Hi, Dan!

I'd be honored to have you visit any time - just say the word (really - please shoot me a PM)! To be honest, though, while most people may expect "more" from me, I actually don't have a real Home Theater like those fortunate folks who've been able to work with Dennis Erskine to create the genuine article. I just own a California-sized (i.e. fairly small) contemporary house, with lots of windows and poor light control, where my multipurpose white-painted, light-carpeted living room has fairly crappy acoustics, but -Oh!- that image!!! I'm definitely a video fiend! ;)

Please do stop by some time - I'd really enjoy getting the opportunity to meet you!

Best Wishes!
MarkF

Rizman, where did you get your fibre optic cable? I'll need a 40' cable. Comments as to whether this can be copper or must be fibre optic seem to be mixed, so I'll go with fibre optic.

Dan

Dan: I just got a 66ft cable from DTrovision through Kei Clarke at Digital Connection. The price is lower than that on their webpage so get in touch with her through AVS or e-mailing sales@digitalconnection.com.

The cable is great, there may be issues with powering it as some players/scalers (DVDO for example) don't produce enough juice to fire the fiber optics up. There's a small adaptor that fixes this problem simply enough. Make sure you mention you plan on using this with a DVDO unit that doesn't produce enough juice for this cable. (I just went through this whole problem.)

All parties, DVDO, Dtrovision and Digital Connection were fantastic at customer support.

I spoke to someone at one of the copper (silver actually) cable companies. It's iffy to get high def over such long runs using anything but fiber or DVI/HDMI over ethernet.

Some cables allow you to snap off the heads so you can pull them through the walls easier but they're drastically more expensive.

Raoul

Very valuable information Raoul, particularly the bit about the DVDO needing an adapter. Thanks!

Dan

Has a vendor selling "Dust & Firmware" fixed versions been identified (in the US)? Or, is everyone still having to send them back to get the fix.

My old (really old) DLP just cratered, so I'm now in the market.

Scott

I talked extensively with Canon about the dust fix. It is real, but they could not give me a date or serial number to know if the fix is applied. Apperently, even if the fix has been applied in manufacturing sometimes it wasn't done right. (maybe early fixes)

Anyway. The only sure way to get it is to send it to the Canon New Jersey depot with a note saying you want the "dust fix" and the latest firmware. The techs there are trained on this.

Ken

Thanks Ken.

Maybe I could come by and see your's one day before I take the leap (hint, hint).

It may be a few months though, I'm moving to Baku, Azerbijan. You know the oil business (always the nicest places). I'll let you know how that James Bond movie compares to the real place.

Scott

Well, I got my replacement SX50. It started out clean but after a few hours its started collecting dust. None are very prominent, but I'll have to decide if I send it back for a refund or send it to Canon for the fix.

I've had much more success optimizing the image. My best setup turned out to be running component out of my Panny F-87K 5 disc changer into my Iscan Ultra then out its DVI port into my CS-2 where it was upscaled to 720P.

This was run to the SX50 sitting upside down on a high mantel 16-17' feet away on the back wall. The cable is a 30' Key Digital Python HDMI with two Monster 400 HDMI to DVI adapters. This cable is flawless at this length.

720P TRUE SIZE is (as has been reported) this projectors sweet spot. Even 1400x1050 doesn't look as good. At 720P there is zero tearing, very little judder, and only minor banding remains.

I spent a lot more time calibrating this go round. Instead of optimizing 80-100 IRE for D65, I optimized 50 IRE and split the difference. Now the dark regions are not too blue and the brighter parts are still close. There are no jumps or discontinuities so on real movies the color looks real good.

I also optimized the contrast. This made a huge impact on the 3D realism of the image. This is what I was hoping for from this projector in the first place. I'll try to measure the CR tonight and report back.

If only we could adjust the biases, then this projector would truly be the value king, because I can make 10-100IRE dead on D65, but not at the same time.

BTW, this little projector sits just fine on my 10" mantel shelf, and the way the cooling works is ideal.

Ken

Well, I'm very interested in the real-life d65 contrast measurement. . .waiting with baited breath. Are you using high or low bulb setting?

Can you comment on the shadow detail with the new settings?

I'm getting somewhere between 800 and 850:1. I was hoping it would measure higher. I measured my original unit in the 900's but that was uncalibrated maxing out contrast and minimizing brightness.

Without ND2 filter I'm getting 51 fL white and .06 fL black. With ND2 is 26 and .03. So you could use an ND2 and get a black of .015 and still have 13 fL's.

This is all probably pretty close given the 1000:1 spec.

The blacks look much better to me than these numbers would indicate. The amount of detail in the blacks is high and they are maintained in mixed scenes. Guess I need to measure the Ansi CR :)

Ken

Ok I need to remember to not use Standard mode. In Cinema and sRGB I can calibrate grayscale to D65 from somewhere below 20 IRE to 100 IRE.

After reviewing video I think I slightly prefer Cinema mode. It appears to have less dithering than sRGB.

And with the lights out the ND2 filter brings down the blacks a notch and takes the edge off of some of the mpeg artifacts.

Ken

Anyone tried a colour correcting filter (or filters) for better contrast as well as improving black levels?

If the lamp is UHP and behaves like the ones I'm used to in DLPs, you might get closer to the rated CR using something like an FL-Day or similar.

Gary.

We tried a few filters from Jeff Meier's Kodak set, but didn't really complete the process. Now that I've got things so much closer it might be easier.

The blacks are too blue but not bothersome. D65 kicks in pretty low and is maintained all the way to 100 IRE.

My wife and I watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding last night and the SX50 performed superbly. It's got a lot of dark scenes and I didn't feel cheated at all. When the source allowed the picture was quite stunning.

One nice side effect was that my eyes felt soothed at the end of the movie compared with my DLP.

I may get the chance to do a comparo with an H79 next week. If it happens it will be a great reality check.

Ken

Ken, didn't you crank the blue up higher when you adjusted the projector? I just don't see blue blacks at all on the Firehawk.

Dan

No I cranked it down as much as I could get away with to help with the blue blacks. I agree that the blue blacks become a non-issue. I can measure that black is too blue, but its not really visibly so. It's blue to the extent that if I say "the blacks are blue" you might say "yeah, now that you mention it they might be a tiny bit blue"

Your Firehawk probably does mask the small remnant blue. The darker rear projection material in our conference room has this effect as well.

Ken

Hi Ken,

Looking forward to your comparison with the H79. This pj seems excellent value and I must say I'm very interested in it's performance.

Gary.

Ken, if you decide you want to try out this Grayhawk material, it's sitting in my garage ready to ship. I'm guessing it would also cut the blue black problem. But I still think the Firehawk is a great screen material for this projector.

Watched the baseball game tonight in HD. Fantastic! The color is just amazing from this projector. It is so easy on the eyes to watch.

Dan

Scott,

Missed your post. You're welcome to come by anytime. That is anytime we're not at soccer, church, or scouts. :)

Dan,

Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on it if I get a chance to try it out.

Gary,

I really hope I get the chance. I'm really enjoying the Canon in isolation, but a head to head with a well known top performing DLP would definitely confirm or deny its standing.

I watched some more HD night before last. Probably caught some of the same game you saw Dan. The interesting content was some racing footage very similar to that shown during the Ruby demo at Cedia. The SX50 did an admirable job and few would probably want to pay 3X more for the difference.

Something I tried on the HD baseball was switching to Presentation mode. Man, if you want a plasma of any size you choose then you might want to check this prjector out. The funny thing was I preferred the image either with ND filter and low lamp mode, or in high lamp without the filter. The SX50 got a lot brighter, but there was none of the white peaking you see on DLP and the perceived contrast actually went up.

Ken

Ken,

I wonder if you could comment on the shading or uniformity of the SX50 - this has been a big issue of past D-iLA units, and I have asked about this before but have been unable to find an answer. Calibration of the JVC G series could eliminate this, but no such ability exists for the Canon. It seems that if its not so good out of the box, youre stuck with it.

Secondly, I would ask about a poster's comments awhile back relating to some type of vertical (8-bar?) and even horizontal banding on the unit ?

Lastly, any new info on the dust problem, and what the build-date is on your unit that has (or had) the dust issue?

Thanks,

- Chris

Chris,

A good friend of mine who has reviewed many D-ILA's said he saw "some shading issues". I don't really see any and I didn't probe his statement. I did wonder if it was my WidePower screen as he is used to a HighPower, but he would definitely know the difference.

I don't see any of the yellow or reds at the corners for sure. Basically its a non-issue for me as I don't see any shading variations.

I do see some banding and dithering, but I haven't had a chance to do a head to head with my DLP to put it in perspective.

There is definitely more banding than on the HS51 I evaluated, but then it has the same 12-bit post gamma processing as the Qualia.

Ken

I watched some of the Incredibles and Fifth Element SB with my HTPC as the source. All of the banding is gone on this source. Hmmm... That means I need to find the problem with my DVD/Scaler combo. The good news is that I should be able to achieve virtual perfection if I can get it right.

I think it might just be a PC 0-255 vs. Video 16-235 issue. I think the SX50 wants 0-255 and when it gets 16-235 the expansion causes banding.

Ken

Ken,

Thanks for the info. I'm glad that via HTPC the banding is gone, because even on the 5+ year old JVC D-iLA units there is no banding / dithering effect when feeding the proper source. One simple test for shading issues is to put up a white field, and observe how consistent it is across the screen, or simply put in a B&W movie and look for any color tinges (esp. toward edges of screen).

Any idea what the build-date of your unit is ? I take it the one you currently have also has the dust issue, IIRC ?

Thanks,

-Chris

This is a little strange. I got mine before Ken from the same supplier, yet I see no dust issue. I'm feeding it XGA off of a Faroudja NRS, or 720P pass thru from an OTA HDTV tuner and having no tearing or banding. I've noticed there is a slight image alignment shift between some SD sources, sometimes with different feeds from the same SD source, but this is very minor and I expect will disappear when I go to strictly feeding the projector at native rate and freqency over the DVI input.

Can't say my environment is super-clean either.

This thing is just FANTASTIC with HD sports games. Very nice watching with the lights on during games, like a big TV on the wall almost.

DVD performance is not nearly as good but I expect to improve that with the SiL04 in the DVDO scaler I'm buying. The NRS continues to do a GREAT job with the SD stuff, so it is going to be kept just for that purpose.

Ken, how are you checking for dust?

Dan

I'm pretty sure if you're not getting tearing its because you luckily sent it 720P from the get go.

Native rate from the HTPC even at 60.02 Hz tears some. This is on both units that shipped from Canon to mine and Dan's dealer mid August. Li On got the same behavior on another SX50.

I don't see any shading issue when I put up a solid white screen. My friend who saw the shading issues will get another chance next week. I'll ask him to point them out to me.

My first unit had its worst blob OOTB, then collected many more sitting on or very near my carpetted floor. My second unit had none OOTB, but collected a handful after a few hours.

The blobs on my second unit are not really visible unless I focus on them. That is, I must defocus the image and then the dust blobs can be brought into focus for the dust particles they really are. When the image is in focus the dust particles actually show up as two mirror image smudges above and below each other. So just defocus slowly clockwise and counter clockwise and see if any black dust specs come into focus.

Now that I have my units up high on my mantel I might not be getting any more. I haven't recounted like I did at first.

Have to agree with you on the HD Sports Dan. It's also fantastic on DVD's once calibrated to D65 and fed just the right signal.

I think Icon may have stumbled onto the perfect DVD source right off the bat.

If anyone has an Oppo that wants to lend it or trade for a brand new Panasonic S97 let me know.

Ken

Everybody
Do you expect new products using AISYS?
I can not let the dream of DI+AISYS fade away. Didn´t some avsmember have a contact at Canon. Sx50 is great but there is potential for even more.

I spoke with someone from Canon and they asked questions and listened about HT needs.

They were completely non-committal though.

I mainly focused on 16:9, and perfect color. (and HDCP!)

Ken

KenLand
DI is mainstream so we should not worry about that!

Ken,

Appreciate you being an advocate of our interests here. :)

Maybe the Canon folks are just being tight-lipped about what's in the pipeline. We'll see if anything comes out at CES.

This light engine is a wonder.

My son had an all day/night birhtday party. He needed 100" game screen in the middle of the day and mom needed the lights on for ongoing party prep. No problem! I fired up Normal lamp mode and about 2500 lumens took care of everything. All from a small box sitting over 16' feet away on a 10" shelf.

Ken

This light engine is a wonder.
Ken

Yep! I agree!

Back home in Metairie Louisiana. There are sites here that can only be called indescribable. Metairie is on the western side of the now infamous 17th Street drainage canal that burst on the Eastern side. One of my friends, a fellow Mac proponent, works for the major local construction firm here. He said that the dropping of sand bags by the helicopters was all for show. His company plugged the leak by first damming up the canal, draining it down a bit and then moved in sand, gravel, whatever by truck and bulldozer. He went on to say that the canal failure was caused by the sheet metal and foundation not being deep and sturdy (thick) enough. To those mislead by the national press, these canals and levees are all designed and maintained by the Army Corp of Engineers. It is not the local politicians who are to blame for their design failure. It was the national governments continued refusal to fund the levee beefing up project requested by the local government yearly but it was continually cut from funding at the national level. Most recently Bush sliced the upgrade project because of the cost of the Iraq war. I think the cost of a month of the war would have funded the levee project. It would have given the area category five protection. Now the cost and losses are incalculable. New Orleans will never be the same in my lifetime and maybe in several lifetimes.

Anyway, my construction manager buddy said that the western side had also displaced/moved (bulged) and was ready to go but the eastern (New Orleans) side gave first and that took the pressure off of my side. But there was major flooding in Jefferson because the parish president had the pumps shut down during the storm and moved the pump operators out of harms way even though the police and fireman had to stay behind. It was in retrospect a very bad decision but the damage in Jefferson is nothing like New Orleans.

Have you ever seen a tree mountain? FEMA is stacking up the damaged/dead trees in mounds so high they look like mountains. Can you imagine “mountains” of dead oak and other trees? We're talking blocks of trees six or seven stories high... The areas that were under eight to ten feet of water are filled with homes that will all have to be bulldozed with rare exception. Most homes look OK (although mud stained) on the outside but their internal structures have collapsed into a mold, mildew laden toxic corrosive gumbo that renders their contents and structures useless. My sisters home was one of those near the level break. It is sad to pull up to my sixty-six year old sister's home that was filled with her life's collection of her possessions and memorabilia and realize all is lost. If she is lucky she may get a third of its old market value (she was underinsured) and there is no bringing back the photos and sentimental items we all accumulate over a lifetime. The toxic stew is so corrosive that even guns from gun collections are melting away.

My home fared well. A bit of wind driven rain damage but it is livable. My business is another matter. There are no printers or ad agencies active here so my Macintosh sales and consulting business is essentially dead. I still may take a bit of a road trip to give the place time to recover. The biggest problem besides no business is labor. There are no young folks here to fill the jobs that we all did when we were college and post college age. The universities here are still shut down and the cheaper rent multi unit dwellings were almost all flooded even here in Jefferson so there is no place for the labor force "kids" to live. Many have started schools elsewhere and many of those may never come back. Thus stores like Wal-Mart if they are open close at 6PM as does Loew's and Home Depot. The restaurants are also hurting for help so they are crowded or open short hours. In other words living here isn’t easy in the Big Easy.

Since I sent my third test SX50 back, I am ready to order my own but may hold off till I see how my money and the economy does. I am using my old Mitsubishi DLP unit (also 4:3 & 2500 lumens). Its OK and I have finally seen some HiDef football and baseball but it does not keep up with the SX50's smooth, lush film-like image. I am not rainbow sensitive but what bothers me the most (and this may come as a surprise to the DLP proponents here) is the screen door effect of DLP. On an eleven foot screen the SDE is very noticeable to one who is spoiled by the LCOS based SX50. Maybe the newer DLP's have less noticeable SDE? I hope so because if even this new three gun model is G-d's gift to us then the SX50 will still put it to shame if its SDE is only half as noticeable of that of my year old Mitsubishi DLP unit.

Ken, did you ever send your unit in to service for the correct dust fix?

Icon Master

(Send me money or Macintosh business!)

Icon, glad to hear you're OK and your home survived. Could you detail exactly how and who we contact to get the dust fix and firmware upgrade? I am expecting my unit will need this at some point.

If you take another road trip, include Albuquerque on your intinerary. We have a nice large guest room. :)

Dan

Icon,

Glad your home was spared! What a blessing to have a roof in your situation. I think the perpetually unfunded levee upgrades will be given more priority now! (at least one would hope)

There will be so much business going on as the rebuilding starts. You just need to figure out your angle :)

I haven't gotten around to sending in my unit yet. I want to make sure I have a proper RMA so it won't get lost. Also, the unit I'm supposed to send in is the one I want to compare with the H79 this week.

