Since mine will be delivered shortly, and others already have theirs, I thought it timely to start a thread for setup reports, discussions, questions from those interested in the projector, etc.

I'll ask that there be NO fighting, biting or flaming here. I will ask Alan to delete offenders. Let's share our setup experiences and experiences with peripherals including scalers, satellite/cable, DVD, etc.

Thanks

Dan Houck

I'll be intererested to know how well, if anyone try's it, the sx50 works with a lense to convert it to 16/9. I was specifically thinking about the sx50 and the Prismasonic H500, and how well they might work together with my 110" 16 x 9 firehawk.

Rick

Rick, I have a prismasonic HT1000 lens with my SX50 using a PC as a source.

It certainly does convert it to 16/9, but I have noticed that there is no apparent increase in brightness (the internal losses seem to make up for compressing the full panel brightness into a smaller image) and the contrast ratio is affected (using the SX50 with a PC, a small white menu on one half of the screen will show a dim ghost image in the other half of the screen). There is also a noticeable decrease in sharpness when using a PC but not really detectable with film/video as these sources are so much softer than a PC display. You also get some chromatic abberation which is apparent with a PC display and slightly apparent with video/film.

I'm not saying the prismasonic is bad, in fact it is well engineered for its price, but that adding extra optics does degrade the signal. The optics on the SX50 are pretty good, apart from a slight bow in the top of the image, the covergence test is perfect. Another SX50 user Icon Master puts forward an argument (some might say quite a few!) that its better to just use the projector native and accept that some of the panel wont be used. I tend to agree, the anamorphic lens does not help that much.

I'd say try it without the lens first and see how you like it. The SX50 without an extra lens will work well on your firehawk if you are masking above and below the screen.

On the tuning topic, I have only tuned the SX50 with PC display calibration software and the SX50 comes up pretty well. However that is different to running mpeg calibration through the PC video player, VMR9 etc. Does anyone know of an mpeg download for calibration video that I can run to check video calibration?

Regards,
Dean

Rick, the projector should work fine with an anamorphic lens. Just remember that some of these lenses SHORTEN throw distance. I have elected to go with screen masking rather than a lens on my new setup (for now) for simplification and because I think the superior fill and greater number of pixels will compensate. I may change my mind after setup.

Dan

I've had alot of experience with the Gxx D-ilas, and would like some comments on shading issues with the SX-50.

Shading was generally a problem on the the Gxxs, but was fixable with Dilard or by wm.

It appears that at this point, whatever it is out of the box, it is. So how is it ?

- Chris

Thanks for the info about the sx50/anamorphic lens guys. I may just try it 1st without one as you suggested. Can always add one later. My wall behind the firehawk is completely blacked out with a very dark fabric so overscan wouldn't be an issue.

On a side note, anyone here familiar with using the sx50 and a DVI distribution amp which somehow is supposed to aid in decryption of a of HDCP/DVI signal? I am being told this from a vendor and I don't see how a dist. amp would change anything.

I haven't emailed AVS yet, but do they sell the canon?

Rick

speak with kei @ digital connection about the amp.

I checked with a distributor of mine and I can get it. However, I'm not sure what they are going for out there. I will check into it and post back.

On a side note, anyone here familiar with using the sx50 and a DVI distribution amp

Rick
This is what you want and it works perfectly. No AVS" open" forum q's please.
http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/ddd12p.asp

I have a question, my Mitsubishi XD300U just blew up, heard a pop and it shut down immediately, color wheel came apart. I figure it's about time for an upgrade anyway though I will probably get it repaired for a backup or sale. I think I've settled on the SX50, I've been lurking and reading the reports and the strengths far outweigh the shortcomings to me. I went to our local Fry's and saw one in action, fiddled with it for awhile but it had no source, I think it will work perfectly for what I want though.

I am probably like alot of people attracted to the projector, I use projectors in ambiant light for everything: hi-def cable TV, computer, movies and video games. With the lack of inputs and a good onboard scalar, I probably need to run it either through a scalar or through my HTPC, and I wonder what those who have or plan to purchase this are using in that regard and what is preferrable? Sounds like it's best to feed it it's native res, so what is the best way to approach that with a minimum of hassle? I want to tweak for a little while and then enjoy forever without much more thought.

and I wonder what those who have or plan to purchase this are using in that regard and what is preferrable? Sounds like it's best to feed it it's native res, so what is the best way to approach that with a minimum of hassle? I want to tweak for a little while and then enjoy forever without much more thought.
There are quite a few scalers available today, and most of the modern ones are very good, and generally quite plug-and-play. It's easier to pick them on features than on performance.

The point of a scaler is to feed it native res, so don't get a scaler that won't.

I'm going to feed mine native res once I get my DVDO VP 30 scaler, which also has the capability to adjust the frequency to native.

Dan

Has your Canon arrived yet Dan ?
I've been farting around today watching CNN about the huge hurricane and on AVS mainly hoping/waiting to hear your glee :).

Christmas has come early this year, eh? :)

Rick, I have a prismasonic HT1000 lens with my SX50 using a PC as a source.

It certainly does convert it to 16/9, but I have noticed that there is no apparent increase in brightness (the internal losses seem to make up for compressing the full panel brightness into a smaller image) and the contrast ratio is affected (using the SX50 with a PC, a small white menu on one half of the screen will show a dim ghost image in the other half of the screen). There is also a noticeable decrease in sharpness when using a PC but not really detectable with film/video as these sources are so much softer than a PC display. You also get some chromatic abberation which is apparent with a PC display and slightly apparent with video/film.

I'm not saying the prismasonic is bad, in fact it is well engineered for its price, but that adding extra optics does degrade the signal. The optics on the SX50 are pretty good, apart from a slight bow in the top of the image, the covergence test is perfect. Another SX50 user Icon Master puts forward an argument (some might say quite a few!) that its better to just use the projector native and accept that some of the panel wont be used. I tend to agree, the anamorphic lens does not help that much.

I'd say try it without the lens first and see how you like it. The SX50 without an extra lens will work well on your firehawk if you are masking above and below the screen.

On the tuning topic, I have only tuned the SX50 with PC display calibration software and the SX50 comes up pretty well. However that is different to running mpeg calibration through the PC video player, VMR9 etc. Does anyone know of an mpeg download for calibration video that I can run to check video calibration?

Regards,
Dean
Well, one's awareness of brightness is usually a non-linear condition. Doubling the brightness might not be interpreted by one's eyes+brain as being twice as bright. As such, I would imagine going from 1400x788 to 1400x1050 only increases the maximum brightness performance by 33% that a 10-20% loss due to additional optics would yeild the same results as you descibe.

I guess the trade-offs are buying an anamorphic lens vs. masking unused portions of the panel.

Jimmy and Carled, it's due to arrive today. :)

Dan

Dan,

Do you have any 48Hz or 72Hz sources to try with the SX50?

Not that I know of, Eric.

IT'S HERE! :)

Really small, compared to my last one.

Give me some time to hook it up and try both inputs. Remember, until I get my VP30, I'll be inputting XGA from my NRS and letting the projector scale it up.

Dan

Well its been about 5 min. How does it look? :)

This should be good, real good.

Ken

I'm deperately waiting for mine to come in today.
It was supposed to arrive Friday.... but to no avail....
I hope to contribute to this thread later on...

Remember, until I get my VP30, I'll be inputting XGA from my NRS and letting the projector scale it up.
The VP30 will be able to produce 48Hz or 72Hz.

OK, but I'm not planning on conducting experiments with my projector. I'm going to give it exactly what Canon specifies for native resolution. It should have no problem with the 60 hz output of the NRS, even though the spec is 60.02.

Have any SX50 owners tried 48Hz or 72Hz?

Dan,

Can you post the build date and serial number?
Also, is the firmware/rom version posted somewhere in the menu? I see how to get it with serial commands.

Oh yeah, and maybe a few comments on the picture :)

Thanks,
Ken

... I'd love to know if there are shading / uniformity issues, as in the JVC D-ilas.

Thanks,

- Chris

IT'S HERE! :)

Really small, compared to my last one.

Give me some time to hook it up and try both inputs. Remember, until I get my VP30, I'll be inputting XGA from my NRS and letting the projector scale it up.

Dan
You've got a copy of Avia/DVE, right Dan? You'll need to adjust the contrast and brightness levels a bit from their out-of-the-box levels. You can overdrive contrast a bit on it if you want the best black levels possible, but you'll crush shadow detail if you do so I wouldn't recommend it.

Use cinema mode, and pick the lamp setting that sounds best to you.

Look forward to hearing your results. Best of luck.

You've got a copy of Avia/DVE, right Dan? You'll need to adjust the contrast and brightness levels a bit from their out-of-the-box levels. You can overdrive contrast a bit on it if you want the best black levels possible, but you'll crush shadow detail if you do so I wouldn't recommend it.


How can the Contrast control change Black level or crush shadow detail ?

Carled, since I'll be inputting the XGA signal from my NRS, which port would you use. The DVI with RGB adapter or the RGB with component adapter? I have both cables since my old setup used two inputs. The RGB is what comes from the NRS but I can hook the component cables up to the NRS instead.

Dan

How can the Contrast control change Black level
Brightness control, sorry.

or crush shadow detail ?
If you lower the black level too much (yet still at a level that is correct according the the black level setup on the calibration discs) on the SX50 you'll notice that the bottom few bars of the grey ramp patterns on Avia/DVE disappear. When watching movies you just get a dark murkiness rather than shadow detail. Setting the black level a little higher can fix that.


Carled, since I'll be inputting the XGA signal from my NRS, which port would you use. The DVI with RGB adapter or the RGB with component adapter? I have both cables since my old setup used two inputs. The RGB is what comes from the NRS but I can hook the component cables up to the NRS instead
Use the DVI input. It probably won't matter much, but it's not like it would hurt.

OK people, I know you've all been waiting for. . . .

DAN'S PRELIMINARY REPORT ON THE CANON SX50 :)

First, please note this first report is using the component input only. I'm going to have to pick up an adapter to use the DVI/RGB port.

Setup into my system was an absolute snap. I raised the adjustable projector shelf on my projector stand, put back the 2" x 2" lift blocks I used on the other projector, and presto, the image was perfectly aligned on my screen with just a little fiddling with the right-hand rear adjustable foot. Manual focus and zoom are really easy to use but I can see that if I am not careful when putting the lens cap on, I'll change the focus as it is very easy to turn. Lens cap is sorta cheesy, pretty thin plastic.

For this first run, I was feeding the projector from my LG LST4200A OTA HDTV box. Serendipity smiled on me and it is Monday Night Football time.

First thing I did was turn the lamp down on low mode. Then I selected "Cinema" mode. It is definitely darker and more contrasty. I turned on Dynamic Gamma. Didn't see much difference with that.

Out of the box, the color was overdriving IMO and a tad too green. The main image adjustment menu is an absolute snap to use and it is easy to see how your changes affect the image as you make them. I lowered the color level 3 ticks and lowered the green tint two ticks. I lowered contrast most of the way and turned off sharpness. The color is really rich even after initial settings.

In a dark room the image was too bright. I selected the low lamp setting. Definitely improved the black. Still VERY bright.

I selected the widescreen setting and noticed the "black bars" got a little darker. But these were most drastically affected by the "cinema" setting. The screen masking I am adding will make this a total non issue IMO.

I set the image to slighly overlap the vellum-covered frame of my firehawk. However, this projector doesn't seem to have that "blue frame" that has been reported earlier. The boundary between the "black bars" and the image is sharp and straight with nothing added.

FYI, I am using a Firehawk screen. 106" diagonal 4:3.

Here are my impressions, compared to my previous Sanyo XP21N LCD.

NOISE: A lot quieter than the Sanyo! Where I have it sitting, above the seating and beyond, the noise is simply not an issue. It is low pitched and can hardly be heard from a few feet away. Exhaust is pretty hot, even on low lamp. Fortunately, my setup directs this away from the seating but if you had this projector on a table in front of you, you might find the exhaust heat bothersome.

IMAGE: No keystone or other distortion, as I was able to mount the projector completely level and centered. Focus and zoom are really easy to use, even if manual. The lens on this projector is clearly excellent! I noticed none of the "jaggies" that inputting the same signal (720P over component) into my Sanyo produced. HDTV image was MUCH smoother.

THROW: Perfect for my setup. The front of the lens is 16.5' from the screen and I have plenty of adjustment left.

LENS & BUILD: NO distortion. Clearly, Canon has brought their mastery of camera lens technology to this projector. The projector looks well built, nice trim appearance. Oh, and it filters out the ground loop problem I had before, no need for the cheater plug.

IMAGE QUALITY: Film like, if a little soft. It has been previously reported that inputting through the RGB/component port gave a softer image. I'll be trying the other port shortly. However, the projector synced up flawlessly to the 720P from the HDTV tuner. Image was the right size and perfectly centered with no distortion on top or bottom. Grays are much more detailed than I was used to with the Sanyo.

OVERALL IMPRESSION: WOW!! This is one heckuva projector for the under $4grand purchase price. It is much better IMO than the JVC SX21 that used the same panels. The image has far more punch and the "purple black" problem is virtually nonexistent once you tweak a little. The image is so smooth I see no reason to use an anamorphic lens with it, there are plenty of pixels to go around. My seating distance is nearly 2 screen widths and you have to get your face right on the screen to see any pixels.

Next up, hooking up the rest of the system. I'm going to run the output from the LG box as a pass through signal through the NRS and combine everything into one cable, the VGA cable, and see what happens. I'll have that report for you in the next day or two.

Dan

At 16.5' back from the screen, where did the projector end up in relation to the top or bottom of the screen?

Mine arrived today too.

Since mine arrived late in the afternoon today, I couldn't spend much time tweaking, especially since I promised my wife we would watch a film of her choice for the maiden voyage....

I opened it up, pluged it in, and fired it up.

I have a 24' throw and currently use a DIY 139"x78" 1.77 matte white screen. With this throw, the manual zoom on my Canon is not even set halfway to fill the screen. I connected my OPPO DVD player directly to the Canon via a 66' fibre optic DVI cable which I've simply thrown across the floor for now. I set the OPPO for a 720p output just to avoid any internal deinterlacing.

My ceiling mount hasn't arrived yet, so I table mounted it temporarily, tweaked the line up and keystone and started to play.

This little thing is bright...impressively bright... When I first turned it on, I had windows open with some sunlight filling the room, and I could still enjoy the opening space scene from Star Wars...and man, when you cut inside to that white hallway, the contast was so very impressive.

I agree with Dan that the colors are perhaps a bit overdriven out of the box, so I began to experiment a little bit in the time I could. I found that I enjoyed sRGB mode over CINEMA, PRESENTATION, or NORMAL, but I did put the lamp into QUIET mode, and set the scaler for FULLSCREEN. Additionally, I tweaked a little red and green.

I watched some scenes from STAR WARS, FIFTH ELEMENT SB, and INCREDIBLES. I have to say that the tweaks I did are pretty elementary and yet the output is quite impressive, and dare I say "film-like".

Showtime snuck up on me. Tweaktime was over when my wife wanted to watch HOTEL RWANDA (currently in the house from netflix!) and even though this DVD is no visual home theater showcase, I was so pleasantly surprised at the great display of detail, color and contrast throughout the film. Accolades to the cinematographer of course, but also to this little workhorse projector. I am so glad I went with the SX50 and not with a JVC SX21.

When the film was over and my wife went to bed, I tinkered a bit with some more DVDs. I watched a few scenes from BUGS LIFE, and RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, but I did no additional adjustments. I just sat back and enjoyed. That is supposed to be why I got it...

Then I decided to try to watch a little HD material from Comcast on my 5100 box. I moved the DVI cable from the OPPO to the Comcast box, but the projector had a very hard time syncing. I tried 720p and 1080i, 16x9 and 4x3 modes and sometimes I would see an HD image for a few seconds, but then the Canon defaulted to a black screen... weird...

Knowing that I wanted to post here, I got tired and called it a night. I'll have more time to play with it tomorrow, and if I find no solutions to the Comcast problem on my own (or from someone posting here), I'll call a Comcast tech to try and lend a hand.

More tomorrow

-Riz

Then I decided to try to watch a little HD material from Comcast on my 5100 box. I moved the DVI cable from the OPPO to the Comcast box, but the projector had a very hard time syncing. I tried 720p and 1080i, 16x9 and 4x3 modes and sometimes I would see an HD image for a few seconds, but then the Canon defaulted to a black screen... weird...
That'll be HDCP.

