TA,

I'd like to see it as well. I just wish my highpower was as big as your Grayhawk.
It should be big enough to give you the idea.

Dan,

Well, it takes time and effort. You have to make it cheaper for them to send you a new unit than to respond to (or delete) all of your emails. :)

I just finished my Star Trek collection and my kids and I have been enjoying it on the Canon. The colors are so right.

Ken

I may just take the plunge and buy a High Power.....

Why would you use a High Power with this bright projector? I'm finding the Firehawk is perfect for it, helps address the weak CR/black and gives it a little boost at the same time, allowing me to run it only on low lamp.

Aggie, you can buy just the Firehawk insert for your screen from Stewart, they keep a data file on every screen. Don't have to replace the frame.

BTW, the fight the Aggies put up against Texas is all the more impressive given that Texas won the #1 spot. Unfortunately, with Vince Young going to the pros, they probably won't be back next year. On the other hand, Houston has got to be thrilled as they have the #1 pick.

Dan

Just upgraded my Oppo DVD player to the latest firmware (with new remote) and even added a cheap manual DVI switch to allow switching between my cheapo, everyday viewing Mitsubishi projector and my Canon SX50. Contrary to reports elsewhere here the Oppo using a Monster brand 3 feet cable to the switch and a 30 foot cable from the DVI switch to the SX50 projector shows no signal loss or degradation. In fact Oppo's output is so sharp and rich in conjunction with the Canon SX50, I have a hard time discerning this upscaling DVI combination from a true HiDef source like HBO HiDef from Direct TV.

I just watched the recent Star Wars DVD and the great Chinese flick called "Hero" on my "little" ten foot (in 16:9 mode, 11' in 4:3) image on my Studiotek 130 and it is just incredible. I feel sorry for those Ruby folks paying all that money to get dim, smaller image outputs and now they are already second guessing themselves over the forthcoming H81 DLP projector also selling for around $10K. That is a battle you cannot win.

In case those in this thread missed it, the Oppo was voted as one of the products of the year so I hope you guys stop screwing around with your external analog up and down converts and just get one to tide you over till the true HiDef DVD stuff gets resolved and reasonable in cost. Looks like we'll need that HDCP coupling device since it appears that both HiDef DVD player "camps" will likely not allow component output.

Icon Master

I have to admit Icon, I heard your rant and finally bought the Oppo for my 50" DVI LCD RP at Christmas. I love it!

Man does that deinterlacing rock on video.

Well VY was truly a decade type player.....he made that team period. Next year will indeed be interesting. Congrats.

Firehawks can really hotspot....I am REALLY sensitive to that. My DWIN is bright but brighter is better ;)

I feel sorry for those Ruby folks paying all that money to get dim, smaller image outputs and now they are already second guessing themselves over the forthcoming H81 DLP projector also selling for around $10K.
Icon Master

Priceless!

- Chris

Aggie, I'm not having any significant hot spotting with my firehawk but I also have my projector placed at the near maximum throw point. I would have thought the Hi Power would hot spot worse.

Yeah, next year without Vince Young will be interesting but you'll be playing in OUR house. :D

Dan

I have to admit Icon, I heard your rant and finally bought the Oppo for my 50" DVI LCD RP at Christmas. I love it!
Man does that deinterlacing rock on video.

Thanks!

There are a lot of hard 'heads' about (starting with my own). Sometimes you have to knock "heads" about to get through to them! There are very few out-of-the-box thinkers. Plodding through here sometimes is like watching sheep paying their way to the slaughter so yes I accept my role (here) as a troublemaking "ranter." :)

Icon Master

Well VY was truly a decade type player.....he made that team period. Next year will indeed be interesting. Congrats.



Will be interesting to see if the, for the moment, New Orleanas Sants go with him if the running back from USC (which one?) goes first.

While VY is a great and gifted athelete, you cannot do what he does (run 50%) every game and stay healthy as a QB in the NFL. So take him or the less athletic, immobile, "brainy" QB from USC? 'Course Houston may take VY? Or Houston could trade down and someone else will take VY? The draft will be very interesting.

Icon Master

If anyone is interested, I have had a positive response from Canon Australia. They are going to fix the dust blobs on my SX50 (apparently the fix has something to do with the dust filter mechanism not the prism?). Hopefully the turn around will be quick (5 days estimated).

Regards,
Dean

Kenland:

You've got a PM.

Thanks,

Scott

Ok, I think the final word is just send it in and get the dust fix. Here is the important info. (for US only)

> Thanks for considering our High Resolution Projector for your projection
> needs. Here is the address for our Factory Service Center. Be sure to
> include a copy of your invoice and a note explaining what issues you are
> experiencing.
>
> Canon U.S.A., Inc
> 100 Jamesburg Road
> Jamesburg, NJ 08831
> Tel: 732-521-7007
>

Make sure you mention "Dust Fix" and include your contact info.

Ken

Ken,

Did you get any more technical info about the dust fix or reference number? I have a nagging feeling that I'll get my projector back with a fatter filter :eek: and that's all and the dust will be back in 6 months.

Regards,
Dean

Dean,

Sorry, the US guy said there was no such number or document.

That can't be true of course, since the techs have to have the procedure to follow, but I guess you're on your own - sorry :(

I hope it goes well for you.

Ken

OK, thanks Ken. I'll cross my fingers then. I must say that Canon have provided good customer service.

Regards,
Dean

Hi,

I just recieved an Oppo (thanks to Icon for the information!). I have an SX-50 on the way. Two or three days after it arrives I am obligated to use it to show some DVD's (4:3) to several hundred people for a non-profit. I am concerned about potential problems that I won't have time to sort out. Two (for now) questions:
1. According to the specs the Oppo outputs DVI-D and comes with a cable. According to the specs the Canon accepts DVI-I. Will the cable that comes with the Oppo work with the Canon or will I need a different cable or adaptor?

2. The room will be dark. I have access to two screens with a gain of 1.0. I am leaning towards an 8' x 6' screen (120" diagonal) which the projector central screen calculator said will result in 20fl. My other option is 10' x 6' (150" diagonal) which is supposed to yield 13fl. 13fl seems on the dim end of the scale and I would like a bright image so I am leaning towards the 8' x 6' screen. Is that a good choice? Is 20fl to much (no blacks)? Should I use a ND Filter? If so which one and where do I order it (need to order ASAP)? Or would the larger screen be better?

I really appreciate any suggestions or advice!

Thanks!

Mitch

Mitch, my screen is larger than 150" diagonal and in a dark room it is plenty bright. Keep in mind that you will have a new bulb at its brightest. This projector gets panned because its not a "true" home theater projector but almost all "true" home theater projectors would not be able to use a larger screen & still have a bright image.

Dont be too concerned with black level but do check the projector is setup correctly (use a setup disk or at least the THX setup 'extra' with some DVDs like Star Wars) to display a decent black level, shadow detail (linear grey scale) and white levels by adjusting the contrast and brightness. This projector has a reasonable out of the box setup without much tweaking required. A larger screen will also lower the black level as the residual light needs to spread across a larger area.

The problem you may have is scaling or DVD artifacts if your audience sits to close to the screen. Keep them at least 1x screen width away. I use a PC with scaling software and get a smooth well defined picture on a big screen which is hard to do with DVD. I can't comment on the oppo as a source.

Go with the larger screen and impress your audience.

Regards,
Dean

I use a PC with scaling software and get a smooth well defined picture on a big screen which is hard to do with DVD. I can't comment on the oppo as a source.

Go with the larger screen and impress your audience.
Dean

Mitch -

I am using a 30' DVI heavy duty cable from my Oppo up to the SX50 and it works fine w/o any artifacts, sparkles, etc. I never did check or use the cable with the Oppo since it would not reach my ceiling mounted unit.

I just had my brother-in-law over to watch some of the playoff games yesterday and I had been bragging to him about how great the Oppo & SX50 work together. He is a architect that designs and builds professional video installations that run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars and beyond. Like many here he is hard headed and refused to listen to my advice. Many of his installations are in corporate board rooms, educational institutions, etc but like the folks in that industry tend to go with products advertised in their trade journals. Sanyo projectors is a big player in that corporate/education market.

Anyway needless to say when he saw my SX50 playing HiDef network football and then I did a Oppo demo with the recent Star Wars DVD as the source material he was blown away. When I asked him if he ever had done an installation with this quality of an image - he could not even answer. He was speechless. We did a comparison of the same S.W. DVD with another DVD player feeding component to the SX50 and again he was stunned by how much sharper and higher quality the image was with the Oppo as the source to the SX50. He could not believe how good the $199 OPPO was and he made me go back and forth several times with the other component based DVD player to confirm the obvious differences in the image quality. The Oppo was far sharper, with more image detail and had far better color depth and saturation.

There are even some stubborn, hard headed SX50 owners in this forum that are so entrenched in doing things the hard way, they refuse to buy an Oppo and put themselves out of their own admitted self-induced techno misery. I guess they feel the need to impress their wives and/or mistresses with their PC's twirling and lights flashing. Having that extra complexity is sure to impress the fairer sex and it is also a sure-fire way to keep them from playing with our grown-up(?) boy toys. After all we don't want our wives simply puting a DVD into a player and turning on the projector when we aren't around! :)

I did do a bit of tweaking of my SX50 with the Oppo by using one of the setup DVD's but the default values with the RGB "color" setting on the SX50 are just fine. Go with the bigger screen as Dean suggested and you still may even get by with econo-mode on the lamp setting.

"Blow away" your audience with your SX50/Oppo combo and let the folks in this forum know how it went. Maybe you will be able to get through to these stubborn guys where I failed.

Icon Master

1. According to the specs the Oppo outputs DVI-D and comes with a cable. According to the specs the Canon accepts DVI-I. Will the cable that comes with the Oppo work with the Canon or will I need a different cable or adaptor?

DVI-I stands for Digital Video Interface - Integrated and means a DVI connector that can transmit or receive both analog and digital video data. The Canon can accept either a analog or digital signal via its DVI connector. The DVI-D cable that came with my Oppo worked just fine with my SX50 feeding it a digital signal.

I concur with the others on the screen size. With a new SX50 in a dark room you can easily go 150"

Scot

Hi,

Dean, Icon and Scot, thank you all very much!

The projector is supposed to arrive between Jan 25th (Thursday) and Jan 31 (the following Tuesday) and the event is Feb 3rd, 4th and 5th. If I have any problems or questions getting everything working you will be the first to know :) .

After the event I will definitely post back the results.

Thanks Again!

Mitch

2. The room will be dark. I have access to two screens with a gain of 1.0. I am leaning towards an 8' x 6' screen (120" diagonal) which the projector central screen calculator said will result in 20fl. My other option is 10' x 6' (150" diagonal) which is supposed to yield 13fl. 13fl seems on the dim end of the scale and I would like a bright image so I am leaning towards the 8' x 6' screen. Is that a good choice? Is 20fl to much (no blacks)? Should I use a ND Filter? If so which one and where do I order it (need to order ASAP)? Or would the larger screen be better?

I really appreciate any suggestions or advice!

Thanks!

Mitch

Bigger is better! :D The SX50 can throw a BIG picture. I took my 8.5 foot screen down to reconfigure my room, and temporarily projected onto my white wall at 10 feet wide. I've ended up leaving it that way for 2 weeks now. :) The picture is just amazing at that size, and I could go much bigger, if the wall was bigger. All of this is on low lamp mode. Its brightness and lack of SDE make this a perfect large screen projector.

Hook this baby up to a High Def source on a big screen, and just try to wipe the grin off your face. :D

BTW, the DVI cable packed with Oppo works just fine.

Congrats!
Art

Ken,

I got a Denon 1920 and the HDMI is wonderful.....It will last me until Blue Ray or HD-DVD....

Want to try the high power?

Great news TA! That little RCA rig was holding you back.

I'll be out of pocket until 2nd week of Feb. If you want I can drop off the HP at your place.

Did I tell you I made it to CES? BD or HD-DVD is soooooo much better.

Ken

Please do. Just let me know when it is convenient for you.

TA

There are even some stubborn, hard headed SX50 owners in this forum that are so entrenched in doing things the hard way, they refuse to buy an Oppo and put themselves out of their own admitted self-induced techno misery. I guess they feel the need to impress their wives and/or mistresses with their PC's twirling and lights flashing. Having that extra complexity is sure to impress the fairer sex and it is also a sure-fire way to keep them from playing with our grown-up(?) boy toys. After all we don't want our wives simply puting a DVD into a player and turning on the projector when we aren't around!

Icon Master, not sure if this post is aimed at me as I seem to be the only SX50 regular poster on this forum using a PC - but you do have a bit of a reputation as a "stirrer" (an Aussie term meaning provocative personality, a common trait for Australians!) so I'll ignore your "stir" :rolleyes:

I'm sure the oppo does a good job for what it is, but can your oppo surf the internet, play high definition games, be used for high quality CD audio, control your home theater (eg. curtains)? All this and more is possible with a PC. Sure it takes some work to get it right and needs computer skills, but the rewards are worth it. It is pretty unlikely the oppo can beat a properly setup PC using FFDSHOW with video processing filters like LimitedSharpening, and when you are using a large screen this extra video processing for DVD sources is a must.

Oh, put a DVD into the PC and it automatically plays, and the skip, stop, play etc. buttons work just fine on the remote too... :D

Regards,
Dean

I thought he was talking about me with my SDI mods, scalers, and my secret HDCP box.

But his words are like telling a sailer they could have gotten there faster in a motor boat.

I think HTPC is the perfect companion to the SX50 if you have plenty of OTA HD. Otherwise you need to do something about HDCP from the cable/sat box.

Ken

Icon Master, not sure if this post is aimed at me as I seem to be the only SX50 regular poster on this forum using a PC - but you do have a bit of a reputation as a "stirrer" (an Aussie term meaning provocative personality, a common trait for Australians!) so I'll ignore your "stir" :rolleyes:

I'm sure the oppo does a good job for what it is, but can your oppo surf the internet, play high definition games, be used for high quality CD audio, control your home theater (eg. curtains)? All this and more is possible with a PC. Sure it takes some work to get it right and needs computer skills, but the rewards are worth it. It is pretty unlikely the oppo can beat a properly setup PC using FFDSHOW with video processing filters like LimitedSharpening, and when you are using a large screen this extra video processing for DVD sources is a must.

Dean

Stirrer?? Me?? No way!! :)

Since I use a Macintosh, I doubt if you know what "PC" actually stands for so I'll tell you - Piece of Cr...

While you "PC" guys are spending bucks and mucho time beating those viruses and spywares back in a constant ebb and flow battle with hackers, we Mac folks use our computers to do real cool things. Probably 75% of the movies/content we watch at the movies, on TV or on DVD are edited and then mastered on Macs and not Pieces of ....

You guys won't admit it but you are tinker’ers and you (errantly) think you are doing better by using your PC as a video source. Now yow might have something when it comes to clearing up SD TV. I'd like to see you turn SD into HiDef and then I might be convinced that you have something worthwhile.

But I have to yell Halt!!!!!!!! Halt!!!!! when I hear you say your PC is a match for the Oppo on playing DVD's. Perhaps I have missed something so tell me... What program do you have in your "PC" or inside your video card that is a match for the two custom video processing chips used in the Oppo? How many years and man hours did it take for Farouja (S?) to take their once $50,000 incredible video processors and essentially shrink them down to one chip? And now you guys are trying to tell me your PC's have chip sets on their video card and/or programs, as in a sharpening filter, that can match the complex video algorithms in those proprietary chip sets? Give me a break cause it can't be so!

Kindly explain how a "Piece of blank" can emualte these complex video chips so simple common folks like me will understand that you are not just using your PC's to keep wives and family out of "our" HT domain? Also explain what is wrong with putting in a SD DVD into a $199 player and having it look like a HiDef one when displayed on a huge wall or screen with our SX50's after only having to push the play button?

Maybe if you relented on these techno itches you feel the need to constantly scratch and bought an Oppo you could sell off those Pieces of Cr.. to some “unconverted” PC suckers and get yourselves a real computer - as in Macintosh. Then you would truly understand what computing is all about. And since with a Mac you won't have to be detoxing (as in virus/spyware) your computer half (or more) the time, you will find you have more time to watch more DVD movies looking like really fine HiDef ones in your HT.

Icon Master

Stirrer?? Me?? No way!! :)

Probably 75% of the movies/content we watch at the movies, on TV or on DVD are edited and then mastered on Macs and not Pieces of ....

Icon Master

I don't know what possesses me to respond, but I doubt this is correct. My best friend does all of his animation with a PC. To my knowledge, all of his friends use a PC for animation. I am sure there are Mac users in the animation world, but nothing like 75%. In case your wondering, my friend did the cylon animation for BSG in a couple of episodes. Also, his sister in law did the DVD mastering for the Star Wars trilogy. I can ask again, but I don't believe THX used a Mac.

Ericglo

Also, his sister in law did the DVD mastering for the Star Wars trilogy. I can ask again, but I don't believe THX used a Mac.


Ask!

I seem to recall seeing some bits on Apple's web sites about how Macs were used in certain parts of the recent productions of Star Wars.

"Final Cut Pro" is THE Mac professional video editing program that can be purchased with a suite of other programs for around $1000. This suite will turn virtually any recent G5 based Mac into a video editing machine that can match $20K to $100K PC based and even RISC based dedicated video editing workstations. Hollywood loves Apple/Mac and that is why you see so many even in the movies and TV shows.

Icon Master

There's more than one way to generate a beautiful picture, and certainly Oppo isn't the only way to do so. I won't knock its circuitry but not all PCs put out the same quality video (just as not all DVD players), and it would be wrong to believe so. I've 'tinkered' and tweaked only slightly, but like others, enjoy the tinkering anyway (by the way, many people with dedicated DVD players, even apparently "Icon Master" has done quite a bit of 'tinkering' with their non-PCs). My 'custom' made PC works very beautifully on my 130" screen and every one who ever sees it agrees.

Other reasons we prefer DVDs on our computer, we download HD movie trailers and watch them clearer than any DVD playing machine could ever do! We play a small collection of WMV-HD DVDs that makes a sharper image than any DVD playing machine could ever do (until HD-DVD/BluRay comes out anyway). I've been getting and watching Region 4 DVDs with nearly 100 more lines of resolution than Region 1 DVDs, and, yes is sharper than any DVD playing machine could ever do (in America anyhow! "deandob" already has that edge over us on that!). The PC software program not only allows playing any region DVDs but gives you the option (and we take it!) of dropping the DVD in the tray and starting out right away at the beginning of the movie (not even having to "push the play button"!), skipping the time-consuming, lightbulb-burning copyright notice and menu! Nice feature, could Oppo do that?

I'm not downing the DVD playing machine, we'll probably get one some day, but being able to 'explain' a chip doesn't mean you get a better picture, just like being able to explain a car engine means you have a better one!

BTW, I have a half a dozen PCs in my house and never 'spent [any] bucks and mucho time beating those viruses and spywares back in a constant ebb and flow battle with hackers', and they have been running flawlessly, two of them since upgrading them from Windows 98, updated from Windows 95, and used heavily by preschool and now school-aged kids. Just don't open any e-mail unless your sure who it's from!

Icon,

Ever wonder why virus writers dont target the Mac? There aren't enough Macs around to bother with :p

Don't get me wrong, the Mac is a good "piece of cr...." platform, however in the computing game its all about volume & market size, which drives R&D spend, wide range of peripherals & software, cheap prices and plenty of choice. With the Mac you have very limited choice and pay a priviledge for that limited choice.

Using a PC as a multimedia source gives you flexibility, variety, upgradeability and good bang for buck that you dont get with any other solution. Are you able to upgrade your oppo when the next wiz bang video chip comes out?

I'm sure the oppo is a great device and good value, but a HTPC is much more compelling. I can't speak for the absolute video quality differences between the oppo and a HTPC as I have not seen an oppo (is that really a name?) but it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison.

The hardware software combination is a decent video card from ATI or nVidia (who would have spent many times the Farouja R&D for their graphics hardware - see my point above about market volume), a dual core CPU to have the power to do complex video processing, Zoomplayer that allows filters to be inserted into the Windows DirectX video processing chain, FFDSHOW video processor running specially developed avisynth filters to remove noise, apply sharpening and intelligent upscaling. With this software there are many combinations that can be setup to optimise the video processing to suit the source. Does your oppo allow you to tune the processing & upscaling process, or does your mega video processing chip only do a one size fits all approach?

You are correct that you need to be a tweaker to get the most out a HTPC, and its not ready for the mass market except for Microsoft's Media Center version of Windows.

Regards,
Dean

Hello,

Does anyone happen to have either:

1. Discrete IR codes for the Canon SX50 inputs.

or

2. A good reliable "click path" (with the remote) to get to a distinct input.

I'm using all the inputs on my Canon and need to reliably switch between the DVI, RGB2 and component (Pronto macros). The switch to DVI is simple, but the switch between RGB2 and component is the problem. These modes are just a toggle, so I have no real way of knowing what state the projector is in before I send a toggle signal...

Complicating this is that it starts up in the last mode used (again, an unknown), and the fact that "auto" doesn't detect component correctly (have to push the source button again to keep things from being pleasantly green). The result is that I don't have a clean/reliable means of managing my inputs :(

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. If I'm missing something obvious, please tell me!

Thanks,
John

I don't know what possesses me to respond, but I doubt this is correct. My best friend does all of his animation with a PC. To my knowledge, all of his friends use a PC for animation. I am sure there are Mac users in the animation world, but nothing like 75%. In case your wondering, my friend did the cylon animation for BSG in a couple of episodes. Also, his sister in law did the DVD mastering for the Star Wars trilogy. I can ask again, but I don't believe THX used a Mac.

Ericglo

Macs are used for 2D stuff. A good example are the Star Trek console displays.

3D renderfarms for animation for folks like BSG, B5, etc moved from Amigas, SGI and Suns to Intel boxes a while ago. Pixar's renderfarm for example is now an assload of Xeons. Not an assload of G5s xServes.

Weta uses IBM blade servers (with Xeon blades) running Linux.

ILM uses Linux on Opterons.

That said, with the move to Intel, animators might start using Maya on OSX instead of Linux. Linux as a desktop still sucks ass.

Nigel

Icon,

With the Mac you have very limited choice and pay a priviledge for that limited choice.

