This is the first DLP I think of any price that has the new 3020 controller ASIC.

So it is supposed to be a big improvement in picture quality and artifacts. I have looked for RBE and motion artifacts and picture dithering and I can honestly say I haven't seen any, even though I have been looking.

Until other PJ's come on the market with the 3020 processor and/or Brilliant Color processing and BrilliantColor multicolor wheel this projector is in a niche by itself IMHO. Technology moves forward and by next year you'll find a product that gives you the same performance at a better price.

The really neat thing is that the HC3000 is now good enough that you can duplicate real cinema picture quality in a really big screen that you can sit right up to without pixels at a sub $3000 price. That's a real breathrough. How the new LCD's compare for their slightly lower street price, I still don't know.

The nice options and the ease of tweaking on the HC3000 (easy switching between user modes so you can see what a change does) are just gravy.

Before I had to compromise in picture quality and number of native pixels for the price I wanted. Now the picture is good enough that the marginal cost of a better picture probably isn't worth it to me. To me this is the point that this PJ is good enough, so that any more money spent to me is wasted.

For some people that point may come at the picture quality/cost of a cheaper PJ, or for the cheaper street price with some picture quality and possible quality issues of a Panny AE900 or Sanyo Z4.

The HC3000 is so far hitting my sweet spot on a performance/price standpoint. I suspect it will hit a lot of other peoples also.

Very well said. Thanks for the all your posts. I also think this is the point where the H78 will get toppled by the pj's sheer performance alone. An improvement in sharpness and color can make a huge difference in overall quality.

Yesterday, I breifly tested HC3000 with Plasmer Enhancer Pro + Lexicon RT10 (SDI mod) + HDMI to HDMI cable. I will test it with HTPC today.

CKL, so how was it?

jd_greene, your opinion is of special interest to me, as I have a BenQ 8700 too, which I'm very happy with, but would gladly welcome a quieter projector with deeper blacks.

You mentioned using the projector to watch sports with some lights on. But how does it perform when watching films with all lights off?

Specifically:

How is the black level and shadow detail?
Is it quieter than the PE8700?
Do you think one could use it on Low mode on a 80"-diagonal screen?

BTW, what screen size are you using?

Thanks a lot.

CKL, I'm really interested in your opinion and feedback on this projector, specifically the 1:1 mapping at 1280x720 and how it compares to the AE900, Z4 and HS60. TIA

After further test, I find a secrete that when HC3000 auto sync with the input the signal, it will alter the overscan some times (not always). You need to check if Signal>User>press OK>overscan is 100%. When overscan is 100%, I can get 1:1 mapping of 1280x768, 1280x720 and 1024x768 feeding by Crystalio scaler plus Panny RP82 with SDI mod. I use Crystalio's preset timing of 1280x768RT, 1280x720RT and 1024x768RT. There is no cropping at all.

In the case of HTPC, I can get 1:1 mapping of 720P only. Even I copy the timing of Crystalio RT, 1280x768 and 1024x768 can't prefectly map the panel. Even I follow the refresh rates stated in the user manual, it doesn't work. Please be reminded that you need to set the aspect ratio be Auto or 16:9 but not Real to obtain pixel prefect at 720P. I've tried 48Hz and 72Hz of 720P at HTPC. It seems the frequency is locked and there is no flash after I change the refresh rate or reboot the HTPC.

Measurement and calibration will be carried on.

In the case of HTPC, I can get 1:1 mapping of 720P only. Even I copy the timing of Crystalio RT, 1280x768 and 1024x768 can't prefectly map the panel. Even I follow the refresh rates stated in the user manual, it doesn't work.

I know. I sent a mail to Mitsubishi the other day, but I'm still waiting for a reply :)

Introducing a line of digital projectors designed for the cinematic connoisseur: the Mitsubishi HC3000U DLP™ projector with BrilliantColor™ technology from Texas Instruments.

It delivers everything you would expect from a Mitsubishi home theater projector - long lamp life, low fan noise, and portability - but it's also setting new standards with innovative technology. The Mitsubishi HC3000U DLP™ projector, unlike other digital projectors, is able to produce a dramatic 4000:1 contrast ratio that accentuates deeper and darker tones to create an overall stunning visual experience with vivid images and brilliant colors.

At the heart of the HC3000U is Texas Instruments’ state-of-the-art TI DarkChip2™ with the DDP3020 chip featuring BrilliantColor™. BrilliantColor™ is a new, cutting-edge technology that enables higher brightness, by boosting the midtone color levels, while providing truer, more vibrant colors for realistic and lifelike images. Be it sports, movies or television, the HC3000U can turn your home theater room into a virtual stadium, cinema, or studio.

As soon as you switch it on, you’ll see it. And then you’ll understand. This is a product of tomorrow that brings home real entertainment today.
yada yada yada, ..... But will it please Evan at Projector Central and the Cine4home guys?

http://www.mitsubishi-hometheater.com/hc3000u.asp

"After further test, I find a secrete that when HC3000 auto sync with the input the signal, it will alter the overscan some times (not always). You need to check if Signal>User>press OK>overscan is 100%. When overscan is 100%, I can get 1:1 mapping of 1280x768, 1280x720 and 1024x768 feeding by Crystalio scaler plus Panny RP82 with SDI mod. I use Crystalio's preset timing of 1280x768RT, 1280x720RT and 1024x768RT. There is no cropping at all.

In the case of HTPC, I can get 1:1 mapping of 720P only. Even I copy the timing of Crystalio RT, 1280x768 and 1024x768 can't prefectly map the panel. Even I follow the refresh rates stated in the user manual, it doesn't work. Please be reminded that you need to set the aspect ratio be Auto or 16:9 but not Real to obtain pixel prefect at 720P. I've tried 48Hz and 72Hz of 720P at HTPC. It seems the frequency is locked and there is no flash after I change the refresh rate or reboot the HTPC.

Measurement and calibration will be carried on. "

__________________
CKL


CKL or others ; For those of us that don't understand 1 to 1 pixel mapping ;
So what is the net effect ,for those of us that don't use HTPC ? Is the picture cropped, is it degraded ? Will it effect anything ? Thanks

I don't use a HTPC and I see no cropping on 720p. I don't think there is an issue if using a dvd player or sat receiver.

Ales,
You asked earlier about 4:3. When the projector is set on "auto" and I feed it a 4:3 signal from my sat box, it displays it with bars on the sides but fills the screen vertically perfect (so it's outputting 720, not 768). I haven't played with the other settings but I'll try and get a chance to do it.

a 5th user review at projectorcentral...

doesn't anyone have something negative to say about this pj?

doesn't anyone have something negative to say about this pj?
I know, it's almost kinda scary... ;) Especially with all the bitches and moans over in the AE900 and Z4 forums.
The HC3000U hit the street later, but still?

a 5th user review at projectorcentral...

doesn't anyone have something negative to say about this pj?


Can someone post some links to some online reviews(in English)?

I'll bite.
I really wish it used 4 mounting holes instead of just the 3. And why the cheap a** lense cover. ;)

Isamu,
There are no reviews anywhere yet. Trust us, once there are, we'll be critiquing them here. ;)

Most of us use to robo translate the German or Japanese reviews.

http://babelfish.altavista.com
or
http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
or
http://www.worldlingo.com/

timewarp time - Mikesrc link from below post #521
http://www.online-translator.com/srvurl.asp?lang=en

Any other web page translation links?

based on specs, better/greater zoom capabilities and lens shift would nice.

There are no reviews anywhere yet. Trust us, once there are, we'll be critiquing them here.

Way back in this forum there were links to a preliminary review on a German site
cine4home.de. They have promised a more comphrehensive review any time now.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsuHC3000/Preview/HC3000Prev.htm

Cut and paste the link in the translation sites.

of course, no mention of actual price, but is anyone finding units for less than the MSRP?

of course, no mention of actual price, but is anyone finding units for less than the MSRP?
No, but I'm still trying! No free lamp in USA so far as well.

darn it! anyone feel free to PM me if they do! :D
I think its between this and the new Optoma H72 for me.

jd_greene, your opinion is of special interest to me, as I have a BenQ 8700 too, which I'm very happy with, but would gladly welcome a quieter projector with deeper blacks.

You mentioned using the projector to watch sports with some lights on. But how does it perform when watching films with all lights off?

Specifically:

How is the black level and shadow detail?
Is it quieter than the PE8700?
Do you think one could use it on Low mode on a 80"-diagonal screen?

BTW, what screen size are you using?

Thanks a lot.


Grubert, I found the shadow detail to just have more overall depth then the 8700+. I wouldn't say it's a drastic improvement but enough for me to upgrade.

Standard mode - I would say it's a little quieter then the 8700+.
Low mode - The projector is extremely quite, I really have to listen for it to hear it.

I have a 101" Silverstar and I prefer to use the lamp in the low mode so it shouldn't have a problem with your 80".

Any other web page translation links?

I've found the following to work better than Babelfish or Google:

http://www.online-translator.com/srvurl.asp?lang=en

BTW, saw the HC3000 again yesterday at EHExpo. Very impressive picture. Still trying to get one for review. :(

Ekkehart just mentioned in another thread I started he will have a final review by the end of next week, (he hinted that maybe he will have an english version):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=601774

a 5th user review at projectorcentral...

doesn't anyone have something negative to say about this pj?


Would one negative review outweigh the 5 positive ones already posted? :D Actually, it may be too early to have an accurate gauge as to what people are experiencing. Obviously, you'll need to take these reviews with a grain of salt. It does look promising however that there are no negative reviews as of yet. I've had a chance to see this unit on a couple of occasions. Overall, I'm impressed with the unit, although I was able to see rainbows in a few different scenes. That being said, I can see them in most DLP units.

Spent a good 2 hours comparing the Z4 against the HC3000.

My friends impressions were as follows and I completely agree with them.

When I saw the Z4 and Hc3000 together they were set up one beneath the other in dark room demo room. Not perfectly blacked out but reasonable.

The screen was a stewart grey hawk with a 110" diagonal. Both PJ's being fed from a pioneer dvd player via component.

The test was fairly simple and not very scientific. Blank out one image and watch the other.

We were sat some 12' back from the screen. We watched a bit of Return of the Jedi and lord of the rings. The scenes in moria and the duel between luke and Darth.

On its own the Z4 did look impressive, colourful, sharp with only a hint of screendoor in the light areas. Its absolute black fell some way short of the base black of the screen in the dark. Now if some one gave me one of these I wouldnt be too upset, in fact I would be quite pleased.

The HC3000, its DLP and I did see rainbows. But in 1.5 hours of viewing I saw two of them, not sure if the brilliant coulour chip made the more coulourful or not but they didnt show themselves for very long. In my opinion the rainbows were less frequent and smaller than those I have seen before. The sharpness and colour were equally as good as the Z4, maybe with more tweaking the may get slightly better, but there didnt look to be much room for improvement in these areas on either machine.

What the HC3000 did much better was to make a truly realistic and satisfying black, comparing starfield to starfield one after the other it was obvious that the Z4 could not do this.

This is only my opinion, I am not a rocket scientist, just a low paid aerospace engineer. LCD claim fantastic contrast levels that I just cant see in practice. The 4000:1 claimed for the HC3000 sounds realistic.

Zags

Did the Z4 have a strong red tint OTB? In the Colorado Springs CO shootout last week the Z4 was that way and we only had a few minutes to remove most of the overly red tendency. The sharpness of the Z4 was impressive but against any of the DLP the blacks fell short.

I agree if someone gave me a Z4 I would take it but...DLP for me.

Few questions
1. Does the HC3000 have sealed optics
2. How did the fan noise on low compare
3. How did the brightness compare
4. Were the PJ calibrated

Thanks

Would one negative review outweigh the 5 positive ones already posted? :D Actually, it may be too early to have an accurate gauge as to what people are experiencing. Obviously, you'll need to take these reviews with a grain of salt. It does look promising however that there are no negative reviews as of yet. I've had a chance to see this unit on a couple of occasions. Overall, I'm impressed with the unit, although I was able to see rainbows in a few different scenes. That being said, I can see them in most DLP units.

Actually there was one bad review on Projector Central, but it was removed. My guess is the person that wrote the review wasn't English speaking.

The Projector central user opinion is kinda funny. Hard to take sumone sereous who can't spell or take a minute to write a cuple desent sentenses. BTW I see that Evan zapped that mispllelled review off the HC3000 consumer review page. Actually there was one bad review on Projector Central, but it was removed. My guess is the person that wrote the review wasn't English speaking. I believe the one bad review was removed because of previous postings by the user that were obviously not constructive, but were essentially stupid graffiti. The removed review was obviously hasty and had many misspellings. I think projector central removed it because they thought it was written as a crank message and was not credible.

Their normal policy is to keep up negative reviews if they look legitimate.

I can't even remember what it said, I just remember it was incoherent and badly misspelled.

In the Colorado Springs CO shootout last week

Darn I forgot all about that shootout. Can you post a link to the thread about the CO shootout plz?

What I'd like to know is whether the "Brilliant Color" (especially with this RGBRGB wheel) just boosts the vibrancy of primary colors, or if it increases the range of hues between the primaries also. I'd like to see the most accurate color reproduction, which may or may not be the most eye popping, because not every movie is meant to look like a comic book.

Any comments on that from people using it?

CO Projector Shootout Link

Try http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589990&page=3&pp=30

Results start about page 3

What I'd like to know is whether the "Brilliant Color" (especially with this RGBRGB wheel) just boosts the vibrancy of primary colors, or if it increases the range of hues between the primaries also. I'd like to see the most accurate color reproduction, which may or may not be the most eye popping, because not every movie is meant to look like a comic book.The colors seem to be more lifelike and accurate, definitely not cartoonish. I guess you could tune the HC3000 to make it garish but it can be very lifelike or filmlike.