Does your Comcast box have analogue component outs?

Oh, and thanks for the review Riz.

Great prelim reviews guys!

Sounds like Canon is making running improvements, since the Blue-Black border is gone. The projector that I saw with the problem was built in March. (you didn't mention this Riz, does yours have it?)

Dan, theres no RGB->DVI-I adaptor shipped in the box?

Are either of you going to have your projector calibrated? I'd be curious to see how the sRGB setting measured.

I would also like to know where the projector wound up relative to the bottom of the screen. If I get this I'll most likely ceiling mount it on a back shelf about 16' from the screen.

Thanks,
Ken

Ken, centerline of lense is 6" above the bottom of the screen on my setup. Remember, mine is upright, not inverted. The RGB-DVI/I adapter has the wrong RGB end on it for my cable, female instead of male. (or maybe the other way around, I can never remember which is which).

One thing I noticed is how small the filter is. The manual emphasizes frequent filter cleaning. I will do mine weekly.

We don't really have anyone around here who can calibrate projectors. I'm pretty reluctant to ship it somewhere. These shipping companies are hardly gentle in their handling.

Riz, Ken is correct, your Comcast box problem is caused by HDCP. Interestingly, here they use the non-HDCP SA 3250HD. Hook it up via component to bypass the problem.

I haven't tried the RGBs setting yet. Will do so.

Rizman, where did you get your fibre optic cable? I'll need a 40' cable. Comments as to whether this can be copper or must be fibre optic seem to be mixed, so I'll go with fibre optic.

Dan

Dan,

You may want to look at Kei's dAMP and copper cable instead of fiber. The price may be comparable and she said that amp is a good driver as well as doing other things.

Dan, nice initial report. Can your plug the LG back in and compare 720P to 1080i for the output on the STB (LG)? I am curious as to which might be doing a better job at deinterlacing the HD for OTA channels that use 720P and again for 1080i OTA sources? I think Fox & ABC uses 720P and CBS & NBC uses 1080i.

Also, it is interesting you found the SX50 to be too bright even in cinema mode. This would be a good thing is you rent some calibration equipment and start buying color-correcting filters to maximize the contrast (if your goal is this). I wonder if WM is tweaking these units.

Ferret, I can try that with the LG, give me a little time. On the other display, the 720P was clearly the best setting. Remember, it has been widely reported the deinterlacing in the Canon is not so hot, so I was pretty much planning on sending it a deinterlaced signal, and at native resolution when my DVDO gets delivered.

Yes, I was surprised that I actually found the projector too bright. Can't quite figure that out as the lamp in my Sanyo was pretty new and I was running it full on (the only option with that projector). I'm wondering if it is the higher fill factor plus the greater number of pixels that create an impression of higher intensity?

One thing I didn't point out in the first review. The image seems much more uniform, the brightness between the center and edge of the screen feels much more uniform. The optics (lens) on this projector is noticeably superior to the Sanyo.

I have to agree with Icon that this new Canon light engine clearly represents a step forward that might be very applicable to both the JVC LCOS and Sony SXRD. In fact, I'd expect it could really improve LCDs too. No scientific basis for this statement, just my impression.

I'm planning on playing around with some filters, will probably start a separate thread here once I'm fully set up and ask the experienced LCOS folks for some pointers on this. But will not attempt this until I get the new scaler on line.

Dan

Fiber isn't necessary, very decent wire cable is available that does the job i.e. RAM or Kei's product that are guaranteed to work. What is necessary with your new projectors is the 12p amp. My advice it to get one before there are no more to get. When that happens you guy's are going to be very unhappy you didn't jump when you had the chance.

I might do that Jimmy, I saved so much on the DVDO scaler thanks to AVS, I can afford one. I just hate to add another box in my system, my wife is already in rebellion. :)

Dan

The amp is really small Dan. If you set it on your pj it won't be noticed and you may not need to hook up the power brick.

Hey, I know Kei's supply is really low on these, but not to fear, I have 4 of them ready to put on the market at $995 each :).

Dan-
Did you stay up all night playing with your new toy? It must be good! :D

Reminds me of when I was a kid with a new video game and my mom would come in in the morning and yell at me for staying up all night!
-Matt

Ok, so it's bright, colorful, uniform, hi-rez, zero SDE, no more blue border, quiet enough, attractive, long throw, flexible zoom....

Those are the positives.

Lack of HDCP seems to be the only substantial negative so far...

So lets hear details about the CR, black levels, shadow detail, etc. How is the pop, the depth, the realism? Is the 1000:1 CR causing problems with enjoyment of the image?

Also, do you see any judder or stutter, or any other artifacts?

Dan, the RGB adapter should be a female. (holes) Normal VGA/RGB cables are male on both sides. (pins)

If the adapter is mail then they probably expect you to plug it in directly to your laptop. You could get a gender changer at CompUSA/BB/Radioshack etc.

Keep up the good work guys!

Ken

Yes, I have to pick up a gendeer changer.

Just can't comment on the other until I get the rest of the system up. From my point of view, coming from a display with crappy CR and black, this is light years better. But certainly not up to the standards of the DLPs when it comes to CR and black.

Saw no judder, stutter or other artifacts with the 720P input through component. As noted earlier, image is a tad soft. But we knew that already about the component input, so no surprise there.

I have a lot of fiddling to do, have to go in and set up DVD source better.

Dan

You mention that uniformity is good - I would love any comments you could make about shading. If you are unaware of the problem, it can easily be checked by putting up a solid color field (esp. white), or watching a B&W clip. Look for a colored "tinge" in any of the corners or either left or right side of the image.

Any dust blobs ?

Also, could you post what the build-date of your units are ?

Thanks in advance.

- Chris

Where would you find the build date?

Vendor indicated that this unit was from a "fresh shipment".

No dust blobs.

Will check shading. Certainly wasn't apparent on the image I looked at last night. Once I get my NRS back on line, can use some of the patterns in there to check this.

Dan

The one I opened had it on a sticker on the box. Looked like it was attached by Canon.
Wasn't actually a build date, but a shipped from Canon date.

Your dealer may have removed it. Maybe the serial number has a date within it?

Ken

Nothing on the box that indicates any build date and no indication that anything was removed.

I might do that Jimmy, I saved so much on the DVDO scaler thanks to AVS, I can afford one. I just hate to add another box in my system, my wife is already in rebellion. :)

Dan

Would someone please point me in the right direction for the scaler? Was it a power buy? Is the deal over? I understand you can't quote price etc details - I don't want to break any rules.
Thanks,
Mike

Ugh

Well intersting you say that, as I bought the Digital Connection DVI splitter "solution" as an insurance policy on the day I bought the Canon, but when I put the amp inline between the Comcast cable box and the projector, I get nothing.......

Dan, Here is the fibre optic cable that I bought.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/cables/ddi.asp

Kei confirmed for me that this fibre cable will pass an HDCP compliant signal. Perhaps my HDCP cable problem is that the short DVI cable I am using between the cable box and the splitter is not passing the HDCP....

-Riz

Riz, that wouldn't happen. Suggest you contact Kei directly. Sounds like your DVI amp/splitter isn't one of the ones that remedies the HDCP problem.

Dan

Great prelim reviews guys!

Sounds like Canon is making running improvements, since the Blue-Black border is gone. The projector that I saw with the problem was built in March. (you didn't mention this Riz, does yours have it?)

Are either of you going to have your projector calibrated?

Thanks,
Ken


I did notice a slight, soft HALO, but it wasn't blue enough to bother me.

I'm so happy right now, I think I'll just tweak around on my own and keep reading the forum for tweaking tip.....

-Riz

OK, I saw the slight halo but when I cranked down the brightness and went to low lamp, it is minimal, almost gone. Screen masking will take care of the rest.

Dan

Riz, do you have the 2 in, 1 out 12p ?

Also DVI cables (fiber or wire) don't have the ability to "pass" or "not pass" HDCP. Either the cables work or don't work passing an adaquate Digital signal.

If you'd like, give me a call (send a PM for my number), I may be able to help get things working for HD via DVI.

Do you mean 1 in and 2 out?
It's a SPLITTER/AMP right?
I asked Kei both these questions and here's her response

As Kei wrote to me :

--------------------

That is the correct part that you need for the SX50.

Fiber Optic cables cannot pass HDCP if there is not a copper wire that runs the cable to pass the required signal.

----------
Well, There you go

Riz, your correct, guess I"m scrambled eggs this morning. It's 1 in, two out. Is that what you have (12p) ?

http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/ddd12p.asp

yeah, thats it...

and the short cable I am using to get into the splitter is a copper cable that came with my OPPO DVD player.....

Dan,

I'm wondering if you select "True Size" in the "Screen Settings" if you will get 1024x768 un-scaled?

Can't find any info on build dates or versions. If you hook up a serial cable you can query the Rom version.

Ken

Great.
Did you try both "out's" to your projector ?

OK, Riz, but I still don't understand. You HAVE a copper cable BEFORE the splitter/amp, correct? If so, you have a copper cable where you would supposedly need it as AFTER the splitter amp, HDCP is gone and it shouldn't matter what the cable is. What am I missing here?

Does Kei understand that you have copper up to the splitter amp but not after it?

Sure glad you're sorting this out for the rest of us. :)

Dan

Ken, yes. According to the manual, this setting just cuts out the scaler. If you send it an XGA image, it will be smaller than the screen. Maybe we use this setting when we input at native resolution.

Dan

You're not missing anything, as I read it, Dan.
It's just not working yet.
Just for clarification :

Comcast 5100 DVI out
via copper DVI cable (5')
into DVI "splitter" input
50' fibre optic DVI cable out from the splitter
into Canon SX50 DVI input

...ah, to be the guinea pig....

OK, Riz, but I still don't understand. You HAVE a copper cable BEFORE the splitter/amp, correct? If so, you have a copper cable where you would supposedly need it as AFTER the splitter amp, HDCP is gone and it shouldn't matter what the cable is. What am I missing here?

Does Kei understand that you have copper up to the splitter amp but not after it?

Sure glad you're sorting this out for the rest of us. :)

Dan
"What am I missing here?"
Your not missing anything, your making to big a deal about the copper wire, forget the copper wire and you got it:).

Dan,
I assume he's running the *fiber to the 12p's "in" and wire to the number 1 (middle) connector to the projector.. But it's the same if cables are reversed.
The toggle switches should be set... SW1 "ON", SW2 "OFF"

Riz, have you tried the cables the other way around, optical bridging STB and splitter, and copper bridging splitter and projector? Also, is the DVI input on the projector DVI-D or DVI-I? Same question for the STB DVI output.

No Jimmy, it sounds to me like the copper wire is between the source and the splitter and the fiber optic is between the splitter and the projector. But if he has it the other way around, that is the problem.

What are you watching these days, Jimmy? Still got the PLV70? If so, sell it and get one of these, it blows the Sanyo LCDs away.

dan

Ferret, the projector has a DVI/I input but also accepts DVI/D. Shouldn't matter either way.

Dan

Sounds like it is a very nice projector. Just wish it had power focus/zoom like my G10 has. I use them all the time in my constant height setup with a ISCO II.

Shawn

No Jimmy, it sounds to me like the copper wire is between the source and the splitter and the fiber optic is between the splitter and the projector. But if he has it the other way around, that is the problem.


dan
No it isn't a problem, it makes no difference if he's using all fiber, all wire or any combination of the above or which one is connected where. Your hung up on Riz's "fiber with a copper wire"...:).
I've been using the 12p for a long time and have put them in 2 other installs where HDCP deficient pj's were being used.

I still using the 70 Dan, and have two other pj's. I trying to get my hands on a Mercury HD. But I might play with the Canon if someone say's it can be calibrated (has at the least accessable drive and cut-off controls) to get a decent 6500k gray-scale. I have a great generator and CF pro to get the job done if ....also:) wm's around the corner to help with the shading problem (assuming there is one).

Riz, have you tried the cables the other way around, optical bridging STB and splitter, and copper bridging splitter and projector?


As it turns out, the short 5' DVI copper cable that came with my OPPO DVD player does NOT pass an HDCP compliant signal.

Here was the workflow :

Initially, I patched (as we call it in the audio world) out of the COMCAST box into the DVI splitter via the short copper DVI cable from OPPO. I then patched out of the DVI splitter inot the Canon SX50 via the long 50' fibre optic DVI cable. This setup did not work, regardless of the logic I thought I had applied.

I then disconnected all cables and moved the DVI splitter right next to the projector. I patched out of the COMCAST box into the DVI splitter via the long 50' fibre optic DVI cable. Out of the DVI splitter, I patched into the Canon via the sort 5' OPPO copper cable. Success. Beautiful. A digital DVI HD feed into the Canon. HappyChappy.

Weird logic that perhaps someone on this thread can explain to me, but, regardless, I got it to work and now all I need is a sweet VP30 to act as a scaler/switcher....

-Riz

Dan,

That's cool. So you can scale up with the mechanical zoom and take the Canon's internal scaler out of the loop. And it will probably be the best setting for the VP30.

Will the VP30 do the 60.02 refresh?

Great News Riz! Looks like the major drawback can be solved.

Ken

Weird logic that perhaps someone on this thread can explain to me, but, regardless, I got it to work and now all I need is a sweet VP30 to act as a scaler/switcher....//Riz
.....................
OPPO's cables have one pin missing or not wired ? That's strange and I learned something. Don't use OPPO DVI cables:).

I have a bunch of el cheapo short DVI cables and they have all worked no matter where I connect them .

Super you have HD DVI working Riz.

Can someone tell me if the Canon has accessable controls so it's gray scale can be properly calibrated ? Or any service menu hints ?

I suppose when I can tear myself away from this projector, I'll buy a replacement 5' DVI cable and put the DVI splitter back in my equipment rack and not by the projector....

-Riz

Riz, now I'm really confused. I thought it was the fiber optic cable that wouldn't handle the HDCP. This sounds like it was the copper cable that was the problem.

Ken, I'm not that dissatisfied with what the Canon's scaler is doing. Remember, it is the deinterlacer that everyone has said is crappy. If I do what you're saying, I lose a bunch of pixels.

Yes, the VP 30 will do the 60.02 refresh according to Josh of DVDO. It can be locked on both the exact horizontal and vertical resolution specified by Canon.

Jimmy, what controls do you need to play with gray scale? It has this "advanced color correction system" I think that is what you would need. If you want to email me, I can email you the Canon manual in pdf. It discusses that system in detail. I haven't even gotten close to fooling with that yet. Honestly, the picture out of the box was pretty good with just a little fiddling, I'm just trying to get the setup working right now. I have to go pick up an adapter in the morning to hook up the rest of it.

Now if you'd like to visit New Mexico and bring your calibration set up, I'd swap free room and board for that. :)

LOL, this is so damn complicated just to watch TV. :)

Dan

" what controls do you need to play with gray scale?"

Access to the RGB levels at different IRE levels. If you can't do that in the projector some scalers have the ability to adjust gray scale. Lumagen's have it for example in their advanced menus.

Shawn

OK, here's where the pdf for the SX50 is:

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/projector/Realis_E.pdf

Look at the parts that discuss adjusting gamma and the advance color adjustment section. In the hard copy manual, those are pages 64 and 67. Let us know what you think.

Dan

Dan,

I just took a quick look but I don't think that would get it done. (Could be wrong though) There doesn't appear to be a way to balance the grey scale at various IRE levels with that control.

Take a look at how you can balance gray scale in a scaler for example and see how much more complex it is.

http://www.lumagen.com/support_faq.htm#faq_2_5_11

When you watch Dilard calibrate the gray scale on a G10 Dila it first goes through and maximizes black level . The it determines maximum white level (finding which color limits the system) then it goes through multiple times setting gray scale I think every 10 IRE from 0 (or maybe 20) to 100 and rechecking itself to be sure it is correct.

Shawn

The 6-axis color correction doesn't appear to be what we need.

I believe it's letting us adjust the color decoding and it does let you set the white point, but that's assuming the projector is perfectly calibrated.

We may need the code to get into Service Mode to calibrate grayscale.

Can you put up a gray ramp from the NRS or Avia/DVE and see if it looks gray across the board?

