Note: This post has been updated to include answers to questions up to page 2 in this thread so after you read this post, you can skip to page 2 if you want to avoid chatter.

I just plugged in my Sceptre 37" 1920x1080 TV, and here are some first notes / thoughts, along with some pictures.

Packaging: Good, not great, Unless they throw it it'll probably arrive OK. It's double boxed with nothing in between the 2 boxes, good so that you can save the original box for storage, but I would have preferred some air between the boxes because UPS is about the worst carrier out there when it comes to damaging shipments.

Contents:
* Remote
* Batteries for Remote.
* Cable - HDMI on TV end, DVI on PC end. It's only 3' long though.
* Cable - Audio/Video/Composite
* Cable - Component
* Cable - Mini audio cable (headphone size on both ends perfect for sound blaster)
* Cable - Power
* Cable - VGA
* Two wires for hooking up attachable speakers
* Manual

Picture:

I'm really only going to hook up a PC via HDMI/DVI, and I have no good source of NTSC video so you're going to have to rely on someone else for that info. I did hook up an HDTV antenna though.

As far as the PC input via HDMI, it really does look great, I tested it at 1920x1080 from a Radeon X800XL, it did 1:1 pixel perfect soon as it booted up. It's 10am, and sunny and theres a window behind the TV, but blacks are pure black and whites are excellent. The backlight has 8 levels (0-7) I have it on 4 now and am completely satisfied by the brightness and blackness. I could probably punch it down a few notches as well.

I see no banding but I'm not an expert on this as I have never actually seen that sort of thing. The only thing I can notice is that if you turn the lamp up to max, and look hard it's slightly brighter around the edges, not much though. I think most people wont see that, and I can only see it when I really try to find something wrong, and it's in HDMI mode with a blue windows desktop background with lamp full on

Dot pitch is evident though when you're sitting with your eyes closer than 24" from the TV , and is a little annoying, but when I sit 24"+ from the screen its not an issue at all. It's also annoying to have to turn your head left and right to read the whole screen lol but thats life in the fast lane.

OTA HDTV:

There is an issue:

Any channel you tune to will say what it's being broadcast in in the EPG. The OSD always says 720p no matter what channel you are on. I've asked Sceptre about this and they say it's a bug, and the 720p is incorrect. I'm not so sure I believe them though. This unit may be using a tuner that has a max output of 720p, and therefor not delivering true 1080i to you.

Other than that, I was really impressed that it could pull in stations that neither my HDTV Wonder, nor my Fusion5 could see. But after a few hours it seemed as though the sensitivity of the tuner degraded and I went from 8 channels back to 4. Perhaps heat is a factor here? Unfortunately, I can't find any content playing at the moment that isn't just upscaled 480i, and the problem with that is that most of the local stations have pathetic upscalers, not to mention the extremely awefull analog->digital conversion... I have always seen alot of blooming, ghosting, and aliasing from local upscaled HDTV (this is on 3 different systems) due to crummy conversion/upscaling at the source. One 1080i channel showing 480i upscaled looks really good though.

One annoyance I can see is that it doesn't always get the aspect ratio right on "auto" mode. That's kinda common but the kicker is that you switch between "auto" and "4:3" "zoom" "19:9" and "partial zoom" on a global basis... that is if you switch on one channel, then change the channel, you have to switch back to Auto, or the appropriate aspect. There's no way to save aspects on a per channel basis. Highly annoying. I'm not much of a TV watcher though, so it's not that big of a deal for me.

On Screen Guide.
It's no TIVO, but seems adequate. It appears that the guide is generated in a res closer to 640x480, and then overlayed on the video (not the panel) so when you select a zoomed aspect ratio, your guide is zoomed off the top of the screen lol.

DVD via PC
Well, I just built this PC so dont have DVD installed yet, but I do have DIVX, and I played a 2.1gig divx of the 9gig enhanced matrix in DVI at 1920x1080, and well, I'm really blown away by it, Looks are all subjective, but I have to say it looks better than my 23" HP widescreen LCD, better than my 720p Panasonic projector (AE-700), and better than any LCD source I've seen (quite a few). As far as color levels, depth of color, black and white levels, it really reminds me of my 32" SD Sony TV that I got rid of a few years ago, but of course this has a much sharper image.

PIP:
I'm not all too impressed with the PIP functionality as a whole. (but then again, I never am) I may not have it all figured out yet, but it looks like there are 2 sides to the TV, one has HDTV/VGA/DVI/HDMI, the other side has NTSC TV/AV1/AV2/Component.
When you are watching the first side(HDTV/VGA/DVI/HDMI), you can PIP NTSC TV, AV1, AV2, and that's it.
When you are watching the second side, you have more options but it gets more complicated. I dont have a full matrix of the possibilities.
there is a button on the remote labled PIP Audio, you press it and it toggles between main audio, and PIP audio. When in DVI mode on main picture, you can surf channels in the PIP as well The pip aspect ratio is fixed at 16:9 with no apparent way to change it, and it appears that all sources are stretched to fill the PIP window. The size of the pip window can be toggled between 1/4 screen size, and 1/16 screen size with another size in between. There is no accurate positional control available for it, you can put it in one of the 4 corners but not move it around. There is also a swap button on the remote to swap pip<->main, and the sound follows the swap. The PIP window has a bright red border around it about 1/4" wide.

Sound:
I think it's safe to say no one is going to rave about the high def sound. There is no bass at all. (I guess the subwoofer out should be a clue). It doesn't sound completely awfull, I mean theres not alot of distortion or anything. It looks like it would be easy to open the detachable speakers (a few screws) and replace the speakers inside with some quality ones. It appears there are 3x3" circular shaped speakers in each side. This thing does look overbearing with the speakers attached, and if you have a bright light source behind it (window like me) you can see some light coming through between the gap between the speaker and the case. As soon as I dig up my old 5.1-in-a-box from the basement Im taking off the speakers and running with that... More for aesthetic reasons than anything else.
* Update * I have come to realise that the sound from this unit is pathetically bad. Frequency response is non linear, everything sounds muddy, and everyone is reporting hiss and buzz.


Inputs:
The inputs look to be the same as pictured on the Sceptre website, so have a look at the pic there. Although they are all downward facing which I find kinda annoying.

Case Quality:
The case looks fine to both myself, and the wife. The stand does look cheap though. There is no tilt or swivel on the stand. On the back, the power rocker is slightly tilted on it's mount, minor defect but no one will ever see so I'm not worried.

Dead Pixels:
When I get within 6" or so I can see one pixel in the lower center that has a dead blue component. This wont bother me though because it's bright yellow on a white screen, and black on a black screen... i.e. its invisible for most conditions even when up real close.

Mounting holes:
It has mounting holes, looks like the screw holes are about same size as vesa monitor mounting screws, but the spacing is much larger... I dont have a metric ruler handy but the spacing between the holes is 17.5" horizontal and 8" vertical.
It looks like you could flush mount this baby directly to the wall, and still be able to connect/disconnect cables while it's mounted (Provided you have a small hand or can borrow one).

PC Standby:
Unfortunately, the LCD Panel goes bright blue when the PC puts it on standby.
I didn't wait long to test if it eventually decides for itself to go into standby. I never really turn mine off so it wont be an issue for me but for those who do that could be annoying.

My testing method: In display properties, screen saver tab, clicked power, set "turn of monitor" to 1min, then waited 60 seconds, it went bright blue, waited 5 minutes, still bright blue.

Additional Notes/Quirks:
* When selecting DVI/HDMI, there are 3 modes, the first one crops , says HDMI, the second one crops, says HDMI/HDCP, the third one says DVI and doesn't crop. Don't panic when you get a cropped image like I did, just keep cycling :)

* You cant select any of the video sources directly, you cycle through 4 on one button, and the other 4 on the other.

Summary:
I'm happy I bought this thing, and would do it again. It's probably the best PC Monitor you can buy that's over 30" and with 1080p display. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that plans to use it solely as a TV though. To get the potential from this set I think you have to use external video sources.

Attached Images: Shows packaging, accessories, and comparison side to side with 15" lcd on monitor arm.
Dan K

Did you try with 1920x1080 from the PC ?

Just with the DVI/HDMI. It works perfect, 1:1 pixel map, also cleartype font smoothing looks great (perfect).

Dan K

Wow! Thanks for the quick review dkelly.

Can you let us know when you get a chance, if the Sceptre LCD works with computer standby mode? It would be very annoying when the LCD stays on when my computer goes to standby mode. =)

Thanks for the review. Do you have a software DVD player you could check to see how a DVD looks when upconverted to 1920 x 1080?

Unfortunately, the LCD Panel goes bright blue when the PC puts it on standby.
I didn't wait long to test if it eventually decides for itself to go into standby. I never really turn mine off so it wont be an issue for me but for those who do that could be annoying.

My testing method: In display properties, screen saver tab, clicked power, set "turn of monitor" to 1min, then waited 60 seconds, it went bright blue.

Dan K

Sorry to bother you while you are enjoying your new LCD... =)

Another request when you get to it... Can you give us your opinion on the PIP? I know you said it's only hooked up to the computer but I think it will be interesting to see the picture quality of the SDTV in PIP while browing the net on the computer.

Gratz on your LCD... looks like a winner =)

Thanks for the review. Do you have a software DVD player you could check to see how a DVD looks when upconverted to 1920 x 1080?

Well, I just built this PC so dont have DVD installed yet, but I do have DIVX, and I played a 2.1gig divx of the 9gig enhanced matrix in DVI at 1920x1080, and well, I'm really blown away by it, Looks are all subjective, but I have to say it looks better than my 23" HP widescreen LCD, better than my 720p Panasonic projector (AE-700), and better than any LCD source I've seen (quite a few). As far as color levels, depth of color, black and white levels, it really reminds me of my 32" SD Sony TV that I got rid of a few years ago.

Although that's only in video playback, in Windows it looks pretty darn good, my only annoyance is the pixel spacing, which I understand is a problem with any display this size, and I really have never sat this close to anything this size so I have nothing to go on. Really I know Im sitting too close, this thing wasn't designed to be viewed at 24"... when I pull my head back another foot, it looks perfect.

I can't get over how bright this thing is at %50 lamp power. I'll have to wait to tonight to see how bad it does in dark rooms, I've always heard that's LCDs weak spot.

Dan K

Thanks for the review dkelly, I am jealous mine hasn't shipped yet though heh.

dkelly: Thank you so much for the quick, thorough review AND photos. Hope you are having a ball with it.
Does my video card need to support the 1920 x 1080 exactly, ie., do I need to go into DISPLAY PROPERTIES;SETTINGS;SCREEN RESOLUTION and be able to find exactly "1920 x 1080?
My card is the ATI Radeon X800 XT WITH 256 mb.

Thanks again for sharing all with us. Richard

dkelly: Thank you so much for the quick, thorough review AND photos. Hope you are having a ball with it.
Does my video card need to support the 1920 x 1080 exactly, ie., do I need to go into DISPLAY PROPERTIES;SETTINGS;SCREEN RESOLUTION and be able to find exactly "1920 x 1080?
My card is the ATI Radeon X800 XT WITH 256 mb.

Thanks again for sharing all with us. Richard

Those resolutions scale many times according to your monitor, you should be fine, dont worry about it

Did the package as delivered feel as though it was 101 pounds, as the UPS shipping info states? Or do you think that it weighs in closer to the 60 pounds as Sceptre lists for the set with its stand attached?

Looks great! Eagerly awaiting this unit.

dkelly: Thank you so much for the quick, thorough review AND photos. Hope you are having a ball with it.
Does my video card need to support the 1920 x 1080 exactly, ie., do I need to go into DISPLAY PROPERTIES;SETTINGS;SCREEN RESOLUTION and be able to find exactly "1920 x 1080?
My card is the ATI Radeon X800 XT WITH 256 mb.

Thanks again for sharing all with us. Richard


You should be perfectly fine with your X800 as my 9800 Pro vcan display 1920x1080 on my Dell 2405 just fine in both DVI and VGA.

Thanks for the review I would love to hear some feed back on SD TV to see how the scaler anti's up. I should have mine tomorow.

Jay

Did the package as delivered feel as though it was 101 pounds, as the UPS shipping info states? Or do you think that it weighs in closer to the 60 pounds as Sceptre lists for the set with its stand attached?

60lbs... Either UPS uncrated it in the truck, or they misweighed or they ripped someone off :) It has UPS sticker on it and doesnt look like it was crated so I think one of the latter

dkelly: Thank you so much for the quick, thorough review AND photos. Hope you are having a ball with it.
Does my video card need to support the 1920 x 1080 exactly, ie., do I need to go into DISPLAY PROPERTIES;SETTINGS;SCREEN RESOLUTION and be able to find exactly "1920 x 1080?
My card is the ATI Radeon X800 XT WITH 256 mb.

Thanks again for sharing all with us. Richard

I just plugged it in and it autodetected 1920x1080. This was ATI X800XL so Im sure it will be the same for you.

Dan K

Thanks for the review I would love to hear some feed back on SD TV to see how the scaler anti's up. I should have mine tomorow.

Jay

Well, I plugged my HDTV antenna into the SD input, and couldn't get any great reception on any channel. One was soso reception, and it looked VERY smooth.. better than any Plasma I've seen in bars. But that may have just been some noise. Going to have to wait for someone with cable or something like that to really tell you.

Sorry to bother you while you are enjoying your new LCD... =)

Another request when you get to it... Can you give us your opinion on the PIP? I know you said it's only hooked up to the computer but I think it will be interesting to see the picture quality of the SDTV in PIP while browing the net on the computer.

Gratz on your LCD... looks like a winner =)

I'm not all too impressed with the PIP functionality as a whole. I may not have it all figured out yet, but it looks like there are 2 sides to the TV, one has HDTV/VGA/DVI/HDMI, the other side has NTSC TV/AV1/AV2/Component.

When you are watching the first side(HDTV/VGA/DVI/HDMI), you can PIP NTSC TV, AV1, AV2, and that's it.

When you are watching the second side, you have more options but it gets more complicated. I dont have a full matrix of the possibilities.

There is no sound in PIP mode, so I dont think you'll have much fun watching tv in PIP when computing unless you really don't need sound (bloombergs?).

I really can't comment on PIP picture quality but it does appear slightly strectched horizontally. You can adjust the size of the PIP (4 sizes), and set it in one of the 4 corners, and that's about it.

I'm not all too impressed with the PIP functionality as a whole. I may not have it all figured out yet, but it looks like there are 2 sides to the TV, one has HDTV/VGA/DVI/HDMI, the other side has NTSC TV/AV1/AV2/Component.

When you are watching the first side(HDTV/VGA/DVI/HDMI), you can PIP NTSC TV, AV1, AV2, and that's it.

When you are watching the second side, you have more options but it gets more complicated. I dont have a full matrix of the possibilities.

There is no sound in PIP mode, so I dont think you'll have much fun watching tv in PIP when computing unless you really don't need sound (bloombergs?).

I really can't comment on PIP picture quality but it does appear slightly strectched horizontally. You can adjust the size of the PIP (4 sizes), and set it in one of the 4 corners, and that's about it.


What about OTA HDTV ? try it out?

Just out of curiosity, does this unit have a standard VESA mounting capability so a wall mount can be attached and if so is it a VESA 100 or 200 spacing? Thanks.

I am still awaiting ship notification as I ordered on August 22 minus 3, right after they changed from 7 to 10 days delivery to 15 to 20 days...rats.

Sounds like you got a good one. Wonder how it will work with an upconverted HDMI output from DVD.

Just out of curiosity, does this unit have a standard VESA mounting capability so a wall mount can be attached and if so is it a VESA 100 or 200 spacing? Thanks.

I am still awaiting ship notification as I ordered on August 22 minus 3, right after they changed from 7 to 10 days delivery to 15 to 20 days...rats.

Sounds like you got a good one. Wonder how it will work with an upconverted HDMI output from DVD.


I think it does have a stadard mount.... you can even purchase one from costco its right on the page there.

dkelly,

Could you post a pic of the input ports within the context of the whole set. The Sceptre profile pic doesn't indicate where on the set the ports are (I see that you state they are downward facing - are they on the bottom/back of the set?). Do you see a problem with flush wall mounting and still being able to route the cables behind the unit (assume a wall mount bracket with 1-2" of clearance) to a wall jack near center back?

Thanks

You do know you have to now spend a LOT of time answeing Qs for all. right! LOL. I don't have a Q for you. Congrats on your purchase. Thats a BIG monitor for browsing though!!

dkelly,

Could you post a pic of the input ports within the context of the whole set. The Sceptre profile pic doesn't indicate where on the set the ports are (I see that you state they are downward facing - are they on the bottom/back of the set?). Do you see a problem with flush wall mounting and still being able to route the cables behind the unit (assume a wall mount bracket with 1-2" of clearance) to a wall jack near center back?

Thanks

Done. Attached are pics of the back of the unit.

It looks like you could flush mount this baby directly to the wall, and still be able to connect/disconnect cables while it's mounted (Provided you have a small hand or can borrow one).

Dan K

Someone posted on the main thread that a CSR claimed there is "supposedly yes" QAM support. Is this accurate? I'll be really disappointed if the CSR is wrong.

Q: 3. Does the ATSC tuner support unscrambled digital cable-QAM?

A: once again supposively yes, but not tested so I cannot confirm

Just out of curiosity, does this unit have a standard VESA mounting capability so a wall mount can be attached and if so is it a VESA 100 or 200 spacing? Thanks.

I am still awaiting ship notification as I ordered on August 22 minus 3, right after they changed from 7 to 10 days delivery to 15 to 20 days...rats.

Sounds like you got a good one. Wonder how it will work with an upconverted HDMI output from DVD.