I spent some time and got my Panny S97 to put out a non-banding image, but it is not quite as good as my HTPC. I'm considering an Oppo or a Mac Mini.

Dan, as soon as I actually send mine in I can give you exact instructions. (hopefully no horror stories :) )

Icon, any thing I need to know about which Mini I would need? Software? Options?

Ken

To those mislead by the national press, these canals and levees are all designed and maintained by the Army Corp of Engineers. It is not the local politicians who are to blame for their design failure. It was the national governments continued refusal to fund the levee beefing up project requested by the local government yearly but it was continually cut from funding at the national level. Most recently Bush sliced the upgrade project because of the cost of the Iraq war. I think the cost of a month of the war would have funded the levee project. It would have given the area category five protection. Now the cost and losses are incalculable. New Orleans will never be the same in my lifetime and maybe in several lifetimes.


Tragic and true. New Orleans was a grand old town, full of life and unique culture. It is one of my three favorite American cities.

Glad to hear that your house was spared much of the damage, Icon. I wish you well in persevering through this recovery period.

Ken, did you see that review of the Oppo?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590244

Very interesting I thought. The link is to a summary, there is a link there to the full review.

Dan,

I sure did. It has the same macroblocking 2310 chip as my Panasonic S97. (no thanks)

Here's my best non HTPC setup so far:

480i Component out from S97
480P DVI out from Iscan Ultra
720P out from CS-2 scaler

The CS-2 does a much better job of scaling than the upscaling in the S97.

If I hadn't seen the HTPC, I would be done.

One trick that reduced banding was that I set the contrast and brightness controls on the SX50 to 0 and adjusted the levels upstream in the DVD player.

Very nice picture actually and this setup is smoother on pans as well.

Got confirmation (and permission :) ) to do the comparo with the H79 on Thurs. night.

Let me know if there is anything particular you want me to compare.

Ken

Dan,

I was going to add that my research indicates your 3910 plus an Iscan VP30 would be the optimal setup with the Canon.

I know that was your thinking all along, but I'd say its been confirmed.

Everyone stay away from upscaling DVD players when we have affordable scalers.

Ken

Well we had the H79/SX50 comparo last night. Texas Aggie, a forum member, had me and a Mystery Guest over to his excellent home theater. He and his wife were very gracious hosts. You should check out his posted pictures some time. It's the nicest theater I've ever been in and he did it all himself including the Crestron programming.

The short answer is that you can probably guess the results. The H79 killed the SX50 in blacks and contrast, but the SX50 dominated in the bright no visible pixel area.

What wasn't so forgone was that we were unable to calibrate the H79 in a reasonably quick manor. The colors were off and calibration was elusive.

The strangest thing was that the color decoder behaved differently with different test patterns. With standard SMPTE colorbars the decoder tested well, but with DVE double row of color squares on a white background it was afoul. Very strange.

The result was that we used the OOTB defaults and simply picked the color temp setting closest to D65.

On smooth gray ramps the SX50 just edged out the H79. Neither was even close to the Sony HS51 on this test.

So color, color decoding, banding and SDE went to the SX50. Blacks, contrast and the resulting increase in image depth went to the H79. Both projectors were plenty bright to light up the 118" Grayhawk in TA's light controlled theater. (we didn't measure the light output from the Optoma, but the Canon put out 991 lumens in low and 1250 in high)

I really enjoyed the H79, but had to move to the back row to get away from the SDE.

Our source was HDMI out at 720P from my Panasonic S97. After further testing it was found that the analog component out is unsuitable on this player. Although it shows a bit less video noise, it was determined this is due to improper roll off on the high end.

I didn't originally like the upconverted HDMI out on the S97 due to macroblocking but I didn't see any on the material we played so maybe I'll give it another chance.

All in all I think I'll keep my SX50 and flip in my Hoya ND2 filter for lights off viewing.

Texas Aggie and our Mystery Guest may differ in their opinions and post additional or counter information.

My personal conclusion is that if you want it all (save super brightness) then the Sony Ruby will give you all the benefits of LCOS with the blacks of DLP.

But, thats 10 big ones vs. 3.5, so SX50 for at least awhile.

If you have total light control and/or a gain screen and SDE is not an issue then I haven't seen anything that touches the HS51 and its another G down, but has better blacks than the H79 and the smoothest video processing your likely to find.

One strategy might be to get the SX50 now and keep it for games and other bright, high volume needs until the Ruby is out and comes down in price.

Of course this all assumes that Canon will send my unit back dust free and dust proof!

Ken

Thanks for the report Ken. Yep, the Canon is flat out wonderful for watching baseball and football. I could clearly see how the plate ump screwed the Angels and gave the White Sox a free win. :(

Keep us posted on your experience with Canon service. I don't have much to report until my VP30 comes in.

Dan

Enjoyed it as well Ken. We will do it again with a few more PJ and a few more hours to work with :)

I realized last night that I will always have this duplicitous personality (brightness vs contrast)

Right now I would lean towards the H79, especially in a light controlled room like mine. The Canon is just so BRIGHT that it really makes me think twice. It certainly reinforces the need for a bright picture.

My DWIN TV1 obviously is a dinosour but it makes me apreciate the strengths and NEEDS I will require in my next PJ.

So in short:

I want a 1,300 lumen picture at 6500
NO banding
NO rainbows
1920x1080

all for roughly $8K....

Is that a lot to ask :)

Ken and Texas Aggie (Go Longhorns! :D) thanks for the great head to head.

Doesn't this do the same thing that the thingy Digital Connections sells?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591564

Anyone know anything about this guy??

Dan

I really enjoyed the H79, but had to move to the back row to get away from the SDE.

Our source was HDMI out at 720P from my Panasonic S97. After further testing it was found that the analog component out is unsuitable on this player. Although it shows a bit less video noise, it was determined this is due to improper roll off on the high end.
.
If you have total light control and/or a gain screen and SDE is not an issue then I haven't seen anything that touches the HS51 and its another G down, but has better blacks than the H79 and the smoothest video processing your likely to find.

Ken

So Ken you are saying precisely what I have been touting - that one of the best, latest, greatest single DLP units currently shipping that is about twice the price of the SX50 has a very noticeable SDE. I am having a tough time accepting the SDE of the Mitsubishi DLP unit I am using temporarily till my SX50 unit arrives. While I keep hearing folks talk about color accuracy, calibration etc, what is not said is how the SDE affects the perceived "color" of the output. It is especially noticeable in the white and light areas of images. While the "white" might be light and bright, the collective pixel borders of the SDE make the light, white areas to be perceived with a grayish cast. In fact I find the entire image of DLP projectors take on a grayish cast frm its SDE. Perhaps this has been discussed before since it is one of the major drawbacks of most LCD units which have even worse SDE than DLP but this is where LCOS shines. There is literally no SDE so there is no gray color cast caused by the LCOS design.

I see you keep touting the Sony HS51. While I have never done a side by side with the SX50, I did see it in an idea dark setup at a local dealer and I was not impressed. The unit had a noticeable SDE which required the LCD defocus trick to make it tolerable. It has a decent picture but it has a far lower lumen output than the SX50 and to get its blacker blacks it uses the iris "trick" which makes the image even dimmer. Turn that off and then how good are its blacks?

I did a quickie test for you using an Apple Mac mini and I don’t care what the recent reviewer said, the Oppo simply blew the Apple Mac mini away. I could not even get the color to calibrate on the DLP unit using Apple's built-in color calibration scheme. It appears to not be DLP friendly and there was a lot of DVD video noise that the Oppo seems to suppress. I even kicked up the brightness settings as per that report and still the Oppo is way better than the Mac mini. Another issue with the Mac min is that it does not have an optical or digital audio output. I have not been reading the Mac threads here but you would have to use its stereo mini-pin audio output jacks or a USB audio adapter of some type.

Perhaps others have found a fix for the Mac mini audio issue but from the brief test I did the Oppo is still the best DVD player out there for the least bucks in much the same vain as the Canon SX50 is in the projector field. Ken, if you consider all the tests you have run, it appears that you have come to the same conclusion. I should also be so dastardly to point out to those that are jumping on the three DLP unit band wagon, that if it does use the same (or nearly?) TI DMD chip times three as the H79 then in a perfect alignment calibration the SDE will also be objectionable and that will have it apparent affects on light/white color too and how much more does that unit cost compared to the SX50 - six times the price?

One last question Ken. In two separate commercial test reports the SX50 measured about 2000 lumens. You mentioned you measured 900 or 1200 lumens. Is this after you filtered it and calibrated it? If so, how many notches did you turn down the brightness to nearly cut the output of the SX50 in half and is that really necessary? Do you really make the picture that much better by going through all the gyrations you have in the pursuit of a perfect color calibration? I’d bet that without your color calibration tools your friends and family could use the SX50 at the default sRGB setting and barley notice the difference with your down lumen’ed, filter in place setup. And as you said, you guys couldn’t even get the H79 to calibrate. Perhaps we are spending a wee bit too much time looking at the images and not watching the movie? :)

Icon Master

SDE visibility is relative to seating distance. If you want to sit closer, LCOS or CRT are better choices unless you want to defocus the lens or use an IMX or an anamorphic lens with a DLP.

I'm sitting 1.5 x screen width from a 720dlp with Prismasonic H1000 and I don't see pixels or screendoor.

I found the H78 easy to calibrate using Colorfacts, so I don't understand why there were problems. The H78 benefits from an fl-day filter too and is worth using to dim the image if it's well above giving 12ft lamberts and will increase the CR as well.

Gary.

Hey Icon,

Yeah, SDE is just a function of seating distance. People vary in their sensitivity, but once you're beyond your distance SDE should not be an issue. White will simply be the amount of white (hopefully D65) light that reaches your eye. If the SD is adding a "cast" to the color then you need to move back a little further.

In my situation, I'm very sensitive to SDE and more importantly the seating in my living room has the closest viewers at only .5 screen widths. So LCOS is about the only way to go if I don't want my family or guests to get SD.

So the HS51 is a fantastic projector with the smoothest most perfect video you're likely to see, but you have to be far enough away to get rid of the SDE.

Thanks for checking out the Mini. It sounds like its not the simple solution I'm looking for. Actually I think I would recommend the Oppo as well. I've got the Panny with the HDCP helper and that's what I've settled on. It costs too much to get decent analog video and the digital out on these cheap players is very close to good analog.

I can't agree on skipping the calibration. The image is just so much more pleasing and realistic once you get the grayscale right.

I was surprised about the 1000 lumens in quiet mode, but that's what it measured.

I'm getting extremely close to just watching movies with this thing. We watched a movie last night 720P HDMI to the SX50 in FULL mode (1400x788) and I was simply astonished with the image. And the image was wonderful even with some lights on.

Ken, would you summarize your settings all in one list here please? I'm a little confused as to what exactly you did to alter the factory defaults. Also, any comment on my post above?

Thanks.

Dan

SDE visibility is relative to seating distance. If you want to sit closer, LCOS or CRT are better choices unless you want to defocus the lens or use an IMX or an anamorphic lens with a DLP.

I'm sitting 1.5 x screen width from a 720dlp with Prismasonic H1000 and I don't see pixels or screendoor.
Gary.

I have to take issue with the concept that "seeing" SDE is relative to seating distance. Yes - it is true that physically seeing the actual lines or cell structure of the systems SDE is a function of the type of projector, the size of the image projected, the distance back from the image and the ability of the observer to discern detail at the seating distance.

HOWEVER, after living with an LCOS unit for three or more months, I now see how the black of the SDE even if it is not discernable at a given distance affects the color of the image - especially in the light areas. Depending on how much of a percentage of the image stays black (i.e. the portion of the image that is physically the lines of in the SDE), this black stays there on the screen regardless of what is being shown in the surrounding non-SDE space. Now consider how color printing works. The eye is fooled into seeing colors by a subtractive process. Black is one of the four printing subtractive "colors" - the others being cyan, magenta and yellow. Since the black portion of the SDE is always present even though the other projected colors are red, green and blue, the net affect of the ever present black of the SDE is to make the image appear darker and it gives it a grayish cast.

It takes having used a projector without SDE to see how digital projectors using DLP or LCD schemes have this perceived gray cast caused by the SDE even at a distance when you are incapable of seeing the actual lines. This is absolutely a fact and it is a near none-issue only with LCOS units like the SX50. We have just gotten used to accepting this effect and that is why I keep hearing you all say it is "merely a function of how far back you sit." NOPE!!!!!! SDE is a black that is taking up a constant amount of screen space. It is always "printed" there so it has a net effect on the overall color tint of the projected image. Pure whites have a gray cast from it but in fact all colors are affected.

Icon Master

Isn't the aperature ratio for DLP up to like 90% now? And isn't LCOS like 92%? If so, it's probably not the "screen door" (read: thin black lines) that made the SX50 preferrable but the higher resolution. If you had a comparable resolution DLP (which I realized doesn't exist in the HT world) I highly doubt there would be much of a visible difference...

other than the almost indescribably "smoothing" effect LCOS has which is caused by some sort of pixel bleed inherent in the technology but generally preferred for it's filmlike look. And I'm not arguing the color saturation can't be better on LCOS either, but that is probably more due to the 3-chips vs. 1-chip and less with the pixel grid tainting the colors in some way.

Anyway, I doubt screen door was the cause of either the color differences or more filmlike quality of the SX50. I bet it was more the 3-chips, the (desireable) pixel bleed, and the resolution upgrade (20% more pixels in 16:9 mode assuming no anamorphic lens was used).
-Matt

At any distance, the SX50 has a much more filmlike image, IMO, than DLP or LCD, particularly the latter where fill ratios are still pretty low. Of course, affordable 1080P three chip DLP would made this debate moot as LCOS will probably never be able to overcome its CR and black level weakness. However, I think I'll be waiting a real long time for a three chip 1080P DLP that streets for $3500. A real long time. :)

While single chip 1080P DLP might address this somewhat, it is still going to have that problem projecting brightness because of the very low efficiency of light usage. At one time, we had hoped the Archimedes color wheel would address this problem, but it apparently didn't fly. Only three chip devices can give you that incredible combination of brightness, color, CR and black. But as long as they cost as much as a mid-priced car, few people including me, will own one.

I've seen DLP and CRT in the same room at the same time, and quite often the DLP had a better white. I can't say that I've ever seen the grey cast or heard anyone else mention such a thing before.

The DILA I saw had poor color balance across the screen when doing white, so unless the shading is done that can look worse too. I liked the look of the DILA and thought it was very smooth, but a little too grey for my liking. The Qualia isn't like that apparently and the Ruby sounds pretty good too. I'd love to see one, as well as the SX50 which sounds appealling too.

Gary.

Apple's DVD player app is not suitable for people running FP. You may get better results running VLC, but even that may not be up to the task. Either way, as you say, you will likely get better results with the Oppo or panasonic dvd players with far less tinkering.

THe digital out has been more or less solved (some glitches for some people) with an M-Audio product. There are threads about it over in the HTPC Mac subforum.

BB

I talked extensively with Canon about the dust fix. It is real, but they could not give me a date or serial number to know if the fix is applied. Apperently, even if the fix has been applied in manufacturing sometimes it wasn't done right. (maybe early fixes)

Anyway. The only sure way to get it is to send it to the Canon New Jersey depot with a note saying you want the "dust fix" and the latest firmware. The techs there are trained on this.

Ken

Ken,

Can you confirm Canon is familiar with the dust/software fix?
I've talked to Stumpfl last saturday and they said they have the developed the dust fix and new software version (SX50 "second edition") themselves. Because they have put money and effort in this it is only available for customers of Stumpfl.
The people I've talked to at the Canon support centers in the Netherlands and New Jersey were not familiar with the dust/software fix. The only thing they could offer was to send the unit in so they can investigate the problem.
Currently I don't have good feelings Canon will fix the unit right when I send it in for service.

Martin.

Martin,

I'll know for sure in a few weeks. I sent mine off Friday.

The guy I talked to was familiar with the "Dust Fix" but was fuzzy on the firmware. He said he didn't think there was a firmware update, but to put it in the letter and the techs would load it. (if it exists) The only way to tell anything will be to use it and see - when it comes back.

I'd like to find the contact info for the actual Product Manager for this projector. I assume they are in Japan, but may have a US/Euro counterpart.

I also wouldn't have any problems purchasing from Stumpfl if they've made any improvements. With global shipping its not a big deal.

Ken

Canon could sell a few SX50's right now if Houstonian's could see their Astro's on it in 720P!

Big Screen Sports Nuts need to check this out!

What? Wife needs a reading light on and so its back to the puny 50" plasma? Not with the SX50 :)

Am I right, Dan?

