD via component (Ybr,etc)

3) PC - I have my Dell 600m laptop w/ a ATI Radeon 9000 64MB DDR SDRAM hooked up to the TV. When I playback WMV-HD, I do get some choppiness only 0.5% of the time and I found out that my PC is actually hitting over 90% cpu usage and causing this because when I view it on my PC, it does the same thing. I will run Judder and check if there is a problem, but I doubt it. (VGA-PC Connector)

I don't see any problems with this set. The picture looks simply amazing and looks better than the Westinghouse but I never had the Westinghouse setup at my house with my equip but saw it at a friend's house.

I give this TV set 9/10 .. worth every penny of the $$$ Costco charged for it.

EDIT>>

mod note: no price other than MSRP, please. Thanks.

vik888

12-16-05, 04:17 AM

Btw, what "code" do I need to use with my Cox cable remote to get it to emulate the Sceptre remote control? Sony's two codes 0000, 1100 seem to only control the power, not the volume.

eBear

12-16-05, 10:42 AM

On a related note, does anyone have the discrete codes (inputs, in particular) for the v2 sceptre?

sledge1234

12-16-05, 10:46 AM

On a related note, does anyone have the discrete codes (inputs, in particular) for the v2 sceptre?
Try Sony codes.

kylef

12-16-05, 12:41 PM

I will be using only with Directv and DVD, any more tips out there?
Yes, if you're running with a progressive-scan DVD player into the Sceptre's component input, you will notice blue horizontal "noise" lines in dark scenes.

There is a fix to eliminate these lines. On the set's controls, hold in both volume buttons simultaneously for an instant, and a "debug" menu will pop up. Push "1" on the remote control. This will show a "memory delay" slider. Adjust this slider until the blue artifacts go away. Mine went away at a memory delay of 3.

kkrull

12-16-05, 12:48 PM

Forgive my ignorance here, but if you run a HTPC with the Sceptre v2 display and use the workaround with powerstrip to run at 53Hz to get around the tearing, aren't you dropping frames?

In other words, if your source is 60 frames per second then your display misses some of the frames or if your source is 30 frames per second then some frames get displayed twice while other frames get displayed only once right? Is that why stepping down to 53Hz is a bad long term idea?

If so, the 720p 60Hz source is the one that really suffers right? Because if you have 24fps film source at 60Hz then you are already seeing some frames twice and some three times, which seems only marginally worse than seeing some frames once and others twice.

I understand that the tearing is worse than dropped frames.

kylef

12-16-05, 12:52 PM

3) PC - I have my Dell 600m laptop w/ a ATI Radeon 9000 64MB DDR SDRAM hooked up to the TV. When I playback WMV-HD, I do get some choppiness only 0.5% of the time and I found out that my PC is actually hitting over 90% cpu usage and causing this because when I view it on my PC, it does the same thing. I will run Judder and check if there is a problem, but I doubt it. (VGA-PC Connector)
That video card will be the limiting factor for 1080p playback. Its memory bandwidth is not up to the 10GB/s recommended minimum. You'll should be able to play back 720p content, however.

Regarding judder... if you can't see it, why bother checking for it? Once you learn it's there, you will be less satisfied. For me, it's beyond noticeable... recorded basketball games on ESPN on my Media Center PC are unwatchable. The players "skip" down the court like they're disappearing and reappearing elsewhere. Other sources don't show the judder so strongly.

technolawyer

12-16-05, 01:16 PM

kylef

12-16-05, 02:44 PM

Forgive my ignorance here, but if you run a HTPC with the Sceptre v2 display and use the workaround with powerstrip to run at 53Hz to get around the tearing, aren't you dropping frames?
Yes. The video driver will effectively "sample" the framebuffer 53 times per second and send that to the display. So if your source signal is 60 frames per second, you will lose roughly 7 frames per second. There may indeed be some "judder" as a result of these lost frames, particularly if the source you are displaying has true 60fps content. This is currently what I blame for why I can't watch NTSC video on my Sceptre through my HTPC without serious skipping, even after the 53Hz rate change.

...or if your source is 30 frames per second then some frames get displayed twice while other frames get displayed only once right? Is that why stepping down to 53Hz is a bad long term idea?
Upconverting video content for rendering on a higher-refresh display happens all the time, and the results are usually acceptable. For instance, when you run a CRT at 70Hz and display a source that has 60fps, you're doing the same kind of upconversion. 1 out of every 7 frames is repeated. Again, it shouldn't be noticeable under most conditions because the refreshes last for 1/70th of a second in that case. (Progressive-scan DVD players that perform reverse 3:2 pulldown digitally are doing the same thing: every other frame is "repeated" to yield a 60 fps image. This is known to introduce some judder-type distortion, but because the refresh is significantly higher than the source framerate, we don't notice it.)

The point is, when upconverting framerates you haven't lost any information. You have only introduced frames.

If so, the 720p 60Hz source is the one that really suffers right? Because if you have 24fps film source at 60Hz then you are already seeing some frames twice and some three times, which seems only marginally worse than seeing some frames once and others twice.
Exactly. Film content is pretty universally shot at 24fps (animation is frequently even lower, 12fps). When these films are transferred to digital media (MPEG-2 for DVDs or WMV-HD encoding), they are "upconverted" to a 60hz-friendly format. This is done by doubling every frame, and then adding a extra "tripled" frame at every other interval. For instance, a movie that went "ABCDEFG" would go through this process: ABCDEFG -> AABBCCDDEEFFGG -> AABBBCCDDDEEFFFGG. Even Imax movies would be transferred this way (i.e., to WMV-HD). So when the Sceptre discards 7/60 or roughly 11%, you'd see something like this (discard marked with asterisk): AABB*CCDDDEEFFF*G. The point is, you haven't lost any original movie frame in its entirety (A-G are all still present).