It has mounting holes, looks like the screw holes are about same size as vesa monitor mounting screws, but the spacing is much larger... I dont have a metric ruler handy but the spacing between the holes is 17.5" horizontal and 8" vertical.

Dan K

You do know you have to now spend a LOT of time answeing Qs for all. right! LOL. I don't have a Q for you. Congrats on your purchase. Thats a BIG monitor for browsing though!!

Haha, no problem, I'm just sitting here with my mouth hanging open looking at it anyways :)

I'm not going to be doing a ton of browsing on this thing. The machine it's hooked up to has dual opterons, and a terrabyte RAID5 on it with about 700gigs of DiVX movies, that's about 700 movies. Thats what this monitor is for :) It's sitting in the bedroom to help me fall asleep at night :) I've also got a wireless 108mbps connection to the Panasonic AE700 projector upstairs and 23" monitor in the living room so it shares well.

The only problem now is that I'll have to trash alot of the low bitrate (CD sized) DiVX movies and start replacing them with the dual CD size ones because this thing shows more of the compression artifacts.

Now all I have to do is port ffdshow's scaling to be multiprocessor so I can upsize using lancosz directly to 1920x1080, and still have all the noise reduction algorithms plugged in.

I'd say anyone who's doing what I'm doing will be very satisfied with this monitor.

I'm guessing it will get mixed reviews as a TV though, although what 30+" doesnt get mixed reviews?

Dan K

Someone posted on the main thread that a CSR claimed there is "supposedly yes" QAM support. Is this accurate? I'll be really disappointed if the CSR is wrong.

How do I tell? It does have a HDMI with HDCP option, DTV doesnt say anything about QAM... I dont' have a cable box to test with and I understand that QAM is a cable thingy.

Dan K

What about OTA HDTV ? try it out?

Yes I did. I was really impressed that it could pull in stations that neither my HDTV Wonder, nor my Fusion5 could see. Unfortunately, I can't find any content playing at the moment that isn't just upscaled 480i, and the problem with that is that most of the local stations have pathetic upscalers, not to mention the extremely awefull analog->digital conversion... I have always seen alot of blooming, ghosting, and aliasing from local upscaled HDTV (this is on 3 different systems) due to crummy conversion/upscaling at the source. One 1080i channel showing 480i upscaled looks really good though.

One annoyance I can see is that it doesn't always get the aspect ratio right on "auto" mode. That's kinda common but the kicker is that you switch between "auto" and "4:3" "zoom" "19:9" and "partial zoom" on a global basis... that is if you switch on one channel, then change the channel, you have to switch back to Auto, or the appropriate aspect. There's no way to save aspects on a per channel basis. Highly annoying. I'm not much of a TV watcher though, so it's not that big of a deal for me.

Dan K

I've updated the post at the top of this thread, I'll try to update it from time to time.

Dan K

...There is no sound in PIP mode, so I dont think you'll have much fun watching tv in PIP when computing unless you really don't need sound (bloombergs?)...

While most PIP modes don't generate audio on-board while the main screen is using the speakers (unless like the Westinghouse, there is a menu selection to allow switching the audio source between Main & Sub), there is usually an audio out that will permit running the PIP audio to another set of speakers (or amp).

Does this set have "any" audio out for the PIP or an ability to menu select so both the main image and the PIP can have audio (like the Westinghouse does). I REALLY hope this is the case or it may be a deal breaker for me. I plan on having the main area for computing and the PIP for TV using the audio on low in the background.

Also, is it a fact that the screen goes to BLUE without a signal and not into a sleep mode? Even my Westinghouse first shows a DARK (black) screen with a "No Signal Detected" icon for a few seconds (perhaps 15-30) before going into an energy saving sleep mode.

Thanks for the added feedback...

Wow, Dkelly, this set sounds like it might be great. Glad you're enjoying it.

Can you tell me if it does have audio outputs and if they are variable (controllable with the remote).

Thanks!

Enjoy!!

maybe I should sell my HDTV wonder on ebay now....

While most PIP modes don't generate audio on-board while the main screen is using the speakers (unless like the Westinghouse, there is a menu selection to allow switching the audio source between Main & Sub), there is usually an audio out that will permit running the PIP audio to another set of speakers (or amp).

Does this set have "any" audio out for the PIP or an ability to menu select so both the main image and the PIP can have audio (like the Westinghouse does). I REALLY hope this is the case or it may be a deal breaker for me. I plan on having the main area for computing and the PIP for TV using the audio on low in the background.

Also, is it a fact that the screen goes to BLUE without a signal and not into a sleep mode? Even my Westinghouse first shows a DARK (black) screen with a "No Signal Detected" icon for a few seconds (perhaps 15-30) before going into an energy saving sleep mode.

Thanks for the added feedback...

Actually, you're right. there is a button on the remote labled PIP Audio, you press it and it toggles between main audio, and PIP audio. When in DVI mode on main picture, you can surf channels in the PIP as well :) The pip aspect ratio is fixed at 16:9 with no apparent way to change it, and it appears that all sources are stretched to fill the PIP window. The size of the pip window can be toggled between 1/4 screen size, and 1/16 screen size with another size in between. There is no accurate positional control available for it, you can put it in one of the 4 corners but not move it around. There is also a swap button on the remote to swap pip<->main, and the sound follows the swap.

I dont think this thing ever goes from bright blue to power save... I waited around 5 minutes and it was still bright blue.

Dan K

Could you please measure its size without the speakers.
My ent. center have 37" openning and I hope that by some miracle I could fit in it without speaker...

Thanks for spending the time with us.

Oh, and another question Dan.

I've noticed that with 32" Sharp which my friend own. If you turn monitor without turning PC and than turn monitor back on, there is no way to see the picture from PC thru DVI. The only way is to shutdown PC and start it back up. It's quite annoying.
Could you please confirm there is no such thing with Sceptre?

Thanks

Wow, Dkelly, this set sounds like it might be great. Glad you're enjoying it.

Can you tell me if it does have audio outputs and if they are variable (controllable with the remote).

Thanks!

Enjoy!!

It has a mini stereo jack (on the back with the rest of the jacks) labeled "headphone out" that is in fact controllable by the volume control, it also mutes the built in speakers when you plug them in. The unit also has RCA line outs that I would assume aren't controlled by the volume control but I have no way to easily test.

Could you please measure its size without the speakers.
My ent. center have 37" openning and I hope that by some miracle I could fit in it without speaker...

Thanks for spending the time with us.

37 1/4" by my tape measure.

No prob for posting this review, I've lurked/leached for 3 years now on here, about time I gave something back.

Dan K

Oh, and another question Dan.

I've noticed that with 32" Sharp which my friend own. If you turn monitor without turning PC and than turn monitor back on, there is no way to see the picture from PC thru DVI. The only way is to shutdown PC and start it back up. It's quite annoying.
Could you please confirm there is no such thing with Sceptre?

Thanks

Had TV and PC both on in DVI, turned off tv, waited 5 seconds, turned on TV, picture came back as expected.

I'd assume the problem might be with your friends video card. Also if you turn on the PC while the tv is off, I think it might not autodetect the tv correctly. I've had a ton of DVI equipment, and this is often the case, especially the first time you connect a particular tv to a particular pc. Again I think this more has to do with the PC's Video card, than the TV.

Dan K

Thanks for the great review, Dan. I think your opinion can help people make up their mind. I am now fighting with my wife to get her permission. You know, women always have a negative reaction to the purchase of big-ticket electronics.
Could you please comment the gaming performance? I read its response time as 8ms, which should be better than Westinghouse LCD TV that has 12ms. Your X800XL should be able to play some games(of course not those killer games such as Battlefield 2, or Doom 3) under native 1920X1080 resolution. How is that? In addition, for some games like Half Life2, could you try to use a 16:9 or 4: 3 resolution like 1280X720 for 16:9 or 1024X768 for 4:3 to test its scale quality? Also, is there a way you can determine if this TV scales up all stuff to its 1080p native resolution? How about its scale capability of DVD playing(480P) from PC?
So many questions here. Thanks in advance.

Just to make sure, you are displaying 1080p off of your video card?
And can you run this dead pixel tester every couple of days to see if some/how many pixels burn out, because for the first 3 weeks what ever will happen with an lcd display will happen within that period.
And congrats on your purchase.

Dead Pixel Buddy (http://www.laptopshowcase.co.uk/downloads.php?id=1)

And for stuck pixels.
Nokia monitor test (http://www.construnet.hu/nokia/Monitors/TEST/monitor_test.html)

Thanks for all the great information Dan - and thanks for costing me $1700 - seems like I have to get one now :)

Dude, awesome review. I'm cracking up at the pic of your setup....are you really sitting with your nose 6" from the screen? IMMERSION VIDEO. I'd get dizzy....

While most PIP modes don't generate audio on-board while the main screen is using the speakers (unless like the Westinghouse, there is a menu selection to allow switching the audio source between Main & Sub), there is usually an audio out that will permit running the PIP audio to another set of speakers (or amp).

Does this set have "any" audio out for the PIP or an ability to menu select so both the main image and the PIP can have audio (like the Westinghouse does). I REALLY hope this is the case or it may be a deal breaker for me. I plan on having the main area for computing and the PIP for TV using the audio on low in the background.

Also, is it a fact that the screen goes to BLUE without a signal and not into a sleep mode? Even my Westinghouse first shows a DARK (black) screen with a "No Signal Detected" icon for a few seconds (perhaps 15-30) before going into an energy saving sleep mode.

Thanks for the added feedback...

Ditch,
Since you own the Westinghouse when you get your Sceptre, It would be nice to hear about how you think it compares to the Westinghouse in every respect.

Thanks for the great review, Dan. I think your opinion can help people make up their mind. I am now fighting with my wife to get her permission. You know, women always have a negative reaction to the purchase of big-ticket electronics.
Could you please comment the gaming performance? I read its response time as 8ms, which should be better than Westinghouse LCD TV that has 12ms. Your X800XL should be able to play some games(of course not those killer games such as Battlefield 2, or Doom 3) under native 1920X1080 resolution. How is that? In addition, for some games like Half Life2, could you try to use a 16:9 or 4: 3 resolution like 1280X720 for 16:9 or 1024X768 for 4:3 to test its scale quality? Also, is there a way you can determine if this TV scales up all stuff to its 1080p native resolution? How about its scale capability of DVD playing(480P) from PC?
So many questions here. Thanks in advance.

Well herm I told the wife if we got this thing in the bedroom then I could take out my computer... (she jumped on that one) little did she know that It still needs a computer to run :) Now I've got what used to be my server running it on an ATI 7500.

Unfortunately I've already got the other PC in the livingroom (LOL) so I cant test any PC games... I'll hook the xbox up in a second though.

It looks to me like everything is upscaled to 1080p, but then again, that's the panels native resolution so it has to right? I really dont know how to tell for sure what it's doing in that arena. I'll test the DVD from the xbox at 480p in a while and post back.

Dan K

Thanks for the great review, Dan. I think your opinion can help people make up their mind. I am now fighting with my wife to get her permission. You know, women always have a negative reaction to the purchase of big-ticket electronics.
Could you please comment the gaming performance? I read its response time as 8ms, which should be better than Westinghouse LCD TV that has 12ms. Your X800XL should be able to play some games(of course not those killer games such as Battlefield 2, or Doom 3) under native 1920X1080 resolution. How is that? In addition, for some games like Half Life2, could you try to use a 16:9 or 4: 3 resolution like 1280X720 for 16:9 or 1024X768 for 4:3 to test its scale quality? Also, is there a way you can determine if this TV scales up all stuff to its 1080p native resolution? How about its scale capability of DVD playing(480P) from PC?
So many questions here. Thanks in advance.

His X800XL will be able to do 1920x1080 just fine on Battlefield 2 and Half Life 2 as my X800pro handles it without issue on my Westy, And as long as the response time is stated correctly that should not be an issue either as I notice no ghosting at all in my games on the Westy.

Just with the DVI/HDMI. It works perfect, 1:1 pixel map, also cleartype font smoothing looks great (perfect).

Dan K

AWESOME! Thanks for the review, I am glad to see that the panel supports 1920x1080 on the HDMI/DVI input that is awesome news. I am glad I ditched my Westy order and went with the Sceptre.....now if only costco would ship mine out already! I figure I will have a pretty long wait as I did not order until the 21st. Enjoy the new TV.

DMFN

Just to make sure, you are displaying 1080p off of your video card?
And can you run this dead pixel tester every couple of days to see if some/how many pixels burn out, because for the first 3 weeks what ever will happen with an lcd display will happen within that period.
And congrats on your purchase.

Dead Pixel Buddy (http://www.laptopshowcase.co.uk/downloads.php?id=1)

And for stuck pixels.
Nokia monitor test (http://www.construnet.hu/nokia/Monitors/TEST/monitor_test.html)

It's definitely running 1080p. I actually do have the ATI driver installed and when I checked it says 1920x1080 just like it was a regular display... there are no interlaced modes available with this driver. Also the display shows a max refresh of 75hz, and when I set that refresh, it syncs perfectly.

I ran the dead pixel tester and am now certain there is just one blue subpixel stuck in the off position. Not bad :)

Ran the Nokia monitor utilities and I have to say the display was flawless... even the contrast / brightness squares were perfect right out of the box.

Dan K

Dude, awesome review. I'm cracking up at the pic of your setup....are you really sitting with your nose 6" from the screen? IMMERSION VIDEO. I'd get dizzy....

Hahaha, no I got rid of the other 3 monitors and PC, I had to wait till this came in to get rid of my 24" pc display that I was using for nighttime TV. It's just this one on the desk now, and with the speakers attached takes up the whole desk, Im sitting about 25" from the screen :) Still might have a little neck ache from head turning :)

Dan K

Begging the pardon of all if this is a naive question but:

Can an upscaling DVD player (like a Bravo or Oppo) output to the native 1920X1024 resolution of the Sceptre through the DVI/HDMI input?

TIA,

It's definately running 1080p, the card i have it on now (ati 7500 with ms driver) doesnt even support interlaced.

I ran the dead pixel tester and am now certain there is just one blue subpixel stuck in the off position. Not bad :)

Ran the Nokia monitor utilities and I have to say the display was flawless... even the contrast / brightness squares were perfect right out of the box.

Dan K

Nice. Thanks

It has a mini stereo jack (on the back with the rest of the jacks) labeled "headphone out" that is in fact controllable by the volume control, it also mutes the built in speakers when you plug them in. The unit also has RCA line outs that I would assume aren't controlled by the volume control but I have no way to easily test.

Thanks. On my 26" Maxent there is a setting in the Sound Menu that allows one to make the audio outputs Fixed or Variable. A very handy thing for a bedroom LCD TV as I don't want to add more electronic gear than the TV (and a subwoofer - the subwoofer output is variable of course).
The sub really makes the sound quite good from this little TV. Now the Sceptre would do very nicely to take over for the Maxent which would do quite well in the Living room. :D
If you ever find out if the audio outputs are able to be fixed or variable please let me know. I have WAF to work on. :)

Thanks for the information. I have xbox and ps2. I'd like to see your update on xbox gaming quality on this TV. I currently have a Toshiba 30HF84 and its scale capability is terrible. Only 720P or 1080i stuff look decent. Anything lower than that (480i or 480P) looks terrible esp. PS2 games, which are full of jaggy lines.


Well herm I told the wife if we got this thing in the bedroom then I could take out my computer... (she jumped on that one) little did she know that It still needs a computer to run :) Now I've got what used to be my server running it on an ATI 7500.

Unfortunately I've already got the other PC in the livingroom (LOL) so I cant test any PC games... I'll hook the xbox up in a second though.

It looks to me like everything is upscaled to 1080p, but then again, that's the panels native resolution so it has to right? I really dont know how to tell for sure what it's doing in that arena. I'll test the DVD from the xbox at 480p in a while and post back.

Dan K

Ditch,
Since you own the Westinghouse when you get your Sceptre, It would be nice to hear about how you think it compares to the Westinghouse in every respect.


Happy to do what I what I can on that count mate!

From what I'm seeing already, PIP is going to be better on the Westy as you can have both PIP and Main screen using audio, the PIP picture can be moved to any spot on the screen. Also, the Westy does recognize sleep mode and goes into a standby mode, has PIP (picture in picture), POP (picture on picture) and PBP (picture by picture). One other upside to the Westy is that you can select the input source via the remote directly and it's menu system is pretty nicely designed and appealing to use.

As for other points, can't really say until more info is available and/or mine arrives (next week).

It seems as if both have the up sides and down. The Sceptre has tuners (Westy is a monitor only), and the Sceptre has HDMI (Westy has 2 DIVI ports of which one is fully 1080p compliant).

I'll post more as info becomes available...

Keep the good info coming!

Cheers :)

Happy to do what I what I can on that count mate!

From what I'm seeing already, PIP is going to be better on the Westy as you can have both PIP and Main screen using audio, the PIP picture can be moved to any spot on the screen. Also, the Westy does recognize sleep mode and goes into a standby mode, has PIP (picture in picture), POP (picture on picture) and PBP (picture by picture). One other upside to the Westy is that you can select the input source via the remote directly and it's menu system is pretty nicely designed and appealing to use.

As for other points, can't really say until more info is available and/or mine arrives (next week).

It seems as if both have the up sides and down. The Sceptre has tuners (Westy is a monitor only), and the Sceptre has HDMI (Westy has 2 DIVI ports of which one is fully 1080p compliant).

I'll post more as info becomes available...

Keep the good info coming!

Cheers :)


The 2 DVI ports in my eyes are a huge plus as I am allready using both of them on the Westy, One for my PC and the other for my Sony HDD500 HD recorder. I will look forward to your comments on the merits of both as it seems there is allways a zealous feel to the early reviews since it is just new and out of the box. Will be a few weeks before we know how well everything preforms with the Sceptre as everyone has a different eye for what they think is good or not.