Using a PC as a multimedia source gives you flexibility, variety, upgradeability and good bang for buck that you dont get with any other solution. Are you able to upgrade your oppo when the next wiz bang video chip comes out?

I'm sure the oppo is a great device and good value, but a HTPC is much more compelling. I can't speak for the absolute video quality differences between the oppo and a HTPC as I have not seen an oppo (is that really a name?) but it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison.

You are correct that you need to be a tweaker to get the most out a HTPC, and its not ready for the mass market except for Microsoft's Media Center version of Windows.

Regards,
Dean


You guys don't get the bigger "picture." Your answers demonstrate that you are true to the core PC fanatics. I know because I once ran my business on several PC's running SCO Unix. I know exactly what you mean when you say you have to tweak it and tweak it and keep on tweaking it. At first doing that was even fun because I came from a closed boxed mini-computer world where my hands were tied. With a PC running Unix I could make it practically do anything. I could tie it to any device, printer or terminal. With the mini I could only use the supplier's devices. So for a while I loved the freedom and CONTROL the PC/Unix combo gave me. DOS was and still is a joke, BTW.

Anyway the Mac came out and I saw right away that this was real computing and the PC was meant for hackers. When the Mac II came out with slots they used NUBUS and it was super great. No more messing with IRQ's and memory assignments and so on. Any card popped into NUBUS automatically and ran. There were NO JUMPERS on NUBUS cards. I then saw the light fifteen years ago that many of you have not seen yet.

Sure it WAS fun to mess with all the gadgets, settings and stuff but when it comes down to it, we all want results. I don't want to have to play with hundreds of filters for minutes or hours to see which combination makes a movie look good before I sit down to watch it. Like the Mac's keep it simple scheme, I want to watch a DVD and see it look great without having to mess around with a PC.

You guys think your PC's are cheaper than Macs but they are not! Even Intel in an in-house study found they needed a full time support person for every thirty-five PC's but for their Macs (I assume in their advertising group) then needed a support person for every 200 plus Macs. You guys are smart enough to realize that this means that Macs do what they are supposed to do with out much maintenance or consulting costs. We Mac folks don’t care about the hundreds of programs you have on PC's that we don’t. We still have thousands and they just run and run and run with very, very rare crashes since Mac OS X, is based on the worlds best operating system and that is, as you should know, UNIX! Windoz is and always will be a wanna be great but it ain't. The Mac with a great interface on top of UNIX is unquestionably the finest OS available on this planet today and for years to come. If Macs cost a bit more (and they really don't if you factor in all that comes with even the most basic model), you are getting a lot more solid computer that does it job by making its users productive and that is the name of the computing game.

As to viruses and spyware, all of you could send me ten thousand e-mails loaded with the worse of your PC' gremlins and my Macs would not even hiccup. I'd love to have a tiny fraction of a percent of all the consultant fees spent by all of you and folks in industry trying (and failing) to keep those things out of their PC's.

So in true Mac form and from a prior career where I had to play tweaker with my PC's, I have learned to push back from that table and simply put a DVD into my Oppo and enjoy the show and I run my applications on my Mac and they do what they are supposed to do without any optimizing or running Norton Utils or spy & virus checker,etc. Being a Mac person is learning to get results in the best, fastest and simplest way possible and that is what you guys and the ill-advised rest of the PC using world have not figured out yet. Any PC consultant worth his salt would tell you the same if you could provoke him into being honest but then again why should he when he has thousands of suckers out there willing to pay his high consulting fees to keep their PC's running. The Mac will never win the market share battle due to the vested self-interest in the millions of folks that make their livings on the inherent and ongoing issues of the Windoz platform.

And that is why PC stnads for "Piece of Cr.."

Icon Master

P.S. Dean – Spring for the $200 bucks, buy an Oppo and do that side-by-side you suggested. You can even return the Oppo in 30 days and get full credit if you aren’t happy with that huge investment. I’d love to hear your comments and then sell you a Mac when you ditch your PC. There are still plenty of brainwashed suckers out their who will buy it. :)

Jeezzz...

Sounds like a chill pill is in order here.

I have 3 systems each with an HTPC, for over 3 years now. I have ZERO issues with any of them utilising MYHD cards for recording on one and playing on two others.

If someone wants to do upgrades they can do it. If not, they will work without a hitch unless you have OTHERS play with your toys. With the Oppo theres "upgrades" as well, firmware upgrades. Yes I have one of those too. Works decently but it has glitches of its own. Read the Oppo Thread.

Larry

You guys don't get the bigger "picture." Your answers demonstrate that you are true to the core PC fanatics. I know because I once ran my business on several PC's running SCO Unix. I know exactly what you mean when you say you have to tweak it and tweak it and keep on tweaking it. At first doing that was even fun because I came from a closed boxed mini-computer world where my hands were tied. With a PC running Unix I could make it practically do anything. I could tie it to any device, printer or terminal. With the mini I could only use the supplier's devices. So for a while I loved the freedom and CONTROL the PC/Unix combo gave me. DOS was and still is a joke, BTW.

Anyway the Mac came out and I saw right away that this was real computing and the PC was meant for hackers. When the Mac II came out with slots they used NUBUS and it was super great. No more messing with IRQ's and memory assignments and so on. Any card popped into NUBUS automatically and ran. There were NO JUMPERS on NUBUS cards. I then saw the light fifteen years ago that many of you have not seen yet.

Sure it WAS fun to mess with all the gadgets, settings and stuff but when it comes down to it, we all want results. I don't want to have to play with hundreds of filters for minutes or hours to see which combination makes a movie look good before I sit down to watch it. Like the Mac's keep it simple scheme, I want to watch a DVD and see it look great without having to mess around with a PC.

You guys think your PC's are cheaper than Macs but they are not! Even Intel in an in-house study found they needed a full time support person for every thirty-five PC's but for their Macs (I assume in their advertising group) then needed a support person for every 200 plus Macs. You guys are smart enough to realize that this means that Macs do what they are supposed to do with out much maintenance or consulting costs. We Mac folks don’t care about the hundreds of programs you have on PC's that we don’t. We still have thousands and they just run and run and run with very, very rare crashes since Mac OS X, is based on the worlds best operating system and that is, as you should know, UNIX! Windoz is and always will be a wanna be great but it ain't. The Mac with a great interface on top of UNIX is unquestionably the finest OS available on this planet today and for years to come. If Macs cost a bit more (and they really don't if you factor in all that comes with even the most basic model), you are getting a lot more solid computer that does it job by making its users productive and that is the name of the computing game.

As to viruses and spyware, all of you could send me ten thousand e-mails loaded with the worse of your PC' gremlins and my Macs would not even hiccup. I'd love to have a tiny fraction of a percent of all the consultant fees spent by all of you and folks in industry trying (and failing) to keep those things out of their PC's.

So in true Mac form and from a prior career where I had to play tweaker with my PC's, I have learned to push back from that table and simply put a DVD into my Oppo and enjoy the show and I run my applications on my Mac and they do what they are supposed to do without any optimizing or running Norton Utils or spy & virus checker,etc. Being a Mac person is learning to get results in the best, fastest and simplest way possible and that is what you guys and the ill-advised rest of the PC using world have not figured out yet. Any PC consultant worth his salt would tell you the same if you could provoke him into being honest but then again why should he when he has thousands of suckers out there willing to pay his high consulting fees to keep their PC's running. The Mac will never win the market share battle due to the vested self-interest in the millions of folks that make their livings on the inherent and ongoing issues of the Windoz platform.

And that is why PC stnads for "Piece of Cr.."

Icon Master

P.S. Dean – Spring for the $200 bucks, buy an Oppo and do that side-by-side you suggested. You can even return the Oppo in 30 days and get full credit if you aren’t happy with that huge investment. I’d love to hear your comments and then sell you a Mac when you ditch your PC. There are still plenty of brainwashed suckers out their who will buy it. :)
"Blinkered".

Thanks Videohot!

Glad to hear from another someone who has a PC to watch video from, and who also one of those poop er,, oppo things to compare. Don't get me wrong they must be good to some degree, but reading reviews and opinions from others who has or had them, I now get an unbiased viewpoint of them. Anything from junky remotes, flimsy trays, sound going in and out of sync, needing a firmware upgrade (do I hear 'tweak tweak'?).

"You can even return the Oppo in 30 days and get full credit if you aren’t happy with that huge investment." But they still had to pay their own shipping!

I do give it credit for being multi-regional, good for my higher res region 4 DVDs. Apparently, it takes more to get the poop, er oppo (sorry, I just love that!) 'tweaked' into being multi-regional than it did my PC!

Also, I should clarify, when I tweak my PC, it's only been to adjust the brightness, contrast, color, hue, screen aspect ratio and things like that, which would only be done on a Mac as well (and even on the SX50). Otherwise, I've gone years on all my PCs with virtually no trouble. I've been with PCs since DOS 3. They'll run great with just a little 'know-how'! I've had Macs too, but you can do more with PCs.

Comparing my PC's HD-video, photos, web-pages and things like powerpoint demos, and then the DVD video, the quality is excellent. My PC is squeezing the very best that can be gotten out of, and into the video. Everybody's jaws drop when they see all the natural colored warts, zits, pores and everything else already too clear from the PC. It would be extremely hard to improve the video, maybe even impossible.

It's a waste to get a poop; oppo (It's the SpellChecker!) at this time anyway since either HD-DVD/BluRay is just around the corner. Even then, I'll just custom make a new PC!

Icon,
I read your post to my friend and in some areas he agrees. A lot of the editing is done with Macs, because they have been brainwashed. He is not sure if THX used a Mac or not. Of course, I love his wifes statement when her Mac died. "Mac owners just take it to get serviced when it breaks." This may explain why Mac owners never complain about set up and maintaince. She did ask him to fix it for which he promptly did over the period of a day.

Nigel,
My friend said your post was dead on as well. In the 3-D world, there are no Macs. They are only seen in the 2-D art department. The other 99% is PC.

Ericglo

Icon,
I read your post to my friend and in some areas he agrees. A lot of the editing is done with Macs, because they have been brainwashed.

Nigel,
My friend said your post was dead on as well. In the 3-D world, there are no Macs. They are only seen in the 2-D art department. The other 99% is PC.

Ericglo

Mac folks want results. Creative folks by virtue of their temperamental artistic natures have zero tolerance for computer problems. They want to get results and don't have the patience (rightfully so) to mess with their computers. They just want to create. The folks on this BBS including myself tend to have a "tweaking" nature and the PC lends itself to that. I do not deny that however I learned that I don't have the time and patience to play Mister Tweaker any longer. I too have become more results oriented.

If you want to put down the Oppo because having a flimsy little DVD player that is plug and go with excellent results offends your innate need to tweak - so be it. Go tweak away on your PC all day and night. Being of the "older fart" variety, I don't have the time to waste doing that. I'm more into "smelling the roses" rather than having to analyze what makes a rose work before i smell and enjoy it.

On the 2-D versus 3-D thing in Hollywood, I cannot say. Here in Louisiana, New Orleans is fast becoming Hollywood South due to incentives given to the film industry by our state government. Every movie company I have worked with here and even over in Disney Florida is loaded with Macintoshes. My sister was in the industry, lived in Hollywood and there too Macs dominate the industry. They are the choice of creative professionals whether it is film, photography or print media. And it is the PC folks who are the "brainwahsd" crowd not the Mac community. Why? Pure and simple, the PC is a inferior, years behind "cheap" (to use your own words) inferior copy of the Mac. Bill Gates never had an orignal idea in hie life. Everything Microsoft is stolen. He has to watch the Mac move forward and then he copies it typically in a lesser fashion. Without Mac there would have been no USB, no Firewire, no graphical interface, and possinly not even a PC since Apple was the company that came up with the first computer marketed to the individual. The whole computer industry watches Apple and then follows behind including Windoz and Uncle Bill.

Some of you seem hung up on the 3-D issue as a proof of PC superiority. I cannot recall seeing a movie screen that is 3-D. :) The ultimate image that ends up on the screen, while it may have a little or a lot of 3-D rendered scenes, is still in two dimensions as in 2-D and FInal Cut Pro on the Mac only (which has been HD capable for years now) is quite likely the program that was used to make the rough and final edits even on to the final film prints using its EDL (Edit Decison List). So who gets the final word, err, deed here - Macintosh!!!

So try to feel smug with your antiquated PC toys boyz but you cannot deny that you really do spend too much time tweaking and not enough enjoying.

Icon Master

"you cannot deny that you really do spend too much time tweaking and not enough enjoying."

Many of us here have already proved we can rightfully deny tweaking time, we proved we have excellent DVD video. But as they say "Attitudes are deaf".

I've returned or thrown out many things that make problems but I have PCs because they run great. I put them together myself (in practically no time at all) so they do what I want and they do it! I spend more time "tweaking" my car, even though it runs great! I spend more time replacing burned out lightbulbs in my house than I do "tweaking" all 6 of my PCs together!

Thanks again deandob, videohot and all the others who, like me, enjoy their PCs and SX50s together and worry-free!

A half decent graphics card will outperform many DVD players costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars more, so I doubt the Oppo will be in quite the same class, as good as it is.

The scaling/deinterlacing and mpg deblocking performance from a half decent Radeon or nVidea graphics card is exceptional, and the first machine that I saw come close was a Pioneer 868 via HDMI with 720 output. How does the Oppo compare to that?

I know some high end dealers who use HTPC almost exclusively to demo HD as well as SD and ripped DVD source material, as it gave the best image quality to show off the projectors.

Admited the platform may not be the best, but the video quality certainly is. It can be as easy installing PowerDVD or WinDVD and then play your content with very little tweaking other than setting brightness and contrast. You can tweak as much or as little as you like, it's up to you, but if you can improve your image quality, why not?

Gary.

My only basis for video quality comparison is an old Xbox and my HTPC (tweaked with sharpening filters etc.) and the difference is not small. On a larger screen you need all the quality you can get.

Has anyone had the Canon SX50 professionally calibrated (eg. ISF) and noticed a difference? Apart from adjusting contrast & brightness, when I run the standard video tests the SX50 looks to be to be pretty much spot on. Colors also look much better to a number of other projectors I demoed before I purchased the SX50.

Is this because the SX50 is designed for displaying photographs as accurately as possible (compared to more general business or home projectors) and this also makes it an accurate video projector?

Regards,
Dean

A question for all the sx50 owners.

When you have sent your unit in for the dust blob fix or any other issues, has anyone ever asked for them to fix the video tearing at 1400 x 1050 at 60.02 hz?

Snorf

PS: If anyone does not have video tearing at this resolution can you please post your configuration etc.

Snorf,

I've asked three times without action or acknowledgement. I've also been over it with a fine tooth comb on three different units including one manufactured in Nov. '05 and they all tear near 60Hz at native and 480P. (includes 60.02 etc.)

50Hz is perfect so if you have PAL discs/players then you're good to go. Also 1080P/60 is almost perfect and 720P/60 is perfect for no tearing.

One thing about LCOS is that it is truly progressive. That is the picture is fully rendered until updated, so refresh rates faster than the material are of no benefit.

Ken

Ken,

So you feed a signal at 1080p/60 or 720p/60?

Best Regards,
Doug

Many of us here have already proved we can rightfully deny tweaking time, we proved we have excellent DVD video. But as they say "Attitudes are deaf".

I've returned or thrown out many things that make problems but I have PCs because they run great.

I spend more time "tweaking" my car, even though it runs great! I spend more time replacing burned out lightbulbs in my house than I do "tweaking" all 6 of my PCs together!


Boy-oh-boy - are there some tall fish story tellers here! Those 6 built yourself PC's must not be on the Internet. I was just at a buddies house yesterday and after a couple of hours on the internet he had to run some spy-virus/pc checker and it removed about six things and I am wondering about the new "things" that it may have missed...

I cannot recall any light bulbls needing to be spyware & virus checked unless you work at the NSA or CIA building.

And my Macs simply continue to run w/o crashing and w/o the need to do any of that spy/virus checking stuff. In fact I am certain that my Macs are way more trouble free than your proverbial lightbulbs.

So who amongst this PC lovin', tweaking obviously required crowd has had the courage to put an Oppo DVD player against their PC? It appears no one so what does that say for you guys? Talk is cheap but not a one of you can deal with the facing the fact that your systems are obsolete from a DVD playing perspective. It is tough to throw that old stuff out when you get attached to it.

And guys you forget I am a Mac computer consultant and you are a very confused bunch. You may have gold plated video cards that are liquid nitrogen cooled and your software may have some sharpening filters that do cool things but we have had those things for years. That ain't the same as a Farouji chip that incorporates millions of dollars of development time that is focused on doing very specific things that make video ka-ka look good. I'll never forget the first time I saw one of their old line doublers in action. It was at a trade show here in New Orleans about ten years back, They were feeding a Barco projector a regular VHS tape version of Raiders of "Temple of Doom" and the image looked like film. Everyone in my group of convention go'er was stunned by how great a job this "line doubler" (back then they were not called scalers) was doing. I think it was $25K or more but I had the bucks I would have bought that system on the spot.

I know of no video card or software algorithms that can do the multiple simultaneous calculations that are done by the chips in the Oppo and now all this can be had and then some for $200! It is frick'in incredible and you guys want to hang on to your old outdated built-at-home PC's because you like to "fiddle" like Nero. How quaint.

Icon Master

Icon,

You should do a little more research on the scaling properties of a PC with the right software. For a start there is a thread in this forum about how TheaterTek (a software DVD player) bests a good DVD player, and no tweaking required. But I will agree with you that to get the best out of a PC you need to tweak - but tweaking is not a sin.

Anyway, all this is talk (I think Stateside you call it blah-blah-blah). Time for some action, to do an apples for apples comparison of an Oppu and a PC with a 6600GT (or equivalent ATI) with ffdshow (say running avisynth limitedsharpen). However it wont be me as I dont have an Oppu and dont intend to buy one either. And to try to keep on topic, compare it with a SX50 as the projector!

Regards,
Dean

Ken,

So you feed a signal at 1080p/60 or 720p/60?

Best Regards,
Doug

Hi Doug,

Actually, I'm using 1080i/60 for 16:9 material when not using my anamorphic lens, and 1080p/60 for 4:3 material or when using my anamorphic lens plus 16:9 material.

Working very well!

Ken

"Those 6 built yourself PC's must not be on the Internet"

At least 'Icon Master' admits PCs might still run good if they're not on the internet!
Out of my 6 PCs three of them are laptops. Only one of those I've never had on the internet simply because there is never a need to. The PC that I have my SX50 connected to rarely is used on the internet since we generally use it mostly for watching DVDs, TV, transferring our home movies to DVD and playing games. Once in a while upgrades are needed.



"I was just at a buddies house yesterday and after a couple of hours on the internet he had to run some spy-virus/pc checker and it removed about six things and I am wondering about the new "things" that it may have missed..."

We never open any e-mail except from people we know or companies we deal with, (Deep Discount DVD, Amazon and a few others). All my nearly 20 years of working with computers, I have NEVER had spy-virus/pc checkers of any sort on my home PCs, and I have NEVER had problems with spyware or viruses (viri?). Our local internet provider has as part of it's arrangement spy-virus/pc checkers that scans e-mail even before we get it, which I'm sure helps.



"So who amongst this PC lovin', tweaking obviously required crowd has had the courage to put an Oppo DVD player against their PC? It appears no one so what does that say for you guys?"

Didn't you notice "Videohot"s post? What's that say for you, guy? Jeeesh!
I choose not to waste the money or time. Can you play games on the 'oppo' , or record home videos and TV? Ironically, it needs 'tweaking'. You must download an upgrade on a "PC!", burn the info on a dics and then run the disc in the pooh pooh. Everyone who stops in and sees our movies says we have the best picture ever, I agree.


"there are some tall fish story tellers here"

No just the facts! You choose not to believe them, that's your choice and your loss. If everyone here's wrong and your right, that's fine. We don't have problems with our PCs and you do, it's our choice to choose who has the problem!

Doesn't anybody watch their digital camera pictures on the SX50? It sure beats watching a slide show on a 19" LCD monitor. It is like being there in the photograph! Pretty nice.

I don't yet have a digital camera, but just a few years ago I copied all my fathers slides from the 1950s and 60s, including us when we were kids. I have a polaroid slide scanner and I purposely saved them at extremely high resolutions as ".BMP" files. I only fit about 35 pictures on one CD disc. We watched them through the SX50 and they were just as clear as watching the original slides! The images stand about 6' tall and, yes, you feel like you've traveled through time! Interestingly, I've also resized them all to lower quality so they all fit on one disc as ".JPG" files and though they are OK, you do see square pixels if you look closely. SX50; how great thou art!

Doesn't anybody watch their digital camera pictures on the SX50? It sure beats watching a slide show on a 19" LCD monitor. It is like being there in the photograph! Pretty nice.

I do. Actually, I use my SX50 to show my photos to others in my photography studio. I use a 135" diagonal rear-projection screen and the images are stunning. Even with a fair amount of ambient light, many people comment that the images are as bright and sharp as they are on a computer screen.

The screen itself is nothing fancy. I just purchased the raw material (Optitrans) and framed it out into an opening in the wall. The SX50 is in an enclosed room and sits approximately 14' behind the screen, attached to my Mac.

-Kirk

On the 2-D versus 3-D thing in Hollywood, I cannot say. Here in Louisiana, New Orleans is fast becoming Hollywood South due to incentives given to the film industry by our state government. Every movie company I have worked with here and even over in Disney Florida is loaded with Macintoshes. My sister was in the industry, lived in Hollywood and there too Macs dominate the industry. They are the choice of creative professionals whether it is film, photography or print media.


The choice of creative professionals has always been based on the availability of software and not the hardware. The best of the 3-D development environments exist on all the major platforms so the differentiator is price.

The renderfarms are all about price.


And it is the PC folks who are the "brainwahsd" crowd not the Mac community. Why? Pure and simple, the PC is a inferior, years behind "cheap" (to use your own words) inferior copy of the Mac. Bill Gates never had an orignal idea in hie life. Everything Microsoft is stolen. He has to watch the Mac move forward and then he copies it typically in a lesser fashion. Without Mac there would have been no USB, no Firewire, no graphical interface, and possinly not even a PC since Apple was the company that came up with the first computer marketed to the individual. The whole computer industry watches Apple and then follows behind including Windoz and Uncle Bill.