Even my wife is on board now. (baseball fan)

Ken

Ken,
Can you confirm Canon is familiar with the dust/software fix?
I've talked to Stumpfl last saturday and they said they have the developed the dust fix and new software version (SX50 "second edition") themselves. Because they have put money and effort in this it is only available for customers of Stumpfl.
The people I've talked to at the Canon support centers in the Netherlands and New Jersey were not familiar with the dust/software fix. The only thing they could offer was to send the unit in so they can investigate the problem.
Currently I don't have good feelings Canon will fix the unit right when I send it in for service.
Martin.

The demo SX50 unit I had was fixed by the repair department in New Jersey. It had no dust blobs after nearly two months of heavy use and even survived hurricane Katrina. Someone is pulling your leg when they try to say they have an exclusive rights to such a fix and I would run, not walk away from any company that does such a stunt.

Secondly, the warranties may vary. Canon USA gives a three year warranty and during the first year you can even request and get a loaner projector while yours is being repaired. Does "Stumpfl" give the same three year, first year loaner warranty terms?

Icon Master

At any distance, the SX50 has a much more filmlike image, IMO, than DLP or LCD, particularly the latter where fill ratios are still pretty low. Of course, affordable 1080P three chip DLP would made this debate moot as LCOS will probably never be able to overcome its CR and black level weakness.
While single chip 1080P DLP might address this somewhat, it is still going to have that problem projecting brightness because of the very low efficiency of light usage. A.

On "paper" you would think that a 1080p DLP unit would be ideal but then if the SDE is still there whether it is one or three DMD based, it will still look digital and not film-like as does LCOS. I think that is the big issue facing DLP - the SDE! LCOS has its CR to deal with so neither technology is perfect but for $4K flawed as it "be" show me something that bests the SX50.

And suppose, just suppose Canon does have a 16:9 HT LCOS unit in the works....

Icon Master

Icon,

I saw the Projection Design 1080P single chip at Cedia and its screen door is similar to the SX50 - hardly exists. Nothing like 720P DLP.

I do wonder how easy a 2-3 hour viewing session would be on the eyes vs. 3chip? I can definitely feel the difference between my 1 chip DLP's (both FP and RP) and the Canon.

You may be correct about the Euro models having a different duration. It would be easy to find out though.

I'd really like to have the tearing at 480p/i fixed so that I could set my cable box to native. As it is the 480i/p channels are not right, so I have to leave it on 720P fixed output. Although I use the projector almost exclusively for movies. Astros vs. Cardinals is a notable exception :)

I'd definitely like to see another pass by Canon. If they could do 16:9 and/or 2000:1 (or better) CR I'd buy for sure. The Ruby will be better IMO, but at 3X the price I'd stick with the Canon. Especially if it maintains its strenghs. (small, bright)

Ken

Icon,

In case that's a hint and you have a line into Canon - they really need to add 12 bit video processing. The smooth, high resolution of LCOS deserves nothing less. And with Canon's internal expertise with such things they might as well go to 14 and be done with it.

Ken

Icon,
I'd really like to have the tearing at 480p/i fixed so that I could set my cable box to native. As it is the 480i/p channels are not right, so I have to leave it on 720P fixed output. Although I use the projector almost exclusively for movies. Astros vs. Cardinals is a notable exception :)

I'd definitely like to see another pass by Canon. If they could do 16:9 and/or 2000:1 (or better) CR I'd buy for sure. The Ruby will be better IMO, but at 3X the price I'd stick with the Canon. Especially if it maintains its strenghs. (small, bright)
Ken

If such a product does come out, it would be subject to the CR limits that JVC LCOS has since they would likely still be making the LCOS chips plus whatever the Canon Aisys optical scheme could do to enhance it.

It is obvious you and I think a lot a like in regards to investments in this technology. It simply makes zero sense to spend $20K on a 720P 3xDMD unit that is likely little better if any at producing an image than the SX50 and from what I have read here it has a most noticeable screen door effect. To see our fellow compulsively sick HT enthusiasts throw their hard earned money at something that will be obsolete in a year and worth then 25% of its initial cost shows how misguided some of us are on our quest for the perfect HT projector.

(In dollars and cents if you watch say one movie/DVD per night - that translates into $15,000/365= $41 per flick and more if you watch less. If you bought a Qualia at $30K then you also amortized about $40 per movie you watched when you buy whatever a year or two hence that will best it. Hmmm $40 per flick plus the $20 cost of the DVD if you buy it. It is way, way cheaper to go out to the movies including concessions when you are willing to throw away $20K every year or so on the quest for the perfect projector. Obviously that is lunacy unless you have money to burn and a few here have admitted they do and they are proud of it!)

If you are correct and the 1080p DLP chip has LCOS class near invisible SDE then a three DMD unit with 1080P and 1500 to 2000 lumens at $10K or less would own this market (till someone makes one cheaper). I think that unit at that price is several years off. I am not convinced Sony even with its SXRD Ruby will win or even come close since Sony has not solved the optics of its SXRD/LCOS scheme making their units dim and huge. The Qualia weighs in at 80 pounds and the Ruby at 40 or so. Not many folks are going to hang either of those on their ceilings and neither unit cracks the 1000 lumen light figure.

For now it appears that the SX50 continues to retain the most practical and "best" projector for the money award and there is nothing even close and as bright for its $4k cost.

Icon Master

Why does canon advertise that sx 50 can do 16:9 format.
Is this native 4:3 and compatible with 16:9 video formats?
Can I fill a HDTV format(16:9) screen using this projector?

Thx

Ken, I am starting to experience the dust problem. I would like to ship this unit to Canon over the Thanksgiving holidays, so I will be awaiting your results eagerly. Not concerned with any firmware issues as even my current setup seems to make these moot, and when I get the DVDO VP30 so that I can feed this projective at native rate, it should become a total non issue.

Icon, I wouldn't put it quite the way you do but I certainly agree that spending nearly $30 grand on a projector is definitely not for everyone, especially me. Among other things, the depreciation factor is truly breath taking. However, many expensive toys share this problem and I think most people who buy one of these understand it. It's their choice to spend the money anyway.

Unfortunately, the field of choice for bright, high resolution, medium to long throw projectors is EXTREMELY limited at this point. I like the direction that SIM is going. Hopefully, in three years or so they'll offer a 1080P three chipper in the $15K street price range at which point I would find this expense justified. In the mean time, the SX50 is a decent compromise.



Dan

Dan,

The problem is that tearing occurs at native rate. Even when you get the 60.02 Hz refresh. Maybe DVDO could figure out a magic match for a paying customer - don't know.

I wonder how people using anamorphic lenses are dealing with this issue?

On your list of settings, my latest calibrated setup with my temporary unit is:

720P HDMI out of Panny S97 into
Kei's HDCP box into
SX50 DVI

SX50 is set to FULL and Cinema with all image controls except Color Adjust set to 0 (defaults) The Color adjust is Red 0, Green 0, Blue -2.

I'm using the Panny's brightness and contrast settings to adjust levels. Color decoder on the SX50 is excellent.

I advise against using sRGB. It is the closest to D65 OOTB, but Canon is doing something strange with 100 IRE white. No matter what you do with the color controls it doesn't vary. Everything below varries as expected. I simply don't trust something that strange. Cinema is very close and behaves in a more predictable manner.

rrunner102,

Just send the SX50 720P and it will use 1400x788 of its 1400x1050 pixels to create a 16:9 display.

Icon,

I'm voting my wallet on the SX50, but my opinion is that the Ruby is 4-5X better at 3X the cost. If I get a Ruby, I'll keep my SX50 for lights on sports, and all gaming. Nothing is going to touch the SX50 for these applications. The Sports Bar Association should send out a bulletin on this projector.

Ken

OK Ken, sounds like your settings and mine are almost the same. I backed blue off a little more.

Now if you feed the SX50 at 720P and set the projector to "Full", does it vertically stretch everything?

When do you expect to get your projector back?

Dan

No, it's just using the full width. It's still 16:9. Is your's doing something different? I think its FULL. It's the first one in the list, TRUE SIZE is the last one. (I'm at work)

That's a good question. I'll track the package and make sure they have it. One thing I don't like is that Canon doesn't use RA numbers to track the incident.

Ken

Ken,

1) Doesn't Canon have a replacement / loaner program for year 1 of the 3 yr.
warranty ?

2) Does the tearing you are getting happen only in 4:3 mode, or also in the 720p mode ? I would only use the PJ in 16:9, and I have a RP theater, so 4:3 mode and any light spill / masking issue would not be relevant in my setup.

3) Related to #2, is any 720p source "OK" for the Canon ? i.e, no / minimal banding, artifacting, tearing, etc... ? You mention 60.02 hz producing tearing, but I take it this is in 4:3 ? What I want to know is if this PJ can be made to be virtually artifact free, in 16:9 mode only, with a particular input signal (720p?), so that with a up-scaling dvd player or scaler outputting that particular signal, you would always be artifact free (as much as is possible) with the only artifacts remaining being a function of the de-interlacing or scaling in the player or scaler feeding the PJ ?

Thanks for any insight you may have - I'm trying to decide between Ruby or SX50 in replacing my aging JVC G series. Your thought about SX50 while waiting on price decrease / debugging of Ruby has been my thought also, as well as keeping it for "lights on" viewing even If I go Ruby, since in my RP setup I can have multiple PJs mounted at once, with no visible impact on the theater room.

- Chris

I notice some comments here about grey screens.
I am particularly interested in the SX0 for still photograph projection. Does anyone have any recommendations on ideal screens?

Chris,

Yeah, I have a loaner right now.

720P is fine. No problems whatsoever. I haven't tried 1080i much, but I think its ok too, 480p/i and native rate tear on video.

Native rate from a PC is fantastic for still images and normal computer work. I set mine up in our conference room rear pro setup at work and everyone loved it. But if you're playing a movie it will occasionally tear. Not often, but not perfect.

The Ruby lacks some of the significant advantages of the SX50 (size, weight, price, brightness) but is in a whole other league frankly. I only saw hand picked HD on the Ruby and Cedia, and good bright HD looks very close on the SX50. Still, I feel like I can say its in a much higher league all around.

I've seen the SX50 on Grayhawk, HighPower, WidePower, and some Vutec rear plus 3M Vikuiti rear material. It looks great on all of them. It can look a little bright in the dark on the highpower if you are in the cone.

Ken

Thanks for the info, Ken.

Does your loaner differ much from your other unit in setup parameters ? Dust ?

Thanks,

- Chris

They are about the same. The one I sent off arrived with zero dust, but got some after a day or so. My loaner is actually my original and it arrived with one big one and collected more.

Performance seems identical.

Although when I get the one I'm keeping back I'll compare exact calibration in Cinema mode with the same exact sources.

Ken

Ken, can you describe the tearing you get from a PC? I have been using my SX50 for 6 months now and have never seen it tear once using a HTPC. I use native panel resolution on TRUE SIZE, Cinema and 60Hz.

Regarding screens, I'm taking down my temporary sheet :rolleyes: and purchasing a Stewart studiotec 130. A bit of an investment, but the screen will last lots longer than the projector and the Stewart studiotech is the most accurate screen around.

Regards,
Dean

Dan,
Icon,
I'm voting my wallet on the SX50, but my opinion is that the Ruby is 4-5X better at 3X the cost. If I get a Ruby, I'll keep my SX50 for lights on sports, and all gaming. Nothing is going to touch the SX50 for these applications. The Sports Bar Association should send out a bulletin on this projector.
Ken

Ken - I don't think the Qualia's output at the ideal dealer setup with totally dark room looked that much if any better than the SX50 even with some controlled lights on so are you saying the Ruby is better than the Qualia? Of course I am partial to big, bright images and the Qualia and the Ruby fall way short in the lumen department. Yes, I am sure the Sony's have superior video circuits but the SX50's color is lush and bright. Remember the discussion we had about how the human eyes sensitivity to color falls way off under low light conditions? I think the 800 lumen or less Ruby would disappoint you after living with the SX50. The Guru's here are having a tough time accepting the human eye's variance to color sensitivity versus brightness and it simply amazes me to see folks here accepting and spending big bucks on low lumen projectors. Every time I tried one of the low lumen units even with all light off I found my eyes "thirsting" for light. I suppose that to is a personal thing and as I have gotten older my eyes do not have the same quality of night vision I had in my twenties.

Ken - on your tearing issue - I never saw it on any of the three SX50's I tested with either 480i/p component output from my Direct TV receiver nor from my DVD recorder in standard or progressive mode. Have you had the same problem with more than one source feeding the SX50 480i/p?

When you talk about "tearing," are you referring to the image bending or ripping usually at the top or bottom? I never saw that using component input or even via DVI with either the Oppo or Momitsu units I have..

Icon Master

Has anyone tried blowing out dust by jetting air into the projector's air intake or applying a strong vacuum on the output of the fan? Any danger of damage with this?

Short of taking the projector apart, which I'm not about to do, I'm looking for a way of dislodging the big dust blob I have. Apparently, this stuff comes from sloppy (not clean) manufacturing, rather than the environment. I'm thinking that if I could send a short time higher velocity of air through the unit, the dust might be flushed out.

Has anyone tried blowing out dust by jetting air into the projector's air intake or applying a strong vacuum on the output of the fan? Any danger of damage with this?

Short of taking the projector apart, which I'm not about to do, I'm looking for a way of dislodging the big dust blob I have. Apparently, this stuff comes from sloppy (not clean) manufacturing, rather than the environment. I'm thinking that if I could send a short time higher velocity of air through the unit, the dust might be flushed out.

Yes - I tried that and it did not work. Blowing into the unit that way may have stirred things up and made things worse.

The dust is caused by air w/dust leaking into the light path. A while back one of our fellow SX50 buddies who lived in Europe(?) in a place far from any Canon service center took one apart and showed us a picture of the light path. (That post may still be on an old SX50 thread.) There are three areas with two openings, one on the top and another on the bottom, where he could see into the light path that exposed the LCOS panels. You have to dismantle the unit to get to them and they are in the rear portion of the unit well away from the front air cooling path. He was able to blow into those opening to clear the dust but after a few weeks the dust came back. The fix, whatever it is, either secures those openings (with thermal tape?) or it closes whatever gaps there are that allows dust to seep pass the filter into the unit and into those gaps. His post was well before the fix from Canon.

Now some early units did have dust in them from the plant but the later models did not so the problem is a seepage / gap issue and not a dusty manufacturing environment.

Icon Master

Don;t spin the fan when you blow into the unit, stop it with a pencil or something.

The tearing is just a line that moves through the image. It's splitting the image into a top and bottom part and the two parts are slighting offset with respect to each other. I can't remember if it moved from top to bottom or the other way.

We saw it on component and digital input from a dvd player, a PC, and maybe (not sure) an accupel. It only shows up on busy video. (happens somewhere in the video evaluation sequences of DVE)

To tell the truth I've only seen it in Standard mode on the unit I still have. Once I figured out 720P is king, I've only used that. I'll try to do some more tests in Cinema mode. I'm not the only one whose reported the tearing. It's all over European pages and Li On reported it here as well.

Anyone who prefers the image on the SX50 to a Qualia should count themselves lucky. IMO the SX50 is untouchable in some ways, but if you have a dedicated light controlled theater (and discriminating eyes :) ) you'll take the Sony.

Of course not everyone, including me, has a dedicated light controlled theater. And not everyone has $10k+ for a projector. Heck, not everyone has $3.5k to spend.

I tried blowing air in the intake and I tried thumping the unit in a few places. I suspect the blobs are electrostatically attached. They aren't just going to fall off.

Ken

Thanks Icon and Ken. Guess I'll have to send it in at some point. Ken keep us posted on your travels with Canon service.

Dan

Anyone who prefers the image on the SX50 to a Qualia should count themselves lucky. IMO the SX50 is untouchable in some ways, but if you have a dedicated light controlled theater (and discriminating eyes :) ) you'll take the Sony.
Ken

I never had them side by side and I don't doubt that the Sony is a more sophisticated, more controllable unit but I like big and bright images. My 16:9 images are ten foot diagonal and I have a StudioTek 1.3 gain "white" screen. From the controlled conditions demo I saw with the Qualia I'd be willing to bet it is not bright enough to satisfy my itch for a big, bright images as does the SX50. And reviewing the specs I lifted from the german test report I didn't see where the CR was that remarkable compared to the SX50 until you put it into Apeture 2 mode and then the lumens fell down to 600.

