Mitsubishi HC3000 MSRP $2,995 [Text View] - Page 2

Kosty

10-14-05, 04:34 PM

The http://www.projectorcentral.com/home.cfm review on the Mits HC3000 DLP will be delayed for about 10 days until they get a production model.

The reviews on the Panny AE900 and the Sanyo Z4 however are up. There is also a comparison review.

Good reviews for both of these LCD's but more mentions of slight flaws to the Z4 along with more capabilities to tweak. No VB seen.

Overall the Panny AE900 is stated as being competitive or superior to DLP 720p projectors. Although there is pointedly no reference to the Mits HC3000 in any of these new reviews, it does really seem to push that the AE900 LCD seems to match DLP previous strengths.

Three possibilities, 1. The Mits looked great but had some minor issues he wanted to verify before he wrote anything up. 2. The Mits looked really great but he wanted to do the LCD shootout first 3. He ran out of time and decided just as well to wait for the production HC3000 and compare the DLP to both the LCD's after giving us time to digest the LCD shootout.

kosha

10-14-05, 04:36 PM

I hope that Ekkehart has finished reviewing the Mitsu HC3000. He mentioned in the other thread that he started reviewing Pana AE900. I am assuming that he reviews one projector at a time. :)

KramerTC

10-14-05, 06:35 PM

Three possibilities, 1. The Mits looked great but had some minor issues he wanted to verify before he wrote anything up. 2. The Mits looked really great but he wanted to do the LCD shootout first 3. He ran out of time and decided just as well to wait for the production HC3000 and compare the DLP to both the LCD's after giving us time to digest the LCD shootout.

4th possibility: The HC3000 looked better than the D5 LCD projectors and he has to appease his advertising sponsors.

Kosty

10-14-05, 09:32 PM

I just created a thread on BrilliantColor in this forum.

I thought it might apply to more projectors in the future rather than just the Mitsubishi HC3000.

It also included links to a previous thread in the over 3500 forum about BrilliantColor.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591782

Is this a possible way that a 3 color RGBRGB color wheel can use the 6 color BrilliantColor algorithm?

Kosty

10-15-05, 08:36 PM

Don't these briefing slides linked below mean that the pixel size on this new .65 1280x768 WXGA+ chip in the HC3000 is 10.9um, the same as the Darkchip 3 720p .55 1280x720 720p chips? I thought the TI guys at cedia said all the new generation chips with the smaller mirror size were fabricated using the same process, which I took to mean the Darkchip 3 enhancements.

If the micromirror size is the same as the Darkchip 3, isn't it created in the same way on the same chip wafer?

Maybe it actually has darkchip enhancements but TI is calling it DC2+ so that it can continue to sell the DC3 720p chips at a premium and/or the manufacturers can still charge a premium for all their Darkchip 3 items.

Maybe TI is just not labeling this chip as darkchip 3 for marketing reasons.

Could it really be a DC3 but called a DC2? Is that why they say HD2+ ??

Or is the .65 chip better than darkchip 2 but not quite Darkchip 3?

Or have my wishful thinking fairy genes and conspiricy theory genes collided here?

romanesq

10-15-05, 09:21 PM

Seems like wishful thinking. If TI wants to manufacture a new chip with different specs from an HD2+, then why not name it something like Darkchip 3x?

Sounds like the disappointment that the Darkchip 3 chip wasn't in the Mitsu isn't over yet.
Many of us share that sentiment.

Kosty

10-16-05, 08:08 AM

I sometimes see HD2+ placed along side DarkChip 2 and Darkchip 3.

Anybody out their in AVS land have a definitive roadmap chart of the various DLP generations and the corresponding improvements? What is the proper nomenclature for each generation?

I've seen several articles like the once on DLP in Widescreen Review a few months back, but I can't remember a really definitive summary anywhere.

widseth

10-19-05, 12:28 AM

Kosty

10-19-05, 01:49 AM

http://nationalprojector.com/MITSUBISHI/HC3000/hc3000.htm

A STUNNING VISUAL EXPERIENCE
BrilliantColor Technology
With the advanced color processing method of BrilliantColor™, you will see truer images with higher brightness and vibrant color for a stunning and more realistic picture.

TrueVision™ Image Processing
When it comes to optimal video performance, TrueVision™ Image Processing offers simply the best picture with unbelievable clarity and video fidelity.

• Film ModeOptimal image de-interlacing for film-like motion video performance for a truly cinematic experience.
• Noise Reduction Built-in filters practically eliminate any image "noise" resulting in crystal-clear video.
• Edge-Adaptive Interpolation High performance video enhancement ensures that lines and edges are smooth regardless of their position on the screen.

HIGH QUALITY DETAILED REPRODUCTION
The New DDP3020 Data Processor
TheDDP3020 supports integrated 10-bit digital gamma correction and I/P conversions (which is 4 times the gradation of conventional 8-bit modes) producing smoother flesh tones and overall flowing images.

High-Speed LVDS (low-voltage differential signals)
Equipped with high-speed memory (RLDRAM) increases data transmission efficiency and high-speed LVDS drive to produce a high caliber gradation for a clean and clear image.
Resolution Support
Includes a new 0.65-type WXGA DLP device compatible with three resolution modes: 1280x720 (HD), Real XGA 1024x768, and WXGA 1280x768 (15:9). Resolution levels may also be changed, depending on the software and hardware.

10--bit I/P Conversion
Mounted with a 10-bit processing circuit, annoying screen jaggies are eliminated and overall noise is reduced for a smoother looking picture.

The above points are taken from the Mits product sheet on the HC3000.

Do these mean that they are saying that the 3020 ASIC makes a big improvement in motion artifacts and other other resolution issues like PWM.

What do you guys think?

Josh Z

10-19-05, 12:48 PM

The HC3000 was the number 5 projector in the Projector Central's "Top 20 Home Theatre Projectors" rankings a week ago, now it has been replaced by the Z3.
I don’t have a clue what that really means,

I assume that means they're withholding a ranking for the Mitsubishi until they can properly review a production sample.

I wish I knew exactly what the issue was with with their review sample that they decided it couldn't be reviewed.

Thlian

10-19-05, 02:12 PM

The HC3000 does not have the HD3 chip, but the HD2+ chip. Neither does it have Brilliant color wheel, but it has the driver for the brilliant color - figure why :confused:
The resolution is 1280 x 768, this means that you have 48 lines left when you are doing 720p, so you can adjust the picture up and down. Kinda vertical lens-shift ;)

Kosty

10-19-05, 11:58 PM

http://www.mitsubishi-hometheater.com/hc3000u.asp
http://www.mitsubishi-hometheater.com/pdf/MIT_DATAHC3000U_R3.pdf

The official Mitsubishi Home Theater website from Mitsubishi Electric-Presentation Products finally has some info on the HC3000 up. It's the same 4 page product PDF as previously posted but some additional copy points listed below. They do show on the page the images the've used before for the HC2000 in a dedicated home theater room.

Introducing a line of digital projectors designed for the cinematic connoisseur: the Mitsubishi HC3000U DLP™ projector with BrilliantColor™ technology from Texas Instruments.

It delivers everything you would expect from a Mitsubishi home theater projector - long lamp life, low fan noise, and portability - but it's also setting new standards with innovative technology. The Mitsubishi HC3000U DLP™ projector, unlike other digital projectors, is able to produce a dramatic 4000:1 contrast ratio that accentuates deeper and darker tones to create an overall stunning visual experience with vivid images and brilliant colors.

At the heart of the HC3000U is Texas Instruments’ state-of-the-art TI DarkChip2™ with the DDP3020 chip featuring BrilliantColor™. BrilliantColor™ is a new, cutting-edge technology that enables higher brightness, by boosting the midtone color levels, while providing truer, more vibrant colors for realistic and lifelike images. Be it sports, movies or television, the HC3000U can turn your home theater room into a virtual stadium, cinema, or studio.

As soon as you switch it on, you’ll see it. And then you’ll understand. This is a product of tomorrow that brings home real entertainment today.

Well, at least they at least make it sound pretty, where or where are the reviews!

Thlian

10-20-05, 02:10 AM

I`ll get mine in a couple of weeks :) I hope....

Thlian

10-20-05, 02:15 AM

I`ll get mine in a couple of weeks :) I hope....

But the sheet doesn`t say anything about it using Brilliantcolor wheel, but it uses the technology. Which means that it uses the driver for Brilliantcolor!

AlienArchbishop

10-20-05, 06:27 AM

It would be nice to know how it will stack up against the optoma H72 and the LG AN110, I believe they will all use the same DMD chip and have similar specs.

Josh Z

10-20-05, 10:57 AM

"state of the art TI DarkChip2"? Hmmm.....

rcrymes

10-20-05, 03:21 PM

The HC3000 was the number 5 projector in the Projector Central's "Top 20 Home Theatre Projectors" rankings a week ago, now it has been replaced by the Z3.
I don’t have a clue what that really means, but I’m going to get really upset about it and take it personally.

As I understand it; the rating is based upon how many people access the PJ page on the site. The AE900 and the Z3 have reviews on them and are currently in use/production, thus, they get more "hits" on the site. There is very little about the 3000 on the site and in general, thus, less hits and a lower rating. I hope this will change with the posting of the review. Let's go Evan! No pressure or anything.

Kosty

10-20-05, 08:41 PM

My local Mitsubishi dealer has word that the first two HC3000's he ordered have shipped to him. Probably will arrive on Monday!

One will be his demo model and it will be set up immediately. I will help him tweak it and will be able to watch a lot of stuff immediately to test it out.

Any recommendations on any movies to watch that might might give a sample of its capabilities? Any specific things to watch out for?

I am planning to view selections form the AVS Forum reference DVD list and a lot of HDNET and ESPN HD.

First movies probably will be Master and Commander, the Incredibles and Apollo 13.

Ximori

10-20-05, 09:06 PM

asterix

10-20-05, 10:45 PM

Monster in law
View from the top
The age of innocense

ac388

10-20-05, 11:12 PM

U571 please !!!

Kosty

10-21-05, 01:14 AM

I saw Batman begins on the IMAX in Indy when I was at cedia, so that is fresh in my brain as a dark image picture.

I also like several U 571 scenes where the blue sweaters are shaded in shadow while in the sub and then the scene shifts to the German patrol craft in bright sunlight.

Any particular scenes? and what should I watch for?

ac388

10-21-05, 02:23 AM

'Vertical limit' -- when the people get stuck inside that cave n waiting for rescue. If the contrast is insufficient, you will see everything very grey in there.

Si/TO

10-21-05, 08:48 AM

Hero is good ....Brilliant colour.
Si

Ches111

10-21-05, 11:43 AM

Hero = Great color but also = horrible movie :D

A couple of guys went to see the movie together and all felt like we had seen the movie before. It was called GROUNDHOG DAY!!! :D

Same thing over and over again....... But yes it is visually stunning.

Josh Z

10-21-05, 12:31 PM

Any recommendations on any movies to watch that might might give a sample of its capabilities? Any specific things to watch out for?

Can you look out for the motion artifacts discussed earlier in the thread? Here's the post with examples:

The classic example (first mentioned, I think, by forum member Orangelo) is LOTR - Fellowship of the Ring (chap 28 in R2, don't know about R1). It is the scene where the fellowship enters the Mines of Moria, all dark, then Gandalf lights the end of his staff. Check the faces of Legolas, Pippin, Sam, as they scroll in front of the camera, especially as they move out of the frame.