The 6-axis user settings will let you adjust the avg color temp of the gray ramp, but I don't think it will let you adjust the individual gains and offsets of the primaries.

Ken

IMAGE QUALITY: Film like, if a little soft.
I understand that you are still calibrating your new projector, but it's interesting that your initial comment is similar to mine. I believe that you will soon realize that the Sanyo LCD panels tended to provide a sharpness that is "etched", and that we get use to it. LCoS because of it's pixel density, has a smoothness that can be viewed initally as 'soft' but is ultimately more realistic.

Congrats! And Enjoy!

Yeah, Ken, I can pull up a gray ramp from the NRS. Have to pick up an adapter in the morning and will be out at the property all day tomorrow, so probably won't get much done until Thursday. First thing I have to determine is whether there is any difference between the two inputs.

Thanks Mike, I thought maybe you were going to offer to swap your Qualia for my SX50. :D

Dan

I believe that you will soon realize that the Sanyo LCD panels tended to provide a sharpness that is "etched", and that we get use to it.

Discovered the same thing when I put the IMX on my 20HD (although to a lesser degree I wager).

It was interesting to notice that only some material became softer, as I was actually able to see differences in focus quality of the original source material that all looked uniformly sharp before.

BB

J.Mike, you are talking about the apparent sharpness that results from LCD which is lossed when the fill-factor is greatly increased. I always looked at this as the SDE producing and artification EE of sorts.

BTW, I do not know if anyone knew this, but Fry's Electronics carries this projector. Unfortunately, my local store had it literally thrown on the shelf and not setup in any manner known to us.

Last night I wated HDNet's showing of "Winged Migration." Although there were annoying dropouts, this was the best picture I've seen so far on my Qualia. Talk about depth! Talk about realistic colors. Talk about dynamic range! Talk about resolution! Breathtaking - simply breathtaking. Just goes to show what 1080i properly broadcast with full bandwidth can look like. Unfortunately, this is not the norm - even with OTA, now that the locals use compression on HD to add useless subchannels.

J.Mike, how was HDnet delivered to you? I know how its been delivered (i.e. form) from the two satellite providers, but are you sure you were getting full-resolution?

J.Mike,

Have you considered C or Ku-band satellite? (Big Ugly Dish = BUD)

You can get the original un-reprocessed HD from these sources. Just have to have the space and fortitude to deal with the BUD. I grew up with it, so wouldn't mind, but it would be challenging to hide the BUD from our HOA.

Riz,

Sounds like Dan's out for today. Any reports from last evening?

Ken

Ferret,
I have Dish and believe that the Mark Cuban channels feeds are around 15MB.

J.Mike,

Riz, Any reports from last evening?

Ken

I spent most of the day hiding wires and cables, and pulling out old cables and components that are no longer needed. We didn't watch a whole film last night, as we went out to dinner with friends, but I did watch a few scenes from some films throughout the day. At one point I put the Canon back into NORMAL lamp mode for maximum brightness, but no further adjustments from there.

My wife watched parts of MODERN TIMES before we went out to dinner. (For those unfamiliar, thats an old Charlie Chaplin film, 4x3 that I had the OPPO scale to the Canon.) Beautiful B/W image. Very impressive detail and shading.

But what I noticed was how warm the room was. Granted our room is very well insulated and retains heat well in the winter, but it surprised me. I think the Canon runs hot, and I am curious if others (Dan) will find the same thing after some time.

I'm working today, so no tinkering will occur.

-Riz

...
I'm working today, so no tinkering will occur.

-Riz

I'm working today, so no tinkering will occur...
I'm working today, so no tinkering will occur...
...

:) Ken

Riz,

I thought the exhaust was pretty hot on the one I played with. The specs say 290W in normal mode and 240W on silent mode.

To compare I looked up a few others:

SX50 290W
SX21 340W
HX2 340W
H79 320W
Qualia 980W :)
HS51 195W

So it compares pretty favorably. I think its relatively small size may make it seem hotter. What did you have before?

Ken

I used to have a Hitachi 5500

OK, time for Dan's second report.

I think this projector runs hot but I don't trust my impression as the Canon blows sideways and my Sanyo blew backwards.

OK, I am now running the XGA output of my Faroudja NRS into the DVI/I input using the RGB adapter, so the projector correctly identified it as RGB analog and XGA. No sweat there.

Again noticed the softer image I'm not used too. As J Mike noted, he sees the same on his Qualia. Not really objectionable, just takes getting used to.

Tried both the DVD player and the Comcast Digital cable input. Current setup has the Denon 3910 outputting interlaced to the Farouda that interlaces and sends to projector. Looks pretty good, very nice color and contrast. SD sources look better than they did before, the softening improves their "watchability" IMO.

Ken, I ran the projector though the test screens of the NRS. Convergence is spot on, the lines are straight, clean and white. Grey ramp is all gray. NONE of the color blush problem on gray screen that bedeviled J. Mike with his Sanyo. NONE. Gray bars were very easy to see, very straight and well defined. Much better than on the previous LCD.

Concluded that LESS brightness and color was needed, dropped those on the projector one tick. Out of the box settings definitely overdrive the color and are just a tad inclined towards the green. Fixed that too. Cut Green one tick in the setup. Menus are a snap to use.

For some reason, the blue border thingy is more obvious on the DVI adapted input. Careful adjusting of the image size puts it over the vellum of my screen frame where I can't see it. But it is definitely there, make sure you have a light absorbing frame of at least 3" around your screen.

Knocked gamma one tick to the left, improved the perceived contrast. Will go back and do this on the other inlet too.

Gonna try the acid test--Star Wars III shortly. Gonna watch that puppy. :)

I'm concluding this projector will definitely benefit from a better scaler. However the SD sources look so nice coming out of the Faroudja I'm definitely going to keep it in the rack ahead of the DVDO VP30 for that source.

Next experiment is to route everything through first the component and then the VGA cable and try and compare the two. Will set up each with DVE as the first step.

So far, so good. This projector is light years ahead of the Sanyo that I paid $5500 for three years ago. Nice to pay 40% less and get a MUCH better image. Happy Camper! :D

Dan Houck

I used to have a Hitachi 5500
Formerly known as the EasyBake Oven. :D

Ferret,
I have Dish and believe that the Mark Cuban channels feeds are around 15MB.
You are talking bitrate, which can be another problem. I'm talking about down-rezznig. I think Dish does 1440x1080, IIRC.

Dish has down-rezzed a number of the Zoom channels. Again, I do not believe this is true of HDNET.

Again noticed the softer image I'm not used too. As J Mike noted, he sees the same on his Qualia. Not really objectionable, just takes getting used to.
I'm thinking we need to use another word besides 'softer' since that imples less resolution.

I used to have a Hitachi 5500
Care to compare the performance of the Canon and the Hitachi?


Just think, I was originally looking at getting a Hitachi 5600 prior to Canon and Sony getting into the game. I guess one advantage of being poor is that when you finally can afford something technology has moved on significantly.


I'm thinking we need to use another word besides 'softer' since that imples less resolution
You mean less detail. Resolution simply determines the number of pixels or scanning frequency, not how much information is in a picture.

Yeah, I think "softer" is not a good word. "Smoother" I think is a lot more accurate. I watched it tonight mainly with my digital cable box and continued to fine tune it. Lowered brightness a bit more and dropped red one tick. Frankly the image is so good on the digital movie channels I'm wondering why I think I need the VP30. The Canon seems to upscale the XGA signal very cleanly. I'm debating whether to spend the scaler money on a Mosquito instead and wait for the next generation scalers with HQV.

Next experiment up is to send the DVD player output as 480P directly to the projector via the component cables, routing the HDTV signal through the NRS as a pass through. I'm thinking the 3910 might do a better film deinterlacing job than the NRS since it is so much newer. Will try this tomorrow and report. Anyone who has an opinion on this, please comment.

I'm noticing some light spill with this projector. You don't really notice it when the movie is running, but it is quite noticeable when the blue screen is up. But I also had this with the Sanyo. I'm thinking it may be a hazard of very bright projectors.

This is one BRIGHT projector. Definitely feels much brighter than the Sanyo even though I'm running it on low lamp. Colors are intense, reds are incredible. Have to back color off to eliminated crush, thats how much color there is. Watched "Miracle" and the Russian hockey team jersey were so red they knocked your eyes out. The reds from this projector remind me of the great reds that Sims put out.

I've seen the Hitachi and it can't play in this ball park. The Canon light engine really is a major step forward. I'd love to see it applied to the next generation LCOS chips, I think it could be a category killer.

Dan

Dan,

I agree with your thinking on the 3910. I got to eval one on a HS51, and it's one of the few players that will put out as clean and sharp a signal on component as digital.

The Canon may not have the analog circuitry to match, so if the 3910 will put out 480P non-HDCP on its DVI out, I'd try that. I don't know if it will though.

Ken

Dan,
I agree with your thinking on the 3910. I got to eval one on a HS51, and it's one of the few players that will put out as clean and sharp a signal on component as digital.
The Canon may not have the analog circuitry to match, so if the 3910 will put out 480P non-HDCP on its DVI out, I'd try that. I don't know if it will though.
Ken

Ken -

You should also try the Oppo DVD Player. It has a few issues still but I found it to do a great 720p upscale via DVI into my SX50.

Sorry for not being active lately gang. I live(d) in Metairie Louisiana, a suburb of New Orleans, and I think most of you know what has happened there. My wife and I drove out at 3AM Sunday morning to Houston and are now in Austin with relatives. I have no clue as to whether my house is standing intact, submerged and/or if it has been looted. I am hoping that my slab which is at sea level did not take in much if any water. The levee break was on the New Orleans not Jefferson/Metairie side so there is a chance my SX50 is still high and dry (it is/was ceiling mounted). Will be going back to rescue what is left then I'm taking a month off to see the USA while New Orleans begins an incredible uphill rebuilding process. Go-Saints-Go! (Where?)

Oh yes, Ken - After playing with the various modes settled on the RGB one. You said the SX50 was "hot" but you also have a smaller screen than I. Perhaps you need to get a bigger screen now that you have a projector that can handle one (Unlike our Qualia friends). I also mounted my SX50 about a foot down from the ceiling since I had problems with my Sanyo XP40 unit mounted directly on the ceiling sucking in the heated air that it expelled which lingers up there (the old hot air rises bit.).

Icon Master

Dan,
I agree with your thinking on the 3910. I got to eval one on a HS51, and it's one of the few players that will put out as clean and sharp a signal on component as digital.
The Canon may not have the analog circuitry to match, so if the 3910 will put out 480P non-HDCP on its DVI out, I'd try that. I don't know if it will though.
Ken

Ken -

You should also try the Oppo DVD Player. It has a few issues still but I found it to do a great 720p upscale via DVI into my SX50.

Sorry for not being active lately gang. I live(d) in Metairie Louisiana, a suburb of New Orleans, and I think most of you know what has happened there. My wife and I drove out at 3AM Sunday morning to Houston and are now in Austin with relatives. I have no clue as to whether my house is standing intact, submerged and/or if it has been looted. I am hoping that my slab which is at sea level did not take in much if any water. The levee break was on the New Orleans not Jefferson/Metairie side so there is a chance my SX50 is still high and dry (it is/was ceiling mounted). Will be going back to rescue what is left then I'm taking a month off to see the USA while New Orleans begins an incredible uphill rebuilding process. Go-Saints-Go! (Where?)

Oh yes, Ken - After playing with the various modes settled on the RGB one. You said the SX50 was "hot" but you also have a smaller screen than I. Perhaps you need to get a bigger screen now that you have a projector that can handle one (Unlike our Qualia friends). I also mounted my SX50 about a foot down from the ceiling since I had problems with my Sanyo XP40 unit mounted directly on the ceiling sucking in the heated air that it expelled which lingers up there (the old hot air rises bit.).

Icon Master

Dan,
I agree with your thinking on the 3910. I got to eval one on a HS51, and it's one of the few players that will put out as clean and sharp a signal on component as digital.
The Canon may not have the analog circuitry to match, so if the 3910 will put out 480P non-HDCP on its DVI out, I'd try that. I don't know if it will though.
Ken

Ken -

You should also try the Oppo DVD Player. It has a few issues still but I found it to do a great 720p upscale via DVI into my SX50.

Sorry for not being active lately gang. I know some of you missed my energetic posts regarding the SX50. I live(d) in Metairie Louisiana, a suburb of New Orleans, and I think most of you know what has happened there. My wife and I drove out at 3AM Sunday morning to Houston and are now in Austin with relatives. I have no clue as to whether my house is standing intact, submerged and/or if it has been looted. I am hoping that my slab which is at sea level did not take in much if any water. The levee break was on the New Orleans not Jefferson/Metairie side so there is a chance my SX50 is still high and dry (it is/was ceiling mounted). Will be going back to rescue what is left then I'm taking a month off to see the USA while New Orleans begins an incredible uphill rebuilding process. Go-Saints-Go! (Where?)

Oh yes, Ken - After playing with the various modes settled on the sRGB one. You said the SX50 was "hot" but you also have a smaller screen than I. Perhaps you need to get a bigger screen now that you have a projector that can handle one (Unlike our Qualia and DLP friends). I also mounted my SX50 about a foot down from the ceiling since I had problems with my Sanyo XP40 unit mounted directly on the ceiling sucking in the heated air that it expelled which lingers up there (the old hot air rises bit.).

Icon Master

Sorry for the triple post. The cpu hung when I sent it so I hit the post button again. When I tried to delete the duplicate it even added another copy to the thread. Bug in Web software maybe?

Icon Master

Icon, best of luck to you, I sure hope your place survived the floods. I see the usual suspects are busy looting, hopefully they won't get to do so in Metairie. Please post again and let us know you're OK.

Ken, I'm still fiddling but thinking that the scaling in the Canon is not that bad and this might work. Going to give it a try today.

Dan

Sorry for not being active lately gang. I live(d) in Metairie Louisiana, a suburb of New Orleans, and I think most of you know what has happened there. My wife and I drove out at 3AM Sunday morning to Houston and are now in Austin with relatives. I have no clue as to whether my house is standing intact, submerged and/or if it has been looted. I am hoping that my slab which is at sea level did not take in much if any water. The levee break was on the New Orleans not Jefferson/Metairie side so there is a chance my SX50 is still high and dry (it is/was ceiling mounted). Will be going back to rescue what is left then I'm taking a month off to see the USA while New Orleans begins an incredible uphill rebuilding process. Go-Saints-Go! (Where?)
I hope things work out for the best. It sounds pretty horrible over there right now.

Has anyone done a geek-evaluation on the SX50 to determine its black level under non-CC tweakdom? And no, I have not really ready any of the other long threads on this product.

Icon,

Best of luck with your home and the next month.

- Chris

A brief update on my previous report. I now have the Denon 3910, set to progressive output 480P going directly to the projector via component connection. I can confirm that the image has less noise than when it was sent as 480i to the NRS. Although both the Denon and NRS have DCDi processing, I am guessing that since the Denon's setup is so much newer that the DCDi processing is better.

For the DVD player, I have color at -2 ticks, tint at -2 ticks (lowering green) and gamma at -1 tick to the left. This is the result of a DVE run.

The image is very good. I'm really thinking now that I'll cancel the DVDO order and wait until the HQV/Gennum units get out there and get debugged.

Can't run the HDTV feed through the NRS pass thru yet as I have the wrong kind of cord, will have to pick up a M/F VGA cable and put it in. I am thinking the HDTV feed may actually do better on computer one as that input seems to be a bit sharper, and I think the HD feed could use that.

The Canon is having no problem syncing to the various signals. As I get a few hours on it, the contrast seems to be improving. It is MUCH better than the Sanyo LCD it replaced. Contrast/black purists would not find it adequate. I'm going to put on Dark City now, which was basically unwatchable on the Sanyo, and see how it does here. Will report later.

Internal scaler is MUCH better than expected. Not going to bother testing the deinterlacing as we already know that is weak.

Still VERY pleased with this projector. :)

This is sounding great!!

Dan, I do not have light control, I know its subjective, but do you think the SX50 is adequate w/out light control on a Gain 1 screen? Or would I need a new dark screen?

You need one of these screens that absorbs ambient light. The Firehawk does that to some degree. I don't think a 1 gain white screen would be the best approach here, although the projector cranks plenty of lumens for watching stuff like football, where everything is well lit. But I don't think you'd like the results with this projector as it is already on the light side with regards to CR.