So you might get a great high contrast image then but then the room would have to be totally dark and it ain't going to be on a ten foot screen either. Well to me a six foot screen is not a serious home theater. As I said previously, I had for twenty plus year a SONY six foot one piece folded-mirror projection TV set. Six foot screens to me are beginner home theaters. So here you have this humongous 80 or 40 pound unit hanging over your head and to have it bright enough you need to limit your screen size to six or seven feet and have a perfectly dark viewing "cave." Nope, I am not going backwards to those beginner days again and especially not at those inflated prices (unless you figure you are paying by the pound). :)

I'll bet if you made the projected image a four or five foot one with the Qualia or Ruby it would even look like a photograph. Big, err, Little Deal! Go buy a RPT at that point or a nice LCD flat screen instead. In fact the six foot image is now almost available in LCD and it is a whole lot less than a Qualia and you would not have to reinforce your ceiling and home foundation to have one.

Icon Master

I'm with Icon on this one.

Try sitting 1x distance to a 10 or 12 foot screen watching a high def source with the bright, rich color picture that the SX50 throws with no screendoor. I have not seen another projector do this as well as the SX50, and the experience is immersive.

I also agree that the Qualia can give a better picture, and the more expensive DLP projectors do better black. However the picture quality is mostly a function of the source not the projector, and if you can get good shadow detail (which the SX50 can do if setup right) then black level is less of an issue.

No other projector in this price range can give you the quality big screen experience that the SX50 does. How is that for justifying my purchase :)

Regards,
Dean

Hey, I didn't spend my money on the SX50, because I thought it threw a bad image. :)

But that doesn't mean I'm going to be delusional about it.

Face it, once you turn the lights out completely you can see and use a very very high contrast ratio.

Now, turn on a dim reading light and the high CR is unusable.

It all just depends on what your environment and goals are.

Remember that you have to discount the SX50's lumens by 25% on 16:9 material just because of the unused panel portion. (unless you're using an anamorphic lens?)

On a 116" diagonal my SX50 measured roughly 1000 lumens over that surface and so was putting out about 1250 lumens total. (in quiet mode)

Just doing a little math a 120" diag 1.78 image requires 660 lumens for SMPTE's 13 fL. Only 330 lumens with screen gain of 2.

So for a light controlled room you can get a nice big image without so many lumens. Turn on a reading light though and you'll be missing the SX50.

We should know the calibrated lumen output of the Ruby very soon. Remember to compare it to the discounted calibrated SX50 number which is about 1000 lumens.

Ken

Read the Ruby review, but it will do 120" diagonal with a HighPower easy. Even allowing for bulb dimming. And you can pick either Super High CR with Iris Off, or Insanely High CR with Iris Auto.

(this is with lights off viewing only)

I say a Ruby + SX50 and you're covered for any situation! And if you watch a lot of sports and play games the bulb savings will make the SX50 practically a freebie :)

Ken

It's a great projector but we still have to work out a few issues. Like dust. We're quite happy with ours but I'd never pretend it is the equal of something costing 2.5 times as much. As our Qualia users are learning, it is pretty costly to pay a lot for a projector only to see it lose half its value in a few months.

Dan,

I never did answer you about that HDCP stripper. If it works it would be very nice indeed.

I use my Kei Special all the time for both cable and dvd. I'm thinking about using its dual output as a sort of 2nd zone driver to my DLP in our bedroom. I wonder what it does if the atttached display has HDCP? Hopefully it just passes it throuigh.

Watched Cinderella tonight with my daughter. What a flawless transfer with vibrant saturated colors. Not a single frame of the movie had one flaw, and the Panny S97 had perfect scaling and no macroblocking.

Ken

Remember that you have to discount the SX50's lumens by 25% on 16:9 material just because of the unused panel portion. (unless you're using an anamorphic lens?)

On a 116" diagonal my SX50 measured roughly 1000 lumens over that surface and so was putting out about 1250 lumens total. (in quiet mode)
Ken

That reminds me - you never did answer me on how you got your SX50's lumen output down to 1250/1000 lumens when two independent tests in trade magazines had it at 2000 and 1960 or somewhere thereabout. If low lumen mode is 25% less than the 2000 lumens then it should measure 1500 lumens. How did you manage to get it down to 1250? In other words where did the other 250 lumens go?

You can also be assured it you are talking about an Optima H79 factory rated at about 1000 lumens it isn't putting out anything near that and it is likely to be more like 500 to 800 lumens since all these manufacturers play a lumen inflation game.

Icon Master

It's a great projector but we still have to work out a few issues. Like dust. We're quite happy with ours but I'd never pretend it is the equal of something costing 2.5 times as much. As our Qualia users are learning, it is pretty costly to pay a lot for a projector only to see it lose half its value in a few months.

Dan - it is OK to pretend! :)

Not only do you have the bulb cost with the "Q," you have the "I" beam reinforcements in your attic/ceiling and how is that huge behemoth going to look hanging from a typical eight foot ceiling? Then there is the $3000(?) bulb cost... Sony has hooked a lot of suckers on its "Q"... and now it is worth half its initial cost since the Ruby was introduced.

That is a pretty steep depreciation curve plus the cost per movie watched factor that I alluded to previously and I forgot to factor in the bulb cost on the "Q". That makes watching a DVD a day about $100 per DVD. I don't know about you guys, but adult movie tickets are about $7 here and the popcorn drink combo is $8. AMC now has free large drink and popcorn refills so taking four to a movie with a fifty to sixty foot screen is going to cost $50 or less. (I am not factoring in hotdogs.)

Which is better - paying $100 per flick to watch in on a Qualia in your home on a six to eight foot screen (w/o popcorn and drink) or paying $50 and watching it on a 50 foot screen with damn good Orville popcorn and a fountain caliber diet coke?

The SX50 of course is way cheaper per DVD watched so you can throw in the popcorn and coke cost while watching it on a ten to twenty (2x) foot screen in your home. The SX50 might still factor to be cheaper than going out to the movie theater.

The Q and Ruby just don't compete if all costs, size and brightness are all factored in. Dan you are a bit enamoured by the Ruby's higher projector cost and have never factored in all of the costs as I have laid out for you. Get off the Sony bandwagon till they get their optics right and shrink their units, increase their brightness and drop their costs - and bulb costs.

Icon Master

Icon, you don't see me lining up to buy a Ruby or Qualia now, do you? :)

For my personal parameters, the Ruby is too new, too expensive and the lamp costs too much. I mean we're talking about someone here (me) who uses his HT so much it takes two years to wear out a lamp! But for someone who uses it a lot more, I can see how the Ruby would represent a real break through. For someone who bought the Qualia, well, I hope they get a lot of enjoyment out of it for all that money!

My next projector will be 1080P three chip DLP. This one should do nicely for the next three years which is how long I figure it will take for the price to come down to $10K or so for those. They will probably bury me with the 1080P version of the Sim C3X, along with this computer I've been using for years and will continue to use as it takes care of ALL my needs. Once a technology reaches a certain point, I no longer see the need to upgrade.

Enough on this topic. We need to get the dust and firmware issues fully resolved and develop a good understanding of how to optimize the SX50. Both you and Ken are off to a good start on those. I'm looking forward to further details.

Dan

We need to get the dust and firmware issues fully resolved and develop a good understanding of how to optimize the SX50. Both you and Ken are off to a good start on those. I'm looking forward to further details.
Dan

It will be interesting to see if the new unit being shipped directly to me from factory inventory will have a proper dust fix like the one I had from the NJ service department. My rep said if it is not, to send it up to service and get it fixed properly. Ken is ahead of me since I have yet to get my new demo unit. We all need to see how he fares with his. I will be as pissed as anyone if the one I get post redone by the repair group is not properly fixed from a dust blob perspective since I had one that was.

Back to image tearing... Again I never saw it on mine but the Mitsubishi DLP unit I am using connected to the same in-attic AC outlet was showing faint annoying roll bars going completely across the screen and in any mode - component or video or dvi. I traced it to what is called a ground loop meaning (to me) the ground or neutral part of the AC connection in my attic is not quite at the same potential (voltage) of the one my receiver/tuner equipment is plugged into. Not being of a mind to rewire my home, I took the quick fix of running a power cord down from the attic to the same outlet that drives my equipment. That eliminated the roll "bars." I wonder if the tearing which seems to to effect not every SX50 owner could have a cause based in AC grounding or cable issues?

I don't recall seeing these when I used the SX50 but it is possible that Hurricane Katrina and the ensuing power outage and restoration did something to my home's wiring. I may eventually pull some new cables back to the power panel but I thought it worth mentioning how using different AC outlets for projectors that are fed signals from equipment powered from other outlets can have an adverse affect on equipment sensitive to these grounding or voltage differences.

Icon Master

Thread fatigue...

Can someone answer these questions simply:

1. Is there a satisfactory way of really calibrating this projector? If one added a CC filter would we be able to avoid red push by calibrating properly?

2. Is the dust problem fixed?

I'll let Ken respond to the first one. As to the second, it appears that the units being sold out there may not have this fix and you may have to send your projector to the service facility in NJ that apparently knows how to do this fix. Ken and I got our units fairly close together several months ago and neither has the dust fix from the factory.

Dan

Raul,

What red push? "Push" is a problem with the color decoding. By all accounts the SX50's decoder is dead on. My two units are.

My first attempts at calibration were in Standard mode. This was a mistake and a waste of time. The Cinema mode is relatively close OOTB. Read my posts newest first to get more info.

I would like to try a filter to correct below 20 IRE and then dial in the rest with the color adjust. I feel like it could be very successful.

I will certainly report on the "Dust Fix" as soon as I get mine back from Canon NJ.

Icon,

Tearing is nothing like hum bars (ground loop) and I know the difference :)
I'll try to look into it some more, but its going to be tough with the Astros in the World Series. I don't really get that much projector time.

BTW, the Ruby lamp is $1k not $3k like the Q. Still very expensive, but not nearly as bad as the Q's.

Dan,

ditto with your "Enough on this topic" comment.


Ken

I read nearly all the posts here since in a month or so I do plan on getting the SX50, predetermined to send it back for the possible dust problem. At present I use a Canon LV-X1 XGA projector connected to a computer, the composite out on an ATI All-In-Wonder 9600. I have an Animorphic lens for those types of DVDs. The ATI card lets you choose "Full Screen" for animorphic movies, (actually you can set it to almost any custom setting, sometimes on movies that aren't animorphic, and there are a few, I can custom set the ATI so I still get a full video, it obviously isn't as good as true animorphic but it's still an improvement). Anyway, when I replace the Canon LV-X1 with the SX50 still using composite, I imagine it would still work without too much fuss. Likewise, for now, I have a 4:3 glass-beaded movie screen. Any suggestions? (Silly to ask isn't it?) Am I wrong- composite outputs are totaly free of HDMI or HDCP?

PS My LV-X1 has been turning green, except for the last quarter of the image to the right, that part's still OK. Added reason to replace it! The guarantee is for three years, it started acting up just three weeks after that! :eek:

Morritec,

I think you mean Component? (three rca connector colored Red, Green, Blue)

Anyway, you'll want to upgrade your video card to one with DVI out. Your current model doesn't support DVI out and is probably limiting component out resolution to 480P.

If you like the All In Wonder stuff the AIW X600 or higher will do DVI out. I've got a non-AIW X700 and it is awesome with the SX50.

With DVI you can run native rate or 720P (if you need to to avoid image tearing on DVD's)

If you get image tearing at 1400x1050 then you won't be able to use your animorphic lens. Not everyone is having this problem.

Ken

Ken

Thanks for the reply!

I connect my projector to the same connection you would use to connect a computer monitor, I realize there can be some confusion there, for me anyhow. My projector detects the 1024x768 and sets itself thusly. Would it still use that same resolution while watching DVDs?

I'll check into the AIW x600 or even higher, to see the specs.

Thanks again.

Ray

I'm in the market to finally replace my JVC G10 (less than 50 hours on new bulb if anyone's looking). But I've been out of the projector shopping mode for some time. In my quick refresher course to this point the SX50 is leading the pack but I have a few of questions...

HDMI: As I understand it, this projector doesn't support HDMI, I've steered clear of the discussions regarding HDMI since it hadn't effected me until now. So I'm a bit fuzzy on the subject. With this projector not supporting HDMI does that mean that it won't be able to play HD-DVD / BluRay at HD resolution? Does this also mean that it won't be able to play protected HD content from my Comcast box via DVI? If so, isn't that a pretty big deal breaker for most potential buyers?

Xenon: Or lack thereof. I love the natural colors and rich reds I get from my G10, am I going to sacrifice any of that with this projector due to it's lack of a Xenon bulb?

Panamorph: Will this projector work with my Panamorph lens (1st generation oil based)? Will I gain anything from using it?

Ruby: I'm also considering the Ruby, but from the sounds of it brightness is a bit of an issue (I have a 110" wide screen). Resolution and brightness are my biggest concerns (contrast is less of an issue to me). Should I even be considering a Ruby?

Thanks!

Tough Questions.

HDMI. I don't see much problem between HDMI/DVI.

No HDCP is a pain, but not insurmountable. There is a HDCP distribution amp (little black box) that takes care of it for $300 or so. It's not as convenient or elegant as built in HDCP, but it works. I use one.

Panamorph should work. Shoot them an email to verify. I think they posted that they tested with an SX50. I believe they recommended the newer units with sharper optics to resolve all of the SX50's pixels.

Xenon, I don't know.

I'm considering the Ruby myself. Depends on the street price. I would still want the SX50 for lights on sports and video games. The SX50 would practically pay for itself in reduced Ruby lamp costs. :)

Dan is over in your general vicinity. Maybe you should take a road trip.

Ken

My bad, when I said HDMI, I meant to say HDCP. (Like I said, I've been stuck in the analog world until now - so I haven't been paying attention). So there is a distribution box that will "solve" the HDCP issue? Doesn't that defeat the point of CP? (Not that I'm complaining...)

Hey Jeremy, Albuquerque is a lot warmer than Provo. Feel free to stop by and see my SX50. I just bought the last DVI-DVI HDCP stripper this guy said he had for sale, but maybe he can come up with another for you. $139 delivered. Otherwise, I think Digital Connections may still have them at about twice this price.

moome@cm.nctu.edu.tw

Dan

Dan,

Can't wait to hear how your stripper works. I'm assuming he'll make more if there is a demand. I sort of wish your cable box had HDCP so we could compare operation. With the DC box I get a short delay and a HDCP Blocked msg on each channel then it locks in and the msg goes away.

Shouldn't be too long on my Dust Fix. The US SX50 guy wrote and asked for my serial number so he could check on my progress. (I thought that was nice) He said day before yesterday that mine was next in line so shouldn't be long.

He also asked for and I gave a list of HT friendly features for new projector. :)
*HDCP*, 16:9, 2000:1 or higher CR, 12 bit processing.

I also reiterated the list of things we like:
Bright, small, cheap, hi-rez.

I also mentioned Irises and the Sony Ruby as a yardstick, but added that Bright, Small, and Cheap would easily win in the market place if performance was close.

Who knows.

Ken

He also asked for and I gave a list of HT friendly features for new projector. :)
*HDCP*, 16:9, 2000:1 or higher CR, 12 bit processing.
Exciting stuff, even if the contrast is so-so. I wonder whether it'll be 1400x788 or 1920x1080?

Hey guys, i'm considering this pj for purchase for my ht. Does anybody have any screenshots or the ability to take some and post them?
Thanks

Hey guys, i'm considering this pj for purchase for my ht. Does anybody have any screenshots or the ability to take some and post them?
Thanks
I posted a bunch of pictures when I first got the projector here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=557012

Guess what I just got? A largish package from Canon Factory Service. :)

Ken

I just found a link explaining HDCP, HDMI and all that. It may not be news for most people here, but could be for others like me. I connect my projector to the component out on my computer. HDCP is only in the DVI connection. In that case the Canon sx-50 with no HDCP isn't a problem for me.


projectorpeople


I'm not permmited to post a link yet. Hopefully this is enough, you just need the 'dot-com' after "projectorpeople", then the following.

/tutorials/HDCP_DVI.asp

This link also mentions the video quality could be just as good through the component out as it could be for DVI. I wonder.....

Ken,

Well, any dust OOTB, other issues that your other units didn't have, newer firmware, etc.. ?

Thanks,

- Chris

Chris,

The good news is no dust. The bad news is the projector developed a panel misalignment. The Green is a pixel above blue and Red is a pixel below.

I can't send it back again until Tuesday, so I'll test the dust fix as much as I can until then. Probably have about eight hours with no dust problems so far.

I kind of suspect that the panel alignment is electrically adjustable and that when they reset the unit they didn't readjust. I doubt they will share any service menu codes with me so back it will go.

Ken

Keep us posted on the dust accumulation (or, hopefully lack-thereof).

I would hope you could talk them into giving you those svc. menu codes - that sure would be nice. Good luck!

