Mitsubishi HC3000 MSRP $2,995 [Text View] - Page 11

richlo

11-02-06, 06:59 AM

FremontRich

11-02-06, 12:13 PM

Brajesh

11-02-06, 12:39 PM

You beat me to it. If not for the remote, the Mits would be #1 on their list. Still, I'd trust CR on projectors as much as George W. Bush on Iraq ;).

FremontRich

11-02-06, 12:54 PM

You beat me to it. If not for the remote, the Mits would be #1 on their list. Still, I'd trust CR on projectors as much as George W. Bush on Iraq ;).

I don't have any problems with the remote so Consumers is being picky. :rolleyes:

krasmuzik

11-02-06, 01:21 PM

I received my 3000 and installed in last night, I had a little worry about the colors being off, but going through AVIA, knowing that I was not going to be able to dial it in because I was going through HDMI to my Oppo971, I was surprised that the primaries on this unit seem to be right on the money looking through the filters on Red, Green, and Blue..I have a Mits 55807 that is calibrated, and when I last looked using avia (never have done an adju after the cal), it looked exactly like how I am seeing with the filters...I am not sure if the secondaries are off (Ill check for this), but never the less, I barely tweak anything, just have sharpness at -2. Medium seems to the Greyscale of use, it looks - pretty neutral through out the RAMP i put up and I switched through all of the choices - I have a calibration tool but that is only for CRTs, but I have an idea of what to look for.

The AVIA filters are for testing only that RGB are the proper brightness with that RGB% pattern w.r.t your white point. It does not test if they are the proper depth of color or proper hue. If you use the RedBars, GreenBars as well as BlueBars versions of the standard colorbars with the RGB filters then you can further test that the secondary colors are aligned in brightness w.r.t. to your white point - and are the proper hue between the primaries aligned with the actual white point. It does not test that your white point is D65 - so in fact it cannot test that your colors are indeed the proper hue w.r.t D65.

Unless the new firmware is reviewed by a calibrator- you will not know if Medium or Low is the proper selection - though the previous names for these menus were 6500K and 5900K they were nowhere near close. Maybe Low is supposed to be 6500K now and Medium 8500K - how do you know?

Your white point could be too blue or it could be too red. What that means is that if your white point is too blue, then cyan and magenta are certainly too blue - while Yellow is possibly too green. This is not something you can fix with color/tint - it is only fixable thru grayscale calibration. It is not detectable with the RGB filters patterns on AVIA - as these patterns are only for aligning the video decoder - and have nothing to do with the grayscale of the panel.

Many people make the mistake of using the RGB filters to check if they are calibrated - this instead is only checking that the video adjustments are in alighnment. It is not a grayscale calibration check - that can only be done with a sensor. Neutral to your eyes means the black, grey and white appear to have the same color shading - but if they were all too blue or all too red your eyes would not be able to tell. Human eyes are adaptable to white point - simple biological fact. So why calibrate if your eyes are white adaptive? Just look at the secondary colors as you change grayscale presets - you will always know when yellow is too green or too orange. And secondary colors are dependent on the white point - even after one has realigned the video with AVIA!

Now if you have calibrated your CRT with a sensor - you certainly could use it as a visual reference for what is the proper grayscale and colors.

DaGamePimp

11-02-06, 01:34 PM

Guys , don't sweat that Consumer Reports BS , they don't know anything about Videophile level quality . The HC3000 easily bests the HD72 in just about every category according to many direct comparisons that have been done . I have no remote issues and I do not recall of hearing about any either .

--- New Owners , congrats on the new Toy :) . Remember to get that Overscan setting at 100% first thing or you are loosing detail ;) .

------ Best Wishes ,
--------- Jason

richlo

11-02-06, 01:39 PM

Unless the new firmware is reviewed by a calibrator- you will not know if Medium or Low is the proper selection - though the previous names for these menus were 6500K and 5900K they were nowhere near close. Maybe Low is supposed to be 6500K now and Medium 8500K - how do you know?

.

are you volunteering?? :D

talon95

11-02-06, 01:47 PM

DaGamePimp

11-02-06, 02:03 PM

The better testament is the fact that Rich had a 4805 and the Mits still looks good to him. If the calibration was way off, I'd think it was stand out. Not to mention the previously calibrated CRT.

Dave G.

Yep , I have said it before many times ... the 4805 is a tough act to follow (especially an ISF'd 4805 for that extra 10%) . While the resolution increase is obvious with 720p units there are few <$2500 720p DLP's that can best the 4805 in many other areas .

-------- Jason

richlo

11-02-06, 02:20 PM

The better testament is the fact that Rich had a 4805 and the Mits still looks good to him. If the calibration was way off, I'd think it was stand out. Not to mention the previously calibrated CRT.

Dave G.

If everyone can refer back to PAGE 83 (previous page), someone posted the RGB greyscale out of the box..and by looking at that, you will see that, although it needs some tweaking..its not as off as it use to be..so HORRAY for Mits redoing this..but the biggest thing with me is Fleshtones, and without me having the color/tint options, let alone color decoder options (hidden service menu), they just look natural...Ive been use to seeing my MITS CRT for years and I know when something is not right when I see other sets...Im see some issues with the Mits, its not perfect, but darn it - its pleasing right out of the box, with the correct, selections on the menu. Im sure, like anything else, calibration will bring out the best..

btw..I have no problem with the remote..I like it..

krasmuzik

11-02-06, 02:51 PM

richlo

I had missed those ColorFacts charts - but let me interpret them for you.

First of all - that chart is zoomed out so the first error bar is at 20% - calibrators strive for a 3% difference since anything more can be seen by the naked eye. If the mousewheel is used on that chart - then zooming in can be done to 10%. But there is enough error in there that I can translate what it means. First off all it is not neutral - darks are pushing 20% blueish magenta while lights are 10% cyan. Neutral means flat lined to a particular greyscale even if not D65 - otherwise secondary colors will shift with the IRE level of the scene - since each level of grey has a different color temp.

Generally on other boxes 'Low" has meant the 6500K preset while 'Medium' means 8500K and 'Hi' means '10500K' - which is why I raise the question about the new presets? As that ColorFacts chart is not calibrated - on my scale it would rate 'good '- but above 'good' is 'very good', 'excellent', and 'perfected' - so it still has a ways to go. And my scale is not my personal videophile/calibrators scale - but rather a generous scale designed to be friendly so that there is a ways to go before I say it is 'very poor' to accomodate the range of image quality that is out there! And even then there are still some presets that are "off the chart" - and that does not mean in a good way!

Usually the color deviation as a result of grayscale deviation is even worse %. For the Sanyo Z4 review I did a ColorTemp chart that shows how these offsets relate. (since it has a master colortemp offset from the advanced grayscale/color calibration menu)

And yes I do volunteer my services for calibration reviews - only the calibration and shipping/ins cost. How about performance based pricing on the calibration though - no improvement - no charge beyond your shipping/ins? Even though the calibration reviews are free - I have to get new boxes to do new reviews - and good reviews may mean less calibration work for me - but more people buying your box! Otherwise we are all left with marketing based reviews spouting "brilliant colors, bright and contrastry - even makes your bed"! How many people in this thread believe ConsumerReports that an HD72 is in fact better than the MitsuHC3000 (I personally think all projector remotes suck - anyone with an HT should be buying a universal macro remote anyways!)

The reason I posted my post in response to yours though was that I continually see people making this error - checking with the RGB filters on the RGB% and proclaiming it was calibrated - or even worse seeing that it was not and adjusting the grayscale.

Maybe you know the difference since you tweaked your CRT - but many people reading make this assumption that you can calibrate grayscale using the RGB filters and RGB grayscales - and that is flat out incorrect! RGB% pattern and filters are used for aligining the video decoder - despite any grayscale errors which is something it is NOT testing. The RGB controls are not the controls used for fixing this pattern - color/tint are (and service menu for subcolor/tint if it exists). Greyscale can only be fixed with a reference - prefer a sensor - but calibrated display are an OK substitute.

The Mitsu HC3000 is capable of perfection - as well as having the best HD colors I have ever measure! But that perfection requires calibration! Of course that is fine if some people don't care about being perfect - but then we would have to rank the boxes based on OOTB performance rather than ISF performance - and standings would certainly change! For example the Z4 I just reviewed ranks as excellent on it's various cinema presets - so you are getting beat by a common LCD :D (though it's color decoder is flawed and requires RGB filter calibration)

richlo

11-02-06, 03:03 PM

I guess I am misinterpreted, I guess what I was trying to say is that the color decoder is pretty darn good, maybe better than what I thought..The greyscale - yes - needs work - rarely do they ever come in flat (well Infocus generally does), but never the less - it could be alot worse from what ive seen..

Id love to send mine butttttttttttttt..Im having too much fun as is with it..it will be hard to pry it from my kungfu grip..100hrs in, maybe I'll send it to you..Unless you venture through Chicago one of these days..Let me know...

krasmuzik

11-02-06, 03:10 PM

But then I jump up to full rate ISF for in-home services plus travel :D. Maybe not you - but there have been some that contacted me that are now thinking that the new presets are perfect and don't need calibration. Maybe they are better than before (which was rather bad) - but they are still not up to Infocus OOTB standard :D They all require burn-in so people need to enjoy their boxes and get over the big screen excitement before they calibrate anyways. I am just trying to raise awareness!

And again - if you tweaked your CRT you probably understand the difference with the RGB filters/decoder charts from grayscale - but it is very easy for people to mistake that for grayscale calibration! So I try to head off the potential misconception wherever I see it. I have even seen Infocus owners do it - even though their color/tint are near perfect but Infocus tweaks the color decoder for green brightness a tad to gain brightness. I see people dive into the RGB menu to "fix" it - when all they are doing is screwing up their near perfect grayscale and doing nothing for their color decoder (which is not fixable anyways)

BTW if you hook up to the Toshiba HDDVD for HDMI YCbCr "perfection" - early reports from calibration customers is it is generating red push. My review did not do that input - but DaGamePimp wants me to check it out - as even my calibrator's eye knows that BatMan ain't supposed to be sunburnt!

Federico

11-03-06, 12:29 AM

"....First off all it is not neutral - darks are pushing 20% blueish magenta while lights are 10% cyan."
KRAS

Excellent interpretation, it looks like you're actually looking at the picture of the projector. I use Color Temp in Medium. That's why it is so important the experience of the person who is doing the calibration. As soon as you see the picture you already know what to do. I have the after calibration graph but the file is too big to post it here.

Federico

krasmuzik

11-03-06, 01:42 AM

Federico

check out my new review format charts on the website as I explain them in detail - I specifically don't use ColorFacts charts anymore for customers because I got tired of trying to explain the colorscience behind the charts and how I interpret them into something they can understand. I got tired of reading magazine reviews with tiny little gamuts plots I need a magnifying glass to read. So I rather just show them with charts that they can understand and rolled my own (based on solid CIE1976 measures). And yes a good calibrator can make calibration look easy :D

I just had to hire a plumber to fix my screwup on changing the water filter. He patiently showed me how I forgot the gasket while he screwed it back on. Then went out to his truck and came back with the $150 bill. As he said - "that is $15 for putting the gasket in - $135 for knowing you left the gasket out before I even walked in the door!" :D

TSO

11-03-06, 10:33 AM

OK, guys, I just picked up my new HC3000 from a local retailer, and have spent the last three evenings viewing material -
Frankly, I am very under-whelmed at this point :(
I am hoping someone can shed some light on the issues.

Here is what I am experiencing -

Started off with some HD from Time Warner cable.
* Lots of grain and grit in the image, some video noise present in all areas
* Colors are difficult - either muted and sterile or garish and unreal.
* Sharpness issues - either too soft or peaking and edgey
* Motion artifacts

Watched "Lost" in hi def on Wednesday, and it seemed that sometimes, the picture perked up and looked the way I was expecting. Seemed only on the bright, high contrast material though.

So, I pulled out some DVD's yesterday and watched. I use a Panasonic XP50 which has always given a marvelous picture in 480P. Here is what I saw -
* Soft - image just seemed a little muzzy overall.
*Detail being lost. Watched my favorites - Gladiator, LOTR, etc. and they all seemed a little soft, and colors muted.
* In messing with the controls a bit, could not quite find that good ground between muted colors and garish colors.
* Some scaling artifacts! First time I've seen those since my first projector.
*All in all, a not very smooth or filmlike image, but more digital and flat.

So today, my day off, I broke out the calibration discs and equipment, and here is what I discovered -

* ON the very first patterns, not able to display the PLuge properly (below black) and blooming on the top end. That would explain the flat, detail-lacking picture. Unfortunately, not settings I could find on the projector would correct the black loss, and could only slightly improve the white crush (this on a stair stepped gray ramp).
* Color seemed Ok on the patterns, with green being a little yellow. As mentioned, on SOME parts of Lost, it looked great. ON most other HD, including sports and DVD's, a little artificial looking, or muted.

I have read back over this thread and flagged all of the known issues, and have -
* Turned off the overscan
* Set it for below black
* Tried with BC on and off
* Tried everybody's user settings
* Tried different settings on my XP50, although the previous ones were perfect for my previous display.

What am I doing wrong here, guys? My previous display was an Optoma H56, which is about 5 years old. IN its day, it was NOT known as a "budget" display, and was known for its refined picture (not unlike the NEC HT1000). It is only XGA resolution, with a contrast level of 2000/1, so in theory, it should be years behind and several technology steps below the HC3000.

however, in seeing the two, I would have to say at this point that the H56 had -
* Better processing of an HD signal
* MUCH better colors
* More fine detail across the brighness spectrum
* More 3d image in HD and DVD

Again - what am I missing?
No offense to the professionals out there, but as I owned projectors for many years and I work with them every week in my work, I'm not interested in a unit that I have to send off to be professionally calibrated in order to get more than %50 of its potential. To be honest, I can't afford it, and with other displays I've been confident that I'm getting at least 80-90% of it's capabilities. I am tweaker at heart, and the idea of owning something that I can't tweak to good performance is frustrating.

THanks for the advice.

dtsfanoh

11-03-06, 10:37 AM

I would suggest having it professionally calibrated and you are good to go! I had mine calibrated after about 100 hrs on the bulb and haven't looked back! The PQ is terrific! Zero buyer's remorse! My cal job cost was ~ $350.

Federico

11-03-06, 10:58 AM

"check out my new review format charts on the website as I explain them in detail "

Kras, where is your website?

Federico

PoseidonXXL

11-03-06, 11:15 AM

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but I can't find any projector specific comments in the video gaming forum. I have a 1000, but I think the 3000 might behave similarly, and it seems that not many people own the 1000 at this point.

Has anyone here played a 720p game through their XBox 360 with the 3000? Was there any gaming control lag? The lag with a PS2 at 480i is pronounced. I'm asking because I am planning to get a PS3 which, for most games, will apparently be outputting a 720p signal.

TIA

talon95

11-03-06, 12:22 PM

"check out my new review format charts on the website as I explain them in detail "

Kras, where is your website?