Personally, I use Dark City, at the beginning, when the leading character (played by Rupert Graves) gets out of the bathroom. Then it cuts to a POV shot scanning the bedroom, right to left. You'll get posterization on the green wall right by the lamp.

kosha

10-21-05, 02:38 PM

A favorable opinion about the projector from projrctorcentral:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/part_opinions_details.cfm?opinion_id=7442

Ekkehart, we all are waiting for your review.

BobSalita

10-21-05, 10:55 PM

A favorable opinion about the projector from projrctorcentral:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/part_opinions_details.cfm?opinion_id=7442

Ekkehart, we all are waiting for your review.

Yeabut, the other user reviewer thought it was crap.

TSO

10-22-05, 04:45 PM

Ok, here's some fodder for discussion -
I have a friend who has a friend (sounds bad right there, doesn't it?) who works in some part of the SIM2 organization. According to him, the chip used on the CX3, their top of the line 3-chipper, is officially called an "HD2+ DarkChip 3" chip.

According to the friend, the new "darkchip 3" designation refers to minor tweaks in the implementation of the chip, with major tweaks in the software that controls the chip. "DarkChip 3' is simply a newer iteration of an "HD2+" generation chip.

These designations, given by chip manufacturer Texas Instrument, have been confusing for projector manufacturers, as well as the end user.

According to the SIM2 tech, a "darkchip 2" is by definition an hd2+ chip, as is a darkchip 3. The difference between the two is not defined by the things that classify both as an "HD2+" chip, but by other criterion. The unfortunate fact is that they both (the classification and the sub-classification) have been using numbers that are close to one another, thus confusing marketing departments. If they had begun using the subclassification "Darkchip-A" or something else other than the numbers 1,2, or 3, we wouldn't have this confusion.

Therefore - could it be that the Mits uses an "hd2+ Darkchip3" chipset, as does other projectors currently coming out that has performance numbers in the same ballpark? Could it be that the marketing department was as confused as we are when they printed the pre-release advertising releases?

I am still hoping for the best - I wich someone from TI would comment on this thread, and the information my friends shared.

Mike N Ike

10-22-05, 05:23 PM

TSO - I think you may be on to something. I also recall reading on one of the forums a statement that I believe came from a TI rep. He said somrething along the lines of "they no longer had any inventory of the Darkchip2's, the new chips were being manufactured using the new DC3 process." Naturally I can find the post but I believe he was referring to the HD2+. Maybe someone else saw the post and can refer us to it.

Mike

Andy_L

10-22-05, 06:35 PM

I saw the projector last Thursday at a small showing from one of our distributers and it looked pretty darn good. Unfortunately the Mits rep was trying to leave the show and all he had was a dvd of Toy Story I??? I was considering buying one and have now finalized my decision.

Brian Corr

10-22-05, 08:38 PM

The Projector central user opinion is kinda funny. Hard to take sumone sereous who can't spell or take a minute to write a cuple desent sentenses.

Thlian

10-24-05, 02:19 PM

KOSTY!!
The Monday is almost over so where is the review??

SVS! -man

10-24-05, 09:40 PM

All of us from AvForum in Norway are waiting for the review:)

How about running "Underworld" on HC3000 to see how it handles the dynamics in dark areas? :rolleyes:

sethk

10-24-05, 11:53 PM

I was also under the impression that Darckchip 3 was a tweaked HD2+ chip, not a 'HD3' chip.
In any case I would be very interested to see what the actual measured performance of the HC3000U is compared to the D5 LCDs (AE900/Z4) and the other HD2+ DLPs like the Benq PE7700 and even a bonafide DC3 DLP like the Optoma H78DC3. If the performance pans out well compared to it's competition, I would find that more interesting than whether it's a DC3 or a DC2.
The only thing that I would wonder if it DOES happen to have a DC3, is how come Infocus, Benq and Optoma don't have new and upcoming DC3 720p projectors coming out in this price range.

Kosty

10-25-05, 12:13 AM

Shipping info has the PJ to arrive on Wed.

With setup and watching I will try to give some comments on Thursday or Friday at the latest.

Evan Powell at ProjectorCentral said that he is expecting his new sample to review by the end of the week.

DanLW

10-25-05, 09:50 AM

My short list currently consists of the AE900 and the HC3000. (Currently own a Davis 500 clone :eek: )

Probably what will clinch it is if the HC3000 performs at least as well as the 900, and has a roughly equivalent street price. There's just something about not having to worry about vertical banding, fixed panel noise, misconvergence, color non-uniformity, etc., etc...

Edit: I just look at one of the forum sponsor pages which has the HC3000 listed... their price is the same as MSRP... Unless the final price isn't posted yet because the unit is not yet in, it would seem like DLP manufacturers are listing MSRP extremely close to margin to compete with the new LCD offerings, thereby not allowing for further discounting on the dealer side of things.

Brian Corr

10-25-05, 10:12 AM

The manuf. can't control what discounts a dealer gives, as hard as they may try. I think it's just a case of it being new and the price being very good, so they are trying to get as close to list as possible, at least for a few months after introduction.

CKL

10-25-05, 10:49 AM

Hopefully to test HC3000 at the beginning of November. After veiwing the new HC910, HC3000 is possible to become the best projector below $3500.

jeffropaige

10-25-05, 11:35 AM

hey ckl do you have a review of the 910 or did you just catch a viewing of it? thanks- you must be busy reviewing all these new projectors :) jeff

shelly

10-25-05, 11:42 AM

I've reviewed all 11 pages without finding answer to this question.

Given that there is no lens shift, does the center of the lens have to line up with the top/bottom of the screen or have to be in the very center of the screen?

Thanks.

Shelly

MikeSRC

10-25-05, 11:48 AM

Given that there is no lens shift, does the center of the lens have to line up with the top/bottom of the screen or have to be in the very center of the screen?

There is an offset from the lens to the top/bottom of the screen that increases the further the projector is from the screen. If you download the pamphlet linked to a page or two back, there's a chart with offset distances.

Thlian

10-25-05, 01:07 PM

Why don`t you just give us the link instead?

shelly

10-25-05, 03:53 PM

There is an offset from the lens to the top/bottom of the screen that increases the further the projector is from the screen. If you download the pamphlet linked to a page or two back, there's a chart with offset distances.

Thanks Mike. I do have that diagram but not sure how to interpret it.

My current projector is mounted on a high shelf 13-14' from the 106" diagnal screen with the projector upside down on a rice filled pillow. The lens center is even witth the top of my screen but I can move in a few inches up or down, if necessary.

Will this do?

Shelly

MikeSRC

10-25-05, 04:00 PM

Thanks Mike. I;m not sure what you mean by "offset" but I can align the lens center even with the top of my screen. Will this do? My concern is that if the lens center has to be in the center of the screen, I cannot use the 3000.

Shelly

Ceiling mounted, the lens is not even with the top of the screen, but is a distance above it that increases with the distance the projector is from the screen. Most projectors that do not have lens shift are set up this way to allow for a somewhat normal drop to the top of the screen when the projector's mounted from a typical 8' ceiling. Looks like the offset in your case would be about 17", so that means the projector lens has to be 17" above the top of the screen without keystoning.

Why don`t you just give us the link instead?

Because I didn't post it and didn't remember exactly where it was. However, looking back one page resulted in finding it: http://www.mitsubishi-hometheater.com/pdf/MIT_DATAHC3000U_R3.pdf

jsm88

10-25-05, 04:06 PM

more importantly, why do dlp manufacturers is this range insist upon including such anemic zooms??? The only reason I am locking in on the ae700 is that I am locked in on a 10 foot throw (and can't imagine having much mor then 14 feet in the future, and only the 2x zoom lenses will get me the desirable 100" screen (to silence my rp owning neighbors)

shelly

10-25-05, 04:15 PM

[QUOTE=MikeSRC]Ceiling mounted, the lens is not even with the top of the screen, but is a distance above it that increases with the distance the projector is from the screen. Most projectors that do not have lens shift are set up this way to allow for a somewhat normal drop to the top of the screen when the projector's mounted from a typical 8' ceiling. Looks like the offset in your case would be about 17", so that means the projector lens has to be 17" above the top of the screen without keystoning.

Thanks again Mike.

The most I can do is about 4" above the top of the screen (which is mounted higher than usual--50" to the bottom of the screen from the floor). My ceiling beams would get in the way.

Goodby Mits 3000.

Shelly

Xander

10-25-05, 07:55 PM

It is a real pitty about that offset. I have a ceiling beam that runs from left to right across my theater and the projector has to be positioned no higher than about 6" below the top of the screen. Since the HC3000 resolution is 1280x768 one can probably ignore the bottom 48 pixels when using 1280x720. In addition, one could also tilt the projector ever so slightly to compensate a little more, although it would have to be very slight... Having always owned LCD projectors, I had the chance once to try an InFocus X1 in my theater and the "clean" look of a DLP image was very pleasing (despite the rainbows) in comparison to the "dirty" (FPN) LCD look of at least the previous generation of LCD panels.

Chucka

10-26-05, 09:44 AM

What is good for one person is not good for someone else. My screen top is 20 inches below the ceiling (based upon a previous NEC HT1000 projector). I have a ceiling beam that extends 7 inches down across the center of the room. Mounting this projector 3 1/2 feet behind the beam and 1 inch down works perfect in this situation. In fact most other projectors can not be made to work in this room ans even with an adjustable lens, most do not have enough lens offset per their published specifications. The Mits 3000 may be one of only a few projectors that will fit into my instgallation. I am anxious to read the final review of this projector before I make my decision to buy.

Kosty

10-26-05, 11:59 AM

For what it is worth, the Mits site has put up some dealer support materials on the HC3000U. Here are links to a jpg and a larger zipped photo as well as short copy point descriptions.

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/marketing/images/HC3000U.jpg

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/marketing/pdf/HC3000U_ProdDescription.pdf

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/marketing/zip/HC3000U.zip

HC3000U Product Descriptions
100 Words
The HC3000U Home Theater projector offers DDP3020 DLPTM TrueVisionTM
Image Processing with BrilliantColorTM. With BrilliantColorTM technology, you will
experience truer images with higher brightness and vibrant colors for realistic and
lifelike images. It also offers you the comfort of a lamp life of up to 3000 hours
(low mode) and a 2-year warranty on its parts and labor. Combined with its high
4000:1 contrast ratio, 1,000 ANSI lumens brightness, native HD720p (1280 x
768) resolution, and its low 25dBA fan noise (low mode), you will experience a
bright, quite and vivid images for an overall stunning visual home theater
experience.

Josh Z

10-26-05, 12:42 PM

What's the story on "TrueVision"? Just a marketing term?

Chucka

10-26-05, 12:44 PM

But where are the reviews? Never have I been so anxious.

Chuck

isamu

10-26-05, 02:16 PM

But where are the reviews? Never have I been so anxious.

Chuck

yeah, same here.

Kosty

10-26-05, 05:20 PM

:D The first HC3000U has arrived at my local Mits dealer. He is mounting it this evening and I will be able to view it tomorrow.

I will draft some quick impressions up as soon as I can tomorrow, and will try to have some more detailed initial observations posted up over Thursday evening.

Ches111

10-26-05, 05:26 PM

Kosty

10-27-05, 01:31 AM

Initial impressions. Wow.

First, most of my projector viewing experience for any length of time has been with a Mitsubishi HC900, and I liked that. The HC3000U is a very noticeable upgrade.

I have seen many high end DLP projectors in action as well as the last seasons LCD projectors. I have only had short looks at the Panasonic AE900 and none of the Sanyo Z4. So most of my comments will be from a guy who is familiar with what previous DLP projectors can do. I am looking forward as much as everybody else to other technical reviews.