Two additional thoughts: First the BrilliantColor on/off option on the HC3000 menu does something that overall brightens the picture, almost like an enhanced gamma curve, I like it on, but it possible to duplicate almost the effects by leaving it off and changing the multitude of other menu variables.

But the 3020 ASIC processor which enables the BrilliantColor algorithm seems to be doing great work on greyscale and motion rendering etc and color accuracy all the time. As I mentioned before in a BrilliantColor thread I really don't know how it does it with a R+GBR+GB color wheel, but I like it.

Kosty, I just wanted to say thanks for all your feedback. Your work as this projector's primary "guinea pig" has been very helpful.

CO Projector Shootout Link

Try http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589990&page=3&pp=30

Results start about page 3

Is this projector mentioned in there? I don't see it on page 3.

I don't think the HC3000 was at the CO shootout. I think others were interested in how the Sanyo Z4 and Panasonic AE900 performed as these are possible alternatives for the HC3000.

Picked up my HC3000 today. I'm no expert but after returning a Z4 earlier in the week my initial impressions are as follows;

(Set-Up : Connected at the moment via cheap component lead to Arcam DV89, dark room, Carada BW 1.4 Gain 80inch screen, seating distance 11-12ft)

1st Impressions very positive. Throws a fantastic picture out of the box and after a few tweaks is really starting to look good.

Tried a few DVDs so far I Robot, LOTR Fellowship, Gladiator.

Positives so far:

Stunning three dimensional picture deep blacks and no screendoor.

Sharp detailed picture although not as sharp as the Z4

Brilliant Color seems to enhance the colours but makes the picture brighter, perhaps too bright?? Not sure if I prefer it on or off yet..

Negatives:

Rainbows for my eyes are still there albeit rare. Can't determine if any better or worse than my Optoma H30 yet.

PJ mounting flexibility - No lens shift and long throw. Had to move the PJ right back. No good if you want a big picture from a short throw.

Light leakage - Appears to leak quite a lot of light from around the front and side cooling ducts. (Yet to fit extra filter though).

Overall

Very impressed with the image. After having both the Z4 and HC3000 in my cinema this week. I'm keeping the HC3000.

The projector central review is up!!!!

http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc3000.htm

Overall, he sums up what has already been said. It puts out a great image.

OFFSET????? may be a disqualifier for me....

The projector central review is up!!!!

http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc3000.htm

Overall, he sums up what has already been said. It puts out a great image.


Well it's about TIME! Good review, but wow....he didn't mention ANY of the connection types the pj has. DVI? HDMI? How many sets of components? etc etc.

Well I never took my 900 out of its box because I might return it for the HC3000. Its just taking forever for comparisons to come out. Hopefully by the end of the month I'll know what I'm doing, in time for xbox 360. Then there's this whole throw issue with the 3000. If I do keep the 900, I know I'm upgrading next year anyway for c2fine...

The reviewer @ PJC gives an example of a 120" screen w/ a 9' ceiling. Is there any calculator or method to figure out at what height the projector would need to be mounted from the ceiling for given screen sizes and throw distances. The calculator for the 3000 on PJC just gives the throw distance but not the height in relation to the top of the screen. This offset seems like a real bummer as I have eagerly been awaiting this PJ. I hope I can make it work and I hope you guys can help me make it work.

This offset seems like a real bummer as I have eagerly been awaiting this PJ. I hope I can make it work and I hope you guys can help me make it work.


I'm curious but do you guys mean when you say offset, and why is this bad?

There's a chart in the manual with the offsets.

Isamu, offset is the difference between the center of the lense and where the image is projected. For example, if the projector is ceiling mounted and the lense is 24" below the ceiling, the top of the image would be 44" below the ceiling (just an example, the actual distance depends on screen size and distance from the screen)

The offset on this projector is bad if you have short ceilings but is great if you have something like a 10' ceiling and want the projector as high as possible, while still having the screen at a reasonable height.

From the manual for a 16:9 screen:
80" diag. has a 13.2" offset
100" diag. has a 16.5" offset
150" diag. has a 24.7" offset

based on those numbers:
110" diag. has a 18.2" offset
106" diag. has a 17.5" offset
92" diag. has a 15.2" offset

Since it wasn't mentioned in the review what inputs the projector has:
HDMI in
computer in/component video in via mini d-sub 15 pin
component video in
serial terminal (8 pin)
USB terminal
trigger terminal
RCA video in
S video in

The projector central review pretty much tracks with my observations. ;)

Bottom line:
Picture looks great, very tweakable, no image compromises, great contrast level, better colors than most (even more expensive) DLP's, a breakthrough DLP picture for the price.

The projector is optimized for a ceiling mounting and the engineers put their money in the image quality not the ease and flexibility of installation.

The lack of physical lens shift, a defined best throw range and fixed image shift are home theater design considerations. The HC3000 is pretty much optimized to be mounted on a 8 to 10 foot ceiling.

For those concerned there have been several posts on what the image shift is and the throw calculators earlier in this thread. For most people it should work just fine.

BTW any trace of rainbow effect seems to very limited in this machine, so maybe LCD guys should test drive it before making a final decision. I think the new 3020 ASIC and 10 bit greyscale and color processing greatly reduces the RBE.

If you are not DLP phobic (or very RBE sensitive), don't mind ceiling mounting and can afford the MSRP, this looks like a winner.

DIY Guy posted the offset & throw chart up a few pages back on post #421.

The chart shows a table mount. For ceiling mounts the offset shown is on the top down from the ceiling below the projector mount.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6460302&&#post6460302

Well that offset puts me out. I will have a 120" screen and a 8 foot ceiling.
According to the specs, even if I mounted it as flush as it could go against the ceiling. and the center of the lens would be about 2-3 inches from the ceiling, plus the offset, that's about 23" from the ceiling. Screen height is 59", 59"+23"=82" that leaves the bottom of the picture only 14" from the floor. I would have to have a 3 foot high platform for my back row of seats to see over the first row. That's a shame, I really wanted to get this PJ.

How about floor mounting the PJ for your situation.

BTW Isn't 23 inch from top and 14 inch from bottom pretty much the center of the wall?

Someone suggested tilting the screen forward to avoid keystoning.
Then again, you could always slightly keystone it.

Thaxx, how about going to max or min zoom , would that affect the offset?

The manual doesn't mention the max or min. zoom affecting the offset number, I imagine if it made much of a difference, it would of mentioned it.

I could tilt the pj and tilt the screen, but then you have the possibility of uneven focus.

The problem with the bottom of the picture only being 14" off the floor is, I have 2 rows of seating. I would have to elevate my back row off the ground over 3 feet just to see over the front row seats. My platform would need a ladder.

thax, from what I can tell your math is right. I feel your pain and imagine you would have liked to have had the top of your picture maybe 5" off of the ceiling or something like that, not 23. I think you'd have to consider a smaller image, say 110" to raise the image up off of the floor.

Yea, I currently have my picture exactly 5" like you said. But going to a smaller screen to fit the projector is a deal breaker for me. I guess I'll keep looking. Maybe even wait for the Optoma H81 that's suppose to retail for $6K. 1080 DLP.
We'll see.

Just wanted to add my opinion about the offset problem...it is also a deal breaker for me. The farthest from the ceiling I was ready to hang my 106 in. diagonal screen was 14 inches. It seems that with this PJ the top of my screen would have to be about 19 inches below my ceiling. That's too bad. My ceiling is 8 ft high. I guess This PJ is better suited for those who have high ceilings...which is not my case....




Stef

man I'm bummed. I was really looking forward to this PJ. Even at a 110" screen, which is what I was shooting for in the first place I don't know if this PJ will work for me:

ceiling (8ft) 96"
PJ center of lense 3" from ceiling -3"
----------
93"

110" screen= 54" screen height
54" divided by 1/3 fixed offset angle 54/3= 18"

top of screen = 18" down from ceiling

18"+54"=72" (the blank space above screen + screen height)
96"-72"=24" (height of ceiling - blank space above screen & screen)= bottom of screen would be 24" or 2 FT. off the floor

I think that might be too low for the people in the second row to be able to view. It's too bad I'd have to waste 1 1/2 feet above the screen by not being able to use a lens shift.

Is the big reason offset is such a deal breaker for everyone their second row seating? I live by myself and my HT room consists of one recliner in the center of the room. I have 8' ceilings and though a 106" image may be only two feet off the ground, I don't see that as a problem. Guess there is something to be said for living by myself. :p

Greg

In a previous post (#463), Ben Harper talked about an "option to vary the projection angle" in the menu. Is it only keystoning or something else? I also believe that the 720 lines can be moved up within the 768 lines of vertical resolution the PJ has. If the 720 lines are centered, you can move the picture 24 lines up or down without any keystone. With a 106 diag screen, it would mean you can move the image about 2 inches up. That could help (a bit?)...Are my assumptions right?

In a previous post (#463), Ben Harper talked about an "option to vary the projection angle" in the menu. Is it only keystoning or something else? I also believe that the 720 lines can be moved up within the 768 lines of vertical resolution the PJ has. If the 720 lines are centered, you can move the picture 24 lines up or down without any keystone. With a 106 diag screen, it would mean you can move the image about 2 inches up. That could help (a bit?)...Are my assumptions right?

I believe that is the case, and I haven't given up hope yet but I'm going to have to be sure I buy from a vendor with an outstanding return policy. I think I need to see it in my home to be sure it is acceptable. If it works out, I'd be thrilled to have this PJ but if not, I'll have to come up with plan B.

Greg, yeah that's what we're concerned with. Other wise having the bottom 2' off the ground is not much different than having your TV on a stand. But when your a row back, lookin over the seats in front of you, yeah that foot might make a difference. Enjoy the single life my friend! :cool:

the new optoma h72 may be an alternative. it's a brillant color machine w/ the 1280x768 chip also. i don't know what the offset will be but i believe it is fixed. should cost a little less than the HC3000. i hope the offset is less. should be out at the end of the year or early 2006.
muncey

I predict the HC will drop in "street price" as more reviews get out and people find out about this offset thing. I'm still going to try and figure out a way to make it work for me.

Mitsubishi has a 90 day exclusive on the new chip so I'd expect to see other projectors using the chip (like the optoma) sometime around Jan./Feb.

It will probably street for less as well, since Optoma isn't as strict on internet sales.

One thing I've noticed also regarding the offset is that the top of the image isn't static when using the zoom. As you zoom in and out, the top of the image moves up and down rather than staying at the same horizontal level. Some projectors do this, some don't. I'll have to go test it again as I don't remember how much it made a difference, but that coupled with adjusting the image up or down may help some of you guys who have less than ideal mounting situations for this projector.

The other option is tha LG AN110 with the same DMD chip. It does have vertical lens shift but the spec sheets seem to indicate a lower constrast ratio than this machine. By the way I've checked some German retailers and they already have it in stock.

Mitsubishi has a 90 day exclusive on the new chip so I'd expect to see other projectors using the chip (like the optoma) sometime around Jan./Feb.

It will probably street for less as well, since Optoma isn't as strict on internet sales.

One thing I've noticed also regarding the offset is that the top of the image isn't static when using the zoom. As you zoom in and out, the top of the image moves up and down rather than staying at the same horizontal level. Some projectors do this, some don't. I'll have to go test it again as I don't remember how much it made a difference, but that coupled with adjusting the image up or down may help some of you guys who have less than ideal mounting situations for this projector.

Supposedly Optoma's new PJ will ship in Decmber. I suppose if Mitsubishi is behind 45 days as a result of a production delay on their own behalf, Optoma could ship in December and not conflict with the 90 day exclusive. I sure would like to see one of these guys priced at $2,200 on the street.

Greg

I think the 48 pixels of up movement adjustment could really help you 2nd row of seating guys. That 2-3 inches should help.

Plus when when others have played with the setup angle a slight upward angle was unnoticable. I don't know how many inches that would buy.

The keystone adjustment worked really well for slight up & down angles. The disadvantage was that real mode ie. HDTV signals were not keystoned. But with a 120 inch screen that would only be a inch or so difference in width from the top to the bottom.

So basically if I plan on using say a 106" screen with an 8' ceiling and will have nothing in front of me when viewing, I should be OK?

Brian: yes, the location of top of the image depends on the zoom. This is normal for Mitsubishi projectors. As you zoom to make the image smaller, the top of the image moves up--i.e., the offset is shrinking. In some sense, this makes installation easier because the offset depends only on the image size and not on the degree of zoom.

Isamu,
I just measured and the top of the viewing area on my 106" screen is 82.25" above the floor. The projector is 93.5" above the floor (measured to the center of the lense)
I have the projector angled up just slightly but am using no keystone. The grid in the menu aligns perfectly on the screen though, even know I'm using no keystone. Who knows, maybe my screen wall isn't plumb. ;)
The front of the lense is 163" from the screen. The offset from the manual shows it should be 17.5", but based on the amount of zoom I'm using, it's only 11.25".
There's definitely some flexiblity from what the manual says for offset.
My digital camera broke but I'll see if I can get a replacement and snap some pics of the mounting setup in my place.

can all hc3000 owners post some comments/thoughts , on there screens.

Isamu,
I just measured and the top of the viewing area on my 106" screen is 82.25" above the floor. The projector is 93.5" above the floor (measured to the center of the lense)
I have the projector angled up just slightly but am using no keystone. The grid in the menu aligns perfectly on the screen though, even know I'm using no keystone. Who knows, maybe my screen wall isn't plumb. ;)
The front of the lense is 163" from the screen. The offset from the manual shows it should be 17.5", but based on the amount of zoom I'm using, it's only 11.25".
There's definitely some flexiblity from what the manual says for offset.
My digital camera broke but I'll see if I can get a replacement and snap some pics of the mounting setup in my place.