Federico
It's in his profile, but for some silly reason, not in his sig. :)

http://krasmuzik.biz/

Dave G.

krasmuzik

11-03-06, 03:19 PM

I do sell calibration services - thus no .sig links. You can certainly go for review sites that sell ad space for projectors instead :D

This just came up elsewhere - see this post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8803488&&#post8803488

FremontRich

11-03-06, 05:41 PM

Last night I experienced my first "it's flickering" episode on my Mits HC3000. I switched from Low lamp mode to Standard lamp mode and the flickering went away. I waited 5 minutes and then I switched back to Low lamp mode and the image remained stable. I have a clean power supply - it's a double conversion Triplite UPS so I know the projector is getting clean power. My guess is that the software in the Mits is acting up. Any thoughts, anybody?

krasmuzik

11-03-06, 07:06 PM

Bob Williams at Infocus had a good explanation of flickering lamps - and why changing to high helps. In a nutshell - you have an arc not a filament - and sometimes changing power modes causes it to burn-in a different arc path. I had the same thing on IN76 and couple movies in high power solved the problem.

http://japhule.collinsreport.com/4805FAQ/html/index.html#Q36
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5820302#post5820302

DaGamePimp

11-03-06, 07:23 PM

TSO ,

Consider for 16:9 you are now seeing 720p vs. 576p , an increase in resolution can resolve more and allow you to see flaws that you might not have seen previously with HD material .

As I recall Optoma used to use a dark ( not accurate ) green segment on its color wheels to reduce dithering and so it is very possible that you are seeing more dithering with the HC3000 , proper viewing distance needs to be considered . For example my Optoma H30 has almost zero dithering due to this dark green segment (even right up at the screen) but the far more accurate InFocus 4805 had visible dithering unless proper view distance was accounted for .

Odds are the NEW HC3000 is a good bit brighter than old H56 which again will show more noise unless proper calibration is done .

While your source might have been a good match for the H56 it just might not match up as well to the HC3000 . Remember that you are taking 16:9 480p to only 576p with the H56 but 480p to 720p with the HC3000 . The higher resolution will show all the details of just how poor SD DVD really looks , sad but true . Example : SD DVD playback looked better on my 4805 than it does on my HC3000 . It is very possible that the H56 has better 480p scaling than the HC3000 but it is also very possible that you are just seeing more detail and thus just how much compression noise , artifacts , EE , etc. there is with most SD DVD content .

Bottom line ... pro level calibration ;) . At the current HC3000 prices there is nothing better out there but if you are not happy with it then by all means seek out something else that will put a smile on your face :) .

Best of Luck ,
--- Jason

DaGamePimp

11-03-06, 07:27 PM

DaGamePimp

11-03-06, 07:29 PM

It's in his profile, but for some silly reason, not in his sig. :)

http://krasmuzik.biz/

Dave G.

You can also get to kras's website from my website , his link is on the front page of my site (which is in my sig) ;) .

------ Jason

FremontRich

11-03-06, 08:12 PM

FremontRich

11-03-06, 08:20 PM

FremontRich

11-03-06, 09:51 PM

I have a quick question about the "Blank" function on the remote. What harm can come to the projector if I leave it on the blank mode for an extended time?

Dave W

11-03-06, 11:22 PM

TSO-

I just switched from an NEC HT1000 to the Mitsubishi HC3000U, and for me, it is a solid step up. I think DaGamePimp made some good comments/suggestions. It does sound to me like much of what you're describing could be attributed to an increased visibility of source flaws. I can now see more MPEG2 artifacts in broadcast HDTV than I could before, but the color, contrast, and detail are substantially improved. I have noticed that if BC is on, then certain MPEG noise is much more pronounced than with BC off. The 480p image from my Pioneer DV-59AVi is also improved although to a lesser degree.

I'm really quite surprised at your post, since you're making nearly the same switch that I did, and I'm impressed in every way, while you sound so disappointed.

For what it's worth, I'm using the following settings:

Lamp: Low
Gamma: Cinema
Color Temp: Medium
BC: Off most of the time, On for daytime viewing and some animation
Iris: Closed most of the time, Open for daytime viewing

I think every other setting is currently at default. I just set it up last weekend and haven't even had a chance to do a basic calibration check with DVE. I can plainly see the brightness and contrast are nearly perfect at default, and since the default color almost matched my CRT HDTV right below the screen, I think the basic color settings are nearly perfect as well. I've been having too much fun just watching than to take time to tweak.

Dave

Dave W

11-03-06, 11:23 PM

FremontRich-

Other than the fact that the lamp is burning the whole time, I don't think leaving it on "Blank" for extended periods could do any damage.

Dave

Mr Ian B

11-04-06, 12:59 AM

DaGamePimp

11-04-06, 01:05 AM

Ian B ,

It has to send the Off command twice within about 5 seconds in order to shut down the HC3000 .

------ Jason

TSO

11-04-06, 11:13 AM

Thanks, Dave and Jason for taking the time to reply :) The reason I am not considering a $350 calibration or a $400 HD-DVD player right now, is that if I took that money and added it to the return money on the HC3000, I could get an HC3100, which I understand needs little calibration and throws a better picture anyway :) :) :)

I foolled around in the dark with it last night (hmmm...sounds like a date with my wife:) ) and was able to get much better performance on DVD signals. Still working on the HD - the last two nights have not given a ton of great programming. I just remember watching several matches of boxing and a couple of basketball games on one of the HDTV channels that were mind blowingly real, especially the boxing (of which I;m not a big fan -it just looked so great!) In looking at the boxing match, I brought every analytical thing I could to the picture, and just walked away saying I couldn't see how it could get better - really rich colors (maybe even a ittle too rich) super smooth, super sharp and detailed picture. I haven't seen a boxing match yet on the 3000, so maybe it's just a programming problem. I've watched a couple of mediocre DiscoverHD programs (the Snake guy, a tour of London) and a college football game, which was OK, but in both the motion artifacts and grain were pretty noticeable, and the colors felt a little washed out.

Here is a concrete question for anyone -
In calibrating your HC3000 with VE or Avia, were you able to get blacker than black on the pluge pattern in progressive component inputs?

I tried three different quality players, and was able to fairly easily get blacker than black on a 480i signal. Switched to progressive, and its another story. The XP50 has near the absolute best 480p output of any DVD player (according the the "secrets" benchmark), and it's looked great on every pj I've used it on. And, no problem with the pluge.

I did discover that if i crank the "brightness" on the 3000 up to around 15, the blacker than black bar shows up! Just eyballing though, it looks like that raises the general black level a bit too much, though there are more details in the picture. Is this because the greyscale is rampping out of black a little too slowly/shallowly when the "brightness" is set normally?

I tried all the different configurations I could - the player has a "lighter/darker" option for black - tried both with multiple settings, no real difference in the pluge, tried the "set up" option on the HC3000 which I believe does somewhat the same thing (choices are off, auto, 3.5% and 7.5%), again with variations in the picture but none in the luge or low level detail.

Of course, as I'm typing this I now remember that there is a user option on the gamme which allows you to affect the different stages of the gamma scale at low, medium and high areas. This is a new adjustment option for me, not on previous PJ's, so I haven't touched it yet.

Please comment on these thoughts, and let me know how easily your 3000 passes the pluge from your player with "normal" brightness settings.

Thanks!

FremontRich

11-04-06, 12:13 PM

FremontRich-

Other than the fact that the lamp is burning the whole time, I don't think leaving it on "Blank" for extended periods could do any damage.

Dave

Thanks, Dave W!

gottahavapj

11-04-06, 12:24 PM

I am not able to get the harmony 659 to power off the projector when I hit the off button on the harmony. I have tried the help keys and power tuggle button in the harmony remote to no avail. Have been on the phone with Harmony for about a week and they can't get my settings to work. All other components come on and off correctly but, the pj will come on but, won't power off.

Any suggestions???

Thanks,

Ian B
I have the 659 and an Optoma H30 which requires the same two power button presses within 5 seconds to get it to turn off. I found the answer for how to do that in an FAQ that I couldn't find with a quick look at the website. I'm really surprised Harmony/Logitech couldn't help you with it as it took me about a minute to set it up a couple of years ago. Maybe they have removed some functionality in a new software release which would suck. I'll look around... huh..

Edit-

Here are the steps from the FAQ that I used to do this. I asssume you've already tried it though, especially if you were in contact with support...

From the FAQ-
---------------------------
My original remote uses one button for powering my Projector on and off.
1. From your home page click Devices.
2. Select the device you want to configure.
3. Click Adjust power settings.
4. When prompted with the question "Do you want to leave your device on all the time?" select "I want to turn off this device when it's not in use". Click Next.
5. On the following page select One button on the remote for turning it both On and Off and click Next. You will then be prompted to select a power on command.
6. Under Use these infrared commands select PowerToggle from the drop-down list and click Next. You will then be prompted to select a power off command.
7. Select I send more than one command and click Next to display additional drop-down list fields under Use these infrared commands.
8. Select PowerToggle from the first drop-down list.
9. Select IR:PowerToggle from the second drop-down list and click Next.
10. Update the remote.
----------------------------

I think that is the set of commands that originally did it for me, but it's been two years now.

Sorry for the long OT post in your Mits thread.

Josh Z

11-04-06, 02:09 PM

FremontRich-

Other than the fact that the lamp is burning the whole time, I don't think leaving it on "Blank" for extended periods could do any damage.

This may or may not be an issue with the Mitsu, but my last projector was an NEC model and one day I made the mistake of leaving it running unattended for a half hour or so. I didn't realize that my DVD player activated a mostly-black screensaver after a few minutes. Turned out that (on that model, at least) projecting an all or mostly black image for an extended amount of time reflected too much light and heat back into the body of the projector. This caused the bulb to overheat and blow out prematurely. From that point forward, I've made it a point that if I'm going to leave the room for more than a few minutes I'll switch the projector over to a random cable channel so that it has active picture content on the screen and the mirrors keep flipping.

btiltman

11-04-06, 03:05 PM

TSO-

I just switched from an NEC HT1000 to the Mitsubishi HC3000U, and for me, it is a solid step up. I think DaGamePimp made some good comments/suggestions. I can now see more MPEG2 artifacts in broadcast HDTV than I could before, but the color, contrast, and detail are substantially improved. Dave

Hi Dave....... how many hours did you have on the HT-1000 when you changed over?

Dave Mack

11-04-06, 06:14 PM

I previously had an optoma h57 and the Mits kicked it's butt all over the place! Even with the color all wonky when it came! On mine I have color temp of high, medium, low etc... and USER. You cannot make any RGB adjustments unless you select USER. So you can't say choose low and then adjust...
At least on mine...
Looks amazing

Dave W

11-04-06, 06:51 PM

Josh Z

11-04-06, 11:44 PM

On my old HT1000 (700 hours on it when I sold it, by the way), there were many instances where we had to pause the movie to deal with child issues, and the DVD player went to its screen saver for extended periods (an hour or longer). The projector's fan never even went into high mode, which it would do ocassionally during hot evenings, so I know it wasn't heating up to any significant degree. Based on what Josh said, it sounds like some models may indeed have an issue showing a black screen for extended periods. I'm not going to worry about it myself.

The model I had was the LT-240, which was also notorious for its bulb outgassing issues, which may have played some role in my overheating.

I don't know whether leaving a blanked-out image will have any effect on the HC3000 or not, but after that previous experience I'm paranoid enough not to do it again.

Mr Ian B

11-05-06, 12:18 AM

Ian B ,

It has to send the Off command twice within about 5 seconds in order to shut down the HC3000 .

------ Jason

Ok Jason, where do I need to go in the Harmony website settings to do this?

Thanks,

Ian B

Nevermind Jason. Let me try what gottahavepj wrote.

Will let everyone know the results.

Thanks again,

Ian B

richlo

11-05-06, 09:56 AM

Anyone have any suggestion on how to set the CONTRAST on this thing..Ive tried using AVIA and also THX Optimizer, an I am just having a hard time telling where exactly to look, I do not see any blooming really. Right now I have have it at 6 from a default of 0...Then another issue is that if I got to setting brightness both AVIA and THX gives me diff settings by 4 clicks. With AVIA I end up with a -2, with THX I endup with +2 from a default of 0...

Is there some other pattern that I can use for setting contrast??

btw..Im setup through DVD/HDMI to a Oppo 971

krasmuzik

11-05-06, 02:43 PM

Blooming is for old analog CRT.

You want to look for clipping - that is when the near whites blend into the whites or start to shift color. Both of AVIA and THX have the near white patterns. Use your contrast control - which is indeed the white level control.

For blacks you want the BTB (Blacker than Black) shadow in THX to dissapear. There is no BTB in AVIA so you go up to the screen and look at the blackground - adjust until it stops dithering. The near black bars will be dithering. The black level control is called brightness.

If you find test patterns confusing - get the ISF/AVS/Monster ELF promotion DVD - it uses models in B&W tuxes which you may find easier to see.

Yes the control names are backwards from their function.....

John Clark

11-05-06, 11:51 PM

I have an 8 foot ceiling, want a 110 inch screen, and the distance between the projector and the screen will be roughly 13-14 feet. Will the HC3000 work for me?

While there are some aspects that I like in the current crop of lcd's, for me, the visible lcd "texturing" and the color and dynamic superiority of DLP's means I don't think I could live with an LCD. I'm essentially non functional with the math necessary, so any help would be appreciated. Of what I have seen, and have auditioned, I've been by far, most impressed with the Mitsubishi HC3000 but was told by the vendor I talked to that it would require a 16 foot distance between the projector and screen, minimum, for a 110 inch screen.

Any expertise, thoughts, or experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.

John

rboster

11-06-06, 09:44 AM

rboster

11-06-06, 10:37 AM

What's disappointing is the lack of knowledge that sales ppl have about products that they sell. John's post brings up a recent experience I had in looking at the mits 3000 for a friend. He was in the market, so I did some research and realized the off set was going to be the stumbling block...but we had Best Buy and Continenal Video..both had the projector lens about even with the top of the screen....so obviously they were using keystone correction to balance out the image. The BB guys knew what I was talking about. Suprisingly the private local retailer did not. He tried telling me the best location for the projector is dead center with the screen. WHen I mentioned off-set and what the Mits website showed in their layout that didn't agree with what he said. He mumbled about never visiting their site and having sold projectors since the 80's that wasn't his understanding. Sad they sell a handfull of projectors and a seasoned vet of the industry wouldn't know what off-set was and how it related to something he sold. The last thing I mentioned to him was the fact that the Mits was tilted upwards and that wouldn't create a even image....and that they must be using keystone to correct it...he just glossed over the statement and went on....

Ron

PS: It just comes back to the importance of being an educated consumer. That's why I hate to see threads from folks that are looking to be told what to buy, without digging into the details and understanding the product.

talon95

11-06-06, 12:54 PM

Now you can tilt the projector up slightly, which will cause you to use the keystone correction to sq. up the image....some find this a problem, others don't. There is a whole thread on the topic recently...I would run a search and review that thread.

Ron

A small amount of tilt doesn't cause enough geometry distortion to require keystone IMO. I have my 4805 tilted slightly (probably less than 5 degrees, but easily seen when looking at the projector), but the image looks fine with no keystone. One key is to have a good black border around the screen so any distortion is hidden by running the image off the edge of the screen slightly.

Maybe not good enough for some, but for most it would never be noticeable.

Dave G.