Hi,

I've found something that seems kinda disturbing... let me say that I don't know much about HDTV, so please wait until someone else confirms this;

When you select DTV mode, it always shows 720p as the resolution.

This is even when you have a 1080i source or a 480i source.

Please see attached pictures of the same channel. EPG shows the channel as 1080i, but the TV says 720p... I couldn't get it to say anything else but 720p. I don't know if this means that the tuner is converting all incoming DTV to 720p, and then sending to the TV? or what? Maybe they used a cheap 720p tuner? I must say that I don't have much experience with HDTV to be able to tell by looking at the picture, and dont even think there is any real 1080i native content available locally. But if I was going to buy this tv to watch HDTV I'd wait until someone confirms what this TV is doing.

Then again this could all be user error, perhaps there is some control I can't find to change the conversion res... I don't know.

Dan K

Hi,

I've found something that seems kinda disturbing... let me say that I don't know much about HDTV, so please wait until someone else confirms this;

When you select DTV mode, it always shows 720p as the resolution.

This is even when you have a 1080i source or a 480i source.

Please see attached pictures of the same channel. EPG shows the channel as 1080i, but the TV says 720p... I couldn't get it to say anything else but 720p. I don't know if this means that the tuner is converting all incoming DTV to 720p, and then sending to the TV? or what? Maybe they used a cheap 720p tuner? I must say that I don't have much experience with HDTV to be able to tell by looking at the picture, and dont even think there is any real 1080i native content available locally. But if I was going to buy this tv to watch HDTV I'd wait until someone confirms what this TV is doing.

Then again this could all be user error, perhaps there is some control I can't find to change the conversion res... I don't know.

Dan K

Well I have 2 HD tuner boxes and the res can be set manually by either a switch on the box itself or a menu item on my other HD box. If anything If this is the case there should be a menu selection for such things, If there is not then this would be a kind of big issue. Not that 720p is bad, As it is not and there are some that think it is better than 1080i and vice versa but I sure would want to have the option to pick between the 2. As a matter of fact my Sony auto switches to what ever is brodcasting but my samsung is a hard switched to set it at 480p/720p/1080i.

Done. Attached are pics of the back of the unit.

It looks like you could flush mount this baby directly to the wall, and still be able to connect/disconnect cables while it's mounted (Provided you have a small hand or can borrow one).

Dan K

It has mounting holes, looks like the screw holes are about same size as vesa monitor mounting screws, but the spacing is much larger... I dont have a metric ruler handy but the spacing between the holes is 17.5" horizontal and 8" vertical.
Dan K

Dan,

Thanks for all of your time in answering our questions.

I am concerned though by the pictures and your measured hole spacing re: VESA mounting.

The 17.5" x 8" sounds unusual and is unlikely to fit most VESA mounting brackets out-of-the-box (adapter may be required). The stand mounting screws though, do appear to be standard VESA 100x200 - but, their position, indented from the back plane of the monitor, again, makes it look like most brackets would not fit. This is really perplexing as I can't see how it would be readily mounted on a standard VESA wall mount, yet I can't believe that Sceptre would require the need for special adapting plates. :confused:

(disheartening since I just ordered, after *much* research, what I thought to be the perfect mount for the Sceptre 30" and just-in-case for the Sceptre 37" - the Peerless ST640)

Dan, in all likelyhood you are just feeding the panel with 720P signal. I have yet to hear of a tuner that has a built-in scaler, and ther is no logic in having that. So, I think the theory that Sceptre's HD tuner is scaling HD signals to 720p is a little off. I would rather suspect your source equipment showing incorrect signal resolution. And aside from a couple of cable HD channels I believe most OTA HD programming if not all is 720p, so that's what your Sceptre is showing.

Well I have 2 HD tuner boxes and the res can be set manually by either a switch on the box itself or a menu item on my other HD box. If anything If this is the case there should be a menu selection for such things, If there is not then this would be a kind of big issue. Not that 720p is bad, As it is not and there are some that think it is better than 1080i and vice versa but I sure would want to have the option to pick between the 2. As a matter of fact my Sony auto switches to what ever is brodcasting but my samsung is a hard switched to set it at 480p/720p/1080i.

I can't find any hard switches on this unit, nothing mentioned in the manual, and can't find anything through either of the setup screens.

The manual really sucks by the way... I've seen better manuals with 200watt power supplies I bought from taiwan lol

I'm going to email sceptre and see what their response is.

Dan K

Dan, in all likelyhood you are just feeding the panel with 720P signal. I have yet to hear of a tuner that has a built-in scaler, and ther is no logic in having that. So, I think the theory that Sceptre's HD tuner is scaling HD signals to 720p is a little off. I would rather suspect your source equipment showing incorrect signal resolution. And aside from a couple of cable HD channels I believe most OTA HD programming if not all is 720p, so that's what your Sceptre is showing.

I have to say I have never seen an HD brodcast state it was one and it turned out to be the other unless the Sceptre is mis reporting it. Where I am located there are 5 1080i stations and 2 720p stations, So I would say 1080i is used more than the later at least in my area.

Dan, in all likelyhood you are just feeding the panel with 720P signal. I have yet to hear of a tuner that has a built-in scaler, and ther is no logic in having that. So, I think the theory that Sceptre's HD tuner is scaling HD signals to 720p is a little off. I would rather suspect your source equipment showing incorrect signal resolution. And aside from a couple of cable HD channels I believe most OTA HD programming if not all is 720p, so that's what your Sceptre is showing.

The only thing I'm feeding it is an antenna. It's using the built in OTA HDTV tuner.

I'm sure I'm making some mistake though (at least I hope I am).

I emailed sceptre, I'll post what they say.

Dan K

I have to say I have never seen an HD brodcast state it was one and it turned out to be the other unless the Sceptre is mis reporting it. Where I am located there are 5 1080i stations and 2 720p stations, So I would say 1080i is used more than the later at least in my area.

Same here, all the channels here either say 480i or 1080i in EPG. but the scepter only says 720p.

I can't find any hard switches on this unit, nothing mentioned in the manual, and can't find anything through either of the setup screens.

The manual really sucks by the way... I've seen better manuals with 200watt power supplies I bought from taiwan lol

I'm going to email sceptre and see what their response is.

Dan K

Hmmm,
You should be able to determine what that channel is using somewhere. Just to be sure that the Sceptre is just not mis reporting it. Other than that I guess all you can do is ask Sceptre, Which may get you any number of answers that may not be correct. Cant say I have ever run into this in my over 3 years of having an HDTV.

I can tell you this....
FOX=720p
NBC=1080i
CBS=1080i
ABC=720p
PBS=1080i
WB=1080i
UPN=1080i

CBS is 1080i as well. Tuner likely doesn't do 1080p, so they elected to stick with a progressive resolution? Native resolution seems like it would have been a better choice. Hopefully this can be fixed.

Not sure if I missed it in this thread but does the HDMI or Component accept 1080p inputs?

I'm also waiting to see the results of the Westy vs. Sceptre comparison. Only problem is that the Sceptre is only on sale through the 28th.

Kurtis

HDMI is supposed to, component does not.

OK I have the 37" hooked up to a Zenith HD 520 tuner through the HDMI to DVI cable that came with the set. The picture, even on the DirectTV HD channels is very very good, and HD OTA channels through the Zenith even better. Also, no bad poixels that I can find. This thing blows away my in for repair NEC 50MP1 plasma in terms of both resolution and how blacks are handled, e.g., no false contouring. There is good detail in the blacks. The problem is how do I get audio with this set up out of the Zenith and into the set. There appears to be no seperate audio in for the HDMI input and no ability to switch audio from say AV1 so it works with the HDMI video in. The owner's manualis horrible by the way.

Thanks,
JHellow

OK I have the 37" hooked up to a Zenith HD 520 tuner through the HDMI to DVI cable that came with the set. ...

That's good news. Have you tried any SD channels or DVD on component inputs by any chance?

... The problem is how do I get audio with this set up out of the Zenith and into the set. There appears to be no seperate audio in for the HDMI input and no ability to switch audio from say AV1 so it works with the HDMI video in. The owner's manualis horrible by the way.

Thanks,
JHellow

Try to see if the PC Audio in jack works with the HDMI input.

Owners manual is horrible eh, but of course that's not too suprising hehe. the HDMI port accepts audio through HDMI I'm hoping =)

and

"* You cant select any of the video sources directly, you cycle through 4 on one button, and the other 4 on the other. "

Now that is pure crap lol. Not a horribly big issue but it makes you think about how easy it would have been for them to fix that. I mean even my old vizio's crappy remote could let me switch directly to the input I want.

I'm glad to see the panel quality isn't too catastrophic just yet.

Oh, and another question Dan.

I've noticed that with 32" Sharp which my friend own. If you turn monitor without turning PC and than turn monitor back on, there is no way to see the picture from PC thru DVI. The only way is to shutdown PC and start it back up. It's quite annoying.
Could you please confirm there is no such thing with Sceptre?

Thanks

I have a 26" Sharp LCD TV and the same issue. Once I update the VGA driver (ATI AIW9800), the issue was gone

The PC In mini plug does work to provide audio with the DVI to HDMI supplied cable, but to get audio you must be set to the HDMI/HDCP source, not just HDMI. Fortunately, I had a mini plug to twin RCA cable set at home to take advantage of this.

Hooked up my OTA antenna to the ATSC tuner and I am getting 1080i on those channels that braodcast at 1080i. The tuner card seems no better that the ATSC tuner in the Zenith box.

SD seems fine on this set, better than my 50" NEC plasma, but that is not surprising.

This set is much better than I had expected, and side by side with our Sharp 26" lcd has much better resolution and black levels.

JHellow

OK I have the 37" hooked up to a Zenith HD 520 tuner through the HDMI to DVI cable that came with the set. The picture, even on the DirectTV HD channels is very very good, and HD OTA channels through the Zenith even better. Also, no bad poixels that I can find. This thing blows away my in for repair NEC 50MP1 plasma in terms of both resolution and how blacks are handled, e.g., no false contouring. There is good detail in the blacks. The problem is how do I get audio with this set up out of the Zenith and into the set. There appears to be no seperate audio in for the HDMI input and no ability to switch audio from say AV1 so it works with the HDMI video in. The owner's manualis horrible by the way.

Thanks,
JHellow

Using either HDCP or DVI modes it accepts HDMI but reads audio from the mini audio in jack. Not sure if the native HDMI is visible in the DVI mode but it should be in the HDCP...

Yeah I agree with picture quality on the monitor side of things... I'd go so far as to say it's the best LCD picture I've seen. I also have an hp2335 23" 1920x1200 display I payed $1800 for last fall, and I'd say the picture quality on this unit is vastly superior in the colors and blacks and brightness, of course this is much bigger with slightly lower res but it still has super res... I mean The thing's 37" and its STILL 60 DPI heck a couple of years ago ppl were only getting 72DPI on their puny 15" monitors.

On the TV (Tuner) side I think most people will be dissapointed if they buy it just for a TV. I think I'll be watching my TV through Windows MCE. Having said that, SD does scale pretty well... I think its just because this thing has so many pixels to scale with... I think it's just plain easier to spread out 480 lines over 1080 than it is to spread 480 over 720...

If it turns out that all the Tuner's HD is scaled to 720p Id say that sucks. It's looking like it is tho right now.

Dan K

Not sure if I missed it in this thread but does the HDMI or Component accept 1080p inputs?

I'm also waiting to see the results of the Westy vs. Sceptre comparison. Only problem is that the Sceptre is only on sale through the 28th.

Kurtis

Yeah hdmi says right on screen HDMI 1080P

Dan K

Since the ATSC tuner scales 1080i to 720p, is there any way to feed it 1080i other than an HTPC that converts to 1080p? Will a 1080i tuner work?

Using either HDCP or DVI modes it accepts HDMI but reads audio from the mini audio in jack. Not sure if the native HDMI is visible in the DVI mode but it should be in the HDCP...

Yeah I agree with picture quality on the monitor side of things... I'd go so far as to say it's the best LCD picture I've seen. I also have an hp2335 23" 1920x1200 display I payed $1800 for last fall, and I'd say the picture quality on this unit is vastly superior in the colors and blacks and brightness, of course this is much bigger with slightly lower res but it still has super res... I mean The thing's 37" and its STILL 60 DPI heck a couple of years ago ppl were only getting 72DPI on their puny 15" monitors.

On the TV (Tuner) side I think most people will be dissapointed if they buy it just for a TV. I think I'll be watching my TV through Windows MCE. Having said that, SD does scale pretty well... I think its just because this thing has so many pixels to scale with... I think it's just plain easier to spread out 480 lines over 1080 than it is to spread 480 over 720...

If it turns out that all the Tuner's HD is scaled to 720p Id say that sucks. It's looking like it is tho right now.

Dan K
You are doing an excellent job at accurately describing the pros and cons of this display. (Hint: when people tell you falsely "in all likelihood" you are wrong, add them to your ignore list).

This display is essentially a computer monitor which is no different than what we already have. The advantages are size, picture quality and price. But if in fact it converts broadcast 1080i to 720p then back to 1080p, then this is a fatal issue for most users.

The technical issue is probably lack of IC's which perform FULL 1080i to 1080p conversion/deinterlacing. Chips which perform 1080i to 720p are common and quite inexpensive.

Since the ATSC tuner scales 1080i to 720p, is there any way to feed it 1080i other than an HTPC that converts to 1080p? Will a 1080i tuner work?

Unless I am misunderstanding, JHellow says that ATSC tuner is displaying OTA in native (broadcast) res.


Hooked up my OTA antenna to the ATSC tuner and I am getting 1080i on those channels that broadcast at 1080i...



For those two (?) who now have the unit, is there any mention in the manual ( :rolleyes: ) of a VESA mounting bracket. I hate to harp on this, but for me (and likely many others) this would become a deal killer if we had to wait for Sceptre to release a custom mounting bracket adapter.

Well I got home late so I didn't get to play much. But she is hooked up.
First I didn't get the HDMI cable in the box so I used component. I am getting 1080i out of my HDDVR Box from Adelphia. Looks great!!
Computer is hooked up through 15 pin RGB. Looks amazing!!!
Both blow away my Panasonic Plasma
A lot brighter and the computer is light years ahead more clear and easy to read. Plasma for computer will give you a head ache. I do a lot of net surfing in the living room. So easy for me to say I'm in love.
As for Standard broadcast TV I prefer this LCD over my plasma due to the fact that it is brighter but the picture is a slight bit better on my plasma.
I don't have concerns about the HD tuner because I'm not using it.
I am a little bumed I had to go and get a component 3/1 box to use all of my components but that is a small price to pay ($69) for such a great deal on a true HD TV. Oh I also watched some HD movies (clips) from my computer and the picture was unreal at 1920-1080 honestly I did not check to see if it was 1080P or not I assume it was.

Jay

When I use the ATCS tuner in the set and hit the infobutton on the remote the OSD indicates a 1080i signal when appropriate and a 720P signal when appropriate. Perhap that does not tell us whether the display is scaling the 1080i ATSC signal to 720P. HD signals through the ATSC tuner do appear a bit softer than ATSC signal thgrough the Zenith box.

Also, when I select DVI throuch PC Sources, all signals are scaled to 480 X 640 irrespective of the signal resolution from the DVI connector on the Zenith box, but that source does pick up audio from the mini-plug input.

This is a great set for the money. I wish I had a 1080P source for it. My Apple Dual G4 video does not have a DVI out, only an ADC.

JHellow

JHellow

JHellow

pospower, I hope you can still return that switcher because you can get a pelican pro with 8/1 component switching and 3/1 optical switching for less.

How much less. I'm happy with mine it has a small remote and works great. I don't need 8/1 just 3/1

Here's an avs review of the Pelican Pro: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=363624
According to the review it now comes with a remote. Sounds good!

Would any of you lucky guys who have taken early delivery -- and so generously shared your first impressions -- answer a simple question for me. Then again, maybe it's not simple enough for the folks at Sceptre, since I have asked them twice by e-mail and once by phone (left message) and have yet to hear from them.

The question is: What material are the speaker grilles made of? From the photos at the Sceptre site or on costco's website, I cannot tell whether they are black fabric, perforated plastic, or (I have my fingers crossed for the quality approach) perforated metal.

Thanks for your reviews. I did not order mine until Monday 8/22, so I guess I have a bit of a wait ahead of me, but this one looks like a keeper -- as opposed to the 32" Proview RX-326, which I got on a recent Costco coupon deal . . . and which is going back to them if my Sceptre X37SV is as good as yours.

Now -- anyone else -- what's a decent, inexpensive video card that will output the 1920x1080 DVI signal that will make this monitor sing?

Thanks,

Ken Flick

When I use the ATCS tuner in the set and hit the infobutton on the remote the OSD indicates a 1080i signal when appropriate and a 720P signal when appropriate. Perhap that does not tell us whether the display is scaling the 1080i ATSC signal to 720P. HD signals through the ATSC tuner do appear a bit softer
The softness does imply downrezing and scaling. Certainly NOT a reason to be excited about.

The smoking gun test is to set ones computer video applet software to 1920*1080p @ 30fps or 1920*1080i 60fps. Use HDTV resolutions timings.
Nvidia drivers have had this feature for several months.

The optimal solution is a PCI card based HDTV tuner. Here one would get full 1920*1080p 1:1 pixel mapping.

Speaking of the speakers... How do they sound? I had a 20.1" Sceptre PC monitor with built-in speakers that sounded awful. I'm hoping Sceptre spent a few more bucks on the speakers for this 37".