An update, I'm still not real satisfied with the DVD image. HD and digital cable SD processed through my NRS looks better IMO. Still tweaking. :)

Dan

Icon,

My heart goes out to you and everyone else suffering from Katrina. You're getting way more than your share of hardship. Hopefully the good will of your neighbors is an encouragement.

I might just try an Oppo. I just got a new revised Panny S97 that gets all the raves, but I'm having trouble with Macro Blocking and shadow detail. The bright parts of the image are about the sharpest and most 3D I've seen though.

I suppose I could break down and get a high end player like the Denon 3910. But since I want to go all digital path, I don't want to pay the big bucks for great analog.

Dan,

Keep it coming! Looking forward to the review of Dark City. Interesting that the CR is improving. Is it getting brighter on the brights or darker on the darks? Any chance you'll try the DVI out on the 3910? :)

Ken

This is sounding great!!

Dan, I do not have light control, I know its subjective, but do you think the SX50 is adequate w/out light control on a Gain 1 screen? Or would I need a new dark screen?
It would be adequate, but no projector likes ambiant light.

If you plan to get a better screen and light control sooner or latter, but can't afford both that and the projector at the same time, then you can certainly run it that way. You'll find the picture quality will jump quite markedly once you upgrade your light control of course.

hi,
I promised in another thread to report back on the rumored exchange of my 1st generation SX-50. Well, I'm happy to report that it has happened. FWIW - probably won't be of much use to you guys across the pond, but my German dealer personally appealed to the Canon representative for Central Europe (located in Austria) and they agreed to swap my 2 months old pj for a brand new one which I received today.
Anyway, looks like Canon decided to rather bite the bullet now than one or two years down the road when dust blob ridden pjs come rolling in for warranty repair.
So, it would appear that I now have a firmware and hardware upgraded unit. Kudos to Canon and most of all to the dealer (http://www.hdav-beamer.de).
Cheers,

ICON: I am glad that your ok > This stuff dos'nt seem all that important when the bigger things in life hit you in the face.

Hi Dieter!

Do you know how to check the firmware version? If you hookup a serial cable you can issue the ?ROMVER command.

Please let us know any differences that you notice.

Any chance your contact can get us the code to enter Service Mode?

Thanks,
Ken

Cool Dieter, give us a run down of how you're arranging your inputs and what you are finding out. I'm still trying to decide which sources to put through which ports.

Dan

Guys - Thanks for the well wishes regarding my refugee circumstances. I'm enjoying my stay here in Austin TX with relatives and may even move about the country a bit on a forced vacation since we have been warned not to go back to Metaire/Jefferson (New Orleans suburb) for at least a week or two while order and law(?) are restored. I'm not sure when we'd even have power after that so no more tests of the SX50 from this person anytime soon. Am suffering from the effects of big screen/HiDef withdrawal since relatives here aren't into it but I'll live. :) And no NFL or Sunday and Monday night football in HiDef too. That really hurts!!!

It will also be interesting to see what happens to the New Orleans (?) Saints and their football season which is played (usually poorly) by them in the once great SuperDome. I cannot see that being a usable structure for years if ever again. The owner, Tom "tightwad" Benson has been threatening to move the team for years and now has the chance to do so but wouldn't he and the NFL be branded as SOB's forever if they did a permanent (not temporary) move under these circumstances?

Back to the SX50. I'd love to see some of you new SX50 owners spring for the Oppo DVD player and hear what you think about it. You can use a straight DVI-D copper cable (not fiber cable) from the Oppo to the SX50 and you won't need an external scaler or have any HDMI issues. The Oppo precludes the need of those and ignores HDMI protection encoding scheme - YEAH!!! The biggest negative it has is an audio/video sync issue but it seems to be somewhat containable if you resist fooling with the unit's settings while a DVD is playing and you can simply hit stop and then play to bring the A/V back into sync. I did not have much of a problem with the sync issue myself and the video output quality in 720p (upscale) on a decently encoded DVD played superbly on the SX50. The Oppo even has an image color saturation control via its DVI output too for those who like to tweak the color intensity up or down as some of you do. I find some DVD'sor movies by design are lacking in saturation and the Oppo lets you easily adjust the image to your tastes even if it violates the cardinal rule of having the picture look different from what the director intended.

For $200 the Oppo DVD player is a darn good short-term(?) investment and should tide many of you SX50 owners over till true HD DVD players come out next year(?) if ever.

Icon Master

Thanks for the input, Icon. If you get tired of Austin, come on over to Albuquerque for a visit. You can earn your keep by helping me tweak my setup. :)

Here's where I am with setup at this point. This is beginning to look like what I'll use until I add an outboard scaler.

Denon 3910 DVD player: Direct to projector via component cables, to component input of projector. Sending 480P to projector. The DCDi in the Denon is definitely better than it is in my much older NRS.

Digital cable box and HDTV-routed through NRS, HDTV pass thru at NRS, then to projector via RGB cable using RGB/DVI input. The SD and digital movie channels are really good, much better than expected. I think the DVI/RGB input is sharper than the RGB/component input.

Settings: Cinema mode on both inputs, definitely improves CR and black. Still fiddling with inputs but finding I need to knock green down a lot more on Input 2, the component. Also found I needed to decrease overall color level more on the second input.

Low lamp setting on both inputs--there's still almost too much brightness. I figure this will decrease as the lamp burns in. Have brightness knocked down one tick on both inputs. Either my Sanyo wasn't putting out near as much light as rated or the combination of high fill factor and a lot more pixels makes this projector feel MUCH brighter.

Knocking the gamma down one tick (-1) definitely helps CR. Beyond that, the shadow detail starts to suffer.

Biggest flaw thus far? I'd say it is the soft "halo" outside of the screen boundaries. The projector has a bit of a light scatter problem. Once I get my masking system installed, I'll address this issue. It may also decrease with time as the lamp ages.

Definite non-issue? Noise. This projector is much quieter than my Sanyo was, when it is operating in low lamp mode which is my standard of operation. However, if/when we do HD football gatherings, I'll probably kick it up to high with lights on in the room. I'm sure that my projector location, behind and above the seating area, helps to make noise a non issue. But my wife, who has very good hearing, noted that this projector is quieter than the Sano.

Things to watch out for? Heat, if you're going to put this projector in front of your seating area or on a ceiling where it accumulates. Not recommended.

I still think this projector would benefit from outboard scaling. I believe the internal scaler produces a slightly soft image. However, have no way to test this at the moment. So now I'm trying to decide whether to go ahead and get the VP30 and pair it with the NRS for SD and video sources, or wait for an HQV or Gennum based scaler that will allow me to eliminate the NRS. It's a tough call because the AVS deal on the VP30 is fantastic. I still have a couple of weeks to make up my mind on this.

Dan

Hello folks,

I purchased an SX50 at the end (the 29th) of April, and have been slowly watching it accumulate dust blobs over the past four months. There have been a number of other events going on that have forced me to ignore the problem until now. As it stands, it isn't bad, but it'll get there... (there are around 5-8 "blobs" now). I've used this for less than 75 hours.

After emailing Canon for support, it appears my only option is to send it in for "repair" and hope that something is done. What I'd *like* to do is get confirmation from someone that the repair will be an actual fix, not just a cleaning - but I can't find anyone to talk to.

So I'm asking for advice. Are there any resellers out there that can help? (This can from PC/Gov connection) I'd be willing to sell the unit and buy a new one even... or pay for someone's trouble for the exchange, etc. etc. I (like everyone here), just want to have a projector that I can run and not acculumate dust. Even if the dust accumulated at a slower rate and I could clean it out myself... but, as it is, 2 blobs a month (with very little usage) seems excessive.

Thanks for your time,
John

Dan,

You do remember Rizman's review about when he switched to native DVI input?

excerpt:

"...and then my life changed....

Over DVI, at the Canon's native resolution, I had an image that was unbelieveable at this price point..."

Does the VP30 PowerBuy give you a return option if its not a big improvement?

Doorknob, (sure you're not Deandob? :) )
I'd try to get an exchange for a newer unit. The best bet is if you can get your original supplier to argue your case. If not, do it yourself. If they won't go for it, just get it fixed.

Ken

From what I can gather, you have a first generation unit. It appears they are replaciing these. Send it in.

Yes Ken, I do remember Riz's comment. :)

Dan

Doorknob, (sure you're not Deandob? )

Nope, I'm still here. I also bought mine in April but from Canon Australia, and it had 1 large dustblob which disappeared (blown away?) the day I was just about to ship it back to Canon to be cleaned. I can see a couple of very very small blobs on an all black screen if I look very closely, not worth worrying about and no new ones. I am living in a new house with still a bit of dust around from landscaping, final plaster patching etc. but it the SX50 filter seems to be working as I have had no new blobs.

On another topic, I have just build a new HTPC for the SX50 with the old one going back to the plasma in the lounge room. I'm using one of the new dual core AMD chips - very fast for utilities like ffdshow. This new PC uses the Nvidia 6600GT which users on this forum say will not work with a long DVI cable, I have a 40' cable and its working fine, although I have noted that the projector prefers to have the PC startup after the projector has turned on, else the signal wont sync. Note that for DVI you want the projector to use digital DVI not analog DVI.

I have not used my SX50 with a normal DVD player, but I can report that there is a significant image quality difference between just running DVDs using out of the box software (eg. Windows Media Centre, or WinDVD) compared to tweaking it with software like zoomplayer and ffdshow. I suspect that using state of the art software scaling and processing with a good video card, when setup correctly on a PC using DVI at native panel resolution will outgun a good DVD player even with a good scaler attached.

Regards,
Dean

I'll post a further update for now.

I ended up pairing the OTA HDTV tuner and the DVD player on the component input and used the DVI/RGB inpur for the digital cable box routed thru the NRS. This produces the best overall results. I used DVE to check the settings; as noted previously, the biggest changes are to lower brightness two ticks, contrast is flat, sharpness is off, green is - 6 ticks and blue is + 1 tick. That seemed to produce the truest color, at least to the eye.

Interesting that everyone has talked about the weak internal deinterlacing and so-so scaling, which I will confirm. However, IMO the biggest flaw of this projector is light spill. It has a lot of it, far too much for HT use. I started working on that issue tonight. Will report more on that later.

As I've tuned in the settings, I've been increasingly satisfied with the image, light spill aside. The color is gorgeous, the image is sooo smooth.

As for the light spill, well this sorta reminds me of the old days of HT when we were always fixing stuff like this with projectors. :)

My wife loves it too. She commented on how rich the colors were and how much better the dark scenes are.

Dan

Dan,

Do you mean light coming out of the various vent holes on the projector, or in general light scattered from the lens outside the focus area? I see more of the former than the latter, and thinking a bit of aluminium foil sprayed matt black placed inside the projector will do the trick as long as its not blocking ventilation pathways, or if you are not up to opening the projector for warranty reasons, a hushbox/lightbox or even some black cardboard outside the projector will help.

Regards,
Dean

I've wondered if this light spill is not an opportunity for the adventurous. There is quite a bit of stray light bouncing around inside this projector. Maybe some of this is keeping the CR from being what it should be.

I was thinking that black sunscreen material might work well and not affect the air flow. Maybe slightly angle it to the light and the light would be blocked but not the air.

We need to get darinp interested in this beast. He'd slap a homebrew iris in there and have the contrast doubled in no time.

Ken

Dean, I'm talking about light outside of the image area. On my 106" screen, there's a very definite two foot ring of light around the image. It's strongest on the bottom.

Last night I Made a simple light stop for the bottom of the image using a piece of folded paper, it worked very well. I'm going to take advantage of all the room on my pedestal and make an adjustable light stop frame that will sit in front of the projector and block the light on all four sides. I'll post a picture of the entire setup once I get it done.

Darin could probably turn it into a pint-sized Qualia. That would make Icon's day. :D


Dan

Well this sounds as if the unit would need an internal masking, or iris behind the lens, as it was invented for the early D-ILAs by two D-ILA users from austria. This would not be too hard to do, if you like I could send you a link to a german site where the procedure is described for the old JVC G10 in detail. And cine4home has a page where he describes how this can be done with the SX21, again with positive effect on on/off contrast.

Ken, actually I don't think that you need somebody to do this for you, the only option is in my opinion to do it yourself, as I have difficulties to believe that Darin or anybody else would give you warranty on this service, besides it is voiding the factory warranty to do something like this...

I mainly meant that Darin would spend the time optimizing the placement, size, shape of the iris(es). (I like your phrase Dan - "pint-sized Qualia" :) )

I'm almost hoping I don't find any better option at Cedia next week so I can get this projector and see what I can get out of it.

I would only mod it myself and in such a way as to not void the warranty. There are laws about such things here. Manufacturers can't void the warranty unless the the mod actually caused the problem.

Ken

Peter, although I fool around a lot with my motorcycles, I don't root around inside my projectors. :)

So I'm just going to take a simple, but I believe effective approach to blocking most of the stray light just outside of the projector.

Let me emphasize this issue isn't a deal killer for this projector but is serious enough IMO to warrant a fix. Of course, that is much harder to do if your projector is hanging from a ceiling rather than sitting on a pedestal behind the seating area.

To reiterate, overall I am VERY pleased with this projector.

Darin could probably turn it into a pint-sized Qualia. That would make Icon's day. :D
Dan

You made my day!!!!

Perhaps Darin will stop putting the SX50 unit down now that you have scantioned it. I will admit now that I was coming on pretty strong but that was by design. I did want to inflame the smug group here to get the SX50 some recognition and my ploy worked. I also have to admit that I loved to tease folks. But it does remain true that compared to the SX50 the DLP folks and even the Qualia owners do essentially need to watch their projector's outputs on smaller screen in near totaly dark "caves" due to their lower lumen outputs. I just had to frame it that way to make the point strongly and create attention and thread traffic. I will not back off those points and do love huge screens and a tad of controlled light in my home theater.

If I recall Dan you said on your small :) 108"(?) screen you were using the lower lumen setting. I was doing the same on my 11' screen. I think in higher ouput mode the SX50 would likely handle a 200" plus screen. Now that would be a real home theater - right Darin?!!!! Our DLP and Qualia friends can only shudder and weep when we SX50 fans have thoughts like that.

Now being the persistent SOB that I am, I really do want to ask of you Dan and/or Ken to try out the Oppo DVD player. It is only $199 and you can return it if you do not like it within 30 days. I would like to hear your opinions of its output compared to what you are getting from your Denon's or whatever. I love the simplicity of using the "cheap" Oppo and I was (as many others here are too) impressed of its output quality. My Momitsu via DVI couldn't touch it and component output from the other DVD players I tested just wasn't as sharp. You guys have resisted me on this as you seem to prefer to play/experiment with the external scalers, etc but unless I am missing something the Oppo might give you all you need at a much lower price and a far simpler solution. Now I am strictly talking DVD's here. It is a whole different story for cable boxes or satellite receivers. However there I wish I could have had you guys over to see my big dish feeding the SX50 at 1080i component. I hope the MPEG4 receivers due from Direct TV can match my big dish and then I will be one happy "camper."

But again, redundantly guys, spring for the Oppo DVD player, tie it to your SX50 and see if it matches or exceeds your current DVD setups.

Icon Master

Darin could probably turn it into a pint-sized Qualia. That would make Icon's day. :D
Dan

You made my day!!!!

Perhaps Darin will stop putting the SX50 unit down now that you have scantioned it. I will admit now that I was coming on pretty strong but that was by design. I did want to inflame the smug group here to get the SX50 some recognition and my ploy worked. I also have to admit that I loved to tease folks. But it does remain true that compared to the SX50 the DLP folks and even the Qualia owners do essentially need to watch their projector's outputs on smaller screen in near totaly dark "caves" due to their lower lumen outputs. I just had to frame it that way to make the point strongly and create attention and thread traffic. I will not back off those points and do love huge screens and a tad of controlled light in my home theater.

If I recall Dan you said on your small :) 108"(?) screen you were using the lower lumen setting. I was doing the same on my 11' screen. I think in higher ouput mode the SX50 would likely handle a 200" plus screen. Now that would be a real home theater - right Darin?!!!! Our DLP and Qualia friends can only shudder and weep when we SX50 fans have thoughts like that.