I am by no means an expert, just an over-educated consumer. I did see a lot of the current state of the art at this years CEDIA. I have generally preferred DLP over LCD because I hate SDE and I like the deep blacks of DLP, although I have seen brighter colors with most LCDs.

I watch mostly DVD films, with more and more HDTV as time had gone on and it has become available in my local market.

I had a chance to spend a 90 minutes with a new HC3000U as it was just being set up at my local dealer after hours. It had not been calibrated, and we were playing with the user level adjustments on the fly.

First off, the combinations of settings are much more capable than the HC900. Open iris, closed iris, cinema and video modes, temp settings, brilliant color, 3 level gamma adjustments all changed the picture in unique ways. What combination was best, I dunno. But within a few minutes we were able to find a low lamp setting that showed great black levels and had dramatic reds and yellows that really were much better than I saw with the HC900. And I really liked the HC900.

In particular, the reds seemed to be much richer and were capable of really subtle shades of red. Also scenes where there was a great deal of shadow with selected bright colors looked as good as I had ever seen. For example in the destroyer attack scene in U-571, the emergency red colors of the control handles and levers and yellow signage were dramatic when the lights and explosions were flashing during the depth charge attack.

Really great range of deep blacks and bright whites could exist at the same time as bright colors. The blue sweater in shadow of the Chief in U-571 and uniform leather straps looked very good. The dirt and grime on the inside of the sub was better than I ever noticed before. The Captains cap white on top with black trim, and black leather straps with water on it was very lifelike.

We were using interlaced component 480i output out from a late model JVC progressive capable DVD player. The upscaling looked as good as I had ever seen a DVD look on a large screen. I really could not see any artifacts on the DVD scenes we looked at, and no hint of rainbow effect. I am not particularly sensitive to RBE, but I can force myself to find it on some DLP projectors. Not a trace.

1080i component HDTV input looked great off a Pace Time Warner box. Watched Amadeus and some other HDNet stuff and was impressed. I saw a lot of variation in the look of “Philadelphia” and “Amadeus’ depending on how we were changing the settings but the colors looked much more vibrant than I have seen on most any other DLP regardless of price. Lots of ways to adjust the picture to your taste.

There was a user option to turn BrilliantColor on or off. With it on, everything on the screen looked seemed brighter, not just the brighter colors, so we left it on for most of our viewing.

With the lamp on high mode, it seemed to have plenty of power to overcome ambient room lights.

Saw the DVD’s of Hot Shots I and II (the Texas Instruments DLP demo disks) and scenes from I Robot (house demo), U-571 (destroyer attack) Attack of the Clones (Obi-Wan Bobba Fett duel) Kill Bill (pine box buried alive) Master and Commander (opening attack) Return of the Kings (gates of Mordor march out) and Behind Enemy Lines (missile attack) The Day After Tommorrow (NYC wave scene) as well as a sampling of other 1080i HDTV.

It seemed to me that fast motion sequences and any movement in very dark scenes was noticeably improved over the HC900.

I could almost walk up to the screen and focus on the screen without any noticeable artifacts or seeing any evidence of pixels. Most of my viewing was at 14 feet distance (for the 100 inch screen) although I moved much closer to 8 feet and enjoyed the picture.

I really liked this as I like to sit very close to the picture for that THX widescreen look.

Up-conversion of 480i was very very good.

On several of the DLP demo disk “Hot Cuts” scenes of bright exterior shots such as people on beaches and skiers in motion, the colors looked especially vibrant in very bright background scenes.

I don’t really know what BrilliantColor brings, but overall I saw that the reds and purples were especially improved.

I am looking forward to looking at it closer after the settings are adjusted.

To summarize, I don’t know how the HC3000U looks in comparison to the latest LCD’s, but it seems to me to be by far the best value DLP projector I have ever seen.

Like I said, I am by no means an expert, but I liked what I saw.

Kosty

10-27-05, 01:41 AM

:confused: Included was a CD with the HC3000U owners manual in multiple languages.

I have the pdf but is it 3.87 MB, and only zips down to 3.4 MB. Too large to upload here. is there any way I can share this with everyone? Can someone host a link?

ac388

10-27-05, 01:57 AM

Do you have a chance to use a upconverting dvd player to 720P via HDMI ? I just wonder how the picture looks, since it is not their native resolution at 720. Thanks.

What's the retail price ?

Ximori

10-27-05, 02:10 AM

Kosty, thanks for the initial reveiw. Very impressive. How does Brilliant Color affect the natural flesh tones?

I'm glad it was worth the wait. Have you had any experience with the H78/79?

Kosty

10-27-05, 02:27 AM

I believe I saw the Optoma H78 or H79 for 15-20 minutes at cedia, I have to check my notes. I liked the projector they had in their main display area, but I remembered that it was MSRP'd at least a $1000 more than the HC3000U.

It's tough to do a comparison because I didn't see the H78 and HC3000U side by side. I did like the Optoma projector that was being showcased in their show theater.

Ches111

10-27-05, 02:38 AM

Kosty,

What interface was used for the HDTV feed!!! You mentioned 1080i but was it via HDMI/DVI/component?

Thanks for taking the time to post here.

Kosty

10-27-05, 02:41 AM

:cool: I did not have a chance to see what the output would look like from a DVD player that could output direct to 720p. I imagine it would be better than the 480i component input. I was surprised with the picture from 480i input.

I thought I read that the HC3000U has two different scalers in it one for 480i/p and the other for higher resolution input.

Fleshtones were great. In Amadeus and in Philadelphia , you could really see variety of makeups in that period piece and subtle flesh tone nuances such as ruddy faces, beard stubble and Tom Hanks looking deathly sick. The pretty people in the demo loops looked really attractive. It looked like you could also adjust flesh tones independently by use of the RGB color settings.

Noise was very quiet. The projector was directly over my head, and I could barely hear it when we had the sound off, and not at all with any sound turned on.

Also, the HC900 had some stray light seepage off the side by the air vent. The HC3000U has a dust filter over that side that completely blocks out that stray light.

Ximori

10-27-05, 02:46 AM

How about Image sharpness? thanks.

Kosty

10-27-05, 02:47 AM

The HDTV feed was only component out of a Pace box from Time Warner Cable.

That is not the most current box from our cable system, I think the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR's have a better picture.

I can only imagine that DVI/HDMI or native 720p would look better on this projector. I was really surprised that the analog component looked as good as it did.

Kosty

10-27-05, 02:56 AM

Image sharpness looked really good on the HDTV feed. Best on the travel scenes and fightclub scenes on HDNet?, really good on the HD movies and better than expected on the DVD movies.

On U-571 and Kill Bill it was hard to tell it was DVD instead of HDTV.

The DVD movies looked softer than the HDTV travel scenes, but I only noticed because I had just focused on the HD stuff before I saw the DVD scenes.

And the projector really hadn't been tweaked. The DVD's were very watchable at a very close distance, something that I like to do.

Any softness I saw looked like it came from the source material.

asterix

10-27-05, 03:35 AM

I finally heard exactly what I want to hear. No surprise. :p

isamu

10-27-05, 04:03 AM

AWESOME impressions Krosty!

How would you compare it against the Infocus 7210?

Xander

10-27-05, 04:19 AM

Thanks to Kosty's PDF manual, here is an image of the entire menu layout:

http://download.novascape.com/photos/projectors/HC3000Menu.gif

afilipi

10-27-05, 11:11 AM

All:

Kosty was so kind and sent me the PDF manual. You can download it here:

http://bobby.filipi.info/public/HC3000_manual.pdf

I have had a Mitsu XD300U for the past 2.5 years, and am ready to upgrade to a native 720p widescreen PJ. Are there any XD300/350 or XD400/450 owners on this thread deliberating a similar move?

Also, anyone living in Washington, DC who is planning to get the HC3000?

Ales

Kosty

10-27-05, 12:21 PM

These are CIE charts from cine4home.de on the HC900 and HC3000 (prelim)

I merged one together so I could see the difference between the two. The HC3000 clearly has an expanded range in the reds and purple, according to their test of the pre production unit. That tracks with what I saw.

It looks like LCD still show a slightly better gamut potential , but the HC3000 catches up.

Am I reading these things right? Look at the 3rd image HC900HC3000CIE2 first. That is the combined image.

Kosty

10-27-05, 12:25 PM

This Cie4 chart has the color descriptions placed over it.

I also included a screen shot form a Japanese site on the HC3000' gamut and color wheel.

rcrymes

10-27-05, 12:44 PM

1. Is the HC 3000 better than the AE900.

2. Is the HC 3000 better than the PLV-Z4.

3. Is the HC 3000 at least as good as the IF 7205.

Note: for the 1st two questions, I already prefer DLP.

I know these are difficult questions, but I need to find the answers before I make my decision.

Another Note: The latest news by Evan on Projector Central is that he will not even receive the PJ until Friday. I wonder how long it wil take to get a review out of him. That is certainly a bummer. Also, according to the shootout, the AE900 crushed the BenQ 7700.

CKL

10-27-05, 01:28 PM

It is good to have screen size for 2.35:1. It supposes to turn off pixels outside the area of 2.35:1 picture.

CactusCooler

10-27-05, 06:02 PM

Kosty

10-27-05, 06:34 PM

to cactuscoolar

The DVD player must be set to output to 16:9.

Does HDTV fill the screen? Is zoom set correctly?

Installation/Screensize on the HC3000U should be set to 720p/16:9 or maybe Cinemascope/2.35:1

Feature/Aspect should be on auto mode or 16:9 mode on the projector for made for widesceen,ie. anamorphic DVD's. Use Zoom 1 or Zoom 2 for non-anamorphic DVD's.

General info on widescreen issues and anamorphic info.

http://www.widescreen.org/index.shtml

CactusCooler

10-27-05, 06:59 PM

Thanks for the info Kosty. I will give those options a try. As for the placing of the projector, it is in the same exact spot as the HC100 before it. The manual zoom is on full. I don't think the zoom is the problem, because when I start up the projector, the blue screen perfectly fills the 106" screen. Its only when I fire up a dvd that the black borders appear on all sides. But let me try some of those settings tonight and I'll see if I can alleviate the problem. Thanks again.

ac388

10-27-05, 11:19 PM

When doing 720P, does it mean the signal will be received in 1280x720, n then upconvert to 1280x768 to match the native resolution of the projector. Or the unit will automatically switch between 1280x720 n 1280x768 as its native resolution ???

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Kosty

10-28-05, 12:06 AM

ac388

10-28-05, 12:28 AM

Page 39 of the PDF manual linked above shows all the input modes.

All video inputs look like they map directly to 1280x720. No upconversion of 720p to 768p.

1280 x720p is the native resolution for all video inputs (non computer).

Computer inputs can map to 1280x768 1228x768 1024x768 960x768

Thanks. I did read that page which is what confused me. Can a projector has variable native resolution ? If it can, why other brand do not copy, since it will avoid all kind of convertion which lead to picture quality loss.

To my understanding, when the signal can map, it does not mean no convertion.

Jarno

10-28-05, 03:00 AM

Manual page 19 reads:

"ZOOM1 and ZOOM2 work on 480p and 576p images only. They don’t work on 480i and 576i images."

This seems strange as the unit can STRETCH the interlaced images.

This means that letterboxed 4:3 video needs an external de-interlacer for zoom to work for them. DVDs are fine with progressive output, but my digital TV receiver outputs only interlaced signals :(

Can anyone verify if the ZOOM modes indeed do not work for interlaced inputs?