How much less. I'm happy with mine it has a small remote and works great. I don't need 8/1 just 3/1

well i've seen them go as low as $50, but of course it's up to you. I personaly bought a JVC passive component switcher for 70 or so back in january and I wish I knew about the pelican one, but by then it was too late. I bought the pelican one for switching optical sound anyway. It's a very good switcher for the price, but if you're happy with the one you have and it has a remote that's good too :D. I will note that I did get some weird scan lines with my xbox when I used it for video switching with my old TV, not sure why because the ps2 for it was fine.

I have a question for anyone with the set though, how are the viewing angles?

The softness does imply downrezing and scaling. Certainly NOT a reason to be excited about.

The smoking gun test is to set ones computer video applet software to 1920*1080p @ 30fps or 1920*1080i 60fps. Use HDTV resolutions timings.
Nvidia drivers have had this feature for several months.

OK can you explain this I"ll try it I have my tv set up am going home to tweek at lunch.

When I use the ATCS tuner in the set and hit the infobutton on the remote the OSD indicates a 1080i signal when appropriate and a 720P signal when appropriate. Perhap that does not tell us whether the display is scaling the 1080i ATSC signal to 720P. HD signals through the ATSC tuner do appear a bit softer than ATSC signal thgrough the Zenith box.


Dont you mean the EPG not the OSD... the OSD only shows up when you switch sources, try switching to say SD tv, then back to HD, and at top left in green you'll see DTV 720P, no matter what station your on... also hitting the PIP will do it.

The EPG is a part of the tuner and usually indicates the broadcast specs of the signal. 720p sets will show 1080i here for programs that are broadcast in 1080i regardless of what res they display in. The OSD is a part of the Monitor, and I'm starting to believe that's showing the res that the tuner module is outputting.

Dan K

Would any of you lucky guys who have taken early delivery -- and so generously shared your first impressions -- answer a simple question for me. Then again, maybe it's not simple enough for the folks at Sceptre, since I have asked them twice by e-mail and once by phone (left message) and have yet to hear from them.

The question is: What material are the speaker grilles made of? From the photos at the Sceptre site or on costco's website, I cannot tell whether they are black fabric, perforated plastic, or (I have my fingers crossed for the quality approach) perforated metal.

Thanks for your reviews. I did not order mine until Monday 8/22, so I guess I have a bit of a wait ahead of me, but this one looks like a keeper -- as opposed to the 32" Proview RX-326, which I got on a recent Costco coupon deal . . . and which is going back to them if my Sceptre X37SV is as good as yours.

Now -- anyone else -- what's a decent, inexpensive video card that will output the 1920x1080 DVI signal that will make this monitor sing?

Thanks,

Ken Flick

The speaker enclosure is a solid hunk of black plastic with holes and simulated holes punched in the front of it. there are only real holes in front of the speakers, there are 3 speakers on each side, one hole looks to be 2" and the other 2 holes are 3"... you have to get real close to see the real holes from the simulated ones.

Basically it's good looking design with cheap as possible construction.

I think you can take apart each enclosure by removing screws and may be able to replace the actual speakers inside...

Dan K
Dan K

reincarnate,

I don't understand how testing 1920X1080p on the HDMI input will test if the ATSC tuner supports 1080i. It's be clearly stated multiple times that 1920X1080p works and is sharp looking (in other words, it works in 1080p via the HDMI). Maybe you can elaborate a little more?

The "softness" on the ATSC tuner also depends on the source content, which we have no control over, unless one has a signal generator.

BTW, to anybody that got the unit so far, any QAM (digital cable) support on the tuner?

-eric

Can someone do a proper calibration on this unit and see if it does the traditional red push on the CMO panel (like in the similarly used Westinghouse) and quantify it's black levels.

The smoking gun test is to set ones computer video applet software to 1920*1080p @ 30fps or 1920*1080i 60fps. Use HDTV resolutions timings.
Nvidia drivers have had this feature for several months.

The optimal solution is a PCI card based HDTV tuner. Here one would get full 1920*1080p 1:1 pixel mapping.

It's definitely NOT scaling the HDMI input. It's definitely 1:1 pixel mapping.

After you play with the set for a bit, you realize that this set is actually 4 components.

1 - 1920x1080 Monitor just like on your PC.
2 - Computer that ties it all together, and runs the monitor, controlling contrast, brightness, backlight, remote control, source switching, OSD, aspect ratio.
3 - NTSC Tuner that's closely integrated with 2, possibly built into 2. It's completely controlled by 2.
4 - ATSC Tuner that's not closely integrated, basically its like having an external tuner with EPG that's on a 720p input into 2, this Tuner has it's own computer, and it's own settings and gui and look and feel. When you change channels, 2 doesnt even know what channel you're on, its just saying 720p, so the EPG thats built into the ATSC tuner pops up and tells you the channel info. When you select zoom aspect ratio, the ATSC tuner doesnt even know you've zoomed and it's EPG is zoomed off screen lol.

Dan K

what about banding? anyone see that?

Speaking of the speakers... How do they sound? I had a 20.1" Sceptre PC monitor with built-in speakers that sounded awful. I'm hoping Sceptre spent a few more bucks on the speakers for this 37".

After playing with it overnight I really hate the speakers. They dont sound aweful on the TV side, but barely passable, but when using the PC input they really sound like junk. Muddy distorted junk. Most $10 PC speakers from taiwan sound better. Really.

Dan K

well bad speakers arent too bad since I bet most people plan to use external ones. But how are the viewing angles?

well bad speakers arent too bad since I bet most people plan to use external ones. But how are the viewing angles?

Viewing angles are excellent. I'd say they are better than advertised. When I put my nose on one far end of the tv (top or side) I can still see what's on TV! I've never seen any viewing angles that approach that.

As far as the PC Monitor functionality of this system, I'd say it's perfect. I can't find any flaws with it. I'd go ahead and say if you're planning on plugging this thing into your PC and running it from there, and aren't too interested in using the built in speakers, just hit the buy button. You won't be dissapointed.

Dan K

well bad speakers arent too bad since I bet most people plan to use external ones. But how are the viewing angles?

I wasn't planning on using external speakers, but I certainly am now. I'm glad the included speakers are detachable.

Here's an avs review of the Pelican Pro: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=363624
According to the review it now comes with a remote. Sounds good!

That thread also says it might degrade signals above 480p. The damage may not be severe, but you might not want something like that to affect the performance (and your judgement) of a new 37" screen. :)

I have a few questions about this set:

1. What scaling/zooming options does this set have? Can it zoom in on a letterboxed 4:3 SD image to eliminate the black border? Does it accept a 4:3 480P input without stretching to 16:9?

2. What picture controls does the set offer? Does it have separate color decoder adjustments like on the Sharp LCDs? Are there separate picture settings for each input?

3. Any word on response time performance for fast moving images?

I just purchased the Logitech Z-5500 speaker set from Newegg. Received yesterday, fairly impressed so far. They are not expert audio level but for $300, pretty good. Dolby Digital / DTS decoder with digital input (coax or optical), 500 watt RMS (total), with great interface unit and remote. I intend to use with MCE and this TV when (I hope not "if") I get it.

Ordered on 20th, no ship confirm yet.

That thread also says it might degrade signals above 480p. The damage may not be severe, but you might not want something like that to affect the performance (and your judgement) of a new 37" screen. :)

Thanks for picking up something I missed!

And, too bad about the speakers. I wanted something I could use as is. However it does sound like the speakers could be DIYed into something acceptable.

Also: I, too, am interested in the scaling capabilities of 4:3 material. Some TVs have a "Panoramic" or Zoom setting(s). These can range from good to awful, IMO. How does the Sceptre fare?
Thanks.

I just got this email back from sceptre re: my question on why when using the ATSC tuner, the TV always shows 720p on the OSD.


Dear Customer,

All resolutions displayed are sent from the signals of the provider. If
they send tv signals in 720p then your 37" will display at 720p. The EPG is
just advertising what the channel "should" be displaying at. The tv info
tells you what the TV is "REALLY" displaying at. The television has no
upconversion schemes nor is there any way to change resolution since the
resolution is provided by the signal which it is received thru the provider.
Another way to test the 37" TV is thru your dvd player or a game console
such as xbox or playstation 2. A dvd player with component cables should
display at 480p if the dvd player has progressive scan. Most xbox games
should also display at 480p. Playstation 2 games should display at 480i I
think.

Best Regards,
Sceptre Technical Support Group


Junk response as usual from Sceptre. Like a playstation can test the ATSC tuner.... The same channels that I get in 1080 on my Divco Fusion5, and my HDTV Wonder, It says 720p on the scepter.

Dan K

Another quick question for the present owners (thanks btw!), if you have a PS2 hooked up with component inputs and the GT4 game, can you please play in 1080i mode and tell me what the panel selects for it's scaling. On the Westinghouse, it will scale to 1920x540. From all accounts it looks like the Sceptre will scale to 720p resolution, which is a bit better. I'm just trying to compare the electronics between the two, since they utilize the same lcd panel.

Heh, I can't wait to get my set, i'm gonna put it through all the stuff with 1080p WMV files and XBox in 720p and 480p hehe :D

Thanks for answering my question Dan, looks like i'll be able to throw my karaoke parties without any worries about people not being able to see the screen =)

I just purchased the Logitech Z-5500 speaker set from Newegg. Received yesterday, fairly impressed so far. They are not expert audio level but for $300, pretty good. Dolby Digital / DTS decoder with digital input (coax or optical), 500 watt RMS (total), with great interface unit and remote. I intend to use with MCE and this TV when (I hope not "if") I get it.

Ordered on 20th, no ship confirm yet.

Heh, that's the exact setup I have now :) I love those logitechs.. that interface unit totally beats having some huge amp sitting on a shelf somewhere. I have it on my end table next to the easyboy, always at hands reach. I purchased some cheap stands on ebay, and attached them to it. Was a lot of work. If you do the same, be warned that if you take off the bottom stands on those logitechs the nut holding the screw on will fall inside, and you'll have to take apart the whole speaker. The screws holding them together are behind the rubber grommets that are used to hold the grills on. also there is some really sticky double sided tape holding them together even after you take out the screws. Took me a couple of hours to put them all on stands but was worth it. Actually I think the center unit cant be put on a stand easily, I put it on the table thats below my TV anyways.

Dan K

Another quick question for the present owners (thanks btw!), if you have a PS2 hooked up with component inputs and the GT4 game, can you please play in 1080i mode and tell me what the panel selects for it's scaling. On the Westinghouse, it will scale to 1920x540. From all accounts it looks like the Sceptre will scale to 720p resolution, which is a bit better. I'm just trying to compare the electronics between the two, since they utilize the same lcd panel.

I don't have a PS2, but the set (so far as is presently known) only seems to scale ATSC tuner input to 720p. It doesn't appear to scale any other inputs.

Dan K

That thread also says it might degrade signals above 480p. The damage may not be severe, but you might not want something like that to affect the performance (and your judgement) of a new 37" screen. :)

I own the Pelican Pro and I see no degradation in signal quality with HD signals at 1080i or 720p. That switch has been a life saver for me the past year and a half, and at an amazingly low price. I'm even thinking of getting the new version that allows remote control.

My Sceptre is out for delivery right now, so it will arrive today. The only question is if I'll be home in time from work to pick it up.

I have a bunch of different test cases I can throw at it that will hopefully answer most of our questions.

+ HTPC DVD playback @ 1920x1080p
+ XBOX games @ 1080i/720p/480p
+ Gamecube games @ 480p
+ Comcast HDTV cable output @ 1080i/720p
+ NTSC SD @ 480i
+ ATSC HD @ 1080i/720p/ 480p (DTV)
+ QAM from undecoded cable

Hopefully I'll have answers tonight or tomorrow.

Maybe the internal tuner generates 720p on all channels, because it looks better that way. If the internal scaler converts 1080i to 540p before displaying it -- which I suspect -- then maybe the 720p will look better. If the picture looks better when the tuner converts 1080i to 720p and the scaler converts 720p to 1080p, than when the scaler converts 1080i to 540p to 1080p, then maybe they locked the tuner output at 720p for a reason.

Just wild speculation on my part. But on my Westinghouse, I have often thought 720p looked better than 1080i sources (ironically).

My Sceptre is out for delivery right now, so it will arrive today. The only question is if I'll be home in time from work to pick it up.

I have a bunch of different test cases I can throw at it that will hopefully answer most of our questions.

+ HTPC DVD playback @ 1920x1080p
+ XBOX games @ 1080i/720p/480p
+ Gamecube games @ 480p
+ Comcast HDTV cable output @ 1080i/720p
+ NTSC SD @ 480i
+ ATSC HD @ 1080i/720p/ 480p (DTV)
+ QAM from undecoded cable

Hopefully I'll have answers tonight or tomorrow.


Godspeed

Great! I am looking forward to your test results.

My Sceptre is out for delivery right now, so it will arrive today. The only question is if I'll be home in time from work to pick it up.

I have a bunch of different test cases I can throw at it that will hopefully answer most of our questions.

+ HTPC DVD playback @ 1920x1080p
+ XBOX games @ 1080i/720p/480p
+ Gamecube games @ 480p
+ Comcast HDTV cable output @ 1080i/720p
+ NTSC SD @ 480i
+ ATSC HD @ 1080i/720p/ 480p (DTV)
+ QAM from undecoded cable

Hopefully I'll have answers tonight or tomorrow.

My Sceptre is out for delivery right now, so it will arrive today. The only question is if I'll be home in time from work to pick it up.

If you miss your delivery attempt and have the tracking number, you can still pick it up from the UPS facility today. Just call them first by 5:30p (or after your delivery attempt) and ask for same day pickup. You have to be at the facility at a certain time (don't be late) but they'll pull it off the truck for you. Assuming your TV is being delivered to Sunnyvale, you won't have that much of a drive since their local facility is also in Sunnyvale, too.

Haha... I guess I want to see more reviews too.

Another quick question for the present owners (thanks btw!), if you have a PS2 hooked up with component inputs and the GT4 game, can you please play in 1080i mode and tell me what the panel selects for it's scaling. On the Westinghouse, it will scale to 1920x540. From all accounts it looks like the Sceptre will scale to 720p resolution, which is a bit better. I'm just trying to compare the electronics between the two, since they utilize the same lcd panel.

Well, I hooked up my XBOX via component inputs, ran XBOX Media Center, and ran it from 480i all the way through 1080i, and I have to say that it looked absolutely perfect in every resolution. I would say the Component inputs (and DVI inputs) are perfect in every way. 10 out of 10. There is no visible dot crawl, it doesn't look muddy even in 480i. The display correctly displays the resolution of each setting. It looks MUCH better than any other display I've used... really blows away my panasonic AE700 as that projector using the same inputs from this same xbox has dot crawl all over the place, and the 480p on that looks real muddy in comparison to this. I'd say that as a monitor for DVI and Component this set is flawless.

Dan K

I'd say that as a monitor for DVI and Component this set is flawless.

Woo-hoo! HTPC heaven here I come.

Ok.. Mine was delivered at home today. I plan to go and test it. I have few very basic questions. This is my first Flat Panel TV. I have a zenith 318B DVD Player. What else do I need to get the best HDTV experience. I will need to upgrade my COMCAST to get HDTV. What else can I do to test the TV.

I am going to use it primarily as a TV and not as a PC monitor although I might do that at times.

Great. Sounds like they figured out how to improve picture quality on the 1080P LCD panels. Tuners and speakers can be worked around. What do you guys think of the build quality ? (speakers aside) Do you think the power supply will be still cranking in 18 months ?
Any uneven banding on the backlights like the early Westinghouse sets ?

Actually... here's another question that wasn't answered:

How noisy is the unit? Does it have any fans in the back? Does it sound like a turbine running?

-eric

Well, I hooked up my XBOX via component inputs, ran XBOX Media Center, and ran it from 480i all the way through 1080i, and I have to say that it looked absolutely perfect in every resolution. I would say the Component inputs (and DVI inputs) are perfect in every way. 10 out of 10. There is no visible dot crawl, it doesn't look muddy even in 480i. The display correctly displays the resolution of each setting. It looks MUCH better than any other display I've used... really blows away my panasonic AE700 as that projector using the same inputs from this same xbox has dot crawl all over the place, and the 480p on that looks real muddy in comparison to this. I'd say that as a monitor for DVI and Component this set is flawless.

Dan K

Gratz on the set dkelly, Can you try some 720p games on xbox when you have the chance? Tony hawk series, xmen legends, amped 2, soul caliber 2, any of these would work. I'm new to 1080p but I have a Samsung LNR LCD and in 720p the games look gorgeous. Would this set upconvert 720p games to 1080p?? If so, how do the 720p games look when converted? Thanks again!! I'm jealous.

can you please tell if you see banding?

My Sceptre is out for delivery right now, so it will arrive today. The only question is if I'll be home in time from work to pick it up.

I have a bunch of different test cases I can throw at it that will hopefully answer most of our questions.

+ HTPC DVD playback @ 1920x1080p
+ XBOX games @ 1080i/720p/480p
+ Gamecube games @ 480p
+ Comcast HDTV cable output @ 1080i/720p
+ NTSC SD @ 480i
+ ATSC HD @ 1080i/720p/ 480p (DTV)
+ QAM from undecoded cable

Hopefully I'll have answers tonight or tomorrow.

I should also mention that the Sceptre is replacing a 34" CRT Direct-View HDTV, that has arguably the most stunning picture-quality and black-level perfomance compared to any other display technology. So I have been spoiled and naturally have very discriminating eyes because of it. I'm very curious to see how it compares.

Would this set upconvert 720p games to 1080p?? If so, how do the 720p games look when converted?

Remember, this set is natively 1080p, so everything has to be scaled to that resolution. The only way around that would be to use a limited number of the pixels and leave the rest of the screen as black.

Remember, this set is natively 1080p, so everything has to be scaled to that resolution. The only way around that would be to use a limited number of the pixels and leave the rest of the screen as black.