95% market share says Uncle Bill had the better strategy than Uncle Steve. You're one of those mac zealots that make the rest of us look bad aren't you?


Some of you seem hung up on the 3-D issue as a proof of PC superiority. I cannot recall seeing a movie screen that is 3-D. :) The ultimate image that ends up on the screen, while it may have a little or a lot of 3-D rendered scenes, is still in two dimensions as in 2-D and FInal Cut Pro on the Mac only (which has been HD capable for years now) is quite likely the program that was used to make the rough and final edits even on to the final film prints using its EDL (Edit Decison List). So who gets the final word, err, deed here - Macintosh!!!


Eh...yes, they cut cold mountain on FCP and maybe a dozen other movies on FCP. Avid is what most pro's use.

NIgel

> NIgel
> 95% market share says Uncle Bill had the better strategy
> than Uncle Steve. You're one of those mac zealots that
> make the rest of us look bad aren't you?

No, the fact that you base your computer choice decision on what 95% of the people do makes you look bad. Ninety-Five percent of the people also own Chevies, Fords, Chryslers and Toyotas and about 3% own Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. I assume you might be smart enough to figure out which group you belong in.

> Eh...yes, they cut cold mountain on FCP and maybe a dozen
> other movies on FCP. Avid is what most pro's use.

NIgel[ - Keep dreaming on "kiddo." Avid is also used and even there the folks prefer it on Macs and not PC's. Avid tried to kill their Mac version several times and they nearly lost their business. But Final Cut Pro based Mac systems are way less costly than Avid and as you said, it is about software availability and price. I assume you can figure that out too? Macs rule the movie and TV show production business at every level. You keep harping on 3-D but that is a small part of the industry.

Just had a PC consultant over for my SuperBowl party. SX50 was great even though the game was boring. Anyway, he was telling me about a new virus/worm on the PC that rewrites the Bios chip and renders the PC useless. Sounds like fun "kids."

Enjoy your tweaking, de-worming and virus scanning. Better burn a few extra bios chips too while you are at it. :)

Icon Master

> Morritec
> At least 'Icon Master' admits PCs might still run good

Yes - ther are good for door stops and wasting folks time and keeping them from being productive. They are especially good at that.


> Only one of those I've never had on the internet simply
> because there is never a need to....
> We never open any e-mail except from people we know
> or companies we deal with...

That says it all. None of my Macs are afraid of the internet. I rest my "case."

> Didn't you notice "Videohot"s post? What's that say for you, guy?

Yes I did notice. He did not say much except that Oppo is providing free firmware updates that continue to improve the product. Go read the Oppo forum yourself and you will see that the Oppo firm is getting high "marks" from members here as being the most responsive supplier to our HT industry. How many PC manufacturers are in direct contact with you and help make your hunk of junk PC a better HT unit? ZIPPO!!!!

> I choose not to waste the money or time.

Guy, you keep getting it arse backwards. You do choose to waste time tweaking your PC, etc. It is us Mac users who don't put up with the B.S. that you P.C. guys keep turning the cheek on. I would have run out ofcheeks a long time ago.

> Can you play games on the 'Oppo' , or record home videos and TV?

Now why would I want to do a stupid thing like playing games on a DVD player? I have Macintosh computers a plenty if I even had the time to play games. My Oppo just sends a great upscaled DVD image to my SX50 and I enjoy the heck out of watching near HiDef movies on my SX50.

> Ironically, it needs 'tweaking'. You must download an upgrade on
> a "PC!", burn the info on a disc and then run the disc in the pooh pooh.

Not quite correct. You are so prone to exaggeration especially when you are taiking about things you know nothing about and obviously that is plenty.

Oppo had about three of four FREE firmware updates last year. You can download them in a few minutes to a Mac or a PC, burn a CD and put it into the Oppo. You push a button or two and bling, blang you have and even better Oppo DVD player.

Oppo also came out with an improved remote control that also required a firmware update. They shipped it no charge to anyone who wanted it although they had a nominal freight and handling fee. BTW, how do you do you remote control of your PC's when playing DVDs? Is it called sneaker remote where you have to put on your "sneakers" and walk across the room to stop/adjust the software, etc?

> Everyone who stops in and sees our movies says we have the best
> picture ever, I agree.

Better than what?
A one sided "argument" with no supportive comparison to Oppo makes you look...

>> Icon
>> "there are some tall fish story tellers here"
> Morritec
> No just the facts!.. We don't have problems with our PCs and you
> do, it's our choice to choose who has the problems!

Yes - you do lie and exaggerate like a fish story teller and you do choose to have problems. I have no need to further argue that point. See my prior post above for more proof of this.

Icon Master

Dear God, do we really have to wade through all this adolescent b******* every time we look at the SX50 thread? Isn't there a rule about not people not being allowed to overstep the mark regarding things they sell? Icon don't you sell Macs and SX50s?

This is no longer about the SX50. If anyone would prefer to discuss the PC versus Mac versus Oppo, please post another thread in a more appropriate place.

Best Regards,
Doug

> NIgel
> 95% market share says Uncle Bill had the better strategy
> than Uncle Steve. You're one of those mac zealots that
> make the rest of us look bad aren't you?

No, the fact that you base your computer choice decision on what 95% of the people do makes you look bad. Ninety-Five percent of the people also own Chevies, Fords, Chryslers and Toyotas and about 3% own Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. I assume you might be smart enough to figure out which group you belong in.


Yes, I belong in a group called "computer professional" and you belong in the group known as "computer sales guy". I write Mac software for "fun" (well, okay...I tinker with writing Mac software for fun...I have pieces of a game built on Torque). I write .Net and Java for a salary. These run predominantly on Intel machines (Windows and Linux).

What makes you think I don't have a Mac? Poor reading comprehension? Low IQ? Zealotry?


> Eh...yes, they cut cold mountain on FCP and maybe a dozen
> other movies on FCP. Avid is what most pro's use.

Nigel - Keep dreaming on "kiddo." Avid is also used and even there the folks prefer it on Macs and not PC's.


It's not "Avid is also used" but more FCP is "sometimes used". Avid is still the most commonly used solution. FCP market share is growing and it seems to be popular from the reports at NAB. Yes, folks prefer Avid on the Mac over the PC but Avid had issues with much of their software last year on the Mac and at Xpress Pro HD Mac version was delayed after the PC version. Avid's hardware acceleration is both an advantage as well as a pricey anchor to the product line. Using it allows you to do a lot more real time effects (vs just FCP on a G5). Avid also has the advantage that much of their product line is compatible with the high end suites so you can use say Xpress Pro HD to do a rough cut and be able to shift to the $700/hr high end suite for finishing.

With the switch to Intel and the likelyhood of a Universal binary from Avid in a timely fashion somewhat unlikely given the relationship of the two companies I'd say there's going to be folks switching to the Windows platform if they need to rev their Avid suite this year. I haven't bothered to look (not being an Avid user)but I'm going to guess that Avid will do the same thing as Adobe...release a universal the next time they rev their software.

Its a shame that you like the SX50, Apple and the Oppo. You're a remarkably poor proponent for all three.

Nigel

PS yea and verily Torque 1.4 does support Universal binaries.

Trying to reason with Icon Master is, like they say, "Kicking a dead dog". Can't say anything sensible to him anyway. I'm no liar, and he's wrong on that and so many things.

He can't comprehend what he's reading!
> Only one of those I've never had on the internet simply
> because there is never a need to....
That means I have 5 PCs that are on the internet!


Tries to tell me I have a 'Sneaker' remote control! How presumptuously stupid..again! How would he know? It's a battery powered remote, like any other remote control, (though never had to be replaced, I didn't even have to pay shipping). Just press the 'DVD' button, skips the 'FBI warning', the 'menu' and goes right to the movie!

The day I first got my SX50, I projected the image on a 7' glass beaded movie screen. Since then I replaced it with a screen, originally from a genuine movie theatre, that I trimmed down to nearly 13' (it was originally a 20' screen - wouldn't even fit in my living room, it was either trim the screen down or tear the house-wall down to make a larger living room, it was a tough decision!). The screen is not glass beaded and I now have a larger image that is still very bright but, naturally, not quite as bright as the smaller (light less dispersed), glass beaded (more reflective material) screen.

After all that, I couldn't help but wonder... has anybody yet had their SX50 projector long enough to notice if/when the bulb does actually start going dimmer? After running it for how many hours does the image begin to appear to grow darker? I used my projector quite heavily for about four months now (it was only the first week or so on the glass-beaded screen) and I don't notice any dimming yet, I'm sure it's still way too soon (I use the full-brightness mode). Has anyone else here gotten to that point yet? How long have you been using it, and the bulb is still going strong?

Thanks!

Yes, I belong in a group called "computer professional" and you belong in the group known as "computer sales guy". I write Mac software for "fun" (well, okay...I tinker with writing Mac software for fun...I have pieces of a game built on Torque). I write .Net and Java for a salary. These run predominantly on Intel machines (Windows and Linux).

Its a shame that you like the SX50, Apple and the Oppo. You're a remarkably poor proponent for all three.


At least you came out of the closet and admitted your utter bias toward PC's since you make your living on them. I find all of the PC folks here like yourself in denial. I have yet to see one admit to the severe security issues you face every moment you have a PC on the internet. I do have a bad habit in that I cannot accept krap or second best when it comes to computers and the PC is and will be second best for years to come. As to Universal Binaries selling more PC's and costing Macs market share - you again show your ignorance. Those Universal binaries will be complied separately for the PC and another for the Mac. The Mac universal binary will run on the pre-intel Macs and Intel based Macs but not on a PC running Windoz. The Intel Mac OS which I am using now is still as secure from viruses, spyware and worms as Pre-Intel Macs were. it is the PC Windoz OS and not the Intel chip that causes the security issues. The G5 based PowerMacs are still far superior to any PC since it and the Mac OS is full 64 bit. We have taken a step backward to 32 bit with the current dual core Intel Macs. The G5 Towers I hope will be replaced by units with the forthcoming dual(?) 64 bit Intel chips or again we Mac ffolks will be taking steps back to where you PC guys are stuck today and that does suck.

So come out and admit the current inferiority and vulnerability of the PC compared to the Mac Nigel... if you dare.

It is worthless to pursue this subject with this PC biased bunch just as I am Mac biased but I am not the one wasting my time eradicating virusess as a constant duty in my daily regimen. I do have to admit I loved the fact that one of you indirectly admitted the PC's vulnerability by keeping most of their home-builds off the internet. Thanks for that. :)

As to being an SX50 proponent - yep I accept that and since they have killed the dust blob issue I will now even start selling them to my clients here in Louisiana. As I said, I cannot sell inferior products (like PC's) and while the SX50 is a superior unique product I could not sell it while it was flawed. That has changed and I have one on order now for one of the top showcase high profile clients in the New Orleans area. They will be using it in their client presentation room. I am not after the business of any one on this web site. You folks are not my target market.

While this is the acknowledged SX50 thread, I believe i was either the first or second person to bring the SX50 to the attention of the members of this web site. I have at times deliberately challenged the thinking of folks here because the SX50 is 4:3 and was immediately poo-pooed. Plus there was(?) a strong JVC/LCOS group here that had a tough time accepting that cheap little SX50 was outperforming their expensive, huge, dim JVC/LCOS projectors. There still is a lot of this type of thinking going on here and I have had to make an aggressive and many times obnoxious stand for the SX50 since I see it and Canon's potential. I will continue to do so since I do not see any other product line that matches the SX50's price performance in HT even if it is 4:3. Have I ruffled feathers here - ABSOLUTELY! - but I do not give a care since - guess what? This group now exists and consists of many SX50 owners and proponents. Before I made all the noise here there were none! I got the results I wanted. I kept the flicker of a flame alive by constantly pouring fuel on the fire and now we SX50 owners are a serious HT lot. It is still a shame that you guys could break from the pack and buy an SX50 and yet you guys cannot find it in yourselves to open those deep pockets and spend $200 so you can fully experience the SX50's capability in playing DVD's by tying it to an Oppo via a DVI connection. Regardless, I got what I wanted and am happy you guys finally figured out that even with 4:3, a Canon SX50/LCOS was and is the best buy in forward project HT today... but not tomorrow.

Yes Nigel I do an equally lousy job selling and servicing Macs as I do SX50's since I am the largest Mac VAR in Louisiana. So why do I waste my time promoting SX50's here so others can sell them to members here? I was concerned that the SX50 would not survive at all since six months ago it was a little known entity lost in the thousands of other projector choices out there. My market here is small, the product was flawed so I felt I had to get the word out here to give the product national/international exposure. I wanted Canon to see SX50 sales from wherever they came so they will improve the product and perhaps make other LCOS models. I have very much accomplished all the goals I intended.

Icon Master

At least you came out of the closet and admitted your utter bias toward PC's since you make your living on them. I find all of the PC folks here like yourself in denial. I have yet to see one admit to the severe security issues you face every moment you have a PC on the internet.


Actually, I'm technology agnostic. Its a job, not a religion. PC, Mac, Sun, IBM...whichever makes the most sense for the job at hand.

Does Windows have security issues? Yes. Not to the degree you make them out to be. I think that's all folks have been saying.


I do have a bad habit in that I cannot accept krap or second best when it comes to computers and the PC is and will be second best for years to come.


The market disagrees. From a technical perspective the answer is (as it usually is) "it depends".


As to Universal Binaries selling more PC's and costing Macs market share - you again show your ignorance. Those Universal binaries will be complied separately for the PC and another for the Mac. The Mac universal binary will run on the pre-intel Macs and Intel based Macs but not on a PC running Windoz. The Intel Mac OS which I am using now is still as secure from viruses, spyware and worms as Pre-Intel Macs were. it is the PC Windoz OS and not the Intel chip that causes the security issues.


What I said was it is unlikely that Avid will be releasing universal binaries any time sooner than their next software release. This is the same strategy as Adobe has with CS. For pros who need to buy new hardware today they have the following choices:

* Buy a G5 that everyone knows is a dead end product.
* Buy an intel based iMac and run via Rosetta until CS3 or the uni version of Avid (and isn't a pro box anyway).
* Buy an Opteron based Windows or Linux PC that will be faster than any intel offering until Woodcrest.

The 3rd option may or may not be that much worse than the first two options right now as Apple is in transition. There is pain associated with any of the choices and moving to Windows gives you more hardware options but you're going to have to replace all your software. Which you kinda have to do anyway with some of the more pricey packages to go universal anyway (like CS3 for example).

Option 1 might be best if your replacement cycle is every couple years anyway.


The G5 based PowerMacs are still far superior to any PC since it and the Mac OS is full 64 bit. We have taken a step backward to 32 bit with the current dual core Intel Macs. The G5 Towers I hope will be replaced by units with the forthcoming dual(?) 64 bit Intel chips or again we Mac ffolks will be taking steps back to where you PC guys are stuck today and that does suck.


I doubt we'll see intel based power macs until Woodcrest. And I think that there would be debate whether the G5 is better than the Opteron.

32bit isn't all that bad for most folks.


So come out and admit the current inferiority and vulnerability of the PC compared to the Mac Nigel... if you dare.


OSX is superior to Windows and Linux as a desktop operating system in my opinion. However, it isn't that much more secure than Windows or Linux. It is less secure than SE-Linux and OpenBSD. Windows is more prone to viruses, worms and trojans because it is less secure than unix variants and its a big big market and used by the average person (where most of the successful attacks occur).

However, a fully secured windows box is very secure. Not too good as a general purpose desktop machine but good enough to be a firewall.

If OSX had the same share, it would have the same level of attacks and issues. If you aren't running Virex and a firewall on your mac...eh. You're probably safe but its not all that wise either. Especially if the platforms gets more popular.

If you don't think that OSX has exploitable security problems you simply haven't bothered to keep up. There were several significant ones that were not fixed until 10.4.2 like the dsidentity bug. There was a significant malloc bug that allowed a hostile program to modify any file on the system (and thereby opening the door to any attack). This was fixed in an update last year. There was a big patch in November that fixed a good number of critical holes. Like the one where malicious web pages could install dashboard widgets...maybe they fixed that earlier. Eh.

The reason these security flaws (which have been OSX a while) haven't been exploited is that there are fewer attacks against OSX. If it had 85% of the desktop share OSX would look really bad too.


It is worthless to pursue this subject with this PC biased bunch just as I am Mac biased but I am not the one wasting my time eradicating virusess as a constant duty in my daily regimen. I do have to admit I loved the fact that one of you indirectly admitted the PC's vulnerability by keeping most of their home-builds off the internet. Thanks for that. :)


Funny...I have this thing called a virus checker...it does all that stuff for me. It even updates itself. I have no issues with my other home machine (running XP) on the internet. The ports are secure, I let windows update as often as it wants, the virus checker is up to date and there is a hardware firewall (that I worry about more than my PC really) built into the router.

Its about as much maintainence as my OSX box (a Quicksilver 2002)...i.e. very very little.

Oddly, I'm a registered mac developer but not a registered windows developer. I nearly purchased the transition box but decided not to. Missed an opportunity to get a nice iMac for "free" and it was a nice gesture on the part of Apple to do the swap.

So much for that "PC bias". Just not blinded by the RDF...nor am I a sales guy used to spewing BS.

Nigel

Will Canon be introducing a successor to the SX50 any time soon?

I got an sx-50 about a year ago, and have been reading this forum for several
months, but until now had nothing to add. I got a vp-30 a couple of weeks ago
and after some playing around with it and the sx-50 found that the default settings for line rate and frame rate (horizontal frequency and vertical frequency)
matched that of the sx-50 manual, and I observed no tearing on 480p, 720p, and
1080p on the vp-30 judder test with at least 5 trips of the bar back and forth. This was not the case with 1050p (1400x1050), even with the line rate and frame rate set to the manual values of 63.981khz and 60.02hz the bar would tear
on every second or third trip. Does anyone have the settings which will work for
1050p. Some indicated with a pc they got no tearing. Thanks

1400x1050P won't tear at 50Hz.

Ken

Has anyone tried 48Hz or 72Hz yet?

(at any resolution, using the iScan HD/HD+/VP30 or a similar scaler)

> So much for that "PC bias". Just not blinded by the RDF...nor am
> I a sales guy used to spewing BS.
> Nigel

Finally an honest, forthright mostly correct post about Macs, PCs, etc. Thank you Nigel!

The only points I found you off on is that you seem to have blind faith in your virus checker since it is automatic and checks for updates daily, hourly, etc. Of course we know that it is not the known viruses, worms, etc that we have to worry about on PCs, Macs, etc. What about the new ones that have not been caught yet? That is where you get the costly damage and that is what keep my PC consultant buddies driving new Mercedes and Beem'ers while I drive my 14 year old Lexus. :)

I don't doubt that the Mac OS built on top of Unix has its potential vulnerabilities but because its market share is so small, few hackers find it an interesting target. You don't get the big salary jobs at the viruses checking firms writing virus checkers if you only wrote a worm that attacked a few computers. You need to make a big splash to get noticed, prosecuted and then hired!

But the Mac OS X is more elegant, more refined and way more logical than Windoz and that is why folks who don't like to tweak and just want a solid performing (and good looking) computer that does what its is supposed to do without all the fuss and muss required of PC's running Windoz... that is why they buy Macs. The majority of folks that buy PC's do so because everyone else does it too but that doesn't make it the better platform and as you finally acknowledged, as most honest consultants will do - the Mac is superior.

If most folks are OK with 32 bit processing, then why is the PC world trying to get where the Mac has been with 64 bit for three years now?

Now that we are in agreement on the superiority of Macs and it is out in the open, lets move on to how this thing about Mac versus PC's got started. I insulted you PC guys for not giving the Oppo a try and I told you PC's suck compared to Macs. Now the cat is out of the bag. PC's do "suck" compared to Macs. We aren't stuck on this issue any longer. Thus, now it is time move to the second part of my "suggestion" It is time to try Oppo! Who amongst you serious PC types has the kahunas to do this? Still no takers? Why do you PC guys keep your head so buried in the sand? Moritec, how about you?

Icon Master

Hi,

I want to thank everyone who has posted their advice and informationon this thread. I particularly want to thank Dean, Icon, Art and Scot for their responses to my questions. Additional thanks to Icon for his recommendation of the Oppo DVD player.

I ended up using an 8' screen (folding 10' screens were very expensive and the roll up 10' screen wouldn't fit in my car, was much heavier, and would have been harder to set up in the limited time available).

I got everything working well for the weekend of Feb 3rd, 4th and 5th. I was very pleased with the quality of the Oppo and Canon combination. Quite a few people told me how much they enjoyed the videos. I told a friend that I thought the quality was very nice and this was his response via email:
"Very nice is an understatement, it made our program
this weekend something very wonderful."

Thanks Again!

Best Wishes,

Mitch

Well back to the AV part of this topic...PCs are superior to macs in one other important (to us) arena: HTPCs.

Until we get our new Mac mini with improved media capabilities we really cannot equal the level of performance you can get on the Windows platform. If you're going to accuse other folks about being closeminded on the Oppo you could at least take the time to check out the HTPC forum and see what results they can get.

For the record, I used to run a HTPC. I now live with a simpler but lesser upconverting DVD solution until I get we get a Mac media pc that just "works". I'd buy the oppo but I'm saving money for other toys. The intel mac mini/media being high on the list. Preferably with DVR capability built into front row. There are various reasons why some folks feel that we wont see DVR in front row but I would be highly dissapointed if it did not.

Nigel

PS My "faith" in my virus checker is equal to my "faith" in airbags in a collision. Its silly to buy a car without airbags today. Its silly not to run a virus checker. Nothing is 100%. I don't expect 100%.

Well back to the AV part of this topic...PCs are superior to macs in one other important (to us) arena: HTPCs.

Until we get our new Mac mini with improved media capabilities we really cannot equal the level of performance you can get on the Windows platform. If you're going to accuse other folks about being closeminded on the Oppo you could at least take the time to check out the HTPC forum and see what results they can get.

For the record, I used to run a HTPC. I now live with a simpler but lesser upconverting DVD solution until I get we get a Mac media pc that just "works". I'd buy the oppo but I'm saving money for other toys. .