Now being the persistent SOB that I am, I really do want to ask of you Dan and/or Ken to try out the Oppo DVD player. It is only $199 and you can return it if you do not like it within 30 days. I would like to hear your opinions of its output compared to what you are getting from your Denon's or whatever. I love the simplicity of using the "cheap" Oppo and I was (as many others here are too) impressed of its output quality. My Momitsu via DVI couldn't touch it and component output from the other DVD players I tested just wasn't as sharp. You guys have resisted me on this as you seem to prefer to play/experiment with the external scalers, etc but unless I am missing something the Oppo might give you all you need at a much lower price and a far simpler solution. Now I am strictly talking DVD's here. It is a whole different story for cable boxes or satellite receivers. However there I wish I could have had you guys over to see my big dish feeding the SX50 at 1080i component. I hope the MPEG4 receivers due from Direct TV can match my big dish and then I will be one happy "camper."

But again, redundantly guys, spring for the Oppo DVD player, tie it to your SX50 and see if it matches or exceeds your current DVD setups.

Icon Master

Sorry Icon, Dan has DVI-phobia :) and I don't have an SX50. It will be shortly after Cedia at the end of this week.

Depending on what I see/hear I'll order something. (or know what I'm waiting for :) )

Also, I've kind of sworn off cheap DVD players. I picked up a Cyberhome that Stacey Spears said was good and a Panny S97 that Secrets and everyone else raves about.
I took the Cyberhome back and the S97 will only be used as a backup. (still trying on S97)

My sights are now on the upcoming Pioneer 79avi with 480i "Direct" over HDMI. (no processing, just raw video like SDI!)

I'll go 480i "Direct" into my Gennum scaler and out SXGA+ 60.02 Hz to the SX50.

Icon, I'd love to have a big dish and get the un re-processed HD. I'll bet it is truly spectacular. I've been looking into getting a 30" FTA system just to try. I've got a homeowners association that rivals the SS.

Is there reason to believe that DirectTV will change their ways once they go MPEG4? I'm skeptical...

Nice to have you posting more, Icon.

Ken

----------------------------
HT upgrader in search of "Pint-sized Qualia" :)

No Ken, it's HDCP phobia! :D

I can sidestep the whole problem by using the component out on my DVD player, which as you know is widely reported as equaling the DVI on this player. So why bother with the HDCP hassle when none of my other sources have it?

What "gennum scaler" are you going to buy, Ken?

I have an Anthem D1 prepro. All the Anthems - AVM20,AVM30,D1 all get an upgrade that includes 4 HDMI 1.1 inputs and a Gennum/Realta class scaler. (I'm not 100% sure its Gennum, I'll see it at Cedia next week)

You know, the Oppo is one of the few players that ignores the HDCP rules and upconverts with no encryption. So it is a natural for the SX50.

I think you should try DVD/DVI even at 480P. If the SX50 has weak analog processing, but decent scaling, then that may get the better picture. Will the 3910 output 480p over DVI without HDCP?

Just to see if it's worth it, you might track down a DVD that's un-encrypted and so won't engage HDCP on the Denon.

Ken

Ken, I have a VP30 on order and have decided to get it for a number of reasons, including the ability to spot on Native Rate scale for the Canon, plus provide audio switching and a lot of simplification to my current setup. The Faroudja NRS is doing a great job with the digital cable/SD. I'm going to keep it in the system for that source and let it output XGA for scaling to SXGA+ by the VP30.

Looking forward to your Cedia report, Ken!

You know, the Oppo is one of the few players that ignores the HDCP rules and upconverts with no encryption. So it is a natural for the SX50.

I think you should try DVD/DVI even at 480P. If the SX50 has weak analog processing, but decent scaling, then that may get the better picture. Will the 3910 output 480p over DVI without HDCP?
Ken

Why go through all the gyrations when the Oppo, as you said, does defy the rules and puts out a true upscaled DVI-D 720p image. Sometimes you guys astound me with your need to make things more complicated (and more expensive). I will put the Oppo at 720p against any of the other complex combinations of DVD component up, down and sideways scaling you guys come up with. I also tried the Oppo 480p with the SX50 but I think the Oppo's 720p via my 30' DVD-D cable wins the prize and at times I was hard pressed to realize I was watching a upscaled versus true HD image.

Before I invested in the Momitsu (OK component but lousy DVI - lacks color saturation and no adjustment) and then the Oppo I did call Denon and chat at length with the tech support folks. According to what I was told NONE of their current units do upscaling via DVI-D without the copy protection of HDMI. He said it was illegal for them to do it that way and so they absolutely will not be producing any current or future units with a simple DVI-D output. Case Closed!!! I called Oppo and got their sweet el cheapo DVD player with superb (and adjustable) DVI-D output.

At about $200 isn't the Oppo about one-tenth the cost of most of the scalers you guys gota have? So what do you have to loose by trying one out - not much!! Get off the high road guys once again (like you did by purchasing the SX50 instead of a dim H79, dim JVC, Simm whatever or that oversized, overpriced dim SX50 called Qualia) and try the Oppo! After all, have I ever mislead you guys? ;)

Icon Master

Hey Icon,

Remember this is a hobby for most of us here, not our jobs. So any wild hair we want to pursue is fair game. :)

I'm a big fan of scalers, because I've found that every display (especially the more affordable) shine their best when fed their native rate signal. I see a scaler as an enabler and a money saver. Now, just about any old source I have laying around is going to look great with my display. If you have a nice scaler then you can throw the DVD Player scores in Secret's shootout out the window. Now any DVD player you run through your scaler gets a perfect score. And not only DVD players, but every other source you have, or may get, will get the same perfect score.

Having said that, does the Oppo have adjustable scaling to match your display like the Momitsu does?

One other thing. Since you are a dealer of sorts, can you get a service manual and/or the code to get into the service menu? I'd like to be able to calibrate the grayscale.

Only three days to Cedia!

Ken

Icon, the DVD output is not the only source I have that needs scaling. My observation, which others have made also, is that while the scaling in the Canon is passable, it is not optimal. Even if I send it 720P, the scaling in the Canon would be involved. And my other sources can currently send only XGA, requiring even more scaling by the Canon.

Also, I really don't want to give up a DVD player with a superior build and transport, for an inexpensive player like the Oppo, just to bypass the HDCP.

The Canon is a very good cheap projector. But it has some weaknesses, such as light spill and scaling, which need to be addressed for best possible results. And the switching in my setup is too complicated, it fails WAF. The VP30 will address all these issues for me and keeping my NRS in the system takes care of the VP30s SD video weakness. That's why I'm going this route.

Dan

Well Dan, I read this whole thread (most of it closely) and I'm pretty well up to speed.

First, I can't believe you think it's too bright. I accidentally ran across an early Steve Smalcombe review of the PLV-70 a couple of days ago, and he thought it was too bright at first and used a neutral density filter, and after switching back and forth, he chucked the filter and came over to the BRIGHT side. I predict the same for you in a month or two. Just keep watching HD.

How did Dark City actually look? When I first saw it on a bright projector, I could actually see what was going on. That felt good.

VP30 and NRS, man that's a lot of processing.

This place has been so boring lately, but this thread reminds me of the old days. Discovery and satisfaction, on a budget. Very cool.

I'm starting to post less, mostly so I don't have to compete with the Dork Squad about "indiscernibles".

Dan, You've GOT to go DVI with this thing. Get that K.Clark thingy and leap.

This "smooth" picture thing harkens back to the early D-ILA bunch, who would happily trade that look and bright colors for less than inky blacks. Now that you can have good blacks and shadow detail, it's pretty exciting, especially at this price level.

Great news about the noise too.

I forgot about your biking activity. I've been working on mine lately because my son is now big enough to ride it and hold it up.

As to my recent activities, just slaying dragons.

You know, Joe, something were meant to be in shadow, and in the dark. Can you imagine someone making a movie called Pitch Almost-Black, or Almost-Dark City?

Hey Icon,

Remember this is a hobby for most of us here, not our jobs. So any wild hair we want to pursue is fair game. :)

I'm a big fan of scalers, because I've found that every display (especially the more affordable) shine their best when fed their native rate signal. I see a scaler as an enabler and a money saver. Now, just about any old source I have laying around is going to look great with my display. If you have a nice scaler then you can throw the DVD Player scores in Secret's shootout out the window. Now any DVD player you run through your scaler gets a perfect score. And not only DVD players, but every other source you have, or may get, will get the same perfect score.
I'm the same.

I love video processors, despite the fact that all rationality would suggest there are better ways to spend my money. And it doesn't even bother me if I spend more on the scaler than on the display. If I can keep my laserdiscs looking good, fool people into thinking VHS is DVD, and have good PQ for games even when blown up, then I'm happy.

When it comes to home theatre, rationality is an optional extra.

"This would not be too hard to do, if you like I could send you a link to a german site where the procedure is described for the old JVC G10 in detail."

Please post that link, I'd love to see it.

Thanks,

Shawn

Just remember, the Canon is far smaller than the G10. I'd be surprised if there is room for this kind of modification.

Joe, Dark City is better but still just OK in my opinion. Much as I like it, the Canon is no Qualia and never will be. I think what is most significant about this projector is the light engine and lens system. Paired with later generation LCOS chips in a projector designed for HT, it could be a real killer.

What do I need DVI for? The component output of my DVD player is as good as the DVI output from a number of sources. None of my other sources have HDCP. By the time I get to the point where this is an issue, I'll be on my next projector.

KISS--Keep It Simple Stupid! :D

Dan

I'm starting to see Dan's real plan - torture us all to death by not running the Canon at native rate through DVI!

Really though Dan, don't you have the VP30 on order? Or are you planning on using the VP30's component out? :)

2 days.

Ken

Ken, you must have missed all the discussion about this on the VP30 thread. If there is no HDCP in the source, there is no HDCP in the DVI output. Apparently the way the VP30 works is that HDCP detected in the source triggers the output protection. The VP30 is NOT a source, it is an interim processor. It will not add HDCP only recognize it.

I checked this out specifically with Josh and he said the VP30 will NOT blank out my display when run on DVI. NONE of my sources will be HDCP. OK? :)

Denon 3910 Component Out -> VP30 -> DVI Out 1400x1050@60.02Hz -> SX50 DVI In will be acceptable. I'll put the bottle of sleeping pills back in the cabinet now :)

Ken

When do we get your Cedia report, Ken? Stop bugging me and get to work up there. :D

Check out the new scalers real close, would you please? :)

Dan

I'm starting to see Dan's real plan - torture us all to death by not running the Canon at native rate through DVI!

Really though Dan, don't you have the VP30 on order? Or are you planning on using the VP30's component out? :)

2 days.

Ken
DVI DVI DVI DVI !!!!!!!!
And you can change "Old geezer" to "DONKEY STUBBORN"...........


Are you just going to wait it out ? Hey, I was going to donate out of frustration, but not now:). Somebody will eventually send you $300 out of pity because your driving all of us "component" nuts.

Dan,

"Just remember, the Canon is far smaller than the G10. I'd be surprised if there is room for this kind of modification."

If I recall it properly it is just a plate at the rear face of the lens after the optical block. It should be doable on most any projector.

But I ask as I have a G10. ;)

Shawn

Dan you gotta go DVI for this projector. The difference over RGB is noticeable (sharper) although I have not tried component.

Regards,
Dean

Understand Dean. Can't do it until the VP30 gets here. Component is softer than RGB, I've tried both.

Hmmm. I've started to think I might get a VW100 instead of an SX50... That's a worry...

Carled,

If I had a deidicated black theater with the room and budget, then I would be going with the Sony as well. But:

22"x20"x7" is a lot bigger than 11"x11"x4"
41 pounds is a lot more than 8.6 pounds
$10k-$12k is a lot more than $4k
800 lm is a lot less than 2000
610 W is a lot more power/heat than 290 W

So I don't think I'll be able to swing the new Sony.
If I had the room, I'd spend the money. But I don't and I won't.
I may still choose the HS-60.

Dan,

So Dean says DVI is the way to go and now all of the sudden its gospel. I see :)

Kne

Carled,

If I had a deidicated black theater with the room and budget, then I would be going with the Sony as well. But:

22"x20"x7" is a lot bigger than 11"x11"x4"
41 pounds is a lot more than 8.6 pounds
$10k-$12k is a lot more than $4k
800 lm is a lot less than 2000
610 W is a lot more power/heat than 290 W

So I don't think I'll be able to swing the new Sony.
If I had the room, I'd spend the money. But I don't and I won't.
I certainly agree on the brightness. My taste in images lies much closer to JHouse's than to the CRT/DLP crowd. Still, if I have it on full iris (3000:1 is still plenty), and use a high gain screen (Hi Power / Silverstar / Supernova), I think I might be able to achieve my desired results.

I've been waiting for 1080p LCoS for a very long time...

Ken, you haven't been reading my postings. I have ALWAYS stated that my setup when complete would be connected via DVI to the Canon. This is getting a little frustrating repeating it time after time. A number of folks who keep bringing that up apparently think the VP30, which is HDCP compliant, will not output over DVI to the non compliant Canon, EVEN THOUGH NONE OF THE SOURCES ARE HDCP.

I put this question SPECIFICALLY to Josh of DVDO. Here is his answer:

The iScan VP30's HDMI output will not have HDCP-encryption on it unless the iScan VP30 is processing an HDCP-encrypted source. So if all of your sources are non-HDCP and your display is non-HDCP, the iScan VP30 will not bring HDCP to the party.

This seems pretty clear to me, am I missing something?

Dan

This seems pretty clear to me, am I missing something?

Dan
Nope, you're right Dan.

A lot of people don't get the way HDCP works.

We're just yanking your chain you Budding Young Geezer!

We want to read your reaction when you get this thing as optimal as it can be, and it's fun to act impatient about it and rib you a little along the way.

Ken

Now, as regards cable, I am thinking I will order a cable that is HDMI both ends and use an adapter to hook it up to the Canon. The reason being that my next display will almost certainly be HDCP compliant and have an HDMI input. This make sense?

I need a 40' cable to get from my equipment rack to the projector. Where should I buy this cable to make sure I get one that operates properly over this distance?

Ken, if you don't stop yanking my chain and get busy on your Cedia report, we will have to cut your pay! :D

Dan

That's what I've done. All new digital cables are HDMI/HDMI and I use adapters if necessary.

monocables.com has the best prices and are reported to be good. (I haven't tried one myself) They have a 50 footer for $70.

Ram Electronics has what you're looking for 162.95. They may give an AVS Discount, not sure.

Kei would probably give you a deal on a 40 footer if the order included that "special" adapter. :)

Ken

Yeah, I saw the Ram electronics one and they have a 40 footer and also the right adapter. So I'll probably get it there. I don't want the cable to be any longer than it has to be, 50 foot is too long.

Are you at Cedia yet, Ken? When you get on the floor, would you take a real hard look at all the video processors and let us know what you find??

Dan

I won't be there until tomorrow. I'll have half a day on Friday through half a day Sunday.
I've got DVDO, Algolith, Anthem, Optoma, Gennum and Silicon Optix on my scaler list.
I'd like to check out some anamorphic lenses as well, but I don't see the usual suspects on the vender list.

Ken

800 lm is a lot less than 2000
How many lumens does the SX50 produce after calibrating to D65?

Don't know. The only person I know of that has claimed to have calibrated one is Pete Putnam of ProAV, and he didn't report the before and after lumens.

I've emailed him to ask about it and for the service codes to calibrate one myself.

Calibration may not be necessary as everyone (myself included) have reported excellent color. Dan thought it a bit oversaturated, but commented favorably about gray ramp display.

Ken

Calibration may not be necessary as everyone (myself included) have reported excellent color.
I don't doubt that the color is excellent, but if we are comparing lumens, I think it would be more fair to compare them at D65.

Please post the info if he replies. :)

Calibration might help the CR some, which would be desirable with this projector. It has brightness to burn, even on low lamp.

The color is superb!

Dan

Agreed, I can't fault the color on the projector. It would be interesting to run up a calibration DVD to check it though.

For CR, a DIY iris would be the way to go. Anyone game to open their projector up to have a look to see how this could be done?

Regards,
Dean

Dean,

I'll let you Monday for sure, but none of the new anounced projectors will work for me better than the SX50.

I'll definitely want to add an iris or a light baffle or two. Just looking through the screen on the side, I think there is low hanging fruit on stray light.

If we can get this to 1500:1 or higher then it will be ideal for my setup.

We really need the service codes.