So if this set upconverts 720p games to 1080p, would the games look better upconverted? Or will they look better on my 720p native lnr238w lcd?

DanK and all:

I did mean EPG, and the resolution shown on the EPG varies by station on the ATSC. The speakers are absolute crap, for any display, but that is something we all can work around.

No banding on this set and I did see banding on a Westy ay Best Buy. There is a little dot crawl, but not noticeable beyond about 7 feet. I fed my NEC through a PS Audio power purifier and it made a big difference in noise, black levels etc. I have yet to try that with the Sceptre or even replace the power cord.

Finally, any suggestions for replacement of a stand with one that tilts and swivrls?

Jhellow

So if this set upconverts 720p games to 1080p, would the games look better upconverted? Or will they look better on my 720p native lnr238w lcd?

If your LCD is 768 vertical resolution, than it already has to do some minor scaling. A lot of it will depend on just how good the Sceptre scaler is. But even if the scaler is a good one, I would think that if the Sceptre were to look better than your 720p native lcd, it would be attributed to other factors than the scaler. Better black-levels, better response time, faithful reproduction of colors, etc. There's just so many factors that would contribute to the quality of the picture that the fact that it has to scale 720p to 1080p is not enough to determine whether it'd be better or worse.

Has anyone tested to see if there is any vertical banding like this westy has on its ends. Vertical banding (http://community.webshots.com/photo/360490703/363956963srfGDg)

It's definitely NOT scaling the HDMI input. It's definitely 1:1 pixel mapping.

After you play with the set for a bit, you realize that this set is actually 4 components.

1 - 1920x1080 Monitor just like on your PC.
2 - Computer that ties it all together, and runs the monitor, controlling contrast, brightness, backlight, remote control, source switching, OSD, aspect ratio.
3 - NTSC Tuner that's closely integrated with 2, possibly built into 2. It's completely controlled by 2.
4 - ATSC Tuner that's not closely integrated, basically its like having an external tuner with EPG that's on a 720p input into 2, this Tuner has it's own computer, and it's own settings and gui and look and feel. When you change channels, 2 doesnt even know what channel you're on, its just saying 720p, so the EPG thats built into the ATSC tuner pops up and tells you the channel info. When you select zoom aspect ratio, the ATSC tuner doesnt even know you've zoomed and it's EPG is zoomed off screen lol.

Dan K
No need for a block diagram. Yes, the display does perform 1:1 mapping with 1920*1080 60fps PROGRESSIVE digital (DVI with no HDCP) computer sources.
Note that since the PQ is so good from a PC, the video range is obviously (0-255), just as expected.

Who cares much about 720p sources (after all, this is a 1920*1080 progressive monitor). LCDs display their best PQ ONLY at their native resolution.

The real question is how does the monitor handle 1080i interlace broadcast signals?
You have already answered how the displays internal tuner and scalar circuitry needlessly converts a 1920*1080i interlaced broadcast signal to 1280*720p progressive signal, deinterlaces them, and then converts back up to 1920*1080 progressive. The problem is that a lot of perfectly good picture data is being tossed out. This is really a hack or band-aid solution.

Remember that external cable or satellite receivers can pass thru native 1080i sources with 1:1 mapping. I rent one that has an HDMI output. But this probably won't work either, as external 1080i sources are no doubt also converted to 720p then rescaled to 1080p for display. On top of this the digital level will probably be mismatched.

The whole issue is that there are no inexpensive 1080i to 1080p deinterlacer chips available today. We have to wait for the technology companies like Genesis to release this type of full rez 1080p deinterlacers. How about next year?

Has anyone tested to see if there is any vertical banding like this westy has on its ends. Vertical banding (http://community.webshots.com/photo/360490703/363956963srfGDg)

2 posts above yours

2 posts above yours

Oh I didn't see that, Thanks.

DanK and all:

I did mean EPG, and the resolution shown on the EPG varies by station on the ATSC. The speakers are absolute crap, for any display, but that is something we all can work around.

No banding on this set and I did see banding on a Westy ay Best Buy. There is a little dot crawl, but not noticeable beyond about 7 feet. I fed my NEC through a PS Audio power purifier and it made a big difference in noise, black levels etc. I have yet to try that with the Sceptre or even replace the power cord.

Finally, any suggestions for replacement of a stand with one that tilts and swivrls?

Jhellow

dot crawl?

Oh I didn't see that, Thanks.

I think I've studied every square inch of this thread multiple times in anticipation of my new LCD TV :)

dot crawl?
Here is the current 1920*1080i to 1920*1080p deinterlacer you really desire, but at a price you should not ask:
http://www.meridian-audio.com/faroudja/prod_dvp-1080.html

Remember that external cable or satellite receivers can pass thru native 1080i sources with 1:1 mapping. I rent one that has an HDMI output. But this probably won't work either, as external 1080i sources are no doubt also converted to 720p then rescaled to 1080p for display. On top of this the digital level will probably be mismatched.

And again, how do you come to the conclusion that the HDMI input can't take a true native 1080i signal? It's pretty clear from all the posters that received the unit that the only input that's got a problem with 1080i is the ATSC Tuner, which has it's own circuitry for scaling and deinterlacing. And actually, only Dan seems to have this problem. There's no information that was provided to us that the component or the HDMI inputs had this problem.

Anyways, mine's coming tomorrow... so I'll be able to confirm all of this. I'll also provide a pretty complete review (I've got a Spyder2 Pro that I'll use for color metrics).

-eric

Here is the current 1920*1080i to 1920*1080p deinterlacer you really desire, but at a price you should not ask:
http://www.meridian-audio.com/faroudja/prod_dvp-1080.html

Actually... the DVDO iScan HD+ does a decent job at upconverting everything to 1080p at a small fraction of the price: http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_ishdplus.php. And of course their new model is even nicer :) http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp30_io.php (4 HDMI!! :D ). In other words, IMHO, I don't think people buying a $2k LCD displays need to look at a $6k deinterlacer solution. :)

-eric

would someone mind taking 5-7MP picture of the front, front angle & and side and sending to my e-mail account (dkreviews@hotmail.com), I'll upload to my site and post a link here

Here is the current 1920*1080i to 1920*1080p deinterlacer you really desire, but at a price you should not ask:
http://www.meridian-audio.com/faroudja/prod_dvp-1080.html

It sounds that dkelly is stating that the Sceptre showed the input as 1080i on the OSD when he played his Xbox at 1080i through the component input. So apparently this limitation of 1080i->720p->1080p is limited to the ATSC tuner. It's absurd to me, but all together possible that they decided to keep costs down and use the same ATSC tuner that they use in their 720p LCD sets.

Cheap 1080i, 60 fields/sec to 1080p, 60 frames/sec. deincterlacing is very easy to do. They could simply combine the odd/even fields and construct 30 frames/sec. and repeat each one to make 60 frames/sec. It's not the most elegant solution, but at least you don't lose any resolution and I'm sure it'd be better than going down to 720p and back up to 1080p. But perhaps the combing effect of simply combining the odd/even fields would be too disturbing. But if they are doing something other than 1080i->720p->1080p with 1080i over component inputs, then it would have been nice if they could have employed a similar method for 1080i ATSC.

But then again, maybe they actually are converting all interlaced material to 720p first before going to 1080p. Maybe this conversion does in fact create better picture quality than the cheap solution I described above, and perhaps a sophisticated 1080i->1080p scaler is much too expensive. I can only hope they considered all options and implemented the best solution at the target cost.

Actually... here's another question that wasn't answered:

How noisy is the unit? Does it have any fans in the back? Does it sound like a turbine running?

-eric

It's silent. It does have some heat rising out of it though if you put your face over the vents in the back you'll definitely feel it :)

I did notice some extranious sound coming out of the speakers when I had a cable plugged in in DVI mode and not into my PC... kinda expected... I can't reproduce any of that now though.

DaN K

Thanks for the info Dan. This is good news. The last revision of the 30" TV Sceptre offered was plagued by a major fan noise problem. I'm glad to hear that this won't be an issue on this unit.

-eric

DanK and all:

I did mean EPG, and the resolution shown on the EPG varies by station on the ATSC. The speakers are absolute crap, for any display, but that is something we all can work around.

No banding on this set and I did see banding on a Westy ay Best Buy. There is a little dot crawl, but not noticeable beyond about 7 feet. I fed my NEC through a PS Audio power purifier and it made a big difference in noise, black levels etc. I have yet to try that with the Sceptre or even replace the power cord.

Finally, any suggestions for replacement of a stand with one that tilts and swivrls?

Jhellow

Yeah I agree about the speakers... at first when I tried them on TV it wasnt bad but now I'm of the opinion that they are just total crap. like the kind you get built into your PC to BEEP when you boot up. I think that someone could open them up and replace the actual speakers with something better, but I'm not sure that the amp in the unit isn't crap as well. Whenever I dig up my externals for this unit I'll hook them directly to where the built in speakers hook up and test that hypothesis.

I guess I'm lucky about the dot crawl, I can't see any, even from 2-3" away. I do have a really expensive and really short gold cable going from the xbox though so that may make a difference, but then again the same box/cable on my Panny AE700 has dot crawl all over the place.

I havn't done anything with power or adjusting my set either. I really don't see any reason to at the moment.

last night at 2am when it was pitch black, I had the lamp on 0, and it was still a little bright for my taste... that may be my only minor complaint. But hay, that's better than being to dark at full brightness like the rest of my LCD experience.

As for the stand... Originally I was dissapointed it didn't tilt or swivel... but the viewing angle is so ungodly great that now I'm thinking it's a non issue. However I'd love to replace it with a stand that didn't look so cheap. It's like they took the cad model for their cheap 15" lcd stand and resized it and went with it. If you find anything keep us informed :)

Dan K

Has anyone tested to see if there is any vertical banding like this westy has on its ends. Vertical banding (http://community.webshots.com/photo/360490703/363956963srfGDg)

Mine doesnt' have anything like that. There may be a tiny bit of excess brightness around the edges... but It's nothing like that.

Dan K

Remember that external cable or satellite receivers can pass thru native 1080i sources with 1:1 mapping. I rent one that has an HDMI output. But this probably won't work either, as external 1080i sources are no doubt also converted to 720p then rescaled to 1080p for display. On top of this the digital level will probably be mismatched.

The whole issue is that there are no inexpensive 1080i to 1080p deinterlacer chips available today. We have to wait for the technology companies like Genesis to release this type of full rez 1080p deinterlacers. How about next year?

No, I think you've got it wrong. It does handle HDMI and Component 1080p natively, no conversion.

The issue is (I think) that the ATSC tuner chip they have is a cheap unit designed for a 720p display. It only outputs 720p so it's just plugged into the unit as a 720p source... that's why 1080i gets rescaled to 720p. Having said that... The sceptre guy just responded to me saying that the 720p on the display is a bug... the engineers are researching that and are supposed to get back to me, I'll post the whole response in a sec.

Dan K

dot crawl?

Plug in your xbox or something with a static image and bright colors. Around the edges of the bright colors you'll see dots crawling around.

Dan K

Here is the current 1920*1080i to 1920*1080p deinterlacer you really desire, but at a price you should not ask:
http://www.meridian-audio.com/faroudja/prod_dvp-1080.html

The Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX supports 1080i Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing, which is not pixel by pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing, but it is very close and is suppose to do a very good job of converting from 1080i to 1080p. It is much less expensive, but it only works in an HTPC environment. You cannot feed your HD Tivo into your computer and have it spit out 1080p for you. Someone needs to stick this affordable technology into an external video processor -- or better yet into one of these cheap panels. I would gladly pay an extra $500 to $750 to get real 1080i deinterlacing. DVDO is still bobbing and scaling. They are not doing true deinterlacing of 1080i -- even on their new unit.

Dear Customer,

I just had a long talk with the R&D guy. This seems to be a bug of some
sort. Because the screen is definitely displaying at the resolution
according to the EPG but the tuner is not showing that it is displaying the
resolution. I was able to reproduce the problem for him, thanks to your
description. So, the R&D department is looking this problem at this time.
When a fix is available, I will notify you. Thanks.

Best Regards,
Sceptre Technical Support Group


Herm... I'm cynical and believe that in their view the bug is that they dont hide from the user that it is in fact scaling to 720p. The EPG on every other set I've seen displays what the signal is broadcasted/received in, not what it's output in.

It'll be interesting to see what this brings up... and if "a fix is available" how it gets into my set :) And if the fix is applied, does the picture look one bit different.

Dan K

Having said that... The sceptre guy just responded to me saying that the 720p on the display is a bug... the engineers are researching that and are supposed to get back to me, I'll post the whole response in a sec.

Dan K


Sweet. If that's true then it sounds like the biggest problem with this tv might be the speaker quality.

The Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX supports 1080i Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing, which is not pixel by pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing, but it is very close and is suppose to do a very good job of converting from 1080i to 1080p. It is much less expensive, but it only works in an HTPC environment. You cannot feed your HD Tivo into your computer and have it spit out 1080p for you. Someone needs to stick this affordable technology into an external video processor -- or better yet into one of these cheap panels. I would gladly pay an extra $500 to $750 to get real 1080i deinterlacing. DVDO is still bobbing and scaling. They are not doing true deinterlacing of 1080i -- even on their new unit.

Well, I thought the set looked great with the 1080i from the xbox. I see no real reason to get any external solution... others may have more descriminating tastes than I do however... I'm interested in seeing what the "hard to please" customers think when they get this unit.

Dan K

Herm... I'm cynical and believe that in their view the bug is that they dont hide from the user that it is in fact scaling to 720p. The EPG on every other set I've seen displays what the signal is broadcasted/received in, not what it's output in.

It'll be interesting to see what this brings up... and if "a fix is available" how it gets into my set :) And if the fix is applied, does the picture look one bit different.

Dan K

haha...I like that cynical attitude. You're right though, it certainly makes you wonder if they really are doing that conversion but wanted to display the original input format and not what they are actually converting it to first. I would hope they realize they'd have a nice class-action lawsuit on their hands if they were deceitful, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt right now.

Does the unit have some serial, RS-232 input or some other data interface? That'd be one way they could upgrade the unit.

But if what they say is true, then the update would merely display the correct input format and would not change the picture in anyway.

and if "a fix is available" how it gets into my set :)
Dan K

Anyone want to comment on that?

Ordered mine 19 Aug, and looking forward to hooking it up. Sounds geat from the reviews.


n6fat
San Diego

Anyone want to comment on that?



If the fix is just the OSD showing you 720p vs. 1080i for input over the ATSC tuner, does it really matter? The EPG already tells you that information.

If the fix is just the OSD showing you 720p vs. 1080i for input over the ATSC tuner, does it really matter? The EPG already tells you that information.

Sure, but I was just wondering if the firmware is upgradeable

awesome!!! got shipping confirmation, ordered 19th

so basically the verdict, great performance in el cheapo design!

Got my shipping confirmation - ordered on the 20th.

Speaking of the speakers... How do they sound? I had a 20.1" Sceptre PC monitor with built-in speakers that sounded awful. I'm hoping Sceptre spent a few more bucks on the speakers for this 37".

The speakers sound poor, but I've upped my treble which helps.

My Sony CRT sounds much better than the Sceptre.

I'm really wondering if one could get to the optical ouput on the tuner card...that is supposedly mounted there, and connect to a stereo receiver's optical input for Dolby Digital.

No need for a block diagram. Yes, the display does perform 1:1 mapping with 1920*1080 60fps PROGRESSIVE digital (DVI with no HDCP) computer sources.
Note that since the PQ is so good from a PC, the video range is obviously (0-255), just as expected.

Who cares much about 720p sources (after all, this is a 1920*1080 progressive monitor). LCDs display their best PQ ONLY at their native resolution.

The real question is how does the monitor handle 1080i interlace broadcast signals?
You have already answered how the displays internal tuner and scalar circuitry needlessly converts a 1920*1080i interlaced broadcast signal to 1280*720p progressive signal, deinterlaces them, and then converts back up to 1920*1080 progressive. The problem is that a lot of perfectly good picture data is being tossed out. This is really a hack or band-aid solution.

Remember that external cable or satellite receivers can pass thru native 1080i sources with 1:1 mapping. I rent one that has an HDMI output. But this probably won't work either, as external 1080i sources are no doubt also converted to 720p then rescaled to 1080p for display. On top of this the digital level will probably be mismatched.

The whole issue is that there are no inexpensive 1080i to 1080p deinterlacer chips available today. We have to wait for the technology companies like Genesis to release this type of full rez 1080p deinterlacers. How about next year?


I hate to say this but you are so full of it. You don't have this unit and just from one person saying that he's seeing 720P from a supposedly 1080i OTA TV source (while another said he have no problem getting 1080i OTA siurce to display in 1080i) that you have come up with all these suppositions. What a bunch of bull.

Sure, but I was just wondering if the firmware is upgradeable

I hope it is. I'm not happy with the video presets....Cinema...Sports...Nature....etc.
They're all factory set with too much chroma, and much too much green, at least on mine.

You can't change them...except for one, labeled USER, which I've made look very good. My Sony's video presets were all user adjustable....I wish these were.

There are other issues too.

The FAVORITES on the remote don't change channels, but instead take you to the menu. Same menu wheather you hit Favorite UP or DOWN.

12PM shows as 12 AM....but once the time gets to 1PM it shows 1PM. Strange, unless it's getting bad info from local stations???

Sometimes you hit Volume UP or DOWN, and it sees the remote, but the volume will never change. Tried a learning remote too....same problem.

Sure, but I was just wondering if the firmware is upgradeable


Not sure. Don't see why you couldn't upload something over the dvi port from a computer. (If they set it up that way).

Not sure. Don't see why you couldn't upload something over the dvi port from a computer. (If they set it up that way).