Nigel -

Just had a chat with my Apple sales rep. I am a bit concerned about the future of the Mac Mini. I too think it could be great with the Intel chip set, a better video crd, better DVD burner (especially BlueRay which Apple has committed to), and the rigth software. Then it would be an almost must for a HT system. However what the Apple rep told me is that the warehouses are full of them. If they arenn't selling they could be discontinued and there may never be an Intel based Mac Mini. On the other hand if Jobs was as smart as we would like to think he is (but he isn't), then he would realize the Mac Mini's design missed its target market but could become an essential product if properly built. Guess we'll have to see if Jobs figures this out but I have seen him blow away good products because he simply didn't get it.

He screwed up the Cube because he left out a $2 fan (which had the bracket and power adapter already built-in) to save the money but the product overheated and the cases cracked. Another idiotic screwup by Jobs on what was a cool product for its time.

I asked in the HTPC forum a year or so back the following question, "Could one of these units improve the appearance of standard video such as football, basketball and the SiFi or other SD movie channels?" The answer I got was essentially garbage in, garbage out and that an HTPC unit could not significantly improve SD video. That is when I lost interest in that approach. Now if that has significantly changed, let me know. \

I do get 480p and even 720p out of my Direct TV receiver but basketball in SD receiver upconverted looks especially bad. HiDef is another world but SD sucks except on the big dish 4dtv receiver where some channels do look pretty good.

With the Oppo I do not need a 480 upconverting PC. It puts out a fabulous 720p upconversion via DVI for my SX50 and I am not seeing any of this tearing or whatever issues you PC guys have getting them to sync to the SX50. Again it seems you guys have more fun playing and tweaking than you do watching the movies otherwise by now you would have bought an Oppo and be done with it.

Nigel and the other stubborn hardheads here - you saw the prior post. The guy took my advice, kept it simple, bought an Oppo and impressed his buddies. Spend the big bucks and buy an Oppo. (And yes, as you all know by now, I am a stubborn, hard head too!)

Icon Master

Thanks for the info KL, it doesn't tear at 50hz. Does this solve the tearing problem at native, or would the picture be better if it didn't tear at 60.02. With a "good" hd signal from my cable box I get an excellent picture at all 3 hd res, but 720 may be the best. It looks like I am getting some pink blobs that go in and out of focus on a white screen, so the dust blobs must be affecting all of them. I've almost had it a year, so I quess I better quickly send it back before the warranty runs out. Thanks again
blkbox

blkbox,

Yeah, no tearing at native rez at 50Hz.
It would be far better for non PAL users if it wouldn't tear at 60Hz. The only source I have that will convert to 50Hz is my HTPC. My scaler won't do it.

Unfortunately 48Hz doesn't work and either does 24.

The warranty is 3 years, but I'd go ahead and send it in. I did and now I have no blobs.

Ken

My SX50 comes back on Monday from Canon after the dust blobs have been cleaned. I spoke to the tech about it and he says that my projector already had the dust blob fix and the latest firmware, which is interesting as I bought it back last May. He also said that even with the dustfix the projector is prone to dust and to keep it as dust free as possible (clean filters etc), and another dust clean would have to be at my expense (!). The optics are also fixed so that there is no chance of getting the panels misaligned because of the cleaning.

For those into DIY apparently its pretty hard to clean the projector by opening it up and cleaning it yourself, as there are lots of bits required to be taken out before you get to the optics.

Maybe a hushbox is an idea for the SX50 as you can pre-filter the air entering into the projector.

I'll report once I fire the projector up when I receive it back from Canon.

Regards,
Dean

I've been following this thread for a very long time and not buying a Realis SX-50 for even longer...

The dust blob issues and tearing problems are a large concern for me.

Are there any SX-50 owners here who have been free of dust blobs for long enough to claim that the problem is really solved, or at least greatly reduced?

deandob - you say they'll charge for the cleaning, have they told you how much it will cost? (Will it be cheaper and less frequent than, say, changing lightbulbs?)

Has anyone anywhere managed to get 60fps at native resolution without tearing? And can anyone tell me how noticably "wrong" 24fps and 60fps video is going to look when re-timed to 50hz?

Also, IconMaster, I would much enjoy a shouting match with you over many of your previous statements and attitudes. I do software development on Apple computers at work, and I feel I am well versed in the subject. Could you please pick an appropriate forum where we could spout ignorant rhetoric?

ManMower,

The cleaning charge is a policy of Canon Australia, it may be different for Canon in the US (a different subsidiary of Canon).

Best ignore the Apple rhetoric, it really is off topic.....

Regards,
Dean

My current projector (G20) is on it's last legs. I need at least 1080x1024, fairly bright and
good CR. (I'm projecting star fields) as well as watching TV.
My 120" diag. screen is about 20' away so my selection of projectors is somewhat limited.
I don't think the Ruby will do and other 1920x1080 won't be available in the next month
or so. So... the SX50 seems pretty interesting right now.

(1) Anyone know what the SX60 is? I noticed it as an entry in Canon's Distance Throw calculator.

(2) What's the difference between the SX50 Realis and the SX50 XEED?

(3) What's the life on the bulb? Does it dim like xenon bulbs?

(4) Is there software and documentation so I can calibrate?

Did anyone see the announcement of three new LCOS front projectors from Canon? They announced the REALiS SX6, REALiS SX60 and REALiS X600 projectors. The article is up on TWICE, but it requires registration so I won't post a direct link to the article here. Anyway, looks like they are not moving beyond 1400x1050 resolution in these new models, as some HT fans had hoped.

http://www.twice.com/

Edit: I started a new thread with a link to the announcement on the Canon site.

Here is a link to the new thread: New Canon front projectors (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=644367)

I just hope they fixed the dust problem the SX50 has. Mine supposedly is the updated, repaired model and in three months time the dust was there. I just called Canon in New Jersey, they'll clean the dust out, and that's all they'll do. What happens in another three months, and another three months after that? They want me to pay the shipping to get it there, though they do pay it coming back.
They say it would take about two weeks and in the mean time,we have nothing, not even a temporary replacement! Why couldn't Canon have had, at least, the lens screw out of the front so you could just wipe the other side of the lens that way? For those who asked, the dust problem is not solved, it ruins the picture, you'll be paying for cleanings the rest of your (its) life. I really don't think it's worth it, esp considering what you pay for the SX50.

Has anybody been brave enough to try cleaning it themselves?

What to do?

They replaced my entire optical block and I didn't get any dust in a month or two. Two other units without the "fix" got dust within one day in my carpeted environment.

My first dust free unit got replaced with another dust free unit first of January and its still dust free. It's way more than just a cleaning.

One thing is that the Canon has a 3yr. warranty with a loaner the first year. Have you had yours more than one year?

Anyway, what I would do is wait until the SX60 is available and then combine complaining about dust with complaining about HDCP and tearing and see if they'll swap your SX50 for a 60. It's worth a try.

Ken

Ken,

I got my SX50 on November 2, 2005. New Jersey Canon told me I wouldn't get a loaner, they would only clean it, I would have to pay shipping to the repair shop.
I spoke with some one named Paul. Should I call again and be more agressive?
Any other advice?


UPDATE>>>

I spoke to some one else at the New Jersey Canon, and now they will send a loaner out. The 'loaner' SX50 is presently out for a few more days. When it comes back they will send it to me but they need my credit card #. That's OK as long as they don't expect my credit line to be high enough to cover the cost of the loaner SX50 - it isn't! I told them how some one else got their entire optical block replaced and that's the fix I want. They said they will check it out. I just don't want to be sending the SX50 out every 3 or 4 months for a cleaning.


Thanks

Ray

Back to DVD players. Since no one in this group ever did a valid side-by-side comparison of the Oppo versus PC, here is a post from apparantly a dealer in a "Ruby" thread that has an open mind and has been experimenting;

I have been feeding my demo Ruby a mix of signals so far and here are my opinions. Feeding directly from an oopo via dvi the image is quite crisp and playback is very smooth. It has an ever so slight digital look to it, even with sharpness at 0 on the ruby. Feeding MOVI stand alone HTPC hybrid via VGA, a slightly more natuaral looking image allowing the ruby to push sharpness settings above 0 without any ringing issues. However, playback is not as smooth, camera pans can cause a some jerkiness to playback. Finally, feeding from a standard Panasonic player through a Lumagen HDP processor to the ruby via DVI, image quality is defintely not optimal. Very rough image, requiring a 0 sharpness on the ruby which results in soft images on top of artifacts. So, in my opinion the $200 oppo is the clear winner in my enviroment, particularly considering both the other 2 set ups are in the $2000 range. hope that helps
Bill

Stuttering pans is often a refresh mismatch - like playing PAL DVDs at 60hz. I don't have them on mine (unless it's a camera pan rate/FPS issue recorded at source).

Like I said before, dealers (such as Sim2) at shows often use HTPCs as the main source for there projectors in preference to expensive standalone DVD players (or the Oppo), and this is done for a reason. If the Oppo was superior, then I'm sure they would use it.

Gary.

Like I said before, dealers (such as Sim2) at shows often use HTPCs as the main source for there projectors in preference to expensive standalone DVD players (or the Oppo), and this is done for a reason. If the Oppo was superior, then I'm sure they would use it.
Gary.

Gary -

I can't quite agree with you. While some dealers here on AVS may do that, there is no money to be made by showing and promoting the Oppo from a dealer perspective. Dealers want to sell DVD Players, amps and other products along with their projectors. There are a lot more bucks to be made by dealers selling Denon DVD players and other dealer distributed brands. Oppo is almost solely a product that has found its identity and target mailorder based (not dealer) market here on AVS along with our friends that we recommend them to.

Icon Master

The demonstrators wish to show their projector at its best, so they use the best source, it's as simple as that - they're not selling DVD players since they make projectors. The source player is more often than not, not on display, and is not there to be promoted - the demo is for the projector. I'm talking about demonstrations at events in these cases and not at dealer premises (though HTPC is often a preferred source there too).

Gary.

I'm talking about demonstrations at events in these cases and not at dealer premises (though HTPC is often a preferred source there too).
Gary.

I was under the distinct impression that the person that did the posting was a dealer. At trade shows you are correct. The signal sources are often tucked away but the dealers here all promote their own retail brands of DVD players and the Oppo is Taboo to them. They'd rather sell their own brand of $500 to $5000 DVD players - especially to their sucker doctors and lawyer clients that don't know Oppo from Poop! :)

Icon Master

I finally got my loaner SX50, and am sending my dusty one out today. I do have a polite note to clean the dust out and also do more than just clean it, but to fix the problem so the dust doesn't come back by replacing the entire optical block (as Ken mentioned). Has any one had any dust problems after getting their SX50 'repaired'?

Morritec,

I suggest you refer to it as the "Dust Fix". That's what it says on my repair order "Applied Dust Fix".

Dust free since I got the fix. And we've been using the projector quite a bit. I introduced my boys to the original Star Trek and they've been watching one almost every night for weeks. Of course no projector could present this better than the SX50.

Ken

Yes Ken but didn't they actually replace your entire projector with a later generation one?

OOOOPS! Too late! It's sent out already! I did say on a kindly note when I sent it in, to repair it with whatever it may take so there is no more dust problem. (The loaner I have is also very dusty.) I then reminded them of my prior ownership of the Canon LV-X1 that I owned for three years with no dust problem all that time. I'd like to go three years on this one too, with no more dust.


By the way, I just read that Sony's Blu-Ray DVDs won't necessarily down rez through component output, so the SX-50 should still be fine for those three years with them anyway! Good news!

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/03/10/sony-pictures-blu-ray-titles-wont-down-res/

Dan,

Yeah, but I had to whine for it. But I had my "Dust Fixed" unit for a month or so and it was indeed dust free.

It only took a few hours before the fix for the unit to collect dust. My living room is wall-to-wall carpet and very dusty.

Morritec,

That's interesting. I'll wait until BD and/or HD-DVD is available then decide what I'll do. I'll probably upgrade to the SX60, but I'm not sure yet. 1080P DLP is pretty appealing as well and there's that unkown low priced 1080P LCOS that may come out.


Ken

I have an SX50 that I've run for a few hundred hours. I have never cleaned the filter and I've never experienced and dust globs. How often should I clean the filter and is it fairly easy?

Thanks!

Bill.

I've had mine repaired a few weeks ago in the Netherlands because of the dust problem and the tearing at 1400x1050@60Hz.
The repair receipt said they have replaced the optical block and they installed new firmware. I've bought my unit in March 2005.
I use the unit every day and don't have any dust blobs yet. Convergence doesn't seem to have changed after they have replaced the optical block.
I still have noticed tearing a few times (about once an hour) but it is much less occasional than before (about once every five minutes).

Hi Martin,

At least they admitted the existence of firmware. They swore up and down that these units didn't have upgradable firmware.

My unit manufactured in Nov '05 tears as well. Hope they fix it on the SX60.

Ken

Hi Ken,

At first I contacted Canon support to explain the dust problem and the tearing. The guy I spoke to also swore there was no software update possible for the SX50 :confused: . He also said I cannot use the projector for watching NTSC material (60Hz) because we have PAL in the netherlands!! I told him to look up the manual because it says it is supported but he just refused to help me on this!
After this great "support" experience I decided to let the shop where I bought the unit arrange the repair. Especially because I read a note from a customer on their website saying he got a new unit from Canon because of the dust problem! Unfortunately not the case for me but I'm happy they addressed the problems and have upgraded my unit.

Martin.

I've just received from the Canon repair center an "Acknowledgment" letter stating they've checked over my SX50 and found the "unit needs the optical block replaced, to prevent dust build up. CK ALL." I'm not sure what the last 5 letters means (CK ALL) but at least I can hope to get no more dust! I should get it back within a week. Eager and waiting. The loaner I have is extremely dusty!

Ray

Well, my SX50 came back and it's great to see it now with no dust blobs anywhere. I got used to them being there, but now in retro, how did I manage that?

The receipt says they "Replaced LCD/PRISM ASS'Y." Anybody know what that is?
They also say "ALL FUNCTIONS CHECKED. UNIT CLEANED. DATA UPDATED"

Time to send the dusty loaner back!


Now, will it stay dust-free?

The receipt says they "Replaced LCD/PRISM ASS'Y." Anybody know what that is?
They also say "ALL FUNCTIONS CHECKED. UNIT CLEANED. DATA UPDATED"
Now, will it stay dust-free?


Yes it will. Mine is five months old and not a single dust blob. The problem was not in the dust filter itself as many thought but with openings in the light path assembly.

NOTE:

USA dealer cost dropped $400 on the SX50 March 20th. Units in stock will also be price protected. That means that stocking dealers can sell them at the new lower price and get a rebate back from Canon for the cost change. That puts the SX50's street price about one third that of a Ruby!

I have finally seen a Ruby live on a recent trip to Houston and I don't think they are three times better than our SX50's. It is hard to put a subjective value difference between these since each of us looks for different things in a projector. Most of us SX50 fans like bigger, brighter, rich, lush, SDE free images. The Ruby folks want blacker blacks and don't mind the smaller or special highly reflective screens they need to use along their totally dark, ambient light free rooms needed to reach their viewing objective (Due to the far lower lumen output of the Ruby).

I would say the Ruby's image appeared to be a wee bit sharper than the SX50 but not dramatically so. The unit I saw was not likely properly calibrated but I did not find its blacks that much blacker than the SX50's blacks. On an eight foot wide screen the Ruby was far less bright and rich looking than my SX50 on a nine foot wide screen. The colors were no richer or deeper on the Ruby than of our SX50's. After all LCOS is SXRD is LCOS. The SDE was no more or less noticeable than that of the SX50. My graphic artist wife with a sharp eye for color and detail looked in on the Ruby demo and she was flat out unimpressed. I explained to her that it was 1080p and what that meant - that it is sharper and has better blacks. I am sure the Ruby's lack of lumens unimpressed her more that it slightly sharper image with its tad blacker blacks.

Rather than create a furor with the thin skin, sensitive Ruby owners here as I did when I attempted to show them how much more it costs to own a Ruby (based on depreciation estimates), I will conclude by saying we SX50 owners got a lot more bang for our bucks than those who bought Ruby's as long as you don't figure by size or weight. The huge 44 pound Ruby clearly has us in those departments. :)

Icon Master

Unfortunately my SX50 has developed more dust blobs after its clean :-(
I'm contemplating sending it back to Canon.

Regards,
Dean

Icon: With the current freefall in projector prices, I wouldn,t pay more than $1,500.00 for this projector anymore. It has too many problems such as not having DVI-D and will only do widescreen aspect at 720P and it's internal processing is not that good. Since you are a dealer why don't you ask your contacts if canon will do a board upgrade for dvi-D to the sx50 for a nominal charge . It may help the projector to hold some value.

Unfortunately my SX50 has developed more dust blobs after its clean :-(
I'm contemplating sending it back to Canon.

Regards,
Dean

Sorry to hear this Dean!

I can't believe Canon support doesn't share more information. They should have done the same fix as in the States.

Ken

Unfortunately my SX50 has developed more dust blobs after its clean :-(
I'm contemplating sending it back to Canon.
Dean


Well you did not hear this from me, but it was mentioned that the new design was changed to prevent the dust blob issue. I can say with absolute certainty that my properlry manufactured SX50 has no dust blobs. The cleaning that you got did not seal up the openings that were in the original design of the light path where the panels are located and they just suck the dust onto them. The change in the design of that and not the filter fixed the problem which apparently is incorporated into the new models.

If they will not fix your SX50 properly, I don't know what consumer affairs resources you have there but I would see about working them toward a swap for another new model unit. I have seen Apple succumb to pressure over "lemons" and if you let your squeaking wheel squeak loud enough you might get some "grease."

Good luck and keep us posted.

Icon Master

P.S. My rep said the new models may be shipping by late April which is a month or two sooner than I expected. I may sell my SX50 and go with the SX60.

Icon: With the current freefall in projector prices, I wouldn,t pay more than $1,500.00 for this projector anymore. It has too many problems such as not having DVI-D and will only do widescreen aspect at 720P and it's internal processing is not that good. Since you are a dealer why don't you ask your contacts if canon will do a board upgrade for dvi-D to the sx50 for a nominal charge . It may help the projector to hold some value.

I think there is some miss-information or miss-understandings going on out there. The SX50 does handle DVI-D. That is what my Oppo DVD player sends to it at 720P and even 1080i. The SX50 does not have HDMI/HDCP which to now has not been an issue. It likely will be one when the Blue Rays and HDD's players ship since I think that those will only do HDCP/HDMI.

I am not having any of the scaling issues described here because I have taken a different tack from several staunch SX50 supporters. I am not using a PC to feed my unit video. (Being a Macintosh dealer PC's are not allowed in my home.). I send component or DVI-D directly to the SX50 from any one of my three satellite providers, (C/Ku Dish, Direct TV, Dish Network) or my three DVD, DVDR, VHS units along with the Oppo DVD player. I have not seen an image tear or any artifacts caused by the internal electronics of the Canon. Those issues seem to stem from the use of PC's processing the video before it is sent to the SX50.

Now if you know of a $1500 projector that has an LOCOS class image with no screen door effect, deep lush color that puts out around 1500 to 2000 lumens in econo lam saving mode, I am all ears. Let me know what unit in that price range that can match the quality of image of the SX50. I'd be the first one to jump ship from Canon if you can show me a unit that keeps up with the SX50 for $3500 or less. As I said in a previous post the SX50 has nothing to be ashamed of when being compared to a $10K Ruby although the Ruby folks so far have not invited any of us SX50 owners over for a shootout. :)

Iocn Master

Icon: Again, since you are a cannon dealer, can't you inquire as to whether or not they will do a board upgrade to DVI-D HDCP? This is going to be an issue soon when people find that their blu-rays don't output through their digital connections. Anyone who thinks that the future isn't going to have HDCP as the connrection standard is only kidding themselves.

Raneil,

I sold my mint Sharp XV-Z12000 for $2500.

As more people move to the Ruby, or the new 1080 DLPs, their old (not so old) 720p Home Theater PJs will hit the streets and there will be more bargains to be had. I would definitely hold off on buying a cheap projector because some of those full featured PJs will be available cheap as the pricing of newer home theater PJs keeps dropping.

Raneil,
As more people move to the Ruby, or the new 1080 DLPs, their old (not so old) 720p Home Theater PJs will hit the streets and there will be more bargains to be had. I would definitely hold off on buying a cheap projector because some of those full featured PJs will be available cheap as the pricing of newer home theater PJs keeps dropping.

Raneil -

There are no "bargains" out there. There are "cheaper" projectors with more shortcomings than ones that cost more. The folks on this group like LCOS projectors and particularly the SX50 because it is essentially a JVC or Sony unit but way smaller, way less costly and it has two to four times more lumens than either of the other two primary LCOS projector manufacturers just mentioned. The SX50 was Canon's first go at LCOS and it is not perfect.

I do not think there will be an HDCP upgrade (Yes - I have asked.), but some here have found an alleged work-a-round with an external black box? (Haven't heard much about it lately though.)

LCOS units don't have screen doors - PERIOD!!! I saw a running 1080p Ruby and do not think it is that much shaper than a 720p SX50 and certainly not worth the extra $6000 dollars since it too will be obsoleted by something from Sony better and "cheaper" in a year or so. THe SX50 is THE bargain projector today when you figure in price, lumens, picture quality and even the looked down upon fact that it is 4:3 because screendoorless 720P is a full subset of the 1400x1050 resolution of the SX50. Thus we still can watch our old style movies and regular non-HiDef TV in life size on a full ten to fifteen foot screen and not in some suspended letterbox or distorted widescreen mode.

Every review of the SX50 praised its picture quality and its only misgiving is its 1000:1 or so CR ratio which has the blacks not a black as a DLP but it remains the best and brightest 720P projector today in the $10K and below price range. The only thing close to it in 720P are the two three gun DLP's that cost around $15K to $20K and those both have noticeable screendoor effects.

The new units coming from Canon have improved the CR and added HDCP but have still maintained the 2500 lumens output and even added a 3500 lumen light cannon model. So Canon is moving in the right direction while Sony sells units that are very good, more than twice the price but rather low in lumens requiring smaller or highly reflective hot spot inducing screens.