- Chris

Ken, that's kinda discouraging that they screwed up your panel alignment. I'd be really unhappy if they messed up the near-perfect convergence on my projector. Keep us posted.

Dan

I did a dust check and it is completely clean. I can adjust the focus from one end to the other and absolutely no particles come into focus.

I'm just as excited over the picture from my new Sony CX995V 400 Disc DVD changer. It's picture over HDMI is exactly what I've been striving for. It has zero banding like my HTPC and more detail than either that or the Panny S97. Just as importantly the gamma on Cinema1 setting is perfect for the SX50.

Before, I found myself fiddling with the gamma and never getting just what I wanted, but now its as good as I could imagine.

Part of it may be an increase in CR. I'll have to remeasure. The screen door is definitely more visible now. I can make it out inside 1X screen widths now. May have something to do with panel alignment. Maybe we got lucky and one of the dust shields is blocking some stray light.

I've written Canon about the panel alignment. Hopefully, I'll hear back today.

Ken

Heard back from Canon. They say send it in.

They gave me a particular name to send it to this time. That sounds promising.

Ken

Ken,

Sounds good on the dust issue - are you going to send it in ASAP, or use it a bit first ? If you keep it a week or so, let us know how the dust accumulation goes.

Also, on your Sony changer, are you using the Dig. Connection "box" with its HDMI out ?

- Chris

Chris,

I'll try to send it in tomorrow. I've had it running almost continuosly, so it's quite a bit of on time. The pre-fix unit collected dust quickly. My room is carpeted and you can see dust in the projector beam.

The changer would never work without the "box" and its even more tricky than that. With only the SX50 connected the box will make it work, but the Sony will only output 480P no matter what you set it to. (I think the 1400x1050 confuses it)

So to make it work, I connected one output of the box to the SX50 and one to my Samsung 720P DLP RP. There is a switch on the box that lets you choose which display the source "sees". So I the Sony now sees the 720P Sammy and sends out the correct res.

This is dual display capability is actually a plus. Still too tricky.

Ken

Ken,

Thanks for the info.

Canon turned your PJ around pretty quick last time, ~ 1 week, IIRC ?

I take it they have been good to deal with ?

Still entertaining the SX50 idea before locking in my Ruby order - time is running out.

- Chris

A little news. I wrote the "box" manufacturer about my issue and they are going to update my box to handle the situation better. I even asked for an advanced replacement and they agreed. Nice Service! (DD-D12P from Digital Connection)

Having two digital outputs is nice. I ran the one output into our bedroom and so we can watch in either place, and the "box" is a distribution amp so it has no trouble with long HDMI runs.

Chris, under the circumstances Canon has been great to work with. IMO if $$$ is not an issue and you have a dedicated light controlled HT then the Ruby is in another league.

I'd have to do some fancy mods to my Living Room HT to fit the 41 lb. Ruby. I may.

Ken

Ken,

The SX50 sounds like such a neat, little, machine that It may be usefull as a multi purpose portable, as well as a super-bright, lights-on powerhouse. In my fairly unusual RP setup, the possibility of having multiple PJs is certainly tempting. Practical? Maybe not... I'm sure I'll go one way or the other, but I just would like to get all the facts on the Canon first. Thanks for all your answers.

- Chris

Here's a 'Cut-&-Paste' from the people I'll be buying my SX50 from later today.
Notice the "HDCP-compliant DVI video". Is that a mistake or is 'compliant' different from maybe 'compatable', 'applicable' or 'equipped with'?

I have a group of friends coming Saturday so I might shell out a little more $ to get it quicker, by Friday at least. I have already a Canon LV-X1, so it shouldn't take much more than pull it out and connect the SX50 in its place (I hope). It is connected to my computer via component, and I'd need to set the resolution to higher than 1024x768, the setting I use now.

I can't wait!



Computer
Digital: SXGA+,SXGA,XGA,SVGA,VGA
Analog: UXGA,SXGA+,SXGA,XGA,SVGA,VGA
and Mac

HDCP-compliant DVI video
1080i, 1035i, 720p, 575p, 480p

Component Video
1080i, 1035i, 720p, 575p, 575i, 480p, 480i

Composite video and S-Video
NTSC, PAL, SECAM, NTSC4.43, PAL-M, PAL-N

That is old information. Obviously the marketing dept. of Canon thought the SX50 would be HDCP compliant, but alas it is not.

I'm a little weary of a vendor who hasn't updated that information.

Your computer plus DVD player will have no problem with the lack of HDCP. Things like stand alone DVD playera, cable/sat boxes, etc. will be a problem.

Ken

You guys seen that Canon has made what looks like a widescreen (2.35:1) prototype of the SX50? TzungILin has posted a couple of pictures.

best regards

Here's a cool cutaway of a real SX50 at the Canon Expo in Paris.

Full Link:

Gun Paris Expo 2005 (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.cinenow.com/fr/article.php3/id,2424/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAISYS%2BSED%2BHDV%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D)


Ken

Ken -

Tell me more about the problems you had with the dual distribution "box" and how I can obtain one that is fixed. I'd like to test it with the HDCP ouput of my Direct TV receiver and see how it compares to the component output I am currently using.

I have another different tech question to ask you guys. I am in the process of moving my stack of equipment. My "sub" is right next to the stack now but where I plan to put it will make it difficult to have it that close. The unit is connected to my receiver by a special coax cable that the dealer made when I had them install it.
HERE ARE THE QUESTIONS -
Is there a length limit on that type of coax cable used to connect the sub? Can I use RG-6 coax cable instead with phono plug adapter ends to make say a thrity foot run from amp to power the sub? If I cannot do that then what are my alternatives?

Icon Master

The manufacturer of the box will have a new batch on the 11th. They are going to send me a new one from that batch to swap out with my existing one. So you'll probably want to wait until then.

The only problen with my cable box is that each channel gets a msg of no HDCP before locking in and working fine. I don't watch much TV on my projector so its no big deal. Not sure how it would act on DTV. There is/was no problem at all with my Panny DVD player.

The Sony changer is the only problem so far. I have to flip a switch on the box when I change DVD's. This is the problem they said would be fixed with the new release. Hopefully it will work better with my cable box as well.

The coax should be fine. You could ask over in the Sub forum. Those guys were quick to help me get my sub integrated into my room.

Ken

The manufacturer of the box will have a new batch on the 11th. They are going to send me a new one from that batch to swap out with my existing one. So you'll probably want to wait until then.

The coax should be fine. You could ask over in the Sub forum.
Ken

I'm looking forward to hearing a report from you about one of the new batch boxes. If this does work well then it will overcome the HDCP deficiency of the SX50.

Looks like any decent coax cable with double shielding should work on my sub. The preferred product appears to be Canare LV77S coax cable due to it flexibility. Does anyone know where I can get 100 feet of that product "cheap" along with a few same brand RCA termination ends?

Icon Master

What a difference! Comparing the SX50 with my old Canon LV-X1... It is brighter, (even on the 'low' setting where I keep it). I never minded the noise on the old canon but I do notice the SX50 is quieter. Suprisingly, the colors seem about as rich although the blacks are certianly blacker! The best thing, no 'screendoor'!!! 20 years ago when I bought my house, every winter I removed the screens from the windows, because I don't like looking out the windows through the screens. I have never gotten used to doing the same with movies! The pixels are there but soooo small, they're even smaller than the pixles on the average 40" screens I see at (unamed) electronics stores. Colors need to be fine tuned, my old Canon was fine with default settings. The supplier 'said' this SX50 is from the new batch and the the dust problem is already fixed, time will tell. I connected it right up to the 'component out' on my computer. I only had to connect the projector, adjust the pointing, level, zoom and focus and everything worked! I compared the picture with the anamorphic lens and 'widescreen' setting without the lens. There wasn't too much noticable difference, just a very slight sharper improvement with the lens and naturally an even brighter picture and less 'overflow' light with the lens blocking almost all of it (thought the overflow light normally isn't too noticable). My clearer Region 4 (PAL 96 extra lines of resolution) anamorphic DVDs showed almost no difference at all and therefore, may be no need to use the lens on those. Fast motion scenes are smooth, no breaking or anything.
I'll keep tinkering though. Great projector for the price!

That's great! Put it in Cinema or sRGB mode, and use THX Optimizer or Avia etc. to set your levels.

I was a little weary of sRGB at first, but I've watched several movies in that mode with no strange behavior. It will give the most accurate colors without calibration.

Ken

Thanks KenLand

I'll try those tips. I knew of the Cinema setting but, in all my excitement, I didn't try it yet. I have the Pal Region 4 DVD of "Star Wars Revenge of the Sith" and a friend brought over his NSTS Region 1 to compare. We all noticed the Pal was sharper but we also noticed something else, the colors for the Pal version were excellent just with the SX50's default settings, but the NSTS version the colors were much 'bluer' and off sorely! Different compresion methods for each region, I guess. Right now with friends coming over, I don't get to tinker to much, but I will!

I'd like to try that Pal version of the RoTS. We watched the region 1 disc last nigt. Wow, that's what projectors were made for! Big and bold and lots of action. The blacks and black detail were great and the colors looked dead on on my calibrated unit in sRGB mode.

Can't wait to get my dust fixed unit back to try it.

In my letter asking them to fix the panel alignment I asked for the panels themselves to be calibrated for optimal shading uniformity. It will be interesting to see if they take action on that request.

Ken

Ken,

The fact that you asked Canon to address shading issues on the panels leads me to believe that you were noticing shading issues - one of the issues I was concerned about. How bad was it ? Or is it just one of those things that as long as they have it, go ahead and tweak it ?

Thanks,

- Chris

Chris,

It's not too bad, and I'm not sure its a shading issue. What it is along the bottom edge of the screen of that unit its ever so slightly brighter. If you don't have your black level set well you'll see it along the black bars.

Since I'm only using 720-788 vertical pixels (depending on if I use TRUE SIZE or FULL) its not the actual bottom of the panel, so I think it must be a firmware calibration issue.

It also varries between the two units I have. So I asked if they have a procedure to calibrate the uniformity of the panels to do so. If they don't I'm still happy. If they do and it improves I'll be even more happy. I'm kind of hoping for a William Phelps Lite treatment. :)

I also told them it would be used primarily for Home Theater in case that meant anything to them.

They have it and are supposedly going to look at it on Monday.

Ken

Ken,

Yeah, doesn't sound like a shading issue at all, if its at the bottom of the "image" and not the panel, and apparently it moves with where you put the image on the panel. Hopefully they can rectify this for you.

- Chris

Something which may be of interest down line is that Chip of Integrity theater (he's their calibrator) is going to try and get the information needed to do SX50 calibrations. I convinced him there's a big neglected community of SX50 owners who would be interested in his reasonably priced service (around $350). More on this as I get something.

Dan

Hey Dan,

Couple 'o Q's. Did you ever get your HDCP Stripper? Also, how did you think your SX50 compares to all the projectors you saw at Integrity's shoot out?

I say good luck to Chip. If he wants the name of the USA product mgr. (or the closest thing Canon has in the US) tell him to PM me. He is nice, but I haven't been able to get him to even admit that a service mode exists. I'll pay $350 if Chip can do it.

Ken

Regards HDCP stripper, picking it up at post office. He mailed it and we were out of town at the Colorado shoot out. But until my VP30 arrives I won't be installing it anyway.

So where are you with getting your projector problems resolved? Why did the pixel alignment get screwed up on what should have been a simple mechanical fix? Did you ever determine if there is a firmware update?

Thanks.

Dan

When do you expect your VP30? I think with the Stripper your 3910 will output 720P.

I'll have to check with Canon. They should be getting to it soon if not yesterday.

No comments on Shootout vs. Canon? :)

Ken

I tried to get them to let me take my Canon to the shootout and see how it looked side by side with the other projectors. No luck, drat!

If anyone ever combines the Canon light engine with the JVC LCOS technology in the HD2K, it would probably kick butt on the Ruby. Man, the HD2K they had at the shoot out was DIM DIM DIM! :)

Our $3500 Canon's can't run with the three chip DLPs on CR and black. But they sure kick butt on resolution. I tried to talk the Integrity guys into letting me bring my Canon and setting it up next to the other projectors. No luck, darn it.

Dan

I have now installed my DWIN TV4.

Anyone want to do a major shootout at my place again?

I would love to see 4-5 PJ's. I will provide the food as well :)

I'll bring my Dust Fixed, Panel Aligned, Calibrated SX50!

I wish I could bring my new Sony 400 disc changer. Remember the banding in the scenes on The Incredibles? They are non-existant with this player. It's not very portable however. :)

Anyone considering this will want to see Texas Aggie's Theater. It's very nice.

Ken

I'd love to attend if only to discuss Texas football with Texas Aggie. Hook 'em Horns! :D :D

So Ken, your projector is back and all is fixed? Any firmware update?

Dan

A&M Football......what's to discuss :(

I also have a Sony 400 DVD changer we can use. I will see about a date.

Not back yet. I can hope they'll get it right...

Ken

It's OK Texas Aggie, I remember when the Aggies were kicking our butts quite regularly. These things run in cycles. Thank God I'm still alive to maybe see the Tower lit again. The last time (for football) was when I was a grad student there. I'm 61 years old, you do the math. :D

DAMN nice theater BTW!

Dan

yeah I played for A&M during those years......never lost to Texas.
I liked it better then :)

USC and Texas will be an epic game.



Thanks, my Wife even loves it

Thank you Icon, Ken, Dan and everyone else making this a great SX50 thread.

I have a few questions that I haven't found answers to after reading all the posts. Where I live in Sweden there is no way I can see a demo of the SX50 before buying it. So I'm totally relying on the fantastic depth of information you guys provide.

As many of you SX50 fans I have realised that a bright punchy picture is key to me. I like the high resolution and the fillfactor of the SX50. I'm thinking about the Ruby but it seems to be way to dim for me even with a Silverstar screen with a 16:9 screen size width of at least 105'', which to me even is a to small screen.

I have been on my way to upgrade from my darling Sony vw10 many times but never seem to find what I'm loooking for. My main concern with that projector have been brightness. I many times enyoy watching TV or movies or using the projector for computer activites like surfing the internet, gaming, etc, in ambient light and I need the proj to handle that with excellence. I want to have a huge plasmalike image.

Now to my questions/concerns.

How quite is the SX50? I know the specs say 34db in low lamp mode. I have read that many of you are satisfied with it in low lamp mode but maybe you are not so easily disturbed by the noise from a PJ? Is the SX50 more noisy than the Sony vw10 and how much? If you don't know can you name popular projectors that is just slightly more noisy or similar to the SX50 so I can relate? I could not live with it being more noisy than the vw10 in low lamp mode which in specs says 30db, but that is specs I guess reality can be different.

Another weak side of the SX50 seems to be the contrast ratio/black level. However I don't think CR is so important to me and the weak CR on my vw10 has never really bothered me and I know it is lower than 700:1 which was the spec for the sony vw11 (the model that followed). So how much better is the contrast on the SX50 which is specified to 1000:1? Is it only marginally better than my vw10? Even though I have never had problems with the poor black levels of my Sony I might really start appreciate good CR if I get it (go for something else than the SX50), or what do you think?

I'm also thinking about going constant hight 2.35:1 on my next setup and use a anamorphic lens. Has anyone done that with the SX50 and what is your comments on that?

Best from Sweden

Yossy

Hello Yossy,

I can't really help on the noise, exept to say it's fine for me quiet mode and very loud in Normal mode.

I think the Contrast Ratio will be marginally better than your Sony, but nothing big. I can tell you the opening space battle scene of Revenge of the Sith has plenty of CR to blow me away every time I watch it.

Resolution, brightness, and fill factor will be fantastic.

I'm not aware of an Anamorphic Lens that will take 4:3 to 2.35. If you know of one, I would like to know as well.

Sorry I can't be more help. You're welcome to come by and check mine out! :)

Ken

If you're very sensitive to noise and your room is very quiet, you'd probably find this projector too loud. I run mine in low lamp mode and it is noticeably quieter than the Sanyo XP21N it replaced. Because it has a long throw, you might be able to put it in the back of your room and make it less obtrusive.

Panamorph had a lens for converting 4:3 to 2.35. I recall it didn't work too well but you might want to contact them with this question.

[url]http://www.panamorph.com/[url]

Since you are in Switzerland, I would get the SX50 from Dieter to make sure you get a dust corrected, firmware updated model.

CR is still a weak point with these projectors. But your perception of CR is greater because of the brightness.

Frankly, if I were going to have a 2.35 setup, I'm not sure I'd start with this projector. I think I'd start with a 16:9 setup, you can then use a lens, either Isco or Panamorph, to get the constant 2.35 setup.