Ken

What is the best way to get the service codes? Speak to a Canon tech? Start punching random buttons on the front panel for a couple of minutes and cross your fingers? Maybe the service menu code for other Canon projectors will work.

Would be good if William Phelps as the resident LCOS expert could take a look at it, but he can't do anything without the service codes & other engineering data.

Looking at the codes for the service port, it mimics the user menus so not much use.

Regards,
Dean

I went back "home" in Metairie Louisiana to retrieve some things including the SX50 which I was testing. It was high and dry as was my home/office but the area sure is beat up. I happen to be on a high end of the street (my slab is at sea level which is high for New Orleans). But many homes had water damage from street flooding and trees were fallen or cracked up all over the place including huge, old Oak trees. One in my neighbors yard fell toward my house right at my home theater area but it missed it by six inches. What a luck out. I cannot go home for three weeks or so till electrical and other services are restored.

I am still ``considering a driving trip out west, then up to Chicago and on to NY city, down to Atlanta and then back to New Orleans. It will be Wife, me and our dog Cami (Dalmatian). If any of you guys fall on or near my rough trip itinerary e-mail me your contact info and I will see if we can stop by.

Anyway, I sent back the SX50 and got the latest info on it. For one, all units currently in stock are supposed to have the dust fix installed. However if you are buying from dealers that stock product they could have ones without the fix. If you get one or have one that shows dust blobs (for USA model) you have to send it to Canon USA service for the fix. It cannot be done in the field.

I asked if Canon was going to Cedia and if any new products using LCOS were forthcoming. As has been noted here Canon is not going to Cedia however they are having their own expo of sorts at the same time. I asked if there were any new LCOS products coming or upgrades to the SX50 and I got the silent treatment. Perhaps that means something new or updated is coming?

Back to DVD players. The Momitsu I have in a word sucked via its DVI output. It was sharp but lacked color saturation. I could only use it in component mode. Then I started to read about the Oppo unit. I figured for $200 how could I loose and I didn't. It is a great DVD player via DVI. Like the SX50 it is not perfect but its DVI output shines and I doubt if you can take any component output from even the best DVD player in the world and process it and make it look as sharp as a Digital DVI to Digital DVI connection in the SX50 with no analog conversion involved in the food chain. And from what I have read the scaling processors in the Oppo itself are alleged to be pretty good. I still cannot believe the resistance here by some folks about giving the mere $200 Oppo investment a shot. And I though I was a penny pincher.

On the other hand, sure I would like to see my old VHS tapes and SD TV programming look HiDef. If there is a product that can do that and it is of reasonable cost and its DVI output matches the SX60's inputs, opps, sorry about the typo (just kidding) then kindly let me know and then I may leave you guys alone regarding the Oppo. I do watch a lot of regular TV. As of late it is CNN, MSNBC and Fox News while trying to see what is happening to the old home town. If you guys have that magic box out there that squeezes blood out of the proverbial SD signal turnip and makes it look near HiDef put one on order for me yesterday. By all means report on what you see of these at Cedia.

Icon Master
(Wandering about the USA and departing from Austin TX any day now)

I live in Albuquerque. PM me if you're passing through! Glad to hear your house survived the storm and flood, very good news indeed. I think the biggest problem down there will be getting the economy going again although the huge influx of reconstruction money should help a lot.

On the SX50, I am getting fantastic results from the output from my digital cable box VIA SVIDEO (can you believe it?) through the Faroudja NRS and then to the Canon via RGB and into the DVI/RGB input. The image is nicely sharp and the colors are very saturated.

By any chance, do you know what serial number starts the dust-fixed units?

The OTA HDTV (720P) and DVD (480P) results via component into the Canon on Input #2 are much less satisfactory. I think I'm going to move the DVD player back to the Faroudja. Can't figure out how to get the Faroudja to do the RGB pass through it is supposed to do or I would run the OTA HDTV signal that way too and eliminate the component feed to the Canon altogether. Picking up an adapter to have another go at this next week.

The best SD processing out there available immediately is a scaler with DCDI. If you've followed all the discussions on the scaler thread about the VP30 and the Sil504 chip, you know that it doesn't do well with video deinterlacing, not nearly as good as DCDi. However the VP30 is a very nice integrated solution that will scale exactly to the Canon's native rate. I am going to get around the Sil504 problem by running my SD through the NRS I own now and into the VP30 as XGA to be scaled up to the Canon's native rate.

That doesn't deal with the weakness of the OTA HDTV box deinterlacing for now. I'm expecting that DVDO will address this in their next generation and offer their usual very nice deal on upgrading. Apparently they're showing something at CEDIA that does this.

Happy travels Icon. Come see us!

ICON note: PM me if you're going to be in town. I'll be away until Sunday but if you leave a phone number, I'll call you Sunday afternoon.

Dan

Hey Icon, glad your home survived!

Where is Canon's show? Is it offsite here at Cedia? If so please post or PM.

Here's a deal for you. Get us the service code, and I'll buy an Oppo :)

Gotta run back to the show!

Ken

I hope I don't have to kick myself for buying in 2 weeks too early......

Nope, not in less you wanted to spend a whole lot more than we did on these Canons.

Now as to my latest experiments. I have now routed all sources through the Faroudja NRS. The LG HDTV tuner is fed to the NRS's RGB/HDTV pass through port. The SD/digital cable box is hooked up to the SVideo port. The Denon 3910 is set back to 480i and gets the DCDi treatment by the Faroudja.

The NRS is connected to the Canon via Computer 1/RGB analog and is inputting XGA to the projector. The component port is now disconnected.

I would say the image is less soft, but also a little noisier. Much simpler to operate. Now I am balancing tweaks between the NRS and the projector.

Now I have a big decision to make. Do I go ahead with the VP30 or wait for the DVDO answer to HQV and Gennum? Or wait for the HQV to get out there, get broken in and maybe drop in price some as the competition ramps up? Figuring a wait of about 6 months for the next generation DVDO if Mark Haflich is correct. Figure it will retail around $2500, be available from AVS for less, and I would save about $500 by waiting.

I can definitely live with this setup for 6 months to a year.

Opinions??

Dan,

Sounds like you're doing it right for now.

Realistically, my family is only going to watch DVD's and video games on the projector so for us the VP30 would be just fine. With your reference quality component out on your 3910, DVD's would look their absolute best.

I'm ready to order my SX50, but I have a few concerns:

1. Should I buy from your source Dan to get the latest rev?
2. If I measure an off grayscale, how will I correct it without the service code?

Here is my total purchase list:

1. SX50 (not optional)
2. Kei's Distirbution Amp (not optional)
3. Panamorph U-100 (optional)

I've already got a CS-2 scaler I'll use while I wait for the Gennum upgrade to my Anthem D1. Plus I have an upconverting Panny S97 DVD Player. My HD cable box has HDMI out with HDCP, but my DA should take care of that.

My screen choices are currently 92" HighPower, 80" WidePower, and 80" GrayWolf. (measurement is screen width)

I'll get it all setup before I decide to add an DIY iris. I did check the Warranty and only modifications that cause damage void the warranty.

If anyone has an idea of how to get the service code please post or PM.


Ken

I think I'm going to go ahead on the VP30 as well. It appears it will be some time before the "VP40" is available and the trade up deal should be good. This will enable me to hook the Denon up directly to the VP30 at 480P. Having tried it both ways, I'm finding the much older DCDi of the Faroudja can't compare with that in the much newer Denon. The performance of the DVD end of this current configuration leaves a lot to be desired.

It's interesting that on this projector, as with my previous one, the black level of the 720P, INCLUDING THE BLACK BARS ABOVE AND BELOW the 16:9 image is much better than when the Denon is the source. I noticed this on my old Sanyo as well.

Monday Night Football with the HDTV OTA tuner passing through the NRS (but not being modified) was simply stunning. It really confirmed that the DVI/RGB input of the Canon is MUCH sharper than the RGB/component port.

Now I'm working on coming up with a light shield arrangement that will sit on the front of my pedestal and eliminate the halo light scatter of the projector. Should have this ready to go shortly, will post a picture.

Dan

Dan,

Remind us how far your throw is and your image/screen size......

Thanks

-Riz

Riz, throw is 16.5 feet and screen is 106" diagonal 4:3.

Dan, I created a light shield that you are describing to test it out, and in a totally dark room with the projector displaying 100% black, I could not make out any difference in the contrast ratio (at least by sight).

If you pass an object in front of the lens, I expected to see a sharp transition from no image to image, but due to the convergence of the lens this is not the case, the image slowly transitions to full intensity so your light shield needs to be larger than the image you see if you look at the lens. I'm not describing this very well, try with a straight object to mask the top of the image next to the lens and you will see what I mean.

If you have better luck, let me know. Interesting to know about the warranty, a DIY mask behind the lens may produce better results.

Regards,
Dean

Dean, in my setup the light spill outside of the screen frame is distracting. The worse part is below the screen, I already tested a baffle for that and it markedly improves the situation. The next worst area is above the screen.

Part of the problem is that the screen is mounted on a wall that has semi-gloss paint on it. Wife says no painting it flat black. So I need to block the light.

I set the bottom baffle just below the point where the very bottom of the actual image is being reflected on the top of the baffle. The light spill is thereby limited to the wide vellum frame of the Stewart screen, which can handle it. It is fully blocked from the painted area below the screen.

I'll post photos when I have it done.

Dan

The best place for the mask is right behind the lens as Dean says. The image should be fully formed and sharp, thus easily maskable without the blurry edge. It would also increase CR.

Ken

Hey, I just read about "Canon Expo 2005" yesterday in New York. This must be the show Icon was talking about.

Did you go Icon or anyone?

Sounds pretty big:

"Canon EXPO 2005 in New York is an over 150,000 square foot exhibition1 of consumer, business, and industrial imaging technology"

Ken

Ken, I'm sure it is. But I ain't gonna open up and fool with something I just paid nearly $4 grand for, nope! :D

Do I recall correctly that this was a problem when JVC was using this chip and they solved it with internal masking?

You'd be surprised how well the out front mask works. We're not talking about a huge area of light spill. It is a well defined halo right around the main image.

Dan

Just completed the masking setup and tried it out. EXCELLENT! It is about 6" in front of the lens and made up of a square 4:3 frame of 1/2" x 5" wood, painted gloss black on the front to match the pedestal. The side toward the projector is covered with black, light absorbing felt.

You can clearly see the round halo that was lighting up the area outside of my screen's frame. Now, there is virtually NO light outside the frame.

Ugly but effective. I'll post pictures soon.

I've got this image perfectly framed now for all sources. The projector puts out a very true image shape wise. I am lucky in that I was able to absolutely optimize the projector location in terms of elevation. I have nearly zero keystone.

I'm lovin' it. This is a great little projector. :)

Dan

Dan,

That halo is actually "Bias Lighting" to improve CR :)

Yeah, I'm surprised JVC didn't give them a few pointers on the that.

I'm waiting on an email or call and I'll have my SX50 ordered.

Let's see that handiwork!

Ken

It's ordered! :) :) :)

Lot's of research went into this one! I can't believe I'm finally going to own a Qualia Beater! And since I just got back from Cedia, I know! :)

If thebland is real nice to me I'll let him come see my setup and get some tips. :)

I should get the DA and the projector at the same time so I'll have HD cable over HDMI/DVI, Panny S97 at 720P, and my HTPC exactly matched over DVI.

We don't need no stinking analog. (can't afford good analog anyway :) )

Going to have to bribe someone for that service code.


Ken

Just completed the masking setup and tried it out. EXCELLENT! It is about 6" in front of the lens and made up of a square 4:3 frame of 1/2" x 5" wood, painted gloss black on the front to match the pedestal. The side toward the projector is covered with black, light absorbing felt.I did something similar with black velvet. It helps quite a bit with the overspill yet it doesn't impact the image at all. If you follow the link in my signature (about halfway down the page) you can see the results.

Ken, the SX50 is a great projector for the $$ but I would not say that it beats the Qualia. I think you will be very happy with your new addition when it arrives. Just be sure to run it at native panel resolution over DVI.

Dan, maybe your room setup is different to mine, but I dont have a problem with stray light outside the image. I have timber cabinetry all around my screen, which is in an alcove so I suppose the timber absorbs any overspill light.

THe mask behind the lens is interesting, it has the potential to improve the CR. You can see a similar setup for the JVC projectors at www.cine4home.de.

Regards,
Dean

Dean,

Notice the :) in my post. I was just trying to flush out Icon :)

I demoed the new Sony Ruby several times at Cedia, so I'll know how far off I am. I just don't have the room or the light control for the Ruby.

I'm a bit concerned about reviewers stating that only the Lumagen scaler worked well. My scaler, the Focus Enhancements CS-2, was listed along with the DVDO HD as looking "soft" even at 1400x1050.

I'm hoping they just missed something. I've got the control software to generate custom rates if I need to. I also have my HTPC with Power Strip. So I will attain perfection.

Have you messed around with the 6-axis color adjust or Color Balance setttings? I'm wondering if the Color Balance and Color Level are actually Gains and Biases? If so, we can calibrate without the service menu.

I'm not having much luck getting service info. An ISF friend checked the ISF resources and came up empty.

Ken

Dean, sounds like it. Unfortunately, I have a semi-gloss painted wall behind my screen. Any light outside of the image and the frame of the screen is highly reflected back. But I can assure you that halo is definitely there. You can see it clearly on the inside of my light baffle. Gone now though. :)

Charles, that's a beautiful setup and great looking house you have there, my compliments. I was with you all the way until that last photo of your very handsome house--snow, ugh! :D

As for the scalers, I wonder if they also set the vertical and horizontal frequencies to factory spec. The Canon has this slightly weird 60.02 horizontal frequency spec.

Ken, the only place I see serious "soft" is when using the RGB/component input. By all means, please report on your experiences with feeding the projector native resolution as soon as you get set up.

My Pint-sized Qualia is sitting on my desk. Should I open it?

It should be fairly new stock. I know it shipped from Canon on Aug. 15. Hopefully that means dust blob fix.

Ken

My Pint-sized Qualia is sitting on my desk. Should I open it?
What are you... a masochist or something? :D
-Matt

Ken,

I have not played with the color settings as the projector colors look right to me with both test patterns and video material, however as I'm projecting onto a sheet at the moment I wont bother until the real screen arrives. I have had a couple of false starts with organising a screen with local suppliers which has been frustrating, and I'll have to import a screen from a stateside dealer (Stewart screens are ridiculously expensive here) which will be more delays.

One the screen is in place I want to buy the Spyder and have a go at calibration as well as DIY internal iris. Hopefully the user menu will be sufficient, especially as the colors dont appear to be too far out (with my white sheet anyway!).

Let us know your first impressions.

Dan, you are right, there is a slight blue halo around the image on my unit also, which falls of the screen but effectively masked in my setup. Your setup with a semigloss wall would be a problem.

Regards,
Dean

Enjoying this image. If you want to rival the Ruby then you'll need bright HD material like the Ruby demo had. And you will be very close to the Ruby on bright HD material.

On darker material I'm getting great shadow detail, but also what looks like 8bit processing in some of the backgrounds. It might be my CS-2 scaler.

I've decided to focus on my CS-2 scaler as the input for now. I did not like the scaling on the Panny S97 or the Canon. I downloaded a 1400x1050 resolution from FE's website and am now using that with the Panny's 480i component out.

This thing has great shade resolution. On my own test patterns for black and white that go from 0-62 to set the black level and 219-255 to set the white level you can see a distinct shade for each value if you choose. Of course I calibrated levels to 16 and 235. I've never seen more stars on space scenes

We're watching Empire Strikes Back right now. When we're done I'm going to try driving my scaler with HDMI out at 480p from the Panny. Might clean up some crud. Kei's "distribution amp" works great.

I do have one dust blob but its not on a panel. It's out of focus somewhere after the beams are reunited. I can defocus the image and almost focus the blob. It is extremely faint when the image is focused.

Strangely I'm kind of happy about it. It's not interfering with the image too much, but it could be my ticket to a replacement projector from Canon if I choose.

Wish I had my Gennum scaler already and your 3910 Dan for its perfect component out. I could then narrow down sources of noise.

Black Level is not bad, detail is great, bright clean scenes and HD are as good as I've seen. It also makes the best giant computer monitor I've ever used. Can't wait to hook up the kids Gamecube.