That would leave you around 2.5' off of the floor for the bottom of your screen. That would be acceptable to me. Do you think I would be able to get this slight angle up by mounting the PJ on a shelf that I plan to suspend from the ceiling (adjustments using the PJs feet perhaps) or does it have to do with the ceiling mount?

BTW what color is your wall if it's not plumb? You know a matte white should work well! :p

BTW, I'm using just a little bit of the vertical adjustment as well, I think it was about half way up if memory serves. The adjustment is from 0-20 I think, but only 0-6 moves the top of the image. After 6, just the bottom moved up. Not sure why but it worked ok anyway for me. I think I am at 3, maybe 4.

My screen is a 106" Screen Innovations Reference, 1.3 gain.

I'm using the chief mount to angle the projector up but you could just use some rubber feet or something. You'll have the projector upside down if ceiling mounted so the adjustable feet won't do you much good. I made a platform once for a projector that sat in a cubby hole upside down from the ceiling. Just got a piece of wood and cut it to roughly the size of the projector, then put some threaded inserts into the wood and then screwed in some bolts. I also stuck some rubber end pieces over the ends of the bolts for protection, then layed the projector on top. Then you just have to thread or unthread the bolts to adjust the projector. Got it all at Home Depot , cost less than $10.
Here's a pic:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brian.corr@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=5d28&.dnm=f4fd.jpg&.src=ph

anyone know if the japanese models have english menus?

For those guys that were discussing height and optimum distances these calculators might come in handy. Any thoughts? I myself am comfortable at the THX recommended distance.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html#anchor_13194

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/Verticalviewing.html


BTW, I can confirm that the zoom used can raise the image.

hat tip to mysphyt for the calculator

Does anybody know if the locations of the HC3000's mounting holes for a ceiling mount are identical to those on the HC100, HC900, XD400, XD450, and XD480 models? All of the units look the same. The latter five units can all be fitted with a Chief RPA-096 mount, but Chief website does not yet list the mount for the HC3000.

If the holes on the HC3000 are all the same as on the other models, I'll get the RPA-096 mount and start preparing my living room ceiling, so that I am ready when the PJ arrives.

Ales

anyone know if the japanese models have english menus?Well, the US English version has Japanese in the language options on the menu

Krosty,
That second link shows almost my exact seating positions.
14 feet 1st row, 20 feet 2nd row.
As you can see from the picture I would need the picture to be 28" above the floor, leaving only 9 inches from the ceiling after my 59" high screen. (8 foot ceiling) And from the offset including a 2-3 inch lens distance from the ceiling, 23" total to the top of the picture. Meaning I would have a 14" adjustment to make.
That's quite a lot of distance to make up somewhere between zooming and electronic vertical lens shift.
Thanks for the links.
I'm going to still see if I can figure a way for it to work.

Thaax

Well that was for an optimum 15 degrees with 10-20 degrees being acceptable.

I guess the real issue is seeing through the head of the person in front if you don't have staggered seating between the first and second rows.

Thread on screen mounting height with a poll

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531794

Ales,
the mitsubishi rep told me the hc3000 shares the same chasis as the hc900 so I'd bet the mounting holes are the same.

Thanks, Brian. I hate it when manufacturers don't state full specs in the manual. Seems to me this product is bought by people who know how to use this information and would find it helpful. What were the goons at Mitsubishi thinking?

Ales

Brian or Kosty,

Both of you are saying that the offset depends not only on the size of the image, but also on the degree of the zoom, right?

Suppose my goal is to have my 100" screen as close to the floor as possible (i.e., MAXIMIZE the offset). Do I achieve this by mounting the projector 143" from the screen and completely zooming in, or mounting it 174" from the screen and fully zooming out?

Ales

How does this PJ hold up against the optoma 78dc3? Does anyone know?

How does this PJ hold up against the optoma 78dc3? Does anyone know?

My thoughts exactly! This would be a most interesting comparison...

I have seen both, but not side by side or in similar conditions and I have had a lot more time to watch the HC3000.

IMHO the HC3000 has a comparable if not :eek: better :eek: picture. At any rate the picture quality is in the same ballpark. With the comparable picture the HC3000 is a lot less expensive.

It would be nice to see a side by side review.

The most significant thing the DC3 chip improved over the HD2+ DMD in was in more dark metal and slightly smaller dimple. This improved the contrast levels and ability to project deep black. Neither are real issues with the HC3000.

Also since the .65 WXGA 1280x768 DMD used in the HC3000 is a new generation chip it is unclear if these improvements were not actually included in the DMD but for marketing reasons Texas Instruments declined to call this a Darkchip 3 design.

HD2 and HD2+ were larger generation leaps than Darkchip2 HD2+ to Darkchip3.

At any rate, the HC3000 doesn't seem to suffer for the lack of Darkchip3 in it's specs.

Brian or Kosty,

Both of you are saying that the offset depends not only on the size of the image, but also on the degree of the zoom, right?

Suppose my goal is to have my 100" screen as close to the floor as possible (i.e., MAXIMIZE the offset). Do I achieve this by mounting the projector 143" from the screen and completely zooming in, or mounting it 174" from the screen and fully zooming out?

Ales

The offset is independent of the zoom, because the ratio of offset to screensize doesn't change, i.e. When you zoom to a smaller image on a ceiling mounted projector, the image moves up...likewise, when you zoom the picture larger, the image goes down on the screen (again for ceiling mount) so the offset for a 100" screen would be the same at either end of the zoom.

the new optoma h72 may be an alternative. it's a brillant color machine w/ the 1280x768 chip also. i don't know what the offset will be but i believe it is fixed. should cost a little less than the HC3000. i hope the offset is less. should be out at the end of the year or early 2006.

Any idea what type of color wheel that will have?

Does anyone know if the HC3000 will do the required vertical stretch or zoom of 2.35:1 material for "constant image height" set ups?

I am dissapointed that the review on PC wasn't more comprehensive. If the PJ isn't worth the time it takes to write the review, than say that and I will turn my search elsewhere. Now, I don't know what to think.

What about Deinterlacing/scaling, Brightness, Contrast, Brightness uniformity? What about how it pairs up with the AE900 or LCD PJs in general in this price range?

The big question for me is: what is the best of these three (HC3000, SP7205, or AE900)? Since I am partial to DLP, the real toss up would be between the HC3000 and the 7205, but I haven't completely ruled out LCD since they are making leaps and bounds.

BOTTOM LINE.... The throwing angle and zoom doesn't affect me at all. In fact, I would prefer it with my 9 1/2' ceiling. So, Is it a good pj????

The search is becoming frustrating.

I am dissapointed that the review on PC wasn't more comprehensive. If the PJ isn't worth the time it takes to write the review, than say that and I will turn my search elsewhere. Now, I don't know what to think.

What about Deinterlacing/scaling, Brightness, Contrast, Brightness uniformity? What about how it pairs up with the AE900 or LCD PJs in general in this price range?

The big question for me is: what is the best of these three (HC3000, SP7205, or AE900)? Since I am partial to DLP, the real toss up would be between the HC3000 and the 7205, but I haven't completely ruled out LCD since they are making leaps and bounds.

BOTTOM LINE.... The throwing angle and zoom doesn't affect me at all. In fact, I would prefer it with my 9 1/2' ceiling. So, Is it a good pj????

The search is becoming frustrating.


You took the words right out of my mouth rcrymes :)

I am dissapointed that the review on PC wasn't more comprehensive. If the PJ isn't worth the time it takes to write the review, than say that and I will turn my search elsewhere. Now, I don't know what to think.

What about Deinterlacing/scaling, Brightness, Contrast, Brightness uniformity? What about how it pairs up with the AE900 or LCD PJs in general in this price range?

The big question for me is: what is the best of these three (HC3000, SP7205, or AE900)? Since I am partial to DLP, the real toss up would be between the HC3000 and the 7205, but I haven't completely ruled out LCD since they are making leaps and bounds.

BOTTOM LINE.... The throwing angle and zoom doesn't affect me at all. In fact, I would prefer it with my 9 1/2' ceiling. So, Is it a good pj????

The search is becoming frustrating.I agree entirely. This review takes a few paragraphs to say virtually nothing.

That's funny, I thought the same thing too about the PC review. No measurements, no comparisons, and he harps on mounting options and placement limitations.
News flash!!! Every projector is going to have limitations in someones setup. Get over it and tell us something we don't already know. I'm looking forward to CKL's review so we can see some actual measurements!

IMO, there really isn't much contest between the 7205 and HC3000. The HC3000 is better in every way. Better blacks and shadow detail, quieter, cheaper, etc. etc. etc.

... I'm looking forward to CKL's review so we can see some actual measurements!


Please, don't forget Cine4home review due by the end of the week.

Does anyone know if the HC3000 will do the required vertical stretch or zoom of 2.35:1 material for "constant image height" set ups?


Does anyone know the answer to this ?

Saw it last night at CKL's setup. My short review: BUY IT! :D

Perfect color rendering is not there yet and I'm sure it will be fine after more tuning. Overall contrast (low lamp, close iris) is decent but not really exceptional IMO, and that's good enough for me.

And most important of all, it has the LEAST motion dithering artifact as far as I see on all 1-chip DLP, including 1-chip 1080p! And yes, IMO the motion dithering artifact is less than the Marantz S4.

Again, the LONG throw does not work in my small bed room. Mit really should think of a better throw (larger throw range) model.

regards,

Li On

Saw it last night at CKL's setup. My short review: BUY IT! :D

Perfect color rendering is not there yet and I'm sure it will be fine after more tuning. Overall contrast (low lamp, close iris) is decent but not really exceptional IMO, and that's good enough for me.

And most important of all, it has the LEAST motion dithering artifact as far as I see on all 1-chip DLP, including 1-chip 1080p! And yes, IMO the motion dithering artifact is less than the Marantz S4.

Again, the LONG throw does not work in my small bed room. Mit really should think of a better throw (larger throw range) model.

regards,

Li On


Li On......................Since you have seen both..........HC3000 or HS60?! :D

Really?! Then have you watch HC910 also?


Saw it last night at CKL's setup. My short review: BUY IT! :D

Perfect color rendering is not there yet and I'm sure it will be fine after more tuning. Overall contrast (low lamp, close iris) is decent but not really exceptional IMO, and that's good enough for me.

And most important of all, it has the LEAST motion dithering artifact as far as I see on all 1-chip DLP, including 1-chip 1080p! And yes, IMO the motion dithering artifact is less than the Marantz S4.

Again, the LONG throw does not work in my small bed room. Mit really should think of a better throw (larger throw range) model.

regards,

Li On

Forget HC910! Who need 1024x576 nowaday?

If one see no rainbow, and the HC3000 offset and throw works, then so be it! :D

regards,

Li On

Forget HC910! Who need 1024x576 nowaday?

If one see no rainbow, and the HC3000 offset and throw works, then so be it! :D

regards,

Li On

See rainbows now and then, can make the rest work........what are the outstanding qualities that make the HC3k superior to the HS-60 IYO....Thanks!

Better ANSI contrast, no auto iris annonying, much less screendoor, no convergence error, no VB, no LCD vertical motion scanline artifact, (much) better brightness/color uniformity, better long term reliability (guess!), brighter (high lamp or open iris).

Inexchange of 1-chip DLP rainbow (depends), tiny bit of 1-chip motion dithering, (much) less fixability in projector mounting/positioning.

regards,

Li On

Better ANSI contrast, no auto iris annonying, much less screendoor, no convergence error, no VB, no LCD vertical motion scanline artifact, (much) better brightness/color uniformity, better long term reliability (guess!), brighter (high lamp or open iris).

Inexchange of 1-chip DLP rainbow (depends), tiny bit of 1-chip motion dithering, (much) less fixability in projector mounting/positioning.

regards,

Li On


Hmmm.......food for thought! Thanks. Look forward to a compairson between these two units in production form. BTW what is the On/Of Cr on the HC3000 with the iris open?

Saw it last night at CKL's setup. My short review: BUY IT! :D

...

regards,

Li On

BUY IT!

Those two words coming from Li On are music to my ears ... placing an order right away!


Thank you Li On

Better ANSI contrast, no auto iris annonying, much less screendoor, no convergence error, no VB, no LCD vertical motion scanline artifact, (much) better brightness/color uniformity, better long term reliability (guess!), brighter (high lamp or open iris).

Agree! These are really the Pros of DLP compare to LCD.

anyone seen this HC3000 vs. PE7700? Curious on improvements there vs. any comparisons to LCD units.

I had the 7700 before I got the 3000. Left the 7700 up and added the 3000. The 3000 puts out a better pic, plain and simple.

The Projector Central review actually has me worried about this unit having a slightly artificial-looking picture, with boosted whites and overly bright colors. It mentions that this can be tamed by adjusting the contrast, but doesn't state how much effort he put into calibrating the projector.

What about fan noise?
Even though that offset is going to be a challenge for me to make it work, I'm looking for other reasons NOT to buy it. Come on guys I need more negatives. Fan is too loud? low mode, high mode?.

The Projector Central review actually has me worried about this unit having a slightly artificial-looking picture, with boosted whites and overly bright colors

The first unit I got actually had crushed whites no mather how I calibrated it. The one I have now is fine :)

Fan noise is almost silent in low mode. You can sit right underneath it with no problem. Much less than HC910. With any sound turned on the unit cannot be heard. On high mode the noise increases but you have to strain to hear it.