Icon Master

Anyone knows that whether the new SX60 has len shift. I love to buy this projector but I need to shelf mount. My ceiling is around 9 feet high.

Anyone knows that whether the new SX60 has len shift. I love to buy this projector but I need to shelf mount. My ceiling is around 9 feet high.

I don't think so. You'll have to mount it upside down using a ceiling mount bracket. Put the top shelf at the ceiling and attach the bracket to the bottom of the top shelf. :)

Icon Master

My SX50 sits on a shelf (mantle) at the back of the room. I have it upside down and set to ceiling mount. Very simple. It's a bit over 16' from lens to screen.


Ken

Every review of the SX50 praised its picture quality and its only misgiving is its 1000:1 or so CR ratio which has the blacks not a black as a DLP but it remains the best and brightest 720P projector today in the $10K and below price range. The only thing close to it in 720P are the two three gun DLP's that cost around $15K to $20K and those both have noticeable screendoor effects.


I read several home theater publications and I have NEVER ever seen the Canon SX-50 as the best anything projector or a best buy. What magazines/reviewers refer to it as the best projector in class-under $10,000? Im just curious, since I have owned 3 projectors in the $10,000 or so price range.

Where the SX50 shines is in the living room where lumens are the only way to get a nice picture. I've done the math so many times on this forum that my fingers are getting callouses. :)

Next we have resolution and fill-factor. (no SDE) Your seating can be well within one screen width and give a great experience. (very few living rooms have row seating 1.5X+ widths back)

In a dedicated, light controlled theater your going to want something else like a Ruby.

Right now I don't see anything coming down the pike that's better for the living room except the SX60. 1080P DLP would be nice, but I don't see any high lumen specs.

In a dedicated theater we have many options, and the Canon's aren't likely your best choice, although many would probably prefer that "Plasma Look" that lumens produce in the dark. From what I've seen at Cedia and CES I'd prefer 1080P DLP followed closely by the Ruby.

Ken

In a dedicated theater we have many options, and the Canon's aren't likely your best choice, although many would probably prefer that "Plasma Look" that lumens produce in the dark. From what I've seen at Cedia and CES I'd prefer 1080P DLP followed closely by the Ruby.
Ken

Ken -

Do the 1080p DLP's have the same noticeable screen door as the 720p units?

As to the Ruby being THE HT projector, perhaps you need to read all the forums they have about them here. While none of the owners will admitt outright to its weaknesses, they are spending a lot of time and effort trying to make the Ruby brighter. It appears to me that they are spending a lot more time tweaking than they are watching.

The Ruby's lumens roll off quickly with time of usage. The 44 pound Ruby isn't for everyone for sure and it needs to be made smaller and brighter. There are no 16:9 single DLP or SXRD unit putting out the lumens of the Canon LCOS models.

I finally saw a Ruby live and I was not impressed nor was my wife. None of us SX50 owners have to regret our investments and I think we spend more time watching our unts while the Ruby owners are all on line here trying to figure out how to make their units as bright as our SX50's. :)


Icon Master

"I finally saw a Ruby live and I was not impressed nor was my wife."//Icon Master
...............................

Like yours, my wife has no clue either.
I mean, look who they married.

Ken -

Do the 1080p DLP's have the same noticeable screen door as the 720p units?

...
Icon Master

Not at all. At least the Digital Projection model. I was able to walk right up to the screen and the SDE is very similar to our SX50's. That is excellent.

I had written one chip DLP off, but seeing it at 1080P and no rainbows, I've had to put it back on my list.

The Optoma HD81 I saw at Cedia was fabulous as well, but I didn't pay close attention to SDE. I'm sure I would have noticed it if it weren't excellent. Once you get used to the SX50 SDE becomes very noticeable on other projectors.

Are you going to NAB? (or anyone else?) Or has anyone yet seen the high contrast mode on the SX60?

Please check this out at NAB if you go. I'd go, but my wife's B-day is that week and unfortunately going to NAB isn't on her wish list.

Ken

Are you going to NAB? (or anyone else?) Or has anyone yet seen the high contrast mode on the SX60?

Please check this out at NAB if you go.

Ken

I am 99% sure that I will be going. NAB is where I firsts saw the SX50 last year and it won me over. Unfortunately if the Canon booth is anything like last year it will not be a good place to check out the high contrast mode, too much ambient light. If I see the SX60 I will be sure to make a brief report.

Scot

"I finally saw a Ruby live and I was not impressed nor was my wife."//Icon Master
...............................

Like yours, my wife has no clue either.
I mean, look who they married.

That is usually true - especially for most wives that put up with guys like the active gang here on AVS. :)

However my wife is a top notch graphic artist by profession. She knows color - not in the way of the techies here that are measuring IRE's and XYZ's - but she has to be dead on when she produces logos, presentations, etc.

Many here get lost in the specs, measurements, CR's, ANSI CR's, lumens, reflectivity, hot spots, SDE's, and so on. Our lady friends and wives don't get impressed, error, DISTRACTED by these things. And the ones who have professions in the graphic arts are frankly way more color critical than I and most techies. They go by what look good or more precisley what is color correct. To my wife that is accurate color values. She is into all that Pantone color stuff for example. Anyway, the Ruby to her looked dim and the color was no more "rich." And it was on a eight foot wide screen - a whole foot less wide than mine. Admittedly this was not a side-by-side comparison but graphic artists have great memories for color. So when I say my wife was not impressed I am talking about a professional who works with color every day not being impressed.

In addition I recently sold the largest advertising agency in Louisiana an SX50 and they love it. I'm talking about a firm of nearly 200 employess - about 25% of them are graphic artists. When they go after clients they are dead serious about impressing them with their presentations - whether it is print or video. The head folks have big bucks to spend but they were blown away by the SX50. There is no way they could use a dim Ruby in their impress-the-clients conference room (nor could they afford to have a near full time tech guy tweaking it all day long like the Ruby owners here are doing). And their artists are also super critical about color accuracy. You should see how they react when a display or a print doesn't come out precisely like they laid it out (on their Macs I might add). If you go back through the test reports in the trade journals the SX50 was dead on when it came to color and several here have confirmed that too.

Ken - that is good that the single DLP's have less noticeable SDE, but do any of them put out 2K lumens? While the three "gun" 1080p DLP's may be the ultimate solution, won't they have the same color convergence issues of LCD and LCOS?

Icon Master

I am 99% sure that I will be going. NAB is where I firsts saw the SX50 last year and it won me over. Unfortunately if the Canon booth is anything like last year it will not be a good place to check out the high contrast mode, too much ambient light. If I see the SX60 I will be sure to make a brief report.

Scot

Scott -

We need you to run one test for us if you see the SX60. The brochures are a bit confused. When in cinema mode, see if you can tell if the lumens drop to 1500 or 500. My sales rep could not tell (he is no techie). Also see if the colors change that much - i.e. is it even worth the lumen sacrifice.

Thanks,

Icon Master

"I say my wife was not impressed I am talking about a professional "//Icon Master
..............................
Small world, mine too. met her in Nevada at a mens recreational facility. Boy, you talk about colors, Hey, maybe they run in the same circles ?
Anyway, small world :).

Small world, mine too. met her in Nevada at a mens recreational facility. Boy, you talk about colors, Hey, maybe they run in the same circles ?
Anyway, small world :).

Many years ago, my once foxy wife was recruited to work at "The Ranch" but those modeling figure days are two ten pound babies (now thirty something) ago. Maybe your wife can give mine a refresher course in that kind of "color?" :)

Icon Master

I am 99% sure that I will be going. NAB is where I firsts saw the SX50 last year and it won me over. Unfortunately if the Canon booth is anything like last year it will not be a good place to check out the high contrast mode, too much ambient light. If I see the SX60 I will be sure to make a brief report.

Scot

Scot,

It was yours and Mr. Wigggles' reports that got me so interested in the SX50.

If Canon had the same setup as they did at CES then yeah, it was not too good.

My main interest in the SX60 now is how they are achieving the 2k:1 CR. I think it is with a filter, Darin seems to think its with an iris.

I hope Darin is correct, although I care more about the color of the black than the absolute value. My SX50 has enough CR for most scenes. Its the blue hue of the black that is most distracting. If they fixed that and added HDCP then I'll take a serious look at upgrading.


Ken

I'm more interested in the SX6 instead of the SX60.
I'm getting the impression that the improved CR on the SX60 might
be done with fancy firmware tricks.
Let's think about this for a second.
The majority of the CR in this projector comes from the behaviour
of the panels, does it not?

Ken,

"Its the blue hue of the black that is most distracting. "

Why don't you just put a filter on it?

Hi Noah,

Well, I'm not sure a filter would work well.

The SX50 doesn't have any offset adjustments, only gains.
It's not too bad though, since you can get it within a few deltaE's of D65 from 10-100IRE using only gain adjustments. It's only below 10 IRE that it goes blue.

If I corrected the bottom 5 IRE with a filter then I'd have a red (or yellow) hue around 10 that I couldn't correct with offset adjustments.

Ken

Hmm, I see what you mean.

If I corrected the bottom 5 IRE with a filter then I'd have a red (or yellow) hue around 10 that I couldn't correct with offset adjustments.

A Lumagen scaler might help there. Assuming their 11 point adjustments are for each color.

--Darin

Hi Noah,
Well, I'm not sure a filter would work well.
Ken

In the preliminary brochure the Canon rep sent to me, it looks like there is an internal filter moved into the light path. There is no indication of an Auto Iris. It does appear to reduce the lumens - perhaps by as much as 1000 but that is the point that is not clear.

Ken - don't be so negative about the filter approach. Considering the company producing the product and Canon's strength in digital video and photography. If you can live with the reduced lumens, it is quite possible this custom internal filter would give dead on accurate color (whatever that means). For the moment this is all speculation. This might even make folks like Darin happy, since with the reduced lumens, if will fit his criterion for an absolute dark cave HT room. Now if it was only 1080p and 16x9... Oh well, guess you can't have everything - at least not until the year after next when Sony's Sapphire with 2K lumens ships. :)

Icon Master

Icon,

I was just down on using one with my SX50.

Seeing (and measuring) how Canon handled sRGB mode I imagine they'll do a superb job with a filter. They have all the adjustments they need to get it right.

Ken

Icon,
Seeing (and measuring) how Canon handled sRGB mode I imagine they'll do a superb job with a filter. They have all the adjustments they need to get it right.
Ken

We'll see but not as soon as I hoped. I sold my dust free SX50 to a client and placed an order for a SX60 demo unit. It was supposed to be shipping by the end of April but that date has slipped to mid-May.

This delivery slippage will give me time to buy some blackout drapes so I can set up an absolutely dark Darin class HT cave just in case the SX60's lumens do get knocked down to below 1000 in Cinema mode. But if it does have a 2000:1 CR ratio (according to the specs that is NOT on-off CR but on screen CR while displaying a real image), then it will be ahead of the Ruby since it is not using an iris to stop down the image and put out 200 to 300 lumens (if that much) while showing a dark scene. In other words the SX60 will have 2000:1 CR (in Cinema mode) whether it is a light are dark scene and the lumen output will be constant and not fluctuating as is the case in an iris based system.

Very soon we'll have a 1400x1050 true 720p plus(since we can still watch old movies in full screen mode too) LCOS based unit with 2000:1 CR with a lumen output from 500 to 2500 depending on the mode used and it will have the required(?) HDMI/HDCP port needed to deal with the newer DVD players staying in full digital mode. Perhaps next year we get full 1080p in a small ten pound "box" for $5K to $6K?

Icon Master

Rats! I broke my own rule and bought too soon after a new projector came out, ended up with the dust problem and that annoying light spill. Sure wish I could trade this SX50 at reasonable cost for the new one. I'm assuming they masked the chip this time to get rid of the light spill.

Guess I'll stick with this one and send it in when we go traveling to get the dust problem fixed. Last time I ever break my rule against buying too soon again. The SX 60 is what the SX 50 should have been.

Bummer. :(

But if it does have a 2000:1 CR ratio (according to the specs that is NOT on-off CR but on screen CR while displaying a real image), then it will be ahead of the Ruby since it is not using an iris to stop down the image and put out 200 to 300 lumens (if that much) while showing a dark scene. In other words the SX60 will have 2000:1 CR (in Cinema mode) whether it is a light are dark scene and the lumen output will be constant and not fluctuating as is the case in an iris based system.


Icon Master

Sounds like marketing BS to me. You either have standard on/off or ANSI CR, and there's no way it'll have 2000:1 ANSI, but 2000:1 uncalibrated on/off is feasable. Calibrated will probably be much less, and regardless still a long way from the Ruby (with iris in on, off or auto) or other fixed CR systems like many DLPs which exceed 2000:1 when calibrated to D65.

Got a link for that info since I can't really believe it actually says that.

Gary

Sounds like marketing BS to me. You either have standard on/off or ANSI CR, and there's no way it'll have 2000:1 ANSI, but 2000:1 uncalibrated on/off is feasable. Calibrated will probably be much less, and regardless still a long way from the Ruby (with iris in on, off or auto) or other fixed CR systems like many DLPs which exceed 2000:1 when calibrated to D65.
Got a link for that info since I can't really believe it actually says that.
Gary

There is no link to the info I mentioned. It is on a data CD sent to dealers and the files are too large (and possibly confidential) to post here.

According to the info the 2000:1 is in the cinema mode with the color calibration filter in place and it is measured during an actual image. I have heard the boast about the Ruby's CR but was not impressed by the uncalibrated one I saw live and I have yet to see an extensive test of one like the German test of the Qualia. The "Q" is three times the price still(?) and its actual test results gave CR's in the range of 1200 to 2500 to 1 depending on the iris being on or off. Iris off of course gave the lower rating and it isn't that much better than the trade magazine measured 950:1 of the SX50 with it non-existent iris being "off."

Will the in-line internal filter make the SX60 dead on perfect D65? That remains to be seen but the RGB mode of the SX50 in every test report gave it excellent color accuracy scores and that has been backed up by the SX50 owners here.

We've debated/discussed this before but I am sure if the in-line filter does knock the lumens of the SX60 down to 500 or 1000 then the CR on a live image may very well be 2000:1. Conversely, and this is where the debate heats up, if the output of the Ruby or "Q" was stepped up, then with the light leakage/internal reflections in the light path and in the LCOS assembly and polarizers, their CR's would fall way down. Canon's LCOS units put out more lumens and thus have lower CR's. Whether it is a filter or an Iris, those are devices that kick up the CR but at the expense of lumens.

I also seem to recall reading that it is the internal reflection of light in the DLP projector's DMD assemblies that limit's their CR's and that TI is always working on better schemes to absorb the reflected light inside the DMD to improve the CR's. Obviously the more light energy (lumens) you put int a DMD, the tougher it is to absorb the stray light/energy.That is why the auditorium/movie theater class projectors are so huge. They need large assemblies and surface areas to dissipate the light/heat/energy running through them.

Suffering withdrawal having to live with a DLP projector till my SX60 arrives,

Icon Master

I'll be surprised if it tracks at D65 since most projectors don't, and each lamp can have a different color balance so you would have to calibrate each pj seperately to get it accurate. Most manufacturers quote maximum figures for lumens and CR so I wouldn't think that Canon would be any different. It's not unusual for the out of the box figures to be 20 to 30% lower, and the calibrated figure 40% lower (or more).

Due to the lamps lack of red compared to the green and blue, you will have a much brighter uncalibrated image. Reducing the green and blue down to match the red using the pj gains and bias reduces image brightness and contrast and gives a better colour balance, but if you use a filter to optically balance the colours by boosting the red, you can remain closer to the uncalibrated brightness and contrast by leaving the green and blue higher. It does reduce the image brightness as well as the black level and that looks like how the SX60 will work.

Adding a brighter lamp just increases the white and black levels equally, so the CR stays the same. It's the same as going from eco mode to normal mode with the lamp, and all the pjs I've mesured have had the same CR in both modes. If your suggestion was true, the CR would reduce when the lamp went into high mode, but it doesn't.

A DLP like all fixed pixel projecors have trouble doing black to some degree or another, and LCOS/LCD appear to have have more problems than DLP in this respect - the grey blacks are testament to that. DLP prooduces much better blacks natively and has higher ANSI capabilities so is ahead in that at the moment. You can however improve LCoS and LCD with clever use of an auto iris and the Ruby does this exceptionally well by all accounts. I've seen an HS60 (HS51 in US I believe), and that manages to keep good DLP like blacks through out and measures at 8500:1 CR out of the box.

With 2000:1 CR and no iris, you should have a respectable black level though - I've seen a Sanyo Z4 which has a poor black level until the iris shuts down, but it doesn't do that except with low APL scenes so still looks like a typical LCD a lot of the time. It will be interesting to see how well the SX60 does in that respect with it's filter.

Gary

We are waiting for a Canon with 1920x1080 AND an auto-iris. Icon Master will still have the option of leaving the iris open to maximize lumen and everyone is happy.

Time for such a Canon, CEDIA?

We are waiting for a Canon with 1920x1080 AND an auto-iris. Icon Master will still have the option of leaving the iris open to maximize lumen and everyone is happy.

Time for such a Canon, CEDIA?

From what I am hearing this will be for a while. They added the three new LCOS models and a few (ho-hum) LCD units. I hope they have a 1080p unit on the drawing boards but I haven't heard a bit about that. They did have that unusual wide format demo projection unit shown last year at Canon's technology trade show in New York but there is no telling if that will ever be a real product.

What encourages me to believe they will move in that direction is that they just announced a super HiDef video camera. It may surpass those from Sony in its price range. So if they are going to have HiDef video cameras shouldn't they have wide screen projectors to match up with them? Yes I realize that is wishful thinking but for now the SX50/SX60 are nice crossover units with great looking 4:3 output and also a full 720P output subset.

I still watch a lot of regular movies on Satellite channels that are not HiDef and also CNN, local sports, etc. I am not a purist like some folks here who claim they only watch HiDef and DVD's on their projectors and only when the lights are always off. I use my Canon like a TV set and it does a great job in both SD and HD and I don't care for side-panel letter boxed SD or stretched SD over a 16:9 area. So regardless of what the alleged HiDef, purists lie, err, say here, I am sure more than a few turn the lights on in their dark caves and even watch SD programming too. When they do sneak real world TV viewing with their 6000:1 units the CR goes to the dogs and the higher lumens of our not so pure 4:3 Canon's come through and looks great. I can only hope that the 16:9 Canon projectors, if they come, will maintain the high lumens but since it is easier to improve CR at lower lumens I wouldn't be surprised if they fall back into the low lumen pack with a 1080p projector.

Icon Master

We are waiting for a Canon with 1920x1080 AND an auto-iris.

Perhaps I am missing something about the much touted Auto Iris CR improvement solution. When you stop down a lens's aperture are you not reducing the amount of light going through the lens? If that is correct then you are dimming the entire projected image down while trying to improve its CR - correct? Yes the blacks are blacker but the whole darn image is dimmer too. So what is to be gained by a higher contrast yet dimmer, harder to see image?

Again, if i am missing something in the logic or physics here, I would appreciate an explanation.

Thanks,

Icon Master

You're missing the fact that the video is simultaneously boosted to compensate for the iris.

So a properly adjusted AI system will have constant maximum brightness and darker blacks.

Ken

An auto-iris can be implemented in many ways. You can have a slow one or just operating slowly to eliminate iris delay effects. You can have a fast acting auto-iris but risking visible transitions. In addition you can have a large or small aperture range.

Icon Master
KenLand´s summary of what you are missing is short and to the point. No system is perfect and if one does not like the result it can be turned off. I will agree with you that many today sacrifice brightness for a better black level. Ideally we want both. It does bug me when a sunny day looks dull. The strange thing is that this level of dullness does vary quite a bit between dvds.

"You're missing the fact that the video is simultaneously boosted to compensate for the iris.

So a properly adjusted AI system will have constant maximum brightness and darker blacks."

Boosting the video can't add back the lumens the iris takes out, so it will fall short on scenes with a mix of low and high IRE.

But if most of the scene is dim, the bright parts look brighter in contrast.

I can tell you that looking at the Pan 900 I just got, DI really works. I wouldn't know it was there if I hadn't read about it, and the blacks are quite satisfying.

If you have seen an auto-iris work you wont want to do without. While to some it has a stigma I dont think that it should. If you were purist enough to not want (whatever negative word you want to put in here) of an auto-iris you can probably still set the iris to on, for high contrast, and off, for high brightness.

There are some tradeoffs, like some brightness compression, but for the most part the images are a lot more satisfying.

I have watched parts of movies/videos with iris on, off, and with auto-iris and auto-iiris almost always provides the best experience. Additionally the iris settings on auto iris mode can be tweaked and Darin's and Alan's tweaks to the Ruby mitigate a bit of the complaints against the auto-iris on the Ruby.

Dont knock it til youve tried it. 8)

...

Boosting the video can't add back the lumens the iris takes out, so it will fall short on scenes with a mix of low and high IRE.

...

You mean it can't add back more lumens than the lamp can put out.
It's a balancing act, but in general the video is boosted to compensate for the iris.

A friend of mine that reviewed one of the first HS51's got a unit with the video boost circuit malfunctioning. I didn't see it, but from his description you don't want an AI without it.

Ken

the SX50/SX60 are nice crossover units with great looking 4:3 output and also a full 720P output subset. Icon Master

A naive question: if one uses the sx50/60 on a 9x16 screen, with the output set to 720p, does this pj display the correct 9x16 pic that fills the screen? And then if one were using it with a Comcast 6214 III cable box for tv, would it display the correct 9x16 image for hdtv and 3x4 image (with black side bars) for sd channels?

Bill,

The best way to do 720P is to put it in True Size and let it use 1280x720 of its pixels with no scaling.

SX50 does 720P great.

Ken

Bill,

The best way to do 720P is to put it in True Size and let it use 1280x720 of its pixels with no scaling.

SX50 does 720P great.

Ken

Ken, thanks for the reply. So one would project it on a std 9x16 screen?

You could.

I have a 80" wide 4:3 WidePower popup.

I always project full width and pop the screen up less or more to match the aspect ratio.

It makes for a mondo 4:3 image, but is a little small for 16:9 or 2.35:1 movies.

I have a 92" wide Highpower and that width works much better, but the popup is just too convenient.