Jarno

Kosty

10-28-05, 03:10 AM

The HC3000U uses a new Texas Instruments DLP DMD chip that is designed to be used for both business and home theater use.

http://www.dlp.com/about_dlp/about_dlp_press_release.asp?id=1261

TI wants to make a lot of these chips so they can reduce the production costs.

Having them capable for business and home theater use increases the number that can be sold to their vendors.

Kosty

10-28-05, 03:24 AM

Jarno

I will try a non-anamorphic DVD on a 480i non-progressive DVD player tomorrow to see if the zoom 1 and zoom 2 functions work.

You might one of the few people who care since progressive DVD players are so cheap, but yesterday we were running 480i out of a low end DVD player and let the HC3000U do the conversion work straight to 720p.

If the HC3000U can't zoom the 480i signal, it couldn't zoom those old non-amamorphic DVD's in 480i mode.

That would mean I would have to switch my player to 480p and have the player convert 480i to 480p and then the HC3000U convert the 480p to 720p on those old DVDs.

It obviously would bug you as well of you had to convert to new equipment.

{Godlightsoul}

10-28-05, 10:42 AM

Jarno

10-28-05, 11:42 AM

so this machine might not be a good choice for HTPC?

On the contrary. The Native panel resolution of 1280x768 (WXGA) is more commonly supported by computers than the 720p. Also 4:3 1024x768 (XGA) resolution is supported by virtually all computers, so you should have no problems!

That's my reading of the manual and Mitsubishi marketing message anyway,

Jarno

byancey

10-28-05, 01:41 PM

On the contrary. The Native panel resolution of 1280x768 (WXGA) is more commonly supported by computers than the 720p. Also 4:3 1024x768 (XGA) resolution is supported by virtually all computers, so you should have no problems!

That's my reading of the manual and Mitsubishi marketing message anyway,

Jarno

Agreed. One of the reasons I'm watching the HC3000 so closely is that it seems uniquely suited for use with an HTPC. There should be no need to do a bunch of fiddling with PowerStrip and custom resolutions to get a true 1:1 pixel mapping between the PC output and the physical resolution of the projector. Granted, you're going to have small black bars (24 pixels top and bottom) even for true 16:9 content, but nothing a little masking can't handle.

--
Bryce

DanLW

10-28-05, 01:47 PM

How close can you get to the screen before you start to see the pixel matrix?

CactusCooler

10-28-05, 02:16 PM

How close can you get to the screen before you start to see the pixel matrix?

I sit about 8 ft from a 106" screen and I can hardly see the pixels. At 10-12 ft, you probably won't see them at all.

GrenZeiram

10-28-05, 03:10 PM

Hello all,
Long time lurker, first time poster!

With the HC3000U, can you project 4:3 material (movies/TV broadcast/videogames) at the full 1024 x 768 resolution or does it just project in the native 16:9 with black bars on the sides?

I couldn't tell from the pdf manual that is online.

Thanks in advance for any information!

-Gren

Greg Matty

10-28-05, 03:47 PM

I just upgraded from an HC100 to an HC3000, and had a question. Being a novice with projectors (and this being my first hd projector) this might be a no-brainer question. When playing widescreen dvd's on the HC100, I was able to set the projector so that the picture filled the entire projection area (106" diag) without any stretching and only minor black borders on the top and bottom, however, on the HC3000, no matter how I set the aspect ratio and resolution, I can't get the picture to fill the entire area (other than having it on stretch, but that doesn't look as good). The best I can get is a picture with roughly a foot of black border around all edges (using a 106" screen). Does this have to do with resolution scaling? Or do I have a wrong setting somewhere? And if it is resolution mismatching, is there a quick fix so that I can get the picture to fill the entire projection area? Any help would be much appreciated.

Any chance you are watching a DVD that is not enhanced for 16:9 projectors? Many older ones are not. If I do that with my X-1 while it is set to 16:9 mode and my DVD player is in 16:9 mode, I get exactly what you described; a smaller picture with borders on all sides. Make sure you are watching a DVD that is anamorphic, aka optimized for 16:9, and make sure the PJ is in 16:9 mode. It sounds like your PJ is 16:9 only so that probably doesn't apply. Also make sure your DVD player is set to 16:9 playback.

Maybe this is it?

Greg

Josh Z

10-28-05, 04:05 PM

With the HC3000U, can you project 4:3 material (movies/TV broadcast/videogames) at the full 1024 x 768 resolution or does it just project in the native 16:9 with black bars on the sides?

I couldn't tell from the pdf manual that is online.

As I understand it, only the computer input will resolve at 1024x768. Video inputs are projected at 1280x720, so your 4:3 movie content would have black bars on the sides.

GrenZeiram

10-28-05, 04:17 PM

As I understand it, only the computer input will resolve at 1024x768. Video inputs are projected at 1280x720, so your 4:3 movie content would have black bars on the sides.

Thank you Josh, that's what I was thinking as well, but wasn't sure.

Take care,
-Gren

Zipplemeyer

10-28-05, 04:41 PM

How steep is the image offset? Are low basement ceilings out with this projector?

Moe

Josh Z

10-28-05, 04:50 PM

Thank you Josh, that's what I was thinking as well, but wasn't sure.

I'm just basing that on previous discussion. I don't have the projector and can't confirm.

CactusCooler

10-28-05, 04:57 PM

Any chance you are watching a DVD that is not enhanced for 16:9 projectors? Many older ones are not. If I do that with my X-1 while it is set to 16:9 mode and my DVD player is in 16:9 mode, I get exactly what you described; a smaller picture with borders on all sides. Make sure you are watching a DVD that is anamorphic, aka optimized for 16:9, and make sure the PJ is in 16:9 mode. It sounds like your PJ is 16:9 only so that probably doesn't apply. Also make sure your DVD player is set to 16:9 playback.

Maybe this is it?

Greg

Yep, the dvd player wasn't set for 16:9 playback, it was set to 4:3. I wasn't even aware the dvd player had the option to change to 16:9. As soon as I changed it, I was able to achieve full screen. Thanks! And thanks to Kosty who also gave me some needed tips :)

afilipi

10-28-05, 06:34 PM

CactusCooler: How does the HC3000 compare to the HC100? Do you see any obvious improvement in blacks, contrast, colors, etc. or is the difference more subtle, so that you can really only tell when they are side by side?

Also, could you comment on the noise of the HC3000? I currently have the XD300U (rated at 30 dBA), and find its noise a bit irritating in quiet movie parts.

Thanks,
Ales

crackazz

10-28-05, 07:24 PM

just seen this, 3w .mitsubishi-evs.de/en/presse_miteilungen_detail.asp?id=92

did you guys get one with the projector?

{Godlightsoul}

10-28-05, 10:16 PM

just seen this, 3w.mitsubishi-evs.de/en/presse_miteilungen_detail.asp?id=92

did you guys get one with the projector?

linked (mitsubishi-evs.de/en/presse_miteilungen_detail.asp?id=92)
wonder if the free bulb applies to US market???

ac388

10-28-05, 11:13 PM

Wonder how does it compare with Sharp Z2000, since I have a chance to get a new one cheap.

Kosty

10-29-05, 02:21 AM

To Goodlightsoul

I know that my local dealer is offering the free bulb, but that might just be his deal, instead of a Mitsubishi US offer.

CKL

10-29-05, 03:14 AM

Wonder how does it compare with Sharp Z2000, since I have a chance to get a new one cheap.

Forget Z2000. Your choice is either HS60 or HC3000. I will receive one HC3000 next week. There will be a demo show on 26 Nov organised by HK Mitsubishi.

Ximori

10-29-05, 12:06 PM

CKL, looking forward to that review. Any chance of getting a H72 later?

ac388

10-29-05, 06:51 PM

Forget Z2000. Your choice is either HS60 or HC3000. I will receive one HC3000 next week. There will be a demo show on 26 Nov organised by HK Mitsubishi.

Thanks for the info n I'll stay put for the moment. Hope you will give me some headstart on the HC3000 after you have seen it, since the HS60 will arrive any moment, n I don't want to get the wrong one.

Will the HC3000 be more expensive than HS60 ?

Kosty

10-30-05, 01:35 AM

A new product description is up on the German Mitsubishi Site

http://www.mitsubishi-evs.de/en/produkte_detail.asp?cat=1&id=337

The ultimate home cinema experience in HD. The new standard for everyone who dreams of high-resolution pictures in greater depth: the Mitsubishi HC3000. Compatible with HDTV (High Definition Television) and equipped with the new Dark Chip 2™ from Texas Instruments. Due to BrilliantColor™ technology you can experience your movies in an excellent color reproduction, with deeper black levels and images that come to life in best dimensions. Together with 4000:1 contrast and 1000 ANSI lumens, these qualities add up to give you strikingly sharp and vibrant pictures true to every detail.

At the same time, the HC3000 is surprisingly flexible. Its Digital Keystone Correction eliminates horizontal and vertical distortion. And since format makes a difference in home cinema, you have four options to choose from. The only point on which the HC3000 is unwilling to compromise is its trusted Mitsubishi quality: the lamps, for example, have a service life of up to 3000 hours. And you´ll enjoy every minute.

The BrilliantColor™ technology boosts the luminance of the complementary colors and increases the color-intensity of the whole spectrum. The contrast ratio of black-, middle- and white-leveled images can be adjusted individually and separately.

The "HD ready" logo is being introduces as a quality sign for the differentiation of display equipment, capable of processing and displaying high definition signals, and is awarded on the basis of the minimum functionality requirements detailed in the related conditions document.

It still doesn't tell me what the BrilliantColor is doing. ;)

{Godlightsoul}

10-30-05, 01:54 AM

.......It still doesn't tell me what the BrilliantColor is doing. ;)
BrillianMarketing???

I'm also interested in knowing how it does what it does.

CKL

10-30-05, 09:51 AM

Thanks for the info n I'll stay put for the moment. Hope you will give me some headstart on the HC3000 after you have seen it, since the HS60 will arrive any moment, n I don't want to get the wrong one.

Will the HC3000 be more expensive than HS60 ?

The MSRP of both projectors should be the same. I don't know the discount for the street price of HC3000.

CKL

10-30-05, 09:53 AM

CKL, looking forward to that review. Any chance of getting a H72 later?

I have no idea if the local optoma dealer will import H72 or not. Just wait and see.

Kosty

10-30-05, 03:00 PM

To Godlightsoul

:eek: I think that there is marketing hype because the HC3000 doesn't have a RGBCMY colorwheel. But, I do think the new 3020 ASIC is doing something good.

What I meant was there is a menu option on the HC3000 to turn BrilliantColor on or off. When it is turned on, the entire image seems to be clearer and brighter. But the 3020 processor seems to be making the picture better, with or without the BC toggle turned on.

With the BC toggle turned on, it seems that deep black levels can be maintained at the same time as brighter whites and bright reds and yellows (all on the screen at the same time).

What I don't understand is what the BrilliantColor option setting is really doing, since the HC3000 doesn't have a RBGCMY color wheel.

BC on or off, the HC3000 is still using the same R+GBR+GB color wheel and the same 3020 chip. It seems that the BC option turns on some extra color processing or greyscale algorithm.

I like it, but I have really no idea what technically is going on. The only thing I can think of is that the 10 level greyscale the 3020 chip is capable of, and the faster LVDS memory on the new .65 WXGA chip is giving the picture an added boost. Either that or the color is being processed as RGBCMY but being displayed by the RGB color wheel. I don't know how that is possible.

I really want to see those technical reviews soon to explain what I am seeing!

Jarno

10-30-05, 03:43 PM

about BrilliantColor; just a guess...