But for NTSC video (60 fields/sec) and all native HDTV content (60 frames or fields / sec), the signal may have motion at or near the 60 Hz rate, and dropping 7/60 frames *will* cause loss of content.

Anyway, this could explain why I see no problems watching DVDs or WMV-HD, but I can't watch live or recorded TV through my Media Center PC (which works fine hooked up to my 17" display). But I just don't know for sure...

kylef

12-16-05, 02:53 PM

The whole Judder thing has been getting me down lately. The posts on here make one think this set is a piece of junk (reference the post at the top of page 47).

I have had my set for about two weeks and accept for the presets for the DTV setting being a bit off color and contrastwise, the set has performed well.

Yesterday evening I hooked up my Dell 700m laptop for the first time via the VGA port (no DVI on the laptop). I set the Sceptre to 1080P and played a couple of Media Player 1080p files on version 9 and absolutely no judder and definately no tearing.
Don't let our Judder discussion get you down unless you are experiencing problems! If the Sceptre works well for your use, then just be happy!

The issue matters to me because I had planned to use this as a HTPC display, since HTPC is currently the only source capable of driving 1920x1080@60hz. So this judder issue happens to affect the display in its primary role for me.

Now that the blue streaking has been fixed from component inputs, I think it's a great TV, as far as I can tell. The 1080i deinterlacer seems to do a great job, and the colors seem to be very good. It just isn't a great PC display at this point.

Polypro

12-16-05, 03:55 PM

"Dear Customer,

We are aware of the DVI 1080p video problem for certain users and will place
you on a list for that particular problem..."

Encouraging news for sure.

P

V1 .vs V2 ID: V2 colors are a gunmetal gray with a black border around the LCD glass. There is a black, shiny insert on the front of the stand. There is a "Mystery Port" next to the HDMI port on V2 sets.

wallyllama

12-16-05, 05:28 PM

My set works great .. How do I tell what version it is?

I'm at work so I can't check the exact spot right now, but there is a menu option that will show hardware version, lib version, and a few other items.

Zoglog

12-16-05, 06:05 PM

Yes and no. Harmonys don't script per se but they have a unique "Activities" based programability that has a similar outcome. So for example if I select the activity "Watch TV", yes, the Harmony sets the proper input, which in my case is HDCP (output from a Comcast cable box). If I select the activity "Watch a DVD" then it switches the input to component which is how my DVD player is attached. So, yes, a Harmony remote can take care of all the input switching as required using its Activities based feature. Once you get the hang of it, it is pretty powerful.

cool! thanks I just got the remote in today. It might take awhile to tweak I can see but once you get all the functions down it'll be wow :D

DyeLooper

12-16-05, 06:39 PM

Kylef

Thank you for your response

DyeLooper

dpravat

12-16-05, 09:52 PM

When the TV is in DTV mode, the menu has a Setup entry and a subentry About.
In may case, system information shows:

H/W: R0.2
S/W: M4.10C
Loader: PMON 1.2.8.0
Lib: HAL 7.2.0.0 MW V1.21

Will this be enough to identify diferent S/W & H/W combinations ?

thanks,

Zoglog

12-17-05, 03:17 AM

Is it just me or is the Input switching slowwwwwwww. Seems weird to wait doing it with the harmony remote.

Does anyone have a weird problem with the activities where if you select one activity, The inputs won't switch correctly the 2nd time you goto that activity. Say instead of switching all the way to DVI it just goes to DTV and for anotehr activity instead of going to component it goes to just TV.

donsev

12-17-05, 09:30 AM

The whole Judder thing has been getting me down lately...
I have had my set for about two weeks and accept for the presets for the DTV setting being a bit off color and contrastwise, the set has performed well...

Don't let our Judder discussion get you down unless you are experiencing problems! If the Sceptre works well for your use, then just be happy!

The thing is, it is not quite as straightforward as this. If you do not ever plan on upgrading any of the equipment connected to your set, or ever playing media recorded at 60fps, then this could be a workable recommendation.

But, lets say the new PS3 happened to output 1080@60fps (for arguments sake), or you wanted to upgrade to an upconverting DVD player (which may or may not work with the Sceptre's 53Hz native freq.), or you wanted to buy a HD copy of SuperBowl XL that was recorded at 60fps, then you may very well be out of luck.

The point is that the X37SV-Naga is supposed to support 1080p@60Hz and it does not. This is a defect whether it affects you now or potentially in the future. That those using the set as a monitor (Sceptre is first and foremost a monitor manufacturer) can kludge a workaround by backing down the refresh rate to 53Hz is irrelevant.

Harper

12-17-05, 12:33 PM

Just when I was about to settle in with the Naga, it broke. Was watching HD OTA and all of a sudden a black line appeared in the middle of the screen. Looked like someone had nearly ripped the screen in two. Black line persisted across different inputs and even after turning it off then on again. Brought it to costco an hour later. :(

Harper

UncleV

12-18-05, 10:58 PM

I have V2 of Sceptre X37SV since last Thurs. I have a problem with the way my unit is centering the "zoom" aspect setting. When in zoom mode, the image is not centered vertically but rather shifted to the bottom. In other words, the bottom of the zoomed image is cropped out while the top (or most of it) remains on the screen.
Centered zoom mode is necessary for those 4:3 broadcasts of 16:9 letterboxed video if you know what I mean. If I ask Sceptre to "zoom" into such image, the sides expand to the physical edges of the screen as expected, the top black bar remains on the screen and the bottom of the actual image gets cut off accordingly. Does anyone experience the same behavior?

unclev.

bigsid05

12-19-05, 11:23 AM

I know exactly what you mean, the TV has no real zoom mode.

zima500

12-19-05, 02:24 PM

Ordered this monitor through costco this morning, hoping I get it by friday. Anyone know of the average time it takes costco to ship these? Should I expect the 7-10 business days info given at costco to hold true?