FremontRich

11-06-06, 01:17 PM

John, I don't think your vendor is correct. The min. throw distance for a 110" screen is a 158 inches or 13.17 feet. The Max is 191.2 or 16 ft. So he is incorrect.

The problem you may have is the off-set with 8 ft ceilings. Let's assume the mount is 6 inches from the ceiling. Your screen veiwing surface will be top pt at 75.4 inches and bottom at 21.5 inches. That's pretty low...esp. if you have a second row on a platform. Now you can tilt the projector up slightly, which will cause you to use the keystone correction to sq. up the image....some find this a problem, others don't. There is a whole thread on the topic recently...I would run a search and review that thread.

Ron

While the zoom range of the Mits HC3000 can accommodate the 110" screen for a given throw distance within the zoom range one should be careful not to go to the extreme range of the zoom because it will introduce visual distortion. The best place on the zoom range is the middle which will be approx. 14.4' for a 110" screen. See:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HC3000U-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Another thing to bear in mind is the brightness of the image. For that screen size the image brightness will be 10 ft. lamberts. As the lamp ages this brightness will dim so you should be concerned about this so you may want to consider a smaller screen or a screen with gain which boosts the image brightness.

John Clark

11-07-06, 11:46 PM

While the zoom range of the Mits HC3000 can accommodate the 110" screen for a given throw distance within the zoom range one should be careful not to go to the extreme range of the zoom because it will introduce visual distortion. The best place on the zoom range is the middle which will be approx. 14.4' for a 110" screen. See:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HC3000U-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Another thing to bear in mind is the brightness of the image. For that screen size the image brightness will be 10 ft. lamberts. As the lamp ages this brightness will dim so you should be concerned about this so you may want to consider a smaller screen or a screen with gain which boosts the image brightness.

Any recommendations on a screen that won't break the bank which would provide enough gain to assure a high quality picture on a 110 inch screen with the HC3000 given my parameters?

John

FremontRich

11-08-06, 02:55 AM

Any recommendations on a screen that won't break the bank which would provide enough gain to assure a high quality picture on a 110 inch screen with the HC3000 given my parameters?

John

You might want to try the Da-Lite Model C High Power screen (manual pulldown model) which will cost around $600. Talk with Jason of AVS. High Power screens have a gain of 2.8 and are retro-reflective so if you ceiling mount the projector you won't get the full benefit of the gain but it should still be near 1.5.

DaGamePimp

11-08-06, 03:17 AM

A large (106" +) Dalite HiPower is excellent with the HC3000 , I have the model C at about 120" and it has just enough gain when ceiling mounted to provide all the brightness that I could want (even at D65 / low lamp / Iris closed) .

------ Jason

Brajesh

11-08-06, 09:57 AM

I'm late to join the HC3000U club, but I got my PJ two days ago & I'm really impressed. It's replacing my Panny AE700U LCD. Despite lacking lens shift & a long zoom, I don't think I'll ever go back to LCD again :)! The blacks are excellent, the PQ is sharp, no VB/SDE & it's plenty bright. I was afraid it wouldn't be bright enough & was considering the HD1000U, but I think I've made the better choice. I have BC off, low lamp & iris closed and PQ is bright/punchy. I do have the GrayWolf 1.8 gain screen & a light controlled room, which both help, but the PJ is brighter than my Panny AE700U. The PQ is noticeably better of course.

I'm considering the Dalite High Power screen to replace the GrayWolf, in which I see waves. It seems they're less of an issue w/HP. Quick question, as I know this isn't the right forum for it ... is Model B good enough if the screen is going to stay down most of the time, or is Model C still worth it for $100 more?

Mr Ian B

11-08-06, 03:15 PM

Thanks for the responses to my question with this remote. I spent 2 hrs on the phone yesterday with a level 2 tech with Logitech and we got it all worked out. He had to see another customer's set-up in their data base to configure mine. Talk about great customer service and a whole lot of patience.

By the way, CARS looked impressive last night.

Thanks,

Ian B

tomasz

11-10-06, 03:42 PM

I can get this PJ locally for the lowest price on the web (that USA place ;) ). So I think I'm going to get it and see if I can make it work and if not I'll take it back. The quastion I have is which screen or what grain should I get to get that plasma look. My room is light controlled. Thanks for the help.

dadorama

11-10-06, 06:48 PM

I'm a lowish-end hobbyist. You know, married family techie guy that wants to enjoy the hobby as much as seems reasonable considering the family budget. So I had a 5 year old ASK C20 (SVGA LCD) coupled with an iScan Pro, so this is my upgrade project (or toys as the kids say).

I just set up my new HC3000 last night- along with an OPPO OPD971H and an 8' matte white Model B screen (gain 1.0 I presume...). My initial impressions: WOW! What a dynamic, crisp, engaging image! Great depth! I have not made any real adjustments yet- using cinema, low color temp, closed iris, HDMI input.

The image doesn't strike me as all that bright, though. My living room is reasonably dark at night, no light from outside or near the room (front room of an old Victorian). Ceiling and walls are white, average amount of art, plants, etc.

I imagine everything is correct with the projector, but I'd like to be able to verify a few things. How do you read the manufacture date code? This one is: M1KY How can you tell what revision firmware the projector is running?

Murray

boblinds

11-10-06, 08:18 PM

A friend inked a movie deal yesterday so, to celebrate, I ordered an HC3000 for myself. (Yes, I KNOW that doesn't quite make sense, but it worked for me. ;) )

Looking forward to receiving it next week. My first DLP projector (after CRT and LCD).

richlo

11-10-06, 10:02 PM

l am 2 weeks in with my Mits3000U and I LOVE it..hooked up to an Oppo971, 720P upconverted..BEAAAAAAAAAUTIFUL...I have i paired up with an ELITE CINETENSION HCGreyscreen 100"...I just cant see me spending thousands more for a Stewart or even a Dalite - Ive seen the Firehawks and although I love them...The Elite Cinetension cant be beat..Thanks Jason here at AVS for the great price on the screen

btw..whenever you guys want to watch an ULTRA stunning picture, watch the beginning sceen of VERTICAL LIMIT - especially if you have the superbit version...Obviously if you have HD-DVD - even better - Im waiting on that as its a little to early and sometime next year new ones will be out and the price should drop significantly..

dreemweaver

11-11-06, 02:42 AM

You might want to try the Da-Lite Model C High Power screen (manual pulldown model) which will cost around $600. Talk with Jason of AVS. High Power screens have a gain of 2.8 and are retro-reflective so if you ceiling mount the projector you won't get the full benefit of the gain but it should still be near 1.5.

I built a DIY Wilsonart Laminate screen for around 150 and it is fantastic. Many great reviews of this laminate as a screen material. I highly recommend checking it out if you are on a budget. The laminate is a very easy to create a screen with since there is no stretching. The hardest part is cutting it to size. I had a local countertop shop cut it...they did it free of charge.

Check it out

StarCruzr0

11-11-06, 05:51 PM

Hello, this is my first time posting. I am not sure if this is the porper thread but... I was under the impression that the HC3000 was set to come out in November and have recently discovered it will be atleast January now. I have also found that the price has gone up from a few of the places i had been looking at. Would anyone know if this is due to the extended release of the newer model or if maybe they have released an updated version of the HC3000? i have found the cheapest price of about $1500 on ebay, doeas anyone know of a cheaper reputable place? Also, should i think about buying before the ebay price goes up as well? Thanks

richlo

11-11-06, 07:51 PM

Hmmm..the 3000U is a 2005 model..you may be thinking the 3100, which is the NEXT version..Your price mention is about the going rate..just make sure that you get it from an AUTHORIZED seller, so that you can take advantage of the warranty..of course that is - if you buy it..

StarCruzr0

11-11-06, 10:32 PM

Alright, thank you. I was thinking of the 3000U i just wasn't sure if they had updated that model. I only ask because best buy is now selling it for 1999 and i thought it was only 1700 a few weeks ago. Am i correct in the knowledge that the 3100 is set for January now? Also, how do i tell if they are an authorized dealer? is ebay an authorized dealer? i am thinking about buying the 3000U from ebay tomorrow from a company called Time2Envy. they are the only seller of that product right now on ebay. is there any easy wasy to determine if they are authorized? or is there another more reputable retailor you can suggest? thanks for the help!

richlo

11-11-06, 11:09 PM

If you buy from this forum, you can get it for a VERY good price or there is an AUTHORIZED seller online that sells it even cheaper. Unfortunately we can not post prices of places in this forum...but Id personally avoid EBAY if there is someplace else I can trust...follow my suggestion and you will be happy..

Go to the very top and see AVS Alliance's and the 1st one is the owners of this forum and you can email them for pricing, and like I mention you can search online for an authorized seller that sells them even a bigger discount

Jim McC

11-12-06, 01:23 AM

Mitsubishi's website lists the authorized online dealers. Click on "where to buy".

mjondal

11-13-06, 08:57 AM

Star, I bought my HC3000 a couple weeks ago from the ProjectorPros and easily recommend them. They priced matched down to close to your lowest ebay price listed above. The unit was dropped shipped directly from Mitsubishi and included the latest adjustments.

Kysersose

11-13-06, 10:04 AM

Guys! Keep the dealers and pricing out of this thread or I'll have to shut it down...

Thanks,

Kyser

AlexBPM

11-13-06, 01:27 PM

While the zoom range of the Mits HC3000 can accommodate the 110" screen for a given throw distance within the zoom range one should be careful not to go to the extreme range of the zoom because it will introduce visual distortion. The best place on the zoom range is the middle which will be approx. 14.4' for a 110" screen. See:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HC3000U-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Another thing to bear in mind is the brightness of the image. For that screen size the image brightness will be 10 ft. lamberts. As the lamp ages this brightness will dim so you should be concerned about this so you may want to consider a smaller screen or a screen with gain which boosts the image brightness.

How bad is the visual distortion? And what exactly should I be looking for? I'm torn between a Sanyo Z5 and HC3100 (from a Japanese dealer), but the HC3100 would have to be zoomed out all the way COMPLETELY to accomodate my 120" screen at a 14-15ft throw. Should I just scratch the HC3100 off my list and stick with the Z5 for this reason? Is it really that bad to have a projector zoomed out all the way?

FremontRich

11-13-06, 01:59 PM

How bad is the visual distortion? And what exactly should I be looking for? I'm torn between a Sanyo Z5 and HC3100 (from a Japanese dealer), but the HC3100 would have to be zoomed out all the way COMPLETELY to accomodate my 120" screen at a 14-15ft throw. Should I just scratch the HC3100 off my list and stick with the Z5 for this reason? Is it really that bad to have a projector zoomed out all the way?

I've never seen the HC3100 or the Z5 so I can't comment about them but in my Mits HC3000 there is a slight degradation of image quality. It's a subjective issue and only you can judge whether after spending all that money you can live with it.

StarCruzr0

11-15-06, 04:15 PM

Does anyone know the exact dimensions of the mounting holes for the HC300U projector? Also, is the screw metric or standard of what diameter? This information may be earlier in this forum but i was unable to find it. Thank you for all the help.

richlo

11-15-06, 04:45 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6753484&highlight=4mm#post6753484

try this

tqn

11-16-06, 11:28 PM

Hey guys, my first post! (Or first in as long as I can remember). I'm hoping some HC3000 or HD1000 owners can help me out here.

I read this whole thread, which must mean -- you guessed it -- I am seriously considering this projector. My question is related to the pixel-mapping via HDMI. Now I understand that to enable pixel-mapping, you need to NOT select the Real aspect ratiio, and to set overscan to 100%.

HOWEVER, I also saw a few posts where people mentioned that when they switched resolutions on their HDMI-connected DVD player, then the overscan returned to its default of 97%.

My connection to the pj would be to a HTPC. I also plan on playing games with the pj connected to the HTPC, and that's where my concern lies. If I switch from my desktop which say has a resolution of 1280 x 720, to a game with a resolution of say 1024 x 768 (yes, an oooold game :P), then will the pj default back to 97%? And then when I'm done the game and switch back to the desktop, the overscan will still be 97% and thus not pixel-mapped???

If that's the case, that would be a mighty big annoyance! So if any HC3000 or HD1000 owners out there could try this simple test out for me, I'd much appreciate that. Yep, I'm also considering the HC3000's close cousin the HD1000, and am assuming the two are the same regarding the overscan setting. Thanks!

averhoff

11-19-06, 09:54 AM

rboster

11-19-06, 10:03 AM

Hi guys,

Just got everything hooked up. 1st question I got an Oppo 971 with the dvi to hdmi adapter and hooked up with HDMI cable. The problem is when I view a DVD, when I hit menu it still says 480p i nthe corner. HOw do I know if it is upconverting?

Your OPPO needs to be out putting 790p. It's been a while since I owned the 971. If I remember right there is a button on the remote which allows you to change the resolution the player is outputting. Your manual should have a lay out of the remote w/descriptions of each button. Let the player do the scaling, not the projector.

richlo

11-19-06, 11:57 AM

Cycle by pressing the DVI button at the very bottom left of the remote, but you have to be in STOP mode if you have a DVD playing.

dadorama

11-19-06, 11:59 AM

The DVI button in the lower corner of the remote will toggle through the various output resolutions. The DVD itself must be stopped, just press menu, if you get the "no operation" symbol...

Mr Ian B

11-20-06, 09:20 AM

Is anyone already using a PS with this projector and how is it working out as a blu-ray player. I am waiting on my PS3 and will be using it as a blu-ray player only. Any HDMI issues between them? I see that some tv are having handshake problems already.

I am also about to pull the trigger on the panny blu-ray player? I have read great feedback, reliability and picture/audio quality on this model. Any comments will be appreciated. By the way, lowest price is by Robert with VE.

Any recommendations as to whether I should go with the PS3 or the Panny stand alone blu-ray player? I won't be playing PS3 games as I already have an Xbox 360 and my games are available on both consoles.

Thanks,

Ian B

jnegamble

11-20-06, 08:31 PM

Hi everyone I hope someone can help I purchased this projector on the 4th of november and I am already on my second unit. I keep getting a no signal message when I go to watch tv through the component input. I have the comcast hd box with dvr. When I turn the machine on I get a picture the after a while the picture will jitter then I get no signal. I watched the program back from the dvr later in the day and say it through no problems. So this tells me it is not the cable box. Eventually the problem also happens with the hdmi cable. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

dexx

11-21-06, 03:12 AM

I built a DIY Wilsonart Laminate screen for around 150 and it is fantastic. Many great reviews of this laminate as a screen material. I highly recommend checking it out if you are on a budget. The laminate is a very easy to create a screen with since there is no stretching. The hardest part is cutting it to size. I had a local countertop shop cut it...they did it free of charge.

Can you please post a link?

FremontRich

11-21-06, 12:46 PM

Can you please post a link?

Here it is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=708240

zapper

11-23-06, 10:02 AM

Stupid question can this Pj, show 16.9 without any distortion. Somewhere I read that it's a 4.3 PJ or am I just tired from reading most post on this thread.

rboster

11-23-06, 11:16 AM

Stupid question can this Pj, show 16.9 without any distortion. Somewhere I read that it's a 4.3 PJ or am I just tired from reading most post on this thread.