Maybe faster processing allows faster control and better sync between the DMD and the color wheel, allowing to better utilize any two consecutive color segments in the wheel => better luminance for complementary colors?

Jarno

crackazz

10-30-05, 03:53 PM

when will we start seeing some reviews of this pj? has anyone promised a comparison with the latest LCD D5 projectors?

looking to see if its worth me waiting to get one over a Z4 :) :)

ksharp4

10-31-05, 11:52 AM

Seems like a few online dealers have this projector listed for sale so I am surprised there is not more discussion on this projector. I found the price a bit of a surprise as well and have put my projector purchase on hold until more is known about this unit.

Brian Corr

10-31-05, 01:03 PM

I'm going to training on Tuesday for this projector so I'll get to see it for the first time then. The BenQ 8720 is also set up there so I'll be able to compare it to a dark chip 3 projector.
I'm already planning on replacing my BenQ 7700 with it. I gotta think the darkchip 2 is going to have a better picture than just the HD2+ in the BenQ. (keeping my fingers crossed)

thaxx

10-31-05, 08:47 PM

Talked to a salesman from one of the forums sponsors today. He said they had a shootout side by side with the panny 900 vs. BenQ 7700. I told him I had read the projector central review and found it hard to believe. He told me, it wasn't even close, the panny 900 blew away the BenQ. I was very surprised. Then he told me the Mitsu HC3000 was even better still than the panny 900. He said they already have a few of the Mitu's in stock.

sethk

10-31-05, 09:36 PM

Is the slight dimness at the center of the pixel that is common to most DLPs visible (at very close distances) on the HC3000? If you pause the dvd on a very dark scene with at least one bright spot on it, and you walk up to the screen, how noticeable is the pixel crawl (moving noise) in the dark spots?
Thanks for the early impressions, guys!

nataraj

10-31-05, 09:47 PM

thaxx

10-31-05, 10:02 PM

I wonder whether the new PJs "blowing away" old ... has something to do with the desirability of old PJs being replaced with new from the perspective of the retailers ...
That's possible, but the sponsor I talked to, sells all three of those projectors. And the panny 900 isn't a old PJ

ac388

10-31-05, 10:08 PM

Just curious how would the HC3000 match up with the Sony HS60, if you guys have seen it.

MikeSRC

10-31-05, 10:22 PM

As someone who owns both the MT700 (7700 clone) and the AE900, I would be wary of anyone who says the 900 blows the 7700 away. I've probably seen both for more hours than anyone I've seen review them. Bottom line is that they are actually very close in performance (once properly calibrated) and both have their good points and bad. As a long time DLP fan, it's not easy for me to even say that the 900 is equal to the 7700, but it is. However, based on what I've seen briefly, I expect the HC3000 to be a step better than either of them, much as the DC3 DLP projectors are.

smyth22

11-01-05, 12:27 AM

Mike: does it look like you will be selling the 3000? If so have do you know if the free bulb offer will be available here?

Thanks
Peter

DIY Guy

11-01-05, 09:23 AM

A favor to ask our lucky owners. Would someone measure the outer diameter of the lens in millimeters.

Many thanks,

Kosty

11-01-05, 02:29 PM

:cool: Played some additional DVD scenes on the HC3000U.

Played several scenes from Fellowship of the Ring (opening battle, mines of Moria, tomb fight with cave troll), Starship Troopers (most of the space battle scenes) The Incredibles (run dash run, final RV fly in and ending robot battle scene) Watched a lot of Finding Nemo, Dark City, and The Battle of Britain as well as a bunch of trailers.

To my non-expert eye, this is looking better and better the more we play with it. The amount of adjustment options are generous and you can tweak the image to create a more vibrant look or more of a true cinematic look to fit your own tastes. We have also experimented with a grey screen.

I was particularly impressed with the dim scenes in Dark City where the lighting is really dark except for pools of lights from streetlamps or storefront lighting. Even on a ISF calibrated rear projection CRT, I have never quite seen the colors in the pools of light done so well. The memory flashback scenes were also quite crisp when they blasted out of the dark subterranean sets. Truly cinematic with a very creepy feel.

One of my favorite movies was last years DVD release of a 1969 war epic called The Battle of Britain. Although when I walked right up to the screen I could see the film grain, (an issue I think with the film transfer to DVD) the aerial battles scenes were epic in scope and nicely rendered. The bright blue sky and clouds and the RAF fighter plane combat camouflage paint schemes, the German fighters red noses and the interior cockpit shots looked highly realistic and were details I never noticed before. The dogfight melee scenes seemed intense. One final battle scene turns on a symphonic dance of death musical score as fighter pilots and bomber crews are wounded and aircraft are destroyed. I have never seen the flesh tones of the pilots faces, the oil spewing out and bubbling over a pilot’s canopy, the blood from wounds and the explosions look so convincing. Even though I had seen that movie dozens of time, I never saw it that intensely.

Finding Nemo just looked excellent. The deep black stripes of the fish really contrasted with all of the bright colors of the fish in the tank. The exterior scene of the pelicans and the fish on wooden boardwalk, looked like faded brown wood along with the brightly colored fish and birds. Other scenes were vibrant and intense. The images really popped.

The scenes from The Incredibles didn’t seem quite as saturated and vibrant as I have seen on some other rear projectors although that may have been a combination of the settings and screen we were using. All of the colors seemed really well balanced though.

The space battle scenes in Starship Troopers, though really looked great. This is one of the things that I think DLP can usually do better than LCD, so my expectations were high. I know this was computer generated CG , but the HC3000 showed the film the best I had ever seen it . When I have seen this on most displays, the explosions in the space battles seemed too garish and cartoon like. There are several scenes of inky black space with white-blue bug plasma burst arching across the scenes with bright grey metal starships exploding into red-yellow fireballs. The dark blacks of space, the white flashes and bright yellows and reds are really tough to show at the same time. The HC3000 did this better than any other projector I had seen. On the HC3000 it look like the best CG from Star Wars. Small details like debris floating out of the destroyed ship sections could be seen. For a science fiction space warfare geek like me it was very cool.

I saw several underground movement and battle scenes with torches in LOTR and all of the space battle scenes in Starship Troopers without a bit of rainbow effect. Even in places that are known to be possible RBE areas I didn’t see any trace.

I like SF, fantasy, and war genre action movies so these are great tests for me.

Overall, The HC3000 is beating my expectations. It’s great for the price point. I still don’t know how it compares to the latest LCD’s in performance, but they are going to be hard pressed to beat this for my viewing habits of these kind of movies and HDTV.

Note: Link to my previous comments - scroll down for some Q & A about image sharpness and inputs used
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6425292&&#post6425292

MikeSRC

11-01-05, 02:48 PM

Do you see any light spill either above or below the image (like you do with many 4:3 chip projectors when projecting a 16:9 image)? Since there's 48 lines of vertical resolution not used, can you tell if the image is centered in the chip, at the top, or at the bottom?

Kosty

11-01-05, 02:58 PM

I didn't see any light spill and I looked for it. Around the edges of the image it was coal black. I am not absolutely sure if the mat border of the screen was trapping any, but it almost seemed to me that the pixels were turned off in the top and bottom black bars. If they weren't the projector was creating an intense constant black throughout the scene changes.

There was a capability to shift the image up or down and the black remained constant, I saw it demonstrated but I didn't watch anything except when the black bars were equal top and bottom.

MikeSRC

11-01-05, 03:54 PM

Thanks, I wonder if the iris adjusts to eliminate light spill in its open position. In any event, that's a good sign.

jd_greene

11-01-05, 04:07 PM

QUOTE=DIY Guy]A favor to ask our lucky owners. Would someone measure the outer diameter of the lens in millimeters.

Many thanks,[/QUOTE]

87.3125 millimeters

Thx JD

DIY Guy

11-01-05, 04:11 PM

Thanks JD!

Vlad_Dracule

11-01-05, 04:34 PM

So with this Mitsubishi 3000, do ya think that they will come out with a twin turbo GT version? Will it be all wheel drive? Are they also releaseing a VR-4? And most importatnly does it come in red? :D

See the above post in reference to this PJ as the Mitsu 3000 :D

As the proud owner of a Black '92 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4........ I WISH! :D

This will very likely be my next PJ. I love my Mitsu 3000s!

rtuimauga

11-01-05, 05:03 PM

Where can I pick one up at ? Best price ?

Andy_L

11-01-05, 05:16 PM

Where can I pick one up at ? Best price ?

Right here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=500886)

rtuimauga

11-01-05, 05:25 PM

What, I can't even ask where to buy one from ? I tried looking on the MITS site for dealers in my area and nothing. But thanks for your input anyway.

Andy_L

11-01-05, 05:35 PM

What, I can't even ask where to buy one from ? I tried looking on the MITS site for dealers in my area and nothing. But thanks for your input anyway.

Look at the top of this web page. There are several company icons under the words "AVS Forum Alliance Members". I found the projector at "Projector People". If you were to keep looking you may find more. Good luck.

Andy_L

11-01-05, 05:47 PM

I know this almost seems unimportant, but to anyone that already has this projector set up, what are you using for a ceiling mount?

Paul_PDX

11-01-05, 05:48 PM

Look at the top of this web page. There are several company icons under the words "AVS Forum Alliance Members". I found the projector at "Projector People". If you were to keep looking you may find more. Good luck.

Also check Mitsubishi -- these are the official dealers

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/wheretobuy_dealerlocator.asp

nachin

11-01-05, 06:06 PM

Kosty,

It´s possible to adjust Temp Colour (Red, Green and Blue, Contrast and Brigthness) with the Briiliant Colour in ON position?

Nacho.

thaxx

11-01-05, 06:22 PM

Kosty,
Since you have seen both the Optoma 78 and the Mitsubishi 3000, how would you compare the light output of each? And what size screen are you using?

jkirk

11-01-05, 06:23 PM

Thanks for the link. I went to the web site and couldn't read all of the numbers. For clarification, does the pj have vertical lens shift (which their diagram seems to suggest) and if so, can the projector be placed at the top of the screen w/out keystoning?
thnx,

John

Kosty

11-01-05, 07:01 PM

BrilliantColor is a seperate ON/OFF menu option. Other menu options seem to work without limit if BrilliantColor is on.

100 or 102 inch screen was viewed.

I thought the H78, which I saw for only a few minutes looked pretty bright. I have not seen both side by side. The HC3000U more than meets my brightness requirements, but I have looked at it far more than the H78.

My guess, is that the HC3000 seems brighter, but could be unreliable, because I have just been recently watching it.

Those technical reviews we have been waiting for should have the answer on those non-subjective areas. My impressions were meant to give my subjective impressions only. THe HC3000 has done everything I have asked it to do , so far.

rtuimauga

11-01-05, 07:42 PM

Paul-PDX: Thanks for the link. It listed a whole 2 dealers between KS and MO. Iguess it's what I get for living in BFE ha ?

Brian Corr

11-01-05, 09:05 PM

I just got back from Mits. training where they reviewed their 4 HT projectors and had the 3000 up for demo. Unfortunately, it was in an all white room on an 80" screen so I really couldn't get a good feel for it. I really wanted to see how the shadow detail was and the room just wasn't ideal for it. It looked very good for a $3k projector but I really want to know how the black levels are. Everything else looked good and at least as good as the BenQ 7700, which I own and am familiar with.

I noticed no light spill, and couldn't see any pixel structure until I got within 3'.
The vertical adjustment seemed to work fine, without requiring any keystone that I could tell.
Anyway, my dist. had only gotten in the 1 unit for the class but are expecting more tomorrow, 1 of which has my name on it. If it shows up, I'll bring it home and put it up against my BenQ 7700 asap.