I'll post any issues (hope there isn't any tearing at 1080p) with the monitor. Upgrading from a 17" crt, and this monster of a pc display (won't watch much t.v. on it) is gonna kick some ass!

Veritas

12-19-05, 05:06 PM

zima500,
If you ordered via Internet , you should get a email order confirmation...and then you can view/track your order status on Costco's website - that shows est. arrival status and UPS(etc) tracking nbr.

good luck

ROBDP

12-19-05, 05:14 PM

Veritas

12-19-05, 05:19 PM

Anyone know the estimated/rated lamp life of this set...and its approximate replacement cost...and if it's user replaceable?

Polypro

12-19-05, 05:48 PM

60,000 Hours, but don't quote me...I'm away from home. That's ~7 years of 24/7 use.

P

sfhub

12-19-05, 06:10 PM

Just to clarify, the 60k hours is usually rated using Standard backlight levels but most folks run it significantly higher. I don't even know if Sceptre has adjustable backlight.

jay_cee

12-19-05, 06:14 PM

Just to clarify, the 60k hours is usually rated using Standard backlight levels but most folks run it significantly higher. I don't even know if Sceptre has adjustable backlight.

Actually, on this particular panel, most people run the backlight at its very lowest setting and still find the panel to be a little on the bright side. Someone in Sceptre engineering thought they were designing an indoor tanning booth....

wallyllama

12-19-05, 09:59 PM

Actually, on this particular panel, most people run the backlight at its very lowest setting and still find the panel to be a little on the bright side. Someone in Sceptre engineering thought they were designing an indoor tanning booth....

Actually I don't think it was for tanning, I think it is so that it is visible in sunlight, meaning you could use it in your car, for indash navigation, or watching video. Of, course you'll need to leave the sun roof open to mount it.

Falcore1

12-20-05, 08:34 AM

Need a little help--Please. Set up the Sceptre 37 two weeks ago, used the DTV and sub menu then auto scan, had 15 HD stations. Last night I tried to get into the DTV sub menu and could not! The sub menu icon is yellow, but when I press the center button I get a blue screen not the password input. I was trying to reset because ALL the HD stations on DTV are gone and I have "snow" and the message---TV CABLE 2. This is in the "user mode".

dmodemd

12-20-05, 10:12 AM

UncleV

12-20-05, 10:55 AM

Veritas

12-20-05, 11:28 AM

jay_cee

12-20-05, 12:05 PM

More on zoom mode:

Turns out that if I go to Menu>Extras>Settings>Format and choose 480p or 480i there, then the zoomed image IS centered vertically.

I also noticed that most of the HD broadcasts that are also upconverts from SD
are terribly overscanned with top and bottom clearly cut off by the TV. The image aspect ratio looks more 14:9 rather than 4:3. I can see that cut-off top part of the image in Zoom-with-subtitles mode and 1080i format.

That's interesting - I had also noticed that a lot of my digital TV was overscanned (at first I just thought it was weird that the very top of everyone's head was getting cut off - what kind of director would frame a shot like that? ;-). TV operation is fairly secondary for me, so I haven't stressed over it very much.

TauRus

12-20-05, 12:08 PM

Polypro & sfhub,
Thanks for the info - 60,000 is very good! Any idea about lamp replacement cost and if that can be done by users? (I know 60,00 hours is a looong time; but sometimes these lamps can/do blow "prematurely"...
CCFLs in most commercially available LCD panels are not user replaceable. I assume you are not confusing CCFLs in flat panel LCD displays with the lamps/bulbs in Rear Projection LCD/DLP/LCOS TVs.

98silverbullet

12-20-05, 12:28 PM

I recently bought a Sceptre at costco took exactly 7 days. I just hooked it up to the antenna on top of the house, the PS2 and the VCR and away we went. How do I find out if the antenna on top of the house is HDTV compatible. I'm not sure if it is or not it was on there when we moved in a couple of years ago.

Also, how can I sent up the screen for best looking picture. Is there such thing as a calibration DVD where you can set settings so bascially it will look the same to your eye on every set?

Thanks

Harper

12-20-05, 12:52 PM

98silverbullet,

From what I read across various topics on this forum, any antenna will receive HDTV. We've had the same antenna on our house for 20+ years and we get HDTV. You may want to look around this forum for more information or convincing.

Consequently, there is also an area on calibration :) I've read about a few that are on DVD and VHS (Digital Video Essentials.. ?). Cnet also has some articles about calibrating tvs. A debug mode has been found for this LCD but no one has posted a complete key to all the commands yet. I had a hard time getting into it at all.

Harper

Harper

12-20-05, 12:56 PM

Falcore1,

Were you set to the DTV input before hitting the menu button? You'll get different options (ie a different menu) according to the current input selected.

Harper

jowook

12-20-05, 01:07 PM

Does Costco offer an extended warranty on TVs? What is dead pixel policy of Costco? I'm very intersted in purchasing a Sceptre 37" Thanks in advance

Polypro

12-20-05, 01:18 PM

...A debug mode has been found for this LCD but no one has posted a complete key to all the commands yet.

Harper

Basically, numbers 1-4 and 6-9 give you debug options. Other than the "Memory Timing" which is english :) they are things like "DBD9" and "DADB" I ran them up and down the HEX codes and didn't notice anything dramatic. The 100+ button turned the screen bright green...power off/on reset it.

P

Veritas

12-20-05, 05:12 PM

TauRus,
Thanks much for your reply, but no, I was not confusing the LCD CCFLs FP lamps with those of various rear projection sets(but many of thoses rear projection LCD, DLP, LCOS/etc TV owners are going to be quite surprised when their lamps fails at ~5000 hrs - at ~$300.00 a pop). I'm aware of the dif lamp technologies employed for each platform.

I just wanted to obtain replacement lamp costs, and find out if users can do it themselves. So, it appears, these units must be returned to factory for lamp upgrades...or just toss the display away after lamp fails?