That is incorrect information. It's a 16x9 pj. If you are ever uncertain about specs a quick check at projector central's website is a easy way to confirm specs on almost any projector....it saves you from weeding through a long master thread.

zapper

11-23-06, 12:20 PM

Thank You so much.

rtuimauga

11-25-06, 04:08 PM

Maybe a really dumb question but is there a difference between HC3000U and HC3000?

richlo

11-25-06, 04:10 PM

U = USA, then I think there is a E = European

Bill Shenefelt

11-26-06, 08:37 AM

I have read some reviews of the Tosh HD DVD player and they seem to knock its ability to give good picture thru 1080i. Any suggestions as to what DVD (HD preferrably) player or Bluray player to give the best HD as well as std def DVD output for this mits projector?
The HC3000 does not have 1080p and besides, I sure don't want to run a 35 ft HDMI cable! I'm just looking into an improvement over my current dvd std definition player (a panasonic hard-drive/dvd DMR D100H). That plus a Cband Sat receiver with HD decoder with 169time computer conversion & LG LST3410A recorders and an old Lasar disk player as well as off antenna HD Broadcast are my current sources. I feed either a tosh 62 inch DLP HD tv or the Mits projector.

Just looking for a good dvd unit to compliment these. Any suggestions? Would appreciate a cc to william.shenefelt@verizon.net When I search the forum on the mits for HD DVD it finds hd and a million places.

Josh Z

11-26-06, 11:06 AM

I have read some reviews of the Tosh HD DVD player and they seem to knock its ability to give good picture thru 1080i.

Whoever wrote that is a shill for the competetion. Check out the high-def forums on this site and you'll see that people overwhelming praise the HD DVD players for their picture quality.

rtuimauga

11-26-06, 12:14 PM

Bill Shenefelt

11-26-06, 12:27 PM

I tried posting there to see what I can learn. I can't really find much about the 1080I/720p aspect of the hd players. Everyone seems to be into the 1080p already. The comment I read had to do with the 1080I output not the 1080p (which I cannot use on the mits) also the upconversion and 1080i output seems to be only in the hdmi output and I can't use that for the mits anyway as far as I know. I just want some info as to how it would be to use the unit with the Mits I have. I don't want to run a 35 ft dvi or hdmi cable. To me the question is more of compatablilty not just pure quality. (I also have a lasar disk and old disks I wil be using with an Svideo connector.) Just looking to broaden my sources and don't want to run out and buy something that is not better than what I already own. Just upgraded to 1080 i this year and am not looking to another upgrade to 1080p just to accomodate a new DVD player just yet. What I am after is someone with a mits hc3000 or comperable 1080 I projector that has a hd dvd player in use with it and how is it set up and what is the quality. Does the player yield good 1080i over component cable? Does it do anything for std dvd over component cable to a 1080 i projector.

Josh Z

11-26-06, 04:02 PM

I tried posting there to see what I can learn. I can't really find much about the 1080I/720p aspect of the hd players. Everyone seems to be into the 1080p already. The comment I read had to do with the 1080I output not the 1080p

The 1080i output of the HD DVD player contains all of the original data as the 1080p master encoded on the disc. It just needs to be deinterlaced. Feeding it into an HC3000, the signal is going to be scaled to the projector's 720p native resolution anyway.

also the upconversion and 1080i output seems to be only in the hdmi output and I can't use that for the mits anyway as far as I know.

The HC3000 has an HDMI input. Why wouldn't you be able to use it?

To me the question is more of compatablilty not just pure quality. (I also have a lasar disk and old disks I wil be using with an Svideo connector.)

You seem to be on two separate topics here. Are you asking about the HC3000 in general, or the specific pairing of an HD DVD player with the HC3000? If the latter, I don't understand why you're bringing up laserdiscs.

What I am after is someone with a mits hc3000 or comperable 1080 I projector that has a hd dvd player in use with it and how is it set up and what is the quality.

The HC3000 is a 720p projector, not 1080i. A 1080i input signal will be scaled to 720p for display.

I use both an HD DVD player and a Blu-ray player with this projector and the results are great.

Does the player yield good 1080i over component cable?

It does, though the HDMI is a little sharper.

Does it do anything for std dvd over component cable to a 1080 i projector.

The HD DVD players will not upscale standard DVD over component, just over HDMI. The maximum output for DVD over component is 480p. The player will output HD DVD at full 1080i over component, however.

dadorama

11-26-06, 04:43 PM

Two questions regarding display using an Oppo 971H and the HC3000 with HDMI.

1) Sometimes the image dynamic range is great! Deep blacks, wide color/grey range, bright whites. But with some DVD's, the entire image looks very dark- lots of black with almost no shadow detail, over saturated looking colors, few bright areas. The Oppo has the latest firmware, so I'd think the black levels should be OK. The HC3000 is set the same as for "good images"- cinema, low color temp, low lamp, iris closed. And I've tried medium color temp, std lamp, iris open, raising the brightness setting- and it makes some difference, though still not very good.

2) Watching various movies widescreen (all using the HDMI input), the image doesn't always fill the screen. The Oppo is set to 720P, Wide/SQZ. The HC3000 is set to 720P (16:9) screen size and 16:9 aspect ratio. I expected black bars at the top or side sometimes, but not a small (say about 60% screen area) image in the center, meaning essentially black bars all around.

Thanks for any suggestions, Murray

Anthony1

11-26-06, 05:54 PM

Anacondabug

11-26-06, 06:14 PM

I just picked mine up today for 1499 from best buy. This will be my first projector ever. I have already set it up and adjusted a few things but it is no calibrated for squat atm. I have hooked up the HD DVD player from the Xbox 360, 931 Samsung DVD player and a PS2 to it. The HD DVD images look pretty good and some what sharp but in my opinion it isn't perfect at all. Detail seems to be lost when watching king kong HD DVD. The games however for the Xbox 360 don't seem bad at alll. The quality is very satisfying for sure. Regular DVD's aren't sharp and crisp as i'd like them to be. I can notice some movement blur from several scenes in different situations. Keep in mind I am using an Xbox 360 to view these dvds w/ a VGA cable hooked into the computer input of my projector.

I have yet to experiment with it more in detail and have not had it calibrated whatsoever so it's an early opinion so far straight out of the box. Also one other thing it could be me or a lack of sleep but when viewing the images on the wall w/ this projector I seem to get a little dizzy for some reason. I have heard of DLP's doing this in the past and never thought it would happen to me. Anyone else feel the same?

talon95

11-26-06, 06:24 PM

I was originally considering the HD70 and the HD1000U, but I saw the Mits HD3000U in Best Buys ad today, and was wondering if this is a good deal. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the price or not. Anybody know if Best Buy has a restocking fee. Also, what is the offset of the HD3000U?

I think the offset is around 34% and I got mine from BB today too. :) (and no, don't post the price, although someone else already did)

As an aside, I'm going to calibrate mine as best as I can by using my 4805 as a reference. I'll post my findings when I get it going. Need to get a DVI-->HDMI cable this week. Right now I'm just using component out on my HTPC.

Bill Shenefelt

11-26-06, 06:31 PM

I got mine last year for about $3K and still love it. Were I to go again with the prices down so much, I might look at 1080p but am pretty satisfied with what I have. Certainly not ready to go up a notch just yet.
Not sure what you mean by offset. Mine is ceiling mounted (lens about 6 inches below ceiling) and throws to a screen with the top (of the picture) at about 8 inches below the ceiling with no difficulty. It is pointed at a slight upward angle to do that.
Another writer mentioned dizzy. I have noticed that with made for TV stuff, it is tough to watch on a big screen. The whole picture "wants to be viewed" versus in a movie there is usually a point of interest with much of the screen providing backdrop. It is real tough to focus on the whole screen so to me it is great for made for movie movies but not for a lot of HD tv shows. I watch most of them on my 62 inch rear projector. There is also a blur to objects moving rapidly across the screen. Again not sure if a digital versus motion picture 35 mm or 70mm frame rate or what. All in all I love mine. If anything it is bright enough on low bulb power even in the daytime. A little room ambient light and it is a great thing to watch. In a totally dark room, it can be a little overwhealming. MAybe that is what the dizzyness is about too. Detail, contrast and color are more source movie etc dependant than anything I think. Some stuff blows your socks off and other stuff just looks good, but not "wow". Projector can only show what it is given to show.

Bill Shenefelt

11-26-06, 06:47 PM

Just a thought. Is motion blur somehow related to the "exposure time" for a frame on a digital video camera versus a movie film camera. Sure would explain the blur if a digital exposure for a frame is longer.

DVD MAN

11-26-06, 08:11 PM

Hello Gents,

Does anyone know how to check the lamp hrs on the HC3000?

Anacondabug

11-26-06, 08:15 PM

Thanks for the info. I gave it another go and this time I sat further away from the wall in which the projector displayed and have not gotten dizzy or any vision problems. Picture also seems better due to of course not being so close to the picture. Going to go thru more testing. But so far have been pleased in its picture quality. Calibration on its way as well so i'll see how it turns out. :)

Josh Z

11-26-06, 08:26 PM

Does anyone know how to check the lamp hrs on the HC3000?

On the projector body, press the Up, Down, and Enter buttons simultaneously. It may take a couple of tries.

Josh Z

11-26-06, 08:30 PM

1) Sometimes the image dynamic range is great! Deep blacks, wide color/grey range, bright whites. But with some DVD's, the entire image looks very dark- lots of black with almost no shadow detail, over saturated looking colors, few bright areas. The Oppo has the latest firmware, so I'd think the black levels should be OK.

Have you calibrated the projector with Avia or Digital Video Essentials? You should do that ASAP. After that, well some DVDs are simply not as well transferred as others.

2) Watching various movies widescreen (all using the HDMI input), the image doesn't always fill the screen. The Oppo is set to 720P, Wide/SQZ. The HC3000 is set to 720P (16:9) screen size and 16:9 aspect ratio. I expected black bars at the top or side sometimes, but not a small (say about 60% screen area) image in the center, meaning essentially black bars all around.

It would help if you'd provide us with the names of the DVDs in question, but I expect that you're watching non-anamorphic letterbox (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/welcome.html) discs.

dadorama

11-26-06, 09:27 PM

Thanks, Josh.

I'm reading the notes at the link you provided, very informative. One of the films I watched, "Six String Samurai" (really a lot of fun!) says letterbox version on the box, so that does explain it.

I have the Avia disc- I'll run through a calibration to my best ability. I'm just suprised that some films could look so good and others so much darker with the same player/projector settings...

DVD MAN

11-26-06, 09:59 PM

Thank You Josh !

Anthony1

11-27-06, 01:18 AM

boblinds

11-27-06, 02:41 AM

I have an HC3000 connected to an HD A1. I watched "Backdraft" and "The Perfect Storm" today. They looked spectacular with an 8-foot-wide picture (110-inch diagonal) on a matte white screen. I'm seated about 2x screen width away from the image.

Anacondabug

11-27-06, 07:48 AM

I have my Xbox 360 hooked up via VGA into the projector and the setting to WXGA. Is this the best setting and best connection I can get for my Xbox 360 and HD DVD player? Just wonderin.

DVD MAN

11-27-06, 02:44 PM

Hello Gents,

Today I am a changed man! I have converted to DLP.

After adjusting and calibrating the Mitsubishi HC3000 I have decided to keep this little gem in my system. This DLP projector is a breakthrough product that will be replacing my NEC XG-852 CRT projector. I have evaluated and tested so many LCDs and DLPs and the HC3000 just knocked my socks off. Understanding that I have had CRTs for over 8 years - I have never been a big fan of DLP until I saw this unit. Call me crazy but I saw the pearl and the Ruby and neither one of them left the impression that this little Mitsubishi did. So I have now decided to convert to the DARK SIDE of DLP.

1-Ease of setup
2-Exellent gray scale tracking
3-Great overall color fidelity
4-No burn or wear
5-Very Quite
6- I can not detect the color wheel effect.
7-Great color decoder with No red push
8-Great Black (NOT AS GOOD AS CRT)
9-Exellent 720P resolution (8”CRT’s Can display 720P and 1080I natively)

PS
I will not be getting rid of my NEC XG just yet just incase!!!!

Bill Shenefelt

11-27-06, 03:13 PM

DVD Man wrote: 8-Great Black (NOT AS GOOD AS CRT)

The Mits is pretty bright even on low bulb. Maybe one of the silver-gray screens would give you better blacks??? I used a CRT rear projector for years with no gray level decency so I'm happy using the white screen on mine.
Just a thought.

Paul_PDX

11-27-06, 03:45 PM

HC3000 or HD1000?

I am after approximately 120" diag 16:9 screen and wouldn't mind a small amount of light in the room sometimes.
If I am reading both specs correctly the 1000 is probably my best bet?? Or is the HD1000 to bright for a dark room at this size?

My room is about 16' deep with 8' ceiling where the screen will be (I could mount the screen behind the back wall with a port hole if I needed a bit more depth).

The $500 price diff is not a major issue in this choice I am mostly after functionality.

greggmo4

11-27-06, 04:11 PM

so how much life do you guys think my bulb has in it? I got my hc3000u last dec. i have 2400 hour on low lamp mode. and i started to get the prepare new lamp warning

DVD MAN

11-27-06, 06:14 PM

I have a totally light control home theater room. With a black flat painted wall. I am using a Stewart Studio Tek 90" 1.3 screen. Should I change the material to Firehawk?

Bill Shenefelt

11-27-06, 06:20 PM

I have the 3000. I use low bulb power, a very slight gain screen. I like a little room light or the screen is a bit hard on the eyes. Room light does not wash off brightness, just washes out blacks. Maybe with a silver gray or gray screen the blacks would be better with a little more room light. With what I get on mine, I think I could go with a lower gain (negative)screen, have some room light and still use low bulb. I would choose more on a difference in resolution, if any, than total lumens. Looks like they both use the same bulb so not sure where the lumen spec difference is coming from. I'd call them and ask about both the lumen and the resolution spec differences.

jmorton

11-27-06, 06:26 PM

I too am trying to decide between the 1000 and 3000. I have a light controlled room but I want enough lumens to be able to have doors open and some light on for sports, etc. The question I am struggling with is whether the 3000 has it bright enough with some light and/or is the 1000 too bright with all lights out for movies.

zapper

11-27-06, 06:27 PM

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask this or not, if not, then I apologize for that. I'm seriously thinking of getting this at Best Buy. I was just wondering if Best Buy has any 10 percent off coupons or anything else that could be used with this, to make it an absolute no brainer? If I could get another 10 percent off, then I basically would say F it and go buy it right away.

Today received a coupon from BB good through 12/10 for 10% off on Home theater systems, etc. So the coupon are out. But the coupon states 10% from the regular price :mad:

zapper

11-29-06, 07:29 PM

Well joined the HC 3000 crowd bought one today mow to tweak, tweak and tweak. Have 7 day's to return if need be to a local store, no fees.

So far the colors are better then my panny 500, but the Mts is DLP so it should bring out the colors better. :)

mrtbig

11-30-06, 03:03 PM

I am seriously looking at this projector for my brother-in-law. He has a 17' by 14' room with 10' ceillings, no windows, one door. This is new construction and not quite finished yet. Would this projector work?