Dan

Yossy22
I've had my SX50 only a week so I'm not nearly as up on it as the experts on this thread are. I did have for 3 1/2 years a Canon LV-X1, so that's all I can compare it with. The SX50 might be about half as noisey in low mode as the LV-X1 and the noise in the LV didn't bother me. Both projectors were in the same location, in a bookcase, about 6ft behind where we sit. We don't even know it's there.

I don't remember what we were watching, but a scene was over, it faded to black and until the next scene started, I thought the projector went off! I turned around to look and by then the next scene came on. That never happened on the old LV! The blacks and contrast ratio are both great for me!

I always used a panamorphic lens at every chance on the LV-X1, but with the SX50, at least for me, there's no noticable difference in sharpness than when I set the computer to widescreen and leave the SX50 on full screen (but I do get a slightly brighter picture). So I haven't been using the lens much at all, for now anyway.

Also in Sweden you might have PAL which gives you shaper video than us NTSC and standard DVD guys. I guess HDTV won't be for a while out that way. If NTSC is "1" and HDTV is "2", PAL would be about "1 3/4". @ 720. HD would only be a slight improvement, but PAL looks great compared with our standard TV or DVD. Your projector will be better on that.

I was extremely leary about the 'hype' I read about the SX50 but now that I have it, I'm 100% happy!

If JVC doesn't sell Canon its latest generation of 1920x1080 chips soon, it would be a good move for Canon to change to TI DC3 1920x1080 chips and stun the world with a small, low-cost, high contrast, 3 chip DLP light cannon. I would be willing to pay twice the price of today's SX50!.

Not a bad dream for a lazy saturday morning.

JayP

Thanks Dan Ken and Morritec,

I think I don't have any excuse any more for postponing things, I just have o find a Canon sx50 with dust blobs fixed and upgraded firmware. Howerver as I am from Sweden and not Switzerland Dan ;) I have to look elsewhere than Dieter.

As for the anamorphic Lens Dan I was planning on going from widescreen mode to 2.35:1. That shouldn't be a problem should it? I know I wouln't use all of the pannel which is a little negative but the resolution still is better than anything else in that pricerange don't you think?

Yossy

Yossy, the Panamorph P752 would work in going from 16:9 to 2.35:1. Use it if you want your throw distance unchanged. I'm not using one at all and there's plenty of resolution and brightness even for 2.35:1. I'm adding a screen masking setup to my 4:3 screen to get rid of the non-black, black bars.

Dieter is in Germany. I think he sells to your neck of the woods. That's where I'd start because he definitely is selling modified units.

There is nothing in the price range of this projector that can hold a candle to it for brightness and resolution, period.

Dan

Yossy,

Hadn't thought of Anamorphic on top of the 1400x788 mode. That would definitely be a nice way to go for CIH.


All,

I got my SX50 back from Canon. The panels are not perfectly aligned but they are less than one pixel from perfect.

I can't comment overall, because I've sent my Sony DVD changer in to get SDI added. I can't hardly stand to watch the Panasonic S97 now. I'll comment again when my Sony comes back in a few days.

Ken

Let me know when you get it back. We need to have the PJ shootout.

Ken, any thoughts as to how/why they screwed up your panel alignment? This really worries me as mine is PERFECT.

Everything else fixed?

In the process of installing screen mask from HTIQ. Not the easiest job I ever got into. Will post full photos as I work through the process.

Dan

Dan,

Don't know why. We just watched Herbie Fully Loaded and it looked fantastic. The misalignment is a fraction of a pixel in blue. Green and Red are spot on. It looks perfect from just a few feet back on an 80" wide screen.

I guess that movie didn't exercise any of the Panasonic's weaknesses. I wonder if macroblocking only shows up on CG stuff?

Texas Aggie, sounds good should probably start thinking about a date. Weds. are always off. My daughter's soccer practice on Monday night is probably my earliest availability night.

Did you want to wait and see how SDI looked? Does your Dwin have DVI in? If so, I think I should be approaching the perfect DVD signal. You might want to see how it looks on your Dwin. If I bring it over before I load it up it won't be any hassle.

Ken

This weekend? Maybe Sunday night?

I definatety want to see the SDI if you can bring it. I have DVI on the new DWIN.

Yossy22,

It might be of interest to and other European members that Canon offers a promotion for sx-50 where you get an extra lamp (or cash) if you buy an sx-50 between Nov 1 and Jan 31.

Have you found any supplier in Sweden that knows if their sx-50's has been updated ?

Jocke I have not cheched that with swedish retailers. I actually don't know how to make sure that it is upgraded so there are no dust blob problems and the firmware upgraded. Can anyone help me here?

I emailed Dieter (thanks Dan for the tip) about the German dealer he recommended who obviously knew about the dust and firmware issue. Dieter had posted the wrong url and the correct one is beamer-hdav.de I haven't checked if they ship to Sweden yet. I know Pixmania does and according to Pricerunner they have a very competetive price.

Jocke do you know of any retailers selling the sx50 with the upgrade? The extra lamp would also be valued :) How can I get that?

Best

Yossy

Jocke do you know of any retailers selling the sx50 with the upgrade? TYossy

SX50 "gang." - I have had my new dealer demo SX50 which was shipped out of factory stock in Illinois for over a week now and so far - NO DUST BLOBS!!! or image tearing or other issues.

Last night I even tried to do some video calibrations using those two popular(?) DVD's and had a hard time even finding any need to tweak the colors as they were nearly dead on right out of the box. While using my Oppo on DVI 720p with factory default settings I played with the SX50's advanced color calibration and after super nitpicking came up with the following (using eyeball technique and color filters) on the bottom numbers only running sRGB in low lamp mode -
+2 +2
+1 +2
+1 +2
After doing this I tried switching between having this custom configuration being turned on and factory default and could see no noticeable difference in live DVD video images but these custom settings did seem to make the test pattern boxes look spec using the Red, Green and Blue color filter technique on Joe Kahn's calibration DVD.

As usual the Oppo had the test demo video and still images on the calibration DVDs looking superb - nearly HiDef. I still find little need to spend the thousand dollars or so trying to make a Denon or Sony DVD player work with the SX50 by running them through various up and down converters and/or HDCP strippers when the little not quite perfect $199 Oppo DVD player does a great job 720p upscaling via the SX50's DVI input even through a 30 foot DVI cable.

If mine holds up then it looks like the US Canon SX50 factory inventory is now fixed unless there are a few stragglers sitting on the shelf. I feel fairly confident that I can now sell these units to my advertising agency and hotel clients with fresh inventory from Canon and not have to worry about getting a unit with dust blob issues.

Icon Master

Texas Aggie,

Not this week. It will have to be after Thanksgiving!

My friend said he wants to join us again as well when we do get together.

Icon, Glad to hear it! I wonder if I should whine for a replacement from new stock? Is your panel alignment dead on?

Ken

Yeah, me too. If the new stock is in Illinois, that's where mine came from. First thing, we need a SN to know what is new and what is not.

Suggestions Icon?

Dan

Dan,

Since we got it from the same place, maybe we should try a joint approach. Actually, I need to call them and send back my loaner. Should I mention anything?

Ken

Sounds great Ken. Monday after t-day....

I will be celebrating my upset win over the evil horns all weekend ;)

Texas Aggie,
Is your panel alignment dead on?
Ken

I truly do not know. I have learned not to look for minor flaws like that since I am compulsive too an once I know a flaw exists I won't leave "it" alone. I have not run a screen test for years on any Mac PowerBook or unit i own or use for demos. Once I know it has a bad pixel then I will continue to find my eyes being drawn to the flaw. It takas the fun out of life bing this way so sometimes avoidance is the best policy.

The blobs were overwhelming and needed to be eliminated. So far so good on mine. I don't know if there is a serial number dust blob cutoff number since I don't know if these were fixed before shipped to the USA or did local Canon service "lift" the inventory and fix those that were on the shelf? Canon is very shut-mouth about such things even to its dealers.

I still want to see the "shock and awe" on the face of one of the new Sony owners when we put an SX50 next to one when they ship. The foiks here including some of you SX50 fans have never really let that discussion we had regarding the human eyes sensitivity to color falling off at low lumen levels sink in. Sure you can have 8000:1 contrast levels with the newer Sony and DLP units but at 500 lumens with the lens aperture closed down the blacks will indeed be like lightless black holes but the color will also be dim and the human eye will be straining to discern them. Every time I played with a low lumen projector I found my eyes"thirsting" for a brighter picture.

So stop touting the $10K Sony since I can almost guarantee that in a side by side shoot out it will look so dim as to be lifeless. Now maybe in the next room after a half hour when our old eyes adjust to its low light levels the story will be different but if I had money (and I don't) I'd be willing to bet that the SX50 will put the Sony almost to shame. Bigger, Brighter is better!!

Icon Master

P.S. Geaux LSU Tigers. Three points from being a national champion contender. Aggies - put it to those Longhorns coached by who we call over here opportunistic "Packin' Mac" who used poor old Tulane as a stepping stone to get eventually to Texas. He coulda and shoulda stayed here like the Florida State coach did there.

In your dreams, Texas Aggie Dog, in your dreams! :D

"The Eyes of Texas are upon you, all the live long day."

Yeah Ken, it would be great if we could exchange these units for fixed ones. Sounds like sending it to New Jersey is a crap shoot.

See what you can find out. Thanks. Give the Aggie a nice stiff drink when he gets to your place, he'll need it after the crushing his team is going to get. :)

Take some pictures and screen shots for the rest of us on this thread and have fun! Wish I could come.

Dan

This is my first post, but I've been reading the forums, and purchasing from AVS, for over 2 years. : )

I just purchased an SX50 last week, and am completely satisfied at this point. The setup it replaced was an Infocus X1 with an anamorphic lens. I haven't permanently mounted the SX50 yet, and have it set on 720p. Even without using the full 4x3 panel, the resolution is amazing. No screen door, and invisible pixel structure!!!

I want to use my lens to get the most out of this projector, but am concerned with mention of "tearing", etc. at full resolution. Has everyone experienced this, and if so, is it severe and highly noticable? The reason I pose this question is that some have higher thresholds for picture flaws than others. One poster to this thread deemed the SX50 unworthy for home theatre use. To my eyes, I've never seen a better 9' picture than what the SX50 throws. I guess that shows how subjective this hobby is. The one area lacking in the SX50, contrast, is the least important factor for me. The only time I've noticed a contrast weakness is totally dark scenes - which isn't a problem for most films. I feel the SX50 makes up for this in brightness, color quality, no SDE, and resolution.

I am very sensitive to SDE, and pixel structure. I also like to sit close to the screen. That wasn't possible with my 800x600 X1, even with the anamorphic lens. I demo'd several high dollar 1280x720 DLPs, and could still see more pixel structure than I cared for. The SX50 is exactly what I was looking for - if I can use the full panel. If the tearing affects all machines, and there isn't a firmware fix, I guess I'll just use velvet masking and sell my panamorph. There's plenty of resolution, but I'd like to use all of it. : )

Lastly, a question for Icon Master, or someone with the OPO DVD player. Is the component output decent? I realize that DVI is the way to go for upscaling, but I won't be able to use the full panel over DVI. If the tearing issue can't be addressed, I guess DVI would be the way to go anyway.

Thanks!
Art

I have an Oppo but use it with a 9" CRT projector- it's not going to be a good match to the SX50 (which I'm also acquiring but for business use). Your best bet on the SX50, as others have suggested, is using a scaler that supports 1400X1050 over DVI, and feeding it from a good DVD player that doesn't have chroma bugs and other issues. To use it with the Oppo, you'd need to use the 480P DVI output and scale that through an external scaler outputting 1400X1050. I don't see anyway around that; I agree that 1280X720 isn't fully satisfactory in a digital projector if you like close seating distances.

I like the Oppo, and it works well in my setup going to 1920X1080i (using the firmware updates of course), it's just that the SX50 has some special requirements to get the most out of it, and though PC's and Macs support 1400X1050, CE devices (excepting the better scalers) don't.

Dan,

You're going to be lonely around here. I'm Aggie Class of '87! :)
But a nice stiff drink may not be such a bad idea :)

Art,

I think it may be possible to get a non-tearing 1400x1050 input to the SX50, but I haven't been able to do it yet with my two units.

I got very close with Power Strip's special 1400x1050 (DILA) timing. It tears very seldom and not very severely compared to the standard 1400x1050 timing. If you were patient you might be able to start with those settings and tweak them in. Or you might be happy enough.

For now, I'm just using 720P because its rock solid. 1080i may be a better alternative, but I haven't tried it much.

Ken

I rented an SX50 over the weekend to see if the difference was great enough between it and my current G1000 for me to justify an upgrade. (It was.) I watched about 5 hours of programming, some from D-VHS, some from DVD on my Zenith, I never saw any tearing over component (and I'm very sensitive to tearing). I was running full screen through my first generation (oil based) Panamorph.

I tried hooking up DVI to my Zenith and it kept glitching out to pretty pretty colored static, then back for a few seconds then static. Ideas?

For the curious:
My Dilard calibrated G1000 with less than 100 hours on a new bulb had smoother overall color especially in the reds. The reds on the SX50 were a bit too orange, but I put a 20% magenta filter in front, and "recalibrated". Which helped. However, the difference in brightness more than made up for the color. I can say I was genuinely shocked at how bright this little projector is!

Sure the blacks aren't milky black, but neither are they in a real theater. To my eyes, brightness trumps blacks, so I don't really mind. Maybe I'll paint my screen a bit darker.

My G1000 is about 600 lumens, if the Ruby is less than 1000 lumens and this is 2500, I'll certainly take this over the Ruby any day... the extra resolution isn't enough for me.

I'm ready to place an order, if somebody could be so kind as to direct me to a source that has the dust corrected projectors here in the US. Thanks for the discussions. I'm happy I didn't blow the additional $6,000+ on a Ruby.

Wow! Lots of happy SX50 owners (or renters)! That's great (and understandable) to hear!
A couple of questions for all, if I may. #1, How long does it take, on average, before the "dust settles" on a projector if it might not be 'dust corrected'? I've had mine for three weeks (used heavy) and it is still perfect. Might that still be too soon? If that indicates it is corrected, could I reveal the name of the place I got mine from to Jeremy?
Question #2 as brief as possible: I notice when, for example, at the closing credits of a letterboxed movie using a black backdrop for the wording, the black background is darker than the 'black' letterbox bars at the top and bottom of the screen! The bars look 'dark gray' in comparison. I wonder what source 'generates' that 'dark gray' color of the bars, (a) the disc itself, (b) the disc player, or (c) the TV/Projector. If it's (b) the disc player or even (c) the TV/projector, is there a way to adjust, set or fine tune that color to be more 'black' so they don't stand out at all, if possible. I wonder why they don't make the bars as black as possible in the first place. Strange question, I know, but I like to have everything around the movie as dark as possible. The movie video stands out better.
Would any one be willing to post your results/opinion on using an anamorphic lens? I've tinkered for quite a few hours when I first got the projector and again a couple of days ago with mine on and off, with every combination of settings I could think of and I find there's practically no difference with the lens on the SX50 (though there was on my Canon LV-X1 XGA, just can't improve on an SX50 I guess ;) ).

I have had my projector for 9 months and there is a slow buildup of dust but it can't be seen except when throwing a pure white screen. I'm waiting until there is confirmation that the dust free units are in the distributor channel here in Australia before sending it back to Canon.

Regarding anamorphic lenses, I posted a while back on my experience:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6093437&&#post6093437

Regarding tearing, I have never seen my SX50 "tear", using a HTPC and native panel resolution 1050x1400 at 60Hz.

Regarding the grey letterbox effect, I get that too, and when showing a 2.35:1 movie I get a darker shade of grey from the 4:3 to 16:9 letterbox, then another letterbox with a lighter shade of grey in the 16:9 to 2.35:1 letterbox. I have put this down to the PC aspect ratio setup and not the projector as the DVI output is the full 1050x1400 panel. You may need to adjust your brightness and contrast levels to suit.

I should receive a new Stewart StudioTek screen in the next few weeks, and once this is up I'll be investigating advanced calibration for this projector. Has anyone done more than just adjust the user menu?

Regards,
Dean

No tearing is going to occur at 720P and I think 1080i. 480P will tear.

Morritec,

You may have a dust fixed unit. Mine both collected a blob or two in one day. Run you focus ring from one extreme to another on a full white screen and see if any blobs come into focus.

To set your levels properly get a copy of Avia or Digital Video Essentials (DVE). You can also use the THX Optimizer included on many discs like all the Star Wars, Toy Story, etc.