Granted if lamp does last the full 60,000 hrs, (7yrs x 24hrs a day), or even an elapsed life of 2 to 5 times longer - depending on usage & on/off cycles, it would actually be outdated and no longer useful product by then. But what the lamp fails, out of warranty, at ~5,000 hours in just a couple of years? I assume we have to send to factory for replacement? That's my real question.

bigsid05

12-20-05, 05:59 PM

Does Costco offer an extended warranty on TVs? What is dead pixel policy of Costco? I'm very intersted in purchasing a Sceptre 37" Thanks in advance

Pretty sure you can return it at any time for any reason, so you don't have to worry about that.

Harper

12-21-05, 11:08 AM

Not sure if this has been covered or not, tried a search and didnt see anything... I just got my 2nd Sceptre yesterday after returning the first, and noticed that most "HD" channels were not filling the entire viewing space. However, once prime time showing came on (insert your favorite 8pm show here), it DID fill the screen for that show, but commercials would be in that smaller box. I'm thinking this has something to do with 480i broadcasts versus 1080i and 720p, but ... I thought that with my first x37SV, the picture was maximized regardless of the signal... Honestly, I could be remembering incorrectly and was hoping someone here could comment on their experience.

I'm using OTA on the ATSC tuner, format set to 1080i, and aspect is on 16:9.

Harper

ROBDP

12-21-05, 11:13 AM

bigsid05

12-21-05, 12:00 PM

bigsid05

12-21-05, 12:03 PM

I received my Sceptre yesterday. Didn't have a chance to really mess with it yet, but if anyone can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.
1. When I turned it on, it displayed the message “Weak Signal”. Do I need an antenna to receive HDTV signals? Which one?
2. The quality of regular TV signal via the NTSC tuner looked grainy (not what I expected)
3. Connected the PC to the LCD via the included DVI/HDMI cable, the signal looked good but I cannot set it to 1920 x 1080 resolution. Would Powerstrip take care of this?
4. The PC has a tuner card (Radeon AIW), thus I wanted to see the signal via this card instead of the NTSC tuner. However, when I dragged the window to the Sceptre, the TV window turned black

The manual is lousy, and since this is my first HDTV, I appreciate all the help I can get.

1. Depending on where you live an indoor antenna, like the Zenith Silver Sensor, may be fine.
2. 480i upscaled for a 1080p monitor is never going to look very good
3. You need to get additional resolutions in the display settings I'm guessing. Pretty sure PowerStrip WILL fix this but you may also want to install the driver for the display (which you can obtain from Sceptre's website). Most new video cards should not have a problem displaying 1920x1080.
4. You need to set the Sceptre as your primary monitor. Video overlay only works on 1 monitor or the other.

Harper

12-21-05, 12:14 PM

ROBDP,

I'm not really an expert but I'll share what I've learned from this forum and from my own experience.

1) Connect your house antenna coax to the ATSC input if you want over-the-air channels. If you're using a set-top-box, I assume you'd connect either HDMI or Component or whatever else it uses. For me, I use the house antenna. Once I connected it, I had to do a channel scan. That should be enough to get you going with OTA HD.

2) From what I understand, a TV with a high fixed resolution will make low resolution images look grainy/pixelated. Tubes dont have a fixed res, so ntsc signals look decent... probably better than they do on an LCD. Personally, I stick to the ATSC tuner only as every local channel has an HD equivalent, even if they arent always broadcasting in HD (though they are apprently telling my tv they are.. ie the 1080i or 720p shown in the info box)

3) I also have mine connected to the PC. I didnt have any trouble setting the resolution via the display control on the computer. If you don't have a little shortcut button, go through the Control Panel into Display Properties or whatever and change the resolution from there. I use an ATI card and have a profile setup for the Sceptre and for my 19" CRT Monitor, so I can switch between the two and it has the resolution different for each. If you are unable to set 1920 x 1080 in your Display Properties, your video card probably can't do that resolution, or you need new drivers. Remember to set the tv's input to DVI.

4) Can't really help here... don't have a tuner card. I use the ATSC on the Sceptre.

Hope that helps!

Harper

Harper

12-21-05, 12:22 PM

Bigsid05,

Is that just for the ATSC tuner?

Harper

98silverbullet

12-21-05, 12:35 PM

Harper,

Thanks for your help - I went home last night and was able to verify that I don't need another home antenna for HDTV - My 15 year old antenna worked just fine. I had a little help from antennaweb.org. The stations I was trying to get I manually punched in the coressponding channel numbers and the TV recognized the frequency and brought the station in. To my surprise also got a WB station I never new existed because it was only in digital.

I also noted that a 480 signal brought in with the HD tuner is clearer than with the normal TV tuner. Since all my local stations have HD I will only use the HD tuner (just have the 4:3 format).

I also found out yesterday that I can not get Dish network or Direct TV. Both don't have a line of sight because of the neighbors big trees to the south and west. Bummer.

Thanks for the help - This forum is great - I almost spent $300 having another antenna installed when I didn't even need one.

hidenesha

12-21-05, 01:05 PM

jay_cee

12-21-05, 01:15 PM

The dishnetwork HD Receiver has a DVI output? DVI is video only; it doesn't support sound. If your source is DVI, then it likely has seperate audio outputs.

ROBDP

12-21-05, 02:46 PM

bigsid05:

Thank you. I will venture to my local Radioshack to find the antenna tonight. The video card is capable of displaying more than 1920 x 1080 resolution, but not the same exact combination (unfortunately). I also thought I used it as the promary monitor, but I could be wrong. I will try it again and will let you know. Thank you for for time.

ROBDP

12-21-05, 03:00 PM

garcher

12-21-05, 03:20 PM

Harper:

Thank you for the info. I connected the coax cable (the cable used to go directly to my other TV, with no set-top-box) to the ATSC tuner, then scanned the channels but received no signal still.
And will download the driver from Sceptre and hopefully that would do it.