His sources will be DirecTV satellite HDMI, upscaling DVD player on HDMI, I guess would have to go component or switch out HDMI port since only has one.

I noticed someone posted about moving images, so how is this projector on Sports?

Movies are probaly the #1 priority though.

randyox

11-30-06, 03:17 PM

I have had this projector now for almost a month. I am still in complete and utter awe of the picture that I get from this incredible projector. I am a huge sports fan and switched to the DishNetwork with HD. The football games in HD have been absolutely incredible! The only problem I have now is getting all my friends to leave. We just hooked up my sons XBox 360 over Thanksgiving and I have to tell ya, I have never been a gamer but after playing some of the games I may just have to take it up. Our family had a blast! My wife loves how good the picture looks and is always commenting on how wonderful it is to have a home theater now. My room is a family room in the basement that is 15 x 25 feet. The only slight problem that I have is that the ceiling is only 7'6" and I have some very slight keystoning. I'm the only one that notices so it's really not that big a deal. My screen size is 110" and we almost always watch movies and sports on the low level and we always have enough light.

All in all, we are extremely happy with this projector. I have had friends come over who have spent twice as much for theirs and they have walked away shaking their heads in disbelief at how awesome this projector is. If it sounds a little like I'm gushing...well, it's because I am. This is an incredible projector for sports, movies or gaming!

Another thing...you may want to check out Best Buys web site...this projector is on sale right now.... :D

tradewinds

11-30-06, 03:53 PM

randyox, can't wait to join you. I am going for the 3100, but it is incredible to hear the the 3000 performs so well.

Bill Shenefelt

11-30-06, 05:54 PM

First I assume he would go with a ceiling mount. For a nice 16 x 9 format acreen the projector likes to be about 14 to 15 ftfrom the screen to give an image about 8ft by 4 ft. He will need an HDMI cable to reach the projector from the switch or source. There is a Video storm CRM 62 which will switch 6 component video and audio sources to two component outputs and can accept an addition of another internal board which accept up to 6 (3 HDMI and 3 DVI) inputs with only a DVI output. IT does NOT convert component to DVI or HDMI though, but does convert digital audio between coax and optical. With this guy you start getting into bucks though. Assuming he has no way to switch sources in HD on his receiver, there is another switch, a CSW62 which only works on component video but he could use this one for all video except the HD DVD which needs the HDMI cable. Then run the HDMI directly to the projector from the HD DVD and a second cable for the component sources to the projector from the CSW62. That switch is about $159, about a quarter of the price of the other one. I had it first and absolutely love both of them. Great product. Uses a learned signal from your remote to do the switching. The HDDVD really wants the hdmi cable to upscale standard dvd's so he will want that cable to be attached to the DVD player. If he has an option of Component out from the sat receiver, he is in business. If not he will need a differnt switch than the CSW62 to allow switching of HDMI.
As for sports, I love mine. It does have some blur effect for things moving across the screen but as far as I know they all do. Not that much and if you are not looking for it, youmight not even notice it.

zapper

11-30-06, 09:33 PM

Rats, should had done more reading on this thread or should had looked at the HC 3000 manual and I would had realized that this PJ would had not been compatible with my screen size and the size from ceiling to floor distance.

My aspect ratio of the screen is 16.9 and my Diagonal size is 100" thus The HD is 16.5" from the center of the lens to the top of my screen. I'll either have to drop the screen down, which would look ridiculous or just return the PJ. If I understand the chart correctly.

Hate to give this PJ up since the colors are great and the price was reasonable. but Live and learn, I guess.

Mr Ian B

12-01-06, 01:35 AM

Any suggestions as to what my first movie should be to test the calibration?? It can be an SD, HD or BR dvd as I have both units.

Thanks,

Ian B

Bill Shenefelt

12-01-06, 08:47 AM

Rats,
My aspect ratio of the screen is 16.9 and my Diagonal size is 100" thus The HD is 16.5" from the center of the lens to the top of my screen. I'll either have to drop the screen down, which would look ridiculous or just return the PJ. If I understand the chart correctly.

.
Not sure what you are saying. (THe HD is 16.5-What's HD?) how far is the lens center above or below screen center viewing surface? I have my 3000 on the ceiling. The lens center is 5 1/4 ' from the ceiling, the screen vertical center is 38" from the ceiling My projector is pointed very slightly upward to hit the screen perfectly. This projector has both an internal "tilt" for the picture and some latitude in adjustment of keystoning. I dont see why you sould not make it work unless you are real close to center to center from lens to screen or somethingg and then you are in real trouble with anything betweent he projector and screen. I wouold think the projectr would be ceilnin mounted as would be the screen.

zapper

12-01-06, 10:23 AM

How tall is your ceiling? what size screen and distance from screen to PJ?

Bill Shenefelt

12-01-06, 11:03 AM

I have an 8 ft ceiling. The projector is about 14.5 ft from the screen. The screen is a 16 x 9 Dalite with a gain of approximately 1.2. The screen is about 4 ft by 8 ft I think the dimensions are 52 high by 92 wide on the reflective surface give or take half an inch. It is a manual pull down. To be right on with no tilting of the projector, it would have to be hung just a little lower. Maybe with the top around 16 inches from the ceiling. I like it high. You can almost walk across the room half way between the proector and screen without casting enough shadow to bother anyone else watching. Both my projector and screen are about as High as I could get them. I could get the screen a couple of inches higher but not the projector. By the time you put a mount on the ceiling, the lens is down 5 inches at least. What is your ceiling ht? Are you ceiling mounting the screen and projector. The only problem I would see is if you had real low ceilings and the projector would be bumped by tall people. I feel sure I could drop my screen at least a foot or more with no problems with squaring up the picture. It probably should be 6 inches lower as is to be perfect.

zapper

12-01-06, 02:04 PM

Aircooled

12-01-06, 02:18 PM

I am probably wrong but I think the 16.5 refered to is the distance from the middle of the lens to where the top of the screen will "result" for that screen size. That leaves the middle of the lens , and the projector itself, mounted as high as possible to the ceiling. If you have a suspended ceiling, you can cut out the portion of the ceiling panel over the projector, and mount to the joists to get the projector effectively "sitting" on the ceiling.

zapper

12-01-06, 02:37 PM

You might be right, if that is the case you made my day, week and entire year. :D

Perhaps I am just over reading, hope. :(

Bill Shenefelt

12-01-06, 05:32 PM

zapper

12-01-06, 05:38 PM

I am presently pulling down the old PJ and stationing the 3000 by that site to see what it looks like, then going from their. ;)

zapper

12-01-06, 11:08 PM

Is their a thread about the Mits 3000 tweaks . :)

mobius

12-02-06, 03:06 AM

Thank's for the reply, my ceiling is about 7' from the ceiling tiles down to the basement carpet. Currently have a Panny 500 PJ hooked up and my screen is only about 6" from the top of the ceiling.

The Hd that was talking about is the distance from the center of the lens on the 300 to the top of the screen in accordance to the 300 manual on page 12. My screen size is 100" diag, 49" height and 87' wide and the book states that the HD in question has to be 16.5" from the top of the screen to the middle of the lens.

Could lower the Fixed attached Carada screen but would have the following measures 16.5" + 49 " = 65.5" or 5' 9 ", leaving about 15" or so from the floor, I could live with this except that the PJ would be down about 18" from the ceiling tiles and it would look like hell besides a accident waiting to happen.

I take it you have a drop ceiling? If so, why not remove one or two of the tiles and mount the projector in fashion in which it's top most portion is slightly above tile level? IOW, you would be countersinking the PJ into the ceiling just far enough to avoid lens obstruction. You could then build a box of sorts up into the ceiling to hide the unfinish appearance above the tiles.

pomc

12-03-06, 12:18 PM

I cannot enable LPF from the menu - the option is in white and not selectable. When scrolling down the menu, it just skips over that option.

I wanted to see if it corrects the problem I am having - or if anyone else has any ideas. I'm connecting my Buffalo Linktheater to the projector via the component inputs and viewing 720p video. On bright scenes, I have faint diagonal lines that appear to slowly move from the left corner down to the right corner.

I am using a 25' cable that I purchased from Monoprice. Using that same cable, I connected to my 720p DVD player and did not see the effect. I also could not notice the effect when playing a DVD via the Linktheater.

I connected the cable to my 32" LCD, which up until now was my source for viewing Buffalo HDTV content, and did not see the effect.

I am currently using a pull down Panoview white screen that I've been using for the projector in my PC room while I wait for a new 16:9 screen to arrive. I'm unsure of the specs of the screen though because I've had it for some time. If there are labels on the screen that would tell me the specs or model, then let me know and I'll check.

So with my checking, it appears I at least want to try to enable LPF, but I cannot. I must be overlooking an option so I can enable LPF. Or the screen could possibly be causing the effect. In that case, what type of screen would not cause this effect?

Update - the lines occur not matter what type of screen the image is projected onto. Wall, white sheet, gray and white paper. The moving lines are present.

In a bit I'm going to move the Buffalo next to the projector so that I can connect them using the Monster component cables I've been using for the LCD TV. At least I can rule out the 25' cable by doing this.

Thanks for reading and helping.

Rick

You can enable the LPF (page 29 in the user manual) found in the signal menu.

I am thinking of going with Vutec Vu-easy 133" diagonal screen with britewhite material (1.5 gain).

zapper

12-03-06, 10:23 PM

My projector center of lens to ceiling is 5 1/4 inches. The top of the view area of the screen is 13 1?$ inches and could be higher if I wanted. The projector is tilted slightly at an up0ward angle but the adjustemnts of the keystone and the internal adjustment are more than adequate to fix this to get a square picture with no distortion that I can see. I would suggest you build a small box above the suspended ceiling to let the projector mount almost flush with the ceiling tile and the mount be sort of hiden. . Gets it out of the way of heads and would help your screen be mounted higher. I really don't think you should have any problem. If the 16 inch HD is the center lens to screen top, I violate that quite a bit. Figure mine must be about 8 not 16 inches. Might be ok without the "recess" of the mount, but you cant mount it ont he suspension lattice anyway.

Set up my projector about 12.9' from screen,it's tilted upward about a 30 degrees and using keystone at +5, yet their is distortion when viewing the picture on the right side is a little upward and I am at Max Zoom at only 12.9' :(

The front side of the PJ is just about flush with the ceiling at the back is tilted downward that where I am getting the 30 degrees or so of tilt, also getting some sort of light leakage on the right side of the srceen never seen this before it appears that is not from the video?????

Screen is about 5" below the ceiling tile, then 49" down excluding the 2" black borders on The Carada screen leaving about 28" on the bottom wall. Never had a problem with my Panny 500 and now the 3000 is giving me a run for the money. :eek:

Bill Shenefelt

12-03-06, 11:13 PM

If you can't eliminate the distortion or raise the projector or lower the screen, maybe move it closer to the screen or change zoom to give up a couple of inches of image height on the screen? Just a thought. Are you using the feature in the projector (not just keystone) that shifts the image? There is one you know.

talon95

12-04-06, 06:05 AM

Somebody(s) help me out here.

I think my 1 week old 3000 has started making a louder whine. It's definitely the color wheel. What's ironic is that I noticed it just after mounting it on the ceiling. I guess it's possible I just didn't hear it sitting under the coffee table for the last week (right next to me, but below). During that time though, I couldn't even tell it was on (in low lamp mode).

As I found a couple of other people report in this thread, I can even hear it sometimes during movie watching. It's a fairly high pitched whine that changes pitch as I switch resolutions/refresh rates.

Which brings me to my question, what's normal color wheel noise for this projector? Does what I describe above sound normal, or too loud?

tomasz

12-04-06, 07:43 AM

rboster

12-04-06, 08:41 AM

What is KEYSTONE?

I put keystone in google and came up with this page from the search:

http://www.projectorpeople.com/resources/keystone-correction.asp

We also have quite a few threads on the topic within this forum. The best way to search is advance search, title search only, limit words to one or two...in this case "keystone" and make sure to highlight the appropriate forum from the list to the right.

It's much easier to use the search engine, then wait for a response. Or, we do have search within a thread engine too. It's on the first page of any thread.

Ron

Bill Shenefelt

12-04-06, 10:02 AM

Bill Shenefelt

12-04-06, 10:04 AM

richlo

12-04-06, 10:07 AM

Is their a thread about the Mits 3000 tweaks . :)

Because there is no hidden service menu, there isnt much to go by, in addition with bulb type of technology, the transferring of info from one person to another is not a good option.

But here are a couple of things that I have heard to use:

For HDMI

Sharpness -2
NO COLOR OR TINT available in the Mits for HDMI (but its pretty accurate)
Medium temp setting (if you have an older version of the mIts, then 5900 not 6500) -some may use LOW temp
BC off
Iris Closed
Cinema for Gamma
Low Lamp

talon95

12-04-06, 10:09 AM

I do not hear anything louder than the fan on my 3000. It is pretty quiet when running and only noticible when I turn off the projector and it goes on high fan to cool the bulb after shutoff. I cannot say that I would not hear a whine were I to get my head right next to it, but do not hear anything above the fan when seated in the room and the fan is pretty quiet. I could contact Mits to see if warrantee service is needed.

Thanks. That's what I thought. Until yesterday, I couldn't hardly tell it was on at all in low lamp mode. I bought it at Best Buy a week ago, so I'll just go for a swap. Hopefully one of the stores has one in stock.

richlo

12-04-06, 10:10 AM

by the way Best Buy just had a drop in price on the Mits3000U by me..you may want to check it for price adjustment :0)

talon95

12-04-06, 10:56 AM

by the way Best Buy just had a drop in price on the Mits3000U by me..you may want to check it for price adjustment :0)

Well, unless it went down again last week, I got that lower price (week ago Sunday). Why I bought it! :) I'll double check to be sure though, thanks.

tomasz

12-04-06, 11:18 AM

Keystone is the width at the top different than the width at the bottom or height on one side bigger than height on the other side. Adjusting keystone is "squaring" up the picture. Keystone requires changes with changes of the angle of the projected image to the screen.

Thanks for the response. One more quastion, how do you adjust it? Do you have to buy lens or it is with in the PJ?
Thanks again.

zapper

12-04-06, 12:28 PM

The keystone is right on the PJ, the remote has 2 buttons on it one to get to the keystone adjustment and the second to adjust what ever side you need and the amount of keystone, remember the more adjustment the more of a little distortion of the picture.

If I recall correctly read somewhere that shouldn't adjust anymore then 6%, how that was determined, who knows.

Someone jump in If I am wrong, and give more light to this matter.

pomc

12-04-06, 12:52 PM

Found the problem. First I connected a 25' ethernet cable so I could bring the Buffalo close to the 3000 in order to connect other shorter component cables. Same diagonal lines.

So I had ruled out cabling and screen types as the cause of the lines. Still could not enable LPF from the menu which I was thinking would solve the problem from what the manual suggests.

But the manual also suggested that certain DVD players may cause the lines to be displayed. So I began to check the settings on the Buffalo with no luck. Then for the hell of it I decided to roll back to earlier firmware.

IT WORKED! No more moving diagonal lines across the screen. Not sure what the deal was though. I had only upgraded to the newer firmware because I wanted to try it out and didn't have a specific reason. So I'm not losing any features or fixes that I was aware of by rolling back the firmware.