The SX50 is so bright that it will handle any screen you're likely to want. I think some have 133" and larger screens around here.


Ken

I have a 92" wide Highpower and that width works much better, but the popup is just too convenient.Ken

Wow, a 92" HP with a SX50--that much be an amazingly bright pic! Not too bright?

Wow, a 92" HP with a SX50--that much be an amazingly bright pic! Not too bright?

Hey, Panasonic's not the only one with a giant plasma! :)

Ken

Hey, Panasonic's not the only one with a giant plasma!

Ken

AND tanning salon. 8)

KenLand
Can you comment on any drawbacks of your setup. Brightness is great but how does a chase scene in a starlit landscape look. Do you really mind your setups brightness when it is suppossed to be dark? Viewing habits should determine a setup.

The only drawback is weak and blueish blacks. 10-100 IRE its flat D65, but somewhere below 10 it goes awry. I suspect this is the area they attacked with the SX60.

I do measure CR at above 900:1, so its not terrible.

Like I've said before, if you're building a dedicated light controlled theater for movies then move on. But for living room movies or sports or lights on viewing it can be a great projector.

It also can be a lot of fun. It's tiny and so for instance I carried it outside last night and we watched Star Wars Episode IV while in the pool/hottub. Whole family had a blast. Wouldn't try that with something like a Ruby.

It definitely depends on your priorities and lifestyle. We're a family of engineers and like to bring technology to us. My family would rarely go into a special room.

Oh yeah, probably the biggest drawback is no HDCP. I've solved it with a black box, but its a bit cumbersome.

SX60 should take care of most of this. Although I would prefer it was the same price as the SX50. We'll have to see how it streets.

Ken

I was looking around for a web price on the sx60 and found it to be around 4300.00 . A lot less than the 6,000.00 retail but I really want the Cinetron but who knows when it's going to come out. It would'nt be so bad if I I could live with with a less expensive projector until I could get what I want but I know that anything less than 1080p is going to make me unhappy since I do see mostly everything in true high def 16:9 television (most of the local stations are owned or controlled by the broadcast networks and Therefore I don't use cable OTA is just fine for me.) If Cinetron dosent pan out I'll belly up the extra 3,000.00 for the Sony unless my apt. gets leveled by the next hurricane and breaks the bank.

You're missing the fact that the video is simultaneously boosted to compensate for the iris.
So a properly adjusted AI system will have constant maximum brightness and darker blacks.
Ken

Still not getting it...

When you say the video is boosted are you saying the bulb is sent more current/voltage when the iris is stopped down to improve the CR? If that is the case then why not just keep the iris stopped down and use a brighter bulb to begin with? Isn't the consequence of boosting the lamp going to shorten its life? Also isn't that going to increase the heat/energy dissipated in the LCD/DLP/LCOS panels and light path optics which will shorten their life? In other words, you are not getting something for nothing here. Then as you read the section here where the Ruby folks are constantly seeking better settings to gain the brightness/lumens without loss of image quality and transition issues.... aren't we seeing that this AI is essentially a gimmick that has serious side effects?

On a different matter, how can an end user without expensive tools attempt to get that perfect D65 color calibration? My SX50 using the three color filters and Digital Video Essential was nearly dead on but the alleged purple-black issue was not something that bothered me. Guess I'm not purple sensitive. Didn't one of us SX50 owners here do a D65 calibration? If so, how did you achieve that?

Icon Master

Icon Master
Think of a pixel told to be 50 percent of maximum brightness. Then reduce the overall illumination by 50 percent. If you do not change the signal to the pixel it will get dimmer. Thus you tell the pixel to be 100 percent of maximum brightness. This just a simple example but you can imagine why brightness compression can result from this practise.

However most auto-iris only start to stop down with a very low average picture level. Then you can have really bright outdoor scenes and good punch for mixed up scenes. What is to be gained is the contrast between levels at the low end of the greyscale. You give the projector a chance to use all of its dynamic to separate brightness levels for the bottom levels in the scale. Also space is black and not grey.

Icon,

I use a Gretag Macbeth EyeOne Pro Spectroradiometer with Accucal (Jeff Meier/umr) software. i1's are on sale from any color vendor. I'm sure your wife has some catalogs laying around. Not sure if Jeff is still selling his software. You can use software from Gretag or others like ColorFacts. (Jeff's is by far the best)

Just put up the gray patterns from DVE and adjust the Red, Green, and Blue in the user menu until as many IRE's are as close to D65 as you can get. (as measured with the i1)

The actual video boost portion of the AI is somewhat complex with all it's trying to achieve, but the basic idea is simple as Ohlson describes.

Ken

Ken

May I ask what black box you used to solve the HDCP issue. I want one!!!

Kevin



The only drawback is weak and blueish blacks. 10-100 IRE its flat D65, but somewhere below 10 it goes awry. I suspect this is the area they attacked with the SX60.

I do measure CR at above 900:1, so its not terrible.

Like I've said before, if you're building a dedicated light controlled theater for movies then move on. But for living room movies or sports or lights on viewing it can be a great projector.

It also can be a lot of fun. It's tiny and so for instance I carried it outside last night and we watched Star Wars Episode IV while in the pool/hottub. Whole family had a blast. Wouldn't try that with something like a Ruby.

It definitely depends on your priorities and lifestyle. We're a family of engineers and like to bring technology to us. My family would rarely go into a special room.

Oh yeah, probably the biggest drawback is no HDCP. I've solved it with a black box, but its a bit cumbersome.

SX60 should take care of most of this. Although I would prefer it was the same price as the SX50. We'll have to see how it streets.

Ken

Ken

May I ask what black box you used to solve the HDCP issue. I want one!!!

Kevin

Dtrovision DD-D12P DVI Distribution amp from Digital Connection.

Ken

Hi, I have been experimenting with the curves color calibration of my NVidia 6800gt, could use those controls to track D65. In the Nvidia controls i have control curves for RGB seperately, so in theory i guess i should be able to control color bias for each point of the curve, getting rid of purple blacks etc.
Am i totally of the page on this one?

It would be interesting to try.

You would want to adjust the projector to D65 from 10-100IRE first and then adjust your Nvidia controls only in the area below 10IRE.

The rule of thumb is you always want to adjust the projector when possible.

If you try it, let us know how it goes.

Ken

Icon,
Just put up the gray patterns from DVE and adjust the Red, Green, and Blue in the user menu until as many IRE's are as close to D65 as you can get. (as measured with the i1)
Ken


Ken -

Just out of curiosity, how much did you have to adjust the Red, Green and Blue to get the SX50 to be near D65. Be specific - i.e. What were the actual values you ended up with after the calibration and how much did each primary color deviate from the default setting??

Thanks,

Icon Master

Hi..I need some confirmation(and to make myself feel better about my decision).I currently am replacing an infocus sp5000 projector, I purchased it 'cause it was 720p, cheap, and based on mixed reviews, for the money, I took a "Leap" into the projector market...That being said.I was going to purchase a optoma h78dc3(3000 shipped w/ a free replacement bulb) Then I read about the new optoma hd72 AND the optoma 7100 , of course I started to second guess myself(LOL)!!! THEN I stumbled across this projector..I am 90% convinced this is the way to go..BRIGHTNESS is seductive!!! I use a 16 x 9 Hipower 119" Dalite screen..My source is a hp 555 HT computer, a momitsu v880 dvd, and the motorola pvr HD cable box(the new one with hdmi)...Will the canon do a BRIGHT, COLOR filled picture as compared to my previous choices?I SHOULD MENTION I want a 720p 16x9 picture.. the price for the canon(sx50) will be 3500nshipped( with a 3 bulb replacement warranty...PLEASE feel free to CHIME IN!!! Thank you in advance for the HELP!!

Don't mean to hijack narrw's questions but may I add that for a 16x9 screen, what sacrifice in terms of setup and quality can one expect for this 4x3 projector? for a 1.85 or 2.35 movie, if I zoom in to fill the width of the screen, are the surrounding black areas going to be bad? Why doesn't Canon make 16x9 HT projectors?

Hi..I need some confirmation(and to make myself feel better about my decision).I currently am replacing an infocus sp5000 projector, I purchased it 'cause it was 720p, cheap, and based on mixed reviews, for the money, I took a "Leap" into the projector market...That being said.I was going to purchase a optoma h78dc3(3000 shipped w/ a free replacement bulb) Then I read about the new optoma hd72 AND the optoma 7100 , of course I started to second guess myself(LOL)!!! THEN I stumbled across this projector..I am 90% convinced this is the way to go..BRIGHTNESS is seductive!!! I use a 16 x 9 Hipower 119" Dalite screen..My source is a hp 555 HT computer, a momitsu v880 dvd, and the motorola pvr HD cable box(the new one with hdmi)...Will the canon do a BRIGHT, COLOR filled picture as compared to my previous choices?I SHOULD MENTION I want a 720p 16x9 picture.. the price for the canon(sx50) will be 3500nshipped( with a 3 bulb replacement warranty...PLEASE feel free to CHIME IN!!! Thank you in advance for the HELP!!
Ok..No responses yet..Just my luck..I must have discovered this thread when everybody is talked out(LOL) I'll try again...In addition to the above questions does anyone know whether the sx60 is worth the $ over a sx50? Also, there seems to be a weight difference between the two..11.6 lbs vs. 8.9lbs..Ok, one more question what is LCOS2? Could that be one difference between the two projectors? I Would immensely appreciate any advice/help on these issues..THANKS

In addition to the above questions does anyone know whether the sx60 is worth the $ over a sx50?

Narrw -

Since no one here has as far as I know seen an SX60, we don't know if the difference in price is justifiable. It depends on whether it lives up to its pre-advertised specs and if you find the new features worth paying for. The SX60 has a larger chassis to improve it air flow dynamics so the fans are likely bigger and run at slower speeds making it a quieter unit. The SX50's had a dust blob issue which was addressed in later models and that fix is allegedly in the SX60 from day one. The SX60 has HDMI/HDCP compatability which will let it connect to many devices that use the copy protected version of DVI like those on the new HiDef DVD players. The SX50 has a non-HDCP DVI port. The SX60 has a new Cinema mode that drops an internal filter into the optical path to improve active contrast to an alleged 2000:1 and it also improves on the SX50's color accuracy which is pretty good already.

Both of thes units put out a 4:3 image. Thus 16:9 720p output will be a letterboxed subset of the full image. This translates to the image taking up the full width and about the middle two-thirds vertically of the 4:3 image. Most Canon fans see this as a plus since we can watch regular video and old movies in their full screen mode. A 16:9 projector displays 4:3 video in an even smaller letter box or in some distorted, stretched fashion.

There is a thread here where the need for 1080p is being discussed. To get a 1080p unit now will cost a lot more money and there is next to no true 1080p content. Broadcast HiDef is 1080i or 720p. The new HDD DVD player is 1080i - not 1080p. Blue Ray DVD players will do 1080p but then there is a debate about whether the encoded content is 1080p to begin with. There are a lot of purists here that have to have in (at least in their mind) the latest and greatest even if the benefits are barely measurable or viewable. The Ruby is touted as the living end here by many. I am one of those who think otherwise. It is twice the price of a SX60, weighs forty something pounds, has $1000 bulb yet compared to either Canon unit - the lumen output is dim. It has a better CR ratio using an auto iris and does an "upscaled" 1080p. It too is LCOS based like the Canon units so neither unit has a visible screen door. For its slightly sharper image and blacker blacks you will pay about $5K more up front and take a beating on its depreciation in a year or so.

So I stand by my previous comment that the SX50 & probably now the SX60 are the best values and most versatile projectors available today based on the big, bright, LCOS quality, screen door free images they produce. Others don't agree and that is fine. Beauty or value is in the eye of the beholder. Lots of folks here love their large, heavy, expensive to own and operate complex Ruby projectors. Most Ruby owners (here anyway) appear to like to spend more time tweaking their units than watching them and due to their low lumen output, this has to be done in a cave dark room. (I call them dark caves.) So if you like to tweak, if you can make your HT room absolutely dark, if you have $5,000 to $6000 extra to toss about and if you feel the need to lock step with the masses rather than be a free thinker and do things a bit differently then join the Ruby gang here and forget about the Canon units.

Icon Master

First off, thank you for responding!!I agree whole heartedly with your insight on performance/money so, NO RUBY FOR ME!!I do not watch in a CAVE either (LOL) I live in the "real world" so a with a lamp on , I think it's crazy to be a slave to a 7500-8500 dollar projector. You are also correct in the "cost of ownership" I mean 1000 bucks a LAMP, GOOD GOD!!But I digress...I was mainly interested in the optoma 78/79 w/ the dc3 chip..the reason I considered the optoma 72, SWEET LUMENS..The thread about the sx50(Light canon) makes me want the projector.I was asking about the 16 x9 , because I own a 119' diagonal Hipower screen ..so let me see if I comprehend....The canon Will do a TRUE 720p 1280 x 720 , And fill my screen FULLY? I'm glad YOU(Icon) responded..because you seem to have a LOT of passion about this projector...One more ?.. for 3500 bucks(that includes up to 3 bulb replacements )Is there anything out there for another 1000 as good as the canon...Knowing my situation..BRIGHt pic and colors a priority...is this the projector for me? THANKS in advance!!!PS 720p is GOOD enough for me..1080p is not cost effective IMHO

I was asking about the 16 x9 , because I own a 119' diagonal Hipower screen ..so let me see if I comprehend....The canon Will do a TRUE 720p 1280 x 720 , And fill my screen FULLY? I'm glad YOU(Icon) responded..because you seem to have a LOT of passion about this projector...One more ?.. for 3500 bucks(that includes up to 3 bulb replacements )Is there anything out there for another 1000 as good as the canon...Knowing my situation..BRIGHt pic and colors a priority...is this the projector for me? THANKS in advance!!!PS 720p is GOOD enough for me..1080p is not cost effective IMHO

The Canon is 1400x1050 so 1280x720 is a subset that fits into the central araa of the projected image. There is a setting that lets you expand the image to fill the full width and the height expands accordingly. I use that setting becaise I don't care for the small right and left borders. My 4:3 screen is 132" diagonal. The HiDef stuff generally projects to a 120" diagonal image. If I have a concern about your setup, it is the Hi-Power screen. My SX50 was plenty bright in econo lamp mode on a StudioTek 130 which ia a 1.3 gain screen. If the HiPower is a 2.0 gain you might need some sun glasses and perhaps you'll need a sun lamp on too. :)

Since all of the single gun DLP HT models are about 1000 lumens or less as is the Ruby, I know of no other projector that competes with the Canon LCOS units in picture qualty and high lumens. The SX50 will be $1000 and then some more costly but its new features may justify the difference - especially the Cinema mode with higher CR, the quiter operation and the HDCP compatibility. If you have the extra bucks and ample amount of patience then wait a month or so and get the feedback on the SX60 before making your choice.

Icon Master

Really wish Canon would put out a 9x16 1080p version of their LCOS pj. Does anybody that knows the business think there's any chance of this?

Icon Master[/QUOTE]
. If I have a concern about your setup, it is the Hi-Power screen. My SX50 was plenty bright in econo lamp mode on a StudioTek 130 which ia a 1.3 gain screen. If the HiPower is a 2.0 gain you might need some sun glasses and perhaps you'll need a sun lamp on too. Hey.with as much time as I plan to spend in front of this projector..I'M GOING TO NEED SOME COLOR :) I made my decision WOO-HOO SX50!!! The final "straw" was , letting me exchange the sx50 for the sx60 if I need to(so I guess you will let us know if the sx60 is superior to the sx50) :D ...SOOOO, Thanks Icon, for your help..It is much appreciated

I tried out configuring the blue curve for under 10 IRE, basically i just created a custom curve for the blue gamma graph in the Nvidia forceware color calibration setting. It allows me to control the "color temperature" for each level basically, now the remaining question is, how this level of calibration differs from having an actual service menu in the projector.

I came up with a pretty interesting, imho :p idea how to verify the gray tracking. By photographing the screen with my Canon 300d, on cloudy sky white balance (which is 6500K). When i examine the picture of a grey scale in photoshop i can see the RGB components of the grey levels and thus i can correct the curves as neccessary until all grey levels are of equal rgb levels..

What do you think? Could this approach work, as an amatourish substitute for a real calibration... :D

I've had my SX50 (build march 2005) dust blob fixed more than 2 months ago. It is still completely dust blob free. I think it is safe to conclude that Canon has addressed the dust blob issue on the SX50 with the replacement of the optical block. Great job by Canon.

Mark,

I don't see why shouldn't try it.

I could take a picture of my calibrated screen with my 300d and send you a copy. :)

I guess setting the camera to D65 WB means that it will assign equal RGB values to anything it believes is D65?

sRGB mode is close enough that you could average whatever you measure 10-100IRE and treat that as your target. Then adjust your curves to match.

Have you done enough to get a feel for how well the correction might work?

One thing to watch out for on sRGB mode is that it won't let 100 IRE get too far off target. The result is that you can crank up the contrast too far thinking that you're ok.

Ken

Are your monitors and printers set to D65? If not they could be displaying the photographs/greyscale incorrectly.

SpyderTV is probably the cheapest way to accurately get to D65 if you don't mind spending the money.

Gary

I tried this and it looks pretty good, to my surprise my sx50 seems to be a bit on the green side, but that could be due to my "screen" an ikea blind (tuplur)

i'm just checking the numeric rgb value, so a calibration error on the monitor does not matter, the only assumption i make is that the white balance of my camera is correct, the question there is guess how well the sensor in the camera compares to a dedicated light meter...

One more thing, since i'm using DVI, which is 8 bit per channel, i guess i'm actually clipping some information away by offsetting the rgb channels, would it be better to use analogue out? I'm assuming the Nvidia card uses higher color resolution internally and could turn out analog information that would be lost in the digital path.

Cheers,

Make as much of the adjustment as you can in the projector. Set the R,G,B gains. (Don't use the 6-axis color control)

Then you won't have to worry about clipping values.

Then just play with your Nvidia curves down low.

Ken

Make as much of the adjustment as you can in the projector. Set the R,G,B gains. (Don't use the 6-axis color control)


Ken -

I believe I asked you iin a prior post what your final R,G,B gains ended up being set to but I don't recall seeing you post those settings yet. Would you mind postting them so we have a idea as to how much you had to move them from the default settings?

Thanks,

Icon Master

I haven't forgot Icon. I've just been so busy with work I haven't had a chance to fire it up. Haven't even hardly used my new HD-DVD player.

I'm sure I'll get to it today.

Ken

Ok, my SX50 has a whopping -3 on the Blue adjust. That's it to get to D65 in sRGB mode.

Enjoying Apollo 13 in glorious HD-DVD.

Ken

I haven't forgot Icon. I've just been so busy with work I haven't had a chance to fire it up. Haven't even hardly used my new HD-DVD player.
Ken

Thanks in advance Ken. I too bought an HD-DVD unit from Walmart. They are scarce but I lucked out and found one here in New Orleans. Since I don't have a Canon projector right now I set it up using the HDMI connection to my Mitsubshi projector which does have HDCP. It is only an XGA unit (1024x768) but the picture is pretty good feeding it 1080i and letting the projector down scale it.

I look forward to hearing your comments on how it does with the SX50. Will you use your black box to feed it HDMI or component? If you can do both I am sure the other Canon fans out there want to hear if you see much if any differences. BTW, I also played a standard DVD on the Toshiba and its upscaling looks to be as good as the Oppo but I cannot tell for sure since my current projector is so much lower rez.

Icon Master

Ok, my SX50 has a whopping -3 on the Blue adjust. That's it to get to D65 in sRGB mode.
Enjoying Apollo 13 in glorious HD-DVD.
Ken

Ken -

That is it? You did a minus three on the blue and you got near perfect D65? WoW!!!

Try using your HDD unit to upscale a standard commercial DVD and tell us how it compares to your PC setup's output.

Icon Master

Hi Guys,

I'm waiting for the sx 60 to start shipping here in Sweden. But I have one smaller concern before placing the order.

I'm planning to use it in a 16:9 setup with a wall mounted 16:9 screen. How much of the light from the 4:3 pannel will leak outside the 16:9 frame? Will it be obvious that it is a 4:3 projector based on the light outside the 16:9 image?

You know when you are looking at a 2.35:1 image on a 16:9 screen you can easily tell that the black bands above and below the image still gets a lot of light. I mean you can easily see that there is 16:9 projector even though the current movie is 2.35:1. At least this was the case with my sony vw10 and other projectors I have seen.

I'm I making sense?

Thanks

Yossy

If you have black walls and a black velvet border around the screen it should mask a lot of the overspill, and you shouldn't be able to make it out except in very dark scenes when your eye has adapted to the darkness.

I used to have a 2000:1 calibrated CR 4:3 DLP (NEC HT1000) and that was just barely visible in the right conditions. Mind you, it wasn't as bright as the Canon so that will make a big difference in halo.

The bigger the screen you use the less bright the image will be of course. If it is still too bright, you may be able to use an ND filter to get a better black level.

Gary

Thanks for your reply Gary.

One reason that I'm going for the sx60 is that I don't have a dedicated theater. I want a big screen in my living room and the walls around the screens black velvet frame will likely be white and there will sometimes be a lot of ambient light. I know this is not optimal but that is also why I want a light canon like the sx50 or sx60.

From what I have seen the DLP technology have been better at blocking the light outside the image (because of better black levels?) than the LCD technology, but what about LCOS? And what really happens when you put the SX60 (or sx50) in the 16:9 mode is it just deactivating a part of the pannel on the top and the bottom or is also blocking the light in those areas somehow?

/Yossy

You will still get some light coming off the unused portions because they are just switched off and not masked, much like my old HT1000. You may be able too make an external mask using card or something (to cut the halo above and below), but it will give a fuzzy edge since it is not on the same focal plane as the image. It will cut down a lot of the spill though, and with a black velvet frame it may be enough to hide what's left.

Gary

What do you think about using a anamorphic lens like this

http://www.panamorph.com/cygnus/Panamorph_Home.htm

Only $695 and it converts the 4:3 pannel to a 16:9 without decreasing the light output and with all the pixels active for a 16:9 image. Maybe you need an image scaler or run from a computer? If that is the case would it be so bad?

Do you think the lens would be tricky to install or look funny on the setup?