By using the AV memory function, you can save up to 3 settings of the IMAGE menu for each input. You can switch from User1 to User2 to User3 just by pressing on button on the remote. All that shows up on the screen is a very small menu on the extreme top right corner. There is almost no delay. So you can easily experiment and tweak by changing just one variable 3 ways and switching back and forth. Very user friendly. Best solution I have seen for tweaking.

White crush can be eliminated by tweaking. In some adjustments the BrilliantColor option will crush the whites, depending on the other variables.

To those of us that like to tweak and tweak and tweak, you will be living in hog heaven. To those of us that like to setup once and enjoy movies, initial setup can be relatively easy.

The only issue with this projector is the relatively restricted throw distance and fixed offset. For most people it won't matter. It is optimized for ceiling mount or for mounting on a low table. In any consumer product engineering choices have to be made. In the HC3000 they traded off the more limited options for setup, (which you only use once) to improve the quality of the picture (which you use every time you use it).

I've been told by Mitsubishi that they limited the lens offset to make sure the picture was optimized. The offset angle is optimized for users sitting in the first row. The remote is very functional but nothing special.

If it works in your setup, or if you can accomodate it, the picture is outstanding.

The cine4home.de review is due this week. They can probably find the other compromises. But they have already said in their preview review that they liked it and its a great value.

Why do you think the street price of the HC3000 is same as the MSRP, compared to the street prices of the AE900 and Z4 which are significantly lower?

Does Mitsu influence dealers that much in North America? or can we expect street prices to drop once its exclusivity on the TI Brilliant Color chip runs out?

Why do you think the street price of the HC3000 is same as the MSRP, compared to the street prices of the AE900 and Z4 which are significantly lower?


This is just a guess, but since the HC3000 is the first HD DLP projector under the $3000 mark, there probably isn't nearly as big a difference in dealer cost and MSRP. Mits probably wanted to up their popularity and make a bigger name for themselves by offering the first sub-$3000 HD DLP projector.

If I had to wager a guess I would say that Mitsubishi is staying on top of the internet dealers. I noticed two internet sites post the projector for 1/3 less then map only to move the price up a couple days later.

I predict that the HC3000 street price will probably stay near the MSRP for the next year until a successor Mitsubishi model comes out in 12-18 months.

The distribution channel is more limited and therefore controlled, especially with internet dealer pricing. I think Mitsubishi is trying to discourage discounting to insure some dealer margin. Mitsubishi can do this by controlling inventory allocation.

This is already starting to be a hot product with some dealers I know and there is little incentive to discount since the product performance is so relatively high for the below $3,000 US pricepoint. This is the first sub 3K DLP projecter that does what it does.

Select dealers will offer some deals such as a free bulb and extended service options, but mass discounting is probably unlikely.

That makes it a bit more expensive that the MSRP discounts you can get for the newer LCD's.

Like I said before, the HC3000 is the first PJ that really meets my performance wants/needs that is near a price I am willing to pay. For others those newer LCD's may give them the all picture they need for a cheaper price.

"This is just a guess, but since the HC3000 is the first HD DLP projector under the $3000 mark, there probably isn't nearly as big a difference in dealer cost and MSRP. Mits probably wanted to up their popularity and make a bigger name for themselves by offering the first sub-$3000 HD DLP projector"

Explain this.....I know of a number of 720P DLP projectors sub-$3k. Not challenging, just want to understand.

thx
Jim

AFAIK, the HC3000 is the first HD projector to retail for under $3k.

Everything said so far about street vs. msrp sounds valid, but I bet that street prices fall on the HC3000 as soon as Optoma releases their H72 competitor.

Here's another negative on the HC3000. My HC3000 has 7 Stuck/Dead Mirrors!!!

Knew I should of asked for a dead mirror check. Had always believed the cases of dead mirrors on DLP to be very rare.

Well maybe this is not the case with the new 1280x768 DMDs.???

Been getting to know my HC3000 over the last few days and have just noticed a dead mirror quite central on the screen. Only noticed it as I glanced at the screen briefly up close as I left the room.... now of course on bright scenes I can see it all the time now.. I think I will find this rather annoying!!!

Just to make sure I wasn't seeing things I then selected the white test screen from the menu and found even more dead/grayed out mirrors!!! About another 5 or 6. These were stuck a lighter grey as opposed to the dark grey on the most prominent one, and not as well defined, (grayness seemed to be centered on the gap/hinge between the mirror)

I then also tried the black screen, no pixels were stuck on white.

I have no idea what the return policy is on DLP PJs but I find this unacceptable and not something I could live with. The manual claims that ' this symptom is normal for DLP '

Can I send the HC3000 packing back to my retailer??? Or is this something I will have to put up with???

What is the policy with DLP projectors and dead mirrors/dmd defects??? Can this be projector be fixed or returned under warranty.

Hopefully my HC3000 is an isolated case but I'm surpised with the number of defects on the DMD in my HC3000.

Is this a sign of things to come? DLPs with pre-delivery mirrors checks? Has TI got a QA issue with this new DMD design. I for one really hope not.

Zags,

Check with the dealer you brought it from. Here in the US, most will swap out within 30 days. If it's been longer, you'll probably have to deal with mitsubishi. But again, here for the first 90 days, Mitsubishi promises an overnight swap (or something like that, I already forgot)

Stuck mirrors aren't the norm but it does happen. I had to send my Infocus 4805 in for 2 under warranty.

Cheer Brian

I've had it 3 days so far. Apart from the mirror problem it's been great up till now.
Just hope my retailer and/or Mitsubishi UK will replace it or sort it out.
That 1 dead mirror will make me stir crazy!!!

If I had to wager a guess I would say that Mitsubishi is staying on top of the internet dealers. I noticed two internet sites post the projector for 1/3 less then map only to move the price up a couple days later.

I've always wondered. Is MAP legal ?

I know several labels were targeted for anti-trust and finally settled ...

"This is just a guess, but since the HC3000 is the first HD DLP projector under the $3000 mark, there probably isn't nearly as big a difference in dealer cost and MSRP. Mits probably wanted to up their popularity and make a bigger name for themselves by offering the first sub-$3000 HD DLP projector"

Explain this.....I know of a number of 720P DLP projectors sub-$3k. Not challenging, just want to understand.

thx
Jim

Mitsubishi hasn't been that popular w/ front-projection. In order to put itself on the map it brought in newer features for improved performance and chose this price range to compete with the growing popularity of the newer LCDs. At this point, they seem ahead of the curve and above par for the price it offers (yet, not quite ready to lower). Unfortunately, I can see where they skimped on. I'm somewhat bothered ( :eek: negative!) by the spec'd colorwheel limited to only 6 segment 4x speed, as normally found in lower dlps.

How long before pricing begins to drop? Until we see competitors. The upcoming H72 will likely be less expensive and already offers almost the exact features w/ a much faster colorwheel at 7 segment 5x speed. I wonder though if the add'l white segment compensates for the white crush when BC is turned on. Another extra feature that may be helpful for users is their new dual digital input.

I still have till December to make a purchase decision. But so far, I really like what the Mits HC3000 offers. I'm just a bit wary of the rbe on the slower colorwheel...

Btw, that PC review didn't help me, at all. Most impresions coming from this thread had more weight.

According to the Texas Instrument guys I talked to at Cedia, dead pixels should be extremely rare as all without exception DMD's, or at least the newly manufactured ones, now released are now burned in for a time to find the dead pixels. They haven't always done that but because of improved yields TI can do this now.

In manufacturing they call this finding the infant mortality. So new DLP's should have few if any dead pixels.

If you are sure that you do have any and it bothers you, I would definately get a replacement. Visible dead pixels should not be normal for this projector.

The way I understand it is MAP is legal. But a vendor can sell an item for whatever they want, they just can't advertise it as such. That's why alot of places online have a lower price when you put something in your cart.
So retail on a widget might be $1500 and the map is $1299. But they may sell it for $699 once you put in your cart. They can sell it for $1 if they want. The final selling price is between a seller and buyer and no manuf. can dictate what that selling price is, only what the seller advertises it for. Alot of sellers will say "oh, I can' t sell it for less, the manuf. won't let me". That's BS, the manuf. can only dictate what an item is advertised for, they can't interfere with the actual sale price.

That's BS, the manuf. can only dictate what an item is advertised for, they can't interfere with the actual sale price.

Exactly. Otherwise, retailers wouldn't be able to have clearance blow-out sales at super-reduced prices to get rid of old unsold stock.

In Hong Kong the MSRP is around $2500. Street price maybe a bit lower.

I'll try to check if a DC wide adaptor such as the Olympus WCON-07 work with the projector. If so then the throw can be reduce to around 1.15x screen width and it may work in my small bedroom.

regards,

Li On

Mitsubishi hasn't been that popular w/ front-projection. In order to put itself on the map it brought in newer features for improved performance and chose this price range to compete with the growing popularity of the newer LCDs. At this point, they seem ahead of the curve and above par for the price it offers (yet, not quite ready to lower). Unfortunately, I can see where they skimped on. I'm somewhat bothered ( :eek: negative!) by the spec'd colorwheel limited to only 6 segment 4x speed, as normally found in lower dlps.

How long before pricing begins to drop? Until we see competitors. The upcoming H72 will likely be less expensive and already offers almost the exact features w/ a much faster colorwheel at 7 segment 5x speed. I wonder though if the add'l white segment compensates for the white crush when BC is turned on. Another extra feature that may be helpful for users is their new dual digital input.

I still have till December to make a purchase decision. But so far, I really like what the Mits HC3000 offers. I'm just a bit wary of the rbe on the slower colorwheel...

Btw, that PC review didn't help me, at all. Most impresions coming from this thread had more weight.


The H72 will have the Farouja chip also. They're working on a fixed Iris to match up with the high brightness the 7th segment white section will add. Shooting for high contrast. Can't wait to test it.

The time has come--I'm buying the Mitsu tomorrow. I'm also planning to get a custom built screen for it: 98 inch 15:9 Carada grey (16:9 image on the screen will be 96.5 diagonal inches). I figure the projector is bright enough for a 98" screen, and should be able to handle the grey.

Does any of the HC3000 owners use it with grey screen material? Should I go with pure white for the 98" screen size? (My living room has white walls, which worries me with respect to a white screen.)

Ales

Grey screen use

The HC3000 is a light cannon and could easily blast a 136 inch white screen. Obviously the bigger you go the less light output you get per square foot of screen.

But, on the subject of the grey screen, projector central calculator recommends a .9 gain screen for the HC3000 at a 106 inch screen. I not sure if that is too agressive for a low gain screen.

I last saw the HC3000 on a Draper High Grey Cineperm 92 inch screen with about .9 head on gain. As my comments above showed, I really liked that combination. Maybe you could go much bigger with a grey screen. I dunno.

If you have a head on viewing (within 20-30 degree viewing angle) with most grey screens some say you wouldn't lose much gain, but you would increase contrast and could cut some ambient light. I have using the HC3000 with a friend who prefers a more deep cinema image with slightly darker images than I do. But at that combination 92 grey screen and low lamp the image is outstanding. I also liked it on a 92 inch white screen we tried.

My new theater room is not completed but I am planning to use a 106 inch white screen with 1.3 gain. I know the larger screen will get slightly dimmer and my friends prefer a brighter image. I also will have side curtains that will cut out reflections.

So I like 92 grey, 92 white and think I like 106 white. The projector is bright enough and black levels so deep so that you should be able to overcome any white wall reflection on a 98 inch screen.

I personally would go with a white screen at 98 inches if you have controlled lighting even if you white walls. I would only go with grey if you thought you needed deeper black. I would not go with grey solely to limit the ambient reflection off white walls.

But the settings are flexible enough so that you can probably make a grey screen look almost like the white screen if you increase the contrast or change the gamma curves.

BTW you know we all are looking forward to your first impressions and review! ;)

Good luck :D

Another user review from ProjectorCentral.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinion of Ian Zaczyk - Nov 14, 2005

Personal Experience
A great projector which although fairly inflexible when it comes to mounting location is worth the effort. A few hours work to mount it on the ceiling is hardly a big deal.

At the end of the day if your room can accomodate this PJ and you are not prone to rainbows this PJ is unbeatable at the moment for bang for buck.

Deep Blacks, excellent colours with or without Brilliant Color Enabled, and a very smooth stable picture with less screendoor than most of the new D5 Panel, equipped LCD Projectors.

Overall very impressed with this PJ, it throws a fantastic high contrast picture giving more detail in very dark scenes than I've ever seen before. It also does this whilst keeping whites bright. http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HC3000.htm

The way I understand it is MAP is legal. But a vendor can sell an item for whatever they want, they just can't advertise it as such. That's why alot of places online have a lower price when you put something in your cart.
So retail on a widget might be $1500 and the map is $1299. But they may sell it for $699 once you put in your cart. They can sell it for $1 if they want. The final selling price is between a seller and buyer and no manuf. can dictate what that selling price is, only what the seller advertises it for. Alot of sellers will say "oh, I can' t sell it for less, the manuf. won't let me". That's BS, the manuf. can only dictate what an item is advertised for, they can't interfere with the actual sale price.

You are correct however the manufacture can and will simply refuse to sell to dealers who violate MAP or who sell so cheap that other dealers complain.

I have been waiting on more info on this projector before purchasing. I currently use an Optoma H56, and love the picture. My dilemma is that I can get a used H79 for approximately the same price as the mits 3k (although the bulb has 400 hours).
My application as it stands now will be in a dedicated theater room with controllable light, but on a 133" screen. I currently have the hipower and like it, but its a LITTLE dark with the h56 and a bulb with 700 hours. Not unwatchable at all, but it really needs to be very dark if watching dark material.