But still - any idea why the LPF setting is not configurable?

I cannot enable LPF from the menu - the option is in white and not selectable. When scrolling down the menu, it just skips over that option.

I wanted to see if it corrects the problem I am having - or if anyone else has any ideas. I'm connecting my Buffalo Linktheater to the projector via the component inputs and viewing 720p video. On bright scenes, I have faint diagonal lines that appear to slowly move from the left corner down to the right corner.

I am using a 25' cable that I purchased from Monoprice. Using that same cable, I connected to my 720p DVD player and did not see the effect. I also could not notice the effect when playing a DVD via the Linktheater.

I connected the cable to my 32" LCD, which up until now was my source for viewing Buffalo HDTV content, and did not see the effect.

I am currently using a pull down Panoview white screen that I've been using for the projector in my PC room while I wait for a new 16:9 screen to arrive. I'm unsure of the specs of the screen though because I've had it for some time. If there are labels on the screen that would tell me the specs or model, then let me know and I'll check.

So with my checking, it appears I at least want to try to enable LPF, but I cannot. I must be overlooking an option so I can enable LPF. Or the screen could possibly be causing the effect. In that case, what type of screen would not cause this effect?

Update - the lines occur not matter what type of screen the image is projected onto. Wall, white sheet, gray and white paper. The moving lines are present.

In a bit I'm going to move the Buffalo next to the projector so that I can connect them using the Monster component cables I've been using for the LCD TV. At least I can rule out the 25' cable by doing this.

Thanks for reading and helping.

Rick

talon95

12-04-06, 02:10 PM

That was a huge hassle to get my projector swapped out at Bestbuy. I recommend as others do, NEVER buy anything from them. I finally got a replacement.

tomasz

12-04-06, 03:34 PM

That was a huge hassle to get my projector swapped out at Bestbuy. I recommend as others do, NEVER buy anything from them. I finally got a replacement.

Well I'm buying mine this week from local store for a lot less then what best buy is selling fro :D.

Now what screen are you guys using with this machine? Or what would you recommend?

richlo

12-04-06, 04:43 PM

Good for you Tomasz, nice to see people getting bargains on a very very good projecotr..

I hear that the Dalite hipower is very good for table mounting projector, not sure for ceiling mount. At the moment I have a HCGrey Elite cinetension screen that I love but would be wanting to upgrade to a SMX electronic screen when they come out...

If your looking for fixed frame, then perhaps a Carada Brilliant White will do..

zapper

12-04-06, 07:55 PM

Well I'm buying mine this week from local store for a lot less then what best buy is selling fro :D.

Now what screen are you guys using with this machine? Or what would you recommend?

I have a Carada fixed, 16.9 white screen easy to install and excellent customer service. Did you but it at abc, the local store.

talon95

12-04-06, 08:00 PM

2nd unit had a bad bulb, so I've got nothing now. Just got my money back since BB didn't have any more of them. :(

tomasz

12-04-06, 08:10 PM

I have a Carada fixed, 16.9 white screen easy to install and excellent customer service. Did you but it at abc, the local store.

Yes, that is where I plan to buy it this friday (CHEAP, shhh) :D

Also this is the screen I'm looking at. Are you happy with your setup?

zapper

12-04-06, 08:21 PM

My first PJ was a Panny 500 about 3 years old, LCD. Like the DLP but having slight problem adjusting the PJ to the screen, otherwise I am satisfied better colors, etc.

I am ready to go and do some more tweaking.

richlo

12-04-06, 09:52 PM

Just in case anyone is curious...here is my setting and Im tracking beautifully on my greyscale using HCFR and Spyder2 and I have a 2.19 gamma tracking..

HDMI (only input I calibrated)

Gamma, user1, cinema, 1,-3,-1
Contrast -2
Brightness4
User color temp:
ContRed 16
ContGreen 0
ContBlue -6
BrightRed -3
Bright G 0
Bright B 4
Low Lamp
Closed IRIS
BC closed
Sharpness -2

Lamp is probably under 50hrs (not over for sure)
HCGrey screen from Elite.

My main struggle with trying to figure out was how to set contrast and brightness for DLP, then after some digging this is what I came up with.

Bring up the Pluge needle pulse pattern in AVIA that helps you set contrast. Look at the bottom two white bars if you dont see two of them, then your setting is to high, lower your contrast until you see both, bring it back up until one of the bars dissapears, and click back about 2, you should see both bars. For Brightness, this is actually easy. Bring up a 0IRE (black), then bring up brightness up - you will see dithering (almost like mosquito noise from the mirros) and then bring it down until its it dissapears (mirrors shut off) this is your brightness - you may click one up or settle for that..make sure you walk up to your screen to see this..sitting back doesnt help much for setting brightness

I know not everything is transferrable - maybe really most time- never - but have fun with it..

zapper

12-04-06, 11:51 PM

It's to bad that that the Mits 3000 does not have it's own tweak thread, I am aware that the PJ has been around about 10 months or so and yet no one ever bother on setting a Thread on this matter :confused:

krasmuzik

12-05-06, 12:47 AM

talon95

12-05-06, 03:46 AM

Yea, richlo's #'s are very similar to mine relative to each other. He's just got them bumped up, rather than cutting as you suggest Kras.

As I posted in the 1000 vs 3000 thread, this is what I got when comparing side by side with my 4805 (clone mode via DVI on my HTPC):

CR: 2
CG: -7
CB: -16
BR: -3
BG: 0
BB: 0

richlo

12-05-06, 06:35 AM

richlo

You should learn to calibrate at 100% white levels. I can tell that you must not have because you raised Red significantly - the lamps are always short of Red - so where did you get all that extra Red from? When you calibrate at near whites - it appears you have some Red to gain - but you just "borrowed" it from the max white. You are very likely clipping your bright Reds - and should have cut your Blues/Greens instead.

Thanks Kras,

Im still learning from you all..and that was spinning up in my head on that..i guess there are so many ways to hit 6500K, although my intent was to get the RBG levels at 100% across..So if I backoff fro ContRed, then where should I be looking to increase??

btw..is the temperature Contrast for setting White level and Brighness for black level in greyscale?? Im use to bias/gains, or cuts/drives as greyscale adjustments.

talon95

12-05-06, 12:15 PM

mobius

12-05-06, 02:08 PM

Does the HC3000 have sufficient brightness for a 98" diagonal (48" x 85.3") BOC screen, or would I have to go smaller? Also, after the bulb reaches it's half-life, would I still have acceptable lumen output provided that requisite brightness/contrast adjustments are made?

Bill Shenefelt

12-05-06, 02:20 PM

krasmuzik

12-05-06, 03:41 PM

Yea, same as the normal controls. Contrast sets the high end, brightness the low end.

I think as Kras said, you're just at risk of clipping the reds with those settings. Similar to setting the overall contrast too high and clipping the whites.

Interesting too that both of our settings show a fairly large deviation, not too far off from the original Cine4Home review.

This thread should explain the RGB histogram and why it is not a more or less instruction....note the original poster is measuring "calibrated" settings obtained online and only realized how futile that was once he had it actually calibrated (or was trying to understand anyways) ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=754496

The drawback when you cut Green is it gets dimmer - but that just means a gain screen - and is better than crushed Reds.

Are both of yours the new 'Med' rather than '6500K' menu? So much for the calibrated OOTB theory -it should now be plainly obvious to everyone that review sites are getting pre-tweaked units! Especially when you consider your SP4805 might be faded from original calibration (lamp life or dirty colorwheel) and may not be the best reference anymore.

Increasing Red does work on LCD though - because the panels may do 1000 lumens - but to avoid Blue gamma wierdness it is actually turned down to 200 lumens. So plenty of headroom left in those. The experienced calibrator knows not only how to find the clipping limits - but also where the gamma does not fit the curve or where colorshifts begin to happen...and how master brightness/contrast interact.

mobius

12-05-06, 04:28 PM

With low room lighting I would think it will be plenty bright even on low lamp mode. Not sure the gain (how negative) the screen you mention is though. in my room with a 105 diagonal 1.2 gain screen, full close on the Iris low bulb setting and low room lighting, mine is every bit as bright as my rear projector DLP TV. Washes out somewhat of course with daytime room light versus the TV. Were I to go again, I would probably get a darker screen in one of the gray-silver tones to help in daytime viewing without drawing the blinds. In a dark room it actually needs a little ambient room light to cut down the brightness for me.

Thanks for the response Bill.

BOC or Black-Out Cloth is ~1.0 gain I think.

My room is light-controlled. Outside of various equipment LED's (soon to be no LED's), I have no ambient light issues. From my reading, near calibration, this thing is spec'ing out at about 500 lumens. My only concern was after the bulb dims, would it still be adequately bright with recalibration via DVE or AVIA.

richlo

12-05-06, 04:30 PM

yes - mine is the Medium one..

richlo

12-05-06, 04:39 PM

Thanks for the response Bill.

BOC or Black-Out Cloth is ~1.0 gain I think.

My room is light-controlled. Outside of various equipment LED's (soon to be no LED's), I have no ambient light issues. From my reading, near calibration, this thing is spec'ing out at about 500 lumens. My only concern was after the bulb dims, would it still be adequately bright with recalibration via DVE or AVIA.

I think you may be able to counter act with open iris and bc-on afterwards..when the bulb starts to dim..

talon95

12-05-06, 06:22 PM

Are both of yours the new 'Med' rather than '6500K' menu? So much for the calibrated OOTB theory -it should now be plainly obvious to everyone that review sites are getting pre-tweaked units! Especially when you consider your SP4805 might be faded from original calibration (lamp life or dirty colorwheel) and may not be the best reference anymore.

"Low/Medium/High" on the one I had. I used "Low" to start with as it appeared to be the warmest. I'm sure my 4805 is faded some, but maybe not too bad with only 300-400 hours on it. It runs in a relatively clean environment also (theater room, no open windows, no smoke, etc...).

And thanks for the link. I think I understood anyway from reading all of your other posts. Lots of great help and much appreciated.

I didn't bother looking for the max on the gains since you and others seem to be pulling them down given the brightness loss (and I don't have the right patterns to test for it anyway right now). Cine4Home did the same thing.

Unfortunately I'm back to my 4805 since the 3000's wheel died an early death. I contacted the AVS guys today though. They do have great prices, so I'll probably either get another 3000u or splurge for an IN76. My eyes were wearing out by the time I got done tweaking the 3000 against the 4805 Sunday!

krasmuzik

12-05-06, 07:09 PM

talon95

You would think that is true that DLP always clips red and is preset to max it out. But then some manufacturers do not even bother to tune them even for that - forget about D65. So you still need to check! Infocus clips immediately on all the colors - they are maxed digitally so the optical mixing for the color temp is done (6500K and 7500K bracket the native temp around 7000K). You maximize dynamic range that way (sounds like MitsuHC3100 is same way) Some mix digitally and don't ever mix optically - the native temp is 10000K and you turn blues and greens way way down with the presets. And if you ever use the VGA input - it is dependent on line voltages and no assumptions can be made.

zapper

12-05-06, 08:05 PM

Did not realized until I bought the 3000 that it does not have a shut off switch, what are you guy's using? and where can it be bought.

Josh Z

12-05-06, 09:18 PM

Did not realized until I bought the 3000 that it does not have a shut off switch, what are you guy's using? and where can it be bought.

Mine is shelf mounted, so I physically unplug it after the cool-down period.

If you're ceiling mounted, you could plug it in to a power strip and turn it off there.

In either case, you should always turn off the projector with the remote and let it run through the full cool-down cycle first.

mobius

12-05-06, 09:37 PM

I think you may be able to counter act with open iris and bc-on afterwards..when the bulb starts to dim..

Wouldn't BC screw up my color balance though? After the bulb dims, if you open the iris can you still bring the contrast/brightness back into spec with DVE.

OR

Assuming that BOC = 1.0 gain and the HC3000 = 500 lumens calibrated, then I figure that I'll get ~17.6fL when the bulb is new.

With Da-Lite HP Model B (same screen size), assuming Kras's estimation of ~1.5 gain, then I'd get 26.4fL when the bulb is new.

If I were to replace the screen when I buy the PJ, then I could use an ND2 filter and take it off once the bulb starts dimming. Or, I could just replace my BOC screen with the HP down the road when the bulb starts dimming.

Any thoughts?

zapper

12-05-06, 10:27 PM

Mine is shelf mounted, so I physically unplug it after the cool-down period.

If you're ceiling mounted, you could plug it in to a power strip and turn it off there.

In either case, you should always turn off the projector with the remote and let it run through the full cool-down cycle first.

Have a surge protector, so will use your method just shut it down.

FremontRich

12-05-06, 10:46 PM

Did not realized until I bought the 3000 that it does not have a shut off switch, what are you guy's using? and where can it be bought.

I use my remote to turn off my Mits HC3000U. It's fed through a double conversion Triplite UPS and the UPS stays on all the time.

zapper

12-05-06, 11:15 PM

What is a double conversion triplite UPS

FremontRich

12-06-06, 03:29 AM

What is a double conversion triplite UPS

Most UPSs are actually standby units which means that when the commercial power goes out the UPS switches over to the batteries. In a double conversion UPS the commecial power is converted to dc which charges the battery then another converter takes the dc from the battery and converts it to ac which feeds the projector (or whatever). This eliminates the switching over which sometimes may not be quick enough to sustain the arc of the projector lamp. Tripplite is the manufacturer of the double conversion UPS.

I have this unit:

http://www.provantage.com/tripp-lite-su1000xla~7TRPL1KT.htm

talon95

12-06-06, 06:10 AM

Wouldn't BC screw up my color balance though? After the bulb dims, if you open the iris can you still bring the contrast/brightness back into spec with DVE.

OR

Assuming that BOC = 1.0 gain and the HC3000 = 500 lumens calibrated, then I figure that I'll get ~17.6fL when the bulb is new.

With Da-Lite HP Model B (same screen size), assuming Kras's estimation of ~1.5 gain, then I'd get 26.4fL when the bulb is new.

If I were to replace the screen when I buy the PJ, then I could use an ND2 filter and take it off once the bulb starts dimming. Or, I could just replace my BOC screen with the HP down the road when the bulb starts dimming.

Any thoughts?

BC does alter the color balance somewhat, although not too badly. Try it and see if you find it objectionable. If not, then use it. If so, then look at alternatives like opening the iris and/or getting a screen.

Your idea of getting a screen later is a good one though, and one I've considered as well. Just be sure you can really get that level of gain from a hipower. The best thing to do is get a hipower sample from Dalite and stick it on your existing screen and see if it's really a lot brighter or not in your normal viewing position(s).