Thank You Much,
Robdp:
The Scepter ATSC tuner does not support QAM. This means that it will not be able to decode any HD signles that the cable company sends over their cable. You'll either need to use an external antenna or upgrade to an HD cable box and HD service from Cox. Check antennaweb (dot) org to see what you can receive in your location.

Harper

12-21-05, 04:24 PM

ROBDP,

When you went into the Auto Scan Menu, did you tag the AIR option at the top?

Harper

ROBDP

12-21-05, 04:46 PM

ROBDP,

When you went into the Auto Scan Menu, did you tag the AIR option at the top?

Harper

Yes I did both the AIR and Cable STD options - with no luck. :(

Harper

12-21-05, 04:59 PM

Well any rooftop antenna connected to the ATSC should be able to get you SOME channels unless you're just too far from the stations / something is blocking the reception / the antenna is directional and facing the wrong way. I suppose it's always possible that your ATSC tuner is broken :eek: But I wouldn't think that until all over options have been explored.

I don't think the Sceptre driver will fix anything assuming you're just using the plug-n-play monitor driver now. That's all I use and can get the 1920x1080. It's all in the video card and the driver for it.

Harper

Brian_R170

12-21-05, 06:15 PM

I received my Sceptre yesterday. Didn't have a chance to really mess with it yet, but if anyone can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

3. Connected the PC to the LCD via the included DVI/HDMI cable, the signal looked good but I cannot set it to 1920 x 1080 resolution. Would Powerstrip take care of this?
4. The PC has a tuner card (Radeon AIW), thus I wanted to see the signal via this card instead of the NTSC tuner. However, when I dragged the window to the Sceptre, the TV window turned black

The manual is lousy, and since this is my first HDTV, I appreciate all the help I can get.

Sounds like you have dual monitors with the Sceptre as the secondary monitor. Making the Sceptre the primary monitor should cure both 3 and 4 above.

ROBDP

12-22-05, 08:45 AM

As you all recommended, I purchased an HD antenna from RadioShack (the only one that they have), and was able to get 22 channels over the air. I must admit the quality is excellent. Plugging in the Xbox360 (via component) and set it at 720p yields awesome gaming experience (should I set it at 720p or 1080i? The quality looks virtually identical to me). In addition, the sound from the spectre’s speakers is not as bad. I put it in wide surround sound and it is decent (no home theatre but will do).
On the negative side…I discovered 1 dead pixel on the screen. Now the question is should I exchange to a new one just because of 1 dead pixel? Personally, I do not think that it is that bad (consider how I may receive another unit with more than 1 dead pixels).

Tonight, I will reattempt to connect it to the computer as the primary monitor. The last thing (for now) would be to determine how am I going to get the regular cable channel (via Comcast) to improve the quality, any thoughts?

Thank You All,

kylef

12-22-05, 09:12 PM

Any luck with Sceptre regarding the judder problems yet?

What is their email address? I wouldn't mind sending them an email myself.

plasmatornado

12-23-05, 12:24 AM

Any luck with Sceptre regarding the judder problems yet?

What is their email address? I wouldn't mind sending them an email myself.

agreed, i think a bunch of us who have not sent an email yet.....should, this may help spur them into more action, knowing that there is a constant stream of complaints. maybe it might push them to make a revision 3 ......

at this point, ive just relegated myself to enjoying the other working aspects of the TV and will wait till there is a rev 3 or a working fix. since costco has my back

but just like all the others, i cant wait till they fix this! i want a perfect working sceptre

Polypro

12-23-05, 12:27 AM

monitor-ts@sceptre.com

The email I received leads me to believe they acknowledge the problem, are working on it, and will notify owners when there is a fix available.

P

plschwartz

12-23-05, 10:40 AM

The email I received leads me to believe they acknowledge the problem, are working on it, and will notify owners when there is a fix available.

P
I have been holding off getting one as a family Xmas present.
My question is if it can be fixed without a hardware change. One suggestion above was that it was due to a transformer problem changing from Chinese standards which are 50~.
Is it likely that the fix can just be in firmware or will an actual component change likely be needed?

regedit

12-23-05, 02:00 PM

I know this is very basic but not getting any sound when I use the HDMI/DVI cable. I'm just using the sceptre's speakers and a Dishnetwork Hidefinition receiver model 811. I get sound when using the component cables with red/white audio cables. Shouldn't I automatically get sound using the HDMI/DVI cable or do I need to hook up another audio cable or change any sound settings?
Thanx
Steve

Since you are using the DVI output on the 811 to the HDMI in on the Sceptre you will have to do a few things to get sound.

1. Set the Sceptre to DVI input (no sound if set to HDMI)
2. Find the Audio outputs on Video 2 from the 811 and use a cable that is an RCA Phono to Stereo mini-pin. (couldn't believe I had one at the house :D )
3. Connect 811 output to Sceptre's PC Audio input.

Dish broadcasts their HD at 1080i but you will have to pay $9.99/mo for 6 - 8 HD channels. :mad:

Good luck to you,
REGEDIT

sunsax

12-23-05, 10:11 PM

I'm a newb, so bear with me if this is a simple question. I get an image using the HDMI interface between the Sceptre and my Samsung HD850, but no sound through the Sceptre's speakers. This is true regardless of how I set the three options in the "Audio" menu of the 850's setup menu (PCM/Bitstream, Dynamic Compression on/off, PCM downsampling on/off). Any suggestions?

TomasoTester

12-23-05, 10:56 PM

I just posted not a review or judder problem, but a strange color problem here . I'm not allowed to post URLs yet, but the post ID is 621187 (in this subcategory of the forums.)