Why bother doing it yourself. If they did produce a firmware upgraded unit. Just take it back to Costco and ask for a new one ;-)

I hate to say this but you are so full of it. You don't have this unit and just from one person saying that he's seeing 720P from a supposedly 1080i OTA TV source (while another said he have no problem getting 1080i OTA siurce to display in 1080i) that you have come up with all these suppositions. What a bunch of bull.

I am having the same problem with the tuner's output coming in at 720p. I wouldn't have even looked for it, unless R Kelly had mentioned it last night. It makes no difference what the broadcast signal is....the input shows 720p.

I hope it is. I'm not happy with the video presets....Cinema...Sports...Nature....etc.
They're all factory set with too much chroma, and much too much green, at least on mine.

You can't change them...except for one, labeled USER, which I've made look very good. My Sony's video presets were all user adjustable....I wish these were.

There are other issues too.

The FAVORITES on the remote don't change channels, but instead take you to the menu. Same menu wheather you hit Favorite UP or DOWN.

12PM shows as 12 AM....but once the time gets to 1PM it shows 1PM. Strange, unless it's getting bad info from local stations???

Sometimes you hit Volume UP or DOWN, and it sees the remote, but the volume will never change. Tried a learning remote too....same problem.

Yeah the user interface seems amateurish. I think the best way to enjoy this set is to hook it up to your PC via HDMI, and throw away the remote and speakers... buy a Fusion Divco5 for HDTV, and run Media Center.

Although I havnt experienced the vol up/dn problem you have.

By the way, do you use any software or product to do the color adjustments?

Dan K

I got shipping confirmation. Ordered on the 21st.

I am having the same problem with the tuner's output coming in at 720p. I wouldn't have even looked for it, unless R Kelly had mentioned it last night. It makes no difference what the broadcast signal is....the input shows 720p.

This is an interesting problem with you and DK having the 720P problem while Jhollow say his is fine with 1080i ota source. I guess we'll have to wait for a few more to arrive so we can get to the bottom of this problem so those sitting on the fences can get in before the sales is over.

However. My main point is that he's making all the other supposition just from this one problem.

Hi all:

When I change my source to DTV, the information in the upper left corner of the screen indicates DTV 720P. When I select Channel 4-1, a 1080i broadcast, and press the "info" button, program information indicates a 1080i signal. If I do the same with FOX, "info" indicates a 720P signal. So is everything being res's at 720 P for the ATSC input or what?

JHellow

...............

Here's the latest email from Sceptre:


Dear Customer,

Ok the R&D guys says they tested out a sample of the 37". The resolution is
actually what the EPG says, just that when the PIP button was pressed, the
information of 720p was displayed. So functional wise you're fine. Just
that the message is wrong.

Best Regards,
Sceptre Technical Support Group



I'm not too sure I believe this... I mean they have alot of motivation not to admit that their DTV doesn't really do 1080 as advertised. It'll be interesting to see what the consensus is about the quality of displayed 1080i DTV when everyone gets theirs.

Dan K

Dan, I'm pretty confident with Sceptre's e-mail there. I don't have my unit yet (shipped today, sweet), and I really can't wait to get a look at it. I think it's probably more likely that there's just a little software glitch that's displaying incorrectly - I admit, we'll have to wait and see someone really compare displays. But I'm optomistic that it's showing the right picture and displaying the wrong label.

Yeah the user interface seems amateurish. I think the best way to enjoy this set is to hook it up to your PC via HDMI, and throw away the remote and speakers... buy a Fusion Divco5 for HDTV, and run Media Center.

Although I havnt experienced the vol up/dn problem you have.

By the way, do you use any software or product to do the color adjustments?

Dan K

Yep, some of the interface 'does' seem amateurish....thrown together in time to get it out the door?

Well, I didn't really want to turn on the PC every time I wanted to watch TV... I used to watch DVD's from the computer's output, and it got to be a pain. If I did anything, I'd buy the Sony DHG-HDD250 High-Definition Digital Video Recorder with ATSC tuner....as cheap as $600 for the 250 online.


If I can get to the Sceptre's optical output, I'll run it to my Receiver....otherwise I'll use the RCA outs and have Analog surround I guess. OR, use the Sony mentioned above, which has optical output.

BTW the speakers seem to have that typical 'Cheap TV buzz' sometimes....especially with the surrond options turned on.

I'm only using my eyes to adjust the color, but's obvious to me that it's presets are not natural, especially the facial tones. Yeah, lots of people like over saturated chroma....but I want it to look real. I wish there was some way to adjust the factory presents though. At least there is the USER preset.

Yep, some of the interface 'does' seem amateurish....thrown together in time to get it out the door?

Well, I didn't really want to turn on the PC every time I wanted to watch TV... I used to watch DVD's from the computer's output, and it got to be a pain. If I did anything, I'd buy the Sony DHG-HDD250 High-Definition Digital Video Recorder with ATSC tuner....as cheap as $600 for the 250 online.


If I can get to the Sceptre's optical output, I'll run it to my Receiver....otherwise I'll use the RCA outs and have Analog surround I guess. OR, use the Sony mentioned above, which has optical output.

BTW the speakers seem to have that typical 'Cheap TV buzz' sometimes....especially with the surrond options turned on.

I'm only using my eyes to adjust the color, but's obvious to me that it's presets are not natural, especially the facial tones. Yeah, lots of people like over saturated chroma....but I want it to look real. I wish there was some way to adjust the factory presents though. At least there is the USER preset.


This is where the Dual DVI of the Westinghouse pays off, Unless your not going to have your PC connected to the HDMI port like most would want as I have the Sony HDD500 HD recorder hooked to one DVI and my PC on the other DVI. I guess if your not that picky about having Digital in for the PC then the VGA port might do on the Sceptre.

I'm only using my eyes to adjust the color, but's obvious to me that it's presets are not natural, especially the facial tones. Yeah, lots of people like over saturated chroma....but I want it to look real. I wish there was some way to adjust the factory presents though. At least there is the USER preset.

I don't suppose there is a Service menu that could change these defaults?

Keep the observations coming coming guys and THANKS for them. :)
We, on the fence, have until the 28th to make our move - if there are any left. :eek:

i have 32 inch Syntax Olevia tv and i want to compare both budget tvs...

can you please tell if you see banding?

I got the set yesterday.I have only hooked up my panny xp50 so far and NO BANDING SO FAR. I'm going to hook up my computer tonight and check for pixel problems.I just don't want to fall in love to fast with this set, but looks great. :D

Dan, I'm pretty confident with Sceptre's e-mail there. I don't have my unit yet (shipped today, sweet), and I really can't wait to get a look at it. I think it's probably more likely that there's just a little software glitch that's displaying incorrectly - I admit, we'll have to wait and see someone really compare displays. But I'm optomistic that it's showing the right picture and displaying the wrong label.

I'd be more inclined to agree with DKelley. I think the main processor is telling us exactly what the (supposed) Zinwell tuner card is sending it. But who knows.

Someone had suggested that this was the tuner used;
http://www.zinwell.com.tw/Products/pdf/ZAT-520MB.pdf

It shows outputs at both 720p and 1080i

I'm tempted to open the case and see if it has the SPDIF output too.

This is where the Dual DVI of the Westinghouse pays off, Unless your not going to have your PC connected to the HDMI port like most would want as I have the Sony HDD500 HD recorder hooked to one DVI and my PC on the other DVI. I guess if your not that picky about having Digital in for the PC then the VGA port might do on the Sceptre.

Yep....I'll be back there switching DVI cables all day long. :) You'd really think they'd give us more HDMI ports, and less S-Video/composites. Why would anyone buy a true HD panel, and use S-Video or worse composite?

Wonder what a DVI switcher costs? Obviously much more than a Component switcher. How do you like your HDD500? I'm thinking of the 250.

I don't suppose there is a Service menu that could change these defaults?

Keep the observations coming coming guys and THANKS for them. :)
We, on the fence, have until the 28th to make our move - if there are any left. :eek:

There probably is. We just need some tech from Sceptre to tell us how to get to it.
Wonder if it does firmware updates through some hidden port? :confused:

this is a true HD TV right and just not a HDTV monitor?

I can't believe that 1080i would be scaled to 720p, that would make the 1080 line display useless--it would look better at 720 lines!

Hi all:

When I change my source to DTV, the information in the upper left corner of the screen indicates DTV 720P. When I select Channel 4-1, a 1080i broadcast, and press the "info" button, program information indicates a 1080i signal. If I do the same with FOX, "info" indicates a 720P signal. So is everything being res's at 720 P for the ATSC input or what?

JHellow

Same here. HDMI and HDCP show 1792X1008, fed a 108i signal from the Zenith HD SAt520.

Thank you very much

Fury

Why would anyone buy a true HD panel, and use S-Video

Because I'm not sure I can live without my TiVo, and the HDTiVo won't be available until mid 2006 (can't get DirecTV where I live) :(

I won't claim to know what this TV is doing to scale 1080i ATSC input to the display, but I wouldn't be surprised if the tuner does output as 720p and then scale to 1080p.

Even though at first sight it seems not that difficult, deinterlacing and scaling is a pretty complicated process. When you start working with brand new (not that common) 1080P panels that are marketed at this price range (low / value) chances are it is using the more affordable scaling chips that expect 720P input.

Even 720P displays do funny things when you input say a 1080i signal to them, such as scale them down to 540p, then up to 720p.

I agree with the other poster that said, proper 1080i to 1080p scaling technology probably costs more than this entire TV does.

I also agree with the poster that said they engineers probably took the most affordable approach that didn't compromise quality. I.e. they might have been able to do a hack scale of 1080i to 1080p (like combine then double the frames) but it probably just didn't look as good as whatever technique they ended up using.


Long post short... for those of you complaining that this set might not deinterlace a 1080i ATSC signal directly to 1080p, I don't think you should. The way I look at it, this set is a great bargin even if it didn't have an ATSC tuner built in.


On a side note... has anyone hooked this to a cable connection to see if you can pull in unencrypted QAM64 cable HDTV channels (locals)?

Yep....I'll be back there switching DVI cables all day long. :) You'd really think they'd give us more HDMI ports, and less S-Video/composites. Why would anyone buy a true HD panel, and use S-Video or worse composite?

Wonder what a DVI switcher costs? Obviously much more than a Component switcher. How do you like your HDD500? I'm thinking of the 250.

Well, you can get a 2x1 for about $191 or a 4x1 for $268 if you are willing to sign up for a Buy.com Visa card. See here:

http://www.buy.com/retail/searchresults.asp?qu=Gefen+HDMI+Switcher&search_store=8

I can't believe that 1080i would be scaled to 720p, that would make the 1080 line display useless--it would look better at 720 lines!

Not so fast. The panel probably sees 1080i as 540p. So, 720p might actually be better than 1080i on this display. I know it is counter intuitive, but deinterlacing 1080i is problematic.

It arrived!
dkelly or others: Is the DVI cable the one that has two very different ends?

If so, is that a proprietary plug at the monitor end, and thus I won't be able easlily to buy a longer one at an electronics store?

Thanks fellows. I'll be ready to answer questions after I get this hooked up.

It arrived!
dkelly or others: Is the DVI cable the one that has two very different ends?

If so, is that a proprietary plug at the monitor end, and thus I won't be able easlily to buy a longer one at an electronics store?

Thanks fellows. I'll be ready to answer questions after I get this hooked up.


What you get is a DVI to HDMI Cable which should be readily available at most Radioshack or Electronics store at up to 12 ft long but it will cost you about $50-60.

It arrived!
dkelly or others: Is the DVI cable the one that has two very different ends?

If so, is that a proprietary plug at the monitor end, and thus I won't be able easlily to buy a longer one at an electronics store?

Nope not proprietary.....just HDMI. It's your HDMI to DVI cable. Now we just need DVI extensions....3' isn't long enough to reach my PC :)

I should also mention that the Sceptre is replacing a 34" CRT Direct-View HDTV, that has arguably the most stunning picture-quality and black-level perfomance compared to any other display technology. So I have been spoiled and naturally have very discriminating eyes because of it. I'm very curious to see how it compares.

OK, well I got my Sceptre tonight and I'm testing it out as best I can. I'm in the process of moving, so I can't try out everything I'd like until this weekend.

Initial Impressions
First thing I threw at it was Comcast digital cable. My initial reaction was "man this picture is poor". Again, I'm coming from an HDTV CRT so I've been very spoiled. But after playing with the settings, I'm very satisfied. Is it as good as the CRT? No. No other display technology is. Everything has its tradeoffs, and I'm willing to take the slight hit in picture quality so I can have a larger screen size, a much thinner and lighter TV, and it's great that I don't have to worry about overscan. Plus, I believe your eyes quickly adjust to the LCD. Just as I was amazed by the quality of HDTV when I first saw it on my CRT, I am beginning to appreciate just how gorgeous the picture is on this LCD.

vs. Plasma
I must say, everytime I've seen an LCD on display at a store I was never impressed with the picture quality. I've also always felt that the plasmas looked better. This LCD TV has as good a picture as a plasma and has the benefits of having native 1920x1080 resolution and no issues of burn-in.

Black-Levels
I was most worried about the black-level, or contrast, performance of this TV. I must say, I'm very impressed by this TV's black-levels. Blacks don't look dark gray, and you can make out detail in dark areas. Not as good as my old CRT of course, but suprisingly close.

SD quality
Quality of standard definition broadcasts certainly don't look particularly good, but then again neither did they on my 34" CRT HDTV. If you're expecting it to look as good as it does on your 20" CRT, then you'll be disappointed. But considering that all HD displays don't display SD particularly well, I'm more than content with the quality of its SD display.

Negatives of PQ
There are two issues I see with the picture quality. One is the dot crawl. I've always noticed this with displays at the stores. It's certainly no worse than what I remember seeing at the stores, but it is something I wish were improved upon. I'm thinking that my setup may be influencing this noise however. As I said, I am in the process of moving, so I have wires running all over the place, and my component cables aren't exactly the best quality. I'd imagine that with better sheilding I could improve on this. I'm curious to hear what others suggest for reducing the dot crawl. I recall someone saying that even using a high quality power cord can help.

The other thing I'm noticing is some chroma bleeding, or a rainbow effect on edges. It's not terribly noticable, and is only present in some material, but this is actually my biggest concern. I'm hopeful that an improvement in cables and my setup can improve this, but I would consider returning it because of this shortcoming alone. I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing this, and what are some ways that I could reduce this effect.

EDIT: I only noticed this with the HDMI input. But it turns out I was using the wrong input selection when I had it hooked up to my PC. There is now no longer any chroma bleeding what-so-ever. It is remarkable just how good this thing looks now.

Another reason I'm convinced my poor setup is partly to blame for these faults is that I even noticed ghosting on a 1080i Xbox game.

Although I'm very pleased with the colors of the display, another complaint is that there's no way to change the red,green,blue contribution. You can only select one of 3 settings (low,medium,high) for blue and green (not red).

EDIT: Seems with the DVI input selection, you can adjust R,G,B gain individually. Things are looking much better now.

Test Inputs
Despite the shortcomings I mentioned, I'm sitting here watching The Aviator in 1920x1080p from my HTPC (over the DVI/HDMI input), and it is pretty breathtaking. The PQ of the LCD as a computer monitor is simply amazing, and the Sceptre correctly shows 1080p.

Xbox at 1080i and 480p looked quite nice. The monitor correctly displayed the resolution that was sent to it.

Cable TV looked good as well, with the HD content looking superb. One thing about an LCD versus a CRT is that an LCD is less forgiving. Garbage-in, garbage-out. If you feed it a poor quality input, imperfections will be more discernable. High quality input on the other hand looks spectacular!

Overall Impressions
Overall I'm very happy with the display. So much in fact that I'm willing to part ways with my bulky 34" CRT HDTV and replace it with the Sceptre as my primary TV. If I can resolve some of the chroma bleeding I'm experiencing that it's a clear-cut winner. After I move this weekend, and I improve on my setup, I am hopeful this will improve. I'll be happy to answer any questions you guys may have.

Not so fast. The panel probably sees 1080i as 540p. So, 720p might actually be better than 1080i on this display. I know it is counter intuitive, but deinterlacing 1080i is problematic.

Actually, I BEG to differ on this.

Going from 540p -> 720p isn't an improvement... it's a major loss, especially if you need to rescale back again to 1080p. Let's not forget that 540p is still providing 1920 pixels of resolution per line, while 720p is only 1280. Which means that you lose more or less half of your resolution going from 540p -> 720p, while adding temporal distortion when the 1080i signal was originally transformed to 540p. And then, the signal would need to be rescaled again from 720p to 1080p to be displayed.

I sure can believe that they would have cut corners and BOB the signal from 1080i to 540p. But thinking that going through 1080i -> 540p -> 720p -> 1080p transformations because supposedly 1080i -> 1080p is too expensive is stretching it a lot.

-eric

I.e. they might have been able to do a hack scale of 1080i to 1080p (like combine then double the frames) but it probably just didn't look as good as whatever technique they ended up using.


How is that a hack? That's exactly how progressive scan dvd players deinterlace 480i to 480p.

Thanks Nathan & Wiz,
Wow, what a great monitor. My jpegs look great. And, my biggest worry--that the resolution would be too great, and thus the text too small at 80" viewing distance--doesn't seem to be much of a problem with the dpi set to 120%. Five feet is quite nice for PC monitor use.
One abberant pixel that is annoying only when that area is black--it's always green. Only noticed it during a DVD movie, no problem with normal PC use.
I'm thinking this is a keeper.
Thanks for all your past help guys. Richard

Great review Benny,

I'm suprised you (and someone else) reported dot crawl. Using the xbox with a static display, I searched and searched, in every resolution for dot crawl (it annoys me probably more than anything else) and I found the set to be totally rock solid. Might as well be a painting. I don't have particularly good power either, this unit is plugged into a power strip thats plugged into another power strip, and I'm on the top floor of my apartment complex (5th floor) so theres a long run to the mains. I'd guess that it's more likely interference or cables or perhaps the quality varies from unit to unit. As for chroma bleeding and ghosting, I do see it on some DTV channels, and not others, I dont see any whatsoever on PC /XBOX. I attribute the bleeding/ghosting on DTV channels to the horrifically bad upscalers / a->d converters that the local station(s) are using because some stations come in without any bleeding at all, and stations that are transmitting native hi def signals I havn't noticed any bleeding.