Bill Shenefelt

12-06-06, 08:59 AM

I'm not sure what ratings really tell you. I had an Infocus x1 which was rated at 1000 lumens. It had a 150 watt bulb. My 3000U has a 200 watt bulb. I can tell you that on the same screen with the same room lighting the 3000U is nothing like the infocus. The brightness on screen is MUCH greater. It actually took some time to get used to. I was looking at ways to tone it down a bit. With the Infocus I needed to really darken the room but witht he 3000U I need some ambient light (full close Iris, low power on bulb) to not get a headache viewing. Somehow I think the human eye will probably adapt to the loss of brightness over the aging of the bulb. Remember F stops on a camera. Cut the light in half and you barely see a difference when viewing by eye. You need a meter to know what to do on the camera exposure. Like the ear, the eye is sensitive on a lograthmic scale. Cut the light by half and the eye's Iris opens a bit to gather the same amount of light. I don't have much time on my bulb yet but I'm not worried at this point.
As for powering my 3000 U I also use a UPS. Got one for the infocus since if it lost power, when the power returned the stupid thing would power up. No big deal, but if not at home, could sure put some hours on it needlessly. I keep it in the circuit for the 3000 U amore as a power surge protector than anything though. At least it would keep the fan going once turned off as a bulb protector should the power go out when viewing.

talon95

12-06-06, 09:22 AM

I agree with what you're saying Bill, and it is true, although it can get dim enough that most will start to notice. Whether that happens with the 3000 depends on the person, screen size, gain, etc....

As a reference for people, the brand new 3000u (low lamp, iris closed, BC off) had slightly less visible brightness than my 300-400 hour Infocus 4805.

DaGamePimp

12-06-06, 01:56 PM

My roughly 600 hour HC3000 is still really bright at 120" in low lamp with Iris closed and BC off (Dalite HiPower screen / ceiling mounted) . If I set it to standard lamp and open the Iris I can roast marshmellows ;) .

-------- Jason

talon95

12-06-06, 02:13 PM

Bill Shenefelt

12-06-06, 02:54 PM

I ran into what I think is a good warrantee deal. Will cost me $378 for a 5 year warrantee after Manufacturers warranty quits covering any item or cost for both bulb (limited to two replacements) and projector with in home service by a mits service center. (the warrantee is not completely 5 years since the Mits is 2 year- sort of-as Mits covers most of the service but not all for the full 2 years). This after market covers costs once Mits does not and continues for 5 years for that item cost. This was the price for my projector cost which fit into <under $3500> so it would be even less for the more recent purchases (I paid $2995 last year. ) Just thought I'd post the info. Seemed a good deal fto me anyway so I am buying it.

DaGamePimp

12-06-06, 04:16 PM

Just as a reference, how far above your head is the projector, 3 or 4 feet? (to gauge screen gain)

Close to 4' .

-- Jason

mobius

12-06-06, 06:48 PM

In my quest for context and meaning to my lumen questions, I decided to read again Cine4home's review of the HC3000 and the HC3100/HC1100.

Here's Cine4home’s numbers from the HC3100/HC1100 Review:

HC-3100 - Measurements "D65 / 6500K "

MODE: IRIS CLOSED/LIGHT: LOW- 490 lumens @ 3000:1 CR
MODE: IRIS CLOSED/LIGHT: HIGH- 620 lumens @ 3000:1 CR

MODE: IRIS OPEN/LIGHT: LOW- 780 lumens @ 2300:1 CR
MODE: IRIS OPEN/LIGHT: HIGH- 970 lumens @ 2300:1 CR

HC-1100 - Measurements "D65/6500K"

MODE: IRIS CLOSED/LIGHT: LOW- 650 lumens @ 1800:1 CR
MODE: IRIS OPEN/LIGHT: HIGH- 800 lumens @ 1800:1 CR

MODE: IRIS OPEN/LIGHT: LOW- 750 lumens @ 2200:1 CR
MODE: IRIS CLOSED/LIGHT: HIGH- 950 lumens @ 2200:1 CR

For the HC3000, they mentioned 2300:1 CR after calibration. I assume that they mean @ 5900K/cinema grayscale + iris closed. I couldn't find any mention of calibrated lumen output after calibration.

BTW Kras, I read the Refactory numbers from your HC3000 review and it looked like you obtained 284 lumens @ 1547:1 CR. I assume that was with gamma = 2.26. Is that correct?

krasmuzik

12-06-06, 07:31 PM

Gamma is irrelevant to calibrated performance - that is what happens between the blacks and whites and does not impact specs (beyond tiny remeasurement errors). Though videophiles prefer the gamma that is flat tonally and around that of the master (2.22)- you should change it to fit the source and room.

Zoom lens impacts brightness/contrast numbers a lot - as does lamp age. My review is with a burn-in lamp - which typically even hundred hours of burn-in is a 25% brightness drop.

While cine4home.de did not list lumens - you can somewhat extrapolate from the contrast numbers they got that there is likely a 20% drop from the 3100 numbers down to 3000. Then throw in another 25% drop for the burned in lamp - then the HC3000 at highest calibrated contrast is around 300 lumens burned in - 400 lumens new - which is what I have measured. Just perfect for an 8' HighPower screen DaGamePimp has (he is using the longer throw with low apt. ceilings - results in more gain) - but not enough for the FireHawk screen the review unit was used on (have to open IRIS and turn on the BC)

I got lesser contrast - that results from the burned-in lamp - you lose more blue/green trying to compensate for the bad grayscale presets - and from the Red having faded already from when new. I generally do not compromise brightest white accuracy in the interest of popping that contrast number - while I will store such a calibration if someone wants it - they generally get back to me and say they prefer the accurate version. Cine4home latest reviews are better about listing the mode the contrast/brightness came from - as well as finding the brightest mode so you can compare their lamp to specs.

But this is always the case - the higher the contrast the dimmer it gets!

talon95

12-06-06, 08:03 PM

While cine4home.de did not list lumens - you can somewhat extrapolate from the contrast numbers they got that there is likely a 20% drop from the 3100 numbers down to 3000. Then throw in another 25% drop for the burned in lamp - then the HC3000 at highest calibrated contrast is around 300 lumens burned in - 400 lumens new - which is what I have measured. Just perfect for an 8' HighPower screen DaGamePimp has (he is using the longer throw with low apt. ceilings - results in more gain) - but not enough for the FireHawk screen the review unit was used on (have to open IRIS and turn on the BC)

One thing people should remember when comparing to other projectors though, is that the 300 lumen # is with the iris closed. Iris open should be 450-500 if I read your review correctly (about 60% bump, Cine4home got the same # on the 3100).

Cine4Home also got 540 lumens (I averaged the short/long throw #'s) in low lamp mode on the IN76. It has no iris.

I agree the 3000 takes a hit from calibration, but it's not really that big. I flipped back and forth between my user settings and "low". Low was brighter, but not hugely so. Nowhere near the difference you see from opening/closing the iris.

I'm only pointing this out because it's easy for this to confuse people when first reading this thread (I was!). :)

mobius

12-06-06, 08:22 PM

Thanks for the reply Kras.

So, assuming 400 lumens calibrated when new, I should expect about 14 fL from my 28.4 sq. ft (BOC screen assuming gain = 1.0). After burn-in @ ~300 lumens, I'd be seeing roughly 10.5 fL off the screen (BOC).

Hmmm, would you say that with my screen size that a High Power is a necessity with this PJ Kras?

One thing people should remember when comparing to other projectors though, is that the 300 lumen # is with the iris closed. Iris open should be 450-500 if I read your review correctly (about 60% bump, Cine4home got the same # on the 3100).

Cine4Home also got 540 lumens (I averaged the short/long throw #'s) in low lamp mode on the IN76. It has no iris.

I agree the 3000 takes a hit from calibration, but it's not really that big. I flipped back and forth between my user settings and "low". Low was brighter, but not hugely so. Nowhere near the difference you see from opening/closing the iris.

I'm only pointing this out because it's easy for this to confuse people when first reading this thread (I was!). :)

Does this mean that after the bulb dims that you can recover lumen output by opening the iris, (while also) maintaining the calibrated CR?

zapper

12-06-06, 09:44 PM

Keep on reading about Krasmuzik calibration thread in regards to the Mits 3000, but have been unable to find it. Could someone direct me in the right direction.

talon95

12-06-06, 09:45 PM

You gain the light output, but loose whatever CR the iris provides. If you look at KRAS' #'s though, the CR loss is modest. 1777-->1457 (HDMI)

talon95

12-06-06, 09:46 PM

Keep on reading about Krasmuzik calibration thread in regards to the Mits 3000, but have been unable to find it. Could someone direct me in the right direction.

It's on his website, check his profile.

zapper

12-06-06, 09:53 PM

Thanks, that was easy and stupid on my part, oh well.

ccray42

12-07-06, 01:53 PM

krasmuzik

12-07-06, 02:03 PM

Thanks for the reply Kras.

So, assuming 400 lumens calibrated when new, I should expect about 14 fL from my 28.4 sq. ft (BOC screen assuming gain = 1.0). After burn-in @ ~300 lumens, I'd be seeing roughly 10.5 fL off the screen (BOC).

Hmmm, would you say that with my screen size that a High Power is a necessity with this PJ Kras?

Does this mean that after the bulb dims that you can recover lumen output by opening the iris, (while also) maintaining the calibrated CR?

You should target 16ftL to start - opening the IRIS is better for ambient lite situations as you lose contrast to tradeoff for brightness - and the room would wash out any contrast you had anyways.

If you want to keep brightness - then jump up your lamp power - because after burn-in you will slowly drop to 200 lumens - or get a 1.3 gain screen if you don't want to burn-out the lamp faster!. Keep in mind to have that gain at installation angles - some brite white screens are not angular reflective for ceiling mounts - but retroreflective - so you would lose. Test screen gain samples with your head and PJ in installed positions!

talon95

12-07-06, 02:06 PM

A question about placement? I have read various threads and reviews discussing the loss of brightness as you reach maximum zoom limit, as well as some who have mentioned that there are zoom ranges that result in less sharpness. For you experts out there, what are your recommendations for the throw range position given these two considerations. I will use a 106 Carada BW in a light-controlled environment, dark walls and ceiling, 21 ft by 14 ft. If 15 ft is the max throw range, how far back should I place the projector?

Thanks

It should have plenty of light for your screen, so going 1/2 way between min/max zoom is probably best (to stay away from any image distortion, and give some image size adjustment range).

For the 3000, the difference in brightness from max to min zoom is fairly small anyway. Probably 15-20%. I guessing that from the IN76 review on Cine4home, where they measured both. The zoom range is similar between the IN76 and 3000, so that's probably a reasonable guess.

krasmuzik

12-07-06, 02:38 PM

Cine4Home also got 540 lumens (I averaged the short/long throw #'s) in low lamp mode on the IN76. It has no iris.

This is why it is better to deal in % than absolutes because of the lens throws and varied lamp burn-in and QA variance and hi/lo powers

When I measured the IN76 brand new- I obtained 900L in Native color temp with White Peaking at 100 in low power - so mine exceeded lamp spec by 12%. We don't know how brite the IN76 Cine4Home.de had - because they did not make that max measurement. Turning down mine to 6500K preset with White Peaking 0 was only a 15% loss - D65 calibrated it was a 20% loss (overall). They should also have been a little higher at low power - they got 28% loss from brite lamp - while spec is 20% loss. You end up about 10% brighter than a spec SP4805 - which everyone knows that had one a calibrated 600 lumens is actually very bright - it is like a 1.5 gain screen or screen area increase for your average 400 lumen projector!

It is because of lens throws and varied lamp burn-in and QA variance as well as varied lamp lifes - that I prefer to spec design for 1.5x or 24ftL (I already did 1.3X to cover lamp life starting at 16ftL not 12ftL) to cover those getting on the dim side of all the numbers. They can use a ND2 filter if they get on the brite side of the numbers! That is more difficult to do with dimmer projectors - so then you just plan on brite lamp modes.

So rather than use specific numbers in your setup from a review - use the % drops from max measures applied to spec - then derate to account for the murphys law of averages (half of the people are dimmer than average) depending how lucky you feel. If the review site did not make that max measurement for spec compare - then the lumens number cannot stand alone and should not be relied upon. That includes a central review site with popular install calculators and reviews.....

This number in the HC3100 review thus leads to the conclusion that theirs was a brighter than average lamp - as Brilliant Color surely more than a 30L pop to reach the 1000L spec - even if optically optimized for D65. Without that info of what BC adds - you cannot apply the % to spec to get the averaged numbers and even then you would have to know -did they spec it with BC ON or OFF!

MODE: IRIS OPEN/LIGHT: HIGH- 970 lumens @ 2300:1 CR

steve68

12-07-06, 05:47 PM

Just bought the HC3000U from Amazon. I have been on the brink for about 6 months now. It will probably be towards the end of January before I get everything else and get it all hooked up. I'm sure I will have questions along the way.

Steve

tomasz

12-07-06, 10:48 PM

I will pickup my unit over the weekend, but before I do I tried to get the distance calculator from Mitsubishi side and was unable to due so. IS there any other place where I can get this calculator so I can prep my area for the PJ. Thanks.

steve68

12-07-06, 11:50 PM

I'm looking at ceiling mounts. Has anyone used the one that is advertised on ebay for the Mitsubishi HC3000? It's sold by mountdirect for $25 plus shipping ($20 ouch!).

tomasz,

Try this link.

http://www.mitsubishi-hometheater.com/pdf/projectorcalculator.zip

Steve

tomasz

12-08-06, 06:47 AM

tomasz,

Try this link.

http://www.mitsubishi-hometheater.com/pdf/projectorcalculator.zip

Steve

I can't open this file, no idea why :( :mad:

steve68

12-08-06, 08:55 AM

Try right clicking on the link and then pick "save as" or if you use firefox "save link as"

Also if you haven't already you need to download either winzip or winrar or some kind of software the uncompresses files.

Steve

PoseidonXXL

12-08-06, 11:08 AM

krasmuzik

12-08-06, 03:26 PM

That review is an excellent example of why are "experts" using the wrong charts to make the wrong point - and as always two wrongs don't make a right.

He uses the original 1930's CIE gamut chart to show that Brilliant Color does not impact the color depth - Red barely moves anywhere towards pink. On such a large gamut triangle - can you tell how far into reds it gets before you notice Red is pinkish or orangish or crimsony? I cannot - even on a large web review pic - and certainly not in a 1" magazine pic - and neither can anyone else. So CIE in 1976 updated the chart to be based not on physical measures - but based on perceptual measures. Red has the larger portion of the chart now - and you can better see the differences on the chart that compare to what you actually see with your eyes.

Of course you still have a large triangle - which gives you the false perception that a 100% error would be when Reds are moved all the way over to Green or Blue. So they also came up with a standard error measure - that says how far away from Red (or any of RGBCMYW) do you have to be for noticeable error. To better present that error it is better to zoom onto each of RGBCMYW as a target - as these error circles are actually not that large compared to all of color space.

The color of the colors is only part of the story - not shown on the CIE chart is the brightness of the color (w.r.t. White). This is where your color decoding of the video and subsequent color processing has to get the brightness levels correct. Things like red pushed video would show up here.

So to properly gage impact of BrilliantColor on colors - you need to measure color brightness, depth, and hue - on a perceptual rather than physical measure. Which is what I do on my review charts - I use the 1976 CIELUV and CIELCH colorspaces.

And if you compare the charts with BrilliantColor kicked in - you see that GBCMY are all about 10% paler and/or dimmer but this brings it into HD spec- while Reds are about 20% paler and/or dimmer (w.r.t. to white) making them worse than spec. If you turn on the BC on a colorbars pattern - I think you would find yourself agreeing with these measures - that you indeed can see the difference that BC makes. The colors are only more "brilliant" compared to what they were before - but once you adapt to the increased brightness - you realize they are paler/dimmer relative to the now brighter white!