Yes that would be ideal IMHO. You can watch 4:3 in the center of the 16:9 portion for tv as well so that movies have more visual impact. I did have one for a while on my HT1000 and it removed the halo completely, so you will be using the full panel as a 16:9 pj.

They can be a little fiddly to set up, but once set, it's done. I'm using a lens on my 16:9 pj to convert it to 2.35:1 on a cinemascope screen, and although the lens may look a bit odd, I look at the movie and not the pj, so it doesn't matter to me. :)

Gary

Thanks for the info Gary. This is probably the way to go for me.

I wouldn't mind the 2.35:1 setup :)

but 16:9 will do.

Yossy

I haven't forgot Icon. I've just been so busy with work I haven't had a chance to fire it up. Haven't even hardly used my new HD-DVD player.

I'm sure I'll get to it today.

Ken

Ken, is there any way to display (stretch) the HD-DVD output to the full 4x3 panel on the SX50, via component? I have a Panamorph from my old FP that I haven't set up for my SX50, due to my Oppo being hooked up via DVI - which forces the SX50 into 16x9 mode. My HD cable box is hooked up to component, and I'm able to stretch to 4x3. If the HD-DVD player is able to fill the whole panel via component, I may go that route, and get some pixels back.

Thanks!
Art

Not without a 1080i to 1080p deinterlacer. I'm waiting on my Gennum based Anthem D2 upgrade and then I'll be able to properly deinterlace the 1080i to 1080p and send that to my Canon.

In the meantime the SX50 does a great job with 1080i as proven with test patterns from an Accupel generator.

HD-DVD at 1080i on the SX50 is extremely detailed and fluid. Not the slightest hint of blocking, breakup, banding or any typical digital nastiness. (The Toshiba player is also the best upsampling SD-DVD player I've owned)

Of course there are scenes with excessive film grain etc., but in general HD-DVD on the SX50 is awesome.

Ken

Not without a 1080i to 1080p deinterlacer. I'm waiting on my Gennum based Anthem D2 upgrade and then I'll be able to properly deinterlace the 1080i to 1080p and send that to my Canon.

In the meantime the SX50 does a great job with 1080i as proven with test patterns from an Accupel generator.

HD-DVD at 1080i on the SX50 is extremely detailed and fluid. Not the slightest hint of blocking, breakup, banding or any typical digital nastiness. (The Toshiba player is also the best upsampling SD-DVD player I've owned)

Of course there are scenes with excessive film grain etc., but in general HD-DVD on the SX50 is awesome.

Ken

Ken, thanks for the quick reply!

I'm kind of confused about the 1081i to 1080p conversion your wrote about though? My cable box sends a 1080i signal to the SX50 (over component), and I'm able to set the projector to 4x3. The DVI port to the SX50 locks it into 16x9. So you are saying that you can't put the SX50 into 4x3 mode via component with the HD-DVD player? Hmmm.

I really like the performance of my SX50, but part of the reason I bought a 4x3 projector, was I already had an Panamorph, and wanted to have greater than 1280x720 resolution. I sit very close to a large screen, and was not impressed by other 720p projectors I viewed at close range. The Canon looks great up close, but I'd love to squeeze some more out of it.

Art

The Toshiba player is also the best upsampling SD-DVD player I've owned.

Of course there are scenes with excessive film grain etc., but in general HD-DVD on the SX50 is awesome.
Ken

Ken - Thanks for the feedback on how the SX50 does with the Toshiba HDD unit. I'm "suffering' back in DLP XGA land till my SX60 gets here. Hopefully that will take place in a couple of weeks.

I too am pretty impressed with the Toshiba's output at 1080i even into my XGA Mistubishi DLP projector via HDMI/HDCP. I can only imagine how great the SX60 is going to be with the digital connection (If the two HDMI ports are compatible).

My Canon sales rep says he expects his SX6 possibly sometime next week. I'd like to see what a 3500 Lumen LCOS image looks like. I will try to talk him into lending it to me for a few hours or days. :)

Icon Master

The client that bought my demo SX50 did a really cool install. He has a recessed area on the far wall from the projector that is about 9' wide and 10' H. He painted it with Behr Silverscreen paint (Home Depot). He ceiling mounted the projector above and behind the wall above his sofa where it it shoots though an opening (like in a movie projecton booth) from the next room where it is suspended above a kitchen cabinet. Thus the projector is hidden from view.

He says folks come in and see this entire wall area lit up with the fine looking bright filmlike SX50 image and they keep lookiing around for the TV set or LCD panel. He was going to purchase a screen but he may keep it as is since it looks so cool.

Icon Master

it is suspended above a kitchen cabinet

Airborn scum from cooking getting on and into your optics is very nasty business. Make sure he has enclosed the PJ in some sort of filtered environment there.

BB

I'm wondering what kind of optical filter Canon is using on the SX60. It occurred to me that those of us with the SX50 might achieve similar result with an external filter if we could figure out which one to use.

Airborn scum from cooking getting on and into your optics is very nasty business. Make sure he has enclosed the PJ in some sort of filtered environment there.
BB

This guy is now divorced and does way more take-out than cooking at home. :) The ceiling in this kitchen are ten to twelve feet high and the projector is on the fringe of the kitchen. On top of that he is a very wealthy (millionaire plus) guy who will likely buy my demo SX60 next year if/when something new comes out. He just ordered a D2 system, Magneplanar(S?) speakers (because they are flat and unobtrusive), etc. So why didn't he go Ruby or "Q" you may ask? He likes the picture big and bright and having an absolute dark room to get absolute blacks on his screen is not what he wants. The brightness/high lumens of the Canon blew him away.

Icon Master

OK... All I can say is WOW!!!! This thing looks like a plasma..a 120" plasma..I am just blown away...I have had it for 6 days..and I am still grinning like an idiot :D :D The positives of this projector...and the sheer BEAUTY of the VIVID picture quality, so greatly offset any SMALL flaws..they are not even worth mentioning!!! ICON MASTER was right, THIS thing is in a class all by itself,,even at twice the price..One more thing...I have about a week left to swap it for the sx60...So if anybody has input about the performance between the two.PLEASE do so!!(I beleive the sx60 is officially released today,street) LCOS ,AISYS, CANON...a match made in heaven!!! P.S. Did anyone notice the sx50 has a 200watt bulb and the sx60 has a 180watt bulb? How does the brightness stay the same? Also what is advanced AISYS? Is it an upgrade over the "standard" AISYS ?

B&H is listing their SX-60s in stock

narrw,

I'd go for the HDCP support that the SX60 has. You'll need it for HD-DVD, Blu-ray, and most DVD and satellite sources over DVI/HDMI. Otherwise, you won't get all the resolution that the Canon is capable of showing.

Ken

I'm just hoping that this time next year Canon will have a 1080p successor to the SX60, native 9x16 and with higher CR, but still with the Lumens and very quiet!

narrw,

I'd go for the HDCP support that the SX60 has. You'll need it for HD-DVD, Blu-ray, and most DVD and satellite sources over DVI/HDMI. Otherwise, you won't get all the resolution that the Canon is capable of showing.

Ken
I am using the HP digital media center(Z555 model) as my main "source" I feed it thru the DVI output to the sx 50 , the nvidia 6600 card ouputs the native 1400x1050 resolution to the canon with STUNNING results!!I have a momitsu v880(pre oppo solution) but the HP Z555 dvd BLOWS it away. My main concern is the PQ between the two projectors..also double the CONTRAST :D .. My STB (motorola 6412 series III)will be connected to the HP via firewire to try to bypass the hdcp..otherwise I will have to find a switcher/stripper for that task..Yes the HDCP on the x60 IS nice(convenient) BUT the PQ between the two units is what I am hoping to get feedback on..If that makes sense....I'm sorry if I am rambling,,But this projector has EXCEEDED my expectations.. that is RARE these days...Please keep the feedback coming :D PS what is the best setup with this projector and a HTPC as far as settings go?

I'm just hoping that this time next year Canon will have a 1080p successor to the SX60, native 9x16 and with higher CR, but still with the Lumens and very quiet!

If only the SX60 is 16:9, my order would be in today, even at MSRP! The SX60 is everything I've been looking for my next projector, of course except it's a 4:3. Well, I'll have to wait another year, or more...

In a situation similar to many here (oddball rez means nothing to HTPC + Anamorphic lens).

I <almost> purchased a SX-50 last bulb change, but decided to stick with my old XGA DLP.

Questions/Points:
Sure I would prefer native 16:9 1080p, but nothing within my budget can touch the SX-60 (can it ?? <5K street).

I will be needing to upgrade soon, and I am holding out for those first reviews of the SX-60 to see if the PQ matches (exceeds) the SX-50 and the blob issue is solved. Are there any reviews up?

Once these questions are answered, I will know what to buy (the SX-60 or an HD72). I swore I would never buy a single chipper again, but unless there is some product I am missing, 720P DLP is about the best I can do with my pennies if the SX-60 has some unforeseen dealbreaker.

Sure I would prefer native 16:9 1080p, but nothing within my budget can touch the SX-60 (can it ?? <5K street).

I will be needing to upgrade soon, and I am holding out for those first reviews of the SX-60 to see if the PQ matches (exceeds) the SX-50 and the blob issue is solved. Are there any reviews up?


I had a conversation with the lead Canon projector tech guy Friday. I asked him when Canon will do a true 16:9 unit? He said once you see the SX60 in Cinema mode, that will be a moot point. He said the unit measures 88% brightness uniformity and has 1000 lumens in cinema mode. He said the $500 bulb is rated at 4000 hours in cinema mode. I said wow! Of course (and this will make Darin happy) at 1000 lumens the room needs to be very dark but you will get 2000:1 CR on an active image. I countered that DLP's do CR better. His reply is that while DLP does great white and black blacks they don't do the midtone colors and grey scale anywhere near as well as the SX60 and probably the other Canon LCOS based units.

Look at how overwhelmed this forum is with the Ruby. Well gang that is LCOS. It is a higher resolution but lower lumen LCOS unit than any LCOS Canon and yet many folks here can do nothing but fixate about their Ruby's. DLP will only be good (maybe) when three DMD units come out at reasonable prices. For now the choice is big, expensive dim LCOS/SXRD Ruby or brighter, lower cost LCOS based Canon projectors. The other 16:9 HT units are expensive or dim or both. I used my Canon for six months and sold it at a slight loss. Regardless of what others think, that is not going to happen with Ruby's so the Canon units by far will be better investments and I'll still bet that a side by side between a Ruby and an SX50 or SX60 would reveal that the Ruby is not worth twice the cost of either Canon unit. And then there is the Canon SX6 with 3500 lumens for you super lumen, huge screen gluttons. I don't think any amount of tweaking on the Ruby will get it near the SX 6 or SX50/60's lumen output. Sorry Darin. :)

I cannot say that we will see a true 16:9 unit from Canon soon, or a year from now if ever. I wouldn't hold my breath and be waiting for one to come out. Their 4:3 units will do you just fine as you have seen from previous and recent testimonials (and no I did not write them) above.


Icon Master

His reply is that while DLP does great white and black blacks they don't do the midtone colors and grey scale anywhere near as well as the SX60 and probably the other Canon LCOS based units. Icon Master

Not sure what he means by that - all the DLPs I've calibrated have given a pretty flat greyscale at D65, and the gamuts have been excellent except with green which is a little toward yellow on some. That just means a 100% saturated green will be better on a pj that has green at the system target. If he means the Canon has a greater colour gamut than the system requires, it can result in over saturated cartoony looking colours which isn't necessarily a good thing.

Does it have a 16:9 mode? I used to have an NEC HT1000 which was 4:3 with a 16:9 mode and that was useful as a digital lens shift, so being 4:3 isn't necessarily a bad thing provided the unused portion isn't visible.

Gary

I cannot say that we will see a true 16:9 unit from Canon soon, or a year from now if ever. I wouldn't hold my breath and be waiting for one to come out. Their 4:3 units will do you just fine as you have seen from previous and recent testimonials (and no I did not write them) above.
Icon Master

I'm sorry to hear that. Canon is really alienating a lot of potential consumers by having just 4:3 projectors. Just imagine if the SX50/S60 is a 16:9 LCOS projector. It would rule this message board instead of the Ruby. Come on, it's 2006 now. Projecting a 4:3 for a home theater seems so, well 80's. No wonder so many consumers know about Canon projectors. JMHO.

I'm sorry to hear that. Canon is really alienating a lot of potential consumers by having just 4:3 projectors. Just imagine if the SX50/S60 is a 16:9 LCOS projector. It would rule this message board instead of the Ruby. Come on, it's 2006 now. Projecting a 4:3 for a home theater seems so, well 80's. No wonder so many consumers know about Canon projectors. JMHO.

You obviously have not seen an LCOS based Canon projector. You are missing the point that its 4:3 1400x1050 resolution is so high that it produces a true 720P 16:9 as a subset of its 4:3 image and it does so with more lumens and zero screen door better than any other unit out there in the $10K and below price range. So reserve judgement on Canon till you see on first hand.

We can debate the merits of needing 16:9 1080p today, but the units that do it cost way more and the images they produce are marginally "better" if at all. The Canon gives a true 720P and as a benefit (and not a detriment) you also get a full 4:3 that lets you watch SD TV and old movies that were produced in 4:3 format in a full screen and not tiny letterboxed or stretched/distorted format. Stop having that snobbish attitude toward 4:3 when in this case it is a bonafied feature.

Icon Master

As long as you have masking 4:3 is fine. I too was concerned about the 4:3 when I bought my SX50 over a year ago and even spent $$ on a anamorphic lens. The 4:3 has not been a problem as you can still get 788 lines in the vertical if you have the right scalar for 16:9 material (ie. better than 720p). The lens on the canon is so good that the slight added distortion, brightness & contrast loss with an anamorphic lens means I dont bother with the anamorphic lens anymore.

Although if I was buying new again I'd go for a 16:9 device if everything else was equal. I'm still waiting on a high lumens, high contrast, 16:9 1080 LCOS projector at below $10K before replacing the SX50, and it looks like I'll be using my SX50 for a while yet!

Regards,
Dean

I couldn't agree more.

I bought my SX50 a year ago and it continues to impress.

We have a 24' throw onto a 140"x78" Screen Research CP2 with no anamorphic lens in line.

Even blowning up the image that big, my wife comments every week on how great the picture looks watching LOST and SOPRANOS in HD.

Anybody here know of anyone offering decent trade up deals, SX50 to SX60?

I can afford it, think I'd like to do it.

Anybody here know of anyone offering decent trade up deals, SX50 to SX60?
I can afford it, think I'd like to do it.

Tried e-bay?

Got the word today that the SX60 will begin shipping here in the USA next week. Perhaps I'll have mine by weekend and then can give you guys one of my highly touted, objective Canon hands-on previews. ;) I know the low lumen Ruby crowd cannot wait to hear this report. Now I could get one of those "chicken" Ruby owners to bring one down to New Orleans for a side-by-side shootout...

Oh yes, I keep forgetting that they are a snooty, if it isn't 16:9 it isn't a real HT unit, bunch. (That is a convenient "rock" to hide behind.) Of course to us SX50 owners, if it doesn't do 1500 lumens, it's a pop gun toy of a projector. I am still waiting to hear a good answer from some Ruby expert as to where the 400 watts, used by the Ruby's lamp, goes. It certainly isn't into lumen output. The SX60's new 4000 hour lamp ($500) is a mere 175 watts and we are talking 2500 lumens or so. We are talking small, light and efficient versus big, heavy and highly inefficient. Yes, I know, the Ruby has .5 million more pixels. Can that account for it being 42 pounds to the Canons 10 and for it being thrice the size and it putting out 1/3rd the lumens using more than twice the power?

Yes, I do love to bash the Ruby because, well frankly, it could be so much better, brighter and "cheaper." Sony charges $4500 or so for its 60" rear projection 1080 SXRD TV sets and they are charging $10K for that big old Ruby. While Canon units aren't 1080 yet, they sure are way more bang for the buck.

Other than the dust blob issue, is anyone here in the SX50 owners club an unhappy camper?

Icon Master

Yes, I do love to bash the Ruby

No, really???? :D

Well, I gotta send mine in for the dust fix first. Planning on doing that in July when we're gone for 3 weeks. After that, might try eBay.

Does the SX60 use a different lamp than the SX50?

Looking forward to your review. Suggest you start a new thread, this one is long in the tooth.

Icon,

I'll be anxious to hear the color of black and the status of the blue halo with and without the filter.

If there is much of a lumen hit, I'll probably only use Cinema mode only at night in the dark.

So I guess I want to know how many lumens the higher CR will cost me.

Not sure if I'll upgrade or not. I'm happy with my SX50 and may hold out for a 1080P 1 chip dlp if they can get the lumens up high enough.

Also the Pearl might be a contender as well. The Cinetron sounds like a non-starter so far.

Ken

Icon,
I'll be anxious to hear the color of black and the status of the blue halo with and without the filter.
If there is much of a lumen hit, I'll probably only use Cinema mode only at night in the dark.
Also the Pearl might be a contender as well. The Cinetron sounds like a non-starter so far.
Ken

My SX60 is supposed to ship in the next day or two. Contrary to their web sites none of the mailorder firms actually have them in stock and several have the price misquoted. The SX60's MAP is $4999.

The latest info I have is that with the cinema 2000:1 CR filter in place there will be 1000 lumens on the screen in the 16:9 area. If that is correct or close then we are still way ahead of the Ruby or any HT unit on the horizon in single DLP plus you will still have the versatility of the 4:3 2500 lumen mode for SD and 1500 to 2000 lumens for the HiDef broadcast sporting events like NFL, NBA, Final 4, Kentucky Derby,... and of course all the regular nightly HiDef network shows. (BTW, I have been told by my TV station clients that these are all being encoded and broadcast iin 720p and not 1080 anything.)

To those that keep supporting those low lumen projectors - what is wrong with you? Are you really cave men at heart? When I have my buddies over to watch ball games, I am not inclined to have them running about it absolute darkness tripping over the furniture and spilling drinks and food on the carpet. Do caves have carpet? :)

Anyway running the SX60's lamp in the cinema, low power mode Canon is quoting 4000 hours bulb life. Again eat your hearts out Ruby and "Q" owners while you are cleaning up the spilled drinks in your "caves" and special ordering your $1000/$3000 lamps every 500 to 1000 hours.

Ken - Once I get it in place on my ceiling bracket, you are welcome to come to New Orleans for a first hand look at the unit. You can bring your tools and toys and measure away. Darin can bring his souped up 551 lumen Ruby too for a side by side comparison if he dares, but so far the Ruby owners are too "chicken" (as in "Back to the Future") to show their faces wherever there is a Canon Realsis unit nearby. Darin might have to bring some black out drapes too if we do daytime testing since my HT room is not hermetically sealed.

Icon Master

"my HT room is not hermetically sealed."// IconMaster
...................

:):) OK, you won me over on that one...super funny !!

I'm wondering what kind of optical filter Canon is using on the SX60. It occurred to me that those of us with the SX50 might achieve similar result with an external filter if we could figure out which one to use.

Dan -

I just got word my SX60 shipped and there is a chance I might even get it this Saturday. You come on over/up to New Orleans and bring an x-ray spectrum analyzer and figure out what that filter is but I ain't opening up the unit and letting the dust blobs get in.

If someone wants to open an Official SX60 thread, I'll let you have the honor. I have alienated so many of the thin skinned "16:9 or die" and Ruby and "Q" owners with my "unbiased" Canon posts, they have black listed me. (I am so sad for those cave dwellers. They spend so much time in dark "sealed" caves, it is no wonder they turn away from bright lights when someone has a unit that is 1500 lumens or more.). However, I don't want any of them to miss what others say about the SX60 when they begin to ship in quantity.

Time for a mini review;

SX60 - $5K list, $500 Bulb, 4000 hours, 1000 to 2500 lumens, 2000:1 or 1000:1 CR, 16:9 and 4:3, No Screen Door 720P, HDMI/HDCP, 10 pounds

Ruby - $10K list, $1000 bulb, 1000 hours, 400 to 800 lumens, 4000:1 to 1500:1 CR, 16:9, No Screen Door 1080p, HDMI/HDCP, 42 pounds

Qualia - $30K list, $3000 bulb, 1000 hours, 900 lumens*, 3000:1 to 1100:1 CR*, 16:9, No Screen Door 1080p, HDMI/HDCP, 80 pounds

*(German test report)

Icon Master
(Soon to be rejoining the ranks of LCOS)

Icon,
Also the Pearl might be a contender as well. The Cinetron sounds like a non-starter so far.


Ken - And even if it does ship, who will fix the Cinetron when it has problems and will the company/product survive? There are too many uncertainties to put serious bucks into an unknown entry like that.

I missed posts about the "Pearl." What is that unit based on and who makes it?

Icon Master

The Pearl is the rumored new Sony SXRD projector aimed at the $5k territory.

Rumors say 1080P with UHP bulb. Could be nice. Too little is known right now.

I hope the SX60 has a neutral black and a low street price.

Ken

How about we start the "official SX60" thread once the first units get in and are evaluated.
Looks like Icon Master will have the honours.

The Pearl is the rumored new Sony SXRD projector aimed at the $5k territory.
Rumors say 1080P with UHP bulb. Could be nice. Too little is known right now.
I hope the SX60 has a neutral black and a low street price.
Ken

Pearl, Smirl - don't hold your breath for that being "the one." If Sony's $30K "Q" is an alleged 1000 lumens, and the Ruby is (over) rated at 800 lumens then there is no way their rumored $5K product is going to have higher lumens unless they license AISYS from Canon and then what would be the point of their other two products?

To those throwing their money away on the low lumen Sony's which can barely light up a six foot screen, although this doesn't quite belong here - yet it does for purposes of comparison, there is another LCOS based alternative shipping in June you should consider that will save you plenty of money and you can even have a candle or two on in your HT room too. Check out the 1080p, 70" HD-ILA JVC model HD70FN97 which lists for $5.5K. We Canon fans like big screens, bright images but you Sony fans obviously are willing to accept small and dim except when viewing in absolute dark "bat caves" and using super reflective screens which have their drawbacks. So instead of tossing $10K or $30K at Sony accept your small screen fate and get a 70" JVC unit if you must have LCOS and 1080p. I have posted the 2006 JVC press release info below. This makes far more sense than spending 80% of your time tweaking your Ruby to get 20 more lumens out of it. You'll get a lot more bang for your bucks with the JVC product. Read the specs and features and you will further see how Sony is yanking you around with their overpriced, under-lumened forward projectors.