I'm also suprised that you don't feel the DVI /PC picture quality is superb... What brand video card are you using?

Sounds like you're overall happy with the unit... thats great to hear :) I am pretty happy myself. I was expecting some dim unit with muddy blacks, and poor DVI support, with low viewing angles... I couldn't have been more wrong.

Did you bother to hook up the speakers?

Dan K

wow it looks like besides some cutting corners this set is a real winner O.o, much better concensus than my 42" vizio plasma was. I hope the dark levels are better too :D

I have a different question for you guys, Do you think I can fit it in the back seat of my sedan (2005 Altima). I was not able to fit my 42" plasma box in there but I'm hoping I can fit this tv in there.

I now need to mount this unit and do not want to use the Peerless bracket Costco carries (It's ~3" thick). I need this real flush to the wall. I think I can make my own. I just need to know what the screw size is for those 4 threaded holes on the back. Anyone know?

How is that a hack? That's exactly how progressive scan dvd players deinterlace 480i to 480p.

Well, there are a million ways to skin that cat. He described the absolute cheapest way. technically that's not even BOB (doesnt average lines below and above to fill in, it only doubles lines). It's also a hack because it doesn't mention pulldown. Deinterlacing without pulldown is horrific. There's actually a whole science to deinterlacing. This set does advertise 3:2 pulldown, but not that that means much, because it advertises 1080i TV as well. If your progressive scan DVD player only doubles lines/frames, then I'd take it back :) "only doubling lines" by definition halves your vertical resolution.

Read the deinterlacing bible:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

Especially the section "Deinterlacing Other Sources" and on. I read the whole thing but it took all day lol

Dan K

For those wondering about QAM support: It doesn't appear to be enabled, or at least doing a scan on my Comcast feed produced no channels. The ATSC tuner seems pretty decent, and found lots of local digital (SD and HD) channels OTA -- when using only a free ribbon antenna I got with my receiver that is made for FM!

Trying to calibrate black level this evening with the DVI output from my nvidia 6600 card connected at 1920x1080p to the HDMI input (selected the DVI option for the HDMI input, since there are three HDMI options: HDMI, HDMI HDCP, and DVI but only the DVI one gives me pixel perfect rendering) I found: Even with the backlight at its lowest AND with the black level at 0, I was seeing black-than-black from the DVE test patterns when played back in TT and in MCE. Solution? Using the nVidia control panel I lowered the desktop brightness from 100% to 96%. This strikes me as a hack, but maybe my only option?

The other black level observation: This LCD is better than one might expect but it's still clearly an LCD, which means contrast looks good because of how bright it gets, not how dark it can get. I can't imagine using this is a dark room for a theater experience, but it's a nice TV for watching content in a lit room.

Great review Benny,

I'm suprised you (and someone else) reported dot crawl. Using the xbox with a static display, I searched and searched, in every resolution for dot crawl (it annoys me probably more than anything else) and I found the set to be totally rock solid. Might as well be a painting. I don't have particularly good power either, this unit is plugged into a power strip thats plugged into another power strip, and I'm on the top floor of my apartment complex (5th floor) so theres a long run to the mains. I'd guess that it's more likely interference or cables or perhaps the quality varies from unit to unit. As for chroma bleeding and ghosting, I do see it on some DTV channels, and not others, I dont see any whatsoever on PC /XBOX. I attribute the bleeding/ghosting on DTV channels to the horrifically bad upscalers / a->d converters that the local station(s) are using because some stations come in without any bleeding at all, and stations that are transmitting native hi def signals I havn't noticed any bleeding.

I'm also suprised that you don't feel the DVI /PC picture quality is superb... What brand video card are you using?

Sounds like you're overall happy with the unit... thats great to hear :) I am pretty happy myself. I was expecting some dim unit with muddy blacks, and poor DVI support, with low viewing angles... I couldn't have been more wrong.

Did you bother to hook up the speakers?

Dan K


I'm noticing now that the chroma problem I'm experiencing is limited to when I have it hooked up to my PC (through the HDMI at 1080p). Or at least it's not as noticable over component. I'm using an Nvidia Geforce 6600, so I'm sure it's not the video cards problem. Picture looks great on my 1600x1200 Dell LCD. I'm hopeful that it's just a cable problem.

The dot crawl is certainly more noticable with poorer quality sources. Really clean hi-rez HDTV looks great. Like the ESPN HD logo graphics that I'm watching now look stunning! This certainly makes sense, so if I can clean up my input slightly, I'm sure the dot crawl will not be as noticable.

I haven't actually hooked up the speakers yet. It's kind of sad actually, I've been watching the TV without any audio what-so-ever. I've just been focusing on the picture, since I intend on using external speakers anyways. Though I may opt to use the included speakers for the center channel.

wow it looks like besides some cutting corners this set is a real winner O.o, much better concensus than my 42" vizio plasma was. I hope the dark levels are better too :D

I have a different question for you guys, Do you think I can fit it in the back seat of my sedan (2005 Altima). I was not able to fit my 42" plasma box in there but I'm hoping I can fit this tv in there.

The box that mine shipped in is 15"x31"x42", looks like it will easily fit in a back door and into a rear seat.

Dan K

I'm noticing now that the chroma problem I'm experiencing is limited to when I have it hooked up to my PC (through the HDMI at 1080p). Or at least it's not as noticable over component. I'm using an Nvidia Geforce 6600, so I'm sure it's not the video cards problem. Picture looks great on my 1600x1200 Dell LCD. I'm hopeful that it's just a cable problem.

The dot crawl is certainly more noticable with poorer quality sources. Really clean hi-rez HDTV looks great. Like the ESPN HD logo graphics that I'm watching now look stunning! This certainly makes sense, so if I can clean up my input slightly, I'm sure the dot crawl will not be as noticable.

I haven't actually hooked up the speakers yet. It's kind of sad actually, I've been watching the TV without any audio what-so-ever. I've just been focusing on the picture, since I intend on using external speakers anyways. Though I may opt to use the included speakers for the center channel.

Wait a sec! I figured it...thanks to you guys mentioning that there are 3 HDMI input selections. The DVI selection is breathtaking!!! Unbelievably gorgeous is all I can say. It is so sharp and clear...what was I thinking using the HDMI selection. Thanks guys. I'm in heaven.

That chroma bleeding I noticed before is also gone after I selected the correct input. I've revised my review. This thing is now a certain keeper. Goodbye 200 lb. CRT!

I haven't actually hooked up the speakers yet. It's kind of sad actually, I've been watching the TV without any audio what-so-ever. I've just been focusing on the picture, since I intend on using external speakers anyways. Though I may opt to use the included speakers for the center channel.

haha yeah I sat there for most of the day with my mouth hanging open lol. Well if you do hook up the speakers get ready for the low point of the set. I think I'm going to start a thread "hacking the sceptre" or something, with the goal of at least replacing the speakers inside the original enclosures. I'll have to open them up and take some pics first though. I really like the look of the unit without the speakers attached, but I'm reluctant to have another set of external speakers sitting there as well. My logitechs I think I've committed to my projector anyways. This is one awesome set, but I think the projector will always win for that in-the-theater immersion effect. especially at 100+"

Dan K

Wait a sec! I figured it...thanks to you guys mentioning that there are 3 HDMI input selections. The DVI selection is breathtaking!!! Unbelievably gorgeous is all I can say. It is so sharp and clear...what was I thinking using the HDMI selection. Thanks guys. I'm in heaven.

Haha, yeah I did the exact same thing when I got mine... I put it in HDMI mode, and my heart sunk when I saw the picture quality, mainly the cropping around the edges. I think HDMI mode upscales the image by about 50 pixels each direction, then crops back to native size, the scaling being particularly nasty. My panasonic ae700 projector just plain crops all hdmi input by 30 or so pixels on each edge, no option to uncrop... no "dvi" mode like the Sceptre. I'm glad that at least it doesnt scale the image like the sceptre's HDMI mode does.

I'm glad you see the same breathtaking DVI view I do... It's really astounding.

I'd sum up this set as: Extremely high quality LCD panel with exceptional digital and component inputs, with an acceptable SD converter, a subpar HDTV tuner, budget (but still aesthetically pleasing) cabinetry, a cheap looking stand, crummy UI, and awefull speakers.

Dan K

Well, there are a million ways to skin that cat. He described the absolute cheapest way. technically that's not even BOB (doesnt average lines below and above to fill in, it only doubles lines). It's also a hack because it doesn't mention pulldown. Deinterlacing without pulldown is horrific. There's actually a whole science to deinterlacing. This set does advertise 3:2 pulldown, but not that that means much, because it advertises 1080i TV as well. If your progressive scan DVD player only doubles lines/frames, then I'd take it back :) "only doubling lines" by definition halves your vertical resolution.

Read the deinterlacing bible:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

Especially the section "Deinterlacing Other Sources" and on. I read the whole thing but it took all day lol

Dan K


He didn't say anything about line doubling. He said take a frame of odd line and a frame of even lines, combine those into 1 frame and repeat it.

Yep....I'll be back there switching DVI cables all day long. :) You'd really think they'd give us more HDMI ports, and less S-Video/composites. Why would anyone buy a true HD panel, and use S-Video or worse composite?

Wonder what a DVI switcher costs? Obviously much more than a Component switcher. How do you like your HDD500? I'm thinking of the 250.

I agree, I think at least 2 digital ports should be standard on these new TV's. I was reading through this thread last night and the tuner built into the Sceptre only showing 720p so I deceided to check my Sony HDD500 as it was set to Auto HDMI and low and behold it was only shoting 480p to the screen, I cant believe I didnt notice this while watching the westy. As I changed it to 1080i and it made the picture look that much better and the res now shows correctly on my Westy. The HDD500 is growing on me by the day, I know some people have had trouble with the TV guide but its been working perfect for me since I received the HDD500 about a month ago. I got a real nice deal on the HDD500 from vanns as an open box so I couldnt pass it up. ALmost half of MSRP and it wasnt even powered up once. Since it is offseason I have not recorded a whole lot but the new fall season starts soon :) Lots of HD to record. I did record 3 hours of IMAX HD last weekend and it looks great.

I now need to mount this unit and do not want to use the Peerless bracket Costco carries (It's ~3" thick). I need this real flush to the wall. I think I can make my own.

I agree with the desire to have a flush-to-the-wall fit. Can anyone direct me (and others) to some DIY ideas?

Despite the shortcomings I mentioned, I'm sitting here watching The Aviator in 1920x1080p from my HTPC (over the DVI/HDMI input), and it is pretty breathtaking. The PQ of the LCD as a computer monitor is simply amazing, and the Sceptre correctly shows 1080p.

Where did you get The Aviator in 1920x1080p? For that matter, where are good sources for HD material for the PC?

Where did you get The Aviator in 1920x1080p? For that matter, where are good sources for HD material for the PC?


http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/dvd.aspx


Or

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&camp=1789&tag=rcs29-20&creative=9325&path=search-handle-url/ref=pd_sc?index=blended%26field-keywords=wmvhd

Wait a sec! I figured it...thanks to you guys mentioning that there are 3 HDMI input selections. The DVI selection is breathtaking!!! Unbelievably gorgeous is all I can say. It is so sharp and clear...what was I thinking using the HDMI selection. Thanks guys. I'm in heaven.

That chroma bleeding I noticed before is also gone after I selected the correct input. I've revised my review. This thing is now a certain keeper. Goodbye 200 lb. CRT!


I actually skipped the DVI input when it kept defaulting to 640X480, although the audio was the least effected by overlay buzzing. How do you get a higher rez on the DVI. For that matter, how do you get 3 HDMI inputs?

When I scroll through the same input button on the remote, the DVI selection at startup gives half screen, then feull screen, but 1/8 or so of image, then finally unsatisfying 640X480 full screen. All the above fed by Zenith HD STB at 1080i

Thank you very much

Fury

A lot of what has been reported on the image quality of this Sceptre so far has been related to PC sources that feed a 1920x1080 signal to the monitor to take full advantage of its robust rscreen resolution. And I intend to use my set that way, too (when it is shipped) . . . providing someone can suggest a decent value-priced video card that will output 1920x1080.

But, since we watch a lot of movies, and most are still 480p, I'm very interested in how conventional DVDs look on the Sceptre as well. Anyone care to report on this?

A lot of what has been reported on the image quality of this Sceptre so far has been related to PC sources that feed a 1920x1080 signal to the monitor to take full advantage of its robust rscreen resolution. And I intend to use my set that way, too (when it is shipped) . . . providing someone can suggest a decent value-priced video card that will output 1920x1080.

But, since we watch a lot of movies, and most are still 480p, I'm very interested in how conventional DVDs look on the Sceptre as well. Anyone care to report on this?



If you use ur pc to watch dvd's then you can get really good upconverting to 1080P


Search for scaler and other software here on the forum.

A lot of what has been reported on the image quality of this Sceptre so far has been related to PC sources that feed a 1920x1080 signal to the monitor to take full advantage of its robust rscreen resolution. And I intend to use my set that way, too (when it is shipped) . . . providing someone can suggest a decent value-priced video card that will output 1920x1080.

But, since we watch a lot of movies, and most are still 480p, I'm very interested in how conventional DVDs look on the Sceptre as well. Anyone care to report on this?

...or better yet share any experience with upscaling DVD players (Oppo, Bravo, or the NeuNeo which outputs 1080P)

re: HD sources.......two words.....illegal usenet files. Ok, that's three. People record HD cable (to digital tape I guess) and post the files in .ts format. Not that I would d/l or watch any such....

I'm wondering if any comparisons have been made.

The one big question on my mind is, how many colors does the
Sceptre support? 8-bit or 10-bit

Mike

I'm assuming when you say 8-bit color, you're talking about each color? So 8-bits for each of R,G,and B, which would typically be called 24-bit color?

It appears this thing can take a 32-bit color mode from my PC, but let me double check things.

I just checked and it is indeed set at 32-bit color. I don't even have an option for 24-bit at that resolution for some reason.

haha yeah I sat there for most of the day with my mouth hanging open lol. Well if you do hook up the speakers get ready for the low point of the set. I think I'm going to start a thread "hacking the sceptre" or something, with the goal of at least replacing the speakers inside the original enclosures. I'll have to open them up and take some pics first though. I really like the look of the unit without the speakers attached, but I'm reluctant to have another set of external speakers sitting there as well. My logitechs I think I've committed to my projector anyways. This is one awesome set, but I think the projector will always win for that in-the-theater immersion effect. especially at 100+"

Dan K


That would be good. I'm sure the casing should be easy to take apart then all we need is some good quality speaker and maybe some dampening material to get decent sound. It will be good for when you just want to watch some news and such without having to turn on the surround sound receiver.

Where did you get The Aviator in 1920x1080p? For that matter, where are good sources for HD material for the PC?

I'm upconverting the DVD using ffdshow, which is extensively talked about in the HTPC forums.

I'm watching Discovery HD right now, and it's picturesque. I don't know if I repositioned cables or something, or if I'm simply becoming adquainted with the picture, but I don't notice the dot crawl nearly as much as before. This TV is really winning me over more and more.

A lot of what has been reported on the image quality of this Sceptre so far has been related to PC sources that feed a 1920x1080 signal to the monitor to take full advantage of its robust rscreen resolution. And I intend to use my set that way, too (when it is shipped) . . . providing someone can suggest a decent value-priced video card that will output 1920x1080.

But, since we watch a lot of movies, and most are still 480p, I'm very interested in how conventional DVDs look on the Sceptre as well. Anyone care to report on this?

OK, I'm watching Kill Bill vol. 2 using the Xbox's DVD player at 480p. It looks pretty good, though I don't think the Xbox's DVD player is going to win any awards for quality to begin with. I'm quite satisfied with the DVD playback at 480p, though I don't intend on ever watching many DVDs without upconverting them.

OK, I'm watching Kill Bill vol. 2 using the Xbox's DVD player at 480p. It looks pretty good, though I don't think the Xbox's DVD player is going to win any awards for quality to begin with. I'm quite satisfied with the DVD playback at 480p, though I don't intend on ever watching many DVDs without upconverting them.


What did u use as a connection ?


the 480P the xbox produces is probablly in the same level of a 30$ DVD player.

Glad to hear the reports that 480p is looking good - but I totally agree that I wouldn't watch any without decent upscaling software or hardware DVD player. If you're going to spend this much on a TV, why not try to get the best possible picture you can? Best Buy has a few good players - namely the Zenith DVB318 which can be 'hacked' to enable scaling over component outputs (there's a huge thread/faq here somewhere) - for around $170. You might be able to find a better deal online somewhere.

If you're content watching DVDs at 480p save yourself a lot of money and buy a cheap EDTV plasma or something. Scalers aren't perfect, but they're going to make a SD-DVD look a lot better than 480p.

That said, I can't wait to get my unit and fire it up.

I now need to mount this unit and do not want to use the Peerless bracket Costco carries (It's ~3" thick). I need this real flush to the wall. I think I can make my own. I just need to know what the screw size is for those 4 threaded holes on the back. Anyone know?