Ken

I have had mine for 2 weeks, i use a HTPC with nvidia gt6800 via DVI at 1400x1050, and TheaterTek 2.2
Overall i'm blown away with the picture quality. I have been experimenting with Powerstrip and reclock, just to see if i can get things any better, but since i have nothing to complain about i'm not sure what to look for. I ran the Juddertest and it was absolutely smooth at 60.02 Hz, but since we have PAL up here in Iceland
i'm wondering if i can change the native refresh rate of the panel.
I just bought a ND4 filter and will experiment with that for moodier movies, but all normal stuff is really great using the cinema mode in low setting.

Has anybody managed to enter the service menu, or do we know if it's there. I'm also toying with the idea of putting an Iris in there, like has been done for the G10 :rolleyes:

Cheers

Thanks to all for answering my questions!

I'll most likely buy the OPPO to use in 720p over DVI for now. My plan is to use an HTPC in the future, but this should be fine in the near term. I guess I can test the tearing myself using my HD cable box via component in full screen with the Panamorph.

Have a great, and safe, Holiday!
Art

Canon has started a promotion for the SX50 in Europe. They offer a free extra lamp or cash back.
http://www.canon-europe.com/SX50promotion.
Unfortunately I already bought one but this might be interesting for new buyers.

Horns won but just barely. Aggies played with heart and desire. Horns played like they've been reading their press reviews--a lackluster performance.

That McGee kid should have been named MVP IMO, what a display of heart and ability!

Horns vs. Aggies, always a classic! :)

I've been working on my SDI setup and have something interesting - especially for anamorphic lens users.

To convert SDI to DVI I'm using a Key Digital "Digital Blaster". It also deinterlaces and scales. The interesting thing is that the SX50 takes 1080P/60 just fine!

It displays it as full screen and so far I've seen no tearing. (perfect for anamorphic lens)

1080P/60 is pretty cool!

I can't get my HTPC to output 1080P to verify how the Canon scales to 1400x1050, but maybe someone else with a native 1080P source can verify.

I may slap in a new video card just to see for sure. If it pans out, this is another feather in the SX50's cap.

markushp, no service menu according to Canon. Not sure I believe it.

Dan, I'm pretty sure in my day the Ag's went to the Cotton Bowl every year I was there. Those were the days :)

Ken

Could someone recommend a couple reliable vendors that carry Canon Realis SX50 in the states? Thanks.

By the way, has anyone thinking about using a Silicon Optix Realta HQV based scalar such as NEC Theatersync and the like with SX50?

Howard

Howard,

Sent you a PM.

An HQV scaler would be awesome IMO. I'm waiting on a Gennum GXP based scaler, but I chose Gennum just because it fits into my existing AV processor.

I'm finding that I'm more and more pleased with this projector as time goes on. It's not perfect, but on the whole works best for my family and my budget.

Small, bright, low SDE, long throw, cheap (relatively)

Let us know what you decide.

Ken

Ken, I was at Texas in 69-70, last time the tower was lit for the national championship. Yes, I remember well that LONG drought in Texas football.

However, our cheerleaders are ALWAYS better looking than yours! :D

HChi, I decided to wait for an HQV based scaler as the current setup works OK. This projector definitely does very well with 720P, which suggests that using an Oppo as an interim is a good bet.

Dan

Hi Ken,
Thanks for the PM. Besides HQV, I am also paying close attention to Gennum as well. It looks like these two chipsets will be the mainstream 1080p chipsets. Do you happen to have an Anthem AV Processor? The only Gennum based products I am aware of are Anthem Statement D2, Optoma VX3000 scalar, and Pixel Magic Crystalio. Please do keep us posted when you get the Gennum upgrade, I would love to know how they work together.


Dan, Oppo is indeed a good player (regardless the price). When I talked to the Oppo source about whether any Realta HQV or Gennum VXP GF9350 would be used. All they can tell me is that many chipsets are tested or being tesed including these two. In fact, a few of them (visiting chipset manufactures) actually took a Oppo back to study. It is good to know that it is still possible to find something that could offer a high quality of service at an afforable price. I just hope that Oppo can release a player that could only access an external hardware and network.


Thanks all of you again for your sharing of knowledge and experience. I will keep visiting this thread to check on the progress and learn something of good value.

Howard

Howard,

I've had a D1 for about a year. I'm now waiting (with many others) for the upgrade to D2.

I know different people have different ideas, but I've always been a fan of scalers. A good scaler always performs as well or better than the best builtins. So with a good scaler/deinterlacer you can choose from many more sources and displays. Now every DVD player scores 100 on Secrets tests, etc.

Dan, I'm not sure about the cheerleaders. I was up in the stands with my (now) wife. :) I was at A&M from '84-'87. So, UT in '69, huh? Were you a regular at Hippy Hollow? I had a chance meeting with a few hundred naked souls there around '73.

Ken

Still being curious on how to darken the 'Dark Gray' letterbox bars, I adjusted the 'desktop' brightness output on my computer, brighter and darker while an anamorphic letterbox DVD was playing. Sadly there was no difference at all in the shading of the 'bars'. I also tried varying the brightness output on the DVD playing software, and again no difference. It appears it is the projector that sets the darkness of the bars. Doing a search on the internet with 'Adjust Letterbox Black Bars', I found some sights that pointed out that some projectors literally 'shut off' the letterbox pixels for a better image. I also have the computer connected to my SDTV with S-Video, for DVD watching without always using the projector. Again the black backdrop on the closing credits of the DVD image, is darker than the letterbox bars, adjusting both computer settings does no difference.
For now I have a piece of cardboard with a 16:9 shaped hole placed about two feet in front of the projector to block everything but the movie image. It works fine but looks a little silly. It's a good thing we face the screen instead of the projector! :) Does anybody else have ideas or solutions?

Another "test" I made; with adapters, I connected the computer to the DVI input of the projector, instead of the component. The colors seem just barely noticeably richer, with the skin tones definitely more Red. Some color tweaking fixed that.

Thanks every one for the great site!

Ray

Ken,
I also believe that a good scalar can be of much help. While different deinterlacing/scalar may be implemented in projector and DVD, who knows what % of the potential does the manufactures truly tap into. If they only need a specific feature, what is the point of R&D other potential especially when there is always a pressure to keep the cost low. However, as a scalar vendor, at least they have the excuse and goal to explore the whole nine yards of any good chipset in R&D; whether the execution is as complete as we wish, that is another story. :rolleyes:

Due to the high lumens of SX50, what screens are people using with their beloved SX50? Earlier in the thread I read a bit about Stewart Microperf, Screen Research Clearpix2, and Vutec Soundscreen? Has anyone explore these further? Regarding Vutec, what's the difference between difference Lectric models? Can the soundscreen be used on all Lectric models?

Thanks,
Howard

Morritec: I use theatertek 2.2 and there i can manually adjust the blanking, to any color i choose and that has fixed that problem for me.

HChi, I'm using the Firehawk and it is great with this projector.

Dan

No, Ken, I hung out at Scholtz's Beer Garden. I didn't have the body for Hippy Hollow, even back then. But I do remember the sweetest sound in the world is 50,000 voices singing "Poor Aggies." :D

Hi folks, I have been experimenting with a ND4 filter and the result is that for all darkish movies starwars etc, it is preferable to use it, the halo is totally gone, tha blacks are very black and the black detail is very good in my opinion. I have adjusted the settings with the THX optimizer.
I guess the best judgement is that when my wife saw the difference she clearly preferred the nd4 filter for the darker stuff. The wonder with the SX50 is that it's still quite bright even with 40% blocked off :p

PS a circular polarizing nd2 filter turned out to produce a pink image, i guess there is a lot of polarizing going on in the projector and no need to add more :D



Cheers

Hi Mark, where did you get that filter? I'd like to try this one.

Dan

It's a standard 72 mm neutral density filter i use with my camera.
It does not really fit onto the lens but i can hang ito on there, with a bit of luck it won't fall to it's death :p

b+w 102 72901 n.density 4x
http://shop.vendio.com/hkd/item/771809077/index.html
cheers

I'd like to thank Icon Master, and anyone else, who suggested the Oppo DVD player for use with the SX50. It's a great match! I received mine just before Thanksgiving, and have been rewatching recently viewed movies, to see the difference upscaling makes. The difference in quality is amazing to me. This will definitely tide me over until HD DVDs are a reality. I like it so much, I ordered another for my bedroom 61" HDTV. : )

This is a much cheaper route than a dedicated HTPC (which I plan to build sometime in the future - so I can use the whole panel, and my anamorphic lens) or an external scaler, for someone on a buget. Highly recommended!

Art

It does not really fit onto the lens but i can hang ito on there, with a bit of luck it won't fall to it's death :pBased on your projector's lens you might be able to use a rubber lens hood. I got a 77 mm ND2 which screws right into the hood and the other end of the hood fits right around the lens (tightly).

I'd like to thank Icon Master, and anyone else, who suggested the Oppo DVD player for use with the SX50. It's a great match! Highly recommended!
Art

Art -

I am not sure anyone else has really promoted the Oppo for use with the SX50 like I have been doing. For the most part my suggestion fell on deaf ears. There are a lot of bright but hard headed guys here who like to do things in a more complicated, more expensive way even when the results are possibly inferior to the "cheaper" approach. Sometimes we techno types get so caught up in the game that we will do things in a more complex way just to prove to ourselves we can do it. These guys love their 480i/p DVD players. They then throw buckets of bucks away on external scalers, processors, etc to get 720P output when they could simply buy a $200 Oppo and be done with all that. Oh well, sometimes I do the same thing,

Icon Master

Hey Icon,

Just to give you a chuckle I'll chronicle my current setup. 400 Disc Sony DVD changer with JVB Digital SDI mod added (slightly better PQ + no HDCP) into Key Digital "Blaster", then to my SX50.

All said, about $1700 bucks. But hey, it's fun and I'm sure at least 2% better than your $200 Oppo. :)

BTW, with my equipment 1080i or 1080p gives a slight edge over 720p. (verified with friends Accupel) Give 1080i a whirl on your Oppo and see if you like it.

Ken

Art -

I am not sure anyone else has really promoted the Oppo for use with the SX50 like I have been doing. For the most part my suggestion fell on deaf ears. There are a lot of bright but hard headed guys here who like to do things in a more complicated, more expensive way even when the results are possibly inferior to the "cheaper" approach. Sometimes we techno types get so caught up in the game that we will do things in a more complex way just to prove to ourselves we can do it. These guys love their 480i/p DVD players. They then throw buckets of bucks away on external scalers, processors, etc to get 720P output when they could simply buy a $200 Oppo and be done with all that. Oh well, sometimes I do the same thing,

Icon Master

Quite true- I've had HTPCs in various configurations since 1999. But I bought an Oppo last December when they first hit our shores, and that's all I've been running on my NEC CRT projectors since- (1080i). Best $200 every spent on a video source, even if it did require a $300 DVI-D to RGBHV converter to use with a CRT projector!

~Jon

The problem is, if you have more than one source that needs scaling, the Oppo won't help you. Scalers are also switchers which can be very nice in simplifying a multi-input setup when you only want to run one cable to the projector.

The problem is, if you have more than one source that needs scaling, the Oppo won't help you. Scalers are also switchers which can be very nice in simplifying a multi-input setup when you only want to run one cable to the projector.

I'll concede that. I actually run two cables - one component and the other DVI. My ceiling can stand the strain and the one other cable doesn't detract from the projector's appearance that badly. :)


Dan, being cheap and hard headed maybe I need you to explain this to me one more time. In additon to my DVI based Oppo I have a Direct TV HD TIVO receiver with component output, a big dish sat receiver with component output, a DVDR unit with component and a VHS/DVR combo unit with component output. I channel these into a 4 to 1 component switch and on through that ugly "extra" cable up to the SX50 ceiling mounted unit. If I have a beef about this setup, it is that SD TV signal quality on all the sources except the big dish is pretty sucky. Would sending this sucky quality component video into a scaler/swither device give me a signficantly better picture on SD video and make the single cable approach worth my spending the extra dough on it???????????

I am definitely interested in that HDCP/HDMI->DVI device that was coming out or apparantly came with an upgraded version a few weeks back. We SX50 owners will need that for sure when the HDCP/HDMI compliant HiDef DVD players start shipping - right???????????? Do you think it will work OK as is or will it require more fixes/upgrades when the new DVD players come out???????

Lastly - no dust blobs after a month on my fresh from the factory warehouse dealer demo unit. I am very happy and will still put the SX50- against the Big "Q" from Sony and their new cheaper, dimmer SXRD/LCOS unit as well!!

Icon Master

Right now, I adapted my old setup to work with the SX50 by using my Faroudja NRS to process the DVD and SD sources, and route the HD source directly to the projector with the pass through feature. I have the NRS connected to the projector with a VGA cable, using an adapter at the projector end. With the exception of the pass through HD signal, the NRS outputs the other sources at XGA and the projector scales them up.

As primitive as this sounds, I am pretty amazed at how well it works, to the point I decided to defer buying a better scaler until the HQV units are out there and the main problems discovered and dealt with. The projector does a very nice job of scaling the XGA signal. I found the VGA/component input of the projector to be too soft for my taste--the DVI/VGA adapted input is noticeably better in this regard.

Previously I was sending the HD signal direct to the projector using the VGA/DVI cable/input and the rest using component.

The weakest performance with the latest setup is the DVD part IMO. The NRS, while being a pretty good processor, is a bit behind the times when it comes to deinterlacing.

Unfortunately, I do have the dust blob problem. Have three now, will have to send it in soon. I'm holding off in the hope that they will get more on top of this. I don't want to have Ken's experience where they fixed the dust problem but screwed up the convergence. Mine is near perfect in this regard.

Icon, thanks for keeping us updated. I hope things are going better for you down in New Orleans!

Dan

[QUOTE=DanHouck
Icon, thanks for keeping us updated. I hope things are going better for you down in New Orleans!
Dan[/QUOTE]


I am doing OK. I am rebuilding my business as an Apple Macintosh dealer and consultant.

I actually have a locally owned top flight hotel considering putting an SX50 into a theater room that is on their drawing boards. The owner came and saw my demo and loved the big picture capability, color intensity and lack of SDE. I feel fairly confident now that any units I get from Canon directly as a direct dealer for their projectors will be dust blob free. If I get the SX50 into this hotel it could help propel my Canon SX50 sales to other clients including hotels which is a market I had not previously addressed.

I have not tested it yet but the new iMac G5 could hold promise as a good DVD player. It has external video out and now includes a REMOTE CONTROL. Also the 17" model has dropped to $1299 plus cost of needed extra RAM. I have not tested one yet with my SX50 since I had to sell my demo unit on an emergency deal Friday but I also think it has digital audio output which is lacking in the Mac mini. Rumors have a new Mac mini that will be Pentium based shipping early in 2006 - possibly even January. Don't know if the digital audio issue or needed improvement in its video card will be addressed. The issue with both will remain the video player application and the lack of complex digital processing to deal with the macroblocking, etc. Future Macs will likely come with Blue Ray players/recorders if Apple holds to their agreement made with Sony earlier this year.

I still want to hear more about that HDCP/HDMI splitter. Is it working OK now and will it work with the forthcoming HiDef DVD players so the HDMI lacking SX50 will connect to them through it???????

Icon Master

Icon. haven't hooked it up yet as everything is still routed through my NRS.

Dan

Icon. haven't hooked it up yet as everything is still routed through my NRS.
Dan

Don't we need to test it to see if it gets us pass the HDCP issue on our SX50's?

I have an old B&K receiver. I am thinking of upgrading my audio system. I have been reading that section here but it seems like the focus there is on good cheap receivers and high end stuff. Since several of us in this SX50 thread seem to have the same view on how to spend our "toy" budget I'd be curious to hear what brand/model of preamps, amps, receivers you SX50 fans are using. I was looking at the new B&K receiver for around $3K but I cannot find anyone here or elsewhere that has given it a thorough test. I'd like to stick in the $3K to $5K range but I have to admit that some of the less costly receivers seem to have pretty good reviews and are probably better than my five year old B&K that also cost about $3K.

Feel free to post what audio gear you bought, why you choose it and if you have any alternatives you would consider if you were in the market now.

Thanks,

Icon Master

Need to share a little anxious pain here. My SX50 is back at Canon at their request over the panel misalignment.

I got a call from a very polite technician that didn't sound too promising. He said he measured my misalignment and it was within spec. :(

He promised to take my requests for a new factory unit or to fix it right anyway to his manager. I'm waiting for a call back.

I decided that at $5K retail Canon should make it right. I'm surprised they won't just replace the unit. It's obvious the dust issue was a snafu design flaw.

I'm hoping they'll do the right thing or something close enough.

A bit of technical info: They replace the prism for the dust fix. Also, only my loaner will take 1080P/60 so I think there are definitely different versions of firmware. Of course I asked them once again to update my unit.