Couple interesting tidbits. The powerpoint slide said it was 1024x768. I pointed that out and the Mits guy said oops. It also appeared that his pictures demo'ing the brilliant color feature were reversed, because the stills labeled as "off" clearly looked better than the ones labeled as "on". He also said he knows every dealer and dist. who sells his projectors (he's the head of HT projector sales in the US for Mits) and would drop anyone selling on the internet who wasn't supposed to be or who were advertising below their MAP. They do not want a situation like the 7700 where there dealers can't make a decent margin (no, $50 isn't a decent margin) ;) Doesn't mean good deals won't be had, but it may not be as evident.
Also, not sure I've seen this so thought I'd mention it. The warranty is for 2 years and is a "send it in for repair" type. He did say they shoot for a 72 hour turn around at their repair depots. But if something happens the first 30 days, it is an overnight exchange. The bulb has a 90 day warranty.

isamu

11-01-05, 09:16 PM

{Godlightsoul}

11-01-05, 09:43 PM

any comment on whether the free bulb is standard for the American market?

thaxx

11-01-05, 10:10 PM

The thing I'm kind of surprised about is that the MSRP is also the street price.

Brian Corr

11-01-05, 10:25 PM

I forgot to ask about the free bulb mentioned here, but he never brought it up as an offer. I'm pretty sure he would have mentioned it if it were true as his goal was to get those in attendance to buy his stuff.

Isamu, for me, I'd take a dlp over an lcd almost every time, that's just my preference. My first projector was an lcd and the 2nd and 3rd were dlp's. I haven't seen the 900 but I just don't think it's as good as the specs make it seem. (I've installed Panny 500's, 700's, Sony HS50's, 51's, etc so I have experience with lcd's) As MikeSRC stated, it's pretty equal to the BenQ 7700 with regards to picture quality. Now, feature wise, the 900 is killer with the very flexible lense and other options. But if pic quality is most important, I think the mits 3000 will have the edge, unless you are susceptible to RBE or dlp's in general.
My current logic is that the 3000 should be better than the BenQ 7700 and I figure the 7700 is pretty close to the 900, so the 3000 should be best. hehe
Take my advice for what it cost you though, there are those that would take an lcd every day of the week over a dlp.

Greg Matty

11-01-05, 10:49 PM

The thing I'm kind of surprised about is that the MSRP is also the street price.

Is this really the case? I was hoping with an MSRP or $2,995 that it would street for around $2,200 or so. If that is the case, I may have to go LCD or maybe the new Optoma as $2,200 or thereabouts is my upper limit.

Greg

upnorth

11-02-05, 12:26 AM

Hey all...currently a LCD PJTX100 pj owner , but looking to convert!!! This new MITS holds the promise of colors like that of an LCD and with the contrast of an DLD. This sounds to good to be true, what is the catch..I wonder??? Is this new pj as good or equal to the Optoma 78 or BenQ7700, and is there really that much of a difference, in pic quality??

Does anyone have have screen shots to post yet? Are there any real big issues noticed to date?

I have a 96" D GOO digital grey sreen, will this pj be bright enough for it? Will it help the contrast level (black level)or hurt it?

Xander

11-02-05, 12:32 AM

Brian Corr wrote:The vertical adjustment seemed to work fine, without requiring any keystone that I could tell.Thanks for the feedback. I wonder whether you coulld ellaborate a bit more on this point? I assume that this is shifting the 720 pixel high image up or down within the 768 vertical pixel height and does not mean shifting the overall 768 pixel high projection up or down (if you know what I mean)? In other words, it does not work like vertical lens shift and there is no easy way to overcome the steep vertical offset required by this projector? TIA

Kosty

11-02-05, 01:31 AM

This new MITS holds the promise of colors like that of an LCD and with the contrast of an DLD. This sounds to good to be true, what is the catch..I wonder??? I think the street price of the AE900 is going to be a little cheaper than the HC3000. But the HC3000 is the first projector I have seen under $3500 that does what it does.

In my humble opinion the HC3000 is a breakthrough product because of its price and the fact that it does the color vibrancy of a LCD (not quite the entire gamut but better than most DLP's have done before) and does the things that expensive DLPs have done before at a lower price point.

Damn....I desperately want to know which to get between the Mits and the Panny AE900. Brian and Kosty if you were in my shoes which one would you get? Especially having a light controlled room?
In a light controlled room , I think the HC3000 would have the edge. It will probably be a little more expensive in its street price than the AE900, but I think that it would be worth it for mostly cinema use and HDTV. I am really pleased with the adjustment options on the HC3000. I think you can tweak it to make the image work in any situation. I don't know how the vertical lense shift and offset distance would work in your situation when you mount it. Some people have expressed concern abount mounting considerations. The AE900 is really optimized for bookshelf mounting and the HC3000 is optimized for ceiling mounting. Both probably work well for tabletop mounting.

There is a new cine4home.de review of the AE900 up and although they are generally very favorable, one of the issues they mention is that out of 3 production machines they received, one or two had noticable Vertical Banding Effect. They even say the effect is more distracting than their photo shows. They therefore state that buying one is a bit of a lottery. I don't like gambling on expensive purchases. Dead LCD pixels, dirt on the optical path, VBE, panel micro alignment and quality control are all LCD issues that concern me.

DLP rainbow effect is the only remaing DLP issue and I don't think that will be a issue with the HC3000 for most people. If you are not overtly sensitive to RBE, which I think is a non-issue for me, and are willing to pay a little more for the HC3000U, I think the evidences leans toward the HC3000U. :) If price is an issue and if the AE900 is good enough for you, then pull the trigger on the AE900. ;)

I would wait until the projectorcentral.com and cine4home.de reviews are up on the web, hopefully this week

Kosty

11-02-05, 01:42 AM

I have a 96" D GOO digital grey sreen, will this pj be bright enough for it? Will it help the contrast level (black level)or hurt it? I saw it on a 100 inch+ grey screen and the projector was plenty bright. I'm not sure how maxed out the options were, but the lamp was in low mode.

I don't really know if it helped the contrast level or not. The image was a little bit brighter on the white screen, but the blacks were very deep and the contrast was great. On the grey screen I liked the contrast.

On the grey screen the look was slightly more film like and cinematic. You should be fine with the 96 inch screen, anything much larger than 105, I would be careful.

Vlad_Dracule

11-02-05, 10:00 AM

Yikes..... long throw on this one. I was really liking this PJ until I checked the throw. Currently my Z2 sits on the table in front of my seating area (about 8' throw range) and I can get a nice 80" diagonal image. Also I'm not sure if the lens offset will work with my setup either. Are there any graphical examples of the offset on this PJ?

DIY Guy

11-02-05, 10:18 AM

Vlad,

This from the manual.

Kosty

11-02-05, 10:37 AM

Vlad

from projecter central:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HC3000-projection-calculator-pro.htm

andy_puiu

11-02-05, 10:43 AM

I wouldn't call that a long throw. That seems pretty typical to me.
100" diagonal at 12 - 14.5 feet, 16.5" vertical offset

Personally, I would like a longer throw.

Vlad_Dracule

11-02-05, 11:34 AM

I guess I should have said long throw compared to my Z2 :D.

Thanks DIY Guy thats what I was looking for. So it looks like the bottom of the image will be slightly above the center of the lens? That might actually work out quite well for my room (slanted roof).

Kosty - Yeah I had already used that to determine the throw. Where my Z2 can have an 80" image the HC3000 can only do 65". However with the longer throw I can probably mount it on the shelf behind my seating area and get a similar screen size.

kosha

11-02-05, 02:18 PM

You should be fine with the 96 inch screen, anything much larger than 105, I would be careful.
Bummer. I was thinking of going 133 diagonal (I don't have problem with pj offset).
Maybe I should listen to TzungILin and wait for Optoma H72 to arrive. I wonder whether Optoma's menu options are as generous as Mitsu. I never liked Optoma's custom saving options and I don't like to send the projector back to Optoma for firmware upgrades.

ksharp4

11-02-05, 05:46 PM

Are these projectors getting shipped now or just a few going out to select people? I pre-ordered one so I am wondering how long I will have to wait. Thanks for all of the feedback by the way.

Brian Corr

11-02-05, 07:41 PM

They started shipping to dist. last week so they should start showing up soon.

SHKnapp

11-02-05, 08:18 PM

Sorry if this is a newbie question, but I'm trying to figure out if this projector will work for me. I have an offset question. I have read the manual and used all the projector calculators, but I'm still confused about something. I was hoping to use this projector with a 120" screen. That means somewhere around 20" of offset. In a room with an 8' ceiling I'll almost be placing the screen on the floor. Can I use the +-38 Deg Digital Lens Shift that the spec sheet talks about to minimize the offset? If so, how much will it be reduced?
thanks

thaxx

11-02-05, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Kosty
You should be fine with the 96 inch screen, anything much larger than 105, I would be careful.

Bummer. I was thinking of going 133 diagonal (I don't have problem with pj offset).
Maybe I should listen to TzungILin and wait for Optoma H72 to arrive. I wonder whether Optoma's menu options are as generous as Mitsu. I never liked Optoma's custom saving options and I don't like to send the projector back to Optoma for firmware upgrades.
I think He was talking about a grey screen, on a white screen I would think you could go bigger. Is that right Krosty?

Kosty

11-02-05, 09:59 PM

I was talking about a grey screen.

The HC3000 is a light cannon and could easily blast a 136 inch white screen. Obviously the bigger you go the less light output you get per square foot of screen.

But, on the subject of the grey screen, projector central calculator recommends a .9 gain screen for the HC3000 at a 106 inch screen. I not sure if that is too agressive for a low gain screen.

I last saw the HC3000 on a Draper High Grey Cineperm 92 inch screen with about .9 head on gain. As my comments above showed, I really liked that combination. Maybe you could go much bigger with a grey screen. I dunno.

If you have a head on viewing (within 20-30 degree viewing angle) with most grey screens some say you wouldn't lose much gain, but you would increase contrast and could cut some ambient light.

andy_puiu

11-03-05, 09:18 AM

SHKnapp - I think you're right about it being on the floor. I calculate 20" offset for a 120" diagonal screen size. You want 1/3 screen height below your eyes, which is 20" in this case. That means if your eyes are 40" above the floor, screen would be about 20 inches above the floor, which is the same as the vertical offset. Of course you could always have the screen a little higher on the wall than this recommended placement - you'll have a foot and a half of space to play with on your 8 ft tall wall.

I didn't think this projector had vertical lens shift - just the ability to move the 720 lines of resolution within the 768 chip capability. That equals 3.7 inches in your case. Not much, but maybe enough to have it just a bit off the floor and onto the bottom shelf of a coffee table. Someone else please comment if I'm wrong about the shift.

Brian Corr

11-03-05, 10:06 AM

I think you are correct Andy.
At the demo I went to, the rep moved the image up and it seemed to be about 3-4".

I'm picking my 3000 up today and with some luck, I'll have some time tonight to fire it up next to my BenQ 7700.

anbjornk

11-03-05, 06:57 PM

Anyone know where the lamp-counter on this projector is?

kosha

11-03-05, 08:39 PM

Comments from pjcentral forum:
http://www.***************.com/forum_topic.cfm?which=2558

Still no final review from Ekkehart!

Kosty

11-03-05, 10:33 PM

Well Evan Powell said his HC3000 is "next on the bench". Gees, I want to see the production model detailed tests from him and cine4home!!!