Now if you calibrate - you are limiting the Blue and Green contribution - since BC is using the RGB spoke time to increase brightness - BC does not do as much damage. It gets brighter but without so much color damage - a reasonable compromise if you are not upgrading your screen to brighten your setup instead.

zapper

12-08-06, 11:04 PM

Has anyone hooked up a HD-DVD player to their 3000, if so was it Fantastic and better then the standard players or just mediocre..

Is their a site for calibrating the Mits 3000 for dummies. He, He.

boblinds

12-09-06, 12:25 AM

Has anyone hooked up a HD-DVD player to their 3000

Yup.

Fantastic.

Bill Shenefelt

12-09-06, 04:23 AM

BOBLINDS: For HD disk, are you using 720P or 1080i? What are you using for non HD disks? I have an HDMI cable set up but I'm having a tough time comparing the two formats against one another since it does take some considerable time to change the format view, thus an A-B comparison is tough. Someone somewhere stated one should use the format on the disk, but it is 1080P so that is not possible with the Tosh HD XA1 or the mits 3000 U.

talon95

12-09-06, 05:35 AM

While I had the 3000, I did some comparisons between SD DVD's and HD-DVD's (played by my HTPC with the X-Box 360 drive). HD-DVD was much better. Not the huge jump we got from VHS--->DVD, but a nice improvement.

boblinds

12-09-06, 11:37 AM

Bill Shenefelt

12-09-06, 11:58 AM

Thanks boblinds; I talked with a mits guy and he said the 720P was better but from what I could "remember visually" I thought the 1080i was a little better. All I could go by was an early scene from Superman Returns where Lex, on his ship, was looking at a book. I thought I could almost read the print and could read parts of it on 1080I but not quite as well on 720p.

zapper

12-09-06, 02:06 PM

Kosty

12-09-06, 02:08 PM

Bill:

I output at 1080i (HDMI) from the Toshiba, both HD and SD, and let the Mits HC3000 do the scaling to 720p. While the 720p output from the Toshiba is much improved in the 2.0 firmware, my experiments confirmed the observations of others: 1080i is still the way to go. My observations exactly.

The HC3000 has a great scaler for 1080i to translate it to 720p. When the HD DVD player just sends that pure 1080i/60 (from the 1080p24 data on the disc) the projector seems to be a bit better at converting it to 720p than the player is, even with 2.0. It seems to be a bit more accurate around the edges of objects.

The 720p is now a lot closer than it was with 1.4.

Kosty

12-09-06, 02:13 PM

Here's a review of the 3000:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/mitsubishi_HC3000.html He does not know that the Mits colorwheel is RGBRGB with an expanded red section. He assumes its a RGBCYM BC colorwheel.

Oops.

zapper

12-09-06, 11:40 PM

Rented Superman returns and it seems to my eyes that the red cape and the S symbol appears more purplish red then Red to me, has anyone notice this or is my red's off on the PJ.

Bill Shenefelt

12-10-06, 06:04 AM

That was a complaint in the reviews. It is sort of a purple red, not the traditional red. Another complatint was the "raised plastic " look of the "S"

talon95

12-10-06, 06:35 AM

That was a complaint in the reviews. It is sort of a purple red, not the traditional red. Another complatint was the "raised plastic " look of the "S"

That mostly goes away if you calibrate/tweak it like I did. I saw both of those problems when I watched Superman on the 3000 at the factory settings. Settings for each projector are probably different, but the settings I posted previously would probably get someone close (mine were on HDMI though, dunno about component).

DVD MAN

12-10-06, 10:26 AM

Hello Gents,
I connected nm Mits 3000 to my Xbox 360 @ 1080p. The scan rate dispay on the Mits says SUN66. What does that mean?

boblinds

12-10-06, 11:33 AM

it seems to my eyes that the red cape and the S symbol appears more purplish red then Red to me

It looked that way in the IMAX presentation that I saw. This Superman got a wardrobe makeover.

Skyn3t

12-10-06, 11:54 AM

Brian I Am

12-10-06, 01:27 PM

Dont think its the PJ...its the product in the case of the cape.......

DaGamePimp

12-10-06, 07:12 PM

Hello Gents,
I connected nm Mits 3000 to my Xbox 360 @ 1080p. The scan rate dispay on the Mits says SUN66. What does that mean?

From what I recall SUN66 is a Mac thing , I noticed it as well when sending 1080p but the HC3000 does not scale 1080p properly so there is no reason to use it ;) .

----- Jason

DaGamePimp

12-10-06, 07:16 PM

Hi all,

I would buy my first prj and i'm interesting on HC1100....Could you say if hc1100 is comparabale (in particular image quality) to HC3000?...or HC3000 is very much better than HC1100?

thank you :)

p.s:If it's possible could you post some images of Gears of wars with HC3000?

From what has been posted thus far they are close but the HC3000 is still slightly better . The HC3100 is slightly superior to the HC3000 (mainly due to DC3 and possibly a more optimized color-wheel) . All 3 units should be very close in over-all image quality however .

------- Jason

Skyn3t

12-10-06, 07:37 PM

From what has been posted thus far they are close but the HC3000 is still slightly better . The HC3100 is slightly superior to the HC3000 (mainly due to DC3 and possibly a more optimized color-wheel) . All 3 units should be very close in over-all image quality however .

------- Jason

Thank u DaGamePimp :)

Broccoli

12-11-06, 04:39 AM

I don't know much about front projectors but I was looking for bigger screen, my 65" was just not big enough anymore. I was reading up a bit on AVS and decided to pick up the HC3000 from BB. The projector was on sale and in addition I had a 12% off coupon. I thought as I don't know much I just get one, try everything out and if I don't like it I'll return it easy without any hassle to BB.
My 65" has already a great picture so I was expecting it to be a little worse due to the size increase to 110". Oh boy was I wrong, the picture looks awesome HD-DVD and Blu-ray really show off and I don't even have a screen yet I'm projecting on a white wall. :)
Now I wouldn't mind a little brighter picture for day time viewing and thought about returning the HC3000 and pick up a HD1000. Having the brighter picture and saving $400 wouldn't hurt.

The only thing that bothers me a bit is the noise, the projector is pretty loud if the lamp is set to standard. Are there any projectors that are very quiet or is the HC3000 about the norm?

I'm really happy I finally pick up a front projector the picture quality is way better than expected. Now all I need is more time to rewatch all my movies. :)

Bill Shenefelt

12-11-06, 08:10 AM

I would set the lamp to low if you want to have decent bulb life. I don't know what mine will last but my Tosh TV (62HM94) which is to have 8000 expected hrs on low gets about 4000 so far for the first two bulbs. With 3000 expected on the projector, maybe it will be 1500 so I sure don't want to lower that number with the price of bulbs. Unless you are in a well lit room, low should be adequate. If not, get some shades. The fan is at a lower level at low and thus the noise will subside. If it is still loud, there may be a problem with it. A brighter picture in a well lit room just will not have the blacks and look washed out. The screen reflects light be it from the projector or from the windows or lamps in the room. You cannot wash that out with higher bulb power. The 1000 was designed to be lower in cost not better.

talon95

12-11-06, 08:56 AM

Broccoli, and if you're running the 3000 with the iris closed, open it when you need more light. Also turning on Brilliantcolor helps too if it's off. Opening the iris helps more than anything though.

Josh Z

12-11-06, 10:28 AM

Rented Superman returns and it seems to my eyes that the red cape and the S symbol appears more purplish red then Red to me, has anyone notice this or is my red's off on the PJ.

That's just the way the new costume is designed.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41065000/jpg/_41065921_superman1_bodypa.jpg

DVD MAN

12-11-06, 12:12 PM

DaGamePimp

12-11-06, 02:10 PM

Thank You Jason!

I have a few questions regarding Screen Material. I have a 90" diagnolal screen in a complete light control room. My screen is a Stewart Studio Tek 1.3 gain screen.
I was recommend to purchase the Grayhawk Reference screen Material.
If I decide to go this route will there be any change in color? Is there anyone that is using the Grayhawk with there Mits? If so what type of results are you getting?

Of all the gray screens out there it is said that the Stewart is the absolute best and has no color shift , I think it is an ISF'd screen . The Stewart is also not supposed to have any sheen/sparklies which almost every other gray screen has (I have tried most except the Stewart) . With the Stewart gray you will lose some brightness and gain black level but the HC3000 should have no problem lighting up a 90" gray screen (assuming you are going to stay at the same size) . I use the HiPower from DaLite and love it but if price was not a consideration I would have the Stewart gray myself ;) .

--- Best of Luck ,
------ Jason

krasmuzik

12-11-06, 03:16 PM

That's just the way the new costume is designed.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41065000/jpg/_41065921_superman1_bodypa.jpg

Just goes to show why you only use calibration DVDs to calibrate.

Making Supermans cape a crimson blood red is just wrong! But even if you don't like it you cannot change it without making other colors wrong.

zapper

12-11-06, 08:21 PM

That's just the way the new costume is designed.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41065000/jpg/_41065921_superman1_bodypa.jpg

Thank's for your observation, otherwise would had pulled what little hairs I have Left on my head trying to tweak the PJ to show the cape red and then every other color would had been off. :eek:

Question, my Pj is connected by a DVI cable with a HDMI connector to the PJ, do you think that the connector will downgrade the Picture at all.

jojos960

12-11-06, 09:08 PM

I bought the HC3000 this past weekend from BB and plan to a DIY install on the ceiling mount. The sales rep really tried to swing me to the Sony HS60 LCD because, in his opinion, a DIY install on the HC3000 would be exceedingly difficult due to the lack of H/V shifting (he also fely like the Sony had better PQ although I disagree).

I obviously know that a LCD like the Sony or the Panny ax100 would be no problem to install because of the H/V shifting....my question to the other HC 3000 owners here - did you find the ceiling mounting on the HC3000 to be difficult?

Federico

12-11-06, 10:29 PM

DaGamePimp

12-12-06, 02:52 AM

DaGamePimp

12-12-06, 02:55 AM

Jason, I'vent seen the HC1100 but because of the modified color wheel with a bigger red section and smaller blue section, I guess the HC1100 could be better than the 3000. But maybe the the iris and the dlp chip on the HC3000 could make the difference in favor of the HC3000? Maybe someone can compare the two models?

Federico

Based on what Cine4 said I would assume the HC3000 to be slightly better over-all vs. the HC1100 but I would guess that they are still very close .

--- Jason

tomasz

12-12-06, 07:45 AM

jojos960

12-12-06, 07:50 AM

I'll be installing mine tomrow and will let you know. Also it is my first PJ.

My first PJ too Tomasz. I will be interested in hearing how the install went.

Ridebreck

12-12-06, 10:46 AM

Just ordered my HC3000 from ProjectorUSA a few minutes ago. I'm converting from a CRT projector (Marquee 8110), so the install doesn't have me concerned one bit. ;) I've got a few projects in the HT to complete first (wiring, paint, sconces, etc.), so the actual install is tentatively scheduled for Christmas weekend. I've caught hell from my CRT buddies, but I'm excited nonetheless.

nyjimbo

12-12-06, 11:08 AM

I'm currently using a Benq 6100 with it ceiling mounted 16 feet from the wall, in a light controlled room. I was going to go with the HD1000u but I see the HC3000u at Amazon for only a few hundred more.

Anyone know if the light from the HC3000 will be more or less than the BP6100 ?. I dont mind controlling the light but would like to have it as bright or better with my new projector.

Howlett

12-12-06, 12:30 PM

Hello everyone,

Long time reader first time poster. My wife picked up the HC3000 this past weekend at BB for me for Christmas. She also went ahead and got me the Optomo Gray Wolf 2 106” manual pull down screen. I am having some difficulty getting the picture to look as good as I know it can be in dark scenes. I have used Avia and gone through the basic video setup for both the HDMI and the Component inputs and I have read through this entire thread this past weekend and learned quite alot (Thanks!). Here is my setup:

Room is 12’ 9” wide x 22’ long. Ceiling is 92” high, with a section of about 4’ dipping down to 81” running across the middle of the room for the ductwork. The room is completely finished (drywalled and painted). It is not completely light controlled, there is one window at the opposite end from the screen and a hallway entrance to one side. I have built a frame and covered it with black out cloth that fits in the window so the only source of light is from the hallway. At night it is very dark. I have painted the wall with the screen and most of the walls to the side with a dark gray flat paint. The rest is white flat paint. The projector is currently sitting on the bottom shelf of a coffee table, with the lens being about 8” from the floor and about 14 and half feet from the screen. I have the zoom set about half way and I moved the table closer to get the image centered. This is the setup I have so far:

Oppo 971 DVI -> HDMI input.
X-Box 360 -> Comp input

Keystone: All 0
Overscan: 100% for both HDMI and Comp.
Gamma: Cinema for M1 and M2, Video for M3 for games.
Contrast: +10
Brightness: 0
Color Temp: Medium for all
Sharp: -2 for HDMI, 0 for Comp.
BC: OFF for all
Lamp: Low for all
Aspect: 16x9 for all

After running through Avia I had the contrast at –4 and the brightness at 2 and it looked good. I popped in the Superman Returns HD-Dvd and the daytime scenes looked good but the night scenes looked a little washed out with loss of shadow detail and the dark sky looking hazy with the stars very faint. This is were I paused it and moved the contrast higher and the brightness lower. It made the sky darker but I know it is not set up correctly. I have not messed with the user settings for Gamma or temp because I am not sure what I am doing. A ISF calibration is possible but not for a few months. Any help you could give would be very much appreciated. :)

Thanks,

James

tomasz

12-12-06, 03:28 PM

Will I'll be able to install this PJ if I dont have 16" clearence above the screen?

Kosty

12-12-06, 04:16 PM

James:

Contrast at +9 to +16 and brightness at -4 to -0 seems to be the range most people I know use with a variety of screens.

Your settings after Avia seem to be weird.

Don't know what your grey screen does. Sharpness I have set to -5 (don't need it)

Try opening and closing the iris.

Kosty

12-12-06, 04:19 PM

Will I'll be able to install this PJ if I dont have 16" clearence above the screen? Yes, its not optimum but you can use the max digital adjsutment and slighty tilt it up. At max throw any distortion would be minimal.

In practice its a bit more flexible in mounting than the manual suggests.

Josh Z

12-12-06, 05:03 PM

After running through Avia I had the contrast at –4 and the brightness at 2 and it looked good. I popped in the Superman Returns HD-Dvd and the daytime scenes looked good but the night scenes looked a little washed out with loss of shadow detail and the dark sky looking hazy with the stars very faint. This is were I paused it and moved the contrast higher and the brightness lower. It made the sky darker but I know it is not set up correctly. I have not messed with the user settings for Gamma or temp because I am not sure what I am doing.

You should not use a movie image as your reference for calibration. You should buy a real calibration disc like Avia or Digital Video Essentials and use the objective test patterns. Movies are shot with all sorts of stylistic effects. Sometimes directors want the black level pushed, sometimes they want heavy color filters. And sometimes, movies just have bad video transfers that distort the original image. They aren't a reliable source for calibration. You need test patterns.