One thing really nice the 1.7x zoom. You can put it up close on the coffee table or you can long throw it from the back of the room. Very nice.

Colors look good for the most part. Green looks a bit lime, which you would expect on such a bright projector. I'll hook up my EyeOne and measure the colors and grayscale pretty soon. Hopefully this weekend.

A friend of mine is going to bring over his color correction filter kit, (every CC filter Kodak makes!) and get rid of the blue black. Although its hardly bothersome. I think it may grow tiresome to look at.

All for now.

Oh yeah, pretty loud in bright mode, but fine in normal mode.

Ken

Finally played with a SX50 few days ago.

Source is a HTPC (Radeon 9800) in DVI 1:1 1400x1050. Default low lamp mode color temp is close to D65 with just minor tweak on R/G/B control. Color looks decent.

Major problem is there are visible horizontal AND vertical banding at around 0.5" width (and height) at around mid APL scene, on a 86" wide 16x9 Stewart StudioTek screen. Is this 8-par shading issue?

Also at 59.94hz there is major tearing around a 3-4mins interval. The PDF manual list 60.02Hz for 1400x1050. The big tearing gone but still there seems some random subtle tearing.

The SX50 sounds like a great projector 6 months ago (besides the dread 8-par shading issue) but now with all the upcoming models, it is not that attractive with a much weaker contrast ratio in comparison...

regards,

Li On

Li On,

Did you set your output to 60.02Hz? I see random subtle tearing, but I haven't set my output for 60.02Hz.

I greatly improved the banding by going to dvi in on my CS-2 and then turning on the mpeg noise removal on the S97.

What other choices are coming up for bright, affordable LCOS?

Ken

Hi Li On,

Greetings. Did you get a chance to run arca's judder test software at 48 and 50 hz refresh rate?

Enjoyed reading your posts. Thank you.

I tried 60.02hz. Big tearing gone but still some random subtle tearing. I didn't run the ReClock judder test if that's what you asked.

regards,

Li On

Hi Li On,

Arca's judder test software, not reclock. His JVC HX2 runs judder free at 48/50/60 Hz. Wonder if the SX50 belongs to the same class.

Thanks.

Please share more info in relation to the "8-par shading issue". I haven't found any references to such problem and I was planning on buying the projector. What is it the question about and how big of a problem is this with the Canon? And if you can provide me with info on a good German webstore that would sell the Canons with the dust problem fixed and would send the to another EU-contry with COD/payment by Visa, I would appreciate the info very much.

Here is a color chart showing the SX50 primaries and secondaries after tweaking the 6-axis color control.

How good is it? I'm not sure - too tired! :)

I used Jeff Meier's (umr) excellent DCS Pro software with my EyeOne Pro to measure these results.

Colors look even better now.

Bad news is my dust blob count is up to six now :(

Boys had fun playing Gamecube on it all day long though.

Ken

Ken,

Looks close (but I'm no expert). Did you find you had to make significant adjustments?

Regards,
Dean

Dean,

They were pretty close to what you see there to begin with. It was kinda neat to get to dial them in though. Green is the only bad boy, but I've seen the lime green on all of the (few) projectors I've measured. (mainly DLP) I wish I would have made a color chart when I had the HS51 here.

Anyway, I was happy to finally see proper yellow.

So frustrating that I can't have it all. At least not at the same time. These dust blobs and contouring/banding keep it from being ideal.

I need the SX50's resolution, fill factor, brightness, and size combined with the HS-51/Qualia near perfect 12 bit post gamma video processing.

Boy did the SX50 look nice on The Incrdedibles after dialing in the colors though! If this was the only demo material allowed most on this forum would trade in their projectors in a hearbeat I believe.

Ken

Boy did the SX50 look nice on The Incrdedibles after dialing in the colors though! If this was the only demo material allowed most on this forum would trade in their projectors in a hearbeat I believe.

Ken

If only it were 16 x 9 you would probably be right.

So many companys have given up with and failed with this technology Im betting the dust blob issue alone has cost them a lot of money and Im betting the majority of all complaints came from HT users ( rightfully so ) and that could add to the cause they will never enter the HT market. We are very high maintanence :)

I wonder if they will make it in the long run manufacturing Lcos machines. Will it become to problematic.

Dean,
They were pretty close to what you see there to begin with. It was kinda neat to get to dial them in though. Green is the only bad boy, but I've seen the lime green on all of the (few) projectors I've measured. (mainly DLP) I wish I would have made a color chart when I had the HS51 here.
Ken

Ken -

Just curious. Which presentation mode setting are you using? I eventually settled on the sRGB mode.

If your dust blob count is rising that fast then you need to get the unit repaired or swapped. The one I had that was fixed was run by me for ten hours a day for nearly two months and it had zero dust blobs and I delibertly didn't clean the filter (since it was a borrowed unit). I reluctantly returned that unit to Canon with their promise that the current units in the factory (not dealer) stock have all been fixed and if one does slip through with the issue, the repair folks will fix it for free and quickly. They are also supposed to provide a free loaner while doing the repair if done during the first year.

Icon Master

Alan,

I agree with your logic. But since it is a first try, perhaps Canon still has some will left.

Although, if they are not making money with this projector it's probably market position. It's a business presentation projector, but its not available through Canon business channels. So if you can only buy it through HT projector channels then why not make it more HT friendly?

At its price, I think most would overlook all of its low points except these blobs.

Icon,

Standard. I switched over to Cinema and had the same colors. Didn't measure sRGB though.

Ken

I'm using sRGB also...

Even though I keep my Canon in "quiet" mode, I am an audiophile, so the next upgrade/purchase I am considering is a WhisperFlow hushbox.

I sent some inquiring email to Dave Beatty and he replied with all the needed info along with these pics. I thought I should post them in case other Canon users are interested.

-Riz

I'm using Cinema mode. What do you guys think the benefit is of sRGB mode?

I may have a couple of dust blobs but cannot see them on any material as of yet. I figure the warranty is so good I'll just wait and send it in when it gets to be a real problem. Hopefully that will be AFTER football season. :D

Ken, it sounds like you're WAY ahead of the rest of us in the tweaking department. Could you post a summary of what you've done?

Interesting, the "blue black" thing doesn't seem to bother me much, if at all. I'm wondering if the Firehawk screen has something to do with this? I did back blue off a couple of ticks as well.

Dan

(reposting this from other thread)

Dan,

Yeah to HDTV. I'm watching the Falcons and Seahawks right now. Watched an HD movie on INHD2. Now this is what I'm talkin'bout!

This little wonder loves HDTV over DVI. (TWC) I'm sitting just over 1/2 screen width back and its smooth as silk and very detailed. (yes, 0.5X) HD Sports lovers would be pleased with this image.

Makes me think that DVD should look much better with a good scaler. Maybe my CS-2 is lacking.

Tomorrow night I'll get to see some D-VHS over component, but I'm not sure what to expect over component. Wish I had one of the new HDMI players, but it's not a format I'm willing to invest in.

Lens shift would be nice.

I'm thinking Grayhawk RS and you'll be good for almost any lighting condition.

Ken

Dan,

Tweaking is mainly figuring out which input, which resolution, who does the scaling, who does the deinterlacing.

I did optimize the colorimetry and I like skin tones more now. There may be a better way than I did it. A friend of mine has some ideas to try. I'll try to measure sRGB and see if its any different.

Ooh. Just tried the GrayWolf. Not good. The heavy texture doesn't mix well with this projector. A smooth gray screen would make this an all-weather rig.

Rarely notice the Blue Black.

This thing is definitely Blue-Ray Ready.

Ken

Rizman!

Wow nice custom wisperflow. I bet anyone visiting would never know a projector is in there.

Ken, you illustrated the SX50's primary color ability after "slight tweaking". Said you were able to get close to 6500K. Did you check the temperature at lower IRE's with that initial 100-80 IRE touch up ?

JimmyR,

I didn't do anything to calibrate grayscale. You can see on my chart that it is to the left of D65 which is typical.

D65 is .312 .329 and I measured .299 .324 or an error of .013 in x and .005 in y.

This is not bad because of the small error in y which means no green shift in gray - my least favorite error. This slight amount of extra blue is not objectionable.

That whisperflow is cool. I especially like the anamorphic lens.

Ken

Rizman!
Wow nice custom wisperflow. I bet anyone visiting would never know a projector is in there.

Eee-gads!! With that Whisperflow we'd end up with an installation bigger than a Qualia. Remember, this unit is dubbed the mini Qualia killer. From what I have read in other posts by folks who tried them, there was little gain in brightness. It introduces complexity and image distortion and yes it would likely be quieter but in low lumen mode on the ceiling this unit is not very loud. If you are shooting for a 150" screen or bigger and need to switch to the louder standard lamp mode, instead of using a hush box, you can use the long throw setting of the lens and get the unit wwaaayy back. Adjusting the zoom I was able to place the unit in a range of approx 16 feet to 26 feet back filling my 11 foot diagonal screen. You have a lot of placement range to work with with the zoom range of the SX50's Canon optics lens. So if the noise bugs you, put it in the next room. :)

Icon Master

If there was a room there, I would, but the fact is that the projector is as far back in my 25' room as it can go and it is against an exterior wall.....

My throw is roughly 24 feet, filling a 139"x78" (158" diag) 16x9 screen.

It looks great in low lamp mode, but as an audiophile, I'd like to lower the noise floor even more, and for me, this may be the only option.

SX50 has no problem to obtain 1:1 mapping at 1400x1050 and 1400x788 via DVI input. But tearing occurs at both resolutions. There is no tearing at 720P. The on/off contrast ratio is 533:1 after D65 calibration.

This is an important post for all SX-50 owners!

Spent last evening with Jeff Meier (umr) and the Godfather of Projectors evaluating and calibrating my SX50. We had an Accupel signal generator, Lightspex Spectroradiometer, Philips colorimeter, and various sources. Test disc's were DVE and Avia Pro. (Avia Pro is the best disc I've seen by far)

We were able to get fabulous colors for the brighter two thirds of the IRE scale and determine the best input settings.

The big surprise for me was how good the component input performs. Using the Accupel we determined 1080i through component has excellent resolution and color once calibrated.

Here are the results:

DVI - Use 720P and set to TRUE SIZE
Component - Use 1080i

Image Settings:

Color Adjust: Red +7, Green 0, Blue -3
Color Axis Adjust: No Correction

Use Avia or THX Optimizer to set your levels, but mine came out:

Contrast: -5
Brightness: 0

Once D65 was attained all of the colors were very nice. Red was a tad orange on color bars. Color decoding was near optimal.

Getting the color right made such a huge difference on real material. I hope thes color adjustments will be close across projectors.

On component in, 720P was not bad either, but 1080i was best. On DVI, you must use TRUE SIZE if you don't want ugly scaler artifacts.

We were able to correct the blue blacks with correction filters, but the lack of bias adjustments on the primaries makes it impossible to get the color balance back. So no go on color correction filters.

In the beginning we were running 480P into the DVI input and saw tearing on certain video scenes. I have yet to go back and evaluate this tearing at 720P True Size and/or 1080i/720p component.

This tearing is pretty much a show stopper. I hope a good scaler can match the rogue 60.02 refresh and get rid of this. (DVDO VP30 is probably best bet, since DVDO has pretty much promised to get us the 60.02 Hz)

The other potential show stopper are the dust blobs. I've got dust blob city on my unit and I am in the process of getting it replaced or sending it back.

Pros: Bright! Hi Rez Great Color on brighter material, small and light, NO PIXELS
Cons: so-so dark rendering. Dust Blobs, Tearing

I'll try to test the 720P/TS and 1080i component for tearing and update my findings. I don't have much hope though. I think a scaler or HTPC at 60.02 will be the only way to get rid of tearing.

One note on component. Although the Canon's input tested well, my Time Warner Cable box component out is horrible compared to the HDMI output. The HDMI port looked pretty good, but we felt the picture wasn't as sharp as it should be. Could be TWC resampling the HD.

We had a D-VHS Player to test 1080i/720P component input with known good material, but unfortunately the remote was missing and only 480P output was available. Maybe we'll get to retest if I get a dust free unit.

So for DVD the best option (if you ignore possible tearing) is Icon's suggested Oppo Player ($200) It doesn't have HDCP and so you can set it to 720P and set the SX50 to True Size. (Does the Oppo also scale on its component outs?)

Try out those R,G,B adjustments and report back! (remember its not the 6-axis Color, but the panel with just the 3 settings for R, G, and B)

Ken

CKL,

That's great to hear you see no tearing on 720P. I can't wait to check it out. Since 720P True Size is the only DVI setting that worked really well with Accupel test patterns this is huge.

Can you report your RGB adjustments to see how well they match mine?

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,

I would add the blacks did not track very well at all below about 20% level which is poor even for LCOS. The optics did not look good to me when used at anything much beyond the minimum zoom. I was also disappointed with the on/off contrast ratio.

The rumors of this being a killer projector appear to me to be greatly exaggerated.

Jeff,

Yeah, thus my qualification that the colors were nice in the upper 2/3's of brightness.

I'm afraid I have to agree that the dark performance is not adequate unless we can get access to the bias adjustments. Doesn't seem too likely at this point.

I'm still going to reserve final judgement untill I/we get a chance to go back and re-watch our review material using our findings. Remember that we determined the 720P/TrueSize setting after we reviewed DVD. The Canon's scaler is definitely inferior and has to be avoided.

And we never got a chance to view real material at 1080i component.

Not saying it will change your conclusion, but I believe it should be based on viewing with the optimal settings/inputs and we never did that.

Ken

Ken and Jeff-
What CR did you measure when calibrated?
-Matt

Ken and Jeff,
Did you happen to measure the x,y chromaticity coordinates of the primaries?

Ken,

I know we did not get to look at everything with its optimal inputs, but I found several problems to be showstoppers irrespective of that just based on the signal generator performance which was input in an optimal way. Those include dust blobs, lens performance and low level gray scale performance. I don't see those changing unless we get some serious help from Canon.

Ken, I'm not sure why you thought I would be surprised by your findings. I would like to offer several comments.

First off, Jeff, this statement that the projector is "poor" compared to other LCOS, is made on what basis? Certainly, if you compare this unit to any previous calibrated LCOS I've no doubt the black/CR will come up wanting. But are you comparing apples and apples?

If, for example, WM were able to calibrate this unit the way he does other LCOS, the lumens out would be much much less than they are. There's no doubt there is a tradeoff here, brightness for CR and black. I've seen uncalibrated and calibrated SX21 LCOS projectors. Yeah, you can definitely get much better black if you sacrifice 2/3rds of the lumens. Probably could do that with this one as well. Not everyone wants that.

When I compare uncalibrated SX21 with uncalibrated Canon, IMHO there's no contest. The Canon wins hands down. Remember, both are using the same 4:3 LCOS chips.

The black and CR is many orders of magnitude better than the LCD I replaced with this unit. I'm of the opinion that ultimately, by far the best HT projector is going to be 1080P three chip DLP. I don't think LCD, LCOS or SXRD will really be able to keep up with DLP in the CR and black area. However, I also think affordable three chip 1080P DLP is a LONG way off. I'm hoping I can afford one in three years to replace this one.

Can't comment on the lens statement since I have the projector at near minimum zoom. The brightness uniformity across the screen looks pretty good with that setup to me and I am able to frame the image nearly perfectly in the frame of my screen. I'm just thrilled the projector has long throw--it's darn near impossible to find a long throw projector in this price range.

Wow, I'm really impressed with the red boost on your settings. Mine are much milder: +1 red, -3 green, -3 blue. Knocking the blue down a bit definitely helps the blue-black situation. I tried boosting red and found everyone looked embarrassed.

Not surprised at the tearing problem with the 480P input, it has been reported this is an issue plus I don't know anyone who really thinks this projector has an acceptable scaler or deinterlacer. Josh of DVDO has reported I'll be able to set the VP30 to output at exactly the Canon's native resolution and horizontal and vertical frequencies.

I continue to believe the best thing about this projector is the light engine. If you could somehow give it the same kind of calibration that the JVCs get, I'd wager it could compete with them on CR and black, but with twice the lumens still remaining.

BTW, you didn't mention whether you were running on high lamp or low lamp. Blacks are definitely better on the latter IMO. Also, what screen were you using? I am thinking my Firehawk helps with the blue-black situation, it just isn't all that noticeable here.