BTW I see that Evan zapped that mispllelled ;) review off the HC3000 consumer review page.

thaxx

11-03-05, 10:42 PM

I'm sure Evans review will have the HC3000 looking better than the up coming Ruby.
LOL
j/k

Brian Corr

11-04-05, 12:29 AM

I got my 3000 up and have spent just a little while fiddling with it.
It looks really good right out of the box. Ran through DVE and the color was spot on. I haven't decided on settings for contrast or brightness yet, that's gonna take some time and experimenting. Blacks look great and shadow detail also seems very good. I think the pic is a bit more 3d like than the benq 7700 and shadow detail seems a bit better too but I don't perceive it as tons better.
The fan of the 3000 seems to have a slightly higher pitched spin than the benq making it a little more noticeable, but it may just be that I'm paying more attention since it's brand new.
This weekend I'll spend some more time with both hooked up and try to get a feel for the actual differences.

I'm looking forward to some more in-depth reviews as well but I think it's safe to say that mitsubishi has a great pj for a great price. I can't wait to see what we'll have out in another year! ;)

Evan215

11-04-05, 09:58 AM

"The ultimate home cinema experience in HD. The new standard for everyone who dreams of high-resolution pictures in greater depth: the Mitsubishi HC3000. Compatible with HDTV (High Definition Television) and equipped with the new Dark Chip 2™ from Texas Instruments."

I thought the DC3 was the new technology!

Brian Corr

11-04-05, 10:14 AM

It's this thing called marketing. ;)

xp800

11-04-05, 10:00 PM

I am interested in getting a pdf of the user manual. I've tried looking online, but have found nothing more than the 4 page brochure. I'm specificaly interested in the buttons on the IR remote, if there is a single or double push power off, discrete IR source selects, and if there are RS232 codes in the manual.

What has anybody done for a ceiling mount?

I am so close to retiring my trusty LT150 and Panamorph, but I'm looking for a couple more details.

Thanks for any help.

Aalema

11-05-05, 01:02 AM

I am interested in getting a pdf of the user manual.

Go back to page 12, post #341. There is a link to a PDF of the manual.

anbjornk

11-05-05, 06:10 AM

No one knows where to find the lampt timer on Mitsubishi projectors?

Brian Corr

11-05-05, 09:47 AM

xp800,
It has discrete on/off commands and off does require 2 pushes of the off button. There are also discrete commands for the inputs, and basic video settings (sharpness, contrast, brightness). The RS232 commands are not posted in the manual. The iris is also controlled from the remote.

I haven't found a lamp timer that is viewable yet. Only the info for resetting the internal timer is in the manual. The hours are probably in the service menu.

I have noticed that the 48 unused pixels are visible and not totally black. But the screen frame pretty much absorbs all the light of the unused pixels so it's not an issue really for me. The only reason I even saw it is because I had to adjust the image all the way up (due to my ceiling height and not wanting to move the screen) with the vertical adjustment, putting the 48 pixels at the bottom. Most are hidden by the screen's frame, but a little is under the frame which is what I noticed. My walls are dark so it's no biggie.

I'm using a Chief universal RPA mount.

Later this afternoon, I'm going to try and hang my BenQ 7700 back where it was. Because of the different offsets and lense positions, I think I can have both ceiling mounted without interfering with each other and shoot on the same screen. Will make comparisons a little easier as all I have to do then is move the HDMI cable between the 2.

afilipi

11-05-05, 10:04 AM

Brian,

Does the Chief universal RPA mount allow you to adjust the pitch and roll separately from one another?

My current mount is of the "ball joint" variety. It is very time consuming to make adjustments with it because once I loosen it, the PJ moves freely in all three directions. I want to replace it with something that allows for independent adjustments of the pitch and roll.

Thanks,
Ales

J.Smith

11-05-05, 11:19 AM

No one knows where to find the lampt timer on Mitsubishi projectors?
HC900 had it in service menu. Up arrow + down arrow + enter from projector at the same time. I didn´t find lamp time counter from normal menus in this HC3000 either, it is strange logic that they don´t put it there!? Haven´t tried to get to service menu yet.
Very good projector. Coming from AE500 and HC900, this is clearly the most quiet, now you have to stop and listen to hear it, and if there is any sound from movie you can´t hear the projector.
Contrast seems even better than HC900, which wasn´t too bad either. Black level is very good now, even with this new bulb and lumens to share, things get even better by the time bulb gets some couple hundred hours on it. Colors have gotten better, natural and crisp, didn´t need to adjust anything special. Gamma at cinema, iris closed, lamp low and color at pre set 6500 and that´s it.
Picture is clean, no noise in good dvd´s like Monsters INC. No motion artifacts or any weird behavior have i been able to see yet. Monsters looked really 3D, depth was incredible.
I have 0.9 gain 88" screen, dvd player is panny s-97.
I had H79 ordered but after waiting for almost two months, i hear that it´s going to take another month at least, i wanted my money back. I bought this HC3000 and got it at under 24hours. So far i´ve been VERY pleased with this projector

thaxx

11-05-05, 11:42 AM

Kosty

11-05-05, 02:23 PM

According to Mitsubishi the lamp life counter is in the service menu. They haven't told us how to get to it yet.

Xander

11-05-05, 03:12 PM

This question has been asked previously, but not answered. Can anyone explain what the following in the HC3000 product specification (PDF file) means:

OFF SET AXIS: 3 : -1 up (No variable lens shift) ±38 degrees digital lens shift

Does moving the picture up or down by 48 pixels constitute 38 degrees?

J.Smith

11-05-05, 05:50 PM

J.Smith,
What are the biggest differences between the AE-500 and your new HC3000?
1. Screen Door
2. Color uniformity
3. Black level
4. Sharpness
5. Contrast
Also, how many hours do you have on the bulb of the AE-500?
Thanks
1.Black level
2.Contrast
3.Sharpness
4.Screen door
5.Color uniformity
Maybe like that, it´s definitely the blacks and contrast first, then the last three comes quite even. Hard to tell, because time has passed since i owned AE500.

My AE500 had about 500 hours when i sold it.

Yes you can shift picture up or down in 720p for some amount (no picture quality losed) , thanks to 1280*768 resolution. How much is it in degrees, i don´t know...It´s couple of inches in the screen maybe, haven´t measured that. But the reason why i wouldn´t use it, is because you can still see some light in the area under the screen if you lift the picture. It´s because those pixels or mirrors that are not in use leak some light there.
Somebody asked for pdf owners manual. I tried to attach it from the disc that came along, but it seems that pdf is not allowed for attachment, or maybe i´ve just had too much beer :o

Brian Corr

11-05-05, 06:28 PM

Ales,
Yes, you can adjust them indepently of each other with the Chief. My old mount is a ball type (Omnimount) and it was a pain as well.

Kosty

11-05-05, 10:57 PM

Quote:
I am interested in getting a pdf of the user manual.
...
Go back to page 12, post #341. There is a link to a PDF of the manual
---
Somebody asked for pdf owners manual. I tried to attach it from the disc that came along, but it seems that pdf is not allowed for attachment, or maybe i´ve just had too much beer

http://bobby.filipi.info/public/HC3000_manual.pdf

Thanks to afilipi for the hosting.

BTW page numbers may vary on your settings on how many posts are displayed per page. ;)

Brian Corr

11-05-05, 11:34 PM

I confirmed that the lamp hours can be viewed by pushing up, down and enter on the projector at the same time.

Jarno

11-06-05, 09:37 AM

I will try a non-anamorphic DVD on a 480i non-progressive DVD player tomorrow to see if the zoom 1 and zoom 2 functions work.

Any progress in this? I'm interested due to my Digital PVR that only has interlaced outputs.

Jarno

dragonbud0

11-06-05, 01:35 PM

I did a quick search on the user manual but did not find the color wheel speed. did I miss it by any chance? what is the speed, 4X or 5X? Thanks.

Josh Z

11-06-05, 01:57 PM

I did a quick search on the user manual but did not find the color wheel speed. did I miss it by any chance? what is the speed, 4X or 5X? Thanks.

It's an RGBRGB wheel with the red segments larger-than-normal, I believe.

Josh Z

11-06-05, 01:57 PM

I confirmed that the lamp hours can be viewed by pushing up, down and enter on the projector at the same time.

How do you press up and down at the same time? Are they separate buttons?

J.Smith

11-06-05, 02:01 PM

How do you press up and down at the same time? Are they separate buttons?
I used three fingers to push those three separate buttons ;)

Brian Corr

11-06-05, 03:21 PM

I'm pretty sure it's a 4x color wheel. Seems it would have been better to go 5x or 6x but I haven't really noticed any RBE and I am susceptible to seeing them.

I did take some spl measurements. The Benq 7700 was reading about 54-55 and the mits 3000 was a few db lower. The pitch of the noise with the mits is higher though. This was measured with the RS SPL meter, both projectors ceiling mounted above my seating position, probably 3'-4' above my head.

Zipplemeyer

11-06-05, 03:45 PM

Any thoughts from those who have seen the Mits and Benq PE7700 pq wise? I would be interested to here how they compare.

Moe

Anfield

11-06-05, 05:07 PM

I'm pretty sure it's a 4x color wheel. Seems it would have been better to go 5x or 6x but I haven't really noticed any RBE and I am susceptible to seeing them.

I believe the HC3000 har 5x speed on its colourwheel.....

afilipi

11-06-05, 06:00 PM

Brian: where did you position the RS SPL meter for the measurement? Are you saying that you got a reading of 54 dB in your seating position? 54-55 dB is incredibly noisy. I bet you must immediately hear the PJ fan when there is no dialog or music in a movie.

How can these units be rated around 25 dB?

Ales

anbjornk

11-06-05, 06:51 PM

Any thoughts from those who have seen the Mits and Benq PE7700 pq wise? I would be interested to here how they compare.

I used to own the 7700, but sold it before getting the 3000. I have not yet spent much time tweaking the 3000, but theres no doubt it's putting out a better picture. Better blacks and contrast, less dithering, less RBE (in my opinion) and even brighter than the 7700, which is supprising.

Ben Harper

11-06-05, 08:12 PM

Just fired up the HC3000. Must say it is quite impressive. No problem projecting a 120" image, even with some ambient light. Noticebly brighter that the AE900. Looks great out of the box. Without trying to stir the pot, I must say that overall it's a better image than the Panasonic. And, it is quieter.

On a down side, placement of this unit is tricky. I can do without lens shift if I have too (it's such a great feature), but the sharp angle from horizontal is extreme. This will test the patience of some folks (it does have a menu option to vary projection angle, though I haven't played with it yet). With the long throw and front exhaust, it would be great to shelf mount it against the back wall without having to flip the unit upside down.

If this thing streets at the same as the AE900 (and it should), and you can live with the more limited zoom and placement quirks, it's a steal and simply in a price for performance category of it's own.

If I can find my digital camera, I'll get some comparison pics up this week (HC3000, AE900, H78dc3).

Ben

Ben Harper

11-06-05, 08:14 PM

Oh, and no comparison to the 7700. It's brighter, much better colors (7700 too soft), quieter, and better shadow detail. It's a clear winner between these two.

Ben

muncey

11-06-05, 08:20 PM

how does it compare to the h78dc3?

muncey

Ben Harper

11-06-05, 08:47 PM

They actually have a very similar look. I'll try to post some side-by-side shots this week. I guess the logical question is whether the H78dc3 is worth the extra cost. I am a fan of Optoma, and it does have some extra features (besides DC3), but the premium may be hard to justify this time. Hopefully a direct, same circumstance comparison will clarify.