Polypro

12-23-05, 11:45 PM

I have been holding off getting one as a family Xmas present.
My question is if it can be fixed without a hardware change. One suggestion above was that it was due to a transformer problem changing from Chinese standards which are 50~.
Is it likely that the fix can just be in firmware or will an actual component change likely be needed?

No clue...but I have faith:) I'm still happy with the set. Even with the problems, it's a 37" 1080p LCD for ~$1500. The problems are greatest for HTPC'ers, but the work around with Powerstrip is acceptable (Until Sceptre comes up with a fix) to me. If your running SD into the NTSC input, HD into the ATSC input, and hooking up a DVD player...The only "problem" you'd have would be the lamp resetting on power off. I fixed that with a Harmony remote and some extra commands. The Black Level is good to my untrained eyes, so the Black Level setting not working doesn't bother me. Look at how you want to use the set and see how many of the problems affect you. Go Costco and you can take it back...whenever...if you don't like it.

P

Harper

12-24-05, 12:25 PM

Just wanted to add that judder also occurs when running games at 1920x1080 on the computer via the dvi->connection. It happens when a lot of things are moving on the screen / the screen is changing rapidly. I was playing Civ IV and whenever I scroll the map or during the intro, judder occurs. Kinda sucks since the other resolutions just don't look as sharp.

Have a nice Christmas everyone! :D

Harper

s2ktaxi

12-24-05, 12:42 PM

Turns out the Powerstrip workaround is not fullproof - there are some situations where some apps override the Powerstrip settings. For example, watching MCE upscaled SD content causes major judder when PS is set at 53.3xxHz but not when set at 60Hz - go figure :)

BSteely

12-25-05, 04:19 AM

Has anyone opened up a second gen Sceptre and looked to see what scaler chip is inside? I'd be curious to know if it is an MStar since I have seen a juddering problem on a computer monitor that sounds similar. The computer monitor had a MorningStar scaler chip.

Chchin

12-26-05, 11:49 PM

I have been glancing through the forum here, and maybe I missed it, but I wanted to ask about the basic TV watching aspect of the Sceptre. For those that have HD cable (IE Time Warner, Cox, etc) does it play well on the Sceptre? How do sports look? What are the pluses and minuses, and if any can, what are some comparisons. Thanks

smallwheels

12-27-05, 01:13 AM

I have just placed an order with Costco for the X37; I'm planning on using it as a TV for OTA broadcasts, and for movies from the computer and DVDs. I don't have a computer to dedicate to running the X37.

I have spent a l o n g time reading this thread. I'd like to summarize what I have learned, in case I have missed something; perhaps this will also benefit those who can't read through all 49 pages of replies!

(0) The monitor is very good, especially for the price.
(1) The built-in Speakers are very poor. (No big deal; I expected them to be, and was planning on using my audio system for sound.)
(2) The audio line out is noisy too. This is more of a problem ...
(3) The headphone mini-jack seems to be OK. Odd that this would bypass the poor quality internal amplifier, when (2) does not.
(4) There is an optical digital audio output on the internal ATSC tuner, which provides good audio, but one has to open the case to get to it, and then drill a hole to get the cable out.
(5) The ATSC tuner appears to produce a 720p signal even from a 1024i OTA broadcast.

I was originally planning on getting the Westinghouse monitor, which would have meant using an external ATSC tuner. I'm wondering if, given (1) through (5) above, this might be the best approach with the X37 also: just ignore the internal tuner, and buy an external tuner. I need to upgrade my stereo system anyway ... or maybe I should just get a new receiver with optical audio inputs and use the optical output from the built-in tuner. What do you folks recommend?

I have a JVC XV-N3SL DVD player with component (Y/Pb/Pr) video out, but no DVI out. Is this unit adequate to get the best out of a DVD, or is it time to upgrade?

I plan to mount the X37 over the fireplace in the family room, so I need a wall mount that is a flush as possible. I think that I can make my own, if necessary, but would like to know if anyone has found a commercial mount that fits the 440 mm horizontal spacing of the mounting holes.

I have a VHF/UHF antenna in the attic, which has never worked too well with NTSC --- I think that the cable run is too long, even with an amplifier in the attic. However, the HDTV transmitters are only 6 miles away, and I'm hoping to get a much better digital signal than I have analog. From what I've read, this same antenna might just work, so I should try it before getting an HDTV-specific antenna. Is that correct?

Polypro

12-27-05, 04:30 AM

(4) There is an optical digital audio output on the internal ATSC tuner, which provides good audio, but one has to open the case to get to it, and then drill a hole to get the cable out.
(5) The ATSC tuner appears to produce a 720p signal even from a 1024i OTA broadcast.

4 - v1 has it, v2 doesn't

5 - v1 did that (but Sceptre said it was a bug in the OSD only) v2 doesn't.

P

zefres

12-27-05, 12:08 PM

Tried an older Samsung OTA box today with DVI and I have some bad news...the jump and jitter is still there even with 1080i/720p over DVI. To me this is the deal breaker. I was able to tweak the computer to make the problem "not so noticable", but if it can't take a straight DVI 1080i/720p connection then it can't stay.

I hope they can get there act together and fix this problem, but I can't wait for that day any longer.

Another tyhing I noticed that made me mad was the lack of color adjustment on the component/HDMI inputs. This pucture is great, but the color is unatural and I can't change it.

ROBDP

12-27-05, 03:06 PM

Although this may not be the right forum, but perhaps you can help me...
I bought the sceptre and am very happy with the purchase. Unfortunately with the RadioShack antenna that I have, OTA HD signals are weak. I was looking into purchasing a better antenna, and was told that the Terk TV-55 is really good. I also saw that Terk has another model (Terk HDTVo) that may be good as well.

I guess I am looking for a cheap ($50 to $75) antenna that can give me the best OTA HD. Your input is greatly appreciated. :)

unklegwar

12-27-05, 04:25 PM

unklegwar

12-27-05, 04:27 PM

ROBDP

12-28-05, 09:47 AM

Don't get those cheapo radioshack/terk antennas.