I haven't gotten the unit yet, but the screw size on my small TV is M4. The spec on the Costco web site says:

Wall mountable (440mm x 200mm)

So I'm sure the screws will be metric, maybe larger than M4. Why don't you drop by the hardware store and get a few screws from M4 to M8 (they're cheap) and then see what fits when the TV arrives?

If I were trying to do a flush wall mount, I might buy a flat metal strip an inch or so wide and over 24" long, and then cut it to the distance between 2 studs. Drill a hole near each end to screw to each stud. Then drill 2 clearance holes the size of the shaft of the mounting screw (4mm or more depending on the screw size). The holes would be 440mm apart. Then drill another 2 holes right above the clearance holes a little larger than the screw head, and file the top and bottom holes together so you can insert the screw head in the top hole and slide it down into the smaller bottom hole. Then you'd put two screws into the top holes on the TV, leaving them unscrewed about 1/4" so they can slide into the holes in your brackets.

For a 1 stud mount, you could use the same idea with a square metal bracket over 440mm wide, screwed to the stud with 2 screws near the top and bottom of the center of the bracket, and the two double holes near the left and right edges of the bracket.

The box that mine shipped in is 15"x31"x42", looks like it will easily fit in a back door and into a rear seat.

Dan K

cool thanks, that's a relief, that means I'll have no problems going to pick it up from the pickup center after work :D

What did u use as a connection ?


the 480P the xbox produces is probablly in the same level of a 30$ DVD player.


errr I was pretty sure the Xbox doesn't do 480p for DVD playback!??!? Correct me if i' m wrong, but i'm pretty sure about this.

errr I was pretty sure the Xbox doesn't do 480p for DVD playback!??!? Correct me if i' m wrong, but i'm pretty sure about this.


I'm not sure... i have one but i would never use it to play dvd's

I now need to mount this unit and do not want to use the Peerless bracket Costco carries (It's ~3" thick). I need this real flush to the wall. I think I can make my own. I just need to know what the screw size is for those 4 threaded holes on the back. Anyone know?

As suggested, pick up a selection of metric screws and see what fits. Most brackets include a selection (e.g Peerless includes the following; M4x12mm, M4x25mm, M5x12mm, M5x25mm, M6x12mm, M6x25mm, M6x20mm, and M6x30mm).

Peerless also makes a Flat SF640 (1.18" deep) wall mount that is the equivalent to the Tilt ST640 (which I believe is the model that Costco is selling). IF the Peerless Tilt wall mount listed on the same page as the Sceptre 37" is the ST640, then the SF640 should also work. But not because they are designed that way, only because they are extra wide to allow up to 6" of horizontal adjustment from bracket center (i.e. to correct for offcenter stud placement etc.). The SF640 (flat) is 19.25" max width, and the ST640 is 18.65" max width. I do not know that the Sceptre 440mm (17.32") mounting screw placement allows enough clearance for either bracket to fit when accounting for centering the screws in the adapter brackets and the lips that keep the unit from sliding off the ends of the wall plates. Unfortunately, if the 440mm screw placement does fit in the SF640/ST640 it will leave no room for horizontal adjustment (which is something I was looking for).

You can create your own mounting bracket by making a "french cleat" (do a search - basically rip a 1x6 at a 45degree angle). For the Sceptre, you would need to create two of them exactly parallel and mount the twins precisely parallel and the same distance apart on the wall)

I'm assuming when you say 8-bit color, you're talking about each color? So 8-bits for each of R,G,and B, which would typically be called 24-bit color?

It appears this thing can take a 32-bit color mode from my PC, but let me double check things.

I just checked and it is indeed set at 32-bit color. I don't even have an option for 24-bit at that resolution for some reason.

32-bit (http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=32bit+color&i=37025,00.asp)
color from a PC is really just 24-bit with added alpha channels. I'm wanting to know if the display will support either 16.7M colors i.e. 24bit color depth or 10bit which is 1B + colors. I don't think there are any current sources that can push 10bit color, but I do know a display can use the extra colors for dithering. Additionally I'm thinking the color depth will be available some time in the future.

Mike

anyone know if this TV will be carried by Costco in stores? If so, what is the Part # and price point? thanks.

...Peerless also makes a Flat SF640 (1.18" deep) wall mount that is the equivalent to the Tilt ST640 (which I believe is the model that Costco is selling)...
I don't know if this helps any, but near the bottom of the Peerless page on the Costco site, it says "Model D-FPT-220." It's strange because that model turns up at several retailers after doing a Web search, but it's not listed on Peerless' own Web site.

errr I was pretty sure the Xbox doesn't do 480p for DVD playback!??!? Correct me if i' m wrong, but i'm pretty sure about this.


It won't out of the box, but if you do one of the many available hacks to it, it will do 480P dvd playback (with the right software)

A hacked XBOX = one of the coolest toys I've ever had. Think of it as a media hub when you install Xbox Media Center.

A chipped xbox can be loaded with software to play DVDs at 480p/720p/1080i. XBMC works great as well.

I don't know if this helps any, but near the bottom of the Peerless page on the Costco site, it says "Model D-FPT-220." It's strange because that model turns up at several retailers after doing a Web search, but it's not listed on Peerless' own Web site.

I'm still deciding whether or not to wall-mount the thing or leave it on the stand. What do people do to hide the wires that dangle from the TV (assuming you mount it well above the height of your furniture)? Do they use some sort of plastic strip to hide the wires? Thanks.

Ok I have my DVD hooked up though my components video cable
anyone? Will I see a difference if I spend the bucks to by a HDMI cable or it the component cable going to look the same

I'm still deciding whether or not to wall-mount the thing or leave it on the stand. What do people do to hide the wires that dangle from the TV (assuming you mount it well above the height of your furniture)? Do they use some sort of plastic strip to hide the wires? Thanks.

There are a wide variety of cable management/tracks available - check out you local hardware or building supply store. Many can be painted with regular wall paint to blend into the wall.


I don't know if this helps any, but near the bottom of the Peerless page on the Costco site, it says "Model D-FPT-220." It's strange because that model turns up at several retailers after doing a Web search, but it's not listed on Peerless' own Web site.

Yeah, I don't know where the FPT-220/FPF-220 (tilt/flat) models stand compared to the SF640/ST640 (is the FPT-220 an older discontinued model or just a lower weight rated model?). The manual for the ST640 says is covers models FPT2-220 as well as ST640. But the FPT (no 2)-220 available from Costco is for "22-37inch screens" and is only rated for 80lbs while the ST640 is for "22-49inch screens" and is rated for 150lbs. They look very similiar but because the FPT-220 is not on the Peerless web site, I can't compare the exact dimensions. I assume that if the Sceptre can be made to work on the FPT-220, that will fit the ST640 (but again, with no horizontal adjustment). And to repeat, if it fits these two tilt models, it should fit the corresponding FPF-220 and SF640 Flat (~1 inch) models.

Ok I have my DVD hooked up though my components video cable
anyone? Will I see a difference if I spend the bucks to by a HDMI cable or it the component cable going to look the same
I have an HD-TiVo which outputs HDMI and component. I had both hooked up at the same time and couldn't see any difference. The HDMI had a big problem though. When shutting down the Sceptre, it locked up the TiVo every time. I had to reboot it. Disconnecting the HDMI fixed that.

On both inputs I noticed more video noise than I'm used to on my Sharp Acquos 37". I don't know if it's the environment (it's in a different room, different TiVo, etc), or maybe the settings are different. I'm going to move the Sceptre into the same room as the Sharp and try to do a better comparison. The noise is really only an issue on darker scenes, but it just doesn't look as smooth as the Sharp. I have the Sharp hooked up through component. There's also the issue of the sides being slightly brighter than the middle that really is obvious in darker scenes. Maybe some adjustments can help.

anyone know if this TV will be carried by Costco in stores? If so, what is the Part # and price point? thanks.

According to the coupon in the Summer Coupon book, it is only sold online on their website.

Yeah, I don't know where the FPT-220/FPF-220 (tilt/flat) models stand compared to the SF640/ST640 (is the FPT-220 an older discontinued model or just a lower weight rated model?). The manual for the ST640 says is covers models FPT2-220 as well as ST640. But the FPT (no 2)-220 available from Costco is for "22-37inch screens" and is only rated for 80lbs while the ST640 is for "22-49inch screens" and is rated for 150lbs. They look very similiar but because the FPT-220 is not on the Peerless web site, I can't compare the exact dimensions. I assume that if the Sceptre can be made to work on the FPT-220, that will fit the ST640 (but again, with no horizontal adjustment). And to repeat, if it fits these two tilt models, it should fit the corresponding FPF-220 and SF640 Flat (~1 inch) models.



This mount is on the PeerlessIndustries web site with model number RTFPT-220

You can find it from the main Peerless web page. Click on "Retail Packaged Products" and then "Flat Panel Mounts" and then click on:

"SMARTMOUNT TILT WALL MOUNT FOR 22"-49" SCREENS"

Then there's a link to the brochure, which says it's for 22" to 37" screens.

I stayed up last night and watched "Late Night" on NBC OTA DTV... Wow what a picture. I may be convinced that this unit indeed does do ATSC 1080i correctly.

Can anyone with a discerning eye for 1080i please check out some 1080i native OTA DTV content and post whether it looks correct or not?

Thanks,

Dan K

Has anyone who has the 37 inch westinghouse monitor also bought this and be able to compare the video quality, not PC connections but video playback quality.

Kurtis

Hey,

Just a thought on the speakers. Has anyone tried hooking them up to an external receiver? i.e. send the TV's output to a receiver with the included speakers hook up to the receiver.

Just curious if an external amp would make them sound better.

Honestly im lost in all of this,...... is the scpetre 1080p good, or not!????
thanks

I'm still deciding whether or not to wall-mount the thing or leave it on the stand. What do people do to hide the wires that dangle from the TV (assuming you mount it well above the height of your furniture)? Do they use some sort of plastic strip to hide the wires? Thanks.
Sure, you can buy all sorts of plastic channels and other such things that can (sort of) hide wires. But if you really want to hide them, cut the drywall, install the cables, and then 'mud' over the damage that you did. It really isn't difficult to do. Of course, if you want to make changes in the future, you have to make a mess once again. I just put in a bunch of RG-11 using this technique. It looks good.

If you are renting, though, you might want to be VERY careful!

Honestly im lost in all of this,...... is the scpetre 1080p good, or not!????
thanks


Yes, it's good. There are better sets and there are worse sets -- and what you intend to use it for will determine whether it's the right set for you. If you indicate what you will use it for, you will likely get informed opinions about its qualities (or lack thereof).

For example, if you were getting it to watch mostly regular cable TV, I'd say there are better choices -- and better technologies.

Sure, you can buy all sorts of plastic channels and other such things that can (sort of) hide wires. But if you really want to hide them, cut the drywall, install the cables, and then 'mud' over the damage that you did. It really isn't difficult to do. Of course, if you want to make changes in the future, you have to make a mess once again. I just put in a bunch of RG-11 using this technique. It looks good.

If you are renting, though, you might want to be VERY careful!

Yeah, I am renting. So I need to go with the less destructive route :-)

Sure, you can buy all sorts of plastic channels and other such things that can (sort of) hide wires. But if you really want to hide them, cut the drywall, install the cables, and then 'mud' over the damage that you did. It really isn't difficult to do. Of course, if you want to make changes in the future, you have to make a mess once again. I just put in a bunch of RG-11 using this technique. It looks good.

If you are renting, though, you might want to be VERY careful!

And you can make a hole behind the TV and drop (a stiff pilot wire will move past the insulation) your wire(s) down to the floor. Make another hole at the bottom of the floor and fish out your wire(s). A plate (various kinds of connectors are available) can cover both ends. It can look very neat and tidy.
I have also used Jim's method and it works well, too. I hate sanding the spackle down to invisibility though. :o

I tried unsuccessfully to get the Sceptre Tech Support rep to cough up the code to the diagnostic menu in the sceptre.

First his reason not to give it up was:


Dear Customer,

I can tell you that there are no additional control for picture quality in
the hidden menu.

Best Regards,
Sceptre Technical Support Group


After I pressed him again to get it his response was:


Dear Customer,

It's dangerous inside, sorry I'm not allowed to. If you screw settings up
it's quite catastrophic.

Best Regards,
Sceptre Technical Support Group


Sounds a little possibly conflicting.

So herm... Anyone feel like hacking with the remote? There can't be more than a few billion combinations of buttons to try out.

Then again, maybe if everyone emails them they may get sick of being asked and cough it up anyways.

Dan K

I can't afford the 37", does anyone have any experience or know of any reviews for the X32SV-Naga?

well again from what i read here the 30 inch is better than the 32 inch....

so its your choice

32-bit (http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=32bit+color&i=37025,00.asp)
color from a PC is really just 24-bit with added alpha channels. I'm wanting to know if the display will support either 16.7M colors i.e. 24bit color depth or 10bit which is 1B + colors. I don't think there are any current sources that can push 10bit color, but I do know a display can use the extra colors for dithering. Additionally I'm thinking the color depth will be available some time in the future.

Mike

The CMO panel only supports up to 8bit, 16.7 million colors. I don't have the link offhand to their site for this panel, but it is stated in there as well as other specs.

And you can make a hole behind the TV and drop (a stiff pilot wire will move past the insulation) your wire(s) down to the floor. Make another hole at the bottom of the floor and fish out your wire(s). A plate (various kinds of connectors are available) can cover both ends. It can look very neat and tidy.
I have also used Jim's method and it works well, too. I hate sanding the spackle down to invisibility though. :o

You are only going to find insulation on the outside walls. But, regardless of whether it is an outside wall or an inside wall, if you try to fish a wire down from eye level, you are almost sure to run into the firebreak cross members -- the horizontal members that are typically at 48" above the floors. They are short pieces of 2x4 that run between the 2x4 studs.

Sanding drywall mud is not all that hard. You just have to take your time. It's not that difficult to make the job invisible. The trick is to use a minimal amount of drywall mud. Spackle is harder to work with.

We are bound to hear from the folks who will bring up electrical code violations. Yes, this is not according to code. Neither is the 14 AWG wire in the walls of this place, which was built before 12 AWG became the law of the land.

The point is: Just use common sense.

I agree with the desire to have a flush-to-the-wall fit. Can anyone direct me (and others) to some DIY ideas?

Why not just mount it to a piece of 1/2" plywood using the four threaded holes on the back. Then figure a way to mount the plywood to the wall. Hell, you could hang it like a heavy picture. Tilt it by inserting a small wooden block at top or bottom. Too low tech for guys here at the techiest tech forum????? :)

I haven't gotten the unit yet, but the screw size on my small TV is M4. The spec on the Costco web site says:

Wall mountable (440mm x 200mm)

So I'm sure the screws will be metric, maybe larger than M4. Why don't you drop by the hardware store and get a few screws from M4 to M8 (they're cheap) and then see what fits when the TV arrives?

If I were trying to do a flush wall mount, I might buy a flat metal strip an inch or so wide and over 24" long, and then cut it to the distance between 2 studs. Drill a hole near each end to screw to each stud. Then drill 2 clearance holes the size of the shaft of the mounting screw (4mm or more depending on the screw size). The holes would be 440mm apart. Then drill another 2 holes right above the clearance holes a little larger than the screw head, and file the top and bottom holes together so you can insert the screw head in the top hole and slide it down into the smaller bottom hole. Then you'd put two screws into the top holes on the TV, leaving them unscrewed about 1/4" so they can slide into the holes in your brackets.

For a 1 stud mount, you could use the same idea with a square metal bracket over 440mm wide, screwed to the stud with 2 screws near the top and bottom of the center of the bracket, and the two double holes near the left and right edges of the bracket.





I like your idea. That sounds solid--a bit of work, but the best way to deal with a flush mounting. I'll shop for some metric screws. Hope you get your unit soon. Enjoy!!!

Say how does one lower the brightness on this unit. I can't find it in the MENU.

Is there any way to get the PIP to consist of a computer input, e.g., a DVD playing in the computer?

You are only going to find insulation on the outside walls. But, regardless of whether it is an outside wall or an inside wall, if you try to fish a wire down from eye level, you are almost sure to run into the firebreak cross members -- the horizontal members that are typically at 48" above the floors. They are short pieces of 2x4 that run between the 2x4 studs.

Sanding drywall mud is not all that hard. You just have to take your time. It's not that difficult to make the job invisible. The trick is to use a minimal amount of drywall mud. Spackle is harder to work with.

We are bound to hear from the folks who will bring up electrical code violations. Yes, this is not according to code. Neither is the 14 AWG wire in the walls of this place, which was built before 12 AWG became the law of the land.

The point is: Just use common sense.

Well, I guess all houses are not the same. I built our house in '96 and it is 2X6 walls. The insulation (R22) is between the outside wall (plywood and tyvek and cedar siding) and the inside wall (vapor barrier and drywall). I took some pictures as I built so I know where most of the wiring is. I did the framing, plumbing, electrical, mudding, taping et al. It was 6 months of lots of work. :eek:

Of course, that's for a wall with an exterior reverse side. The interior walls are 2X4 and I did insulate them as well. Not all interior walls are insulated. It does isolate sounds better though, IMO. And Firebreaks are not required here for the middle of the walls, just at the top. I know firebreaks used to be common but I don't think they are as this method of doing a wire behind the drywall is one I saw on a popular TV show (can't remember if it was Hometime or This Old House).


Dropping a wire behind the drywall will have insulation to contend with in my house (and most built in recent years - at least in Washington state) but one can go between the drywall and the paper that lines the insulation (faces the warm side) with a stiff wire used as a pilot. The pilot then pulls the other wires through.
There are other kinds of insulation. Some people now use the kind that is "bagged". I'm still itching from putting the insulation in our walls, ceiling and floors. :eek:

I use the word spackle but I mean mud. I have sanded for many hours but I do not enjoy that part of building.

All I wanted to say was: where there's a will . . . :)