THese are the things I would like to gain by upgrading, in order of priority -
*Brighter output. I was VERY disappointed that the PC review did not include their usual real world lumen output figures, so I could compare them with the Optoma.
*better gray scale. The H56 puts out dark blacks, but at the expense o slightly crushing the contrast - shadow detail is lost.
*Higher resolution, which either would give
*digital signal path - ditto
quiter fan

So - any of you well versed in these two have comments? WOuld either be a significant step up from my H56? Which would YOU buy? I have alos considered the iInfocus 7205, mostly for the stated brightness increase, but I've heard the picture is not quite that of the H79 (and maybe the Mits 3k), and its more expensive.
Thanks

TSO

I would wait until the end of this week for the cine4home.de review. They should have some solid numbers. But stats can be misleading.

The HC3000 picture certainly can blast 133 inches in a controlled room on a white screen with superior contrast and color to most DLP's, IMHO regardless of price.

I am not sure about head to head with the H79 in your application. But new is better than used? Why is the H79 being sold with only 400 hours?

The HC3000 is a SIGNIFICANT step up and noone has had a complaint about the picture so far. Fan is very quiet, even overhead. First DLP with 1024 levels of grey.

Just curious whether anyone is seeing a difference between the HDMI or Component connections to the projector. I am debating between two different dvd players one w/ and w/o hdmi. Also, what DVD players are you guys using with this projector?

I wonder why CKL hasn't reported his findings ?

Kosty: I ordered it this morning. It will arrive on Thursday. I'll do some testing over the weekend. I currently have a 4:3 Carada screen with grey material on it, but I also have the white material in my closet (I bought both materials 2 years ago because I wasn't sure which one would work better with my Mitsu XD300). I'll let you know.

Checking for stuck mirrors?

My HC3000 return policy allows for a full refund if the lamp has fewer than 4 hours on it. I'd like to use the first few moments to check for stuck mirrors. I'm planning to:

1) hook up the PJ to my notebook via a VGA cable; set resolution to 1280x768
2) display pure BLACK image
3) display pure WHITE image
4) display pure RED image
5) display pure GREEN image
6) display pure BLUE image

Will this uncover all stuck mirrors?

Ales

The H72 will have the Farouja chip also. They're working on a fixed Iris to match up with the high brightness the 7th segment white section will add. Shooting for high contrast. Can't wait to test it.

hey Tom,

With new added features do you presume the H72 performance level will exceed that of the H79’s? The Mits HC3000 already seems to be reflecting that effect based from current user experiences.

I hate to be in a win-win situation here. ;)

Anyone knows the range of the extension on the Mitsubishi Ceiling Mount?. Part# PROJ-UCM. Can't find it anywhere.

The way I understand it is MAP is legal. But a vendor can sell an item for whatever they want, they just can't advertise it as such. That's why alot of places online have a lower price when you put something in your cart.
So retail on a widget might be $1500 and the map is $1299. But they may sell it for $699 once you put in your cart. They can sell it for $1 if they want. The final selling price is between a seller and buyer and no manuf. can dictate what that selling price is, only what the seller advertises it for. Alot of sellers will say "oh, I can' t sell it for less, the manuf. won't let me". That's BS, the manuf. can only dictate what an item is advertised for, they can't interfere with the actual sale price.

I still don't understand how MAP can be dictated by the manufacturer. Has this been ever tested in courts ... ?

Edit :

Minimum Advertised Price Program (http://www.fredlaw.com/articles/marketing/mark_0401_qtj.html)

Looks like internet relatd MAP is not tested in court ... and earlier when B&M was tested some have been ruled illegal and others not. IANAL, but it looks to me like if someone is not involves in a co-op ad program, MAP is illegal.

Some of the early court decisions on MAP or other price advertising restrictions viewed them as just another form of minimum resale price control, automatically unlawful under antitrust law. Other decisions upheld programs that would not reimburse for ads including resale prices below the MAP level, but did allow channel members to advertise any price as long as they paid for that advertising themselves.

The FTC Guidelines state (http://www.ftc.gov/bc/compguide/illegal.htm):

"Resale price maintenance agreements. Vertical price-fixing -- an agreement between a supplier and a dealer that fixes the minimum resale price of a product -- is a clear-cut antitrust violation. It also is illegal for a manufacturer and retailer to agree on a minimum resale price."

"The antitrust laws, however, give a manufacturer latitude to adopt a policy regarding a desired level of resale prices and to deal only with retailers who independently decide to follow that policy. A manufacturer also is permitted to stop dealing with a retailer who breaches the manufacturer’s resale price maintenance policy. That is, the manufacturer can adopt the policy on a 'take it or leave it' basis."

The distinction is very fine and really concerns the idea of an "agreement" (called "conspiracy" in the Sherman Act) versus a "take it or leave it" offer. I know this has many people up in arms, but what Mitsubishi is doing in this case is very similar to, say, McDonald's behavior. McDonald's headquarters can dictate the prices that their own outlets charge and nobody considers it illegal. After all, the outlets and the headquarters are all part of a single company. If Mitsubishi had company outlets around the U.S., I bet you would see all the outlets charging a uniform price.

In practice, the relevant question is whether you, as a consumer, have alternatives. There are plenty of other projector manufacturers around with whom (presumably) Mitsubishi is not colluding. That is, while we are witnessing the lack of within-brand competition, we see across-brand competition. This weighs heavily on whether Mitsubishi's behavior is considered illegal.

Ales

Has any one had to deal with Mitsubishi concerning warranty issues? Maybe owners of RP tv's? I Just another thing to consider before I decide.

I own a Mitsu XD300U. Last summer, I sent it to Mitsubishi's repair facility in Southern California because one of the fans on the unit was making a rattling noise. I sent the PJ to them on Monday and received it on Saturday morning. The problem was fixed. It cost me a 2-day FedEx shipping charge.

They offered me the possibility of an instant exchange, but it would have involved my card being charged for the extra projector they would have shipped me in the meantime. I opted to give up mine and live without it for a week.

All in all, I had a good experience.

Ales

I wonder why CKL hasn't reported his findings ?


What findings do you mean?

I thought you might be doing a review on this one also. My fault !

The H72 will have the Farouja chip also. They're working on a fixed Iris to match up with the high brightness the 7th segment white section will add. Shooting for high contrast. Can't wait to test it.

Is the white segment part of the official BrilliantColor color wheel design, or is that something Optoma is adding? I thought it was supposed to be red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, and yellow.

The only thing still keeping me on the fence about the HC3000 is the RGBRGB wheel. I'm thinking it may be worth my while to just stick it out and wait for a comparable unit with the full implementation of BrilliantColor. The H72 sounds like that may be it, but I'm not thrilled with the sound of a white segment either.

http://www.dlp.com/about_dlp/about_dlp_press_release.asp?id=1260

From TI about BC Through greater flexibility in color processing, customers can expand beyond the red, green, and blue color palette and include yellow, magenta and cyan, which allow for more realistic and lifelike color reproductionTexas Instruments is giving the OEM's the flexibility to implement the BC algorithm. I was suprised that the HC3000 does colors as good as it does without the multiprimary wheel.

I think you'll see more projectors next year or after have the RGBCMY colorwheel. Technology marches on. The HC3000 is on the street now, and works even though it doesn't have the extra segments. If you can wait 3-6 months to be at the same stage with the H72, stick around, but there will always be something better 6 months out.

The use of the extra segments has compromises too, so it's all a case of engineering tradeoffs. The HC3000 is built on the well tested well reviewed HC900 physical platform so the changes were focused on the image. Who knows what the future brings? Or how well newer projectors fit their compromises together.

For me the HC3000 crosses a threshold of price/performance. I like that the engineering compromises focused on improving the image and limititing the setup options. And it fits my point in the buying cycle.

When is the H72 expected to hit the street, and is it an upgrade of another Optoma platform?

I thought you might be doing a review on this one also. My fault !

Yes, I will write a detail review on HC3000. But I have to complete the review on Marantz DV9600 first. I have completed the first stage of test/measure/calibrate. But I want to tweak it with filter at high bright mode. So the review on HC3000 will be deferred. Tell you a secret, I've ordered one HC3000 for myself. :D

You really take my advice! :D

regards,

Li On

CKL,

Price, brightness and SDE aside, addressable by opening the wallet a bit more, using a screen with gain & sitting a bit further! I know this is a moot point since you have purchased the HC3000, but considering the above would the added ANSI in an average room(white ceilings, light coloured carpet & furnishings) be enough to sway you to advise a prospective purchaser towards the HC3000 or towards the HS60?

This person will be sitting 2.35 screen widths away, viewing on a 92" diagonal 2+X gain screen. Will use a ND filter if need be........and presently leaning toward the HS60, find 1 chip DLP fatiguing to watch at times. However do like Si-Fi, starfields with black sky!.....will put up with 1 Chip dlp if need be!!!!

Do advise! :)

The problem of LCD is there are too much differences between units. If you're 100% sure your draw of luck then you'll get the perfect HS60 with no VB, no screendoor (kidding!), perfect conergence, perfect color/brightness uniformity, and even zero color burn and no dust blob in long term usage!

Otherwise there is not much not to like the HC3000 unless you see rainbow or get headache/fatiguing with 1-chip DLP.

And if you're both unlucky and can't stand 1-chip DLP, there is not much advice we can give! :D

regards,

Li On

I'm really looking forward to your filtertweak CKL (and Li On?) Are you expecting to reach the 4000:1 mark?

I was home the weekend but did not really have much time to look at the offset.

My ceiling is definately high enough but there is a lower part of the ceiling infront.

Here is a picture.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/7429872Picture_181.jpg


I can definately move the screen down a few inches, I am just worried if I move the projector up much higher that lower part of the ceiling will block the image.

Saw it last night at CKL's setup. My short review: BUY IT! :D


... Tell you a secret, I've ordered one HC3000 for myself. :D

Seems to me (IMHO) the HS3000 may end up becoming the projector equivalent of the RP82 DVD player about five years ago....

Does anyone know if the HC3000 will do the required vertical stretch or zoom of 2.35:1 material for "constant image height" set ups?

Anybody???
I am planning to use the 3000 in a "CIH" set-up (picking up the PJ on Friday and the lens is ordered), but the online user's manual is kinda fuzzy on this. It is clear that a couple of the stretch/zoom modes are unavailable with a 480i signal and none of them are with 720p, but all modes are available with 480p/576p. It's just not clear, to me anyway, what they do to the image.
Would one of you lucky 3000 owners please tell me if you can verticaly stretch a 480p 2.35:1 image to fit the 16x9 panel?

I'm really, really close to pulling the trigger, but this offset issue is worrying me. I have eight foot ceilings and want to throw a 118" image, however; I would like the bottom of the screen to be around 20" from the ground. With this size image and a ceiling mount, is it feasible? The answer to this question will ultimately decide my fate. Thanks for everyone's input on this unit.

diegolifer:

A 118 inch 16:9 image is 103" wide and 58" tall. According to the manual, the offset on a 118" image is 17.5 inches. You require the screen to be 20" from the floor.

20" + 58" + 17.5" = 95.5"

This is too close to 8 feet (also ignoring the width of the screen frame). You won't be able to use the HC3000 unless you are willing to compromise one of your requirements.

So, what is the allowable distance from the ceiling? Say, 90"? Or is this still too close to the ceiling?

Guys,

Hope you can help out here. I haven't gone through the complete thread, but I'm pretty sure this hasn't been asked. Ben Harper (AVSer) recommended this machine for my setup, and from what I've read, sounds like a great option me. The only concern I have is with the offset. I've reviewed the specs online at

http://www.mitsubishi-hometheater.com/pdf/MIT_DATAHC3000U_R3.pdf

and I'm trying to figure out what the offset is. Its not clear to me from the document. From what I can tell, if I'm projecting a 100" image from about 13 feet, do I lose 16.9 inches from the ceiling? This does not factor in the mount either, so its closer to 24" (assuming a 7" mount) when all is said and done. So if you've got 8 foot ceilings, the top of your projected image is 6 feet, correct?

Just wanted to verify for planning purposes for my screen wall.

Thanks,

Bud

EDIT: GEEZ! I started the reply a few hours ago and just submitted it. I guess I'm not the only one with the question!

diegolifer ; you can always tilt it a little, after you figure out your placements. Many installations require some compromise. There is always the keystone adjustment, or just living with a little overscan, is not the end of the world. I'm sure you'd be much more dissapointed if you spent $2 -$3 k and had problems with a bad picture. The hc3000 seems to be a steal for it's pic quality . Find a dealer that will take it back,if you can't make it work.

Also, is the manual online? I haven't been able to find it, just the spec document I listed above.

Thanks,

Bud

Bud:

When coffe table mounted, offset is defined as the distance between the lens axis and the bottom of the projected image. (It follows that when mounted, offset is the distance between the lens axis and the top of the projected image.)

This distance does NOT include the ceiling mount or the height of the projector itself. Check the manual out. It contains a much better explanation.

http://bobby.filipi.info/public/HC3000_manual.pdf

Ales

Ales,

Thanks for the response and link. From the manual it looks to be 16.5 inches plus whatever you loose with the mount, which is what I was expecting.

Bud

Why are there owners with stuck mirrors and why is there already an hc 3000 at Ebay with no warranty thats supposedly new in box?

"Why are there owners with stuck mirrors and why is there already an hc 3000 at Ebay with no warranty thats supposedly new in box?