Ken

I have a Parasound pre-amp, Sunfire Cinema Grand II amp, and the big Kef speakers and dipoles for speakers. I have a Bag End InfraSub 18 for subwoofer.

Ken, so they screwed up your convergence when they replaced the prism?

I agree, they should replace these projectors, not fiddle with them. Guess its time to make a stink.

Dan

Alright Dan! Let's put together mob and go get our new projectors :)

Seriously, they should replace these units. I'll give Canon a few more days to respond. Maybe we could both give them a call? Anyone else feel the same way and want to join in?

Icon, I have Anthem D1, Sunfire 2 channel, Krell 2 channel, Mackie Active Studio Monitors, Hales T1's, Dunlavy SM1, Monitor Audio PMC-705's, Fried A/6's. Definitive Ultimate Inwalls.

My main HT setup is 5.1 using the D1 with custom DIY balanced cables to 3 Mackie Actives LCR and Inwalls for rears. (Sunfire drives the rears) Oh yeah, Dunlavy sub.

Ken

Definitely. Post the contact information and let's go for it. Icon, it appears you had better luck with the people you were working with, maybe we should be talking to them.

Dan

Hi,

I recommended the Canon to a friend who has very specific requirements. He will only be playing DVD's that are 4:3 that were shot with video (as opposed to film). His discs do not have HDCP.

I suggested the Oppo DVD player for him.

I have one question. A major issue will be the quality of the deinterlacing a video source. How will does the Oppo do with video source material?

Since copy protection is not an issue is there a better affordable solution for his requirements?

Thanks!

Mitch

The Oppo should do great at deinterlacing. It has the Genesis 23xx chip with Faroudja deinterlacing. Plus, I'm sure he won't be able to resist popping in a few other movies now and again?

Ken

Definitely. Post the contact information and let's go for it. Icon, it appears you had better luck with the people you were working with, maybe we should be talking to them.
Dan

I think Ken was working with my Tech contact at Canon but he is merely a tech phone guy. The repair work is done elsewhere. I suppose my unit was from a fresh factory batch that has the fix in it. I still have yet to see a dust blob. I have not checked pixel alignment because if it is off a tad, I don't see it in the stuff I watch and don't even want to know as I posted previously.

You guys have way better audio systems than I. Do you also have a separate sound proof HT rooms to keep the wife from bitching when things get loud?

Mel

A bit of technical info: They replace the prism for the dust fix. Also, only my loaner will take 1080P/60 so I think there are definitely different versions of firmware. Of course I asked them once again to update my unit.
Ken

Ken -

Is the loaner showing any misalignment or dust blobs? If not then perhaps it is a later version with all the fixes. Maybe you can get them to let you keep it?

Icon Master

Icon,

No, it has blobs - big ones!

I am tempted to send it in for the dust fix and then keep it if it turns out better than mine.

I won't be super happy if they don't make it perfect, but the Ruby guys seem content with 1-3 pixels of misconvergence. Almost makes me feel lucky to have only .8.

I really don't understand being content with this. Why pursue and pay for 1050 or 1080P and then be content with the 540P or less you get with just one pixel of misconvergence. Sounds like the Ruby guys are saying we didn't need 1080P after all.

Do you see any misconvergence on your new dust free unit? You can see it easily with the menu up. Look at the edge of the white letters. Mine has .8 pixels of bright blue on top

Dan,

Let me talk to Canon one more time and see what they say. Then we'll start the stink if necessary.

Ken

Ken,

Don't know if you saw this, but Sony is replacing the Ruby that had the misconvergence issue. The owner called and explained the issue, they said it was not normal and they would replace it.

- Chris

Chris, I saw that and I'm glad for it. But the mood of that thread is that the Ruby and the Qualia are going to have misconvergence and its fine.

Anyone who trully feels this way, must admit that they also feel 1080P is overkill.

Misconvergence == Reduced Rez

Ken

The Oppo should do great at deinterlacing. It has the Genesis 23xx chip with Faroudja deinterlacing. Plus, I'm sure he won't be able to resist popping in a few other movies now and again?

Ken

Thanks Ken!

Best Wishes,

Mitch

Big SX50 day. Got an email from Canon promising a call about my unit. (but no call)

Used a great utility from the HTPC Forum called JudderTest to explore the video tearing. Good news for PAL Lovers - 50Hz is perfect. 59-62 is not. At least not at 1400x1050.

Purchased a very nice PSO-SX21a anamorphic lens (PSO-100) to play with.

Ken

Hi Ken,

I can confirm that with PAL the SX50 does not experience judder or tear at 1400x1050.

Let us know what your impression of using the PSO is. I feel the gains in resolution and brightness are offset by the slight lens distortion and reduction in contrast.

Regards
Dean

Dean,

I can't remember. What lens do/did you put on your Canon?

I was hoping the PSO-100 was of sufficient quality. Of course they have the PSO-120 now.

Not checking 60Hz and native panel rez is certainly a very sloppy oversight on Canon's part. I know it works great at 720P,1080i, and 1080P @60Hz, but still.

Ken

Yes, big oversight as most of the WW market is 60Hz, although I'm happy in PAL land with higher vertical resolution. I travel stateside often and the first thing I notice when I turn on the TV in the hotel room is the gaps between the vertical scan lines!

I use the prismsonic HT100 lens, suppost to be one of the best, just that I think the superior resolution & optics of the Canon shows the lens flaws more when doing a with/without comparison than it would when used with lesser projectors.

Regards,
Dean

Icon,
Do you see any misconvergence on your new dust free unit? You can see it easily with the menu up. Look at the edge of the white letters. Mine has .8 pixels of bright blue on top
Ken

You must have way better eyes than I. How do you measure .8 of a pixel :)

Icon Master

I design imaging hardware and software for a living, so I'm probably more picky than most.

To me, the .8 pixel misalignment makes it impossible to properly focus as fine edges and details never quite "snap". Again, why buy a 1050P projector and then be happy with 540P in resolving power?

I sure wish I'd get that call from Canon. I want to get this resolved. (pun intended)

Ken

Just a note for anyone interested. I received my PSO-SX21 Panamorph. (optics of PSO-100 with bracket for SX21)

The good news is that it is very sharp and very bright. The increase in sharpness and brightness are very easy to see. Another plus is the reduction in edge enhancement. It pulls the EE line in enough on top and bottom to help a bit.

I'll have to rig up a bracket, but its an easy fit. The lens has at least more than a 1/4" of leeway side to side or up and down and can be anywhere from right against the lens to 2-3" out.

I got a great deal on a used one.

Ken

Can you bring it over? I am interested in using one for my DWIN TV4....

Sure TA. Wait until you see what I can do with a hack saw, some iron bar, and a dog collar. :)

How's later this week looking? I'm booked Wed. but that's it.

Ken

Woohoo! Turns out Canon is giving me a nice Christmas present of a shiny NEW SX50 to replace my unit!!!

Had the priority call waiting on my voicemail at work this morning straight from Canon Corporate Headquarters in New York.

I hope its perfect. We watched Sahara last night with the anamorphic lens and the whole family ageed its a nicer picture. Looked better to me than the Sahara demo I got at Cedia on a JVC HD2K.

Hopefully the rest of you can use me as an example to get your own dust free replacements. Even if you got it at a good Street Price, the dust problem is really a sloppy oversight that Canon should replace. They never intended, and you never wanted, such an animal.

Either way, WAY TO GO CANON!!!

Ken

Let's try for Thurs....with whomever....

Ok, we're on.

No Ruby contenders yet.

Ken

Well.... looking forward the dust FREE Canon and panamorph.........

How'd it go folks?

Later,
Bill

It was great. I didn't get Texas Aggie his Corona Light, but no complaints with the Shiner Boch I provided :)

TA's HT continues to amaze. He showed us his hidden speakers nooks and his ceiling mounted hush box is perfect.

We measured and evaluated his Dwin TV4 and found it to be pretty good OOTB. The extra CR over the SX50 was lush on the darker Charlotte Gray. But what I really liked was ESPN HD at 720P!

One thing that surprised me was how little the SDE bothered me at just over one screen width. It was there, but rarely bothersome. 1.5X would be fine.

We didn't hook up my SX50 loaner. My new one still isn't in yet.

We did play around with the Panamorph on the Dwin and it has real potential.

I forgot my SDI cable so we were limited to HDMI.

Ken

NEVER complain about Shiner!

Enjoyed as well. We will really have to set a date with a serious PJ lineup. But it was nice to tweak my DWIN with some *expert* advice.

Now if I could just my Aggies in a bowl gamw to watch in 720P:(

Just found out I'm gong to CES! I'll be able to stop by Canon's booth and see if they have anything cooking. The US SX50 Prod. Mgr. said I should stop by and check it out.

I forgot it was my Sister's B-day and she wants a trip to CES. What's a little brother to do? :)

Ken

It was fun getting to meet another local HT enthusiast and share some thoughts on this hobby. TA should be very proud of his setup.

Is there a reason this thread isn;t in the LCos SXRD forum? I had lost track of it and found it sitting here where it always was.

Only Ruby threads were moved there. Even the JVC sticky is still here.

That must mean the SX50 is considered "Hi-End" and Ruby is not :)

Ken

Hey Ken, see if you can find someone at Canon to help us with our retrofit problem. I'm glad for you but the $64 question is, are they willing to replace all of these early units with the dust problem? Thanks!

Dan

For about 2 or 3 weeks I've been getting them! Dust Blobs. At first I thought they were slight stains on my screen, but turning the focus, as was mentioned, I could see quite a bit of dust! So, to the voice of the many who are pros on this: Who would I call? What should I say? Some have suggested a 'firmware' update. Should I say something about the possibility of pixel misalignment when being shipped? Do I get a replacement projector BEFORE I have to send my 'dusty' one out? Is there anything else I should know, ask, be aware of ect...?
I did save everything from when I first got the projector just in case this would happen; the box it was shipped in, reciept ect.
Thanks everyone for any help and for a great SX50 thread!

Ray

You pretty much listed all the relevant questions. Ken, you've been through the process, could you list the contact and handling information from your apparently successful efforts to get this resolved? Thanks.

Dan

I got the loaner through my dealer. I'm assuming he'll want it back some day, but I'm not sending it back until I have an acceptable keeper.

I'm not sure, but I'm hoping to see my contact in person at CES. I'm planning on talking to him about what they want to do for everyone.

If he's going to be there I'll wait. Otherwise I'll try to call him tomorrow and see if he wants to be the contact. I imagine he'll decide, but then have everybody just call the regular number in NJ.

Maybe they'll let us trade them in on the the new 2.35:1 projector? :)

Ken

It sure would be nice if they would fix the tearing with 1400 x 1050 and 1400 x 788.

1080p looks good for video, but the bigger icons sure would be nice for the desktop.

I have tried for a few hours to find a good frequency for 1400 x 788 that has little to no tearing with no luck.

I have settled on 1080p in normal screen mode at 60 hertz for now.

Dan,

Are you running DVI now? What res? and any tearing?

Snorf

Either way this thing is so crisp and bright with DVD and OTA HD I love it evertime I turn it on.

Snorf,

I came to the same conclusion that 1080P is best at 60Hz for 4:3. I use 1080i when I want 16:9. Although I didn't critically evaluate Wide with 1080P to get 16:9.

My wife and I visited a custom install shop over the weekend. They had a few Sim2 models setup. Even in very dark conditions they were so dim and lifeless. Maybe they were just milking old lamps.

Ken

If running native resolution of 1400 x 1050 from a scaler such as the iScan HD+ with a DVI to RGB transcoder, does the Canon's remote allow shift downward of the 16x9 panel as does JVC's G series?

Thanks Ken, keep us posted. My dust blob problem is still tolerable, but my environment is clean and I am a fanatic about keeping the filter clean.

Man, the football this weekend in HD sure looked good on this unit. Especially when the 'skins made the playoffs and the Cowgirls got beat again by the RAMS! LOL!

Wednesday night could be either profitable or expensive, depending on whether the 'horns come through for me. Watched ND and Ohio State this afternoon (we beat Ohio State) and the latter looked pretty impressive, yep. You'll recall that USC barely got by Ohio State.

GO LONGHORNS!

Man, the football this weekend in HD sure looked good on this unit. Especially when the 'skins made the playoffs and the Cowgirls got beat again by the RAMS! LOL!
Hey Dan, broke out my beloved 'Skins jacket to show to all the whiny Dal-ass fans I work with. They are very much in denial - pity HAAHAHA.

That wasn't nice, Mike!!

But it sure was sweet, I'll bet! :D

Now let's take Tampa Bay.

Dan

Ken,

I just installed a 15 foot Studiotech 130 screen and really enjoying the large screen sensation. The screen adds extra punch without any sparklies or sheen that you sometimes see on higher gain screens, better color, and the resolving power of the studio tech is much better than my old bedsheet! However it also makes the dust blobs more obvious in a white screen, I have about 40 of the suckers now.

So I'm also hanging out for the information about the dust blob fix.

I spoke to Canon Australia and they deny any official fix for the dust blob problem even after I explained that Canon in the US was fixing units. The tech on the phone was reasonable and even though he said Canon Australia does not follow the same policy as Canon US, he asked me to obtain the details about the Canon US fix so that he can chase it up with his tech support department. Apparently there should be an engineering fix/patch number that the Canon techs use as the reference information about the fix. In Canon speak it is called a "support document". If you could find out as much as possible about its content or even just the support document reference number then I can pass it onto Canon Australia.

Regards,
Dean

Hey Dan, broke out my beloved 'Skins jacket to show to all the whiny Dal-ass fans I work with. They are very much in denial - pity HAAHAHA.

So you're gonna play on more game than them.
Big whoop... ;)

Dean,

Wow, I would like to see that screen. (and the pile of green is must have cost :) )

I'll scan my Repair Order so you can email it to your guy. It clearly states in the Repair Details: "APPLY DUST FIX"

It would be hard to apply a "FIX" that didn't exist? :)

Just got a voicemail and an email that my replacement will be here tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed that it has the dust fix and perfect panel alignment. I guess no tearing at native res is too much to hope for?

Ken

Thanks Ken. I'd appeciate it if you could ask your tech what the support document number (generic patch/fix reference number) is so that the Australian tech support guys can look it up here.

Cost of the screen was not so bad as I just bought the material and made my own frame. A bit of a hassle but saved lots of "green" (actually "orange" down under!). Using a large screen to me is the essence of a home theater and IMO only possible with a good scaler / HTPC and a bright projector like the SX50.

Regards,
Dean

Hey Dean,

It will be tomorrow before I get to it. I meant to bring the paperwork home with me to scan it, but forgot it at work.

I was just realizing how absolutely huge that screen of yours is! You'll have to PM the details. I'm at 92" right now trying to get to 110 or maybe 119". But you're at 180"!

Ken

Ken,

Got my diagonal calculation wrong. Screen is 12 feet wide x 6.5 feet tall = 13.7' diagonal (and I sit at 1.1x screen width). No screen door, but I do get mpeg artifacts if I dont use a video processor like ffdhow.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Dean

I've got my DustFix order scanned if anyone thinks it will help. It doesn't refer to a particular patch/fix number but has the phone number and proves the fix exists.

On the phone they said they replaced the optical block.

It's too big to upload so PM me and I'll email it.

Dean,

Where/how did you get the material? I know that material is pretty much the best going.

Ken

I would be interested in knowing that, too. Say Dean where did you buy it and what did you pay for it (okay you can PM me if this would be against the forum rules).

Have a chat to Jason or Alan from AVScience, the owners of this forum, as they are very competitive and have great service. I had to buy elsewhere as it is Stewart policy for retailers not to sell outside their country. I saved about 60% purchasing just the material and having it shipped to Australia, the prices in Australia for Stewart are sky high due to limited distribution.

Regards,
Dean

RonF, as far as I can determine you cannot shift the image using the projector alone. I went all through the manual and menus and could find nothing that can do this. I think you'll need to use a scaler to accomplish this.

Dan

Hi Ken,

I'd appreciate it if you could send me the scan of your Canon service receipt for the dust fix. I sent you a PM and email mid week with my details.

Regards,
Dean

Dean,

I emailed it. Let me know if you didn't get it.

I just looked. I sent it four days ago1/5/06 at 6:33 PM.

Might need something better than a hotmail account :)

Hey everyone, I got my replacement SX50. The alignment is perfect and so far no dust. I think it was manufactured in Nov.

It's a beautiful, bright image.

Ken

Ken I saw a Ruby and Qualia in Dallas last week. Not really bright but REALLY smooth.

When looking at both it really TOUGH to justify the $$$ for the qualia.

Bring your new one over sometime. I would love to see mine on that high power!

Kenland, now tell us how to get a new unit for our dusty ones! Fortunately, the dust does not interfere with the HD football which is GREAT on this unit!

Dan