Go to antennasdirect (google for it i can't post URLs for whatever reason) for good quality antennas that can pull in a signal for low $$$. If you are close to the tower, try the DB2 or DB4.

Thank you for the info. I will probably go with the DB-2 (just in case I want to mount it in-door) since most signals (yellow, green, read, and blue UHF) are less than 25 miles away from my house.

ROBDP

12-28-05, 09:50 AM

So, without swimming thru 50 pages of posts...what's the consensus on using this for TV? I wanna slap this on the wall of my bedroom, and wire up the audio via a small surround system.

Also, a post said the Optical Digital out is changed on the V2. Is it gone, or is it now exposed for easier access?

How does one tell V1 from V2 when purchasing? I'm eyeing this up at Costco for $$$. Yummay!

Thanks

EDIT>>

mod note: no price other than MSRP, please. Thanks

For the quality and the price, I couldn't be happier. Also, the sound is not bad at all, or may be because I have the v2 (you can tell by that extra unknown port near the HDMI port). It's a sure buy.

Good Luck,

silicon

12-28-05, 10:57 AM

So, without swimming thru 50 pages of posts...what's the consensus on using this for TV? I wanna slap this on the wall of my bedroom, and wire up the audio via a small surround system.

Also, a post said the Optical Digital out is changed on the V2. Is it gone, or is it now exposed for easier access?

How does one tell V1 from V2 when purchasing? I'm eyeing this up at Costco for $$$. Yummay!

Thanks

EDIT>>

mod note: no price other than MSRP, please. Thanks

I did review few pages, looked fine for me and placed an order with Coscto, it is on the way. It is left to you!

pgadget

12-28-05, 02:11 PM

I've had my new Sceptre now for about a week. In several ways it is an impressive set for the money. However, there are three problems that may cause me to sent it back.
1) HDMI hang with DirecTV TiVo HD PVR. This has been reported on several TiVo forums, but I have yet to see a resolution. When connected to the TiVo using the TiVo supplied HDMI to HDMI cable the TiVo box will hang some time after the Sceptre is turned off. Turn the TV off, wait some time, turn the TV back on, no HDMI signal. Note that during the time the TV is off, the TiVo has not recorded any programs. Only way to reset is to turn the TiVo power off then on again. Had to use component video because of this.
2) Contrast. Not just the normal black level complaint, but any dark color ends up displayed as black. For example dark suits just look black with no detail at all. One can see some details by turning the brightness up real high, but this display is bright enough without this. All of the standard color settings "Sports", Cinema"... exhibit this problem.
3) Cannot use the zoom function to successfully display standard resolution letterboxed tv shows. Zoom puts the image too low on the screen. This was reported a couple of pages ago on this forum. This may be a function of component video connection. Don't remember seeing it before I gave up on HDMI.
Would appreciate comments and suggestions.
thanks

zima500

12-28-05, 10:05 PM

My sceptre should arrive tomorrow morning, I'll post my review later in the day or the next. Will be running mainly Pc games, and will analyze all resolutions with a select number of games.

Off-Topic; how exactly do you pronounce Sceptre? Is it ( scep-tra ) or ( scep-ter)

zima500

12-29-05, 12:20 AM

Found out it is pronounced scep-ter. Anyway, one thing that is bugging me is the info ive read about jittering and tearing occurring with the 20.1 inch widescreen sceptre LCDs sold at many retailers. There has been many reviews over at a few PC forums that describe tearing occurring when playing pc games. If a large number of sceptere monitors are faulted I'm getting quite worried about the cash I slapped down for this LCD, which appears that sceptre has gone "cheap" on their consumers and used low quality parts. Hopefully they resolve the issue sooner than later...

s2ktaxi

12-29-05, 02:39 AM

A possible juddering solution?
http://www.theatertek.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8296

delportd

12-29-05, 09:41 AM

I got my Costco coupon book the other day (not 30 minutes after I ordered the naga37) and, lo and behold, they're including a coupon for a Sceptre 42 inch LCD. There's a picture (no speakers on the side, all black save for what looks like a little silver stand), and the following description:

1920x1080 resolution, built-in ATSC & NTSC tuners and HDMI input.

The item number listed is 964244 but I've been unable to find anything on either the costco or the sceptre sites. [EDIT]

EDIT>>

no coupon talk, please. Thanks

Harper

12-29-05, 10:38 AM

reio-ta,

It is highly likely that Sceptre would only want to replace (if necessary) as few TVs as possible. I'm not really sure if this is something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. I suspect the hardware they put in is the problem, but only at 1920x1080P. I believe so far we've only tested it via the HDMI/DVI port (heck, is that the only port the tv says it can do 1080P?) so the problem could be the port. It may also be the scaler (maybe. I'm no expert). It may be that the tv can't handle a 1080P signal coming in, which I believe is what our PCs are sending it (again, no expert here, but I know I set the res to 1920x1080 and I thought PCs were always progressive.. could be wrong though.. someone correct me).

Most likely, the majority of customers have not even tried 1920x1080 and some who have, may write off the judder as a poor video card. Heck, I don't think I would have even found the problem if I hadn't been snooping around AVS. Now ... eventually I would have gotten a separate DVD player or upscaling receiver/processor, in perhaps a year or two from now, that will send a 1080P signal and reveal the judder (assuming it DOES happen with a non-PC), but by then, who knows if I would be able to exchange the unit, or if I would be able to find the same information.

I think it's good advice for anyone who is thinking of sticking with this TV to send the email to tech support to "get on the list." By all means, please verify for yourself that you have the juddering and explain it to them, that way, there is a better chance they will do something. I am skeptical. I'm not 100% convinced yet that they will.