Because it's a machine,and it's made by humans ! :)

A Question for owners, and those that have actually seen the HC3000.
Other than price. What makes this projector unique, or better among other projectors you have seen?
Thanks,

I fired up the projector last night. The picture is excellent. Motion artifacts are almost gone. Even with a 480i signal through component (analog) the blacks are blacker. I thought sending the interlaced signal from my Panasonic XP30 and let the projector de-interlace/scale gives smoother picture than sending a progressive signal. The picture is definitely more 3D like. The only problem I can find is with whites. May be there is some white crush. Then again, I am projecting on a 100" da-lite high power from 14'. I need to fix brightness/contrast with DVE tonight.

I have a 18' ceiling. I am thinking of going 133" diagonal. I am going to mount it in the back wall. I haven't figured out how. Any suggestions?

Why are there owners with stuck mirrors and why is there already an hc 3000 at Ebay with no warranty thats supposedly new in box?

At least no one is reporting panning or re-sync issues.:rolleyes:

muncey

Other than price. What makes this projector unique, or better among other projectors you have seen?Low noise. No stray light. No cleaning required with on side filter.

Ease of Tweaking. ( See my comments above) Very easy to switch between user saved video options and therefore see what a small change can do to the picture) For example you can set up user 1 and user 2 the same except one has one variable changed. One botton push on the remote and zap back and forth you can see the difference.

Deep black with shadow detail and bright whites can coexist at same time.

Rich shades of reds, pinks and purples can coexist with realistic skin tones.

Grass looks real on HD sports.

Less DLP artifacts such as mosquito noise seen.

RBE not an issue ( maybe because of increased 10 bit greyscale or the BrilliantColor algorithm). I am not a really great judge of this because it doesn't bother me, I can see them when I really try , and I haven't been able to , but several other more RBE sensitive people I have talked to have said this is the first DLP that they can't find rainbows in.

At least no one is reporting panning or re-sync issues.:rolleyes:

muncey

Don't understand this..... the 78/79's have zero panning issues that I have ever seen. or even heard about..zero white crush issues...zero dead pixel issues and they were not sold on Ebay until many months after being released.....and not at half off list price ever.

So lets not get pissy muncey :rolleyes:

The only re-sync issue I am aware of is were the pj's resync to pc color levels instead of video color levels when there first powered up.....which to a few...is considered an issue to have to push the re-sync button.

Has anyone done a direct comparison to the H-78DC3 under calibrated conditions before trying to insinuate that the 3000 might offer a superior picture?

who's getting pissy. i think the mitsubishi is gaining a good reputation on the forum. please don't come to this thread with this stuff about ebay sales of the hc3000 as they are irrevelant. all in all the mitsubishi seems like a nice machine and many here are happy with it. i wasn't "trying to insinuate that the 3000 might offer a superior picture?" as i have not seen either, have you? Have a nice day.

it's my story and i'll tell it however i want

muncey

Muncey....the fact that there are reports of Stuck mirrors, a just released 3000 at ebay, and more than one report of white crush.....plus a review were there waiting for another unit for how long and not saying why?????

This is all relevant no matter how much of a giant slayer of a dlp....the 3000 may or may not turn out to be.

Are all 4x color wheel's created equal? i.e. if I don't see rainbows on an Optoma with a 4x wheel, I WON'T see rainbows in the HC3000?

and after that brief word from our sponsor, now back to our regurally scheduled program.

muncey

Muncey....the fact that there are reports of Stuck mirrors, a just released 3000 at ebay, and more than one report of white crush.....plus a review were there waiting for another unit for how long and not saying why?????

This is all relevant no matter how much of a giant slayer of a dlp....the 3000 may or may not turn out to be.

For stuck mirrors blame TI.
Someone is going to be ripped off by crooks at ebay. Blame the seller.
White crush can be easily fixed.
For late reviews, blame the reviewers since they the not saying "why."

On paper, HC3000 should have less motion artifacts because of faster ASIC chip DDP3020. Also, HC3000 should have wider color spectrum with 10 bit signal processing and hdmi input. Imagine the excitement if it turns out to be true.

Just let me enjoy my new investment.

Dragon,
Short answer is no. There's more to it than just the speed. The actual color's on the wheel and the brightness also play a role in RBE.

Earz,
Lets please not take one instance of something and turn it into "there are reports of". One person had stuck mirrors, white crush is usually a calibration issue and 1 on ebay, jesus, people will sell their kidney's on ebay if they could....

:)

"and 1 on ebay, jesus, people will sell their kidney's on ebay if they could.... "

or their soiled under pants, and people will buy it!

muncey

I should not buy a Harmony 880 either cause they are all over EBAY!! :D Wholly cow and I thought it was a nice device.... But since heaps are being sold for less than retail on ebay I should steer clear. To think..... I nearly bought one!!

Are all 4x color wheel's created equal? i.e. if I don't see rainbows on an Optoma with a 4x wheel, I WON'T see rainbows in the HC3000? Well the HC3000 is getting a reputation as having less RBE than many other DLP's so you probably won't see rainbows with the HC3000, if you don't with lower priced optoma.

That being said, not all 4x color wheels are created equal. The HC3000 has a red green blue red green blue wheel with extra large red segments. That color wheel has to interact with the other processing components.

The HC3000's video processor and the newer 3020 ASIC processor which controls the coordination of the spinning wheel with the micromirrors turning on and off, the HC3000's 1024 levels of greyscale (10 bit) instead of a 256 level (8 bit) and the faster LVDS memory on the .065 DMD may all contribute to having less rainbows. The ability to reduce over crushing whites may also reduce rainbows.

cripes you guys are quick :D 5 posts up as I was typing my response!

well after 6 user reviews (projector central) the hc3000 is getting a 4.9 rating, vs a 4.6 for the h79 with the hand picked components. i just wish mitsubishi could of put a lens shift on it, the offset won't work for my setup. i'm not bashing the h78/79 at all as that is on my list of possible upgrade candidates along with the H81 and H72. also the new infocus projectors look nice.

muncey

I'm doing it.. I'm picking up the phone right now!

For all of those worried about the big offset (and may have missed my post earlier in this thread), look at my post here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6491696&&#post6491696 and specifically look at the next reply to my question. I'm hoping to overcome the offset issue using this proposed mechanism.

well after 6 user reviews (projector central) the hc3000 is getting a 4.9 rating, vs a 4.6 for the h79 with the hand picked components. i just wish mitsubishi could of put a lens shift on it, the offset won't work for my setup. i'm not bashing the h78/79 at all as that is on my list of possible upgrade candidates along with the H81 and H72. also the new infocus projectors look nice.

muncey

Projector Central were the ae 900 is as good as the H-78 :rolleyes: ....or here at AVS were not a single person whos seen both agrees with this ;) .
I would rather hear from Avs members direct than to trust PC...but I am all for a 3k giant killer from any manufacture....as long as it doesn't come with a bunch of QC issues in exchange.

I am partial to DLP...but not to any brand and forgot how sensitive this forum can be about there purchases :)

Maybe we will see 1080p for 3-4k street by this time next year.....thats my story anyway ;)

this is from user reviews on pc! and don't get me going on problems with the optoma line.

muncey

kosty,

thanks for your inputs on the color wheel speed and the design, relatvie to rbe. now the tough part is where to see the pj for myself; my other option is the panny 900/sony 51-61. love the optoma h78 but the price.

this is from user reviews on pc! and don't get me going on problems with the optoma line.

muncey

Like I said....I would rather hear what AVS members have to say......right here.....were there more likely to be straight up.....and we can easily see what experience they have with other PJ'S ect in the past.

Anyone that had a 480p pj.....just for instance.....is going to be in love with any 720p pj. ;)

i'm done.

muncey

I think you'll see more projectors next year or after have the RGBCMY colorwheel. Technology marches on. The HC3000 is on the street now, and works even though it doesn't have the extra segments. If you can wait 3-6 months to be at the same stage with the H72, stick around, but there will always be something better 6 months out.

That's certainly true, but I am still relatively satisfied with my current projector that I could hold out for 6 months if I thought it was worth it.

The use of the extra segments has compromises too, so it's all a case of engineering tradeoffs.

Compromises like what?

IT'S DEAD !!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


So I picked it up this afternoon after quite an ordeal that I won't go into right now and rush home to play with it like a little kid on Christmas morning. I was grinning from ear to ear as I temporarily set it on a coffee table so that I can see what it could do. Very impressive pic. and I am quite pleased with my new toy at this moment. About 10 minutes into watching ESPN HD I hear a loud POP and the pic. is GONE !!!! I try to turn it on and nothing. I shake the PJ and hear something loose in there. I call my HT dealer and they will have one overnighted for me tomorrow. Somewhat disappointed but still optimistic about my new PJ. Hope this is an isolated situation and won't happen to anyone else. Back to the RPTV for now I guess. :(

I didn't completely pull the trigger, but I plan to order tomorrow morning.

I was talking to a retailer out of Oregon. He has the HC3000, SP7210 and the PLV-Z4 set up in his showroom. I wish I lived closer to Oregon. I would love to see all of those PJs in action.

He seemed to be very knowledgable. He said the picture is better than the 7205, but MAYBE not quite as good as the 7210. The 7210 was brighter with slightly better contrast. However, he did mention that the 3000 had less motion artifacts than both the 7205 and 7210.

He also said that the 3000 beats the PLV-Z4 hands down. He said there was no aspect of the Z4 that he can think of that would outshine the 3000. He said he hasn't seen the AE900 in action, so he couldn't make an honest comparison.

Like I said, I am planning on ordering tomorrow. They have a 7 day / 8 lamp hour return policy. I plan on putting this PJ to every test I can think of during that time. Ideas are welcome.

He also said that Mitsubishi has a great warantee. If you have any problem during the first two years. You call Mitsubishi, give them a credit card number, and they will overnight a new PJ to you. As long as they receive the broken PJ in the mail, your card won't be charged. That sounds pretty darn nice to me.

I feel my search has ended. I just hope I am making the right decision. I will take pictures of my progress and post them when I have a chance. If anyone wants to know more info on this retailer, PM me as I don't want to break any rules here.

For all of those worried about the big offset (and may have missed my post earlier in this thread), look at my post here
Xander, thanks. I have a few things to explore and that may be another option.

All,

Maybe you can see something I can't. I put this sketch together a while back when I was thinking of the AE700. It basically lays out the different options for mounting the projector based on my room characteristics.


http://images12.fotki.com/v253/photos/6/649633/2311872/Projectormount2-vi.jpg

There is a fourth option not drawn, which would be to install the projector in the soffit. That would give the additional height I'm looking for. Due to the offset, I really loose the ability to install under the soffit because the top of the image is then roughly two feet from the bottom of the soffit. For a 100" screen, that's 49" tall, which means the bottom of the image is 24" off the floor. That's with no stage.

I think my two best options are to mount if from the main ceiling or install in the soffit. Installing in the soffit though may be an issue due to ventilation. Same with a hush box, since the projector is front venting and supposedly quite anyway. Can this projector install on a shelf?

Bud

Bud, you're setup is not unlike mine. I really do not think you need a hush box with the HC3000, so I think you can discard that from all your options. How about mounting it upside down on a bracket in the position you indicate with your option 3, but with the lens about 2' from the rear, giving you a throw distance of around 17'. That would give a picture of around 125" diagonal (you can zoom in or out a bit). You then tilt the projector up (as indicated in my drawing) to get the image positioned vertically where you want it. You may also need to tilt the top of the screen forward by a few inches, but that should not be too difficult. This is basically what I'm planning on doing.

ps. if you think that you might bump the projector with your head when standing up from the couch, you could still move it right back (almost) against the wall, giving around an 18' throw.

With regard to ceiling mounting, exactly how close to the ceiling can you mount this projector? I have to squeeze out as much vertical space as possible to get the screen size I want, but still don't want to order unless I'm very sure. Technically, could you mount this directly to the ceiling?

Has any one seen this projector in action? how is the colors in NTSC and ATSC
someone told me that the color green look lime green :rolleyes: . Can someone verify this.
Thank you.

Glen :)

Bud,

You still in the construction phase?!!!

Skip the hushbox, it's totally unnecessary. As far as arrangement, if not extreme a little tilt to the projector can be corrected with trapezoidal and keystone correction. I doubt many people would ever notice a picture quality difference.

We are pushing these things pretty hard because of the bang for the buck. I'm sure I can drop one off for you to try within the next few weeks. Bottom line is that placement can be a little tricky, but you only do it once and the picture is phenominal.

Ben

Ben,

Construction, whats that? Sent you a few PMs. Would like to finalize on the machine once I can be convinced I won't lose the screen height. I would think I would only need it for an hour or two. The hush box was more for hiding the AE700 rather than the noise when I drew up the diagram.

Can this machine placed hign on a shelf or is it restricted to a ceiling mount and table mount?

Thanks dude.

Bud

Xander,

Thanks for the reply. I can only go maybe 100 or 106 inches tops. I have only a little more than 11 feet of width to work with. With the HC3000, to get that throw, looks like I'll have to mount in the 12-14 foot range, which is fine since it'll be at the front of the riser. Even so, it wouldn't be any lower than about 7'4" from the top of the riser. Shaq and I are not on speaking terms, so no problem there.

Thanks,

Bud

Bud,

Mounting it in the trey is a great option. It's no problem with the front vent, and it should all but eliminate any noise (which is not a problem anyways). I always prefer a trey mount option as I believe it looks much cleaner.

Ben

Ben,

Yeah, I think it looks cleaner as well. So that leads to my other question, is it mounted in the soffit upside down with a ceiling mount? Do you carve out a hole for jsut the lense or do you leave the front open? I still have the bottom of that soffit open where the projector would go, so I can easily modify whatever I need. Lookign forward to seeing this puppy in action.