Canon is trying to get their dealers to hold the price on the Realis unit at the MAP price of $4999. I suppose we'll see discounts from that but their dealers could get in trouble with Canon if they make this an open practice. The other thing you have to watch out for is if an overseas unit is sold here in the USA it will not be warranted by Canon USA. Vice-versa is true too. So buyers beware and purchase units from Canon authorized dealers in your own country.

Icon Master
===================================================

JVC SPECS:
Description: For 2006, JVC’s 1080p line includes sets in 56-, 61- and 70-inch screen sizes. All three models – the HD-56FN97, HD-61FN97 and the HD-70FN97 – use a native 1080p D-ILA device, a 0.7-inch 1920 x 1080 chip, or more than 2 million pixels per chip. Outstanding image quality of both standard and high definition signals is ensured through the use of a new optical engine with a new dynamic auto iris that responds to scene content to provide optimum black levels and accurate gradation in dark scenes. The sets also employ JVC’s Genessa 32-bit CPU video processing, incorporating the fifth generation of JVC’s D.I.S.T. (Digital Image Scaling Technology). D.I.S.T. seamlessly up-scales any video source to display at full high definition 1080p. Standard definition signals are improved through better IP conversion, improved scaler performance and a new PLL system that improves the performance of a composite signal.

D.I.S.T. also includes a Digital Noise Suppressor that detects and eliminates “block noise”, a Mosquito Noise Suppressor that eliminates noise without degrading the image, and a 3D Y/C comb filter with DTV Cross Color Eliminator that uses an advanced 10-bit 3D Y/C separation process to eliminate cross color and dot interference that is imbedded in older source material.

Each also includes a new ATSC/DRC/QAM/NTSC tuning system, two IEEE 1394 inputs, two HDMI inputs, two component inputs, PC input, and an AV output. All feature a silver cabinet with black bezel, and the 56- and 61-inch models feature the redesigned, thin frame cabinet.

In addition, the audio performance of new HD-ILA TVs is improved through the use of MaxxBass®, digital signal processing that extends the perceived bass performance, and a built-in parametric equalizer for more accurate frequency response.
Features

Specifications

Screen Size: 70 in
Television Type: DLP or DILA Projection HDTV
Flat Screen: Yes
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 Wide Screen
Audio: Noise Reduction;Stereo;Surround Sound
Closed Caption: Yes
Comb Filter (Separation Circuit): 3D Y/C Comb Filter
On Screen Display (OSD): Yes
Multi-Language On-Screen Menu: Yes
V-Chip: Yes
Color Temperature Control: Yes
Cinema Mode: Yes
Picture-in/on-Picture (PIP) (POP): Twin Screen/Index/Freeze
Audio Output Wattage: 20
Remote Control Type: Lighted Universal Remote Control
Input Connections: 1 PC Input: D-Sub 15-pin;2 IEEE 1394 (also FireWire, i.LINK, or DTVLink);1 RF Input (Coaxial RF Input);2 HDMI Digital Input;2 S-Video Inputs;2 Component Video Input
Other Specific Inputs: Smart Input
Output Connections: 1 A/V Rear Output;1 Dolby Digital Output
Internal ATSC Tuner/Decoder (Built-in HDTV Tuner): Yes
Display Format Capability: 1080p
Highlights

* 1080P Three Chip D-ILA
* Dynamic Iris
* EL Illuminated Remote Control
* DCR/Cable Card
* Dual i-Link
* Black Cabinet with Aluminum Center Panel
* Voice Enhancer
* Parametric Equalizer

New for 2006:

* Maxx Bass

Picture Performance

* 5th Generation D.I.S.T. with Geneva 32 bit CPU
* Natural Cinema
* Five Video Status Settings
* EZ Fill

Tuner

* ATSC/DNR/QAM/NTSC

Sound Quality

* 20 Watt Audio
* Advanced Hyper Surround +

Connections

* Smart Input
* Dual HDMI Input
* 2 Component Input
* 2 S-Video
* PC Input
* Digital Audio Out
* A/V Out

Convenience

* Twin Screen/Index/Freeze
* XDS ID
* Interactive Plug In Menu
* Smart Sound & Caption Channel & Input Label
* Auto Shut Off
* MultiMulti-Function Timer
* Half Tone Trilingual OSD
* Volume Limit/Turn On Volume Memory

"my HT room is not hermetically sealed."// IconMaster
...................
:):) OK, you won me over on that one...super funny !!

Jimmy -

You won me over too! Finally someone else here has a sense of humor and knows how to laugh at the foolishness of our unobtainable pursuit here for a perfect image home theater system regardless of what it takes like hermetically sealed rooms, or black ceilings-walls-carpets, or spending $30K on a two year useable projector that barely puts out enough lumens to compete with a six foot LCD or rear projection TV set (see above) that costs one-sixth the price. Some folks here have lost all perspective and absolutely cannot laugh at themselves.

Icon Master

Where are you SX50 guys - on vacation? We need to hear from you too. It is still a great projector and you guys need to crow about it. I asked the question in the SX60 thread -

"Have any SX50 owners changed their original lamp yet and/or has your lumen output fallen off any if at all?"

I cannot deny it. This is a bit of a "swipe" at our fellow LCOS fans, the Ruby folks, with their expensive, fast fading "bulbs."

Chime in SX50 guys.

Icon Master

Still 'Crowing'

I read Icon's post on the SX60 thread and never replied, so I will here since it's more fitting anyway.

He wanted me to check the 'meter' for the life of the bulb in my SX50; it's just a hair over the 1/4 mark, and as I mentioned, I have the bulb set on full brightness, and still no sign of dimming.

I'm not sure what kind of movie screen I have. I believe it was from a school auditorium or a place like that perhaps maybe even a smaller movie theatre. I got it from a yard sale used. It was originally 20 feet long, I had to trim it down to just under 13 feet to fit 'comfortably' and astatically in my living room. We have a rope and we pull it to roll the screen up to the ceiling when not in use. About its 'reflectivity' I have no idea. As I mentioned, I like a brighter picture, and with the image being spread out to just over 12 feet, the light is dispersed over a broader area, requiring a little more brightness.

I'm too busy watching movies on mine to crow about it. Still working great though I do need to get it in for the dust fix. Interestingly, I got a couple of minor blobs early on but none since then. LOVE the color, contrast is just fine, at this point it certainly gives every indication of reliability. Continue to be very happy with the combination of the SX50 on low lamp and the moderate gain/contrast enhancement of the Firehawk screen.

I had dust blobs on mine too. I sent it away and Canon replaced the 'optical block' and since I got it back - no dust blobs at all! I got used to them when I had them, but it was a real treat to get it back nice and clean. It's like the SDE with my former Canon LV-X1, you get used to the screen door, but it's a thousand times nicer without it.

Not sure if this the right thread to post in, but here goes... I've been trying to find posts discussing the Canon Realis X600. It's an XGA with (of course) a lower rez of 1024 x 768. I'm considering this for budget reasons. It's simply a fair bit less $$$ than the X50 or X60. For what it's worth, the ANSI lumens are 3500. I'm just guessing that it would be a good choice in an HT setting, because of it's lack of screen door effect.

Would anyone care to comment on the X600's use as a home theater projector? Has anyone seen it in action? Any replies are certainly appreciated. Thanks.

-Mike

I glanced at the 600 at Infocomm. I would pass and get something else. You could see the screen door easier on it than the others. Some 50s have been on the bay recently for cheap, you might want to go that route if price is a concern. You may want to wait for Cedia. The Panny 1080p should be between $2500 and $3500.

Ericglo

I glanced at the 600 at Infocomm. I would pass and get something else. You could see the screen door easier on it than the others. Some 50s have been on the bay recently for cheap, you might want to go that route if price is a concern. You may want to wait for Cedia. The Panny 1080p should be between $2500 and $3500.
Ericglo

Ericglo -

What you failed to point out is the lumens of the forthcoming Panny 1080p. A used, dust blob free SX50 would be a very good choice too at its 2000 lumen rating. The Panny will have maybe 500 to 1000 lumens? So depending on how big and bright an image you want along with the ambient lighting in the room - these need to be factored into the projector choice. 3500 lumens could actually be too bright unless you have a twelve foot or larger screen.

Icon Master

First off, I would like to thank all those who have posted in this thread and shared info and experience. It was this info which helped me to decide to get an SX50. I just got a used one (off eBay about for about 2K) and thought I would share my experience (not that more info is needed at this point....). First off please take my two cents with the grain of salt that this is my first HT projector and I have only seen a few others (Panny AE700 and Hitachi TX100) and I am no videofile. I thought these projectors look good but I don't think I would have been happy with them. Anyway, I hooked my used SX50 to a new oppo and was very impressed with the big (96" 16:9 ) and bright image that felt like a large plasma only smoother. I am a very happy camper with this combo (Return of the Sith looked awesome). I will say, I don't know how folks could use this without creating a light blocking "cutout" to stop the "halo". I don't have a dedicated room and the extra light outside the screen was very noticeable on my light coloured walls. With the cutout in place it looks fantastic.

On the down sides.
1. As others have reported I do have two small dust blobs that I can only see on a all uniform colour screen (and I can't detect it during normal viewing).
2. I have a small (say 20 or so pixels in size) blob in the lower right corner of the screen that shows up as a green when background in that area is white. (maybe a dust blob blocking red and blue?) It is rarely noticeable and would not likely be seen by "regular" guests unless pointed out to them
3. Dark scenes are a little to dark and bright scenes are a little to bright (keep in mind I have done nothing to calibrate this except use low lamp/cinema mode)
I may eventually try and get dust blobs fixed but I expect to have trouble as I don't have a receipt and this unit came from the US and I am in Canada (hmm wonder what Canon's policy on this will be...)

Two questions.
1 I am in the process of building a HTPC and will likely get at videocard that supports HDCP (to play back HD / Blue Ray discs when the players for PC's finally become available) would like to know how to deal with the HDCP issue. I remember reading that there was a black box or something to solve this problem. If anyone could point me in the right direction (or pm me) I would really appreciate it.
2. For those who are using this with the Oppo what settings have you decided on (720p or 1080i), and what if any adjustments have you made to help black levels and CR.

Thanks all
Kris

Hi Kris,

To set the white and black levels correctly you will need a test disk like Avia or DVE, but if you have Star Wars A New Hope, you can use the THX Optimode on that disk and that will set them accurately too. Doing that will also help you optomise your contrast and black level.

I intend on doing the same as you regarding HTPC and just add an HD-DVD rom drive to my existing HTPC, but apparently there's a bit more too it than that and we may need to get an HDCP compliant motherboard as that component is also part of the data route, so it might be better to wait a little while before building a killer system for HD DVDs or Blu Ray. In the mean time you could build a simple system for plain DVD playback.

Gary

Northern, what you are looking for is called a distribution amp. I asked the same question about a year ago hence the name Blackbox. They"re available online from Digital Connection (part # DD-D12P) and possibly from other places as well. It works fine.
Good Luck.
Blackbox

Northern, I don't know how to send you a private message, even though I was able to open yours. Mine works fine with my sx-50, but you better call DC and make sure the specs haven't changed on the box. Good luck
Blkbox

need some help... we got our sx50 ceiling mounted with a hdmi cable ran too it.. converted to dvi too the projector...

we were gonna use a reciever that would convert everything to hdmi, thus, we would only have to run a single cable... We were thinking jvc 402/yamaha v1600... however, both of these, and apparently all recievers that do this conversion... don't function properly with non-hdcp devices...

is there any way to feed all our different video inputs through that single hdmi cable... or are we going to have to snake a 30ft component up there... it will be a huge ordeal to snake this cable, so any solutions under 2000 dollars or so, would be appreciated :)

p.s. we set up the sx50 with just a hd satellite feed... looks pretty good too me, movies are a bit lacking in contrast, but sports look awesome, the brightness IMO makes up for the contrast as you can leave some ambient light on, and it still looks pretty darn good

need some help... we got our sx50 ceiling mounted with a hdmi cable ran too it.. converted to dvi too the projector...

we were gonna use a reciever that would convert everything to hdmi, thus, we would only have to run a single cable... We were thinking jvc 402/yamaha v1600... however, both of these, and apparently all recievers that do this conversion... don't function properly with non-hdcp devices...

is there any way to feed all our different video inputs through that single hdmi cable... or are we going to have to snake a 30ft component up there... it will be a huge ordeal to snake this cable, so any solutions under 2000 dollars or so, would be appreciated :)

p.s. we set up the sx50 with just a hd satellite feed... looks pretty good too me, movies are a bit lacking in contrast, but sports look awesome, the brightness IMO makes up for the contrast as you can leave some ambient light on, and it still looks pretty darn good

Been awhile since I posted here but I am having the same problem. I have component cables run thru a long VGA cable to the projector on the celing. I have been enjoying HD content thru my Zektor componet switch box. Well I puchased a Zektor DVI switch box to get ready for the HD-DVD and Blue Ray HDMI stuff. I already had a HDMI output from my cable box but never tried it until I switched everything over to DVI. I have a long DVI cable DVI-D I beleave (no pins around the flat pin but all the others) running to the projector. I puchased some HDMI to DVI cables and hooked everything up. Well. My cable box will not work. I get a pic for about a second sometimes but it drops. I hooked my standard TV up to it and it had some kind of HDMI error. My HD-DVD player would show the setup menu thru HDMI but when I tried to play anything thru HDMI I would get a HDMI ERROR 1 error. I installed the new firmware update 1.4 and still will not work. So I am stuck with about $5000.00 dollors worth of equipment that will be obsolete in a few years. I tried all the restarting with this and that on but cant get it to work.
Who has a Toshiba HD-A1SN player been able to get HDMI to work with this Projector?

When I puchased a HD-DVD player the main reason was to upconvert my current DVDs. I have just given up on all this. Maybe in about 10 years when they get all this straight and I can puchase everything at Walmart I might look into it again.

Check with digitalconnection. They have/had a Dtrovision box that fixes up the SX50's HDCP problems. Not ideal, but it works.

I use it for my cable box and all DVD players including they Toshiba HD-DVD player.

Ken

how does it fix the hdcp problems...


the 50 doesn't have hdcp to fix ?


we sent our 50 back, getting a sx60... hopefully it will work
*prays*

Check with digitalconnection. They have/had a Dtrovision box that fixes up the SX50's HDCP problems. Not ideal, but it works.

I use it for my cable box and all DVD players including they Toshiba HD-DVD player.

Ken
I have the Zektor DVI switch box that is suppost to be hdcp compliant. Your HDMI/DVI cable does it have all the pins on the DVI side including the four pins around the flat pin?

we sent our 50 back, getting a sx60... hopefully it will work
*prays*

The SX60 works fine with the HDMI/HDCP Toshiba HD DVD player without the need for an external "box." It is much quieter too and no dust blobs or lamp droo-iff either. Both the SX50 and SX60 are great projectors for the money. Enjoy!

Icon Master

Hello guys, I am new to the projector world, just got one three days ago used from a friend. I have got two questions.

1. I found a ceiling mount for the SX-50, but they run $999.99 USD! So I decided to build my own. Now when mounted from the ceiling, the projector shoots far too high, and I noticed that there are "ceiling mount settings" in the menu that will turn the image upside down. The rack that I made is very open concept, and made out of thin wood. The only part of the projector touching the mount was the TOP of the projector (since it has been turned upside down). The airflow of the fans and the vents on the bottom and side of the unit were very open. I watched a movie on the projector the first day I had it, just sitting upright normally on the floor, with no troubles at all. I am not sure if it is just a coincedence, but I went to have dinner after using the projector for 30 minutes in its new mount, turned off the machine, when i came back 20 min later and went to turn the unit on, I heard a few clicking noises and it threw me a Burnt Bulb code. The bulb life meter was lets say, 20% used, but the manual says that could mean up to 1000 hours, also the picture quality was very crisp and bright (ive seen projectors with bulbs that need replacing, they are very dull in color and brightness) My question, is this just a coincedence and the bulb was nearing the end of its lifespan, or did running the projector upside down cause the bulb to burn prematurely? I would think if turning the projector upside down, if it did heat up, it would throw an "abnormal temperature" code and shut itself down before the bulb blew from the heat?


2. I am in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. The cheapest i have found a replacement bulb for this Projector is $400 USD. I am wondering if anyone knows of a place locally or even online to find a better price for a replacement.

Thanks in advance guys, any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

... did running the projector upside down cause the bulb to burn prematurely?
If the projector was being used right side up before, then turning it up-side-down would change the arc of the bulb, but this should not bring about near immediate burnout; i.e. it should only have reduced its expected lifespan. If your mount is allowing for proper cooling, then you could probably write up its passing to coincidence.

Welcome to the thread Shock2929 and the world of projectors!

My guess to your light bulb issue; your projector went through some out-of-the-ordinary circumstances, being handled (even if mildly) and bumped until positioned to where you want it. The 'jarring' very likely put some 'cold hours' on the very fragile bulb. My SX50 is in a rather confined area, in a bookshelf, without an added 4" fan mounted above the projector, my SX50 would overheat. It did when I first installed the projector and didn't have any fan over it.. I got a message briefly and then it shut itself off. No problems since I put the fan in!
The 'thermostat' works as it should. Yes, could be as you and Rual GS say, just coincidence.

"the picture quality was very crisp and bright"

Congrats on your projector! you will definitely enjoy it! The price of a new bulb will still be very worth it. Watch out for those who insist you are not seeing a nice picture unless your lumens are so much and contrast is over blah blah blah. They also insist you need meters, mathematics, so much light in your room, ect. They are like a bunch of bickering ol' ladies. If meters and electronics tells you your picture isn't very good, don't invite them back!! My eyes enjoy it greatly, that's what matters!!!

Yah, that may very well be. I did not give it any serious jolts, but i was moving it around quite a bit, so who knows. So long story short, for example, if i run the projector upside down, with lots of clearence everywhere except for the top of the sx50 (because its sitting on a shelf), the bulb should last about the same time as running it right side up? I only ask because i notice that all of the proper mounting brackets that i have seen for this projector mount to the bottom of the unit, and hold it upside down, meaning that the top of the unit (facing down) is not in contact with anything under it-

I don't believe there would be a problem with it up-sidedown. One of the SX50's options is to flip the picture so you could see the image correctly if the projector is mounted up-sidedown. So it appears they considered an up-sidedown mounting when they designed it, therefore should be fine. Likewise the mounts themselves are designed to hold projectors up-sidedown, so apparently it too, must be fine! There must be some people here who mount theirs up-sidedown. We'll probably hear from them. As long as air is free and plenty to cool things down all should be well.

Mine sits upside down on a mantle. (no mount, just sits on its top) Keeps it up out of the way. Works great, no problems.

Ken

Ok, thats good news! The only concern was that Id buy a new bulb after my "coincedence" and it would die again, just possibly concidering the heat, from having the top of the unit flush flat sitting on a surface. But it sounds like there are some others that run this set up. Again, anyone here bought a replacement lamp before? if so, from where, and how much did you pay?

-Trevor

shock2929

I'm not sure it's OK to post this. I'll remove it if I need to. You can get a bulb from here:
1-800-457-0889. It's where I got my SX50.

Shock, before you buy a new lamp, remove the 50 from its mount, turn it right side up and try it. Like you I made a mount out of plywood and hung it upsidedown and kept getting a faulty lamp cover signal. The mounting screws near the lamp cover pull on the case and cause enough stress to cause false malfunction signals. If this is the case you may have to fiddle with the screws to get it to work. Good luck.

Blkbox

It's been a while since anybody posted for the SX-50 so I figured I'll do a little something. Owning a 150 year-old farm house with the old country look poses a problem if it is equipped with new technology looking home-theatre equipment.
At this point everything is crude, but time (and money) will improve the blend.

First picture is the SX-50. I have a fan mounted above the projector since the area is quite crammy. The extra circulation must be doing the trick. It's been almost a year this way and the projector is still doing great.


Second: Cabinet Closed. Everything's hidden nicely.


With the camera positioned where the SX-50 lens is, the third photo shows the screen lowered to the 'widescreen' mode. For fullscreen, we just lower the ropes!



The screen is cut to 11 feet from left to right. Pole and top board are almost 13 feet. A very rough arrangement that will get better in time. But even as is we get a great and bright picture from the SX-50. Even the screen as it is, for now, adds to the 'rustic' look of the old farm house.

Hey guys, I'm kinda new to the home theater process (having just bought my first home, of course home theater is the biggest priority), and I appreciate everyone's posts, as they have helped substantially.

I'm sure everyone here will likely groan when reading a post from another newbie, but I've read through 25 pages of posts and burned out too many brain cells to keep track of what the best combination of components would be. I had pretty much decided on a SX50 before finding this forum so my question is in regard to the rest of the equipment. My primary use will be games & movies with occasional satellite use. Besides the SX50 and the OPPO OPDV971H DVD player, it seems another smart purchase would be a scaler. I'm leaning toward the Key Digital iSync HD, but I had originally planned on running everything through a Denon AVS-2807 receiver which supposedly has upconversion. Is it better to go with a different receiver (withough the upconversion) and keep the scaler? Is there a better option for the money than what I'm thinking of going with? I know everything here is personal opinion but I appreciate any feedback

PS. I can appreciate IconMaster being in New Orleans. I'm an insurance adjuster and I handled hundreds of flood claims in the Big Easy. Quite an experience to say the least.

While it may be expensive relative to price of the pj, you may want to look at a DVDO VP50. I think another member said the Canon didn't look good for gaming.

If you go with a scaler you are better off coupling that with the OPDV970H running in 480i mode. The scaler will do a better job creating the output best suited for your projector. I'm pretty happy with the DVDO VP30 despite it's bugs.

You may want to check out the forsale forum for deals as you figure out what you want.

I would gather then that DVDO is the better scaler company to go with whatever the model (VP30 or VP50). Then is it better to forego the Denon with upconvervsion and go with a good receiver to handle just the audio?

There is little to gain using a receiver with upconversion as it can't output the 1400x1050 resolution the Canon uses.