Ken and Jeff, thanks millions for some really interesting observations. :)

Dan

Jeff,

Agreed, but allow us the enjoyment of the pursuit :)

How much fun would any of this be if every display showed up perfect?

Erik,

If you'll look back a page you'll find a plot of my primaries.

Matt,

Didn't measure after cal, but max CR came in at 980:1 in low lamp mode

Ken

Dan,

I simply don't like this projector based on what I saw at Ken's house for home theater use. It is fine with me if you or anyone else does.

Jeff,

Agreed, but allow us the enjoyment of the pursuit :)

...

No problem. I enjoy tinkering as well.

Dan,

You make some good points. What other options are there in this price range with the brightness, throw, resolution, size?

Give me a small, bright, SXRD and I'll buy it. But there isn't one, and there isn't one planned AFAIK.

Ken

Dan,

You make some good points. What other options are there in this price range with the brightness, throw, resolution, size?

Give me a small, bright, SXRD and I'll buy it. But there isn't one, and there isn't one planned AFAIK.

Ken

KDS-R50XBR1 ;)

Ken, exactly. But you guys didn't answer my questions fully though I am assuming low lamp from the CR number you gave above. What screen did you use?

I'm just concerned you guys didn't really approach this from a real world perspective. I would have liked to see you using a native rate scaler or HTPC for input so you could take the Canon's poor scaler totally out of the trial. If you used a white screen, IMHO that is the wrong screen to use with this projector. Any configuration that used the Canon's scaler is going to come up short as well. The superior image with the 720P source, which I have seen also, is the tip off that this projector has potential if set up right.

The light efficiency of the Canon light engine is really what is important with this projector. Sure, the new Sony SXRD is far better on CR and black. But it barely managers 800 lumens with a 400 watt Xenon lamp!

This is the problem I see with all current approaches to LCOS and SXRD. They use brute force, expensive, lamps at the input end to eke out only adequate lumens at the screen. Or if they use smaller lamps, they really are dim.

I sure would like to see some of the LCOS/SXRD people seeing what they could do with Canon's light engine. I think there's real room for improvement on that end of the projector and Canon has shown that even though this is really not an HT unit.

I don't think this projector should be considered by anyone who wants a 16:9 setup, is OK with short throw and has very good light control. There are better projectors out there right now for this situation and much better ones coming. My preferences and requirements are atypical and my choices were very limited, essentially nil, in this price range. With that in mind, this was a great solution, exceeding my expectations and very easy on the wallet as well. Altogether, projector, scaler and spare lamp, I'll be well under what my last projector alone cost me.

BTW Ken, it really sounds like you have the older unmodified unit. I think you should consider sending it back now rather than waiting.

I'm taking the Grayhawk screen to FedEx shortly. Will be sending it ground.

Dan

Dan,

I have another unit on the way. Supposed to be here Friday. I told them I would try it, but if it has/gets dust blobs its going back.

We were in Quiet mode. Normal mode is too loud for me.
True Size takes the Canon scaler out of the equation.

I have a very nice HTPC and I have run it into the SX50, but I did not go to the trouble to setup 60.02 refresh.

I really don't want to run HTPC normally though. I want a DVD player with a scaler.
I watched a little DVD today in 720P/DVI/TrueSize and didn't see any tearing.

Next I'm going to run 1080i or 720p component out from my scaler and see how that goes.

I don't know on the GH. I'll certainly take it and give it a try, but I don't know if I'll have an SX50 this time next week. We'll see.

Ken

CKL,

That's great to hear you see no tearing on 720P. I can't wait to check it out. Since 720P True Size is the only DVI setting that worked really well with Accupel test patterns this is huge.

Can you report your RGB adjustments to see how well they match mine?

Thanks,
Ken

Sorry, I didn't write down the setting of RGB adjustments. But I remember I did raise the red and lower the blue (similar to yours). I've returned SX50 to Canon HK. I'm very surprised that its default color temp is quite closed to 6500K. From what I measured, 30-100IRE is around 6800-6900K.

I think the black level is too high. 0IRE at low lamp mode is 0.48 lux at 92inch diagonal (16:9). The decent black level should be 0.1lux or below. 0-10IRE is bluish and I found three dust blobs at the dark scene. It is a demo unit at around 100 hrs. It is strange that there are several dust-like-blobs at the bright scene which are not at the same posistion as the aforesaid dust blobs.

I think JVC HX2 has better overall performance. HX2 is selling USD1000 more than SX50 in Hong Kong. I think the extra $1k is worth. But HX2 is much dimmer than SX50.

Interesting findings guys however unless you get a "fixed" SX50 then you will likely end up with dust blobs. I don't know your source, but if dust blobs show up then the unit might have to go back to service for the fix if your source keeps pulling from a batch of unfixed inventory. The "fixed" unit I had ran for almost two months and had zero dust blobs. The other two units I tested - one early production unit came loaded with dust blobs and the second had none but after a month had about twenty. The fixed one with no precautions and no filter cleaning had zero at the beginning and zero when I returned it.

On the tearing issue, you guys have me stumped. Except for the Oppo DVD unit connected to the DVI port, I ran a single component cable to my SX50 from a four port component switcher. I fed the unit 720P from my Direct TV HD TIVO Receiver and 1080i from the HiDef decoder of my big dish 4DTV receiver. I never saw any image tearing. I tried the 1080i output of the Direct TV receiver but it did not seem to improve the image quality but as you heard me say in prior posts, the 1080i output from the big dish with a well encoded movie like those on HBO HiDef was absolutely stunning. I am sure the big dish has less MPEG compression (if any) and it shows. Could the source of this tearing be the cable box?

Why would you even want to feed this unit 480 anything? As previously stated I used the 720P setting of the OPPO DVD unit via DVI and I never saw tearing there and rarely did I see the OPP's lip sync issue which seems to be related to some DVDs or fooling with OPPO settings while watching the movie.

Or perhaps it is the scalers and various software you guys are using that this unit is choking or mistiming on? Being a cheap purist I kept it simple and used the outputs of the devices mentioned and did no scaling/processing in between. Have you even tried to go the simple direct connect approach (at 720P)?

Still in Austin and no HiDef anything here in the hotel. The Saints looked bad in SD and probably worse in HiDef. :)

Icon Master

Interesting findings guys however unless you get a "fixed" SX50 then you will likely end up with dust blobs. I don't know your source, but if dust blobs show up then the unit might have to go back to service for the fix if your source keeps pulling from a batch of unfixed inventory. The "fixed" unit I had ran for almost two months and had zero dust blobs. The other two units I tested - one early production unit came loaded with dust blobs and the second had none but after a month had about twenty. The fixed one with no precautions and no filter cleaning had zero at the beginning and zero when I returned it.

On the tearing issue, you guys have me stumped. Except for the Oppo DVD unit connected to the DVI port, I ran a single component cable to my SX50 from a four port component switcher. I fed the unit 720P from my Direct TV HD TIVO Receiver and 1080i from the HiDef decoder of my big dish 4DTV receiver. I never saw any image tearing. I tried the 1080i output of the Direct TV receiver but it did not seem to improve the image quality but as you heard me say in prior posts, the 1080i output from the big dish with a well encoded movie like those on HBO HiDef was absolutely stunning. I am sure the big dish has less MPEG compression (if any) and it shows. Could the source of this tearing be the cable box?

Why would you even want to feed this unit 480 anything? As previously stated I used the 720P setting of the OPPO DVD unit via DVI and I never saw tearing there and rarely did I see the OPP's lip sync issue which seems to be related to some DVDs or fooling with OPPO settings while watching the movie.

Or perhaps it is the scalers and various software you guys are using that this unit is choking or mistiming on? Being a cheap purist I kept it simple and used the outputs of the devices mentioned and did no scaling/processing in between. Have you even tried to go the simple direct connect approach (at 720P)?

Still in Austin and no HiDef anything here in the hotel. The Saints looked bad in SD and probably worse in HiDef. :)

Icon Master

Interesting findings guys however unless you get a "fixed" SX50 then you will likely end up with dust blobs. I don't know your source, but if dust blobs show up then the unit might have to go back to service for the fix if your source keeps pulling from a batch of unfixed inventory. The "fixed" unit I had ran for almost two months and had zero dust blobs. The other two units I tested - one early production unit came loaded with dust blobs and the second had none but after a month had about twenty. The fixed one with no precautions and no filter cleaning had zero at the beginning and zero when I returned it.

On the tearing issue, you guys have me stumped. Except for the Oppo DVD unit connected to the DVI port, I ran a single component cable to my SX50 from a four port component switcher. I fed the unit 720P from my Direct TV HD TIVO Receiver and 1080i from the HiDef decoder of my big dish 4DTV receiver. I never saw any image tearing. I tried the 1080i output of the Direct TV receiver but it did not seem to improve the image quality but as you heard me say in prior posts, the 1080i output from the big dish with a well encoded movie like those on HBO HiDef was absolutely stunning. I am sure the big dish has less MPEG compression (if any) and it shows. Could the source of this tearing be the cable box?

Why would you even want to feed this unit 480 anything? As previously stated I used the 720P setting of the OPPO DVD unit via DVI and I never saw tearing there and rarely did I see the OPP's lip sync issue which seems to be related to some DVDs or fooling with OPPO settings while watching the movie.

Or perhaps it is the scalers and various software you guys are using that this unit is choking or mistiming on? Being a cheap purist I kept it simple and used the outputs of the devices mentioned and did no scaling/processing in between. Have you even tried to go the simple direct connect approach (at 720P)?

Still in Austin and no HiDef anything here in the hotel. The Saints looked bad in SD and probably worse in HiDef. :)

Icon Master

There is a "special edition" sx50 sold at this site:

http://www.dia-maier.de/Beamer-HDAV/

It incorporates a new firmware.

Maybe it solves tearing issues and your unit came with it.

I have never seen tearing on this unit after 100+ hours using a HTPC with TRUESIZE and native panel resolution, standard PC 60Hz (not 60.02). I run the lens at near minimum zoom and get razor sharp images.

Dont bother with this projector if you are forced to use its internal scalar. There is a visible quality difference between the scalar in use and passthrough.

Regarding the bias adjustments, if we could find access to the service menu then it may be possible to adjust the bias and use correction filters.

Regards,
Dean

I haven't seen tearing inputting to this unit the XGA output of my NRS either. I am also using minimum zoom and the optics appear very good. Input to the DVI/RGB port is much sharper than input to the RGB/component port. 720P sources "passed thru" via the DVI/RGB port are very good. The projector is so bright I use only the low lamp mode.

I'll be replacing this temporary setup with the DVDO VP30 inputting DVI directly at the projector's native rate and native horizontal and vertical frequencies.

No dust problems yet, I'm watching this one closely.

Well, that's encouraging. Perhaps my new unit will have the fix. Like I said my first unit shipped from Canon on Aug. 15th.

We were using sophisticated equipment. There was tearing by the Canon.

The problem is that if it gets here Friday, I'll probably be in Austin as well avoiding Rita!

Ken

Well, that's encouraging. Perhaps my new unit will have the fix. The problem is that if it gets here Friday, I'll probably be in Austin as well avoiding Rita!
Ken

Ken -

Bring your SX50 and we can set it up in my hotel room. :)

I wish I had brought my OPPO here so I could have gotten you off that fancy scaling stuff you like to play with. KEEP IT SIMPLE BUDDY!!! ;)

Do you know where you will be staying in Austin yet? Do you think us Louisiana folks are hurricane magnets? Where ever we go, hurricanes are sure to follow!

Icon Master

Maybe both of you guys should head for Albuquerque. We could do a projector stack and argue about scalers! :D

Seriously, if you need a place to stay, we'll fit you in. Got a very nice guest suite and a big motorhome. Weather is perfect, unlike where you guys live. :)

Dan

I am going to bring my dusty SX50. I figure UPS will hold the new one until the storm passes. We're staying with my sister the Mac fanatic and I want to see DVD's played from her Mac. She has a pool and an outdoor rear projection theater I helped her design.

Dan, sounds nice. A few pints and imagine how nice our SX50's would look :)

I talked to Canon today and they said if you send your dusty tearing SX50 to the repair center in New Jersey with a note the techs will apply the dust fix and put the latest firmware on it.

If I wind up sending one in I'm going to beg for the codes to adjust the Biases. The guy I talked to didn't know, but he thought if it was possible it might be through the serial service port.

Ken

We're staying with my sister the Mac fanatic and I want to see DVD's played from her Mac. She has a pool and an outdoor rear projection theater I helped her design.
Ken

Ken -

Did I hear "Mac fanatic" sister? Now you tell me and she is here in Austin? Does she do graphics? I was thinking of attending the monthly Mac user group meeting but I just missed it. I'd love to talk to her about the Mac community here and see if there are any opportunites for me before I head back to Louisiana. When will you be getting to Austin?

I even have a few Macs with me. I have a couple of G4 PowerBooks, a dual G5/2.5GHz Tower PowerMac and even a Mac Mini.

We Mac folks tend to stick together and I'm beginning to see a bit of that with the SX50 gang here (dust blobs excluded). :)

Icon Master

There is a pdf file on the canon europe with the serial control codes. What is the difference between the RGB screen color setting and bias setting? I found a mention there that "Special Mode - service mode" can not be enabled via the serial commands, perhaps a button combination is needed.

Anyhow it makes an interesting read, i cannot yet post urls, but it is in the download section of the canon-europe site/xeedsx_50/

I am thinking of buying a sx50, mainly for dvd, ps3 etc gaming. I will only use HTPC for DVD's with ffdshow for scaling. I am a bit disappointed about the results from the first calibration results, mainly the lack of dark detail.. but since i'm new to the front projection stuff i'm hoping that i will not notice this, how bad is it, is the sx50 still better than the new generation of LCD's, i know i don't like dlp's since i get headaches and see a lot of rbe.

Anyhow, i have been lurking around here for a few years, and thought it was about time to make my first post. :D

Maybe both of you guys should head for Albuquerque. We could do a projector stack and argue about scalers! :D
Kinda like a hippy commune only with consumer electronics, then?

Those with SX50s should try all sequences of menu button presses on my canon to see if I can get the service menu up. It should not be that hard to crack, possibly similar to the service code for other Canon projectors.

Mark, can you elaborate on your lack of dark detail & how you calibrated?

Regards,
Dean

Hi everyone, are there any SX50 owners in Seattle? Or, does anyone know of a dealer that has this projector set up?


Thanks,
Evan

Hi everyone, are there any SX50 owners in Seattle? Or, does anyone know of a dealer that has this projector set up?


Thanks,
Evan

I'd like to know that too since I was going to buy this projector until I decided to order an AE900. It would be fun to compare.

Find someone who is Sleepless In Seattle and you'll find your SX50 owner! :D

Dan

Set my dusty SX50 up today into our company's conference room rear projection setup. Suh-weet!

1400x1050 is so much sharper than 1024x768 and the SX50 is much brighter even in low lamp mode than the 3000 lumen Epson LCD. (about 3-4 yrs old)

The only problem is that the SX50 is so high res that it shows flaws in the mirror's surface. I'm going to check on a new one tomorrow.

I'm thinking I'll get some of that 3M Vikuiti high contrast rear pro material to go with it and have the nicest SX50 install around.

Two nice side effect come from this setup. One is the dark rear pro material masks the blue blacks and two is the frame completely hides the halo.

I wanted to test this setup so that if I fail to tweak the SX50 to my satisfaction it will have a new home.

My new replacement still hasn't arrived.

Ken

Hi, Dan!

I just wanted to pass along my kudos for a great thread - you've done a super job conveying tons of important information, and have done so in a friendly, engaging, and eminently fair manner. My hat's off to you for a job well done!

Thanks for sharing this neat little machine with us!

Have Fun!
MarkF

Hi Mark, you're welcome. Within limits, it is really a sweet little LCOS projector. I'm having a lot of fun with it because it really is like the old days where you can adapt a non HT projector and achieve very nice HT results.

Nothing much new to report. I'm awaiting the DVDO VP30 and my screen masking setup from HTIQ. The light blocker works very nice.

Next time I get to the Bay area can I see your Qualia, huh, huh? :D

Maybe when I grow up I can have a real HT like you. :)

Dan

I finally had a chance to see a real demo of this projector.
The setup was no that great so I would not have seen the best that
it can do. However, it is certainly true that the pixel structure is all but invisible.