Bud

Has any one seen this projector in action? how is the colors in NTSC and ATSC
someone told me that the color green look lime green :rolleyes: . Can someone verify this.
Thank you.

You posted this question on page 23 of this thread. I'd recommend you actually read back a few pages to see all the previous answers to questions like this.

Bud,

The entire front has to be exposed, so cut a hole in the facia slightly larger than the projector face. Also, it will have to rest upside down, either from a ceiling mount or on a "shelf" within the soffit. Since you have the bottom of the soffit exposed, I would use a ceiling mount for ease of alignment. Then, make a removable mdf panel for the bottom of the soffit for future access.

Should look professional - just like the rest of your basement! BTW, you did plan on covering those windows didn't you? It's a bright projector, but not that bright.

Ben

Ben,

Got it. That's what I was thinking. Can you recommend a mount for the 3000? The windows will be gone in the near future. It's nice to have the light in there while I'm working.

Bud

Well, it will be here tommorrow! Wish me luck.

The trigger is pulled......... I should get it before Thanks giving or the Monday after. Its going to be torchure, but I'll make it.

The rep. from where I bought it from offered to split the overnight charge, so I took it. I figure I'll be home all weekend playing with it, which means I won't be going out spending my money on booze and cheap women, so in reality, I'm saving money! Right? Just don't tell my girl.

I could have overnighted it, but I really have a ton of preparation to do before it's arrival.

anyone...can this PJ do the 2:35 well??? what lens best for this setup? I see people ask but maybe I've missed the answer????? HELP

anyone...can this PJ do the 2:35 well??? what lens best for this setup? I see people ask but maybe I've missed the answer????? HELP http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=603102

There is a thread started on this in the 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat Forum

Can someone lead me to the manual for the hc3000. I know it's here somewhere. Thanks.

Can someone lead me to the manual for the hc3000. I know it's here somewhere. Thanks.

http://bobby.filipi.info/public/HC3000_manual.pdf

Bud

Thanks, dog! Do you currently have a hc3000?

Not yet, but leaning that way. Will hopefully demo one in the next few weeks if Ben can get me one. If its a go, I'll have to probably make some mounting adjustments to my HT room to accommodate it, but not a real problem.

Bud

Can someone lead me to the manual for the hc3000. I know it's here somewhere. Thanks.

Page 12, post 341.

So when is Mitsubishi going to be shipping these in full force? I ordered one November 1 and it is still back ordered. I was hoping to have it before Thanksgiving but that is doubtful.

Talked to my supplier on wed. and he said they are readily available now. Their first shipment sold in a day (mine was one of them). He said now they've got more in and it doesn't look like a problem getting more.
Might just be a case of who you ordered it from having trouble getting them.

I guess that is what I get for buying on the cheap. Actually it was one of the few places I found that had it listed for back order at the time.

So when is Mitsubishi going to be shipping these in full force? I ordered one November 1 and it is still back ordered. I was hoping to have it before Thanksgiving but that is doubtful.

I don't know who you ordered from, but I'm getting mine this afternoon. Guess it all depends on the vendor.

So, I got it, plugged it in, didn't touch anything and four words pretty much describe my feelings, "It's a F#$king keeper!" I'll provide further words as soon as I get acquainted.

Initials:

-Out of the box it's excellent considering all of the things you hear about on certain other projectors discussed here. The whites are crushed a bit on scenes with white next to black (cop cars). Only what I noticed so far. I'm sure you can cure it.

-Colors were noticeably good. Turned on BC and they were really, really good (My girl said the color was "nice")

-Saw barely noticeable (you had to look for it) pixelation

-Blacks - It's getting close to CRT...

-Compared to my Diamond it looks a bit digital. That's not really a bad thing though. I kind of like it.

-The menu is simple yet provides you with all the "tweaking" stuff you need.

Again, this is out of the box.

Setup:

About 84"

Behr Silverscreen

Dark purple walls

Lights off



(My last projector was an AE100, but I do have a Mitsu Diamond 65 if that counts for anything)

HC3000 Impressions – Part I

Screen: Carada, high-contrast gray, 67 inches wide (84 diagonal 4:3 screen).

DVD player: Denon 2200, component 480p output.

Current projector: ceiling-mounted Mitsubishi XD300 DLP. It’s a 4:3 native XGA unit with stated 2000:1 contrast ratio, and the manual states its noise level is 30 dB. I’ve spent countless hours calibrating and tweaking the XD300.

New projector: coffee table-mounted HC3000. I spent only about 20 minutes calibrating it (so the comparison is necessarily biased in favor of the XD300). I increased brightness from 0 to +16 to avoid the blacks from being crushed (gray screen?), and lowered contrast from 0 to –2 to eliminate white crush. Set gamma to Cinema and changed color from 0 to +2. Lowered lamp mode to Low and left the lens iris in its Open position.

1) Noise. The HC3000 is VERY quiet. It’s an order of magnitude quieter than the XD3000. I can only hear it when there is no sound whatsoever coming from my speakers and I explicitly pay attention to the noise. Otherwise, it’s completely inaudible. The XD300 is like a small jet engine above my head.

2) Image detail. The picture on the HC3000 is considerably sharper. This is not surprising because it uses 720 lines of resolution. The XD300 uses only 500+ lines in a 16:9 mode; the rest is blacked out.

3) Image brightness. The HC3000 is very bright despite my gray screen. Again, I think it’s because it essentially uses most of the light output, while the XD300 blacks out a big portion of the DLP panel in a 16:9 mode.

4) Black level. The HC3000 has slightly better blacks. I expected more of a difference to be honest. Maybe it’s because the XD300 has been tweak beyond recognition and I’ll have to do the same to the HC3000.

5) Tweakability. No comparison. The HC3000 has many more options to tweak. As many people mentioned here before, you can store three different configuration per input in memory and it’s easy to switch between them. This makes it very easy to compare the effects of the changes in the various parameters.

6) Brilliant Color. I absolutely hate it. The feature increases the brightness of the image without affecting the black level, causes a bit of white crush, and makes colors less saturated. IMO, it completely destroys the “film-like” look of movies. It’s great if you want to have a bright picture that, however, has nothing to do with the original work. I found the movie Hero to be very revealing of the shortcomings of Brilliant Color. The fight scene between Flying Snow and Moon has saturated red dresses, deep black hair, gold colored fall leaves on the trees, and slightly blue sky. Turning Brilliant Color on caused the red to become less saturated, the leaves became yellow, and the sky became white. Totally unacceptable by my standards. It’s possible that the PJ needs to be calibrated for Brilliant Color ON (which I haven’t done). I’m just staying away from it for now.

I’ll post more impressions as I continue tweaking the HC3000.

A question for current HC3000 owners: do you use the HDMI input? What DVD player do you use? I’m thinking of getting the Oppo and feeding the HC3000 with 720p signal. Do you think I am gaining anything over the Denon’s 480p component out or just wasting $$?

Thanks,

Ales

There's a subjective comparison of the newest crop of 720P machines, including the HC3000 over at Projector Central. (http://www.projectorcentral.com/720p_projectors.htm)

Well, guess I better pop the bad news sooner than later! I think I need to take back the BUY IT comment!

Yesterday tried a few DC wide adaptors but couldn't find any good match. I think the offset projection make the additional lens hard to get good focus and unformity.

Also tried playing with R/G/B adjust but still couldn't get the Red to look correct after 30mins of flipping.

Since the three older Mits projectors (D1208, HC2000, HC900) all have good color, I thought this one can be tune up too. Or maybe just the one I tried has problem?

Anyway, guess I will pass, again. Just look out for the color rendition when you buy the projector.

regards,

Li On

afilipi,

I also have the XD300 and was really hoping that the HC3000 would have much better black than the 300; per your review, that is not the case... very disappointing.

When I first got the XD300 I was concerned that with just the black image on the screen, you could do a great hand show, because of all the light. I understand it now, but am continuing to hope that new technology will lower (significantly) the black level.

Is the 3000 much brighter than the 300? The 300 is "rated" at twice the lumen output of the 3000, perhaps that is only in 4x3 business mode.

How do the colors compare?

Thank you.

For those of you that just got a HC3000 and are disapointed about the Brilliant Color out of the box because of the white crush: OOTB the contrast is set too high.

The BC option is basically a gamma change so play with the user gamma settings and see how it looks. Use the user1 user2 user 3 modes to change one variable.

Then turn BC on or off and you can see the difference.

We have been able to get fantastic colors and deep blacks with no white crush with the BC option on, and the entire picture shows brightness without the whites crushing.

Jim,

The HC 3000 has better blacks than the XD300. Just don't expect TOO much improvement. You can still do a "hand show" when the HC3000 is projecting a black image. Having read the raving feedback on avsforum, my problem was that I was expecting way too much. Also, I have not spent much time calibrating the HC3000. I'm sure once I play with the settings for a few hours, the blacks will be even better. I'll ask kosty what settings to play with.

Brightness: the XD300 is very bright in its 4:3 "business" mode. However, this mode is totally unusable for movies as you know. Setting the XD300's gamma to Cinema lowers the brightness quite a bit, and projecting a 16:9 image lowers the brightness even further because you don't use 1/3 of the mirrors.

Color: HC3000 wins hands down. The colors on the XD300 look washed out compared to the HC3000. Of course, I never perceived it until I fired up the HC3000 last nigth. The improved sharpness and colors were the first two things that I noticed (as well as the HC3000 much lower fan noise).

Ales

Kosty,

Could you post your settings so I can have a good starting point? And could you explain it like you were explaining it to a 5 year old?

Thanks,
Rob

Well I been asked to not share yet the demo unit settings because we are still adjusting, but here's a start.

Best solution spend $300 for an ISF calibration. ;)

OR:

Start with Cinema Mode and 5900K as per the cine4home.de review

Turn BrilliantColor On

Set the black level using THX optimizer or (DVE or some other test disk) Ballpark the contrast the same way.

The attached chart may help you keep track of the settings.

Find a good test scene with bright colors and black with shadows.

Set the color levels. On the german review (see attached chart) they saw too little red. So if you are using a white screen try their settings or try some other comparably spaced settings.

Use the User 1 and User 2 and User 3 settings to be the same except for one variable. For example is you are adjusting a color value, set one at level 0, one at level 4 one at level eight. Say you like one of the extreme value( example 8) , set it at 4 then 8 then 12. If you like something between 8 and 12 set the values to 8 10 12 and then zero in.

When you like it, publish your findings here so we can compare. :D

Looks like Evan preferrs the Z4. It makes me wonder. Maybe I'll buy both and send back the one I don't like. I sure dont want to make a mistake with this purchase.

This is my first real HT PJ. Placement is not an issue. I wonder If I can create the same offset with the Z4.. I would preferr a large offset with my 9 1/2 foot ceiling. I haven't decided if I want to shoot-out the PJs yet. I'll sleep on it.

Well, guess I better pop the bad news sooner than later! I think I need to take back the BUY IT comment!

Yesterday tried a few DC wide adaptors but couldn't find any good match. I think the offset projection make the additional lens hard to get good focus and unformity.

Also tried playing with R/G/B adjust but still couldn't get the Red to look correct after 30mins of flipping.

Since the three older Mits projectors (D1208, HC2000, HC900) all have good color, I thought this one can be tune up too. Or maybe just the one I tried has problem?

Anyway, guess I will pass, again. Just look out for the color rendition when you buy the projector.

regards,

Li On

Anyone knows of any hired killers up in Hong Kong that accept payment via credit card or Paypal :D. There is one HC3000 coming my way based on your original recommendation!...

Joking aside I hope your comment has more to do with the frustration of not being able to get a lens for your room size than the red color being way off. I am not nearly as picky as you and I hope the color rendition doesn't turns out to be a big dissapointment.

Evan clearly states that if you like to sit close, like deeper blacks and more contrast, and all the good things you like about DLP the HC3000 is great. But it's optimized for ceiling mounting.

If you want it a bit cheaper with more setup options and you don't mind the softer picture and lack of tweaking capability try the AE900. It's optimized for bookshelf mounting and easy setup

If you like to sit way back and don't see visible pixels at your viewing distance try the Sanyo.

I'm afraid the sanyo and the panny just don't give me the image I want. And I find much more quality issues discussed and found on the LCD's.

I wanted that $7500-10,000 MSRP DLP image and the HC3000 is the first thing ever to give me that image in a price I was willing to pay. It's very good OTB for most people and is easy to tweak.

BTW, There is a lot of flexibility to gain red, keep on trying you guys before you give up,,,,,,

rcrymes,
do it and let us know which you like.

I've seen the z3 and panny 700 and from user opinions on this forum, there isn't much improvement with the new models. I just can't see either beating the 3000 in a side by side based on picture quality comparisons. Installation flexibility, sure, but not picture quality.
I think Evan's preferences are pretty apparent in his reviews.

I copied cine4home's settings a week or so ago and finally just quit messing with it and have enjoyed watching.

Anyone knows of any hired killers up in Hong Kong that accept payment via credit card or Paypal :D. There is one HC3000 coming my way based on your original recommendation!...

Please send the money to me if that make you feel better! :D

As said, CKL bought one. Let's hope his own unit will be better or even better that it can be tuned up.

regards,

Li On

anyone tried it with the Xbox 360 yet? Impressions on what Ridge Racer and PGR3 look like please! :D

Remember the cine4home.de final review is expected any day now. They only posted a prelim (but even so detailed and long) review on a pre-production unit. They didn't explore BrilliantColor or user gamma changes.

And they usually follow with a detailed tweak posting on PJ's they like, and they have already said they like the HC3000.

All of us may have some more tweaking info soon! :)

I copied cine4home's settings a week or so ago and finally just quit messing with it and have enjoyed watching.The nerve of you ;)

What looks good to you? :)

I increased brightness from 0 to +16 to avoid the blacks from being crushed (gray screen?).