Ben

Zipplemeyer

11-06-05, 08:47 PM

Ben, Thanks for the info. Just how severe is the image offset on this projector? Is it bad enough that those of us with a low ceiling in the basement (7ft) are out of luck? I look forward to more of your views.

Moe

Brian Corr

11-06-05, 10:18 PM

Ales,

I was sitting on my couch with the spl meter pointed up. The analog RS meter only goes down to 50db so I don't know how accurate it is. It's also picking up the noise in the room (like A/C). I mainly just wanted to measure which projector was louder. You can definitely hear it if there is nothing else going on, but it gets washed out from the sound of whatever you are watching.

Moe,
take a look at the diagram posted earlier. It has a pretty good offset and with 7' ceilings, you are gonna have to mount the screen pretty low.

Here's a pic of the 2 ceiling mounted. Broke my digital camera yesterday so all I could snap was a pic with my phone, and it's soooo badddddd. :(
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brian.corr@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=mail&.dnm=d0ba.jpg&.src=ph

Brian Corr

11-06-05, 11:45 PM

I've spent some time comparing the two this weekend. (Batman begins, HD football, HDNET, etc)
Both running off HDMI going through a mechanical switch at the projectors. I simply pushed the button on the switcher to change projectors and covered the lense of the one I wasn't looking at. This way, I could switch back and forth with only about a 5 second delay.
I've calibrated both with Avia and DVE to get the contrast, brightness and color as close as possible.

I don't think the 7700 is brighter than the 3000. They appear pretty close to my eyes.
Other than the brightness appearing close, the 3000 appears sharper and has more depth. The 7700 is somewhat soft, like Ben mentioned. The 3000 also has the edge in shadow detail.
I wouldn't say it was dramatic but I clearly liked the pic the 3000 put out better. I haven't noticed any noise in the picture or anything excessive that is due to the projector, only the normal compression crap from HD via Directv.

Ximori

11-06-05, 11:57 PM

A user review (3rd one) in projectorcentral said he prefers it over the IF7205. Another positive remark.

afilipi

11-07-05, 08:10 AM

Ben,

When making the comparison between the HC3000 and H78dc3, could you take note of their relative fan noise? I'd be interested to know if the Optoma is noticeable quieter. I currently have a Mitsu XD300U, and the fan noise is driving me crazy.

Ales

anbjornk

11-07-05, 09:00 AM

I'd be interested to know if the Optoma is noticeable quieter.

Yes it is.

Ben Harper

11-07-05, 09:42 AM

The Optoma projectors (all of them) seem to be the quietest on the market. My previous experience with Mitsubishi was with an XD450, which is a rather loud unit. The HC3000, however is very quiet. Not as quiet as the Optoma, but close. Definitely quieter than the AE700/900.

However, all of these aforementioned projectors are fairly quiet. Compare them to any of the Infocus Screenplay models, which sound like a freight train, and you will appreciate the relative silence of any of these units.

Ben

Josh Z

11-07-05, 02:35 PM

I used three fingers to push those three separate buttons ;)

The reason I ask is that on my current projector (and on just about every device remote control I own), the Up and Down buttons are placed on a directional + pad, meaning that it is not possible to push two opposing directions at the same time. So I just wanted to confirm that the HC3000 has separate buttons for each direction.

mooney

11-07-05, 02:45 PM

Does the HC3000 have sealed optics?

Also anyone operating at 5000' elevation or higher? It is an overheating issue.

Greg Matty

11-07-05, 04:24 PM

anbjornk

11-07-05, 07:01 PM

I used three fingers to push those three separate buttons

It doesnt work on my HC3000 :|

Xander

11-07-05, 07:05 PM

I'm really getting excited about this projector, but the lack of vertical lens shift poses a problem in my theater since I have a 12" high ceiling beam running from left to right, about a third from the back of my theater. Now, I'm thinking about tilting the projector slightly up and tilting the top of the screen slightly forward like this (should overcome the problem of low ceilings that some have). What do you think?:

http://download.novascape.com/photos/projectors/ProjectorTilt.gif

DIY Guy

11-07-05, 07:53 PM

Xander,

With my low ceiling, that is exactly what I do with my NEC LT150 to compensate for the projector lens' offset. If I go with the HC3000, I'll do the same.

Murilo

11-07-05, 09:38 PM

Im looking for a small upgrade over my 8700+, but I am looking mainly for something brighter with more punch! Anyone know how this machine does when compared to the 8700+ in brightness and color?

Josh Z

11-08-05, 10:18 AM

Kosty

11-08-05, 12:13 PM

4 User reviews are now up on projector central. All generally favorable.

Still no technical reviews from Evan or cine4home.de :(

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HC3000.htm

Kosty

11-08-05, 12:27 PM

Now that we have a handful of users getting their hands on this model, I'd like to find out what its flaws and weaknesses are. Every projector has some, and they're going to come out sooner or later. So what is it (aside from the already mentioned lack of lens shift) that really could have been done better on this projector?

Josh,

Do you have a reference you want us to compare the HC3000 to?

I think the reason you aren't seeing many flaws commented on is that the HC3000 blows away most projectors in its price class.

I could say that the picture was not quite as good as the Texas Instruments reference system that or other $12,000+ systems but it favorably compares to $5,000+ DC3 systems. Everything is relative.

I think most of us are waiting for the detailed reviews I have mentioned above to show some technical flaws.

I saw some little things like the calibration out of the box could have been better , and the non-memory learning remote is ok, and the number of picture settings and options can be confusing. What the BrilliantColor on/off does is not documented. But the picture is overall very very good.

I have seen some picture issues, but I found that we could find some adjustment to correct it. I don't think I have or others that have seen the HC3000 are reluctant to point out any flaws, just a little hesitant to highlight anything that might have been user error.

So far it has done everthing we have asked it to do. And that has impressed me.

griffine

11-08-05, 12:56 PM

Kosty,

It's been great getting your personal impressions of the HC3000 over the last week or so. I believe someone asked earlier in this thread about how it compared to the Infocus 7210. It may be more appropriate to compare it to the 7205 since they have the same chipset and I've heard that the price of the 7205 may be coming down and close to the HC3000 level in the near future. Can anyone compare these two machines and discuss pros and cons?

Gregg

jd_greene

11-08-05, 01:00 PM

Im looking for a small upgrade over my 8700+, but I am looking mainly for something brighter with more punch! Anyone know how this machine does when compared to the 8700+ in brightness and color?

Murilo, I just upgrade from an 8700+ and couldn't be happier. The 3000 is a light canon compared to the 8700+. Last weekend I turned the lamp to standard mode with the Brilliant color turned on and the iris opened up and was able to watch football on my 101" Silverstar with some of the lights turned on and it looked great. My 8700+ would tend to wash out with slightest of ambient light. For movies I found the best picture to be when the lamp is in low mode with the Brilliant color turned on, as I get much better shadow detail in dark scenes. I haven't had time to calibrate it yet but it doesn't seem to be too much off right out of the box.

The one thing I like better on the 8700+ is the build quality. The 3000 is housed in a plastic case and is about 3/4 the size, and half the weight of the 8700+. Not that big of deal I guess and it does make it easier to install.

When I went to install the 3000 I found it to have a longer throw and about a 6 inch difference in the off set. In which in my case I had to move the projector back a foot and up six inches to compensate. Luckily I have tall ceiling in my basement so it wasn't a problem for me but could be for others.

Ja Phule

11-08-05, 01:02 PM

Murilo

11-08-05, 01:06 PM

In the offset, does that mean it had to be 6 inches higher then your 8700? My 8700 is about as high as it can go sadly.

CKL

11-08-05, 01:16 PM

jd_greene

11-08-05, 01:34 PM

In the offset, does that mean it had to be 6 inches higher then your 8700? My 8700 is about as high as it can go sadly.

Yes, 6 inches higher. JD

Kosty

11-08-05, 01:41 PM

I guess we won't know the answer to this question until those technical reviews are out, but I'll ask anyway. How closely tuned to 6500k is the hc3000? I wondering if it's comparable to Infocus projectors.

The preliminary German cine4home.de review on their pre-production sample showed an easy adjustment to 6500.

muncey

11-08-05, 02:31 PM

I have just received a HC3000 today. First impression - good color rendering, deep black, high contrast and bright enough. I can get 1:1 mapping at 1280x768 but not 1280x720. There are choice of screen size and aspect ratio. I need to try different combinations to verify if it really can't prefectly map 720P.

Great, no 1:1 mapping for 1280x720. that along with the off set kills this one for me.

muncey

Josh Z

11-08-05, 02:39 PM

I have just received a HC3000 today. First impression - good color rendering, deep black, high contrast and bright enough. I can get 1:1 mapping at 1280x768 but not 1280x720. There are choice of screen size and aspect ratio. I need to try different combinations to verify if it really can't prefectly map 720P.

Will the projector accept 1280x768 over HDMI? If so, does it project a 1.66:1 image with all pixels used?

What equipment are you using to test 1:1 mapping?

Josh Z

11-08-05, 02:42 PM

Do you have a reference you want us to compare the HC3000 to?

No, I don't have a reference. I'm sure it will be better than my current projector. I'm just wondering if there are any noticeable picture quality weaknesses (RBE, motion artifacts, etc.) or any user feature annoyances.

Muncey's note about 1:1 pixel mapping concerns me (I use an outboard iScan scaler), so I'm hoping to get clarification on that.

Kosty

11-08-05, 04:22 PM

See the manual. It does 1 to 1 mapping of 1280x720. 720p.

48 pixels of resolution are turned off but can be shifted up and down.

It is a dual use DMD than can either display 4:3 1024x768 or 16:9 1280x720 in a native mode depending on the input.

Josh Z

11-08-05, 04:35 PM

See the manual. It does 1 to 1 mapping of 1280x720. 720p.

Well, a lot of projectors and other digital displays claim to have specific native rates, but in practice wind up rescaling the input signal anyway. This is something that really needs to be tested with a scaler or HTPC to be verified.

jd_greene

11-08-05, 04:37 PM

In the offset, does that mean it had to be 6 inches higher then your 8700? My 8700 is about as high as it can go sadly.

Murilo, you can also move the picture up and down it the display menu without effecting the picture quality. Not sure how much but it might be enough to compensate for the difference.

Kosty

11-08-05, 04:46 PM

This is the first DLP I think of any price that has the new 3020 controller ASIC.

So it is supposed to be a big improvement in picture quality and artifacts. I have looked for RBE and motion artifacts and picture dithering and I can honestly say I haven't seen any, even though I have been looking.

Until other PJ's come on the market with the 3020 processor and/or Brilliant Color processing and BrilliantColor multicolor wheel this projector is in a niche by itself IMHO. Technology moves forward and by next year you'll find a product that gives you the same performance at a better price.

The really neat thing is that the HC3000 is now good enough that you can duplicate real cinema picture quality in a really big screen that you can sit right up to without pixels at a sub $3000 price. That's a real breakthrough. How the new LCD's compare for their slightly lower street price, I still don't know.

The nice options and the ease of tweaking on the HC3000 (easy switching between user modes so you can see what a change does) are just gravy.

Before I had to compromise in picture quality and number of native pixels for the price I wanted. Now the picture is good enough that the marginal cost of a better picture probably isn't worth it to me. To me this is the point that this PJ is good enough, so that any more money spent to me is wasted.

For some people that point may come at the picture quality/cost of a cheaper PJ, or for the cheaper street price with some picture quality and possible quality issues of a Panny AE900 or Sanyo Z4.

The HC3000 is so far hitting my sweet spot on a performance/price standpoint. I suspect it will hit a lot of other peoples also.