Harper

jay_cee

12-29-05, 10:51 AM

Harper:

I can personally attest that the problem exists on the VGA port. And a few posts above you someone reports that it exists over DVI at 720p and 1080i as well. I would like to see an official list (preferably from Sceptre) as to what configurations have this problem. But it looks to me likes its a problem with all external sources which is probably a deal killer for me.

Hopefully they tested this new 42" model a bit more carefully. Maybe that will be my replacement...

-J

Harper

12-29-05, 10:56 AM

pgadget,

In some of the other threads in the audio area, there is a lot of talk about set top boxes and hdmi handshaking causing problems. I don't know if that pertains to your case particularly since that area was more about a stb -> receiver connection, but it is worth knowing that there ARE issues with stbs and hdmi handshaking.

Contrast and black levels have always been the weaker attributes of LCDs. I think people have different tastes and maybe even see things differently. Two people could probably look at the same tv and one person would say the image is sharp and another would think it's not so sharp. I've gone through a lot of threads where some people applaud the black levels of a unit and some criticize it. It drives you nuts when trying to decide on a tv to buy! :confused:

I havent had my naga long, but I've watched about half of T2, and it looked pretty good. It doesn't look as good as a 1080i signal OTA on KOCE, but that is because dvds are only 480i. I thought the black levels and contrast were fine. However, when playing Xbox with crummy Gauntlet: Dark Legacy, it's hard to see the path to take while in a darkened area. My CRTs were the same way whenever I had glare. I happen to think the red to pushed a bit. I didnt really notice anything until I loaded up DOA Volleyball and the red bathing suits were virtually GLOWING.

You're right about the zoom though. That isnt a feature I really intend to use, but when I first had the set hooked up to the antenna I was only getting standard tv that didnt fill the screen so I wanted to adjust it. The bottom was cut off. However, after asking tech support and hearing from users here, I understand that day time programming and commercials aren't "supposed" to fill the screen. Prime time TV in HD always does. So now I just accept it and prefer to keep the proper size of the picture and thus have a better quality image than if the TV had to enlarge it or stretch the sides.

Do tv programs really come in letterbox?

Harper

Harper

12-29-05, 11:09 AM

I thought I watched a movie trailer in 720P and don't recall getting the judder.. but I'm not 100% positive. I'll give that a try when I get home today. My upscaling DVD player is also supposed to arrive today and it has DVI out so I should be able to test further over the next few days.

Hopefully someone else will try 720P from their PC over DVI. If this is the case, I'll definitely be sending another email to Sceptre. :D

Harper

Edit: jay_cee, I'm not sure if the ATSC tuner is included in "all external sources" but I have watched OTA HD in 720P and 1080i and have not seen judder on either. I also do not see judder running Xbox through the component input.

zima500

12-29-05, 11:18 AM

YES! I received the monitor, but I am confused of how to connect to my PC via DVI. It only has an HDMI output i believe, so I was supposed to purchase a hdmi-dvi converter right? DAMNIT!

Anyone know where I could purchase one?

Testing for Juddering in 2 min.

water1

12-29-05, 11:23 AM

Anyone know where I could purchase one?

Click on the MonoPrice.com button in the Alliance Member box at the top of the page.

Harper

12-29-05, 11:30 AM

Wasn't there one with the tv? :confused:

Harper

ROBDP

12-29-05, 11:31 AM

zima500

12-29-05, 11:49 AM

ROBDP

12-29-05, 12:02 PM

I re-checked the cardboard box that came in side the packaging and no hdmi-dvi cable. All that I found inside the box was composite, component, and vga cables with the speaker wires. Checked all around the house and nothing, didn't drop it or misplace it. Should I email or call sceptre?

O and where did you guys find your hdmi cable? Was it with the other cables in the little cardboard box?

I got all of the cables that you mentioned, plus the DVI-to-HDMI cable (which I use to connect the sceptre to my computer). Yes, they all came in the little 8 x 6 x 4 cardboard box.

zima500

12-29-05, 12:02 PM

Just phoned Sceptre customer service, and apparently the hdmi-dvi converter cable is OPTIONAL. Why it is makes no sense to me. I explained that I ordered from costco and was told that only costco can specify the inclusion of the hdmi calbe. No biggy, it's only 5$ anyway, just wished I would have known earlier cause I wanted to hookup this LCD with DVI to see just how sharp this monitor can get.

Anyway, this monitor owns. Its incredibly sharp, more than I anticipated because of the huge size of the screen. I am currently playing COD2, Lineage 2 , and WoW and am experiencing no juddering to my eyes. Will install powerstrip and judder test in a few.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the purchase.

ROBDP

12-29-05, 12:07 PM

zima500

12-29-05, 12:09 PM

Yeah monoprice has it for $5, but I called sceptre again. Instead of customer service I called technical support, and I'm gonna receive an HDMI-DVI converter after I fill out this form and fax sales receipt, etc. ( Crappy, but I'll ge the cable).

Harper

12-29-05, 12:30 PM

zima500,

When you play your games, if you can, crank up the resolution to the full 1920x1080 (if you haven't already). You'll get the best image that way, but may also run into the judder. I see it in Civ IV when I scroll the global map. I tried WoW and didn't see it from just spinning in circles in Ironforge, but I didn't venture farther than that (I'm on my way out of that game).

Besides the judder test software, you can download the Windows WMV files. Check out the Microsoft webpage and search from there for it. Sorry, I forgot offhand the best keywords, but you should find a page with samples from the movies they sell in 1080P. The downloads are pretty big but will show you 1080P.

Harper

redgtconv

12-29-05, 01:45 PM

Regarding the new 42" Sceptre, what dates will the coupon at Costco be valid for? I did not receive my Costco coupon book yet Also, I know we can't discuss specific price, but can you tell me if it is substantialy more than the 37". Thanks!

HDNOW

12-29-05, 02:09 PM