4) Black level. The HC3000 has slightly better blacks. I expected more of a difference to be honest. Maybe it’s because the XD300 has been tweak beyond recognition and I’ll have to do the same to the HC3000.

Ales

I just have to comment on this because I had the same problem with crushed blacks as you did. At first I also tried to pump up the brightness but it did not seem to work. Then I found a menu option named "SETUP" from the FEATURE menu. This had to be set to "OFF" position. Any other option will crush the blacks and make brightness controll almost unuseable.

From the HC3000 manual
SET UP AUTO Select AUTO for normal use. When LANGUAGE is not set to and 460i or
TV60 signal is inputted, the SET UP changes to 7.5% automatically.
OFF Select to make black lighter.
3.75%/7.5% Select to make black intense.
• When 7.5% is chosen, the brightness is decreased by set-up cancel function
for U.S. Choose OFF when the image is dark.Yep, I think you can set this to off to tweak the black level shadow detail. ;) I'm not sure if you hace to do it if BC is on.

Gizm thanks for the post. Anything else to add?

As one of the 1st people in the UK with the HC3000 my story goes like this:

To cut a long story short (well not that short actually), I returned my HC3000 yesterday after just a week because again this wasn't the right projector for my eyes.

Positives on the HC3000:

Fantastic PQ. The best under the 2K Mark. (3K$ Mark) Very little screendoor. Deep blacks and very well resolved shadow detail. Brilliant Color worked very well giving a lot of extra sparkle and saturation to the colours. Although on some material I preferred it switched off.

Negatives on the HC3000:

Inflexibility of installation. Really only suited to ceiling mounting. Maximum picture zoom low. You really need a bit of distance to get a big picture out of this PJ.

Rainbow Effect - This will not be an issue for some people. But this is the main reason why I've sent this PJ packing. My initial reactions to the RBE on this projector were.. this is bad but I put it down to the fact that I had been ill in the days before I picked it up, had got little sleep and had driven for a few hours on the day I picked it up. I therefore remained non-committal and believed it to be no worse or better than my current DLP projector, expecting the situation to significantly improve after a good nights sleep.

Well... the RBE didn't improve and made contrasty movies like Batman Begins unwatchable. I then started to consider measures that could perhaps help to reduce the RBE like, ND2 filters, lower gain screens e.t.c. It was at this point I also noticed a dead DLP mirror and several smaller DMD imperfections.

The smaller imperfections were not an issue but the dead mirror was. Once noticed, I couldn't help but look for it in bright scenes. It was easy to see and far easier to notice that a stuck LCD pixel. I then made the decision to get shot of my 2nd projector in 2 weeks.. (I returned a Z4 the previous week because the absolute black level was very poor. Blacks were way off. Worse than my old Optoma H30!!)

Perhaps with a few set-up changes, ND2 filter, lower gain screen the RBE would reduce to an acceptable level.. but who knows it may not, and I'm left with a PJ I can't watch with 100 hrs on the bulb. I don't think the retailer would be too happy to take that back.

4000:1 Contrast with a 4 speed 6 segment colour wheel. Why oh... why didn't Mitsubishi improve this area of the PJ design!!!!!

Overall

If your eyes can bear it the HC3000 throws a sublime picture. I really didn't want to return it but with the RBE and the dead mirror it wasn't a PJ I could live with. The Z4 for me was a much easier watch but the black level to me was awful.

Oh... well back to the drawing board. :( I'm really at a loss now and really gutted having to return the HC3000 because the PQ was outstanding at this price level. The black level of LCD just doesn't cut it for me but maybe I'll just have to take that route and live with the inferior black level.


(Note: Before anyone asks why didn't you demo the HC3000 before you bought it, well I did. I spent 2 hours with it comparing it against the Z4 on a 110 inch greyhawk screen. I saw 3 rainbows in all that time. The combination of a large grey screen and a small amount of ambient light made for a demo room very sympathetic to the RBE. It just goes to show that unless a demo room and screen is an exact match of what you have at home you really can't trust it)

Zags,

That's unfortunate. I always thought I was very prone to RBE. I used to see rainbows all the time and get headaches from watching dlps. I guess it's very installation and settings dependent as I just don't see them with the 3000 in my room. I've noticed it a couple times but it's much less than the BenQ 7700 and Infocus 4805 I had before it.

What are your room conditions and screen you were using? Might help give an idea to others looking at this projector as to what conditions support RBE.

My room is light controlled, walls and ceiling are dark colored, screen is a 1.3 gain.

This DLP projector is certainly the first on my list. The only thing that worries me about it is its large vertical offset. My home theater is in a basement and my ceiling is 93 inches high.

Could please HC3000 owners tell me how far from the ceiling is it possible to get the picture? My screen is 16:9 (106 inches diag.) and I plan to hang the PJ as close to the ceiling as possible. According to Mitsubishi's guide, the PJ's offset would be 17,5 inches, plus half the projector's height equals an image 20 inches from the ceiling. The bottom of my picture would be at 21 inches from the ground.
Using the PJ's extra horizontal scan lines, I believe I can make this 23 inches.

The problem is I want the screen to be about 29 inches from the floor, 6 inches higher...and I don't want to use keystone. Has anyone tilted the PJ? I know the image becomes trapezoidal, but to what extent? is is easily visible?

Please current HC3000 owners, tell me I can get the picture higher on the wall...about 12 to 14 inches from the ceiling would be great. How did you do that? and dit it change the picture's quality or shape???


Thanks everyone for your time!

Is there any reason why both the ae700 and the ae900 would report PAL 2:2 cadence from an upscaling DVD player (oppo OPDV971H) as 750/60p rather than 750/50p as you would expect?

I get this on both the picture menu and the service check menu. The DVD player is definitely set up to output PAL and 2:2 cadence is supported. I'm upscaling to 720p using DVI to HDMI. I get the same at all the other resolutions too: 540p and 1080i both display as 60Hz, rather than the 50 I would expect. When not upscaled (576p) the pj doesn't display a Hz figure.

Thanks,

Dave

Is there any reason why both the ae700 and the ae900 would report PAL 2:2 cadence from an upscaling DVD player (oppo OPDV971H) as 750/60p rather than 750/50p as you would expect?

I get this on both the picture menu and the service check menu. The DVD player is definitely set up to output PAL and 2:2 cadence is supported. I'm upscaling to 720p using DVI to HDMI. I get the same at all the other resolutions too: 540p and 1080i both display as 60Hz, rather than the 50 I would expect. When not upscaled (576p) the pj doesn't display a Hz figure.

Thanks,

Dave
I think you may have clicked on the wrong thread. You'll probably get better reaction on this one.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586260

This DLP projector is certainly the first on my list. The only thing that worries me about it is its large vertical offset. My home theater is in a basement and my ceiling is 93 inches high.

Could please HC3000 owners tell me how far from the ceiling is it possible to get the picture? My screen is 16:9 (106 inches diag.) and I plan to hang the PJ as close to the ceiling as possible. According to Mitsubishi's guide, the PJ's offset would be 17,5 inches, plus half the projector's height equals an image 20 inches from the ceiling. The bottom of my picture would be at 21 inches from the ground.
Using the PJ's extra horizontal scan lines, I believe I can make this 23 inches.

The problem is I want the screen to be about 29 inches from the floor, 6 inches higher...and I don't want to use keystone. Has anyone tilted the PJ? I know the image becomes trapezoidal, but to what extent? is is easily visible?

Please current HC3000 owners, tell me I can get the picture higher on the wall...about 12 to 14 inches from the ceiling would be great. How did you do that? and dit it change the picture's quality or shape???

Thanks everyone for your time!


Hmmm, your measurements seem a bit off.

93"-20"=73 subracting the usual height for a 16:9 106" screen (including the border): 73-56=17" to the ground...

Conversely 93"-56" leaves 37" to work within...

My room is slightly shorter at 90" so the problem with my 106" screen is even more acute, without fancy tilts the screen would end up 14" above the floor. Right now at 24" above the floor it seems about right, lower would not be my preference.

This may be be the first limiting factor for this PJ at my house.

What was the general rule of thumb, the viewer should be looking straight ahead at the horizontal center of the screen?

Zags,

What are your room conditions and screen you were using? Might help give an idea to others looking at this projector as to what conditions support RBE.

My room is light controlled, walls and ceiling are dark colored, screen is a 1.3 gain.

Brian

For reference I use a 80 inch Carada BW screen. Gain of 1.4. I sit at approx 12ft away, 1.9 screen widths in a dark cave (Grey carpet and ceiling, dark red walls) totally light controlled.

With my Optoma H30 I experience rainbows but not frequently enough to want to buy an LCD projector. With the HC3000 with the lamp on low and the iris closed I was seeing rainbows almost constantly.

I believe the increase in rainbows was caused by the extra brightness and contrast of the HC3000. An ND2 filter or lower gain screen may of helped and it was the route I had decided to take. I then noticed a dead mirror which just tipped the balance. I turned the PJ off, packed it up and returned it to the retailer.

Zags

What was the general rule of thumb, the viewer should be looking straight ahead at the horizontal center of the screen?


I have also heard staring straight ahead your line of sight should be 1/3 from the bottom as opposed to half. I don't think it would matter for movie enjoyment, but perhaps optimizing the screen's gain may play a role.

Greg

Hmmm, your measurements seem a bit off.

93"-20"=73 subracting the usual height for a 16:9 106" screen (including the border): 73-56=17" to the ground...

Conversely 93"-56" leaves 37" to work within...

My room is slightly shorter at 90" so the problem with my 106" screen is even more acute, without fancy tilts the screen would end up 14" above the floor. Right now at 24" above the floor it seems about right, lower would not be my preference.

This may be be the first limiting factor for this PJ at my house.

What was the general rule of thumb, the viewer should be looking straight ahead at the horizontal center of the screen?



Sorry if my measurements were off...the numbers I was quoting were for the visible screen itself, excluding the boder (thus a 52 inches high screen... 93" - 52" leaves 41" if the offset is 20" visible screen is 21" above ground). How do you end up with a sceen 24 inches above the floor (with the HC 3000) if your room is only 90 inches high? Did you tilt the screen? did you use keystone?

Anyone knows of any hired killers up in Hong Kong that accept payment via credit card or Paypal :D.

http://www.dvdcollectorshaven.ca/Uploads/Covers/76531_killercri.jpg

Accept no substitutes. :D

I have to scratch the HC3000 from my list because I'm hypersensitive to rainbows. 4x CW won't cut it.

Please send the money to me if that make you feel better! :D

As said, CKL bought one. Let's hope his own unit will be better or even better that it can be tuned up.

regards,

Li On

Yes, I will send you the money. Here are the instructions:

Take 50 mg Hydrogen Cyanide gas or 200-300 mg Cyanide salts
on an empty stomach.


http://www.dvdcollectorshaven.ca/Uploads/Covers/76531_killercri.jpg

Accept no substitutes. :D



Grubert, sounds good but might be a little bit over my budget... I was thinking maybe CKL will help me out if he can't get those reds to look just right ...

:D :D :D :D

Here is my comment. Mitsubishi use to produce good red in their previous products. It is hard to describ red from HC3000. It is not orange-red nor purple-red. I can say it is not fresh and saturated enough. More accurate description is the red being dull. At HDMI input, HC3000 can't adjust the color or tint. I've checked the level of color and tint with AVIA. It shows both settings are correct. But after I add certain amount of Color at Crystalio. The red is improved. I don't change the default Hue because it can't help after I move it up and down.

Please be reminded that Red coordinates at CIE is close to the NTSC standard and flesh tone is still balance. After I watch more than 10 DVDs, I think the overall color rendering is acceptable. I will try CC20R filter with HC3000 tomorrow to see if the red can be improved further. It seems that HC3000 is so bright that has a room for tweaking with filter.

After all, I won't reject HC3000. It still has the strength to let me keep it. I've reported the situation to Mitsubishi and hope their engineer to improve the red by upgrade the firmware.

CKL,

If you are in touch with the Mitsubishi engineer, it might be a good thing to suggest them that they include a color wheel speed option menu (like that of the BenQ PE7700, which toggles 4x/5x). Thanks.

Here is my comment. Mitsubishi use to produce good red in their previous products. It is hard to describ red from HC3000. It is not orange-red nor purple-red. I can say it is not fresh and saturated enough. More accurate description is the red being dull.

Is this with BrilliantColor turned on or off?

The new HC3000 review from cine4home.de is up.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsuHC3000/Final/HC3000Test.htm

Argh It is only Part 1, with other parts to follow in the next few days :( They do rave about its solid construction and glass optics and they do open it to see the circuit boards optical path and soundproofing. :)

No observations on the image.

How can I read this in English?

Thanks!

How can I read this in English?

Thanks!

go to http://babelfish.altavista.com/ , then enter the website you want translated and choose German to English from the pull down menu.

Sorry if my measurements were off...the numbers I was quoting were for the visible screen itself, excluding the boder (thus a 52 inches high screen... 93" - 52" leaves 41" if the offset is 20" visible screen is 21" above ground). How do you end up with a sceen 24 inches above the floor (with the HC 3000) if your room is only 90 inches high? Did you tilt the screen? did you use keystone?

Sorry to confuse you Stef, I don't have the HC3000, and won't likely buy one due to the mounting problems you are discovering. Tilting the screen or using the keystone correction is not on my list of adjustments when placing a projector.

I'm either in for a H78DC3 or waiting for the H81! :D

Is this with BrilliantColor turned on or off?

BC won't affect the color. It just provides a bit punchier. I leave the BC be ON.